I'm the chair. I'm a far rep to my right. >> Rich introduction. Yeah. >> Rich. >> Oh, sorry. >> You said Rich. >> Sorry. You okay?
Oh yes, sorry. Um, Heather Real Estate. >> Uh, Nicole Scro, real estate rehearsal. Medaline, I'm not sure Meditler, acting housing program manager. Not what's going on in this sure what's happening in this room today, but
>> so I'm Andy Freedman. I'm consultant working for Kelly and NBS and I'm going to be presenting today. >> Kelly Brown, NBS director. >> So, I'm John Housing Alliance. >> Mike Freezy. I'm the secretary. I'm an arch member Rosel
Kathleen Matthews housing authority miss planning intern planning manager and it looks like we've also got Tori from the long planning department on line as well. >> Okay.
All right. Um next on our agenda is staff update. Um, I will admit I did not prepare an update for today's meeting. We've had a lot going on. Um, if anyone's been watching any city council meetings for
the last couple of months, you've probably seen Sunshine or Kelly or me at one or all of them. Um, been working with Sunshine to finalize a couple of funding things for some projects PHA is
doing as well as with CRA. This is time of year that LITC applications are due. So there's a lot of last minute details to be finalized. Um we've also continued working on well Kelly is really managing that working on student housing and be
in LU study. Our CAP committee has been busy at work reviewing all of the CAP cops grant applications. they'll be ready to have their funding recommendations um by the end of this month for those.
That is all I can think of at the moment. Um Kelly, do you have any other you want to share? >> Um think you covered everything. >> Yeah, I mean the other big one that is the housing program evaluation, but Andy
is here to talk about that. So, >> were there any other questions for um >> I guess you guys talked about you have had many meetings. Yes. >> Um you talked about the tax statement program.
>> No, last night. >> Yeah. >> Um >> when I recap, I I didn't watch it yet. >> Yeah. I mean, I think council was generally supportive of the idea. There are still a number of details we would
have to work out if we thought we did want to implement it. And um as Michael Payne pointed out that at the meeting last night, he's not here today, but uh we don't really have any additional capacity right now to start a new program immediately, but we will be working to develop some recommendations
for council. Um, and I don't know if we'll need to get more feedback about if we were if we were going to be designing a policy, then there's still a lot of things we would have to make decisions about. Um, but >> I think the feedback last time was overall positive. There were questions that come up, but honestly, most of the
questions they even asked were answered on the spot. Um, anything else you want to say? Yeah, I think we're just at the point of >> processing with the questions that council opposed and yeah, thinking about
what's >> okay then given that that I don't think we have >> Yeah, that's fair. >> Yeah, we got make our plan. That's one of our goals
for 2026, isn't it? >> Or was it one of our goals? >> Try to is to try to >> advocate for Yeah. I mean, staff is doing that. >> Yeah, we did. The big thing was >> we wanted to evaluate if this is
something that would be worthwhile. And I think a lot of the findings from that study have been helpful in other ways too. And >> yeah, >> and it like kind of bled over into the student outcome study that were worthwhile. So, >> okay. More to come certainly. That's
cool. Thank you guys. Yeah. >> Okay. So, we have a couple other people coming. If you could go ahead and introduce yourself. >> I'm Dan. I'm hungry. I'm with >> Hungry Dad. >> I'm Terry Ty. I'm an street and just got
appointed yesterday. >> Welcome. All right. Um uh number next on our agenda is the approval of our January 21st meeting minutes.
>> Might note the year says 2024. >> Notice that >> Oh yeah, I just saw that >> motion the January minutes with changed to county board of >> Is there a second? Second.
>> Uh any discussion? If not, all in favor? I >> I >> Okay, the minutes has been approved. >> Number next on the agenda is the presentation on housing program evaluation. >> Mr. Be
I also just want to make sure you just for the benefit of those Michael Sorry, Michael. >> No, no, that was just a little bit of oversight, that's all. Just trying to move it agenda along. I'm
sorry. >> I don't need to take any time. Just wanted to thank for being here. As you all know, uh, with the housing program moving into new good moment services last year and the departure of our, um,
housing program manager, it seemed like the right moment to do an evaluation, determine, um, take stock of all of our priorities and our needs here in the community and figure out what sort of resources are needed to support um, those efforts. And so, I'm very happy to have Mr. Friedman here. Um, no need to
take any of this thunder, but thank you very much. Thanks, Kelly. Um, okay. So, I'm Andy Freriedman and let's see this. >> Oh, it should. >> Okay. I have a company called
Progressive Housing Solutions and um I've been a consultant for four and a half years. Previously, I worked for the city of Virginia Beach, Department of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation for 34 years, and I was director for 28 years. And we did all kinds of housing
stuff in Virginia Beach. There is no housing authority. So we had the housing voucher program, housing development, we did homelessness, code enforcement, housing development and um I applied to uh made a proposal
through the RF process to do this project because thought it was really interesting and because I really like Charlottesville. My son and his uh wife live here. They went to UVA and I I love it here. So I thought opportunity to come here, opportunity to hopefully
contribute to um to your housing programs. >> I might not just click the first the left button. >> Okay, >> let me make sure. >> No, it's like every time it goes away. There we go. Okay. >> Okay, >> I'll go back.
>> There we go. So, what's what did the RFP ask for? This is Kelly's RFP asking for someone to do this, which is to do a staffing focused evaluation of the city's housing program, assess current staffing capacity, role alignment, and
expertise to ensure the program is effectively meeting its strategic objectives and community needs. Uh evaluation plan, which I did, that was the start. Uh organizational assessment report is really the final report that I'm going to do. And today we're giving
you the opportunity to see the preliminary ideas that I have. Give feedback to Kelly and I so that we can do a final report. I can do a final report and as part of the process clearly we wanted to be here and get your feedback before the report was
finalized. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Now it's for me. Yeah. >> So, so far I've read a lot of the city documents that Kelly and Meline have provided. I've I've looked at some of
the city council minutes from the recent meetings. I interviewed many of you, 18 people alto together. And I've got a kind of summary. I'm going to give you some of the feedback from those interviews. I've done some initial peer cities research and let me just say that
you have no peer cities. There is nobody of this size anywhere in the universe of housing affordability effort with Charlottesville. And um this presentation is really intended to give you the preliminary thoughts and get your feedback.
So um as I said, Charlottesville is really a state leader in affordable housing investment. The only place that I found, so this is not final, but the only place I think comes close to the per capita investment in affordable housing is none other than
Fairfax County. Fairfax County has 20 times the population, but only five times the housing investment. They've invest this year, they're giving away, not giving away, they're investing $50 million, and you guys are investing 10
or more million. So you're way up there on the scale of investment per capita probably per city budget portion anything that you can probably measure and part of my job is going to go back and kind of get those a little more solid so you can really have a good
comparison. You have a wide ranging and expanding array of programs. Just in the past few weeks, you've been talking to council about the tax abatement program, the rental program, and others that you guys have mentioned. You have programs
operated all around the city, multiple city agencies, as well as multiple community organizations. There've been a big staff change where it's been assigned to neighborhood development services. And as I said, you're doing some studies of programs
and considering new programs as well. >> Okay. Sorry. So, um, as far as staffing, because this is a staffing focus report, the original consultant report that put together that $10 million recommendation, and some of
you brought this to my attention, it said it'd be prudent to invest 10% of that $10 million on staffing. That's really like if you look at federal funding for housing programs, like the minimum, a lot of them will give you 10%
for admin. Um there was a report last April by the previous housing folks that said there is a critical need for staffing to help manage and implement the housing efforts that the city is doing. Many of you said to me, both
people in the city and outside, yes, we need staff to do this work. And so I mean it's not a hard conclusion to make that we need staff to keep the programs going and make sure we achieve the city goals which are incredible
goals with a lot of effort. >> Andy did you do we know if we're at that 10% level? >> We are not. >> Even before the recent step that you know >> at the bill 25 meeting we were not. It was at I think 400,000 at that time, but since that time, you
know, really Matteline is the only full-time person in housing >> and that was that was including some of the partial time of staff members that were in OCS that were lending their time to housing as well. >> So, like baseline before the shakeup was like 5%.
