Uh, good evening. My name is Artspur. I'm chair of the planning board. This is the Town of Cadam Planning Board hybrid meeting on April 27th, 2026. It's 5:00 PM. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly
hereafter for schedule and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, including the use of AI note-taking apps, please notify the chair. I don't see any notice notifications.
Pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28th, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of acts of 2025 extending certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law
general law chapter 3A section 20 until June 30th 2027. This meeting of the channel, >> this meeting of the channel planning board is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public
can adequately access proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 508-9454410 conference ID 960107249
hashtag or join the meeting online via Microsoft's teams through the link in the posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simalcast on Chattam TV Xfinity channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be
able to provide real time access. We will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. I'll begin with a roll call vote. Warren Jane, >> present. >> Uh Charlene Greenhol, >> here. >> Frank Shear, >> present. >> Bob Dubis,
>> present. Uh >> Katherine Hern >> present. and uh Arts Brew present and I think Bob Worsher is absent tonight. Uh we'll begin with the minutes of uh April 13, 2026. Do I have any comments or
edits to this? >> I had one minor one which I already uh let Annie know about. It's on page two under the request for comments and it is the very last sentence, the second to last um line in that first
paragraph. The word instead is used there twice. >> Oh, okay. >> So, I suggested that she remove the first one. >> First one. Okay. Any other come? Okay. Do I have a motion to approve? >> Uh, with that change, I move that we approve the meeting minutes of April 14,
2026. >> All right. And a second. >> I'll second that. >> All right. We'll do a roll call vote. Warren Chain, >> I abstain. I was absent. >> Okay. Charlene Greenhall. >> Yes. >> Frank Shear. >> Warren, thank you. I abstain as well. Okay. Uh Bob Dubis,
>> I guess I better approve, huh? >> Yes. Uh Katherine Hburn. >> Yeah. Yes, I approve. >> And Arts Brew, I approve. Um next, um on the agenda is some site
plan review. To begin with is 19 93 Stony Hill Road. This is the Center for Active Living. Uh do I have someone who could present on behalf of the applicant? Uh and uh if you uh could introduce
yourself. Good evening. My name is Kurt Raber. Uh I am principal and partner at the firm Catalyst Architecture and Interiors in Yarmouthport. and we're pleased to be the architects um leading the design
team uh for the Sefell project. Um I would note that of course on our project team, Terry um and Leah are an important part. Rick Pomeroy from Pomroy Associates is our project manager. He's in attendance virtually. Um Madison from
my office is also listening. and um uh Taria uh Mcgrael from Tyen Bond will be helping me in the presentation remotely as well when we get to the civil plans if you will. Um and maybe Ann could you
launch the slides. Um so this is the uh cover page of the civil set. Um the next plan um shows um the general site plan uh or the existing conditions plan. And here I'll
just talk a little bit about the um the charge that we were given. U of course this shaded in the beige is the existing um footprint uh of the building and we proposed several additions. One
in the front sort of where that portico and existing ramp are. The other is to the plan left or west um which adds about 8 and 1 half 9 ft to the existing dining room on the first floor and storage space in the basement below it.
To the northwest corner or top left corner of the existing building where there's an existing elevated deck and a fire egress stair that's also exposed to aged um pressuretreated wood. That whole structure will come down to make way for
an addition there that is three stories that includes or en encloses uh most importantly a three-story fire stair that links all three stories of the building and provides proper egress um from the second floor as well. Um
around the backside we're going to have a small uh leanto um portico and um then generally we're we're proposing um a massive redo of the parking lot
specifically on the right side. Currently there's a really broad driveway that curb cut out into the public way. Um, and we're proposed to narrow that and move that over a bit so that we have a more rectal linear parking lot which is going to be easier
for people to drive into and negotiate into the parking spaces. And you can see that the existing parking lot has sort of a serpent, you know, a curved shape and it actually leaves the town's parcel and and goes over into the abuing uh
condominium associations property. important part of this project was meeting with the group um and their representative over there several times during the design process and listening to what what they would like to see. Um and
um there are spaces that are deed to the association on the town's parcel. That was another important factor that we had to cope with. But as you'll see um in the next slide um we've we're rebuilding some parking spaces um on their parcel.
Oh yeah, this this shows the existing paving. Um and uh this is the proposed plan. So at the top of the page there's a shaded area and that's reconfiguring some existing paved area and reorienting some parking spaces with a handicap
space and an access aisle. Um, and we propose a stockade f or a split rail fence and some plantings along the property line between the town and the abutters. The abutters property comes
out to the street. It's a pork chop uh shaped lot with a narrow driveway uh or narrow parcel uh edge of the parcel that comes out with their access driveway. And in between their driveway today and the parking lot at the Sefell is sort of
a no man's land of grass which has become overflow parking just because of the number of users at the sefell. So what we're proposing is a a cleaner more rectal linear parking lot. There is a
double row of parking and the the uh as the the parking that's on the far right side of the project um is on the town's parcel, but it it immediately abuts the property line. Those parking spaces will be accessed from the neighbor's
driveway. And what we've decided is those first uh what 12 spaces on that side will be occupied first as staff arrives and visitors will use the main driveway and then overflow into the
driveway on the left side. The left side parking lot is actually going to get narrower. It's much broader than it needs to be today. So we're going to move the right edge of the left parking lot towards the um the west. And that way we have a little bit of planting
area and slope to resolve the grades on that side as we expand the building. Um in the front of the building we propose a walkway from the ramp on the west edge all the way around to the far corner of
the parking lot and across the whole frontage in the loop drop off driveway. We proposed to build that flush so that there's no steps. What we kept hearing is like, can we remove obstacles um for guests and visitors? Um and the
same thing will happen as the on the sidewalk that extends vertically on the page to the left side of the right parking lot. Um and within this parking lot today, there's a lot of existing utilities that serve not only the Sefell building, but
carry on through to the Abutter. So, the overhead power that comes onto the town's parcel, and there's a pole just to the uh top right of our building, right near that ramp that's shaded, cross-hatched, kind of dark. There's an existing pole there, but the power
carries on to a second pole back on the Abutter's property. The underground gas and water services come through the town's parcel to get to the Abutter in the back. All this exists with a Deda transaction. There is no easement yet.
uh part of the project and and town meeting will take up the transfer of some monies from free cash to cover a small shortfall. But there is a second article um which uh requires a vote um at town meeting and then at the election
a couple days later um to uh um ratify an easement which town council is working on to kind of resolve this legally for the first time. Um, and that'll have a cross access easement. It'll mention the drainage and the
utilities that are shared across uh both parcels. Um, I would even say that, um, it include drainage because there's a catch basin in the Butters property that it flows back to a leech pit on the town's parcel and we propose to leave that condition um, and then improve
that. Um, in the front of the building and a little bit on the left side where we have area that's disturbed, we're going to landscape it. And I believe part of our submission was the landscape plan which we have a specimen tree um
bunch of eroded um hydrangeas um I could see we're going there now. Yeah, thank you. Um and so all of our planting uh is is included. Uh just to the north of our building, there's a
couple of new spruces that the neighbors asked us to put in al um to kind of block the view of the back of the seafoul from their the last end unit there. Um and visually separate their two the two parking areas. Um
we propose a little island um which is in the far right row of parking extends vertically. The last three parking spaces in that top corner of the parking lot, they're they're identified as visitor spaces. Those are
going to be dedicated to visitors to the condominium association because currently they have six and a half or seven spaces that come over the line and are mentioned in the deed. Um, we were able to create four spaces on their
side, but we had to create three spaces and and replace their visitor parking area. So, as you get to the little tree island between our parking and their parking, there will be a sign that directs people at only parking for uh the condo association beyond this point.
If somebody gets to that point, they could certainly do a K turn there in those visitor spaces, come back out to the street and get to one of the other two parking lots. Um and
um the driveway in the front um in our current submission includes uh excavating up that main driveway to locate some septic components. I believe the the board has been made aware of a recent decision at
the health department that um has allowed us to uh move away from the design that's included here. and what we're proposing and we've we've got to work this out because we've we've bid the new septic system into the project and that's currently part of the bid.
However, with the with the uh board of health's recent decision, we have two leech pits that exist on the site and if we um slightly move the grease strap and the septic tank out of the way of the addition and repair a debox, they've
allowed us to use those two leech pits. um for a short term and that's five years when the sewer is scheduled to come from 28 from the east to the west. We looked at and it's been publicized and probably read about it but we looked
at a sewer connection to the west but it ended up being much more difficult in expensive than we thought and came to find out that the system really didn't have the capacity to take the flow. it was really always designed to go the
other way out to 28. Um so with that decision made, we approached the the board of health and um they were um uh nice to agree with that short-term allowance of the um two existing bleach
pits. We did look at the water usage. The water usage in this building is really low historically for the last three years. Even though use of the building has grown, the water is very low. So even if we were to double the use of the water with a 25% increase in
the square footage of the building, we believe the two leech pits will be adequate for the period, you know, the short-term period of five years. Um, with that, I think we'll probably turn
to uh Taria. Um, and Tara, would it be easier for you to share your slides and go through your slides from remotely or would you like us to advance the slides from here? >> Um, I could if I could share that would be great because I added a little bit of color to them.
