[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] [Music]
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the October 14th, 2025 meeting of the Chadam from a select board. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the
meeting, please notify the chair. Seeing none, pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28th, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extending certain CO 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. Massachusetts
General Laws Chapter 38 Section 20 until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Cadam Select Board is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would
like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 1508-945-4410 conference ID 203 386491 pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the
posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Chattam TV Xfinity channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide real-time access. We will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible.
First order of business is to establish a quorum. Ms. Davis present. Mr. Dykens present. Mr. Matters present. Mr. Smith present. And the chair is present. So we have a fairly long agenda tonight, but we will begin with the approval of three sets of minutes. the first of the set of minutes
from October I'm sorry August 19th 2025. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Is there a second? Second. Uh I have a couple of corrections. Um on page seven. Um
second full paragraph, second to last line. uh at the beginning where it says the subsidizing agency. I think it I think it should read the sponsoring agency. I didn't check the video. And then in the next paragraph,
um the sixth line, I'm sorry, the fifth line, comments are not binding on the COA. I think the word not is missing right in the middle. That's what I had. Yeah, it's critical.
You see that Kathy? Okay. And then on page 10 um second pull paragraph fourth line where it says the position of the chair. I should I think we'd want to insert the ZBAH here. I think that's what he was
referring to. And then um finally on um it's the fourth paragraph from the bottom where it says the board reiterated the process that got these projects to this point. I would strike the word board and just say
some board members reiterated the process. That's what I have. Any other corrections? Okay. Seeing none, I'll call a vote. Miss Davis, I miss Mr. Dykins. Hi. Mr. Meadows. I Mr. Smith I
and the chair votes side five to zero so approved. Next are the minutes of September 16th 2025. Move the minutes. Moved and seconded. Any corrections? I have one.
Thought I had one. Yes, I do. Um very very last paragraph on page 12. There was discussion about collaborating with the Chattam Bar in to expand the sidewalk. I would insert onshore road
at the end of that sentence. Jeff, you had one. Yeah, we just need a vote on page 14. Just it's minor on on unadj. Need votes. Yes. Thank you. Yep. Okay. None. No others. So, I'll call the role. Miss Davis. Hi.
Mr. Dykin. Hi. Mr. Meadows. Hi. Mr. Smith. Hi. And the chair votes. Sorry. The final set is the are the minutes of September 30th, 2025. Is there a motion? Motion to approve and a second. Second. Any corrections?
I have three. Um, page six at the bottom, second to last line after the word overlay, I would insert at the upcoming budget summit.
See that Kathy? Page six, la second to last line, overlay after insert at the upcoming budget summit. Page nine, um, second full paragraph, concerns are expressed about the letter from attorney
Ford. I would put in parenthesis, a similar letter was received from attorney Kanaga. Close parenthesis. And then on page 13, um, up at the top where my name is listed and Mr. Meadows
seconded and there's a roll call. I think we should just clarify what that was. Uh, after the word a phrase roll call, I would insert to specify the term of appointment of Miss Smith. There were two votes taken. Any other corrections?
Okay. You had that, too. I had that. All right, hearing none, I'll ask for I'll call the role. Miss Davis, hi. Mr. Dikkins, hi. Mr. Meadows, hi. Mr. Smith, I and the chair votes side. Next, we have public announcements and agenda item
request. The chair has two. The first is um related to um the vacancy on the assembly of delegates position as a result of the resignation of Randy Potach. And today was the deadline for applications. Today at noon
we have three applicants and uh we have a short window. We have to get um uh the appointment made and interviews conducted the appointment made and the certification letter to um the assembly by I think the 23rd of September. So I
would just uh this is just a scheduling matter. So it's okay within the open meeting law. I would just ask the board, what is your pleasure about scheduling an interview session and um a vote? Did you want to do it? Um
the next available board meeting 18th is the what? The 18th. Um well, you have the budget submitted on the 21st. So it's too late. That would be too late. So the question is whether we would want to my suggestion would be to consider so that
everybody could attend maybe on an early morning meeting we'd interview the three candidates and vote on what date again whatever whatever you'd like to do on what date did you say the 8 well we have to have this by the 23rd
right the 23rd is the 21day deadline per the Cape Cod commission's or the assembly's charter so it would have to be prior to that date. That's the day we must notify them of your selection. Yeah, we have to get it. We can email
them a certificate. So, what what is what are your thoughts about when you'd like to meet and do this? I have to do it before the 21st. Okay. And the morning the morning of the 20th is 20th would be good. Yeah. What day of the week is that? That's a Monday.
Let me just check my Yeah, that looks good for me. Corey, does that work for you? It appears so. Yeah. Stuart, that should work. What time would you like to do it? Um,
I get up early. Joe would I mean, not Joe. Shireen would do it at 4. I would I'd do it at 4. Um, I would, but uh wouldn't do that to other people. So, um, 8 a.m. 8 a.m. 8 o'clock is fine with me.
Okay. With Corey Stewart, it's okay. So, we will have a meeting of the select board to both interview and make the appointment on um October 20th at 8 8:00 in the morning. We'll do that uh wherever we can probably at the town offices.
It will be a public session. The second announcement has to do with the um center for active living project. uh in light of the discussion last week when we had an update on the progress of the design work and uh considering um the challenges facing the town with respect
to the design work and pricing. Um um I've been engaged with um the town manager and um the chair of the council and aging board in discussing how to proceed. Uh and we've had some input as
well from select board member uh Smith with suggestions and uh with that in in mind uh the town manager will be appointing um a working group uh to interface and interact with the project
team which includes the um the project manager for the town and the um design um and the design consultant as well as staff and uh I'm going to turn to Jill to announce that this will be known as
the um seal um building working group. So Jill. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so uh in speaking with you uh putting together the working group of five members that I think that would work um great with the
project team to give us input and guidance. And I'm looking at the chair of the COA board. Um the chair of the friends group as well, a member of the of a a member representing the general
contractor or a builder. And um oh, of course, uh Stuart Smith to serve as uh the select board representative. And then I have one one more representative. I'm I'm looking to um seek concurrence. This would be um held in compliance with
the open meeting law. It would be posted and we're looking to have a first meeting early next week. Certainly um have a date by tomorrow or Thursday so that we can post the meeting. So again, it's a it's not necessarily a town
manager working group. It's a C valve building working group to hopefully get us to where we know where we need to go and in time for it to a bid could be issued that reflects the appropriate design. Thank you. Uh and it's important to get it in place and the town manager has the
authority to appoint point the group. So and I appreciate uh Mr. Smith will willingness to ser serve on this. I think that's important. I will continue to be I am the liazison to the council on aging board. I'll obviously continue to monitor this at the regular meetings
of the council on aging board. Any other announcements or agenda item requests? Mr. Dykens. I have two, Mr. Chairman. The ADA the uh committee for individuals with disabilities has asked to reduce their membership from 7 to 5 and they took a vote at the last meeting. So, they'd like to get that on our agenda and seek
our approval. Um difficulty getting quorum, etc. So anyway, and then uh we have a beautifification committee meeting at Kiko Park tomorrow morning, I believe, at 8. It's 8 or 9. I got to take a look. But the beautif Yeah, the beautif Thank you. The beautifification committee will want some time going forward. You're likely to get a request
from either Angela or or or me or um but in the near future, they want to get in front of us um with their plans for kind of the front third of of Kool Park and and vet it with us to see what their thoughts are. It's pretty exciting and um I think everybody look forward to that. So anyway, it's coming. I don't
have a date to to ask for, but they want to go on the agenda. The first item we can probably take care of at our very next business meeting. Sounds straightforward. Any other me any other announcements or agenda requests from the board? Any from the public? Yes, Jackie.
Yes, you have to come to the podium and please identify yourself although we all know you. Hello everyone. uh Jackie Zbrat Long Moni Regional School Committee, also resident of the town of Cadam, and I am also here as a liazison for the school
committee to the Chattam Select Board. So, thank you. Um I just wanted to let the community know as well as the select board that we are working um with a our school committee to hire a new superintendent this year as this will be
Dr. Carpenters's last year with us. Um so there are certainly large shoes to fill. Um we have hired a um a firm through mask to help us um with this and we will have um many community forums
which is mainly why I'm here tonight to make sure the community knows that there will be an opportunity for them to come listen ask questions and learn more about the process and be part of that um discussion and decision um as it directly impacts all of us. We have a lot um coming forward for the school
committee and for the district in the coming years. So, it'll be really important who fills um this position going forward. Um the there is a survey online currently which closes on October 20th. Um and that online survey
basically gives uh staff, students, alumni, families, community members an opportunity to share what the qualities they feel the next superintendent should possess. Um that will close on October 20th. You can find it on the Monoy Regional School website. The first community forum will actually be this
Thursday, October 16th. Um there are three parts to the forum. One will be during our kids jsum hour at the high school and that will be for students who will be able to participate in the forum and again this is run by U mask. Uh there will be a second one which will be
for our staff and that's 3:30 to 5 at the Monoy Regional High Library. And then the most important one will be 5:30 to 7 o'clock and that will be at the Monoy Regional Middle School auditorium and that will be the opportunity for all other community members or anyone who wants to repeat maybe students or staff
want to go to that one as well and that will be a forum open and run by mask for anyone to contribute and ask questions at that time. Um, future community forums will be announced, will roll out um, after that and they'll be publicized on our website and I will do my best to
either be here or let the select board know um, to let the community know when and if they can um, participate. There are als there's also an online um, application for the screening committee. So, if anyone is interested in being on the screening committee, you still have an opportunity to go online on our
website and apply and um someone will be in contact with you um for the application. And I believe that is about it for now. Our timeline is pretty tight um just so that we can be as competitive as possible. So, um it's looking like
December 18th as of right now is when we will vote to appoint the superintendent. So, it'll be really important to have attendance um from community members as much as possible from here on out. And that's all I have. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. Any questions?
Yeah. Any questions? So, thank you very much for coming with that. Thank you for your service and to your colleagues. Yep. Thank you. Uh for the town chat, I'm on the school committee. Um any other public u uh announcements or agenda? Yes, sir. You have to come to the podium and identify
yourself. Hi, my name is Chris Ray. I live in North Chatam. Uh even though I don't sound like I live in North Chadam. Um it's I uh uh very timely that you were clearing the minutes from the 19th of August because this is about the
residential tax exemption. Um you guys have been clearly mulling this for quite a long time which is great. Uh, and I now feel like someone who's joined a conversation late in the party and is trying to catch up.
Um, I'd like the the select board to consider an agenda item for a future meeting that will allow the board to present the issues that led to the RTE proposal. And to set out why the next steps are what they are. Uh, this is especially important because
I see the board has changed its position recently. So that I think that's you know what what's been accepted by you guys for a while is now you know changed. So the people that I've talked to
because when I read this I talked to as many people as I could locally uh to understand the detail uh the people I've talked to are keen to understand the detail on the population the detail on the population that the board is trying to help.
The general assumption seems to be that it's a combination of working people trying to rent or own a property in Chadam on the wage levels that local businesses can offer. Uh and longerterm residents and retirees who are struggling to stay here. Uh
there may be more than that. That's just my guess. Uh there are hard numbers associated with this sort of analysis. local income levels, balance between rented owned accommodation for working people in Chadam, and differentiating between
struggling and self-sufficient retirees. Most of all, it's important to quantify the numbers of the people that are involved and the degree of difficulty they're experiencing and therefore how much money is needed to provide relief. At that point, the analysis shifts to who is best placed to provide the funds
and through what sort of schemes they could be encouraged to contribute. Perhaps with a long history of discussions about the residential tax ex exemption, this sort of analysis has been done and filed, but it seems that it needs to be dusted off and refreshed
in order to carry the population, many of whom may not be voters, uh, but who will nevertheless carry the burden. Uh this might also serve to head off the prospect of legal action which I know the chair is concerned about.
I have heard the arguments for and against the RTE and I find myself constantly asking why I'm only talking about this one scheme. There are page loads of support schemes in the Massachusetts General Law and elsewhere, some of which come with
funding from outside the town. So the final stage of discovery, if you will, for those who haven't been involved in the annual debate is for the most promising available schemes to be measured up against the need and scored
and winners recommended and voted on or indeed. Mr. Ray, I I just wanted to interrupt because uh we can't have argument pro or con during this portion of the meeting. this is really a an opportunity for you to request an agenda item and you've
indicated what you'd like and that you're looking for an analysis to be placed on the agenda. But I'm trying to keep you this side of making an argument proon con for the for the item. I'm I'm with you all the way.
Okay. If if you're happy with what I've said so far, then that's as long as we understand what you're looking for, which is an agenda item to discuss um the residential tax exemption in terms
of what analysis the town has made or will make about it and the steps that led up to it. That's what I understand your request is. Is that Yes. Fair summary? Yes. Okay. Okay. And if you have something else to add on those in that regard,
that's fine. If you want to make an argument pro or con, I can't allow that during this portion of the meeting. That's under our case. All I've got to say is thank you for your time. Thank you, sir. Any others?
Okay. Um, so the next uh item on the agenda is a public hearing to consider a new entertainment annual entertainment license for the Chattam Omorphium Theater at 637 Main Street in Chadam. And I think we have uh town clerk will
read the announcement, read the notice. Town of Chattam Select Board public hearing notice. Notice is hereby given that the Chattam Select Board will hold a public hearing on Tuesday, October 14th, 2025 at 5:00 PM in the large
meeting room at the Town Hall annex, 261 George Ryder Road to consider a request for a new annual entertainment license for indoor concerts, live bands, and public shows, including amplified live
music for the Chattam Orthium Theater at 637 Main Street, Chattam a mass. All interested parties are encouraged to participate in person, remotely, or via the link on the posted agenda. Thank you. So, we'll open the public hearing and Kevin Mlan from the Oreium
will present uh the application for us. Thank you. Yes, I'm Kevin Mlan, the executive director of the Cadamorphium Theater. Um, in anticipation of our 2026th uh 110 year anniversary being in downtown Chattam, uh we would like to
bring live music to our community. Uh we are working with partnering with the Cape Cod Symphony to bring a uh to be the winter residents of the Cape Cod Symphony Presents uh programming. It would be a series of five concerts over
the course of five months. Uh these concerts would be anywhere between three and five people, jazz quartets, uh small symphony concerts. Um, we uh are trying to get one for December for the
holidays, a swinging Christmas. Um, so these would be small uh like I said, three, five, you know, uh size uh bands, quartets um in the in the main theater. Um they would not be outside, they would
be in this in the main theater. And um we would like to do a series of those throughout the year in addition to also doing uh being able to bring in the Chattam Corral or the Cadam Band, things of that nature. Basically adding live entertainment. We're trying to expand
the arts in Chattam even more than we already do. And um this is a way I think of celebrating our 110 year anniversary. And we hope that the select board um allows us to uh get a year-round entertainment license so we can uh do this. Thank you. Any questions or comments
from the board? Mr. Matters? No. Um, I have no issue with this at all. I think it would be a good b benefit for the community. Um, but just for I guess my own two cents worth is traditionally when some of these entertainment licenses come up for review. The complaint or the concern is always the noise. But in the theater by
design, these rooms have like almost a muffling of amplification. So this noise doesn't really escape the room. It is designed to kind of keep that noise in. Yes. This would be I mean this is this is beyond ideal for these kind of settings. Yeah, absolutely. It's perfectly designed for that. We are bringing in we
bought a stage a small stage and in the main theater and it is designed to be loud uh in that theater as anybody who has seen Top Gun has can attest to. Uh it will nowhere be nearly as loud as that. So So yeah, not an issue with
neighbors, not an issue with sound at all. Thank you. Any other comments, Mr. Dykins? Yeah, I think it's a great idea. It's a perfect venue. Um, we'd love to have more arts and, you know, music music here in Cadam and I just think it's a great idea and I move approval. I'll second.
