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good morning hi uh I'm Frank Msina and this is the April 1st 2025 meeting of the Chattam Historical Commission uh before we begin have a few announcements please note this meeting is being re
will is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording this meeting please notify the chairman pursuant to Governor Healey's March 29
2023 signing of acts of 2023 extending certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general law 3020 until June 30th
2027 here we go guys they're going to continue this thing this meeting of the Chattam historical commission is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for
in the order a reminder that persons who would like to listen to the meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 9454410 conference ID 170223340 hashtag or join the meeting
online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the posted agenda while this meeting is a live broadcast and simalcast on Cadam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for real time access we will post a record of this meeting on the town's
website as soon as possible so 2027 we're still in the in the business here of being online okay uh first order of business is a roll call bob Leer here nancy
Bar nancy has been calling in from her sandy was going to call in too i don't know i guess Nancy is not yet online stephanie Hamilton here sandy Porter same with Sandy okay janet
Tennyson here robert Stevens and Robert Wilson here okay so we have uh three members of MIA but we do have and the chair is here but we do have a a a quorum and we are proceed um
every time I look at this piece of paper I remind members of the public the two people who are listening in addition to the applicant that we do have an open position uh for the historical commission and u like you to consider joining us thank you very much all right
we have a relatively short agenda we'll do the minutes next and a few things to discuss but we have a straightforward agenda uh we have the minutes of March 18 2025 i assume everybody has had a copy and a chance to look at
it i have one comment Annie on page two the second paragraph down the last sentence in that paragraph the Nichson Association has committed uh committed the to donate has already
committed to make a donation to this process they haven't donated yet we're still waiting for a discussion between myself and Katie in terms of the funding necessary to proceed but we'll talk
about that any other questions or comments corrections on the minutes i move that we accept the minutes from uh March 18th 2025 second thank you very much any other comments Bob um yes steph yes janet yes
robert yes and the chair votes yes uh failed to mention uh Robert Stevens is a u an alternate but because of the absence of regular members he will be participating and
voting as a regular Robert Wilson robert Wilson what did I say too many Roberts too many Bobs okay sorry about that mr wilson okay again we have one hearing
one application uh the application is uh 20005 uh to be heard in accords with chapter 158 the address is 255 Old Harbor Road and this is a change to a previous uh decision that we had made
uh this you this property is on the national reg excuse me is not on the national register but there is a form B on this property uh the discussion here today is relative to the front porch and there is some
discussion u so the applicant is online or the applicant's representative so why don't you introduce yourself and just tell us quickly what you are proposing to do dedra
you're muted we can't hear you press the microphone you know we're continuing to think to 2027 it's a real pain let me tell you it really is
we're still You're still not here hold on say again they're muted they're not muted they have a bigger tech can they call in you know what what I would like you to do because we would
like to proceed with this but we can't hear you and it's funny I was having a conversation with Christina when she told me this thing is continued to 2027 can you hear me shake your head if you can hear me yes okay i was telling Christina that at some point the chair
is going to say we don't have good communication we're going to adjourn this meeting but what I'd like you to do being you can hear me is call in on the phone and the number is 508
9454410 is that correct Annie you got that so if you call in and then they have to put the conference ID and just let them know they do not need we don't need to see them if they want yeah we can just if you just you could
talk to us we don't need to see you is the technical problem on our end or their end our end their end i thought he said it was on our Yeah id when he calls in will we hear them
yes id number yep so we need to put the conference ID number in you need to put the conference ID in when they ask for it the conference ID and the phone number are in the chat if you want to look on your screen i wonder if the town has an option not
to do this online or not say again require people to come to the meeting when they have I don't know we'll have to ask maybe our our select board representative whether we have that option of requiring a me requiring an applicant
to come to the meeting because we have so many technical difficulties with you know pushing the button or whatever um well I can't say for certain but obviously today you've advertised this as a hybrid meeting I believe so you're
