meeting is now called to order. Roll call. Mr. Shapiro. >> All board members are present. >> Thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of Americ schools will provide opportunities for
All students to realize their potential in an everchanging world. And up next, we have a public comment. And we do have seven people from our group one signed up for public comment this evening. Um and that group one is people who are students, parents,
guardians, employees, and Carmel residents. Madame President, with your permission, I'd like to make a motion as it relates to our standard rules for public comment. Um, I listened with interest and agreement last week to the
commentary about um the provision or our rules that says a patron shall not be named during public comments. Since this evening's meeting is solely about candidates um for our empty board seat, I would move that we would suspend that
rule and allow anyone who wishes to make a public comment that names their their support or opposition with you know uh dignity and you know appropriate professionalism um is is welcome to do
so. So that's my motion. >> Thank you Miss Wheeler. So the motion is to um for this specific meeting to suspend uh the the portion and I will go ahead and read that port that part where we um typically say comments may not reference specific corporation employees, patrons or students and for
this evening your motion is to suspend the patrons portion. Um do I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Any discussion? >> All in agreement. >> Yep. I think it's a really great idea specifically for this. All right. So um all in favor again for the motion is
this evening we are suspending the portion um that says uh specifically says patrons may not be referenced. Um all in favor signify by saying I >> I I motion carries. Thank you for that. I I will make sure I
modify that when I read the rules. Um as we do with all public comment sessions, I'm just going to kind of read the rules beforehand before we get started. Um part participants must be recognized that by the presiding officer and then must preface their comments by giving their name. Typically what we'll do is
we will have our bingo ball selection and you'll be put in order. I will say who is up and who is on deck so that person on deck can be ready to speak next. Um speakers may not yield their time to another speaker. And here's the portion that we have amended for this
evening. Comments may not reference specific specific corporation employees or students. Comments shall be directed to the board. No person may address or question individual board members. The school board will not act on or respond to questions or comments made during
public comment but will take them under advisement. So all the numbers have been placed in the basket and rand randomly selected. >> They have and number one is up and number two is on deck. Okay.
>> That's too Yeah. Um All right. >> Okay. So, first person up is Lindsay Omar and on deck is Jeff Callahan. And as a reminder, you will have three minutes and you will be able to see your time um hopefully on the screen and then
also you will give be given a warning with the little lights um that are there on the podium. The the light will give you a warning when you have 30 seconds left. So, up first we have Lindsay Omar. >> Yeah, we have to be able to hear you so
that so that when we record this microphone makes me very uncomfortable. I hope you all can hear me. Um, my name is Lindsay and I just wanted to take a minute to introduce myself. Um, I have lived in Carmel my entire life. Basically, I went to Caramel schools. I
was an active student and I married into a family of CCS employees, one of whom is the current longest employee of CCS, unless somebody trumped him, but that would be weird. Um, I am the mother of two Prairie Trace students and I am also very active in our school community. I
have been on our PTO for the last 5 years and I have been the co-president for the last two years. Um, I knew that I always wanted to raise my kids in Carmel schools and I never wanted to live anywhere else. I also am a realtor and what I see so frequently in my job
is that people move here for the schools. They either change houses and need to stay in the district, they come from neighboring communities or they come from afar to be in our caramel schools. Um, with all of that said, I do want to talk about my friend Jennifer
Cashion, who is one of the candidates for the open position. Um, when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to say tonight, I really had to think back about how I met her. And truthfully, I have no idea. Um, we are both very active in the school community and the
local community. We have so many mutual friends because of that. And neither one of us actually remember how we met, but if there's a school event, we are both probably there. If there's a community event, we are probably there. Um, anytime there's something going on, I she's just always around. Um, she has
spent so much of her time dedicated to our schools and 28 minutes. >> You have about one minute left. >> That was very confusing. Uh, one of the things that I wanted to talk to about Jennifer is not only does she just
volunteer and do what she is asked to do, she is always working on how she can make things better and improve what we already have. Um, one of my favorite ways that she has done that is by working with a couple of other of her friends in creating Greyhound Council, which combines all 15 of our schools
PTO's so that they can strategize, they can share vendors, they can um, talk about problems and solutions instead of all of us creating our own reinventing the wheel every time we do something and we can work together and figure out what is good and what we can improve on. and um she was a really huge person that
implemented that and is still actively involved in keeping us all organized and on track when we are doing that. Um >> you're good. 30 seconds. You're good. >> Uh one of the things that I really like about our caramel community is how many
ways our parents can be involved in our schools. um there are more opportunities than you could even imagine and she has proven by participating in so many of those that she is willing to do the work. Um and I just am really impressed
with her and I think that she would be a fantastic candidate. >> Thank you so much. Up next is Jeff Callahan in on deck number four. >> On deck is Amy Bloom.
Good evening and thank you for your time. Hopefully I won't uh blast everybody with my voice microphone. Um my name is Jeff Callahan. I'm a Caramel High School graduate, class of 95. And about eight years ago, my wife and I moved back to Carmel with our two kids,
one currently at Creekide and the other at Clay Center. I'm here tonight to speak from firsthand experience about Jennifer Cashion's diligence, passion, and most importantly, her ability to turn ideas into action for the CCS. I
serve as a board member at large for Carmel Youth Lacrosse and have coached with the Carmel Dads Club at the AU and tenu levels for the past two years. Through that work, I've seen Jennifer show up consistently as an advocate and a volunteer for our young athletes.
