You're going to call >> you. and you no no >> no no make sweat you learn. >> It's gonna be fun. Yes. Okay. Awesome.
>> Okay. Oh, we got a chart. >> Ready. >> Good morning everyone. >> Good morning. >> Go ahead and get started with our council retreat. Mayor. >> Um, I call the Charlottesville um special meeting to order. Um,
madame clerk, would you like to call the role or do you need to call the role? >> I'll just know that all council members are present. >> Yes. >> Very good. So, I'm going to just start with first saying hello to our public because we are live streaming this meeting and we'll post a recording of it
as well for anyone else to participate. This is council's uh retreat. We don't do these all the time, but we did do a fall retreat and now we're doing a retreat at the start of this year partially because we also are welcoming councelor Flesher to the team and wanted
to make sure that we give her the opportunity to connect to some of the conversations that have happened in the past and bring those conversations forward and also give council the opportunity to revisit their procedures uh get the required training that we have to go through but also it's important for us to be able to do a
check-in on strategy and goal making goal setting and get a financial update because I always like to make sure that you know where we are, where we're going, and what challenges we may be facing in that. Um, we're going to go ahead and get started and kick this thing off with an icebreaker led by
Steve King, the new assistant to the city manager. Steve, things change when you start adding capacity to your team. >> So, he's going to bring forward an icebreaker for council specifically, but he needs props. So I understand >> not prompts. I just need to demonstrate it so that you all when you participate
in it just to see how it functions and maybe hopefully demystify what is being asked. So Joshua, >> Sam, Evan, if we could just make a quick little circle. Um so I uh
for council uh we have had a chance to work a lot together, but I can tend to be a very handy person. And so when Sad gave me this assignment, I was really thinking about what would be the appropriate exercise um to get you all excited about what you were going to be doing today. Um and one of the things I
thought about was there's five members of council. Um you'll be asked to try to set five strategic goals. And so what better way to start your strategic retreat is with a game that is called five things. Okay. The premise of five things is really to try to get you
excited, also try to get you just to think more spontaneously because again, I'm really heady. So, this is one of those exercises I try to do to try to just break that up and really just try to honor that very first thought. Okay? So, the premise of the game is I'm going to ask a question of these three individuals. Okay? And what I need you
all as an audience to do is as they name the thing, you're going to count it as they go. When they hit five, you are all going to say five. five things. Okay. But the premise for those that are going to ask the question is really just to honor the very first thing that comes in your mind.
>> So just giving an answer. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> The very first thing that comes into your mind. Okay. Now, uh Joshua, >> tell me five things you should spill on purpose. >> You want five actual things? >> Yes. >> Um All right. Uh cologne
>> one. >> Um >> bad bourbon. >> Two. Um, really really bad music. >> Three. >> Um, anything with broccoli on it? >> Four. >> Um,
>> good ideas. >> Five. Five things. Okay. That's the That's the game. >> Wow. >> You did great. >> All right. Okay. So, everyone, as they're counting or as they're saying their things, you're going to say one, two, as they count, and then we're going to say five. Five things.
>> Okay. Sam, tell me five things you should take on for you should take with you for the perfect beach vacation. >> Got it. Okay. >> iPad. >> One. >> Twizzlers. >> Two. >> Cheetos. >> Three. >> Uh. Uh.
Sunscreen. >> Four. >> And rum. >> Five. Five things. Okay. >> Evan. Yes. >> Tell me five things you need to pack if you're going to travel the country with your wife in a car. across the pitch. For instance,
>> um the uh kitchen knife >> one. >> Spices. >> Two. >> A warm coat. >> Three. >> Uh snacks. >> Four. >> And music. >> Five. Five things. Okay. Pretty easy.
Everyone got it? You all got it? Yes. >> So, if you wouldn't mind just kind of replacing these gentlemen, we'll do a extra we'll do a round of five five things. Okay. >> Can't take our ideas. >> Again, first thing that comes in your mind, right? Doesn't have to be >> um and I'm going to try to think of
questions that uh I maybe have developed based off of just some of the observations. >> So, it's four things. >> It's five. Five things. >> Good question, though. And for those that are in the gallery, please feel free to count with us, right? It's it's
a lot more powerful when we count it all together. Okay. >> Some some of us may need some help. >> Yes. Well, the whole truth is just honor the first thing that comes to mind, right? All right, Natalie, tell me five things that should be on uh five
features for the perfect bike. >> Uh two wheels, >> one, >> a seat, >> two, >> handlebars, >> three safety lights, >> four and working breaks. >> Five five things. All right, Michael, tell me five names for a community event
that doesn't currently exist. >> Five names for a community event. >> Um, >> first thing that comes to mind, >> folk festival. >> What? >> Um, I'm just thinking things have to be rich about it. Um,
strawberry festival >> two. >> Um, uh, we used to have it, uh, Seven Pillars Hip Hop Festival. >> Three. >> Um, um, >> something around your favorite food.
>> Watermelon. >> True. Watermelon festival. >> Four. Five. Five things. Right. It's that easy. Okay. First thing that comes to mind. All right. Lloyd, tell me five things you find or tell me five things
that you found to be the most interesting during a public comment period. I don't want to create incident. >> Yeah. >> Medicine. Alternative medicine. >> Uh, >> green granny's call. >> Green granny's are always good.
>> Two. >> Although about four of them. Does that count through three? Four. >> Three. Um. Won't you call itious or something like that? >> The um
the the public recognition for CHS 14 >> four >> bike infrastructure advocacy >> passionate advocacy. >> Yeah. Well, I think you the one stood up to bereave me personally. Five five
things. All right, Mayor Wade. >> They're very interesting. >> Give me five things that you are excited about in 2026.
>> Um my mayorship. one um the um what is going to transpire at the University of Virginia with the leadership there. Two >> um the um
the the budget process is going to be very interesting this year. >> Three, >> um the actual implementation of our new zoning ordinance. four I mean with the lawsuit cleared up and um let's see oh I
know one full year of my retirement >> five five things okay Jen newest to council tell me five things that you have been surprised about while sitting
on the Davis >> uh >> the view the um I've been surprised about I've only sat there once >> two. >> Yeah.
>> And I fortunately was prepared. Um what was surprising about being up there? Um the length of information about parking. >> Three. already doing great. >> Uh
um how well behaved Sam and I were together. >> Bor and um >> I was surprised at myself constraint for not putting whoopy cushions in
everybody's seats. Five five things. >> All right. So, again, it's pretty simple. Um, for you all, what you all just did was improv. >> You didn't know that, but that is an improv exercise that we do as an improv performance. So, I uh appreciate you indulging me, and I'll turn it back over
to Joshua. >> All right. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> I do. >> Really? >> What are you doing around here? >> I do it um in uh Richmond at the Coalition Theater. >> Okay. >> We'll let you come see me sometime. Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> I'll go pack the room. >> Yeah.
>> Close. >> All right, we're done. >> All right, so we're going to we're going to dive in fully. Um, I also just want to make sure I acknowledge the team who have assembled here. Uh, they're present in the room just to be a part of helping answer questions, especially if you have
them. They're hoping that you don't need them because I didn't tell them to pair prepare anything. Um, but ultimately they they're here as a resource. Um, and I understand that Joshua has me here because I have to participate >> as a resource. >> I was hoping I could be back here with
them as well. Uh, but we are going to shift into our first speaker is Joshua Renee with the spill team. You all remember Josh as being a part of our fall retreat. It was my desire to make sure that we did not lose what we worked on in that retreat and bring forward
through some connective tissue into this particular conversation. And the thought would be that we can carry that forward. Josh has also been engaged with our lead team. He's been working with the city manager's office for the past eight months, I guess. So, there's this whole rhythm that I'm hoping to be able to
establish by having that constant thread go through. Uh later, Vienn Le Young from PFM, our financial advisor, will speak to you about that financial update that's around your lunch period. And you will hear from your city attorney after that because he has some stimulating training to take us all through. That is
required by the state government. I set him up perfectly for that. I know. So, we'll turn it over to Josh. >> Cool. I'm gonna Can I hang out on this table right here? Can I have this just in case? Cool. So, I can like chat with you all so we can see this and see that over there. Um so just reintroduce
myself and do it quickly. Uh Joshua Renee part of the spill team. Um what we ultimately do is we're speakers, strategists, facilitators, workshop designers. Um what's human center design? I often like to think of it as shifting the way that we think about a thing. It is people first, process second, not in theory, not in intention,
but in actual work and the actual work that we do. Um and so pop quiz, I usually ask this to kind of set the stage of it. Um I'll ask you all as a group. Um and you're you shouldn't have rehearsed answers at this point. Um, but if I were to do something for you, what words come to mind? What words? Improv
is great. So, what improv? Go ahead and throw out some words that come to mind if I'm to do something for you. Like, look what I did for you. Um, look, I did this for you. What words come to mind? >> Um, to think critically. >> Okay. So, I thought critically for you. What was it? >> Stimulate new thoughts.
>> Yep. Okay. Look, I did this for you. I stimulated new thoughts. I thought critically for you. But what words come to mind if I'm doing something for you? >> What do you think? like in general or specifically >> I have a great idea for you. Like look, I did this for you. >> Um, thank you. >> Okay, cool. Yeah, awesome. Thank you.
Okay. >> Yeah, I keep thinking about making dinner. For some reason, I can't shake that. >> It's all good. I love that. I love that. >> What someone does for someone, but not in this context, obviously. >> But in general, like what what what comes to mind when someone does something for someone?
>> Um, generosity. >> Generosity. A thank you. Yep. Some I put in some thought, you know, is what I hear you saying. Uh what if I do it for you? >> Um on the positive like an act of service. >> Cool. >> Yeah. In service of >> government. It's not done with you.
>> Yeah. You know where we're going with that, right? So four is like you were in my mind. That's why you know you could see that and say thank you. Um all good intentions. Um you know you were referenced. You know I thought thought it did something for you. Look what I did for you. Um those are really great words, right? You know um maybe maybe
not necessarily the most effective because intention execution are two different things. Uh because what I did for you may not be what I actually intended to accomplish. Uh going back to the meal thing, it's like look what I did for you. I made this great meal, spent all this money, made all these decisions, laid out all this thing, invited a caterer, and you're like, man,
this is awesome, but I don't eat any of this stuff, but look what I did for you. And you're like, yeah, thank you, but I don't eat this. Or but look what I did for you. You're like, yeah, I can see the critical thought that went into it, >> but um I don't eat this. Right? So with if I do it with you, what words come to
mind? >> Partnership. partnership. We're going to make that meal together because we need to make sure we sit down to eat. >> Yep. Partnership. Collaboration. >> Collaboration. Yeah. >> Or do it with you. >> What do you think? What do you think, Michael?
>> Um, again, especially with government giving up some level of control over the outcome. >> Yeah. So, shared power in there. >> Yeah. Shared control. Shared power. Yeah. That's a great answer. Yeah. Jen, what do you think? >> Same. Same >> that. Awesome. Okay. Lloyd, what do you
think? I do it with you. >> Uh we need trust each other. >> Yeah. So trust is in there. Shared power is in there. Um collaboration skin in the game. Everybody's working right. >> Um we're doing it with each other, right? Um so yeah, those words are are fantastic. They're great. Um so
alongside in collaboration, shared part of and that is the difference, right? If you were to do it with someone, um it's all the things that you just said. Uh and it is a different way of thinking. You gave me completely different words. I always like to separate the two. Um if we do the forward this turns out to be a completely different thing but if we work alongside in collaboration shared
contributed part of trusting shared power all those things you have a completely different outcome all that matters what kind of outcome do you want um if the intention was to literally create a meal have it laid out and you not work and be a part of it then I accomplished it rock on uh but if the
intention is to share power have trust skin in the game it's a completely different way of thinking value and working uh so that's kind of what human centered design looks like uh in a strategic level um in a in a cycle it kind of looks like this. Seeking to understand before we explore ideas
before you actually bring those ideas to life. We've talked about it a lot to say remove your ability to understand and bring an idea to life. What happens? Or remove your ability to have creative ideas and bring it to life. What happens? Um or just have good understanding, have good ideas and bring nothing to life. What happens? Uh the needle doesn't move. So it's completely
different way. Um what I want to do is kind of fast forward a little bit. Uh this is kind of us in action. We do like some speaking stuff. Uh there's another ball guy on the team. Um there's another ball guy. So, uh we kind of facilitate like deeper level conversations. Um there is a shot that I want to actually
talk to you about. Uh this is why we're actually in the room today. What actually happens in a workshop? Pop quiz. Just throw those things out. You all can throw some things out, too. That's okay. What happens inside of an actual workshop? >> You kind of tinker. >> Okay. I love that. I love that. You know, that's a very soft, beautiful word. I love that. I love I've never
heard anyone say that actually like tinker in there. Um I love it. What else? What happens inside of a workshop? Y'all can throw it out to improv me. >> Yeah. Build. >> Build. Okay. You build something. You tinker. What else? >> Measure. >> You measure. >> Creativity. >> Creativity. Yeah. What else happens inside of a workshop?
>> Stinks. >> It stinks. Yeah, absolutely. So, some sweat, some work. All right. Mistakes. >> Oh, mistakes. Thank you. Especially working ideas and does the workshop have ventilation? It makes >> Yeah. How come no one threw out like
perfection happens in a workshop? >> How come nobody threw out like 100% precision? How come nobody threw out like getting it right the first time inside of a workshop? Those things don't happen inside of a workshop. So what I want the
words you just said are the expectation Unless you want to throw out perfection has in the workshop, precision >> eventually event. >> Yeah. Inside the workshop, eventually we land on something. But precision, precision. All of what it took to get there was probably mistakes, work, trust, breaking things, whatever. That's
the outcome. Eventually you had an outcome. But what we're doing is building, creating, tinkering, having ideas, the action words inside of an actual workshop. The outcome is like, look at what's there. Well, now we're not working on it anymore. It's done. it's there. So the work that happens in
a workshop are all the things that you actually listed. But that's how we strategize is learning, thinking, and doing all at once. Kind of want to go over some retreat uh things. Retreats are for the most part they're commish. We plan inside of them. We strategize inside of them. Those are also three things that happen in a workshop. Um I
promise you all the things you didn't make like perfection will not happen today. Precision, we'll try to get a little clear, concise. Um but we're going to like create. It's going to be a little commish, a little chaotic. It's going to tinker a little bit. Um, if you need to roll up your sleeves, you could do that, too. We're going to workshop. Uh, me sitting up here and talking to
you all day is not a workshop. That is me sitting up here talking to you all day. Different words. So, with that said, um, workshops and retreats allow you to go from, you know, just come away from the demand of the everyday. Uh, they also like a place where direction and decisions are made. Um, assisting
closing gaps between who we are and what we want to be. Uh, should be a first response. coming away to actually go tinker and think and strategize and plan and break things and make mistakes is a good thing to do. Um you we heard the phrase all the time where some people like you should have workshopped that
more but the used to go away and like go do all of those thinking all of that happens. Um so success retreat both needs desire, hope and discipline and focus. So cool. It looks like this sometimes. This is the messiness. There's probably some smelliness going on inside of me here. Michael, they're sitting close together. Probably a
little bit of that. You might see some hometown heroes in there. Uh but a workshop, it's messy. It is ideulating. It is moving. Um it is all of the things. Um so it is learning, thinking, and doing all at once. It feels like this at the end of the day. I promise you. Especially if you're tinkering and making mistakes and learning from those
and rebuilding. Uh it will feel like this in the end of the day because we worked shocked. We worked. Like work is tiring. It's work. Um you will go on an emotional roller coaster. Promise you there's going to be ups, downs, highs, lows through it. Uh especially when people tinker, especially when they make
mistakes. I don't know ANYONE'S EVER LIKE, "YES, I MADE A MISTAKE." AND ENERGY IS SUPER HIGH. WE'RE GOING to have some lows, right? Uh we're going to have dissecting analytical moments where we look at those mistakes. Uh but we'll finish strong. I promise we will absolutely finish strong. Uh I won't let that happen. Anybody nervous? Good. Are you all nervous?
>> Anybody ready to make a break for it? Um so what we'll do is uh there are some workshop rules. participation expectation. Uh my promise to you is to give you all that I have. Like I have you for a good series of time and I'm going to give you everything I have in that time. I'll ask for the same in return.
Said think reciprocal is is okay. I'm going to give you everything I have. Full attention, full ideas, full strategizing, full thinking, full tinkering, all of those things. I'll just ask you do that, too. >> Um anybody know what this is? >> Trust. >> This is a trust ball. This gentleman is
gonna come up with all of what he can potentially do to catch this young lady. Um, and he's going to be a superhero at the end of the day. I'm gonna ask you, trust me, trust fall with me. I got your back. I promise. Uh, we will not fail in a way. We will fail in a good way, but we will not fail in a way that everyone lays down. We will fail in a way where
we learn from it and we move forward. So, I got your back. Uh, lean in. What leaning in means is being curious, be aware, and be attentive. I'm going to ask you to hold these things today as well. Hold curiosity, be aware of what's going on, and be attentive. I know these are not these are not super hard, but I want to lay the expectation out there.
Workshop rules. Um tech on the table, you can have tech on the table for a couple reasons. Uh one, if you have this computer, please bring it out, leave it out there. Um and then the other if you have this phone. So using tech is cool. Um at the end of the day, really if you want to capture some images, but we will
not be like on our devices a lot. Um we're going to be workshopping. So uh we are going to share out at times. Please make sure we respect one another as we do it. Um, we are going to there's times where I'm going to ask you to be present. And there's times I ask you to take a break. Don't take a break while being present
and don't be present while you take a break. Like honor your breaks and honor being present. Be fully attentive. Lean in. Be present. Uh, let's do the work. So, um, we can make it happen. There are times we're going to work together alone. Ultimately saying we're going to do some independent work. Might not be speaking out loud. We're not going to be
playing to this thing or anything like that. There are times we'll do some work and our work will connect to some of the other people's work in the room. that work together alone. Uh, is anyone um is this anyone that you'll write an answer, rewrite an answer to write an answer, and then rewrite an answer again? Overthinking is not allowed.
Overthinking is not allowed inside of a workshop. Um, and then I want to come up with the rules. Um, I'm going to ask you put me in a circle of trust. Okay? Please do that. Um, I promise it's it's important. Uh, but there are some other workshop rules that's going to
happen today. So, workshop rules, there are no policies or programs. There will be no departments or owners in our kind of conversation. Uh we will be speaking in outcomes of movement not in solutions. There are a couple other ones. Um one voice at a time and
disagreement is allowed derailment is not. Is anyone like what in the world are we actually going to do? Is anyone thinking this? If we can't talk about those things, WHAT IN THE HECK DO WE ACTUALLY come here to do? we can't derail the
conversation or if I can't speak louder than the next person, uh, or if I can't just lean into the policy, then what are we actually here to do? Um, please keep me in the circle of trust, you know, as we go through it. I want to tell you what we're here to do and kind of a recap of what we did last time. Um, it's about direction setting and not
decision- making. Okay. Um, last time we were together. So, I want to ask you real quick, what is direction setting? What do you think direction setting is? know some words definitely >> setting priorities. >> Okay. Setting priorities. Yep.
You think direction setting is >> wayfinding. >> Wave. Yeah. Yeah. Wayfinding. Yep. Direction setting. Not decision- making. I mean there's micro decision everything but direction setting as a whole.
setting um aligning goals and actions. >> Okay. >> Aligning goals and actions. Wayfinding. Yeah. >> What is it not? What is direction setting not? >> Minutes. >> Minutes. Yeah.
>> What is it not? >> Inert. What is it now? >> I know you have answers. What do you think, Mike? What do you think? What is direction setting not? >> It's not direction unsetting. >> Say that again. >> It's not direction.
>> It's not It's not implementation. >> Okay. Yeah. It's not implementation. It's not doing the work. >> It's tough. Those interesting pause super interesting. Um direction setting. Uh where we're going getting there and how we know ultimately those things are kind of in a direction. Um what we're
going to do is where we're going creates focus. Getting there is strategy and execution. And how we know is measuring. Set direction so we can measure. Set direction so we can have focus. And set direction so strategy and execution can happen. Um for us, we're going to live
in this space today. The direction setting that we're going to be living in is so focus and measuring can take place, not necessarily in the strategy and in the execution. We will make strategic decisions um but we're not going to live in the executable like doing the work strategy. We're live in the in the place that direction can
provide focus and direction can provide measuring. Cool. With me? Awesome. All right. The design challenge that we're workshopping today, um there goes that word again. You do have an opportunity to make a break for it if you'd like. We're going to work. We're we're going to work. So
you if you wanted to go for go for a run, this might be the time. This might be the time. But we we are going to work. Um all right. So you have this in front of you. Do me a favor and take this document and fold it like this. Take this document and fold it like
this. This is what you see. >> Origami is part of workshop. No paper Well paper cuts happen. like all right take a look at those that list there strategic outcome let's take a look at that
>> take I'm so sorry >> to take a picture >> right take a look at it glance internalize it sit with it for a second allow both head and heart which is value system and thought processes to both connect around But just sit with it for a second. Those strategic outcomes.
>> All right. I want to ask what do you see just what jumps out to you? What do you see when you see them as a whole? >> I see our community. I see everybody different parts of the community say they're passionate about climate. They're passionate about public safety.
So when I see these, it's like, yeah, this is our community, >> right? I heard two really key words, right? I hear I hear passions and our community is seen in those. Okay. Yep. >> I see too big of a list. >> Okay. >> Lloyd, what do you see when you look at
that? >> I don't mean to be dra derailing, but I can't read the damn. >> Okay. All right. All right. Then that means it doesn't serve you well, right? No. Okay. Um, Natalie, when you look at that list, what you think? Uh, I mean it covers all of the bases. >> Okay. >> It's thorough.
>> Okay. >> Thorough. It covers the basins. Got it. Yep. >> Mike, what do you see when you look at that? >> Um, they're separate. Makes sense that they're separate, but um, a lot of them are interconnected. >> Okay. Interconnections. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Sam, what do you see? >> A lot.
>> A lot. Okay. >> Um, all right. So, here's the thing. Here's what I see. Uh, strategic outcomes describe where your work happens. If you look at that, when you look at that list, it's where our work is actually taking place. It happens in those spaces.
Can we agree to that when you look at those that that's where work is actually happening? >> I know that we're not playing to the camera, but for people who are watching this at home, can we read them aloud so they know what we're talking about? >> Yeah. And then also maybe tell them where to get it like if it's accessible
as well. Like so. Yeah. Um Natalie, you do that. Let read those aloud. And then if you >> I'm just going to read the titles. I won't read the >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then where to where to access it. Maybe that's a staff member or something like that. That'd be great. Y >> um climate action, economic prosperity, education, housing, organizational excellence, partnerships, public safety,
recreation, arts, and culture. That's one, and transportation. >> Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. And where can it where can the public get this? >> Transparency portal on the city website. >> Cool. Awesome. Thank you. >> Um and so when you look at these, uh they're where they're where our work happens. So there's interesting. There's
two on that list that describe how the work happens. They're not where the work happens. They're how the work happens. Uh what are those? If you look at see if you can spot them on that list, there are two on there that describe how work happens. >> Partnerships and organizational
excellence. >> There you go. Beautiful. Partnership is one of them. Absolutely. And organizational excellence is a second one. I'm going to talk to you all about organizational excellence a little later. We've actually done some work with that. Um but it's how the work happens. So we have on this list all the things you mentioned in addition to a
list of talking about where our work happens and on the list is also how our work happens might be a lot all on one list. So at the end of the day strategic outcomes these talk about for the most part where the city does its work.
Uh but this is a design challenge I actually want to work with you on today. So the challenge of workshop is designed to address a common kind of one in governance. Um strategic outcome areas are effective at organizing work. Uh but they don't always make a council's direction and intent easy to see for
staff and community. We're talking about where the work happens and two of them on the list are how the work happens. And it doesn't always make the intent at which the thing you're trying to move and impact actually like easy something easy to grab. Um and so the workshop creates space to clarify that intent. So
decisions, trade-offs, and measuring are guided by a shared sense of direction rather than just categories. These are list of categories of where our work is taking place. Hard to speak to all of them, especially if they're a lot and especially if two of them are talking about how our work actually happens. So
design question for today. What would it look like if city council use human center design to better clarify goals that help influence prioritization, decision-m, and direction? This is kind of one question we'll do our best to answer today. What would that look like? What would that look like, Michael? What would it look like? Throw a This improv
thing is I'm going to feed into this all day long. This is going to be great. Um, what would it look like? >> Uh, I mean, just one part of it on partnerships if the city um is bringing the community in in making decisions and
implementation and kind of new ways. >> What would the answer to this question look like? Jen, what do you think? >> What would the answer to the question look like? Um, >> like the outcome. The outcome. >> Visions come to life.
>> Visions come to life. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. What would the outcome of this look like? >> Um, so there's like a balance between hearing feedback and also providing education.
>> Yeah. So that when people are providing feedback, they have a fuller sense of what the what they're talking about and what their decisions would lead to. >> Sure. Yeah. So the outcomes is something that can do both of those. >> Yeah. >> That Yeah.
>> I guess part of the human center design is giving people the information they need to make a decision that actually leads them to their goal. >> Yeah. Or informs you all to create direction that leads to goals, right? That it's your job, right? As well. So yeah, I love that. Love that. Lloyd,
what would an outcome look like? >> I guess I don't understand the question because I thought that we were had been trying to apply the notion of human- centered design when we developed this list in the first place. >> Sure.
>> You'll say you workshopped it. You're tinkering. You're working. >> We were here. >> Yeah. >> We spent a day doing that. Yeah. >> So, I love that there's there is a a tension in there of like I thought we did this and what we have is a beautiful list of strategic outcomes. Um,
>> frankly, the question is a series of buzzwords. >> Yeah. >> And I don't I I don't understand what it is you what it is we think we're supposed to be coming out with. uh and and how how answering that
question gets us out of anything other than buzz other than more buzzwords. >> Well, let me ask you a question. Do you agree that on that list are places where we do our work and how we do our work? On the list in front of you, I know it's hard to see. >> Yeah. So, there's there's a tension already there that on our strategic outcome list, we have a list of that
talks about where we do our work and a couple of things you're talking about how we actually do our work. >> Would we say there's a tension in there? >> There's a difference. >> Sure. That's true. >> One and one tells us how we do the other. >> How come we don't have house for all the
other ones like a how housing or but we have two. Why why is it we have those two in that list? So we have a list that's a mixture. It's a mixture of where we do our we have one list that's called strategic outcomes and in that list we have where we do our
work and a couple of them two of them in there are how we do our work. Why is that in one list? just thought you should again and you may not have an answer and that's okay because that answers the question of let's get clear let's let's sort that let's sort it out so it's clear concise
and maybe it's not a mixture of where and how and and why and it's it's a clear concise set of visions that drive you know and invite education and can also drive direction >> but if it's human- centered design and we're using it to make a list we would
engage the users in determining this list we would prototype their ideas and see if they worked. We would reprototype. Then we would launch that and have that decision go into action and reframe it with the input from those users. So should we not assume that
human center design that that happened to get to this list? >> That's a great question. So, and for me to tag on to that, I think it's important that >> for us as council to be able to utilize that that we have to be able to understand that, you know, the end
users. We're here for the the 50,000 people in Charlottesville. And so we have to connect with those who not only come to council meetings and email us >> but the probably I don't know the 90% of
the people that don't >> do that but have a voice >> but may not connect with us. So let's let's the end of this what it looks like is maybe a series of clear concise um pillars that we can go and actually have conversation with the community on
that's a little easier to dialogue that that conversation with them getting their feedback. I think if I take this list that is a mixture of how and where it's probably super hard to have that with the community. I'd probably say it's it's it's not as there's an easier way potentially that
drives the conversation, but I think if I decide to sit down with a cute community member, it's like, can I talk to you about a list of how we do like where we do our work and how we do our work? Can I can I give you that? And community might be like, man, that's a lot. >> But in Charlottesville, where process is
at least as important as policy. >> Yeah. >> To not include the hows leaves people feeling like we haven't really talked about anything. I think how is actually very important. There's a really good quote that says in a moment, not yet. And it says we will absolutely get into
the how. The how's the strategy and the execution. In a moment, not yet. And a model therapy that talks to conversations is that sometimes when there's multiple pieces in a conversation, instead of one conversation, it should be broken into two and maybe three for easy digesting,
understanding, implementation. So we are going to talk about where, how in a moment. Not yet. Cool. >> Not cool. Not I am I am not clear about what's happening. >> Got it. >> So it What problem are we solving for? >> Yep. This is what we're going to do today. >> Okay.
>> Yep. So we are going to translate strategic outcome areas into clear council strategic goals. Uh we're going to align around shared direction without needing full agreement. Uh we are going to create language staff can plan against and the community can understand.
That's what my our mission to accomplish today. This isn't direction setting. This is or policy decision-making or program design or staff work. This is about translating strategic outcomes. This list that I think I heard is a lot. I hear it's holding two things. Um I hear talks about where our work is, how
our work's happening. Is taking this list and being able to translate it into some kind of higher level strategic goals that can guide conversation, invite feedback, educate others, invite people along, make it easily understandable because it's a lot. right? Uh we'll align together. We'll
align around those things without needing like full agreement. Ultimately saying, you know, I can use that to drive a conversation with the community, too. I can use that also to engage in some of the the policy and decisions that I do want to potentially make, but it's hard to engage off of a list like that. So, what I want to do is for us to
go one religious level higher and give you the right like ingredients to cook with when it comes to engaging with the community, having educational conversations, making sure it's not a lot. So, what I'll ask is that trust the process to see if we could translate
this align and ultimately create language. That's not a lot. or saying two different things. One is one conversation higher than this. It's not getting rid of this at all. It's just having an elevating into one
conversation that isn't a lot. It's not doing multiple things at one time. Allows us to have like a conversation. So, we're going to do it with each other. Uh there is another cool I want to ask. Um anybody ever done this before? Stepped in gum. >> Done this pretty. Never in your man.
Michael, never in your life you ever stepped in gum? Never have. That is impressive. That is actually very very impressive. One of life's goals to do that. Um, one more set of rules that I'd love you to create. So, we are going to translate. We're going to do this. Um, we are going to translate, align, and
create language. What I'd like you to do in translating, aligning, and creating language. That's what we're going to do together today. We're going to take one step, one floor above these. That's what we're going to do. We're going to live in that space. That's one floor above these. Uh, what I'd like you to do is think of this question. What is one thing you do not want this conversation
to get to do to take us away from alignment uh creating language and to translating? What is one thing you hope doesn't happen in this conversation to get that gets us stuck? Write that on a rectangle posted if you could grab a Sharpie.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Please. But if the goal is to align, translate, and to create language, I'll kind of go back here. If the goal is to do this today, what would we be accomplishing today?
What is one thing that you hope does not happen that gets us stuck? Or or works or works against this? Another way to ask it is something that could potentially enter the room that works against this. >> Wait, I'm so sorry. I'm I it's probably
because I'm the new guy, but so we're saying the problem is that this is not translatable. We are not aligned on this and we don't have the language to talk about this with users in the community. >> Yes, great question. Our conversations when it comes to the strategy of the organization starts there.
>> Is the problem there that it's too long and we need to shorten it or is the problem we're trying to I don't know. >> Well, yeah. What I would like to do is create something that doesn't exist yet, which is the level higher than this. And I don't even understand what that means. >> Are we pretending like this list doesn't exist? No, we're trying to read it.
>> We'll be using this list today. Actually, >> when you use the metaphor of some higher room, I don't understand what you're getting at. >> So, we're taking as a bird's eye view. We're getting a little higher. We're getting into why these things matter. >> Why? What things matter? >> This list of strategic outcomes, >> the nine. >> Correct. Yep.
