Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet. If anyone else is recording this meeting, please notify the chairman. Pursuant to Governor Healey's March 29th, 2023
signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain CO 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Chattam Board of Health is being conducted in person and via remote
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pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simalcast on Chadam Cadam TV channel 8 and 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide real-time access. We
will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. Now, I'll turn the meeting over to our chairman, Dr. Noble Hansen. >> Thank you. Uh it shall be the policy of this board to conduct its meetings under the open meetings law so as to encourage public participation whenever time
permits and as part of agenda item discussions. So we have four items on the agenda today and we will establish a quorum and when I call your name please say present. Carol Boyce >> here. >> John Beckley >> present. >> Uh Dick Edwards >> present.
>> And uh alternate Joanna Kale will come up as a regular member today. Joanna Kale >> present. and Noble Hansen present. >> Okay. >> Do you want me to just make the announcement about Milh Hill? We wait till after. >> Uh you can whenever you like. You want
to do it now? >> Yeah, let's just >> Okay. >> Um I just wanted to let the board know this is not on the agenda and so it's not really for discussion, but um the cleanup at 32 Milh Hill Road is basically complete as of today. Um
there's some scrap metal that he wants to keep and some wood and paving >> stones and such. >> Tires too. >> Tires and the um they should be gone this afternoon. There's a pile of tires and hazardous materials, propane tanks and um
gas tanks and things like that. That those are all going out to a hazardous waste collection um facility today. So, okay, >> we're basically completed with that. >> Wow. It all went very smoothly. >> Um, >> how many days did they take to do the work? >> It took a week.
>> Did take a week. >> A week today. Well, work days. So, five days basically. Started last Tuesday and they finished today. >> It went faster than they projected. Then >> it went very well. Yeah. So, so um I can
next week I can show I we did send you some pictures but next week we can put it on the agenda and I can answer any further questions or um and then we can have a discussion >> if Greg has any question if you have any questions that Greg can answer we can do that as well. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> All right. Um, first on our regular
agenda is a request for extension to upgrade failed septic system and connect to town sewer for Russell Peterson, 7 Pawn View Avenue. And um, do we have someone here that's going to present the case for that? Uh,
>> Mr. Peterson, do you want to come up to the mic? >> Yeah. Um do you >> Yeah. So this this is uh a property which is undergoing a transfer of ownership. It has a septic system which
has been inspected. It is is deemed failed by the board of health. and um there's a question of the municipal sewer coming through it in a reasonable period of time and they'd like uh to be able to uh not replace the title 5
system and hook up to sewer when it's through. So this is the case that's being presented. >> Right. I I have uh spoken with uh Joe Martins and uh he recommends that I maintain this every six months until I
get um hooked up to the town sewer. I am uh ordering engineering plans uh this month as we speak. >> Right. So So you are you you will have a contract to put in the the hookup in
advance. You you do that right away. >> Yes. What I'll do is I'll just m I've been advised to u maintain the system have it pumped out until every six months until we're ready to hook up uh next year. Um it's either in the spring
or in the fall. >> Can I ask a question? >> Right. Yeah. And yeah, Judy, I had one question was um is it says that the uh municipal sewer is projected to come through fall of 2026. How firm a projection is that? I
>> I think that's pretty firm. They're they're um completing the pump. The the lines are already in the road there. They just need to complete the pump station and then they need to get approval from D to um start the connections. So, they're hoping that
basically that the pump station will be done by the springtime. So, >> so do you do you plan to do the the four things that are listed in this recommendation? Install the riser.
>> That would be >> I don't have that in front of me. >> Yeah. So, those were my recommendations based on Joe Martin's B recommendations. I said immediate pumping of the septic tank and leech pits, installation of a riser with an accessible bolted plastic cover on the lawn tank to allow for
periodic inspection and pumping and then establishing a service contract um with a licensed septic company for an inspection and pump pumping every six months and then um engaging in a licensed engineer to design the future sewer connection. My cor question to you
is are are you representing I know you're the seller so are you also going to represent the buyer moving forward or I'm a little confused. I >> I'm handling the project uh right now and I'm setting everything up. So
it'll be ready by the time he takes the house. So I guess the question for for you Judy is can can can he accept the responsibility for your conditions for the for the seller for the buyer or does the buyer
have to be involved as well? I don't remember how we do it. >> I don't know. Have you passed papers on this yet? >> No. No, we have not. >> So I mean this would have to be part of the uh agreement between the buyer and the seller. >> Right. So, he would have to notify the buyer at at the at the closing and then
the buyer would have to agree to that as well >> or that those conditions are on the property. >> Will the building will the house be occupied >> between now and whenever it is connected to the public sewer? >> Yes, I'm living there alone right now.
>> Okay. >> Right through the fall, winter. >> Okay. >> And into the spring. So, is the plan to not transfer the property until after the sewer connection is done? >> No. >> No. They want to transfer it now as part
of the purchase and sale contract. >> Yeah. >> Then how can Mr. Peterson be responsible for maintaining the septic after it's transferred? >> Didn't want to answer that question. >> I would have to be some legal, you know,
the I think Um, >> it could take a year. >> Is it maybe is there is it a family member or something that's purchasing it? Can you explain it? It's a little unusual. >> You need to go up to the to the
>> Hey, uh, Russ, my son Russell is going to live there for three years. just a family friend member who's going to come in and purchase the property, but Russell's going to be there for at least three years and everything will be taken care of. It was my mother's house built by Kenneth Proctor in 1976
and it's been in the family ever since and basically it's everything is working out and the uh we haven't had any issues and they've been working on the street. I took some pictures this morning and the line and the and the caps to the sewer line is just about ready to be
capped over and they're going to re uh redo the the service the service. They're going to redo it. So basically Russ is going to be there and everything will be under control and working. >> I mean once they pass papers it's legally the responsibility of the legal
owner. So >> who legally owns the house >> right now? They do, but they're going to be passing paper. >> Russell or >> I'm the owner. >> Russ. Yeah, >> Russ. That's me. >> Russell. >> If we So, if we if we grant this, can can we um state that the conditions have
to be passed on to the uh potential buyer and and agreed to and signed off? >> Yeah, we can request department of the same conditions so that we have that that would be part of the closing. >> Can we do that? >> Yes. >> It's a stipulation. could be a deed condition.
Um, I think just a a signed agreement between the buyer and the seller would be adequate to keep in in our records and then if something comes up six months from now, we can say, "Well, this is what you signed." And >> what is what is the basis of the
sixmonth check? can I mean how do we know how actively sluggish or actively it's not failing I guess but >> is 6 months frequent enough
>> I think it is I mean Russ has been living in the property um for the last >> 28 years 28 years um what we did see was some signs of there's two pits there one was full and >> which one this first one or the second
one are they in series or do they get each each get a half of >> it's on there's a picture on the >> Do you live there by yourself so there just one occup I raised my kids and I'm I'm living there by myself >> there's yeah I'm not sure which one I'd have to kind of dig into this a little bit but um one was full and one showed
signs of having being about half full um but it's not at the moment >> so what happens if what happens if between now and 6 months the hydraulic load on that system >> well I mean >> breaks out or
>> you know I guess it depends on how close we are to the sewer. Um but we would just it would be frequent pumping more frequent than every six months to to get them through to the sewer can >> and how would we know that it was hydraulically failing? Would it be
>> would it be ponding on the backyard? Would it be breaking out? >> It would be ponding. It would be could be back up into the dwelling. Um >> okay. >> So >> So Mr. It's going to be pumped now. >> Yeah, it's going to be. >> And when was the last time it was pumped? >> Two years ago.
