##VIDEO ID:RwxjVIdjngI## e e e e e [Music] [Music] [Music] good morning hi I'm Frank Ms and this is the January 21st 2025 meeting of the chadam historical Commission before we start we have a few announcements that I have to go through please note this meeting is me recorded and will be available shortly Hereafter for scheduled and On Demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device if anyone else is recording the meeting please notify the chairman seeing none pursuant to Governor Hy's March 29 2023 signing of Acts of 2023 extending certain Visions certain covid-19 measures and adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law General law 30 a20 until March 31st 2025 this meeting of the chatam historical commission is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access to proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder for persons that would like to listen listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 945 4410 conference ID 93779 573 hashtag or by joining the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link post in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and Sim and simoc cast on chatam TV despite our best we may not be able to provide for Real Time access we will post the record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible okay uh first item of is the roll call looks like we have a full compliment of members here Bob leer yes here Nancy bar here Stephanie hamon here Sandy Porter here Janet Tennyson here Robert Stevens here and the chair is here okay uh just a quick comment as I called the roll call uh we have uh open one alternate position open to the historical commission for those five people out watching if you're interested in uh in joining the commission please let us know uh Roberts Wilson who has applied for the commission was was interviewed and uh by the select board and hopefully at the next select board meeting uh sometime at the end of the month Bob will be joining us uh but still one at least one open position okay uh we have minutes of January 7th 2025 could I make a motion that we accept the minutes of of January 7th 2025 second please second thank you very much okay if no other comments or questions take a quick roll call on the minutes Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet you OB saying I was absent Robert yes and the chair votes yes thank you very much that was quick okay we have have for public information we have one hearing and a number of new business items that we're going to review including U the commission rules and regulations relative to the issue of the administrative approval process and the continued risk for applicants for continuance uh no necessary correspondence but I do have a few things to report relative to where we are on some of our other old business item so it should be a relatively uh straightforward meeting having said that the first application is 25003 to be heard in accordance with chapter 158 this a partial demolition of an historic structure at 16 Windmill Lane this building is uh built in 1933 it was part of a cottage Community down in on Windmill Lane and uh there is a Form B on the property although it is not included in a national register or a national register District so you do have a Form B which hopefully everybody got a chance to look at there's a a lot of information and photographs of the uh of the property as it was uh reviewed by our preservation consultant so um hi hi good morning quickly introduce yourself sure I'm Alison oesi I'm with A3 Architects here with Bill Riley good morning Milam and we're here on behalf of um Carrie and Jeff Chandler who purchased this house um I believe about a year ago and when they purchased the house the inspection indicated um that the existing Foundation isn't viable so when they purchased the house they knew that they had to replace the foundation a little bit easier said than done um as you know and and thank you you all for coming or many of you for coming out to visit the site um we're in a flood zone and so replacing the foundation is a little more complicated than on a typical project um also this project is three distinct levels and and components so I think we'll just start with the main historic house which is the cape that you see closest to the water so to be compliant with the FEMA regulations we'll be lifting the existing Cape um approximately 5T in yellow we're showing the parts that are affected by that and we're touching a few Windows as well um so basically the house is coming up 5T in addition to that if we go to the next slide we can see that um on the water side elevation there are non original bay windows facing the water we're planning to replace those with um more glazing to take advantage of the views and then we have two small a you know a sorry Gable Dormers that we are planning on replacing with A continuous shed Dormer again to take advantage of the views um and we're proposing a small addition to this area um to this area actually if you go back a slide it's more on the the um other elevation where this um entry is where you come up the railing and go in we're proposing a small um one-story shed roof Edition to um make the mudroom and kitchen more functional um let's see the next portion of the structure is what we have been calling the bunk wi it has two bedrooms and an exterior screen porch um right now when you step down from the main house to the bunk room it's about a two feet twoot elevation change so when I said that the house is going up 5T what that means is the bunk room is going up 7 feet right so we everything all the space needs to be out of that flood zone um I just want make that sh clear because there's a lot of levels here and then finally the windmill which you see is almost touching the street um on the site plan you'll see it's right on the property line and this is also being elevated to get out of the flood plane um so maybe we should go to the slides that show um the proposed thank you so in plan we see that but here we see the um windmill lifted and I think we one thing that we did talk about on site that I wanted to clarify is we are showing um exterior siding coming all the way down because it's such a large amount of exposed concrete we thought it made sense to bring the siding down so that's something that we can talk about but um behind the siding that we're showing on these elevations is a FEMA compliant concrete um foundation with flood vents in it I guess we can look at the next slide so you see we are showing it as vertical siding and then we brought the shingle line down at the Windmill portion and you can see the addition with the um shed roof wrapping the corner of the house there we are showing solar panels look at the next [Music] slide and this is the bunk Wing getting lifted we see that at the bottom there um and the back I described the sliders that we're proposing to look