Good evening. You on there? No. Okay. Good evening. My name is Okay. My name is Art Sprew. I'm chair of the planning board. This is the Town of Cadam Planning Board hybrid meeting
December 22nd, 2025 and it's 5:00 p.m. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly thereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, including the use of AI
note-taking apps, uh, please notify the chair. I don't see anybody. Uh pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025, extending certain COVID 19 measures
adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general law chapter 3A section 20 until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Cadam Planning Board is being conducted in person and via remote
participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone
number 508-9454410 conference ID 893 067226 pound or join the meeting via uh online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast
on Chattam TV Exfinity channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide real-time access. We will post a recording of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. And again, I don't see anybody who is
recording. So, we'll start by a roll call. >> Uh Warren, >> I'm present. >> Bob, >> present. >> Uh Charlene, >> present. Uh Bob >> present. >> Uh Katherine >> present >> and Arts Brew present. And Frank Shear
is absent tonight. Are there anybody who has to recuse himself for tonight's agenda? >> Mr. Chairman, uh on the uh 8788 Main Street, I just want people to know that I have worked on that project, but
there is no monetary value whatsoever. uh since I've worked there. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Let's begin with uh the minutes from December 8th, 2025. Do I
have any comments, edits? Uh Charlene. >> Uh yes. On the site plan approval page one for 470 Main Street. Um the motion was actually made by myself, not Bob Dubis because he wasn't there. And it and there were also two conditions. Um
so it should be uh um at the end of that with conditions that sentence and then on the next page at the top of the page um for 71 Coral Road the MO motion was made by myself and it was
actually seconded by Mr. Shear. >> Okay. Any other comments, edits? Do I have a motion to approve the minutes from December uh December 8th, 2025? >> Mr. Chairman, I move approval of the December 8, 2025 meeting minutes as
amended. >> I'll second that. >> Okay, we'll do a roll call vote. Warren, >> approve. >> Bob, >> approve. >> Charlene, >> approve. >> Bob, >> approve. >> Katherine, >> approve. >> And Artsboro, I approve.
All right. Site plan approval. Uh amended change of use. It's 87880 Main Street. If you could um introduce yourself and walk us through your your application. >> Hello. Um my name is Caitlyn Beavenon
and I am here about the hair salon at 878 Main Street again. Um, so basically I am now trying to go into the front space instead of the middle space. It is a little bit larger. Um, so I am excited about that. Have a
little more space. Um, but as far as everything else, it's pretty much the same thing. Um, it's the, you know, four people working there. The parking now isn't an issue at all because I have a lot of parking. Um, and I also still
have the extra parking in case um, in the other letter. Um, and I don't think there's any issues with any other owners as well. So, >> okay, there's um, two inter
departmental comments. One is the water department DPW. Applicant applied for a change of flow and the board of health is uh the site is connected to municipal sewer flow allocated um
not adequate for hair salon. So additional sewer flow will be required for approval by the water and sewer division. So those things still apply I imagine because that >> yes >> didn't move forward on >> I think the the the water flow was
already um done. >> Okay. All right. Do uh board members have any comments or questions like to ask the applicant? Uh Bob, >> how many chairs? >> Four chairs.
>> There was there was four chairs originally there. >> Yes. How why is there more water flow? >> I'm not sure. >> I'm just asking. >> It's the same amount. Yeah, I guess it would be the same as the other space because it's the same amount of chairs.
So, >> um uh Bob, I think that this has to do with um from the previous use, not um which was I think office space in this location.
>> Okay. Okay. I I I'm I am uh for this just so you know. I just was asking >> I think I should probably just clarify for the record. So this applicant came before you before >> um uh to she was going to lease a different space within this within this
um complex. Um now she's coming back at another space. There has been a change in ownership. Um many of the things that were were uh brought up during that previous thing still apply. Um the owner of the
property now um he has been notified that he will have to come forward with a change of use application for that other for that other um use the office use to come into the smaller space and then um
Caitlyn has come in with her application for the bigger space. I would suggest that as part of your, you know, your review tonight, I would just say to make sure that they, you know, they follow up with DPW and that all of the proper water and sewer flows and all of that
have actually been met. I know applications were um, you know, put forward before, but I don't know where they turned out because we never went through with um, >> I was just asking if there was four chairs before and there's four chairs now. That's kind >> but no the the
>> the um salon never opened with the four chairs. >> She never was able to reach an agreement with the owner of the property of the unit. So that so it never opened there. >> Never open. >> I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. >> Now now I understand why the water uses Okay. >> Well, I still I'm personally I'm in
favor of it. How's that? you. >> I I I think the um the other thing that's important is when we were making the assessment here and we were dealing a lot with this parking spaces. Um the same thing would need to apply in here. We're dealing with parking for all the
units together and the way we resolved it previously is the same way we will resolve it with this one. Is that still the same expectation on your part? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. All right. So that would be whatever we had identified as the condition before we
would just continue it here with the new new unit address. Are there any other comments or questions? Katherine, any Mr. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Yes, Mr. Chair. Um, the only thought I
had on this, I just So, the other unit, 880 Main Street, where you're not moving in, we already did a site plan review for that site and we approved a change of use for that unit for a hair salon.
So, this is partly a question, partly a concern. We need to make sure that that change of use is reversed. Yeah. In some way so that we don't duplicate all the parking that's required
>> um in terms of the use that has been assigned to these two units because we already reviews the reviewed this with regard to the other unit. So my question is did our decision or does our decision regarding the change of use for the
other you for the other unit stand and if it stands we somehow need to make sure that that's changed again otherwise we have this issue where you know technically speaking we have to sort of duplicate everything which of
course we don't need to do but >> do you see my question for Christine or art or >> yeah I take your So, we can have um I can have uh >> Kate um sub submit to me an email just indicating that she is withdrawing that
previous application um >> because she never she never went into that use. She was the previous applicant. So, with this new application, she's changing. I have also informed the new owner >> that he needs to bring forward a new application for that other space.
>> I I think this makes sense. because both units, let's just say we we approve it and we were silent about the the withdrawal on the other one. Well, you can open up another salon there and double your size. I don't think that's your intent here, right? >> Exactly.
