[Music] [Music] Welcome everyone to the July 17th meeting of the Cadam Zoning Board of Appeals here in Chattam, Massachusetts
pursuant to Governor Healey's Massachusetts March 28, 2025, signing a chapter 2 of the act 2025 extending certain covert me co measures adopted during the state of emergency uh suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law until June 30, 2027.
Seven. This meeting of the Cadam Zoning Board of Appeals is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided far in the order. A reminder, persons who'd like to listen to the meeting while in progress
may do so by calling 1508-9454410 conference ID 402819489 pound or join the meeting view via the link on Microsoft Teams posted on the agenda. This is a live broadcast and simoc cast. However, despite our best
efforts, we may not be able to provide real time access. We will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. In accordance with town policy, the public can speak to any issue or hearing um or or business item
on the agenda during the meeting when recognized by the chair. I will give you the um procedural steps that we will have today. But before I do that, I would ask that everybody shut off any gadget that makes any noise whatsoever,
please. And if you have conversations that are going to be more than one to two sentences, please take them in the hall. First, we take a roll call vote of vote of all board members. We ask if anybody participating um online would
just be sure to let us know who you are. Make that evident. Um we will have the hearing notice read by staff. Sarah Clark on my right and the um in this case Penrose um is the applicant and they will give um the first opening
statements and then um I will summarize all letters received by the board. Um then there will be comments for up to three minutes and that will be in the category of for or against or questions.
Everybody will have three minutes and then the applicant will have a chance to rebut anything that they heard or that I stated in the letters. We will then um continue the application to a date certain and all votes are taken by roll
call and at the end of the meeting we will close via verbal confirmation and note the time of adjournment. Okay. So the applicant Oh actually roll call vote. I am sorry. Yeah. All right. Just making sure everybody's awake. All
right. So, um, let's have a roll call vote. Starting with, um, Virginia Fenwick. Virginia Fenwick, I approve. Steven D. Deborne, I approve. Lee Hubby, I approve. Paul C. Simple. I approve this form of meeting. Uh, Ed Actton, I approve. David H. Vich, I approve.
And Randy Pod, I also approve this form of meeting. Okay. Sarah. Application number 25-034, Penrose LLC, 15 Milk Street, 16th floor, Boston, Mass 02109.
The property is owned by the Town of Cadam, located at 0 and 1533 Main Street. Also shown on the Town of Cadam's assessor's map 9D, block 4A, lot 1 and map 9D, block 4, lot 18. The applicants are requesting the grant of a comprehensive permit under Mass General
Law Chapter 40B sections 20 through 23 and 760 CMR 56 for the construction of 48 dwelling units in nine structures. Also proposed is the construction of a management building. The applicants are requesting the grant of various waiverss from regulations promulgated by the
Cadam zoning bylaw, the Chattam Water and Sewer Department and other local regulations. The property contains 128,492 square feet, 2.95 acres in an R20 zoning district. This was continued from May 8th and June 5th, 2025.
Welcome Penrose and uh attorney Singer. Good afternoon. Uh for the record, my name is Andrew Singer, attorney in Dennisport. Here on behalf of the applicant, uh with us today in uh from Penrose, standing next to me is Rio Saketi. We also have Carmen Chung and
Charlie Adams. Um for other consultants who will be speaking with you today we have Paul Adaman from Union Studios, Joe Henderson from Horesley Whitten and Mark Warfl from Crowley Carter. We uh had submitted a revised or supplemental
submission to you last week. Um I wanted to start out have a series of presentations today and I just wanted to start out by you know acknowledging and appreciating that this is a complex project with many competing and passionate interests. Um, after our presentations today, uh, the
correspondence, uh, public testimony, your initial comments and questions, as the chair noted in the order, um, we, uh, hope to and desire to engage in a dialogue with you this afternoon, uh, and as a way to move the process, the review process forward, um, before we then know we'll ultimately be continued,
um, to allow peer review to continue. Um, today we will review that supplemental submission that I mentioned to you. It includes uh a review of the numerous changes that the project has undergone since the initial filing of the RFP.
This plan um and uh there have been several more changes that are made in the plans today. We just have this uh landscape plan up while I'm speaking and then the team will be going through um various plans. This is just to help orient you as I'm speaking. I'll be speaking a little bit more generally as
to the 40B and and some of the more overall history and process. the we know that um even with all the changes that have been made um they're not going to satisfy all parties, but they are have been and continue to be
substantively responsive to the comments, questions, and issues that have been raised while still enabling the project that was selected by the town to remain consistent with the RFP award to be workable for the applicant who's also the operator and manager of
the site and to create a safe, desirable, and livable able environment for the residents and the community on the property. Um, I know there are numerous uh additional new letters of public support in the file that are going to be read today. There is also a letter from the fire department supporting the design as submitted,
which is what you're seeing up on the screen right now. The responses that we had in the supplemental submission and they're going to uh govern how we present to you today uh were broken down and grouped into the categories of project history, program and design which I'm going to
talk about. Um uh Penrose is then going to speak briefly and then we're going to get into architecture, civil site design, transportation, and finally landscaping. The legal standard that you look at in a in a comprehensive permit application is whether the development is consistent
with local needs. This requires a balancing test and a series of compromises among several worthwhile and often competing local rules, regulations, policies, and desires. That need for balance in this case, I think through the first two sessions we've had
with you, is particularly demonstrated. You have letters and you've heard testimony in support, opposed, and with questions. And in these letters, in some of the testimony, there are several instances where certain suggestions and comments in one letter or comment
directly compete and contradict another. It just shows that everything can't be achieved. It's the whole point of 40B. There has to be a balance. And for good or bad, that is the uh the burden that you have is to do that balancing of the testimony that you hear. And so that's
what we're here presenting to you on. This is very typical of these types of developments. Um it's why you are tasked and consider matters of not just zoning, but you have everything. You're looking at zoning, environment, health, safety, site design, open space, landscaping,
historic, and planning. You're you're everybody. And those are all the considerations that you have to take into consideration as you're looking at the project as you're looking at the waiverss that are requested and you know the overall development. In connection with what everyone
acknowledges is an urgent housing need in Chattam and crisis here. The goal of both your review and the proposal is to provide affordable and attainable housing in accordance with state law and Chattam housing guidance. I'd like to talk a little bit about the project history and the program design.
The town issued the RFP for this project for development of housing on this site back in February of 2024. There were three responses uh from reputable developers with deep experience in creating housing that that were submitted to the town. After an extensive review process, the town the
select board awarded the contract uh a year ago July to Penrose. Since that time, Penrose has expended extensive time, effort, and money in designing and engineering a suitable development consistent with the overall design
proposal accepted by the select board. The applicant has also reached out to and met with the Chattam Planning Board, the Affordable Housing Trust, Community Housing Partnership, historic committees, public safety departments, and other groups in town. All three of the proposals that were
originally submitted to the SEC select board in response to the RFP. Um, they all included a consistent design layout with a circular drive and buildings arranged around the outer uh the outside and/or inside of the loop driveway. Now, the proposals differed in numbers,
styles, and heights of the buildings. Some of them were larger, some of them were smaller. Um, however, they all provided affordable and attainable housing on this land with its frontage on Route 28 in a generally consistent layout that you see here. The demand for this housing is such that
something unique happened in this proposal. the other applicants, the other parties that had submitted proposals for the RFP who were not selected. Penrose was selected, but those entities got together and they've submitted a letter in your file. So, you
have a letter from housing assistance, preservation of affordable housing and community development partnership and they they jointly are providing their support for this proposal and they wrote in part that quote in Chadam the need for housing for our workforce workforce
is particularly acute. The availability of this land and the town's willingness to support this project provides a special opportunity to make a meaningful difference. This parcel is particularly well suited for multif family housing as it is adjacent to public transport and within walking distance of the many
small businesses along Route 28. In addition, the Chattam Housing Partnership submitted a memorandum of support to you, noting, quote, "Members of the CCHP are supportive of the density as it addresses the overwhelming need for housing in Chadam and provides
much needed rental housing in support of our workforce. The density and type of housing proposed also reflect the goals of the recently approved housing production plan. Members also are supportive of the overall architectural style, which we feel is consistent with Chadam character. Following our
discussion of the proposed project, the CCHP voted unanimously with all members present to support the project. In addition, the Cape Cod Commission, as you've heard before, is a local board for purposes of chapter 40B. That's their designation, and they issue they review projects like a planning board
would in the housing partnership. And they issued a letter as well to you. And in part, the commission wrote, "The regional policy plan community design goal seeks to promote co contextsensitive design that uses traditional Cape Cod materials and forms while minimizing development footprints
and adverse impacts to scenic resources. The proposed Penrose design of the 48-unit development is sensitive to the form and scale of Main Street and West Chadam, consistent with the community design goal of the RPP. The project provides a context-sensitive design for the property, mimicking both the scale
and setback of existing buildings in the vicinity along Main Street. The project is sensitive to local context and designed to protect and enhance natural and community resources. Importantly, the project addresses the urgent and growing need for affordable housing in
both the town of Chattam and the broader Cape Cod region. End quote. The commission letter also actually had a suggestion. I think we referenced it last month where they asked if the front if the parking could be pulled back behind the front facades of the building and that has been done and when we go
through when the consultants go through all the uh technical changes on the plans you will know you will see that that has been done. Um, one thing we would like to address, and I'm going to address it now, and Joe Henderson's going to from Horesley Whiten will address it a little bit in
more detail later, is that there has been an incredible amount of reference in both testimony and letters that have come in to you. Um, referencing an alternative design proposal that was prepared and submitted by a neighbor to the property. This alternative proposal
was presented informally to several boards and commissions in town subsequent to the prior reviews they held with the applicant on the applicant's proposal. The after these meetings with the neighbor on this alternative design meetings to which the applicant was not notified of
or invited so didn't know it was happening. Some of the boards and commissions thereafter recommended and referenced this sketch plan in varying degrees. And you see it coming up repeatedly in the in the um letters that you see particularly from uh Mr. Levit. This alternative conceptual sketch
proposal that these other boards reviewed was not to scale and had not been prepared by a professional engineer. Now last week uh Mr. Levit did submit a plan. It was said to be engineered version of his plan. However, like its unscaled counterpart, this plan
is not viable for several technical reasons. And as I mentioned, Mr. um Henderson will will discuss those in more detail, but uh some of the specific ones are that it directly does not comply with the fire department requirements for the town of Chadam as
set forth in the fire department's letter. Um it also does not comply with state building code requirements for building separation. And there are some other deficiencies. It would cram the development on the land uh to the front and it would destroy any interior neighborhood feel with a sea of asphalt
uh in the middle where uh the applicant is proposing that community green with the saved grouping of vegetation and trees that are there already. Now, beyond these technical deficiencies, however, even if this third-party plan
hypothetically did not have them, there is a larger concern with the plan. Specifically, the alternative design is not what the applicant submitted in response to the RFP. It is not the design initially reviewed with and complemented by both the select board
and the planning board. It is not the design that was the basis of the town's award of the RFP project to Penrose and it is not the design for rental housing that was submitted to this board for comprehensive review and nor is it
acceptable to the applicant for all of the reasons you'll hear discussed this afternoon. And that I believe respectfully is the biggest problem with this alternative sketch plan. The applicant's proposal, to the contrary, is designed and engineered to provide a safe, efficient, attractive, and well-th
thoughtout housing development, meeting all requirements for the fire department, for storm water, for wastewater, uh, for landscaping. As a 40B application, the proposed development we submit respectfully, meets the intent of the Chattam housing production plan to quote, increase
Chadam's affordable, attainable, and accessory housing stock end quote. The development is to be located on town land with an experienced developer, both selected by the town through a public process and vetted by the state with the
issuance of the project eligibility letter. We respectfully submit that the proposal is consistent with local needs. That's the legal standards I mentioned that you look at. Um, with that, we appreciate uh your time listening to this introduction. Um, Mr. Sketi would like to speak and then we're going to
turn it over to everyone else to go through the details on the plans. Thank you. Oh, and I just like to say we welcome questions whether it's now, later, and throughout the afternoon. Thanks, Andrew. Uh, actually, what I'd like to do now is to transition um over
to our design team who can walk you through the next several slides, um, showing the changes made. Can folks hear me? Yes. Okay, perfect. Can I just, when you say changes made, are we taking it from last meeting? Would that be possible or do we have to
go back to the beginning of time? We have a couple slides that just go back to the beginning. A couple slides only and then it gets very quickly into and then we could focus. I mean because you know by your own um admission you want to get focused. So so do we.
Yeah. Good. Okay. And with that I'll um transition over to Paul Atman with Union Studios to start with um the architectural design. Hello everyone. Good afternoon. Um I my focus right now is not so much the
specifics of architectural design because we reviewed that quite in detail last time, but I'll begin with some of the things that Mr. Singer had suggested in looking back at the RFP response and how we responded to those objectives
specifically. uh primarily providing affordable deed affordable housing uh that is modest preference for rental. We also really worked hard on the design and aesthetics that was outlined in the
RFP by proposing multiple buildings, outdoor amenities for recreation and landscaping with native species. The this is not a proposal with a single building or two big buildings or single family homes. This is one with missing
middle from housing that have has three to six units in each of the buildings. That sort of typology provides a very necessary density to be able to create housing, much needed housing on Cape Cod
and to provide a range of unit types and live uh options from onebedrooms, two bedrooms, three bedrooms as well as accessible units. The buildings are smaller in scale. They are not apartment buildings uh that one
would think they are. They're uh as I mentioned three to six units in each building. So very small in comparison to what one would think as a apartment building is. They're designed for energy efficiency to uh meet the Massachusetts
stringent energy code and also prov uh meet Penrose's standards and uh project goals of passive house design aligned and then exceptional rental management which Penrose does very well and they'll
be able to talk about they talked about that in previous meetings. So since that RFP and m uh response and submission, we've been working hard as Mr. Singer had mentioned. Some of the things I'd like to point out are some of the changes that you already know about.
