But um welcome and um good to see everybody. Thank you for listening. >> I was going to talk to you. >> I was I was trying to be there last night, but um we have a new baby in the house. So
>> exciting. Um I'm George Jones. I'm chair and I'm going to go to my right nonprofit. First angle of Charlottesville, Office of Economic Development,
Charlesville City Council, >> Lyndon, at large member with nonprofit um and neighborhood experience. Pro real estate professional >> Alan Pur city manager's office
>> Kathleen Matthews redevelopment and housing authority >> thank you um are there any um staff updates >> there are and we also are down
I don't know if anyone is able to just do some brief minutes. They don't have to be, you know, super detailed, but >> I don't mind doing it. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate that as well. >> Um, and I want to thank the communications team. They provided some support for us and we'll continue to do that. So, oh yeah, no longer having issues with our Zoom webinars. >> Um,
>> some other updates, our house and craft grant application period are almost underway. The hops one opens September 19th and will close next Monday the 20th and then the CAP grant application period opens on the 20th and is also
open for um we have got about 15 applications that are in process so far. We had a workshop on August 1st and we got some receipts that those are helpful for people. So, we'll continue with those. Um, we have a UVA public policy
student who is working she wanted to work on a project relating to housing in Charlottesville and she reached out to me. So she's going to be doing a uh policy analysis about the landlord risk reduction fund idea that's going to come
out. Um and that analysis will you know analysis at the top of my hand and then some policy alternatives. One of which would include you know what would look like to move forward with that program or a potential alternative program that might solve that problem. Usually one of
your alternatives is what happens if you do nothing. So I imagine that would be one as well. We are also um engaging with 3TP the same consultants who were at the last meeting but some different folks in their office will be working on um our
ADU manual affordable dwell unit manual specifically the fees um how they've been the calculation those are supposed to be up uh reviewed regularly and as well as some of the more questions that have come up in the last however not
quite two years right um that about how those fees are applied. Um and there's also the regional housing study that's going on. I think a lot of you may be aware of that that is being um administered by the Thomas Jefferson
Planning District Commission and they are working with the Virginia Center for Housing Research at Virginia Tech um to work with localities to collect data and then the Virginia Tech folks will be doing a lot of that most of that data analysis by the end of October they will
be um coming out with some of their introductory quality outcomes a literature review and kind of an inventory of existing housing resources in all of the communities that are a part of the PJC. So, if you're interested in learning
more about that, we could have uh come and give a little update on that. Uh happy to schedule that if that's something you would like. And the only other thing I wanted to note is there are a couple of committee
members with terms that are ending at the end of this calendar year. So you will need to reapply. Um and I'll just reach out to you all individually make sure you're aware of that. But if you don't already know there's nothing. >> Yes. Any questions?
the stats of the opening what you were Oh, you're gonna Kelly's gonna talk about that. >> Yes. So, um I have one update. Um we um as as you all know um the housing program transitioned from OCS with OCS closure this summer to new development
services this summer. Um at the same time or essentially at the same time in Williams as a housing program manager, he resigned from the city. So we are um left with Matteline uh our star um acting housing program manager. Um it it
has um it has kind of in trying to figure out how to move forward. Um it has occurred to me that this is really an opportunity to take a step back and um evaluate what are the needs of the housing program um within the city of
Charlottesville to meet the goals of the affordable housing plan um to uh steward the expectations of the development code. Um so I am happy to report that um
I've sent out um an expression uh for request for proposals to a number of consulting firms. Uh it's a uh a list of consulting firms that was recommended to me by Virginia Housing. Uh a list that they use for their capacity grants. um and I've just received a couple of
expressions of interest that they will be submitting um uh uh responses and uh we can get that program evaluations away. Um I view it as an opportunity to um get input from stakeholders. So from
you all on what you view as the opportunities, the issues um and ultimately really kind of provide us with a fresh outside perspective on you know how how from a staffing perspective um the city can really meet the needs of
the city in this space. So that's an update on the housing program from a staff perspective. um looking forward to getting those results to really then be able to kind of be in the best strongest position possible to recruit for a new housing program manager. I think the
caliber of the type of person you want in that role is someone who would want to know that we have a uh we we have an understanding of what the program really needs to be successful. Um, so Maline
and I are continuing to join forces and divide and conquer to keep the wheels on this bus um moving forward and prioritizing items that we can address. But certainly I think we're all
looking forward to being able to um staff back up again post on that. Can you would you mind sharing like if you I know you it's still a work in progress around the RFP and everything else but sort of timeline around how you see that playing out.
>> Uh so I have asked for um this to be approximately a 10 to 12 week time frame. So, I'm hoping that by the time I get responses and can bring somebody on board, that would be wrapping up toward the end of the year, first part of next year. And then with that, I can move
into start to do next steps. Any other questions? Okay. All right. Next thing on the agenda is um the approval of the September 17 have minutes
[Music] approval. a second. Any discussion on anything? All in favor? >> I
Okay. Um and then um I don't have my glasses, so if I miss something, somebody say something. But I see the line bag. But isn't Chris supposed to be doing a presentation?
>> Um Chris, I think Kelly is going to speak first a little bit about the land bank and then that will lead us into that. Okay. Okay. All right. Cuz I was looking at it. Okay. So the land bank authority in Charlottesville status review and discussion.
[Music] >> Great. Do you want me to just go up there? >> If you would rather talk down there, I can just move the slides for you. So, it's whatever you want. >> Can you guys hear me? Okay. From down here. Sorry. Um Okay. So, the um Land
Bank Authority of Charlottesville. Um this is an item that um was certainly been outstanding. You know, it was unresolved when OCS um closed and housing transitioned to NDS. Um and so this this summer and fall uh I have been
working with the team to try to gain an understanding of the work all the work that's been completed to date um in consideration for how to realize creation of a land bank. So, um, today what I'd like to do is, um, share
my understanding is of the history of where we are, um, some of the background, um, again, my understanding of what the city's recommendations have been to this point, um, and the rationale for creating a land bank. Um, that's within the context of what the
hack has also recommended. um what seemed to be some of the most critical implementation considerations to move this forward and and then finally kind of our our staff reflections or kind of key takeaways now that we've I've been able to get up to
speed what I think everything I've learned means for how to move forward. Um and this is um I'm happy to be able to do this in this time frame. I think this conversation really dubtales well with the conversation about the table.
Um and so um certainly we could have discussion on the information I present after I share these slides. Um I would recommend that perhaps we wait until Chris also has an opportunity to share his information and so we can kind of have a a conversation thinking about the
whole. All right. All right. So, where we are today, um, this should all be familiar information. Um, starting in 2023, we passed a resume discussion of a land bank ordinance. Um, strategy identified for consideration in the 2021 affordable
housing plan. Um, in 2024, there were discussions with the city manager's office, the council. Um, that consideration culminated in a half draft ordinance presented to the city manager and the deputy city manager at half meeting August 2024. Um there were
different perspectives shared on the best moving forward operational challenges. Um that draft was also presented to council in October of that year and council charge staff with conducting a due diligence review and to come back with an updated version for
council review. So in 2025 staff um did that work and draft an ordinance. Um staff prepared an updated and revised ordinance and presented that to council in April. um of this year. Um and the staff ordinance does diverge from the
hack draft in these several ways. Um so I will say go ahead and advance um very grateful to um Alan, Shira, and Maline and helping um understand where those where the points of
divergence exists. What was the staff rationale for moving in a different direction? Um, so I try to distill what the staff recommendations are here, the rationale um hoping that that kind of helps provide a better understanding of
um of where of where we are um in terms of staff recommendations. So the the key the key elements of the staff recommendations were first to establish a landbank authority. Um and the goal there or the driving factor in that is to ensure transparency and
accountability required for the handling of public tax revenues and general funds. Um so this the intent here is really to prioritize transparency, accountability uh recognizing however um that this may potentially limit a quick
action um that uh could be possible um in a independent nonprofit model that the hack. Um we have been able to affirm however that the authority model um can accept tax deductible contributions in CRA
funds. Um so that does somewhat I think offset some of the concerns that were raised um about the downsides potential downsides of an authority. Um staff also recommended to identify affordable housing as the stated purpose. Um this
allows um future discretion by the land bank board within a clearly stated mission and kind of avoids locking in the a pathway of the established affordable housing plan. That was something that the hack draft proposed. This might be a detail.
