[Music] Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the October 7th, 2025 meeting
of the Cadam Select Board. Please note, this meeting is being recorded and will be available shortly hereafter for scheduled and on demand viewing on any smartphone or tablet device. If anyone else is recording the meeting, please notify the chair. Seeing none, pursuant
to Governor Healey's March 28th, 2025 signing of chapter two of the acts of 2025 extending certain COVID 19 measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions over the open meeting lawsuits general laws chapter 3A section 20 until June 30th,
2027. This meeting of the Cadam Select Board is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to this meeting while in
progress may do so by calling the phone number 158-945-4410 conference ID 23203 203 386491 pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft Teams through the link in the
posted agenda. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Chattam TV Xfinity channel 1072, despite our best efforts, we may not be able to provide real-time access. We will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as
soon as possible. First item of business is to establish a quorum. Miss Davis present. Mr. Dykins, Mr. Matters. Mr. Smith present. Uh first item uh of business is public announcements and agenda item requests. any from the board. I think Mr. Smith,
you had something. Yes, thank you. Uh, thank you, Dean. Um, I I just wanted to pass and I spoke with um Randy Potach and she asked uh that I just make a brief announcement that um she's saddened to leave the Assembly of
Delegates. Uh but she's got some commitments, increasing commitments at uh Cape Mediation where I guess she uh spends a lot of time and um that if anybody in the public is interested in um
applying for the uh position, she's happy to uh answer any questions that uh any of us might have. Thank you. We appreciate appreciate that. She has done a superb job u as a delegate and um we appreciate her service. and the other from the board.
Any from the public? The chair has an announcement. I wanted to uh make clear what the reasoning and purpose for calling this special meeting of the select board is. We were not scheduled to have a meeting this evening. This has to do with the
Sefell project. The town staff and Sefell project team have come to a decisional point regarding how best to proceed with the design work that is an essential component of the bid documents. The design concept had priced the
project out at $5 million, but formal estimates a formal estimate came in at $2.6 million higher. The project team have been working on design revisions to support an estimate closer to the earlier conceptual projection. I was
apprised of an overage on September 12th when staff asked for my okay to pause the expected move of COA activities to the community center on October 6th which I gave. All select board members were informed and arrangements were put
in place to notify the COA board which met the following Monday and to schedule a meeting with the town's consultants for myself and vice chair Dykins who agreed to participate. That hybrid meeting took place on September 23rd. The consultants discussed the design and
pricing issues and additional information was being provided to the estimators with a final estimate expected shortly thereafter. However, on October 1st, a second hybrid meeting was called and we were informed that final estimates would not become available
until later this month. Town staff and project and the project team presented a recommendation on how to proceed and I felt it appropriate as did my colleague Mr. Dykens and the town manager to bring this matter to the full board for public discussion and determination.
Given the call of this special select board meeting, I have added two additional items that I believe merit timely consideration. With that said, uh the next item of business is public comments on the business agenda. We will entertain contemporaneous public comment on all three items, but if anyone is not
not planning to be here, then I will give them an opportunity to speak now. Seeing none, let's proceed to the first item of the business agenda, which is the center for active living renovation project. An update and a vote is anticipated. I will turn now to the town
manager to u give us u some background and refer to the appropriate speaker at the podium. Thank you Jill. Thank you Mr. Chair and thank you for your comments. Um, tonight it's respectfully requested that the board concur with the project team's recommendation to proceed with option
one to keep the project moving forward in a manner consistent with the primary design objectives of the project proposed in the conceptual plan by pursuing the bid inhand approach. We have a staff reporting in your packet
along with the most recent um renderings that were prepared by the town's designer and architect Kurt Raver of Catalyst who is here this evening as well as tonight invited our owner's project manager Rick Pomeroy of Pomeroy
Associates who I will now turn it over. Uh other team members include Terry Whan, who you know is our projects and operations administrator, and Leah Lacrosse, who's our director of community services. And again, thank you for outlining the timeline for us. If I could just interject, I forgot to
mention my intention is to let the consultants and staff make their presentation, then turn to the board for comments and questions, then we will open it up to public comment and questions. We proceed. Thank you. Good evening. Uh Richard Pomroy Pomroy
Associates were acting as the owner's project manager on behalf of the town of Chadam. And um this the design process began in earnest in um June July of this year. And the first steps for the
project were to do a deep dive in the existing conditions of the facility and uh take that information and develop it into the um documents uh for design. And um there weren't many surprises. Uh
but uh the structure was uh namely an area that we found a number of areas that uh you know may may need more than originally anticipated from my understanding and uh took that information and the design documents progressed
in um late July. The documents were at a position where uh they could be estimated from a schematic design level. And there are three different levels of design. There are four different levels of design. Um early concept or feasibility, which is what uh you
utilized uh to support the town meeting uh vote last year. schematic design which is uh when you when you take the information from say an existing facility you start working it towards your project program and you start to developing the design to a point where
you can meet operationally and make sure that it works for staff. Design development is when you after at the end of schematic design you typically will do a test estimate to see if you're tracking uh where you anticipated tracking from your
feasibility. Uh after schematic design is design development which is enriching the documents uh creating more detail still refinement uh making changes uh so you get to your ultimate uh final design. At the end of design development
you do another test estimate and everything everything megs out. You move into the construction document phase. in the construction document phase is when all of the full detail is incorporated into the documents and there's a lot of detail that's necessary
for the contractors to properly bid the project. If you bid the project any sooner than that, your chances are of um higher than normal um u cost uh proposals because there's not enough information to provide a refined bid um
change orders. uh the state statute requires that a a professional set of construction documents be created. So the estimate that we have in hand at this point was at the completion uh sort of halfway between schematic design and design development. When that came back
it was uh much higher than what was originally uh anticipated from the concept of feasibility uh perspective. uh the team immediately went back and looked at what had changed if anything uh from the original concepts uh to the
drawings to the documents that we had at that level. We also looked at um any um any modifications that may have uh been made to the project beyond what was originally anticipated for the betterment of the operations. Um we also
looked at materials. Uh we looked at the structure. Uh we started refining the mechanical and electrical systems. Um to uh to understand where those numbers were uh where they may be high, where they may be low. Uh we worked through that process. Uh we received the
estimate uh the end of a August. uh and uh we went through that process for the majority of September uh looking through uh different options as to uh where we where we may detect where the estimate may have over emphasized a component uh
or underestimi emphasized component uh and what could change through all of those efforts. Um you know the the estimators are saying look we need more information and more time uh are anticipated uh we
were anticipating have the having the second estimate back um two weeks ago now and uh the estimator a week ago and the estimators just indicated they just needed more time they needed more detail from the engineers. So, uh, where we're at right now is, um,
Catalyst has provided more detail to the estimator and they're continually as the the documents are progressing, uh, they are providing more estimates to the estimators and we anticipating having that back at the end of this month. Um,
where we're at right now is we can we can look at it and say, "Okay, just stop. Just stop until we figure out where this next estimate comes in." Um, so that we can get a barometer as to really where this budget is as compared to what was
approved. And that's uh certainly a logical step to make. Um but what we've been finding in the industry lately is that the best and most accurate estimate is a bidden hand. Um and the uh you know we've had
so many fluctu fluctuations in uh escalation over the last seven years. We've seen some years that we had escalation double digits almost 15%. We've seen other years where they were just under 10%. We're riding right around now with escalation factors four
to 5%. We're things are settling down. U but the estimators are still still remain conservative because they don't know with the looming tariffs, they never really know where they're going to uh where the where the numbers are going to fall. They could estimate a project
today and uh you know something spooks the system and materials or suppliers and the numbers go through the roof the next day and we've all seen what's been happening um down in Washington DC. So um the uh we've been a number of
projects very successfully in the last couple of months. Um and both projects have come been considerably below estimate. Uh because what we're seeing is that the estimators are being very conservative because they're trying to protect our client and we have
contractors who are very hungry right now and they want to get a job for the winter or for the for the next year. So uh Lakeville is a very good example of that. We just received our bids in on that a couple of weeks ago and uh we're considerably below estimate almost 15 to
20%. So um you estimators don't have a magic ball. Um they they they uh they look at what the industry trends are. They look at recent bids and then they make their best judgments. So that's why I say that's why we were when we were talking our last meeting that really the
the best evaluator of cost right now is getting the contractors to bid it and whatever what they're willing to build the building for is really what the number is. Uh whether it be high or low uh that's what the number is. So, in our
last meeting, we talked about stopping and um continuing to estimate or moving forward in getting the drawings out on the street and get them to bid. Um also, um during this process, uh it was a very
very difficult recommendation for us to make um and very very difficult for u for the council on aging, but uh we didn't feel it was it was advisable to move. uh you you can't move until you know you have a project. Um so it was a
very difficult conversation and I know that it was it was hard. Uh but until we know we have a project going forward, moving to a temporary location uh just didn't seem to make any sense. We feel very confident that we can assemble uh
the resources to make a move efficient and quick once we know that we have a project that's going forward. Uh so what we had presented uh rather long-winded I apologize uh was uh those uh two options uh for the the the consideration of the
select board this evening and we Kurt Raber is here from Catalyst Architects. I'd like to let him walk you through uh where we are right now with the documents uh give you a good view of the of the product that's in hand and uh
then we can discuss the options if that's okay. Uh yeah, maybe at the end we can we can talk we can show those too. Okay, great. All right, so now we um this is a Hi. Hello again. My name is Kurt Raber, uh partner and architect at Catalyst
Architecture and Interiors in Yarmouthport. Um happy to be back here tonight to kind of show you the current uh an excerpt from the current set of drawings. Um as of today we have um including all of our
um civil engineering, structural engineering, mechanical, fire protection, electrical drawings. We've assembled um 96 drawing sheets. Um but this is only nine of uh of the architectural pieces. And I wanted to uh
at least kind of show you um where we are relative to the uh concept design that was presented u you know almost a year ago. Um, so this is the cover page um of our drawing sets to date and it shows the blue section in the front is
uh the entrance addition uh which was part of the concept plan. Um and in there is actually now one office, the entrance vestibule, a coat room and a table and chair storage room adjacent to the function room which I'll show you in
the plan view. Um, also included um in this uh uh set of drawings still is the dormer over the right side uh of the building and on the first floor if you're familiar with the building that's the uh seal admin offices and they'll
remain there but we did present a dormer previously and that is still in the project. Similarly, this dormer on the right side of the left wing of the building um does not exist today and and an important part of the project because
what it does is it it it really adds about 25% more space to the um room upstairs which is called the media room. Um and also in the schematic design was an addition to the first floor room. So
this kind of leanto salt box shape over here um on the left side was part of the original concept design and is still part of the plan. Um I'll go quickly through these architectural plans but I think we'll then um I'll go a little further and get
to the furniture plans which I think show the context of how the building will be used a little bit better. Um, again this is the basement and um over here from my arrow left into this new stair and this basement space
becomes a new storage space and that's underneath the addition to the function room or the dining room above. Um, this is a crawl space or an unexavated basement uh space underneath the new entrance addition. And I wanted to point
out that when we were here with the concept design, it was envisioned that the senior day program would um be fit up in this east uh end or right end of the building. Come to find out through the schematic design process
that the the occupancy level and the number of people that aren't going to be served in the program um that it really wouldn't quite fit here. We also uh a new program director has been hired to be and administrate um this program. So there's an office here that actually has
a conference space for consulting with family of the clients of the senior day program. So we moved the senior day program and now it it will inhabit sort of this lower lobby, the office space and the e what was the exercise room.