Any other comments or questions? Mr. Smith, did you No. Any from the public? This is a public hearing. Okay, seeing none. I think it's a fabulous idea. Before my time, I guess historically there was live entertainment at the Chad and Morpium Theater. Yes. For a few years in the late 80s,
uh, Mr. Rugnick had a number of excellent bands come through there. So, uh I don't think we're going to bring back blood, sweat, and tears, but uh I think we'll start with the symphony and we'll work our way out. How about that? I saw Ray Charles. Yeah, Ray Charles. Yes, that was
definitely. Yep. Yeah. A lot of good acts actually. I I think it's a fabulous idea. I'm really thrilled that you're partnering with the Cape Symphony. That's a great We are very excited institution. So, uh, there's a motion on the table. It's been seconded. I will
call the role to approve this. Miss Davis, I. Mr. Dikkins, enthusiastically, I. Mr. Matters. I. Mr. Smith. I. And the chair votes I. Congratulations. Good luck with this. Thank you. We hope to see you all at the Oreium soon. Thank you.
Next item is public comments on the business agenda. Under our rules, we allow contemporaneous public comment, but if anyone wishes to speak now because they might not be here later on, they're entitled to do so. Seeing none, we'll proceed now with uh
the next item, which is the update from our director of public works on the Chattam Wells PAS and drinking water testing and the pumping update for September 2025. Welcome, Mr. Philly. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Rob Philly, director of public works.
um here to give you your September um water report. Um so, uh for the month of Oh, I'm sorry. I put the month of October on there, so I apologize for that, but it is the month of September. Uh Chadam's wells have been pumping 7 to 14 hours per day. The water tanks did
hit the low-level alarm two times during the month. Again, with our watering restrictions, they both fell on a Wednesday and a Friday, so it was pretty consistent with what we've been seeing. I'll skip through to the pictures. Uh training field wells five and eight, the
permanent treatment facility. Uh architectural work continues. Windows and doors have been partially completed. Uh painting in some areas has begun. You see the process piping here on the green sand filters is well underway. Um we're working on some ply and return piping on
the gak filters and the HVAC work is ongoing and we're about to begin electrical work. So things are moving uh along very nicely. So for the this is for you Mr. Dykins. Uh wells 10 and 11. We have received this iron conservation restriction back
from the environmental affairs office. We filed it with the registry of deeds. Uh now we're just coordinating with D on the flushing and testing protocol to introduce well tan water into Chadam's water system. So that hopefully that chapter will be
closed soon. Um, irrigation meters. Uh, this has been a very busy month at DPW. Uh, as you know, um, August 22nd we sent out 635 le letters to residents who were in violation of the irrigation system
rules. Um, 144 had already paid and 491 had not. Since then, we sold over 50,000 in irrigation meters. That's over 250 irrigation meters. Uh 173 meters have been installed. Um so now we have over
1,000 operable meters in Chattam, which is um you know, we're working in the right direction. Uh we also verified that 37 properties who have previously register registered are now in a well. We did weren't aware that they were in a well, but we do know. Um and there's 17
additional properties that have come forward um that have registered irrigation. Now uh when water bills go out this month, 153 properties will be build the higher 8020 split. As of October 6th at the writing of this
report, 148 properties have not paid for a second meter. And at week's end, uh we just compiled those. Today for the male they are getting $300 a day fines. I believe I think the total is around 144
or so. Um DPW worked with the water and sewer advisory committee uh to identify extenduating circumstances for properties who may be temporarily exempt from fines. And some of those exemptions are uh you know plumbers are scheduled but they're still
beyond the 90-day window. Um the owner is drilling a well, but the dr well drillers beyond the 90-day window. Uh there are transfers of ownership and we're just trying to get the property owner nailed down. Um we've identified about a dozen curb stops that when they went to shut the water off, they were
damaged. So we've been repairing those. Um houses are under construction or completely raised and their water is uh cut and capped. Um so they get a waiver for now. and the irrigation is already on a well, but the inspection so we can see if the backflow device has been
removed has been delayed because our folks are straight out with uh inspecting installations and all that. Um we also have corresponding documentation required for each situation. So it's not just uh so we try to be consistent. We brought this before
the water and sewer advisory committee. They were in agreement u with the with kind of the step forward. um and any circumstances that we haven't listed here will go back in front of the water and sewer advisory committee. And I also want to compliment um
administrative staff publicly at DPW who've been handling a substantial workload um from these irrigation regulations and meter purchases, fines, etc. Uh it's been a lot uh a lot of work and a lot to track. So, I just wanted to publicly acknowledge them.
Back to uh the report water sampling. Um things are moving along. Station maintenance EDR is our SCADA consultant. They've been on site doing some upgrade work. Um again, our daily double appointments for
second meter installs. We've doubled up all the appointments. So they they go to one part of town, talk to the plumber, get things going, they jump to another appointment on the other side of town, fix that. And so they're bouncing around. They're uh they're very busy.
Rob, you have unregistered irrigation inspections listed. Can you just touch on that under system maintenance? So, they are they are looking at um basically ground truthing some of the information that we have. We don't have it all. Uh, you know, we have partial
information, but we're we're asking Viole to go out and let us know, do they have irrigation systems installed? Um, they're looking for backflow devices. They're they're just double-checking things in the ground. Thank you.
You're welcome. So, this is Sorry about the formatting. It's coming off the bottom of the page, but this is the September monthly comparison. Um, you can see September 2024 versus
2025. Um, apologize for the bottom of the page being cut off, but um, in your in your packet, it does show about 4 million gallons. We are lower this, uh, past month than we were a year ago. So, that's about 6 and a half%.
Here's that same information in a in a form in a bar chart form. Again, 2025 is the hot pink. Um, you can see almost every day we are uh below what we were last year and that's making up that 4 million
gallon difference. Again, here it is in a in a bar chart form as well. You can see uh the red is uh much lower than the blue uh pretty consistently. And here's the monthly pumping report. Shows the level of effort for each well.
Our minimum day was 1.2 million gallons. Our maximum day was 2.8 million gallons with an average of 1.8 million gallons. And here's the level of effort in a bar chart. And here's the year-to- date pumping
report. Um, again, we've been pretty consistent. Uh, good part of the summer. This last month, we are four month four million gallons less than that month the year before. Um, our total is about 14 million gallons less than last year. So,
um, it's a good sign, but it's, um, you think with the with the drought and the irrigation restrictions, it would have been more. Um, but we'll take what we can get. at this point it's it's it's still less. And then uh here's the bar chart showing uh the year-to- date. Uh expect that bar
all the way to the right to increase soon as well 10 begins to pump into the system. I don't have an exact date on that yet, but we are working towards it. And here is the unmetered water usage.
Uh we still are flushing um and blowing off as um as we are replacing some of these curb stops and and things. We just have to uh flush a little bit more frequently uh just to prevent dirty water uh calls and complaints.
And here's the 5-year pumping comparison for the month of September. Um you can see for gallonage um we're a little on the high side, a little higher than average. Uh but for pumping hours we're not doing too bad. So um
nothing else to report there unless you have any questions. And here's the uh here's the not good news. So um our seasonal decline on the observation wells continues. I know we just had three days of steady rain and
it's not enough to really make a a dent on here yet. Um I checked the graph today and it just you know it really looks the same as it does today. Um I'm sure it helped but it takes a lot of water to come out of a a 9month deficit. So um you know we need more weather
patterns like that to help us. Uh but we are at the lowest uh I went back another 10 years beyond this we're still at the lowest that we have seen. So it's a it is kind of a stark reminder that we are in a drought.
This is Brewster's well very similar pattern. We are lower than we have seen uh before. The Massachusetts drought task force met on October 8th to review the conditions. I don't have an updated map because it wasn't available yet. And what they
recommended was um some areas of uh of Massachusetts are improving. The Cape will remain at a level two. That's what the recommendation was, which is good news. Um I know um Nantucket went to a level three. They were at a level two last month. And um
Martha's Vineyard was at a level zero last month and they're now at a level one. So conditions are worsening out here Cape Cod and the Islands region. Um, again, the rain we just saw is going to help significantly. Um, but we have
yet to see how much that graph changes. Does it really help us start to climb out to that seasonal re recharge or is it a little blip and we continue to decline? You know, only time will tell. And that's all I had for you unless you have any questions. Thank you. Any questions or comments
from the board? Mr. Smith? I Hi, Rob. uh not to be a gloom and doomer, but uh what happens when things really go bad was as far as lack of water. I'm trying to I don't really see the graph up there, but to a level that
below what we have now. So, I mean, luckily in the fall, you know, everybody's shutting off the irrigation systems, the ground is recharging, right? It all depends on how much we recharge, how much we rebound. Um we need that crest to peak as high as it can. um as
you see um the last couple of years that trough is kind of almost creeping lower and lower, you know, um and it's harder and harder to rebound fully. So, you know, this is probably looking at somewhat of a long-term
drought, but you really, you know, you can't predict it until you see what the recharge rates are, what the snowfall and the rainfall we get over the winter season are. Yeah. So, it's not really a plan that I'm not aware of. It's kind of a wait and see and um you know by spring we'll
we'll know a lot more before we start a seasonal decline again. Yeah. And then we can react and and put restrictions in place even further if we need to. Yeah. Your um the training field building is looking quite nice. Uh it's kind of you know you have to have an
industrial building. That's a nice looking industrial building. Um uh one one comment just based on history before you. Uh do you maybe for your next um update do you have a rendition of the sign that's
going to be placed out there if any? I don't believe there is a sign going to be placed there but I will uh check on that. Well even better if there's no sign that's perfect. Um but okay thank you. I just would to add, Stuart, that we have um on the recommendation of the
water and sewer committee, we do have this matrix that they put together for us to consider what levels of restrictions we might want to put in place. Of course, it's largely relevant to the summertime, but but it's a guide for us.
Jeff, I think you had I just a quick question, a couple comments. I mean, the comment is good job on the irrigation meter update. I mean, it seems like a lot of forward progress there, and I was pleased that you thanked your staff. I think it's really important to give them positive feedback and some positive reinforcement. They've got to really be
scurrying in terms of administrative work and follow-up work and stuff. So, I appreciate that. And I just had a quick question on the treatment plan itself. When when do you think that's going to be started up? When do you what's your projection of of uh prior to next summer? Okay. It's got a
spring completion. Um, and things are on schedule, so so we're hopeful. In terms of that graph, I remind everybody we don't get snow anymore. So, so what we really need is, you know, a whole bunch of snowstorms, nor easter snowstorms. And I mean, we just we haven't got any
for years. Um, seems to me in terms of signage, we we there is a sign if you go down to the to uh the uh 10-11 area and then the the treatment plant down off Morton Road, you'll see a sign that's typical that they put out. You know, this is the treatment plant that done by
the town of Chadam, blah blah blah. So, you'll see that. Yeah. You know, I don't wouldn't worry about the political overtones there too much to think. Oh, I I wasn't even looking at that sign. I was looking at the sign that uh uh was put up on the South Chattam uh
was completely unnecessary and um fortunately uh it was moved back so people didn't have to see it as much but I would encourage uh either no sign or something considerably smaller. Morton Road South Chadam Wells or
no the uh treatment plant similar to the one you're building on training field. Yeah. Yeah. That sign the iron and manganese plant you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The one on Martin Road. Martin Road. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's pretty industrial looking for any other comments, questions from the
board. Any from the public? Pray for rain. Don't see any. Okay. Thank you, Rob. We'll go on to our business agenda. U there are a number of items. I think seven. Um the first um uh is um I I
won't read them all at the same time because we will allow um contemporaneous comment. The first is to consider special one-day alcohol permit for the Monoy Community Services Witches Walk on October 25th, 2025 at 524 Main Street, Chadam and Terresa Malone. Uh are you
online? Is that UTM? I am. Teresa, you want to present this to us please? Sure. Um hello. Well, nice to be here. Um we have we're doing our annual witches walk. Um
we have um six locations this year that are participating downtown. The only one that requires a permitting from the town this year is the cookware. Um Rebecca has held the event at least five or six
years in a row, so she's familiar with how we're going to lay it out. Same thing as usual. Um there'll be one location within the cookware where you can uh receive a drink. Uh there's food served as well and activities and games and raffles and things going on in in
that space as well. Um no alcohol to be carried in or out. Um trying to think what else is usually on your list of questions. We have 180 people signed up. It's sold out in a
couple of minutes this year. So, we realize people still want to do witches walk, hoping for good weather. Thank you. Um, other Kathy, the reason I guess this has to be a separate agenda item and not on the consent agenda is because it's an alcohol permit. Correct.
