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Good afternoon everyone. It's September 4th, 2025 and we are at the zoning board of appeals meeting in the town of Chattam pursuant to Governor Healey's March 28th, 2025 signing of the acts of 2025 extending certain COVID measures
adopted during the state of emergency suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law until June 30, 2027. This meeting of the Cadam Zoning Board of Appeals is being conducted in person and via remote participation. Every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the
proceedings as provided for in the order. A reminder, people who would like to listen to this meeting while in progress may do so by calling 508 9454410 conference ID460964253
pound or join the meeting via the link on Microsoft Teams on the posted agenda the town's website. While this is a live broadcast and simal cast on Cadam TV, despite our best effort, we may not be able to provide real time access, but
we'll post a record of this meeting on the town's website as soon as possible. In accordance with town policy, the public can speak to any issue, hearing, or business item on the agenda during the meeting when recognized by the chair. Just want to take this point in
time to say please shut off any device that makes any sort of noise whatsoever and keep your conversations extremely brief or take them into the hall, please. Um, our procedural steps are as follows. We do a roll call of all board
members authorizing this form of meeting. We ask if anybody um online participating uh via the call, make it known, make your identity known to us. Uh and we should see the last four digits of your phone number. Um hearing
notice will be read by staff. That's o'clock on my right. Um the representative in this case will be Penrose and they will be providing a presentation today and I will summarize all letters that have been received by
the board. Then anyone that wishes to comment may speak up to three minutes and there will be a clock on on the uh screen up there and we we stick to the three minutes and I'll let you know um give you sort of a 20 m 20 second
warning. Um the applicant uh after all the letters are read and everybody talks they'd have a chance then to rebrut anything that they hear or or make some statements and in this case Penrose you know will be the ones that your
statements are essentially um geared towards and they take notes and we won't there won't be a back and forth between the board and anybody that talks today but Penrose will take notes and then they will respond to some today and then they will do some homework and respond
to you next time most likely. Um, let's see. Then the board will ask uh questions or make some prelim preliminary uh statements about this application. Um, and then at the end we will continue the application to a date
certain. Looks like it's likely to be October 16, 2025 for the next meeting uh for this particular application. All votes are taken by roll call and at the end of the meeting we will close by a verbal confirmation and note the time of
adjournment. So at this point in time um we're going to do a roll call vote of all members and we'll start off with David V. Uh David HV and I approve this format meeting. Uh Ed Actton and I approve. David S. Nixon I approve.
Paul Sample I approve this format. Steven Dborne I approve. Virginia Fick I approve. and Randy Pradesh I approve as well. We just have one board member absent today um and she will um listen to the recording and sign an affidavit and this way everybody will
be um able to vote. We're going to try to keep that up. So we know that if you miss a meeting you need to listen to it and sign an affidavit that you did that. So we'd like to keep everybody in play um just like we are with the other application. So, um, at this point, oh,
Randy Pardash, I approve of this method as well. Sarah, application number 25-077, Penrose LLC, 15 Milk Street, 16th floor, Boston, Mass 02109. The property is owned by the Town of Cadam located at zero meeting house
road, also shown on the town of Chadam's assessor's map 4E, block 11A, law ab. The applicants are requesting the grant of a comprehensive permit under Mass General Law Chapter 40B sections 20 through 23 and 760 CMR65 for the
construction of 42 42 dwelling units in eight structures. The applicants are requesting the grant of various waiverss from regulations promulgated by the Chattam zoning bylaw and other local regulations. The property contains 3.757 acres in the R60 zoning district. This
was continued from August 14th, 2025. Welcome. Hi, good afternoon. For the record, uh my name is Rio Siceti. I'm a senior project manager with Penrose. Um Penrose
is a national uh affordable and mixed income housing developer. Um we have over 27,000 uh apartments completed nationwide. We have a strong presence here on Cape Cod, including our village at Nasa Green
project in East Ham and our recently completed Cape Cod 5 redevelopment in Orleans. Um, and we're excited to be here in Cadam working on this meeting house uh submission that we have before you.
