##VIDEO ID:NpndSDqjJ-c## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Happ good afternoon everyone this is the October 24th 2024 meeting of the town of cadams zoning board of appeals pursuant to Governor hey's March 29th 2023 signing of the acts of 2023 extending certain covid measures adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law until March 31 2025 this meeting of the chadam zoning board of appeals is being conducted in person and via remote participation every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in the order a reminder that persons who'd like to listen to this meeting while progress may do so by calling the phone number 508 945 4410 conference ID 942 44613 pound or join the meeting online via Microsoft teams through the link in the posted agenda while this is a live broadcast and simoc cast on chadam TV despite our best efforts we may not be able to provide for realtime access we will post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible in accordance with the town policy the public can speak to any issue or hearing or business item on the agenda during the meeting when recognized by the chair and there's a five minute limit on those type of comments um the procedural steps are as follows we um call a role of all members which we'll do now to authorize this form of a meeting star start at this end with Dave v um yes um Dave v i uh approve of this form of meeting Ed Acton yes Dave Nixon I approve policy sample I approve Lee Hy I approve Steve dor I approve Virginia Fenwick I approve and Randy podes I approve as well we ask that any citizens or non-board members participating via the phone you give us their last four digits of their phone number and um their name for identification purposes um the hearing notices will be read by staff s o00 on my right um You are your representative will um present your appeal or application anyone in favor of the application will have a chance to respond then I will read and and summarize all the letters that we've received I'll ask if there's anybody against the application or has a specific question next the applicant can have a chance to rebut any anything that they've heard members will ask questions to anyone present if they if they'd like to um we'll hear further information close the hearing deliberate and usually we vote we'll take all votes by roll call and at the end of the meeting we will close via a verbal confirmation and note the time of adjournment so at this point Paul we have some minutes for September 26 2024 yes I'll move to approve the minutes of September 26 2024 as published uh dve V seconds and votes yes I vote Yes well all votes yes I vote Yes as do I okay so our first two applications are going to be uh request to withdraw starting with 1369 Main Street application 24- 081 application number 24- 081 three story on Main realy trust care of William F Ry Esquire PO Box 707 chadam Mass 02633 owner of property located at 1369 Main Street also shown in the town of chadam assessor map 10e Block 14 Lot D2 the applicant seeks to enlarge extender change a conforming dwelling and a non-conforming lot via the demolition of the existing dwelling and the construction of a new dwelling the proposed dwelling will comply with all bulk and dimensional requirements of the bylaw but is considered a substantial alteration and under the second except Clause of section six of Mass General Law chapter 4A such substantial alteration requires the grant of special permit the existing building coverage is 1,366 Ft 11% and the proposed building coverage is 1,332 squ Ft 10.8% where 15% is the maximum allowed the lot is non-conforming and that it contains 12,370 ft where 20,000 ft is required in the R20 zoning District a special permit is required under Mass General Law chapter 48 section 6 and section 5B of the protective bylaw this was continued from August 15th 24 and we we received a letter um on September 13 2024 uh this is a formal request for the withdrawal of the application for the property on 1369 Main Street without prejudice please let me know if you require anything further and this was from attorney William Riley and we do not see him here but um Paul can I have a motion yes I'll move to Grant the requested the withdrawal without prejudice Dave V second and votes yes I vote Yes all votes yes y JY votes yes as do I so that's unanimous next we have 32 cross Wind Farm another motion to withdraw by Hannah Edward and Joseph Jal limo I'll move to Grant the requested we need to oh go ahead and read it application number 24-105 Hannah art and Joseph Jolo 32 crosswind Farm Road North chatam Mass 02650 owners of property located at Zer crosswind Farm Road also shown on the town of chadam assessors map 10j block 17A lot lp36 the applicant seeks to construct a driveway under section 4 a3d of the protective bylaw the lot contains 2,815 ft in the r60 zoning District special permit is required under master General Law chapter 48 section 9 and Section 8 D2 B of the chat and protected by law I'll move to Grant the requested withdrawal without prejudice okay I'm going to readest and that came in from joseo oh sorry that the request came in in writing from Joseph Geral Lio uh dear board members I am scheduled for 2020 10242 24 zba meeting to request a variance for a proposed driveway within the Conservation District for the home we have planning to build zeroc cross Farm after attending the planning board meeting on 92324 I consulted with my engineer at BSC and we made the decision to reposition the driveway since the proposed driveway has been relocated outside of the coastal Conservancy District I would like to respectfully request that the board allow a withdrawal without prejudice as the relief originally requested is no longer required and that was received on October 10th 2024 and at this point um I see somebody Rising did you is that for this or no no okay I'll move to uh I'll move to Grant the requested relief uh withdraw without prejudice and D seconds and votes yes I vote Yes Paul votes yes Jenny votes yes as dowi it's unanimous uh next application is going to be 24-0 no 1077 276 stage Harbor Road When Sarah's ready application number 24-17 Daniel and Suzanne linan care of Paul malun 693 Main Street chatam Mass 02633 owners of property located at 276 stage Harbor Road also shown in the town of chadam assessors map 14 C block 54a lot 8A the applicant proposes to change alter or expand a non-conforming dwelling and a non-conforming lot via the construction of additions a Pergola and the Reconstruction of a deck all within the north Leo butter setback the existing dwelling is non-conforming and it is located 19.8 ft from the Norther Leo butter and 23.1 ft from the Souther Leo butter the proposed addition will be non-conforming and that it will be located 20.6 ft from the Northerly a butter the proposed perg will be non-conforming located 20.2 feet from the north liia butter and the reconstructed deck will be non-conforming located 19.8 ft from the nor Leia butter where a 25t sack back is required the existing building coverage is 2,35 ft 6.6% and the proposed building coverage is 2,156 Ft 7% where 10% is the maximum allowed the law is non-conforming and that it contains 3,691 ft where 40,000 ft is required in the R40 zoning District a special permit is required under Mass General Law chapter 4A section 6 and section 5B of the protective bylaw okay welcome Mr Paul malun I presume yes Paul moldun SV design uh here representing Daniel and Suzanne linahan in their project at 276 stage Harbor um we're requesting a special permit approval for modest changes to their their existing home uh the the lot is a panhandle lot and very well vegetated and and private on all sides there's mature vegetation on both the North and the South along with some fence lines surrounding the property um as uh Sarah mentioned we have less than required lot area and we have existing non-conforming dimensions on the northern and southern AB Butter's lines um the proposed project includes uh rebuilding an existing deck uh to create an entrance off the side uh this includes a Pergola and a small covered porch and the covered porch is approximately 93 square feet 7 feet by about 13 ft um the new Ab Butter's Dimension to the proposed pergola is 20.2 uh where we currently have 19.8 uh other uh additions to the structure were doing a covered entry at the front entrance with some brackets and we're adding some habitable space in dormers on the southern side and exp expanding a few of the dormers on both the North and southern side so here in the front elevation uh east facing elevation you can see our new covered entry with brackets and the side view of our screen porch sitting over the existing uh deck area uh the southern elevation you can see here we're adding a a dorm dmer single window Dormer to the existing Dormer to create head height for an existing stair that's that's directly underneath there and then creating a new Dormer over a bedroom space with the awning windows uh all to allow some um solar panels to be placed appropriately uh the driveway side here is maybe where the most work is happening uh to the left of the proposed uh you're seeing the screen porch and pergola stretch across the main Gable face and then in the upper section in the the center portion of the building we're expanding the Dormer uh to the right to create space for a new bathroom and then converting the garage space into habitable Space Center the uh west elevation Sor if you could switch to the West elevations not much to see there um essentially the U some changing Windows you're seeing uh the deck and and covered porch screen porch area and um a rinse station the materials used here will match the existing home uh Cedar sidewall uh uh shingles um red cedar roof line painted trim uh divided light Windows um here here these materials are seen throughout chatam and throughout the neighborhood and uh with that I'm I'm happy to um go right into the criteria please do adequacy of the site in terms of the proposed use uh the existing non-conforming lot has less than required lot area uh the zoning bylaw allows up to 10% of building coverage uh will be going increasing our coverage to 7% up from 6.6% uh the suitability of the site for the proposed use there is no change in the proposed use it is a residential home single family residential home um in a residential area uh the impact on traffic flow and safety there will be no impact on traffic flow and safety as the driveways remaining exactly where it is uh impact on uh neighborhood visual character including views and Vistas uh the lot is landlocked uh surrounded by mature vegetation and uh fencing um there's no change in the vistas or or visual impact adequacy of uh sewage disposal source of water and drainage there's no additional sewage flow proposed um and roof drainage will be contained on site adequacy of U ilities and other public services there's no upgrade to the electrical service proposed uh and um no additional water flow to be created as well um noise and litter no additional noise or litter will be created from this modest addition compatibil compatibility of the proposed use with the surrounding land uses there's no change in the current use again residential area residential home um no impact on natural environments including slopes vegetation Wetland groundwaters and uh Waters uh Waters water bodies um and the visual impact of the neighborhood I think we've established that it it'll be very consistent with the current form okay thank you very much is there anybody here in Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application if so please raise your hand seeing none I will read the one correspondence that we have from a health agent ju Judith Georgio received on 10222 24 I have reviewed the plan to renovation and add additions to this property the property is connected to Municipal sew and is impr approved for four bedrooms no additional flow is proposed I have no concerns about