She attends board meetings, contributes thoughtful ideas, and brings genuine enthusiasm for the sport. You can see it at every practice and every game. And isn't isn't just performative involvement. It's real.
What sets her apart is simple. When she hears about a challenge, she does just doesn't nod. She acts. A concern gets raised and you can almost see the switch flip. She asks the right questions. She connects the right people. And most
importantly, she follows through. A great example was when we she helped us initiate a meeting with the Carmel Athletics Department and Dr. O. We raised concerns about facility access and she played a key role in presenting
a clear organized request, improving access to the upper fields, securing additional equipment storage, and addressing lingering issues like broken scoreboards. On a personal note, my wife is internally eternally grateful that our
garage is no longer the unofficial storage facility for Carmel Youth Cross. I see that same diligence and commitment to in her work supporting the district through PTO involvement and through the CEF. My wife has served alongside her for the
past four years. And during that time, she and others have been recruited by by Jennifer enthusiastically to the CE scholarship committee, Taste of Caramel, and much more. From where I sit, actually stand, I see
someone who runs her own consulting business, shows up for her kids many activities, volunteers hands-on in our schools, and still asks, "What else can I do? Where else is there a need? How can I
get more people involved?" To some, there is no candidate more engaged, more passionate, or in our district or more committed to making things better. Not just words, but through action. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Up next is Amy Bloom. And on deck number seven, >> on deck is Moren Morgan. >> Good evening, President Coke. Board members, administrators, and community members. Thank you for your continued dedication to our schools. I sound like
Dr. O tonight, don't I? Um, I'm Amy Bloom and I speak tonight as a 25-y year Carmel resident, a parent of a student in the schools for the past 13 years, and a committed advocate for our students and teachers. I want to share my perspective on the vote to fill the
vacant board seat. Both both last week's meeting and tonight's discussion highlight the importance of this decision. After attending last week's meeting and re-watching the interviews online, it's clear to me that you have an opportunity to select a highly qualified, hardworking, and collaborative member to join this team.
For the past four years, I've had the privilege of working with Jennifer Cashion. As a CE board member, I've seen firsthand how CF fosters opportunity, supports educators, connects our community, and invests in our students.
Jennifer Cashion has worked closely with us in a number of different areas and I've seen how deeply her her commitment is to each of these efforts. Jennifer consistently gives her time generously even with having three young children in the schools. She helps resolve concerns,
brings forward thoughtful ideas, and always has the best interest of our students, teachers, and parents in mind. Her talents have strengthened CEF in countless ways. Organizing the Ghost and Goblins run, managing and promoting our silent auction, designing decor for the
Taste of Carmel event, evaluating hundreds of CF scholarships, and helping to coordinate logistics and flow of the senior scholarship night. Every role she brings experience and attention to detail and a determined positive spirit. Understanding the complexities of our
district, the funding, legislation, community dynamics can take years. You have the chance to appoint someone who is already deeply engaged, knowledgeable, and fully committed to this role. She is ready to serve with both strength and grace. Last week, all three candidates seemed kind and seemed
very caring about our students and our community. But only Jennifer Cashion has shown her knowledge, experience, and action to be a board member. I respectfully urge you to vote for Jennifer Cashion as the new CEF board member. Tonight should be the easiest
vote you have ever taken. Thank you. >> Thank you. Up next is Moren Morgan and on deck >> number six. >> On deck is Ally Mistler. >> Hello, my name is Moren Morgan and I just want to outline two things that I
think are important to be said at tonight's meeting. Number one, there is a significant conflict of interest with candidate Jennifer Cashion. Support CCS spent thousands of dollars on the Shapiro and Wheeler campaign. So if if
board members Wheeler and Shapiro would vote for her tonight, it would appear they're beholden to the pack and we really want to keep politics out of the school board. Second, Carmel needs a divorce divor, excuse me, a diverse school board and
not one that's handpicked by a powerful pack. That's all I want to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Up next is Alli Mistler and on deck >> number three. >> On deck is Amber Davis.
>> Good evening, board members and members of the community. My name is Ally Mistler and I am the mother of two Carmel graduates and have two grandsons about to enter the school system. I attended last week's meeting and I watched all three candidates interviews
in their entirety. I want to thank the board and all of the candidates for the care and transparency they brought to this process. After listening closely to each response, I would like to express my strong support for Jennifer Cashion, who stood out to me as the most clearly
prepared and ready to step into this role immediately. From the beginning of the interview, it would it was evident that Jennifer had done the work. She did not offer surface level or generic answers. Instead, she gave thoughtful, comprehensive responses that
demonstrated a deep understanding of the district, the role of the board, and the responsibilities that come with it. What particularly impressed me was that her answers went beyond vision. She spoke about specific initiatives and tied them directly to specific levels of funding,
showing that she understands not only what we want to do, but how those decisions connect to real budget decisions. those priorities, I'm sorry, connect to real budget decisions. That level of readiness does not happen by accident. It is rooted in her experience leading Support CCS, a nonpartisan
organization focused on strengthening Carmel's public schools, and supporting qualified schoolboard candidates. Through that work, Jennifer has spent years listening to families, engaging with educators, and learning how effective governance works in practice.
