Uh good evening. Uh, my name is Art Sprew. I'm chair of the planning board. This is the Town of Cadam Planning Board hybrid meeting October 27th, 2025. It's 5:00 p.m. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will will be
available shortly thereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, please notify the chair. I don't see any notifications.
Pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 ex extending certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the opening meeting law general law
chapter 3A section 20 until June 30th 2027. This meeting of the Chattam Planning Board is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that
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realtime access. We will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. I'll begin with the roll call vote. Warren chain. >> Warren Shane present. >> Bob Worchhatter. >> Bob Worchhatter present. >> Frank Shear. >> Frank Sher present.
>> Bob Dubis. >> Bob Dubis present. >> Uh Charlene Greenhall and Katherine Halpurn are absent and Arts Bruhim present. Um the minutes were from the meeting on
September 22nd, 2025. There was only four members present for that meeting and we don't have those four me members present for it tonight. I would just suggest we defer this to the next meeting if that's >> Well, I I could so so everybody has it there. There is one change perhaps.
>> Sure. >> Because I think it's going to do that. >> Um it's under the release of covenant for 35 and 50 stson. um third paragraph where he it's 1.5% I
think that would be 150%. Christine it's just a typo I think it's >> okay. Yeah, good catch. Okay, so we'll bring this uh up for a vote um when the full four
members are present. Um, next is the definitive subdivision. This is 104 Crow Road, Eldridge. We received a notification. Um, spoke to any owners who've agreed to continue this hearing until November
10th, 2025. Do I have a motion for that? >> Some So moved. >> And a second. >> Second. >> Okay, we'll do a roll call vote. Warren Chain, >> approve. Um Bob wore approved. Frank Sheer
>> approve. >> Bob Dwis >> I can't answer that question. >> Oh okay. Um you >> I can't answer that question. >> All right. You abstain and then Artsboro I approve. Next site plan approval amended site
change for 71 Crawl Road. We have also received a letter from um the EP applicants engineer on this on behalf of CCNY Inc. Uh I am writing to respectfully request a continuence of the site plan approval
amended amended change of use application for 71 CL road until a meeting on November 10th. Uh for do we have a motion to continue? >> So moved. >> And I have a second.
>> I second. >> Okay. Do a roll call vote. Uh Warren Chain >> approve. Um Bob Wchfter >> approve. Frank Shear, >> approve. >> Uh Bob Dubis, >> approve. >> And approve. >> Art Sprew, I approve.
>> All right. Uh let's see. And now we have a site plan approval for 1291 Main Street, Unit 1A, Burgess Madam
Fish and Lobster. if you could uh uh probably go to that one there. >> So, it does appear as though we also have um someone watching online with regard to this application. I don't know that we'll need them, but >> I believe >> Okay. Okay.
>> So, if you could introduce yourself. >> Eric Burgess. I'm the project manager for all of Max Chadam's operations. uh and you explain the uh re application of the project and what you're asking for. >> So, this is a change of use application.
We're basically looking to turn what one of our what was a rental unit into an oper extension of our operations on that site. And we want to turn it from strictly retail into a hybrid ice cream shop and retail space. No exterior work.
It's all inside the building, inside the unit. We're just reconfiguring and we are requesting a change of use approval. >> Okay. >> Can you point out which which >> property it is? >> Yes. >> So if you look
>> Yeah. >> Unfortunately, there's a there's a pointer by >> I don't know how it works, but >> there you go. >> Ah, there you go. So, it's hard for me to see. All right. So, >> speak into the mic, though, please.
>> I'm sorry. >> This appears to be the fish market space right here. So, it would be this unit right here. >> Okay. I I understand you're also um changing some of the striping and adding three
parking spaces. that was done as um per the last approval we have when we renovated the um the space that was the old fish market and turned it into the tap room. Okay. >> So, that work's been completed. It's just that it's still on that site plan
>> because there's no changes to the outside. I didn't feel like it was necessary to submit a new site plan >> for this particular project. >> Okay. Uh any questions from the board, Bob? Because this is going to be for an ice cream.
>> Yes. Ice cream and and a hybrid of ice cream and retail. >> Okay. Are there going to be any outside windows? >> No. >> No. So, it's all inside. >> All inside. >> Good to go. >> Any other questions? >> Um just for my um recollection, how many
approved seats are now u authorized? So there's no change to the um there was no seats before but in the calculations we're actually going down because to as I understood in my pre-planning meeting
uh the town planner and other town officials we only require two seats to have what we thought was going to be 100% takeout. Um but in because of the zone we're in they're required to have at least two seats. So that's one spot.