>> Really? That would be stretching it. Yeah. About 5% >> and that was for like two and a half folks approximately. Okay. So, it's really important to go over what's currently being done and and Maline is the acting program housing
program manager. She's doing all of these things. I won't read them all to you, but uh point of contact for CRA and the multiple projects going on with CRA and for um the how this committee, the
calf committee, the new programs that are being reviewed and developed as we speak. Um the data dashboard and also annually reporting to council which I think you did just recently in fall on the affordable housing plan. But anyway,
all of these are part of the responsibilities that need to be conducted right now being conducted right now. And then um and that's an existing budgeted staff fun um position is the
housing programs manager. That's in the city budget right now. And this one is um also in the city budget, right? This is the housing grant administrator and compliance coordinator. all the grant work >> and reviewing inclusionary zoning and uh
monitoring that >> and who's running who's doing that functionally. >> So that that's both you're under both those things. >> Well that so this was my role prior to taking on acting housing program manager but there's nobody additional doing any
of that. >> So it's one you doing both positions in effect right now. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Something also that's helpful to understand the scale of that grant monitoring administration is that between hops and cath it's about a million dollars right and then cyrap is >> 900
2 million in grants >> per year >> thank you and then also to be determined who's going to do this but we have the annual note for process and project selection underway now and then continuing um the evaluation of CRA development and
all the development deals the city's involved in both now and in the future and development agreements and there's a lot of um need to review those with high level financial expertise to make sure they work the city's getting what it needs and the deal is going to be
feasible >> who's doing that right now >> I'm pitching in as much as I can to keep things moving >> you are >> yes one person manage. Oh yeah,
>> with specialized expertise. >> Yeah. Grant >> affordable. No, affordable housing um development. I guess it's a very specialized field. I'm sure I can tell you all. >> Yeah. >> And we've been using a an attorney.
>> We have been um we have internal counsel for our city attorney office who helps agreements. Um our city attorney office is not you know they are not specialized in this field. So we um have been working with um some outside council specializes in affordable housing
development um the deals and um so she's been supporting us as well. But this this is this this is work that should be um handled by a specialist in affordable housing development.
>> Who who who was doing this before? Was that Angel? Um there was a woman who um worked in a guest who was um was doing this before >> and she's no longer here. >> She is no longer with >> assigned financial.
>> Okay. So that's two bodies. >> That's right. >> Okay. >> And >> three bodies. >> I'm sorry. I'm just go ahead. >> Okay. No, I'm just counting how many other replacements you need. >> Yeah.
We used to have a director, you know, in OCS who was focused on a number of items. Housing being one of them. Um and then there was um another staff person who um moved loan agreements through the process. This was not an area of
specialization for her, but um she did what needed to be done. And then uh yes, we had Antoine um as housing program manager. That position will be filled. We've been working through this evaluation um to figure out >> on the two.
>> We don't have those resources any longer. >> That was Taylor. >> No, Taylor. Um I didn't even mention Taylor. Taylor was not working specifically on housing programs, although she was supporting a little bit of the grant work that
>> Yeah. And she still does. We still I still work with the grants office, but they don't I mean Taylor's grants team was never managing like the administration of the housing grants. Um and they're not now either. >> So we have a department for grant writing specifically.
>> Well, they're they do a lot of more tracking of money that is coming into the city through grants. So any department that's applying for grant funding, they're going through that office and then they are also overseeing the um like monitoring of city grant money. Okay. Um
>> yeah. >> Then >> um what is the relationship of of redevelopment manager Brenda with with this chart? She pays that money. >> She used to Yeah, she used to that was her title and she supported reinvestment
in in a number of different ways in the city, affordable, non-affordable um student loan agreements. She is now um working in economic development as a downtown strategy manager. So, she is no longer supporting house. >> Okay. Do you have you maybe jumping the
gun here, but do you have an do you have this visually as an org chart or >> I think we I was just say we're gonna we'll do something like that to show >> pretty straightforward. It's a housing program manager >> and a compliance >> in the current state.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> What it was previously is what you're suggesting. >> It might be interesting to to overlay those things to sort of color code it. Here's what we have. here's here's what we used to have and maybe eventually here's what the recommendation
>> and I think you're what you're getting at is that like even a relatively well-informed group like this still has some >> uncertainty around how it was structured versus how it is versus how it should be. >> We love having that when it's a single point of contact it but um I'm guessing
she doesn't want that. It would be nice to have another one would not if anyone wants to take some phone calls take some messages you're I can't pay you for that work but >> great so I wanted to go through some of
the things. So, as I discussed with some of you in the interviews, talking about what staffing you need really relates to revolves around what you're trying to accomplish and a lot of you had thoughts on that. Um, community needs drive what
we're trying to accomplish. Um, all of these were mentioned in the interviews. Need for more bed onebedroom units, more accessible units, especially critical affordable rental housing for people affordable people under 60% of median
and seniors. Ne first month's rent to get people into affordable units even when they can't afford the ongoing rent. Case managers for people with high barriers. enhance an enhance access to housing for
unhoused individuals who may uh be qualified for but don't have the connections or any of the things needed to get into it and the connection between an available unit and what they're where they are. Workforce housing and middle missing middle
housing navigation of the housing system who to call for what's for what service that you need. I'm glad I see a nod on that one. Yeah. Um production of housing below 50% of median and then what was recently mentioned renters and
subsidized units still not paying their rent and also preventing the loss of affordable units. A wide range of community needs out there. Um and some policy issues that kind of cross over with community needs but obviously student housing issues have
been an issue here forever will continue to be. Um, >> don't say. >> I'm sorry. >> You don't say. >> Prevent displacement. Um, considering neighborhood tips to help reinvestment in neighborhoods, ensure accessibility
when mentioned that navigation. Um, promote better management of rental properties. People, somebody talked to me about a rental housing inspection program that they wanted to suggest. um looking at housing policy comprehensively including the production
of all types of housing as well as the affordability supply and coordinating the investment plans for the CIP and CDBG and CAP. So these are some of the things that you mentioned to me in the interviews.