>> Two years ago. But I've been living there alone, so it's it's not >> not a lot of flow. >> It's not like it used to when I had a family of five in the house. >> Right. >> So we we we're watching it. We're monitoring it. >> So you will know by living there. >> It's not an emergency. We don't have
anything backing up. >> Correct. >> And it's it's in >> and they already did replace um the distribution box and um >> Right. Okay. So, >> and I suppose if it if it further fails, we could make a stipulation that that
they return to the >> it has be pumped as need as needed. >> Pump as needed. >> Pump as needed. >> That's right. >> Yep. >> It's going to be pumped out. >> No problem. >> And what? >> Okay. And did so do you want do you understand the conditions that that uh
Judy put down? She went through them quickly. I >> I have a quick question. You said it was pumped out two years ago. >> Yes. How many people were living in it at that time? >> Just myself. >> Just so >> and we're going to watch this every six months now and I'll have the engineering plans and as soon as we get the go, we
will set it up and hook it up to the town sewer. >> Okay. And so the so Judy's conditions were immediate pumping, installation of a riser for access, establishing a service contract with a licensed septic company, so and pumping it every six
months, >> engaging a licensed engineer now to design the future sewer connection in preparation for a timely hookup. >> Yes. I just want to make it clear um we're having um Clark Engineering make the uh engineering plans for us.
>> Okay. And I've also I've been advised by Joe Martin's company who has done the uh the report and inspection. Um there's four steps he wants me to do and he he didn't say anything about um
installing a riser near the road. Okay. >> He did >> not not necessary. >> That was in his letter. >> Okay. And so, and he doesn't decide what the conditions are either, but right, >> um, his his, uh, memo to us did say that he'd like a riser so they can get in and
pump as easily. >> Riser is simply on top of the septic tank to allow easy access, >> but we're not we're only using it for another uh, you know, 6 months to a year. So, it doesn't make sense. >> It's a plastic riser. It's a minimal expense. So, >> and it's not
>> it's it's not uh >> is it pumped through the riser? >> The tank the pit. They want to be able to pick to pite >> to pump the pit out. >> The No, you're not talking about the seage pit. You're talking We have the septic tank, >> right? So, >> now we have a debunk.
>> Yeah. The main tank and then we have the the field which is under the driveway. >> I thought there's two two sepage pits. >> There's two pits. He's recommending that that a riser be put it on on the lawn tank to allow for periodic inspection for pipe for pumping
>> when Okay, I'm confused still. Is that a tank? Is that the septic tank or we talking about a riser above >> I think he seepage pit. >> Let me look at the picture again. >> Going directly to the uh >> pump the septic tank and the lawn pit. Install a riser and exceedably excessive
bolted plastic cover over the lawn pit and monitor the level in the lawn pit with a graduated rod to determine liquid level every 6 months until sewer hookup. >> So that it it doesn't make sense to put that riser in out there at all because there's only one person living there and
we had it pumped out two years ago and we're going to do it again. I mean there's there's no need to do that. >> Ground is hard as iron. There's no soft spots anywhere on the property. What was the date of the inspection >> because there was evidence of sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl sl
sluggish uh >> there was one in in August I believe it was >> September. >> September. >> Okay. So as of September there was clear evidence that that the effluent was not moving down in a way the way it should. >> It needs to be pumped out and we're
going to do that. That that's what >> I know. We we are um we've had Robert Bour um he's been maintaining this >> every time we need it and he has all the records >> and >> but that's for that's for every several years you get this you get the the
solids pumped out of the tank >> not every several years every uh uh >> every couple >> two to four years when when the family was there we were doing it you know within threeyear period >> okay >> so it's not like it's been sitting for seven years that's not >> but that was to pump the solids, the
accumulated solids at the bottom of the tank. >> That doesn't happen. >> You have an engineer who looked at it and says it needs a riser. I guess the option is further and get another engineer >> to look at the property and say if it
doesn't need a riser. But we have a document that said >> Yeah. So, so Joe Joe Martin has said a communication to to the uh health department. I don't know if you have it, but he one of his conditions is specifically install a riser and um the
health department recommendations were basically keyed off um of of uh >> what Martin recommended. >> So, we're kind of going by that and he's been involved with the system. One one other thing that came up on the inspection is there's a garbage disposal
system in the house. >> Doesn't get used really. Um, but you you're you can't have a you're not supposed to have a garbage disposal system with with the septic system. So >> that was put in when grandmother was there. >> Yeah, it was put in in 1976. >> Must be a very good
>> This is a 50y old uh >> I'm I'm not saying that they haven't been put in in the past, but according to the rules um that needs to be removed. >> There's always new rules. >> So that's I mean it's the garbage disposal for the sink. They just take it out and a little bypass. It's not a huge thing, >> but that would be Do you think that
should be one of the conditions, Judy? >> Yeah, sure. I do. I mean, that's all >> that'll be one of the conditions as well. >> I have a garbage >> to put the riser in. >> No, that he's talking garbage. >> No, this is >> remove the garbage. >> Oh, >> the riser is separate. The garbage disposal is a new condition. Just remove
it under the sink. Pretty simple. Not supposed to be there, actually. But the riser is in Martin's recommendations, and I think we would probably hold to those. >> Yes. Unless there's some of the board feels otherwise. >> We actually haven't been using it. I mean, it just
water goes into the sink. >> That's it. >> So, um, yeah, those are the conditions that I would recommend, including removing the garbage grinder. Yes. Um, and the plastic riser, which is not that big of a deal really because if they're
going to have to if they're if the system does >> start filling up too quickly, um, they need to get at that easily and that's what allow the routine pumping as necessary. >> It can be inspected too in three months. You know, you don't have to wait six months. I mean, you may if you have the
riser, it facilitates, right, >> really easy spot checks, >> right, >> at any point in time. We're not talking a lot of money to put in this riser. >> I don't think so. >> Okay. So, maybe we can have Judy read the conditions. There's there's five of them now. Once again, for the record,
and then we can I can get a uh a motion to approve. >> So, number take a vote. >> Yep. So, number one would be immediate pumping of the septic tank and leech pits. Install installation of a riser with an accessible bolted plastic cover on the lawn tank. I'm assuming he's
meaning the the pit in the lawn to allow for periodic inspection and pumping. Establish a service contract with a licensed septic company for inspection and pumping of the system every six months or as needed. Engage a licensed engineer to design the future sewer
connection in preparation for the timely hookup when service becomes available. Remove the garbage grinder. And then I would add should the system fail prior prior um to the one year that um it must be pumped >> one year until the availability
>> until the availability of the sewer, it must be pumped out as necessary to keep it from um any surface overflow. >> Right. >> Okay. Um >> it's okay. >> Any input from the public? >> You want to say anything?
over here. >> I'm Russell's mother and I'm asking one question. Can this property 7 Pawn View Avenue be get a tax exemption because of this issue? because
the intention was to hook up to the sewer when the town was ready and it isn't ready. So here is a limit of here's a time frame of a six months a year who knows
is there a possibility that this property seven pawn view street that property could be tax exempt. >> Well you' have >> tax exempt. Yeah, you'd have to speak to the the assessor's office. We don't do
exemptions for taxes. So that's out of our purview. >> So you can't No, I would go to tax office in town. >> Yes. >> Okay, that's all I want to know. >> Okay, thank you. Any other um input from the public?