Um just responding to facial expressions. Um this the staff recommendations are to enable the city manager to appoint any staff to serve in theirstead and allow interim board appointments. The the rationale here is to enable flexibility
in appointments to prevent potential delays um versus what the hack was requesting was that um the leadership be at the department head or higher level. Um moving on next slide. Um these this is
and this is the last slide details. The staff recommendation was to restrict the authority to issue bonds, discharge leans, um which is not allowed by statute, um nor be exempt from municipal fees and charges. And the concern here
was really that um the land bank issuing bonds could impinge upon the city's bonding authority really requires a greater level of authority accountability than an independent nonprofit could the city than the city would be comfortable with. Um, there is some new statute language
that Alan could perhaps speak to better than I about the ability to convey tax delinquent properties to the land bank which may help address some of these concerns. Um, and then the these last few bullets, um, these were just
additional key elements of the staff recommendations, not necessarily, um, points of divergence from hack, but just I think important to help, uh, round out an understanding of what the staff was recommending. Um, the land bank would rely on an RFP process for property
dispositions. Um, this would be a Charlottesville specific entity, not a regional entity. um it would rely upon the Virginia statute on fairness and avoidance of self-deing uh rather than having specific language um to that effect. Um
the land bank would be allowed to receive up to 50% of tax revenue collections um and it remains silent on whether the land bank could be dissolved um in order to reform as a nonprofit entity. >> Can I ask a clarification question?
Uh on the top section um this is under the staff recommendations like a concern for landmake issuing bonds you know impinging on the city's bond authority. >> Did we I I think we all assume that that's an accurate assessment but have we confirmed that that by if it were an
authority and issued bonds that would impact city bonding capacity? We confirm that. >> I don't know that we did. We asked for a legal opinion on that. Um, uh, it was discussed in the city
manager's office that that's concerned, but we didn't ask for a legal opinion. So, I I can't say that I've got legal analysis on that. phrase that discharge means not allowed by statute. I don't understand that. >> I don't know.
>> We get the land statute discharge >> another one that I get to field. Um >> and I will say at this time I'm very grateful to Allen for helping put together these materials. >> Um yes, it was it it was u
it was our impression. Uh if you recall, we had a UVA intern uh a graduate student intern who was doing some research for us and he uh actually uh was starting to attend land bank consortium meetings. There's a consortium of the x number of land banks
in Virginia and that was something that was being discussed was that uh there was limited ability unlike other states that have a wide authority for land banks to discharge leans. Virginia's is is fairly limited and that has uh
constrained the ability of some of the land banks in Virginia um to operate as much as they had hoped to. There was discussions by that consortium about looking into some legislative changes to make the uh Virginia uh land bank
entities law resemble uh the more liberal ones in Michigan, Ohio, etc. I don't know the details of all of that. I just know that that was the discussion that Stephen and I uh were a part of when we attended a couple of those meetings with the land bank consortium
was their concerns that the ability to discharge leans was not as uh easy to do in Virginia because of the way the statute was written versus other states. without side tracking. I think both of those questions it would be helpful whether maybe not in this meeting but in
a future meeting just to have crystal clarity on >> so as Alan alluded to um something else that happened over the summer um was uh some work to try to understand if we were to move forward with the land bank
you know what would it take what would be the next steps in implementation Um and there was a intern, a graduate student that um came on board and uh did some research on what would be required
and um the the the basic steps are laid out here. So the public hearing and ordinance I think that that's something that we certainly already discussed. Um a board of directors would need to be appointed. Um we would need to develop and adopt bylaws
um policies, financial guidelines, determine priority properties for acquisition. Um and then a funding and operational plan would would need to be um so having documented I think the history to
date where we are um as a city in terms of what we'd be comfortable moving forward our understanding of what will be required to stand up the land um there's a couple of key takeaways case um thinking about how to move forward.
So um first um in our assessment the specific cost impacts of creating a land bank are significant. Um the staff that would be required would be at least a half to one full-time equivalent. So one
staff person would really need to be dedicated to this effort over the next 6 to 12 months. Um long term once land bank is established um we would need one and a half to two new positions created
um director administrative staff um likely requiring indefinite um committing of resources to support the needs of the land. Um so probably goes without saying that
existing resources would need to be the greatest priorities if we were to stand up. Um and the new FTEES required to run the land bank we don't those don't exist. Um there's also questions of new operating budget costs anticipated for
other administrative startup needs. So the legal council document generation office space that's setting aside you know the the consideration for cost of acquiring and moving the land. Um I think another key takeaway for us has been an acknowledgement that the
authority model um simply may not meet um needs and interest um for quick action. Um it is going it would be part of the city bureaucracy you know the way the city is comfortable standing one up.
Um however um there may be some other tools available to achieve finance goals. Um and this is really where we kind of segue to talking about the cable um program. Um there may be ways to
create a financing mechanism to support affordable housing development different from the tools that are already in our toolbox. Um a quick strike fund would be kind of a layman's term. Um and if resources were
available, the city could hold land at a lower cost. Um or a nonprofit entity could do so until affordable housing development can come in. So that's another another potential strategy that doesn't require a land bank. Um so I
think that the the takeaway for staff is that um it would take a lot of work to stand up the land bank. We actually don't have the resources we need to really even make that happen um if we were to divert our existing resources to do that. Um but there seems to be some
potential to work on other program components. um I can achieve some of our goals. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Chris unless there are any additional kind of clarifying questions on what
I've shared so far. >> Okay, thanks Kelly. Um so I'll try and fill in some gaps here and answer some questions. Um I think we shared a document with you in advance so you probably have a sense of u a little bit of what we're talking about here. Uh, Kelly referred to the cable fund,
Charlesville Affordable Cruise Line. Um, before I get into that, um, I'll back up a second and just tell you a little bit about CEDA and a little bit about how we got to this point in time. Um, CEDA is the Charlottville Economic Development
Authority. Um, municipalities, localities, counties in Virginia, right? >> Um, have the ability to have economic development authorities. Most of them do. U, most of them also have housing authorities. They are similar in a lot of ways. Uh they're all
created through the state code. Uh there's a whole statue about economic development authorities and industrial development authorities and then there's a whole housing authority side. So they're similar in many ways. Um communities that don't have housing authorities but do have economic development authorities have the ability for the economic development authority
to act as if it were the housing authority. And communities that have one of each, they kind of have their own swim lanes. Um we have had an economic development authority uh that started in 1976 as the industrial development authority. We changed the name in about 2007 to
better reflect what is actually happening in the city of Charlottesville which was not a lot of industrial as you might imagine and we were kind of transitioning to less industrial more just basic economic development type support. So in any case, if you want to read about
authorities and their powers, u it's all in the state code. And then there's a city ordinance that uh reflects the state code and establishes um the body. Uh the body is seven members appointed by council, four-year terms. Um
and uh they are the entity that help make the decisions related to um anything the authority does. In general terms, the authority has the ability to buy and sell land, uh, remediate land, uh, manage land on behalf of a city. Um,
they do have bonding. Um, I want to say authority because to to the question that Sunshine asked a bit ago, um, I think the answer for land banks and authorities are it's very similar. so that the the Economic
Development Authority um can serve as a conduit issuer for bonds for industrial or nonprofits. Um if we were to issue our own bonds, it would impact the city's ability to issue. I know that for the authority, I'm guessing it's the same for land
banks. The way these things function in Virginia is a little different than the way they function in other states. Probably not surprised to hear that. Um, and it may take a legal expert on authorities, land banks, etc. to kind of give you that real clarity, but my guess is that it would impact the city's
ability to issue debt. Um, and which we kind of bump up against every year already. So, in any case, a little bit of a sidebar there, but um, we do issue bonds on behalf of entities, and I want to just kind of clarify because there's
often misunderstanding that a bond is this magical thing where money disappears. It's really just a loan. It's a it's a it's an agreement between two parties. And when the EDA gets involved, we um confer tax exempt status on that bond, which makes it more
advantageous to the to both parties, but specifically the borrower that's seeking to build something. Um they don't have to pay federal tax on on those bonds. So, it makes it allows them better financing. Uh the most recent one the authority did was the UVA alumni
association building a new building and uh they're a nonprofit. They qualify under statute. They came and sought uh conduit financing through the authority. Uh we've done a number of others uh in and around uh for nonprofits. Live Arts is another good example um here here on
the mall that >> my first previous question clarification around how the like a third party like the media >> does not at all. Why is that different? >> Because the the ability for the
authority just to confer that tax exempt status there's no liability from the city. There's no funds from the city. There's no funds from the EDA. Um, we're just simply allow it's all tax code kind of stuff that goes back to the 1986 tax code when that changed uh and allowed
allowed this to happen. Um, I'm not an expert on that. Won't pretend to be, but um when we do conduits, there's no impact on the city for its borrowing, for its debt at all. So in that scenario, EVA or the entity that was you
were lending to, they were carrying the risk and% and the loan. >> Yeah. So there's a bank and there's a borrowing party and the EDA just sits in on the top and says we can confer this because you do qualify and you have to meet the statute that says you qualify. >> You have to be a legitimate 501c3 and it
has to there's some other things. Uh and there's a whole stack of documents that go with each of those transactions which means that the cost of issuance is significant. So that typically anything below like three or4 million dollars wouldn't even wouldn't venture into that space because the cost of issuance the
attorneys and the accounts and all that involved um kind of drive that up a little bit. So that's why you tend to see bigger projects and not smaller ones. But anyway, that's a little bit about CEDA. Um and then how we kind of got here to considering uh an affordable
bridge loan. U I'm looking at Sunshine and he was involved in this conversation some some years ago. So um the economic development authority also serves to kind of convey performance agreements uh that the city wishes to enter into.