>> Perfect. >> Okay. Um, well, thank you Kurt. You've covered most of the basis here as far as the civil site design goes. Um, I'm Tia Mcgrael with Ty Bond. I'm a senior project manager and civil engineer. Um so I I'll just quickly uh because I did
add some color to the plan to just um help highlight some of the improvements on the site. Um as Kurt had described um this is the site layout materials plan. And in yellow here I highlighted for you so that you could better see the spaces that we're recreating for the
neighboring um codaminium association. So these are the three visitor spaces and then these are the four that we are recreating on their parcel. Um this line right here that's in gray is the property line as Kurt had mentioned previously. So, the proposed benefit of
the new parking layout is that we are disconnecting this through access to the condominium association's um buildings. Um, and we're able to better improve and reconfigure the parking lot to add 23 new parking spaces in this area that
will be dedicated to use for the um CFAL. Um, so those improvements are going to be a great benefit to this facility. It get it improves um pedestrian safety because we are now limiting some of the vehicles passing through the parking lot. Um but also
through establishing um nice um accessible access corridors for pedestrians from the parking lot to the building. And as Kurt mentioned previously, um there's a few areas around the building here where there's access points where we did um pay special attention to making sure that we
had flush entries to minimize curb um curb, you know, having to step up on curbs, um and then also to ease the drop off. And so, uh this line right here along these parking, um accessible parking spaces, this is going to be a flush curb. Um we are proposing to have
ballards along the face of those parking spaces to um prevent any kind of vehicle access towards the sidewalk and the building. And then also along this face here, it's about 40 ft long. And so that's going to act as a drop off area
um for vehicles that um would like to drop off a patron to the CFAL. Um so those are two new improvements as far as access to the building go. So, we have 23 new parking spaces up in this redesigned parking lot. And then we have the new access points up in um the areas
around the building. Down on the lower parking lot, that's to the left-hand side of the building. We're proposing to add an additional parking space, but then we're also looking to add um an improved drop off area um down in this area of the back left-hand side of the
building um that allows patrons access from vans um to the lower level where there's going to be a daytime activity center. Um so the van drop off here will be mostly for seniors that are attending all day events at the center. And then in green I've highlighted for you um the
new dumpster enclosure area. Um so we have one added parking space over here, 23 new spaces over here. Um as Kurt mentioned, we are reducing the throat on this curb cut access. This should create more um order as vehicles are entering and exiting the site. And
then on this curb cut, um it's it's staying pretty much more or less the same in this area over here. Um I think overall those are the proposed improvements on the site parking and I so I'll touch on the drainage. Um so as
we increase parking areas we're going to have more impervious space to take care of uh runoff that's generated by it. So in blue what I've highlighted for you are the proposed um storm water management systems. Um we have a new catch basin going in in the center of the new parking lot. Um, we're going to
keep the existing catch basin on the condominium association's lot and that networks through to an existing um, pit that's located in this location and then that will also tie into a new subsurface leeching system um, that will be
installed with this project. Um, similarly over on the uh lower parking area to the left hand side of the building, we're proposing subsurface um, leeching pits for management of storm water. All of these systems are designed um to manage uh the 25-year storm, but
also will prevent any kind of off-site flooding in the 100red-year storm event. Um I think that's everything I wanted to touch on and of course I'm available for questions. Thank you. >> Okay. Um
Christine, if uh you'd like to summarize some of your points in your review comments. So, uh, we did not find anything in the files with regard to a previous site plan review. Um, which part of this I I guess you're probably not surprised on that. Um, I did have a
question in the um in the uh pre-application meeting that we had up at community development um about the possibility of the um shuttle um for the lower level, whether or not there was an option because otherwise you're going to
just have to pull the shuttle in and then back the shuttle up. Whether there was any thought given to bringing it around to the front somewhere or if that's not possible because of the layout. Currently, the senior day program runs two days a week and they meet in the main first floor level. Um,
however, after the renovations, the senior day program will grow to four days a week and it'll be mainly hosted in the lower level. So, we propose that the shuttle will pull into that little extended driveway that hooks around the and then when people disembark and the
shuttle is empty, it can back into the last cross-hatched parking space and basically kturn and and and slide back into a parking space or leave again to go pick up some other folks. So, we we we did look at the movement of the van
from that space. Um, and we think that works. We just there's just not enough room to create, you know, any other culde-sac or a proper T-shaped turnaround there and get the dumpster enclosure in. Um
so, uh and we didn't put the the trash on the other side because we were trying to keep that away from the neighbors um and maximize the parking there for for guests. So, um we think we came up with a solution that works for the van. And
of course, um, that with that crosshatch over that last parking spot right where Taria has the little cursor arrow, um, we think we've reserved enough space for that van to turn around and leave again. >> Okay, that's good. Um, thank you for looking into it. Um, the other things I
would say that the the planning board has a number of different issues. We did reach out to Tyen Bond today and to you for the the missing sheet that we had. We have that now, so we're all good there. Um the planning board uh has some conditions that they'll put forward as
they discuss um the missing pieces and other than that um we understand that the uh the easements will come about after a town meeting um which is something that would typically the planning board would want to see but we know in in this sense how it's going to go a little bit differently from the
normal procedure. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, so other comments and questions from the other board members. Uh, Warren, we begin with you. >> To what extent have all of the um
interested parties sign signed off on this plan at this point? You know, the board of Seal, the uh the users of SEFAL, the public in public hearings and so on, or are there major issues which just can't be
resolved because of the site? So the uh the plans have gone out to bid and we got a really favorable construct general construction uh or sub bid numbers and general construction bid numbers. Um and so the ask that was going to go to town
meeting was very significant. That's been reduced from a $1.8 million ask to a $200,000 ask from free cash. So the working group who's been reporting back to the select board um has uh kind of
helped refine the design over the last six months. Um so at this point we're ready to start construction. Um the one of the things that will happen temporarily is that the seal will move over to the community center starting in June. uh if the vote goes well u on the
11th um they'll move over there into a temporary trailer and then use the community center space for almost a year and we hope to be back into the building um at the end of June 27. >> Thank you Terry can add more and if it helps maybe I'll add too so as far as
sign off or again the process. So this has been if you followed the project at all it's been a long arc for for the project and again some of the realities like we were just talking about with the site the limitations you know in fact the u the drop off for the uh supportive day you know so those are some of the
trade-offs that have had to been made for the you know staying on this site so and again as the process Kurt mentioned so that had full involvement excuse me from uh both staff and the the council on aging board the building working group and and as Kurt mentioned the the
select board as well. So that that's was the process where everybody's been uh involved um the stakeholders in getting that process. So and I don't know if Leah wants to add anything more on that regarding the um the process or the >> So before we do that we should just say
this is Terry Wayland. I'm sure everybody knows that I say that projects and operations administrator and I don't know if you again if there's any other operational uh questions or comments Lee can speak shuttle >> the only other comment I had just when I looked at it was there's going to be a
lot more parking area which is great I assume there's going to be a lot more lighting on the site than there is now and we're always concerned and I'm not the expert on it I'll defer to Frank um but I'm hoping that the intensity of the light the direction of the light and the
number of lights can be both minimal minimalized and at the same time adequately securing safety for all of the uh participants. Um that and and the drainage to which I'm totally out of my you know it seems like you've got it
covered. So thank you. >> Kurt can speak to the lighting if you'd like. >> Yeah, I'll talk to the lighting and then maybe Leah could talk about what her board has seen and approved. Um the lighting is shown on this plan and um they're actually kind of bubbled uh in
dark and this is the generally the locations that our electrical engineer and the lighting manufacturers v um designer has helped us select and we were promised from the manufacturer a detailed phototric drawing last week. It
didn't arrive. We kept calling. Turns out my salesperson was on vacation with his children school vacation week last week and nothing happened and he handed it off but somebody dropped the ball. So we do owe that um to the town. We'll present that. Um but we've purposely
chosen a full um shielded fixture especially the one that's adjacent to the abutters that won't spill any light backwards onto the uh the Butters property. We're thinking 14 foot poles, 12 foot poles on a twoft concrete base. Um, and the other thing that the
butterers have asked for is asked for the lights to go off as soon as possible. Um, because the building is generally closed at 5:00 p.m. Maybe there will be days when events happen into the into the evening hours u but probably over by 8 or 9. So that the
butters asked if we could provide a time clock and we do pres intend to include a digital time clock which could be programmed or overridden for those once in a while um evening activities but
generally um they'll go on at dusk and turn off by 700 p.m. or whatever hours we set. Um the abutters seem to agree with seven um unless there's a function. certainly were understanding if there was a function. So there we proposed
seven lamp posts, three on the right side, two in the front driveway, two more on the west parking lot. Um and they're basically around the perimeter um in the front of the building right in between the sidewalk and the front ramp. We propose some low 3 and 1/2t tall
ballard lighting to to illuminate the walking surface of both the ramp and the sidewalk. Um the steps and the um rear uh ramp and the left side ramp are all going to be illuminated from light fixtures that are mounted on the face of
the building. And again, those can be time clock as well >> and those are reviewed by HBDC. >> Yes, all the lighting has been reviewed by the um historic. >> Thank you. No other comments. Thank you. Oh.