this proposal is there anybody here in Microsoft teams that wishes to speak against this application or has a specific question nobody in the audience and nobody on Microsoft teams that we can see questions from the board Jenny I have no questions Steve um the only question I was going to ask um because there wasn't really a lot of description about the the Dormers or the addition to the house but you sort of explained that so uh because there wasn't much information in the narrative but I appreciate that thank you surek okay no questions Paul no questions David Nixon no questions uh no questions David no questions no questions and I have no questions either Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations DV second and votes yes I vote Yes Paul votes yes yes yes okay deliberations we'll do the same thing jny um think it's a great project um it I have it meets all of our criteria certainly not substantially more detrimental and Steve I think it's also a nice project it's not that detrimental to the neighborhood and it adds a little bit of uh desired living space so it's good project yeah and Lee yeah I agree with my colleagues nothing further to add well yeah it's an unusual lot in the sense that it's pretty isolated on stage Harbor Road which you would not expect you have to go in there and go in quite a ways before you find it and it's isolated from Neighbors by planting so I don't think those will have any detrimental effect on the neighborhood I will vote in favor of it and David Ni No actually yeah would you be next you could be next thank you thank yeah this uh as I mentioned a couple of people in my years of living in town I didn't know this home existed I mean I've driven by when I oh there's a driveway where's it go so I was very pleased to get in there and see how AIT it does as far as our criteria it qualifies on all counts and Ed um meets all our criteria very modest appropriate expansion and D yeah I agree with previous and and uh and I actually thought it was going to be a lot a little further up the road a similar kind of situation and I got past that and I went well no we're not there yet so I had I had no idea this was there it's said and looking at the map there's some really pretty interesting ways the property were div is divided in that area so but no I I agree with all previous things and so that house is a quintessential by definition cape card house with the chimney in the middle I've learned that from certain experts on this board and uh I always I always like to see those they're very cool and uh all right Paul any conditions I'm not sure that I see a need for conditions here uh given the extent of the work so I'll move to approve the application as submitted dve V seconds and votes yes I vote Yes Paul votes yes Jenny votes yes that's unanimous congratulations I vote yes thank you so much appreciate your time thank you for your presentation and we're moving right along to 16 s lane application 24 108 James and Mary Sullivan that are looking for to modify a previous special permit whenever Sarah is ready application number 24-18 James and Mary Sullivan 16 Sur Lane chadam Mass 02633 owners of property located at 16 Sur Lane also shown in the town of chadam assessor map 14f block 43 lot m7a the applicant seeks to modify special permit number 24-10 granted on March 14th 2024 which allowed for the construction of additions and a conversion of a garage to habitable space the applicant now seeks to modify the special permit to allow for the demolition of the non-conforming garage and reconstruction and conversion into habitable space the existing structure and reconstru portion of the structure will remain non-conforming at 8.4 ft from the Westerly butter where a 15t setback is required the approved building coverage will remain 2,273 ft 14.5% where 15% is the maximum allowed the LW is non-conforming and that it contains 5,656 ft where 20,000 ft is required in R20 zoning District a special permit is required under Mass General Law chapter 48 section 6 and section 5B of the protective bylaw James Sullivan I presume you presume correctly hi I'm Jim Sullivan uh my wife Mary and I live at 16 Sur Lane uh we were here earlier this year and uh we received a special permit for the proposed addition or a proposed addition to our home um during the preconstruction planning we discovered that the foundation on the garage that was approved to be converted into habitable living space is not quite deep enough um to make it acceptable so we are seeking to amend that permit to demolish the garage so we can dig a deeper foundation and build rebuild the garage on the New Foundation um as I said the previous uh the permit or the special permit was granted and so this um application is to amend the permit just for the demolition of the garage and the rebuilding of it so I um would like to go through the factors if yeah if you want you could just tell us what's the difference between the the difference is right now the garage is ass salt box roof um so what we were going to do what we want to do is extend the roof up to make it symmetrical so it's going to be the same footprint it's just going to have a symmetrical Center Peak roof line that's the only difference that's the only difference um if the board agrees then we'll just we'll leave it at that okay very good very good so thank you for your presentation you outdid yourself from last time if that's possible I was going to do it again no no no you did well I remember that so um at this point we're going to ask if anybody's here are Microsoft teams that wishes speak in favor of this application if so please indicate seeing none I will read the two correspondences that we have received one is from Judith Georgio a health agent on October 22 2024 she tells us she has no issues with the change to the special permit the septic tank has been relocated to accommodate the location of the New Foundation then we have one note from Robin and Daniel De Carlo 74 Eldridge Square as neighbors and parties of Interest were in full support of James and Mary cvan permit modification for 16 s lane that was received on October 21 2 2024 at this point we will ask if there's anybody here on Microsoft teams that has a question or wishes to speak against this application seeing none questions from the board are there any are ready no okay Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations Dave V seconds and vote Yes yes yes yes and yes so uh deliberations uh Jenny well I was actually looking forward to your presentation because I too remember from last time in March um no I think it's a nice project I actually like the fact you're going a little higher on the garage side um because you know just creates even a little more balance balance yeah so um it meets all of our criteria and um I would support it oh very good Steve I think it's a nice project I'm kind of a symmetry guy myself so I'm glad to see her making it a little more symmetrical symmetrical and Lee this is in your neck of the woods Madam chair I am in a butter so I'm going to sit here quietly all right and Paul yes I'll uh I agree that it's uh certainly not more substantially detrimental to the neighborhood I think it it balances the house nicely okay and Dave Nixon I'm in agreement Ed Aon uh I'm in agreement it it's going to give you you know a little bit of head space up there make it a little bit more liable as well so I think it's a a nice change and David be yeah I agree with all previous I'm not surprised that they encountered a a two foot deep footing on the garage there I remember those days um but no I'm I'm in support all right uh Paul any conditions um I'll move to approve the application as submitted with the same conditions that we imposed on the original uh uh application uh which was all construction activity and vehicles be contained on site or in a neighboring property with the permission of the property owner that between June 30th and Labor Day no exterior construction will be allowed no work should be permitted on the weekends and construction activity between 8:00 am and 500 P PM only very good David David seconds and votes yes yes Paul votes yes Jenny votes yes and I do as well it's unanimous good luck thank you thank you and we have a similar situation on two 8 Ceda Street um an application to modify and that is the Fitz Family Trust 24-10 okay application number 24-11 0 Fitz Family Trust care of Cindy Fitz 915 Enchanted Oaks Drive Driftwood Texas 78619 owners of property located at 208 Cedar Street also shown on the town of chadam assessors map 13c block 16 Lot 1 the applicant seeks to modify special permit number 22111 granted on December 15th 2022 which allowed for the installation of a New Foundation in the construction of additions the applicant now seeks to modify the special permit to allow for the expansion of a deck and stairway the existing dwelling is non-conforming and that it is located 11.2 ft from the westeria butter the proposed deck will be non-conforming and that it will be located 12.8 ft from the westeria butter where a 25t setback is required the lot is non-conforming and that it contains 16,2 320 ft where 40,000 ft is required in the R40 zoning District a special permit is required under Mass General Law chapter 48 section 6 and section 5 Via protected bylaw Miss Cindy Fitz yes hi hi thank you so when I was here last month almost seeking a variance it was because the um original plans when they excavated with the original plans included a 4T um tall concrete Courtyard that came out of the basement and then there would have been three or four steps coming out of that and they were going to put the AC units kind of smack dab up against those concrete walls and and it wasn't going to be ideal for air flow and everything um and uh then I had a meeting with blue flax design in between submitting that request for a variance and um after they had done all the excavation to take the cess pools out uh the old cess pools out um it basically took us at walk out level for the basement um with a little bit of a null still left um on the Westerly perim um line um and when I met with Teresa from Blue fla she said we can shave that line down and just naturally hold back the land there without having to put this huge Courtyard in which made moving the air conditioning units unnecessary so as we are now looking at our beautiful house um we too like symmetry so we um thought that it would be ideal to be able to extend the deck across but not come all the way out um as far as the um original proposed deck came out um and to allow stairs to return back to the rinsing station um on that west side of the house um so that when the future grandchildren come we don't have them running in front of our house which is very close to the street um or underneath and cuz there's coyotes there so we added 17 ft on in length 8T out with a return for the stairs or we proposed to right okay do you have a copy of the criteria you want me to help you go through it you can help me go through it all right so um so this is special permit so there's probably 10 that apply um so the do you think the site is adequate um for the project yes yes and uh it's compatible with structures in the neighborhood yes yeah okay um what about the extent of the proposed increase in the non-conforming nature of the structure um it's still staying within what the original house was um which was the 11.8 ft I think or the 11.2 so we're not increasing that um and the lot is angled one way the house is angled the opposite way so um you know so it's not an issue yeah um and you think the site is suitable um in terms of the impact on the neighborhood and the natural environment including slopes vegetation Wetlands groundwater water bodies and storm water runoff yes yes it's it's right on an entire um area of The Gardener's property which is all within that 50 foot range of that um ditch which it's all woods so how about the impact of um visual character on the scale sighting and Mass on the