>> We're getting into the conversation of why they're important, why they matter, why I see community in all of them. We're going to get into that now that conversation Lloyd and that place doesn't even exist yet which is why we're going to build it because our
conversations when it comes to the we can write it spit it off the top of our heads but we don't have a document right now that communicate this is where our conversations actually start they start here and all the things you mentioned of it being a lot that means our
conversations start here at a lot it being two different things of where we means our conversation starts at where we work and how we work that's where our conversation starts. So what I'm looking at is is there another place that we can actually remember maybe this is a second conversation then what would be the
first and we're going to create that together. It doesn't need to like we're going to build that. But if this is where our conversation starts and all the things you said you saw in it, that's where it starts with our community. And so could we go one level higher into a different conversation, a
higher conversation around why these matter, the purpose of them that is not in the minutia and not in the strategy and not in the in the doing of the work. And so maybe, you know, Michael, if I could feed off of you a little bit, one
of the examples you gave was getting into uh the minutiae of the like the actual work that could derail the ability to stay at a higher level and talk about like the why of something. But I want to get into the how we do it and I want to get into the needle
moving. I want to get into seeing 45 of this and 80% of that in a moment, but maybe not yet. So maybe one of the things that could get in the room and keep individuals from staying in in the the kind of higher level the the the the floor above the floor could be I like it
down there in the messy. I like it down there in the execution. So maybe one of the things that could derail us is well maybe getting into the how would derail a conversation that takes us away from why. Maybe getting into the actual
implementation. I think that was the word you used. The implementation and the strategy gets us away from the why and the purpose not permanently but for the sake of staying at that higher level conversation that if we start talking
maybe one of the things that's a cheat sheet you can have that one it's yours. If we start talking about implementation and strategy it could get us away from talking about why and purpose because we're talking about implementation strategy. We're not talking about why and purpose. We will be using this today to influence and
inspire because this is what we're we're going to be cooking with. But there's a why and purpose conversation I would love to have with you all and love to build with you all and also trust the process. Don't anticipate the eight steps because that also that might
be one someone can have that too by the way that what could maybe derail us if we're trying to anticipate the six other steps that's going to happen after this one. That could also be realist. In the first workshop, you mentioned um two things that really make a good leader. You talked about humility and
creativity. The opposite of those could also derail us. There's a lot of things that we just mentioned. I just gave a bunch of free answers of that could derail us from from staying in the why and purpose conversation. Cool. Do me a favor. Read um
I would love to do is read your feedback. read one that you said could potentially derail the conversation out of keeping us in why focus. What is >> So for someone that's been you know a lot of these over the last I don't know 30 some years um you know just get down
into like Lord said the details of word smithing >> not that it's not important but um it really could you we could spend all all day a lot trying to determine what you know inclusive mean or something like that. >> Sure. Sure. Or defining it and getting
it like the three pillars. that's supported the eight strategies and how we measure it in six months. Yeah, I got you. Absolutely. Um, what is something Sam that you have that could derail the conversation from taking us out of the why and purpose of these strategic outcome areas? >> Predetermination of the result.
>> Michael, what do you uh you mentioned one you focusing on implementation, but I wrote down similar to one getting stuck in semantics. >> Yeah. >> Natalie, what do you have? I wrote not buying in. >> Sure.
>> There's trust connected to that and commitment connected to that. Yeah. Natalie. H not Natalie. I'm saying Jen. Yeah, please. >> I'm just wandering and off point. >> Okay. Just kind of Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Um there there there's a process we're going to build together. And so what I want you to do is grab your post-it note and throw it under
don't get stuck. Put that underneath there, please. My hope is to not point back to them often. Um, but I want them up there just in case. You all just listed a series of behaviors uh that could potentially get
us get us stuck. All right. Awesome. For the next uh exercise, you are going to need this as well. So, be sure to have that. Um, I want to do a statement starter real quick. You're going to need Sharpie and rectangle post-it note as well. Question I I want from you. I'm going to give you about 7 minutes and I want you
to do about three of these a piece. Okay? I want you to finish this statement. Uh across all strategic outcome areas, this city most needs what? And you get to finish the blank. You get to finish the blank. Across all strategic outcome areas, when you look
at that list, this city needs what? I want you to write at least like three of them. Take about seven minutes to do that. each on a different sticky or >> Yes, please. Thank you. Yep. Each on a different post note. >> Across all the strategic outcome areas.
>> Look at that list. If you need to land on your first idea or if you look at your idea and want to rework another idea, that's cool, too. Got some time on you to do it. >> I'm not getting out of office. I just realized I forgot to put my out of office. a little bit. If you were to get pain, we don't understand that you're
being called, >> but take a second and like really reflect on that list and say, you know what, across all of these strategic outcome areas, this city really needs what you're experiencing in this question alone is everything we've been
talking about, which is getting higher. There's a password. >> Did you get to work? >> No, not as far as I know. But I I actually connected. >> Yeah, just three three that three that
jump out to you. Oh, I apologize. I'm super sorry. Can I give me some rules of engagement? That's cool. I'm glad I did it earlier. Here's some rules of engagement. Um, start with a verb. That's cool. You already started your first level of ideas. Rules of engagement. Start with a verb. Uh, cannot aim outcome areas. So, when
answering this question, um, it is starting with a verb and you cannot name any of the outcome areas on this list. No programs or policies >> and one idea for a post-it note. Yep.
>> Outcome areas. >> So, cross check your answers to these set of rules. Go ahead. feedback. So, I mean, for the most part, we'll keep that, but I think for the most part, that's what you're really saying. Yeah, this is the reason for it, but
you're also saying this is the go All right, maybe about another two minutes. Um, cross check yours as you wrote them. Make sure they start with the verb, that you're not naming any of the outcome areas, uh, not mention any programs or policies, and that you do have one idea
per per post. Check your Okay, go ahead. You wrote that quick. Love it. Okay. Um, hopefully you have your three. Do me a favor and bring them up here and throw them on this wall
right here. Hey, kind of hang up here with me if you could for a moment. >> All right. I want you to be able to share one. There's some rules of engagement for sharing, though. Um, I want you to share one of your statements that you strongly feel about. But rules for sharing. Uh, no reactions or
clarification. Uh, listen for overlap. So, please listen for overlap. Um, trust the process and the silence that we're looking for is actually intentional to be able to sit, absorb, hang out with. Um, and then I will I'm going to ask you to do some strategic thinking with me if that's okay as we're hearing some of the
answers and the overlap as well. um begin to think about um so uh as you look at yours I want you to share one statement that you feel most strongly about uh the silence is intentional for the rest of the just the rest of the group to absorb it and sit
with what you're saying uh there is no explaining it um and then please like hear things like that so cool uh Sam you want to start with across all out and you can say the statement we can say it louder so the camera can hear us as well um across all outcome areas this needs to
and then you'll u give us your answer after you sir >> across all outcome areas the city needs to engage >> across all I'm reading one of >> mine across all areas the city needs to fine >> across all active areas needs to
implement >> across all outcome areas the city needs to figure out how to measure projects >> across all outcome areas. The city needs to um build more residences
>> which does affect all of the areas. >> Okay, hold on. >> Uh across all outcome areas, the city needs to measure impacts across different economic classes. >> Awesome. Um, Jen, can you do your
beautiful mind thing and let's see like look at some grouping. We can talk with the group and just see what's themes clustering them together. >> Just from those one that were red or >> all of them at this point. Yeah, all of them at this point. Yeah. >> Um, I'm I'm going to go crazy. I'm I'm going to mess this all up. >> Yeah.
>> No, it said mess. >> Yeah. >> Not smelly, but mess, right? Yeah. Yeah. And in a moment, I'm going to ask you to like tell us what she saw and we're going to like talk it through. We're just going to get a good starting point of what looks like it belongs in a family room.
And you can create as many as you want, Jen. Like as many groups as if it's three, four. If you're like, you know, it's a group of its own. You can do that. >> Like to have three when I do this, but uh >> try and do more. >> No. >> Stop bossing me, Josh.
>> Trying to do more. >> Okay. or less this whole thing. >> Not yet. Not yet. In a moment. Not yet. In a moment. >> Okay. >> You got this. I believe it. >> Like, okay, this is going to >> close to this. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um >> I see you put it in close proximity of
the other group just for like that sake of relationship. >> I know. I can't see. >> I see what you did there. >> Oh, look. I'm making I'm consolidating again. Uh oh. Um >> try and have like if you could do five or something or four, that's good. >> Okay. I can do
Two and a half. >> Did you do three impossible? Yeah, we're playing. >> All right. Four is good. I can deal with that. All right. Tell us what you got. Like, and I'm going to give you this in a moment. We might do some labling in a second. Okay. >> But tell us what you got and just what you're seeing and and when I'm talking with the group, we want to get some
agreement that these might be four different kind of things that have something to do with one another. >> Okay. So, this is the city. This is I would say all falls under accountability, but that is just the word I first came to mind. But the city needs to
um we'll say uh like know when it's >> okay. And and when you have that, go ahead and read us that group too. Say, you know what? Almost walk us uh remember math, it was like show your work. The teachers like show your work. Show your work. read us those things and
tell us maybe how you got there and then we'll talk it out as a group. >> Okay. So, >> show your work. >> Figure out how to measure progress. Measure impacts across different economic classes. Although I would like to just this is one and this is like >> it's
decide how to measure successors together. I put drive creativity over here because measuring is often a dreaded um Excel Gant chart and creativity can help maybe this not be critical.
>> U but really we could do that for all. >> I was thinking that like maybe we want to take put it over here parking lot. >> You are not going back anymore. >> That's true. >> Say that for the camera. I need you to
>> engage a lot about educate but educate is a to you. Not to be confused with the two the >> and um this is a four work with sorry this is a two four this is a with together um but engage
engage you need to feel secure if you are going to engage go out to the community for feedback on policy development >> does this kind of feel a little bit toward education a little bit like we're talking about information here >> it's again it's a twofer so this is go out to the community means engage >> engage policy development
>> that's the Right. >> What? >> Yeah. >> So that all needs clarifying. >> Okay. We'll get So let's we'll come maybe come back to that. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> And then this is the how. So Oh, so this category is uh
>> and and sorry while you're explaining this, Jen, also we're thinking about this too, right? This this is kind of when you label we're thinking about this as well. >> Say what? Sorry. That it means say what it means. >> Um and
um listen to what's said. >> Um and then >> um Okay, so then we're just going to brag on him all day. >> He loves it. I love you. >> He loves it. He loves all mustache and
all. >> Um this is >> I got your back. >> Straight up. I'm just messing with y'all for a second. This is the how. >> Okay. So, >> this is this is needs across a lot of areas. The city needs to know when it's winning. Say what it means. Um
>> do Yeah. Do the thing. >> Sorry. Your build. Can you read us those as well? So, >> yeah. >> Um find funding, implement, build residences, create um Oh, why not? Sorry. >> Through waves. >> Thriving thriving weight. What's that? >> Thriving waves.
>> Thriving waves. Okay. driving away. Okay, >> I think this should be up here honestly. >> Okay, >> creativity creativity like we are going to we need to be creative if we're going to do all of these things because we don't have
enough. >> We don't have enough money to do all this stuff. >> Thank you. I heard that across all the city needs to drive creativity. >> All right. So, >> so we've got one which is >> 500. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Two, >> two and a half. Three. So, look, we're down to an odd again. My hand. >> If I could, if I could ask you to label this, so we have four, what would you what would you uh label this as? And this is around education that this city
needs to educate is what I'm ultimately across all the strategic outcome areas. We're saying that this city needs to educate. What would you Is it? >> Uh this is >> sexy words are okay. You can do sexy words. We need to
get better at internal and external communication. >> Okay. >> And Jen needs to get an okay >> it's all good >> because you can't educate anyone if they
don't like you got to be clear. Yeah, I mean we and what's important about that is it'll get better feedback for the thread do it all right like you're going to draw a bridge I can do >> you could probably do bridge them all right you know in a sense they all have
something to do with one another right um okay strategic out can you grab your strategic outcomes uh origami please for a second bring that up here with me um all right so I have an an elevation check and that is that higher Lloyd, we're going to we're going to stay
elevation check. Um, so elevation check question. As you look at those strategic outcome areas, you got to memorize. You good? >> Okay. Um, here's my my question. Uh, when you look at we do the thing is what I heard you say. Uh, get better at internal and external comms, right? I
hear that. Say say it. Uh, >> oh, the the city needs to say what it >> says. Okay. >> So, let's go across all outcome areas. The city needs to drive creativity. We're just going to say that. Uh but it needs to do the thing.
>> It needs to get better at internal and external communication. >> It needs to say what it means and listen to what's said. >> It also needs to know when it's winning. That's that and tracking progress measuring all those things. My question to you as you look at those strategic
outcome areas is this on screen. Um is are these bigger than one strategic outcome area? Are are what you have up here as labels bigger than just one area >> by definition of the problem? Yes. >> Okay.
That the labels we have tend to span across all those areas. >> Right. Well, that was that was the the other side. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted elevation check. This is just a checking. This is checking our work. is that the work that we just did, you would say those label
that we created do are bigger than just one strategic outcome area. >> They apply to all outcome areas. >> Got it. Awesome. Sweet. Okay. I just want to double check before we move on to the next thing. All right. Next is um an exercise around goal quality statements. We're going to turn these into some language. Um you can have a
seat for me real quick. And look, I I also want to like introduce myself in a way. I promise I'm going to ask you a question. Um I'm actually really curious. like I'm really really really curious. Um so what I want to do is kind of talk you about goal state goal ingredients and writing goal statements and things of that nature
because we are going to create some goal statement quality out of these ingredients. These are raw ingredients right now. Um I know you couldn't write a full sentence just yet. Uh still great sexy words. I appreciate that. Um and drawings really really great. Uh but we're going to take these and kind of cook with them for a moment. But I kind of want to tell you about the secret
goal the ingredients to creating an actual goal. Um, and you can't tell anybody, but this is a cheat sheet, okay? And if I share the recipe, then that's it. We're going to have a lot of chefs that are like, "It's a secret recipe." Looks like this. There are three parts to writing a strategic goal.
Okay? Verb plus what's being shifted, what's changing because of it, and why it matters. Those three things literally equal a strategic goal. If we can write
something that has a verb, what's being shifted and why it matters. You have a strategic goal. You don't have implementation. You don't have play-by-play tactics and tasks and things like, but we have a strategic goal. A verb,
what's being shifted and why it matters. Cool. On the same page right now, at least. All right, we're going to work. Here's what we're going to do. Um, I want to break us up into I'm going to >> Wait, wait. Can't we have an example? Oh, let's think of it. Um, so let's pull
one up from up here. Um, improv. God, it's gonna be the thing today. Love it. No one is winning. Okay, no one is winning is a wrong greeting. If you were to take know when it's winning and you were and we let's let's workshop it right now together. Let's have a conversation. If you were to take knowing it's winning and I needed to
create a strategic goal out of that. Um, what would you try? What would it be? If you need a verb, you know what's being shifted and why it matters. And you are also keeping in mind that knowing it's winning has affects every one of these outcomes. Every single one of them. So try it.
Shoot it out of me. Let's workshop it. Let's fail on purpose. Let's break things. Let's use non like bad grammar. Let's do all those things. It's completely okay. They're okay with that because we're humans and not perfect. Um so let's workshop it. Take a second and all of you as a team um just write something down. See if you can try it.
Um individually, I'm sorry. See if you can try it. If you could take no when it's winning. know it's winning. Yeah. Know when it is winning. And you could take that and you're going to create a strategic goal around it using this model verb. What's being shifted and why it matters.
And if you want, remember you have little sub ingredients up there that explaining what that means. And there's a bunch of verbs. You all use verbs up there. Actually, we talked about accepting accountability. Uh figuring out how to measure progress. You talk about
measuring impacts. Decide how to measure success versus failure. Be willing to measure progress to pull the plug on things that aren't working. So you a lot of verb ingredients over
there around knowing when it's winning. Did I miss an explanation behind the phrase what's being shifted? Because I don't know exactly what that refers to. >> So this is so what you get to think about when it come when I asked you
about knowing um when it's winning and how this would impact all of these areas staying at that kind of high level. He's like, "You know what? If we know when when the city is winning and it impacts all these areas, what would shift?" Like what would And a lot of these Lloyd
right here to be honest with you, you kind of already answered the question underneath what would shift. We talked about accountability, clearer measuring, things of that nature. But when you think about the no one's winning and all the verbs you have up there um across all these areas, what would change for
the city? What would change if we did that? If we met that goal, what would be shifted for this city as a whole? And then that thing you create about what would shift, why does that matter
beyond every city thrives, you know, like all of those things. But but for you specifically when you write that that thing that you're talking about shifting why does that matter especially across all strategic outcome areas My teacher.
All right, give me about another minute just to write and we have grace for grammar and all those things. So we are we are improving the day. Thank you. The city needs to It's winning.
There was a goal wrapped around that. All right. N will you will you read yours out loud? Is that >> Yeah, I wasn't sure quite what the mission here was. So, I have two different ones. Okay. >> Um the first is uh analyze actions to understand ROI and where to continue,
discontinue or adjust investment to maximize effectiveness. Okay. >> And then the other one is celebrate achievements to encourage progress and confidence. >> Great. Is it great? So >> if there was a goal, a strategic goal underneath know when it's winning.
>> Yeah. >> What would you say? >> So it's um you know that we need to communicate to the public that we are um you know I'm just going to say building more housing because it's important that they see the impact of their tax
dollars. >> It's good. It's raw. It's raw. It's a good start. Uh there was a goal under no when it's winning. And remember um and last time we were together I always kind of pointed you back to the previous work you did. You have a lot of verbs up there like you have explained it pretty
thoroughly. So I'm looking to hear some of your already answers show up in your new answers after you. >> Yeah. I'm not sure if this is what we were going for, but I wrote down um to the question of like knowing if we're winning or not and communicating if
we're winning measure if low-income residents are benefiting from policies to see if equity is being achieved. Okay, >> Jen, you got some workshop stuff going on over there. What's one that you would you could share with us? and and we have we're workshopping this
>> you know I just asked you for the first time did not anticipate asking this after you >> yeah no that I just yeah was these are good examples of how um of how to write a strategic goal I think
I got trapped in the uh task for a minute because I was like well we have to identify measurements of success but then I think the goal if the goal is What does it look like if we know when
>> Yeah. No. If we if we know if the goal of know when it's winning, the goal of that would be we're able to regularly report out success, measured progress and success. >> Okay. >> To
and there's a billion why it matters. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Wow. And if you could tell us something like overall for the community, why doing that matters? Why did what you just read, why would that matter? Like >> uh to build trust, encourage engagements,
>> uh encou uh foster partnerships >> to to know where we are and where we're headed like Yeah. million different things. >> Waveinding. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Wave. I like that wayinding. Can you add that like it helps maybe, you know, measure waveinding?
Awesome. Lloyd, um I >> know when we're winning, what would a strategic goal look like? >> I said to build a city where residents can get to a job that can sustain their lives. >> Okay. >> Housing transportation.
>> Yeah. And and what I love is that there's a lot of these strategic outcomes that actually have to happen to help that happen. >> Right. >> Would you agree with that? that there's a lot of these outcomes that have to take place and and win at in order for that to actually happen.
>> What do you think about that? >> That's why they're there. >> Yeah, >> that is actually one step higher, right? It's that that's the message and then we do our work here to make that happen. >> There's a lot of these actually that take that have to take place to have
someone read yours one more time. It was great. Like read it one more time. Build a city where residents can get to a job that can sustain their lives. >> Absolutely. And that resident needs multiple of these to take place. That's a great goal. That's really good. Um all right. What I want to do is
actually break you into groups and I want to workshop some of the other ones if that's okay. Um so groups are going to be we have three up there because I didn't anticipate playing with this one. Um but that's okay. um
groups. Jen, Natalie, Michael, you're in a group. And then gentlemen, you're in a group together. Cool. Um what I'd like you to do is actually do the same exact thing. Um and actually I'm going to hand you the cluster that's up there. And uh you all are going to do exactly what you just did for that cluster. Uh the other
I'm going to hand you off some of these. So feel free to go on that side of the table if you want to just kind of scoot to this side of the table. Um I will hand you these So Jen, I'm handing you all do the thing. >> Okay. >> Is that okay? Do the thing is yours.
>> Okay. Oh. Oh, sorry. >> No, it's all you. >> Do the thing is yours. Say what it means. >> You can uh double triple check. This is Say what you mean. Correct. >> Well, it's part of uh say what you mean
and listen. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> All right, gentlemen. Here you go. This is yours. This is the label up top and all of the verbs that you all have, action words underneath. You're going to play with these and cook with them. >> We got to do the thing. >> We got to do the thing.
>> So, it is um >> say >> sorry, that's a major reference. >> What it means to say just do your best not blur the lines >> and then some of the words to clarify. get better at homes and then you have a couple describers. You have
educate and maybe while you're writing you can think but you were saying these two policy what would a strategic goal look like? >> Okay. >> And that second one as well >> on on policy development and >> um
>> okay so are these like objectives towards the goal what's being shifted and why not >> implementation. So it's like >> that last word implementation. Uh, >> oh that's my that's implementation. >> Implementation >> and and as you're writing I just want you to remember you're not solving the
problem. You're naming the goal it serves. So you think about these strategic outcomes. The reason why I talked him out about Lloyd is like these serve his goal very well. That goal he wrote these serve that very well. You have to do this to get to that. So remember you're not solving the the
problem. You are really naming the goal that the problem serves. and just sit with that statement for a second because it does take time to break it down and process it a little bit but Lloyds was really just a good example of that strategic goal really houses it's like that's the real thing
this is how we go about achieving achieving that >> but we're supposed to do a goal for how to >> correct yeah you're still on some tasks I just wanted to throw you that little statement of you know said man I'm still kind of stuck on it want to throw you another statement to help do some clarification >> so um
>> okay >> so again clarify, you know, feel secure. And this one was actually for >> public safety, but it can, you know, >> are we doing >> this? We're doing this and then we're doing this separate >> to um
>> so >> um >> which is engagement. >> Yeah. Engagement. Yeah. >> So, we were doing everything. We were doing all of these things, right? >> With the goal around engagement. >> Yes. Going out. >> How would we know we were doing it all right? communicating I believe in a lot
of different ways >> and not you know because we have a wide range we have a >> people a lot of degrees and those who may not finish high school so this is the do and concise is the the message >> this is the building this stuff
>> so the verb >> improving the school this is like all of the things that we want to do this is actually getting >> so we don't live in plans world we actually we actually found the funing we're implementing. We're building houses. We're creating thriving
say engagement education, you know, kind of >> the one we just did. >> The verb >> that's the one you just did, by the way, the strategic um the knowing. Can I have that? >> The verb and that goal form is is to >> the one you sorry >> maintain engagement, facilitate
engagement, produce. >> That's what we're trying to say. >> Yeah, I got you. Um, so >> if we were to pick >> this goal would be like it would be achieving achieving Yeah. Yeah. achieving >> or or our plans
to wrote >> fulfill our promises. >> Exactly. >> That's one way to say something like that, right? Like >> it's the doing it is >> I mean I mean the goal really is to like um >> the engagement is what we're doing but why
>> to meet the need to meet I mean that's what I was saying our plans to make better promises what we're doing with their tax and needs are demand these um engagement >> we talk about implement we're talking about implementing a plan we're talking
about like steward right I agree that's part of it the bus is more about listening to what frequency it's like all of those demands that have actually getting them done. So we don't it's not like you get a regard
>> binder and it becomes just one way. >> So turning that shelf >> so we got to figure that out >> paperwork into >> the small area plan that actually gets built the plan actually gets a tree and the roundabout drive the quick builds that actually turn into concrete.
>> That's what I mean by implementation. >> Totally. Totally. So, so like >> that's what we're trying to do but it's not because I can't I don't often start it with usually enough we're
not doing it so the shift that we're struggling healthare access has one or more of those things >> everyone gets the right care at the right time in the right place like that's the goal we're moving towards like what can we move towards the goal is all >> projects are achieved or like you know
like we finish the city or is the goal like every res >> in improvement in life like >> or are now we getting to vision I think it might be something like >> is there a way that we see what this
means noticeable change >> that we're doing if we were improves if we were literally good at the most people >> what does that look like >> daily what would you what would you say that we >> I mean >> change is scary for people.
>> One of the things >> so it's also like if change is good for one person if noticeable change is good for one person it might not seem good for the other person even though it benefits the community at a great level like you build an apartment building >> someone is like well I don't like looking at that but other people and
that benefits the city as a whole because you know people are coming in and more neighbors are shopping and they're greater to where they need to be and our tax revenue goes up. It's like so much >> I mean if we're implementing which is where the engagement process goes in I
know the education you could I mean sorry I'm going to get really nerdy say the goal is >> if we implement all of this >> yes but is that is that The thing this is that is our our
sentence that's the ised >> the thing has much been shifted matters where we need to our priorities >> meet the needs and achieve our goals. This is >> and listen to what they have to say so
that we can you know create >> you say what would it look like that orientation what will be correct said that we would be in a way that could say connected
so we're not shooting over how that is how we say But an incredible >> but also what he's saying there even made a podcast about him. So what would what would that connection what would that feedback
for us can't necessarily know what it would look like what are we doing to ensure that we can >> more the goal is we're going to bring it down to their level for sure we're not using buzzwords and all that stuff too much
>> I think it's less I think it's >> we're actually doing it so we're going to prove that we're going often um >> we're willing to share like we got to do all those things. >> What are we here for? >> So that then
>> the goal is but we don't >> but that's some of the how and all that that we don't need to go into us like that's too too broad. >> No no I'm trying to find a fine line but listen we know
>> that's if we maintain quality public engagement cuz that's what we're struggling. I mean you said like maintain everyone's health engagement prove >> everyone's healthare I think >> and then one of the thing is like >> so that they are encouraged to
>> provide feedback >> what didn't happen is >> a certain class did get >> and what that would look >> a different one didn't what we do as a city would happen >> to me doing the things that like >> that um
>> how many people work for the 1100 >> 1100 people >> but if you okay into >> it's kind of closer to this for the resident and that they engage to achieve our liking achieving our plans to meet
>> part of their job is to get out and >> meet the needs >> meet >> and hear from the residents and not necessarily like target universalism right then you have the whole >> same with um you know finance department you know get engagement so that they can
get that feedback. >> Um, and so it's just it's a wide wide range. What's our neighborhood near >> you know, we may have a speed bump, but like we target universalism. Yeah. So that's what kind of what this does.
covers that we got achieve. I'm going to say the goal is achieve. Then shift to why why does that matter double a little bit why does connecting to the resident in public engagement so they can make appropriate feedback you know which is
>> I think need is the matter yeah need is which is why we're doing this decision >> right >> yes and they can see the plans to meet the needs so we can make better decision that's
the you know the second part of this but also that um I mean meat is really better that we can make better decision and that they can see >> what kind of if I could if I were to ask you like what kind of
needs like um are we thinking >> that engagement allows us what the communication from us is where they're so achieving working our plan >> actually making it
That's what this means. That's what do the thing means. You can even say like execute. >> Yeah, that's what I was saying. It sounds like what you're saying. It's stressing that >> I'm working on it for I'm describing what I'm hearing you say and then I'm going to give it back to you as
you're writing it. That's the stress. I'm changing it as we go. Right. Yeah. So the verb is again I mean I'm trying to think of a more you know I guess sexuality and engagement and education but that's kind of ultimately is what we need to do
but under multitude of ways priority strategies or something like that person of color between 15 I'm hearing you say certain ways that you communicate literally like us
more likely way of engagement, you know, and and if you're older like me, maybe it's >> because if we do that, right, we probably we know for implementing, right? We're building actual resources, right? >> But for some people that's all they they
they do anyway >> I'm using this as that is education. So we want to achieve >> what is being shifted because also that's not solely on us. Other people can do that too, but allow it to be building >> is that and doing it in a way that we have what I also love what you're
leaning on is that plan um are all we can all get out and do it. Yeah. Yeah. So activate but I'm also hearing saying don't just go do the thing but make sure you're doing
this assumes we've had the plan. >> So turn our plans into reality. >> Yeah. Oh, the goal is turn into reality where the goal is to turn our plans into reality. >> Where the tax dollars are going. >> So, can we partner it with some of this
actionable? Let's let's make sure we do have that like this is the goal. This is the goal. This is an objective. >> Maintain like this is a task. >> The goal is turn our plans. >> Turn our plans. >> What's being shifted >> plans? Okay. >> Into reality. I mean matters is
>> the why matters. I mean like >> but but maybe but yeah and also this right too >> to meet all res. >> Okay. >> No, that's great. Like >> nicely done. >> Yeah. >> Michael, how are you thinking about this? >> I should Okay.
>> I just I think it's fine. I just like you said that. >> Yeah. I think probably that's the piest we can get. Yeah. >> No, no, you did great. Like the even these two words right here are super. Again, just saying when we come to the table, let's make sure we're ready to
act and let's make sure that we do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then the action verb is Yeah. Okay. Let's go. >> Now we do this. And now we got a second one, but I'm coming to hang. >> I'm letting you know >> cuz I might give you some dissection. >> I'm walking I'm walking a fine line.
>> I am not actually contributing. >> So, so the way that the way that we're going to double check is mayor, was he invited into this thought process? Did you >> internal and external? He was invited to help and a translator of what I all so
>> what was your um what was it was say what it means and listen I think the important thing about it is because >> like our press system is much weaker >> for the tax dollar usage aren't as
>> I want to make sure what could is it possible But this so like not everybody has read the books that we've read. >> Is it possible across the board? >> We want to maintain accessible public engagement with educate and connect >> to educate and connect the community
>> or to educate connect and inform the community. >> Not everyone has talk to me that we want to achieve and plans that we want to implement and feedback we're trying to solicit. Got it. We have to give people that. So show me how you got
>> that's meant to that that's meant to see how if they say like I want this or I don't want this. >> So that's engaging in the decision. So this is what chang matters because of this get enough education to know that are are you
struggling with taxation? I I think I'm just wondering yeah that's what I'm needed informed decision >> and I would I maintain accessible public engagement the reverse of that too like >> and connect the community members their
own knowledge about correct correct like you know where people are better informed >> what do you think if we >> but I also think in terms across the board of that list. Can we
maintain accessible public engagement to educate and connect the community >> internally staff to know educate and connect the community? >> Let's do one for each. Okay. Goal internal >> maybe it's to inform, educate and connect the community. >> So a goal would be
>> I think I think what I'm struggling with is us getting into a specific area. I think internal it's about >> decision making informed decision efficiency >> figuring out. Yeah. So maybe it's to inform decision
because like when we were talking >> so when you look at those are great when you look at the maintain >> let's go break that down for a second maintain accessibility make sure that's that's an action in itself is that it needs to be accessible right this means part of accessibility there clearly not
trying to focus on accessibility from a disability but it's also you're talking access right >> it's access lower income require a different approach to public engagement because they may not have this drives a lot of ways of how we talk to our channels of
communication. No, this is still internal internally. We want clarification. We want clarity, efficiency, collabor. >> This was the first one I gave you, Lloyd. I I have to hold it in a separate head, but you have to um what we're
looking for is you also look at the >> I mean, it's collective. I think trust is good too because I got to keep the great you have to know that like there's a safe correct. you might land on that was just put out or that could be built off some. But I want you to look at what
was offered around knowing >> trouble for something when you were just like what if we did something like this. >> You shouldn't have um what is it called? You want to hold these? This is what knowing means. This is what you all wrote about that >> when you're going to process cuz it's
just on that brownie right there. It's just special. Okay. So, I want you to talk through >> some of these actually get tactical and remember why it matters. >> Oh my god. It's an armor that I
>> This is the new one. >> The new one. Okay. >> If I suggest something to you, >> this has all to do with this right here. Keep that over there. >> And I want you all to test the word. >> Okay. Like trust. So there's not a fear of retaliation. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Come
back. But there's also trust. So >> So if someone does pretend like already wrote the strategic goal for the >> That's a lot. We'll come up with a sentence and I want I want you to talk for me. The goal here some of them verb >> because this is all about sharing ideas which is education. >> The goal here would be like
>> so you're looking through you're reading and you're discussing with one another and you're checking them to and against the verb what's being shifted and why it matters. >> Products that we see that show that they're um >> so one of these goes into like tactics. Sorry. >> I guess our verb is >> too staff oriented. We need to put that aside.
>> Interdep departmentally to achieve. >> So read and talk with them to make sure well one you have a good one that Lloyd wrote and you also just wrote a really great example as well. So you got good examples of what you're looking for. >> Our goal is there are no blind spots. >> That's what he has us doing.
