I I like being in person, though. It's it's more it's it's I think it's more of a better being in person than just being online. But Yeah. I agree. It's been been a tough week. There's mister Fry. Okay. Well, at least it's out of the way there. I mean, which car are you at about these days? Oh, I've got three subs in my shop. Are you working on that? 300? Yeah. I just don't know why it creates that, like, it like that creates that bar. It's the Zoom window. Zoom window. I don't it's never used to do that. It was higher up.
And I think I can make it work. It's a story with a gal with a habitat on Harris. Street. He must have a 100. A 100? About a thousand. Really? He might I mean, it goes on forever. And How he gets away with it is beyond me. I know. I don't know the man run. Do you ever go get parts from him? Put this as an active repair shop for what is it? Yeah. Yes. You see, if he has room to move in there. What's the story with all those cars? Mhmm. All the people just left them or I think he's it's sort of a sob graveyard, for various reasons.
Just the real impact. I'm losing him. I'm leaking all kinds of stuff into the graveyard. I got a new let's see what year it was. 1980, a new Hey, mister Pryor. Andrew, good evening. You know Albury Manor? I do know. How are you, sir? Good to see you. It's been a while. Yeah. It has been a while. Andrew. Very long to see you. Nice to meet you. Good to see you, Andrew. Well, the four of you makes a quorum. Good to go. Assuming you're still working at at region ten or you're not retired? Not yet. My goal is to be going by about this time next year, if not sooner. Okay.
You're not counting the days of yet. Not yet. Just a month. Going back and forth with my wife about whether I think I've been in March. You must have plenty of years in with DRS. Thirty three. Constitutes a reasonable amount. Yeah. Today is retired to your end guys. It's it's a good situation. Mhmm. I haven't quite hit 65 yet, so I could stick around longer than that. Alright. It's 06:31, so I'll call this meeting to order.
This is the, November meeting of the Charlottesville Police and Oversight Board. I'm Jeff Frazier. I'm the acting chair, and, we will introduce the new members in a moment. We have some we're pleased to say we now, once again, have a quorum, first time since May, so we can actually get some business done. So we have a backlog of, minutes and, agendas that we need to approve. We couldn't approve without a quorum, and I realized the new members wouldn't have and
shouldn't have necessarily gone back and read that. But, we can still ask you to vote, on the acceptance of those, as as a quorum. Let me see. So, I'd first like to, ask for approval of tonight's meeting agenda. We should have it in front of you. Is there a motion to approve? So moved. Okay. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? I'll just say aye. Aye. Thank you. Approval of past meeting agendas. This goes back, July, August, September, October.
And, nothing controversial there. I can assure you, could I get a motion to approve those just so we have it on the record? So moved. Second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. And then likewise with the minutes, when we had no quorum, we have one May, June, July, August, September, October. I can get a motion to approve those. Okay. Second. I'll second it. All in favor? Aye. Aye. K. Aye. Alright. Thank you for that. So I'm very pleased to welcome our two newest members.
To my left, mister Rory, Vaughn, joins us this month. Rory, you wanna just say a word or two about yourself? Well, I have been, living in the city for about two and half years now. I have, a background in public policy and was interested in the position, having previously worked with doctor do doctor Dobson and, being interested in, wanting to work more with the, community and in public service. So I when I saw that there was an opening here, I applied and was
encouraged to. But I will here I am. Thank you. Welcome. Pleased to have you. Thank you. And then to my far right, mister Albert Maffei. Albie, you wanna tell folks a little bit about you? I am retired from, twenty years of service as an adult probation officer and then twenty years as the mitigation specialist at the public defender's office. One of my greatest achievements is the formation of the helping formation of the therapeutic docket in our community. Very pleased with that. Did you just say two sentences about therapeutic docket for those folks who aren't familiar
with it? Yes. It's an alternative, involving treatment. It's, the your disposition is deferred until you follow the recruitment requirements. And you go to court every two weeks and report to the judge with your progress. You get you go through phases, and Hopefully, eventually graduate. Is it primarily for drug and alcohol offenders? No. Could be any offender. It's different from drug court. Okay. It's for Mental health issues. Yes. Okay. Welcome to our new members.
There is a, the application window for new we still have two vacancies on the board. The application window is open until the seventeenth of this month. So I understand that we have two applicants so far, pending. I think we're up to four now. Oh, after four. Okay. I believe a couple more have come in. Sometimes, I think the board members get those emails. Yeah. I did not get additional emails. So Okay. I don't know. Some it sounds like you came through. I get them. Yes. So and I have access to the portal where I can actually see see a
little bit. The the full application. K. So if my count is right, I think we're up to four applicants. Okay. Excellent. So based on that, and and I just suspect at this point, city council will wait till the closure of the window on the seventeenth, see if any others come in, and then they will set up times to review and interview the applicants that they select. Right. So, just as a reminder to the board and the public, city council is the one that ultimately selects those who seat are seated on the board. And I did wanna mention just that that prior item.
I am working on getting both, business cards and then plates for the table as well as name tags. This was a conversation that we had had about the need to just see everyone's name, both in this context of hey, doctor Towson. But also in, just anytime we do anything public with with the public, just people having name tags, that's a benefit. And then if you have a card that has your email, your your board email, that also helps to just be able to facilitate discussion whenever and wherever you are
out in the community. Excellent. So working on that. So remind us. So council, doesn't necessarily interview all the applicants. They or they do interview them and then make a choice. What's the process? They would review the applications first. Okay. And then they would seek the input of the office on those applications that are submitted just basically giving, thoughts or opinions on the application. Okay. Then they would select candidates to interview. Okay. But not necessarily everybody gets interviewed.
Correct. It it's and that's entirely up to them who gets interviewed and who doesn't, depending on what, you know, what type of seat they're trying to fill and things like that. So And if the window closes on the seventeenth, then that process happens shortly thereafter, or is it indeterminate? I would suspect it would happen closer in to December. Okay. Because they would have to they probably would discuss that in closed session at their next meeting. So probably their their second November meeting, which means they might do interviews in the first meeting of December. Okay. It depends.
Because, again, we're not the only board. I mean, there's a bunch of them. A bunch of boards. So they're they're doing a similar thing. It's not always the same for other boards where they have to interview, but they still have to discuss appointments. So it takes a little bit of time, but I'm it's possible before our December meeting, we have those two new members appointment. That's possible. Okay. If not, then I definitely would suspect by the January meeting, we would. And it's less urgent now that we have a quorum, but it still would be nice to get a full board again. So Yep. Alright. Thank you. The next item of business is the nomination of, an election of officers.
We need to elect a chair and a vice chair. I would like to open the floor to nominations. I'm gonna start with vice chair if we could. I I would like to, nominate, doctor Dobson for the position of vice chair. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Congratulations. Well and now we're gonna open the floor for nominations for chair. I was going to nominate Jeff Frazier for chair. Is there a second?
Second. All in favor? Aye. K. Great. Thank you. Thank you all. That's simple. Thank you, doctor. Belton for serving. Yeah. You already are. I was used for being, tardy. No problem. Sorry. Can I ask who seconded that one? Oh, I oh, I I think it was Rory. Rory. We both spoke. I can as long as I document. K. Yes. I'm gonna, hand it off now to mister Walker who's gonna talk a little bit about, this document we have in front of us, the, overview, pamphlet, and I think will the slides be up as well?
I'm I'm hoping that they won't be super cut off. So we'll we'll see because every I don't know. Recently, it, like, hides part of the screen because of the overlay. I don't know why it does that. I don't want that box to go away. Okay. At least it's small enough. I'm like, I can't get rid of those face the faces on the side, so we'll just have to deal with that for now. George, can you see the screen okay? Yep. Okay. So what I what I prepared and what is what's on the screen is printed out in front of you. So if you don't wanna turn around, you don't have to.
It's up to you. But what I decided to do was just create a short little picture of just an overview of the board and the status of the board. Through independent conversations with our new members and just my weekly conversations with doctor Frasier and doctor Dobson, it is it is well known that the board is in a state of transition, and it's been in states of transition over its history several times. One major positive tonight is that the board has a quorum, which means the board
can make official votes and recommendations on things. That's an important piece of this whole equation because it allows the board to make public and direct statements about opinions on anything related to the police department or its own policy and its own governing document. As if you remember back in September, we actually held the board members who were here held a joint meeting with city council. Held it right in this room. All the city council was here. All the current members of the board at that time were here. And what was discussed was the initiation of some amendments to the ordinance.
That first round that we discussed during that meeting was mainly cleanup. It was cleanup of the ordinance from reordering some stuff around. It was clean up from the perspective of cutting some things that were just irrelevant or redundant. And then one of the biggest things was clearly establishing the office of the police civilian oversight board and some of its roles as it relates to the board. That's something that's always been up in the air, just not really a clear delineation of the board's relationship to the office and the office's relationship to the board.
