and YouTube let me know sorry okay we're live recording in progress good evening everyone we uh just concluded our executive session and now in the public session portion of our meeting um before we get into uh matters on the agenda I just wanted to make a
brief statement uh with regard to um uh some recent work uh in connection to the P Street bridge closure um I I did want to recognize Police Department administrator and staff and and making excellent preparations uh with regard to
the forthcoming closure of the Bridge due to construction anticipated construction uh recognizing the potential impacts due to that construction work on uh traffic flow and quality of life uh as you may or may not know a temporary traffic signal was installed at the intersection of
Fairmount and River uh to better manage the anticipated uh traffic counts uh the police department is doing um an adorable job and they're continuing to monitor uh the flow of traffic and making adjustments to uh cycle times uh
in order to optimize uh particular flow um there are material changes to traffic patterns and and uh uh regrettably some uh impact uh to the immediate surrounding area uh but I would like everyone to know that we are listening to Residents and their concerns uh and
aware of the developing situation the department and staff for monitoring and continually looking to optimize the conditions there in order to mitigate uh the quality of life uh so we thank you for your patience and understanding we continue to receive your comments and
concerns um and we will do our very best to um direct the police department uh and other uh Personnel to uh best uh best handle that so thank you um uh would now move on to uh the first
hearing of citizens Mr lanti could you hidly provide guidance members of the public are now welcome to come up to the microphon to address the township committee this is an opportunity for any member of the public to be heard about issues which which are not topic scheduled for public hearings tonight those present May step
up to the microphone to be heard if you are watching via Zoom you may speak during any of the public comment sessions followed by by following the zoom instructions to raise your hand whether in person or online when you're are recognized to speak please mind the following procedures please say your
name spell your last name and give the name of your street you do not need to give your street number all public comments will be limited to 3 minutes rather than use any of your time answering questions the township committee will wait until you finish speaking before
responding there are two public comment sessions on tonight's agenda each member of the public will be limited to one comment of up to three minutes during each public comment period written comments submitted to the Township Clerk before 3 p.m. today will be read during
the public comment sessions written comments are subject to the same guidelines as oral comments duplicative written comments may be summarized rather than read in full according to guidelines issued by the New Jersey Division of local government services and I do not have any written comments
from the public for tonight Mr Lan do we have anyone online uh we do not have any hands raised wonderful thank you uh at this time I now invite anyone uh in the audience to step forward uh to the mic uh should they desire to say a few
words uh I see no one coming before the mic um I shall now close uh first here hearing of citizens um this evening we've got uh a single resolution for consideration Mr Shahar yes um so this uh resolution for
the appointments uh concerns the vacancies that uh are require the governing body's uh consent uh typically a workshop meeting we wouldn't take this action but so that way board is not concluded from continuing their business
or possibly delayed as a result of uh um lack of Quorum uh we're taking this action tonight so that way they can proceed as expeditiously as possible thank you yes um so this uh the resolution is for the appointment of a particular individual for Zoning Board
of adjustments um she's uh a uh resident with children uh in the school systems she's a licensed architect uh so she's got uh highly relevant uh experience that would um benefit uh matters before the zoning board should be highly
contributory so I think she' be an excellent addition she's been serving in this capacity uh previously so uh we certainly welcome her with open arms I understand that they uh would be forthcoming um considerations as well as I think we've got um an alternate uh
spot or so it's still available but uh in the interest of uh botting up the uh the boards and committees as as quickly as possible so they can continue uh start their work at um dur in their first meetings I did want to put this U um resolution for the
committee we'll need a motion in a second to adopt the resolution yes do I have a motion I move to adopt resolution 2025 63 do I have a second I'll second uh Mr lanti Mr O peritz yes Mrs ewal yes
Deputy Mayor Roland yes and mayor Troy yes motion passes uh we now proceed to uh committee reports uh sorry um departmental reports thank you mayor uh if I may I'd like to start with engineering we have our engineer here and we like to get himly
as possible welcome rashki thank so um on the uh coming agendas for that we engineering uh the scope of engineering are two change orders one is for the roof replacement at DPW and the other
one is for improvements at Pine Street uh the memos for both should be included in your agenda packet explaining those um with respect to the DPW roof replacement some issues uncovered through the process that we want to address to bring it up to code and a
safety issue a minor change order and then for Pine Street it's actually a reduction uh correct John correct so uh that's a good change order any question on either of those two okay so we will have those ordinances on for the next meeting um
for discussion and action uh specifically I asked John to come here to speak to you about the sewer service area and this was a memo that you received I want to say at the November meeting um yep the November meeting it was something that we felt required a
little bit more time to reflect upon and then uh John would come here to answer any questions that may have and so that's why John's here and there's one other item what you want to talk about the pl yeah so we could the other one was the minor site plan start with the sewer service area
first so um modification of a sewer service area um it can get complicated if you're trying to expand the sewer service area there's a lot of justification with that with the D um but to retract a a sewer service area
it's it's less cumbersome of a process you still have to go through all the the steps that are necessary and prepare all the documentation that uh you know comply with the regulatory requirements as multiple maps that need to be prepared um but ultimately the the fact
that we're looking at an area that um is prom prominently the the area is a lot of steep slopes and there's a lot if on one side it's steep slopes on the other side of the road you have u a flood plane of the patic river and so and and a substantial amount of wetlands and so
it this would really be something that uh would go very I would Envision be going very quickly with through the D if we wanted to remove this area from the sewer service area um you know wouldn't be too difficult to do um there is a a number of steps that has to go through
and and ultimately um there's a a public comment period And there's a a a public um require It ultimately is is posted in the New Jersey registar to identify this is a formal revision so there is opportunities for the public to uh
provide comment but um just say that that that public comment period it's it's unless the residents are notified they're not going to know that it's gonna something's published in the New Jersey register in her comment so it may be something that if we do want to go forward with this the committee may want
to do something above and beyond to let the residents know that we're taking this action is just just a suggestion um now the the there's certainly options that could be considered um you know this stretching section of River Road um
over the years um there there has been several residents that inquired if sewers are going to be installed um primarily when their sewer fails and they're looking at options and sometimes it's very expensive to put a septic sstem in and so we've had residents over
the years in choire and had an interest in in extend extending sewers but there really was never an organized fashion of people coming in as a group and and doing it has really been sporadic on people doing that you know most sewer extensions in town has really been um