>> Coverage. >> Like if if we do all this stuff >> then that's what the goal is. >> So if we did our stuff then we turn our planes into reality. If we do all that this Then our goal internally is >> identify >> everyone knows everything >> communicate analyze and we got to
communicate >> but also efficiently like we don't want to get >> measuring identifi I know I know we only had these and this is just I know this is all you're working with um one layer it's like what all this means right you're talking
about knowledge And I heard you say that nature all of this to cook with this communicate kind of I just misunderstood what you're saying >> but I get it more to cook with so it
doesn't start to sound the other and so I think that when I see a measure and analyz that really kind of revolves around measurement you know how do we know how
we we're doing so I think it is >> so is it measured >> this is not >> evaluate is it assess >> so this is what how do we know >> to know when you're winning >> so we need to >> cuz that's really what it is that's >> measure the effectiveness is it is it a
word I'm just going with you I'm jumping in that's okay to brainstorm with you is is this a matter of like somehow We we take in the information. So it's our ability to our ability to educate, right? Community feedback in a way that does
this. >> This is let the community know what's going on and know why it is impact. the community educate us >> and also hear from the community about the >> impact may be >> but given them the information does that
change their feedback >> um so um you're talking >> I mean for the outward one like proactively going out >> what is it that we're trying to measure >> genuine conversations where there's that
back and forth and it's not the city's >> what are we measuring people so with This is >> I like that. Yeah. And I think this also includes like the budget form section that are more interactive. It's not a presentation. It's >> reporting on participatory budgeting.
>> We're measuring that >> but that not talking two pieces. The real piece about education that like >> the program or the policy is into school >> toddlers learning like if you say to the child it would be you know >> you're going to get hurt the best outcome
>> the best thing to do is the table instead you say can you get the off the table or do you need my help >> you know like >> that you're not talking to is like a big part of that like >> how do we >> and to stay above >> give enough of what it is we all talked
about like we Lloyd like maybe the goal is like class or three month we start we chose measure point in bringing >> out of all measure or identify >> one of our goals >> the measure is really going to get >> I'm hearing you like meet people where they're at how they're doing if we're
doing hold handics class measure the effectiveness that's all creative ways of education right around like around and how it functions so maybe we're effectiveness and impact creativity the uh educ education for the sake of more changes,
right? that a city is like you know >> all the >> so measure the effectiveness impact we know we have educated out we never the goal is we never want to get specific of city programming >> and I didn't know where to find that
>> and why it matters again it goes back to um >> which is bring to you I just feel like you're participation tax dollar you so much than it was then >> and like things are less chaotic but the amount of people who I feel like
>> so then could what we're saying is no one is winning so >> maybe it's a number thing >> accountability >> um >> this is about reaching >> well that's an object increase you know >> this is about a willingness that's
that's more about being okay with it >> decide how to measure success versus failure identify failure measuring it or not But that's kind of like pull the plug on things when things are dramatic tune in when things are less dramatable
about tuning out. >> So there's a plus end measuring tough city programming >> becomes and reporting results. >> They've lost faith and so they just tune out. They're like ah >> because if we were successful every
meeting is a loss of hard to figure out >> or to do what? >> Yeah. Because I think if we got if the goal was I never ever hear I didn't know that that means we've made our information accessible
>> which means not only did I hear you I understood it and I learned something and I could attend that meeting >> you know that then going back my way and I was understood Does that stick with you >> which implies we proactive counselor
like is that important to you? >> Would you say it that way? >> Yes, >> that you would want us to measure our success. >> I think that's um >> first >> um measure success I guess question is >> the second piece about communicating.
>> Oh, we need a verb. Okay. Um, >> are we measuring success? Meet people where they're at home and reported to the public and genuine conversations, >> but it's not only part of it. This is the big goal.
>> The meeting people is required to meet the goal of getting >> I think we would drop success to your point. We're measuring our goal. Our goal is everybody knows everybody's our goal is 60% of it villains are engaged
in some form of politician but then I'm saying I'm like wait a second because this says no one will not public know yeah and to our own you know to let the public
know but just in general we need to let public know how things are going to encourage, >> you know, definitely let them know about the positive things that we're doing. >> Is there a benefit that they get from our reporting results? Not >> drop success, Lloyd. I'm with you on
that. Drop success because we're going to report wins and losses >> cuz we're going to be honest. What is the benefit that they get by us telling >> toward their toward >> ultimately we get better
>> with the residents active active and informed participation with the residents >> to identify what's not the other piece that I think is >> that people are aware of what's going on in their community no to ensure that we
implement to ensure that to ensure >> but this is about we're not educated. >> This is about getting here. Yeah. Yeah. >> To ensure awareness ultimately they will have more confidence in their elected officials. >> Awareness is good. >> Awareness about engagement and implementation.
>> Too much too much maybe it's government active and informed participation with resident encourage active government here. Encourage active and informed participation. This we need to make
encourage strong in basically fussing. >> We're driving. >> Yeah. Active and informed participation with residents to ensure does driving make us seem too controlling because we're in the driver seat. >> No, but it's it's it's it's more active which I like.
>> Are you liking where this is going, Michael? >> Because it's supposed to be broad. This is part of This is how we This is how we know we got better at external communication >> because we got so good at it that we literally g you know honestly because
this is just the educ I'm kind of I kind of want to be encourage informed participation and active is more about engagement which is the other thing. So I would say encourage informed participation in
government to ensure awareness and access to shake the tree just to shake the tree is about whatever that engagement looks like. >> Yeah. Okay. I think it's fine still them getting to see in the government in
their participation we want to we want you want to do it. >> I think a lot of them they just they don't not that they don't want to have any part of the government. They just want to know what the folks were never told to put there >> that ultimately us and then we hire >> um >> that they can have confidence in in
>> I mean I think it captures I think it captures the event I think especially for our communities that victims of city decisions of people never feel like that's why
>> I'm like I'm not saying but I'm just saying >> drive active inform particip talking with the group and if you do that you achieve clean >> all residents feel like they were part of the solution city >> and report results
>> that's not a verb and all that stuff but this is this is a goal without a verb start to achieve that right >> manifest >> yeah residents feel >> I mean could be educate right or could
be educate provide knowledge or creative sharing so all res. >> So the first thing that I said we shouldn't do about I'm about to >> he's going to as well so you don't have to. >> So what would you what if I change this?
Would it make any difference if I change and here >> so we could >> to two? >> I thought so too. >> We could do this. We could combine these >> to inform resation doing this. So anyway, that's fine >> to make change the antitude.
He was wordsmithing. He >> getting this is how we get better. Informed participation is also to me that's not really a concern for Green. The reason I thought about it was
because we're doing we're not do >> but that does do exist like oh okay I know my tax dollars are going towards this part and also they need to know like oh I get
why we're not improving the park near me this year because we're spending the money over there but next year we'll get our park because we need to make things not >> but you are feeling more comfortable because these are the ones everyone gets a Right. No, cuz we're going to have three things. >> Oh, you already put it up there. Okay.
>> I I think drive is better than encourage. >> So, we got drive informed participation. >> Are y'all over there semantically writing? >> No, we're doing good. We're doing good. No, we're doing good. >> No semantics. We're almost done. >> I hear word choice.
>> Is important if they >> Yeah, he's going to do that, too. >> We are making sure it's an amic content. I I I'm hearing it. >> I want to tap the table. >> Do informed consent. >> Okay. >> So, all residents feel like they are
part of the solution. I know. Do we need to say the solution or like does that make sense? >> A solution. >> Who knows? But I doubt he all residents. Why did the person with the worst get the job? >> Lost the value of teaching kids to write
in cursive. I just never >> It was their value. Yes, there was value. >> If you want to read historic documents, >> there's value. There's discipline that comes with that. >> That's true. >> Part of the solution. >> When I was in ninth grade, I got sent down. >> Beautiful. All right. And let me get
what we had as an original and get all the little cooking ingredients. And that's part of why you become an adult and you have to go to work. Somebody needs to read something that you're writing. Clear clear your plate for you. also get that draw creativity >> for internal >> and you need to leave a note for the
kids to tell them what to do and they need to be able to read it. There's a practical application >> um to internal build networks >> periodh. Yeah. or just build
build networks that encourage and um or that support or that when you when you make something go to uh that um foster >> um
collaboration and efficiency collaboration, efficiency and trust networks because that in if you build networks that assumes accessibility of communication to foster certainly clarity, efficiency and collaboration
>> which includes trust. >> Includes trust. Yes. >> Uh one's left too. That's why I'm on his left side. >> For too long the left side has gotten >> I know. Now you guys are top of the charts. >> Gotten a bad rap.
Okay, we're >> not going to say get better at internal external communication. This is All right. >> All right. Bring Sam back. >> All right, Sam.
>> Ready to hang out? >> All right. Do me a favor. Come up. Come up. Come up this way. >> All right. So, we got a couple of them. And if we want ingredients, I always say we want good thing, we need to kind of pressure test it. So, uh, what I want to do is actually pressure test it to three different questions that kind of help us
kind of go through. Um, so there is an outcome test. There's three different tests. Uh, there's an outcome test and I'm going kind of read that and we're going to use we're going to take your statements and we're going to run them through this pressure test. >> Outcome test. The question is, would people experience something meaningful meaningfully different >> from your statements? Okay. And we're
going to run it through the pressure test. Um, and then we'll determine is it something that's ready? Uh, not perfect because that's going to require comms. We have a whole department for that. Um, however, um, or something we want to refine slightly to not get stuff right as well. So, we'll take each statement and we're going to ask ourselves, does
it go does it meet the outcome test, which is would people experience something meaningfully different from this statement? Second outcome test is crosscutting test. Okay? And we we we want to make it pass the test. Is could more than one strategic outcome could it advance more than one strategic outcome?
That's important. uh could more than one strategic outcome advance by one of these statements as well. Very very important. And then third is the governing test. The governing test is could this help us say no to misaligned work. >> Could it actually help us do that? So with uh I want to talk through some of
the themes. So some of the ingredients you all talked about, I'm going to want to reverse engineer it and then talk about uh Jen's theming and then kind of read some of the statements. I might need a little bit of help. I saw some handwriting a little bit. Um, but some of the ingredients you all cooked with when I said across all outcome areas,
this city needs to feel secure, engage, go out to the community for feedback and to clarify some of the ingredients. The theme around this was to say what it means and to listen to what's said. It's like awesome. What would a goal look like to kind of achieve achieve this?
Um, maintain accessible public engagement to educate to con to educate and connect the community to inform decision-making. I'll read it again. I apologize on me, not you. That's um I hope I'm find it. So, uh in order to achieve this, we're looking at
maintaining accessible public engagement to educate and connect the community to informed decision-m by doing that meets the theme. These ingredients fall in there. Um and then we'll read them and then we're going to take them to the test for a moment. Ingredients create
>> driving >> driving job wage. You remembered that. Create driving job wages. Build residence. implement, find funding. Um the theme was do the thing, do the thing. And then we looked at uh turn our plans into reality to meet all residents needs. Um and there's depths in depth in
these. So for those listening and for those actually that did the work, um there's a lot of strategic conversations that went into taking something so big, so meaningful, and synthesizing it into 20 words. That's a skill in itself to do. Um you also joined the comm's team. We might be hiring them. Um, so also
moving into the ingredients, uh, figure out how to measure progress, measure impacts across different economic classes, accept accountability, be willing to measure progress, uh, to pull the plug on things that aren't working. Uh, decide how to measure success versus failure. The theme in there was to know
when we're winning, to be able to know like when we're winning, where we're going, how we're getting there. Like, let's know we're winning. Uh the written kind of goal for that uh would be to measure the effectiveness and impact of city programming and report results to inform residents to build confidence in
government. I'll read it again. Again, we have a comm uh measure the effectiveness and impact of city programming and report results to inform residents to build confidence in government. And we're ultimately looking at uh
remember the I'm going to kind of go back that they're having a verb what's being shifted and a why it matters. Okay. So this was an interesting one and um y'all did your magic with making this thing happen. So the educate was what popped up as an ingredient but ultimately
sitting with it looking at there was like there was internal and external kind of communication and education to take place. So this team decided to like be extra special and do one for in and one for out. So by the way they did more than you know. Um so your your around
getting better uh the theme of getting better um from internal and external communication. One of the goal would be to do that from an out lens. Right. This is out first. Um >> from the city to the community back external. Yeah. >> City to the community and back two way. Right. Two way. >> Got it. Okay. to drive informed
participation so all residents feel like they were part of its solution or part of the solution and this is to the city and back like this kind of two-way right >> anything coming out or into the building >> got it is to our goal would be to drive informed participation so all residents
feel like they were part of the solution >> and that can I expand on that a little bit so the the kind of big key word there is informed participation we want people to when they give feedback back to know the factors that went into what they're being asked and also the
potential outcomes of it. So it's less of a gut reaction but actually oh I have like learned something throughout this process so when I say I want to vote for that or vote against that there's a little more >> to it. Um and then also
um once people understand where the city's coming from or if people have lived experience and they can respond with more information knowing what we're looking for but also >> um their their own um there's a chance
for them to to >> use their lived experience in the context of what we're sharing and also provide lived experience that changes the context of what we're sharing. What's really awesome about you to in order to achieve that, in order to even work on that goal, we need to work like on this goal to be able to know what we're talking about, measure things, track things in order to be able to
inform the the community. If we don't know, we can't say it or we pretend like we know. It's a whole it's a whole mess, right? It's a whole >> So I just to clarify when you So all residents feel like the >> um part of it. So I don't part of that.
This makes me feel like >> talking about the feeling part the feeling word. I I hear what you're saying. So I I think what we were trying to go for there, the examples that we were talking about is like um >> Are you hung up on the words by the way? I just
>> No, but it's a good conversation. It's a good question. It's a good question. >> No, it is a good question. It's a good question. >> It's part of why we are all at large and not in division. So it's like that taxpayer in Greenbryer feels like they're part of the solution for the redevelopment of Kindlewood while the
redevelopment of Kindlewood folks understand why there needs to be a speed bump in a Green Bryer street. So it's >> and it's it's a feel or anything. It's a broader community connection. >> Yeah. But what we're not hearing in that feeling is I hear where you're going. It's like to ensure it's not
manipulation, right? To ensure that it is like I am >> an outcome that person didn't want. >> Yeah. But I felt like the way you went about engaging. >> Yeah, I got you. >> Yeah. Part of part of it too is the conversation around particularly communities that have been victims of
city decisions. >> How do you ensure they feel things were done with them, not to them? >> Yeah. Makes sense. >> Yeah. The informed is going both ways. We're getting informed from your deep knowledge. You're getting informed from our knowledge. And then that decision- making we were >> we are never going to hear again. I
didn't know that was going to happen. >> Yep. And one of the implied things in that that we had written down to was trust building. >> Sure. That's what I was thinking about the feeling part at the end of the day. Um the person that's going through this process gets to determine whatever feeling they want. Like they get to decide in their rolodex of emotions which one they want to attribute and
they might feel as a part. They might choose trust. You know the feeling they're wrapped around trust. Um but at the end of the day we need you to know you're a part of >> and I think I want to reiterate what Jen just said like loud from the back of the room which is >> say loud from the back. I don't want people to feel like they said, "Oh, I
didn't know about that." >> You brought me along. Yeah. Yeah. Thank Yeah. And then >> you have to know the project and measure. >> Yeah. >> So, what I'm hopefully hear you what I hope that you're hearing in the high level of this is so much depth >> underneath of like manual make us to
have a community feel like there's a lot that's going to have to take place under it. But that's our goal. That's what we're really going for, right? Um, so the in education, describe the in education for us in the room in the back. So this this came out of this is a little bit of organizational excellence.
It also came out of our discussion on Monday about the NDS project and how all the different departments are going to be working together on facilitating the storm water adjustment. So it's making sure that internally there's networks. We wrote networks of communication to
foster clarity, efficiency and collaboration. So that's >> great >> top down education about like these are your tasks and this is why but also cross departmental lateral communication and education so people know oh I have a question this is who I'm going to go to
or oh I know this person's working on that I just had an idea let me go chat about how we can >> whatever so it's it's um >> transparency about the big picture goals what we're working towards so if people notice oh we've got a surplus here what if we spend it on this because I know
that that's a goal we have for whatever, but also knowing >> where to um the the transparency of knowing where >> to find answers and offer solutions. >> Love it. So, I mean, we're talking >> a lot more than 20 words. >> No, but it's this isn't more than what
you said, >> which I know you are good at that, >> but this is great. Build networks and communication to foster clarity, efficiency, and collaboration. Like that's high. And we went to the next level. It's like how do we do that strategically? Now, we're going to have a long weekl long conversation, but that's what we're going for. And then
the impact of that is is great. All right. What I want to do is pressure test these. There are some rules when we go through the pressure test. Okay. Um, we're going to answer briefly. And there is a it isn't about it isn't getting caught in the words or semantics. It's making the choice to refine the language or it's it's ready enough to go cook with. Okay. That's that's what we're
going to do. I'm going to bring these. We're going to read through one more time. Do we Let me ask you, when I'm bringing them down, do we do you need to reference these while we go down there? Good. All right. Cool. Let's bring it down. Again, there's no there's no perfection thing. I'm a wall person. So, if I
could, I'd use the whole wall. So, um All right. Pressure test. Um from an outcome test, this is and let me ask you um team team here. Do we need to hear these in any order like Okay, cool. >> All right. So, outcome test. Um would people experience something meaningfully
different from this meaningfully different? Right. So, we're thinking you'll have tons of history, tons of lived experience. We're not we're we're hopefully looking the needle to move in ways it hasn't, you know, in ways we've been hoping for. So meaningfully different. Um if we to focus on a
strategic goal of to build networks of communication to foster clarity, efficiency, and collaboration, would people experience something meaningfully different if we made that happen? >> I hope I hope so. >> Yeah. Yep. Across the board. Yep. But
but also acknowledging that we're not this is >> we're not starting from scratch on this. I know it's already something that's >> been in the works. But for example, when um you know the quick builds team wants to do something on a street, the repaving team should be collaborating with them about
>> and the thing none of this is new because in your strategic alchemy are you're doing the work like the work is happening. It's literally happening. Um we just wanted to go one level. So yeah, nothing this is probably nothing new, but this is taking all of where the work is happening and putting it into some things we really are trying. That's why
we're doing it. The kind of why we're doing it is to build networks of communication that foster clarity, efficiency, and collaboration. We will still work on that and still build after that. Um what about cross cutting? Could more than one strategic outcome area advance this? So to do this, going back
to kind of what you had mentioned, um when you look at those strategic outcome areas where the work is happening, could several of those, you might need to grab that if need be. You have them memorized, but could several of those working in those areas, the strategic outcome areas, could several of those make this happen? >> Yeah,
>> it almost would require that, right? It would almost have to like, you know, uh which is great. When something is required, that means there's no like exit, but like it's only one door, right? Um all right, going to the governing test, right? Um, could this help us say no to misaligned work? Now,
I hope when we read the writings like build networks of communication to foster clarity, efficiency, and collaboration. If we're going after that, would that help us say no to things? We'll be able to spot and identify things that are the opposite of this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Maybe decisions or postures or avenues
like, man, that's not doing that. And we'd be able to like hold that in front of us a little easier. >> Yes. It's clear. >> Yeah. clear enough to help us at least. Yep. All right, let's put in the red. Um, >> let's actually
>> So, let's go into turn plans into reality to meet all residents needs. >> Would people experience something meaningfully different from that? >> Yes. >> Are you sure? No, I'm kidding. Right. Absolutely. This one's plain. I would agree. What about crosscutting? Could more than one strategic outcome area make this happen?
>> Okay. If and if by any chance you're like, you know what, that really seems to lean toward one or something like that. Let's talk that out, you know, as well because the goal is that we don't want it to lean toward one. We need several of the work that we're already doing to make this thing happen. Um the governing test, could this help us say no to misaligned work? If we turn plans,
uh like you said, assuming we have plans, right, into reality, doing the work, executing all those things so all residents, um meet all $2 million all residents needs. If we're going after this, could this help us say no to misaligned work? >> Yeah.
>> I mean, you would have to assume you already said no. >> Or if something's coming into it, right? Let's just say there's a new idea or a new suggestion or a new thing that comes. Could we use this as a measuring stick of if we should or shouldn't. >> I don't I'm not sure I see. Okay. >> That doesn't that doesn't
>> What What's interesting I think you pointed this out, too. I think when you said this one, it was without the verb a little bit, right? No, no, no. That That was a different one. I apologize. Yeah. So, let's talk it out. Let's let's put it here. We might do some refining of that. That's cool. Um, all right. You have another one which is to drive informed participation so all residents
feel like they were a part of solutions. Would people feel uh would people experience something meaningfully different if we achieved if we drove in in for more informed participation so all residents feel like they were a part of the solution? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Cross cutting test. Could more than one strategic outcome advance this? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What about the governing test? Could this help us say no to misaligned work? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because >> we're asking a lot of who's in the room, right? We're asking a lot of who's
there, who we talk to. >> What it does is so there's two ways of being in governance, right? There's the leadership and there's the responsiveness. >> So you can >> that's that education in and out. >> You can educate people to help lead where it's like this is where I would like to go. come with me. And then
there's the responsiveness of where do you all want to go? I'll do that. >> And you have to mix both of those. And so I think that's where the education part >> Yeah. >> does straddle. >> Yep. And and it's double check. It takes several of these things to work to make this happen. >> Okay. So yeah, let's talk say could this
help us say no to misaligned work. What is aligned work? You're saying the >> this is the this is the work we're align like we would align around going after this. And so if if strategies, plans, ideas came and it was the opposite of this, wouldn't we be able to spot it and say no? To say, "Hey, no, no, no, no.
That way of doing work is not going after this." Could we spot it and say no? >> Perhaps. >> Okay. Sorry. >> And the the concern that I've had over the last six years doing this is with mission creeped. >> Okay.
>> And there's so many things that they're great ideas. They further the human condition. Yeah, >> but the question is should the city be doing it? And it's very rare that the city has said no. >> And the result is we end up I mean at
least one result I suppose is we end up with nine priority it is instead of four or five. >> Yeah. >> But we end up with >> I just want to give you a hug for saying that out loud. >> I said it two years ago. Nobody listen. Well, let let me read it let me read it out loud so we can just hear it too in a
sense of to I want to keep asking this question until like we decide here but I like where you're going with this that other things can creep up and that's and that's for all of these actually you know the mission creep as well which is why this is such an important question when we write it that we're striving to
drive informed participation so all residents feel like they were a part of solutions the solutions that's what we're going after and maybe aligning around and if something came against that would we be able to say no if it doesn't if if someone's talking about an
idea that doesn't help inform partic like participation a strategy doesn't help inform participation and we're not maybe all residents feel like they were a part of would we be able to say that's not going after this and and maybe get back on track because sometimes mission creep comes
and it takes us on a bit of a detour it's like hey all residents or >> but I don't know it's like we're using we're trying to use a rubric for all things to do like that's where I'm having a hard time with it. Like >> turning turning our plans into reality
can't answer could this help us say no to misaligning work. It's already in action. Like so I'm having a hard time with trying not to get in the no trap that keeps us down. Like >> that rubric of saying no doesn't driving for participation helps us
>> learn what is misaligned for the for residents. I think the answer to this could be like for this one in particular, it would be if someone at the city was like, "Let's not do a survey." We're like, "No, no, no. We're trying to drive engagement." So, it
prevents us from misaligned work, which is not doing the survey. >> It lets you ask questions of who did you go talk to? Who did you get information from? Right. >> It's not whether or not the parking garage gets filled. It's how do we comm. >> So, that's why it's misaligned work like doing that. tell you what is aligned at
work. >> So what I'm hearing is >> it does. >> So when you hear about participation and I heard that there's a certain group in the community that did not get to participate in something, >> right? Like I mean ultimately we didn't ask a particular group in the community >> given hypothetical. Yes. >> That that that lets us know it didn't
because we're saying we're striving for participation and I hear those three groups left out. That's not all participation. Let's not let's get back on track. Right. Or if when residents are communicating that they're not feeling like they were part of the solution around this particular strategy or whatever it may be, we can hear that
and say, "Well, what was it about that didn't feel like part of the solution?" Well, the way that this was communicated, it's okay. Let's get better at that to make sure we stay aligned with making sure you feel that you were a part of the solution. >> Is it fair to say that the aligned work that you're talking about in the governing tests are these things?
>> Yeah, I think it's that when I'm confused. I thought you meant aligned work with what what we said we were going to do in the strategies. You mean aligned work of this >> correct? Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. >> Which natural be the ready? Yeah.
>> Yeah. Right now we're talking we're getting we're allowing ourselves to get a little bit into words a little bit. No, but on purpose like in this test particularly. So ready. Let's just throw it up there. Right. Again, if you find yourself getting into like but the strategy and that experience and that situation, we get to define that a little a little later. Like even when it
comes to like defining plans like how would you know that someone does have a plan or doesn't have a plan that's coming to you with an idea whatever you get to define that. It's like presenting us a plan looks like this and if we didn't get that that's not the plan that's not going to help us turn into reality. There's a lot of missing
gaps in that please refine the plan. Right? We we'll get to that in a moment. Um outcome test. Maintain accessible public engagement to educate and communic and connect the community to informed decisions decision-m. Maintain
accessible public engagement to educate and connect the community to informed decision- making. >> Would people experience something meaningfully different if we did that? >> Do more of that? >> Yeah. Want to make sure >> more maintenance, >> right? Maintain it. Let's word maintain it, right? To maintain it, right?
>> Um cross cutting. Could one um one more could more than one strategic outcome area advance this? >> Yeah. >> When you think about that list, more than one of those could advance this. >> Could if we follow this and stay the course and this is our north star, could
it help us say no to things? >> Yeah, it's the same. I think I mean like since we're deriving all of these from the themes and we're seeing if they reflect the themes then I think yes is probably going to be the answer to all of that. >> I don't want to do I just want to test them like I want to actually test to it again. Yeah.
>> I don't want to assume I don't want LIKE THAT'S GREAT WE'RE DONE. I WANT TO actually put them in and get a little deeper into let's test them and let's say we did like let's say we tested them >> and he's testing your comfort. >> We'll get to that. I mean those are those those are those are similar
because education is engagement >> and education is a type of engagement whereas engagement is the whole shebang. >> Good distinction >> outcome test for measure the effectiveness and impact of
city programming and report results to inform residents to build confidence in government. Again, we have a comm team, but to measure the effectiveness of impact of city programming and report results to inform residents to build
confidence in government. Would people experience something meaningful if we strive for that? Continue to strive, maintain striving for that. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. Require that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because the measurements
will determine Yes. It is the confidence part, but there's also the measure where our investments are going. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Reporting is telling everybody >> and the report. Yeah. >> The report part is really >> if the reporting says this was a bad investment, we can say, okay, let's say no to >> no in that area.
>> Okay. Um I want to just take this one again and see what we think. Um >> yeah. Yes. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yep. Okay. Okay, I have one last question kind of come over here. This is around hope and
commit. And so this is about like agreement on things. I have a see if you would hold tightly to some of these, but here's my question around individual endorsement. Um, and I just want you to point to them, okay? As I want to tally anything, but my question to you is there. Uh, there's no discussion, no explanation, but which of these would
you be comfortable defending publicly as a city's direction? I want you to come and read them. I want you to come and and sit with them for a moment and just let him sit with you. Let them sit with your responsibility. Let them sit with the level of thought and care.
Let them sit with the things that are important to you. Let them sit through the pressure test that we just went through those questions. Um but my question is which of these and again this is the reason we're not marking tallying anything. I just want you to sit with that point at least. Um >> will you take one? >> It could be a couple. It could be a
couple. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. But which of these uh would you be comfortable defending publicly in uh as the city's direction? This is not a trick question. This is around literally and and and if and if
so, we should take shots after this. Um, but but what I'm ultimately wanting you to do is you created something really beautiful and meaningful and it's to be able to to commit and be able to say like, you know what, I will just like this guy's button right there that's holding tight to his shirt that you would hold tight to it and you will hold
and commit to it. Like this is important to me and I am willing to defend it publicly as a city's direction. Take a second and just point go up and and just point to the ones. >> Can we soften it way to which is great. Um,
>> they're all quite denouncable. >> Yeah, >> they're all beautiful. Okay. And they all grab you. They're all They inspire you. They inspire your work. They in like they speak to you as a why you did took this job to begin with and and like it's important to you, right? That's ultimately what I'm This is just a commitment conversation. Like, you know
what? I could commit to those. >> But just just for the sake of argument, aren't all of them trying to do this? >> Sure. Yeah. I mean, we don't need to inform people or build networks or measure effectiveness. So, we're not going to turn anything into reality. >> Sure.
>> So, we're all willing to stand by wanting to turn our plans into reality, I think. >> Yeah. >> And these are on the way to make >> these are on the way to that. >> Yeah. And and our strategic outcomes fall underneath these in a way. They we need our strategic outcome areas to make this thing kind of happen,
>> right? >> I mean, our strategic outcomes are the outcomes. >> So, we both Yeah, >> they're not objectives or strategies. >> So like they deliver this and this is also why you do those as well. Like you can place them wherever you want. Like
you can actually like place them wherever you want visually. >> Um I got one more kind of whole question. >> Uh if staff if staff use these uh goals to guide decision tomorrow, would the city be moving in the right direction? If they use these, we're not like but if we if if a staff took this away and
started leading their team and leading their decisions and leading their strategies, would the city be moving in the right direction? Yeah, >> I think it's fair to say that if these were adopted as opposed to their opposites, yes, >> the my problem with this whole exercise
has been said, would the city be moving in the right direction? We should be moving in many different directions at the same time. There is no the right direction. >> And so our need is opposed to
>> Yeah. We don't want to get those. >> Yeah. We don't want to get good at those semantics. We don't we don't want those to drive our work. Um these are these are directions that you would say I would hope any employee would grab all these and let it and let it drive their thinking their valuing and their working.
>> Yeah. >> Right. I think that's what we're ultimately saying is that if a city anyone that's even employed here grabbed one of these and said, "Man, if you allowed this to drive your thinking, you're valuing and you're doing and your work, we're in a good place. We're in a good place." Or if you're already doing
that and you took that and you measured it to these, we're in a good place. Would you be able to say that? >> Yeah. >> Um, all right. Come have a seat. >> Look, you pointed out a couple things I loved. Lloyd back there was like, you know what? At this point, we're getting caught in semantics. You were like
pointing out the things. I love it. You got you're getting good at spotting those things that might like get us stuck or derail us. Um I think you're getting better at at seeing those. Let me just tell you what you did today. Um so, uh you transformed war strategic outcome areas into durable strategic goals that can guide an entire organization. Uh you answered that
question at the very end that if any employee um that received a a city of Charlottville check grabbed one of these, it would guide them. Uh you did that today. uh you align five independent governing perspectives into a shared directional lens. Um I think Natalie was trying to speed us up at at
the back and was like LOOK WE AGREE TO ALL THOSE LIKE we're they do the thing like they absolutely do the thing. Um he took five independent governing perspectives and and created shared directional lenses. Uh you stress tested language to ensure it holds across multiple departments
priorities and pressures. We stress test it. Not only do we create creating like we're good. It's like no, let's test it. Let's ask ourselves three other strategic questions to ensure confidence, commitment to know why we came up with that. Not just that it sounds good, it is, but you you pressure
tested, which you just went a letter a level a level deeper. Um, you produce a set of goals that could influence hundreds of daily decisions citywide. I literally asked, "Can I take one of those and hand them to a lead team or hand them or a CMO and let them use that
to drive their thinking, their value, and their work?" And he said, "Yes." And you practice governing on a level of direction of not just delivery where council leadership matters most. Council leadership is what we're talking about. Not like getting to the strategy,
but in council leadership, it matters that you can set direction like that. that you can create something that I could say could all could multiple strategic outcome areas influence that you're like yuck or you can create something that I could say can I get 12 departments right now to follow that and let that drive their strategies and you
say yes that's your leadership that's what you designed to do and and you did that today you created some things that could literally um drive hundreds of daily decisions so I think um and you did it in about
two hours but um I You know, we should celebrate that. It was a lot. Can you celebrate? I know you feel tired. Like, that's pretty serious. Um, we didn't have that um 120 minutes ago. We didn't have that. Uh, but you did it about, >> you know, so hopefully Lloyd, when it
came to the question of what would it look like if city council use human center design to better clarify goals that help influence priorities, decision making, and direction, it would look like those over there on the wall. It would look like those things on that wall help influence prioritization,
decision making, and direction. How else um is frame council messaging to the community more clearly and consistently. You can we have a whole comms team and it's like, hey, write messaging around those. It can actually help you with that. Help staff align work across departments
to share direction. help inform budget conversations, work planning, and priority setting. Reduce ambiguity when council perspectives differ from providing a shared directional lens. I say when there is difference, plot that in the middle.
when there's difference of I see we get caught up with words in a lot but when there's difference that might divide just make sure we do have something in the room also that we set align in addition to and that helps navigate the conversation of difference.
