[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]
[Music] [Music] Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and
welcome to the September 30th, 2025 meeting of the Cadam Select Board. Please note this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, please notify the chair. Seeing
none, pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28th, 2025 signing of chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extending certain CO 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law Massachusetts general laws chapter 38 section 20 until
June 30th, 2027. This meeting of the Chattam Select Board is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in
progress may do so by calling the phone number 1508-945-4410 conference ID 23203. That's 203386491 pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the
posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Chattam TV Xfinity channel 1072 despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide realtime access. We will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible.
First order of businesses to establish a quorum. Miss Davis >> present. Mr. Dykins >> present, >> Mr. Mr. Meadows present, >> Mr. Smith >> present, >> and the chair is present. >> Um, first business item is to approve four sets of minutes, which we I think
can do fairly quickly. The first are is a set of minutes from February 25th, 2025. Is there a motion to approve? >> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Are there any comments, corrections? >> Hearing none, we'll call the role. Miss Davis, >> I. >> Mr. Dykins,
>> abstain. >> Mr. Meadows. I, >> Mr. Smith, >> I. >> And the chair votes I. So that's 401. Approved. Next are the minutes of March 4th, 2025. Is there a motion? >> Motion to approve. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Any comments or corrections? Hearing
none. Miss Davis, >> I. >> Mr. Dykins, >> abstain. >> Mr. Meadows. >> I. >> Mr. Smith, >> abstain. >> And did you abstain on the previous one as well? >> I was hoping you weren't catching that, but I shouldn't
>> I will I will I will amend the the vote to say that you abstained. So that's 302 on that and 302 on this one. I didn't catch that. Um next are the minutes of March 18th, 2025. Is there a motion >> to approve? >> Second.
>> Moved and seconded. Um is there any corrections or comments? Hearing none, we'll call the role. Mr. um Miss Davis >> I. >> Mr. Dyken. >> Hi. >> Mr. Meadows. >> I. >> Mr. Smith >> of state
>> and um and the chair votes yes. So it's that's uh 401 and last is minutes of August 12th. >> Motion to approve. >> 25. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Um I have one editor
I think or two actually on page five. These are just typos, but uh almost just more than halfway down the paragraph that believes that the town of Chadam water the tadam the town of Chattam water department rules and regulations.
Um in the second line the word languages I think should be sing singular language. And in the last paragraph third line from the bottom um the third word in from the right hand side which says R. I think it I think it should read ah the
letter a before the words insert a comma before the words. Is that correct? You can check that Kathy. I may have that wrong. I some reason I thought R was incorrect but whatever
you have something Mr. >> I do not. I don't. >> Okay. Anybody else? Okay. So we'll uh take a vote on this. Um, Miss D, Miss Davis, >> I >> Mr. Dykins, >> hi. >> Mr. Meadows, >> hi. >> Mr. Smith, >> I >> and the chair of votes side. That's five to zero.
>> Next, we have public announcements and agenda item request. The town manager has two announcements. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. The first one relates to Muddy Creek Route 28 will be temporarily closed on Saturday, October
4th, 2025 between 8:30 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. for a dedication ceremony honoring World War II veteran Army Private Joseph Conrad Blute, who was killed in action while serving in Europe. The public is welcome to attend the dedication ceremony in honor of the memory and
sacrifice of Private Blute. And then the next one is the Visiting Nurses Association of Cape Cod and the Chattam Health Department are holding vaccination clinics on Wednesday, October 15th from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon and on Thursday, October 23rd from
3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Registration is required and the links to register were included in the September 26 meet sheet. >> Thank you. Does any member of the board, Miss Davis? Um, I just want to reiterate an
agenda item that I put forward in our interview. Um, that the uh draft regulations for the seasonal community designation has come out of the executive off office of housing and livable communities um and are open for
public comment until October 31st, 2025. So, if anybody out there, but I'm hoping that we'll be able to take this up as an an agenda item to review and comment. on um you may go to um uh the Mass um
Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities website and you'll be able to click a link uh to review the comments and to to share your um thoughts. Uh Rep. uh Luddy and um Senator Sier asked that any comments be CCed to their offices.
Secondly, um the uh Cape Islands Municipal Leadership Association has been meeting on wants to uh has been doing a little outreach to all the towns to sort of give a uh hey hello and this is what we do kind of uh thing and and
sort of uh um you know give an overview of of of the association's work and um programs and opportunities. So, uh, and love an an agenda item, uh, or maybe it's even during public comment, uh, that, uh, the board president, Mark Forest, would like to come and just give
a brief comment on on the organization. >> Okay, we will do both of those. I think we should probably do the seasonal communities, which came out this afternoon. >> It did come out this afternoon. >> Um, and Kimla is doing has a legislative breakfast that came out this afternoon on the 10th of October.
>> October 10th and they're going to hear a presentation. So, we'll be able to all of us will be able to attend that. Great. Um, I think we'll probably put the seasonal communities on for the 14th >> is if the deadline is the 30th. That probably makes sense. >> Thank you, Dean.
>> And we we'll have invite Mr. Forest at a subsequent meeting. >> Any others from the board? Mr. Smith? >> Thank you, Dean. Um wondering if we could uh consider a couple of agenda requests uh for the
near to medium future. Um one is maybe an update. This could this could also take place during uh Rob Phley's updates on the water. >> Well, maybe um but the COA
uh update on the construction of the renovations of the COA building. Mhm. >> Uh that would be helpful. Um I'd like to see a uh public records policy for the town. Um we have a public records law and um I think it would be
helpful for the public to have a policy they can go to that understand and uh what they can expect from the town. Um there's a couple of others. >> Could I just interrupt? >> Do you have some thoughts that you want to put down and submit to the board for
consideration? Sure, I could do that. >> Okay. All right. >> Um, thank you. And um the other two which if I don't know what your list looks like uh but I'd like to discuss the um personnel committee that's
mentioned in the charter and um a general uh and maybe it's can be in parcel with um Shireen but the uh a housing discussion a general housing discussion on different initiatives that the board might consider and I can I can
list those out Okay. >> I think on the Thank you. Um on the COA update, I think we're going to try to have something on the 14th of October. >> Yeah, that's fine. If >> I Yeah, I think we want to hear we want to hear because there are some finalized
estimates which haven't come in yet. >> Yeah. And the um I think you you you folks are aware of the um buoy reduction letter from the Coast Guard or comments from the we sent in comments. The Coast Guard responded. We got
I would say the wrong buoys, but nonetheless, um, we should probably respond by letter, but I do want to have a discussion with the board on that >> because there there could be some fiscal impacts that >> Okay. >> I'm not I don't want to presume.
>> Is there a time consideration on that? >> Yeah, there the the letter is due by uh November 14th, so we have some time. >> Okay. >> And my thoughts are easy. Um, >> okay. >> Maybe we can put that on for the first meeting after the 14th. Not on the 14th.
>> The 28th would be the >> 28th. That would be my suggestion. No. >> Okay. Is that it, Stuart? >> That is it. Thank you. >> Okay. Any others from the board? Any uh public announcements or agenda item requests from the public? Gloria Hicks.
Hi, Gloria Hicks, meeting house road. Um, I would like to request again a speed limit drop on Route 137 from Commerce Park to Route 28. Um, I spoke with the Department of Transportation myself. I ran it also by Rob Phale. That
is a townowned maintained road. Um, I was under the assumption a couple years ago it was a state road. It is not. Um the police are constantly detailing that pro, you know, prolling that road from the churches all the way to 28. Um with
the housing development going in, they will get a sidewalk. Um the abutters will not get a sidewalk. I haven't heard of any talk and I'm highly unlikely we'll get one. So we're going to be forced to walk on 137 to get to the bike trail instead of using that easement
road that's there. Uh, it'd be nice if we had a sidewalk, but I don't have much hope for one. The development will have a sidewalk. So, um, if we could drop that speed limit from 40 to 35, it would be helpful. Um, and I don't know what's
going on with the digital speed limit readouts. There was one on the corner. I believe it was Morton and 137, and then there was one on each side, and now none of those are there. So, I don't know what the plan is. Um there's a do not pass sign that is completely obstructed
with tree limbs. So um it would it would just be really helpful. People just bomb down that road. >> The the you can probably get some information on that from the police department. They're placing them >> um at their discretion at the mobile ones.
>> So why would they remove them? Um, I'm I would assume they're placing them in different locations and they're there for a period of time and moving them somewhere else, but you could probably get better information from that from Chief Anderson >> or or Deputy Chief Melzone. >> Okay.
>> Mr. Mr. Chair, would it be more productive for Gloria to recommend that we just remand that over to the uh traffic study committee so that they could the 137 issue? >> The 137 we we could do that. Um um we don't it's really not before us to make
that determination at the present time. This is just an agenda item request. >> I'm just Okay. >> You haven't taken this up with the traffic. >> I have not. Is that where I should take it before I take it? I brought it up here before and it I I don't didn't hear anything back. So I don't know where I'm supposed to take this. >> Most often we have them take a look at
something and then they make a recommendation. >> Let me put it this way. Unless someone on the board insists that it come before us first, I would suggest that you might start with the traffic safety committee. >> Okay. >> They would make a recommendation to us. They'll investigate it and take make a
recommendation to us. Okay. You can always come back to us if you feel you're not >> okay. >> Getting we can help connect you with the track safety comm. >> Well, I I the meetings are posted so I can just go to one of the meetings, I suppose, and and ask them. >> Okay. All right. >> All right. Thank you, Gloria.
>> Hannah Smith, I saw your your hand up. Dean, one second if I if I might. >> 137. Um I I was always under the impression it was a state road. Does that mean 137, 124, 13, 13? I mean, all
of those roads going down the Midcape or >> My understanding is that all those perpendicular streets are state numbered roads, but they're local but they're municipal roads. We we plow them. >> Yeah. Yeah. My understanding was we
maintained them, but that the state owned them. Now, I'm just I'm wondering whether it would be helpful uh in conjunction with this going to the traffic study that maybe Jill could >> I think the construction safety committee will have to look at take that into consideration.
>> The Department of Transportation. >> Yeah, I know. But there's there's general confusion over this issue and I'd like to have it definitively answered for once. Maybe maybe Jill could write an email. duly noted and I think the traffic safety committee will take a take a look at that. >> Miss Smith,
>> Hannah Smith, uh, North Road Chadam. Um, I wasn't really planning on saying this today, but I I think it should be addressed. Um, it's not about water. >> Happy to hear that. >> Uh, so I'm sure everyone's aware of the
Gabriel House um fire and Fall River. Uh, I believe it was yesterday, the day before, the Fall River Fire Chief actually went on um local news and asked um all towns not only in Massachusetts but across the United States to be aware
of the recalled sprinkler systems because he recently went around in the community and found that additional four buildings in Fall River had those same recalled sprinkler systems. Um, so I guess I'm just up here, not necessarily, I guess, for an agenda item request, but
an announcement, um, to see if there's anything, you know, we can do apart from the the fire chief making an announcement or, you know, making businesses aware. But I feel that we should just kind of put something out
there whether it's the town manager's monthly reports just really anywhere even you know trying to get in the newspaper just talking about okay here is you know I I didn't write down the number for the recalled sprinkler systems but um I can get that but the
Fall River fire chief I'm sure he made that available on their website um just to make people aware and to check um to make sure that they don't have a recalled sprinkler system because it seems like a lot of places that um felt they were up to code were actually using
recalled um sprinkler systems. So, there's a few of them I believe that are listed on there. So, >> well, thank you. Um the town managers obviously heard what you said and I think um we can have some internal followup on that. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> No one else in the audience, anyone
online? Ela Gibbs. >> Uh thank you. Uh, as it relates to Route 137 and its status, I would recommend instead of just turning it over to traffic safety, they only meet once in a while. They do a lot of work. This is
timesensitive because of meeting house, kids, crosswalks, all that kind of stuff. that someone just pick up the phone and call region five of Mass DOT which takes care of the Cape and or call the state office of Mass DOT to find out what the status is and what we can and
cannot do because if we need to put in crosswalks, if we need to add sidewalks, it may be that they have some control over that. We do the daily maintenance, but I still think they're probably considered state roads for some of that kind of work. and then we get a
definitive answer. Thank you. >> Thank you for that suggestion. I I I think as sort of a threshold question for the uh traffic safety committee, that's something they should consider doing. Um anyone else? Okay. Now, we will have public comments on the
business agenda. Um and this is being retained as an agenda item even though we allow um contemporaneous uh comment on the business agenda for anyone who wants to speak now versus later uh as opposed to uh speaking twice. Um but the
business agenda includes um an update from our uh dele cadam delegate to the assembly of delegates who happens also to be the um speaker of the assembly uh Randy Potach on the county charter review and the luxury transfer fee.
Then there is a uh a request for a special one-day alcohol license from Mahi Gold. Uh there is a request from the Chattam Community Housing Partnership to revisit the vote regarding uh the decision to pause 127 Old Harbor Roads Progress. Then there
will be an a discussion of property tax and local release relief initiatives at the request of Chair Dykens, Vice Chair Dykins, uh which will include options for property tax relief and some discussion of town and community resources um for financial support for
Chattam residents. Then there is a discussion of tax relief measures uh submitted by Cadam resident and former select board member Seth Taylor. Um I intend to unless there is objection from the board um or Mr. Taylor and I know he
has none because I spoke with him beforehand to take these two items together uh and have a full discussion and I would ask that we defer any motions until the conclusion of the of that discussion. Um then there is a discussion on uh that's um clerk Smith
has requested regarding a provision in the town chat charter concerning uh the town manager administrative powers and duties and then for board discussion only uh committee appointments to the affordable housing trust fund board of trustees there is one vacancy and the town manager monthly report. So are
there any public comments on the business agenda at the present time? Seeing none we will proceed with the business agenda. So I will invite um Randy Potach um speaker of the Assembly of Delegates to make a presentation. Welcome Randy.