out at the water and a continuous deck along the back and then the the shed Dormer at the second floor elevation this is a section I don't know I can take questions or if I can explain anything better I'm happy to do that okay one second first of all I guess we we don't have any argument relative to the historical significance of the property so what I that was a question so I guess having said that we I'd like to introduce this just quickly this what we do relatively determine historical significance if we determine the property is not historically significant say thank you for coming okay but if we if we don't you know we we proceed so just to put that aside and if there's no argument yes Mr Riley well I don't think there's any historical significance because of the changes that were made um to the 1933 building by the addition of the bunk wi and the windmill uh neither of which were constructed at that time are you maintaining the property is not historically significant yes okay well I guess I respectively strongly disagree especially when you look at the Form B and and determination of it as a cottage Community was it 1776 no but it was 1930s it was part of a significant Cottage community and I think just as the the preservation consulted in his uh Form B which you which you included in the application goes into some detail about the history of the house and the and how the a neighborhood as a cottage Community was developed so my opinion is that the property the building it is historically SU significant well just uh and if the cottage Colony continued to exist there would be a much easier argument to make the cottage Colony no longer exists well I disagree with that strongly virtually every single building in there has been lifted enlarged and modified and the idea that somehow this is the horn Cottages area is uh well I disagree the house directly across the street which was also historically significant a major renovation was done number of years ago in which we worked with the applicant and we were able to maintain the historical significance of the property and do additions or changes to the property which still maintain the cottage Community there's no question it's going to change and I'm not arguing with the question of whether or not this property can change but I think we still from my perspective at least from historical commission's point of view it is historically significant we would try to maintain as much as the historical significance of the particular windmill windmill Lane that we can to maintain the hisorical significance of the of the area I just wonder if if all the members feel the same way well we will we'll get to that but thank you very much I appreciate your opinion there's no question bill you know historical significant is based a lot on opinion you know this is not the zoning board we're not talking about legal you know 30 foot versus 32 foot it's a question of whether or not we feel this property from an historical preservation point of view you know do we want to tear it down and build a large you know five-story building no so we're going to work and I think you have a very good application or you do looking at the the uh the architect has done a relatively good job in trying to preserve some of the historical character of the building so why don't we just dispense with that very simply as I said you'll be very if we don't feel it's historically significant then we say thank you very much having said that I'm sorry uh no go ahead let make the motion yeah uh Janet I thought you were raising hand I did that was me I'm sorry I'm sorry yeah well rather to the issue of historical significance yes yeah let's focus on that first oops I'm sorry sorry I think it has historical significance in that original on this form the I think one of the original structures must have been built in 1920 because when you Google it it says that plus on this form it says uh so maybe the original Cottage uh but on the other as as Frank said uh We've evaluated other homes in that area and and they have been deemed uh historical so I think this fits right in with that category myself thank you very much anybody else uh just a question yes sure um do you know when uh it looks like the bay windows were added 1991 the porch was added 1997 bill you mentioned that you felt that the windmill and the back addition were later do you know when they were added no you know there no records so thank you relative historical significance Nancy do you feel the building is worthy of um I have to think about it say again I'm just going to think about it for for a second how many seconds you want I believe that there are definitely historically significant thank you Sandy I concur thank you Robert yes I I'm sorry you're Bob Robert robt not yet uh have a question yeah surely okay uh Allison or Bill uh what I was there on the on the visit and it just seemed like everything was at the street level and now we're bringing everything up between five and seven feet I'd certainly do that for view Rob can I just ask you to F just on the issue of historical significance of the property so we could proceed R yes it's historical in my opinion okay we'll come back I AP I apologize Bob I agree it's historically significant okay so we seem to have a consensus and a particular Point entertain a motion to reaffirm the historical significance Mr Vice chair uh I move the chatam historical commission finds that the building located at 16 Windmill Lane is historically significant because it is in whole or in part 75 years old or more and is associated with one or more historical persons of the town and possesses architectural value or significance in terms of period style method of construction or Association with an historically prominent architect in and in conun and it is historically significant in conjunction with a group of buildings or structures second thank you very much any other comment questions members of the public okay we'll take a quick roll call Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair votes yes okay sorry just a little bit of housekeeping bill you know I I understand your comments Rel to that but you know this commission is trying very hard because sure here a lot you know and and the whole issue of 1930s 1940s and and we you know we we do recognize the issue you know that we're reaching reaching that point of what's historically significant and everything in my opinion you know can't be 16700 to be historically significant and still maintain the historical Integrity of the community so we're going to we're going to we're going to dance around that one quite a lot so no no I I understand that it's just because of the additions they were put on the on the front of the building that was my only Point yeah so I'm good with okay no I I do and trust me we we're wrestling with that you know a lot of chatam is going to be 75 years old you