Good afternoon. This is a hearing of the Chatham Conservation Commission being held on June 10th, 2026 in accordance with the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act and the Town of Chatham Wetlands Protection Bylaw and Regulations. My name is Karen Laughton and I serve as the chair.
Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled or on-demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, including the use of AI note-taking apps, please notify the
chair. Pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28, 2025 signing of Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, extending certain COVID-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency, suspending
certain provisions of the open meeting law, General Law chapter 30A, section 20, until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Chatham Conservation Commission is being conducted in person and via remote participation.
Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 1-508-945-4410
and conference ID 486-684-710# or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link posted in the agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simulcast on Chatham TV, Xfinity channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be
able to provide real-time access. To all participants, whether attending by phone or online, please remain muted unless you've been recognized by the chair. >> [snorts] >> When recognized, please identify yourself for the record. If you are attending by phone, you can
mute and unmute by using star six. If you are online and you are not a commissioner, please keep your camera turned off unless you've been recognized. Indicate that you wish to speak by using the raised hand feature. So that we have a record of a quorum, I will now ask each commissioner to
indicate their presence. Vice Chair Paul Johnson. >> Present. >> Janet Williams. >> Present. >> Elise Gordon is not present. Eric Kilburn. >> Present. >> Bob DelVecchio. >> Present. >> And I'm here, so we've established we have a quorum. Is there anyone who would like to make
any announcements, comments, or future agenda items for anything other than the properties on the agenda today? You may comment on those when the property is being heard. I don't see anyone online, so I think we're good.
Before we begin the agenda, Paul Uh Paul good. Bradford, are there [laughter] any announcements about any requests for continuances today? >> There are two continuance requests. One for 42 Old Harbor Lane and the other
for lot 59 Old Field Bend Road. >> Excellent. Thank you. At this point, Bradford Bauer, Chatham's assistant conservation agent, will now lead us through the agenda. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. First up is a
order of conditions for 0130 and 138 Champlain Road. This is for Cornelia K. Atkins. Map 13A parcels 16B-1B, 16A/
-2B, and 16C -3. DEP number SE10-3773. This is for a boat house and driveway renovation, dune nourishment, and landscaping within the coastal wetland resource areas. Continued from April 8th and April 22nd,
2026. >> Great. Uh do we have anybody here for Champlain? I don't know that it was necessary because we did go over this at the previous meeting and we're just waiting for ZBA, and I know that they approved it. So,
>> I'm here. It's John Sibley Bedworks Design. Just as a formality, just to re- >> You need to stand at the mic if you're if you're going to speak. Thank you. >> Hi, John Sibley Bedworks Design. You've heard mostly from Bob Perry and Shane Sibley. >> Right. >> Co-owner of Bedworks Design. I'm just
here as a formality and answer any questions that could come up, but we did get full approval from the ZBA on >> Perfect. >> May 28th. >> Wonderful. Okay, then if we could have a motion. >> I move that we close the hearing on 0130
and 138 Champlain Road and approve the order of conditions as written. >> Second. >> Bob. >> I. >> Eric. >> I. >> Paul. >> I. >> Janet. >> I. >> And I say I. You're all set. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, the next, please.
>> Next is an order of conditions for 93 Woodland Way. Uh, this is for Peter and Dana Agnes, map 12K parcel 17-HC36, DEP number 10-3775. This was for a proposed shed and removal
of existing patio and mitigation areas. Uh, this was continued from April 22nd and May 27th, 2026. >> Great. Thank you. Do we have anybody here for Woodland Way? >> Yes, this is Jake Fricke. I'm here with
Cape and Islands Engineering. >> Okay, did you receive the order? >> I did. I received the order and reviewed it. I sent a one edit that I'm aware of to to Crystal yesterday. And this is in
the findings bullet point three. It it states that uh, in the one, two, three, fourth line, and considering the proposed mitigation, the commission finds that the increase in the NDZ is offset by an overall
benefit in the resource. I think that that that NDZ should be replaced by outer RF. >> And it has been. Okay. >> Excellent. >> And that's it? >> That that is it. I know that there was some questioning about
what the treatment would be for the for the edge of the mitigation planting to to solidify that line through time. And communicated with the the installer and the client and they indicated that intermittent cobbles delineate the edge
of the lawn {slash} mitigation area would be installed. >> Okay, thank you. Um Does anybody have anything else that they'd like Go ahead, Bob. >> Uh thank you for your attention to that.
Yeah, I was just wondering what whether we can add that to the number 10 special condition. The mitigation area shall be demarcated with intermittent cobblestone in order to protect the area. >> Perfect. Yeah, I had just put demarcated.
>> Yeah. >> Because I didn't know what we were doing. It's number 10 in the special. >> Is it what with >> Just with >> Intermittent cobblestones is what he said. Um anything else? >> That's it. Thank you. >> Anybody else?
Okay, thank you. Then we can have a motion, please. >> I move that we close the hearing on 93 Woodland Way and approve the order of conditions as modified. >> Second. >> Bob. >> I. >> Eric. >> I. >> Uh Paul. >> I. >> Janet.
>> I. >> And I say I. Thank you. You're all set. Next >> Excellent. Thank you so much. Have a good day. >> Bradford. >> Next up is an order of conditions >> [clears throat] >> for 357 Stony Hill Road. This is for John
Hernandez, map 14 I parcel 2B-25B. DEP number 10-3765. This is for a proposed swimming pool continued from March 11th and May 27th, 2026. >> Great, thank you. Hi, how are you?
>> Good, how are you? >> Could you please identify yourself? >> John Hernandez, the owner of 357 Stony Hill. >> Okay, great. Um I we sent the order to your representatives. Okay, is there anything that uh >> No.
>> jumped out? >> They said everything was look good. >> Okay, perfect. Uh commissioners, anybody? No. Then excellent, we can go to a motion. >> I move that we close the hearing on 357 Stony Hill Road and approve the order of
conditions as written. >> Second. >> Bob. >> Aye. >> Eric. >> Aye. >> Paul. >> Aye. >> Janet. >> Aye. >> And I say aye. You're all set, thank you. >> so much. Have a good summer. >> You too. Okay, Bradford. >> All right.