Just from my own perspective as as the only office member right now, I view the office's role as supporting whatever direction the board wishes to go in within its authorized authority. So if the board wants to focus on, reviewing complaints from internal affairs, then it's the goal of the office to be able to serve that up to the board so that you can conduct that work easily and efficiently. If the board wants to go in a direction of looking at data from a system, like the license plate readers, then that would be the the role of the
office to provide that data, provide some commentary and analysis, and let the board then discuss, look at the policies, things like that. So the board has a lot of flexibility, once it has a quorum and can decide on which direction to go. The office is meant to support that. So just a quick little highlight reel that I've made here that will cooperate with me. Role of the board, I put that in there just from a a broad perspective. This is often from all the community, meetings I've had, the community events I've been
to, from discussions with board members, from discussions with other city leaders. Oh, thank you, Remy. Appreciate that. The goal the the core goal of the board is to enhance public safety and protect civil rights by providing independent and objective oversight of the Charlottesville Police Department. Some big words three big words here. Accountability, transparency, and community trust. So those can mean a whole bunch of things, and they mean different things to different people. One of the board's goals is to define what does that mean in the work that the board does? What does it mean for the board to conduct accountability?
Or what does it mean to produce transparent outcomes, and records and reports? What does it mean to build trust with the community? And so the one of the other core aspects of the board is to serve as that bridge between the community and the police department, not in a way that it's trying to say, hey. Let's resolve all conflicts, but rather to be a voice, to be a group that listens to the community, and is then able to change that listening, that understanding into meaningful recommendations, into policy recommendations, and into work that helps the community see a little
bit behind the curtain of the police department. That that's, the goal and the intent of the board as it was created. This slide is really gets into some of the details. And I I do I am happy to answer questions. So if you wanna pause, discuss, or ask questions, I would love that. We can also wait till the end and do it at the end, but it's it's up to you. If you think of something, jump in. So duties of the board as stated in the ordinance. This is something that has been shown publicly before at our town hall. I think it was April April. Trying to explain to the public what the board is authorized to do in the
ordinance. It is authorized to conduct investigations. So that would be a, a citizen comes to the to the board with a complaint and saying, officer a, did this thing, and I'm complaining. I wanna I want that investigated. Technically, the board is authorized to do that. It can recommend discipline as part of that process. So if if something's investigated and it's found to be true and sustained, and and that that would be the term we use, sustained, then discipline could be recommended. That recommendation would go to the chief of police.
The chief of police is the one that ultimately determines discipline for an officer. The board can conduct audits. So an audit might be detailed into a system, a practice, trends and data of the police department, could be a audit related to, budget and spending of the department. All those things are contained within the the powers of the board. Conduct public hearings. Public hearings has been a big topic, of the community of wanting to have a public venue to hear multiple sides of maybe a complaint or a incident that occurred.
That's what be the purpose of hearing. Could be about a policy too. Recommend policy changes. This has been the primary focus of the board up to date. Policy changes and policy recommendations have been the primary work of the board. Review police budgets and policies. I I think it's kind of redundant, but, produce public reports. One of the goals of the office is to produce as much reporting as we can, so as to be transparent about the work of the office, the work of the board, and aspects into the police department that we can share publicly. And then also, host town halls, public listening sessions.
That's something we have done in the past. We have gone to as a board, as an office, gone to many public events. Usually, there's many in the summer. A lot of back to school events, a lot of different, of all all sizes. We've even, mister Dillard had invited us to the NAACP at one point, in which the former director, myself, and doctor Frasier went and spoke there, answered questions. So there's a lot of opportunities for public engagement. And part of the conversation tonight is, what is the message, the narrative of this
board that we wanna start carrying forward into the future? What is the work that this board wants to focus on, and what is the messaging around that focus that we wanna carry forward to the public. On the other side there, you have some practical limitations. So the organ says the board can do these things. There are practical limitations. One of the main ones is that this is a volunteer board. Some board members have full time jobs. Some board members can't commit every waking moment to the work that the board wants to do. And so that has always been a challenge. Part of the recent set of recommendations to the ordinance was reducing a little bit
of the burden on the board members. One example is the board is required to do a heavy amount of training within a certain time frame after being seated on the board. Part of the amendments was to reduce that and to and to extend the timeline. So that was one of the things that, was was important to a lot of the board members in the last round back at the early part of the 2025. Just about the the time commitment needed to do the required training was extensive. And so just recognizing, okay. Let's pair that back a little bit.
That might increase interest in serving on the board if we can make that a little bit more reasonable for volunteers. And there's many other things like that. I mean, if the board were to review a case, that takes time. And it takes the ability of the board to come together, establish a a set meeting time, and work during that meeting to review that case. So another big thing that is relevant to the investigations is the board cannot compel officer testimony. This has been a a continual sticking point about investigations because it is hard to
say that the board can do an independent and full investigation if it can't ask questions of the defendant in this case of the allegations, which is the officer because the complaints are being made against the officer. It's also very clear in the policies of the police department, state law, that an officer has that right. So the board it's hard to say that the board has a legitimate ability to recommend discipline if it can't interview that officer. And so this is an area where there are real limitations that have to be discussed, and city council has expressed the continued desire to meet with the board to
discuss how these challenges might be resolved and to work through, amendment changes to the ordinance that could could reach a a good conclusion. So I'll go into a little bit of that later, but that is a big one, so I did wanna hit it. Another limitation is the the actual day to day work is performed by the office. As of right now, it's me. You're looking at the office. And so, technically, the office is, budgeted for two individuals. As of right now, it's just one, and we'll see where that goes. The investigation time line, this is important too because the police department and an officer
have a very specific time line if they're going to be investigated and if discipline is going to be used if that investigation is sustained. So if the board is gonna engage itself in that timeline to be to recommend discipline, it has to follow the set timeline of the police department. That's hard for a board that meets only once a month. So that's a key thing. Oh, just the yep. I'll pause. Sorry. Yeah. So you you're mentioning we we meet once a month. That's you know, I know a lot of people have given a lot of criticism to that, line, and that's, like, that's the minimum that we all meet as a
board a month. Right? But I think it's it's important to note that we're also capable of having smaller meetings or or forming additional meetings as well, just so that people don't assume that we're that's the maximum amount that we're allowed to to meet them up. I don't know if you have that. I don't know on that, but just wanted to clarify that for anyone who might be thinking Yeah. Otherwise. There's been a discussion in the past from the board about forming committees. A committee would be, three members because once a committee is formed, that that committee
is conducting official business. And so, that would be kind of like a publicly noticed Anytime that committee meets, public notice, and that committee would have a specific purpose that it brings up to the board. That is a 100% possible. Miss Walker, if I could add to doctor Dobson's comment, it's also important, I think, that people know that the chair, the vice chair, and the, director, acting director meet weekly Yep. And are in it's not daily communication, several times a week communication about board matters.
A lot of it's in the weeds. The stuff we may end up bringing to the full board doesn't necessarily involve need to involve the full board to to meet weekly, but we are I mean, it's not as though we're just showing up once a month and going through an agenda. We we're we're we're we're meeting regularly. Correct. And that's a good clarification. Yeah. The the three of us have been meeting weekly, just to kinda keep the flow going, to keep the work on the back end going, and to help set the stage for the board as a whole, especially once we've reachieved quorum.
Yeah. Yeah. And there's there's no like you were saying, there's no limit on how much the board can meet and do do work. It's just within the context of if it's three members, then we have to make sure it's given public notice. The community is aware of it, and can access that work if if they want. And in addition, just speaking as acting chair and now chair, I mean, I don't wanna unnecessarily impose on the schedules and times of the full board knowing that people are volunteering here and that it's commitment.
And, you know, unnecessary meetings, I think, are are off the table. Yeah. For that very reason. And that's why it's up there as a a limitation because it's it's hard to get everybody together. It's everyone has And I don't wanna ask if it's not, you know, if it's not something that really needs the full board's attention. So just wanna have that on the record. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No. No. You're no. That's what this is what I prefer because you know me. Otherwise, I'll just keep talking because that's how I am. We'll keep interrupting. No. No discipline without internal affairs. I list that because the way that the policies of the police departments, there is
a collective bargaining agreement. There's a couple other things that tie into this. If an officer is going to receive discipline for a sustained allegation, then that process has to go through internal affairs. So even if the board did an independent investigation, which it could do, if that officer is meant to be disciplined upon the sustained finding, that process would still have to go through internal affairs. And so if you think about it, that that would be basically dual investigations, but the board's investigation wouldn't contain all of the elements of the internal affairs investigation, and
that is ultimately what's needed for the chief to give out discipline. So that's an important consideration to think about as we think about recommendations or thoughts about how the ordinance might need to change to better match what the board is trying to accomplish. And and that's that's a rightful reason so. I mean, if an officer is going to receive discipline, then there are a lot of legal ramifications related to that. There are grievance procedures that the officer can can follow after receiving discipline as well. So there there's a big complex nature to the investigation component and the discipline component.