know and where where do we go anyway it's an interesting question okay let's get down to the issue of your application and we were you were first go with yes I just wondered you're putting skylights on turn on your you're putting skylights on we're not putting skylights solar solar panels or solar panels okay because the application said nothing about it and it just suddenly showed something in the picture there are solar panels okay I'm sorry I couldn't get that completely there are solar panels on top of the roof on the so the proposed on the proposed Dormer it's a very low pit so I don't believe they'll be visible it's a very flat roof here yeah that's a good usually a good place for solar in terms of visibility well interesting enough I me just one of the first applications I was involved in on the commission good Miss graci it's could to be 20 years ago was a house where it was solar panels and I think the commission dealt very quickly and this was an old village house that you know it's like saying you can't put an electrical connection to the street you know telephone PS and I don't believe this commission thus far has never really taken a position on solar panels in the point of view from that they're temporary you know it's like color right it's not it's not a permanent modification of the of the of the property so anyway but good good catch thank you Steph well I should add to we spend a lot of time at Old Kings Highway and they do care about solar and they typically require us to use the panels that are all black with not without you don't see the white lines so so it's a little bit cleaner I don't know if you've noticed the difference but I can certainly send you a spec sheet so it's a black frame and a black panel and it it it tends to because it will fill the roof line completely it tends to kind of go away I mean they're not invisible but we try to make them as incon inconspicuous as possible yeah well it's an interesting topic one of these days we're going to deal with it when somebody tries to build another structure on the property that's another story we won't go there we have enough we have enough to deal with uh yes Robert you had some questions about the property yes this has more to do with a knowledge void on my part for FEMA yes I'm I'm still having trouble picturing it from the streetscape side sure um that it the building is going to go up five to seven feet and instead of a windmill you're going to have a windmill sitting on top of a concrete foundation that is almost totally exposed right except for can we go back um a slide I'm sorry keep you busy one more one more back please yeah so this is what it would look like from the street and it's a good question because female requires us if we touch 50% of the value of the structure which we have to do here and I I I sort of explained the foundation isn't viable as it is right now so this has to happen um but yes it creates an access problem for sure so we're proposing um oop sorry that the foundation will end somewhere here so here's the lifted Windmill and then we I I think I tried to mention in my presentation that we're bringing the shingle line down because we thought that was a lot of concrete to see at the street level but it is not required that was a a decision we made that we thought it might look better to not see 6 feet of exposed concrete it would look better to see some of the materials coming down at the side sorry Robert yeah May Robert may I ask a question in between that yeah we discussed briefly at the side visit which technically we didn't discuss we just mentioned uh but um Alternatives and I guess my point Robert from that point of the same issue is that the streetscape of the colony Village if you will and and that's my that's my issue I mean I have an issue but I have to you know get over it so to speak in that according to Fe you know you've got to lift it so we've got a different look on on the property and on the and on the and in the socalled area or the so-called streetscape but by enlarging the building okay it just visually it makes the building big okay and I'm just wondering and I understand your comments and I'm sure the applicants the owners comments about oh we don't want that big concrete and I guess I point pointed out across the street where right they had a similar situation where they raised it and they didn't put just concrete they put stone or some kind of other thing and the issue is from you as you're the architect is that you know you've got a windmill that's elongated and it's it's inconsistent with the with the the the scale of the whole building and and if there's something you felt that you could do to reduce that scale visually uh to the to the foundation and not put six five or six feet of of uh of know yeah I mean I think we could split the difference yeah or you know where we bring the shingles down a foot or so and then we could have a stone base or you know I think we're open to doing that I it is a very Stout windmill right and it it's now it's getting elongated so we could stop the shingle line maybe a foot down and and then the rest it also makes the door kind of award I mean that's that's a funny looking door you know you got Giants going into this windmill right 9t Giants yes well the door is actually meant to replicate so the door if we just lifted it the door would be somewhere here right so this is a exact same size door it's not excuse me Janet one thing I intered Rob Robert I'm sorry I inter you know did you will you finish what you wanted to go uh no I think we're talking about the subject right now okay I I was wondering if maybe they could put uh Boston Roundstone or something like that at the base of the windmill which would be more common than would be what they used in the early days in in this area did you get that no say that one more time sorry yes the lower part of the windmill yes your neighbors are going to have to look at that and what I'm suggesting is maybe you would consider a Boston Roundstone that would uh be consistent with that era you know rather than just like modern brick kind of foundation just a suggestion you you've obvious Allison you put a lot of work into this and I know your hands are tied here so we're just trying to be helpful we're not the enemy we can definitely look at that I feel like we're that there's not that stone anywhere else on the um on the property I mean we can we can definitely look at that this foundation will have to have some flood vents in it it's it's a functioning foundation and I think I mentioned this on site there has been water in in this basement since they've bought it there's been water so it's not an area that doesn't get tested by Water Rising um but we can definitely look at adding Stone there yes okay I'm sorry Janet yes no I was going to make this a similar suggestion that that Robert did about because I I I get the reason bringing the