neighborhood how do you think it's going to look I think it's going to look good to me but I don't think anybody's going to see it from from the neighborhood so it might have no visual impact it'll have no visual impact yeah um and it's compatible with the neighboring uses yes yeah um what about your sewage disposal or water drainage um any changes no no changes for that and how about impact on traffic flow and safety noise and litter I mean it will just it'll improve the traffic flow of the people who will be on the property and you have adequate utilities and public services for all of this all right very good um is there anybody here on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application please let us know seeing none um I will read the correspondence let see we have three first one is from the Conservation Commission um received on um October 2 2024 um they tell us that the project was issued in order of conditions for February 23rd on February 23rd 2023 a plan change on October 1 2024 for the removal of the the sunken patio and retaining walls at the northeast corner of the dwelling from the project the project revised meets the performance standards under all the applicable rules next we have a note from Christina Basset from the um chadam historical commission and she writes to us on October 1st 2024 that it looks like there's no loss of historic materials therefore an application is not required next we have a note from a health agent who has no concerns regarding the proposed amendment to the special permit received on October 22 2024 is there anybody here on Microsoft teams that wish to speak against this application or has a question seeing none questions from the board I'll give it a I have no questions all right uh no questions no questions well no questions no questions no questions no questions and no questions here Paul I'll move to close the hearing and move into deliberations Dave seconds and vote Yes yes I'll vote Yes yes and yes so um deliberations Dave uh well this is one of those where if it had been presented this way uh as part of the initial application I would have been fine with it and um and I don't see and it's that it's in any way substantially more detrimental than neighborhood it meets our criteria um it makes some sense uh from their perspective and U so I'll I'll support it right Ed um yeah if I was Voting today I would support it um I actually applaud you applaud you for your efforts to to maintain this building and uh bring it up to code when I I walked through it uh and there's not much left of the old structure not but uh it it it it certainly looks still looks very historic and we keep we kept it looking the same yeah Dave Nixon yeah I'm very pleased that um you found a way to do this through special permit as opposed to a variance that would have been very difficult so uh I have no reason not to support it thank you and Paul I agree with my colleagues Le I agree with my colleagues as well um the deck expansion is definitely not substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood and Steve I think it's a nice project makes a lot of sense uh to be able to exit the rear of the house and get onto the side yard and it doesn't protrude past the the the existing uh side of the house so you really can't see it from the road so I think it's a good project good luck thank you thank you and I agree with my colleagues um especially appreciate your approach to uh restoring the 1860 historic home important neighborhood I agree with the comment you made and that it's a beautiful home and um that you have the most beautiful tree in the back so expanding that deck makes a lot of sense and you have um you know this amazing tree and now an even better view of that so um it's the very reason why my husband is choosing to move into this house is that tree the tree it's the tree because he wants to be able to sit on on the deck and just be in tre yeah it's just beautiful so anyway I uh it meets all of our crer and i would support it thank you any conditions um I think we should impose the same conditions that we had on the original application which would be all construction activity and vehicles will be contained on site or at a neighboring property with a permission of the property owner uh that between June 30th and Labor Day no exterior construction will be allowed no work should be permitted on weekends at construction activity between 8: a.m. and 5 p.m. only Dave V seconds and votes yes I vote Yes all vote Yes I vote Yes as as do I it's unanimous um thank you very much thank you very much good luck y yeah and last but not least time consuming anyway um we have 1610 Main Street uh William Riley represents Oyster River Boatyard whenever Sarah is ready application number 24-19 BK Enterprises Inc DBA Oyster River Boatyard car William F R Esquire PE box 707 chattam Mass 02633 let's see of property at 16 located at 1610 Main Street also shown in the town of chadam assessor map 9e block 2 Lot 1 and map 9e block 2 Lot 2 the applicant proposes to establish and operate a marina Boatyard the property contains 58390e in an SB zoning District a special permit is required under Section 3 c3c and Section 8 d2b of the protective bylaw Mr Riley attorney Riley welcome good afternoon Bill Riley on behalf of PK Enterprises this the burner family this is Cliff burner uh standing next to me his father dick brers in the back so U this is a situation where uh the applicant is looking to uh improve the yearound viability and economic success of their business and the they uh needed additional storage space in the winter to P customers boats the uh um so the the applicants operate a full service marine and Boatyard down on uh the Oyster River they've been there for many years Cliff has been there for 22 he's the Young Buck the uh and so what they understand is that uh for a board to be an economic success in addition to having a waterfront ability to pump Gast and service boats at the water during the summer season uh there are many customers of theirs uh that want to leave their boats locally so they can be serviced here and it's the uh so during the Boating season you know the the boat yard is busy taking care of the boats that are on the water and if I don't know who's got a boat here but I can tell you that generates plenty of its own work having you know an electronic and mechanical device and a salt water environment there are always issues that come up uh but course the boarding season here in chadam is short end of May to end of October basically and so the way the boat yards uh keep their customers and keep them happy and support themselves and the year on staff is to have boat storage so that the customers boats uh can be kept locally brought back to the boat yard during the winter season for work sophisticated work it also provides work for their staff you know putting the boats up for the winter in the in the fall uh and then in the spring where they shrink rack them in the fall you know they clean them up they uh in the in the spring they B paint the bottom they buff up the boats uh and take this rink wrap off uh some of the boats uh will be for sale and so it's convenient for the have the boats there so the boat yach staff can go up and assist potential buyers so the the uh the building commissioner's letter which you'll see later on implies that uh storage is just ancillary to a Boatyard but it's really an essential component of the Boatyard if they can't store the boat they don't get to work on the boats if they don't get to work on the boats they don't make the money they need to sustain their business and their employment base so I'd like to introduce Cliff burner uh to run through an explanation how he how he sees the boat operation and the necessity for having a place to put boats close by Cliff thank you Mr Riley uh Cliff burner I'm the operational manager of Oyster River Boatyard been doing this full-time now for the past 22 years um pleased to report report that with good service and the popularity of boating in chattam we've grown and we need more space in which to operate uh we currently handle over 250 boats each season on under one acre of waterfront property to get 250 boats in the water each spring and out each fall we must be as efficient as possible and we strive to get as much prep work done early to minimize the time each boat spends at our small Waterfront yard the property at 1610 Main Street will be used for the maintenance of boat in addition to storage some boats will be wrapped at this site in the fall boats will be bottom painted at this site in the spring um the boats will get uncovered at the site um some boats may even get their hulls hand waxed and Polished if the customer so alexo on that site uh once uncovered at 1610 before the boats are transported off that location boats will undergo a multi-point inspection to identify issues in the service work needed prior to those boats being brought to the Waterfront yard for final prep if things are light and easy we'll do the repairs right up there and this process will enable us to have the parts on hand and a good outline of work needed to work efficiently for when the boat actually makes it to our small Waterfront yard so basically we're going to try to get as much done offsite in our storage Lots as we can because we've got such a small waterfront property um the property at 1610 will also be used as a drop off and pickup site for our customers just the other day myself and my yard foreman hauled four boats at the waterfront yard in the morning and before we had them staged and set up a customer customer came down the narrow one Lan road with his 23ft boat and toe to drop it off that basically created gridlock for about 30 minutes until we got everything situated so to handle as many boats as we do now we need to really control 100% the timing and flow of our boats in and out of our small little Waterfront yard and the property being right there along Route 28 and such an easy location is much more convenient for our customers to drop off and pick up boats many of our customers sometimes only tow a boat two times a year they've got little experience backing up a trailer and they're trying to drive through a narrow residential neighborhood on oneway roads it does not bode well um this property is much more suited for this um as Bill mentioned boat sales are also an integral component of our business and the property at 1610 provides a lot of visibility um you know we'll have several new boats from the lines we sell Cobia Stager Craft on display as well as some select used brokerage boats and we'll use that site for boat showings and sales activities um with such a small yard and a fleet of five trucks and seven yard trailers we can't keep all this equipment on site daily and have enough space to get our work done so we will probably stage some of this equipment at 1610 during the season and then at a moment's notice we can just quickly go up and grab a truck or grab a trailer and come on down to work at the next boat um as was mentioned you know an integral part of Boatyard is Storage storage of boats during the winter and storage of empty Boat Trailers in the summer um so yes there will be seasonal boat storage at this site at 1610 um most of our customers don't want their boats stored in their own yards and many subdivisions in town have covenants preventing storage so the need to have centralized boat storage here in town is critical uh many boats that are stored by us are rotated through our inside heated shops each winter for more extensive repairs and service such as fiberglass work new electronics rewers this all allows us to be more efficient come spring as we only have two short months to get 250 boats in the water and having the boats under our storage umbrella allows us this flexib ability to control the work to be most efficient and keep a good yearound staff employed um we've been working on boats here since 1952 72 years orbe has been in business um