So, we've transplanted these two spaces as a result of the senior day program going in here. We've advocated for leaving this structural column in place. That was a core part of the schematic design or the concept design was to
remove the obstructions of columns in the building mostly on the basement level, but also one very important one on the main level. So, we're proposing to leave this one because the structural work to make that column go away was is dramatic and pricey. Um, so that's one
of the VE uh value engineering moves that we've proposed uh to to get this project back on budget. Um, at the other end of the building, the exercise room will now be down on this end. And we proposed to take out three columns because our engine structural engineers
have been through the building top to bottom. We found out that moving this column became very problematic and we would have to thread a huge piece of steel into the building from this point all the way back to by this door. Um, by
just leaving that column and putting a new beam in and that takes out two columns, this becomes a fully functional exercise room with one pier in it. Um so that's the uh
major changes there. Uh main level um as I mentioned before the design had evolved and included extensive work in the kitchen which we've was not part of the concept design. So we've pulled that back out. Um we had a major overhaul in
the office wing where we were moving every wall to get four exactly the same size offices. What that did was it took out bearing walls and it required us to reframe the first floor and the second floor. So, we've simplified the design
to use the existing structure in the building and not disrupt it. Um, as I mentioned, there's a little lobby uh addition out here in front of the building and that has four parts uh which is the outreach counselor's office and after meeting with staff they wanted
to have an office where someone could meet with clients directly from the lobby. um but also after the doors closed be able to interact with staff. So this was the perfect little knuckle to have a a two door office um a vestibule uh coat room which we don't
have in the building today and a table and store uh table and chair storage room because currently when this room changes over from one function to another, staff has to fold up tables, roll them down the hall to the elevator, take them downstairs for storage. Same
with some chairs. Um so it's a in-depth a really uh tedious task again and again and again um each week. Uh we are removing a significant column in the building here with a new piece of steel through the building and then there's a
second beam being added here to support the current existing second floor wall because this where my arrow is is actually a bearing wall now. So, we're taking that end wall of the building out to make this room bigger so that we can
have um full occupancy for lunchons and meals and and other functions. Um, on the second floor, we've really distilled it down to the dormer on the east end, a modest renovation of the
library area, a new dormer in the activity media room, and then the addition extends to this second floor uh because it's it includes the new enclosed fire stair and it also had be home to the Shine Office. a dedicated
space for that volunteer consulting work that's so important. Um, if I quickly go over the elevations again, this is a set of working drawings. So, where you see texture on the wall, uh, we're adding
new wall surface. um whether it's uh shingles or hardy plank, we've designed a resilient, durable, easy to take care of exterior finish for every surface that we're touching. Um, of course, if we have some contingency money um at the
end of this job, there's other surfaces that are shown blank and white that we don't plan to touch in the base bid. Again, just to control the cost of that that base contract. If we could, we might add some additional siding and trim work to the building, but that's a
what if. Um around the back of the building, much of the existing rear of the building is going to remain as is. Um this is the addition with um office space and the new uh enclosed uh egress stairwell on
the left end or west end of the building. And again, this is the west elevation. And today there's a two-story deck there uh with some sort of wobbly railings and a little ramp that comes down. We are replacing the ramp because this is vitally important to the Meals
on Wheels program. There's hand trucks with materials going in, carts and hand trucks going with coolers going out to volunteer drivers, cars who will be in the driveway and they'll be loaded to and from this ramp. Um I'll go this is
the basement plan. You can see that these uh tables here in the senior day program um are enough seating for uh 15 um uh there' be 12 to 15 participants or clients in the center and four to five
staff. Um this is the layout of the fitness room with some existing exercise equipment at this end of the building and then enough room for chair yoga, mat yoga um and other things. So this lobby becomes the receiving area for the senior day program. the director's
office and a conference table upstairs in the main function room. We've got dining seating um for 48 people shown here and there could be a lectturn at one end of the other. We've got a solid wall at this end of the
building which could have a monitor for pres video presentations. Um and then in the um office space, we're using the two existing offices, creating two new offices with non-bearing walls. Um and then in the
middle of the building, we're fitting up uh the entrance lobby with a new reception desk. And over on this side, there's kind of a waiting area and congregating area with the coffee bar is being moved from this hallway, which is often congested and people bumping into one another. And if there's a a
wheelchair or somewhere with a walker and a group coming in and out, it becomes very very tight in here. So, we decided to take that congestion point in that um uh retraction of the coffee bar and put it back here in the lobby where people can use it and congregate
together. Um up on the second floor shows the media room um with uh the movie seating. Um but this can be configured in a number of ways. Um, we've got the library space, card table space, a new uh room over here, which
can be a card room, a craft room, uh, or a separate meeting room. Um, and that's shown with a table for six there, but it could be easily 10. Um, or it could be three small four squares for a bridge tournament or a cribage tournament. Um,
and then over in the east wing, we're making the um, the dormer. will be adding about 8 ft in length um to the conference room with a window and we've doubled this space as the staff um lunch
and staff break space. Um so we're adding a countertop with an undercounter refrigerator, microwave um and and coffee pot here. So that's a instead of creating another new space in the building and losing program space where this conference space is going to have
multiple functions. Uh the friend's office also gets about uh six feet uh wider with a full height ceiling and plenty of room for file storage um and a window which they don't have. Um so
lot like the concept design. Some of the things that we started to add through the schematic design process we've stripped back out. Um those were nice additions. They were nice to have, but we've reverted back to the core elements
that were approved by the board back in January. Um, I can go into more detail with these drawings if when you have questions. Thank you, Kurt. Um, I have a couple of questions then I'm going to turn to my colleagues. So, with respect to the columns,
how many are going to remain? And you you mentioned two. One is on the basement floor. Is that just in the basement? In this room, uh, the exercise room, we were going to take three. We're now going to take two out. Okay. And there's be a piece of steel from
this existing column over to the wall, allowing this remaining space to kind of be open in an L-shape. So, the column that remains is where the arrow is right now. Yeah. That black does that does that go through all three floors? It doesn't. It does go up and support a
structural beam that supports uh a the wall through the center of the office space. The first floor. Yeah. And then that wall supports the second floor and the roof. Okay. And you there was another column in the on the first floor
exercise room. I'm sorry, in the function room, main function room. Yes. Uh this I'll just point out before I change floor plans that this column exists today and we're proposing to leave it because moving it is troublesome structurally and because the
program here is not an exercise room anymore. It's the senior day program which allows for the it's going to be set up with those three or four tables for eight people. Okay. Four days a week. Um, so and that column only is visible
that only goes from the basement slab to the to the ceiling there. Okay. The the column that is coming out, the most dramatic one is the one that's in the center of the current dining room. That will be going away. Okay. And um along with removing the whole
rear wall of the dining room, we get to stretch that room 8 ft. So no no columns will remain in the in the no columns in that room at all. And is that it for the columns that was Yeah, there's one other column here. Oops, I went too far in the lobby. Um,
and that also supports a major structural beam that holds up the second floor. Uh, and go that goes right up into the attic where there's another beam that holds the attic floor. Uh, so taking that out proved to be very troublesome. Um, and so what we've done
is we've integrated it instead of it being a column in the middle of the floor, we've put a half wall there and behind it is the coffee service counter. Okay. And that kind of divides the room into two halves, the welcome side and the waiting side. Okay. Uh next on the subject of the
siding, uh those areas of the exterior that you are touching and mainly the the front center part uh you're suggesting that still could be cement board or hardy board rather than Yes. And we've rather than this
afternoon we uh um we're drafting up our application to the historic district because this building is in the district. So we'll be going there. We'll be filing uh I think by Wednesday of next week. Um, and we are have we'll we'll attach literature on Hardy Plank or Certainteed. It'll be one of those
two. Um, great durable products. I put Hardy Plank on my house 15 years ago. Factory finished. Still looks brand new. Um, we we do it uh almost all the time now. Much more durable than cedar shingles, obviously. Yeah. Right. Because the the finish kind
of stays looking new for at least 15 years. and shingles in in Chadam will look old in three years. The the last question is uh we didn't touch on this, but I know in our conversation at one of our Zoom sessions, the subject of the parking
area came out came up and I think um Rick, you talked about it, but maybe Kurt, you'd like to talk about it. The we currently have 36 parking spaces there, right? And the the design concept the concept was to bump that up to 48 and
that required some reworking of the parking arrangements on our property and with the condo association. Right. And um sorry, go ahead. No, I just going to say that that is the the the cost of that is somewhat
significant and um it's depending on what the estimators come in at, right? There's a possibility that we could wind up with a a cost in the range of I'm I'm just hypothetically throwing
it out of $5 million plus for for the building, but the parking arrangements if we wanted to bump the parking up would be an additional piece of change that we might have to go back to meeting. Our our intention is to draw the parking
lot improvements um in two pieces. One is sort of the base bid, the work that has to get done to facilitate the additions, including the handicap ramp and some modification of the front driveway with a new sidewalk in front of it so people can
get to the door. Um, and our civil engineer is working diligently on that. I did, his plan is bit of a draft right now, so I didn't want to show it incomplete. Um, we're proposing that the parking area on
the right side of the building, the east end, which is now currently black top and it kind of has a, you know, scurve that ends up in the neighbor's property. And actually, some of the neighbors deeded parking spaces are on the town parcel. We proposed a design that kind
of makes a simple rectangle-shaped parking lot on that side. Um, and it disconnects the drive-thru to the neighbor. We have to improve a couple of spaces on their property, but then all their parking will be on their property.