We also have um next slide um the program reviews and new programs which really is a mind-blowing list but uh the CSRAP review is already planned may have started um the ADU manual
update is underway rental rears program which is just approved a rental inspection program that I mentioned a site acquisition I wrote down systems you talked about the land bank but there's other ways to do that with investment funds. The tax abatement
program which was just briefed to council just recently. Developer incentives, a bridge loan program is under consideration. HCV home ownership program is possibility. Uh the landlord risk reduction fund I
know in Virginia Beach was something that after I left they've implemented working with landlords to incentivize to take them to take people with subsidies. um landlord outreach, recruiting and retention, ensuring you have enough landlords who will accept the vouchers
and the subsidies, security deposit assistance for renters. So all of those are somewhere in the mix of potential or advocated for new programs and goals for the overall nature of the program
clearly and a critical need and this from Kelly from city attorney's office and from several others protect the city and development deals and contracts for services. So, we pay for what's needed, we get what's needed, and we make sure it continues over the long term. Um,
make sure we measure our impact and tell the story really well so that the community and the partners and advocates understand the everything that's being done. Um, and then when you look at the list of new programs and current
programs, it's really important to focus strategically and say, "What can we do now?" That's most important. And that's a critical need right here. When you have so many options, council that really wants to act on these, we have to focus down and say, "Do this first, do
that." Um, policy, process, and procedures. something that internally there really needs to be more of that to make things happen more smoothly and to be able to have the paper trail to justify why we've done what we've done in a comprehensive approach to the
housing system. So all of these are um goals that would be really important to achieve and staff are needed to figure out how to do all of this. So here are my initial says initial draft staffing recommendations. We're
here to talk to you because we want your feedback about that. We will prepare that chart that you said, past, current, and future. Put these on the future side. Um the housing programs manager, whether however they're titled in the
neighborhood development services chart, but that is a budgeted function. the person who leads all of the NDS housing programs. A key thing will be for them to provide strategic focus that we talked about high level communication be
a spokesperson for housing in the city and um coordinate with all partners and that is a big job talking to everyone making sure we're moving all rowing in the same direction. the housing finance administrator. Something we were just talking about in
here, the high level development finance expertise, a very specialized field. Can't hire a new person just out of school to do this. You have to hire someone who's actually done deals. You have to get someone who knows the intricacies of the lowinccome tax credit
and development financing to make sure the city's doing the right thing, doing it the right way. Um, that's not a funded position. That's one we're recommending to be put in place. The housing grants compliance and
metrics administrator, which is a currently uh funded position that Matteline's doing along with being the acting manager. And that's pretty much speaks for itself. We're funding stuff all over the place with multiple organizations
and keeping track, making sure when you give a grant it happens, making sure the money is spent and spent correctly, all of that. And then giving the facts so we can report it out and say, talk about our successes and what's left to do.
Another new position recommended is the housing policy analyst slashplanner to coordinate review and evaluation of the new and existing program. So basically a program evaluation function both for the current ones we're doing as well as the
new ones that are either about to be implemented or under consideration. Everything we do should fit into a system so that this program does that piece and this program does the other piece. they fit together and they get the result you want. It's really when
you're talking about development subsidies and inclusionary zoning and tax abatement on the same project, that is a really complex set of things that need to be looked at and considered to make sure we understand what's actually
happening and what the net result on the ground will be. And then finally, another new recommended position is a resource development fund development person. Um, in Virginia Beach, we found that there
were opportunities to go after non-local taxpayer funds. And by that I mean charitable funds, state funds, federal funds. It takes effort to get money. There is it's not just oh there's that
grant we'll just write a piece of paper and get it. It takes effort and then when you get it you have to administer that money and you have to use it for the purposes you have to report on it if you don't devote effort to getting new money in. You're just not going to get
it and it's easy not to do that. But in the context of this city doing massive local funding effort, I suggest it would be very valuable to look outside. I know there's been very successful charitable donations toward affordable housing
development here, pretty unique. Um, but there could be others. And especially with the incredible community support that's here for affordable housing, I think that there's possibilities for charitable e- giving. And Kelly and I have already talking
about um support administrative support grants from Virginia Housing that may be applied for that may be helpful to carry out in fact some of these tasks that that we've identified. So this person, this position, if it was a full-time
person, maybe, you know, you could pilot it for two years and see if they bring in more revenue than the cost. And if they did, it's it's a no-brainer. So I suggest we look at that. for the housing policy analyst. Would that position kind
of incorporate the analysis role of evaluating like performance of your programs or seeing you this was the goal when it was created but we're getting the opposite outcome that kind of thing or would that be a separate addition?
>> So I think it worked with the compliance coordinator because the compliance coordinator is the person who's supposed to look at the projects and make sure they did what they said. This person is supposed to look at new projects and then kind of take a broader view overall
how is the program operating and how the program works with other programs. So I think they would work together on that. This one is more focused on higher level and new stuff whereas the compliance person continues to monitor everything that's in place over time and produces
that. And Maline, do you want to add to that? >> Well, I was just thinking like the the CISAP program evaluation for example. this is something like that's an ongoing program that we want to periodically be able to evaluate. So yeah, I think that would fit in there. Um and then in addition to >> or the tax management program,
>> right, if we were going to start a any new program, >> we have findings from a consultant that indicate, you know, that it, you know, it could be a tool that has some value, right? But there's a lot of questions about how it should be used here in the city. to be used for big projects, for little projects, for this geography, for
that geography, for this percent of AMI, that percent of AMI. You know, there is a specialization in the affordable housing professional field of folks who focus on the development of those kinds of policies. And right now, we don't have anybody that can do that for us. I
dabble with it, but it's it really is something that the city could benefit from somebody that was really focused on. >> I definitely agree with that. And that's a because I'm thinking like the capacity to like the tax program because there'll be so much variation over project type geography to like just visualize it,
present it to staff and council like a >> it absolutely makes sense. Yes, you want somebody who can develop those options and the pros and cons and what it would take and be able to present those those recommendations, those options to council, get council feedback, figure out and and planning commission too.
Let's not forget about all the other stakeholders that should be involved. That is what a policy analyst planner can do to help a community um really have a a more robust program and a program where um different parts of the
system are really speaking to one another as well. >> Someone who kind of zoom out and look at the big picture. >> Um this may be a bit of a leading question. Um it probably is. But um so one of the things we talked about this in our one of the places where the city
has been most successful in translating the vision of council to action was in the realm of historic preservation planning. Um, and the I I attribute that largely to having a historic preservation a very effective historic preservation
planning zar Mary Troy Scala um who when there was money to be found um found other people's money um when there were resources available that may be not monetary or otherwise nationally she connected with applicants and and helped
them and most importantly she was a shepherd of any project that had historic preservation component. She ran her with it and she had the authority to do so. Her word, she showed up at the planning commission along with the neighborhood planners but kind of
had the final word. >> Um I mean obviously council does but had sort of final staff authority. Do you see that um that sort of ZAR or Shephard role being invested in the housing program manager somewhere else or not at
all? before you respond to that. Can I just want to build on that for a second the thought that I was having which is I think parallel but um is around and we've talked about this different times like a housing on Budsman you know like someone because as we're talking about an array of different staffing
structures which we all agree fundamentally we need new you know additional staffing support but I think what you've laid out generally speaking makes sense to me. Um the risk is that it becomes you know over bureaucratic overly bureaucratic to some extent and
what we need in this day and time when it's hard to navigate federal and state resources to have local partnership um in in whatever sort of process we're moving forward with. And I think that having somebody who is that sort of ally
partner within the city to help navigate these pieces, navigate into NDS and site and zoning and like all of those pieces. Having somebody to be that shepherd, I think is crucial. >> Kelly, >> I think it's I think I think the
unbudsman is a very very important position to have because the community doesn't trust the planning department. period. There is a there is a distrust out there about um you know um working
with the planning department. Um, I know that um, one of the things I applaud you all doing is having I keep messing your name up Jose come in the community and she's sitting there right hopefully the
goal is that people will know her build a relationship with her to be able to gain that trust but that trust is just not there right so having an unbudsman who based on you can tell me if I'm wrong a humb
in the middle. They're not either for the right or the left, but it's trying to find >> the media, >> the medium, right? >> And that's needed. >> And then I have one more question after that, but I would just pick it back in on um what Dan was saying. I love Joyce
when she was here, but um I haven't found another Joyce in here yet. But yeah, um Budsman, I I do support that idea. >> I think what I'm hearing you say is that you're looking for someone who is really
dedicated to promoting the the community's vision and goals for housing in the city. And I think that um having a housing program manager or a deputy director for housing in the department that you know really has that role is is
important. And um >> but a husand program manager when they're talking to you, they don't they're they they're doing what is what they're told.