>> Yeah, she knows. >> Yeah. >> Any further questions from the applicants? We have S and I have been uh owners of the Chattam townhouse in for 30 years. >> 30 years. >> We know >> library going on here. >> Okay.
>> The townhouse in and the two turtles. >> The two turtles. >> Can I still with the old inkeepers? We're still walking. >> Yeah, we're still walking around. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh All right. Can I get a motion to um uh for the for the Okay. I move to
approve this variance with the condition stated. >> Second. >> And then uh we'll take a uh a vote. Uh Carol Boyce, >> yes. >> John Beckley, >> yes. >> Dick Edwards, >> yes. >> Joanne Kale, >> yes. >> And Noble Hansen, yes.
>> Okay. So, you're granted uh with the conditions to do what you want to do. >> I'll put together a letter that you can pick up later this week. >> Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Okay. Next on the agenda is a variance hearing in approval of IIA technology
for Robert and Jessica Sacko 44 Chat Harbor Lane a perfect environment LLC. >> Is that the green light on that? You can sit there. Yeah. If that's easier for you. >> I never send anybody to that. And then
we have someone here to present the case for the variance. >> Microphone. Mike, >> you got to turn it upside down, I think. Is the Is the green light on? >> Green light's on. >> Okay. Um Glenn Harrington representing
the property and the owners at 44 Chad Harbor Lane. Um Bob Saco, the owner, is here with me. Um this plan is uh before you
proposed increase in flow. There is an existing three-bedroom dwelling on the property and there was a garage, a detached garage built a couple of years ago with an upstairs um which is unfinished and they wish to finish that and have a bathroom upstairs
which would be treated as the fourth bedroom. So per regulation um an Advantex AX20 treatment unit has been added to provide uh nitrogen
reduction and meet the nitrogen loading uh requirements for for the property. It is a 34,169 square ft property and with the four bedrooms, the advanced treatment is
necessary to meet the nitrogen loading. Uh the nitrogen loading calculations are on the plan. Um by title five standards, the property could handle five bedrooms, but that is a one-bedroom request.
Um per the regulation one bedroom may be approved by the board to four bedrooms. Um in the packet I provided um two conditions for nitrogen reduction using the Cape Cod Commission
uh nitrogen loading uh worksheet where um nitrogen reduction was shown for an existing condition at three bedrooms and then also at four bedrooms with the advanced treatment. there was a
reduction um with the advanced treatment versus the three bedrooms from about six parts per million to about four parts per million. So there was an overall reduction in nitrogen with the advanced treatment even with the bedroom addition.
Um I'll take any questions if you have Dick. Um as often happens in this variance requests when we look at the uh plan of the existing house. >> Yes.
>> Uh under some um interpretations of the regulations this would be a four bedroomedroom house because the closet I mean the uh office on the first floor has a window. It has a door. it's of
less than six feet uh and it has privacy and that would make it a bedroom and that would then make this a fourbedroom house asking for a fifth bedroom. I would suggest the way to get around
this would be to um modify the entrance to the office and convert it to a sixoot cased opening. >> I think you have to walk through the office though. The office doesn't have privacy because you have to walk through it >> to get to what
>> to get from I believe the garage to the >> um >> to the main part of the house. >> You walk through the laundry. >> No, there's a door. >> There's a laundry with a door at each end that you walk through. >> You can move the house through. >> Oh, yeah. There is another door. I didn't notice.
>> Yeah, the garage one door to the house would be through the office, >> I guess. >> Oh, what's that door for? There's two doors. Yeah, I didn't notice that. The other door >> you go from the garage to the laundry into the hall of the house. Straight
straight through. That's the quickest way to get into the house according to this plan. >> Okay. I didn't deem it as a bedroom. I think it would be a bedroom because it had you had to walk through it um for
egress into the house. So um if it is considered its own privacy then it may meet the bedroom requirement. >> Dad, did you want to say something? >> Yes. Elder G Southeast. Could I ask is
that directly off of the garage? Is that >> they? Yes. The the office is directly off the garage and that's not usually um allowed to be considered a bedroom because it's direct access to the garage >> per the code building separation between
the garage and a bedroom. You need an or >> which is probably why it was approved originally. >> So it sounds like it can't be a bedroom under the code. >> Oh, good. >> Under building code. >> Makes things >> is that >> Thank you, Thad. >> Thank you. >> You agree with that? >> I do. I was going to say it. Um but I
was >> I had to >> I had a question about the um the playroom on the second floor. It says unfinished. >> Now there is a there is a stairway up. >> There is It remains unfinished and it's storage.
>> Unfinished means what? No sheetrock, no heat, no electricity. What's what's the definition of unfinished? >> I know that it's storage. Um >> it's just raw storage. There's no >> You have to either come here or to the My name is Robert Sacko. Um,
it's raw. It's unfinished storage space. It's not heated or cooled or it we just store furniture. >> There's no heating in it in that space >> and it's attached. >> No heat. >> No heat. So that mean conditioning in
that room. >> That's the definition for us for unfinished >> sheetrock. >> No, >> it does have sheetrock on the wall that faces the back wall to the to the uh to the rest of the home. >> I think it needs sheetrock, heating, and electricity to be a room. No. So
>> there's no heat. >> There's no heat. No. >> Okay. >> Now the town assessor has it listed as a four bedroomedroom, three bath. >> They already have it as >> we don't we don't go by their estimate
because we count bedrooms differently than them. So I don't I don't know. Um >> So would the board of health have inspected this or reviewed these plans in the past? >> Do you know when the house was built? The house was built in 1996.
So, we've been homeowners here since that time. >> Yep. It was be before me. So, um >> me. >> So, I did not review it. But, um >> you know, if I was looking at it today, I would call it a three-bedroom based on
the fact that you do have to walk through the office to get um from the garage. either way. Either way, but it's opens. If that door is there, which I'm assuming it is, there's a door into the office from the garage. Um, we would not
consider that a bedroom. Um, and then the playroom's unfinished. So, I mean, we are looking at changing that rule and and making a clear definition of of unfinished as well. But um so
I I'd have to go back into the building files to see what the original plan looked like, but I'm assuming it's not much different than this. >> So So the board of health would say with the review that that the current house is a would be a three-bedroom house if
it were inspected today. >> Yes. Well, I would. >> Which would then mean that this application is in good order. >> Six. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> All right. Yeah. So, if it's if the the second floor playroom unfinished is unfinished. The office has a a direct door from the garage. So, it looks like it's a three-bedroom
house. And so the the request is 3,400 169 foot lot currently allowed three bedrooms and the variance is to add IIIA technology and then uh be granted a fourth bedroom.
