Check. Check. Yeah. I'm gonna start with that. Welcome everybody to this, our regular monthly meeting of the Charlottesville Board of Edge Architectural Review. Staff will introduce each item followed by the applicant's presentation, which should not exceed ten minutes. Chair will then ask for questions from the public followed by questions from the BAR. After questions are closed, the chair will ask for comments from the public. For each application, members of public are each allowed three minutes to ask questions and three minutes to offer comments. Speaker shall identify themselves, and comments should be limited to the bar's purview, that is,
regarding only the exterior aspects of a project. Following the BAR's, discussion and prior to taking action, the applicant will have up to three minutes to respond. Alrighty. Are there any matters from the public not under items c through e on the agenda? Item c through e are negligent because they're all in a any matters from the public not on the agenda tonight? Okay. Online? Yeah. Yeah. Online? We have three items on our consent agenda. 320 West Main, Padel Court, 410 2nd Street, entry overhangs and site alterations, and 408
Park Street, removal of exterior stairs and side entrance. There's been a little bit of talk about. I'd like to pull 410 2nd Street off consent for a quick discussion. Does anybody wanna pull anything else on the consent agenda? Okay. So we'll just reduce the consent agenda. Do I need to vote to pull that off or and just do it. Right? Yeah. To discuss it? Okay. It's it will and then then I would just make clear that, with the adoption of the consent agenda, then the the recommendations the recommended approval motions in each of
the staff reports would then become part of the record. So that we're clear on that. Okay. That makes sense. So the just to clarify on 03/20, the recommended approval is that the light poles and lamping meet city code, per chapter 34 division four point twelve point three. And that if any change in location, height, or specifications of those light posts or LED light panels be necessary, the applicant will submit an amendment with the alternative lighting plan for BAR review if warranted by staff. And then I think that 408 Park Street is approved as submitted.
Any comments or questions on that consent agenda? Do you need a motion? I I would like a motion. Move to approve the consent agenda. Second. Alright. Should I modify my motion just to say that it's, consists of our agenda items b one and three? Thank you. Alright. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Consent is just passes on those two items, and therefore, we do not have any deferred items. And our first new item is what I pull from consent for 10 2nd Street
Northeast. I don't know if staff was ready for a full staff report, but or I can just go straight to the couple questions I wanted to talk about. Oh, first off, make sure on and any on online Is the applicant here? Just curious. Okay. Great. And so, but I'll I'm very just very briefly. This is a house in the North Downtown, ADC District. Constructed late 1800s and you've reviewed several things on this.
Most recently, in addition, the rear was approved by the BAR a couple of years ago. They've come back here primarily landscaping and some hardscaping that they're proposing and, some, privacy fence at the rear, some awning canopies over, entrances in the the opening that or I mean, in the addition that was completed. And I I mentioned earlier to me too, this they've been doing a lot of, rehab on the entire exterior of the work.
It really it's just a fantastic, job. So I get to publicly applaud the owner and the contractor and the designer is really this house just looks fantastic there at the top of 2nd Street. So, there had been, as I mentioned in the earlier meeting, we've some discussion about the garage on the side and renovations to it and alterations to it. But we're gonna, I'm gonna set that aside to a later meeting. So this is focusing entirely on the hardscaping landscaping.
And like I said, there's two overhangs on the rear. We, the fence at the back, we did have some questions. Folks asked about, you know, what's the height fence on the backyard? Our ordinance for this zoning district doesn't limit the height in a rear yard. It does on the side. If it's along a street or in the front yard, your guidelines do recommend a max of six feet, height for a privacy fence, in a rear yard. But you have on several occasions approved, taller, particularly when it's in the rear.
And and this is across the back of the property is adjacent to a higher zoning, or more intensively zoned parcels. So there's nothing, I think that's an appropriate, approval of a seven foot tall fence. And, otherwise, the landscaping, repairing some of the walls that are there. A lot of people have looked at this, asked me about the cat on the, the infamous, cat. I don't I don't know how the cat will play into this, but, I think the cat may have passed.