initiated by residents approaching Us in in an organized way saying hey we we're interested in doing the expanding the sewers like Johnson Road and other roads that we've done Kansas um it's it's uh really has been you know the public has come to us and asked us to evaluate it
and and look at the options there so um there really hasn't been a a a uniform interest it was usually just sporadic people inquiring when they they change their septic systems over um with the um
this area the we we can approach it in different ways that you know modifying the sewer service area does not have to be just let's just take out the entire chunk of of of of of land um you can also modify it so that if there's an interest in just putting a like a a cdor
off the roadway so you can capture the homes and or or or you can even just put box around the existing homes that that's also been done so there's things that could be done if if if if we still wanted to offer sewer service areas to the existing homes or we we can just
take out the sewers area all Al together so there is some variability that how we can approach this John in terms of process uh are you familiar with the state plan process that's going on right now yes to yeah not that you need to get it too far into it but um would that
process um be something that would replace the process that you're talking about no you still you know the the D when they review super service areas a separate um process it they they don't overlap and so so certainly looking at the planning areas this being an
environmental sensitive areas D will just acknowledge that um but certainly that doesn't have to be a component of us applying for it I I think that this this area is already uh environmentally restricted with the steep slopes with the wetlands with the flood plane that this is something that if we were going
through you know every every few years the DP does go through a the revisits the whole Wastewater management plan and you have to look at it and then in fact if we were going through that major revision or or review they they would be
taking sections of this road this area out to they would be taking out all the wetlands they would be taking out all the FL planes so you know even if we wait 10 years when that that happens it's it's not on a regular basis but when that happens next within this sewers area this District um they
they'll be they'll be taking these areas out anyway sorry on that point um so we're looking at River Road Fair Mount to pic correct so when you're saying because of the wetlands FL PLS which is the lower
end correct they would take that area out any they would take that they always yeah they they would take those areas out if if we didn't do anything in the future eventually when they they revisit this this um this this um sewer service area for the entire County and they they
they would be relooking at the lines and they' be taking those areas out okay but the Lower Side not the necessarily the upper side the you steep slopes is at one point the regulations were that you you they would take that out right away um but they um that's a little bit of a
gray area with steep slopes but historically they've been taking them out but it has they have cut back a little bit on on their how aggressive they are with taking those slopes out you know we have some areas that are are are they're they're extremely Steep and so that that would certainly you know
justify some of the areas with I don't believe they would be questioned but steep slopes generally are considered more than 15% and a 15% slope is not you know it's not it's steep but it's not to a point where it really when you get to above 20 25% is then you can really
appreciate a steep slope and the difficulty of building on it the you know it's difficult to get a septic system on it it's it's there's a lot more building constraint as you get steeper can you characterize what the overall grade is for the other side of river so if 10 I'm sorry you said maybe
10 or 15% is the threshold correct apology well the the the the slopes from the roadway where the homes are that that's a a modest slope you're probably in the 15% range until you get to and then once you're behind the homes after a short distance then it's very
steep I like you have to be a billy go to walk on the slopes is so steep um you know those in those areas they're just very they're just impossible to to build on they're so steep it's it's like 25% plus okay I mean just by way of background uh
this topic came up um during third round affordable housing because uh the town at the time was looking at some large scale development on River Road and residents had come out uh and were very concerned you know and there was some discussion to be able to facilitate that to put in uh sewer service and there was
you know residents were just very concerned about large scale development and they just did not want to see large scale of element now the flip side of course is large if you don't have larger scale of element then of course it it U kind of mitigates your potential in
terms of your what you're able to make on your home so although large scale development would also limit that potential so um I think there is benefit to making sure of course we have res but uh that really was what you know precipitated this whole thing plus we had the environmentalists came in were
talking about you know corridors for for uh passage of um you know animals in the area and the wetlands and the seep I mean it was just it's as John said it's environmentally sensitive area so uh this didn't just come out of you know our brain trust it was the residents
coming in pretty much in force who had a lot of concerns about large scale in the area so the question for the committee uh is what direction would you like obviously a decision is a needed on whether you want to pull it out or not it sounds like I think the decision is whether
maybe you want to engage in some public Outreach um if this is a topic that you want to pursue if this is something that you want to uh explore a little bit further uh John's outline what that looks like um we could start off by you know writing letters to the residents
that would be affected first to see what their feedback would be or we could just hold up public forum uh that would be open to everybody as well or we can take it in stages uh or you decide that right now is not the time to even you know go
further on this and tonight thought that we carry this to another meeting but uh there's yeah and also I just say that um you know eliminating it from the sewer s area is not is going not going to at least in my experience it's not going to
PR to developer if he sees a large lot there that he may want to pursue and then try to amend the sewer service area in the future to put it back in you know that I I've seen that done on multiple projects uh particularly in in Township of Denville two two properties that were outside the sewer service area they
include Wetlands they had steep slopes and the developers you know petitioned the town it was affordable housing and they got it approved and and so they they got the area back in the sewer service area so um it it's something that um the these properties really the
the steep slopes to the wetlands they really shouldn't be in the Wetland they shouldn't be in the sewer service area they they're eventually going to be taken out anyway if we don't do anything but um I just don't want they have their you know I don't want to misrepresent to the committee that you know this is going to stop development in this area
from someone that's going to be an intervenor you know it's going to stop the normal um you know con development in this area of of conventional that might happen with the subdivision or something that's it's going to limit the appropriately limit the development in this area but if a if an intervenor
wants to make something happen he's going to push it through well as far as uh some some guidance I I think it would be I think be worthwhile to provide some sort of uh information to those potentially
impacted whether as you suggested letters but I think it's posted specking out the details this evening but um I would like to suggest that we do some sort of um put some system in place to obtain input from those who would be
potentially impacted but just putting information out on on the website reaching out directly through letters or uh you know I think the best thing might be though to invite them maybe do and info session with John to explain to them you know