One of the other limitations is manuals and documentation. The current ordinance lays out a variety of other documents that have to be created. Some of those exist, some of those do not. But the question is how many of those need to exist or don't need to exist? That's something that the board can discuss and try to figure out. And then there are limitations, practical and reasonable ones about criminal cases. The board, doesn't touch criminal investigations, or civil where the courts are involved or juvenile cases. So we could get a complaint that comes related to, a juvenile, but that's a
little bit separate from, like, an actual juvenile related court case. And if we if we would discuss that if if a complaint came in that related to that, and we could get advice from the city attorney's office to know what we can and can't follow. So that's kind of my overview of the duties of the board. My next slide's on the duties of the office. If any other questions on this one okay. And and, again, we can do as much discussion at the end. Duties of the office. So as stated in the ordinance, the office is intended to intake and monitor complaints.
I will share that there was two two complaints that came into our office specifically in October. Both of those complaints were referred to the internal affairs department who are investigating both complaints. I'm able to monitor those. I'm able to attend the interview of the officer and observe that interview, and just keep track of what the status of that complaint is. I can communicate with the complainant and make sure they're, you know, they're being able to facilitate and communicate back and forth with internal affairs just to ensure they're being
walked through the process so they understand what's happening. Part of the CPD use of force review. So one of the other big items is that anytime there is a use of force yep. Sorry. Is the process the complaint comes through and it goes to internal affairs, the office, and the the board? Or is it that it goes through and then, it goes to, internal affairs, and then they decide where it goes after that. So if a complaint comes into the office Mhmm.
I would I would actually track it in our system, and that's a system that we have that you've asked me to to talk about. It might be for the next meeting or or another night because of what we have on tonight. Yes. But I do track that one. I consider that one of our complaints. Mhmm. But I it does get shared directly with internal affairs. If a complaint comes into internal affairs, they initiate it, but they also direct they send me the complaint. So they make me aware that a complaint has been made through them. I don't track it the same way in our system, but I track that they have a complaint.
I I attend those interviews at times. But it is not automatic though. It's not like they get a if it goes to the internal affairs email or whatever their system is, it's not like it bounces straight to the It's not automatic. Okay. And and part of that is because it comes in through different formats. So a complainant can walk in to the front of the police department and issue a complaint. They can write it on paper. They can send it through an email. They can do a phone call. There there is an online form that internal affairs has, and that goes to Lieutenant Fieth. He's the commander of internal affairs. But anytime he gets one of those, he he share he emails that open to
me. So I keep a log and a track of all those that come in. And I think it's worth saying that and and maybe you're gonna get to this this morning, but the office is really the the the hub, and we're the spokes, the board's spokes. And that said, you would also keep us surprised of that process, us being the chair and the vice chair, and then the larger board is needed, as you monitor those cases. Because, you know, what we can do is is, take a look at one if if if we deem that appropriate.
We'll talk about that more in the future. But but it I didn't want want folks to think that we weren't involved in that process. Well, I think that's what the board, with Quorum can determine how it wants to receive that information Yes. When it wants to receive that information, in what format. Right now, it's kind of been about a monthly report, kind of a monthly check-in of, hey. We've gotten these complaints. Here's the status of them. But if the board wants to receive that in a different way as they come in, letting the board know, or if the board would prefer the office just highlight
certain ones that may be of more relevance than others, that is gonna be for the board to determine. And we will we will do that. Yeah. And that's Not tonight. But but I would I would also just note that where we do that and decided to look at a case as the full board, we would need to go into closed session because of confidentiality issues. And there are provisions for us to do that under FOIA and the other privacy guidelines. So just so folks know, those not are not gonna be public, public, sharing of information. They would be, they would be shared in closed session with all the limits of
confidentiality that the board is bound by. Mhmm. Correct. And that's and that's a aspect of this is let's say the board wanted to review a case from internal affairs. The board could enter closed session, review those materials which the office would prepare and provide in a in a meaningful way, whether that's, body cam footage or the officer's interview with internal affairs, other case files related to that investigation, that internal affairs investigation. The board would review all that in closed session. They could the board could then come out of closed session and make generalized recommendations
that don't give officer or witness names, that don't give the specific details, but provide recommendations related to policy or discipline if it's done in in within the window of time, then the board could do that. Yeah. So it's it's more about us and and part of the conversation tonight is the board thinking about the best process it wants to go with for how it engages with that information. Yeah. And and let me just just add, to the to the full board that, having
spent some time early in my tenure on PCOV looking at hours of body cam footage, I've asked mister Walker to create a model whereby he would sort of give us a summation, give us just the relevant section of the body cam footage that bears on the complaint, a a summary of the record, and so that we aren't all spending hours and hours and hours doing that. And then you would give us a summary. And if we needed more information, we could certainly ask for it. But I don't want I don't wanna leave the impression with the board that we're
the ones gonna be looking at hours and hours of of body cam footage because it's just endlessly doing it except for the critical part. And and to be fair to internal affairs, you know, if if the board is reviewing an investigation conducted by internal affairs, they already do a first round of that process because internal affairs is is basically creating a case file in their system and saying, here's the relevant video footage that's relevant to this case. And that way, I can I could pull from those items to be able to
find the exact pieces that that would need to be reviewed by the board? Yeah. Well said. Thank you. So, yeah, that that is an effective process. If you think about it from the perspective of it's you could probably review 10 cases in the time it would take to investigate one, simply because of the nature that the investigation's already been done for you. So And and just keeping in mind, in no way does this suggest we're gonna be reviewing every single case that comes through. That would just be absolutely impossible in terms of this year or no. Would you would you not agree? It's it's possible depending on the extent of your review, but what what makes more
sense would be specific types of cases that touch specific policies. Because let's say a policy related to vehicle pursuits and how how vehicle pursuits are done, that might be more relevant than a policy related to, just a general maybe a general unprofessionalism or something. That could be something we look at too, but you're gonna have to pick and choose because if you wanna review every case, there's probably about five or so a month. Yeah. That we'd wanna prioritize.
Because things like, you know, discourteous behavior, I mean, those might not be a good use of our time because there are general orders within the department for handling that. And unless it really rose to an extreme level, just a a a run of the mill complaint about that may or may not be something we would wanna get involved with, whereas lots of other stuff in mind. Or or something like like courtesy is an that's an example of something that could be collectively done. So, like Yeah. Let's take, you know, the last quarter, the last three months of courtesy related cases.
Let's look at review them altogether at one time. And make a policy right here. Topic related to courtesy and look at all of them. So that could be a way to do it rather than, like, a case by case basis. Yeah. Could do that for certain types of cases, but you could also look at a collection of the same topic of cases. It was my impression when we looked at some statistics that those were a high number a high number of the complaints fall under that heading. Is that is that your recollection? There there are a good number of them. I would, I would need to pull the data Okay. To specifically pull me to that one. The annual yeah.
And and and we're talking about data that I remember from 2024 versus the current year data is different. Yeah. But that's that's something that if the board wanted me to bring that information to you and us to go over that and then make a determination of what to do, we can do that. Not to not to jump ahead to a lot of different things that we might be talking about, but while it's just we're on this subject, I I've just been writing some notes of things that I, think we should eventually talk about. And one of them, I think, is just really clarifying terms and words. So that's one of the frustrating things for me whenever I'm looking over any policy
or just about anything is the lack of clarity in terms, when it comes to definition, but also in terms of operationalization. When I say that, just to define that term, what I mean is how are we measuring it, how are we observing it, how are we seeing it. So if we have a description of what we mean by courtesy that, that is public and transparent and clear for the public to see, and to criticize, and they also have we also have our operationalization of that. How are we measuring that? How are we looking at that?
Then that also gives a lot of critique from the public to be able to come in and say, I actually think the way you're seeing courtesy is very culturally sort of narrow, and that you should actually broaden it towards a lot of other ways that people see currency. Right? Which would be a fantastic critique and one that may be encapsulated by the board, but it also might be better encapsulated through people who are not on the board as well. And so I just think that if we can channel a way to not only have almost this glossary of terms that we have publicly available, that people can almost just hover over and see or click and see, oh, this is what they mean
by courtesy. This is how they implement courtesy. This is how they keep people accountable for courtesy. Or here's even some examples of how they've kept people accountable in the past that that might feel feel very inviting to the public who wants to feel like they can engage in both criticism but also appreciation for the process. Great point. Yeah. Thank you. Excellent. And that that's where it would be relevant to review the police department's policy on what how do they define it? They define it. Yeah. And and being able to compare and contrast how the board or the community would define it. So to to keep moving on this just to to wrap this up.