>> Yeah. >> So, um I I think that would uh what Christine is suggesting is is um withdraw the application for the other unit. >> Okay. >> Um and it's uh applied here. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Okay. As long as that's, you know, as long as that satisfies the >> Maybe you want to state that for the record tonight that you are withdrawing. >> Yes, I am withdrawing 8. It's 880 Main Street. >> Okay. All right. Um, let's see. With that, if
there's no other comments or questions, um, if the board is inclined to approve the site plan approval for >> just one comment, you know, just for my, um, edification, I don't actually recall what the prior use that was approved to be changed to the other unit for your
hair salon. Um, presumably that is the use that would then become officially the one on record. >> Um, and isn't what was it previously? So it was vacant at the time um when she brought the application forward for
>> record it was approved as a use >> what was the use previously that would now become >> it was it was vacant when it came forward prior to that it was retail there was nobody in there three years but before that it was retail >> okay then it sold
>> so it it would revert to that once your application is officially withdrawn as it has been verbally it would be approved for retail Can we just make the criteria >> uh it's vacant right now so it's not it's unless another exactly the same
retail establishment came in and I I know I have been I have received information from the owner like I said that the office use which is a a you know like an office front basically um is going to to apply to move into that
space. So, we won't be going to retail. >> May I? >> Yeah, go ahead, Katherine. >> But may I just come I mean, the way I understand the use is that if a use is assigned to a space, whether it's vacant or not, that's the use that's assigned.
And if someone moves in there who's not retail, I would understand even though it's been vacant, that's the use that's been assigned by, you know, pre previous planning board or whatever. and that they would need to go in for a change of
use if it was something other than retail even though it's been vacant for some time just because it's vacant the I understand the change of use doesn't dissolve I mean the use that's assigned doesn't dissolve is am I correct in that
>> well I I think you're right and I think Warren was right in in pointing out that it would it should revert back to the previous u use which was retail Yeah. >> Yeah. That that was my point. >> No. >> Yeah. >> And that's fine. I very much in favor of
this. I'm just like it to not be a problem going forward because >> somebody moves in as an office and it's not approved for that. >> All right, Charlie. >> So, if a if if a building or a unit has been vacant for more than two years, it
actually loses the protection that it may have had. >> Oh, okay. for not necessarily protection, but >> any anything that's going to go back into 880 unit A >> would require coming back to the planning board and the building commissioner for a change of use.
>> Y that makes it very clear. Thank you. >> Okay, no other comments. Thank you. All right. All right. So, um, let's see if the board is inclined to
approve site plan approval for 878 Main Street. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll try. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Chairman. I move to approve the site plan approval amended change of use with conditions for the proposed hair salon
for 780 Main Street, Unit B, >> 878. 878. Is that what I said? 878 U Main Street Unit B. Um, as it meets the necessary requirements and criteria
for approval pursuant to the protective zoning bylaw. Um the uh conditions as outlined in the staff report. Items one and two shall be the conditions along with an understanding a
third condition that the unit at 880A shall require a change of use in if a new use is going to go into that unit. And I have a fourth condition that the parking that had been approved
offsite for the salon use shall continue with this new location if it's deemed necessary. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second it. >> Okay, we'll do a roll call vote. Uh Warren, >> approve.
>> Bob, >> approve. Charlene >> approve. >> Bob >> approve. >> Uh Katherine >> approve. >> And Art Sprew I approve. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Next is site plan approval amended
change of use for 72 Coral Road. Do I have an applicant here? 71 Coral Road. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, if you could introduce yourself and walk us through where we are.
>> Sure. Um, for the record, Jamie Norcross representing Pond Davanyon. Uh, with me this evening in the back is, uh, Mario Mariani, who's the chief operating officer of Pond Davanyan. Um, just to start, we appreciate the board's patience. I know we've been a continued item on your agenda for a while now. Uh
Mario has been working through some different uh concepts, all of which took a little bit longer than anticipated. Um just some some overview for you. Uh Pond Pond Devon began leasing the property in the spring of 2024. Um they have uh had
a restaurant in Hyannus for a number of years, almost 20 years. They wanted to bring that concept down to Chadam. Uh since opening Pond Devanyon has heard from many customers about the need for additional table seating at the restaurant as well as the ability to eat outside during the warmer months. Um there's also a financial component for
my client. It's determined that in order to compete with the many restaurants in town um it really needs additional table seating on Devanyon is open year round. Uh and additional table seating is important to the company in order to generate uh sufficient revenue. So, the goal for the proposal is to allow for
this additional seating seating while also establishing a more organized site with increased on-site parking. There's also some site improvements, um, curb stops or wheel stops, uh, relocation of the dumpster to what we think is a more appropriate location behind the
building, less of a eyesore, uh, as seen from the street. Um and so the proposal uh we included a um a summary of the proposal as part of the submitt that we um sent in last week. Um and so uh we
would be asking to add uh four dedicated employee spots behind the building which would leave nine dedicated parking spots for use by customers which would uh provide for the 36 uh table seats that we're asking for pursuant to the bylaw.
Um this was or has been a food establishment for many years. Um many of you probably remember the bakery was there for a number of years. Um it was very very busy, very very popular. You'd often see people lined up to Collins Drive. People would park over at the
funeral home and that's just sort of the way it was. I think a benefit of this is it um formalizes the site uh quite a bit more than its previous uh iteration. So we'd be happy to answer any questions. >> Okay. Uh let me just uh review some
things in uh Christine's comment letter. Um the first thing is the the previous site uh uh approval on this dates back to 2003 and that was
included in the packet. Um that indicates uh six parking spaces there. So the existing plan that was shown is not an approved site. So I just want to that
that's where we start from not from the nine that were there adding adding more. So the other thing that I think is important to note is some of the comments that Christine has uh put together associated with bylaw concerns.
