charge. >> It's better to do this now later. >> I'm I'm Italian. >> I'm German. >> And they have a new type of It's called Gorilla Tape. >> Oh, thanks. >> Gorilla tape is like twice as strong as
regular now. >> Here you go. >> Changing one pair of sunglasses for the other. >> You got a bunch. >> You changing one pair of sunglasses for the other. >> Yeah. 40-year-old
>> glasses. >> I thought there was sunglasses. >> Did you? >> Are we waiting for Jeff? >> Would you like to wait for Jeff? >> Do we need to wait for Oh, okay.
All right, then we can get started. Uh, good evening everybody. Happy St. Patrick's Day. Welcome to this regularly monthly meeting of the Charlottesville Board of Architectural Review. Uh staff will introduce each item followed by the applicant's presentation which should
not exceed 10 minutes. The chair will then ask for questions from the public followed by questions from the B. After questions are closed, the chair will ask for comments from the public. For each application, members of the public are allowed three minutes to ask questions and three minutes to offer comments. uh
speakers shall identify themselves and comment should be located to the BAR's purview that is regarding only the exterior aspects of a project following the B's discussion and prior to taking action the applicant will have up to three minutes to respond.
All righty. Um do we have any matters from the public not under items C through E on the agenda? >> No, I don't mind. >> Great. All right. uh our consent agenda. Uh there's only one item which is the
meeting minutes from the January 21st, 2026 bar meeting. Do we have any corrections or edits or comments? I hear a motion to pass a consent agenda. >> I'll make a motion. >> Thank you. Do I have a second?
>> Second. >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? >> All right. Consent agenda passes. Thank you. Um, so our first new item is a certificate of appropriateness application
uh for 554 Valley Road. Do we have a staff report? >> All right, >> great. Thank you. Yeah. Um, and so the owner applicant will be participating virtually today. So I just wanted to let
you guys know. So I'll be looking out for that. Uh, this is an addition on to 554 Valley Road, which actually is a dependency of 7708 uh, JPA. And so this originally was a
garage with a dwelling on top. And so the applicant is proposing um exterior alterations including window replacements, a twostory addition on the front of this dwelling and then um roof
replacement. Um yeah, so Oaker Skilder Sleeve um mostly is known for its uh kind of professor housing from the early 20th century as UVA was expanding. Um I noted the period of sign uh significance for the
neighborhood uh 1912 to 1955. The houses surrounding 540 uh I'm sorry 554 Valley Road are mostly from the late 40s into the early 50s. The two right next to it are from the 1930s. Um, this was the
second dependency for uh the house on JPA. And so this is a little bit later in construction, 1932. And so we have the Sandborn map that was in your staff report kind of showing how it was situated right behind that southern dependency from JPA. Um, and so it's
sort of made for an awkward parcel. You can see there's actually a little bit of a a swale that you have to cross with your vehicle to access the part um the property and it's very um very just blended into the landscape. Uh just going out there, you can't see it from
the road. There's a lot of vegetation and everything. So, the applicant was really great and being responsive to provide us uh the photographs that we needed. So, I kind of noted that stone is one of the unique features of this neighborhood. All of the dwellings around it have the kind of unique
fieldstone look. Um, and then on top is the frame with stucco. Kind of show you what they're proposing. The front elevation modified with fixed windows. They are asking to replace the um the casement,
the original metal casement with new casements, so at least they would operate in the same way. And then I just threw the section up there so you could kind of see how it doesn't necessarily protrude too much as it really it's meant to be a stairwell on the interior.
And couple more photographs for reference for you guys so you can really see the windows in red dashed lines. Those are the front elevations, the windows they're replacing, the upper story, our uh older vinyl windows that
will be replaced with casements. The lower portion in the stone wall, those will actually be widened for safety egress issues as they're using or um turning the lower level into bedrooms. They are going to replace the garage
doors. That whole opening will disappear as will the stairs, railings, porch, deck. That will now be all cohesive track stacking with stairs. >> It was originally a garage. >> Mhm. Yes. >> Well, the lower level with the dwelling
dwelling above it. Yeah. And then oops, sorry guys. So, a kind of a list laundry list of the additions they're um sorry, the alterations they're looking to achieve. They are planning on using some of the
existing site stone into the addition at the lower level and blending in as best possible. The applicant stated that the casements were just not repairable. And so that's why they're proposing complete replacements.
>> The metal windows. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, anybody have Is that the end of the staff report? >> That's it. Is that good, Jeff? Anything you wanted to add? I know you came in. >> Any other questions for staff?
All right. Does the applicant want to give a presentation? >> Hold on one sec. Let me switch over to Zoom. >> Miss um Edwards, if you um would like to talk about your project, please go ahead.
Can you hear us? >> There you are. >> I I can hear you. Can you hear me? Okay, >> we can. >> Okay. Um, no, I don't have any any further commentary, but I'm here to answer any questions. >> Great. Okay. Thank you. Um, let's start
with any questions from the public. If you've got a question, come step up to the podium, please, and uh tell us your name. >> Hi, my name is Judy Pelifer, and I'm just going to assume those metal windows that she's talking about that they're very drafty and,
you know, not energy efficient that she wants to replace those old windows. >> I guess Miss Edwards, >> can you hear me, Lindsay? She's on mute, I think. >> Hi. Yes. Can you hear me? Hi. >> Yes. >> Yes. Did you hear my question about the
windows? Okay. >> So, all all original windows are going to be replaced. And the vinyl ones that were replaced by the previous owner are also going to be replaced with double pane windows, which are in a style that is
more in keeping with the historic nature of the original windows. Okay. Are the original windows now in place? Are they all drafty and, you know, not energy efficient, those old windows? That's the question I have. >> Yeah, absolutely. I had someone come out
and assess restoring all the original windows and they said that the efficiency of the original windows there, it was not possible to achieve what I needed to achieve for the envelope of the building. Okay, thank you. Any other questions from the public or here or online? All
right. Uh, questions from the >> B. >> I've got a question. Um, how does this relate to Valley Road? I've been hadn't had a chance to get over there, but is the addition facing Valley Road and how
far off of it is it? I can tell you you can't see it. Um, it's um, and it's it's I think even like a bridge almost and kind of up a hill. >> It's situated on the landform and so there's like a an intentional swale
below it and there's like actually a little tiny bridge crossing that you have to to access. It's completely there's all of a screen of vegetation on the front. Um, however, it there are there are stone facades on every single
house right immediately adjacent to it. >> Hi, I would also like to add >> the house sits at a 45 degree angle to Valley Road and additionally this is this could not necessarily be considered an addition. There's no
possible way to pass from the first floor to the second floor in an enclosed space in the existing house. So when we talk about this quote unquote addition, the only thing that we are adding is an enclosed stairway on the front of the house to have an interior stair to have
a finished bottom level connect to the upper level. >> Chair, there's a um a site plan. They've got a plat on page 32 if you saw it. >> I do see it now. >> Um, so I had a question uh on the gable
ends of the house. I guess there maybe there's an attic space uh and there's two small windows up at either end. Are you planning to replace those as well? >> Those as well. Those as well. Those as well.
Okay. >> Yes, these should be replaced. The insulation will be added at the framing at the attic level. So, we're going to be insulating at those rafters and not at the roof level. So, they could remain
in place as original windows because we don't we will not need the envelope to be secured at that level, but um we will be replacing those attic windows as well. >> Okay. So you you would like to replace them? >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> And then uh another quick question. It's uh in the documents it was a one note said something about removing or the chimney and another note said something about repairing the chimney and capping
it. What's your intention? Sorry, my mic goes on mic every time goes on mute every time I speak. Uh, we will be repairing the chimney and copying it. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Those are my questions. Anybody else have questions?
Is there a driveway or way to get to this this uh building? >> Yes, there's a gravel driveway across a bridge. >> Well, a concrete bridge and then a
gravel driveway. In these photos, you're seeing at least And what is your plans for the roof? >> It will be an asphalt shingle roof. I guess to push that question a little further, um, our staff report recommends um that we put a condition on here that
you um you replace the metal roof with a metal roof per our guidelines. Um, do you have is that doable? It's kind of a big question, but it's um I think we're going to get to that at some point tonight.
>> Yeah. Um, well, anything else doable? I >> uh guess I would ask my contractor if he'd like to chime in. So, I guess there's we have design
guidelines that um that you're hoping to meet. So there I think there's what you're applying to do and what you'd like to do, but not everything that you're applying to do meets our guidelines. And so that's why we're um asking about that in particular. Um
basically, one of our guidelines says avoid replacing a standing seam metal roof with asphalt shingles. So more than likely we're going to recommend or or actually maybe put a condition that you use a metal roof. So that's why the question came up.
>> Yeah. I mean, I guess I is it just budget or is there is there another reason an asphalt shingle roof would be preferable to you or is it again just a budget item? feel like.
>> Hi. Can you hear me? Okay. >> No. >> Takes a lot. >> Yeah. Sorry. I I'm actually calling from Estonia. It's almost midnight here. friend here for a long trip. So, the connections kind of bey um so originally
the roof was standing seating. The budget for renovating this house came in more than the cost of purchasing the house. And I've been looking for ways to reduce cost for the renovation
because of the um exceeding the original budget. So that was the original intention of switching to an asphalt shingle roof, but the original intention of the design was to go to standing seam. >> Is the What's the condition of the roof?
Is it is it leaking or could it just be painted? >> It is definitely leaking. >> Okay, gotcha. I if anyone has driven by this house, it is in the worst condition possible. Not
even viable for human occupancy right now. >> Okay. I remember seeing this. >> There were so many breakins that the previous owner put in a brand new security system because so many people were breaking in and squatting in this house.
>> All right. Uh, any other questions from the V? All right, we'll move on. Uh, do we have any comments from the public? >> Anybody online? All right, we'll go to comments from the B. I uh would definitely like to see the
roof go back as as metal roof. Okay, great. Yeah, I'm trying to think. Um, do we have Jeff, do you remember instances where we've I feel like there's been some where we've allowed asphalt to replace metal.
>> Uh, but I can't think of if we actually did that anywhere that >> it it's a it's a preference uh recommendation in the guidelines. Um, >> I just wonder about precedent. I think that I I we've allowed some changes on
remember we allowed uh one house they removed the slate and put on metal so they could do solar panels. Uh in fact ultimately did that at the church as well. The um I guess I would say
as someone in an 1884 house facing uh a new roof, I I'm not going to replace it with asphalt, but I sure wish I could. So, I I think it's not an unusual question that we'll be seeing. Um I think where um
I look at I look at it as uh we've got we know what the roof was. We um I think the valid argument there this one needs to be replaced. Um so that if anyone were to um restore it later or you could
certainly return it. Um so in installing asphalt shingles doesn't negate that possibility but my preference would be yes uh that it be metal. >> So I guess where I'm struggling with
this one is how precious is it? You know it's it's an out building for you know a more important house on JPA. Is that house on JPA contributing? It is okay. Um and they're doing a lot of work that is
it's you know but well little less than reversible. I mean they're lowering the seals on the stone windows um or the windows that are set in stone. Um they're building that bump out with matching stone and some of the salvage
stone. Um, so it I feel like if this were a more visible house and maybe a more um important contributing structure in one of our districts, some of these things would
cause me more heartburn. Um, but as it is, I feel like at least, you know, they're the inal form of the house is staying the same. It's, you know, there's still going to be, I guess, the knowledge that there was a out building right here. I I don't know. It I I feel
like I'm okay, I think, with what's being presented. Um, I'm leaning towards being okay with the roof again because it's an out building and it's um not really visible from the street. Um
I a couple of comments though on the um the staff recommendations. Uh, one of the recommendations was that the the windows that are in the stucco wall um are I think you said that you want them to be um flush or slightly proud from the stucco,
but the existing windows are recessed. So, I feel like that that doesn't make sense to me to push them out. This is where you know the we were looking at the photographs and um you know when you had I mean when the windows were there
>> um >> I I think that the it appeared to me and I could very well I do see now uh but if there's if there is if it's reduced into the opening such that it could be done that way without producing >> a um
you know whatever that return detail has to be. I didn't know if they have to widen those or change and once you start to change maybe I should have better said on the front where they are making a wider window. Um unless you've got you know you can say have it inset and then they have to do a return at the edge
that's fine. >> I I mean it looks like the existing details do a stuck return around all those windows. Um so I mean I just make it consistent I guess. >> I have no problem with that. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. I didn't feel strong. I just wanted to make sure we
>> I was curious about your Yeah. So, I guess you answered why I was wondering why you wrote that comment that um that makes sense. Um I Yeah. And I you know I the idea of retaining the garage door on site seems
great, but it's going to disappear. I think it's a little easier to do that when it's a big commercial building. Um sorry, I don't mean to tear at your conditions, but that was those are the two that I would drop. But then I think I would be okay with the rest of the application.