>> Next [clears throat] up is a request to amend an order of conditions for 504 Old Harbor Road. This is for Blue Heron Trust, map 16H, parcel PB. Uh
DEP number SE10-3752. Uh this was for the relocation of an existing dwelling onto a new foundation, including construction of additions and renovations, construction of a swimming pool, cabana, and hardscaping, um and relocation of existing driveway mitig- gation. As
mitigation, existing lawn will be restored with native plantings. Amendment is to add a basement to the pool cabana to house pool equipment and storage and add subsurface drywells for stormwater and uh foundation drains. This is phase one.
>> Thank you. Do we have anybody here for this property? >> Yeah, good afternoon. Uh Peter Stevens from Dan Gordon Landscape Architects here. I'm also joined by uh John O'Day at Sullivan Engineering. >> Okay. >> Um yeah, so we're just requesting again
it's the changes don't they don't result in any changes in impervious. Uh so the existing mitigation plantings haven't changed or proposed mitigation plantings haven't changed. Um what we're proposing is to include a basement
in the cabana which is the same footprint of the existing structure. There will be a bulkhead entry. The bulkhead entry square footage is already covered in our area calculations previously. And we're also proposing drainage
via a series of dry wells stationed throughout the property given the grade changes it made sense to have multiple areas of dry wells. And we're proposing to infiltrate up to I believe John correct me if I'm wrong but a 100-year storm event um
to reduce runoff. So all impervious areas will be captured and infiltrated which always it was always the the plan but we didn't have the engineering at the time the original submission. Um would you like to see the plans?
>> Uh if you want to that's fine. Um >> Sure. >> We do have them but if you want to post them that's perfect. >> Okay. Sure. Happy to share. Um so this is the site plan proposed improvements
um that has been presented to you a couple of times. Um We are proposing again this is the cabana down in this location here. Okay. I'm highlighting it now if you can see that. >> Yep. Now it's that's better. I was going to say it's all black squiggles now.
>> I know. I know. Sorry. >> No you >> Okay. So the proposed cabana in that location the bulkhead door is in this location here. You can see the 50-ft buffer zone in the lower part part of the screen here. 100-ft buffer zone here. So it is within the buffer zone. The cabana again
has not changed in footprint. Uh the previously approved plans did show the bulkhead door. Um we did not identify that it had a basement at the time. So, that's why we're requesting the amendment now. Um and then the drainage system, uh
we have one system located here off the rear of the house at the elevated rear lawn. Um that area infiltration area would be for all of the rear of the house, rear roof area, and the the pool uh patios.
So, all the terraces around the pool would be collected and infiltrated through those infiltration systems. There's a second infiltrator, another infiltration system down at the parking court, which handles runoff from the uh drive-under garage. Because of the elevation change, we needed a system down low there.
Um we also have a system here, which would be for all foundation drains. We don't anticipate much foundation drainage, so it's really just a belt suspenders. Um it's very sandy soil, but uh we did include that there for the um uh foundation drains.
We have another small uh dry well in this location by the driveway um entry, and that is for the driveway drains. The driveway is being removed. It's an existing asphalt driveway. We're proposing to install pea stone, but we still feel that some additional drainage
is warranted. So, we're showing some inlets around the driveway uh to this catch basin, and then another series of catch basins, which are actually outside the buffer zone here. Um and those would be for the driveway drains on this side, the front portion
of the roof runoff, and uh the sport court, which again is outside the buffer zones. Um any questions? >> Um before I put it open to commissioners, since this basement is to put the pool
equipment, where was the pool equipment before? >> The pool equipment had been shown of my screen. >> Yeah, it's not a happy search there. >> I know. There we go. I'm on a laptop. It doesn't help. So, the pool the pool
equipment used to be in this location and some additional air conditioning units which are now relocated over here outside the buffer zone. Um So, we're still proposing some utilities there. We have a generator and one heat
pump, but the area of the utilities has been reduced. So, it's all inside the cabana now. >> Well, it's inside the cabana if we say that putting in a basement is okay. But, if it's it what >> [laughter]
>> Just as a what if, what if we I I and I'm This is truly a what if. What if we said no to the basement, would they go back to that spot? >> Yes. >> Okay. Just curious. All right. >> Yeah, that's fair.
>> Um commissioners Any questions, comments? This is just phase one. >> Yeah, we can get the questions out of the way so we can move quickly. It feels >> kind of curious. >> Yeah, I'm Thank you for pointing out all of those various infiltration systems.
So, that was my question. Was trying to decipher this very crowded site plan to to locate all of those. So, that was very helpful. >> Mhm. >> Um anybody else?
I have just one kind of silly request for phase two and that is when you come back before us and we have the plan, could you bold or put the word
um you know, amended >> Amended. >> before so that whatever you're marking so that because it is a very crowded plan it jumps out at us more because everything says proposed.
And some of it's already been approved. So, you know, just so that we have an easier way of spotting [laughter] these in the Yeah, because like Janet, I was looking around going, "Where is everything?"
>> And you'd be highlighting them in a color or something like you did on the for here, just doing some kind of a >> Yeah, some way and and add the something about amended because what we get is the entire proposal and it's hard you know, you're trying to look I'm
reading what's been added or wants to be added. So, it just would help. >> Absolutely, no problem. >> Um anybody any anything else? Or can we go to a motion to approve phase one?
>> I move that we >> approve phase one. >> Approve 504 Old Harbor Road uh the amended order of conditions phase one as written. >> Second. >> Bob.
>> Aye. >> Eric. >> Aye. >> Paul. >> Aye. >> Janet. >> Aye. >> And I say aye. So, we'll see you again at some point. >> Sounds excellent. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Have a good afternoon. >> Okay, Bradford next.
>> Next up is a >> [cough] >> notice of [clears throat] intent for 87 Plum Daffy Lane. This is for Terry B and Janet L. Wells. Map 9A parcel 5A-D15. DEP number 10-3772.
Uh this is for a proposed for proposed coastal bank coastal state Oh my gosh. >> [laughter] >> Proposed coastal stabilization and proposed beach access stairs. Uh this is continued from April 8th, 2026. >> Okay.