Right? Yes. But unfortunately, he's gone on to cat heaven. Yeah. Cat heaven. So that, so I can say here on channel ten, no. The cat is not part of this. But, and so I think otherwise, there's nothing in this that staff felt was, at issue, and that's why we had our consent, but certainly, you all can discuss it if you wish. Like I said, honor the architect and any better seen the landscape architect are both available for any questions. Any questions for me? Okay.
Do we have any questions from the public? Does any are they do they wanna talk and speak? Oh, yeah. I guess, does the applicant wanna present? Sorry. Anna and Annie, you can unmute yourselves and go ahead and and join us. Can y'all hear us? Maybe. Okay. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. We can. Oh, okay. Eric, can you hear me now? Yes.
Excellent. Okay. Great. Thank you all for joining us. Did did you wanna give any sort of overview? This this is Annie Matata. I'm the architect with Bluebird Design Company. I think that my, portion of this application is really pretty minimal with the I could have overhangs on the rear elevation. So I will let Anna take some questions here Yeah. If that works for you. Yeah. Fine. Good evening, everyone. This is Anna Beshenstein, the landscape architect. It's a, obviously, really tight site. The owners wanted to maximize their ability to use use enjoy their yard as much
as possible. The the one of the owners grew up in this house and, she and her mother and her husband have now lived there. And so she has fond memories of spending a lot of time in the front yard, using the rear yard, and they just wanted to be able to do that again for the next generation. We are planning on keeping we are planning on keeping the the stone wall on 2nd Street intact, and then just changing, the cheap walls to either side of the
entry stair so that we can replace, the concrete entry stair with Bluestone and any Bluestone walk. The, the walkway will be dry laid to preserve that large oak tree in the front yard. And then the owners were interested in having a deck in the front yard, which sits flush on grade with the Bluestone, the perpendicular Bluestone walk, and acts as, a front terrace for them to, greet neighbors hang out because their front porch is rather
narrow, and they find that it's not as usable as they would like. Then to the side, really just circulation and the ability to be able to get from front to backyard, staying on their property and not having to go through the driveway easement. Oh, I should also mention there's a wrought iron fence, detail on the back of your pocket, 36 inches high in the front yard that then transitions to a privacy fence, which I believe you all already touched on, in the rear yard, which will
be stained. I included the color options in the packet, but it's one of the two darker colors, already on the architectural renovation. To the rear, mortared bluestone, paving, and then planting beds around those existing landings, that are off part of the ocean. And, built in grill, and then a a blue stone pad and raised planters. The blue pad is to receive a water feature, that the owner will be providing
themselves. It's not in it, but I'm happy to answer any questions. Alrighty. Thank you very much. Oh, well, I have a question. Yep. The summary that we received said that the front yard would be enclosed by a three foot wrought iron fence. Yes. So the front I'm just gonna make sure I read it correctly. If you go to sheet l two point zero zero, it's a runner fence Could you and then I'm having difficulty hearing you. I'm sorry. It's just a little muffled. If you could wherever your speaker is, if you could talk directly into it.
It may be just me, but Is this better? A little bit. A little bit. Sorry. I'm on top of the speaker. I'll get I'll talk as loudly as I can. Okay. If you'll go to L 2 in your copy of Yeah. There Yep. Yep. Okay. My my question my question was just about the look Go ahead. Sure. My question was about the location of the fence because the the textual application said it would be in it would enclose the front yard, but the, L 0 l
point one point zero zero seems to show that it will not enclose the hole, but this is rod iron fence right there. Rod iron gate. Maybe not. So the rod iron fence meets the privacy fence. Got it. Yeah. So the transition point is just before the bay window of the addition to the south. That's a different I I was looking at the front, and James Zemer just pointed out to me that I was looking at the wrong the wrong let me let
me just ask. The wrought iron gate, is that just across the steps, and what is the rest of the hatched black line that joins l. Sorry. I'm having a hard time going between my drawings and the speaker, but, I believe I'm gonna have to go back to my drawings and zoom in manually on my screen. But I believe the the wrought iron gate returns on the house on the north
corner front north corner. I guess we're maybe a question to ask is there's a dashed line on the plan. In the front. In the front. In under the house. I believe that's a setback. That's a setback. Okay. Got it. You. And the wrought iron gate is just there at the top of the first set of stairs just for pry for Yeah. Privacy or You go go go to the, materials plan site plan. Yep. Up. Sorry. Sorry. No. That yeah. This site plan with materials. There we go.