as I mentioned I've been running the yard the last 22 years and I hope to continue for many more we provide a good tax base to the town and the state of Massachusetts and we try to hire as many local employees as possible with openings for two positions right now so if anyone's interested come see me after the meeting we've been met with many challenges over the years and running this business is not always easy and I'd like to ask for your support in approving this site for our use to help us carry on thank you Cliff the uh so I'll just run through the criteria adequacy of the size of the site in terms of the size of the proposed use well because we don't have a building uh the size of the site is essentially self-limiting there'll be uh parking boats around the perimeter the center of the lot has to be maintained open so that the trucks and trailers and cars and trailers uh can maneuver uh compatibility the size of the proposed structure well there is no structure so I don't think the question is applicable the uh extended proposed increase and non forming nature here uh this is a use permitted in its Zone with the issuance of a special permit by you so it's uh there is no nonconformity here the suitability of the site including but not limited to impact on neighboring properties on the natural environment including slopes vegetation Wetlands groundwater water bodies and storm water runoff here there be no change in the existing site the property has been uh leveled cleared and uh had material put down suitable to support Motor Vehicles because the the owner of the property has previously allowed contractors working for the state in the town uh to use the space u as parking for their work Vehicles so there's no change anticipated there impact of scale sighting a mass on the neighborhood visual character uh here there's no building I think the the only possible concern you might have regarding streetcape is whether or not it would be appropriate to have some sort of screening uh vegetative screening or offence and we're happy to consider that we we don't think it's necessary uh I mean boat yards there's a reason why boat yards are permitted all over town and boat you know so that this is a boating community there are over 2,000 Moorings uh issued by uh the town of chadam Harbor Master those boats all need to be serviced and stored and taken care of and this is an opportunity for an otherwise vacant lot uh to be used in a manner that's productive both for the company and for the owner of the property compa ability of the use with the neighboring uses well West chadam is sort of a hodge podge right now uh the there are two properties which are owned by the town of chattam that are parks across the street you've got shaah Hoy Plaza that makes the Boatyard kind of appropriate shipo shoy okay maybe not the U you've got the restaurant you've got you know the appen high Medical Center so here there's no building it's just going to be a series of boats parked around the perimeter of the lot uh there'll be some traffic as Cliff has indicated occasional traffic uh where staff comes to service boats or to assist the potential buyer of a boat so I think the the uh uh you know it's a commercial Zone this is a commercial use so I think to that extent it's compatible one thing you can say about it is there'll be far less uh motor vehicle traffic associated with this use there than there is with Larry PX across the street uh or any of the other uses Dunkin Donuts and we have a lot more vehicular traffic than we will the uh method of sewage disposal and source of water there is no water or util electrical use on the property uh impacting traffic FL safety there will be some uh traffic associated with the use uh I think that it's not it won't be a constant flow like it is across the street at shaah Hoy but you know in the spring there will be you know truck traffic bringing the BRS up there to put them in place for storage in in the spring bringing them out uh we don't believe there'll be any litter on the satec site because the O River board doesn't allow litter on their sites but uh there will be an occasional use of a portable generator you know like those small Honda generators are very quiet uh but they'll provide the electric power uh that the Boatyard needs on the rare occasion when they need it that'll be our presentation thank you is there anybody here on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak in favor of this application if so please indicate seeing no one in favor I will now read the correspondences there are four uh first one is from uh Annie Hayes that and she represents the planning board and she tells us on October 21 2024 that the planning board has not received an application for this property to date next we have a note from Jay Briggs our Building Commissioner who is here on that this was written on October 15 2024 subject 1610 Main Street application number 24109 dear zba members I have reviewed the zba application for the above referenced address including all submitt documents the application was filed under Section 3 C3 C and 8 d2b section 3 C3 and it lists the uses allowed for the small business district which this property was previously zoned before changing to residential 20 zoning District at town meeting May 9th 2016 the site has special business I mean small business and flexible development overlay protection through May 23rd 2025 Section 3 c3c list uses requiring a special permit and item number five is in the list Marina Boatyard both words are defined by the bylaw as follows 16 Boatyard means a commercial facility whose primary function is for the construction repair and maintenance of boats and may include Provisions for boat storage and docking 70 Marina means a facility providing for storing servicing fueling birthing and securing of ten or more boats and Marine Supplies although boat storage is a component of the use of a Boatyard or Marina it is not the primary use but clearly an ancillary use as the terms are defined the use the applicant is describing would fall under the use wholesale business or storage which is only allowed by right in the industrial district and by special permit in the GB District next we have a note from the Conservation Commission um and they tell us on October 2 2024 the applicant has not submitted an application regarding this project to the commission additional information on a site plan with the wetlands delineated is needed to determine if the project will need to meet the performance standards under the wetlands protection act and the town local Wetland bylaw regulations prated there under next we have a note from Ted and Pat Burke of 56 geranium Drive they write to us on our October 21 2024 and this originally went to the town um manager's assistant uh and then it was brought to us um and she tells us miss burck tells us that they were hoping that we we would pass that they were hoping that they would pass us along to zoning as I didn't have their contact we would like to express our objection to allowing 1610 to become a boat yard we believe this will be extremely out of place and this is not what the property was intended to be this property is located in the middle of West chadam Center please do not put shrink WRA boats on the 16 tent property it will most certainly create an unsightly distraction and Interruption of the West chadam business district is there anybody here on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak against this application or has a specific question and I see a gentleman with a striped shirt please uh approach the microphone if you would and change those gentlemen will gentlemen will step aside and allow you to state your name and tell us your question or your objection and or both um good afternoon uh my name is Warren chain and um for the record I am a member of the town planning board but I'm here solely as a town resident uh the current application is not come before the planning board which therefore has no comment on it at this time um I begin by saying at 1610 Main Street is in the heart of the West chadam neighborhood center and the proposed boat yard is not compatible with the town's visioned uh for the future of this neighborhood center to Grant a special permit Section 8 C4 of the towns protected by requires a finding that the use involved will not be detrimental uh to the established or the Future character of the neighborhood because it would be extremely detrimental to the Future character of the West chatam Neighborhood Center as envisioned in the town's comprehensive plan adopted 13 May 2003 I ask that the board deny the special permit Section 1 a 11a of the comprehensive plan recognizes neighborhood centers and states that to reach its goals the town's policy is to amend the zoning bylaws to create specific criteria unique to each Neighborhood Center it further states that a limit on Commercial density and intensity should be set for the neighborhood centers the comprehensive plan's vision for the neighborhood centers includes higher density multifam mixed use market rate and uh affordable and attainable housing um and limits on yearr round residency in order to promote and increase the availability of more affordable housing in the town this was done essentially as a quid po quo for rezoning the remainder of Route 28 in chadam outside of the neighborhood centers uh to R20 zoning residential while not yet presented to town meeting for adoption the planning board's 24 February draft warrant article proposing Zoning for the West chadam neighborhood center it's posted on the town's website and really at the direction of the select board the draft zoning has been in development for over three years since I've been on the planning board um and in furtherance of the comprehensive plan at the direction of the select board the planning board has been working on drafting what the Future Vision as envisioned in the comprehensive plan ought to be um embodied in Zoning for that West chadam Neighborhood Center importantly the use table proposed for the West chatam Neighborhood Center prohibits the use proposed in the current application you know it's clear that the desired Future character the Future character of the neighborhood center has been endorsed by the select board and approved by the town voters uh as embodied in the comprehensive plan for the town which created the neighborhood center you know given the documented vision for the Future character of the neighborhood center not only only do the preceding documents not support a finding that the application will not be detrimental to the Future character of the neighborhood center it warrants a finding that granting a special permit would be extremely detrimental to the role of the neighborhood center envisioned in the comprehensive plan just to let you know Mr chain we have um a five minute limit and that's true you have another minute and a half that's more than enough thank you the applicant's proposed you use belongs in Commerce Park or similar location but not in the heart of the West chadam Neighborhood Center whether it's permanent temporary or whatever it's totally against the spirit and the expressed desires of the comprehensive plan and the direction of the select board in drafting proposed but Zoning for that area so again I respectfully uh request that the board consider uh rejecting the request for the special permit thank you thank you very much is there anybody else here that wishes to speak against this application or has a question and there has hand raised I was going to go to online I just wanted to see if there's anybody here who made their way here but no and online is there anybody on Microsoft teams that wishes to speak against or has a question please don't be shy okay seeing none yeah Madam chair yes sir if I could just uh have a moment of rebuttal that was going to be my next utterance but thank you beat me to it so the uh so our application you know was for Marina board and uh uh Jay