>> Thank you Mr. Chair and um hello everyone. So two topics for tonight. Um I'd like to start with the saga of the charter review from this year um so you can understand what might be happening um in regional government. So this is
2025 obviously and every five years the regional charter states that a review must be done. So we hired uh KP law to help us out with that and um I appointed
the following six people to work with me. Um and I want to let you know who they were because I want this to all be a story. um Susan Moran who a lot of you probably know she's a former uh state senator here and she was also the um the
chair of the Felmouth U board of select and she had been deputy speaker at the assembly in the past and then there's Michaela Wyman Colbo who's the chair of the select board in MASHP and she's on the assembly uh Wayne Samson who is on
the finance committee over in Bourne he's a former police chief and he's done charter reviews before. Uh Patrick Princy who is a former speaker of the assembly. He's also probation officer in Bonstable. Then there's the assistant town manager in Province Town and I
don't remember his name. Uh and then there's Sheila Lions who as you know is the chair of the board of commissioners and she's on the select board in Wellfleet and I was the chair of that committee. So we started back in April like I said we hired councel and it was
the feeling of the seven of us that the charter should be looked at with regard to its structure because currently there are 18 elected officials to just to put it quite bluntly argue about a $20
million budget and many of us on the charter review are also delegates and we uh I think we're an altruistic bunch because we wanted to look at making, you know, go from 18 to maybe, I don't know, five or six. And so we brought it over
to the assembly for their uh comments and we said, you know, is are people open-minded about, you know, looking at the um structure? And all I wanted was the group to pretty much just say,
"Yeah, show us something." But that did not happen. So the the ones that the assembly members that are on charter review, we were disappointed because they really weren't like open-minded and we had to say do we want to spend time,
you know, doing that and pay KP law. So then what happened was that Mark Forest, I think it was on his motion, he took another route because there's many ways to skin this cat and he did a he put forward a resolution that was uh agreed
upon by all three commissioners to say we want to petition the legislature to start an elected charter commission to look at the structure. And once that happened and they voted on that and it went up, no one else can look at
anything e with charter review really because what would happen then is that there'd be you know basically a circus on the on the um on the um for the voters because there'd be the idea do you want to elect charter review and if
so who do you want from your town and then there'd be other chatter questions that we could have raised you know through charter review. So, what we did, and I'm just going to pretty much read you from the port from the um from the report, is that we voted 6-0 because one
person wasn't there to research to recess our deliberations because we didn't want to add another ballot question or any more ballot questions to just confuse the voters. Um, and so we stopped charter review and now this is going to take place. in which a ballot
is going to look like if the legislature doesn't decide to look at abolishing the entire county. That they would say you have one person from each town running for this elected charter review plus one person from each town running
for the Assembly of Delegates. So that's 30 people or more because more than one person could vote, you know, could run for all this. So don't you have a headache already? Yeah, you ought to. So, um, we stopped this crazy thing like the cartoons would say and we're not
doing the charter review anymore and now they, you know, the voters will have an interesting ballot and u so that's where we're at with charter review. Now, the other um contentious issue is the regional
charter the regional um let me just call it by the right name because You're not supposed to call it a tax. The the luxury fee I >> That's a familiar tactic, by the way. Go ahead. >> Yeah. So, it's a luxury fee. You call it call it what you may. I'm not here to
advocate or or anything. I just want I'm just here to update you on what's happening at the at the county. Not here to get into any kind of a wrangle whatsoever. And if you don't want the CH C Chadam delegate to vote for this, then I'm sure it'll be made known. Um and the
Chattam delegate probably won't. It depends. Um but what's happening is that the Assembly of Delegates has had a number of meetings and the public has been invited. You've all been invited numerous times. Um and it's about
whether or not the regional government should petition the legislature to um put together a regional luxury fee for any homes that are over a certain amount. I don't have any details because it hasn't been drafted yet. And that's
been an issue. People like people are saying you you're asking us to opine on something that's not even drafted, but if you drafted something, they'd say that's no good. Or some people would say it was good. So instead, we've taken the approach to just gather information,
taking testimony from many, many people. And um so that's where we're really at now. And what could happen is that 51% of the assembly would be all it would take in order to petition the legislature to allow for this. Now, just
so you know, the um the legislature uh the legislative delegation has all they've come to our meetings, not every one of them, but most. And they've all been cheerleaders for this because they understand that many towns have tried to
do home petitions, but haven't been successful. Chadam being in that camp. And they feel like this would be a vehicle um in order to get that done. and then towns could opt in or out and you wouldn't have to partake. Um so
that's what has been advocated by the you know the delegation. Julian Sea came to the meeting and he just considers this a tool in the toolbox. So the other thing is that 51% of the assembly will vote on this later in the fall. And
that's not all though because then the it would also have to be accompanied by an ordinance so that there'd be money a fund to put the money in. And that has to be done by ordinance. And that's not that's much more tricky because then it
has to go over to the um the board the um the commissioners and at least two out of three of them would have to say yes. And if they didn't, then it would take 67% of the assembly in order to get that done. That is very unlikely. So
questions. >> Thank you. Any questions or comments from the board? M >> Mr. Dykins and then M. Davis. >> Yeah, thank you Dean and thank you Randy for the update. Appreciate it. I did attend the first meeting. There's a subsequent one that I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking that the the effort for the uh
the county sponsorship of the transfer fee is is duplicative rather than additive. Um we have a bunch of home rule petitions up there. We've filed it I don't know three or four times now. Could be it could be five times. I don't know. Um and town meeting has passed and
showed it support. So I I I I think another layer of government involved in crafting and trying to get this transfer fee passed again may be dup duplicative. Now I think what I've heard from our local delegation um is that they believe
they need the the political muscle somehow to to get this past the legislature. Um I'm just not convinced that that's the route we should take without knowing the detail of the route. So, I'm I'd be opining or or or commenting on a plan that I don't I
don't know enough about. I know what our home rule petition read when we filed it with the legislature and I know our delegation knows and um many other Cape Towns have filed these these transfer fee um requests or home rule petitions. I mean, and and I think I think we ought
to I think that those ought to be concluded rather than the county jumping in kind of saying, you know, hey, we think this is a good idea, too. Um maybe maybe it's all good intentions, but there's no detail whatsoever. We don't know how where the money's going to go. We know we don't know how it's going to be aortioned. We don't know if there's
going to be a fee by the county. I mean, there's so many unanswered questions that um I'm real skittish about it. I am not at all skittish as opposed to my chairman, my over here to my left about the rationale for the transfer fee itself. And my overall rational has been
all along that those funds would would fund affordable and attainable housing, ownership and rental. So, and I think it would be a very um efficient way to raise funds for affordable and attainable housing. That's it. >> And we need the money. We need an
ongoing source of money without without burdening the taxpayers of the town. Um we would be burdening a sale of expensive real estate. And the only thing >> and that and that that's that's exactly I mean I don't know what else to say. That's exact that's exactly where I land
on this one. Again without a lot of detail it's really difficult to really weigh in on this one but I just feel as chair >> is that? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So I would just I I'm just going to tell you what Julian Se says to that. I'm not saying that it's true or it's not true. It seems to me that their
rationale is that if we send up something, it's going to be like a piece of putty anyway because they're just going to change it around. You know what I mean? So even if we said this is what we'd like to do and even if you were excited about it and and encouraged the
assembly to do it, once it gets up there, you know, all bets are off. They're going to change it. >> So ju just a brief brief response. then the assembly ought to weigh in and put their political muscle behind all the home rule petitions that have already been filed and and and allowing each
town to craft its local its local, you know, option or its local piece. Yeah. So, if the county wants to get involved, put the political muscle behind the legislaturator's passage, let let the general assembly's passage of those petitions that have already been filed.
That's what I think the as that's where the assembly I think could really add a lot of value. Good to know. >> Those are my comments, Shireen. >> Um, thanks, Dean. And I wholeheartedly agree, but I'm going to add a little more to this. Um, I I do think it's it is duplicative as as Jeff said. Um, but
I'm looking at it from a unique perspective of Chadam and and the other towns that have have really worked hard to get this over the fence in their communities. And then we have other communities that aren't making those efforts but will reap the benefits of it
without that work. And from a community like Chadam and like let's say Province Town that has a high uh you know high sales rent uh you know rate of sales on their property, higher value. uh we're going to be putting a bulk of the money
into something that all of a sudden gets taken out of our community and we won't be able to uh utilize that as a unique aspect for our particular housing. Not to say that a holistic approach to housing on Cape isn't not a bad idea, but there's other ways around this is,
you know, I think um I think the maybe maybe the uh Oh, and the other thing is that, you know, you've got three people voting as the county commissioners, and I just that makes me a little nervous. you know, I' I'd rather have us decide what we're going to do with our our our luxury tax things. But um one of the
things that I see is um maybe maybe the county should be working on a Cape Wise seasonal des um uh communities designation for the entire Cape Cod and that way there'll be a lot of by right things that all the towns could benefit from. But um as as as and I think
Wellleet agreed agreed with um what I said about the our high values and and I I know that Provincetown had a conversation with Leslie um uh in uh select board member in Province Town. Same thoughts and so I I'm not in favor
of this and um and we I'm in favor of things that come out of the community rather than having something pushed on a community. And I think it holds more value for the community. So if let's just say Xtown didn't make does didn't
do it, Xtown didn't do it, you know. >> So, uh, that's where I'm landing with this. Thank you. >> And I just want you to know that I didn't put this forward. Um, and, um, I can pretty much assure you that I won't vote for it. >> I appreciate that.
>> Various reasons. >> Thank you. >> Any other comments from the board? I have some, but I >> No, I'm just in agreement that if you put some political pressure on this, what Chadam has kind of put forth makes more sense. That that's that I would appreciate and echo that support.
>> Yeah. And and again, I want I want you to know that Julian Se because I can't help but try to stick up for him a little bit. He thinks that this is going to help you get he's going he thinks that it's going to help it all in the long run. And so I can't really forget that because he's, you know, pretty much
said it numerous times. And and and if he's right and if it does pass, then I I hope that um it doesn't uh ding the town. I really hope it doesn't. >> Um I Okay. Did you have anything, Stuart?
>> I just wanted to say two things that it's no secret. I'm against the transfer tax. Um, I think I share the view of a former colleague of mine on the finance committee. If you have a communitywide need, everybody should share in it, not just certain properties. One one detail
that I would point out was the suggestion is that the threshold is going to be a million dollar home. Well, the average price in Chadam is 1.7 million. I think a flaw in our Chattam transfer tax with U petition is that the
$2 million threshold is fast becoming archaic. It should be self adjusting. Having said that, if you're going to have a transfer tax, I agree with what Shireen and Jeff were saying. I want local control over our money. I don't
want to have to go cap in hand to the county for money and I don't want that fund built up with money coming mostly from Chadam and other >> um uh destination communities. But I do I do appreciate what Senator Seir and and others in the delegation I guess our
own rep are trying to do to um deal with the housing problem. Um but I think ultimately the solution is going to come from the legislature. I think they're going to adopt a statewide local option um um statute. I think
that's ultimately what's going to happen. I don't think any individual town is ever going to get um the opportunity to have their own. I'm doubtful that the county could. Maybe they've got more legislative clout than I imagine, but those are my sentiments.
And I wouldn't I wouldn't um at all attempt to to uh try to dictate to our delegate how she should vote. Appreciate what you said, but that's you should vote your conscience, but those are my observations. >> Any delegate represents the town and the
people in it. So, um you know, that's needs to be taken into account. >> Are there any Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, that's it. >> Any public comments? Okay. >> Hearing none. So, thank you Randy and thank you for your service. Good to see you. >> Thank you for your service uh for the community as a speaker.
>> Um the next item uh is an alcohol license for special one day alcohol license from Mahi Gold October 18th, 2025 at 465 Main Street. And I understand online is Mr. Sam Johnson to present this. Um y anything you'd like
to say or we have the application before us? >> Yeah. No, just you're you're here with myself, Sam, and then our store manager, Jen. Uh, pretty straightforward. We've done it before for October Fest in years past. Um, we've we've taken into consideration kind of the safety
aspects. I think we've talked to uh the owners with Brian before by having the doors closed, uh, which is something we can easily do. U, but yeah, like I said, we're just trying to have, uh, Trillium come down and have some beers for that Saturday. >> Okay. Um, any, uh, questions or comments
from the board or a motion? I'll make the motion that we approve one day alcohol license. >> Second. >> It's been moved and seconded uh to approve this application. Uh yes, Mr. Meadows. >> Just um protocol question. I believe we
also need to consider waving the 30-day um filing. >> Yeah. The motion as should be to wave the 30-day application requirement because they got it in late and grant a special one-day alcohol license as applied. I assume that Mr. Smith, you make that motion and M. >> And it's all second. >> Seconded. So, well, thank you, Mr.
Matters, for pointing that out. Uh, we'll call the role. Uh, Miss Davis, >> hi. >> Mr. Dyken. >> Hi, >> Mr. Meadows. >> Hi. >> Um, Mr. Smith, >> I. >> The chair votes I. Thank you. >> Um, I want to propose taking something out of order. I I know the next item on
the agenda is the decision to pause 127 Old Harbor Road, and I know Carolyn, you're in. Um, the the the next two items relate to um tax relief measures. That's going to be somewhat of an extensive discussion and I know one of the principles um has a time commitment
and we started the meeting a little later than we had to. Would that be objectionable to you if Carolyn if we deferred 127 till after this next item. Thank you very much. So we will proceed to discussion on prop this is item D
discussion on property tax and local release relief initiatives that was um requested by our vice chair Jeffrey Dykins. Uh it has two parts options for property tax relief to yearround property owners exemptions abatements deferral and town and community
resources providing support and financial assistance for Chattam residents. the the item after that and I'm proposing to take these together unless there's objection from the board uh a discussion of tax relief measures by uh Cadam resident Seth Taylor. So um
with that I'm going to turn to you Mr. Dykens. will note that we do have um ample representation from our finance department Carrie Maserola, our director, our assistant um assessor um Candace Cook is here as well as the director of assessing and I see two members of the board of assessors here
as well in case there are any questions or comments. So Jeff, I'll turn it over to you. >> Thank you, Dean. Yeah, in the in the same spirit of the uh discussion surrounding the residential tax exemption, I I requested that the town um research and present um those items
for year-round residents that would provide them some relief from various incundary taxes, etc. There there are two buckets here. There's a bucket of of of relief measures or opportunities that already exist that I don't believe many
or everyone in town is aware of. So, one of the reasons why I made this request was to give it airtime. So, I'd love to have the assessors come up and Carrie come up and just one by one briefly go through them so people hear what's out there and um and because I don't think
they know. I I didn't know half of them. Then the the second piece of this is what are there any items that are listed that would need town meeting approval that we should be considering for a future warrant article next May? So, and
that that's kind of up to us and more discussion. We have some questions there. But if you just bear with me for a second. I'm not talking about, you know, an hour and a half here, but if you could just go through those items that are listed as the ones that are already a regulation here in town and give us some air time so that folks understand them and can hear about them.
Thank you, >> Candace. Yeah, I know we have um an extensive memo. If you want to just kind of touch the highlights. >> Just touch the highlights. It'd be great. Thank you very much. >> Welcome. Our assistant assessor. I think that's your title, right? >> Yes, assistant assessor. Correct. So, I'm Candace Cook and tonight what I'll
do is I'll just go over briefly the current tax relief options that we have and they're going to be all under Mass General Laws chapter 59 section five. So, it is state regulated and that the board of assessors oversee it. These are not board of assessor programs. This is
state law. So, when we go over these different clauses, so if you hear anybody talk about the clauses, it is under those 59 section five. So we do have clause 18 18A that is happens to do with the exemption as well as a deferral. Those two are for a period of
three years. The difference between the two is the exemption is taken care of. You do not have to pay that back. Whereas the deferral you do have to pay it back after that three years. Um both of them don't necessarily have an age requirement on it. Um, even though the
exemption form does say aged in affirm, the department of revenue has given the board of assessors discretion to grant it to someone if they provide that they are unable to um do something financially because of illness, unemployment or change of active service. Then you have your various
exemptions, the different clauses. I won't go into detail on them. It just depends upon what your disability rating is with the Department of Veteran Affairs. um as long as you have at least a 10% um service related disability, then you would start to get an exemption
off of your real estate taxes. And then some of them will get a um exemption off of their motor vehicle as well. So then you can go on to individuals that are not having to do with veterans. Those are your blind individuals. So they would get an exemption. This does have
age um requirements on it. You do have to be 65 years of age and determine by the commissioner blind that you were legally blind or a letter from your doctor and that has to be as of July 1st for the fiscal year when you fill out that application. Then you have your property tax deferral that is the 41A.
This is similar to the other one although there is an age associated with this being 65 and um you can defer it for as long as you want until you sell the property but you only can defer your real estate taxes. You cannot defer the two taxes which is your OPED, the other
post-employment tax as well as your CPA, the pum preservation. Those have to be paid. You cannot defer those. Now, going on to clause 41C, this is a senior exemption and it has the the the D associated with it. And that what that means is it gives you the authority. Um
it's a local option that was adopted back in 2007. So that way the income and asset limits can be increased yearly according to that consumer pricing index to reflect the cost of living. There are age um limits on this one 65 years of age and there are income and assets
limits in your packet. I won't go into detail. Now you have your clause 44B that is the community of preservation that is exempted in full as we know it's a fairly minimal tax um but you only have to be 65 years of age. There's no assets associated with that. Then you
have your senior workoff program and um they can get up to a certain amount off their taxes in exchange for working on behalf of the town and that is covered by the council on aging. They um oversee it and they provide the information to us who is eligible. And then the other two that we have
obviously is the residential exemption as we know that shifts the burden amongst the residential class. So that gives tax relief. And then of course with the tax classification hearing option that just shifts the burden amongst the residential class to that CIP, the commercial industrial personal property class. So those are just the
ones that we have available. The other ones that are in the packet are new. >> That that's very helpful to be honest with you. We have five different um opportunities for for vets that I didn't know about. I think is very important. >> There's actually more. I just did a couple. there just it depends upon their
disability rating and what they've um done in as far as the um medals that they've received and if they've had especially adoptive housing. So each veteran that comes in we sit down with them and they be to determine what the best exemption amount is for them. >> Gotcha. Great. Let's go through please
this just the list of exemptions that could be adopted by town meeting should should we so decide to do it. So so we're informed as a board and we know or have some some perhaps some some more articles for next year. So again, now we're still under mass law chapter 59 section five. This is the brave act
which is the be ready to assist veterans and extremist act. You have your v veteran clause 22g. Now these all have to be adopted at town meeting. These are not um currently in in effect. And what this does is it just gives the option that if a veteran has done some estate planning and they put their property to
a trust, they still would be eligible to be able to receive their exemption. This would take care of the ownership requirement. Then you have your 22H. This is a full exemption and it's granted to um a qualifying surviving parent or guard of an active duty who
died during the um military service or because of the military service. Then we have the heroes act and this has to do with the an act honoring and empowering and recognizing our service members and veterans. And this is going to be under
clause 22I. And this is um if you were to adopt this, it would increase the amount of that exemption, very similar to like we do our senior exemption, the 41C plus that D. And I'm going to give examples in a minute. And then you have clause 22J. This increases the veteran
exemption up to 100%. And that's at the discretion of the select board. The um Department of Revenue allows you to either go less than 100%, but you can go up to that 100%. Um, now if you were to adopt Mass General Laws chapter 59 section 5C and a half, what that
exemption allows is it an additional exemption on top of another exemption. So you couldn't adopt 22J if you wanted to adopt 5C and a half. Now to do an example, I use the town of Orleans so you have an idea of what that veteran would get. So you would go with 412 is
what a base price would be for the exemption on a veteran. you double that because that double would take in the 22J if you decided they decided to do at the town of Orleans Select Board decided to do 100%. So that comes up to $812.