Um, and we're only going to have two employees. So, we're actually it's a net gain of two spots because we only need four spots according to the calculations and we have six allotted for that unit. >> Yeah. Now, the question was really how many approved seats do you have for
patrons? >> Well, we >> for the site >> for the whole entire building or just for that unit? >> No, for the whole building. Just from my recollection, I don't remember something. Um like
>> I thought it was around 101 before that order. >> Yes. >> Well, that's the parking spaces. >> That's the number of parking spaces. So, you're looking for the number of seats? >> Yeah, >> I believe it's 90 something for the for the restaurant and for the um the tap
room. I'm sorry I wasn't prepared to answer that question 100% accurately because I wasn't aware that would come up. >> Right. Well, we're not asking for any increase. >> No, we're aware of that. Thank you. No other questions.
>> Uh Frank, um Christine, you noted in the memo there was an inconsistency on the number of parking places. >> I think now that the um project manager had just answered the question with regard to that because I was I didn't understand that those were existing
>> spaces. I thought they were new proposed spaces. No, they're all existing now. We've had everything restriped. So, we're we're in compliance uh for the the amount of volume that we have. >> So, you're you're happy now? >> I'm happy now. Yes. Um >> so, the as the applicant had said, they
had come in um and met with the director of community development, the zoning um liaison, and the uh building commissioner in addition to myself to go over the proposed thing. There is a hallway between
um the an internal hallway in the in the within the building to get back and forth for for their purposes, but it will not be for the public's and then this is seen as a supplemental thing to the existing main use of the site. So, it'll be like
an add-on service thing, but there's no additional I know there had been a lot of questions about whether or not there was any additional seating outside. Um the only thing that I would uh remind the applicant if you do put any additional signage or anything like that then you need to come back before um
some of the different boards and then the DPW um had expressed interest in making sure that the um pavement markings um throughout the site especially at the entrance and exit um that they be clearly identified so we can kind of
help people get through the site there. >> But other than that we had no other issues. We we actually have done that recently. We we did redid all the entry markings and all the space markings per that last approval for our previous project there. And I've got photographs
that I can share with with the town if they require or they're welcome to go to the site, but it's and we're going to be doing a storm drain project there next after this. Um and we're going to end up restriping the whole entire parking lot
at that point. We didn't see it as being something we should do right now because they got to tear up a lot of the the driveway when we do that storm drain work. >> Um the only comment I have is anything you can do to um during during the um
peak peak summer months. You get a lot of visitors there and they're not necessarily in tune about a best route to take on your property. anything you could do to improve that communication whether it's by striping or by signs
>> that would be great. Um I know the rest of the year it really doesn't have too much of an effect but certainly during during those busy months if somebody goes the wrong way and they're trying to park when the stripes are parked are pointed the wrong way it's sort of tough for them to do that. they sort of figure
it out. But >> no doubt we uh >> it's more of a mess for you than it is for us. But >> knock on wood, we had no incidents this summer. So we're we're um thinking that the re the remarking work that we have done and the added lighting per our last
approval have alleviated that situation or drivers are getting better. We're not quite sure. >> I don't think they're getting better around here. >> They're being educated. So, so I I guess my question is very
similar to that because um the the ice cream store is not going to have a front sign no >> on it. So, they're going to have to direct people to it. So, what it's going to have is, and we haven't gone to approval for the signage yet, but there
was next to our fish market sign on the overhang roof, there was a sign for Cape Shark, and then the pre the subsequent tenant after that, and we plan on putting an ice cream shop sign in that space, same size, and then we're going
to put a sign some signage on the glass door, you know, keeping within keeping of the 10% coverage regulation. Okay. So, they'll come in and they'll they'll make a left turn and >> Yeah. And what we're thinking is that mainly this is going to be for
restaurant customers. We're not going to actively pursue any outside advertising is, you know, come eat ice cream. We're we're we're feeling it's going to be a natural extension of the restaurant that we have now where it's not possible for
us to do anything but ice cream sandwich options because we just don't have the room. >> Okay. All right. >> So, they will be going before the historic business district commission for signage. just if if it was on the other side and they came in then they would be
>> having to go all the way around. That's correct themselves in the right direction. So, but in this case, I think >> it naturally will go across and then make the turn. So, >> yep. I'm not >> Okay. Um if there's no other comments or
question, Frank, yes. >> Well, this isn't for the applicant, but uh on the proposed conditions. >> Yep. Um, number two talks about future lighting. Um, for both of the Penrose projects,
we've now asked that it be warm lighting not greater than 3,200 Kelvin. >> Right. >> I'm wondering whether we should now start integrating that into our conditions. >> We can revise your conditions any way that you want going forward. Um, I
usually take just the standard ones each time and carry them forward. So, if that's something you want to do going forward, I know that um the applicant has addressed that they have put the lighting in already, but we can definitely do that going forward for all other things or even for this one if you want me to put in some specific
specific. >> I I don't want to create any problems for the applicant. I I if if lighting is already in, it's >> just going forward though, we might want to >> Okay. All right. I think that's by you and then we can propose it to the board >> for the next one. Okay.