Yeah. There. Yep. Okay. So do you see on the northwest corner of the front porch, there's a note that says Bluestone Stoppers, and there is a gate. It's a little bit hard to read, admittedly, because it's on top of the Stoppers, but the wrought iron gate is right there. Yeah. Yep. See that? Yeah. The I was actually referring to the one on the front on the what would be Front steps. Front steps. Which Oh, front step. West side. So that is a camp yeah. I see. That is a gate to match.
It's just that the wrought iron fence company doesn't make that size standard. And so we have to custom make that those two panels to match in order for it to work on that path. And what how is that gate grounded? Is it is it ground is it in the ground and pivots from a Yeah. For it meets there's two posts in the ground. Okay. Currently or that there's will be installed? Not currently. No. That'll be installed. Yeah. I just I've never seen that closed.
Okay. And James Zimmer answered my other question, which is that the rod that three foot rod iron fence is on the periphery of the front yard. So and I was mistaken about the the setback line. Thank you. Awesome. Did you have your question Yeah. I do. I guess my question was essentially, what's the purpose of removing the dogwood? That was that we could not get enough seating space for the family in that front yard without moving the tree, which meant taking out the dogwood and replacing it
with a similar tree. Could you put the photo up that we saw in the premeeting showing that dogwood? Or I don't know. Is there a plan that shows the existing conditions? I mean I didn't see that. I didn't see I didn't see any plan to remove that. It just it's not in the planting Yeah. Old version. There's a demo plan. Yeah. If you go to 0.02, that is the demo plan and the trees on that. Two on the other side. This is dogwood. But it doesn't say down it doesn't say demo. Right? Seven seven inch dog caliber dogwood for removal.
Is everything's everything's coated in red. Everything that's being demoed is a bit of a red dash. Got it. It's just a light red. Yeah. I can see it. So It's not a big could you spend that around a little bit, Kate? Yeah. It's not a very big tree, and it's right on the property line, or at least it's on the sorry. It's near the retaining wall. I mean, look that he's it it's, like, six inches off that retaining wall of that. It's more, it's more the north south orientation than the East west.
Yeah. Go ahead. And, what materials the decking you're proposing for the front yard? We are we're looking at either a cedar or an e pay. And, actually, if you all go to the, to our submission packet, existing conditions photos Yeah. The the first page center top photo has that dogwood in it. Yeah. It's just a little bit further off the property line of the address. I don't know. It just seems like it's not that that much different from location wise of where
the proposed dogwood's going. Or the redwood. Sorry. Or redwood. Sorry. Yeah. And then for the decking, were you guys gonna put that on deck plugs? It sounded like you're putting it straight on grade to be adjacent to the Bluestone Walkway. We're raising the grade on that side only a little bit by a few inches. Mhmm. Looks like the grade is settled over there. But, yes, for the most part, it's sitting on grade, to the east and then, it's about seven inches upgrade as you get to the West side, the 7th Street
side. Okay. Does the grading, of the front deck impacts the dogwood? The grading that you need to do for the deck. Sorry. I'm actually pulling up the grading file right now to double check that for you all. I don't think so, but let me confirm that. Thanks. I mean, part of the reason we're asking these is our guide. You know, lean towards not removing a tree if it's not necessary. So that's kinda where some of these questions are coming from. But, I mean, in general, I think your landscape plan is very nice. So we're I'm not not gonna try and get too hung up on.
Well, it seems like you're you're not replacing it with a smaller specie. You're replacing it with something that's larger. So I don't understand justification for the removal. I mean, it you'd clearly show a canopy on the redbud at some point in its map Yeah. Matured state that's much larger than the dogwood is right now, and the dogwood can't be any further, you know, to the south on this property. My my opinion is that, you know, a a red bud tree is a fairly fast growing. Mhmm.
