Heat. Heat. N. Hi, I'm Frank and this is >> Speak to your micro. Um, >> we're gonna do that again. Take two. Good morning. Hi, this is Frank Msina and this is the February 3rd, 2026 meeting of the Chattam Historical
Commission. Uh before we start, we have a couple of announcements that need to be made. Please note, this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is
recording the meeting, including the use of AI note takingaking apps, please notify the chairman. Seeing none, pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extending
certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general law 3020 until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Chattam Historical Commission is
being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that people who would like to listen to this meeting while is in progress may do so by calling the
phone number 5089454410 conference ID 999732579 hashtag or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link on the posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simalcast on Chattam TV,
Xfinity channel channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide for real time access. Thank you very much. Okay. Uh first item
of business is the roll call. Uh we have members present and also online. Uh vice chair Bob Leer >> here. Nancy Bar, clerk >> here. >> Nancy is online. Stephanie Hamilton.
Stephanie is not here. She's online. Nope. Okay. Robert Stevens >> here. >> Very good. Janet Tennyson >> here. >> Robert Wilson >> here. >> Robert is online. Sandy Porter
>> here. Very good. And the chair is here. We have a a quorum and I do appreciate it. This is kind of an an abbreviated meeting. Uh but let's let's proceed. We have one or two things just to quickly discuss and one action to be taken. Let's we might as well do the minutes
that we have. Uh we have the minutes of what minutes we have January 20th. >> January 6th. >> What's the minutes of these? Did I pick the wrong one up? >> What is it? Oh, >> I grabbed the wrong one.
>> They I think it was just this. These are the correct minute. These are January 20th. She just put the wrong date >> at the top. >> Yeah, they're January 20th. >> That we did it right then.
No, January 6 meets we're doing. >> So, this is incorrect. This date is incorrect. It should be January 20th. We are doing the January 20th minutes today. >> Okay. Now you're we're doing the January 20th minutes. >> Yes. She put the wrong date. >> Okay.
>> It should be January 20th. >> Okay. Clear as mud. >> Got it. >> I know you guys are trying to just make sure I'm paying attention. I try. All right. Any corrections or deletions or
>> to the minutes? >> I I move we accept the minutes of January 20th meeting. >> Okay. We a second. >> Second. >> Thank you very much. Uh Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes.
>> Stephen, Robert Stevens, >> yes. >> Janet Tennyson, >> yes. >> Robert Wilson, >> yes. >> Sandy Porter, >> yes. >> And the chair votes yes. Thank you very much. Okay, back to
to business. We have there's one item on the agenda from a business point of view and that's was a hearing. We had a hearing uh on 65 Elephantes Lane uh 2543
uh chapter 158 and also in the Cape Cod Commission. There's been extensive discussion on this item and um and meetings uh some between myself, the chair and the Cape Cod Commission and also with the uh building inspector Jay
Briggs. I haven't had a chance to talk to him today to find out where we are. But but the bottom line is there seems to be an attempt to reach a compromise and an agreement with the applicant, not necessarily with the commission thus far.
uh but with the uh the residents nearby. So the applicant again uh represented by Bill Riley has sent the piece of correspondence ask one more that we continue the matter from today to March 17th.
I personally don't see any reason why we should not do that because it looks like we're going to this is a thorny one. Okay. And it looks like we may be able to get some kind of a compromise here to allow this go forward. So, um, let me just for members of the public, uh, this
is a complicated application because it's a a piece of, uh, a property in the old village. Uh, actually, it's right near Peas Boat Works. It's cut right in the heart of the uh, Old Village National Register District. And, um, so
there's a lot of concern with the folks who live nearby and the Old Village Association. And I think we all should be concerned uh on just what happens and how this proceeds because it will set some precedents because it's related to FEMA and the issue of flood zones and
what we can or cannot do to help preserve properties but still maintaining the historical character of the old village and of course in the National Registered District. Having said that speech, I guess I'd like to have a motion to agree to continue the
application 2543 to uh a date certain March 17, 2026. >> Um Frank, >> due to the confusion or whatever on this session, um should we have an al some kind of again a requirement that they
file the paperwork or their plans ahead of time? >> Yes. Okay. And if if they don't then we're going to rehear it on some date certain or do we have to go through this process again? >> Well, unfortunately that's a very good point Bob. We're meeting today because
legally um because we indicated that the meeting would be adjourned to a date certain. We have to convene a meeting. We don't have any applications today. So technically would have preferred not to have a meeting but legally we have to have a
meeting to convene and then to re and to take it forward. Bob, are you saying not say dirt not say date certain? >> No, I think it has to be to a date certain. But in other words, in this situation, we said we're going to have the a meeting on this date contingent
upon the applicant filing a plan or a proposal by last Wednesday. They didn't file it and now they want a continuence to another date. Well, we did that already. >> So, how do we get them to actually come
in here and either put something out or not? Well, you know, Bob, I I don't disagree with you, but the fact that I think there's quotes progress being made with
in terms of the applicant and the and the uh the people who are really affected significantly, the neighbors, I think we should somehow allow it to proceed. Uh, I guess the alternative is
is to to deny it. >> I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't allow it to proceed, but at some point we need some better mechanism of getting them to actually show up and present something. This has been going on since >> Sandy Sandy just took my file October.