One second. Yes. Okay. I would be curious to see some data about the relative frequencies of various types of violation. Yeah. That I think that I do have that from 2024. I don't have that from 2025. But I couldn't compare it. Yep. I mean, I was amazed at this data sharing session that some of us went to that, the amount of data they collect over there. I mean, we can there's lots of we can get a lot of of data out of there. Now whether it helps with what doctor Dodson was saying, we can certainly get that
in. Yeah. It would just be help for me to have context. No. I agree. Mhmm. Mhmm. Agreed. So I'm gonna set that item aside as something the board potentially wants to Yeah. Vote that they you guys want to look into because that will help facilitate my my ability to produce that for you. Okay. Sounds good. We can set that aside, and I I have it noted. Yeah. We've got it. Okay. Yeah. So with with use of force, and this is where I was gonna mention another really relevant thing is the office is involved in the way that use of force is reviewed. So use of force could contain anything like the the deployment or just the the
pulling of a weapon. So if the officer has to draw their weapon, draw their taser, utilize Draw their baton. The I don't know if I mean, I guess they do have batons, but that's very rare that they pull them out. The spray is more common, the, the OC spray. Or this also involves things like the canine or a vehicle pursuit. Those types of things may or may not be part of an internal affairs investigation because they could be entirely within policy, and there's no complaint related to them. But they still go through a review process that could become an investigation.
But this office sits as part of that review process and gives an opinion. So there's times when, the office sees or or engages with an incident that could be relevant to the board to review, as part of that example. And that's within the board's authorized duty, powers to do that, to review use of force. So just for clarity, use of force is always reviewed even when there is nothing like that. Correct. Correct. Yep. It goes up through a chain of command in in the department. It goes up, through usually, I think it's a sergeant and then the lieutenant, a
captain, and then assist the chief. Yeah. The panel, which includes internal affairs, myself, and usually a specialist in the area. So, like, it might be a specialist in the firearms, if it's a firearm situation, and that goes to the chief at the very top. But the chief is able to then look at all the different opinions on that and whether it was within policy or not Mhmm. And make a determination. Mhmm. So there there is some insight for the board into that through the office where the board could review something like that as well. And those really might determine policy because that whole process is looking at whether that
was within compliance or not. Alright. Alright. Yeah. Are you able to kind of create a system or suggest a system where if you are getting pulled into all of those cases that you could also pull one of the members of the PCOB into it to be a part of kind of, like, your judgment of this? Or is that something that there's been hard lines to say no? That's that's a conversation we could have with the chief. Right now, though, the way that the general order is written, it involves the the office members as the the one that accesses that. Yep. In an in a situation like that, the board would need to vote to say
that we want to review this. That doesn't prevent the office from saying, hey. Here's one to review. Mhmm. And so that's that's why it we would have to work that out. Those are details that would need to be worked out on how that would work. But but but I I love that line of thinking where where we're looking at, you know, sort of how to expand our portfolio and and have more input. I mean, I'm I'm remembering those of you that weren't on the board a year or so ago. I believe in the news, miss Walter, but there was concerns about the, use of dash cam footage and in traffic and moving violations.
And the old policy was that the camera didn't come on until after they hit their lights. So the infraction has occurred. The the officer hits his lights and siren, and then the dash cam comes on. So the actual the actual, violation was never recorded, and then that set up disputes between the complaint, the person who got the ticket, and the officer. So we had input on that, and they adjusted the policy. So now that they that as as soon as they detect the attraction, I think the camera goes on now. Is that not the case? There there's a there's a delay in the sense that But is it thirty seconds?
It's like thirty seconds back. So it it it actually But it's true when over the the system. So, like, that's something that could be looked at if things are being missed. But, yeah, there's it's more of a kind of thing where we can get involved and have a say in that and at least have input to the department and say, we think you need to take a look at this policy. And so far, I think they've been receptive. I think the third yeah. The third the thirty seconds, I believe, was was implemented for that correction. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. So the those are there's a lot of different examples. So, all in all, the the purpose of this office is to support the board
and its authorized purpose. So the board determines what its work and goal and purposes are within the framework of the ordinance, and the office is meant to support that. Obviously, there's a lot of administrative stuff that the office has to do day to day. Managing the budget is one thing, and providing reports to the to the board as as the board requests. Requests, that that would be an example of, like, hey. Provide us provide a report on what do all the complaints look like? What are the different types of allegations being made? What is most common?
Things like that. Just some of the limitations. Obviously, limited staff and resources with with one person right now. Sometimes there is an unclear role as it relates between the office and the board. That's something that we've been working to amend in the ordinance to to make that clarification, more explicit. And then this is what we've been talking about, lack of direct priorities from the board. So if the board sets priorities of what it wants to accomplish, that makes the office's job easier, so that the office can follow suit Yeah. And be able to meet that that board meeting.
There's a lot of words on here, but it's just talking about the time of transition with momentum. So, the board has undergone periods of progress and setback. As as many know, gain and loss of members of, office leadership, varying levels of engagements. And a lot of that goes back to a lack of clear expectations of the board and an ordinance that matches those expectations. I think there has been a very clear recognition of that. And why I say momentum is there is, a lot of effort and engagement in
starting to address that process, starting to address the ordinance, and make it realistic and make the expectations clear. So there's been a lot of progress over the past months, starting with that joint meeting with city council, and they have expressed publicly an interest to have another joint meeting, with the board, especially once it reached quorum and could could give its opinions and recommendations as a board. Mhmm. But also just to enhance that transparency to the community and continue to to receive community feedback in whatever ways that we can.
We've been discussing some of that behind the scenes of of additional ways to get community input and feedback and ways to listen to the community. So the the board must establish priorities with the input gained from the community to set a path and meet those expectations and recommendations to the ordinance. So that the board's conversations, discussion, and opinions are gonna be what directs the ship. When do you want when do you think it's appropriate for us to start talking about some of those those elements? I think tonight, the next once I'm finished and I actually I I will say
I apologize. I meant to mention this earlier. The monthly report from the PCOB office, I just decided to not include anyways. Yeah. What I'd much rather prefer is the the board say what what direction they wanna go to. I have seven. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to get to that that last one. So I did keep this as short as possible. Current strengths. The PCOB, has an unprecedented unprecedented amount of access to police records and data through the office. So, the chief has been very supportive in that way.
He has stated many times that, you know, when he talks to other chiefs in the region, they they can't believe how much access this office and the board are given to police data. So that transparency is a core strength of the board. Yes. And that allows the board to provide that oversight and accountability. And it's just a matter of the board engaging in that work. So for example, we have access to things like the body cam footage, other police records like the the the general reports of the police, call system of of how
police receive and respond to calls. We also have access to the flop camera system, which has been discontinued at this time until that's determined what's happening with that. But it is discontinued right now, but we have had access. And, other other systems and data like that, we can request case files from internal affairs and get that case file. So those are some examples. There is an expansive authority as we've just been describing. The board has a lot of leeway in the ordinance. Yes. There are limitations. Yes, there are barriers that exist.
But generally, the board is able to look at many aspects of the police department. And then there is a clear commitment from city council to continue working towards a model of oversight. So the the conversation with city council is related to, the models of oversight, and they want to understand the board's perspective. That that's what they've been sharing about the next joint, joint meeting to get the board's perspective on what does the board see as its role in oversight. Mhmm. NACOL is the national organization for civilian oversight of law enforcement.
They lay out three models. There's an investigation model, audit monitor model, review model. The way that the ordinance is written right now, it allows the board to do all of those. But it allows the board to do all of those without a lot of clarity and definition. So the goal for the board is to really think about and I can I can provide more detail on these, but to provide more details on which direction is the board really seeking to go and provide that recommendation to city council because that will help them set that tone as well? Yeah. Mhmm. No.
I I think I think one of the priorities I I want us to, undertake is deciding which model we want and then communicating that through you to counsel and through the city manager so that they know our preference. I mean, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. They have the final authority. But I I would want us to have pretty clear input on that and not just leave it to their discretion. And I think so not that I think. The the board, once you have an official vote on things, those types of recommendations or decisions, that can go directly to city council.
Yeah. Your audience is city council. It can also be the city manager, myself, the chief of police. The board is authorized to to once it makes a a recommendation and a vote, can send that off to whoever it chooses. I I think it would add add some gravitas to the recommendation if we had the chiefs buy in and the city managers buy in once we come up with a a clear recommendation for the model we'd like to. The problem with the reason we have not had a single hearing in my four and a half years on the board or even since the inception of the board
is because of all the barriers that exist, legal, procedural, bureaucratic. And I think the the public is understandably, you know, wonders what we're doing since we've held no hearings. So it has to be a model that really shows that we're fulfilling our job to oversee, provide oversight function on the complaints. So it's just for the board to think about that as we move forward. Yep. And I think I have, like, one last slide. Okay. Please.
No. Two yeah. One last slide, and that's the question slide. But that really gets into the discussion. So, priorities, so which we were just talking about, one of the priorities that the board does need to have is about reviewing and providing commentary on the ordinance, with a focus on clarifying the role of the board of the office Yes. And the outcomes produced in service to the community. So what is the gore what does the board seek to produce as its outcomes? Recommendations, input on things. The board is gonna help determine what where direction that goes in as it comes
to defining what that says in the ordinance. So setting a clear work plan for the board with priorities and tasks. So how do we go about accomplishing those things? What work does the board need to do? What tasks does the board need to do? And that helps define what the office would need to do. And finally, how do we engage the community at a deeper level both to listen to the needs and desires of the community, but also help to clarify the powers and duties of the board as they stand today? So those are those are what I had kind of perceived as the as the priorities of the board at this moment.
