Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the November 18th, 2025 meeting of the Town of Cadam Select Board. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the
meeting, including the use of AI AI note takingaking apps, please notify the chair. Seeing none, pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28th, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extending certain CO 19 measures adopted during
the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 38 Section 20 until June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Cadam Select Board is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can
adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling the phone number 158-945-4410. conference ID 203 386491
pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Chattam TV Xfinity channel 1072 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide real-time access. We
will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. First order of business businesses to establish a quorum. Miss Davis >> present. >> Mr. Dykins >> present. >> Mr. Matters >> present. >> Mr. Smith >> present. >> And the chair is present. We have a very
lengthy agenda so we'll try to proceed expeditiously. First item of business is to approve a set of minutes from November 4th, 2025. Is there a motion to approve? >> Motion to approve. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Uh the chair has one correction. Does
anyone else have any corrections? On page two, under Roman numeral 2, the second paragraph, after the um second sentence in the fifth line, after the phrase local
shelter period, I would like to insert the following sentence. Chair Niccastro declined the request due to open meeting law considerations. Chair Niccastro declined the request dur due to open meeting law considerations.
With that, I'll take a vote. Miss Davis, >> I. >> Mr. Dykins, >> abstain. >> Mr. Matters. >> I. >> Mr. Smith, >> I. >> And the chair votes I. So, it's 41. 401. Next. Public announcements and agenda
item requests. Um, uh, the chair has a couple, but I'll defer until we hear from others. Any u board members with no requests? Mr. Smith. >> Yeah, thank you Dean. Uh la last week I had the um opportunity to and I uh with
with some others to attend the uh event at the fire station recognizing um some employees who really uh did their uh did their utmost and um kind of um above and beyond to a to a
degree. Um, apparently a medical emergency had been brought to the uh police station. Uh and in the police station lobby, the there was four officers uh that uh conducted,
you know, life-saving um actions to uh save the person. And those were Sergeant Liz Thompson, uh Sergeant Christopher Vardkus, Officer Richard Spalding, and Officer Joseph Pagleio. uh and I thought that um you know it's
appropriate that we not only recognize them at the uh fire station but the elected officials do so as well. Additionally, um Deputy Harbor Master, uh Marshall Burke, um came across a serious motor vehicle
accident in North Chadam and um uh really performed life-saving medical uh medical um care until uh paramedics could show up and just wanted to recognize those folks. >> Thank you. Well, well stated. Any others from the board? Any public announcements
or agenda item requests from the audience? Miss Giorgio? Hello. Thank you. Um I'm here to invite you and uh your listeners in the audience to um a community um town hall listening session that the health
department is doing um in conjunction with U Chadam, excuse me, with Brewster Haritch, Orleans and Dennis. Um this is the purpose of this is to um to uh
solicit feedback um for the use of the the opioid settlement funds that the town of Chadam has received as well as the other communities that I listed. The event is tomorrow in the community center from 6 to 7:30. And there's the
poster. Um you can attend in person or you can attend up via Zoom. Um we hope to get feedback from people in the community that have have lived or living experience um with u the subject of substance use. Uh we have quite a bit of funding and we would like to know what
people think the gaps are and the use of funding and services in the town. So again I'd like to invite people to that. It's tomorrow at 6 o'clock at the community center. um that is online uh on the website and they you can uh also there is a survey this little scan me
there's a survey people can take and we if you can't attend the meeting I'd really appreciate if everybody could take the survey as well any questions >> thank you Judy our health agent thank you very much >> thank you >> any others from the audience or online
okay I wanted to mention a couple of things first of all I really want to compliment the public ceremonies committee for the veteran veterans day um remembrance last week. I thought it was really first class and I think uh those who attended were very moved by
it. Secondly, um I've been asked to mention that donations for the Jamaican hurricane relief efforts are being accepted through Saturday, November 22nd, 2025. They may be dropped off at the Chattam Community Center. And finally, um I want to turn to the board
on a scheduling matter. Um, it's been brought to my attention that the town manager's working group on the center for active living, which is meeting, I guess, tomorrow, may possibly finalize its recommendations that are going to come to the board um either tomorrow,
maybe at another session. But, um, that presentation to us is probably going to take an hour or an hour and a half. And I'm thinking we should perhaps the town manager I have conferred about about this possibly um call for a special meeting of the select board and um I
guess we wanted to see the availability. Um Kathy has sent us some dates. I don't think we've shared them with the rest of the board. Maybe rather than try to resolve anything tonight, we just get that that those dates mostly their daytime meetings late afternoon in the
following week or so. Any thoughts on can we just do the dates? >> Yeah, we'll >> Well, go ahead. Do you want to There were multiple. Why don't you read them off, Kathy, if you get them? >> Well, Kathy's looking forward. So, it's tenatively scheduled for the meeting of
December 2nd, and um we're meeting uh the working group tomorrow to work through um scheduling, presentation, bidding, and all of that. So, I'm hoping by the end of the meeting, we'll have a better idea. So, it was going to need to be maybe 60 or 90 minutes at the
December 2nd meeting or if we have a separate meeting. Um, we have a couple of dates and Kathy will go through. I just haven't consulted yet with the working group, but just to expedite the scheduling with you. Um, here's a couple of dates except for there's a Friday
listed as availability. Um, but we don't at this time have Chattam TV available on Friday. So, we might have to work around that. >> Yes. Excuse me. So, Monday, December 1st, um the meeting room is available any time prior to 3:45 or following the
board of health at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday, December 2nd, the meeting room is available anytime between 1:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m. >> And we have a regular meeting. >> You have a regular meeting that you want to start it earlier >> if you Yeah.
um Wednesday, December 3rd, 12:30 to 4 pm or following the historic business uh district committee commission um at 6:30. Um and then Thursday, December 4th,
anytime between 9:00 a.m. and 1:45 p.m., the zoning board of appeals is in from 2 to 6:30. So if you wanted a later meeting that night, but those are >> You said that on on Wednesday the 3 that that room is available anytime after when?
>> Uh it's available between 12:30 p.m. and 400 p.m. or following the HBDC at 6:30 p.m. >> We could do an evening meeting like at 6:30. I don't know if that works for people. I I I'm reluctant to see this on a
regular board meeting because I think it's just going to take a very long period of time. >> Makes sense. >> Does that does that particular date and time >> if it's after the HBDC? >> Yeah. >> If it's after the HBDC for me, I can't do anything during that day. >> Yeah. Will they finish up by 6:30? We'll
have this room available with broadcast. I haven't looked at their agenda for that date, but I can talk tomorrow with um their staff leaison and and see. >> Corey, does that work for you? >> The third at 6:30. I can I can do >> Jeff? >> I can do it as well.
>> Why don't we tenatively set it for 6:30 on December 3rd? >> Yeah. And I'll confirm with the the team and the working group. >> Let us all know. >> Y >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next, we have uh two public
hearings. Um, first is to consider a petition from NStar Electric Company doing business as Eversource Energy to install 35 ft plus or minus of 1 to 3 in conduit and one new handhole 30/ HA2 at 229 Scattery Road Chadam. And I think
the rightway agent Merca Jackson is online. But first, I'll ask the clerk to read read the notice. Thank you. >> Town of Cadam Select Board public hearing notice. The Chattam Select Board will hold a public hearing at 5:30 p.m.
on the uh Tuesday, November 18th, 2025 in the large meeting room of the town office annex 261 George Ryder Road, Chadam, Mass and remotely via Microsoft Teams platform to consider a petition from Nstar Electric doing business as
Eversource Energy to install 35 feet plus or minus of 1 to 3 in conduit and one new handhold 30 SLH A2 on Scattery Road. This construction is necessary to provide new underground
service to a customer located at 229 Scattery Road. The public is welcome to attend the meeting in person or participate via the link the meeting posted agenda. >> Thank you. We'll open the hearing. Marissa, this looks uh to be in order. Did you would do you have anything you want to tell us,
please? Um just that I'd like to make note that I did confirm we'd be able to mole under the road for you. >> Okay. Any questions u comments? >> Any from the public?
No one online. So is there a motion? >> Chairman, I move approval. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Moved and seconded. Call the role. Mr. Miss Davis. >> I. >> Mr. Dyken. >> Hi. >> Mr. Mr. Meadows. I >> Mr. Smith
>> I >> chair votes eye. It is approved. Thank you. Thank you Marissa. >> Thank you. >> Next is to consider >> Thank you. >> consider a public hearing to consider an application to transfer the all annual all alcoholic beverages restaurant license from Scorpios Enterprises in
doing businesses not landing Bar and Grill. Philip Molita's manager to Uncle Tony's LLC doing businesses not landing Bar and Grill. Sophia Molita manager for the business located at 1077 Main Street. Cadam. I'll ask the clerk to read the public hearing notice. Town of
Cadam Select Board public hearing notice notice is hereby given that the Chattam Select Board will hold a public hearing on Tuesday, November 18th, 2025 at 5:30 p.m. in the large meeting room at the town office annex 261 George Ryder Road
Chattam and remotely via the Microsoft Teams platform to consider the transfer of the annual all alcoholic beverage restaurant license from Scorpio's Enterprise uh doing business as Nuts Landing Bar and Grill
Philip Matias manager to Uncle Tony Tony's LLC doing business as Knots Landing Bar and Grill. Sophia Malia, manager for the business located at 1077
Main Street, Cadam. All interested parties are encouraged to participate. >> Thank you. And we'll open the hearing. And I see attorney Jamie Norcross and the principal. >> Thank you. Uh good evening. Jamie Norcross on behalf of Uncle Tony's LLC. Uh with me is Sophia Molita. Uh Sophia
and her brother Phil after operating in town for many many years made the difficult decision to sell their business. Um Sophia is going to be remaining on to uh run the restaurant is going to be the manager of record for the liquor license as well. Uh so with that happy to answer any questions
relative to the application. >> Sophia, did you have anything you wanted to say? >> Just we're still there. >> Quite a change. >> Quite a change here in chat. >> Um so any questions or comments from the board? Corey, >> just one real simple one because usually
we have these transfers and we have the ownership entities that who are out of town. Uh obviously Sophia, um 40 hours is probably a light week on your traditional. So document-wise, you're recorded as an on-site manager at 40 hours a week. Um you've been definitely
available far beyond that. Um do you have any other additional managers that may be um adding to the team at some point? Just so you know, obviously when you're not there to deal with accessibility of any issues. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's their plan.
>> Okay. That's that's it. >> Jeff, you had >> So, I was just going to reaffirm that you're going to be there managing the managing the restaurant. Yes. >> Managing the bar and stuff. Okay. Thank you. >> Good hands. >> Uh any other questions? >> I just had um one added onendum A under
the um proposed officer interest. It's it's the second to last page. Uh there's just one blank that one block that wasn't checked under the LLC manager Thomas R. Kennedy uh US citizen. I I I know the answer is yes because he
checked it. Yes. Elsewhere you see >> Oh, I see that. Yep. We can submit an >> and my one question who is actually going to um have the license? Is it the Uncle Tony's LLC or Hold Co. LLC? >> Uncle Tony's LLC will be the license holder. Um they just as part of the ABC
ab ABCC application, you have to list when it's uh the different ownership levels. >> Okay. >> That >> I just have a question for S. Is the cuisine going to change? What's you going to >> Right now, everything's going to stay the same. That's Landing and New England Pizza. >> We're happy to hear that.
>> Thank you. Any uh comments or questions from the public? >> And none online. Okay. I'll accept the motion. >> Mr. Chairman, I move approval. >> Is there second? >> Moved and seconded. I'll call the role. Miss Davis. >> Hi. >> Mr. Dykin. >> Hi. >> Mr. Meadows. >> Hi.
>> Mr. Smith. >> Hi. >> Chair votes. I. >> Congratulations. Good luck. >> Thank you. >> Next. Um, we have listed a consent agenda, but that's because we're required to under our protocols. We have no items for the consent agenda tonight.
We'll move on therefore to Cadam Wells PAS and drinking water testing and pumping on date update for October 2025 with the director of public works, Mr. Phale. Welcome. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh Rob Philly, director of public works. So, I'm just
going to go over the um October monthly water report. So, the wells have been pumping six to 15 hours per day for last month. There was a low-level alarm just on single time on 106, which was a Monday. Um, as far as the uh project for wells
five and eight, um, you can see here in some of the pictures, the architectural work continues. This is, uh, a chemical containment area. Um, a lot of the exterior doors and windows are done. Painting is almost complete. Uh, the cabinetry in the lab has been installed.
Um, a lot of the process piping continues. Um, you could see some of the Lexan panels going up. Those are for uh removal of the large um um what do you want to call them? The big tanks that hold the green sand and
the gak filters. Um but everything is um moving along very nicely. Uh just wanted to touch base on this was uh clerk Smith last month when I had a had my report. Um he commented about um
the sign out front. I guess the the issue was the Morton Road treatment plant. I think it was maybe it would look too industrial. Um I confirmed that the new plant will have a smaller but similar sign. On the plans it shows 4
feet x 5 feet. This one I didn't measure it but I estimated at about 3 feet by 12 feet. Um it is does have like um fake wooden columns on either end and it's a pretty much a weatherproof panel that notifies the address and what the plan
is. Um a similar one is proposed for Wells 5 and 8. >> Yeah. And thank you. Um, my only point about the Morton Road one, cuz I was kind of in some of the discussions when they put it up, was it didn't need to be where they originally put it, which was out by the road, and it certainly didn't
need to be that big. Um, something half that size is probably more than sufficient, and um, you know, doesn't have to doesn't have to grab vehicles as they go by, but thank you. >> Understood. And I think you'll get your wish. So hopefully
uh so we go to uh now wells 10 and 11. So um so as you know last month I reported that well 10 is pumping into the the town's water. Um D required us to do a test of the combined water with 10 and
11 a POS test. It came back at 6.31 parts per trillion, which is below the Massachusetts standard of 20 parts per trillion, and it's still well below the the 10 parts per trillion that would require us to do more frequent testing. Um, but as you know, EPA has proposed a
four parts per trillion. Uh, that was pushed back from uh 2029 date. Now it's 2031. Uh, who knows what the the status will be going down the road, but I have consulted with Weston and Samson. Um, we're going to have a contract with them
to kind of do a study, give us a path forward. What's the best opportunity for us to treat water at 10 and 11 so it can continuously supply Chadam's water could be something that's seasonal. I mean, I know there's room inside the plant. We
can do some smaller tanks. We can do something where if we're only pumping in the summer, we can they have like these package plants that you can bring in. Um they're prefab and you just set them in the parking lot basically and run the water through them or we could do something more robust. So they'll they'll give us some proposals, some
discussion points and things if we want to go forward with one of those plans. That'll be something on a future report. I'm happy to answer any questions if you have any on that. >> Well, Rob, so the levels right now are at safe levels. are below any standard
that that we need to be comparing ourselves against. >> That's correct. And it's still being combined with all the other water in Chadam, which is all non-detect. So, it's all it's being uh diluted quite a bit. So, that's just the water as it's being pumped uh combined from wells 10 and 11. >> Okay. Thanks,
>> Rob. So, when you combine it and you mix it with the rest of the water, obviously that number comes down. >> Correct. >> Any idea what that number is? Is it below the four, do you think, or? >> Oh, yeah. Well below the four. Well, it probably lower than one. Um, >> great.
>> It's just because wells 10 and 11 aren't these really high producing wells, right? >> You've got like South Chadam wells one, two, and three that are are adding a lot of water. Um, it's all diluting it even further. So, I'd say it's probably in the a fraction of one. >> Thank you.
So, for the irrigation meter update, so again, 635 letters went out on August 22nd. Um, we've been making some good progress. Um, we'd sold over $88,000 in irrigation meters, which was 441 at the
writing of this letter of this uh memo. Um, 294 additional irrigation meters have been installed. Um, right now I know we are down to about 12 people who are still being fined. Um, we
are booking out appointments into March at this point for plumbers. So those people who have already booked appointments, we're no longer fi finding. We put it on a pause. They're in the process. Um, we're really not going to make too many more decisions until we can get that backlog caught up.
water sampling for the months of October. Again, uh we discussed Morton Road and Indian Hill were both non-detect for POS 6. Uh just as things of note in this report, well four uh the shaft had failed. Uh the motor and pump are good.
So we uh we ordered a new shaft and couplings and that'll be installed. It's already Well, four is already shut down for the winter season anyway. So, we'll do those repairs in early spring and uh and when well Ford does the seasonal startup, uh that'll be uh all new shaft
in there for that to work. Nothing else noteworthy in there. Um here is the October 24 to October 25 comparison. We are right on the money. Um 0% difference. 16,000 gallons, which
is pretty negligible. Um, again, here is looking at um a bar chart or a graph showing the same information. Um, you can see in the beginning of the month, we're up around one and a half to two million gallons per day, but towards the tail end of the
month, we're down under a million gallons per day. That trend will continue to decline as the winter season wears on. And this is the bar chart showing the same information and the October monthly pumping report.
This shows the uh the el the level of effort for each well. Um you see Indian Hill well four that we talked about when the shaft broke on um October 9th. Um and then well 10 started up about
midway through the month. So, um I think well shows well 10 and 11 are producing a little bit more than they had in months past. Again, here's that bar chart kind of showing that level of effort as well.
And here's the year-to- date pumping report. 420 million gallons so far. We're about 13 and a half million lower than last year. Again, here's that uh total year-to- date pumping graph.
Sorry if I'm going too fast. I just don't want I know it's a busy meeting, so I just You've seen a lot of this before. So, uh unmetered water usage with 1.2 million gallons. Most of that's for flushing and blowoffs at this point. No hydrant flushing occurring this time
of year. And there's a graph showing the unmetered water usage. And here is the five-year pumping comparison for the month of October. Uh you could see last year and this year very close even though the hours are
lower this year and I think that's just because we have you know wells 10 and 11 are online. Even well 11 was online last year but it's uh it's helping it's helping reduce the hours. And this next slide is the Cadam USGS observation well.
It appears that groundwater has started its seasonal recharge. Uh although it it did spike and it's kind of stagnant for now. Uh it floundered a bit last year as you can see with the um with the fluctuations. Um time will tell. You
know, we've had some pretty good rain recently. Um, I know we've had um four uh I'm sorry, six to eight inches of rain in October, which is four inches more than usual. So, that's that's definitely a help. Um, again, time will
tell. And here's the Brewster observation well. Again, this is more of the bell weather for seasonal conditions and groundwater levels on the Cape. Um, again, it looks like it's doing a seasonal recharge, but it has a little bit of a of kind of a hiccup there. So,
um we can only look back after after it reports. So that's the best way to tell is um going down the road. And a drought update. Um Massachusetts drought task force met on November 6th to review the conditions. Uh again, it's
good news. We received quite a bit of rain. Uh the recommendations to the Secretary of Energy and Environmental Affairs is that Cape Cod remain at level two. So I would uh I know the water and sewer advisory committee met last week and
they endorsed remaining at level two as well. So that's all I have for you unless you have any questions. Thank you Rob. Excellent report per usual. Um I do notice that on the chart um precipitation on the Cape 12 months was
19. I assume that's inches. No, that's a um it's a rate of um like it's a zero to 100 rate and they and they have a category. It's all >> southeastern mass for six months had 69.