>> Okay. All right, that uh I guess I entertain um a motion to approve the site plan approval amended change of use with conditions for the proposed ice cream shop with retail merch merchandise in
sport of max uh cadam fish and lobster meets the necessary requirements for the criteria for approval pursuant to the protective zoning bylaw with the conditions as stated above. >> I'll make that move. Motion second. Okay, we'll do a roll call vote. Orin
Jane, >> approve. >> Bob Worcha. >> Bob Worchafter approve. Frank Shear, >> approve. >> Approved. And Arts Brew, I approve. >> Great. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next, we have
>> a approval. Approval not required. And do we have an applicant? >> Yes. you go ahead step up and introduce yourself and >> yeah say before we get going on this one um
your application package it seemed like the uh surveyor or the engineer accidentally put another plan at the back of it. So we want to just make sure that everybody knows that was not part of >> it's got nothing to do with this. It was for 817 Riverview Drive. >> I'm sorry about that.
>> That's okay. >> It was a mistake. uh if you could introduce yourself and explain your project. >> My name is Jeff Cronin. I'm from Ryder and Wilcox uh in Orleans. I am representing Anne Smolinsky and also her
son Tom Smolinsky. I'm here to request endorsement of an approval not required plan showing a division of 725 Old Harbor Road, map 15, parcel 1984, into two lots 4 A and 4B.
Uh, lot 4 A will retain required lot area and lot frontage. Lot 4B is not a buildable lot and will be combined with a budding lot at 55 Winward Passage, which is her son Tom Sansky's property in the rear. Um,
they share the rear lot line and that's basically it. If you have any questions, please go ahead. >> Um, any board member have any questions of the applicant? I don't have a question of the applicant to say, but um I'm this is the first
time it's come up, but the new law that allows building on smaller lots >> Oh, yeah. >> is now relevant. >> Mhm. because we don't we we it says their proposed lot 4B does not have sufficient
frontage but according to the new law requirements of the state that doesn't matter anymore and they can build something on >> it. >> Well, I think they still have to have uh accessible frontage to a public way or a way. Frank, you you
>> Yeah, I I just wanted to say that uh we we still have to adopt and there's a time limit our uh version of of that provision that you're talking about. And one of the things that we can do and we
ought to consider doing is putting in a ratio um of you know square footage to total square footage of the property. >> Um and this is a very small lot. So if we had that kind of ratio, it wouldn't be a problem,
>> right? And I don't think it's fair to this gentleman to to hold this up. I was just pointing this out that it's not >> So what happens in this particular case or when we see an ANR, one of the things that I always make sure is on there is that it says it's not buildable. So the
plan note, I usually have them put it on the plan note and then also within the small piece that it's a non-buildable lot. Period. That's it. So they and this this also states the purpose so that they're going to merge it with the other purpose. >> The question that came up today when Art
and I were discussing it is will you be doing a merger um an ANR with a merger of those two lots or will you be doing that by deed or are they just going to erase the line and go? >> Usually we would just do that by deed. >> By deed. Okay. Um, so that that was the
only question about how we had it. But so in this particular case, you would be covered from that because it's they've said right on there the purpose of it and you know, >> but going forward, I'm I'm not sure that's going to work. >> Oh, you don't think that's going to work enough? >> Right. So I think we're going to be
required to allow building on undersized lots. >> Again, I think you have to take a look at the criteria. still has to have an accessible way >> and and we're talking about affordables and there's there's other requirements but
>> um we've got to work and this is one of the priorities we need to come up with this >> this year actually uh there's a time limit >> so u Bob did you have >> I odd question probably so so the lot
they're cutting off of the primary building right here they're They're taking this lot and giving it to the sun. >> Yes. >> Which is a Butsum >> in the rear. Yes. >> How How big is the sun's lot? >> It's a 22,000 square feet.
