Good evening everybody. >> Good evening everybody. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you all for being you all for being here. Um I call the March 25th Charlottesville City Council special meeting to order. The purpose of this meeting is to receive a presentation from the low barrier shift work group outlining a proposed vision
for the shelter at Holiday Drive. Can everyone hear me pretty well? Okay. >> Sorry. >> I'll work on my uh projection. Um, madame clerk, will you call the role, please? >> Councelor Kaiser
>> here. >> Vice Mayor Ashin >> here. >> Councelor Payne >> here. >> Councelor Snook >> here. >> We're expecting Mayor Wade. >> Um, all right. We will now turn the meeting over to the city manager to
see what's next. >> So, good evening, council, members of the public. uh this late afternoon evening we are going to hear uh from this illustrious group on the other side of the room here who has been working very hard. I want to uh acknowledge my
thanks to them uh as I've shared with them and the presentation that they made to me recently about this project that I appreciate all your hard work. I know it wasn't easy and I made it hard u because the timeline was short but because all the folks who are interested in this
issue have made it a priority for me I must say u but we are uh most definitely interested in the presentation that you're making to council to today and the goal would be for council to have an opportunity to first hear from you directly ask any questions that occur to them today and give them an opportunity
to think about what they've heard and begin further conversations with me on how we move this effort forward. So I'm going to turn it over to Shayla and I guess you will take care of introductions please for the group and we'll go there. >> So sunshine will >> sunshine. All right. Perfect. >> So I asked for the privilege uh my name
is Sunshine Mthon, executive director of Pedmont Housing Alliance. I've been on the peripheral support of the working group and I asked for the privilege of kicking off the presentation to share some initial reflections I've witnessed on the process. Um, over the last number of months, I
have been a witness to and peripheral supporter for this extraordinary binding of purpose and hard work by the leaders of our region's unhoused service organizations led by Shayla Washington at the Blue Jerry Coalition for the Homeless, our region's federally mandated continuum of care agency, COC
agency. I can say unequivocally that any historical fracturing between these organizations is exactly that, history. the holiday drive site and the prospect of it becoming a comprehensive organized center of support that has has catalyzed the deepest and most sustained
collaboration between these agencies that our community has ever witnessed. I know from the outside it's difficult to understand why this kind of process seems to take a long time and to be clear this in the best of times this work is h a r d hard but we are not in
the best of times this work has blossomed during the most hostile federal uh environment uh that this work has ever seen particularly to the unhoused services sector. It has also taken root during one of the most difficult winters in recent memory that has stretched the day-to-day operations
to their limits, let alone being able to maintain the capacity to plan plan long term for transformational change that their respective organizations and the system as a whole desperately needs. Throughout the process, each of these leaders has definitely balanced the daily needs of their staff and clients
while navigating a dramatically changed future with their boards and staff leadership. And lastly, I believe it is critical to understand that we all of us as a region and I do mean all localities in the region, Almar, Luana, Louisa, Green, Nelson, and Charlottesville, have
never invested sufficiently in our homeless response organizations and system as a whole. We are now having to play catch-up in real time and this team their these leaders are setting forth a sophisticated informed path forward. So with that, with the deepest respect,
I'll hand it over to Shayla. Thank you. All right, if you could advance to the next slide, please. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for being here and for your interest in this subject. My name is Shayla Washington. I'm the executive director of the Blue Ridge Area Coalition for the Homeless, which serves
as a COC lead agency. I'm joined on this panel today by Cameron Moore who's the interim executive director for Kocham, Owen Brennan who is the executive director for the Haven, Major Donnie Wilson who's sitting back here who is the core officer for Charlottesville and Erin Hanigan who is a principal at uh
Mitchell Matthews Architects and Planners. Um also I want to give a really big deeply uh appreciative comment to Mr. Wes Mitchell. He is um our facilitator for this low barrier shelter workg group. Came in completely neutral. learned a lot about our
continuum of care and did so much to move this work forward in a meaningful way. Um, so thank you so much Russ. You are amazing. >> Great. >> Um, there's also a list of other working group members who are listed on this slide and some of them are in the room
today. So I really also want to shout shout you guys out and appreciate you all. Um, you can advance to the next slide please. So this slide is a highlevel executive summary of some of the things that we'll be tackling in today's presentation. We really wanted to focus on
transformational impact at 2000 Holiday Drive. We want to increase our safety net and improve it. Um ideally just creating pathways to stability housing. Um our design process was really focused on tailoring um the feedback that we received from the the people we serve,
from other stakeholders in the community. Um, and so that was really an instrumental part of what we uh created in today's presentation. Our capital costs have reduced roughly 11% from 9.7 million to 8.6 million. Uh, but we are still keeping a lot of the core
programming goals the same. The programs will support day shelter services, coordinate coordinated entry, case management, housing navigation, and connections to health care and workforce supports. Um, we do have a slide talking about some near-term uses that we're proposing, but that is contingent on
building code official um, approval and review. Transportation was a big need that was highlighted through a lot of our key conversations with stakeholders, especially the people we serve. Um, so we will be diving in deeper into the uh, transportation issue and our operating
model is based on housing focused staffing and coordinated service delivery and I hope you see that through our presentation today. Next slide, please. So we are going to next talk about some programs that will drive outcomes. Next slide. Uh we really want to focus on expanding
our housing programming. So the Haven currently has homelessness prevention, housing navigation, rapid rehousing, the Laura DAP Haven housing fund, which is a flexible housing fund. All of these programs ensure steady exits from shelter into permanent housing uh while strengthening the homeless response
system in our community. Ponchum plans to increase its case management staff to provide housing navigation and potential outreach support as needed. Uh we do plan to maintain community engagement and support through donations, volunteer efforts, and continued partnership with the Salvation Army. So although they're
not going to end the holiday drive project, um we will continue to transition clients as needed from the low barrier shelter to the program based shelter that they offer at the center of hope. Next slide, please. So now I'll turn it over to Aaron who is going to
talk about the design. Go to the next one. So again, my name is Aaron Hanigan. I'm with Mitchell Matthews Architects and Planners. We're a local firm here in Charlottesville. Um to go through our process, the low barrier shelter working group assembled in August and um met
basically weekly over the course of a number of months. um the Haven and Mitchell Matthews joined this working group in late September and from there we really worked on so it was starting as visioning and transitioned into programming specifically deciding what
functions needed to occur in the holiday drive building um or at a low barrier shelter. In that in the course of that the city announced their intent to purchase Holiday Drive and we pivoted from studying a different site to studying Holiday Drive. um continued
with these uh weekly meetings and also incorporated precedent studies. We went to Keratas in Richmond and also Open Doors in Harrisonenberg as two um nearby locations that are doing similar work in their communities. Um and we completed
phase one with our initial proposal to uh the city manager's office on November 5th. you know, the next. So, there was about a month break and we reassembled in December um and and started again in phase two. And during
phase two, we were really trying to refine the program um decrease the size of the project a bit um and reconsider some of the design options in the building. So, we continued with weekly meetings. Um we also incorporated a lot
of feedback, community engagement with the um lived experience advisory board with uh guests and staff uh various presentations at different points uh more detailed conversations with different subgroups and completed what
we're calling phase two. Um we gave a second presentation, a version of this on March 11th. Next one. So, in the fall, we came up with two development options. Um, they're pictured on the left. Uh, we named them
option one and option two. Um, they both had advantages and disadvantages. And when we started phase two, we were asked to see if we could reduce the footprint of the um size of the project, try and get everything into the existing
building um and and still keep all of the the programmatic functions that we were initially providing and just sort of try and squeeze it all in there and downsize it as needed. So we have produced an option three which is the one diagrammed on the right hand side of the slide. You can go to the next one.
Um and the question that we get um primary question is how many beds are in this uh new proposal. So this is a table illustrating the existing quantity of beds in the um left column there. Uh our
proposals in the fall which again we're calling phase one um is in that center column and our phase 2 proposal which you're going to see today is in the right hand column. Um they are categorized as there is a gender separation occurring in the building
between men and women which is the existing condition happening at Patchchum. Um the ranges you can see under the existing quantities vary by location. So some churches can hold more occupants than others. That's why there is a high and low range to the men and
women numbers in the lefth hand column. Um to further define what's on this chart, there are isolation rooms, which are basically single occupancy rooms. Isolation would occur if someone is sick. Um would also be if there is a
behavioral issue where someone needs to be separated. Um and they just need to cool down. There's a potential space that they can go to uh for an it's an undefined number of nights, maybe one night only. Gender neutral is just that
if it's um individuals who don't identify as men or women then there are uh neutral spaces for them to house them um outside of the designated men and women areas. Um medical respit is defined as
sort of a step down coming down from the hospital. Uh those are the beds we removed from the program between the phase one proposals we did in the fall and the current proposal you're going to see now. Um and it's to be determined with UVA health whether that would be a future uh phase that could be added back
into the project. In conclusion, we currently have 80 beds um requested to be in the project now, which is an increase of 20 to 30 beds over the existing conditions that Patchum currently has. Um and that is
our sort of minimum goal to meet to inhabit holiday drive. Go to the next one. This pie chart explains how the spaces in the building are utilized. So the overnight shelter areas are the majority
of the space. 37% is in purple. The eating is a com both the kitchen and support spaces for the kitchen as well as the dining room takes another 20% day shelter spaces, which is um could be considered what the Haven is currently
doing, migrating to Holiday Drive. That's 10% considered the day shelter. Again, the health clinic is also something that currently happens inside the the Haven as part of the day shelter. Takes up 3%. Shared support
spaces are spaces that would be occupied um could be occupied either by staff or by clients who are on site. So um the list again over on the right classroom spaces conference and meeting spaces um
small private phone zoom rooms things of the like and then the office and resident support space makes up the remaining 18% and those are primarily uh workstations and offices for the staff that are on site. Go to the next slide.
