Okay, I call to order city council meeting of December 3rd. Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Mr. Norris >> here. >> Miss Smith >> here. >> Mr. Hua >> here. >> Miss here. Miss Galvin >> here. >> Next is awards,
recognitions, and announcements. Jim Tolbert. Jon, >> what an entrance. >> Walk friendly community. This is a fun thing I get to be here for. Uh, I think Mr. Jones sent you a
notice about this, but uh, little publication came out uh, just recently, walk friendly communities, and Charlottesville was identified uh, in the rating. There are several levels. There's a platinum level, gold level, and silver level, and bronze level. And
we scored actually scored a uh silver level. So, >> uh we were recognized for the efforts that this city has made for pedestrians. And uh we have some room to grow, but there are only three communities in Virginia that were recognized. And so,
it's pretty good to be one of those. Uh Alexandria was a silver and Arlington was recognized as a gold level. So, >> we want to shoot for the platinum level, >> but uh it's pretty good to be in this uh uh recognized this way. Absolutely.
>> And so, we just wanted to make you aware of that. >> We've got a copy of these for you. Uh we'll get one to each of you. Uh and it's got a nice little write up uh on every uh community, including us. Great little picture of the uh of the downtown
mall. uh and uh there's some really interesting uh information in it about uh best practices for uh sidewalks, trails, and other pedestrian activities. So, uh we can learn a little bit from the book, but we also get the the pleasure of being recognized. So, we
just wanted to make you aware of that. And I think this speaks to the efforts that council has put in focus on improving our pedestrian network and our pedestrian activities over the last several years. So, >> tell Arlington, "Watch out. We're coming." >> Thank you. >> Yes. All right. Thank you all. >> Thank you.
>> I have two announcements. First is about time capsule about our celebration of 250th birthday. There'll be time capsule burial ceremony at 2 p.m. on Sunday, December 23rd at Lee
Park. So, Sunday, December 23rd, Lee Park, 2 p.m. Please come and join us and be part of our history. Second holiday market. We have a we want to encourage people to shop locally in the
holiday season and there will be a holiday market from 8 to 8:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. on Saturday through December 22nd on Water Street parking lot. So you're welcome to do shopping there. Also there's some other announcements. >> Okay. Um I'd just like to announce the
ribbon cutting for the Jefferson School City Center. It's been a long time coming. A lot of people have worked very hard to make it happen and it's actually opening. It's going to be on December 11th, which is next Tuesday, I believe, at 10:00 a.m. So, the public is invited. I hope you'll be there. And also, just a
a notice that the MO, the Metropolitan Planning Organization, which was scheduled to meet last week and was postponed, the meeting will be tomorrow at 4 p.m. >> Just notice. >> Um, Mr. Mayor, I believe we're going to be hearing about uh this in the public comment as well, but I wanted to um make
sure that everybody's aware. Uh, we do have a young person who is missing from our community. I know his family and his friends are very much concerned. If I could have Okay, good. I was going to ask the cameraman to focus real tight on this flyer here. Uh, Deshad Sage Smith
uh has been missing since November 20th, 19 years old. If anybody knows anything about his whereabouts or the whereabouts of Eric McFaden, uh, please call Crimestoppers at 434-9774000. There's also a very active Facebook page
um regarding uh Desad's disappearance called Find Dashad Sage Smith. Uh please anything that you may know, any information you have, please share it with us so that we can bring him home to his family and to his loved ones. Thank you. Also um
I'm very pleased to announce a new initiative uh that our regional library is undertaking um called the fresh start program. Um, this is uh thanks to one-time funding from the city of Charlottesville, all children who live in the city under the age of 18 are
eligible to have all of their fines and fees on their public library accounts paid off in full at no cost to parent or child. Uh so if any children um would like to have uh take advantage of this
one-time amnesty program opportunity, uh they need to get a what what's called a golden ticket, which is available at all city school libraries as well as other youth service organizations and present that golden ticket to one of three uh uh
library branches between December 22nd and January 6th to have their cards cleared. cleared and they can present them at the Gordon Avenue Library, the Central Library downtown, or the Bookmo. Um, and and again, what that's between December 22nd and January 6. It's a
great opportunity for all Charlottesville children to have a fresh start with their local public library. Um, and last, I wanted to um uh move the appointment of a couple individuals to our uh airport commission, Mr. Gregory
Edwards and Mr. William Kho. >> I have a second. >> Any discussion? Vote. Thank you. Are the other announcements for council or staff?
Thank you. Next item on agenda is me by the public as our procedures are we have we allow for 12 speakers in the start. If there are more than that at the end of the meeting, you'll have a chance to speak and you're welcome to stay or come back
as you like. But if you limit yourself to three minutes, we'll appreciate that. And then I have list your sign list. The first one is Naomi Roberts. Mr. Mayor, Memphis Council, Naomi Roberts, 1140 St. Clair Avenue. I'm back
here again. I've been here since 2007 Omega Drive. It has not gotten any better. And if you will recall, uh, some of you may be old enough to remember when three out of town students
mistook Mickey Drive for a way to get to the Fashion Square Mall. However, there was a branch that was overflowed because of uh a downpour. They were killed because there was no guard rail at the
end of Mickey Drive. That was corrected. But three people lost their lives. And I remember been here since 1955. East High Street, Charlton Oak service station, and the light there. It took a
ministry's wife to get killed way back when before that light was installed. Are you all going to let someone get killed at Nikki Drive before you do anything about that?
Just this week, a tractor trailer came down there and almost hit a car. They will not pay any attention to those lines. It was a waste of money, waste of time. And I'd like to know what you all plan to do. at least have the police
monitor the situation, be present there where the drivers can see them and possibly if they don't adhere to the traffic, pull them over and give them a ticket. Something has to be done because someone else is going to
get killed. Now, another matter that I have is with the fees for this for the um uh storm runoff. I'm not against the fees.
However, what I am against is that we rebuild our infrastructure and we don't keep it up. An example, Belmont Bridge. I remember when that bridge was built. Nothing's been done to
it. So, it's falling apart, crumbling apart, causing taxpayers more money. The mall was re was bricked way back when and my tax dollars had to pay for it to be redone. Are you all going to continue
building and not keeping up our infrastructure? Thank you very much, >> Paul Long. My name is Paul Long. I live at 1410 Grady Avenue here in the city. Mayor UA and members of the city council. A little bit over two years ago, I
approached the council at a public segment section when the city had a 10 billion million dollar surplus and asked the council to appropriate $3 million of that for agencies that were dealing with the homeless. Now, realistically, I
didn't expect city council to appropriate the $3 million. What I was hoping for was the open discussion on the city's response to the homeless situation. David Benorian, who was the first prime minister of Israel at the for formation
of the state of Israel, said that he had no need for Carl Marx Marxism because he had the whole tradition of the Hebrew prophets. And the reason I'm mentioning that is in the Judeo-Christian tradition with all due respect from some for people who are not part of that
tradition, there's a great tradition of standing up for the defenseless and the homeless and feeding the hungry and housing people who have no housing. And I think that there's a mean-spirited feeling amongst many of the people in this country and in the city of Charisol
for those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves homeless. And I don't see any long-term strategy either nationally or in this city to helping the homeless to get them out of that situation and get them into a place where they could lead a productive life.
One of the greatest thing privileges of my life in Pennsylvania where I was raised at we when you register to vote you register by party and I was very proud when I registered to vote to register as a member of the Democratic party. I still consider myself a loyal
Democrat even though I run for office down here as an independent. And the Democratic Party that I am proud of is the party of Andrew Jackson, William Jennings Brian, Franklin Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, and Robert Kennedy. And the Democratic Party of 40 and 50 years
ago is not the Democratic Party of today. President Obama won re-election. Thank God he did. I contributed to his campaign. But all I heard was, "We're fighting for the middle class." And thank God the Democratic Party is because with the economic meltdown, the
Democratic middle class needs people to defend them. But there was a time when the Democratic Party stood up for the people who were immigrants, who were homeless, who were down and out, and they were very proud to do that. I haven't heard the Democratic Party talking about doing stuff for the
homeless and for the poor since Lyndon Johnson. And that should change. You know, Governor Romney was very mean-spirited in some of his comments, but unfortunately, he speaks for a great many Americans to our shame. No American should be living out in the streets.
They should have housing. No person, no, they should have adequate food and medical care. And it's incumbent upon this city council to start working in that direction as well. Thank you very much. I appreciate that you people waited for your clapping after the finishing that
will be very very helpful not interrupting in the middle. So it's very kind of you if you because we only 12 people who can speak in the start. If you do not get a chance to speak and if there's somebody speaking and you support them at the end please stand up
to acknowledge that or clap whatever you wish to do. Next speaker is Marco Brown. >> Hello city. Hello city council. Um my name is Marco Brown. I've been homeless and less fortunate for about a year and a half now. Um I want to
express some issues and concerns I have about the pan handling ordinance the city of Charlottesville is trying to pass. myself and myself and many others in my situation know is a violation of our constitutional rights and at the same time we have tried to comply with
the law of the land the law of the land and have yet to have see some respect from the city and the citizens who are supposed to uphold the law. As we all know the economy is still on the rise and jobs are very hard to come by. Although no one said it would
be easy myself and others in my situation, don't expect it to be easy, just fair, just fair for everybody. I'm not proud. I am not proud and could never have imagined having to sit on the downtown mall and holding a sign just to make a
few dollars so that I could feed myself and purchase the necessities I need to take care of myself in this hard time of not being able to have a job. Um, may I say once again, jobs are truly
hard to come by. Um, I I find myself having to humble myself to prepare for the war I have to face dayto day. And said, as it sound, yes, this is how I feel. I truly feel. I find that I
have to set aside my pride just so I can do what is required of me while I hold my hold my sign. It truly hurts when I see that more fortunate stare in disgust at the disgust at the poor and know and and to know that no they hold so much
hate for the less fortunate for what reason I don't know but if I took a guess guess it would probably be because they have never gone through through the experience of spiritual trials we go through on a day-to-day basis. It feels
like it feels like what one of what one of my signs reads. Many may fear but others don't know. The reality of the situation is somehow never hit rock bottom not knowing when when the next dollar is going is coming their way
where they will get their next meal or where they will lay their head down at the at the end of a long day just to get some need well needed rest. um and to prepare themselves. Well need well needed well needed rest
and they were and where they will find decent clothes to wear to to go job hunting or to find or to interview. I'll be the first to admit Charles we Charles we do indeed have a problem. The floor will not get get clean if you
sweep the dirt underneath a rug and pretend and pretend it's not there. And that is how I I see the citizens of Charlottesville what are doing if they pass the panhandling orders myself among others others in my situation. >> Your time is up if you can wrap it up. I
appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We are huge. Sorry, Mayor Huja City Council. My name is Amy Marshall, 1717 East Market. I am president of Charlottesville Pride
Community Network, an organization representing the LGBT community in Charlottesville. Not quite three months ago, Charlottesville had its first ever gay pride festival. Along with over 1,000 members of this community, both gay and straight, every single member of city
council was in attendance. Um, so you guys know about that. Uh, I don't think that you maybe understand that your presence had an absolutely huge impact on our community. Uh, it sent the message that the leaders of the city not only care and their hearts, but they're willing to commit their time and their
energy to actually show up. Um, it was a fun festival filled with music, dancing, bouncing balloons, drag queens. One of the many people who attended and enjoyed this event was the Des the Shad Smith, also known as Sage. A transgendered teen from our community who has been missing
now for 13 days. We are so grateful that you came to Lee Park on that day in September for the Pride Festival, but only one of you showed up to Lee Park last Wednesday for the vigil in support of Finding Sage. Supporting LGBT equality in this city is
not just about going to the fun events. Recently, two events have happened to the LGBT community. One was on November 15th, the UVA student attacked due to his perceived sexual orientation, and the other is the disappearance of Sage. We all appreciate the efforts by the police and the members of the community
who showed up for the search party last Saturday um and to the vigils that have been held. And I'd like uh everyone who's here uh in support of Dashad, Sage, if you guys could stand up so that we can see who's here tonight.
Thank you. Um, you can sit down now. Um, we are here because we feel there have been some missed opportunities. There is growing frustration and anger due to the perceived lack of priority placed on these events by the media, the police,
and the city. People look to past cases of missing persons where the family had resources to hire a PR firm in order to keep the issue constantly out in front of the public eye. and they wonder if what this looks like is true. That we live in a city that poses as this
liberal mecca, but when it comes down to it, privileges, money, race, and social status. Do we live in a city where if you are not a person of privilege, whether due to your race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, your socio economic status, that you will not get
the equal treatment when a tragedy occurs. Are we secondass citizens? This leaves members of our community feeling less safe, less protected, and like they matter less. Overall, these perceptions of discrimination may be, and I hope they are, misperceptions.
And if so, there needs to be better communication. To that end, we need to know, and the individuals affected by these events need to know. We need to see and hear explicitly that there is concern for their suffering like there is for anyone else's and empathy for
this student and this teenager and their families. We need your >> Can I just finish one really thing quick? >> We need you to speak out and show that you care. Um there is still discrimination in our community. You just have to go online to see that people are still thinking that because this person was transgender it makes
sense that they are missing and who cares? Okay, it's still out there. We need your leadership on this issue and we need it for UVA as well. There's a rally tomorrow at 2 at UVA to end hate crimes of all kinds. And we would also Charlottesville Pride is calling on all
of you to put your resource resources behind a commission that uh human rights commission for good that seeks to end discrimination in our city. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Nancy Carpenter. Nancy Carpenter.
Good evening. My name is Nancy Carpenter. I live in Alamar County. Uh I have some comments for the counselors tonight and also uh this issue carries over into Albamarl County as well to our supervisors. As city council molds over possible enhanced ordinances concerning
behaviors that for some diminish the downtown experience, be aware that homeless individuals can and are fighting back on ordinances that are going too far. Charlottesville is welcome to join cities such as Salt Lake City, Utah, Phoenix, Arizona, Detroit,
Michigan, San Francisco, California, and Grand Rapids, Michigan, among others, who have had their ordinances struck down and deemed overreaching. Charlottesville staff is considering ordinances similar to these. What these cities enacted were measures that moved
homeless folks out of downtowns, tourist areas, or even out of the city. This appears to be what the city is considering. based partly upon a questionable survey. It is easier to do this than grapple with poverty and homelessness issues. In my opinion,
showing a sign is not threatening on its face and is a very passive method for asking for money. As I said previously, the potential for infringement of First Amendment rights is a slippery slope. If the city adopts ordinances that prohibit individuals from passively seeking
donations, to me, it is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has held simply because the public is uncomfortable with someone's message, the government cannot criminalize that person's speech, the right to beg is protected by the First Amendment. In
1980, the Supreme Court in village of Shamberg versus Citizens for a Better Environment recognized that charitable appeals for funds on the street or doortodoor involve a variety of speech interests, communication of information,
the dissemination and propagation of views and ideas, and the advocacy of causes that are within the protection of the First Amendment. Lower courts, especially the Seventh Circuit, have held that people that panhandle for money cannot be distinguished from organizations asking for financial
assistance. Just because seeing poverty is inconvenient or annoying is not a strong enough argument for this council to justify prohibiting certain kinds of speech. You cannot legislate your way out of this issue. And as an aside for Miss Roberts, uh, Co Pepper about 30
years ago had a similar traffic issue with Route 29 North and the uh uh then um shopping center called Dominion uh Dominion Square. They had a belt center. It was an unlighted intersection. There were lots of near misses. There were lot there were lots of comments at town
council and to the state to please put a traffic light in there. Please put a traffic light in there. And unfortunately, it took the the death of a toddler uh at a T-bone type accident before that light was installed. In fact, that infant was decapitated and there were a lot of first responder had to go through a lot of heavy duty
counseling because of the severity of that particular accident. So, I hope that in the future the city and the state will get together and light that or do something with that intersection. I do agree it is very dangerous for residents. Thank you. Stop Randy.
>> Good evening. My name is Scott Bandy. I live at 1639 Cherry Avenue. Uh you are probably now well aware about the news in the decision with the April 2nd set date special election for the
constitutional office of city treasurer. Yes, even I have to confess I was rocked by a bit by this news. Yes, this is something different outside what the rest of us are usually expecting from a one party cityrun government. For the
sake for for the sake of everyone's civic-minded capacity, I take this moment to thank Jud Hogshire for deliberating and reaching the decision he did in calling for this special election. Though mere words are insufficient, a
citizenry at true liberty deeply thanks him. Now within the stopwatch seconds remaining, I turn my remarks toward this elected city council. the audience in both this hall and public access television. Now that the given expense
and assured civil right for this special election must be held, I petition this council through the appropriate state legislative channels to arrange also for a referendum on the matter of electing
candidates to city council. I would also humbly request that you ask the Commonwealth of Virginia's legislature to consider a multi-choice referendum but between the choices of A retaining
elected counselors by at large B electing counselors by mix of both at large and at wards or C electing counselors by just wards. I close by drawing attention to the fact
I've been before you on several occasions. I remind three of you that of of public duty because I ran with you also in the election of 2011
as a matter of smart citizen focused government as invoked by city council's very own 2025 vision outline. I beseech you too, while the window enrichment of the state legislature business is still
open to consider having the question of how we elect our city council brought forth on the ballot this year. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jeff. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of
the council. My name is Jeffrey Fogle. I reside at 215 Spruce Street here in the city. Uh 7 months ago, I presented a proposal to this council to eliminate jail sentences from the offense of simple mere possession of marijuana. At
that time, the council was considering a resolution which part of which passed calling on the state to consider decriminalization. But even the two people who voted against that resolution were interested in exploring a lessening of the sentences that were involved in in the marijuana possession. Right now,
under the state statute, you can you're subject to a 30-day sentence for your first offense for one simple joint and for your second and subsequent offenses for one simple joint up to 12 months in prison. Now, I think there's nobody on this council who believes that people
should go to jail for simple possession of marijuana. There were a number of concerns raised by particularly by those members of the council who voted against that resolution. One was the message that we were sending to our young people by calling for decriminalization. Well,
the message here is it's illegal. So any concerns you have about the message is resolved by this proposal because it does not do anything other than continue its illegality. There was a concern by Councilwoman Galvin that we focus on local issues. This is a local issue.
This is not a bully pulpit. We're not asking you to pontificate, ask somebody else to do something. This is something within your power and it is in our view your responsibility to take care of as well. And I think most of the members of the council, even those who opposed the resolution, agreed that jail time was
inappropriate for simple possession of marijuana. And so I'm calling on the council uh even though there's been deathly silence in these ensuing seven months about this proposal, whether that was through in administrative inadvertence um or perhaps even a purposeful desire not to reconsider this
issue even though most members of the council at that time indicated a desire to consider this very issue. So the proposal is very simple. the same as the state statute, much as about a dozen of our ordinances mirror precisely the state statute for the same conduct and
simply changes it from the state statute which classifies this as an unclassified misdemeanor with a 30-day jail sentence and a 12 months jail sentence for any subsequent offense and transforming that into a fourthderee misdemeanor which would uh eliminate the possibility of a
jail sentence. It would still be a crime. the disability's attendance upon get a crime about upon conviction of a crime would still be there. People would still lose their license or get limited licenses for 6 months. So the only change that this would affect would be the possibility of going to jail. So
it's hard for me to imagine that there would be anybody here who thinks that people should go to jail. And then sometimes I think well maybe you the feelings of some of the members of the council are well it's not going to happen to any of my friends. Well maybe it doesn't happen to middle class people who are mature. But I assure you it
happens to young people and it happens to people of color and you represent all of us, not just the middle class. So I urge you, I realize that you know you can't take it up tonight and it requires three readings and so on, but I'm here to urge you as are a number of other people who are going to speak tonight to put this back on the agenda and to
consider this very simple proposal which I think meets everybody's concern on this council. Thank you very much, Jordan. Jordan Mcnes, 2560 Beasley Lane. I'm here today to ask you to consider Mr. Fogle's proposal. Before I went to
jail, I thought that only drug dealers or people with weapons actually went to jail for marijuana. I've since learned that's not the case. I had this misconception because very often offenders are cut slack, which in the case of marijuana possession means losing the right to drive for six months, having to pay for an SR22,
mandatory classes, and dishing out over $1,000. Other times, the judge makes an example of people and sentences the heaviest sentence possible. Virginia law allows police to assume that a person with more than a half ounce of marijuana is distributing it. This is akin to
determining that a person with a case of beer tends to distribute it. since no reasonable person would consume it in one sitting. Colorado and Washington have just passed laws that legalize twice that quantity for personal consumption. One of you who opposed the resolution expressed concerns about sentencing
guidelines and a willingness to look at Mr. Fogle's proposal. I don't know how long of a sentence the current guidelines permit, but I know that I was given a five and a half year sentence, six months active. It could have all been active and will be if I'm to
reaffend, as OAR statistics show, 42% of those convicted for marijuana possession do. If I were a marijuana addict, which I am not, the Commonwealth cured for me would be 5 years in prison. This is preferred possession. I do not know why the high rate of
recidivism is used as evidence that marijuana smokers should be incarcerated. This statistic is evidence that either people don't realize they will go to jail for a second possession or that they have an addiction issue that they may need to address. However, jails do not rehabilitate drug users.
This issue needs to migrate from the realm of criminal justice to that of public health. Virginia locked me up with no attempt to rehabilitate me, save the looming threat of 5 years in prison. By losing my right to vote, I learned that this discussion is off limits in Virginia. Never mind that there was no
aftermath. No one was injured. I was in jail with a man my age who killed someone while drunk driving and his sentence was lower than mine. It's almost flattering that my right to vote was perceived as such a threat that it was taken away from me. However, I'd be kidding myself if I let that loss make me feel empowered. He put Mr.