We arranged building locations throughout the site to make sure that the taller ones are furthest away from a Butters. We increased the amount of parking from what the proposed 1.3 to now the 1.75 as a compromise and uh refining of the
parking and the site design to not overburden the site would uh too much uh impervious pavement but also provide uh the parking per a lot of people's concerns. We also worked on relocating the trash enclosures and recycling
enclosures to be further away from the property lines and from the butters. We preserved and incorporated mature trees. We went out and flagged all all of the mature trees and were able to incorporate a majority of them into our
landscape design. We also refined the community green uh along the way. Uh the landscape architect has done a great job of incorporating those landscape features into a common green that is enjoyed by
all of the residents of our proposal. Looking now toward a little bit of the architecture. Uh we reduced all the bu all the heights of the residential buildings. Three buildings were reduced to be below 30 feet as requested and six
buildings were reduced by one foot entirely. uh we reduced the brought down the entire second and floor and the roof down by a foot and that is outlined in your supplemental uh information that was submitted last week but also we went
over that in detail at our last meeting. We're continuing to refine the architectural materials and the finishes and details to respect the Chattam character and meet the H uh the historic b business district uh district's uh
design guidelines and procedures. We've also reduced the size of the management building by 18%. That is a new change. We eliminated the fitness room and created a much smaller footprint. Reduced it by 18%. What this also helped
us do is reduce the uh setback waiver requested along Main Street or Route 28. And I'd like to turn this over now to Joe Henderson. Hi, good afternoon. Joe Henderson. I'm a
civil engineer with Horsesley Whitten and I'd like to walk through starting with some of the site plan updates that we've provided. So, you should have received an updated site, utility, and grading plan along
with the vehicle circulation plan. Um, the the updates um include like Paul mentioned the smaller footprint and the revised management building footprint and um adding that resulted in uh an increased setback along the right of way
uh uh from 1.8T 8 ft to now 15 ft separation from the property line. Um, additionally, as attorney Singer mentioned, we've revised the uh parking along Main Street to meet the Cape Cod Commission uh suggestions that was
10-foot uh set back from the front of the building edge is what they requested for all parking. Uh that resulted in three locations as shown on the the red circles to the north. one spot lost in each of those locations. So that would
be a a total of three space spaces reduced. Um thirdly, um we made some changes to uh the dumpster location in the the western property line. You can see that is also circled there. Um we
reduced that by two parking spaces and slid the dumpster over. uh and that resulted in an increase in buffer from 13.8 feet to 22.7 feet. Um overall five
spaces were reduced from the project. So our parking ratio went from 1.85 to 1.75 parking spaces per dwelling unit. So, we also included a fire vehicle um circulation plan for the the town's
ladder truck. Um as attorney Singer mentioned, um the fire department provided a a letter and that letter uh did support our proposal for a 24 foot wide roadway with two-way uh travel. Um
we have been working with them um on this layout and there was also a comment in that letter uh asking about the um proximity of our uh turning radiuses to parking spaces. So that's what I've
shown here. This blowup is a visual of the area around building three. Uh those green lines you see on this plan, those represent the vehicle chassis and the red lines represent the vehicle body or the wheels. We have a um a program that
we use to uh basically drive the the fire truck around the property to ensure that the chassis and the wheels are on asphalt and none of the chassis swings will actually hit uh potentially parked vehicles within the parking spaces. So
um per the fire department's comment in their letter, we have updated our plan, we do plan to uh submit a revised plan that demonstrates, you know, full compliance with their requirements. Uh next, I thought I would touch on some
of the comments that we've had throughout the process um just in related to different, you know, site design items. Um the first being well first off the um some of these comments are traffic related and we have had
discussions with the traffic engineer uh that's Vaness Associates um and they're not here but we have reviewed these items with them and gotten their input. Um so first off is the one-way circulation. Um, we've looked at both uh two and one-way circulation at the site
and uh we feel that the the two-way circulation is the safest option and that also is what's preferred uh by the fire department as they stated in their letter. Um the oneway when you look at the one-way option uh the concern is that if a
vehicle enters the project and say misses the a parking space uh to get back or to to get back to a parking space they have to exit the site and enter back through the entrance. So you'd have to re uh leave the site onto
28, come back into the property, and again that would add to traffic concerns along 28. So that is that is one of the major issues there. There's also been a question about right turn only exit. And
um with the right turn only exit, a vehicle that wanted to take a lefthand turn out of the project site would then have to take a right, travel to the safest location, wherever that may be, and then turn around and go back. And
again, similarly, that's a traffic concern for 28. Um it also would potentially burden the uh the local roads too. Uh traffic signals and signalized intersections. Um
the traffic engineer looked at this and uh they noted that the scope of this project um fall short of the size would warrant a traffic signal um on a state highway. um signalized intersection specifically or a midblock crossing also
is unlikely to be approved by Mass DOT um at this site given its proximity to the the roundabout and there's a um there's already a crossing there. uh pedestrian traffic um crossings. Again, similarly, uh the traffic
engineer's opinion is that um this location wouldn't meet the warrants specified for that type of um signal here. So, it's related to the traffic code. Traffic calming has also come up. Uh
speed tables um are not warranted in a project of this scope. Um however um mainly because they do cause a a plowing issue, chipping um breaking up with plowing and it's a maintenance issue
there. Uh but however that I think the um crosswalks could be painted and made of a a different type of material such as a paver and I think that would um assist in any type of um traffic calming that could be done here at this site
based on its scope and size. the um trash and recycling enclosures. Um there's two trash enclosures for the project. They each one would have a
dumpster and a recycle bin. So the they're enclosures that contain several bins that would be used for the residents. And based on Penrose's experience, something like that is adequate for a project of this size.
Uh and lastly the pvious parking pvious parking is not something we would recommend for any for a multif family use. Um it becomes a maintenance issue needs to be um you know maintained very frequently to actually function as as
pvious. So we would say that our project has been designed with its storm water treatment system infiltration treatment to to manage the storm water per the Massachusetts storm water regulations and I expect that the um peer review
engineer will look at that very closely. So lastly, I just wanted to offer some plan uh comments on the alternative engineered plan that uh attorney Singer mentioned. Um first off, the the plan has a 16 foot
wide uh road and as I mentioned before, this um does not u mesh with what the fire department um would like to see. the the outriggers on the fire vehicle when extended are 17 1/2 ft. So this um
the truck could not extend its outriggers um within the roadway as shown. Um and also 20 ft is the minimum per the national fire safety standard and again I think that's referenced within the uh fire department's plan.
Um oneway road. So the one-way roadway again this is a one-way road. I talked about one way earlier, but um two-way travel is is preferred or is mentioned in and supported by in the fire department's letter um that the
board has. Um, if a car, as I mentioned before, if a car enters the site and it's a one-way road and it turns into, say, the first parking stall and it doesn't find a parking space, it has to circulate back onto 28 to get back into
the site. So, that uh is a is potential to create that traffic circulation issue. Um also, um the all the aisles are 16 feet in width and even though they're
angled, um that is not uh conducent to good conditions, especially if there's a pickup truck, say that parks in a parking place and there's cars surrounding it. Um that's not a we don't feel that's a safe situation with that
narrow width backing in and backing out. the building spacing. Attorney Singer mentioned that um this is um less than what's typically required in uh for building code and fire protection. Um
plan showed a separation as low as 11 ft between buildings. Um trash and recycling, there's only one dumpster location um as opposed to the applicant has two locations. So just note that
said a few more parking just pointing out the parking parking ratio is 1.3 verse the applicant who's proposing 1.75 spaces and the the plan shows a large central
um asphalt parking area and um we typically um see when you have a large asphalt area like this it's more difficult diffult to manage the runoff particularly generates a lot of runoff in one location. So you'd have to treat
collect treat and infiltrate that runoff. So as opposed to the applicants proposal which has four tree trenches throughout the property uh to underground chamber systems. Um the other point I'd like to make is just the
um it's harder to shade if you have a large parking area. So that can contribute to um what they call the heat island effect, which is just you've you know higher temperatures in that area. Everyone's been out in a giant parking
lot in the summer generates a lot of heat. Um and lastly, I just point out the the rear community green. Um it's located um up against the uh the south, I guess, of the property. Um and it's really not centrally located to the
community. um as opposed to the the applicants plan where the community green is central to the people that are living there. The people can see their children if they're playing in the playground. They can um congregate
together in close proximity to their um neighbors and it's just a more safe situation. Also, there there were no amenities I didn't see shown on the alternative engineering plan. Um and it just seemed like that was shown more of um I would say a buffer to the neighbors
as opposed to what we would uh consider a community green. So it just didn't have uh the same neighborhood feel. I think with that um I'm going to transfer over to Mark to talk about landscape
and and as I said last time you're all welcome to sit down. You know we know you're here and uh prefer to stand if that's okay. Yep. Absolutely. Good afternoon. Uh my name is Mark Warfl. I'm a landscape architect with Crowley Cotrol. Uh
I'm going to pick up right where Joe left off on the changes to the site. Um so we've updated the the landscape site plan which was um provided to you in the supplemental submission. Uh and I just want to run through those updates here quickly. Um
the first piece is that with the changes to the the parking and the trash enclosure closure, we were able to increase uh the buffer size on the western edge of the property. And we've supplemented that with more planting as
well as a uh not only evergreen trees and screen trees, but um in the area where we have the two large evergreen trees that we're saving um just west of building three and building two, we've
provided um more evergreen shrubs to help close that gap. uh as well as on the southern property line, we've supplemented with more screen trees. Um internal to the project,
uh we've increased the planting that's along Main Street. So with the size change to the management building, um we've increased the planted buffer that's at the front of the building as well as on the um the side that faces
the road. So, it'll be a nice lush landscape with uh street trees as well as flowering trees. And then we have um a shrub layer and ground covers. So, there's some images of those plants
shown on the right of this slide. Um I want to turn back. We we saw these last time uh the sections with the abutters and um we submitted these slides as part of the supplemental submission but we can run through them
just to show uh the differences. Um so this is the section that we saw last time through 33 Jesse's Landing. Uh again, I would like to remind the board that uh building six is not seeking a waiver for the setback
and uh like we discussed last time, the the house on Jesse's Landing does a lot of the screening for us. So um building six will uh be adequately screened by the
existing house. Um, we were asked to look at the viewshed from the backyard. So, we've added in uh a scaled person here and projected out what their view might be
to the existing planted hedge that's on the abuing property, but also we've added screen planting uh along that southern edge. And as you'll see, the the planting does
a good job of adequately screening building six. Uh, and it'll only get better with time. So, as these plants grow and fill in, it's going to become more and more um opaque. Uh, moving to
25, Jesse's Landing. So, again, this is a an image that we saw last time. And uh the house is doing a good job of screening the building from the street, but we also looked at the view from the
backyard. And again, the existing uh planting as well as the additional planting um do an adequate job of screening the building. Uh I'd also like to remind the board again that this building 4 is not seeking any rear or sideyard setback waiverss or um height
waiver. And then moving to um the western property edge. So there's the existing private hedge that we'll be maintaining. Um shown in the the top right photo are those two
existing evergreen trees that were able to preserve and we'll be enhancing that buffer even more with evergreen shrubs underneath. and looking at the view from the backyard of the the Levit property. Uh that
existing private hedge as well as the supplemental planting that we'll be adding uh will hide much of building three. So, and again, building 3 does not um require a sideyard setback waiver
or a height waiver. Uh so I want to spend uh a few minutes talking about circulation within and out of the site. Um so this is the right site to connect
uh with the amenities of West Chadam. We we took a look and measured from the site to the nearest crosswalk is about 230 ft. Um which is roughly a two-minute walk. Um so Joe mentioned the reasons
why we can't introduce another sidewalk at this site across Main Street. Um but there already exists a crosswalk within a short distance. So, here's a Google Street View image from the the site and walking down the sidewalk that we'll be
connecting to on the south side of Main Street. Um, you'll be at the crosswalk right when you're at the Dunkin Donuts. Uh, here's an image of that crosswalk. There's also a crosswalk on the other side of the Rotary and across Barnhill
Road. Uh, this provide safe access to everything within this area. Um when we look at these connections, this is the extents you can reach within
a fivem minute walk. Um so from the site you'll be able to access by foot much of the amenities that are in West Chadam. uh and you know a little bit longer still you could reach even more.
Moving back to the project site, we've extended that circulation along Main Street to our uh eastern property edge. So, there's a sidewalk continued across the front of the project and
we've also introduced accessible crosswalks at the driveways. Uh, looking at internal pedestrian circulation, it really happens in in two loops. So, there's an outer loop that connects all of the buildings and the
parking um with two accessible crosswalks. And then we have an inner loop that connects the management building and all of the amenity spaces. Um, and I just want to remind that those amenities are
the management building, the mail station, the community gardens, playground, uh, there's a community terrace, and uh, the open space. And this is served by a number of crosswalks that are also
accessible. So in conclusion, we're providing um circulation with extensive circulation within the project uh that's fully accessible. Um, and
there's a lot of thought and care that has gone into making this a community- centered design. Um, with that, I'll turn it back over to the Penrose team. Thanks, Mark. Uh, I'm Rio with Penrose again and I'd like to bring up my
colleague Carmen as well. Um, I'm just going to quickly wrap up the presentation. Sort of bring it back to the beginning. Since the RFP up until today, a lot all this work we've been doing, the heart of it is um producing
units for for people for future residents. Um, we recently completed our fair project in Orleans. Um, and that's 62 units that started leasing in April and we received over 600 applications uh
on that project. So, I'm bringing it up because it's evidence that there's a significant need and there's real people out there that need housing um and that need housing right now. Um and our focus during this design has always been on on
um coming up with a development that has a high quality of life for the people live there. Um and secondly um have a have a development that can be professionally managed. And so I think you're familiar at this point with a lot of the design
highlights of our development. you know, we have this central green which um we believe fosters community. Um the village type feel u also is an area of connections um throughout the site. Uh we've also have uh the management
building which we've recently reduced. Um but that's still at the front where we uh see it as a welcoming front door for the development. Um also design highlights are um oh for the management
building that the location of that is also important because we have the property manager will be able to put eyes um all throughout the property and then that central green where a lot of the amenities and outdoor recreation is happening.
Um we've been making meaningful uh meaningful changes since we first came for the first hearing. Um those include uh reducing the height of buildings. Um we've revisited the site layout several
times. Um and that was done to increase buffers to a butters. Um we've also reduced the um management building as well based on concerns about the size of that building on Main Street. Um overall
our goal is to create a neighborhood feel um that we think is exhibits Chattam character. Uh and we think this development fits that. We also think that this is a development as designed that the people who will live there um
will be proud to live there. So Carmen, I'm not sure if you'd like to add anything. I have a quick thing to add. Um, I think I want to focus in on what Rio just said about how our focus in creating this
design is thinking about the resident's quality of life. Um, and there are residents, this is building attainable workforce housing. We're not pushing the design to rent it for more because this is going to be incomerestricted housing.
We're not pushing uh for design changes so that we can sell them for more. These are workforce housing units. Um and our goal is to make sure that everyone who lives here uh will be proud to live here. Our approach isn't that it's
workforce housing. There's so much demand. So whatever we build, they'll come. Our we really want to make sure that um the residents here have a good quality of life. Um, and as evidenced by what Rio said about our waiting list at
Orleans, every unit is one more family that we can house. And that's um really our focus here is really the residents that we're going to be um be able to welcome here uh hopefully sooner rather than later. Thank you.
Thank you. Does that complete your presentation for now or? Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. Great. So before I read the letters, I just want to say that we understand that you've done a lot of work and I just want to from our end, I just want you to know that we understand
our mandate and this board not only listens to you, but we listen to you at all the other meetings you've been at. Um we've we listen to the HBDC. I say listen, but could be listen could be watch. I don't watch it on TV. I listen
to it on YouTube. and HBDC, the um planning board, the historic, the affordable housing, you know, from the beginning of your process, more than one of us listen to all these meetings. So, we listen, we read, we've read
everything that's come through and we so like like I said, we listen, we lead, we read, or we watch. So, we're informed. And I just want to let you know that we don't just walk in here and, you know, see what you have for today. We come prepared as well. And so when it comes
to um reading the correspondence today, I just want to first let the everybody know we've received over aundred pages of comments with multiple pages of attachments submitted to the board um for this week's hearing, this week alone. And we have had those all
distributed and reviewed by board members. They're posted on the town's website. I don't know whose that is, but I announced at the beginning we want no gadgets to make any noise at all. It's distracting and it's um it's actually rude.
Thank you. Um so everything has been reviewed by members, posted on the town website, and sent to the applicant. Um there are four pieces of correspondences that we um that will be referenced for the record but will not be read here as
they're lengthy but again they're they're all posted. We've received let a letter in favor that's also very lengthy from Michael Shell of 91 Moon Penney Lane on July 10th with attachments which have been distributed to members in red.
In addition, the board received correspondence from Rick and Ella Levit on June 16th, June 30th, and July 8th. Again, they've been distributed to the board and we've read them. So, for today, I'm going to read the first seven
letters and then our vice chair is going to read more because I got to pass them out and then after that, um, we will take comments from the audience. So, beginning with our Chattam Fire and Rescue Department, this letter um was
received on July 10th and it says to whom may concern, I am receipt of the most recent site plans uh plan revisions for the project at 1533 Main Street in West Chatam along with a memorandum submitted by the LAR offices of Singer and Singer. The site plan revisions are
acceptable from the fire department's perspective maintaining adequate travel lane with turning radius radi for the department's largest apparatus ladder truck. The only concern that I currently
have is that there is a slight deviation in this rendering compared to the set of plans that were amended back in February, which were altered to ensure a safe turning radius, especially in front of building three. This version of the
plans depicts a body swing of the ladder truck encroaching on parking spaces in that area. It's difficult to ascertain whether there is a change in the dimension that altered the trajectory or if it's simply due to a nuance within
the engineering software. But I would like to see that buffer maintained. The ladder truck is equipped with a bucket overhanging the front of the apparatus which is difficult for the driver to visualize while turning. from the site plans. A larger vehicle or
vehicle that has not pulled all the way into the parking spot completely could obstruct the ladders trucks access. The width of the travel lane is of utmost importance to allow full operational capacity of the ladder
truck. To operate at full capacity, reach height um reach height, swing and angle, the ladders truck outriggers must be fully extended. taking up 17 feet 6 in of a footprint. This typically
requires the use of both lanes in a birectional traffic flow plan. Reducing a single lane would only negatively impact the operational capacity of the ladder truck, but it would also have a ne negative impacts on the turning radi.