>> Okay. And this makes it 30,000 square foot. >> It It will make it >> So it gives What it does is give them an extra bedroom. >> Yeah. >> I I'm not sure about that. I just know that they wanted to build the fence in a different place. >> I'm I'm just saying. But that's that's
what it tally that's what it does. It gives them another 10 square 10,000 square feet to put another bedroom on, >> right? >> Which which is totally okay. I'm I'm It's a good way to do it. Okay. >> So, I'm I'm in favor. I'm I'm in favor of this, you know. But that's what it does.
>> Yep. >> Gives them an extra lot. I'm an extra bedroom. >> All right. And any other comments, questions, board members? >> No. All right. So entertain a motion to endorse the ANR plan entitled the plan of land in Chattam Mass owned by an Sol
Linski being a division of lot 4 shown on uh PL book uh 253 page 96 prepared by D. Jeffrey Cronin PLS for Ryder and Wilcox dated October
8th, 2025. >> So moved >> and second and we'll do a roll call vote. Warren Chain >> approve. >> Uh Barb Burer >> approved. >> Frank Sheer >> approve. >> Uh Bob Dubis >> approved. >> And Arts Bur approve. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Uh I I think that was some uh interesting points that of what we might have to deal with on this coming up between now and Maytown meeting. >> I I only read through a part of that uh guidance.
>> I only went through for a part of the guidance that was attached to our packet here. Uh it's just in draft form, but I think that we have to ask some questions about this. Well, the law is not in draft form. >> Yeah. >> The law is pretty clear. >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> Um the applicant is asking about the
thing. I'm going to have the planning board members sign the um myar and then we'll scan it and we'll get back to you tomorrow to come pick it up. >> I'll pick it up whenever it's ready. >> Yeah. So, we Annie will Annie or myself will reach out to you with that. >> And I do agree. I guess I didn't quite
understand the um bedroom thing number one with that that that would open up because that other lot is built upon. So, thank you for explaining that to me. Now, and then number two, obviously that we need to uh I'm thinking that the I was thinking that the non-buildable was
covering it and we were given the reason why. Yeah. >> But I I I can see what you're saying about that now. So, I will start looking into that because I do think that that's probably one of the more important things that you do because we seem to have a lot of these little things that come forward.
>> Yeah. >> Well, and it's interesting. Who does it come before? Does it come before any board at all in town? >> Well, it it has to come before us. It's it's a zoning change. >> So, that would be for the zoning change,
but say the zone change passes. I mean, then it's just a building department issue, isn't it? It doesn't even have to come before us. >> I would think so. >> That's the problem. We're creating this little small space that we said is unbuildable. Now, it's not that's that's no longer
>> still it still has to comply with with the building code, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean for setbacks and things like that. >> No, >> no, that's out the door now. >> This is why we have to focus on it right away. >> I think you are very correct on that.
But it is the case that from what has been said here is it a commit is it an obligation to merge the lot once it's merged into the a buttered lot then the whole question of a small lot on which you might have a >> my understanding is they an ANR that
doesn't have to define what that I mean he noted it on here but they don't have to >> just in yeah >> in the conversation it's clear their intent is to merge it with the >> with joining lot >> now we have a reason why makes sense, >> right?
>> Um but at the same time, um the the question of having to have zoning that, um recognizes this small lot as perhaps becoming buildable would be moot if in fact there were now an obligation to merge as they indicated they're going
to. Well, I think Bob uh Dubis brought up an interesting point because if if the lots do not have sewer and it's a small lot of How does Border Health deal with this with a septic system? >> No, that's that's no problem. They got 30,000 square feet.
>> No, I'm talking about a small lot. I mean, a small lot. >> What What happens if it's like Frank said, it has to have access to a street. >> Yeah. >> Or or a way or something like that. >> Eastman or something. Well, a lot that and the setbacks and stuff that that has
to be looked into and and you just can't force a small square lot on your town and change everything without uh some kind of >> feed or or you know, they just can't make a small lot and say, "Okay, here's a small lot now, >> right?