>> Um it's just the Cape and Islands are really doing poorly. Any questions from the board or from the audience? Okay, thank you Rob. >> Okay, thank you. >> Next uh public comments on the business agenda. This is for anyone who wishes to speak now. Um, we do have
contemporaneous public comment later on on individual items. I don't Yes. Elaine Gibbs. >> Yes. Thank you, Elaine Gibbs. This is regarding the select board's goals and objectives later on in the evening. Um the primary responsibility of government
in my view is public safety and uh in looking at the vision statement and the current six goals in no particular order it's not listed. Uh the last time you reviewed this I did ask that public
safety be included because I think it is again the most important function of municipal government. Um, so I would ask that in in reviewing this document, it's seven pages long and when I requested it
last time, there were two little words added at the end of the seven pages and it said public safety. I'd like to see that be included in your goals so that instead of the six current goals, there are seven. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Elaine. Anyone else? Okay, now we'll go on to the business agenda. Um, we have a bunch of seasonal liquor licenses, most related to the holidays, I think all of them. Um, discussion of town council review of letters relative to 127 Old Harbor Road and a vote on
whether to proceed with the design guidelines. Um discussion on the use of the consent agenda. Discussion on landscaping and signage at pumping stations. Uh recommendation for from the uh golf advisory committee regarding an increase
in golf rates. Recommendation of the parks and recck commission to grandfather certain businesses under the facility use policy. Goals and objectives of the select board and then um committee appointment for the open space committee. So we'll proceed one by one. We'll start with um
considering requests to extend certain uh seasonal liquor licenses. Consider special 1-day licenses for the holiday stroll. The first is for Michael's Custom Jewelry December 12th, 2025 from 5:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. at 579 Main
Street, Cadam. >> Shauna. >> Yes. So, first I wanted to Shauna, licensing agent. Uh first I wanted to request the board um >> Oh, yes. I skipped over. I'm sorry. Okay. >> This is a separate item. This is to extend seasonal liquor licenses. Why don't you present that, please?
>> Sure. Give your annual approval to allow seasonal lences to extend service under their liquor licenses through um January 15th is the latest date with approval by the select board. You can see in the report, Vieira on Maine is requesting through um New Year's Eve, Pisces
through and Captain's Table through January 1st, and Chattamoods and Chattam Sunrise Cafe through January 15th. Thank you. Do I have a motion? >> Motion to approve >> as recited. Um, is there a second? >> Secited. >> Second.
>> Okay. Uh, any discussion? >> All right. I'll call the role. Um, M. Davis. >> I. >> Mr. Dykins. >> Hi. >> Mr. Meadows. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I. >> Chair votes. I. Thank you, Shauna. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Now we'll go on to Michael's Custom Jewelry. Um, yes. Please come identify
yourself, sir. >> I'm I'm Mike from Michael's Jewelers. for you. >> Thank you. Um, so did you want to say anything about this? Uh, >> I'm looking for the license from um 5:00 p.m. to 10 p.m. and the stroll, the wine license.
>> Okay. Did did we uh did we get his last name? >> I have it. Yes. Burst. >> Okay. Um, any any questions or comments from the board? >> Is there a motion and a second? >> Move approval. >> Second. >> All right. Call the role. Uh, Miss
Davis. Hi, Mr. Dykins. Hi, Mr. Meadows. Hi, >> Mr. Smith. >> Hi, >> Chair Votes. Hi. Thank you. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >> Next is the Black Dog General Store, December 12th, 2025 from 5:00 p.m. to 7 o'clock p.m. And December 31st, 2025
from 3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. at 6:28 Main Street, Cadam. Uh, and um Kianne >> Kerenne Long is here. She's online with us. online. Um, Kerenne Long. >> Yes. Hi. >> Yes. Do you want to tell us anything
about this? >> Um, it's just we're serving um the black dog um wine for the stroll on December 12th and on December 31st for first night. Um just for a portion of the
evening. >> Okay. Thank you. Any questions or comments? >> Is there a motion? >> No. Move approval, Mr. Chairman. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Miss Davis. >> Hi. >> Mr. Dikkins. >> Hi. >> Mr. Meadows. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I.
>> Chair Bodai. 5 to zero. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, >> thank you. >> Yellow umbrella. December 12th, 2025 from 5:00 p.m. to 10 p.m. at 501 Main Street, Chattam. And I think we have Miss Mr. Linder.
Eric Linder, Yellow Umbrella Books. Um, looking to serve champagne or sparkling wine from 5:00 p. p.m. to 10 p.m. on Friday night, the night of of the stroll.
>> Thank you. Any questions or comments, Corey? No, I just the public doesn't usually probably look at all this, but I I do like your map. You know, we got references for Canada and Europe and Mexico and >> Well, I I appreciate that. >> I, you know, thought I should have a
rudimentary knowledge of geography in order to uh serve up alcohol on the stroll. >> No. Um, I move approve. I move approval. >> It's Is there a second to Mr. Meadow? >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. We'll call the role. Miss Davis. >> Hi.
>> Mr. Dykins. >> Hi. >> Mr. Meadows. Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> Hi. >> Chair votes. Hi. Good luck. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you. >> You don't need a compass. >> Um, next is Mahi Gold. December 12th from 3:00 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. and December
13th from 12:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. at 465 Main Street, Cadam. And um, who is Sam Johnson? Is he here? >> Yep. >> Oh, yes. >> Online. Yes. Please proceed. >> Online. Yeah. So, we we've done it in the past
before. Uh we did it for October Fest. We're looking to do Friday, Saturday for stroll. Um and then our bartenders, quote unquote bartenders, so myself, my wife, we're tip certified now with it. So, let's vote out. >> Okay. Any questions or comments? Is there a motion? >> Move approval. >> Is there a second?
>> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Um Miss Davis. >> I miss Mr. Dyken. >> Hi. >> Mr. Matters. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I. >> Chair votes. >> Thank you. Good luck. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Sundance Clothing, December 12th, 2025 from 5:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. at 497 Main
Street. Shadam and um Paper Cabra, are you there online? >> Um actually, this is Ma Mr this is Meredith, her assistant manager. Okay. >> At the store. >> Hi. How are you? Good. >> So, we'd like to apply for our special license for the night of the stroll from 5 to 10.
>> Okay. Um any questions or comments? Any motion? I just want to say >> go ahead, please. >> I was going to say we uh will be serving procco. The owner will be checking IDs at the back of the store and we plan to have two people at the front door to
make sure the cups don't go out. Leaving with alcohol. Okay. Per usual. >> Thank you. Um Mr. Chairman, move approval. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Miss Mr. Miss D Miss Davis. >> Um yes,
>> Mr. Mr. Dikkins. >> Hi, >> Mr. Meadows. >> I >> Mr. Smith, >> I >> chair votes I. >> Thank you. Good luck. >> Thank you. >> The last is the Squire Shop December 12th, 2025 from 12:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. and December 31st from 12:00 p.m. to
12:00 a.m. at 465 Main Street, Chattam. And um and Day. >> Hi, I'm And Day. I'm one of the managers at the Squire Shop. Um we're just planning on serving Squire Logger. Um both myself and my other co-manager are both tip certified and we'll have an
additional staff member by the door to make sure no one is exiting the premises without dumping their cup. >> Okay. Um Shauna, did you have something you wanted to say? Because I I had a question. Have we have we've allowed um on these dates in the past the service
to go till midnight? >> No. The latest service that the board has approved is until 10 p.m. Um, and I did want to express that these are all sent through Chief Anderson and he did express concern about having this um approved until midnight.
>> Um, >> any comments or questions from the board, Corey? No, I just I just think um to have a you know successful event, keeping the 10 o'clock kind of curfew we've put in place is is is equitable and it keeps in line with the event and
loves transition for everything else later on. So, I mean I'm comfortable as long as we just um let it go until 10 p.m. like every other license that we've been permitting. So, that's just my my opinion. >> Miss Jay, do you have any >> No, that's response to that. You can live with
>> submit something else. >> Okay. Any other questions or comments? >> Okay. Is there a motion? And the motion would amend each day till uh to end at 10:00 p.m. on the 12th of December and the 31st of December. Mr. Chairman, I
move approval of the request for two special 1-day alcohol licenses for wine and malt beverages only for December 12th, 2025 from 12:00 noon to 1000 p.m. and for December 31st, 2025 from 12 noon to 10 10 p.m. at 488 Main Street Cadam for the holiday stroll weekend.
>> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Call the role. Miss Davis, >> Mr. Dykins. >> Hi. >> Mr. Meadows. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I. >> And the chair votes I. >> Good luck. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, next on the agenda, discussion of
town council review of legal letters on 127 Old Harbor Road and a vote on whether to proceed with the design guidelines. This was continued from our meeting of October 7th, 2025. Um, I do want to u make a few introductory
remarks. Um, 127 Old Harbor Road and the subject of housing has been before this board a number of times over the past several years. Um, we've had split votes in the past on whether to put housing. I think my
credentials historically in opposing housing on that property and keeping that for other municipal purposes are impeccable. Um at the same time in the year at at annual town meeting on 2023 in 2023
town meeting voted to change the use of this property from um municipal to um housing to and to authorize and direct the select board to uh place um affordable
housing on this particular property. Um and um we have had several meetings over the past year working with our director of housing and sustainability to consider design concepts
and back I believe in June of this year if I have my dates right um a pause was put on whether to proceed with design guidelines. Uh and at that time there was a split vote um not to proceed. Um and I know in
my own case I voted not to proceed because I was not it was not clear to me that anything was going to be done with those guidelines in the immediate future. But that was clarified at our most recent meeting um with the um advice that this would go directly to an
RFP. Um, and it was on October 6th uh that we received um a second set of letters from two law firms uh articulating their legal theories of
opposition to this to proceeding with this. Um and um it was felt um by members of this board, including myself, that we should have our town council take a look at those to advise us uh on whether um it
was okay to be to proceed with with design guidelines. And with that in mind, uh we've asked um Mr. Jay Talman, our town council, to give us some advice on it, which is in the packet. Um and um
before I call on him to ask him to give an oral summation because not everyone may have read what is in our packet. Uh we did receive late this afternoon an email from attorney Michael Ford uh who is one of the two attorneys
involved here. They represent a Butters um and neighbors according to their representation. It's very short. I want to read it because public hasn't had a chance to to read it. It was addressed to the town manager and to myself. References made to the email from town council J. Taloman dated November 13,
2025, contained in today's select board packet. My memo did not address the expiration or enforcement of restrictions governed by chapter 184 general laws chapter 184. As it is my opinion, the gifted issue constitutes a charitable trust unaffected by the
limitation imposed by general laws chapter 184. Please bring this email to the attention of the select board at today's meeting. Mike Ford. With that, I'm going to turn to Jay Talon. And Jay, could you give us a give the public and us a little summary of your advice to us on on this matter?
>> Sure. Um, happy to do it. Um, this is a pretty unique issue, not because I think the law is particularly unique, but because the way the restrictions in the conveyance or the leaving of the property to the town is somewhat unique
in nature. the law. I think we should start with the premise that the recent evolution of the law as it applies to restrictions on property has evolved over time. Um it generally favors as do most jurisdictions
um situations where restrictions are not perpetual. And the current status of the law is such that it chooses and and selects the certain kinds of restrictions that for public policy reasons should be considered perpetual.
And those are generally the conservation restrictions, affordable housing restrictions, historical preservation restrictions, and the recent evolution of chapter 184 of the general laws codifies that. However, there is existing law that preceded the most
recent statutes, which we have to give full faith and credit to. And there's a specific statute that says that restrictions of any type are good for only 30 years provided that uh
restrictions relating to um charitable or public purposes might be perpetual in nature and then there'll be some more about that in a second. Um here we have kind of a unique gift.
It's relatively brief in terms of language and there's two components to the gift and they are not necessarily compatible. They're not necessarily incompatible either, but they're two very different components to the gift at
question here. Um the the gift it was through a will was for two purposes. one for playground purposes on the site and two to maintain the existing buildings on the site. That's doesn't say what
they're to be used for. It doesn't say anything. Obviously, you can't have a playground where the buildings are because the buildings are required to ma be maintained there. The the gift doesn't state what those buildings are to be used for at all. It just says you
have to keep them where they are. So, when being asked to review this and review the law, obviously I read Mr. Castello's prior opinion and some other opinions that predated my review of this and we took a fresh look at it and
reviewed in particular two statutes that are in apparent tension, but I think they can be harmonized. And it's a requirement of anyone that's trying to construct or review statutes that you first try and harmonize statutes before
you say, "Well, one applies or the other." In other words, can both apply? In our in our opinion, both statutes in question can apply. That's chapter 184 sections 23 on one hand and 27 on the
other. So, chapter 184, section 23 required me to look at each of the two components of the gift. One is clearly for a public purpose, the playground. There's no question that that's for a public purpose.
And because it is I find under and in review of the cases it's clear to me that that gift is that part of the gift is perpetual and it survives the usual third year provided that enforcement of that particular
restriction would be unique to the town only. Um we'll get to that in a in a moment as to the gift relating to the maintenance of the public buildings. I've looked at the documents relating to the will. It doesn't say anything about what you're going to use them for. It
doesn't say any purpose whatsoever. In fact, I think as we know currently these buildings are a little bit more of a burden than anything else given their kind of um deteriorating condition. And so it doesn't say what we have to use them for. If it had said to be used for
school purposes or for some other kind or for affordable housing or for something else that had a public purpose to it, I would have concluded that it would be that component of the gift is perpetual as well. I can't reach that
conclusion, however, because there's no purpose whatsoever. And it and I think experience tells us in managing these that we're kind of struggling at this point to keep up with buildings that are really starting to fall apart a little bit. So it doesn't
suggest at all to me that it fits within that public purpose component of it. And so my conclusion and our conclusion in our real estate department as well is that it doesn't meet those terms. In other words, it is then subject to the
30-year limitation under section 23 as well as section 27. And in any event, that enforcement, to the extent that someone else wanted to try and enforce that restriction as still being applicable after 30 years, I find that
the new section 27 would preclude that type of enforcement. the only entity that could enforce is the primary beneficiary of that gift, which is the the town itself. If to the extent there could be a disagreement. Now, there's no exact
case law on this very, you know, unique situation where there's a split of uses and where there's um a use or a gift that has no use attached to it at all. But looking at the history
of the statutes and the preference that restrictions don't go on in perpetuity unless they fit into one of those categories that I've talked about. Our conclusion is that it's it would be very defensible for the board to consider the restriction with respect to the
component of the property where the building is as lasting only for 30 years which was quite some time ago. thereby allowing the board and town meeting to vote to dispose of it if they wanted to. They don't have you don't have to. You could
maintain it in for as long as you like or make other use of the property. I think it's also important to note that for that component of the property, the non-playground portion of the property, there's no other restrictions on the use of that. So to the extent that even you
if you felt that you um were obliged to maintain the existing structure for whatever period that you so desired and it's up to you it's your property. There's other components of that side of the property that where you could do other things with including more
construction on that. So that's it gets a little more nuanced than that. There's some additional uh analysis that we did, but that is the the sum the basic summary of our opinions on this. >> Thank you. Did you want to offer any
comment in regard to Mr. Ford's um recent email concerning concern? >> Well, I I think that um uh attorney Ford, who I have a lot of respect for, he's a fellow town council. He's also a fellow moderator. I'm a moderator as well. He's a good attorney. I think his
comment in that email today was just to note that his opinion isn't based on whether he agrees or disagrees on the issues under chapter 184. He takes a different view of it regarding that he feels it's perpetual because of the the
charitable trust. I don't I see no trust established here. We took a look at that issue. It did not appear germanine to this issue. I understand why he would suggest that, but we don't feel it fits within those set of statutes. We feel that it's a restriction on the land and
that um that component part of it survives and part of it doesn't survive. >> Yeah, I agree with you that he's a he's a fine attorney and b I'm skeptical of seeing about seeing any indisha of trust law uh aspects in this particular
donation. Okay, I'm going to ask throw it open to the board for any questions or comments and then we'll get some public input and then we can get into some deliberation about what to do here because that we had paused this because
we got those letters. council has responded uh and it is his opinion that with respect to the portion of the parcel that is about 41,000 square feet approximately um we can do what we want with it. Corey,
I'll stick my neck neck out first. Um we've had a long history with this convers with this with this parcel a lot of you know feelings and you know and you know I've I've you know been very um stand strong in my feeling about you know the will of Marian Ellis and you
know not going against her will. Um but I also see this process being dragged out unnecessarily. U I'm concerned about you know where we're going to end up landing on this. I mean we we we've we have one parcel that has the playground and the structures. Uh it is one parcel.
There is a fence that does exist on the property. So it is kind of defined about where the playground is and where the the residents and the barn exist also. So it's while not divided as far as on you know property lines you kind of see where the segments are. So um you know
town meeting and I I I cannot dismiss town meeting. town meeting said, you know, we they were presented with we're using the the structures for affordable housing project and they voted in favor of it. Um the downside is the structures
are not as in as good a condition as we we'd hope they were. You know, Chattam hasn't not been the best steward of that property, unfortunately. Um it's in a it's in rough shape. Um I don't know to what extent it can be refurbished, if it's a tear down, whatever. Um,
but I think where I stand right now, I think it is in the best interest of all of us is to to take the a best look on those structures. Whether we get two or three units, I'm
not really sure. Move forward with it. As the will town meeting voted on it before they said, "Let's move forward. We're using this property." Um and then the legal issues that are floating around out there will let it fall where
they may. Um I think if we can, you know, balance this as best as possible, um I think some of the, you know, legal opposition um may soften a little bit or may disappear. I don't know. Um I think I think some of this has to do with
density. Just be blunt about it. But I do think that we can find an compromise. And I I would be I would be perfectly willing to move it forward, you know, reusing the structures, looking hard at them. We have to rebuild them, design them, move them around a little bit. Um,
and then let all the other legal stuff fall in place where it may. So, I'm open to compromise on this one. >> Any other comments from the board, >> Jeff? Sharing. >> Well, yeah. I mean, thank you, Jay. that I thought that was uh an excellent
summation of what turns out to be a fairly nuanced issue. But I also know as a select board member, I now have two different town council opinions that are somewhat coherent and that you know kind of give me or allow us to move forward with the building piece of property the
way we we would like to in the way town meeting voted. So, I'm very I think the what's at uh on the table tonight or what we're discussing tonight is moving forward with design guidelines. I'm not sure whether we're going to move move that's what we postponed if you will a
couple months ago. It wasn't whether going to build two or three houses or rehab this house or whatever. was are we going to approve the design guidelines and approve the expenditure of $15,000 for design guidelines that and I wasn't at the select board meeting that I think it was back in April I was away but you
guys had a I thought a really fruitful meeting where you hashed out two or three different scenarios of what you might consider doing on that property. I think it boiled down to there was one and I haven't gone back and looked but one scenario where there were three
buildings and another one there were two and pretty tasteful buildings not overwhelming the community with two or three even four units therein. Um, so I I I'm not adverse to continuing down that path and getting a vote for
expanding the the 15K for the design guidelines for what was, I believe, a very um fruitful discussion amongst the board members at the time. Um, it has dragged on a long time. Um, I do believe town meeting was resounding in their
support for doing affordable housing here. We don't know what kind of what what the economics of it are, how we're going to define it, whether affordable or attainable, but using this property for that purpose. And um without overwhelming the property, I'm
interested in creating housing. So maybe more than two units, maybe three or four units, but you know, livable units, but two buildings. I'm not interested in building a thousand buildings here. So those are my thoughts. And I thought Jay's handling of
the explanation of what how we could do with the building kind of what we want at this point and that our traveling down an affordable attainable housing use was not untored. It was it's okay. So I'm come very comfortable with his opinion and um I want to move forward.
