Uh, welcome to the board of health meeting of October 6, 2025. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing and any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording this meeting, please
notify the chairman. Presumed to Governor Healey's March 29th, 2020 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain CO 19 measures adopted during the state state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting
law until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the CHA Chattam Board of Health is being conducted in person and via remote participation effort. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. Reminder that
persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508-9454410 conference ID 93375145 pound or they may join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the posted agenda. While this is
a live broadcast simal cast on Chad Cadam TV channel 8 and 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide real time access. We will post a record of this meeting in the town's website as soon as possible. Um, now I'll turn the meeting over to our chairman, Dr. Noble Hansen.
Uh, thank you. It shall be the policy of this board to conduct its meetings under the open meetings law so as to encourage public participation whenever time permits and as part of agenda item discussions. So, we have three items on the agenda today. But first, let's
establish a quorum. And when I call your name, please say present. Carol Joyce. Carol Boyce. Boyce. The other one's not. I've done that before. Carol Joyce. Carol Joyce isn't here yet. Carol Boyce.
I'm here. You're here. John Beckley, present. Ron Browman, here. Dick Edwards, present. Noble Hansen, I'm here. And we have our two uh alternates. Ron Weiser present and Joanne Calb here. Okay. So, uh we have a quorum. Uh first,
uh I want to uh welcome Andrew Grover, Andy Grover, who's a new member of the health department. Um a good addition. So, uh should be great. Thank you very much. I'm excited to be part of the team and um yeah, I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. Well, you have a great leader here and
uh we're happy to have have him. he was able to hit the ground running and he's been already a great a great uh component of our team. So, nice. All right. Um so, first we're going to continue with our show cause hearings
for the short-term rental uh violations of non-compliant registrations and we have three different uh properties. We'll take one at a time and Judy will sort of present the case and uh how the situation stands at this time. The first
one is uh Thomas and Kathleen Trudeau, 102 Bay View Road. And um Judy, you want to keep get us up to date on that? So, I'm I'm assuming there's no one here um there's no one in the audience and I
don't see one anyone online to represent themselves on this. Um Karen, our short-term rental um inspector, and she was not able to be here this afternoon, but um she she did all the, you know,
the work to follow up on these three. Um she originally sent out five letters and two of them she did get them registered. So Teresa um Wall is the owner of 322 Old Harbor Road. She was sent a uh two
letters um May and August of 2024. Um a third letter certified. I think this is 2025. Oh, no, it's 2024. And then a fourth letter in July of 2025.
Um we don't think they received any of these letters. Um we did post one on the property about this hearing last week. Um, so we're kind of I think we're kind of concerned they've never received anything. Um,
is this all of them or or just No, just I'm just talking about the first one. Terresa Wall. Teresa. First one on the list. Theresa Wall. Okay. Right. Um, so Karen was suggesting perhaps we continue this one for one more month because um we'd like to try
again. We did post it on the house. She said the she drove by it must have been today and she says the letter is gone now. So we're hoping maybe they'll contact us. We'd like to just give them a little more time because we can't even if we start sending them finding notices, we don't even know they're
going to get them. So um and this one is has been listed Karen says is listed on uh Airbnb. It's on Airbnb, right? And the the thing we can also perhaps use the police department to try and get more information about current address and
such. So we know if the property is occupied. It's it's a active listing on area. No. Is somebody in the property at this time? Is there an automobile in front of the house? We I mean I when we were there there was nobody there. There's no It's not a No
one's living there year round. What's the mailing address that we're sending the notices to? It's not the property to rent the property. It's whatever they have in the assessor's listing. Okay. So, so we're following by the book the official right
address for all town related they received their tax bills. Yes. Everything else. I don't know. It's just it's it's strange. Um they're not getting these. I mean they're they could be getting them and ignoring
them, too. Yes. Well, this is this is registered mail, I think. Certified. So, they have to sign it when they get it. So, you would know if they received it. Yeah. It was not delivered. Um but she actually she said that the the the all the other letters came back and the um