>> I don't really see how any city staff member could be that position then. I mean, they would always be a city employee. >> Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So I I I I don't Can I maybe articulate better if I can try my my I'm not trying to articulate
your >> you can try. >> But like so there are there are places within city pol, you know, policy is blunted, right? It's not it's not sharp and they don't policies don't all connect together. That's something I've been talking about here for a while is that there are lots of times in the
sausage making of putting a pro a project together, bringing it from inception to completion where where there are fundamental choices that have to be made. Do we want wider roads, more housing, right? Do we want how do we and and then you have multiple
departments or multiple people who are in their lanes doing their thing um uh with good intention but they don't add up to more better affordable housing right and and what we had again what we
had years ago when when this was a clear um mandate from council that that historic preservation is our highest value or at least that's the way it was interpreted. We had somebody who broke ties, right? Who said, "Look, you know,
engineer, you might want something, fire marshall, you want something, but the city has said we want historic preservation." And so, she kind of had the she had the hammer. She had the And and that's what I'm wondering is does that function exist somewhere in this
structure? Because I think that's where things um that's where things get get bogged down a little bit. So I think I think the housing program manager is the position that would be is envisioned as
the person who can speak for housing and bring the conversation that's necessary to do those things you're talking about. It's not necessarily the hammer, but it is the conversation directly to see what how you can thread down the middle of
all the things that are involved including uh someone talked about the density and the inclusionary zoning, the storm water requirements. Someone mentioned that as a as a limitation, all the safety codes, those all have to be
addressed. But sometimes there are middle roads that can be taken. And having someone who's, and this is how I see it, someone whose job it is to wake up in the morning and move affordable housing forward, however that translates to, if it's meeting with planning, it's
meeting with a fire marshal, meeting in the community. all of those things necessary to have the conversations that could push it forward. And that's why I think this staffing recommendation is so important. There has to be someone who
that's their whole job is here's the city's housing programs agenda and I'm in charge of helping make that happen. whether that is X Y or Z. That's how it's not necessarily the person you
said, but it is a person who tries to figure that out every day. >> And a question like I've noted noticed this void in meetings where there are these ties, >> fire, utilities, whatever, and there is nobody pushing saying that council
clearly expressed housing is our biggest priority. So I think that's important points to have. previously. Was that like a political result her having that power? How would we take that into a staffing recommendation? >> That's a good question. I don't know that we can completely look back to what
we had with Mary Joy and replicate that because we were a different city and it's one of the that was one of the challenges the city faced as the city grew. It needed to be more processoriented and more um um I wouldn't say regulated, but more processoriented. whereas before we had
the people with the loudest, strongest voices in city hall would kind of get together and solve problems. And so I I'm not suggesting that we replicate that, but we but we figure out what was good about that function that allowed things to move forward. And so um um
yeah so it's it's the person who when we look at standards and design manual a lot of most of the housing perspective came from volunteers I I volunteered I think Nicole you were probably part of that cadre was part of that um Charlie
Armstrong from Southern Development and we stepped in and we we gave as much feedback as we could but we weren't part of the city. there was no housing person who understood the engineering requirements, fire requirements, etc. and and their impact on density. So, I
guess I would say a couple of things. I I love the idea of promotion to deputy director, >> if not frankly even a city manager position for this, but as high as as high as the the city manager's office and Kelly thinks that that position should go, they they should sit up on
top of >> Well, they're in the city manager's office to longer, >> right? But whoever it whoever it is, that person should have the authority to make some decisions even when there are contradictory opinions about what the what the public benefit is. Um, and two,
um, we need to be prepared to pay that person because that person needs to have, uh, experience and expertise in lots of different things, development, uh, development finance, uh, utility, infrastructure, fire suppression, all of that stuff. And so this is not a I don't
see this as a $50,000 a year position. I see this is a well- paid position with somebody with a lot of experience. Um >> just just for awareness, the the housing program management position that currently exists is on par with um our building code official.
>> Okay. um is um so it is not a junior level position by any means but if we did want to you know seek to reclassify it as a deputy director position it would be you know a budget request. Yeah. And I see strongly strong support. The two things
that here I mean all of this I think is great. The two things that I think are really really exciting here are number one and number five without somebody searching for OPM other people's money as the county calls it. We're always going to be Robin Peter to pay Paul. Especially with a city like
Charlottesville that is trying to outpunch its weight and doing more than any other comparable municipality. We can't do it alone. And so and it it should not be a it shouldn't be a zero- sum game. So I really like that and but
I really want to make sure that that program man you know who whether it's a deputy director or whatever has the highest possible ranking so that I mean I don't see that person I don't think it's structurally right to have that person sitting equal to the building code official. I think it has to be above the building code to be honest
with you. has to be above engineering above fi somehow on some level above fire suppression above >> well I do want to just make sure we're managing expectations as much as I I want this to be a senior level position
perhaps more today and recognize the value of having somebody that as you put it Andy you know wakes up in the morning and wants to advance so far having goals in the city with everything that they do there will continue to be you know other
needs that the city has to balance and that is compliance with state regulations and you know the questions about utility lines into the back of lots fire safety those will continue to be things that we have to balance and try to navigate and find a middle path.