Leah. >> Oh, Leah. I guess Leah is your you have your hand up. >> I I just wanted to add to that that uh because the the nature of the population that we serve, our participants um don't
really like to drive in the dark. I think if we had evening, we do hope to have some evening programs like an an early dinner or something, but it would be I I would say the latest we would be there would be 700 p.m. Um, and that
would be only very occasionally, maybe maybe once every six months. Um, we would have an evening event. That's how how few and far between they have been. Um, so if there's, you know, if there's any concerns about that, I I can I can
put those to rest. >> Thank you. Um, Charlene, any comments, questions? >> Just kudos to you guys for getting this to work considering what you had for a site. Um, I think you've done a really
good job here and I have no comments. >> Okay, Frank. Um, I'm really happy that we're at this stage right now given what the town has gone through. Um, just a minor point I suppose on on the lighting. Um, we don't have a lighting plan, but I guess you
articulated part of that lighting plan. Um, >> we will we intend to submit one um that in, you know, shows basically, you know, less than uh uh 0.1 foot candles spilling over onto the Abutter's property. Um, and we should have that
point by point um, thing. I was promised that I might get it before five o'clock today. I checked just before coming in this room and then I didn't get it. Um, >> so Christine, how do we handle that for >> Well, you can handle it a couple of different ways. You could have Art do it administratively. You know, we could
bring it all to you at a subsequent meeting, but I that would be after town meetings, so I prefer not to do that. >> If you're willing to do that. >> Oh, yes. Um, and all I would say is is that we don't like the real high numbers for uh any foot candles. You know, I'd like it down at the highest level is
around in in the five, six foot candle range. All right. The spillover, as you're saying, uh, to the adjacent properties, what you mentioned, certainly is adequate. >> Yeah. >> Um, and we're we're making an effort now to steer away from white commercial
lighting. Um, so did you have any thought of what the Kelvin level would would be for the lights? >> Um, that's all the uh new LED parking lot lighting is fully adjustable and we could specify, you know, 3,000 or 3500. Um, and definitely want to stay away
from that 45 or 6,000 or which is really harsh, >> right? We we try to target either the 2700 or 3,000. Yeah, >> we could definitely agree to be under, you know, 3,000 or less. >> Yeah, if if we could put that undertaking in the lighting plan, that
would fantastic. Okay, thank you. >> Yeah, if that could be a condition and we can roll. >> So, we have a standard condition typically that they put in. So, we'll put in the specific. >> You could just add that standard. >> Okay. >> Um Bob, >> nice. >> Well, of all the things to
Bob, >> hi there. Yeah, I know. I know. So, so you guys have done a pretty good job in in my book in uh resurrecting this thing. And uh but yeah, I I'm for the variable lights because the older you
get, the more you need a little more light. None of these spring chickens over here, they can walk around in the dark. I have to have a little more lighting. So, but I would say a variable within reason and and as you find as you find out what the key
>> Yeah. light is then you can lock it in. At least I think that would be >> I think that have the flexibility to do that makes a lot of sense until you physically see where the dark spots are and where the light spots are and stuff.
I'm sure that that uh uh you you'll do you'll you'll wire it in so it'll >> balance. Yeah. One piece might be a little lighter, one piece a little darker, what whatever. And you should have in case of a a storm or something like that, you might even want one that
will light up the place uh to help people get out, you know, and so if it's if it's variable, I think that would be the best part. >> Okay. But I I think we're talking about intensity, not color. >> No, no, no, no. I'm not >> Right. Good.
>> intensity. I mean, if it's a foggy night or something, they might need a little more light or something like that. But they'll they'll if it's adjustable, they'll find the sweet spot somewhere. >> You can imagine the neighbors if all of a sudden it lights up like >> Tommy Trick is Trip is the neighbor
across. He can barely see now. And the guys in in the condos the guys in the condos out back can't really see too much. And then there's a uh uh the the landscaper to the to the left of them. And uh I don't think they're there that
much. I'm sure they have an apartment there, but I really don't see too much in the way uh uh for it, but but I understand what they're saying and I just think a variable might be a better idea than than a permanent. >> Well, we'll we'll take a look at it when >> Yeah. And again, we'll we'll adapt to
whatever we need to do. >> Cath Katherine, any comments or questions of the applicant? Um, I just also want to say along with Charlene that I think you've done a really great job with a difficult site
and also just a project that has been um had a lot of ups and downs in our town. I think what you've produced is very well thought through and well organized um and it looks good. I don't really have any comments. I'm just wondering
could you be so kind as to the double row of parking on the right of the drawing that's still on the screen. Can you just show me how cars enter and exit both rows? >> Well, the um this is Kurt Raber, the
architect. Um the parking that is adjacent to the property line is accessed from the right where the the arrow is. That's the neighbor's driveway. So they would come in the neighbor's driveway with their permission of course and park in those first 10 spaces. The yellow spaces
highlighted are dedicated to the abutter. Um and we what uh we've talked about as as the working group is that in the morning as the building is occupied and staff arrives first, we'd ask them to populate those parking spaces so that
those fill up first, leaving the clo spaces that are closer to the building >> for guests. um and and and seniors uh you know attending programming in the building. >> Great. Okay. Great. Great. Um other than that, I just think you've done a great
job and it's nice to see this project finally moving on to completion. So, thank you. >> Okay. I just have a a couple of of comments um
on the um west parking lot. Um, I I think your engineer did an excellent job. There is at the north side of that parking lot, there's a significant drop off there. They called out for a uh timber rail fence uh railing. That's great. I'd like to see safety issues
like that. Whenever you get a steep slope, um like the uh engineer to provide a soil erosion and sedimentation control plan, we didn't see anything in the set. So like to have that as part of your um uh information that you provide
to the board. Uh you talked about cross easements. Um I think that the series of cross easements that you would refer to for utilities and that um probably need a cross easement on the access of their uh drive to it. And it seems like this
is working out for both parties. So I'm I'm sure that's all going to happen. Um, and I think the other thing we're looking for is um the permitting the permitting set of plans. Uh, we we need a PE stamp on those. There was nothing
uh submitted as part of the set. So, >> yeah, the original submission um was an unstamped set. We didn't then uh attached um I believe a set that had the stamps on seven of the eight sheets. >> Okay. >> We owe you that last sheet stamp. Um, but
>> so especially if we can see it on the asbuilt plans that go in the record, that's that's more important than anything. And Annie, if you want to just show the elevation so everybody can see that, that would be fabulous. Okay. So, this is the uh Oh, if I could um this is a a computer aided uh
rendering of the front of the building. It just last week this was amended with a little help from AI and put the hydrangeas and everything everything in it and uh we'll submit that as well. Um, but the blue uh in the center is that addition in the front of the building
where the porch and existing ramp are. It has a little portico a couple steps up and then the ramp comes from the parking on the right behind the flag pole on the second floor. That's a new dormer um that adds space to the second floor. Similarly, the right-hand dormer
on the left wing is also new because if you're familiar with that room upstairs, you would kind of walk halfway across the room and hit your forehead on the ceiling. >> I've been there. Um uh and uh there's some miscellaneous fence that shows up around the um the base of the left wing
of the building. Um one of the parts of the project is that we're going to saw cut the foundation and remove the little 15in by 30in windows and add 36 by um 40in high windows into the basement for more light and they could actually be operable. So a little bit of natural
ventilation as well. Um so that happens at five different basement windows. Um the little kind of lean to on the right on the sorry the far left side is the expansion of the dining room. Um the entire building has got a brand new skin of uh cement um based cloudboards and
shingles. Um PVC trim which will be painted including all the corner boards and columns and uh running trim. Um new gutters, new roof. Uh everything will be kind of brand new and as durable and maintenancefree as we can make it. And
the roof's not going to be white. Okay. >> So, on on the project page, you can find that just have to be on the uh submission set, but it's not not going to be white. It'll be a dark dark roof. And if you want to look at that on the on the town p the project page, there's a rendering that has the uh correct
color for the >> roof. I think maybe attached to this was the two pages of building elevations. Um maybe Yeah, they don't really need >> Okay. All right. They might not have been in this full in this.