the one about the hearing was forwarded, but we haven't heard anything. We don't we don't know. Okay. So the first and the second letter were mailed US mail and they came back in the mail as undeliverable, right? And then the third letter as
well. And then the fourth letter, the third letter was the certified one. Nobody nobody signed for that. So it came back and then the fourth letter is the one about the hearing and that was it says it was forwarded. I I don't know if it
we do have an address on that. So it sounds an address Chestnut Street, Boston. Yeah, that's where it was originally sent, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's the address we have for her. But the mail is usually pretty good. So
if you mail something and it comes back, it was undeliverable for whatever reason. So that must be a bad address. Bad address. So I don't She just She recommends that we give another month to try
meaning Karen. I'm sorry. Karen, who's the to to dig a little deeper into this one, I have a question about the property on the assessor's database. It's they're assessing it as a four room, twobedroom,
two bath. Mhm. But in their listing, it's a threebedroom and the third bedroom is in the basement, a finished basement. Right. Um that those are things that once we get it registered we would sus
out, you know, we would Could that be why they're avoiding us? I don't know. I mean, it could be, but that's that at this point, we're just trying to get them registered so we can have them fill out the application, show us what they have, and we can see the
listing and and tell them not a legal bedroom or it is. And a summon would get attention. a summons. I mean, a notice of penalty might get attention. I mean, if the four if the fourth letter I buy
the idea that the first three if they came back, that tells me the US Postal Service could not deliver them. Well, that tells me credibly that there's probably a problem there. However, the fourth letter in July
2025 was put on the building and and and was picked up by someone. Well, we just posted it on the building last week. Okay. But but the July there was also a certified letter that went out
and about the hearing there to sign it accepted. All right. And that one that one says it was forwarded. So I just don't know where it was forwarded to. I guess we give them more. Yeah, I mean there's lots of questions. I I would just say Karen has worked very hard at this and she's doing it all different ways and if if her if her
feeling is to delay this some and give her more time that I would I would tend to go along with that. Okay. All right. No, yes. I'm sorry to we're bombarding you with so many questions today, but the addresses are coming off from
the assessor's office. Are they paying their taxes? I I didn't ask. I can find out. I'm just I'm just wondering if there's a trust involved with this that are perhaps just paying their taxes. Yeah, sometimes nobody knows nobody knows where the
and this is the kind of thing I think Karen would know about. Maybe she investigates. We don't we don't really know all the different things she's doing, but I know she voluntarily goes on Airbnb and and and tries to track things down. And yeah, I I mean I would just ask her if they're paying their taxes or if they're
being paid by a trust and maybe They're being paid by a trust. We contact the trust. Yep. Or why not go on the Airbnb like you want to rent the property? That's a great idea.
Do an undercover an undercover deal. Okay, I'll I'll do that. I volunteer. Yeah. Um, how does Airbnb work? You have to email back. Is there You usually have to sign up. You have to put in your dates and kind of sign up and
rest. And then the eventually the owner contacts you, but it's I'm not sure if you have to put money down right away or I don't know. That seems a little When did they notice that the letter that was on the door wasn't there anymore?
She just told me that today. I'm trying to remember what day. It was early last week. We went out, the two of us, and posted them. Um, so fairly recently then. Yeah. So it's within a week. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, usually if someone stayed there this weekend, they would have
maybe had a cleaner in and somebody would have because I know one of the other ones we posted in the cleaner was there when we posted it. So, so I So, do we have to do we need to vote on what to do or would you we can just have a discussion? Yeah. No, you should vote, I think, to
continue it to um a November hearing. Okay. All right. So maybe we can get a a motion to continue uh Terresa Wall uh to another meeting. Okay. So move second. Second.
Second. And then um any input from the public? You guys are pretty creative. Why are we out of out of order? No, you're great. Oh. All right.
We We try to get the public involved. Maybe. We got a vote. We got a vote. And then we'll take a vote. Um Carol Boyce, yes. Uh John Beckley, yes. Ron Bman, yes. Dick Edwards, yes. Noble Hansen, yes. Okay. Okay. So, uh takes care of
Lisa Wall will be continued. And then the next on the list, Judy, is Herder Thomas or Thomas Herder and Caitlyn Bernard. Yep. Um and that's uh 89 George Wright Road.