>> Uh what kind of house they're going to put on it?" Obviously, a small one. Was this for? There's this for the ones that you can buy >> and come in a kit and you just unfold them. Yeah. >> And there's a house. Single bedroom. Sing single bedroomedroom house. >> And there's no any lot can have one
bedroom. >> Yeah. >> No matter what size it is. >> No matter what size. >> But we do have lot sizes in this town. >> Yeah. >> Uh but it's going to be it's going to be a very interesting uh thing to get into. It's going to take a little while. I think >> I I think
>> since we have such an expert here that's looked into it, I think we have a spokesman right here, >> right? Um but we'll have to we should put this on our agenda uh uh one of our meetings so that we do have uh background and
discussion on this and flush this out a little bit before we even take any action because I'm not quite sure what it is that we should or shouldn't do association with this. >> Yeah, it's it's it's in the seasonal uh rules, >> right? Yeah. So, >> well, Mr. Chairman, that we normally d
deal with people that are moving lot lines to to help their neighbors for one, >> right? >> Or to uh again make the lot coverage >> a little different than what it was so that they can build a different spot. >> Uh just because it's not buildable, it's
not buildable by itself, >> right? So like it's like you say when they merge it that becomes >> that lot be doesn't become a lot anymore becomes a part of a the main thing. >> That's right. >> So but but uh as as what Frank's saying that this now is going to become a
problem. >> Yeah. >> Um like you can have small lots and how I believe because they allow trailers. >> Oh really? and and and but with the small the new fad is the small houses
>> and they come in a package and you unfold them and they fold right up and there's nothing wrong with them. >> We just have to be prepared for it. >> Yeah. >> Where, how, and what. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um
the um next piece is the if there's any um anything the board would like to go over the the final letter that went out to the ZBA on zero meeting house road that was included in your packet. Uh if
there are any uh comments or questions associated with this. I had worked >> we did receive one comment from Warren. Yep. um uh about I forgot exactly what you can read
it right. >> Well, it wasn't by objecting anything by >> I'm sorry. It wasn't with regard to objecting to anything that was in the draft, but only um >> added that what is in the draft, I
think, is um insufficient to explain what I think the board's um preference would be with respect to the access to the bike path. >> The the safety of it. You're right. >> Yeah. The safety of it. >> Y >> uh it's going to be a winding path. It's
going to be going down to the bike path. people are going fast, >> going up, you're likely to be walking. Um, so I mean, it really ought to be wider and this width of it specified and there ought to be something in there talking about there ought to be a way to
get off of the bike path and not into the poison ivy. There ought to be a >> y a transition to the woods >> uh because it's just woods at the moment. >> Um, and you know, it did seem to me the safety issue was of sufficient import to talk about the
uh sidewalk that is going to be over on uh the main road. >> Yep. >> Um and that seems to me access to that bike path is going to be down that path and therefore that path ought to be very clearly
um made a priority with respect to the safety issues of >> of being able to wide enough so you can pass. you're going to have electric bikes on there, you know, until somebody can figure out how to keep them off the bike paths, etc., etc. So, that was the
reason for my comment that I thought we could perhaps elaborate and put a little more teeth in in the comment that we had. >> Um, I I haven't seen any updated plans from the applicant yet. they they have been responding to um peerreview
comments but they haven't made any um adjustments >> based on anything that we've indicated. I think they will have other they did indicate especially with a peer review response from uh the traffic comments. They did talk
about at least three or four items that were changed and they were being modified by a plan, a plan that has not been submitted yet. I think it'll give us another opportunity. Um I I noted that um one of the other things that
they wanted to do is they they note on there that the drive is supposed to be a transfer to the town to own and maintain and a portion of a drainage would be and then an access
point off of um meeting house road to get to that drainage for maintenance is being provided. The trouble is is they have a horrible uh access as it interfaces with meeting house road and that should be
corrected too. I don't remember seeing that before but I did see it in the most recent one. So I think there's going to be other opportunities for us to comment and I think we can include this and maybe a few others once we see the an updated plan because I think there's
still going to be things to be resolved. I thought a big one is um the number of parking places. I'm not quite sure where that's going. That that could change the entire dynamics of this. They are really short changing
this. This is not as um uh as many opportunities as they have over at 1533 Main Street. Um there's no place else to park. And these are two and most of these are two and three bedrooms. They've got to warrant a second a second
vehicle in many cases. Bob, >> I was I was noticing that they only they they uh allotted 1.5 parking places to each unit. >> Yep. >> Which I never seen. Well, I have seen a few.5
cars, but uh I'm I'm a little wondering how the heck do you get a 1.5 car uh one car and then another one beside it or behind it? I I think that um something something else have have to come around. Either that or
we'll buy scooters. Well, um I think our our our letter to the uh ZBA said that we suggested that they use the 1.85 that they used at uh 1533 Main Street and that would increase the
number of spaces up from 61 to 78. Um there's no place else for these vehicles to go. So what happens when additional people want to bring a vehicle into that unit? There's >> there's 42 units. Maybe they can bring it through the twine field and park it out in the bushes.