>> I just want to also tell you that they're using an Advantex which is on the best available um nitrogen removing technology list. That's something we've been looking at is that we've been getting a lot of fasts that don't do as well to remove nitrogen, but this one is
um certified by the state as a um best available nitrogen remove. >> Is it a good Is it a good system as far as you know? >> Yeah, they get good numbers. That's there's only two systems um and I think THAD. >> So, you're saying better than the fast system which is the common one which is cheaper. I'm saying they're a hair more expensive
than the fast unit, but I've had so many issues with the fast blowers that I've moved away from them. >> Right. And and actually sometime in the future, we were going to review the different systems and see if we can narrow the list down. But that's >> okay. Um >> Mr. Say my wife and I, you know, we've
been in this home for 30 years with the same system. We feel like we're improving what the situation and reducing the nitrogen load on the property, which we think is a good thing, you know. >> Right. >> Right. The IIA technology for four bedrooms is better than the oldfashioned
for the three bedrooms. It's title five for three bedrooms. So that's why we approve them generally. >> Yeah. >> Um now any any further comment? >> Okay. Any input from the public? Any comments from the public? >> See none.
>> Okay. And then um we can going to get a motion to >> we need Judy to read >> Judy can read the conditions. >> Conditions. >> Um these are our standard conditions. The applicant should restrict the property to a maximum of four bedrooms and record this restriction on the deed
at the Barnsville County Registry of Deeds. The applicant shall submit a copy to the the health division. The applicant shall sign a covenant with the board agreeing to comply at such time as the town of Chadam through its board of health and/or board of water and sewer commissioners directs the connection of
this property to the municipal sewer when it becomes available. Throughout its life, the system shall be under an operation and maintenance agreement. The on&m agreement shall be for at least one year and may be with any masscertified operator of the appropriate grade that has received training by the company.
Effluence from the system shall be monitored at least twice per year for the first two years, preferably May and October. The effluent shall be tested in accordance with mass D standard conditions for secondary treatment units certified for general use uh revised
March 20th, 2015. In addition, a laboratory test of the ephilin for total nitrogen to meet the performance standard of 19 milligrams per liter shall be collected and analyzed by a certified lab. Water meter readings are to be provided with the semianual
report. If any of the field tests or lab tests fail, follow-up tests shall be conducted by a certified lab and an evaluation by the operator within 30 days. After the required two years testing application can be made to the board or their agent for the review and possible modification of the monitoring
requirements. The applicant agrees to apply a minimum of 6 in of compacted top soil to all disturbed areas. The engineer shall submit an engineered asbuilt plan, including asbuilt elevations with a written certification that the system has been installed in accordance with the approved plan. No
alteration to the floor plan of the dwelling or the site plan will be allowed without further review by the board of health and this variance is granted pursuant to the town of Chadam. Um nitrogen loading regulations is valid from one year from the date of the board of health approval. A permit must be
issued and the work commenced during that one-year period or the variance shall expire. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh so we can take a vote and when I call your name, please uh say yes if you approve. >> We need a motion. >> Motion. Yeah. >> Motion.
>> I'll move to approve this uh variance with the stipulated. >> I'll second that >> in the second. Okay. So we can now we can take a a vote. >> Um Carol Boyce. >> Yes. Yes. What?
>> You got to make a sound. >> John Beckley. >> Yes. >> Dick Edwards. >> Yes. >> Joanne Kale. >> Yes. >> Noble Hansen. Yes. Okay. That's granted. >> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. Okay. Now we have the third and the fourth
variance which kind of go together. I think uh the third is a variance hearing approval of IIA technology for 16 Cine Road LLC 160 Woodland Way. And then uh the fourth uh item is variance hearing
and approval of IIA technology for Harvard Builders LLC 170 Woodland Way. East Southeast uh is the engineer involved. And I'll just say that this this variance is a first time for me and all in the board. So, this isn't something we've done before. We probably
don't know much about it. So, we'll have Thaad present it first and ask him some questions and then Judy um has some perspective on this thing and uh can go over it as well from her uh standpoint. So this basically is
variance which requires nitrogen loading credits or what they call aggregation of um nitrogen loading from one property to another. But we'll let THAAD present this and explain things and and we'll
get Judy's involvement. We'll kind of go from there. >> Absolutely. for the record that Eldridge misplaced his presentation. So we have two properties before you 160 and 170 Woodland Way.
170 Woodland Way has um just under it has 19,364 square ft where 160 has 21,222 ft. Uh the proposal for each property is
a similar three-bedroom home with with an innovative alternative technology and the variance associated with that. 160 would be free and clear from the requirement of the prohibition of short-term rentals. 170 could be restricted. Um we'd like to try and get
out of that which is why we're doing the aggregation plan. >> Let me just say one thing. So, but the restriction, as I understand it, is just uh no short-term rental um condition on the smaller property. >> Correct.
>> So, that's that's the only >> that's the only >> because the smaller property by our most current amendment to the nitrogen loading regulation is allowed three bedrooms with the IIA system. >> Yes. >> So, >> with the restriction of no short-term rental. So, this is all about the no short-term rental restriction. So, where
does the no shortterm rental restriction? Why is that applied here? >> Because we have a property with 19,364 square ft. We're requesting the third bedroom. >> So, >> and that's and that's in our um nitrogen loading regulations. That's the board of
health nitrogen loading regulations says that. >> Judy, go ahead. I I I don't know if you remember a few years ago, we restricted two-bedroom houses. If they were under 20,000 square feet, they could not add a third bedroom.
>> And then there was outcry from the public and um the select board. So, we agreed to allow a third bedroom on 10,000 to 20,000 square foot lots um with um a condition that they would not be allowed as short-term rentals because
>> based upon the historic overloading of short-term rentals with too many, >> right? And the concern that the public was making is that if someone had a two-bedroom house and they were growing family, they may want to add a third bedroom. Um so, that's why we changed our regulation. I don't know if you want
to let that continue. That's where that came from. >> And the change in regulations that we did, the overall regulations and then the amendment, one of the things was just quality of life in the neighborhood, crowds, cars, people among other factors. >> People occupying the property if it's an
undersized property, >> uh, you know, even even with the the IA system. But uh >> but I I interrupted that. >> No, no, it's quite all right. This is new territory and I've done a couple of aggregation plans in other towns and
usually it's with a zone too. Um they they are seldom used. Just to take a tangent for a moment. I've provided and you are slated to discuss the best available nitrogen reducing technologies which I wish they
had gotten rid of nitrogen in there and just said BART list because it make it easier just to say BART instead of bear. >> And I can't hear that. >> Oh, I'm terribly sorry. >> Can you get a little loud closer to the >> Sorry. >> Thank you. So I have provided the best available nitrogen reducing technologies
list just the general use technologies that are approved by the DP. Uh there are two there's the star system and there's the advant system and you just heard an application with the advantex. Um we're going with the star for a
couple of reasons. Now the second page of that presentation or that handout that I provided the numbers that came out of out of uh Barnstable for uh the microfast system which we've been proposing a lot of
microfasts over the years and the board has reminded me that they don't always meet the 19 part per million standard. They're about 42% effective. So that's unfortunate and it's a reason to get away from the micro fast until they
increase their technology to to meet the 19 more often. Uh the Advantex system which is on that best available nitrogen reducing technology list uh that meets the 19 part per million standard about 67% of the time.