Uh, it's very similar uh well, it's the same development team. I know this board is at this point already very familiar with our team based on our um main street comprehensive permit um hearings. Um this is the same team and it's a very
similar type of development as well although here at meeting house it's it's a much different site. Uh but for the benefit of the members of the public and for record uh I'd like to reintroduce the team we have working on this and
here with me tonight is Carmen Chung who's regional director for Penrose and sits with is uh with me in the Boston Penrose office. Um we also I believe have Joe Gaddy our associate developer
online. Um from the design team we have Mark Warful from Crowley Cautil. He's a landscape architect. We have Joe Henderson from Horesley Whitten who's a civil engineer. And we also have Paul Atman from Union Studios and Paul is the
architect for the project. And of course we also have our attorney Andrew Singer here as well with us tonight. Um so our approach on um this project has been similar uh to Main Street. We
started off uh with an approach we've called Embrace Cadam uh which ma which means focusing on uh what the town needs for affordable housing, what they were looking for and then also a type of building and architecture that fits into
the town. Um, and so we've gotten better at that, I think, as we've progressed through the different boards on on both Main Street and this meeting house project and and especially going through the multiple uh hearings on on Main Street. So, we've really been able to
fine-tune the type of architecture um we've put into these buildings. Um, I'll give a little bit of history on this uh for the benefit of the board and for the public. Um, this project has been shaped by a multi-year effort by
the town of Chadam. uh where we came in Penrose and the development team was in early 2024 when the town issued an RFP to designate a developer for the site to build affordable and workforce housing.
uh we responded and submitted a proposal to that RFP in April 2024 um which resulted in us being selected by the town as a designated developer in July 2024.
Since then we had negotiated a land disposition agreement with the town um which was executed in early February 2025. Um and during that whole period and process we had been meeting with different town departments and also
different boards including the planning board. Uh we have a summary of um the hearings we've done and the meetings we've had to date up here. Um so all those meetings and hearings have resulted in changes from what was
originally proposed in our initial RFP and it's been continuing we've continued to um uh fine-tune the design actually based on the feedback we had been getting from uh the hearings on Main Street which has been helpful. Um
I I will also want to give um sort of some of the sort of the basics on the property information for your benefit too as well. Um this project is 42 units in total. Um the unit mix is a mix of
one bedrooms, two bedrooms and three bedrooms. It's um approximately 65% of the units are twos and threes and 35% of the units are onebedrooms. And that specific ratio really comes
from the state HLC um to be most competitive for the type of subsidies needed to build this type of housing. Um so overall that's 75 bedrooms out of the 42 units. The typical occupancy that we would
project for this is 82 to 83 people. That's based on a ratio of 1.1 occupants uh persons per bedroom. And that's actually based on what we're experiencing at village at Nasa Green in Eastamp and during the lease up of the
Cape Cod 5 redevelopment in Orleans. Although the maximum occupancy uh that we uh have to follow is two persons per bedroom, but that's rare to ever have that amount. Um there are what's even
more rare is there are some instances where you may need to uh have more than two persons per bedroom uh for certain fair housing rules to make sure no one's discriminated against. Um, out of you can see on the site there's
eight total uh buildings. It's a similar style to Main Street in that they're um town home styles with their own entrances. We have on building one, though it's not labeled here, it's up in the upper right corner. That's building one. We have
management offices appended to the left and maintenance workshops and maintenance storage appended to the right of that building. So, um, just with that quick overview in mind, um, I think what we'll do next is,
um, I'm going to transition over to our attorney, Andrew Singer, who's going to walk through his summary of legal reasoning for the application, uh, on how this project fits into the, uh, 40B comp permit framework. Good afternoon. Thank you, Rio. For the
record, Andrew Singer, attorney in Dennisport here on behalf of the applicant. Uh, for my brief remarks here, I'm just going to leave this slide up. Um, I just wanted to introduce and again for the board, but more so for the public because a lot of this will be familiar to you, is the uh legal
framework that we're here before you uh regarding 40B. um uh after I've spoken then have some presentations from the landscape architect, the engineer and the building architect to take you through the details of the project and there's slides as well. I submitted a
copy of a print out of this slide deck uh before the meeting to Sarah. So, uh it is part of the record what you are seeing here. Excuse me. As Rio mentioned, Penrose was selected uh for this project um uh through a request for