So, >> yes, it is. >> Sandy, what's up? >> No, it's me. He just she just wanted to see the the application. >> Bring it in with me. >> I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't bring in my copy. I'm just looking at Bob's. That's
>> Oh, okay. I thought you were asking a question. It was hard to hear both of you talking at the same time. Yes. Okay. >> All right. So, that that's that's my concern. I mean, if we want to go through this again, then fine. But I it may go on until next October the way things are not moving.
>> Well, it's a it's not a it's a it's a good point, Bob. In fact, we were having Janet and I were having a conversation before the meeting relative to the zoning board and and maybe it's something got I love giving Christina assignments. Maybe it's
something we should clarify with the uh with uh Katie Donovan. What is the process? You know, what is the authority we do have relative to continue or not to continue? My understanding is that uh when an
applicant asks for a continuence, we can't we can't say we're going to continue this meeting without a a valid reason. Like we can say the applicant's incomp application's incomplete blah blah blah blah and we're going to continue it. But if the applicant asks
for a continuence, can we deny that? >> And if we do deny it, what's the next thing that happens? If we deny a continuence, uh, is it automatically approved? Christina, go ahead. >> I can check in on that, but I believe you would have to make your your determinations. You have two
determinations to make. So, if you're unwilling to continue it, I'll check into all of this, but you would have to make your determinations on the one on the chapter 158 and the KP commission. >> So, then if we don't if we if we don't continue it, then we have to make a
decision. I believe that is correct, but I will double check. >> I think that's my understanding. Bob, do you agree? >> I do, but I think the the decision can be that the application is not complete. >> That's right. >> Okay. But then we have to make a
decision. >> No, the application is not complete. >> That's right. No, >> go away. >> I don't know. >> They can do they can do that in the office. I mean, they >> Well, before we do that, because we're not sure, let's see. Let's let's get >> All right. I I will go for the March date, but I'm not happy about that.
>> We do have a a complete application. That's why it is before you. And then maybe >> Yeah, that's right. That's the point, Bob. We do have a complete application. The question is, do we vote on that application or not? And our position
thus far has been we don't want to vote on it, that we would like it to to find some kind of a compromise or else we're going to send it to the Cape Cod Commission. Traditionally, we have been avoiding to send it to the Cape Cod Commission. You know, you never know what's going to happen when you send it
there, Bob. So, we wanted more control over it because I think my own reading of it, if it went to the Cape Cod Commission, it probably would get approved in the way it is right now. >> Okay. Good. Yes. >> Well, the zone do we have different
rules on the zoning board? because the zoning board >> we got to find out >> has has denied uh continue when continuences keep coming forward they deny it and say look this is the third fourth time you've come here they just did it on little beach and they said
next time you come you have to come with a plan and we're not going to so no we're not approving and we're not continuing >> but that's the zoning board different rules completely >> but they've been back here since October >> that that's immaterial we still have
certain rules that we have to follow. Yes, Bob. >> Uh I'm going to go back to my I still think the card is before the horse here. I think uh they should reapply when they have a full package because this continuence is just upsetting everybody.
The attorneys obviously haven't really gotten together. They've had plenty of time to hash this out, but they haven't. And they need easements. They need a rights to get to the property which is no doubt tied to these negotiations and we know that's going to take a good bit
of legal work. Maybe Bob could opine on that but I don't believe by law you can be landlocked. So they have to go through some other body in order to get access. So I think we should not discontinue it. We should ask them to reapply when they have a full package.