Kindlewood has a performance agreement. Uh it was the first one we did of this type for phase one. We've also done one for phase two and that essentially allows the tax revenue that's generated from that project to be returned in the form of a grant. Once again, this is a Virginia workaround. um you can't abate
taxes in Virginia, but you can grant back an equivalent amount equal to the taxes that would have been paid uh to help a project succeed. Um we did that for Kindle Wood and that was somewhat groundbreaking in that it had not been done uh certainly locally and I don't think really in the state. Um
the laws around the authorities's ability to do that have since been tweaked. Uh and u the type of uh situation we engaged in with the nonprofit housing organization u is now included in the state code uh for
>> Can you give us a can you give me examples of what it was and what got tweaked >> in the state code? Just simply added a line that said housing. uh before it just didn't it was silent >> most like industrial
>> infrastructure related and then they added housing got >> yeah so in any case uh we were helping um PHA and that effort engaged in that and in those conversations kind of a side conversation was well it
would be nice to have available funds for purchasing not something like Kindlewood but something like a single family home that might be about ready to be sold and be transitioned into potentially not affordable um status and PHA and the land trust that's associated
with PHA are in that business and so this conversation about um would there be any possibility that EDA plays a role in that and about that same time and I have our strategic plan document uh the economic development uh office had a plan done in late 23 it was adopted in
24 uh one of the elements in there as you might not be surprised um relates to housing and the fact that housing and economic development and jobs are are intertwined. Uh our swim lane is the jobs and the workforce and entrepreneurship and whatnot. Kelly and
others, nonprofits and others have a swim lane that's affordable housing and housing in general. But um our plan did allude to the fact that to be successful in our work um we need to at least acknowledge there's a challenge with housing in and around
Charlottesville. uh our third third section in the uh plan references that and just simply says support the activities related to housing the comp plan the affordable housing plan etc. So our board members, our seven members, um as we went through the plan and kind of
dug in on each of the items said, "What can we do in this space?" And that was kind of at the time we were having conversations around uh is there a loan fund idea? And uh so that's kind of those two things came together and we
started to explore that a bit more. And then it got a little bit bigger in which there was a a meeting in this room of a number of kind of potential funders and nonprofits to maybe create something that's much bigger than what you see on paper today. Um that conversation
sputtered for a couple of months and then I think we finally decided that it wasn't ready. It was too complicated to to pull funds from multiple sources to try and create something that would would support um the activity. So that could happen at a future date and it may
be happening somewhere else that I'm not aware of, but the local effort for that was was kind of sunset for a moment. EDA still had an interest in supporting uh as our plan suggests and so we kind of engaged saw us on a much smaller
simpler um effort and we've come up with this uh affordable bridge loan which is exactly what it says a short-term loan to 24 months low interest rate u fairly simple terms and requirements um we hope
and think um to specific speifically city-based nonprofits that are in the housing business um that want to buy a piece of property that is in danger of potentially becoming unaffordable and keep it in the affordable space. Uh so
that's in a nutshell what it what it seeks to do. Um I wouldn't classify it as a quick strike fund in the in the classical sense that it might have been talked about. Um it's currently uh funding level is minimal $500,000
uh that could be used in you know one or two loans uh that would then be repaid and it would revolve. So these are loans not grants. Um and uh >> if somebody if a nonprofit came to you like what's the turnaround time to try to what's the
>> is very quick. We're trying to kind of keep it simple and keep it quick because that was another kind of pain point that was expressed to us is that you know we can go to a bank and we can take six months and do all this. So we were trying to shrink that down. So this has been embraced and conceptually supported
by the board with the caveat of working out the details and that's kind of the phase we're in right now is to work out the details. One of the most significant of which is the collateral requirement that we would want to put in place to protect the funds. Uh and as soon as you
do that, it starts to get go from simple one easy to very complicated. Um but the goal is like 30 to 45 days kind of time frame like like a very short window as short as window as possible. um to try and
facilitate the rapid kind of uh you know the needs that are out there because if if a property goes on the on the on the market you know it could go quickly uh and I think uh DHA and and land trust
have had that happen to them uh over time and and potentially others have too. So uh in any case the goal would be to make it as short as possible. I don't know that we can reach 30 days. Uh but if we can iron out as many of the kinks in advance, then maybe that is possible.
Um and I will say that this is a bit of a a shot in the dark. A trial could work, it might not work. Um but it was a way that the authority could kind of dig in and address that one item that um we didn't really have
any meat behind at this moment. So maybe I'll pause there and uh see if there are specific questions. I've kind of glossed over the actual document, but you've had a chance to read. >> Yeah. First of all, I applaud this and I think it's it's moving in a great
direction and it's a really needed tool. Um I'm seeing a couple of internal contradictions here largely having to do with what you just spoke about in terms of speed. So, um, when you limit it to half a million dollars in the term to two years, you're really talking about
is, um, is being able to get something, um, under control. So, you're talking about a deposit. >> Um, uh, we don't have 60 day, we don't have 30 to 60 days to to get that. And the way the thing that's going to make this cumbersome is requiring land as
collateral. Um, because you're going to need an appraisal, which takes time. And um and often times our biggest challenge, we can get bank loans anytime we want, >> but we don't often have unencumbered we because because we try to leverage what
we do to do the most work. We often don't have simply unencumbered land. So I would I would I would ask you to push yourselves as far as you can in terms of your collateral requirements. Maybe there's other things, balance sheet, >> um del pledges of deliverables. you
know, a lot of us operate on a receivable model. So, we have a ton of money coming over the next few years, but it's reimburseable. And so, um, anyway, if you could get more creative around that, you'll differentiate yourself from the land from a normal
bank and be able to decrease that timeline. And we're talking this thing to be successful needs to be turned around. Piece of property goes for sale. We get under contract right away. we know that we can pull down this money to um to put a a large down deposit down.