shingles down I really do but it kind of diminishes the charm of the windmill so um so if you brought up maybe even bricks around the faux bricks or something along the bottom so that there was a distinguishing factor between where it comes down and then the windmill and then the door I don't know it just just a suggest that's a good suggestion because at the cottage Charming the cottage we use this um water table to kind of break the the shingle line with the horizont like a change of material so you kind of know demarcate literally where where things are you know historic so we could certainly introduce something like that here I just want to make sure that it looks like it fits in with the rest of the structure okay anyone else have any comments that they like to add or Nancy anything I I think the demarcating where the historic is and where the new is is a really important thing when you're making Renovations um I think my biggest um I feel like the front windows were added later and so you know the bay windows being changed I don't know if those dogghouse dor Dormers were original but they feel they look more original and so my biggest challenge is probably with the full Dormer but I I completely understand um you know the the value to the homeowner of doing that um and I think it's kind of unclear what parts of that home were there originally and what were not so that's my only comments I think we did really try to touch the house very lightly like we are not trying to blow it up right these are very small moves in the grand scheme of things so I think that Dormer facing the water you know is meant to look like this Dormer which I do think was original the the shed on the back so I'm not sure about the Gable Dormers facing the water could you go to that I think it's a22 yeah the IDE the idea was we wanted to keep the building as the public sees it from the Street looking as much as it is as we could but we felt that given the cost of elevating the structure that the uh the ability to take advantage of the views on the water side is was always a fair tradeoff yeah I think all right nothing's a show shop before answering in right no I you could if you go back you can see what it looks like now but you know so it's it's it's changed but it's also not on the street side and understandable yeah go back to the uh um what's what's the comparative on what it is now on the south Southeast elevation okay yeah yeah all right okay okay let's walk around Sandy anything else you would like to discuss or no I uh did not make the site visit I was away and I looked this over briefly last evening when we got home we've been away um there isn't anything that screams out at me I'm not crazy about dogghouse Dormers so it's okay what was that you're not crazy about what dog Dormers oh Steph Janet Robert Bob I have a couple questions sorry couple questions um one there's some references here to standing seam metal roof what's that about so can we go back to the proposed elevations sorry I'm keeping you on your toes today so again I think this was a conscious decision where if we're if if it was new we changed the roof changed a change of materials so this is a wrapping L shed Edition at the proposed kitchen and mud room so we're showing a standing seam metal roof here just in this small piece and on the back same thing I'm sorry on the the the uh on the side on the side yeah if we could go driveway side right the driveway side elevation thank you so we see that roof wrapping sorry so that I'm like it shows up in two places one is the mushroom proposed mudroom Edition has a metal roof right and the proposed Dormer has a midle ro oh sorry yep so up here I couldn't read that I'm sorry need like reading glasses and distance um this shed Dormer is very flat and so we're proposing the standing seam metal roof because it's less than a three pitch where we can do the architectural asphalt uh we you've got two different roof lines that you're talking about there one is steep and one is kind of flat is that yeah I guess the thinking was because these were the two new roofs that we do a new material we definitely can do an architectural asphalt on this one that's more visible the kitchen the lower one it's steep enough to have architectural asphalt but on the upper Dormer it's a very low pitch so the options are metal or rubber okay um another question um on a2.0 the northwest street view above the garage door there are some lines there with little squares on top is that a railing or what what is that this oh we are showing a small light pergola style roof so that those sticks represent the pergola this is a pergola yes okay I guess what happened for us visually is we have a lot more wall on that elevation than was there before and so we're trying to break that up okay nice job all right I think that answers my questions my comment is um the southeast from the southeast elevation the house is the new house will be unrecognizable from what it is now um Northeast there's semblance of continuity um the driveway side is also substantially changed and we've discussed the street side and how much more large and bulky uh it's going to be so those give me concerns again I don't know what can be done about those issues and and if if if this hadn't got triggered by FEMA it would be a little bit simpler but then again the house might float away so that's we're all on preserving houses from floating away way so I I do have concerns but that uh addresses it and I think that it's may require some uh public relations to convince the neighbors that all of these things are required to put in this very large new looking house next to them but well I I should add to you we are going to the Conservation Commission and the zoning board so there is time for neigh I having been a conservation commissioner they they couldn't care less about uh I actually I actually agree I'm always think that oh they want to look at the elevations but they don't care they only like the site plan right uh zoning may have some issues though so that's what I was referring to okay that's all I have thanks well thank you very much uh I think you my questions I like to put it in questions and comment my question I think is answered if you will in the fact that you will reconsider that Foundation area underneath the windmill I think that's that's going to be key cuz as as Bob said the neighbors are may not be happy or may be happy uh of what what's going on I don't know what zoning is going to do they it's a new zoning board and they have their own opinions on how it uh how it how it works out your zoning issue at your bill what what is these issue on zoning that you have to go to zoning we're making changes to a pre-existing non-conforming structure yeah and and you know but I'm sure I'm sure you're going to be okay uh but I I do appreciate the fact that from my point of view uh the the comment rather not a question