For these reasons, I am in favor of maintaining a birectional directional flow of traffic. The n the NFPA is responsible for estab establishing codes and industry standards. Um and then he
goes on to quote uh the rules as to that and that was from Justin Tavano, our chief fire department of the fire department. Next, we have a letter from Hack Housing Assistance by Alyssa Magna, CEO. She tells us on July 11th, she's
writing to provide input for support of the Penrose application. Um, Cape Cod is in the midst of a housing crisis lit that is literally decades in the making. That in Chadam, the need for housing for our workforce is particularly acute. The
availability of this land and the town's willingness to support this project provides a special opportunity to make a meaningful difference. We need more housing of all types in in on Cape Cod and households in Chadam need to earn 30
$300,000 to own a home. Yet the median income is 86 um six. Even renting a home in the lower and outer Cape requires an annual salary that is out of reach for many of our workforce. Your work is essential. We urge the town to proceed
with all due equity and dispatch in reviewing the details of the proposed development, resolving any concerns in the planning and design of the project and issuing the permit so that construction can proceed and families can be stably housed. This parcel is
particularly well suited for multif family housing as it's adjacent to public transit and within walking distance from many small businesses along Route 28. Our organization submitted proposals for the opportunity to develop a project on this land, but
we were not selected. Even still, we recognize the importance of this project and want to see Penrose bring this project into fruition because if they succeed, we all benefit. Next, we have a note from Tracy Cannon.
Um, and this comes to us on July 17th, and she tells us that she's writing today regarding the proposed housing project to be located on Main Street. She's aware that there are several issues currently under discussion, and
she'd like to be uh heard on one today. Excuse me. that is the consideration of a community building for this site. Based on many years of managing the Chattam Housing Authority, which has 70 units ranging from one to three
bedrooms, I feel I can speak to the importance of such a structure. The details of what exactly it would include, I think can be passed out over time, but I feel the space is crucial to the neighborhood. I've toured many affordable housing developments and
almost all of them, especially those with a variety of unit sizes have a community building and a lot of them have been very well utilized. It's my experience uh our community building here at the anchorage has been a crucial space for our tenants. It's been used
for many purposes ranging from staff meetings, board meetings, birthday parties, memorial services, etc. Recently, three of our tenants who happen to be musicians uh shared their love of music and gathered to jam. These are not things done easily for people
who have to travel to the town community center. This building is in the heart of their neighborhood. In many cases, it encourages people who would otherwise stay home alone to come out and be social. It is also symbolically a place of closeness and comfort. Whenever there
is a storm power loss, people gravitate to the community building where they all know they'll find fellow residents or staff who have also have concerns and answers. There are bulletin boards with all manner of information and our
resident services coordinator has a space there as well as the administrative staff. It serves a very important uh as a very important mooring for many people. I respectfully ask that you keep this building in the plan for the neighborhood. Thank you for your
consideration. Next, we have a note from Lucia Loose Quinn. Lucy Quinn, 186 Cross Street, and that comes on July 16th. She tells us that she's writing to express her continued support for Penrose Housing.
Given that the RFP for this project was initiated by and approved by the town, she's simultaneously amazed and somewhat agast at the layers of discussion, mostly civil debate and review um and
the elapsed time required to make this desperately needed housing a reality. During the recent town elections, one of the themes expressed was to keep Chadam Chadam. Whatever decades decade forms the basis of that desire for for time to
stand still, it hasn't and it won't. The lack of available and affordable housing is accelerating the town's transition into a seasonal resort enclave, which puts at risk the history and soul of our village and the many families who have
been here for uh many generations. I also want to call out and express gratitude to the Penrose team who have responded patiently and uh smart people can disagree, but this team has made modifications every step of the way. Next, we have a note from De Halt,
Friends of Trees, July 15, 2025. She tells us, "The Friends of Trees is very concerned about the number of trees proposed to be taken down. We strongly advocate for revisions that would cause the least disturbance to the natur natural wooded area as possible, such as
1533 Main Street conceptual alternative plan. Although trees will be necessarily removed, the alternative plan maximizes the use of that portion of the lot that has already developed and minimizes the intrusion into the wooded area. Further, it creates a
common and intended area intended for recreation that is not surrounded by asphalt. It incorporates many more trees surrounding the play area and is positioned away from traffic um and the vehicle vehicle exhaust that it will generate. At the May 2024 annual town
meeting, Friends of Trees warden proposed a tree bylaw that was overwhelmingly passed by voters. Although the bylaw primarily addresses shade trees, it also requires the town to minimize cutting down uh all trees on
town property. Minimizing the adverse environmental impact is exactly what the bylaw is intended to accomplish. The proposed tree removal here is in addition to other the other two properties which will be developed for housing. These those two properties are
completely wooden and are slated for housing development and will require the removal of a tremendous amount of trees replacing mature ones. It'll be decades before they're replaced. Chattam's losing a massive uh massive number of trees in addition the to these sites me
mentioned the airport's plan to cl to cut down trees in addition necessary clearing of acres of forest for the water treatment and pump stations. Then factor in trees that are removed from private property. The cumulative impact
is significant. Preserving trees everywhere should be a town priority. Wooden open spaces should be preserved and not converted to sites for housing due to their lack of vital environmental ecological and community benefits.
Removing wooded land for development can lead to increased flooding, urban heat and the loss of biodiversity. Friends of Trees request the ZBA give serious consideration to the negative impact um on the environment. Thank you. Next we
have a note from Carol Kenner 68C change lane South Chattam written on July 14th. I received um kindly note my vigorous support for the Penrose application. We are full-time residents of South Chattam. Affordable housing is a top
priority for our family. We have a disabled son who receives services from wonderful direct support staff who find it hard to get housing on Cape Cod. Thank you for your service, Carol Kenner. I don't know if you want to read.
Oh no. Okay. Okay. That concludes my contribution. Paul Paul Simple, take it away. Good afternoon. Uh, we received a letter on July 14th from George Meyers. I am George Meyers, a retired attorney, a
mechanical engineer, and a former Chattam resident, summer resident, and visitor to Chattam for over 60 years, now residing in Venice, Florida. For the past several years, I have worked with Rick Levit and other Chattam residents, boards, and staff
on Cadam's affordable housing needs. Rick and I prepared a proposed alternative plan for 1533 Main Street based on input from various town boards, commissions, and residents. Because that plan was not to scale, we
commissioned a civil engineer to prepare a scale drawing of the plan entitled 1533 Main Street Conceptual Alternative Plan that Rick submitted to the board. In our efforts to address official and community concerns with the Penrose
plan, we used AI artificial intelligence extensively to research affordable housing developments, zoning bylaws, laws, and regulations and compare the conceptual alternative plan with the Penrose plan. AI verified what we
suspected. AI described the conceptual alternative plan as quote far superior unquote to the Penrose plan in every respect, including especially buffering and compatibility with adjacent neighborhoods, a better mix of missing
middle architecture, improved parking and pedestrian safety, simplified one-way all internal traffic circulation, less impervious surface, more community green space, much greater preservation. of trees and vegetation,
safer ingress and egress to and from the site, less noise, light and environmental impact, and a less vehicle dominated design, resulting in a conclusion that the Penrose plan is not appropriate for the site on which it is to be located.
In its July 9 submission to the board, Penrose addressed the previous not to scale plan rather than the conceptual alternative plan despite having a copy of the scale plan. To the extent any changes are needed to the conceptual alternative plan to satisfy the fire
department, building codes or other technical requirements, those are simple and straightforward revisions that can be accomplished by any professional. As for Penrose issues that w with oneway traffic flow, the planning board
suggested assignment of parking spaces and accepted the proposed right and left turns from the exit. Though not shown, a resident quote neighborhood unquote similar to that of Penrose plan can be located across the
community green of the conceptual alternative plan with better sheltering from Route 28 and parking without being completely surrounded by 30-foot tall buildings. All Penrose submissions to date have been woefully inadequate in addressing the key issue of
compatibility with adjacent neighborhoods, especially its impact narrative on page three of its application. Its suggestion that locating the taller building at the front of the property will avoid conflict with the budding neighbors strains credul.
Moreover, the sections A- C cross-sections of the Penrose submission are misleading with respect to a butter proximity and privacy because they do not depict what Jesse's Landing and Barnhill Road direct butters will view
from their respective northern and eastern property lines, their rear windows, backyards, and pools. Because the conceptual alternative plan comprises the same number of dwelling units and a reduced footprint for buildings, parking, hardc hardscape and
infrastructure. It is likely more economical than the Penrose plan and its adoption by Penrose is highly recommended. Respectfully, George Meyers. And then we have a uh a memo submitted
by Mark Janness u which was dated July 4th 2025 to Sarah Clark. Dear Miss Clark regarding the proposed alternative site plan for Penrose development at 1533 Main Street PN Cape Cod Cod Chronicle
June 26th. The one thing that struck me about the drawings in the article is the lack of any meaningful setback between the proposed buildings and Main Street. A setback of at least 20 feet from the sidewalk would seem appropriate for safety. PNS uh Main Street being one of
the busiest traffic arteries in town. Closed PNS and aesthetics PNS in preserving the character of the community closed PNS. I would think future tenants occupying the buildings facing Main Street would also prefer a corridor of open space between their
windows and the roadway. The desire to have a common green placed in the rear of the property should be balanced against an appropriate amount of landscaped space in the front of the property, the side most visible to and remembered by the public. I would be grateful if you would forward this
message to the committee members for their consideration. And then we have an email from Michelle Maloney Kits dated July 14th. I am a year-round resident of Chadam and active in the community. I strongly support the
Penrose application and urge the ZBA to move forward quickly. Given the size of the problem, lack of affordable housing, and the time it takes to construct, we must move forward rapidly to approach the to approve the project. I'm particularly impressed that we can uh
achieve some of our goals for housing in such a terrific location. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend the meeting in person, but did want to be sure to send a letter of support. Then we have a memorandum from uh Tilda
and Bill Bystrom. Uh our names are Tilda Bystrom and Bill Bystrom. We are writing to express our enthusiastic support for the Penrose plan's affordable housing development in Chattam. We believe this project offers a vital opportunity to address the
critical need for affordable housing options within our community. The initiative's proposed potential to positively impact the lives of Chattam residents and contribute to a more inclusive and equitable community is significant and we urge you to give it
your full consideration. Over the last 30 years, it seems that the issues which affect Nantucket also seem to affect Chadam, but with about a 15-year delay before an issues impact to Chadam's reaches reaches the same extent as on the island. Last weekend's article in
the New York Times and this week's article in the Cape Cod Times both detail the impact and lack of affordable housing has had on that island community. We encourage you to approve the Penrose plan to avoid the outcomes currently found on Nantucket and as an
investment in Chadam's future. And then we have a letter from William and Beverly Cullinar 98 Riverview Drive to the members of the zoning board of appeals. I am a strong supporter of the Penrose application for
comprehensive permit number 25-34 at 1533 Main Street. The town of Chadam and its residents are in need of affordable dash attainable housing for a number of reasons. I am 93 and my wife is 91. And
at some time in the not too distant future, we may need assistance in many ways. We have a number of friends who are our age and are very worried about their future and the need to employ local health so that they can remain in their homes. The coffee shops and stores
that we use are currently having trouble lining up help. I am a former teacher and among other municipal employees, we would have a difficult time working and living in Chattam. In my experience, municipal employees and the town gain a
great deal if these employees live locally. Please give a positive vote to this application. It is important for many facets of Chattam. I would attend the meeting but have a prior commitment. And then we have an email from uh Thomas
Clark dated July 14th. Honorable members of the zoning board of appeals, I am writing to express my strong support for the proposal to build low and moderate income housing in the town of Chattam. As a member of this community, I believe that expanded expanding affordable housing options is
essential for fostering a diverse, vibrant, and sustainable town for all who live and work here. Access to affordable housing is a cornerstone of a healthy community. It enables families, young professionals, and older residents to remain in Chattam, contributing to
our local economy and enriching the fabric of our neighborhoods. By supporting this proposal, the town of Chattam demonstrates a commitment to inclusivity and to meeting the needs of residents from all walks of life. The high cost of housing in our region has put tremendous pressure on many
individuals and families, forcing some to seek opportunities elsewhere or to live in unstable and unsatisfactory conditions. By approving this proposal, the zoning board of appeals will help address the critical shortage of affordable houses homes and ensure that
Chattam remains a welcoming place for teachers, first responders, essential workers, and others who are vital to our community success. Furthermore, the addition of low and moderate income housing will strengthen Cadam's economy by enabling local businesses to attract
and retain employees who might otherwise be unable to live nearby. It will also promote a sense of belonging and connection, reinforcing the values that make our town such a special place to call home. I urge the zoning board of appeals to approve this proposal and to
seize this important opportunity to invest in the future of Chattam. Thank you for your time and thoughtful consideration of the project. Then we have a letter dated July 14th, 2025 from Steven Daniel.
Honorable members of the zoning board of appeals, I write to endorse and wholly support the Penrose application for a comprehensive permit relating to the Buckley property at 0 and533 Main Street. While I make this endorsement strictly as an individual, I do so
having the benefit of studying and working to support the creation of attainable and affordable housing in Chadam during my tenure on the finance committee. In February of 2020, a working group of finance committee I led submitted for review and approval by the
full committee a detailed analysis of Chadam's housing situation and prescriptions for its improvement. The 19page report attached here to hereto was unanimously endorsed by the finance committee for submission to the select board for its consideration and action.
As the report noted, in an effort to potentially increase traction on addressing the challenges of attainable community housing, the Chattam Finance Committee established the community housing working group in June of 2019. The charge to the working group was to
one survey Cadam's current efforts around community housing including the organizational structures behind those efforts. Two survey the efforts of other Cape Towns and area organizations involved in addressing the attainable
housing issue in an effort to quote learn from good unquote and three present its findings and recommendations to the board of selectment for its consideration. To that end, the working group has met or spoken with 13 entities. Please see appendix A over the
past seven months to learn what we could. While we are keenly aware that no one is eager to receive unsolicited advice, the working group believes strongly that successfully addressing the issue of attainable community housing in Chadam will require both
focus and prioritiz prior prioritization. Uh if we truly are committed as a committee to addressing this issue, any success to any course to success will be marked we believe by one effective and thoughtful community engagement, two
political will, three funding and four accountability. The absence of any of these elements will we believe lessen the probability of success of any effort undertaken. Emphasised added by him. The project to date has both secured funding
and engaged in thoughtful community engagement based on the prescription of the uh finance committee is now time for summoning both the accountability and the political will to in order to secure the success of this desperately needed project. Additionally, it was in my
capacity as chairman of the finance committee that the town manager requested me to join a working group to assist with the negotiation of the land development agreement, the LDA, with Penrose. Over the course of nearly three months, the working group thoughtfully
and assiduously represented the interests of the town of Chadam in the negotiation of the contract with Penrose. Working alongside experienced town council, the working group was able to materially improve the terms and conditions of the transaction agreement documents to the benefit of
Chadam. I would also make note of the endorsement of this important project by those entities which submitted responses to Cadam's request for proposal and which were not awarded the project. I believe that the endorsements post Penrose award by the three competitors
for this project is reflective of the critical need for additional attainable and affordable housing in Chattam. I am encouraged by the positive views publicly expressed by members of the planning board in their evaluation of this important project and wish to
reiterate my strong support of Penrose's application for a comprehensive permit. Best regards, Stephen N. Daniel, that I think concludes our correspondence. That concludes our correspondence. Now, let's see. We won't take a break now,
but we're going to probably take a break at 4. Um I I see you, Mr. Riley. And um when I'm ready to acknowledge people, I will consider that you've raised your hand first. So, now we're just going to go through the audience. Can you raise
your hand if you want to speak at all, just so I get an idea? Okay. So, as you know, it's three minutes a person. We ask that you don't repeat maybe what you've said last time or what's, you know, just try to be, you know, respectful to the fact that a lot
of people want to talk. Um, just keep that in mind. Um, so three minutes a person and um going to start with Mr. Riley just to be fair because he did raise his hand first. He was heads up because he's been here before. He knows the drill.