>> What was the second thing I I >> requirement to preserve or save the doors on site. I mean I do think they're pretty neat and they kind of are honorific of the fact that it was a garage. I was kind of wondering if they couldn't be, >> you know, restored is probably not the right word, but cleaned up, repainted,
and maybe just even just like hung on the wall inside somewhere like it's hard work almost, you know, and that that way they stay with the house. Um, I mean, Carl, I tend to agree with your general assessment. I thought the um the staff
report put it well in saying the former garage dependency was never intended as a primary residence, nor was the building given a significant position on the landscape or improved access to the street. It is essentially a secondary structure or utilitarian outbuilding. I mean, I do think that's kind of how we
should view this in a in a broader scheme. Um, uh, you know, I I kind of tend to agree with Jerry on the roof, but at the same time, it's sort of if if allowing an ashall shingle roof helps this building
get preserved, maybe take that win. Um, one one I should have asked this during the questions, forgive me, but um, the casement windows, uh, looking at the historic photo in the staff report and also knowing we've got metal casements
in the basement level, I think it's safe safe to assume and I think the historic photo shows a casement window for the upper level. Uh, where I'm going with this is I think the Pella uh, sorry, what are they called? lifestyle
windows that y'all are specking do have a divided light option. And I would personally like to see that because you can still achieve a casement opening but kind of honor the original appearance of the historic windows while still
maintaining your energy standards and whatnot. I don't object to I mean I understand the reasoning for enlarging the basement windows and so I don't I'm not gonna push back on that but didn't know if others would agree with that um
that thought of going for the divided lights feel like the it the wide open window just looks like a hole in the wall to me >> I guess my only hesitation is that It's um we don't really know what was there. And then with the the windows in the front, they're going to be bigger. So,
it's um >> I mean, I think I I do think we know it's there because I think there's one there was one historic photo that was it's not it didn't get shown tonight, but it was in our packet. Um that's essentially in the
>> I don't know which elevation this is with that shows the side door. It's that window beside it. Mhm. >> You can see it's got a it's a casement window. >> Um, you know, I'd also prefer if they could restore and retain that entrance door,
the the personnel door to the second floor. I didn't know if what if there's a really strong reason for replacing that. Um, Lindsay, do you want to reply to any of those thoughts?
>> Um, I'm not opposed to having the divided light for the pillow replacement windows. Um, I guess I have a follow-up question on the placement for the main door at the entry. >> Okay. Am I hearing that you have a
question on why I'm replacing the original door? >> Yes. >> James, I think you're asking about the one the side door. >> Yeah, I'm asking about the second floor door that goes >> to the kitchen. >> Yes, to the kitchen.
Uh, I was intending to have a secure envelope for the whole house and since I was replacing every opening, I wanted to ensure that the envelope was sealed and energy efficient. So, I was replacing
all openings at that point. >> And it's not original. >> Oh, it's not. Okay. That is my understanding. >> Okay. It was hard to tell from the pictures because there's a storm door. So, um
>> yeah, >> if it's not original, I'm not going to argue for it, but be nice to confirm. Um, and what do you think about trying to somehow store the garage doors on site or use them as
>> use them as artwork or something? Um, they are kind of a unique feature to this particular house and speaks to its original function. >> Yeah, I could definitely look into um reusing work. I talked to a contractor about reusing them as doors, but they
would have to be significantly rebuilt to be uh rodent resistant and um have the proper sealing as part of the envelope. But I could definitely consider um using them as something on the interior.
>> Okay. I think that's the spirit of it is just kind of keeping them with the house instead of throwing them in the dumpster if if that's possible. Um but yeah, it doesn't necessarily need to be a functioning door. Um, though you might could get creative with like a barn door style with like a
sliding rail or something if you wanted to, but that's that's the interior. So, that's up to you. >> Um, >> Lindsay, why didn't the why didn't the protruding part just come down to the ground? It looks like you have some brackets underneath there.
>> Uh, so those were added for structural support. I wanted to keep the base with the stone consistent uh band across the bottom. I felt it go to the ground. >> It would not read as well in the elevation. Um
if there's opposition to that, we could bring it fully to the ground, but in my opinion, uh stone is a much robust material to be um interacting with the ground. And so I wanted to have that separation. >> That's great. I was just curious what
you know inspired you to design it this way. I don't know if you did the design or who did the design, but um I think it's just worthwhile to note that >> um that um there's an intention to it and that's a good intention, I think. And I would just I think it's worthwhile
to mention that, you know, he tried to do things to try to um reinforce just the nature of the house like what um James suggested. I think it's a good suggestion. and try to keep some of the um items on site. Um I think just with
that, you know, um I wonder if you know there's just on the design, I guess my other question is why are there two roofs above the part that's protruding out? There's there's the gable roof and then the um the flat part above the
bay. Yeah, that was an intent just to bring some of this standing seam um previous roof to visible. You've you know when you look at the photos and you look at the existing standing seam um you really can't see the standing seam from the
road from the front road, but uh in the photos when you go to the rear yard, you're up on the top of the hill and that's when you see the standing seam. So 90% of the time you never actually see the roof from the ground level. And so the intent of having the gable and the standing seam was to kind of
maintain that homage to the existing standing seam and and then the gable roof was more of a simplification of the structural system needed for the addition. >> I see.
Well, I I mean I I guess I'm um my thoughts are just along the lines of Carl, which is that I don't feel like this building's significant enough to um make you foot a bill. It's $50,000 more, however much more the the roof um is
going to cost you. Um, I just for me it's just a matter of I think um the preferring that you um be intentional and kind of how you how you treat the house. Um the only suggestions that I might offer is that the you know the
house is simple. Um so maybe just try to maintain the simplicity. Um, I found that the the bay is sort of like that, you know, three-sided thing is not necessarily from a design standpoint in keeping um with the general kind of proportion and detailing of the house.
Um, and then the double roof feels a little busy to me um as well, though I appreciate your intention and um you know, nodding to the sanding metal scene, but um I'm I'm willing to approve it.
Okay, understood. Thank you. >> Also, the one other thing, the brackets are it's well, the brackets feel a little funny just kind of being in in set the way they are. Um, but these are just little minor details
for conversation. Okay. Agree. >> I make a motion if we're ready. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Okay. Um, having considered the standards set forth from the city code, including the ADC district design guidelines, I move
to find the proposed addition and alterations at 554 Valley Road that satisfies the B's criteria, is compatible with this property and other properties in this ADC district, and that the BA approves the application as submitted with the following conditions. Um,
we would recommend though not require that you find some way to keep the garage doors on site if you can. Um, reuse them decoratively or wherever you think you can do. um that the um
uh window and door trim that's on the stucco be treated consistently whether it's installed recessed or flush or proud of the stucco that it's just done consistently. Um similarly for the uh windows that are in
the stone wall uh the new gutter should be half round. Um and uh the existing chimney should be retained. >> Did I miss anything we talked about? >> Did I have any support on the divided light or
>> Oh um >> I I'm fine with that but it's >> the applicant seem to be okay with it. um that we recommend you um look into using divided lights for the windows. And if you do, they need to follow our
guidelines for divided lights and have an internal spacer bar. >> There was a note on the staff report that mentioned recessing the windows in the stone facade. >> I I said treat them consistently, but I guess yeah, in the stone they should be recessed. >> Yeah.
>> Um so that's a modification to my Okay. Second. >> All right, we'll call the vote. Uh, Mr. Schwarz, >> yes. >> Mr. Bailey, >> yes. >> Mr. Burl, >> I. >> Mr. Timberman, >> yes. >> Mr. Rosenthal, >> I abstain. >> Okay. Miss Tabony,
>> yes. >> And I vote yes. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate you calling in from so far away in the middle of the night. Um, we really appreciate your time and good luck and >> have a good night's sleep.
>> Thank you very much for the character. >> Yep. >> Where was she at? Estonia. >> Yeah. Way too close to Russia. No, I was going to say. >> All righty. Thanks everyone. All right. Our next
COA application is for 707 through 709 West Main Street. seasonal festival. >> All right. So, here this is one that um well, first off,
it's a COA request um for a a temporary seasonal vestibule at the entrance to a a currently being used as a restaurant on West Main Street. Um, the building dates to 1920, 1925.
Uh, they're bronze frame storefront windows and this is actually a section of West Main. It's fairly intact relative to the commercial storefronts. Um, it's been described in our
guidelines as or in the survey as a uh one of the best preserved stretch of historical commercial buildings on West Main Street. And um this request is a little bit unusual. It is not a um a permanent change. Uh but it is a
temporary installation that is um sort of taken on a a different form. Um about a year and a half or so ago, I had um asked you all about a um uh the owner of the building or the man
the property manager contacted me asked about uh during the winter could they install a temporary vestibule. Uh these are fairly typical a lot of towns in the northeast over the winter. Uh they're intended to be installed and and taken
down and moved. Um I after talking with you all um I responded that this would I would treat this as a like a temporary tent seasonal tent which are only allowed if you all agree to them uh in
front of a non-contributing structure or I'm sorry in front of a contributing structure. So I was willing to entertain it uh as a tent, bring it to you um possibly there was be some conditions uh to its installation and and removal offseason etc etc. Uh
and felt like I had reported that back to the um building manager. Uh they subsequently installed um the vestibule that you see here and it had uh it came
with it's manufactured with a um uh a framed door. Um and apparently there were some concerns expressed to them about uh it opening out because the the entrance um >> to the door the sidewalk. Yeah. the the
the in the al cove there is is on a it's pitched so the door can't open in. Uh so they replace that door with um what you see here kind of a weather um opening uh vinyl and and fabric with a velcro
strip. So the as far as what is being asked of you and that be something to clarify with the the applicant. uh this is not as manufactured. This is a sort of a a a
jerryrigged uh solution to the to the door opening out. Um but it so I would my assumption is this is what's being asked for approval. Um, I don't have an issue with this and have
recommended it be if it had come to you a year ago before it installed. I would have recommended uh approval uh on the condition that it be removed in its entirety um and during the warm period and I think we'd have to probably discuss what that is
but that it would be you know during cold season uh winter season uh but in in when that period ended then it would be removed in its entirety not just the door taken off. Um we're and also there
is uh and we noticed when we went out there that they have installed over the entrance a uh a heater sort of a a what do they what's a wind curtain or air curtain. Yeah. And so um that is a
permanent alteration on the exterior that um was not reviewed by us. Now, even though it's inside this temporary vestibule, that also required a COA. Uh I I would not recommend that we approve
that. In fact, we have um even recently denied that at uh some requests on some commercial uh storefronts. My recommendation um on this or staff I say my recommendation is that the um uh
this is in place and it is currently uh a zoning violation because it did not get a COA. Um, I have told the um talked to the applicant and talked to the zoning folks and it's still in place and I'm fine with that pending uh the decision that you all
make and um I didn't want to have it taken down and then you all would say it was okay. So, so tonight's discussion is important, but my recommendation is that um as a temporary seasonal vestibule, uh
I'm not sure it's something we want to see throughout the city, but I think that we could, as we did several years ago, uh I think staff could evaluate um a policy uh uh that's supportive of these. I mean we we are seeing as you
all know uh these former commercial spaces are now used as restaurants and and and public spaces. So there is a uh a different need uh uh relative to you know when you have tables right inside the door uh that's one of the concerns.