So this is the first floor plan proposed first floor plan. And before we get too far, I do want to mention that this is considered a test fit or conceptual design. It's very early in the design pro uh process. Um this should not be
considered a final plan, but instead the first best um take at what we need and what is um has been collaborated on across this group. The main entrance is down there at the
bottom with the red triangle here at the front of the building. Um, you walk in, there's a vestibule to the left or most of the day shelter spaces, the main lounge, a check-in desk there, a dining room and kitchen. The colors again are associated with that pie chart on the
last slide. So you can correlate um those in this area on the right hand side are offices and meeting and support spaces that are shared again in the maroon. Um we are proposing the addition of an elevator which is programmatically
necessary because the uh overnight shelter is occurring on the second floor and we need an elevator that can accommodate a stretcher based on how often that need occurs at the existing um locations. And then the building is
not code compliant as it currently exists in its means of egress. So, we have a new egress stair. Um, also in this addition, you can see that there's some unfinished space and that's uh we're planning that for a potential uh UVA health clinic to occupy that as a
phased condition fit out in the future. Um, gray spaces are support uh dark gray walls are existing walls. All the red walls are uh new walls in this scheme. We move to the next slide.
So again, the second floor is dedicated to the overnight shelter. Uh we've set up little pods of about 24 beds per pod. So rooms are broken down into eight person bedrooms. Um so there's a bed, an
aisleway, another bed, and then a partial height wall. And then that module repeats. Um the beds are three feet apart from one another, which is tight, um but acceptable. and improved conditions over what is currently happening in at the PCHum sites right
now. Um so we have an eight bed bedroom, another eight bed bedroom, this one's four beds, one isolation room and this grouping shares a bathroom um some laundry sto bedding storage and um
to toiletry storage. Uh and then that module is repeated throughout the plan. So the blue is representing the men's beds. The pink on this side is representing the women's beds. Um so we have men generally on the left hand side of the plan, women generally on the
right hand side of the plan. And again that is important to maintain gender separation. Um for safety primarily uh women being comfortable with being in the facility uh want to have uh need the separation
uh between the men and the women. Uh we have genderneutral beds here in the middle with private bathrooms and then uh the little bit of yellow and maroon that's on this floor are for the support staff that would help monitor and provide case management overnight.
Um there's laundry facilities, storage, a small men's lounge, and a small women's lounge that make up the rest of the plan. >> Can you give us a quick number of how many beds are on either side, please? Um, if we go >> within the table, I think we had 48
men's beds plus two isolation rooms and 20 24 plus two on the women's side. >> Thank you. >> And then four gender neutral here in the middle. Uh, there's an existing outdoor porch in
this area that we're maintaining in its current condition. You can go to the next slide. And the last floor is the basement. Um this the basement is only a partial basement. The existing building doesn't really have an occupiable
basement. Has a little bit of MEP space, mechanical, electrical, and plumbing space um under the footprint. And so the this middle piece where which was an addition in the 90s um does have the basement. We're proposing the shared meeting room on this space and more
office space specifically for Brock's offices which are the smallest entity of the three that are combining to be here. Um this storage space is patchum storage space to replace storage units that they currently rent. Um it's not client
storage. And the rest this portion of the building which was the 1995 edition also does not have a basement. um has a partial crawl. Uh go to the next slide. So coming back to the first floor, I
mentioned that this corner of the building over here um in the base price proposing that it would be unfinished, but that it could be fit out as clinic space. So if you go to the next level, we have an enlargement of that clinic space. We worked with the clinicians that come to the Haven to understand
what their needs are. They're currently operating in the sanctuary space at the Haven um with a lack of privacy um uh not compliant with HIPPA laws. Um >> maybe compliant but not
not uh ideal. >> Yeah. So fitting out this space for the clinician with two medical exam rooms, one a therapist psychiatrist room and some minimal staff workroom and storage space there.
And we've priced that independently um with the idea that maybe UVA health would come in step in and assist with that portion of the program. You can go to the next slide. These are some photos of the front of the building. This is the elevation that
faces the 250 bypass. Um, again, this is the front door here in the middle. Um, you're looking at the aerial condition. Here's from the street. There's obviously some accessibility issues with the existing stairs up to that from the street elevation. Um, there is a nice
terrace here. Can you go the next? So, in addition to the interior renovations, there will be some necessary exterior improvements. We're suggesting that there are accessibility improvements, ramps that bring you up to the main
front door from the street. Um, and then the egress from this elevator would also allow you to come out through the stair and come out to the sidewalk. Um, conveniently also locating a proposed bus shelter that could be a shel uh um
drop off spot for transportation, whether that's a shuttle or a bus or stop or some other um proposal. There's parking that wraps the building, existing parking wraps both the western side here and the northern side back here. Not proposing any changes to that.
Um the other entrances to the building, we would designate this one existing entry back here as the kitchen and staff volunteer entrance that brings you directly into the kitchen. And then this one that happens to be in a little bit of a courtyard could be the a staff entrance and donation drop off to really
designate um clients coming in the front door. Um staff being able to have a back door and kitchen deliveries in particular having their own separate door. Um other improvements, bike racks, tables, uh providing shade in some
manner and exterior storage lockers, which we actually heard from clients um as a as a need that if they were restricted had restricted access to the building um that they could still get to their belongings in some way.
And go to the next. And with all that work that we've done in the last few months um to work on these plans, we still have not been able to fit all of the requested program that is necessary to accommodate these three entities into the building. So we're missing three offices, five
workstations, um and two smaller conferencing areas and we're not able to accommodate those at this time. Go to the next one. Um, so now we're going to talk about the construction cost maintenance again.
>> Do you want us to save all our questions for the end or do you want to do >> We can whatever you prefer. >> Might I make make a recommendation that you do save them to the end because there going to be a number of other things that get covered that probably will >> cover the questions that people
>> Sounds great. I'll just note them as I go. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, construction cost. So again, in the fall we had two options. Um the pricing for those came between the top one was 9.9 million, the bottom one was 9.7 million. Um through the work to reduce
the project, we came down to 8.6 million. Again, these are all preliminary estimates of the probable construction cost based on very early concept information and should not be taken as um the exact fixed price that
this will be. it's going to be a plus or minus and it will all change. It may go up, it may come down as further information is developed um that explains the project and the assumptions that are being made by those estimating the project can be confirmed through
further um analysis, investigation or um design work. And that is typical of every design project that we work on. Um so we have gotten the question why aren't there more savings versus what we've done because diagrammatically it's
reducing quite significantly from what you see on the left to what you see on the right and the primary reason is because it's a heavier renovation meaning that more of the existing fabric of the building is being torn out to
accommodate the new condition because every space needs to be right sized for exactly what that function is so that we we're not wasting any space in this building. So, as we pack it in to try and decrease the new construction, um
we're actually increasing the renovation costs in the existing building. So, that number raised from 1.2 million in the diagrams to the left to 4.5 million in the diagram to the right. There's also more site work that and kitchen
equipment than was developed in the fall. So that number is more accurate now with increased information. Um the addition even though it's small is more complex than the one in in phase one. The phase one edition over here some of
this was just a singlestory edition whereas this one proposed is a three-story edition. Um escalation times have changed since uh November. Unfortunately, the economy and the world
has uh changed significantly and that is reflected in more cautious estimating um and increased pricing. Go to the next slide. So again, we're looking at uh renovating
the existing building 26,000 square feet and change uh new construction of just under 4,000 square feet. The construction cost estimate just under 8.6 6 million. Uh the timeline to do that renovation is anticipated as 12
months. The uh corner again diagrammed here that would be on the first floor of a fit out is 750 net square feet. And we would work with UVA health hopefully to uh fund those construction costs and um really understand further what how they
needed to fit out the building. can go to the next one. Um, uh, this is a more detailed analysis of the cost estimate that you can't read unfortunately at this scale. Um, but it does go through all the various, um,
disciplines and and divisions that go into creating a cost estimate. And what is not included here is FFN. So, uh, furniture is extra on top of this number. Um, FFN is typically 10% plus or
minus of the construction cost. If you want to estimate a a full project cost as opposed to just the hard construction costs, you go to the next one and I'm going to turn it over to Owen.
>> Thank you. winner. Um so in in parallel with the low barrier shelters design work with Aaron the Haven's been going through our own decision process um which began in December. Um ne next slide please.
