##VIDEO ID:2q7c1EbOulA## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] watch the other meeting online and again look at this morning good morning hi I'm Frank massina and this is the January 7 2025 meeting of the chadam historical commission before we start there are a few uh announcements to be made please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter Hereafter for scheduled and On Demand VI viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chairman I don't see anybody notifying the chairman pursuant to Governor Hy's March 29 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extend certain certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General law 3820 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the chattam historical commition is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure the public an anly address the proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while it is in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 945 4410 conference ID 1 95861 795 htag or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this meeting is a live broadcast and simulcast on chatam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for Real Time access we will poost a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible thank you very much March 29th 2020 31st 2025 I guess the governor has to make another decision whether we're going to continue with this uh process okay the first order of business is the roll call Bob leer here Nancy bar here Stephanie Hamilton here Sandy Porter here Janet Tennyson good good good oh Janet I'm sorry Janet is aill uh Robert Stevenson Stevens here thank you Robert Robert is participating online uh and uh the chair is here so Rob Robert uh being we have uh Janet Tennyson one of our members absent as an alternate you will participate I'm sorry all right it's strike one I just read what I'm given okay forget it Robert okay all right let's proceed we have a relatively brief agenda two items um we should be ably get through them very quickly but before we do that we have the minutes of December 17th 2024 it looks like you folks had a long meeting any comments or Corrections additions deletions I'd like to make a motion that we accept the minutes from December 17th okay we have a motion to accept the minutes the second very much got come on any other comments my only comment is you did a great job Annie thank you uh Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Robert yes and the chair AB sayains I was absent thank you very much okay the first application that we have is 34 Linden Tree Lane this application is uh 25001 first one of the year is to be heard in accordance with chapter 158 the demolition delay bylaw uh this application was uh actually changed for what was originally provided so I I believe everybody does have the revision uh to the application a significant reduction in the efforts or the work effort that the applicant was proposing I would just comment this is uh not located in National register District uh and it was completed a Form B and for those in members of the commission or the public were interested in looking at it this is actually an extremely historic house in the sense of its location its history and uh and reading in details you find out this was a a farm and the Genesis of the the uh florist which is now ague over the years from 1950s and uh so it is a quite interesting uh it probably was a a farmhouse for a farm an agricultural setting in that particular place so uh well welcome and why don't you introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about what you're doing we we we to a two-step process here uh first one if you allow us is to proceed to validate the historical sign ific of the house if we determine the house is historically significant then we can get into the application do I don't think you have any comments or anything negative relative to the house being historically significant uh no sir just beautiful old home okay do me a fair just introduce yourself yeah my name is Jack wasart with Coastline construction uh the Builder for the uh repairs and maintenance items that we're looking at here today okay good all right so uh does anybody have any comment Rel to historical significance or other than the fact that it's not okay so we got a motion please I move that we I'm sorry I move that we declare the house historically significant or affirm the historical well I'm sorry Bob no go right ahead go don't toiz no no we do that just as a member for the new members or the recently new members we we used to have extremely long pregnant was is like okay somebody introduced a motion so we figured we're especially when a lot of the Motions are pro forer the vice chair would in no no introduce the motion in positive and then we take it from there Robert sure I move the chat historical commission and fins at the structure located at 39 34 lindry Lane is historically significant because is in whole or part 75 years old or more and is associated with one and more historical persons and economic issues in the political history of the town of chadam second Nancy I second thank you okay all right quick roll call if anybody from the public wishes to speak no Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Robert yes and the chair vote Yes turn it over to you all right thank you so much it was nice to meet youall yesterday on site some of you um as we discussed we are doing a replacement of a princess porch here which is having some water issues we will be proposing a couple of skylights to add some light into the home one here and one right here and then on our elevation over here we've got four window Windows um that are being replaced back on this side don't know why I'm not seeing those