more personally what that would mean for their property yeah and solicit their input on that you know that way we can take account and say if there are 10 properties five are okay with this five are not okay with this nine out of 10 definitely want this or or don't but at
least just to give us some indication of those who are directly impacted and then we can decide how to expand the the Public Communication on that that's fine unless you want to do a different yeah and I I think it's helpful because this area because of the
grades um it would be difficult to get these properties with gravity so people thinking oh I'm going to get a sewer they're going to ultimately have a grinder pump if they're going to get sewers in this area this is going to be a low pressure sewer line basically it's a small diameter pipe and you just have multiple grinder pumps connected to it
so if they even if they want to get sewer they have to they can be educated that this is what's going this is technically what's really feasible in that area it's it's it's for the for the number of homes it's just not practical to install a gravity line install a new pump station and go through that route that' be extremely expensive and and we
can explain to the residents also um if there's an interest extending sewers that the we can explain the whole um special assessment process that how we extended sewers in in other areas in the town because it's not the sewer utility or the or the township does not pay for sewers it's the residents that are
receiving that that infrastructure that benefit pays for the infrastructure to be installed so yeah think that would be really helpful for them to understand the pros and the cons yeah and we have some really available Maps so that we can
just show okay these are these are the Wetland areas in this area these are the flood planes these are the steep slopes and we can regulate that and those are all maps because you know those Maps were generated we just need to blow them up for this area so we can readily put some information together for res
do that I just think having a almost like a one-on-one with John for them would be a group onone but that way because it's it's a very complicated issue with it's going to open up a lot of questions and I think trying to put that all in the letter would be hard and then just raise more concerns so it
might just be best to say hey we're having a public info session for your neighborhood with John to talk about um the the benefits uh the pros and the cons and exploring um the super service
area that sounds good to me okay all right uh the other one uh is concerning minor site plans John do you want me to te that up you so this this really came about because uh I mean I've
only been here a few years and I haven't heard of this coming up too often but um a developer in town that Cornerstone that finished building the the property over there they want to put a marquee sign it Cornerstone apparently that was
overlooked uh in the approvals and so in order to come back uh you know that's something that would require them to make a whole new visit to the the planning board uh and there's no provision in our ordinances for minor
site plans correct John correct and so they would be going through a major site plan just to make what uh minor minor Improvement on their property and so I brought that up to John just to pick his brain because he's been here a long time and has done a lot of work with the land use Sports and that's when
John told me well that mechanism doesn't exist how often does it happen not too often butten that it is common to consider so and it is common in other municipalities other is there there's Provisions for um not require you know having a better
definition of what requires site plan approval so if you're not impacting traffic you're not impacting drainage you're not impacting X Y and Z you know you you you and and you're proposing something that fully complies with all the zoning requirements you can make a minor change so we we really don't have
that in the ordinance to accommodate that and it just seems like it is something that's a more of an industry standard of having something that that limits some minor improvements without having to make a commercial property owner come in for for minor things so what's triggering this is because it's
over one acre right there no it's not no it's it's any are are any improvements on a pro commercial property has to come to the board would be deemed yeah yeah that's right burden some um how often do we have that here yeah for example Arbor Green had to come back to the board
simply because they wanted to they changed their light uh from internal illumination to external and and so it was just something as minor as that and actually Hickory square has come in for minor things like that just minor signage and that's that's really what triggers a lot is just some minor
signage so so if they're putting a new sign in that fully conforms with all the setbacks with the size of the sign how the sign is supposed to be constructed you know it seems like that would be something that the zoning officers should be able to sign off on for for M something
minor so the question is if you do want to uh I mean that is a process that requires both the governing body and the planning board so the question is whether you want to make a formal referral and recommendation to the planning board to take that up or it can initiate with here and then go to them
um but or is it something you don't want to address and just kind of leave it as is is there a downside to having it or just no I don't see it is it does get combersome to send something it's a cost too to the to the commercial properties they have to go through they hiring
their attorney they're going you know it cost some thousands of dollars for something plans and sometimes it cost more to come to the board than the actually Improvement that they're doing so it it it's and then the delays as well you know sometimes so I I think it's it's just to com accommodate the
the the property owners to have some some minor that you know it's again it's something that fully conforms with every all all parts of the code is just something minor Improvement that they're making so you know my suggestion is we kick this to the planning board we'll let them come up with some language and
then they can come back to the committee to review what their recommendation is then you would go through the process of of introduction and discussion has clearly defined Major versus minor corre there not a lot of argument exactly yep
exactly y it's very common so you'll have an example you have example draft ordinance and it's basically Amendment to the ordinance that introduces some minor adjustment minor site plan something wrong definition be
definitions right there'll be definitions to do it you know and some towns actually have a a subcommittee of planning board to review something and so we can have other layers and we can they'll vent that out of the planning board how they would like it you know some some even though with these you know I know some planning boards they
want to see every little thing they want to know exactly what that sign's going to look like they want to you know those things and you know but uh I think we can come up with something reasonable and practical I think the planning board would like to know that that they just don't need the entire site plan work
correct correct and so like I said some sometimes it's you can have a a sub commmittee that's that's just reviewing a zoning application and there it's just a commit subcommittee of three they get together and now public hearing they just get together and they just talk about it and says yeah this is something
that we can technical Review Committee yeah like a technical Review Committee because that's that's another process that that's there and it just kind of gives maybe it gives a you know a little bit more that a set of eyes instead of just the zoning officer looking at something you have a small committee looking at it and so it's not going
through the whole board and not paying you know the whole process makes sense yeah I mean it's reasonable it's doesn't have it very often but it certainly is a commonplace pathway that that's offered by many municipality so so just so I understand are you um
looking for the planning board to make a recommendation to you or is that what yeah that's what we've done in the past okay I just hand it in the past but we've learned a letter I guess from either you or the attorney right committee wants you to correct take a