So I would I would um suggest that. And then the other thing is that I know the details have to be worked out but I get scared by bullet point number two under applications must include comprehensive plan for the acquisition and a renovation and lease occupancies include financial plan renovate. That's due diligence that you do after you get
something under contract or uh under your control. Then you start to invest some money in a land plan. That's when you start to think through the proforma and that takes a little time to generate not that won't happen before you have to get this land under
control. So if that could be streamlined something a little bit more general a general description of what you intend to do probably be >> yeah I think we kind of want to be somewhere in between there. Um the comprehensive word probably gets gets some folks but we feel like we need some
indication of what the plan is and that there is a reasonable plan and what affordability levels you intend to embrace. >> I think that's kind of it's not intended to be lots of documents but but a basic kind of >> more general generally speaking you know
we imagine doing multifamily under 80%. If you could like accept that that would be better than I this is fine as it's written here anyway. >> Yes sir. I'm gonna I don't want to get too much into the weeds. So as a preface
let me say that I own a mortgage bank and we do bridge lending and super fast leverage buying all the time. I have programs for that. I have policies for that. I've got my competitor's policies for that. I've got the people I sell these things or borrow the money from
policies for that. And I agree with Dan, 30 days might as well be 90 in a lot of these circumstances, but getting a fast turnaround to at least to a preliminary that's a deal, go do it. You know, with some work, and I'm happy to discuss with
you, you can get that down to a couple of days and funding. I can get I typically can commit in a day or two and fund in two weeks. Uh, and a lot of that has to do with evaluating the collateral, what level,
there's a whole bunch that goes to it, but to me, I think considering the relatively limited funds we're dealing with, speed is key because you got to turn it. And in a two-year term, if you've got two loans out there, for a two-year term, you don't have a revolving fund anymore. You've got two
two-year loans out. So there's got to be some this might be a way to say to use this would be this is the initial grab and then follow on money from somewhere else can come relatively quickly but not
in two years. Uh unless you've got a lot more money to play with or you can come up with sort of a steady product I think. I think but I I'd be happy to chat with you about that because this is >> you know I make my living doing this so >> that would be helpful. One thing I
should say that this has evolved a little bit as the group's been thinking about it and it wasn't originally set up as a line of credit to the speed issue if it were a line of credit and to the collateral issue about unencumbered. Uh, and we did field test
this a little bit specifically with the land trust and PHA and and they indicated that it would be easier to provide collateral, unencumbered collateral on something they already own that they're not >> not leveraging >> in advance of maybe we're going to come
to you in a in a month or two. Let's get this squared away first. And if it's a line of credit, then it becomes it can kind of be set up in advance. um the EDA board got a little uncomfortable with that. So, we've backed off that and kind of made it more into let's just do a
straight loan and see if that works. But I'm hearing what you all are saying in terms of speed and it's difficult to split that baby where you have a piece of collateral that's going to stand for a good bit of it and that way the evaluation of the thing you're buying is going to lead on both. You don't you're not that concerned and your equity is
better. Good thought. Happy. involved. >> Yeah. I um actually I thought about this when um Chris was talking about it for you know nonprofits that are kind of not
as established like you know New Hill Development Corporation and I know there's a group of um black and Hispanic mothers that want to find like a a co-ousing community and because they don't have the established relationships
with banks or you know steady funds coming in from uh private lender or private you know, donations. This would be great for them. I know New lost property this year because they couldn't act quickly and for them getting property under contract and having like
45 days, you know, 500,000 for like a lot in Belmont or, you know, um I think this would be really beneficial for those like startup nonprofits um that are looking for something, you know, like a smaller project. Um, so I
don't know. That's what I thought of, but those are also fascinating perspectives. >> Yep. Exactly. That Yeah. >> Robert partners with the current property owner, buys the sun lot, does it get
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know if this were in place, I think New Hill would have proper, you know, would have a pro project moving forward. And even just having like that opt this option and the certainty of this option would have, you know, made the seller feel more comfortable that there was certainty
happening, right? Because there's a lot of people in the community that own land that are trying to pass it to company or organizations like New Hill. Um, so there's some level of patience, but having something like this would be great. Um that being said, I do
want to go back to the um land bank and I are we talking about this almost like replacing the land bank um as a function because I don't know maybe I'm wrong about this but I think this is great the the capital program but the land bank I
almost see as filling the role of there are so many properties in Charlottesville um and areas in Charlottesville that you know wrongs have been done to minority communities, right? And I think of like the West Haven project, um the West Main
Street project and the city and the land bank taking control of these properties and taking the time to do and develop them, right, is something that I saw this, you know, the land bank doing. And that's not
something that this capital fund will do, even though it's it is awesome. I'm glad it's happening. And so I guess I mean maybe I'm wrong about this, but I thought that the land bank idea was, you know, we're opening up density and
that's great. We need more housing in our community, but there are definitely, you know, areas of our community where we want the city and our community to take control of and develop them in a collective way that we all want and
mindfully and intentionally. And so I think we're losing that with the loss of the land bank. And I don't know if you guys agree with that, but >> um D I mean Sunshine had his hand up and down then Pepe
and let's keep with that thread. I I'll bring mine back up. >> Okay, Pepe. >> It seems um to me that critical to what Kelly presented is the results of the feasibility study. that 3TP is going to
do which might make a land bank moot not functional for the city and I don't remember when we're going to get that information about the 3TP feasib feasibility study. So there was a presentation in September
to hack um providing a status update on the tax payment study. Alan is here and can go in detail. Um as needed um the that that was really to provide an update and try to get some feedback on the feasibility numbers that they have
put together so far. um they are working on their final report and the um schedule that would collectively come forward to study commission say >> but that's a tax abatement program >> right and so that's that's really
focused more on the idea of creating a tax abatement tool that would support larger scale development by um abating the taxes on the affordable units that would be created um I'm trying to think if there's a connection to >> what I was just thinking that was a
critical aspect of the land bank but it's not okay my fault >> to answer part of your question this was developed wholly exclusively of any land bank conversation this as I suggested was trying to address the strategic plan
that referenced housing and so it's not intended from our perspective to be a replacement or and it does kind of connect to some of the work that a land bank could do if one were to be performed, but it's not was it not? >> Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn't see back there.