Um in December um not 2026 in 2025 we partnered with the Spark Mill a consultant group out of Richmond to answer this core question. is relocating some or all of our programs to holiday drive in the best interests of our guests and mission. Um, and this was
really the animating question that we were trying to figure out. Um, our core stakeholders are our guests and they are the folks who we are accountable to um above all else. So um to to answer this question, we formed a committee um made
up of staff, board members, former guests, um one external partner um and we created that decision-making criteria for how we were going to answer this question. Next slide, please. Um once we had that criteria in place,
we set to work gathering stakeholder feedback and did a ton of work in February led by the Spark Mill. Um we engaged with 128 participants over the course of that month. Um 68 guests, the majority of folks, and again these are
the folks who were centering in our decision-making process. Um 12 of our 25 staff participated in focus groups. um 25 of our volunteers filled out um an email survey. And then the spark mill um held eight different focus groups with a total of 25 community partners um
ranging from um the the soup kitchens to um city staff, county staff, uh Potchum Brock to to really gather from our community partners what would what would this move
mean for the ecosystem we're operating in. >> Next slide, please. So then um in March we moved into the final phase um uh the spark mill took all of that information and created an
incredible um stakeholder uh feedback document. Um our internal committee reviewed all the feedback, matched it with our decision-making criteria, drafted a recommendation. Um our our the Havens board discussed this recommendation last week at um the March
17th meeting reconvened again last night voting to accept the um our internal committee's recommendations. Next slide. So this is the decision matrix that we used um to answer these uh to answer this question. Um this is
these are the nine criteria we use. They're ranked in the order of weight. So most important is financial viability. Can can the haven um how does this affect our economic sustainability? And then I'll go into a little more detail about about these um but but this
is these are the nine criteria. Um next slide please. So these are the areas that received broad support across all four of our stakeholder groups. Uh number four, improved facility and space design was
the only criteria to receive across the board support from all four stakeholder groups, guests, staff, volunteers, and community partners. Um our our current building at 112 West Market Street, the limitations that of that building are
acknowledged by all groups, and the potential of the holiday drive space is broadly seen as a fruitful opportunity. Um, guests are excited about the expanded overnight shelter space, including more showers, more storage space, more overnight capacity than
currently available, and more private spaces. They're also excited about the outdoor space. Uh, the potentials there. Um staff are excited about an opportunity to design a space for our culture and our needs and using what we've learned in our space over the last
16 years, how to um how to improve the guest experience. We're excited about the natural light, the sound buffers, and the opportunities for more staff well-being. And the fact that this was the crit this was the criteria that received across the board support I think is a testim
test testament to all the work that has gone into the design process and all of the feedback sessions that we held with guests with other stakeholders to share the design early on get feedback make changes. Um all that communication has really been key to getting buy in uh
about the the potential for this improved facility. Um it's also a reminder that our our guests voices and concerns have to be centered through each successive stage of oper operationalizing this project. Um the second criteria that got broad
support was partnership alignment. The prospect of Brack Patchcham and the Haven operating under one roof is the most exciting element of the holiday drive proposal for those who are closest to the service system. Um, colllocation promises coordinated care for the community members that all three of our
organizations serve, stronger communication and collaboration between our organizations, and an opportunity to level up the effectiveness of our homeless response system and create that transformational change that Shayla mentioned at the beginning. Um, but our organizational histories and
the complexity of shared governance structures are real and it's going to take really intentional work over the next few years to build stronger relational structures that amplify our respective strengths, delineate clear lanes for each organization and mutual accountability structures.
Next slide, please. Okay, so this slide highlights the three areas of um in which our stakeholders expressed the sort of cautious uh support. Um these should be read as generally positive but flagged as like there could be some concerns in this
area. Um I I I definitely note that you know neither of the stakeholders Oh, I'm sorry. Skipped ahead too far. All right, great. Um so caution generally positive but flag specific conditions that would need to be met for
the project to be successful in the long term. U first one is financial viability. What's the long-term operating model and can the community raise the funds? Can we and the community raise the funds necessary to maintain high performing services. Um we'll dig into the sort of but operational budgets of each of the
organizations and sort of proposed changes in a future slide. Um, number eight, community impact. Um, this is the category with the most ideological weight in our analysis. It's really complex to analyze the potential costs and benefits of a move that moving the
center to the homeless response system, moving the hub from downtown where it currently exists, not just because of the Haven, but because all all of the support networks that have grown up there um prior to the Haven's existence there. When the Haven opened in 2010, it
was because downtown was the hub for um where folks were receiving homeless services. Um soup kitchens, libraries, department of social services. Um that was the web 16 years ago and it's only sort of deepened and become more complex.
Um what is clear to all across all the stakeholder groups is that a move to Holiday Drive is not going to eliminate the visible presence of unhoused community members downtown. And so one of our questions is how do we continue to serve the folks who are downtown once Holiday Drive is the center of gravity?
And then the last um category in our decision matrix that received cautious support was in the missiondriven organizational identity. Um this was the most affirming feedback category for us to receive. Um all four stakeholder groups placed high value on the Haven's
existing organizational identity. Um our low barrier trauma-informed relational and family-like culture um was identified by all groups and all four groups are keen for us to retain this identity which again will take
intentional work. Next slide please. And this this final slide shows four areas of uh in which stakeholders express concern um meaning there were notable reservations or currently unresolved barriers. Um, I would note
that neither the none of the stakeholders nor our board found any of these barriers to be inherent or unresolvable, but each will require intentional and thoughtful work over the next several years to problem solve before Holiday Drive is open and operational.
So, um, number two, service accessibility. Um, the location of the building on Holiday Drive sits within the triangle bounded by 250 Hydraulic Road and EMTT Street. Uh the area is not pedestrian friendly and not not reliably served by transit
and is about two and a half miles from the current downtown hub of homeless services. Next category, proximity. Um proximity is not simply a question of distance. It's a question of whether the Haven can relocate without significantly
disrupting that ecosystem of services, relationships, and community that's formed around our downtown location over uh 16 years. Um number five, missiondriven trauma-informed decision process. So this is about like the process within
which sort of the holiday drive development, planning and execution is is happening. Um and the big question here that will continue throughout the process is care being taken with community engagement at each critical decision point. Uh and then the last category that
stakeholders express concern about is safety. There are two distinct uh dimensions to this criteria. Physical safety, road conditions, pedestrian infrastructure, um and interpersonal safety. Um stakeholders were primarily concerned with the first dimension, the
physical safety, um and and what that busy and currently pedestrian challenging area could mean for folks who are primarily on foot, on bike, and using public transportation. Um but both aspects are going to require
explicit and intentional planning. >> All right. So based on this rigorous analysis um of our stakeholder feedback, I'm happy to share with all of you that last night the Havens board has approved a resolution that endorses the Haven's participation in and commitment to the
housing oriented low barrier overnight shelter at 2000 Holiday Drive to create a housing hub for our neighbors experiencing homelessness. We know there's a lot of work to do to address these are the areas of caution and concern especially between now and when holiday drive is open oper open and
operational and we're eager to dig into that work. All right, I'm going to segue from here into our next set of slides um which is transportation. Um this really came to the surface throughout our stakeholder
feedback as like the the um critical piece to ensure success of this project. No stakeholder group expressed confidence that this project could succeed without a dedicated, reliable and frequent shuttle service. Um and the the transportation actually,
you know, touches on and influences three of the nine decision criteria. Service accessibility, safety, and proximity. the disruption to the the ecosystem. So in regards to proximity um this is a map showing sort of what what are the current this is a limited number
of the resources organizations that people experiencing homelessness in our community are accessing on on a regular basis. Um and notice that they are all you know clustered around downtown and and radiating out from there. um um the
the library, the soup kitchens, DSS, CRA, um the crossings and other informal support networks are also deeply embedded and aren't on this map. Uh next slide, please. So, um the low barrier shelter group in,
you know, doing some initial problem solving around this um identified a designated shuttle as the the best solution to this transportation issue. Um the proposed bus route would run from Holiday Drive um you know in in some
configuration to UVA Medical Center um to a downtown drop off point um you if we were building it right now we have a lot of folks who are traveling downtown from Freebridge there would be a stop there and then one on Pantops at the DMV and Social Security
Administration which is our very frequently visited sites. Um the shuttle would then potentially come back down I64 with the drop of the Almor County office building. A number of our folks are, you know, receive services through the um Al County's office of housing as
well as social services and then back up Fifth Street maybe another stop downtown and then back to Holiday Drive. Next slide. Um so we here are the proposed shuttle service details. um shuttle bus running a regular loop on
the the previous slide 364 days a year 10 hours a day. So starting at 7 am running running running that route until about 1 with a break in the afternoon and then resuming from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. to ensure that folks can make it back to the overnight shelter.
Um we we did some very rough initial pricing with Ja um who estimated that uh it would cost them $411,000 to run that shuttle service annually. 47 of 47% of that is personnel. 40% is the capital
equipment and 13% is other operating costs. Um we're aware that Ja is probably the most expensive. This is a high estimate and we're confident that if we can continue to problem solve this, we can find creative ways to bring that price down. But um but the um the
transport continuing to budget for the transportation piece is going to be um significant and has to be factored into all future budgeting work. Next slide. All right. So I'll talk about the operating plan. Next slide please.
um quickly we're going to need some kind ofou or memorandums of understanding amongst all the agencies considering we are all coll-locating under one roof for the first time in a number of years. Um, for those who don't know the history, the Haven, Patchchum, and Brack all used to exist under uh 112 West Market
Street, and we've Patcham and Brack have since moved to our own offices since, but um yes, when we move to 2000 Holiday Drive, these are the proposed partnerships that will be in place. We'll need to figure out the the hierarchy and the structure. Um but we do anticipate the city of Charlottville
being the building owner. Uh Brack will continue to be the continuum of care lead agency. The Haven will run day shelter operations and Pcham will run night shel overnight shelter operations. Next slide please. So this chart is a breakdown of what a
each agency is responsible for. Um B as the lead agency will continue to do coordination across the region. Um just in terms of how we interact with different partners not only in the city but across Albamar, Fluana, Green, Louisa and Nelson that is our entire catchment area. Uh we provide
educational resources, COC, our continuum of care, professional development, training opportunities. We have one street outreach worker. Um we do data collection and reporting and make sure that that is consistent across the whole COC. And we provide grant management as well. The Haven and um in
its day shelter capacity will be responsible for day shelter management. So those general respbit services, breakfast, showers, laundry, um operating from 8 to 5, uh offering breakfast, housing program administration as they currently do with expanded capacity for rental assistance
as we see the increase in the number of clients we're hoping to serve, housing stabilization, case management, and uh hopefully transitioning all of the current existing services that are on site at 112 West Market to 2000 Holiday Drive. uh Pocham and its overnight shelter
responsibilities will continue their overnight shelter management operating either 16 hours a day or or 24 hours a day. We're still figuring out that that model serving dinner as they currently do in the different congregations that they work in. Um has offering housing oriented case management to every
client. Um they do currently have a transitional housing program for women that they would like to continue and they will also continue bringing in volunteers on site from uh the faith-based entities that are currently working with Pochum in their current model. Next slide please.