Okay. Thank you. Any questions or comments to Teresa? Any from the public? I don't hear any. Is there a motion? Move approval. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Moved and seconded. I will call the role. Miss Davis. I. Mr. Dykins. Hi, Mr. Meadows. Hi,
Mr. Smith. I the chair of both side. Good luck, Teresa. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next is a discussion with the Monoy Regional School District on the regional agreement. This is an agenda item that was requested by
Superintendent Scott Carpenter. And uh we'll ask the superintendent, Dr. Carpenter, would you please come forward? And I know we have um um one of the members of the school committee at present, Jackie Zbrat Long, and also the business manager, Mr. McMillan, is here
as well. So I know that uh that you had distributed to you a letter that uh the school committee had received from Yes, I should point out yes I did receive a letter we did receive a letter from the chair of the school committee
um relative to this presentation and um um we received um she forwarded a copy of a letter that was sent to the school committee with the response from the school committee uh to um the Haritch select board where they requested um
that the the school committee consider um opening the regional agreement for possible amendment. Right. So, you know, so I'll just I'll try to make this yeah short and brief because it it was a short and brief presentation in Haritch. Um, in July of
2025, the Harvard Select Board had sent the school committee a letter uh asking the school committee to uh to open or to, you know, to review the regional agreement. And I think there was a lot of confusion going back and forth in
terms of what does opening the agreement look like or what does what does amending the regional agreement look like. So uh so the chair of the school committee and I went to the Haritch select board to give a very short really just three slide presentation on what
the process is. Um, so this is that presentation I had, as I was driving to that presentation, I had uh called and left a message with Jill and just said, "Hey, you know, you know, every time we do something in Haritch, we want to make sure we're extending the same invitation
to do a similar presentation in Chattam." So, so this is that presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions afterwards. you. So the regional agreement uh reads that uh that at least every five years the committee will undertake a review of the terms of
the regional agreement. Um and we last did this in in 2021 and we went before uh before town meetings back then. Uh the the language on what is involved in amending the agreement is pretty short
and sweet. It it says that amendments to the agreement may be initiated by one of two things. A uh a threequarters vote with no fewer than 4.5 votes of the regional school committee or a signed
petition um signed by 10% of the membership of the voters of our towns. Um and that uh such amendments then have to go to both town meetings. And it's not it's not a special town meeting. It specifically states that it has to go to
an annual town meeting and it would have to be it would have to pass by majority vote at both annual town meetings, not one annual town meeting and not but and the other one not approve it. And then lastly, whatever changes are even
approved at the in the regional agreement have to go to the commissioner of education to be approved. So uh you know so if we were going through such a process we would want to be frontloading any sort of suggestions or any sort of amendments that are going to be made
with the board of education because the last thing you'd want to do is go all the way down uh have two towns approve it and the commissioner go and say nope you can't you can't do that. So I next just wanted to uh you know
sort of emphasize you know the importance of why. Um so uh you know so I I shared with the Haritch select board that the last time we addressed or or amended the regional agreement was you
know was in in town meetings 2021. And the first part, you know, sort of the first step in that process is I had written uh written a for lack of a better word, a white paper to the, you
know, to our school committee just on uh a phenomena that was starting to really uh be noticeable with our regional assessment and how it played out uh within our school district where it was sort of an economics scenario With
Chattam Elementary getting increasingly smaller and smaller and smaller relative to the enrollment at Haritch Elementary, it was just it was just far more expensive in a small elementary school to provide the same level of services as in a larger elementary school. And the
way the original agreement was originally written, it had Harwitch paying essentially for threearters of the cost based on student enrollment. And and what I had, you know, what I had indicated is, you know, we could see that if we had shifted the regional
agreement to have both towns pay for their elementary school, uh it would be it would be, you know, more equitable when you look at I I think what the intent of the regional agreement was. I don't think anybody when they were launching into the new region, you know,
had intended for, you know, for Haritch, you know, Harwitch taxpayers to be subsidizing the cost of a smaller elementary school. And I think it was a why that resonated, you know, in Chadam. It resonated in Harwitch and it was and we were able to go and get to that
majority vote at both town meetings. So again, you know, my conversation at the Haritch Select Board was to emphasize the importance of the why. You know, that people have to understand if we're going to change the regional agreement, why are we changing it? And what is, you
know, is that why sort of conveyed in a matter that membership from both towns can understand. So, you know, so one of the things that I also wanted to share with the select board was a uh there was a study that
was done back in December 2020. It was the last time the state did this, but they looked at every municipality in the state and how much of mun the municipal general fund went towards education. And I think one of the concerns that that we
had, you know, that we had been hearing in Haritch is that is that the school spending was approaching half of their, you know, of their town's general, you know, general fund. And you know what, you know, what I put in the slide is just to kind of indicate that that yes,
you know, Haritch spends has a lot more of its general fund goes towards education. Um but it's actually less than what the state average is and it's very similar to many of the communities around. Now granted, you know, Chadam, you know, Chadam, you know, Wellfleet,
you know, Province Town are in a very different scenario in terms of just the the demographics that that are starting to populate uh both or each of those towns. Um but generally you know generally speaking the uh the percentage
of of Haritch's budget in this 20 in this 2020 study was uh you know was 41% of its of its general fund where uh looking across the state uh that state average is closer to 50% and I know when
I was off Cape uh the town that I lived in off Cape it was 75% of the town's general fund went uh went towards the schools. Um you know so the long and short is you know the conversation was really focused on okay what is the why and you know
trying to you know trying to emphasize that that why needs to be articulated in a manner that can be heard across you know across the uh you know town lines because you know it you know it can't be just something that Haritch has a you know says okay this is what our need is
it has to resonate in Chadam it has to resonate in Chadam too and be approved in both towns to uh to pass. So, as I said, it was sort of a short and sweet, you know, so the uh um the at the last
school committee meeting uh last Thursday, uh our board went and uh voted to approve a letter back to the Haritch Selecmen just acknowledging that they they had received uh that they had received the letter that they will be
looking at um you know, looking at the regional agreement um and and also encouraging enouraging, you know, encouraging the board to, you know, to bring forward proposals if they're propo proposals to be brought forward. Um, I think the, you know, I think the
awkwardness is that, you know, that you can the agreement is not between the school committee and the two towns. The the agreement is between the two towns. And uh I I think back, you know, if we go back in time to 2020 when I was, you
know, writing that white paper, it was that was something from at least where I was. There was nothing I could do uh as uh as the superintendent to go and make this per pupil spending at Chadam Elementary School and Haritch Elementary School the same, you know, without
drastically reducing services at Chadam Elementary School. and and that wasn't something that I'd felt comfortable with and that my board felt comfortable with. So, you know, so here's a mechanism that we could use to go and at least fix that
uh that piece of the inequity that I saw back then. I think for this one uh you know there's we would need you know the town of Haritch and we'd need you our partners to kind of come forward with what would make sense if there's some sort of
change to the agreement. Um but again uh what we had uh what was in the letter that went back to the Hartwitch Select Board were suggestions like uh it might be beneficial to you know to have our finance director and of course you know Michael McMillan's like I can't believe
he's saying this but actually it came as a suggestion from Michael uh that you know that you know that our finance offices work with the you know the town of Haritches and the town of Chadams and and look at fiveyear projections and a and and occasionally hold joint meetings
where each town can understand where the other, you know, where the other is coming from and what, you know, what the regional school district's needs are. I know when I was off Cape, uh, we had routine meetings. It happened almost every year where we'd have one joint
board where it was actually the the select boards from you know from both Lincoln and Sbury and the uh and the school committee would come together to go talk about that sort of joint you know you know working together and again I I I know that there was sort of the
first step last year towards that but I think you know you know the more conversation that could be had you know potentially the better. So, I'll stop there and answer questions if you have them. Yeah, thank you. Um, I did want to say that I spoke yesterday with the vice our
the vice chair of the school committee, uh, Mr. Schiff, who was the Cadam representative. He had a conflict this evening, but I wanted to get some background on what was happening here when once I got the email from um the chair of the school committee. Um and um
you know I think we're talking largely about process tonight but the letter from the um Haritch Select Board uh from uh to the school committee essentially asks um that um the school committee undertake the process of reviewing the
regional agreement u at this five-year interval that's upcoming. Um but they really don't offer any specifics as to, you know, what they're looking for. Um this sort of gets to the issue of why. I
we can read the newspapers or watch the meetings of the Harage Select Board. I think we have a sense of where they're where they're going. Um but um um I I guess I'll throw it open to uh I I did have a procedural question and then I guess Mr. Dyens wants to talk.
on uh in your slide um um you do talk about the um requirement for majority vote of approval by each member town at the annual town meeting. What happens if um a proposal is put
forward um I guess um does it does it come from the school committee to the towns? Is that how that works? Yes. So let's say Harriidge wants to do X uh and um Chadam doesn't join in that.
So I I think I I think if if you look at the way the regional agreement uh is spelled out, it would have to come from a a voter petition. Okay? you know, so that you hit that 10% threshold that then it gets put onto,
you know, put onto a warrant article in both in both towns or it is, you know, the proposals comes forward to the school committee and the school committee then has to have a majority of its membership vote and and
again, you know, that's and then we're required to put it on Haritch and Chadam, you know, we have four Harwitch, you know, four Chattam representatives on that. So, you know, so to have that, you know, to have 4.5 votes, you'd have to have membership from Chadam that are saying, "Yes, this
makes this makes sense, too. It can't be just you're not going to get to 4.5 votes with just one town school committee members." And then, but if the school committee does have get that 4.5, it has to go on the warrant in each town's annual meeting. Correct?
Okay. And the other way is by petition. So, let's say uh let's take it a step further. So let's say it a proposal is put forward, it's on the warrant and one town votes yes and the other town votes no. So it's not adopted by by that.
Correct. It has to pass at both. And and so in that circumstance, does the commissioner of education have any authority if if he or she determines that the proposal is something that should happen to step in and say to the
town that rejected it, no, I want this approved. It has to happen. I I I don't I I don't know that it's a legal question. the the commissioner can't you can't go and override that.
But I'm sure that if there was something out there that the commissioner, you know, might weigh in with some some guidance. But I can't, you know, but but that guidance alone doesn't, you know, doesn't override the the annual town meeting votes. That's
on the other hand, if it is approved, the commissioner could still reject it. Correct. And there's there are there's there are some things, you know, so the the commissioner's office has a whole legal department, you know, so you could imagine that, you know, that you know,
Harage and Chadam decide they want to change something about the regional agreement, but but the commissioner's office has their legal team says, you know, that's, you know, illegal to you to do that. you know, you could, you know, okay, you know, if you had something in the
regional agreement that threw out open meeting law, you know, they, you know, their legal team would say, "No, you can't, you of course you can't do that, you know." So, you know, so the commissioner's office, you know, a lot of what they're looking at is finance
structures and also just the legality of of the different parts within the agreement. Okay. Thank you. Comments, Mr. Dykins. Yeah, thank you, Dean, and thank you, Scott. Um, you know, I thought you did a a really good job this summer when we you had the kind of the planning session. Um, I attended that as did a
couple select board members from Haritch and I thought you did a great job articulating the need for um really explaining um any change in the agreement as to the why. And you've emphasized it here in this presentation as well. You know, Haritch, I think
they're spending too much money on on schools, but okay. But but but why and and what's the rationale for any change? The other point you made and you we made it recently and at that meeting was whatever either town would like to do with a change in the regional agreement,
keep it simple. keep it so that it's it's understandable and and has a a rationale that both towns can understand that the 2021 change for our taking on our elementary schools was was clear to
this town that there was an inequity and and you explained it well and it passed. Um but the ball kind of my pea brain is in Haritch's court to articulate why they believe they're spending too much and and and again why and what's the
rationale for that. So uh in terms of process um uh kind of waiting for them uh I don't think it's the ball's not in our court to to say that um yeah we agree and and here you go we need to
hear why. And I I thought I think you've done a really good job trying to explain that and also been very clear with and and a presentation of the process needed to make a change in the regional agreement. Very clear. So thank you. One one last point on the amendments
provision. So, as I'm reading that, if 10% of the voters of one of the towns signs the petition, so Harish, for example, because they initiated, they're trying to initiate this, they only have to get 10% of their own voters to initiate a proposal that requires,
right, Chadam to put it on the wall. And again I you know I just keep coming back to the whole piece on why you know whatever that whatever that proposal is needs to be needs to be clear and you know people need to understand it.
Yes. You can you can go and get 10% to go and sign off on anything. Yes I know that. But you have to remember that the other town also has to go and and and I and I shared it with the uh the har select
board. you know, the last time we went to change the regional agreement in in 2021, it's it's not like people in Chadam just stood up and said, "Oh, yes, uh, human, you know, there wasn't a a unanimous vote there. There were a number of
people going up to the mics at town meeting, you know, just with different feelings about the agreement and whether or not that Chadam should take on, you know, more of a financial burden, you know. So it's, you know, so I I think we
need to understand that, you know, that's it's a it's, you know, if Chadam, if the uh, you know, if an amendment has Chadam paying more, I'm sure it's going to easily pass, I would guess, in Haritchtown meeting, uh, how is that
explained in a way that the taxpayers in in Chadam understand what their what their gain is? Okay. I just have one just one followup. to the to your point and my support of your point about keeping it simple that the the approach that has been um
suggested uh from a particular member of the community in Haritch about using assessed values to to to rejigger the regional agreement in terms of the allocation of cost to both town using assessment that's a very difficult complicated
convoluted explanation to bring to town meeting I I so I understand perhaps the rationale behind behind it, but it's just really difficult would be a really difficult one to sell in my in my PE brain. Yeah. So it's it's very complicated and I and I did yeah I did talk a little
bit about that at the at the Harwitch meeting and so you know on this this last slide you know ideally yeah ideally the chapter 70 equation is is an equation that is supposed to be you know
esta it's supposed to establish how much each town is going to have uh you know have to spend on education as a at a minimum you you know, for their, you know, for their towns in the state. And the idea behind chap the chapter 70
equation is to go and sort of equalize this based on, you know, based on a community's financial wherewithal. You know, there there are some significant challenges with the chapter 70 equation. But that's not something that from my vantage point, like I I I
don't have the pulpit to change that one. The select board doesn't have the pulpit. It's, you know, it's the legislature. It's the legislators that need to change that formula and you know and I and I do understand you know you know some you know some that have kind
of written to the har select board you know are have you are coming up with financial situations to I think I I would I would argue to you to address inequities in the chapter 70 equation but the chapter 70 equation I would say
is like advanced calculus and some of the solutions are, you know, are just another form of advanced calculus, you know. So, I I I I do think trying to keep it simple and being able to explain it's going to be important to get something sold in both towns.
From your previous um presentations to us, I remember that the comparative assessed values of the two communities is already part of the um base calculation of the assessment formula. It it's part it's
part of the chapter 70 equation and the the way you know the one of the reasons I think it it is also flawed is that is that for the you know essentially like the top 20% you the 20%
most wealthy communities it treats them as one you as as sort of equal. Um so you know so there's there can be a a vast difference you can imagine even if you're looking at grading you know
there's big difference between an 80% and 100%. Um you know so it's that that difference I think is what's what's flawed. The other challenge with the chapter 70 equation is that it's great if you're looking at it
through a single town lens. So it worked great for Cadam when when it was just Chattam Public or when it was just Harage Public or where it's Mashp or Barnstable. But when you're in a region, it it doesn't account for slight
differences on where you are along that that sort of spectrum. Okay, Shireen, Miss Davis. Yeah, thanks. Um I I appreciate the emphasize on the why and the rationale um and bringing it in that manner. I just have a clarifying question about
the one the amendment the 10%. Were you saying that if Howard brought 10% to um bring that to a vote it would have to apply not just to Haritch but to Chadam as well or would Chadam have to bring 10% on the same
so I I I would have to go get a legal consult to see if it has to be 10% in both towns. Um, but I I can go and that seems like a pretty important like for me to say that another town is going to be able to tell us what we can, you
know, like something like that just seems a little as a citizen's petition that seems a little skewed in my rationale, but yeah, it should be clarified. I mean, yeah, it's a little I can I I'll I'll research and get back to you.
Um, Mr. Matters. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, first first of all, I want to just back up a second and I want to very thank um you know, we've had some meetings leading up to this. Uh select board member uh Dykens and former select board member Shell uh have engaged with dialogue with
leadership of Haritch and um I very much appreciate their past efforts. If anyone who's watched that tape or attended any of those meetings, um you know, the tone has, you know, been a little uncomfortable at times, but I think they uh have stayed um stayed steady for Chadam and uh with Jeff's long
background um is a is a great asset for us. Um procedurally wise, I do think going to Shireen's question, the 10% clarification, I think we need to get clarification on exactly what triggers the town meeting officially. Uh that would be very helpful. And two,
procedurally, um, you know, voters of Chadam, you know, any of voters practically have short memories and they're going to, you know, you're going to bring up some history. You're going to bring up, you know, well, if Haritch,
you know, if Chadam did not join Haritch in the regionalization, what would have been dollars and cents? You know, we town of Chadam put forth the what was the former Chadam uh high school on Crawl Road. That facility there's a dollar amount associated with that. We
brought that to the table. Um you know the the Monoy Regional facilities um Harris get to pull out the property on Siss Road. You know there's a dollar value associated with that. So there's a lot of pieces to some finances that are
going to get brought up that you know and if to the why you know you know you can't just dismiss that. So that's it's going to open up some very interesting colorful conversations and um you know I mean I'm hap we're happy to have some conversations and and and at the end of the day we're looking to figure out
what's best for the students. That that's our ultimate goal. I mean I think we all agree with that but um I want a very clear understanding of why we're going to do certain things. um you know and then you know once we get deeper into the weeds you know not not part of
this conversation but um one one element that has come up to me that has been thrown at me lately and I and it's we're not there yet is you know um school choice and some of the elements associated with that which we'll get deeper into the conversation later but um you know it's it's it's it's uh
there's a lot of history. Thank you Mr. Matters. Did you have any comment on that? I I did myself watch that meeting um when it happened. Um and Mr. Shell and Mr. Dykens did a great job at that meeting and we got an email today from one of our citizens kind of summarizing
what Mr. Dykens had presented in terms of the benefits that accred to the town of Haritch through this merger of the two districts historically. Um any other questions from the board? Any from the public?