>> Kathleen. >> Yeah, just on um in the same vein, um I was also curious about just um you know, how the tie-in would be with community planning to economic development. Um, you know, I think economic development,
you know, helping increase revenue in the community, but also, you know, on the planner side, um, you know, this conversation of translating what the community wants and, you know, shaping what can be built and how it can be used. I'm just wondering how how that's
all going to get tied together um, you know, with this different element versus the land bank. it it seemed. Yeah, I mean I think maybe that's a good segue I was going to share before um
because one one of the pieces that does feel like it's significantly disjunction between the and even though they were developed separately but like the idea of the land sorry the cable being one proxy tool instead of a land bank. One significant disconnection is
that land banking part of that goal and a lot of the work that we did as a body was to ensure sort of community oversight where the if if the cable tool which I think we all general support if that's the only tool that's at play it doesn't
have that aspect embedded within it structure. Um so that anyway that's just one one point of clarity there that there's a loss if that's the only tool we end up using. But then the the back Chris back to where um this question of a loan versus a line of credit and um I
did want to resurface and it sort of got pushed on the end but around the idea of sort of like pre-qualifying you know even if even if it is not a true line of credit maybe if it's it's still a loan situation just like you might pre-qualify for a loan for a house
as an individual you go through the diligence process ahead of time um so that when it is time to you can move quickly. Um, and then related to that, you know, this is this builds on Dan's comments around a specific site
that you want to pursue. I would advocate strongly that um you know the pre-qualification process needs to include financials but maybe it's also just like uh organizational history
meaning if you know that Habitat or CRA or ourselves or whoever we are in the business of doing this work we may not have absolute clarity on what that plan is for that site at that moment in time but having a little bit of trust and
faith that we'll figure it out and if it doesn't work well then we let it go. So you know or we resell or whatever that rarely happens. We typically know generally what we're trying to aim for but have not going through like any sort of having faith that we are we know how to
do what we do. >> Yeah. So to piggy back exactly on that back in back into my wheelhouse on bridge lending and and mass turn money the exit strategy is the second question you ask. The first question is what are we buying? Second one is how are we
getting out of the deal? And you know one of the things to do in structuring this and uh is having the set of scenarios will lend this type of lending in general and then to know relatively
quickly even if you know sunshine even if sunshine's organization happens to face plant in this way we still get out with this and we've still got a way to go so that the at least nominally so that the risk of the capital really
isn't that much of a risk. Um that there's a quick and dirty way to extract uh CEDA from the deal if that's necessary. And I think that that once there's some assurance on that, then the sort of capacity for the
generalized risk goes up. I mean, worst case scenario, here's what we do and we claw our money back this way. Not ideal, but we're out. And there there a whole series of >> you get could you get a guarantee from the city for example or
use un unspent funds in the house funds that are sitting in the housing fund something like that you're just trying to hedge your risk right and there are other ways to do it I think requiring I'm just telling you as someone who chases after loans all
the time to acquire land that um most of us are leveraged leverage to the hill, we should be because we're trying to do more. So, is there anything that the city can do to hedge that risk? >> So, I can just respond to your question
about how is this replacing the landing? I think echoing maybe saying in a different way what Chris said, that's not the intention. I think the intention is that the land bank the way the city is comfortable creating one wouldn't accomplish the goals that that um the
hack has articulated a quick action uh for or potentially um providing you know financing tools. Um so and and there's also just a capacity issue and like what what are the right priorities for the
city to be focusing on right now um to stand up new programs and so I think the thought is that we could focus on the cable >> the cable program um could be the the
focus in this phase for now and we can return to the idea of you at at another time and and we should talk about it every three years. >> Okay. >> No, it's just funny >> for three years. Every three years.
>> It's a perpetual conversation. Uh so recognizing that this the recommendation coming from staff around the structure of a land bank wouldn't necessarily achieve all that we've talked about trying to get to let's let's cast as a thought experiment
cast forward in time two years let's say the land bank is operating let's say the shelter conversation hadn't happened yet and then 2600 holiday drive came up um and there was this 30-day window to walk it down boom Would the land bank be the appropriate
authority in that moment in time as as you conceive of the staff conception of it to do to go through that transaction or is it still not operating in that way? He's talking about the homeless shelter. >> Talking about holiday
would the land bank be the functional entity instead of the city purchasing holiday drive if the land bank had been in place for a couple of years? >> I don't I don't know but I doubt it. My sense is I doubt it. I the housing authority can own land the
economic development can own land but the city's going to buy >> I think that it's a real start. The city can also, just to make sure I understand, the city can also purchase property. You don't need >> the city's under contract to purchase 20,000 Holiday Drive right now. Um,
so you like I mean, I guess in theory it could if it were formed and it were, you know, stood up and, you know, everybody was happy with how it was working and but the money would would come from the city to the land bank and then the land bank would would own it. Um,
>> so it could, but >> yeah. SP city council. I'm curious what your perspective would be in that. >> So, >> I mean, I I think it's a good theoretical example of let's say that opportunity came up and we did not have
a year in surplus left to allocate to it. Um, I don't think anyone is under the impression that issuing bonds is free money. Everyone understands that it has to be paid. It's more expensive than paying in cash. But as a practical
reality, most affordable housing purchases, we can't bond. And as a practical reality, a lot more things can happen if something becomes eligible to be bondable as opposed to in cash. Like the
Buford Middle School project can happen if it's bondable. It can't happen if it has to be paid with cash. So for these larger acquisitions of a portfolio of a hundred units or several hundred units of um multif family, the land bank I I think would play a role. All of which is to say in a world
where we did not have a year in surplus to allocate and pay for holiday drive and cash. I could see a land bank being an entity if it was deemed that's the best way to make it bondable. And if that urine surplus did not exist, I would guess that the city would not have
made that purchase if it couldn't have been bondable because the concern would have been the immediate fiscal capacity is not there to do it. And then the question about is a land bank able to do bonding that doesn't impact the city would in there if if there was not cash available. But I'll
just I'll just end by saying I think the power of it is that you could make more affordable housing related purchases bond eligible than is currently the case right now. >> Still have to pay the debt service. So which would have to come from
>> and I and I hear you but let's >> Yeah. Okay. If a year urine surplus didn't exist, there could be a 10 $15 million purchase of 150 units that would not happen if it could only be done with cash in that moment. So that's
>> I do want >> it's not free money. >> I do want to echo like it's frustrating. I think that, you know, it it was it's been talked about for a very long time and it I don't know if it needs to be a land bank, but I think having somebody
at the city focused on trying to buy city property and have community engaged development is something that is really critical as part of a successful zoning ordinance change, too. I mean it it's
I think it's really important and if anything I just think it should have been already been in place at this point and I don't know um I mean I know that it's hard to get all the things done but I'm disappointed that we're here. Well, to
address that directly and our capacity issue, uh, we started talking about a revolver strike fund and development fund in NDS in 2017 and 2018.
And we might have made progress with that in a significant way if John Sales did not have his head on fire trying to do all the jobs that you know because he was on the spot at that point to do all of that. there were not the people to
organize. And one of the things is we're now down from Meline and every time there's been tasks out there at any time, I just got flashbacks from scanners or something that her head's got exploded. There's only so much she can do, you know. And I
think that might be and to your point the issue is we can talk about standing up a land bank with money we don't have and people we don't have to run it without you know and at this point we really need to figure out to have the the human capital I think to be able to
manage the larger scale that we >> Yeah. But we got I mean we've got $10 million flowing out, but we also made a commitment. We've also got this commitment uh that and this came from Sunshine said outside of that $10 million, can we get a million dollar commitment for administrative costs for
all of this? And we got sort of a soft yes. >> Is that a sort of Yeah, sort of a soft yes, but we don't have that. And I think at that I mean at a larger strategic level is if we're going to be spending these millions of dollars to make these
acquisitions, you know, clo human cloning is beyond our reach. So we need to get some we need to get some people in here with the skills to do it and >> my name. >> Yeah. And I share Nicole's frustration when I saw the FY20,
you know, two years from now budget >> and and essentially my condensation of that document is it's going to take too many people and too much money to to move ahead on it and
it's so it's something we will consider now. And when I also think it's an important priority, >> I think part of the interesting things in this moment, and I agree with everything Nicole said earlier and and others um have said as
well, is in this most recent iteration, the original recommendation from the hack was to have it be an independent nonprofit entity or attached to existing nonprofit. staff said it should be an authority and then staff led us down
this road to establishing it as an authority and now we're being told that's not feasible. So, we're kind of back to square one where we might as well at this point open up the conversation of should it just be an independent nonprofit or attached to an
existing nonprofit if this is the direction. But it was not hack or the community saying we really want this to be definitely a city authority that was originally coming from OCS staff that >> well not necessarily OCS >> staff sorry let me that's correct I'm
sorry I'm sorry just staff at some level >> yes it's a city manager >> very clearly the city position is that given that we're talking about the tax dollars the the level of comfort is that
this entity exists as a city a um rather than as and so yes that that's very clear right that we are as a city not comfortable with the idea of an independent nonprofit all
that is you know what the desire of the hack >> and since that is clear it then you know there has to be a conversation with Sam in the room or whomever um that um there
has to be some commitment to fund this to pay a person to be to be able to do this if they're truly committed to um one the land bank and that it should be a part of the city. >> I just think that
>> I am um I think we are hearing what you are saying. >> Yeah. I would like for Sam to be in the room so we can talk it out, not keep sending messages to you all to him. >> Can I ask a clarifying question?