Um, so I just I just wanted to make sure that we weren't finding ourselves in a place where if we decide we want to push for a deputy director position that, >> you know, all our problems will be solved. >> No, I I I hope I'm not I hope I'm being clear. I'm that I'm not talking about
non-compliance and and health and safety. >> I didn't say what I'm saying is that there will >> still be some that housing if it's equal, it is always going to be secondary. Um um it is because because
um determinations about like if if someone says we need 10 feet of separation between these two lines, it's a health and safety issue. Well, then everyone else runs for it, right? If the fire marshall says we need 25 ft of clear and no parking over here and we
need to be able to see 150 ft down the street over here because it's a health and safety issue. If there's nobody who can say you have to think differently about health and you have to take a a broader perspective about health and safety housing is always going to be yeah >> get you shrift. You need somebody who
who really is >> pushing this not not making the city unsafe but maybe maybe taking a slightly different prism to questions about public safety outside the box. think freeze has done that >> from when from his time at um as NDS
head of NDS and now he's um at the city manager's office. >> I mean I think that's true but I think that he also has had a multiplicity of responsibilities when we're talking about this person being singularly focused on housing. I think that's a it's take that wrong >> like how there's been a bunch of like
deputy so okay so then you're you guys are saying there should be a deputy director focused just on housing part of the city manager's office >> I mean I think it's hard to know I don't I still don't have an intuitive sense of like what the right chain of structure
and where what the right title is and everything else but I do reinforce what Dan was saying which is without the authority to have real meaningful influence on other decision makers um that it will it will ne will never be
able to actually make meaningful potential change and >> I agree >> just as like a city councelor perspective I from my perspective whatever level of seniority it's given I think if I'm understanding you correctly I think
part of it will be beyond whatever the determination of the seniority level is or the the wording of the position, it will have to involve the city manager on their own or the city manager at the direction of city council saying, "I empower you to
proactively work across departments and I pro I agree that directing you that I trust you enough to proactively pursue things without it going through all those processes." So I don't know if that makes sense but it's not going to be >> that's absolutely a core part of I think
a revised job description for this role you know working interdep departmentally and hous like just to kind of sum a little bit of it up too is that this idea of a housing program manager is not envisioning the same like role that existed before I
think because that role you have to do so many day like you don't have the capacity to think strategically or to be building relationships and taking the time to do those things and working across the aisle because you're bogged down with doing all these other tasks that could
be done by other staff members and then freeing up that manager or whatever their title is to do that that strategic and relationship building work that everyone has recognized is just like not really there right now. So it seemed to me like in the beginning in my head I
was counting that you all already even before these new position you need three more people >> that's what >> or two and a half more people >> even before this >> well I think it's >> even before this I mean
>> maybe I wasn't understanding it so y'all help me out but as I was counting you're doing double job >> at least at least or three years >> and you're doing right. So even before
the new job, you still need three bodies. >> Well, there is captured in here that what that need is. Um >> some of those are designated as existing even though they don't have somebody in them right now. >> But I think it captures what you're trying to say. >> Yeah,
>> we definitely need that chart. >> Yeah. Yeah, we do. Because in my head I'm counting and I'm counting on my finger as you talking. It's like, okay, if we're talking about changing the trajectory and um building relationship
to make the programs even better, you going to need the bodies. >> Yes. >> And then what D and Sunshine is talking about that umbman or I don't know if that's what you're saying to D, but um that's needed. I'm telling you that is
needed because of how the climate is right now in the city of Charlottesville. Something is needed um where where we can I'm sorry where we can you know go um to someone that we
feel that you could be totally honest with and that they can help. And the last thing I would say is that preservation of neighborhood has just gone out the window. And I think for me that's where I saw
Joyce being so um helpful in getting you to understand why you need to preserve this and how you can preserve this and maybe this is what we can do. So and then the fifth thing there I I um can I just ask another question? No. I know
you say you like it, Dan, but does this mean that the nonprofits such as PHA, CRA, and Habitat who is trying their best to provide deeply affordable housing, they will have um the city
would then be competing to to to other funders or philanthropist out there. I will say over the last 5 years I have probably sent a dozen opportunities that required city to play a role in terms of the application
>> that we couldn't do on our own that the city did not have capacity >> worded differently then >> yes ma'am as I was as you were reading that I'm like oh so now you going to compete you know now all of your supporters that you
um who contributes to um the philanthropist who will contribute to the the housing funds to try to help and it make it deeply affordable. Now you're going to have the city going to them. So again that's competition and that's what we always run up against.
>> You got to be really clear that it's not the the idea is to grow the pie. But >> that's why I'm asking for example like in the county there are a lot of funds that that we could use at South but we we're not eligible for we need the county to apply for on our behalf. We
become a subgrantee. >> Okay. So can we just word that a little bit differently then? >> We'll fix that. So basically it's fund development to expand the availability of non-local taxpayer funds without competing. But as um Sunshine said, uh
when the city needs to play a role, we'll be available to do that. So that if there's a grant opportunity requires a nonprofit and the city sponsor a lot of times the city just has to put its name on the form, say we're sponsoring it or the city has to play a role and
then the nonprofit can get the funding. So all of those things that would expand opportunity for funding, not take it away. Hey, well, I will clear that up on the call. >> Yeah. Are you sorry, we're interrupting your
>> No, no, this is this is why we're here. >> So, since there are three flowcharts, what about a fourth one? Um, I just kept thinking about all the other, as you listed, all the programs that the city wants to do. And I keep thinking like,
how does this one fit in and how does that one fit in? >> Yeah. And I know city council obvious obviously they have to finish up their processes but I'm that might be an interesting >> I think it's a correct suggestion and Andy and Mal and I were talking about this a few weeks ago like this
evaluation the scope of it was intended to focus on what is needed for the housing program within NPS but the truth is that the city is delivering housing ser you know supportive housing services across the organization you know home to hope pathways these are all programs
that are administered um through um Department of Human Services, through the city manager's office. Um those are just two examples. So to have a way of zooming out and showing yeah >> how all of these programs connect to one another and represent the city services
in this space except for I I I mean I don't know and what human services does is trying to get people into housing, >> right? Whereas from where I'm come looking at it from is about how this po
this portion of it is how do we build these housing and what we have to do. So I see them as human services is doing what is it they're supposed to do is about working with people to get them into housing or to provide the services but on the other hand helping to build
that's the to me that's where >> yeah there's >> that's true however NDS actually is through caps and hops doing a lot more than just providing grants for building housing a lot of the grants are entire cyrop is for rental you supplemental
rental assistance. So there is a lot of complexity truthfully to how the different >> points are to go back to that 10% figure that we were talking about earlier. >> Does this approach that >> five positions?
>> Um so I haven't put numbers up there. Um >> if we were if we were below 5% and we're doubling it, it sounds like we're at% maybe. >> Yeah. Five positions, five positions probably might not get you to a million unless we really jacking up the city
salary scale. >> You have to consider benefits. >> Well, and there's other things that go into admin, not just >> paying the employees, consultant studies, um, external council. Yeah. >> But the the bulk of it is yeah, paying
the people to do work. >> I and I think there's two components of that. One is does it come up to that 10% figure and the other one is what is the source of the funding used for those those positions is it city general funds or is it carved out of the $10 million
which is a whole question that I am not in the consultant role to talk about >> and that was another question are we basing this on we probably have x amount of money right >> these are the positions we could do with that or are we saying we want to do these positions and then we're going to go
>> find Yeah. >> So you have can carry on. >> Okay. Next slide. >> Okay. So um yeah basically in summary I would say the four are essential number
one two three four are essential to continue revise and enhance them as we've talked about expand as planned monitoring report and results and support and coordinate the whole network. So I think one through four you
couldn't you it would be hard for me to say what you could do without in that five is potentially optional but I think there's real as sunshine's point out there's definite opportunity to bring resources
in without raising taxes on Charlottesville citizens and it would be really good to try that see how it worked and if it doesn't work then stop trying it. But it could be very beneficial.
Um, and just something about what's really involved here. I mean, Kelly's really re kind of creating from the ground up a new housing programs department. She's going to have to hire and train at least three, if not four people.