We have been in touch with um similar situation. The letters weren't being delivered. Um but this is the one that we posted last weekend. The cleaners were there. This is a Delmare property and Karen has been in touch with Delmare who said that they would they would get
in touch with the owner and have them register it. It hasn't happened yet. It's been a few weeks now. So, um I think this one's pretty straightforward. Um I don't know who someone's ignoring us for some reason on this one. I I think
Do you know could can Karen get a a phone number of the uh of uh the owners of the property from Delmare? Can they give that information out? They can if they if they want to. Yeah. Um, I'm not sure whether
um I think she tried calling the third one. I I'm not sure about this one whether she had a number um for them or not. So, but the fourth letter was mailed July 8th, 2025 and it did not come back as
undeliverable. Uh yeah. Yeah, that one. Yeah, those because those were all sent regular mail as well. So they those letters didn't they came they went out regular mail. So um and how long ago was Delmare contacted?
Do you know she's been speaking with them? You know as of last week she had emailed them. And what about July uh 24? That letter never came back either. That was they they sent out certified and regular
mail. I don't I don't I don't think those came back. The third letter was not delivered. That's what she said. And the the hearing letter was not delivered. Those were both certified, but the regular mail ones, I don't think came back. And
Delmare knows about it. She's they're not they weren't officially notified, but she's spoken to them. So, it's one of their listings. And is this this is another one that is advertised as a four bedroomedroom
sleeps 10 and the town has it assessed as a six room threebedroom two bath house. Well, again, those are things that once we bedroom house, those are things we look into once we get them registered. Exactly. The kind of thing that the short-term regulations,
that's the whole point of this. We're not addressing that at this point until we get them registered and then we can um look at the listings themselves and discuss how they're being used. The responsibility to comply with a short-term rental is up to the the
property, not the rental agency. But the rental agency, it depends. Some rental agencies take care of it for their for their clients. Others require them to do it. So, it depends. You think they'd have some responsibility. Yeah.
U So, what what what this is a little different than the last one because there has been contact with the rental agency that's in contact with them. So, something should happen. So, is there a reason to start fines or or what does Karen want to do? On these two, she feels we should start
finding them. I agree. Oh, she this. So, Chief, so the next two. Yeah. 89 George Ryder Road. Let's do an assessment. Let's do a penalty. Yep. I'm very comfortable with that.
So, be begin the fines as the regulations. That's what I would say today. And then that would be as of today or tomorrow. it winds up being it'll it'll probably be um she'll probably get the letters out sometime this week and she'll find for like three
or four days. And how will she send those letters out? By US mail or on the on the property? That's what we've been doing. But I think we'll post them as well. I think last time we we posted, you know, when when I years ago when I
worked in public health, we our attorneys would tell us that if you send it US mail and it does not come back, there's a presumption of delivery, right? And then if you post it in addition, y
I think any judge would say, well, my gosh, I mean, that's more than an adequate after the last time we we decide we're going to post everything on the property. So, we'll send it regular mail and post it. Right. Okay.
Now, in this one, the address 89 George Ryder Road is also the address of the owners. The letter was sent in. It was sent to 89 George Ryder Road. Yeah. I mean, that's probably the assessor says the owners.
I mean, we can do we can do it a copy to them. They're not the owners. They're not the legal, you know, we can CC them on it, which I think would help, actually. Yeah. I mean, if if the address we have is a rental cottage, then that may be
why we're not getting the mail delivered. I know. She did tell me that the police did say once we started the um the finding of these properties, they would get they would do a a more um a more thorough
search and find out who the owners are and where they are. They don't want to do it until we get to the finding stage. So, all right. Great. Well, I think also if we start fines, it will um encourage the rental agencies to um you know, act in the benefit of their
clients and and inform them and get things moving. Okay. So, um can I get a motion to uh begin fines on uh 89 George Ryder Road? So, move
second. That's $300 a day. 200 200 200 Oh, it's 200 today beginning tomorrow. I'm sorry. There was John first. Um, anyone second it? And then any input from the public on um
89 George Ryder Road? Okay, we I'll take a a vote and say yes when I call your name. Mrs. Boyce, yes. John Beckley? Yes. Ron Bowman? Yes. Dick Edwards. I'll say yes for him.
