WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=7dvXM396kUU

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: 7dvXM396kUU):
- 00:02:49: Meeting Opening, Recording Notice, Attendance, and Agenda Overview
- 00:05:38: Bylaw Amendment Discussion: Water Supply Emergencies & Private Wells
- 00:22:38: Affordable Housing Tax Exemption Proposal by Brian Phillips
- 00:44:11: Revisiting Acceptance of Bequest from Priscilla Ford Estate
- 00:48:26: Additional Funding: Expansion and Renovation of Active Living Center
- 00:57:43: General Finance Committee Report and Speaking Assignments Update


Part: 1

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Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the March 24, 2026 meeting of the Chattam Finance Committee. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, including

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the use of an AI note takingaking app, please noteify the chair. No one. Pursuant to Governor Healey's March 2825 signing uh of the order can uh extending certain CO 19 measures adapted during the state of emergency. This meeting of

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the Chattam Finance Committee is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings is provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling

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508-945-4410. again 508-945-4410 and enter a conference ID 181231120 pound sign 181231120 pound sign or one may join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams to the link in the posted agenda. We will post a

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record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible and we will momentarily do an attendance check. Uh but we will be covering off some of the last articles to come before us uh in advance of this year's town meeting

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uh and um do a little mopping up after that. So, uh, attendance, Joanne Sprag >> here, >> Christian Andreas >> here, >> Tommy Don >> here, >> Eric Whitley >> here, >> and John Papalardo >> here. >> Present. Okay. And I know that Tracy's

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absent and Barb is absent, so we have a quorum. Uh, so let's begin, shall we? Uh, Carrie, would you like to >> Sure. >> read us in. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. Um so first on the agenda we

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have a citizens petition. Um it's a bylaw amendment for chapter 261 water supply emergencies by Gloria Hicks. Um and she is here to go over this petition with you all. And then we have a couple

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of um another petition on here Brian by Brian Phillips. >> Yep. And then we also have um the revisit of the acceptance of bequest from the estate of Patricia Ford for the property at 63 George Wright of Road which uh Gloria McFersonson is here

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online to go over that with us and then um just a couple of other things that we'll be going over. >> Yep. All right. So let's start with the proposed bylaw amendment chapter 261 water supply emergencies. Miss Hicks, welcome. >> Good afternoon. Gloria Hicks, Meeting

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House Road. Um, this town warrant article is about water conservation um and the responsibility of all of us in protecting our most valuable and vital resource, our water. Our summer months have become increasingly warmer and drier and consistently every year,

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which necessitates a water ban and restrictions every summer. Rob Failey came to the select board last week and reported that we are in a level two drought right now. Although expected to recharge, nothing is guaranteed. Brewster reported little faith in a

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recharge even with our snow and rain. Thus far, although all of our water con water comes from the same aquifer, some treated for public water and some for private wells, it is not environmentally logical anymore to continue to do

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business as usual. Our choices now are to handwater uh or water with uh installed irrigation systems which no longer can be installed or to put in a private well. The restrictions for handwatering and

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irrigation systems are by use days and hours. None exists for wells. Chattam is changing. Large developments and massive homes are being built in Chattam and all with wells. Any citizen can put in a well, but if it defies

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logic for all of us to do that in terms of conservation, we invite Massave into our homes for lowflow showerheads, faucet diffusers, and lowcapacity toilets to help conserve water. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts

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Water Management Act program model bylaw includes options for regulating private wells. Towns are adopting these by law by bylaw changes. Hamilton, Wenham, and Rentham have done so. The Department of Public Works director

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of Rentham feels calls all the time from other towns about how to do and change these bylaws. To continue to simply ask private well users to honor water bands and restrictions is no longer environmentally sound or logical. Wellwater doesn't even have to be

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tested. Some don't even know what they're drinking. Microplastics, fertilizers, industrial chemicals, and bacteria are being returned to the earth as well. I am asking for your support with this warrant article to include private wells in our conservation

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efforts. It is simply the right thing to do. Let's make Cadam the gold standard for other communities on Cape Cod in conserving and protecting our water. It's time to move forward with this initiative. Thank you for your consideration. >> Very good. Thank you. Uh questions from

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Miss X Eric, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for coming. Um, I guess my my main question and and I would say concern about the article as you've presented it is I guess

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I'm not totally clear that the issue with the um water restrictions that the town of Chattam puts on is based on the the aquaor and the levels in that. it I I understand it to be more in our pumping, treating and storage capacities

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and then the usage from there through the town system. I guess is there data that's showing that the issue is actually in the aquafer as far as the the levels being down and not just in our capabilities as in our town water

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system and the public side. >> Well, the point that I was making is that all of our water comes from the aquifer. um uh and 80% I think of irrigation is for uh 80% of our water usage is for

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irrigation. So the problem that I see with the wells is everybody in town could put in a well um that is going to affect the aquifer that is going to absolutely affect um the amount of water and the quality of water that we have.