That experience is foundational to her preparation and it uniquely positions her to step in and contribute immediately. She will not have a learning curve. Instead, she will bring a track record. Throughout the interview, Jennifer consistently
emphasized the importance of listening, collaborating, and thoughtful decision-making. She acknowledges the strengths of our district while also recognizing the need for ongoing community engagement and careful stewardship. Her responses reflected not just knowledge but
judgment, the kind that comes from sustained involvement and careful study. And I want to address directly address the question that was just raised about potential conflicts of interest related to the organization she led. Support CCS was intentionally established as a
nonpartisan or organization and Jennifer has taken clear and deliberate steps to step away from any leadership role to avoid even the appearance of a conflict. Transparency matters and she has demonstrated that she understands and respects that responsibility.
It is also important to note that when she runs for a fully elected term later this year, she will be required to apply for support CCS's endorsement just like any other candidate. That requirement reinforces her commitment to fairness, independence, and appropriate
governance. Among all three candidates, Jennifer's interview demonstrated a level of preparation, clarity, and readiness that distinguished her. Thank you. >> Thank you. Up next is Amber Davis. And then on deck
is Jill Lombardo. Good evening. My name is Amber Davis and I am the parent of two children at Carmel Clay Schools. Um, I'm here tonight to offer my strong support uh for the appointment of Jennifer Cashion to the vacant school board seat in
District 2. I have known Jennifer since 2022 when we first met while volunteering with support CCS, a nonpartisan political action committee uh dedicated to supporting this district. And since that time, she has risen to serve as chair of the
organization, a role that reflects her leadership, integrity, and commitment to public education. Jennifer is not only an advocate for our schools, but also an engaged parent. She has three children who have been part of Carmel Clay Schools for six years and
has been actively involved in Greyhound Council, PTO, and multiple committees with the Carmel Education Foundation. Jennifer is kind, caring, generous, dedicated, and extremely professional.
She brings both firsthand experience and a proven record of service. I believe she's exceptionally wellqualified for this role and would be an asset to the board and to the entire Carmel Clay community. Thank you for your time and thoughtful consideration.
>> Thank you. Up next is Jill Lombardo. Good evening. My name is Jill Lombardo. I am the parent of two children in the Caramel Clay Schools and an active PTO member. I attended the school board candidate interviews last week and I appreciated the opportunity to hear from
all three candidates. Each demonstrated a genuine passion for the Carmel Clay School Districts and a willingness to serve our communities, which was really great. I would like to share my thoughts regarding the importance of filling this position. Because this appointment is being made late in the term with a
limited time remaining, it is essential that the individual selected is prepared to serve effectively from day one. That readiness includes a strong understanding of the current and complex issues facing our district, such as SEA one legislation, the safety referendum
on this year's ballot, and the impact of universal school vouchers on our schools and budget. A clear awareness of these issues and their potential financial and educational impacts is critical for making informed decisions that prioritize students, educators, and
schools. While all of the candidates expressed care for our children, only Jennifer Cashion demonstrated a deep and thorough understanding of these issues, including how they would affect district funding, operations, and longterm stability.
It is also important for a board member to understand how the school board functions. Regular attendance at schoolboard meetings builds familiarity with board procedures and ongoing district priorities. Jennifer Cashion was the only candidate interviewed that indicated consistent
attendance at schoolboard meetings. Additionally, Jennifer Cashion was able to reference prior experience with working with their schools through organizations such as PTO's, the Greyhound Council, and the Carmel Education Foundation.
These experiences provide valuable insight into how to effectively communicate, collaborate, and advocate with a a large and diverse school district such as ours. They also offer perspective on the unique strengths and challenges across our schools.
Jennifer Cashion stood out as having a strong knowledge base of current district issues, consistent engagement at schoolboard meetings, and a proven history of working alongside community and school organizations to support our schools. I believe Jennifer is the best
positioned to make an informed and thoughtful decisions that will benefit our students, teachers, staff, and schools immediately upon appointment. Thank you for your time and the opportunity to share my perspective.
>> Thank you. Thank you to everyone who came out for public comment and everyone who always comes out. The board always appreciates hearing um from the community. Up next, we are going to begin the board discussion um regarding the District 2
school board member selection. Uh, I wanted to preface that by just saying thank you on behalf of the entire board for all nine people who applied. Put yourselves out there um and put your put your time out there to complete the application and send us and then
especially the three candidates who came last week and really put yourself out there to be uh interviewed in a public setting live streamed. Um, the community needs more people like you and we really appreciate that. I hope you I hope you truly understand. We had amazing
candidates um and those you are the kind of people that our community needs more of ready to serve. So thank you so much. So we are going to begin our board discussion. Typically what I like to do is just start at the end and work this way. So I will go ahead and um start
with Miss Wheeler. >> Thank you, Madam President. After hearing the public comment and knowing that in particular Mr. Brown wanted some additional time to think um for our meeting today. I I would appreciate it if you or someone else would go first,
Mr. Brown. I'd appreciate it so I can hear what your thoughts are. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um we're going to go around twice, right, to cycle through. >> Yeah. Typically, Robert's rules is at least the board member gets a chance to to kind of have their discussion piece
without people interrupting or or interjecting and then we can go back once everyone's had a turn, we'll go back through. Yep. Absolutely. >> Yep. >> Okay. But we will get a chance to kind of retort or reply to things we may have heard. >> Yes. >> Okay. I just want to clarify that. Um, I
just wanted to say that, yeah, I'm going to underline that we had nine candidates uh apply for this position and it's it's remarkable that uh we live in a community that is is so the schools are so important and we just had excellent candidates, all nine of them and I just
wanted to underline that. Um, so I'm going to try to make it simple. I'm going to look at express my thoughts from one of qualifications and uh and I'm going to make a second point but the first one I wanted to talk about qualifications of the three
candidates that we had um firstly when when I looked at the nine candidates I'm I was looking for some kind of quick way to downsize so I looked at tenure in Carmel I thought it was very important that we had people that that lived here a long time if we had such applicants
which we did. We had five applicants that had been here 11 years or more. So, I thought that was a pretty important uh thing to look for. So, um and one of them did that made the final three. So, with that said, what the what the
majority selected to downsize from the nine to the three, we had one that had lived in Caramel 20 years and lived in lives in Indiana has lived in Indiana for 52 years. We had one candidate that lived here for five years in the district uh with nine years total in
Indiana and one that had lived in Carmel District 2 for two one year and lived in Indiana for 25. So that was our final three candidates to pick from and based on that criteria I considered two with
the most years that was Jennifer Cashion and Michael Riffett. And uh but I also did want to say that our third candidate was was amazing too. Uh I'm not going to go and talk much more about her, but uh I was quite impressed with her. I think we all were, otherwise she wouldn't have
been on our list. Uh but just to kind of focus down on the three. So um one thing I also wanted to look at was do they have children or grandchildren u in the Caramel schools now or going in soon? I just kind of want to see where that was. Well, Mrs. Cashin has three biological
children um in elementary school. Okay. U Mr. Refett also has three biological children. Uh but uh he also has uh seven adopted children. So after they had
their three children, they went out and adopted seven children uh that were in dire situations. Three were from Haiti and four were domestic children that were from troubled situations.