The star system um has been meeting the 19 part per million standard somewhere between 85 and 92% of the time. The DP standard or the D graph shows a an 85% the Barnstable County actually shows a 92.7%
number of tests that come back meeting the 19. Um if you get a chance to go to that Barnstable County site, it is neat. You can change the parts per million. There's a little slider. So, the Advantex system will meet 10 parts per
million, which is the next standard we're going to be looking at. That meets it about 19% of the time. The STAR system has been meeting that 10 part per million about 68% of the time. >> So, why don't they meet it 100% of the time if that's the standard?
>> Chemistry is messy. >> Yeah. So the best way if if you want to make these systems work, long showers, it's all a dilution. >> It Yeah, it has a lot to do with what
the number is that you start with. So you're trying to get if you're trying to get 50% reduction should bring you down theoretically to 19 if you start at 48 or something. If they're evaluating the various methodologies, can't they
standardize what they're evaluating and then see how >> they try and that's what they do at the test center is they try and standardize input and output and that's probably why the numbers are better at the test center than what the states because the state I think just uses testing from all
over what the company gives them. Isn't that true? Um >> the test centers seem to have a number of tests from all over the the charts are beyond >> and you can see the um >> the state charts are in blue with
>> but there's just a lot of variables with the with the um influent which can cause a lot of changes in um the the amount of reduction you're going to get on the effluent. >> Let me just say one thing and then I'll get Dick John. So it's they they're measuring concentrations, not bulk
removal. You know what I mean? So it's it's kind of a flawed system. That's what she's saying. Dick. >> So two or three years ago, the county health department came here and they did a presentation on all the IIA systems
installed in Chattam and they measured the the effluent from the the I don't know from the le or what and they and they and and they found that far and away the majority of the systems were a
fast system and they only had a 30 or 40% >> compliance with the 19 uh standard >> and and so now we have the star system, the advantage system. We still have the
fast system. Our standards say IA. So fast still qualifies as IIA and somebody can install that knowing that it's highly likely it really doesn't work up to standards and and the
question is what what is the the the the cost differential between installing a fast system and an advantage or a star? >> It's going to be >> a huge amount of money. >> It's going to be double the price for the >> double the star system. So there's a ter
there's a significant economic advantage to using a system that we are uh highly skeptical of. >> What's the ballpark gross number when you say double 10,000 20 50? >> The wholesale price for just the units
um is somewhere between 12 and 15,000. >> Which unit? >> For the star for the microast it's about half of that. So, it's $6,000 difference in a whole system. Now, can a board of health
>> compile a list of approved IIA systems for that town >> and and not allow >> uh yes, >> somebody to install system that we know in Chadam doesn't work well. Why does this why does the county even allow fast
systems if their relative performance is so much lower? >> I think we're getting a little off track, but yeah, I know. >> But yes, I mean, we can say we only want to use technologies that are under the best available nitrogen removal
technology list. That list was created because um they they just deemed the um embements as nitrogen sensitive on the Cape and Chadam being a major you know we have we have the two major embainments the um
>> the the Pleasant Bay and then now we're we're going to be the watershed and the southern >> um areas are going to be but because we have a wastewater management plan um and a watershed permit. We don't need to put
these IIA systems on every system in town. Um, but we have our nitrogen loading rigs which require if they're putting an additional bedroom and they're not getting sewer then we require them to put it on anyways. That's why we've kind of continued to allow the fast systems so that we're
still getting some nitrogen reduction but I think with the idea that eventually they're going to be sewer. It might take 30 or 40 years at this point, but um but we certainly can say we're only going to allow the list of that the
state has approved which only have these two systems on it. >> And I think everything that's showing you is is great information that we should talk about moving forward. >> Can we as a town have a list that's more restrictive than the state list? >> Right.
>> Well, there'd be nothing on it if we >> if we did that. nothing on it. >> I mean, >> tight tanks and >> there's only two systems on their list. So, >> oh, and and if I may, those two are just the general use. There are provisional
and piloting that are approved as well. So, you can get into the nitro and the nitrex and there are several other >> but in answer to to Dick and whatnot, we have talked about trying to >> narrow the recommendations or what we we say when we say IIA and that's sort of
on the agenda. That's partly why we got that person who wasn't particularly helpful. That was just one study. But that's I think is something to keep in mind. Um maybe we can have that come back and give us a more more in-depth presentation at some point. >> And your regulations do allude to the best available nitrogen reducing technology.
>> We did I put that in on the last >> and we'll we'll move on. But the um >> the cost difference in terms of the whole cost of doing the system is not that much either. So it's not that ownorous. So anyway, okay. So continue on with >> I had mentioned the wholesale pricing on these units and then they have to go
into septic tanks that are also purchased. The microfast is a single tank system. Um the star system is two tanks instead. So again, yeah, those um those numbers I mean the star system that's impressive
how well it does. So, um, >> okay, but go on with the presentation for the 160 and 170 woodland. >> The star system also is one of the few that can go in an H20 wheel loading. It can be put in the driveway. A lot of
people prefer that in the driveway because now you put covers to grade. You're not taking up lawn area. The Advantex has these big green covers that go in the lawn that now you're losing some of your lawn area. So for that reason as well, we'd like to go with
STAR to to keep the lawns lawn. So with the nitrogen loading regulations, if we had two lots that were 20,000 square feet, we could request the additional bedroom without the deed restriction
because 160 is oversized by enough to give a little land to 170. We would like to do that, effectively making 170 a 20,030 square foot lot in your
eyes and 160 would be reduced to 20,546 and that's the the whole idea behind aggregation. You grant an easement that credits the other property. >> So it doesn't change the boundary line of the parcel. It just puts certain
legal rights on the property that's giving up so that they don't control 100% of their property in the future. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> And there are a number of restrictions.
You can't pave that area. It can't be part of a wetland or otherwise. This is in the back corner of the property where it's just going to be buffer to the neighbor anyhow. So, it >> it works. Dick. >> So, so this is sort of a novel idea that
this board of health has not encountered before. And so rather than redividing the property and making each property 20,000 square ft or more, we want to do this donation of nitrogen
loading credits simply for the purpose of allowing another short-term rental in that neighborhood. And my one of my issues is what if this was a 14,000 square foot lot next to a
40,000 square foot lot. So you could donate 6,000 square ft of nitrogen loading and you could build a three-bedroom house on a tiny little lot and make it a short-term rental. And there were
several reasons why for for that short-term rental uh uh restriction on lots under 20,000 square feet. It wasn't simply nitrogen. It was crowding and it was a bunch of other
things that came into the that the board of health considered. So I am very much against uh uh starting a precedent of allowing anybody in Chattam who has an 18,000 square foot
lot and wants to build a short-term rental to get nitrogen loading credits from some other lot that doesn't even have to be adjacent uh in the town of Chattam. >> I think >> the two lots don't have to be but it has to be within the town of Chadam. >> Clarify one thing. Um, after we talked
that, I did review our regulations and you can't give nitrogen credits for a lot that's greater than 20,000 square feet. So, it wouldn't be a we couldn't do it for we couldn't take a 40,000 foot lot and give them 10,
>> right? You can't that the >> you can't you can't take it away from the 40,000 square foot lot and give it to a >> What's the largest lot you can take it away? >> 20,000. Well, this lot that you're taking away from is is more than 20,000.