sorry right here could you just speak up a little bit more into the microphone sure we're replacing four Windows on this South elevation as well as one window here on the North elevation that is the extent of the exterior Services uh we'll be replacing some sidewall of course as the windows are replaced okay so there's really in terms of the replacement other than we're you're putting the skylights in there's no structure St structure being removed no sir okay all right unknown participant is now joining I'm sorry it's it's just an automated thing for some reason oh okay sorry about that um okay it rather straightforward do we have any comments or questions from members of the board yes n um I just wanted to note um for the record that you say that when you do install skylights you're not going to be removing any um roof sheathing or any of the we will be removing sorry the Shea thing but none of the framing that is correct there are some uh very nice beams and so we're going to be avoiding any of those okay and it looks like you're going to try to reuse any materials you can so I just wanted to say that's great thank you I think one of their neighbors uh Sam shriber at the site visit asked a question just for the record these will be flat window flat skylights correct bulbous correct yep okay what an interesting interesting comment to think about that it's a change but it's really not that you know in terms of the side view okay all right um any other questions I guess not Bob yep uh Chatman historical commission also finds that the proposed work to be done dated December 31st 2024 which is something need to watch out for because there's two plans another one dated December 24th um will not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the commission does not impose a demolition delay I'll second okay any members of the public wish to speak for or against the application okay seeing none uh quick roll call Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Robert yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much thank you apprciate your help okay the next application we have unknown participant is now joining reason say again for reason's joining that's all oh my television does that every now and then and I drives me nuts not join no it it's like it's if you change the volume it's like it's an accessibility thing where you can people were harder hearing which I guess they know I'm harder hearing you know it'll it tells you what they're doing the volume is going up it's a real pain to get rid of it okay uh application uh 25002 128 Pine null Avenue and this is a a full demolition of a cottage it is not in the National register there's no Form B on the property and and partly is because the town the property just just turned 75 years old so it just kind of sneaked into us um so um why don't you introduce yourself Jim and we'll go through it good morning Jamie Norcross representing Steven Liz Nigerian I believe that's Mr Nigerian who was uh logging into the uh uh teams um just now along with Chris Childs who's the Builder for the project um as you said it just turned uh the town's record 75 years old on January 1st happy birthday um the Nigerians have been looking at um this project for a couple of years um they've owned the home since 1998 um their plan is to retire the next few years and they want to move to chadam on a full-time basis so they're looking to have a structure on the property that has some more living area for them than what's there now with the cottage um you really can't expand you can expand very little laterally just because of site coverage issues only about 75 square feet so the only option is to go up um the condition of the cottage as such it really doesn't feasible to add a second level so that led them to the demolition option um which is what they are pursuing now um looking at your criteria while again it is just 75 years old um to our knowledge it's not associated with any historical persons or events in the town or the Commonwealth and we would suggest it does not possess any architectural value or significance in terms of period Style Etc um with that we'd be happy to answer any questions okay well I guess the first question which was really the question uh do we consider this rather cute little cottage to be historically significant and um that we would impose any kind of delay U I don't think it's hisor excuse me I don't think it's historically significant yeah thank you uh it's a beautiful neighborhood so to speak in terms of its mix of there are various cottages and how it was but I I I don't disagree with you at all Steph you know I think in itself given its Age and and location it make a hard press to uh provide some of our criteria for historical significance uh Sandy how about you Jamie how much uh how big is the lot uh I believe it's around 7,500 Square F feet wow so it's a pre-existing non-conforming do you have to go before do you have to go before zoning yes we've been once we're going back so you went to zoning already mhm and what was the issue if I may uh they they too tall and they didn't particularly like the design so we've made some modifications it's going to be lower in height and the and uh add it some Dormers this design is going to meet their criteria we're hopeful no is it different in the design what you were directing oh yeah yeah it's much different than it was before so well I'm going to say it's it's cottagey I mean that's from my perspective not that we have input so to speak but you know have to do what you're doing it's not that yeah and it meets the coverage which is the big issue um again the ability to expand out is very limited so yeah absolutely do you have is are there people directly behind them that's that have a view is there a