So I I think anything that that continues the use of our historic buildings uh we need to look at but I think we need a a policy. So my recommendation is to approve this COA and that it be removed by April 1st,
2026. You all certainly can change that date, modify that date, uh but that it be removed in its entirety. Um and including you the and the holes filled, things like that. This isn't just to take the the thing off the front.
The second thing is that um sorry where's my recommendation? uh my instructions. So yeah, so what I was it's it's not saying it exactly as had it u but the that you
all instruct us uh Mr. Richardson and I to um to take a look at this and craft a sort of policy um and to to to bring that back so that we can in anticipation
of uh other requests and certainly anticipation of this coming back um for the the next cold season uh that we would have some guidelines in place uh to respond to it and that way it's sort of I I think uh fair for everyone
involved here Um and and I and I think it's important to that take a look at it. And then what the comments are up there is that uh don't necessarily have to um get into it now, but um long ago I
I talked to the then city attorney about tents and she had offered that you know the B can for temporary tents can suggest time periods when components will be permitted and conditions to the size, color, placement and even
installation methods for such components. So that's directly from what legal council for the city offered at the time. So those are um suggest those are the types of conditions that you all can consider whether you wanted to adopt
something for that this evening uh for this particular instance or but certainly uh in instructing uh Miss Richardson and I to to draft a policy. So sorry does that that any questions about that? I have a
few questions. Is Is this the first year it's been put up? >> No. >> So, it's um So, has it been up permanently since it's been put up or has it been taken down during the summer? >> I don't >> It's been up consistently for about 15 months now. >> Okay.
And um Oh, go ahead. I if I remember correctly, this uh out on the sidewalk is city property. I don't know exactly where the city uh property line starts, but you can
assume it's close to the front wall. >> Okay. And I think we discussed about handicapped access. >> So the the situation is that and I asked back when Mr. Fox contacted me um
initially about it and um there is not a code issue because I had wondered is there a code issue with a door opening out into the sidewalk. Um there wasn't but apparently they the the restaurant did this in response to some concerns
were expressed to them. So this wasn't something they were required to do. But no, a door couldn't go in because of the the ramp part and also anybody that I I I don't know as far as this is another question we have to resolve and we would address it in the or we would look at it
in the policy. Is that ADA accessible? I do not know and I >> but that would have to be something that you know we would incorporate into that. But you all are looking at it relative to uh is is this compatible or
incompatible with the architecture and character of that building and and will address the ADA and building code issues, >> right? >> Mr. Tim, answer. >> Yeah. Well, I guess I um I just So, I guess in the summertime they just take the the blanket down and then they
>> No, we would remove the entire >> in entire that that otherwise that then I'm sorry that's the the additional piece on the recommendation. >> If someone wished to do this permanently, then my recommendation
would be to to work with a a a glazing company and to fabricate an extension of the storefront. um that that respected uh this what's there and that could be installed permanently. These what you
see there were not intended to be permanent installations and I I I it it wouldn't last and I wouldn't uh I would not recommend approval. >> Yeah. I'm just curious how how did they use it in the summertime? Were they did they just take the blanket down and they
kept the the plexiglass panel on the side? You said it's been up for 15. I think there was a moment where it wasn't there, but I mean the applicant's here. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> Um, so yeah, I want to ask the applicant to
come up and speak to us. Um, >> but I didn't see their actual application. I just saw the staff report. So, is there >> It should be attached. There's um some photographs that we we we augmented with some information we had. So, it's uh if
you can we open that. >> Okay. I just want to be clear on exactly what they are submitting. >> They are submitting that image right there unless >> they seasonal. >> Well, there's no no there's no question about it being a seasonal temporary
vestibule. Uh whether they intend to reinstall the door or retain that um that fabric opening um unclear, but I I'm assuming that's what they want in there. So, there you go. That's the door as installed. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. Remember that.
>> Yeah. And so I would be fine with that also. In fact, I somewhat would prefer that. But um and then that's what is there now. >> But that didn't even with the door, it didn't get approved.
>> No. >> Right. All right. Um >> I have a question about your recommendation um to approve it until April 1st. If we approve it now, that doesn't imply that that would be able to be reinstalled at any point. >> No, every application is viewed
independently and you certainly can state that. I I think you know would you could say in any motion you know under the circumstances and and um but what we're trying to do is uh we recognize this this is zoning violation but I'm
trying to find a solution that that um that works for the applicant works for us and um and because I as I had told uh the property manager a year or two ago is you know this is something we would entertain we we could consider it. Um,
so I don't I want to slam the door on it, but only as a temporary item. And then here you can see the the the air curtain that was installed. Now, you all may have uh an opinion of that. There has not been an application for that. I would have no problem if you wish to
address that in the motion. Um, but I'm assuming unless Mr. Fox says otherwise that this current uh arrangement is what they're requesting a COA for and with the understanding that it might have the
door reinstalled but I I don't see how that would happen in the next month or why they would do that. >> Two weeks. >> Yeah. >> And do we need a end date so that say it starts again October 1st? >> No. Anything new would be a new COA request and would come to you.
>> They never brought it to us. >> Okay. Yeah. So, this is a um and you you've done that before. You've approved things that had I mean I said the only thing in our guidelines that you currently approve formally are temporary and seasonal tents. Um but you have
you've applied guideline or timelines and conditions to other things. So, I'm just trying to bridge the uh zoning violation, resolve that by getting a COA. They have resolved the zoning violation, but the COA also stipulates
that it gets removed and if they want to reinstall it, it would come back. >> Good. I mean, I'm curious about the building code potential violations, but that's not our purp um >> other than, you know, whether or not this required a building permit or not, I don't know. But um I was told that the
building code official said that the door can open out. There's no We do have buildings in fact where doors open out. >> It's not really us. Okay. Does the applicant want to make a presentation? Do you guys want to come? >> Oh, I understand. As far as that thing being accessible, I don't know.
>> One way or the other. >> Come on up. >> Good evening. My name is Cliff Fox. the property management for the majority of that strip. Um the application the COA application was um
produced in a rush uh to make this meeting u deadline. Um the goal is to come up with a curative solution that um as much as feasible honors the historic
character of the property. If you look at uh 707 through 711 that's been attempted u over the past decade. Um uh what we're trying to achieve is a
seasonal um temporary vest vestual uh that can be installed or maintain and I understand we may have to come back for another permit um annually from October 1 uh through
uh March 31st. Um it's um it relieves a hardship on the for the restaurant seating. It knocks um uh staff had recommended an interior
solution which knocked out eight seat eight seats which translates into a huge sum of lost revenue um each each month. Um so we're trying to accommodate the tenants needs
the tenants needs uh while respecting the building. Um the there wasn't uh a COA the the tenant was instructed to make it the application back in 200
24. That didn't happen. So this is kind of a remedial process to get us current. Um, we're not uh they replace the um door
with the the flexible magnetic opening thing u vinyl um uh this past October. Um, I think his uh the property owners would like a
solution that was completely removed from um April through um through September with depending on
whether a viable installation, temporary installation for the cold weather season. >> Okay. >> I can try to answer any questions. >> Great. No, thank you. >> Um, all right. I guess we'll start with any questions from the public.
>> Just want to be clear the when I spoke with them two years ago about a permanent solution. I had suggested that a an interior vestibule could be constructed like a almost a 3x3 small framed wall. the idea of building
something permanent now preferably they could do it if they inside won't work I my suggestion was something on the outside could be pursued but it would have to be something designed and you know working with a with a a professional company to
to to extend the storefront right any questions from the public either here or online okay questions from the the AR have a question if you don't mind coming back up. Thanks. So the door we see in image five.
So it was installed with a door at one point and that door was removed. >> Yes. I think uh what happened they installed this um with the open out opening door. Uh I
thought this was a remedial solution that the tenant came up and dealing with building codes, fire department and stuff like that. So I thought they had complied by making application, that sort of thing. But so that door is still
there. It's in the basement or something like that. So that could be reinstalled. Um >> I mean, was there a reason why it was removed? Um >> it was perceived from uh the comments we got from the city.
>> Oh, >> that >> No. >> No. >> Yeah. >> I think that that was the tenants interpretation. >> Okay. What was the interpretation >> that that it was a that it was the out
opening door was a fire code issue or a building code issue because it opened out across the sidewalk. I think that was a question that came up early on >> and uh
Okay. So, this is basically a curtain that you pull aside and walk in. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I got a question. Um, so you mentioned the building, you're the property manager, but you mentioned the building owner. >> Does the building
uh the whole length of the building have a single owner >> or just Yes. Okay. Um, and they would like do you think does and you forgive me I don't want to put words in your mouth. Did you I think I heard you say that they wanted a more
permanent solution or do they want would they prefer a solution that's seasonal? >> They want the se uh the tenant to do what they're supposed to have done. the um longer maybe a longer we want a permanent solution which is either
seasonal or permanent that meets code. >> Gotcha. >> Um because I could potentially see a way forward. I mean as as much as that recessed opening is part of the historic form of the building,
possibly a more successful approach at this would be to storefront across the entire thing to each of those. Is it two or three entrances across there and provide sort of a uniform vestibule for all of those instead of this little oneoff telephone booth right there? But I think that's to be discussed in a
future submission potentially. >> Um, sorry, I'm getting off track. Questions? More questions? >> I guess I have a question about our role tonight. um because it's already existing, we can't
really say we want to modify it in such a way to it's either we're either approving it or denying it. Sort of end of story. Or are we discussing how we would make if we deny it, are we discussing how we would modify it to make an approval or is that for another
date? >> I'd rather that for another date personally. I mean, I know where I stand on this. I I well wait till comments. Sorry. >> Yes. Try and stick on. >> Yeah. The the the >> But I guess we can answer your question.
>> Yeah. And I mean that and this is you know there's the give and take of this so we're not I try not to draw too bold a line but um you know Mr. Fox could could say you know hey we we want the option of using leaving this up >> for the next weeks or putting the door
back up for a period of X weeks. The only caveat I would say to that is I don't know if either of these um whether the door or this fabric opening uh there whether there are any code issues relative to ADA or or building code. So
I don't know. So I just want to be crystal clear about even if you all say you love this thing and it can stay up for perpetuity. Um the reality is is that the building code or the fire department might tell me something else. But um if you all wanted to I mean that
those were the timeline for it is a um you certainly can modify that. I just the point being that this is not the result the result because the applicant has the you know stated that this is a seasonal
temporary uh uh installation. So I be crystal clear that that means at some time point it gets removed and you all can determine when that is. Um but is that is that help? I mean you can be
flexible here. I again this is about finding a solution. >> So if I may >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So the question is if we wanted to what we could do is simply say this must be removed by April 1st and then if you ever want to put it up again come back
and ask about it. >> That is my recommendation. Then with that then not part of the COA is is you all instructing because it helps when it comes from you all because Kate and I can then say we were asked by the BA to do the following and it goes to the top
of the list. So it's um or you all may say nah we're fine the current provisions for temporary seasonal tents covers this. Um and I mean that's a possibility. Yeah, I would uh agree with Ron Ron's
assessment if that's a strategy that we can take. >> Um and then we can come back and say, "Yeah, but you can't put a curtain." >> Yeah. >> Uh it's got to be something >> better than that, >> right? When you come back in August or whatever, >> correct? Yeah. >> Yeah. It's hard to react to something
that we don't know what it's going to be. >> So, it's that this is sort of I don't think this is acceptable for one of our main streets. Um, so I would certainly recommend putting a timeline on it, but doing it in a way
that, you know, is feasible for the for the restaurant. >> I do think it would be useful if we I know it's burning our own time, but useful to have somewhat of a discussion about what is and is not acceptable. Um, because if it if it ends up that, you know, they come back in September with
this and we say, "Oh, that's fine. Just put it back up." you know, we're we're running into an issue where they're, you know, potentially damaging the existing wall and whatever by taking this thing down, putting it back up because it's currently fastened into all the right >> into the storefront into the wall. Um,
so I just Yeah, I think it might be worthwhile to have a little bit of a conversation about what would be acceptable. >> Yeah. Let's get to the comments section and then we can do that. Um, I agree. >> I think I know where I stand, but I also agree. >> Uh, any other questions? Yes, sir. Well,
I first of all um and this is not really related to this design, but I feel like we do want to accommodate this tenant. Uh the restaurant is is a benefit to our
community. I want to commend the the chef for his honors that he has received recently and I think that we will want to work and make sure that the uh the
seating is available inside and that we come up with a good design that is going to benefit that uh that street and and the restaurant too. We'd love any input you have on that
design criteria because that would be very helpful in coming back. >> Great. >> All right. Just to get through the motions. >> I second those I second those comments. >> Just to get through the motions of the meeting. Are there any more questions? >> Thank you. >> Um I do have one more question.