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Um anybody can put in a well. I could put in one now, but I I choose not to do that. That is absolutely going to affect our aquifer. And it's true of Cape Cod in general. >> Okay. I guess just to just to follow up and not to

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belabor the point, I'd say thinking that and knowing that are two different things. And I I I really think that the the reason that my understanding of the reason that we have the uh limitations on our water use from the town has been

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directly related to our capabilities of pumping, treating, and storing it. I don't think I've seen anything that says that the aquifer itself is is not available. And when someone puts in a well, particularly for irrigation, um, you know, yes, they're pulling from

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that same aquafer, but they're, in my understanding, they're not impacting the water the town's capability for for pumping, storage, and and treatment. So, that that's that's where I am on this. >> The only thing I would add to that is is um well, I'm sympathetic to the petition

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article. Um, to your point, though, I will note that Dr. Duncin uh has come before this committee a number of times over the last decade asserting that the uh the issue isn't um depletion of the of the aquifer it's

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the extraction >> and that's and that's again that that's the point I think I'm trying to make. Yes. >> Yeah. So um okay >> if I may I guess please I guess >> it is would be inevitable if everybody put in wells to not affect the aquifer.

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That's where everything comes from. And the the uh DPW in Hamilton explained it to me. He said it's like a swimming pool. Some people drink from the top, some people drink from the bot uh the middle, but everybody drinks from the bottom. So if everybody puts in a well,

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you it would have to change the aquaor. >> Well, let me let me let me hit these two members first. Kristen, please, and then Joanne. Well, thank you for bringing this forward. I think that um we do all we all draw from the aquifer. We just have different sized straws. You can think of

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it that way. Um we're at the bottom of the lens here in Chadam. And because we've been in sequential years of drought, we are sucking the bottom of our wells, which is why we've had to put multi-million dollar treatment systems in for manganesees

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um and have these uh you know, water conservation um guidance and requirements. And so I think that um this is a a good thing to do. I think that um it's sort of become the those who can afford irrigation wells and

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those who can't. And um it doesn't seem that when we're talking about water, which is our most precious resource that we all have a right to and should all be fairly um have access to it and use for

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our most important uh purposes, which is survival uh in our drinking water. I think this only makes sense. Thank you. >> Thank you, Christian. Joanne, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, the question

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that comes up to me is more to the wells are private investment of the the household that puts in a well, how do we have the right to restrict them now? And maybe we do. That's my question. Do we

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have the right to restrict the usage of a well that was privately paid for? I can help you with that. The state of Massachusetts lists in their bylaws, their uh action plan that every the towns do have a right to change their

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bylaws. Three towns have already done it. Womtham and Hamilton. >> Okay. So >> that's why I did the article. That's the only way to change it is by changing the bylaw. So I'm saying well the f in other

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words the people in the future you could make a law like that we could change the the procedure but the people who've already made that investment and not knowing about this new restriction. Are we able to will we be able to to do

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that? >> Well sure because they're using the water. It isn't for future. It's for right now. Our summers are completely different. Um, and it's about the water that we're using today. We don't know what we're going to be using 15 years from now, but we do know what we're

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using today. And we're already in a level two drought. That's just that's not going to get better. >> Thank you. And I I still do have a question about the private investment. >> Yeah, please. >> No. Well, oh, >> it's just lingering question. >> Oh, okay. Understood.

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>> Not satisfied yet. >> Understood. Gloria, can I just come back to a comment that you made about the state of Massachusetts and these three communities? What specifically was permitted by the state? You you referenced bylaws, but I'm assuming >> the state leaked open the option for

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municipalities to change their bylaws to include private wells and water restrictions and bans. >> Okay. >> Um I'm happy to leave three copies of the towns with you that I that I pulled. Um >> No, I believe you. We're good. um the state it was um I actually have it in my

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folder. I think I said it um it's a water management act program model bylaw and they did they did state it. >> So it's under the umbrella of the state but then towns are actually you know um are changing their bylaws

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>> because of of the circumstances that we're in. And >> how again I'm sympathetic to the to the to the concept. How how does it get policed >> past the thing? How but how do we >> there any kind of an enforcement regimen? Are we relying on goodwill or

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>> nothing is policable? Um I handwater. You don't know that I'm out in the backyard, you know, spraying off my house or doing my walk or my deck or whatever. Um it's the same for everybody. Nobody can be policed. So the private well isn't any different than the rest of us.