>> 20,000. >> Judy, I think it's I think it's you you can give the nitrogen >> backwards >> loading credit to a lot less than 20,000 square foot >> more than it doesn't give credit from any lot as I understand it. >> Let me review it again. I'm sorry. >> I can't give credit to a lot more than
20,000 square feet. >> So, if you have a a 20,000 square foot >> You're right. I had it backwards. residential lot wishing to aggregate flows from nitrogen credit land shall be less than 20,000 square feet. >> And and to be clear, >> I read that backwards in my mind, >> but to be to be clear, you're not
transferring property. You're transferring this entity called a nitrogen loading credit. That's a thing we have never dealt with before. >> Correct. Um, and so one question I have is why why wouldn't these property owners just
transfer 676 feet of property by the deed from one property to another for a dollar or whatever and then then they'd both be 20,000 square feet. Why wouldn't they go that way instead of taking this novel approach to it? >> It's less expensive. You don't have to get
>> Well, I'm asking Thad. These lots were created in 1948. They're basically 20,000 square foot lots in a 40,000 foot zoning district. So to change the lot line would not only require land court planning board, it would also require
zoning board of appeals because one lot would be made more nonconforming with the change while the other lots becoming more conforming. um that would be a variance under the zoning board which is very difficult
once the buildings are constructed. I I don't even know if a land swap could be possible then. So it's a subdividing it would take away the buildability of the lots. Say say that again.
>> Subdividing it changing the lot line would change that that protection. >> Right. So you're not saying it's impossible. You're saying it's very difficult. That's the reason I guess to put it >> very very difficult. Well, okay. Other other questions or comments from the
board with aggregation the the donor property has to be in the same watershed. So when you go back to the mass estuaries program and they show all those little different slivers, the
two properties have to be in the same watershed. How many waterersheds are there in Chadam then? >> Oh, there were dozens. >> Dozen. I mean, it was very split up throughout Pond and you had the whole stage harbor complex, but then that was
broken down into subwater sheds. >> All right. >> So, it's I know that there's a fear that this could set a dangerous precedent. I don't I don't have the same fear of that as >> theoretically if you lived in say on
Harding's Beach area or something you wanted to build a short-term rental and you had an an 18,000 square foot property you could go up and down the street asking people if they'll donate a couple thousand square feet of of credits to you
>> you could you could you could sell it person could sell you could put an ad in the chronicle Right. >> I mean, this could create a a a whole new way of of approaching. >> All right. So, I mean, >> but the donor lot would still have to
meet their nitrogen loading. And if they had a 22,000 square foot lot with three bedrooms on it already, they couldn't donate, right? >> Unless, >> but if they had a 26,000 foot lot, they'd be okay. >> Yeah. Unless they had four bedrooms on that 26,000 square foot lot and then
they >> and I don't know. >> Is anybody else doing this? >> Not to this level. Well, in a moment we'll get to Judy has some perspective there. But um I would say for me it's it's like opening Pandora's box. We don't really know where it's going to go and what it amounts to. It's novel. We
haven't dealt with it. And I would say that it's it's not the difference between building and not building. It's not the difference between building a three-bedroom home or not. It's only about the short-term rental on the three bedroom threebedroom home in the smaller
lot. So to me, that's a very minor thing to do all this. So, but let Thad finish what he has to say and then I think Judy has a something to say from her perspective. I hope and and I can say that we had to come for the variance anyhow. We're looking at this as
let's at least crack open Pandora's box a little or or see about opening it. Um again I I don't think that there are a lot of eligible properties for for this scenario. We don't know. >> I don't know. >> Okay. Uh Judy, do you have anything to add? Um
>> I mean I think that we've kind of touched on all of my concerns. I think you had said in the past it appi you thought it was applied to >> well >> zone two or area two >> originally I when we made the um the regulation we were referring to as zone
two of a public water supply but title five has changed since then now they they have expanded the definition of a nitrogen sensitive area and um that has explained that to you that the the different watershed areas um pretty much
most of Chadam is in um one of these nitrogen sensitive areas now under title five. So, but my concern is has certainly been that this has never been done before and I'm just concerned that um we are opening a way for other people
to get around that rule about short-term rentals. It seems like a um a minor like for for them to do all this just to get it be allowed to sell this house with the possibility of it being used as a short-term rental um when it can be
built as a three-bedroom >> and I'm afraid you're setting a precedent. >> That would be my concern. If we do this, if we allow 674, then next year some of you want >> 25,500.
Uh, and and you know, I I'm just not in favor of of approving the transfer just for the purpose of another. >> I basically agree with with with Dick. >> I agree with that, too. >> But let me ask Judy a procedural
question. is is this proposal from that if we didn't okay the um >> nitrogen loading credit part is this still an application for the three-bedroom house with IIA technology for each lot >> yes >> absolutely yes >> so we would okay so that that would
still be granted today with what we have >> and we would have to act in each one separately so on 16 we would basically be denying the nitrogen credit to 170 Um and then going ahead and approving
the three-bedroom dwelling with the um the nitrogen removal system as proposed >> makes it easier. We can request withdrawal of the nitrogen moing credit. >> I think that allows you to come back more easily with a similar request if you for some reason were to do
>> and if we deny it. That's true. Yeah. >> Yeah. So it's >> I would rather request a withdrawal without prejudice. >> Okay. >> All right. in case we find that Pandora's box is smaller than >> All right. Um, now any input from the public?
>> Yes. Oops. Sorry. >> My name is Ed Actton. I'm the owner of the property and the builder. And um I just want >> both both properties. >> Both properties. Yes. Um, I just I I know there's neighbors here of mine that will be next door to one of the
properties. I just want I have no intention of maintaining the property or keeping the property as a as a short-term rental. My plan is to uh build one house at a time and and sell the houses. Um, of course I I can't uh
uh determine what happens in the future, but they they will be, you know, expensive houses and I don't imagine they'll ever be used as a short-term rental. Just wanted to give you that information. >> I can imagine it because I see many many >> Yeah.
>> lovely. >> I don't know how they would make the economics work. >> I know. But >> it's easy. >> People do it >> really. >> It's easy. every day we have >> because I imagine these houses of them >> will sell you know in the5 to6 million range. So >> but anything's possible.