Yeah. And Noble Hansen. Yes. Okay. So that the fines will begin per Karen's recommendations on 89 George Ryder Road. All right. So the last one you have the last is 102 Bay View.
And um this one I think they've received. Um one of them was returned, but the rest of them were all received. And she also emailed Pineacres and she emailed the owners. So they seem
to really be ignoring us. Yes. This one. Could we I Yeah. What has past practice been? Has it been that Karen at the end of the week would
process like seven charges? I mean, or would she just do one day and then wait? No, she's been doing like a bunch at a time like like five days in a row. Three to five days. Let's do that. I would say do that in this case. Then kind of waiting to see if any
response. Yes. And then do another batch the following week. Okay. So, I would encourage that in this case, but technically the fines could continue as long as it's as it's publicly listed. I guess even if you could just you could just do every day, right? But that that what she's doing
now sounds reasonable. Yeah. And then, you know, we have the option to uh tailor the fines based on any specific or unusual circumstances in each case later on. Yes. To adjust. Yes. Um Okay.
And I think it also encourages Pine Acres to act on behalf of their uh their clients to to let them know that this is they're a good company. I would think they'd be right on that good about this, but I don't know. So would you have a Okay. So we that's uh Do you want to vote on that one?
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so when I call your name, say uh how you vote. Uh, did we pass a motion on this? Oh, yeah. I'll I'll I'll make a motion that we uh that we proceed with the penalty assessments.
I'll second. Okay. And public input on um um 102 Bay View Road. Okay. And then we can take a vote. Uh Carol Boyce, yes. John Beckley, yes. Ron Bman,
yes. Dick Edwards, yes. And Noble Hansen, yes. Okay. So, that fines will begin going out. That's tomorrow on um Can I ask you one one quick question, Noble, before you move on? So, of the people that we've encountered
so far who've been very delinquent, do we have any examples of people willfully ignoring the letter as opposed to miscommunication? Well, this last one, it seems like they've they've received the letters and they have not been okay responding. I'm
not sure if they don't really understand or um but that's I I like the idea of going to Pineacres and just saying you really need to tell these people what's going on because they're about to incur a boatload of I I think in a in a previous uh grouping
that Karen had talked directly to the owners directly. Yeah. And then they had not complied. Then when the fines built up they did they did come. You're not going to find any more evidence of that. a couple of them actually.
Yeah. I just wondered if it was just all miscommunication. So, thanks for that information. Yeah. Okay. So, um next on the uh agenda is uh discuss a continuation discussion review
of uh a bedroom definition regulation. We had talked before about it being a policy, but on the advice of attorney, it would be a regulation, which means once we approve a final form of the of
the of the wording, then we will have a public hearing and uh go over it again and then maybe even make some changes at that point and then codify it. Uh in included in your packet is Judy's um current board of health regulation determination of bedroom count and
residential dwellings. At our last meeting, we had several different things that we threw out that should be changed or added. And Judy can go over the regulation and tell us what parts of this are new from. Yeah, I apologize. I didn't do tracking.
That was on my a mistake on my part. So that you can't see where I made the changes, but um based on my notes from the last meeting under um under bedroom under definitions under bedroom um bullet number three has a door opening.
Um I changed it. It has a door opening of less than 72 in. And then I added another bullet. Or if 72 inches or greater and is adjacent to or includes an all suite bath, full bathroom, sink, tub, shower. I thought that clarified
what your concerns were on that one. I think Carol, you had Does that make sense? Yeah. Um and then loss was limited access um under atypical bedrooms. I didn't change anything there, but I think it's pretty
much covered under under the whole house count. Um, I did add some language in there. Um, uh, if we can just go back to the top, I'm sorry, under detached structures. I
did cross out shower because you you felt that that was not necessary, right? Um, and then going to whole house count, I I beefed that up quite a bit. So, a lot of that is new. Um, I don't know if you've had a chance to read
through it. Um, um, I added uh, a room has a distinctive physical borders. A room most often has a distinct domestic function. Um, so this is just for the whole house count. So this is if we're using the total number of rooms divided by two and how
we would count the rooms because we had some discussion about um you know a big open space you know with a kitchen the great room design. So um and this is basically right out of that Plymouth or Hingham document. Now
question I know we have the two methodologies calculate where does it say that which methodology would be used? So at the bottom of that whole house room it says the final bedroom count
shall be the greater of the number of rooms meeting the physical criteria of a be of a bedroom section 2 through four or the number determined by total room count methodology. So it's the greater of the two. Okay.