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Okay, >> Mr. Chair, >> please. >> Uh, thank you. Do we have a copy of that bylaw in in our backup material? I don't remember seeing it. The Massachusetts the Massachusetts law >> MGL. >> Well, it's it's excuse

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>> it's a model. >> I don't think it would be a bylaw for the state. It probably >> I'm happy laws. >> I'm happy to leave a copy with with uh the >> I'd have to say that. Yes. >> All right. Thank you. Okay. Further comments or questions,

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John or Tracy? Oh, Tracy's joined us. Hello, Tracy. Um, make sure. >> Hello. >> Uh, John, you've got your hand up, please. >> Yeah, thanks. Um, guess this falls in line with the

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enforcement question. Um, I'm wondering how many homes in Chadam are not on town water, but rather use a private well for uh all all of their water service to their property. >> For some reason, I remember the number

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1600, but I'm not I'm not sure about that to be honest with you, >> Eric. And >> so, >> John, I think Erica wants to jump in on this. I I think if I understood John's question, it was for all of their water. So, I think there's there's probably a

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lot of irrigation wells that could be somewhere in that range. I don't know what the number is. I'd be really surprised if the number of homes in Chadam that use all of their water, their drinking water, >> um as to be in that 1,600 range. That would be

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a lot. And and I'm in a lot of lot of houses. >> But, um yeah, there's there's no way to police it. that information I I do not have and I don't know that anybody could could get that to you. >> Sorry, John. >> You good, John?

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>> Yeah. Thanks. >> Okay, Kristen, please. >> Thank you. I just want to make the comment that um back when we passed fertilizer regulations, there's some similarity here in that policing and enforcement

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um is extremely difficult. Um but it's also um by passing such a regulation or bylaw, it does allow the town to um engage in some outreach and education and uh water conservation is

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really all about that. I know that um DPW did go there were people driving around doing enforcement during water conservation day. So, it's not impossible when irrigation systems are going off in the middle of the day, which is like the worst time to water

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anyway. Um, but I think that there is um there's probably lots of regulations and rules on the books that never get fully enforced, but I think there's an advent and advantage um from the educational standpoint and to let everybody know that they should be thinking about this

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very important resource. >> Moral persuasion. Well, the fact that there are no regulations or restrictions or any mandates for what people are drinking. I mean, unless people have their wells tested, they don't they don't even know that. They don't know what they're

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drinking. I mean, that's that's frightening to me. >> It would it would be interesting to to have sort of a comprehensive data suite. It would probably take some time and certainly some money to develop it. But it would be kind of really interesting to know of of the properties

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um you know kind of sources and uses and what frankly an analysis of all that with AI through AI could could generate in terms of understanding of leaks and consumption patterns and things like

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that. But I may be dreaming Christian. Well, I think there is a lot of um general data out there about how much water usage is used outside. Um and it's it's really I mean across the country we know it's it's a ridiculous amount of

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water drinking water that's put out onto our >> onto our lawns and um you know obviously here in Cape Cod we do we have one aquifer. It's only recharged by by rain and snow melt in the winter months not in the summer. So, it can rain all summer, but that's not going to do too

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much um to recharge the aquifer. And when we have backtoback years of drought, um we're just behind the eightball and our our groundwater wells are are quite low. I mean, we've heard DPW has been um working on water conservation for years. This is not um

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something that's unique just to those who are on uh town water. I think water conservation is always a good idea. So, I'm in favor of this. >> Thank you. So, interesting. I was looking into this separately a couple weeks ago for a different purpose. Uh

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but there was some USGS data, excuse me, I came across about 350 million gallons per day of water recharges the combined Sagamore and Monoy aquifer systems at the water table. Most water about 65% discharges at the coast and most of the remaining

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water about 28% discharges into streams. A total of about 24.9 millions of gallons per day or about 7% is withdrawn for water supply. Most pump water is returned to the hydraologic system as return flow creating a state of near

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mass balance in the aquifer which I found interesting. That was u USGS data or information. Um all right any further comments or questions? Okay. There being none, I will take a motion to support the petition article

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to see if the town will amend to vote chapter 261 by adding the words and users of private wells drawing water from the same aquifer from which the town's public water system is withdrawn. >> So moved. >> A second.

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>> All right. Uh Joanne, support. >> No. >> Uh Kristen, >> yes. >> Tommy, >> yes. >> Eric, >> no. Uh, John Pepardo, >> yes. >> Tracy,

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>> yes. >> And the chair supports. So, one, two, three, four, five, two, two. All right. Thank you, Miss Hicks. Oh, >> yeah, that'd be great. Thank you very much. >> Did the selectman take a position on

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this to me? >> Yeah, I didn't. I don't have my I don't have anything. Carrie, did we have a Thank you. That's terrifying. I'll circulate it to the to the uh to the committee. Carrie, do we have a read on what the select board did? >> Um is tonight. >> Oh, okay. Uh all right. So, now we have a citizens

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petition article uh acceptance of local option MGL chapter 59 section 5 for the affordable housing tax exemption for yearround rental properties being presented today by Brian Phillips. Mr.