was that just doing that to the windmill what you're proposing I think is going to go a long way to reducing the visual issue the visual impact I mean we've got a lot of house is that we've done a lot at least 10 or 15 we've done the last couple years in other parts of that part of the the chatam where they've had to be lifted and they just lost I mean it looks like South looks like South Carolina on the beach you know and then and and you know Jersey sure you know and and we're trying to maintain a little bit of the the scale and and and the look and but I think you've done a a really good job here quite honestly it's an Eclectic house you know in terms of the the the various additions and you know very simply you you could have come back here tear it down and build you know some Square thing maybe a gr Bell or some other nonsense these days but you didn't and the owners obviously are going to you're going to spend a little money doing this work and and I and from my point of view appreciate the fact that you are taking some time to maintain the basic uh core of the of the structure so from that point of view I I think the uh the one thing that Allison mentioned regarding the stone work at the bottom is we do have to put um flood vents in at the base of the windmill so she'll have to deal with the kind of material you have so you can have events also yeah assuming that I think we have consensus it's going to be approved to what it is but can I ask you that in the near future if you could take a look at that and send to us what you think you can do I mean I don't feel we should condition you know we're going to turn give you an 18mon delay because of that but it would be nice to know that what you're what you're thinking um we can in updated um elevations within a few weeks that would be okay okay great that would be fine having said that I think we're ready for a motion Mr Mr Lear just to clarify you want to wait you don't want to wait until we see the the um revisions that Alison just to I think I think I feel there's enough confidence hopefully the other members of the condition we don't have to condition the application we could proceed and allow them to uh come back to us with something that we could then incorporate into the into the decision okay okay thank you okay I will do that motion chadam historical commission also finds the proposed work to be done dated January 21st 2025 this date will not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the commission does not impose demolition delay I'll second okay uh any of the comments questions uh public coming she reminds I see we have a few members of the public out there would they like to have comment for against the application seeing none I think we can proceed well yes uh can you hear me I'm sorry could you could you do introdu yourself sir yes I'm William doggit uh the next door neighbor at 14 Windmill Lane yes we have you now and uh okay thank you and uh I think that the uh proposed changes are are very Tastefully done and uh have made an effort to maintain the Aesthetics of of the cottage well thank you very much we appreciate that I think we have a consensus among the board that similar comment any other member of the public wish to speak for or against the application seeing none we could proceed with a roll call Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes Robert yes and the chair vote Yes thank you very much appreciate your help and your efforts thank you thank you when do you go to zoning in the process fil now thank you very much we'll get some comments out thank you all right uh you know we've been um holding on to these books that we decided that would be good to have we're going to use them it's like a quiz we're under new business first one is review rules and regulations in the book feel like I'm a teacher turn to turn to rules and regulations we have a couple of new members of the commission and we're going to get another new member soon these rules and regulations we put together when do we dist start it I don't know we adopted them and amended them in 200 2014 yeah it was 2014 when we when we generated the rules and regulations and basically it was a way for us to formalize how you know what what how we operate and quite honestly when someone questions you can't do that we said well according to our rules and regulations legally I don't know what what holds any legal Authority it's certainly not a bylaw but it still gives us some some consistency that when we do things we're doing it consistent with our uh our our for you know former ways that we have uh how we act and what our Authority was so anyway the one key thing I wanted to talk about was the administrative approval process now I got to find out where it is help me where is it within this document I find it say again it's on page six Frank I think under determination of applicability okay uh for our members here we decided that it was necessary uh on page six I can't find it top top uh paragraph B the B at the top of the page say again the B at the top of the page ah okay why can't I find don't okay is that all we wrote on administrative review I thought we had more what I was looking for was the administrative approval process bottom line here if I can find it didn't we have more another paragraph on administrative approval for a I'm not sure I I believe since I wrote it that that's it that's what we wrote it lays it out okay what what I'm getting at here sorry for the delay uh and the pause okay I'm going to read it bottom line what I'm trying to get at is that what we determined was that there are certain applications which come before not necessarily commission but come for Community Development is that the applicant is really does not require full healing and we would do an administrative review process and and the bottom line is uh and I guess it is down on the fourth line here uh alterations which are minor or consist of Maintenance or repair in other words that if in fact we considered it minor that and then we would ask uh uh other words it's not come before the full commission all right okay here if I'm going to read it again sorry about this if after this due diligence both re both reviewers agreed that the project does not require an application for a full hearing before the commission okay and when we're following that and I think it's working out and I think Christina who really get the blunt in Community Development and Annie that this is good it reduces our workload and that's fine the question really is from my point of view is that what we don't do in this process yeah we talk about uh minor repair or minor changes even in a in an historic structure that wouldn't necessarily require a full hearing and I think it's working and I don't think anybody's taking advantage of it but the other question is if we have a property which is obviously not historically significant there