WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=5wKBQiZm-X8

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: 5wKBQiZm-X8):
- 00:03:10: Meeting Opening, Roll Call, and Approval of Minutes
- 00:07:23: Demolition Delay Application: 70 Queen Anne Road Introduction
- 00:09:34: Applicant Acknowledges Historical Significance of Structure
- 00:10:26: Motion to Affirm Historical Significance; Public Comment
- 00:11:33: Commission Affirms Historical Significance; Applicant Overview
- 00:15:52: Chimney Demolition and Material Choices Discussed
- 00:17:00: Dormer Placement, Cladding, and Window Details
- 00:20:47: Rear Building Facade, Railings, and Code Compliance
- 00:23:16: Commission Member Feedback: Material Choices Concerns
- 00:25:34: Commission Member Feedback: Preserving Traditional Materials
- 00:27:16: Commission Member Feedback: Chimney Retention, Materials
- 00:29:08: Member Concerned About Copper and Faux Chimneys
- 00:29:59: Discussion of Chimneys, Seasonality, and Materials
- 00:31:38: Dormer Heights, Preserving Historic Materials, Thanks
- 00:33:14: Synthetic Siding Concerns, Historic Hardware on Shutters
- 00:34:20: Texture of Siding, Wood vs Plastic, PVC Railings
- 00:36:30: High-Quality PVC, Landscape, and Intex Product Details
- 00:38:40: PVC Sheen, Cementitious Shingles, Owner Participation
- 00:40:16: Siding Styles and Potential Dealbreakers for Commission
- 00:41:45: Owner Concedes Wood Shingle Front, Continued Discussion
- 00:43:19: Facade to be Wood; More Durable Materials Discussed
- 00:45:19: Straight Realistic Shingles; Lobby Fireplace Idea
- 00:47:12: Summary of Previous Comments; Wood Composite Product
- 00:48:17: Architectural Access Board Input; Variance Needed
- 00:50:10: Accessibility Committee, CORE, Improving Building
- 00:51:44: Motion to Proceed with the Final Discussion
- 00:53:05: Natural Siding, Faux Chimneys, Contentious Elements
- 00:54:44: Matching Forms and Characters of Building Discussed
- 00:55:59: Motion to Replace Existing Materials: Natural Wood Shingles
- 00:57:48: Seconded Motion to Replace Existing Materials; Discussion
- 00:58:19: Amendment to the Motion: Door and Window Surrounds
- 00:59:56: Public Comment: PVC's Toxicity Concerns; Public Comment
- 01:01:52: Motion: to Replace Existing Materials; Public Vote
- 01:04:37: Preservation Restriction Discussion with Select Board
- 01:05:57: Informal Motion for Letter to Select Board Granted
- 01:06:48: Coast Guard Boat House Restoration and Update
- 01:07:51: Meetings, Designs, Original Drawings, Saving Exterior
- 01:09:12: Boat House: Defining Character; Coast Guard 36500
- 01:10:37: Boat House: Submitting Application to Mass Historic
- 01:11:44: Name Suggestion- Duncinson- Select Board Involvement
- 01:12:32: Coast Guard Meeting: Original Specification Drawings
- 01:13:38: Commission Recommendation on Boat House Naming
- 01:14:58: Eric Dre; Form B; Waiting for Formal Application
- 01:16:04: Best Way to Proceed; Significant Form B Changes
- 01:17:06: Ongoing Updates of Forms; Holly Herbster Application
- 01:17:54: Updates on Form B, Preservation Award Winners
- 01:19:14: Preservation Awards and the Ceremony in June
- 01:20:19: Discussion of Preservation Awards; Limits Imposed
- 01:21:21: Commission Focus is Not Just on Hearing Applications
- 01:22:27: Old Ben Franklin Mosaic Tiles; Alternate Location
- 01:23:32: Mosaic Tile Donation, Lily Pulitzer; Form B Inquiry
- 01:24:56: Reviewing a Macro of Historic Forms on Computer
- 01:26:01: Form B Should Reflect History, Update Business District
- 01:26:33: History of Ben Franklin is Going to Be Updated
- 01:26:48: Meeting Adjournment Motion


Part: 1

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Frank, >> good morning. Hi. Uh, this is Frank Msina and this is the April 7, 2026 meeting of the Chattam Historical Commission, although by the weather you would think it was March.

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Got some brief notes. Uh please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled on an ondemand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting meeting, please notify the chairman. Pursuant to

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Governor Healey's March 28, 2025 signing of the chap of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extending certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general GL30A

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20 until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Chattam Historical Commission is being conducted in person via and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceeding as provided for in the order.

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A reminder that people who would like to listen to the meeting while it's in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508-9454410 conference ID 718268968 hashtag or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the

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posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Chattam TV Exfinity channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide real time access. Okay.

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No one is recording the meeting, I hope, or let us know. No. Very good. All right. First order is a roll call. >> Bob Leer, vice chair. >> Here. >> Nancy Bar Clerk >> here. >> Stephanie Hamilton >> here. Robert Stevens >> here.

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>> Janet Tennyson >> here. >> Robert Wilson is not here. Sandy Porter is not here. And Peter Donovan >> here. >> Okay. Peter um is an recently added uh alternate to the to the uh commission.

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And so Peter, you would be uh uh participating and voting in place of Robert Wilson. Thank you very much. >> Welcome Peter. >> I'm sorry. I said welcome Peter. >> Oh yes. Okay. Here we go.

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Okay. We have a pretty straightforward agenda and some items which would need some discussion and uh we proceed with the next item which is the minutes of March 17, 2026. Okay. One more time. Annie did a very

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nice job in capturing a plethora of discussions. Any comments, motions on the minutes? >> Move to accept the minutes. There was just one corrupt one. It was just a typo

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where it had NY's name >> Barto. It meant there just was a space that needed to be in down. Um, it started at the bottom of the page. >> Annie's listening upstairs. We're a little short staffed, but she'll it's

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the first page. >> Um, under >> minutes under the approval of the minutes. My second There's just a space missing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Got that? >> So, >> okay. So, motion to accept the minutes as amended. >> Yes. Amended. Yes. Mhm.

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>> Second, please. >> Second. >> Thank you. Okay. Roll call on the minutes. Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. >> Stephanie, >> I wasn't here. >> Thank you. Abstaining. Robert Stevens,

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>> I wasn't here. >> Staining. Janet, >> yes. >> And Peter Donovan, >> yes. >> And the chair votes yes. Okay, moving right along. We have uh our first application uh uh

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and there's an application 260005 in accordance with chapter 158 the demolition delay bylaw 70 queen anne road want to come forward. Uh this is a rather significant and uh in a lot of

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ways historic property in Chattam and it is not listed in the National Register nor it is is it in a um national register district but there is a form B quite an extensive one on the property

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and I think this form B was updated recently by uh by Eric in 2015. So it is pretty up to-date and uh I think the first order of business quite honestly the way we

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operate let you introduce yourself and then we will discuss the issue of historical significance. I don't think you as the applicant is going to have any issues and we Hey. Hi Jamie. We would uh then um make a motion relative to historical significance and then

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proceed. So why don't you introduce yourself first? Let's get that out of the way. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Msina. Uh, and to, uh, the commission. My name is Derek Rubenoff from Derek Rubenoff Architecture in West Roxberry, 84 Spring Street. Uh, and with me is um, um, Paul

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Mahoney who representing the ownership has your management. And, uh, Jamie Norcross, is that right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Is our, uh, our attorney for the project. >> Are there any more in the online application? >> Mr. Har Mr. Har is on uh,

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>> I'm sorry, say that again. >> Mr. Jar is participating remotely today >> and his position again is >> he's the owner. >> The owner, right? Oh, yes. We met yesterday. >> Good morning, everyone. I'm a little under the weather otherwise I would have been there. I apologize. >> All right. No problem. So, um again, uh

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why don't we just quickly proceed to that element of it relative to the historical significance of the property and then we can proceed. So I don't think do you have any issues relative to questioning whether it is or is not historically significant? Um and