A very diverse family. Uh and um they gave those seven children a second chance or a chance to live, a ch a chance for uh hope and a chance to to uh to thrive. Uh and I I applaud them for
that. It's an amazing thing that they have done. Uh sadly they did lose one um and u nothing worse can be an experience for a parent other than to lose a child. Uh but since then as I understand it two have graduated and seven are currently
in the schools right now. Um and they've been involved in Carmel schools for 20 years. I mean in other words their kids have been in schools continuously for 20 years. That's an amazing uh statistic. Uh there's probably no one else that has
come close to that. Uh and interestingly enough, he actually attended Woodbrook. I don't know for how many years, but he went to one of our first elementary schools. Um and looking at his 10 children, seven of
which he adopted, there was a significant diverse background uh including racially, culturally, and experientially. um his and her their her kids have experienced the gifted programs, the special education uh programs, the
they've had IEPs, they've had 504s, and they've had trauma-informed support. So, they really understand um what Carmel has been able to do for their kids and what are important for our diverse uh um set of uh situations
in the city. Um, Michael uniquely brings a personal understanding of how school policies and governance issues affect real students and real families. Um, looking at his professional background,
absolutely amazing. Uh, impressive. Um, and it really and both of them actually. Uh, Jennifer too. Um, Miss Cashion, she's got 18 years of professional marketing experience if I read your resume right and heard you
right. Uh, Mr. Refett has got 30 years a senior level global enterprise experiences including being a CFO, a president, a chief business officer. He's been on multiple boards. He's managed teams responsible for finances, human
resources, legal professionals, and the background that he can bring to the board would really help us navigate budget cuts that we have to deal with the next couple months and how to pri prioritize our resources or scarce
resources. He's deals with that. He made some comments during the interview that I thought were very appropriate that he's approached uh in his job particularly as a CFO of how do you deal with a limited amount of resources and departments that have uh lots of
justification for spending or needing b excuse me budget and he's been able to sort through that from the most objective weight for the the corporation and I could see we could really benefit from that um looking at their uh impress has impressive educational backgrounds
and Mr. Cashion's got a couple bachelor degrees and an MBA. Uh Mr. Refett similar has a bachelor degree and an MBA and is now working on his PhD in leadership. Um from a qualification perspective, I find
Mr. Refett to be the top candidate for the reasons I've outlined. Uh they're both excellent. All three are excellent, but those two stood out. I find Mr. ref it to be uh from a qualification perspective uh a clear choice for for all those reasons I just mentioned. Um
my second point is this is uh is conflict of interest. Uh I'm very concerned about this. Um I find a significant concern with bringing Mrs. Cash on from an appointment perspective to the board. She's been the chairperson of support
CCS. support CCS is a political action committee formed in Carmel. Uh its stated purpose is to support schoolboard candidates for the Carmel Clay Schools. As she informed us, they have a a board, some board of people that pick the
candidates. They interview the candidates and put them forth. So, um I'm not comfortable with that. U particularly if if there was more competition in Carmel, uh I may not be so concerned about it. Um they organized uh in late 2021 as I understand it.
They've been actively involved in the last two schoolboard elections providing funding, significant funding, providing organization, able to rally people and and come to action. Uh and this last election they spent 97 almost $97,000
from what I can see looking at the records for two of our school board members in the last election. And this is a material benefit and I have a real problem with that. Um it's it's one thing to uh be elected by the community.