You guys will be a part of that training and orientation because she will have to meet with you, learn about the community, learn about your programs. But that's that's a job. And I want to emphasize this cross trainining and crossf functional support. The resource
development person really could be a backup to the compliance and monitoring person. Work doesn't come all at the same flow. There's cycles where the grant thing is very heavy and intense and it slacks off or the funding
applications are heavy and intense. So having people be able to back each other. One of the things the programs lacked for the last couple years is stability and continuity in both staff and capability. So doing this cross
trainining um is really important. and um just even putting together the work plan the strategic focus here's what we're going to do first here's what you all those so that's really big step and we're talking about the hiring process
the onboarding process and still we never get to just plan we always work and plan and so um you know really what we're trying to do is do the most we can with what we already have all of the programs in place. Really important to
communicate effectively a top priority of the city manager. Strategically consider what new things are top priorities and then find other sources to help do what we're doing. And that's
happy to answer the rest of your questions. >> Um, so I'm like obsessed with word charts now. I keep thinking of them. Um, what I'm curious like what a place like Fairfax's birth chart like and like how you know
and see how it might compare. >> Yeah, it's not comparable. I mean, I will I'm gonna do some of that as part of my charge. >> And getting that info is not the easiest thing there. >> I know. I was thinking that. I was like, they have
>> I can tell you Arlington has charts. Yeah, there's about 10 people. Okay. Okay. >> For how much like annual fund. Not that that's the only measure, but >> it's it's more than >> it might be the last um don't hold it to
it. It's like 14 or 15 million in housing direct housing investment. They have an array of housing things they do just like you guys do here. >> So there's not like always a onetoone comparison. >> Yeah, of course. But we can get the goal
is to give some illustration of >> what's potentially apples to apples >> and Google AI told me tax budget is six billion in Arlington is 1.6 6 billion which to your point when you compare
what we're doing to size of our budget >> right >> so yeah that's even a bigger disparity that's like yeah it's in 20 24 times our budget >> how can we best support your ultimately this is staffing ultimately I I can
argue all I want but when you say this is the staffing I need I'm going to support that what's the best way to support that >> well thank you for asking and thank you by the way for those who participated in stable learn appreciate your time um to build this. So the next steps are to develop this
report, finalize it, share it with this um the city manager's office. We do not have plans for broader distribution or sharing of the information and it really was intended to be internal for our own planning and kind of awareness of what the needs are. Um, so I would I guess I
would just say if you're in conversations with people and there are questions just to be building awareness and understanding um that's I think a way to be very helpful to us um at this moment in time.
So obviously in our discussion, you know, there's areas refining things, but I would say to me even these recommended positions are still kind of a bare minimum in scope of what we're doing. Um,
obviously our budget cycle is underway currently. I mean, do you feel like it's at a point where council just engaging in conversations with the city manager of like the budget cycle is incorporating something makes sense or we not that not yet at that?
>> So, I think the manager is presenting his draft budget in beginning of March. Um, so certainly I think there's opportunities for discussion through that process. Um I you know something that Andy and I
have talked about is that um you know given the the budget climate that we're in um the thought of adding new positions is somewhat um daunting actually and I will say Sam and James are familiar with the recommendations in this report just so you're aware. Um so
this might need to be something that's phased over time. Um so thinking about you know what are the biggest greatest priorities um that we can provide of our staff recommendations in that space. Um does that answer your question? >> I think so. I think it would obviously
just be however it's done it would be great to at least get a start of this budget cycle. Um because I do think the these are just necessary to turn our intentions into reality. Um I don't think where we're at is sustainable. Okay. And a question
by to get a copy of this. >> Sure. >> Oh, you can hear. >> Yeah. >> Oh, there. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. I'm going to leave it about five minutes. So, I mean um let um um
Sunshine take over. But the next thing on the agenda is the checkin on the hack 2026 priorities. >> What's up with the um whatever the acronym is, but the budget tool >> intervention analysis tool IT is what
the letters are. I >> so the last I'll try and then so we had some offline conversation uh around when to schedule a time to get together >> um
to uh and we sent over some like like some preliminary description of it and background and that sort of thing. I think what we decided was that we were waiting for the new strategy chief strategy officer to be in place and to have time to ramp up, but that would be
the ideal person to sort of hold this and take with it, but we just haven't scheduled since then. I don't know how long they've been in place now. >> So, I think she's been in place about two weeks. So, I was going to give her a couple more weeks and reach out to her to just for an introductory meeting before anything. But then I would really
like to use this as um anything of you know where there's interest in data monitoring data track um decision making right on priorization >> for those of us who are new or can't remember what is our new chief strategy
officer's name >> this We've had a lot of new people. >> Thank you. >> And Alan Pur now reports to her and Steve King too or no? No, Steve King is the assistant to >> Oh, that's right. That's right.
So >> there was a third >> um you might be thinking about the um oh maybe the staff focus on >> I don't remember where on the priority chart the landlord risk reduction fund
landed in terms of our evaluation for this year um this year next year but Either way, I would lift it up as a an emergent, not like imminent priority, but a priority for this year
specifically just as a a quick quick recap. um I participated in and there are a number of other folks from primarily from the city uh but included um representation across the blue area coalition for the homeless and potum and
others in a um in a an emergent initiative called direct to housing which is funded by and supported by an a consultants engagement that Brack has for addressing homelessness um not only
long-term term, but sort of in the the short to medium term. And um I'm not going to go there was a perfect planning meeting yesterday. So there's there's a there's a ways to go in this work, but one of the um tools that I think would
be fantastic to have in place when that starts is that tool. Um and I think the general thought is that we we would start look for a target of like this initiative towards the latter end of this year. So that's probably the runway we have to get to that point. Um, but I
think as we look at trying to do a surge response to get people who are on the street housed, having a tool for landlords, both nonprofits and forprofits that would give them comfort in, you know, accepting them, I think would be crucial. So we don't need to deal with it right now. I just want to
flag it as probably a priority over the coming months. I guess one way to think about our priorities is like so much of them require getting this in place first like getting staff in place first. So what can be done?
>> It's a good question >> before that. So because it seems like it's going to be next budget cycle, >> right? >> So one thing I can say is that um we will be putting together our departmental work plan for fiscal year 27 and fiscal year 20. Yeah,
>> I'm gonna be working on that over the next couple months. The, you know, the decisions that are made about the budget will heavily inform that, you know, what what we can do with the resources we are have or are given. Um, so I think that this is helpful for us
to hear what your priorities are because we can think about how that um lands on our work plan. Um recognizing of course we're only going to be able to do so much because of the staff constraints that we have.
>> Yeah. So I don't know if that helps. >> Yeah. >> And there might need to be some choices made, right? Like we are interested in the tax abatement program. This is a priority. You know what you see here >> easier lift maybe >> nothing ever. Yeah. Yeah,
>> our fingers and make these things just happen. Housing just >> that doesn't remind. Sorry. >> I was just think maybe maybe next time because we um maybe we next time we can have the um the discussion about priorities 2.0. But
let it get real this time. Like we had four priorities and now we have a restructuring of of the staff and need to hire on board >> all that stuff. Maybe we need to pick one or or be realistic about what we're
going to do. Maybe we need to to revisit that one more time. And so it's a because I keep thinking every time we come back to this unrealistically. I know that like oh well we keep having oh let's check on in on our priorities again. But I understand we just don't have the resources. So let's let's make
some progress on something. >> Well, there's another part to that which is and it wasn't really brought up in the conversation and this I think it's important to ask. There's a question of like how much lives within the city as a city function and how much gets contracted out that
could bring capacity more rapidly if there's existing capacity to tap into whether that's a a local nonprofit doing something or some other third party agency. Um and I think about the like when we contemplated the landlord risk reduction fund. It was at a time when we
knew like there was very limited staff capacity. We knew there was no way the staff was going to be able to run it. So we contemplated the idea that it would there would be an RFP for an outside administrator of that function so it wouldn't fall on the city to actually do
the work. So I'm not saying that is the right solution in this case but we contemplated that and so that there as we talk about different functions that just keeping that in mind too. >> Sure. And >> how does that, you know, even coming up with those options, evaluating the pros
and cons, developing an RFP, issuing it, >> figuring out pattern, >> managing the agreement, this is my job to bring these kinds of things up so we can have a realistic understanding. >> But I agree with Dan taking the time to
like be thoughtful around what our priorities are, what's the capacity, what's the work plan look like. feathering those together so we can actually not feel like we're like spinning our wheels and actually getting the things that we said we're going to get done get done in a realistic manner.