So they're calling it two rooms, but we there's, you know, 12 total rooms divided by two. Okay. So this this puts it the rest then, right? I think so. I I any of this seems confusing, you know,
please let me know. I've just been right. So, if if if it's a three-bedroom house, but the number of rooms by by this definition says it's a five-bedroom house, then it wouldn't comply with a three-bedroom septic. Okay, that that's I think that's the point. Okay.
Um and then the it it addresses the great room, a small dividing wall, half wall, pillars, built-in cabinetry. Yep. Protruses into the space. I make you can then it can be considered two two rooms
and that's a little bit suggestive suggestive subjective depending on how we look at at that gives us some discretion to okay you know as is the atypical bedroom classifications where you say loft was
limited access or bonus rooms that's a little subjective as well but we often do see those sometimes they're open railings open into a mud room, you know, no bathroom. Yeah, you you have to kind of use your
best judgment, I think. And Right. Um I think the whole room count helps too when with having that in there. All right. I'm a little and the loft. Um yeah,
there's some definition of of what makes it private. and was it um regardless of its openness to the floor to the room below. So you can have a second floor room and and if it's completely open with a rail to the to
the floor below, but there's a sort of a private narrow staircase and it's has some privacy that way it can be considered a bedroom which is different than I think what we would do for and that that is under the whole room count. So you would count it as a separate room for some I'm not sure I
actually love this section with the loft thing. That's right. That's a that that is that's a bit that's a a room quote room. It's a room. Um and I they must have had that in there for some reason. Like they're saying that they wouldn't count it as a separate room if it opened right
into a bedroom. So it would almost like if you had a suite. Say that again. If you had this is a a loft access accessed by a stairwell um spiral staircase which must be 5 ft or
wider in a separate room regardless of its openness to the room below unless the loft is only accessible through a bedroom. So they're saying if it was only accessible through a bedroom it wouldn't be counted as a separate room if it's an open
spiral staircase loft room. You know what I mean? It gets a little I don't know how often you're going to see something like that, but we could strike that out. I don't think it really I I think it's okay that I I've actually seen that a couple of times where somebody's created a loft above the
bedroom for a husband or wife to have a desk area up there. And I'd hate to have that counted as a room. I mean, if it's in if it's open to below, I can Yeah, but it's open to a bedroom. So, it's not exactly like it's two bedrooms, right? So, yeah, we can we can leave it. I don't
think it's something that's going to, you know, come up a lot. Um, yeah. So, this is Judy's sort of final, um, document from our previous discussions. Uh, Dick, I'm sorry. With with the loft, if the
stairs going up to the loft are less than five feet wide, it is about it is an an extra room. Extra room. I I misstate and said bedroom. It be can be a room. It It is It is another room. Yeah. And if it has a spiral staircase
that's five feet wide, I I don't know if I've ever seen such a thing. I don't know the spiral stair that comes language comes from the Hangingham. Yeah, a lot of access. Most spiral staircases are not 5t wide unless it's like
gone with the wind or something. Yeah. Um the Look at that one a little bit closer. It's and going back to the great room. If so, if you have a great room and it's got a
one foot extension from that wall, one foot from that wall, then it's two rooms. And so you could have a kitchen here and a and a living room there. And it's two
rooms. If you just take that one foot piece and remove it on both sides. It's one room. So, the kitchen and the and the living room uh are one room. I That makes no sense. Yeah. There's to be a functionality
aspect here that the space that's functionally used one thing and this space is functionally used for another thing. Why can't we then interpret that as two two I think I mean
room functionally two rooms. I mean usually a room like that would have like a um a island separating or a little half wall with spiral. Yeah. Usually would. But an a clever architect if he wants to manipulate the
number of rooms can just remove the island and and now he's he's eliminated a room. Yeah. Well, how about if we modify that to say a room has distinctive physical borders or distinctive functions?