Mr. Phillips. Uh Brian Phillips, 374 Orleans Road. Um, I think it's good that the next agenda items kind of that are coming up are relevant to this conversation because, um, I guess case by case, you know, it might seem a little unfair, but, um,
everything is connected and, um, I think things like the water and sewer, you know, agreement should be taken into account for this might not be the most favorable, you know, uh, for Haritch, but then also the affordable housing things coming up, you know, trying to get, you know, families and kids here.
Thanks. Thank you. I think it's important to view these things holistically. We want to have good relations with our neighboring towns and we try to help one another. Um and um so everything should be looked at in context. Any other
comments from the public? I don't see any on the screen. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Carpenter, unless you have anything more to say. Appreciate you coming and and the school committee representatives being here as well. Um, next item on the agenda is is to
consider as water and sewer commissioners additional sewer flow request from for Great Sand Lakes sewer extension from the town of Haritch per the Cadam Harwitch intermunicipal agreement the IMA and um um who is going to present that is
DPW Director Rob Failey. Mr. We also have we have a representative from the go ahead the town of Haritch who's the chair of the Norin Donahghue is the chair of the Haritch board of water and water wastewater commissioners and Mr. Witkim
is also present he's a member of the IMA along with um our town manager and Mr. Badis is unable to be here this evening. He's our other representative on the IMA and the town manager of Cadam chairs that body. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Rob Philly,
director of public works. So, the town of Harwitch has requested additional wastewater flow from the East Haritch service area as part of the intermiss intermunicipal agreement or IMA. The IMA between the town of Haritch, the town of Cadam and the town
of Haritch was finalized in 2017. According to section two of the IMA, uh, Harwitch may expand the East Harbor service area to serve the Great Sand Lakes area subject to the approval of Chadam, which approval shall not be unreasonably
withheld, provided that Haritch shall not extend its sewer system beyond the East Harage service area if the result of such an extension was c would cause Haritch to deliver waste water to Chattam for treatment in excess of 300,000 gallons per day. Unless this
agreement is amended. Thank you. I'm going to jump to this uh this spreadsheet here. Um the Great Sand Lakes area has historically been included with the East Haritch service area. Currently, Harwitch's wastewater system is
operating with a design flow of just under 210,000 gallons. It's a little hard to see up there and I apologize. Um, well, actual flows are approximately 162,000 gallons. So, the 28,000 gallons is in the green on the left, that's the
design flows that D uh requires. Uh, in the blue on the right is what the actual flows are, and they're they're about 162,000 gallons right now. Um, with the planned inclusion of the Great Sand Lakes area, design flows are projected to increase design flow-wise to 245,000
gallons. However, anticipated flows would be more modest, reaching approximately 190,000 gallons per day. So, at the meeting of the Cadam Harwitch IMA Advisory Board of August 20th, 2025, the request was reviewed in detail with
no objections by the Cadam representatives. Um the meeting is uh online. It was a public meeting. Um the water and sewer advisory committee reviewed the town of Haritch request on September 8th, 2025 and reprove approved it by a vote of five to zero. And I just
for the record just wanted to say this is part uh this image is part of the original IMA from 2017. You'll see the yellow highlighted area is the East Haritch service area and then there's a small area in green that says the Great
Sand Lakes area. So that was included in the original request from the town of Harwitch. And just to zoom in, that's the Great Sand Lakes area. It's approximately 275 uh parcels. And so this is a letter that um the Chad
the Harvard select board had written um to Chadam uh requesting the additional flow. Is that it? That's all I have. Okay. Thank you. Uh Rob, I just uh had uh one question. So
just to kind of summarize, so currently the design the design uh flow is um 210 gallons per day, but they're actually only flowing 162,000.
Correct. I mean, in reality, all they're really putting into Chadam now is around 30,000 gallons per day until the rest of East Harri gets expanded. So the so the actual flows really aren't actually happening. They're not. But I think as more
properties become hooked up just just as Chadams would, you know, it takes a number of years to get everybody hooked up. So is it conceivable that the that the actual flow could ultimately forget about Grand Sand Lakes for a moment. Is it
conceivable that the actual flow could approximate 210,000 gallons per day? It's pretty unreasonable and unlikely that it would ever reach that level. Okay. And if you add Great Sand Lakes
in, we the design flow bumps up from 210,000 to 245 and the actual flow bumps from 162 to 190. Correct. And um the agreement says um
um that even though they could add Great Sand Lakes in subject to the approval of the town of Chadam, they could never get in excess of 300,000. Correct. Okay. All right. Just wanted to clarify
that. Any questions or comments from the board? Mr. Smith and then Mr. Meadows and Mr. Dykins. Sure. Thank you. Um I just had a couple of questions. Um the money we
collect from Haritch to you know deposit their the sewage into the treatment plant. Um where does that money where what is that used for? It's for so um there's there's money that is part of
the agreement spread over the nine years that they paid that goes in I don't know if it goes into the sewer fund um it it goes into a capital stabilization account that's the the so-called priv privilege fee of being able to use
our system the operating costs I I think Carrie is on um I thought that went into the the water re I'm sorry the sewer receipts that's correct I think it's around 23 a little over 23% of the operating cost that uh Harage pays it goes into our
fund to pay you know viol pay for chemicals and right yep that makes sense I don't know I would just add that the stabilization fund monies can only be expended on vote of town meetings that correct is correct that is correct yes it is correct
is it a twothirds though I don't I think it's carri saying two3 so Yep. And and what is that money over the nine years? Is that am I did I read it right? Is it 6.7 6.7 million? Yeah.
And that money goes into uh our capital uh cost associated with the sewer. Yeah. It goes into the stabilization account which is designed to support sewer cap sewer capitalization sewer sewer capital projects. Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you. And um I noticed that
uh well first is there not that I'm suggesting it but is there a process to renegotiate um that agreement the agreement we have with Harish? Is there a process? Well Mr. Dykins and I were along with
the town manager were part of the group that negotiated this agreement with Dr. Duncin staff and and consultants. Uh, so I haven't seen this agreement in eight or nine years. I didn't even remember that Grand Sand Great Sand
Lakes was in there. I would assume there's a provision in that agreement that says on the um with the agreement of both sides, you could you could amend it, but because that's typically in any kind of contract, but I don't recall, Jeff, do you?
I do not recall if there's any mechanism to renegotiate it. I mean, uh, it was pretty clear that, you know, we were fairly generous with the 300,000, um, and that they perhaps would never even ever achieve it. It doesn't look like they ever going to,
but I think it's important that, um, the operating costs will cover, you know, help us cover the overall operating cost of the right running the plant. And then the the capital dollars are really important because we had some fairly large expenditures um that have been
voted by the what was the gr the not the big grinder thing whatever that what was it called that was the press the belt filter press belt filter press was four million bucks or five million was it was a big big number and the um okay so the the the 6.7 over
a 9-year period um there's no more of a question uh there's no incremental increase. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I just had a clarification. It was over seven years, but there was an amendment in 2021 that brought that payment schedule from
5 years to seven years because there were so many delays in getting the the sewer implemented in Haritch. Yeah, understood. We've gotten about four or five already from them, haven't we? I think there's one more payment uh this coming spring for I think a million and a half. One and a half. Yeah. Okay. And the and there's there was I didn't
see it anywhere. um that may be there that there's no incremental increases during that 7-year period or interest or anything on the 6.7 just flat flat just as we have increases in operations and maintenance that that would be reflected in our
maintenance costs would but the uh capital was flat. Yeah. I didn't know if they accounted for the you know over seven years the extra sewage flow and the wear and tear on our equipment versus Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um Mr. matters. Um, no, I was just simply going to say,
um, I mean, the request looks within line for the current agreement. So, I don't have an issue with that. I just want to ask this because many many years from now when we're all long gone and the 300 um you know gallons per day um you know threshold that may they may
never reach but obviously we're monitoring it because we're saying like right now they're they're their usage is below what they've kind of allotted for but empty number years down the road if we're starting to hit hit that 300,000. Is there a mechanism to protect us from
not going over it? Um how does that how is that language written or is there a mechanism that says okay once you once you reach that 300 you know there's a moratorium to stop. Um pretty much yeah I mean I don't think they'll they'll never hit it regardless.
Never say never. Yeah, I know. But even even so, we have um you know, all of phase one in Chadam over the next 20 years, we won't even hit that million mark. So, adding the 300,000 from Haritch, we're
still below our our permitted amount of 1.3 million. So, um there there should be no reason to adjust any kind of flow criteria uh at least through phase one. Okay, thank you.
Stuart, did Sharine, did you have something? I don't have anything. Stuart, go ahead. Sure. Um, and I I saw it referenced vaguely somewhere, but is Haritch planning on a treatment plant of their own, or is the plan here? I mean, there was some serious infrastructure put in.
Is is this a this go on forever? I mean, I know the agreement's only seven years, but what's the plan for them building their own, or are we always going to be taking their sewage? This is only for East Harage. Yeah, I understand. Um, we do have a a member of the water
and sewer Harage water and sewer committee here. If if she would be Miss Donnie, if you'd like to speak, please. Good evening. I'm Noren Donghue. from the chair of the board of water wastewater commissioners in Howitch.
Thank you for taking this matter up. Um and hello to the chair and to members of the board. Um as you know this particular agreement only covers East Tower which was as you know intended really for our joint efforts on Pleasant
Bay which is the reason for East Tower which as to future plans uh we have two choices. We can either build one of our own on probably on our property uh where our transfer station is or we can negotiate with some
neighboring towns on the west side of Howitch. So as as you know we did try a few years ago with the Dennis Howitch Yamoth um arrangement and we backed out of that um for financial reasons. Uh we
were we were the smaller partner um in that particular arrangement. So right now we're we're talking with people, right? But but I guess the answer to the question is no like foreseeable plan for a uh treatment plant to for East Haritch. The plan is
not for East Haritch. No, no, the plan is to always use Chadams at the moment. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That's correct. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um any other any comments from the public? Mr. Wickham, did you want to speak? You're a member of the IMA committee.
Welcome. I just wanted to um I was looking and the uh agreement does have a termination. It has language for increased flow. If it ever got beyond 80%, then they have to give us a heads up. 80% of the 300, they'd have to give
us a heads up that that's coming and and there would be negotiations, I I assume, after that. So, the 6.75 million is in the stabilization fund. We use that to fund something at last town meeting a fairly big project and that's town
requires town meeting vote and that's what happens. Then then the operating and maintenance we get 23% or har which pays us 23% including I think 20% of your salary isn't included in that. So thank you David and those improvements
approved at town meeting are that you mentioned um go to sewer improvements. Yeah, I'm assuming that's exactly the big stuff. Great. Thank you. Thank you, David. Jeeoff, just a brief comment. I just uh for our overall
recollection that the one of the strong impetuses or the the motivations to do East Tire, which was to help clean up Pleasant Bay. So that that was a primary I believe it was section 208, I forget, 280, clean up of Pleasant Bay. And that
that was really the motivating factor that to do the deal because we thought it made a lot of sense to help us clean up Pleasant Bay and How fronts Pleasant Bay. Thank you. Okay. Uh we have um uh Elaine Gibbs is online. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. Uh just for
clarification here, uh we signed the contract in 2017 and there were going to be four payments. The first one was on the day of signing and then it was incremental when they first, you know, put in the infrastructure, when they turned on the water, etc. Uh according to Mr. Phale, we've made
they've made three of those four payments. So through 2025, it has in fact been eight years and will be nine years before we get the final payment. And we did not charge interest. And that interest had we done that because there were delays on their ends by technically
four years in terms of construction. Uh it would have been $8.9 million instead of the 6.75. So for any future contracts, I certainly hope that we factor in interest and delays in contracting when we do something like this. I have two specific concerns. Um I
know they're saying that they would never meet the 300,000. Uh but there there first one is that you're all familiar with Haritch East Plaza uh on 137. That's the one with Verizon 400 and Sherman Williams. That's
on 4.6 6 acres and that was sold in December to the Newman Properties of Brooklyn for 11.6 million. Um, and I think that number is reflecting the fact that there are 4.6 acres. Uh, they manage and develop residential and
commercial properties. Uh, I there have been rumors that that land is going to be developed. other developers were looking at it um on a lot of that acreage and that would certainly consume a fair amount of water. So I would ask
that that be remembered by you and considered that that if that gets connected, it may or may not get connected because if all of these things come online at the same time, I I mean I'm surprised that it's only 45,000 gallons, all of those uh residential
properties all up and down 137 um are now on sewer. Uh so it's surprising that that's how low the gallonage is. Uh secondly um about the uh great sand lakes um I am
surprised that that extends that far to the west. Um that is uh 2 miles west of u at the corner store. Uh, but I just want to point out that 2.5 miles further
uh is going to be the location of the Pine Oaks um affordable housing project that's going to have 242 units and it's massive. There are going to be all kinds of facilities on the property and from what I was able to read in the engineering plans that
initially it's going to have an alternative system on the property but eventually get hooked up to the sewer. So, uh, I would hope that we at no time extend our sewer system past this East Haritch boundary which ends at Great
Sands Lake. Um, we've got to get busy on connecting our properties and and saving that because in listening to Mr. um Duncinson the other day uh the DP has limits of 5% on something or five I
don't know what the formula is uh to uh for the effluent in Takaco Cove even though Duncinson thinks it could handle a lot more but I don't want to get to a point where we you know suddenly we need the flow uh for treatment and we can't do it because we've got a contract you
know for 20 to 30 years and I think we have to give them five years notice and buy back the flow uh if um we run into a problem. So I hope you're cognizant of those kinds of things going on here. Um that is a huge area that has been
sewarded and affecting East Haritch and we're we need to get that done in our town. We are way way behind what we had promised our residents and homeowners that they were going to do. We redirected it over to
137 which is less densely populated and a lot of people have not been connected but we're all paying for it. Thank you. Thank you Elaine. Any other comments from the public? I don't see anyone else online. David, did you want to say something additional? Uh make a comment of the previous
speaker. Um the there was an amendment as I think uh DPW director Phley said that extended that seven years to nine years or the other thing was based on the flow. If it reached a certain amount of the flow then that money would would
come due. Well, we haven't come anywhere near that flow. So uh it's really been a pretty good deal. They've been a good partner. Also the east ser uh the East Harwood service area which is part of the agreement which we're talking about tonight. The haritch flow is limited to
the upper muddy creek subwaterhed, lower muddy creek subwaterhed, Pleasant Bay subwaterhed and the Round Cove subwhed and then it states Sandlakes area with Chadam approval required. That's the
only areas that are covered in the agreement. So anything else would have to be uh negotiated or go through the IMA the the committee and then come to you. So, I wouldn't worry about uh the world getting sewer point to our plants. Thank you. Um Stuart,
probably just our world getting sewered is what we're Yeah. trying to hopefully concentrate on. But, um the 300,000 gallons a day. I mean, I just I just find this interesting. Sorry. But why was it so high? Why was that limit so high if we don't seem to be even
getting close to it? Well, the limits are high because of the flow from it's the state or who who it's the design flow from D, but also there are some vacant parcels that are are ready for development that could increase the flow. So, they wanted I believe they wanted to build some
capacity in there. Thank you. Okay. Trying to crystal ball. All right. Decided. So, um no more comments. Is there So, been we're being asked to approve this flow. It's been recommended by the water and sewer committee and um and I would
ask uh if there is a motion move to approve. Okay. Do you want to read the whole motion or uh where is it? It's on page two. I move to formally approve the proposed revisions to the town of Howard sewer rules and regulations originally adopted
May. No, that's the one. I'm sorry. That's next one. This is the one. Oh, gotcha. I move that the town of Chadam approved the town of Haritch's request to include the Great Sand Lakes area within within the East Haritch service area as outlined in the 2017 intermunicipal agreement IMA recognizing
that the projected wastewater flows remain well within the 300,000 gallons per day allocation previously authorized. This approval is based on the analysis indicating sufficient existing capacity and minimal fiscal impact to the town of Chattam. Is there a second?