Thanks. >> Thank you Shereine. >> Thank you Dean and thank you Jay for the explanation of um of of where we're at. Um we had a vote at town meeting to uh direct us to move forward with um housing initiatives on this property and
we got to the design element um the rough the rough uh designs. I think we had a really good meeting when we talked about all of that and um I came away very charged by um by the consensus that the table brought forward. So, I I want
to see that we um go forward with um uh approving um approving $15,000 to um move forward with the design elements. Thanks. >> Thank you, Shireine. Any other comments, Stuart? >> You're going to have public comment.
Yes. And then are we going to have the speak again? I'll wait then. Thanks. >> Okay. Um, I just wanted to make clear that the design concept that we were looking at, the concepts called for um, and I think they were just on the screen, either two structures or three
structures. I personally favored two structures. That's what we have on there now with um the idea that they would be included that would be included in the RFP which would include
an option on the developer to rehab the existing home which we know is in not very good shape because we had a presentation by the building commissioner here. Uh but we wanted to allow for that option. Um, I guess I I'm
I want to hear from the public before deciding which way I want to go on this, but I um I'm sat I'm satisfied uh on the legal side um that we can proceed. Um I would love to see us come away tonight
with something other than a split vote and that may require a little compromise I suspect on the number of units, but that's that's kind of where I'm at at the moment. Corey, >> I I I just want to make sure that I'm, you know, very clear where, you know,
I'm saying is I'm thinking, you know, whatever the mass is of the existing houses, you know, and and I think that we could and I don't know if that's going to be two units or three units. I don't know. But that's kind of where my limit my limit is because that that structure, we want to keep the
streetscape, the feel of the neighborhood. We can move it around a little bit. We could divide it up a little bit. Um, I think there's a little bit of room for growth here and there. Obviously, those structures, that house was designed in a different era. You know, obviously you want to add a little bit here, add a little bit there to make
it a more usable facility. So, there's a little bit of room for growth, but um, I'm looking at a smaller scale type of impact on the property. That's I mean, that's very much where I stand on that. >> Okay. >> Just a question. Yes. Can I ask a
question, Cy? So, are you suggesting that we you you'd like to rehab the current structure. I I'm confused. >> I would love to keep the existing structure. I think the sad reality it is beyond that. So, what I'd like to do is create um something in the spirit of
that structure. To replicate it doesn't make sense. It's it's it's unfortunately, you know, the hallways, the height of the ceilings and everything else doesn't make sense. But to do something in the spirit of replicating it or some kind of feel of that that type of architect um I think
would be very palatable. Um because I do sadly I do think it's beyond repair. I think the design concepts were very much in keeping with the eclectic >> and they were and we have had discussion in prior discussion about having um the structure have evoke the the piece of
property that's there now the LS property that's there now the building itself whether it's a porch or a dormer or something that looks very similar to what what's there now and I think that's certainly acceptable um in the spirit of of the donation so um thanks
>> because of the number of units It's the limited number of units here whether it's two or three or five even six was talked about which is a little probably one more than I would be comfortable with. Um it's going to be a challenge to get
somebody to bid on this unless they want to bid together with stepping stones. That was an idea that we had but the this the sequence of time is not going to work out in that regard. So I just wanted to point that out. Corey. >> Well, well, this is this is a smaller site and I think we've gone through we
have a little more experience as a board on some of this stuff. A larger entity like the ones who is doing some two of our bigger projects, it's not a project for them. It's too small. You know, the the economics are completely different. This is probably more in line for like a
habitat or something on that scale um that can be u more locally done. Um it's just better fit for them. It's it's going to be a different entity that will probably >> if this were an R27 zone which is surrounds this at least on that street
uh builder could come in and subdivide or go before the planning board and he could build two single family homes easily. >> Right. But not to get ahead of ourselves, >> at some point we're going to make a determination of subdividing the property from the playground. Yeah. And
that on paper has never been done. It hasn't been done. >> Yeah. >> Um and that may >> make make some adverts because we that has to be done at >> first. >> Okay. Stuart, your green light is on. >> Yeah. Uh I I guess before I one question
or a couple questions. Um, one to Jeff because he said something that was newer to me being the newer member. Um, that two town councils had opined on in a positive way on this. Mr. Talaman and >> Mr. Costello. >> Mr. Costello. >> Costello.
>> Okay. Um, and is this building historic? >> Katie Donovan. I'm sorry, >> Katie. Is it in the HBDC? It's in it certainly otherwise would fall under the historical commission. >> Right. I'll have to double check about whether or not it's in the HBDC. Um the
HBDC is in that general area, but I can't remember if this house is specifically. I can check that. But it is definitely 75 years or older, which would make it under the jurisdiction of the historical commission. >> So, one of those two com commissions might have jurisdiction over this. >> Yes, that's correct.
>> Unless you went did a 40B and then we we know how that works, >> right? Did you have anything else you want to not >> Does that answer your >> um I guess it does. I'll come back after public comment and and I just I'll just
add that um >> you know I share some of the comments said thus far and that um uh if we do do affordable housing it would uh I'd like to minimize the impact on on the property and do as much as we possibly
can to keep with the wishes of Mrs. Misellis which I believe we can do. Um, I've mentioned it before and we can chat about it further a little bit. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, I'm going to open it up to the public. Anybody in the audience here wish to speak to this?
Carolyn Mlullen. Hello everyone. and Carol Mcclelen, South Jadam. Um, thank you for revisiting this multiple times. Um, I just obviously really want to advocate for you to move forward tonight on approving the um the design guidelines. I know that after we
had the meeting with the test fits, I think it gave everybody a really um a realistic view of what the possibilities were and there was a consensus amongst the group to to realize that there were some parameters there that could be acceptable to many
of us. Um I'm happy that uh Mr. Talon has found uh has declared or has explained that this uh uh restriction is no longer applicable to the the building side. Um so I think hopefully we can
stop litigating this one thing over and over and over again. Town meeting has voted on this. Um we don't have the restriction anymore. whatever we decide, whatever we do right now, I mean, my my obligation and what my commitment is to
try to come up with the best scenario that has the most quality and value. Um, when we when we get an RFP out there and if we get a bid on that so that we can bring that again to the town meeting, they have to vote on it to allocate the funds for development. So, whatever we
do, they're going to get another chance to chime in on it. We're not going to do anything without consensus. So that's on us to come up with the best scenario. So um I just hope that uh we can follow through on that commitment of honoring town meeting, delivering the best
product, and then bring it back to town meeting and hopefully getting a consensus to move forward. Obviously, we need we need affordable housing. There's a lot of push back on the the Penrose developments. This is home ownership. This is small scale. This supposedly is
what everybody wants. Um, I also wouldn't get hung up too much on the the number of units and try to focus on the scale of the houses. Obviously, if they're one-bedroom unit, they're a lot smaller than a three-bedroom unit. So, keep that in mind for the proportion of
the buildings. Um, if we have smaller units in there, it's obviously not as going to be as big as as other units. and remind you that every other week the ZBA is issuing permits for four, five, six, 7,000 square foot homes on a
regular basis. So there things for you to consider. Thank you. >> Thank you Carolyn. Anybody else? Elen Gibbs. Thank you, Elaine Gibbs. Uh, the property, that house was built in 1893, and I can't believe we don't know that when we've been dealing with this for so
many years. A select board member has argued it's dishonorable to have ignored and not maintained the building at 127. Ignoring and neglecting municipal buildings isn't new to Chadam. the historic Eldridge garage, fire station,
police station, elementary school, middle school, council on aging, community center, and burst pipes at 127 are examples of the town's neglect, not the taxpayers. Maintenance has never been a priority. Mrs. Ellis's wishes,
read here many times, specifically instructed the building be maintained, and the town did not do that. to argue now that only the playground and a dedication sign is sufficient to fulfill her wishes, though convenient uh is
flawed in my opinion. It's one parcel, not two. And Mrs. Ellis's cautisil was clear that no new buildings were to be built through the land subdivided. And that fence was not put up in 1957
um or in 1971 when she died. I believe that was done after wearing down voters by requesting only 15,000 tonight and then arguing to proceed because we spent 15,000 is a pattern. It's sort of mission creep. There's no deed to the
town of Chadam with the Barnesville County of Records. I requested a copy from the town manager's office. Only the 1909 deed for Mrs. Ellis's husband, Augustus C. Ellis who died in 1957 was provided with the explanation there is
no document matching your specific request. The record you asked for does not exist and that would include the will and trust. The only thing they have is the cautisil. Even with a will and cautisil, a deed is a legal instrument that conveys title to the municipality.
Without a deed, the transfer may be considered incomplete, leading to legal risks regarding property rights. The solution to the 30 years versus in perpetuity question shouldn't be a war of attorney uh case law opinions about
loopholes especially when the town's decision to move forward and build this housing will be irreversible. And I think tonight's discussion is a good example. We have two more opinions uh that again are are totally different from before. it can be easily uh
settled. At the January 11th, 2022 select board meeting when three of you were present. Town Council Costello advised you to get an opinion from the Attorney General's public charities division that's responsible for the proper application of charitable
municipal gifts and preventing breaches of trust and the intent of the uh donation. Uh he provided uh a copy of his written opinion which
was in uh the minutes of those meetings and there was to be a referral to the attorney general and a cyp prey uh doctrine ruling from the superior court in order to alter the terms of the gift from in perpetuity to 30 years. A
charitable gift of land to a municipality in perpetuity is generally not subject to the 30-year limitation and is wellestablished exception to the rule against perpetuities. When land is donated and accepted with perpetual
restrictions, as was the case here in 1971, the municipality assumes a perpetual responsibility for management and enforcement to honor the donor's intent. So they knew when they took it in 1971 it was in perpetuity. Under Mass
General Law chapter 214 section 10B the SC prey doctrine allows the superior court to modify the purpose of a charitable gift if it's becomes impractical but it must be consistent with the donor's original intent. The 30-year rule, which would normally
extinguish such restrictions, doesn't apply to gifts uh for charitable purposes without a superior court sip prey ruling. instead of uh instead of being ignored had attorney Costello's opinion and recommendation been followed three and a half years ago, I don't
believe we would be here today. If you proceed without clear title, a deed to the town, and without a definitive cyp ruling from the superior court, and attempt to build affordable housing under the 30-year rule, it will likely be in violation of the exemption of a
charitable gift to a municipality allowing in perpetuity and more litigation. What is dishonorable and hypocritical is to ignore or attempt to circumvent Mrs. Ellis's very clear wishes and intent,
instead looking for loopholes at every turn, while at the same time praising the wishes of Kate Ghoul's bequest to the town at her death. This is a classic case of situational ethics, doing what is ethically right only when it's
convenient. And I hope you will take the time. All you have to do is contact the attorney general's office. they proceed to the superior court and get a legal ruling because right now we are having battles of attorney opinions and threats
and there is no clear title in my view to this. We may not own the property. It is conceivable that there were transgressions and mistakes made after probate where a deed was never generated. And again in 1971 when town
meeting voted and they took it and they turned over the keys they did so knowing it was in perpetuity and that in itself was a commitment by this town to honor her wishes. Thank you. >> Thank you Wayne. Um Jay did you have any
comment on the absence of a deed because this was a will that was presumably um entered into probate and approved there. >> Right. So the it's a tricky area um or misunderstood area. When when land passes through a will, provided the will
is administered in an appropriate and normal way, a deed isn't required. It's often convenient and helpful and for chain of title purposes, but it's not a requirement. And I think the reason it's not a requirement is because sometimes there's no one that's either willing to
sign the deed or available to to sign the deed. Obviously, it's part of a an estate. So, but you don't it's not absolutely required that you have a deed. If it's a if it's land court title, we might have to file a petition, but that's a pretty routine
administrative matter. If it's not land court title, then we can convey based upon the the probated will. >> Yeah. Thank you. I just want to make a comment on the charitable argument and I appreciate what Miss Gibbs said and I
read Mr. Ford's opinions. I don't see any charitable notion in either of her uh two parts to her donation. It's it's a gift to a municipality. There's no trust.
Um it's not a charitable purpose. And I doubt whether her estate at that time 1971 I question whether her estate in 1971 would have been able to take this as a charitable deduction on her inheritance tax.
>> Yeah, I'm not a I'm not a tax attorney, so I can't answer that last part, but yeah, I don't I don't view this as falling within that body of law. >> City solicitor in Quinsey. Gifts to the city were not charitably deductible back then. I was solicitor in the 70s. Um,
I'm sorry, in the 80s. Anyway, um, I'll leave it at that. Any other comments? Yes, Brian Phillips. Uh, for the record, Brian Phillips, 374 Road. I guess this is for uh, Mr. Attorney Talerman. Um,
regarding the wishes of the Ellis property and the will. Um, where would I find the will so I could read it myself? >> I think it's I think it's online part of the >> packet packet tonight. >> Well, it's not in tonight's packet. I
think it >> the previous one. >> Yeah, >> it's in a cautisil to the will. >> Yeah, >> it's an addendum to the will. It's a simple paragraph. It's actually recited in um Mr. Ford's letter of October 6th. >> I think the other important document too there is there's an older town meeting
vote to accept it where it reiterated like almost verbatim the purposes >> yes >> of the of the gift to the town because the town did vote to accept it at a town meeting as they're required to do. >> Does that answer your question Brian?
>> Uh yes I have more. Um, >> I think if you look at the meeting minutes of uh materials of October 7th, you might find >> I definitely need to read it myself, but I guess I was under the impression that her wishes were that the property were
for the benefit of children. Is that true? >> All she said was >> I mean I can read it. >> So be used as an additional playground. Well, >> I assume additional to the school playground
or to any other playground in town. She doesn't she's >> I have it right here. Go ahead if you want me to read it. Um I think it was in our earlier packet, an earlier meeting. >> Um and this is uh this is the cautisle to the will. Um
uh it's kind of blurry, so bear with me. I devised to the town of Chadam my land on Old Harbor Road in said Chattam together with the buildings thereto with the provision and upon the
condition that the same shall be designated as the Augustus Mary and Ellis playground and that no other buildings shall be placed on the said premises
at my domain shall be placed or maintained thereupon. Here again, it's kind of blurry. Uh it it it being the purpose in making this gift that said land shall be used as an
additional playground and recreation area for the present site of the school located at the abuing property of the town. That's it. Okay. >> All right. Um, I guess it's pretty clear
she shouldn't want buildings. Um, I guess my suggestion was I think it should be an orphanage, but All right. Thanks. >> Thank you. Any other comments from the public? >> I had a question. Oh, I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. Who Who was next?
>> Anybody online? >> Oh, Katie's coming to the podium and then we'll go online. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to confirm that it is not in the historic business district. Um the prop the HBDC ends at the property next door. >> So it would be subject to the historical commission. They would have to make a
determination as to whether it is historically significant and then whether to impose up to an 18month >> demolition delay. >> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Stuart, did you have something more? >> Um I just had a um I'm curious about the
deed. Uh, it seems unusual to me that somebody wouldn't have a deed to a piece of property. >> She had a deed. >> Yeah. >> We don't I I I haven't done a title search, so I can't verify what what Ms. Gibbs said, but it to the extent that
following her death that there the estate didn't draft a deed to the town and record it is not in any way an indication that there the town doesn't have the property. with her death title technically vested with the town and
then when the town accepted the property through a town meeting vote that was that was complete. >> Right. And uh but we're not certain of that because we haven't done a title search. >> Well, I'm not certain that there's not a that whether there's a deed.
>> Right. >> I'm I'm certain that we have title. >> Okay. But you're certain but you're reasonably certain that you don't know if there's a deed. I don't know if there's a deed, but I'm I'm not I'm not particularly concerned if there's not a
deed. Again, it's helpful to sometimes have a deed because if we're transferring it out to a developer, Habitat or HAC or whoever it is, then it's helpful to have that. But this happens all the time. I don't know
whether it happens all the time here because I've looked cursorary, you know, a cursorary review of other town properties and we have deeds for them. I couldn't find one that we didn't have a deed for except for this one. So, um,
but I'm going to get to how we might fix that. Uh, and you can opine then. But even even if we didn't have a deed, we've certainly exercised open and notorious possession of this property for well over 20 years.
>> I'm not concerned. It's wouldn't be in it's not an adverse possession. It would just quiet title if we had to. >> I realize you're not in the real estate department, I think, of your firm, but when you do um a title search, don't you also look at the registry of probate records if if there's an indication that
someone has died? We we would and we'd look for a death certificate and those kinds of things and if there's not a death certificate we might have to then pay to get one. But every every even back in the 70s there were death certificates. So we would have to
essentially pay to get a new death death certificate if we had to record the will do those kinds of things. I'm not particularly >> there's a death certificate so you don't have to >> right do a search for that. >> Yeah. I'm not particularly concerned about the transferability of the >> I'll give you a second comment.