look at this deal formally we did that with the setbacks I think uh yeah I'll talk to the chairman we put it on the agenda discussion item and then uh you know they may encourage Frank to to pull something together and do a memo and so it'll go take a process okay okay I just
want to make sure before I start driv y no okay uh with John here were there any questions on his report okay all right good night everyone mayor would you like me to start at the top then yes please okay uh
so under Administration we've got uh four pieces of legislation coming up over the next uh month or two the first one is the uh circular ordinance we had some discussions on this last year uh but by the time we got to a point where
there was I think a consensus it was too late in the year to introduce an ordinance and so we're taking this back up uh it originated at the environmental commission and um the aison communi in the que brought that to our attention uh
there is a draft that should reflect uh the feelings and sentiments from the last meeting on this topic um I believe it captured everyone's input on that and that should be the consensus draft uh
unless there's any further changes if that's good then we can have that ready for introduction at the next meeting did we I know I had asked about uh having the chair of the environmental commission come and speak on this but um
did we at least send this over so they could take a look uh we can do that after this meeting I did not get a chance to but I can certain send that to them I me I think we covered a lot of the things that there was some back and forth and I think they would have liked to have participated in the discussion
but um yeah I think we address a lot of the concerns certainly we have the opt out component which is not available right now um meaning opt out of having uh the the Flyers placed on our driveways and then uh in terms of where the placement is so I think those were
the two key things also think the as we work to reflect that it would be uh for commercial and for profit right correct so be bound read along those lines what I've seen also in some other
towns in part of the implementation of this is they'll have on their website just sort of like we've got a do not knock registry but they put information on their website about who to contact so they have the phone number and the email address I found uh that on some websites
so they say Hey you like to opt out of this if you don't want the circulars anymore call this number or email this number and let them know so it helps you know publicize that this is an option so if we do adopt this ordinance we can certainly do that
too any further comments or questions Mr shoty okay thank you so the next item the next two items I'm looking to have hopefully for the next meeting um expecting that probably the end of this week or early next week I'll have
offer letters to a uh new technical assistant and an administrative assistant the administrative assistant would be the uh to replace the uh individual that resigned from the admin Finance HR position um I think we've narrowed it down to two candidates for
both and uh we'll be uh moving ahead with those I'll let the admin committee know about that either Friday or Monday and then the authorization for calling pool concession bidding is coming up it's that time seems like uh it can be
blink and it's here the uh concession bid is limited in in duration last time we did this I believe was 2023 um and for for the 23 and 24 season so for the 2025 season uh we need to do this again it would be for 25 and 26 um
so with your approval by way of resolution to authorize that bidding we would L those bid specs and hopefully at uh either the April but no later than the May meeting award that contract any questions on
those okay uh next item uh before we get to the point of drafting the ordinance uh there is a memo concerning the land use board fees I did talk briefly at the last Workshop meeting that we're exploring um correcting adjusting and
and you know making some adjustments to the fees for four different areas one is our land use boards the other one is for the fire prevention office the other one is for the construction and Zoning offices uh those are some fees that are either not in line with uh our current
costs or with what the state statute allows for uh so I asked the different department heads to prepare memo along with comparisons and a recommendation and that's what you've got here today is just that one for the land use board fees coming up at the next month would
be the others uh and so with your feedback on this uh we would either prepare an ordinance for introduction to address the concerns by our land use board manager and Mr shotti these increases would be again as a result of reflection
of uh the cost to do the notices correct um and part of the work incompasses uh reviewing fees of comparable municipal correct uh so that the increase while it
is increased nevertheless is deemed reasonable and within line with other municipalities correct we have to advertise uh for decisions uh you know for there's a whole bunch of things that we have to by law advertise um and costs
to advertise in the papers go up and we have we either taxpayers eat those costs what we're trying to do is make sure that the individuals that are making these application fees are paying the is appropriate to cover hour cost so it doesn't get passed on to taxpayers and that one specifically with
this is uh subsection 30- 17.1 uh in our uh land use ordinances uh to adjust uh I'm sorry 17.1 and 17.2 to $100 in order to cover the cost of our
advertising for notice of decisions if you look uh included was the buau of New Providence and the buau of chadam prices and uh this would not be unreasonable yeah I was a little confused so I get the $100 on the um
advertising but uh the rest of the fees were in there but I just would see notes that say amended site plan but it didn't say what the if there was a a recommended change in the fee yes so this would be uh the notes were just
copies from the actual hard copy those notes aren't relevant to this the actual handwritten notes on that so you go to uh pull that up um yeah I see down below it's highlighted but it you know it wouldn't
say for example if something says 300 it wouldn't say recommending 350 or something just the one I'm looking at doesn't have any uh are you looking at the file that is just so I'm looking at the same one as you you're referring to the chadam township ordinances yes okay chadam
Township 13- 30-7 Fe yes so let me uh yeah those highlights and all those are those are her personal notes on some other things because this is the bound book so she makes copies in her book so those aren't
uh related to this request okay maybe it's just me if somebody could just jop me a note at some point tell me exactly what we're looking to change and what those amounts are because it just wasn't clear to me yep thank you I I thought we were going to flesh it out here a little bit more but that's
what I'm trying to understand exactly what's changing it is so if you go to um it's the cost of publication it's not all the other notes so it's where the part where it talks about cost of publication yeah is that it that's all
oh yeah it's not I thought you said there were four things that were changing those are coming in the future this is just for the land us board the other one the other department heads are going to have their own memos coming later on this was just one of the four reviews of fees that we have okay so
this is just that one portion today we're talking about okay sorry about the confusion on that okay yeah this is just on the land use board uh notice of decision fees that's all okay yep that was a lot of information for just that I know she she didn't include a lot of
info um but that's uh those those will have their own memos with their own supporting documentation thank you so uh can we go ahead with drafting that ordinance for introduction yes I'm f with so again so for it's planning and and Zoning Board
yep just that for now okay thank you um moving on the under Clerk we have uh the business and landlord insurance registration uh ordinance that one uh you've got a
sample a draft of what that ordinance would look like it's largely modeled off of State language and our Township attorney could speak about that a little bit more if you have any questions but that is based off of uh State Statute there was an amendment to law that
requires businesses and landlords to have uh liability insurance and register with the municipality to demonstrate proof that they have that and we don't have an ordinance to provide for that mechanism where they register and and to