Second. Okay, moved and seconded. I will call the role unless there's further discussion. Miss Davis I. Mr. Dykin. Hi. Mr. Meadows. Hi. Mr. Smith. I. And the chair votes I. So that's approved. Thank you. Uh, next item is
also related to the town of Haritch on the sewer project. Um, consider revisions to the town of Haritch sewer rules and regulations per the Chadam Haritch intermunicipal agreement. Mr. Failey. Good evening again. Um, yes. So the town of Harwitch has
proposed revisions to its sewer rules and regulations originally adopted in 2021. Because these ru regulations form part of the contractual framework established under the intermissionable agreement between the towns of Harwitch and Chadam, any proposed amendments must be submitted to Chadam for review and
comment in accordance with section 10C of the IMA. Uh the town of Haritch sewer rules and regulations uh were modeled after the town of Chadams and must be equivalent in scope and stringent stringency. Apologies. Uh although periodic updates
are necessary. So the document uh remains largely unchanged from the previous version. uh several formatting updates, grammatical changes, replacement of the term director with superintendent throughout and I have noted some uh more
substantial changes in um in my uh staff report. I can go through those if you chose if you choose. Um at the meeting of the Cadam Haritch IMA advisory board on August 20th, 2025, the request was reviewed in detail with no objections by
the Cadam representatives. The Water and Sewer Advisory Committee reviewed the proposed changes um to the town of Harwitch rules and regulations and endorsed the changes by a vote of 5 to zero at their September 8th meeting. And uh after town council reviewed the
proposed changes, uh there was a recommended change on page 17 under subsection L, the second sentence under number one states exceptions to uh but they should be modified to read examples of instead. Um so subsequently I spoke
to the harish water and wastewater superintendent who agreed with the language change and I'm happy to go through the uh individual edits if you like. Um well I it's in the staff report and you know just by topic I'll mention
that one has to do with um undeveloped parcels. The word vacant is add added. Um there's a section on grinder pumps. I want to touch on that in a second. um solid materials discharged to the waist stream.
There's an additional detail and then there's a section on low pressure grinder pumps or lift pumps uh detailing the type of pump required. The rest of the changes are basically most of the changes are a change in the title of the
um director of uh the sup the former superintendent of the of the Haritch sewer system is now called I'm sorry the former director is now called the superintendent. So that language has changed. Your your the proposal that is
to approve these with the um additional um clarification that was proposed by our town council. That's correct. In in L. Um so that's what it is unless someone wants this in greater detail. The only thing I wanted to comment on uh
because the subject of grinder pumps uh in terms of m the maintenance of grinder pumps is still an unresolved issue in the town of Chadam. And I know the water and sewer committee and the staff are going to be considering that and then it'll come before us as water
and sewer commissioners. We did vote a policy to provide a free grinder pump plus $2,000 to someone that is obligated to um to connect um because of topography or low pressure
and um that's also going to be administered retroactively. But it's interesting when um because this section was highlighted, I note that the town of Haritch is also providing a grinder pump. They're not providing a replacement grinder pump and
the they're making the property owner responsible for all maintenance of the pumping system and for any replacement that's literally in and there's it's something that we might want to keep in mind when we have to address the subject of grinder pumps. Is there any are there
any questions or comments from the board or from the public? Mr. Witcom, did you have anything you wanted to add? Miss Donahghue, did you have anything? Okay. So, I will entertain a motion. This is the long motion that you were going to recite before, Jeff.
Hey, okay. I move that the town of Chadam formally approve the proposed revisions to the town of Haritch Sewer rules and regulations originally adopted in May 2021 with the corrections noted. Although formal approval is not explicitly required, these regulations are incorporated into the contractual
framework governing discharges into the Chattam sewer system from East Haritch. Therefore, it is in the town's best interest to review and endorse the updated regulations as modified and discussed. Is there a second? A second. Okay, I'll call the role. Ms. Davis.
Hi, Mr. Dyken. Hi, Mr. Meadows. Hi, Mr. Smith. Hi. And the chair of both. Thank you. Okay, we're all done. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you Miss Donahghue for coming here tonight. Uh, thank you Mr. Quitcom.
Okay, next item. review of seasonal communities draft regulations and consider submitting a letter of comment. This is a select board agenda item request by Miss Davis and I know we have a um comment period deadline that's
that's upcoming. So this is very timely and I know there was a presentation at the um Cen Islands Municipal Leaders Association. Miss Davis and Mr. Dykins were present at that to hear it. So uh Shireen I guess I'll turn it over to you. Sure. Um, so, uh,
I should, I'm excuse me, I should also add President Gloria, um, McFersonen on this, too. Um, she was here. She, um, had to leave. Had to go, but it looks like Katie Dunovan is on, too.
Okay. So, Katie Donovan is on. Okay. Sorry. Sure. Thank you. No worries. Uh, yeah. So, the uh seasonal communities um um uh draft regulations are being um considered um for public comment in the next couple of
of weeks. It's pretty timely. Uh the public comment period ends late October and the final regulations will be presented in November um for final approval in December. So, this is moving pretty quickly. Basically, I just think it's important that since we have um you
know um talked about it and and had um uh made some recommendations to adding um in some commercial and essential other essential workers into the mix of the seasonal communities. you should actually write a letter in support or a
comment letter that that if anybody has any issues with any of the um any of the proposals that you see in the regulations to that we address them and um you know just write a a letter in support that that's all I really have the the
presentation that we saw was Mark Welsh Walsh made the presentation on the different um pieces to it um basically um there There were some byight um zoning um laws, some AMI changes. Um
there was the ability to set up regional trusts. Um address zoning uh tiny houses and undersized lots. I'm just like Katie, you can jump in if you want. Um but this would be an opportunity for us
to uh to uh look at this in a in and just bring some comments together. So, all I really like to do is have staff just pen a letter have like either the chair look at it and then um sign and send it forward for for the comment
period. Thank you, Shireen. Katie, did you have anything to add to that? Um there's something Mr. Chairman something in the staff memo suggesting um some revisions that you might the town
might want to propose, right? Yes, that's correct. So, if you'll see um Gloria did a pretty comprehensive memo um at the conclusion of the staff report with the suggested motion, she had made some recommendations for the board to consider including um in its
comment letter to um the executive office of housing and livable communities. So, if the board is amendable to that, um we can work on a letter to um to get up there by the deadline. And there's something about undersized lots that you're comment the
suggestion as we comment on that. Yes. Um on the comments under undersized lots is recommend that the regulations add language and either 76.02 definitions or 76.04 zoning requirements that undersized lots
are those that are in existence at the time of adoption of the required undersized lot zoning bylaw. This would prevent the creation of new undersized lots. And then the second recommendation is that language is added to allow a municipality to establish a minimum lot
size for undersized lots. Although for lots that are not on sewer and are subject to wastewater regulations, Gloria states that this will not be much much of an issue. Okay. Um I did want to say that um there are two
things here that one I I will just mention for the sake of mentioning uh in the draft regulations they deal with the residential exemption. I think this is in the statute that the town could
go from 35% up to 50%. That's how I read it that that was one of the recommendations that's in the regs. I mean, I'm I'm not going to oppose these because that's in there, but I just point that out. One thing I did have a concern about has to do with the tiny tiny homes. So, the way
I the way this works, as I understand it, um the the town is res is required within 18 months, unless that's moved to 24 months, to change its zoning bylaw, to allow
a tiny house, which is defined as a 400 square foot house, I think, to be placed on any lot within a single family zoning district of right as of right. They don't need to get a special permit or
variance. That's how I'm reading this. Is that correct, Katie? Yes, that is correct. Um though in conversations with our building commissioner, um the the way that they're looking at this is that tiny home, somebody could actually build a
tiny home on a conforming lot today as long as it met building code. So the size um on a conforming lot doesn't matter on a conforming lot, right? So that um the size doesn't necessarily matter as long as it meets building code and all
other state code requirements, right? So instead of a 15 foot side yard, they might have a 50ft sideyard. But um what about a non on a non-conforming lot? How is what happens there? If can they just go in a Right
now, if you wanted to build a house on a non-conforming lot, you'd have to get a special permit or variance depending on the topography. Right now, you'd if you were going to try to build on a non-conforming lot now
that didn't already have a house on it, you would need a variance. Um I'm just looking through this. I apologize. Um, Gloria um wasn't able to stay at the meeting, but I don't believe that there's a requirement for undersh tiny
homes on undersized lots, although I suppose a tiny home could be allowed on the undersized lots that were allowed under the other um yeah, the other recommendation I I don't know what the ramifications would be in the town of Chadam. I don't
know how many lots would be eligible. I just the the concept of having an a as of right ability to build a tiny home on an undersized lot does concern me on a non-conforming lot
does concern me. I don't know if others feel this. I mean I don't know if that's a comment we would want to make. I I guess Corey first I just think we should have this conversation because I mean I don't know how many it would apply to. Uh, I mean,
I'm familiar with one area that has a, you know, on paper a small, I guess, house lot. It's identified. It's got a parcel number. No one's ever going to build a house on it because it's too small. But could this open the door for a tiny house? Tiny houses don't seem to
have be have any kind of connection with like wastewater requirements. So there's I don't know how many, but I I want to tread very carefully on this one because I I get the intent, but I do think there's some scenarios that we we
try to want to avoid. Um so I I I guess the undersized lot, you know, conference uh definition. Um and it's a bottom line for me, we need to have this conversation, but I do think there's some things we want to make sure
we we cover. Dean, I sort of I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I I sort when I think of a tiny house or tiny lot, I think of a cottage and I think of a cottage colony, you know, sort of scenario. I don't think it's any really any bigger difference than that, but it is opportunity for
for more housing, more tools in the toolbox for us to have. And I, you know, if we want to write a letter that um I that um stresses what we we um the the things that we are really in
agreement of, I'd appreciate if we didn't put in any thing that we're cons, you know, that we're opposed to because we really haven't had time to talk about it and we won't have time because it's October 31st. No, the the the comment period is Yeah. It's like the 30th of October, so
we're not going to have any time. Um, but I think if we it would be very telling if Cadam doesn't put a letter in supporting the seasonal community since we this was something that we voted at town meeting. Yeah, I I understand that and I hadn't
really scoped this out. I just this was the one item that kind of stuck stuck out at me. And uh if we were if if the board were concerned about the tiny house matter, we it could consider
sending a letter supporting the regs, but with um a request that that be modified. I don't know. I'm just throwing that out. I don't know what what what we would say, Cy. And then well I I just think for for make sure we got our information correct is the tiny
houses are about 400 square f feet I think by definition. Yes. Um that's a small unit. It is it is a small unit. So so cottage colonies I'm thinking like some of the traditional colonies they're probably two or three times that size twice the size probably on average. So we we just
got to keep that in perspective. Um yeah I'm just looking at the at the proposed regulations on page six. It says a seasonal community, that's us, shall amend its zoning to allow the following uses as of right and in single family residential zoning districts in
accordance with the procedures for zoning adoption and amendments set forth in 48. It it it doesn't qualify the language is not qualified as to distinguish between conforming and non-conforming lots. And then one of the
items that's allowed as of right is the tiny house as long as it's a year-round housing unit. I any I point that out. Is Steuart, did you have something you wanted to say? Oh, yeah. Uh okay. I feel like I feel like I'm being rushed
into something that I don't completely I'm not sure the public completely understands. Um the it's the Commonwealth that's rushing us. I'm just Well, how long have we had have we had this talk? We just got this. I mean
it's the regulations came out. Um their notice is dated. Notice was dated. I don't know where when it is at the beginning. Um the public notice date is Oh, it says the deadline. It doesn't say the date of public.
It was September 30th. September 30th. It's a typical 30-day review um period. Okay. Go ahead, Stuart. I'm Well, we don't know. I I guess back to Cory's question. We don't know how many lots this might affect. Have we heard from the zoning board on this as to what
their thinking is on because it looks like we have to they they we have to comply our zoning would have to comply with these regulations. That seems well we have not I'm not sure they were even aware of this and
nor the planning board for that matter. They're the ones that would have to propose Katie has her hand up. Yeah, Katie. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, the um the town would have to adopt zoning relative to undersized lots and tiny homes. So, we would go through a typical
zoning bylaw amendment process um similar to any other zoning bylaw amendment process. So, it would follow public hearings through the planning board um probably a lot of you know different um a lot of meetings um to look at the regulations or to look at
the proposed bylaw um the public hearing before the planning board. it would come back before the select board and it would have to be approved by town meeting. So, there's a lot of process that still goes into um place before the um tiny homes or the undersized lots
would be approved um from a zoning standpoint. So, there would be a Sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry. I was just going to say so there's a lot of opportunity for comment prior to any adoption. Well, I always get nervous about, you know, voting for
something and adopting something and then uh there's very little way to undo it. Um I'm con a little bit concerned that we have so little time to digest this and have a you know a more comprehensive look see into this and the
ramifications. We haven't heard is there the agenda report is is there a is there a um town council review on that or did I so I the process you write the process oh you're asking her okay I'm sorry go
ahead if you have a comment go ahead please well I'm just saying that the the seasonal communities act came before us and the opportunity to become a seasonal community started back well before our town meeting last year. And so we've had
like basic concepts that have been uh discussed in that in that act and we voted in favor of becoming the community knowing that this would be opportunity to create tools that could help move forward year- round housing um in a in
in a more streamlined manner. The these are recommendations that are coming out of um the housing and the new I can't even remember the new um yeah thank you. And yeah, thanks. And so this is a public comment period for a hearing to
discuss this. This is a long process um that you know this will go through this hearing. Public comments will happen. There'll be deliberations at the state level to talk about um all the different aspects of this. there'll probably be things added or deleted out of it based
on recommendations and then it will be um voted on um and and then taken for a review process again before it is adopted. So this is just one piece of it. Um and we have fundamentally
supported seasonal communities and as I said if we um simply could write a letter in support of this and if there's an issue here that we don't want to um in that we have concern I would simply say it's a concern. I wouldn't get into
let's look at legal counsel that we're not if we sloww walk this we're not going to be able to comment and I don't think that's fair to the process but I think that we could express concerns or some of the board had concerns or take a
vote to see if the board voted that that's a concern but this is a just a a part of the process well if if we're going to have a letter sent that's going to be signed by the chair I think whatever the letters going to say it should have we should have a
vote on that uh tonight tonight and and also you know indicate what's in the letter. We've already had a couple of recommendations from the staff of a couple of changes they'd like to see made and uh I introduced the the subject
of tiny homes because it it strikes me that whatever the process is going forward for adopting bylaws and that's what they say we're supposed to do. There is a mandate in these regulations that that process that that that the end
result of that is to require is to allow a tiny home as of right in a residential single family district. That's how I'm reading this and is that and the question for the board for that I put to the board is is that a concern?