It's another thing to be appointed by schoolboard members that have received material significant material benefit to uh then turn around and appoint. So I have a that's where I stand. Those are my two major issues. One is qualifications. I think uh Mr. Refett is
uh clearly the most qualified candidate and I find Miss Castion to be very qualified, no doubt. Uh but I I have a major issue from a conflict of interest and I'll
I'll leave it at that this time. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Shapiro. Uh thank you, President Koke. Uh at the risk of sounding a little redundant, um made some notes. So, uh I too would like
to express my gratitude for the nine folks who uh applied to fill the vacancy for the district 2 seat. I agree that it says a lot about how much our community values and cares about our schools that we had that number of people uh willing
to step up and serve out the remainder of Miss Nelson Williams term. Um, we spent a good deal of time as a board reviewing those applications. Uh, I think, uh, my fellow board members would agree we had a little bit of a challenge reaching consensus on which individuals
to ultimately bring forward for public interviews, which also speaks to the caliber of folks who applied. Um, I would like to uh extend my thanks to Jennifer Cashion and Jessica Mave Semon and Mike Rafett for coming in for
interviews. um that requires a level of courage that I don't think most people understand um to come in and interview in public. So, thank you for doing that. Uh as people may know, we as a board do not always agree with each other on
things and we shouldn't. That is part of the work that we're tasked to do, to review the work in front of us, to discuss it, to debate it, and to decide what's in the best interest of our community, our students, our teachers and staff, and our families, and
ultimately to find consensus and make the choice that is in the the best interest of all of those folks. We represent the community, and that means we represent a variety of perspectives on the issues. School districts are complex and our
primary roles as schoolboard members are to supervise the superintendent, provide budgetary oversight, adopt and oversee policy, monitor student achievement, and represent the community. It may sound simple, but it's not.
I came to this board with a background in nonprofit management and education with significant board experience in other organizations and I can say there was a learning curve in this specific situation where we're tasked with selecting a fellow board
member to join us midterm. I think there are several factors that bear consideration. It takes some time to be onboarded and to learn the ins and outs of this role and it's to the community's benefit that this period of time is as short as possible. That means that we should be
selecting the candidate who we believe has the understanding and experience to hit the ground running and already has some depth of understanding of what they're getting themselves into. In my opinion, that means experiences such as involvement in the school system and the Carmel community, experience as
a board member, demonstrated understanding of the school system, among other things, are vitally important. Additionally, it's equally important that the person selected is willing to challenge the status quo, be critical, and ask the difficult questions. Our
role as board members requires us to do this. Yes, the caramel schools are excellent and it may seem at times that things are just humming along. However, CCS can always improve. We need a thought partner who will
challenge us and the administration to continue to be better than we are today. It became clear to me after reviewing the applications, the interviews, and reviewing my notes that there was one person uh that best fit what I think is needed to fill the seat on the school
board. In my opinion, Miss Cashin stands out among the candidates having the most experience understanding the nuances of the school district, its stakeholders, and the functions of the board. She'd require the least amount of time for
onboarding as she already understands, excuse me, she already has knowledge of many of the aspects of how this board works and of the school district as a whole. I feel compelled to uh at least address the comment about material benefits
and I understand and I talked about this with Mr. Brown uh during some earlier conversation uh and I think there's some validity to uh the issue of of perception of conflict of interest. I do.
However, I would say that I think there's a difference between perception um and it'd be different if Mrs. Cashion directly uh gave material benefit to me
as a candidate and that did not occur. A political action committee provided benefit to me and another candidate. that is not the same as an individual providing direct material benefit or a member of this community doing so.
In addition, um there was another political action committee in this community of which a current board member was also significantly involved in and used their finances to help fund other candidates
that were not elected to this board. But I think that could be perceived as a potential conflict. That being said, I didn't establish a pack. I had to apply for endorsement. All of the candidates who chose to run in last
cycle's election were invited to apply for that. Miss Kashin was not on the committee that endorsed those candidates. The other candidates were invited and they chose not to apply. I completed the application process. I was fortunate to
receive that endorsement. That's all I really want to say about that. Uh my role as a board member, our role as board members is to be objective and act on behalf of the community. And I have don't doubt that for the past year I've done my best to do that. And I
am going to continue to do my best to do that. I believe that any person that viewed the interviews with objectivity can clearly see that Miss Cashion is the best prepared to assume the role at this time. >> Thank you. Miss Wheeler, would you like
to go next? >> Thank you. First of all, as many of you know, I'm a lawyer. So, I think like a lawyer and I talk like a lawyer. One of the first things that I did was look at what Indiana's law says about conflicts of interest in public officials. And
everyone on this dis that's an elected board member is a a public official. What Indiana law says, which is 354413, if anybody wants to look it up, is that a public servant who knowingly or intentionally has a pecuniary interest,
which is lawyer word for financial interest, or deres a profit from or contract or purchase connected with an action by the governmental energy entity served by the public servant. In other words, if I as a board member
received a benefit from a contract, for example, that the school board approved that I voted for, that is a conflict of interest. And how a conflict of interest, if one exists, is solved in Indiana pursuant to
354413C is you file a disclosure you shine some light on that. I don't believe there's any conflict of interest here. And I want to be very very clear that I made clear both to Miss Cashion,
to Mr. Brown and my fellow board members that I was completely open to choosing the best candidate. I personally told Miss Cashion there there's no fix here. I'm going to pick who I think is best
for our school district. I said that weeks ago and I'll say it again tonight. The implication that there's some kind of quidd proquo or inappropriate conduct here is incredibly offensive to me. I
think anyone that knows me and knows my reputation knows I don't fool around with that kind of stuff because frankly it would get me disbarred. I wouldn't just lose the public trust. So I want to be super clear that that did not occur.