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>> no no we don't you know >> we view ourselves as uh caretakers of a a building that's important to this community and and has has been around for a while and we want to make it beautiful again and restore it. >> Okay. So the reason we do that and new to us is if we determine it's not

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historically significant we say thank you for coming goodbye and if it is then we proceed to the next phase and and how we how we would discuss it. So uh again for the public's point of view uh significant uh structure large Greek revival been around here since uh in

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some forms early 1970s in the uh 1800 uh so 1800s 1835. So if there's any other discussion from the commission relative that would be a motion would be appropriate relative to historical significance. Mr. Ler, >> I can do a motion. Um, I move the

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Chattam Historical Commission finds that the main structure located at 70 old Queen Anne out Queen Queen an >> is historic is historically significant because in a whole in part 75 years old

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or more and is associated with one or more of the cultural, economic and political history of the town and possesses architectural value or significance in terms of period and style which mentioned in in the form B is retains many of the

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character-defining features of the 19th century Greek revival house at its core including the cornice detail plasters door surround and six over six windows. >> I'll second. >> Thank you. Well done. Uh got a motion. Any other discussion by the members of

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the commission? Members of the public speak for against the application or the issue of historically significant? Seeing none, we'll do a roll. Mr. >> Chairman, you have a >> Thank you. I almost got past them.

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>> Uh, Brian Phillips, 374 374 Leans Road. I think it's historic. Thanks. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate that. >> All right. Uh, roll call. Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. >> Stephanie, >> yes. >> Robert Stevens, >> yes. >> Janet,

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>> yes. >> Donovan, >> yes. your first vote, Peter, and the chair vote. Chess, thank you very much. Okay. Uh why don't you give us an overview of what you're p what you're proposing and uh how it affects us from

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historical significance. >> Sure. I appreciate that. Uh again this is Derek Rubenov speaking uh architect for the project and uh uh basically um we are replacing the exterior finishes

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with uh inind materials and representations. Um uh generally uh we're we're going to be replacing with materials that are more durable than the existing materials. But the idea essentially is to maintain the look of

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what you see now, just clean it up and replace the stuff that's rotted. So, um, the existing wood shingles on the front facade here would be replaced by wood uh

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by by shingles. They would be a cementitious product by Hardy. This is lapsiding. Um, I don't unfortunately have the actual shingle product shingle product with me, but it would be the same material and it would look like essentially like this would be this

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color. Um, and the uh but it would still appear as a as a shingled facade just as it as it is right now. Um, these products uh have a at least a 20-year warranty. So, the idea is that we're going to make this investment. it's

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going to last for a long time and not look shoddy in in a number of years. Um the uh the window trim will be replaced in kind but with uh with PVC andor cementitious products. So again it'll it'll look the way it does uh in terms

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of the architectural character and uh the the shutters will be will be replaced again that will be with a PVC product and the the entrance which was mentioned a moment ago will be recreated with the same architectural detailing or or something very close to it um with

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with PVC types of products. Uh the roof will be re-shingled with architectural shingles as was uh presented in the uh in the uh package here that we had had submitted. And um architecturally the

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major change, it's not really a major change but the most significant change let's say that is uh at the attic of the original building in the center. So uh that would be first of all the the existing dormer in

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the front would be demolished uh because it's in first of all it's not in very good shape. Secondly the ceiling height is very low right now in those uh in the attic space that's already finished. The the ceiling height is six only six feet.

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So it doesn't meet building code and it's awkward for a lot of people. So the um what we're going to be doing is is internally increasing the ceiling height and uh correspondingly what we would like to do is raise the roof of the dormer reconstruct the dormer

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architecturally to match the existing but with a about 11 or 12 in of additional height. So, uh, the existing dormer does have these sort of three gabled, uh, members, I guess you could call

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them, and they're connected by shed elements, which is a common stylistically stylistically, I would say, stylistically correct, uh, um, move to make uh, uh, for this type of house. You see a number of dormer solutions like this that have been around for a

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long time. And uh so we would be basically rebuilding what's there right now again with with some additional height but not much. So um to the casual onlooker there shouldn't be any change that they would notice. It'll just be

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now in repair instead of disrepair. Uh similarly to that well actually let me just finish with the front there. The other thing we were proposing is the chimneys for some reason take up quite a bit of room particularly in the attic space. So, we were looking at potentially demolishing them. I did

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speak to some some of you yesterday, and I know there's a desire to to try to maintain at least the profile or the look of the chimneys, and we we would be open to recreating those chimneys in sort of a faux way with with appropriate materials.

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um if that's desired by the commission. Uh on the side of the building, the south side, uh we are proposing if we go to the next page. >> Is that something I can do here with this? >> No. >> Okay,

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>> bear with me. >> No problem at all. >> Is that good? >> Uh yeah, that'll work there. Yeah. So, the south side, um, the street is to the right of of this elevation here. And what we would like to do there, uh, is

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take an existing finished unit that's up in the attic there and bring a lot more light into it and introduce a really fantastic view of of the ocean. So, what we'd like to do is is dormer that um part of the roof. Now we're

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pulling the dormer away from the street. So it's offc center. And what you don't see in this elevation, there are a number of trees right here. So I think the the view of this dormer dormer will be largely blocked I guess by existing uh trees

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that are there right now. But uh we wanted to maintain uh yeah let's go down a little bit there so we can see the celebration here. Please >> can you move that up? Yeah. Yeah, fantastic. So, the the the

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architectural aim here is to create a dormer that is uh appropriate for this property. So, what we did is do the two gabled ends similar to what we have in the front. And then we did one big shed

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in the middle here uh to connect the two. It didn't it didn't feel comfortable having three uh gable dormers there. It was it was a little this is a narrower run of dormer here. So this looked the most appropriate to us and it would be u on top of the existing fenestration that that it kind

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of lines up with what's going on below at least at the ends the end windows. Uh this elevation here um would have white hardy plank which is this arctic white. It would resembles the uh tradition

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resembles traditional clapper siding. That would be on this facade that would wrap around the back. The shingles I mentioned uh at the beginning would be on the front of the building. They would wrap around on the north side which is facing the parking lot which is has much more exposure.

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Um otherwise uh generally the the materials that I've already talked about will continue around the building here. So, um, shutters, um, on the north side here on the left will be replaced with, uh, with

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a long lasting PVC alternative. And, uh, I mentioned the shingles a moment ago. They'll, they'll be that that gray color that I showed earlier. And, uh, there's a copper bay window here. I don't know when that was added, but um our uh

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intent is to replace the the roof of that bay with a a copper roof, which I think will will look really quite beautiful. Um another tie into the to uh copper would be the gutters, excuse me, the downspouts of the

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gutters. The downspouts of the gutters would be replaced with copper down spouts. So, trying to take the facade a little bit up a notch in terms of uh the quality of of materials that we're using here. Uh the windows would be replaced with 6 over6 windows. We've heard

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earlier that that would be an appropriate look. And uh they would be Marvin Elevate windows which are an it's really an excellent product. And they um the mullions um the muttons, excuse me, would be

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articulated on the outside of the glass. So rather than just sort of a graphic between the glass that you would see in less expensive replacement windows, you would have um an actual profile of the >> molding is exterior. The glass you're saying? >> Yes, it's exterior to the glass so it'll

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look more appropriate. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, sure. And we'll be we'll be replacing the trim around the windows in the back. Some of the windows I don't think even have some trim right now. So everything will will get uh historically appropriate trim all around the building. in the rear of the building, uh, which I think is on a different

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slide, might be an earlier slide. Uh, it's the one at the bottom. I'm sorry. This one down here. Great. Thank you. So, um, the rear of the building is um, probably the most

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descriptive architecturally of the various additions that have been put onto the building. There's sort of a a mishmash of forms that have been added over the years and >> that's a political way to say >> thank you. Um so uh now it would be

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expensive to try to fix all that and make it look like an architectural composition. Um what I think is uh reasonable here for us to try to do is first of all you know again we're replacing the siding. This is going to be the white that white arctic white uh