We we get a legal uh I'm sorry Mr. Dykins. Oh then but it also has to go through our our local process for changing zoning. So, so it's it's not you shall do this. It still has to go through our our local process.
But I don't I I don't I don't I guess I'm I'm reading this to mean that if you don't do it, they'll they'll whatever their remedy is, they can kick kick you out of the seasonal community category. I I'm uncertain.
I think they're they're I think they're mandating the end result of the zoning bylaw process. That's how I'm reading. Maybe maybe I'm reading it wrong. Well, that's how I'm reading it. I guess I clarification because it says in in the packet says requires that mun
municipalities adopt zoning that permits undersized lot in tiny house development as of right in all single family residential zoning districts. So it requires us we go through the process of the town meeting to get a zoning change which we know in Chadam can be very
difficult but but if it if it doesn't pass what is that what what does that do what is what is that you know what is the result that I guess for clarification mechanically if we say let's go forward with this we go to town meeting we put a
zoning change out to conform with the requirements here and it does not pass where does that leave I guess that's I just for that's what at some point I'd like to get clear. Well, there is a provision that they they can revoke your designation as a seasonal community and then you'd lose
these other benefits. Um and they specify it that this is 76.12 at the end. But I don't I mean I I don't even know how many uh you know lots would be affected in the town of Chadam that a
tiny house I mean we know somebody can put a tiny house on a conforming lot and we know that but now they can do that without any my concern is typically in an agenda packet we have at least the opport at
least we have the option in uh a legal analysis or opinion. It does say on page seven, legal review not applicable. Well, that that's my my point. When there's there appears to be 21 pages of legal guidelines and restrictions uh and
at least five statutes referenced if that's um I I may end up supporting the seasonal communities. I I don't know, but I I don't I I'm I'm favorable in general. I'd like to see this go forward and on a timely basis, especially since I'm the one that's probably going to have to sign
the letter. Um but um I'm I'll throw it open to the board and I know we have some opportunity for public comment too, Corey. And then well, in general, I getting a letter moving forward. I'm I'm fine with I do think Chadam, you know, the look at our
makeup. We have a tremendous amount of pre-existing non-conforming lots. We have undersized lots. It's, you know, we have, you know, a multitude of zoning areas. I think that putting something in the letter to just at least address it to some level is appropriate. So, with
I'd like to vote on that, though, so so fine. I mean, I'm I'm fine with moving a letter forward. We understand there's a process further down and I think I think at some point we should get legal counsel to weigh in on on some of the stuff that Stuart's bringing up. I definitely do. But I think from
the next step for us is to, you know, bring forth a letter, you know, support. But I do think we need and at least I would prefer to recognize the the undersized lot element and having some maybe some I'm not saying concerns, but how to word it somewhat that we identify
it, highlight it from our community that that's something that's on our radar. That's that is where I would I I'm landing. So would can I just throw this out for consideration by the board? Well, there are two things.
Number one, um would would there be any receptivity to a letter that is generally in favor recites the points that we'd like that have been highlighted by the staff, the two points uh that we mentioned before. And with respect to tiny lot tiny house homes say
something like um we are cons we have we have a concern about the mandate on this. We would ask you to consider whether you want to impose that mandate something to that effect. I mean that's crude way of phrasing it rather than
saying we're outlight outright opposed to it. I don't know if that's something that I would like to see a unanimous vote from this board on whatever we do, but I throw that out. If not, I'll turn to the public for comment. Jeff, yeah. No, I I I think I think we can
write a letter that says uh on the undersized lots and the uh tiny tiny homes that um we recognize the the hard realities of getting um bylaws changes and zoning bylaw changes through town
meeting. Uh and so our comments are guided with the caveat that this is that mandate may not be, you know, may not be possible given the difficulties of of so of so doing. That's not very good language. But there are a couple things I really want to weigh in very strongly
for. One is including healthcare workers as essential employees. I think that's huge. I think it's critical. And I think that getting another uh it's clear with this discussion getting another six months and uh to to to process this
locally or or to get it done um with two town meeting cycles is very important. So, so I think I think we critically we need to respond and I think those are two points we absolutely have to respond to and the notion that hey guys wait a second we we need some time to digest
this never mind with the challenge of getting it through a local zoning by I just wanted to say that my in my concern in raising this on county home tiny homes is not related to the process or the difficulty of getting anything
passed in town of Chadam. really goes to this notion of do we want this in chat. Okay, that's what I was getting at. I have no idea. But but I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. The other point I wanted to make is we are going to have a meeting on the in the morning of the 20th. We just decided
to do that. Uh, it's conceivable, I should think, that whatever we come up with tonight, we could have our letter drafted and we could have an opportunity to look at that letter and take a vote on the 20th so that I'm not stuck with having to interpret what five different people think about what I'm supposed to
sign. Okay. Just one follow I would add that as an I suppose adding that as an agenda item to that. Okay. I mean I I and I'm okay with that as long as we get the the when we get as we get to get the letter but I it kind of um facitiously it's like tiny home
McMansions. I mean I know we we've already got McMansions. So So and a tiny home once in a while on a on an undersized lot is going to be okay. We can live with it. We can we've lived with gigantic jagungo houses everywhere in this town. I think we can live with a tiny one.
That's a very valid point. And it offers frankly year-round residents an opportunity to have a home over their head that isn't a McMansion that you know and hopefully we can. It doesn't bother me one iota to be honest with you. No, I appreciate that. Do we know whether I don't know enough about tiny
homes to know has is it in place in other I don't mean is there bio or anything. Is it being utilized in other communities? I think there's opportunity. I think there's some models out in the Midwest that we've looked at for other housing opportunities that are are have zoning
for uh tiny homes and it's, you know, when you're building a home now, it's so expensive, too. Yeah. So if there's the opportunity to have a small piece of Chattam and put, you know, and you can afford a tiny home per square foot versus something rather larger and it's
year round. It's deed year round, then that's that's a that's a stepping stone for, you know, one single person or a couple to get a start in the town. Um I if you look at if you look at our ADU um uh laws right now, we don't see people
rushing to do ADUs in town. I mean it's it's they whatever it is it is still costly. Yeah. But I I think that again this is just another tool in the toolbox for us. I understand the mandate is is you know the by right issue is is can be a bit
troubling for people but you know this is this is this is a huge deal for for us to have these kind of opportunities especially from Chadam to Province Town where we're really struggling with you
know municipal workers and um yearround people working and living in town versus just work uh just you know just working in town and I I fully believe that you know as you said healthcare workers, food producers essential there are
essential workers def definitions that I think should be expanded within this realm um that um goes beyond that. As I said this is um this is a letter in the process and we have plenty of times to
be able to talk you know to to address some of the issues. forward and we should with with respect to the OP the occupations shouldn't we also include the the the fishermen that we the fishing community because we have billion
outside of that they could put that in here I just did didn't was there any discussion on Friday's at Friday's meeting of the Kimla about tiny homes yeah it was the I didn't show up in general the um the the the towns that had the designation there was obviously
towns that didn't have the designation Um we're very much in support of it and it was across the board. Um okay. Um um to move forward the the Cape Islands municipal leaders are putting a letter together in a comment too. Sure. I have one more precious comment. I
apologize in advance, but we're very artful about maximizing the use of square footage for a building on a less than half an acre or we're very artful about maximizing our land. Well, flip that on its head a little bit and say,
can we get artful about having smaller homes? And I think the use of tiny is really unfortunate. I think it's smaller. Yeah. Or or very small or whatever on on undersized. I think flip it on its head and maybe we can get as well to provide
folks small houses that can't afford big ones. Okay. Thanks. All right. I'm going to go Stuart. Well, I'll wait here. Well, I don't want I I'm concerned about unintended consequences and this seems like one of those things
that could could happen to. All I'm asking is for more information. I think it's terrible that the state is given us, you know, so limited time to respond to this and seems to me like we might be forced into doing something
with our zoning bylaws that we don't want to do. And I don't know if I want to sign a letter of support now, not knowing those consequences. And a legal counsel would be helpful. I understand the short period of time. You know, ask
them for another month. This is uh it's very concerned about being rushed into another which could be a very could be very good. I don't I could care less about tiny homes. They look pretty cool when I see them in a magazine, but I like to know what I'm getting into. Okay. Thank you. I'm gonna turn to
public comment. I'll start online first. I think Elaine Gibbs and then there's an AR. I'm not sure where that is will be next. Elaine, you're up first. Uh thank you. Um I have to say that this is far more than a just about tiny homes
and I do think it's premature for us to sign on and uh to support it uh without legal counsel. uh when we uh when town meeting approved it in May, all they did was approve that it was a scen uh
seasonal community uh without having these proposed regulations that were going to impact it. Um uh we're being asked to adopt these regulations uh without town council here to explain them to us. Um, if I
understand correctly and putting this all together, buy right yearround affordable housing is permitted in all single family residential zone districts in Chadam. It applies to both rental and ownership of affordable housing as long as it's used as a principal residence
for 10 months or more to an occupant. In this package, it also says that the affordable housing trust can use funds to purchase real property for this purpose. The regulation requires quote municip municipalities adopt zoning that
permits undersized lots and tiny homes. So all undersized lots are included in this and by right in all single family residential zone districts and must send the text of zoning to the EHL within 60
days of adoption. This act effectively eliminates all single family residential districts in Chadam if it falls under the affordable housing. And I'll give you an example. The affordable housing trust could buy land in any single
family residential district in Chadam that has been grandfathered undersized lots in an R20 or an R4 40 zoning. We have them all over the place. constantly before the zoning board of appeals if you recall that it is when
they used it they were they were small lots and then they got changed to R20s or R40s and have been for many many years. They're saying that has to be ignored. So the town could buy a piece of land, the affordable housing trust
could find one of those non-conforming lots that could be a half an acre in an R20. that's considered a non-conforming lot because it was grandfathered and they could put up whatever that lot takes
and or someone with additional property could build do the same thing. I I have the acreage here. I could suddenly say I want, you know, I'm going to let the town put four units on the top of my
hill and I would be able to do that by right and um town council should have been here so that he could walk us through and we could ask these kinds of questions. This is going on throughout the country where
the affordable housing people want to totally eliminate the concept of single family residential zones for affordable housing. And that's what this is in my view. That's what this is. And it's going to have significant impact on
every single person who lives in this town. And I think it's premature to say, "Oh, we like it, but you don't even know what the butts are." We have no idea the implications for the town. And I I can't believe that we only have
31 days. You know, it back in December 24 is when the executive office made this designation. And if they're only giving us 30 days, that's really appropriate because we are required to change our zoning bylaws to accommodate this. And the next question would be,
well, what if we don't? Can they mandate it? You know, I I don't know how you can write a letter in support without saying we want a postponement and we need to get in town council to find out what the implications are. I can assure you that
a town meeting if if people had known the implications that there this was eliminating uh R20s and R40s or whatever any any zoning of single family residential that they would be opposed to it because it's
too much authority given to one small group of people because once this passes that's it we've changed Chattam forever and um I I I don't I don't know how you could drive a truck through this thing. I can't believe that they actually said
legal review isn't required because it's clearly representative of the intent of the language of the act. It's not clear at all. I have we have no idea what this the implications are. And it's not and again it's not just tiny houses. Tiny
houses are on wheels apparently. This is or have to be moved in on there with no foundation. This is any undersized lot in Chhatton that's nonconforming because of zoning previous zoning changes. And there are hundreds of them probably.
Okay. And uh and the affordable housing trust could go out under this and buy it and never have to come back to to town for approval. So those are my comments and I hope you will move slowly on this. I I think it's absolutely wrong to only have 30 days to
respond to something so serious and with wide ranging implications to the town. Thank you. Thank you, Elaine. Um I think that's Ann Ryan next. Yes. Hi, Ann Ryan here. Um I think you
know tiny houses could be a good tool in the toolbox provided you know that they're used appropriately. Um, I am concerned about unintended consequences. I'm concerned about water and sewer. Um,
but mostly I'm concerned about enforcement and especially with respect to the possible abuse of them as short-term rentals. Um, you know, we have lots of
regulations and bylaws that are supposed to protect us from various things, but enforcement is always an issue because, you know, we have limited personnel to deal with that sort of thing as it is
with the short-term rentals. So, I still think that there are a lot of unknown unknowns. It would be nice if we could figure out a way to use this, but right now um I'm a little bit concerned about this. Thank you. Thank you. Um I think that's Carolyn
Mlen, I'm guessing. Yeah. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes, Carolyn. Okay. I I'm looking at this a little differently. I think what's being asked of you guys now is not to support it or not support it. It's to um make
recommendations in the next uh by the 30th of this month I believe is the deadline. Whatever the deadline is and if you look at your packet I think on online it shows up on page 172 of the packet or page seven of Gloria's report she outlines some suggestions that she
thinks would be beneficial for Chadam to make. Again, seasonal communities is something the state's already doing. They're asking us to make recommendations before on like what we how we would like to tweak the seasonal communities and they may listen to our
recommendations or they may not. But this is what this window is. It's not for us to accept it. We've already accepted the seasonal communities act. So this is to make recommendations. We have the the end of the month to do that. You can look at the page to see what some of uh Gloria's recommendations
are. And then you know if if later we have uh everything has to go through the zoning board everything has to go through town meeting um any changes we make and the Tom will get to decide they'll get to vet out all the possibilities and if we don't do it I guess eventually we could we could lose
the seasonal community's designation and if we did that we'd lost the we would lose the ability to do year- round deed restrictions and some of the other things that we want to do. So it will be a compromise but all that will the town meeting will get to decide. It's a long ways off. And if you look at some of the
recommendations that um Gloria has mentioned um on that page seven, uh one of them in particular is allowing the two months the 24 months rather than 18 months to um for the for this to go through the town's zoning boards um to
allow two town meeting cycles for that to happen. And then there's two other recommendations regarding um the lot size. So, if you guys want to look at that at page seven and maybe consider that if you're uncomfortable with it, I would suggest um revisiting this at the
next town meet at your next uh select board meeting if you're not comfortable doing it now. But I think that's the mission here. It's not whether or not we got we're going to accept seasonal communities. We're not making specific decisions about that. They're asking us for recommendations that would be
appropriate for our town. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, Carolyn. Uh Mr. Phillips. Ryan Phillips, 374 Orleans Road. Um the by right tiny home did jump out at me, but the there's one section that says um
you know buy right or special permit. I don't know if you could keep it to special permit and have it go through the ZBA. Um I think I think that's the tiny home that that's mobile. I think that that requires a special permit. I don't think it's Yeah, I I'm not sure what you what section
you're referring to or what page page four with the bullet the bullet point section. Oh, it's it's in it's in the blocks of the staff memo. Yeah. Um so I guess that's I guess these are
more questions is if you know can you keep it to special permit for the small lots. Um my other question is about the um year round the year- round trust or year- round housing trust fund. Mhm.