Fogle's proposal on the agenda. It solves almost all of the issues that you guys expressed about the resolution. It prohibits marijuana and imposes a fine on violators. This does not send a message to kids that marijuana is okay. Some of you also said the resolution wasn't city business. Well, ordinance is
city business. Also, from a racial perspective, as long as drug laws have been around, they've been enforced selectively, leaving a massive racial disparity in prisons. Eliminating custodial sentences for simple marijuana possession will help. Based on your objections to the resolution, all of you should be at
least willing to consider Mr. Fogle's proposal. Please put it on the agenda. >> Thank you. Brandon Collins. >> Good evening. Brandon Collins, 418 Fairway Avenue. Um, I'm actually here, as you can tell by my t-shirt, uh, speaking on behalf of FAR, Public
Housing Association of Residents. Uh, FAR is, uh, perhaps one of the most important organizations in the city of Charlottesville. Uh we are one of the few that uh speaks loudly and powerfully for low-income people in our community in particular people who live in public housing. Um just a quick note to all of
you who are here who aren't related to FAR that uh all our sisters and brothers in the LGBTQ community and in the homeless community and those of you who uh uh want some kind of sense of justice out of our drug laws uh that your your struggle is our struggle and we stand with you and we're going to ask you to
stand with us today. Um we're here uh FAR has been around since 1998. We're very strong and well-known organization nationally. Um and cool thing about FAR is that we are recognized by the housing authority and HUD actually specifically
says that the housing authority uh has to recognize us and has to uh uh uh negotiate with us and work with us and communicate with us um to make a better situation for people in public housing. uh CRA has failed to meet that requirement and that is a uh a federal
requirement and I think you all may know already that the public housing in Charlottesville is in turmoil and it's been that way for the last nine months. Um I would encourage all of you to go back and watch some of the videos of past CRA meetings. I would encourage you
to find the minutes for past resident services meetings and look at what kinds of things have been brought up by residents to the housing authority uh about the administration and uh the executive uh uh administration of public housing in Charlottesville. And you will
see that the same uh problems keep coming up over and over and over again and they are not being addressed. Um, there are so many of those things and so much bad feelings in the public housing community that we cannot list them all. I do have a list of some of these things
uh problems with the administration of public housing. Um, and we come to you. We know you don't have a whole lot of power, but you've got a whole lot of influence. You appoint uh those members of the CRA board who we've come to consistently to ask for help in dealing
with uh the executive uh situation with public housing. and we we would like you to get involved. Some of you have heard about our concerns. Um, and they have uh failed to hold any of their staff accountable uh to anything. They've uh failed to hold themselves accountable to
residents and they've failed to provide any just the smallest bit of dignity to residents of public housing. Um some of these issues and I will send you this list but uh consistently approaching policy without consulting the resident advisory board which is far. They have done a great deal of attempting to mess
with other tenants organizations and tenants groups and specific uh members of FAR. There's been retaliation. Uh there's been no response to issues brought up in resident services committee meetings. Um we have a number a large number of policy changes that
have gone into effect without any consultation with FAR and in fact without any consultation from the CRA board. We are asking you uh to do something about this. We we ask for change, fundamental change in executive leadership at the CRA and we would like
to see restructuring of the CRA and all of those who want to see justice and fairness in public housing in Charlottville, I would ask to stand up and uh we we want to change and we think you can help. Thanks. >> Thank you. Uh good evening. My name's Lennisworth
and I have a statewide uh drug policy organization and I'm here to comment on the marijuana issue uh for you and I want to compliment you all on how these meetings are conducted. It's really good. Uh I I want to share with you some
of the results from jurisdictions that have liberalized through initiative or other ways their marijuana laws. In the states that have had marijuana liberalization initiatives, they have had a reduction in suicides,
reductions in auto fatalities, and they have also found now the the latest information is uh as much as a 20% reduction in youth arrests for whatever reason. I think they're myriad and multifaceted, but these are
excellent outcomes and uh I think that it's it's connected to what I was saying before when I was here a few months ago that you know you can wag your finger at children and you can you can say we don't want to send the wrong message but there's a certain point at which that
Pandora's box becomes the issue but we're seeing excellent results from liberalizing marijuana laws and I think that uh this proposal that you have before you really does answer the concerns that you mentioned. Now, um I see this is a continuing conversation
that we should all have because there's lots of facets to it and uh one of the things that was brought up in the last meeting was the issue of schizophrenia. Since then I did a little bit of research and we found out that the schizophrenic
persons have who actually have used marijuana are less likely to commit suicide or have serious negative outcomes. So uh we don't see an epid ep we don't see increasing numbers of
schizophrenic cases with uh increasing numbers of marijuana use. So there's that's a huge open uh question and uh after the last meeting I emailed some information about that to uh to you Miss Gavlin and I hope you read it and what I
want you to do I urge you to do is to read the information that I send forward to you because I intend to do that so that we have all the facts on the table and we really know what we're doing because we do need to be careful. But I
think that be careful in this case involves not putting people in prison or incarcerating them for very minor offenses and reserving those sanctions for more serious offenses. So I thank you very much for listening to me. Have
a good evening. Dear Gilmore, >> good afternoon. My name is Dear Trigmo and I live at 613 Hinton Avenue. Um, I want to talk about what's going on with our housing authority. Um, I'm coming here because we've been going
before the housing authority board complaining and things aren't changing. Um, I know there was a time where the housing authority was under the city and I think that's where it needs to be
because uh it's just not working. We need new leadership. Um, we have people that are hurting and um, if you think you have a problem now with homelessness, if someone don't step up and change
what's going on, we going to have a bigger problem here in Charlottesville. Um, I also want to talk a little bit about Marco because I sat here in these chambers and I remember people coming talking about the homelessness on the
mall. That was on a Monday. Y'all talked about how people sat around on the benches and they was bagging. By Friday, it was on the news. Y'all went down and the benches were removed to keep the homeless people off of the mall. So, if you can do that in a number
of five days and we've been talking about our housing authority probably five years and nothing has been done, then I know that something can be done. I know that um things need to change
because I look at him and I and I also sat here and I heard y'all talk about jobs, ambassador for the mall. Why not take a homeless person and give him that job? What better person to be an ambassador for the mall than a homeless person? You also talk about someone
picking up trash. Give them a chance. give people a chance. Then once they come up, then they can reach back and they can help someone else. You know, the only thing they're asking for is a chance. Nobody is asking for a hand out.
They want a hand out. So, I feel like if with all the money and the influence that we have here in Charlottesville, all the pain and suffering that's going on with the lowincome community, with the homelessness, it should not be happening. Because what you need to think about is if it was you, how would
you feel? And I always quote this proverb. It's 21:13 that says, "Whosoever stopeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but should
not be heard." Have a blessing. Last speakers, please come forward. Hello, I am Shamura Cooper and I reside at 713 F6 Street, Charlottesville, Virginia. And I also too would like to come today and just talk about the leadership of the Charlottesville
Redevelopment and Housing Authority. Um, from my understanding, um, the council appoints the people that sits on the Charlottesville redevelopment and housing authority board. And I just think that that need to be revisited because we've been coming back time
after time expressing our concerns about the housing authority because it right now the housing authority is at the all-time worst. Families are being broken apart. Um, confidentiality has been broken. Um people are being homeless and nothing is being done and
nobody's being heard. Um we talk month after month saying the same thing and we just feel like we at a point where we're tired. Some we need change. We come every month we say the same thing over and over and it's almost like we are
broken record. So, I really hope that um the city council can take a look and um just go back and revisit the minutes and hopefully that um maybe y'all could have a word with the board and just let them know that we are people and we would
like to be treated as so. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody who would like to speak again, we need to wait till the end of the meeting. There's and you had another chance to speak. >> Yes, sir. >> I'm from out of town. If you could just
give me one minute. This is the gentleman's grandmother. She said if I could just give >> Please go ahead. >> My name is Kenneth Jackson. I live at 317 High Rock Road in Rice, Virginia. I'm born and raised here. moved eight
years ago after my daughter graduated Charlottesville High School with an advanced honors diploma. One time I was proud of Charlottesville. I can tell you in Prince Edward County that's all I ever bragged on is how we should be like Charlottesville.
But I can't brag on Charlottesville when my little 19-year-old cousin is missing. I've been told, "Well, when the Harrington girl went missing, her whole family had money. shouldn't have money for the law to do what it's supposed to do. I've known Chief Longo when he first
came here. Chief, the police department has not done what it needs to do to find our child. This is not the first child I've had a 14-year-old cousin, Little Woodfall, who's been missing for years.
This makes no sense. Is it because they're black? Is it because they're poor? Because that's the only thing I see. And I've been in this city a lot longer than some of you. My family's been in this city. They helped build this city and this county.
>> Called your office, Mayor Jones. You don't return people's calls. I've got news for you. Even if I don't live here, when I come in this city, you're a part of this state. I'm a citizen of the Commonwealth. I should feel just as safe. My daughter
still lives here. My niece still lives here. the rest of my family lives here. If this young man can go missing and we don't call in the state police, the FBI, and any other resources we can to find them or to find any of our other missing
children, how dare you? You're the leaders of this community. And I've got news for you. Your gay community, which I'm a part of too, your black community and your poor community are not feeling safe. And make no mistake, just like you got
elected, they'll vote you out. >> As a Democrat, I have never seen this committee. So unreflective of the citizens. >> That's right. >> We've always had blacks. We've always had minorities. We've always had whites.
And we've always had women. We look like the Democratic Committee. What happened in eight years? What happened? Did blacks not be to become kind of good enough for you? Were we not educated enough for you to sit
right there with you? >> Mr. Huji, you came in this city plan. >> Yes, sir. >> You helped build this city. Keep it together. Bring it back to what it was. Most of all, find Desad Smith. Okay. >> Thank you.
>> THANK YOU. IT'S TIME FOR comments by city council members. >> I I don't I'll start. Um I'd like to first comment u maybe before they leave. Um, one thing that I would like to to
clarify is that I have been thinking a lot about Deshad uh Sage um in the past week. I was out of town when the vigil happened and I did not know about it. I think several of us didn't know about it. So, I'm sorry that we weren't there,
but um we, you know, we we can't read minds. And so, if people tell us about things, it helps, but um but we will certainly be there when we know. And I think that we really do, you know, my my prayers and thoughts are with the family and with the whole community because
this is a horrible thing that's happened. Um the just to kind of keep going. Um let's see. I guess I have a lot of things I could
say, but I I I won't. Um I I appreciate Mr. Brown uh what you said about the floor doesn't get clean if we sweep the dirt under the rug. I think that that's true. I think when we talk about issues of free speech and free assembly on the downtown mall,
they're guaranteed by the Constitution for a reason. I think if they didn't somehow sometimes get unpleasant, we wouldn't need a constitution to protect those rights. Um, and I think that that's something that I believe very strongly and it's the right of the people to assemble, the right of the
people to speak. Um, and I will continue to defend those rights as as often as I can. So, thank you for being here. Um, let's see. And I will also say that about the the marijuana possession uh plea. I was one
of the folks who was not particularly in inclined to consider taking away jail time for marijuana. It's not that I think people should be in jail for marijuana. In fact, there are a lot of things that people are in jail for that I don't think people should be in jail for. But I've been um
concerned about the fact that in order to get marijuana, you're you're buying it from criminals. It's an illegal act. And it's it it it worries me if it's not a state thing because I do support looking at state laws um of decriminalizing marijuana. Um but I I I've got to say that some of the the
talk today compelled me to reconsider. I I can't say I've come all the way, but I would be interested in considering that at some point in the future. Um, and I think I may have been the the third voice needed to make that something that we might bring to our our council. It's not that I'm ready to vote
yes, so we might want to take our time in getting it on the agenda, but I'm at least thinking about it. Um, and actually to Miss Gilmore, um, when you mentioned that the homeless folks or people who need jobs should be hired as
ambassadors, that's exactly what I had pictured. not, you know, not necessarily homeless people, but people who really need jobs. It's not a super highskilled um you know, you don't have to have a college degree to be an ambassador. You just need to be good with people and you need to know the city. And so I would encourage people who who do need a job
to to look at that as a position because it's exactly what it's for. Um and I also just wanted to to say that for years I've I've thought that we need child care at city council. and your children of course are welcome in this room anytime and they're being really
really good. Um but it would be great if we did have child care. So that's something that that I think we can keep looking at as a possibility. Um but thank you for bringing your kids and for making the effort to come out because it's important and it I know it's kind of a pain sometimes when you have to bring the whole family, but thanks for making the effort.
>> Other council members, >> um let me start with Naomi Roberts. Uh, as you may recall, I I have um supported a stoplight at that intersection for quite some time. And I was pleased to hear uh recently that it is something that the
staff is now looking into um and has at least tenatively uh allocated some funding uh for so that we might finally um see a stoplight there um because I agree it's very important. Um, in terms of uh folks who have come forward
tonight as they've come forward uh in the recent past to talk about homelessness and panandling on the mall, um I would just reiterate once again in from my perspective um as I told I think Nancy Carpenter in an email today, you know, if people are uncomfortable
uh viewing homelessness and poverty, um the answer isn't to try to sweep it under the rug and to hide it. is to redouble our efforts to to fight homelessness and poverty. Really, the focus should be on behaviors and and and if there's threatening and harassing
behaviors going on, regardless of who's um perpetuating those behaviors, that's where I want to see the focus and not um uh uh stigmatizing or criminalizing one segment of the community over another or
or at all. Um and um let's see here. I I am in full agreement. um with Mr. Fogle and uh Mr. Mcnish and others who have spoken about this opportunity that we have to uh address uh I think what in 20
or 30 years is going to perceived as a great injustice the way that we perceived you know prohibition now and and um back in the 1920s I think future generations are going to perceive the way that we treat marijuana now and incarcerate so many of our citizens for
simple possession of a drug that's um actually less dangerous than than alcohol in in in many ways. Um, and the fact that we're filling our jails and filling our prisons um with uh people whose uh crime was possession of this
drug, which the majority of Americans now feel should be legalized, I think is going to be perceived as a as a great injustice and a great waste of resources and of and of human capital and human potential. And so, um, I am in full support of anything that we can do on the local level. Um, I know it is
primarily not a local issue. It's primarily a statewide issue and even more so a federal issue. But, uh, anything that we can do on the local level, um, with regard to our own ordinances to, um, move us in a better direction, I'm in full support. Um, and
thank you to, uh, the members of FAR who've come forward tonight. Uh, it's absolutely important that, um, everybody in our community be treated with dignity and respect. Um and uh that's clearly not happening right now. And uh that's
um uh we need change. We need change in the way things are going with the housing authority and um so thank you for speaking up. Um let's see. And again, I uh I'm in full support of um you know, anything that we can do as a
community to bring Dashad home. Thank you for coming to speak tonight. I know his family. I've spoken to his mother and his grandmother and uh others who care about his uh his well-being and his safety and we really do hope that um um he comes home soon.
>> Go next. >> Uh well, there's not a lot to add. I agree with everything I've heard. Um Miss Roberts, I I cringe every time I go by that intersection and and uh I too look forward to a solution, a better solution than we've had. Uh Mr. Brown,
thank you for coming. You're always so incredibly pleasant and friendly on the mall and and I I've often noted that and I really thank you for that. Um, and in terms of our and Mr. Long, in terms of of our resources, we really are a city
rich in resources. We might not have enough, but I think we've really got to try harder that people can access them and know what is available. Um, I would love to see a a better uh more comprehensive way of of people being
able to find out even just, you know, somebody helping somebody who's homeless or in need or in any other particularly emergency situation to key in a few words and have all the resources that are available and how to access them. really it's so much of it is about
getting them um than um and just as important as making sure that we have enough. I Mr. Bandy, I actually agree with you. Um I think we need a better geographic distribution um of elected officials and um whether that's a
referendum or not, that's an interesting idea. Uh, and I'm totally in support of the legal the the um liberalizing the marijuana laws and whatever we can do. I know we've we've had consultation about
it. I apologize for not being able to bring it right up into my memory banks, but uh definitely we'll we'll um see what we can do about that now that it looks like we might have consensus on it or enough. Um, and thank you Far for
being here. It's always so important to hear your voices and I love your shirts are so bright and cheerful. So, thanks for being here. >> Yes. Um, yes, Mr. Roberts, I I agree and I am very happy to hear that we're going to
be moving towards another solution for Mickey Drive. That was always viewed as a test, as an interim, and it's not it's not working. Um, with regards to everybody that came out in support of of Dashad, uh, again,
as Miss Zika said, myself and and Miss Smith, we were three of us were out of town in a we were in a conference and, uh, had no did not know anything about it. Uh, very very sorry about what happened and I I have actually a lot of
faith in our police department that they are in fact doing all they can. We are all committed to finding the shod and again our sympathies go out to you. Um Mr. Fogle. Um yeah, at that time when we
were talking about marijuana, I was very concerned about the sentencing. I was very concerned about the mixed messages. Um I I do think we're going to have troubles passing anything that's going to be in keeping with state law. I'm willing to look at it, but I also
challenge our council to make sure that we create a campaign to insist upon the dangers of marijuana use among our young people, similar to what we've done against smoking cigarettes. It is not child's play.
Absolutely not. So, yes, I understand to imprison people for this, we need to reconsider. But we cannot we cannot give the message that it is okay for young children to use
this substance when we are trying to get kids to focus and stay committed and to grow in school. I'm very very firm about that. U but I do appreciate the fact that you've come up with a solution that
addresses everyone's concerns. Um the um you know Mr. Collins uh and and Miss Smith. I I think I relate to you that I am going to be going on a a tour of the public housing sites with Miss
Dunn to get a sense of what's really going on myself. As as an architect, I I think I have a a particular kind of perspective to to bring to bear on this. And I and Miss Smith, if if you would like to take me along. Oh, sorry.
>> Dedra, it's the Dedra part. I am so sorry. Um anyway, Miss Gilmore, um I'll call it, uh if if we can get together, that would be great. Um because I do want to see what the physical issues have been as well. Um
and then um I think the one thing I do want about to to end on by talking about the um what we're trying to do on the downtown mall and um I think at the last meeting
there were some very very harsh statements made and uh myself and another counselor actually singled out and told point blank that We could not possibly know anything at all about poverty.
And I want to kind of kind of set the record straight. Just because someone is a professional and someone is sitting on council doesn't mean that they did not grow up in poverty. I did. I know what
it feels like. I know what it feels like to have barely a roof over your head. There was no AHIP in Brockton, Massachusetts. My father was disabled. He was a disabled vet. But because he was Irish American, it was automatically
assumed his liver disease was not caused by diseases contracted in the Pacific as a veteran, but that it was because he was an Irish American. My mother on a nurse's salary, school nurse's salary, raised us. My brother and I kept us afloat. There is many of
us who have a firsthand understanding of what poverty means and I constantly constantly am striving to work to improve the opportunities in our community just like my fellow counselors because I know what it feels like. Having said that,
I've worked many jobs from as a kid picking up bottles to get refunds to cleaning people's houses, as a teenager working on assembly lines, working in restaurants. I have worked with many people of color,
many people in poverty, and I cannot accept in my heart of hearts that they would accept vulgarity, that they would accept menacing behavior in their children or in themselves. My
parents certainly didn't, and we were poor. So, we've talked about slippery slopes. It's a very slippery slope to begin to equate poverty, people of color, homeless people with certain certain
aberant behaviors because it's not true. Our policy is a balance. We're trying to strike a balance between compassion and setting high standards. If we don't set standards, if we begin to differentiate our standards between
groups of people on the basis of race, class, whether they live in a house or not, that smacks to me of this concept called the soft bigotry of low expectations. We don't accept that in our classrooms. We don't accept that in
our workplace. We don't accept that in this council chamber. And we don't accept it on our downtown mall, our public place. It is for everybody, a peaceful place for everybody, regardless of class, race, religion, gender
orientation. That's all I have to say. >> Thank you. >> I agree with most of the comments of the members of the council. Just wanted to address Mr. Long. understand his concern for homeless. I
think um in last few years city council has done fair amount building 30 units for homeless and many other programs. So I'm sure it can be more can be done but I don't think it is we have made some
efforts in along those lines. Any other comments for anybody else? Not thank you. Next item agenda is consent agenda. Would you please read the agenda? >> Item A, minutes for November 19th. Item
B, appropriation FY 2012 year end appropriation, second of two readings. Item C, appropriation 2012 Edward Byron Memorial Justice Assistance Grant, $28,386. Second of two readings. Item D in appropriation, federal realy sponsorship agreement, police patrol at Barracks Road Shopping Center, $30,000. Second of
two readings. Item E, an appropriation in Charlottesville area transit project landscape performance bond release $13,621.86. Second of two readings. Item F, an appropriation of FY 2013 transit grants. Second of two readings. Item G, an appropriation of Runaway Shelter
Emergency Shelter Program Grant, $212,444. Second of two readings. Item H, an appropriation 2013 Department of Motor Vehicles Virginia Highway Safety Grant, $18,975. Second of two readings. Item I, an appropriation reimbursement to city for Comcast celebrate to50 donation, $5,000.
Second of two readings. Item J, an appropriation Almar County reimbursement for the Gordon Avenue Library Masonry Project, $3,4525, first of two readings. Item K, Almar County reimbursement for the Central Library Elevator Replacement Project, $8,96, first of two readings. Item L and
appropriation A to localities fire dispersement fund, $116,218, first of two readings. Item m an appropriation and a resolution funds for the human services planner $63,766 first of two readings and resolution to dissolve the commission on children and
families first of one reading item N a resolution Dominion power easement across Darden Tow Park first of one reading item O an ordinance abandonment of gas easement near Dunla subdivision second of two readings item P an ordinance Ivy Creek Natural Area tenant house lease agreement second of two readings item Q an ordinance zoning text
amendment medical labs first of two readings item R zoning text amendment request for Our housekeeping code changes. First of two readings. >> Miss Smith has asked that item M be removed from the consent agenda for further discussion. So we'll put it at the end of the meeting. Are there any
other items you members of the council would like to remove for consent? >> Item M. >> I was actually just wondering, Miss Smith, >> I'm sorry. >> I I noticed that on item M because I had a couple of questions about it as well. The first part is the first of two
readings and I was going to suggest that we just take it off for the next meeting, but if you have a trouble with both of the parts, I it makes sense to take it off. >> I I do actually. Can we just Yeah, if we could I don't think it'll take long and maybe >> I don't want to remove minutes of
agenda, but the corrections in the minutes which says I I was opposed to >> you got it. Okay, >> you might say it out loud anyway just to make sure people know. >> I was not opposed to ambassador. I was opposed to
funding a new position by the city for advocate. So are there any other items on agenda consent agenda which you would like to remove? >> I'll move that the consent agenda be approved with the uh taking out of item
M. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Is there a discussion? Vote. Next item on the agenda is a public hearing and noise ordinance report. Jim Tber. Thanks, Mayor and Council. This is an
item that u was on your agenda back in August uh of this year. Uh we had brought you a uh potential change to the noise ordinance to up the penalties based on conversations with uh neighbors in the university circle and venal
neighborhood uh related to some issues they were having with uh uh noise from parties and and activities in their neighborhood. Um after a great deal of discussion at that meeting uh it was suggested that because we were also
making some changes in policy and procedure that the police department were going to implement that you not take action. So you deferred any action in August and you asked that we come back to you in uh December and talk about what those uh what the impacts had
been of those changes. Um, and quite frankly what we're, you know, the bottom line of what we're here for tonight is to tell you that we probably haven't had enough time to truly gauge what those changes are. What we can tell you is based on the data from uh 2009 through
2012. The number of calls is down from 2011. There were 312 total calls in 2011. They're down to 264 for the same period of uh mid August until November 8th. August 15th.
>> So each of these is just August to November for each of those years. >> This data is from August 15th to November 8th. Thanks. Right. Everything u and and all the data there is the same period of time. So it's apples to apples comparison. U there was some confusion
in the report because the the number of calls is down. Um, I made a mistake and said the number of verified calls is up. I was looking at the wrong columns. It was non-verified, but the number of verified calls is is essentially the same also. Uh, and actually is down.
It's essentially the same as 2009 2010 10, but pretty down from the period of uh before that. And >> can you explain what verified means? >> I will. Chief Longo is is joining us somewhere and is here. And if I mess it up, Chief is able to to jump in. But
essentially verified means they got there and there was noise, but it may not have risen to the level of being a violation of the noise ordinance. So they got there and they found that there was something that would have generated that call, but it didn't necessarily rise to the level that would when they put the meter on it that would uh rise
to the level of a violation. The you got some extra data today that Mr. Jones sent out and what the police have done. You know, there's been a great deal of cooperation and lot a great deal of conversation with the students in the university uh that the police have done.
And uh the the university actually provided a an extra meter they purchased and provided an extra noise meter for the police. And when the police got their policy in place and the meter and they started the policy of issuing written warnings, it was mid-occtober
before that happened. And so the numbers are uh we don't have enough time on that, but it appears the reason you only have 31 warnings is that the violations that that would cause that warning were issued in uh beginning in mid-occtober.
And so that's when the tickets were in place. That's when the uh they started the the actual uh when they arrived on the scene. If somebody was in violation of the ordinance, they would issue a warning first. And if they went back the second time as I said with the new uh policies and procedures then that
address would be issued a violation notice. So the number of arrest or violations that have been issued is up from three in 2011 to 11 over the same time period. So pretty substantial increase for a short period of time of the number of of tickets given. And uh
as I said, we you know, chief is here can can completely explain or answer any questions you've got about the details, but uh I think the bottom line is we wanted to make the report to you tonight and and provide uh the police here to provide any information. We're not
asking you to adopt this ordinance at this time. Uh we did meet with u uh the president of the venable neighborhood association last week and talk about the plan and the intent was that we would uh we would not ask for you to adopt the ordinance but that we would suggest that
we continue throughout this school year and see how things go with the new processes in place and then at the end of the year make an evaluation and meet with the neighborhood and and and and see where we are. So uh that's what we're here for. Do you like to add
something before we have public hearing? >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor, the only thing I would add uh members of council, the numbers are slightly uh up from what Mr. Tolbert indicated was actually, I believe, 12 arrests or citations and 33 warnings. So, when we went back to scrub the numbers, we actually found where there
were additional uh citations, another word, another way for saying arrest and and also warnings that resulted. I would just say that as you can see from the information we provided you with, this really is a work in progress and we're putting our best for foot foot forward by looking at our practices, our procedures, the way we handle these
calls and want to do so in in concert with both the venable neighborhood and also the university community uh to make for a a quieter neighborhood, but we want to go about it in a way that's just and and fair to all the parties involved. >> Are there any questions with these two gentlemen before we open public hearing?
>> I have real kind of straightforward definition questions. Sure. >> On the the list of violations, what does no UYU mean? >> What's a UYU? >> It's above my pay grade. That's one of those crime analyst technical questions. I I really believe it means there was no
action taken. >> Okay. Well, except that a lot of them were unfounded. Yuyu, >> once again, you're asking something I can I can >> because it's really hard for us to look at this and tell if when you said that found verified just means that there was noise, but it may not have been in
violation. We don't have any way of knowing if they were in violation from this. >> Well, we can we can assume that if there was a violation, there was either a citation or a warning, >> but there's nothing on here that says if there was a citation. >> The reason for that is there's only certain ways that the ECC will allow us to close a car, provide a disposition.