kind of stuck with that for today yeah but going forward um I I think my gut tells me you can do it i mean I would I would check with um Yeah our manager's office because we haven't hear them is that the story
in fact I was even thinking about that at some point because we have some terrible communication as chair I could say I'm I'm going to adjourn this meeting because we don't have proper communication i think it's valid because we can You can do that you could do that
i mean you have some other items that are not right exactly case related you might deal with those and reschedu this are excuse me are you You guys can hear me right so you're calling in and it's not
working excuse me Frank should we could we want to move on to the discussion items and give them a couple minutes can they participate by phone or is that going to That's what trying to do trying to even do that you're trying on the phone and it's not
working um you know it's funny i watched a movie about Helen Keller the other night shouldn't kid around you know in some ways we might be able to
proceed can't get ID to go through can't get the ID to go through you could ask them to leave the meeting and come back in okay we're getting some information from our technical people uh could what you
should do is is leave the meeting in other words you know leave the meeting and then sign in again and try that okay all right so we're going to just take a brief uh respit here with with this
application hearing at one at what I don't think anybody objects to it and we have a couple of other things we could talk about quickly uh under old business and hopefully we'll we'll make have a
connection uh the first item in old business uh is the review of commission rules and regulation the issue of administrative appro administrative approval the possible delegation of the issue of historical significance interesting i had a call from an
attorney on that very subject on an applicant that's coming it just turned 75 and you know and I did indicate to him what we're going to share now is we have requested through uh the director
of community development Miss Donovan uh an opinion from town council whether or not we can delegate the process of historical significance the issue has been my interpretation of the current
bylaw only the commission can determine whether something is historically significant and that's not the case with other towns they delegate that to other elements other people in on to staff for instance or to a consultant and the
reason we want to do that for the public here is that we have situations where an applicant is almost clearly not historically significant but it does meet the criteria of 75 years of age and we're spending a lot of time and money
for both the applicant and the town in having hearings for these things so that's where we are the other element review is the issue of potentially limiting the continued requests for an applicant for continuence this was
brought about by maybe one or two applicants who continue to ask for continuances and we do that and I asked Mr lear our vice chair if he wanted to take a shot at drafting some words bob
what is your comments on that well um the section in our current regulations oh sorry the section in our current regulations says an applicant may for any reason request a continuence of the hearing to a future date prior to the commencement of the hearing that has to
be in writing an applicant may also request a continuance at any time during a hearing so the regulations seem to say or they don't say anything about the board or the commission turning down the request for continuance now obviously
there's there may be a basis for it but um I I it's it's what what situation we're aiming at and the other factor I think as a practical matter most of the continuants are suggested by the
commission that the applicant come back with a different plan and they they have to acqui have to ask acquies to that continuence because they're the only ones that can request the continuence it i don't I don't know whether we can
draw a line that says any request for continuence um that we don't like can be turned down or whatever because it doesn't seem to automatically follow from that or I guess if we're saying you're wasting our time we're not going to allow you to do
that again well no i think I mean you know I I don't believe the issue is wasting our time or the town's time i think the issue and I think Christina and I talked about it is the fact that public notice you know when there's
an applicant for a significant change to a uh historic structure or contributing structure national register district you know the drawings are made available to the public the public has an opportunity to come and to
comment and sometimes the you know it's a very important application and there's a lot of public comment now if in fact the changes that are being discussed are so significantly different than what the applicant the public doesn't really the
only way the public knows that something is going on is if they tune into the meeting and know that there's a continuence and do we have any kind of obligation to keep the public informed that an applicant is completely
different than what was originally proposed and now for instance if I understand the regulations Christina uh when an applica people are notified within a certain number of feet of the applicant that is correct 50 feet 50 feet and but