Can you sit down? Sit down, Penrose. We also have Mr. Buckley online. Yeah. And we have Mr. Buckley online. Just uh would you consider sitting down Penrose? Uh sort of moving away from the speaker. That would be helpful. Especially when the speaker is on in your favor.
Good afternoon, uh Bill Riley. One more. One more thing. What Mark? Are we able to put the clock on the big screen so the um public can see it as well? So, I'm very strict about the three minutes. So, Mr. Riley, go right ahead.
I agree. But can we have the picture back up of the the Penrose plan up there? Absolutely. All right. Okay. We're going to We started the clock, so Thank you. And first, I want to repeat uh what I know the Levits have said to
you before, and that is they're they support the idea of affordable and attainable housing at this location. and and the number of units the um
I wanted the one that shows the the adjoining properties also please uh the um in my experience uh a project that goes through a hearing process like this listening to concerns
of legitimate concerns of neighbors and other interested persons always comes out as a better project. Um the uh can we show the adjoining properties too? Also the um
do you know which plan page it was Bill? This is at this page 21. It's page 21 of the 19 page of the July 9th submission by Yeah. Okay. be nice if it was larger,
but okay, that's perfect. All right. So, the um the concerns that my clients have really have to do with the size, the height of the of the buildings. When you say your clients, Mr. Riley, are we talking about the Levits or are we talking about talking about the Levits? We're talking
about the owners on Uncle Jesse's and Eastwood Companies is also on a butter with a vacant lot at that location. And so they're concerned about the height of the buildings being 35 feet
and basically 15 feet or less uh from their property lines. And so one of the things that uh the guidelines for affordable housing say is that these projects should fit in the context of
the neighborhood. And so uh I know that Mr. Singer and his team have suggested that they do fit in the context of the neighborhood. But I want to point out that uh every building that surrounds
this property is either one story or one and a half story. And the Penrose project, the buildings were essentially 35 feet tall. They have reduced them to 32 33 feet, you know,
but they still are much taller than the adjoining properties. And the so the goal uh that we have is to encourage them to reduce the height of the buildings so they more closely
reflect our zoning bylaw. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Riley. Um, okay. Who's next? I'm going to go on this side and I see David Oppenheim. Please go ahead. Thank you. Um, David OP and I'm and I'm speaking as a former member of the affordable housing trust. Uh, first of
all, I want to I thank uh Penrose for their respectful and well-considered responses to the concerns expressed by this board and to all of the uh real issues that were brought up by the neighbors and people that are concerned with this. They've addressed height. I
think they've done a great job addressing height. There are a few places where it's where they're asking for somewhat of a waiver, but it's not the entire roof line. It's more of the element of the of the loft portion to get so they get the three-bedroom units. parking. They've they've re changed the
parking to meet uh uh uh to to address the concerns. There's more open space. They've reduced the size of the building and everything else. They've addressed landscape and they've done a wonderful job with landscaping. Moved the dumpsters, which were legitimate concerns of things like that. Um one
question that was raised at a previous meeting by one of the members of this board was valuations of abuing properties. While and while I don't think that really is relevant, I would say that um you know, some of the people that bought on Jesse's Landing, it was prior to this being proposed, uh I
believe a week or two ago, a house sold on Jesse's Landing that abuts this property in the southeast corner for $3.2 million. And I believe that they know what's going on. So, I would suggest that that addresses that that comment. Um we now have a plan that's
been proposed by some of the neighbors. I'm going to call it the Levid plan for because it's been referred to that way. That involved AI uh as the time I spent two years on the affordable housing trust. We had to use our somewhat flawed own intellect uh not artificial
intelligence. We had to use our own experience of over 200 years of us living here combined. Several people for well over 50 years. uh knowing what people need in this town, knowing what they do, how they work, what they
appreciate, which is landscaping, trees, and things like that. I'm not sure we can compete with AI. They must It's much smarter than we are, but I think we know the town better, and we recommended this plan, and I think it should be approved. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I'm going to go at that
hand. I That was the next one I saw. Yes, go right ahead. And there is a microphone in the middle if that's faster. Hi, I'm Matt Swinsson, 1470 Main Street, uh, which is Iduck Cottages, and probably as I look around, I'm the longest resident of that area. I've
lived there for 25 years. And, uh, there's two things I wanted to bring up is, uh, one, over and over people have said that there's no affordable housing and uh, in this area, but really organically, the area that you're talking about has the most affordable housing that I know of. I mean, between
the apartments over the old FCC, my own place ID cottages, the Gould compound, the two apartment complexes on Welden Way, uh the master mariner, the uh the apartments over at Dunkin Donuts, the apartments across from Joe Buckley's,
not Joe Buckley, um Benny Nick's old shop. Um there is that I mean we have probably one of the most uh naturally organic, you know, lowinccome in Cape Cod, I don't think. or in Chadam at least. I know more than Moon Penney and I know more than Stage Island. Um and
over and over people keep saying this community needs it, but I think there already is a very strong um affordable community there. And I think when we combined those residents with the existing businesses, also our family's motel, that's another 32. Uh if you go
down the way the other rentals, I mean the traffic flow, right, everyone says it's fine. I mean, there's already a ton of people in a very, very dense area, and there already is a a large coalition of low-income and affordable people living here. And the idea that people keep getting up and saying, "Oh, there's
no affordable housing in West Chadam." I mean, they're my tenants. They're my friends. The people I grew up with, West Shadam is that that area is a cluster of affordable housing, and it and it doesn't need this giant addition. Uh, that's just going to add more density, more traffic. It's just problematic
overall. Thank you for your comments. We know we're going to go on this side of the room and then we're going to go online. Michael Shell, please go ahead. Mike Shell Chadam. Um I thought we were going to have four minutes today, so I'm going to submit my remarks. Uh I I just want to read the first and last
paragraphs of what I I prepared for today. This is a friendly 40B. We sponsored it. It came at the town's invitation and it started over 20 years ago and has been repeated uh many times. My concluding paragraph is uh at
Chadam's invitation, Penrose is presenting Chadam with a plan for 32 units of affordable housing and 16 units of attainable housing. It's an excellent plan. Penrose is an ideal partner for Chadam. Union Studio designed the
project. Union Studio is the Cape Cod Commission's partner for its missing middle planning initiative. I'm talking about this initiative. We have an all-star team and a magnificent opportunity to conclude our
20 plus year effort successfully. Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Indeed, not the excellent be the enemy of the good. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Now we're going to go online to SB Stephen Buckley. I presume
you presume correctly. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, yes, I uh I have a question. I'm hoping that uh the three minute won't be a three-minute answer and I'll lose my time for making a comment, but
um in a couple of uh previous uh forums uh the suggestion was made that the uh buildings uh that are being built there have siding that's not all the same color. So, it won't look like a housing development. It'll look more like a
neighborhood. And so, um, but I haven't seen anything in the documents that are available today to know whether or not that's going to be whether Penrose has agreed to do that or um, you know. So, anyway, that's of a question if they're
if if I missed it someplace or if they So, you can continue on with your comment and we'll we'll ask Penrose that later, not to take up your time. So, what else did you want to tell us? Uh, yes. Uh
uh having lived on the property, the forming former Buckley property uh for several years, um I have walked around there and yes, it it would be nice, I believe, especially with 48 units going there and hopefully some young children
that uh people will be walking all around and uh people will not be if somebody's walking from Chadam, downtown Chadam, they will be on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street and they
knowing human nature will not walk all the way down to the Dunkin Donuts to cross over and then come all the way back in order to go to their where they live. So, I don't know what the criteria is, but the thing is people and small children will see home and they will
cross where it makes the most sense. and hopefully we won't have somebody we won't decide to put in a crosswalk um after some young child has been hit. The other thing is there is an amenity right across the street. Uh there was a map there showing amenities, but there's a
great place for young kids to play in the woods, which we used to do when I grew up in Chadam. Go out and play in the woods because there's town own land right across there. And so I see kids when they're tired of uh playing on in on on the common area there going off to
explore in the woods across the street. So uh that's my concern is that there'll be plenty of reasons to cross the street right there. And um so I would hope that uh whoever decides that I'm just want to go on the record as saying there should
be a crosswalk there somewhere that accommodates all this all these additional pedestrians that we see. Thank you very much. Thank you. And if it makes you feel any better, that's top on my list to talk about. And um we have some hope on that based on our memorandum. What will you say? Uh Rob Shelon.
Robin. Rob Shen, please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Uh 36 Jesse's Landing. Um I have a quick comment about fencing. Um, I noticed in the the latest Penrose memo they were really opposed to
having any kind of perimeter fencing and you know they said said that it would be it send the wrong message that it would be exclusionary or um non-inclusive and I just don't I didn't think that was really uh you know very fair. I mean a lot of the properties have fencing
between you know fencing them off and we're still very close and and tight with the neighbors. You know, I think I don't think that fencing is really unusual. And if you think about it, if you look at the map, people that are in the Penrose community, if they want to go to the Harding Beach, say, they're
going to have to walk, right? They're going to, in order not to go on private property, they're going to have to walk down Main Street to the Dunkin Donuts and then go down Harding Beach Road. Um, it's gonna be very tempting for the kids especially and maybe some adults to cut through the private property in Jesse's
Landing to get uh a significant head start on the walk to the beach. And so, you know, I think the fencing is not an unreasonable request from the Jesse's Landing Comm uh community. That's my that's the extent of my comments. Thank you very much. Yes, sir.
I'm going to speak in two different uh uh two different hats on. I'm speaking now. Long is not two different languages because What's that? Uh uh my name is Henry Marcelli, 32 Jesse's Landing, and I'm speaking on behalf of the Jesse's Landing Homeowners Association. Most of them are here. Uh
we the undersign support the construction of muchneeded affordable housing on the Buckley property in 1533 Main Street. We also recognize that there are many approaches and options that are available to the developer with respect to building type, size, configuration, location on the site,
building materials, colors, landscaping, green space, dumpsters, parking, etc. Penrose has proposed their approach for developing affordable housing on the site. The proposed plan utilizes several large, tall apartment buildings close to existing homes. Several slight
modifications to the proposal have been made as a result of input from the ZBA. Various boards, commissions, and the public. Despite these modifications, several large buildings remain in their originally proposed locations to the detriment of the existing neighbors and abutters. We have reviewed the proposed
alter alternates submitted by Rick Levit. While we recognize we are not design professionals, the plan was developed by a civil engineering professional. The alternate plan appears to be a viable approach that maintains the originally proposed number of units at the appropriate mix of apartment
types, reduces the parking to a number used on other comparable projects, and most importantly locates the common green to the rear of the property, ameliating many of the concerns expressed by the neighbors. We urge the ZBA and Penrose to consider the
alternate plan as a viable and preferable approach to satisfying the need for affordable housing in Chadam. It's signed by all of the members. There are 10 lots. Everybody is there representing including Eastward who owns the 10th lot that's not developed. I'm
now speaking as Henry Marceli uh citizen. I have read all the correspondence. Most of the uh most of it centers around the need for affordable housing. We agree that we need affordable housing. We agree that it's a good site for it. So that let's put that to bed that that uh there's
there's opposition. And there's no opposition from our group about affordable housing on the Buckley property. The question is how do we fit it in and make it compatible with the 13 neighbors single family homes who are here today and will have to live with whatever you decide. You're the ZBA.
You're the final arbiter here. Please remember that there were three firms that responded to the RFP. Each of their proposals looked very different. They weren't the same. We sat in all the meetings. We saw it. So, there are several approaches to developing the Buckley property. To date, I have not
seen any effort or attempt to modify the Penrose plan to consider relocating the common green to the rear of the parcel, reducing the impact to the neighbors. I believe there is a solution in front of us that needs further exploration, discussion, and evaluation. You have the authority and responsibility to make it
happen. Thank you for your service to our community, and we would appreciate your consideration. Thank you. Man in the back. Hi, Frank Msina South Chadam. Um, chairman of the historical commission. I just quickly want to reiterate the comments that you were given from the
historical commission. pretty much unanimous in terms of uh you know great job but really they could do a lot better relative to attempting to to meet the character and the uh and the sense of place as we use like to use the term in Chadam you know it's it's a cookie
cutter uh uh development and and I I you know they did a they did a nice job you know in terms of rebutting everything here and I wish they would have spent as much time and did a little engineering to look at the alternate plan it could work. You know, there are things that
could be done and and I think as the previous speaker said, I hope you send them back to the drawing board. The plan was approved by the former housing committee. Okay? Uh there's a new one now. Maybe things will change. The point of the the is that yes, everybody wants
affordable housing. Everybody thinks there's a need. we need to do something, but you could do it a hell of a lot better and spend a little more time and maybe a little more money to try and look at the alternate plan to see if you could meet the needs of the neighbors, meet the needs of the HBDC and the historical commission and provide
something we could all be proud of, not another cookie cutter uh housing development. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Um Brian Bergstrom, just this isn't totally You know, my excuse me, my experience
with affordable housing in Chattam goes back to oh, maybe 20 years when we did the Lake Street project, which is probably one of the most successful affordable housing projects in town or anywhere in the Cape, very similar to this one. Um, I think you have to make some decisions or some decisions already
been made. We know we need affordable housing in Chattam. Yes, there are places where you can try to get in, you know, if you're lucky, if you know someone. But the vast majority of people who come here to work, you know, who have to be policemen or firemen or teachers or employees of the town have a
very difficult time finding a place to live. And that has financial aspects because we have to pay more. We have to pay people more to live here because it's so expensive, you know. Um, so I'm I'm to to to let you know I'm I'm in
complete support of this project. I think it's gone through all the vetting and all the meetings and all the discussions that uh are necessary when you look at a project of this size and expense and you know there's been some suggestions that the Penrose has not
done this and not done that. Well, you know, I'm not an architect. Sometimes you just have to rely on those who know what they're doing, who spend their careers and their reputations on presenting something. There's no they have no motivation to be in any way
deceptive or or or to not pro provide the best recommendations that they possibly can. Now, as far as the alternative plan goes, I mean, I'm not going to ask you, you know, what your job is, but this is the application that's in front of you. Okay? you're it
seems to me the ZPA is deciding yes or no on this whether this whether there's an alternative to that that's a political decision it's made by the town your decision is is this acceptable is it a good project is it going to meet
the needs of the community and is it fulfill the requirements that we have for affordable housing yes it's on the street affordable housing is is concentrated in what we used to call neighborhood centers which tend to be on Main Street. We don't want them pushed
into the woods. We want them to be in already developed areas. And even though this particular parcel is not heavily developed, it is in a concentrated neighborhood of West Chadam. And there are there are amenities there that people can access.
The town needs, you know, we're never going to accommodate everybody, but we like to keep community character. And the community character is not just tied up in the environment. is tied up in the the population. Are we going to have families with kids? You know, are we
going to have retirees, second homeowners? Are we going to become a a a town that has just a few people who are are second homeowners or retired or so on? And it's not going to be the kind of real place that we like to think of when we have a small town
like Chadam. So, I don't want to go on, but I'm in support of this project. I urge you to look at this project and this is the application that's in front of you. Do you think it's a good application? Does it meet the requirements that you're asking for?
Thank you. Thank you, Rick Levit. You are next. I'm Rick Levit, 31 Barnhill Road. lemon of butter in in response to the previous uh statement. This project has been adapt
been has had many adaptions adaptations to it from the original plan. So, uh coming up with an alternative plan at this point I don't believe is uh uh unusual.
We we're all disappointed that in in the Penrose response, it's been dismissive of thoughtful suggestions by Chattam officials, ignoring the scaled alternative plan based on those official suggestions that that respects neighboring single family
homes. Penrose's plan fails to satisfy Cadam's RFP specifying respect for adjacent single family neighborhoods. That's all we're asking. Building height matters, but proximity
matters more. Large multifamily apartment buildings 17 ft from single family homes aren't the only solution to Chattam's housing needs. Penrose's swift landing multif family
development and wearham has 50 foot setbacks from adjacent single family homes. Housing assistance corporations, Melpet Farms, multifamily development, and Dennis is set back from adjacent single family
homes more than 50 ft. You're not limited to a binary decision, approve or disapprove this plan. Under 40B, you can require greater setbacks. When you make a finding that the Penrose
plan has excessive massing and scale that does not respect our adjacent single family homes or neighborhoods. A reasonable guide for such finding is such a finding is to ask yourself,
would I approve large multifamily apartments 17 ft from my home that rob me of my privacy and deprive me of quiet enjoyment of our home. In this case, however, it's not necessary for you to
impose greater setbacks that would lower the unit count. Maintaining existing neighborhood integrity and Penrose's desired 48 units can be achieved by simply relocating the common green to
the southern boundary as shown in the alternative plan. Research of housing appeals committee decisions up in Boston shows that hack would favor this approach as being fair to all parties.