Uh, and that one of the ways is to say that we've gotten there, it was verified, there was either action taken or no action taken, was unfounded. And what what we're going to try to do as we move forward is actually have the officer note in the call history. Now, it's going to require us to go back and
look at each individual call, but actually note in the call history that they verified noise existed, that they actually took a noise reading and what that reading was >> that it was in violation or not >> and whether it was a violation or not. Right now, with the way that that we're able to code the calls, we're not able
to capture that information. So many ways in which doesn't mean anything about the disposition. >> I'm sorry. There's the next column is code. It says either three or two or six or five. That's >> Captain.
>> I need a translator. >> Yes, those are the codes. So codes um verify sheets code uh five and six would be unfounded not verified. >> Code one would be arrest. Code two would be arrest. Code three would be the
verified but um no report or no summons or arrest issued. >> Okay. But verified it's in it was in violation or just that there was something. >> Just that there was something. >> Okay. So one and two means clearly. Yes. Mhm. >> And a warning isn't a warning could be a
warning would be one or two. >> Okay. >> Thank you. That's actually very helpful. >> It probably would have been more helpful to actually put that legend in the report that we gave. I apologize that we didn't >> because I I noticed that like Well, that's part of discussion. I'll wait. >> So, is there any questions
clarifications before we go to public hearing? >> And so, are we're basically just dealing with like a month's data, right? Since we didn't have the machines and all that kind of stuff. >> Yes, ma'am. But a little over a month. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. I have a funny question. When you say arrest, are are
>> people actually arrested and taken somewhere? >> No. A citation could be an arrest. A speeding takes the form of arrest by citation. Yes, ma'am. >> They're charged with something. >> They're char Yes, ma'am. That's correct. >> Okay. >> It's not a custodial arrest. >> Public hearing. I'll open the public
hearing on this item. >> John, 354th Street. He had to leave so he won't be speaking to you. >> Okay. Andrew Johnson. >> How are y'all? Uh my name is Andrew Johnson, 29 University Circle. Um
there's a bunch of guys here from the IFC, the inner fraternity council who have come to talk a little bit about different aspects of this uh noise ordinance and how uh its effects and uh just an all-around view from a few different viewpoints. My my role, I'm the VP for judiciary, which essentially
means any judicial matters with 28 fraternities, 1500 men, uh I I take care of them. So I've gotten pretty used to dealing with uh fraternities when they're in trouble. And um but a lot of it a lot of what we do isn't necessarily reactive, it's proactive. We take a lot
of steps to prevent uh problems from coming up. Uh noise is kind of a tough one because noise is uh not something that can be easily handled. But we revamp uh we revamped our trash enforcement policy and it's been a tremendous success. Uh we haven't had any uh any trash complaints since uh
very early in the year and um the new policy has been uh wellreceived in the sense that it makes it a little easier for everybody and it will continue to be enforced in the same way and it will be passed down and so that's now going to be part of um the IFC's policies. Um and
also uh I can talk I sanctioned a lot of fraternities for various uh you know actions uh to you know different levels of severity and I usually consider three main factors whenever I'm trying to produce a sanction uh for a fraternity and I found these three factors work
very well. Um first of all you had to consider the severity. Obviously uh there's going to be a huge range of things from fights to you know breaking objects to all sorts of different stuff. You got to consider the severity. The second thing you really need to consider and I think this is the most important
is the underlying cause of the problem. Uh and then the third thing is what's the best way to fix the underlying cause. Uh this noise ordinance um does not address the underlying cause. This simply addresses the symptom of the underlying cause. And the underlying underlying cause in this particular
situation is neighborhood relations. Uh the neighborhood relations have been uh strained in the past and we've been uh working proactively to help make those better and uh I think they've been strained in a sense because there's been a lack of communication. Uh there's tenuous trust and also uh there's been a
lack of respect in the past and we understand that we've been taking proactive measures and they've been well received by a lot of neighbors that I've talked to and um going forward we will continue to take those proactive measures even through the new new people who are take our positions. Um,
and then also uh the noise is a symptom of that problem, but also by addressing the neighborhood relations issue, you're not only addressing noise, you're also addressing trash. You're also address like addressing uh just respect for your neighbors. You're going to create a better community. And right now, the
noise ordinance is actually going to be a step back for us because we're going to have to deal with frustration from the students and that's just going to worsen the neighborhood relations from our point of view. the way we see it, uh the the current ordinance that's in place, we've noticed it has been enforced in a much bigger way than any
other time in the past. And uh people have taken note of that. We've taken actions and uh some of the other guys, I'm not going to get into the actions they've taken, but um there's been a huge call to action and it's been received by all all the members and we continue uh we will continue to do that.
Um, so I mean I challenge you to you work work with us in improving neighborhood relations because I see that as the best possible way to resolve this whole situation and um it will harm the least people and it will work out uh for everybody I think in the long run
and short run. So I hope you all consider that. Thank you. >> Andrew Goldberg. >> Hello council. Uh thank you for having me. My name is Andy Colberg. I'm a fourth year at the university. Uh 21-year resident of Charlesville, elementary, middle school, high school. Stuck it out at UVA and I'm currently
the uh inner fraternity council president right now. Um I wanted to touch on a couple different things. First of all, we uh we just wanted to come forward and say thank you for letting the students in on this. Uh we haven't really felt like we've had a voice yet and this is a great opportunity for us because we have been working on this all semester long. This
has been really our only focus, frankly. Um, and it we recognize that there is a problem here, but we also recognize that community relations and building those community relations is the way out of this problem. Not by putting on additional violations to potentially send somebody to prison for just a noise
over 55 dB, which on a decibel reads as um it's office noise or uh slight um kind of water falling. So, that's from the road, not in the house. Uh we're not saying that's a noise in the house. A few things I wanted to touch on. First, though, is just the communication that we've built with the neighbors. I've sat
down with president of the venable neighborhood association. Um UC Circle neighborhood association uh we have had meetings with all them gone to their meetings. We had a big one over UC circle where we had all the students who lived there communicating with each other. It's gotten much better. But the
feedback that we've got at these uh that these meetings has been excellent. Uh we put in a lot of uh measures very at first uh in the as soon as we heard about this in the beginning of the year and they've really really worked. the the student body has pretty much is specifically the fraternity student body
has united behind these. Uh just to list a few, we've redone our party patrol process. We've updated our trash pickup. Uh no parties are outside now. All are inside. That's a massive change since when I arrived at the university. Um windows are always shut. Uh no bands are outside. We have even used mattresses to
cover the windows inside. Uh you laugh. However, the the fire department was very very very mad at us because had anything gone wrong, that would have been a very big disaster. And that is just in an effort to build to kind of stop frustrating our neighbors. Um, but we are the social scene at UVA. And that
is something that frankly employers value. When I got my job this summer, I was told explicitly that one of the reasons that I got my job was because I could interact with people. And having a social life at UVA is not just about throwing big parties. What it is is about bringing people together. And that's an opportunity we don't want to
lose just because uh a sound is slightly above 55 dB. Unfortunately, this year we have had tailgates for the football games in the middle of daylight, alumni events, things like that that have been shut down. And a lot of alumni are really feel about this. However, the reaction from the neighbors that we've
got has been unbelievable. Um at every single meeting, they have said that we were doing very very well. Um they said they have seen a major difference this year and they're like looking forward to working with us in the future which is something that is very very pleasing to me and it's one of the biggest reasons why I don't think that putting through
extra violations is really going to help the situation. I think that allowing us to work with the neighbors is really going to help the situation. Um communication dives beneficial change increased penalties are only going to break up this system drive fear anger and distrust. Um and finally I just
wanted to quickly comment um that in some of these meetings you know I I every single meeting I asked you know what are some things we can be doing as fraternities and as students that could be helpful for you sorry I'm not speaking to this um that could be helpful for you guys uh what can we do what more than what we're doing right now how are you feeling and almost every
single time that I asked that question the answer was we're very very happy with what you guys are doing we're very impressed the change has been big and we don't really have any practical suggestions for you right Now, um, one suggestion I I will say uh I've had a lot of uh meetings with Lahi and uh and
she she's been very very helpful and we've tried to implement um many of her suggestions, but the last meeting that I had with her, she said the exact same thing that it had changed very much and there has been a lot of good that has been done and we believe that that is something that we can build off of for the future instead of putting violations
on that are really going to break up what builds UVA, what is special about UVA, which is that we are social, but we're also smart. we can go out into the world and do good and that's something that I believe that this noise of violation would really really um kind of break up the community for. So, thank you very much. I'm sorry for taking too
much of your time. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Mayor, can I ask a just anformational question or sorry >> in terms of the the changes that you put in place? What kind of reassurance can you give us and give the neighborhood that these aren't going to go away after this school year? Like what kind of
permanence or sustainability do do you have in behind these changes? >> No, absolutely. And that's something that we've been thinking quite a bit about because it's very easy for us to kind of say in this situation right now we're going to do this. Um currently we're going through the transition process where presidents uh who have been working with us the whole entire
time who fundamentally understand the issue uh will now be stepping out and letting the third years um you know natural progression go through. However, I think it's going to work very well and the reason why I think it's going to work well is because these third years that are taking over the leadership positions usually have been working with
the presidents all the way through. they understand the issue. Now, as with any societal change, any kind of culture shock that happens, and this was certainly a culture shock to the university, it takes a little while for that to get established, but we're well on the road to making sure that works. Uh IFC policies, those are on the books,
and those that's something that, you know, we've put in place. Um but I think that it's the transitions that are really going to work out in the springtime. I transition in February, which is about uh after about 3 months of time where the new presidents will be in. So, I'll be speaking with me. I'll be walking them all the way through this
and uh we're going to be doing something in the very early um right after Rush uh which is about February. We bring all the new presidents in. We explain the whole entire new changes to them. What has to happen, what the rules are, how to work within the rules, how to build relationships with the uh the community
and that's something that I'm proud of. It's been my legacy at UVA and I think we're in a better state better place right now and I think the noise violation itself will be a massive step backwards. >> Thank you. My name is Neil Branch and I'm a local
resident of Almar County and UVA student. I currently serve as the vice president for UVA student council. As a local resident and now student, I have always appreciated the interaction and collaboration between students and
residents. I enjoy attending events that bring these communities together. From the Virginia Festival of the Book to the Farmers Market, the university experience could not be what it is without the great support and environment offered by Charlottesville
residents. One thing I believe that the university has encouraged is being an active member of this community. Results have shown students embrace this message. Each year, more than 3,000 students volunteer through Madison House. By the end of the year, our
students have given 110,000 hours of the time. This is not even including the numerous service organizations and consulting groups that work with local schools, nonprofits, and small businesses across Charlottesville. My
fear, however, is that a change to the noise ordinance could set us all back. I realize we are not perfect, but we are making progress. When residents brought forward concerns about the noise, we as students took it seriously. This has created a renewed
dialogue about what it means to be a good community member. Through this, there will be a solution. I just want to close by thanking you for your time and thank you for including students on this conversation. My hope is that with this
spirit of of engagement, we can continue this dialogue of cooperation and collaboration. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Bound. >> Good evening. Um, my point is actually going towards transition, so I think it's timely that I'm talking right now.
>> Say your name first. >> I apologize. My name is Bose Swendell and I live at 33 University Circle. Um, and I am the president of my fraternity as well as I sit on the exec board for the inner fraternity council. So, I think I have kind of a three- tiered understanding of what the transition is
going to be like. And I know that um, we just elected our new president of our fraternity uh, a week ago and the entire conversation focused around noise um, and what the liability presidents would have going forward if the noise ordinance got passed. And there's a lot of talk about whether it was going to
get passed, whether it was not going to get passed. But at the end of the day, the conversation came down to continuing what we've the progress we've already made this so far this semester. Um, I know speaking personally, my fraternity got a warning at the beginning of September and we have made drastic changes to the way that we work our
parties. Um, whether it goes noise risk, making sure the trash is clean up uh the next morning and that that progress continues. And I know that um coming from the neighborhoods relations, we've made a serious effort in getting to know the neighbors around us, whether it's an informal conversation of talking to them
as we walk by on the way to class or like we've talked about already uh attending the forums that the school has set up and that we've tried to set up as well as uh the university circle community. So, I think I'm very confident in the transition and I think that uh I know that the president that was elected is ready for the challenge
and ready to continue what we've already started. Um, and I know as you've already heard from Andy, I'm confident that the IFC can transition as well. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, >> Andrew McGee. >> While he's coming, I just want to say that I've been working with city for
almost 40 years. First time I've seen so many students from fraternity live in city council meeting. So, I'm glad to have you here. >> Or so many ties >> and they're and they're all named Andrew. I don't know. >> Yeah. Well, thank you very much. Um, my name is Andrew McGee and I'm currently
president of my fraternity cinema hall at 130 Madison Lane. Um, a lot of the guys have spoken tonight about transitions being made um with their presidents and many of them have uh some of them have been made. However, many of them have not. And in talking with my counterparts from other houses, I'm seeing a recurring theme. uh those who
thought to be the next leaders of the institutions have foregone this opportunity have told and in in my checkers have told me that the proposed changes and penalties due to the city's noise ordinance are too high. The risk to themselves to their record is too high. The class of misdemeanor that it
will be will be u sent uh put forward and the fines that come along with it. Students are wary to take on the roles these positions in the house. Well, I'm not worried about the transition that will that will come from you know before uh tonight and uh in February. I'm confident that we can make these transitions. However, I'm afraid that
some of the best leaders that this university has to offer are not being um are not being proposed are not being sent forward um before the community. Uh the philanthropic events of the community which raised over $300,000 um and again said over $100,000 in manpower. Uh the educational benefits
for students. Um the GPI for uh the Greek uh uh institutions is on average higher than uh most of the other undergraduates. um and the experiences that bond the university students a unique way are just a few of the positive uh effects that the UN university uh sees from the
Greek uh institutions. Um without the right leaders in place, the Greek system at UVA will put itself in a position where the benefits might be not may not be as impactful, inspiring or as positive community to the community we serve. This system has long had a great impact on the university as a whole and makes the University of Virginia and
Charlesville as an extension a unique place and desirable destination for the world's top students and leaders. With proposed changes and penalties, we will rob this community and the university itself as from the leadership that um a lot of these students have to offer. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> No. Hello, city council. My name is Kathleen Laval and I'm a third year at the University of Virginia and I will actually be the upcoming president of the inner sorority council. So on behalf of the inner sorority council, I would like to begin by saying that we are
fully committed to community relations just as inner fraternity council is. And in light of these recent noise ordinances, it is something that we have strove to educate our women because we realize that this is a a concern of the culture and we want you to know that
we're also just as behind it. Um, our goal is in educating our women is to make sure that they know to foster this community relations because it is something that is very important to us. Many of our girls also live within the University Circle neighborhood and just
all throughout that area. Uh, we hope that you'll we believe that just continued conversations similar to what the interraternity council is doing really is the key to solving these problems. Um, the last thing we want to do is create any sort of resentment. Um,
just creating the strongest lines of communications that we can. And I hope that you'll recognize all the efforts that we have made so far. And I can look forward to working with you all in the future in continuing in our progress. Thank you. >> Thank you,
>> Miles. >> Good evening. Uh, Mr. Mayor and members of city council, thank you for allowing me to speak here. My name is Miles Kerwin and I am the president of Theta Kai Fraternity at UVA. Our house is at 600 Preston Place and is in close proximity to many of the neighbors who had previously voiced concerns about
noise violations coming from fraternities. Last year, if you remember, I came to this council to gain a special use permit in order to increase the max the max occupancy for our house. And there was actually a lot of opposition to that from neighbors. After you approved our permit, we began
a renovation and expansion of our house that is scheduled to be complete in the coming weeks. In that time, we have made substantial improvements to neighborhood relations, and our fraternity is just one example of the larger effort the university has made to that end. Our efforts began on November 15th of last year when I met with representatives
from the venable neighborhood association to discuss any grievances they had with our fraternity. Obviously, noise violations were one of their biggest concerns. At the conclusion of the meeting, we developed a memorandum of understanding that outlined a plan to improve neighborhood relations over time. We agreed to add a good neighbor
policy to our chapter bylaws that includes limiting noise from any of our parties in accordance with the city ordinance and with IFC guidelines and to see our fraternity house as a part of the neighborhood fabric rather than being independent of it. I agreed to notify neighbors in person before every
party and asked them to to contact me if they had any problems with unruly students or the party being too loud. I also agreed to have each new president meet with neighbors on an annual basis in order to continue the lines of communication and our relationships built. Since implementing this plan, we've
received zero noise violations or warnings, and our relationship with the neighbors has never been stronger. Simply by keeping our parties contained within the house, closing the windows, and keeping the speaker volume to a minimum, we have received no complaints from neighbors. I believe the key to our success is not in the fear of getting a
noise violation, but rather in our communication and friendship with the neighbors. What started as a desperate plea to renovate our house has turned into new new friendships with neighbors that I've never expected. I now know every neighbor around Preston by name and have never and have and have even
been invited to dinner at a few of their houses. Uh, one house was even taking care of my dog for a month. And, uh, one neighbor who had previously voiced a large concern about us getting a renovation actually painted a portrait, a portrait of our house, which now hangs in the fraternity house. So,
relationships have never been stronger. And by getting to know these people instead of ignoring them, I understand the need to keep our fraternity our parties from getting too rowdy. By getting to know me, the neighbors are able to contact me about noise complaints before uh, resorting to calling the police. The proposed noise
ordinance threatens to hold presidents accountable for all noise violations by the fraternity. I could face up to one year in jail for a noise violation that I was not even a part of. And in addition to being a fraternity president, I'm also a cadet in Army RTC. And with a year in jail, I lose my commission in the military and in my
career in the process. Although we have not received any noise violations so far, all it takes is one loud conversation between two people to set off the police. So, I ask the council to please reconsider this proposal and use my fraternity as an example of what uh student neighbor relations can be like in time. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Rick Jones. >> My name is Rick Jones. Uh just want to say hello to you, Mr. Mayor, and members of city council and Mr. Jones. Um I'm a member of the fraternity alumni council.
Um also a alumni adviser and uh got very interested in this back in August when when this was on the consent agenda and I appreciate you all putting that off. I'm very happy to hear that that staff is not recommending to change the law
right now. Um I think it is early but uh I I will I I would say that that um having read the report I would disagree a little bit. There has been uh huge change certainly from uh the fraternity's part as you said you've
probably never seen this many fraternity men and coats and ties in in here in a in a long time. Uh I have uh met along with other members of the fraternity alumni council with the uh dean of fraternity and sorority life. I guarantee you that this is number one on
their agenda. Uh they have met not only with fraternity and sorority people but with you know all of student organizations. Um uh for a a city that is seeking you know always to to find that perfect
level of mutual respect. You have to remember that um uh a lot of these kids are only 18 to 21 years old. They they do not know every single law that's on the city uh books. And I was interested
to see that really only 30% of the the calls for service came uh with regard to fraternities. The the rest are uh probably some of my apartments and and other houses. And um these these kids
don't they don't know what 55 dB is. We're all violating the ordinance. We've been doing it all night long. Um so it's it's it's uh it requires I think a lot of patience on the the police department. Um I I know there are are
strong abusers out there who deserve to get those tickets, but there are a lot of kids who just they're flab flabbergasted. Um, I've uh been to at least one Saturday afternoon party on a sunny day at a football game and um I
we're we know we're breaking the law, you know, just by having conversations. No music, but 50 people on a deck um is is going to get you in trouble unless the police have some restraint. So, it's
uh it's it's a difficult if city council is pushing the pedal to the metal and saying, you know, we want you out there and we want those me, you know, those decibel meters used all the time. Uh it would be I I think the pendulum going in the wrong direction. Uh I had a couple
of questions and I know I'm not going to get them now, but I'm just wondering uh you all had questions about the report itself. Uh, do all these calls come from, you know, 279 different people or is it the same person calling 279
different times? Or is it, you know, policemen on patrol, you know, on their own deciding that they are visiting these areas at certain times, you know, of the day. Um, but again, thank you.
>> You can get that information from back there. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Sure. Thank you. >> Bishel or Hampton? >> I didn't get a chance to look at the uh large agenda pack. So, I don't know exactly the ordinance change that you
guys are talking about. Um but I have done a pretty significant amount of work on noise ordinance issues in Charlottesville. Oh, uh Bailey Hampton 505 Elliot. Um, and I think that if you want Charlottesville to be like the artistic community that we're proud of
being, that these these rule implementations that you guys keep putting on sound is going to stifle that creativity because if it isn't for house shows and parties, a lot of times like bands don't have places to play. Um, I don't know if any of you are familiar
with the band Pavement, but they got their start playing UBA fraternities. So, if you don't want to stifle that creativity for local bands and touring bands and even people that just want to socialize and gather, like, please don't make a rule change until people have a
good chance to to talk about it with y'all. >> Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak on laws or today? >> Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Um, my name is Sean Carr. I live at 309 University Circle.
Thank you, council. Uh, thank you, Mayor Huja. And I'd also like to thank, uh, members of the fraternities, their counselors, members of the alumni groups, and others, and in particular, Chief Longo. I I I just have a few points to make and a and a few things to say in reaction. Um I I guess one thing
is I think it's a testament. So first of all I'm an UVA alum. I'm a member of the Sigma Kai fraternity. So I get it. Uh I'm also now I work at the university. Um as a scholar, as a teacher, as an educator. Um I I believe everything you said about developing, you know, the
leaders of tomorrow in in the most holistic fashion. So that means lots of things. Um by the same token, I am a taxpayer, a homeowner, a husband, and a father of a four-year-old. and I live in the community where they where they reside. But uh here's the point I'd like
to make that everyone you heard from today is they're doing excellent work and they and they've heard it from us. They've heard it from others in the community in our immediate community, particularly Inventable, but I'd like to remind all of you that this is not a fraternity problem. Now, you've seen the
highest representation here from members of the fraternity and sorority groups, which is terrific. and you are seeing their leaders who are among the best and the brightest and in fact probably the best that UVA has to offer. So the fact that they are here they speak so eloquently they have taken
responsibility is admirable but that's not the whole picture. So as a resident on 39 un at 39 University circle there are multiple homes that are not fraternities or sororities. Now, in some cases, there are satellite locations for attorneys and sorties, but they really have nothing to do with the
administration proper of those or of those social social organizations. That's where the problem seems to reside. As Mr. Jones pointed out, many of the calls that came in in the data set that you saw at the last time this was brought up in August were not calls about fraternities and stories. So, again, it's terrific that they're taking
these actions, but that's not really the addressing of the larger issue. So, I'd like you to bear that in mind as you consider this going forward. Also, um I I'd also encourage all of us and in particular you and the council not to lose the forest for the trees on this one. Um yes, this is about a noise
ordinance. So, we're talking about noise issues and decibel levels and so forth, but really what this speaks to is a larger set of quality of life issues. You know, all the students here, all the students at at the university are entitled to a rich, rewarding, and
exciting college experience. Um but they are not entitled to a number of things. They're not entitled to taking out the street signs. Sorry. Well, I I I'll go on at another time, but those are the two points I'll make. Uh perhaps others would like to say a few words. Um thank you very much.
>> Thank you. Anybody else who would like to speak? >> Yes, sir. >> Hey, what's up everybody? Um see a lot of UVA people speaking on this noise. Your >> name please. Name and address. >> Uh my name is Thomas Jefferson. like the
man who raped his slaves and I live on the street. Anyway, a lot of the UVA folk, I see them all dressed nice coming out here talking about this noise ordinance and I just wish that they put up as much of a presentation and as much concern about like queer phobic violence
and the rape culture that exists in UVA fraternity culture. So, it's really annoying to me that someone will come up and address these very, very pathetic concerns when somebody on the corner was assaulted by someone who may or may not be a UVA student, but definitely
possesses the UVA mindset because of their gender and sexuality presentation. And also, I don't think I need to go into the instances of rape culture that are extremely normalized within this frat boy violent patriarchal millu, but
it's not for me to talk about cuz I have male-bodied privilege. But alas, I would just like people to keep real issues in perspective and really what UVA is about and what it does to people. >> Anybody else would like to speak on this issue of law orders?
Yes ma'am. >> Good evening. Uh my name is Likar and I reside on 39 University Circle. Um my husband spoke and um I will not repeat all he said but only thing I would like to say um as I spoke with a lot of the
fraternity representatives I know they do um they start what it's happened after August it really started the conversation and I think that's great I personally have to say that our family choose not to be in the city any weekend
we were here one weekend starting from August until this can um just because we didn't wanted to deal with it truly. Uh so we were not the people who were making those phone calls. Um also I wanted to say maybe as as we saying you
know this was not enough time to find out if the new procedures uh that police is implementing if they are working or not. I think for some of the uh parts of our neighborhood they working or starting to work but I still believe
that you know over 150 calls no matter what if they're uh verified or unverified if somebody calls at 1:30 in the morning they not calling just because they have nothing better to do and I would like to know next time when
we meet whatever that time will be it's going to be May June um what would be the acceptable number for my neighborhood. Is that going to be the average that is 60 calls a year or it's going to be 150 in 3 months? That's all.
Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak about the noise ordinance? If not, I'll close the public hearing. Comments for the council members. Just just want to make sure that you
>> I have another question. Let me make a let me make a comment if you want. >> Okay. >> As uh you heard we not planning to take any action on this this time. We are hoping to look at the situation for next few months and then we'll see if there's a need for any change.
>> Excuse me. Uh this for Chief Longo perhaps or Captain Lewis perhaps. Um I we actually Mr. Jones's question was I don't know if that's answerable or not as to whether
um you know kind of a profile of these calls. >> We certainly could try to do that. This information comes from our emergency communication center. It's only as good as the incident in the manner in which it's coded by both the call takers, the dispatchers and the officers when they clear the call. It's easy enough to
figure out exactly where the call came from. It is true that lumped into those calls for service are selfinitiated police activity. So not every call for service is an actual telephone call. It could, as Mr. Jones indicated, could be an officer who's passing by the residence when he or she hears the
sound. And when he call he or she calls that information into the dispatcher, it is then created as a call for service. But we certainly could, it would take some time to do that, but we we could break that data out. But I would have to yield to the ECC as to how complicated that may or may not be. And I don't know
if it would be useful data as to whether um it's a fraternity house or a other residence. I don't know if that's relevant or not, but that would be another piece of information. >> We could certainly do that. Also understand that as Mr. Jones also pointed out, some of those um calls may
be coming from apartments, >> right? >> In which there's multiple units. It's difficult to discern where the the sound's coming from. And in some cases, we can't gain access to those buildings, which makes it even more problematic for us. >> Yeah. And uh it and I wasn't sure
whether this list that you gave us, particularly what was sent to us um this afternoon was complete. It it does appear to be generally university related. Is this a problem in comm in other parts of the city that really
aren't associated with the university or with an age group or um >> Well, interestingly enough, when we began the process of issuing written warnings and and actually citing a violation of the noise ordinances, some of the very few first few I should say that took place
didn't take place necessarily in the university community. Now whether it's to the same magnitude, we certainly could do that analysis, but what we've given you is very specific to uh to the university community and only during a specific time frame. But we could do a citywide analysis if it would be helpful.
>> Well, I think and it would be interesting to know if if they're if the offenders are university linked. And I only say that because if we're really primarily dealing with university students, whether they're undergraduates or graduate students or whatever, I
mean, that at least narrows our our focus, if it's really a much broader question, that raises a lot of concerns. And one of the concerns I've had all along is that if we're only focusing on the university, particularly with this one warning a year, we're really
tailoring any changes in an ordinance to just one segment of our community. And I feel like it might bias other parts of our community who might not just, you know, be on that academic schedule and, you know, the, you know, live in a place
for a year or whatever. You know what I'm saying? That's an excellent point, but I I'll just remind you that the the procedure that we've implemented, we've implemented citywide. So, if that calls to Belmont or to Locust Grove or some other part of the community, you will get a warning and if if there's no
compliance, you will get cited. So, what we've taken place now is citywide, but as you pointed out, whatever you choose to do by way of an amendment to the ordinance will also affect citywide, not just the university community. >> Right. And that was my concern and that's why I I say that any kind of data
to know whether this is you know how prevalent it is just within this this niche of a university community. I must say when we were dealing with it before I kept hearing that law students were really really >> not law students maybe business students
or medical students but not law student. >> I heard law students. >> We we can certainly do it by neighborhood for the same time period that we did this run for you. Maybe that might be helpful just as an exercise to look and see what that might look at. >> And again, we'll do it by neighborhood. >> Other questions?
>> Well, yeah, >> or comments. >> I noticed in this report, and again, I understand that there's only so much data we can get out of it, but it's what we have, so we're kind of drilling down into it. Um, that on the last page, which is only a half a page, is is most of the actual citations. So what I'm I'm
guessing that represents is that it it was like the period during which there had been warnings and citations. Is that >> that's correct? >> Fair enough. Okay. >> Because that that certainly um we may start to see some real results from that as far as reduced noise um even if we
haven't yet. Um because there were one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight just on that, you know, the last few on that last page. So um but one concern I have is and and I think that the um oh I don't remember who it was
who spoke um talking about the fact that they had had that oh I guess it was um Miles Kern the instituting a good neighbor policy before we started talking about a new ordinance but um it seems like a lot of these efforts came up because we proposed the new ordinance
or at least with the threat of that hanging over people's heads and while I really appreciate the fact that's happened and I think it's great. I wish that it happened two years ago when this first started really coming up because I think even then the fraternity should have known that they were causing troubles to the neighbors and and no
action was taken. And I think that's why the neighbors feel compelled to try to put this in law because, you know, unless there's some threat, there doesn't seem to be action. And so, while I'm glad there's action, I I'm I'm wondering if we shouldn't kind of keep that threat hanging there. So, um maybe
the the citation uh after one warning, which is within the law that we have now, will take care of that. Um but I I'm certainly wanting us to keep a close eye on that. >> Well, I also I also think it was a teachable moment for the police department as well. I mean, we it we
stepped up our game. This is university. The students have stepped up their game. We've stepped up ours and perhaps we should have done so a long time ago. >> So, I I accept responsibility for that. >> Questions and comments. >> I I do have another question. And when you go when you're called to a residence
and it's a second warning, who do you site? How do you choose who I mean actually was brought up that the you know pe some of these young people might not want to be in a leadership position if they're the ones who get the citation. I just wonder what the policy is.
>> I I'd have to go back and look specifically to the ordinance. I believe we can ever cite we can say whoever has control of that house whether it be the the the actual official person whether it be the lease holder or the or the or the president we will site whoever is responsible for the house at the time.
>> So that is a legitimate concern. Yeah. >> Any other comments or questions? >> Uh yes. Uh I think the the mapping was great. I love seeing the before and after of 2011 and 2012 and that was very very impressive to see where the
incidences of arrest are taking place. I would love to see more of this kind of mapping in different neighborhoods just so that we can see where the patterns are. Um now the I would love your opinion as well about how how can we tackle the issue of the of the
non-raternity problem. Is it something that we could uh you know pull together the property owners, the real estate management companies to begin a dialogue with them just because it sounds like the dialogue that's been going on between the frat frat houses, the sororities and the neighborhood
associations has been productive. Could we move towards that direction as well? >> Well, to the extent we haven't already tried to do that, I think we absolutely must do that. I don't think it's fair just to focus on the fraternities and sororities when we know that there are other either private residences or or
residents owned by larger real estate firms or management uh companies. So I think it's I think it's something we have to do. >> And then the only other comment too is and it it gets to what um Miss Carr was saying is that we do need some sort of a performance indicator that things are
succeeding. And so what what might that be? Um, is it is it a matter of the counts going down? Is that really impacting quality of life? Um, so I I do think measuring those performance indicators in some way to see if there's
a change in behaviors, but also this is something that Mr. Jones and I talked about early this morning related to using a survey tool with some of the neighborhood association members, people in the community and we could do it to different communities but maybe kind of
sampling just to see what engage what before and after like do it now between uh when classes end and when final exams take place this semester do a survey of the residents, you know, survey monkey or something.
How's it going? And then do it another time in the spring semester between the time classes end and the time finals take place just to try to get a gauge from the community in a broader way how they're feeling about the quality of life in the community.
>> Can we is that possible? >> It's something that we could look into and see if we can I'm not sure if we could get it up that quickly, but we'll we'll see if we can look. Again, it's important to see because we're trying to see a change >> how we would get to the neighborhood associations and more specifically to the residents because as we know as we know as important as as the neighborhood
associations are, it doesn't always involve all of the the neighbors and all the residents. So, we we would need to find a way to to to spread it out beyond just the associations. >> Okay. Any last comments? >> I just I want to commend the the members of the IFC and the ISC for all the work
that you're doing. You've really risen to the challenge and I I appreciate that. Um, I think students are more apt to learn from their peers than to learn, you know, if you have an administrator telling them they have to do something, I think having their peers model for them. And so, I would encourage the
community relations office, the offgrounds housing office to really take advantage of some of the resources and ideas in the room here. And you know, if there's a way to uh help uh some of the students who aren't part of the fraternity system or the story system learn um strategies for being better
neighbors, um I think that'd be a great step. So, >> see, I want to second your comments. >> C can I actually just ask one other question of of our law enforcement? Um, and this actually stems from something that one of um, the IFC folks uh, said
talking about underlying causes, and I don't mean to assume that the stereotypes are true, but there's alcohol usually involved in these parties, too. When you go in for a call, is there an issue of underage drinking
that you look into or I mean, how does I would think that would be one of the bigger threats to to a party getting out of control that the police would come for the noise, but there would be further >> ramifications. >> Keep in mind, there's only three ways you get in somebody's house. A warrant,
consent, or exigent circumstances. And I'm not sure a noise complaint would give rise to exit circumstances. Certainly, if the officer can see evidence of uh another violation of the law, he and she she will take steps to pursue that. Uh often times we'll communicate those thoughts through the
university so that appropriate um interventions may take place, but we're somewhat limited and and I'm and I will be very cautious what what how I will allow those officers to act when it's going into other people's homes for for violations of this type. We we certainly don't want them to run a foul of the
Constitution. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. just uh we appreciate you coming all the people who have come and spoken and we'll monitor the situation and in next few months we'll get another report back. Thank you. Next item on agenda is
the public hearing the resolution plaza main street special use permit. >> Good evening Mr. Mayor, city councilors, Mr. Jones. Uh this is a special use permit for increased height and density. Um the addresses of 852 to 860 West Main
Street. >> This is essentially >> move a second. >> Sure. >> Are you going to be making a presentation? >> Let's go the other way. >> Oh, sorry. Are you guys >> Oh, I see. We have been.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, >> unless you want to >> now you proceed to the presentation. >> Thank you. Sorry. After that noise ordinance presentation, you guys are going to say run. >> Um, this was the special use permit that was heard at the November 13th planning
commission meeting. Um, it's essentially the exact same application. and there was a bit of a discrepancy within the acreage of the property. Um, just to refresh, the special use permit was at um 852 to 860 West Main Street. It was for increased density from 43 dwelling
units per acre to 98 dwelling units per acre. That would allow um also from 70 ft to 101 ft for the height. Um the the developments for a mixeduse uh 219 residential units and close to 12,000 square feet of ground for commercial um
and underground parking. Um the only thing that has changed with the application the first um in October the BAR had their meeting and they reviewed the design um and it was unfavorable recommendation but the applicant revised their design went back to the B and the
BA has rendered um a positive recommendation for the special use permit. Um if you guys have any other additional questions um or when any of you weren't at the public hearing I'm here to answer any questions. The applicant is also here if you have any questions. >> Okay. So, is it any other question of
information from the staff before we do public hearing? >> I wanted to um give the applicant a chance to address an issue that came up in the um in the planning commission hearing regarding activity on the street. There was a concern raised that
by having um a significant portion of the street front um facility be uh for um use of a club and leasing space that that would um affect the way that the building relates to the street. And I thought Miss Long gave
provided a very helpful response. I I email her about this and I wonder if I want to give her a chance to share that publicly about how what you're doing is actually might actually end up with more activity on the street. So, can you please? >> Yes.
Please identify your name and address >> certainly. I'm Valerie Long. I'm here representing the applicants and my business address is 321 East Main Street. Um, thank you, Mr. Norris. as and I've had similar conversations with a number of people who've asked about this since it was a topic of discussion
but in essence of the roughly 22,000 square ft of total ground floor space about approximately 15,000 square ft of it will be dedicated to either public space or retail or commercial space. So,
we have a very large public plaza. We also have the space that will be a restaurant or a market of some sort, maybe some combination thereof that will obviously be publicly accessible. And so, of the remainder, there will be some area that we're calling kind of a club room or an activity room that will be,
you know, available to the residents. It is the the goal is really to have that ground floor space be as lively and vibrant for as much of every day as possible. And we were obviously optimistic that with the restaurant or a
market that that would be achieved. But as my clients are telling me with other projects they've worked on around the country where they have a mixture of uses like this with a restaurant or a market of some sort. You know, those businesses obviously shut down, close at regular hours. Sometimes it's 10:00. You
know, the space goes dark. Um there's not as much activity there. At most there may be just people there cleaning or restocking. By contrast, when they have these activity rooms, you know, especially for those residents that are students and um the students are kind of 247, you know, if they're medical
students or they're residents, they may have an a late shift, so they may be there at somewhat unusual hours. If they're um local employees that may, you know, hospital employees, for for instance, may work a night shift, so they may be there at more unusual hours. They're really working hard to provide
the best mix of those uses in that space to increase the chances of having it be most vibrant. And so the the activity room space, which would be part of the remainder, so the what is that remaining 7,000 or so square feet, would involve,
you know, all sorts of activities to for the residents. There would be um designated study spaces for those that are students there. They'll have sofas with televisions. they'll, you know, residents there interacting with each other, maybe watching a football game late into the evening, um maybe having a
discussion group, a study group. So, we think it'll be a very vibrant community there. There may be it's a good way for people to make friends, especially if they're a student or graduate student who's maybe come from another area for medical school, doesn't have any friends here, they can go down to the activity
room, play pool or foosball or play on the Wii or the Xbox with some of the other residents in the community. It really does help foster a sense of the community. So, um, what I indicated to Mr. Norris was just that the vast majority of that space will be publicly accessible, either the plaza or the
restaurant market space. There is this small area set aside for the resident activity room and then a smaller area for the leasing space. But we, you know, we did pay a lot of attention to the comments that were made at the last meeting. And we took a hard look to think about whether there were any other types of more purely commercial uses
that we could work to try and attract to that space that might make it even more vibrant. And what our folks are telling me is that there's nothing that would help make it as vibrant sort of the perfect mix as will this proposed activity room. So >> probably more longwinded than you
wanted, Mr. Norris. I apologize. >> But so the only commercial space is a restaurant or a market. >> The the combination of in terms of publicly accessible. So the commercial space is I think it's about half of the total square floor area is the
restaurant market space and then there's the plaza. It's probably not quite half but the total it's about 15,000 of the overall 22,000 that's combined the plaza space which is quasi commercial because there'll be some outdoor seating for the
restaurant. There'll be kind of a coffee shop graband go area. There'll be public seating area with a fireplace for and for people to just sit and mingle and interact, wait for the bus. That plaza area is definitely publicly accessible, will be open to all. That's roughly half
of that space. And then the other half of the commercial space is we're hoping it will be a restaurant or a small market grocery store. >> One completely unrelated question. Sure. >> Do you do you know off the top of your head what the maximum allowable density on this site is under the special use
guidelines? >> I will pull my notes, but my recollection and Ebony probably knows this from 42 >> 42 dwelling units >> uh per acre >> by right. >> That's by right >> by right it's 42. The maximum that you
can ask or that that the council could approve under a special use permit is 240 dwelling units per acre. And my recollection is our request is 100 98, excuse me. 98. >> But it's by dwelling unit whether it has one bedroom or 10 bedrooms. >> That's correct.
>> So is there a different metric at all that's ever used in terms of people? >> No. No, because this is a I mean to I think it's a little misleading to say 98 dwelling units when you've got four but >> they also
>> independent adults in one dwelling. >> They're also suggesting the number of bedrooms, >> right? Okay. Well, the number of bedrooms is >> is 495 I believe. There are I mean you rais an excellent point and in fact the city did address that with and uh Mr.
Mr. Tolbert and Miss Walden would would be the better expert to tell me, but there are certain zoning districts in the city that are the university zoning districts and and perhaps a few others, but definitely the university housing districts do regulate not just the number of dwelling units per acre, but
the number of bedrooms per acre. This is zoned West Main Street South and is not one of those zoning districts. So it's not regulated by bedroom, >> but it recognizes the university zoning recognizes that student density is a different kind of density than other
kinds of >> As long said, we we we said when we did the zoning ordinance in 2003 in in the university, high density and medium density, we didn't want to create student ghettos by having nothing but four bedrooms. While these folks are not held to that, they have really met the
spirit of that and and and would pretty much comply being in one of those districts by mixing four bedrooms and ones and twos also. So there's opportunity for non- students or either grad students or medical students to live in some of those other places. So while they're not held to that mixture
of bedrooms, they've done that and met the spirit of what we wanted to have accomplished in other zoning districts. >> Then how does 98 dwelling units become 495 bedrooms? Well, because we don't limit the number of bedrooms beyond limiting four. We have a we have a four unrelated rule that in any dwelling
unit, no more than four unrelated individuals can live. >> Be 495 people. >> It could be. Yes, ma'am. Because some of the some of the units are four bedrooms and you would anticipate that those would be occupied by four individuals. >> So, I think you can pretty much say by
the number of bedrooms that would be the number of people that would end up residing there. >> If I could interject, Mr. October. It's not 98 units. It's 98 units per acre. >> Right. 98 units per acre. Right. It's Is it 219 units? >> Okay.
>> That's right. >> Right. But the 495 is per acre or total. >> No, 495 is the total number. >> That's where the math broke. >> Right. They could if it's 200, how many units? 200 219. Okay. >> 219. >> 219. So in theory, they could have 8.
>> Got it. And that's called my math problem. bedrooms. >> So, it's about 200 plus bedrooms per acre >> if if if you're looking under, you know, a different because it's 495 bedrooms. You're >> right. Two and a half acres. >> Yes, ma'am. Right.
>> So, I'm just rounding. >> Okay. Yes. >> Any questions? >> But it could be before we get into discussion. >> Yeah. I actually have another clarification. Is there any um in our zoning um language? Is there any definition of mixeduse
development in terms of proportions? >> No, we we actually uh when we wrote the zoning ordinance, we tried in some districts to say um by mixed use being residential and non-residential, >> but we tried to say that there ought to be a certain percent in some zoning
districts. And what we realized very quickly and we amended that was the market's going to dictate that to a large degree. So what we came back and said is in most of the zoning districts including West Main South that we wanted the ground floor on the primary streets to be non-residential to create that act
that regular activity but beyond that we didn't we didn't define whatever the zoning district will allow as as long as it's non-residential uh is a commercial use or mixed use that can occur there. >> Is the second building ground floor
non-residential? building. >> One building, >> right? >> There there's there's something behind the that what whatever is eight stories tall building. >> It's still all one building. >> So is that ground floor non-residential
too? And in that part of the building, >> it's parking. >> Oh, it's part, >> right? And the and the ground floor is only the street >> frontage there. So it's not it doesn't mean the whole floor I mean every bit of the ground has to be you know you know they could put residential units
although they're not doing it they have parking back there. >> Okay. >> I have I have a question about um flexibility on the part of the applicant um for uh um one concern I have is the the actually the exterior plaza and
wanting to make sure that that stays an activated place. Um, one of the ways you can do that is to make sure that there are doors entering onto it and that those doors have access to something like a restaurant, an eery that again will activate the place. Do you have
flexibility in your program at the ground floor level to to put something like that at that corner? Because that corner is going to be extremely important uh as as kind of a visual as well as a you know just an experience. So, you're talking about the corner that's closest to I guess that's the bridge side closest to the bridge and
the train station. We're actually um looking into sort of rearranging the the location of the ground floor uses and having that area be the restaurant use. Right now, it's proposed the exact opposite end of the building, but the more we looked at that, the more we
realized that that's a natural location because of the the natural sunlight that you get there. It's a more prominent location that would probably be helpful for a restaurant there to have better visibility from the street and to pedestrians. Um, and that would create some more vibrancy there. So, we're
still working through all of those things and we have but that is what we're looking at now that that would be a better location for that better use of that space and that perhaps the activity room would be better served at the opposite end of the building. Regardless, we will that has always been intended to be an outdoor plaza space.
we haven't done as well of as good of a job sort of providing exhibits or renderings as to what that space would look like because we we frankly just don't know yet, but that's where we're we're leaning at this point. So, we certainly have flexibility to do that and the BA has given us some similar
suggestions and input on again and we want to make the space very lively and vibrant because that is what helps make the building all that more successful because it makes it attractive for people who want to live there. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Where's the leasing office? you you refer to a leasing office.
>> It would probably be a small space on the ground floor as well, but they have flexibility there depending on how big of a the market space gets and how you know where the plaza is and the restaurant is and so forth, but that probably would be there. They're they tell me that that's important for again helping people know where to go to sign
up and fill out an application and so forth for leasing. So I have a question about um you know we've talked about this before but about who you envision living here and what kind of mix that might be within the the building itself. >> We think it's going to be an exciting
mix. Obviously it'll be very attractive to students both undergraduates and graduate students just by virtue of its location and proximity to the university. But equally so its proximity to the university hospital makes we think makes it very attractive to uh
medical students, medical residents, uh faculty staff at the hospital. Really anybody who likes the idea of living in an urban environment where they either may not need a car or want a car, may not have a car, may not want to have to use their car at all, be able to just leave it in the garage and walk or ride
their bikes or take the bus somewhere. Um they've done a lot of market study on the area. They've been wanting to to um provide a project in Charlesville for many years. What they really love about this location is is the fact that it can really be it's attractive to anyone. They were realizing with the trolley
bus, young professionals working downtown, it would be very attractive. Even if you didn't have the trolley bus, you could walk downtown. Young professionals, you might have one person at the university, one person working downtown, go in either direction in the morning. Um you can walk to shopping. So really, we
think it's almost unlimited as to who could be there. Um, when we had a neighborhood meeting, was a few, it was a week or so before the joint public hearing, we met a couple who had just moved to the Cream Street um, condominium building, which is kind of on the other side of West Main Street,
adjacent to the train tracks. They talked about how they downsized and moved there, and they're still working, but they just downsized and didn't want to have to maintain a yard anymore. And they loved it. Um, and they were thrilled with this coming because it just provides more people like them living. They told us they think they'll
be retirees living there. So, we're going to market it. They're going to market it to everyone. It will be, you know, students we again we think will be particularly interested in it. But with the variety of, you know, bedroom types and um some of the apartments will be, you know, one-bedroom apartment apartments with balconies. We think
those will be very attractive to younger professionals, young faculty. Um, there'll be opportunities for a lot of people. And what's the kind of rent that they're expecting to charge? >> I may need to defer to them on that. I I believe that that's not been set yet, but they may have some projections.
>> Is there a projection? >> And it depends on a one-bedroom unit is certainly a bedroom and a one-bedroom unit is more expensive. >> One bedroom and a and a bedroom and a fourbedroom unit. What they might >> range from $700 to $1,200. Okay. >> Did you hear that?
>> Per bedroom. Per bedroom. >> Per bedroom. Yes. Okay. Any other questions of clarification before you go to public hearing? >> Yeah, actually. And and so that that's sort of a new a new piece of information, at least for me, um that there there's aren't just all going to
be that student model, that kind of Eagle's Landing for University Place model where it's really meant just to be rented by the bedroom. I mean, are there going to be traditional apartments such that? It's a lovely idea of this mix of
people, but quite frankly, the way that kind of student housing is built, it's very limiting as to who it will be available to or attractive for. Um, unless there's more traditional mixing
of a, you know, kind of real apartment. >> Well, I mean, like why would a faculty want to live there for instance if it's >> We're getting into the opinions though. Let's wait for a public hearing. >> Well, but I just wondered what the mix is going to be. >> Well, I predict exactly what the mix will be. Um, as I described, we hope
it'll be a vibrant mix of students, non- students. >> No, no, I mean the mix of of apartment types or onebedroom. You talk about onebedroom, >> right? We have um then our site plan on I can pull it out and tell you how many exactly we have of each one. Have to do that. >> Um but there is a mix of one, two,
three, and four bedroom units. um it's about half in terms of dwelling units. Roughly half of them are one or two bedrooms and roughly half of them are three or fourbedroom units. Now certainly if you count them as you had by bedrooms as opposed to units, it's a
little heavier on the three and four bedroomedroom bedrooms versus one and two. But they're they are planning to, you know, utilize their standard leasing system where they do lease each each bedroom on an individual basis. So even
if a young couple or even a young family, say, you know, a couple with one child and they wanted to rent a two-bedroom unit, they there would be one lease, but they would be renting two bedrooms >> as part of their lease. So, but with if
you had a an individual living there, they would obviously rent their onebedroom. If you have four graduate students in a four-bedroom unit, each of them signs their own individual lease and is responsible just for their bedrooms rent as opposed to having to worry about the liability of whether
their roommates who they may or may not know that well yet are actually going to be good for the rent and which is a little bit of a risk. So, it works out well from their experience. They've been using it for a while. Um, so they won't It works well whether for students or non- students.