view that would be blocked by going up as no okay no all right um um I love the old Cottages that Cape Cod has I hate to see another one go but I do understand you there's no place to go but up so I have no objection yeah N I also um do not believe that in and of itself it's historically significant um I think it's a challenge because of these old Cottages are just hitting and um however I know that I know the whole ridgge Vil neighborhood very well and there are this they've already start you know there are a lot of lot line to lot line you know this board of appeals must be getting a little bit more rigid about things um so it's kind of hard to say you you know your neighbor can do it and you can't um I think that we should really be aware though of these cottages and look for them in Landscapes as a group um and and we're going to need to be thinking about it but this particular one I do not consider historically significant but you bring up a very good point and it's the whole issue with which we hopefully it's another item on our agenda the issue of the form B's and the form A's is to give Eric I'm sorry I'm off topic here a bit or Eric Dre our consultant a little more latitude that we want to we want to address the area you know we can start with the real Cottage communities which exist like noret and stuff like that but other other parts of the community were U I think about what what just happened last week with pemrose I mean that little cottage well anyway getting off topic but yes we definitely needed to do that Bob how about you in terms of historical I don't think there is any historical significance I guess I would add my two cents to it it's um definitely I don't think individually we could make an argument for historical significance I would also add because zoning is going to ask me quite honestly that I believe that what you're proposing you know you know is the height I'll let them deal with that but I think the characteristics of the cottagey type that you're proposing is not completely inconsistent with the neighborhood from my perspective having driven through that neighborhood so it's definitely a little bit of a mixture there have some good better luck with with Sony uh but what their objection was just the design that was um height primarily and then part of the design I mean we've added the Dormers that you see now I think sort of break a lot of that up be broke it up a bit y yeah okay I can see that all right U I think we get a motion Robin I move that the chadam historical commission find the structure located at 128 Pine null Avenue is not historically significant because does not meet any of the definitional criteria in section 158 D2 a b or c of the bylaw therefore the commission does not impose a demolition delay okay second second thank you Nancy any member of the public wish to speak for or against the application okay seeing none and we'll take a roll call Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Robin yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much appr okay uh guess what moving along we have uh a couple of items just to discuss briefly and we may set another record uh uh we don't have any administrative approv one oh we do yeah we I the 31 we okay was on the agenda it was on the agenda online it just didn't come out it didn't get ready until it was not ready until after the packets went out it is correct online all right who who looked at this Nancy and Janet it's 31 Adams Nancy can you just give us a couple of words on what what you decided that's what I'm giving it to you sorry um I actually did tour it and when I went over to see it the owner um came out and walked me around the whole area and talked to me around the house and explained um in detail what they're looking to do which is essentially um they had removed a chimney which was falling over and after the fact realized or were told that they needed to come before us um so the chimney is gone it's been kind of boarded up um it's an old house um 1932 so it falls well within our purview um it's been changed a lot since its original Cottage um The Cottage that was built um there's been a lot of additions that have really obscured the original cage um and also I feel that the change the chimney the chimney did not appear to me to be as part of the original structure but part of a later Edition and I don't believe that the changes are diminishing any remaining historical significance if there is any okay so all right you know for members of public of what we're doing would you like me to read what Janet or do you want to that's okay we could Frank what's the address say again what was the address 31 31 Adams Lane um also I did do some deed research um and I did not find any um notable significant historical figures that I was aware of um who have owned or built the house okay what just for The public's information what we're doing here this is a so-called administrative review process in which uh if an particular application is relatively minor either maintenance or very small changes uh rather than a full Hearing in the process we uh have at least two of the members of the commission independently look at a property to make a determination which Nancy just did and it comes back to the to the full board just to reaffirm the diff this this decision so at this particular point we're just going to affirm the decision of 31 Adams Lane uh and proceed with the administrative review so uh make a motion I just I just did second okay all right we'll do a quick roll call unless somebody has any comments concerns okay Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Robert yes and the chair VES relative to the issue of administrative approvals I don't want to do it now but it's maybe at the next meeting let's