>> End it with a question mark, please. >> Thank you. >> I will try. Um >> um yeah. Um, was this whoever procured this was it was it is the intention for it to be
a permanent or an impermanent structure? Is it something that's meant to like be put up and taken down during summer the summer season? >> Question mark. Thank you. That was a question. That was a question. That's a good question. Last year we applied.
>> Do you mind coming up? Actually, it's because there's people online potentially. >> Thank you. >> Last year we put the uh we applied and then we it was denied and because of the door was blocking the sidewalk. >> Mhm. >> And then uh we removed the door and I
thought that was the issue to not approve. And then I'm like, okay, summer is I don't need the door. And then I asked my next door, is it blocking? They said, okay. And then winter came, freeze, super cold. And then we put the
curtain. I know maybe it's not best design but you recommend it. It was the temporary but um also after maybe your um approve or not I would like to work on the better
design or taken off you know. Okay >> cuz I have the violation right now. >> Yeah that's the thing but I hope the what was the question your question. Oh, I was just wondering I guess you sourced it. You found you found this item. Did
you buy it? >> Yes, I installed that. The first company put the vestible >> and then the door we removed after the uh bar >> last year cuz the again it was the
blocking the sidewalk. >> Mhm. And we realized, yes, that shouldn't be in the that side. It should be the other side, but it was going to block the other side. >> Mhm. >> And then the bar recommended to us to
put the vestible inside, >> but it's it's a uh I was going to lose at that plan. I'm losing the three tables. >> Yeah, that makes sense. That means big >> profit for monthly or yearly you know
>> and the solution okay let's remove the door not double block the sidewalk at least in the winter >> again if it's not uh I am open mind to better um curtain uh air curtain too but
that's not the only one solution I think cuz we tried that that's kind of old one I'm okay to buy the new one. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Just the winter time cuz all the it's not on the first day all entire room is getting super cold.
>> Okay. >> And when they and and when you did your research on this, was it is this sold as like a impermanent or a temporary structure? Is there something about the way you kind of put this thing up that allows you to take it down and then put it back up or is it or is it more of a
you screw it to the side and >> Westville? Correct. >> Yeah. >> Westville is Yes. Uh with the screw and then again he is uh Mr. Schwarz right if I take that and put it it's going to be
the screw issue after maybe like several times maybe not in the second time but um again the my purposes is the seasonal solution that's why I apply for the seasonal but if bar says city says you
can keep that the side you know I will keep it and then remove the door or curtain right now for the summer because that helps even the summer sometimes it's windy here and it helps to for my entrance. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. >> The the air curtain is an artifact from the prior tenant bellas put that up. >> Yeah, that's we don't use that. >> So we're happy to get rid of that. I
mean uh >> so that's been there. >> Yeah. at least since like 2012. >> Decade. >> I thought we identified it. >> Oh, I forgot about those. I didn't do a deep dive. >> Yeah, that's on me. I I thought we had identified that it was had been added.
>> If you look on Google Street View, it shows up in like 2012. >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. Thank you. >> Any other questions? All right. Any comments from the public online?
Thank you. All right. Now we can get into comments. >> I start with one technical comment. >> Okay. >> So, I hate to disagree with our code official because I need him to be my friend, especially I've got actually a meeting tomorrow trying to get some exceptions, but um uh
>> setting up setting yourself up here. >> I know I don't want to, you know, but um no, there's a section in the code. It's uh I had this up here right now. Um yeah, 3302.2 to uh basically forbids doors and windows from projecting or
opening into the public right away. Um, and I will say I never I only complained to you, Jeff. I never I wasn't complaining to you guys or the city other than Jeff, but I I've gotten smacked in the face by that door when it was first installed. Um, so it I know you guys think it looks better,
>> but it >> it's a wide door. It's wider than 3 ft and it swings way over the sidewalk all the way to where the tree pit is. And it um people just walk out of the restaurant and it if you're not paying attention, you get smacked. >> Yeah. Interesting. >> In fact, yeah, I told Mr. Fox that
>> when we first talked about I said that's probably the bigger headache is that even if the code official had said that they have a problem with it, I said the first person you hit, it's just going to be a you know PR nightmare kind of thing. So um >> I swear I wasn't a PR night to happen.
that off. I I I I just want to emphasize again is that um I don't know I don't know I know you've just read from the code but this would come from the code official >> and certainly from whatever ADA review if necessary. So I I I want to stay away
from that and make sure that we're clear that even if you all love this thing um if the life safety code people tell me it's a problem then it's a problem. But I don't know. Sorry, Carl. >> So, I guess I want to um just maybe help frame this. I'll try and take some notes
about what we talk about. I agree with Carl that if we can give any sort of constructive feedback to the applicant so that when they come back, they aren't just starting from scratch, that's that's a bonus. It'll help us out too um in the long run. And I also want to echo Jerry's sentiments that we do want to
support our businesses um up and down Main Street and make sure that they're successful as they can be because that's what keeps thriving city and especially keeping folks using our historic buildings. So, we appreciate that. Um, you know, if I want to, I'll just jump
into it and say I would prefer for us to go ahead and like approve this until April 1st as recommended in the staff report and then ask that it get taken down and that y'all bring us a formal um COA application with a real design so that we can do our thing and get into it
and get it something approved for you so that you've got your your plan moving forward. Um, I'd be willing to support either a permanent solution or a temporary seasonal solution, but I think it does need to be well thought out and
designed. I think to your point, like taking screws out of the same hole over and over is going to wallow that hole out and it won't hold anymore. So, possibly a track, some sort of track system that this thing can clip into and then, you know, has toggles or something
that um that would make it easier to remove and reinstall each year or each season would make sense. Um, and I do wonder whether something that would actually go across this whole opening. that one I'm grappling with a little bit because I recognize that that is a
historic step in to the the building entrances, but maybe that makes this feel like less of a one-off and you could have a better overall design there. Um, and then on the air curtain thing, yes, if you could take it down, I think
that'd be great. It does block the transom window over the door. So, I'll just set the stage with that and y'all jump on and tear it apart or agree or however you'all want to do. I would I would generally agree except I would also
um I guess encourage you to come up with a permanent solution for this u you know get a design professional to help you come up with a solution that because it's an issue in the summertime too I think don't you with air conditioning and and then you don't have to to worry
about it. >> Just a question about that. Would that be something that the owner of the property probably should do as opposed to the rent the renter? >> I think so. And that's kind of why I asked that question about whether the whole building was had a single owner, >> right? >> That then this feature would benefit
their multiple tenants, right? Um, I since I've got the mic real quick, and I may have said this, a possible uh something we would look for is maybe holding the face of this thing back, you know, even just an inch or two from the
original storefront plane is is uh something we do often when you're kind of adding on to a historic building. It lets it gives a sense of that original opening, right? So, just when you're talking to a designer, that's something you might mention. Yeah, you're you're
correct. We've um in fact talked to Mr. Fox about the the vestibule that was approved um at the Jefferson Theater which is deep inside that uh now that was for privacy and but it was a a full
glass uh wall and opening. Uh but I'm thinking about like the courthouse and the vestibule area there that that that they're enclosing in glass. So there is precedent for doing that and I think that idea of distinguishing it between the historic storefront um and we're
talking about that that length of that opening uh because this I think got two or three doors possibly four there um between those more formal storefronts. >> Would the door in that case still open out though? >> That would not be my call.
>> Yeah. I wonder if there's like a revolving door that could sliding door, you know, some sort of slider. I don't know. >> ADA is another thing that it's not our purview, but I do wonder how that's going to turn out if this ends up coming
in for a building permit. Um I speaking of the storefront, um I know there's some disagreement the staff report, but I this storefront I'm pretty certain is original. Um it's kind of like a folded I think it's bronze. The staff report says copper, but it's patinaed too dark
to be copper. At least the few pieces that are still not painted. >> Um, >> yeah. The understanding is the glaz the glass uh that's hard. The glass was replaced, but the framing okay, >> the metal is not >> and it matches what's happening on the adjacent building where um cake bloom
and the um the one that we just looked at for replacing the windows. Um, so my whatever they come up with, I guess I would just hope that it was something that doesn't destroy that storefront every time it attaches to it.
>> Um, cuz it is, although it's original, I think it's still in decent shape, is also got some places where there's some holes and stuff and it looks like it's it's pretty thin. I mean, you could damage it pretty easily. Um, so that would be my one caution is to, you know, if we're having them remove and replace something constantly that it's
>> they do that without >> That's why I was suggesting some sort of track system. >> Yeah. >> That you'd only screw into it once. >> Um, but are we I guess what they have in my understanding that that's not we don't
want to see that again. Um, I'm not sure how you do it better than what they have. I can't think of any other solution that would um I mean it's it's not the most attractive thing, but it's also I I can't think of anything
that would be lighter or I mean unless again you did some structural glass thing like at the Jefferson, but then you still have um at least for my preference, you still have a curtain in the front. Um I down at uh public they um well they
have a different situation where they have their own little al cove for their door but they've just strung a a heavy curtain across that and that shows up every winter and it seems to be um functional and doesn't cause a problem. So I don't know is it is this specific curtain that they have something that we
have a problem with or is it like what's our if they came back with this same thing what what would we do? in September, August. >> I have some thoughts that I could share. Um, similarly, I'm I'm so glad Smeirn
knows a restaurant on Main Street and um really want you all to succeed. So, I think whatever we suggest, you know, is is in um the spirit of wanting to help you out. Um but I would I would say materiality is a big one for me. I think
um Mr. Zeamer's comment about pushing it back um a few inches would be really helpful. Um, there's a kind of a jog on the top uh where the the top of the glass meets the ceiling. I think if you moved it back to that point of the jog,
that would be enough for me, sort of moving it beyond the sort of uh trim detail of that front facade. Um I you know on one hand I think the kind of galvanized alum or the aluminum um is
a little jarring next to the bronze, but it's also I I don't have a huge problem with it. Maybe something a darker color would blend a little bit better. Um and I also think a curtain could be nice there. There's something about the kind of continuation
of that glass facade that I find like a little bit confusing like it's too similar to the um existing glass. But if that trans I don't I don't love it looks like a shower curtain right now and it feels a little bit inappropriate
I think. Um, but if that was a nice heavy fabric material that um I know that could, you know, if it pushes back then you wouldn't get the same kind of rain damage there, but some sort of weatherproof um material that won't fade
too much in the sun. It's a tricky spot, you know, but um a fabric solution would be, I think, better than the the shower curtain. I think those are all really good points and I think it leads to the,
you know, the issue of creating guidelines for these things. I think it's really hard to do. I think it's um the reason why you need to come back and when you sub, you know, submit for a design, we have a chance to provide
these kinds of um solutions. it it's sort of place specific and um that's why it's difficult for me to say yes to this and no to that. Um, >> and I will support letting you keep this
till April the 1st and then ask you to to come back with uh designs and you can decide whether you want something permanent or that will be seasonal. Um,
but you've got heard some thoughts from the bar about those designs and I think it's fine to talk to staff, get a little bit further stuff and come back to us uh with your designs and I think we can
then work with you to get this done in a in a timely manner before it gets cold again. I >> actually have a question about the April 1st thing. I mean, does that work for your business? Is that going to impinge
in your your business? You know, I don't I can't think right off hand it April 1st versus April 15th, but I mean, I'm willing to make that date flexible to, you know, make sure that you don't lose any kind of business.