How are you? >> Good evening. Uh for the record, Rowley Sardy from Cape and Islands Engineering. Also joining us remotely is Tabitha from Wilkinson Ecological Design. Um so this this project was presented uh
earlier to this board and it was continued. The main project um really did did not receive a lot of comments back uh from this commission. Um the main project being the shoreline stabilization, the reconstruction of the stairs with a
removable section. However, some of the commissioners did visit at the site and notice some of the managing that had taken place on the coastal bank and we continued this hearing to amend the application to
include land restoration um to rectify uh what has happened down the bank with the cutting of vegetation. So that um has been the reason for this main continuance and the additional supplemental documents which Tabitha is
going to um elaborate even further. I will just end my portion with stating that we did present the project before Board of Appeals and Board of Appeals approved the project so that step of of this project has been completed. Um so with that, I'll pass it over to Tabitha.
Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Hi Tabitha. >> Good afternoon, everyone. This is Tabitha Kegel from Wilkinson Ecological Design for the record. Um I'm going to go ahead and share my screen if that's okay. >> Mhm. >> Okay, since the last hearing um we've
developed a comprehensive restoration plan for the coastal bank to really address those previous management activities that were brought up during the last hearing. And we've also revised our initial plan, which shows the sheet one of the two plans that two plans
sheets that you have now that shows the proposed fiber rolls and salt marsh pillow. So, first I'd just like to quickly point out that in response to the last hearing, we've added on the first sheet that shows the fiber rolls and the salt salt marsh pillows, we've added
quantities to the number of plugs within those salt marsh pillows. >> And what is that? I don't have that right in front of me. Just so I can make a note. How many? >> It It varies
by So, there's a low marsh zone and a transitional high marsh zone and then there's the planting on the top of the coastal bank. So, >> I do see them. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um So, now
um I'm going to go over to the second sheet in the plan set. And this is where we developed what we feel is a really robust plan to restore the coastal bank with a diverse stratified native plant community that will include a ground layer vegetation,
shrub layer, and a canopy layer. And so, just to briefly go through this plan, we've really outlined four management areas that will utilize slightly different moves, if you will, to restore this entire stretch of coastal bank where you can see these various colored
hatches. So, the first area, which is shown in a light gray solid hatch, is what we are calling the unmanaged coastal bank area. And in this area, all pruning activities will be stopped and existing native vegetation will be allowed to grow over
time. Really, the only activity that's proposed proposed here would be a sweep through to remove any um existing germinating invasive plants, such as Asiatic bittersweet, of which there is a fair amount. Um in this area, we are also proposing
to plant 13 local ecotype scrub oak at various locations um across the mid and lower bank. Um and these trees will be allowed to grow to their full mature height without further management. So, that's the unmanaged coastal bank
area in this light gray hatch, which you can see over a substantial portion of the bank. The second area um in this light green dotted hatch is what we're calling the coastal bank restoration area. Um and it is directly due east of the
residence. This area is really heavily impacted by bittersweet that's overtopping much of the previously managed vegetation, and a lot of um any existing vegetation in that area is really degraded and and dying under this
vine cover. And we got out there very recently, and we were really able to see the condition clearly now that we have um full leaf out in this latter portion of the spring, and much of the green in this location is indeed invasive vines.
So, our proposal for this area is to essentially begin again, if you will. We want to remove all invasive plants um dead and failing previously pruned natives, and replant with a really robust native plant community that
includes 112 native shrub species, such as bayberry, beach plum, black chokeberry, arrowwood, um a nice cover of native grasses that really retain those soils. And the proposal for this area is to really locate those species on the bank
where they're going to be allowed to grow to their full mature height and won't require future pruning. Um I'd also like to point out these um four orange dots on the plan. Um
so these are some of the larger black oak trees which had previously been managed by topping um and we are proposing to try to restoratively prune these um and get them back to a natural more natural growth habit for these trees.
Um but as we also recently observed, these trees are not in great condition and they have very little foliage for the time of the year. So restorative pruning efforts we'd like to give that a try, but ultimately it may not be successful. Um and if that's the case um
we are proposing these trees really remain in place as snags um as they continue, you know, to to degrade and decay, they're really going to provide some important habitat for insects and cavity nesting birds in the future.
And those 13 scrub oak I proposed um I mentioned in the previous that will be located throughout the unmanaged area will go some way towards replacing canopy on the bank. So the third area is what we're calling the thicket management area and this is
located to the southeast of the residence. Um overall this area is somewhat less impacted by invasive plants on the coastal bank but the rest of the coastal bank but it still has its fair share of bittersweet vines. Um and this area is really a dense cluster
of native arrowwood and sassafras and other native shrubs. Um and the height management over time has resulted in dense spacing between the plants with a foliage limited to the top third of the plant which really cast that dense shade on the understory and we didn't really
observe much ground layer vegetation in these areas. So for this area we are proposing that much of this um um valuable native vegetation remain in place as thicket, which really can provide uh safe spaces for birds to nest and shelter, but that
this dense growth be thinned um to approximately 4 ft on center between the plants. And this will open up some light gaps and allow us to seed native grasses on the bank and and retain those soils. Um and then a restorative pruning effort
will be performed on the remaining plants to maintain them into a shrub-like form in a more natural under undulating format than has currently happening. So, varying in height from 4 to 6 ft. Um And this approach will help to
rejuvenate that habitat area, get that ground layer layer vegetation established, and also maintaining the a filtered vista towards Harding's Beach, which is an important vista. Um the last, but not least, certainly um
area is the uh lawn. It is, excuse me, um it's located in this green hatch, um and this is the vegetated um buffer zone we're proposing to create at the top of
the bank. Um it is shown in that green hatch, as I said, and in this area we would remove lawn um and replant it with native shrub and herbaceous species to really create that help create that contiguous vegetated buffer strip at the top of the
bank. Um and this area ranges in depth from the top of the bank landward from 4 to 7 ft. Just one other quick thing I'd like to point out is this striped light gray hatch that follows along the patio to the residence to the north is a previous
mitigation area um that forms a a solid vegetated buffer at the top of the north, the central, and north end of the bank. Uh Um, and we observed that the plants in that area are thriving. There's switchgrass, wheat fern, creeping juniper, and other native plants.
Um, so really this area when taken with our proposed area will create a substantial vegetated buffer along the top of the bank. And that is my presentation. Happy to take questions.
