Finally, beautiful weather. Good morning. Hi. Uh, I'm Frank Msina and I'd like to welcome you to the May 19, 2026 meeting of the Chattam Historical Commission. Before we start, uh, we have
some, uh, brief announcements. Uh please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, please notify the chairman.
Okay. Pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extending certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions
of the open meeting law GL30A20 until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Chattam Historical Commission is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the
proceedings as provided for in the order. reminder that people who would like to listen to this meeting while it's in progress may do so by calling the phone number 5089454410 conference ID 894 109
9999 hashtag or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast simalcast on channel chattam TV exfinity channel 1072. Despite our best efforts, we may not be able to
provide real time access. First order of business is roll call. Uh Bob Leer, vice chair >> here. >> Nancy Bar clerk. >> Nancy is absson. Stephanie Hamilton >> here. >> Robert Stevens >> here. >> Janet Tennyson
>> here. >> Robert Wilson >> here. >> Sandy Porter >> here. >> Peter Donovan >> here. Uh Sandy will be a voting member as uh replacing Nancy Bar today. Uh the alternates uh normally take part in all
the discussion but only one if member is missing can actually uh participate in the in the uh in the voting. Before we start, I'd like to uh make note and uh
the passing of uh one of my dear friends uh and longtime member of the Chattam Historical Commission uh Jane Moffett. >> She passed the last day or two. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Jane is uh was a a dear friend. We
traveled and sailed in the Adriatic, the Caribbean and >> Mediterranean, but good friend. and she was a real advocate for historical preservation in the town of Chadam. >> Uh so just take a second and just >> oh >> think about Jane.
>> Thank you very much. Okay. Uh the next order of business will be our minutes. One page I believe. Very good. All right. Uh these are the minutes from April 21st, 2026. Anybody have any
comments, open suggestions? >> I move that we accept the minutes from May 19th, 2026. >> Second. >> Thank you. Okay. Uh, no other comments. Uh Bob >> yes. >> Steph, >> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Janet,
>> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Sandy, uh, Sandy, I think you were. >> Yes. Good. And Peter, >> yes. >> And the chair votes yes. >> Okay. We have a a short agenda and u one
application uh application is 26008 uh in accordance with chapter 158 demolition delay bylaw. Uh the structure is on 19 scattery road
and you have the documentation for that. Uh this is a somewhat significant change to a uh home in uh which is not on the national register. There is a form B on the
property. Uh this property was originally built in the uh 18 something or other. I can't get the date somewhere. >> What was that? >> 1900. >> 1900s. It's close to 1800 something or
other. >> Uh 1850 was the original structure. So uh I don't think there's going to be any discussion from the applicant relative to his historical significance. Uh but let's proceed. Um
>> uh good morning Bill Riley >> Karen Kemp. >> Karen Kemp the architect. No, we're not disputing the historical significance. >> Okay. Okay. Well, we'll just we'll just eliminate that process. It makes things go quicker. Any members of the
commission have any comments relative to historical significance? And I think we all generally agree. So, uh, Bob, we get a motion. We can move on from that. >> Sure. I move this Chattam Historical Commission find that the structure, the main structure located at 119 Scattery
Road is historically significant because it is in Holderin part 75 years old or more. and it is associated with one or more historical persons or events including the e economic, social, political history of the town which
includes I note from the form B um past uh head of the Yale uh get this right Har I'm sorry Harvard Business School and the past president of Princeton
University and that family still uh owns the house or the broader family, not the president. And it possesses architectural value or significance in terms of period style and construction. And as noted in the
form B, it remains a good example of a Greek revival style house with the gable front and side L uh despite the additions. And then it goes on to say, "The house contributes to the 19th century character of North Cadam. Character defining features of
the Greek revival style found in the house include the gable front orientation, roof cornice details, corner plasters, and door surround, and 60 over six windows. >> I'll second that. >> Thank you very much. Any other comments, discussion? Any member of the public
like to speak on the application on the motion?" Seeing none, uh, roll call. Bob. >> Yes. Steph, >> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Janet, >> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> And the chair votes, yes.
>> Thank you very much. Okay. Uh, again, you know, rather beautiful spot and and a beautiful original home. >> Yeah. >> Somewhat lot of changes to it, but why don't we proceed? >> Yeah.