It's gonna mature pretty quickly, probably in five years or so. Correct me if I'm if I'm wrong, Anna. But, and I think there's something nice about occupying the occupying the front yard or creating space for the family. So I think I don't have a problem with removing the dogwood, personally. Yeah. I wouldn't gonna fall on my sword for it. I just kinda wanted to ask the question. Also mentioned that we are looking for a landscape architect, a member of the Board of Architectural Review. So if you have any interest in joining our happy bands, you'd be welcome. Wow.
I don't know. Are you gonna give me this dogwood? It's not a negotiation. Oh, I know. Excuse me. Okay. So I wanted before I before I said something that I was not confident in, I wanted to go back and measure. The, dogwood is actually three feet in further than where we're placing the red redbud. And believe it or not, that three feet really made a difference in the occupiable space. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Alright. That answered my questions. Yeah, I've we kinda got a little ahead of ourselves.
Are there any questions from the public? No. No. Okay. We asked some questions from the AR. Any more questions from VAR? Alright. Any comments from the public? Alright. Any comments from the VAR? We kinda delved into that too. Yeah. Like I said, I just wanted to pull this from consent to essentially just ask about that. I agree with miss Tabany. The benefits of, having an occupy more occupiable space in the front yard kinda outweighs, and the red butt will be nice. And you're right. It it's best grower, so it will provide shade pretty quickly. So I don't have any objections, to the application.
Anybody else? Anybody else? You're official. I'll go ahead and make a motion. Having considered the standards set forth within the city code, the ADC district design guidelines, I move to find that the proposed rear door overhangs and site modifications at 410 2nd Street Northeast satisfies the BAR's criteria and are compatible with this property and other properties in this ADC district that the BAR approves this application as submitted. Second. Alright. We'll take a vote. Mister Rosenthal? Yes. Miss Taveney? Yes. Mister Timmerman? Yes. Miss Lewis?
Aye. Mister Burrell? Aye. Mister Bailey? Yes. I vote yes. Thank you for Thank you. Listening to us for a few minutes. Appreciate it. And, yes, if you'd like to apply for the escape architect position, go to the city portal. Right? I'm looking at Kate here. And I think they're due May 1. May 1. So you got two weeks. And if you're not interested and know others in the landscape architect, fields, please spread the word. So Fair enough. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Alright. Thanks, y'all. Appreciate you, Kumarina. No deferred items, no new items, no pre application conferences. So we are going to move to other business, staff discussion. We've got downtown wall updates, which we talked a little bit about in the pre meeting, and then design guideline revision update and discussion. So I'll turn it over to staff. Yeah. Just a, you know, a couple of quick updates. It's, a Kate. Now we're talking about like, gosh, what do we do? We have three consent agenda items.
And to some extent, we would even these are. Yeah, we're yeah. Wow, that is sort of, but, you know, it still offers the opportunity to pull something and have a discussion and and and and and so no harm, no foul on that. I will say on trees, I tend to we have had people call me and say, like, the tree next to my house fell. It's leaning on the house. I need the BAR to approve it. I said, no. You don't. Cut it down. Remove it.
It's not safe. Or I know emerald ash, borer has wreak havoc on trees. And so, so I I tend to weigh trees. By and large, you'll see tree removals if it's part of a somebody's building something and has to remove trees. But if it's, I tend to when someone has a reason to remove it, and if they can demonstrate that reason to me, and then tell me what they're going to plant, at appropriate species and the right caliper.
So, one of the things that and I raised this one of the things we want to talk about when we get to design guidelines this year, next year, as we move forward is, you know, that distinguishing what are how do we characterize a designed landscape, something where the and we do have a couple, where we would say, alright, you know, what's what's happening here is the is the plant selection, is the grading, is the the hardscape an intentional thing, or is it random like in my
yard? So that's something to think about, but I don't, by and large, bring trees to you all. And you've probably picked up on that. Alright. So quickly the, did talk about the the the bricks on the mall crossing. Thank you for your, your insight. And, yeah, it's just, more than anything was just to share with you where we are. And, hopefully, things continue to move on schedule. As you know, the mall fiftieth is this summer. In fact, today, I was, they're going to be installing a fiftieth anniversary plaque next
to the twenty fifth anniversary plaque. So I was able to go out there today and say put it here. So, be, Jeff? The granite plinth next to the one that has the twenty fifth, anniversary plaque. And where are those just for the near the Central Place Fountain. I'm not a fan of plaques and markers, the this seemed important to to the city. As you know, the the fountains, are operating again. Two of them have been freed, at the Nook and near Chaps.