>> How do you all feel about that before you go to your question? >> Sorry. >> That we should have Sam in the room. >> I think that'd be great >> to say. Okay. Okay. You know, we hear you and we're going to ride with you. um
down the lane. But here's what >> step up and do it. >> Yeah. Let's We're going to have to put something We have to put money into it to um to um to to be able to hire that one and a half person or two
>> so they're focusing on it, right? I think there has to be some kind of commitment in the budget to be able to do this. We're not disagreeing. I'm not disagreeing. I remember my colleague that it should start out being a part of the city because that's what we talked
about, right? It could start being a part of the city and then transfer on its own. Right. >> But that's not in this recommendation now. >> I I see. I know. But I'm just saying that's the conversation I know that I've been a part of
>> is that let's start out with it being a part of the city and then see how it goes and then transfer it over. Either way we go, it's going to need capital to be able to pay someone to be keeping their eyes on it and doing the work.
>> If I can just offer, I think, you know, one one observation I'm making about this conversation is that we're having a conversation about a specific tool to accomplish a specific goal. um slightly out of without talking about maybe the
other priorities that we have to achieve affordable housing goals in the city and they are numerous um so far they are only on this piece of paper but I'm very much looking forward to >> and you might add one for me that we need to define affordability and for
>> yes yes exactly >> that has been mine from day one >> and so when I you know hear about very specific recommendations to add more staff to accomplish a very specific goal. I get a little I'm just being honest. I get a little uncomfortable because I know that there's there's a
lot of things that we want to be accomplishing and a lot of reason to be bringing in new staff and >> more. >> So, what I think would be good is if we could kind of zoom back out and maybe it's at a very and then maybe this is a segue to your next item, you know, at a
at a a meeting soon, we talk about what is everything on the list and how do we want to prioritize those things? what is really the best what are the best strategies to achieve our goals recognizing that yes a land bank is a great tool but you also need money to fund the purchases that you want to make
and so do we have a you know there's just there's a lot of different pieces this puzzle um and are we trying to stand up a land bank so we can buy make you know multi-million dollar purchases for homeer or is it more for right so what
is it actually that we're trying to achieve? So, I I I I definitely recognize the frustration and I have certainly just from listening to many of you in conversations understand how much work has gone into this. Um I really think we have an
opportunity to hone in on one particular strategy here um in the near term and if we can just allow ourselves maybe some time so some additional conversations to think about the whole >> wait for sunshine and >> I really think that would be a good thing to do.
>> You you can go to your question now. I'm sorry I derailed you. Um first of all I want to acknowledge and appreciate that um I think this body has historically operated from a through a
strategic lens like not just getting caught up in a singular myopic thing but I ultimately wanting to create a range of tools recognizing there's no single tool to address it you know this as well as anybody and that we need every tool in the tool belt but not necessarily every
tool at compromising tools we know we want to have over here. So I think there is value in a little bit of a step back and being comprehensive and thoughtful around what tools we want to prioritize and what the actual costs and benefits of each of those tools are. I think that
would be helpful. Um, what I was going to say earlier is um, correct me if I'm wrong, but the the pain or that the risk that the city saw in the nonprofit centered model of the
land bank was the the use of bonding authority on behalf of the city without real city control. Is that is that the singular risk point or is there an additional risk point beyond that? They they did specifically mention >> also the tax revenue
>> tax revenue that was the specific I think that we sort of moved away from the bond issue as being less central during the conversation but there was anxiety about the tax revenue >> meaning the 50% that comes back >> which yeah which I did not understand
because that's 50% of you know that's an improved property that you would presumably do at a higher level you're getting the money that you wouldn't have gotten and the other 50% goes to housing So I wasn't I didn't understand the logic of that. >> So I mean okay I mean there's another
since I I recognize your questions here. I mean there is another um I guess path we can take here. Um Alan alluded to there being a landbank consortium that we have become familiar with. I mean it if you would like we could continue
these conversations. there are some experts in this field of land banks that um that could come in and talk to us a little bit more about these the questions that you're raising. Um potentially help find some sort of middle ground. We we could do that. We
could um continue to try to find a a solution that works for everybody. Um >> well, >> again, I think it takes time. Sorry, just it it takes time away from us being able to focus on other things if you need that. But if that is something you
would like to pursue, that is kind of another option here at this point. I don't know if we're going to noted and I think it may be worth, you know, conversing about that. The flip side of my question was more for the hack, myself included,
if the pain point of it having been nonprofit centric is, I'm just going to say for a moment, it is just a bombing authority. I know the secret piece here too, but would we still want to see a land bank move forward even if we if we
let go of the bonding authority piece? You know, we sort of did not utilize that. Would it still have value in our eyes? >> Well, I thought that it would. I think we really turned away from the bonding issue. really the funding source was
thought to be CRA funds and other ability for the nonprofit to make money and there would be a city investment to stand it up but we but the idea would ideally not to have to go back to the city for serious money. That was the
idea that you could if you were in the business of disposing a property or selling it. Therefore, you had money coming in and you just needed revolving funds from some source to keep going. And the CRA was my suggestion for how to get there. As soon as
provided we still have a CRA that means anything. >> Okay. So maybe maybe this ties back to what you're potentially suggesting, Kelly, which is last thing. um which is if there's if we desire if we do want to continue moving forward in partnership
with some you know consortium that would might provide additional outside guidance. Is there a path forward we can navigate which um maybe it lives in the city we can figure out the bonding thing or maybe it lives outside the city still still there's still an ordinance that
that constitutes it but you know sets aside the bonding authority piece have to navigate through the the tax revenue piece but in a way that still allows us to use that as a tool and the the holder of ideally which is which is long-term a strike fund in some
way because I think that was really the core we're trying to get is like a strike fund so we get a lot of things done like that's that's the essence of it and the land bank was a mechanism for doing that and cable is a starting point but it's not the scale it needs to be nor is
it strike strike yes it's not quick strike button so I think that's still we're trying to solve >> do you want if I jump in front of you because because I wanted to address that in particular >> I think maybe so I Kelly started by saying that that they're prepared to do
an overarching study of what's the staffing needs that would be done in order to meet not the land bank not only the tactics but the but the goals which are um a reconciliation of supply and demand
for affordable housing in the community I'm supportive of that um one of the things that I might suggest as a um as an incremental step because it won't require going out and appropriating money for new FTEEs.
Um, finding those FTEEs, training those FTEEs, finding a place to put them is the calf or the city making a larger contribution to cable so it's not restricted to half a million dollars. set it up to three million or something like that and or or three million I just
threw out but and or actually backing making cable actually work the way it's supposed to work which is a strike fund backing those loans so there's no need for a land based collateral and appraisal so that there's actually money
set aside to hedge the risk for cable so let's make in the interim while we're figuring out what staffing needs we have to fulfill little everything on here. I'm interested to see your piece of paper there. Um, let's give that time to let's give that time to germinate and
get that right while we fund properly this thing that actually will start to deliver what we want, which is the ability to lock up land quickly. >> Would you be in support of that if it meant we wouldn't fund another
affordable housing project through the budget next year? Like I'm just thinking of what our affordable housing budget proposals are right now and we over our $10 million. So if we want to have another million2 million to go into cable
that's just one project that's not going to get funded is all I see it. So then that's also resulting in like potential loss of affordable housing. >> Yeah. So I guess I guess my perspective the >> trade-off my perspective on that is that it's um you know that's council and the city manager to figure out how to fund
it whether it's um through uh cash specific appropriation. This is one time money like if you if you feed this thing once >> um or you set aside one chunk of money as collater as cashbased collateral once you don't need to keep doing it um
because it's a revolving loan fund. And so maybe it is a you know maybe that's something that council given within the context of trying everybody knows we need more staffing and we need staffing that's consistent with the goals and strategies. Um it's going to take a little time to get there but maybe it's
maybe looking at the totality of funding needs. Um that's for I think council and city manager to say yeah it is worth it. But but I I think that this could have some legs >> um and accomplish in the interim until we stand up a land bank until we have
the staff to stand up a land bank. >> Um it could accomplish a lot of what a lot of what the land bank was trying to do. Um and here we are in 2025. We could have this by the end of you know we have this by the end of this fiscal or by the beginning of next fiscal year whereas the land bank is going to happen next.