Um, and the town's property will, you know, parking will be kind of separate. Um, and the fact that the parking lot will be rectangular and all the spaces will be the same size and orthogonal to one another, it'll be easier to drive in and park in and, you know, come and go
from. Uh we believe it does have a um a heavy price tag. Um we're proposing that the work on the right side of the building, we're going to surround that with a bubble and get a second price on that as an ad alternate
just so that we know what it is. Um in the in my estimator is pricing that separately. Um there's also been some discussion amongst the working group of whether that site work package could actually be bid separately away from the
general construction contract and avoid 20% markup that the general contractor would put on that work. Um but the work that will happen in the base bid over on that area which is now just kind of the free-for-all parking in the grass, we
are proposing a new leeching bed there. um because there is new septic flow and new occupancy in this building and we only have a couple of um old uh uh drain pits, leech pits there. So, we are proposing to build a new leeching for the septic over there under that grass
in that base bid. We'll cover it with 12 inches of gravel, which will be good to park on for some time. in the alternate price will pave the entire project, add some street lamps um and a couple of landscape islands with trees. Um, but
we're we're hoping that that area, if we have to, we could reserve that off to the side and hopefully in couple weeks when we get the estimate back, we'll know where that stands um as the base project, including the site work in front of the building and on the left
side, which is a critical delivery and drop off area for the senior day program. That'll be in the base contract. The improvements on the right side of the building would be that alternate price. Thank you. Um, well, I think it's important that we do whatever we can to
bring the parking up to the 48 spaces because we're going if we're going to invest 5 million or whatever in the building and not have and just have 36 spaces, that's not great, right? Um, on the left side, you uh what is the
arrangement regarding um the ability of a bus or the the the vans? We're doing a little expansion of the paved area on the left side and down at the bottom sort of at the bottom of the hill. We're going to create a little um turnout to
the right that it is goes behind the new addition. And that's a space that's big enough. It'll be probably cross-hatch painted with a sign that says um shuttle van parking only. um right behind it across on the back side of the parking lot will be an an area again no parking
for that van to back up so that it can do a K turn and and leave without backing up the hill. Um but we are increasing the parking on that side of the building I believe from nine spaces to 13. Okay. And just finally um just to
establish this point the estimators are not part of your firm. They're an independent firm, right? They I retained them. Um but they are an independent cost estimator that we've used multiple times um recently with good success. Okay.
Um and I think Rick's working with them on another project as well. Okay. Thank you. Turning to um colleagues on the board with questions or comments. Jeff, thank you Dean and thank you gentlemen. Um, you know, for me, uh, you know, I think I totally agree with you that the
best way to understand what this renovation is going to cost is to get it to bid as soon as possible. So, conceptually and philosophically, I think I'm in agreement with with that route. Otherwise, we're, you know, relying on estimators that I think you have some faith in, but um, you know, I'm I'm a little aruck that came back
$2.6 million north of what we had originally planned for. So, so, uh, let's see where they the the plans that they're estimating are exactly what you just showed us, right? Yes. This is from that same set. Okay. Um, and, um, we had, um, the set that we
had kind of released at the schematic level. um had a lot more embellishments on it, you know, different finishes, taking out more walls, taking out more columns, and there was a set of structural drawings that went with that that I think that the estimator said, "Wow, you're you're really tearing into
this building." So, we've simplified that. Um and I just by picking through that estimate and attacking the um the big numbers in that estimate, we were able to identify the things that we
believe um uh cost a lot and we were able to simplify those things. So, we're confident that we've moved the number at least. Um, and out of the overall project, um, it's by my calculations, I'm trying to get the
construction budget down, um, from 46 to 3.2, so $1.4 million. Um, before I gave the drawings to the estimator, I went through it and I checked off the things in his estimate that I thought I had altered enough. And I some in some
cases I struck lines out of the estimate and other times I said well this is 25% of the work or 50%. So by my own calculations I know that we're close to a million saved out of the 1.4. We'll see what the estimate comes back at the
end of the month. Um and hopefully with the refined mechanical drawings which have also been simplified um and the refined uh structural drawings we'll see that construction number uh fall in in the range of 1.4 to
1.5 million and that'll put us on budget. Wasn't totally surprised by the numbers coming back north of what we planned. To be honest with you, I think the markets have been very much in an uproar. Supply chains have been in an uproar. Tariffs are unpredictable. um what's happening in Washington dayto-day is
unpredictable. So, I'm sure estimators are being very conservative. Again, the the best numbers we're going to get is when we when you have your construction documents finished and they go out to bid and we got a response from those. Quick question on the columns programmatically. Are the columns that
remain okay from a programmatic standpoint? both uh or or I mean um I think we need I'd like one of the reasons why I think we got comfortable with this plan initially was we were getting rid of the columns that had sight lines and and the inability to
move stuff around and and get enough tables etc in the areas we want to get them for dining and activities. So I would like to hear that uh in fact you're comfortable with this or not as the case may be. Thanks. Excuse me. Good evening. Leah Lacrosse um director community services the
columns u that they are uh keeping in that we've decided to keep in do not have an impact. The biggest impact uh the column with the biggest impact is the one in the dining room and that is coming out. that um was a huge um
impedment for programming and for allowing people to have a to be able to place another table having it be right smack in the middle of the room. So, that's huge. Um the one in the day program, we have uh I've met with the
director of the day program. We've looked at the seating charts and there is still plenty of room for our maximum amount of participants and maximum amount of staff that we would have in the exercise room. Um, same thing. The one column that remains doesn't uh
impede anything. So, I'm with all the changes. Um, I'm good with it. We've we've looked around. We've done a lot of work. Okay. That's good to hear. I mean that again we we emphasize the removal of the columns when we kind of when we approve this plan. So I think it's important to
hear that it's going to work what we're left with here. Um I think this it really highlights just how difficult it is to renovate an older structure especially a structure that was never originally planned to be um you know a council on aging or
for active living um you know was an office building. And hey, we've done a great job. I think you guys and and everybody's done a great job living with it and working with it. And hopefully we can pull this off at a reasonable cost uh at some point going forward. Um at some point, Dean and folks, I'd like to
review if we choose the option one, for example, um what the timets are. I think folks want to hear that and should know what the time frames are and what the scheduling might look like and what we're doing with the programming during construction when it occurs.
Sure. Do you want to talk about the timeline and I'll talk about program? And I don't know if there's any nuances between both options, but if there's one that's salient and important, I think folks ought to know. So what we have in front of us right now
is option one and that's kind of where we stand today and the goal is um to work on a parallel track while uh the estimate is um being refined but
continue the construction document phase that I described earlier and get the uh the project complete from a design perspective and out on the streak. We have a target date to accomplish that of uh November
14th. Um meeting that date, we would anticipate a contract award. Remember, we have Thanksgiving and New Year's and Christmas in between. Uh we anticipate a contract award target of uh the 7th of
January. And we'll put together an aggressive set of specifications with regards to um the contractor and starting. In other words, if you submit a bid and we award to you, we expect you to start within a certain period of time. Um, we'd like to see a
construction start by the 15th of uh January. We're looking at about eight months of construction. That puts us midepptember for uh an occupancy target. Um, we will know, you know, we didn't we
didn't add any bullets in here. to say as an example, if the bid comes in over budget, we would have to plan for a special town meeting or to make some decisions on how to award um if the project were to go forward. So, what we would be need to we
did need to needle into this um schedule would be um I would my recommendation would be anticipate it comes in over budget um and get a schedule uh special meeting special town meeting scheduled. you can always cancel it. Um but if you wait
until you get the bids and then try to schedule it, you're losing time. Um needle in a special town meeting just after um the uh bids are in. And um assuming that uh if if it is over
budget and the town supports it going forward, we immediately start mustering up the forces. We get everything lined up from a move perspective. We know what we need to do. uh we'll have everything lined up and uh we'll uh get that squared away.
You know, the contractor may not be able to start that quickly depending upon timing. We you know, when we put this together, it was uh we're just uh trying to look at what is what is uh what is a realistic from a bidding perspective. Um, having looked at it
this morning again, you know, we probably should have thought about where the town meeting and the move fit into this, but uh, without the town meeting and the move fit in. We're looking at a September occupancy. Just wanted to say something about it special town meeting. It's going to
depend. It's one thing to to program it in, but whether we actually have it, it's going to depend on the feeling of this board. Um, based on the magnitude of the overage, you know, if we're talking one and a half, $2 million more, I think
there might be some inclination on me upon some members of this board, myself included, it's a no-go and wouldn't go to town meeting. Um but if it's something more reasonable um then you know I I think u there might
be some justification. I just really wanted to clarify that so there wouldn't be some sense that there's an automatic calling of a town meeting but I understand you might want to put it in the calendar. Um Jeff, I'm sorry. I'm good. I'm I'm Thanks. I may have others but I'm good after others speak.
Thanks Shireen. Thanks Dean. Um my questions are for the relocation timeline. um you know that it's an eight-month um period of construction that brings it into the summer. Leah, um I know that you've written in um the in the some of the
suggestions that might happen. Could you just speak to the public about that? Sure. Um so Amy and I, uh Amy Howell, deputy director, community services for recreation and beaches, she and I and our teams have been meeting since
February. Um, and February it's been it's been monthly. We have we have completely planned every aspect that you can think of and we've had our staff helping us along the way for things we haven't thought of um we may
not have thought of. We started out by saying you know what Amy's programs are that are absolutely no compromise. Same thing with us. Our day program for instance, it's a no compromise program. We started building and integrating from
there. Um there were some programs that we had to parse out to different um community partners and they were we have been very lucky, very fortunate um that some partners have taken some of our
programs when we need them to um as well as other town locations for for smaller things. So it the summertime I know it's it's not ideal. It is absolutely not ideal.
Not for for me spe especially not for Amy and and all the the summer programs that go on there. However, you know, Amy and I feel um very fortunate. Amy has said to me over and over again, if we
have the time to plan it, we can handle anything. It's if we find out in May that we have to move in June, that's a whole different story. But if we start planning it now, just like we started planning this move before there was even
a town meeting just in case, um, with this much time to plan, we are both confident that we can make it work. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else from the board? Corey, I mean, I'm not going to say a whole lot
at the moment, but it's just I mean, I think we can all feel some of the tension, some of the frustration. I mean, this is not the conversation we wanted to be having. Um, you know, this has been a very, very long road, this project. Um, a lot of history. Um,
and you know, we came in, we had a $5 million number, brought to town meeting, we pulled it out of free cash. um a little disappointed that the 2.6 million wasn't referenced in our in our packet, but it's a number that the board
was each told indiv individually. So, um you know, I guess my concern is when you start whittling away at that, what do you get? And is this is this the facility that the individuals who who have been asking for this for so long is is this
the is this the right the right facility? um as part of this conversation tonight. Um you know, and to Rick's, you know, previous comment, you know, we can move forward in this, but expect it to go up
higher, uh or the bid to be up be up higher. I don't think it's going to drop um because there's so many unknowns. So, it's uh this is not going to be an easy conversation. I'm very interested to see what the um you know certain people in
this in audience who have been you know part of this since day one. I'd really appreciate your input on this um because this is this is going to be a tough decision and I thank you guys for your efforts and everything but this one this is not where we wanted to be for sure. Thank you.
Any other comments or questions from the board? Steuart. Um, I'm the newer person, so I'm my questions you may have already asked or answered some time ago, but uh, just to I I guess I'm disappointed that
the 2.6 million wasn't mentioned in the memo. I'm not sure why. Are we unsure of that number? Why wasn't that? I'm going to take responsibility for that. I met with the town manager. I saw a draft memo and I said don't put the price in there because it is an evolving
number. They are they have been involved in value engineering uh downward from the original initial estimates. That's why I didn't want to alarm the public and say it's you know fixed carved in stone figure. That was my that was my rationale for it.