They also adopted the 22I which is the cost of living adjustment and just for this year it's $24. Again, that changes yearly. So instead of that veteran getting $412, they now are receiving $836. And you would do the same calculation for the other amounts. You would just double it and add in the cola.
>> Quick question, Candace. So, is there any argument for why Chadam ought not to adopt these? >> I haven't heard. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Now, I know these just came up just this last year. >> Thank you. Are these exemptions on against the uh >> I don't think these were ever brought up
before because they are very very new. They were just enacted as of last year. >> Are these exemptions deducted against the tax bill or the valuation of the property? >> The tax bill. It's a flat fee. >> Okay. Thank you for the request. >> Thank you, Candace. And um oh and then there's a couple more.
>> Yep. >> So now you do have again we're still under the mass general laws chapter 59 section 5. This has to do with seniors 41C and a half. So if this was to be adopted it would replace our current 41c exemption and this is treated very
similar to the residential exemption. Um the only difference is is the uh department of revenue only allows the select board to go up to 20%. So you can again deduct that percentage that you want and it's on 20% on the average of the residential class. Very similar, but
there's an age that's associated with this as well as income. And the income does have to be um tied to the circuit breaker. Although you do not have to require that the person that is applying for it, they don't have to show that they filed the schedule CB on their
personal tax returns. Important point on this one I believe is that you can also get the RTE and >> correct you can get both the residential exemption as well as the 41C have the only thing we just have to take in consideration is that their tax liability does not drop below the 10%. We'd have to take that into
consideration. >> Yeah, there's some nuances here that we need to know about. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. >> And then there's the means tested senior exemption. There's a few towns. This is actually where you would adopt spe special legislation to be enacted into
legislation. There's a couple towns that have it. Andover, Hopkinington, conquered, Shootsbury, Westboro, and Reading. And what they did is they adopted this special legislation under the Municipal Empowerment Act. And what this does is it's a senior means tested that the select board would determine a
50% actually on a flat fee, you would determine what you'd want the amount to be on. And again it's based on you know the seniors as well as the income and assets whereas the 41C and a half does not have assets related to it whereas the senior means does and I'll use the
example of conquered what they decided to do is they use the 65 years of age the resident requirement was 10 years and their income had to meet that state circuit breaker limits which they had single was 72 head of household was 91
and joint was 109 and then the ad assets maximum imum had to be no no more than 275 and that excludes the residents because you don't include the resident value. >> This this one would take a little bit more work by the select board. >> Yes. And I did reach out to town council because I wanted to clarify some of this
information. They said that if you did want to adopt it, they'd be ready to assist with that language. >> Okay. All righty. >> And then um just going on to the senior workoff program under Mass General Laws chapter 59 section 5K. This just gives
the option, we already have it enacted, but it gives you the option that it can be increased for the seniors. It could be increased up to 1500. Currently, we have it at 500. And then if you were to adopted the 5N, which specifically relates only to veterans, then they could be up to 2,000 would be exemption.
And lastly on um here is the housing exemption. um that has to do with um if a landlord were to rent out their property, as long as they do it at an affordable rate, they would receive the discount as long as the other you pass it on. And the town of Haritch, they
actually decided to adopt that at their town meeting. And they decided to use um the 125% of the federal housing and urban development to determine their income criteria. And they decided to use 108,598 for their salary. and they decided that
the rent could not exceed 1,3739. So those are all the ones that we have. >> Oh, and just one side note, all of our assessor training material has been updated from the Massachusetts Assessors Association. So to to reflect the reimbursement amounts um for all these
new ones that have come forward because as we know this is not revenue neutral like with the residential exemption. If you were to adopt the 41c and a half or if you increase any of these, this will come out of our overlay account and we'll get some state funding. Just to be clear on that one,
>> what is the affordable housing property tax exemption that's referred to? >> So, what that is is that has to do with if a renter if someone were to rent out their property, they would get a um discount so long as they rent it out at an affordable rate. >> Okay.
And I'm sorry. No, I it's just likely I I'll be not this evening, but I'm going to be forwarding, you know. >> Yeah, we we're going to discuss that. I'm going to ask that we defer any motions until we complete the full discussion. >> Okay. >> Or both items tonight. Um uh the fiscal impact. There's a paragraph in there.
You talk about the overlay. I wanted to mention to the board and the public that I did ask the town manager when we have our budget summit that there be a presentation on what the overlay is because it's a rather arcane topic. Yes. >> I think everybody should know a little bit more about it. including myself. Um,
thank you. Did you have anything more on this one? >> That's all I had. Thank you, >> Jeeoff. This is >> No, I'm good. >> There was a second item in the packet. I don't think we need to go through it unless someone is interested. Uh, this was this this had to do with town and community resources providing support
and financial assistance for Chadam residents. And there was there is a memo from the town manager and the director of community services Leo Lacrosse um discussing various town operated and assisted programs like the Dr. Seldon family support program, the child care
voucher program, free transportation to medical appointments, grocery delivery and prescription delivery of for older adults through the council on aging center for active living. Healthy Meals in Motion run by the family pantry of Cape Cod, the town of Chadam's senior
tax workoff program which was mentioned, fuel assistance, uh various community partners and programs like um a a baby center homeless prevention council, lower lower Cape outreach council, society of St. Vincent to Paul Cape and Islands District, Cha Chattam Ecumenical
Council to prevent homelessness and I think that completes the list. So >> yeah, any comments? just had a question about funding on one of them because I I I know um I think I know the answer, but uh you're listing fuel assistance as a as um an option and CFL runs it. Who
funds the fuel assistant fund? Do you know >> it's a state program? >> It's a state program. Okay. And it's I think it's um >> grant money. I think >> it's administered through elder services. >> Got it. Oh, so it's all elder services stuff. Okay. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions on on Jeff's piece
of this discussion? Any other comments from the finance director or the assessing department? Okay. So, I'm going to turn to um Mr. Taylor's presentation. Seth, if you want to take and we did receive some materials from
you as I as I read them, I think there were two very specific proposals that you were putting forward. >> Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Um, first thing that you've got a number of handouts. Um, there was a a tag along that's in
your packet that doesn't uh doesn't belong there. It should start at the top says motion and it talks about shallot town adopt provisions of Massachusetts general law 59 section 5 clause D. That there's no point that that we already
do. That's something from last May that somehow tagged its way into the >> the uh stuff I sent along. So, you can push that to one side. Um I have uh three items that are in the package that
uh involve town meeting that um two of which are already prepared in a uh petition uh article format uh for submission to the warrant via petition this coming
May. Um, and then there's a third one that would be submitted via petition to town meeting as well that you don't have a form for um that I will talk about the three of them independently.
And the fourth thing in your packet um is what Candace just talked to you about, which is MGL chapter 59 clause 41 C and a half. Um, I won't, uh, go into that since she generally referenced it.
But, um, if you take the time to look below the paragraph that says what it does, um, the thing that's important about, uh, section 5, clause 41 C and a half, this has to go on the ballot. This isn't a town meeting thing. So, um, this
would require your action to place it on the ballot. um it couldn't get there unless we did a citizens petition of 200 signatures, which is what's required for petitions to put it on the ballot. So, uh think about that and and I won't go
into that cuz Candace talked about it, but if it's one of the things you think you'd like to do, uh just recognize that it is a ballot item and it can only get there either by uh citizens petition 200 signatures or it gets done because u select board places it on the ballot.
Seth, could I interrupt? >> Yes, certainly. Absolutely. And and I hope anybody will. >> This is so this 41C and a half um what this would do >> as I'm reading your your draft. Um >> yeah, four four four bullet points there.
>> Yeah, it would um the amount of the exemp exemption would be based on 20% of the average assessed value of all class one properties in town. U the qualifying age would be reduced from 70 years to 65 years. The residency requirement would
be reduced from 10 years to five years and the exemption would use household income rather than single applicant the single applicant basis. Is that the correct summary? >> Those are the those are the big items that that take it. I also think if uh and I'm going back in memory now because
it's been a while since I I spent all all of this research, but I think that um one of the things to be careful about is when you look to adopt uh 595 41C and a half, it may very well be that there's language in that that once you
do that, it makes all the other stuff in in uh clause 41 go away, right? Am I correct on that, Candace? >> Yes. So I my memory serves me correctly. If you decide that this is like the silver bullet and you just want a one
thing, >> this is a one thing because it makes all the other stuff in 41 go away. >> Um so that's really important to remember and those bulleted points make it easier for you guys to understand where you want to put it in your quiver
of things uh to work. And and now if we can, I'd look at the the three things um two of which you have um already before you that are set up in uh citizen petition uh warrant article format. And
I'll speak to those second and third. Um, what I will speak to first is um an item that I believe can go I know it can go to to the to the warrant for consideration. Um, but it's almost a
specialty item. Um, and it it's peculiar to maybe one or two people in town. Um but it's pretty serious as to the effect
it would have. We have at least one um lowincome senior in town that has both tax deferred uh tax liability to the town, meaning a tax deferred lean on their property
under title 59 tax deferral. and the same individual has a tax lean under tax title law which is in chapter 60. Both of those leans are registered separately with the Bonstville County
Registry of Deeds. So in essence, we have one person who's a senior that has two separate leans on their house. One because she fell behind in tax title and the other because
late in the process of understanding learned about tax deferral which if that taxpayer had known about it probably never would have had half the tax title problem. And the tax title problem is huge because the interest
rate on that is 16%. And the interest rate on the tax deferral accounts is 8%. And where all money that goes to pay back either of these accounts, either the tax title account or the tax deferral account, every money, every
dollar you put in goes to interest first. >> Never going to catch up. >> And so once you get behind at 16%, you never catch up. >> Never going to catch up. at 8% you have a hell of a time catching up, right? So
the first thing that could be done to solve this, but again it's kind of like a boutique item is I believe that we could petition the legislature for a special act of the legislature because under our home rule charter that the
legislature is much more responsive to us asking for special things that only apply to our town. I I believe that they would be receptive to us asking for a special act of the legislature that would allow us to consolidate
tax title accounts and a tax deferral account for people that qualify, meaning seniors, low-income seniors who would qualify for tax deferral account. Because if you could accumulate those into a single outstanding
uh debt to the town under the rules of tax deferral, you'd have a lot easier chance of working that off than under tax title. Because although last November they
changed the laws on tax title, guess what they didn't do? They did not change the amount of interest being paid on current balances. So although now the interest rate on tax
title accounts from newly established tax title accounts going forward will be 88 8%. any balances that existed prior to November of last year are still
ticking at 16% with that interest acrewing daily. So this is like they the legislature and the governor really wanted to try to fix this but this stuff is complicated enough that somewhere along the line they tripped and fell down and didn't even understand that
they were leaving it. You know it balances at 16%. So that that's a thought that I believe we could go with a special act of the legislature in order to resolve that one or two taxpayer problem. >> So this item is is not one that you had
submitted something. >> No, it is not. >> Okay. But I I I hadn't written it. Um I I've as you know, Mr. chairman and other members of the board. I've spent a lot of time just very carefully combing through um both chapter 59 and chapter
60 to try to get some resolution on on how we help people. >> No, I just went wanted to clarify what was in the packet. This is one of the things that came to me late on how do you how do you fix these you know one I'm looking on the broad side of things about how to fix the big problem and
then narrowing down to to smaller incidents where is there a solution for this individual problem and I think on this we're only talking about one account I think yeah uh Candace says we have one account where there's a person
that has both tax deferral and tax title accounts. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. So it it would be a fix for one person. >> Um but now let's go to the the two items that I have um that that you will see that are formatted in the uh citizens
petition uh format with the blocks for the signatures and u for the sake of the people at home because they don't have copies of this stuff. Um I'll read them because they're very brief. Um and I'm presenting them as I would if I were at town meeting. Uh motion
pursuant to the local option authority granted to towns under Massachusetts general law chapter 59 section 5 clause 41a paragraph 3 parns 1 I move that the town shall adopt and assess an interest rate of 510 of 1% parenthetically 0.5%
against all outstanding tax deferred balances where such tax monies that are due to the town result from the senior citizen property tax deferral provisions. of Massachusetts general law chapter 5. The laws in chapter um 59
section 5 allow we don't have to take the 8% that's statutory. We are allowed to adjust the interest rate on tax deferred accounts down. And when I first wrote this I said well hell let's just make it zero. But the language of the
statute says you can reduce it. It doesn't say you can eliminate it. And so I dropped it down to 510 of 1%. >> Okay. >> Because that that fits the wording of the statute which says you can the town has the authority to reduce it and that
is a is a matter before town meeting. That's why I've set it up as a petition article. >> This is for someone that is in a tax deferred program. >> In the tax deferral program. Correct. Right. >> Very good. Got that one. >> All right. And the next one. Um this this reads a little more in a little
more complicated fashion, but that's only because somewhere along the line um it appears that and I I don't wish to put words in town council's mouth, but it it I became aware of the fact that it seemed that if
we had a bylaw that was adopting um a a statute that that didn't get modified if the statute was amended. And to me, that
seemed bizarre. Like if if Chadam chooses to adopt Massachusetts General Law 000 and then the legislature changes that law through amendment to say something else, that that somehow or another we
have to go back and amend our bylaw to catch up to the amendment of the state. Now, that doesn't make sense to me, but somehow that filtered into my brain as an opinion of council. Um, and and I'll leave it at that, but that's why the
language in this next one is a little convoluted and and I'll apologize for that, but I think it does read and make sense. Motion. I move that the town vote to adopt or as may be appropriate amend local bylaw incorporating therein the
provisions of Massachusetts general law chapter chapter 60 section 62A as amended and in keeping with the amended statute as it exists or as it may be amended in the future. The town shall
allow any property taxpayer who is in tax title to enter into a payment agreement with the town whereby the agreement shall include a term for the repayment in full not to exceed 10 years
with the initial minimum payment of 10% of the outstanding balance of the tax title lean less interest further and in keeping with the authority grant granted to municipalities by the Commonwealth under chapter 60 as amended. The town
shall wave interest on outstanding tax title accounts for all taxpayers who enter into and maintain an active payment agreement with the town as developed by and with the treasurer collector. And that taxpayers who are
party to any such agreement shall continue to comply with the terms of the agreement as originally entered into between the taxpayer and the town or as said agreement may be adjusted by joint and mutual consent of the treasurer
collector and the responsible taxpayer at a later date. If you guys um Corey and Dean and Jeff, you guys were on the board when the Eldridge property thing came up and we wound up adopting at that time the
fiveyear payoff thing. >> This changed in November of last year to turn it into 10 years and the language that's here. But then all
of a sudden the and allowed us to wave the interest if there was an agreement in place. But then it seemed that the legislature found that there were problems with that. And so they told the the collector to hold on, don't get
nervous. Things are still in flux and changing. Um and we're not sure what they're going to turn into, but don't don't get going crazy on this stuff. And so in the instance of another person that's
in tax title account, the collector instead of going with the 10 years 10% kicked into our bylaw which was 5 years and 5% to avoid
a complication that council felt existed because of the uncertainties of what the legislature was doing. But this as I have written it is directly as the law reads resulting from what the
legislature did last November. And so >> the way I read it, this is perfectly legal for us to do. And and supposedly the legislature is in the process of trying to make some fix and do is saying, "Hold on, wait, wait. There's
something going to happen." But by my reading of the way this um piece of statute changed last November with the 10% and 10 years instead of 20% in 5 years that
this is perfectly agreeable to the statute as it's written right now and I'd rather move quicker than the legislature and do may move if it is legal and if it helps our our uh taxpayers. uh quicker than you know the
state can move on anything. So So that's the whole point of this one. >> So to distill this down, so this takes a property that's in tax title, >> correct? >> And that's a that's a that's a property where the town has actually gone to court. >> No, didn't go to court, just filed a lean.