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Phillips, please. Brian Phillips, 374 Leans Road. Um, hi. >> Hello. So, um, I guess my whole, uh, thing behind this was, you know, to try and create, uh, affordable housing with the infrastructure we already have. Um,

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I didn't come up with this. I was at the Orleans Town meeting where they passed this. Um, so I took that article they passed and I brought it to Mr. Lichfield and then he typed it up and um here I am now. >> All right. Would you like to explain

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yourself and the your petition now that you're here? >> Well, um so I guess a couple of things. Um so it's creating affordable housing with the infrastructure we already have. Um so one of the concerns I did, um voice to Mr. to Lichfield was, you know,

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the 40B uh affordable housing rates, the AMI, I think are a little high for the area with the 110 AMI being like $3,000 a month for um like a one-bedroom apartment. So, he put in here that um you know that the select board can come up with with the rates of rent to make

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it um you know, better, more suitable for you know, this area and the and the people that we have living here year round. Um uh I know there's another the lease to locals uh thing going on, but that doesn't reward uh the people that

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already rent to yearround uh people. Um which I think is important. Um, and then, um, so there's the 12, you know, the 12-month rentals that that this obviously does. And I was hoping that it could also, you know, maybe at a lesser

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tax exemption do um, what used to be done a lot was like the 9 month, you know, there's the summer rentals and then they use the like the, you know, they used to rent in the offseason, you know, nine months out of the year, which was an important like gap rental for uh, young people and I I've heard like visiting nurses possibly and things like

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that. Um, so that's really all I have. >> Okay. Can you just sort of briefly describe what >> Can you briefly describe um what precisely

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the proposed article would achieve? what its notional goal would be and the framework for it for the benefit of the committee and for anybody who's watching the meeting or will watch the meeting who may who may be a little less familiar with the topic than you.

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>> Um what do you mean it's to promote uh people renting to year round people >> and if I'm reading the brief correctly it would just it would provide a form of a tax break to landlords. Yes sir.

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>> Uh in the form of what? A credit against their tax bill or carry >> an exemption. You qualify for an exemption that has to be processed through the assessor's office. >> Okay. And the select board would set that exemption level. >> Um

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>> yes, >> I would assume so. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Uh all right. >> Set the the rate of the exemption. Mhm. >> Okay. Uh, all right. Questions to Eric.

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>> Uh, thank you. Um, so I I in reading through the requirements to qualify, you know, some of them are things we've seen before, you know, the AMI and the 200% and things like that. Thomas, what is the definition of affordable

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housing rate of rent? in you have any information on specifics on either where that comes from or numbers or how how is that derived um well for the 40b um I think it's it's like state mandated on the area median income um which I rough you know it's

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like roughly 100% MI is roughly 100,000 and it's like 30% of that but my concern is that those rates are not affordable and that's why I voice my concern to uh Mr. Lichfield and the um the select board would get to set those rates that would be more uh accommodating for the

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people that live here around and the jobs they do. >> Um I think I don't know if you were answering for the the um >> I don't know if I'm >> AMI I was more asking about this the bullet that's that reads the affordable

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housing rate of rent. I don't I just where what is that? What deres that number? Where does that come from? >> I think it comes from the state, but we do have Gloria McFersonson on. Um maybe she knows. >> Oh, good. >> Um >> Gloria, you uh you there?

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>> Hi everyone. Um could you summarize what you're asking of me? And please know that I haven't prepared for this um discussion. No, I I mean I think from the 10,000 foot view, I think I'm sympathetic to what's being suggested

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here. I just not it's I'm just not clear at all on details implementation, who sets what rates. There are several things listed that Eric referenced. The affordable housing rate of rent uh will be set by the select board. the

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maximum annual occupant household income. Um, there just seems like there's a lot of meat on the bone and I don't have a lot of clarity on what we're being offered to eat. >> So, at least I can provide a little

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insight into the rent. So, rents are typically set at um no more than 30% of a household's gross income and that would include because it's a rental their utility costs. So rent plus

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utilities can't be more than um 30% of gross income and then we can extrapolate that number out from um the area median incomes. Um I just don't have that data right now. I wasn't really prepared to answer this. >> No understood. I appreciate that. >> I do have a little bit more information,

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please. So um right here it says in the law the property tax exemptions shall be for an amount determined by the city or town provided however that the amount shall not be more than the tax

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sorry otherwise due on the parcel based on the full and fair assessed value multiplied by the square footage of the housing units rented and occupied by a person or persons whose household income is not more than the income limit set

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pursuant to clause divided by the total square footage of a structure located on the parcel. It's it's a quite a bit of information. Assessment of property seeking an exemption under this section. If by an in income approach to value shall assume

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fair market rent for all units. The property owner seeking the exemption shall submit to the town or city any documentation this the city or town deems necessary including but not limited to a signed lease and proof of the occupying person or person's household income to confirm the

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eligibility of the property or the exemption under this section. >> Well, that clears it up. Sorry, there was just a little bit in there. >> Um Joanne, please. >> Yes. Thank you. >> And then we'll go to Tracy. I would I

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would find it difficult to vote for an article like this without knowing uh the loss of tax revenue, how it affects the other tax the rest of us taxpayers and the cost of enforcement which I think

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would be uh you'd have to really be careful and of how you enforced it and make sure you had the personnel to do it. How much is it going to cost more for that enforcement personnel than it does right now? So,

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uh, as as it stands right now, I don't think I could vote for this, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. Thank you, Joan. Tracy, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my question is, who does the who does the actual exemption benefit? the property

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owner and then are we just hoping that it extends to the tenants or is it for the property owner to encourage them to rent to for affordable housing? >> Brian, I mean

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>> I I think it's both. Okay, Carrie. Uh yeah. So, if I'm reading this correctly, it's a benefit to um the person renting. So, they could go in and rent a um place at an affordable rate um not more than

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200% of the area median income. So, at an affordable rent rate and then um the property owner gets the tax exemption for renting the property at a lower rate.