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hardy clapper siding. It's got a little bit of definition of the wood kind of grain that you would expect to see on on traditional clapper siding. That'll replace the vinyl that is there right now. um the uh banisters, the the

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railings, those will be replaced with uh code compliant railings uh and guard rails that will be made out of um PVC, but we'll have traditional profiles that'll be appropriate appropriate architecturally for the building. The windows will be, as I mentioned a moment

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ago, the doors will be similar to those windows uh generally uh traditional French doors um or something um similar to that. Um, and uh, at the top here there are these two dormers. If we go

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uh, I think maybe at the top of this page where we have the demo drawing. Yeah, there's I can't see. It's kind of blacked out in this this representation. There are two smaller dormers that are there right now. They're perpendicular to each other. It's it's really a weird condition. It's just sort of

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half-hazardly. Oh, we need another dormer. Let's just add it. So, um, we would replace those with one L-shaped dormer, which you see at the bottom of the screen here. So, that'll look more cleaned up and that'll be much better inside with the additional headroom that

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I had mentioned earlier. We would be removing the very strange overhang that we saw yesterday at this loading area that I'm amazed that the wind hasn't ripped off over the years fully. It's partly ripped off. Uh, so that'll that'll be demolished. uh that

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little um strange projection. Um and other than that, I think that's the I think that's the story here. >> Good. Well, thank you very much. You had a very detailed description and uh

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I got a number of comments just quickly before I turn it over to the members of the commission. First of all, >> what size is that drawing you're you have in front of you? >> Um, it is a portable size. >> What is it called? Is it C size? >> It's a this is a half size. It's a 18 by

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24 size. What we furnished you with was uh 36x 48, which is is a a large presentation. So, thank you for uh um being tolerant of a little extra space and weight. But you know, we're about to

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change the application form to say no larger than >> understood. >> Well, because I know in brief conversation with your owner, what the hell, excuse me, what it cost him to print all these things. So anyway, it's a lot of trees going. That was my first

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observation. And and secondly, you know, I'm the site visit. I appreciate that. well attended by the members and I think they're important for us to get a a close-up view. And my third observation is good thing you're not on Nantucket

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because um this is going to be one plastic house. I mean yeah I I appreciate the fact that you're using so many alternate m alternate materials and you know we can discuss that more but uh you're taking it to the fullest I mean

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in terms of siding everything else. So uh but this is not in a national registered district. It is historic and and I think you've done a lot to help in my opinion maintain the historic character. I want to comment on that attic space the sixoot height in 197 I

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happened to be staying at the end in one of those attic and I don't somehow it was fine for me. So anyway, um, and of course you restruct the chimney. So, uh, rather than me going on, I'm going to turn it over and let's see what comments we have from the members. We'll start. Nancy,

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you want to start? >> Um, I, um, also want to start by saying, you know, it's great to see somebody come in and want to protect a building instead of change the whole thing. Um, I I would say that I agree with Frank that

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the replacement of all the traditional wood used in historic buildings with longerlasting, durable, I understand that from an owner maintenance perspective. I particularly have um a challenge with the front, the

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streetscape going from a traditional wood shingle to a cement shingle. um you know the new houses that are built with that you can tell it's it's clear that they are not wood shingles that are weathering but they are a neat and clean

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and durable tidy thing but they are not historic um and I so I would just the front materials if if there was anywhere you could retain a wood a traditional natural material that was used in

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historic buildings I would encourage the front in particular. Um, as it wraps around the front shingle, I would love to see that be a wood shingle. Um, in and the door surround, it's historic. These are character defining features in

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my mind. The surround to the door is, you know, it's a historic, it's a historic presentation. To replace it with PVC changes for me the historical significance of those character defining features. Um, also I understand about

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fireplaces leaking and chimneys leaking and that you may not be using them. I guess one question I have is are you taking out all the fireplaces that are attached to those chimneys when you do the internal interior renovations? >> Well, I think we only have one working

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fireplace in there. Is that right? >> And that's on a rear chimney. >> That's that's already on a on a different chimney, right? >> Yeah, that's on a diff that's on a chimney in the rear of the property. So, are you saying there's no fireplaces that go to those chimneys? >> I'd like to make sure that I double check that. I don't want to >> Okay.

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>> Well, I guess what I'm saying is those are your application says they're not primary defining features. Those chimneys to me and the materials they're made of brick, real real things going up are are traditional historic features of

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the structure from 1835. You had to have fireplaces, you had to have chimneys. And I know that you've, you know, kind of talked about putting something that's visually, I guess, a fake chimney. I personally almost would rather see them gone than a fake chimney, but I would

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really encourage thinking about retaining those historical things with their historic materials, which I imagine they're probably original to the structure. I don't know if you know, but um those are my biggest issues. I appreciate all the other things that you

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are doing that I'm not saying I have an issue with. I know there's a lot of work going into the building. Um I appreciate the windows, the you know retaining the six over6. Um I'd like to see those surrounds not just appropriate to some historical period but appropriate to

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what was there when they had them. >> Um I think those are my major comments. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Janet. Janet. You're thinking you want me to skip? You want me to give you time? >> Yeah. Why don't you come back to

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>> All right, Steph. >> One of the things I'm concerned about, and I'm not sure about this, uh, the copper. I don't think they built with copper aundred years ago. >> Oh, yeah, they were. >> My parents were >> Mhm. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, they were. >> They did.

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>> If I could also say, 200 almost 200 years old. Maybe >> one at a time, folks. It's hard to >> 100 years old. I don't care for the copper. I would prefer a white there. I'm also bothered by the chimneys. Um, different than what Nancy said. If I'd

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rather have faux chimneys than nothing, >> go ahead. >> Okay, Miss Mr. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for all your work. Uh, it's quite incredible what you've done and what you're what you're doing. So, uh,

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you just need to know we're not the enemy here. And, um, so, um, I, uh, I agree on the chimney. And I'm just curious whether you plan to be open year round. >> Um, >> I mean, that's a little outside our scope, but

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>> we, we hope to to have the season be longer than it is. Um, and we have to sort of let them let the market tell us what they look what uh what the demand is. >> Yeah. Uh, Chadam is is changing. More people are coming in the winter. >> Yes. >> And I know the CBI has uh not uh in

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season and out of season. They have spring season, summer season, fall season, and winter season. And their winter season without a fireplace would look pretty silly in that place. So, I know you want more keys or more rooms,

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but if a fireplace in the main area, maybe where your breakfast nook is or I don't know where it would be, but but that's one thing. Uh the siding, I've I've used a lot of AAC and uh I'm unhappy with it. Everywhere I've used it, it doesn't it doesn't go with the

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rest of my house. I keep painting over the mold. I I wish you would reconsider that particularly on the front of the house as as Nancy has said. Um see um and I'd prefer a faux chimney as

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opposed to no chimney. Okay. I hope you rework that. And um and I'm curious what the overall height is when you're finished. Is this a ZBA issue? I don't think they're changing the roof height.

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>> Uh the height of the building isn't increasing. We do have to go to the zoning board of appeal. >> Yeah, it's going up going up 11 in. >> Excuse me. >> No, no. The Where is it increasing? >> The dormer is going up 11 in, but the ridge height is not increasing. >> I'm sorry, not getting it. Say it again. >> The dormer height is increasing, but the

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overall ridge height of the structure is not. >> Yeah, the ridge height is not >> because the dormer is below the ridge. >> Yeah. Bob, could I interrupt you just a second on relative to considering that u and what I'd like to have as a brief discussion with relative to the dormers.

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Okay. We we understand dormers and we understand the change. But what we don't like to see and hopefully when your contractor comes in to do the dorma, the easiest thing to do is to tear off the whole damn roof. Okay? We would like you

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to at least make sure and make it part of the condition of it that you minimize the loss of what we call historic materials. I mean, the original part of the house, the the center house is the old 1830s and it's probably the original structure. The original beams are probably there. I don't think it's it's

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changed. So, we'd like you to be careful when you when you replace the dormers that you don't, you know, come in and just demolish the entire roof structure and then build it back, which is the way like contractors do it. They get fussy

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sistering. It cost them time and everything. So, but we'd like to encourage you to to retain as much historic material where you are making and it's very minor changes considering the shape the size of the building, but still we'd like you to do that. I'm sorry, Robert. No, no, no. That's fine.