>> Uh yes. Um there is no will that we have and you're supposed to have the last will in testament. When the the town to took it in 1971, November 2nd of 1971, it hadn't
gotten out of probate. It didn't get out of probate until 1974. So it might have been retroactive but that what they accepted it it had not come out of probate yet. There was a lot of work to be done. I I
am concerned and I don't believe a title search was ever done on this and I also went to the the registry of deeds and most of the marin land court for the town of Chadam and from 1968 when she drafted her cautisil till the present
day there is not one the only title for that property is Augustus Sirenus Ellis her husband who died in 1957. The town never switched it from him to her. Our records never showed that in
1957. She should have inherited it. And then when she died, um then the town of Sha Chadam should have been reflected there. The town of Chadam on our assessor's card said we took it over on
January 1 of 71. She didn't even die until March of that year. So the records are really bad. And I I think for a municipality, we should be doing a much better job here. We should have her will, her last will and testament. This is
only the cautisle to that will. And we don't have that last will in testament. The only way you get that is by doing a title search. And so to say we don't really need a deed. Oh, it's just an administrative thing. They're all there for the town of Chadam except this one
property. And so I I'm disturbed that there are so many what-ifs and so many competing interests here and we're ready to take this property that she believed she was giving to the school. I mean back when she wrote this thing in ' 68,
you know, they didn't know the kind of terminology you would want to see today. She gave one piece of land. She wanted it part of the school. She didn't say it was two pieces of land. She asked that there be a sign and a playground because it was next to the school, but it was
one piece of property and to try and find loopholes to get around this when I think we all know really very well what her wishes were and we're the ones that didn't maintain the building. That wasn't her fault. She asked that it be maintained and it and you accepted it on
that basis in 1971 and you accepted it in perpetuity and now you want to change the rules and I and I think it's really um it's something you might see somewhere but you shouldn't see this in a municipality. We we should have all our ducks in order
and to say that nothing exists that all you have is this cautisol to work off of. no deed, no last will in testament, no final probate, nothing I I think is really sloppy and I think we can do
better. Thank you. >> Thank you, Elaine. Any other comments from the public? Any online? >> I see none. Okay, I'm going to bring it back to the board for discussion, deliberation, and hopefully a resolution. Anyone want to
>> Well, I'd like to make a motion to uh expend the $15,000 and continue the design guidelines on 127 Old Harbor Road as was our intent to a couple months ago. Um and then when we get the design guidelines, let's let's see let's see where we are. Um I'm sure there can be
too tasteful or buildings there with with units that I think will provide housing for um our citizens. Um, we've used we've we've effectively used the building for storage and for the harbor master storage and for the water department and we've used the building
as a municipal use for years years. Maybe we can do a title search as well along the way, but but I'm not I'm not concerned at all about our ability to use this property now. I'm not. I have two really good legal opinions and we have a need here in town that I think um
supersedes the supersedes the any other, you know, this is the town's will. Um and we can do it well and we can do it tastefully. We can do it in sync with the neighborhood and and provide housing for folks. I hope we provide housing that's attainable ownership and that we
can provide for our employees in town some housing. Now, more to come there, but that's that's my intent. My intent is not to we I want to proposing for our citizens and and I want to do it tastefully and as many as we can tastefully. That's where I am. I move the 15,000. Let's please move this
forward. Let's look at the design guidelines. Let's get them back here. Let's have another discussion. Thanks. >> The the that your motion um >> 15,000 >> that's for the design guidelines that talked about as I recall five or five or six units. >> Yeah, I I
>> that's what it was. >> I I'm not prepared right now to say five or six units. I think I like the notion of two buildings, but we did have design we had design schemes before that had two or three buildings and and so I I think we have we provide them with uh
the ability, the money, the approval to come back to us with with design guidelines with that property developed and let's see what we come up with. Let's see. Let's see where we are. I mean, I think I think there's room here for some really good use of that that that land. >> Mr. Dykins has made a motion. Is there a second?
>> A second. It's been moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? I have a question for Katie. >> Then I have a followup with you. >> Okay. Katie, um when Gloria was here um to discuss this the last couple of times, she talked
about using 40p on this property because >> that would be the angle to get more than I guess two units because otherwise right now it's one home on that property and it's zoned municipal I believe.
>> Right. So as so it it is currently zoned municipal. Um in order for anybody other than 40B we would have to reszone it to the abuing residential property which would be um zoning district which is our 20 under municipal we can do a 40B um
>> and that would require at least 25% of the units to be um affordable. I'd like this to be 100% attainable, which would mean would the town would have to fully fund it unless a bu a builder came in and wanted to
>> just do it on spec. >> Yeah. Well, >> but and and for that purpose, we wouldn't have five or six units, >> right? >> Right. You wouldn't be able to do um get that density without the without the
40B. You could do you could if without 40B you could split it up into I'm talking about the portion that's not the >> the playground. You could split it up into two lots of about 20,000 square
feet a piece and put a single family home whether you use the existing structures and move them around or not. Um you could put an ADU on one of them. You you could actually put an ADU on both. You could have up to four units,
>> right? >> Okay. I I know Stuart wants to talk. Um >> I guess I would I'll wait for Stuart. Go ahead. You go first. I don't want to jump the gun. >> No, no. I I'm I'm still >> um I mean I
I'm glad we're having the discussion because I think we're getting closer because I can um I personally believe that we need to uh to adhere to the wishes of uh Misellis in her bequath. I
think it's very important. Um, I think that there's going to be I think there already is uh, you know, significant disappointment if we're not going to honor uh, gifts that are given to us. And I, you know, I've heard about the 30
years, but um, I can I wasn't at the town meeting in 1971, but I don't think they said it expired in 30 years. And I think that that revelation on a number of these housing projects is is it's it's disturbing to
me to the point where we need to fix that when we create affordable or attainable housing. It should be for like more than 30 years. Um you know we lost seven homes on lake on Lake Street because or you know the chop housing
because of that. though we don't want to fall into that same we ought to learn from our mistakes. Um you know as far as Mr. uh uh Costello's um legal opinion.
You know, I I took a look at it. Um and I did watch the January 11th, 2022 meeting. Um and uh if you just give me a minute, I can I can re I what I think is important >> because I think we can get where we're
generally talking about, but I think we're missing a step. Um, and I'd be much more comfortable if we uh if we could solidify uh the technical I don't know why they're technicalities solidify um the transfer of this property because
I don't think it was completed. Um this is the last paragraph of a letter from Mr. Costello um for your January 11th, 2022 meeting. Um, and it says, "Upon deeper review of this matter,
another legal issue not previously raised or discussed may also be relevant and could well render the above noted issues on the viability of the use restriction moot because I think he was kind of talking similar to what you were saying uh uh Jay, but maybe not
completely." The Ellis bequath to the town and to town meeting subsequent acceptance thereof may have constituted a binding contractual agreement which created a public charitable trust.
In which case the statutory provisions of blah blah blah relating to their creation, duration, recording and limitations on the enforcability or restrictions in and conditions affecting land would have no application. See
Dumpy verse the Commonwealth. I'm sure Jay you're familiar with that um from 1975. If such is I think this is most important. If such is the case, then notwithstanding any material changes in
circumstance relative to the use and/or physical characteristics of the subject land and neighborhood, a sai prey, it's a new term for me, compliant complaint pursuant to GL 214
section 10B would have to be filed in the superior court by the attorney general's office to obtain a judicial deter determination of the present permissible uses on the property and the town's authority to deviate there from
due to impossibility or impracticality of fulfilling the original terms of the gift. That's his last paragraph. I think it's really important that we follow through with that. I don't know why in three years it hasn't, but unless it has, I haven't I don't believe it has.
If you review the January 11th, 2022 uh tape of that meeting. Uh Pat Costello um and I worked with Pat as harbor master. I thought he was a good attorney. Um he says, and I quote, "I
would not ignore this." I mean, I don't know what else he could say. Um and it it appears that either we forgot or ignored it. Um, and what I'm suggesting is that we follow through with that exact recommendation to
solidify some of these unknowns uh relative to uh the deed and the other uh and doing a title search of course. So um that would be my suggestion and recommendation and then we can you know
get to once we get permission we can get to how many units and two single family homes which which could which it's very attractive to me and as Gloria McFersonson brought up earlier and some others you know now that we're a
seasonal communities uh uh community well then we can attach the uh the people who are going to be renting or owning that piece of property to people at the school system. And truly, you know, we talk about helping
people in this community, but you know, I'm telling you, I'm I'm very suspect about that. I think when you look into the details, certainly that's our intent. Certainly, you know, there's goodhearted people who want to do that, but I'm not sure we're actually accomplishing it. Um, so that would be
my suggestion that we we follow through with this recommendation. I would not ignore this. Uh and um then we can get to, you know, moving forward on I hope uh some some modest housing here. Thank you.
>> Well, we're we're deliberating on the motion. I'm going to ask Jay, do you have any comment on on what Mr. Costello said? I mean, I was president at that meeting and I was throwing the kitchen sink at Costello because and I greatly respect him because I wanted to stop this
and he he was he was unequivocal in his view that the that the restriction had expired in that discussion. What's in what what Stuart just read and I I haven't watched the meeting. I just know it was in my memory that the topic of
the attorney general and C pre and that was something that I'm obviously conscious of but I don't think that was a major part of the conversation that night all I'm telling I'm just I wasn't there that's why I want to get this >> what a and we paid him to give us this
>> no a recommendation this doesn't relate to the 30 years this is separate from the 30 >> I understand that he's saying this trump incomplete Um, do you have any comment on what Stuart just read? >> Well, I I'm not sure because I was just
looking at to see um if I had a record of it. I think he may have given a subsequent opinion um after 2022. I may be wrong on that. >> I I I don't >> think there was a a later opinion. I I
didn't see it as meeting the requirements of a of a public trust at all because I didn't see it a contract anywhere in there or the mere fact that a town meeting because you can't contract with town meeting. So how a
town meeting action could create a contract or con constitute acceptance of a contract either because they don't have the authority to contract. So >> that's not what he that's not what he's saying. >> No, no, but it is what he's saying. Hold on. Hold on. What he is suggesting is
that the town meeting closed the loop on something that would have resulted in the development of of a public trust and because that's how th those things work and I don't think it has those necessary elements to do that. And again, I I
think there may have been a subsequent opinion from him. Not disputing that, not saying that he was disregarding that prior opinion, but I think all of his other opinions focused on the on on the issue of the expiring restriction. I
mean, we're happy to do whatever. I I think it suggests to me this that he was operating out of an abundance of caution as us lawyers often do and that I just don't see it as meeting those essential elements to create a a public trust at all. that would that we would have to
>> deal with the SI prey >> Stewart what's the date of that what's the date of what's on the board and and I don't see the phrase or the sentence I would not ignore this >> it it it it's verbally in the meeting I watched the tape it's not in the letter
>> because this is this is this is in January >> this is December 20th of uh 21 >> okay so that presumably led to the annual town meeting of 2020 22 where
this same issue came up the first time and those of us who opposed myself included Mr. Meadows included voted no to put housing on this property went before town meeting and we prevailed and then it was at 2023
that it came back I think on the initiative of of uh Miss Davis and others and and and the opposite resulted. The opposite um resulted. So
I'm wondering if there wasn't an opinion um subsequent to what you read from Mr. Costello because we would have had a a deliberation on the article that was put forward for the May 2023 town meeting and there was
a split vote. I have it in front of me 3 to2. Mr. Meadows and I were were in in the minority. Uh, and I that may have been the meeting when when Cost Mr. Costello and I when I pressed Mr. Costello for his his
thoughts on this. So there may very well >> I don't think I'm I'm going to get back to Mr. Talon's comment about that maybe Mr. Costello was acting out of an abundance of uh caution. He says I would not ignore this. I don't think that
that's like I don't think that fits what Mr. Talaman's suggesting. What I'm suggesting is if we follow through with this, the issue will have been resolved. Why wouldn't we do a title search? Why wouldn't we get a deed like every other
property we have the town owns in Chadam and follow through with the AG's office and file with the superior court because they may say, "Hey, you know what? Thanks, but you didn't need to do this." But I don't think that that's what they're going to say. Well, I don't think it's going to be res if it were to
go to superior court. I don't think it's something that's going to happen overnight. >> Secondly, >> well, it's been there sitting there. >> Telling you we don't need a deed. We own that property. >> Yeah, we accepted that. >> We own it by adverse possession if there's if there's no deed.
>> Yeah, I I get it. I I get it. I'm not arguing whether we own it because we accepted the I I have the provision in 1971 that's at town meeting that accepted the gift. I get it. But I'm saying that Mr. Costello has said yes, but you
should do this and I wouldn't ignore it. Why would why would we ignore it now? We've had we've had the property since 1971. It's not going anywhere. And uh so let's let's do the right thing here. Then we're do then we are fulfilling the
wishes in a in the proper sense of uh Mrs. uh Ellis's uh cautil >> I guess I will just say this about the wishes of Miss Ellis many of us argued myself included I still believe whether the restrictions
are in place or not whether they've expired or not that we should morally honor her her wishes but that argument was made in 2023 at town meeting and town meeting effectively dismissed that argument by saying put housing on this property okay against my vote I assume
against Cory Met's vote vote and against the vote of a lot of other people, but we lost. >> Well, you you lost that one. You won the one before. And in 1971, the town accepted this as a gift with these provisions. And I and I think we should do this the right way and not get
ourselves all mixed up in some other, you know, legal issue. Why not? There's no argument to to why not do this. >> Okay. Thank you, Stuart. Mr. Dykens, >> except for time, Stuart. And we, you know, we've been banning this about, but Costello would have come back to us. He had a subsequent opinion giving us the
30 an opinion that the restriction has expired after 30 years. If he, if he felt so strongly about that, he would have reminded us that, "Hey guys, you better go back and do this. Otherwise, I I don't have faith in my opinion. He's that good an attorney." So, I I'm not, you know, he he would have said, "Guys,
you're out of your league here. You got to go back and do this." And he didn't he didn't he did not he did not remind us to do it. He didn't say to do it. I mean, I >> He wrote a three-page letter. I understand, but that was before he did a third his 30-year restrict his 30-year expiration. >> No, no, he he opined on this that
>> I understand, but that was before he opined on the 30-year expiration. He did. So, you know, I just I you know, it's funny we're having this conversation, this these lengthy legal um machinations conversations about this
property when we had that property since 1971 and have done nothing with it. But when we want to go do something with it affordable housing or attainable housing, all all heck breaks loose. Where was everybody when when it was the water department? Where was everybody when the harbor master stuff was stored
there? When we used as storage, we weren't using we weren't fulfilling her wishes. It was we weren't using the building. We let it go into disrepair. I look in the mirror. I let we let it to go into disrepair. I've been on the board a long time. But where was everybody complaining about the use of that building then? Oh, it's only when
we want to use it for affordable attainable housing. people come out of the woodwork. >> Well, no, no, no. That I don't think that's what it is. I think what it is I think what it is is the proposal is to either rip down the buildings and and put up affordable >> when those uses took place, whether it
was the water department, was the harbor master, whether it was the parks department, whether it was a litany of departments that used it, the reason there weren't the complaints that you heard was because we didn't change it. We kept it as Miss Ellis. >> Let her go in disrepair. That was change. >> Uh, hey, listen. And I didn't. Hey, it
wasn't me that didn't turn the water off. You want to get You want to get You want to get into that discussion because you'll lose. >> Please. Okay. Stuart, any final comment? Jeff, any final comment at the moment? >> No, you weren't. You know, >> I didn't I didn't use the house.
>> No, I know. Your department used >> No, we didn't. >> Look, we move on, >> please. Ju just mechanics. We do have a motion and a second on the table. I think you're very crystal clear of the
where on the scope of the test fits I'm going to land on. But that's one discussion. If we want to put that to rest, I do think to Stuart's conversation. If we want to have another discussion and a motion and a vote, a yay or nay, on what type of due diligence we want to put in place to
move other, you know, conversations forward in preparation for the next couple meetings, we can do that, too. I don't think they're two separate discussions. if we want to vote on we have a motion in a second we're going to vote on obviously let's dismiss of that and have a conversation about what due diligence we want to put forth
>> on this on this conversation. >> Well, I'm tired of seeing this item on the agenda and I'd like it resolved tonight. So, if there is a companion or conccommant item that you want to have addressed in terms of due diligence, you could amend
the motion. >> Does that have to be motion or can it be two separate motions? >> Could have separate motion. I I think they're two separate I mean we can move forward with the test fits I I I the scope of the which you know whatever you know we'll move forward hopefully some
more my my view and then others that I think are in my colleague view we'll have that discussion >> but I would remind you that the test fits talk about five units or six units we could amend that motion and reduce the number of units it would require some additional work by the consultant
the design consultant I'd be prepared to support I'd like to see us compromise here tonight. >> I I think we can get I I'll amend the motion. >> Can I just make a comment on that? I think there was some variables and enough variables in the designs that we wouldn't have to do that >> that you know I think they were already
in place. >> Caroline, we've already heard from the public. >> Can you tell them? Maybe Katie can remind us. >> Were the number of units based at five or did they go below that? >> I thought it was the number of buildings
and I think >> well there were two or three structures >> right >> but but >> and it was scenario one if I recall um I went back and looked today. It was scenario one and I believe if you it was so it would
be if we use the existing existing dwelling it appears that it would be four additional units in within three buildings based on scenario one. So Katie, I guess, you know, what I'm trying to
spell out in my position is I'm looking at maybe not units. I'm looking at the existing mass on that structure, the house, the barn or whatever, allowing for a little bit of growth for, you know, modernizing, you know, the needs of facility. I guess that is so that is
kind of an undetermined number. That could be one unit, it could be two units, it could be three. >> It certainly could. I mean, depending, right? I guess I'm not saying a hard number. I'm looking at the mass is is what I'm looking at. >> Why don't we li Why don't we amend the motion to limit the number of structures
to two? >> I'd like to make the motion. >> That's an amendment to Mr. Dykin's motion. Amendment to the motion. >> A second to that amendment. >> I'll second that. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Just want to say when we do the RFP, we'd be able to amend that design. So if
we go forth with the design concepts and iron it out during the design phase, the RFP, we can look at an RFP and look at it and say, well, you know what, >> we we see that there's three units here. We'd want to reduce it to two. But I think, you know, we thrown out the ADU
idea. I would like to argue maybe the ADU isn't the way to go, but maybe it's condos, two condos together, you know, so I think that that's what we should be looking at at this point. Well, my only con comment on that is that this is supposed to be an instruction to our
staff and to the consultant to prepare some guidelines that are going to go into the RFP. So, >> but it's coming back. It would be coming back to us anyway for discussion, wouldn't it, Dean? >> And that's >> I should hope so. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that then it would go for an
RFP. So, if we didn't >> particularly care for how what D we fine-tuning the direction is what I'm saying. >> Okay. I mean, I I don't want to split hair hairs here, but I don't want to um restrict this so much that we wouldn't be able to get an opportunity if we had
some time outside of what's going on tonight to really talk about it. >> So, you're you're not in favor of the amendment. >> I'm in favor of moving forward with the way that we were going earlier. >> So, this So, I'm sort of procedurally. I
think we have an amendment on the on the table here that's been offered and seconded. So, we probably should dispense with that first. >> Yeah. >> Unless it unless it's going to be withdrawn. >> Question is, >> does I guess I'll ask the question of Stuart and Corey.
Does does do Karine's do Shireen's comments persuade you to conclude you don't need to offer this amendment that we're these are going to come back to us and we can refine it downward if we feel it? I don't want to
be very dismissive of spending $15,000. So, I know moving forward I have a comfort zone of mass on that site. And again, is it one unit, two unit, three unit? I don't know that. I I got to admit I don't know that. I know I want to keep within the streetscape, the
volume, the the mass of the property. Um, >> and those were the conversations we had before. We're >> and if we and if we are crystal crystal clear this and we're going to have that design conversation and there could be a chance that you know we could have pro um designs put before us that I'm going
to shoot down or say nope no thank no thank you and absolutely not um before we move anything forward we're going to have that vote collectively between the five of us. I'm I'm willing to compromise and do that. I mean I I'm not looking for a higher mass density project on that site. I've been crystal clear about
that. But I mean, >> I I don't know why we would go for five or six units when it sounds like there's a good number of members that wouldn't support >> like a condo where let's not excuse me, but let's not limit ourselves at this point. If you want to limit it later,
let's do that. But keep keep our options open at this point. We've given them direction. They want to finish the design guidelines. Bring it back and let's see what we like. Why would we say only two? Because we're trying to provide housing. I agree. We don't not
want to overwhelm that lot or those lots with massive structures. I agree. You got some consensus here. So, let's see what they come back with. But I wouldn't now say only two. I would not do that, guys. You're limiting our It's too limiting. >> Two structures or two units. >> If no, two structures.