Uh the setbacks um both from the uh road and from the butters um would have to be addressed. Uh buffer zones would have to be addressed. um the you know parking size and access off of uh Collins Road would would be a
concern since vehicles would be by backing out. Um the uh number of tables I think would be a concern. Uh there was a comment that were written in the wrote in the letter there about the
number of tables that were outside. When I was there last week Wednesday there were 10 tables with 48 chairs outside. So, I don't know what the establishment is proposing to do during the off seasons and that, but um there's been a
variety of changes that have been altered on this site so far without any formal site plan approval. So, I think we have to start with the basic site plan that has previously improved is in the packet that shows just six parking
spaces. So there's a significant change from what was previously approved to what is being asked for now. Um there were some comment letters that were submitted by the billing commissioner. Um
uh I'll read uh I'll read his I'll review the planning planning board's request for comment regarding the applicants supposed to increase number of seats with tables serviced both inside and outside the building uh fluctuating seasonally. The interior
occupant load and seat count are unrelated. Seat count is determined by the board of health and the water and sewer department. Occupant load is determined by the contractor or his registered professional professional at the time the building permit is applied
for based on code requirements. My role in the permit review process is limited to verifying the proposed occupant load complies with 780 CMR the state building code. No new or revised occupant load for that
building nor do we establish occupant loads independently. I advised that any request to increase the building's occupancy must be submitted through a permit application with supporting documentation which I
would then review and approve or deny. An increase in the occupancy would be required to support the proposed increase in seating. If approved as the building's current doc documented occupancy is 22 persons, 16 seats and six staff. Outdoor seating is not
regulated under the building code and is not included in the building's total occupancy. Um the other one from Paula Jones which is yeah
uh 6971 Carl Crawl Road has a pending application for increase in flow in additional seats. Um, and I have another one here.
This is for Sarah Clark. This is from the U zoning board. The proposed parking spaces on the easterly side of the property do not comply with the required a butter setback of 15 ft and parking spaces 8 to 10 do not comply with the
required 20 foot road setback. The addition of these parking spaces will require the grant of a dimensional variance from the zoning board of appeals. Uh relocated dumpster and proposed landscape retaining wall will require
review and approval from the historic business district commission. Uh, and from Shannon Neely, the CCNY LLC currently holds an annual wine and malt
beverage only liquor license. Hours of service of alcohol are restricted to Monday through Saturday 11 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and Sunday 10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. I'm aware that the owners will be applying for a seasonal all alcohol
beverage license in the rear in the near future. I if approved, this would allow service of all alcoholic hard beverages from April 1st to November 30th with an extension to January 15th of the following year with permission from the
select board. Services of wine and liquor and malt uh beverages only would be permitted January 16th through March 31st. Under local regulation, any extension of service of alcoholic beverages to outdoor seating would require a public
hearing with the select board and notice to butters within 300 ft to amend the description of licensed premises. Those were the um the comment letters that were submitted. Um open it up for the board's comments and I'll
>> Mr. Chair, my own >> if u with your approval, I'd just like to address a couple of the items in the staff report that you mentioned. Okay. >> Um, I I understand what you're saying about the site plan that's on file. I do think it's worth pointing out that uh my client hasn't done any restriping with the parking. That was all done under
previous uh regimes at the site. So, we he inherited what's there. He hasn't gone out and out of the space. I think that's important clarification for the board to understand. >> Um, in terms of the exterior seating, um, I know there's some restaurant examples cited in the staff report. I think the distinction there is those are
not table seating. You can't serve out there. It's really a convenience for customers in terms of they get a coffee, they get a pastry, they can go sit and eat it, but you can't have table service out there and that's not what what happens at the site currently. >> So, and again, I hate to hearken back to
history, but um the bakery had picnic tables out there for years and that's just the same use. People would grab a a coffee or a donut and they would sit there and eat it um instead of getting right back in their car if they're on their bicycle right before they ride off on their bicycle. Well, we've had several of applications
who are looking for outdoor seating and the board's practice has been to include all of that seating as part of the counts used for parking. >> Okay. >> All right. Um Max was was a big one. The uh Mexican place over at the Village
Market. Um Squire uh all of them have to meet that criteria. If you're adding seats to your restaurant, whether they're indoors or outdoors, it needs to be addressed as part of part of seating. The vehicles have to come to, you know,
uh even if they're just going to sit outside, right? >> They're going to need to get there. >> And our plan now, as you saw, would be for those those tables that you see on the plan. >> I I understand. >> Yep. >> So, but we as a from a site plan perspective with parking, we do include that as part of our account.
>> No, I understand that. I was explaining sort of the history in terms of how that use it wasn't just add things were added willy-nilly to the property. >> Um would the any of the board members like to ask any questions of the applicant? >> Um Warren, thank you. Um I'm a fan of
Pandavin in general. So, and I'm think you've done about all you could possibly try and do with this site trying to achieve your objectives. Um a question for you. Um when um you have proposed
that there be no um outdoor service from 7 to 11 in the morning. I think >> uh no table service from 7 table service. It's takeout only during those hours. >> It's takeout only. Is it not possible to you know order
breakfast as a takeout? I mean I've done that several times myself. Um, again, because you had no approval for outdoor service, so I ordered breakfast and it was brought out on a paper plate and I I had my favorite
Pend Avenue breakfast out on the out on the patio. >> So that's takeout, quote unquote, not table service. But it does seem to me that that type of takeout requires the same um acknowledgement of a parking
requirement as if you did have table service. I have made regular uh trips by there and even now in the offse in the early morning um it's crowded. Mhm. >> Um the thought of having
um even the um 20 I think it is indoor seating uh with 16 outdoor seats with table service in the morning with people that are having a meal.
provides really no parking spaces for those that are there for takeout, which is going in to buy a baguette or a coffee and sweet rolls and so on. Um, so parking in general is a is a real challenge for me on this. Um, I think
it's marginal even if there were no takeout to have 36 seats assigned there. Mhm. >> Um but if you have 36 seats assigned in season especially with people having a meal and then there's no space for
people that literally are there to go in and take something out and take out. It means that there will not be sufficient parking where people will park. if they're there for five or 10 minutes to run in seems to me creates exactly the
same problem that has always been there since uh Pandem has been there that people are going to want to park on Collins Road or they're going to park in the in the funeral parlor or they're or across the street in the vacant spaces
and so on. So, I don't have a solution to this, but I do say that um 36 approved seats um and nine um parking spaces provides no spaces for those that are there for
takeout. Um and that's a problem for me. So, that's my only comment. >> Uh Charlene, you think you had your hand up? >> Um
I'm having issues with this one and and Warren raised >> I pushed it. It didn't go on. Um I I have some concerns wii with this and and I think Warren explained some of my
issues regarding the parking uh the parking spaces out back which um are actually in the west side of the building, not the east side of the building. Yep. >> As it said in the the note from um >> uh the ZBA um folks there,
>> um those require variance, >> right? >> And I don't know what the hardship is to be able to be granted that. And also, um you know, parking spaces, uh certainly parking space 9, um I don't believe
meets the the setback either. So, To me, it seems like we're trying to put too much into something that just can't hold what it what you want to do. Um I I just I really have some concerns with this.