>> Okay. I I think we're good though. So, um thank you. Any more comments or questions from board members? Okay. With that, we'll begin with a motion to um public. >> Oh, sorry about that. Uh any comments or questions from the public? Uh I don't
see any hands raised online. Nothing. Okay, good. Then do I have a motion to approve? >> Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the site plan review application with conditions which I will go through um
for the pro uh for the proposal for the center for active living located 93 Stony Hill Road uh because the application meets the necessary requirements and criteria for approval pursuant to the protective zoning bylaw
with the following conditions. One, the set of plans as outlined in the staff report. Two, certification by licensed professional that all work is completed in compliance with the approved plan is required prior to issuance of the certificate of use
and occupancy by the building commissioner. Three, all exterior lighting shall be downcasting, shall not exceed 3,000 Kelvin, and shall be designed to not illuminate areas off the property. And a copy of said lighting
plan shall be submitted to the planning board for a properly stamped asbuilt plan is required to be submitted to the planning office for inclus inclusion in the property file. >> Okay. Do I have a second?
>> I'll second that. >> Okay. I'll do a roll call vote. Warren, >> approve. Charlene, >> approve. >> Frank, >> approve. Uh Bob, >> approve. Um, Katherine >> approve >> and Arts Brew I approve.
>> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Next we have a site plan review for 655 Main Street. Do I have uh Mrs. Chase Bank? Do I have
an EP applicant? So, I would like to just um tell you before we start this one that I did find in the files um after looking again there was a site plan review um piece that was done in 19
86 no 8 I'm sorry 83 1983 July of 1983 so we had a we had a um existing conditions plan to look at for a couple of different things. >> Okay. And if you could introduce yourself please. >> Sure thing. Uh good afternoon or evening
at this point. My name is Giovanni Caesar. I'm with Stonefield Engineering. We're located at 120 Washington Street, Salem, Massachusetts, and we're here on behalf of JP Morgan Chase Bank um to propose the adaptive reuse of the property located at 655 Main Street. Um as a bit of site history, this property
is has historically operated as a Rockland Trust and uh they have since relocated, so it's currently vacant. Um as some of the locals know, there's no such thing as a vacant parking lot during the summer. So during our due diligence review, we noted that there were a lot of unauthorized vehicles kind
of utilizing that parking area um during, you know, various hours of the day. Um so that kind of drove a lot of the site design and some of the improvements that we're we were making. Um as a bit of kind of comprehensive history on the project, we are within the
GB1 general business district and as part of that um we also fall within the historical business district. So, this application will go before the HBDC next Wednesday. Um, we also have a sitewalk scheduled for next Tuesday to kind of review the findings. Our original uh
hearing was moved out due to uh a lack of quorum. And then we were here last week uh to meet with the zoning board. And uh a large part of why that meeting went so smoothly was because the planning board kind of issued a letter authorizing or recommending the uh
approval of a formula special permit for the formula business establishment. So thank you for that. Um if we can jump to C2, the existing conditions plan just so we can kind of take a look um at the
site. Uh it's a building with a footprint of just under 3500 square feet, single story with a basement and angled parking all throughout. Um during our initial due diligence reviews, we kind of walked the site, took a look at some of the different civil and
architectural issues um that we noted and some of the key factors was um there were some back pitch rating uh which led to some water intrusion within the basement of the unit. So, we're kind of proposing to kind of redevelop the building envelope and the curbing around to kind of enhance the drainage uh
throughout the site and make sure that the building's kind of um geared up for, you know, uh the rainy season. Um if we want to jump to C4, the site plan to touch on some of the site improvements as well.
Um so, as you kind of see, we're looking to maintain a lot of the characteristics of the site. Um the most notable change from a civil perspective will probably be um some of the ADA improvements that we're looking to kind of modify. So during our due diligence study, we noted
that the site was not up to federal ADA compliance as it did exceed uh the allowable slope. So as part of that, we um improved the ADA parking area at the top corner of Stage Harbor and Main Street within the site. And we're looking to place a reinforced concrete pad there so that it kind of stands the
test of time. Um, and along with that, we're looking to introduce um a crosswalk connection across that drive drive drive aisle up to the base of the handicap brim. And we're looking to reconstruct that as well with new handrails and uh um kind of leading up
to the main entrance there. So, really that's um you know, arguably the most significant change here from a site design perspective. We're looking to change the angled parking into head-on parking just a a little easier to kind of circulate. um for cars entering
through Stage Harbor Road. We're looking to maintain both access points from Stage Harbor and Main Street. Um and then we're also looking to introduce some pavement striping throughout the site to again help with that vehicular and pedestrian circulation all throughout. We're looking to reconstruct
some of the canopies over the building. Uh this site does have or did have an active drive-through ATM um on the eastern side there. Um, and we're looking to kind of shrink that canopy over um to what we call a map
canopy um with a tellerless kind of ATM system. So, you'll be able to drive up, kind of conduct your business as necessary, and then peel it right off onto Main Street and, you know, go about your day. Um, we're also looking to introduce some area in the back
dedicated for a rear egress as well as some mechanical equipment that those are those two. Uh, the pad down there as well. Oh, sorry, forgot I had a pointer. Um, this mechanical equipment uh area right there and then the rear egress
that's being introduced here uh along with some stairs over and then we do have a trash enclosure kind of screened um that sits on a reinforced concrete pad as well. So, um if we can jump to the lighting plan um
sheets Perfect. So, I just wanted to kind of highlight some of the design requirements here that drove the light factors that you see on the screen here. Um, as a bank, they do have we do have security requirements that we have to adhere to to ensure um adequate safety
for our patrons. And, um, as part of that, we had to kind of be strategic with the locations that we did place um, our site lighting. uh as it's currently speced, we have, I believe, three polemounted area lights um throughout the parking area and supplemental
building lighting um proposed. And as you can see, we kind of have um fixtures ranging from, you know, 4ft candles to kind of 6ft candles, 7 foot candles throughout this parking area, which I think is consistent with some of the values I heard um during the last application. And the tricky part here is
that because of the geometry and the location of the building, it was difficult to meet the security requirements within the drive aisle specifically. Um, as kind of a highle overview, it's really we need a minimum of two foot candles within a 50ft radius
um of 24-hour accessible ATM. So, we do have a 24-hour vestibule at the main entrance and then that um drive-thru ATM can also be accessed 24 hours. So that was the real one of the key drivers. Uh we also need to meet a 10-ft candle
requirement within a 5ft radius. So that's why you may see some elevated levels um throughout a portion of the site. But we worked uh to spec um dark sky compliant fixtures shielded and kind of oriented them so they're really prioritizing the illumination of the
core of the site and the even distribution throughout. Um the lights are currently specked at 4,000 Kelvin, but we have no issue um reducing that to 3,000 Kelvin. Um kind of in line with town standards here. Um and then if we just wanted to quickly jump to the
landscape plan, believe it's C8. Bingo. Um, so kind of the location of this site is kind of it's the first thing you see when you come off the Rotary from 28 kind of for patrons looking to access um, downtown Chadam.
So, as part of that, we're looking to really overhaul the landscaping on site. Um, in its current condition, there's a lot of overgrowth and kind of dead vegetation throughout the site. So, we're looking to get in there, clean that up, uh, in line with Chase's standards, and we've provided a detailed, um, kind of plant schedule off
to the side there, as well as a maintenance schedule. so that the bank staff is very aware of um what they need to do to make sure that the site meets uh the landscaping requirements for the team. So happy to kind of jump in and kind of clarify any questions that the
board may have or any operational um clarifications as well. >> Okay. Um we can why don't you Christine summarize your um your review memo and then I have one comment to start and then we'll move on to the rest of the
board members. >> Okay. As I said um there was a site plan um review done in 1983. So we did find um a number of the down spouts and some of the other things we were looking at. Um we were initially going to have a question about the lighting. Um, I'm
glad that you explained the the security requirements for the ATM and that you're willing to go down in the the Calvin's to the 3,000. I think >> that's that seems reasonable. Um, we had uh
um I know that Art is going to touch upon the um infiltration things. Um we're going to ask about a moni a monitoring well. Um, I would say those are the biggest Oh, the only other thing that we were looking at, we do have something with regard to the um traffic signage
>> um back out onto Main Street. So, we're going to ask a question for that. And then um >> uh I would say to everybody that the um the ZBA held off making a decision until such time as they hear back from the planning board. So, >> okay,
>> they like to well they like to go at the end of the proce at the end of the procedures. So, um, we will be giving them another letter >> going forward after this. >> Sound good? >> Okay. >> Okay. I I'll just begin by talking about
some of the your storm water issues. Um, you're asking for a waiver on that. And, uh, understandable. But, uh, I would just like to review one point that I think uh, you if you uh, hear me out,
you hopefully you'll concur with it. Um there is one catch basin on the site. Okay. And that catch basin is predominantly catching the runoff from the um drive-thru. And it based on the
plan from 1983. It indicates the downspouts from the building are connected and they go to that U catch basin. So I'm assuming that's an infiltrating catch basin there. It would be good if you could confirm that there's 11 downspouts on that building
there. Two of them are not um one of them that's uh by the canopy by the drive-thru. >> Mhm. >> Is actually pointing to the adjacent property rather than onto your property that needs to be redirected. There's one that is broken on the east side that
probably just needs to be reconnected. Uh, I'd note on your drawings there, your civil drawings, that you're looking to TV inspect that line, that 4 in CP CMP. >> That pipe's been on the ground for some years. CMPS have a tendency to
deteriorate and disappear. Um, it if you see in your TV camera that that's gone, you may want to um dig up and replace that. I recommend something bigger than a 4 inch CMP, though. >> Makes sense.