>> Kelly, if I could just talk about this the capacity thing which I think is really important. Um I did start by saying that it's not always an FTE that you need. Um, and in my in my work a lot of times, I'm not suggesting this in
this case because >> sorry FTE >> FTE means a full-time city employee. So I'll put this in >> I think about as a city manager which I was not a city manager but in a position
of city manager or city council when you create a new FTE you are making a very big very long-term commitment of funding benefits and obligation. If you're doing something new that you haven't done before, that you're not
sure how it's going to work out, there may be a shorter temporary pilot solution that would be a better step. And also the other side of that is some things are not the best thing for cities to do.
Cities working directly with landlords not always the best thing to do unless there's some other option. A lot of you as nonprofits have direct relationships with landlords and potentially could do a a landlord risk reduction program and
still involve all the things Kelly said. So many there's those two questions at least. What's the best type of organization to do this? And is this a or we definitely making a long-term commitment or should we pilot it, see
how it goes and then make that is a little tricky when you do that because if you want a really qualified staff person, they may not be interested in short-term pilot thing, but it's a big decision that should be made here.
>> I think that's maybe a lift is just I mean the budget is under development. If people at this table have thoughts about the scale or speed of investing in this capacity, you can reach out to counselors and let them know if the budget is
I don't know if that's >> maybe that's what hack does make a >> Yeah. statement. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like what did what's the phrase Kelly use? Is it it's not realistic for this budget cycle? Um, how
do we make that oh daunting? You said it might be daunting for for council to take it on. I mean, what if we make it less daunting? >> Well, what's the plan? So, when are you going to bring your report forward or is it not going to council if this account?
>> We're not This is a We were not planning to take this to council. This is I always view this and build it as kind of an internal assessment you know for use by my use and the man you know the manager's office and to inform my
recommendations for staffing moving forward. So >> so what's your well I know what your ideal time frame for hiring all this is today but like like realistically when are you looking for funding to fund these positions this budget cycle next budget cycle? So I mean I have requested
one position already that was the feedback I received was even that would be um >> when you said feedback where's that feedback >> uh manager's office >> maybe push
>> given what you know the gap I I understand there's like a $13 million gap I'm not sure what sort of initial information would have been shared um so it's hard to add new positions when you got a $5 million gap um anywhere in the organization. >> Yeah. >> Um
so I I mean some of this is just I think to understand over time what what might what we might need to be planning for and how our capacity to take things on is really going to be limited unless and until we can you know meet these needs.
There's there's an education process I think that also is underway. When you said the one, sorry, just a quick clarification. When you said one position that's outside of Meline and the next housing manager and the compliance coordinator
for one >> and I requested >> and what I requested was that that be someone who can, you know, meet our critical needs of housing finance, development, specialization, and someone to support housing policy. I'm kind of trying to
unrealistic to request two, but maybe try to combine them in one. >> Mr. Vice Chair, I'd like to make a motion. >> I move that hack u uh supports um the addition of one more staff member in the housing um department as um uh as
prerogative of the NDS director in this year's budget. >> Is there a second? >> Second. So for discussion and I'll I'll start because I had another thought that that actually before we get into the
meat of that um I know myself and many others in this committee at least at the time advocated strongly that the $10 million a year commitment be in addition to any staffing related expenses that the staffing would be outside that $10
million. The original consultants suggested that the 10 million include staffing that a million of that would be dedicated to staffing. So there's a question for us this body as we contemplate advocating. One way we could get theoretically those positions filled
is if we supported the idea that the funds come out of the $10 million a year. Those are it wouldn't be new funds we'd be pursuing. it would be coming out of the that that allocation. >> Yeah. >> So the the 10 million a year we are
already meeting that through fiscal year 2030 and what we've committed for >> um West Haven for PHA. >> Yeah. I mean FY27 we're at 13.7 million. So >> Wow. >> Serious. >> So we are so we are committed actually
at above 10 million through fiscal year 2030. >> Wow. Um, so there's no way to really make the FY21 are some of it is in addition. Okay. the the the best we've been able to do for next
year's budget is request um of the 1.5 million that goes into the calf every year um which is to actually primarily support the calf and hops grants programs um that 10% of that be
set aside like 150,000 a year to support consultants. So when you say the best we can do, is that just like in conversations with city managers on >> I mean the best we can do given the fact that we've already allocated so much to >> I see
>> restricted funding. Yeah. I mean cap is >> that makes sense. >> Cap is small. >> Here >> yeah what actually comes out through the RFP is >> 825,000 for 575. >> Yeah. And then when you divide it up
between 30 50 and 80 and >> it's it's not very much. >> So so I'm wary of >> So I want to circle back. There is a motion on the table. >> So what can we focus the commentary on
that? Yeah. So, I like I like Dan's motion and I was thinking, you know, it does seem like a lot of this and we've all kind of talked about this kind of the filter through the city manager's office is kind of hit a bit of a roadblock a little. I mean, I know Sam's done a million things and blah blah
blah. He's doing great, but um but it has kind of stopped at, you know, and I do think council, like Dan has said before, champion this housing being the main focus of the city. So, just
kind of reminding council of that and pushing back against this filter, I think, is a worthwhile like just notifying council that these conversations didn't act. we've had all these priorities, but we've hit a roadblock because they need staff capacity and in order to get X, Y, and Z done, we really do need to hire like
making that statement more like a more robust picture of what's been happening. I think anyway, I think that's worthwhile. So, whatever. >> Yeah, but I agree with that. Don't talk
to city. >> You're out there. But yeah, I mean also there are, you know, anyone can speak at any city council meeting and advocate for whatever they want, >> right? >> I mean, this this presentation is posted on the hackbook page. We'll probably
post it on our um web page right now will be posted through the minutes of the meeting and it we'll post it on our web page. So, if there was any communication you wanted to have with anybody, you can link to this presentation which includes our
preliminary findings. Um, >> Michael, how does this filter up to you all if you're not sitting at this table? >> It's basically up to you as individuals to like zoom in or check them in. It's like you're not you're not getting reports from this meeting, right?
>> I would that's not actually true that like my president um The real I mean the real answer is it it
the first step would be I think me communicating with other city councilors the existence of this presentation and what it's recommending and then if a majority of council is interested in discussing it we meet we meet with the city manager on a weekly basis and raise
things at those meetings and in those meetings as part of the budget conversation council just communicating to the city manager this is a priority for us this budget cycle and I think he would if a majority of city council gives that direction I think he would adjust but obviously he's operating and trying to understand what a majority of
council is telling him more priorities and a constrained budget and um so I don't know if that answers your question to have a mo have a have a formal recommendation from hack that you can bring to council to say not just hack talked about this but hack made a formal
recommendation that we fund another position because we can't do we're we're at a log. We can't do what we even what we need to do until staff has more capacity. >> I think it can't hurt. I think it
definitely helps just get it on council as a whole's radar. Um because obviously, you know, no one else is yet familiar with the recommendations or the broader conversation. >> Any other further comments before we go
to a vote? And I guess >> we've got to do this before the March presentation maybe. >> Well, I guess one qu comment or question is uh if we if we passed a motion to say that we wanted to do this, we don't really have a draft of a letter as of yet. Is your thought that the motion
would just like we would have a small twoerson working group or three person working group actually work on drafting that letter or you anticipating we would create that language now? >> Do we need the letter? Can we just make an emotion that we that we we support in this budget
funding of another position in housing as um >> I was kind of saying maybe make it a broader I not that we have to do that but I just think that that background is helpful but maybe maybe Michael Pink can fill in and this is just you know the
motion is just a starting point to have that conversation. >> Yeah. I don't know whether Yeah. You know I don't know. So like when on the planet commission, I don't know whether they're still this way, but reports, planet commissioners would give reports and it was nice for me as the hack rep on the planet commission to have a
formal motion that I can say on this date the hack passed this formal motion. So it's not me editorializing, it's just me bringing forward a fact the planning commissioners to consider. But I'm I'm not against us passing a motion than
than delegating uh the the the drafting of a more wholesome a more wholesome language around it. I mean perhaps the way to approach it is like have a one or two sentence motion that passes >> and then have a supplementary
explanation or background >> that isn't necessarily part of the formal motion but is just additional support. >> Sure. >> I think and you mentioned this too. I mean example is like transit communicative priority to managers
increase transit service requires hiring lots of bus drivers. in the initial draft that it would be an increase but it wasn't possible to get all the way to the service level we want. So along with that initial increase in drivers there is a clear plan being developed for how to phase it with you know specific number of years. So there's one or two
positions. I think also having clarity whenever we can or can't do this budget cycle at least you know 3 years we actually are like planning is happening to phase it in um all five.