put it on the agenda we have a couple of new members potentially another new member you know just to review what it is that we're doing you know because it's it's relatively new for us and we may want to modify it or impr or expand it um to make sure it's definitive purpose of administrative review process is to save the The public's you know time and money for them have needing to come for a full hearing and also to expedite the process because when somebody has to come for a full hearing there's a built-in delay of at least a month you know for in the process uh okay uh we have no correspondence uh we have some old business things and I'll I'll talk as quickly as I can uh I'm going to kind of take them out of order the second item is the U the update of the surveys and the form BS and E the funding has been identified in discussions with myself and K Donovan and Christine uh there's a draft statement of work that's been provided and uh in discussion yesterday with Christine Christina Christine Christine I'll get it straight uh Christine uh ogrady who's our uh principal planner this meeting is going to be taking place between Christine uh and Christine to to review the the recommendations from the historical commission and then provide the the necess necessary formal statement work to out so we could begin that work with hopefully Eric Trey again who has got a lot of experience so we're going to you know we've been doing this for about a year and a half now since we started it but it's taken a while to get the funding in process and everything else but hopefully Eric Eric if we can turn him on that'll be good and we'll begin uh you know it's it's a multi-year process we're can't do it all at once but so but we will proceed to update some of the form BS relative to the recommendation the commission gave which I believe was to look at new form BS first and maybe some area forms so you know there's a there's a process you can't do everything so so much for that if nobody has other uh comments the the third item on the agenda uh old business is the determination of Eligibility of the William Anan Nixon archaeological Homestead uh for eligibility as a national register site we're still awaiting the conservation Foundation comments and I believe at the last meeting Mr leer in looking at the minutes gave you a good sense of what's Happening uh the conservation Foundation has some questions about the emphasis and naming of the Dig uh to include some more recommendations as it relates to the historical properties uh specifically the monomo or Indians who had the land yeah I think commment is anywh you put a spoon in in the ground in chadam you're in Indian land so you know the entire town is was Indian property if you will uh so we need to resolve that uh hopefully in the next month or so so we can submit that uh to mass historic everybody feels we have a really good application that would get add another National register site to uh to chatam uh the fourth item there is the um the uh 90 Bridge Street it's moving along you know in terms of the statement of work and for the next phase uh and hopefully sometime in 2005 or early 2006 we'll see The Boat House floating back to chadam once that happens by the way we would then submit an updated Form B we had a formb draft but we didn't submit it to mass historic because we wanted to wait till the boat housee was back in chadam and then then is the whole question of possibly doing what is done with the other Coast Guard boat houses was see if it is eligible as a national register structure okay uh last but not least Stephanie demolition by neglect hasn't been neglected it's on Christine's um uh list of to-dos and right after we get done with the kicking off the Forbes then we hope to re get her attention to that so that's where we are uh what I want to do is spend a couple of minutes talking about the pem Ros thing but I'll come back to that and relative to the Chairman's report I guess there anything new on the status of the demolition delays no okay so nothing is nothing's changed there we're still waiting the one that intrigues me the most is 322 Bridge Street that extremely historic property goes back to like 1790 or something like that it's still there the owner is still attempting to come to some understanding and and but the property hasn't been Dem demolished so we hopefully we'll see get something happening there you never know um and uh the the third one there the monoy property that still is on hold between the owner uh uh and the town relative to how to proceed there was a court decision which was like a little bit of both so there was no clear Direction so that something that could break at any particular time either break in the sense that we have something as it relates to the old theater or it comes down you know um so it's unfortunate but that's the way it's going um the only thing I would like to do is the uh under old business go back is I looked at unfortunately I just was not in a condition to uh to join you at the meeting on the results of the pemro U uh presentation uh and I think you know just to summarize it I I looked at the meeting again this morning as I had my Cheerios and um and I look look at the minutes on on what you what you said what the the various comments and and I think Christina at the end made it clear well yes we we we have to comment we should comment we have been asked by mass historic as it relates to a the project notification form uh whenever whenever a a property is going to be built using state or federal funds which this is Will and it's a property and it's in an historic district which it is okay that you you have to notify the stakeholders and guess what we're one of the stakeholders this Mass historic uh this chatam historical