So this chart is breaking down the staffing structure. Um on the the left is the the type of position that we currently have or hope to have. Um and then the second column is existing staffing structure within uh the three organizations. The third column is the
proposed staffing structure and then the ratio of clients to staff members. And so currently for housing shelter navigation uh we have a halftime uh employee at the Haven and two and a half case managers for PCH who are working specifically with housing navigation within the shelter system. They're
proposing six atom. Um that would be a rough ratio of 13 clients to one staff member. And I should add the caveat that this is based on best practices across the country. So we are hoping to serve no more than 20 people per 20 clients per staff member because that is best
practices. Um housing stability case managers. Currently we have two existing at the Haven. We hope to increase that to four uh with 15 clients per case load. Housing or rental subsidy program admin. We hope we currently have one full-time employee at the Haven. hope to
increase that to two with uh 15 community members per month. So, not necessarily people who are staying in the shelter, but some who are coming in um who need some type of rental assistance, maybe through prevention or the Laura DAP Haven housing fund. So, people who aren't necessarily experiencing homelessness, but do need some type of housing assistance to
remain stabilized. Um and then outreach, we have one B outreach coordinator. Uh we hope to increase that to three once we move to Holiday Drive. and the Haven will hope to to have one um serving no more than 20 clients per staff member. Next slide, please.
>> So now I'll turn it over to Cameron Moore to discuss the proposed operating budget for Poncho. >> Thank you all so much for your time. So I want to do a deep dive in terms of the numbers. Uh Patchum has had an opportunity, the board has had an opportunity uh to weigh this option
first for the Cherry Avenue site and now for 2000 Holiday Drive. a lot of the quote unquote uh problems that the board has has been resolved in terms of having a kitchen programmatic control and you know in terms of you know the betting structure and so right now the only
obstacle that stands in the way in terms of patchum is of course the almighty dollar so there's some numbers here I want to talk about these in terms of salaries this is what we've been doing currently this year in terms of our current staffing model we have changed our shelter model to ensure that there
is a good staff to guest ratio. Um, I want you to kind of think of this in terms of a classroom. Uh, everyone wants their child to have a good teacher to student ratio. Uh, this is us being able to respond to the needs of 35 men and 15 women in terms of the current shelter
model. And then in terms of our supplies, this is what we're spending now. Uh in terms of being able to give folks the accuchants to make sure this does not uh feel institutionalized, the over-the-counter things like Tylenol, earbuds, you know, coffee and and such and snacks and things to make sure that
they are um that they are well taken care of. And then you'll see this number of about $127,000 in kind in terms of our meals. So with us operating from the beginning of November to about April 20th, uh we are absolutely blessed to have a bunch of
churches and faith-based entities be able to cover those meals. Uh which is not a cost to Patchchum. Now to go back from the top in terms of this number right here, uh again this is us or this is PCHM having a full staffing model. Uh
middle management, uh communications, supplies coordinating, you name it. This is what will allow us to be able to help you all get the best return on investment which is Holiday Drive. Uh essentially now we are doing our best in the winter to uh quote unquote warehouse
humans. Uh we want to turn Holiday Drive to the best degree possible into a housing machine. How can we be able to get people in and how can we uh ensure that we are having a realistic goal of getting people out in terms of uh stable and affordable housing. Uh, in terms of
supplies, this $312,000 equates to about $10.65 per night in terms of having clients there at the shelter. And then meals. Um, now I kept these two things in here because uh while we are um extremely hopeful to get
a lot of these things donated to us in kind, I think it's a good educational opportunity to think about what the community has already been offsetting for us in our current model. Uh and in terms of this number, we currently have about 24 congregations in our current shelter schedule model offsetting meals
for us. That means there still going to be a six-month gap. And so we have to be strategic about thinking about how we can be able to ask churches to potentially do a month of meals or potentially asking them to, you know, pick uh sections or sessions rather in terms of the um of the session. So you
look at these differences, most organizations think that a 10 to 12% increase in their operating budget is ambitious at best. To do this is obviously much more than 10 to 12%. In total, this is a 293% increase in terms of our current
operating budget this fiscal year to what we would need to be able to do that considering that again I want to make sure that I say this is an earnest approximation. Uh, so the number could go up, the number could go down. But the reason that this 293% increase is here is because what we've been asked to do
by our partners and we're hoping to be able to meet the meet the need. This is a 50% increase in terms of service. This is a 60% increase in terms of clientele. And this is a 243% in terms of nights offered to the
community. And so in order to do this and in order for us to be able to meet this need, we're going to be able to need significant support from our community or we won't be able to meet the uh to meet the request or the challenge that's been given to us uh by the community.
>> You can go to the next slide and I will hand it off to BR. >> Thank you, Cameron. All right, so Brack's uh estimated operating budget is just a proposal. Um the salary increase is mainly if we receive two additional outreach case workers. Um currently we have one she is stretched thin uh and is
covering an entire catchment area of one city and five counties. So we are hoping to increase that uh the number of outreach workers we have. So all of the operational expenses and salaries are tied into outreach. Turn it over to Owen. Ours is pretty basic.
>> Next slide. Um okay. So we've got the Haven's current operating budget over here. Um and proposed budget here on the salaries line, $310,000 includes uh that additional outreach position, one
additional housing program administrator for rental assistance programs, and two additional housing stabilization case managers. To Cameron's point, we want Holiday Drive to be a place where folks a housing machine where folks are coming in and are quickly being rehoused. Um
not a place where folks are getting stuck. Um, to that end, we need staff to support that and and we need we need rental assistance to be able to provide the security deposit, first month's rent for folks. The majority of the folks we serve, they have hit an they have they're working, they have income, they
just need a little boost to get back into housing. Um, some of the some of the folks we serve are chronically homeless, have more complicated needs, and and so these rental subsidies uh include longer six-month or 12-month uh subsidies to really help someone
stabilize in their housing. Um, other program expenses. Um, these are primarily day shelter and food program expenses. We do anticipate serving more folks at Holiday Drive. Um, so we, you know, are budgeting a a $25,000 about a
50% increase in program expenses. Um, other operational expenses, we're currently holding steady, but we do think there are, you know, places to where there would be cost savings in moving to Holiday Drive, but um, and we look forward to digging into what those
could look like um, in the future. Next slide. So this is the estimated overall operating budget for all three agencies just on a single chart. So you can see uh what the cost difference is. Next slide please. And as I mentioned
again we are covering our entire catchment area is a regional investment. You're not expecting Charlottesville to foot the entire bill for all of this. Um so we're working with our partners um in you know uh Green County, Albamar, Louisa, Flana, Nelson just to make sure that they are on board with this and uh
it will be continuing conversations. Next slide please. And next slide. Next we're going to talk about potential near-term uses for the site or interim uses. Um designated camping site that has come up a lot in conversations with our ex our stakeholders, our clients
that we're serving. Um this would require a lot of planning. So I just want to let you all know that we have discussed this in our group. We are not there yet with making a decision and that would obviously uh involve a number of stakeholders who need to be involved in the decision-making process for that in terms of establishing policies,
infrastructure, u making sure the site is safe. We have enough people to manage that as a designated campground, but it is a topic of conversation that's come up in our meetings. Um temporary or emergency overnight shelter. This is contingent on building code official approval and review. Um this came up to
the surface for us during the January ice storm that we had. Um the Haven Patcham and Brack were working together to and Care Bears and a number of organizations were working to put um those who are unhoused into emergency hotels. Um and so that was quite a lift
for our COC to do that unexpectedly, but we had to make sure people were not dying in the cold. Um, and so if we could have Holiday Drive as an existing building to to shelter people in emergency situations like that, it would be great. But again, that is contingent on building code official approval. Um,
for now, we also are thinking about business occupancies. Can certain office spaces move into there now? Um, could we use some of the space for meeting spaces? Um, or also provide training and skill development for some of the clients that we serve. So, these are all things that we're we're thinking about.
We haven't been able to flesh any of these out uh in more detail, but they are top of mind for us. Next slide, please. Uh next slide. So, proposed next steps, and I'll turn this over to Erin. So, again, this diagram is showing that uh
phase one and phase two that are now uh compressed here in blue and yellow. Um we've completed those. We are here at the red star um proposing to you tonight. Um and what we expect in front of us is that there might be a phase
three that involves uh working through aligning uh operating plans and policies and procedures and communications and community engagement plans, fundraising and so forth. Um and while that is happening that the city could pursue uh
the procurement path that best suits the ability to get this project done and that simultaneously there would be a community engagement phase um that continues to involve primarily the stakeholders but also um adjacent business owners to the site uh the
broader community at large um in the process and helps them understand what's going on. Eventually we would once procurement happens we would be able to move into entitlements in the AE design phase. Um AE being architecture and engineering design phase where things
are fully fleshed out through the process traditional process of going through schematic design development and construction documents. Um simultaneously we'll have to work through the development plan and site plan approvals for the city of Charlottesville. Um and then and that is
estimated to take 12 to 18 months primarily because of the uh process through the city the site plan process. Um and then it could move into construction which is also estimated at 12 months uh before we would finally reach occupancy.