>> Well, let me ask you this. >> I mean, you can have two two structures and four units. You could have four one-bedroom apartments or condos. >> All right. >> Have condos. >> Katie has something she wants to say, then I'll come back to you, Stuart. >> Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, I'm just looking at the um proposed scope of
work from UTIL and it does talk about proposing the design guidelines. It comes back to the select board. There's further refining of that. Then there's the creation of the RFP. So, this is just the first of an initial step to get us to a further discussion once we have
the design guidelines. But this is just to approve the scope of work that was presented back I think in April and um and then to move forward if this will be coming back for further refinement. >> Okay. >> No, I I know I just wasn't here in April for that discussion.
>> Stuart, did you have additional comment? Um, well, I'm trying to I'm trying to get to a a resolution here, and my concern would be if you go ahead with that RFP and a
business comes back or a proposer comes back with five or six units, uh, you know, I don't want to get to five or six units. >> There's a step in between. This is not to approve the RFP. This is this is to approve the design consultant
to dis to uh develop some guidelines that would go into the RFP. But those guidelines would come back to us before the RFP is drafted. >> That's correct. >> And then when the RFP is drafted, that should come back to us too. >> That's correct.
>> Okay. And so what I I I I think I agree with what you know what Shine was saying if we think there were too many units or too many structures and I don't like more than two structures myself up front. >> Um >> and I say that because this is in a
neighborhood of R20 >> and this is a 40,000 square foot lot. If it were in private ownership they would divide it up and put two single family homes on there. Um, so on on the table before us is is an amendment and I want
to suggest because I suggested the amendment, but I wanted to suggest maybe in light of the discussion we've had, it might be withdrawn and we would just take a vote on the main motion, but it's up to you too. >> Um, and Corey because you moved and seconded that. >> It is
I'm fine with that because I do want to I'm tired of seeing it too and I haven't been here as long as you folks. Um, but I do want to reiterate that um, you know, it's going to be a hard cell to support anything more than two structures. Actually, there's three, but
nonetheless, two structures. And, um, I'm going to be very concerned about uh, density on this property. and and and and I'm also, you know, I think we all are, but because I see it in some of the references to our goals and objectives
of uh preservation, our historic uh so preserving that building, I don't believe is uh I don't think that's unattainable. I think that's plausible. >> And that's that's an option we talked about putting into the RFP. So, are you when you said you're fine with this, are you fine with withdrawing your your amendment? >> I'll I'll I'll withdraw the amendment.
>> I'll withdraw my second. >> Okay. So, we So, we Okay. So, we're back to the main motion which is offered by Mr. Dykins to approve the design guidelines. >> The expenditure of $15,000 to proceed with the design guidelines
>> guidelines. Okay. No further discussion. I'm going to call the vote. Miss Davis >> I. >> Mr. Dyken. >> I. >> Mr. Matters. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I. >> And the chair votes I. >> I have one followup. >> Yes.
um on this this uh title search and uh um going through the attorney general's office and uh determining whether we need to go to superior court. Basically following Mr. Costello's uh uh suggestions just to resolve this issue
one way or the other. It I think it's pro really at the end of the day you're probably going to want a deed anyway since you have deeds to every other piece of property we have. >> Okay. Um, >> I can make a motion if you like. >> Before you do, I assume you would. Could
I just ask Jay, do you have any comment on that? Because we're about to have a motion to communicate with the attorney general on this. Well, through >> well, I I might I suggest that before we communicate with the attorney general that if you want to take a look at that
and I just looked at the Dumpy uh case, which I don't think is applicable at all, but I think rather than go up that go to that level that we do the research on the Duny case and whether or not and return a memo to you,
I don't think it interrupts anything else you're doing, but I don't think it hits the four corners. ers of the Duny case at all. That talked about a public trust created when someone left something for very specific
um public purpose for the public good. And that's not what we're talking about here with respect to the maintenance of the buildings here. But I think rather than going to the attorney general first that we if you want us to, we're happy to do the research in and around the the
public trust issue if that's what the board wants. I I don't think it's going to turn up much, but we're we're happy to do that there. As to the deed, again, it's not I checked with my real estate conveyancing department today. It's not a necessity. So, and that's a future thing that we
could worry about at the time. If we are going to convey the property, we could always quiet title if we needed to do that, but I'm happy to do the research on the public trust if you want. I'll have my real estate department do that. May Stuart, may may I suggest that you
might want to offer a motion, and this would be in keeping with what Mr. Med said earlier to ask town council to um research and advise us as to the status of
um the title and the issue of the public the charitable public trust that has been raised and then we can take a look at it and if we we think we need to go further and approach the
attorney general at that point than we could. >> Well, >> I mean, that's just a suggestion I offer to you, but you can offer whatever motion you want. I know having been in the attorney general's office myself, it'll be there forever.
>> Well, I don't want to keep repeating myself, but um it was suggested. It wasn't done. He says, "I wouldn't ignore this. You have a deed for every other piece of property you have. What is the resistance? Is the resistance that we
may not find what we like? I I don't know what the >> If I may, I I think you're conflating two issues though. The deed isn't does has nothing to do with the issue that Pat said not to ignore. >> No, I raised two issues, right?
>> Pat's issue and the deed. We we don't I've already confirmed we don't need a >> I understand that >> the other issue if you want us to research that I I think that that's I think that's fine. I I don't think it's going to turn up much but I have no problem with the due diligence obviously
it's fine to check that one off. I don't think the deed is is anything to be concerned about frankly. So we we could go about trying to create a deed but it's going to be a len lengthy land court proceeding. There's no one to convey us a deed. There's no
one left on the trust. We're going to have to recreate heirs to to do that. So, if we had to petition the land court for um a decree saying that we own it, that's that's fine. But that's a a
year-long process that I don't think is necessary. I can we can again we can do the research on the issue that Pat said and I'm and I was looking I think ultimately he gave an opinion because you went to town meeting and got the
vote that where he was less concerned about that issue but I'm not locating that right now because I think there was communications from Pat after that date. That said, Stuart, we're happy to to look at that issue just for peace of mind purposes. I just but the the deed
issue I'm not is is not an issue. >> So can you and maybe you can't comment on why every other piece of property has a deed and this one doesn't. >> Well, I don't I don't think I'm prepared. I think what us attorneys would say is that's assuming a fact, not
an evidence. Cuz I inherited my mother's house and I didn't have a deed when I conveyed it out either. So >> Well, I didn't. We did have a deed. or do have a deed. >> You can have a deed through an administrator through processes. In the
70s, again, different time, different place. There's different requirements now with licenses to sell and this and that. It's a different world. But I'm not I think that's a future issue that we can resolve if we have to quiet title. I'm not particularly concerned
about it. That's just a box checking exercise. It's mechanical. If you want an if you want something some research done on the other issue and you should request the board should request whatever you want from us what I'm suggesting is that if you want us to go
belt and suspenders the belt and suspenders I would suggest you have us do is in and around that Duny case which I just re-reviewed after having reviewed and I just don't think it's going to be applicable but I think that's the bit of research that might provide some peace
of mind. Okay, I want to bring this to closure. So, Stuart or Corey, because you brought it up too in terms of proceeding with due diligence, adding something tonight. I couldn't care less if this issue ever came back to the town. It's regrettable
that that the town even accepted this property in 1971 with the stupid provision that we would take these buildings without any direction as to what to do with them. That would never happen today. But anyway, having said that, um there is this
un unresolved question that you >> I'll make a motion I'll make a motion that uh I suppose we could use any council. I'll make a motion that we engage with Mr. Talman to um research the uh as his suggestion his dumb feet versus the
Commonwealth and that he research uh if there was any other followup on um that dismissed this paragraph somehow that Mr. Costello had written. >> Well, that latter part could be handled
by our own administrative staff. We wouldn't >> Well, I think he would I think Mr. Mr. Taliban would have to come part of his research would be determining whether Mr. Costello's suggestion here uh uh has merit or not and I'm not sure that I
don't know I'm not sure that that is specific just to the >> I thought you wanted to know whether Mr. Costello had given a subsequent opinion that's >> well Mr. Talan brought that up and that that's fine with me. But I'd like to know whether this still is has valid
these concerns and whether we should follow through with this suggestion that's probably related to the Dumpy Commonwealth case. That's fine. >> Okay, that that's a motion. Uh is there a second? >> I'll second that. Okay. So, the motion
is to task town council with advising us about the Duny case on the issue of charitable trust, public charitable trust, and to advise as to um his opinion on Mr. Costello's >> comments >> comments concerning
um procedure with the process with the attorney general andor the superior court. >> Yes, that is a fair summary of the motion. >> Yep. Thank you. >> Okay. Jay, before we take a vote on this, it's been moved and second. Do you have any comment on that? >> No, we're happy to do the the research.
>> Okay. All right. I'll call for a vote. Miss Davis, >> no. >> Mr. Dykins, >> no. >> Mr. Matters. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith, >> I. >> Chair votes no. >> It's defeated. Okay.
Um, >> I I have a suggestion. I'm sorry, Mr. >> M. Mr. Dykens. I I would like to suggest to take item F out of order. We have two folks here from the Gulf Advisory Committee and this will be fairly uh circumspect and very quick. I believe they've been sitting here all night. So
I just would like to get that taken care of if you might. >> Okay. Um we'll do that. So ENF no F >> just the golf advisor. >> Okay. So we'll do that. This is item 7F. Consider recommendation of the golf advisory committee to to increase to for
an increase to golf rates. Amy Howell, is she going to make this presentation? >> So Amy's not present, but we have uh Bruce >> Bardis as well as Jason. >> Is Jason our golf management? >> Okay, welcome >> Johnson Golf. >> Who wants to go first?
>> Bruce, do you want to present this? >> Um, no. actually uh the golf advisory committee uh fully supports the increase in uh the golf rates for the seaside
cadam links. Uh it's been a couple of years and uh we are still very proud that uh seaside links is the lowest rated uh lowest cost 9-hole
course on the Cape. Um and Johnson Golf is doing an excellent job and we believe that it would be appropriate to support an increase in the rates not just for the daily rates but also for membership rates.
>> Okay. Jay, do you want to offer any comment on this? >> Yes. So this is uh we are on our third contract with the town of Chadam. I'm happy to to be here tonight and thank you. Um, so we are looking basically for our third increase um, since we took
over the property. Uh, since the it's been a little over 10 years since Johnson Golf has uh, managed that property. Um, it's been a lot of uh, great work done with the golf uh, committee as well as the town in getting uh, I think when we first took over there was four artificial tea boxes. We
now currently have um, all grass on on all tea boxes. U, there's been renovations done recently to uh, the pump house. Uh there's been additional TE's added or enlarged. Um we just recently added material bins out near the maintenance building to uh help
contamination with um uh you know with uh uh car path material uh sand traps u as well as divot mix for for the course to make it a little bit neater, a little more presentable as people are going by the maintenance building. Uh we are also about to enlarge the third T um as well.
Um, and we've, you know, some of the projects we've done over the years have been, uh, approved by the town, um, and paid for by the town. Other projects have, uh, have been out of pocket with Johnson Golf. Um, and we're, you know, it's been a great relationship. We're, we're happy to continue, uh, making improvements, uh, providing a cost, uh,
an affordable um, recreational activity for the um, season pass uh, you know, holders as well as the residents as well as non-residents and tourists and uh, you know, visitors when they when they come to Chattam. So, we're uh we're proud of what we're doing over there. It's a great atmosphere, a great
family-friendly atmosphere. Um the rate increases that we presented to uh presenting to the town are um I I would consider somewhat minimal. I mean, we've got we're going from $22 for nine holes to 25 and from 18 holes, we'll go from
34 to 37. So, it's only a $3 increase. Uh and then also with the membership rates, um there's provisions in the contract that um every 10% you go up, uh it increases the uh payment to the town each year. So we didn't do 11%, we didn't do 12%, we didn't do 13%. We went
straight with the 10% which maximizes the amount of money the town gets on this current proposed increase as well as uh capping out u what it what the effects will be to um the daily fee players as well as the uh season passholders. Thank you very much for that very
detailed summary and um I I know the board and I think the town at large very much appreciates the work that Johnson is doing with our golf course. It really is in fine shape and it gets better every day. Um so um the increases are
recited in the and in the memo to staff and I think everybody on the board is aware of them. So I I guess I'll ask Mr. Dykins if he wants to make a motion. >> I would like to move approval of the new rates being suggested by the golf advisory committee. Brief comment. Johnson golf's doing a great job. The t
the the golf course is gorgeous. Um wise expenditures of funds. You do it uh with an eye towards expenses as well. And the reason why these rates are not increasing very much at all is that you guys really understand the use of a buck and you do it really very well. The course is gorgeous. You've done a great job. And the golf advisory committee
under Bruce's leadership has done a great job as well. very very very strong committee. So I move approval. Is there a second? >> A second. >> Okay. Moved and second. >> Comment. >> Yes, Corey. >> You got to recognize you guys have done a really great job with the golf course. Um it's it's it's a nine-hole gem for
the community. I think the fees are fair, but what one thing is, you know, with having kids and having the junior membership category out there allows the younger kids to get out there. I mean, a junior membership resident fee is $110. So a 15, 16, 17 year old kid can easily
make, you know, work a little bit, make some money, and for $110 can play golf on that course and and learn the game, enjoy the activities, you know, socialize, the whole nine yards. It's it's a great um offering that this course has, and it's it's accessible. I
do miss the lines, you know, the waiting list, the tea time things. It's it took me a while to get used to that, but all in all, I think it's a it's a well it's a well-run course. >> Thank you. >> All right. Call the role. Miss Davis. >> I. >> Mr. Dykins. >> Hi. >> Mr. Matters. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I.
>> Chair votes. I. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> G. G. >> Mr. Chair. Can we move G up to this folks? >> Item G. This is the consider the recommendation of the parks and recreation commission to grandfather certain businesses under the facility
use policy. And who's going to present this? Um, >> Mr. Sure. We have Leah Lacrosse, our director of community services. >> Okay. >> Good evening everyone. Leah Lacrosse, director of community services.
Um Amy couldn't be here tonight, so I will read the the recommendation um that the parks and recoms and recreation commission recently voted to recommend retaining the previous fee structure paid to the town um by long-standing
instructors who conduct business on town property and charge participants directly. Town staff had recommended the updated fee schedule to ensure consistency and fairness to all current and future users of town facility property facilities and properties.
Accordingly, staff respectfully recommends that all users transition to the updated fee structure on January 1st, 2026 as previously approved by the select board. >> So, the staff recommendation differs from the parks and recreation commission
as far as grandfathering. So, I had asked um indirectly to town council whether he had any concerns about these differential rates and um he says um and
an opinion or comment dated November 6th um that he has a concern um that in order to differentiate have differential fees
uh you have to have some basis. For example, the time or expense of managing pre-existing contractors versus
new contractors. So, and then there is um in the staff memo from Amy Howell a statement that there really isn't any difference in the management. So, with that in mind, I I
guess I personally have a legal issue in having differential rates. Um, I'll ask if there's any comment questions from the board and then we'll ask the public for comment. Anything from the board? >> I'd like to hear from the public before I
>> Okay. Anybody want to speak from the public on this? You need to come forward and identify yourself. >> Hi. Thank you so much for hearing me. Um, Jennifer Fedig, I'm Cadam Lighthouse Beach Yoga. Um, when you say an Acer on
time spent managing, is that what I understand? >> Well, I think that was the suggestion that town council may have offered to us. Um, I didn't read this literally, but >> okay. If you're going to charge someone, if you're going to grandfather someone in at a lower rate, you need to have
some basis for doing that other than the fact that they've been there. >> Uhhuh. If the fact that they've been there makes it easier for you to quote manage that contractual relationship um in a way that is less ownorous than
managing a new person starting a new program >> then then you can justify having a differential rate. But our our parks and wreck person is saying director is saying um there there really is no difference in terms of her management.
Okay. >> Okay. >> And um did they suggest what amount of time they needed to spend managing? >> I didn't see any detail on that. >> Now, do you are do you pay a flat fee or do you pay a >> I pay a percentage.
>> A percentage of each person, >> the minimal amount. >> Okay. >> So, Mr. Chair, this is not a town sponsored program. This is a a business providing a program on on town property. >> Yeah.