That's my >> I I don't know what I don't know what you feel would be served by that because then if what you're saying right now if we deny the continuence what we have to do then is vote are we going to vote let
me just p that again vote to approve it or deny it? If we deny it, it will go to the Cape Cod Commission. We have information already from the Cape Cod Commission that they're inclined to approve it. But the Cape Cut
>> do we really just hold on J do we really want them do we really want a situation where we get a you know a 12 or 13 foot high building there or do we look to see if we can get a compromise what the applicant has done in conversation with him and with Michael Ford the other
attorney they're they're trying to find a compromise and that's where we are >> if we're not about compromise then where are we? Okay, >> I'm sorry. One second. Yes, >> one second. >> Hand raised. >> Hold on. Hold on, Janet. Yes. Yes,
Michael. >> Uh, hi, Mike Ford. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak. Um, I do represent the immediate debuters, uh, Ellen Gold and Kyle Gold at 61 and 63 Elephants. I just wanted to correct the
statement. U, Mr. Riley and I have met. Um, it's not that we haven't gotten together. Uh we've met three times since the last meeting. Uh and the third time was in the presence of the building commissioner which was on Thursday of uh last week. Uh we were going to meet him
on Monday but the storm uh closed the town hall so we had to put that over until Thursday. Um we are actively pursuing an alternative plan. We need guidance with respect to the the foundation and and what the latitude is. But I just wanted to assure the board
that we are working in earnest and we have met. Nobody's really sitting on their hands there. Now does there come a point at which this board um feels that u having these continuences while we try to work something out is not in keeping
with the way to handle the the uh matter. You have a right to u call us in at the next meeting if we don't have a revised plan or we don't have a um a report to you with a compromise. um to call us in and you could your option
could be to ask us to withdraw without prejudice until such time as we have a plan and we can bring it forward. To date, you've been courteous and allowed us to continue while we're trying to put together a revised plan. But you have that option as well and I know that there's a level of frustration there and
that's what the board of appeals does. The board of appeals says, "Hey, look, if you're not ready, if you're still working on your plan, um we would like you to withdraw without prejudice. you can come back. Uh sometimes they wave the fee, sometimes they don't on the relication, but that's your other
option. Um but I would hope you you'd give us till the 17th. I'm optimistic that we'll have a substantive report for you at that point. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you for the opportunity to address you. >> Okay, good. Yes, Janet.
>> So, um you said it could go to the Cape Cod Commission. Do they override us? >> Yes, >> they do. >> Yes. How can they do that? They don't have >> overrided. They have a higher authority than we do. >> Really?
>> Yes, ma'am. Any other questions? >> How can but >> Cape Cod Commission has a higher authority as it relates to the Cape Cod Commission Act? >> But how you know, even the fact that they're going to have to come in and through the water and all all this?
>> Here's the situation. We have two options. We're reviewing this under chapter 158. So we could put a demolition delay, nothing happens, they can't do anything. We could do that. In addition to that, we also refer this because of the percentage of the change
under the Cape Cod Commission Act. If we feel that the application, the way it is submitted presently that we have is a detriment to the National Registered District blah blah blah, we refer to the Cape Cod Commission. It's out of our
hands. This is This is not >> Doesn't seem fair. >> Who? Fair. What? This is the law. >> Oh, yeah. It seems fair. >> Okay, come on now, guys. We're going around. But I This is good. We're getting a better understanding of what's going on here. Frustrating. Not more
frustrated than I am, guys. But I would hope I would ask from my perspective and and also follow up what Michael Mr. Ford said. I do know that there are meetings taking place and people are trying to resolve this. It's a sticky wicket. Okay. And I think one last time and
we'll do before we have our next meeting with them the 17th, we'll get a clarification from Christina, from an attorney just what we could do. All the 20ome years I've been here, we've never had a uh uh withdrawal without prejudice. I don't know about that. I've
never heard that. We've never done that. Now, maybe I know the other boards do that. the zoning board has that. Maybe it's in their rules and regulations. I don't think we have that, but let's find out. Okay. And then we can >> Yes. >> That's what I was suggesting is that they withdraw without prejudice and that
they reapply when they've got their >> right >> plan together. That will give them enough time and it will take the edge off this constant. >> You got it. >> With no plan. They come with no plan. >> I'm sorry. Just done it. >> They they come with no plan. >> You You took it off. They come with no
plan each time. I mean, >> that's correct. >> Is that right? >> Yeah, I I agree. Okay, kids. >> Can we have a vote on the motion if we agree? >> Made a motion. >> What's the motion? >> The motion was I kind of paraphrased it.