>> Okay, thank you. Um, anybody want to start? I have one question. When in the thicket management area, you mentioned maintaining a vista. And
do you have a previous order that allows you to maintain a vista area? >> There have been a number of order of conditions on this property, um, that actually did have ongoing conditions to
maintain, um, portions of this portion of the bank to 4 ft in height. Um, and there's >> There ha- there has been a number of order of conditions over the years, some under the previous ownership. Um, there's also been a number of RDAs,
which I understand from the last hearing are are not valid anymore. But we did find an ongoing order of conditions >> Okay. >> for management of that area. >> I just wanted to be sure that that has been
allowed previously before we start doing that and then by default allowing it. Um, okay, thank you. >> Sure. >> Anybody? Eric? >> I just want to say this is a really great plan. >> Yeah.
>> Thanks. >> Go ahead, Janet. >> Um, yeah, hi. I I do like what you're doing and I assume that these four areas as you've outlined them, this is the work that's being proposed to settle whatever violation of
occurred by the topping of the vegetation on the bank. >> Correct. >> Okay, cuz it wasn't quite spelled out that way. So as we said in the last hearing that we will use the order of conditions to resolve any outstanding violations. So
we will reference all of this to do that. One question I have is the lawn removal area on the restoration plan is shown as 345 square feet. But on the site plan, it's 250.
>> Mhm. >> Yeah, we can correct corrected. >> Which is correct? >> So on this Yeah, which one is correct? I'm >> It's It's 345 square feet. >> Okay, so on the There's a note at the top of the site plan, the third box down on the right says existing lawn within
250 square feet. Maybe that meant linear feet along the top of the bank. It It says square feet, but maybe that was the uh the issue. That it should have been linear, but it Either Either way, just make sure that they are consistent. Um >> Absolutely.
>> Okay. And um So Okay, so the restoration plan is really to resolve the violations and add mitigation to this project. The stabilization plan is what is the focus on the coastal bank work. So that's why
these two plans uh both in the land management plan >> There's someone who go Yeah, who's making weird has weird noises. So if everybody except the person being doing speaking could mute, I'd
appreciate it cuz we're getting terrible humming and buzzing. Anyway, yeah. Thank you. So the it just last question, does the land management plan cover all of this, this whole project as it exists in 2026 going forward for resolution of
violations, for the bank project, for everything? Is that >> It does. It's broken out by section in the land in the land management plan. >> Okay. So, it all covers the entire project. Okay. >> Correct. >> Got it. Thank you very much. Okay. Anybody anything else? Bob, go
ahead. >> Hi, how are you? >> Hello. >> Uh on on the lawn removal area, you mentioned it's going to be demarcated with something, so you know, people don't encroach in that area.
Um what what did you imagine putting on that edge? >> Uh we typically recommend small, you know, small boulders and/or sometimes that's not what people want or granite bounds that stick up just enough to, you know,
right above the lawn edge so that nobody mows into that edge. Um we could also look at like a black steel edging. I just want to make sure that it's acceptable with you folks. Um there's different towns have different preferences as far as what
they are find acceptable. >> All of the above. >> Yeah, I think either or is fine as far as I'm concerned. >> Okay, great. >> Um and I was going to ask on the uh uh also on the coastal bank restoration area,
uh why not include an an edge there? >> That area will really butt up against the previous mitigation area, which is shown in this gray hatch, which is already naturalized, um and it's already delineated and no one is mowing into that area. It run It It forms a natural
barrier to the top of the coastal bank that is already well vegetated with native species. >> Okay, so you think it's it's it's that area is dense enough so it's not going to be infiltrated? >> Yes, yeah. It's It's definitely not a
mowed area. There are shrubs there, um, native grasses. It's really apparent. >> Yeah, okay, good enough. Thank you. >> Welcome. >> Anybody anything else? No? Okay, um,
I think we can go to an order. So, how soon do you need this? >> As soon as you can possibly get it. >> I figured, of course. Um, I think we can do it for this 24th
because we actually we don't have much new on the 24th right now. We're in pretty [snorts] good shape. So, I think we could put it on the 24th. >> Perfect. Thank you.
>> I move that we continue 87 Plum Daffodil Lane to the meeting on June 24th, 2026 for an order of conditions. >> Second. >> Bob? >> Aye. >> Eric? >> Aye. >> Paul? >> Aye. >> Janet? >> Aye. >> And I say aye. We'll see you on the
24th. You'll receive that a day or two ahead of time. And please, if there are modifications, you send them to us so that new advance would be appreciated. >> Will do. Thank you, everyone. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bradford? Okay. >> Next up
>> [cough] >> Excuse [clears throat] me. Next up is a notice of intent for uh 53 Little Beach Road for Monomoy Rips LLC, map 16A, parcel H50, uh DEP number 10-3747.
This is for uh demolition of existing dwelling and construction of new dwelling within land subject to coastal storm fluage. This was continued from July 9th, 2025 and January 14th, 2026. >> Hey. >> David Clark, Clark Engineering, Bill
Riley. >> Yes. >> Um so, there's a been a change of plans. >> Yeah. >> Just so you know, this is the war This is the war and peace version of the Conservation Commission. >> [laughter] >> So, um >> Hey, we're not you know
>> Not not your fault. >> Exactly. You're blaming us and we're in this too. >> not blaming you at all. I was just >> [laughter] >> I mean, that's the That's the title of the voluminous knowledge that we're going to write about this. >> Oh, okay. I hope it sells well. >> [laughter] >> Go ahead.
>> So, when I was here last time, we hadn't received any plans and wasn't on the horizon. Um we just received new house plans on Monday. So, um we we we have the opportunity now to move forward and
close this out as a demo rebuild project as opposed to the latest plan you have that just shows the subject upgrade. So, um we're going to ask for a continuance to August 26th meeting. That'll give us plenty of time
to get the plan done and Bill can file with Zoning Board of Appeals. >> Okay. Um I'm glad it cuz I had questions like that you know, was the mitigation remaining the mitigate you know, because
we didn't get new mitigation plan and I thought this is kind of >> for we spoke yesterday and Teresa responded to us saying that we we can get the plan done if you need it, but not just for this meeting. >> No. >> So, >> All right. >> So, it
we saved a wasted effort on Teresa's part if we do the plan. >> Yeah. All right. So, August 26th you said? >> Can I I have a question of course Jen. >> So are you going to is this going to be a new filing just for 53?
>> Yes, for 47. >> Or both in combination anymore? >> Just a minute, don't speak too quickly. >> Okay, I'm trying to get clear on this. >> The uh Uh the Hinkles have made a a change to the floor plan of 47.