>> Filed a lean. Okay. >> Yep. There's no court action. >> And this says um the um town could enter into an agreement not to exceed 10 years for repayment. initial payment of 10% of the balance with no interest. That's
what this >> and and wave the interest does. >> Yep. Because the statute as it went through last November provides us to to wave interest. What what would this do with the bylaw that you were referring to that we did on the Stony Hill Road, the H Eldridge property where the five
years and five >> Well, this is an expansion of what was available by statute back then, which was five years >> and 20% >> 20% down. You only get five years to pay it all off. If you don't, tough luck. You go back to the beginning and and you
get no get out of jail free card. >> Okay. This expands expands the period to pay it off and reduces the upfront payment from 20% to 10%. And it also had the provision that allows us as a municipality to wave interest. >> Okay.
>> All right. So, in the instance of the taxpayer that I know, you have a taxpayer that's paying $7,700 a year when that taxpayers's property is actually around $3,400 and will never and and the balance of
monies owed to the town continues to grow at a rate that in 10 years it'll be close to, you know, $150,000 of money owed while paying twice as much annually uh that the standard property tax would
be simply because you're staring at the consequences of a incredibly ownorous 16% interest rate, which is no one's fault in the fact that that's the way it was written into law and nobody paid a lot of attention on, you know, at a level where we could do something about
it. And these uh petition articles are by my reading and going through the statutes carefully and as they've been um changed since uh last November, I believe that we could move forward with these next May and that they would have uh the benefits that you can read uh
fairly plainly in there. Now, these are things that could be put on the warrant by the board of select. >> Okay. Does this complete complete your list of >> this completes my list? Yep. >> Okay. Does anyone have any questions for Seth or comments? Uh Jeff? >> Yeah. How how many pieces of property do
we have in tax title now in town? >> 21 tax title. Uh last I knew there were 21. Um but cautiously a couple of those are are are second homes.
So it's not that everybody that is >> So that was my >> that is thumbing their nose. I mean there are some people that truly are in trouble and there are other people that are just kind of like yeah I'll get to it when I get to it or so what >> so I don't know individual basis >> again to why would we want to wave
interest for those folks >> car I don't think you can >> hi Carrie Maserel finance director um I can get you the exact amount of people that we have in tax title for you um >> I don't have that number I know there was a couple that were unknown known
parcels as well. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There are there are unknown parcels. Yep. Gotcha. >> Um, >> go ahead, Chef, if you had another. >> No, I I I just have kind of a summary when we're ready for it. I just >> Cy, >> just a brief comment. I mean, like I say, just
using um the two or if there are smaller amount or secondary homes, can language be crafted that it it only applies to a primary residence and would that have any standing of legality? I mean, I I mean, I'm just throwing it out there, but >> I should think that we could submit anything we want to the legislature and
if we can get them to enact it, unless there's an equal protection issue that would be raised by Senate or House Council, I suppose, something like that. I just had uh unless Stuart, did you have something? >> No. Um well, yeah, I guess I do. Thank
you for putting all this together, Seth. It's a lot of work. Um, I'm gonna have to read this maybe three times, but um, what why was there any rationale that you saw in your research that they came up with
16%? That seems like almost criminal. >> 16%. >> No, that's historic. That's been around for a long time. >> Just it's just, >> you know, that's like usury fees. I mean, that's >> that's like leg breaker stuff. That's like the, you know, payday loan stuff. I mean, you know, when
you know, I said this before, you're laughing, Jeff, but shame on me. Shame on all of us, right? >> Sh I mean, how can that happen? How can we in good faith allow 16% to pile up on somebody who's already
demonstrated not that there's scoff laws, but that they simply can't meet their tax bill. >> Yeah. when we have been looking at our assessed value balloon beyond all proportions. Now, it's great to have a low mill rate, but what the hell does a
mill rate mean if you've your property's gone from being >> $300,000 in value to being a million8, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. The >> And what do we want to do? Do we want to chase, you know, historic families out of their home? >> No. so that we can uh take control of it
or that we can let the developer take control out of it, knock it down and turn another McMansion into it while we're sitting around paying money to try to get um affordable housing. >> Yeah. >> When when the people who were already living here, we just like to be able to keep them in their home. And and I don't
you know, we're talking about people that are trying to get by and that are happy to pay their taxes and they'll try to do it. I mean, you got somebody paying $7,700 when their tax bill is worth $3,200. I'd call it a person that really wants to do the right thing, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's kind of
astounding. Um I'm glad you put this all together. Now, I I'll argue the other to the other extreme. Um why zero? >> Half or why? Why? I'm sorry. Why half a percent? Is is that a >> Oh, no. That's a different one. That's a
tax deferral. It doesn't have to be. I mean, we're allowed when you read the statute, it says the town can reduce the interest to any to any amount. >> Right. >> Right. But it uses the word reduce. It doesn't say you can eliminate it. I just
my attitude is if you got people that are trying like hell to pay it off, >> why should we be >> Why should we? It's an accounting thing when you think about it. Right. It isn't like we're losing money, >> right? >> Right. It's numbers from one side of a ledger to the other side of a ledger
because it's not like it's money that is really real money. >> Right. Right. Well, no, thank you and good work. Thank you. >> Um, any other questions from the board? I do want to note that um the assessors, the assessing department and the finance, it's the finance director put
together um an analysis of Mr. Me Mr. Matters, Mr. Taylor's proposals. uh other than the ballot question item that I referred to. Um if anyone has any questions, I guess I had a question. Carrie, um with respect to the the point
that um um Stuart just brought up about the interest rate, I think you looked at some other towns that have done this. They're sort of bringing it down from eight or whatever to what 3 or 4%. >> Yep. Roughly 4% is what I've seen. And I
think I have found and no No towns on Cape. They're all off Cape. >> No towns on Cape have done this at all. >> I haven't seen any. Um, one, two, three, four, five, six towns and there are roughly around four to four and a half%. >> Do you have a list of the names of those
towns? I'm curious. >> Yeah. Uh, City of Newton, um, Wilburn, Ipsswitch, Belmont, Lexington, and Hanover. >> No poor towns there. You got to excuse me, but 4% interest. I mean, the
treasuries aren't, you know, aren't returning that. >> Yeah. >> You know, are we in the business of trying to make money off the poorest people in town? >> Is is that what we should be doing? >> I I I understand that. the the um the other question I had um I guess for you
Carrie is of so put aside the ballot question one um the tax title tax deferral consolidation that doesn't involve any um impact on the taxpayers really they're in g the other taxpayers
not the ones that we're trying to help >> right >> um the interest rate that doesn't have any impact whatever whether it's zero or 8% does that have any impact. It just means we get less money into the town, >> right? For the tax deferral, the 41A, right? We would just get less money when the deferral was paid off.
>> Okay. >> When that money comes in, where does it go? When to what account does it go? >> It goes to um the deferral account. So there's actually it comes So on the accounting side, we have a commitment for real estate and then when somebody
defers their taxes, they go into a different commitment called the deferred taxes. So we have parcels sitting there whoever has deferred taxes. So then when we get the money from the deferred it will go into that account. It's just general fund. >> Does that money you that money goes into the general fund? Can it be used to fund
operations or capital expenses of ultimately? >> Yeah it would it would go once we get the money it would basically fund that year's operating budget. Okay. And just like anything else what's ever left over would close to to the fun. And I would assume the same answer applies to w the
waving interest provision. That just means we get less money. >> Correct. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And the issue in in uh Bonsible County registry of deeds as an attorney, you'll recognize it. In essence, there's a Liz pendance. >> Yeah. >> That's that's filed and and the town's
done that. >> Yeah. Um Okay. Are there any other comments that the assessors or the finance department wants to make? Seth and >> yeah, I'm running up against the clock, so if somebody has something for me, I
would be here to answer. >> I was just gonna ask Yeah. anything from Mr. Taylor. >> I just have one comment. >> So, some of these um the one that he's talks about, the tax title one, we just received on Friday. So, if you do um
have an interest in this and you want somebody to put something together, you know, Sharon would have to reach out to town council. And >> yeah, I I we'll have some conversation about what we want to do with all of this. My kind of hunch is that we might want to refer this to the town manager
and her staff to come up with a kind of a menu to bring back to us and then we can, you know, take from the proposals that Mr. Jail have put put together and the ones we might select and pick from these. We could identify them tonight and then and then we could take votes on
them at some point if we want to put them on. >> That's a fine course of action and I'm ready. >> Uh are there any public comments either in Yes, Brian? >> You guys, excuse me, Mr. Chairman. You guys all set with me? >> I think we are. Seth, >> thank you very much. I appreciate your attention tonight and I appreciate you
getting this on the uh the agenda, Mr. chairman and members of the board. Um I I think this is one of those times when um I'm proud to be looking at you guys as uh having this level of interest in actually working towards something that
is hugely beneficial for the people that are currently living in town. >> Thank you. Thank you for putting this together, Mr. Taylor. Thank you. Thanks, Seth. >> Brian, please. >> All right. For the record, Brian Phillips, 374 Orleans Road. Thank you. Um the
giving a tax exemption to renting out to people year round seems like a really smart idea um and using our infrastructure and creating affordable housing. And then I guess the other thing I'd like for you guys to take in consideration possibly is which I haven't seen it used a lot but it was
used to you know like the summer rentals they'd rent out for the three months the summertime but then they'd give like a discount rate for the other nine months maybe if something uh along those lines could be um you know given a t a small attack exemption to that too because that was like a pretty valuable source
of affordable you know housing um for you know I had a lot of friends in school that did it and then also like younger you So younger people can afford to live at the discounted rate over the nine months. Uh thanks. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other comments? All right. I'll bring it back to the board. >> What do you want to do, Mr.
>> Chairman? Yeah. So I would like to suggest uh in summary that uh we ask the town manager and the finance department and the department of assessors assessing department to come back with us for recommend. Well, I I I have the ones I would like to recommend and I
need some some thoughtful buyin by the board as well. under the brave act. I'm not sure I know how many actual veterans this is going to affect in the town, but why wouldn't we do this to adopt the veteran clause 22G and 22H? I mean, why why not? It could could be a veteran at
some point that that would benefit in Chadam from both those clauses being adopted. We don't they aren't currently part of our makeup. Then under the Hero Act as well, um clause I would adopt similar to Orleans both clauses 22 I and
22J. Um I would please ask to get a summary uh kind of describing um adopting those clauses and um what the a motion might be and then you know the warrant article you know stemming there from um the uh I would like to adopt
senior senior clause 41 C and a half as has been mentioned replacing clause 41. I think that's just as as Mr. Taylor said was a ballot box. We don't do we have to go to town meeting with that one as well. Okay. So okay abs. Okay. >> Has to go to both. >> Yeah.
>> Both town meeting and the ballot. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I thought it was as well. And then um I think we ought to be able to offer the means tested senior exemption. Again, I'm I'm just casting my net our net widely so that we can
capture or offer our year-round residents as many opportunities to save as they possibly can. Whether it affects that many people or not, I don't know. But I think it's important to have it in our in our quilt. And then um the housing IGR information guideline um I
would like to hear more about that and some more detail about that um to know whether or not we should be recommending it to to the town um for passing. Um it's by a vote of the select board subject to our charter. I just don't know what our standing is. It says following acceptance the select board
may establish the parameters. Uh I just I need I want want to know more about it. >> Okay. And then in terms of Mr. Taylor's presentation, I I don't mind trying to petition the legislature for a special uh act um for those folks that are in tax title and and also deferring. I I
think it may well receive a warm ear in the general assembly via our delegation. So I wouldn't mind crafting something there that that gets it there under a piece of special legislation. And um I think lowering the interest rate uh on tax deferral accounts is kind of a no-brainer. Um was 16, now eight. We
could get that to four and in my mind easily or even three. >> That's the tax deferral um interest rate. And then I would also like to adopt the tax title 10 years 10% 10% down uh 10 years um and and no interest.
Although I would like to know those properties that will will be giving up some interest that perhaps is warranted. I don't want to do a blanket no interest. If there's scoff laws out there, I don't want them to get away with being scoffs. So those are my notions and I think I just want to say
also that I think really appreciate the effort here. This is a lot of work. You guys know this stuff inside and out. It's fairly arcane. Um, but I think it's very important that we get out there what's available to all the taxpayers, our year- round taxpayers, most notably in the town of Chadam. So, I really do
appreciate your efforts and I look forward to hearing back. >> So, what I'm hearing is that we refer to the town manager and her staff this menu of I'm going to say were 10 or 12 items here. Okay. >> Which included all of Mr. materialist
items >> to develop a report back to us with which fleshes out each of them a little more in in greater detail what the implications are. They're going to have to talk with town council before it comes to us to make sure we know how to
to implement this. Uh and then we would we would uh vote on them. We would vote on whether we ones we want to put on the there's one that would go on the ballot >> uh and and others that go on warrant and we could decide on the interest rate if
we want to do that whether it's 4% or something else. So we wouldn't take any votes tonight. That would be my my >> No, we got more work to do but I think it's I think it's >> but I think we're more focused. >> Very good. >> Shireen >> and I'd like to hear more about our senior workoff abatement program. How
many people are utilizing that? And um >> it's really good. >> I think it's really important so that we can consider that increase which also the veteran workoff increase as well as the legally blind. >> Is that a separate item? I didn't >> I don't think it has to be. >> No, I I just didn't know whether it was listed separately if
>> there's four and five in the um >> what we already have in the book. >> Yeah, what we already here make note of that >> more because I think um >> Okay, >> good. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. I think we we're done with this uh particular these two items. Thank you very much.
All right. Now, we're back to the um regular agenda and I will re return to item C to revisit the vote regarding the decision to pause 127 Old Harbor Roads Progress Community Housing Partnership Committee who made a recommendation to
us. And I'll call on Carolyn Mlullen. And I know we have our housing and sustainability director present as well. Thank you all. Um, >> so Caroline, sorry. Evening folks. Carolyn McCullen, chair of the community housing partnership.
Uh, thank you for reconsidering this um, uh, vote here. Obviously, um I really want 127 to move forward. I know there was some hesitancy to to do this at this time, but I really think having already uh done the test fits, we should move
ahead and do the design guidelines um and have them we've already invested in the the consultant to do that work. They're they're ready to go get that in front of us and then you can make a decision whether or not you want to move forward with the RFP. I know there's some concerns from the public and
they're trying to relitigate whether or not we should be building there or not, but town meeting has voted. This is what it's supposed to make them uh give them an opportunity to look at something that we could build there. If they don't like it, they're
not going to vote to finance it. So that's the opportunity for the public to speak again on this development because ultimately we have to go to them with whatever we end up with and get them to vote for the financing. So we're not doing anything behind the scenes here,
but it's our obligation to work on and develop the best possible scenario and to put forward a plan that the public can look at and consider for housing, which is what they voted for in 2023. So Caroline, just refresh my
recollection on this. The um propos the the the conceptual um test fits that we looked at were they all um were they exclusively attainable? Was that was that the sense that this whole that 127 would only be attainable
housing or were we talking about because this goes to the source of funding. >> It's got to be a 40B. So some of it will have to be affordable any but it's leaning into attainable but depends about how many units we do. So I guess I think we were talking about one
plausible scenario had a us subdividing the lot and making four you'd have uh two uh one unit would be affordable and the other three could be attainable. So it would depend upon the ratio but that's standard 40b but the the goal is to build more attainable than affordable
on the on this lot as with stepping stones. In order to um fund the attainable piece, we have to go to town meeting because we need town meetings approval to spend the money from um the attainable housing account. Do we have that? Yeah, we have a separate account for that.