Finally, I'll repeat what I said before. Our neighborhood welcomes affordable housing that respects the neighborhood and is fair to all parties. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Who wants to go next? I see anybody over here? No. Um, okay,
ma'am. Go. Good afternoon. Um, my name is Priscilla Smith. Um, my grandson would probably say that I'm here to represent the interests of the 25 to 30 year old group.
Um, in 2002, I moved to Chadam full-time with my daughter and my four-year-old grandson. My grandson has had been privileged live in this town all
these years to go through the public school system, which is just wonderful. which got him to a point where when looking for a college, he got into almost any college he wanted to on almost full scholarships.
He has made lifelong friends in this town. He loves this town. He went on to graduate school and now lives in California. But he has a dream. He would love to
come back to this town and settle. He is now 28 years old. And when he visits often because he loves it so much. When he looks around and he sees all the gray-haired people and we talk about what he might do when he comes back and he's a very talented
young man. He could start a business on lots of things. Um I can tell that it's not quite what it might what he might like. So what he might like is to see more young families here.
and um friends and people in his age group. I think this is a wonderful plan and hopefully it will be done by the time um that he gets his act not he has actors
together but figures out maybe what new business he might like to start in this area. I have one more story about my wonderful grandson when he was in fourth grade. And you know how at the end of the year they have those days when they're outside and
they run their little, you know, ball exercises and things. He was on a team running and they were winning and they turned around and they came back and they were going to win and Ryan looked around and saw one of the people on his team, a young girl who obviously didn't
wasn't able to run. He went back and got her and took her hand and brought her forward. This is the kind of young person we want living in this town. Thank you. And I was tempted to let you go longer because I'm a runner, but you don't
you didn't need it. So, we're going to go to the next person who raises their hand that I see. Okay. The woman I right there. Yes. I apologize if I ever don't describe someone right. My contacts only get me so far.
I forgot my glasses. Anyway, good afternoon. My name is Donna Gabriel. I live in Barnhill Road and I am an a butter to this project. My husband, Jean, and I have owned our home for 25 years. We appreciate how Chadam has kept our
small town character with the sensitivity to the building size and height. The proposed plan by the national developer Pinrose Penrose, excuse me, will change our lives in the lives of our children
forever. The proposed plan does not respect our privacy. The mass massing of two and a half stories, 30, 35 ft, whatever they have it at now, um destroys our privacy and the quiet enjoyment of our home. The alternative
plan seems to be reasonable. It respects the surrounding residents. Um, the alternative plan also respects the developers claim that 48 rental apartments are needed and on this small
historic Western Cadam site will provide enough rental income for the developer to maintain and make a profit. We citizens and taxpayers of res of residents of Cadam expect the national
developer and local office to respect our claim and our single family neighborhoods that will be protected and preserved. Thank you very much. Thank you. And please go ahead. Ella Ella Levit, correct?
And I like this on deck theory. So the next person that was Yeah. I I hope you do that. So when the person is up there, you can feel free. Yes. Great. Please go ahead. All right. Good afternoon. My name is
Ella Levit. I'm one of the many abutters to this project and I feel I have to weigh in uh as everyone else has that we absolutely I don't think there's anyone in this room who doesn't support affordable housing. It's the the question and the point is
how is it going to be done and how is it going to affect the neighbors. Uh I want to talk today about AI. Modern AI research is an invaluable tool for community planning. It's basically the collection of factual information.
When asked to compare the Penrose plan with the alternative plan, AI responded, "The alternative plan creates a gracious setback, preserving neighbors privacy and quiet. The Penrose plan hard edges the neighbors, reducing compatibility.
The alternative plan minimizes hardscaping, making it greener and more environmentally sensitive. The alternative plan is more human-caled, promoting walkability, community interaction, and visual harmony. When asked about rear and side setbacks for
apartment buildings, adjacent single family residential neighborhoods, AI responded, "For affordable housing under Chapter 40B, zoning boards often impose 40 to 50 foot buffer zones with dense landscaping between apartment buildings
and abuing single family homes. In towns like Chadam with strong interest in neighborhood character preservation, ZBAS may require 40 to 50 foot setbacks or more. This range is regarded as reasonable and defensible in 40b
negotiations. When asked if parking in an affordable housing development can be limited, AI responded, "Developers often provide one space per unit in affordable housing. Chapter 40B developers may request zoning waiverss for reduction in
parking requirements. When asked if a community center was needed, AI responded, "If you already if you are, excuse me, if you are already including a community green, then a small multi-purpose room is
likely sufficient." AI summed up the planning professions standards for affordable housing development this way. The alternative plan reflects community values while still providing affordable housing, striking a much healthier balance
between development and neighborhood p preservation. The goal of affordable housing should not come at the cost of undermining existing communities. The alternative plan shows that with thoughtful design, it is possible to meet housing needs while still
respecting a butters and the integrity of the surrounding area. We hope you agree. Thank you. Thank you. After these two um people, we're going to take a short break. So, welcome. Hello everyone. Thank you. Carolyn
Mlullen, South Chadam. Um I've been mulling over some of the uh points of disagreements regarding the Penrose Main Street development. As an affordable housing advocate, I'm keenly aware of the social social contract that necessitates the fostering a mutual respect between all members in the community. I was very concerned about
the neighbors opinions being heard and considered. However, following the June 5th ZBA meeting, I was pleased to see that the developer did in fact listen to the concerns. I do feel that they've made enough modifications to the plan such as reducing the overall height and footprint as well as addressing lighting issues. I have driven down Jesse's
Landing many times and consider the impact that they will experience and I feel although they will be aware and able to see parts of the development, is it a reasonable amount of exposure? I would implore that whatever decision the ZBA makes that they are consistent with other allowances that have made to other developers as respect should be mutual
not only extended to the abutters but also to include respect of the rights of the pending project as well as the future residents who have homes there. We accept that we will be held to Chattam high standards for development looking into how the town has considered in process and allowed other types of sizable housing developments such as sub
subdivisions should be reviewed for comparison. The idea that these buildings need to be unseen by all of Butters is unreasonable and not a standard that any other developers held to. Specifically, Jesse's Landing and also Hunter Rise. These these parcels
were thickly forested and they chose to clearcut every single tree and now have an extremely narrow buffer zone on their side. Hunter Rise in particular towers over their southern neighbor with a full three stories of exposure with not a single buffer zone between them. These
were choices that were made and allowed by this town. Obviously, the current Penrose proposal, by comparison, is extending a great deal of respect and consideration to their future neighbors. I'll also point out that um in 2021, I shared with the community an interesting
fact that Chadam had the the worst housing record in the entire Cape. We had built seven homes, seven individual homes in the last 10 years while all our neighbors had built considerably more. In that time since we've built two more, so we're at nine and we have one
pending. We haven't hit double digits yet. All of our neighbors are well over 100 and some up to 200. Chadam is the worst was the worst and is still the worst on housing development. It is embarrassing. Without housing, this development for Penrose, we will have no
hope of making any significant headway. And also to speak a little bit to the quality of life for these residents. I just want to think say that the the the cutting back of the community building I I don't agree with it all. I think there's a quality of life that these homeowners are entitled to. We're
building huge our butters have three 4,000 square foot homes. They're supposedly two or three maybe four bedroomedroom homes. You have 48 homeowners in this parcel and the fact that they could have a community building with um an exercise room is not an unreasonable request. We have to
think about their quality of life. Thank you very much. Thank you. I just want to point out they're not homeowners. They're not homeowners. Just out of fairness. Okay. I'm sorry. Renters tenants. Yes. Okay. Next, Katherine Sharer, uh Janette Drive in
Chattam. Um, I am here to say I support affordable housing and I support this development. We need rental housing in Chadam. We have very little year-round rental housing. I think Penrose has done an
admirable job of creating a development that gives us affordable and attainable rental units in the space available while taking into consideration as best they can the concerns of the neighbors.
Um, at first I was intrigued by the alternative proposal, but when I looked at it more carefully today, I realized that as Penrose has said, what they've proposing to do is create a series of apartments around a parking lot. I don't know about you, but
I'd hate it. And the people who need this housing need comfortable places. And those of us who walk by it would not like to walk by a housing development around a parking lot. A housing development around a green space with a road that the fire
engines can get around and some buffer for the abuing properties I think is a reasonable compromise and we should approve it. Thank you. Thank you, Miss. So now we're going to take a short break and we will resume with any other comments. And um thank
you Okay, we are back. Didn't work. No. We are back. So, this is part two of the zoning board of appeals meeting on um July 17th,
2025. And uh before we continue with comments from the audience, I just want to say that um this would be the last meeting that we're going to have very generalized comments. We're going to probably continue this at the end of the day today to August 21st at which time
we'll have our peer review regarding in civil engineering and traffic and we're going to focus our um topic that day on civil engineering and traffic with Penrose and all your comments will
basically need to be focused on that topic and there'll be probably three minutes. It depends. We we decide how many minutes to give depending how many people are here. So it's never going to be more than five minutes or more than actually more than four minutes, but it
could be two or three if it was, you know, flooded with people. So we decided on the spot and I knew today would probably be three. So anyway, um again, today's the last day for general opinions and um because we are limited
in time to get this done. So, um, that is the reason. So, next, please go ahead, sir. Just make sure you state your name and you have three minutes just like everybody else. My name is Peter Swenson. I'm I live at
1370 Main Street and I own the property to the east of this project called the Chattam Motel. Uh the motel is along the entire eastern border of the project and our our concerned the business is the size of the scope of the buildings that
are being put up uh in relation to the height of the motel. It will be a a wall of u buildings taking away from the um fact that we're just a one-story motel been there for a long time and uh this
would be un what I would call uncharacteristic of the use of the property. So I'm I'm here objecting to the asking you not to forget the height requirement and consider that and also the density of the project.
Um, appreciate your time. Thank you. Katherine Halpin is next. Thank you. My name is Katherine Halpern. Um, my family has been resident of Chattam for 45 years. I'm a member of the planning board, formerly chair and
vice chair of the planning board. However, right now I wish to speak as private citizen of Cadam uh and long-term resident of Cadam Kathern Halpern. Um I don't really have any prepared points. I've been listening to everybody's feedback today and listening
to your presentation. Um I just want to say that there's a lot of complex issues. I think the first thing we need to do is separate the issue of this specific design versus the issue of the need for affordable and attainable and
moderately priced housing in Chadam. I agree with a previous speaker that there is no doubt that we need more affordable, attainable and moderately priced housing in Chattam especially for yearround residents. We need that. No
doubt. The question I think that comes to bear is is this design the best design to meet our needs. um we want to put our money in the best design and I just have to tell you my professional
experience and background um that led me to be part of the planning uh board is I am a site plan and master plan designer and I have heard what everyone said and I just want to I just have to say this
as a designer I can guarantee that a design could be produced that does not require any compromise. on anybody's part. I believe that we can design this so that all the requirements of Penrose
are met. All the requirements of the 40B RFP are met and all the concerns of the abutters and of the town community at large are also addressed adequately. I think it just needs a little time and
attention. Um, one thing that we always pay a lot of attention to um, in our processes are the concerns of a butters. We want this project not to create be creating its own individual little community, but we want it to be part of
the larger community of the town of Chadam. And to do that, I think we do need to pay attention to the neighbors needs as well as the residents needs. So, and I think that can be done. That's all I want to say. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Next.
Welcome. Hi, Jackie Marceli. Uh 32 Jesse's Landing. Um I know last time we met, we did my husband and I submitted some pictures of the development in East Ham. And all I
wanted to say today was there were two words that stuck out when I went to see the project. and that was stark and screamed of affordable housing. And I don't believe that that's what we want here in Chadam. And I just spoke to the
gentleman from Pembrose and he did indicate that that is a different development. Although I will say to me the buildings look the same. The green space was but one piece of equipment and
some sprigs as I called them. and there was not one person there utilizing the space. So I would hope that whatever we choose here in Chadam, it is inviting and it does not look like affordable housing. It's not fair to the people
that'll be living there and you certainly want it inviting for them to use the space that is there. That's that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Next, sir, please go ahead. All right, Brian Phillips, uh, airport
commissioner. So, speaking as an airport commissioner, uh, the military frequently uses our airport for routine training exercises. The military uses our airport because it is one of the only, uh, if not the only airports that is dark enough to use its
night vision equipment. As an airport commissioner, I have serious objections to the light pollution created by the high density in the lamps uh that will be on overnight. Seems like a pretty serious issue to me. Um and I'd also look into other stuff
that the FAA has recommendations for. As a citizen, uh the structures are too big, way too dense, uh giving up way too many water rights, uh to a for-profit corporation that will be needed for future projects in Chadam. Uh the lights will have a detrimental effect on our
sarcadium rhythm. Uh way too much asphalt which detrimentally affects uh drainage to our aquifers. And a question to you guys is how is $3,000 a month for a one-bedroom apartment affordable? This has the potential to reset the rental
market in Chadam and make things less affordable. Uh this AMI structure uh allows Penrose to take 30% of tenants income regardless of how much they make, making essentially a license to steal. AMI does not allow for upward social mobility. Uh if you make too much money,
get kicked out. This type of project in a small town like Chadam promotes class separation, which there are only rich and poor, no middle class. This is in part due to the lack of affordable houses to buy. We had an offer on the table from Hack
to have home ownership units for $150,000. We could have put people in houses for $150,000. Um, this would achieve Cadam's goal of replenishing our middle class and uh freed up many rental units being used.
Um, it is very curious and disappointing to me why board members would go with a plan that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Penrose at the expense of Chattam taxpayers, our social structure, our infrastructure, and the potential for future projects.
I request an alternative project um uh be presented to the ZBA uh and will be referred to the select board for approval. In this project, I request tiny homes and or cottages that are energy efficient and have low impact on
the environment. I request as much green space and trees as possible that do not require fertilizer or irrigation. I request that these uh this project includes home ownership and rentto own programs. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Next.
Hi, I'm Debbie Finity. I live at 28 Jesse's Landing. Um, I just want to say that instead of finding fault with the alternate plan, we'd really appreciate Penrose understanding why we support an alternate plan. Um, no one's saying that they don't agree with affordable and attainable housing. But please, um,
don't say you care about our Butters when you obviously won't hear and listen to our concerns about density and crowding up against neighbors. Um, all the praise that we hear is coming from people who don't have to live right up next to this project. I understand that
time and money have been invested, but feel strongly it would be in everyone's best interest to revisit the abuter's concerns. I would implore the zoning board to ask Penrose to listen to the abutters and figure out how to better meet these to meld these large structures into our neighborhood. I also want to say that I support fencing as
Rob Shan previously mentioned. So, thanks for your time. Thank you, ma'am. Next. Uh, good afternoon ZBA. Um, Jeff Dykins, member of the select board. I'm here to speak speak in favor of this project. I want to remind folks here that are in attendance and online that the select
board has voted favorably for this project. It's endorsed it. It's endorsed it all along. It's an excellent project. We have an extremely professional firm that is willing to develop this property so that we can provide 48 units of affordable housing here in the town of Chadam. You are in a tough spot because
you you have to balance the needs of the overwhelming needs or overarching I believe needs of the need for affordable housing in town versus the needs of of uh the abutters and it's boiling down to that conflict if you will and you're a tough spot. But I would like to argue here today that the needs for affordable
housing given the data that we heard from Orleans where they had 600 applicants for 62 spots. They had 600 applicants. The need is overwhelming and I believe it's the ZBA's job unfortunately or fortunately now to
decide whether or not that is the overarching need for our town. We need kids in the schools. We have no kids in the schools. our our attendance has gone from our our 28% to 23% of the kids in the Monterey regional school system are from Chattam. We need young families. We
need kids. This is one way we can establish or have have opportunity or offer opportunities for young families to have kids in this town. West Chadam is a perfect spot. It It's your transportation. It's a perfect spot.