in his letter to you uh presumed that this was just about storage I hope our earlier presentation made it clear that it's not not just about storage it's about having a Boatyard there and I know uh Mr Shane does a lot of work on the planning board but you know the last time the town did anything on zoning in this area they changed his side to R20 residential which is exact opposite of what theoretical plan is for having a a Village Center but you know the this is a a loow impact use um there are many places on Cape Cod none in chadam I will acknowledge where boats are stored or boat yards have storage uh it's not you know attractive but it's not unattractive I mean it's it's people working it's what it is I mean this is something that's important you know to the economic life of this boat yard you know every year the boats get bigger and more expensive and require more work and so they require more area in which to store them where they can keep them close so they can bring them back and forth to work on them so they can work so they can send their workers there to do some work up there as well and so I just disagree very strongly with Jay's suggestion that it's somehow just ancillary the uh the boats that are stored there are customers of the Boatyard and as's a Boatyard customer myself in another Boatyard I can tell you that you know having having your boat stored there means they're going to do the work which of course I'm happy to have them do the work uh but it really is important economically uh both for the boaty yard and the town so they have yearr round positions wellp paid positions for technicians and people who are capable of working with fiberglass and doing sophisticated work work on boats and so uh I hope you'll agree with me that this is not like a wholesale storage facility this an integral part of the operation of a Boatyard and we hope you'll uh Grant a special permit thank you yeah okay thank you um questions from the what yeah oh yes um this is part of the rebuttal yes you know just a couple couple quick comments you know chadam is a boating community we're a Seaside Community boating is an integral part of this town um you guys even call on the web your Weekly Newsletter the main sheet you know that's the main sale of a sailboat you know this town is founded on boats you know I just hope that you know the town will support those that actually work on these boats that draws everybody to town and you know people want to have boats they need to have them serviced and yes this is not just a wholesale storage yard where we're just dropping them setting them and forgetting them it's you know an allowable Marina Boatyard use because there is going to be work performed on site at that site it is not just a wholesale storage yard we we can't just have wholesale storage yards we can't afford leases and payments and mortgages on such and our waterfront property is too small to support all the work we do so we do quite a bit of work offsite at all of our storage yards whether or not they'd be in Commerce Park or elsewhere thank you okay thank you so we're going to now take questions from the board and Dav questions oh well um Bill uh this this lot is grandfather in SSB uh it that's from and that expires in May or something like that I know but once we establish a use it continues on I see but it if if they if a use allowed but this particular use which is I so I'm I'm confused maybe I'm not sure who to ask this question of but probably Jay um your um um letter and your initial the sheet we got cover sheet with our application uh indicated that this um that this matter is not properly before us today can you um just walk me through that thanks well when we received the application we didn't have a a plan of the layout but I did have a follow-up conversation with Mr Riley and the predominant use of the site was going to be for storage of boats so you know I'm looking at the bylaw and I'm looking at the definitions of Bard and Marina because I'm weird like that and I want you know semantics or whatever it's very specific and I'm trying to follow the intent of the definition of these terms so yeah if you go with Boatyard they're saying that the it's a commercial facility whose primary function is for construction repair and maintenance of boats and that wasn't expressed to me when the application was submitted M yeah um and may include Provisions for boat storage and docking okay there's no docking occurring there but no not there if those other items were to occur construction repair maintenance then storage could also be allowed mhm but that's not how it was presented to me when we first received the application we got the plan um a few weeks later and so now the only thing about the plan is and I don't know if you can put the plan back up Sarah um it's unclear to me if they're going to be storing trucks or anything other than the boats on site as well mhm okay um so I mean I guess I'm wondering I was wondering whether this not probably be for was was because it sounds to me like they're they're um disagreeing with an interpretation you've made and they haven't brought this to us as a um questioning your interpretation is it can I add something to that yeah go ahead so this is really before us um sort of to save time when you think about it because if it was just an application to rebut or to go against the the building commission's decision then you would still have to come back anyway so this is the way it was explained to me by people that are a lot more intelligent about this and so now we're here for the package board members can believe it's not even before us um appropriately and if they believe that they can just vote no and if they believe that it it is but they still still don't think it meets the criteria and then they could vote no or they could vote Yes on either one of those right does that sound okay with you Mr Riley absolutely very good you thank Sarah for that and uh so and I thank Sarah for a lot of things all the time okay and so then I guess for clarification um bill um would is this a matter that you've chosen to bring to us before going to the planning board or Conservation Commission uh oh we we won't be going to the Conservation Commission because the um the our engineer Dave Clark has told us we're outside the jurisdiction of the Conservation Commission uh assuming we get a special permit then we'll go to uh the planning board uh again we don't anticipate making any changes uh but we'll be in discussion with the planning board I I ju I mean just to comment a comment a bit on this uh given the some of the questions before us I would be reluctant to go ahead with this without input from the planning board honestly because of the cut in the curb no not not just a curb cut but you know I think the the I mean I have questions I Mayan I have questions so it's currently zoned it was it's it's it's grandfather under SB zoning that zoning was changed to R20 I am aware of proposals that the planning board has put out there about changes that they're going to be seeking in the in the um Neighborhood Center Village Center of West chadam and I believe I'm going on my memory which is not the best but I believe one of the the one of those proposals is to switch that zoning back in that location to uh General business or something along those lines now Mr chain has indicated that that that Marina boatyards won't be in the list of approved uh of uses in that new so this is something that I mean we're right in the middle and and I think he appropriately mentions the future right things so given all of that I would be very reluctant to act without at least planning board in put for us thanks and I think that's covers my questions good question so where's the planning board on this second question uh come from Ed a any question question so where where do you store all your boats now uh we store predominately most of them in Commerce Park okay and where I own two parcels and we lease several others okay and um are you planning any improvements to the to this side s at all um the only Improvement that I would think um if boat sales really took off on site would be to put up like a small little sales shed you know like a 10 x 15 or 10 x 16 shed just to support you know that function of the business I I guess my question comes too so when you're handling boats now and you're uh you take them out of the water you power wash them you sand them uh you put them away for the winter isn't there like requirements special requirements for like drainage and things how do you how do you handle you know all of that um material that's coming off the bottom of the boats yeah I won't be power washing at 1610 Main Street there's special provisions on how that process has to be handled so we will handle that appropriately at the waterfront location okay but you're asking to do maintenance on this property or the argument is it's not just the storage area we want to do maintenance here yeah we'll do environmentally friendly boat maintenance on there you know we can shrink wrap that creates no environmental concerns we can take the wrap off boats up there we can do prebo inspections we can do bottom painting by putting a tarp down on on the ground and bottom we use a water-based bottom paint so it's very environmentally friendly there's no odors um you know we can do hand compounding and waxing of boats and if we need a power tool we could hook up a little generator just for like a little buffer all those activities are are just fine on that on that site okay and um any uh no proposed screening or or or anything of that nature there's already some trees planted along the sidewalk um but if if there needed to be more we could we could screen additionally but you know I hate to see the town of them hide a boat you know this town is founded on boats and now you want to hide boats I just question the logic on that is there something really bad about a boat oh but to answer the question if the board felt that it was important to do screening whether vegetation or offense we'd be happy to do it yeah I mean U Mr Marsh is doeses extensive screening for his single family homes I mean uh I would think this site would SC for screening uh yeah boats are beautiful I own a boat but I don't consider my boat beautiful when it's covered in in shrink wrap um I guess that's that's all my questions okay Dave Nixon questions thank you madam chair uh first Mr chain may I ask you a question pleas sir if you if you could go to the microphone Mr chain um that's how we roll no it's chain not chainy we I said chain I said chain you got to check your hearing it well I've got my hearing aids in uh yes now this is sort of a leading question if you don't want to answer it please say I can't I won't but do you have any reason to believe that your board any members of your board would feel differently about this whole thing than you do because uh I thought you were very articulate and explaining from what has happened with the West chattam plans that you've all gone through so I uh while I hear uh Mr V saying would' be nice to hear from the planning board but I I can't honestly see any reason why we'd get different feelings and answers than you gave us um and I know I don't want you speak for others I'm just you speaking from your heart no well I have two comments one would be that um I have no reason to believe that any member of the board would feel terribly differently than I about the Future Vision for the character of the West chatam Neighborhood Center thank you or any of the neighborhood centers but I will also temper that by saying there are several new members fairly new members to the planning board who have not been through three years of um uh urging by the select board um to get on with it um to develop the planning um uh the bylaw for developing the centers into what are focused on being multi-use multif family higher density housing to help with the housing um problem that the town has recognized