Which relocates uh the door. Which relocates uh the outside stair that goes down to the grade and the and the retaining wall around it. We just submitted that. We just submitted that to Jay today to see if we have to go back to zoning for that.
Uh but we clearly would have to come back after you have to modify the accept the modified plan. >> All right, so >> So are you going to are we doing two separate plans? I'm coming back to the same question. >> two separate filings. One for 47 and one for 53. And they will both reference the
shared septic system somehow that makes it clear on both. Okay, so we so the mitigations will be separated. Fine. Okay. >> Yeah, can we >> Actually gives us an option. >> That was one of my confusing things was we have one mitigation plan for two
properties and you know, with changes to 53 it's getting very very confusing cuz we've already accepted the 47 mitigation. >> Mhm. >> So we really need
them separated out this time. >> I think we can do that. >> I it just for ease of in the future and being able to make sure everything's, you know, eyes are dotted and tees are crossed. >> Understood. I just want that that was the
fresh news yesterday. So Dave >> Yep. There's always something new, right? All right, So, August 26th, correct? >> Yes. >> All right. We have a motion, please. >> I move that we continue 53 Little Beach
Road to the meeting on August 26th, 2026. >> Second. >> Next. >> Bob? >> Aye. >> Eric? >> Aye. >> Paul? >> Aye. >> Jared? >> Aye. >> And I say aye. All right. We'll see you in August. >> I won't be >> Or on the next one, right?
>> Yeah, or cuz I think you're coming for 47. >> No, no, no. I was at 70, yeah, Harding's Beach. >> Uh >> I think that's the next one on the agenda. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. >> You'll refile a new filing or an amended filing for 47. >> Seven. >> Well, uh
it's a minor change, but so amended filing. >> change, okay. Yeah, all right. Okay. Okay, Bradford, next. >> All right. Next up is a notice of intent for 70 Harding's Beach Road for Jonathan Jonathan Welch, uh map 9C, parcel
M4, [clears throat] SE 10-3777. Uh this was for removal of existing patio, retaining walls, parking expansion, and construction of a new patio. This was continued from May 13th, 2026.
>> David Clark again, Clark Engineering, Bill Ryan. Uh good afternoon. The uh I'm a recent arrival to this case. Uh and the the thing that uh we'd like to address is the fact that
you know, we understand that there was work done that was not permitted, but it was done many years ago. And so, we think that uh the current owner shouldn't be have to bear the full burden of that.
There should be some uh sharing. We, you know, there's a as you know, there's a 3-year statute of limitations, which but she wants to be a good citizen. She wants to take care of things. But you know, she liked the idea of
that that Eric put forth at the last meeting about letting the marsh grass grow. Um would like to put a a one rail fence at the 4-ft contour so that
it doesn't get cut again. And that uh you know, we would do some additional mitigation uh either off to the left or the right. Uh and
right. We We haven't designed it yet. As I say, it uh So, what we'd like to do is uh continue this at the next meeting, come back with a uh a revised plan showing
uh somewhat less mitigation with the understanding that you know, this is 15 or 20 years old and that you know, the current owner shouldn't bear the full burden of
something that occurred so long ago was uh not the subject of a prior enforcement. >> So, um we had a plan that was ready to file uh last Friday morning. Um
Andrew Garulay, the the the landscape architect, is is working with a homeowner has scaled down the project so there's no increase in site coverage over what's there now. So, we're
So, the intent of that is so no additional mitigations required above and beyond addressing the violation. Um and the the basically the patio and the parking area up top. Um so as Bill said, what we thought of
is uh I looked at um the title station for Stage Harbor. Extreme high water is around elevation uh 2.2. The uh spot elevations where we got the
mark the edge of the marsh was all around uh elevation 2.9. Um so we're pretty confident that what we show was the edge of marsh is is the edge of the the marsh veget- marsh
vegetation including that area that's been mowed. So it looks like they've mowed right up to the edge of the marsh. So as as Bill offered uh the the the homeowner would understands that that area shouldn't be mowed right up to the edge of the marsh.
And we just before we finalize the plan, we just need a good idea or the direction we're going for with with the commission for the the mitigation for the violation. Um and plus this the six tree four six trees that we know we have to mitigate
for the rebuilding of the wall project. >> Right. Um Commissioners. Go ahead, Eric. >> But yeah, since you quoted me, I think it's excellent uh I uh idea you have it, but uh
if if you're not increasing, why do you have to put any mitigation at all in? >> Well, because of what they did. >> Well, violations. >> The old violation. >> What the what the mowing the >> No, no, uh the patio was was not built without a with uh
it was built without a permit as well as that parking area on the top side. And then this was all done 13 plus years ago. >> Okay. >> Well, you know, I was like Bob mentioned, it might be the same value. What if you just did some invasive
species control like the huge vines growing up the oaks. I know there's not a lot of lawn lawn left. Uh, you know, can do that and I'm just bringing an idea cuz Bob I thought had a good idea. Instead of putting plants in, have a
mitigation where you're doing an area of, you know, of invasive control. >> We'd be happy to come back with a plan to show that. >> Yeah. I mean, that's if everybody else agrees. I mean, I that's the only thing I think >> if there's invasives, if you don't manage them
>> pretty big [clears throat] vines going up the oak trees. >> manage the invasives, then yeah, they're going to invade. >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Plus you don't have to don't have to water water the plants and take care of them and that. You know.
>> So, how's everybody feel about that? >> You know, when I woke up this morning and saw this, I said to myself, I bet you Bill's going to be here for this. I'm serious. I'm serious. I knew it. I knew you were going to be here for this meeting. >> See? >> You know why? Cuz he's remembering days when I represented his father here.
>> [laughter] >> Probably. But I don't have to have any of those memories. Um, anybody have an opinion otherwise or go ahead, Bob. >> [snorts] >> I mean, yeah, they're invasives on on
either end of the property, especially in the in the back area, especially there. Um, there's as I mentioned this before, there's a lot of trash in the woods. >> In the backyard? >> Uh, the back there's a I think there's a steel trash barrel and
uh, there are other things, too, that have to be removed. >> Okay. >> Um but yeah, I mean, I'd like to see an invasive species plan, uh removal plan. >> All right.