It's a perfect spot. Let's not let this opportunity lag and be lost. Let's support it. Let's move forward. Let's not let's not lose this opportunity as a town. Please support this proposal. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. Next, please step up. Hi, my name is Steven Doyle and I live at 25 Jesse's Landing and I invite all of the zoning board to come to my house at any time and come to my backyard.
look at the fence, go 17 feet, and then look for a building 30t high and see, put yourself in my shoes to see if that's something, if you live there, that you would want. I'm not against affordable housing. I'm 100% for it. It just, as it's been said before time and
time again, just to be done in a more acceptable way for everyone to agree with it. Thank you. We go to all the sites, just to let you know. Okay. Absolutely. And we've been there. Who wants to go next? Anybody?
No. Anybody online? Okay. Um, and we just want to take the first question because I promised Steve Buckley um to that we would ask about um the colors of the building. He asked about that and we talked about a
crosswalk. I have those on my list to talk about, but just out of um courtesy, can you just address the colors of the building? I know you sort of did in your memo, so he he doesn't have that perhaps. Sure. I'll have Paul from Union uh
address the colors. Okay. Hi, it's Paul again. Colors by committee. That is a real challenge. And I think we from the outset we were very aware that this was going to be a topic
of a discussion not only internally for Penrose and the design team when the time came to choose colors when the construction begins hopefully but also with the general public and boards. And we were very intentional in proposing
what we did. White siding with white trim, white windows with architectural detailing that reflect Greek revival architectural style which prevailent in Chattam and throughout Cape Cod. In the
historic business district commission guidelines, design guidelines, Greek revival is defined as color similar to the federal pallet were used for this period. And this was the first time that white was commonly used as a body color
as well as trim color. It's it's predominant cadam. Chattam also has a lot of uh wood shingles, natural siding that weathers to be gray. So it's a muted color. And the the uh federal pallet refers to the Georgian pallet.
And the Georgian palette also talks about was the first time that muted colors body colors included mud ochres, greenish grays, yellow ochre, light tones were used. That was in the early 1700s. But the post 1930 uh era, which we're in
now and defined in red in the guidelines, is for paintings of buildings built after 1930. The color should be appropriate for the style and form of the building and be comparable compatible to the surrounding historic buildings. In general, siding should be
unpainted wood shingles or clabbered painted white. Trim should be painted white. Window sashes should be either black or white, but not whiter than the white window trim. Doors should be dark in color, such as dark green, red, or
black. That's exactly what we're proposing. So the to introduce an array of colors into a a development or neighborhood, we have to be very careful about what that palette is and opening it up to a
conversation of color by committee. We may end up and nobody wants this storyland or Christmas tree shop development on Route One north of Boston. So, we're very aware of it and we were very intentional in the pallet we chose with
the architectural detailing that we know we can pull off. Thank you. So, I I I do acknowledge that Steve Buckley has his hand raised, but unfortunately this is not a back and forth. Um, so we're not going to acknowledge um Mr. Buckley as to that, but I'm going to get more into that when
it's my turn. Um, so this is your time for rebuttal for the letters and for what you've heard from the audience. Um, go right ahead. Um, the only uh thing I wanted to maybe address to start because we welcome your questions in the back and forth. Uh, you
mentioned crosswalks. You raised the other question. So, um, so happy to address that. Um, as we mentioned during our presentation, traffic engineer does not believe that that um, this project would meet the DOT warrants for crosswork. However, if the
board is so inclined, we are happy to as part of a decision reach out to DOT, ask them if they would approve a crosswalk at this location. If they do, the applicant would build it. However, if they refuse it and turn it down, then that would no longer be a condition that would be an impediment to the decision.
So, happy to ask and happy to go either way, but it would have to be up to what DOT they have the control of the road. So, can you just, you know, we have that in our memo on, I want to say page six or something. Um, so just tell the
audience what what this button is, what you're talking about. Right there. Yeah, you have it. We have it on your memo, page six, uh, paragraph. It's at the top. Installation. I'll just read it. Pedestrian actuated rectangular
rapid flashing beacon. Uh, and it could be advanced again subject to mass DOT review and approval. So, is that what you were going to say? Yes. Yeah, I just got a copy of that. Yeah. So, we're happy to do we we'll ask and if they approve it, that's fine. We just wouldn't want it to be a
condition that the project couldn't go forward if DOT says no. So, maybe you could you that could be on your list of things to come back to us at the next meeting if you if that works for you, you know, to see what see about that. Well, we can ask the I don't know if we'll get an answer to that question. We're happy to ask,
but you can promise to try to, you know, get the ball rolling on that. Okay. So, is there anything else you want to say now before we hear from our board? No. Thank you. No. Okay. So, Jenny, take it from the questions. Is that comments? Questions?
She um got Okay. Uh let me start with questions. Um, so Mr. Singer, does the There was a lot of discussion in the alternative plan about the one way is um does that not meet the fire department's I mean was that a definitive like no, it does not
meet it or the fire department would recommend not doing that. Let me answer one part and then turn over to Joe for the other. One response is is that the fire department is very clear that they want, you know, they need a minimum of 17 and point6 feet and that just gets them to the edge of the
edge. So the 20 ft is that what you proposed 20 20 ft. Yeah. So the 20 feet meets whether it's one way, two-way or three-way. You need the width. That's that's for the fire department. The key thing is the width to be able to make the turns. Put the And that was 20 feet.
Minimum 20 feet, but we're proposing 24 for two-way traffic. Okay, that's good to know. Um, Mr. Singer, in your summary that you wrote up, um, I don't know if it was if
I missed something or if it was a mistake, but you referenced on page eight, um, reducing heights of all eight residential buildings and then you reference a couple times, you know, five and three. So, you you say, I made a mistake. Okay. Okay, I forgot a building. It's uh
I thought there were nine buildings. There were 10 buildings. So, there were nine residential buildings uh one management building. Of the nine residential buildings, um um three of them now comply under 30 feet. Yeah. Six of them request that
variation if you had the table. That was my mistake. I apologize. Well, no. It was interesting because actually Sarah, if you can push this up a little bit or any of the renderings of the um this the setbacks for the neighbors is really important that has come up over and over
again. Um and one of the thoughts that I had that I'm kind of jumping around here, this isn't a question, it's a comment. um the the back part of the property which is Jesse's Landing and the neighbors uh to the west in particular although we also have the um the gentleman who's on the east side
with the motel if you did change the number of buildings. So, one of my questions is going to be how many units must you have? Because if if the bottom four uh buildings were changed to three, which would then be your three and five, which
would be eight, they could come in a little bit, which would um be less less mass to to Jesse's Landing and it would be a compromise. it would be something that the west side and the um the east
side could um could benefit from. So So that's why I just thought your your error was actually like we were telegraphing like oh maybe that's what he means. I have to ask about that. Um that was not what I meant. So So one of the my related questions
then is you know the density is first of all let me back up. everyone is ever I have not read or heard a single person that is not in favor of affordable housing, but yet we've had our third hearing and
there are multiple comments um about the problems with this one because of it being in the neighborhood and that's going to be the same scenario in any neighborhood. So we are at you know one of the things you mentioned Mr. Singer at the beginning of your was balance.
Okay, we can't have maximum density and then still be able to accommodate a butters uh issues at least in this proposal. So, um I I just thought that that was one of the this the ways of trying to reduce some density if we got rid of one of the buildings at the back
which is a C building which has six units in it to go from 48 to 42. My question would be and maybe you can't answer it tonight but the question would be is is that financially viable for you. So I think that's um the answer to
to that question is really to how we approach managing these properties because we have our commitment is to have full-time on-site property management. Normally our lower limit for the number of units for one property because we
want that property manager sitting there is 60 units. We're already way below that because we kind of thought that this was uh kind of the density that the site could
reasonably support and meet all the required setbacks by um on the side and rear yard. Um, so we know we really wanted to um kind of be close as close
to that 60 unit as possible and we're already way way below that to help support that full-time property manager that we really want on site. I understand that. I appreciate it. I think balance is now coming back into the equation where maybe that's not
possible. There's only three acres here and it is surrounded by a butters that have been very vocal. Um, and everyone wants the project to work, but I I felt as though maybe that one building removing that would I'm not going to
pretend it solves the problem for the abutters, but it could ease ease it a little bit and that would be three three sides could benefit from that. So So I just throw that out as a um as an idea. Um, okay. Um, and then I have some questions
and comments about trees. Okay. Is that for Mark? Okay. Yeah. So, Mark, in your proposal, if you want if we want to put up one of the tree the landscape you the friends of trees, you read you
heard the you heard their letter. Um, and I have been to that property and I counted some of the orange tags and it looks on your proposal. It's a little hard to tell, but it looked to me as though this isn't the one, but there's one
where it shows where you have diagrammed what an existing tree is and it looks like it does not have a black circle around it and then everything else that has a black circle is a new tree. Is that a fair understanding of your Yes. So on this plan that's being shown,
uh, all of the trees with the green or colored fills are new proposed trees and the ones that have no fill are existing trees that are being preserved. So the so the circles that are just circles or along the perimeter
and they represent approximately the the size of the tree. That's correct. Okay. The so then in the center of the pro so that's the perimeter in the center of the property. We're talking about one, two, three, four with a cluster. I'm not talking about the
little cluster, but one, two, three, and then the big one. Four traits. That's correct. Okay. All right. Thank you for clarifying that. Um, I don't know if if tonight you want to go through where I stand on some of these things. Is that helpful to have a
summary of you could talk about what you what conditions you might Yeah. thinking about? Well, let me let me add one more thing about architecture. That's Paul. Okay. The these comments I'm making, they're
not big things. They're really what I would call tweaks, but it it's it's in an effort to absorb what we've heard in hearing one, two, and now three. And then I keep latching on to Mr. Singer's comment about trying to uh reach ballots. So, um I I happen to agree with
you about the non-colors. uh like the white and the and the cedar shake. Um there these designs are absolutely they're fine, but they don't really and I know that you went through the elements with the divided lights and the clappers and all that pulling different
homes around Chattam. So I but the buildings themselves, they really could be anywhere. They don't scream and they are on Main Street Cadam and the HBDC district. And I think with short money, it's not my money, it's your money, so I say that. But um with a few tweaks to
the perhaps you could bring in some more chatam elements to it. For example, the rendering that shows this house. Mhm. Okay. Yep. Um if can we go to that Sarah?
So that's not I think that's a C building. Yeah, that one there. So, I think to the right, the the peak to the right, see where it has that? I think that's called a a headboard across on the top of that window. Is that right? Head casing.
Head casing. Okay. Um if if that for example, and in other instances, if that could be a little bit of a of a beefier um headboard, you know, there's a little more prominent. Um, and then not all the buildings are seized, but it would be great if you know the building that's
been referred to several times, the Fishing Alliance building, okay? The one that's 35 ft tall. You notice how in the peaks it has some of this pattern shingling, and I know that's very specialized, but we're only talking about a very small space. Um, and I'm just using this as an
example. I'm not saying it has to be that, but something like that that would make it a little more unique to Chadam because you do see that type of shingling whether it's the fish tail or it's the diamond shingling and it would just be you know in little area like
that not throughout. So if there were three sea buildings because we've removed one you're only talking about that maybe there are a couple other areas. We haven't removed one yet. Well, okay. I'm just um but you see what I mean? I think that's an example and just to say I don't think we're
going to just to be upfront about that, but turn it back to on the on the and again I know I'm getting like really granular, but I'm trying to um give you some of some of the thoughts that I had about what I I don't dislike the buildings, but I think that we could
like them a little better. They are going to be on Main Street and part of HBDC. So, that was an idea. I do appreciate that you have the eaves and the returns. Um but any places like that where without it being a super costly endeavor if it could be um and that head
casing was one. Is that right? Head casing. Yeah. That was just one example where it could be um Okay. Okay. Thanks for your input. Okay. So that was um the comment about now the let me just get back to the trees for a second. I think the trees
are probably one of the most important things that is going to complement the architecture and help with the abuter's concerns for privacy. So I really think that um the tree trees are going to be my biggest area of focus going forward.
I would like to see more trees uh preserve that are on that property. One of the comments that was made for I forget which property it was was that things were clear-cut and then you're planting new trees, but you cannot replace some of those really mature
trees that are on that property. It may require a little shifting of design. Um, but it's so important for the for the perimeter and for I think just the aesthetic of the whole property as you're driving down Main Street um 28 to
to see these really established trees. It will add so much um character to that and it won't look like a brand new development, I think, as as much as it maybe looks to others when they look at some of the other renderings. Um, so maybe I'll stop there with
Paul. What say you? Um, well, I would uh I need some more information and I'm going to ask a few questions as we go forward here, but um, one of the things that we've talked about is we're talking about a lot of units and bedrooms and so forth. How
many people do you expect to be living in this facility? Um, well, I mean that the the quick answer would be, you know, three folks in the three bedrooms and two persons in the two bedrooms and one person in one bedroom, but but it it varies a little
bit because there's all different types of households. Um, so, uh, I don't Can you do that math for us if you would? I I assume that I assume that you're not looking for a quick answer here, but rather I'm looking for a considered answer given the fact that
you people have the expertise. What I'm thinking about here is in this unit, in this production, you're going to have a number of people and I assume that there would be a mix of adults and children.
Um, and what would that be given that we're also looking at parking and we're looking at financial restrictions that uh need to work given that you are directing with uh you've got seven units at at uh 30% of AMI. Mhm.
So can you give us some more information about what the people are going to be and how many they're going to be so that we can get a better feel for uh what the density is in terms of population. Sure. Uh I feel that uh village in Green
in East is a is is a great analog for this project. um they have 65 units there, but it's the same type of unit mix in terms of percentages of three bedrooms and percentages of two bedrooms. Um which
follows the HLC guidelines. Um and so I don't have those numbers handy on me, but we could get them and provide them to the board about what the current um mix and number of residents are there. I do actually have the parking on the top
of my head there. Um at Village and Oasa Green, our parking ratio is 1.55 spaces uh per unit and um a lot of them aren't being used. Um as of a month ago, I believe there was 75
um parking passes for residents. So that's around like a was it 1.1 cars per unit? Do your do your leases specify uh the number of parking spaces that a tenant has?
No, we we don't assign parking spaces because it's less efficient. You end up having unused parking spaces for a certain amount of time and and people tend to come and leave the property at different times that you get better use and therefore you need less spaces with
unassigned spaces. But um we do give um stickers so when people sign their leases they know they they have their car registered and we know that car belongs in in um on the property not having a specific space to drive in
them. Mhm. Okay. Um and the uh uh so there's no restriction on the number of cars that a tenant can have other than the fact that you issue a permit for them.
Well, I I don't know the answer to that specifically. I I believe there probably is. I I've never heard of that being an issue of a resident having too many cars. Um but we can follow up and get more information at if from you know
village at NASA green where it's not the case. Um but we can ask uh if they if we if at there there is a limit in the lease of vehicles. Okay. I think if you provide that information that would be very helpful
in in making some of the collateral decisions that we have to make here and give us an idea of what the place is going to look like in ter when it's actively uh engaged with people. Can I add a little bit to that? I think
as a resident signs up, we know that they have a car. Uh so the property manager is there every day and they are managing and assessing the situation and our typical approach is that people get their parking passes. We know how many
cars are going to be on site and we don't kind of actively manage it until it becomes an issue. And unless it's a site in an urban area where we might only have five parking spaces um on a development like this, we don't u based
on our experience with East Ham and uh other properties uh in the region, we don't anticipate um this being an issue. Okay. Um you've uh you've talked about the uh
common building and the fact that the space has been reduced uh given some comments that we've made. Um you're currently thinking in terms of uh uh meeting house road uh property as well.
Do you uh have any concept of of perhaps combining the functions that would come from a common uh location uh so that you can use one for both locations?
We had entertained that. Um but as they're currently designed and and meeting houses not as designed as this um we have created space on the meeting house property so it' be sufficient to be self-managed on its own.