could be a major change to a property but we see them often they come to to us and they say okay we you know just you know it takes us 2 minutes this is really not historically significant but the applicant has applied they paid the 150 bucks or whatever the heck it is they had to hire an architect they have a lawyer and we put the public into you know certain kind of uh inconvenience if you will and so what what could we do and I've spoken to uh Sarah Corf cape card Commission on hey what do other towns do the with the same situation and and I'm and this is coming up quite honestly with the fact that we're going to get a lot more homes in the next 25 years may not be around you know which are going to be 75 years old and they're obviously either not historically significant and we're going to have every house in in riverbay come before us what are we going to do about it and our dear departed friend Steve Burling game you know anged over this uh and we decid decided well we're not sure what to do so we put it aside that's a good way to do it you do it with your kids I'm not sure we'll talk about it later you know so I guess we need to to start to think about that so I talked to Sarah Corf what what do other commissions do on the cape or elsewhere on in the state of Massachusetts and the way a lot of towns handled this situation I apologize for my slow start I should have made some more notes was that they they hire a consultant good luck on that in chadam right now I don't think that we're going to put a preservation consultant on staff unless my good friend Dean nastra who happens to be sitting in the audience is going to sponsor an additional staff person to the town of chattam it's not going to happen Okay given everything else in this town so they're not going to hire a full-time preservation consultant we do have a preservation consultant that we work with ar Dre but he's on he's not on retainer he's under contract we could ask the town of chadam to put him on retainer which meant every time we have and some towns do this in fact Eric does it I'm not trying to get Eric Dr contracts but what they do if when an application comes before the commission you know to the staff they immediately goes to Eric and he looks at it and he said this is not historically significant now he's a professional consultant he did most of our forbs he's got enough Knowledge from an historic preservation point of view to say this house is worthy of production or it's an opinion okay but at least it's a professional opinion he knows the difference between a a italiante and a capart and a three quarter you know most of us you know we look at it you know I keep saying I'm an electrical engineer guys give me a break okay having said that so so that's one way we could do the other way that other towns do it is their form bees now chadam has been very lucky back in you know in the early part of the commission we've done a great job with our for p and I think I'm going to ask Christina to correct me I think we have evaluated every home in chadam was Eric say why don't you why don't you give a little overview of what Forbes we've done I should have brought the book but we have a book um that has the form bees that have been done we have a um that were considered medium um and low and no um for Eric so that was done in 2014 I believe completed in 2015 um so moving forward I believe he said 1965 and Below he he um delved into all the houses um that he didn't do form BS for everything but he that from his high low medium done list um from 1965 but the point I'm trying to make is we have hired professional Consultants Eric Dre and then beforehand I can't think of the other consultant we are so we basically done an evaluation of all homes you know before 1965 so we've got a really good database and so when an application comes before Christina first thing she looks at is there a Form B you know and then she and in the survey the summary that she provides to us I'll find it and she tells us whether or not that application was listed as a high medium or low so we've already got some indication I can't find it an indication of whether or not we feel this house is worthy of review and I guess all I'm trying to say go thank you very much what what do without you other words she she's indicated that status on the town survey it's on the done list so or she will say it was a low it you know it was in other words if it was high Eric did a Form B if it was medium we've done a form P so we have done all the H correct me I think he did say he did all the mediums but I'm not quite sure if he completed so we definitely done all the high what does that mean all the homes which are obviously historically significant 17 1800 those are done the medians when you get to the late 1800 to early 1900 he's completed most if not all of them the lows we didn't do that yet we're in the process and it's on another part of our agenda to potentially find another contract with Eric uh to look at to clean up some of them and to do more and and I guess what I'm trying to say is we do have a very good database the question is and I'm really want you to think about I'm looking for an answer now the question is do we want to change the administrative review process to indicate in addition to the criteria alterations are minor or uh or consist of Maintenance and Repair do we want to add another category which says if the house was reviewed the property reviewed by the preservation consultant and he issued a low that it does not become before the commission that it's an administrative Rew process it's not say it's a complete free ride it says that the two members of the commission are going to look at the house and verify yes this is truly not historically significant and I and I use that example Janet many times when you've asked you to do the you've said Frank this house is obviously not historically significant why am I doing this well the Frank I've never said I've never question and and the answer is by by law chapter 158 the only group that can determine whether a house is historically significant or not in chadam is the commission the full commission so in my spare time I had a discussion with Sarah CF excuse me with Katie Donovan and she is preparing a request to town counsel you know when when the When anybody in the town wants legal advice you have to fill a form out so Katie is doing that and the form is boy this is a long way to get to the point I apologize what she's going to do is she's going to ask Town Council to opine I love that word opine he going to give an opinion on whether or not it's true that only the historical commission could determine historical significance apparently in other towns it's not just the commission that are paid consulted can do that so we you know we have to decide do we want to hate just put it this way do we want to give up some of that Authority in other words