And then my last slide was just questions. You know? If anything, the goal was to transition then into the last item on the agenda before we get to public comment, which is the board discussing any of these topics or the topics listed there on the agenda, and where the board really wants to go from here. Yep. Questions for mister Walker? Fellow board? I'm curious about the crisis intervention team training that CIT. Since I've been retired, I don't know if that's still going on. Tom Van Hemmer used to do that. Yep.
He's still I think he's still doing. He's still doing it? Yeah. Yeah. Is he? Okay. Sorry. I'm gonna see him. No. No. I'm listening. Agents and his to to to a certain extent took Tom's role, but Tom is continuing his connection as well. Okay. Is that person in your shop doing the training in group? She participates in the training as do a number of other people from emergency depending on the situation. Cool. Is that were you saying that from the perspective of that? Is that something that you'd be interested in? I was looking at? The board as a whole. I was just curious if it's still going on and and what capacity, because I
because I'm out of the loop mostly being retired. I honestly don't know. Okay. My my understanding is that they they have retained crisis intervention training, regularly. I don't remember what exactly their retaining of that supposed to be, but, I have talked to Tom recently, and continue to enjoy, his his his, perspectives. But, I think he's situated within UVA now, so I think he's, he might be
more focused towards their emergency and crisis. But, my understanding is that the, Charlottesville Police Department is still receiving crisis intervention training and probably doing, kind of refresher courses of some sort. I don't know. I don't know to what extent refresher training. Happening. I do believe that the expectation is sooner or later, all of the officers will get through it. More of them go through sooner rather than later. Right. There are specific questions people could call Kelly Royston, who's our CIT person now at
Regions. Good to know. I feel like we should not to nominate task for us already, but I I do feel like that feels like an incredibly important thing for CPD to all be trained on. Yes. I think that's the expectation, isn't it, Andrew, that they're all It's generally the expectation. Trained. I mean, I'm I've heard younger officers talk about getting ready or getting I think of it to go. And, Honestly, I think they should be everyone should be trained on it and should be refreshed on it and practicing it constantly. Even whenever they don't see someone who's in crisis, I think it's an incredibly important
thing to do with just about anyone. You know, just Yeah. Since the chief has been here, he implemented the anchor teams. Is that what they're calling me, William? Yes. Yeah. Which consists of two teams of an officer, a a a a specially trained officer, an EMT, and a mental health worker that respond to folks that are known to be having a health crisis. And it doesn't replace CIT, but it it supplements it. And I'm gonna actually meet with, sergeant Schifler on Monday just to get briefed on that. But they, do you know more about that, Andrew?
You know, we think we we can't do too? It gets a little blurry in my mind, the distinction between what Anchor is doing and what Hart, which is the parallel team in Albemarle County is doing. Yes. But they are they are definitely bringing people in crisis, to the Bay Region ten office on Old Lindford Road. Right. That is good. It's a less stressful way of approaching some of the crises that produces better results in the sense of when appropriate more people get to go home rather than getting hold up for the hospital. And it helps people avoid the whole you're already in a crisis and the police
drag you to the hospital when it's reasonable to do so. There are certainly situations where we can't do that. If there's a we can't do a medical clearance if we don't know whether somebody's acting this way because they have, for instance, an uncontrolled urinary tract infection Mhmm. Which can produce psychiatric symptoms. We can't assess that at the at our main office. But but I I think one of the beauties of it is that they're not taking everybody to the ER. We're taking them down to Region 10. And I mean, I'll know more on Monday with just the brief interaction I've had
with sergeant Shepherd was, you know, we're we're busy. And we're also moving closer to a point where we're gonna have some twenty three hour Wow. Capability. Bring people in, and we're able to hold them for or have them stay for up to twenty three hours. Three days. We're getting a machine that will allow us to have a limited supply of medications available if that would be a useful tool for a particular situation. They're they're actively remodeling the space at this point in time. It it might be something that the board would ask someone to do a brief presentation to us.
What I mean is this, and we can ask questions. And because I do think it's it's the part I mean, it's part of the interface of the CPD and the community, a very vulnerable part of the community, but one in which we might wanna have some oversight. Just, you know, do do check-in. You know, I would like to flag, though, just thinking about auto authorities and stuff. These are joint teams of visits, EMT, and social services as well, and we will we will not have oversight of it then. So that might Well, it's it's under the police department.
It's it's up So the total the the entire the entire The anchor thing is a police department initiative. It's not that many. There's two teams. There's six people altogether. Was that the same thing? I don't love the county model. Do you know Edgar? Is it similar? It's similar. We have there's an officer, of one of the fire marshals, and then there's mental health people on the the team as well. That's the one. The county team might also include some work with partnership for mental health, and I'm not sure to what extent the city has incorporated that.
Yeah. So, anyway, just just it's just another initiative that I think is long overdue in Charlottesville. I'm I'm pleased about, but, again, we might wanna take a look at it. Yeah. And that so I I wrote that down as possible presentation Yes. Regarding anchor Yep. And and figuring out who the best person is to present that. Sergeant Johnson, Eric Johnson is the he oversees both teams. Okay. He's one of the community officers. Thomas? Sorry. Eric Thomas? Yeah. Thomas. What about I say, John? I'm terrible with names. Eric Thomas. Yes. And he's under, lieutenant Wade.
Yeah. I can I can reach out to him and and ask him? I talked to him about it. When we were at the At Carver. Yeah. Oh, okay. The Anchors actually house the department of, human services. It's not even though there's police officers on. Oh, is that true? Okay. That's that's what I was thinking. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Stay corrected in that. Didn't that. But that's where, a presentation was something that could be of value. Correct those mis misperceptions. I did get confirmation from lieutenant by he's text me really quick about so all
officers are required to do one week full of the CIT training. They have them several times a year, but all officers are required to refreshers, or is that just this one shot deal? That I'm not sure of. I I don't know if it's a a rolling on an annual basis or not. Mhmm. They do go through that one week training. K. I think there's a certification, isn't there, that Mhmm. Complete. So are we in just kind of the open conversation part of Yeah. Item seven. Yep. Yeah. James, are you done? Can we go to item seven? Yeah. I'm done. All I that last page, all it was was just me just starting to kinda
create some little template of ideas that could go into a work plan, and just think about how we might fill this in or scrap what's in there and fill it in. Filling it. There you go. As we speak. Go ahead, Kyle. Yeah. I mean, I was just I was just starting to to make some ideas, but we've already talked about some of these things. I was also just filling them in. I think, I I I can see so many different ways that we can move forward. So I I'm almost overwhelmed in a certain in a certain way.
However, we've talked about a couple of things that I think are incredibly important, which are getting understanding of the community's experiences. That's just a broad broad goal. But I think that the way that, most people here know me as is I'm gonna take a data driven evidence based approach to doing that. What does that mean from my perspective? Well, it means talking to people. So it doesn't mean, necessarily just sending digital things to people and having them survey
or get surveyed that way. Sometimes it could mean walking up to people's doors or it could mean going into public places where a lot of people, are that where they, you know, convene and and really doing a lot of work honestly and and reaching out to people and talking to them with a if with a one item open question, you know, about, what their experience has been with with the Charlottesville Police Department, you know. And then really listening, taking notes, and and, you know, really trying to standardize that
process as best as we can and and make sure we can kinda map out where have we been. Have we gotten to everywhere equally? You know, what are the concerns of each of these areas? And then, hopefully, from that information, being able to follow-up with appropriate oversight of police in those areas. Right? And so if we're taking that sorry to just yammer on, but if we're taking that inductive approach to doing this, then what we do from there is we now understand here's a particular region Whatever it is, we can hone hone hone in on
that specific challenge or problem perhaps by looking at what are the specifics there? Is it that there have been a few cases that have been problematic? Is it that, people just feel unsafe and they didn't like the approach of police whenever their safety concerns were were vocalized? Is it that, you know, that, you know, all sort is it because there's, there they have a different view of what flock means, right, and and and license plate readers mean from that within that area than other areas? We can understand that and then we can take some of these approaches that we've
discussed so far of going over policy or reviewing policies or, looking at reviews of particular footage or whatever it is. But I think starting from the community first, hearing what they what their concerns most are with a very systematic approach, and then deciding how we approach what we prioritize on a month to month basis feels like it could be a really good method for not putting ourselves first, not putting the police first, but putting the community first and making sure that we're holding the police accountable for what the community's concerns are.
Right. I like that a lot. Me too. And I think positives. I mean, I've seen some I've seen some amazing police work with mental health crises. Yeah. It's just really exceptionally well done. Me too. And and I and that's that's another big part of what I really hope we're able to do is to not only just shine the light on some of the things that are a little less pleasant, but also being able to shine the light on exceptional work. Because one way to to to not incentivize exceptional work is to ignore it.