It's just a thought. So, I I know that's an ammy pammy non-answer. Um, but um but I would be I I trust the city manager's office and council to make that decision. I would put forward this as a as a proposed alternative that
might get us where we want to go eventually. >> Right now, let's do something else. >> Yeah. I mean I um I think you've all said it well where we were trying to accomplish a lot with the land bank and
that was you know a have a you know quick fund for nonprofits b do community organizing and write the raw you know like there were there were a lot of things that were baked into what the land bank wanted to accomplish. Um, and I appreciate that staff has a
bazillion things they want to do and things are gotten so much better over the past five years. It's so I just want to be grateful for that. I just I don't know. I would be interested in seeing, you know, being having a bird's eye view of
the priorities and goals. And I mean, maybe it's really just it's just a council discussion. Um, I just want to emphasize, I think in order for the zoning ordinance to be successful, having somehow, I don't know if it's a
land bank or whatever, but somehow have resources and energy and attention directed to community-based development um, of new properties. I just think that's really important for those of New Orans to be successful. Um,
I know there's a million things, but >> No, I I definitely agree with that. I think that is my certainly my priority. I think it's council's priority is the land bank is something that we got close to. Maybe we Well, I guess we weren't actually that close, but >> it felt like we were felt for like maybe
we're close. it was something and to accomplish the goal. But the fundamental goal is how to get the city more able to get involved in property acquisition, including substantial property acquisitions for community
development that the community has control over, as you said, nonprofit development and also community wealth building. So people in these neighborhoods have businesses that connect with a price point that's affordable to them, job opportunities, ownership opportunities as well. Um,
and that to me is not like a tangential goal. I think the zoning code doesn't work without that. Otherwise, we're going to have a zoning that works somewhat well for young professionals at 120% AMI. doesn't really do a whole lot for people at 30 to 50% AMI and in some areas for a
renter and making $15 an hour or less might actually make their life worse. So >> I think um >> my chair not that makes it any >> I just I I think it's and you know I
don't want to um feel like I'm beating up any department um in the city but sometimes I have to beat it up to to kind of figure it out. But um I visited Greensville, South Carolina, and their planning department
does things totally totally different from what this planning department does. They're invested. They have people who are invested in a community. We used to have them where um I forgot what the other person name probably back in the days they used to have workers who
they're with Rose Hill there with um the you know and that was their ground neighborhood planners >> neighborhood planners and I think we have just got away from that >> and um I just wanted to plug that
because I when I was just amazed grant you Green and South Carolina have more land than we have. Okay. However, they knew the folks in the neighborhood who had their home, who um been living there
for years, who kids have moved away, who they want to really develop and develop around them. And what they did was, you know, they would work with Nicole and say, "Hey, Nicole, let's do a land swap, right? Because we have some land over there. keep you in the neighborhood.
We'll help to figure out how we build your new home just so that she can move from where she is to there so they can redevelop. To me, that is invested in your neighbor and in the community. And I don't see it here. I haven't seen it
for a while. It was here for a minute when I was green where um preservation of neighborhoods and and you're just being involved in it, but I don't see that anymore. and and then to hear you all say we don't have enough people to
do all the things that needs to be done. Probably do need to back up and look at how we serving the Charlottesville community, you know. Um so that that's just my um just wanted to share that with you. I see it work. I've
seen it work. Um and and I'm asking how do you do this? And they're saying this is what we do. you know this person this is what this person do anything that is going to be built or gonna be sold or whatever in this neighborhood then
Dan is the person that's Dan's job and he worked with that community but we don't have that here we've moved away from that and so um >> yeah we have our our development review planners are assigned to different parts of the city and those are kind of their
neighborhoods right but they are their responsibility is reviewing applications for development that come in. Um they try to keep your communities up aware of what's happening, but because our development code is now essentially by
right, um you know, there's there's not that same sort of opportunity for the negotiation and the discussion about, you know, what the community is interested in. But it seems to me that it seems to me like this planning department is more on the developer side
than they are on the community side. >> So I will put in a plug for our long range planning uh department that we or division you know that we created that came on board. She's right over there. >> Yeah, she's gone on her team. You know
there's two of them though, right? And we I don't know how large Greenville is um you know what their resources look like but at the end of the day we are a small community right and >> it was a small community then >> we were smaller than what it is now
>> but I think I mean fundamentally though I hear what you're saying and I do think >> yeah that's all I'm saying it's just that there is a piece that's missing and that's why you always see us waving our flag to say, "Wait a minute. You you
missed something because of the community um involvement piece of it. It's okay to be involved in the community um with just your neighbors, but there's a much bigger piece of it is what the city code said and what this
says where we have to understand it, embrace it, and maybe need to change. That doesn't happen here." But anyway, >> I'm g um are we you got one more so we can move to this? Yeah, I was going to build on what you
were just saying because um I don't remember I don't know if if Sam or or James brought this up in your sort of onboarding and in and discussion of various things but as part of the final sort of
reasonzoning not negotiations but discussions the and it's specifically around the poor neighborhoods that was a that was a central part of our conversation obviously for lots of important reasons. So one of the concepts is that we
ultimately decided to have this differentiation in the residential code between poor neighborhoods and non-core neighborhoods as a not a temporary measure because code is permanent. You know, I for legal reasons you can say it that way, but the
goal was for it to be a placeholder of sorts to then move into and dedicate resources to small area planning work similar to what had happened at Fville that that resulted in some really important work that has become critical to them advocating for what they want.
But have the tent and pages and the other neighborhoods Yeah. have the the time and resources spent to work with them to develop those small area plans to evaluate whether the code the code that's there now is what they actually want to see and make suggestions for
potential changes and then the scene that I planted with Sam on the dis of a of a meeting and um he didn't shoot me right off hand uh was that one of the opportunities is in the new zoning if we applied essentially neighborhoodwide
tips over those neighborhoods. So that when those uh when those neighborhood plans were established and it was the voice of the community, then there was actually a growing pot of money based on incremental increase in revenue. Not all
of it, but a portion of it that would then go to support the specific initiatives and goals those neighborhoods had, which implies that you have a connection point between staff and the neighborhoods in a way that's more robust than it currently is.
So I'm very familiar with the the history of the creation of the RNA zone. Um the idea that small area plans should be created. I mean that was exactly why I created these the the long range planning division separate from our
development review team to really be able to focus on small area planning and Oay and Tori Mcreezy, you know, they are working on the Tempen Page and Rosell small area plan as we speak. you know, planning for um kick out a community meeting. They've been to multiple
community meetings to try to right now she's recruiting for members of a technical um panel actually to support that planning process. So, please spread the word that she's actively looking for partners in the community to lead collaborate with her on that effort. Um
and this will be the the the just as you created a plan. Um, Tenth and Paige, Rose Hill, they will have a plan, other neighborhoods will follow. Um, so that is definitely the intent and we have a small area plan
implementation program. Um, there are funds that are yeah intended to be used for um the recommendations of those plans and that is very much um that is a that is a responsibility of OSI's team.