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I I I just want to thank you again. What a marvelous job you've done. And I hope you just take our thoughts um internalize them and maybe you'll come up with a slightly different plan, but especially the siding in the front because when you drive by, for example, I have a historic mill on my property

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and if I put a synthetic uh siding on it, it would just look I would look like I'm at Disney World. >> So there you go. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um Peter Um, yeah, I think it's a uh great to see

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that property getting restored and uh good choice on the windows. Um, I would say on the shutters, maybe if um you could expect some sort of uh historical hardware that might help with the authenticity of the front facade. Um, I know there's quite a few options out there with that now. So, that would be

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my my only comment, >> Mr. Vice Chair. >> Um, thanks. I I agree with what everybody said in terms of saving the the general look and not uh changing immeasurably. I there there was a situation in town recently where person

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bought a hotel and wanted to put a giant dormer on it and an elevator with an elevator tower and that didn't go well I shall say. Um, and the NY's comments I agree with in general, but not maybe to the degree

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that she feels because she's more of historical person than I am. I'm more concerned about that the texture of the se cementicious product and that it'll probably or almost certainly be

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noticeable from close up. So to the extent you can stay away from that in the areas we've mentioned which are the the front obviously and maybe to some extent the wraparounds is that would be better. I did look up the James Hardy uh

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website because I'd never heard of the stuff and it looked from the the pictures that you have a choice of textures with both the the shingles and the clabard. One is pure smooth which really looks like plastic and then the

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other one has some texture and it looked like it even had a wood grain and the on and the clabber I think. >> Is that >> Yeah, that's correct. That that's what I've brought today. And if you'd like I can pass it around here. >> Yeah. >> So, uh again the uh the gray one is not

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the actual shingle shape. Um, unfortunately we w were not able to get the sample in time, but it's that color and it's that uh my understanding is it's that texture and then the the the siding would have that texture as well. So it's got a wood grain texture. It's not exactly the same grain on each piece. It varies,

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>> right? So again, um we we use these products all the time um for many many years on many traditional uh Victorian area or earlier uh projects and uh with with really terrific aesthetic results.

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So, um, this is a type of product that we use for these types of buildings. Typically, >> for for me at least, it's it's a little bit different because, um, the the texture part is one thing, but what most people that come in are not

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doing this kind of a project. So, they say, well, we want to put something on the side of our house. And we say, oh, come on. Shingles are good. Now, I understand entirely having a shingled house where you're coming from, but it would the places you can see would be a

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lot better, I think, with um the real materials. And I think that's kind of where Nancy was coming from, Tom, not the whole thing. Um, another piece of that you've you've said PVC upon occasion and particularly I'm thinking

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about the um the ramp from the parking lot up to the front door. Uh, let me parenthetically say I'm chairman of the town committee for people with disabilities. So, I'm all in favor of the ramp. I can't quite figure out how you got by without it, but that's

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another thing. Um, but there are the >> existing condition. >> Yeah. Well, well, um, whose side do you want anyway? >> Well, no. If if it, you know, with a home if a property a commercial property certain age >> and they

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legally they don't have to. >> Believe me, I know the rules and you do too cuz you question me about one. Um but um the materials that you see on fencing, which I guess is going to be similar to what the railing is for your

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ramp, the the PVC stuff looks really cheap. And you can get also get them made out of ASAC. It's more of a solid material. It doesn't look like this. >> I assume it's vinyl. >> I assume you're using >> said PVC, so that's why I'm questioning it.

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>> Yeah, ASAC is PVC. So, uh it it's going to be uh a product uh made by a manufacturer called Intex. And um it's uh uh again the the aesthetic is historically appropriate in terms of the the forms. >> Do you know, excuse me, do you know the

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name of the actual product you're using? >> Yeah, it's in it's in the drawings. Um I can take a moment and look it up if you'd like. Uh but uh it's it's made by a company called >> keep PVC is the generic term for but it's not the name of the product PVC. >> No, that's the material.

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>> Material. Yeah. >> Yep. >> And we've had some experience with some people. >> Well, if if you walk down the street and there's a bunch of picket fences, which there are in my neighborhood, you can tell immediately which ones are plastic and which ones are painted wood. And

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some people paint the plastic just because it looks better. So, I'm just I'm I don't think it's a deal breaker, but I think it'd certainly be better if that railing where people are obviously close to it and noticing will think it's a little bit more high quality

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operation. So, it so it it will it will be it's proposed to be PVC and I understand your concerns about inexpensive PVC fencing which like you said you see in a lot of people's yards and it's identifiable. This will be a a

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a high quality PVC product. >> High quality PVC. >> Yes. So durable, you know, it's not going to look flimsy. It's not going to look like a cheap >> cheap uh fence. >> Well, I wasn't implying that. >> No, no, no. I I understand. But that would be my interpretation of your concern. Um so, and and and that would

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be a concern I would share, frankly. I mean, this is a nice this is going to be a nice hotel. I understand. So we we want uh um people to have favorable uh impressions of of tactile elements or things that they see up close. >> You know, I started the conversation relative to Glad you're not in

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Nantucket. And I meant that. Excuse me. Mr. Donovan had a quick question. >> Oh, sure. I just wanted to back up. The the Intex product is a a good, you know, historically accurate product. >> What's it called? >> Intex. What do you >> Oh, ASAC. So that's Intexing product. But >> I think the difference with ASAC and you

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keep saying PVC is when you talked about the shiny fence. >> The ASAC does not have that appearance. The ASAC is >> is dimmer or I don't know what the proper term is, you know, for for this finish, but you know, and I think what we're concerned about is when you see

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somebody putting in these new plastic fences, which shine like crazy, and it's obviously plastic. So, >> and I just commented I think that's that's one of the reasons why we chose the Intex product because the Intex product doesn't have that same sheen.

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It's a very very dull and it's a more solid looking looking product. And then if you take once you take that product and then you you set the landscape in front of it, you you're sort of just setting a clean backdrop to it and it's it's actually a very very nice look in the end.

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>> All right, we had another question. Jenna. Yes. >> Did you get yours? I forget. >> I didn't. I just I just sorry back to the um the cementitious shingles. Um I looked at the website too for Hardy. Um wasn't familiar with it. Don't know if this is a relevant question, but it

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seemed like >> um I think they're installed in like sheets of it, right? Or like I don't know. Anyways, however, it doesn't matter how it's installed. Never mind that. um it looked like you had a choice between a very regular um regular

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shingle or a style that kind of looked like irregular shingle and I just wondered had you chosen a style for what you were putting on there. >> Um let me just double check there. It it specifies straight edge which I thought

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was maybe what the difference that NY's talking about. >> Can I can I interrupt the discussion a second? Uh, you know, Mr. Leer used the term deal breakaker and I guess I'm I'm looking at

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the the TV here or the extreme speaking with the owner. Okay. Who we met yesterday and you know and the term is you know dealbreaker. By the way, what is that piece of brown thing on on your drawings? What is that?

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>> That that's the spoke. >> It's a copper down spout. copper what I >> it's on almost every drawing. What is it? >> Yeah, that's a that's a copper down spout. That's a what you're seeing is sort of light shining on on a copper tube there. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Fine. All right. Back to where

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I was. I I interrupted myself. Uh is, you know, we using the term deal breaker, which means when we finish this discussion, you know, we're going to journey and we're going to take a vote. Do we impose a demolition delay? Are the

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changes that you're in in in in um proposing affect the historical significance of the property? Okay. Uh this is an icon iconic structure. Everybody knows of the Queen An in it stands out and I think to

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a to a person here we've all applauded your efforts and the money being spent or will be spent you know to do this. But I think the issue of the the front of the building, you know, that iconic structure, like you said, the back of the building, who knows what we call we

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call that, and we're certainly not going to impose any demands to change it. Okay. But the back at the front of the building is it is there consideration or can we I'm looking at the owner even though I can't see him that you would

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consider you know changing your your plan so to speak to accommodate us. And again I'm I'm going to emphasize this is not a deal breaker you know relative to the historical significance but I think it would be really good for the building for and you you know this is an historic

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building. I don't know if you're on the list of historic uh you know those places where you can stay at hotels which are historic. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. But I think you know that's part of it. It >> we hope that the building does not turn

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into be plastic so to speak and we'd like to encourage you to seriously think about that and to allow you know I don't know what it's going to cost the difference in the front of the building of using this material versus cedar long good cedar last a lot of years. Okay.