Importantly this work does not replace strategic outcome areas or existing plans. It strengthens them by adding the missing layer of directional clarity that staff can plan against and connect to directional clarity that can be planned against and connected to. I
think the reason why it was a little easier for all of you to align is we all created something that we connect to and maybe in in our hearts we did but this isn't a heart just a heart job. This is a strategy implementation. Bring something to life. Have direction. And
you have five things up there that you all connect to and align around. Bring them into the conversation often. Um basically clarify your direction and can be carried through. Uh you all have already have direction. You have things that are important to you. Those help
ensure that it's carried through. that is carried through to departments to work to impact the thing that is your intention of why you're here and the changes you want to make those help ensure that it gets uh from your seat into everyone else and people can start to asking
themselves that in other departments how do I do that how do I make sure I'm staying the course saying yes to that saying no to things that differ but you provided direction the lighthouse a needed one you should actually celebrate some for that um all right two things for you go Um,
with the outcome there, I want to ask you high level. Um, what is something you respect about what you created? What is something you understand about what you created? Uh, and what's something you value about what you all created today? Just pick one up there. If it's an
understanding, respect or a value, you can throw it out. But from what you all created, what's something you understand? It was done in a collaborative um atmosphere environment. >> Somebody else understand about what you
created over there. >> What do you think? >> We're all operating in the same reality, >> which shouldn't sound I know there's other councils and other collaborative groups and other political
factions and other people who are not operating in the reality we are operating under and it makes it easier to collaborate and be compassionate when we uh are operating in our current reality. >> It's very you're not wrong. You're absolutely not wrong. Like you are
operating what is understood about today is that we're operating in the same reality. That's it's a powerful realization and to steward that well. By the way, that's a relationship we all have with one another. I would steward that well because and you're not wrong. That is absolutely not the case in other places. Um super well. Uh what about
something you respect about what you created over there and again you're reflecting back on how this thing could be used and all of those things. Um what's some of you respect about what you created? >> Um that we kept the the citizen, the public at the forefront
>> in pretty much all of our discussions. >> Like their names or their presence is mentioned in every single one of those. >> It's what we're here for. >> Yeah. >> And it showed up in our in our in our outcome like you as well. Jen, what do you think? What is something you respect
about what you all created back there? And I just want to emphasize like that didn't exist to happen before today. So, you created something Um that we um I respect the process
that produced the sting. >> What's something value about what you all have over there? These kind of directional lighouses. What's something value about those? um that they're a good starting point to
get very clear and um very concrete and they are meaningful and show our intention to
do the best work we can. I think what's also something I can say that I'm not is that I could take one of those and think about how that could be carried through to about probably 150 employees and they would understand it. >> I don't I don't I don't know if I don't know if they could I need some cleaning but yeah we clean it up
>> with with the help of a department. I think I would love to test that. I would love to say if we took that and message it down and up and cross like could people see themselves in that book? Could someone look at their daily duties and say I do that >> and I influence them >> as a guiding as guiding principles.
>> Correct. Absolutely. As as a north star without the headlights on at night you are going off a rail. So the idea is that we have we gave them a light to say I can look at my daily things and I impact and and I can I can link it up to that. I think that's super valuable.
All right. Last thing. Um last time we were together uh we talked about these tensions trade-offs and opportunities last time we were together. And I want to bring that back up to you for a second. This is what they mean. Attention is a pool between competing needs, values, priorities coexist required through thoughtful balance, trade-offs, the choice of prioritizing one thing over another, knowing
something is gained as something is given up. Opportunity a possibility that emerges for growth, improvement, or meaningful impact often through challenge and change. Do you believe that those will produce tensions, trade-offs, and opportunities? >> Definitely. Yeah.
>> As long as you believe it, I'm down. That's cool. Makes sense. Like look by choosing some direction like that because we talked about no work over there that could it help us say no to some things um that's going to create some tension some trade-offs and opportunities. Last time we talked and again you can use this as a cycle but it's important that in every decision
you actually consider these three things. Um and very similar to like Josh we all align around these like you have a test take one of those and ask yourself what is the tension it produces? What's the trade-off? What's the opportunity that it produces? Know it so you can actually speak to it and
inform around it. um what they help you do is create a decision record. Last time we were together, we did something like this. And so impact area, you can replace that with one of those and then ask yourselves to achieve this um uh we can anticipate pulls and
stretching in the areas of tension by choosing that as a north star. By choosing that as a north star, uh we can also understand by doing it this way, we're prioritizing blank over blank. By also choosing as a north star um we
can also understand that however these challenges and changes have revealed an opportunity in those answer these questions and you have even more emphasis of how to talk about that and speak to it. So we decided and we know because our decision record why'
you make that decision today hopefully to say look we came up with a lot of ingredients we those things out we've thought through some tensions some trade-offs and opportunities of why those five aligned areas are important to us and I'd like to tell you what those tensions are
we are not blinded to the trade-offs that it's going to that's going to have to create but we'd love to speak to it and educate around it and all the other goals right and inform the community around what those are but also want to tell you about the opportunity community that we've been thinking about and let me explain that to you because my goal is to bring you along and make sure that
you you're educated and you hear this. Uh you would probably need to do some of this work in order to help achieve some of those communicate to the community, talk to the investors and educate them. Um so decision setting to help inform direction setting. Um my recommendation is to build a decision record to help
with each one of those. That's my recommendation is that you take those and say can we ask ourselves what tension and opportunities come from each one of those? Can we do it together next time we get together? Can we not just settle that we have those, but can we go into like why we have those and and let's really arm ourselves as a council
with being able to speak to the tensions, trade-offs, and opportunities of each one of those. I would recommend you do that. Um, and then continue to be clear, concise, actionable, and measurable as well. Know more about the things you decide. That's really, really important, especially in rooms like this. Um, know more of why what you
understand, respect, and value about what you did today so you can go and talk about it. know more about the tensions, trade-offs, and opportunity of each of those so you can go and talk about it. Um, and I just want you to know the partnerships in the organization of how we do our work. Um, I want to kind of
inform you of what we've done. Even though these are not how we work, we've done something with the organizational excellence. Uh, we decided to take it and put it into practice and just kind of showing you a highlight a little bit of what we've done inside the city manager's office. Uh, was what what what does organizational excellence actually look like?
What does it actually look like in practice? What outcomes do those practices produce? What skill is actually required to do that? And so we did that inside the city manager's office looking at organizational excellence has a series of values attached to them. There are some uh practices that lead to certain outcomes
and those outcomes develop certain skills. Skill set is very very important uh when it comes to executing anything. So we took organizational excellence because it is a how one works. But how do you do it? I've asked a lot of people that question and there's a
million different answers. Um, but it's really important if you want to do it, do it often, do it consistently and do it with impact that we understand the practices, outcomes, and skills. So, we did that in the city manager's office. Just letting you know, we took your organizational excellence northstar and decided to do something with it. And I remember asking the question, that's
awesome that council kind of has that there. What's that mean? Like, what's it look like in daily behavior? What's it look like? How do you actually perform organizational excellence? And how do you know it's working? What skills required to do it? Ask a lot
of questions. A lot of questions that ultimately people are like, can't you just accept the one bumper sticker phrase, man? Can you just be okay with that? My answer is no. I'm always going to ask you how you do it. How do you know you did it well? Who's it impact? So, we took organizational excellence
and developed a level of practices, outcomes, and skills. Um, so that was cool. We also met with the lead team and had a conversation with this guy in front of the lead team uh talking a lot about what was lead team. Raise your hand if you're in there. Yep. Awesome. Lead team was actually in there. Uh they
got to hear us interview Sam on talking about what was uh what is, what could be, and what's next. And this is something we told the lead team uh we spoke. We said when you endure a process, there are always going to be many parts that you enjoy and many parts that you don't. The one thing that is required through it all though is a
purpose behind it. When you endure a process, there are always going to be many parts that you enjoy and many parts that you don't. The one thing that's required, though, is a purpose behind why you're doing it. So, I know you feel like this. My hope
for you is this uh is that my hope is that you leave this workshop with greater confidence and purpose in what you're leading toward. Now, so my goal was to give to eventually have you have those that you could become more confident and you have more purpose in
what you're leading toward. And maybe you're like, I did Joshua. I had I had nine of these and at the beginning I told you it was a lot and all these other things, but I I wanted just to take you one level higher to give you those to give you those over there and that you have even more confidence and more
purpose connect to what you're leading. That is my hope. That is um what I got for you. Um we did it together. Thank you for coming alongside. I know that wasn't easy. Uh absolutely not easy. Um but what I love about it is we're all coming from the same reality. We all chose it together. We all aligned. We
all took those and ran through them. Outcome tests, crosscutting tests, governing tests. We all see the community impact in all of those. Uh there was a It requires a lot of work to get so aligned. Um so I'm grateful and I appreciate you all letting me do this with you. So that's what I got for you. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> All right. >> Yep. >> Thank you, Josh. So, that should have felt like therapy. >> Is that what it felt like? >> It should have. >> Um, I I like the fact that he did add the part at the end. I did not know he
was going to share with you what we have done with Josh over the past few months in the city manager's office and how it even connects to this. But I'm appreciative of just the opportunity to connect the work that we've been doing with him as well has really been first starting with your nine strategic
outcome areas and picking organizational excellence out of the middle and saying that's where we need to focus first. So we've spent the past eight months or so uh diving into that and it is what has led to the reorganization of the office.
It is how I made the decisions on what it was that I was going to do in allocating resources, creating and establishing positions that were going to address things that we were doing, not doing, and could be doing better. Uh, and in all of that, it was always with this northern star of what you all
had on that list of organizational excellence is what you wanted to see coming out of this organization. It has also led to the desire to go beyond just the city manager's office and work with the lead team which is why he did that true live
therapy session with me. Um it's one of the most uncomfortable things I have ever done because I was truly in what I would consider a vulnerable state being honest and answering every question he posed to me and he did not tell me all the questions in advance. So, I had to deal with the fact that all of them were
looking at me when he asked the question, looking to see what that answer was. All of that was important to me because it continued to connect me to what you had as the vision for what you want to see out of this organization, but also what it was important for me to be able to connect to this team and how we're going to be doing the work to make
sure that we deliver for this community. Uh, so I've appreciated what it has felt like even though it has felt like therapy. as we bring new people into the team. They are being in introduced to it as well. Evan uh Steve has already been through part of the gauntlet with uh
Josh Evan will be going through it shortly and when Roman gets here next month, he too will join in that effort because we want to make sure that everybody is in that same place. We're going back to the lead team. So, we've told them that, hey, take a look at this. Here's an introductory of this in
November, but we're coming back in the spring and there'll be more. We'll go deeper. And then they too will be taking it a layer down into their various departments and working with their teams as well. So this is not something that we are just touching. This is something that we're digging into. We're going way
below the surface and organizational excellence is something that we're going to live out. It's not just a term that we use. So thank you Josh. Appreciate what you have done. Appreciate what you have done here. I want to also just kind of tie up the why it was important for
you to be able to take us a level above is because I can admit to you that there was a struggle for the team and appreciating the nine outcome areas and how to attach themselves to it. how to connect to that, how to then be able to feel like they're living it out and see
themselves in it because it was very very specific in some instances that some of the various departments and teams could not necessarily say where I see myself. So what we wanted to make sure that we tried to do and as I talked to Josh about what might we do a little bit differently and he said how about
another level. So, what we're doing is we are wrapping up the first three-year strategic plan based on those nine priority areas. Uh, and we're going to have that coming to you in the spring and that is meant to just basically say FY23 2425 is done. Here's the strategic
results on that work. But a new five-year plan will result and we're not asking you to revisit those non uh strategic outcome areas because we believe that you are very passionate about them as you have demonstrated that you want to leave them alone. Uh and we
don't want to necessarily move beyond that. The goal will be we will check in with you to see if there is a reason to change anything at something. Uh, but the goal would be to produce a five-year plan. And the expectation, as I'm being told, is that we will deliver that to you in January. January 27. You'll have
a five-year plan, but that 5-year plan will actually reflect beginning July 1st, 26 because that's fiscal year 27. >> So, is it going to be are we are we just going to receive it or we going to >> It's going to be another >> We'll find a way to pull you into it.
We're trying to figure that out. um that strategy officer position that I added to the team. We just interviewed this week and hope to be getting someone to say yes to it and get them here and then they will lead that process uh and we'll find ways to plug you into it. But the goal was that we will have a new
five-year plan for this team to then be able to say these are our marching orders and we see ourselves in it and you have actually endorsed it and saying yes that's what we want to see you do. How how is that going to interface with the five-year comprehensive plan?
>> It will be reflective of that because ideally we need to make sure that we're aligning ourselves with what that is. But the strategic plan is still is a layer below that because the comprehensive plan is more of the visionary statement that you want for your overall community. The strategic plan is how you want this organization
operate. So, are I I gather I mean I appreciate the distinction you're drawing, but while I'm on the topic, are we going to be able to have our five-year comprehensive plan imple uh approved within the five-year timeline that the statute
requires and not a 9-year timeline as we last experienced? >> Sure. Because I think what we're what we're going to commit to >> reaction Go ahead. >> I was just going to Yes, we are working towards that goal to bring to bring that forward to council. It's it's the the statutory requirement is that we review
um we'll bring forward updates and then give the council an opportunity to um I don't know if that's going to look like a readopt or or or receive a report on that review, but we'll we'll get there as we get there. >> Check with the city attorney, but I think that the statute requires that we
adopt a five-year we adopt a new contract. >> We adopt we then that's what we'll do. Not not to get into we it is required a review since the you adopted it at the fiveyear you did there and after 5 years it's required for review. I don't believe it
requires a complete readoption. We we looked at that very specifically. Okay. >> In the last uh six months. >> So it's a good point of just making sure that all of your plans are supposed to connect. So the comprehensive plan is that big overarching visionary statement
about what you want the community to be. The strategic plan again is how you want the organization to do the work to achieve that. Then you could have annual plans that are really associated with the idea of what is it going to take yearbyear to deliver that five-year plan. We call them work plans. I've
introduced that and expected that of everyone. Uh and then you have the complimentary plans that are more specific. They're targeted to bike ped plan, our parks master plan, all those individualized plans that are specialty in focus. We want to make sure that
those are getting the life that they need to be implemented. Which is why my theme to you as a part of my work plan is implementing our plans because we have a bunch of plans. We have some sitting on shelves and we have some that are actually actively being implemented. My goal is if we have the plan, we admit
that it is a good plan. I heard what you said that then means we must implement it because we said we're going to spend the money we're going to do the work we finished the work and now we have to pull it off the shelf. So no plan that we have today should be sitting without any funding attached to it without any
metrics associated with it without any effort being put forward to delivering on it. They're not all equal. So it doesn't mean that every plan has this big massive amount of money to ensure that it can achieve all the things equal to the next plan. But you just want to make sure that something is associated
with each plan. And that has been what I've asked our team to make sure that we're checking with all the departments. What are all the plans? Are they still valid plans? Do we need to revisit any of them? And for that misalignment statement, should we say no? Should we stop? Should we cancel? Should we revisit? And that has been part of it.
Think about our VOTE portfolio and the resetting of that portfolio. It was a plan when I got here. It is very different today than what it was when I got here. but it's actually moving now and that's really what we want to be able to do. Okay, so very good work this
morning. We are going to shift to grab lunch. Is that right? Am I on track agenda wise? Thank you for this is >> lunch is outside the room here. Take a minute, take a break, grab your lunch and come back. And then VN is you
remember VN? the end is that powerful little short punch that's going to come up here and bring you back to the world of money, money, money and why we struggle with can't do everything because we don't have enough to do it all. Um, but she's going to give us what amounts to a very very good update uh on
the financial health of the organization. >> Good as in yay or good as in thorough? >> I'll leave you to determine that. >> Yes. The list of those. Are we going to keep it down? Maybe that's a long range. Take those
guys. Absolutely. >> I labeled it broken one. >> I'm really That's what it was. >> Thank you so much. >> I think we should make that a new hiring criteria.
There's a great Sure. How are you? >> Thank you. >> What kind of city phone did you get? >> Wait, why do they give us an iPhone if there's no iCloud backup? >> I don't understand. >> Are you kidding me?
>> I have an S. How could you How could you not get a case for it? >> They didn't give me one. They didn't give me one either. I was going to walk around without >> Please don't tell me I'm in the shop. >> He's filming me eating. He saw me pick up pick up a piece of lettuce with my
hand. >> I hope it's not. >> Now Charles like >> he eats with his hair. >> James just picked up a piece of lettuce with his hand. >> What's that? Yeah, exactly right. >> When you're done with one piece of
lettuce, it can be hard to stab it with that pork s you just kind of go. >> You got to get your >> Now I got to come back to myself there first with a public message.
>> I didn't say >> keep it coming. bring me two actually. >> Good. >> All right. So, we're going to go ahead and get back into it. Um, we're going to go into a financial health update. Our
speaker for this section is VM Le Young, who is with PFM. PFM is our financial advisor. They um tell Chrissy a lot of things and make her hair stand up on her head and then she comes to my office and we have to figure out what that all means. Uh but Ven as you all remember uh
presented during your fall retreat and again I just wanted to make sure that we brought that forward and give her a chance to give an update. Vienn is really good at studying what's happening out there and then finding a way to come and tell you in a way that you can understand. So that's what I like about
what she does. So Ven take it away. >> Sure. Well, thank you everyone and good to see you all again. Again, my name is Van Long. I'm the director of DFM, the city eastern NATO advisor. And um I have prepared a presentation today and you know, I say presentation, but obviously
please feel free to interrupt and ask questions as we go along. Um but what I'm start off with the kind of national economic outlook. um you know whatever is happening nationally is relevant specifically to Charlottesville but we're going to bring it down to the regional uh trends and then to
Charlottesville and end with what does it mean for the city um some of the slides and some of the information you have heard before um from the last council retreat back in the summer um but you know I'm bringing some of the same information back because it is
relevant uh for your FY2027 budget um it's relevant as we make these strategic um decisions um all of those kind of tax rates, all of those things are still relevant. So, I want to bring it back um to today's council retreat. Um even though some of
that we have already talked about um in the last Oh, okay. >> We're relocating. Okay. >> Hi. Um hi. You're good.
>> So, if you go to the next slide and the blue kind of slider here, I just want to pause there for a minute. So, you know, quick quiz. Last time we talked about actually when we talked about the regional trends and the the uh national economic outlook, we were in the summer
and remember last time it was right after the tariffs. And so last time when we talked about the economic outlook, what it means for the city, it was right after the tariffs announcements were made. there was a whole lot of volatility in the stock market. There was a whole lot of uncertainty in the
economy. And so last week we actually talked a lot about recessionary risks. Um and you're like okay well you talk about recessionary risk and it never happened. So you know what does that mean now? Um so if you can go to next slide here the landscape has changed right the landscape has changed from you
know a lot of uncertainty what the recession is what will 2025 the the landscape and the narrative has changed significantly from that to what is currently now which is we all know that the economic growth is slowing down
um and I say growth meaning that the job growth has slowed down right now uh but it hasn't exactly declined And that has a whole lot of impact on the study itself. Why is that? So what I'm showing on this slide is in December all three
rating agencies movies, S&P and they all issued a local government outlook at the end of every year. And what you see here are snapshots from the S&P local government outlook um indicating that you know the slow growth in the economy
is almost a given, right? you're already experiencing it and the general consensus is that that slow growth is going to continue in 2026 and what does that mean for local governments as a whole and remember this is specific to local government outlook this issue by the rating agency and we can see you
know again just our snapshot from that but I'm going to read from it a little bit right with a slow growth national economic forecast as a backdrop you know local governments are facing widening structural imbalance right you see here a little bit of the federal uncertainties here but overall if you look at the chart to the right here.
What you see here, this is a survey basically saying percentage of cities um get away from there. Percent of cities feeling less able to balance next year's budget versus this year. Overall, you know, the facts are not just an outlook. The facts are the economic growth has
slowed down. The rating agencies are highlighting all of these top challenges and these six challenges related here you know challenging us create a budget gap personnel cost pension federal uh uncertainty infrastructure maintenance
property tax growth constraints all of those six things are very very applicable uh to Virginia and to Charlottville and so again these are not no longer oh uncertainty we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow the fact is the economics IC slowing growth is already happening and expected to
continue and has significant impact on the city's tax base. Um you know we talk about okay slowing economic growth I get that you know revenue growth is going to slow down. I understand all of that but I want us to bring back to the kind of you know why is this particularly hard in this
juncture it's not only the slowing revenue growth it's the loss of the ARCA dollars you know we have all been on a spending spree since co basically um what this slide shows here is a percentage change year-over-year of um
all cities nationally so this is a publication by the national legal cities and you can see here and I always look at this graph I'm like And so we're seeing this. Look at the difference between revenues, the teal line and the orange expenditure line. Right? Look at the orange expenditure line and how much
it has grown for local government, local cities um since co that steep orange line up there is precisely showing how local governments have been spending money. And why is that is because of the ARPA dollars. Um on the other hand,
revenue growth actually has been relatively robust. So we have all experienced significant assessment growth but you can see that that growth that teal line there is dropping. Um so that trend is real and so it's really two things together that really drives a
very challenge for local government is the overall economic outlook the economic slowing down but it's also because you know we are not in the norm. We are trying to get back to the norm as we speak right now postcoid. Um so that's kind of on the national level
what's going on. Let me now dive into the um Virginia specific pieces and I think this is relevant. Um for Virginia, it's important to remember that has been a whole lot of talk about kind of federal economic uncertainty and all those things. I just want to remind
everyone that back in spring 2025, the rating agencies downgraded a couple of regional of the DMV area jurisdictions. They downated the state of Maryland, Prince George's County, Washington DC, and Wada, which is the metro uh transit
agency. For different reasons, um the rating agencies make um direct adjustments. Um but for Virginia, Virginia was reaffir um and significantly uh the rating agencies talked about how a lot of
defense got in Virginia, so they're not as worried about Virginia. The other really important strength about Virginia is your tax base. So Virginia, you because of the tax code, you rely on property tax to follow local governments primarily. But in Maryland is income tax based. Washington DC as well as income
tax as well as part of that kind of pie for the tax revenues. And so in Virginia there is actually a lot of spring here. We're not seeing some of that kind of volatility driven by income tax because our tax base is property tax. And so that is a good thing. But if you look at
that, according to the next slide, if you look at the Virginia kind of local revenue year-over-year growth, this is a slide from the summer as well. Uh we don't have FY2025 figures yet, but I it will be coming up soon. And what I would expect is that the growth line there
that has dropped in FY 2024 will further come down in FY 2025. That is the expectations. We're seeing that across the board. Your Apple will come out very soon as well. You will see that as well. the growth is slowing down across all Virginia local governments. Um so obviously that has an impact. This is
reflection of the whole you know overall economic slowdown narrative that I gave earlier. If you go to the next slide here you know another clear very important trend in Virginia is collective bargaining. Um this is a slide that summarizes uh the collective bar the places in Virginia that have
authorized collective bargaining. And what I wanted to highlight here is that since authorizing collective bargaining for these municipalities, I don't know if the colors are really showing um but but essentially a lot of places have started certifying the unions and so these pending will soon become with
numbers right we have seen so so if you look at Charlottesville itself you know you started with certified police and firearms right and then teams uh came later and so essentially as more collective bargaining agreements are um finalized and and
finalized, you will essentially see more of that inflexibility in the SP spending. And we'll talk more about what inflexibility in spending means. Um, but this is a landscape. This is a landscape from a national perspective. This is a landscape on the regional perspective. Again, local governments are going to
face a lot of headwinds and and it's not only me saying that, it's a rating agency saying that too. And we are seeing local government generally prepping for that overall. Okay. So with that, let's kind of back off Michelle. What does that mean for you?
I always start off with the pies. I always start off with the revenue pies and the expenditure pies because at the end of the day, you know, your your budget balancing is is your revenue equaling your expenditures. I mean, at the end of the day, that is the bottom line. That is the financial equation.
And in order to understand that, you got to know what are your major drivers. And so this is your overall revenue pie. Half of your revenues are property tax. Another a little less a quarter is what I call other tax revenues. The meal stack, the sales tax, the logic test is
so important. And then what I'm calling the non-blue versus the other. So what you're seeing here, you know, if you recall what I talked about ON THE PROPERTY TAX SIDE, your assessment was growing very robustly, right? Postco everyone's assessment has been going up. But then right now, what we're seeing
here is that your assessment growth has been slowing down and the 2026 landing will come out. hasn't come out yet, but it's 2026 land book. Um, I don't think it's official, Chris. >> Should be coming up, right? I don't mean to put you all on the spot, but
essentially what we're expecting and what we're seeing across the board is that the assessment growth has been slowing down. So, half of the pie there, your growth is slowing down. On the other blue slices, um, you know, I was, uh, I was in Newport News yesterday and
they are seeing the same thing. those revenues are essentially flat. Uh they are level, they're flat. They're not really growing at this point again given the overall kind of national economy where we are. So you can think about the pie chart this way, right? Half of your pie is already slowing in terms of
growth. You know, a little less than your quarter of the pie there is actually essentially flat. there is not much growth that you're going to see and you should not expect to see significant growth in FY2027 by you know you're saying okay I understand
that if my assessment growth is not is slowing down I'm not getting as much growth from that half of that pie well wouldn't I just you know increase the rates and essentially get more revenue out of that part of the pie so let's go to the next slide here
um wanted to show a little bit about tax base and tax burden. Uh comparing Charlottville which is the blue bars with Albert Murray County as you know already your tax rate is higher than ever county but then your tax base your tax base is weaker meaning that your per
capita taxable assess value is lower than Mar County. I think I used this analogy before whether you choose lemon or orange is the same thing. You're squeezing more out of your orange. Right. Uh the next slide broadens that comparison a little bit uh with Northern
Virginia cities. Um so the cities are included there are Alexandria Hills church and masses but also the counties in Northern Virginia. And I think we talked about this a little bit last time is that your median income and I know that median income in Charlottesville is
very tricky to measure. Uh this is from the US uh Census Bureau because of UVA's presence here. You know the median income a questionable number. But regardless, your median income is about half of the comparison group of the Northern Virginia group here. And yes,
your property tax rate, your personal property tax, and your news tax rate, almost all of them are higher except, you know, if the property tax rate is a little bit lower, but not significantly. And this is what we're comparing. We're not saying that you should be the same as them, but just to give you context as to what your tax rate is looking like at
this juncture. you know the 98 cents tax rate is you know higher than ever county you know compared to the northern Virginia county which has much more much stronger tax base you're not that much lower than them one more slide on comparing tax bases um
and tax efforts um the state measures um revenue efforts the state measures how far you're squeezing the orange uh by this measure of revenue effort and I do want to highlight this one Because you know if you look at Charlottesville city
um higher means higher effort lower means lower effort and you can see that the number is much higher than your do Virginia city's counterpart and just one more point there in the sense that as we think about this as we think about kind of how much higher like you you may see
you may see I think in in the next budget cycle that the Northern Virginia jurisdictions may also start adjusting tax rates accordingly but I just want to know the gap uh between the revenue efforts of the city and these corresponding cities. >> What can you just explain when you said
more effort, what what what is that? What do you mean by that? >> Sure. It's essentially um a statewide measure. So, it's essentially indexing. And so, they're saying like what if we and the methodology is basically a bunch of Excel spreadsheets that basically
said what if um each locality were to have the same tax rate? How much can they actually draw from that tax base? >> And this uh this revenue effort number does not adjust for college towns. Correct. >> Correct.
>> Um yeah, I just I would just highlight and you know I I think that really fundamentally distorts this for us in terms of like we rank similar with like far southwest Virginia Wise County when like we are much much wealthier. So I
would just caution and that similar problem exists for all the other college towns like Harrisonburg and Virginia that this makes us look fundamentally more stressed than we are >> right except I guess I guess it may be a question we can dive into this kind of
you know post session as well is like you know when you when I think about real estate tax right like the assessed value are for homeowners um and and the whole you essentially like the tax rates for homeowners I don't expect them to be you or rather very few um college um
students to be to be part of that kind of assessed value um tax base itself. Um and so so essentially you know sure like all these tax rates you can see here including you know real estate tax, personal property tax, local options sales tax. Obviously the college
students would be part of that kind of sales tax by beagles um but then but then um they would not be part of the real estate personal property tax base um itself I would say. But yeah, we can sort in a circle at this point. But I think I think it is
important, you know, you know, when I look at Charlottesville, right? Like the the the the key here is you want to maintain your regional competitiveness. Um and and and right next door is Alber County and that's always going to be that kind of tension between cities and counties across the country, right?
Cities generally has more concentration of poverty, more homelessness, more social services needed. county generally speaking have a you know stronger wealth levels and that kind of dynamic between the cities and the counties and essentially always like wondering how
much can we increase our tax rate before we start losing our population to the county. I mean that that that tension is always there. Um it's not unique to you necessarily any city county dynamic that is always there and that's unfortunately something that you know we just have to grapple with and and can be careful
about. Um and that's what I'm saying is that you know because the cities offer more services sometimes you know sometimes tax rate you know come the comparison between the city and county tax rates the tax rate itself I mean it is very common for a city to have a higher tax rate than the surrounding
county is fairly common um nothing is wrong but just to be careful and managing that regional competitiveness is the overall point here let me uh turn now to um expenditure measures you know if I were to use you
know overall 176% of the revenue fees it would be slowing right because of the national economic outlook um and also because of the regional trends here if I were to use one more to some of the expenditure side it is the lack of
flexibility on expenditure on the expenditure side is really three big slices it's the personal costs in blue the the school's contribution in in brown and the other costs and those other costs includes your debt service your your nonpersonal cost essentially
your highest three one blue and the brown and then the other pieces when I say that the the expenditure has lack of flexibility this is what I mean on the personnel cost side you know you're local governments are the service industry we provide service by having
police presence right all of those people business that's the slices right on the school side I don't need to tell you that there is little bit of flexibility there as well. You know on the other slices on the other costs you know inflation is fairly sticky right
now. You continue to maintain your buildings you know even if you don't build new ones even if you just maintain buildings you have to issue debt to maintain them. So overall there is that lack of flexibility on the expenditure side um to essentially curb spending growth. um in order to essentially
maintain services provide services as is you have to spend a certain amount of money in order to do that. Um you may not agree with this but one of the analogies I have heard is that local governments at its best is invisible in the sense that if you don't see trash on the streets if you don't see
homelessness if you don't hear sirens right that's local government working at its best you know a point that you know some people agree some people disagree but my point is you know just being doing those core local government services is a big part of your spending
just maintaining your police presence um just doing The daily things that you do, public works, fire, all of those things require certain level of spending. That is the current level of service. So beyond any investment, beyond any strategic priority investments on the baseline level and the core government's
piece like just to fulfill your mission, you have to spend a certain money because we're in the people business. Uh when I say life spending flexibility, let's go to the next slide. And I want to talk a little bit about why I say that. Now, as you know, uh this has
collective bargaining and and that comes with some lack of flexibility. Um right now, you're negotiating a contract with police. Next, you will negotiate a new contract with fire. Um essentially, the way it stacks up, you're almost going to be negotiating a contract almost every
year basically. And that comes with some inflexibility. When you have a contract, when you have a multi-year contract in place, you're going to honor that contract. to honor that contract, you have to make multi-year investments. You know, the other thing about this is that, you know, at the end of the day,
because of the process that collective bargaining provides, you know, Christy or Chrissy right now, it's going to have a reserves in the budget, you know, based on the police contract and however it goes, right? When we're budgeting, um, because some contracts are not going to be finalized yet, there needs to be
some level of buffer based on that outcome. So collective bargaining in itself can result in some lack of flexibility and not only you have it, the schools have it as well, right? So I want to show the next here um where the schools also collective bargaining and I
I only saw one public contract right now. Um I know that the second one is pending at least not public yet. Um, but the the current licensed personnel contract has a five and a half% increase uh built into the build into the multi-year contract and that is going to
significantly increase your school's high funding pressures there. And I'll just note all I'm saying is these problems are not unique to Charlottesville. um in in Fairfax County which is also facing a lot of budget pressure. Uh what
they actually had to do was they actually go back to the schools and say we have a budget shortfall. We can't fund that. And they actually go back to the school to make adjustments um regarding those compensation increases for schools. So again, this is not unique to you. We're all just in a very
unique place based on the economy, based on where the proposed COVID world has gone to essentially, right? Based on how much federal funding we're able to be blessed with. Um, but this is a juncture that presents significant challenges for for local governments overall.