>> First, I think sounds good to me. >> Okay. >> And whether is I am trying to make more especially like dark and winter is >> super issue. >> Yeah, sure.
minus >> trying to work. I have one question and I want to just make sure my the design uh your point is the looks like
show curtain right >> other design looks good on this place or just curtain looks nice in the >> I mean if I had if if this was my project which is not but um I I think
you know I would consider doing a curtain the full length unless there's a reason you need the light coming in from the south. >> No, that's not the reason curtain. I bought the mini heavy curtains but this windy and then it's blows everywhere and
then >> it was not helpful but I it was my experience and also I that the idea was coming from the public I saw there and nothing but I don't know
are they having issues however but this is the only magnet keeps the straight doesn't mean push it and not very easy to open. But the thing is I can I would I'm happy to remove the
curtain if the best side to do stays there cuz even that's going to be very helpful as the wind is not coming from just one straight direction coming from everywhere and then
I can put the better air curtain on top of the door and at that point I I wouldn't need any door or curtain over there. >> When the door open comes from the side actually, not from the
>> Yes, it's the west, right? But to clarify, okay, you were saying you weren't saying no curtain, you were saying different curtain. >> Different curtain. Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Does that make sense? >> I understand. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Sorry. be clear. >> I think it can be as high as it needs to
be. This is very I'm respectly sounds like curtain very for personal I can find the mini curtains and would be hopefully the best I will try to do that
and also if you guys not okay with any curtains I'm okay to not anything >> right >> and just I think it's important to reiterate and I don't want to speak for you but it sounds like you know you're one of your your one of the ideas was
that um the point of the curtain is that it's a different material than the beautiful um glass facade that's existing. And our point is that we want to be sure that or as and as much as we can, we support u moves that preserve
that, you know, that accentuate that. And um and so one idea that came up here is a curtain is a different material set in it allows that beautiful facade to kind of remain. It um keeps people's attention on it. Um it provides you
maybe with a with an opportunity to kind of shield in a in a certain way that you know the wind and the in the cold weather. Um but I think again I think in my point of view is that you know the discussion about whether the left hand
panel is appropriate or not. Um I think it's you got to think about it comprehensively. you know, um it would be a good idea to maybe get with a designer and come up with a creative solution that's holistic um in that little temporary spot, but
also something that works with the greater hole, the you know, the beautiful existing facade. >> Can I just clarify? We're >> you're now sort of entertaining ideas of what might be considered acceptable at a
later date. Mhm. >> Not saying that. >> No, that's right. Um, and I think just to clarify, >> uh, I think there's support to suggest this get remove or to to request this to be removed either April 1st or if we
want to discuss a later date. I'm happy to entertain that. But my understanding is this gets removed. Mr. Fox, uh, just to be clear, we want this thing removed in its entirety. So, not just the curtain, the wall needs to come down, the transom over the curtain
needs to come down, like the frame needs to all come down and then we'll see the new design. >> Okay. Um, okay. Any other >> no >> thoughts or so? What is our motion? >> So, I think our motion is simply to Is
there discussion on the April 1st date? It sounded like the applicant was okay with that date. So, it's a couple three weeks away. Um, so I think that then >> only be the first bullet, >> right? Um,
having I can go ahead. Having considered the standards set forth within the city code, including the ADC district design guidelines, I moved to find the proposed seasonal vestibule is currently installed at 707-79 West Main Street, satisfies the B's criteria, and is compatible with this
property and other properties in this ADC district. Um, and that the B approves the application with the condition that by April 1st, 2026, the vestibule in its entirety be removed and impacts of its installation be repaired
and that any future vestibule be brought to this to the BAR with a new certificate of appropriateness application. >> I'll second that. >> Thank you. Any discussion? I think we've had a plenty. All right. Um, Mr. Tevin,
>> yes. >> Mr. Rosenthal, >> yes. >> Mr. Timberman, >> yes. >> Mr. Burl, >> hi. >> Mr. Bailey, >> yes. >> Mr. Schwarz, >> yes. >> I vote yes. All right. All clear. Good. Thank you much. Best of luck. >> Thank you.
>> We'll come see you. And if you all would mind um if you would read number bullet number two and you wish to direct staff that way I can tell our boss that
>> you all asked us to do that. >> Oh yes. Yeah. And Jeff, as part of that would be a survey of other vestibules and curtains >> that we know are installed. >> And I would >> you don't need to be >> okay. I would also say to them that they
could come up with two solutions, one a seasonal and one a permanent. Correct. >> That they could bring to us and then we could review that. So you want us to just read the So I I
propose the BR instruct staff to examine and submit a recommendation by September 1st, 2026 regarding how similar and related to temporary weather proofing components should be evaluated and considered consistent with the B criteria. These recommendations should include possible conditions of approval including suggested time periods when
temporary components will have permit will be will be permitted and uh andor the color, size, placement, even installation methods for such components. Is that what you wanted? >> And I I would add a clarification that uh the the guidance from um the building
code to to asssure the recommendations are consistent >> and to include guidance from the building code. >> You all agree with that? >> We do. >> Okay. Thanks. I >> and and one other thing is to make sure that they understand that the removal
now is total even though that's was in ours because he said it was it was but I heard him say he wanted to keep those >> that's why I clarified and then the motion says in its entirety >> this Friday it will be inspected by the zoning inspector and I will inform the
zoning inspector. So this will become a uh actually a somewhat of a condition of resolving the zoning uh violation. Uh so that was a a a remedy for the zoning violation was the COA. So the COA and
also a COA is a is a function of zoning. You all are, you know, in the you all are in our code of development. That's why we have a B on them. So that when someone is in violation of a COA, it is in fact a a
zoning violation. That's why they were cited for this uh because of the fact that a COA had not been >> and um yeah, my bad on that heater. I really thought but >> Carl and I emailed about it after. So >> you can never get
>> I'm gonna you know how many emails I get a week from people asking me do you know about and I'm gonna start sending it to >> Carl. I mean, the other the other >> I didn't mention him before, but like if they came up with a solution that actually screened all of those entrances and made sort of a uniform vestibule, he
potentially could bring heat in from the ceiling, >> heat the space. Who pays that heat bill? I don't know. But >> we just we staff was never able to answer these questions because there wasn't per there was >> I wonder what the dimension is of that recessed area. You know,
>> of course, yeah, >> may not have space for it in swinging door, >> right? Well, especially because you got doors one after the other outswinging. >> It's it's very tra that's why I mean I'm serious that maybe it's lighter might work. But >> I appreciate your patience and it's a
good indication of where you know I've said you know the B we're here to find you know you all staff find solutions and um and I appreciate you your patience with staff and explaining it and certainly working with the applicants. So thank you.
>> Sure. Next up, >> and I do think Mr. Timmerin's comment earlier about the fact that all these situations are different. Um, I think y'all helping us kind of with some guidelines is good, but we'd still want to see them each one.
Um, all right. Next up is 2083rd Street Northeast. >> So, this is one that very near and dear to Carl's heart. Um I used to every third or I guess every second Friday bang on that window um midnight and he'd
be back there hunched over his desk designing something. So uh but this is a COA request uh for alterations to the facade of this building at 208 uh 3rd Street Northeast. Um it's across Third
Street from the library. Um, best we could determine it was constructed in 1960. Um, there that photograph there is it's undated, but I'm guessing it's it's probably from the 70s. Wooling company was the original uh
tenant. Um, >> it was Maril Lynch eventually at one point. >> It was what? >> It was Maril Lynch, >> our first office in town. And um so it's a because of the year of the um the
survey for the downtown Charlottesville historic district and that's um actually or the Charlottesville historic district which is also called the Charlottesville Almoro Historic Courthouse. I don't like that one. So, the uh Charlottesville Historic District, but um this wasn't
old enough to be considered in that um in the National Register survey. And uh but it it really uh when you so you look around town trying to um curiously, we we looked at uh the building
next to over from VMDO. Um, and Kate said, "Well, look, these it's sort of reflecting these uh Williamsburgesque windows on there." And then we found an old photograph of that. It was big plate glass. So, um, but but
to the extent we can discern, what you're looking at is uh at least as far as the and it is 25 light. We counted it one day and came up with 20. An hour later, we came up with 25. So, it's checking for sanity, but the 25 light um
windows are original. The the trim on the outside, the pilers, uh the paneling, uh everything appears to be uh what you see in this photograph. Um on the there have been on either side of
the entry door, uh all sconces have been added. Um and it appears that above the the the transom some crown molding has been installed over the trim. Um but otherwise uh that the frame and the transom appear to be original. The door
has been replaced and the request is to um to change uh the glazing on the the storefronts to full lights uh with with the four u lights above. Uh the
non-historic doors are going to remain, the trans will remain. Uh the light uh the wall sconces will be changed out and then on either side of the um that entrance out cove uh new windows will be installed in the wall and um and then at
some point uh we don't have the details on it but the um the what do you call that? the the floor >> threshold >> coming at the threshold coming up to it's called the threshold threshold right at the door but I guess so they want to tile that
>> um floor and I don't have uh any information on that but um I probably will review that administratively as long as it's not a sign or anything too garish unless you all have some feelings about it. the um
we were torn on the um replacement of these windows. Um you know on one side it it really is a characteristic of it and it is part of the original building. Um on the other it's uh this is somewhat similar to Valley Road. This is a
adaptive reuse of a rather unforgettable building. So, um there there's some pros and cons to it. Um I think that if I if we rigidly want to apply the guidelines, we would not change out the windows. Um
however, given the age of this, I think um that as long as we were able to, you document some photographs, some measurements showing what what was there and that that's retained if someone ever wanted to um put the windows back in.
Again, the the changing the windows does not uh prohibit that change in the future. Um, of course, the the thing about VLT, the glass being clear. Um, we also recommend a condition that it's always an opportunity building like this
to um require that they remove this to the extent possible wires, cables, conduits, and there's a lot of them on the the south side of the building uh to clean that up. Um on the north side of the building um there's some trash
receptacles that are kept there on the side. Would recommend putting some screening up for that. And then as I said, anything uh allow us to take a look at the tile. Um unless you all had any reservations about that. So um that's where we stand
on it. Uh do you have any questions? Yeah, the history said that there was a renovation in 1968. Is there any way to know whether Do we have any photos before or after that? Okay.
>> Just curious. >> And are they taking out these 25 panes on each side because they are energy inefficient? >> I don't know. >> The applicant is here. certainly talk with her.
>> All right. So, yeah, come on up. >> Hi. >> Hello. >> Um, so I am the new owner of this building, Jennifer Glickman. And the purpose and intent of the future use is to be an interior design studio. I'm an
interior designer and then also a retail space for home wares. So, the purpose of opening up the two front windows is to display items that I'll be selling. Okay. Thank you.