Um and what it seems like that gives that group a lot of power. I was just wondering what um what checks and balances would the select board have with the yearround housing trust? Well,
is there is there is it a year- round trust or is it just a trust? Year-round housing trust fund. I read these that's on page that's on page six of the Yeah, I just writing in the block. I looked at the regs yesterday.
There's there's a year round housing trust fund. Yep. They may we may establish this um it's would be by Okay. Okay. So, a town meeting and they talk about the board and they list the powers of the
board um which seem to be very similar to the powers that are given to the affordable housing trust under state law. Um um so I guess just speaking generally I mean the that
type of trust which would have to be approved by town meeting to be created would have a similar standing visa v the select board that the portable housing trust has which is means it would be fairly autonomous right I missed the may I thought it was a required thing so no it's not kind of
answers my thing and then um I don't know if does it go over how big the lot has to be for a tiny home in here. Did anyone Did I miss that? It It says It says you can put it in an um It just
says it can be in a single family residential zoning district. As I read that, it doesn't matter whether it's a conforming or an undersized lot. Okay. And I guess my my next question is um can you take a piece of land subdivide it into tiny lots for your
tiny homes? So can you take like you know an acre and cut it into you know six lots, six small lots? I think you'd have to go be I would think um Mr. Meadows might find on this you have to go before the planning board and get the subdivision approved. I'm using bad math right here but you
guys understand the gist of what I'm I understand it. Okay. Yeah. the the only the only the overall was that it was um zoning that permits undersized lots. It wasn't it doesn't say subdividable lots. This was just um
permits undersized lot and tiny house development. But Mr. Chair, I'm I think Carolyn made a a very good suggestion. and she probably um should have made the presentation instead of me on uh what we should be doing in process is just commenting with Gloria's comments and
moving forward and not and not indicate a position fing and not indicate a position. Jeff, did you you were about to say something? No, I I agree. I I I think that I think Carolyn was spot on. Spot on. And then in terms of
what Brian's question is, it it prevents the the creation of new undersized lots that this Okay, that was prevents you cannot create new undersized lots to to build a bunch of tiny homes. You can't do that. Okay. All right. That was my question. Thanks. I was looking at the section u when Miss
Gibbs was talking on residential uses on undersized lots. This is on page six of the regulations. Yeah. So this is the second category that is allowed of right in your zoning which you're supposed to adopt. So you can put
a residential use on an undersized lot as of right provided that the residential use is for attainable housing which we like. Um the undersized lot shall be located in a single family residential zoning
district. Any single family residential use shall adhere to any applicable floor to area ratio requirements of the community. So that goes to the the lot coverage. The lot coverage.
So they're saying what is in effect in our bylaw would govern and then it says it would has to comply with all applicable laws governing wastewater and sewer systems which is good. What it doesn't say is whether and I don't know where the answer to this
whether the other um applicable the other bio uh provisions of the zoning bylaw such as um setbacks and you know 15 foot from the from the neighbor is it from the street is it 25
ft whether that would apply I'm assuming it doesn't I'm assuming they're not applicable that's not clear to me um and then for finally Any residential use, this goes to something that Miss Ryan was asking about. Any residential use on an undersized lot shall comply with any
applicable prohibitions, limitations, or other requirements of the of us related to seasonal homes or short-term rentals. And then the proviso that they can't allow we can't allow a residential housing on an undersized lot as a seasonal home or a short-term rental for
less than six months a year. So there's a little bit of um to me there's a little bit of um lack of clarity as to whether um you know the the other um
requirements of our bylaw which people b routinely file special permit requests to have waved or varied would apply here. I'm assuming they don't. I'm assuming that they're saying the only one that applies is the the the area coverage, but I mean I I
don't know whether, you know, I I could certainly entertain the type of letter you're talking about, Shireen, which lists, hey, we've reviewed this. We have a bunch of we have a list of items that you should either consider revising or clarifying.
And if you were going to do that, if we were going to do that, I would I would um I would personally like to sort of touch on the the tiny homes or the residential uses. I I I just think
I mean, how how are we going to make that the complete letter without hearing from town council on his opinions? Well, that's that's a legitimate question. I don't know what this is. com letter. This is a comment
letter. This is I've I've never gone through having town council look at a comment letter for like legislation. I think if we were adopting something that would be a whole different story, but you know, this is this is a process and um we had our
housing coordinator make the recommendations as to what she saw in here. And if everybody's comfortable with that, I'm comfortable with that being what we send for a letter. and um and and and then we'll have other
opportunity as individuals to attest to what our concerns are which I will definitely be sending a a letter myself as you know as a community member separately and you know and and
let's just move this forward as you know Caroline you wanted to speak a second time is that Caroline. Yes. Yes. I'm Yes. Hold on. Yeah. I'm sorry. I just Sure. I just found the um the part of the packet. I mean, a couple
of the things that you guys were just talking about were part of Gloria's recommendations um recommending that the regulations add language to either 76.02 definitions or 76.04 zoning requirements that undersized lots are the lots that are in existence at the time of the
adoption of uh of the required uh bylaw. So that would prevent um the creation of new subdivisions, new lots being chopped up. That was one of your concerns. And the other one um allowing municipalities to establish a minimum lot size. So those were the two two of the things
that you're you're very concerned about. So I think I think she's done a good job at outlining and again you're just making these recommendations. You're kicking this back up to the state saying, you know, these are some of the things that were good for our community. Would you consider them to be added into the bylaw? They're going to do what
they're going to do. You're just making a recommendation. You're not accepting it at this point. Technically, we already have. So, that's just uh I would just go with what Gloria has written here or put it on the agenda for next week and hopefully you can have more information. But that's what we're doing
here. That's what you're supposed to be doing here is uh just making recommendations to the state. Thank you. Thank you, Carolyn. Elaine, do you wanted to speak a second time? Yes, if you don't mind. Uh this is about undersized lots. I just want to
reiterate that according to this, if something was previously an R40 and got changed to an R20, it's a non-conforming lot. That means that R20 parcel would be up for grabs for the entire lot to be affordable housing. They could do all
their setbacks and all those kinds of things, but by right, they would be able to make that lot. That's an R20 all affordable housing in a single family residential district. And that is a serious concern and
without town council either saying no districts and and so I don't know for us to say oh we're fine with this but we got a question about tiny homes. This isn't about tiny homes. This is about the entire town,
single family districts being impacted anywhere in town because part of this this approval is giving the power to the affordable housing trust to buy land and they could go in and buy a lot and the entire lot in a residential area could
be affordable housing. And you know, as long as it meets the setbacks, you know, that's that's it. And I I don't know how that can be ignored. And how we can send out a letter before this is reviewed by town
council and he answers a boatload of questions. I think it's really unfair. I think you should ask for an extension or they should move their October 31st deadline to something else. This is too serious uh for communities throughout
Massachusetts to deal with in a fire drill situation. It's it makes absolutely no sense. This is mission creep again. Oh well, we'll just do this and we'll deal with it later. That that's not We do that and then we get ourselves into trouble. We
should do it first and we should not be They knew this was coming. They should have sent us the regulations earlier. the town. They should have been in the warrant so that we knew what we were buying on to and and to get I'm just going to make one other comment about
all these groups that are going to take priority. Again, this is this is a pattern where we say, "Okay, well, we're going to say that only artists, bar fire personnel, whatever can be there." And every time you restrict the affordable
housing we're putting into a certain group of people, you are eliminating other people who would otherwise need that housing. And so we have to be very careful about doing that. You know, there are, you know, elderly people
downsizing and they're not on that list. you know, they won't be able to apply because we're saying it's going to be restricted to these particular groups of people uh in order to get into the lottery. And uh that that's just an ancillary thing at this point, but we're
doing that a lot. And we're finding out that we're excluding certain non-vocal groups who might need affordable housing by saying, you know, somebody can rent one out and paint all day. um and and live in affordable housing. I
I I mean I I when we got the seasonal I thing, it was like we got an award and it's not it's not really looking like an award right now. It's looking like we're getting tied up into something that we know nothing about and we have no idea
what the implications are. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Elaine, Shireen, and then Corey. Mr. Chair, I'm going to make a couple of comments that I I and then I'm going to make a motion because it's, you know, we've gone round and round about this, but um a couple of things. The Affordable Housing Trust can't go out
and just buy up land. We have to do RFP process. People have to want to sell their land to us. That's not, you know, that's not we're not out there doing that. Will we advocate for affordable and attainable housing? That yes, that's what we do. That's what the community housing partnership does. We have a
vital need in this town for year-round housing and we need to have tools in the toolbox and this is one way we're doing it. And I mean this is a systemic problem all over. And to say that it will exclude people I I I have to argue
that we have many different things that we're doing uh to support local yearround um u year- round residency. We just we're just getting started with this and it always comes down to um you
know when it comes to affordable housing that we're we're you know we're saying you can't do this. The zoning board of appeals goes ahead and they they they approve usually you know big McMansions
all over this town and you know and and you know small houses or or affordable houses. We have a need for this and we have a need to have a community. I I you know living in a in a retirement gated
community is not what I saw Chattam to be um or saw that that's how I wanted to end up the town kind of town I want to end up. I want to see you know people working and living in this town children being raised in this town. Um and you
know this this is something that the Cape is facing the c the whole country is facing a housing crisis and this is again one aspect of it one one tool in toolbox so I'm going to make a recommendation that we adop draft a
letter um to uh to the e do it again for me they are yeah thank you ehlc um um with the the following um with the recommendations made by our um um
housing um um director or not director um yeah um and that are included in this packet and by before on or before the 31st of October. I mean if you want to bring it back for review next week if that's a timely way to do it then so I
I'm happy to do that and have a further discussion. Well, it it's been pointed out to me by the town manager that we have a meeting on the 28th of October, too, so that we have time. Um, I had forgotten about that. So, we don't have to do it on the 20th. Uh,
so that that's a motion that's been seconded. Mr. Meadows, did you want to speak to that motion? Is it about one of the amendments or one of the suggestions by Gloria that we that that motion includes? Um, and I'm second guessing myself on
this. If we have references um um re recommend that 76.12 be changed to allow seasonal communities 24 months for the two two two town meeting cycles. My two-part question is one for Katie, if we have a zoning
amendment that goes before town meeting and it fails, can that exact same amendment be brought forth within a one-year term? Um, yes, I believe it can as long as it's the proposal that's made by the planning board. Otherwise, I believe if
it were um made by any other body or person or citizens group, it would have to go through, I believe, um, a process of um, if I'm not mistaken, a repetitive petition process to see if it could go back for um, within the 2-year period.
Uh, but I believe as long as it's something that is proposed by our planning board, then yes, it can go back within that two-year period. Okay. So, so if the planning board doesn't support an article of this sort mechanically, I'm just saying throwing
it out there. Um, what does that leave us mechanically? And two, um, it says, um, two town meeting cycles. I'm just putting it out there. Do you want two annual town meeting cycles or do you want special town meeting? That seems to be a bone of contention
sometimes with certain mechanics here. Do we want to confine annual town meeting as the mechanics or are we opening up to special town meetings? Just just that address to Katie address to Katie or the board actually.
So from my perspective I think we would want to see two annual town meeting cycles. Just I don't think that we would want to be forced into a a special town meeting. um scenario with I think that's what the language insinuates where is that section on the
revocation of designation on page seven I'm reading the summary that the glory I'm read I'm reading the summary also here but I think it insinuates suggests that it's an annual town meeting that's what I interpreted I'm looking at the right because why would you say that why would you say 24 months where where you what page are you on
Jeeoff page seven and her summary comments middle of the page third bullet Right. Revocation of designation. Okay. I'll put it this way. Would there be any any um opposition to specify annual town meeting and and this amend
her language to say annual town meeting cycles. I mean that would simplify it for me. Okay. All right. So, there's a motion that that Shireen has put forward seconded by Jeff to basically send a comment letter.
It doesn't endorse the rags, right? It's not asking for an endorsement of the rags. It's just commenting on on on the the three bullet items that are on page seven of the staff memo. That's is that the memo? Are you going to add in
fishermen and healthcare workers? I would. Is that part of your motion? Um, yeah. Okay. And I assume you seconded that. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Is there anything else that anybody on the board wants to have included?
Because I mean I I I don't I don't know what to say about it. I did. You want to say something? Is this a letter that is drafted and then comes back to us to look at? It would come back to us on the 28th,
which doesn't give us too much time, but there's because it seems to me those might not be the only points that we may want to add to the letter. Well, I think we've raised a couple of points that Right. But I don't want to additional points that concern me, but Yeah. And I think it goes beyond
the the staff comments. Yeah, they do. Yeah. All right. So, we're not endorsing the letter. Tell me that's your motion. We're not endorsing the letter tonight. We're not endorsing the rigs. We're asking staff to draft a letter, bring it back to us on the 28th of October, and
we'll vote on that night whether to send the letter or not. Does and and during that time, is that sufficient time for town council to review this and with his comments? What what what do you want him to review? The regs in general or the letter or both?
the letter short. Is that sufficient time? I should think so. I would think so. Yes, we can get it out to them tomorrow if that's what the board votes. It's I mean I think it's just important, you know, we get excited about this sort
of thing, but it's important to to do our due diligence and and uh you know, yeah, maybe we would all sign on board. I personally would like to if we're going to do that, I would like him to clarify um whether under on page six of the
actual regulations, this is SE 76.04 4 paragraph 1 A sub 2 whe whether other requirements of the zoning bylaw would
be applicable for residential use on an underiz lot beyond the the floor a floor the coverage ratio I suspect the answer is going to be no but they can be waved anyway because it's not there and then they can they can wave it they
wave it now as as you pointed out and Shireen pointed out. All right. Are we satisfied on what we're voting on right now? One comment. I think the I think the draft letter ought to come back. I'm not going to be here, but the draft letter ought to come back to the board prior to the 28 so that people can digest it and
understand what it's saying. And then I just think that'll be well do hopefully they they can do that. I don't know what I'll just say this because we're we're in deliberation. I I don't know where I come down on tiny homes. I
raised the issue. I'm not sure what to say about it to be honest with you because I'm not sure how many of them we would wind up getting anyway. Nobody's going to put a tiny home on a a conforming lot. Um Carolyn, I I know you want you have you
wanted to speak a third time. We're about to vote on this letter. Is that you're you you still have your hand raised. Yeah. I I just I I'm a little confused as to what you're actually voting on. I guess I you going to vote on the letter that that or the recommendations that
Gloria has already put down. Are you going to add Yes. Yes. Yes. You going to add recommendations to that for the next time or we're well we're adding a recommend we're just for clarification we're adding the recommendation that Mr. Mr.