The the other part is the existing parking lot on the on the west side. Um the existing condition the way it functions to uh right now is it flows
from where the building is down toward Stage Harbor Road toward the parking spaces. It runs then south and the discharge is right out the the access driveway on Stage Harbor Road. So, not
much of it getting into that catch basin there. >> Um, you're proposing to put an island there just before the exit. >> That's fine. I would recommend what you do is at that last uh southern parking space there, put an infiltration basin
on there to uh capture that because otherwise it's just going to be a flooded uh flooded spot on there. Um I don't think there's a lot of flow that's going to be happening there. I checked some of my numbers uh just for myself. Um, but I would like uh to have your
civil engineer identify the appropriate size that you would go there on that. But that's something that we can just condition as part of the um uh um conditions that we'll put in. Uh that's all I wanted to touch on right now. I
defer rest of my comments after the other board members. Um let's begin with Katherine. Uh Katherine, do you have any comments or questions of the applicant? Oh, thank you, Art. Um, can you hear me? All right. >> Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah. Um, I think I like what you've done. I think you've improved the parking area on the west side. Um, I think Art is addressing the concerns about um the drainage and the slope of the site. Um, I just have a question and
forgive me for not checking this. um a lot of our downtown area and in the that town parking lot area that's just behind you is actually in the flood plane >> and you did mention that you've had flooding inside the building. So maybe
Christine or Art, do you know >> uh this might be elevated above the flood plane, but is it sitting in the flood plane area? Um like some of the you know what I'm talking about the parking lot that's down below. >> Yeah. Uh I don't think so because it's
at elevation 20 22 24. So I don't I don't believe this particular there are other buildings which are in the downtown area that are much lower than this that run into that. The one that we had last meeting actually was >> a good 10 12 feet lower than this site.
>> Okay. Okay. I just wanted to ask because across the way I know some years ago St. Christopher's Church had a lot of flooding issues inside the building due to the fact that, you know, the church is actually sitting in the flood plane,
but it's good that you're going to address the flooding that you you're seeing um in your basement. Could you just show me with your pointer um the pathway for the drive-thru ATM? A
car coming through? >> Sure. They would would they do they have to enter from Stage Harbor Road? >> Sure. So, we're looking at Mhm. >> I think they do now, but please just show me. >> Yeah, sure thing. So, we're looking to maintain the access points. Um, if you were to come from Stage Harbor Road, you
would enter here and kind of feather right into the driveway uh along the side of the building right here, conduct your business at the reinforced concrete pad um and ATM, and then eress right beyond here onto Main Street. And then if you were to come from Main Street, say you were coming from the Rotary
right here, uh you would just circulate the site kind of past the 88 parking area, um and then work your way down, um and then maneuver uh a lefthand turn within into the drive-through lane and then eress the same way.
>> Okay, great. So, they're both going counterclockwise, correct? >> Correct. >> Yes. Yes. Okay, great. And that's I think that's basically how it is now. >> So um other than that I I mean I was concerned about the lighting both about
the safety issues from the security perspective as well as you know the effects on the you know abutterss or there's no abutters but neighbors and it I think you've addressed both of those concerns uh very well. So, um I think
we've made an improvement in the uh parking and the traffic flow in the site. I don't really have any other uh comments. >> Uh thank you, Katherine. Um Bob Dubis will we'll begin with you now on this side. Yep.
Well, I only have Oh, yeah. >> I only have one one little uh tidbit that that kind of bothers me is that uh when you enter from Main Street, that's a oneway coming down, I believe, isn't it? >> Correct. >> Okay. And then you exit onto Stage
Harbor. So, now the garbage truck is going to enter from Stage Harbor and then have to go maneuver back up and around. Or if you turn that 90 degrees counterclockwise, he could come in from Main Street and then back right into the uh garbage
disposal and then take off down stage. Hav Road would be a little easier, I believe. But you guys are the engineer. I'm only the dirt digger. >> Okay. Uh Frank, any comments, questions? >> Oh, no. All set. >> You don't have any comments or qu on the
lighting? Well, I think I think they've been addressed. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, Charlene, >> actually Bob picked my only concern on this was the dumpster. >> Yeah, >> that if it was pivoted 90 degrees, I
think it would work. Actually, 40. Yeah. 90 degrees. Y I think it would function better. >> Better. Yeah. Um, as far as the condition for the storm water, I usually j I that right over my head. So, if if >> Yeah,
>> came up with language for that, that would be great. If if not, you need to jot something quickly. >> I'm just looking for uh just a a standard catch basin. It's an infiltrating catch basin, stone around it. That's probably going to be more
than adequate to deal with this. Uh it the island is the is the issue that observes the flow. >> 10 words or less condition that you want to see. >> All right, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yeah. >> Go ahead, Bob. >> I'm sorry I didn't mention that because you had already mentioned it, but I have
a concern about putting a catch basin there. A leeching catch basin. >> Oh, is that right? >> Well, that's what they call it. >> Mhm. What What would you do then? Um because if you don't put a catch if you don't put a catch basin where that island is there just on the north side of that island. >> That's what they call a leeching catch
basin. >> Okay. Leeching catch bas one structure with stone around it. Okay. >> Otherwise it's a just a regular catch bas. >> Okay. So it's a leeching catch basin. >> So we're installing a leeching catch basin in the new island adjacent to the >> Yeah, I think it's parking spot 11.
>> Arbor. I think it's parking spot 11. Yeah. >> I'm glad I mentioned that then. Okay. Uh Warren, >> I have no comments. I'm very much in favor of this proposal.
>> Okay. Just a couple other things. Um uh some of the lighting foot candles though is very intense. I think that I'd like your group to revisit that. I mean, you have a minimum that you look for security at 10, but you have something
in the 20s around there. And I can understand on the the drive-thru that makes sense there, but you also some of that's trickling over onto the other side. So, you might want to just revisit that. Um, the other thing is um what is
the what is the illumination during the nighttime when the when the bank is closed? I mean, is there any reduction? Is there any way that that can be managed? There is residential across the street at Stage Harbor Road.
So, uh, I don't know if we want, um, lighting on 24 hours a day associated with this. >> Is there any kind of timer or anything you have for that? >> I don't believe there's a timer aspect with it because again, the ATM, vestibule, and the drive-thru are
accessible 24 hours a day. So, we want that illumination uh, for primarily a security perspective there. Um, >> well, you mentioned that those are very low foot candles, though, only two uh, two foot candles, which is fine. I mean, that's not going to be bothersome to anybody, >> but
>> yeah. Yeah. If you're looking at the drive-thru lane though, I think the challenge is uh the geometry of the lot doesn't allow for a polemounted area light in that location. And I see >> difficult to see on the plans, but there's a retaining wall to the right
>> on the right side of that drive-thru lane. So, we had to supplement it with the building mounted lighting on that side and building mounted lighting. Um, we don't have as much flexibility with the mounting heights. um and okay >> subsequently the throw. So we had uh certain areas that had higher
illumination >> that that's true. Uh that side is uh not as much of a an issue from the standpoint of the budding residential. So okay um you have um two electrical feeds to the building today. One is
overhead that's on south side of the building with a meter on it. There's a second one that is underground which goes in the um uh in the east at I guess where that uh indentation is uh in the bu in your
building there >> and there's a meter there too. Is there a reason? Are you going to have two meters or just one meter? Do you have tenants that are going to be in the building that you would have a second meter for? >> I believe it's just one meter. Um,
>> no. There's there's two there. >> You have two drops. >> Oh, junction box. Uh, >> well, one's overhead with a meter in the rear and in the rear at the southern part of the building and a second one which is underground feed goes to a
second meter >> which is on the uh west side of the building in the middle. Take a look at that. Okay. I'm expecting you only need one electrical service and and I think our preference would be to go with an underground the underground
feed instead of an overhead feed. >> When you said when you say the west side of the building um within the building envelope are you talking about the pole box near the the pole near um >> if you take a look at your existing condition plan >> sheet C2 Annie
Oh, I see. Yeah, that's being relocated. So, we're we're only going to have one meter. >> That's what I thought. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think our preference is to go with the underground feed and and deactivate the overhead and uh feed to the to the barrier. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. We've engaged with the
utility, the electric provider and that's uh the connection that they prefer as well. So that's >> yeah what's going to be installed. >> So uh on the traffic circulation um I understand the way you're setting this up that you could you can go back
to the site plan though um Annie. Okay, that's good. So you can enter either from Main Street or from Stage Harbor Road. uh when they go from Stage Harbor Road, they can go to the drive-thru or they can turn left and they could park in the parking lot. Correct. >> Correct.