All right. Any any other Did you want to Is that all? Okay. Um All right. Uh any questions from the public either here or online? >> No, online. >> All right. Questions from the BA. >> I Yeah, sure. Um I think staff had asked
about the or mentioned the trash receptacles. Did that fence finally fall down or what's >> the trash receptacles? >> Yeah. Is that even on your property? >> No. I did have a survey conducted >> and um I do not own any property outside
of the actual footprint of the building. >> All right. So that's the neighbors. >> Yes. >> Okay. That makes that easy. >> Okay. >> Should I just hang? >> Yeah. Yeah. Just hang. Any objection to removing abandoned wiring or conduit on
the building? >> No. There's also some um unsavory graffiti on one side that we plan to clean up as well. >> You're welcome to do that without our approval. >> Okay. >> In fact, even removing the wiring probably doesn't require our approval
either. >> Okay. Yeah. The intent is to make this a charming destination. We don't have parking. So, I want to make this feel warm and welcoming so that people want to come visit. So, however I can improve the um appeal of the exterior of the
building while maintaining the historical integrity is the goal. >> Good. >> So, you have one one paint color selected for the entire front. Um it looks like the doors are a little lighter than but maybe that's just the
rendering. It's just um a the rendering, but it's a fair ball single color. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. I would just offer this one. Paint color. That's something staff can approve. So, if they were, you know, Miss Glickman came in this fall and
wanted to change the colors, I would take a look at it and weigh it. I used to be adamantly against that sort of color palette until um I don't know maybe five or six years ago Robert Watkins shared with me an image from
Williamsburg and said so you don't like this and in Williamsburg this is very much uh a a common color palette. So I had to yield on that. Um but I would I would also yield to you all if you feel
strongly but I otherwise Don't want to upset my colleague from William and Mary. >> And what is the tile that you were proposing for the entrance way? >> Yeah. So, I've been working with Sarah Sand tile on appropriate materials that
withstand would withstand weather, but most of all the salt. Um because the salt has eroded the um it's hard to see in this rendering, but the brick below the wood portion of the facade. So, we've been repointing that. >> Um, you could actually see through some
of the former mortar locations um into the interior of the building. >> So, we're working um with Sarah Sand Tile to look at some natural stone materials and they would be mosaic in size, smaller in size um to prevent slippage.
>> And it's going to be sort of neutral as shown here. Well, I um I haven't presented that yet, but would explore um a traditional pattern uh maybe a border, if you will, around the offset of the interior of the
perimeter. So, maybe two materials, but I could present an actual rendering. >> Yeah, I don't I don't think that's that's something I'm very comfortable looking at unless it comes in with uh you know, dancing pickles or something, but um you know, that would be fun. It's
possible. It's possible. You never know. >> You think you're going to put a sign up somewhere? >> Yeah, I'm um I wasn't sure if I submit that separately to a separate person. Okay. Um but the hope was uh potentially two locations. One is above the door on
the um wood portion of the facade, similar to the historic image that you had up a moment ago. And then potentially something etched onto the glass. Very subtle, maybe a white or gold.
Our sign sign rags are a little funky, so let's talk about that. >> Okay, certainly. >> And is there a flat roof on this? >> There is a flat roof. It's uh recessed below um the front facade. >> And is your HVAC up on the roof?
>> Yes, the HVAC is up on the roof. So, we are planning to remove the current defunct HVAC unit that's there and replace um with a working new HVAC unit. >> And I I think our regs say that that
needs to be screened. >> Yeah. Well, that's that's a >> yeah, that's something we'll take care of if they um the new ordinance requires a rooftop. But with a a parapit wall like that, it's likely not an issue. I think you probably
>> I mean, if if the screening if if currently you can't see the unit from the street, >> but you could see the screening, then I would >> I would recommend not doing the screening. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Our new HVAC unit will be much smaller. >> Love it. than the current one. Um my
contractor who's on Zoom um said that the current HVAC unit that's sitting on the roof was installed um it it is above and beyond what is needed for that space. >> I was wondering if you could talk us through um your
decision to get rid of the divided lights just um like explain to us why that is bad for your business. are needed. >> Certainly. Um I hope to bring my clients into this space but also welcome people
who happen to be strolling around the downtown mall on a nice afternoon. So on the interior of the space on both the left and right side um we are building platforms and on top of the platforms I'll have vignettes of furniture, decorative objects, things like that. So
just welcoming warm scenes to draw people inside and having the mountains as they are today block a lot of that view. So the hope is to really open that up and draw your eyes inside and just welcome people in. >> Okay. Thanks.
Am >> I remembering correctly that if you push even lightly on that window, it is very mobile. >> Yes. So um we are replacing the glass. Um, >> I mean, getting rid of those muttons and everything would you'd have a much more
stable like it's kind of falling apart, isn't it? >> A lot of it's falling apart. Yeah. Gota >> and the doors we would replace also, which are um the one on the left is broken. >> Wow. So, sorry. Is that in the
application? >> Nope. Don't think so. >> No, it's not. So it could be have been uh something that we needed to figure out afterwards and newly determined >> planning to replace both doors. >> Yes. >> Both doors and matching set.
>> So you'd replace both of them? >> I'm going somewhere with this. >> Yes. >> Sorry. The structural integrity of the doors has been compromised. They've been kicked in during the >> Sure. So where where I was going was if you're going to replace them both anyways, would you consider replacing them back to the original design? Um
yes, something very similar with glass above. Um I hope to keep because one of the thoughts was to keep the mail slot at its current location so that it's usable for the male person. >> So there's a photo that's called Shapiro
office August 1974 which I would venture to guess maybe those are the original doors. Um, just basically got a single panel >> in the lower portion of the door. Still glazed above, but they are slightly different than >> Do you have that one on this slideshow?
>> Yeah, sorry. >> They're pretty handsome. >> Yeah, they're a door that you can get pretty easily made to look like that. That's what >> probably have a male slot in it. I wouldn't object to that. >> Yeah. So, I guess I'm just, you know, if you
are planning to replace them anyways, why not go back to the historic door? >> Certainly. Yeah, >> we can do that. >> Um, okay. Uh, while she's looking for that, any other questions,
are you going to be using I'm assuming insulated glass? >> Yes, insulated glass. So, we do have a a I guess a requirement that there's spacer bars that it's an SDL. >> Um, >> if there Yeah, if it's if it's an
applied grill. Uh, yes, there should be spacer bar and must be and um >> yeah, these will be a single I mean, these aren't going to be true divided lights. These will be >> there are specs that I printed that there's today. They actually have them, Jeff. there. I've made a copy for
everyone. >> How are they in the >> putting something on my desk is uh putting something on my desk. >> I I think the the important thing uh particularly with the large um sash is
is the that this is a true storefront and this is where that uh that clear glass specification becomes important. There we go. >> And the the clear glass. >> Yeah, this is perfect. >> Definition is that >> that's that's why
>> that's why we want the visual visible light trans is that it's it's not a mirror that there's it's the high VLT. It's it's clear glass and and it's what uh for a storefront type of thing. So it's not
when people are walking outside, they're not looking in a mirror. They're actually seeing through the glass. So that higher VT. Now we have as a matter of uh guidance established uh 70% VT as clear glass, but there is some flexibility in that. But you might if
you could ask uh Carvin what they're what they can what the BLT on is that. >> Okay. we can let us know please. >> Yes, we want it as transparent as possible also because um those are the two main windows in the whole space. So
they really bring the only natural the main natural light in through the space. >> So this um um touch sheet has uh eight lights on the transom of the big windows whereas the renderings we see are four. Um
>> there's an alter. >> No, you're sorry. It's fine. I have two cups. >> So we clarify that. >> Oh, >> okay. So which is it? >> So well we were looking at both. So we're open to both options. Um we have explored I should leave it at
that. We've explored many renderings and um are open to both options. >> And do you have a preference the eight or the four? >> The one that's in the cut sheet. The eight. >> Yeah, >> this one. This one.
>> Could she? >> Really? Okay. >> I think it's going to be closer to the transom of the above the doors. >> All right. Um, any more questions? >> Sorry. We go to comments.
Any comments from the public or online? >> No. No. >> Okay. Now we can jump in. >> Um I guess uh did anybody have thoughts on the window the proposed two new windows on the sort of sidewalls of the
al cove or objections? >> I think conceptually it's a good idea. Um, I I am I'm looking at the rendering and your cut sheet and I'm seeing like two different situations.
I think it in in the rendering I'm seeing like the bottom bar of the divided light portion higher than the I I guess it would be helpful to see elevations of of this straight on and and um or or hear your intention. Um,
are those windows supposed to be the same height with the same, you know, transom top being the same dimension? I I think it would be better to if they matched like in this in this version. You see how the bottom of the divided light
portion is higher than the sidewall and then that's different than the door >> head. If those if we could have some um >> Exactly. some consistency that'd be great. >> Yes. um there will be um it's more it's
better reflected in the cut sheets >> um that >> those lines will be consistent. >> Um we were testing out AI rendering in this instance. So it's not as successful as we hoped.
>> Sure. >> Yeah. I think to have a datam line that is the top of the door that just tracks >> Yes. >> would probably be the cleanest So the the current um what's currently
in the transom is the six lights which are in the old photograph. So this is a or or is the intent to change I thought the transom was staying the same or is it >> it is there's a note that says >> Yeah. >> So >> okay
>> from applicant no chance no change to transom window. >> Yeah that's a that's a six light. Yeah, >> actually that data line might be too low on the front. >> Yeah, >> now that I look at it, >> yeah, I don't think it needs to match up
with the door transom, but it >> if all the windows were the same. >> Yes, >> true. >> Agreed. Let's see. It also looks like your cut sheet says the windows are coconut cream clad sash
exterior, but you're showing a blue the blue painted. Are you planning to paint the cladding? >> We are. They're paintable. Yes. >> Okay. >> So, I guess I'll just go ahead. Um, I can get behind some of this proposal.
I can get behind the tile on the floor. I can be get behind the sconce lights. I can definitely get behind the replacing of the doors uh with original. I can get behind the walls, the new windows in the al cove walls. I can't get behind replacing the big windows myself. Um,
just because I think they are kind of one of the major character defining features of this building. um along with maybe the pilasters. The other than that, there's not much else going for this this particular building. Um that's just where I stand. You know, we're a
board. There's a panel. So, I may get outvoted. Um but I just find it hard to to um agree to replace what's as far as we can tell the original windows. They I mean, I think they are kind of a storefront. um you know they're large
even if they've got muttons breaking it up and so I do think you could still still kind of have your vignettes and whatnot um personally but so that's just where I am. I also wouldn't mind breaking up the color a little bit, but instead of all
monochromatic, maybe highlighting the pyers or something like that would be fun. But anyway, so that's great. I guess I disagree with my colleague here. I think that getting rid of those would be fine. There was originally an office building and it's now going to be
a storefront and I think that uh the idea of displaying your wares is exactly what you need to do and this would definitely get in the way. If you go to this original Walston company issue clearly, you know, they have blinds in the window. They didn't intend for people to look in necessarily. So, I I
think that uh the design is appropriate actually for what you're intending to to reuse this. Sadly, rather undistinguished building. Perhaps you can improve it. I don't I don't think the building's
precious enough to warrant preservation of the windows. Um I mean, it's not like they don't represent handcraft. didn't represent something that can't be replaced. >> Um so in that sense I'm I'm okay with a replacement.
>> Yeah, I agree with my colleagues on the right here. >> Um in the staff report we we noted that you know when we were we were looking at similar buildings uh we immediately Googled drove over down High Street and that seems to be what this is
representative of uh those singlestory small commercial buildings you see there. So, >> I tend to agree. I think forum follows function in this case and it's going to be a boon for you to have a large
storefront window. What I will say is that I would like to see and act I don't know who brought up the idea of bringing it was it you thought about bringing up an elevation. >> Yeah, >> I think it'd be good for you to show a true elevation because especially now we know that's an AI rendering. Who knows what is going to
come. Is it going to be, you know, eight panes? Is it gonna be seven panes? >> Sure. >> And that stuff does tend to make a difference, those details, whether you align whether we decide that it's a good idea to align the door, the head of the door with the bottom of the window or not. Um, we won't know until we see it
as a building elevation. So, I think I'd like to see that just to make sure it's, you know, um, we don't miss anything. You don't miss anything your new design. I think it'd be worth worth the effort. and at the same time bring back from
Sarasan some of your potential designs. >> But we're not asking that she reapply. >> Uh well, I don't know. >> I don't know. >> We may ask for So, so, you know, there's a couple different ways this can go. We can either vote for approval kind of
asis or with conditions. We can deny it, which doesn't sound like that's going to happen. Um, we can you can request a deferral, which means you've got your own timeline to bring it back to us, or we can request a deferral, which means you have to bring it back to us within a
month. Um, I think that's right, Jeff. Um, so just letting you know kind of the next steps, what we'll shake out here in a minute, but did you have some comments before we get there? Um, I I think um I'm in support of the the
project. Um, I think it would be important to see the elevations. Um, but I'm also maybe comfortable saying if the windows are the same height and the mountains are continuous across the multiple units, window units, I might
not need to see it again, I think. Um, but I do see in your cut sheet again the windows are different sizes. the vertical sizes. So, um maybe that's a resubmitt to Jeff that he can >> it to ask about that because I noticed
that, but I was assuming it's cuz the um the window on the bottom has a little frame around it while the one on the top doesn't. Is that what's causing the difference? And one of them is um 78 and 58 inches tall and the other one is 81
and 916 inches tall. So, there's there's about three inches there. that's different. Is that because of extra frame material or is the window actually >> I believe there was um a construction influence on that and I'd have to defer
to my contractor on why that was, but I can certainly um come back to that with that response. >> It looks like the ceiling in the al cove is a little lower than the bottom of the intabe. So you can't quite >> break the line,
>> right? The window is aligning with the table at the front. Yeah, >> but agreed. The goal is to align every >> Yeah. >> line as much as possible. >> I think that horizontal line of uh the big picture unit, which is the bottom of
the transom, so to speak, at the picture unit should wrap the corner. >> Yes. Can you ask what your timeline is? >> Um, as soon as possible, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I just didn't know. I mean, it's
trying to gauge how much we want to see this again or if it's just we put conditions on. >> Do you think you could come back to us with elevations and the answers to these questions at the next meeting?