The one in Miller's will still be within the cafe space, but the enclosures will be removed. And I'm not sure when, but the chains will be removed from, the Central Place Fountain. I had advised city manager's office that it wasn't necessary to remove the bollards. They are not, original. They're not they those were installed sometime in the eighties, when the chains went in. And I suggest suggest just they just be left in place so that, you know, we don't have more bricks to repair with bricks that don't match.
So but, you know, I don't know what the decision was on that. I did, require, if you will, that the, the eye bolts that are in a couple of the plinths, be removed and that those be patched accordingly and that they, remove the rust stains. So I've been working with folks in public works about how to do that properly mess up the bricks, or I mean, the granite and the plinth. I think I've mentioned this to you before, but it's an an opportunity to say it again out to the the viewing audience.
The bricks on the floor of the Central Place Fountain, if you look at them closely, they don't they don't look like the mall bricks, and that's because they are the original pavers, when West Main Street was was paved in the late eighteen hundreds. So, I don't know how that decision came about, but when they were doing the wall work, the idea was, well, let's use these old bricks. So that's why they look a little unusual, a little different. And, And they're staying. What's that? They will stay. They better. The, and I was during discussion last week about the it's funny, James.
I got your note here that there's no brick in the door, and it's like just bricks are just the theme of my life the last several weeks. But the, a comment was made about repairing the brick runnels and that oh, and then when you know, something about not using the mortar joint. I'm like, no. No. Absolutely. The so but I was able to confirm that the contract has been let to repair the runnels, and they will be repaired with the mortar joint intact. And that was something actually the BAR, back in 2008 when before the mall re
bricking, the BAR really dug in its heels. And, you know, I think most of you know that originally the bricks on the mall had been mortared. They're now sand set, but the runnels, have remained with the mortar joint in between, and they'll be replaced repaired with that intact. The thing that you might hear about and I just want to share with you is that there I've been received questions to the city manager's office about installing additional lights on the mall. They want more of the catenary lights like you see at a couple of sections.
And I way I expressed it back up the ladder is unless, you know, my boss and city manager tell me otherwise, those have to go to the VAR for review. I and I I'm sharing this. I know it sound like me patting myself on the back, but I just want to let you all know it it sometimes what, you know, we're doing internally. And the the mall is an important place. You know that. It is a designed landscape. And part of that design landscape, which, you know, a landscape that is on the national register individually, involve the lighting and the trees and the brick selection, the brick,
the mortar between the bricks. Bricks. So every time we sort of chip away at that, we we lose elements of the mall's integrity. So, I've argued that, I I'll even say this now. If you go walk them all and you'll see in some of the, intersections where there's the crisscrossing of the catenary lights, those were not done by the city. The city allowed friends of downtown to do it. But the dot the lights don't match.
The cables that are pulled between the lights, the the the cables are taught, but the light strings are hanging in loops. It just really, I so I've been expressing back up the ladder that we can do better than that. And those should be fixed. And if you're going to do additional lights on it on the mall, then it that it can't look like, you know, some friends and I went to Lowe's and bought Christmas lights and, you know, hung them in my backyard on sticks. So so I'm I'm I'm just letting you all know I'm trying to maintain that
integrity, and and part of it is insisting that that you all are involved in some way. But the idea of adding an additional series of catenary lights, I don't know, from lamppost to lamppost, I I, I've said that if that's gonna be done, it should be well designed. It should be, you know, done appropriately, etcetera, etcetera. So if you hear anything about that, let me know. But I try internally to make sure that you guys are in the loop on that.
The, the other update I had was the, the appeal for the mark. We'll be going to counsel on May 4. Haven't posted anything yet. Well Do you know what time? At night. I I don't know. I don't know where on the agenda it is. How far out is the agenda get posted? Well, as I get Goal is a week out. And it, sometimes it's within a couple of days. It won't be the day of. I can tell you that. But it will be that evening. I don't know where it will be on the agenda. It's, you know, just wanna just say move your bill.