>> We do have a separate account. Yes. >> Right. So, we'd have to go to town meeting if town meeting didn't like the project. They could >> that's the same with stepping stone that they're going to have they're going to get to vote again. So, it's our obligation to to come up with the best possible plan. Come up with something that they like or they don't like, but they're going to get to chime in. and we're not going to be able to do
anything that they don't like. But we have an obligation in this moment. We can't relitigate the fact whether we're going to build there or not. That's already been decided that this is supposed to be for housing. So now it's our our job to try to develop the best plan. >> Okay. Any questions or comments from
board members? Corey, >> just more forformational purposes. Um, you know, there's no secret I have a certain position, had certain positions on this project and and you know, and I I definitely definitely feel very um adamant that town meeting, you know,
should be able to weigh in the process and what have you. Um, but I know philosophically I had some concerns about the the the deed and the will of the the the donor and that has been brought up from a legal perspective.
Have we to date kind of got a analysis or response to that legal position? Because I mean I I completely understand what you're saying, but I don't know if it's just more appropriate for us um kind of from our town council being like, does this have
any merit and what does it do to the process? You know, is that is that an advisable step right now is what I'm throwing out there. >> Let me say this because I was going to speak to that. Um, and I I start from the premise I was with you, Corey. I
didn't support putting housing on this property. I went to town meeting once. Town meeting agreed with that position, but then it went came back to town meeting and town meeting voted to direct the town to put housing there. And I
accept that. And I think that the only way that could be changed is is if town meeting decided to change its mind about it. and someone would have to you know being a petition article I guess to go to town meeting to change that but
that's the direction we have um and we spent a couple of meetings and this is before Stuart got on the board um going through test fits and they were revised and some of them looked kind of attractive to me anyway um and um that
then um the suggestion was made um most recently that we pause this because there was some concern that Stepping Stones Road, which had been handled at the affordable housing trust, was moving more quickly toward an RFP and we should
focus on that. Um, and the board voted two to three effectively not to proceed with the design work that was being proposed and and would cost $15,000. And
I was one of the three. I think Stuart and Corey were were among the three and Jeff and Shireen were the two. Um and I I I um then um we we received these two letters and I intentionally had them put
them in the packet from two law firms. It's the same letter. Two different law firms. One of which I'm I know by name, but I don't know anything about them. But to address Corey's question, um, I'm a little concerned about the letter from
Michael Ford because, you know, I I've seen Mr. Ford come before us. I've seen him before other bodies of the town. He's a serious attorney. And he says, Chad, this is quote from the letter,
Chadam has a legal and ethical obligation to honor restricted gifts and to respect any donor's intent. Okay. Because of this obligation, the town must comply with the donor's restrictions to maintain trust and encourage future contributions. Now, I don't know whether that second
sentence means they must comply, the town must comply because we sort of have this broad obligation to honor restricted gifts generically, or whether he has some legal theory
that I'm not aware of. And you may recall when we discussed this a couple of years ago, Mr. Costello was our counsel and he advised us he he advised us he opined that the restrictions had expired under
state law and I pressed him very vigorously on that. uh and I pointed out a section or two of the general laws and his response was that they were either not applicable or one of them was not applicable and that the restrictions in
his opinion were had expired and I I accepted that and I guess I still accept that. But I am troubled about this when I have an attorney who I think has some credibility who says something here and I'd like to know what his legal theory is. He's he's representing um um
Abutters or clients who are neighbors in Abutters. I I would like this is just my idea. I would like our council to reach out to him and ask him what's your theory is and and and then ask our council to advise us as to whether
there's any merit to it in his opinion or whether you know Mr. Costello's opinion is correct. I'm not saying this because I want to put an obstacle in front of this. I really am not. I was trying to stop it two years ago because I really thought there was a problem with it. Um, and I don't know that there
there is or isn't a problem, but I you know, if this has been a letter from somebody that, you know, out of town that I don't really know um is credible, I might feel differently, but that's my I don't want
to buy a lawsuit on this. Um, and I don't think it would take very much time. I do have a concern about the 15,000, you know, is is the suggestion the suggestion a month ago was let's spend the 15,000,
buy the design work, and then put it in the drawer until we're ready to go forward with an RFP. That's what we were being not from you, but that's this is what was being suggested. I think that's what I heard. Maybe I heard it wrong. So, I thought, well, why spend 15,000 when we don't know what we're going to
do with it? Um, going forward. Um, anyway, I I hope that answers your question, Jeff. >> We we relied upon an opinion of our town council at the time that the restriction had expired. We went to town meeting and
received a vote to use that property for housing and to revisit the issue when our town council is already opined upon it and is I think uh a waste of time. We went to town meeting with an opinion of our
town council that we took his opinion on every single thing every other issue. Why why single this one out for a test or a revisitation? I I I I don't get it. I I think it's subtrafuge. I think it's this property has been so controversial
from its beginning. Um but we we we as a select board as a select board, we relied on our town council and he had good he had good he had good argument. So I don't I'm not as fearful uh you know I think it's just I think it's not
good management to continue down a road where we were considering developing that property and get almost to the point where we at least get some design guidelines for very low low money or not low money 15 grand is a lot of money but for a modicum of incremental expense to
get to the point where we can say hey look what do we say how does this look how does this really you guys spent I wasn't at the meeting. I watched the rerun. I was on vacation. But you guys spent an entire meeting going through the different scenarios. Three different
scenarios. I mean, it you guys did a lot of work. Great work, I thought. And to and then to to do all that work and then say, "Oh, no. We shouldn't do it. We can't go any further now. We got to pause." No, I don't I don't think it's correct. and and
you know the need what gets lost in all this falderall and noise is the need for housing in this town. The need for yearround affordable and attainable housing in this town. That's what get gets lost. That that's what we want to do. That's what we've made a commitment
to do as a board for a long time, guys. And and and in fact, you know, I look in the mirror myself. I've been on the board. This is my fifth term. What have I done about housing? I nothing till now really nothing substantive till now 10 units and seven units in 10 years or
whatever our track record as a board's been abysmal I've been a member of the board so some of it's on me and so but now we're at the point we're at at the precipice of of opportunity Penrose 127 to say pause 127 we're scared about
a lawsuit I just think is the wrong move and I'm totally against it >> let me just ask you let me ask you Jeff so if we spend the $15 15,000 and get these design guidelines done. Now, what happens next? Because the suggestion last time was still posit. That's what
that's what was presented. Did I misunderstand? >> I'm going to listen to Shireen for a second because I know what I >> It wasn't my intention to blow this project up. It wasn't my intention for that vote to be taken. >> And so, I felt um it was good intention to let's just jump over 127 and get
something in the queue that we know was ready to go. They're both meritable um properties with meritable projects and and and we're under obligation from town meeting to say let's move this
forward. What I was what I was anticipating was that we were going to get bogged down more and it wasn't efficient to start with 127. We should have started with stepping stones. It just seemed like it was a more efficient
project to work towards. That was my intention, but again in my you know I didn't see it coming kind of thing that the vote would have been taken to just like just put it aside. So I think the pro two projects can move
forward. I just wanted to move the stepping stones ahead of it. That was it. So, so you're you're saying that if if the board decided tonight to change its mind and go ahead with these design guidelines, pay the 15,000 that the next
step, it wouldn't pause the project. It would >> just move things forward, just keep moving them forward. But the stepping stone, >> the next step would be an RFP faster. >> It would be an RFP, >> right? One thing that was lost in separating these, if you remember when we were talking about these properties at
previous meetings, we talked about the option of having of allowing a developer to bid on both of them because the fear was that or the concern was that 127 might not might not invite uh sufficient number of bids and that seems to be lost
now. I guess >> it's definitely a concern I have. >> Yeah. Um >> Yeah. And I and and for me to had brought that up was simply for in my mind at that time was uh let's move something ahead quickly get it out of
the way get to the next one which was old harbor and I am deeply apologized to Carolyn for this and in in just mucking up the works but I want to I want to I want to see this go forward. This is this is important to the town. >> Any other comments from the board?
Stuart and then Cy. >> Yeah. is I mean other than Shireen's explanation on the previous vote, is there any other information that's new that we're bringing why is this back before us? We already voted against it. >> I put it on the agenda because a committee had recommended that we
reconsider it and I I I if a committee comes forward with something, I that's my my approach is to put >> Yeah. I mean, that's your prerogative. It's just very short time period that took the vote and then we're we're back we're back here. Um, so
twofold, I guess, two things. I'm interested in your um the the legal question um from maybe town council. I got I and I'm going to say I don't know whether it should be this town council, but nonetheless, uh you know,
some people get >> it wasn't the town council that gave us the ability to >> No, I I Yeah, I see that. I think I have everybody's here. Um, but some people get too close to issues and lose our objectivity. In any event, um, you know, I've I've reviewed
I think all of the paper that there is or um I've looked at the will. God help you trying to read that. That's uh that's pretty old. Um, I've read the cautisle. Um, I've read the town meeting votes.
To me, the intention of this gift is clear. I can read it back so the public hears this again. I devised to the town of Chadam my land on Old Harbor Road in said Chattam together with the
buildings thereto with the provisions and upon the conditions that the same shall be designated as the Marian Ellis playground and that no buildings other than those that are there uh on the premises at my demise
shall be placed or maintained thereupon. It being my purpose in making this gift that said land shall be used in for an additional playground recreational area for the present site of the school
located on the abuing property. You know at town meeting that vote was unanimous. At town meeting the then uh representative of the Ellis property handed the keys to the chairman of the board. Um you know this is the days when
you know you made a deal on a handshake and I think uh our obligation is to uphold our end of the deal irrespective of they certainly didn't mention or know anything about 30 years. We just heard before that the chop housing people
thought that that was going to go on forever and that was that didn't happen. So um >> I don't know how we can have it both ways. I I think it's important that we that we uphold what what we have said we
would do. And if you're not going to uphold that, uh, you know, I I think that that I think that's terrible. I think who would ever donate prop property to us again? Um, so now I sh I should say that since then
I've had a discussion with um some folks that are are interesting um in a in a way that I think would at least resolve part of this issue that town meet took a gift accepted a gift um
um as to who might be eligible for any uh any affordable or attainable housing on that property. Um, you know, maybe it could be that could I don't know, but maybe that could be narrowed to uh people who are affiliated maybe teachers
to the school and that would be maybe fulfilling a portion of this uh her wish here. Um but and then lastly I'll say I voted against it because of this and because I felt
and I still do that we are putting way too many projects forward at once. There is no timeline for this affordable housing threshold. There is uh we had we didn't do anything since what 1970 or something. So uh it's not like we're
we're rushed now. Yes. there there is a nationwide and a communitywide housing problem capewide. Um, but I'm concerned that we're making rash decisions and not thinking these things through. I, you
know, I won't beat a dead horse, but I will say again, we are going to live the we're going to see the day that we regret the West Chatam project. I'm just telling you that right now. Um, and I hope, you know, that doesn't matter.
It's part of my discussion. So, that's my argument. And, uh, you know, I I say we hold off. I I already have concerns about stepping stones. Um, that we moved forward with an RFP before this board
saw the final version of it. How do we complain about Congress making decisions and votes they don't bills they don't read? We do the same thing here. So, I think we need to slow down. I want to see how these projects, if they happen, how they how they transpire and how they
look and how they how they um how they serve the community. So, I don't think there's any rush to this. I really want to see how this stepping stone project moves forward. Um if it moves forward uh and and that we get that one right.
>> Thank you. >> Cory, you were next. I just want to make just part of the conversation because I mean aside from my feelings about the will town meeting did vote to for affordable housing the conversations I've had with many
have given me the tone and this I got to put this on the table is we we never had a hard number but it was two three someone can maybe argue maybe four pe four units were were you know the expectation of what the what how we're going to develop it. Um, Lord knows
during these conversations we've had numbers much much higher which you know obviously some of the numbers are unrealistic and they're never never going to fit the neighborhood. Um, but that's I think which bothers some people who have supported that they want the affordable housing unit and if town meeting wants to move forward with
affordable housing unit that's wonderful but I guess I guess and I hate to using the term but it's the density issue always becomes kind of a stumbling block for some some of these conversations. what is the correct um and then we interviewed a bunch of people um earlier tonight and um I do think one of their
multiple times there was this the response to the density came up this needs to be done on a parial by partial basis and I think this is a prime example of parcel by parial what is what is the density and I'm I'm not advocating one or another but I think um this has just been a very uncomfortable
project to discuss because we kind of were so eager to get it going it' been kind of sitting unused used and idle, you know, for so long. We had good intentions. We probably could have done a better job getting it out of the gate. So, this has been a lot of dynamics that
have just clashed together to put us where we are now. Um, and it's it's it's unfortunate, but uh hopefully we can get some of these projects together and and and make some of these work, but um it's been this is definitely been one of the the least enjoyable projects I've had in all the years I've been on the board.
>> Jeff, then Shireen. So, you know, we're rushing to do this project. How many years have we been talking about this? How many years? Years. Buildings unused. Years we've been masticating, obliviating,
bloiating about this project. All we're trying to do is provide housing. If our town council had come back and said to us, you must honor that will select board inviolent, then I'd say all bets off.