Um it was formerly actually a responsibility of OCS and something that that transferred over to OA when um when >> I know that you are um there's only
>> the new the new um person in charge there but there's not we don't have a good trust with the planning department. people have not had a good trust working relationship with the planning
department because we feel like have felt like um they're more around they're more support the developers and so there's a trust piece there too that is going to be something that you have to overcome your department have to
overcome >> joy when you say we don't have trust who you talking >> the neighbors the community >> so sub community sub different neighborhoods. Your your neighbor >> my Yeah. >> South First Street, >> Tenton Page, um Riverside. No, no.
>> I mean, because when things are happening, if FAR is not and legal aid is not looking at what's getting built in their neighborhood, >> the residents don't know until they see it happening.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think this is So I hear about the I'm I'm pointing that out to you about the finding people to serve on those. It's it's it's it's very very difficult for people and you
know um um because I was in the meeting with her when she was asking you don't have pepies no more. Peppe used to come to my house and hunt me down wherever and said, "I I will work with you to get you involved in the community." We don't
have much of that anymore, right? And so what I'm saying to you is is that we can find people, but it's probably the same person who is already doing something else is nobody else knew because they feel like nothing is going to change and you're going to do what you're doing.
I'm only saying that to you as someone new. Um that that's an obstacle that you have to like overcome. >> That's I feel for Kelly because there's there's these competing forces that that you're inheriting.
>> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> Um >> I mean >> from going back well I could go back 250 years but I won't. But um but um one of the reasons why
neighborhood planners were um were um kind of phased out. Not that they are. I mean they still they still have zones but was we became so bulcanized that neighborhood planning became a tool of white supremacy because where where did
where was the power centers in Charlottesville? It was in the mostly the white organized neighborhoods with strong neighborhoods >> and so so there was never any ability to think citywide. So like when neighborhood planners were the locust of
planning and and power in the city something like a comprehensive zoning code was impossible. >> And I I just want to be really careful that we articulate that we want to go back to that that we don't want to go back >> I hear what you're saying. I hear what
you're saying, but it is still necessary. They just have to be retrained. It's still necessary that you have a relationship with a community that you are going to continue to to gentrify or regrow or whatever. I know
Charlottesville has to grow, right? We can't spoil because of the hundredy year in whatever that thing but we so we know we have to grow and we might have to go up but at least work with the neighborhood that is not happening.
>> No. And I think that to Sunshine's point that was the compromise of core neighborhoods than are in was let's treat them differently. Let's give them some of the privileges that those neighborhoods had been had stripped from them to at the expense of the neighborhoods that the R1 neighborhoods
that made all the decisions that was really about nimism and keep poor people out of my neighborhood. Let's let's invert that. And that's what our zoning code kind of did. put special protections over our our N and again this idea that what we'll do is come
forward with small area plans and a tiff a specialized hyper local tiff in that neighborhood so that the decision-m could be part could be done by the families in those neighborhood I'm not sure that I really want to extend that citywide but I I mean I think what we're
talking about is a zoning code that is that is reparative of things that have been done over the course of the last um that half century or so in the name of of good zoning practice, good zoning practice that have been exclusionary. And so I guess what I'm saying, Joy, is
I'm very very supportive of this in the RN neighborhoods. I'm not supportive of this citywide in the in in my neighborhood. I don't I don't want my neighborhood association to to have the same rights and privileges. >> I'm talking about our lowincome community.
>> No, no. That's what I'm what I'm saying is that as long as And I know this sort of starts >> I mean and and and and to be honest I mean >> Fightfield is beginning to feel some crunch about what's going up in their
neighborhood too. Right. So but anyway that was just my piece that I wanted you to know I'm feeling. Yes. I I'm working on trying to find someone for her because she did come to our meetings and she did talk and and we're supportive of
that. It's just that it take time to find folks who one would show up at the meeting committed and to have someone who can help them through understanding what all of this mean. What does what is a small airplane? What goes into it? You
know, that kind of stuff. But anyway, I'm going to move on so we can get up out of here. Is there anything else, sunshine or Okay, so now we're going to go to D. Thank you. Um Chris, sure. >> Um
um the hack um annual plan work calendar. Can you >> I just brought up exactly what was left like this has not been updated from the last time. Okay. the hack visited it because most well we can see a lot of
the things we've we've done some work on but um so I'm not sure Joy do you just want to go through >> so we might not have time to go through it are we meeting next month >> we are
>> and maybe what we can do is work on this is everybody okay with that where we can go through it see what we have done and then set a thing for um going forward for the calendar year 2026. >> You maybe send it out. >> Yeah, that's what I'm getting because I
think maybe somebody just needs to go through this in light of the last few months and things around that are obvious to start with. >> Yeah. Okay. So, so I can send this around. >> Can I make a suggestion though? Sorry.
which is what I heard Kelly talk about earlier around having the consultants come in and do an evaluation of the program overall and what the opportunities are. that seems very dovetailed with this question of what we focus on in partnership with the city
staff around and so in some ways I hesitate to jump into this do a bunch of work on it and then come have the consultants come back with something else and then have to revisit on >> but I just I for me for me being that I'm the chair since we did this because
I hate to do work plans and then we don't never look at it again is to look at what we have done and then we don't have what we have done and what still need to be done and maybe that's part of what can be um >> and some of the items that are on there that still have to be done too are
really less about our housing program and more about like h developing a recruitment strategy that's really the work of like a subcommittee that maybe we need to talk about planning meetings for you right like that's something that that can certainly continue >> well it's November so
>> yeah exactly So we can share at least >> not until November meeting >> and what we were thinking about like what >> on our radar back when this was formed because it's been over a year. This was for a whole >> it might not be entirely useless for the
consultants to see that. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> The problem with the being involved with the consortium is whether that that's a good use of our time knowing that so many best practices would require changes in legislation. I mean, just
like Alan was saying, well, so and so do it, but Virginia regulations won't allow us to do that. Well, you know, that's not how I want I want to spend a lot of our time personally when we're not standing. So,
>> so then we All right. So, the next thing is public comment. Do we have anybody? >> I have one. >> There are no online. >> Oh, okay. >> We have We have public comment. >> Oh, hey. I'm sorry, Wendy.
>> Hi. I have a really really fast one because I know that y'all want to get out of here, but my name is Wendy Gal. I'm an organizer at FAR. Um, some of you, as y'all may have heard, Miss Joy has talked about it at this body, too. foot far 10th and page West Haven Fo
residence. We've been organizing and fighting against two large um one's an 11 story, the other other's a sevenstory student luxury um housing buildings on West Main Street above West Haven, 10th and Page and Fville. Um, so we're
fighting these development by development, but we are also trying to um get a fasttracked zoning amendment passed um through the planning commission and city council um specifically around how the zoning affects these massive byright
developments around the edges of low-income historically black communities. Um so I just wanted to ask this body to do whatever you all can um to help support residents and community concerns. I don't know if that would be like a resolution or recommendation of some sort, but just wanted to urge and
encourage that. Thank you. >> U not to give reply to public comment as a general rule, but the planning commission has received uh has received that message loud and clear and now we're we're not haven't said we're doing anything, but if there is something to
be done, how do we go about that? And I think that was floated. Um >> and I definitely would like to have a conversation with us about um >> you were hurt.
>> Yeah. So um because for me um even though I was involved with you know with the code um helping to voice our opinion about the code I don't I think it was a miss for me about the impact that it will have when you
um on the edge of the lowincome communities and that you only have one chance to voice your opinion which is before the bar. is not giving you any other opportunity to be able to say nail or work with us
and so um yeah okay all right so can no more comments can I have a motion next meeting is scheduled for November 12th
and I think I might be here >> Wednesday instead of the third Wednesday but that's because the third Wednesday co is closer to >> yeah it's closer to the today. >> All right. And I might not be here at Sunshine. So, >> I think I might be at a conference. I'm not sure.
>> Are you okay to at that conference? >> Actually, that's why we moved it. We moved it to not the GHC. That's >> all righty. Um, if there's nothing else, I have a motion to adjurnn. We >> do. Second. >> Second. Okay. All in favor? I. Okay.
Thank y'all.