It's too big for the site that it it's trying to go into. M >> um especially based on the you know the number of seats um which right now uh based on the building commissioner's uh
uh note um the you know they're limited by that so they're already beyond what they're supposed to have based on what the building commissioner has done for an occupancy for there if I'm reading that letter correctly. So, I'm just, you
know, I'm very concerned with this being before us. I don't feel that based on what we have in front of us that I can vote to approve this. And it's nothing against, you know, the applicant, the restaurant, or anything. It's just, you
know, those four spaces out back. I mean, I was on my phone to look at aerial photographs and the residence right behind on and on on Collins um lane number 19 is really close.
>> That's a residential um property. >> It is a resial property and it's really really close. And to have the dumpster back there >> behind the building at 71 Crawl Road and the four parking spaces to me is really
an intrusion to that that house that's been there um from what I can you know remember for quite a while >> before the bakery. >> Yeah, probably before the bakery. So I'm just I'm really conflicted. I'm I'm not
comfortable with with what we have before us. If I could just uh address a couple things, Mr. Chair. Sure. >> Um I understand the concerns on the spaces. Again, we're trying to think outside the box a little bit with the challenging site. No matter where we put a parking space, it's going to be within a setback. Um and we understand it would
require variance and approval from the zoning board. Um there is a pretty substantial fence behind. We are proposing some additional plantings. Uh I would point out that this is all GB3 including the residential properties behind. So, I understand it's a residential property, but they're
actually all located in a commercial district. So, um, in terms of zoning compliance, we're more in compliance than res >> I think if you take a look at it, only a sliver is on that adjacent uh res. >> Yeah.
Yeah. Uh, Bob, you had uh some questions. >> Well, I I mean, I I'm going to echo what the other two have said. I I will say that um my perception is that your
Hyannis uh restaurant has an even bigger parking issue than this one in terms of the number of spaces in it and yet you've you've managed to make that one work. That's the only thing I see that's in
favor here other than you know you guys somehow figure out how to make make this work with less parking than most people would. But it's still not ideal in any way that that we go forward and do this because
we want you to be successful and if you're going to be more successful than you are now, we know we're going to have parking issues here. Bob Dubis. >> Yeah, I want to bring up a little bit of the history. When that was a bakery,
there was only two two uh uh benches and tables out there so that people could grab their stuff and wait and or eat it there and cook. Most of the people were on bicycles or walk-ins. >> Then after the bakery closed, they
brought in a uh a sandwich. They tried to make it a sandwich shop, >> and that did okay. Uh but again it didn't have enough parking spaces and they they put a patio in there I believe
and put more tables out there and then took the all the bakery area out to make it larger and uh but still the parking was was always a troublesome with the next door neighbor. I am not in
favor of this parking on the west side, especially moving the dumpster to where it is because there's apartments probably 25 ft away from there our apartments and the neighbor the neighbors are going to complain and I don't see how unless the garbage truck
comes there uh at 4:00 or 5 o'clock in the morning how it's going to get the dumpster out of there. So that means that all of that stuff has to stay in there all night long. It cannot be picked up. Uh, and am I am I right in saying that you want to stay open till
9:00 at night? >> Yes. >> Well, I don't I don't see this bakery or sandwich shop used to close about 5:00, 4 to 5:00. Uh, and and it gave rest to the people around there.
And I I see if you're staying open with 30 some odd seats and people in there and want to serve alcohol, which I'm sorry, I'm I'm against it. Uh because you know what happens when people sit outside and drink or they sit inside and drink and they stand out, get in their
cars and talk and yak and go it. I think 9:00 is is outrageous for this type of business to be where it is. I think that when you bought this business, you should have known that it it was small and that the expansion of
it was going to be hard to do. And I don't think this is the right place for it. I wish that you would have found a different place if you wanted to make a 36 or 39 seat restaurant out of it, which is I mean a a lunchon. It's not a restaurant. It's
called a lunch a lunchon thing. and and I think I think it's the wrong place for it and I I don't see as it is now I have a hard time voting for it the way it is but I would continue it the way it is but to expand it and have alcohol there
um my personal nothing to do with the board my personal feeling that this is not the right place for this it was a bakery it did good it was a sandwich shop and they folded because it was some reason and you took it over and you've done very well at it
the way it is. If you can't keep it the way it is, then I'm sorry. I think you should look for another place. That is only my opinion, too. I'm to say that. Thank you. >> Uh Katherine, did you have any uh comments or questions?
>> Yes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I did have a lot of comments, but I think my friends and colleagues on the planning board have probably given voice to all of them. I agree with everything everyone has said. I think I love Pand
Avenue. I pick up takeout there. I've had some wonderful brunches there. No complaints about what is there. But it's just what is being proposed, even what is being currently done there is too
much for the site. Um, even if the zoning board of appeals granted the variances for the parking spaces and the dumpster in the back, I will not approve those parking spaces or that dumpster in
the back there. Um, I I don't know how you plan to get in and out of them. Um, so I won't approve that. I think also it would have to be carefully mon monitored. The table plan that you that
was in the packet anyway showed 46 seats total. Um I understand that's been revised so that what you're proposing is four tables outside with four seats and then 20 seats inside plus six employees.