>> Okay, I'll have more. That's what I'll wait for the public hearing. Thanks. >> Let's open for public hearing. Have a seat. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. We have two people signed up for public hearing. Nancy Carpenter. >> Hi, I'm Nancy Carpenter. Abomar County resident and I live in Eagles Landing,
one of the student oriented type uh developments. I guess one of the last ones built in this area. One thing I want to a few facts I want to say first, which came from the um housingverirginia.org website. Uh rents have increased 14 14% statewide over the
past three years. Over 1 million Virginia households are housing cost burdened as they pay more than 30% of their income above the national standard for housing. Uh the trends in Virginia housing demands will change from single attached housing to more smaller urban
style homes. Uh in 2011, 33% of all senior renters, which I'm one, paid more than 50% of their income for housing, make us making us severely rent burdened. Um I'm I'm part of a tsunami that's coming in housing. um the 40 to
65 plus age group is going to be one of the biggest groups coming up that cities and counties are going to have to deal with when it comes to housing. While I think that the plaza is a great idea for urban density and it's a great place to put that, I am concerned about the mix
of um housing. Uh right now I don't mind telling you, you know, I pay $400 a month in a four-bedroom unit, utilities included. um what they're proposing is almost twice that much. Uh and perhaps students can afford it. I don't know. Perhaps you know some of the
professionals that are being discussed can afford it. But it's also a great place for people who are transit challenged to be able to have access to their jobs or to get jobs to move out of
areas that this count this city has a public policy or or an initiative that they want to you know continue to move forward. I know it sometimes has to chug along but you know there is that opportunity here for that. The other thing that bothered me at the planning commission was the um conversation about
the accessibility by the public. You know, you know, I too walk from the medical center, you know, downtown quite a few times a month. And while and it would be nice to say, "Oh, if there's a nice little sandwich restaurant or something in this space to, you know, partake of that, but there was a
conversation about how we access that as the public, not being part of that exclusive um community that has access, you know, to the gym or to the um uh uh commercial space that they were talking about. So hopefully I think that idea has those ideas have been worked on and
it'll be more accessible to the public because what's the point of having mixed use if you know I can't use it. You know if you're supposed to have commercial development and I can't use it what's the point you know of having that. Um and the other point I wanted to made out is is is traffic. Um
there's no place for for people to go grocery shopping there. So they're going to have to rely on either their own cars increasing the traffic on West Main Street which is going to be really constricted at both ends because you'll have that hotel I guess at some point will will uh come to to fruition and
you'll have this at the other end. So you're going to have a very constricted West Main Street and um you know say that people will have to either try and use public transit to get out to Barracks Road or you know use their whole day to go grocery shopping on the transit until you know the study comes
back and we see what kind of changes that the city will be able to make. But so so what I'm saying is that I I like the idea of it. I'm concerned about um the p the public space how we'll be able to access that. um also concerned about the cost and the mix of people who will
be in there. >> Thank you, >> Durian. Members of city council, I'm Donna Deloreia with the law firm of Pain and Hodus at 414 East Jefferson Street in Charlottesville. I spoke at the joint public hearing on behalf of the Ivy Land
Trust and University Station LLC, the owners of 102 to 106 West Main Street and 118 11th Street Southwest, which are also located in the West Main Street South Corridor zoning district. My clients stand behind their earlier comments. This is the area of the city
best suited for development at the maximum height and density allowed by the zoning ordinance. The city must be open to this in order to spur successful mixed use in the blocks west of the train station. Buildings such as these will be in character with the district and will have benefits beyond West Main
Street. Your support of the plaza application for increased residential density and height will encourage the city's goals and be an important step towards realizing the potential for redevelopment of this area. Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak on this special
permit request? Good evening. Brandon Collins, 418 Fairway Avenue. I had to cover up my shirt because uh haven't discussed this with some of my colleagues yet, but um and I I wish we had been involved in some of the conversations about this. It's my understanding uh that folks in
the neighborhoods were really weren't consulted about this. Certainly nobody at West Haven was asked about uh how this is going to be set up. Uh nobody at FAR was consulted about this. And um I think there's a whole lot of questions and and one of those things is something that I've been talking about for a few
years now, which is uh the University of Virginia uh has plenty of room on grounds for student housing. And this seems to me uh while I know it's a commercial thing that maybe they should be looking at where to build on grounds, this is like one of the biggest
developments that Charlottesville's going to be putting up that includes housing for people in this city. And for a couple of years, everybody on this city council said, "Oh, yeah. We're we're we're into housing. We want to make more affordable housing. We're going to do stuff about housing." And it's not always about the money, so
we're not going to put a whole lot of money into it, and we're going to use leverage and stuff. And this is what we wind up with. This is the most significant building project that we've had in a while. And I and I don't see how this fits low-income people in our community. Um I my my feeling is that if
you're going to grant a special use permit, if you're going to uh make things more dense and um a lot of different kind of changes about how our city operates and how it looks, first you need to talk to the community around there and see how they feel about it, but also make it so it really is a mix
of of different types of people in that. And and you've said 15% affordable housing. Um I think if you're going to have that kind of density, you need to up that number to to much higher. I would say 50% would be great, but not sure we would get that. But $700 is
barely affordable. $1,200 is a huge difference. It's a big gap between $700 and $1,200. And and I don't know that too many people that that I'm concerned about that I know need housing. We're talking about homeless people for weeks over here. This this is not meeting that. And and I really would hope you
could squeeze some affordable housing component into this. >> Thank you. Anybody else would like to speak in a special privilege? >> Mayor Huja, city council members, I'm Iva Romanesco. I live at 117 Bowlingwood Road. I have no relationship with Amling
and I have never met the applicants before, but nevertheless, I support this project for three reasons. It is a new urbanism project. I've had the benefit of working with Kathy Galvin Mayor Hua before on the DISC committee and so we
know what urban uh renewal and urban development is about. It is also an economic development project and the city does need additional revenues. In addition, we do have a zoning and a comprehensive plan that has been discussed, argued and agreed upon. And I
think we should be able to trust in the plans that have been agreed upon. And I think the applicant has met the obligations set out by the plans. My view of why this is a good project is that first of all, it's on West Main Street. The center of West Maine,
roughly halfway between downtown and the university, is an area that has been lacking in development. There isn't much demand in that area right now. And yet, we want to have and we need living and working uh households in that area.
We have a train station that's almost adjacent to this property. We have bus service that's through this corridor. We have students, faculty, and other households that are already in this area. So, the issue of traffic, while yes,
it's always an issue, but yet this will serve the needs of people who are already working and commuting through this corridor. The tax base, we all understand the tax base. It needs to be approved. But there's more than just taxes here. We
have a pull of business and interest to an area that is developed with a new project. This is a project that will bring people into the neighborhood. Again, they already passed through this neighborhood. They already work in this area. And yet, this would be a a project
that would allow them to live here, have some services, some shopping, and also cause some reinvestment in this community. There was talk about the square footage of commercial area in this project. In some cases, looking to increase it from
15,000 square ft. I would say that 15,000 ft is actually a lot of space. This project is not large enough to sustain 15,000 square ft of retail or business or service space.
requiring space that is not leasable or occupied on a regular basis is not good planning. You need to set this up so that it is likely to work. And so all the project will bring to the area in terms of
households is a good thing. This is a seminal project to bring people there. But if you have all the square footage to serve this project on site, it doesn't help cross-pollinate other projects that are nearby.
By that I mean if you have two or three projects each having some level of services, people can get on the sidewalks, travel from one building to the next that gets them on the street, gets them on the sidewalks. That I think is one of the goals and that's something that has really
been discussed. I think frankly the density is an important element here. 240 units per acre is a pretty lofty goal. But if it can't be achieved here on West Maine, this is Main Street.
If it can't be achieved here, where can you get it? If it's on the roll, if it's in the the the plan, and it's part of a legally allowable use with an SUP, and the applicant has done all the things required,
has met with city council, I'm sorry, not the city council, but with the planning commission, the B, done things to meet the requirements. It seems to me that that that it ought to move forward. So, I think it's time to turn the page
on West Main Street away from used car dealerships, vacant parking lots, shops that are one story in height, and that sort of a low density type of style of of use. I think it is time to move
forward with this project at this time and in this place. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else would like to speak on this special permit? It was this way. Good evening, councilors and city council men and women. Uh my name is
George Johnson and I reside at 823D Hardy Drive. I just came in to support earlier um what Far wanted to put on the table, but something kept holding me in that seat
back there. And um now I kind of see what it is. I just want to know, can I get a copy of that because it's the first time I ever seen that design. And I think the fact that we have
neighborhoods connected to West Main Street, this is something we should have been um familiar with. This really really scares me. I understand the fact that
it's new and I understand I understand the fact that this is something that needs to change the way the um face of West Main Street um looks like, but
West Main Street has connecting neighborhoods to it. And so I'm just wondering um did you all talk to anybody beyond West Main Street? Did you meet with anyone else beyond
West Main Street to be to and how is this going to impact where we live? And are any of our folks who um live in our neighborhood who are um you know not
students, not faculty, not lawyers, not um um physician will be able to live in in these units. Um I don't know. I don't know that much about it and I'm just wondering how many people in our neighborhood in the Fifia neighborhood
or um you know in the Tenth and Page neighborhood um really know um um about this and how is it going to affect um um the neighborhood even I support um economic development and I support new
ideas but I don't know enough about this one um which kind of scares me and I don't know if it's the new gentrification that's getting ready to happen. Um, and I don't know. Um, um, every day, every day, every day, and I know your little things running, but
every day when I get up, I see new project. And maybe I'm just not paying attention. Um, and I should be because I'm on the the housing advisory committee, but um, we have to find a better way in how we, um, inform our
neighborhoods about projects such as this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak about this project? >> Um, I just I'm Luis Oola. Uh, I live on the 10th and Page neighborhood. Um, I
want to echo everything that Joy Johnson just said. um especially concerning uh West Haven residents um and how currently they are very hidden yet they will probably feel the impact um
the most about about this project and the way it will um gentrify the area surrounding it. That's all. >> Thank you. Anybody else would like to speak on this topic? If not, the public hearing is closed and three council members. Do you have any comments or
questions? >> I can start because I don't have a whole lot although I may come up with more after I hear what other folks want to say. Uh one actually that just kind of first of all responding to some of the public comments. There's a couple of
questions that I had is one that Miss Carpenter was talking about that people would need a grocery store um and would be driving in and out of the neighborhood because it's hard to carry groceries on a bus although a lot of people do that. Um and I'm one of the things that I'm wondering about is is
talking to our economic development folks that you know if this does go through and and the hotel goes through and we got you know some of this that becomes the standard for this corridor. You know, my mom used to live in Cleveland Park in in DC and there's a
giant and and contrary to its name, it's very small. It's a, you know, kind of a corner giant. Um, and it was always packed because the apartment building's near there. People could walk to the grocery store, bring their, you know, their little cart and the little two- wheeled cart. And it seems like that would be a really good use for this
neighborhood as we get, you know, this sort of de development since that is what our our comprehensive plan calls for. Um, and I I do hope that a small market would be part of this, but that's probably not going to serve people's grocery needs, more like their snack needs. Um, but the the other thing that
I I would really like to to push a little bit is the idea of affordable housing. I know that there's one idea that that you know under our current um ordinance that that you can offer to to pay money into the affordable housing fund and that's all well and good but I
think that what we heard about the the construction of this particular project and the density and the convenience and being on transit lines especially a free transit line with the trolley. It it seems to me like a perfect place to have some affordable housing. Um, and I would really like to explore possible ways
that we could have some of these units um, be set aside as affordable housing in C2, you know, not not separated out, not sent someplace else, but in this very desirable spot um because it's the very kind of, you know, small, dense urban on the transit line housing that
we need affordable housing in. >> Other comments? Um, you know, it's often said the only thing people hate more than suburban sprawl is urban density. Um, and the reality is is that we need um in order to uh stop suburban sprawl and roll, you
know, roll roll it back, we need to create uh places in the urban core for people to live and work and shop and play. And um uh and so we we have welcomed higher density in our urban core, but it has to be situated
correctly. We don't want to u we you would never put a a project like this in the middle of the Woolen Mills for instance or or some of the other neighborhoods. But as Mr. Ivanco said this is this is uh a part of the city that um Romanesco sorry
um this is a part of the city uh that's really designed to accommodate uh higher density and in fact um I would remind all of us that uh the city just undertook a process just about four years ago five years ago that looked at
um how dense we want these corridors to be and had a went through a very deliberative process uh to come up with the numbers that we were talking about earlier um where um we we want to channel that density. So from a density perspective I think this
is exactly what we were looking for. Um and and you know people can disagree about design and and some of the features in the commercial space. But I just I for me personally the density is not a negative. In fact it is a is a positive and um I think it will help
breathe life into this community. What's going to really impact um places like West Haven is what happens right across the street from this site. Uh the the same owner owns both parcels. And um I've had conversations with that owner. I know some other people in the room
have conversations with that owner about what happens to that site and how the development of that site can help tie West Haven into what's happening on West Main Street. So it's not nearly as isolated and segregated as it is now. West Haven was deliberately built to
hide poverty, to hide away poor people, to uh wall them off from the broader community. In some case, literally wall them off from the broader community. And what happens in this stretch is really going to help reintegrate West Haven or integrate West Haven to um to the West Main corridor. And um uh one thing I
will say about affordable housing um we're one of the very few cities in the Commonwealth may I don't know if there's any others that uh we actually went down to the general assembly um we're the only one. Okay, one of there's one other we actually went down I personally
others uh from the city went down to the general assembly about again about five years ago. um got a bill passed that allows us in instances like this um where we have uh projects that are um
that are relatively high density to require um under these conditions that we're talking about tonight require the developer um to either include units affordable units on site or contribute to affordable housing fund. That's typically not done in Virginia. the this
the general assembly doesn't give localities very many tools to um to uh incentivize and and or require affordable housing. We were we're one of two localities that have been given that tool. And in this case, this project um
uh could result, I believe, in the largest ever contribution to our city's affordable housing fund. Is that correct? About almost $500,000 to our city's affordable housing fund, unless they choose to build the units on site. And that money can in turn leverage millions of other dollars. And we've
seen this time and time again where an infusion of a few hundred,000 here or $500,000 there can be used to leverage millions of dollars in additional capital to create affordable housing for families and and and individuals in our community. So, um I did I I wanted to
make sure that that was sort of understood. Um u for all those reasons, I'm I'm uh prepared to to support this project. I do believe that um it is going to breathe life into a stretch of um the city that really needs it and um
and in the process will help generate some real capital to help us address some of our affordable housing challenges. >> I'd like to say something that um in terms of process um as Mr. Norris says I mean this this project has done
everything right. This site has done everything right. 2000 there was the Tory Gala study that generated a change and incorporation into the 2001 comprehensive plan that in turn generated changes to the zoning ordinance 2003 that then gives everyone
the predictability the awareness that they need of what is supposed to be going on there. It did everything right. It's a best practice. This wasn't doesn't happen everywhere in this city but in this particular case this this really has followed best
practice. Um I think uh it will fill in all the miss a major missing tooth. It'll begin to fill in all the missing teeth uh along the west main street which is again essential for activating that that street life that will make
make it possible to attract more rooftops in. And just like public transportation, which needs at least seven dwelling units per acre to sustain a an effective efficient bus service, you can't attract a grocery store
without at least 800,200 units within a 120 acre area. I mean, it's it's needs a lot of roof and and that clarify that that's only for a 3,000 foot grow corner store. So to get a real grocery store there, you need a lot of people. a lot
of people. This is the beginning step. Um it is going to increase the city's tax u base 12fold from what's existing there now. An empty parking lot at 23 $28,000 for the year is going to go up to be a half million dollars a year is
going to be contributing to the housing fund is which is again will leverage hundreds and hundreds of more different kinds of units in the community. Um the fact that the the owner of the property is also the owner of the property across the street does give rise to some
wonderful opportunities for the for the West Haven community. Um and there will be engagement but there again there was a lot of public engagement throughout the last decade about what this zoning and what this vision was all about for
this site. Um so I I feel very strongly that um this will promote the multimodal corridor. It's going to be promoting pedestrian activity, bike activity. Um it is in
keeping with so many other aspects of our comp plan. Um we've I've already mentioned the idea of the of the plaza, but the applicants already moving in that direction. Um, I would just like to emphasize the importance of looking at
um the um architectural control district guidelines with regards to the the kind of the scale and detailing of your storefronts. I know that's another level of detail that is also going to be making or breaking the experience. However, if it's and and those
guidelines have some some good good comments to follow and I understand that there's going to be the opportunity to meet with staff as the process unfolds. Um I would like to encourage staff to work with the place design task force as
as they need to to get some insights as to what that would be expeditiously, not to slow anything down, but just as a resource. Um, and I just like to end that I mean, as far as I know, there's probably three different documents you had to be working with, right? There was the architectural control district,
there was the ent entrance corridor, there was the the zoning itself, there was the comprehensive plan, there's four documents. Um, you also had a seven member planning commission, you had a nine member board of architectural review. I must say I'm just pretty amazed that you came up with a building
that has as much kind of design integrity as it does because it could have easily been the horse designed by committee. Um, and so you've got way, you know, more details to go and do, but, um, every step of the way, and I've I've watched the planning commission,
I've watched what's going on the B, you've been incorporating all the comments. Um, I have I have a lot of faith in the in the applicant to do the right kind of a design and the and the final analysis. So, I I support the project.
>> Uh, yeah. And don't worry because I'm going to be in the minority. But I hate to disagree with with uh my fellow counselors, but I find it hard to believe that the planning that was done four and five years ago, which I absolutely trust, was very thoughtful
and and cognizant of our history and our um their our future dreams for Charlottesville, envision student housing on Main Street. I mean, this is student housing. This isn't residences. This isn't households. It's student
housing. It's basically a I hate to say it, but it's a glorified dormatory and it's designed and that's what you do. And that's fine. I It's just on our main street in a zoning that it's a university
zoning in a different, you know, zoning area. Basically, um all of the things we heard, uh is the is student housing new urbanism? Maybe it is. And you know, So be it. But um there are living and
working households in this area. And that's one of the concerns is that this does back up to a very, you know, one of our vibrant neighborhoods. One of our our neighborhoods that's that's really uh coming alive Fville, not to mention
Weston Pa uh Page 10th and Paige, sorry, and West Haven. Um but just immediately behind it is Fville. And one of my concerns both at the planning commission and in here and in listening tonight is there's been a lot of attention to the
design in the front of the building that which faces West Main Street and very little about what faces Fville and in fact that's where this eighttory tower is the only way I know how to say
it. It seemed to be this cement thing that that went up and and I hope it's got more design than that. But eight stories is a lot. That's the Louiswis and Clark building and it's on a we're told on a very high point which means it's going to loom over Fville. Um so
you know as I say I just can't imagine that that this kind of density I wish it was more households. I wish it was more more mixed use. I I have another hard time believing that this is actually what
mixed use means that there's just open space on the ground floor and a whole bunch of that's going to be parking. Um it's, you know, I I don't believe it's mixed use. I don't believe it's new urbanism. I I I'm sorry, but I, you
know, most everybody else agrees. >> Just want to put that one out. >> A few comments. I think this is the right project in the right location. It will provide the density we need in West Main Street corridor. It will be transit oriented.
It will be mixed use and it will also provide as Mr. Norris said money for affordable housing. We it will help in many ways people who need help. It will it will help our tax
base and it will be also provide some public spaces and public plaza. I'm uh I think the design is getting in the direction of where it is not only one-sided design but all foursided has has been designed including the back uh
with landscaping with the design of the building itself. I think it would be a great asset to this community and I've tried to support it. We we've already got three votes and I'm I'm actually the fourth, but I just wanted to to kind of respond a little bit to the idea of students in that neighborhood. And I
think that what we've seen over the last several years is that we already have students in that neighborhood, especially graduate students. Um, and I think that one of the concerns that I've really had is looking at neighborhoods like Tenth and Paige and and Fville. The the fact that
a lot of those students are moving into houses that had previously been affordable houses for families and because they could pay more, the prices, the rent prices for those houses have gone up. Um, houses that are broken up into apartments. They've brought noise into the neighborhoods. you know, it's
it's a whole different kind of feel when when students are living there. And I think that something like this, which is, you know, obviously students want to live in this area. They're they're moving into neighborhoods. And to have a a huge influx of of apartments available to that population, both, you know, both
students and non- students, I think really will help to relieve some of that pressure on the neighborhoods that's driving rents up. So, that's I'm hopeful and that's one of the main reasons that I support this project. >> Is there a motion? That's >> I had one Oh, >> go ahead. >> One other comment which was I was troubled to hear from Miss Johnson that
I I know well I know that the uh applicant um even though applicant wasn't legally required to reach out to the 10th page community. I know they they did, but my I'm concerned to hear that there was a breakdown and that word did not get to and I'm not putting this
on your shoulder, but somewhere along the way that communication did not extend from the 10th page neighborhood association to the residents of West Haven, it sounds like. And so I I hope in the future that whether it's staff or and we figure out a way to make sure
that uh West Haven residents, West Haven tenant association is included um in those communications >> and these pictures are in our agenda online. So they're in the backup background material. >> Is there a motion on the floor? >> Yes, I made it.
>> Was the was the condition as planning commission? >> Oh yes. Do I need to read the whole thing or shall I just say it with the positions added by the planning commission? >> There is a resolution in your package. >> So, it'll take me a minute to >> finger my way back to it. >> Um, can I ask another question just to
reassure me that you say it's going to be targeted uh the target populations are students. when non- studentents uh apply um for a bedroom um I assume
there's no rejection of people >> as conventional anybody can rent >> do you pair people up >> it's a fair housing >> yeah I would think >> just for the record in case that comment couldn't be heard on the microphone
absolutely they welcome all prospective residents to the community. Um they want everyone to be welcome there that wants to live there. And as Mr. Tolbert reminds me, the certainly um fair housing laws and other anti-discrimination regulations and laws will apply.
>> So children could live there, too. >> Absolutely. So, >> um, can I just point out that, um, on page eight of the staff memo, it does, um, provide an alternative suggested motion that says to pay attention to the
West Main illustrative plan and have staff approval of the preliminary site plan. So, there's a modified version and and the way these suggested motions were written, it says the special use permit application. And I wonder if it should have been written resolution
Does that match? >> There is a resolution resolution. >> As long as we get the res. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. >> That was page eight. But Mr. Brown is just >> what of the whole thing? >> Thank you. >> Oh, it was 120. It was 123 of the whole
thing. >> Okay. >> But Mr. Brown has just pointed out to me that the resolution itself includes the West Main illustration, >> but here are the suggested motions which are on page 123. So, Right. You're you're approving the resolution. The suggestion motions were
for the planning commission. >> Oh, good. That's okay. Thank you. Yes. I would like to to move that we accept the resolution in our agenda. >> There's a second >> with the and it included those all of those conditions in it. >> I can't find it again, but motion.
>> I'll second it. >> Discussion. >> There it is. >> Thank you. Fourth item on agenda is a public hearing concerning abandoned gas easement on Whitewood Road. Lauren
Hillbrand. >> I'm I'm going to present that. Mr. Hooser. Mr. Mr. Mayor, members of council, next item on your agenda is a proposed ordinance offered on first reading in a public hearing governing the abandonment of a gas line easement
on Whitewood Road in Albamar County. This is an easement that was given to the city in 2007. It has never been used. The developer is now proposing to grant the city a new easement which will take this one take the place of the one that's the subject
of this ordinance. Um, so we simply don't need the easement anymore and uh, staff's requesting that you hold the public hearing and approve on first reading the ordinance so that it carries over to the next reading. >> Is there any questions before I open the public hearing?
Open the public hearing. Is there anybody here who would like to speak on this topic? If not, public hearing is closed. Is there a discussion or a motion? >> Mr. Mayor, I move the ordinance. >> Second. >> Second. Any discussion on the motion? It's first reading.
>> It's first reading. >> Okay. >> Item number five is a report on fiscal year 2014 budget guidelines and long-term forecast. Uh Leslie Burgerard >> and we do have a PowerPoint.
>> PowerPoint. Okay. >> Is it on? >> Is it on? >> Yeah. Can try. Oh, there we go. Thanks. Sure. Okay. All right. Can everybody hear me? Okay. Hi. Good evening. I'm Leslie Ballard.
I'm the city's director of budget and performance management for those who don't know me. And I guess this is kind of the official unofficial I feel like we've been talking about this budget for months now. Um but we're really starting to get into the meat of the budget now.