I do understand however the optics and the law also addresses optics or what lawyers call the appearance of impropriy. And what the law says with regard to that that both in Indiana and federally
is one of the solutions if a conflict of interest or an appearance of impropriy exists is what potential candidates for elective office can do is called resign to run. What resign to run is is they
declare themselves to be a candidate and they resign the position which could have the appearance of impropriety. Miss Cashion explained during her interview that that is exactly
what she plans to do. she addressed it and rather than accepting that she addressed it, we're continuing to churn this conflict of interest narrative that is untrue. And if you think for a moment
about what our rights are as Americans to participate in politics, in elections, we have the right to knock on doors. We have the right to political speech. We have the
right to donate to those which we support. How could that ever prohibit any of us from ever running for office in the future simply because we have participated as Americans in the
political process. In fact, our Federal Seventh Circuit, which covers Indiana, has said if folks like this want to run for office, they may participate in campaigns for
candidates that they favor and they are free to do so. It is a constitutional issue. That case is Clawson v. Mike Pence if anybody wants to look it up. With regard to that,
I think that perception is important and we may have disagreements about what is and isn't appropriate for a school board member to do. As Mr. Shapiro noted, we have a board member and Mr. Brown
that gave more than $12,000 of his own money to the pack that ran against Mr. Shapiro and I. He knocked on doors. He appeared in videos. He made public statements. He provided interviews to reporters.
That is absolutely his right to do and I respect it. But he's up here as an elected official. He has the right to be here. I don't agree with what he did, but it doesn't give me any basis to tell any of you he can't be here.
I will also say that I disagree with him using this position in the past to comment support for the academy that was suing the district at the time to try to get one of our
elementary schools for a dollar. I thought that was inappropriate. I also thought it was is inappropriate, continues to be inappropriate for one of our schoolboard members to knock on doors in our community and recruit parents and students to participate in
the Lifewise program that takes students out of Caramel Clay Schools and takes them to Bible study. Uh I'm a Christian, believe in training my children up religiously. think using school time and resources to do that is
not appropriate, but we disagree and that's okay. I respect that. But if we're going to talk about what's a conflict of interest and what perceptions are, then let's talk about the real conflict and the real perceptions.
I don't want to go too far. We certainly can have differences of opinion. I have a hard time understanding, as Mr. Shapiro said, how anybody
could look at our candidates and not think that Ms. Cashion is the best. With all due respect to all the others, I haven't heard anyone have any points
that show that anyone that knows more about our schools, the laws that affect our schools, our budgets, and I also agree strongly that having somebody that can be up and running on day one is important.
I will also share with you that Miss Cashion and I have had serious disagreements in the past. Both political big P and political small P. We're not always going to agree. It would be wrong to assume that because
we're friends that we're always going to agree. And I think it's important that we show our students and be role models for our students about how to have respectful discourse, how to
come from different perspectives without insulting each other, without spreading misinformation and lies. I also think
that with an election in just nine months, I'll I'll be proven right. And those that think that the public should choose, the public will choose in November. I think
they'll choose Jennifer Cash, and I sure hope they do. So, I'm comfortable with that decision. This is the way the law is set up. This is a decision for this board to make and I'm comfortable making it. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll be brief. I wanted to first just um clarify something. Um just to clarify uh talking about the timeline of how long the candidates or the applicants had lived in Carmel. We didn't have access to the data,
remember, of how long they lived in Carmel. It was just in their district. Um, the application also included how long they've lived in Indiana, right? >> But not in Carmel in general. >> Not in No, not in Caramel District 2. I
mean, it asked how long have they been living in district 2, Caramel. How long have they lived in Indiana? >> Right. And I'm saying it didn't ask how long they lived in Carmel. And I'm saying that because as a um, >> right, >> I currently reside in district three um, and was elected in district three.
However, I lived in district two for probably over 10 years. Um, and so if you look at my if I were to fill out that application, and I just wanted to clarify this, it would look like I'd only lived in Caramel in my district for six years, but I have lived in Carmel
much longer. Anyways, just want to clarify that point. We were only given access. And I think that that was a board issue in the in the future. Should we need to do this again, we will clarify how long have you lived in Indiana, how long in Carmel, and how long in your district. But I just wanted to clarify that. Um, some of the candidates may very well have lived in
the entirety of Carmel for longer. Um, I wanted to go through what I was looking for. Um, and again, this is just my opinion because as a board is how we act, not as me or any of us individually. So, a board decision is a board decision when the majority of the board decides on something. Um, what I
was looking for for someone um is someone who is not going to be a placeholder or a filler um for Miss Nelson Williams for just this this 10, you know, 9 10 11month period. Um because as the the four of us sitting
here know, it's it is a big learning curve. Mr. Shapiro said that I'm in year have three down in year four and I still am learning things. It there's a lot to learn. So, I feel like if our community expects us and wants us to be able to
make the best decisions that we need somebody who is who is kind of ready to go um who is not going to just serve as a placeholder for a couple months and then be done. That was again my qualification. Um I was looking for someone who does volunteer, who has kids in the school, um and and someone who
had experience on other boards potentially. So, kind of understood how different boards run. Um, so those again, those were kind of kind of what I was looking for specifically. Um, I did also want to clarify a little bit of information um
while we're just clarifying some things. U support CCS. Um, I was part of the group of parents, the group of us who who decided to form that group. um the the the word political action committee gets a bad name because
when when this school um and any if if you know schools that have already started referendum type talk and we what what do they do as a means of paying for the phone calls and the texts and the yard signs you form a political action committee. So it does kind of get a
little bit of a bad name really just a group of parents who wanted to make sure we supported um our schools. Um and I and I genuinely know that as having been in the room. Um, we were given guidance by a longtime group like that called the Washington Township Parent Council. They have a longtime history of supporting
their schools, their teachers, their students, and their community and really hearing from the community and making sure everyone feels heard. That's what we were trying to model ourselves after. Just wanted to um to to put that out there that um I think we need to look at
things from a lens of um not just what we perceive, but also kind of look a little bit deeper. um because I am vocal about um having been part of that group. Uh so I we have all had a chance to speak kind of on our thoughts on where
we are. Um and if you would like me to we can just go in the same order or go down the line with any further comments. >> I'd suggest we go down the line since I went first. >> Okay, sounds great. Miss Wheeler, if you have anything, Miss Wheeler. If not,
then >> just I just want to clarify stepping away. My son's car broke down. Needed to take the call. It was nothing personal. I apologize. >> Family first. Family first for sure. Um,
I think in closing, the one thing I want to say is, um, I think it's a fallacy to pretend that if those that ran in opposition to Mr. Shapiro and I were sitting up here instead of us that that we'd not be
talking about candidates who aligned with those people because those are the people making the decisions. Um let's be real. Um, and if you can't do that, somebody sure ought to tell the president, the governor, and the mayor,
because that's what people do, whether it's for jobs or political appointments or other things. You work with people, you know, you work with people you trust. You work with people whose
spirit and intention aligns with yours. So, let's not pretend. Let's be real about how this would work if the coin was flipped. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Brown.