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I can envision a great room where the kitchen's at one side, then there's a dining room. Y and then at the other side there's a 70 foot in 72 inch television surrounded by a sectional. Yeah.
To me, that's three rooms. and without a border, but they have distinctive functions. Yes. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that, too. Really? The only Well, that that'll that that'll that will u take in a lot more of the great room. So, most I mean, most of the great rooms will be like that.
You know, they have a kitchen, they have a they have a dining room, and then there may be three rooms. So, that'd be three rooms. that that's a big that that's well we can um I mean whatever but that will be significant I
think uh number-wise but what they say rooms have some little dart demarcation in them now most of them do yeah yeah this this language comes from the Hingham part but it this goes on protrudes into the space or or obstructs normal movement
within the space and produces a defined visual demarcation right a defined visual demarcation. So it's kind of subjected to some extent. Well that means that then our problem will be being consistent in applying it and you know
right in sizewise I know I think some of these towns have a great room over a certain square foot size then they say it's two rooms just based on the size. So there's towns have got tried to get
at that different ways, but we can I I go with a we can do whatever. Um now the what the process from here is this document will go to a public hearing and then we'll presumably get a lot of input because there should be some interested people. And um then Judy, what happens
if we make if we make some changes at the public hearing? We want to make some changes into the regulation. What do we have to do? Can we just do that with the vote or do we have to go to another public hearing later and bring it back again? Um, no. We we just if we have one
it's minor. If it's a minor thing, I think you just proceed. Yeah. If if the board votes at the public hearing to accept the um regulation with these minor edits or um I think you can just proceed. Then we can just proceed. Um, I just I
do want to remind you that we do have a definition of a bedroom in we spoke about this the two other regulations that the title five septic subsurface sewage regulation and the nitrogen loading regulation. So, this is going to have to supplant that or else I
be referenced. Yeah, I got to I So I want to ask town council how to do that or whether I should would be best to go back and delete that from those two regulations as well. Um and say bedroom difference a legal question. Please refer to this as a
set it up. I like what Ron said actually. Well, so and what I'm getting at is that we can make some tweaks to it um at the next time as well. So yeah, we we know we get time. I would say in my recollection, I don't think we've had a variance come up where we've
done a total house room count and it's been so high that we c we couldn't pass it. I mean this I've had it in the office before. Well, you get it beforehand. Yeah, I've had it. You correct. I recently had one that had like right a lot of rooms and I was like, "Yeah, I
don't think so." So, well, architects definitely design to what the rules are for sure. um they tried to you know that's what they nothing wrong with that but
so so in this whole room count do we want do do you want me to take out some of this language because it kind of if we're going to say room has distinctive physical borders or distinctive functions then
these the next two paragraphs are kind of um not or other architectural featur fe features that protrude into the space or obstructs normal movement within the space. And then it says conversely the lack of
any distinctive bumpouts. I I would recommend leaving them in. I don't think this is an area where redundancy is going to be a problem. Okay. I mean, you know, you're making every effort to try to be as absolutely clear as possible. I would think architects would be very appreciative of that.
Yeah. So, you think we should leave it as it is? The last sentence. But we have our we have some discretion too. So, but go ahead, Dick. Well, the last sentence that you were just referring to, the lack of these,
you know, projections, lack of any distinctive bumpout projecting casework or pillars. Yeah, I think that I would eliminate that. I would saying that we don't need that lack of any distinctive bumpout. I can I can change that. So it says um
just leave the first but has distinctive functions or something like that. I want to say if it doesn't have I can rewrite that then it's only one. So it basically is consistent with what we have up above. Yeah. Get rid of where it says considered as one room.
Right. Well, I can I I'm guessing that some of the architects, engineers will be very interested in this because they'll have to design to what this says and they'll may ask about exactly what we mean and how it's going to be interpreted, which
is fair. Yeah. Fair question and we can hash that out, I suppose. But um so where are we now with the open concept design? Uh, I mean, Ron said, I like the first paragraph.