Yeah. If not, you know, somebody else can volunteer to to, to to to represent essentially what happens is you all know that, I presented the matter like we do at a BAR meeting. The applicant gets ten minutes to present, their project, and then the BAR chair is available or someone from the BAR chair is there to for five minutes and or whatever to express the BAR's position, maybe explain.
But typically ends up being to sort of answer what was the BAR, you know, how did they approach this, how did you know, what was the view on on something. So it's not being interrogated, and, and we'll see what happens. And also, vis a vis that, mister Rader appealed the matter of it being within, the mile or something of student grounds. It went to the board of zoning appeals, and it lost two to two.
And they they needed a three vote to overturn it, and the third person came back, and it was defeated three to two. So, yeah, last Thursday, the the BCA essentially upheld, the determination by the zoning administrator, of and that the determination of what is central grounds. So, I don't know how that impacts that project or the appeal. It's sort of it's a separate lane right now.
It's but, yeah, that this one's inside the zone. What's that? It's inside the zone. Yeah. It's officially It is inside the half mile allowed to be Yeah. Housing. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And Because it's within the half mile of Central Park. Okay. But I thought they defeated them. Was the was the appeal to say it wasn't? The appeal was Sorry. The question is Sorry. The reader who was a neighbor Right. Across the street. Yeah. I gotcha. So And the issue for the mark was if it was outside of that, they
would have to pay substantially more into the, affordable Right. A per unit. And and provide for it on-site. Is that not correct? Right. Yeah. Something like that. But it was Instead of just paying into the profit, they would have to actually develop affordable units because that's part of our new zoning ordinance. Student housing ex exempt from that. That's why Right. Developers are gunning for the student housing designation. Yeah. And and the core the core question on that challenge was the half mile within
one half mile of central grounds was that half mile, the measurement of that appropriate, for that location. And that's where the BCA voted three two to, essentially uphold of the zoning administrator's determination that that it is within a half mile of central grounds. The so the last thing is just to quickly where are we on the design guidelines. You know, if Kate and I could clone ourselves and and, and, you know, not do a lot of the yeah.
The yeah. The sort of the little things that that constantly we have to, you know, double check, triple check, but and could focus on the guidelines. We we know we know what we need to do. It's getting there. But where we are now, and this is after conversation with, with both of our bosses, the first step that we'll be taking is to, to work with, not I don't know. Some of you remember Mary Jo used to have three architectural consultants, historians that were
on call. And I those lapsed with COVID, and I've been meaning to renew that. So the idea is that we get some architectural historians on call, which gives us a couple contractors to work with, sort of one retainer. And then, kind of allocate to you know, it won't be a one size fits all, but to if you recall when we talked about a form book idea, for each of the historic districts. So having a consultant go in and when I say consultant, a historian, then it's
someone an architectural historian to to really recharacterize and better define these districts. Tell us, you know, here's what here's what's character finding there. Here's what the, so what when you take the guidelines and we start saying, you know, respect this, be consistent with that, that we we have an understanding. What are those things that we're consistent with? And and what is, you know, what are they What's the the the what is typical? Second piece is I we will have an intern this summer that, hopefully, we'll be
able to fill that and be handing them sort of a, they're going to become a data junkie and really dive into the things that we can glean from our own mapping, you know, what are those? We talk about distances from from the street. We talk about the space between houses. Or symbol that in some of the districts and sub areas particularly. And then taking all that information, one, allow us, the BAR staff and and certainly
city council and and other stakeholders, but to kind of say, alright, do we have these districts right? You know, do we have the sub areas right? Is this, you know, maybe this sub area needs to be part of that or or as Carl Schwartz has often said, you know, West Main Historic District should should start at Ridge Street. So anything that we tweak like that, I think, you know, an argument could be made for there's some places that I was on the phone this morning for about an hour with a gentleman asked me, alright, if we do something on West Main between the bridge and the university, what is it I'm looking at?