I think right now we have this property this application in front of you uh and meeting house has not been submitted yet. It has not been approved yet at this point. It is still and financing
hope may not be exactly at the same time. So we have to be prepared in that situation where we set this property up for success where if that there's no guarantees with any development. Um so at this point we have
to design them separately but we um and because of the distance between the two properties and talking to the our affiliated property management company um it's really hard for one property manager to go from one site to another
and um it's maybe a resident will go from this site to the other site for an amenity but um most likely Um, we don't see that happen very often where you drive a few miles for amenities on another site.
Is the common is the common building designed to provide support services for the people that are in the units here? Yes. Yes. We have a specific office set aside for um what we call our impact
coordinators, which is a resident services um which is not the property manager or leasing agent. So presumably those impact services would also be present at meeting house among other things or for that matter they're present at Lake Street. Yes. And and that actually is a position
that does get shared among properties in close proximity because it's difficult for a individual property to support that extra staff member and usually at a property of this size full-time really isn't needed. So that would be one
position that could potentially be shared between these two and also with our fair project in Orleans. Actually fair in Orleans I believe as sharing um some hours with the impact coordinator at village and green.
All right. Um one of the concerns that I have is uh is the streetscape and how that's affected by the uh by the development. Um and that depends in part on where the taller buildings are, where
they are not, and the relationship to the other buildings around that. We often in uh in our hearings on uh individual homes that are being considered are presented with u a graphic uh in effect a uh a 3D v uh view
from helicopter uh going around the properties and showing the relationship to uh neighboring properties uh and vegetation. And I'm wondering whether you would consider doing that kind of a video presentation that would
enable us then to assess uh the buildings as you're proposing them with uh the houses that are uh directly around there and the buildings Dunkin Donuts or uh or the Chattam Motel
uh so that we can get a feel for what this actually would look like when it's done. Sure. That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure whether or not the cap because I the capabilities are there to do that.
So I don't want to commit to that. I think the question is you're looking for 3D basically a SIMS model of the entire site. Yes. Yes. And and including the immediate neighboring property so that
we can see what the impact is from from what we see. I mean that that kind of software seems to exist in terms of some of the home home projects that we look at elsewhere in town. I think for one building it would
definitely be feasible if we're proposing one large building. Um, but I guess uh with a site like this that's uh you're building a whole model like a whole a whole a whole
like neighborhood. Um so that uh we can talk about it. Uh but it seems like to me if we were building one apartment building here, we would be able to do that for you. But when you're looking at a whole neighborhood, it's like building a Sims model. uh which is pretty
involved and uh I don't think it's something that we are going to be able to do. You want this is Paul. It is possible. It's a matter of how extensive that model and that rendering is going to be. I mean
you can do a very complicated very detailed fly through anything can be done or you can do something very simple a massing model. So I think that's something that the team we could talk about to see what might be appropriate to address that concern.
Okay. I I think that would be uh that would be helpful and you certainly have heard the concerns that have been expressed in terms of height and density uh visa v the balance of the neighborhood. Uh and that can give you some guidance as to what we're looking for. Um,
just a quick question. How many of these units will be handicapped accessible and how many visual or hearing impaired accessible? Well, there are building code requirements to that which we meet. Um, I forget the exact percentage. We
haven't gotten to the point where we've actually identified them on the floor plans, although I believe we we've identified which buildings would be able to have the have the um access to the accessible um parking spaces. To further answer that question, all of
the ground floor units will be accessible for a mass accessibility code. Okay. Thank you. Um and uh I think that may be the extent of the questions that I have at this point. Um
in addition to the information that you've already provided, if I think of more, I'll let you know. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Um, a couple of questions. Uh, I I don't
believe there's any conservation issues with with the site. Um, and I know you're uh you've proposed um pretty much native trees uh along the Butters Line, but
uh I think the neighbors might be happier with uh trees that perhaps grow faster and and perhaps are not native like Leland Cyprus comes to the to my mind to to prevent a a better screening in that
area. Uh it's Maybe not politically correct, but uh if you're trying to, you know, prevent provide some screening to the neighbors, maybe a tree that grows 2 feet a year would be uh would be better.
So, we've chosen a pallet that is fully native, which I believe is in support of the RFP um and trees that are suitable to the site and the cape. Um
we can explore alternatives, but uh we feel that what has been proposed does provide adequate screening. As a landscape architect, if you had no restrictions to the type of tree there,
what would provide the best screening possible? Well, uh, one of the trees that we are proposing, the evergreen tree, the American holly, is a very dense tree and is is one of the best screening trees um
that we use on projects that um don't require natives. Uh and it also is a question to what kind of screening because there's you can take the tact of building a green wall
uh which sometimes calls more attention to the fact that there's something behind it. And we've included um the the American holl in places where we've thought we need the extra level of
screening and then there's a mix of deciduous and flowering trees that will provide uh more screening throughout the year. And so the the variation uh helps to break up that green wall
effect and not have you looking to what's behind it. Um so that's our approach and and that's typical of what what we would do on projects like this. Um my next question uh the community
building. So, it's obvious the Cape and in particularly Chadam has an issue with affordable units. Um, that building, if that wasn't a
community building and it was uh a building for residents, how many additional units could you could there be built there? Six.
eight. I mean, there could be more units there, but then we wouldn't have the ability to manage them effectively and and so I mean, we feel very strongly that what we're having here. I mean, it's similar
to like sometimes uh I make the comparison. It's, you know, like having a restaurant, but then saying, well, how many more tables could you fit if you got rid of the kitchen? um probably more tables, but we wouldn't
be able to serve. And so that space is maintenance space, maintenance storage space, the workshop. It's um a conference room to meet with new residents and applicants. It's the property manager's office. It's um what
we call the community room, which is like the function room and the heart of the neighborhood and the community. Um, and that's been designed um, that's been built or it had been designed by our Penrose design standards, which is all
our sort of learning lessons on how to manage and build these properties that we've developed over the past 50 years, over 50 years, 350 different developments. We've come up with this design standards for new developments with, you know, based in certain regions
and the type of development. And that's space was actually given to Union Studios the specs like this is what we need from the input from management folks on how to effectively manage this site. So um I'm sure we could add more
units, but that's something we we can't remove from from the development. Yeah, if I might just follow up because I I hear a trend with several of the questions and it comes back to what I talked about at the beginning and and you mentioned it about, you know, about the balance and what I said about
competing interests. If you look at what you're struggling with, you've got, you have heard the following comments this afternoon. Have 50 foot buffers from the neighbors. Push the buildings further back from Route 28. Don't cut any trees.
They're all competing. you know, we can't do everything when you're looking at a project like this. You know, as you said, could you move this or that? You know, a management building, as you've heard from Penrose, is very important, and the design as they're proposing it to have that neighborhood feel is very
important. All of the buildings comply with the side setbacks of the zoning bylaw. So, no waiverss are being requested for side or rear setbacks. There is already waiverss being requested for the front setback. um as you can see the property line that curves across the front front there and
several of the buildings uh you know do comply with height and so again it's it's the struggle that I see you know undertaking as well which is how do we how can we satisfy as much as possible you're never going to satisfy everybody
but how can you do in order to provide this housing in a safe effective and desirable manner what can you do that might work and we're going to give you more answers on certain things obviously to the questions we're hearing but I just wanted to point that out again because I I just hear the tension as as
the questions keep coming and and maybe I should point out I'm not suggesting you reduce the number of units I'm suggesting you have a landscape company you outsource all of that and Chadam gets more units which is what we need and not
a community building which we I know would be nice for the residents um But Chattam needs more afford affordable units and that's what I would like to see. Okay. So, um David Beach, you're up.
Wow. Um well, actually, so I mean I'll start with I just have one qu question and um that I I something something triggered this thought earlier. Um,
and I started wondering about um um the um placement of um mechanicals on the on the property, generators, air conditioning units, things because we deal with this all the time because
Chadam has a bylaw that that that covers that and and so I'm just wondering if there's thought been given to that and um and that uh at least as far as you
are. So far, you're not seeking waiverss from uh setbacks with regard to that those units or those th those pieces of equipment, exterior mechanical equipment. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't gotten to the level of
detail of the mechanicals, but we are knowledgeable about that and we we know that we can put the mechanicals into the setback. Okay. So if they are like the condensers if they will be ground mounted they will be screened and off and not in the
setbacks. Okay. I I just it just you know I went well we haven't heard about that and maybe they haven't addressed it yet but sounds like you're you're yeah you're thinking about it. And we give you an update. Um Paul, just so you in Penrose is
aware, um at this year's annual town meeting, there was an amendment to the zoning bylaw, which we're waiting to hear back from the AG on regarding exterior mechanicals where it's not at ground level anymore. It's anywhere within the setback needs to they need to meet road a butter
and conservancy district setback except by special permit through the board of appeals. Okay. Thank you. And when we get to that point, if that just to follow the legal part of that, uh, if that required another waiver request for one or more, we'd have to
add that, but we haven't at this point. Okay, go ahead. So then um I I I'm feeling kind of lonely uh because I'm hearing uh much discussion with with respect to the
um the uh uh community building or whatever we want to call it. I've even heard some speculation that's probably not a good name to call it in in Chadam for one reason or another. Um but and I've seen
some and I'm I just want to continue to express that I think that that's I'm trying to think about the people who are going to live here. And I want to commend you for
designing for what life is going to be like in this space and having a community uh a building to do the work you need to do. I'm in a way I'm I'm sorry to see the uh
fitness room go, but I do I think that you know in conjunction with that a little bit of a reduced um um waiver of the setback in the front is probably a good thing, but I'm I'm not um in favor
of reducing. I I don't want to I don't want to see us or the town in order to to try to do balancing here. I really don't want to see us start chipping away at the amenities that you're providing for the people that are going to live there. So, I just need to
say that and and I want to commend you for for for and I feel like the design that you have presented to us and with some tweaks here and there. It looks very much to me like it's it is designed to satisfy the needs of the
people who are going to be living there because these people are people are there going to be people that are working here in in this town and surrounding towns and working for the town etc. And we owe them the best that we can give them. And so I I I need to
say that and I don't want us to keep chipping away because we're trying to satisfy some of the other the competing interests that keep being expressed to us and maybe we feel like well we need to do this and
you know that that and then and then as far as the the um you know seeking pushing us to maybe say well you need to give a better you know more than setbacks or greater setbacks than the than what the zone currently allows. I'm
not inclined to to be even discussing that honestly because I think that this I mean I have maybe more faith in some of the professional work that's gone into this and and some of the previous decisions that have been made with
respect to it by by the board of selectmen and affordable housing trust etc. And um you know I think that there's been a lot has gone into this and and um it's I'm keeping in mind that this is a this is sponsored by the town.
This proposal is sponsored by the town. And I do believe that in in the other thing I just want to say that in in reading through the material that um our town council given us about
explanations about 40B and it being a balancing thing is it seems to me I've seen the statement several times that density is pretty much not on the table to to um try to adjust in a project like this. So, I
don't think I have anything else at this point, Randy. Okay. Thank you. So, Lee and then Steve and then me. Um, okay. Well, I have a question regarding um the R20 zone. We are in the
R20 zone and the setback uh is 15 ft and these all meet them, I believe. It's kind of hard to see. I see the one in the southeast corner um is at 177. Um and the other ones I'm assuming are
the same. I don't see any direction, you know, any I was going to clarify that. So yes, the um closest one to the Southerntherly of Butter is 17.7. Um all of the other ones I scaled it. It's about 18 or more feet for all of
the other rear buildings. So So they're meeting those. Correct. In the R20. Is it different since it is a not a res I mean it is residential but is it different? No. Because of the project. No, it is that
those are the setbacks. Okay, that was my first question. Um um I I actually do want to talk about the community center for just a minute. I um I have to say that the letter from um Tracy Cannon changed my opinion on
the community center. I think some good modifications have been made um and I believe that it's more appropriate now and I I I I trust her judgment. She has a lot of experience in this area and um I I agree with her. I think it's going
to be a huge benefit to this project. Um I also um happen to be a fan of fencing and I don't think it would send the wrong message as some people have said. I think um along with the planting um
that would create a nice um buffer and a nice privacy and a fence I don't think would hurt. So um those are my thoughts on that. I do have a question regarding the as Paul mentioned the number of people that perhaps may be living here.
Um you spoke about your project in Orleans and that you had 600 applicants and I'm curious as to and you don't have to tell me this now but I'm curious as to whether or not you can get the data as to how many people actually are
living there as of now or may be living there. So those are my those are my thoughts. Steve. Um, well, first of all, I I want to just thank you for um explaining things from
your perspective a little bit better, maybe going into a little bit more detail. Um, so I, you know, I understand things from your side of the fence a little bit better than than I did before. So, I thank you for going into a little bit more detail. I have a couple
of questions. Um, I'm going to try to rank these in order of difficulty. So, uh, I'll do the best I can with that. Um, I was going to ask about the crosswalks. I actually see them on on the site on the site plans. I see, um, cuts going across saw cuts and pavement
patches going across 28. That was actually for the water piping. That That's for utilities. It's not a walkway. It's not a walkway. That's just the saw cut where the utilities would be going in. But but that's presumably when we ask DOT, that's where we would ask.
All right. Um the admin building or the community building, I think, um I think what you the adjustments that you made are are good. Um but I'd like to maybe see you put a little more effort into making
that look a little bit better. Maybe some dormers on the roof. Maybe make that look a little bit less commercial. You could even put some skylights under the under the uh the dormers to make them uh natural. Take a look at that.
Okay. Thank you. See, not difficult. Um I think in part of your presentation, you said that there was going to be 247 management. So the property manager will be there
during normal business hours. So Monday to Friday 9 to5 the maintenance person will be there same normal business hours but they will be on 24/7 like if something happens overnight a toilet
kind of has an issue. Um if it's a for all emergencies uh our maintenance person is on call to help address those issues immediately. So, there's no sleeping quarters or anything for a property manager? No. Okay.
Um, I didn't hear anybody talk about any kind of solar energy. A lot of these buildings are rear or south facing. Uh, at least the rear of the buildings are south facing. This is Paul again. We've designed the buildings on the roofs to accommodate
solar panels so they at least they'll be solar ready. Okay. And prepared for it. And then it's uh I think it's a question for Penrose to get the financing together and and implement that. Okay. But it's on the radar. Yes. Oh, absolutely.
Um um on this particular project, I have to go back and look at the LDA, but I believe there may be it's more than just being solar ready on this project. There may be planned steps for actual installation um in the future.
There will be. And I guess I want to elaborate a little bit more on the what something we said earlier in our presentation is that these are designed to meet passive house requirements. And for those who aren't familiar with it, it's actually the design of the building
to create the insulation necessary so that there isn't very little airflow between outside and inside so that when you turn on the AC uh during do your day, close the door, leave, turn off the
AC, and you come back, it's it's still it's still very cool inside afterwards because the insulation overall for the building is kind of to to a level that uh it means that you're not having to spend as much money on
electricity to heat or cool the apartment. So, um we have had a lot of tenants who have had uh lower utility bills and we all know electricity bills. These are all electric buildings because that's what we have to build to nowadays. electric rates are really
high. And uh one of our commitments to the quality of life for the residents is also hopefully with these um above code required um energy requirements that were meeting uh that it will lead to lower utility bills for the residents
also. And then I think the last one I was going to ask which is probably uh the most difficult um and I realize it might take a tremendous amount of reconfiguration but was there any consideration of putting the loop
road around the back of the buildings. So kind of swapping the road with the buildings and moving the buildings inward and the roadway outward. Sorry, this is Paul again. Early early on before the RFP response was
submitted, we probably we did a lot of iterative design processes. So, but that was never presented at any point in time to the public or the the board or the RFP. So, okay. All right. Thank you.