>> Yeah that's you want to restate your motion in full I mean I think it's important like to have it clear for housing. I move that we um support uh including in this fiscal year's
budget funding for another staff position in housing. Um and um and I don't want to say as pause for a second basically at the direction
of or at the direction of of or discretion of Kelly or whatever that position is. It should be Kelly's. We're supporting Kelly's ability to recommend whatever that position description is >> rather than us saying, you know, we should fund a this person or that
person, >> right? You support the request that's already been made essentially. Right. >> Yeah. And also, but I also don't want to make it clear that this isn't Kelly like subordinating us to to make this recommendation. >> Yeah. and she didn't she didn't ask for
this, but this I want to I want to do this and um but I also want to give her an opportunity to digest Andrew's um don't this is not all of the motion >> as uh as to be requested or
in consultation with the director of NBS or something Well, Cloud might or might not know, but the what I'm trying to get is the nuance that it's not like Kelly didn't say, "Hey, support my recommendation." What I want to say is that I want to give Kelly
the the space to to bring forward whatever position she thinks is the most necessary at this time >> subject to NDS directors. >> And that's why that background's helpful. It's we can say like hack has created several initiatives of its own
accord and spent several blah blah amount of time and has faced trouble in getting it was implemented because blah blah blah and so we support you know in recognition of this difficulty and >> having seen the most recent
>> having report or or set of recommendations >> you want me to make all their stuff in there I can try >> I mean I think we should have recorded because if we're going to make a formal motion, we need to know what that language specifically is. >> We'll scrap that. I'm going to remove.
>> Are you taking notes on this? >> I have a sentence. I can read it if you want. >> Read it. >> Move that the hack supports in this fiscal year's budget funding for another staff position in housing. >> Actually, not this fiscal year. Sorry. Right. It's next fiscal year 27.
>> FY27. >> This budget cycle. >> Yeah. >> Question. Are you are you saying are you also saying that you generally support increasing capacity or staff capacity? Is that
>> beginning with this as the >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point because I don't want it to come across as this is it right like >> hire one person and we did it. So that's it. This is the first as a first step toward create a realistic plan to
implementations >> as a first step towards building out staff that will be necessary to implement the the the vision of council around affordable housing. um necessary first step we recommend
um including in this year's budget cycle uh the inclusion of funding for the inclusion of one more >> staff member at least one >> at least one more staff member >> is outside the 10 million >> yes that's important to clarify
>> what did I say Mike >> in addition to yeah above and beyond the $10 million annual This is why everything's hard. >> And it has to be an amic. Okay. >> If you want to uncover not I move that
hack make a formal statement in recognition of the difficulty of implement sometimes way better at this than I am. Keep going. for the difficulty of implementing
the city's stated housing goals and um related programs such as blah blah blah. um
due to its staffing capacity. Therefore, period therefore hack would like therefore hack recommends that city council
um adopt NDS's request for a an additional staff member, at least for at least one
additional staff member to be more um which such I say such too much. Which such member shall be at Kelly's discretion?
Um, the hack points to the preliminary findings of Andy and notes that two additional that at least two additional
at even further. >> Wow. at least two additional staff members will be necessary in the coming fiscal years. Um
yeah, okay. >> Can you read it back? >> I move that hack make a formal statement in recognition of the difficulty. Uh, I'm already thinking about it better. Have the difficulty of implementing the city stated housing goals and related programs such as blah
blah blah due to its staffing capacity due due to it >> staffing capacity. >> Due to its what? >> Limited staffing capacity >> due to its limited staffing capacity. Therefore, Hackerman recommends that city council adopt NDS's request for at least one additional staff member, which such member shall be
at Kelly's discretion. that could be that her language, but the hack points the preliminary findings of Andy and notes that even further than the one even further than the one staff
member mentioned above at least two additional staff members will be necessary in the coming fiscal years. >> I'll second a motion just to get on the table. Um, >> so you withdraw your original motion. Now she's making this shorter. Okay. Um, >> Kelly, does that throw you under the
bus? >> So, >> why does it in casual conversation she mentioned that she's asked city manager for an initial staff member? I'm not sure that that's like well it's public information part of this thing but would you rather
this come from the hack and not seem to have come from us supporting internal conversations that you've had with the city manager's office. >> That's a good question. I think I think what I'm what I'm hearing through all this conversation is that you are really you affirm the need for additional staff
resources as identified in the 2026 NDS housing program evaluation and you request funding for at least one new position for the housing program in fiscal year 27 with additional positions to be funded in future years. Is that what I hear you saying? >> That is a motion that I would like to
make. I think that's a great I think that >> would you I'll withdraw my second to that motion >> and adopt that motion. Is there a second? Well, Kelly
>> you're saying so moved >> second. >> Yeah. What is it? Oh, she was writing it. Okay, perfect. I move that the hack affirm the needs uh for additional staff resources as identified in the 2026 NDS housing
program evaluation and we request funding for at least one new position for the housing program in fiscal year 2027 with additional staff increases in the coming years. >> Beautiful. Okay.
>> Do we need to insert the outside of the 10 million Um, additionally, this motion recommends that the funding not be taken from uh uh prior commitments. >> Honestly, I think >> I don't think we need to say that.
>> I strike that part. >> You have a first and a second. Any other discussion? I again I do want to talk about how sorry like this is necessary to do all the things we want to do like this is
like step zero. >> We can write a letter. I mean we can write a letter that's independent of the of the motion but we can get the motion moving forward and then have a backup letter that that goes along with this. >> Want to do that? >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. That makes sense. All those in favor >> any opposing passes >> I'm so eloquent all this by the way a fun fact the city
spent million dollars to tourism board out moral gives million addition >> and it doesn't host events it doesn't sponsor anything >> yeah but there's nowhere to see >> all they all three million only goes to
digital social media ads. >> Oh my gosh. Are you >> That is so much more important than >> what? >> You know what? So move. >> Yeah. Um so before public comment next meeting is
March 18. >> We're gonna be in space. >> Not here. I went city space today. Uh, sorry. It's not your fault. >> Um, so city space next time. All right, open up to public comments. Anyone who would like to make comments either
online or in the room. >> There's no one online. and support the hack and hopefully constructed said letter and being able to represent at least from far perspective because we do
believe in understanding that affordable housing is a necessity and we want to make sure that we are in support of that. So I appreciate the construction and the labor of love that went into everyone >> can be now better informed about the needs. So thank you.
>> Thank you. Thank you Latricia. Uh with that I will adjourn. >> Thanks everyone.