they're not notified again if they have to listen to the meeting to know what's going on that is correct yeah okay that was the only issue Bob that I had thought about maybe that you know or maybe the maybe the criteria is for us
to decide that your revised application that you're asking us to continue is so significantly different than the original one we feel that you we should start the process over again and submit a new application with public notice etc
etc would that require them to pay for a new notice well that was a good question uh you know I don't know maybe we'll give him a discount but uh but I wasn't gonna I wasn't going to address that i was going to address the process u Well I I think that you're that the problem
you described is is legitimate um particularly since if if as you say if the if the person didn't come to or watch the first hearing they wouldn't know that it's happening again unless they looked at the uh agenda that shows
up in the chronicle or or whatever method it doesn't really show up in the chronicle we only advertise it once no but the agenda that comes out it doesn't advertise the chronicle it's it's posted online but not in the chronicle all right i know i understand but it is it
is a way to legally you're right sort of it is kind of notice if you're interested you should be looking at the town website for the agenda but who is you know you don't even know what week to look in you'd have to look every week for the next months or something maybe
anecdotally so to speak but without having to change the rules and regulations we as a commission can kind of agree that when the changes are so significant that we we ask the applicant we would
not like to continue this we would like you to submit a new application but you know but that puts the onus back on well what that is I guess technically that might be consider consider withdrawing the application you
can't come back for two years no no we don't have that requirement this is not the zoning board if somebody if somebody is denied or withdraws an application to the historical commission I don't think we have well maybe I'm wrong you I haven't read the
rules and regulations in a while do we have a time um the next or two two paragraphs down from what I just summarized the commission shall be under no obligation to accept and rehear an application prior to the two-year expiration of the
previous determination determination unless there have been substantive changes to the application so Yeah I guess it's two if we make a determination i.e deny it then they
can't come back next week and get another vote unless they make a substantial change to the application right all right maybe we're making much to do about nothing and just leave it the other just factor to look in there I checked with some folks on the zoning board and they don't have anything like
you were describing they say "We're going to be tough about it if if you want a continuence you're going to have to withdraw that's all and refile." Okay all right that's sort of draconian if it's some
not so big thing well is everybody comfortable to leave it as is and we just have to use our own judgment then yes okay all right uh I see you're back uh have do we have
communication uh we're here can you hear us all right very good we're back oh good sorry about that okay all right we solved the problem at least the gremlins did
so can can they uh Yes how does that work to make them large we can see them actually does it matter it doesn't there you go thank you all right okay last time we left
this we were at the point where uh uh we're asking you to say say a couple of words but before you do that uh get two steps in this process the first step in the process is to determine whether or not this property
is historically significant and if we do then we can continue if we don't then there's no there's no no There's no other decisions to be made by the commission so I guess what I'd like to ask and I don't think the applicant is going to be objecting to it unless you
are to continue an uh a motion relative to reaffirming the historical significance of 255 Old Harbor Road i move what you just said okay so I guess motion reaffirming historical
significance 255 Old Harbor Road all right got a second second uh Bob yes steph yes janet yes robert yes and the chair vote yes i guess it was a good motion okay now you're back you're on
could give us a quick overview of what you're doing and why you're changing what we previously approved which was the uh porches and other changes go ahead okay thank you Mr chairman um just speak
up i'm here with uh Wes Faucet and I are the general on the job we've been remodeling this house for past three years on our final uh steps for completing the job we were
going to originally connect the two lower porches on the front and the side that were never connected uh and we got your permission to do so when we started taking off the front porch the condition of the framing was
rotted so badly that we had to remove it and we're going to rebuild it when the homeowner noticed came down and saw that the uh front porch was off and flooded the inside of the house with light she
loved it and that's why we're here to take that front portion off reconstruct the side portion according to the plan in front of you and uh uh again being a restoration builder I know