So, with my um 10-year experience of working with the park and recreation department, I would say that the amount of time that they spend managing me is zero. >> Yeah. >> I sit in front of them as a um
um a courtesy twice a year at the beginning of the season and at the end of the season. But they don't have to do anything. They don't do anything um to the property. There's no maintenance that needs to happen. They don't have to
check in to make sure that the lights are working. I mean, it requires zero hours of management on >> I I do remember when you were here, you were here before when the rates were the rate increase was approved and the board
um when hearing from you and others decided to >> not implement it this summer, but put it into effect in 2026. Yeah. >> Um, and I don't recall how much the rates went up in in in in your instance, but
>> they went up by 100%. They doubled. Um, are you able to recoup all or a portion of that by increasing your >> only by increasing my expense and
advertising or um I mean it's a it's a 20 year um tradition. >> No, but I assume you you charge per participant, right? >> I do. I I could raise the rate more expensive for everybody, but I just
don't see that as a solution. >> We were talking about >> trying to make affordable housing and >> I for me to charge more than $20 for yoga class is starting to get ludicrous. That's how I feel personally. You know, everybody should be and I I offer free
classes for kids. And >> how many how many paying participants do you have in your class? Um, I would say an average 30. >> Does it change from day to day or I don't know? >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Depends on the
weather, the day of the week, or what else is going. It's It's really almost impossible for me to create any sort of rhyme or reason to how the number patterns. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, thank you for your
comments. >> Okay. Thank you for your consideration. Next, >> Sue Hunter. I'm in the aerobics room. I have a light fitness class. I have the flat fee. I I only charge $12. Um been
there for four years. Um I don't know what to tell you. I mean it >> but so are you objecting to the fact that the rate went up or because if if the flat does the flat fee apply across the board to you and
>> I mean their their proposal is that >> I stayed where I am. I came in at $25 for every time I'm in the room. But then about a year in it was brought to my attention that I was paying too much and there's a $150 cap. So I just pay a flat
fee of 150 for the month. Um and again my class fluctuates daily. I and there's no management to it. I mean it's I do my own thing. I collect the money myself. Um there's no sign up. There's no
commitment. You want to come to my class? Fine. You don't? Fine. And and it's grown. Yes. >> How much is how much has the rate increased the fee? You say from $25 to 150. >> No, I I've been 150 for the month. What
they want to do is put me on a percentage. That doesn't make sense to me whatsoever to take a percentage of my revenue. >> Okay. >> And I'm not going to raise my prices. I haven't in four years. So I
>> But you'd be okay with a flat fee. >> The flat fee? Yes. Of 150 to grandfather me in. Yes. >> Okay. I already hear you. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Um Brian Phillips. >> All right. Brian Phillips, 374 Orleans
Road. Um the people that run these exercise classes do a great service this community. I mean, $20 for a yoga class is a good deal, and you kind of want to make these classes available to everybody. $12 for an exercise class. Great deal. So, they're providing a big,
you know, service for this community. And I think it's offensive that the park and Rex Commission would raise the rates like that. I mean, so what the the extra money is going to the town um and making the classes more expensive. I think this really needs to be reconsidered this
raise, you know, this rate change because you're going to be affecting local businesses and the people of this community to I don't know where the money's going because I, you know, don't understand a lot of the ways we spend money in this town, but I think this seriously needs to be reconsidered
because it's, you know, it's the local people and local businesses that are affected and I don't think we're hurting that much for money to where we need to raise rates in this town. I mean, what are we worth 12 billion now or something? Thanks. Thank you. Cindy, did you wanna
you want to say something? >> Hi, my name is Gretchen Sloan, 57 Silver Springs Road, and I actually have had the privilege of taking this exercise class for a number of years since I moved here full-time. Um, I just wanted
to make a comment. A lot of the members in our class, most of us are seniors. Um, but the class is affordable. It, you know, a lot of people cannot afford some of the other venues out there like Cadam
Works that are very expensive. Um, there is no commitment. So people voluntarily attend or not at will where you don't have to attend so many sessions or you're paying for sessions that you don't um actually go to. Um so I think
this has been a great service to um women locally in the community and men are welcome too but um it's really helped me to become more acclimated with
the town, develop friendships, uh learn what the community center has to offer. Um, and uh, like Sue Susan said, you know, the number of people that attend fluctuate class to class. I I would hate
to see her put in a position where she has to charge us more, where some people cannot afford it, you know, and I I just want to really thank the parks and recreation for supporting these kinds of class. It is a
beautiful service that is offered. um that we get to partake to in the community. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other comments from the public? Shireen. >> Um I I have a
I think this 20% of revenue uh just I don't know where the justification of of that sort of fee structure comes in. I'm I'm kind of concerned that it wasn't a everything else is a flat rate um uh to be able to take and use the rooms and
maybe these are activities that are more regular which you know I I just feel like um I don't I can see where we can't go we can't grandfather there would be a total conflict of >> to be able to do that but I'd like to find out you know this seems like it's
kind of like uh a bit maybe not ownorous because they're making money, we're making money, but still uh having a 100% rate rate raise is a I think it's a little too much. And we talk about and let me just I mean we've done this we've
talked about this with the uh the um the trash collectors in town and stuff. We we talk about a sustainable community and we talk about how sometimes we have to offset some of the costs to the town in order to create these kind of vibrant
ideas of community and this might be one of those cases. Uh I I I recommend it back to the to the um to staff to come up with a a scenario that might be a little more equitable with that idea in mind. >> Yeah, I I agree with you. I I it seems
to me it makes more sense to flat fee all these things and and and than and provide a uniform flat flat impose a uniform flat fee on those who are currently here in place and and future
applicants who want to participate and run programs on town property whether it's the community center or on the beach and not take a piece of each um uh client
um payment to the contractor. Um we I don't think we can grandfather because uh under the existing structure because I think there's a legal issue with that. So I I would be in favor and I know the parks and recreation commission was trying to help the folks that we heard
from tonight. I don't know whether they we heard one said she could live with a flat fee. I don't know whether a flat fee as opposed to the beach. I'd be interested in hearing what you might have to say to that before we proceed with any kind of vote here, but I'm
inclined to refer this back to the park and recreation commission and and the department. >> Yes. Um, I think that comparing usage on the beach to comparing usage in a structure
is not an equal playing field. Um, I don't require any resources. Even I know there's been a lot of talk with the sharks in the park at Kate Gold and then the how it ruins the turf. I mean, it just it has zero impact
um on the town and on the property. The issue that I would have with a flat rate fee is because I'm outdoors, I'm totally dependent on weather. And we know the weather in Chadam is really
unpredictable and it's um was very often this summer that the mornings were really cold and really wet and the afternoons were gorgeous. So, my class is held in the morning because of parking restrictions and other considerations. So, I'm completely at
the mercy of weather. So, if I have a flat rate fee and a lot of cold, rainy mornings and not a lot of students showing up, then it's going to be a lost leader for me. Um,
so I just I I've had this relationship with the park and recreation department for 10 years and it's not broken. So I don't know why there's um feels like there's a need to fix it. And I don't think that there's any other business, and you can
correct me if I'm wrong, that mirrors. >> No, I I appreciate that it's different, but you are conducting a business on town property. >> Yep, I am. >> Okay. Mhm. >> So that's that is a that is uh something that I think the town feels it should charge for.
>> Oh, absolutely. They're charging. I'm paying for that. >> No doubt. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay, Mr. Chair. >> Leah. Leah, and then and then we'll hear >> we'll hear from Leah first, then Corey. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I I just want to note that, you know, we of course we we
understand everything that these businesses are saying tonight, but that was exactly why we ca we came up with a percentage because then if it rains 10 days in a row and you don't have any participants, it would it wouldn't
affect as where a flat rate would. I just I want it to be known that there was um a committee that looked at these these usage of town property that we looked at every other municipality on the Cape and what they're charging. And
while it seems like going from 10% to 20% is a lot and I understand that it is, but I think that's more a reflection of the fact that the rates hadn't changed in years. Um and we're trying to get them more in line with what every other municipality is offering. So, we
we did look at every other town. Um, and that was how we came up with these rates. Um, I don't know Kathy if you wanted to add to that at all, but um, Kathy was part of the committee that that we looked at this. So, I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.
>> We did take into consideration the license that was granted to Wicked Wavy as well, which was based on a 20% uh, revenue from like that was what was part of their license. The other part of this was the need for a license where we had require where the board had required
Wicked Wavy to obtain a license to operate a private business on public property with a percentage of their profit as payment for the license. But we weren't requiring other private businesses operating on town property to
have such a license. That was part of the discussion as well is how do you have one that's required to have a license with a percentage and the other's not. So that was it was kind of this holistic look as Leah said to update what had not been updated in many
years and make it equitable and fair what we felt was fair. Um, apparently, you know, it can be discussed and and determined otherwise, but that was part of the discussion is to make sure that every private business operating on town property had a license and had a fee
structure, which is why the rooms had the flat rate. But if it was, you know, for renting the room because we were looking at functions, we had requests for weddings. We had requests for birthday part like all of the events that could happen on town property. Um, and that was part of our discussion. So
>> Corey, >> I was just going to throw a couple two cents worth of information. Like I mean obviously the outside venues and you've mentioned the the fluctuation of of attendance. I think that's where some of the conversations came back between flat rate and percentages as mentioned you
could have very poor weather you could have a week of rain and basically generate zero you know income. So though these were discussions park and wreck has had on and off over the years. You know, Jennifer has been before the park and wreck, you know, annually and very work has a great working relationship
with the board with the committee. Um providing information, data, you know, we've evolved in our conversations. Um I we definitely need to keep an equitable, you know, package together for all applicants. That's, you know, this is a that's a legal hurdle that we we we or
blockage we have to deal with. It's, you know, that's fine. Um, but I had another point. I lost my train of thought and I'll think of it. >> Shireen, before I go to you, I'm gonna allow the
two um ladies there one last opportunity to speak and then we'll take it back to the board. >> Um, I'm in the aerobics room. As I said before, it's just a room. And yes, I agree. I need to pay the town something
for it. When I say a flat fee, you know, like Jennifer said, you know, she's get rainy days or whatever. It's every time I'm in that room, it was $25 for that. So, at the end of the month, count up how many times I was in the
room. And that's what I would pay before they put the cap on it. So, I don't want to pay for a month if the community center's closed on a Monday. I'm there three days a week, 12 hours for the month, but not always. I might
take a vacation or it's closed or snow day or whatever, but I'd be happy to pay for every time I'm in the room. A reasonable rate, the $25 would be great. Um,
the whole percent thing. And >> okay, >> you talk like I'm a big business, but We we understand that. >> Okay. >> Um yes, one final comment. >> Jennifer Fedig again. Um I've been
paying a percentage the entire time that I've been in contract with the town for Beach Hoga. And when I started there 10 years ago, I um picked up where the previous business
operator um left off and they she had a relationship with the town that was a flat rate and I think they had a fairly contentious relationship. And so when I
first sat with the board, it was made very clear to me that it wasn't a matter of whether or not the rent was going to go up or the rate was going to go up. It was by how much. And so we worked really diligently um talking and talking and came up with
what seemed to be a fair and equitable rate. And I do report back with data and information. Um, I just would say that this 100% increase,
the amount of money that that equals and the impact that it would have on the budget of the town of Chadam is absolutely negligent, but the amount of impact that it would have on the Fedic household is really impactful. You know, it's we talk about how affordable or
unaffordable Cape Tucket is becoming, you know, I'm a native. My husband is a native and we're really trying to just stay home. I'm on that beach every single morning without fail. 7 days a week, 86 days, whether
it's raining or not, I show up. I'm committed to that business. and to have to pay the town double for my commitment to my business just doesn't really sit right with me. So, I would ask you to consider that.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Shireen. >> So, it sounds to me like we have two different issues here with these two different styles of businesses and and um and then we have the equitable piece to this. One thing that I just um wanted
to note is, you know, we've got um charter boat businesses using our town landings. And what kind of fees do they pay to use town landings? Seriously, what what is the fee for a charter boat to um apply and get permission to use a
town uh town landing? >> We're not asking for a percentage of their catch or or percentage of their rates >> or every time they tie up >> or every time they tie up. I'm just wondering if how >> we charge them a they come before us and they get a permit. Steuart, do you know
the answer for town? >> It's a it's a flat rate. Um >> when they get the different they get the permit, they pay that's it. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's it's different for the fish pier than the town landings, but they're reasonably familiar. >> I'm thinking the beach yoga might have a
different parameter than the usage of the of the commercial buildings. >> Yeah. >> Um that we need to look at. um maybe a little different. I I'm not prepared to vote on anything tonight. I I'm still totally confused by the fees. >> You know, we we're approaching the end
of the year. They want these the parks department wanted these in effect January 1. Um, obviously that's not going to affect the beach yoga immediately, but um >> it may if she's making plans for, you
know, advertising and whatnot for the That's true. >> for the coming season. >> Um, maybe we refer this that we we refer this back to the parks and recreation commission and the department for reconsideration as to the rate structure. >> Well, if I might, they turned it to us
to have for us to make the decision. And I think the the conflict is I think folks are uncomfortable with the doubling of the percentage for the of revenue. I think that's that's tough for some very small businesses. And the point that's made that we do want to support these small businesses that have been long-standing here. So, I mean, I
would remand it back to the park and recck, but asking them to please review the percentage increase for certain businesses and and for all businesses because I think that's the ownerous piece of this or the most ownorous piece of this, especially for those folks that really don't impact um our facilities in
the town. You going beach yoga doesn't, you know, yes, you're taking up parking spot and you're using a little beach, but um you're not really impacting, you know, the town very much. >> So, anyway, I I would ask the parking rec to take a look at the percentage increases. I think that's where a lot of the a lot of the cold sore is. The canker is here. I think um and I would
ask him to do that. I I I I don't have the right answer. I think if we say look, we have we we have new regs, we have new new rates that we all agreed upon and so shall it be. Well, that's not that's not reality. It affects different business. >> All I'm saying is I think you have to charge the same rates for new people as you do for existing people. Yeah. No,
unless you have that's all I'm saying. >> I agree. I think we need to revisit the rate. Well, is it more appropriate to send it back to park and wreck or or no back to us because we approved the rate increases and then we paused for some of the you know the the longer standing
>> uh vendors entities that are served. So >> do we just >> well bring back the entire package to this board and be like okay how do we how do we figure out how to do this equitable across the board so that all categories balance? I would I would be more inclined to refer it back to them
because this is their area of expertise. They this is their >> they meet once a month. >> They don't meet they meet once a month. >> Um but we don't we don't know more than they do about how these programs are administered and where they are. I mean
do we really want to get into that? Do we really have the opportunity? I know we meet weekly, but isn't it something that they should opine on and get back to us with the understanding that we want them to take a harder look at this? I don't know how anyone else feels. That's my instinctive reaction to your
suggestion. Stuart, >> do we have the um the survey that was done by the staff for other communities? >> Was it just similar or does >> I have it in hard copy? I don't have it electronically, but we did look at the
Cape as a whole and what was done in terms of licenses and rates. though >> because we chatted about this um not this specific issue but in June when uh uh the town came forward proposing rate increases for the transfer station and
um we didn't approve them but but um at that time we talked about what was kind of getting to what Shireen was saying you know what is the fee policy for these different departments because I'm not clear on when we raise fees when we
lower fees what are we trying to cover are we trying to cover operational expenses or it's just not clear to me and um I think a a broader policy on that would be helpful. >> Well, may may I suggest try to compromise here just to move this along.
Maybe we put this on an agenda of the board to have that chart in front of us, have some additional discussion that's more informed and then we can decide whether we want to chop these rates or send it back to the commission and and but we should do that expeditiously
because January 1st is coming. That would be my suggestion. Is there a consensus on that? >> Yes. >> Okay. I think that's what we're going to do. We're not going to do anything tonight >> in either direction, but we'll put this on a future agenda. Yes, no problem. >> Okay, thanks. >> Thank you. Thank you very much.
>> Okay, so we're back to um item E, which is a discussion on the use of the consent agenda for licenses, permits, and utility petitions. This was requested by uh board member Smith. I've been trying to I'm trying to as move items off the list so we can um make
some progress here. So um Stuart, I'm going to turn this over to you. And there is an there is a summary in the staff um memo of those um
licenses uh that require hearings and some that are not. My only comment is there is a suggestion that the select board has the ability to this is on the first page to delegate public
shade and town owned trees items. I don't think we are I don't think we have that ability. >> You you've done it to the tree warden >> tree warden we do >> well there are certain appeals that come to us under the tree bylaw >> right after delegate that >> it goes first to the tree after it goes
>> and he has a hearing >> that's all I'm saying okay so Stuart you had brought this forward so >> yeah I I brought it >> and we have town council here who authored this or oversaw the opinion so >> take it from there >> just thinking that
Yeah, put it on. just thinking uh that um it might move things along a little quicker if some of more of these routine I was thinking at the time, you know, uh one day entertainment and one day um you
know, liquor licenses uh like we we did earlier tonight. Um could be done more expeditely and um that's really where I was where I was headed. Uh, >> okay. >> Jay comes back with his suggestion that
I think it was uh those that require hearings where we we have we have to uh have a you can't go onto a consent agenda. Is that what the gist I'm getting? >> Yes, >> I think so.
And the liquor licenses by and large not every single one do require a hearing. >> Kathy, you you prepare this. >> The ones that can be placed would be renewals. the temporary closures. Um, but the local licensing regulations as
written require that someone be present for special one days, which is why they cannot be on a consent agenda. If the board wishes to change the local licensing regulations and remove that requirement, perhaps then, as I understood the memo, then it could be,
but as it's written now, they cannot be. >> Well, like I said, I was just trying to move things along. So, um, the select board has the ability to design delegate certain items. Those items include,
um, traffic signage. I'm not sure. >> We delegate that to the police department or I I just >> Well, I I I wasn't suggesting at the time traffic. >> No, no, I know. This is just the summary of what they said. >> That kind of stands out because it gets to a a bigger question about the traffic
rules and regulations. >> Yeah. >> Which we should address. Um so if we have to redo or rewrite the licensing regulations uh then maybe maybe that's what we have to look at.
All all I was suggesting was these these these relatively routine one day liquor or like we just did for >> for a number of businesses from five to 10 for >> six we had six of them tonight. >> Yeah. that that seem to >> that we seem to
>> what we're saying is if we if we amended our regulations to not require personal appearance, Kathy, then we could have put all six of these on the consent agenda. >> Is that is that what I'm hearing? >> As far as I understood the memo, >> Jay, >> yeah, that for that specific license, we
found it to be purely local in in in character. Of course, nothing requires that you do. If you feel one that is problematic, just like in town where town meetings pull things out of consent. You could always say, "Well, this one could be controversial. Let's pull it out."
>> I think the rationale for this this went into place before you got on the board, but I think our rationale for it was twofold. liquor was involved and uh particularly on these holiday events and
there have been some instances people walking into the street with with a a glass of alcoholic beverage and the other was to give the sponsor an opportunity to sort of get some free publicity for their their event and that
was the thinking behind it but I mean I don't feel strongly in either direction on on this but I understand I especially understand as chair you're interested in wanting to move the meeting along. >> Well, it it not that I don't like meeting with you folks, but I think there's a there's a
>> there's a number of more important issues. If if we if time is a constraint for once a week, then maybe we need to >> tighten up on >> Corey then Shireen. >> All right. On changing the regulations for the alcohol, >> you're not going to get my vote on that one. I do think that has helped out
tremendously putting an a specific person with a business understanding what we expect from them. There's a there's a level of responsibility that they have they've been identified. I think it helps I think it helps the process. Okay. >> I think this there's feelings pro and con about these events that we hold in
the town. I think the adding of the person a person being you know vis v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v phys v physible either on teams or in person when they ask for these licenses has been a benefit to the process. So, you're not going to get me to vote against that or change that. Um,
you know, trust me, I've been on this board a long time. I was on the planning board for a long time. Long meetings are not my preference. But I I got to say this, 99% of the time, some of these benign items are exactly that. But we've had those
situations where like we've had someone who has a significant issue uh with a you know, endstart coming in and doing this project. We we had it a couple months ago. You know, people people are hesitant to come to the select board meetings. They don't know how to talk,
when to talk, you know, the right protocol. Sometimes um a consent agenda. Well, I well, I am thrilled with the concept of trying to make a meeting shorter. It kind of puts another hurdle into letting the citizens who may have a significant issue come forth and be able
to communicate with us. and and I don't think it takes that much more of our time um that we can't accommodate that. I think we can be more efficient with our time maybe um but I'm not a super big fan of the consent agendas because
it does I don't want to say fasttrack some of the conversations but it it it eliminates a potential for a concerned citizen to really be able to focus on an issue. So that's my thoughts. >> Shireen >> and I'm going to say the total opposite.
>> Okay. I'm just um I think I think we did a consent agenda during co I remember as chair we had uh some instances of that and you know it was timely because we had so much on our plate and I think it's up to you the chair to say if you feel that
something is you know appropriate for a consent agenda that it gets placed there and if the board decides that they need to take it off the the agenda we have the right to do that and we discuss it but I think there are some real rudimentary things that we can just move
forward um that you know but it would be entirely up to the chair to be make those decisions. >> As you probably recall when you were chair when I meet with Jill and Kathy weekly we do look at the list to see if there there's anything that should go on
the consent agenda. Um so we try to move it along that way. >> Um >> well you know and we have a protocol that we do. Yeah, I agree with Corey on having the folks come in want a one-day license. I I think he's spot on. I would be comfortable with no no uh renewals being
automatically renewed a alcohol license that's been been given with no issues. I think that I'm fine there. Temporary closure if someone wants to close temporarily in the winter time, you know, I'm fine with that as well. >> Going on the consent agenda. >> Yep. Going on the consent agenda. Yep. And there are a couple more that
especially in the in with lensure um issuing a licenses uh common inholder and common victor license um you know that suspension or revocation requires a hearing and approval but you know I think we can we know the we know the I think there's some here that we can
really fast track. I don't know what a Sunday dessert license is. >> Guess we don't >> that's your common Vic chiller. >> Oh that that Oh that's your common Okay. which used to be $5 in the good old days and then we raised it to $100. But hey,
>> anyway, I I do think there are items here that could be placed on the consent agenda and I I would look forward to that. >> Well, may I suggest maybe Kathy hearing this discussion make a list of the ones >> and then when we meet >> we can throw them on the consent agenda and if somebody wants to pull one off we
can take it off. >> Right. your point. The consent agender pol pro procedure allows us that if any once select board member says I want to remove this item that's the process >> it's in our um protocol for conducting meetings that we have a consent agenda
case anything more on this or >> nope I found this memo to be very helpful >> okay great thank you yeah thank you Jay to your to you and your colleagues for that memo Um, next. So, that was E. We jump down to
>> N. I would No. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Shireen. This is another one of >> a member board member request. This is um >> discussion on landscaping and signage at the pumping stations. And uh Rob Philly and I think there is a memo in the file.