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And it and guess what? After a while, it will it will change a little bit and you may have to wash the building. >> Small price to pay to have a a building which truly is historic and will continue to be based upon what you're doing. So, can I get a discussion going

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on that with sir? >> Sure. You know, once again, I would have been there today, but I'm lying in bed with a cold as I wouldn't shake anyone's hand yesterday. Um, I think we can agree to that. That seems to be a point and a valid point that's been brought up by the whole committee. That's something

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that I'd be willing to to agree to. >> Yeah, we're gonna agree to that. Okay. So, let's >> Janet hasn't spoken yet. >> Yeah, I know. I wanted to, but I just with all the discussion here, I thought we we can put it put it to put that element of it to bed. I apologize, Janet. Yes. Go.

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So, um I understand what everybody else is saying, uh my other co my colleagues, but um I understand too where you're going with this with the uh more durable uh materials um which are going to cost be a lot more

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expensive than if you went with the cedar. I know that for a fact. But, um, if you could make the the, um, shingles look in the front in the historic part of the building, uh, I think instead of

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straight, well, you know, real realistic. I think that that would be that would be helpful. I don't think it would look great with cedar shingles on just that section and then have the um, Hardy board on the rest of the building. I don't think that works. So, I think

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your I have no problem with your plan there. I agree with Nancy on the chimneys. Um, from a safety point of view, I can't see having a lot of chimneys, a lot of fireplaces in a building that size. That would make me very nervous if I were staying there.

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So, maybe one chim one fireplace in the lobby. That's a great idea if you go with it. But, I don't like the idea of f of faux chimneys. Um, I agree with I'd rather see no chimneys than faux chimneys. And if the material making the

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railing up the walk is probably going to have plantings in front of it, >> which it will, >> then then I think that's a good look because it's easier to clean. It won't rot. But the the hangup I have is on the shutters. If the shutters could be wood,

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if you think about that, just those shutters, that's all. But otherwise, I have no problem with the plan. Thank you. Okay, we kind of >> can I just summarize two two comments. One I I didn't mention I took a note I think it was NY's comment about the door

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surround too that's obviously very visible and it's right there. So we use wood on that material. >> Would would uh the uh commission be open to a wood compos uh composite product? >> I personally would be. I don't know

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about you know I think I think you >> I think so. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. >> For moldings and such. Yeah, I appreciate that. >> And and one other comment um with regard to the visibility of the uh ramp railing, I'm assuming there will be not

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be vegetation in front of the ramp railing on the ramp because that would defeat the whole purpose. So, it will be very visible. So, >> you're you're correct. We >> But in front, >> but but on on the street side, yeah, people inside one second. One at a time.

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>> I just meant the streets start like that. >> One second, Chad. Yes. >> No, I'm just saying that people are going to be walking up the inside and they're the ones that are going to be fingering it. So that it's going to be quite evident what it is. And I I'm not familiar with Intax, but

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>> do we require applicants to go before your committee? >> There aren't. We'd have no applicants unless they want to get a variance on the disabilities factor, >> which you might. So >> interesting. We will be uh well we're making significant accessibility

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improvements to the building. For instance, the front entrance. >> If you're act asking for a variance on that though from the mass architectural board >> which we will need variances for some of the conditions >> mean you're going to have to come to the committee for disabilities because they need a sign off from somebody in town

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usually. >> Yeah. Okay. We we we did have a I mean I have to speak with my colleague back in my office, but I know she initiated uh a um an outreach I thought she initiated an outreach to an accessibility committee and was told that she didn't

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>> we didn't need to. >> Well, she didn't she may have talked to the building commissioner which would be the appropriate >> liaison. Speak with Jay Briggs at some point. >> Yeah. >> Liaison to Mr. Lear's committee. But we would be happy to to >> I'm I'm not asking you to come. I'm just

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saying it may come that way. And Mr. Briggs, as Jamie knows, would be the sort of the one to make that decision. So >> yeah, don't is is it bar isn't any application required to go before the architecture review board is >> the the architectural access board? >> Yes.

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>> Well, if we need a variance for 521 CMR, I got you. >> We do it. So we we met with the um so um Mr. Mr. Lair be happy to to share with you our accessibility package if you know we just want to go through the appropriate channels. Uh >> well if if if you're sharing it with Mr. Briggs I guess I can

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>> okay >> get it that way. >> Yeah certainly >> we'd be interested in in in your seeing it and getting your feedback. Um and we we did have an initial conversation with the the regional um uh accessibility commission. I'm trying to remember their

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acronym. Uh it's escaping me at the moment. Um, >> there's a Cape Cod one, I think. >> What's that? >> Is there a Cape Cod one? I think there's some >> There was one for the Cape Cod. I'm trying I'm trying to remember if the name was CORE or something. >> Uh, but it's the one. I can't remember

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what it stands for. Yeah, we we so we so we've had that initial conversation with core and uh again certainly uh be appreciative of your review of of what we're doing for accessibility for the building and we will be submitting for

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uh for certain variances um mainly to do with uh dimensional issues on the inside where we have structural uh walls that prevent quarters been from being widened to >> to uh beyond the 36 in that they are right now. We are going to be adding two

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accessible keys. So it will be uh that will meet the 20% requ uh 5% requirement. >> We're getting way off the we are getting >> authority of the historical commission and u we do not have any jurisdiction on any interior efforts but it's it's good

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good discussion. Thank you very much. >> Well and and exterior too. I saw notes on your plans about the slopes that you're looking going to be looking for a variance for. Right. And we're generally improving the slopes. Again, the the parking area will be improved to to have

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compliance slopes and then the the ramp and the entrance and then accessible keys, accessible dining inside, accessible toilet. That will be addressed. But >> to your perview. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Janet. I'm sorry. What if Bob wanted to finish? >> No. Okay.

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>> We got it. Okay. All right. Uh I would like to sum this up. Uh, but before we do, I'd like to get my chimney discussion in. >> When you look at a building in I do it all the time. I drive around town a lot and I look at buildings and I see the

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new ones with no chimneys. I see a very high-end new building and guess what? They have faux chimneys. Why? Because they want to maintain what we call a sense of place. I'm looking back at the

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author of the sense of place. and without chimneys, without that historical architectural feature in my mind, a defining architectural feature. You know, that building was built in 1820 or 2026.

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And that's why, you know, got to be 15, 20 years ago when we realized that and we started to encourage faux chimneys on old historic iconic structure because once you take those chimneys down, that building could be pretty, but it could have been built 5 years ago and the town

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loses a sense a little bit of our sense of place. Anyway, that's my that's my my dialogue for today. Having said that, uh I think we're done and I'm going to uh ask for a motion just to proceed to the the final discussion. Robert, >> I have a question about the motion. Um

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what where sort of where do we want to go here? We've talked about making revisions to the plans which we have some agreement. I think we do have some agreement and I think uh if I may uh the motion should it effect in addition to the normal relevance of historical

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significance that the apple agrees facade of the building you know we would he would use uh natural materials uh seat on the shingles if I'm saying that correct okay and also agreed that there would be u uh you know replace the two

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main chimneys on the most historic element of the building uh with faux chimneys which match the form and character of the existing the existing structure. I making the motion here and I think that was the only other thing

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would we got concurrence with. Did you >> Yes. >> But what but but I'd like to see this project go forward and I don't agree that they I wouldn't vote for them for this motion. >> Yeah. Well, you can you can not vote for it. We're just trying to assemble the motion. Is there anything else at this

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particular point that you want in the motion, Janet? >> You can vote yes or no depending upon. >> I think the owner made the offer of the facade being one way. So, yes, he did. And I don't know if you heard that because you were about to speak. >> Um, but I would just ask you, are we for

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the faux chimneys? Are we saying what they're faux made of? >> No, we said faux chimney. >> You say it looks like the ones that are there now >> that would match the form and character of the existing buildings. You can't say anything more than that. What else could you say? >> I don't know. I'm just I I >> No, that's what we do when we say we ask

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we ask an applicant to match the form and character of the existing building, which means the form, the design and character. >> So, they could be like plastic PVC white things. >> There is there are actually materials. >> I'm just asking. I'm not >> I understand.