Mhmm. And so if we if we just, are only focusing on the negatives, then I don't think that's gonna be, very motivational for the folks who are trying their hardest. And and, so I I really do think that that that kind of approach like I was describing, I think it I think what that will do is it'll help people understand there's a cadence as well to, okay, every month we're gonna be out there constantly learn trying to learn about what are the biggest concerns. Then from there, we're gonna meet, we're gonna talk about this, we're gonna figure out
what are what concerns should we be focusing on for this month. And then we're going to take this multi pronged approach towards focusing on whether it's courtesy or whatever, you know, mission aligned thing we should be focusing on, and we'll do that with whatever tools we have at our disposal. Some some months, perhaps it's not gonna make sense for us to look at body worn camera footage as much. Maybe some months, it'll only be body worn camera footage. Right? But the idea is that we will take an approach that is rigorous towards looking
at an objective towards looking at the community's concerns when it comes to their public safety regarding police. That's that's kind of the view from my perspective. Great. Evan. And I think gun violence is a is a sticky one. I don't think anybody's figured that out yet and that's certainly a community based issue. I think that we could help with maybe or at least listen to. Listen to. Yeah. We do know some of the some of the factors, One of the largest ones being you may know this is people leaving firearms and unlocked vehicles.
Right. And especially, that's how according to the chief, many young people are getting access to firearms. They're just checking cars, finding one open, finding a gun in there, and they're off to the races. And I know there's tremendous frustration in the department with just getting a message out to the public. Lock your car. Bring your firearm in the house. Put it on the lock. You know, you're just contributing to this problem. So, I mean, there's lots of things where we can also help with the messaging, I think. Yep. And I think there's minor things like traffic, like, where I live in town. There's a guy that comes charging through the street with, you know, young kids walking.
It's a quiet street. He's loud, and he's just he's just obnoxious. I mean, he can be obnoxious, but he's dangerous. Yeah. Exactly. Mhmm. What do you do? You know, what can we do about that? Can we have some can we have better speed trap somewhere? Or if the community knows of a place where something's happening Mhmm. Can we notify them and get them involved in a way that's That's a great point now. I just think, you know, getting input on that and then bringing it back to the department saying we're getting a lot of buzz about traffic enforcement in certain neighborhoods.
You know? You know? It's it's just an accident waiting to happen. Yeah. And and I think the the so, again, I think that's the sort of thing that could come through in this model if we are going around and have a systematic approach of getting representing most of the public as best as we can. And then we can kind of coalesce a lot of those concerns. And let's say, some of the biggest concerns that month, you know, maybe it's the summer or something like that, and the the biggest concerns that month are gun violence. Or maybe the biggest concerns on a other particular month are, people driving around in
a busy you know, whenever it's school's school's back in session is, okay, well, people are driving around really fast. Right? Those are both technically police concerns that people could have problems with. Right? The police are not addressing gun violence in the ways that they feel, are appropriate or they aren't addressing traffic concerns in in a way that they're feeling appropriate. It also could just be a messaging issue of the police aren't getting their message out that they actually are going through and doing this, and here's how they've increased their patrols and all that.
And we could still do this kind of investigation or review model to say, alright. We've looked at what the police are doing. Here's what they say they're doing. Here's what they they're going to now try to communicate this to the public more. And also, here's what they the new approach they're gonna take in the next month. Yeah. You know? And and again, like I said, just rinse and repeat and hopefully have something systematic that people aren't confused what the board is doing, but rather they know how to tap in whenever they have something they really wanna say. And and and and I propose that, I think, is increasing our visibility in the
community. I mean, you know, getting, you know, getting our business cards and handing them out and just letting folks know how to reach us with concerns. I just think we've been too much under the radar with so much else going on and so much so many distractions just with all the transitions and Mhmm. Resignations and so forth. I'd really like us to to to raise our profile and and improve our messaging across the board Yeah. In all respects. And because we each have communities we can plug into that are that are that
are different. And I think we need to exploit that. Yep. Okay. Any other thoughts on that? Because I did wanna address a little bit about the, the last item under the set under five seven. Todd, do you have anything else I I have so many things, but I'm not gonna do any help. Okay. I mean, we got we got time. I wonder, mister Walker, if we could if if we could ask of you to, maybe come up with a summary of the potential, models for the board for oversight and and, distribute it to the board for review.
So next month, we can have a discussion and maybe a vote on which model we want to communicate to council that we that we, would be our our choice. Yeah. And I think that would be a good Does that work for everybody? Yes. So at the next meeting, review the various modules. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And What what that might imply, what that might look like. Like, what it entails, or no give a Any and and let's try to formulate that in a way that avoids the the barriers that we've been living with.
You know, a model that doesn't run up against the ordinance, doesn't run up against the union, doesn't run up against the bureaucracy, doesn't run up against Garrity or any of those other obstacles that have been in our way. Because, I don't wanna I don't wanna just keep fighting those battles. Yeah. Well, I mean, objectively, I'll just I just would wanna provide kind of the full scope and just Yeah. Maybe lay out where those barriers exist and what they call in any of the models, let us know that so we can decide whether we wanna relitigate that or
whether we wanna, you know, just move on to something that's not as contentious. And that that would prepare for any future meeting any future joint meeting with city council Yes. Or to be able to speak to that? Yes. And we could present them with with our recommendation and why and the rationale for our recommendation, keeping in mind that they aren't gonna have an access to the to the depth and breadth of what we do, the what we bring to them. And so we're gonna really have to be the messengers on that to them. Yeah. And and I have my my my comment was gonna be more on I'm trying
to be operational without waiting on the monthly. Yeah. Exactly. You know? So my biggest thing is that I think we should consider even forming these subcommittees. Yeah. And and I wonder if even today we might be able to generate some of the the ideas behind them or even figure out what those subcommittees could be. I don't know. Yeah. Committees could be. I don't know. Yeah. I thought that that was kind of a goal of putting the the board member roles and tracking. That was more about what what roles does the board need to fill, and that could be the formative committee's check board. I mean, one off the top of my head is is public outreach.
Yeah. And it it seems like I'm not that only those people would do it, but we would all be part of it. But they that's my people's responsibility for sort of formulating a strategy for that. And highlighting events and Yeah. And making sure the board's aware of that opportunity. Exactly. Yeah. Habitat. And and maybe do a little research on where certain segments of community gather, where we can get access. Yeah. You know, I mean, one of the things that mister Walker and I talked about is is getting a list of the of the neighborhood associations. There's one they're all over town. Each neighborhood has one or most neighborhoods.
Let's have them and see if we can get a list of those so we can invite ourselves. So their meetings, they always they always have huge turnout, but but those are usually the the movers and shakers in those neighborhoods. So, I mean, there's lots of entry points here. Kyle, did you have did you have other points? Yeah. I just was gonna say an overarching thought, which is I think that if we have if we're able to right now kind of generate a few of these subcommittees, then that's good because then that means that some of these people might be able to go start targeting some different tasks throughout the next month, the in their little
subcommittee. But, even if we aren't able to form an actual subcommittee, technically, if someone's like, I'll look I'll look into that, then that's that's someone one person at least that's starting to try to do that. Did you have ideas for other Oh. Categories? Yeah. So honestly, it's funny enough. I feel like James did the did some of the work for us already by Yeah. Putting some of these. Because I've honestly, this these seem like the ones that are most popular. That was what we talked about earlier. Yeah. We talked about earlier. Yeah. And that makes sense to those four. So I feel like what you just mentioned is public relations and community engagement.
And I think the tasks there would really be where do people gather Yep. And and and and Access. Access forming sort of some kind of, like, event sys like, a place where we have a centralized here's all the events that that we're kinda putting together, which can inform the next thing, which I'm certainly interested in being a part of, the evidence based data driven review of policies, practices, and procedures. I think that is part of the way that, you know, we can really do that model that it seems like all of us here tend to seem to like a a data driven approach to understand what the community really wants.
And so if the if the, you know, the the we go around to these different community areas or we under we can engage with the subcommittee that has given us these different areas without within Charlottesville. We go to these. We ask our one question. Yep. You know, we just keep putting them into a central space. Yep. Then now we have a good system to say, alright. What's the thing that seems like people yeah. And so I would love to put that system together. Anyone who wants to join me, feel free to reach out. I don't know if it's realistic if if I could interrupt.
We just have committees as opposed to just sensors. Only There's not that many of us. Committees of one. Yeah. That's kinda where I was I'm like, I'm gonna I would be very interested in doing that. Anyone who wants to join me Which one? The first one? The second one. Second one. Okay. Yep. And I'll I'll I'll jump in on policy and legal review of the board CPD because that's something James and I talk about all the time. Anyone interested in complaint use of force? That sort of subset of stuff? So I would love to join in on the policy review side of that and and so you can count me to to join in.