>> There is. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Rob Philly, director of public works. So this was requested by select board member Davis on both November 19th, 2024 and July 8th, 2025. So this one's for you, Shireen. >> Okay. Thank you. >> One of the biggest challenges in
developing sewer expansion projects is finding suitable land in which to locate pump stations. At times, negotiations with property owners occur for easements uh to locate the pump station on their property. Other times, town parcels are used. Um during design we need to strike
a balance between the type of pump station needed, how it will fit into the surrounding neighborhood, environmental impacts, maintenance concerns, and cost. So I just um created a PowerPoint to kind of go through a lot of the pumps, actually all the pump stations, but just
to show some of the consistencies in design and and that and then some of the unique characteristics we had to just based on the site. So So there are 17 active pump stations in use right now. I categorized them into three different types. There are small pump stations. Those are some of the original pump
stations in smaller neighborhoods. There are seven open pump stations which is surrounded by fences with no buildings. And then there are seven enclosed pump stations which have uh buildings on the site. So the out of the three small pump stations, they're at the housing
authority horseshoe lane and Oyster pond furlong. Um, these are very small, low volume. There's no generator at these pump stations. Originally, when we uh were building these, D didn't require generators. They figured if there were smaller pump stations, if there was a
power outage, we can go up and plug in a generator to it. They've since changed their methods and they really push us to have generators at every pump station site. So, we typically don't really put pump stations like this in anymore.
>> Okay. Uh, so what we prefer are the open type of pump stations. There's a a smaller footprint. Um, they're easier to fit in with neighborhoods, lower cost, and there are seven of those uh in in
Chadam. Typically, there's a solid fence in front, uh, chain link fence on the three other sides, but that's not always the case. So, here is the Meta View pump station on the left, solid fence in front, chain link fence around the sides. Everything is pretty much hidden
from view. Um we have landscaping on either side to kind of help screen it. Um but we have all of our our pumps, our generator, our control panels, everything behind that fence, but it is a gate. So, and you can see an access drive so we can get in there with vehicles. Um Balffor pump station on the
right. Very similar design. There is a little bit of a solid fence that wraps around the side just to help screen it. again landscaping um just to try to prevent it from um sticking out in the neighborhood too much. Uh Skyway pump station on the left again
solid fence in front chain link around the sides landscaping. Same with perch pond pump station on the right. Very similar design. This is what we strive for. Uh this is the very easy and consistent design for us to to follow.
So, of course, with every kind of design, there are always exceptions. Um, on the left is George Ryder Road pump station. That's at the animal control facility. It's way in the back. We don't We have fence around the animal control facility. Doesn't really need to be
screened. I think it's pretty well hidden from view for the most part. I think a lot of people wouldn't even realize there's a pump station there. Queen Anne pump station on the right. That's the new pump station. So, it was Queen AM pump station at the Village Market was one of the original pump stations and we recently reconstructed
this. Um, again, there's no fence on the front because it would block sight distance. We really didn't feel like it fit in with the character of the neighborhood to have a big solid fence there. So, we did a lot of robust landscaping to try to have it blend in. That one brown bush has been replaced
since that picture was taken. Um, but I think once the vegetation grows, it's going to be behind a pretty lush screen of vegetation. And another exception is Twinefield pump station. Um these both of these pictures are Twinefield. Um we had to basically
wedge this p this pump station in between Morton Road, Twinefield Road and the bike path. Um so we did on the right hand side you see we did some landscaping there. As that uh grows up it'll help screen the pump station from the bike path. Um, but you could say
we're we're really packed in there pretty tight. Uh, there's not really much room for any additional landscaping or anything else to try to screen the site from the neighborhood. And then the third category is the enclosed pump stations. So, they're typically larger. Uh, there's a larger
footprint involved. Um, we can blend it in with some neighborhoods. And um some of the pump stations are two stories to keep it out of the flood plane and we have a number of those in Chadam. Uh so like the Lime Hill pump station on the left, the neighbors in that area that
were being connected to that pump station requested a building. So we were able to accommodate that because we had a larger parcel of land there. Uh the Huckleberry pump station on the right is out by the water pollution control facility. So we had abundant land there as well. Both of those are pretty large
pump stations. the Mil Pond pump station on the left, that's an original pump station that we recently reconstructed. Uh because it was in the flood plane, we had to have the generator and all the pumping control equipment up above that flood
plane stage. And because it was in a residential neighborhood and close to uh the pier, we tried to do a little granite uh veneer on it to try to dress it up a little bit to make it look a little nicer in the neighborhood it was going to be in. uh Barnhill Pump Station. Again, the neighborhood uh they
requested a building. We originally proposed an open pump station, but they felt a um a building would fit in better. Almost look more like a boat house kind of structure, but there is a solid fence around the other sides where the generator is next to the building.
Uh stage harbor pump station on the left. So, this is another one of the original pump stations. All the pumps and everything are in the brick building. When a generator was added, that was put in behind the fence enclosure that's in the town parking lot behind the Orphium theater. Yeah,
landscaping is a little sparse. I mean, if we were to improve the landscaping, we may detract from some of the parking that's available. Um, Meeting House North Pump Station. Uh, this is a pretty large pump station. and it uh it pumps
flow from not only Chadam, but all of Harwitch's flow goes through that pump station. Uh that was an easement with a private property owner. We put a fence, a solid fence around the backside to try to screen the pump station from the property owner. Um we did plant
landscaping at this, but all the landscaping for the most part died along the roadside. We're not opposed to adding a solid fence on the front to screen it from the road, but again, would that make it more industriallooking? Um, we could try more
landscaping, but again, the success rate, the watering kind of a hostile environment right there. I don't know what the success rate would be on that. All of the infrastructure is built up right up to the back of that guardrail. So, it would have to be on the roadside of the guardrail.
And this finally is the meeting house southp pump station. Uh that's another building. Uh again it was a a larger site. Uh we wanted to try to put it in a building because at one point there was talk about a fire station being
constructed as well on this parcel. And we heard some of the residents in South Chattam felt that it was ugly and we wanted to they wanted to landscape it. So we did. So it's a before and after picture left and right. Um, we recently put in $35,000 of landscaping. Um, this
is the driveway off of Route 28. Uh, you can see even on the left and right side of the gate, it's been landscaped. So, uh, that will flourish and, uh, we do water those. There's a a connection to a hydrant to get them established. We planted them this fall, so the survival
rate will be a lot better because we planted them in the fall and we have a watering provision. And finally is the pump station signage. So every one of our pump stations has this uh language on it. So it has the identifying location of where the pump
station is. It does say sewage pump station and it has an emergency phone number. Now I know the word sewage may be the issue. Um we can certainly there's no requirement that we have to label it as a sewage pump station. It could just be called a pump station if
that's, you know, we can we could change all the signs going forward and we can even address some of the signs that are out there now if they're in sensitive areas. So, we're not opposed to that as well. But I just wanted to have that discussion and lay those options out for
you and um go from there. >> Thank you, Shireen. >> Thanks, Rob. I appreciate that. I I think when I was um driving around and I was seeing um the pump station designs and whatnot, it was a lot of it was well
are they all treated equitably in their design and their harmony within the the the neighborhoods. And one that stood out to me was uh you know because it's more near and dear to my heart was the twine field um pump station or and and
that it is quite intrusive in in in size compared to obviously explaining the the land size that it sits on. Um, I I was just wondering if there was any I mean the colors and all that that you
see with with some of the you know that those the ones that have the like the Twinefield one it seems like the color is for me I I don't want to be a a a taste police but you know they they seem to be a little more in like if they were
gray or something maybe they would be less intrusive. I'm just um I'm just looking at like from a visual point of view. I I like the idea that you're able to do some of the plantings around them because I think that in as you said in 10 years you probably won't even know
they exist there. Um but some that are more difficult areas. Is there a way to do something that could be less intrusive? Uh the signage being more subtle um is definitely something I think that should be done because these
are neighborhoods and this is industrializing. It's an industrial project. It's an infrastructure and um you know I think that they should really be try to do something or I feel they should be um
that have some sort of complimentary kind of u feel to them to the neighborhood. Um, and I think that's mostly what my concern has been as I've seen that we're we're doing more. I mean, how many more are we going to have in the community? Quite a few. Correct.
>> Yes. The number >> it's like 30 over 80. >> Oh, it is 80. Wow. Oh gosh. Um, so in saying that, you know, maybe going forward there could be some sort of like design element concept that, you know,
has has a little more um sort of an eye to the to the neighborhood, you know, aesthetics to it. Thank you very much. And yeah, I mean it especially when you cannot get the
the um the landscaping around it. Yeah. in in the signage. >> Yeah. >> Could you replace the word I know you don't have to have the word sewage in there, but what if you have just the word sewer? Sounds a little more palatable. >> Or even just pump station. >> We could just have pump station.
>> Um because people the only pump stations we have in Chattam are water pump stations and sewer pump stations. And the water pump stations don't have public access. So we'd know if they said, "Hey, there's an alarm going off at the meeting house pump station." >> No one's going to mistake one of these as a water pump station.
>> Right. Okay. Okay. Well, maybe we we take the word sewage out. Is that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll just I'll send my thoughts over to Jill and just so she gets a better sense of I don't want to go into everything. It's too late in the night, but
>> I appreciate you sticking around for us tonight. No, >> thank you. >> Do we Is it We have to replace If we drop the word sewage, we have to replace a whole bunch of signs. 19. >> Yeah, but there I mean I don't think they're not like Yeah. big expense or anything like probably we should go in that direction. All right. Thank you. Any other comments from the board?
>> Yeah, I was just going to say it's this is real very interesting. Thank you very much to focus on these that there's a world of difference between the Mil Pond station and kind of meeting house north station. I mean that there's kind of a world. So I I aesthetically prefer the house rather than the open if you will
if you can if you can pull that off. Um, and uh, appreciate the amount of amount of work and getting the the square feet to do these, I think, is is is an art in and of itself, you know, where where they go, you know, blah, blah, blah. >> Yeah. And we do meet with the community
because if if they say, you know, the neighborhood says, "Hey, we'd really prefer collectively a building." Um, we try to make that happen. So, as long as we have the room for it. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Rob. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you, Rob. The next uh substantive item is to
consider slashapprove the select board goals and objectives. We did have a handout this evening as well on this um pull this up here. So um Mr. Chair, we had uh we have a
slide uh presentation. So, we have the slides handed out as well as a status sheet on the goals and objectives and what's been achieved to date. >> Yeah. Before you begin, let me just see if I can find that.
>> Do you need the staff report? >> I have it here. I just It's out of place. >> Okay. And I'm just looking for the slides. Okay. Uh, so I'll turn it over to you, Jill, I guess,
>> for starters. And I I I know that Stuart was not on the board when these were first voted in a couple years ago at a work session and then um the last year or two, we basically just kept them in place
um during um meetings of the of the select board. So, I'll turn it over to you, Joe. >> Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, as you had just mentioned, a couple of years ago, uh, the board had refined its community vision statements plural, as
well as the goals and objectives. And what we have for you tonight is um for your annual review of your goals and objectives is um information to highlight the reason why and where we're going and also to provide you the
opportunity as a board if you want to make any changes. So essentially tonight is it's up to you whether you want this to be considered your goal session or if you at this late hour want to consider continuing it to another meeting or another session. I just wanted to be cognizant of uh select board member
Smith just joining the board in 2025. I did provide him the materials from 2023 uh and to get us to where we are now. So um C Kathy's going to join me in a presentation. I'm going just to kick it
off in a couple of slides. So this information is really important in setting the g the board's vision statement and accompanying goals. It really provides us the policy framework for service delivery priorities,
planning, budgeting and community engagement. And they also guide the word work of town staff and town committees, boards and commissions to ensure alignment with the board's direction and priorities. And this alignment also strengthens clarity and accountability
across our organization, helping each employee to understand how their efforts advance community priorities. And it also reinforces our collective purpose and dedication to serving the public effectively. So namely the why is clarifies as you see direction and
purpose and enhances the decision making ensures alignment with the vision statement allows for ongoing evaluation of progress and performance accountability and measurement of progress and strengthens community support in town initiatives.
This is the vision statement that the town had first voted in 2024 and reaffirmed in I'm sorry, voted in January 2044 and reaffirmed in October 29th, 2024. And I can read it out loud
for the public who's listening. Cadam in 2030 will be a forwardlooking, engaged and inclusive community of demographically diverse year-round citizens that maintains a unique integration of preservation of its pristine environment, promotion of a
healthy economy, fiscally responsible and responsive leadership and a welcoming environment for all to Chattam. This slide reflects the goal buckets per se that have were previously voted and
it's a general category and with objectives following. So we and this is in no particular order. We have year-round housing, environmental conservation, coastal resiliency and natural resources, educational excellence, water management, foster a
vibrant, sustainable local economy, and respond effectively to the needs of a diverse, welcoming, and livable Cadam. >> So, I'm going to hand this over to hand it off to Kathy. So, um, as the town manager said, um, in
the last year, we we kept all of the goals and objectives the same. And we asked staff again this year to do, um, an update to a matrix, which you have in the packet. It's the spreadsheets that has one page per goal and then each of
the objectives that the board chose as um, objectives for that goal. So, what we're going to go through in the next couple slides are um some highlights because as you can see there's a lot on that matrix and rather than sit here and go through every single item, we kind of
picked out some of the highlights to review. So, beginning with again in no particular order, but we began with year- round housing. Um the first objective under that goal was to ensure all current properties for total have
requests for proposals issued in uh calendar year 2025. Um so as we all know Main Street and Meeting House Road are currently being reviewed. Um decisions are are pending and will be made soon.
Um Stepping Stones Road, the request for proposals was advertised on November 5th. And then tonight the board discussed 127 Old Harbor Road and next steps towards moving that forward. >> I just wanted to um ask does the board want to have comment on these one by one
slide by slide or do you want to proceed at the end? I have a comment on this one for example but how would you like to proceed? >> We could do that as we go. >> Yeah I just and I'm not proposing any change but the very goal itself of 200
units within the next five years. So, we voted this in in 2022. Um, so 5 years is almost we're halfway there. Um, >> 23. We bought it in 23. >> Okay. Uh, it's the 200 units which I
think is aspirational. I don't know where we would. Let's assume that the zoning board approves both Penrose projects. So, we got about 90 >> units there. Where are we going to find
places to put another hundred units in the next I just all I'm saying is I I think it's ambitious. That's all. >> I I agree with you and I think I was wondering >> I'm not saying to downsize it. I just >> Yeah, I agree with you. But I I you know it is aspirational and and that's where
we should we should look at it in that respect and and aspire >> okay >> to it. uh it doesn't mean you but the reality of the the fact is that we don't have a lot of land in perhaps maybe that 200 units um will be added around
Chattam might be that we might co-partner with you know another town or something like that so I'd leave I would from that perspective >> Corey well uh um I would be fine getting rid of the 200 I the focus is is flat out that we we we support affordable
housing projects they need to be of a variety of scale and at a variety of locations in the town and and I think that collectively is your bear goal, you know, because unfortunately things take longer in municipal projects. So 200 could take uh 10 years, I don't know. Um
so I I I don't want a random number to be a a stumbling block. It I I get why we put it in originally. Uh I'm I'm less enthused about having a hard number, whatever number it is. I just I just want the the actions and and the philosophical approach that we're
looking at. But >> okay, Jeeoff, >> we also aspire to to you know get to our 10% SHI over time. So that may be a way to also define this. I mean whether we get there or not over time, who knows? But um it's going to take a lot of units, but we'd like to get that to that
10% SHI. That's going to get us out of the 40B game and it's going to provide a whole lot of housing. >> Okay. >> I mean, it's another way to another way to put it. Okay. Well, we had two different concepts here. I wasn't proposing a change. I just Okay.
>> threw it out. >> All right. Then I I I don't mind keeping it the way it is. >> Same. >> Stuart, do you have a comment on this? >> Where did the 200 units does that what does that get to us uh in percentage?
>> Well, Stuart, the the idea of the 200 units was affordable, attainable, and workforce housing. So, it didn't really define it just as affordable housing, which is which is that 10% factor. >> So, it we we don't we don't know what that
>> we don't know. Yeah. >> Um because it's would seem to me that I agree with Dean that the five years is probably I think we have to change that. Um and what were the thinking under the
objectives? Uh number three it says support Chattam neighborhood village center zoning initiatives. I get all that promote. >> Where are you looking? >> Uh objectives goals uh select >> Oh. Oh, I was looking at the slide which is li more limited. So you're looking at >> Yeah, I can hardly see the slide.
>> I think that was when the planning board was considering West Chadam overlay district, >> right? >> Yes, that's what that was. >> So did that pass town meeting? >> No, it did not. >> No, it did not. So >> I have the next slide is actually I mean
I went objective by objective. >> Okay. >> So we will we'll get to that in a second. >> Okay. >> Um >> well I mean my sense is as far as the 200 I' being kind to leave it. I understand what Corey's saying. Me too. >> Um but I it's I I think it's kind of to
me it's kind of inoffensive. >> So I'd be inclined to leave it. I think I seems to be a I don't want to say it's a consensus but it seems to be I I do recall the very discussion at our offsite and it was defined as
aspirational and I think I think that still stays. >> Okay. Well, I'm MLAN to move on unless Steuart you had any more comment on that. >> Uh well I was well I'll wait for the Okay. All right. Go ahead Kathy. All right. I was just looking at the first slide you got.
Oh, I don't know what happened to that. But the objective is to support Chattam neighborhood um village center zoning initiatives promoting year-round housing increased density and inclusionary mandates. Um and so
uh under this objective work over the last year as you are aware at 2025 annual town meeting articles 39 and 40 for the West Chatam Neighborhood Village Center were brought forward. unfort uh they did not pass. Um article 30 did not p 39 did not pass and therefore article
40 which was the zoning map change was not considered. The planning board um is also currently reviewing the seasonal communities draft regulations um which may have an impact on what they are working on to re to go back to the
West Cadam Neighborhood Village proposal and then uh they will be bringing this that proposal back to town meeting in either 2026 or 2027. So that is the work done under that objective over the last year. Um
>> so so these what's in the light blue are your >> updates. >> Those are the staff that those aren't part of >> it's the work that's been done under that objective and whether or not I guess what is asked tonight is whether the board feels that the objective needs to remain as an objective or if it needs
if it's considered complete. You know the previous one you know those four >> is still pending. >> Yes. So that may stay as an objective again or you may say you know what we're close enough to done let's >> so but what's part of the goals and objectives are basically the goal up at
the top and the dark blue. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. And then below that is the work that's been done over the last year as identified by >> so under this one we know that the planning award especially in light of the seasonal communities draft regulations which we saw recently and
commented on um is kind of reworking their whole proposal on this. So we don't know what that's going to look like. And the question I guess for us is are we okay with the objective as it is recited here up at the top? That's what
was in there before. I I I um I don't know what they're going to come up with. >> Well, we supported their objective before. We supported their objective before and and I I feel as though as you know, we were as a board um in favor of
the village center concept and the planning board's um overlay district for West Chadam. So, I I I'm still like to give it a go. They had some great ideas. um and we don't know how seasonal communities are going to kind of
>> inject into it and then what what changes might be. So I would I I would feel it was still important to kind of support that objective >> and what they did when they came before us before they finalized it for town meeting and they made some adjustments based on our input. >> They did and they will do that again.