>> All right. So, we need a sign out by the main street entrance that says that this is entrance only. No exit. >> There is a sign. >> I wasn't sure. I didn't Was there one on the plans? >> Difficult to see. >> Okay. >> Right here.
>> Right there. Okay. Great. >> That's all I have. What? Exiting the um ATM drive. >> Yep. >> Does it still is it still going to say right turn only? >> That would be a preference, too, especially during the heavy months of
>> believe zoned out. >> No, that makes a lot of sense, too. Good. >> You did mention that already in your speech. >> Okay, perfect. >> Okay, great. But there but I think >> I think there should be I think there should be a sign that says right turn only the right I'm not sure if there was
always >> Okay, great. >> Uh that's all I had. Let's see. Do I have any other comments from the board members? No. Any comments from the public? >> Oh, >> she started.
>> No, she started. >> Katherine started. Yeah. What are you trying >> are you trying to pull things over on me here? >> I got to shake it up a little bit. Um, no more comments. >> Clarity. I already spoke. >> Okay. And >> I already spoke. >> Would I be able to ask a question on the
trash enclosure orientation comment that came up earlier? >> Yep. >> I think the intent was for the facilities team to ensure that a trash truck was entering through Main Street, hit that at the current orientation, and then leave through Stage Harbor Road. Um I think the issue with coming from State
Harbor Road um hitting the rotated uh orientation like that 90 degree um rotation that you spoke of, they would have to back up and use the drive-through egress which um traditionally Chase doesn't want. So >> again, how are they going to back if
they come in Main Street? How are they going to back into the >> front loing? Oh, it's frontload. >> Oh, it's front loading. Never mind. >> My mistake. No, you can't. >> It solves that issue. >> Okay. >> Well, that's good to know because most of the it's 50/50 around here. >> That's right. So, uh Gotcha.
>> But that's at least you have the answer, right? >> And we have the questions. >> Okay. Do do I have a motion to approve? >> Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the site plan review application
um for the proposal for Chase Bank Formula Business Project at 655 Main Street because the application meets the necessary requirements and criteria for approval pursuant to the protective zoning bylaw with the following
conditions. Um the the the site plans is listed in the staff report. Number two, certification by a licensed professional that all site work is completed in compliance with the approved plan and is is required prior to issuance of the uh
certificate of use and occupancy by the building commissioner. Three, all lighting shall be downcasting, shall not exceed 300 Kelvin, and shall be designed to not illuminate areas off the property. um for a leeching catch basin with stone
around it shall be installed within the proposed island at the stage harbor road entrance adjacent to parking space 11 as shown on the plans. And five, a properly stamped asbuilt plan is required to be submitted to the planning board office
for inclusion in the proper uh property file. >> I'll second that. >> Okay, we'll do a roll call vote. Warren >> and Warren chain approve. >> Uh Charlene >> approve. >> Frank >> approve. >> Bob >> approve. >> Uh Katherine
>> approve. >> And Arts Brew I approve. >> Perfect. Thank you >> very much. Okay. Um there is a lot release request for Once Pier um Pierce path.
Uh, do I have uh someone from the applicant? >> Yep. Hello, Susan Leoo from Eastward Companies. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Oh, yes. >> All right. Great. Great. Yep. We are here. Uh we are the owners of the the
lots at uh 79 Forest Beach Road and at what is now One Pierce Path, the Southerntherly Lot. and we have installed uh the majority of uh the road stub for Pierce Path and done the
improvements for Pierce Path and Bobby's Lane. And we are requesting a release of lots six and seven which are the Pierce Path stub lot and the one Pierce Path lot that are under the covenant um
statement of conditions. And I did submit road construction cost estimates for the required work for Pierce Path and for Bobby's. And I sent pictures to Christine uh believe it was this afternoon showing the work completed.
And as of today, everything is completed except for the installation of five bounds and the asbuilt drawings. and we've given an estimate of uh$,750 $1,750 for that remaining work.
>> And I'll be glad to answer any questions. >> Okay. Okay. Um Christine, do you want to clarify any of your reviews? >> Sure. Um in in reviewing this application, you did all get the um package today which had the um the plan
uh the uh photos as as you had Susan had recom um stated. You also have the um location the plan with the location of the um proposed driveway on this. Um I have spoken to both the um DPW director
and the building commissioner regarding this. There is an open um application for a building permit at this time. Um we do have that the covenant and the statement of conditions is um they have both been recorded. The plan at the um
land court has not been finalized yet. That's not on the applicant that is on the land court. Um that being said, the only outstanding issue that I see is that you can't officially release the lot because it isn't recorded just yet.
Um we've kind of talked inhouse a couple of different ways that maybe this could proceed. Um I my recommendation to you if you're all set with the other pieces of it is that you make it conditional upon um the land court recording of the
plan so that we don't have to um have them come back in any way. >> I don't understand what you just said about the plan not being recorded. It's filed in the land court. That's done. >> It's it's still pending according to the according >> pending for another year. Sometimes it
takes land court three years to issue a plan. >> Right. Once it's filed with land court, it's the same as recording at the registry of deeds. The lots exist. It's just that this the land court has not decreed the plan yet because it
takes them forever to do it. It's so right now that subdivision plan is filed and it's a legal document. So part of the problem that we ran into with the last recording of this subdivision from 2022 prior to getting to my getting here when this was first
set up, the plan could never be it was never finalized at the >> It was never filed with land court. >> No, it was filed. It was never it was never finalized. So I I don't know if there's if if you're saying something different that if as long as it's filed, it's good. I mean, I have that it's
pending. I'm not telling them not to move forward with it. I'm just saying to you that they need to have it. It needs to be recorded. That being said, I have talked to the building commissioner and I suggest that you reach out to him. We have come up with another way for you to
move forward in getting your your building built. But I don't have I I I don't I mean, unless Charlene tells me something differently here and her advice, I don't have a recorded I don't have a recorded lot at this point. It is still considered one lot. So they can't
release they can't release one of one portion of the one lot. >> Charlene, do you have some I don't I don't think you're operating under the correct information. The plan's been filed with land court. >> The plan has been filed. I agree with that. >> Yep.
>> And when I >> So the lots are now >> it says pendingly exist. >> It says pending on the land. >> It say pending for another year. >> That's the way the land court operates. Where were the documents recorded with land court at the registry of deeds?
>> Land court >> in my experience oftentimes in this situation oftentimes the plan will also get recorded at the registry of deeds just for the purposes of >> they won't accept it. >> Again I will say I am not comfortable.
The planning board is going to do what they want to do. I am not comfortable with them releasing the lot, they can say pending the the uh approval by the land court in order to move forward with this. So you don't have to come back
before them. You get it all set with the land court and then the land court has told your administrative person Susan that um it's pending and they're thinking a couple more months. Um, I see the, you know, um, I see on on the the
land court when I look at the at their thing, it says it's pending. I mean, it doesn't matter how long it's going to take it. You know, it might just take a couple of more months. It might take a couple of years like you said. But I can also say to you that the plan, as I said to you, the building commissioner and I
have come up with a way in order for you to move forward with the construction of the of the housing as you want to do it. So, you can work that out with him. I don't think it's it's advisable for me to bring it forward to the planning board. That's not what they're trying to decide. They're just trying to make a
decision on the on the uh lot release. >> So, if I can jump in, we So, we can talk with Jay about um obtaining the building permit or having it issued while this is still pending. >> Yes, that's what I'm That's what I'm saying. We've come up with a couple of ways a couple of ways for you to do that
and move forward. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think the planning board can move forward tonight and say pending pending with the um so David if you disagree with me you can tell me how but >> we'll just
>> I think if we can work with Jay >> on the building permit >> I think we would be satisfied with that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um Charlie any further comments? If you if you'd like to say something, I would say you go up and introduce yourself and
say, >> "Okay." Okay. I mean, the planning board again, they can do what they want if if if they feel differently about how to move forward with the land court. >> I I have to agree with Christine. This is kind of an odd oddity here. Yep.
>> Um and based on that, I would move that we release the lot from the covenant and the statement of condition with a do we do usually do a um 150%
on on a posting a assurityity or something like that. I mean you could it's up to you. I I know that it's a minimal a minimal amount in this particular case. So, um, that give
yourself some reassurances >> that a shity in the amount of $3,000 be posted and that the once the building commissioner is satisfied with the recording of the plan or the at
court that uh staff will release the document of the will provide the release of the covenant and the statement of conditions.
>> So, what I'm saying what I'm saying is he's found a way for them, we believe we found a way for them to actually build the structure right now without actually waiting for the the pending piece of this to be over. >> So, at the at the >> May I make a comment, please?