>> Yes, I know that, you know, that would be all that would be acceptable. We'd love to come back with a plan uh, that showed that. >> All right. >> Invasive removal and a rail fence at Television Four. >> Yeah. Um
so, can you still come back for June 24th or do you want to put it out a little further? >> Well, CBA says we can't do work till Labor Day, right? So, it doesn't matter. >> Well, yeah, I mean, the uh >> I'm just asking you
>> Let's Let's put it on for the 24th. Uh, I'll I'll speak with Andrew Geroway uh, later today and I'll let you know by the end of the week whether >> You have to continue. >> Continue. >> Okay, we can do that. >> I move that we continue 70 Hardings
Beach Road to the meeting on June 24th, 2026. >> Second. >> Bob. >> Aye. >> Eric. >> Aye. >> Paul. >> Aye. >> Janet. >> Aye. >> And I say aye. >> Thank you very >> So, we'll see you next time. Thank you. All right, next, please.
>> Up next is a notice of intent for uh, 1174 Old Queen Anne Road. This is for Timothy and Judith Richie, map 6H, parcel 2A-T8, DEP number 10-3783.
Uh, this is for a request to demo and rebuild an existing cottage, install new basement entrance at main house, install septic upgrade with uh, AI tech >> [snorts] >> IA technology and installation [clears throat] of mitigation plantings with all associated
grading, utilities, and landscaping. This is a new application. >> How are you? >> Good. Good afternoon. Mark Dibb with Cape Ann Islands Engineering, uh representing the applicants at 1174 Old Queen Anne Road. Uh I'm going to go through the existing
site, existing resource areas, then go through the proposed project, and then be happy to answer any questions you might have. So, the existing property is a 91,801 sq ft uh existing lot with a single-family residence on it, as well
as a detached small >> [snorts] >> um cottage further to the east. There's an existing cottage. Uh the resource areas on the site consist of a salt marsh and river area to the north. And then as you come up the there is a
uh coastal bank associated with the slope um from the resource area on the north, um as well as on the south side, there's a BVW that also has a certified uh that's been certified as a vernal pool.
Um the associated buffer zones are shown, the 100-ft riverfront area, 200-ft riverfront area, and the blue lines that go across the site, uh the 50- and 100-ft buffer zones to the coastal bank have been shown on the
property as well. Again, the existing site currently has a the single-family home and uh a deck and a septic system connected to that, as well as the uh existing cottage is further east um
with a parking area in the middle. Um so, the proposed project consists of demoing the existing cottage and rebuilding a one-bedroom um artist studio
uh with a deck on the one side and uh um and walkway behind that just to get into the other entrance in the rear of the >> [snorts] >> that new building. Um, another piece of the project is to replace a just a small basement bulkhead
on the existing house with a little bit bigger some stair access down to the lower of that level of the house that's on the the little the the brown area on the easterly side of the existing house. Um we are proposing a nitrogen reducing
basically a best available nitrogen reducing technology septic system for the property. It is going from existing two bedroom up to three bedroom but we're basically proposing the one of the best systems that are out there for
nitrogen reducing for the septic system. We are also proposing to rebuild any of the failing um existing timber steps that go down the bank to
the north just in kind same location not proposing any raised steps or structures associated with those. Um we did show like lot coverages and
there is an increase of it was um 694 square feet from between the the the new studio the decks the little expanded entrance into the basement that
we are proposing the the green area from the top of the bank in inward towards the site. Um most of the work or all of the work is kind of contained up on that plateau area and existing um kind of used
areas We're not really proposing, I don't believe there's any tree removal to to redo this, um, cottage. Um we did provide, um, the requests for the work in the aura,
um, and alternatives and analysis. Again, the the area calculations, I think I our lot coverage is at about 2 or 3%. Uh, it is a pretty big lot. Um, with that, I think that's all I have and I'd be happy to
answer any questions you might have. >> It's the It's the iPad. >> Okay, anybody want to start? >> Yeah, I have a couple things. Um what was the reasoning behind putting the mitigation area way down that
bank? >> Just to enhance or, you know, make the buffer, uh, wider. We're just starting at the natural top of the bank and just go basically trying to put it at the closest, uh, area. >> a beautiful meadow that leads down to
that. It's It's >> Yeah, it's, you know, >> You call it lawn, but it's really just natural meadow. >> Yeah, we try to just put it closest to the resource area as possible. Um you know, as as we thought believe it's a one-to-one
requirement. Uh, [clears throat] we'd love to just keep it a meadow and not do it, but, um, you know, that's the reason, just being closest to the resource area as possible. >> my other comment was as I went on the on the It's a beautiful site. It's really a spectacular piece of property. Um
as I was walking down the steps, I noticed that there's a ton of invasives on the east side of those steps all the way down pretty much to the top of the coastal bank. Was there any consideration to removing some of those?
>> Uh >> I do not believe it was on the landscape plan, but there we did end up submitting a landscape plan with this project. I'd be happy to look at that and maybe get that. >> Okay, that would be greatly appreciated. >> Excuse me, were you were you
meaning to trade for planting mitigation versus the invasive or added it on to >> Well, adding on, but >> Well, one or the other? >> Yeah, I mean >> I I just I think part of it and I don't want to put words in your mouth, Paul,
but um is that the invasives are there and then you're putting mitigation and what are the chances the invasives are going to go down into this mitigation? >> Yeah. >> So, in trade of the >> Yeah, so in the trade that >> I I Yeah, I think we'd be love to look
at that and >> So, yeah, I mean it would be appreciated to look at it, I think. >> I think it would also make sense um because >> putting new plantings um down in that area is going to are going to be very hard to get water to. Um it's a long way
down there, so um maybe in that area just extend the meadow to the top of the bank and do the invasives and that would might be uh more effective in the long run and easier to maintain. Otherwise, I think that's a problem.
>> And meadows are becoming very rare in Shadow. >> No, that sounds great. >> Cool. >> Okay. Go ahead, anybody. >> Um I have I have a quick question. So, the elevated stairway that is going to be replaced in kind in the same location?
Or is that not being replaced? I'm confused between it says timber steps, accurate timber steps and elevated timber stairway. >> Yeah. >> Are they both getting replaced or just the accurate? >> Um any anything in poor condition was was proposed to get replaced.