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if that's making sense. >> So I guess again I'm sympathetic to the idea but the devil's in the details. The select poor is responsible for setting amongst other things household uh income limits not to exceed 200% of the AMI area

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median income. Is that for qualifying for a tenant or >> the landlords? Right. So, yeah. So, you got to be >> Well, I assume it's one or the other. >> It's qualify for the tenant. >> Okay.

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>> Uh Joanne, please. And then Eric. >> Yes, Mr. Chair. Do we have any idea of what the enforcement cost would be? >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Eric Lynch, then John. And it it may have may have been already spelled out, but the when the this

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exemption that it looks like the selectmen um have the over purview of is the expectation is that it's like a full exemption or a portion of the taxes or what they get to set the rate. So whatever

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is deemed equitable and I don't necessarily have that answer. So it's got to be enough to encourage or you know but not too much. >> Yeah. So the language here reads the select port is responsible for setting the maximum amount of the exemption which cannot be in excess of the tax due

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on the parcel. >> Uh Mr. Pepalardo please. >> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um >> you're welcome. I think um I mean as as I read this really the proposal is asking town

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meeting to authorize a framework but most of the important decisions and discussion come later as evidenced by the questions that my fellow committee members have asked. Um I think Joanne asked what what the estimated

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annual tax expenditure uh drop off could be under this participation. Um, you know, how many units does the sponsor realistically expect this to affect in the first one to three years? That'd be a question I'd want to understand.

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Do we have the ability to figure out if uh this would create new year-round affordable rentals rather than subsidized units already operating that way? M >> not that one's better or worse, but um and then the whole question of enforcement, verifying rent levels,

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tenant income eligibility, and ongoing compliance. Um and then the possibility of change of use once the property becomes qualified. So, I'm generally supportive of trying to help

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the the renting side of the broader discussion for housing in Chadam. Um, and I could actually support the article, um, understanding that, uh, a lot of work is yet to be filled in and a lot of questions yet to be answered.

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>> All right. Thank you, John. Uh, Ann Ryan, please. >> Hi. I would just like some clarification on if a property is a rental property and it's owned by an LLC or a corporation and how is this going to affect the

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tenant? I think I've heard that possibly because that ownership entity wouldn't be um eligible for the the uh the credit that the rent could actually be higher. So, I would wonder if how many

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properties in Chadam are in that status with tenants versus, you know, owned by individuals that would be available because I think that that could have an effect on, you know,

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how many individuals would actually be negatively affected by this. >> All right. Thank you, Ann. Further comments or questions? Joanna, looks like you got your finger on the trigger. >> Just to to wrap up my thoughts, it an

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article for us to give approval to for town meeting should have all of this information with it from my point of view. So therefore, without everything that goes with it, we're talking about a tax exemption which affects the whole uh

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numbers of our taxpayers. So, I I could not vote for this because there's just not enough backup information or not enough qu of our questions are answered. >> Thank you, Joanne. Christian, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to say

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that I um I appreciate the um the article proposal and that I I've al often thought about this too like let's come up with all whatever incentives we can to have more affordable whether it's

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uh the small letter A or the the big letter A. How do we um entice property owners to provide affordable housing to folks? And so I think the concept's great. Um I too am concerned about all

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the details. Um I guess if we we knew if this were to be passed that all of that would be worked out by the select board. Um or maybe they wouldn't do anything at all. I don't know if this compels them to do anything. Um, but I do like the concept of it

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>> and and I will point out that that uh in the work of the finance committee's attainable affordable housing working group back in January 2020 that one of the recommendations that the that the working group presented to the finance committee which in turn endorsed it and

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presented it to the select board was that we figure out a program uh to rent to give a tax uh concession to people who do rent uh year round. And I think I don't know if Gloria is still on the horn, but I think Gloria, if I'm not

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misremembering from six years ago that that Province Town uh has a provision that is akin to that. Uh am I remembering that correctly or >> you are? Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh all right, Eric, please.