>> Well, I have a motion on the floor. >> Yeah. Okay. finish your mo finish your motion and then we can ask for comments. Yes. Okay. >> Okay. So, it's to release the statement of conditions and the covenant for the requested lots, >> right? >> To post a shity or bond in the amount of
$3,000 and that the it is at the discretion of the building commissioner as to when it is >> it is at the discret >> Can I finish please? It is at the discretion of the building commissioner
to allow for the building permit to be issued when the building commissioner is satisfied that the lot has been properly recorded and released. >> Okay. Um comments, questions. Catherine need a second first.
>> Oh, okay. Do I have a second? >> I'll second it. >> Okay. Um, Katherine, do you have any comments, questions on this? >> Yes. I I need to reject the motion because I don't think it accurately is stating what I understand Christine to
be saying. What I understand is they have worked out a way for the building commissioner to issue a building per um permit regardless of whether the lot the lot is recorded in land court. It's like a completely separate issue. I think
>> I'm not quite sure how you're going to do that, but it's not the business of the planning board, Christine is saying, and it's completely separate from the issue of the lot being recorded, and I would want the motion to re
>> Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my motion. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if that's correct, Christine, tell me yes or no. Um but I understand it's a completely separate issue and that our motion would just >> somebody else needs to make a motion
then. >> Okay. And can I ask another question? Um I I just want to address the issue that was brought up initially, you know, about do we ever wait approve things that have
not been registered in land court? And all my experience on the planning board, no, we've never done that. So I to what I know in our practice, what Christine is suggesting we do is the correct course of action consistent with
previous practice. So that's all I'll say. Thank Thank you. >> Okay. So you've withdrawn your motion. All right. How how does the board wanted to address this? Do we want to um do any anything to assist in re leasing this
lot? I'm going to say probably something stupid, but that's all right. Been known for that. >> We're all we're doing is making sure that the lots are divided >> as they are in the plan that we see right now
and that they're doing what we asked them to do for those lots. It's not up to us to build a building on the lots. That's up to them. So, we're just we're voting on the plan that they gave us
that they have in in god knows where waiting to get stamped and and uh when it gets stamped, we'll get a copy of it. So, my thing is I would I would let them build and and because they're they're going by the plan that we have and that's the plan
that's on going to be on record. >> Correct. >> So, >> may I say something else? So, I think I'm not saying not to build it and I'm not saying I'm just all I'm saying is the plan that we have come up with to to rectify this situation and the fact that
it's not fully finalized yet is to have them possibly build on as as if it's one lot as if it's on one lot right now. You're building and the other piece would be a guest house for the bigger house that you're building right now. when the fi when the plan gets finalized
and you then have two lots technically then you can go back and do whatever you going to do with 79 Forest Beach Road in the meantime that is our way to get around it rather than to have you release a lot that isn't really created yet in the first place. I that's all I'm not I'm trying to move this along too
because I think it's fabulous that the um applicant worked forward came forward they did what you wanted with Pier's path. They have put in the driveway the way you want it. I think they've made the improvements to Bobby's lane. So, I'm not saying not to do it. We're just trying to do it. I am trying to keep you from doing something that you shouldn't
do in that releasing a lot that isn't created. So, this is a way to do it. I think Charlene's the basis of her shy and the release of the the statement of conditions and the covenant are really good. I think the the release of the lot will come in time once it's finalized at
the at the regist at the land >> because the covenant and the statement of conditions have been recorded. Yes, >> that is correct. >> Both of those lease both of those with a $3,000 shity. >> That's right. That's right. >> I will make that motion.
>> Okay. And Bob, do you have But >> just a minute. Just a minute. There's just a minute, Katherine. Yeah. Do I have a second? >> I'll second it. Okay. Uh, Katherine, you have some other questions and comments. >> Uh,
I realize there >> uh, we can't hear you, Katherine. >> I realize there's a motion on the floor that's been seconded. I think again I have to ask for a revision of the motion, an amendment to the motion. What I understand, yes, we're releasing the
covenant and the statement of the conditions, but we've also been asked to release the lot. And what Christine is saying is we cannot release a lot that doesn't exist yet. This is all completely separate from the issue of building. We don't need to comment on
that or get involved, but we do need to say something. >> We and and she did not there is nothing in the motion that said anything about the building or the release lot or anything. Yes, I know. But what we do need to say is something that our release of the lot
is dependent upon, you know, the what, however you want to call it, the correct recording in land court. And what we could do is approve the release of the lot pending that recording so that it can be done administratively through
community development department. But it has to be pending the recording whether that's in 2 months or 1 month or 2 years. Um but we have to add some language like that that there's a condition to our release of the lot.
Otherwise they will need to come back to us once the lot is recorded in land court and we'll have to release the lot. >> This way if the board agrees it could be done administratively if we add that language. That's all I'm suggesting.
>> Um, Charlene, >> point of voter, can we call the vote? >> Okay. So, Katherine wanted to do an amendment to it, though. >> I'm not >> Do we have a second to that amendment? >> I don't know what her amendment is because there she has not worded it in
such a way to include that. >> I don't know how to word it. >> I'm not accepting that amendment. So, I move the previous motion. >> Okay, then let's let's go with the previous motion. Let's vote on that one
and then we'll move on to uh other business. So, let's do a roll call vote. We have a a motion and a second by Bob. So, uh Warren Chain. >> Um I approve. >> Charlene,
>> approve. >> Frank Sher, >> approve. >> Uh Bob Dis approve. Um, Katherine Hburn >> approve. >> And Artspr, I approve. All right. So, again, we released
the covenant and statement of conditions posting the bond, right? And that's >> $3,000. >> With $3,000. So, that's where we are right now. >> Thank you very much, member. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Do we have anything to sign or do will we have to
>> be somehow? >> Okay. May I ask a question? >> Sure. Go ahead, Katherine. >> Yeah. So for Christine for Art. So am I correct in understanding that then once
the LA once this is registered properly in land court they have to come back to the planning board and we will have to review it to release the lot >> because we have not released the lot.
>> Um >> the lot has not been released. That is correct. >> Yeah. the two lots, the two lots that will ultimately or the three lots. >> Katherine, I'm not quite sure if we have to do that. And what I'll do is I'll seek further input on this. Um, and if
that's the case, then we'll ask the applicant to come back. >> Okay, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes. >> Can we uh can we have a little vote to uh make that an in-house uh uh thing instead of having having them come back here that they can just come down to the
to the We certainly could have another motion to um add that as a sep separate. >> Do you want to do that? >> May I make a comment, Mr. Chair? That's exactly what my revision to the amendment intended to do to make it, you
know, an in-house administrative matter. >> All right. So, you want to make that motion then that that this that the release of the lot can be an administrative matter dealt with with the um uh community development. That right?
>> Yes. I I think if that's what the board >> What are we releasing the lot from? >> Um >> because you're still >> you're you're going to be eventually holding the lot. You're holding the lot right now. >> We're still holding the lot. >> Yeah. >> You are still holding the lot right now. It's just it's one big lot. Yeah, it's
>> they're going to they're trying to subdivide it into two lots or into >> but the motion to release the covenant and the statement of conditions are specific to lots six and seven and we just released those. >> Yeah. >> You release them from the statement of conditions
>> and the covenant. So, >> but you haven't released the plan. >> We don't release a plan. We don't release the the lot from the plan. No. Okay. Then you don't Okay. >> Yeah. But >> well, uh, based on that, Katherine, I think that, um,
>> Charlene is is correct that we probably don't need to have a separate release, uh, >> but the the created yet. >> Yeah, >> that's where my problem is coming in. the lots do not exist yet >> in the the >> that's going to have to be dealt with by
them once they do they get an approval on the land court because that's the only way they can get that second lot >> when they get their ticket back from the land court. >> Yeah. >> It'll be two lots. >> It'll be two lots. >> Then they can come to you and you can give them their money back. How's that? >> Yeah. >> We don't have to give their money back.
You you and and Art can can get together and say >> no. They they still have to come in for the release of the bond. the final bond,00 final bond. >> What I'm trying, but you're I agree with you, Christine, that for the purposes of the building commissioner, he's going to
need to work as if it's a house with a guest house. >> Guest house, right? >> For the purposes of the building permit once it is then um approved at land court because it is pending. It has been
recorded, but it's pending. It's been pending for about six months now. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, I think you're I agree with you that that's how it's going to have to go forward with the building commissioner once it has been submitted
as a you know, the division of land has been approved by land court. Then there's going to be a next step to do whatever needs to happen to make two single family dwellings on two separate lots. And that's going to fall on the building commissioner. Um and just from
where I >> Susan, do you have anything that you want to add to this? >> So it doesn't need to come back to the planning board once land court approves the two separate lots. They can go ahead and divest sell the second lot. Is that correct? >> I would say that that'd be the case
unless we learn something different. No action >> is required by the planning board to >> to allow them once the land court approves the division of the lots. No action is required by the planning board
to release the lot for for sale for example. >> That's correct because we already released the covenant which had that condition in there. >> Okay. >> Yes. I think from where I sit and I'm not the lawyer here, it does seem to me the real world difference we're talking about is
>> not whether they can build the new house, which they can, but having built it, they can't sell it. >> Sell it. Right. >> Right. Until they have two lots. >> Yep. >> So, okay, they can't sell it. Now, it can be a major concern if the land court
takes three years. >> Not our problem. >> But that's not our problem. There's nothing we can do about that. And until in fact there are two lots, >> the new house that can be built cannot be sold. >> Is that is that that's my understanding? Right. >> Correct.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> I have one thing for Okay. Susan, do you have anything you want to add here to this? >> I don't. >> Okay. Good. >> Can I ask a question? Sure. I mean, Susan, >> yeah.