>> Next slide. >> All right. So proposed phase three scope um definitely want to focus on aligning and refining the current existing policies and procedures that we already have in place. We've talked about folks with pets um couples um determining
length of stay. So there's a number of programmatic elements that we need to discuss in phase three. Um we do have some outstanding program discussions about lunch. Currently folks who are unhoused will go to the different soup kitchens around the downtown area. Do we have transportation in place for that or
how how is that going to exist? Um the designated camping and other interim uses for the space as it currently stands. Um we do plan a big community engagement and communications process. Um how do we work with the businesses that are on holiday drive? How do we uh
engage with continued staff and um talking with the folks who are experiencing homelessness and using these services to make sure that we're bringing the best our best foot forward in terms of the the shelter design that we're proposing for them. So, lots to work through, but these are some of the things that we hope to take in phase
three of this project. Next slide, please. And now we open the floor for questions, comments, and discussion. >> Wow, that was a lot. Thank you all so much for your just the detail analysis. You're right, Sunshine. Many of the
questions I had you um they were answered through u the process, but I'm sure there are plenty more. So, um um we're going to just kind of go down as as questions. Um and um unfortunately I have to leave it like 5:35, so I might
do mines earlier, but um you want to go first. >> Um uh yeah. Yeah, I'll start. Um, so the and maybe you mentioned this the if you
if we can go back to um one of the the first phases where you showed the the the reds of the expansion >> slide nine or 21. >> Yeah, >> you type it in, it'll probably jump there.
Maybe not. You went too far the other way. >> Yeah, that was good. So um and and again maybe you said this in but in phase in option one I'm sorry option one or option two how many because I mean the the cost is really
probably for all three is about the same by time you looking at probably about $10 million but how how many beds do you get with option one and option two? >> Can you go forward one slide?
um 108 to 113. Now that would be slightly different I think because we were including uh medical respit beds um which at the time
we've worked we've worked through ex what that might mean medical respit beds um and we we didn't know everything about them at the time we proposed um option one and option two in the fall and we've talked more with UVA health about what that might mean for op um
since then and it would probably, you know, so that might be cut out of the the first two options. Um so um because I'm looking at the big picture like we on any given night 220
230 persons don't have a reliable place to to lay their head and I know a lot of them now may be staying with family or friends but it's not reliable and that's why we need the Salvation Army's um
center of hope as well. Um, but I'm trying to see what the most bang we can get for our bucks. So, if we as a community going to lean into this with, you know, already got six and a half million, you
know, figure another um 10 or so, if we're going to lean into this to 15 or 20 million, we need to get as many beds as we can out of it. you know, w with um within the right
environment that y'all has has has set up. So, um I'm just thinking out loud. So, um, when you were talking about the the cost and getting
taking a regional approach, um, to this and you're talking to the the neighbors, is this presentation only being given to the city of Charlottesville at this point? >> So far, yes. And if we move the forward and you know
was this you know you know are y'all looking to also upgrade your fundraising efforts as well like for the different organizations to to help with this as well. >> Yeah I can speak for B. We are actually in the process of interviewing for a
grants and data manager and so we hope to have that person start looking for securing new funding opportunities. Um, I can say with certainty it won't pay for all of this. But, um, I I know uh, Cameron and Pochum are also looking into hiring for somebody to do philanthropy
work, but I won't speak on what do >> Yeah, I I'll just share um, currently we have contracted with the development associate to help us uh, have a formalized development plan. Patchum has never had one because it is not needed to have one. uh but you know
specifically in terms of the numbers uh specifically for patchchum there is the desire and effort to become self-sufficient to be self-standing um and not be so uh reliant in terms of this beginning iteration of this project. Uh so but obviously that's going to take time and it's going to
take the person to be able to um have some time uh to be able to kind of learn the lay of the land if they're not necessarily local and do that. But it is the plan that you have to create that formalized plan um in the uh draft budget in terms of having uh professionalized folks to do that work.
So, um I noticed that you all said you all talk with um Harrison Bird and um >> Richmond >> Richmond Katas. Um have you talked to Rock? I just happened the mayor was happened to be in town last week for the book festival and they have like a 250
bed um shelter that's all um you know he said that you know the city may give a minimum cost but it's all privately done. I'm not sure. We didn't get into the detail of like how that's done. Was
that another one that y'all looked at? >> No, we didn't. >> That'll be a great next trip though. >> Yeah, >> I know we've been talking about they have some good some a lot of things down there that we might want to try to do a road trip down there to see.
>> Um Um but and I know Roman, you also went there. Can are you able to chime in on that a a little bit >> in terms of >> the their shelter? >> Yeah. >> I think it would be very beneficial for
maybe some interaction between the two >> and uh certainly I can make introductions to make that happen. >> Agreed. Thank you. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Um that's all I have right now. Jen, I'll start with you. >> Can I actually ask a quick point of clarification before we ask more questions just to make sure we all are
>> understanding anything. The the initial price I know it's loose. I know it's estimated for phase 1 phase 2 versions was that 9.9ish number which was created back in November. And then the price for the new option was that 8.6 which was
created recently. But that phase 1 phase 2 weren't repriced when phase three was repric was priced. That's correct. So phase one might actually escalate based on market current market conditions for November to now. >> Yes. So the the it's still a little bit
apples to oranges for what those prices would cost since they were not costed at the same time. >> Sure. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And that that's one other question. So if I understood you correctly, you said 12 to 18 months of city >> entitlement process site plan
>> the grand tape. Okay. >> Okay. That sound >> and then another 12 months or 12 to 14 months I think >> renovation >> to to actually do the work. >> Correct. >> Um Jen, do you have anything right now?
>> Uh I have so many questions. Maybe I should go less. So maybe some of them will be answered. Lord, do you you are you >> Well, I'm I'm trying to figure out uh it's sort of consistent with the question that mayor was asking.
As I do the math, if we're looking at getting 80 beds for 8.6 million, uh that's roughly $110,000 per bed. If we're looking at 100 an additional 28 beds for additional 1.2 2
million. That works out to a marginal cost of $54,000 a bed. Uh it roughly half of the marginal cost of uh of the other of the first 80. It would seem to me
that it might be worthwhile again following up on what he'd suggest is to to shoot for the the larger number. I guess the question is if we if we were to do either option one or option two and take
that larger number, would that also allow for doing the you said there three or four or five different programs that weren't able to be fit in? Would those be able to be fit into an option one or two?
>> Yes, I'm I'm pretty certain they would fit >> um into option one or option two that we did in phase one. Can you get those back? >> Would there be a significant difference in operational cost if you were serving
80 80 beds versus serving 108 beds? >> There would there would be an increase to make sure that the ratio still stays the same in terms of case management and shelter staff and shelter. >> Would it be would it be proportional?
>> It would to the current model. as much of what the current proposed model say >> not having the numbers in front of me I don't I don't have the ability to to ask more detailed questions about that but I guess the question I mean one of the broader questions aside from the the
capital cost is whether this is this whole thing is going to be sustainable uh on an ongoing basis I remember seeing estimates of if I remember the the page came through somewhere around three or4
million dollars a year expected. Where would that money be expected to come from? It's >> a great question. We don't know. We're hoping to talk with other localities, governments, just like we're presenting to you all today. This is not the last
conversation we're going to have with local government about this, but we will be relying on a number of different funding streams to fund this. >> I mean, as it is right now, I don't know where you all get your money. So, I don't know whether those sources
are expandable or or or whether you're going to end up saying, "Oh, jeep. We're going to have to ask the city for that $3 million." Uh, the other question I would have is what would be the plan for Potchum with the existing space at 112
West Market. >> The Haven, >> I'm sorry, the Haven. Yeah. >> Could you ask that question again? Because I thought I was going with Pa. >> Okay. What are you going to do with 112 West Market if you boot? >> Um, yeah, we we are working through the
the plan for that transition. Um, and we're just at the beginning phases of that. So, we'll look forward to sharing the the details of that with the public as we fill them out more. I mean is it is it your sense that that would be a
second site for you or that you would >> No, that that would not be a sustainable operating model for us. But but we are hoping to have a transitional period where we can assess the impact of the move on the downtown ecosystem, retain some footprint of the day shelter. Um
but but like we you know if Holiday Drive becomes the new center of gravity then some other entity will need to move into 112 West >> and would that likely I'm probably way way too far away from
making a decision on this. But if you were to turn around and sell that to somebody else to use that would be a large chunk of capital that could go into this project. >> We don't own the building. That's true.
Thank you, Natalie. Yeah. >> Um, thanks. I took some notes as we were going along. Um, so backing up a little bit to the the beds layout.
The idea that this is a lowberry shelter is for individuals. This is not families, couples, or if it's couples, they would need to switch or if it's a parent with a child, they would be redirected elsewhere. >> Correct. This is a shelter for single
adult individuals. >> Um, thank you. the um so the blank space for the clinic in this presentation I you know there's initially the blank because it's not part of the the cost estimate at the moment but of course
thanks for the detailed um fit plan. Why what is the holdup of including it at the moment? Is UVA not part of the conversations yet or the what's the kind of limiting factor for why it's separated out like that?