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>> Challenging. >> No, no, I'm not ch I know you're not challenging. I just want to give you information. There are materials which match brick and you can match historic brick, you can match current bricks and we would hope that the I'm not going to design it for them. We're going to leave it to them to do it by matching the form

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and character of the existing chimneys. >> Okay. So, this is something that you guys have said, I know the owner, thank you, has offered to go with a shingle front facade. You've also offering to do a f >> Let's put that in the motion and we can

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get we can get a discussion. >> Okay. >> All right. Anything else that you feel should be in the motion? >> I don't feel that should be in motion. >> Say again. >> Nancy and I don't feel that should be motion. >> That's don't vote for it then. Okay. I'm

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assembling a motion which I feel there's consensus of Janet. So let's have the motion. Robin, don't we have a has got all the notes, six different things going on. >> If if I can just quickly add you, I

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think the time is of the essence. So if there are provisos uh that would keep the project moving forward. >> Yes, >> that would be uh appreciated rather than um sort of a full I'd love to see you all again, but if if there's a way to >> I think I think we're close to that.

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>> Thank you. >> It's like pulling everybody together. >> Okay, Robin. Uh, >> Robert, why don't you do the front end and I'll do the rear end of of the motion. >> Well, okay. We can we can do it that

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way. Um, the Chattam Historical Commission also finds that the proposed work to be done March 6, 2026 will not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the main building and therefore the commission does not impose

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a demolition delay provided that provided that the applicant agrees to uh replace the existing uh front m the front materials with natural siding natural uh natural wood shingles on the

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front of the building. And uh also in addition that the applicant will uh replace the existing two chimneys on the historic ele the historic center of the building with in form and function and character of the exist excuse me not

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function form and character of the existing uh uh chimneys the two chimneys. Okay, >> that's me. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. We've got that motion. Do we have a second? Anybody want to second

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that motion? >> I'll second that. >> Okay. Now, we're going to have discussion. Robert, >> I have nothing more to discuss really. >> Okay. >> I've had all my questions yesterday. >> Oh, anything relative to the motion?

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>> I think it's fine. >> Fine, Steph. >> I totally agree. >> Good. Janet. Yes. No. Maybe. >> Okay. Nancy. >> Um I would I would like to see if the motion for the front facade could

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include that the window surrounds and the door surround or at least the door surround is also we didn't add the wood composite which they had agreed to I believe. >> So um I would like to add >> Why don't you make that as an amendment to the motion? I would like to amend the motion to say that the front facade is

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cedar shingle, the door surround is wood, and ideally the the front materials are all of wood. >> Okay. Do we have a second to that motion? >> Could that be wood composite? >> Say again. >> Could that be a wood composite product?

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>> I believe I mean I'm I'm I'm not an expert enough. I'd defer to my colleagues who know more about materials. >> It's just more dimensionally stable. It'll it'll look like wood, but it would >> Can I ask somebody who knows more about Peter? >> Yeah, what he's referring to is is would be acceptable. It's just it's not ASAC.

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It's it's more historically accurate. So, yeah, I would agree with that. >> I think that's correct. >> Yes. Okay. We now have a second motion, a second to the motion. We're going to now vote on NY's amended to the motion. Okay. We have Do we have a I think we

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had a second to that motion. Bob, do we voting on the amendment? NY's amendment. Robert, >> I'll second then. >> All right, we have a second. Now, do we have a We'll take a vote on the amendment. Robert, why don't we start with you? >> Uh, yes. >> Steph, >> yes. >> Janet,

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>> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Chair votes yes. Now, we will vote on the full motion as amended. >> Okay, we have a motion. We have a second and amendment. Yes, Steph. >> We have any member out outside

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>> public? Thank you very much for reminding me. What would I do without you? Okay. She forgot to hand me the sign. Okay. Does any member of the public wish to speak for or against this amended motion? >> Yes. >> Yes. Come on up.

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This is a complicated application and it requires some specifics and uh so I bear I appreciate the patience of the members of the commission, the applicant. So we proceed. Yes. Could you introduce yourself, ma'am? Yes, Ellen Briggs, protect our past. And I was excited

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about the proposed renovation of this wonderful historic inn. Uh uh there is an element of this uh PVC material that I'm not sure you're all aware of. It was in our document life rings and it is

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that PVC is highly toxic. It is polyvinyl chloride and it's when it's heated heated or burned it is very poisonous. It's heating releases hazards sorry hazardous chemicals including

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hydrogen chloride HCI dioxins volatile organic compounds. Inhalation of these fumes can cause serious health issues such as respiratory distress, chemical burns, long-term cancer risk, making it a dangerous task um for being involved

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with. I'm so sorry that that's actually true and it's something that most people don't know. So, I am all for going back to cedar shingles all the way around using the original materials which have stood the test of time. Um, I'm very

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concerned that we're having plastic buildings that people live in and could be exposed to the toxins. So, I'm sorry to throw a ringer in at this last minute, but it's a fact I think you all should know about. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Anybody else wish

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to speak? Come on up, Brian. >> Will I have an opportunity to address those concerns? >> Yes, you do. You You could right now. >> That's fine. >> Thank you. I appreciate um uh Ellen's comments there. Uh uh and uh I just want

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to point out that the siding that we had been proposing is is not PVC siding. No, >> it's been um we were talking about some PVC elements, but as a percentage of the coverage of the facade, it's very small. >> Yes. >> Which we have agreed, I think, that

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we're going to produce cedar anyway at this particular point. >> Right. And then the rear siding and and the the south side would be uh the cementitious siding. >> You got it. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Introduce yourself, please. >> Brian Phillips, 374 Road. Um I come to a lot of these meetings and I usually

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never have anything nice to say about these projects, but I'd like to say thank these guys for a very thoughtful approach to uh restoring one of our uh historic buildings in town. And I'm really glad you guys went with the cedar shingles. Thank you. >> Thank you.

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Okay. Uh, any member of the public online who would wish to speak for against the application? Seeing none, I think we could proceed with the vote of the application as amended. All right, we're going to do a roll call. Mr. Leer,

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>> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. >> Stephanie, >> yes. >> Robert Stevens, >> yes. >> Janet Tennyson, >> yes. >> Peter Donovan, >> yes. >> And the chair vote. Thank you very much. >> I appreciate your patience and I appreciate the patience with the members

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of the commission to attempt to to focus it together, you know, to find something and good luck. And um so I missed that conversation rather. When do you think you might be opening? Well, >> we plan to be opening. You mean as

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restored building? Well, well, yeah, >> we'll be we'll be opening this year u in June, but then we'll be opening uh after all this work in the following May or June. >> Okay. So, you're going to work on the I get you. All right. >> This will this project will start uh it'll start Labor Day or just after

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Labor Day and go throughout the winter. >> All right. Thank you. >> And will you invite us? That's the question. >> Yes. I just want to ask a question that has nothing to do with this. Is there a pool there now or are you putting a pool in? >> There is a pool. >> Thank you. >> Okay. I just wanted to know. >> Well, we'll be making it accessible.

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>> I'm going to have to make a reservation to visit that attic room that I was in in the 70s. >> I have no pro I had no problem with the six foot height. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you all very much. We really appreciated all your comments.