>> Yeah, let me address some of the things that have been said here. Um, certainly I will uh say that uh it is important John mentioned this that we don't always agree. That would makes for a healthy and vibrant board and we hear different perspectives. we might not already hear.
Uh, and I think we collectively will make a smarter decision. So, I I wanted to thank you for that. But I've got some I've got some real points, real concerns with some things that I I heard today I wanted to address as well. I I heard that it takes time for uh a person to
come up to speed on the board. So, we want to get someone that's going to hit the ground running. Well, to my to the point I made earlier as far as qualifications, Mr. Refett has got 20 years experience in Caramel schools with
uh he's had seven kids, nine kids go through uh I think two have graduated. Some of my numbers might be wrong, but they had 10 kids involved with Caramel schools for 20 years and as I mentioned incredibly diverse. He's been uh they've
been parents of uh children from different racial backgrounds, uh cultural background. I met all those points. I mean, if that's not prepared and qualified, I I just don't know what what I mean, knowing about some, you know, how the PTO's are working and those things come pretty quick and easy.
Uh, we don't deal with that up here, those kinds of issues. But I think Mr. Ruffett is is incredibly qualified in that regard. Uh, as far as a comment John made about Carmel Excellence, yeah, I was involved in trying to get a pack going. Uh, it
failed miserably. It hardly got any money. I put a lot of money in there and uh because I feel passionate about this school by I we moved to Caramel. I think somebody said that most parents probably have moved to Caramel because of the schools. Well, we did that 33 years ago
and our son went through Forestdale from kindergarten. He went to Clay Middle, went to Caramel High School. 13 years in our schools. I love our schools. I love the community. That's why I decided to be on the board. I've got grandchildren. And I want to make sure that uh we continue in the greatness that we've
got. But um to to bring up the fact that we had a pack, we had a pack and it didn't really fund the candidates. I think if you asked our two candidates, that was something they're very concerned with. They basically got almost I'm not going to say zero, but they got very little benefit from the
pack. It it didn't work well. Um and they went off and did did much of their own fundraising. These two candidates collectively were funded $97,000 in their campaigns and that that packed campaign was solely for the benefit getting these two on. The other two
candidates, Jennifer Nelson Williams that just stepped down, Kristen as well were also supported and screened by support CCS. It has become a single party in Caramel, the only way you can get on the school board. So, four of the
last five school board members have been uh endorsed uh and advertised materially supported by support CCS. We've had the administration out there. The and I want to say something about Dr. Tom Astra because I want to make sure it's clearly
I'm not talking about him. Uh he was very clear about not getting involved in the election. He felt it was not proper because this school board provides governance and oversight of the administration. So, if we start having the chief administrator, uh, the
superintendent who was actively polling with Jennifer at one of our churches for support CCS candidates because that's his boss and these are the ones he wants. We've seen administr other administrators provide financial support to the pack and we're supposed to be
providing oversight to this administration. And so if we're starting to have board members on here that are provide that are working with the administration to pick candidates that Carmel can vote for and they have an overwhelming hearse. I just don't see how anybody could ever get on the board unless they've come through the support
CCS pack and they pick it. So we we've had a single party system. I keep hearing this nonpartisan thing. I I don't see it. I I see they've created a party, but in addition to that, they've hired and spent a lot of money with a campaign management team. that's sole
reason uh to exist is to um hire Democrat candidates. That says it that's the first thing it says on their website and u I don't know why they picked it but I'm just wanted to bring that to the attention. Um as Chris was talking about she doesn't
see a conflict of interest. um the um uh let's see um she made it she made the point that I was elected by a pack. Well, there was no pack when I ran. It was just me and some friends and uh we skirted about uh
we did pretty good. We almost we almost had a split ticket and that's the way it should be. We should have a lively discussion out there. Um but I was elected. We're talking about an appointment here. And if we've got board members, three board members that have
been uh materially supported by a pack, a political action committee appointing the chairperson of that pack. Whether you you you feel beholden to them or not isn't necessarily a thing, but it certainly could undermine public trust
to the board's impartiality. uh especially if uh if we have a a part that's engaged with democratically aligned uh uh resources. Uh let's see. In many states, ethic rules or codes
emphasize avoiding even the appearance of conflicts and public officials are encouraged to recuse themselves uh in these gray area situations. So, I think that uh I know Jennifer fairly well. We spent some time together. Uh I
agree. I've heard everything people say she's qualified. I'd love to see her run again, but I don't think she should be appointed at this point. I think she should run and let the committee select her. I think we it just looks too uh too much like we've got uh a political
action committee taken over. Uh, one one more comment I think I want to make here is that uh, Kristen made a comment about uh, hiring someone that it's only a year program on hirements ready to go. Uh, I made a comment about the qualifications