Um we've got just about three more months left until we have to present something formally to city council in March. Um so tonight we're going to take the opportunity to talk about uh the long-term forecasts and then get some feedback from council on some budget
guidelines um going into next year. So basically that's what I just said. um looking at some discussion and feedback to approve the budget guidelines and then at the end I also have some dates and I can have the clerk work with council to finalize the work sessions
and the community budget forum dates and I apologize that's offc center but okay they're adjusting it okay there we go hey and the magic occurs okay cool all right
great thanks Paige Great. Okay. So, we've got um and none of this should be any surprise to counselors. We've had work sessions about these. Your retreat focused on a lot of these issues. Um there's a lot of big budget drivers going into next year.
Among those, the city schools. We've talked about them quite a bit. Um the city has healthcare and retirement costs that we have to t um pay for. Of course, council has your own priorities and initiatives that you want to see funded. Um, we've got nonprofit and outside
agency requests. We have um hundreds thousands of dollars in new requests next year alone that we're going to have to um to uh deliberate over um and come to some recommendation. Um we use some one-time revenue in fiscal year 13 and most of that was to help fund the city
schools. And then um you know we haven't really been giving raises market rates like we should in several you know over the years as we'd like to. So we're really losing our competitive edge and that's beginning to wne a little bit on on kind of where we fit in with the overall market. Um and and after it's
okay to do that once in a while, but after a while you start to get too far behind and then you really have to make up for lost time. So all these are major issues going into next year. Um and again none of this should be a surprise to council. So, we do a long-term forecast.
Um, and a lot of that really beyond 14 at least, we have a pretty good foothold on where we think we're going to be going into fiscal year 14. Beyond that though, we have to do a lot of estimations and trending. We do have monthly revenue team meetings that includes budget office staff, finance,
commissioner, revenue, treasurer, economic development. Um, I might be forgetting somebody, but we meet uh monthly and usually quarterly when we get off the budget season to talk about revenues, what's what what are the trends showing? And so we we have
constant conversations about revenues. On the expenditure side, we look at those at least quarterly to see if there's anything outstanding that we need to look at. Um, so we're keeping an eye on those as well. Um, we also keep an eye on issues we know are coming up that need to be addressed. um anything
that needs to be that we know is coming online um that we're going to have to pay for. And then we're always very conservative and cautious about the economy. Um and I think that that's pretty loud and clear um in terms of how we budget. And that conversation's coming up quite a bit I think as part of
the year in discussions. And then we want to take a strategic review of services and programs. I mean that's also part of what we do each budget season is really look hard and we're even taking a harder look this year. I think we've kind of become more sophisticated at this um over the years at really looking strategically at what
we do, how we do it, um you know, does it make sense? Are we, you know, is the program really doing what it's supposed to be doing? And are we using the dollars as wisely as we can be? So, all these strategies go into building a budget and building the long-term forecast.
So, I'm just going to go over quickly some of the major revenue sources. The largest one, of course, is real estate. this. Um, again, we bring in approximately $50 million a year just in real estate tax revenue alone, and that's an $146 million budget.
Um, and again, we're not seeing much movement in real estate tax revenue. We were expecting in uh 2012 assessments to increase by about 2%, but it looks like now they're going to be flat. Um, so we're going to have to bring those estimates down a little bit. So, we're
not seeing much movement on real estate tax. Again, this is our major source of revenue coming into the city. Um, so at least it's not going down very much. It's still staying relatively level. Sales tax revenue on the other hand,
slightly different story. Um, that's actually trending upwards nicely. And you can see that based on our revised 2013 number, we're back pretty much at pre-recession levels back in 2008. So that's good. That maybe gives us a little little more confidence in the
economy. People are going out. They're buying things. Um so we see that that is trending upwards fairly nicely. Um so that that looks pretty strong. Bole in a similar fashion. Um
sure business professional occupational licenses and it's based on what a business um brings in in gross receipts. And so the commissioner receives a monthly report on those receipts. Um based on what he has seen, um it looks like that's doing quite well also and
trending upwards. Um we have to watch carefully though. Um well sales tax, any of these taxes, we have to watch carefully. Uh things that are occurring in the county such as Stonefield, such as the um development down um on the south end of town. So we just have to keep an eye on those. And part of that
is trying to figure out where in the revenues some of those items might fall that we might have to bring back a little bit. Um so that's uh but as of now this this looks very healthy meals and lodging similar story here. Um
again these have been very healthy. You see a little bit of a dip in 14. Remember when you when council passed the 13 budget we had a onetime windfall of revenue um changing the way we acrewed the revenue. We gained a month but that was a windfall. So we're going to have to bring that back a little bit but still that revenue these both of
these are growing. Um so we don't see any changes there. Um the changes look positive. So in terms of the major sources of revenue which include real estate, personal property, sales, bull, meals, lodging, utilities and county revenue sharing. These are the
percentage changes each fiscal year act the actuals up to 12 and then projected. And you'll see we're not even close to the 8% we saw pre-recession levels. 2% is more looking like the trend of growth in those major revenue sources going forward. So as we build budgets in the
future, we have to really keep that in mind that really we can't grow more than our revenues are growing. So um we've said this a couple years now that 2% 1 to 2% seems to be the magic number right now and and that really hasn't changed from last year.
So this is the chart everybody hates. Um and I always have to explain it every year. Um, so I'm not looking at you at all, but let me explain what this chart is. This this this basically turns out our long-term forecast from fiscal year
13, which is where we are currently, which we don't see. Uh, right now, we're actually right on for 13. Uh, revenues are up a little bit, expenditures, it's hard to tell right now. But 14, you can see that we do have a gap that starts to grow. And then as you go out farther, that gap grows larger. But if you look
at 15 through 18, it's really impossible to tell you where that gap why, you know, what's going on necessarily with that gap in um between revenues, expenditures, and the top line, the red line is expenditures and the bottom is revenue. Um but what it does, the point
I want to make here is that every year we have a job to do in the city, which is present a balanced budget to council. So our job by next March is to make sure that gap in 14 is zero. that we have a a
balanced budget that make sense that um is a good long-term um process for the city. Um and some of the things contributing to the two that looks like about a 2.42 and a.5 million gap in 14.
One is that we've got in there $1.8 million going to the schools and new money. We've got requirements to fund healthcare and retirement which is about 1 million in new money. And this is offset by other things that are making that gap be smaller. So all
these combined as a net are creating that gap. Um I've got a salary adjustment in there which again I spoke to that earlier. Um on the revenue side we used a lot of onetime revenue about 1.2 million and 13 to help balance the budget and we're also seeing a decrease in city county
revenue sharing by about $600,000 and other local revenues are growing modestly. Um, so right now as it looks right now, that blue line right there, the fiscal year 14 budget is actually going to be less than the budget we're in right by right now by about $600,000.
The red line, the expenditures line obviously is greater than that. So we h that's what we have to do. We have to shrink those two lines together and make the red line and the blue line come together and get a balanced budget. But ultimately, we have to make sure we're matching our expenditures with where we
believe revenues are going to fall. And that's partly where the budget guidelines come in that we ask council to look at each year. And I've not put up 50 slides of all the guidelines. I just put up the two that we changed. The other ones are not we're not proposing
to change at all. There's one guideline that has um that changed a little bit. that first one. We've always had building a reserve for council priority initiatives, but we also added um some language about a council discretionary fund. Um at the work session we had, I
think it was over the summer, uh we talked about having two pots of money, one for your larger initiative priorities and then another one for kind of the smaller requests that you get during the year. Um which is the reason we passed that policy which has a two-tiered approach for that. So we
added a guideline for that. And then we also added another guideline regarding the meals tax or another revenue source. Um I don't think we've heard any interest at all from council about increasing the real estate tax, which remember is the first guideline that
that will not be increased. So that one would immediately be off the plate unless we heard otherwise. Um really what number two up there is asking council to give us is just flexibility to look at revenue sources to explore what that would be. We're not saying I'm
not saying right now or I don't think anybody said that we couldn't balance the budget without that. It would be difficult though. Um we're going to do our best though. Um I mean if we come to a collection of decisions and we don't have to use a revenue great but we want
to have the flexibility to be able to explore that and have all the options on the table. And so that was the reason for that other change that additional guideline. I know there's been a lot of discussion about this in the most in recent days and recent weeks. Um so I know you all might want to talk about
this one tonight. So, in terms of the budget process, um we've got a lot going on right now. We actually haven't started meeting with departments yet. Those meetings will start this week and they'll go for the two weeks before the holiday um the end of the year. We've got the National
Citizen Survey that they're wrapping up right now. Those results will be available pretty soon. That might give some good information to help feed the budget process. We've also got the citizen budget survey which will be ready. Uh the results are due mid January. So probably early February
those results will be ready. We are reviewing department requests and we're doing this a little bit differently this year. And this some of this was based on some of the feedback we got from council and thinking about how the agency budget review team works was we're using a peer
review group. And what we did was we picked some lead team members to actually review budgets of their peers. And so they would review a budget of a department that they know nothing about. So they would be so it' be a totally fresh look of of eyes on a brand new
budget. Um they would meet with each other. Um they would ask questions, they would consult, they would talk about collaboration. So, it's a way not only to get a fresh pair of eyes on a budget that's never seen it before, but it's a chance for lead team members and department heads to really say, "Okay, I
didn't know you did this. I do this, too. Let's collaborate." I mean, there's opportunities there that maybe we can find efficiencies. So, I think it'll be exciting process. Um, it wasn't hard to sell to people. I think people really wanted to do this. And so, we start um
again, that's how we're going to be reviewing department budgets this year. So, hopefully that'll go well. We're calling it a pilot. Um, but I'm sure it'll get tweaked um as we go along. But I'm excited about it. I think it'll be a good process. We're also reviewing the nonprofit agencies currently. And then
the capital improvement program goes before the planning commission public hearing actually next Tuesday. Um, they looked at it at their work session um a week or so ago. Um, didn't really have too many questions, I don't think. And so we'll see how the public hearing goes
next week. So, in terms of the timeline, sometime in late February, council will actually receive the budget. March 4th, it'll be formally presented along with the school's budget. And then the proposed dates, and I added a work session, um,
also based on some feedback I received from council last year on kind of the setup of the work sessions are the 7th, 14th, 21st, and 20th. And those are all Thursday nights. The 18th is the first public hearing and the 20th is what we're proposing as the
community budget forum. And as we we'll confirm all these dates obviously and um see how they work with calendars. In April, we have the second public hearing on the 1st and then another budget work session on the 4th and then the budgets approved on the 9th which is a Tuesday
before the planning commission meeting. So a little bit early this year but that's not a bad thing. And that concludes my presentation. And um anybody citizens whoever whoever is interested in the budget, we have all this information up on our website. And
as we update it, we'll give information to council. We'll continually update the website as well. So thank you. I have a question before we get started too for do you say that uh you have already
decided to include 1.8 8 million additional money for school. >> Um I was told that well do you want to speak to that? >> Sure. That was >> I wasn't in the work session. I think you all discussed that. >> We included that after discussions at the work session. There seemed to be
support consensus from council to support $1.8 million in new money for the schools to help them with their deficit. >> And that was a compromised position. >> It was indeed >> asking them to make a cut of a similar amount. >> That's correct. May I ask, but is the current school budget deficit
>> based on our last conversation with them? Um, it was anywhere between three and $4 million, but I think that included a pay raise that I'm not sure if they're going to propose if they have to put cuts on the table. So, um, so I'm not 100% sure. I don't have an exact number, but we believe it's somewhere
between three and four million. >> My recollection of the discussion of the schools was that um, I think Mr. Norris and Sis and Miss Gman
thought that they you could find that kind of money and suggestion was me tax editions and um I don't know if that is still the case. >> Well, >> I'm not sure I would argue that we could find it. I think I argued that we had to
to to find it because >> you know schools are important in our community. their budgets have been cut by a third from the state. Um, and I think that, you know, if we value education, we need to put our money where our mouth is. >> And just to to correct the record, the
proposal was to for the city to come through with $1.8 million either from additional revenue or from some other source. For instance, we have an economic development downturn reserve which we've been accumulating over the
last several years which now has about $8 million in it roughly. So there are pots of money. >> So I just want to make sure. >> Yeah, they weren't they weren't linked to specific. >> So we we didn't agree to continue the 1.8 8 million to in other
words it's onetime money again or really >> the way that the way that I looked at it because I I was the one who prop make the proposal was that you know last year we put in about $3 million of >> $3 million >> of onetime money if we do 1.8 8 million this year. You know, I I want to see us gradually sort of wean them off of the
onetime money because it's eventually it doesn't become onetime money. Um u but I see us moving in the direction of working with them with within you know their budget constraints and our budget constraints to um to make them whole.
And I would yeah I looking at these projections it was a little disheartening to see the the revenue projections so you know with the the growth rate so expected to be low. Um I think that as we've done these one-time
infusions we know that the state cuts are permanent. >> Yes. >> And so it's not like the need is going to go away. It's not like students are going to stop needing an education. And I think we kept hoping that the economy would turn around so that general revenues would produce enough to make up the difference and it's now looking like
that may not be the tr the case. But >> I think if if you remember correctly when we went through the budgeting process last year, we one of the things that we talked about was this one-time money. Um and I think that at the time there was kind of a commitment to not continue to fund with one-time money. Um and there was a concern about doing
that. It's not it's not the best way to to budget long term. It's not a one time need >> and it and it's not a onetime one time issue. >> May I uh put something out there as well? Um I'm reflecting on the utility tax and how um the water resources protection
program and the advisory committee then I guess they had AMEC was the consultant. I thought that process was very good in terms of identifying a serious problem with infrastructure. um having a a group of very experienced
people in the area of uh water management, storm water management, and I'm wondering if that can provide us with a model of how to deal with and come up with a permanent solution to the
fiscal situation for the city schools, both in terms of their operating budget as well as as their capital improvement program. And I'm thinking specifically of the reconfiguration of the schools. And so as Miss Zos was talking, they the changes that have happened to the city
schools are structural. Um the census changes that occurred in 2011 or the college students from other localities could no longer be counted as children under 18 and the Charlottesville sent census that had a significant impact on our revenue from
the state. uh Richmond's cuts in VRS. Um so I know we have trend information about that that it's been increasingly a situation where state revenues are going down. We have to go up. Um we need to
find a permanent solution and I think it needs to be looked at um very comprehensively looking at all kinds of revenue meals tax profer looking at our profer agreements um what are the kind of permits and fees um
using economic growth yes for property tax revenue but also looking at whether we can increase tap fees um and and then again bringing up the whole idea of consolidation of departments as well as the any kind of extra cuts that we could
find in our own system as we're asking the city schools to do. So what I'm proposing is that we we can't solve this per this permanent problem immediately. We've got to come up with another
short-term solution. That's what I'm feeling. But we do need to get on a track where there is a very very prudent investigation and then a solid solution to come up with a a longterm um strategy for dealing with the city
schools. And you know, I'm trying to think when we came up with the 40% rule, 40% of new revenue, how was that determined? Was there was there some sort of a task force that that looked at that? >> I do not know. Well, we could try to find out >> because I don't think they pulled it out of thin air.
>> No, but that was when they were growing. So now we don't. >> Well, but so but we we're going to start seeing some growth. But I think you're very right. 2%'s a good prudent number to look at it if but we have to look at the new realities and how do we how do
we solve this problem? Um and I and we've got to we've got to do it once and do it once. Right. One thing this I don't know that it would well I know that it wouldn't solve all of this but I was just at the National League of Cities meeting. A
couple of us went this year. Um and this is of course something that a lot of cities are facing these sort of budgetary crunches especially around schools and and social services as we get cuts from the the nation and the state. And one of the the models that they talked about that I'm hoping we can
sort of look at it's it's very new and and you know not exactly untested but not tested here is the they're called social impact bonds and they're not really bonds but um getting investment from either an a a foundation or from an
an actual investing investment company and Goldman Sachs is doing some of these where they would invest in say making a a loan payment for five years of a preschool program, like a three-year-old program that the schools are trying to do because they know that after five
years of investment, that's going to be saving the school district money in special ed and and media work. And so, you know, kind of building that savings in and but taking the risk at the front end with a with a a payment, you know, some of those more creative ways I'd like to see us looking at as well as,
you know, other things because when we start talking about long-term revenue sources, we have to also look at long-term structural things that may reduce costs without cutting services. >> Exactly. >> But I I would propose that we leave everything on the table for now, not
committing to support or or denial of it. sort of the way I did with the marijuana legislation or the ordinance. Um because it's, you know, to give you all as many tools as you can to urge you to try to, you know, to figure this out without adding uh >> Right.
>> Well, and that's why we've done the different we've done the you know the different approach with the peer review. I mean that's you know we knew we needed a different approach to look at the budgets and that you know having a few people look at it was not going to solve the problem but having you know really the lead team start to have more of an
interest in this and you know frankly you know help us do this >> and so they're they're the experts and so and they'll be able to talk to each other about it. >> Um so I think it that approach will help with that a lot. So I think we are definitely looking for a balanced approach that will help us you know
create a good proposal. So >> I think it'll be clear to say the meal st I personally don't see desiraability of increasing me taxes
as a way to solve our revenue problems at least in my mind. I I tend to agree or I do agree and I I really hope as part of this this conversation about um you know the best path forward is we you know funding for
public education is the most important thing that we do in the city. It's by far the biggest single line item in our budget. Um there's so much to be gained from having you know wellunded adequately funded schools and we all benefit from that. Um the reality is
that our per pupil spending is about I believe about 60% higher than the statewide average. Um and there's only two cities in the entire Commonwealth of Virginia that come anywhere near close to what we spend on a per pupil basis in our schools. And so I I think um that
has to be part of the conversation is on the spending side. Um are we getting the best bang for our buck? are we making uh are we running the system as efficiently as possible? Um these are not easy conversations to have. Uh but I'd much
rather focus on using the kind of approach that I mentioned earlier about, you know, asking for some modest reductions from the schools, us stepping in, you know, in a gradual basis, you know, with short-term support. Um
um but getting them to the point where um they're not dependent on the city for additional support. It may not happen overnight, but I think we can get there. >> I would, you know, we should remember that the the city income level is 30%
lower than the state average. And I think most other cities are are larger and have more of a balance. I think ours you might find that we are also one of the lowest income um cities at least as far as our our public school population. We have what 53% of our 54% of our kids
are on free and reduced price lunches. >> So our schools have a lot of challenges um that other schools systems don't have. I I hate to see that number thrown around that, you know, we spend so much per pupil because I think if we look at at the way that we're spending money,
we're spending money. We have the one of the highest rates of students getting AP credits. We have a program that that is going to give kids a two-year chance for a two-year associate degree when they graduate so that we they can enter the workforce ready to to to work. We have,
you know, we're looking at the schools are trying to find a way to institute three-year-old programs in the schools because we know that children who come into kindergarten not ready for kindergarten work are, you know, that's how they how they gauge how many prison
beds to put in for, you know, 30 year or 20 years from now. So, I I think that, you know, we have over the past several years had, you know, kind of fluctuating attendance rates in our schools or enrollment rates. I think if our enrollment rates go down, it may be because the schools, you know, people
have a negative idea of the schools and what we need to do is make sure our schools are the best schools they can be and to starve them slowly. Um, I think will just exacerbate that problem. I think we talk about, you know, people, you know, I I get all these look at these websites of people who are making
inquiries about, you know, I'm moving to the area and I have kids, where should I live? And you hear people responding, "Oh, move to the county." But, you know, they're they're more affluent schools. I would say they're not better schools, but if we don't continue to to fund our schools adequately, they won't be better schools, and we'll have a hard time
attracting families to our community. And I think that that's just some place that I don't I don't want to be on council when that happens. So, I think that we should be looking at every every revenue possibility at this point when we're still four months out, five months out. Um, I would hate to choke
off what might turn out to be a really good way of raising revenue for our schools. I'm not saying that we should absolutely do the meals tax, but in the experience that I've seen in other communities, especially in in Rowanoke, where their only regret was they put a sunset clause on having it just a
two-year program of raising the the meals tax by two cents. They found that that restaurants in the community actually gained business and were more profitable because part of that two cent tax went for a marketing campaign to push for people to eat in local
restaurants. They did better in their restaurants than the surrounding county did. So, you know, I think it it's something that although restaurants are are very rightfully cautious and worried about it and we need to bring them into the conversation and it may be that it isn't the right answer to cut it off
before we've even had that conversation I think would be a real mistake. I think we have a good school system. I'm not saying that we should not spend money, but I think I am I agree with Mr. Norris. We have to look at getting the
best mileage for what we are spending right now and is there are ways to better use that and I understand there'll be some additional money need anyway. >> Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive the the what you two >> said I mean they're
>> right and I think the the number We have both a blessing and a curse with the number of schools that we have particularly at the elementary level. Um when you hear parents talk about what they like about the schools, it's they
their kids can in many cases can walk to school. They like it being that convenient. They love the fact that our schools don't ex that are they're on average around 300 students at the elementary level. But when you look at um surrounding counties that have a a
much lower per student cost, they also have fewer schools that are larger with lots of busing. So again, it's part of the blessing and the curse. It's what's going to attract people is is as our walkable city. And you can't get your cake and eat it too. Um as we're growing
our young adult population, they will be settling down having children. A city without children is a dying city. We have got to keep promoting. This is a place to raise. >> You should have come with me Saturday morning to downtown. You're seeing quite a few children. >> Right. So I all I would like to say is
that um and again as Miss Ao is saying is keep you keep you as flexible as possible. But I would probably modify the print the guideline to say meals tax and instead of ore and other revenue within the broader context of taxes and
fees, economic growth, departmental cuts and consolidations of both the city schools and the city departments. And you know I think what you just said Kathy is actually illustrates um exactly what's you know has being said by all
parties here which is that we do have attractive schools that you can walk to but not everybody can walk to their school. So if if we if the schools by becoming more efficient actually can make all of those things that that make the schools attractive to families even
better. uh by just it this you know three to4 million dollar deficit can be a real opportunity to just reook at how we do things and that we're stuck. We're kind of stuck 40 years ago in a model
that that may have been logical then but is no longer logical. this is an opportunity and we can make our schools even better for all children and and that's that you know that but every but you know everybody's saying that everybody's saying you know the same
sentiment is just how you get there is um and there's lots of options one of my concerns is that we're not hearing a lot from the schools about their deficit I mean we've had a number of meetings with them about other things but I haven't
heard much of you Mr. actually have I mean a lot of the discussion that we've had with our work sessions have been surrounded around been centered on the budget >> well ours but with the school in the joint the joint meetings that we had with the schools a lot of the focus has been on their their deficit and well not
just their deficit but also the um middle school reconfiguration project that's been part of that discussion as well so um I mean they are concerned that they I mean they will definitely have to have cuts I mean even if we stayed at the $1.8 $8 million. They're going to have to make some sort of cut
um to their uh to their budget. >> Well, that's what I'm talking about. Details about really how they're going to meet their end of the bar. >> They have not presented that just yet, >> right? That's that that was my concern that we're not here. >> They're working on it. >> Just to change the topic slightly,
there's also a deficit of 2 to3 million on our own side, the city budget itself. I think we need to look at that also as to see how we where we going to cut cut and where are you going to save to be able to manage that kind of magnitude of
>> when we when we met I think last time and talked a little bit about this um the number our our deficit numbers that we had were a little bit larger than they are today fortunately we've gotten some some good information recently you know as I have mentioned every time we've met you know a lot of this information is fluid because we're so
early in the process that we started this discussion. Um, so so some of that information has has actually improved for us. Um, but we're still talking about if you take the $1.8 million that council said that they wanted to provide to the schools for operating. Plus what we're looking at, you know, it could be
anywhere between $750,000 to $1.5 million or $2 million with our deficit depending on, you know, how things play out with our with our operating budgets. you're still talking about um you know anywhere between three to four million dollars overall deficit that we would be
facing for next year >> and that on the city side doesn't include anything new >> that's nothing >> that's just status quo you know >> it includes a million new health and retirement >> that but I'm talking about programs >> program change your mechanical system
>> we have to do that but I'm talking about if if if council says they want to have some new programs you know that's going to that's a whole other conversation And so as we kind of move forward and I mean as like Mr. Jones said we're still e this is kind of the early part of the process you know I'll know a lot more by
the end of this month um but the numbers do move a lot and so um that's just the nature of the game right now >> just to make life a little more interesting >> what I'm going to say is it may bother some people but for example we
get profit of about half a million dollars from the project we just approved. Mhm. >> And we can still use that money in housing, affordable housing instead of the our own money in that and still have enough money in affordable housing net dollar-wise.