As a responsible member of the select board, I'd say all bets off. But that's not what our town council came back to us with. Our town council said that restriction has expired. You may use that piece of property for affordable housing. Go with God. And the town
meeting is voted. And for us not to not to at least approve guidelines to give us a taste of what might be to Corey's recent point. We're in the driver's seat on what goes there. We're in the driver's seat and town meetings ultimately going to vote. So we're in
the driver's seat on what goes there. How many units, what they look like, and on and on. So why would we as a board say, "Oh, no. Tell me to vote no good. We're going to back off. We're going to honor we're going to the will after you've been told we don't have to." Why would we do that as a board if we want
housing? >> Shireen. >> Um I I'm listening to Corey and I I'm thinking back to when we were looking at the test fits. I thought we had a really good engaging exchange. Everybody looked
at the designs. They were very surprised that it fit the, you know, how how well the design could fit the neighborhood. The discussion was yes, this many versus that many. Is this too many? Is that too many? Um or is this just right? I I
thought we were in good shape and that's, you know, that's probably why I thought the pause was a good timing and it wasn't. And so I felt that was one of the more creative moments this board had in in working on that pro, you know,
working through that project. And I felt pretty confident that that if we go to design, we'll still have the opportunity to tweak it. the the density issue wasn't there. It it really fit and the it just looked
like it was just streamlined eclectic housing. You know, the whole neighborhood is just like that. I mean, I was really amazed at it was Unions. Was it who who did the UTL >> UTL did that and and they were they're renowned for understanding and they sat
with us and they talked with us and they got a better understanding of all I mean this isn't going to be a place where there'll be high density. It just doesn't it doesn't fit. It's it this was a a a really cool project and um you
know I I just don't understand why not. I agree with Jeff on what he said about process and how we got here. >> Can I comment again at some point? >> Yes, Carol. Go ahead, please. Go ahead. All right. Just just a little more history. We actually went to town
meeting three times on this because the first time we went was a citizens petition and it was non-binding and we had over 90% support on this. And yes, town council has has ruled on this I think at three different meetings. And
the fact I'm not an attorney obviously, but the fact that there's two attorneys that are disagree with each other seems to be a common phenomenon. They're both advocating for their client. And the fact that you could dismiss town council over a attorney who's advocating for
their client, I I don't understand why that how that has so much weight in this conversation when you are bound by town meeting vote to proceed on this. Um, and again, I can't impress on you enough
that this has to go to town meeting. So, the the the issue about what the public wants us to do, what they're they're willing to support will all be they'll have their chance to support this or not when they have to fund it. So, there's nothing that can you can't do something wrong and get something through without
town support at this point. And also if you look at if however this ends up being whatever the test fits the design guidelines are it might help alleviate some of the the density on stepping stone if we if we
get a developer to to come along and he wants to do both projects and however however many units they need to build you know to make it uh economical for them. I mean having a bigger picture and again we can't do anything without town meeting support. So, it's nothing's
going to run away on us with this, but having the option, having the developer come and look at whatever can be done and coming up with the best solution and then going to town meeting, getting the support either happens or it doesn't, it's going to be up to them. It's not up to us. Our obligation is to come up with
the best plan possible and to bring it to the public. >> You're suggesting that uh if if this if 127 went out separately that a developer might look at that and say, "I'll bid on both of them. I I I think it's going to be hard to get Yeah, I think I think we'll get more
options. Um >> Okay. >> To to do that, especially for Yeah, definitely. I like the option. >> And I just wanted to clarify something. I'm not saying that I put more trust in these or confidence in these letters, this one letter really
>> than I do in town council. And if you go back and play, I have not, but I remember that meeting and Mr. my good friend and he is my good friend said I was engaging in legal gobbledegook at the time. I think that was the word he used tonight. I think he used something
>> much more safu or something but but and I was I was puzzled by by Pat Costello's response but I accepted it because I had great great regard for Mr. Costello and that's that was the opinion but we did not have letters lawyer letters at that
time from abutters saying you know this there's sort of an implicit threat that they'll sue it doesn't say that and that I guess you know if I'm a private person and I have an I had an attorney who told me X and then a few years later I was
going to undertake consider undertaking that course of action and then I get a letter from a lawyer saying hey you got a problem with this and I have a new lawyer, I might want to go to my lon lawyer and say, "What do you think of this before I make the decision to go forward?" That's kind of where where I'm
inclining. Corey then than then then uh Stuart, I'm sorry. And then we have some public. >> So, I'm in agreement, but aside put aside my feelings on the project, my my comments over the years. >> Um, we're we're we have a project a project. We've taken multiple steps,
multiple conversations, whatever. We've at a point where we have um two legal entities presenting us information that we can either ignore or we can either review and figure out is it something that we need to worry about or
not worry about. I think the mechanics of this is we have two legal entities reaching out to us. I think it's our duty to have town council at least weigh in. It's not going to take months to do this. This is this is something I think we can relatively turn around in a short time. Have the have our current town
council weigh in and you know you know we can go back and forth. But I think the the responsible thing to do is to have our current town council say this is something we should be worried about or can we just move forward and and then we move it forward and we vote yay or nay. Um but I do think we have a
responsibility to at least engage in or address this these legal you know letters that have come forward to us because you know do they have any merit or the or the the scope of the validity on it. I I think this is a responsible
thing to do just in our for for us being in the seat. We have to address what is in the best interest of the public from a legal perspective. And if town council says, "Don't nope, not worried about it." Then that that would help me kind of process this a little bit better. If he comes back and says, "No, you should
be worried about this because of this, this, and this." Then we got to kind of really have a sit down and kind of figure out, you know, obviously two attorneys disagreeing. Not a big surprise, but I I do think the mechanics of it, it's it's what we're supposed to do. >> Are those letters from two different
attorneys? Because the verbiage is exactly the same. They're identical letters, but they're different. >> They must they they probably communicate. >> They obviously communicate >> communicating with each other. >> They can only come up with one argument. >> Yes, it's not. It's It's the same letter. >> It's the same letter. I >> I want to modify something I said
initially when I talked about our town council possibly reaching out to them. I I think we could if we wanted to do this, we could get our town council just looking at it himself and and he should look at Mr. Costello's advice. he should
he should view the video of that when Costello and I pressed him vigorously and he responded and he was very confident about this not being a problem but anyway someone else wanted to steward I'm sorry >> so
similar to your comments Dean I I don't know why we would just unnecessarily walk into a potential conflict with uh the neighbors and the law firm I I don't think it's necessary I don't know what The hurry is we can we can get this
opinion in a reasonable amount of time as Cory said. I mean this is going to take very long. Uh I would like the legal opinion to address the gift issue that you know the previous attorney had had mentioned that uh I think it was
Ford Michael Ford um addressing the what are our obligations legal if any. I know what the moral and ethical v uh obligations are. You want to talk about obligations to town meeting? Yeah, we do because there were there weren't three votes on this. There were five and
started in 1971. So >> So I think that it's uh and those were that first one was a gift to the town and we use it in accordance. I've also just want to reiterate that there may be
I think a way to address those gift concerns if we can have a conversation with uh uh Mr. Ford and and town council um to to at least uh you know go along with the the spirit if if not the letter
of the law uh letter of the gift wording um by ensuring that those if we get to building attainable housing there that we do so uh and that people who work at the school get to
benefit from that. It's an interesting, you know, I didn't think of this. Somebody else, you know, >> I don't I I'm sorry to >> No, I'm just I think that similar to my my my other arguments that I lost and that was stepping stones and the and the parking fee.
All I'm asking is for a few, you know, a little bit longer to cross the eyes or cross the tees and dot the eyes and um it's it's just time and we've got plenty of it. Um, just in in respon Thank you. Just in response to two things you said.
I I I I think our town council, if we were to ask him, probably give us an opinion within a few days what he thinks of this. And I'll I do know for the record that these letters don't articulate any legal theory. They just say you've got a legal problem. That's
basically what they say. >> And it could be just bluster. But, you know, I'm very careful as a lawyer when I sign my name to something. If I say if I say there's a problem, then I in my head know I I've got something to back it up. Some some of my professional
brethren may not operate the same way. Um the second thing about um making uh it possible that any development here be available to school teachers or others. I think that's something that would be
available to us under the seasonal communities law, right? Or designation or otherwise, right? And that I don't think we would need to involve outside attorneys in that. >> Yeah. And and that's fine. I didn't mean to put you on this. I didn't want to
mention Gloria, you were the one that brought that up. Credit goes to >> Could you clarif >> Would you mind clarifying that? >> Sure. So seasonal and actually this is all tied in to restrictions and the length of them. Um so seasonal
communities would allow us to target um dwelling units to teachers, school employees, DPW workers and stuff like that. you can choose to use um that designation to target for teachers specifically or maybe it's a little bit
more broad like anyone who works for the schools um or the Chattam schools. So that said, one of and I I love looking at statute and I really enjoy trying to figure things out and find things. So one of my concerns which has been
bubbling up, Jill, this is the first time you're hearing this. Um, one of my concerns which has been bubbling up is that um, Mass General Laws chapter uh, 184 section 31, which is probably what Pat refers to, um, lays out exactly what
kinds of restrictions you can do in perpetuity. Agricultural preservation restrictions, affordable housing restrictions, there's a bunch of them. if it's not specifically mentioned in statute. There's a lot of case law and decisions that say that these types of
restrictions that are not mentioned as restrictions that can be made in perpetuity expire after 30 years. So I knew this from when I was doing development and we would write homeowners association restrictions. We knew that they were valid for 30 years. The chop houses are a little different.
They had a deed writer that was good for 40 years, but they were not in perpetuity. But if you don't have the right under statute to do a restriction in perpetuity, it's common knowledge and town council will give you the same
opinion that it expires in 30 years. So, it's not so much that this was like a gift, it's that it was the restriction on the gift. And restrictions, if they're not allowed to be in perpetuity under uh chapter 184 section 31, expire
in 30 years. So, it is what it is. So that that really is going to be the answer that you get from town council about this and I think it's I think it's probably an answer that you can you can read in this because if you if you read the actual language of this it says our
clients through us have previously expressed doubts about the legality. So, it doesn't say to me that attorneys are expressing doubts, but it's fine if you want town council to review this if the town manager agrees with that. But it doesn't seem like it's something that,
like Dean, you said mentioned statute for why this would be able to be a restriction in perpetuity. So, getting back to seasonal communities and being able to target these restrictions, um, one of the concerns I have, and I'll
probably recommend doing a warrant article to address this, is that, um, year- rounds and attainable restrictions are not listed in chapter 184, section 31. So my take would be that any
restrictions that we put on attainable housing that we create over 100% AP uh AMI because the CPA statute actually does allow for restrictions in perpetuity. So you can go up to 100% AMI if you're using CPA funds, 80% AMI
otherwise, but for attainable and year-round restrictions like we need to get something in place so that we can do these in perpetuity because right now I don't really think we can. That said, and Stuart already had I think I emailed him um like draft
language for what I was was thinking about. That said, I think that it makes sense to do a home rule petition so that the town of Chadam, notwithstanding um restrictions that can be held in perpetuity under the Mass General laws that I referenced earlier. Um the town
of Chadam can also do restrictions that are year round and for attainable housing up to say 200% AMI in perpetuity. >> I just want to say two things. this the the section of the letter the portion of the letter that I quoted from earlier does not refer to the clients. It's a
flat statement signed by the lawyer at the end saying the town must comply with the donor's restrictions to maintain trust and encourage future contributions. That's there's their statement as an attorney. The other thing about one and I haven't
gone back and researched I I never have researched the whole area. I didn't research it when I was questioning Mr. Costello, but there was a I believe there was another se my recollection is there was another section of chapter 141 that I was referring to and I pointed it
to Pat and I said doesn't this mean that this restrictions last and he said no and I believe he said that on the basis of his reading of case law >> which I hadn't read. So I just really wanted to point out I'm I'm but anyway that's that aside I don't want to debate
that issue. The question is basically uh you know is does it make any sense to ask Mr. Talaman to affirm or not affirm that? But anyway, if there's more any more unless there's Okay, we have a couple comments from the board and then I'm going to go to the public. Go ahead Steuart and then
Jeff. >> So, thank you, Gloria. That was uh that was helpful. Um cuz I I I think we have the opportunity if we just put like tap the brakes a little bit for a month to get legal opinion to on that on that
issue that Mr. Ford has raised and simultaneously a home rule petition and some buyin with the neighbors. I mean really we have an opportunity where everybody can come together and make this work. We just have to it's not going anywhere. that
property is not leaving. And um I think it's important and I've heard a lot of public input on how important it is that we honor our commitments. And um I think that that's you know I won't say I don't
care what the legal argument is. I do. That is one argument. But the other portion of this is to satisfy that. And I think we can do that. >> Thank you, >> Jeff. >> I think we can satisfy the intent of the of the will. Um, when we first started
to discuss 127 Old Harbor at this board meeting, it was stated, I believe by me, that it'll be great to have teachers, firemen, local employees live there. Does anybody recollect that? >> Oh, yeah. >> I think I use the phrase, this is lowhanging fruit.
>> It it it could very well >> low hanging fruit this town. >> I think we just need to tighten up a few loose ends. And I think you're you're absolutely right, Jeeoff. It it could be good. Even the neighbors may accept this. Wouldn't that be great? Why would we jam something down people's throat
when we don't have to? Why would we invite a legal argument when we don't need to? All we need is a little time and we have plenty of it. >> So, you think the legal argument that we're going to house uh teachers is going to plate the neighbors. >> I think that coupled with an appropriate
uh and I don't know what that is yet because I haven't seen it. uh an appropriate vision of what that property could look like would might, you know, I think so. I mean, it could. >> Okay, good. Now, we're slowing down. We're slowing down, however, that ability to get that appropriate vision of what the property might look like for
$15,000 for a legal opinion. It's going to take we're we're not going to see it for a couple weeks. >> Yeah, I'd like we don't meet until the 14th. We could get a legal opinion in two or three days, I think. >> Yeah, I think we could, too. >> I think this is total. >> But anyway, okay. You know, we're getting a little
repetitive here, but Corey, did you have one last thing to say? Then >> I was just going to simply say in the very last paragraph of the of the cover letter from attorney Ford, the it says, "Cadam has a legal and ethical obligation to
honor restricted gifts and to respect any donor's intent." What is the background behind the legal exactly? That that's all I >> find out what that is. I don't know what it maybe it doesn't exist, >> but I do know one thing and then I'll shut up. Maybe it opens up the door to the conversations that we've we're throwing around. I mean,
>> there go ahead, Stuart. >> Stuart, never mind. I'm just repeating. >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. I I just say I I don't know that I want to invite outside law firms into the development of the property. That's all I'm saying. I have an issue. I have concern about
that. But anyway, um public I see Nicole Stern. Anyone in the audience? Okay, I'm gonna I called Nicole first, so we'll let her speak. Miss Stern, >> thank thank you very much. Um,
let's see. Old Harbor Road. It has been controversial for a long time. And I remember the first meeting that I became really aware
of all Harbor Road or affordable housing was our first outdoor town meeting following CO. the the town, the people of course they wanted to support
affordable housing because in their minds and they were told this was it would be to support the people that were living and working in Chattam and to keep our families here so that we
could continue to increase the number of students at our elementary school. So yes, everybody was on board, but you know, then things become realistic and things that I wasn't aware
of, they weren't aware of. And so I could see why they were so but it wasn't. She made it very clear when she left that to the town of
Chadam. She made it clear how she wanted it used and all of a sudden there were dozens of people that were reading a dead person's mind. I took great objection to that. I think
we should have done the right thing and there were opportunities before we pushed on to affordable housing that we could have fulfilled every wish that she had.
It came up during the Council of Aging looking for a home for them. There were lots of opportunities. So, this is not an easy situation. It never has been. I don't know how town meeting would
respond now. They're not feeling quite the same way as they did a year ago when they became educated. And we all realize that there are restrictions and things we don't control with affordable
housing. So, they might not vote for it. Maybe they would. But in the meantime, why are you taking $15,000 of taxpayer money and flushing it down the toilet just in case they don't?
I don't think there's any reason to move forward on this right now. I know for a fact because I've watched all of you when you've referred to town council. You didn't always agree with town
council, but that was town council. Well, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what lies ahead, but I don't think you need to push this right now.
Especially, as I said, my dead brother, should he rest in peace, used to say to me when I'd find a quarter on the sidewalk, "Well, keep it, Nicole, because you wouldn't flush it down the toilet." So, please don't flush our
$15,000 down the toilet. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Nicole. I'm going to go to Brian Phillips, then Gloria Hicks, and then Elaine Gibbs. Brian Phillips, 374 Orleans Road. Um, I just kind of have a big problem with the will, uh, you know, and people donating
for the future because it's kind of sends the message that, you know, after 30 years, we're just going to go against your dying wishes. Um, I just don't know why we can't use another piece of property that isn't so controversial. Thank you, >> Gloria Hicks.