And so I'll take responsibility for it. I don't I don't think I was an error but I understand you yours and Mr. Matter's comments about it. Thanks. And I appreciate you. Appreciate them. Sure. And the $5 million appropriation. We appropriated $5 million and the
help me out. The est the earlier estimate was 4.8 or six. Did I hear it was pretty close to the five? It was almost because I thought there was 200,000 in uh contingency. Am I mistaken about that? That was within the five within the
estimate. Terry can speak to I know it was within the five, but does that bring the cost estimate down to one 4.6 or 4.8? I'm going to pull my slide up. So there were two components and I'm going to pull up actually the slide that we had a
town meeting. So there um with the soft costs um were estimated around a million and the construction was uh four million to keep keep the math easy. So that the you know within in the soft costs you
have uh the design fees, OPM fees, outfitting the building, the temporary relocation um and other fees with with moving um and did I mention the different relocation fees for uh also, you know,
we have to add temporary power, trailers, those types of things. And the construction component um is um uh basically around um you know we had the the estimate again Kurt I think the constru I'm going to
pull this um slide up So, I don't know why that's not displaying. Derry, do you want to read the groupings as um Chadam TV is coming out? Okay. Yeah. So again, but the the basic, you know, the the the main components of the
budget included the construction hard costs of up to four million and the soft costs were a million. So that's, you know, the the construction cost estimate at the time for just just the building improvements was uh three 3.9 million.
Which one do you want? Because you got two open. Okay. This one. One that just had the Get rid of this. Do you want to save your changes? Um, you wanted to save the changes because I think that is doesn't like it. It's not happy having
two PowerPoints open at the same time. And you close the other one. There it is. So, um, does it's almost difficult where to begin. This is a this is a pretty large increase for
um you know for I know it's renovating an old building. What was this building originally? Is it I believe it was developed as office space. Office space and apartments and apartments.
Yeah. Uh and condos. Yeah. Been a melee of things. So the um so we've had am I getting this straight that it's been about 2
6 million in in uh of of building improvements that we're not going to do uh separate from the parking I guess. Yeah, there's there's certainly things
that were in our schematic set of drawings that were um I would say improvements that were over and above the concept design. Really nice to have. But more more importantly, what what were some of those? Oh, on the like on the second floor,
there's a stair that goes to the attic. And one of the things that staff said is we don't we can't see through the building. Everything is, you know, a little worn and there's no visibility and openness. So, we said, well, we could pull have a pull down stair to the attic and take that stair out. Um, that
would make the stairwell open to the first floor with a railing. So, some of those things that we added that were nice to have, we've taken out. Um similarly when the structural engineer told us that we would be rebuilding the most of the first floor to take out
those columns um and we said well we don't have the budget for that so we have to simplify so we changed the office design so that we have two existing offices and two new offices. Um the addition previously was about nine and a half ft. We've pulled it back to
eight but we can maintain the occupancy for the dining room. So, we've done lots of things to kind of simplify the drawings and get back to only the core elements that were presented in the study. Um, and what's interesting is in this slide, it kind of examines the
numbers. Um, but in our cost estimate, we were putting a project out there. We hoped to cost 2.7 raw construction costs. 2.7 million came in at a little over 36. But when you add on the modifiers
of the contractor's overhead, profit, insurance, um, escalation, and then there was a design contingency in there, um, of 10%. So all those markups swell when the projects bigger. So, we're
we're we've identified um that we've got to this 3.9 number um has to get down back down to 4 million. Uh sorry, it's got to get back down to um
closer to 3.2 million to be on budget. Um yeah. How old is the building? The building uh was built in the mid 80s. Yeah. It's not I mean, at what point at what point do
you you know, you you drive a bulldozer through this building and you start over? I mean, is there a I mean, it it was never designed for this use. We seem to be cutting it back to the things that, you know, I think
maybe are more than nice to have. They seem to be functional to the to the use of the building. As far I mean, every anyone's had a building or a house that has columns in it, you know, right? That's something you like to avoid. Um, so
we really can't equate this project easily to a per square foot cost because there's three there's two dormers and two small additions. Um, but then there's a lot of um, you know, there's over 8,000 square feet of existing
space. So just looking at replacing the existing 8,000 square feet at somewhere between $500 and $600 a square foot will easily replacement would probably cost twice of the renovation project. And do
you expect that um compared to a new building as opposed to renovating this uh do you expect to have the same type of longevity for the use of this building? Because seems to me that a newer building would
last longer. You'd use better materials throughout as opposed to, you know, somewhat superficially. Certainly we are doing finish updates, paint and flooring throughout the building. Um that's still part of the project. The other things that the town has done um recent is the last about a year and a
half ago all the HVAC equipment was uh replaced with heat pump technology. So we're reusing that. We're not pulling that out, discarding it and buying it again. Um, so there's a lot of improvements that have been done and we believe that these renovations would set
this building up for another 30 years of, you know, it's 30 plus years old now and it be, you know, serve the town well for another 30. Um, is there a a whole building generator for this building? There is a generator.
Um, it currently picks up everything. Um but it's not really been tested under the load of full air conditioning. Um my engineers are running some calculations to find out if we can leave all the heat pumps and air conditioning on um the
transfer switch or whether because the building is getting bigger. Um the initial response is yes because we're pulling out a lot of incandescent lighting and doing LED. So we're actually reducing the lighting load significantly as part of this renovation. Um, so existing generator is
going to remain. We're not going to touch it, but we may have to disconnect some things from it. I hope that answers your question. Yeah. And the kitchen, I I heard um you speaking before, what aren't we doing in the kitchen that we were doing? Well, originally we thought, okay, can
we There's a there's a column in there. We can't move. Um, but there's older flooring, there's older cabinets, um, older dishwasher and sink. Um, there's an old gas range. Um, there's a commercial hood in there that seems to
always be on. So, we were going to, um, put some controls in that um, so that it's not on all the time, you know, exhausting uh, um, good air, well conditioned air. um we'd like to pull back from that room um
in our base scope um and in maybe add on as an alternate the replace u refinishing of the cabinets and floors in that room. Um and then the staff would like to replace the gas range with
um an electric one. Um which we do have enough capacity um on the in the building's existing service to do that. Um but that's that's really a a furniture item, not so much a general construction item. So we'll probably do that outside the general construction
cost. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it sounds it it seems to me that some of these uh things that we're taking out of the project we're probably going to be doing, you know, shortly thereafter and if if we have money or we reappropriate money next
year or we tried we've tried to take out the things that are sort of fine. Yeah. Um um but we still there are all the code required you know signage in the building and fire extinguishers and um uh alarm systems sprinkler system
full coverage will be done throughout. So there's all those code improvements will get done. Um things like switching out the stove the range from gas to electric is something that we feel like we can defer or should defer.
Sure. Um, okay. The, um, we chatted about the new building and the kitchen work. Um, some of I I guess some of these other things could wait until our I guess we're going to have a follow-up questions after the public because um
I uh you know I haven't experienced well I've been a town me obviously but I haven't experienced it on the board but um I just hate to uh build a government rebuild a government building and either
reduce its longevity or usefulness when it's, you know, it's somewhat constrained just in constrained just in its design. It's it's kind of hindering. Um I I you know, I I support the project, but I'm wondering whether this
is the is any longer the right direction. Um but I'll have a few more afterwards. Thank you, Dean. Thank you. I just want to ask a question. the the usable space in the building is equivalent to the what was
proposed for 1610 Main Street. We are increasing the space in this building. Maybe that's a question for Rick. We did if you can speak to the reduction and the latest DD set, but they they were very close. Uh that
again Kurt did reference a change in the the footprint to I think is it a foot and a half. So again there were comparable um spacewise and as as Kurt I think showed in the plans you know the the effectiveness of the area is
improved in in the building. So they were both you know slightly north of 10,000 square feet. So and I I think but that does not include Kurt's reduction. So, but I don't know what that reduction is. With with a couple of nip ducks, we've pulled out about 300 gross square feet,
not out of the footprint, but out of all three levels. Okay. Um, and that's mostly in the addition space, which we calculate somewhere around 600 a foot. So, you know, that's it's not that big a savings, but every thing we could do um to um take any
little bit of extra out of the building. Um, and you know, one of the things that I didn't mention in our schematic design, we have the the low pitch roof over the the front entrance, which is new. Um, we were proposing that in the standing sea metal. Um, but we were able
to change the roof pitch by the modified footprint dimensions to get back to a 3 and12 roof pitch, which we can warranty with asphalt shingles, which was another $40,000 item we pulled out of the project in the last month. um that would be nice to have. It would
look, you know, slick and modern and new. Um we don't have to have it. So, we've simplified. Okay. I just as a followup just on the there's no there's no showers here. Did I already ask that?
No shower locker rooms in the existing building or the proposed design, right? I mean, the reason I asked that, I seem to recall, not being intimately involved with it, but that in previous designs at other locations, um there were uh there were showers and
there were uh a generator that ran the whole building and because there was some talk about being able to uh use it for uh a shelter and um we don't seem to be doing that here.