proposals process with the town. It's town owned land and the town had been seeking to develop it for affordable housing. There is, as he mentioned, a land dispos disposition agreement between that was signed between the town of Chadam and Penrose. Uh this is the
project that they proposed and the project that was accepted and that we've applied for today is a rental project. uh this is not a project that uh can accommodate home ownership or something that Penrose isn't uh it's not what they do. Uh and so this is a rental project
um that we're presenting before you for the 42 units. Um it is as Rio mentioned 100% a minimum of 25% of the units have to be deed restricted. In this case there's going to be 100% of the units in deed restricted for different levels of
income ranges. So it does comply with the uh 40 more than complies with the 40B requirements and Penrose will um post approval by this board of a comprehensive permit will enter into uh the required exe affordable housing restriction with the executive office of
housing and livable communities um which is not only required by uh the land disposition agreement it's always required by a board of appeals approving such projects as well. Um there'll be more details the next couple things I'm going to mention, but I wanted to just raise that um there will be 61 parking
spaces on the site. It's an equivalent ratio to 1.45 um per unit. And these are things that will be discussed more by the engineer. Um uh the property will be connected to the town sewer. The um
there is going to be, as you can see on the plan, a new access drive constructed. Uh it's going this is going to be on a separate parcel of land. So the access drive will be a piece and then the main body of the land will be a piece. Um this is the town itself was
recently awarded or previously awarded a site readiness grant for design and engineering of this access. So that grant that was awarded to the town covers the part of um the driveway that's from meeting house road up to where you get to the parking lot
basically essentially. We have submitted to you a traffic impact and analysis uh both an original one and an updated one. The updated one was done with new numbers counted in July of just this past summer. You know
just uh so you have both of those with you. peer review actually has been completed by your peerreview consultant on both the site design and the uh traffic. We're not going to probably get into too much of it today, but you know, we did do um as Rio said, we in the
other project where before you, we went back and got some additional traffic numbers data for you on this project as well. So, all of that is in the record and will be something that I know we will be discussing as the project moves forward. the August update to that
traffic study which was using those July numbers. Um the supplement finds quote this analysis the new analysis continues to demonstrate that the project can be accommodated within the confines of the existing transportation infrastructure in a safe and efficient manner with
implementation of the recommendations that are defined in the June 2025 traffic study. So there were they had a list of recommendations and that's they were referring back to those and again those are all in your um in your packets. The town of Chadam, as you know, has
made a commitment to providing affordable housing, additional affordable housing in town. And goal 7.1 of the comprehensive plan is to improve opportunities for the area's low and moderate income households to find safe and decent, affordable year-round
housing within Chattam. The Chattam housing production plan also writes, quote, that it is focused on addressing the critical housing needs in Chattam today through a diverse suite of goals and strategies that holistically promote housing opportunity, housing
affordability in the town. And these include increasing Chattam's affordable, attainable, and accessibly housing stock to enable a variety of households to participate in the community, including but not limited to seniors, low and moderate income households, employees in
the town, families, and people with disabilities. Um, as to the employees, um, one of the things the applicant's proposing on this proposal, as with the last one, is to, um, offer up to 70% local preference on initial tenant lease
up as is allowed by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And that's working with you, you and the town, you know, on that at the time of initial leaf lease up. Cadam's current affordable um, housing stock is uh, 4.81% 81% as measured by
the state. The state's goal as you know for 40B is 10%. Um with so so and the question was asked to me right before the meeting and so we did some quick calculations about Chadam's at 4.81% now and what what would that number be with
this project if the main street project of the 48 units is ultimately approved. So, if that was case, if if we have the current housing stock and if Main Street is approved, these 42 units will bring Cadam's percentage to approximately
7.22%. Uh, and with Main Street, I think it goes from 4.81 to a little over six. So, this would be that net a progression up from from that. So, with both projects, Chadam would be at 7.22% 22% uh for its deedrestricted annual affordable housing
stock towards the town's 10% goal with the Commonwealth. Um the applicant believes that this proposed development that you have up on the screen and that you're going to hear much more about is consistent with and supports the above affordable housing goals under both the housing production