Dykens made about fishermen and healthare workers and healthcare workers and that letter is going to come. We're not in we're not endorsing the letter. We're asking town the town staff to draft the letter to try to get it to us before the 28th of
October. And also um um that town council look at the um regulations proposed regulations and the letter and offer us any comments he has. Yeah. offer, right? But we're getting ourselves into. All right. He's he's going to re the town council is going to review your
letter for recommendation. Okay. That's what we're going to ask. I mean, that's not part of the that's not part of the motion. Unless you want to amend the motion, Stuart, to add that in. I would like to Okay. I'd like to amend the motion to add the town council review the regulations for uh comment
and the letter. You said and the letter seasonal. All right. Is there a Thank you. Is there a second to that amendment to the motion? Yeah, I'll second that. Okay. Okay. All right. I'm going to end the discussion and deliberation. We we'll take a vote on that motion.
Miss Davis. I. Mr. Dikkins. Hi. Mr. Meadows. Hi. Mr. Smith. Hi. And the chair votes I. Okay. Thank you. Um fin item is also a request from member Davis. This is on the um lease to
locals program for for that's currently in place in three other communities and u Shireen has uh prepared a memo and if you'd like to um go into it Shireen ask Mr. Dyens to share momentarily. I do
have a couple of questions when I get back. Okay. Um so the summary just for the public was just um for the town of Chattam to take a look at um Province Town and Orleans lease to local program
that they have adopted and and put into place um to basically the purpose of it is to um is is to provide um financial incentives for local property owners to convert short-term rentals vacant and u
vacant units and second homes into stable year-round housing for qualified local house households. It would be a year round again a year- round program. East and Orleans um adopted it together and I think Trum and Wellfleet are going
forward with a program as well. They've got it either either they've adop adopted it or they're doing the same thing. They're in process as we are. Um so basically um there's a lot of um a
lot of of um things that we can look at and basically um if staff could you know Gloria I mean she's she lives in one of the towns that actually has adopted this program so she might have a little clearer overview as to how it how it
does how it works but there's certain elements that we'd want to look at and what our purpose would be identifying that what the eligibility requirements would be. Um who would qualify the tenants in the household, what would be the incentives,
um what would be the rent caps and affordability controls, compliance funding, um and what the funding and budget would be for something like this. Uh, Province Town has done a couple of things where they have an um economic
annual income cap for the tenants at a like $130,000. Um they have sample grant amounts that they're giving um for qualified tenants that include um incentives for one year
uh several years anywhere from $4,000 for a private room to um to 8,000 for a three-bedroom. Um the the idea is to um just craft something that is
similar to what we've seen other towns have success um with. there are some some overall results I think that we could also have presented to us of for how it's been working in both Province Town and Orleans but also what are the
lessons challenges and the adjustments that the towns have had to make um when the since the programs are running also what the you know the advantages and the risks are are important I think for the community to understand better. One of the things also could be um adding in um
local um year-round housing as a tax exemption um component um if something like that might be um might be feasible as well. Um so I'm happy to answer some questions. Uh we have there's
partnership programs that are out there that are being launched between towns. Um, I think some of the things we'd have to look at is how the programs are implemented. Uh, the Province Town in Orleans took a third-party um um that
has worked to implement their program called Placemate. I don't know anything about it. I didn't look into what that was. I didn't I saw Kevin Gallagan yesterday from Orleans and I didn't I we went over a little bit of this but not all of it. Um, so that's that's my
proposal. Thank you, Shireen. So, this program looks to convert short-term rentals into long-term rentals for for pretty much Yeah. Sec. Yeah. or second home or Yeah. or or seasonal rentals. So, it's an incentive program for property
owners that would give them, you know, based on getting grant money or or, you know, having a fund set up to be able to pay folks to convert their their their homes. Again, I view this as another
tool in the toolbox to support year- round housing for local residents um and and stabilize our workforce and and offer those folks another another strong program. Now, your your ask I think the ask tonight as well is similar to what
kind of where we concluded on on the prior discussion was to have staff draft a recommendation based on frankly leaning on um Gloria and her experience in Ptown and her experience with other um folks in other in East Tam Orleans
and Ptown on how they've crafted their program, what kind of levels of support, what the criteria are, where the funding comes from. There's a whole bunch of unanswered questions, but I think at its conceptual basis, it's a very interesting program to be able to offer to the town.
Yeah. Um I think one of the things, Jeeoff, is Orleans voted $500,000 for their program. And I think um as far as funding, if somebody's looking at how much uh the towns have looked at, um Province Town did 350 their first year
and 630 their second. Um so there's a lot of questions um you know uh you know that we I'd like to hear more so that we can ask them and see if this is a program we can you know potentially adopt and u move forward. I think
community housing partnership had been taking a look at uh lease to locals program. Um um but I sort of jumped the gun to get this moving along as we've been sort of working towards these these opportunities that we're seeing come up.
So Shireen, thank you for bringing this forward and I and your thank you for writing the memo up. I I just had a question or two. Um we we we don't have a a long um history yet to know how successful we've been even in Province
Town because that just went in in 2024. East Ham and Orleans are partnering. Is East Ham um contributing any funds because it doesn't I I think so. I it wasn't spelled out. Okay. Clearly. I think the it was the program itself
and the funds are basically used for two purposes as I see it. One one is to engage the manager which is this company called Placemate. Yeah. If we win a third party. Yeah. A third party. They're using Placemate. Uh and the other would be to
provide various incentives. Okay. One of the incentives they're talking about is a tax exemption. There are obviously some exemptions that are in place now. Some of them might require a home rule petition if we were to go to the legislature. Right. Okay. But that's just again some other
opportunity we can discuss if it is and um there are you know I also asked staff if staff would look at at some of the the lessons learned and the challenges uh that these and what adjustments they've made. So, it's a compro, you know, more of a comprehensive um layout,
bigger picture for us that we're not number one reinventing the wheel, but we can, you know, get a not get a handle, but start to get a better idea on how to manage expectations and what some of the challenges could be in the way of uh the
incentives and the demand and all sorts of other things. Okay. Have you offered a motion? I have not. Okay. Curry, did you want to speak first? Just for I'd love to get some um I guess some more insight on some of these incentives because um you break it down.
Private room, $4,000. Studio 6,000 for one tenant, 12,000 for two tenants. I guess there would be some kind of um relationship potential model between boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, whatever the model ends up being. Um, when you get into like the onebedroom,
twobedroom, threebedroom, not every threebedroom is the same. We have three bedrooms that are, you know, 1,200 ft² and then some threebs that are, you know, 4,000 ft². I I guess do they have some kind of, you know, discussion about if you have like
a really not, you know, a more sizable three-bedroom house that has more amenities, kitchen, decks, whatever, is is there, you know, more of an incentive versus a house that, you know, pre-existing has three bedrooms that is frankly more more like a two-bedroom, I guess. I guess that would be based on our
occupancy loss, right? Okay. Um, just to Cory's question, when you think about those folks that are involved in the short-term rental program now with those types of bedrooms to get them to do at least to locals, you may have to sweeten the pot a little
bit because they're going to make So, it's not a slam dunk that a lot of people are going to convert their their short-term rentals into long-term housing because incentives have to be pretty large for them to do. But, but it but it's again potentially another tool in the toolbox. Yeah. to throw out there
and and we we don't know what happens after the first year whether they would renew or not. Right. That's something we don't again these are some of the questions about you know you're basically asking well you haven't made the motion yet. I I'll just throw it open to public
comment unless there's any more from the board and then you can I'll make a motion. Um I'm not seeing any public comment Mr. Phillips. Brian Phillips. Um, you guys for the year on tax exemptions, you guys already rolled out for long-term rentals, right?
For a tax exemption is the way I understood it. Say, could you repeat that? No. Not sure what it wasn't. What did you ask? When you guys were doing the year- on tax exemptions, a lot of them for, you know, military Oh, yeah. discussion we had recently
military ones and then there was the you know just residence um wasn't one of those um for for long-term rentals I don't recall but we haven't gotten that back I don't think so um because an issue
came up with a resident taxpayer a taxpayer landlord had approached me and said that we should have included year-round rental yearround rental housing as a tax exemption because now he sees a shift in the cost for his, you know, his rental.
Therefore, he feels that he might have to adjust the rental um per month rental. Okay? You know, because of that. And they said, "Well, that wait, stand by and wait because we're talking about lease to locals." We did not. Okay. Because um the tax adjuster said
you might have or that you did there was one in Harwitch did it or Orleans or something and they said I think you got you guys might have put in I don't know. I thought you did, but um have to go back and look at the minutes. We did not. Okay. So, apparently we did not, but I, you know, I don't recall everything that was said
at that meeting, and we're expecting a memo back from the staff that lays out with some specificity a recommendations for ones that we asked them to come back to us on. Okay. So, we'll see. Um, uh, we don't think it's there, though.
All right. Um, so I guess in essence, doesn't wouldn't that do, you know, a similar thing? And I guess the only other um the fact that the people that already rent, you know, wouldn't get anything for this. The the people already, you
know, already do year- round rentals. Jireine, I I I imagine we could do an application program kind of thing. I I I don't know. These are things we can discuss, Brian, when we get a recommendation that comes back from the
staff. you know, we'll have a ton of we'll all have a lot of questions. Okay. And so I I would hope that you'd bring that question back if it doesn't come up in the me in the proposal. All right.
Thanks, Stuart. Um I think this is an interesting other tool in the toolbox as you um suggest the uh being an adult not of blood relation to
the property owner. You know what that exactly? Again these are other people's regulations. I'm not sure. We probably ask when when if it comes up in our our um proposal. Um, but it is qu Yeah, it was a question.
Yeah, I read this in the newspaper last summer as well and uh there's other communities doing it. I think it's an interesting I'll be interested to see what they this folks bring back. I heard it discussed on the radio. Shireen, did you I don't see any more public comments. So, Shireen, do you want to offer a motion? I move that the select board direct
staff to explore, discuss, and recommend whether Chattam should adopt a lease to locals program similar to those recently launched in Province Town and Orleans and East Ham. Such a program would well I don't need to read that part but would include uh an overall overview purpose
eligibility requirements qualifying tenants incentives grants rent caps affordability controls mon monitoring and compliance funding and funding and budget. But essentially, you're asking staff, I'm looking at your written memo,
to to to develop a detailed lease to locals program design for us to consider, right? And to explore revenue sources, right? Okay. Exactly. Second. All right. We got that, Kathy. All right. Um, call the roll. Miss Davis.
Hi. Mr. Dyken. Hi. Mr. Matz. Hi. Mr. Smith. I. And the chair votes I. Thank you. Okay. Last item on the agenda is something that was uh is left over from I think last time we met. Uh this is to consider the approval of affirming approval of or
affirming slaffirming the town manager's engagement of special parenthesis labor council per the chat world charter section 4-7m this was continued so when we discussed this and this was originally put on the agenda by um uh member Smith um there's
a provision in the charter that says that the town manager this has to do with her duties is responsible for negotiation of all contracts with town employees over wages and other terms and conditions of employment. Then it says accept employees. I think that's
just a legacy from the school district from one of the we had school u our own school system. The town manager may subject to the approval of select board employ special counsel to assist in the performance of these duties. So the town manager is supposed to come before the
select board uh if she wants to employ labor the council. I'm calling it labor council. They're using the word special counsel, but that's what it is. This is the council that assists uh the town manager in the negotiation of contracts.
The contracts themselves with with the unions come before us for approval, but that's not what's on the table here. So, um Stuart had asked to see the underlying um engagement letter between the firm we have been
using for some time, Clifford and Kenny. And um it was reported back there's no formal engagement letter per se uh but there is a a letter that lays out the fee arrangements and that's before us. So um we're being asked to um since we
hadn't um uh had this provision of the charter technically followed in historically at least not during my time on the board. Um, we've approved regular town council, but I don't think we have been asked to approve labor council. So, that's before us. And I I think this
really just calls for a simple vote to approve and affirm the town manager's engagement of Clifford and Kenny as as special counsel per that charter provision. Yes, Stuart. So, um, I have a couple of questions. the when before my tenure
here, you folks uh went through an RFP process for hiring uh special or not special but general counsel, Mr. Talerman. Um and then uh that came up most recently because his contract had expired. We got through that. um that
seems to be ironed out. And um I remember when we uh went through the waterways regulations, we uh went through an RFP process to hire special counsel at that as well. Um we've now had this firm for looks like somewhere
around 13 years and it doesn't look like where I haven't seen an RFP process for this group. And I think I think to have a competitive we may end up with uh with this group, but to have a competitive um
program uh similar to an RFP uh would be would be helpful like we've done the previous uh councils. Um well, let me ask uh Jill. I know when I was city solicitor in Quinsey,
I could hire special counsel for anything and I didn't have to put it. Albeit, this was a long time ago. I uh I wasn't required to RFP anything. I could just Yeah, I don't think it's a requirement. I'm just saying your history what you folks required to I didn't No, it's exempt from the procurement
statute. So, um, airport special counsel, I don't believe that there was an RFP for that. Um, so in this case, are we required to have an RFP for for regular town council? I No, it's it's up to the board. No.
Um, so and you acknowledge that, Stuart, that it's not Yeah, it's not required. That's clear. I guess what I would say in response to that uh to your suggestion, I know I've been on the board, I'm in my 11th year. I' I've we've had in that time I've had
limited some limited uh interaction with Mr. Clifford. It's mostly been Jamie Kenny. I think she's been done an excellent job for us and the the hourly rates are uh 250 an hour.
Uh god, you can't get that anywhere. Um, and um, there's a monthly flat flat fee that allows for unlimited um, you know, access by phone and email. So, I personally don't see the need for for doing it. I don't see the advantage of
doing it at this time, but I'll open it up for for other comment from the board. Those are my thoughts. Corey, I'll keep my comments relatively simple. I very much appreciate Stuart's analysis and review and, you know, bringing up a conversation. Um, but for me it keeps I
I'm g keep it very simple. I don't have a reason to um want to change this council. I don't there's nothing that I've seen in the 10 plus years I've been here that um concerned me. Um I think our our council has been um um of of higher standards.
It's it they've done a good job. They've you know we've haven't been been a lot of interaction but the interaction we have had has always been I think very professional. So, um, there's nothing that inclining me to to change counsel or look for other counsel at the moment.
Um, so I'm really fine with the status quo to be honest with you. Any comments from anybody else on the board? Mr. Chairman. Yes. I move to approve the town manager's engagement of Clifford and Kenny LLP as special labor council for the town. Second.
Okay. Did you want to expand the word approved to in include also uh ratify or whatever? It's says it first. It says approve. Approve. Approve. Okay. Okay. And it's been moved and seconded. Is there are there any any discussion on that motion? Okay. I'll
call the role. Miss Davis. I. Mr. Dyens. Hi. Mr. Matters. Hi. Mr. Smith. No. And the chair votes I. So it's four to one. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'll accept the last motion of the evening. Mr. Chair, a motion to adjurnn.
Is there a second? Second. Okay. Call the RO. Miss Davis. I. Mr. Dykins. Hi. Mr. Meadows. Hi. Mr. Smith. I. And the chair votes I. We are adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Good night. [Music] [Music]