charge them for that registration and we're looking to amend our ordinance to include that now so we are complying with the state law and so just to be clear this is presumably all these entities that would fall under this would already have
liability insurance and it's not that we are requiring to go forur it right it is just registering with a essentially a Certificate of Insurance ATT testing the only thing that the ordinance does so all all everything in the ordinance is
required by Statute we're not imposing anything new other than two things one is a fee um which I think 25 I put $25 which seems to be what other people were doing um and a potential f they don't comply
so that's the only thing we add everything else they're statutorily required to do so we're not adding anything else that they are not otherwise required so everything else is statutory they have all those amounts we didn't none of that's us all of that's the state they're all the the insurance
all that other stuff they're required to do it anyway but they were never required to actually register with us so that we performing like the second line of defense to make sure that they're complying as of the the statute that
also says you have to register with us so this ordinance doesn't impose that either that's also part of it the statute so it it actually says that they have to register with us as well so the ordinance literally the only thing it's telling them that only thing new it's
doing is that $25 because the statute says that municipalities can adopt an ordinance imposing the fee because you know to account for the time that now we're going to be spending to register them and the you know the bookkeeping time that it's going to take we can
impose the fee and we can impose the fine for non-compliance that's the only things and the statute actually says you can do those two things so that's the only two things does this apply to businesses of all shapes and sizes I mean like every single home business across the board
and everything too and then there's no notification process prior to it's just if you violate you're subjected to a fine there's no opportunity at all for us to offer any sort of notification if two small business owners in down here
ask for a friend um yeah I think that's you know I think that's certainly subject to I I would if if someone were to ask me I'd say you know listen you got to give them an opportunity to comply I think that's difficult you give them an opportunity to
comply but there's a lot of things though that are ordinance that people may just like state law right like you you you may not have even been aware of the state law the state didn't notify we don't you know in fact the state's probably in a better position to notify businesses because you have to register with the state you don't have to
register with the town that you're in business there's probably a ton of businesses in town that we don't know about so we would kind of put blanket notifications we try to let people I can't directly notify every business if I don't know they exist so typically you
know things happen where you are not in compliance with the law somebody finds out and then you've got to come into compliance with the law yeah that's how a a lot of things unfortunately tend to work we will do our effort to to notify them and that's why you know there's a discretion with the judge also judge is
going to not always going to hammer you with the maximum or say okay well take care of it but the the big concern is that if God forbid something were to happen that's your real punishment is that you didn't have insurance and you're going to be dealing with civil
repercussions in that case and I think from the Township's perspective it's that we're you know we're holding up what we're obligated to do right we're doing what we're supposed to be doing under the statute we're monitoring it and we're um we're doing taking the
registration um aspect of it seriously we're doing what we're supposed to be doing we're implementing it um and you know it's an important important um uh you know policy to implement and we're doing it to the best of our
ability you know is it going to catch everybody now of course it's not but nothing knows right I mean it's well how do you so in terms of administration and a practice how do you so we pass this ordinance and then what what are our
next steps in terms of so you can fire alarm regist there are ways to go find businesses I think it's very difficult to find rented units and for family MTI for family with owner occupy
so I think it's actually easier to find the multif family properties than rental properties than is the commercial properties because you're either going to be um you know the one that's sort of trickier would be the rental properties because let's say you're an Airbnb right
we don't know now granted we we've been talking about this for lead inspection purposes as well because we have to do those um there are people that are renting their home through a realtor Realtors would say to their uh you know to the property owner say hey under
state law you've got to do this but if you're doing it through Airbnb vbo we're not really going to know um unless somebody alerts us to that the multif Family Properties those would be classified on our tax records we would have an easier way of knowing those uh
on the commercial properties if it is a commercial property you're going to be maybe a four seat commercial property on our tax roles but if you've got a business but not a commercial property right then we wouldn't necessarily know that we could go through the Department
of State and maybe try and get a a registry that way how would we practically implement it we would get uh through sdl for example which is the software that we use in the Construction office we're using that now for dog and cat licensing they have different modules so part of that cost that Tiana
is talking about the $25 part of that cost would go to now paying our cost to have that system in order to maintain that database so I've got a question so with the commercial property section theoretically there could be somebody that runs a business from their home but
they're not receiving customers or just you know doing business from a spare room in their house would that fall under this yeah it's a commercial business yeah okay I think you should have you should have insurance either way I mean depending on what you're
doing I'm just ins you know a homebased business where you're not receiving customers you would already have your homeowners insurance and stuff like that but those tend to or they've talked to their insurance professional and they've taken on additional Insurance because it happens to be a
business well I I don't work in insurance so I don't know no nor do I but as a small business owner um it was recommended for me to take on more Insurance because somebody comes to my house and I talk business with them something happens it's a it's a business
issue um so it's not unlikely that residents that are operating businesses out of their homes don't already have sufficient insurance to cover the qualifications here uh what they might not be aware of is that they have to register right with us so um it could be
both but it's probably unlikely I I can't speak for so that's I was trying to understand what it's the $25 is paying for because it would require it would pay for the administrative time of whether the clerk
has to send out notices violations but also the system that we would be maintaining to keep track of this no difference than and that's an they have to pay an annual fee to file that that uh reg yeah register is presumably at at least at the outset I would have to
spend a lot of time sending notice to all the businesses to let them know that they have to do an um an initial plus an annual filing with me so that's going to be my time that cost the post to sending out the notice the cost of paper sending
out the form and such if you're if you're proactive about it that's that's well how are they supposed to know unless I send out a notice well I think that's another question if you are being proactive about it it's just a state it's been in place since 2022 uh telling you now this the first
time hearing of it so and nobody has registered with us as as M said they've been required to register with us whether we have the ordinance or not didn't mean they didn't have to do that they have we haven't gotten any registrations so I I only learned about
this required myself uh a month or two ago so I'm reading also multif family but nobody is arguing or I guess nobody is uh suggesting that there's a proactive measure to contact to get a active list from the state and send