First paragraph. I like the first paragraph. The second paragraph then says, conversely, the lack of any distinctive bump out. That's kind of redundant anyway, isn't it? Um, but it says would generally be considered one room. And that's kind of not what we're saying. We don't want that's that's contradicting what we said at the
beginning, right? Right. So, we may want to strike that sentence. Okay. and then leave a bedroom cannot be solely accessible through another bedroom, right? Um the room providing access to the more distal room would be a room, which we
know I do we do that anyways. Um okay. And then the final part on the enforcement and review, I just beefed that up a little bit. Um I didn't add any fines or anything like that, you know, any real legal stuff because really this is just a definition to be
used um when using our other regulations. So, I just this would apply to uh owners asking for a variance if if it's a place that already exists, they're grandfathered with the room counts and all.
But well, I would Yes, it depends. Um I mean, it depends on the situation. If they're designing a new system um and the house isn't changing, then I'm going to I'm going to use the room count, right? So they're asking for a variance for a new septic system.
It might not be a variance. It might might be just a regular coming through the office, too. So, right. If they're if they're Yeah. Okay. Putting in a new septic system. And nine times out of 10, those are pretty straightforward. You know, one more thing. Are there no summer
cottages in Chattam that don't have that that lack heat? There there are. Well, according to this, if it doesn't have heat, it can't have a bedroom. Well, that's in the state code and we can't Well, Yeah. So, if you have a summer car to draw a
lot of heat, then you can't sleep there. It's okay. It's my code. That's what the answer. That's his answer. Um, actually, I heard it doing that. True. A bedroom has to be heated um certain times of the year. Um,
oh, can we say that? I can I can just say that nobody's building houses without heat anymore. So, um, this comes up mostly with, um, pool houses is when I find that. So,
yeah, it's kind of, you know, pool houses are always the problem because people want it, they'd say, well, I won't put heat in it. And when you go back and there's splits in
there and you know saunas and um Okay. So at the public hearing we may get some may get more input and we can sort of uh fine-tune that language if we need to. So are you going to send us this one more time then? I think we should look at it one more time. Could you I know I hate to overdo it but
but put it on an agenda item do the trackings next time. Yeah. Let me get the answer and we can focus. Right on. Right. And I'll get a final cleaned up version and then I'll have spoken to town council and um and see what he thinks about it and and what how we should proceed as far as
the old regulation. Okay. And um yeah, bring it back and then we can get it on for sometime in um maybe early December and have it be avail start January 1 or something. Good. When would we have our public hearing?
Hopefully early December. Why do we have to put it off so long? Well, I mean, we we have one more meeting in October and then we have two meetings. Well, we could do it maybe the second meeting in November. Yeah. Or the And then when are you going to bring this final document? We have to advertise the public hearings
two weeks and two pay, you know, in the paper two times prior. And and when will you bring back the a further revision of this uh whole for the next meeting? Next meeting. Okay. Oh, yeah. All right, we'll keep moving forward. Okay, so it'll be next meeting. Okay, we'll review the whole thing again at our next meeting. It's already, you know,
next meeting is midocctober and it'll be Christmas before we know it. Stop. So, and then the short-term rental regulation renewal where these Well, that won't that's different. Okay. All right. Any other questions or comments or
any input from the public on um bedroom definition proposed regulation? Okay, seeing none. All right. And then uh
lastly, we have um No, you can turn the sound off. Is there a button on there that you can turn the sound? I mean, I'm not I'm not good with this smartphone, but I think I think there's a button on there. I should have done it the first time. Okay, pardon me. Okay, the last item is
the McGrath 32 Milh Hill Road um on the cleanup and update from the last meeting and Judy can give us an update with for that. So I u Greg said that the date is as far as I know is the 14th of October. They
were waiting for town council to notify the owner of the property and um work out with the contractor the PD detail um and I guess some showtime should be 10:14.
That's what we're that's what we're told. That's that's all I got. That's good though. So, so they're going to dig with the excavators and they're gonna rub.
Well, dig through the layers of trash. Yeah. I don't think they're going to dig in. They I don't think they know how deep it really is in some of the places. I think their plan is to move through to make a track access access lane. Yeah. You know, shocking.