>> Okay. >> Um, if I need to just clarify that, I can take a look at the notes on those and just make sure >> Yeah, there's an arrow pointing to it saying proposed entry and staircase. That's the elevated staircase that starts to go down from from the cottage going down. It's
not in terrible shape, but um >> Oh, yeah. >> Well, I think part of the problem is all the growth around it. Maybe when you clear all that out, you'll find out that it's in fine shape. It's okay. So, but the at grade timber steps are going to be replaced with stone with granite. Is that >> Yes.
>> Okay. So, there's not going to be any timber down at that part of it. Okay, that was um shell driveway. Is that going to be extended the entire length or just at the top of the parking area? The rest of the driveway is hard to say, maybe old gravel and old
shell that over time has been grown over. Is that all going to be restored or what's the plan for that? >> The there was only a very small area between the new cottage and the edge of the old
driveway. It's it's like a 3-ft strip. Um it was just going to be extended to match the the current material. There there's really no proposed work on the old >> work on the driveway. Okay, I want And the just a double check the the
coverage increases that you have here. So, you have 641 increase of structure in the outer aura. I'm assuming that's the studio. Is that correct? And that's the outer aura to the
top of the bank. It's hard to keep these these buffer zones straight because you've got so many different uh >> Yes, it's it's either it's either the 50 to 100 of the coastal bank or it's the 100 to 200 of the river
front area. >> front. I think those are both out of the >> Okay, but it's out of jurisdiction. It's not in the jurisdiction of the southern lying VB. >> Yes. >> wetland down there with the with the vernal pool. >> Right. Yes, even the septic system is is further than 100.
>> Okay, and then there's an additional What is it? 20 27 square feet? Uh hardscape pools, walkways, driveways. Is that the additional strip of driveway? Is that What are they accounting for that? >> Yes. >> Okay.
Got it. Okay, thank you. Just wanted to clarify. Anybody anything else? Bob? >> Hi, how are you? Uh yeah, I agree with Paul about this this mitigation strip in the meadow. I think that should be removed and maybe
focus on the invasives around the uh the current cottage area. Um and then I noticed these plantings um to the south uh by the by the driveway where the
three cars are. Um I see JV three JV, but I would like at the planting schedule and I don't see JV. >> I did not bring a hard copy of the landscape plan. Um I can just address
that if if there's a either a typo or an in inconsistency. >> Okay, and but those plants are mitigation plants as well going in on the on the on the in the south area there, too? >> I think those were just more of an enhancement. Um there's nothing particularly
requiring those as mitigation. >> Okay. >> You actually have five JVs cuz you have two um behind I think the cottage. >> Yeah, on the on the mitigation on the mitigation planting plan, there
are five and the key says VD but it's listed as June Juniperus virginiana and that's Eastern Red Cedar. So, that probably is what JV is. >> Could be, yeah. >> Yeah, we >> Well, but it has VDs up in that mitigation that's down lower
that we had mentioned maybe you know, we had questioned it. >> Yeah, so there's a discrepancy there, yeah. >> There's four VDs down there. >> Yeah. >> So, we just need to know what if Thank you for pointing that out cuz I meant to.
>> And again, those four VDs are >> Yep, so that needs to be added. >> Those four VDs are on the planting schedule. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> So, I'm sure that five is a JV, not VD. >> And and and while you're doing that, the
site plan has proposed trees. There are five listed but it says typical of seven. So, just that needs to be so that everything's aligned, same with the species, the number and the location.
It's confusing. >> We'll we'll make sure everything's coordinated along with any changes that we do for the planning. >> Yeah, I I noticed as well as the invasives that Paul mentioned uh your black locust, autumn olive
uh wild rose on the south end of where the cottage is. So, if you made a sweep of that whole area uh probably the soil was disturbed at one time and then these invasives grew in. Uh but um that would be it would be excellent if
you could wipe out those invasives and turn the turn the area into a you know all natural vegetation. Native vegetation. Thank you. >> All right. Anything else? All right. So, obviously you have to
come back to us. Um What would We have June 24th, July 8th, July 22nd, then we get into August. >> There's someone online that has their hand >> Oh, I see uh Oh, I see that. Okay.
Lauren, go ahead. >> Thank you. This is Lauren Archamano from the Chatham Conservation Foundation. And I would like to bring to the Cons Com attention that this property is um surrounded on three sides by our
property. And the proposed steps down to the um marsh are of a concern to us. So, we would like to request a pre-construction meeting. >> Okay, but the steps are on their property.
Correct? >> Well, yes, they are, but they have an easement over our property to continue down to the marsh. So, we would like to be included in a pre-construction hearing to avoid any >> All right. We're we're actually not at that point. I'll put it
down, but we have to They're coming back for us to hear again. So, we're not at the point of doing an order or any of that, but um >> I'm I would like to be on the record requesting the meeting. Thank you.
>> I am noting it, and were you aware that there you're going over their property with those steps? >> It seem It appears they end right at the property line. >> Okay. >> And then
>> You can't talk when you're not >> I'm sorry, the steps do not end at the property line as they do have an easement over our property. >> Okay, he hadn't Lauren, he hadn't finished talking. So, could I just ask that you let him speak and then you can speak again?
I'd appreciate it. Thank you. So, were you aware you think there's they're not over their property? >> Per our survey plan, I'm showing they do end at at the property. Um, but you know, I think >> Yeah, I mean it's not
>> I I'll add once we get to a point of an order, we will add Lauren that you're part of the pre-construction meeting. Um, Lauren, do you have anything I mean, maybe his plans are not you're thinking they're not correct?
>> I'm not saying that. I >> No, I know. I'm asking cuz you said it >> No, thank you. We just wish to be on the record that we would like to have a pre-construction meeting. Thank you. >> Sure. I just want to make sure that they understand what the issue might be.
So, I think with she has presented it and if you could look into that, I'd appreciate it. Um, just so that we take care of anything that might be an issue before we even get to a pre-construction meeting cuz at that point we've accepted
the plan and we've accepted everything and um I mean, she can still be a part of pre-construction meeting, but I'd like it also to be sure that if there were an issue that it's been dealt with before we do an order, not
at the at that meeting. Um, so if you could make sure and maybe if you could please mark on the plan where the easement is that
is for CCF. I'd very much appreciate it. Bradford, do you know? >> Um it doesn't have uh the easement written on there, but you can see the path continues here, this 4-ft path. Um so, I
think we would just clarify that there's an easement. >> Oh. Oh, where it says 4-ft path? >> Yeah. >> That's Okay. >> [clears throat] >> I was not understanding where it was cuz we've been talking about steps and I didn't see any steps down there.