notification out is could do that yeah I mean I don't know if that's a discussion something you want want to pursue and so far as we have any sort of a list um I have a database of all the retail food businesses in town so at least I can start from there but sure retail is
pretty easy to identify if the small businesses are you know operating out of their homes yeah we would contact the State um if we want to be proactive about this we would contact the State and try to get a list so we can send out notification there's also commercial
databases out there too there there's a lot lot commcial resources so um is the feeling that we do want to be proactive or not proactive about it I'm going to recuse myself for I mean I I well we just were proactively told you right now
no well and I have an obligation now for obvious reasons but I can't sit here and say that you know six months ago this is something I would want you know I'm operating a business out of my home so do you really want to subject that to everybody or is it it's state law
already um you know I I'm GNA recuse myself from uh voting on that kind of top can I can I suggest I mean we apparently we're three years behind already can we kind of digest this one because this is news for me I'm looking at for for multif family
it sounds like for each unit it's $25 for the filing right that's what seems that's I'm reading it correctly you can change that you it could be whatever you want that's just what others have done so that your your water bottles lighting up that means I need to take
a um okay so is is there's no rush right we could kind of no I mean we we briefly talked about it at the last meeting now we've slow walked to a draft for you to review before we actually put it on the agenda to introduce we could introduce it in February March whenever you
whatever you want that's that's what we're here to decide well based on the comments I've heard thus far I think this is this is something that probably requires further consideration um yeah in terms of practicality right the backend side of
things where there going to be a database that's living that compiles all this information and then sort of the um the enforcement side of things right do we you know how how wide do we cast in n in terms of bonified standing businesses
uh these owner occupied for families and units as well as work from home or home office but those aren't those aren't really correct wrong that's not necessarily something to decide on it's the fee to decide those everything else
besides the fee is statute so all you're really deciding is the fee that's it um the fee and the and whether or not no the enforce it no again enforcement is if something happens
we're alert the the question is whether administratively we are proactive in sending out a notice to say Hey FYI there's this law since 20122 to do that but that's not even a part of this ordinance the the decision are decisions are the fees and the fines and when you
want to intro when you want to introduce it right correct the onus is on the business owner and the landlord the onus is not on us to make sure that they file maybe it would be correct the statute doesn't requ us to make sure that
businesses are registering with us right we can let them know by the way we can and you can decide whether or not you want us to affirmatively contact everyone you know businesses in the municipality that is another thing
you can decide but as far as the ordinance is concerned and that's not in the ordinance because that's more administrative and policy in the ordinance it's the fee and the fine it's not even how many units no
no are affected or not affected defined they're defined entities in here yeah I understand yeah right yeah I just I think that the I heard what you said about you will wink wink nudge nudge to help
them comply with everything but the ordinance as it's written now is that it's no less than $500 for um a violation and I I think we should add a little bit more leniency in the violation of Y we can absolutely do
that's something that we can you can modify that to zero if you want it's not so much that it's zero because I think at some point you're going to have to you've done your best to to get them to compliance um I just wouldn't want to see a that fee imposed on anyone just
because you didn't offer them and I'm sure you would I just don't know who in the future will be in your position if they will be as kind to give them that opportunity so I think well that's not even within our that would go to the judge whomever I'm just saying I think
we can we're Township residents who have a business in the township uh we should offer some sort of opportunity for them to reach compliance prior to the fee imposed that's all I'm asking uh prior to the Fine the fine sorry yeah fee I
can understand do do we have an appreciation for the uptake amongst municipalities on putting into effect ordinances with regard to this
law um I mean I recall the language say municipality May passive War yeah I there's I I mean I think I saw at least three of them I don't know about are you talking about like enforcing and if they're like in
out no I'm talking about going yeah putting it into effect an ordinance I can take a look and see how many ordinances I see just in the ones I know but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're I mean they could still be getting registrations without an
ordinance they're just not imposing a fine and imposing a fee uh yes yes I appreciate that okay so then I think uh unless anyone objects this Pro this would appear to
require further consideration further Dialogue on this and I think the second portion of it is how proactive are you going to be on small businesses and the township to collect the fee is a secondary question
with regard to the violations and penalties a possible Amendment would be on the first offense some I've seen in other areas language like first offense there shall be no fine type of a deal and then as long as compliance within a
c number of days or something like that I have an upcoming uh Clerk's association meeting I can find out from the the other clerks how many towns are proactively doing something and yeah that' be be great too I think that the only issue with as you're making that amendment is if you're proactively
sending notifications out does that mean that they are in uh violation if it's found out later right which I think is the answer is yes because you properly notify them right well either way
they're in violation correct so but you you're saying First Defense and if you're proactive sorry I'm jumping ahead but should you send out a proactive notification to them and they still don't comply then that would be
technically the second offense which Cas no no you've got to got a you've got to got a violation so you're you're going to get a violation either way you're going to have to have you know be found to a violate like you're not going to get setting out the notification doesn't S doesn't count as a first offense you
got to found to violated first so that no that wouldn't be a second sorry just what's the what's the benefit of of res of these entities filing with this comp well aside from compliance is there any it's just so we know that
compant um what it is is the state not wanting to take on responsibility and making sure there's compliance with the statute and passing it on to the municipalities to keep track of it okay so that's why they have to register with the municipalities but the state wanting to make sure that businesses have the
proper insurance I mean the benefit and it's a soft benefit to the township is knowing that they exist and who they are and having the database should you want to contact them for other purposes other reasons we have that right now we were just talking you know some towns will have a requirement to register a
business with a municipality as well we don't have that here some towns do that at like $5 $10 you have that so that way if you want to send out a notification on anything that might affect businesses you can do that you know we've got you know bits and pieces you can compile
sort of lists like that right it's not going to be complete but you could look at commercial properties that are registered and designated as such through the tax assessor's office you could look at the you know the landlords that register for you know under the landlord tenant registration law you
could look under the fire Marshall's office and look at who's being done you know who's getting life Hazard and non-life Hazard inspections so in different ways there's registrations for different purposes and you can Cobble together one master list but it's not