>> Yeah. But I I think that's a major point that we have to continue to bring forward. We we run into parking as being one of the biggest things with site plans and I view this as a site plan even though it's a residential, but it
is a site that they're building in here. And if they have no place else to go, where are they going to go? Are they going to park it in um in where the bike parking is across the street there? I mean, it's it's not it's not a good way
to actually end up. And you don't want them parking on one um on meeting house road. That's State Road. >> They'll probably park on on the on the road going over the bridge going up. >> Yeah. >> On the on the side, reducing it to one lane. That's that's probably what will happen.
>> Yeah. So I I I think we have to keep pushing this point that there needs to be some uh some adjustment for that piece of it particularly for this site. >> Well, there is the access road to the drainage part that could uh >> That's true.
>> They could fill in a little bit and make a few parking p places there and you have to walk up or or get a good get one of those golf carts to drive you around. >> I mean, it's it's a challenging site. No question about it, but with the number of units that they're putting in there and I think that they
>> they put in more units than I think what the RFP was. >> The RFP had recommended a certain number of units and this is above and beyond that above and beyond. So maybe that is where they should start with regard to the review, you know, >> and I think the recommendation in the RFP was be because it was a difficult
site. It's not a flat site like uh 1533 Main Street. So it it has its challenges. Um, I think we're going to have some more bites at the apple in here. I'd like to see that the updated plans. I'd like to see what they're doing to uh with the butters and their
access. I like to see the sidewalk that goes all the way down to um 28. Um there's a lot of things that I think that they haven't haven't even addressed as part of their original submission that they hopefully will will address with subsequent submissions. Well, you
know, my comment about the bike path was along the the um your thought just to make sure they're aware of our concerns so when we finally do see it, it's not oh well gee, we never >> Well, with respect to the parking, it would seem to me where I come from is the number of spaces authorized should
certainly be no less than has been proposed and is going forward for the main street site. That would be it can't be less than that, >> right? Um, but it's also the case that it's a bigger concern to me for uh for the meeting house road site because in
addition to parking spaces, there needs to be places for delivery trucks. There needs to be a potential space for a school bus stop or for a public transportation bus stop for um uh for service vehicles that are there. Um
all of that has never been identified on the prophet that we have. We've known that in our comments. >> But the point is the available space that is there that requires the number of spaces that they were requesting which is you know inadequate
um which provides no space for those other activities which is needed. So there's even less available for the space, put it this way, the spaces they've provided cannot be provided as well as uh because it cannot be provided
if they were to allocate some of the available space for delivery trucks, for service vehicles, for a bus stop, etc. So the parking is more critical it seems to me than even um what is superficially
the case just having read the proposal and our comments. So >> so um again it's uh if there's some other things that um we need to uh look into on this and comment on I think
we'll have opportunities. Please make your notes on this. We'll put it we'll keep it on our agenda. I don't see in the next uh three meetings that the ZBA has that there have a meeting with about the meeting house road site.
>> But is there any requirement that with that uh a new plan come before us? They reference an updated plan in and we you haven't seen the the uh responses to the traffic comments from the peerreview
consultant. Um that was Tyen Bond. There was responses from the applicant on that and in there they've uh say stated that there is going to be revisions and updates to the plan to address some of the comments from the peer review. They
haven't stated what those are. So we haven't seen them yet and as soon as >> but is there a requirement for a 40B proposal to come forward before this board with revised plan? >> I didn't no only did the ZBA. Yeah, that's why I wanted to make sure that the comments
about the bike path and then the parking are somehow relayed to the people that are going to give final okay to this >> um >> since it won't necessarily come back to us with a plan to look at >> but we have a very alert u town planner
and community so I'm certain we'll be advised >> yes we have a good we have a good rapport with the um zoning board liaison so we we are getting all of the updates um I do I think it can be in the next in the next letter. I do think you should eventually do a follow-up, but I think
we should just wait a little bit until we get those revised plans. Um there was something that came in today with the traffic study review. So, they will have to do some um they'll have to do some revisions to the plans and then it'll give us another opportunity to say what
our concerns are. They might not solicit our concerns, but that does not mean that we can't give them. did a very good job of listening to us on the other property. >> Well, at least at least they had to read this whole big long letter into the uh
into the into the record. So, >> um uh I think that uh looking for and one of the things that I listened to the uh last meeting the that the board had that I missed. I listened to the
entire meeting and um it was very good comments by the board and I took a lot of those worked them into the draft that uh Charlene and and Christine had put together. I had added a few and even there was a comment from the public associated with that especially on the
entrance drive. I thought that was a very important comment where that's very narrow. It doesn't really provide a good safe access if some children have to walk down in there. only had guardrail. So, um I had put in a section in there.