Um, so you can see on the front elevation on the right hand side, we're taking off the wing. It's a sun room that was built in the 70s. Um, and even though I've said demo, I forgot to highlight on the left hand side that
single little window and the uh little yes, the little addition there. So that's kind of part of the rear elevation, the rear edition that was done at some point. We don't know when. Um so the proposed front elevation
uh saves all the window locations of the main house and the L. Um a new chimney will replace the existing chimney. Um the window that's on the right hand side next to the French doors that will
remain uh and we will be adding a second floor uh above that area. Um, it is set back from the corner board of the L. So, there is definition there. And then there would be a singlestory sun room to
replace u the sun room that's there now. It'll have a balcony uh above it because of the beautiful views on that side of the house. It'll be in the same footprint as the existing house. Um the intent is not to go the ridge any higher
than the existing ridge when we lift it up and put a new foundation on. Um uh Wendy, our uh engineer though has added 8 in to the ridge height on the site plan just in case something comes up like the um the sills are rotten and we
have to lift it up a little bit further just so that we're covered on that. But the intent is to keep it same top of foundation. It's there. Now, uh, if we go to the next one, >> can I win a quick question on the foundation when you lift it and put it
back? >> Yep. >> Obviously, we said yesterday and you agreed the same ridge height. Uh, I forget whether any anything expo is anything exposed in your foundation or is it come right down to the boards? >> Comes right down to the board. You mean
if there are exposed foundation, they'll be six whatever code is six six inches I think. >> Okay. Yeah, >> thank you very much. >> Uh, so this is the right hand side elevation. The sun room built in the 70s is gone.
Um, and the the back part of it, which also must be in the 70s because it's all off of the uh the sun room. Uh, the new uh the existing L gable end will remain.
Um, and the on the back side of the house will be a new dormer. Um, and a new rear L extension. And if we go to I think the next one's a rear elevation. >> One comment on that drawing. Go back.
Obviously, there's a mistake on the drawing which you're going to correct. >> Wouldn't the chimney be seen >> in the prop? >> Oh, yes. >> Sorry about that. >> It will be there. >> Okay. Just just do me a favor. Just correct the drawing. Thank you, Robert. I got a thumbs up from Robert and and uh
and obviously we appreciate the foe similar to etc. et >> same location. >> Okay. All right. Thank you very much. >> Um and also on this one, Bob pointed out to me on the right hand side, even though I'm calling out that uh little addition as demo demo, I didn't
highlight it, but that square footage was also included in the square footage I gave you. >> Say that again. the right hand side little addition. >> Yes. >> Um I'm calling that out as demolished, but I didn't highlight it by accident.
>> Okay. >> Okay. But it's the numbers. It says demolish on underneath it and it calls out what the square footage is. Correct. That area. >> What was that room? Was that a >> It's a laundry room and a bathroom. So
>> more of a recent addition, I believe. >> Yeah. the house grew like kept changing with >> Yeah. >> Um and the windows uh on the rear of the Greek revival I think were pretty haphazard based on a bathroom they added
on the second floor and a kitchen window. So we're trying to bring back some symmetry on the lower rear elevation. We'll expose the corner board on the right hand side of the original Greek revival. Um the L roof line height
will remain. The dormer on the back of the L will remain. So our addition really is on the back of the house. Another wing that would be added um not visible from scattery
and right uh left elevation. Did we do that one yet? And again on the top we're taking that wing off that we saw on the rear. That's the laundry room and the powder room to really expose that Greek Revival facade.
Um adding a covered porch. Uh it's probably 30 feet back from that corner or 20 feet back from that corner. Uh so it's really not in line with it and again not visible from scattery.