and embodied in the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan so I have a much longer history and therefore if had it perhaps burned into my soul a little bit more than perhaps the newer members of the board and I certainly wouldn't want to speak to them no and have no reason uh to believe that anyone would object to um what I have said here and that is that if you are creating a neighborhood center with all that might mean um apart from the comprehensive plan per se but just the concept the name itself suggests that putting a large Boatyard right in the middle of where of perhaps the most desirable um and most developable piece of real estate right in the middle of the neighborhood center um can't possibly be consistent with the uh the maintaining the Future character of the neighborhood center as envisioned in the comprehensive plan um but again I don't have any reason to believe that anybody would object to uh my feelings on that but I do have new members of the board and I certainly don't want thank you very much and I would simply say that new members of the board would be vetted by the select board before they're appointed and certainly this would have been you know a typical comment that or a question that would come up hey how do you feel about do you understand what's going anyway gentlemen uh let's talk about uh the storage of boats at this lot uh most boat yards I go by um which are few and far between have racks and so you have one level of boat two level of boat three level of boat we're not asking for Rex wouldn't you like some no no no we can't store a lot more boats if you had racks I know but the Oyster River Boatyard doesn't use racks for their storage they have as Cliff indicated they have several other Lots around town Commerce Park and other places where they have boats that they put there for the winter uh and none of those lots have racks so you know I may not be very smart but I know enough not to poke somebody in the eye by suggesting that we should have a rack there so yeah but you love our rack but that's okay I I can make a comment to speak intelligently to that thank to Mr I like that the other boatyards in town that have racks or I could say you know I could use like Ryder's Cove Boatyard I could use outermost Harbor Marine stage Harbor Marine chadam Yacht Basin all of those boatyards have a very unique feature at their Waterfront it's called a bulkhead so they have a forklift that they haul and launch boats with at their bulkhead a quar million doll forklift that goes up and down and raises boats out of the water with their bulkhead moves them around their yard and can then set them up into racks our Waterfront location is not fortunate enough to have a bulkhead we have an old school launching ramp so we Haul and launch boats on hydraulic trailers and roller trailers and customer trailers um we would not be permitted for racks at our Waterfront facility so there's no point in putting racks elsewhere thank you for the answer okay uh so let's go on part of your argument is that you're going to provide jobs for folks and all that but yet it seems to me that you have these other Lots currently Commerce Park and others that uh so are you telling us that the folks who work there now would lose their jobs if they didn't have this to go to we've grown we've expanded we've added significantly to to our customer basee and boat base so I'm as you heard I'm looking to hire even more people to work on the more boats that we have mhm but currently you handle what you have with what you have in Commerce Park is that correct I'm running short staffed at the moment I know but if you have the staff okay so it's just you your argument about you know this is providing jobs and all that is a little weak to me if you're looking for people now with what you have okay so um David you do you mind if I finish y we're going to answer questions that are asked thank you so you made the comment about uh the traffic problems you gave an example of someone coming down that one lane road who was driving a trailer or whatever they had and it took your thority minut to straighten it out just what do you think is going to happen on Route 28 in front of 1610 if you have and your by your own admission gentlemen ladies driving trailers that they're not used to doing they don't know how to back them up they're going to be parking them up on 28 aren't they and coming in saying is anybody in here help me out can I is there space in here well wait a minute don't you leave it out there now you've got 50 cars biked up I mean that argument of not causing a traffic problem it just doesn't wash with me 1610 is going to be a very open lot in the middle there is going to be ample space to easily pull in there uh do a just a 360 turn no backing up needed disconnect the trailer it's going to be really simple okay um that's all the questions I have at this time thank you okay thank you questions Jenny um yeah is is when I see the field card I see that this property is not owned by you it's owned by Eastward homes so you be leasing this property correct um would this be replacing any of your existing leases or like the ones at Commerce Park that you mentioned or in addition to because your business is growing is that what I heard add in addition to I I may replace one small least property but I'll have to see how things shake out but okay um how many boats I know this isn't probably done to scale but how many boats are we talking about with the ability to have all that maneuvering space that you're I Envision 40 to 60 boats around the perimeter and no stacking no rack stack because because you can't um do that without this like you said the forklift and the bulkhead um and so so because of this ample space that you have um you don't foresee a problem being the proximity so close to the roundabout absolutely not you know I was honestly a huge opponent of the roundabouts in theory when they were proposed but they have been absolutely nothing but a Saving Grace for us pulling out at Dunkin Donuts to take a left to head towards Commerce Park or head towards 1610 is so much easier with the roundabouts the roundabouts are engineered in such a way that we can easily get around them with all of our trucks and trailers and to be honest with you the biggest boat that one of my customers really hauls on their own is going to be 24 25 ft tops the bigger boats we all haul ourselves most of the drop offs are small boats in nature 13 ft to like 24 well that was actually a question I had size of the boats because um it is a tight roundabout so I agree it helps with the traffic flow the roundabout but I was concerned about a truck and the trailer with a big boat um no with ease yeah they're they're welld designed okay both those intersections are much safer for us to navigate than they ever were in the past with the two roundabouts okay can we go back to the temporary ownership then so this lease that you're talking about is um constructed in a way that is uh ended by you or Andor by the lease or at anytime I mean well the initial term of the lease is going to be a two-year lease uhhuh with uh a right to renew um but you know that's up for renegotiation at the end of two years uh I hope to be able to renew that okay um and then so I'm a little unclear Mr Riley maybe to Dave E's initial question um is did you say or did someone say that the grandfathering um the expiration that made 2025 grandfathering if this so in other words if our decision how what is the longevity of our decision tonight based on the fact that there's this grandfathering provision in May of 2025 and the fact that this is a leasi Lor arrangement well I think uses that are established so so in the uh subdivision control law there's a provision that if a zoning bylaw change is proposed and uh prior to its adoption at the town meeting a subdivision of the property is uh submitted to the planning board and ultimately approved by the planning board the property is uh protected for up to eight years to establish a use previously allowed on the property once a use is established there it is uh a permitted use and is allowed to remain okay so then that goes to Mr Brigg's comments of the of the summary at the beginning about it being a Boatyard and being a marina I'm sorry what it it the a use the established use I mean I'm struggling frankly with the criteria of suitability of use because of the letter that was written in to us about Boatyard and Marina so I I'm still a little confused about this the whole um zoning part of it frankly but um okay I think um okay I think that's all I have right now well I mean I can run through the zoning aspect for you if you'd like well we talked about at the beginning um well I mean it's right now it's a use that's permitted with a special permit once it's established it would be allowed to continue indefinitely it would be permitted use an allowed use it would become non-conforming you know because with all due respect to the planning board if they were so busy so concerned about having multif family housing there why they change the zoning to R20 but be that as it may the the uh uh so the zoning is is clear it's a permitted use with a special permit for on this particular piece of property if a use is not established by May of 2025 is going to revert to R20 okay and and I just add so that use would be either a boat yard or a marina because both of them are permitted under special permit if we find that first of all that it meets the definition and second of all if we if we do find it meets the definition then we find that it's not detrimental what not okay is is that helpful at all and is it Boatyard and Marina or Boatyard or Marina or or okay because because 16 is the definition of boat yard because it begins with a B so it's a Le it's a a lower number and then you have to go to 70 for Marina which is an M okay oh I so we're going to the definitions the definitions become quite important in this in this on this board so I know and I agree and I think you know the only uh you know thing that my initial conversation with Jay I didn't understand what his concerns were and I didn't understand fully what the applicant was going to be doing there right we talked about it is this your work this piece of paper with that's mine oh I wasn't sure if it was uh if it was from a professional but okay so actually it was a professional buddy we fired him just dve Clark in the corner here so maybe my my final question is actually to Jay and and this was at the beginning so I don't have the wording exactly the way you said it but um it sounded to me like maybe there was a clearly not a marina but that there was a maybe in the Boatyard because of the primary function the way you understood it initially was that the primary function was going to be for construction repair maintenance of boats um where tonight what we've heard is that the primary function is stor I was under the impression that the primary function was storage from the beginning from when we received the application so is anything so the if they're looking to have a Boatyard the definition of Boatyard says it's a commercial facility whose primary function is for the construction repair and maintenance of boats and may include Provisions for boat storage you know so whether they can whether their operation falls under that definition that's up for the board to determine I would say okay thank you Steve dor questions we're only on questions I may have a couple um I guess first of all when if if this got approved when did you expect to start using this property well as soon as we get the permits okay um I know you said early on that um you didn't feel that you had to go to the Conservation Commission but how are you going to address some of the um environmental concerns of doing maintenance on to boats um you you you said you used the water-based boat Prime uh boat um bottom paint um but there's still environmental issues in using that paint and controlling run