You know, for you, I would say, you know, there's more inflexibility uh because there are there's a health fund which is an internal service fund. um you know over the years be before FY2022 you were able to build up these kind of surpluses um but then essentially you've
you know built up your savings account and essentially took a vacation and and essentially use some of that money to fund healthcare but now um even with the FY25 surplus in that fund you know we are seeing that being lower than the targeted number so you have to build
back up that fund balance which actually has increased again because of the 2025 surplus there um But you just have to kind of keep at it and not underfund the healthcare part otherwise you know you'll lose that buffer again. So again this is something to we're keeping an eye on but essentially you know you
don't have that buffer that you had back you know back in 2017 when you were able to use some of that reserves um to help with the budget gap. You know another piece of um funding pressure is pension. Um and I do want to talk about this a little bit. Last time when I showed
this, it was only 69% funded for Charlottesville. So this time when we look at the newest number, it has increased uh from 69% to 76% funded and you're just a hair lower than the national average. So that is good news, right? Your funding level has increased
uh since the last actuarial report. Um but you still have some ways to go. Um it's 76% good or bad. You know, you can see here on the chart here and I want to say like, you know, 76% I don't know going back to the high school test is that like a B minus or something out of 100 like is that
>> a C right but >> it's hard to say like every every um percent you're more than 100 it is very costly you know last time I was talking about 2025 actually report and you know because of the 76 funding uh funding
level 80% % of your contribution goes to funding that unfunded gap. 80% of that pension funding level. I mean this is why we always say you know you should always increase your pension funding level because in the long term it does help drive your cost down but in the interim term you have to increase that
funding level so that in the long term you don't have to pay that unfunded liability cost. So again 80% of your total contribution goes to the unfunded liability piece and that's important. Um so that will continue to be a goal for the city to increase your pension
funding uh level and you can see here right on the personal cost size salaries okay colle bargaining lack of flexibility give the healthcare fund challenges pension piece again improve funding level but continue to pressure uh because you're still below uh the
national average. So just while we there are we I recall Jason I think talking with us about that are we working towards that I don't know if it's Christy or Sam or towards >> anything like that
>> given yeah even increasing >> uh we are and some of the you know some of the increase in this funding status that the referenced um is attributed to you all for using the onetime surplus money. So with every contract that we
sign, as the wages go higher, your pension costs go higher. Um, and we did fund those along with the contract. So we weren't creating additional liabilities along the way. Um, interest rates have been higher for longer, which has also helped the funding status here.
So a lot of management decisions have gone into helping make this uh percentage better. Um, and so we will continue that as we continue to um increase the contracts. this is always part of the equation um that we'll be
coming to council with um to make sure that we're maintaining where we need to be. >> And I would I would add that what we have been doing is when we get the surplus detail, the the knowledge of how much a surplus is before I even allow us
to think about anything else that we can spend that money on, we first go to things like this. we go to those things that the healthcare fund, the pension fund, wherever we know there might be a gap filler that's needed, something that will kind of soften some of the pressure
that we may feel, we start there first. So, any thoughts that anyone may have on the budget team about, oh, this is a place for me to be able to get money to do this, that comes after we consider items like this. But this is exactly the point where like
you know you you pay for the core local government services and then you have to like do make these investments which is really truly required in order to gain good fiscal grounding. So you know there's a core piece which already grows because of all the kind of baseline costs grow and then you have to invest
in these things which is really to be a good fiscal steward you have to do that you can see why I say there can be a lack of flexibility when when there's already that many pressures that you're you need to do in order to be good fiscal stewards. Um and and that really is the main point here.
Um remember that earlier sorry question before we move on to the next slide. Um the 80% of what we're spending is funding the gap. I don't can you >> I don't understand that. Is it important
for me to understand that? >> I can I can try to explain simply but essentially every year you make pension contributions. Um and pension contributions basically you know the the portion for current employees is basically I put the money in you know
that person is going to retire and that person can have pension benefits. So I'm going to assume this person with money that grows every year and then when that person retires they're going to be able to you know it's going to be able to fund that pension benefit. I mean that in itself is a notion of what pension contributions do. When there's an
unfunded liability, when it is not 100%, what your actuarial does is that they take that unfunded liability and say you need to pay that back over time and they will spread that cost over multiple years. And essentially that unfunded liability is basically saying it's not
enough to pay for the retirement when they actually retire. You need to give above and beyond. It's almost like, you know, think of my retirement goal like I have a retirement goal and like every month I'm supposed to contribute to it to meet my retirement goal. But right now my 401k whatever ass says I'm
actually short. So they actually require you to make the contribution that you fall short of so that you can actually make your retirement goal. So that's essentially is what what that 80% I was telling you um is about and because they spread those costs just over a handful
of years not over 30 40 years which is what your normal cost generally do spread over a long time because they spread those costs over a short period of time. That's why it's so costly. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And remember that chart I show very
early on, the National League of Studies showing the teal and the orange line, the divergence of two, right? The divergence of two came from again the the the AR dollars. And remember, you know, the AR dollars, the deadline to spend them is coming up. Um, you won't
have the year end surpluses that you used to have and all of those is going to essentially add on top of the slow growth in revenue. the lack of spending flexibility and the loss of our products. Those are the three threats the city has essentially going into this
budget process. Um, and I know that I'm not the liver of good use, but essentially if I were to boil down why, you know, why the FY27 budget process is more difficult than before, that would be the three reasons why. So, moving forward, um, I do want to
talk just a little bit about kind of your your your credit pressures. you know, as you know, the city has prepared all credit rating agencies. I'm sorry, two two from the credit rating agencies. Um, and you know, these are some of the
comments from the rating agency comments. And I I I wanted to to highlight the bottom one. Although likely we could take a negative rating action to offer persistent budgetary imbalances for so you could draw reserves without cost replenish. And that's a kind of a standard, you know, the way they view is are you sustainable
or not? This is what the credit rated agencies really care about. And if you go to the next slide here, um I know it's a whole lot of numbers. I don't want to um dive into every single thing, but essentially when S&P says you have a AAA rating, um they have a
scorecard. They they measure different things by different percentages and they wait um they weight your score accordingly and they make qualitative adjustments in order to determine that you're safe. The one thing I want to highlight again I don't want to go through all of this in detail but the one thing I do want to highlight is
under the financial performance. So right now the city scores one which is the best um because you have for that category for that 20% per performance category because you have been having surpluses because you have been having between three and 4% in surpluses in the
past five years. So break down your score in one. And that's the part I do want to highlight as we kind of go into the 27 budget process and think about okay what does balancing the budget means? Essentially what S&P is saying is that like we want to see local governments more than balance the budget
more than just 0%. Balancing is zero right if revenue minus your expenditure is zero that's balancing the budget. They want what they want to see is that you're having a little bit more buffer there and the 3% is the threshold there. So I did want to highlight that as a score for you. You know, you do score
one right now, but that really should be the city school is to have that kind of buffer in your community performance. Can I just so to enhance that a little bit? So when Chris comes to to council to present to you results and he talks
to you about the surplus, we have uh historically been talking about surpluses that are 3 to 5% of your total budget. That is what Pian's referencing here of 3%. So even though over the last few years with for uh ARPA dollars and
other things where our uh fund balance has been double digit percent of budget um you know three to 5% is really standard and this is one of the reasons why. >> So um I know that having the AAA bond rating
is really important. helps helps us um borrow money more cheaply is it's most simplest terms if you could I'm sure you know what will help me is like if I'm claiming people
like I've been schooled the $90 million project different funds if you can maybe just give me a ballpark figure like because we have that AAA bond rate we you know we may have saved x amount of dollars is it possible school to just I mean I'm
trying to I'm trying to put a number to that because we can say we have but what does what does that mean concretely for the city >> and that is always a tension it it what exactly you described yes it comes with lowering costs um generally speaking it's a staple for good financial
management and strong tax base um it is you know it is very coveted um >> it's been said for many years in a row is my understanding Um it goes back to the 60s I believe. >> Yeah.
>> Um but we can actually quantify the difference between aa versus if we were separated something lower. Um we can get that to you give you some talk. >> And then why are our numbers so bad for debt liability >> or three and four?
>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So again, you know, the scorecard is, you know, generally speaking, we don't expect you to score the best in every single cap. >> Okay. >> Um actually, um rating agencies also make qualitative
adjustments and you know, yes, your your your debt scores are are lower as you pointed out and part of that is because of the maintenance needs of the capital buildings um because of all the assets you have to maintain. Um this is this is really part of the reason for issuing
debt is to when you have a building that you have to maintain um we have been issuing debt in order to keep up those assets because the flip side is if you don't maintain it right that that that the adverse effect is so adverse that we
we also don't recommend it. I you know I would not recommend for for instance you know to this specific question I wouldn't recommend you say like well you know in order to improve my debt metric should we kind of reduce the debt that we have so that we and then you don't maintain the billings like I just can't
imagine the adverse effect there on not just kind of the aesthetic of wage but on your on your quality of life on everything else. So for it's always almost always act a little bit but we also don't expect you to be able to score the best in everything.
>> And we've also been in a cycle of uh issuing large amounts of debt uh as compared historically and as compared to our budget for example the $90 million for >> if I could just add one thing. So also
bear in mind um city has long-term financial management policies and one of them speaks specifically to debt as a percentage of the general fund. So you also have that um as a as a means of of of seeing where you are. And then Chrissy also has a lovely chart which I
know you all are dying to see about her you know capacity and affordability which you know spoiler alert it's coming. Um, but one thing I'll just also add as well mentioning the long-term financial management policies. As you look at this scorecard and you look at our policies, you're going to see a lot
of similar verbiage or a lot of connections between these because those policies are tied directly to these sorts of metrics and and thoughts in terms of uh what are we doing today, but also then what's the impact going forward in terms of financial
sustainability, structurally balanced budgets, all of those sorts of things. So, so next time you get a chance to look at those, keep this, you know, keep this slide and the next one in mind because you see a lot of the same words, a lot of the same concepts. Uh, >> so, so Chris, just for clarification,
when you come to us and say, you know, we have x amount of money surplus, are you already factoring in like we already got, you know, some, you know, the surplus that meets this qualification? Is that already aside? And this this is extra
extra So, so the surplus really is, you know, the budget is is the plan. We thought fiscal year 2025 was going to go like this. We're going to do these things. The surplus is actually the end of the audit. The fiscal year is done. Here's how we actually did it. We looked
at this much in revenues and we spent this much. The surplus really means after we've spent everything, we we've, you know, followed the appropriations, we've followed our financial management policies, we've done whatever we need to do, here is what's left. That's really
what that truly is. Sort of the leftover the the >> And so you all would let us know if we're getting, you know, in that danger zone of the surplus >> of not getting a surplus. >> Well, right. Not only that, but that I
guess well, you know, >> to back up just we don't plan for surpluses. When we when we present the the the budget for the upcoming fiscal year, it's balanced. Yeah, >> but obviously things happen through the course of the year. And so this this
metric of 3 to 5% if you think of a $265 million budget or really kind of have any budget within 3 or 5% that's that's pretty good because again you're you as we are finishing up the FY25 audit right now FY25 began 18 months ago in June of
20 or July of 2024. So 3 to 5% that that's pretty good. But as Chrissy mentioned the last few years, you know, you can't have too much of a good thing. And frankly, that's where we've been with some of these double digit surpluses for a variety of
reasons. Um, so the 3.5% is is kind of what you see as a best practice or a best matrix. That's really kind of a where you want to be. If you're doing your financial management planning well and you're executing it well, that's probably where you ought to look at. >> But to give you a little bit more
comfort, we are managing it. That's the revenue team. We meet regularly and you can bet when we start seeing to you that revenues are not performing. We're going to start pulling levers and we're going to stop spending money. So, we're not going to it's not going to be a surprise to you at the end of the year that oh my
gosh, we're going to have a deficit because we will have already been talking to Sam. Sam will have already been talking to you. And so, we are managing all of that during the year as we're watching results and through the quarterly reports. >> Yeah.
>> And we run the scorecard every like frequently. So as your FY25 effort comes up, we'll rerun the scorecard to make sure that like you're scoring in these categories the way we expect you to and anything we would highlight for sure. Um that you know that is part of part of
managing managing your finances, managing um expectations. Um this is the Moody scorecard. Um you know again you're don't be thrown off by the double A1 there. This is fairly um typical. You have a triple AAA rating
from Moody's. Um what Moody's does is they run the scorecard and then they make qualitative adjustments. And actually it's not very common that we see municipalities square score squarely in the AAA category um all the time. So so I just don't want you to be thrown off by that that score right there. But
the point of this slide is that you know if you look at your available fund balance ratio, it's still very high. Uh it's still you know you know was almost 50% in 2023. in 2024 for example is 40% is still very high but these are the measures that were monetary um to make
sure that you're on financial ground um and that and that your your waiting pressures on top you know anyway and just one other point to the monitoring the spending that was another reason why when we had these big surpluses that you know Sam came to you and said listen
let's not spend it all at once we don't know what's happening there's other levers we might need to pull and so that is part part of the reason why um you know we have he's been holding on to those monies because you know it's great
to do the fun new stuff but also we need to make sure we've got enough in reserve if we need to pull other leverage because of what's happening in the larger scheme of things. So if you think about yeah going to the next slide if you think about it right
you know the surplus seats we've talked about but the dedicating to the retirement fund we just talked about dedicating to the pension why do we do all of these things is really to make sure all these purchases that we just talked about the pension funing level right all of these things are addressed and that you continue to move forward
that toward that financial goal and so as we think about the 27 budget process and I again I know that this morning we spent a lot of time on kind of the strategic priorities and all that you know my point here is you know don't rely on one single thing to fund things
right don't rely on tax rate increase so that I can fund that thing alone um don't rely on you know don't rely on just oh I'll just limit my spending so that I can get that you do really need a multi-prong strategy and I know that's a consultancy word but you really do need multiple strategies because if you rely
on one single strategy uh it can have adverse effects and I just kind of came up with a couple of examples right if you say okay why can't I just increase my tax defer priorities. You know, technically, yes, you can do that. But remember what I talked about regarding the tax burden regarding your
competitive advantage with the county. You just want to carefully manage that. And everything is always attention, right? And so we just don't want you to rely on one single tool to pay for one certain thing um and essentially um create that adverse effect. You know, can you use reverse to priorities? Uh
no, our recommendation is no. Do not use uh one do not use one time revenue to pay for recurring revenues. Right? That's always the golden rule of financial management. Don't use one time pay for recurring revenue. And which is why the way you have certain surpluses are all one time. These capital
resonance retirement investments although one time thing so that you measure onetime revenue with the onetime expenditures. You know can you cut spending fund priorities? You know technically again yes but like you know remember I talked about at the end of the day you have poor local government
services to deliver public safety public works all those things are core local government services and yes I think you know in every budget there should be some flexibility to look at ways to do things more efficiently right to do things can we do achieve the same goal with less dollars that's always the question so that you can create more
room in the budget you know the answer of course is there should always be room to do things more efficiently but just to think about that carefully so that you don't rely on well we're going to do that efficiently and then we're going to spend that money first and then like come back and find out wait a minute that strategy of efficiency actually
didn't work quite well right you just don't want to be getting ahead of yourselves you know one question I always get get asked is what about economic development can I grow my tax base so much that I can fund my priorities and the you know I think growing your tax base is always going to be your goal it should always be your
goal and again that should be part of the overall strategy how do you grow your tax enough, how do you keep your tax repetitive? How do you do things effectively and efficiently? And how do you invest in your priorities? All those things should be kind of, you know, together uh as part of your overall
strategy to move forward. And I just wanted to to be clear that as we kind of enter this kind of season, I would say this is FY27 season. um to be cautious about these dynamics um you know and and and and I I think I used I said this
last time too you know just tell people that I'm here to balance the budget no one wants to listen to you um that is not the most fun thing in the world that's certainly not not most most effective of conveying any strategic priorities to the world but but fundamentally having a balanced budget
having a budget that is um sustainable that is the ground for any kind of strategic priorities you know I you know I work with local governments that that are, you know, in Northern Virginia, but also in in in in Chester, Pennsylvania, which is a poorest city in the states.
Um, you know, often times, you know, I get this question of all, but but what about this, right? And then my answer, what about my priorities? And my answer always is make sure you have good fiscal grounding because without that, there's nothing you can really do. The adverse
effect of without good fiscal grounding is so adverse that you cannot achieve your priorities either way if you don't have that good fiscal grounding right it doesn't matter if you I'm just making this up but you know it doesn't matter if you poor 10 million affordable housing and you have a big deficit that
you cannot solve at the end of the day that deficit is going to bite you back and you have to reduce service level you have to reduce investment on your buildings and all of that as we talked about before has so much adversity that it's not worth And so that is really um the overall
goal here. And there just one last slide here. You know I I do want to you know not be the the always be the the deliver of bad news. And as I think about moving forward, right? I and and let me remind you like everyone is in the same place.
A lot of local governments are facing the same challenges that you are. The the economic outlook is not unique to you. The the regional outlook is not unique to you. You know, you of course you have some kind of funding levels and healthcare fund challenges are unique to you, but overall, right, as as noted in
the S&P outlook, they expect all governments to deal with the same thing. And you're going to see that in the news, you're going to see that in your peers, you're going to see that um in the other jurisdictions. And as we think about, okay, how do we deliver services, maintain our service level,
and invest in these priorities? You might have to, and I'm just saying that, you might have to wait a year or two with certain things. you might have to do that. Um, this is a, you know, I was watching Sound of Music over the holidays again and like wait a year or two. Doesn't mean that it's a bad thing at the end of the day, but some of the
things you might have to sequence it. Some of the things you might have to prioritize it. And I think that's part of the conversation is okay, in order to maintain our service level. We need this much money. We want to invest. We have this much money to invest. How do we prioritize that dollar so that we can get the max out of that? Squeezing that
out of that dollar. How do we get the maximum uh performance and output from that dollar that you're able to invest? And I think that is ultimately the overall goal uh for this budget process is to maintain your fiscal balance, invest in your priorities accordingly,
but truly prioritizing and and and making that kind of sacrifice accordingly uh based on fiscal reality. with that I have essentially the moment. >> So one of the first
slots that you had um it had um that the revenue from the city >> pie chart >> the pie chart. Yes. >> Yeah. um 50% is based on property tax and I'm just trying to remember from
your presentation in August that if we're right at that point where that is about right if it's >> you know so is that is you know half of our revenue coming from property taxes and you mentioned that the assessment is
going down is that about right is that what other cities are you know >> I don't have an exact answer for you. You can certainly certainly circle back. I mean, generally speaking, right, most uh Virginia cities and localities are
driven by the property tax dollar. You're somewhat unique in the intergovernmental piece, right, because of the agreement with that county that you have. So, so that piece I'm not saying is wrong or anything like that. I'm just saying that you're never going to be able to exactly match um the percentage. But this looks kind of
overall on track with what we're seeing overall among like again Virginia jurisdictions because once you cross a border um like I said Maryland for instance relies on income tax which we don't have that in the tax code but generally speaking yeah property tax is the main driver the other miscellaneous
taxes are the smaller tax driver and and that the reason right is property tax is generally speaking seen as not very volatile very stable right tax sales tax are generally more more volatile. Um, and so this is a good like this is a mix
that provides you the stability. Um, in many ways hope is to have more properties. >> Any other question? >> Yeah. Um I'm curious on the
the the slides where you talk about weighing measures that another way to measure tax burden revenue effort and so on. Uh and I'm curious in particular about what factors or what what inputs go into the revenue effort category.
>> It's slide 13. >> Thank you. And your question is what metrics go into that metric essentially like how did that calculation came and and the particular reasons my question is this um we are contemplating we're hoping
that we will have the opportunity to contemplate an additional sales tax bump for u construction of school properties and I'm wondering how that additional 1% sales tax revenue uh would would affect
that calculation. I I understand Michael's point that there are some some distortions that get brought into that calculation because we're a university community. And so one of the questions I have is if we were trying to to do sort of a more nearly apples to apples
comparison. Yeah. >> Uh it may not be Granny Smiths to Granny Smiths, but at least it's Granny Smiths to Galas or something. >> Yeah. uh what what would that additional sales tax burden mean for that number?
>> I am I would like to get back to you on that. I like off the top of my head right now, right? Because it that would be part of the local option sales tax essentially. >> So I think that would be included in the calculation. But but I I do want to let you know
>> in the end I think it also if it if it becomes a statewide ability to do that it would also depend on who else chooses to do that because again these are all indexed relative to each other. >> Yeah. >> So like the top 13 you know between one
and 13 do it as well. I would think we would still be in 13 with just that one >> change because everybody's doing it now. But I would think that number would change but I think that's part of the the factor too just who does it or who elects to do that >> career I wonder if it's impacted because
it's dedicated >> right that's exactly what I wanted to not that's why I didn't want to give a definition how do they treat dedicated >> quiz >> dedicated dollars like similarly you know if yeah do they treat that as part of the overall you know regardless of
how you dedicate it it's still the sales tax we not like that's the question I want to >> the the other the other question that comes to mind as I as I look at the revenue effort number is that we know that there are some taxes that are paid
at least in Charlottesville are paid more by out of town people than in some other localities either because they're tourists or because however we end up factoring in the University of Virginia student population you know there
various reasons why some of those taxes are more a local burden >> than others. Real estate, residential real estate is a classic example. That's a a purely 100% locality, a local resident >> tax. I'm just wondering if there's any
way to to again try to figure out what what we're comparing when we're comparing these different numbers. >> Yeah. And to be honest with you, right, this is a state like report that they released. Um, and this is um I forgot what I think this is a they're they have
a time lag in kind of releasing these reports as well. And if you can go back to the previous slide, right? The best way to kind of adjust for these factors that you just talked about um yeah this one like the best way to adjust for these factors again because it's a statewide report. the best way to adjust
for those factors is really this right like I mean this you know this gives you a sense I mean I suspect right the the revenue efforts index is driven in part by the significant difference in in overall household income and I suspect I mean that is part of their calculation
they they account for that median household income is the measure there and I suspect that is the main thing that drive this um because it's not just about tax rate if you just look at the tax rate itself you're lower right than a slightly lower than kind of the weighted average and showing there. Um
but but it is I I do think it is the the squeezing squeezing of the orange that that drives some of that those kind of higher revenue numbers. >> And again, just for context, we're in like in the ranking, we're in the same area as Wise County, which last census
had nearly 15% population decline and an income of >> like 25,000. And you know, that doesn't really pass the smell test, >> right? in terms of what >> how stressed we are in terms of our revenue. We're in like the in the ranking we're similar to Wise County
>> and where where did you get that? That's from the state's uh I was looking at the four state report whereas obviously we're one of the wealthiest localities per capita in the state >> and it's was interesting to to discuss this because you know for some of my clients you know I told them like hey
like when was the last time you increase your tax rates like you know if your expenses goes up you know your tax rate you know needs to go up to it really depends on the regional nature and from my perspective you know I I wouldn't necessarily compare you to northern region this is just kind a drastic
comparison to make the point. But the truth is you are regionally comparing yourself with Arar County whether or not it's fair. You do have to somewhat you know live with that reality um live with the reality that you have to deliver more services or you have more you know concentration of poverty than than the
county. Those are the realities and and I think if I were, you know, if I were thinking about just tax rates generally speaking, I would primarily compare and look at Elanor County and and the surrounding because, you know, the geography in terms of people living
here, you know, if people wanted to live in Northern Virginia, they would live in Northern Virginia, right? Like that would be kind of what I would be putting my heads in in terms of making sure that you still maintain that re regional competitiveness. um and not and that's why I said you know use multiple tools
don't use one tool to deal with you know the different deal with the same problem and and that is part of it is to make sure you have the right balance between revenues and expenditures and not rely I always say that like don't rely on revenue alone to fix the gap don't rely on expenditure alone to fix the gap
always rely on multiple things um to fix the right >> thank you so all right I hope whoever comes next has a more cheerfully done. >> Another round of five things, man.
>> All right, so uh we're done for right now. We're going to take a break. Give you a break because we know that was a lot. That was a bit heavy as well. uh and just kind of setting John up for he's got a little heavier not heavier but a little more heavy stuff uh in the way of just
structured procedures and uh foyer training. Um but he will make it fun because he is who he is. So let's say 120 >> back at 120.
>> It's a generous break. Okay. We didn't really take one earlier, so I thought, you know, >> um, no. >> I need to determine that. >> I need to retire. I might not want
But that's your count. >> Yeah. And then as soon as he meets >> Is there a preference on >> Jen has actually thrown around >> every 3 months? Not all the time. >> Yeah.
>> Might be later about that. That might that might be a reality early in the work. So for now at the beginning of the day about the park Thursday at 3:30 and stay with
respons couple different ones. Mike 3:30 is good for you though. That actual time, have you seen the emails from um >> director? What do you say? >> 3:30 >> knowing that something could come up
later. We'll do >> we'll clip them this morning. >> Yeah, they're usually an hour. Yes, >> I saw I saw that change talking about this is where I brought up the issue. I keep talking about
>> there's there's a human people treatment of these people there's a there's a broader kind of quality of life broader community and then the third thing I mentioned is there's a cost issue >> and all three of those are kind of going
as long as we do that and so I've been thinking about >> cabinet concept like is this should this be an attempt that we kind circle the wagons around what we want to do because the concern is there's no designated
funding mechanism for clean up >> and is it something we want to >> follow the Thursday 3:30 I think that's still >> I'm going to ask about money can that be used to kind of do this and we can maybe enter into a long contract
>> how whether it's cabinet or not like the question is do we need to get a group of people together >> correct to talk about >> what what in this area. >> Correct. And do you feel like it's that urgent?
>> I was going to take this communicated. May I take your place? Answer that instinct. gut is saying that it is approaching that level of emergency >> particularly because
>> part of what we need at least in the context of that is our partners and their weapons to get involved >> because you know there's various solutions right one is to find anyway that's
the other so then is it are you permanent funding stream to do clean up >> or are we applying pressure or are we doing some combination of those things? >> Yeah. And it's it seems like the there's
a spike in the high seat bill like reports. Um so it seems like public sentiment is shifting >> more towards enforcement. >> I I that's an interesting question. I think that we've had that spike. I don't know that we've seen it though.
Absolutely. Well, I'm I'm at least since I've been here, I'm hearing about. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Right. And I mean, the fact of the matter is it is a steady >> Yep. >> This is an issue. All of actually what's happened is is the locus of that concern has shifted. It was in one area of the
city. Now it's in a much larger area >> as the problem has continued to grow. Unressed. >> Yep. >> My word. Unressed is my word. People may disagree with me. >> Yeah. >> Unressed or at least inadequately. We can all agree about that. >> All right. I I don't I didn't know if I
need to be trying to solve that today. >> One of the things we talk, you know, >> I think one of the things we kind of landed on this is what they obviously say, you know, there's upcoming this is the
>> what I want to do is I don't want to see talk about this. call. So that's what I'm interested on. Does this be a place for us to start >> starting those conversations? Oh my god, now we're defining.
Yeah, that will be >> and and I stand by what it's other people and a pre-identif All right. Yep. Or they need to brief us so that we
can room however. But yeah, we need that expertise represented. >> Yeah. >> I mean >> I mean yeah I shouldn't talk on it. >> 4,000 >> not much but it could very quickly to
like add up. It's $4,000. It's 4,300 do this doing this monthly. >> Yep. >> Guess what? $8,000. >> Uh but but even more concerning than the dollar figure is the fact that >> our staff capacity
>> especially people like that once you met him leaving aside the additional work that we go across our our measures we have inadequate to do the maintenance >> for that. So now we're saying to that
same group of people now you have to go to your best in terms of the cleanup work. >> There's that and the safety >> of those individuals doing that work. >> Well that's what drives the cost. >> I'm saying of the staffing they have to work around.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. When they're doing the regular >> correct technically speaking because the area we're talking about is not actually learned. >> Yeah. our our work well what we're doing is we're just maintaining right along the >> y
we have at least later that's good >> regular people are doing this >> y So yeah. Okay. Easy things right on Friday. Appreciate that. >> Yeah. All right. I just uh wasn't sure.
Um and Ash's out today. >> Yeah. So she's going to she's supposed to send me a revised letter. She's going to steal, >> but um >> Yeah. But extremely extremely
correct. I had to strongly encourage her, but she got there. >> I don't care. >> Yes. At least. >> So, yeah, she's going to do that. She needs to find me send me a provider.
I'll take that money. >> Yeah. But then Sam, I got to put on my one of my notes. So >> as soon as that she makes it known probably there's a communication press release some something that's speaks to this work will still be
assumed by me or whoever the interim dependent city remains committed to this so that cuz he's already which is weird cuz it's a Thursday. >> Yeah. >> And you wouldn't get much done on Friday last day, but she's she's going to work
really really hard up until that point. She can't compensate. >> But I applied that very much so mindseting. I'm going to grab these things so I can do sign up before your time.
I'm just going to grab some material consult. >> I know. I know. Uh my my hope is always like
>> I just I like you know the color you still enjoy they're using they enjoy the sneaker >> for me it was a it's been a evolution
you know, cuz they're so comfortable. That's what I really pride myself on at like older people. So it's like I'm an older person. I think I've always >> no fun for one but also really bad for the trails
>> always what the center trails We have so many trails that are just like outside the one one that I was thinking about actually is the Montello system.
probably when I use that four miles somewhere usually doesn't have to be Okay. >> I just I did a mile and a half this morning. Four miles kind of
need the family. Not that anyone else is but >> right now only my son is interested in going >> I'm not going to wait for someone else. like that.
>> Yeah, everyone has Yeah, everyone. >> I've never met one, but I was like, you're just like a picture of normal, right? I figured you still needed something. >> I appreciate that. Don't ask. When does the rain start? >> That's a great question. I had to see
your time. >> All right, so we are ready for our last segment of the day. Your city attorney is going to walk you through a series a couple a few different things uh over the course of this last session and then I will do a wrap-up at the end and we
will be free for starting our weekend. So, first of all, I want to thank Sam for being, you know, passive aggressively putting the afterwatch after the financial presentation. Really, you know, set up on knock them down, pump them up, jump.
>> No. So, the plan for today is, as Sam said, I'm going to go through a couple of different things all loosely based around the idea of governance, right? Um going to start out by actually when I met with Jen for her new council member orientation uh back in December, had the
opportunity to kind of give her an overview of our office and the personnel in our office and kind of how we work and our portfolios look like. I thought that would be a good thing to start out with y'all and give you all that same information. Um then we're going to go into an overview of your rules
procedure, talk about those. It's not going I'm not going to seem to read the rules to y'all. I think calendar don't read those yourselves, but maybe highlight some things in there. Um, talked about a couple different areas u where we might want to see some some changes. I've noted a couple of areas, I'm sure you all have as well, where our
practice deviates slightly from our rules and is that something that we want to change or do we want to change the rules to adapt to the practice or or vice versa? Um, and then finally, I've got a consideration of some a couple possible changes that just I've identified over the past seven months.