Let's put a buffer between the sidewalk and the p and the roadway in addition to the guardrail. Put a fence along each side because uh it's uh guardrail doesn't really prevent anybody from that's walking by. Um and who knows what
children can do as they're skipping and running to a bus stop. And um so I I thought those were certainly additional safety things that was brought up at a p uh at the by one of the members from the public and I thought that was very
worthwhile including in the letter. So I did add that. Okay. Uh I think the other thing that I'd like to go over and has to do with long range planning if any other comments on this one before we leave then no. Um
um I've asked um uh uh Christine to take a look at uh times, but perhaps we can uh go out for uh public input and discussion on the West Chadam Neighborhood Center. The the last time we had done this, we
had um met at the uh community center in the large room upstairs on that on a Saturday. I would propose that we do that again. And I think Christine you said that is a fairly uh flexible schedule associated with that. >> Right. There is a fairly flexible
schedule. We are still waiting for the seasonal communities. You all had that as part of this package and then a few other things that you had brought up. >> Um I would say that the uh seasonal communities piece we need to right look at first because that's going to impact all of those other things. Right.
>> Staff is beginning to work on the ADU bylaw which will ultimately come before you as well. Um so those two things can happen prior to West Cadam. Um we need to get those things in place and then see how this these two comprehensive
permits for the the 40Bs are going forward. So um it'll kind of be a a couple of different things moving and coming before you to review. I think it's it's easier than starting your own um bylaw and from scratch uh because
it'll be all different departments bringing it in together and then it'll be a review of it for a reality check. Um >> we will still have to hold a public hearing on it though. Correct. >> Yes. Yes. You you will ultimately get
>> the last word before it goes to to town council and then the the select board holds their public hearings as well. It's going to it's going to be a busy public hearing schedule coming uh next year. So, I I think for us to get at
least anformational session, I'd like to get two out on the West Chadam Neighborhood Center, perhaps one in December, one in maybe February. Um, I I plan on putting together something with Christine about what is it that we should be conveying out there
at at one of these public information meetings and and soliciting input. Um, but if uh any of the board members have any thoughts on that, just send a note to Christine and then she and I can work something up on this. Okay.
Art, just for my clarification for me, are we planning to um propose amendments to our draft as a result of the seasonal communities designation? >> Well, I'm thinking of we can now put
reference in there for >> that was that was what you were supposed to be doing. Um, we still don't have the draft the the seasonal communities thing that you looked at in your package today. That's out for public comment at the state level at this point. That's not finalized. I don't anticipate that it'll change much. Um I had spoken to
Katie about it today and she doesn't think it'll it'll probably change much based on the public comment period either. >> Um >> and we did the town already had accepted the seasonals community >> component of that. So that's why we're going to need to make sure we get that
piece an understanding of that piece and then some of those other things that were brought up tonight. And then the ADU piece is important because we're working right now because we don't have anything with regard to the ADUs really and I bylaw we're working off of the
state one on that one. So and then those two will kind of fill into the West Chadam. So realistically you might not see West Chadam in time for um this town meeting. I I you know I I don't know to be very honest with you. I
mean, you can keep moving on it, but all of these other pieces are going to have to be clearly spelled out before that goes forward. >> Um, this this memorandum here for you. So, this is just to the planning board of all of the things that we're talking about. It's not in any specific order or
anything like that. Um, it's been the things that you're mentioning. And um we will based on as as the meetings go over the next couple of the next two months, you know, we'll kind of fine-tune it a little bit and this will be brought into the um planning board's annual report
that goes to the select board. So this letter won't be going to them. But >> I I thought one of the things I was looking for is was there anything about affordable obtainable housing in the seasonal community piece? And I didn't see other than the the tiny homes and
tiny lot piece, I didn't see anything similar to what we had drafted in the West Chadam Neighborhood Center. >> So I don't I don't see what we have drafted as anything other than a good step to go forward within within um uh
what what we've been doing. So I don't see that as requiring a revision. we might want to refine things, but uh until we have some input from um the public, I'm not quite sure what is it that we should focus on. >> Yeah, I I um admit that I haven't spent