Thank you, Brian. Gloria Hicks, Meeting House Road. Um, I was at the meeting where this property was put on hold and I have to tell you I was stunned. I have no idea why this is not proceeding like every
other project because we got a threatening lawyer from um, Abutters because it's quote contentious with the abutters. That was the reason that I think was brought up in the first place. Every one of these projects has been contentious with the abutters. I am an
abutter. I have a lawyer. The bakers have a lawyer. Maybe Mr. Levit has a lawyer. That's how this goes. This piece of property should not be treated any differently than the other parcels that we've worked on. And I knew it would be
because it's in Cadam proper. All right. Gloria has just talked about the statute. It was run by um Council Costello. It went to town meeting. Period. Done. Deal. This never should
have been put on hold in the beginning. We're desperate for housing, in particular attainable housing for the workforce. And we haven't even talked about senior housing. That's not on anybody's radar right now getting through these projects. This needs to go forward. Period. And it doesn't need to
wait. It needs to go now. Thank you. >> Thank you, Gloria. Elaine Gibbs. Uh yes, thank you. Uh couple things. First of all, pragmatically, uh I think that it's not the highest best use of the land there, and I think
it's a bad return on the investment. There could only be a couple units there because of the space. The only um land we have downtown right now is Veterans Field and that and uh I don't think we should do anything permanent there uh
because of her intent. Uh, I think if you had 10 count town council opinions, she 10 C town councils, you can get 10 count town council opinions. Her deed and wishes were clear. She had an attorney that drafted it back then. I
assume there was no case law that said in perpetuity meant 30 years or she probably wouldn't have done it. Uh, I think this approach that just ignore her uh is is going to come back to haunt you because when people want to consider
donating land uh to the town and they expressly say regardless of case law that this is what I want to do. Uh you're not going to get it. People are not going to do it. Um so I would urge you to get some other opinions. Uh I
think the town v town town meeting vote could have been unintentionally illegal because of her will uh that people were under the misconception. This is totally different than stepping stones that was given to us to use as we wish
uh from the uh the Monmoy school district. This was not This is an encumbered piece of property and I think you should be a little less callous about Mrs. Ellis's wishes and um
I'm pretty shocked at the attitude that that she's immaterial in this discussion. Those words that uh Mr. Smith read were pretty pretty specific and that's what she believed and I think we should honor it. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Okay, I there are no more public comments. I'm going to bring it back to the board. Shireen, >> um I just want to remind everybody that and I just checked with Corey to make sure we built a playground for her on that property and um and and it's there and there's a plaque and it's not like
she's gone. I think the most dishonorable thing we've done is ignore that property and it has been used for I don't know storage for the harbor masters department, emergency response stuff, a water department and and we could go around and round and round and
round about all this stuff and do this for that or say this for that. So that's a bunch of bee for me to to to hear we're honoring when in fact it has been used for other reasons. The playground's a really nice playground. It really we really did well um in putting it there
and I let's just move forward with this. >> All right. What's the pleasure of the board >> that the playground is not all that was mentioned in the cautisole? It mentions the buildings and how they should be maintained as is. So, you know, we we
can we can haggle about this, but um I'll just say it again. If we just get a little bit more information, if we just do a little bit more homework, if we just maybe work with the neighbors a little bit more, we might be able to do something without having a battle about
it. And it just takes time. That's all. Um well, what we have before us is a request from the housing partnership basically to to reverse and give this
the go-ahad by voting to approve a $15,000 expenditure for design guidelines which would be incorporated into an RFP and that process would move forward. That's what's before us for consideration.
um and I mean it's obvious that the board is split um on this and you know my inclination again is hey I got this letter I understand what you know what Miss Hicks
was saying but we're at a point now where we're about to make a decision and we've got letters representing a butters we don't know who they are but they haven't been identified but I'm taking them at face tell you and I'd like to send this I personally would like to
send this to Mr. Talaman and and just say hey um we're considering spending we're considering going forward design guidelines that are going to cost 15,000 can you give us take a look at this letter take a look at Mr. Costello said,
"Watch that video from two years ago. I wouldn't ask him to reach out to this the the lawyers who signed these letters." Um, are we okay going forward? Does this give you any pause? That's my sentiment on it. >> And why are you going to believe him any
more than you're going to believe Mr. Costello? Do you >> I think if Mr. Costello, we're still town council. I would send him this these letters and say, Pat, does this affect anything in in your opinion? That's what I would say. >> You've always agreed with town council. >> I have.
>> Thank you. >> I have. >> Thank you. >> If that's what we're going if we're going to ask town council, I think that's the prudent thing to do. Uh I'd like him to address the concerns that Mr. Ford has in the letter. And if we have any legal, we definitely have a
moral and ethical obligation. That's unquestionable. But do we have a legal obligation to uh to uh um use this gift as clearly was stated in in town meeting in 1970? >> The only thing I would say about the
moral obligation that argument was made at town meeting. And I'm not talking about 1971. I'm talking about 2020. And town meeting voted the other way. >> Yeah. And okay, I can disagree with that. >> Yeah, me too. I did. >> And I do. >> All right, Carolyn, did you want to say
something? And then I'm going to ask the board if anybody wants to offer a motion to do anything. Otherwise, it's going to die. >> If you would, which I think by the numbers you're going to go to town council and get this. All I can say is I had two two in one direction, two in the
other direction, and I'm gonna offend half this board whichever way I go, >> but go ahead, Carolyn. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> No, I don't have any comments at this point. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Can I say something? >> Lauria,
>> can you do an if then motion so that if town council says that the restrictions no longer apply, then we can move forward with the design guidelines? I'm not in favor of that. Um, but I am in favor of going down that road and I'd
like more information on the seasonal communities and what we're able to do with this piece of property, restricting it for, as Jeff has pointed out and you um for, uh, teachers and whomever else to get closer to the intent of of the
gift. Yes, I think that would be very helpful for me anyway and I'd like to move forward on something that has like unanim unonymity here and we keep coming up with split votes and I do believe completely unnecessarily. Thank you.
>> So, what additional information do you need on seasonal communities? >> Well, for instance, and I I wasn't quite following your your explanation of the law, but um are you say I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you saying
that if we were to build two homes here for teachers that we cannot rest two questions we cannot restricted to teachers? >> No. So seasonal communities which was adopted town meeting 2025 allows you to
restrict homes for um certain vocs and teachers are one of them. So you absolutely can do that. >> Great. And thank you for you know bringing that up uh before. Uh the second thing is does that restriction for go forever?
>> Um yes that would be so that would be something that you can put to town council as well. I think no. I think that we would have to do a home rule petition or the legislature would have to do something that would enable um yearround and attainable restrictions to be um in perpetuity.
>> Yeah. It's it's I mean it's kind of shocking, isn't it, that and you might be able to help out, Dean, but it's kind of shocking that we own a piece of property and we can't restrict restricted. >> The law generally doesn't favor restrictions in perpetuity in general. >> There's something called the rule
against perpetuities, which most law students don't understand, but >> but that's but >> okay. I mean, it's possible we can get around it by rather than selling it, doing like a 99-year lease, land lease, because then I'd have to look into it, but I think that you can keep your
restriction during the term of the land lease, which could be 99 years >> given the favorable housing climate on the Beacon Hill. I suspect something like the home rule petition you were talking about might might have >> some favorable response. I think that would be helpful because
>> something longer term I think >> but I think that would it's part of this pro could be part of this process. I think it would be helpful because you know we are hearing right all of the you know little nightmares that are coming out that we as Nicole uh Stern mentioned
that you know we thought and aren't turning out to be true referencing let's just the chopousing as an example. So, I mean, ev So, everyone knew that the deed restrictions for the chop houses were 40 years. The people who
bought chop houses knew that. That's why they're holding on to them for their 40-year term, so that all of a sudden it's not, you know, deed restricted anymore. And just >> Well, I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No, go ahead. Well, I went to that town meeting and the impression that I had
was right or wrong, okay, there's a 40year limit, but we lost 11 houses >> and and we captured some too in resale through the um executive office of housing and livable communities. They ended up doing uh they call them a
universal deed writer which actually is in perpetuity and there's potentially one coming up for sale. Hopefully, we'll be able to capture that through the state also. So the town has literally nothing to do with this. We don't have a right of first refusal. We don't have to
be notified when there's a sale. It all goes through the state, but now that we're we're really like hyper aware of this. And I am I am on the case. >> I know you are. And but nonetheless, 11 of those homes are not >> exactly, >> you know, we lost. We're getting so we
won't lose any others >> through early sales, but we may lose some if the 40 years is up and someone sells it at like 41 years. Then we have no we have no options. That's why we're looking at potentially doing um you know
deed restrictions that we purchase. >> We're getting a little farther a field here talking about the chop houses. Caroline, >> back to 127. Just I I liked her original Gloria's original idea of, you know, conditional. If you get the if you get the okay from town council, what's your
vote going to be? Um, I don't I'm vehemently opposed to you putting a whole bunch of conditions on this to even get the test guidelines. I mean, to to get uh design guidelines for this. All right. I mean, if you want to I would love for there to be a teacher
there, but if you conditioned it on 99 year restriction on only having a teacher there, what if there's no teachers who need it in the given moment that it's available? I mean, there's all sorts of scenarios. Can we lean into that and if that's available to us, apply it as much as we can? Absolutely.
But is it conditional? I I I don't think we need to be discussing that at this moment. >> I I Well, I agree with you on that. I think the seasonal communities opportunities are something that we would be be presenting to town meeting when we have the the project
described and proposal for funding at as far as um the condition that Gloria suggested that we agree tonight to accept the opinion. I that we're going to go forward with it. I'd like to see the opinion before I I make that decision, but I you know I I suspect
he's going to say I agree with Costello. >> You going to be able to get it back on the agenda in a reasonable amount of time? I know you got lots >> October 14th is what I would propose to do is say is our next meeting. We're not meeting next week. >> And I can't imagine town council
couldn't give us a an opinion within the next few days. Certainly this week or over a week's time. It doesn't usually take them very long to do it, but I know that's just my thinking. >> Is there a magic? Is there something magic about October 14th?
>> It's just our next meeting. I >> It could be the following meeting. Well, but I feel like we're being I feel like I have a gun to my head. If you don't do this, we're going to do this. No, I think my position would be we do exactly as you're suggesting. We just go forward, get a legal opinion on this.
You're you may be right. You may be siding with uh the previous attorney. I don't know. But it would be one more piece of information. I'm glad to hear about the seasonal communities. That's encouraging. But I'm not going to sit here and say do this or else. No, but >> I don't think we need to make that
determination tonight. I that that piece of it I as far as putting it on for the 14th. For me, the qu the question I would like to have answered is what does town council think of >> the this letter and these opinions. >> Exactly. And it's up to you as chairperson as to when it goes on the
>> on the miss Mr. Meadows. One quick question for Gloria. I do not want to get deep into the weeds with it tonight, but something I want prepared for the conversation because you mentioned something about, you know, we talk about restricting it to teachers and there's certain occupations but you made an earlier comment maybe we could broaden
that net a little bit to all people who work for the modern boy school or chat school whatever I definitely want clarity at some point how broad of that net could be because if you we brought it go so broad that we really don't you know we're making it too broad to
allow certain restrictions that needs to be clarified because these conversations about who we can and cannot restrict it to have been battered around. So, at some point do want to get more crystal clear what our box is. So, that's all I'm looking I don't want to get deep into the weeds tonight, but it's something that we need to be prepared to
clarify at some point. >> I can clarify it right now. So, any municipal employee that works for the school district would be eligible under seasonal communities. So, you could do it that broad. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Well,
does someone have a motion they want to bring? If not, I'm going to make an executive decision. >> Make an executive decision. >> Okay. Did you want to speak? >> Uh there's two motions to be made. One
remanding for requesting a a further legal opinion, which is unnecessary, and another one is to to suggest that we move forward with the design guidelines. There's there's two motions to be made. Who would like to make the motion? I would I'll make the motion to approve
the uh move forward with the design guidelines um and approve the attached scope of work for design guidelines for a housing development RFP for the former Ellis property at 127 Old Harbor Road and to authorize this work be funded through the town manager's CE account. >> Is there a second? >> There's a second.
>> Any discussion? >> Okay. You sure you want this vote? Well, I are you going to remand it to the to the to the lawyers or I'll I'll make a different motion. >> My intention is if there is no motion and no vote, I'm going to personally individually as chair of this board
request an opinion from town council on on um the the um the advice, let me rephrase that. I'm going to request the advice of town council on
whether the select board should um proceed with consideration of um um undertaking the design guidelines project
in light of the letters we received from coun from from um the council for abutters. And uh Kathy, would you read that back, please? >> It's very convoluted. Poor Kathy. >> Uh it is the request of the chair to uh
seek the advice of town council on whether the select board should proceed with the consideration of undertaking the design guidelines project in light of letters received from legal represent representatives of the abutters is what I got there.
>> But there's no request for an opinion that would concur with Mr. Costello's. >> I would hope he he would be informed. I would request he be informed of Mr. Costello's opinion. >> Okay. >> So, I'm going to withdraw my motion. >> I'll I'll withdraw my second.
>> Okay. Well, I'm making that request. Don't tell manager will relate it to Mr. Talon. >> Got it. >> I don't expect or even want him to speak with the attorneys who wrote these letters. I just want him to take a look at the letters and tell us do we have
any concerns about proceeding and I'd like to have that in time and I will put it on for October 14th if we get that reinion and response um a timely basis I expect we will okay so I'll take the heat on it >> I guess that's it
>> thank you Carol thank you Gloria okay the next item is um Mr. Smith's um request for a discussion on chapter C town charter part 4 town manager section 4-7 administrative
powers and duties Mr. Smith >> sorry this should be painless uh Mr. chairman. Um so you you folks probably know I have a particular affiliate uh
um thank you for the charter. Um, if you look in the charter under 4-7 uh M, um, there's a couple of things that need to take place that haven't for what for whatever reason. I don't particularly think it's important. Um,
and I'm not even sure we need a vote for this, uh, Mr. chairman, but I just wanted to bring to light and I'll read uh M uh to be responsible for the negotiation of all contracts with town employees over wages and other terms and conditions of employment. That's
referring to the town manager's responsibility. And if you'll remember, of course, town manager is also responsible for those negotiations with the uh unions and um uh and and the um employees under the personnel policies.
What we haven't been uh seeing is the other contracts that uh I'll call them right or wrong, I'll call them personal contracts with employees, typically I think department heads. I'm not sure all of whom they are uh with the town
manager on employment and those uh contracts should be coming back to actually must be coming back to the board um for approval. The last sentence of the contract under M says contract shall be subject to the approval of the of the select board. So it's pretty
clear that those not only those but there's only a few and um we're doing the rest of them under the union the rest of the employees under the union contract. So I think it should and I don't believe there's any opposition to that um to bring those contracts back to
the select board as is required under M. The other thing that I uh I noticed um that the town manager, it goes on to say the town manager may subject to the approval of the select board employ special counsel to assist in the
performance of these duties. That makes perfect sense to me. >> Where are you reading that one? >> Under M. >> I'm still under M. Um, and I would like to request that uh those whoever those town councils are, special councils are,
that those contracts um come back for approval to the uh to the select board similar to the um to the uh general uh town council. Um I don't think that that's been taking place. I don't know if we have a contract. Um I don't think
we do, but uh those contracts have to be coming back to the board. So those are the two issues that uh I wanted to raise. I don't think there should be any it's kind of clear um and it kind of tidies up some of some of our responsibilities fulfilling our responsibilities. Thank you.
>> Okay. Be thank you store. Before I turn to the town manager, I want to just come in in the first sentence of him. There's a stray phrase at the end that says I I suspect that was inadvertently left in the charter and they probably said originally except employees of the school department.
>> Yeah. I I suspect >> should probably go out the next time there's a charter review. The second comment about the um >> excuse me, Mr. Chairman, or or just clarified by saying except those employees of the school, right? >> Yeah. What whatever the school district
Yeah. Because they're no longer employees of the town, they're employees of the districts. >> Um the second sentence that that you just read, the town manager may subject to the approval of the select board employ special counsel to assist in the performance of these duties. These duties are the re negotiation of
contracts with town employees over wages and terms and conditions of employment. We do have labor counsel and I'll ask town manager in a moment to speak to that. I don't know that we we never really see the contract and I don't think this line calls for us to to
review the actual contract but to approve the employment of special counsel just as we uh approved um under provisions uh elsewhere with uh respect to the select board. It's not in this
section of the charter. The select board engage uh the select board selects the town council. We appoint them. >> Yeah, we appoint them. Yeah. We don't we we review the in the as we've done. We look at the the request proposals and we
say, "Okay, this is, >> you know, we we're going to select you. We like what you're proposing in terms of your hourly rates and various conditions and we send it to the town manager and she signs the contract. We never actually get the contract in front of us to approve." Well, >> I'm not sure. >> I'm just saying. Okay. But the last
sentence specifically says that we have to subject to the approval of the board. So I would like to fulfill that. >> Yeah, I that's the third point and I I I don't know whether that means whether that includes the special counsel, but we can ask the town manager to talk about the labor council and contracts
for department heads, which is I think what we were talking about. >> Okay. >> What contracts are are the subject that are involved in that third sentence? That's >> Yeah, you want to Yeah, I just I I agree with you. I don't believe it means we have to go look at the a contract with
the special counsel. I agree I agree with you. I don't I don't think >> I mean I think it's appropriate in the conversation if she comes before us and says I want to hire you know Smith and Jones as the labor council. We can say you know how much you they're going to charge us. We can get into that. >> Well, I'm just all I'm doing is
repeating the sentence in M. The last sentence says contracts shall be subject to the approval of the select board. All I'm >> But the only again the only one >> the only anticcedent of that though Stuart it's not in that second sentence where they talk about special counsel it's in the first sentence where they
talk about contracts the union contracts >> all contracts with town employees not >> contracts with town employees >> special maybe I should read the whole thing again. Would you like me to read the >> I mean I don't think it's going to help. The first sentence says town manager is
responsible to negotiate contracts with employees over wages and division employment. Second sentence says the town manager may subject to the approval of select board employ special counsel to assist in the performance of these duties. There's no mention of a contract with labor council in that sentence. The
third sentence says contracts shall be subject to the approval of the select board. So, I think as I read this, and I know you were on the charter commission originally, um, the the word contract refers back to the >> in the third sentence refers back to the
first sentence, which is the union contract. >> I totally agree. >> That's what I how I'm reading it. >> I am too, >> Cy. It's poorly placed, but that's >> Well, being the non- attorney that I am, I'm I'm gonna get myself in trouble, you know. Hey, what what the heck? I mean,
the the select boards kind of approval of the process or whatever it says app um town manager may subject to the approval of the select board. So the select board says okay go ahead town council maybe we have to say under these conditions whatever that is our green
light for the town town manager to move forward with the special counsel. So that is our kind of check and balance. >> Yeah. And I think we could say in that so as I said she could come forward and say I want to hire this firm. We could say okay uh what are the terms that you're going to engage with? And she would probably ask us.