That's correct. 1610 was uh designed as a shelter. Right. Right. And besides those types of amenities like the generator and the you know the showers and what have you. Is there anything intrical to the design of
the building uh between other locations that you worked on and here that would prevent it from being a shelter? Like is is it structurally not uh permitted for that type of use because it's not new or
have to look at the we have to add a shower in. Yeah, we need we need storage space, right? We don't we don't have storage space for the storage of like, you know, emergency CS and things like that, but that might be able to be stored in another building brought here with some
preparation. Um, but the shelter does have, you know, at least a men's and women's room with uh showers um that we probably could find a way to get at least two of the bathrooms um to add a you
know a standup shower in them if if we really want to convert this. It is high and dry. It's not in a flood zone. So it's got that it does have a generator. Um so it can have power sort of around the clock. Um but if it might maybe it's
not a shelter, it certainly can be a um you know a warming station. We already have one of those. Yeah. You know place to go and charge your phone. Um but um um I I it's all right. I just remember that being in an earlier design and I was
thinking, you know, I don't think that that's a nice to have. We still are delinquent in that area here in town in that we don't have one. We use a regional uh that sometimes work sheltering program. Um so
okay, thank you. I just want to add a historical note that if you wanted to put a new building here, I think it would cost upwards of $10 million today. It would have cost about $6 million when I suggested on multiple occasions seven or eight years ago that's the way we
should have gone and I said it then. But the question now is how much money are you willing to put into this building to make it serviceable? because it's clear from town meeting that they don't want a brand new building and they don't want to or they don't want to spend $10
million for one. That's my that's what I took away from the last several meetings. But anyway, having said all of that, I'm going to now turn to the public public comment. And um I would remind everyone that under our public participation policy, three minutes per
person. And I would ask if you could to try to focus on what's before us tonight, which is the recommendation from the project team and the staff to continue with the design work and get it ready for bids or to pause it and
wait for the estimate estimating to come in which of course would delay things even further. I think that's the summation. So, um, Miss Miss Burke, who's the chair of the Council on Aging, I'll go with you first and I'll recognize people as they raise their
hands and as well as online. Welcome, Pat. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Um, [Music] I have a statement. I will be quick. I would just like to preface it with
something that I had not added is my disappointment that we won't be getting what we thought we were going to get, which wasn't what we wanted, but it was going to be a good addition. Anyways, please allow me a little leeway. Um,
good evening. Thank you for having me at this meeting. I would like to thank specifically select board chair Niccastro who convened the meeting and for informing me of what was happening with the CFL renovation. I was able to individually speak to each board member
to apprise them of the happenings. As you are all aware, 48% of the Chattam yearround population is over the age of 60. The CFL is and has become a place for seniors to enjoy as well as receive
needed services. Immediately postcoid, I asked select board chair Peter Kakolas and select board member Dean Niccastro to visit the COA. At the time, I gave them a tour and made it clear to them that if this path, no staff building in disrepair continued, the COA would cease
to exist. Members of the COA board of directors and the friends board of directors began a project to revamp the computer room. With the help of the interim COA director, we were able to utilize an updated meeting room which continues to be used. The first step,
this was the first step in the beginning of updates made by the current director of community services. The initial idea to bring the restit program to Chattam was brought to forth by a former COA board member who had researched and found a g grant. My point in telling you
this is the COA board of directors as well as the friends board of directors are actively engaged in making Cadam a better place for the senior community. The current project was approved in May. It is a standing item on the COA board's
agenda. Last week was the first time I heard from Mr. Niccastro the cost problems that the project was encountering and as we all heard we that happened sometime in August in a town where transparency
is the goal. I can tell you I have searched the town of Chattam and the Sefell website with extreme difficulty in trying to find the plans and updates. I was finally able to find them
late today and saw that the last time the update was made was the update that we received on December 18, 2024 and it was updated in January. As a taxpayer, I find the pattern of
asking for the sum of money at a town meeting and then returning and saying that this isn't enough disturbing. A practice that has happened to the last few projects in Chadam. As a result, I think the time has come for true
transparency. The COA board of directors, the friends board of directors, the select board need routine updates bi-weekly or at least monthly. The updated project needs to be immediately uploaded to the town website
and the CFL website with easy access for everyone. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak. Thank you Pat. Um Ann Ryan. Good evening everyone. Thank you for letting me speak. I'm an Ryan and I am a
member of the COA board of directors. I am really sad, really disappointed, and really discouraged. And I hate feeling this way. I want to be hopeful instead. And I'm having a really hard
time grabbing at something that's going to make me feel a lot better about this. Um, as some of you may know, I was an opponent of the 1610 project. Um, but when this came along, when Selectman
Niccastro suggested this, I was on board immediately. I thought finally we have a solution, a hybrid solution. Maybe not the best one we could have done, but it's something that's doable. It's something where we can get this passed
at town meeting. And we did. When I heard about this, um, I I was blown away. And so, the first thing I did was I wanted to look back and see like at the select board meetings, the
finance committee meetings, um, everything leading up to annual town meeting, where was it said that $5 million might not cover this project? And I can't find
it anywhere. I feel as if this was sold to the voters as something that had the appropriate contingencies included. This was prepared by experts. They know what they're doing. And I felt 100% confident
voting for this because I thought everybody had done their homework and everything had been disclosed. And it seems that may not be the case, but that's behind us now. So now we're going to wait for the
estimates to come in and I'm really worried about that. And I understand if they come in high that we may not be able to go ahead with this project. But one thing that hasn't been mentioned tonight is
there's still a problem with that building. And when we looked at the various concepts for fixing it up, there was I think it was something like 1.4 4 million or something like that just to take care of what they called deferred
maintenance, the broken elevator, and other health and safety issues in the building. So, if we don't go ahead with a plan to renovate this building, what's going to happen? Are we just going to stay there in the existing building with
all of the problems? Are we going to try to raise, you know, 11 million, 15 million to build something somewhere else? I don't know. So from that standpoint, it seems to me that this is still the best course, but there are so many unknowns,
mostly the money and then the timing. It It's just hard to imagine. So, you know, I would really like to see this succeed. I'd like to do everything I can to help that, but um right now, you know, it's
it's a lot darker than I thought it was going to be. So, thank you. Thank you, Ann. Anyone else? Nancy Fields. I'm Nancy Fields. I'm on the COA board as well. Um, two things. First of all, I
wanted to go back to uh Curt's kind of um slipping in there that there's also a um column being left in the kitchen. I noticed that on the uh plans and I was going to raise that question but it came
up before I had a chance to talk. So I guess going to Pat's point about transparency and Ann's point about transparency. I mean I heard you say many times during this meeting that there were you know
three columns being left and the kitchen one in the kitchen wasn't mentioned. So, can we know exactly where all the columns are that are being left? Are there any others in there that we haven't been told about? I think it's two. Is that Kurt, do you
want to answer that question, please? I think it's two, Nancy. Well, it's really three. So, um perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the comp. We never the the concept design didn't take the kitchen column out of
the plan um back in January. Sorry, the um back in December or January December of last year, January when we were presenting the um design for the the concept study there uh we never contemplated removing the column
in the kitchen. Um during schematic design um we said can we get rid of that and we quickly came to find out that it would be very difficult because it supports a major beam on the second floor. Um and so all those engineering
things just kind of uh cascaded and snowballed. Um the the ones in the basement are the worst because they support the first floor which supports the second and then the roof. Um so there is there is one column that's going to remain in the um
senior day program room in the lower level. Um there's one that will remain in the exercise room. Um two others in the exercise room will be removed. The one the biggest problem column is the one in the dining room that is going
away. Um so there's two that are uh sort of in the planned. um in the lobby, but we're integrating that into a new wall, so that won't be floating in the middle of the plan by itself. And then the one
in the kitchen, as I mentioned, um ever promised to take that out in the concept um in the schematic, we considered it, but it became too problematic. Thank you. Uh, the other thing I looked at in in quite a bit of detail was the schedule
milestones for option one. And I went back to the schematic that was in the um annual town meeting materials. And in this schematic, which is what the town, you know, approved or based their
approval on, it says 43 weeks for construction. And I know I can't 43 weeks is about 10 months and um
we keep saying 8 months. So, I don't I don't know what happened to the two months between here and here, but I guess I'm skeptical that um given everything else we've seen that I think this schedule we're fooling
ourselves if we think it can really be achieved. Um, you know, like everything else, the numbers keep changing and that I echo Ann's comments about, you know, this is
all really disappointing. Not only the money, but the time um I think is really problematic. Thanks. Thank you, Nancy. Yes. Uh, and here in front, please. I'm Laura Everett. Laura.
I'm on the COA board. I'm the clerk. So, yes, I'm disappointed. But what brought us here was the fact that we know the town does not have the desire to build a new property. We
keep going around going around the same kind of circle, which is madness. The building needs to be fixed. I trust my colleague Leah and she's worked very hard and trying to figure out how can we
refinish the building, get what we need, and that's exactly what got voted on at the town meeting. They voted on us getting what we need. I think we should go out to bid because I don't know when I was building my house the architect
said I could have all this for like 800,000 and it came back 1.5 and then I found a really good you know builder who worked with me and then it was right in the middle of COVID and he said well Laura you know what if you want to buy
your own kitchen stuff I'll cut out the 20%. I feel like we should be able to find people who can work with us to get this building fixed to get the needs we met and just be like a regular person like, "Okay, we need this place fixed.
We need it. This is our bare minimum. Help us get there." I really feel like that's my experience with my home and I love my little house that went from 2500 25 no 3,000 feet to 1500 and I have everything I need. So, I think we need
to try to do this. And I'm voting to go out to bid and let's get this done and figure out how to get it done because you know what? No one's going to let us build a new building. It's not going to happen. Since 190, they have voted no for this. So, it's
time to just take some action and fix the building and get what we need. Thank you, Laura. Um, gonna go. I I think Brian, you had your Did you have your hand up? Um, Judy Patterson. Hi everybody. Um, I'm Judy Patterson in West Chadam and I agree with everything
all of you have said. I think the lack of transparency here regarding what the town manager has not shared with you and all of you have failed to hold her accountable. There should have been regular reports on what
was going on here. And these poor people should have known this instead of packing the bags or whatever they had to pack. But it's a horrible lack of transparency. And each and every one of you are responsible for not holding these poor people to a
timeline that we had all agreed on as taxpayers. And the town manager needs to accept this, too. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Um, yes. I'm Robin Zebrat and I am president of the friends of the COA. Um,
transparency, y'all blew it. I've sent emails to Mr. Whan. I've talked to several people and it was such a hush- hush discussion with everyone that I'm very irritated as a town's person and as a member of this board. We work a very
hard to maintain um a very happy environment for our elders and right now they are in discombobulation and it's unfair for the people who work there and the people who
go there. Um, one thing I don't think has been covered is how much additional square footage we're getting um with the changes of what um we have now versus what we're getting because it seems to
me that a jump from 5,000 $5 million to $7 million with not any more square footage is a very large number. However, as with as what everyone has said here, we need this
My father and my husband designed the very first building that we are sitting in for a condo back in the 80s. I've been here the whole time. We have been waiting and waiting and waiting. We have been shuffled from building to building
to school to all kinds of places to help our COA have a place. We have been through numerous votes, numerous um drawings, presentations, and we finally have come to agree at least that we can
have this building renovated. And now it's the price has gone so much farther than it ever should have in the short amount of time that since we started this um and we voted on it in May. The other thing that I want to mention
is that I stood up here in one of our previous meetings and said it's never going to happen in the timeline you gave it. I stood up here and said it's not it's not going to happen. And I was assured, oh yes, it's going to happen. We're going to be in our building. We're
all going to be moved and and we're not disrupting anybody else in the community. And that is not happening. I think that option one is an irresponsible choice. I think you need to go to option two and give yourself a
little more time to do it correctly the first time. Thank you. Um Kurt, did you want to just comment on the additional space that we pick up? And I know you indicated earlier that your revisions
are bringing uh reducing it by about 300 plus square feet. Um just I'm looking at some notes on the plan on on my computer that um are not on the set that we have there. Um so the the existing building has a footprint of
just under 2,800 square feet. So, there's roughly 2,800 square feet per floor. Um, and on the first and second floor, we're adding um um just about 950 square feet on each of those floor
levels. And on the third level, we're adding um about I think it's uh I'll go there right now. We're adding 450 square feet. Um, so the the total of the the building is I think about 8,400 square feet existing
and we're adding um over 2500 square ft. Um, so we're going from about 8,400 to well over 10,000. Okay. Um, I did mention before we've nip tucked at the building and that's only about 350 gross square feet of new construction space. We're not
demolishing any of the existing building. Right. Thank you, Elaine Gibbs. Thank you, Elaine Gibbs. Uh, I couldn't prepare any notes because we had no information. It was virtually impossible to do that. Uh, there was only the staff
memo and when you get the plans, you can't see them. When we blow them up, everything's a blur. um transparency. Uh the only reason why we're here tonight in my view is because of the public. Because the only reason why you
were advised of it is because of the public. Because for the last three or four weeks, the public has been hearing rumors wondering why they hadn't broken ground in September, which was like last month. And um
writing emails. I wrote a number of emails three weeks ago and to the various people copying the town manager and asking for specifics and didn't get them. People would say I have no more. I will copy Terry. I had to call Terry. I
had to write Terry. Uh so I think that's what prompted this and that's the only reason why they finally had to tell us what was going on. The fact of the matter is in January the price was 4.6 million. Cory, you found an error. So, it went down to 4.4 because they had
double charged. As we got closer to town meeting, it went up to 4.9. But we were assured, it's not your imagination, we were assured that there was plenty of contingencies in there. 5 million would be enough. And we were to
break ground in September. Well, to break ground in September, the RPS would have to go out immediately. We all know that. And then we find out in August they're not going out. They haven't gone out. So they never did believe in my view that September that this current
schedule was going to work because there's too much you have to do in between. We had to get an OPM and then we had to do the RFPs and then you send them out and it's 12 weeks before you can possibly choose them and break ground. So that September was not and everybody was working towards that date
because they were told it. So, it's a question of transparency and this can't happen again. There has been mismanagement on this project from the beginning. We never knew who the project team was until tonight. And you know, it's like it's this
ephemeral group of people. I thought there were 20 people on it the way we were talking. And I guess I would like to know the OPM went out to bid and it closed on March 31st, which means the OPM was chosen within a week or so. So
from April until August, what was going on? And the minute you found out certainly in August about not you, the project team, the 2.6 6 million. They should have told you and we should
have had a special meeting here so that you could give them guidance because we've lost another three months. And I think it's infuriating. And guess who's going to eat this? The taxpayers. You know, somebody's got to be held accountable so this doesn't happen
again. It's not right. Um, I had to change all my notes because everything uh all all the different facts coming through here, but I also think option one based on prior performance, that's not going to happen.