a lot of time looking on it, but I don't see any uh reason to change West Chadam based on the seasonal. That's kind of where >> I I didn't see anything either, but I just did a quick read at it uh since I've been back. You might not you might not change anything realistically, but
timing is going to matter in this particular case. Right? If there's two outstanding comprehensive permit or or 40B applications that are through there, you know, going through the process and all of that stuff, people might be hesitant to to so you might >> sure, >> you know, you might want to plan
accordingly based on that so you don't have another >> Okay. >> You know, I mean, so you've got to read the room basically is what I'm getting at. And I and I think that's a reason for probably at least two of these u um presentations to the community outreach
program um would be helpful. Probably not to do as much of talking as it is hitting the highlights of it and then asking for thoughts and inputs from the community because that's what we're looking for. We're looking for a supportive vote on this. If there is
some objection to something there, maybe it is something that we uh think is is a good idea. We hadn't uh addressed it completely and we can refine it. We certainly did enough refinement at the beginning of uh this year before we got
to the to the point of where we are right now. I I I feel very comfortable in the outcome of what we've produced so far, though. It's it's it's solid and certainly there might be an item here or there that we didn't think about that
the public brings up. >> Yeah, I um echo what Frank said. I'm no expert and I have only read it a couple of times, but it does seem to me there's an opportunity for us to perhaps strengthen a couple of the strong
uh preferences of the board with respect to West Adam Neighborhood Center with respect to promoting slash requiring year-round housing, >> right? >> Year-round occupancy, right? >> Um restricting short-term rentals. um
much there's an opportunity under the seasonal designation for both and to offer a preference um for um well the various things that are provided as acceptable and that furthers the interest in yearround housing because
they would be to um to year- round residents. So all of that would seem to me to um explain to the public why those provisions are there. um and would be um a way to strengthen um what was always
felt to be sketchy or not clear with respect to what could be approved by the state >> uh until the seasonal community law was passed. uh and what's in there does seem to strengthen allow us to strengthen and
certainly allow us to explain to the public um that what's in there is uh in accordance with the seasonal designation and providing preference and so on. So, at any rate, I'm I am hoping that we can come up with some revisions as a result
of the requirements in the seasonal designation law, but get them um at least concurrent with other uh zoning changes that are required by that >> such that as much of the zoning that is
required for the seasonal um communities law um u um as much of the zoning including West Chatam Neighborhood Center is all done at the same time. >> Right. But that would prop that would make it more likely that we will get buy
in by the towns if it's part of a whole package if as opposed to >> just the West Chatam Neighborhood Center standalone. >> But but these these are going to be separate articles. We're not there's there's not going to be a single article that deals with seasonal communities, WestJam Neighborhood Center, ADU. These
are each going to be separate articles. >> No, I understand that. But if they are, you know, if they're five, four, three, two, however many articles there are, right? If they are essentially proposed at the same town meeting and can be uh
someone someone or some bodies would be able to create the overall vision of, you know, what is happening here to the zoning. >> That to me is a a preferable way to get approval to the West Chadam Neighborhood Center than trying to just have it standalone. and the only zoning article
that has anything to do with um the you know density and and preference and restricting uh short-term rentals and so on. >> Well, as uh we all saw at the uh town meeting, you have five minutes. That's
it. I I don't think the communication is going to be at town meeting floor. I think we have to either have it as part of ourformational sessions at our board meetings here. um sending a sign as an agenda item or has a separate meeting of
uh anformational meeting to the community on um I think those are our two avenues if we want to get any one of these things whether it's seasonal communities the uh ADU the West Mainwood center I think those are going
to be our communication mechanisms between now and Mattown meeting okay uh any other comments or questions by board members Do I have a motion to adjourn? No, not yet. >> Can I bring up one more y >> thing that we uh talked about a little
bit on the uh small house lots? >> Oh, sure. >> So, if you had a 1acre lot and you could divide it into six pieces and make that a small subdivision for small houses. >> Yeah.
>> That would be uh one way to uh make small lots. but adhere to setbacks. >> Yep. >> And uh like a small community. >> Yep. >> That would be one way to do it instead of having just single individual lots.
>> Right. >> Motion to journ. >> Okay. >> All right. Do I have a second? >> All right. A roll call vote. Uh Warren, >> approve. >> Um Bob, >> approve. >> Frank, >> approve. >> Bob, >> approve. >> And Art Sprew, I approve. And the time
is uh 5 uh 559.