off you know is there going to be a blue line of of bottom paint running down the side of of Route 28 when you're when you're cleaning some of these boats uh we are not power washing on site that's going to be be done per the EPA guidelines at our Waterfront location applying bottom paint is a very passive act with no environmental concerns it's you know you put it on with a brush and a roller you have a little drop cloth and there's absolutely no environmental issues with applying paint okay but you do have to sand it off occasionally no we don't sand we use a uh a blade of paint it doesn't build up over time it wears off in the water with use and refreshes itself mhm so no longer are you getting huge buildups of you know 20 30 coats and if we ever had a boat that had a huge buildup we would take that off site and have it soda blasted professionally and how about flushing boats in the fall before you shrink wrap them um flushing out the motors flushing out the uh the hull of the boat that intensely environmental impactful work will be continued to be done at our Waterfront location where we have measures in place to ensure that that's done okay in a safe environmentally friendly manner okay and what what kind of Maintenance you talk about maintenance to trailers what can you describe what you might be doing um inspecting them we we have to go through a thorough trailer inspection on our customers trailers before we put boats on them so we will you know take tire pressure visual inspection of the tires to see if they're dry rotted if they are we will um you know jack up the trailer replace a tire and wheel it's easy it's like four bolts five bolts um you know you can jack up one side of a trailer spin the wheel make sure the bearings don't sound bad um you know visual inspection of the trailer winch make sure the cable or strap is in good condition to haul the boat okay and and and I think you said that you know the only there's not going to be any shore power going to this site you might use a Honda generator but you going to run air compressors and possibly even welders to fix a trailer with a Honda generator no if the repairs and maintenance will be very light in nature up there if they're more in-depth repairs they will come to the Waterfront location or a A specialized welding shop we don't we don't weld on site even at our Waterfront location if the trailer is in that much of a disrepair I will take it to a professional welder okay and what and what are you going to do with the debris from the you know the worn out tires and the piles the giant piles in the spring of the remove the shrink wrap how do you intend to handle that when we uncover the boat at 1610 uh the shrink wrap immediately goes in the bed of the pickup truck and it will come down to the Waterfront location at the time that we take the boat in tow down there um we contract um with the service and we have a 40 yard dumpster set at our Waterfront location in for three months in the spring where we compile all the shrink wrap and it gets recycled every year okay and is there going to be any staffing on site to help people who might be bringing their boats or that might want to pull their boat out is there going to be anybody there sort of directing uh you know traffic cop in the parking lot yes so right now being our Waterfront location people just tell us the day they're going to come down they never tell us the time and it creates all these grid locks we really need to have the flow so I'm going to make it clear I will have a diagram how they can pull in and whatnot but I will also make it the opportunity available hey you let me know when you're going to be up there call me when you're 5 minutes out we're literally 2 and 1 half minute drive to 1610 and I'm happy to send somebody up there to assist with with meeting a customer in fact we like to meet our customers at drop off because it's like dropping off your car for service you know you have a chat with your service advisor you go through what's needed we go through what suggested for service and stuff it's very beneficial for us to meet with our customers in the spring and in the fall to go over their desired needs and what we suggest for the upcoming season okay but there won't be somebody there full-time on a regular basis but they're readily available to assist whenever needed okay okay thank you Lee heavy questions um yes I actually had a question about the lease as well but I think you pretty much cleared that up shortterm lease two-year lease hopefully renewable um but I also had a question about the Lots is it it it's two lots yes you will not be using the second lot necessarily we W we'll be using you know probably a portion of the front of that lot a portion of the front of the lot which will need to be cleared maybe no we're not going to do any clearing okay no clearing okay so it's just this lot that I see here not the one that goes down to burus Pond no it's not the Panhandle lot it's just the forward lot okay the forward L but we're using part of the the Panhandle okay this part okay all right okay thank you and Paul simple questions um well overall I think I agree with with uh Dave V that in order to really deal with this in an intelligent manner we probably need to hear from the planning board first um but I don't want to give you the impression that we're against the boatyards or that we're against boatyards in general because I know you probably feel as if you're getting a lot of negative comments here and it isn't so much that we have a negative Viewpoint towards this but we're just trying to get facts that we think are important that will be necessary to then apply to our criteria um the the overall concept uh within the framework of the West chadam Village concept is part of our criteria in effect because we're dealing with the overall view which is that special permits may be granted when it's found that the use involved will not be detrimental to the established or Future character of the neighborhood and the town and when it's found that the use involved would be in harmony with the general purpose and intent of the bylaw that's that's our overall criteria aside from the individual specific ones that we've been uh raising with you well if I can I adust that just for a minute sure the the um uh the reason why I agree with Dave Nixon that having it go to the planning board it's just going to be a repetition of Mr Shane's comments is that uh it's obvious that they're invested in their proposed change it's been going along for years now it may continue for more years but they're invested in that change and I think that uh sending to them you're going to get back notes to say we don't we don't like this because this is in our Village Center so I think that my suggestion would be that you take that as a given and then when you take your vote decide if that's a determining Factor then your vote is no but if it's not a determining Factor then the vote is yes and the the only thing I could say and this no disrespect to the planning board or Mr Shane or anybody else you know our town is famous amongst lawyers on Cape Cod who do zoning bylaw stuff for never changing its bylaw because they can never get 2/3 plus one on his only bylaw change and this proposal for this Village Center has already come up once and been withdrawn because they didn't have the vote for it so I mean the question is you know how long are we in stasis here waiting for the planning board and and so I would just suggest we know how they feel I'm confident that's how they feel and I think you should be confident of that as well question is do we have to wait uh for something that may never happen or is this a good use for a property to to help an existing business continue on a path of profitability well I I appreciate your argument but uh I don't want to prejudge what the planning board may or may not do um and I don't want to dismiss their concerns out of hand simply because maybe the town will or will not continue on with the course that it has it seems to me we need to uh hear what they have to say and then we need to apply it to our criteria um and that would assist us in doing that I think also I appreciate that you're trying to keep this within a budget but to a certain extent we keep hearing about things that would be of significance to us in terms of uh the proposals such as the fact that it's it's a water-based bottom paint that's used and therefore there won't be a problem but are those going to be conditions that were going to be imposed on any business that goes in there because certainly that's not the case with most or a lot of the uh bottom painting that's done in town uh when we look at this sketch of both that might be there it certainly needs to be I think more detailed for us to look at and get a feel for what this is actually going to look at in the neighborhood um I realize that that you know that involves some expenses and and I don't want to try and uh uh prejudge you as to whether you want to spend that kind of money or not spend that kind of money and and deal with it but those are factors which are going to be normally dealt with at the planning board level inti and then come to us in a sort of finalized form with their conditions um so I guess overall I'm saying that uh I think that it would be premature for us to go forward with a special permit with respect to these properties without planning board approval so given that we're on questions Paul would your question be what does planning board think I need to know that how's that that's certainly a good way to put it why don't we put it that way all right so now I have a question and this is for um Mr I wrote it down bur I already do burner burner yes thank you yeah okay so can you tell us whether or not the primary function for this is storage I mean honestly you let's just have it is this the primary function so you can store boats storage and maintenance no but I want the primary function not oh you can't wait wait you I I can't you can't separate the two anymore you know as a lawyer you're trying to parse things just like Jay goes through looks at the words in the bylaw you have to look at how does a boat yard operate so you can't separate storage from the maintenance because if they don't have boats and storage they can't do the maintenance if they don't do the maintenance then they're not profitable you can't separate them there's a such thing as storing boats somewhere right you can store them and then you can bring them somewhere else for all the other auta that goes along with boating but I'm I'm asking and you obviously you don't have to answer no every boat has a different business model and there are many boat yards that have um wholesale storage yards where once the boat is put away in storage that boat will not be touched until it gets ready to go in the water um those boaty yards may have a large larger Waterfront footprint those boatyards May hire a bunch of seasonal workers and then lay them off at the end of the year that's not my business model my business model is to keep a year round staff of good people employed year round so I maintain and work on but there might be a couple months during the year January February I just had a very simple I'm a a simple person with simple question because I'm trying to apply the bylaw to your application and I want to know what the primary function of this is and uh can you tell me that yeah the primary function is going to be storing and maintaining boats so and light repairs so it's all three okay so I think at this point um I would I think we should entertain the issue of whether or not we want to vote well actually we have to do deliberations but after we do that so have your heads thinking about do we want to vote whether or not to agree with the Building Commissioner and his interpretation that this is not properly before us so we'll do deliberations and then be but be thinking about the two parts of this hearing do we want we