>> We could say at that in that vote we want to see the contract before we approve it. But I don't think the charter mandates that. That's all I'm saying. >> Okay. >> That's how my >> I I won't split hairs. >> That's how I'm reading it. >> That's fine. But I I think it would be prudent upon this board to do just that.
>> Okay. >> Which is to review. >> I hear you. Okay. Now, I'll turn to the town. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um starting with the employment contracts, we have three positions that have contracts um for compensation and uh various terms
and conditions. It's the fire chief, the police chief, and the director of finance. Those are the only three. And up until recently, 2023, we've had promotional uh appointments to the for the chiefs or which the board had approved per the other section of
the contract. And um the newest contract was for the director of finance, Carrie Mazerell, um who was hired in 2023. and based on the ter terms of the previous director of finance contract. Those
contracts are uh posted online and available in the binder that we have in the office. I hadn't taken them to the select board um in the past. I had consulted with the board at that time. Uh Florence Seldon was chair because I I
had trouble reading this this section too. So, I've had worked in other uh municipalities that had a charter that was clear. Some charters didn't require uh the town manager to take the contract since that the town manager can fix the
compensation. But nonetheless, we're in Chattam. So, I hadn't taken it. And that was the question I had um to chair Seldon uh what what she thought was appropriate. There was some discussion of of employee contracts and um employee
agreements back in 2014 when the the board at that time was working through their goal setting process. It didn't make it into the goals, but nonetheless, I'm I'm happy. I've talked to the the the three incumbents to those positions. Um if the board wants to approve them,
I'm I'm fine. They're all negotiated within the the context of our collective bargaining strategy. So, and you can look back, you know, I didn't negotiate Paulina or uh the previous fire chief because it wasn't I
wasn't here at the time. I'm not sure what the prior town manager did, but moving forward, I'm happy to bring them to you. So, there's there's really no issue with that. >> So, when they're up when they're up for renewal and you have one that's coming up for renewal? >> We do. We have the the fire chief is is coming up for renewal. Um it's for
November and then the finance director's contract expires on July 1st, 2026. So, uh hers would be negotiated. I I could set the same process we do for collective bargaining. We can have an executive session to talk about the
parameters. But again, if if you have a chance to read him, it's it's very much in line with with my contract as well as the collective bargaining agreement. >> My suggestion would be that and I'm gonna let Stuart comment on this, but my suggestion would be in the case of the
fire chief and and the police chief and the finance director as those contracts come up for renewal that you that you bring the um renewal renewal contract forward to us for approval. That's what the charter seems to require. I don't know that we need to go back and ratify
the ones that are already in place. I'm happy to do that, but I don't know that we need to do that. Does that meet your concern, Stuart? >> No. No, it it does. But I I just want to follow up on Jill's comment. It's it's >> it's not really what the board is willing to do. We're required to do
this. So, we have it's kind of a job description and I have to do it. Um and if we don't want to do it, well, we can change the language. we can if this isn't clear for people then we can have a charter amendment but I was hesitant to go that direction because who knows what where that will lead. Um so I just
wanted a few odds and ends to be cleaned up. >> No, that's fine. And I think I think the historical record is that the town manager was operating under guidance given by this the select board chair at the time >> under the bridge. >> Um that so now I'll turn to the the
labor council and I I don't you and I were chatting about this today. I don't sort of remember um I guess the other than Stuart, do we remember ever taking a vote to approve of um what's the name of the
>> So, I can I can talk about this. So, we've had Clifford and Kenny as labor councils since October of 2012. And I was John Clifford and I had spoken. I he said he had not given us a
contract. So, first of all, procurement for town council services doesn't require an RFP. Um, there it's exempt. Uh, but he had said he provided a fee agreement. So, I was trying to look through the town records um over the past couple of weeks. So, we have a fee
agreement. The last one I have uh from well the the oldest one I have is from 2016, but he references he had already he had been in service. So, the the select board since
2012 have relied upon and accepted the um advice of Clifford and Kenny who at that time was just two attorneys and as you've seen there's other attorneys that have assisted us for personnel or collective bargaining. Um the most recent fee agreement uh was just a
notification that came to us in um February of 20 25 and that was um an increase. We when we vote the budget when you recommend the budget to the finance committee and it's
voted at town meeting there's two line items in the budget. One is for uh town council and the other one is for labor council. So the the gist of it is I didn't find a vote on record of of anyone approving or appointing. They are
at will just like town council is. So if we don't want their services, there's really no notification. We just tell them. But if the board is amendable to continuing on with Clifford and Kenny, then to clear up whatever issue may be with the charter, it would be a vote to
affirm um their services as labor council. >> What happened in 2015 again? And when when in 2015 that's when I got on the board. I >> u 2016. So we had a a fee agreement in 2016 raising the rate to a
175. And we also have a monthly access fee. It's no charge. It's $400 and something dollars. So there could be unlimited calls or emails by them. But I did find those um in our file. >> But that was be that was not presented to the board at the time. board
>> that I don't recall it was. Junk Clifford said he thought it was, but I don't recall. So, it wasn't. >> So, I would suggest that the board considered tonight voting to approve the appointment of
Clifford and Kenny as town council. But I'd like to specify like you to specify what are the current terms with what's the current rate >> the current you have a letter agreement with them now. Um I I have notification. So I have a letter of agreement that I
had signed in 2016 and then I have the see what I do with it. Um I have the the notification that we just received. I'm not sure where it is, but the the I wrote notes to myself. So, the the rates in February 2025 are $250 per hour, and
there's no change to the monthly access fee, which means a limited phone and email, and that is $450. That was approved for the FY26 budget. >> And and we can um I mean, under court rules, we can anyway, but we can
discharge the attorney at any time. >> Yes. >> Uh is there a term in the contract in the letter agreement? Is there a term of >> There isn't. There wasn't a term >> similar to the contract we saw with >> exactly >> Mr. Talerman's firm. >> Yeah. >> I mean
I I guess it's open to the board to take a vote tonight or if you want to see that contract or that letter agreement that we could present that to the board and we're not approving the agreement. We in my opinion we approving the appointment of council but you know I think we have the make we have we have
knowledge of what's in the agreement. Um, for me it's enough, but I I I leave it up to the board. I want to address Stuart's concern that we're supposed to be approving the selection of labor council and we've never formally taken that vote. >> Okay. And just to clarify, we kind of
got off a little bit on the labor council. It says special counsel. So, it's any any I don't know if there's any others out there, but if there's any special counsel that the town manager uses, select board, >> but it would it would be it would be special counsel related to the negotiation of contracts. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, she we don't >> and the employment and the employment and the conditions of >> I think any other special counsel comes under we select it. She doesn't select it. We selected we selected the airport council. >> Yeah. Yeah. That sort Okay. Or Amy
Quessle was a special counsel. >> Yeah. >> So what does the board want to do? >> Move approval. >> Approval of the of the uh >> council. >> Yeah. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Any further discussion on that?
>> Well, go ahead. >> I feel like this is Congress. Are are we are we >> are we moving forward with the approval uh of of a special counsel and we don't know what the >> We don't have the document for the fees or the contract to look at.
>> Well, I think she's recited the contents of the document. If you want to defer until >> you see the document, that's fine. But we're not approving the contract. We would not be taking a vote to approve the contract if you want to defer it a vote until that time. >> Yeah, I'd like to I'd like to see what
I'm agreeing to. Yeah. >> Is there any comment from the rest of the board on this or we have a motion on the table that's been seconded? >> I I I don't care, Dean. I >> I don't think forever one way or another. I don't think
>> this is but peruncter. I mean, we've used these guys forever. >> Okay. Well, we can >> I can we can wait. That's fine. That's okay. >> Well, in order to >> I'll withdraw the motion. >> Withdrawn. >> I'll withdraw the second, but then finding this a bit. >> We'll put this on.
>> Let's pass him the letter. >> Let's put this on for the 14th and we'll have the letter. >> Sure. I'll scan it. It will it'll go in the packet for the 14th. So, that's >> We'll put that on. Okay. >> I think we've I think we've completed
>> I think we've completed um item F, right? Are we okay with >> Yeah, I think we're done with item F. Okay, we're going to go on to committee appointments. And there's just one. This is the affordable housing trust fund board of trustees.
And there is a a position available that runs until June 30th, 2026. This is the remainder of Mr. Shell's term, which is now to be filled by a non- select board member. We
have had seven applicants that we've interviewed. They are Katherine Sheerer, Brian Phillips, Anne Ryan, Lynn Plefner, Roger Randall, Hannah Smith, and Melinda Richards. Okay. So, I'll ask for nominations. >> Mr. Chair.
>> Yes. >> I move to appoint Lynn Plefner as member of the Affordable Housing Trust Fund Board of Trustees until June 30th, 2026, unless sooner revoked or successor is appointed. >> So, you're nominating Lynn Plefner. Is there a second to that nomination? >> Second.
>> Okay, that's been nominated in a second. Any other nominations, Mr. Matters? >> Um, I move to appoint Hannah Smith as a member of the Affordable Housing Trust Fund Board of Trustees until June 30, 2026, unless soon a voter or a successor is appointed. >> Is there a second to that?
>> I'll second that. >> That's been moved and seconded. Any other nominations? I'm going to nominate Annne Ryan for this as a member of the affordable housing trust fund board of trustes until June 30, 2026 and since unless Senator Dr. Ces appoint is there a
second to that >> I'll second it for for consideration but a courtesy. Okay, I'll be up. >> No. >> No, you can't because it's for board discussion only. Sorry, Carolyn. Okay.
So, are there any other nominations? Well, we have three nominations. Lynn Flaffner, Hannah Smith, and Anne Ryan. >> I'd like to nominate Katherine Sher. >> Katherine Sher. Is there a second to that? No second. Okay.
There are three. Okay. I will ask for a vote now on um whom you would um vote vote to place in this position. Miss Davis. >> Uh Lyn Plefner. >> Um Mr. Dykens. >> Lyn Plener.
>> Mr. Matters. >> Um Miss Smith. >> Um Mr. Smith. Sorry. I'm sorry. >> Anna Smith. And there's no relation. >> Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith votes Smith. And the chair votes an Ryan. So there's no
one wins the three. No one gets three votes. So uh we'll ask for nominations for a second round. I'm not going to nominate Miss Ryan again. >> Mr. Chair, I nominate um Lyn Plener. >> Second. >> Lyn Plener is nominated and seconded. Any other nominations? Mr. Meadows.
>> I nominate Hannah Smith. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second that. >> Okay. No other nominations. I'm not going to offer any. All right. I will call the vote again. Please vote for the person to fill this
position. Um, Miss Davis, >> Lyn Plener, >> Mr. Dykins, >> Lyn Plener, >> Mr. Meadows, >> Hannah Smith, >> Miss Mr. Smith, >> Hannah Smith, >> and the chair votes Hannah Smith. >> Okay. So, um, well, I guess I'll offer
the motion. And I move I move to appoint Anna Smith as a member of the affordable housing trust fund board of trustes until June 30th, 2026 unless sooner revoked or successor is appointed. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Call of the role on that. Miss
Davis I or no. >> Say that again. What was the motion? >> This is to formally appoint um >> Hannah Smith to >> No. >> Um Mr. Dykens. What are we doing now?
>> I'm I we we've >> This is the formal action of the formal action to appoint Hannah Smith. She's been voted three to two to be the person, >> but I thought >> Oh, no. No, no. >> Okay. Mr. Matters >> I.
>> Mr. Smith >> I. >> And the chair votes I. So Hannah Smith is appointed 3 to two. Okay. >> Can you say the term in your motion? >> Yes, that is in the motion June 30th, 2026. until solless revoked her successor is appointed. And the next item is the town manager's monthly
report. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. The hour is pretty late, so I'll I'll go pretty quickly and certainly answer any questions if you have any. We launched our new uh town website early in September with some popular links, including one area that
gets a lot is why is the flag at half staff. So, there's a link for that. We've always had it on the website. We just made it clearer and easier for people to get to. And then um our ADA Americans with Disabilities Act renov renovations at 549 have been completed
for the town clerk's office and the treasure collector's office. Um that's for the customer service area, the counter areas. And then our years of service looking forward to October. Um we have uh Jeff Phillips, our police
officer at 17 years. Aaron Hmanan, our police dispatcher, 16 years. Nick Rouier, firefighter, 15 years. So, quite a lot. Renee Gagny as the shellfish constable for 14 years. Um Dale Kelly, who you saw tonight, uh 10 years, and
she's, as you know, retiring in December. And yeah, and Katie Donovan has been here for nine years, director of community development. Paul Whiteitman, conservation agent, eight years. Megan D Downey, our HR director, five years. Uh Charlie Chapparel's
police officer and school resource officer for three years. Sory Bankston, he's with our projects and operations team two years. David Caruso, paramedic, firefighter one year. And then Cali Burnham, who's also a firefighter EMT. She was actually a Monai Regional School
intern with the FD. So that's great. And they have two more interns coming in as well. And then uh Steve Santos is our new hireer for the DPW grounds cemeteries um labor. And then we have our health inspector um Andrew Grover. Um he is
replacing Oh my god, it just escaped me. Um our previous health inspector, sorry it's late. Um who um had left to go work for an engineering firm. And so Andrew is a town resident and we're really excited to have him and his expertise. And then
we had a promotion, Don Richardson, to be our heavy equipment operator and vehicle mechanic. And then um we're still recruiting for the uh behavioral health community service clinician, DPW engineering technician, and um I think
uh still with the boat operator, marine mechanic. It's been advertised as well. Um little short on my end on this report, but certainly the rest of the report Kathy has indexed the various items for projects. You'll see a lot of pictures uh throughout the monthly
report and I am happy to answer any questions. >> Thank you. I I want to commend the the photographs. I I don't know whether they initiate with the the department head who submitted the report or whether it's um Shauna or Kathy or a combination of
all of you including yourself. But I particularly found it helpful in reading the Department of Natural Resources report which previously to me always came across as a little dry. Um, and it was nice to see those pictures. It really piqued my interest. I know that
the DPW has had photos in there for some time and they've added some more here uh on the Fish Pier and um and uh the um boat house and so forth. So, >> especially we're talking about bulkheads, not everyone knows what it
is. So, I thought >> So, anyway, any any comments to Jeff? >> Thank you, Dean. Uh, I do have a comment. I I too I agree on on the pictures and the detail here, the and the pageionation back to the projects is excellent. I do have uh some concern and
concerns concerns have been raised by the mouth of Bucks Creek for dredging. And we talk about on lady's co, we talk about stage harbor channel, we talk about off minister's point, but Bucks Creek is not getting a flush. There's there's very little tidal flow there that you don't see any change in tide.
And there's a shellfish hatchery there, a town hatchery there, and it's not getting the flush. I had a brief conversation with Renee. She'll probably bring it up later, but I know these things take in an extraordinary amount of time to get permitted. So, I'd like to put it on the table sooner rather than later that bucket needs some
attention. I'm ready to go down there with a shovel at the mouth. >> Okay, we'll do. >> Okay, take that. >> Any other comments on the report? Okay, I'll entertain a motion. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded to adjourn. Miss
Davis, >> I. >> Mr. Dykins, >> I. >> Mr. Matters. >> Hi. >> Mr. Smith. >> I. >> And the chair votes I. We are adjourned at 8:39 p.m. Good night.
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