>> Not putting the cost on the city um I think is primarily it or or the entities that would come together to fund the project um and trying to reduce the construction cost. I think it would be a I can speak for
everyone having um helped in this process that it would be ideal that it happens at the exact same time um as a futurebased uh fit out but that it actually gets funded um now and that it gets integrated and built at the same time as
the rest of the project. >> And is is UVA part of these discussions yet? We have talked to the clinical staff that currently operates the um clinic at the Haven to help understand what the space needs are, but we have not talked
to um executives that would make the decision about um funding and supporting the clinic. >> Okay. >> There are other members of the low barrier shelter working group who have identified who those folks would be if we get to that stage. But again, this
is, you know, that's a great phase three uh activity for sure. >> I'll add that that is also an addition and the request that was made by me was to not have an addition. So, there's a reason or the basis for that addition to not be in because the request that I
made back to the group was to focus on the existing 27,000 square feet, but because they also recognized that it was a tinier addition, they went ahead and did that work. So, we appreciate that, too. >> Okay. Yes. Thank you. Um, no, I it's good to see the options. I was just
wondering if like if UVA was holding out and we were hoping that they were going to change their mind or if they hadn't been involved yet or like where it was. >> Not been engaged, but they are definitely on the >> Okay, great. That's good to hear. And hopefully
everybody plays ball. um the uh front landscaping situation with the proposed bus shelter. There's also the extensive ramp addition to use the main entrance as the main entrance. But is it not accessible already from the parking lot
on the left side? >> Um no, it does not meet current accessibility requirements. Uh there would need to be curb cuts, ramps. Um there's threshold changes that are problematic. In total, there's accessibility that needs to be addressed
at this existing building. >> Okay. Yeah, I haven't walked there to know, but in the photo, it just looks like it kind of extends pretty flatly to the lefthand parking lot. >> Um there are maximum percentages that have to be met to meet the accessibility code. And that's um
you know, will be uh critiqued very closely in the process of getting a building permit site plan approved. >> Got it. Okay. Thanks. Um I notice you keep looking over there for site plate approval. Um okay for the what's not included the
offices, workstation, small conference rooms. Um those are for Can you talk a little bit more about what those are for? Who's sitting at them? What are they being used for? Are they existing staff who would have to be rotated? Are these for the additional
staff? Like what is the needs for those additional spaces? the people that aren't current the three offices and five workstations that aren't currently included in the project. >> Yes. What would those be used for? Should they be included in a version of the project? >> They would they're primarily would have
been patchum um case managers and and staff um that didn't fit on the second floor. But um to to figure out how to accommodate them, I think during phase three, we would look at how many desks could be, you know, hot desks like where
people swap um using them, whether there's, you know, schedules that allow people in the space hours um to try and accommodate those people. So, we haven't gotten that far. How do how do we work
through the eight stations that are not in the plans? And if we got more bed space, would we also need more office? Would those needs also increase?
Um and then um for the transportation plan um the I recognize that you chatted with John about a dedicated route. Um, would the idea be that it's
only for shelter users and not for the general public? >> That is a a detail that we would definitely need to flesh out. We haven't gotten that granular on what the shuttle service would >> Okay. >> but it would be designated for folks
access who were accessing Holiday Drive. >> And how does it overlap? You just mentioned it wasn't that granular, but it is a big ask. So, how does it overlap with current bus routes? >> Yeah, it's a great question. Is that still in the appendex? >> Yes. Uh, is it possible to go to page 61 in the appendex of the slideshow?
>> I excluded it from the presentation. Ah, great. Um, you remember how how so presented on this in the past. He's really good on it. Maybe we can tag him. >> Yeah. But I'll I'll start by saying so there is a a southbound bus route. Is it
is it >> seven? >> Seven. Okay. and eight maybe >> um to get if someone's going back downtown, they need to walk down Holiday Drive to Em EMTT, cross EMTT, and then walk to down to Batteries Plus, which is
like a um 3/4 of a mile. >> Um and that's the nearest bus stop going south currently. >> And there's a lack of accessible sidewalks the entire length to that bus stop location.
There's a lack of sidewalk, let alone accessible sidewalks. >> And if someone wants to pick up the northbound bus, that's closer. You have to still walk to the end of Holiday Drive to EMTT Street. I think it's in front of the hotels there, but then it goes north and it it winds up back at
that bus stop like 30 minutes later. >> Okay. Um, so that's the pickup and drop off, but then for This is >> We can talk about this. >> So if the bus were rerouted down Holiday Drive, there's no turnaround spot. It's
a >> Sure. Sure. Sure. I'm thinking about kind of like getting to the DMV and all the other sites. >> Sure. So that would be getting downtown as the transportation hub and then taking another bus to um you know any of the other sites that someone was trying to access?
>> Uh I don't know off the top of my head. Are all of those sites currently on bus routes? Social Security. >> Um, there's a close enough bus stop to social. >> Um, and then
>> I like the mayor. I have some thoughts out loud, but I'll wait for other questions. >> I do have one response to um, councelor Snook's question about the fundraising. Um, and you know, something that we've touched on, Sunshine touched on a little bit at the beginning is that, you know,
we're currently three disparate organizations that are working with very similar clientele. Um, and we're working informally in collaboration, but we don't have a strong overarching narrative about how we're solving homelessness in Charlottesville. We're currently a very reactive system. And
the thing again that's most exciting about this project is that it gives our three organizations an opportunity to come together and create a strong narrative about what we're doing to solve homelessness in Charlottesville. And there's tremendous appetite and
enthusiasm among the general public for solutions, even if it's a short-term fix. When we were hoteling folks in January during the cold stretch of month, the the public support for that was overwhelming. we we raised 400% of what we asked for.
>> Um so there's great appetite for a strong plan that's really well communicated to the public and I think that could potentially open up philanthropic you know both big donors but but all of I mean the majority of donations we got for the hoteling
project were average like $75 and we raised $150,000. Well, and to build on on that thought, the you one of my big gripes about Charlottesville is both a bragging point and a gripe. The bragging
point is that Charlottesville has such a an overwhelming sense of public spirit that we create all these nonprofits. We have more nonprofits per capita in Charlottesville than any place in the state. And the downside is we end up splitting everybody's efforts. And the
the some of the organizations that have done the best work in the last 20 years are organizations that have come together like the Pedmont Housing Alliance for example. 40 years ago it was three or four organizations that came together and said we if if we come
together we can have a first class executive director, a first class finance director, first class development person and so on. Uh, Ready Kids is another organization like that that is actually there's I at one point about 15 different organizations and they all came together and I really
encourage anything that results in that sort of effort among among those of you all who are working in the same space so that we get the sense of you know a a coherent approach to sort of the ecosystem.
Yeah, I will say that that topic of conversation has bubbled up quite a bit during this process. Um, we are not at that the phase where we can discuss those things right now in detail. Um, but it's definitely something that we have talked about amongst our boards and uh, you know, various staff members. We
know that that's an interest for the community, but we just didn't want to prolong this process any further, but they will be continuing conversations. >> Good. Thank you. Um, and I just wanted to I know I said another thing, but I just wanted to acknowledge that, you know, we have regional partners in the in the room
tonight. And I think that's going to have to be part of this solution as well. Um, and I'm glad that the city has, I think, become much better about working with the county as a partner. Um, and I just appreciate wanted to call out that they're that they're here tonight. And I wonder going forward if
you know it makes sense to have or at least explore if out mall is interested in you know having a seat at the table as part of this working group and process. >> Uh we do have Anthony Haro on the working group. He works with Alamar County Office of Housing. >> Great.
>> And Alar County mouthpiece. Uh we are also trying to get other leadership from the county involved as well. >> Um please go ahead. But um but yeah, I mean there's there's a whole lot there. Um I appreciate the the presentation as
well as you know, I know several years ago the level of um collaboration between both nonprofits but also between the organizations working in, you know, this space and the city, I think, is a lot worse than where we are today. So, I
think I just I know there's just been an incredible amount of work that's gone into this to get us to this point and a huge change and I think you know how the city approaches organizations and organizations approach each other and um I know there's still a very very long
way to go. Um but it is you know it's very heartening to see that we've gotten here which I don't think there was any guarantee of you know four or five years ago certainly um a few
question well one and one of thought that came up from something earlier is I do think depending on how this progresses I think the granted you all don't own the building of the haven so there's not a whole lot of direct control but I do think it's it's going to remain an important community
resource course and I think even if a lot of services shift to Holiday Drive, the reality is is people are going to continue to go to the area of the downtown mall because it's what people are. People who are not homeless go to the downtown mall. And if we expect people to not be at the downtown mall
who don't have housing, we're expecting to not be people who go where other people are. And that's simply not going to happen. And so I do think there's going to continue to be that that reality and um the importance of having you know a community resource there and you've got the library there which is
one of our few free public spaces that is always going to be a place where you know people are naturally going to go. Um so I hope we don't just abandon the idea of the haven being a resource the building itself. I don't think this if this was successful I don't think that
therefore means just you sell it to whoever. But I know you all don't have direct control over that. Um with the transportation piece is um hat yet part of these conversations
or Yeah. >> Um and it sounds like the conversations you've had with John were kind of relatively preliminary so far. >> Super preliminary. That would not be the solution. I can probably say outright.