I've had brought to me by other member uh members of city staff um that both deal with the council's rules and procedures and uh how you how you conduct meetings, but also some things that are also contained not strictly in the rules, but also in the city code that we might want to consider um make
some changes. and I just want to get y'all's thoughts on whether you want to consider those changes and then I would bring something back to you um pretty soon actually if that is something that you want to see. So with that in mind, I want to first now I've binders and as I said this is part of my goal of just
eliminating PowerPoint as a way that people talk to each other. Um so rather than having this thing up my screen I put it in this nice binder in front of you. And also, since we're talking about riveting information such as rules of procedure, it's nice to have something that you're clipping along with um to uh
to keep you engaged. >> Do you want to sit at the table with us? >> Um I would prefer that actually, but uh >> we're going through this whole binder. Let's take some room. always do.
>> Then later I want to get you by courage. >> Well, then later when I want to keep it real like flip around backwards like that. Um then so after we have a break in the itinerary after those things and then we get to uh the most fun kind of training there is mandatory training
that you all required to do with regard to FOYA. So we're going to go through that which is in this binder as well. So starting out sort of the overview of our office as Ifully told you in the past we are now fully staffed. This is a this is
a a great thing for for me and for the city I believe. So if you look at this first bit under the first tab here you see how our office is structured. So there is our chief deputies. One of the first things I did when I got here was promotion. happy to find somebody with 20 years of experience uh sitting in my
office just just ready to step right into that role and he's been fantastic at it. Um below this we have the uh every single one of these are deputy city attorneys. It's all based on they all have the relevant experience to qualify for that deputy level. We also have an assistant city attorney level if you were to bring somebody in who's a
little bit more entry level but as it is um these four attorneys here are all vastly experienced and real assets. So they are the deputy city attorney and below that we have the support staff and then below that they're also
really holding all of us up as it is um yeah I'm sure all of y'all have had the opportunity maybe you haven't yet but the chance to interact with Monica our foyer officer she is that's a vital role used to live in the clerk's office but just this fiscal year came over to our
office and Monica was actually serving as the interim when I got here and the previous boy officer left and everybody said, "Oh, thank God she's applied." Um, it's just been she's fantastic at it. Love having her. Hannah Patterson joined us not too long ago as a prayer league
all the way from Boston, Massachusetts. Um, fun thing about Hannah, her husband works on a oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico, not not America. Um, and is uh, you know, and she also has a 2-year-old child. She's she's family when he's off
on the rig. But Hannah also has a JD and is probably going to be looking to take the uh bar exam before too long. But right now we've got one of the parallegal. And then Aaron Roa, our administrative assistant. I can't say enough good things about her. She's the one who keeps all of our heads on
straight. Aaron came to us after years and years um as the front desk person at a school up in Green County. So she's used to dealing with a well say whiny toddler such as myself. Um, you flip over to the next page. You can see how
how we're organized. When I first got here, April, Vane, and Sue in our office were all of these various things that you see here were distributed among those three attorneys, and their workload was incredible. So, the first thing I I recognized when I got here, we needed to give folks some help. So, as
you can see here, where each of these the way it's done is each department is talking directly to the attorney who is within their portfolio. Um and then this gives the opportunity if somebody needs additional help, we can pull in additional help. If somebody has some more expertise in some area or some
issue somebody's dealing with um we can we can support each other in that way. But they're the primary contact for these various departments. Just to uh highlight a few things. Obviously, I'm handling uh any matters that's coming up from this body, from the city manager, from the city clerk, also Chrissy over
here, the budget management, the communications. Um I can't get away from my roots as a litigator. So, anytime there's some litigation, I'm going to be wanting to get in the mix a little bit. But also emergency management, which I share that responsibility with Sue over here. Vaden, uh, as I said, he came he was 20 years in as county attorney in
Pennsylvania County, just a vast wealth of experience. Um, everybody in the office does report to me, but Vaden um, helps me a lot with uh, managing the office and strategic planning and uh, keeping my head on straight really. Um you notice in one highlight of his portfolio is that he advises the airport
authority and that is increasingly a it's something we do by an agreement with them and it's a significantly growing area of work for our office. I'd say 10 to 15 hours a week we're having to spend on airport matters and it's only probably going to increase as they go through this expansion. Jason Burch
actually came and gave the presentation on Tuesday to lead team. was great to hear what they've got going on out there, but also he's handling NDS, right? Another, you know, you know, 80% of what legal office in the city does is related to land use. So, is filling
important gap there. Sue here, she handles, uh, a lot of our first responders, police, fire, um, emergency management. She's going to be our frontline person for those departments. Um, I also back her up on a lot of those functions because that's, you know, that's part of my background as well.
Sue came to us after after uh years and years as a prosecutor in Atlanta. So she has a lot of experience in a courtroom. April is the longest tenured member of the city attorney's office. She's been here since 2023. So >> um she believe it or not I often do have
to rely on her for some institutional knowledge just because how things used to be are are still relevant. But she's also handling I'd say one of the main things that she's handling for is sustainability. She's really uh keyed in with Crystal and all the work that she's doing and has provided them with a lot of help. Caitlyn Weston, she joined us
just in December from the Richmond City Attorney's Office and I'm already hearing just great things about the work she's doing. She's uh interesting thing about Caitlyn, she's an expert in AI law and has done a lot about work in AI in the public sector. How you do go about contracting, how you go about protecting
in regards and she's already been working with our IT department on various contracts, how we talk about AI, how provisions govern it, and also with it about our broader AI policy as an organization. So, she's a real asset in that area. And then Sheila here, she
came to us as she was previously the county attorney in Co Pepper and has more than 20 years of experience and in local government law and she's been just a real asset. She's got a really strong background in DSS work but also in human resources and which is you know it's
always a serious source of liability for a city. So we're really glad to have her there. As you turn the page, another thing I did is everybody that I've assigned both primary folks for each department, but also secondary. So somebody's on vacation sick, there's somebody ready to step into to the uh
gap and to assist. So when you go on vacation, there's somebody at that a department still can call, get on the phone and needs uh and uh provide them with support they need. So that's that's the way our office is organized. I just want y'all to have some idea about the people who are I'm I'm often times the
face y'all are seeing but these are the folks who are really supporting the work in the city and and and that advising. So unless there's any questions about about that move on um move to the really fun stuff. It's an
overview of the city council's rules. That's right. So, as I said, I'm not going to sit here and just read it read these rules out to you. That's they're found under tab four of the uh binder that's in front of you. And y'all might have noticed every council
meeting I've got this red red binder kind of like the the red telephone that the uh that the president can pick up. Um it it contains council's rules. That's the only thing that's in there. It's I need to reference it during the meeting. Um why do we have rules for how council
meetings go? Right. It could there's a book Robert's rules. you can just refer to that. But really, this is the council's statement. It it's your rules. It's how y'all decide y'all want to conduct your business. Some of the things in there are mandated by state law, but for the most part, they're your rules and yours to create and change
around. And they b they exist to balance your efficiency, transparency, fairness, and also order. Bring order to the chaos, which is um a public meeting. So, they're designed to empower you. U they're not designed to constrain the
council. um while ensure that meetings remain predictable, lawful um and accessible. Um and so the purpose of our discussion today is to make sure that you all have a firm understanding of your rules, you visited them and you
know when to use them and how they protect both you as a council and also the public. So I'm not as I said I'm not going to go through but I want to talk about a couple of highlight areas. So meetings and agenda control, right? That's one of the first things they've
talked about here. Council sets this regular meeting schedule. Y'all did it on Monday on an annual basis. Um, city staff have asked me to pass along their thanks for a day off in July. Uh, and I want to echo that thanks because I'll be out of the country on my 20th wedding anniversary right around that time. So,
thank you. Um, the agenda is final. As you know, Kina all we have to have all items into Kina by Wednesday so she can have that initial published version of the agenda out and made public and then um any other additions any changes that
need to be made need to be made by that Friday. Then we have the meeting on Monday. The agenda however is not final until the beginning of the meeting when you all adopt that agenda. You notice the first thing you do when you have your regular business meeting is you adopt the agenda. Um,
that is to say, it's important to emphasize this. Once the agenda is approved, you really should not stray outside it except through proper motions and through proper procedure. Um, the reason why we have an agenda is to inform the public of the matters that the city council is going to discussing
that might be impacting their lives. So, if we if we stray off those affairs and start talking about things that impact people's lives and they didn't have notice of it, they're going to feel pretty raw about it. That's the reason why we have that. Um the agenda follows this fixed order starting with agenda approval and ending with adjournment
right uh so as part of your agenda you have this thing is called the consent agenda right and I tell you city staff loves to put things on the consent agenda because it means that there's not a need to have a big presentation but as you know it's for routine non-controversial items as a matter of
law not of pra but not of practice just about any matter that does not require a public hearing can be placed on the consent agenda. All sorts of things are eligible to be placed on the consent agenda, but we we have put them on the action agenda and talk to you about about them or new business talk to you'all about them because you need
additional information before you make those choices, but could just put on the consent agenda to be voted on. Um, any one of you sees an item on the consent agenda, you can pull it. No justification is required. You don't have to say why you want to pull that has to be pulled and it will be pulled.
So under your rules and this is where I've noticed there is a deviation from practice versus um what's in your rules once pulled per the rules the item is supposed to move to the end of the action items agenda but what I've seen typically is u it's being considered
you'll vote on the consent agenda then you'll hold a separate vote on the uh item that was pulled um often time without discussion. Now, I don't see this being a big problem, but I do like the rules to match practice. So, I want this is one of those areas where I want to ask you, are you interested in maybe
changing the rules such that it's just considered immediately after the consent agenda if if an item is pulled? >> I don't I don't have a preference. Um I I think sometimes when it's a an item being pulled,
it may have generated some public interest and they may be there. So, it might be a benefit to um doing it right after the consent agenda. Um but um I don't I mean I'm going to be there the whole meeting so it's not you know
so but I don't have a preference. I don't know what what do y'all think? >> I'd be inclined to put it as soon as possible because in many cases it's something that that there will have been some public comment on. The public comment was just then and there. What better time to address it than right
away? How often do you guys pull? >> Not that often. >> Okay. >> That's every couple meetings. >> Okay. >> Sometimes it's just, you know, someone disagrees. Sometimes it's like a deeper discussion, but >> but I I have no preference whether it's
at the beginning or end really. I >> It's really been a halfhour discussion derailing the meeting. It's >> more like a five minute discussion. I also tried to run interference uh for any um any engagement that may have
occurred before the agenda was set if an item were on consent. Um because that matter may have been up for discussion higher a higher level of some kind or contact. Um I have asked staff to pull those items down. So working with
Keenan, we would move it out of consent and put it as an action item. try to anticipate that where I can, but it doesn't always happen that way. It could be that that specific meeting where they might have been made aware of the item being on consent. So,
>> it would make sense to address this particular part of it, but I am trying um to anticipate some of those things, but something always goes through. >> Is there any reason why we would need to pull something from consent to the main agenda and have staff need to show up to
talk about it? Well, I my my director if they're if they're have an item on the agenda including consent, they need to be present because they never know when you might want to engage in discussion and I want everyone to >> that's my only thing was if we need to give them time to get there but if they're there already then let's do it at the beginning so
>> and assistants and deputies are going to prepare with them so for because they made an item make it to the agenda that if they can't be there themselves then they'll be prepared will be available right away. Okay, then I'm >> I'm sorry. >> Sometimes pulling an item from the consent is also just to have that
recorded vote >> um not show up as a consent. >> True. >> Yeah. So for that specific item >> if there it's going to be like 4 to one or something, >> but we will support your ability to discuss if you need to. So that that's fine. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask one more consent agenda question? >> Absolutely.
>> Does Kina have to read the consent agenda lad? >> Oh boy, I'm getting there. >> Sorry. Okay. Just >> don't worry. I'm getting there. >> Okay. Sorry. Okay. Um then yeah, right after is f or like right after the consent agenda before the rest of the agenda seems fine. >> Okay. So that will require a change to
your rules. So I will make that adjustment. That's what I'm hearing is that y'all like to have that item heard immediately after the consent agenda is voted on. So I will make that change and present that to you in a future council meeting. >> Okay. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. All right. So
moving through the rules now. Um we've come to a session about motions and debate and how those things are conducted. And this I will say that practice does deviate slightly from what is in the rules. Um for instance only one motion at a time may be on on the
floor. This is why the other night I said hey y'all as the parliamentarian there was a motion and then um >> essentially a substitute motion. Right. So um most in this I have here most all motions require a second under your rules um for it for it to be heard. Um
debate is governed by recognition from the uh presiding officer. And your rules say councilors must address comments through the chair not directly to each other. Um >> it says really except as otherwise noted each member is required to obtain the
floor by addressing the presiding officer before making motions or speaking either to other counselors or to members of the public. Y'all ain't doing this. Okay. And here's what >> is this just this is just for motions not for general discussion. >> This is for for matters need to be
direct through the chair. That's how I mean every rule is Excuse me sir. I like Mr. Chair like to be recognized. The chair recognizes councelor Oscar. Um, well, this is what I would like to say that that's how we typically conduct meetings. But what you all fine, what I would like to propose though is that I
don't think you want to just take away the ability to have the uh the mayor or who vice mayor to uh actually require that things go through them because this council works well together. I don't think there's a big problem. Future counselors, it might not be the case. So
what I would I would suggest is that we actually change this to be um we'll keep it at we'll make it align with your practice but give the uh at the option of the mayor or the vice mayor whoever is presiding over the meeting can invoke that from now on all uh all uh
commentary uh needs to go through me and just they can invoke it in that meeting >> at that meeting in real time. >> Heard that exact motion. You can be like, "All right, >> y'all get out of hand." So, >> right, you know, us. >> Yeah.
>> So, are y'all good with that making that rule change? Great. >> Um, you do make a distinction in your uh rules about substantive versus procedural motions. Substantive motions are the ones that deal with the merits. I hereby move that the uh that we approve this funding that that we adopt
this policy. Um, procedural motions control how and when the council acts and only the list of procedural motions that are in your rules are allowed. This is a table the motion, call the question. Um, your typical Robert's rules kind of uh
motions are are in there and there's an exhaustive list if you want to look through them. I actually think they're kind of fun, but uh that's you know that's because I'm a deranged person. Um, so this brings to the presiding officer. It's the it's the mayor and uh the vice
mayor and the mayor's absence and the presiding officer has the uh has the duty to decide questions of order. So questions are directed to the chair. Now if uh chair makes a decision and uh there's a the person who feels raw about
that procedural decision that the chair has made, they can ask the rest of the council. Well, the mayor just said that I need to shut up because council think I need to shut up. Um, then there would be a vote of the council and they could actually overrule that decision. The presiding officer has the obligation to preserve the quorum and controls the
recognition uh controls recognition and debate flow moving forward when he has actually invoked that we are going to actually go through a recognition kind of system. Um, as I said rules can rulings can be appealed but they need to be repealed immediately. You can't bring up the next meeting. Like I didn't like
the way that the mayor handled uh the way we did debate during that one motion last week. Um >> had time to sleep on in. >> That's right. >> The presiding officer >> I thought on what I really wanted. >> Exactly. >> The spree discalier. >> And it's important to remember the
presiding officer's authority is strong but not unchecked. >> Yeah. Picture you. >> Um I'm actually just these are my own notes. I'm looking at the uh this is what I'm drawing from your rules here. So to say there is no one single section that I'm referencing here. Okay.
>> Kind of highlighting various things. >> Um as I said the authority the presiding officer's authority is strong but it's not unchecked. Council always retains ultimate control through appeal or through various motions. Those are those
are your tools to use to how to um influence the meeting. So public participation. So right now the way you'all have it set up and I've looked at the various ways that public participation, public comment periods are set up across state and I gota tell you it's a it's a rainbow really. It's a
lot of various ways of doing it. Um you know we have we give two opportunities at regular meetings. Um speakers are limited to three minutes and you know it's expressly said here that council does not engage in dialogue during community matters. Then then I haven't really seen y'all violating this. You
might say occasionally thank you or ask a question if it's but I don't see it really derailing the meetings that might if it ever starts to get to be that that's what time you might want to invoke like nope this the rule there have been times when somebody asks a specific question for which there is a
simple answer >> without having to get into a policy debate which I would agree that's not the right time to do that but I also think we ought to if if there is a simple answer we ought to feel free to answer the question >> and I'm not think it being a big issue.
Um I haven't seen it be a big issue. >> It happens every once in a while if someone's like, "Where do I do this?" You can be like, "Oh, the library or whatever, right?" Like, >> but is anyone replying back online? >> We don't. Oh, so is that allowed? Are you allowed to answer questions in
public comment in or there's no public comments in line online at all? Allowed City. >> Okay, got it. >> Not anymore. >> No. Okay. >> So, of course, there's public comment period. There's also public hearings and that's you know governed by separate rules. Um speakers limited three minutes
with rebuttal rights for applicants. Um and council discussion and motions occur after the hearing closes. Um I'm know we have at least one public hearing coming up probably in the March time frame. I might do a refresher with you all about public hearing and what's going to be
required during that particular one because as you know when you're sitting as as the as the body during a public hearing it's a little bit of a different animal and the rules are much more more important that we really do follow those rules because they're subject to be review by court later on. Um, and you
know, the thing I want to emphasize about the rules when it comes to community matters is that they protect both public access and also your ability to deliberate efficiently, which is why why we have them. Which brings me to decorum and enforcement. Under your rules, um, the siding officer may call
individuals to order, remove disruptive persons, and clear the chambers if necessary. And there's a whole list of prohibited conduct that I would want to uh call out. interrupting a speaker who is addressing council, interrupting a council member who is speaking, shouting, or talking in a manner that prevents a speaker or counselor from
being heard or that otherwise hinders the progression of meeting and threats of violence. Um, using profanity or vulgarity, you know, as a practitioner of the curse word dark arts, I uh I know this is a pretty high standard actually. It's not your run-of-the-mill fbomb
probably doesn't qualify for profanity, vulgarity, but it's great utility of that word. It's highly dependent on how it's used, right? So, just something to keep aware of. And also intimidating behavior. Now, this is the part where if this was a a movie about a a plucky
classroom teacher trying to reach a group of kids, I might flip my chair around and just get real with y'all for a second. So, this is close to the soap box I'm going to get. Um, I want to take a minute to talk about the quorum, but it's because I feel it's very important. It goes to the heart of representative democracy. I'm not talking about any
particular meeting or any particular person, but um, council meetings are the place where the community brings its strongest feelings sometimes. Um, passion is expected. Disagreement is healthy. The role of these decorum rules
is not to suppress that passion, um, but to make sure it's expressed in a way that is fair to everybody. This is an equity thing. Um when meetings become contentious, it can be difficult to finish finish their comments. Um for council members to hear clearly what's being said, I sometimes struggle up in
the gallery, especially when there's a lot of talking going down down the chamber. Um or for members of the public to feel feel the process is treating them equally. Um that's where the decorum matters. So enforcing time limits, preventing interruptions,
restoring order, it's hard. It's a hard thing to do. I feel for you in those moments. Right. Um but it's not a rebuke of anyone. If any it's a service to the process that we've all agreed on and to the people who are waiting their turn to speak. Um in many ways the quorum is
about equity. It ensures that no one voice whether whether no matter how loud is going to dominate the room. Um so one of the ra reasons I'm raising like the procedural rules that you have is to make it easier not harder to maintain structure when those emotions are
running high. um you know having clear agreed upon rules allows the proceeding officer to step in without it feeling personal saying these are the rules we've agreed upon and so please please observe those rules and if you can't you're going to have to leave um so as I said passion
belongs in public meetings chaos does not um and these rules exist to make sure the public's voice is heard clearly now that's as close as I'm going to get to a soap box today so be great um which brings me to the equally fascinating matter elect electronic public uh
participation which is another thing and this is actually something and in reviewing the rules this is something we're supposed to adopt annually. I'm sorry before you move on to that um something that will help me maybe over the next two years cuz we >> have had you know you know at least a couple of really
>> um topics where the public has gotten really passionate um about it which was understandable and um so you know I'm trying to you know when
when I'm up there you know I understand the passion of it and someone speaking either for or against something and you have the audience someone you know booing or clapping or whatever. We haven't had too many of that but
we've had some. It used to be a lot more common but you know so that is I mean it's hard right then and there you know it's kind of a judgment type of thing. So, but anyway, um I I guess I'm going to lean on the
counselors and maybe you all if you feel like it, you know, that that balance if it's, you know, if you could you could let me know at least for the next two year next two years. So, >> I would offer that um our most contentious meeting in 25 was about the
homeless ordinance in September. Um and we heard a lot we heard a lot after that meeting and I think it is important especially because this is being shared with the public that one thing and and I don't know if you even know clearly how it works but just the understanding of
in a council meeting the meeting is under the control and purview of the mayor not the city manager. And folks have have confused that at times because every other time and every other thing about buildings access and all that does
fall to the city manager. But if decisions were ever to need to be made about removal of someone from the room or what have you, that all comes from that seat. The sergeant-at-arms is a staff person requested by the city manager to have from the chief to have
available. He's there or she will be there. uh but that's the only person that can activate them in in any effort that's underway. >> And there's a good way to think about it. You are the protector of the person who is speaking and when others are interfering with their ability to be
heard or to express their concerns with imagine that guy in that Norman Rockwell painting who's standing up with his hat in public meeting. Imagine the guy behind him going, "Hey, sit down." And you you would say, "Tell that guy to you got to get out." And if you you warn them and if they uh if they continue to be disruptive, then you ask Sergeant
Mars to ask them outside. And explicitly under your rules during a city council meeting, the presiding officer shall have control in the council chambers and the connecting halls and corridors within city hall and any other venue where a council meeting is being held. Um, in any case of conduct described above, the presiding officer may take
measures deemed appropriate, including but not limited to suspending the meeting until orders resolved, ordering areas to be cleared by Sergeant Arms or requiring any individual to exit the meeting room and adjacent premises. You got to be real careful with this and I I'm glad that you're not just throwing everybody out because because you don't
like what they're saying. That'd be unconstitutional and unamerican, frankly. But um there are times when it's actually impeding the council's ability to do business or for people to express their constitutional right to stand up in front at the seat of their government and and talk to it that I
would advise act. >> Yeah. >> An awesome burden. >> I'm glad that it's only one person who decides >> I think at that September meeting someone counted the number of times I said please please I please come down. I
think someone counted you said please 217 times like oh gosh that's Charlottesville engagement. So I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No you're fine. >> So moving on. So occasionally we will have electronic participation by council
members. Um it's important that it's only for certain purposes that that's allowed. Um when you've got a medical condition going on a temporary or permanent disabilities not allowing you to be at the meeting. um if you or a family member has a uh medical condition
or something that requires you to be away and um also if you have a personal matter that needs to get be dealt with and that can only be used up to a certain number of times per year. I believe it's two meetings or 25% of your total meetings. You can be remote. Um I
think in Kina that would be >> round it up to the next whole number whichever six meetings if we do 25% of 23 meetings in in 2026. So >> um it is it is allowed but uh you know if you can be there it's it's the best
practice. Although it is kind of fun when you're sitting up there looking like Oz down on the rest like everybody else. I do have a question about the number of meetings. I've included um because we know we will have those regular budget meetings. I include those in the total.
>> Okay. >> So, um >> for for the work session >> for the the number of electronic meetings the counselors can participate in. >> So, it could be even higher. Another five or six denominator.
So if you know Lloyd gets in any more kicking contests on the curve then uh >> I will I will likely be missing a meeting in March because I'm going to India. So, your rules also include something uh about the council manager relationship
and it's it's good to include this. Some places do this in their charter, some people do it by an ordinance and uh you also have adopted this in your rules. That's that council governs the policy direction not dictating how operations occur. And it does say individual counselors may not direct staff or
represent city positions without authorization. if uh this body wants to uh deputize one or two of you to go speak about the city's position and to represent the city and the city's position on something, you can do that.
But doing so without authorization would be a uh violation of your rules. >> Is that an authorization we could agree to by like an email or would it have to be something we vote in person at a meeting as an agenda item? the stronger uh the stronger position
would be to vote on it in a meeting um because it's not it's way more transparent that way as well. >> Yeah. >> But in if there's like rapid response time required >> then I would say do the best you can and and you know the only way to authorize that is via um 221s or through a uh
through an electronic communication then go with that. It's these are, as I say, these are your rules and how you want to handle them uh is up to you. Um you'll also provide that request for information go through the city manager. One caveat to that, I am your legal
counsel and my office is your legal counsel and if you want information or you want to talk about the legal matter, go ahead and pick up the phone. I don't think Sam would have any issue with that. Um and he has told me he would not have any issue with that. Um and I also received a good question from
someone that I won't name. Um, but let's just say they were a new member of city council and >> it started with there was a question. I wonder who that was. >> And they asked about the fact that I report to the city manager even though I'm appointed by the city council. I
feel it's important to note that in the event of a if I even get the sense that there is going to be a conflict between the city manager and this body that my duty is to the city as represented by the city council. So, I would need to um find some I would have to advise Sam. I could not advise him on that sort of
thing or whoever is sitting in that city manager seat and that I would continue to be the council's council. Make sense? Um fortunately Sam and I are like peas and cares. I don't ever anticipate this being an issue. Right. >> Keep it that way. >> Well, I I think it's also important to
note that not every policy agreement is a disqualifying. >> No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. This has to do with um >> like whose authority is involved. >> That's right. That's right. Um >> well and and because of the question
just to kind of speak to how we are activating it and hopefully it will be as collegial going forward. I have um I've spent time with John specifically and having a conversation about his office is his office. Like I don't want to interfere with trying to run the city
attorney's office. I recognize that council made the decision to have the city attorney report to the city manager. Um that is for being support to him and resource to him, a consultant to him and vice versa. Um but when it comes
to the legal matters, the training that he has specifically that is not of interest to me in in gaining, um he's the attorney. So I'm going to trust him. I'm going to rely on him and I'm going to leave the door open for him to have access to you. I I would never command that he come to me before he could ever
speak to you. And that applies in the other arrangements because Chris's uh role as director of finance technically other places reports directly to you as well. But past council made the decision that that position reports to me. The intention is the same which is why you
hear from Chris directly when it comes to the surplus and the other things that are in his name. >> Yeah. And I see no reason to make any kind of deviation from that at this point. When I talked with Sam about the job, I said, uh, you know, do you view this as more of a partnership or not? And and or as more of a direct report I
view as a partnership, which works well for me. >> Um, so I'm I'm completely happy and I just bring we're talking about highly formal rules here and highly formal matter. So I wanted to at least raise it. >> We'll bring any dispute to you together. >> Mhm. >> I would imagine. Um,
which brings me to just I'm wrapping up the rules discussion here. Your financial controls and your ethics. So, your funds are tightly regulated, right? The the council funds, city credit cards have very strict prohibitions. Um, and improper, it's important to note this, improper expenditures using city credit
cards. I have city credit cards. I have seen credit. Be very conscious of this. Uh, triggers not only, you know, professional liability, but personal liability. Um, so the clerk, I believe, can you provide quarterly budget to actual reports about credit cards?
>> I have not done that lately, but >> it is in the rules. >> I don't have one. Do you have one? Do we know that one? >> Well, that might be why I have them. >> Yeah, I can pull something, but it I don't know that the information that I
pull is what you all are looking for. >> No, I don't think they I don't think we've issued cards. There hasn't been no >> there hasn't been a request for cards financial >> just the monthly financial budget. So I think that's in there because there have been there's been a practice of issuing a card to council members but none of
the current council have individual cards. >> Okay. >> So I guess we can keep it in there because of course future ones might but um >> until I was suggested until you know we >> reissue >> is if no one gets one I don't think it's a
>> need to do anything. >> Yeah. Is that everyone? >> You still come to me for your needs and I can make sure that you get what you need. >> Yeah. >> So, we might require anybody with a credit card, they have to read the policy and sign it, >> right?
>> I don't want to do that. Don't >> I don't want to do >> Yeah, you don't want you don't want but uh that something that we should talk about just maybe make some adjustments rules to reflect the reality but leaving leeway for you know this in the future. Um,
and that unless you'all have any more specific questions about the rules, that's kind of a big overview of the rules before I move into, you know, some possible changes I' I'd like you all to consider. So, any questions about what we've discussed? So it it is and
sometimes in a meeting I'm contacting Kina and I don't know if this is unofficial like um the the you know the number of times people can speak like it was a gentleman um at the last meeting he seated his time and I was like you
know you've seated your your time so I just need to know I want to up there be fair and equitable with policy so I'd like to speak at the end you know I don't think it was a big issue But I just don't want to we
>> I think technically the person who ended up speaking during his time could have gone again or could have raised his hand and then seated his time back to the first guy >> to be able to speak with the first. >> No >> no I think I think you did it the right way by allowing the opportunity for
others to speak and then because there was space available >> you did you did that right again. >> Okay. And we do have a provision in your rules that allows people to seed their time to to somebody else. Um, now that said, since we're going to start talking
about possible changes, I I would note that most other jurisdictions do have when you have folks showing up as part of an organized group that they be required to nominate a speaker for the group rather than taking up so many slots on the speakers list. And they
typically get more time to speak. Um in in my prior jurisdiction it was they got 10 minutes to speak as for the group. Um I've seen other jurisdictions in uh in Virginia is typically more like five minutes um up from two or three. Um but
what that does is let's say you have a group who really wants city council to fund a new pool, right? and the group and the citizens for for new pools group shows up and they take up all 18 slots and they got eight more people ready or they got take all eight spots and they got eight more people lined up to speak
on the wait list as well. Well, then the citizens who wanted to show up and talk about um they can't get the pothole filled on their street or whatever their issues they're getting kind of crowded out of the process is the idea. So would you be interested in exploring some kind of a representative group kind of
function? >> I think if we did that it would have to be an option people could opt for not a requirement that people would have to do as a way of introducing it. We might
then change that later. But I think if that is something we want to think about it can't it can't be all at once. Does that feel >> Yeah, because I'm trying to think of the what's the unintended consequence of that. You would have a formal group that wanted to informal, >> but there's a lot of people that are
aligned with that group's chat and they come up and sign up to >> Yeah. And they don't have an official organization that they would talk about it together in advance, >> right? Um so then you've given the group five minutes and we're still going to hear about it from the rest of the
folks. Um, >> yeah, you're right. Um, I don't I don't >> The question that lingers is, are you are you concerned about who else you're not hearing from in a moment like that when the issue is what it is and it takes up the spaces? That's the
question. >> Yeah. And I think it might be just how it is. >> That's part of the reason why the lottery was formed was to >> just mix it up without any bias. So, our office doesn't just pick and choose.
Okay, this is who we who should speak. Um, but we >> put those first signed up into a scrambler and whoever gets those first eight slots is who gets the slots. The others are on a wait list, but they're only moved off the wait list if someone
doesn't show up >> from the lottery slots. >> Otherwise, they have to raise their hand when they >> because we don't work the weight list at all. The weight list disappears after the eight have spoken. Yeah, >> that's correct. >> With regard to uh community members, I've seen deviation from this slightly.
Um the rules do provide that the second opportunity to speak at the end of the meeting is for people who did not get the opportunity at the beginning of the meeting >> and that doesn't have a cap on it, does it? >> It's unlimited speakers. >> I do think it's unlimited speakers. Um >> but you're saying that it should begin
with people who did not who have not already spoken first. It says >> it says it was specifically for people who did not get the opportunity to speak earlier. >> So not a second time that's something different. Yeah.
>> I didn't realize that. I thought it was that it was open for anyone else to anyone to come and say something and it was unlimited based on however many people wanted to speak. >> So if they spoke at the first part, >> they don't necessarily get a chance to
speak at this. What? Is there you know um it's doesn't help happen a lot but it is sometimes people wait around and want to speak again. >> And sometimes yeah I mean people are responding to what happened at the meeting.