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>> Um I I'll be quick. I I just want to kind of echo what everyone else is saying and I I'm very supportive of the concept. I think it's I think it makes makes sense. I think it's something that we've been a little bit beating the drum about um with with where maybe where the RTE was going and and those kind of

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things. And you know and I do acknowledge what John is saying that that you know the the it does empower the the select board to to to take this and make it into something I think. So that that being said, I I I think my

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understanding of what our role is in either endorsing this or not endorsing this from the finance committee is I believe should be for this type of an article coming as Joanne is saying from from the impacts of the finances on the on the town and there isn't enough

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information here for me to support it the way it is. I think you know it's it's I think it's a great concept. I'm not sure that it shouldn't maybe come from a different place. see that this the the select board that has maybe some more of the details already hashed out

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some of the questions that have been brought up and and defined so that there is something that says you know within a range of of what the impact is on the rest of the on the rest of the community and you know how many places this impacts and I and I think the the point that John made about whether that's it's

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really going to spur new opportunities for people you know wanting to create rental spaces which I think would be fantastic versus, you know, kind of, you know, um, just propping up some of the ones that are already there. So, for that reason,

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I'm I'm not going to support this, but I I I think it's the right concept to be talking about and and and maybe, you know, uh, beef up a little bit and and and kind of bring back to the town would be would be kind of my my position on this.

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>> Can I um, so this is just uh, you know, like John said, this is the framework for the select board to come up with. That's why I don't have all these numbers cuz they're not for me to determine. Um, and like the lease to locals program where it does the, you know, whatever it is, $5,000 to start off but doesn't continue. Like this

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would be a follow through on a program like that where it's you got the, you know, the upfront money and then it's, you know, the continue to rent uh year round because of something like this even though, you know, I don't know how much money it's really going to be with the tax exemptions because taxes are so low.

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>> Okay. And Joanne, please. >> Just one last time. seems like too many times this year uh this the finance committee has received these good ideas and then we're expected to look up all of the background information for it and

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find out the exact cost when that should be part of the proposal. We should look at a finished proposal with all the cost what it would cost the taxpayer and be able to say we recommend it or we don't. But we're getting for instance like the

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RTA I think we're have been expected to figure out what it's going to cost and how it's going to operate when that should have been a completed project for us to look at and say yes or no it's worthwhile. So that's it is a good idea

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but because of those reasons I'm not going to vote for it. >> Okay. All right. Thank you Joanne. And I would observe uh I think congruent to what Eric's observation, we do have a working group of the

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finance committee to evaluate the RTE and consider alternatives that may be um additive to what the RTE may or may not be trying to achieve. Uh but this would seem to me to be something kind of square in that wheelhouse is

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Ptown as we just heard from Gloria apparently has has a program and again six years ago we recommended it go back and revisit that as a working group and maybe that falls into our brief of of recommendations to uh to this to the committee and ultimately to the select

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board. So uh okay let's uh if there are no further questions, comments, anything. All right, I'll take a motion to support please. I'll move it for purposes of discussion if Yeah. Anything else? >> Thank you, Kristen. Is there a second? >> Second.

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>> Tommy Dylan. Thank you. Uh support Joanne. >> No. >> Kristen, >> no. >> Tommy, >> no. >> Eric, >> no. >> Uh John, please. >> No. >> Yes. >> No.

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>> No. Glad I checked. Uh Tracy, please. >> Yes. All right. And the chair does not support uh but to be clear, the chair supports the idea. I just think we need to dial it in a little bit um to to the

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comments that kind of everybody's made. So uh uh one in favor, six opposed. All right, I got one. Thanks. There you go. Well, watch this space. >> Um thank you, Brian. Appreciate that.

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All right. All right. Uh, town meeting article review and vote for place and recommend acceptance of a request the state of Priscilla Ford of the property at 63 George Ryder Road just down the street here. Um, we have previously

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u reviewed this and voted on it. Uh, I think there was a nuance that was presented to the select board that wasn't highlighted to us at the time we made the vote. Uh, so I uh asked that this be put back on the agenda for us to

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to reconsider, perhaps more accurately, more fully consider. Unfortunately, because I just came here straight from the hospital, I was not able to get all my papers and I actually managed to obtain a copy of Patricia Ford's will. um language of which uh is seems to be

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pretty clear about the perspective disposition of the the property at 63 um George Rider Road. Uh Gloria, I think you're here to edify us a little bit on this and again to the extent we can kind of highlight

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what I think was was more emphasized to the select board uh than to us initially around ultimately why do we infer from the language in the lease that selling the parcel

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uh is an appropriate potential outcome. So the discussion at the select board meeting um which I went to shortly after the final meeting or before I can't remember um after and um when the select

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board reviewed this and they reviewed the language in the warrant article and they compared that with the language in um the explanation in my staff report. Um, one of the questions came up about the sale of the property without a deed restriction provided that the um,

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revenues received would be used for affordable housing purposes. So, town council had made that determination that that would meet the, you know, requirements of the bequest with respect to affordable housing purposes, but the select board didn't feel like that

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language was adequately represented in the warrant article. So they actually sent it back to town council to add some language um with the purpose that um the language would ensure that all options would satisfy the request of affordable