of Mr. Refett. U, they're unbelievable. But uh I want to also point out that I um a year ago January I had been on the board two years I have attended 19 training programs with over 25 individual classes on schoolboard
things. So I'm ready to go. I mean I was ready to go a year ago to have significant uh um responsibilities on the board and I was passed over again. So I wasn't we elected these two or this one here to who I have a lot of respect for these
people only disregard that uh to be an officer. I was skipped over for that. Um I asked to be the policy leazison. Um I was skipped over. We put a brand new board member in charge of that. So I have I since I'm not associated with support CCS, it seems like me being a
non-support CCS person gets skipped over for things. So, we've had our board taken over by a pack that is financially uh supported by the administration to to a degree uh of direct reports to the superintendent. And I I we need to watch
what's happening here in Carmel because you will have no chance if you have people like Michael Reffford come to stand up tall 10 kids uh 20 years in the schools and he can't get appointed by the board, we've got a real problem here. And uh
I'll leave it at that. Enough said. >> Mr. Shapiro. >> Thank you, President. Okay. Um, preface my uh comments here with again great respect for the folks who
interviewed and I I really hope that nothing that I am saying is uh being heard as a critique or criticism of our candidates because that's not at all how it is intended.
I think there is a distinct difference between having students in our schools and understanding how our schools work. Um, and whether you have a child,
three children, 10 children, whether that's over the course of a couple of years, five years, 10 years. Um, I I think there's great validity in the experience that Mr. Refett has
had with the children that he has in the school system. In fact, that's something we spoke about um when we made the decision to bring him in for interview. Um I think that experience was one of the things I found attractive. Um
and I think there's a distinction between having those experiences and understanding operationally how the system and the district operates, which is part of the reason were tasked
with sitting up here because what I heard when we were interviewing candidates was one candidate that clearly understood operationally things like school funding, school
budgets, which are not the same as nonprofit or for-profit organization budgets because I've got plenty experience in nonprofit budgeting and school finance is not at all the same thing. Someone who spoke quite knowledgeably
about referendums and with the greatest of respect to the other two candidates, they care deeply about safety and we all care about safety as parents, but candidly they didn't seem to quite
grasp what the question was asking. Again, I'll reiterate my point about the perception around the pack. I will also say I think it speaks volumes that this community, the last two
elections, has made very sound decisions about the candidates they have chosen to put onto this school board. Whether or not there's a pack in this community or not, the the community voted Yes, the pack spent a bunch of money.
What was that money spent on? Advertising. Flyers. The pack made no financial contribution to my campaign. I had my own campaign treasurer and I had my own campaign manager. So, could they have bought less ads in
the current? Sure. But the community pretty soundly has made decisions about what candidates they wanted to elect. So I think that says more about the quality of the candidates than it says about the pack. Again, if we want to go down a
conspiracy rabbit hole, we can have that conversation, but I don't think that is to the benefit of our time tonight or the community's time tonight. I think we need to talk about the quality of the three folks we have to discuss. Um,
and that's all I really need to say right now. >> I think tonight is a good example of the board not always agreeing on things. Um, and I think we could talk about this for another hour and I do not believe um, with some of the talking points we have
um, that we are um, going to come to an agreement on some of the things that we've discussed. Um, I would, um, encourage the community for any of the entities that we've discussed this evening if you were wanting to look at websites or such to to do that research
yourself. Um, uh, ask questions at any of the websites or any of the either political action committees or or or candidates or anyone else. Just look yourself. And and I trust the community to do that because that's that's why part of why we're here. Uh, I love this
community. Um, and I know that we are we are placed here um, entrusted by the community to make the best decisions. Um, so I think I I can't see that any further discussion is going to get us anywhere um, besides perhaps some more
discord. So um, I think we can move on um to the action item portion of this evening. Um so the action item portion is where um someone can make a motion um to vote and
select um and we will have that vote to select the appointment for the district 2 school board seat. Um, do I have a motion for a uh specific one of the three uh applicants to fill the open district
school board seat district 2? >> Madame President, I move to appoint Jennifer Cashion to the open school board seat for district two. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion? Any further discussion?
Again, this is not the previous discussion. This is a discussion regarding the motion um to appoint the um district to schoolboard seat and have the appointee be Jennifer Cashion. Any discussion?
Okay, seeing none, we will take a vote. All those in favor of approving the motion and that motion is to appoint Jennifer Cashion to fill the open district 2 school board seat. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I.
>> Any opposed. Thank you. Motion carries 3 to one. At this time, I would like a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> Move to adjourn. >> Thank you. May I have a second? Second.
Meeting adjourned.