that only the commission could just like we did before at this previous only the commission could decide if it's historically significant or provide some legal guidelines say again guidelines right a little room that not just the commission can decide as historically signifant but the consultant good that yes ma'am why would we give that up say again why would we give that up it's not a big deal to go out and review these well why would we give that up I think we need to think about I'm not trying to give it up per se I'm trying to uh to have those were your words say again those were your words well thank you uh I would like to to find an easier way administratively for the town of chattam to deal deal with those multitude of homes that are coming before us which are in that Gray Line yes Nancy um I think are you I think you're saying that you're want to ask if the preservation consultant's designation of say low could trigger an admin review rather than a full revie way so we'd still have a role confirm or deny that low thing if okay I misunderstood okay I think she was thinking we were gonna not have an ad no no no no no no no I'm trying to I'm trying to take those homes which are in that low category and move them officially to the administrative review process thank you what would I thank you Frank all right and anyway to just think about that okay uh hopefully in another four or five six weeks we're going to get an opinion from the Town Council and then we'll have be able to put it together to to really think about it but I wanted to to creep up on that on that issue wow that was like school all over again anyway okay that's the first thing thank you for your patience I appreciate that uh oh we lost Mr Riley uh the second item on that was continued requests for an applicant for continuance that was another issue which we want to think about our rules and regulations and I'm going to ask our vice chair and consi Mr leer to think about that do we want to put something in our rules and regulations which say you know after the after six months you know you're not going to get a continuance and why why would we say that because as Christina pointed out we're doing a disservice to the public if an applicant comes before us on a major renovation like 7 five hallway and I'm just using that as an example in a a a contributing structure in the old village with a major change we had problems we he asked for continuance to go back I think we're up to the third or fourth continuance now we're into February okay there's good reason he's working on it but guess what the members of the public who live there and are interested they don't know what's going on and they don't have an opportunity to know that the historical commission is one more time reviewing that unless they've been watching to every one of these meetings when we agree upon a continuance so uh Bob would you want to take a crack at that um yes uh interest of full disclosure my wife is the president of the Old Village Association and they are one of the group of the public that want to know what's going on okay and I get asked about it quite often and I don't have an answer so in order to save Bob's marriage we're no it's just something to think of to take a look at you know like hey you know have a could it be a good reason for it or saying you know after two times that's it you know what does it mean it's not we're not going to turn you down we're going to say you have to reapply right that that's you and I talked about that on Friday Frank that at least that puts out a new advertisement that people can see now who reads those advertisements another question I think a lot of people do I think that'd be a good idea yeah put it out again all right guys very good two for two that would be asking the applicant to pay another $150 well maybe we'll give them a discount who knows but you know I'm going to let let's let's let's charge another 550 let's let Bob put something together and we'll discuss it I'm not making a decision okay wow all right tough group uh we have no administrative approvals now we've done all of that okay uh uh the pimrose of 1553 I'm still working on providing that narrative I'll send it to you soon as I get it done uh the next item was uh Eric Dre and the form B's update uh we have had we Christina and myself and of course kadye at the same time had discussions on uh getting uh Eric back on under contract in accordance with the priorities we set can we just's get together Friday just quickly all right we're going to be meeting with Eric again just to understand what is done what's left to be done and how do we want to prioritize it we don't have unlimited funding so we've got to be narrow in what we approve so that's still going on I just wanted you to be aware of that yes ma'am sorry I have a question relating to four beads that maybe you can answer quickly um was looking up a couple um in South chadam that were clearly the um architectural style was clearly wrong on a couple of them these Eric did not do these this was another team of people that seemed to have been doing them at some point after the commission but before Eric um and I think it maybe it just maybe they did a lot and it was just you know not that they thought that a half Cape was a Greek Revival but that it got put down wrong are those easy to correct is that something do you know the process for correcting a Form B is my question so I believe that's part of Eric's um scope of work is updating some form B's um what the commission had discussed is um doing new form bees first and then the next step updating form be's so of course if you have any input or any changes he may we could we could ask him if he could if if he did them I'm sure he would change them but because he didn't do it it might be in phase two they were relevant relatively recently done so I don't think they'd be the first ones that you would go back and redo but they do have mistakes on them so it goes to Eric if if I I could send you an email so maybe if it's um his an Overlook on his part he can fix them and get them you know corrected okay that's that's a very good point but having said that it's not necessary to hire a professional consultant to change it for instance we used to do them ourselves so we you as an individual could there ically contact Mass historic and correct it well that I guess that's what I was asking what's what's the easiest way to correct something I think if we have a preservation consultant who's working on them we might as well give it all to him if it's quick thing need to be yeah I'm not sure of the process but I can look into it for you okay you know the Form B is almost like Wikipedia any member of the public can comment and that becomes that's why the internet's so dangerous because you know this is what it is but let's let's talk about we'll talk about that with Eric and see if we can formalize the