But anyway, I just throw it out there. Do we want any changes here? I found what? >> Okay. >> Any comments from anybody on we're on the um the objective that it's the second
objective under yearround housing which is to support the Chattam Neighborhood Village Center zoning initiatives. The question is whether we want to keep that, amend it or whatever. So, >> I think it's still in progress. Yeah. If
the board's willing to continue to have to direct the planning board to continue its review. >> I'm okay with it. >> Me, too. >> Shall we go on to the Y next slide? >> I'm going to try to reshare this. I don't know why the the text is
doing what it's doing. Hold on one moment. Looked >> like it was Turkish. All right. So, the next one >> actually >> is still under a year round uh housing, but the objective relates to sort supporting the advancement of current
infrastructure projects >> including the comprehensive wastewater management plan and strategic planning to ensure an adequate long-term supply of portable house water. >> Well, I think we keep this one. >> Why is this under housing talking about water? But I guess >> I know it's interesting. It is it isn't under
>> so and water are here. >> Um I believe at the time if I remember correctly for the workshop um in addition to housing to support year-round housing the thought was that we needed to make sure or you needed to make sure that the infrastructure was
also built up okay to match with >> and that's become that was raised as an issue we know in the Penrose proceedings >> and argument back and forth on that. Keep it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Below as you see it's a status to date. >> All right. I see the educational
excellence. >> Okay. Do we go on to education? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, um under educational excellence the there were two objectives. um one of which had substantial work done which was to provide adequate budgetary support to
ensure educational resources, facilities, programs and activities meet the needs of the town's student population. Again, annual town meeting funded the operational budgets for both Monoy Regional Schools and um Cape Cod Technical High School. Um the town
meeting also supported the additional funding requested for the Monmoy Regional Middle School siding and window replacement project. Um, additionally, the Dr. Florence Seldon preschool program support is in its fourth year and currently has nine four-year-olds and eight three-year-olds
enrolled for the 2025 2026 school year. Um, and then lastly, 1% of the short-term rental tax was placed in the Chattam Elementary School fund in the amount of um 9995,000
in FY2025. Do Jill, do we have we ever tapped into I know it's a new relatively new fund. Have we ever tapped into that? >> No, not yet. >> Okay. But it pulls in about a million dollars a year. Um I mean it seems to me the goal and the objective are
unchanged. Should be unchanged. >> Okay. >> Fost the next one at the foster a vibrant and sustainable local economy. >> I apologize. I I don't know what's going on with this program tonight. I'm going to I guess hold off on sharing and I'll
post the the slides and the minutes. >> So there's the object there are two objectives here. I'll read them. >> There were um there's actually five objectives underneath this goal, but I broke them up um kind of to cluster them to relevant ones. So the first slide you
have is um providing the object the two objectives presented are to provide the environment for business assistance, mentoring and promotion for new businesses in Chadam. Um and then uh it's anticipated that the economic development advisory committee will begin to look at this in the coming
months upon review of the select board goals and objectives. Um so they're they're going to take whatever you adopt and and use that as their template. The second objective task the economic development committee with the authority to develop an and and implement
executive strategies to advance the school in collaboration with the chamber. So as you recall the EDC was revived and began meeting in September and it's anticipated that the chamber of commerce director will be at their uh November 19th meeting to discuss with them.
>> Okay, those look okay. Okay, the next two under fostering a vibrant and sustainable local economy are to support the uh exploration of expansion for markets of markets for local businesses beyond the Cape, the Commonwealth in the
US in collaboration with the chamber. Um monthly meetings are currently held with the town manager and the communications manager um and the chamber of commerce executive director. you may have further discussion on this item um as as we go
through this um because I know there's been other items on the future agenda report that may have >> is this something that requires any tweaking or a look to those of you who are in business.
>> I'm I'm good with the way they stand right now. >> Okay, Corey. No. >> Okay. The next objective, uh, Kathy, >> um, on that same slide, uh, promote a stronger focus of the chamber's budget on the year- round townwide economy and
support its application to advertising and promoting Chattam outside of the summer season. And again, discussions are ongoing with the Chamber of Commerce executive director on ways that the town can collaborate on that objective. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Um the final objective under uh vibrant and sustainable local economy is to reopen and pursue the idea of partnering with an academic or government institution with a station research facility in Chadam. Um the Cadam academic research collaborative initiative is being revived and will
begin discussions on partnerships and programs that may be able to be offered in Chadam. And that I believe they're having their first meeting. I think at that and this sort of coincides with something Jeff had requested to go on the agenda. He was calling it um Woods whole east I think you called it
>> and it's something that I >> um initiated when I was chair last time and I I know we had some involvement. Sharine was got very much involved in it um as well. And uh my plan is to um I'm
going to have um kind of a a town manager level conversation about it and we're going to bring it back to the board. >> Good. >> To decide how to proceed with this, whether we want to create a committee or >> task force or something to look into it.
I'd like to to get that moving or that's my plan. So I' I'd like to see it stay. >> Got it. Yeah. Good. >> The next goal is environmental conservation, coastal resiliency, and natural resources. Um, there are currently five objectives underneath
this goal. Um, and as you can see in the matrix that was updated by staff, a lot of work has been done under this goal and the various objectives. um for the presentation and what I was going to talk about. I I picked out some highlights. You can read and it is included in the packet for the public to
also read the extensive notes provided by the various departments and divisions underneath these various objectives. But work has been completed across all five objectives including renewal of comprehensive townwide dredging and disposal permits. um comprehensive
survey of all town landings was performed and reviewed by various committees to identify further action goals. All ongoing and planned projects for renovations and enhancements to our waterfront infrastructure, include design goals for making these facilities more resilient to climate change, including rising sea levels and
heightened storm activity. The town has applied for the following grants for FY26. The SNP technical assistance grant, CZM coastal resilience grant, MVP, EOED, SEC, MD, FSIG, and port security grant, which
total $1.1 million um in just those grants alone. Um and then again, the academic research collaborative initiative is being revived. Um, again, those are kind of highlights under the objectives. I don't know if the board wants me to read for the public what
those objectives are, but >> we can read them. The objectives comprehensively assess the potential impacts of a catastrophic break in the barrier beach on the shore facing north and east, the fish pier, and little beach area of Chattam. Review all towns waterway
access points with the help of various waterways committees. Prioritize unobstructive access to all town waterways and landings. Provide budgeting for the impact study and future planning. Identify funding and grants that may be available for all coastal resiliency needs. Revisit the
idea of partnering with an academic or government institution with a station research facility in Chadam. Um, any thoughts about any of those? >> They look fine to me, Jeff. >> It's a lot of stuff.
>> Yes. important. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Water management. >> Okay. The next goal is water management. And again um under this one there are uh four objectives. The first two are the
first one is to promote the drilling of private wells for homes that wish to continue using or to install irrigation systems. And the DPW has continued to promote this um this objective. Um, and as you heard in Rob's report tonight also with the irrigation meters, it's
>> that that really has historically come as well from the from the water and sewer committee. And I know the water and sewer committee um is going to be considering uh a an idea to
require um that owners of public private wells comply with restrictions. that presumably that would come before the board. Um some of us have private wells and if when if and when it comes before we'll have to deal with that
issue. But I um so that's something that's pending but as far as having it in the um water management goals that's objectives is fine with me. The second objective would be to develop educational programs and outreach initiatives to raise awareness among residents about water conservation, the
importance of protecting water resources and individual actions that contribute to a sustainable water future. And as again we heard tonight, 2025 has been a major drought year on Cape Cod still with Cape Cod still at a level two drought. Um, so the DPW,
um, as you've been updated throughout this drought, um, has been, uh, providing notices and outreach campaigns with signage, social media postings, public meetings, and materials available, um, at the DPW for residents who need more information on water
conservation efforts. Then the final goal that had work completed um was implement water management practices derived or I'm sorry objective rather implement water management practices derived from the review of the comprehensive water
management plan that prioritize environmental s sustainability ensuring the protection of natural ecosystems wild hab wildlife habitats water quality and adequacy of potable water throughout the town. Um underneath this one again
more detailed information in the matrix but storm water runoff and discharge is being assessed at town landings and projects are being developed to halt road storm water runoff into wetland resource areas. Uh collaboration between the DPW and natural resources department
um has allowed for the incorporation of storm water treatment systems such as vegetated swailes, subsurface infiltration galleries, etc. into roadway and landing improvement projects which reduces runoff and pollutants entering the coastal waters supporting habitat protection and compliance with
MS4 storm water permit requirements. And then lastly, um the town integrates ecological restoration into water management projects which really does overall improve the quality of water. So again, these objectives Yes, >> I have a comment on the third bullet
that you just mentioned. >> Um the herring um you know, >> runs >> herring runs in between Still Water and Writers Cove need to be We need to pay attention to those. >> We have a Herring Morton. So maybe >> I think it's a mess
>> is >> it's a mess. >> That's too bad because that's a pretty major hering. >> It was like the only one we have. >> Yeah. >> So we need to pay attention to the herring run there. If you I mean this it's directly related to this bullet. This is reestablishing title flow and fish passage and our natural hydrarology, water quality and wildlife
habitats. But anyway, we So anyway, you have to pay attention to it. >> That would be under the direction of the warden, right? >> Well, under the direction of >> we have a a hering warding that we appointed someone. >> Maybe we need a report out from that. >> I think there's a not to interrupt, but I think we have state money that's
supposed to redo that entire co system underneath 28. They're working on that. That's um >> whom does he report to? Does he work with Greg? >> It would be Greg for natural resources. Yeah. Well, maybe we >> Anyway, so we'll >> get that message. >> The other other item I wanted to mention
just briefly is the uh the dredging plan and and Greg Burman wrote a a beautiful uh email and had a whole summarizing summarizing and stuff like Greg did. I would love to see that come before the board as well so everybody's informed about what we're doing with our dredging plan where it stands and in particular
know I got to I'm concerned about Bucks Creek and but I'm concerned about the south side and concerned about you know coastal resilience on the east side and you know so there's an awful lot there you guys a lot going on and >> dynamic coast >> dynamic coast and I just okay >> like to see how we're doing
>> when that that's >> happens it might be helpful to bring forward the um the dre the uh study. I think we appropriated $50,000 to study the feasibility of a town owned dredge it own >> dredge. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I don't know whether that ever came
before the board. >> It we had discussions >> it did years back. >> It wasn't so much if I recollect and correct me Dina and Shireen but and Corey, but wasn't so much the cost of the dredge and its financing. It was maintaining it and staffing it. >> Yep.
>> Well, no, I know the issues with it. Oh yeah, it's really the uh the article was uh to to engage with a consultant spend 50,000 to study the details of it so we better understood it. I don't know did that ever take place and I don't know if it did >> it did we yeah you know we could bring
it back >> we should review it when we review the dredging. >> Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Continue please. Um there was one additional goal but um it's probably still in process underwater management which was to task the water and advisory committee to
prioritize a review of the comprehensive water management plan. Um and I believe they're still maybe working on that. >> It's a big one. >> It's still on their list. >> It is still on their lists and it is still on this objectives list as well for >> kind of an ongoing thing.
>> All their work all their work is related to that. >> Related to it half of it the other half is water. >> Yeah. Okay. So then moving on to the next goal which is to respond effectively to the needs of a of a I'm sorry it's getting
late. Um of a diverse, welcoming and livable cadam. Um again there were multi there were three objectives but there was a lot of work done over the last year as you can see in the matrix. So I tried to again pick out some highlights from that. um ongoing ADA evaluation for
all town facilities including the Eldridge public library which will begin construction in winter of 2025 2026. Um the annual town meeting passed article 17 which was the expansion and renovation for the seal um at 193 Stony
Hill Road and town manager um has convened the CFL building working group to work in conjunction with the project team um as you are aware and uh recommendation is tenatively scheduled for December 2nd. Um the fire department has enhanced community risk reduction
efforts through continued collaboration with the police department sealon health division and then the health division community services and the board of health uh have joined with Barnesville County Health and Lower Cape Towns to address address health issues locally and regionally. And again just to point
out a lot there was a lot under the objectives for this goal. Um, and I highly recommend anyone in the public to go in and read because there's a lot more detail in this than what highlights have. >> Three objectives were to review the accessibility and adequacy of the town's
physical facilities for all. We're doing that. We've sort of done it and now we're implementing. Um, does that need some tweaking? Because we did the study, the ADA study. >> We're in the implementation phase now.
>> Yes. So we're so if we need to instead of review it could be implement or or >> continue >> continue implementation of ADA study recommendations
>> and the committee on disabilities is doing just that. >> Yes. >> So that would that would modify the first goal relative to the town's physical facilities for all. The next one is complete the physical and feasibility adequacy evaluation of 193
Stony Hill Road and develop a follow-up plan to address ongoing and future needs of Chadam seniors. >> I guess generically that covers what's doing what's going on now. >> Hopefully we won't have to have this objective in next year.
>> Okay, I'm I'm being optimistic, but I I think I have a reason to be. Yes. >> And the last is to safeguard the well-being of Cadam's residents through vigilant measures and a commitment to public health and safety. >> A lot of bullets into this one too, Dean.
>> Yeah. And I and I was going to add because we heard those recom request earlier in tonight's meeting about public safety. It's here as an objective as an objective under diverse and welcoming livable community.
Um, do we want to do we want a separate thing or do we want to leave it as is or may may suggest one way of I I remember when the words when the phrase public health came in. I think it was on the request of a citizen. I think it was Gloria Freeman actually
and we we added it in. We could we could put something in the actual goal saying to the needs of a diverse welcoming safe, healthy and livable community. Livable Chadam. >> It's fine.
>> I mean, Livable Chadam is a safe chat. >> I know. I know. >> You know, you just >> It's just ex I mean, >> we have it as an objective. Safety is an objective under this goal. I think it's covered. >> Okay. >> Um, personally, I I think that, you
know, it's not going away. Um and if you look there two, three, four, five, six, seven different items that have been you know uh have we've done >> okay >> in that respect. >> All right.
>> Any other comment on >> I just do wonder how the decentralized dispatch is doing. I haven't heard any complaint. >> Get some update on that one. >> Yeah, we'll do an update. It's it's going very well. >> Oh, good. This was posted, right? >> It is posted. So these materials are online. Okay.
>> I think I think the comments from the public were >> not not related. >> No, I can't find it. >> The public safety issues um you know in this particular case were
you know not particularly highlighted. There were you know there now I'm trying to find it. Here it is. um respond effectively to the needs of a diverse, welcoming and livable cadam. And then it's under there as a category
as an objective. And yeah, you're right. It's got quite a few. >> I think the idea is we were going to add safety to the to >> to the title. >> Yeah. Title so that it was >> public safety. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, that would probably highlight it more. >> It highlights it. Yeah. >> Well, are we
>> every every one of these items though on the bullets absolutely addresses it. Every one of them. Yeah. >> So, where where are we going with this? Are we leaving? >> It was We were just going to add public safety in the title. >> I said healthy and safety, but >> health and safety. It's wordy, but I think >> in the title. Yeah.
>> After the word welcoming, >> safe and healthy. >> Safe, healthy, and livable. Chadam, >> there you go. >> Is that okay? >> Good to go. >> Thank you. >> All right. We'll make those changes. >> Can I just make a quick just word? >> Yes, please. Work this. How about respond effectively to the
health and safety needs of a diverse and welcoming diverse welcoming and livable chatam or does that >> I don't think so directs it more about safety than any >> because I think yeah I think you're making making this is broader than health and safety meant to be >> broader yeah
>> so respond effectively to the needs of a diverse welcoming safe healthy and livable chat yes okay >> bless you Okay. >> Are we are we completed with it? >> Almost. Um actually, yes, that that is it.
>> That's done. We don't have to have a special session. >> Well, we have um select board member Steuart. I'm not sure if you wanted. Yes. You haven't had a chance to >> uh Well, other than other than making the print this side as
opposed >> your mic your mic. Uh, I was being fac well partially the I really like the print on pages two and three. >> That's an Excel printing thing. I tried
my best, but that's how it worked. >> I don't have to squint. >> Yeah. And that's the status versus the goals that are posted on the website. >> Yeah. Well, so the um I I guess are are we going to
uh re complete these forms that you folks did? Uh I got an example from >> we weren't planning to >> we we we did those and we put >> or is there >> Well, I think if we ever had another
session where we wanted to kind of take a a more indepth >> Well, I'm just suggesting that these great this grading >> Yeah. >> may change. >> It could. Yeah, it could.
>> So, >> I mean, I wasn't planning I wasn't thinking that we would that >> you're going to >> I would do them again, but >> this is from 23. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And Stuart obviously hadn't had the opportunity to input into this.
Would it >> I >> you know what I would suggest if if do you are are you thinking you want to take the time to to do that yourself? >> I I would think so. Yeah. >> So what we could do is we sort of reached consensus about what it looks
like right now. >> Yeah. And if you want to take a look at that and then give that information to Kathy and then we could get it back to us at a a future meeting in the near meeting in the near future and then we would take a vote on the final product
if there there are any changes that we think but I I I mean I don't really feel like I want to do that again but myself. >> Oh I yeah that's >> anybody else I think is welcome to do that I suppose. Okay. Well, then >> but you haven't had the opportunity to input in. So, I think it's only fair that we hear what you want to bring for
might want to bring forward. >> Okay. So, maybe you can put this form in my mailbox and I'll fill it out then. >> Okay. So, how's that? Everybody comfortable with that approach? >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you,
Joe. Um final item is uh there's an a committee appointment for the open space committee and we had um a resignation for >> George Cooper. >> George Cooper. We need to send him a letter Kathy. He's done a lot of work.
He he was on the water and sewer committee too for a long time. Um, and George Tennyson is currently Gary Tennyson is currently uh an alternate member and the suggestion is that he be moved up to the
full member position. This is an unexpired term. So then he would be eligible for a three-year appointment. So is there a motion on this? >> Mr. Chair, I move to appoint Gary Tennyson as a full member of the Open Space Committee until June 30th, 2028,
unless sooner revoked or successor is appointed. >> I second that. >> Okay, I'll call the role. Um, Miss Davis, >> I >> Mr. Dykins. >> Hi, >> Mr. Matters. Hi, >> Mr. Smith. >> I >> and the chair votes I. >> Very good. Five to zero. Uh, final motion of the night.
>> Go ahead. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second as well. >> Moved and seconded to adjurnn. Miss Davis. I >> Mr. Dykins. Hi, >> Mr. Meadows. >> Hi, >> Mr. Smith. >> I chair votes.ai. We are adjourned at 9:17 p.m.
>> Thank you.