I mean, I would I would offer if it seems that the most something with the longest lead time is ordering these windows. Um, so if there is something that you would like to see modified in the interest of helping the applicant, it would be great to
articulate that. Um, but otherwise, >> can we put conditions on it that you could then approve? >> Yeah. >> Before the next meeting. >> Okay. just as soon as those conditions are met. >> Yeah. And I mean, this is where I wish we had a our big whiteboard and yeah, you could just So, if there's something
some alignment that you would like to see, um, you know, doodle it for me and we can all agree on it. Um, >> I think it's just a horizontal m. >> Yeah. And this AI image is showing a big mullion in between, but that's not
what's happening on that side window. It's It's going to be just a mutton like the >> the applicants contractor is online and available to answer questions. >> All right. So So I can So what you're looking at is we've got this line.
>> Mhm. Should line up with >> on those we've got in the large windows and then of course we've got that well the spring line whatever uh there at the door uh between door and transom. So is the intent to seek some alignment of that? I think the door is never going to
align. >> I think the driver might be the ceiling height of the al cove. >> If the exterior windows are taller, then you're going to need to drop this this line down a little bit. Sorry, to
wherever that ends up, >> but that line could conceivably align >> or the other way around. >> Or the other way around. >> Um they're not going to be the same height. >> And then the window >> here. You want the window. >> You want the bottom of that. You want that horizontal line on the track. I think >> here's my thing. I I don't I don't think
we're the designers. I think all I want to see is what the thing what I want I want somebody who's design who's going to build it to show me what it's going to be, you know? So, because right now we don't know and and so I think it would behoove you to have a construction
document that clearly delineates what the windows are going to be like and what the intention is. >> Yeah. So, I'm comfortable. I mean, primarily, you're okay with replacing the two storefronts and with installing a window
on either side of the door. What the question is is that we're clear on with that that that mutton spring line. And if the applicant uh can demonstrate what that alignment is, um I can circulate
that to you all again cuz you've you've you seem prepared to approve uh the the the COA. You you're you're you are fine with these alterations. There's a detail that you want some clarification on. um that would not it's not as if um cuz I I
won't sign off on the building permit until or the COA until we're comfortable with this but it is we have in the past asked for some clarification that has been provided after the fact. So as long as that's stated clearly I think in your condition and that you express which is
it that you prefer as the result and that and instruct staff to confirm that I don't have any problem with that responsibility. The contractor for the project has his hand raised. >> Oh, okay. >> Great. Then let him speak. >> Speak. >> Hey, Scott, if you can hear us, just
unmute if you can to go ahead and comment, please. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes. Yep. Can >> y >> Yes. Um the the answer on the size of the windows, the original um frame on the front is staying in. We're just
replacing the sash and that's why the difference looks they're not the same size on the drawings. Um they will actually be the same size on when you look at this the the lines will all line up. the the cell will line up and the top line and the top line and
the and the um >> I see >> and the transoms will line up on the windows. The door is completely different cuz it's a door. >> Um it's I was trying to line the windows up because in the room you're looking at the windows.
Um the doors are a nylite door. um similar to what was there originally, but I think it's a two panel underneath um just because that's a would be a custom door then
and they're like 10 times as much st custom door made with a single panel underneath. Um other than that, as far as the windows go, they will look exactly the same height inside and out. It's just we're replacing the sash, not the not
the window frame on the other one. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and they will have a a bar between the the SDLs.
That's the standard for us. And so that's what makes if you looking at the drawings, they just look different cuz it's a it's the height of the window on the inside and the front of the window slides down a little bit because it's that has a fall on the sill
on the original window. The actual window itself is exactly the same size and and the transom's the same size. So this way >> can I am I correct in reading this as
well where the intent is this sill line is maintained so that >> yes >> lines maintain then >> yes >> we're not the height and dimension of the door then there's this the top of this sash >> no
>> that can't be replicated in here but >> yes it can it is the same >> oh there is enough height there okay >> yes there is and enough. The only thing we're we're not taking the original window to fill out cuz the this I didn't want to take I used to do historic preservation so I knew there was going
to be some issues. Um I did that in around Caroline County all over King George and all that. So we duplicated the exact size. Um height the width is obviously a lot narrower because it's fitting in the in the al code
and and so everything else will line up. So the spring line of the window. >> Yes. >> That's what I mean. You all you want to continue that line? >> It already does. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Is what he's saying. >> The spring line will be the same all the
way around except for the door is because it's only a 68 door and it's a 19 in >> right >> um light um above it. The transom, it's going to be a different height there. But when you're in each room on the interior, those like those windows,
everything lines up. >> Okay. >> Cuz the original windows didn't line up with the door either. So, and the light configuration of that transom is exactly what's on those details that you have of the windows.
That's the actual order. So that that gives you I don't remember how many lights it is, but it's more than what's I think. I think six lights. Yes. >> Okay. Somebody want to make a motion or do y'all want to see it again? Or I
guess we'll it sounds like possibly >> this some more flushed out design would get submitted to Jeff for his review and circulation and cloff >> just to verify >> verification. Thank you. That's the
word. And that we'd like to I'll just go I'm not going to make the motion but just to remind folks to Never mind. You got tile in here. Go ahead somebody. >> I'll do it. Uh, having considered the standards set forth within the city code, including
the ADC district design guidelines, I move to find the proposed window replacements and alterations at 208 3rd Street Northeast, satisfies the bar's criteria and is compatible with this property, other properties in the ADC
district, and that the bar approves the application as submitted with the following. Applicant will work with staff to document the existing glazing widths profiles of the 25 light windows. Glass have
a VT of not less than 70%. The orphaned all orphaned service lines, cables, wires, and unnecessary attachments on the exterior of the building are removed. >> Uh scratch. >> We don't do that. and that the staff
review and approve the tile for the al cove. And that the staff also get a elevation to pass to the bar for its approval. uh
>> as this goes forward for verification >> verifation >> verification >> can I ask offer one um caveat and that is on the um on the clear glass definition we refer to our um I don't remember the
date of the guidance uh the bar's 2018 guidance on the definition of clear glass that allows some flexibility not I mean 70%'s pretty high Um, and it's not always immediately available. So
sometimes you might end up with 65 or 68, but there that was acknowledged in the in that uh direction. So if you can amend it to say that the glass meet the 2018 standards uh for clear glass
>> policy. Yeah. >> In the policy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a it is a clear glass with um but it'll be a low E glass also. moved up and fade everything out in that building, but um it should be about as
clear as any glass you've seen anywhere. >> I think Mr. Bailey seconded. >> Yes. Second. >> Thank you. All right, we'll call a vote. Mr. Schwarz, >> yes. >> Mr. Bailey, >> yes. >> Mr. Burl, >> yes. >> Mr. Timberman, >> yes. >> Mr. Rosenthal, >> yes. >> Miss Ta,
>> yes. >> I vote no. But the motion passes, so congratulations and good luck. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. All right. That's all of our new business and
other business. We have staff discussion. Um preservation month events. >> All right. Very quickly. And I I did I I expected Carl to be just far more emotional about that one.
I thought he lived there for several years. >> If Mrs. Brickman wanted to take a match to that building supported it. All right. So, very quickly, um, one and it just ignore what's on here. U one, we
have advertised for right now. The, uh, L landscape architect position. We've received um some applicants. Uh, but council's not going to make I thought we had at least one. >> No chance. >> They bailed.
>> Didn't receive anything. Never got a reply email. >> Oh, well, council's not going to make >> There was There was a question from someone I know actually about not the link not working. >> Yeah. >> Did you see that? >> I did. >> And Okay. >> Yes. So, um I was told by clerk of
council that they were in the process of opening up the application period and so they had not yet activated the bar link. Um but that is active and it is available in the dropown menu. I confirmed it. >> So, >> but I don't think it was functioning
>> correct. Yes. I don't know how long it was not. >> Do we need to like somehow renotify the people who expressed interest? >> I mean I I did reach out. Um but I think that's Yes. >> Yes. We have an opening dead uh deadline that is May 1st
>> and um council makes appointments on a quarterly basis. Uh I inquired if if when there was a vacancy uh due to someone stepping down if if they could expedite that, but it's it appears that the policy is to do that on a quarterly basis um regardless of when someone has
stepped down. uh on and then I'm going to defer to Kate, but on the 218 West Market Street cultural resource assessment um you didn't have to read it, but I didn't know if anybody did or had any questions, but uh uh staff finds
that that satisfies uh one of the conditions of the COA for 218 West Market. And I mean, unless anybody had any reservations or questions, uh that then would be added to the BA archive. Um, again, meeting the condition of the COA.
>> Wait, what are you talking? >> I'm so confused. What are we talking about? >> Are you looking at what says staff discussion? >> I thought we were talking about preservation month. >> We will. >> So, you're skipping around, >> right? >> 21 West Marget Street. >> We will circulate that to the bar.
>> Oh, I thought Okay, my bad. I thought that was uh we included in a link. No. All right. We will include that. We'll circulate that. Um and is it they did complete a um uh phase one of the site
at 218 West Market um the site of the the Arville lodger uh and where the new hotel will go. So um and then on on said about the landscape architect. Uh I
just wanted to bring you up to speed on the fountains quickly. Um the with Kate and I were on a very long phone call a couple of weeks ago um with about with a who's who of people in the
city talking about efforts to free the fountain. Um there continue to be concerns expressed um by the ADA coordinator and the city's uh risk manager. So, uh, the conclusion of that meeting was, uh, the parks and wreck was
going to retain a qualified, um, uh, designer, uh, qualified in in in ADA and accessibility issues to evaluate, um, what options were available, uh, or might be available in order to remove
the barriers around the fountains. So, I I don't have any updates on that. Uh but I did appreciate again your patience and help the last time we talked about it, but uh we'll have to wait and see what happens. >> Question on that. >> Yeah. >> Is there any So is this a design
professional? >> This is a um I don't have the print out with me. It is someone with this is a design experience or design professional that does ADA. >> Sure. I guess where I'm wondering is
shouldn't there also be someone on the team who's either, you know, a landscape architect and also is first in historic sites because it's technically it's a historic site. And so >> I can offer what I can, but this is um >> our recommend my recommendation would be that someone with that experience also
be included. It's uh the the big hangup is that um sort of the disagreement on um uh whether the various solutions that have been proposed um meet ADA or or or risk
analysis. So I think that's what they're asking someone is that do these things that have been proposed these ideas that been floated are any of them viable relative to these concerns? So, um I'll report back to you as we move forward on that.