um you'd have to somehow monitor the takeout people. So the takeout people didn't also have seating outside. I mean then we're kind of really exploding everything. So I'm unfortunately I just need to say I agree with Charlene's
concerns, Warren's concerns, Bob Duba's concerns, and as it stands right now, I could not approve this site plan as proposed. Um, let me just follow up with some of my comments. Um,
uh, because so many of the, um, requests that you have in here, um, fall outside what is allowed by zoning. In my view, unless the zoning board is going to grant a variance for that,
this site would never move forward the way it is. It requires a setback for the parking and a buffer for the uh to the adjacent residential area. I think that's going to be a very steep hill to climb and get
approval on it. I don't support stacking cars. We've never supported stacking cars on a site. um uh that that is not something that um allows for circulation that adequate
circulation and for safety purposes. Um the ninth spot that's shown on the plan there is blocking where the delivery is. That's the only way that delivery occurs at the restaurant. You call for delivery being between 8:00 and 2:00. Eight
delivery companies delivered during that time. Now, how do you do that when you have um that parking spot filled with vehicles? You can't get in or out. Where do you park your truck in order to or vehicle that's loading or unloading? It's parked in a private way blocking
traffic. Um the dumpster was brought up by several people here. And it says 5 to 7:00 in the morning is going to be a pickup. That's way in the back. Guess what happens? You have a dump truck a
gar a garbage truck which is backing up with the beeper alarm that is going to really bother the adjacent butters and neighbors apparently apartment in the single family residential. I think that's that's a steep hill to climb on all of these points of of affecting the
abutters. Um, I think if if this is something that you're willing to pursue, I think you you should be getting uh sign off from the ZBA first before you come back to us because I I don't think I could support
um the application as it is because I just don't see it possible for you to um get a sign off for the major impacts. if the ZBA signs off on that and you come back and maybe we can revisit it, but there's just just too many challenges on
this site as most of the things that the other board members um have indicated I also support. Um this is uh you know up to you. You can withdraw your application. You can ask us to go ahead and do a vote on
this. Uh >> uh we would ask to withdraw without prejudice please. Okay, >> Mr. Chairman, I move that we allow for the withdrawal without prejudice of this application. >> I'll second that.
>> Okay, we'll take a a roll call vote. Warren, >> I approve. >> Um Bob, >> approve. >> Charlene, >> approve. >> Bob, >> I approve. >> Katherine, >> I approve. >> And Harts, I approve. >> Thank you for your time. Merry Christmas. Thank you.
Okay. So, couple things on long range planning. Um I think you got in your packet last week the um draft guidelines on the um seasonal community. Um,
one also one of the things uh that was passed as part of law is the Yes, it did. >> They were in our packet >> last week. Don't remember that. >> I don't remember that. >> Not the seasonal community. >> Yeah. Wasn't seasonal communities regulations?
>> No, we had your >> No, your >> Yeah, we had your storm water. >> Okay. Well, we'll have we have to get you that. Well, um you can give you can give us the point.
>> Um what what I will uh say is that part of the law was to uh really addressed uh the accessory dwelling unit. Okay. U now what the community development has been doing along with our town council is
they've drafted up um a bylaw that complies with the state law. Their recommendation is going to be to withdraw uh to rem replace what we have right now with the draft one. Um
I'd like to put that on the agenda for our next meeting in January, which is the 12th of January. Um that I believe that's the only thing that'll be on the agenda for that. Is that right? >> That is correct. >> So, uh it may take us some time to go
through that. and I'd like to go through it. But again, the the whole idea was is it's pretty much written to reflect what the whole law what the law says. Okay. The other thing, and I did look at at the uh regulations, as a matter of fact,
one of your comments in your um uh last week, it's in a minutes. you were uh mentioning that there could be some um edits or some uh effect to our West Cham neighborhood center based on the
short-term rental and the owner occupancy piece. And there are some components in here associated with the regulations. I I could have sworn that this was delivered to you. I apologize for that. Um
so it does get into and I'll read the topics. Um yearround housing trust funds uh preference for seasonal uh community essential public employees. Um artist housing
um year-round housing occupancy restrictions. Um, and also has a a comp part of it in here for uh tiny tiny lots and tiny homes, tiny
house on a year- round housing unit. I think the big thing that could affect us is the potentially the short-term rental. And let me see if I can pull it up here.
and uh the housing occupancy restrictions. Now, that might be something that we'd want to adjust within our our bylaw before we advance it. Also, the other criteria that they had in here of house housing preferences
for seasonal community essential public employees. Is that something that we'd want to encourage or even adopt as part of the West Chadam Neighborhood Center? it. Since we're looking at uh a different type of housing in that area, this might be an area to include it.
Here's a suggestion on this. I'm uh willing to listen. So, we I originally thought that we would have an outreach with the public on this. When I spoke with uh
Christine, Gloria, and Katie last week, uh they recommended that they do a uh workshop with us about the seasonal community guidelines that are here. And I can schedule that for our second
meeting in January, which would be the 26th workshop at 4:00 and we can conduct our business at 5. Gloria could be here and she could give us a walk through breather on this how it could be adjust
we could adjust some of the uh bylaw provisions in the west neighborhood center if that's something that we would want to do but I think um I don't have all the background in this at all and I think Gloria is much more informed of it than I am and she would be willing to
come and speak to us and walk us through it though warren Um, I think that's a great idea. What I was hoping um to see uh is our proposed draft that
was turned down um amended um to the min minimum extent required uh to conform to the seasonal communities law. um 90 95% of what we had drafted I think
still applies but certain changes would need to be made >> right >> and there are a couple of things that would now be permitted relating to short-term rentals for example >> that we held back on to ensure that our
draft would pass muster uh with the attorney general's office >> right >> that would allow Ow us to amend our draft potentially to make the reseasonal year-round housing requirements and
restriction on short-term rentals um more severe than than we had actually gone forward with which would be exactly what we had intended. Um there are undoubtedly several areas that we never addressed at
all in our draft such as preference for um town employees and and so on. >> Um and um certain types of the housing units for example. We did in
fact provide some flexibility for the tiny houses and I think that might be able to remain as drafted or would need to be tweaked. Um but I think you know we've got 95% of what I would want to
take back to the voters and explain exactly why it makes all the sense in the world to get them to approve it. Um and I think that um to go back and start drafting from scratch um
with the you know seasonal community um aspect in mind >> is not where I would want to go. I would want to >> somebody take our draft and tweak it with what has to change, right? >> And then highlight the few things which
could change if we chose to do that, >> right? and then have the discussion you are proposing and the working session I guess you might call it with the experts as to what else we would collectively wish to modify in terms of our draft.