>> I think it's they're not guaranteed a second spot but if we want to grant them a second spot we can. Here's what the rule says. >> Does it say >> a second community matters session will be offered at the final agenda item at each regular meeting during which individuals who did not speak during the first community matters period may be
given an opportunity to address council. >> So you could at least prioritize them because they never got a chance to speak. And then if anyone else wanted to speak you could add that as a line as a change or not. >> Yeah it could be. Well I do think they would require a change to these rules because right now it seems to explicitly
say they may not speak there. So if you want to change those rules, I can I can make that. >> If you want to keep it as is, I can do that. >> Well, I think since we haven't been following this rule, >> we should change it to match what we have been doing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So make it so that folks who did
not have an opportunity have a chance to speak first. >> Prioritize and then >> and then if anyone wants to speak a second time, they have to wait for the other people to go first. >> That's what I've been been doing. >> Okay. >> Is everyone okay with that? Lloyd Michael. Okay.
>> Yeah, I won't make that. >> It hasn't really been a problem. I We had some meetings back in 2020, 2021 where things went on and on and on and on and on, but under current leadership, nobody dares to abuse the system that way.
>> Yeah. >> And agenda management so that you don't have too many action items in case that >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um, good. I will make that change and I'll present it uh when present you these various rule changes which brings me to some of the things that we are
going to consider. So the >> um sorry was there a bullet about seating time? >> Yeah, it's in here. Let's see. >> The person has to be present with you something like that. >> Yes, that's right. Um >> thanks
D. Yes. >> D. Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. >> D1. >> Oh, D1 BI. >> D1BI. That's it. >> Yes. Speakers may concede their allowed time. The person whose name is written on the speaker sheet must be the person
who begins speaking. Although they may be accompanied by others to the podium and may share their time with them. Each speaker shall be given a clear state of name and place of residence or speak on behalf of business by giving the location of the business. >> Oh, okay. But that is a little different than we've been doing. We've been allowing the person who's doing the
speaking say, "I'm going to take >> Well, that that is starting. >> They say I concede my time to X. >> They're starting the speaking. Okay. >> That is them starting the speaking. >> Well, I do think that that's actually two different provisions kind of within the same section. So, speakers may concede their allotted time. The person
on the speaker sheet must be the person who begins speaking. Um I think but when they seed the time it doesn't really really >> that doesn't count. >> It doesn't really matter is what I'm getting down to. Whether they say Sam say I'm seeding my time or whe they get to the podium and say I hereby seat my time and then the person walks down. It
doesn't really matter. >> Question is supposing two different people seed their time to the same person. So that person effectively gets six minutes to speak. We had that situation come up a couple times a few years ago. >> Well, I'm not sure I >> under these rules. These rules don't
contemplate that. So I I would probably say that >> um they that would be okay. I mean you're seeing the time. I want this person to have additional time to speak. I had this time. I'm giving them time. >> That is getting to what you talked about earlier about having an allotted speaker
for an organization getting additional time. That kind of is in effect that same thing. >> But if they're if the part of the first eight, it won't be in a row necessarily. >> It might not be right. Mhm. >> They have to come back up. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> But if if some whether it's in in the numbers 9 through 16 or whether it's there, you know, at the at the tail end, what what happened? It was during the debate on the zoning ordinance, excuse me, where there was a a big
question that some folks wanted to raise about infrastructure, whether the infrastructure was capable of sustaining all of the the units that were being arguably suggested. And they had a long
letter and person number one says I concede I seed my time to Joe Blow. Joe Blow gets up. We cut him off after three minutes. Next person gets up. I too conceded my time to Joe Blow. And Joe Blow then goes on and reads the next three minutes of the letter. And this
went like three or four times. A person spent about 10 minutes reading this very lengthy letter. Um, you question is, is that something that we care about one way or the other? Is it something that we say, "Oh my goodness, they're gaming
in the system. We can't allow that." Um, it's I think it's important to note that you always have the option to modify your rules by motion. You can modify your rule in the moment. I vote that we actually modify the rules to allow this uh speakers
additional time or allow people to seed their time. However you want to do in the meeting, whatever you do have that ability. Yes. Motion second and a vote that will u accomplish that. So um if there is a particular situation that comes up with regard to needing
additional time or you see something like that where people just keep seeding their time to this one person you might go ahead and grant that person additional time so that even those people don't have to seed their time to the person they can also speak but it's up to you. What I'm telling you is you
have flexibility around these things. >> That doesn't bother me too much. >> Yep. That's a that's a great question. I hadn't thought about that. So, moving on to some of the suggested changes. I'm going to give you the easy
one first. And Jenn already brought it up. Um, you know, I I I like Kina a lot and I I worry about her her voice running out sometimes. I think good god somebody get that lady a glass of water. Um there is no requirement in Virginia
law, Robert's rules of order, um the movement of the spheres that requires that the consent agenda be read aloud. Um if you want to uh adjust that particular practice or do away with that particular practice, this was something I suggested
maybe my first week here after my first meeting and Ken said, "Well, let's wait until the retreat and talk to the council about it." >> Um I understand that there might be accessibility concerns around them. Maybe that's a good thing for that. But our agenda is accessible. It should be. If it's not, I I believe that we've
actually gotten it accessible. So, it's readable through screen readers and there are various ways to access it. And if there's still concerns about it, I would say that we even add a provision to that that boiler plate that's at the beginning of the agenda that says if you have issues with or need provision of this read to you, let city staff know
and we will make sure that somebody can actually read this to you. But rather than having to spend this time reading out the consent agenda in every jurisdiction I've ever worked in, and I' I've I've done inform I did an informal poll at the LGA convention this year. Who you all read your consent agenda? They all said, "God, no." Um,
typically is um have all council members had an opportunity to review the agenda? Do I have a motion, a second to adopt the agenda? So moved, seconded, vote, you're done without the need to do that. It might be five minutes of your life, I'm giving it back, but over 23 meetings, that's
Yeah, I'm trying to I think it's up on the Is it up on the screen? >> It's It's It's um Yeah, it's posted as it goes. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> yeah. On the screen. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. But if anyone's like watching
listening from home, I guess they if they're >> if they're visually impaired, then they would have >> they would have a screen reader. a screen reader anyway for a live meeting.
>> The assumption is that they would. I mean, we can't know that for sure, but >> I can say that we there have been occasions, very very limited occasions where there's been a challenge of some kind uh that we've had to accommodate. I can think of one individual who's
requested that we mail the agenda and it's been a regular thing. We do that. She requests that paper copy be mailed to her. Um, and I think it's only because she's not really a computer person, so getting it that way is not an option. So, we that's an accessibility
matter in our mind. Um, I don't think there's been any other instance that I've called. I've asked spec specifically on where we might have heard because our assistants are the switch forward for the city. Um, if there were a challenge that were to
arise, we would address it. And I think what I could do is bring it back um for John to point that out for further action if something were to come up if you were to make this change. >> Well, so it's not nothing about it is written in here. It's just a practice that we haven't do. So we wouldn't need to make any changes, >> right?
>> Because the assumption would be that you wouldn't read it because it doesn't say to read it. >> But I think before before we alter that practice, we want to make sure the council's good with altering that practice. >> Yeah, I'm fine with not reading the consent agenda. >> Ko, do you have any input?
No, I thought about it for a long time, too. Um, but in my former locality, we just read a statement. Um, well, the mayor would read a statement just saying we'll dispense with the reading of the consent agenda. Is there a motion? Um, >> so pretty simple.
>> Leaving the opportunity to pull something from the agenda because that's always your perview, >> which hopefully would have been decided already, but it might have just been raised by something that somebody just said. So, >> did y'all good with that then? >> Great.
>> Easy one. >> I won't I won't die on the hill because I really don't feel that passionately about it, but I >> I don't see why we would not read it. Um but because I think a lot of people watch um at home and a lot of what we do is their education through there and it
just seems like a small accessibility thing there. But um >> yeah, I'm kind of inclined to agree. If you're listening to everyone else, if the rest of the meeting can be listened to with like closed eyes and just abs like absorbed that way, it would feel
kind of strange to have this which is a relatively brief interlude. >> Um >> it's not read aloud. That's a small amount of information um you know efficiency but you know we've I think added more a lot more is now on the
consent agenda that would have been like a presentation in the past in terms of like community awareness of like what we're doing back to that point about like you know communicating our wins um but reading it is not you know the most
>> yeah the amount of time it takes is probably less like accumulated over the years less than we've spent discussing it right now. >> So I think it has kind of a it's a unless Kina objects it's a small amount
of effort for kind of a possibly ease of access payoff that's could be worth it. >> So for me again I'm going to I'm going to you know I'm going to be there so it's not a timing thing for me. Um it's
um so I'm hearing that we may want to consider having it read. Lloyd, what you want to >> I I I care about this much either way. >> Doesn't matter to me. >> Yeah. >> So um you know for
you know I would lean we can continue reading it. I I would support that. >> Fair enough. It's it's your it's your meeting. Um would you like to have that captured in the rules? Just want to keep it as >> and keep it as is. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> One quick question though, just thinking
about it. Um, and well, because I'm I'm the manager of the agenda for you. Are have you felt in any way that there have been items that appeared on consent that you would have preferred that they not be? Is there any indication you can give me in that regard? I will continue doing
what I'm doing with the teams, but I'm just curious as to >> is there anything? I would say yes, but I recognize it's a tough, you know, it's a real balance between efficiency versus I think a lot of what the meetings are, you know, about us making decisions and
that's the most important thing. Um, but a lot of it is that's a place where community is educated on an issue as well as that's a place where media will pick a story up. So I think it's important as an avenue to communicate our wins. So I can think of like big positive initiatives that um have
happened around like climate efficiency or you know the Ryana where just a five minute update would like communicate to the public oh we're doing this and when it's on the consent agenda I don't think the public like >> they don't get >> they just don't pay attention to things
we do but I recognize you know you don't >> there's a balance of efficiency and you don't want staff to be >> and perhaps we could do something like where it stays in the consent agenda But you send a note in advance like, "Hey, can we highlight this?" And then during council, city manager report or
something, we can say, "Hey, we just want to point out that on the consent agenda, these three things happened, which are big wins and we're excited about them." And then it's not the whole procedure and vote and presentation from staff and all of those additional um measures, but we still get the
highlight the sort of thing. I try to think through um when might be the last time that you all have heard about something even if it feels a bit routine for us because we've been doing this work for a while but we're getting a new grant or something like that. So sometimes I will pull and
say I just think council needs an update on this particular activity. We'll just make it an action item and go forward. But I think that might be another way >> because if it's something that's like that I mean we all have the agenda in advance. We can always pull ask to pull it >> before the day
>> and >> in your review you can be letting >> Yeah. And that way you keep doing what you're doing and if there's something we want to pull out to celebrate or want to pull out to have a conversation or want to pull out to have a different vote we let you know. >> It might be for a positive reason. >> Yeah. I like that. >> Um which you know we can try to do it in
advance but if not we do it the day of. >> Does that help? Does that satisfy >> your current keep going but your request to >> Yeah. I was just curious if there was any any sensibilities towards
>> I I wish we would pull this certain type of thing off consent and and put it as an action. That's all. >> I don't have any rules to add to that. But >> yeah, I think for the most part your judgment has been fine. And if some issues were >> we'll just ask for it to be that particular one
>> which we can do in advance or day of. >> Yeah. The consent agenda is just a tool. It's an efficiency tool, right? And if if it's working for you, then great. If it's not, then we can make changes on it. It's not in either at that meeting or um in advance >> because it only takes one request to pull it off consent. Correct.
>> So, we've got, you know, all those days to think about. >> So, this kind of brings me the the second matter I've got logged here, and that's uh matters requiring first versus second readings. Um and I was not this is not because I think anything's acting improperly. Um, and it's because the C
first and second reading structure is more complex than it needs to be, and it's easy to misunderstand. Um, it contains category by category rules. Some ordinances require two readings unless waved by a supermajority. Some resolutions may be adopted immediately. Some fiscal items must wait regardless
of circumstances. Um, this is all very legally sound, but difficult to explain and occasionally confusing. Um, it's it's something I'm certainly not aware of. There are certain ma matters that have to be that cannot be adopted at the same meeting in which it is introduced, but they're not many under state law.
Um, and so it's important, I think, to think about what are second readings meant to accomplish, provide additional time when more time is needed, uh, allow for further deliberation uh, or public input. And, uh, it's it's not an inm
second reading is not an in and of itself, but it's a procedural safeguard. So with that in mind, I I've thought a lot about this and I understand that it's important you don't want folks to all of a sudden get surprised when something all of a sudden is law before they had a chance to speak on it. Um so
I would propose but I do want to propose a change to because I do see this as a constant source of confusion and agita for staff members really. Um essentially what I would propose changing is the default right now. The default for so many items is two readings. Um, what I
would suggest is unless state law requires otherwise, any matter could be approved at the meeting where it is introduced. All right. But kind of along lines we're talking about with the consent agenda, if any two members request it, not even a majority requested, the item would automatically
require second reading at the next council meeting. You're changing your defaults there. Um, it doesn't eliminate the second reading requirement. It shifts the control of it to uh you know a minority uh council, replaces the supermajority waiver that
we have for a limited number of items and replaces it with a minority protection that two members of council can say I would like this to be a second reading. Um doesn't change the notice requirements, doesn't change the public hearings or public comments. um item remains fully
discussed in public and it allows y'all to control the pacing rather than having rigid coke categories. And I got tell it's gonna you know Sam requires folks to be there if it's a first reading or a second reading. Um it's going to mean council uh staff members are not going to have to be there quite as often um
for those second readings. So what I'm asking for today is would y'all are y'all maybe okay with changing that default? If that if you are, I would need to prepare I've already prepared some draft amendments to the city code because this is not a function of your rules, but a matter of city ordinance where the first and second reading
requirements come from. Um, and if we do this, I would of course it would have be a staff report and public process to make this change, but I wanted to get y'all's feelings on before I went forward. >> Do you have an idea of how many items that would affect?
>> Um, do I have a quantitative number for you? or like or percentage. >> Um we can think about the number of uh of items that show up on the on the agenda as second reading one two of two readings, right? As a lot of it's like you know accepting grant funding,
certain appropriations that y'all are making. Um >> like those go on >> a lot of consent agenda stuff. >> Consent agenda stuff. >> Yeah. I would I would say I don't support that just because I can't think of any situation where it's prevented
something from happening and if it is time-sensitive we can always wave it. Um, and I just much prefer where this the default is the safeguard of an additional time for the community to see it and have input because obviously most
of the time it doesn't matter. But I can definitely think of numerous times where it's had a huge impact that there was a second reading and it's something that council would have never requested a second reading because that time period was the public catching something that
we didn't see. Um so the default giving more time for that I mean to me I feel like is just a um a small but positive thing to empower the community and again most of the time it doesn't matter but I mean there are real instances where they've caught a mistake we've made or um sometimes it's smaller in terms of a
typo or you know um but I've been in favor of the supermajority one readings quite frequently mostly for getting Anthony his block grants. Um
um so I'm do you have some more examples of when it's been super useful to have the second one? >> I mean a very high-profile one I mean Paraguin is an example where I think that was a second reading you know second reading on the consent agenda that it was raised as a concern by a
member of the community. um and uh issues with um it's arguable whether the recent one about the um uh the conveyance to the foundation if how the amount that would have been paid no matter what. But in the past there were
similar conveyances for very low dollar amount that were caught by the community and like that's not fair market value um you know a year or two ago. With respect to that, the process does require that would be an instance where we would need to have a second matter come up because what you all do is you authorize me to
go and then do the negotiation and then it comes back to you. That would not change under this. >> Yeah. >> Because that's a that's a defined process. >> Yeah. Um, >> and as I say, if if you get a sense during a meeting that that something
like paragan or something that is going to be more contentious, I you always had the option to kick it to a second meeting. That's that's the idea. >> Yeah. And I think par I mean that's not the only one, but that's an example of like that first reading. None of us would have requested a second reading
because it just wasn't on our radar that like people were even concerned about it. John, what what was your recommendation? Again, >> essentially, we have all these various provisions that require second reading is the default for most actions that city council takes according to
appropriation. Really, it's just certain resolutions where you're not appropriating money >> um are going to only require a single reading, but just about everything else requires um two readings. And some things can be waved, but not everything can be waved, especially when it comes to appropriations. Those all require two
readings. What I'm suggesting is changing the default. So the default is uh a single reading for most matters unless otherwise required by by either process or by state law. And then um but if two council members can agree or
however you want to set it, if you want to be a majority council, you want to be a single council member, however you want to set it, um it can become a uh second reading requirement, >> right, >> for any particular item. I I support I support that. >> I think what we're what we're looking
for is clarity for staff first part of this. Um because we've confused ourselves. That's being honest. >> Um we now have staff who put an item on the agenda and they're not sure what they're supposed to put in parenthesis, one of two readings or nothing because
it's one reading only. So we need to get clarity on that as a process matter. Um, and as much as I want to have the back of my folks and say that we can try to avoid them having to come back for a second meeting, I don't want that to be a driving force. Um, if you want a
second reading, we'll be prepared to deal with that. Um, but where we can lighten it, I guess, is why there's an option to potentially consider that. >> Is there a way is there a for the staff who have to put whether or not it's one or two readings and aren't
sure? Is are there some things that where instead of a blanket rule there's just like a way to clarify >> it will without changing them. >> However you decide on this right now is going to clear it up. We're just going to have to make sure we
>> So you said there are some things that are like by process or by state code have to be two readings. >> They're very very few. >> Very few of those. Okay. >> And those are easy to set. >> Yeah. It's really when you for instance holiday drive because we were appropriating so y'all are approving so
much very much money that triggers a provision if 1% of your budget is going to be appropriated that requires a public hearing and uh it needs to be >> that's too any public hearing >> no not any public hearing you can you can do it a single meeting
>> one that big um I'm willing to to keep it as is but I think if so I'm going to be asking for the supermajority more frequently than I've been doing it. >> Well, no, the supermajority only applies to a narrow subset of u all overall
things you do. Really, it's just general ordinances. >> Oh. >> Um any appropriations >> still would be >> that that's not in there. >> Okay. But if we went with the new default, it would take two to add a second reading to anything. >> Yes. Take two council members to >> So it's not as narrow as the general
ordinance for >> Yeah. So the risk is if we don't notice that paragan second was on there and we don't we do everything as a first reading the public can still come and
express the mistake, the disappointment, etc. But it's only had one reading. It's done. What happens then? But they just there's no bringing it back. There's no Let me be highly dependent on on the
matter whether it's something you could unwind. Yeah. >> Typically, you know, once staff has authority to go take an action or to pay money or to receive money or to appropriate money, they're doing it once they get the authority to do so. >> Yeah. And the theory is
if people if it gives more time for someone to notice what's on the agenda if there's a second reading, but if people know it's only going to be one agenda, maybe they're paying closer attention, but maybe they're out of town. So, >> I'm just not aware of any situation
where um there being two readings has created an issue where a grant couldn't be received or money couldn't be dispersed or something couldn't happen in time. >> It's all Yeah. I mean, we've worked through it. There have been moments where you all have just inquired or we have led with the idea that if we can
get this approved in one motion, we would like that because this is the rationale for it. We would continue to do that >> I think >> because then we wave the second reading >> if you can but only for certain things ores um and actually we do a lot more
through resolutions appropriating money. >> Well, could we change that? Could we make it so that more than just general ordinances could be waved? Certainly. >> And so instead of defaulting to one, we keep it as is, but now more things we can override with the four fifths.
>> Certainly, >> I think that would be more comfortable. >> Certainly up to you. >> That seems more Yeah. So would you then for the four fifths would you always refer to
voting waving the second reading or would a four fifths vote make it automatic or you know if all five were unanimous would that make it automatic approval? >> Yes. >> I think it would be waving the second reading. Right. >> But in waving the second reading, isn't
that approving it? >> That's approving. >> That's proving it. Yeah, >> it's not it's not putting it on the consent agenda for the next time. It's >> it's approval. >> It's done. >> So, let me do a run a show because I'm I get to play the new kid >> because you should Okay, >> make sure you understand.
>> We have we have this thing. Um we're all like this is a no-brainer. >> I say I make a motion to wave the second reading of this thing. >> You second it. >> We vote. Mhm.
>> All five of us say, "Yep, let's wait the second reading." That implies this thing goes as it is right here today. It's approved >> and we don't have to do a second reading. Yes. The end. >> And that's something we can currently do, but only on general ordinances. And so my suggestion would be expand what we can do that on.
>> Great. Let's expand what we can do that on. >> So that a default is still two readings for the things except for the what it's not supposed to be. And then if we want to four fifths wave second, we can. >> Mhm.
>> During the same motion, you make a motion to approve such and such. Waving the second reading. >> I see what your question is. Yes. So it would be there's not two motions that are needed. One to wave the second reading and one to approve. It would be >> it's a simplified. It's one single action.
>> By voting four fifths to approve this, we wave the second meeting. >> Yes, we can we can figure that out. Um I would maybe ask for one addendum to that. Is it possible to wave second reading for all matters that can appear on the consent agenda because that would eliminate so much and because the
consent agenda is already supposed to be for routine non-controversial items. >> That's what I was going to ask. Wasn't it? I thought it was already I thought that's what it was. >> Often times the consent agenda is is full of two twos. >> Okay. And then all those materials move over to the next agenda. So then that makes the next agenda that much bigger
for you to have to weed through. >> Wait, what? All of the materials that are read for a first reading transfer over to the next agenda for the >> two packets like 300 pages. >> So the packets are larger because of >> whereas if the consent agenda was just
if it's going on the consent agenda, it's a one one shot which means your list is shorter to read and our packet is smaller because it doesn't have a repeat >> performance. Right. >> Yeah. >> I just don't see how
That's an issue. I mean, again, Peragan was on the consent agenda. So, it's I mean, it's the same issue of just I would just I I think it's always best to defer to the community having greater ability for input. And I've never had an
issue with the fact that something is on an agenda a second time. Like, I'm aware of that and click on another item, but So there's a couple different >> Can I get a motion
because I'm think I've So can you John just explain what you have proposed and what um >> what do you think you heard? >> So yeah, let me try and capture maybe what we've got going on here. So I proposed initially um making the default a single reading with the option for two
council members to to make it into a second any item uh require second reading. That was the the issue on the table. Um I heard a proposal to actually expand the number the items that require a supermajority to wave the second reading. Um so right now it's just
general ordinances that would then go to appropriations above Chris. Was it $5,000 typically that require second reading? um we would extend to that but also um certain matters involving taxes and and other matters as well could require uh could are eligible to be
waved by a four-fifths vote, right? Um there's that. There's also possibly amending that with the idea of um in addition to expanding the use of the four fifth vote also um any item that appears on consent agenda would not need
require a second reading for passage. So that's sort of the the menu you'll have to choose from >> or leave things as is. That's that's also always your option. >> Um so I'm I'm just going to kind of go around get people's thoughts so we can
move on from this is kind of starting to feel like a me. Lloyd, what what do you say? >> I'm sort of inclined towards Michael's view. Uh but and I also note that we've now spent longer talking about it than
we have spent implementing >> in any decision. >> Honestly, on the staff side, it's a lot of time trying to work out the what requires what. I've provided charts and it's still >> still a matter of confusion. >> We're going to retrain no matter what, but I we got to we just need the
clarity. >> Yeah. Well, I'm fine with the approach that Natalie laid out in terms of expanding through resolutions. What can be second reading can be waved >> under four fifths? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The middle ground seems to be
leave the consent going double expand our >> Is there >> optionings >> wrinkle? Um, is there would we have the option of looking at the consent agenda and saying
these three things, let's wave the second reading for them on the consent agenda so that they don't have to appear the next time. >> Would that need to be part of adopting the agenda >> or would that have to like we say, okay, items four, five, and six, we're approving the consent agenda but waving
the second reading on items four, five, and six. >> Um, we could do it that way. I think it might be a little confusing in the moment, but I think we can do it that way. Um, I also feel like if we were to part of the reason why I propose saying anything that's on the consent agenda um
is not um does not require a second reading is because y'all pull anything that you want to have considered. So, a way to maybe handle that and we just had just moved this up in the meeting. So, let's say there's a matter that uh y'all want to have uh considered separately or
that you do not want to be just automatically wait for a second reading. You would pull from the consent agenda, vote on it separately there, and then it would unless you waved it >> default to a second reading. >> It would default to second reading. >> H >> yeah, we've we've spent too much time on
this. >> Sorry, but I again I feel the core problem is what are we we wouldn't do that because will miss something the public would see that we didn't. >> Yeah. Okay. Let's just stick with expanding four fifths. >> Okay. Far enough.
>> Do we have a four-fifths vote on that? >> Yes, >> it looks like it. Thank you. >> And I wouldn't raise this stuff if it wasn't of I really feel like importance to city staff to talk through and I >> which we're going to talk about this in the extended lead team meeting next month kind of as our retraining moment.
No, cuz this it is important to consider staff capacity in all of this as well. >> Yes. >> So, we'll have to do a good job of paying attention to the agenda items on the consent moving forward. A little more attention, I should say.
>> Okay. So the the the final matter I'm going to raise as for something possible change is I so since I've gotten here I've I've been combing our code as much as as time allows to see what needs to be updated what and what I'm looking for is surprises things places where in the
code where I'm surprising and not without because just where it's different from where I've done it before doesn't mean it's wrong doesn't mean that it's it's just different and where I I see things that are like that I I will flag them and one of those that I have flagged is the way that we handle settlement authority here. So most
thing, most of our matters, litigation, negligence claims, bus hits a bus hits a parked car, whatever happens, we put Versa, it's handled as a claim and it gets paid out through Versa. But there are categories of things that are paid from our risk management fund. And
oftentimes those will involve um employment claims, those are going to fall outside of ERA, but also some other things related to land use, whatnot. Um, right now in my prior jurisdiction, the city attorney had $25,000 worth of settlement authority and that went up to
and then the city manager had $50,000 worth of settlement authority. Anything beyond that required city council approval to settle in the case. >> Can you say that again? >> Uh, city attorney had $25,000 of authority. The city manager had $50,000 of authority. And anything beyond that required uh council approval in order to
uh pay out and settle a claim. Um, Virginia, what I'm seeing in and looking around the various jurisdictions throughout the state, a lot of time the city manager doesn't have settlement authority. It'll be just with the city attorney. I don't I don't think that's the best practice. However, here I have
$5,000 worth of uh settlement authority. Um, I can uh finance director can be authorized by me five pay 5,000 and up to 15,000. If Sam and I both concur, we can pay out uh a claim and that's it. When was the last time that number those
numbers were raised? >> Pretty recently, actually. Really, just in the last few years. Um, and I think there's some historical reasons for that. And I think it has to do with uh wanting to maybe I don't know, Sam can maybe speak to a little bit better than
I can or maybe not, but I think maybe there's some prior trust issues with previous city managers and the councils and maybe there's a will less willingness to um extend that authority. And what I propose is giving some additional authority because it allows us to move quickly to make decisions
without having to um to bring to y'all and also sometimes to not make matters that are personnel related public um unnecessarily and sometimes that can be a bar to settlements because uh somebody who would be inclined to settle if it's
going to all of a sudden be put up in a public meeting or a matter of public debate they might not be inclined to settle. >> It wouldn't be a close session item. >> It would be a close session item. we still have to vote on these things in public and I don't you know I I I think that you have more uh exposure to things
becoming more public around a confidential settlement if it is discussed in a public meeting or if it's the subject of a of a matter on an agenda. >> Um the 25 and 50k that you mentioned earlier those numbers come from other
jurisdictions. >> That's that's from my previous jurisdiction. That's what we did. I've seen um I was looking today. I think Rono has $20,000 for their uh city attorney. I think uh Newport News I saw 25,000. >> So yeah, that was my question is like are they comparable budgets to ours?
>> Um I think they're comp kind of jurisdictions. >> Ron Oakish is you know like is their budget like three times as much? So they're like yeah $50,000 whatever. >> News is bigger but Ron Oak is ours is is close because the gas utility dropped us up.
And how often are we likely going to need to use this? >> You know, uh, men plan God laughs. Uh, it's it could be it could be not be used for a year and then it could be used 10 times in a year just depending on the nature of
>> that's my other question is is that cumulative total or per incident? >> Per incident. It' be a payment out of the risk fund. And what I would suggest and and Sam actually raises when when in our discussions about this was that no matter what we do, it needs to be paired with a rigorous reporting requirement to
the city council. So that would be something that we could just do in a city count in a closed session tell you that we have paid out the settlement either it could be subject matter based if we settled something around a certain subject matter care about or a dollar threshold. We can report that out to
y'all. Um and reporting that out to y'all does not mean it needs public. You got to go back into open session and vote on it. So >> yeah, I I will be supportive of the 2550. >> Okay.
>> U Michael, what are your thoughts? I >> mean, I'm open to increasing it. I mean, I don't I just don't know um what other Virginia comparables are. Um I would certainly agree reporting to city council would be important just to have
a sense of >> But it's happening. Yeah. >> Right. What's kind of going on organizationally >> and I think that's probably I mean I would think it would be a very low threshold for reporting. >> I don't think I want to hear about it every time that we have somebody dings a
car, but I do think there are matters that you are going to want to know about. And I do agree the threshold is relatively low. >> But an awkward frequency could still justify the same thing. If we were having multiple staff car accidents, >> right, >> then you might want to be aware of that. So you can say something to me about,
now tell me how you're working on fixing this type thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Jen, what what are you? >> I'm okay with this. Yeah, the 2550 sounds fine. >> Natalie, you you okay with it? >> I'm okay with the idea of raising it. Yeah. I don't know what the right number is. I also don't know if I
need to get a full report on >> you 25. It won't be a >> I think that's sounds probably reasonable. >> Louie >> 2550 is still within the range of settle what can be done through general district court. I think there's some
precedent for realizing that that's not the big issue. I'm okay with that. >> Yep. Okay. >> Great. Then I will prepare that and I'll bring it back to y'all for that will need to be an ordinance change as well. >> And are you going to include reporting recommendations >> and and I want to give credit to do that's something Sam has said from the
beginning. No matter what change we make, we make sure that we are reporting that and that's a requirement that be reported to the council. >> Yeah. >> And would you would you have the combo power of 75 or is that different? >> If that's something y'all want to grant, I mean that'd be up to y'all, but
>> presumably not. >> Yeah, seems like a big number all of a sudden. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, right now the way it's structured is Sam and I have to agree up to 15, right? So if you want to make so we agree up to 50. I think that's better. You have two checks there.
>> Okay. >> All right. So I think I have direction. I'll I'll work on that. And y'all y'all have done a yman's work in a very short amount of time. So I appreciate it. Um I think we have a break then we do. >> We were supposed to have a break but we're past your time. If you want to keep going right through it for maybe 5
minutes for five minutes. >> What was three? Is that next? >> That's what you're about to do. >> Next. Yeehaw. >> That's why he's so excited about getting to it. >> I can't do it again. >> Remember remember how we didn't do the foyer training because I said we're gonna do it here.
>> Yesterday. >> All right. Again. Kina can attest. I was an A+ student all day. >> Did you do your Koya training yesterday? >> Yes. I mean, but that's but which only brought more questions because it was so intricate. >> Did they fix the website yet?
>> No, they had no they had no website, no slides even. and they're like, "We're not even slides. We're just going to talk to you about >> I had to download an old version of whatever like Microsoft Edge is in order to access the website. It doesn't work with Firefox or Chrome or >> Did they get hacked or something or just
haven't >> they just haven't done it?" >> Just agent. >> Just agent. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Welcome to the wonderful world of the Freedom of Information Act. Um, state statute requires that uh within
two months of assuming office uh you have to receive FOYA training and uh then every two years thereafter. Um now this I included some under tab two in your uh binders there there's a copy of
the conflict of interest act and some information about conflict of interest but your your koa training is separate and you have to do that through that state module that I'm sure you all have already had a lot of fun with. Um, so I'm not going to spend time on koa
today, but um, portion of law lets me do your foyer training and I will try to run through this as fast as possible. I will go ahead and maybe I don't know who's the bigger stickler, Natalie or Lloyd. I did see a typo on page I think it was 3
Lloyd. >> So I acknowledge it. I did not. So I uh I see it's fixed in future versions. So we're going to do a broad overview. The idea is to understand your um >> I mean responsibility. >> Yeah, >> we're already missing a quotation mark. >> I know
>> where Oh yeah. >> Um the idea is to understand the process for handling foyer requests and avoid potential problems and liability. So you know there's federal foyer, there's Virginia FOYA, it's all qualified in 2.2-3700 the state code. Two primary
parts and two things to think about records and meetings. It governs the uh access and disclosure of public records and access to your public meetings. So the purpose is to make sure there's ready access to public records, free entry to meetings where the distant people is being conducted and to
increased awareness of all persons and governmental activities and to afford every opportunity to citizens to witness the operations of their government. General rules of every meeting should be open to the public um and that public record should be available for inspection. Not just just city council then there's it's also um all your
commissions all your boards any body that receives the majority of its funding through public funds is going to be a public body that needs to have observe why does it matter it's the law board for democracy and promotes goodwill and confidence in our city government um and
also you and the city can be penalized if so um so there's also personal liability for foy violations and also city can receive uh violations for foya I particularly care about not getting hit with a foyer violation because often times the uh party who brings the
lawsuit gets attorney's fees and I don't want to pay attorneys fees I don't want so let's don't make okay >> and aren't we subject personally to >> can be yes um so who has access citizens of the
commonwealth representatives of newspapers of newspapers and magazines to circulation within the commonwealth and representatives of television and radio stations broadcasting in or into the Commonwealth. So, what is a public record? And this is often a point that
you will see folks get confused on. Um, public record has to do with the content of the record and what it what it's about. The format doesn't matter. The location doesn't matter. No, stop stop marking it up. I see you over there. Okay. I didn't make this. All right.