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>> Uh we're not we have not yet filed. We're still waiting on the final site plan. >> Okay, guys. Again, thank you. It was not not an easy one. Okay. Uh well, there's a number of things we should be having a brief discussion

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about. >> Uh I see Mr. Niccastro uh is online. Welcome Dean. Thank you very much for for attending. Uh so under new business, we have some items which we're going to be discussing. We you know we've been

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ongoing. The first one is the discussion of preservation restrictions that protect our passen Briggs just left. Ellen, I'm sorry I shouldn't interrupt the meeting like that, but uh she did.

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And so uh in discussion with uh protect our past, there had been the issue of preservation restrictions and potentially resident of Chadam who would like to proceed with one. Uh as a result of that uh the town of Chattam we holds

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up a preservation restriction on a property the YWCA in the old village and we would think we'd like to do it again but as part of that process uh we need uh if not consent but cooperation with the select board who actually holded the

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restriction. So I just would like a uh kind of an informal motion from the board uh the commission so to speak. I will write a a correspondence to the select board, Mr. Niccastro, to provide a uh consult with the uh town attorney

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uh relative to the process of a u of a preservation restriction and things that we andor that the town has to do to proceed. The majority of the effort falls upon the applicant, not us nor the town, but we are involved. And so anyway, any questions for the members of

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the commission? Good. Um, do we have a general consensus? I will proceed with that letter if there's no objection. Thank you. So, we will get that off that letter, that correspondence to you, Mr. Niccastro. Thank you very much. Appreciate that.

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Secondly, uh, the Coast Guard boat house, hurrah, as they say. Uh, finally it happened. Uh, you know, I like to blow our own horn, but this commission years ago,

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our dear friend Don Aman, who's who's no longer with us, and uh, uh, Stu Smith, myself, Dave Dary, and Dick Ryder, a couple other people, you know, kind of met like, hey, wouldn't it be a great idea if we could save that

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boat house? And here we are, you know, 20ome years later, you know, it happened. Not only we save, but we're bringing it back to Chadam. So, I think it's I think it's great. U but there's still a ways to go. It's here, but

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there's modifications that need to be made to the building to up make it an upweller. I just want to report that myself, uh the vice chair, and and Nancy, the clerk, uh are there's a meeting uh this Friday, I believe, with

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Greg Burman, Dr. Burman on the issue of the restoration not of the exterior not on the interior. Uh we did this commission had discussions with uh Dr. Donovan another dearted soul about how

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that work would be done from a design perspective and were we going to be able to actually save some of the historical elements of the exterior or not change it. We have a general re a general we had a general consensus with the town

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and uh we all agreed but now we're down to actually writing the updating the drawings and specifications. We want to do that. There's one interesting thing. Do you have the drawings? >> I do. >> Uh uh Christina is going to pull up some drawings. Dick Ryder, who was a former

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Navy uh commander and very active in the in saving the boat house, uh had the original drawings as you can see on the on the screen of the construction >> and note there are no dormers

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and we don't know how where the dormas came from. the the the uh anecdotal information is that these are the original drawings, but then there was a decision to add dormers and because the dormers look like they're original, but they're added. But that's one of the defining characters of the existing

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building when you look at it. And of course, the two large doors, uh the garage doors, which was the entrance way. I think you have another one showing the showing the the boats going up. If you could slip to that. This is like showand tell, right? uh

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>> picture >> and she's getting it. But here this is this is the a picture of the boat house I think from the 30s and you can see the boat the dorm is in place the red roof the white colors and then the uh the railway uh where the boats were were

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then put on uh put on that rail and brought into the boat house. I think we have a picture. We have a video actually. You don't have that. No. Of it actually being put in. And of course, the really historic thing was the the Coast Guard 36500, the historic

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Pendleton boat was was in that building for repair. Mr. Ryder, Dick Ryder, uh, who's a bit of a historian, corrected me. He said the 36500 did not was not stored there. It was brought in for

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maintenance and you know I'm not I'm this is an historical commission but I love to be corrected when somebody corrects corrects me and so that's this I think that's all the drawings we have. So we do have these drawings and I think it's it's really significant. The other part of the significance of these

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drawings and the information from people like Dick Ryder is Eric Dre our preservation consultant is updating our form B. He's gathering information on our form B because the next job that we as a commission, if we concur, is to

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submit an application to Mass Historic on the the so-called determination of eligibility of the boat house as a national register property. Eric feels the best thing to do is to wait until the the ren restoration is

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complete on the exterior and not necessarily interior so he can get some good pictures that would further our cause of the uh getting it listed. I love looking at this picture because at the end of that railroad uh the the pier

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there the town I guess in 2000 something insisted that the owners take that out because they were all come uh what's the word the the the pillars that >> pilings >> they were rotting and they were leeching

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out the uh uh >> I forget what >> would be the pilings wouldn't it >> pilings copper, copper, chlorine, whatever. >> Well, whatever. It was leeching out toxic material and they decided to remove it and serendipity. That's when I

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was looking to get a mooring for my boat. So, my mooring is right at the end of it. So, thank you very much. Anyway, >> Dean has his hand raised. >> Hand raised. >> Okay. Uh anyway, so that's where we are on that on that particular issue. Is

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someone in this public? Yes, >> Dean. >> Frank. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. I just wanted to mention, and I know Greg Burman is aware of this, uh, last week at our select board meeting, um, I think it's Jason Alton, if I have

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his name correct correctly, um, represented, um, that he is in possession of some original uh, specification drawings for the boat house and offered to make them available to the town. So, it. Dean, this is it.

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These are the drawings. >> These are the ones. Okay. All right. All right. Well, thank you. I just wanted to make sure >> very much. Jared Fulture made that comment. >> Jared Fulture. >> Yeah. I have the wrong wrong name. Sorry. >> That's okay. I saw him after the meeting and he said it was Dick Ryder. So, I

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contacted Dick and who's in Florida now and he, you know, new new world now. He he emailed me the documentation. So, we have that and uh we will submit. One last thing about the boat house and it does affect Mr. Niccastro.

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>> At that select board meeting, I kind of gave a personal I said, "Gee, wouldn't it be great if we named the boat house after uh Dr. Dr. >> Duninson >> Duncin who did so much. I mean, the boat house wouldn't be back without Dr. Duncin. He's the one who actually agreed

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that we could replace it the with with the boat house versus what he was going to build." I think I started a controversy because there was immediate discussion at the select board meeting. Well, maybe not Dr. Duncinson. Then there were five or six different other or three or four other names being put

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forward. As part of that, Mr. Niccastro, you know, who likes to get things settled down. He asked me as chair of the historical commission to come back to the commission and to provide a little bit of guidance, you know, from an historic point of view. What do we

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think it should be it should be named? Uh I want to add again from Mr. Ryder, Dick Ryder. He gave me a couple of suggestions. So I'm going to put something together where people have come back to me and gave suggestions of how we should honor the boat house and

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the naming and then I would like to have a discussion maybe at the next meeting or the one after. We have time. If you guys can think about it or if you have any historical research of significant issues and how the boat boat house should be on it or some person or

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individual should be on it. Mr. Ryder's suggestion it should be on it in names of all of the Coast Guard men who served and etc etc. But I'll give you something definitive. So anyways that's just something you know to talk about. Frank. Frank. >> Yes, sir.

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>> I just wanted to add, yes, I think we would appreciate I know I would appreciate it if the commission were to provide a recommendation back to the select board on this. Uh, and I did want to note um that Dr. Duncinson did serve

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in the Coast Guard. >> Yes, he was a coast, as they say, the term they use. >> Thank you very much. Okay, moving right along. >> 15 minutes, guys. Um uh I next item was Eric Bay, Eric Dre

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and the form B and just that he is proceeding on that. The funding on that is going to be split. Eric at this point is going to be assembling information on the form B as part of the current contract which we have Eric on to do the

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form B's. And u I think we have something on the agenda on that if I can find it. There it is under old business. So there's a continued discussion of the new form B's and Nancy you had you had you conver uh contacted Eric. Where are

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we with that then? What's the best way to proceed? >> I just was waiting until he I knew that he was working again. And I knew last time I asked about it, he was they were putting the contract together and I just have some um you know there's some forms that need correcting but

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>> okay the issue >> but I'd be happy to be sorry if you need someone to be involved with Eric in the process I'd be happy to be a point person for the commission. >> That would be great. I'm sure Christina would love to offload that particular task. So effectively what we're doing here member of the members of commission

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is you know Eric has a contract to do I don't know 33 new form B's more formbs and Nancy has pointed out well wait a second in addition to the new form B's there are some other form B's which have some significant changes or correction

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and asking Eric to do that and I think unless there's a severe objection from any member of the commission I think that's a good way to kind of steer our uh uh our direction to Eric. So, and we'll let Nancy be the point person on

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that. Nancy, thank you very much. I do appreciate >> Could I just say one thing about the contract? I believe the contract is 33 new formbs, not updated formb. So, I know Nancy, I think you did have a list that there were at least a couple that do not have formbs. So, I don't know if

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that changes things with Eric. I I know they're new formb. >> Right. So you've you've defined already the 33 that he's going to do. So we could potentially add like say let's do these and >> so they are not defined. It's just 33.