that front porch neither of those front porches were part of the original house my guess is from the uh inspection on the framing stock and the nailing my guess is that porch was put on 80 to 100 years ago regardless with that off it
exposes the original uh front door in the dining room which is uh unique in its work with glass and trim and moldings which we're going to restore and modify the side porch to um
accommodate an entry into the kitchen basically that's it okay um we had a a site visit yesterday uh I guess myself and uh Robert were there and
hopefully some of you folks got a chance to stop by this we're not new to this property it's been before us uh a couple of times um I have to say quite honestly just personally before we get your comments I
was looking at the design as presented uh and I did a little bit of research relative to understanding whether that originally big porch in the front was part of it and it pro it wasn't you know when you go back and take a look at some
of the history of it and quite honestly from my perspective the elimination of that big porch in the front you kind of enhances the Greek revival style of the house and and that entrance and also I'm
saying too much but the uh this putting that side porch on and making it smaller also just just fit seems to fit in now I'm become an architect so I agree with you yeah okay Janet I agree I think it's
a better um it looks better and it's not losing the historical um integrity i don't think I Yeah much more appealing yeah good design Bob i I agree with all that i think it that
opening it up makes it look both look better and I think fits more with sort of your historical idea of what something like that would look like the Greek Revival House yeah it's quite a you know impressive structure and I you know would like to thank the
owner you know for the work that they're doing uh I think doing a good job so I I think we kind of uh all in violent agreement of uh allowing this to proceed as it's presented having said that Mr
um the Cadam Historical Commission also finds the proposed work to be done dated March 3rd 2025 will not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the commission does not impose demolition delay second thank you very much any
other comments members of the public for against okay bob yes steph yes janet yes robert yes the chair votes yes thank you very much uh and again as I said I really do appreciate the care that this
applicant is performing to kind of restore this old Greek revival uh house uh and appreciate it one comment I would make to you uh while you're there still on uh the historical commission every two
years does what's called a preservation award and quite honestly the work you guys have done to that house taking off that old aluminum siding and and the and the detail and the moldings you know you've done quite a nice job but it's something if it's work is completed in
this year 2024 and I'm sure you are because I'm sure the applicant wants you to get out of there but u it's something to consider and we'll we'll put you on a list when we have uh it's an application process the owner or the builder submits an application for a preservation award
then it's evaluated and we there's no money prize you get a plaque you know that acknowledges the work that you did in the house we have a little ceremony but anyway I just thought about it because it really is a charming uh charming Greek revival uh and that is a very historic street there's a lot of
really nice historic homes on that street well again thank you very much thank you very much and uh I'd just like to say that we as a team would like to thank Mrs cook and her family for allowing us to go to the extremes that
we have to restore the house she's very sensitive um about all of it and has taken very taken very carefully and seriously so we just like to thank her and thank you guys well again thank you much i'm
glad we solved the communication problem yeah my apologies yeah thanks for your time thank you okay yeah i Well I kind of sidetracked myself with that but this year we do I guess is
it 2024 the awards would be the work commit uh we do it in in next year yeah so the applications will be ready probably in October and due in January of 2026 right and then we'll have them in the spring of 2026 26 so just anyway
if you could start thinking about houses that we've done in the past and and and uh which which be worthy and I you know I think it's a good process i think the certainly the owners and the builders tend to appreciate that work and it's great for the town and I just wanted to let you know I already have a list of
people that that want an application in October oh good really yes yeah probably six or seven maybe we have to have a conversation with Miss Donovan that we're going to go back to what do we I think the current limitation is five or four i'm not sure but it we lowered it
because we weren't getting as many applications but I think people are It goes You'll get nothing or we get 10 all right uh I believe you on the committee with me yes you are thank you very much
okay uh moving along quickly uh going to set a record oh no we got five minutes the uh you all received uh a copy electronically of the uh finally the the determination of eligibility
submitted to Mass Historic uh in my conversations with Holly Holly Herbster the PLA archaeologist she thinks we should get a a quick response within 30 30 days or 60 days so that would be good i've already continued