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housing purposes um that were available to the select board. So we can retain it, we can sell it with a deed restriction or that last option which would be to sell it without a deed restriction provided that the proceeds were used for affordable housing purposes. So the new version that you

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have um actually shows that additional language. Do you want me to share my screen? I actually have that here if you want to see it. >> Well, I think we we have the new language in our packet. >> Uh >> okay, >> that's provided assuming that everybody has it. But if anybody would like to see

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what have Gloria share a screen, we can certainly do that. But I think everybody should have the language. I guess what Gloria what I'm most interested in I understand having read all this where we are now I guess the question is to what degree and I've heard this from a couple

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people in town um to what degree does it comport understanding the town council has rendered an opinion on it but to what degree does it comport with the language kind of the plain language in the will I'm not an attorney I'm not going to pre pretend to be an attorney but there are

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those in the community who think that the language is pretty clear that this is to be used for attainable affordable housing and not to be simply sold with the funds to go into a into the trust. So, does Glory, do you have or Carrie, do we have the language from the will

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that we can read and >> um I do have the language from the will, but I have to let me find it on my computer. One second and I can put that on the >> Do you Do you want to refine that and then we can move on to the next article

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while you're poking around? >> Yeah, that works for me. >> Okay, everybody good with that? All right, so let's hop to proposed article for the additional funding for the expansion and renovation of the Nomadic

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Center for Active Living. Uh yeah. So um this was >> hoping to find a home >> just in on Friday. Um I think I your cover sheet is an old one I was working on, but it's actually

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posted online as revisit center for active living article. Um and that's just because we don't really have to revote unless you want to. However, originally this was proposed as a capital exclusion because um the estimate we thought that was going to

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come in was going to be much higher than you know we were anticipating it was going to be a lot higher. Um and when the bids came in on Friday, we were pleasantly surprised that they were significantly less than what um we were

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anticipating. So instead of doing a capital exclusion and using free cash and our articles, um, we only need to use $200,000 of free cash instead of the 500,000 that we were

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anticipating in the articles and the 1.3 million capital exclusion. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention. I mean, if you if you want to revote it, you can. However, I just I think you all voted in favor of the original capital

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exclusion. Um, so >> so uh we can we can pull the committee on that. I'm inclined to revote it just based on the new information uh and that our vote actually reflects what's going to be before town meeting rather than something that won't necessarily before

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uh albeit at a lower quantum. Um, was there any kind of financial engineering in in in addition to kind of lower received bids? Was there any kind of financial engineering around anything that helps us take this down

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from the anticipated 1.7 to 200,000 or is that strictly the result of the lower bids? >> That is the result of lower bill bids. I think there was um God I think there was like eight or nine bids. Is that correct?

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>> Would you mind popping up for a second? >> Seven bids that we received and they were all significantly less than what we anticipated. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. >> Good afternoon. Who are you? >> Leah Lacrosse, director of community services. Hello.

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>> Hi. Welcome back. >> Thank you. Seven bids. Yes. >> Uh there was nine submissions in total. >> In the report, it says nine submissions in total. >> Huh. and three apparent low biders. >> And to be clear, this is just the

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construction cost based on the formal contract um drawings that were available to the during the RFP process. >> Correct. >> And not kind of soft cost, buildout cost, FFNA, >> correct >> kind of stuff. >> And that total um Carrie, do you have

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that total with you? five with the soft costs. >> Um I think that was the 5 point >> it was like 5,180 or something like that. That's >> very very close to that.

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>> Looks like that Sefell working group did a great job. >> I think they did. Sure did. >> Great job. >> Um okay, so good news. uh and really validating in this instance the bidden hand approach. I know there have been some comments on by members of the

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committee as to whether or not it might be possible to and this is not necessarily for you two guys but ladies um but whether it might not be possible to use the bidden hand approach uh on other projects on a going forward basis.

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Um >> so Carrie just stabbed you did you want to say something? >> No. >> Are you turning >> I was just shutting my mic off. Sorry, you're turning it on. Okay. Um, good. Well, in that case, uh, good news. Uh, any comments or raised hands? Negative.

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So, let's, uh, let's revote it based on current information. Um, so, don't have an article number. Uh, the proposed article for additional funding for the expansion and renovation of uh, the Center for Active Living at 193 Stony Hill Road. Appropriation of

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$200,000 from free cash rather than the previously anticipated 1.6 7 million. >> Is there a motion to support that? Tommy, thank you. Second, >> second. >> Thank you, Kristen. Uh, support. Joanne, >> yes. >> Kristen, >> yes. >> Tommy,

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>> yes. >> Eric, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Chair votes yes. Seven to nothing. >> Thank you. >> Hopefully, your wanderings may be nearing an end. >> Be so nice. Thank you all for your

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support. >> Yep. Keep up the good work. >> Thank you for everything you're doing. All right. So, Gloria, are you still with us? >> I am. >> Hello. >> I can Let me share my screen and I will