plan and the comprehensive plan. All of the units are going to count as I just noted in the town's inventory of affordable housing and will assist in providing additional quality affordable housing in Chadam. So the comprehensive permit itself, this law was created way back in 1969 and it
was an attempt to try to um uh enable communities to uh provide more in somewhat more denser affordable housing. Um and you all are the decision maker. You stand in thestead of everybody. Planning board, conservation commission,
health board, everybody. Uh for a comprehensive permit though, you only have to vote by majority vote. Under chapter 48, when you grant a special permit or a variance, you have to have a four a supermajority. You need four of the five of you to approve of a project. Uh for a comprehensive permit, it's a
simple majority. So that's one difference between 40b and 40A. um other town boards who you're standing in theirstead of are encouraged to give you comments and you have comments from the planning board and the DPW you may have some others by now but I know there are some comments there that the
engineer um and we will be looking at and you'll be looking at um if there are state project if there are state permits required and I don't believe there are in this project because it's on a town road then um uh the state would still have to do it even under a 40B but in
this case the project's on town sewer it's not a state highway way and so therefore um I don't believe there are any separate state permits that are required um in accordance with the rules that have been adopted by the department of h well the former department of housing
and community development um an applicant has to show demonstrate three things to appear before you um first they have to uh be either a public agency a nonprofit organization or a limited dividend organization Penrose will be qualifying as a limited dividend
organization for this proposal as they have for their others on Cape Cod and elsewhere uh in the Commonwealth. Second, the project has to be fundable by a subsidizing agency under low and moderate income housing subsidy program that is and has been demonstrated
through the project eligibility letter that was uh issued by EOHLC, which you have a copy of in your file. And finally, the pro the applicant must control the site. And in this case, uh this is town land where the town has entered into a contract, a land disposition agreement with the
applicant, uh authorizing them to seek this permit from you, uh demonstrating site control. Now, as the public hearing process proceeds, um we will be discussing among other matters, I'm sure, driveways and access, what you see on the plan before you um but uh there
is site control through the grant of the uh RFP award to to the applicant. The legal standard you look at on these projects is a little different from 4DA as well. You are looking at whether the proposal is quote consistent with local
needs and and I appreciate your indulgence on this. I know you have heard what I'm about to say before, but for the since this is a new hearing on a new project uh for the for the record and for the members of the public, I wanted to just go through this paragraph, which is that you look at it
the standard of consistent with local needs. are authorized to um impose conditions if the conditions do not render the project in the development uneconomic and arriving at what is consistent with local needs, what is economic or uneconomic um involves a
flexible balancing test. It's a series of compromises among what we all acknowledge are several worthwhile and competing local rules, regulations, and policies. The balancing test requires you to weigh and balance the need for affordable
housing with zoning, environmental, health, safety, site design, open space, historic and planning impacts of a proposed development. That's a lot on your plate. Uh the goal though is to always create quality housing that is affordable for qualified individuals and
families and which will be a source of pride to its residents, the town, and the project proponent while at the same time appropriately protecting public health, safety, and welfare. And as Rio noted in one of his slides and he's stated and we've stated in other meetings, um, one of the key
considerations for Penrose is creating a livable community, a development where its residents are calling home and are happy and proud and comfortable calling that home and they have uh, you know, pride in where they are and where they're living and it's a good quality
and development. And as you're going to hear from um the other three gentlemen very shortly, um we believe and we're hoping to ask you at the ultimate end of the hearing process to determine that the project is consistent with local needs and will not
have a material detrimental effect on the character of the neighborhood or the town and is worthy of approval. Now, as part of that with a 40B, um the applicant is um entitled and always has to request waiverss from certain
provisions of local bylaws. And the key one that's on every single 40B is a request for a density waiver because by definition, the reason why an applicant's before you for a 40B comprehensive permit is because the project is more dense than the underlying zoning will allow. Now, these
aren't variances. They're not 48 standards of legal hardship based on soil condition, shape or topography of the land. The waiver standard is as you balance local needs, would this waiver or without the waiver render a project uneconomic or unbuildable completely?