>> Okay. You know, I had a recent conversation with a a renowned preservationist about the homes on the Cape, you know, from 17, 1800 and how they've grown. And this is a good example. And the question was there
probably were no architects around then. So things just happened. And it's different. and and and then the argument he was making with me is that I shouldn't allow these kinds of changes or is keep the architects out of it and
and and just let let it ramble because that's the way they did it. And I guess there's some >> that's why you have flat roofs with rubber roofing on the >> Oh, no. No question about it. I'm arguing, but it's just an interesting discussion because that happens a lot. >> Yeah, you need
>> I would I wouldn't say it's that interesting. >> Yes, it is. Okay. Anything else? >> I mean, you look at you look at the work Karen's done here. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's remarkable. She she works, you know, she knows her stuff frontwards
and backwards. >> Yeah. >> And so some guy says, "Don't touch anything." Well, that's what's called You know what that's called, Bill? It's called >> That's do nothing. That's a do nothing guy. We don't like them >> because the world is changing, Frank, if you haven't noticed. I love the fact
that you like to insult us and uh but and and still expect us to be nice to you, but uh anyway, we we'll ignore your comments and put it in a in the packet of your comments. >> I wasn't insulting you. I was insulting him.
>> I'm not insulting him. It's just a comment of an observation. Anyway, um I guess we we have any uh any comments from the members. I'm going to start with Peter. Um, yeah, looks like a good plan. Uh, glad to see you're exposing the Greek
Revival details. I think it's a, you know, definitely an improvement on what's there. So, I'd support it. >> Sandy, >> you did a good job, Karen. >> Thank you. >> However, here's my question. >> Not enough room.
>> The rooms that are there uh on these additions are small and tight. >> He was just being smart. Yeah, you did a great job. Looks good. >> I agree with Peter. And the question as to the rooms, I looked at that, too. The bedrooms are all, I think, 9 by 12,
which is not uh overly generous. I think we've got one of those in our house. You can barely fit a double bed. So, it's uh did a good job. And I read all that material from the form B in recognition that Karen was going to account for that. So, good.
>> Thank you, Janet. No, I think it's a great recreation of the original um structure. So, I think uh so I would support this. >> Will the new shingles be matching the other shingles on the house? >> The roof shingles. They'll be
>> the new >> new shingles. >> Yes, they'll be white cedar shingles. We'll probably reshingle the house though. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Somewhat disrepair. >> Reingle the whole house. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Bob. >> Robert, sorry. Uh just uh thank you for
making these drawings so that we can understand it so easily. It it really helps us. I know you've worked on it for a long time, but we just get a short window to look at it. So when it's presented like this, it makes it easy. I have no issue. Can they not put a real
fireplace in here instead of just a faux? >> Uh because, as you said, the rooms are so tight. Getting a chimney through the second floor if we put in a real fireplace makes those rooms even smaller. So, we're trying to avoid >> but even even if it was gas or
>> Well, we are putting a gas fireplace in. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, thank you again. >> Yes, Mr. Wilson. >> Sure. Um I I think uh three three of the features uh struck me as making this I
agree with all the people who spoken before and I did visit the property and there are three features that really make it outstanding I think and one is the full basement lifting the house and giving this this great house Greek revisal house a chance to survive
another 150 years with a full basement. Second, uh, when I saw this drawing, you know, it looked straight out of, apologies if anyone lives there, but it looks straight out of River Bay and it
perfect for Riverbay for 1970s, but it really doesn't match the Greek Revival style, and I'm glad to see it go really. And the uh, third thing is the foul chimney. I think a chimney, you know, even if it's not wood burning,
gives an illusion to the past. I mean, houses through 1920 or so had to have a chimney or they couldn't have heat. So, it makes people think of historic things. So, I like the f chimney. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. I think uh we've got a strong consensus here. Uh before we proceed, we do have one piece of correspondence. uh which is uh I think from a neighbor on 19 I'm not sure what the address is.