You could say it again if you want. I'll make the motion. I move we continue uh 2543 uh 65 Elephantes Lane to the date certain March 17th, 2026 uh as requested by the applicant in
concurrence with the applicant's request, but that we also indicate that the applicant must provide what's that date? must provide the detailed information on a revised application the prior week of March 11,
2026. Second. Thank you. Any other questions, members of the public? >> No. Let's vote. Let's vote. >> I'm sorry. >> Let's vote. >> I believe that's Stephanie.
Yes, that is >> I'm sorry. Who is that? >> Stephanie has tuned in. >> What is Stephanie? >> I'm on the phone. I'm I'm not on the computer. I'm on the phone. >> I can't understand. >> It's Stephanie. She's tuned in online with her phone.
>> Oh, Stephanie. I apologize, Steph. I didn't recognize the voice. Okay. Were you Stephanie, were you here when I took the roll call? >> No. >> Okay. >> I was trying to get on the computer. >> All right. Okay. Okay. Well, then I'd like to acknowledge officially that
Stephanie Hamilton, member, is is present. Okay, Stephanie. Stephanie, did you have something you wanted to add on this vote or we can take the vote? >> No, I just like I just like to vote. >> Okay, great. Okay, kids. Here we go.
All right, we're voting on the uh motion for continuation to March 17th. Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. Stephanie, >> yes. >> Robert Stevens, >> yes. >> Janet Tennyson, >> yes.
>> Oh, that was not Yes. Robert Wilson. Sandy. >> I don't know what's so funny, but >> thank you. And the chair votes. Thank you. I recognize, trust me, guys, I know how frustrating this is, but
what can I tell you? All right. Uh just quickly, I was trying to break a record, have a half hour meeting. Um just we don't really have any new business, but I just want to give in your packet, you received a copy of my annual report to
the select board and to the town uh for your own information. And I just wanted to report that we have 13 preservation award applications. So, uh, >> yeah. So, it's going to be, uh, we're
definitely going to have a, uh, a Sarah Bernie, uh, and, uh, I'm going to be meeting very quickly with Janet Tennyson, who between myself and her are our representative to the preservation awards committee, and the committee is
meeting on Friday at the Atwood uh, with the other members um, and we will hopefully come back and let you know what our decisions are. So, u looking forward to that. Um, that's pretty much it. Uh, unfortunately
or fortunately, uh, Christina notified me that at present we do not have any, uh, applications for for February 17th or March 3rd. >> So, >> wow. So if you could kind of stay tuned
unless something happens in terms of this or there's something to report we probably you know would maybe forego the meeting. All right. I know this is really disappointing. >> Frank, may I ask a question? >> Yes ma'am.
>> U you said in our packets I didn't Where are our packets? >> There were no packets here. >> They're here. I >> They're here. staff that what it was through email and then I handed out a hard copy at the meeting about the
annual report. If you didn't get that email, I'll I'll resend it. >> Okay. Thank you. I didn't get the email that Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. U All right. Uh I think that's it unless anybody has
anything else they want to discuss. Oh, one last quick thing. By the way, we do have um two applicants who are applying to the commission uh which are in process. A Mora Cook who was interviewed by the select board and
might be appointed very shortly to fill the first alternate position and a second gentleman by the name of Peter Donovan who's a has got the best qualification. I think he's 44. Uh so he he meets the age
requirement. uh and uh but also he's got some construction experience. So, we're going to be hearing more about that. So, pre preferably, you know, within the next few months, we will fill out the the uh commission members. Okay.
>> And does that mean that Sandy will be off? >> Sandy reluctantly is potentially thinking about leaving us after how many years, Sandy? >> Many, many, many years. For those you don't know, Sandy used to have
Christina's position and uh so she's been around the block as far as the uh historical commission is concerned and we're going to miss her, but uh still got a couple of months. Okay, kids, here we go. Roll call for adjourning. >> I move we adjourn the meeting.
>> Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, >> yes. >> Stephanie, >> yes. >> Robert Stevens, >> yes. Janet Tennyson, >> yes. >> Robert Wilson, >> yes. >> Sandy Porter, and the chair vote. Thank
you very much. I really appreciate you guys coming out for this abbreviated meeting. We set a record. >> Thank you everybody. >> Yep.