You know, what's my what are my clues to relative historic preservation? So, you know, trying to unlock some of those, get better, definitions of of those spaces and then make some decisions based on those. From that, then the next step would be to where we we're able to say, alright. We characterize it. We know what these spaces are. We've identified what's important. Now taking the ordinance and some of those conflicts that are in there and problem
areas, so that we can make some comparisons, so that that we're able to illustrate those and and present them to the decision makers and say, this is what your word and says, this is what your guidelines say. But before we start tweaking the guidelines, you know, get some direction on, you know, do you do you want us to ignore that? For example, I think one of the most important things in our guidelines, it talks about that street level height.
So and you we use Kate and I used it in a conversation the other day with our colleagues showing how on 218 West Market, how you use that that cornice line of the mall extending down Old Preston to, you know, you extended that on the new hotel, and then the building stepped back and went up. And that's and it's where I I I can't, you know, Kate gets tired of hearing me say it to people over and over again, but it's like the BAR is not afraid of height. If you guys, if you can maintain that that hornet's line and step back appropriately
and not shade the place, but so using, you know, then we'll be able to make some decisions, you know, council, do you just want 12 story buildings, you know, or, you know, here's what our guideline do, sort of then walk work through some of those details. At the same time, we also got things in the guidelines to fix like, murals and public art. And, I think we need to spend some time distinguishing what do we do when something's an IPP versus within a district.
So, but we're working towards a scope of work. We've generated a lot of notes, but we're we're we are starting scope of work so, you know, people can see what we're we're heading towards. So that that's a I don't know. Anything else, it's sort of that the big big picture view. And then as far as then we've got things coming up for next month. Got a couple of interesting projects. One is the house over on Keith Valley Road.
I don't know. That's one of the, you don't even, you might not even know about it. It's one of the oldest houses. It's a log cabins, a large log cabins. Some dates of the seventeen hundreds. It's an IPP. And sort of it's it's it's grown over the years, but the the original lock structure still figures prominently and then sort of, you know, additions step back from that. That. So you'll be looking at something related to that. Maybe the garage at 410 2nd Street. And a few other things.
So, but it's still been relatively quiet as far as large scale projects go. So I don't know. Someday. Someday. But that's, yeah. Yeah. It'll so do you all have any questions for me? Yeah. I've got a question. Yes, sir. So I walk by what they're doing at, Paso Flora everyday. Skybar, they're like building a platform on the mall. And I've watched how they're anchoring it. And I'm like, have they talked to Jeff about that.
Please don't tell me that. I it's supposed to be they are not supposed to have anchored it. It's supposed to be sitting there by the grace of God and wait. Alright. Alright. I'm not certain. I just wanted to see if we had talked to you about it. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. You know, we're we're things have been as far as the cafe spaces and, a heavy hand relative to the to the to the least spaces.
There, you know, it's been intentional that we haven't, you know, been out there, policing them all. But I think, that's going to change somewhat soon. There's just been some change on who's we now have someone who's a, specifically, staff specifically dedicated to the mall, and, and working with them and liaising with with some of the cafe spaces. But, yeah, I walked by that the other day, and I if it's it's if
it's if it's not just sitting on the mall, I'll be So it should be sitting on the mall. I couldn't tell if there was a plate that was anchored on the bottom, and they'd already built up beyond it. Nothing surprises me anymore. Somebody stuck a national the mall, National Register of Historic Places plaque on the on the building, the old the beer place that's never that's been renovated forever. I can't get anyone to acknowledge who put that up, but I'm wondering if there's others elsewhere on the mall. So, yeah, I'm not surprised.
Aren't the masons in that building? They own it. I it's one of those It's a Masonic Hall instead. Masonic Hall is yeah. I I I think I know how it got there, but, no, I was not. I was asked, hey. Can we put up and I said, yeah. Coordinate with the city, we can talk about those. And then poof, it appeared. So things happened to Plea. Thank you. Letting me know, and I'll I'll check on that. And I guess they're obviously allowed to to do that. They are allowed. They they have a, they had more substantial now than it was before when it was just kind of a steel plate that was kind of cut to the contours
of them all. It's it's a it's a legacy of some of the prior decisions. What is it on 3rd Street? Flory has an elevated, stage that, you know, was supposed to be portable and it's a little teeny tiny caster wheels that I probably don't even function anymore. The space there at the Sky Bar, I don't know what it's called now, or if it's anything. But there had been cafe space there on a frame. My understanding is it had been okayed as part of because it's sloped.