About it on Mondays anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rory, do you have a do my, question on policy and legal review? Can you just speak to that a little bit more? Are we talking in terms of just like We're talking about the or yeah. Like, kind of thing. Looking through what works, what doesn't work. CPD policies. And the social orders. And what about On both sides. I did that you had a kinda glossary of terms. I I did it's very interesting to me. I don't know which one looked at that. Which one was it? To me, I think Glossary. Which we're talking about of terms. If we're already talking about policy, if we're talking about what the law says That
could be in strict law. Translating that into plain English is a is a challenge. It's a task that Okay. So I'm gonna put that under that. Totally dealt with. I think you should join. I'm yeah. I'd be inclined to think that having a glossary so we're all working off the same page would be a foundational step. No. I think you're right. May have to allocate reallocate or allocate this differently based on how that turns out. I think part of the value of it is the having a focus of that this is a glossary for the community to use rather than, like, okay. Maybe the police the police department's policies have all this in there.
Fine. That's aimed towards police officers. Yeah. The community are For us and the community. Yep. Yeah. That's great. That's my thought. That's great. I love that. Not just not just kind of copying and pasting the the the the definitions, but some translation as well. I love that. And and refining them if we need to, you know. I mean, it's it's causing And that and that goes into the review. We'll see. Okay. Yep. That's fantastic. So we already got now that's an actual subcommittee because it's got three people. And we can serve on more than one committee. Andrew, did you have a preference? I'm flexible. So I was I was looking at the, operating procedures which define the the committees.
So could the the subcommittee a subcommittee or I'm sorry. Not a subcommittee, but a committee could be created, from I guess because there's technically committees and then subcommittees of those committees. I don't know why we would ever get that. But but yeah. It does say two or more members. So two members can be a committee. Now one important note is that if the board votes to create a committee Mhmm. And with a delegated purpose, the work of that committee is public record as part of that, even if it is only two members.
Yeah. So just generally, just think about that. We could also the board could also kind of get the sense of, like, let's formulate this and then maybe operationalize it at the next meeting and say, here's what actually needs to be established. Here's what can be just done by individual members. Okay. That's I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Because I just wanted to make sure we're reading the Yeah. I and I hear you on that because, you know, you're you're saying that if we were to, let's say, do something that involves two people, then now and decide
we vote right, like, today that it's a committee that has x y z purpose. Now anytime those two people meet, it has to be public and it has to go through Well, it's not that that that meeting of those two people have to be public, but the work that they do is spoiled. I see. I mean, the alternate model would be one one person on each with input from whomever. I mean, not as a committee, just as board members, you know, sharing perspective, sharing ideas about that category of stuff. And I think that's gonna be going back to, I think it was, like, last
spring, we were talking about individual roles of the board, just kinda like a point person. Yeah. That's what I'm just that's what I'm doing. I I don't I don't know if that would be an initial good step to say, hey. Here's the point person for this, this, or this. And maybe it's determined that a committee is needed for something that takes more time. Side, but at least that would get started and avoid some of the bureaucratic Right. Baggage. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, I if if the biggest thing is a FOIA, that were that would be the I don't think that's any that's no concern for any Yeah. I was gonna say that doesn't feel frightening.
No. No. It does. It's I mean, we're talking about it right now. I openly I think we want this to be a very transparent process in every in in so many different ways. I I just am trying to think if there's other things that would I, I'd be, accidentally breaking, you know, something in an ordinance. That would be unfortunate. If I were, let's say, meeting and it wasn't on, you know, publicly available to people or announce a certain the small meetings, Three of them will be due. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. I think as a as a new person, I think of police oversight is to
find what you're doing wrong. And really, I think what we need to be is inviting the police to come and say, how can we help you if we can? I mean Yeah. They have a hard job. Yeah. But, and and we're not, you know, we're not really able to do this so much. Right. Yeah. But the fact that we have the attitude that we want to collaborate and make it better as opposed to looking for things that they're doing wrong Yeah. Makes a lot of sense to me. And I think in some ways, that's the current culture. I mean, we could do better at it. But I think No.
I I I think that speaks to the the, cooperative relationship. I mean, it's yes. We have alternative goals sometimes, but it doesn't have to be adversarial. Under the prior leadership of the department. It was just everything was about. Right. Nothing was hit there was nothing forthcoming. It was just a thick wall between the board and leadership of the department. And this has been a refreshing change. He's a Welcome change. He's a collaborator. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And and not to switch us back to the committees to to abruptly, but I'm
Please. I'm just trying to think about this, because I really do wanna vote on this if possible Yeah. If we think it's appropriate. But in the case and, this is more of a question for James. So in the case that the committees are voted on, is this something that, you know, what what is the benefit of that versus, from from your perspective? Is it that now this is publicly available and it's also it needs to be voted on to not to to take them out? And so it's kind of a good longevity sort of plan to say, we value
these three or four things. We think that they should exist within the PCOB. And until we, as the PCOB, do not think it is, they should they they will remain. Well, one caveat is Yeah. You know, my preference would be that we we individually Yeah. Express a preference because we're gonna have new members presumably Yeah. Coming on board and I'd like to wait for that to give them an opportunity instead of and so maybe have point people at this point rather than committees. I like that. And I do wanna correct something I just stated because I'm, I'm reading the policy
as as we're talking. So it it, our operating procedures do clearly say, committee, subcommittee, or working group of two or more, and these are compliant with FOIA's open meeting requirements. Okay. I see. Yeah. That would be considered an open meeting. That's And that's different than the current status of non in a nonofficial committee. I think what you're asking is what is the benefit of committee? Yeah. Well, the benefit of a committee would be, I guess, to kind of formalize that role and those recommendations Yeah.
That are being worked on by a smaller subset of the of the group. So But the full board could do that. The they could and or or smaller collections of of one or two members could work on things Yes. And present it to the board or provide it to the board. I think yeah. With new members coming to, that could also be We have two factors going on, which I think might make it premature to look at forming committees. And one of which is we still got two open slots, and the other which is we're going into the holidays. Mhmm. People are gonna be busy. That's a good point.
Not that I wanna slow things down. No. No. No. Do it right than do it twice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you on that. I mean, I I think there's a sort of a a a pent up you know, we've sort of been in the in in the starting gate here for five months, and and so some of us are feeling some push from that. But you're I I agree. Your your point's well made. However, I do think that I will still stay on as I mean, I'm doing this this kind of work generally in my day job anyway, so it's it's already on my mind. Okay. That yeah. I'm I think I especially if I take the approach of I'm I'm gonna do
this and anyone else who wants to join and and help out, feel free. And then I will present what I have done on the like, in the background, to the to the board, you know, when it comes to, let's say, evidence based. Data driven part. Yeah. That that's just one of them. I mean, I I would also do the policy and legal review part too. I just perhaps I just like I just I just really like, you know, getting into this and working. Yeah. But, yeah. And and yeah. I but I I maybe for now, I'll just openly say that that I Okay.
I would love to be the point person for the evidence based part. Okay. And and I don't know if, Jeff, you feel comfortable just penciling in your name for the policy and legal. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Albie, do you have a preference? I'm I'm thinking I'm kinda on another track. Okay. Sorry. I'm thinking of us getting to know each other a little bit better. Okay. What our backgrounds are and what our how we can work together collaboratively most efficiently. So maybe wait on some of some of some decisions. I mean, no. That's fair. I mean, I don't know. Andrew, do you do you I think I think we'll get a better product Okay.
If we know each other better. Yeah. I mean, to be to be fair, our two new members are being kinda thrown into the middle of Yeah. I know. And two new members are being Hard to keep up with it. One one thing in terms of maintaining the interest of a potential new member Yeah. Six or seven on the board. That's a good point. We don't want them to necessarily shut down avenues because they're already overstaffed, adequately staffed. Yeah. Exactly. Mhmm. That's a good point. So let's let's just, table this. Yeah. And then we can't start working on it individually thinking about it.
But One of the things that I heard from the from the group, especially doctor Dobson, and and maybe this is something that you would wanna do if working on a series of community types of questions or strategy or a plan to go about that could be brought to the board at the next meeting to review and potentially vote on as an approved thing that the board would carry forward as its way of community listening, understanding. That way it could move that item forward in a meaningful way. The other item I had was bringing the models of oversight Models of oversight.
To to review and discuss. So that's at least two things that could be brought the next board meeting that the board could at least discuss, if not also take action on. And I it doesn't have the board doesn't need to take action on it, but I would like to see if we can continue to try to get those neighborhood association contacts and and just the that directory. Somebody must have it. I don't know if MDS has it or, James, but I don't know if you can ask, miss Marshall. She knows, but if we could track that down. And any other collectives but me.
I mean, it might be good to start forming kinda like a A list. A list. Yeah. Absolutely. Different I mean, there's all kinds of things. All kinds of there's civic groups, you know, there, you know, there's a different well, I mean, there's tons of groups Yep. That we might wanna tap into. So okay. Alright. Anything else on item seven? If not, I'll open it up for a public anything else before we do that? Do you have anybody online? We have one person online.