>> Is your understanding >> uh does your understanding equate with what Warren just said? >> My understanding is that lots six and seven were subject to the covenant and the statement of conditions and we we uh
we installed, you know, the required road construction uh items that were required to have those lots released. So that's what we were here for and we do anticipate uh you know hearing from land court
hopefully sooner rather than later but if we can work it out with the building commissioner to be able to move forward with our building of this house that's great. Uh as far as selling that part of the question I would have to ask our
attorney. I'm I'm not sure if a a buyer's attorney would accept uh let their buyer purchase a home if it was still subject to a covenant or or there would something on the uh >> Yeah. >> on the title, >> right?
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um I I need to ask another question. Um so if >> and we've already done this, but I have to ask this question. We've released a covenant on lots six and seven that I
understand from Christine because it's still pending in land court. Those lots technically do not exist yet, but yet we've released a covenant that pertains to those two lots that don't exist yet.
I'm not sure if that's a correct action, even though we've taken it. the board has voted and we've taken it, but I I have a question whether that's okay. >> Yeah, they if I can just address that, the the statement of conditions and the
covenant were recorded. They exist. The plan does say pending, but it it it has been recorded. It's just not finalized until we get that finalized plan. And it they changed they changed the uh description of it on the registry site.
Y >> but as David said, it's it's been filed and it's acknowledged that it's recorded. It's just still pending because that's the way land court does things. They take a long time, unfortunately. >> Okay. >> All right. >> All right.
>> Thanks. >> Yeah, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Uh yes, mine. What I'm trying to say is that when it is landcorded and the buildings the buildings I don't care about, right, >> that they can come back here and not come to the board and say, "Look, we we
have the landcorded piece of paper, right? >> They can go to you and Christina, >> right, >> in in in the office and you can release the release the money back to them >> because we don't care if the house is built or not." >> Yep. >> But the money has nothing to do with the
money has to do with the bounds. was a balance >> the built plan. >> Right. That's all. >> That's that's all I'm saying. When they have all that done, we they don't have to come back here to submit the plan to them guys to the office. >> Yeah. But only the planning board can release that. They have to come back. >> Any other bond or
>> I'm trying to let them release it. >> Well, I don't think I don't think so. >> I don't think mass general law allows for that. >> Yeah, we we normally would do the final release on the bond, but that's a simple thing to do. >> That's okay. That's okay. >> Just cutting into my drinking time.
That's all. All right. All right. Ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch challenging discussion here. Board members, any anything else? Katherine, you have your hand up still. I see. >> Yes, I do. I just Susan and um Eastward,
I just want to thank you for actually building what the board specified and what we asked to be done on those lots. That was a very difficult property. Um the board considered it for a long time and just um thank you for just going
ahead and building it according to what was required. We appreciate I appreciate that. Yeah. >> Okay. Chairman, >> thank you. Okay. Just for clarification, I would like it uh someone to confirm that the site plan that was sitting here in front of me for the when I came into
this meeting which shows the proposed uh structure house to be built on I guess it's lot seven >> um is actually going to be part of the record of what is um going to be done with respect to the site plan that this
>> well that that would be for the building department though we don't normally get involved with specific site plans for res. This site plan, for example, does not show um a um a driveway that comes in from the other side. >> That's correct. >> This could be
>> No, they're not doing that, right? Because that that was never part of the approved plan of subdivision. >> I will put >> I don't care what the house looks like. I care that in fact it meets the criteria that we've been talked about for three years here. I think on on this
right >> I will be putting that if it's not already and maybe Susan has put it already in the building permit portal and >> it is it is >> yeah so >> it's in there >> I will make reference to that in our in my comment to the building commissioner tomorrow
>> okay >> thank you >> uh moving on uh long range planning >> um really we uh I'm still working with um um Christine about what we're going to do for the for
uh town meeting. It's probably going to be short and sweet. It's going to I would imagine the two slides that show the state criteria that we're apply or complying with as part of the ADU, a separate one that says these are the adjustments that we've done to our
particular one and that's about it. Uh because there wasn't many adjustments that we were doing that was outside of what state law was. Uh yes, Frank. Um it's it's on it's late in the meeting when it when course comes up and the meeting starts at I don't know in >> six
>> so I don't um >> no one's going to listen to what we say at that >> probably not >> anyway >> I was going to keep it short maybe maybe a minute or two minutes >> right but but I I was thinking that it might be helpful to have a letter or two in the chronicle >> because
>> okay >> basically um we have to do this Um, and if we don't do it, we'll be worse off than if >> we'll be worse off. Yes. >> And I I think a letter if if you would prepare a letter for the chronicle. >> Sure.
>> Uh, which explains why this is important. >> Okay. >> That I think would be far more persuasive than a 30-se secondond spiel at the end of three hours into the evening. >> I I don't mind doing that. Is that is that something that the chair of the board would do with
>> I think it should come from the chair. >> Yeah, I know. I I I think that's appropriate because you're not you're not promoting it. You're explaining. >> It's purely exactly. >> All right. I'll work with Christine to draft something up. We'll have to get it in probably this week. >> And and just for discussion here, are we
aware of any small groups um who may be adamantly opposed to uh these provisions? >> We're not hearing it. who are going to be very loud and very long and at the end of the meeting will come up with one more vote than is needed to uh approve it.
>> We had we had one literally one comment out of all the uh questions that came up and all the boards that I went to. Ask it another way. >> Can we anticipate that somebody or some group may in fact be opposed to this
either for totally spurious reasons or because they're totally ignorant? All right. Because if those if we had some idea that there was a group or groups like that they will be there at the end of the meeting and they will in fact be
vocal even if they are totally ridiculous >> illinformed and perhaps totally incorrect in anything they say. >> So we are aware of that. I'm just saying that is something as well that could be
without mentioning him just in a letter like that. >> Yeah. Just bear in mind, Warren, we had approved an an ADU already. It was 2019. We made an amendment to it in 2022. So, we've
had an ADU on on the bylaw for five years, five, six, seven years now. So, this is nothing strange for the town. It's state law now. So all we are doing is doing a slight adjustment in here to
deal with our what what we think is appropriate for it. >> I I agree with that completely. I'm just getting a little, you know, burned here by the fact what has happened in the past. >> I think a perhaps a good way to put it is if this gets voted down at town meeting, our existing bylaw is
>> moot. Yep. >> And the state regulation takes over without any of the local concerns that we've addressed in our >> proposal. Your your previous bylaw is done and gone anyway and you've already been overwritten by the state.
>> That's the key point. And you might even mention one of the two amendments that we've made to tailor it to Chadam. >> Yeah, >> that's correct. >> Right. And that's going to be part of what I'm going to probably emphasize more than anything at the >> I wouldn't panic about the length of the
warrant at this time. I know that they are going to do some con some consent agenda items. So that might help to group certain things together to help move it along a little bit. Um we didn't have any correspondence today. So I would say that's pretty much
all we have. >> Okay. >> Mr. Chair, can I just make a comment? >> Okay. Katherine, go ahead. >> Yeah. No, I just want to really reiterate the main thing that needs to be said. The first sentence has to be
state law requires the ADU bylaw. And you know, if we don't take any action tonight, we will have what the state law requires. what we're offering you tonight is better than what the state law requires because and then just list
the little >> amendments that we've made. But I think mo many people may not understand that if they don't uh agree with this that >> state law will take over. I don't I think they don't understand that.
>> Yeah. Okay. I think that would be a good point to I'll put into the uh letter to the editor. Okay, I'll work on that. We got a couple days to do this, Christine. And I >> Do we have another meeting date at all?
>> Not until the end of May. >> We had scheduled one for the 18th of May. Um, we do not have anything on an agenda at this point because I cannot attend that meeting electronically or in person. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, and
>> so I'm thinking maybe we'll just we'll end up canceling it, but I had to put it in because it was going to be such a long stretch in between, >> right? Uh, if if we need to do it because of uh an ANR or something like that, we might just have one item on it. Okay. As long as there's four of us here, we can do it.
All right. If there isn't any more discussions or comments, >> Mr. Chairman, I move we adjourn the meeting. >> I second that. >> Damn. We'll do a roll call vote. Warren Chain, >> approve. >> Charlene, >> approve. >> Frank, >> approve. >> Bob, >> approve.
>> Katherine, >> approve. >> And Arts Brew, I approve. And the time is I can't see the clock. Um, 6 uh 6:45 p.m. Thank you.