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So maybe I can discuss with him then how that looks and bring it back to you guys. Okay. >> Yeah. I mean I know the contract listed a specific number but the contract is related to manh hours >> to put so many manh hours in. So it's 33 or 31. I think we're we're okay. and you

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know >> and some of the revised like I kind of know like what the issue is and it could be easily fixed. I just don't know the process of formally revising and uploading it again to Macris or whatever. So >> that would be great. That would be excellent. Thank you very much Nancy.

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Okay, going quickly. Uh we're still waiting for Holly Herbster and the the formal application to on the Nichson Family Association. Um and the only thing of significance uh on my chairman's report so to speak

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is we have actually made a determination and the list of the actual uh winners of the preservation awards. Did we provide that list to the members? >> I did not provide that list but I can >> uh I have Christina will do that rather

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than spending time here. There were 11 applications which were approved by the committee. Janet and I are your representatives and I think it's it's a good mix of of homes and u so we're proceeding for the next the next uh next phase which is the the boards. Would you

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know what we could do? Why don't you send the boards copies of the boards to the members? >> I can do that. They're Yep. It might be too large but I'll figure it out somehow. I'll put a link in. >> Okay. Not physical copies. Electric. >> No. Yes. Electric. Yeah. >> Electronic. Uh these are the so-called

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boards that are the things we present at the meeting. You guys are familiar with it and those boards have were assembled by Christina uh Nancy helping out uh Gaelen from the historical society. So

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there was a joint effort and and I think I think it should be good effort and a good uh ceremony in June when we have it. Yes. Stephanie, >> wasn't there a complaint once that we were honoring too many? >> Yes. Well, I I thank you very much for bringing that up. Uh uh I had a

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conversation with Miss Donovan and the fact that we're going every other year, okay, rather than every year, that was an acknowledgement. The other issue is we're going to have the ceremony at the Maronei building, which is a much larger

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facility, and and yes, we're going to have to move things along. >> Okay. Right. And whoever this the master ceremony is going to need a hook, you know, like please give me a one minute. You have one minute to thank us. So, you know, I think it'll be okay. I think if

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we're more comfortable there and the setting is good, you know, we we'll uh it'll be fine. You know, it's hard to to limit these things. And quite candidly, we had to reject two applications this year. Not that we had to, but there were

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two applications which really didn't meet the full criteria and the consensus of the board. So, you know, we're we're honing it out. Um, but let's put it this way, guys. This process, thanks to Nancy, who was in the original uh what year was how many years ago?

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>> I think the first one that we actually held was 2004. >> Did we do that at CBI? >> Yes. >> CBI. Free orve CBI. The audience was packed. it was so you know anyway but

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anyway so here we are so thank you very much I do appreciate um uh all the activities you know one last thing I want to say is you know guys uh the historical commission in my view is more than more about hearing applications I think you know some of the things we do

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are important to you know fostering uh people's appreciation of uh of you know of Chadam and his historical historical uh history. Last but not least, guess what? The old Ben Franklin used to be

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the&P. I guess you read that article in the Chronicle. >> Y >> good old Tim Woods pointed it out. Unfortunately, the HBDC met and didn't know that. >> No comment about the historical uh uh

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history of and what the ABBC. Anyway, the it got to ZBA and it was pointed out by ZBA to ZBA Tim Wood, but ZBA didn't take any action or could not refer it back to the HBDC because the way the the

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works once the HBDC makes a determination. That's it. There's no appeal. Uh just so you know, I somehow got involved to request it and I am working with the uh the current owner's

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attorney, uh Mr. Riley, but Lily Pulitzer, who's the applicant, try to find a way that we could maybe get a an accommodation. But between you and I, I don't think we're going to be able to save it in that

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location. But I do have an alternate and I don't want to reveal that alternate yet, but we might have a way to save it. Maybe not in that location. Uh, and it's not going to be in my front drawer, but but some way to keep it in Chattam. And so we're working on that. Okay. Thank

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you very much. I've done enough. All right. Anything else? Anybody want to add anything on this or future agendas? Janet's smiling and laughing. I can't tell. Well, Frank, you know what the uh it's

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How are we going to get those tiles? You know, they're they're like this thick. >> Trust me. >> Yeah. No, it's great. I think but but I don't think it should be buried in the Lily Pulitzer uh doorway. >> We're going to try not to bury it in the Pulitzer doorway,

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>> but we also got a way to way to protect it. It's going to cost a little bit money. >> Feel like making a donation. >> Have we got the money? >> No. The town does though. But >> so we're working there. It's like >> Sorry. Do we have a form? Is there a form B on it? There must be. >> No.

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>> Ben Franklin. >> Yeah. >> Under Ben Franklin. >> I mean, it's quite, you know, it's been there at least. I mean, I realize that when >> we'll find out. We're doing this real time. >> What's the address? >> It's a good question. >> Oh, Main Street.

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>> The address is 631 Main Street. >> I don't think so. Anyways, I was just going to say if we did have one that, you know, it's worthwhile getting some photo documentary evidence and adding it to the form B. It's part of the interesting

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history. >> Yeah. >> I apologize to the members of the public who may be watching this and may want to switch to another channel, but uh >> there is >> there is a form B. what Christina our I never know what her

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title is uh but she's helps us without her we're nothing >> a liaison >> is checking online >> mass historic commission >> she's got >> what's called the macro this is good education here and uh and he's picking

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up in macros on and that is what we keep referring to the formbb's and what you see on the screen >> forb >> is the so-called history of the for of the Ben Franklin as we know it. The question does it say anything about the

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A&P? >> Probably not. >> Or it may list the fact that there was an AMP there, but maybe anything about the uh the Mosaics. >> Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't. >> But this comes under the historic business district,

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>> HBDC. We have no authority. >> Oh, so we can't um Okay. >> We can only if they ask us. But I think I think we should um you know make sure that I mean these obviously sorry but I do care about the narrative history and when we just have

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owner names and we know there's an interesting narrative history I feel like we should capture it and add it and we know there's a mosaic and we know it was so maybe I'll talk we should be part of the HBDC process. No, I think our form B which is under our control should

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reflect the history as we know it and it doesn't say anything about it being an AMP or there being a mosaic and I think since we know it we should just update it. >> Oh, we can update that. >> That's all I'm saying. >> Well, that is our our under our purview the formb. >> Yeah. Well, the other thing to be

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hopeful helpful is that hopefully we can maybe uh ask the HBDC to ensure that when they have an application do they get the form B's? I believe they do. Um, one other thing, too. You could put in that it was a Ben Franklin.

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>> Well, yeah, exactly. We're gonna want to update that for >> Okay, great. All right, guys. I apologize. We're close to 12:00 lunchtime. All right, if nobody else has anything else, I think we we had a good meeting here and we I think you guys did good today. All right, that's not you

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care what I say, but that's how I feel. All right, uh, we're going to need a motion to adjurnn, unless somebody else >> I move we adjourn this meeting. Second. >> Okay. No other discussion. Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. >> Stephanie, >> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Janet, >> yes.

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>> Peter, >> yes. >> Chair votes. Thank you very much. >> Nice job, guys.