That's really just to say like what's the most expensive cost of running a shuttle. I'm sure we can figure out a way to solve that that's significantly cheaper. >> And I'm pretty sure we are trying to add a southbound bus stop closer. >> We are. >> Yeah,
>> that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Just I mean you're going to need to be redundant transportation options to but so improving the bus system. Great. >> Oh no, you did. Um, and you kind of just
touched on this, but you know, it could be $4 to5 million of additional operational costs. I think if you factor in inflation and cost increases between now and you know, people may begin to be hired. That is a lot for the city to take on if
you assume the city takes on all of that cost. I think not to undermine how difficult the capital side can be, but you know, operational costs I think are going to be more challenging for the city just because it's baked in year-toear obviously. Um maybe that can
be split in part, you know, is the city and and county both being partners and funding it a bit, but um what among the new staff hires would you see an opportunity to hire additional staff doing development and fundraising
work? um as well as um is there yet a plan or conversation about coordinating your development teams? Because you just touched on this, but I know we're a community with a lot of millionaires, even a few billionaires, and I think this would be a very compelling capital
campaign and a lot of people would want to donate. Um but so I don't I don't know if that's a coherent question. >> It is. Makes sense. Yeah, we've definitely talked about the potential for us to all share like a a fundraising and communications person. So, I think
that will be more fleshed out in phase three of this work, but we we've definitely started those conversations >> and we we clearly didn't make it as transparent that this is not an ask of the city, right? This is a regional
housing hub. Um the city purchased the building. So the city is taking lead on the development of it. But we I mean we have existing funding relationships with Alberall County that you know would would need to be expanded as well if if
um as well as the surrounding counties which we currently don't have funding relationships with. But um this is not an ask of the city but the city is taking point on this because the city purchased the building. Um but 100% this we envision this to be our regional partnership. Um and yeah I
mean we have a strong fundraising sort of model and team and both and brack are building out in the process of building out their um their development teams. So yeah I think there's a lot of potential but we're
capacity is expanding as we speak. >> Definitely. Um, and with your current proposal, which is focused on renovation of the existing building as opposed to any additions, if we're thinking kind of longer term on a 10
plus year time horizon, are you seeing does that provide any advantage in terms of making it easier down the road to build in addition if there's a need to significantly increase bed capacity? Um,
I don't know if that makes sense. Is there kind of any advantages from starting at renovating the existing building as opposed to just start with an add-on? >> Yes. If we do not put a footprint in the um vacant parcel that is to the east of the existing building right now, that
actually gives the advantage to expand capacity in the future and put an addition there. And whether that addition happens to be um bringing back medical rest bits um or it is both that and expanding capacity of the overnight shelter or
expanding capacity of the the day shelter. Um the options are there and the current design has already allowed for where that connection might be made. Um where there would be minimum minimal renovation to the existing
um proposed plan to allow a future addition to tackle onto this. >> That's no that that's helpful because I'm thinking you know 10 15 years maybe shorter than that. um you know there'll probably be a need for a significant
expansion in order to achieve everything that our community is going to need. Um so right now your current proposal will be looking about 80 beds. Um
what would that look like in terms of um would you expect that to be 100% utilized? like how many beds would you need in order to kind of have the utilization rate of people in the the overnight shelter matching kind of the demand that's out there recognizing that
there are some folks who maybe on a particular night or never their choice won't be to go to that overnight shelter but I don't know if that >> makes total sense I would tell you so for patchum low barrier shelter is how I define it is a high stakes transaction and the incentive is the cold weather
people are literally giving up the last bit of autonomy and agency they have to come into the shelter and they're making that transaction full warmth uh and of course you know a hot plate of dinner in this case because you know from what I've been told Patrick historically has opened earlier and has stayed open later
and the numbers have not necessarily met the the you know available bed in terms of the organizations residing there under one hub the new incentive will be the day shelter being there so it would be again this is just my my educated guess that there would be 100%
utilization because there are wraparound services there and it wouldn't just be in terms of that high stakes transaction from coming in from the >> coal. It would it would be interesting to see recognizing this may not be possible immediately and we may need to be
thinking about multiple phases. But if we were to kind of start at the point of you know if the number of of you know people who are unhoused is you know 200 to 250 a night and from starting there reverse engineering what would we need to build in order to have
the utilization rate be sustainable and cover everyone who would use those services. What would this project look like on site? Um, I would be recognizing again we may not be able to get there immediately, but um because especially if there's all that investment on the
staff side and in services, it's just not going to make a whole lot of sense to have this area and you know, we're going to still need, you know, let's say 80 additional lowbear shelter beds and then we end up looking at another site in order to meet that. Yeah, this is also happening in
conjunction with the Salvation Army Center of Hope expansion which is going to significantly expand the number of beds that they have. Um and and you know talking about that regional partnership and sort of the fundraising I mean >> there's no fundraising for all these projects without a unified narrative
that explains how each of these pieces of the puzzle is necessary. Um and so that's you know big expansion on the Salvation Army side, big expansion on PCum side. there are some individuals who will not go to congregate shelter who will choose to um you know sleep in
in in a tent. Um so again we're trying to plan for you know capacity for that. Um but but it is a really I mean it's part of that narrative that we need to tell about all of these projects. What is what's the demand for overnight
shelter and how do the Salvation Army's project and this project work together to um how much of that need is going to be met by like the current design? >> Yeah, because I get >> 569 unique individuals for serving >> Oh, yeah. Um yeah, Erin was pointing out
there there were 569 unique individuals who were served between Patcham and the Salvation Army in a one-year time frame. um including pajam six months roughly of opening. So um you know this this shelter will not meet the full need and we recognize that but we hope that it
can at least be a shelter and a haven for people who do need those beds right and and hopefully some of the people who are continuously unsheltered in different encampments can come to this facility. Yeah, because yeah, I mean obvious obviously the question which we just may not know the answer to is once
the Salvation Army hopefully completes um their project and this is completed, how many people are there going to be who would want to utilize this just can't because of capacity? And are we in a place where we
would expect that to largely meet the amount of people who would want to use it once both are completed or >> it depends on how how we're moving folks out into housing because if folks are getting stuck there then the backup is going to build because folks enter homelessness and they exit homelessness
every day. So we need to invest in the housing resources um the subsidies that we need to um bring someone back to housing and the case management support if we can make it a housing machine then we are folks are passing through beds are opening up um so
>> the bottleneck >> that's the exactly right we don't want to be a bottleneck >> and the bottleneck currently for your guess is the lack of permanent supportive housing units in our region or is there another >> no I I I mean our housing navigation someone to sit down with someone who has income and just needs to be matched with
a property management company or a landlord that's willing to work with them whatever their credit risk or um housing navigation is our biggest bottleneck right now. And so we've expand proposing expanding from 2.3 to six >> correct >> total
>> as part of this. Did you have something? I was going to also add Salvation Army um coming online but also the Vista 29 which is 80 additional per of housing beds and how
what if you don't mind me hijacking your question time what is the um coordination with them? Is there overlap in services? Is that part of the chant the the the pathway or is it a separate thing entirely? And how's that going to work? >> It's actually great timing for that
question. We actually just started talking in our most recent case conferencing meeting about who is document ready on our by name list uh to move into Vista 29. We expect those units to come online probably in December or January of next year. And so right now we're starting those
preparation conversations and we're kind of assigning clients to different people in the community um in terms of service providers and who has that best relationship. So we would really want to focus on who we can move into uh Vista 29. There are 42 units of the 80 who that will be earmarked for Alamar County
Office of Housing and those folks will come through the COC's uh priority list or preferences. Um so we get to decide you know who those 42 folks will be which is really helpful. >> And who decides the others? >> Um I think uh I'm not sure.
>> Not a lot of detail on the top of my head. Hi Anthony Housing with the county. Um they have some other units that are also vouchered through other sources. Um but there's also some just market rate people.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. To be >> Yeah. To be clear, it'll it'll follow the normal fair housing procedure. So applicants will come in either as as recommendations from agencies like B or others um or folks who just you know come in the door on their own. And at
that point it becomes uh generally speaking it just becomes fair housing. You meet the criteria you can pay the minimous rent and then you move in. >> Great. Okay. Thanks. >> Um and just final question for now. Um
obviously the city is a major um funer having purchased the building and you know will continue to play a role in um and like any development project is going to be a back and forth between the the city and you all as the city at this point beyond this meeting kind of looked
at the current proposal in terms of the building itself and been able to provide any feedback or like city perspective or is this meeting kind of the first space? to see what you all thought about it first >> that's what our plan will we'll begin to
have conversations internally with NDS and others >> because um yeah I mean I think those conversations are going to be you know just obviously important and as an iterative conversation I imagine I mean I would be curious to just hear like
city staff side of what their feedback is are there things that city staff is like oh this jumps out as like this won't work for that reason or this is an opportunity we Um, I would just be very curious to have that opportunity to hear staff specific um, kind of feedback and perspective.
Um, but um, >> they're ready and waiting. Can I also add to that that we haven't done a full zoning compliance um evaluation of this proposal to understand what challenges might be present against
the current uh zoning district and whether we would need to request uh modifications or special exceptions or whether there's another route through that entitlements process given the small addition >> and I don't want to be flippant but I I
would guess if there is a zone ing issue that that can be relatively easily resolved because that's going to ultimately be a city council vote and I just don't think there would be particularly difficult opposition there. But I mean, you know, it's unlikely. But
um but I know I think building code may get is where I think maybe it would get trickier. But um but I'm also just curious beyond those things just staff perspective overall. Um, and and I would definitely at least like to be able to to to to hear that because I think it will be
this will have to be kind of a back and forth conversation as it is with any development project and and and any you know project that city is a major funer in. But that's it for me. Thank you >> Jen. Thank you so much. I'm just kind of
so stoked that we are tackling this now and it's we're so ready to do this and I'm so glad you guys are too. So, it's great timing and thank you for the work you've done and for the great questions. Um, I have some process questions, some
operations questions, and then some future self questions, but I'll keep it quick. In the process, do we ask Santara if they want to run the clinic? >> I was just mentioning that today. Um, no, we have not had conversations with them yet, but we do plan to engage with them in the near future.
>> Um, they can sometimes be more nimble in that department. Um, and I think you mentioned this for phase three, but in the development till now, did was were any of the nearby businesses engaged in conversations on design?