comprehensive like the private practitioner running a business out of their own home but just to be clear whether or not we adopt the ordinance they're still required to register with us yeah no the part that I didn't understand is I thought they were also having to register with the state so in
terms of ensuring compliance I thought the state was taking care of that but you're saying that's gotten downloaded to the municipal that's what the state tends to do though I mean they did that with the Le inspection law right what you know very easy for the state to they're making every town now look at either hiring their own employee or
hiring the vendor or Outsourcing it when they could have just said we already have the Bureau of housing let's have the state's Bureau of housing do this or you know there's a lot of things that the Stag just passes down to municipalities and makes us eat the cost and the uh the process of that okay
thank you okay um any questions on the report from the clerk uh moving on Construction and building department we got the report there any questions under Finance um over the next
month or two we've got the C Bank ordinance that we'd like to introduce and adopt that one comes up every year uh if we do move ahead with it it's just something that has to sequentially be done before the uh adoption of the municipal budget we are looking at introducing the municipal budget at the
March uh 25th meeting we are hoping to have a presentation to the public at the March 11th Workshop meeting so uh we can introduce the cap Bank ordinance either at the February 25th meeting or at the March 25th meeting if it's at the March 25th meeting just T to be higher up on
the agenda than the budget uh the Cap B ordinance is uh one of those things that is a matter of procedure to make sure that anything from the cap Bank well it does two things one is says are we banking anything and also increases what
that cap is uh it can be done together or separated out uh it's been done in previous years it does not mean taxes are going up it does not raise taxes that's not what any of that does uh but the ordinance is largely templated from
the state and we just the blanks any questions or concerns on that no um thoughts as to when you like it introduced can we move ahead with that at the next meeting or would like that
the March meeting find at the next meeting might as well get it February 25th okay thank you and I think just to fill out the context so this is already uh this is an ordinance uh this was already done the prior year
correct so and so we're just continuing that practice into this coming year it's been done in my understanding nearly nearly every year except for maybe I think one or two in the last five years where it was uh misrepresented and misconstrued and uh politicized but it
really is uh you know none of the misrepresentations were accurate about it uh it is something that most municipalities do it is just a tool in your tool box and um a tool and toolbox for this and future governing bodies public work uh police any
questions on the report there public works uh we received oh sorry sorry I have a question on the police um just so I'm a little clear because there was some back and forth on the funding for the the fiber fiber optic
Loop so we never received the funds we had gotten a Federal grant we never received the funds it's 850,000 about and then there was some concern that we didn't have funds but now we think we have the funds my concern is do what are
the drivers only because we're going to spend the money and then are we going to get the money back sure so uh I'll offer a little more clarification on that so we were awarded the grant we didn't ever actually get the money with a lot of the federal funds they draw down so you
submit draw down requests periodically through a system and part of that also includes reporting so we made an award to a contractor in November or December and they did start work but nothing
tangible in terms of actual construction we're still in the administrative and procedural process we have to go through Verizon to implement the lease agreement which you've authorized uh there's a lot of drawings and specs that stuff to get approved engine ing that has to go
through Verizon for us to uh be able to use the polls uh we made that award and then in January towards the end of the month we got a notification from the federal government that the last chance to draw down any funds was January 28th
or 29th essentially said if you've got any draw Downs that you want to make this is your last chance to do them which essentially meant that it was frozen until further Direction so um part of the contract that we Ed to the vendor had a clause that we could
suspend the the contract and so we did put them immediately on notice to say hey here's what the federal government said you're on notice the project is suspended because we don't know what's going to happen we didn't really draw down anything yet we didn't have any expenses at that point to worry about
draw down and then shortly thereafter it was quote unfrozen and uh it we were told we could go ahead and so the project is proceeding as normal um but the risk that it could be Frozen at any time or we don't we don't know we can't
predict what could happen under this Administration over the course of this project so um that's where we're at did that answer the question yeah this is nothing we can do about it it's a punchline the I mean the only thing we can do about it is decide
that we don't want to proceed with the project it's too much of a risk and we don't want to proceed with the project uh and to cancel the contract help me understand the risk so so we haven't yet um put in our contribution to it and so
it's unfrozen in theory and the project will move forward uh based on based on a progressing for and us being able to draw down the funds and and and the township putting up its own money so there there's a risk there that
we end up spending money and not having a completed project correct um is there anything we can do as far as uh accelerating the draw down and using
no the draw down is going to be based on actual costs and the reports so you know let's say we order fiber and Verizon has fees that they've charged us and you know those would go into the next reporting period and and into the next draw down cycle so we would just draw them down as quickly as we possibly can
as soon as we have expenses but that's that's it uh but at some point let's say you order old fiber I'm just you know you order the fiber and then the project is frozen can whatever happens with the feds we'd be stuck with all this fiber and we would have to decide do we want
to bond for the project do we want to undertake it ourselves or do we want to cancel and maybe auction the fiber keep keep our receipts keep our receipts return exactly return it um we don't know how what is the length of project
uh time yeah um I don't know off the top of my head I do have a project schedule um I I can get you that time frame I don't want to miss spe on that it's 800 some, project what is it's more than it's a little bit more than that but
this trch is right so uh yeah what would what's our theoretical contribution as this project progresses call our are you talking about in terms of like matching a large part of that has already been uh
made because part of the grant proposal included cameras and other security equipment that were part of this project so uh our argument and our uh essentially our report is that we've already undertaken those we didn't wait but they were all part of the scope of
the grant okay so for the most part our contribution has already been uh been made so really it's just a a process of work actually taking place and then drawing down federal funds to reflect the portion of the work that's been
completed correct okay so if you says playing with house going forward okay all right I just wanted to understand the risks there on our side so we do the budget if we can have some kind of sense of what the impact would be for having to take on an additional 850,000 in
debt right now what the impact would be another $850,000 I I'm just a couple of my clients get federal funds and we did not get funds that were already appropriated previous years they said no I'm sorry don't get
it even with the froze Frozen unfrozen un like it's been a Scramble for the past couple weeks trying to get funding this is a nonprofit now this is a you know this gets into the debate where I've already talked to some folks at different levels of the federal government where they say this isn't