>> Are you saying to not put new money into affordable housing because we have the proper >> if he has the proper money supposed to be an addition that that fund is supposed to grow by that amount? No. >> Oops. >> I agree. I mean, I think that that would undermine the whole >> point. But it does bring up the point I
was trying to make that we we need to look at our proper agreements and start building in contributions to schools. We don't do that right now. The Virginia code doesn't it's not to be in lie of but it's something that we we should revisit as part of this investigation on
how do we expand our revenue sources. >> You can't do that for schools like you can do for affordable housing. As Dave said, you get a special permission from the state for affordable housing. you have a Virginia code is allows proper
agreements to um include schools. It's in the Virginia code. We shouldn't have to go back to the state >> any I'm not sure >> the the agreement or the your action tonight was a special use permit. It was not a profit agreement. Profiters are
only applicable in resonings. But the the type of um type of fund that would be benefited by the special use permit tonight can also be benefited by reasonzonings. Profers, however, cannot apply to special use permit.
>> Right. I should have qualified that, but thank you. Well, and I want to go back to my earlier point, which is um you know, we deliberately set aside millions and millions of dollars over the last three three or four budget
cycles to deal with issues having to do with economic downturn. We didn't we only used a very small amount of that. We have $8 million sitting in that fund right now. How is it how can we justify going out to the community for more revenue when we're not even using the revenue we have now?
>> Is that part of the reserve that we have to keep? >> No, it's a separate reserve. I I think you know getting back to the the use of this of that money for one-time expenditures or for ongoing operating. If we if we gave the the schools another
$1.8 million this year and said it one time, they're going to have the same issue again. >> Well, that's why I saying gradually fit. Last year we did 3 million, do 1.8, you know, gradually phase it out and and accompanied by modest cuts on their end and hopefully as the economy continues to improve, revenues will increase.
>> And I really do think this needs to be studied carefully and and again that water resources management plan process was a very good one just to think about how we could do this so that we're not guessing. >> So what about adding to the language of
of was it guideline two? Well, it's yeah, it's the second one >> and downturn fund as one of the other >> things to consider >> and use of downturn fund >> and just reserves. Just reserves looking at it just a Yeah,
>> but I wouldn't say regular reserves because we do have to keep a balance of reserves to debt to operating and I wouldn't want to >> do too much of that. But I would be comfortable at least looking at that to see if you know I I I agree. I think that that's something that
we need to keep on the table. I'm I'm wondering if we also need to look at different kinds of community engagement um processes and that uh at the VML conference this past fall, I did hear about Hampton City's I value story which
they they used specifically during times of having to deal with serious budget constraints. They had an $18 million deficit and they went through this process of engaging with the community to get the community to let them know
what what they were willing to give up. Um, and it it the contact is Mary Bunting. She's the city manager now of Hampton City. It might I think it might be extremely valuable to get a read from the public maybe as we're doing our town halls. I don't know. Um,
>> that's part of what the budget survey does, right? Is it >> this was a very this was a very intense >> Yeah, they did that also during their Roth budget season I think. I mean they did it was kind of an all year. So I mean that's something you know because I know Mary and I'm familiar with this as
well and >> um you know I think that would be a great ongoing thing to look at >> and as and again I think we become more sophisticated with this as we have the survey we have the citizen survey that was mailed out. We have the budget survey. You know there's other tools out there. I I know that the city manager
looking at citizen engagement tools. So there's lots of there's lots of things in the toolbox and this is one of those things and I think we just need to gradually you know figure out what's best for this community and I values worked great for Hampton. I mean it's been it's gone it's been wonderful for them and so yeah that's definitely
something to look into for sure. So >> other guidelines >> did we give you direction? I think we need a little clarity on the meals tax and whether or not that will remain part of our consideration. >> I guess like I said, I'm willing to look
at it, but it's going to be part and parcel of other kinds of revenues from all kinds of taxes to fees and profers. I think we have to also look at other I would love to see this budget issue not just simply with the schools but all our other needs like the storm water
utility. what are all the other taxes that we might be raising and how that's going to impact the public. So I I want to see this in in a broader context of and then when we talk about revenues, look at the bid
districts again, how look at all the different ways we can raise monies. Um, and then of course is the growth of the I mean it was lovely to see that we've got a project approved tonight and um that is again multiplying our tax
revenues 12fold. >> Do you source some guidelines? >> Yeah, I I have expressed my displeasure with the meals tax as a revenue source. Um I find it a absolute last ditch
effort and certainly want to see more effort from the schools to economize and uh become more efficient before we would go to um something like that. So I you know I I doubt from what I'm hearing
that the meals taxes is going to happen this year. Um certainly under our the forecast. So, I hate for you to spend a lot of time on it. I mean, it it I mean, I don't in terms
of that, you know, the schools have they've been communicated to they're getting $1.8 million. So, some way we're going to have to figure out where those funds come from, and it's going to be the city that's going to have to figure that out. >> Yeah. I think it's a shame that we actually made that commitment at that
time. Um, given false you basically. >> Well, again, I'm looking to my peer. You know, I think our process will be a much improved one that will help deal with that, but it's going to be it's going to be tough. So, >> but I do think if we can find out what it is, what is that amount of money that
is now uh the state used to cover, but we are now incurring. We're we're acting like the schools have somehow been bloating their budgets, and they have simply not. I really encourage people to read the management efficiency study that was done four years ago.
It is extremely thorough study that goes into why there is a high per student cost but it's a very we have a low per capita cost for schools. So we're we're not overdoing it from a
per capita standpoint but per student we are because we're small. We have small schools and we have a very high needs population. I really urge everyone to take a look at that management efficiency study. Is this the one where they recommended closing a school? >> Yep. And that's what gave rise to the
reconfiguration plan just >> right. Well, we don't have to go into that, but um you know, if we're not going to abide by the management study, it doesn't exactly >> help. >> But it involves construction and that's >> if you look at the findings where
there's been some suggestion that they are not efficient. It's very important to read that study and then you will see that they are efficient. they meet all the benchmarks >> and they've absorbed a lot of unfunded mandates from the state in the
last several years without raising their budget at all. So, they've cut a lot of things already. >> I mean, I think that once again the point getting back to what um Miss Bergard mentioned is that if if if we abide by the $1.8 8 million that council has has indicated they'd like to to
provide a new money to the schools. Um, and we have to cover our own deficit without any sort of revenue increase for taking that off the table tonight. And we've got a fine between three and $4 million to from our >> current take that off the table. I I I'm
not prepared. >> I know, but I need that. I guess all I'm asking for is I need clarity because I'm not >> I think you said 1.8 million council agreed. I don't I didn't remember there was a consensus. It was a majority opinion. >> Yes, that's what we need for agreement.
>> Exactly. You said consensus. I don't remember there was a consensus. >> Well, anyway, it got the job done and it was somewhat a compromised position because some people wanted more. >> Right. I I vividly remember that.
Again, I would just say I think everything's everything still needs to be on the table in broader context, but >> and I would say that if the meals tax stays on the table, we're not going to just run and go we're going to increase the meals tax. I mean, we're going to look at every avenue possible before we did that. I mean, that's absolutely a
promise that we can make. Um that, you know, that's again the reason we're changing our process. We're taking a broader approach to it is to get more ideas from departments on how to balance our budget >> and not you know, and hopefully avoid increase. But the fact of the matter is that the school's issue is systematic.
It's a state- driven issue. It's not going to go away. It's going to be come back next year in future years. And so to deal with it in some long-term process, um that would be better than um you know another approach which is just giving them one time money year after
year. Although I guess there is an approach to weaning them off it, but you still have to approach it somehow to make it some sustainable in some way. So it that's concerning a little bit. They have a responsibility. The school system has a responsibility. >> And I think that was the compromised approach to saying we'll we'll help you
with half of the deficit. >> They can't raise money the other way. Yeah. And that's the other. >> But they can become more efficient. And the they've been, you know, the if we're not fair, if you'd like to put it that way, that the city is going to have to
bend over backwards and, you know, and come up with all these things to put everything on. >> It's not fair because the state has been cutting money. They've been totally abdicating the responsibility to children of the state and it's not fair. But it's not fair for us to blame the schools and to tell them that they just need to suck it up.
>> If we're going to put everything on the table, the schools need to put everything on the table, too. >> Well, no one's disagreeing with that. >> We asked them to. That's why we split the difference. >> And that's why I was concerned that we hadn't heard more from the schools as to, you know, a broad range of options
for for their >> I think they said they would find them. I don't think they need to tell us as they do it. They just need to do it. >> It's not our job to >> to do their budget or to >> Exactly. So, you know, it is really our, you know, it's so it's our choice how
much >> it's our job to fund our >> So, I would here's my proposal, which is um I'd like to see what the staff comes back with with a budget that does not include uh revenue increases and see what our choices are. And if that point
council decides these cuts are too draconian, um we need more options, then I'd say let's look at it. But I would personally like to take it off the table for now because I think I would like to see us um you know, our first stab should be at
coming up with a budget that where we live within our means within the existing >> I can agree with that the way that was phrased. >> Yes, I like that. But one thing that I'd like to add to that is that what I would really like to see is ongoing conversations with the restaurant industry in the meantime because I think
that even if this doesn't happen this year, it might happen in the future, might be something we'd look at in the future. And I don't want to do it without their support. I want to make sure that if we did do it, we find a way that that benefits them that they're comfortable with. It's not something I want to impose. Um, and I don't think we
could do that at the last minute if we find out that we're stuck. And so I'd rather start that process now. >> That would be part of my concern, quite frankly, is we if we we get down the road and we're in January, mid to late January, early February, and we're presenting to you a list of of potential
cuts. And the response we get back from council is that's unacceptable because then it is it is difficult at that point >> to go back and say, "Okay, well, now we're going to do a meals tax or real estate tax increase or whatever it may be." So that's that's part of my concern there. I'm just thinking that we might be put in a position where we do have to
do another one-time monies situation right now and then get on a much more systemic way of dealing with this systemic problem. Um because we we probably will be behind the eightball at that point. But I do like the idea of going the austerity
route first. um but knowing full well that we may be caught without the the resources we need at that point at too late in the day. But um
I do want everything on the table for this longer term solution. I do believe this is going to take some time to figure out the right mix and the right negotiations with all the parties involved to reach some mutual understandings between the schools, between the city and and I and wasn't
there a conversation with the county schools last week and the city and county schools? I don't know what what happened. I think that was primarily looking at their foundation and um okay how to generate more community support but I don't see that necessarily doing much this year to fill the budget
>> but it could in the future if there's >> I think they're taking along somewhat similar lines to as Miss mentioned earlier about how do we generate more private capital more private support >> I love the the social >> impact bonds you know I I I think those are all great ideas
>> you also said I am very supportive of the laser capital needs like labs and things like that. >> We were all pretty supportive if I remember correctly. I don't remember. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> And that was something that the surplus
from this past fiscal year 12 was going to be used for. Correct. >> Correct. >> It could be. I mean, we have we haven't officially that to >> council, but we seem to be leaning in that direction >> as it is an option for us. And that's another important way that we are supporting our schools is, you know, the idea that we'd be using the biggest
chunk of that surplus for this very important capital need that the schools have that are going to make the schools more attractive, which will hopefully increase attendance, which will increase >> financial support, etc., etc. So, >> are there other comments you should
convey to the staff for them to work at it? This is what we would do normally. Are we suggesting we're coming back to you in January or something? I mean, that would be the earliest obviously. I think we could
>> come back and it would be the latest I would suggest too because then we're really crunching time after that. >> So, >> first January. >> Yeah, I think it would have to be the second meeting in January quite frankly before >> I think it couldn't be that first week, but >> yeah. Yeah. >> So,
>> if not, we move to the next item. Is that everything you need? >> I think so. So, >> you know what you got? >> Do I know what I got? Yeah. It's way past my bedtime. That's all I know right now. Um, okay. I think so. I think what
I've heard is I I think everybody's okay leaving everything on the table, but you want us to take the more austere approach and actually come back to council in January to show what those might look like and then to make some decisions after that as we wrap up the budget and try to get something a
proposal done for March. >> And meanwhile, open up communications with restaurants about right >> what what it could look like, continue those conversations, >> look at the Rowan Oak model and see how that looks. Um, does that sound good? Sounds good to me. >> Okay.
>> All right. Great. Thank you very much. >> Next is a TJ update. >> A PowerPoint will be used. Okay. >> I can't get it on that. All right. >> You slip that in your pocket or where Christmas. >> I don't think I have a pocket. So, I'll
hold it up with that. And >> how do I advance it? >> I got too much. There we go. I'm Helen Coffin, president of the Thomas Jefferson Partnership for Economic Development located at 2211
Hydraulic Road in the Virginia Workforce Center. I really appreciate your time tonight to hear an update on our activities. As uh most of the council members know, I think we were formed uh 1995 in our public private partnership really
to bring the city together with eight counties, higher education and the private sector to focus on economic development collaboratively. And as your mayor said in your July 5th city work session, a good job is the best social program there is.
partners. Just so you all know, we actually host the Central Virginia Small Business Development Center and we also host the Piedmont Workforce Network. The Workforce Network um is currently undergoing a strategic plan and we appreciate Councilwoman Galvin's
participation in that process, trying to do better in terms of developing solutions for employers as well as job seekers. We have a number of investors, 52 in all, 41 private sector, plus the 8 counties, city of Charlottesville, and
then um small business development center gets SBA funds and PWA gets US Department of Labor funds. The city has heard this presentation before, but just as a reminder, we do we did uh just complete a target markets
report in April. Gave a work session on that to you all. The two regional targets as a reminder are financial and business services and information technology. We think all the targets uh offer possibilities across a number of
skill job skill levels but these are the targets that have the best chances for success. They can be organic growth support for existing businesses as well as recruitment. We also part of the same target markets report had chapters for each jurisdiction in the TJP region
which I think was the real beauty of the report by everyone working together. A very expensive study was made affordable. We have regional targets as well as locality targets. I think you all know this pretty well but Charlottesville has three main targets. Biosciences and medical devices,
information technology, which is where we include defense and security, business and financial services. and then two complimentary targets, health services and arts, design, sports, and media. I wanted to just quickly give you an all an update on our 2013 program of work.
Our fiscal year started July 1, so we're already uh that year is already underway, but just wanted to quickly uh let you know some of the things that we're up to. The first is really promoting Central Virginia, including City of Charlottesville, as a good location for business. We're really
trying to elevate the national profile of central Virginia and strategically disseminate information about the region's advantages as a business location. And we do this through our website, through marketing outreach, partnerships with the region's localities and your economic developer
Chris Engel and his peers throughout the region, Virginia Economic Development Partnership, who's coming over tomorrow to do a presentation to the Chris Engles throughout the region. And by talking about our assets in Charlottesville, I think you all are we're all very familiar with um the nice quality of
life here with the airport, strong strong research university, vibrant urban downtown, and of course a lot of uh wonderful housing options. So this is really about telling our story. The other thing we want to do that's equally important is cultivating and growing our
local businesses. uh as part of the target markets, biosciences will one of the targets for Charlottesville and Almor County. So what we've already done is pull together the city, the county, UVA, and TJ Ped pulled together local executives in the bioscience industry
and we said to them, what can we do to help you remain and grow here? And then we also said, what are the best assets here? What should we be talking about when we tell the story to startups coming out of the university that we want to be sure stay here or to growing biosciences companies that may be
tempted to look elsewhere. So we got a lot of good information from them. We also assist with workforce development again in partnership with PWN a big strategic planning efforts underway and I think stronger linkages to our existing businesses will be a key
piece of that plan when it's unveiled. Part of their existing business strategy is also promoting uh our innovation and entrepreneurial culture. We it is flourishing in the region. Charlottesville is the center of that in my view and we TJ Ped strongly supports
small business and entrepreneurship development especially through the central Virginia small business development center. We also want to deliver outstanding project management services. This means when existing business needs help in deciding are the demographics right? what higher
education attainment are the skill sets in the region will they work for their growing business. We provide a lot of research and information and have databases that all our economic developers and partners throughout the region can use but we just pay one
subscription fee as an example. We also help with site selection and um identification for growing companies seeking a new location who want to stay here, that kind of thing. And also support our participating jurisdictions. So when we get leads directly, we're the
project manager, but when leads come to the counties, we we support those counties to try to help them as much as possible and also promote a favorable climate for business. A lot of this really has to do with fostering regional collaboration with eight counties in the city city of Charlottesville. We're
focusing on trying to have everybody work together. So, because we think a collaborative approach is more efficient, effective, and ultimately more successful. Oops, it's not moving. >> Did
what did I do? >> Oh, well, in conclusion, I don't know what happened. I I might have done something. Who knows? U economic development, I always like to say, is a long-term process. It's a team sport. We all have to work together and a lot of
things have to be going on uh uh together in order for it to be successful there. That well, that was that was it. Uh I also want to let you all know that the TJ Ped board has approved moving to 50 cents per capita funding formula. We'll be phasing given
the budget issues that we're all dealing with, we'll be phasing that in over the next three three years and our funding request for fiscal year 2014 reflects that change. Um, finally, as of midepptember, I'm a new city resident and so I just want to let you all know
how I greatly appreciate how warmly I've been welcomed here. I started this new job in February. I had not lived in central Virginia before and I'm really enjoying it and would be glad to answer any questions you all have. Thank you so much. >> Any questions?
>> I will consider myself very lucky if you don't. >> I have one. I'm >> happy to answer questions. Yes. >> Um and you may not have it off the top of your head right now, but when you just of course I since we just came off the budget discussion, you got to expect that. My question is at 50 cents per
capita, if you could save me the math, what is that for us and what does it compare to what we pay now? >> Okay, you have been paying $12,500 since our inception in 1995. >> The 50 cents per capita would be about $22,000. That's what we would ask for in three years. For next year, our request is
$15,579. So, a slight increase. >> Thank you. that the way that really helps us is um well the the localities really uh as the county administrators at a group were really pushing for that because some of the smaller counties
were paying the exact same amount that an Almar County was paying as an example. >> I I have a question. Um do you work with anyone at the university? >> Yes, I do. >> Oh, okay. >> Colette Shehy is my treasurer. Oh my goodness. >> And then I work with Pace Locky and then
the folks at the UVA Foundation with the research parks and then also UVA innovation work with all of those groups extensively. >> I just wonder if you work with any of the professors. I I I asked this because I was just talking with a new professor
who looks at skills versus jobs >> and it was a really really interesting study actually. She says it's not necessarily >> I think Councilwoman Galvin and I would probably both be interested in finding out who that is and learning more about
it. >> I don't know her last name. I I don't know if if you'd be able to elaborate a little bit on what we'd talked about during the retreat. That seems like three months ago now, two months ago, but there there seemed to be this kind of epiphany of sorts that the
um economic development and workforce readiness uh need to really be handin gloved. It seems to make common sense to all of us here, but in practice it doesn't always happen. And part of that is how the federal workforce investment
act structured. They talk a lot about business driving it, but the funding is really very narrowly defined and and you have a lot of restrictions on how you can use that money. What I was really excited about at that retreat, there was a uh strong focus on how can we better
engage the business community and what the on the workforce side and by being housed with the Thomas Jefferson partnership which has a strong business community and 41 private sector companies are investing in TJPED. I think we can uh do a lot of good work in
the months and years ahead to really better integrate the two. And as a simple example, when my vice president left to pursue other opportunities, we're going to actually replace that position with the merge position. That's someone that reports to does workforce
activity as well as economic development activities because that's how you really get folks to focus on both is if they're doing both. >> Other comments or questions? >> Uh I'm not sure you'll want to hear what I'm about to say. So I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket here. Um, I appreciate all the work that you do and
that TJ Ped does and I don't want you to stop doing anything you're doing, but uh I was I was and I continue to be extremely disappointed in the outcomes of that target market study. Um because I know for a fact that when we entered the process and it was well before your
time so I'm not again I'm not blaming you but when we started the process of doing that study one of the the key uh goals of that whole enterprise was to figure out how do we create a job base for people that are currently in lowwage
deadend service retail sector jobs to help create the kind of job base that is going to allow them to to climb the ladder. um and and and join the middle class. I know for a fact that that was a a cause and and an issue that was near and dear to the heart of your
predecessor. And um and somewhere along the line that value and that focus got lost because what ended up being the focus of the the target market uh target market study were the the kinds of professions that were on on the on the on the screen there, which are financial
services, defense, biotech. These are all valuable things and they're all things we should be pursuing. That's why I say don't stop pursuing those. We want those kinds of businesses. But somewhere along the line, this focus on how do we create a job base, an economic base that's going to um help low-income
residents of our city and county and region climb the ladder got lost. And I know there was some talk about, well, these these industries do have spin-off effects and they do create some jobs um that will do the kinds of things that I'm talking about. But I really hope um
and I know we're gonna be hearing next >> from uh Mr. Engel, but I really hope we do we do more as a region and I and I know that TJPED can be play an integral role in this. We do more as a region to identify opportunities to bring back some of our lost manufacturing jobs.
Bring, you know, boost the skilled trade professions, boost the kind of jobs that that really can help people climb the ladder. And that's my little sermon. >> And and I heard you at the work session. And again, the one thing nice about being new is I can say I was new. >> I'm not playing a few more months out of
that one. So, but I appreciate that. And again, I think that's certainly something that especially the Workforce Network's very interested in when we talk about career ladder jobs. We're talking about career ladder jobs for everyone. So, you can get on that bottom rung and start moving up or if you're in the middle, you can continue to move up.
So, um I hear you. >> Thank you. comments or questions. >> Thank you all very much. I really appreciate it. No problem. Next is on the strategic action team
update. >> Okay. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of council. Still Monday night. >> Don't talk. Good morning. >> Good morning. >> I'll be quick. Uh it's a timely update uh following um the presentation from TJ Ped uh as well as some of the other information you were hearing earlier
from uh Leslie Bogard with respect to the budget and some of the approaches that uh will be taken uh in terms of how lead team members are going to engage in that process this year. Um so I'm going to give you a quick update on the strategic action team and some of you
are wondering exactly what that is. Um, so I'll I'll give you a little more insights into that, but you'll recall in July uh we had a work session um over at Citypace and the focus of that work session was uh job creation and job opportunities and much of that
conversation was uh in involved the orange dot report which was le released um in the latter part of 2011 and that report really reidentified for the community. It's not a new problem or a new issue, but made made clear uh
concentrations of poverty u related to unemployment, underemployment, uh families that are not able to be self-sufficient and um our work session had quite a bit of conversation about um what we could do about that and um if
anything and and how we should embark upon um that approach. So the conversation's also realized I think that um it's a very complex issue and difficult issue and not one that can be solved by throwing a bunch of money at
it or even a bunch of people and um you know starting up a new organization u to to solve the problem and that maybe it required a bit of a different approach and um the action that staff took out of that work session uh was to create the
strategic action team which consists of people from multiple departments departments. Um I think we have 11 people alto together right now. Uh we have u my office, office of economic development represented as well as neighborhood development services, uh human services, department of social
services and the city manager's office. Um so we have those folks in a room um one one or two times a month um since September. We started in September with a half today session that was uh actually facilitated by Barbara Kesler who's the co-chair of the Pedmont
Workforce Network and also teaches workforce at the University of Virginia. She's also a city resident is very interested and engaged in this process. She got us off on the right start um by kind of grounding us in in workforce and the current trends and whatnot and got
us thinking as a group and and uh encouraged us to move along. So, I think that was a helpful start. Uh since then we've uh kind of wrestled with what our our mission, our our vision, our our charge should be. And we we've settled on a simple sentence that uh we hope
encapsulates uh what we're about. And um that sentence is to foster employment opportunities that move city residents towards self-sufficiency. And um we don't claim that that's the greatest sentence in the world, but we think it
>> we think it um captures the essence of the conversation that we were having um in July. It it captures some of the conversation that was just had here. Um and it it follows along uh from the orange dot where the orange dot report left off. they made some some
recommendations um many of which that are are just kind of hanging out there uh waiting for somebody to pick up. So our our intent is to explore those further through um some of the work that we'll be doing. Um we created several objectives three at this point. We're
trying to keep this compact simple fairly fairly manageable if you will. Um and those three objectives are the first one is to identify the existing agencies, workforce development related agencies, organizations in the community and what they're currently doing. Um
some of this work was already done um through work that our department was doing. Some of this work is just generally known by the folks that are on the committee. We're actually kind of compiling that for the first time in a central document um that will be useful to us as we go
forward. So, that was kind of um job number one. We're still fleshing out the the details on all those, but we've kind of categorized uh each of the types of agencies, whether they're state or whether they're nonprofit or whether they're local, whether they're serving educational purposes or workforce
purposes or economic development. Um and we're kind of breaking them up in a in a graphical uh chart that we'll be happy to share with you. I don't have it tonight to share, but um that was kind of step one. Um, step two, which is the real meat of the issue, is to identify any issues, barriers to employment. What
is holding people back from being able to to get on a career ladder? Uh, is it uh access to child care? Is it transportation? Is it soft skills? Uh, is it basic training? Is it a GED? You know, what are these issues? And um our
our approach is to validate and verify and not assume anything as we go into this. um there are conceptions or preconceptions out there about um everything and we're not trying to to assume any of those. we're we're kind of
drilling down and saying, "Okay, um what's the real issue here?" And is there a real issue here? And if so, what can we do to address it? And that's really the third item that we'll get to, which is examining best practices, uh not only locally, but throughout the nation um that we can identify to
address these type of solutions to to create innovative solutions to these employment employment barriers. Um so, in a nutshell, we've got the charge and we've got those three objectives. Our goal is to come back to you um in June of of 2013 with a plan um a plan that
will line up under these charges and objectives. Um that will have some recommendations, maybe some policy recommendations, uh maybe a programmatic recommendation, maybe a recommendation for how the city could reorganize uh some of the things it's currently doing.