It's important, but it's the format doesn't matter. It's on your personal phone. It's on your personal computer. It's uh it's in a filing cabinet at your house. If it's about public business, it is a public is, you know, potentially disclosable under FOYA as a public
record. Um still be public record even if possession of an individual city employer officer talked about that. Um include this one. I I liked it. uh Virginia Beach city manager text about punching an official work for a farm and it's because they were on their public
their private phone but the court found that they were sufficiently uh about public business enough to warrant disclosure and never would I ever and I I do like I added slide 12 here because um on page 12 because the way I always say when it
comes to before you send a text before you send an email imagine a guy who looks like me in a room that looks like this with the fluorescent right? Asking you questions about that text and does it still seem funny? Was it still going to seem funny in that moment? >> No, you said reading it aloud to your face under those conditions.
>> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah. >> With without respecting the tone. >> Exactly. You just read it just like that. The cadence. >> Still think it's funny, right? So, >> Abraham Lincoln said, you can always hit the delete button. >> Isn't that Mark?
Um so it's important to note messages and posts in in Microsoft Teams, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp. Um what's the thing that kids use? Snapchat. Um all these things are subject to FOIA. The medium itself is irrelevant. Um so what's the best practice? Don't use public advice to conduct public
business. Um personal advice public business. Do not post about public business to your personal social media accounts. And if you receive emails or text messages about public business to your email or phone forwarded to your um city accounts, your city council accounts, all of y'all have a an email
address. Um >> yes, >> sometimes um there's a email that counselors get that goes to my campaign email, but it goes to everyone else's government email. Is that considered accessible enough that I don't have to
forward that to my >> You don't ever have to forward anything. This is just a best practice. Um that so that way when Monica goes and searches for communications on a certain topic, it's going to show up. >> It's going to show up. It's just going to show that it went to a different email for me. >> I don't think it's going to cause
anybody a lot of conrnation. It's on a case- by case basis. >> Um this is often a a point of contention. I've seen lawsuits about this. Are draft or preliminary versions also considered public records? And the answer is yes. A draft is a public record. The difference is we don't have to retain it, right? it doesn't fall
under the retention laws typically. So if it's a draft and you don't want to ever have it read, then the thing to do is you're perfectly it's perfectly legally allowable to do so. As long as you're not running a foul in the retention requirements under state law, >> as long as you're not deleting it after you've been asked for it.
>> That's Yes. That's the uh when you've got that uh that letter saying preserved, you better keep it no matter what. Exactly. That's uh not FOYA, but that's uh uh the court coming after you. Um, so what counts as a request for records? This is, you know, we're not
supposed to tell direct. We can, but we're not really, it doesn't have the legal significance to direct somebody to our FOYA uh officer or through a certificate, a particular um format or go put into the FOYA for portal. If somebody says, I want these records to
you verbally or in writing, it is a request under FOY and it triggers the requirements. Um, they don't have to mention FOYA. They're asking for records. Hey, I want to see all the all the um plans about this area or or I want to see all of the uh um financial records about this particular matter.
That's going to count as a foyer record request. Um can any public official to one of you individually to the board as a body um they can call up my office or any city employee even. Um a public body may direct request to a form, but it may not insist that it's form be used before it begins to work on a foyer request.
The request is what triggers the requirement. Um, can we require them to provide their name and legal address? Yes, it's because Virginia Foy is a little bit unique in that it uh only applies to um only citizens of the Commonwealth and those other entities that I mentioned
actually have a right under FOY. So, if necessary, we can uh ask that they provide their name and their address, we can confirm they are in fact a citizen of the Commonwealth. So just just quickly um most of the requests now um it does their filter and you or
someone may ask us if you if we have any other >> documents or information or whatever pertaining to whatever it is. Is that >> Yes. >> Correct. >> But then we can't ask them why they're foring. I learned that yesterday. >> No. >> Right. And then if they are out of state, they get a longer time
>> to turn it around. >> Yes. >> Great. C A+. >> So how long does do we have to to reply? Typically it's uh five working days receipt of the request. We need to provide it starts to run the day after the request is received and failure to
respond request for records shall be deemed a denial of the request and constitute a violation of FOYA. So when we respond and and Monica in my office does a fantastic job of this. We have open gov uh software that we use for this. Um, within five public days, the public must provide the records or give
one of the following four responses. They're being withheld under one of Virginia Foye's exemptions. There's something like 55 exemptions. I believe the records are being provided in part and withheld in part. So, here's some of the records, but here the but we're also holding back some records as they're not um because of an exemption. Um, we're
gonna say the records could not be we don't have typically we were say we don't have any records responsive to your request or they could not be found and uh or it's not practically possible to locate or produce the records within five business days and the public body will respond within seven additional business days. Um, if we go if we the
request still requires additional time beyond the seven days, we have to go to court and get an order and I haven't had to do that since we got here. I can't say we will ever have to do that because the request is, you know, un usually large or whatnot, but we do aim to have everything done within that time frame. Um,
when does the response need to be in writing? Um, if any part of the answer is we're not giving giving it to you, the response must be in writing. Identify with particularly the subject matter that we're withholding and cite the specific provision of the code that we're saying exempts the records from
being uh provided. Um, if the answer is we cannot find it or it does not exist, the response must be in writing. And if we know that another public body has the has records, it must provide contact information for the other public body. This happens a lot. We get folks saying, I want this thing. We we we do a little bit of looking and it turns out that
what they really need is help by the county or the airport authority or some other governmental entity. And if the answer is we need more time, then we have to tell them they have to tell them that in writing. Um, must buy credit record in response to a Virginia Foyer request? No, we do
not. And this is one often time what we get are requests for information and not necessarily a public record and then the response is the same. Um, we do not have records responsible to your request. However, you try to work with the system. What are you trying to figure out? What are you trying what do you know? We try to be helpful that way.
That's the direction I've given in the office. >> Um, how much may a public body charge for producing records? uh reasonable charges for the actual cost incurred in accessing new paying or searching for the requested records. We typically will
will peck that cost to the uh person who is actually fulfilling the request um whatever their hourly rate is. We will peg the request to that. Um but we don't factoring expenses such as overhead or the benefits that are paid to employees. um if we're going to charge for copies
which is less relevant today's uh electronic era um is typically the actual cost of duplication that's all we can charge and we have to provide estimates before uh we supply the requested records they can request that we give them an estimate before we do
that um when we determine that's likely going to cost more than $200 we can request a deposit prior to them proceeding with the request can exceed the amount of the advanced termination and we have to credit toward the final cost of supplying the records. And often
times we have we'll ask for the deposit and then that actually um tolls the time to uh fulfill the request. So while they decide whether they want to move forward or not with the uh with the request. >> So is that something that Monica
coordinates now? >> Yes. It doesn't come up much but it does come up sometimes. >> How often are we getting requests? Oh, many every day. A lot. Every single day. We have an engaged constituency. It's it's a feature, not a bug. >> Yeah.
>> I just didn't have a point of reference. >> No. And that's uh something that that we've started doing is tracking more the number of requests again, how quickly we're fulfilling them, that sort of thing. And if you like, I can provide a report on that. Um maybe later in the year. Yeah, I think I just just in general
>> just to know >> because I if you would asked me because >> I don't you know get them personally >> and I don't remember us I don't think we really reported before. >> Right. Right. I would say oh I I don't guess we get too many you know big
>> because we've had I've had to like look at my email a couple of times or like forward things a handful of times but >> just curious quite a bit. No it's a few times a year might not hurt. So >> that's a good point. So I'll uh put that together for a future maybe part of the manager's report sometime >> because we're interested not for I think
any broader cause. >> So before responding to a new request for records if somebody has uh if somebody has put in a request before we fulfill it and they owe money on it um before they put in a new request we can ask they pay that prior request. I I don't know if that's happened before but
it is something we're allowed to do. >> Um we have >> there you go. I I really should just be like Um public body must provide electronic records in any medium identified by the requester if the medium is used in the public body in the request in the
regular course of business. Uh I funny story about this from my prior jurisdiction once had somebody who want a whole bunch of information and I said well to give that to you we're going to need to put that on some on some hard drives like some 5 terbyte hard drives because they hold a lot of video videos
and the person then immediately he said so if you want to provide us with those hard drives we glad to provide you. then he immediately requested five hard drives that we that we provide to him in that format to which I had a lot of fun saying no. Um if the public body has the capability um includes the option posting the records
online or sending to an email address. This is something we started recently doing. It's a it's a a policy change that that I put in place. Um whenever we fulfill a request unless a department has some reason why they don't want this being put up on the site, it is now being posted to the site so anybody can see the fulfilled request that we've put
in. Because often times what we're seeing is people have the same question >> and so this is rather and it's perfectly valid if somebody asks for records to say here's where you can access them online >> and and direct them to that >> and we don't charge the subsequent request because they don't even have to request >> that's right
>> you can just say right there >> um so what should you do if you citizen ask you directly for a record you're obligated to produce the records the um compliance start clock starts ticking when they ask you for the records so what you should do is you should notify Monica in my office. Contact me if you
can't get up with her. Contact my office. We'll start working on the fulfillment side of that and we'll direct you on what to do and what needs to be provided. Okay. Um what information can be held? Well, actually there's approximately 150 record production exemptions in Virginia. Most of them don't apply um to
city government. It's a lot of things like state commissions, various aspects of state government have very specific exemptions. Um now here's the thing. I don't like the site exemption. I'm I'm a little bit of a transparency not when it comes to foyer because here's the thing, judges never side with the city when it
comes to these things for the most part. Um the press is very actively involved in foyer requests and wants to see greater transparency and uh there's a great presumption in the law that records are open and unless an exemption applies and the exemptions all have to
apply very narrowly. So even let's say an exemption applies to a portion of the record but not the entire record. We have to redact out the portions that are possibly confidential or that are exempt and then provide the rest of the information that is public and it the courts in recent years have really
narrowed the ability to use exemptions. >> Wait back to the forge of the officer. Yesterday they were talking about the start clocks start systeming when you receive the >> Yes. >> So not when the requester asked you for
them. It's when you receive it. >> Well, them asking for it is a receipt of the request. >> Well, if you ask for it on Monday and I don't open my email till Friday. >> Yeah, that doesn't apply. >> That does not apply. >> No, that doesn't apply. It's when you receive it. You received it on Monday and you just didn't access it. Yeah, the
foyer council did say it's when you open your email. >> I learned something new today. That's not what >> Well, I can tell you that that has been that has been discussed by multiple city attorneys here um just because of the volume. And we were told that if you
were on vacation, therefore, you're not checking email, if it made it to your box, the clock started ticking when it made it to your box. Oh, we should figure that out because they because they they gave the reference of post >> which is why you're supposed to forward notices and stuff like that. I mean that
that's what we've previously been told. So >> we won't dillydally for sure but just that's what >> it matters cuz it'll get us in trouble. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, >> I won't have stuff like that. So please >> um that says true or false. If an exemption applies the city cannot release the
requested records. Anybody? >> False. absolutely false. It's discretionary. Um there are categories of records that um we cannot release even if we wanted to, but they're very very few and far between, mostly having
to do with uh um DSS and matter again people's personal privacy. Um even body camera recordings in this state, this is this is a big C change for me coming from where I came from. We were not allowed to release those without a public record in my prior jurisdiction. um here it's up to the discretion of the
chief um whether or not to uh to release those. >> So even if there is an exemption um we don't necessarily have to employ it or try. >> So the common exemptions are attorney client privilege uh ongoing criminal or administrative investigations,
>> matters involving personnel information, records from closed meetings, um information concerning unannounced economic development projects for well obvious reasons, and then also the city manager's working papers. And the way to think about the working papers is such as like executive privilege, but also it gets waved the second that it gets
transmitted to somebody else. It's just like any other kind of privilege. Um so the best practice tips don't share communications or forward communications from my office except unless it's very clearly routine or administrative. Um, and really, um, tell you a little. So,
one of the cases I worked on back in the day when I was in private practice was Lehman Brothers, uh, bankruptcy. And, uh, I got assigned to look through the emails of, uh, the head of Lehman Brothers, the the CEO of Leman Brothers. This is the best assignment in the office because he only sent 15 emails.
>> And all of them said, "Guess what? Call me. >> Call me." >> Yeah. So it's if you don't want uh something to be subject to foyer, a phone call, it's going to be very hard to uh foil that. >> Um >> is there a definition of city manager or
paper? >> There is it's it's uh documents and uh advice provided to the city manager by um subordinates. >> That's in a broad term. The CCing of others is a critical component because
you lose that privilege when you CC. >> So if I just send you an email, we could about the propeller budget that's considered a work paper. >> Could be work. >> Could be >> because it's in progress. Yeah. >> So now I'll to Sam's credit, he doesn't
he doesn't use it. There have been instances where I said, Sam, you can use them the working papers exception and he said, "Nope, go ahead and go and put it out." So, but it is still available as a tool in certain cases. Um, so how talking about enforcement? So, it's it's through the courts. Any
person can sue to enforce their foyer rights. A single instance of denial of the rights and privileges conferred by FOYA is enough to show a violation and be awarded remedies. So, we we block somebody's access to a single email to which they are entitled. We can be liable under that for violating FOYA. Um, they're heard on an expedited basis.
I mean, uh, most court cases, you know, the complaint gets filed after discovery, maybe two years later, you get to actually get into court about something. 7 days to get rid of mandamus, you're going to be hearing your foyer case. Um, and unlike another kind of case, the public body, not the citizen alleging the violation, has the burden approved
to show the violation did not occur. The burden is on us. Um, penalties can be assessed against the public body or against individual employers or officers in their personal capacities. Like you're saying, Natalie, individual employer officer willfully unknowingly violates FOYA. The court shall impose a
fine of 5 to2,000 for the first offense or 2,500 for subsequent offenses. Officers may also be fined 100 for each individual record they alter or destroy in order to avoid FOYA obligations. So if you delete a trunch of 10,000 emails,
that's 10,000 instances of $100 each potentially. So this is meant to scare you. >> Yeah. bled from a stone. Um if the citizen wins the case, the court nor the public buy and pay the attorney's fees and court costs which as previously mentioned I don't ever
um talked about. So recap five business days to respond. No need to create a new record. Verbal requests count exemptions are applied narrowly and potential personal liability of course. So I I won't I mean I won't get a I mean
so if someone says I want A, B, and C and I'm like you know it might be after a meeting or something >> and so I can't say can you send me an email on that? I'm >> you can you can say can you send me an email but the obligation still attaches the minute they ask you >> right? So
>> then you would need to say give me your details so I can send a note to the foil officer >> and uh you can say I need to have your name and address in order to confirm they are in fact Virginia resident >> if they decide not to provide that that cancels the request right
>> that that is correct I think it's something we can require prior to initiating request >> so that's that's the records portion right in record time that's the records portion um the uh but of course FOA is twofold public records and applies to public meetings. So again, we just had a
big old discussion about your rules for public meetings and maybe this will be a little bit of a refresher. All meetings of public bodies are open and accessible certain limited exceptions. Public body must receive adequate notice of meetings. They have to be open. The meeting materials have to be open to public inspection and minutes must be
taken and preserved. And coincidentally, because I'm providing you this folder at a public meeting right now, I gave a copy to Kina before we ever got started. So if in case anybody wants to inspect it, that's be available for inspection by the public. So this is available. Um so as a public body, county, cities,
towns, you obviously public body, but your school board, your planning commission, all your advisory bodies that you create. Um any committee, subcommittee or other entity created to perform delegated functions of the public body or to advise it, those are all fair game for holding public
meetings. um that includes you know tourism council any other other entries like that. So meeting is where three or more public officials are assembled or a quorum if the total number of public body membership is less than three and public business is transacted or discussed and
I know that should be a K there for Noah's arc. So really two by twos right this is uh why uh meetings that would have a two by two by one meeting is not a public meeting it's just a because you know
form of the board is not present. So there are times where you might have more than two of you gathered though and is not a public meeting. So generally when employees of the city are getting together that's not a public meeting it's just the elected boards and those bodies. Um
the gathering attendance of two or more public by members in any place or function where no part of the purpose of such gathering or attendance is the discussion or transacting of public business. Such gathering attendance was not called or pre-arranged with any purpose of discussing or transacting any business of the public body. Social gathering or the cocktail party
exemption. And also there might be times where the entire council goes to some other function say a public forum that somebody's putting on a panel discussion a appearance by a candidate when um when some a national figure is coming through
town you can all be there um but you're not transacting public business during that and so that would not constitute a public meeting for purposes of this. Yes ma'am. So last year during the election, uh there was a a candidate forum and so
there were two sitting counselors and I was in the audience >> and I was like, "Oh gosh, public policy is being discussed. There's three of us in the room even though we're not voting on anything." So I left the room just in an abundance of caution. >> But you weren't taking part in the disc. >> I was not taking a part in the discussion. >> You didn't have to leave.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. That would fall under this exception right here. >> Okay. Do I remember that one of the provisions of you know this question of whether the a group a social group has become a public meeting is whether there turns out to be a discussion of
something that's actually on the council's agenda or is it immediately in front of council. In other words, if three of us happen to be at a party someplace and we start talking about something that's going to happen in the city a year from now, that would be different from something that's coming up on the agenda next
week. >> I do think so. Yes. >> Oh, they told us yesterday current or future council discussions. >> Well, >> well, it's got to be something that's reasonably um anticipated and likely if you're talking about, you know, maybe they're going to >> uh maybe we'll have a moon base someday.
I mean, it doesn't it's it's all it's too far. >> They're basically like don't ride in the car together at all three. That was their >> Yeah. And that's that's their job, but I've got to give y'all some practical advice. >> I did. Good. Um so may a public body conduct a conference call or other electronic
um maybe um so there are times when we can conduct an entirely um uh virtual meeting. They're very few and far between um has to do and it's mostly under statewide emergencies and things
like that where we're going to be able to conduct um uh meetings. But I would tell you there are jurisdictions in the state that have made decisions during virtual meetings and then later had those decisions overturned because they were made in a virtual meeting like
their entire zoning code. >> Um something we have some experience with. Right. So um it was actually when we were scrambling this past summer, one of the examples I went to what you guys do. Um unfortunately it was kind of easy for them this whole another meeting and
do it but um fortunately we absent a uh a emergency we shouldn't have any need to do that. Um what counts as public business um the matters of which the government body has supervision control jurisdiction or advisory power business
is on on a public body's agenda or is likely to come before the public body in the foreseeable future. Um, turn my wife off here. But so it's also not sufficient that the topic conceptually could at some point
come before a public bike just like what we were saying. >> So not a moon base, but maybe like a bridge. >> Um, yes. Yes. And or like you know we really need is a bridge right here that you know the closer you get to actionable action by the city council
the more risky run of >> John. One of the questions that has come up from time to time and I don't really understand what I have been told was that if if for example I send an email to the other counselors uh about some
topic that we are we then discuss sort of back and forth in in a reply all kind of a setting have we now constituted a public meeting. >> So the answer is it's highly dependent on the context and the situation. So whenever the communications are going
fast and furious back and forth with I'd say within a few minutes then it starts to seem like has the uh simultaneity of a public meeting and there is >> feels like a conference call >> feels like conference call starts to feel like a meeting but if we're talking about somebody emails I' I've talked to
you about this before and Michael actually pointed out to me that you know it's not as strict as you're making out to be. Um it's uh if you email and then the next day somebody responds and somebody emails the next day and resp then you're probably not going to be getting into the simultaneity managing
to get into a public meeting keeping in mind that all these things are subject to >> FOIA. >> Um but I will say as a best practice and just in the interest of transparency it's best not to deliberate over email just because the public's not getting a chance to get that that input that they want. And I think it's correct. We could
never make a decision over email. Like we could not simultaneously discuss but not be like we want, you know, >> you can't vote. That's right. And so and so if the mayor wanted to call us each in sequence, that would be fine. But if
we all responded, hey, you know, quick poll, what do you all think? That would not be good. >> Then if everybody responded within five minutes of each other, I think we'd we might have an issue. Yeah. which is a danger. Some sometimes when I when I will email you, I'll say, "Please respond to me individually or just
>> right. If you don't reply all, it doesn't count. >> Um, yes, that's correct. You can of course you're allowed to email each other about things. That's completely fine. It's just the uh as a body kind of communications that can potentially run a foul >> and remembering that all of it is voidable,
>> whatever it is. >> Absolutely. >> So, when it comes to open meetings, we are required to provide notice. Um we must give at least three business days notice for regular meetings. Notice reason one for special emergency meetings has to be reason to circumstances must be given at the same time as notice provided the public value
by conducting the meeting. So in your rules you actually say that um we need to do and it's in the city code that council members can call a special so the mayor can call a special meeting or the vice mayor in hisstead. Um or three meet three members of the of the council
can call a special meeting. um they have to give at least five hours notice to the other members of the meeting and that notice needs to be provided to the public at the same time. There is actually a provision in our city code that I think actually runs a foul of state law regarding notice about special meetings. It's not a problem. We haven't
violated anything because we provide notice for any kind of meetings that we're having, but is something I'm going to be bringing forward to suggest a change on it. Um basically says that sometimes for special meetings, no notice is required. >> Oh, >> and that's not not true. So that's something we are going to be fixing. Um
so what is an emergency? It has to be an unforeseen circumstance. Um running the notice that required by FOY impossible or impractical and uh which circumstances require immediate action if we don't have if we don't get together and vote on this the dam is going to break or um the federal
government all of a sudden gave us 24 hours to put in this grant application and we could there's no way we could have foreseen that. that might be the kind of thing that is going to uh trigger a uh an emergency. And we have to include the date, time, and location of the meeting. And of course, I I
understand there might been some issue with this in the past, but this happens quite frankly across the state. I've seen notice must be posted on the public body's website, on a prominent location at which notices are regularly posted, and at the office of the public body's clerk, or if the public body has no clerk at the chief administrator's
office, which Keenan does awesome job on that. So what is that second goal for >> here of the prominent public location? >> Yeah. >> So have adopted the process of that's the front door to city hall.
>> We have the monitors at the front entrance to city hall >> and I also have the digital one by the office. um that's for that. But our website is our city calendar that has all the public readings noticed there. >> And then the front door specifically
because the one outside her office is behind an um security door. >> So that then ensures that all members of the public have access by entering city hall. >> Thanks. >> So agenda materials. Everything that is
furnished in those od by for meeting shall be made available for public inspection at the same time such documents are furnished to the members of the public body which is why I provide g with this thing before I handed you these uh these folders. Um who else is entitled to notice of
meetings? So we provide notice a lot of specific provisions under state law require notice of specific things before we change the zoning code. We have to put notice out. We have to provide specific notice of specific people. a lot of provisions under state law. Public hearings have to be noticed within a certain time frame, not too far
out, not too not too soon before the public meeting to allow the opportunity the public a chance to show up and talk on the matter. Um, but there's also special notice for meetings. Any person who annually files a request for notification of the public body and file receive direct notification of all meetings of that public body. Um, if the
person requesting is not object, we can do that electronically, but like Sam says, we have some folks who need it need it mailed to them and they can ask for that. on the request for notice has to include you know their name address zip code all these various things that's too important um may the public or media record the
meeting absolutely yes um any person can photograph film you are allowed to set um you know don't film here film there right which typically the press sets up in the back of the council chambers and films from the same place not an issue but if somebody was constantly getting up right in the das in your face we
could say you need to go back to the place you need that where you can film getting closer than you can feel. So, minutes shall be taken at at all open meetings. Must be in writing, including date, time, location, record of attendance of members, the record of any uh votes cast, summary, discussion,
and motions are during closed meeting, and certification exiting closed meetings. Um, I write that up before every council meeting when we're going to have a closed meeting. And that's why Natalie, you and I a fun job of of reading >> happy to >> that entire thing up. Um, so we can hold close meetings only for certain narrow purposes. And this is something I want
to be real clear about where it's something we're never going to abuse because it it does happen, I think, more routinely than we care to admit that people go into close session for reasons that are not strictly speaking allowed under state law. So, first of all, to go into close session, we have to have that affirmative recorded vote in open
meeting. We have to identify the subject of the closed meeting, the purpose of the closed meeting and the applicable FOYA exemption and the uh motions that I provide. Y'all do that. Um so there are 55 closed meeting exemptions. That's the number in FOYA. Uh general reference to
FOYA just saying uh that we're going into meeting for uh a reason that's allowed by FOYA. It's not specific. I've actually gotten to where I will cite the specific matter in which we're going into FOY into close session to discuss. So if it's a particular piece of litigation, I'm going to cite the case.
Um if it's a particular matter that we're going to consult about, I'm going to give a general description as much as I can to preserve confidentiality. Um >> and that's why on Monday when we're doing our close session interviews, we still have to go up to the dis say we're
going into close session. >> That's exactly right. >> And we have to come back out >> and close the close session. >> Yes. Um and that's here a little bit later but um closed sessions um you cannot enter a closed session except for an open session in a closed meeting of public it discussion only those matters
specifically exempted it's got so if u I say we're going to go into a closed session discuss a piece of uh litigation we can't then also talk about um some personnel matter that was not decided or um some economic development matter that was decided um we cannot take formal
action there's a vote to adopt an ordinance while in a closed meeting, but you can put you can get the straw vote, right? And you'll say, "Well, how are you going to vote on this thing?" But you can't make a bind decision just like you can't over electronic means. Um, it only become official and legally binding when the public reconvenes an open meeting, reasonably identifies the
substance of the decision, and takes a recorded vote on the item agreed to, discussed in the closed meeting. Um, that's also you're required to do that certification when you come out that no other topics were discussed. Um, and if we don't do that certification,
um, or if certification is not in accordance with FOYA, then we can be fined $1,000 under under the, uh, fetching. Um, so what are the common reasons why we go into uh, close session? For personnel matters, that's the uh, big one. They award public contract
including interviewing biders and discussing the uh, terms of the contract. Unannounced economic development projects um, for legal advice, consultation. There there's two pieces of that. One is for um specific matters where uh litigation has been filed or is reasonably anticipated and
also just legal general legal matters that doesn't have to do with litigation. That's a separate exemption and the purchase of real property or the sale of real property. We're going to talk about pricing and how we're going to do it. We do that in close session. Um next line as you can see can't have a closed
session without having an open meeting first. The closed meeting motion must be made in an open meeting. And guess what? That's the end. Nice. >> Yes. So, unless y'all have any further questions, that's it. That's me. >> I was taking notes. I have 36 questions.
>> Go right ahead. I'm here all day. >> I'm that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm glad you didn't have to stand for that. >> Me, too. >> Yes. Grateful. >> You should have made him stand. >> Sam likes watching this one. And we you
don't have to with this we don't have to do that. >> No, that that's you're going to do the separate out one of my >> All right. So, I'm going to make a few closing comments. But before we do that, I just wanted to give you a chance just
to Was there anything that kind of sticks out from your head from earlier today even uh that you might want to touch on just before we move on? I know you're ready to go, but >> No, no, it was it was one thing that
that came up and and and I you know sometimes I put Keenan in difficult positions um that um I get speakers to come and speak like at the last council meeting I had someone from the president council um to you know I usually tell
them three to five minutes to speak on things and that's something that's not something that's that's typical you know I I I think I've done it two or three times since I've been mayor and um and so she you know Kina brought up a good
point that it's not our typical um procedure and um um but she said was fine for the mayor to have that discretion but it could be something we could mention at this meeting. Is that did I get it right Ken? Is that
>> I think so. if you want to put that as part of your procedures. Um, >> we have been just trying to separate that person, have them speak during community matters because that's the time for public speakers, >> but not counting >> but not counting not taking away a space
from the other registered speakers. >> Yeah. And if we all have someone, we can suggest it to the mayor and get approval >> and and whether that's going to be a thing because we could fill up every meeting something
>> and it maybe even should go I don't I don't know if it should be a city manager thing but >> in developing the um the agenda because typically we have a whole agenda of things that speakers come you know talk about but this was something that you wouldn't have a vote on you know there
wasn't wasn't anything to vote on. The mayor just heard about some programs and thought it'd be good for the public to know about them. >> So, if in that case it would be more of finalizing the identification of that person before publishing >> because I sign off on the agenda so that
Kina can publish it um so that then it would be a known action that's going to happen. She can work that into the final aspect of it. I I don't see this as being something that at least with me happens a lot, but um she you know,
>> it could just be practice for now and then maybe it comes up later as a future procedure. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anything else that you can think of? I'm going to tell you what's next from what we did this morning because I'm sure you're probably thinking, so what comes of that? But I'll tell you that in a second. Is there anything
lingering? Anything that we didn't touch on that you >> might have wanted to touch on? That's >> I know you have a lot going on. >> I'll save it. >> Okay. All right. We'll manage that through you know let us know. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, um the what's next
component of this for me is um the the work that you did this morning with Josh. he will follow up with me uh and then we will engage our comm's team as he kept referencing uh to finalize what that looks like and then we will put
that back in front of you and make sure that you get a chance to look at it and say, "Yep, that still captures our intent because there will be word choices, word changes and adjustments to the actual wording for what you agreed to there." Uh but the goal would be to
make sure that you don't indicate that no that doesn't do it and there's a need for us to have further conversation. We'll then figure out if it does require that we'll figure out when to do that. So what's next is going to be that we will bring that back to you. So you'll be able to take a look at that. The other what's next in regards to that is
when that is finalized that then gets handed over to our strategy team who are going to begin working on the five-year strategic plan based on that particular set of actions um of identification uh of goals becomes the feature of what the
preparation of that document is. And also a what's next is going to be um us making sure that we close out the three-year period uh and get that information back to you. Um John will be
having a a follow-up conversation with the extended leadership team next month on the managing of the changes of procedures especially the one first and second reading just so that we can get that um spread out across the rest of the group. I think that's it. Those are
the main takeaways for the day. I'm going to send you electronically Vienn's presentation and ask you just for another opportunity for you to say, is there anything that you would like more information about as it relates to that presentation? And then Chrissy will work
with her uh to pull that together. She noted for me that she uh captured the questions that she could not answer and she will get us answers, but she'll get those back to us through Chrissy. >> Okay. But if there's anything else after you just take another pass, I'll give you a round and a nudge to take a look
at this and let me know if there's anything else so that we can add to that uh for closing out that process. >> You want me to forward it now? >> Yes, you can do that. >> And that'll be the website with the agenda materials, >> right? And then for the public, we will
be posting um a set of materials from Josh's presentation this morning. VN's presentation is posted and John's is going to get posted. We'll make sure. >> Yeah, we'll figure out a way make sure we get that as well because we want to
make sure that folks can engage with that information should they have further questions they can get back to us. And outside of that, thank you all. Thank you team for being present and they did not need you. So, I'm glad I had you here just in case. >> Thank you. >> We can get started on the weekend. >> All right. Thank you so much.
>> You want to adjourn? Oh. Um, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So move. Second. >> All in favor, please say yes. >> Yes. >> All post, please say no. Thank you. Okay.