necessarily uh agency or departmental discretionary funding in other words this isn't like a a grant that um like safe roots to schools for example right we make that application safe roots to schools that's through the state but the state is getting Federal pass through funds and
that's from the do that's different than this because this is actually congressionally directed spending now the argument about how much weight Congress has and the argument between what the executive and the the uh the legislative do here but this is these
are funds that were specifically earmarked appropriated and authorized by Congress specifically for these purposes as opposed to the Department of Transportation saying here's within our budget you know $10 billion for infrastructure and they're going to Dole it out as they want each one of these
specific projects was approved by Congress so there is the feeling that these can't be withheld or held up in the same way that other federal funds could but now you're just telling me our safe roots to school money can yes and
and those are um I mean we still have not been able to proceed with those yeah I was just going to say yeah we've got three three grants going back to contribution is material in yeah so um those are slightly
different than this those could be Frozen um at least the argument could be made that those could be frozen but this can't but who knows all of this will end up in the Judiciary trying to sort out whether there is uh the legal authority to
proceed with something like that or not so sorry this is just cascading um so every year we do get uh dot funds for our um Paving project those are just State that's State correct okay any other funds at risk that we should be
aware of um I believe potenti anything that would be a federal pass through Grant again they've sort of all been unfrozen Frozen un you know that's a weird word they even use for these um but the safe roots to schools which are
all pass through grants from the federal government to the state are the only ones that I can think of I'd have to confirm whether the Green Village connector Trail would because that's a tap Grant that's a transportation Alternatives Grant which I think is also a pass through okay yeah if we can kind
if you can kind of let us cuz we had a whole bunch of projects planned underway I mean that safe Ru school's been 12 years out now it's crazy uh but it would be nice to get all that implemented and if we could figure out what whether or not we think things will
go through or more likely to go through or and how much we would be in the hook or fortunately for we spent money and I we're going to keep spending money and if and then if it gets cut off at some point it's kind of well with those four grants we haven't spent anything that uh you know it's would only it's definitely
three safe Roots the schools 14 16 and 18 and then the question mark is to confirm whether the tap grant for green vill connector Trail would fall under that category or not but on all four of those we haven't spent monies directly
related to those Grant Scopes that we were authorized for uh you know there's been engineering cost but whether they were frozen or not we were eating those costs anyways uh and then with the Green Village connector Trail we haven't even gotten to that yet because we haven't
even we're still at the permitting stage which would be the first part which were County grants yeah well a lot of the design funds were grant money so we don't have any a lot of money out of pocket I don't think for any of them no exactly so none of those is there really a risk for at this point money that
we've put out or will be putting out that uh could be in Jeopardy okay but certainly should should we find ourselves at a juncture where you know there is a dispersement on our side that's forthcoming or uh yeah we obviously want to we'd have
to revisit this and yeah and you would know because we would we haven't made Awards to con for any contracts on any of them yet so U that would be the trigger is when we make an award for contracts so we haven't even gotten an authorization to uh actually we went out
to bid on the first one the 2014 safe roots to schools and every time we I think we're on our fourth I think we're on the fourth one they keep getting rejected by the state because the biders aren't complying with requirements uh so that would be the trigger and they're
not going to get to the other ones until that one is awarded most unfortunate disruptions but you know I'm sure you'll keep us apprised of any situations where it's our time to yeah got to check and we want to make sure that money doesn't
fall into a into a hole where project doesn't get completed because they're relying on the release of funds right thank you uh Public Works uh we received their
report and uh we also included the annual snow and ice report I do think it's important for the public uh if I may highlight just so they understand the scope of one what their tax dollars are paying for and what the weather uh has been resulting in in terms of work
for DPW uh there's been and this is for 2024 so ending December 31st uh about 335 regular hours and 431 overtime hours in total related to snow and ice storms
uh or incidents uh it's required us to purchase and disperse 565 almost 566 tons of salt and 8,46 gallons of salt brine uh those are at a cost that combined the salt and the
salt salt brine are at a cost of almost $52,000 and the uh some additional plowing through contractors that we use to support uh is an extra $4200 Mr shot how does this compare with our budget and our
expectations um we've had you know it's we we've been within our budget uh I'll say we have not been um resulting any emergencies that require any um reflection on you know
insufficient funds budgeted or allocated we look at these year after year in terms of our budget planning so what we hope to do though is build a reserve which is something that uh has not happened in the Township in recent years or I'm not sure if it's happened at all
U some towns will have a reserve it used to be just for snow and the states expanded that reserve for other things uh like natural disasters and then during Co they allowed the use of that so any funds that uh DPW within certain lines that have not been expended
ordinarily they would roll into the reserve and then they would are the general budget reserve and then into the fund balance uh what we could do is take those funds rather than have them go into the fund balance have them roll into a snow and emergency weather
Reserve so that we could build on that uh and and have a safety cushion in the event that there is an emergency whether it's a declared emergency or wise that we can tap into those funds so as to not burden the general budget uh for that given
year and it's something that we'd like to do it's it's good planning is is are we making preparations for this budget to have have that incorporated or consideration so come March when uh things are wrapping up for the 2024 budget and we
know what's left that's when we'll be making the decision of whether we have how much funds we have out of those appropriate DPW line items to roll into a reserve and whether we want to do that or or not and just let them roll into the the fun balance balance
okay yeah I was going to say with the uh storm next storm next two storms possibly in the next week or so um it's not letting up but this is particularly snowier than season past around here uh so anyway I think they've done a
terrific job of clearing the roads and uh keeping residents safe so uh recognize how much work they've gone into it it's just terrific yeah our dpws is really fantastic they are very very careful with uh how they not only just
ensure safety on the roads but how they manage overtime and their resources uh the mayor and I were in close contact this weekend especially with Saturday storm and uh you know he got to hear from me firsthand on how uh they make
that decision and how they try to make sure that they're not just casually sitting around waiting for a storm incurring costs that are unnecessary so we've got great supervisors there but great Crews that take uh very good care
of the town's resources yes uh and so mayor that is it for DPW tax collector and tax assessor any question on their reports okay that concludes door thank
you Mr sh thank you all and now proceed to the second hearing of citizens uh Mr lanti is there anyone who wishes to speak online I do not have any hands raised thank you uh I now invite anyone um should they choose to do so to come
before the mic I see no one so I now close the second hearing of citizens I ask if there's a motion to adjourn so much second second all in favor hi
I thank you good meeting reporting sto you guys take credit cards for the $45 fee Square send to theer I