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um put up the language of the well. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Can you guys see that >> generally? Yes. >> Is it up? >> It is up there, Gloria. Yes. I don't know if you can make it a little bit bigger. Maybe. >> Um, sure. Hold on a second. It's already

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at like 125%. Is that better? >> That's good. >> That's good. >> Okay. Great. Now I have to get back to the pertinent section. >> Okay. >> Okay. Do you want me to read it out loud or do you want to >> Sure. >> Okay. So, it's in the second section of

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the will and it says, "I give and deise the property located at 63 George Ryder Road, Chadam, Barnes County, Massachusetts, with the improvements thereon, more particularly described in a deed dated December 27th uh 1979 and recorded with the registry blah blah

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blah uh to the town of Chadam to be held and dedicated to use by the town for such affordable housing purposes as the select board shall shall deem to be in the town's interest. Do not hereby impose any condition or restriction with respect to the preservation of any

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structures or improvements existing on the subject property at the time of this bequest. The town may remove uh renovate, alter or reconstruct any such structures or improvements as it deems appropriate solely in furtherance of its affordable housing objectives. And I

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would say that the sentence that town council is perhaps hinging on in their interpretation um that the town could choose to sell it for money that would then be applied toward affordable housing in another in another location perhaps is that um it's to be held and

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dedicated to use by the town for such affordable housing purposes as the select board shall deem to be in the town's interests. So, the edits to the warrant article don't make any value judgment about what

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um the select board may be recommended to do. All it does is leave open that particular interpretation from town council as an option for the select board to choose if they if they choose to do so. And that would be at a public

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meeting um where there would be um public input taken. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh thank you for the explanation. Some comments or questions? >> Okay. Anything online, John or? No. All

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right. So, a little more clarification then on what the actual article says relative to versus what we originally voted on. Uh, if there are no comments or questions, I'll take a motion to support. >> So moved. >> Second.

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>> Thank you, Joanne. Thank you, Kristen. Uh, okay. Support. Joanne. >> Yes. >> Kristen, >> yes. >> Uh, Tommy, >> yes. >> Eric, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> Tracy is not there. Okay. Uh and the

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chair will support with the clarification. Uh all right. So that's six to nothing on this one. Um all right. I think there's going to be, you know, the for some the inevitable question of kind of intent versus legal interpretation.

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Um as as is always the case. But um all right. So done on that. So then, >> thank you, Gloria. >> Yeah, Gloria, thank you very much. Appreciate it. We can >> see you all later. >> All right, sounds good. Thanks. All

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right, so um speaking assignments. Well, let's do a general update. Um the Kerry was gracious enough to provide some numbers uh last evening for our report. I unfortunately have spent far too much time with doctors and hospitals

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today to even crack the file open yet. But I will do that and start incorporating those numbers uh to the report where she either changed or confirmed various numbers. The the corpus of the uh report is done except for a write up on uh MRSD

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which we got the figures from Carrie again late yesterday afternoon. Um, and we're I'm probably halfway through with the topics of note that I've gleaned from all the inputs that you all and others have been kind enough to provide.

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Um, all of which to say we're probably 3/4ers of the way done, 70% done. Um, and the goal remains and to we'll deliver a report on Friday and get it to you guys for your review. I have a surgical procedure tomorrow.

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Um, so there's a couple of hurdles that I need to clear. Um, but I'm doing the best I can. So, we'll keep plugging away. The, uh, next question is speaking assignments. If there's anything in particular, articles that you do or

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importantly do not want to speak to, please send me a note. Let me know. Uh otherwise once we're done with the report uh and that's submit at the end of the week uh I will begin the assignment process for um

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speaking. We are also going to have a speaker to read the motion for our petition article regarding the RTE. Um I was thinking about getting Andy to do that and then I might speak or somebody else can speak to we can have a couple

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people speak to the RTE. There's I've talked to the moderator. There's no uh there's no strict limit on the number of finance committee members who could speak um in favor of the article on why we voted the way we did in support of it. Um so uh again, if you have some

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interest in in laying out some thoughts to the town meeting on that, please let me know. um comments or questions generally on where we are on the report on any of the stuff. It's open

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there being none. Uh we are tenatively thinking about uh a meeting on Thursday which might be the shortest finance committee meeting in the history of the town of Chadam

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since 1712. Um really kind of focusing on I suppose the report for the warrant. Um, so I think more to come on that. I'm going to go home now and get get back on the

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saddle. Um, and then kind of get as much done as I can tomorrow around the surgery. Um, so I'll try not to do too much afterwards. Um, and I can I guess that's kind of what's going on. So we'll figure out what's happening on Thursday, you know,

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the next 24 hours. But don't be surprised if it's a snow day, but it may not be. >> So, um, all right, no more comments or questions, then I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second.

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>> A reluctant second from Tommy. Joanne, >> yes. >> Christian, >> yes. >> Tommy, >> yes. >> Eric, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Tracy, he is gone. And the chair supports six to nothing on the adjournment. All right. Thank you guys.