>> I'm not suggesting that we have to reddraft the whole piece. I think that there's some uh adjustments that we do on this. I think we take some of the content. I don't have enough of a background and understanding of this about how this should be formulated. I think Gloria would be a better candidate
to help us with that. I mean, this has been her baby all along. And so, um, with my, uh, short discussion that I had with her last week, she sort of convinced me that this is be a good way to go, I would hate to go forward with
this and then pass it and then all of a sudden find that we have to make we should make a modification to this next year. And that would that wouldn't be the way I would want to go. So that's the only reason why this was a a good suggestion on their part and I I I I was
trying to adopt it as best I could. >> But I got her commitment to actually do a workshop of this though. >> But if memory serves, we have a timeline here which is extraordinarily tight if we're going to be amending the draft to take it forward for town meeting. >> Let let's see how much of it would be
affected after we get through with it. Yeah, it may it could be small. U Bob. So, next one we're just going to discuss the ADU. >> ADU only. Yeah. And I think it's going to take us the meeting to to go through it all.
>> I I could we get a 15minute um uh going through everything before we just talk about the ADU. It just seems to me there are too many things that are overlapping. Oh, well, we did the ADU and now all of a sudden we didn't talk
about small properties and you know, it just seems to me uh there's this new u requirement that none of us know anything about. It affects ADU. It affects the West Cadam. I don't want to start talking about any of them until I
get a background. So, it would be better for me, okay, >> if the if the uh >> briefing was first and then we talked about ADU in the first one and then West Chadam in the second. >> Okay. All right. Um
>> um so when we talked I get what you're I get what you're saying and I will ask that question um within the next couple of days but as it stands right now Gloria had offered to come to the meeting on the 26th to talk about the
the seasonal communities piece of it. Um we still don't have the complete final bylaw from the state. We have a draft that's pretty far along and it looks like that's going to be it. In the meantime, the purpose of bringing the
ADU piece forward is because right now we're totally um following the state that that has overridden our our ADU bylaw that is here in in town. Um we have worked with town council on that piece of it. We can
do that totally separate from the other one. So that's why we're trying to bring that one forward to you on the 12th. Um we can have the initial discussions and then we would have the the um the public hearings in February sometime for that.
Realistically um I would say that the West Chatam Neighborhood Center is not going to be on this town meeting. you won't make the you won't make the timeline for it. If you bring it exactly as it was presented
last year without with even you know without any changes at all realistically it's probably not going to pass. Um there hasn't you know we we don't have enough guidance just yet on how to move that forward. We need to do
the ADU piece of it so you don't have to keep following the state guidance exactly as it is because that's made for every town, every city and town. It's not made specifically for you. So that's why it's so important we do the ADU one first. I understand what you're asking. I will try to see if I can get some
basic even if I get a write up from Gloria about it that we could start your meeting with at the on the 12th and then she will come on the on the 26th to to give you additional guidance on that so we can move so we can move West Chadam ahead. But realistically that is not
going to be on this this town meeting. Um what I'll try and do with with working with um with Gloria and the community development staff is between now and then I'll go through and try to get this into a form that that focuses
us on the issues that we have concerns with for the meeting on the 26th. I mean, if there's things that are outside of that, you know, like uh uh the tiny houses and tiny lots that may not be a uh anything that's relevant that would affect the West Chad Neighborhood
Center. I'll try to get things focused the right way for that meeting. So, I'll I'll try to do that with uh some prep meetings with with uh with Gloria. Um Charlene, >> I'm good with that. >> Okay. Bob, yeah. Uh, Katherine, you have
uh some any questions or comments about my suggestion? >> Um, no, I think it's all good. I just I would like to just clarify. Forgive me if we've already discussed this, but when we when we say now that we've got
the draft, which is almost a final draft of the um um seasonal community law, this is the draft that of the law at the state level. Is that correct or is this >> That is correct. That is correct.
>> Okay. the ADU one that we're bringing forward is our draft that we've been working on with town council. >> So, what I will do is I will send that one out the very beginning of January. So, you have a little bit of extra time and I'll send along with it the draft of the seasonal communities that we have
from the state. So, you can all use those two at least to look at to look at that first piece. >> Okay. So, the draft law from the state, it's not law yet. Is that correct? It's a draft. >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
>> The seasonal community draft law is not law yet, but it would it's possibly going to become law at the level of the state. Is that correct? >> That is that is correct. >> Okay. >> And then ultimately the I thought it was
already a law. These are the regulations. >> These are regulations. >> I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. >> So it is the law. These are the regulations. So, what our I'm I'm just wanting to get straight clear what our process is. Our process is now to take
the West Cadam um proposed bylaw amendment and integrate whatever we need to from the proposed changes in the regulations of the state law regarding seasonal communities. Is that correct?
>> That that summarizes it very well, Katherine. >> Okay. So because last meeting as I recall and Frank was one of the proponents and I'm just saying this to be clear um we had I got the I I don't
recall I think there was a kind of consensus of the board although not a formal consensus that we would hold on making any changes in the Westtown Neighborhood Center bylaw and just put it through as it was put through last
time. But now we're going to change that direction and say that we are going to consider what changes do we need to make in the West Chatam Neighborhood Center proposed bylaw amendment based on the fact that we now have the draft
regulations for the seasonal communities law at the state level. Is that correct? >> Yes. And I I think the important thing on this is many of the if not most of the components in the seasonal community
resol regulations have to do with the residential side of piece and that was the one that we were challenged with in getting to where we where we are today on it. So, I think that since that's such a significant part of the bylaw, I
think it would be important to make sure that we're not doing something on what was in the original draft with what is stated in here. And I'm I welcome the board once we get this to them to actually take a look at this and see where they see some of the issues are.