we could vote on whether or not we think this is properly before us um based on the Building Commissioner um letter and then if and then we're going to take a vote on whether or not we think this meets the special permit criteria so now I'm going to ask Paul to move to close the hearing I will move to close the hearing and move into deliberation ations uh Dave V seconds and votes yes yes all votes yes yes and I vote Yes as well okay now we're going to go into deliberations and I think everybody's clear on the things that we're going to deliberate about um hopefully Ed the gun there um I guess because I'm I'm what I guess what you've submitted I I want to support local business I want to support your Boatyard um I'm a Boer but what you've submitted hasn't really helped you tonight in in my opinion we have a plan of what you're going to do on the property and it just shows boat storage and then we ask questions about maintenance and what kind of maintenance is going to be done on the property and the qu the answer seems to be oh we're really not going to do maintenance there we're going to just do you know little things so um it's it's you know the the zoning is you can't just do storage and if you're going to do true maintenance there I think you're going to need some some more infrastructure there to do to do maintenance and then um I think you should I would have submitted a plan or you know I I I think screening is you know uh I you know boats can be beautiful but they're not really beautiful when they're covered in in in tarps or shrink wrap or whatever so um I'm I'm not opposed to uh the facility but I I what's submitted so far um doesn't meet our zoning in my opinion so do you do you agree with the finding of the Building Commissioner a I I do I I what I see is a a boat storage area okay okay very good Dave Nixon well I I agree with Mr Acton uh I believe that um I would support uh our Building Commissioner uh it it doesn't seem to me to be something other than storage with a few other things going on and as Mr Acton pointed out if if it's really going to be maintenance and all that kind of stuff then I would think there'd be a plan for a building and so on so forth so to answer your question uh I will be supporting the motion that our Building Commissioner is correct okay Jenny starting with the Building Commissioner determination and then if you find that he is not accurate because has been enough other information then you can then decide whether you want to talk about the special permit okay um I did think that coming into tonight but I do feel like I heard something earlier I think Mr Riley articulated very well and so did Mr is it burn I'm sorry burner burner that there is this connectivity between storage and keeping your clients that is part of sustaining his business that makes me think that maybe it's not a we're not able to really be so specific and parse I think was the word um I so I I'm I'm really intrigued by by that and thinking um that yes the primary function is not those things and it and it and it is it appears that it's storage I do agree with Ed Acton that you know this could have been um the descript ion here of what you wanted could have been a little more specific but we heard we heard greater specificity from from both of you um so I think that the storage and the maintenance and the light repairs maybe they don't need a building and and a structure it sounds like it's um it's something that is required to sustain the business and I think I've heard almost everyone say if not everyone that we're pro business we're we want to support um your business and and local uh workers in town and giving them opportunity for employment and I also think that with respect to Mr chain and and the and the comments around the the Planning Commission that's a question mark what's going to happen with that when it's going to happen and I don't think that or I do think that boating is as Mr Riley said I thought very well chadam is a boating community if you drive down 28 it's or or in many places around chadam there are boatyards you barely even notice them they're not that unsightly and it's part of and this isn't just chadam this is row and Connecticut it's all kinds of places that are Seaside communities that um can be attractive in their own way whether they're shrink wrapped or not it's indicative of the um the proximity especially chadam to the sea to all you know all kinds of um Co and ponds and nck sound and the ocean Etc so I'm I'm actually thinking that we um that I could support not supporting Mr bricks and what about the special permit how would you vote on that I mean if you want to just give an indication I think I could support it you do okay um Dave v um well uh I part of the reason that I said that I I would like to hear from the planning board um is is it's just I mean part of it is that and we don't we haven't even been given a site plan here and so I I mean we've we've heard a lot of there been nice presentation but the materials that we've been giv don't even compare to what we normally get in order to make our decisions so I I don't know what to think about that but but I I I can't I mean it's sounds to me like there been making arguments about there'll be other work other than storage that qualifies to to uh apply the Marina or Boatyard definition to this this use but based on the material we've been given it's it looks like a storage facility in which now they're saying well we can do I've also heard well all right know that kind of works going back to the Boatyard and then we're going to move it back and and still sounds to me like the the intent here is primarily storage and and um then and there's a lot of kinds of work that that they might need to do on these boats but that's going to involve moving them back to the Boatyard moving them back to the storage facility so I'm inclined um to support Jay's determination here um he does this every day um I don't we don't and we sometimes get questions um or or you know um appeals of building inspector's decisions and they come to us as that and we we weigh them as that and look at it in this case I'm inclined to give Jay the benefit of a doubt and in terms of of reading definitions and looking at the situation looking at how it's been presented and and applying that um and then aside from that I I'm I'm I'm very much have some question in and and the other reason I what kind want to hear from the planning board is because I can see in the zoning bylaw that a marina Boatyard it gets it gets very favored um um position it's it's not only in the SB District that there this is this would be an Allowed by special permit in any of the residential districts in town so I I'm not sure I mean i' I'd like some guidance on where that came from or what that means because I'm kind of try I'm trying to think about all right so say so they're going to make the instead of this location they proposed to do this out in uh I don't know riverbay or something uh I I kind of imagine the uh the uh neighborhood um opposition that might show up I can't can't say for sure but I and um having um lived operated and operated a small business and and had a business in chatam in the middle of a business district a general business district um there's a part of me that in it's an agreement aside from all this is the agreement that this is not a good location for a boat yard I'm in the heart of what is intended to be it has you know nothing's happened yet but it's it's the in the com the intent is to be uh um you know F primarily um retail residential um District that's what they're trying seeking to create I've seen enough of that um and I just I'm I really not sure that that that this use is compatible with the Future character of of what we're intend to do so I will support Jay's u determination and even if um you didn't support Jay's and you thought it was probably before us by what you just said it sounds uh I'm I'm afraid I I'm I'm I don't like to vote against things but I I I have some serious concerns about this as for a special permit okay very good good to know Paul well I guess I would turn it around a little bit um and ask Jay whether his uh opinion uh still holds having heard what he's heard tonight in terms of what he intends to use for the property thanks Paul yeah I was going to ask you the same thing I mean on the on the site plan that I got three weeks after the submission or somewhere around there I would like to see the boats to scale I'd like to see the limit of clearing it seems much smaller than what's represented on the plan now um they did mention some maintenance items that would be occurring on the site I was hoping that the board would be the ones to determine whether or not it meets the definition of Boatyard um if shrink wrapping and and applying bottom paint satisfies the board um again I go back to the primary function is construction repair and maintenance well they not probably I mean I don't know about repairs it sounded like that was going back to the Waterfront for that but um I don't have to vote on it well I guess I guess what you're saying is you would still stick by your letter it's a tough it's tough it is tough hard because the proposal is vague it is and and we got more information tonight from Mr Riley and and the applicant um I'm sticking with my letter for now okay all right um well uh I think I uh take take the position that U uh we still need to deal with that issue first right and uh once we deal with that issue we can go on to the question of whether it meets the criteria of the uh necessary for a special permit I think in order to get to the special permit criteria we need to go through the planning board first but I would uh aside in along the line of what Jay has provided us with respect to uh what's the definition of a Boatyard and what's the definition of uh um balance so um I would I would go with Jay's opinion and and then you wouldn't really feel prepared to vote on the special then I would need input from and I and as I I have mentioned before and as Dave beach has mentioned we just don't have very much information here other than what's been offered off the cuff tonight uh which is different from what you read right about the chronicle for instance in terms of what was being done here and it's different from uh what he was initially told um it may be ultimately that that will be something that we could approve but absent input from the planning board in the areas that they have expertise which is not just the question of what's the the development area but also uh input on traffic and input on barking and so forth all of those kinds of things we need to hear uh before we can deal with a special permit so okay Mr Riley um I I wanted to let you know that I would also support the Building Commissioner tonight but even if I didn't I would vote no on the special permit because I don't think it meets the criteria um I'm very concerned in the impact traffic flow and safety I mean in that spot I I know what it's like to try to back up a boat even a even a tiny little sailboat is tricky uh to get to maneuver and then you have people you know that's a very very busy area so I think um that doesn't meet that criteria I don't think it's a suitable site for this proposed use either so um and I could go on but I just want to let you know that so what do you want to do uh we'd ask to withdraw without prejudice sure okay Paul I'll move to Grant the requested withdrawal without prejudice David sson votes yes I vote Yes all votes yes jny votes yes as do I it's unanimous so all that being said it's 50:3 and have a motion to I'll move to a journ Dave V seconds and votes yes Dave oh Ed votes yes I vote Yes Paul votes yes I vote Yes Steve votes yes yes and I vote Yes as well and what time is it um whoever's talking online the the the meeting is over so just let us um just finish officially and that would be by saying what time it is :01 PM it's :01 p.m. and we will say good night chadam for