commission as well as the hbdc this is a friendly um So-Cal it's a 40b they call it a friendly 40b because theoretically the town is not fighting it okay that's why it's called friendly the when you do a 4V uh all it says is that the all the other boards and commissions can't say no but what they can do is provide comments back to the permitting Authority in which this case is the zba so at some point this applicant the pemrose is going to submit an formal application to the Zoning Board of adjustment effectively the zoning board adustment sits as the they become everything they become conservation they become the historical they make so there's only one decision okay so effectively in far as I'm I'm concerned we need to we your chairman we need to provide written comments to the massar about our our question which I think Bob rightfully said you know we don't believe this is the the buildings on the property historically significant so I I agree I don't I'm not trying to argue that point but by the same token I think there was enough comments from various members of the board relative to the design the density you know uh um and my own comment is looks a little too institutional I mean we have a really and I think of the members of the public uh I think it was uh Rick Lev commented about you know how historic this area was and it would be nicer quotes nicer and I hopefully the zoning is going to take it would be nicer if the design kind of more reflected the less institutional look like that that common building right there in front I mean this town went nuts when we were tried to put a the uh senior the uh the Council on Aging and now this guess what it's right there so anyway that's my only comment and I'm going to give Mo what I'm going to do if I may I have your comments that you know I made notes from the meeting I have the what's it's in the minutes I'm going to put together a draft of a letter which would go to zoning which would go to the zba about what we felt and what our opinion is and it's just our opinion we don't make a decision it's just our opinion and I'll send it around to you as soon as possible and then we'll we'll uh I think that's the easiest thing to do rather than going over it yes sanding I have a question how big is that piece of property it's what three and a half acres and does it go down to the water pardon does it go all down to the water no okay no it goes back behind the property where the leev property is there is some wet lens oh okay that's it's not it's well within 100t yes U I had to leave but I did want to make a comment go I thought some of the three stories were too high for that area got it I agree and you know be honest with you they're right in the front right and and you know what they look exactly the same and that's that's what makes it to me institutional okay turn it and and the thing is I wish I wish I was at the meeting I'm sorry sorry I'm a troublemaker you know I looked at some of the other build other Pro other developments they did guess what it wasn't always Square you know this thing is square and I know what they're trying to do and I respect the fact that our select board our honorable select board is trying to squeeze in as you as Robert Stevenson said you realize how many people going in this small space so they're trying to squeeze it in okay but you know maybe all right yes I'm sorry good one more question parking Rob Robert brought up the issue of parking because yeah you could end up that will be a real issue right there and and a curb cut and in and out and I mean it's well we leave it to the P people who are going to make the decision that's a zoning we can only comment and make and make this is concerned and that's all I guess I do when I when I put the letter again I'm just going to issue concerns that's all going to raise concerns you know there's a lot of concerns being voiced verbally but you know now you put it in writing these are our concerns okay it may not be everybody in agreement but these are General consensus of concerns of the historical commission and I appreciate the fact that they have come to us you know because of this friendly you know technically I guess if it was a um not a friendly they didn't have to come they could have just bypassed us and gone straight to the zoning that made it a little bit more confrontational but they didn't you you know and that's fine so I hopefully my letter will be friendly and but still issue issue come comments all right I just wanted to let you know what I was doing about that and I appreciate your I appreciate your comments in the meeting and uh and we'll take it from there that's all I have which is probably too much uh yes um we once discussed changing the 75 year rule because be uh riverbay was coming up soon yeah we had that on our agenda somewhere I didn't see it issues on hold well you know we rest his soul our friend Mr um Steve Burlingame had been pushing that and we did discuss it at a meeting go ahead it had it was on an agenda and there was a discussion and I think you had decided not to yeah we did decision yeah and the decision was we didn't want didn't want to change it you know there's reasons for it and yes we're going to be and I think you know Stephanie just to bring the point up I think what we're trying to get Eric to do is to help us because if we do formas like for instance if we did a form a on River Bay we'll know what we're dealing with from an historic preservation point of view and it'll give us some guidance I mean it's like what we just did with this Cottage here in riverbay yeah that's a nice area but is the whole area historic well not so Eric could make give us some some background and he can kind of give us the right kind of words so we know it sounds like we