and I'll ask Gloria to be specific about where she would make recommendations on how it would be adjusted if it needs to be adjusted. >> Okay. So, basically, so I'm just being clear that we're we're changing our strategy here, which is I agree with the
change that we're going to look at the regulation the draft regulations. What does the state need to do to make those draft regulations the regulations? Is there a process that has to be gone through at? >> Well, we were supposed to be getting the
finalized regulations by the end of the fall. So, um, you know, they're still not approved at their level. And maybe you won't have to make any changes, but you have to look at your West Cadam >> bylaw with those things in place since the town voted for seasonal communities
designation. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we're changing. So, we'll take a look at it. Um, but changing that strategy means, and I think Christine is right, that we probably will not be able to bring West
Chadam Neighborhood Center proposed bylaw amendment before annual town meeting again for 2026. >> That is correct. >> We will probably >> We will probably need to wait till 2027. >> I I just want to be real here so we know what we're doing.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, I agree with Chris that that's what it probably means. >> I guess the only thing I could suggest is like take let's take this meeting at a time. I'm hopeful that after we meet on the 12th, go through the ADU bylaw, we can advance that. Okay. Uh we'll see
what happens when we get information, the specific stuff on how these regulations um the uh the residential side of it might be adjusted. And I'm I'm looking for um help from Gloria and and the community development staff to make
recommendations on what those might be. Uh and then we we can make the adjustments then after that occurs. But I think we have to have our discussion back and forth to understand what they are first before we say yeah let's go with this or or you know
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I I agree, Mr. chair, but I just it might it might mean that we will need to make some changes to West Chatam Neighborhood Center and that we may need to delay bringing it
>> to annual town meeting with those changes um to 2027. So, but I think that if we do need to make changes, we should make them and that is a better course of action. >> Okay. Um Warren, you have more comments.
Well, first off, I think uh changes that are needed to comply with the law townwide >> are priority one. >> Yep. Right. >> Has to be done. ADUs in particular. Um however,
if I take the perspective of looking backwards and saying, look, we almost got our bylaw approved last year. We should have had it approved. We didn't explain >> why it was there and we didn't adequately address all of the misinformation that was put forward by
those opposed to it. Um, if it had been approved, then it would have to be amended to comply with the new law >> and we would be including that by law along with all of the other zoning by
law in town. Well, probably with separate articles though, right? >> Perhaps with separate articles, but it would need to be amended. Um, it would seem to me that that has to go forward. But it would seem to me we ought to be
going right back to the voters with the West Chatam neighborhood draft bylaw, perhaps with one or two tweaks like uh strengthening the year- round housing requirement andor restrictions on
short-term rentals, period. And with those changes, which could be done very easily, anything else that needed to be amended in there to comply with the law would be done by virtue of the bylaw being
adopted townwide. It doesn't seem to me we would need to necessarily separately address the new uh seasonal community bylaw or excuse me the ad ADU aspect of the
townwide bylaw change separately from that that is in the West Chadam neighborhood center. >> Um if we if there were a conflict well clearly the townwide bylaw would govern Right. >> Um
>> I would prefer we wait to find out what is in the bylaw. >> I would agree too, but what I'm hearing is what we're talking about is uh 2027 at the earliest that we could get a West Chatam Neighborhood Center bylaw >> and that may very well happen. I think
until we hear from Gloria and we see the language, right, >> we honestly don't know what needs to or should get changed in the West Cadam, >> right? um bylaw. >> I would hate to bring it forward this year and then have to bring it back in a
year to do all kinds of amendments to it. People won't be happy with that, >> right? >> Um >> I'd actually be happier with going forward with the West Chadam neighborhood bylaw perhaps tweaked with the way we think it might be best and
then going forward a year later with the town >> the table. Excuse me, Warren. >> Yeah. Um, for the next meeting, I know you're going to get us the draft ADU bylaw, which is totally separate from the whole seasonal thing. >> Correct. >> We're talking apples and bananas here.
Not even the same shape. >> Um, so if we can, you're going to provide us with that. You're also going to provide us with the draft regulations thus far for the seasonal communities. Y >> can you also send us the latest and
greatest draft of the West Cadam um bylaw just so we have that so you know because I'll start looking at it and see where I think changes should be made and then the presentation that we'll have the 26th I think >> 26th >> of January I think will be very
informative >> y >> um if we still don't have the final regulations we really can't move forward with changes to the West Cadam bylaw. It would, in my opinion, it just would be
>> not foolish, but just not not smart planning if we try to do it. >> I and I want to just put a little reality into this with the the board members. Um, if you recall, we did a lot
of edits before we finalized it for last year's town meeting. Um, I just want to let you know little tweaks made work. Maybe not for the board members, but I spent a lot of time
working with staff and then it went through town council review. I bet you in two weeks I had town council review four versions of that. So I was shocked I was able to get turnarounds. So even
little tweaks, it goes through a process that we have to do here. And I would not want to advance something without town council given it to go over and and that so that the sequence would still need to be filed. So if we make adjustments, we
make the changes we think are right, we'll work with Gloria and staff about making those adjustments. But then I would like town council to actually do a review on it just to make sure that there isn't any flags that we have. U a lot of times we ask for things that may
not be you know up uh you know uh in compliance with the law and I just want to make sure that we're not doing those hiccups. Uh Mr. Chair. >> Yes, Katherine. Go ahead. Um, so I have a question and maybe I'm
just trying to think if there's any way to expedite the process and I'm just wondering whether on the meeting for the 26th if we could have the draft or perhaps even the final regulations for the state
law. Um, and as Charlene suggested the >> the latest version. >> We'll have those sooner. Catherine, >> no, but the final ones are done yet. That's the piranha isn't done yet, is it? >> But everybody, can you please let me finish? I have the floor.