Um quite frankly, maybe some recommendations that are beyond the city itself. Um, in most communities, these these issues are are t tackled at various levels, oftentimes by an organization that is not local government. Um, sometimes it's a nonprofit, sometimes it's an educational
group. Um, we don't know what that's going to look like, but uh would suggest that you be open to to hearing all of those those approaches. Uh, I want to give you just a few examples of of what we are um exploring. Uh and with respect to transportation is the one we kind of
dug into um pretty immediately and we we've all seen the bus routes and we've all um heard the transportation consultants talk about the number of people in terms of where they live and how how many people are within a quarter mile. So uh that that's theoretically the number of people that could actually
use your transit system uh reasonably. Um, so we've taken that to another level and looked at employers and which employers are within that quarter mile walking distance to our existing transit line and um, to my knowledge that hasn't been done um, here. And so that's us
being strategic and using our our resources, our geographic information system um, to to actually run that analysis. And interestingly enough, um, we found that 97% of all the jobs in the city are within a/4 mile of a transit stop. So that's
>> Are they walkable in a quarter mile? Like no, >> like um >> impossible to cross 29 kind of walks between. We didn't get that far, but but but within >> it's actually something that we've talked about in terms of looking at the actual network route, whether it's a
sidewalk or a side of a road versus a river that you might have to cross. Uh that's kind of another layer or two down. But um the initial cut at it was to say, okay, where are the jobs and and where where are the bus stops? And 97%.
Um pretty impressive. and knowing that we are part of a regional community and that our transit serves the county as well. We've we've done this analysis in the county and uh 38% of the jobs in the county are accessible via via transit
and if you smush the county and and city together roughly 60% of the jobs are are accessible via transit once again within that quarter mile uh walking distance that is is deemed reasonable. Um so so that's one layer of kind of analysis. The the next layer that we actually will
pursue with this data is to look at the types of jobs that are within that 60%. And uh we can identify the the type of job then we can pull back the skills that are needed for that type of job and start to make some um some judgments on
that and to to see you know what what type of jobs are truly accessible for transit and for what type of folks with what type of backgrounds. So um just some ideas uh that we are exploring. Uh we're also doing this with child care in terms of uh the mapping component where we will actually map the locations of
existing child care um centers and we're also looking at cost u u the various costs that are available and and kind of showing them geographically as well to the extent that we can knowing that um those are often barriers uh to to u
folks actually going to work. Soft skills is another area that I mentioned. Um, and we hear this more and more from our employers uh in the work that we do in terms of the the skill level in terms of basic human interaction and ability to show up on time um is not what
they're looking for. And there's a there's a gap there. And so we're going to be doing some some surveying of of clients um both employers and uh clients that are in uh some of the Department of Social Services programs um to assess
the basic levels of of those skills and u try and kind of dig down a little deeper on um what where the gaps might be. So just a couple examples of of the type of work we're we're we're doing. Um, and I can say to date, the fact that
we've gotten together has been beneficial and I think is having dividends uh amongst the staff that are involved and hopefully long-term for the city. Um, there's been a greater information exchange um just amongst the the various departments that are in the room for this certain purpose. Um we
have had um numerous discussions with regard to the uh community development block grant funding and uh identifying types of programs or groups that could apply and just trying to encourage different groups to be involved in that.
Uh previously I think Melissa and and Melissa were were trying to to generate that interest. Now there's 11 people in a room that have, you know, various networks and contacts that can help reach out to make um to make more folks aware of that and hopefully generate
some some uh really qualified and and um competent responses that that could be useful. So, um, just a couple of examples of that. And the one final thing I'll mention is, um, many of you are aware of the strategic investment area, which is a a defined ge geography
just south of the downtown area for which a consultant has been chosen and is about to to get underway. Uh, we see that particular area, which coincidentally coincides precisely with the the darkest orange dot if you were to look at the the orange dot report
with respect to the map. Um we're looking at that process to kind of piggyback with them, leverage the uh expertise of the consultant that um is going to be involved there uh to to help us with what we're doing in this group
and also to learn about u you know what they may recommend but uh engage with the residents and the business owners and property owners in that area uh to help inform us as as we go through this. So u that is the update. Um, as I mentioned, we plan to put together an
actual plan document um, for your consideration um, sometime in June. So, I'll answer any questions if you have. >> Is it possible to for this group to follow an orange dot program itself? >> Say that again. >> Is it possible for this group to follow
the orange dot program? >> Um, I think we'll examine it. You mean program? uh >> starting the what you're suggesting >> the umbrella organization that would would serve. We may look at that. We may look as we look at best practices across
the country to see if we can find it. There's been a lot of conversation around that and uh discussion as to whether it's you know legal or functional or who would run it and how how it would be run. Um I think we'll explore that a little bit more. Uh I don't know that we'll come to a
conclusion as to whether that's the best thing to do or not or whether we'll recommend something else. But >> I I can add a little bit to that. Um uh I will be meeting with the two architects that were in charge of the emerging leaders in architecture program that did the the green dot
investigation. There is a document that they have where they did investigate prototypes and uh they did do their own GIS analysis of what was available in the area within walking distance and they will give that to me and I'll pass
it on to you. And secondly, Lauren Panel from Darden is with her graduate students are doing a much more in-depth investigation of business models for a a light industrial incubator and a light
industrial cooperative so that you're going to get more information related to best practices. >> Good. That's helpful. >> Other comments or questions? Um, I I'll just sort of reiterate what I said earlier and what I said at our
council retreat, um, which is um, I I love everything I've heard you say and I think you're the group's focusing on a lot of important things, but I just want to hear more about the um, the supply side. what what more can we be doing to
um not only prepare our residents uh and and connect our residents to career ladder jobs, but what more can we be doing to create and attract and build more career ladder jobs in our community. So, >> and that's partly, you know, along the lines of what you were just talking about, but I you know,
>> but uh in related to that though, too, and Mr. Angel and I have had conversations about for example the biotech industry uh that that industry has a lot of patented equipment that is built elsewhere. If there is a critical mass in the area they can start building
it here. Um so there is a there is a more profound ripple effect with some of the target industries. Then there's and we were talking about getting a group together to tour the microairs manufacturing plant on Airport Road. High precision surgical equipment that's
built there. Again, you need to have I mean the the industrial job of today is not the same that our grandparents and great-grandparents worked in. They're very highly skilled. But having said that, they don't require
usually more than a an associates degree or or a solid certificate program. And I and I know Valerie Palam Mountain has been working at certificate programs constantly. So, but that your point's well taken definitely is the supply
side's important. Another thing which I talked to somebody recently or a training program for people who don't have college education but still be able to get training in in software area and
automation data systems to be able to provide job opportunities for people who ner is pointing out. >> Okay. And I'd just like to ask um if uh you plan to include really talking to
the residents in your strategic initiative area to further so you sort of better understand what the barriers really are. I mean you've identified some barriers, but they might be surprising. >> Yeah, actually and that's part of what we intend to use as we kind of piggyback
on that that process. We realize that even with 11 people in the room is better than one. But, you know, that outreach is important and and we're going to we're going to do that as part of >> and the document you're using did that. I mean, that was where they got a lot of that information was through talking to
folks. >> But you're I agree that that needs to continue. >> And I would Yeah. I I would hope that that be particularly since you've got such an a great team, your strategic team, um that when you're like talking about soft skills, that's where our
internship initiative really, you know, plays into that. And you know, we're doing so many things that um do speak really to what your uh project is that we just need to keep in mind to have a really holistic look even even in terms of what we're going to hear about from
AHIP next meeting where stabilizing neighborhoods goes to speaks to to your initiative. I mean, it's it's a really a real big picture and and that's where I think we so often fail is that there are
those things you didn't even think of, you know, that that are the barriers. Anyway, >> well, it is a big picture and it's a big issue and I don't want to suggest we're going to solve it on June 30th of this year. Right now, >> we're going to we're making progress. Uh we hope to make more progress and and and have some more for for you all to
consider at that point. >> Thank you. It's exciting. One of the measure of a successful jobs program is to create jobs and how many jobs you can create, how many people you can train to make sure that they take benefit from those jobs.
>> In my mind, there's a crucial just like I used to talk about affordable housing, how many you build lately. >> Yeah. >> So that same same principle should apply to our economic development efforts. Well, we'll certainly be looking at measures in terms of all of this and um
it's very difficult, but um you know, we can track the number of jobs in our community and um you know, that number in the in the city has has gone down and we need to be realistic and and realize that that's that's the case. Changing that trend is is going to take a while.
Uh but I think we we can make some progress on it. And can I just make one other comment is as you were talking about collecting information and and uh you were talking about putting it into I can't remember what format you were talking about but to really think about putting it into a database and you're
probably doing this but with the with the idea that you know as you're mapping but as we can make the the this information available to the public ultimately um you know we're child care centers and just in case is to get it into a format that's flexible in how we
use the information. >> Yeah, we personally haven't haven't done that yet, but we've had actually a conversation um with a guy in the community that one or more of you have probably had conversation with James Quinn. >> James Quinn. Yeah. >> Um and he's doing something remarkably
similar um in a lot of respects. So, we've had several conversations about that. he seems to be interested in maybe there's a way that we we partner with them to to leverage the >> that' be great >> the software that they've created um >> right >> and input our data and make it useful
>> right it should be in the same format we with our GIS which I'm sure it is I mean it's not >> okay thank you >> thank you very much >> next item on agenda is a 909 East market street acquisition by Murphy
Poor Mr. Mur. >> You need a cup of coffee, Mr. >> We did advertise this for December 3rd. Right. >> Right. >> All right. Well, I'm uh here to talk with you all about 909 East Market Street, uh which the city has rented in
some form or fashion for 13 years now. And uh about four years ago uh my department uh came together with a program at social services and merged two different
foster family programs uh and at that time or shortly thereafter we began to rent the entire building from Mr. Benton Downer. Now, for uh the rate that we pay in rent uh at that building, which uh
exceeds $6,000 a month, um uh and the purchase price uh of that facility, we're in a place where basically we pay enough rent that we could buy the building outright after 9 years. And so uh since uh my department is really a uh
fee for service department in great part uh it's it's uh already in uh part of our budget uh to um generate fees and we can certainly sustain the building uh from a maintenance perspective. We have
the dollars on hand in our fund balance to acquire this property. And so we're here today to ask uh council to approve that purchase. >> Could you for the benefit of public indicate what the building will be used for? >> Sure. So uh as I said before uh
community attention traditionally operated a program called family group homes. Uh and the department of social services in the city Almar County and Green County operated a program called tri area foster families. Uh and in 2008 we began to merge those two programs. in
2009 formalized that into one program called community attention foster families. So as of today we have 84 children who are in the custody of the department of social services where we recruit, maintain, study uh and provide
the support for foster families. >> And so the >> so there's 14 staff people who work in that program in that building today. And the social services departments in those other counties pay you per kid. Right. >> Right.
So, you know, by the agreement when we agreed to take over the management of that, there's no uh straight local appropriation that goes into community detention foster families. Uh and it's all vended through the comprehensive services act. >> Okay.
>> Any questions? If there's the motion, >> I'll make a m there actually two actions tonight. One is to approve the purchase agreement. That's a one reading resolution. And the second action is the first reading on an appropriation. Let's move.
>> So I will make a motion that we approve the proposed purchase agreement. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion? Vote >> and I will move that we approve the resolution and appropriation. Here's >> the first reading.
Second. Second. Was it worth staying up late? I >> believe you want me to speak about the item that >> Mr. and that one too. I think there's one other between you.
>> No, that's it. >> Yeah. I don't remember M >> M. Right. >> Could you not discuss item M and consent agenda? >> Yeah. And and the reason I asked for it to be um hold was I I'm >> sort of to get first of all I think the
public should hear it. It seems like a kind of a big move. Um particularly given the the attention ABRT got uh during our last budget session. Um but I also have some some questions. So
in particularly in dissolving the uh CCF um what happens this year >> compared to what we've been doing. >> Right. So uh just brief recap for you all and uh those who are awake at home.
Uh so uh uh about a year and a half ago uh county staff and board of supervisors decided that beginning uh July 1 of 2013 fiscal 14 uh that they would not uh be financially supporting the commission on
children and families any longer. uh that was mentioned during the budget work session. Uh I believe it was March 29th. Uh and council uh at that time said that they um felt like the some of
the functions at the commission currently serves are extremely important uh and that they'd like to see the current staff person associated with the commission, Miss Ellis, become a part of the city staff. And so uh what you're
seeing here today is really something that would bring that into reality. Now the agency budget review process has been going on really over the last three or four months and the final meeting uh where all four
teams come together is actually next week. And then after that time uh there is a considerable amount of energy that comes uh from Gretchen and then local government staff uh you know some folks
from the county Ron White and Brian Elliot although Brian's retiring uh and then myself Ryan Davidson Leslie Bogard uh working with Miss Ellis. So, um, what you're looking at here, uh, would bring
Miss Ellis over onto the city staff, uh, in the first of the year, uh, she would certainly conclude that work, uh, of this year's ABRT process, and we'd talk about what duties we have going forward, which would certainly include ABRT. uh
and should the county decide to continue to evaluate community agencies in the same way with the agency budget review team process which has been one joint application for city county united way for many years now. Um so I'm sure our nonprofit community would love to see
that continue to happen. Um then it's already been discussed many times with the county executive's office and we've presented them um with an estimate of the staff time and what we would need to charge for that. So we don't know that
there's a corresponding revenue for that yet. Um but we do know what our total cost would be to go forward uh in taking on that position. But it's still funded as it has as was budgeted through this
fiscal year. >> It will be funded in that way through this calendar year. >> Uh and then so we will be realizing a half of year's savings by bringing uh Miss Ellis over here. And so that would
just translate into her position here. In addition, there was a fund balance uh for the Commission on Children and Families uh which will be transferring over uh and so that will in effect, it's my understanding from Leslie, will be
uh we don't need any additional dollars to make it through FY13. So the change in her uh Miss Ellis's um duties >> uh comes at the January 1st >> or no? >> Yes, that's correct. Absolutely. So is
that a new pos I mean is that so is this a new position with slightly different I mean this is one of my concerns is if this is a new position and and I heard and I read you know that she might be in in uh charge of P3 and um I'm just
wondering how different a position it is and really it sounds pretty important and should we just roll it over or should we sit back and really talk about what what this we want this position to do >> and the skills that are needed to do it, >> right?
>> I mean, that's that is absolutely no dis disrespect to to anybody because I don't know. >> Sure. Um what I would say is that um you know, we we clearly um are responding to what we feel like we heard from council
uh in the work session in March. Um there's a strong emphasis on human services planning. Uh obviously if Miss Ellis was to come on board uh the agency budget review team process we've presented to you about ABRT and council's expressed a desire to have a
needs assessment done. We would use those staff resources to conduct the sta the needs assessment rather than hire a consultant uh to do that and we've already ballparked that at $30,000 if we use a consultant instead. Um and then in
addition, you know, we're doing other things uh with uh youth council that are coming forward. We're advancing uh P3 and certainly uh with the uh emphasis on ABRT over the years on outcome measures
that fits neatly. Uh and so uh while Miss Ellis would be located uh in my department, certainly there'd be some uh sharing uh with budget and performance management to help make that happen. But you're uh completely correct in that it
would be a new position uh and that a job description had to be created uh and it certainly adds to the FTE count. >> I'd like to ask a couple of questions. How much rent was the county charging for the office where she was before?
>> I think our share of it was like $24,000 a year. >> $48,000. >> Yeah, I think it's 48,000 in total. So our half >> $2,000 a month >> just for our half. >> For our half. >> Yeah. >> And so what will it cost to house her here? >> We're not charging for that. We own the
building that I'll be putting her in. >> You own the building. So that's not the building that you're paying. >> No, >> you don't own it like since the last 10 minutes. No, this is the original boys room from the 70s where my office is. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, it's going to be a considerable
savings that we'll have on the housing part of this. >> Yeah. I I'd need to look at what the current appropriation is for the city, but I I think that it was in the area of $87,000 uh in the year and um we believe that
the total cost for the position would be about $108,000 for my department. Um I'd have to pull that. Um but uh uh you know there could be some corresponding revenues of course uh either from grants
uh or uh if she was to manage the ABRT process and we took in monies from the county. >> So it's about 20% more for twice as much person basically. >> And and and I will say that that Misellis is a grant writing machine. So I'm I'm expecting that we'll generate
more revenue than she costs in the course of some time. I I want was wondering um this is kind of going to the second part of what we're what we're deciding with this but I would really hope that as as we dissolve actually I guess it's the
first part as we dissolve the commission and I know it's sort of fed the county's already done it. It's not like we could not dissolve the commission at this point, but that that we add to our resolution dissolving the commission that we extend our appreciation and gratitude to the members of that commission and the youth council as well
for all of the their work to support children and families in the community. Um I think that that that's a valuable body that we're losing and and I'm glad that we're starting our own youth council because that's going to kind of fill some of that role in the city. Um but to have a a council of folks whose
job it is to kind of watch out for the kids and families in our community is a valuable. >> So is that part of your motion? >> Yes. >> Okay. So is there a motion on the floor to adopt this idea? Thanks to the >> this first part is just to yeah to dissolve the commission, right?
>> Oh that that was actually the second part. That's >> yeah which is matter what order we do. So, so I will make a motion that we dissolve the commission of children and families with that language as expressing our gratitude and thanks. Well, gratitude is thanks. >> Second to the
>> second discussion. >> Yes. Um um over the years the commission has done a lot more than just the ABRT process >> and it's and some years it's done more and some years it's had resources to do
less. But um um I think there is there is value in bringing all these agencies and individuals together. And what is the argument for why we shouldn't continue having our own Charlottesville Commission on Children and Families? I mean, >> I think it's a great idea.
>> It's more like an advisory body. >> It it is actually something that we're that we're working on right now. Okay. Yeah, we've had conversations with Miss Ellis about that and Okay. Um we're certainly open to to doing that type of thing, whether it's called a children's council or something like that. Um We have been looking into that as opposed to
>> I was planning that we used to have one for the city alone. That's how this thing evolved. We're coming back same. >> Any other questions on this motion? If that vote, >> do we need another motion? >> Mhm.
>> Okay. >> Somebody else make the next motion. >> Sure. This is the for the um the actual >> transfer of the dollar. >> Yes, I move that. >> Is there a second to the motion?
>> The I move the appropriation of funds for the human services plan of 63,76 second that any discussion on that. >> It's the first read, right? >> Yeah. >> Any discussion? >> It's first read. >> Okay. Thank you very I would like to to
just to be kept a breast of how this is all changing and what the roles are and um what that planning process what this is because this is a new position and I think that's important we >> please keep us report quarterly every
six months or something >> I can do that >> thank you for thank you very much and we got you out today >> we have one more opportunity for the public to participate if anybody would like to speak or any topic Please go forward >> before the parking lot closes.
>> Yeah, we got 15 minutes. >> Oh my god. >> That's right. He's so parking lot. >> I had to. I was running late. >> Hello. >> Hi. >> My name is Donna Cardi. I live at 8026th Street Southeast.
Uh I sent you all a letter regarding the last meeting. I got one reply. First thing I wanted to say is I'm rather disappointed that I only got one reply. Thank you. Second, uh I don't want to discount uh
your experience with poverty, but what I do want to point out is that in looking at behaviors such as vulgar language or what might be considered threatening, people are very different and very
subjective in what they think and whether they're going to report it or not. I mean, I would have a really hard time if I tried to to convince somebody that I was menacing them. It's just not going to be easy with my voice and with
my gray hair and all. On the other hand, Mr. Brown, all he would have to say is, "Hey," and someone might decide they've been menaced. So I I think that criminalizing any sort
of behavior like that, it's bound to be enforced here, not enforced there, depending on who we're talking about. Uh third, uh I want to point out to you guys, and I'm very, very proud of this. HAVE YOU
ALL NOTICED WHAT OCCUPY New York has been doing? And what a great job they've been doing with taking care of the people in New York. Have you seen the stories? The agencies have been coming to them because they did the best job. They had the best network.
Well, I think you found saw in last week's council meeting that the Occupy network in Charlottesville is still very alive and well and active. And I would like to suggest that uh yeah, we were doing a pretty good job
with the homeless when we had that park. Maybe that would be something you could task us with to try and work out a way to deal with the homeless other than criminalizing them. Uh let's see. I wanted to say something
about what the guy who just spoke was talking about guy in the dark shoe uh with the with the jobs program. I think you have to remember that if people are to climb a career ladder, they have to be interested enough in
that job. And so I found it very interesting that among all the information he's gathering. He hasn't asked the people who don't have the jobs what kind of jobs they want, WHAT kind of jobs they would be interested in enough
to put in the work and to develop their skills to get to move on up the ladder. Okay, I found it very interesting and nobody asked the people who are without the jobs that. And last of all, I just want to make my
statement about the mall. The mall is for all. It may be in the north downtown neighborhood, but it's not the north downtown's mall. It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be for all Charlottesville. And it has the
potential to be a crossroads where all the different communities come together and and and interact with each other. And I think a I think we could do a lot more in encouraging that, encouraging people from Fville, spend time on the
mall. I'm sorry. They aren't going to spend a whole lot of money in the stores that are there now. They can't afford a lot of the stores that are there now. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage them to come there. Same applies to the folks of the Woolen Mill neighborhood and to my own Belmont. Oh,
we could use a hardware store. All these people, you know, with the houses they're fixing up. >> Your time is up. Thank you. >> Okay, that's managed to get it all in. Anybody else would like to speak? >> I'll just make this real quick. Uh,
>> your name. >> Late at night. >> Your name, please. >> Oh, yes. Scott Andy, >> Cherry Avenue. Thank you. >> And uh late at night when uh some of us suffer insomnia, I've been very fortunate to
see out my front door along Cherry Avenue fox and two deer. And this is like about 2 between 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning when the insomnia is really really really stoked up.
Uh I just albino deer. >> Now the reason I >> there I I can tribute what's going on up at Ragged Mountain. Why the deer and the fox and a lot of the uh wildlife is coming to visit us city folks. Uh aside from that, I wanted to send a
thank you to whoever it might be public works. It might be VOTE. I don't know who. But I I've definitely noticed two signs. one after you cross the JPA bridge from the chicken uh Virginia old old Virginia chicken place and uh the
other one in front of Chipoty's at the uh Barracks Road Shopping Center. These uh deer inc. And I that has saved a lot of lot of people a lot of unnecessary grief. I think it's
widened their eyes to keep a lookout for our fuzzy nature friends. >> Thank you. >> Good night. >> Anybody else would like to speak >> real quickly about behaviors that Mr. Norris is talking about? I know that you all have access to the um
Charlottesville Police Department stats about the downtown mall so far from January 1 to June 19th. And in several categories, I've seen some behavioral type issues under calls for service and under arrest that have been quite significantly decreased. Uh the ones
that really stood out to me at almost 50% decrease drunkenness, drunk in public for calls for service. Under arrests, I've seen a significant decrease in public swearing or intoxication. So something is going on. Something is working. Um, I know part of
it has to be the support of housing with the crossings, but I think that, you know, it's a trend that, um, you all were talking about and, uh, I was glad to see that when I looked it up on this, um, website and thank you for the police department for, you know, having these stats available and in a very easy and
understandable format for people like me. Thank you. >> Thank you for looking them up and telling us. >> Is there anybody else who would like to speak? If not, we are Hallelujah.