discussions with Miss Donovan community development relative to the funding necessary we received a revise I did give it to you right the revised quote from Holly uh which to take us to the next
phase for her to prepare the uh report i think it's about 10 or 15,000 and um so that's that's you know hopefully ongoing and we'll get that done in this year 2024 allow us to uh submit the what
we're talking about is the Ann and William Nicholson uh homestead as an as listed on the national register of historic places or an historic site this property is uh owned by the conservation Chattam Conservation Foundation and and
Nichlson Family Association have really been providing most of the work to get this thing done okay uh form A form B um this is the issue of us proceeding with Eric Dre our preservation consultant updating the form A's and form B's so I guess the
ball's in your court right now it is yeah we're g we're working on um I've talked to Katie and we're working on probably getting a meeting together with Eric Dre and seeing the working to get a meeting together with Eric Dre and looking at the next steps okay
good uh demolition by neglect we're neglecting her um I'm waiting for Christina Grady is town principal planner to to get us some priority on that and provide some kind of a staff report i I sense that she
doesn't feel she can or we should but we need a real heart-to-heart talk with her uh you know I still feel there's there's something we can do we shouldn't just ignore it and say "Well it's too difficult." We've we've never shied away for difficult things and I don't want to do it on this thing
either the uh my favorite pastime the uh Coast Guard boat house uh the town has actually put out a request for uh for services to hire what's called an
OPM the uh owner's project manager and this is for the town to do the work which was authorized by the previous town meeting to put the pilings in at 90 Bridge Street and when that's done then we would then
move the uh Coast Guard boat house from Quincy and back into uh to Chattam to put on those pilings and for the town then to begin the effort to create the uh or recreate the uh upweller at that
property it's a big deal and it's almost I guess almost 15 or 20 years that I've been involved trying to save that thing but hopefully bring it back it's still in fine condition you know and it's built built to last and I think will be
a a really great historical asset for the town at that location 90 Bridge Street the current projection of the boat house is fall 2016 for it to come back 2016 right um 26 2026 yeah I lost 10
years so uh that's that's kind of where we are staying close to it uh that's kind of all I have the only other thing I just quickly if I may on on so-called chairman's report uh the
Pinrose the 1550 Main Street housing development the 40B project u and it since they were here making their proposal of the concept they were at the HBDC I think we discussed it last time
HBDC had some strong words about its design and and the lack of variety and the design and uh you know the uniformity of the structures as well as the some very strong comments the
need for the community center uh they since then they presented to the planning board the planning board didn't have too many significant comments in my opinion and the next step in this process is the so-called comprehensive
permit by the zoning board of adjustment effectively the zoning board of adjustment acts as the historical commission the planning board and the zoning board in other words they they review the applicant considering all the uh the other boards
but there's only one board reviewing it and only one decision uh it's not been scheduled they have not submitted they being PIMRO as the developer has not submitted the comprehensive uh uh request for a
comprehensive uh permit to the ZBE once that happens I I'm hopeful and I'm I'm sure they will whether I'm asked or not they will ask the the planning board the zoning the historical commission and the HBDC to provide comments so I would like
we did the last time I'll prepare something send it around you know the just to re reiterate you know our comments hopefully when they submit something to the ZBA it's different than what they presented to us that you know
we a lot of us been making comments and and the thing that kind of bothered me is what they presented to the planning board to the historical commission the ZBA the HBDC and to to the uh the planning board there was the same thing they didn't really make any changes and
it really you know they they decided to paint the doors different color or something like that so from my perspective from historical preservation a lot more needs to be done to make that fit into the community from a historic perspective so that's that's kind of
where we are and uh we'll stay tuned son of a gun i don't have anything else unless anybody has something else they want to bring up as Christina indicated we potentially may not have a meeting on the 15th because we do not have applications and
unless something significant happens we'll probably skip that meeting but we do have at least two for the following the following meeting so having said that nothing else motion for adjournment please
i move we adjourn the meeting i second okay bob yes steph yes janet yes robert yes and the chair vote yes thank you very much