>> Um and then, um >> one quick one going back to the 218 West Market. Is any of this holding up the that project? Okay. >> No, no, you we're we're we're in good shape there. And then um so that's the
stuff that I had on here. Uh and uh I think as far as the mall 50th, there was had been discussion I had been asked about installing a plaque uh similar to the one that the 25th anniversary plaque um installing it on one of the granite
uh peers there next to the central fountain. Um because it would be installing something permanently onto uh an element part of the original design. I I said that it was that it was
appropriate to take it to uh the BAR um unless there was direction from council or the city manager's office to but I would not I wasn't willing to um to okay that um without you all uh addressing it formally. So So I'll we'll see where
that goes. I I I suspect you all don't have any issue with it. Um I should talk to Brett Gastinger about it. He goes, "Well, we have lots of peers." So, I guess every 25 years we'll be putting another plaque uh up. >> So, we're not replacing it. We're actually just adding another one. >> It would be adding another one. Address
the 50th. Um I did recommend that the text the text refer to uh Halpern and the design and and the importance of the design, but um I'm not a big fan of black to me. But >> so um >> can we put do we do we have a National
Historic Landmark plaque that we could put up somewhere? Somebody installed one good >> on the wall of the draft house. Um if you we can look at it this evening. U I don't uh I don't know who. I haven't been able to determine that. I have been
asked about installing a plaque and there is a standard plaque. Um it just would be a matter of where and in what manner. Uh I mean they're little 8 by10 plaques. Um I have no problem doing it. The friends of Charlottesville will ask me about doing it. Um, but we certainly
can. Um, last thing and then I'm going to hand it over to Kate for preservation month. The um conversation down the hall after you all left. Um, the engineer and that that's the engineering firm hired
to design uh the crossing. Um, not comfortable with the monolithic pavers. Um although when I went back again there's so there's two rows. One is the 2x two and the other is
the 12 by I'm sorry the twoft x two foot and one is twoft by 1 ft. Um he said he might be comfortable okay with the 12x 24 but that the twoft x2 ft um he just wasn't convinced that they
would be um uh would hold up on in traffic. So the question that they asked me they're still they were still debating it. They may still be down there now. The question they asked me was if if with the BA um were you all if
if the engineer felt strong about going with the uh the smaller modules um and you know and maybe that's the 12x 24 on one and then the the the 4x8 uh mod you
know essentially bricks on another band. um if you had or I can circulate this since this isn't a decision. I can certainly circulate some more information. Uh we kind of discuss it online if you want. But um um
so that's where the engineer just wasn't comfortable. He feels that it'll uh the large paper will fracture. So I guess let's just leave it at that and let me let me communicate with you on email. I mean, is he saying that the 12x 24 does work or doesn't work?
>> He's the the the answer was that 2T x two foot, >> right? >> Not going to work. 12 by 20 12 in x 24 in more comfortable with preference for a 4x 4 in by 8 in modu modular brick. Um
we can however um the I have those pieces they left. They're heavy. Um, but we can cart them down the mall. They did ask if that by the end of this week um the the color schemes that are available in those two if we would we walk down
and take a look at them. So um I Kate and I'll have to figure out how to wheelbarrow those down but and maybe we find a time that you all can look at it. Um >> I'd be happy to do that sometime this week just to look at. >> So that's a little bit of an update on that. Now, now Kate, talk about
preservation month or week or is it afternoon? >> Uh, so this idea is actually um a part of our intern Sarah who's been working with us since last October. Um, she knew very early on. This is something I always wanted to do since I began with
the city. Um, it's just that staff do often is told, you know, hey, you have capacity. And so with her help, um, she's organized a preservation event for the city, open to the public. It's on May 5th. Um, and we've kicked around an idea of a like more professionalgeeared
session um, separately and then before that, so it was during the workday. Um, not quite sure where that status is sound. I know Jeff had mentioned having some sort of like round table discussion or just to check in to talk about what we've all been up to. Um but what I do know is
that we've confirmed um at City Space on May 5th, it's a Tuesday from 5 to 7:30 um the the city has opened up City Space to the public to have all sorts of organizers and sponsors there um to celebrate preservation um which is the
same week as the National Preservation Month. And Sarah, do you want to talk about your sponsors or adventures you've found connected with? Hi guys. Um I'm really excited about um our preservation fair that's happening.
If you guys can make it, that would be great. We'd love to see you. Um so far we have a few booth stations. So, the thought is from 5 to 5:30 there's going to be kind of a registration, getting
people in, seeing who's here, and then time for people to grab some food and mingle. And then from 5:30 to 7, we're planning to have openhouse style booths. So, one table we're planning to have is the historical society having a research
table so people can learn how to do property research or genealogy research, stuff like that. Um, we're also working with our GIS specialist in NBS to
um work on a story map or how people can create story maps for their families. Um, we're also trying to have a fun station. Right now, the idea is to do a guess the photo, when it was taken or what the location is, and hopefully
there are prizes to distribute. Um, we also are planning to have a tax credits booth, so anyone interested in that would be able to talk to a specialist. Um, hopefully someone from DHR.
We are planning on that. Um we are also getting involvement from the historic resources committee um so that people from their group can come and talk to people about how to join what the
historic resources committee does. Um, we are also working with Parks and Wreck, specifically Steve Gaines about tree preservation on the downtown mall and how they're going to restore or not restore but figure out different ways to
use wood from uh the trees on the mall. And lastly, we are hoping to get someone from transportation to come out um and talk about the overlap between transportation infrastructure and
historic preservation. So really, this is just a chance for the public to get to know more about what our wonderful historic preservation division does, who they collaborate with, and a chance for
the public to learn just more about the history of Charlottesville and exciting ways that they can get involved or do their own research, stuff like that. So, yeah. >> Awesome. Thank you very much. And Sarah, you have like a volunteer
sign up form as well, right? >> Yes. So if anyone from V would like to volunteer for this event, come out. Um I Kate, is it easiest if you circul? Yeah, Kate will circulate a RSVP list um for
any volunteers. >> I volunteer our chairman. >> So >> congratulations. So the part the one of the parts >> I'd encourage everyone to attend. >> Well, >> so what um I've been discussing with
Kate and Sarah is that the that early part of the day is an opportunity for uh an open house for design review. And so certainly anybody's welcome, but that we um would put the word out to local
builders, architects, etc., etc., etc. and and um to come and brief presentation about the design review process and certainly couple B members would be welcome for any questions things like that and then then switch
into the uh later piece um and something you know with stations or speakers but we do know that um the uh building code The plan review department has had a series of open houses uh that
have been very successful in in you know just meet and greet. Here's who we are if you're going to be do if you're going to be doing something you know here's who you're talking to and and we felt like something like that would be necessary for for preservation design staff now. So we could incorporate that
into this or or do something at another time. But um and the idea being at the end of the day would be a good time for folks in town that come to you all and come to us uh would be available for an hour or so for a for an introduction to
that process. So try to create informed consumers if you will. >> Uh Jeff, I've got a few questions about things that have come to us and where they are now. the stuff at the West Haven. It appears the city is going
ahead and redeveloping West Haven and the project that was brought to us I assume is dead. >> No. >> Okay. >> We um I don't know what the status is, but I I would not characterize it as
dead. Um I I I I only know that that there continues to be discussions. I I've heard that they had met with people in the community. I don't know to what extent, but I have not heard that the project has gone away. Now, as far
as what's going on at West Haven, yeah, that is being reviewed and hopefully that, you know, there's funding um to for the city to to move forward with that and whatever the mechanism is for that, I hope that moves quickly. >> What is happening with the mark? Um
the it will be going to council. We have um a um tenative date of May 4th. >> May 4th. >> Thought it was the 18th. >> So now I got two nights in a row. I guess
>> you don't have to go. You you can you can >> So that is that is the tenative right now. Now if um >> well where my Darth V >> I don't estab I don't >> I don't set council's no agenda but
that's what I now I'm preparing um uh information for. >> Okay. And I I saw that he was trying to change stuff and big make big profiters to the city. >> I don't I not involved in those discussions. >> Okay. I mean that was just public stuff
that from Sean Tubs. I just had to assume it was public knowledge. >> Uh yeah, I I mean I it might be I don't I'm not involved in discussions that are going on right now. I I um >> Yeah, I hear things too, but I but I'm
not involved in those. >> We had denied the demo of the historic house of the library and the city upheld us. What's the status on that? >> So where it stands is as far as
as I can comment on is that uh city council and I don't recall the date um uh denied the COA and um the owner did not uh seek remedy the courts >> sorry
>> what they're allowed to do were permitted to do but they so that they forgo that but the our code allows for a um a one-year period uh um for the property to be offered uh for sale at a
fair market value. And um and that year has not eclipsed yet. And as far as you know, they have not put it up for sale. Um yeah, I'm going to >> Okay.
>> Wait until Yeah. Uh when an appeal goes to council, uh it leaves my hands and goes to the city attorneys here. >> You can see I worry about things that we've done and I don't know. >> Yeah, I know. And I appreciate that.
>> What's happened with them? And the the last one and this one's pretty important is the trees on the mall. >> I thought you were going to say this one is important. When is this year's BA barbecue? But um I and I just go back. I
know you all have asked me questions on these appeals and I I I apologize for being um cautious, but I just it it's a legal matter and I I have to be um the trees on the mall. As far as
city council, we had asked them to appropriate funds and it was a three-part process and we asked for I think it was a million bucks. >> Yeah. for the phase one >> for phase one. >> Yeah. I don't know. I have not looked at
the the pending budget um to pick it apart. I opened it the other day. It was like 316 pages. I went, "Eh, I don't have time for that." But um I can go and look at that and um but I I don't know offhand um what the status is.
there. >> Yeah, it I mean if it's there, it's in the um it would be in the budget docs, but that means then it's a it's a matter of >> I mean if it's not is it something that we should go back and ask?
>> Well, right now well I I I'm not an expert in any way on the budget. Um but what what's currently available now is the draft like the 26 27 fiscal year budget. So, um, if there's something allocated in that, um, uh, or if
something's been allocated in prior years and hasn't been used, I I just I can't answer that, but I can check. And, um, but the fact that it's been formed and that council's now, I guess they're beginning their process of reviewing it, discussing, going to start having all
the hearings and things like that. Yeah, there's opportunity for for you all in the B certainly opportunities for you all individually to express um what you'd like the council to do, but I can look that up and circulate with you a little bit um you know more
informative um outlook on that. >> I may I will talk to some city council members and bring up that is an issue. I mean, I've got a homeless encampment a block away from where I live that's sort
of pressing on on me right now, but there isn't much I'm able to make progress on that either. So, I'll I'll talk about the trees. >> Okay. You I think there is in the CIP.
My understanding is there is money going for starting to replace those trees. I'm not sure how fast it is um going to happen, but um I was pretty certain that was part of the CIP, at least the first phase of them. I think they were talking about doing them block by block or something. >> Yeah,
>> I could be wrong on that, but >> it might be money just to cut down the dead ones. Um but I will find out. Um >> I thought we'd ask about that for I have a question about project.
um the I guess boutique hotel at the corner of Jefferson and Second Street Northwest across from the M from the um >> uh theor with the 1980 building behind it that
sitting Yeah. >> this um >> porch. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. With the weird porch. >> Yeah. >> With the aquamarine color. >> Yeah. Yeah, the one the one that had the porch that was uh connecting to a 1980s edition in the back and they
>> um redone really nicely actually, but they never finished the porch. >> Yeah. >> And it was all the elevations were off. >> And you had looked at it several years ago about restoring the front por, recreating the front porch. It's the same person, I believe, that's doing the
house at the top of Second Street. Um and my understanding is they are taking their time. Okay. Yeah, that's I've asked. >> It's okay. I just Yeah, as long as it's not like been abandoned and her more curious. >> I've been assured it's not, but I thank
you for asking. >> All right. Any other items? There being no further business in front of the bar at this time, I move we adjourn. Second off say,
>> oh, we didn't use the the secret emoji. >> No, no, no, no, no.