Wow. But I think uh scrap metal they're they are going to sell and then it's um and then if if there's an issue some stuff can be stored um but there's not a hazardous materials are going to be put aside as a separate
pile and then that'll be a separate RFP to have someone come in and remove that. But right it's not going to be a situation where any of this trash is left behind by the owner's request or whatever. It's all going to be cleaned up and put in
different piles. And then the maintenance piles the judge gave my understanding is the judge gave the town the authority to maintain the cleanup. That's good. But if we have to do that, I think Greg, Mr. Burman said that we would that would be another RFP and and getting the money
and all that. Yeah, this is a different process going through. So we'll have to sort of unless unless at the at the minimous amount I don't think you'd have to go RFP if the amount of reccleaning is fairly minimal and who would do it contractor or the
DPW that's that was the previous I think you can just pick a cont I don't think you have to well oh I don't think you need to necessarily do a formal RFP if the scope of the work is is below a certain threshold right
that's that's something Greg would very familiar with because he works with those big contracts all the time. So I think Joanna had I did. Yes. I drove by yesterday. Um just to show people. Um it's kind of a tourist attraction.
Yeah. Anyway, it was um there were so many tires and I'm wondering are they recyclable? Will they be able to sell those for those usually go um they'll be they'll be removed. I don't
think special handling process. Special handling for them. Yes. But can you can you recycle rubber? They can go to tire plants where they will shred them and use them. I think you have to pay to get I think usually you wind up paying to get rid of I think a tires like a match. But I did drive by today too when the
with the pile of tires which a new pile of tires. Yeah. And um there's there's a car parked down there. Um a new one another one a different one. So why not no significant cleanup from before? Why would we be seeing prior to
the cleanup arrival of more debris, right? Unless there was a premeditated intent. I'm just thinking out loud. I I just Right.
to get rid of stuff. Yes. But who's getting rid of it? Well, I mean, eventually he's paying for it. So, I mean Yeah. So, but how did a bunch of new I I I don't know what you all saw. I I haven't seen How many tires are we talking about?
30 40 Oh, easily. Oh, wow. Huge rims. Somebody's bringing in stuff before it's getting cleaned up. Somebody may be paying him to dump tires
on his lot. The town will remove those tires for free. or put a lean on his house. He doesn't care about that. So, right now, he can make a profit. If somebody brings 500 tires and puts them on his on his lot, they might pay
him $500 and and and uh the town is is on is on the hook to remove those tires. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't we don't know what his motivation is. He's been very difficult to deal with. He's been a problem. This has been going on for maybe decades.
He says that's part of his income stream and u so it's not all rational and making sense. So I I don't I think trying to figure out doesn't get us too far but we have October 14th to clean it up and the judges given us the authority to do it. So that's good.
Yes. Should be done within two weeks. Yes. Is that what I understand? Yep. I think if the town has to pay the cost of getting rid of 500 tires, it'd be worth it to get rid of this problem. And then and the and the suggestion is that the contractor have have police to
help with traffic and whatever security other comments or questions or I'm happy. So been a long process and um Mr. Burman basically is handling all the
contracts up at this point. Yep. Uh, any public input on um 32 Milh Hill Road cleanup? Nope. Okay. Awesome. Um, okay. So, now we have uh any public
comments or future agenda items request. We know that the bedroom uh definitions will be coming back on and we'll have more um short-term rental uh violations few every week kind of.
Yeah, every month or so. Yeah. And Karen will be here to work on that next time hopefully. Um anything else? Agenda items, things we need to pick up do. I'll make a motion we accept the draft. um meeting summary from September 15th,
2025. We moved right on to minutes. Right. In a second. Second. Okay. And then I'll take a roll call. Um Carol Boyce, yes. John Beckley, yes. Ron Bowman, yes. Edwards,
yes. And Noble Hansen, yes. And then can I get a motion to adjurnn? So move. Second. Okay. And then voice a vote. Uh Carol Boyce, yes. John Beckley, yes. John Bowman, yes. Edwards, yes.
Noble Hansen, yes. We are adjourned.