The bids aren't even going out to for the RFP until November 4th. You know, the odds that this will get done by next fall. I doubt it unless somebody gets their act together and speeds this process up.
And I don't know why you have to keep going and getting bits. If we wait until October and then we get more what what are we going to do? Have another meeting in the spring? you know, just keep working and uh provide updates
to us. It's it's just it's it was very slipshot. That's the best I can come up with. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Phillips. All right. Brian Phillips, 374 Orleans Road. Um, I guess my first question is, is the basement still being redone? Are all the columns being taken out? And is
that going to be usable space? Um, I guess it's my first question. I didn't really say anything about that. Um, and then I guess, you know, I am struggling with the with the whole thing. It's like Chadam was told $5 million. These people were told $5 million, and it's a lot
more money. So, you know, I I think a lot of other people think somebody should be held accountable for this because this was a private corporation, people would be getting fired. Um I think the whole necessity of redoing this building was you know usable space for programs uh
that we need. Um so to kind of cut corners on some of that I think is wrong. You know even if it's only 300 uh square feet. Um and then I noticed that there's a lot of you know office spaces which I'm not sure why we're not necessarily using that for you know usable space. And then my one
major objection to this is that when the kitchen was supposed to be expanded, you know, for some of the programs they're using, they're just putting another office there. So, I would like to see the kitchen uh be expanded again. Um because that was in the original plan.
And um is there anything I'm missing? I think that I think that's it. Thanks. There's one column that's that's staying in the basement that was mentioned in the in the adult daycare room. There's one column that's staying right. I I just didn't know if they were taking, you know, taking all the columns
to make it usable space or not. I didn't know if that was Yeah. All right. No other columns in the basement as I heard him. Yes. And Timson and then we'll get to you. I'll be very quick and I'm so supportive of so many things that have already been
said that you don't need to hear them again. But h having been the daughter of a relatively famous architect with his office in the house, I'm pretty familiar with the whole process of building, getting bids,
and I keep wondering, you know, an estimator really doesn't have any skin in the game. What happens if they're wrong? They don't get sued. They still get paid. I do believe that a contractor's bid is
a more valuable appraisal of how much it's going to actually cost to build something. They do it all the time. It's they're not just using computers. They're out there. They're subcontracting. They know who they're working with. The other thing is um I
gave chairman of the COA and one of the select board members the name of a contractor who was able to completely tear down a building in Orleans on 6A and build Chase Bank from scratch. Do it
in less than a year. Stay within budget and stay within the schedule. And all the people I talked to at Chase are thrilled with the results and they're thrilled with the service they got during this that took less than a year.
So, it's possible, but I think it has a lot to do with finding the right contractors. I mean, the other thing is if if you send your bit send your RFPs out, most people may still have a job going on. If they're
off Cape, they can't be working off Cape and on Cape. It's they're going to have to charge you more. So, getting a contractor who is local, at least on Cape, is a big factor. Uh, rushing to
get all the bids in to me is not as important as getting the right people to bid. And I frankly think that it's much harder to achieve what we all have faced. We're getting which is a
compromise. We're we're not getting 1610 and a lot of you wanted 1610. It's not going to get voted in. Again, we've tried and that was not going to happen. So what we're doing now, I believe could be called a compromise and
and it's partly economics. It's partly keeping the same sight. It's partly moving forward. But I think this is our last chance, frankly. And I respect Kirk because doing this
tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. I mean, a contractor calls it a change order and he charges a lot every time you tweak and Kurt just keeps tweaking to make it happen. And I think that is quite an achievement. And it is not that
easy to get a designer to do that. And it re necessitates working very carefully with a lot of square footage. And and I think we've found someone to work with and we're very lucky to have him. But um I won't say any more except
I do think that a contractor's bid is of all importance at this point, not waiting for the estimator. Thank you, Ian. Thanks. I have a question for Rick, I guess. uh or the town staff. So, um when we put
out an advertisement for a bid for bids, where is that posted? And are we allowed to send the advertisement to individual biders that we might know about or are we limited? We're we're obviously governed by state procurement laws. Yes,
it's called chapter 149 uh procurement regulations for uh vertical construction and it's it would be great if we could solicit contractors and work with them uh individually but that's not allowed by law. Uh so the the documents have to
be put together and have to be uh made public to anybody who is interested in bidding on the project that is qualified. We will have set qualifications and the specifications that spell those out. Uh but we cannot uh negotiate or work individually with
contractors uh to to gain prices. It has to be an open uh public forum. And so where where are the where are these is the advertisement? Is it posted on a state website? Is that is that how contractors find out about it? it. It's posted on the central register
which is a state document as well as combis which is another u state document uh that the contractors regularly monitor. We'll also uh it'll be posted in local newspaper uh and on the town hall website. So that would be the Cape Cod Chronicle. How about the Cape Cod Times? Do we go
into that as well? I I don't know if that's what we've done in the past, but certainly the the the contractors subscribe to the central register and and they would get it directly. Okay. And if anybody has any qualification
Yeah. If anybody has any contractors that may be interested, you know, we do uh we have uh contractors that work in the area that are qualified uh and they're all aware of this project. Kurt and I both and and Terry, but if anybody has any contractors you'd like us to
contact, we can certainly do that to let them know it's coming. Um, each contractor has to be DAM qualified as well, which is the Department of Capital Asset Management. Um, and uh the if if a contractor does not carry that qualification, they cannot bid on the
project. So, it's it's very heavily regulated. Okay. Thank you. Kurt, did you have something you wanted to add to that? I was I was just going to mention the same thing about the uh DAM requirements. the contractors have to be able to the they'll be pre-qualified by the state. Um, okay. Which allows them
to bid on projects of this magnitude. Um, and there I just wanted to also report that there are several local uh contractors that are aware of the project um and are u waiting for us to
get to on budget and get out to bid. They're anxious to be a part of it. Okay. Thank you. Um Yes. Ma'am you sorry Mr. I know who you are but I've forgotten your name. Mr. Chairman if I may while I have while I'm here can I just I just want to answer a couple of questions that came
up. Uh the basement is being renovated and it's going to be utilized for the rest pit program um there and one of the comments was why so many offices or why are the offices on the first floor? We did talk uh with operations uh and talked about the
opportunity to make a common area for for office desks but but for privacy reasons uh there there needs to be individual offices for any sensitive conversations and the kitchen expansion is not being pulled out. It was never included in the
original concept. Um so just to clarify those items. Thank you. Yes. I'm Elizabeth Walker and I've been a member of the Friends board for this probably my sixth year and as um as a
member of the board I have two particular tasks at the Sefall building. One is um the library is self-service library um and I work with retired librarian who's volunteering try to
update everything we have and it's on the second floor um also I moderate the monthly book club and among four of our regular members are um people who are 90
plus and so the image I want to leave you with is that to go to the library, many of our patrons use the elevator. To go to the book club, which meets on the second floor since the writer's cove respit care moved in, um they use the
elevator as well. The elevator is not heated. Um it's not insulated. It works at different speeds during the cold and um or at town hall is um insulated. But I I would just like to
remind you that it's one more hardship for the clients who maybe have um their sight impaired somewhere for um socialization and um intellectual
activity. Thank you. Thank you. The new building will have would have the renovated building will have a new elevator. Is that correct, Kurt? I I just wonder why I know of almost six years now that that I know of almost six years now that that nobody's addressed
that elevator that we have. Um, excuse me. Um we were aware that that um the elevator needs to be updated. Um it is 30 years old. So it's coming to the end of its useful life. The elevator codes have changed um where
the there's an open vent at the top of the shaft which just lets cold air fall in and that's what the code required at the time it was built. Um the energy code is also um improved. So the uh elevator
improvement project as a standalone project is something that we've um always talked about pulling out and doing separately so that it's not added to the GC project so that it doesn't have the burden of the 25% markups and
insuranceances. So the intent was to do that as a standalone project much like the HAC project was done a year ago. Um, as she mentioned, it was identified in an ADA study the town commissioned many years ago and I think it's kind of just been waiting for the project to catch up
with it. Um, I will say that the um estimate that we did and the estimate we're working on does not include that, but we do have a budget for it um that we will um add to
the uh add to the project. Another one of those things that we'll probably We can add it to the total project cost. Um, but we'd like to keep it out of this general construction contract just to save that markup. But it would be a new elevator. Sorry, it would be a new elevator.