Okay, so if we could mark something >> Okay. >> uh that would be very appreciated and maybe even reach out to CCF um to make sure that their concerns are
met ahead of time. I'd appreciate it because I think that that would serve everybody best. Um anybody have anything else? >> Yeah, I just I'm sure it's in his mind as a contractor. Uh
you know, for him to understand cuz we're saying, "Okay, invasives here, here, down the steps, over by the So, if if we're trading the mitigation area for invasive species eradication, it's the same square footage minimum. >> Oh, yes.
>> Okay, so I'm not I don't want you to think that we're, you know, trading you're going to be doing the whole, you know, property here of invasive species control. So. >> Well, the more the better, but I agree. >> minimum of the same. >> Right. Absolutely.
All right, so let's go back to We have meetings. >> Yeah. >> June 24th, July 8th, July 22nd, then we're into August, which I assume you'd rather not get into. So, >> I think we can review the invasives
[clears throat] and landscape plan and the stair question. Um I think we're fine with even just June 24th. It's fine. >> Okay. Then we can schedule you for June 24th. And if we could have a motion, please.
>> I move that we continue 1174 Old Queen Anne Road to the meeting on June 24th, 2026. >> Second. >> Bob. >> I. >> Eric. >> I. >> Paul. >> I. >> Janet. >> I. >> And I say I. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Bradford next.
>> Next up is a notice of intent for 42 Old Harbor Lane for Peter Harris, map 16I parcel 20-MD2. Uh DEP number 10-3768. Uh this was for a raise and reconstruct guest house with patio and stairs and
connecting to existing septic system. The applicant has requested a continuance to Ja- June 24th, 2026. >> Okay. >> I move that we continue the certificate of compliance for lot 59 Old Field Bend
Road. >> No, it's a No, this is 42 Old Harbor Lane. >> oh, sorry. Old Harbor. >> NOI. >> I move that we continue 42 Old Harbor Lane to the meeting on June 24th, 2026. >> Second.
>> Bob. >> I. >> Eric. >> I. >> Paul. >> I. >> Janet. >> I. >> And I say I. We snuck that one in on you. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> even have it on me. >> No, I didn't. >> Yeah, cuz it had been left off and I asked Crystal to add it, so she did on
Monday. And then they asked for continuance, so hence why we're where we are. Go ahead for Bradford. >> Next is a uh request for certificate of compliance for lot 59 Old Field Bend Road, uh aka 146 Old Field Bend Road.
This is for Mark Plansky, map 14J parcel 59 DEP number 10-588. It was for the construction of a single-family dwelling sewage disposal system and garden wall. The applicant has requested a
continuance to July 8th, 2026. >> Okay, if we can have a motion for >> Can I ask why this they ask for another continuance on this? >> They are still figuring out escrow agreements on who's going to pay for
which portion of everything. >> [clears throat] >> I move that we continue the certificate of compliance for lot 59 Oldfield Bend Road. >> Second. >> To >> Oh, sorry. >> July 8th, 2026. >> Second. >> Bob. >> Aye.
>> Eric. >> Aye. >> Paul. >> Aye. >> Janet. >> Aye. >> And I say aye. Okay, the next, please. >> Next is a request for certificate of compliance for eight Windmill Lane. This is for Howard and Igna Walkner.
Map 16A [clears throat] parcel 22-H9 DEP number 10-3506. This is proposed addition to an existing dwelling and deck. I reviewed this
COC and did not have any issues. >> Excellent. Anybody have any questions? >> Yeah, well, >> Go ahead. >> if we're talking about that planting on the east side of the lawn, there was well, some of them were eaten
by deer, but there was a dead one in there. And it looked like the one died and was pulled out probably over time. I think they should at least replace any dead ones that were in the plan before they get a COC. >> And I had a I had a question on the on
the lawn. You have a really lush lawn there and I'm just wondering whether that was uh irrigated before Bradford or whether that was a initially a Cape Cod lawn or what kind of lawn it was. I know I know
they're using fertilizers and pesticides on it. Um but it is irrigated as well. >> It's a Hilton lawn on a sandy beach. >> [laughter] >> I've never heard that that phrase [clears throat] and I like that. I went, "Wow."
Um could we add to the COC that the two shrubs need to be replaced? >> Yeah, we can uh >> And I don't know what we do about the
irrigation. >> Well, you have to have the original orders of conditions, I guess, or plan. >> they didn't include them. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You need your We'll have the information on the irrigation by then. >> Okay. So, could we continue this to the
next meeting then? Would I think that would be plenty of time for them to replace plantings and address the irrigation. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> I move that we continue the certificate
of compliance for 8 windmill lane to the meeting on June 24th, 2026. >> Second. >> Uh >> Aye. >> Eric. >> Aye. >> Paul. >> Aye. >> Janet. >> Aye. >> And I say aye. Next, please. >> Next is a
request for certificate of compliance for 560 Orleans Road uh for 560 Orleans Road LLC, uh map 16 Oh my gosh, map 13J parcel 7-G20,
uh DP number 10-3749. Uh this is for proposed dock reconstruction. Um my only recommendation on this one would be to uh include a condition to um have upland storage of
the seasonal float and ramp. Um so just outside of the flood zone. >> Right. And I think we can add that to the COC. Anybody else have any comments? >> I move that we approve the certificate of compliance for 560 Orleans Road as
written. >> Second. >> Bob? >> I. >> Eric? >> I. >> Paul? >> I. >> Janet? >> I. >> And I say I. Okay, next, please. >> Next is uh minutes to be approved for
April 22nd, 2026. >> Okay, does anybody have any modifications to the minutes? My my computer died. [laughter] Anyway, um I didn't see anything. Did anybody else? Nope. Okay, so if we can
>> that we approve the minutes from 2020 April 22nd, 2026. >> Uh you can second it. >> I can second it. >> [laughter] >> Bob? >> I. >> Eric? >> Abstain. >> Paul? >> I. >> Janet? >> I.
>> And I say I. One more motion. >> I move that we close the hearing. >> Second. >> Bob? >> I. >> Eric? >> I. >> Paul? >> I. >> Janet? >> I. >> And I say I, and we're out.
>> Not bad.