Okay. So, I like to lather before I shave. Well, not that I shave, but um All right. So, I I too um am in favor of the Tracy Cannon concept. Let's call it the Canon concept. And I I give up on
the community center. Um I noted that you had made it smaller. And um but I just do want to say that our member that talked about that, he wasn't trying to take away anything from residents. he was trying to add more built add more uh
units and so you know that that is not the same as trying to say oh they don't need that because this is about affordable housing so I commend that and I would rather see more units there so and I don't think any of us have really gone on any band bandwagon to get rid of
units at all we're not really asking that so um so all right so I'm not going to say anything about the community center um I've also given up on the height. I you've made some uh changes and I'm not going to talk about how I wish you wouldn't have a building that's
4T over. Um but I I will get to some points about that location in a moment and what you might want to do. Um I appreciate the crossing button and um I would if we don't get answers from the is it the DOT? If we don't, I would like
to consider conditioning that. And if you can't do it at the end of the day, then you can't do it. But that it should be conditioned that there'd be some kind of crossing button. Um, but we don't have to decide any of that today. We're not near we're not we're not there yet, but I'm just throwing that out there
that I'm not giving up on that. And I'm and I'm sure some other members aren't either. Um, okay. So, I also appreciate the open-mindedness with regard to the HBDC colors. But you know what I'm wondering is when we gave you the HBDC
design guidelines right at the beginning of the meeting, how do you characterize these buildings? Because we thought, at least Sarah and I thought that maybe they were colonial revival, but you were talking about Greek revival and then you went into a few different things and you
know, and there's different color palettes for each one. So, can you pick what you think this is most like? Or do you think it's a hybrid? Or And you don't have to necessarily answer me now, but if you want to, you can. I could. And I think I did earlier that it was Greek Revival. So, that's what you think.
Yeah. And but we're open to incorporating some of the Georgian color palettes, which are the small the muted natural colors that aren't the bright bold of some colonial and other historical colors, but but much more muted. So,
so maybe it's at a future meeting we could sort of come to, you know, an agreement on that and condition it, you know, because we don't want to leave it in the breeze like, um, yeah, we'll consider this HBDC thing. Yeah, sure. We want to actually condition it. And so I want to talk about that at another
meeting so that we can agree on something that this board would vote on with regard to color. Um, so I just want to throw that out there, you know, and it seems like you're flexible about it. We are. We're not trying to look like Disneyland or anything like you said. We're not I
mean, you know. Okay, so that was that. Now, now I'm going to get into something that I think is a little bit complicated. At least for me, it is. Um, so the fire department um talked about, and Sarah's going to put something up on
the screen. Um, he talked about uh a safe turning radius, especially in front of building three. So, we don't want to play with fire here, obviously, and we don't want to jeopardize the safety of the people that they wouldn't be able to
get to potentially. You know, this is not this is not funny. So, we want to make sure that we're not relying on people to know how to park correctly in order for the fire truck to be able to get by and put out in a fire on buildings like four, five, and six or
whatever that is. So, I want to just throw out the concept of um eliminating that space or whatever spaces you need to eliminate because you came in thinking maybe 1.3 is reasonable and then you went up to 1.7, but I I'd like
to see you go back down by everything I've heard. I I I would like to see you at least consider going back down in order to take out some of the hardcape and absolutely make sure that there's no question whatsoever that a fire truck can put out fires in these buildings.
Sarah, is there any way? Sure. I I can address that. Um the slide that I included in the the presentation, I actually was I clipped a a more recent version of our fire turning plan that showed that we can meet that uh the the
requirement that the firearm was talking about. So see this if you compare this plan as I mentioned there's some nuance in this. This is you actually are driving the truck through the development. So if you look kind of by the crosswalk, there's there's quite a bit of room there where
between the truck and the edge of the curbs lines, right? So what we did was we just went back and re drove the truck through the development and we um you know stayed away from those parking spaces. So because we're so you know we
have enough width where we're not stuck right on you know a certain path is all we can drive. So, we went in and adjusted it based on his comment. And as you can see there, I have a pointer here, I guess. Oh, so you you already did that one.
Yeah, we already did that. That's what I'm trying to say. We did it and we incorporated it in and I I hadn't had a chance to send it to the fire chief yet. Yeah. Okay. But I would want him to take another look at that still. And still, let's just go back to the issue of parking a little bit to try to like if
if you did go down to maybe 1.4 four or 1.5. Do you think you could push the buildings over away from the abut like the Levit? I'm just gonna say it that the Levit side because and I'm going to get to something that we might be able to do with the back in a moment because
yeah, you meet the setback the measly little 15 foot setback, but do you think when the Levit bought that or anybody bought property around there, they thought tall buildings were going to be next to it? So maybe you meet the setbacks, but maybe it's just fundamentally immoral to go ahead and
put tall buildings so close. So anything you could do to try to ameliorate that would be great. So I think overall we're not big into parking either. So,
you're reading my mind and we have already started looking at what a balance might be uh and seeing uh what we could potentially do if we reduce some parking spaces. That's great. So, we could talk about that next time. And also um I'm a big
fan of everybody having a space that you know the again we're talking about quality of life and if I was going to rent somewhere thank god I haven't had a rent in a long time but I don't want a space for God's sakes you know I wouldn't want to wonder if I'm getting home from work at you know for a second
shift or something I got to drive around and park far and then I'm personally afraid of parking lots at night. So, um, yeah, I think that you should at least consider everybody getting one spot allotted at least if they want it. Okay,
so that's that's another thing. Um, so let's see now the back the I guess they're buildings four through seven. That that's another um, you know, I understand you meet that's the 17 foot, you know, essentially. And what about
the idea of just pushing them up an amount, maybe 3 to 5 feet, so that you could put more evergreens in and have enough space to be able to take care of them properly. Um, so that would be some a buffer for I know you don't want to put a fence and and quite frankly, the
people that live over there, you know, in these properties, they could put a fence. You know, if you pay $ three and a half million dollars for a home, you probably can afford a fence. So, I'm going to take this that side on that. But I do think that you should move the
build those tall buildings in whatever amount you can possibly do and keep it safe. Get rid of some spaces and put evergreens there. So, I'm trying to get like, you know, more technical now. So, you know, I know this is our third
hearing and um you know, so those are my my thoughts. Don't know if I have any more. Let's see. Oh, yeah. One more question. That Orleans uh location, did you use local preference there? Just wondering.
Yes, we did. Uh to the maximum that uh the state HLC allowed um which is 70%. And the way we handled the preference on Orleans was there was actually two local preferences. There
was one just for the town of Orleans. Um, and then there was a separate what we're calling what we called a regional preference for towns that um had contributed CPC funds to the to that specific project. And there was seven other towns outside of Orleans that
contributed. Um, so what it ended up being was I think 63% um local preference for people who live, work, or have children that go to school. That's what kind of defines the preference live, work or children that
go to that school system. Uh 63% for Orleans and then 7% for the regional and that got us to the full 70% that the state allows and and however that is just for lease up that is not an ongoing
preference. It's they only allow it for the initial lease up. Okay. All right. So, does anybody else have anything that they want to add or comment on? Did Dave mouth is moving?
Just just Randy just in to your comment about the buildings which maybe maybe there is some room to move them all but I just keep keep in mind that you know Chadam's R20 zone
presupposes 15t setbacks to the property line and a height of 30 feet. So now there are a few couple of buildings back there that do exceed the
30 ft, but the others don't. So the our zoning bylaw has set that up as a as basically saying that's an acceptable development in an R20 zone. So So three out of four of those buildings
do exceed 30 ft. So I'm of the Yes. Okay. The one on the on the southwest corner does not, right? Southeasternly I think it might I believe it's the southeasterly does not exceed 30 feet. Southeasterly
right all of the all of the C type buildings exceed 30 ft and the B building does not correct so those four in the back they all do don't they? No, no, one doesn't. One out of four compies. One out of four. So the the building stand by that
comment and even if it was even if they were all 30 ft, I'd still say that. Randy Randy, I would make one other comment. Actually, sorry. We're just we're looking at that on the fly. Two of those buildings in the back. Can Could you put that one back up, Sarah?
Which which is the A, which is the B? So the A complies at 30 feet is the B. The B complies at 30 feet. These two C's are request waiverss. So maybe you could put the evergreens right around those and push those up.
Yeah. And and like I said before you even pointed that out, I said I would have still said that, you know, even if they were all right on the nose at 30 just just because I just out of cooperation. Paul, Randy, I would just like to generally point out as you mentioned at the
beginning, we had uh like 99 pages of comments that were sent in to the board. And u I don't want you to think that uh from the comments or the questions or push backs that we make that u we're indicating that we're going to go one
way or another in terms of a decision on each of these individual messages. We appreciate the fact that you're sending in comments and that you're here and that you're providing us with things to think about and question and a lot of
that has taken a lot of time and in some cases expenses. Um so don't think that it's something that we're not appreciative of and we don't need. We do need. Thank you. Okay. So what was the next date that we
talked about? August 21, I think. So, can we just Yes, sir. Could I could I just add just a couple of quick things if you don't mind? Can you say your name again? I certainly can. Sorry. So, I'm I'm Charlie Adams from Penrose and um I sort of have the benefit of of of um being able to see how these guys are doing it
and not being, you know, in all the weeds on time. And and a couple of things I just wanted to to say here at the end, but some of the different things that we've heard and and what these guys are doing. If you remember at the beginning, Andrew sort of started off by saying it's a lot of stuff that's trying to to compete. And so these guys are working really hard to try to figure
out how to do that. And and I think, you know, what I really liked about tonight is I feel like we got a little bit of direction too on on where the right places are to push pull. Um you know, some people wanted more parking, some people wanted less parking. We want less parking. If we have less parking, we might be able to do a little bit more for the utter. So those I mean, if
that's if that's that's that's really exciting for us and we can go do that. Um, and and on that theme, I I you know, I want to be careful with the narrative here that like we we really are trying to address the abuter's concerns and this is a very very very tight site. Um, and the goal that the the town of Chadam
had the goal to maximize density. And so when you're trying to to do those two things, there are limited places where we can push and pull, but we're really trying to do it. And as as you know, just for the record to remind everybody, we had nine buildings. They we've lowered all of them. Every single building has been lowered. and some have been all the way brought down to the to
the 30 feet and the and they're all in the back with the 17 foot requirement. So, we're we're we're trying to meet that as best we can. So, I know these guys are working really hard to do that and try to figure that out. Um and and we'll be able to bring that back. Um just a couple of small things I want to say because I don't want any other rumors to get out here. Just just to be
really crystal clear on solar. Solar was a really important thing that we talked about with with the town with the uh board of selectmen and um and the committee. So what we have committed to is basically and I don't know the exact words but the but the the general sense is not the sense what we are going to do
is basically put solar wherever solar actually bene benefits like actually can be produced. So that's going to be our goal is every building will have that except the buildings that don't have enough shade and don't so we're just throwing away money. So that's the working principle of how we're going to address solar and and it's not fair to
Paul because you know he wasn't part of all those uh those conversations in other places. We've just just done solar ready. Um and the last thing just I just small note that I wanted to two other things I wanted to make. Um you know the the we keep talking about this over 30 feet. One thing from the narrative that
we all should remember is and I got this from Paul is that the top height of of of any any uh top of window in any of the buildings is only 27 and a half. So you know we keep talking about these buildings being being over but you know that's that's above the window head
that's above the that's the roof line. That's that all that other stuff. So, I just think that's an important part of the narrative for us to be thinking about when we're talking about the height of these of these buildings. Um, and then the last last thing I can say and and I'm glad you know just one other thing that we have to always be conscious of over here on this side is
that there are other voices that have a lot of say in the success of this development outside of this room and and those the biggest voices are the funders that have to provide all the state and resources. So the stuff that you see here that we're planning is stuff that we know that can be funded. And so when
there are other things that are proposed uh you know in terms of different site plans, we know those things will not get funded. And we can get into that more later if you want in the next session. But like those are some of the limiting limiting factors like we if we there are certain things we we know we can bring to the state and they will provide us the funding for it. There's other things
types of housing modules and things that we'll bring and they won't fund it. So something that this group is always keeping in mind that I don't think we do, you know, as good a job of communicating collectively to to this group about the other voices that are out there that we're we're also trying to balance. So we're trying to balance needs in this room and we also are
trying to balance make this an actually feasible project that can get financing and actually can be built and serve the serve the community. Those are just a couple of points that that I wanted to make. So thank you for Yeah. And I'm I'm glad we had somewhat of a meeting of the mind about being very concerned about the abutters. And we haven't made we haven't said one
thing about the height today. So, you know, we don't need to talk about that again. Um that I know of. I'm just speaking myself right now as to that. And then the other thing is that whatever you can do with regard to spaces and with and the abuts, please
come back with that and come back with an argument why you need less spaces and show us some evidence why for that because I'm certainly wide open to that. You know the more parking lot is not appealing at all and especially if the spaces aren't likely to be used. So um
yeah, so we'd really like you to focus on the abutters for next time and all the things that we said. Does anyone else have anything? No. So, is August 21st? Yeah. And just so you know, we we don't pick dates randomly. We have now
with this and we we understand that meeting house is coming like within a week even. Um we're going to have meetings every single solitary week, every Thursday. And you have to remember, you know, we're we're a volunteer group here of citizens and um you know, we're doing the best we can.
And I think we're the best panel that you could ever be in front of probably in the probably in America if I had I do in the world. In the world. Don't sell yourself short. Oh, I'm sorry. Could I could I could I say one other small thing because again I I don't want rumors to get out out of this room. Uh there was one comment made by by someone
that came up here about talking about people being thrown out of these developments. They make too much money. That is not true. Nobody nobody gets thrown out. No, we we we take it from and the rules are very specific. I mean, the details are you can go up over a certain level of income. You no longer qualify as an affordable unit. So, that means you have to have other units that
come in to fill as affordable, but that person that's there can live there forever. Okay. So, you understand why we have to fit you in on the 21st because that's not a regular meeting date. And so, we're trying to give you your own date for the benefit of the public, too. So, um so I guess we should have a motion to
do we need a motion to go to August 21? Uh we need a motion to continue the hearing to August 21st at 2 p.m. Yes, sir. I just has to clarify. So, but we're going to be preparing responses to the question we heard today. It's also my understanding just want to confirm that the peer reviewer is going to be doing the civil review and the traffic review
between now and then and they're going to be available on the 21st as well. We hope we hope. We can't you goal. Yeah, that is certainly the goal. We can only we can't guarantee what somebody else is going to if they're going to meet a deadline. Now, I just want to check our attorney is online. Um, Jay
Talon, do you have anything you want to add except for what a great job we did tonight? Uh, put the uh words right in my mouth. Um, no, I think that um I think it was a good meeting. I think what we can do is the the board discussed some possible
changes and the applicant's going to consider them. We should be filing them away for a discussion that we may have either the 21st or likely the the session after that after we get the peer review because there's a discussion at a certain point when we get done with the
technical stuff as we've talked about before where we say this is what we'd like you to maybe think about changing and then we get into the discussion which we only touched on a little bit today on whether that's feasible or infeasible under the standard under 40B. So all of that like kind of horse
trading discussion is going to happen after we do some of the peer review because the peer review is going to result in probably some further modifications. Nothing maybe nothing major but it's going to result in something for sure. Okay. Thank you. So well
I will move to uh continue this application to another hearing on August 21st 2025. And the voters on that will be uh Jenny, um Steve, I believe. No. And Paul, myself, and Dave each. Is that
correct, Sarah? We we're trying to we're making sure we follow the rules on the voting. So, we can try we're trying to make it so we any of us could vote at the end of the day on the project. We understand that the Mullen rule does apply here and if we need to, you know, to do that, we will. Um because we have
a member that's absent tonight and we've had a member that's already been absent in the past. So we're keeping track. Yeah. And and my understanding of the Mullen rule is you can miss one meeting. Correct. Still if you watch the video and do the thing. Can you repeat that list of who you just said who's currently going to vote tonight?
Oh, you mean just voting for We're just voting for the continuence. That's all. That's all. Yeah. Okay. So, let's have a vote on the continuence. Jenny, so Dave seconds and votes yes. Oh, yes. Thank you. And you vote yes. Um Jenny Jenny votes yes. Steve. Steve votes yes. Paul vote Paul vote yes
as do I. So that's unanimous. And then we need a motion to adjurnn. A move to adjourn. Dave seconds and votes yes. Uh Ed votes yes. Paul votes yes. I vote yes. Steve votes yes. Genie votes yes. As do I. That's unanimous. Okay. Good
day Chad a minute. What time is it? 5:33. Thank you very much. Thank you. Very good. [Music] [Music]