Yes, it' be a new elevator in the existing shaft. Okay. The open uh vent in the building can be closed under current code, but it does require the new equipment. Okay. Thank you. Um, anyone before you come a second time, anyone else who hasn't spoken for
a first time who would like to speak, anyone online? All right, Brian Phillips will give you a second shot. Quick, Brian Phillips. Um, I mean, I repeatedly heard that this kitchen is being expanded. Um, so maybe if you guys
requested that little office, they'd expand it into there. Um, and then the other thing I just forgot to say is that uh you're much much better off um using a gas stove over an electric as far as uh a kitchen like that. Uh having extensive uh kitchen experience. Thanks. Thank you. I'm going to bring it back to
the board. What is the pleasure of the board? There is a staff member with a recommendation. We've heard from members of the public. Um anybody have any thoughts they want? Stuart and then Corey. Um
I think obviously we have uh you know we have a communication problem here um in that little upsetting that the COA board and the friends are not being kept apprised regularly. They are the customers. they're the end users and we
need to create a uh a policy or whatever that will correct that problem. Um uh so the other thing I wanted to mention was the uh the concept and we're not going
to do it u well it's too bad we didn't do it at the beginning of this but this the town is long passed a uh a building needs u assessment committee. I mean, the I think the the building committee that uh Monoy School District has
created has been a huge benefit to that uh project and the the board should consider um requiring that. So, um I think I've heard of a lot of a lot of things being deferred or um unknowns um
and having been uh a party to a lot of these projects that that um that schedule is completely unrealistic. It's never going to happen. Um, so I think we just need to uh I think we we need to
have a reality that um you know I'd rather see a very a really good project uh than something that is rushed and there's a lot of unanswered questions here. Um thank you Corey. Thank you Mr. Chair. I was just
basically want to say is I I just want to make sure we move this for project forward with was kind of where we intended the the final project to be. I I I don't want to whittle so much away that we're really spending
money that we're going to regret 101 15 years down the road. So, I want to make sure if we're going to move forward with this, if the town's going to move forward with this, that we that we're covering as many of the angles that we had put forward in in the discussions,
um, you know, that we have. Um, and as far as the timetable goes, um, I think we all kind of, you know, maybe not the right term, buy into the optimistic like, oh, we can get this done. you know, we just sure we can
we're we're not going to have any hiccups. Um I think we've learned the hard way um for many years. Um things don't go so smooth. So to be expecting to hit these timets without a flaw,
let's not be foolish about it. It's we're it's going to there's going to be some disruptions. There's going to be hiccups. There's going to be things that are going to extend it. So, we've got to expect it to be be longer than what is being presented to us. These these timets are unfortunately not realistic
um based in reality. So, thank you. Anyone else? Jeeoff. Uh Dane, are you looking we looking for a decision on options that were presented? Well, that's what we're being asked. That's what we're being asked because if we as you and I know because we were
present as I said on the 20 um if I get my date right I want to get that clear. We were told on October 1st five days ago six six days ago. So that that um they needed to know whether
they should continue with the design work, let the estimates come in at the end of the month, mesh them together and put the project out to bid. Of course, if the estimates continue to be dramatically high, I would expect that they would come back to us
and for further guidance, but versus stop the design work, wait for the estimates to come in and lose another month. that was and then and the staff is recommending option option one. So I I go back to my question of Kurt
that this these plans have been given to the estimator already that we're not continuing to design and redesign anything. So this is in the pipeline already with your estimator, right? Are they still doing value engineering? I don't know.
I guess a follow-up is are you are you still doing value engineering a as as you progress here and or have has the estimator got a final set of design plans? I guess it's my question. The the estimator has um like a 90% design set of the architectural plans
because we spent the last month trying to you know rightsize the project to meet the original goals in the original budget. Um my consulting engineers um have completed uh 50% design drawings
which are also with the um estimator. The structural drawings are u at the 50% level. Um the civil engineer and I are working this week and next and through the next couple of weeks to finish the
site design um as we're uh because that just um takes time. Um and if we were to option two was to kind of put their pencils down and and not do anything for the next three weeks. Option one is to
kind of keep going, finish the documents, um, and then be ready to go to bid faster. But currently, we are not working on architectural edits. We're working on just getting our engineers um,
especially the site uh, work complete um, so that we can go to bid. So, so just a quick followup if I might. So, so can I just add that follow up? So that additional work you're doing now, will that is that going to be fed to the estimators?
That was requested. Yes. Yes. The estimator is um is working, but he's agreed that anytime we have some fresh drawings to to send them. Um so we'll we'll have revisions to the structural plans on the 10th,
which will go that either that that afternoon, that's Friday, um or on first thing Monday. same thing as we get a better set of um civil engineering plans at the end of next week. That'll go to the estimator and it'll be with them for
uh the next seven or eight days before they've promised to give us their um next best estimate. And what what date is that, Kurt? The next best estimate. The next best estimate is due at the end of business on the 24th
of of October. Yeah. which we would then review with the working group and committee either that afternoon or the Monday morning following and and then the the diff the timing difference between the two options is like everything's off a month. I I agree with everybody that you know the
schedule is very aggressive a month's construction's aggressive the construction starts aggressive but I mean the difference between the two options that we've been asked to to opine or make a decision upon the difference is a month between the two. So, be honest with you, I I I want to
get as accurate estimate as we can and I want to get get it out to bid as fast as we can because the markets are so in such a turmoil, you know, you want to we want to know what this is going to cost and before we we need to know really what it's going to cost to decide whether or not it's a go no-go with a
special and what it's going to cost so we can go back to the town if we need to. So the sooner as we as soon as we can get estimates done and as soon as we can get a bid that's accurate and the better I think we're more informed. Yeah, I I I agree. So I mean that's why
we're we're working um to kind of get any other additional information to the estimator before the 17th so you can have the one more week with it. Um and then we'll immediately receive that, report it back to Rick and Terry and the the working group that we have.
Um, and I'm sure we'll have a uh report that goes to Jill and is shared with you soon after. Okay. Thank you. If if you were to stop work right now, would the estimators be able to give you a final estimate because they don't have the 10% additional work that you need to do?
I think the the estimate will be a lot more accurate. The only thing um that I would they would they would be missing some of the site engineering um drawings in especially the parking
lots um in in more detailed so that they can be more accurate. They've got a concept level plan um that shows all the parking um and the the location of the septic improvements and generally the size um of that leeching field. So
that's all on paper already and in their hands. Um but the details and other things that come along with that in the next two weeks will be super helpful. What do you gain just to add on to what Jeff was inquiring? What do you gain
between from in doing option one versus option two other than just three weeks time? Um, one of the things that the estimators did at the at the last schematic level was that because they're most of them are former builders and they know what's in a complete set of
drawings. Um, they kind of read between the lines and they put some line items in for things that aren't even on the paper yet. Um, and one of the biggest bucket is a design contingency. So, they added a nice design contingency there of
10% in that budget just for the details that aren't in the plans to date. Um, there's a lot more for them to look at this time, including schedules of all the mechanical equipment. Each sprinkler head is on the plan. Um, each light is now on a plan.
Um, so instead of per square foot estimates on some trades, we're actually going to have hard numbers on trades. So there's a lot more detail they have this time that they didn't last. So we expect them to be a lot more accurate and a lot
more sure of their number and we would hope that they would agree to reduce their design contingency in their estimate to 5% or something. And then you know Rick and his team um have read many many plans. They'll also look at it
analyze it and advise as to whether it's um accurate. So Rick, you were going to respond, I think, to my question about what do you gain for this additional three weeks time? Uh yes. Uh the so this whole conversation has started uh you know the
end of September. Uh and you know right off the bat you know you we you know we're talking at that time do we stop? Do we just stop? Um we're 10 days or seven days into it now and uh it's a locomotive. The train keeps on moving.
all of the engineers are engaged. If you stop them, they go to other projects. Do you get them back? Uh so we were thinking about all those different concepts. What we gained by continuing to move forward and had the estimate on a parallel track is the estimate is going to give us a lot more information
this time than it did last time because there's a lot more information on the drawings and it'll help us make informed decisions as to how to bid the bid the project strategically. Do we look at add alternates and what those values are? Uh do we look at carving things out and bidding them
separate and what those values are? So having the documents complete and ready to bid in the estimate in hand uh just a couple weeks before the bids are done, then we can strategize as to how we're going to bid this. So it it gives us just more information to work with and
try to continue to cut the overall cost. What I just want to mention is there's been a number of discussions about cutting uh from the building. We haven't cut from program. You know, we've uh you know, there's been a lot of identified structural items uh that weren't
available or weren't aware a year ago. Um so we have we've stayed away from program. Um so we've made it, you know, we've made it as efficient as possible. So um so what we gained from that is having an estimate in hand while the architect and the engineers are
continuing to work. we don't have an inter in interruption in our flow and the estimate gives us more informed um you know reasoning as to how we bid the project. Okay. Thank you. Um did anyone else from the board have anything they wanted to
say? Dean. Um, sure. The if we chose option one, um, and it comes within the bid comes within the, uh, aotment of funding. Uh,
is that coming back here? I think we would have it come back to board to for you to accept the bids. Um, I'm just trying to think what we did with the the fire station project. Terry, I don't Oh, you were there, of course. Uh,
um, the bid comes in, our team analyzes the bid, analyzes the qualifications, we make a recommendation to the town manager and the select board uh, to for award, assuming that it's uh, it's something that we're recommending. And uh are we able to incorporate some
of these concerns that people have in this plan? Um I'm still concern I'm I'm feel like we're going to build another building and we're going to lose another opportunity here for uh what we had hoped for at uh 1610, which was an
alternate uh shelter location. This is seems to be the like an ideal uh as long as it's able to do that. And you know at a minimum uh the showers seem to be important. Um seems to have
everything else. I don't know about the generator capacity but um you know it it seems like that would be something we don't want to lose. I am worried about uh the the the kitchen details but you know that's don't want to get too far
into the weeds. Well, the showers and and and having this as a um uh sheltering facility was really not part of the proposal that went to town meeting. I'm not sure where you'd put them. I'm not a designer obviously, but I think
we can certainly even if it's we can certainly require that it come back to us when the bid comes in and the recommendation comes in. Yeah, I'm I'm concerned that we're going to get down the road here because, you know, the chief procurement officer is the town manager. She could issue the bid without approval of the board and I just didn't know. She's
saying she would No, I can't do that. We need the board's approval for it. Uh oh. What how does maybe I missed something. Why do you need the board's approval? Because we every contract if you look at the the waterfront infrastructure projects we come to the
board at every key decision point because the project the funds were appropriated but we still need the authorization to spend. Okay, that's that's not how I understand it but um so be it. We're all on the same page. We can make the statement right now that
we want this I think that that would be helpful because I hate to keep going down. There's an expectation on the part of this board that we want it to come back to us. a rabbit hole that um you know that maybe maybe we want to go to the annual town meeting for more funding and because I think the schedule's
I want to say something about this no one was more aggressive in pushing this than me and I don't regret that one damn bit because if I hadn't done anything last January nothing would be happening we'd still be wallowing in where we were going to put this project
I've been working at this at this for eight nine ten years and this is it for me if this doesn't happen here and it may not because these bids may come in too high and I said back in in March when we put this on the warrant that if
it came in too high we would have to go to town meeting for the additional funds and let town meeting make the decision. But I'm at the point where if it comes in significantly higher, that's the end of the project. And people will have to continue in this building until the
state steps in and says, "You can't run a senior center there because the building isn't competent for it." And our seniors will have to go to Haritch or Brewster or Orleans or Dennis for services. That's where I'm at on this. So I don't I didn't mean to get you up.