All right, we got it here. Uh but I'm going to read it. It it's really a bit outside our jurisdiction and Germaine, but I just just to be correct, I will read the covering letter, not the entire uh correspondence. Uh it's from Joe
Pis Bassini Passini. >> Passina and uh I'm writing on behalf of the Bassini 2012 trust dated December 17, 2012. The trust receiver received an abutter notice of a public hearing
regarding the application filed by attorney William Riley on behalf of Mystery Cake LLC Scattery owner seeking demolition and alteration of an existing structure at 119 Scattery Road Scattery property. The attached view easement was
recorded in May 9th, 2022 by the Bonsible County Register of De's. The easement the view easement encumbers the scattery property and benefits the trust of budding property contains restrictions on the placement of structures within the designated view easement area on any height of any ridge
line of any and all structures on the scattery property on the height of vegetation within the easement areas and other matters. It is unclear whether existing plans for the new structure on the scattery property submitted to the historical commission comply with the views easements terms. The trust is in
direct is in contact with the scatter owner and the parties have agreed that any final design must comply with the terms of the view agreement. We provide the view agreements commission may consider it during the review of its pending application and reflect on it as
the commission deems appropriate in any report findings or recommendation presented to the Chattam Building Department planning board zoning board of appeals or any municipality in connection with this matter. Feel free to let us know if any town agency should receive a copy of the viewme. Please do
not hesitate to contact me with any questions. All the best, Joe Piscani. Okay. Um again, this is really outside our purview and u I guess it's up to the applicant and the uh particular parties involved to uh
discuss what what issues and we certainly don't enforce any eligibility to view easements. Thank you very much. Any other comments? Nope. All right. I guess we can get a motion to approve the application. I'm sorry, Sam. You guys
>> One quick question. If for any reason you are violating the view easement, you'd have to change and come back to us. Correct. >> The view easement doesn't have any effect on our project. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. But the answer to that is yes. >> Okay. That's what I want. I mean
obviously if it change if the application changes you know we we work that within the building department and whether or not an whether or not they're required you know you have to remember just for general information uh when we after we review a deter after we make a determination sometimes things happen
and there are relatively minor changes to things and the way the commission has operated in the past when they're very little change it's not maybe something significant between the the vice chair and the chair myself and the secretary we we converse and say, "Yeah, it it's not that insignificant." And we document
it, okay? And if it's anything, it's like what we do with the administrative changes, you know, because we can't keep dragging people back here every time somebody wants to move aboard two feet if it doesn't really affect the historical significance. So anyway, that's the way we've been operating in our rules and regulations. Okay, I think
we can a motion. Bob, >> this uh Cadam his I move the Chattam Historical Commission als shall find that the proposed work to be done dated April 10th, 2026 will not materially diminish the historic significance of the building and therefore the commission does not impose a demolition
delay. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any other comments? Bob, >> yes. >> Steph, >> yes. >> Robert, >> yes. >> Janet, >> yes. >> Robert Wilson, >> yes. Sandy Porter. >> Yes.
>> And the chair votes. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Nice to see you, Karen. >> And you, Bill. >> Hi, Bill. >> Hey, Frank. I I do have to comment that I'm surprised that a guy named Msina was having trouble pronouncing Pina.
>> Exactly. >> Well, no comment. I'm actually not Italian. >> I never thought you were. >> No, I'm I'm Greek. >> Greek. >> Greek Sicilian, Bill. Okay, here we go. Uh, we have a just a couple of quick
things to minor discussion. So, we're going to get out here before 11. We're going to set another record. We have no new business, no administrative uh approvals. Uh, the uh the issue of preservation restrictions which I am pursuing at the
behest of uh protect our past and oursel Eller Briggs. Uh, we have requested through Dean Niccastro. I don't think Dean is online. Nope. Uh the select board and our uh our representative and they have requested a legal council
comments and the purpose of this is uh the town of Chadam selectment get involved. They haven't done this in a long time and so it's a relatively new board and we want to make and they're going to have questions. So, we kind of preclude it, let the let the attorney
come up to speed, put something together, give it to the select board so they know what the process is, how the town is involved, and uh and we'll proceed. So, nothing moves quickly as we'd like, but we're moving. Okay. Uh
the uh the boat house, it's moving along and um I noticed they've got the uh the the one of the the docks are in so people can actually uh pull up to the back of the boat house if so it's getting there and you know March 2027
still the target for uh for an opening and a dedication and that's around the same time we'll hopefully uh submit our request to National Register. for designation as a national register structure. Uh I expect the application relative to the Nichson family
association uh formal application relative to national register soon but it's like everything else it's it's coming. That's it. We have no other items of business. Does anybody have anything they'd like to discuss or add to a future agenda?
Okay. Any member of the public wish to speak? Seeing none, move for adjournment. >> I move we adjourn the meeting. >> I'll second. >> Thank you. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Nancy, oh, excuse me. Steph, >> yes. >> Robert,
>> yes. >> Janet Tennyson, >> yes. >> Bob Wilson, >> yes. >> Sandy Porter, >> yes. >> Peter Donovan, >> yes. >> And the chair votes. Thank you very much, guys. Oh, >> we broke a record.