>> It is true that it seems >> um other questions from the public. >> Yep. >> So we can hear you. Ed explained all the name >> I'm sorry Julia Serno >> Ed explained all the uh functions of
this particular what would we call it >> microphone >> application >> the what he's proposing in terms of the um oh I'm sorry in
nitrogen loading and all of that kind of thing that I have no problem with whatsoever. But you brought up the other part about the short-term rentals. That's the only part that I'm concerned about. But I don't think it it has
anything to do with the health department. I think it has to do with the regulations that the town has. And I don't know how it all goes, but I did read read it and there seemed to be four different or five different um proposals for homes and whether they
can or cannot be um utilized as a short-term rental in a particular neighborhood. And our neighborhood is seems to be one of those areas where that shouldn't occur. Uh from what I
understood reading that particular there there may be some zoning um >> proposals on the table, but the board of health has a short-term rental regulation. So, if you have a short-term rental, you have to register it with the health department. Um and then we review
the application and the floor plans and there's certain um safety uh issues that they have to you know fire fire extinguishers and smoke detectors etc. So we do we are involved but right now there's no restriction on where they can
be in town. They can be anywhere in Chadam. >> That's was not in the business district. It sounded like they you could have short-term rentals but not in a residential area from what I was reading. But >> I'm not sure what you were reading. It
may be something that's going through um some zoning or planning. I that's not >> but but the health department and the board of health wrote the short-term rental regulation that's in effect now came into effect a couple years ago. >> Okay. The houses are going to be
gorgeous and there's not going to be any problem and I'm sure anything that the engineer has suggested is probably going to be >> perfect. So I'm not concerned in terms of all of that. It's just the other part. But one one of our criteria, there
were a bunch of them with the short-term rental regulation was quality of life in the neighborhood. Crowds, cars, parking, um >> that is my concern. >> People coming and going >> that was a part of it. So >> So it sounds like the discussion about short-term rental for these two properties is moot. Makes no sense since
it's very unlikely that anybody would want these short-term rentals. >> But right now, more than 20% of the properties of the homes in Chattam are short-term rentals. And the great majority of those are in residential areas and they're now being rented from
>> March through January. Uh and it's really changing the quality of life in the town for for for residents. >> That is my concern. >> So that is the concern of the board of health. >> We have a neighborhood association. We
have a neighborhood beach and short-term rentals. We've already seen one uh particular episode where a short-term rental uh use the beach very differently than the people who uh live there.
>> Yep. >> And so that's was more my concern. >> Okay. Thank Thank you very much. Uh any other input from the public? >> All right. Does somebody want to put forward a motion with uh
>> So TAT T that is withdrawing the 160 Woodland Way application. True. >> No, there's just the application for nitrogen loading credit. Okay. >> That would go to the smaller lot. >> Okay. >> So now he's just asking for IIA
technology to upgrade to a three-bedroom for each lot. and the smaller lot under 20,000 by our previous rules is eligible for three bedrooms with IIA technology. >> So, I'll I'll move that we approve the
uh variance for the uh smaller lot with the u provision that the short-term rental exclusion >> be placed on the on the >> I think we're actually on the larger lot. We're on one.
>> I'll move that we larger lot with IIA uh technology with the uh conditions that you've mentioned. >> Shouldn't we shouldn't the motion reference the address because I'm >> 160 Woodland Way. >> So, we have to do them separately. >> Should I do them?
>> Yeah. Okay. So, we're on 160 Woodland Way. This is the 21,000 foot lot. >> Um and there's no nitrogen loading credit going anywhere there. So, it's just a it's just a straightforward IIA technology and an extra bedroom.
>> Okay. And >> that Judy has to read, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Um, make sure I'm on the right one here. Yeah. >> Um, then they're both going to have the same conditions. The applicant should
restrict the property to a maximum of three bedrooms. Typo there. and record this restriction on the deed at the Barnstable County Registry of Deeds. The applicant shall submit a copy of the executed deed restriction to the health division. The applicant shall
sign a covenant with the board agreeing to comply at such time as the town of Chadam through its board of health and board of water and sewer commissioners directing the connection of this property to the municipal sewer when it becomes available. Applicant must submit to the board of health the unexecute.
No, cross that out. That was for the deed restriction part. So we don't need that. Throughout the life of the septic system, there shall it shall be under an operation and maintenance agreement. And that on&m agreement shall be for at least one year and maybe with any mass certified
operator of the appropriate grade. FO from the system shall be monitored at least twice a year for the first two years, preferably May and October. shall be trusted in accordance with mass DP standard conditions for secondary treatment unit certified for general use. Um in addition, a lab test of the
F1 for total nitrogen to meet the performance standard of 19 milligrams per liter shall be collected and analyzed. Water meter readings are to be provided with a semiannual report. If any of the field tests or lab tests fail, follow-up tests shall be conducted by a certified lab. After the required
two years applicant can be made for the board or their agent for review and possible modifications of the monitoring. The applicant shall agree to apply a minimum of 6 in of compacted top soil to all disturbed areas of the property. The engineer shall submit an engineered asbuilt plan including
asbuilt elevations with a written certification that the system shall be under shall be installed in accordance with the approved plan. No, no alteration to the floor plan of the dwelling or the site plan will be allowed without further review. And this variance is granted pursuant to the town
of Chadam's board of subservice, excuse me, nitrogen loading regulations. I need to change that. It's valid from one year from the date of the board of health approval. A permit must be issued and work commenced during that one year period. >> What is the condition regarding the
water meter measurements? You're you're only allowed so much water for these systems. >> No, they just the the county likes to see how much usage it's getting so that when they um when they look at the data and when they're compiling their data, I'll be perfectly honest with you. I don't
>> variance request. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's been in there right along. I'm not sure we always get that information, but it is in there. So, >> okay. So, do we have a motion? Uh John? >> Yes. I will so move. Can a second?
>> You did it first. >> What? >> Sorry. Richard Edwards did the first motion. >> Yeah. I I move that we approve this. >> Oh, you you did it. >> These conditions >> and then do the second one. >> John seconded. >> John second. Okay. >> Okay. >> We're all confused.
>> We can take a vote on approving a variance for >> 160 >> 160 Woodland Way. >> Right. >> Um and uh when I call your name, >> uh >> do your best now. Actually, >> could you also add in there the withdrawal without prejudice?
>> Yeah. >> Oh. >> Um, >> yes. The Okay. >> Yeah. We'll add that the short-term rental issue was withdrawn without prejudice. Nitrogen loading. >> The nitrogen loading credit request. >> Okay. Yeah, that's right. Nitrogen loading >> is request
>> removed. It's deleted. >> Yeah, I think Diane got that. >> Okay. >> But that should be part of the Do you accept that as part of the >> Good. >> Yeah. Right. Okay, so we can take a vote now. Uh, Carol Boyce, >> yes. >> John Beckley, >> yes. >> Dick Edwards,
>> yes. >> Joanne Kale, >> yes. >> Noble Hansen, yes. >> Okay, so that's 160 Woodland Way. And now we have um >> 170 Woodland Way. This is the small lot
and it will retain a no short-term rental restriction. Mhm. >> Um and the request for the nitrogen loading credit will be removed. And can I get a motion for that? >> I'll move that we approve of the
variance for 170 with way uh with the conditions as stipulated >> and a second. >> Second. >> Do a second. Okay. And then we can take uh a vote. >> We need the conditions.
>> Oh them all again. Is it going to just add going to add the uh >> Yeah. So, it's the same conditions that I just read. And then on number one, the applicant should restrict the property to a maximum of three bedrooms and record this on the reg restriction of the registry of deeds. Um and it shall
include that the property will not be allowed to be used for as a short-term rental. >> And then the rest of the um requirements are are the same. >> Okay. >> All right. will take yes withdrawal and
then and that the uh request for the uh nitrogen loading credit transfer is withdrawn. >> Yes. >> Without prejudice without prejudice. >> Carol Boyce, >> yes. >> Uh John Beckley, >> yes. >> Nick Edwards, >> yes. >> Joanne Kale, >> Noble Hansen, yes.