>> I'm sorry. Go ahead. Let me finish. So, could we have We might get the final ones by that time. Christine just said we were supposed to have them a couple of months ago. So, so we'll need the draft or hopefully the final ones. And
then as Charlene suggested, um the version of the West Chatam Neighborhood Center that was brought to annual town meeting 2025. Would it be possible for staff to also create a draft of what they feel in
their professional opinion should be any tweaks or edits made to the West Cadam Neighborhood Center bylaw based on the current regulations of the state law for seasonal communities that might expedite our process. So, I'm going to ask that
question of Christine if that would be possible and it could expedite our process. That's all I'm suggesting. >> Christine. >> No, I'm Charlene. >> Oh, Charlene. That's right. I'm sorry. But if I I understand what Katherine is
asking for, but as somebody who's been in Christine's position for a long time previously, it it's it's a waste of her time and staff's time in my opinion to write
something or draft something that may be that takes a it takes a lot of concentration and and you know It just I would rather have staff working on
other things for us like uh the rules and regulations we've been talking about until we have a solid knowledge of what the regulations are going to be for the senal communities. I would hate for staff to to use their time unwisely
and to speculate on what may be is, you know, I may win the lottery tonight and you'll never see me again. You know, I don't think that's going to happen. But, um, you know, I would just I would rather have their time spent more wisely
on things we know about, not what may be. M >> I would agree with you, but it sounds as if staff time is already being spent to draft a townwide bylaw >> based on what we think the regulations
will require. >> No, no, not at all. No, >> not at all. >> Oh, then I misunder the >> No, I would agree with >> accessory dwelling unit only. That's the only thing that has been worked on >> with u community development. hope that there would be some consideration for us
going forward as soon as we get ADU squared away uh to not wait another 12 months in order to get the West Chatam Neighborhood Center re uh in front of the voters again with only a few tweaks that are needed to comply with the new law. Well, well, from what I understand,
there were two parts to the law. That was the seasonal community piece plus the ADU piece and they're they're somewhat independent of each other. the ad ADU regulations have been finalized. Correct. That's the reason
why all of that work has been done on that bylaw uh with town council. That's why it's ready. All right. >> The other regulations are not finalized yet and that's why we're in the process of that. And I think uh uh Charlene, I
agree with you. I think we have not given guidance about what things we should focus on on that. I would like to see what two, three, four things that are in here that are important. We usually are very opinionated on this and I think we'll give our opinion about
what things to focus on and what to work on. Now, that's going to be probably a little bit of my work that I'll go and do with uh with Christine and uh anybody else with town council to try to reformulate what we have there and bring
it back for discussion and review by the board board members. That's that's what I'm looking forward to doing. It's going to keep marching along. I'm not I'm not suggesting we don't march along. I think that this is an important element to include though. If we voted on this as a
community for seasonal communities, I think we need to include components of it that make sense for us here. Uh Katherine, anything else? >> Yeah. Um thanks Charlene and Mr. Chair. I um I agree with what you've said. Um,
I was just trying to see if there was some way we did not need to sacrifice bringing West Chatam back to annual town meeting in 2026. Um, I'm going to ask again Christine the question. We have the draft that we
think is the final draft of the regulations for the state law on seasonal communities. But what you do we feel it's 100% sure that we will get the final statement of the
regulations cuz cuz then how does the board feel if say it just stays in this state that it's a draft of the regulations for the state law and we don't bring West Chadam back um before annual town meeting um in
2026 and we've never received the final regulations from the state. So that's another possibility, a possible scenario. And I think that's a scenario we want to avoid.
Um, but I'm again I'm asking the question I'm asking Christine what she thinks the the likelihood. Well, I I think realistically if you look at the history >> in town here, the last few things that have been brought forward
>> too quickly a second time have not ended very well. There are examples of that at town meetings, right? Where there there have been, >> you know, where they have failed miserably. So, I want to make sure we don't set you up to do that. I know you've all been working on this for a number of years, >> but that that is one of my main
concerns. I would also say >> you know we're totally at the the mercy of the state. They have to finish the seasonal communities piece. The town has already >> already accepted that designation. So we're going to be moving, you know, with that. We're taking forward the things
that we can take forward. The other thing is you have two very large projects that are, you know, going through review processes at the ZBA right now which are going to play into all of this. And until people know exactly how that all works out and things, um, you know, they're going to
be a little bit hesitant to to, you know, move ahead with some of these other things. It might change some of the things within your plan, right? Um, so >> yeah, >> I don't think it's advantageous to for you to move forward at this time. There's too many unknowns. I know that
you're all very anxious at this point to move it forward, but >> I would proceed with caution. >> Okay. and >> okay well I really want to go home but just want to emphasize >> that nothing we do is easy.
>> Yeah. >> But uh and the idea that we should pick off a little piece of this because we can do it now without considering the global interactions between this one and the and the seasonal seems to me
>> to be a little shortsighted. I I just I I guarantee you there are going to be things in that seasonal regulation that will affect how we make decisions about the ADU. And I so I just don't want to run through one and say, "Oh, we we got
to get that one done." >> Well, so what I would say to you is if um as we look at it, you can say, you know, at the next meeting, you can say, "I think, you know, there are too many things because you'll have both pieces to move forward." The only thing I'm saying is you got to give us the
overview of both of them before we start talking about the one. Don't run the >> through us because they're going to interact. >> And and if I might, Currently, our ADU bylaw is not in compliance with state law. >> That's correct. >> And we need to correct it.
>> That's correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. With that, >> thank you. >> All right. We ready to close out our meeting tonight? >> Ho ho ho. And I move that we Oh, wait, wait. >> What do I have here? To planning board.
Am I supposed to read this? >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. I didn't know um to the plan board. Thank you for all that you do for our town. How happy holidays troop 71 Boy Scouts.
This Bayberry candle comes from a friend son on New Year's Eve. Burn it down to the end. for a ba bayberry candle burned down to the to the socket will bring joy to the heart and gold to the pocket. >> So this came from uh in correspondence
it came from Thaad Eldridge. So you're each supposed to take one and now you can close. >> Okay. >> I I just would like to um take a moment to remember Bob Duncin. >> Oh absolutely. was
quite the uh town asset and it's really a shock. >> So, take a minute. >> Wow. I'm sorry. >> He didn't know. Didn't know. Okay. Well, uh, can I have a motion?
>> Move to adjourn. >> Second. >> I'll do a roll call vote. Warren, >> approve. >> Bob, >> approve. >> Charlene, >> approve. >> Uh, Bob, >> approve. >> And Katherine, >> yes, I approve. >> And Arts Brew, I approve. And the time
is 8:20 p.m. >> Excuse me, 6:20 p.m. I