Her hand is not currently raised. If If you'd like to speak at this time, you can click the raise hand icon. It's a three minute warning on comments. Raise your wrist. No. I just had bunches of questions. Okay. And just maybe you just wanna consider them or if you know the answers to it, you can answer them. So when we're talking about Would you be able to just introduce yourself and then Oh, sorry. The state of your resident of the of the city or the county? My name is Zach Reeves. I'm actually a Cabana County resident, but I work for this department of human services,
for the city. So we're talking about the complaints that people make. I was we're just wondering if there's any way to track what the racial and socioeconomic, makeup of those people that are that are complaining, and, like, what area of the city they live in. Can can you make a note of that, mister Walker, if we see if that date is available? I can speak to that, but, it better if you go ahead and share your full set. Other question was, with chief conscious, we do have sort of unprecedented access to data.
But if he were to lead, is that still gonna be possible? Like, is there some policy written that the board has this ability to continue to look at, you know, camera footage or whatever it is, or that just ends when he leaves? So I think my understanding is, you know, that policy is at his pleasure and his successor whether to be one to reverse it. Well, I again, I I can speak to that in detail about policy. Do you have other questions? Just the last one. Are you talking about public outreach?
What is the plan or make sure you incorporate a plan to reach out to the immigrant communities? Yes. Yes. For sure. And that was really it. Okay. Good. Yes. Go ahead, James. If you Yeah. Just to to speak clearly on those, just, about tracking the the ratio of the demographics of complaints received. So part of the complaint form process is for for those who complain to self identify those things. They can choose to or whether they choose to or not. That includes things like they have to they do have to provide an address.
So we get could create a map of where complaints are coming from based on address in the city. Whether or not they identify race, gender, that's up to them. So sometimes we do collect that data and we do have that data. Sometimes we don't, and that's up to the complainant. It the assumption of it would not be appropriate for the office to assume those things and fill in something randomly. So it's up to them. We do ask if if they wanna fill that information in, and that is part of that complaint process. So yes and no is the answer to that question.
It is offered as a collected item, but not everyone has to fill that out. Then to answer the question about the change in chief, so there are two documents that are, official kind of policy. One of them is called the standard operating procedure. That is an agreement between the board and the the police department. The board's ordinance does govern the need to have that document in place. However, that document is an agreement between the board and the chief. And so that document outlines the way that the board is able to access information
from the department. So that's one one aspect of it. There's another document called the memorandum of understanding. Relationship with the chief, and that kind of back and forth between the board and the chief to work out the details. However, the thing that forces all of that to occur is the ordinance of the board. The ordinance does say that the the board will have access, primarily through the office to all of the records, files, and things that are needed for the board to conduct its authorized purpose.
So it does get down into the details of that, and those details may change if there's a change in the chief. But those details are still required to be figured out by a new chief. I guess that's the best way to to to present that. So the MOU would just change as the police chief. Chief? Correct. It it may or may not. That that would be up to a a conversation between the board, the city manager, the chief of police. That that conversation would have to occur as defined by the ordinance. Yep. Gotcha. Okay. Alright. And then just to answer the the last one really quick, we just took that note.
I believe that would be a a very, important consideration to take into the the strategy and the plan. Mhmm. Alright. Another question. So thank you. And, yep, you just you can take up to three minutes to share or or ask questions. I just want to let that go all the finish all the way, and then we can respond if needed. Thank you very much. My name is Rafi Dautzay. I'm the Charlottesville City resident. And I'm really happy seeing the, civilian oversight committee on police. It's a new like, I'm being new to the city and to The US, as
well. I come from Afghanistan through special immigrant visa program, and I'm a UVA student at Batten. I'm a second year grad student, and I was interested and luckily got the chance to come and attend this session. I have, I'm really happy that this was included in the discussion that there would be a strategy plan to, as it's mentioned in the board work plan for the awareness of the immigrants as lady, also mentioned. Many people are not aware that there is a civilian oversight committee.
Mhmm. So as you stated that there should be a strategy to reach out to the community Mhmm. And people to know that there is a committee, a board who can help them out to navigate how things can be solved. Even, like, I've seen I've heard that some of the Afghan kids have problems in schools, like their fights, and that has led even to police departments. Mhmm. So probably sometime that may come up and end up in this committee. Mhmm. And, I think the awareness mechanism, once it's put in place and people are aware
that there are certain boards, people that they can help them how to approach to such incidents. Yes. Yeah. And I and I appreciate that. It's already, like, discussed. So, I have no no questions. Just wanted to to thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for your comments. And please stay in touch with us. Sure. Go baton. Any other, comments tonight? I don't know in the back, Calvin. I have one last thing. I'm not sure the community is completely clear on what's gonna happen with flock.
There were a lot of there were a few people here asking questions and It's undecided at this point, really, because the concerns that were raised at the meeting that you and I attended Right. And it got tabled and there was there's been a strategy meeting yesterday that got postponed. So I think it's it's it's unresolved. Is that your understanding, mister Paul? That's the best word I could use. To my knowledge, it's unresolved at this time, Brent. It's not currently active, because the the pilot study ended, and it was discontinued at that time. So Because I don't wanna disappoint the police if it's helping them solve shootings and
things like that. I mean, we I think we wanna look at these things both ways. Yes. We have our own views, but we we wanna hear the police views too. And I get the feeling that they're thinking that's really helpful. And it's Well, I think their data suggests that it is. I think I think the ongoing argument is is about privacy concerns. And I'm I'm not sure they other than just do away with it, I think they've done everything humanly possible with the seven days with putting in a lockbox for ICE and DHS and all these other precautions.
But if someone raised I mean, I guess, ultimately, if the company that owns Flock, you know, decides to come in and try to access their data, it'd be a poor flight. But I mean And and just as a reminder, we did as a board or at least portions of this Yes. We did actually review the policy of, license plate readers, for Charlottesville Police Department. Myself in particular, I put a lot of, time and energy into, attending to to the wordsmithing of these things. And I actually I quite appreciated the the the document itself, but had did have
some notes, and it was, you know, communicated to, the police department. But, that was before we had a lot of movement within the board and and we're able to actually implement these things. So that's that's also why I'm very eager to to get us into these, committees and whatnot because that's the kind of action that I really hope we can do Yeah. In a very collaborative sense. Because also, I I think we actually have a very, good relationship with the police department in a way that they're very interested in listening to us, and they want
to see the board function as it's meant to be, to be another perspective and and oversight. And and so, they were I think they're all ready for us as well, and they're kind of impatiently kind of excited for us to to function as well so that they can be able to use this certain other perspective to inform license plate reader policy and and to see if they're actually doing this well. And and I'll add to that, Ali, that with Fundamentals, our former director, we did have input. We didn't have a form. I mean, originally, we did and then we didn't, but we had input on policy
at the time and the pilot. And, and we can certainly revisit it. And now that we do have a form, you know, but, we we we did weigh in with our concerns, but also with some support for for something that we thought had, gave the law enforcement an advantage for the kind of crimes that they target with fly. Gun crimes, stolen vehicles, carjackings, missing children. Those those are typically the kinds of things. So So we know if it's gonna be reinitiated? We don't. That's what everyone's waiting for that decision and I think it all a lot lies
with council. Yeah. It would. Council will make that decision ultimately with input from the chief and input from us if we choose. We want more input and input from the city manager. Let's say it does continue, though. You have a fresh set of recommendations that could be brought up and and reviewed by the board to create an official position recommendation. Yeah. Definitely continue. Hopefully. I mean, it depends on whether that was a lost effort or not. But Do you know if there are data points that are pending that would be necessary before the city council could make an action?
Oh, no. I think the city the chief has has kept them apprised of the of the statistics. And, I mean, I have the numbers. I don't have them off the top of my head about the the number of, of hits they've had on flock during the pilot of the year and and the number I think, was a 180. Well, the, from the night that we attended, they were presenting information. I think there was the the count was 84 resolved cases or investigations as a result of A 100 some hits. Out of, like, 220 or something like that.
So but the police department has that data on the successes. That hasn't really been the scope of the office. The office has been more on the is it being utilized in accordance with the policy focus? And it is and does the policy need another look in terms of the boards sort of being the voice of the community? You know, do do we bring them additional privacy concerns or other concerns? That but, you know, there was a there was an attempt. I mean, we have the shortest retention period in the state, and and, that came
about because of some public outcry about the thirty day retention. So, I mean, it's not that they haven't been responsive. It's just that they were you were here. How did you know we're here? Some other additional policy concerns, sort of broad I thought broad policy concerns for that. And even Joe Platania agreed with Yeah. The report's attorney agreed that how it has been formulated and implemented is So I guess the discussion is what what can we do to fix that without just without having them to say, well, we're not gonna use it anymore.
Right? It's solving crimes. Yeah. It's a useful tool. How do we protect the privacy? Get rid of your cell phone? Yes. We know where you are, who you talk to, who you text, who text you. Alright. Any any other business of the board? I wanna welcome our new members again. Thank you, mister Walker, for your presentation. Do you have anything else? I don't. It sounds like we have a couple items that might be able to come to the board by the next month that we have some movement. In our weekly meetings about that. Try to specify. Thank you for your time. Can I have a motion to adjourn? Second.
All in favor? Aye. You all? The meeting's okay.