process a little bit easier okay great um third item on the old business determination of Eligibility of the Nickerson Homestead unfortunately we're still don't have a uh an agreement between the Nickerson Family Association and the conservation Foundation chadam conservation Foundation I'm hoping that this will get resolved sometime in February and we could move forward I don't want to say let's go ahead and just do it anyway I would like everybody to agree on the name of this thing of this dig so that's where we are we're up in the air but I'm hoping that we get a yes ma'am is excuse button is the name could you speak up a bit I'm having a little doubt is is the name uh the hold up yes what the name yes that's it that's what's holding it up yes they all have to agree found okay yes next thank you what is do you have a proposed name that you're talking about or is that not what is the name that you're is currently under proposal or is that being discussed the Dig was when we started the Dig when not we when the Nickerson family dig it was the William and an Nickerson archaeological site the conservation Foundation wants more mention of the pre-existing pre you don't have a proposal for what that would say they do have some proposals and it's a matter of getting the two to agree what what the pro what's the proper way the name this is just this is just a draft of a determination of Eligibility we're a long way from actually getting it approved and the name can change you know but we we we'll wait you know we're trying to get it done to make everybody at least an agreement uh I think that's it the only other thing just quickly to comment on is the demolition by neglect I keep looking over at Stephanie you know uh Christine has promised me as soon as her desk gets cleared a bit she will get back on it and we'll we'll continue to uh work on that I actually had a brief conversation this morning with Ellen Briggs of protect to pass and she has some information from another commission or another historical agency that's done some work on it and she's going to forward me that information on on another basically what the issue is we're trying to grab a grease pick here what's the approach how do we do this in the most effective way but still uh get something on the books uh ch's report I guess there's nothing changed on the demolition delays nope I will just comment under under my report court if you will I'm sorry I'm talking a lot two things uh the protection of archaeological resources in sensitive areas I did send you I believe a copy of an email that I had sent to the Conservation Commission this is not the chadam Conservation Commission but the town's Conservation Commission over concern of uh protection of resources and archaeological senses areas you're familiar with the zero crosswind Farm situation yes it was approved by conservation but if I what I did send you where the Conservation Commission actually included in their determination or their findings that the applicant because it's such an being dug in such an arch electrically sensitive area they should they should attempt excuse me my ears are ringing they should attempt to to to be careful where they're digging and in fact they encourage the applicant to do an archaeological dig on the property to ensure that there are no resources in the area he's going to be digging up legally we can't require that in other words private property but the what the Conservation Commission is doing they're at least giving a little heads up hey be careful and that's all we can really do to protect archaeological sens of areas if a grave is uncover it different story everybody gets involved including the police department and mass historic so I guess what I'm trying to say is that in conversation with the Conservation Commission their management uh can't think of the name of the department who's the new the new director of environmental resources the one replaced Dr Dunson Greg B Greg yes he sent an an email back to me piece of Correspondence and said this is a good idea Frank let's think about it so you know it's something we'd like to do in the future but you know we'll see what happens about that last but not least the good old Monomoy theater property in the uh Washington tail house uh that application now is back before zba so we'll see what we're going to do having said that that's all I have too much oh thank you very much see that what I sent you this morning and I emailed you also this morning a uh an outline of a meeting that was held this morning on something called the pattern book long story short about 20 years ago uh Len susman used to be a member of the commission and was also a select person or selectman at the time we attempted we the commission attempted to generate a pattern book we were turned down by Community preservation and uh for the funding for such a book and and it fell by the wayside protect our past Ellen Briggs has picked up the mantle here and has proceeded in the process of generating a pattern book I'm going to send you more information in fact I didn't copy it but I emailed you a draft of this book which I happen to be working on in fact we just drag Miss Nancy into it and hopefully work on it what this is is just as Nancy on what year that did when the commission did this okay what year was it Nancy I forget 2005 2005 God we're getting old anyway 2007 when we did this we did it because we wanted to generate something that the public could take a look at and say Hey you know maybe we want to save some of these old houses and so it's a combination of of the history of chadam but also the architectural history and the stories of it okay what this book here this so-called pattern book in some ways is similar but is different in the sense that IT addresses the architectural styles that were used in the development of of homes in chadam and on the cap card so anyway I wanted just to give you a little bit of a heads up uh that this group protect our past is working on it and it's going to take a couple of you know a good five or six months before it happens but hopefully it'll be another tool in our toolbox when somebody comes before us and you know tries to take down a really historic house and say why don't you take a look at this to see what you could do what you know what the what the history of that particular style of house is so anyway just it's kind of a heads up just to let you know what's what's cooking and uh we'll keep you informed Stephanie thank you for reminding me my mind's going in nine different directions okay I've said enough anybody else have anything else to add clerk has something to no here yeah I was May I make a motion that we adjourn this meeting oh this a discuss second there a second on that I I seconded okay Bob yes Nancy yes Stephanie yes Sandy yes Janet yes robt yes chair vote yes thank you very much I should what was [Music] [Music] that for