>> Okay, I think we're settled there so much. And if I could just add two more little things. Like I said, chemistry is messy. The day after cleaning day, your your nitrogen numbers spike in these systems because all the cleaners kill
all the bacteria, which means the denitrification can't occur. And those water meter readings, if you get the widow or widowerower that's using very minimal water, their nitrogen numbers are going to be high, high concentration, low use. So the actual
amount of nitrogen going through the system is minimal, but the concentrations are high. There's the old saying, dilution is the solution >> to pollution. >> Pollution >> is what? >> Dilution's the solution to pollution.
>> I would rather have the bucket full of 50s than the teacup full of 100s. >> Well, I take I mean that's a good real life example of variation. in performance based upon what's going
on. My concern was when they when they test one system against another system, all those standards should be the same and then they could see the relative performance
one against the other in those controlled situations. And and it's those conditions that make me wonder whether some of the some of the systems are should not be approved.
>> But again, the problem is practice. >> But you can't test >> that all that all becomes part of the average though. It all washes out the variability in use. You can't, you know, that's the big picture. But I'm talking
about if you're going to invest as a public health agency in approving certain IA systems, those decisions should be based upon objective standardized data where the
various choices are comped against. >> I think the problem is is that that data doesn't really exist. I mean they're the the data that they're looking at is is Chadam's data which is so many variables um and they're comparing >> I thought they had systems in the ground
>> though that data is definitely more standardized and but you have to you have to have um the companies they submit an application to put a system in to the test center it goes in the ground and they monitor the influent and the alphin and how much all of that is very
standardized but the data that they presented to you is the data different >> that's the data that how our systems are actually working >> right >> and we don't have influent data and um >> and when they do the testing they're
using a a standard set of criteria flow in how often you know you know how many days it can go without any flow but then in the real world everything's different there's hundreds of different combinations of variables. And some
systems may work fine with this >> house that's only occupied 3 months a year, you know, and not work well with a house that has a more people 12 months a year. It's just >> possibly difficult.
>> No, because there's it's dilution. >> So again, the big difference is going to be long showers, >> right? Somebody who puts a lot of water into the system, their numbers are going to come out great. Somebody is very frugal with their water and their numbers are going to come out poor.
>> Um, what IA systems are currently on the Cadam list to that can be used. >> Every anything that's been approved by the state >> are there numerous >> or there's a there's a long list of long list that were approved for general use. um some for nitrogen removal, some for
just other other items. But um and those of that list, the fast and the single air are really the the most cost effective. Um and that's why they're being used the most. Um but since this new nitrogen sensitive area by the state
came out, they've been looking at and creating a best available technology list. And um and I was actually working with the county on a committee to look at the different types of systems um and try and figure out how we could make
recommendations for that list. And to be perfectly honest with you, the the data is the data set is so hard to compile that >> you don't have confidence. >> We didn't get too far. Um and these were these were big brain people people much
smarter than me um working on this but the state did come out with these two systems that they feel confident in and then the other ones that referred to that are used in for provisional and piloting use which means that the data
is more um they're only they're only allowing so many to be them to be approved across the state and then they're looking at that data to see if they can move it into the best available technology list, but right now they only have these two systems
>> and and there are revisions that happen to these systems. When we first started all of this back in the late 90s and we're putting in Microast, it's a different system today that we would put in. You can't put an old Micro Fast in because it no longer meets the company
standard. >> All right. >> So, we do have systems that are probably under >> um just not as good as some of the newer systems. Dan, do you use the microfast system yourself in for your clients? Some clients? >> Well, as of now, we've stopped.
>> You stopped. >> We're now This is our first systems using the star and I really like those numbers. I've listened to the board of health who has said, "Hey, you're you're hesitant on your support of the microfing as well as it should." But what I say,
so it begs the question. I think we've talked about it before, but it and Judy's working on it, but coming up with a town shorter list, it doesn't sound like the money is so far away if you think of the whole project. Um, why we couldn't have a narrow list of the ones we know work really well,
>> relative, >> but that would be a >> Well, and your reg allude to you don't have to create the list. The D has it. >> Yeah, that's the list. >> So, this is these two are on the D's list. Those are the two that are approved for general use. There are
different systems approved for piloting and provisional. So this is the mass state DP has a list of just these two well-working systems and the and as a town we have a big long list of all sorts of things including fast. >> Well, your list actually goes back to
the D, the full list of all approved. >> Well, so I my my question is why we should have an agenda item meeting where agenda item request. have a meeting where we don't we maybe we could narrow it down to these two that work better >> and I would suggest for the future back
to the D list instead of pointing to the general IIA list. Is that possible Judy? >> It is possible and I actually asked some of the other health agents whether they were doing that and um basically they said no at this point. Um, I think because everybody is still kind of
wrapping their heads around this new these new technologies and um, you know, the watershed permits and whether they actually we actually need to be putting these systems in at all. So, >> but the $6,000 difference in cost when you look at the whole project of the
whole IA thing installing it and in the whole house project is not that much. with the cost of construction now, it's not much and it's more than a $6,000 difference because you do have extra tanks and special tanks and things. So >> anyway, okay. So that that's a good
something to discuss in the future. I I like that idea, but and Okay, so we're all set there. Thank you very much. >> When you see me again, I won't be coming back with Micro Fest. So >> we'll ask we'll ask you to come in a coat and tie next time like at the town meeting. >> Thank you, Fed. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. we get involved in all IIA system installations like in new new construction uh if it's not required for some reason. I mean if >> if um I mean 99% of them are because
they want to build a fourbedroom house on a 30,000 square foot lot and so those would all come to you. the most. >> Yeah. >> Occasionally someone will put one in where they're not required to by our regulations because but they just want to and I don't usually send them to you,
but I do require all the same conditions. >> Okay. Okay. Then other public comments from the public and any future agenda items request. I know we have Milh Hill followup for the further discussions on the list. Probably a quick transfer
station followup with a letter followup would be good. >> Oh yeah. IA system sometimes. I think that's and um the airport is always being kicked around. That's something that we probably should bring up again. >> Any any other agenda item? >> We got a an email about the airport yesterday.
>> Yeah, for discussion when it's on the agenda. >> Yeah, >> it's for discussion when it's on the agenda, but that'd be a reason to bring it up. >> U Okay, we have minutes from October 6th. Anybody have revisions or changes? I'll make a motion we adopt the draft
minutes from October 6, 2025. >> Okay, we can take a a vote. Uh, Carol Boyce, >> yes. Beckley. >> Nick Edwards, yes. >> Joanne Kale, Noble Hansen, yes. And then uh a motion to adjurnn. What? >> I didn't hear who second it.
>> Oh, she >> the one with no voice. >> I move we adjourn. >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh, Carol Boyce. >> Yes. We can't hear you. K. Okay. Yes. >> Dick Edwards. >> Yes. >> Joan Kale. Yes.
>> Hansson. Yes. Okay. We are adjourned.