No, I'm not upset with you, Stuart. I'm just I'm just responding to this to the suggestion that the select board has done something wrong and that's not coming from you. The the uh my only point was
on the brighter side if we do get bids and they're within a reasonable, you know, amount of money that maybe town meeting would look more uh positively toward a bid. I should think so. Yeah, I should think so. If you've got a reasonable amount, if this if this comes
in approximate to $5 million and we have some extras, whether it's an elevator or the parking or whatever, then I think we go to town meeting, whether it's in May or a special town meeting, whatever works in the program. That's all I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm in agreement with you. Anyone else have anything they want to say? The first step is we need to get a number. Please, let's get a number. We had a number. Well, let's get they're revising the number and let's please get the revised number. Yes, Mr. Chairman, a point of
clarification. Uh, one of the speakers spoke about cutting back on the kitchen expansion. U, the uh the original plan did not have an expansion for the kitchen. It had an expansion for the uh meals on meals office as a as a as an office for the kitchen
staff uh in storage there. that still is in the in the in the plan. Yes. So, there is no kitchen renovation. That was never planned, but the expansion was planned was presented last year and is still in the plan. Okay.
Mr. Duncan. Yeah. Mr. Niccastro, I'd like to move option one to to accept option one. I think it's foolish to stop these guys in their tracks and and lose time. And I think getting a bit in hand with as much lacrity as we can is the is the move to make. So, I'd like to move option one.
That's what we've been asked to do and that's what I'd like to do. Is there a second? I'll second it. It's been moved and seconded. Any further discussion on this? Okay, I'll call the vote. Miss Davis, I Mr. Dykens. Hi. Mr. Meadows. Hi.
Miss Mr. Smith. I. And the chair votes I. Five to zero. Thank you very much. Thank you for everyone for your comments. Thank you. Next item on the agenda uh is the discussion of the town council review of the legal letters on 127 Old
Harbor Road and the vote. Um can we um can we have the conversation go outside please? Thank you. Um it was anticipated that our town council
be present this evening. Uh but we were advised that he's been called into a meeting in another community uh where he is I guess serving as counsel and I did not he was available about a half hour 40 minutes ago but I did not want to
interrupt the conversation and discussion on the prior business items. So I um want to just ask the board what you'd like to do. My intention would be to ha I'd like to have him present to answer questions and comment on the
legal opinion that he gave in his review of the letters that came in from those two law firms. Um and he's not here to do that tonight. Uh, in addition, we received follow-up letters from um those same law firms today which
fleshed out their their legal theories and he was provided those today and I wanted to have us have a chance to ask him what he thinks of those letters. So I think the choice for us is do we defer
this entirely until next week or do you want to have some discussion about it and with the understanding we wouldn't take any particular votes tonight because I don't really think it's appropriate to take a vote tonight without having the benefit of council's opinion and I know we have people in the audience including the chair of the
partnership who requested this uh item at one point. Shireen. Um I I know that we have some of the board members that aren't going to be present for a couple of the meetings and I think it's really important that they are here and that we have a full complemented board to vote on anything
we I agree with you do and I know that the next available time frame was into November um to make that decision. I'm willing to wait for that to make sure that everybody's here. I want to hear um our our um I want to hear Jay's
um response to some of these things. So, I'm I'd be willing to wait until we had a full board to go over this rather than the earliest that that might be is November 4th, but it might not even be that. I think we're talking November well the 11th is the is the holiday
and I won't be here on the 11th because I'm away. So, we're talking. Yeah. So, that would be the 18th. November 18th. November 18th. I'm just wondering how, you know, um because it is um Carolyn's agenda item,
how she feels about that. Caroline, you're here. Did you want to speak? I I know. I'm sorry. Um I know you came for this item. Yeah. Carol Mlullen. Yes. Um, so I mean if you guys aren't willing to vote tonight, then we'll have to come back
another time anyways and you want to have the full compliment. So if you want to wait till the 18th when everybody's going to be here, I would be most insistent that everybody's here for that vote when you finally decide to do it. Um, so I guess that's I fully agree with that's my best offer. I guess I'll take
I fully agree with that. Um, Corey, I mean, I'm willing to push it off that much. I don't know if there's any like general conversations we want to have as a board, throw anything out there in preparation for a meeting such, you know, several weeks down the road or we or we're fine. I mean, I don't want to I
don't want to be accused. I'm happy to entertain whatever discussion or conversation the board wants to have tonight about it. Stewart. Well, it seems to me I mean I I just got the uh attorney letters from the neighbors which were I thought were
well done and I was hoping to hear Jay's kind of uh comments on those. So um I can go either way. You can have a general discussion and then uh take no vote until November or whatever everybody's comfortable with.
Any other observation of what you'd like to do? I I just like to divert the agenda. Yeah. The whole thing. Yeah. I would suggest that if I we all just got these letters today. And by the way, I I would we have to make an we have to agree to release them. And I I
propose they be released and posted to whatever the town manager's website, whatever, so that the public can do that. Yep. Because we got B we got something that I wanted to see which was what their theories were. Yeah. And I would second you if that's a motion. I would second. Yeah. Well, it
under our pre-existing policy, it's the town manager and the chair can release a opinion. So, uh release um legal well, these are not our council's opinions, but we'll we'll post them. Yeah. Okay. So, we will defer this and I would suggest that if anybody has any, you
know, particular questions for town council, they could email Mr. Talman. Um, and I guess keep the town manager apprised with the CC on that. So, he'll be prepared to respond directly. Okay, that's fine. I just would like to
register my general um dismay at the fact that we're we're you know revisiting this the attorney's decision on this and we every time we p every time we make a decision on 127 if some lawyer throws a a a letter to us, are we
going to stop and analyze everything? I mean at some point you have to decide and has to be over and we've already got town council on this. The the preliminary uh statement that Talon has given also supports that. So I I resent
the the delay caused by this. I understand we want to come back to the 18th, but I just want to register that I find that to be uh really annoying would probably be the most polite thing I could say about it. Okay. Duly noted. Um, if anyone wants to speak, I'll let them speak and we're not
going to have any discussion up here, but let you speak. Sure. I would ask that it be postponed. Is this on? Maybe not. No, no, you can hear me. I would ask that it be postponed till the 18th. There are a lot of legal legal issues that are facing us. And very little has been in the
packet for the public. And again, these two two or three more opinions have come out and we haven't seen them. We just got them today, Wayne. We just got them today. Oh, I know. That's what I'm saying. It's like, hurry up. We've got to be able to have
an opportunity to review them and then have a meeting where our own town council should be here. Yeah. I that disturbs me that he found something more pressing than this. This is pretty pressing. He should have been here. And I think the fact is not is good reason to postpone it until they
can. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Is this November 18th? November 18th. Okay. Thank you. Okay, Judy. Anybody else? Nobody online. Okay. All right. That item is dispatched for tonight. We'll we defer this until
November 18th. Uh the last item on the agenda is um something that is pressing. Uh and this is has to do with what Stuart announced earlier, the um vacancy in the Cadam delegate position to the Barnstable County Assembly of Delegates.
Uh unfortunately um the charter for the for Brownstable County um requires that um it be filled within 21 days of of the notification we got from the county from the assembly clerk which was dated no uh
October the 2nd. That brings us to what October 23rd and we're we are required under their their charter and we would do it anyway to um interview uh candidates and then and send within
that 21-day period a certification of the person that we voted in. That's not a whole lot of time. And um and if we don't if they don't get that certification within uh 30 days, that's another nine days for them. They can
fill the position by identifying someone in town. This position runs to um the end of the end of 26. It's an elected position. The person who wants to stay in who is appointed. We get the make the appointment um will have to run for
reelection if they want to stay. I think it's a two-year term, three-year term. It's a nonpartisan election, but it's held during the um general state elections. And um all you have to do is be a uh for eligibility is be a resident
of the town for what, a year? I've forgotten what it says. I guess I can read it. Um so basically timewise Dean we have a next week have a week yes to uh interview people. So that would
mean that if you're interested you need to get your application in by Friday. Well we could interview and vote at the same session. Sounds like a plan. Yeah. So, I'm I was thinking and if we wanted to accommodate
times, schedules of folks on the board, we could have a morning meeting like 8:00 or 8:30. I think everybody could make a meeting like that, even those of us who work um interview people. I don't know how many people are going to apply.
I don't know if anybody's going to apply and and um and then proceed to a vote to uh I was just trying to find the um the qualifications. Yeah. Excuse me. Um
one year any voter resident of Bars County for at least a year. Where are you seeing that? Filling a vacancy. Oh, yeah. Any voter has to be a resident of Barnes County for at least one year. That's it.
Um, so what would you like to do, Stuart? I would suggest we uh advertise, interview, and let's get this. Should we put a deadline for the applications to come in? We usually do. Sounds like Friday's pretty quick. Friday's it. And when would you like to have this
meeting? Well, how about Monday? And then if we interview, we can interview before the select board meeting. Tuesday, there's a holiday on Monday. Yeah, next I meant Tuesday. And I meant Tuesday would be the the cutoff.
Do we have to notify them or take action by we interviewed folks? What we have to do is elect someone appoint vote to appoint someone and submit the certification of appointment letter to the county by
October 23rd. Okay. We could do it on October 23rd and have someone email I guess certification. Can't we just get it done on Tuesday? Well, I mean I mean we need to get it
out there and get people candidates and it's not like it's I mean I I'm I'm going to reach out to people. I think maybe Yeah, I would encourage board members and anybody every one of us should um but you know we could um I'm trying
to get the calendar up here. So, we've got two, you know, just under two and a half weeks. Monday's the um 13th, that's Columbus Day. Tuesday's the 14th. We we could
require, as Jeff suggested, Tuesday is the deadline to submit. We'll we'll post it tomorrow, Kathy. Right. And I want to remind this board too that board members can be assembly delegates. No, I am not.
We all need the additional headache, right? But I'm just saying that in case folks didn't realize that they might be interested. So why don't we do that? The 14th is the deadline for applications. When they come in, we'll schedule
an interview and a does the board open to a more? It doesn't have to be in the morning as far as I'm concerned. I mean, depends on how many applicants we get. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll know. We'll know Tuesday by um let's say noon time. Tuesday. So, when we have the meeting on
the 14th, we'll know and then we can decide when we want to interview and and vote. Okay. I think that's all we need to do. So, with that done, I'll accept a final motion for the night. Motion to adjurnn. Second.
Moved and seconded. Miss Davis. Hi. Mr. Dyken. Hi. Mr. Meadows. Hi. Mr. Smith. Hi. And the chair says I. Good night everyone. [Music]
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