know what we're talking about this I always think anyway okay anything else any member of the public gentlemen would you like to speak to us it's nice to have a visit Robert Stevens I guess yes nice to meet you Bob stev go over to the mic and introduce yourself hold on Robert okay and then Frank Robert Stevens would like to speak after say good Robert Stevens would like to speak after yes yeah I'm I'm Robert Wilson and I'll be applying later today in get a that's the first interview I've had for about 40 years so but I hope to uh is a lot to learn here I had a brief chat with Frank earlier in the week and uh he very interesting and I have a keen interest in older buildings and I'm an amateur as far as the technical aspects but I'm eager to learn and I really love older buildings so well Robert I good to meet you I want to share with you a comment that I made before the meeting started officially that I'm going to be there at 5 o' and I'm going to strongly oppose your your application and the reason is is I already have a bob and a robin a third one I don't know if I could handle it I go by RP RP all right well I assume it'll be okay well good luck this afternoon I'm going to try and be there okay I'll see you then thank you very much Robert you had something that you wanted to share with us uh yes I do uh since you weren't at the last meeting and someone there asked about the size of the of the lots for the sustainable housing and um the lots are uh lot one is 2.49 Acres lot uh lot one was 1.46 1.46 Acres uh the lot there uh is nine buildings and a community center and uh uh my comment stand here uh there's uh very little space there I estimate about 10 people or so that are going to be living in this community they're all going to be going in and out of their units from a a central Courtyard which is almost the size of a postage stamp and and uh there they're on 63 car Parks uh plus some charging spots and uh I having direct experience in this uh in in another lifetime uh is these small families tend to grow quickly and the minute these children uh become old enough to drive they're off to school and to their job and they either get a car or they share uh some some other car in in the household and uh this idea that we're going to be able to uh Park uh all of these 48 units on uh 63 car spots and I'm not sure whether the charging spots are included in the 63 or not including in the 63 but a lot of these cars they're not going to be Teslas and Little Mini Coopers these are going to be pickup trucks and vans uh the majority and I think we're going to look back uh 10 years from now or uh 20 years from now and we're going to have cars parked all over the place on the on the lawn uh the first time there's a birthday or a maang party there's going to be cars that are going to fill these spots and uh we should nip this in the bud right now we shouldn't be uh we should certainly write a friendly letter uh but this project while I'm for affordable sustained housing this project is really shoehorning a lot of people into a very small space and um so I just uh wanted to be heard it wasn't in the uh uh in the notes of the meeting uh so I just wanted to reiterate that and I'd be happy to uh contribute at at the appropriate time well uh Robert you know thank you very much I I have to happen to agree with you unfortunately you know from the historical commission perspective you know we might be able to comment on it briefly from an historic preservation perspective in terms of the density but um I would strongly urge you individually you know to to speak up you know very quickly at the select board and also for the uh the zoning board uh you know we have zoning and the purpose you have zoning is to avoid these kind of circumstances somebody just came in but it's a 40b which means they technically can bypass you know all those things you know we've kind of you know we made a a deal with the devil here you know and you know as we all want affordable housing well okay do we have to solve in my opinion now we're getting too editorial here we can't solve the whole problem and we're trying to do an awful lot in this and guess what we got this one plus the one in 137 at the same time so it's going to be a lot uh one comment I would just generally and I I was the idea of this community building you know this these properties are going to be built and managed by the same company you know is there going to be another manager's office over in the other building taking up more space you know and I think somebody had a good comment about having to community building someplace else you know we do have a community center downtown and guess what we all go there so anyway you know these are comments we didn't necessarily not necessarily from historical preservation point of view So You Know Nothing is Stopping You individually to to write your own comments at the zoning board and I'm sure in a barit I would I would you you had a very eloquent presentation here in your La in that three minutes I would put it down in writing and um send it to the zoning board and uh you know I'll make it I'll make comments within the the general letter that I want to write but I think more specifically you know you could do that individually we're kind of getting off topic here but that's that's what we do so uh all right so uh I think that's it uh if no other comments or comment from the public Robert this is uh one of the clerk's jobs here I think say again this is one of the clerk's functions you didn't give me a script I move that we adjourn this meeting okay I'll second second all right I been one meeting I missed one meeting I get all screwed up all right Bob yes Nancy yes Steph Yes Sandy yes Robert yes and the chair vot yes thank you very much [Music] [Music]