Okay. But they will be in the next space. Okay. And then without I would just say that they were engaged by me specifically because I heard from them of course when they heard that we were buying the building. So we did have a
sitdown conversation with them to advise what the process was going to be. We have not gone back to them since this work has been done because I needed you to see what potentially could happen. But the intention was for me to go back to them and at least let them say whatever it is that they would like to
say about what they've heard and then they would have further engagement with this group directly because I'm sure they're going to have a lot of technical questions that I can't answer. >> Right. Thank you. Um, when you went to the other shelters, are any other other
are the other shelters do any of the other ones share three entities in one shelter? Are they any >> not in the way that we're proposing? Um, open doors in Harrisonenburgg has um one or lead organization that runs overnight
shelter. Essentially, Patchchum runs overnight shelter. There is no day shelter services. everyone leaves the building during the day. There are like their rapid rehousing provider has an office space. They so they subcontract from o open doors to provide rapid rehousing services on site. But that's
and there are a number of other they also have a health clinic. >> That's one sort of possible structure. >> I'm wondering about um who so this could be kind of new. We have like two entities running day and night. So, um, that's a lot of logistics
and I'm wondering who's the who is the >> executive director of holiday drive >> executive director of like if Pchum goes under and then there's no night thing like who's helping avoid those things etc.
>> I'm still figuring that out. Okay, but currently you know Brack has anou with city we subrant out our funding to patch him in the haven. We are proposing that as a potential model, but we're still figuring that out. That will be part of phase three, figuring out who does what,
who owns what. Fantastic. And then um do you know what the proportion of shared guests or clients are between you? >> At least 80%. >> Okay. Okay. That's now I'm done with process.
Thank you. Then um operationally will the I didn't see a place built in for PCHAM staff to stay overnight. Is that part of the footprint? >> So in terms of those workspaces that's what we talked about that there's not necessarily enough space for um
everything that we need. But I want to make sure I clarify your question. Are you saying in terms of like bedding for someone to sleep or to say? >> Uh yes. and especially knowing how it went with the ice storm, we couldn't get staff out and so they needed to stay overnight. >> So, in terms of of staffing, uh it's our
expectation that if you do have an overnight shift even now, that you stay awake throughout that shift. It's like a night shift. Um need people to stay awake. And so it would be their responsibility again to make sure that they are constantly not necessarily non-injuring in a negative sense, but they're keeping eyes open on what the
needs are, what may be uh what may be happening. In terms of uh for uh inclement weather, because there are uh uh hotels that are near, uh it is factored into the draft budget to make sure that there is appropriate rooming. Uh because space was so limited, it would it would be a tough ask to put in
bedding for staff to be able to do that. Uh but again in terms of partnership with them uh to be able to have funding to make sure that it's someone that needs to stay overnight that we're able to do that. >> Awesome. Um the for the um so PCOM would
no longer do the um current model of the shelter with faith-based organizations. >> Our plan or our hope is in terms of this project gets off is to make sure they are still coming in and volunteering. Uh so in the direct bunch there is a volunteer coordinator who will be
working with faith-based entities and make sure that they're still coming and to be able to you know sign up for sessions, provide meals, um whatever the case may be that they're currently doing. We just won't necessarily be in that space. >> Okay, great. So the and I saw the volunteers up but the and the piece
about the additional workflow of Hatch besides running the night shelter would be transitional housing. So there's kind of going to be two teams of Hatchim. >> Yes. So currently right now we do have a I can deem it as a pilot in terms of
transitional housing. Uh we have been um in terms of housing that we're using. It's two women right now uh based off the zoning. Uh our hope is is that to Owen's earlier point, everyone does not necessarily fit in the congregate model. And so we hope to be able to expand that
um so that the case managers have some leverage and some autonomy to be able based off their expertise to place people where they can throw out the vest and ultimately get them to work. >> Super. Yeah. So your work will be within the building of Holiday Drive and in the transactional housing space
>> in that currently right now that one property. >> Right. Okay. Great. Um okay. And then for a lot of this was answered fortunately. Um, do we know? So, it sounds like Vista 29 could be
online by January. If we took if phase three started tomorrow, what was our number for how our guesstimate for how many months or how many how long it would take to our >> was 12 with >> two to two and a half years between design and construction, but we do not
have an estimate for how long the procurement um phase in the middle that that kicks that off would take. Okay. if necessary. >> Um, and then transportation question. So, um,
I don't know that 400,000 is actually a big number for transportation. There have been years where UVA spent $500,000 on ADA transportation unbudgeted for. So, it's a it's it's that um ADA paratransit
that's pretty expensive to offer, which it sounds like we would need to do. It speaks back also to the um the shuttle is staying within Charlottesville, but we're talking about a regional effort. Does that shuttle need to go back out and in from the counties? Are we
serving? >> It's going up to Pandure County. I I mean the regional counties like Green, Louisa, Nelson. Yeah. Like are we mostly serving Charlottesville residents or or sorry Charlottville people or local? What's it look like? >> At the Haven we see folks who are coming
from all counties. >> Okay. >> They find their way in and then they the hub the service hub for all the counties is in Charlottesville. Um and so that's why we would love to get more of the counties on board with this. Um >> but but yeah, again, this is if we were
to start the shuttle right now. These are the locations that folks are the majority of folks are coming from. Um when the center moves and there's going to be a new constellation of transportation needs mostly think about the urban ring of Almor folks who are not accessing
services downtown are more likely to come I think to um the new the holiday drive location. Um but we're not looking at regional transportation like regularly going to Almyra or >> anything like that. Okay. I didn't know
but that had been asked of the quote that John gave to Okay. Um and then the I think the collaboration and the collective work is really the exciting piece the trying to get this
all together and get a plan for us that we can work not only physically out of this hub but like energetically all of you together. So that's pretty exciting. The um does the speaking of the hub and
the building itself, do we know if this design would meet the new s sustainability building requirements? >> High performance building stuff. >> High performance building standard. I don't know that it would apply to this
building. Okay. as we've as we've developed that. Okay. Um and would last question. Pause. the outreach, the expansion of the outreach is um is that outreach can continue to be
broad on um Riverside outreach, mall outreach. And so is that work will um it's not changing its mission. It's not trying to get everyone into Holiday Driver or Vista 29. It's just getting more people to do the work. It's it's expanding. Yeah, it's not expanding the
scope. Okay, great. Thank you. That's it. Thank you. That's it. >> Any other follow-up questions after Jen? Um, this is not a public hearing, so we're not open to public comments at the moment, but please feel free to send emails. Um,
any closing remarks? >> Yes. >> Um, I'll again say thank you to the Lowberry Shelter Group, uh, made up of our our friends in this effort and this movement.
uh we are bringing change forward. So this is not easy. It was never going to be easy. Uh and anyone thought anyone who thought that it would be a simple solution was sadly mistaken. I have tried to repeat that as often as I
possibly could as well. I'm sure that our press coverage over the next few days will indicate how the community responds to what they have heard. Uh as some may be disappointed in hearing that holiday drive is not the solution to homelessness. I never offered it as I said that clearly to everyone that I
didn't think it could be that. I think what you have seen is a very good operating a good opportunity to model a best practice in a single service center. I think that's what it this is really meant to be a way to address
needs uh for those that we can um serve at this location. It is very expensive. We knew that it was going to be expensive. I reminded everyone that I thought that it would be expensive and that has proven to be the case. Uh, I have tried my best to make sure that I
get our team ready to engage once we had a vision and then of course marching orders from council that you were ready to take the next step. Buying the building was the easiest thing that I could do. It didn't feel like it was the easiest thing I could do and trying to find a building and then to of course
purchase it. But that's the easy part. The hard part is working beyond what we have seen today and turning that into a reality. Uh I'm sure there'll be some hiccups and some different things that we'll have to go through and get into that process. Uh but the goal that I set
out on behalf of the direction that I got from council was to make sure that we were making a big bold step forward and the fact that we have the Salvation Army and I will want to say this clearly and I will make sure that it gets stated more often. There have been some who
have wondered if the city abandoned its support of the Salvation Army's capital campaign for the center of hope. That is so far from the truth. We contributed $3 million to that campaign and want them to be successful in raising the remaining dollars. We need the beds. It is that simple. There's no question
about that. Um, but we also bought this building. We know that we have to help support in the operating. I have engaged our regional peers. Our county uh leaders, my counterparts have all heard about this project. They were all very curious about the opportunity. uh and
surprisingly I heard nothing but positive comments about it. So I hope that turns into checks uh on an annual basis. Um so we have done a lot of the preliminary work. There's still a lot more to be done. I'm sure you will begin to hear from folks who will start to
give you advice on how to consider our next steps. I know I'll be hearing more. I don't think there's a reason for us to do anything but to again thank this group for their efforts. Give you time to think about this which is what I wanted and then we'll hopefully start to circle back up all moving forward on the
timeline. There is um technical work that we will do internal and making sure that NDS staff can give their feedback into things that we want to make sure that we hear details on as well. And from there, I think we'll be able to update what we think the numbers might
look like based on some of that information. So, and engaging transportation conversations, UVA, all those different things. >> So, the work group is continuing to meet. >> I think they're going to take a break for a minute because they've been a little stressed out by the pressure that
I put on them. So, you are free to take a break. Um, but I I would anticipate that we'll have further discussions because there'll be a need for us to come back with things that we may question and want to make sure that we put back into their hands and get feedback on it as well. And I'm sure with time you all may have other
questions as well. >> Okay, thank you so much. Thank you all again for the presentation, for the months of work you've done, for the brainstorming and creativity and um care that you provide our community. If there's no other questions or
comments, do we have a motion to adjourn? >> So move. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> Thank you. >> Really?