So they they were replacing what had been there before, and we had talked about a little bit, and then it just went away. But we can staff approves most of the things administratively on the mall, related to cafes unless somebody wants to do something that is outside of what the the guidelines say, most of those, we approve. But you all did look at that, but it was, like, I don't know, two years ago or so. Right. And it was, like, really hard to read or something.
Right? It It was really hard to read. Are you talking about the Commonwealth platform? Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, like, impossible to read. And how about the, just since we're talking about outdoor spaces, how about the furniture, for lack of better word, outside rapture on third? That is part of that, the for the art panels. Right. The the art panel went up. See a way. So I had heard actually that they were in the process of restoring that bench on the They're supposed to be, they were supposed to be We're gonna revarnishing it.
Yes. I thought it was a condition of our approval of the art panels. Just the the lot of Mhmm. And then similarly, was it I haven't driven down West Main in a bit. Has the Smyrna folks, have they removed their alcove? Yes. I have. Alright. Oh. Yeah. Great. Do we know if they're gonna come back to us? Hopefully, I guess, before probably cold weather. We'll see. We'll see. They crossed the first hurdle. So great. Yeah. And I while I got the mic, I just wanna commend you, Jeff and Kate, for championing, opening the fountains back up.
Yes. Any efforts you guys had in that, we appreciate it. Yeah. And and also Especially during a drought. You know? Like, maybe there's some thirsty dogs on the downtown mall. I know. It just, like, happened, And it was sort of I think we were girding for a longer fight. However Let's just take yes. It's an answer. I do. I appreciate it. But I I appreciate it. I think Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I was asked the other day, there is now an, they wanna revisit discussion of benches on the mall. Now none of you were on the BAR.
Sherry might be you know, you and Carl might be the only two that can really remember those, the issues that happened with a lot of, a lot of what's the right word? The original ones. Well, just the changes. The original ones went away, then Parks and Rec said we're gonna put these in. BAR said no. Then Parks and Rec said we're putting them in anyway. And, so we're but the the real problem with the benches has been businesses that,
oh, we don't want them because the, you know, unhoused are sleeping on them yet. You know, there are people who I talked to on the mall. I wish I had a place to sit down. So, so we will be revisiting that. I will insist that you all I have a question about the furniture and an anecdote as well. I went downtown with my family a couple weeks ago, and we all wanted different food. So we all got our different food and then had to walk to McGuffey to sit somewhere at a table, which isn't insane to me. But let's get some tables that are shared and not private space on the downtown
mall. Yes, and it's because that is a public space. And I think that's one of the, you know, didn't get a lot of attention. But when you all were looking at the design guidelines for the cafe spaces, you adopted those principles about the mall that really establish what that space is and we do refer to them a lot. It is our space. It is a public space. And, I had someone say to me the other day about is that I didn't
realize how often those businesses on the mall are closed. I went down to get lunch. You can't get lunch anywhere. I was like, no. Or you went to get in. Well, they're they're only open a couple nights a week. So, you know, those spaces, all those other times, you you you can't you can't access them or they've chained everything up. And it's been one of the internal discussions of, well, what if those what if the furniture belong to the city? What if those were city spaces? Now, when you were in biz your business was operating, you could see people there, but otherwise, the rest of the time, it's a public space.
Yeah. I think There are tables and chairs at the pavilion, but maybe there's something going on that night. Yeah. It's just Go outside. Saying I can't sit in the sun with my family on a spring beautiful spring day. Like, the pavilion is a sloping. It's just not a not as nice. It's true. Yeah. And I I do get asked that. Yes. If the city created a position as a mall manager, I'm not sure what is it. Yeah. What's the exact Brenda Kelly, our downtown strategy manager, and she's within economic development.
Okay. It's not parks and rec? Correct. It's not neighborhood development. It's economic development. Economic development. Yeah. And now we have curfew over the mall for the BAR. Zoning can enforce a non compliance with a COA. So we do have some say. Alright. Move to adjourn. All in favor. Aye. No opposed. So Sherry, that game was a lot closer than I realized when I rewatched it. Yeah. But my god.