And we have submitted, it's on pages um six and seven of the summary, and we don't have to go through them all right now, but we have submitted a list of waiverss um that we anticipate reviewing with you throughout the process. As I noted um you know the first one of the
first ones is is the density uh which has to be then there's also uh some waiverss required for the parking for building coverage um and some setbacks and we also put a very detailed breakdown for height variances. So that waivers so there is a request for
waivers for certain height where they will not comply and exceed the 30 foot otherwise limit in the town. We broke that out for you by building on page six of the summary that I submitted so that uh when we get there um we can go through it, you know, if you want building by building. Um and you can see
that we also requested some waiverss from planning board regulations which are necessary because of how the lot is going to be developed with the driveway parcel and the developed parcel. And finally, we have a waiver from the uh Cape Cut Commission regulations because they are deemed a local board for
purposes of 40B by state law. Um, so with that, we we look forward to working with you um both today and and and ongoing meetings on this and continuing to work with staff on it. And I would like to turn it over to Mark Warful, the landscape architect, to continue the
presentation. Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Mark Warfl. I'm a landscape architect with Crowley Cultural Landscape Architecture. Um before you on this slide is a is a we've zoomed out a bit to show the context of this project. So on the um
western side of the parcel we abut uh Twine Field which is shown towards the top of the slide. Uh on the eastern side it's meeting house road or route uh 137. Uh and then on the south side uh we have
the old colony rail trail. Um across the street there is the Our Lady of Grace Church. Uh noting that the entry drive aligns with the driveway into the church.
Um I'll go ahead and move on to site design. So we zoomed in a little bit. This is the entry drive that I was talking about. So, this comes through the front part of the parcel and uh slopes up into into the back portion. Um
the driveway navigates around the project. Um there's it's a circular circulation around a um planted uh median in the middle. the there are seven buildings. So, they're
arranged um surrounding that parking. We go from building one uh counterclockwise all the way over to building 8. And um we've situated this community in a way that it connects to the local amenities.
So there are entrances which I'll speak a little bit more to in a few slides uh into Twine Field as well as connection to the rail trail. Um and then we have uh
a sidewalk that goes throughout to um an area of pickup and drop off down in this area uh along Meeting House Road. uh is is the location of the project sign. So we've highlighted it here in red. It faces it runs parallel
with the road. So the text faces the road. And um I just wanted to walk through what that would look like. So this is the typical uh detail. Uh it has a a masonry base with the sign mounted on top. Um,
it's about six to seven feet wide. And a practical example from the recently completed Swift's Landing project shows what this looks like in reality. So, this base is made out of brick. There's a capping stone and then the sign sits a
top. On the sign, there will be the name of the project, uh, the address and the telephone or contact information. The site's uniquely located between um two amenities for the area. So, Twine
Field to the west and the rail trail to the south. Um we're connecting to those uh to provide recreational opportunities for the people that will live here. Um there's also a lot of amenities in the
site itself. So we have two uh amenity zones. Um between building one and two uh this is where the male center would be. We have areas for residents to sit and visit and enjoy the outdoors. Um
currently we're showing a a shade structure here to provide some shade. Uh and there's a connection into Twine Field through this way. Um this is sort of the community hub uh being adjacent
to the management offices. Uh further on the southern side uh in general the site is sloping away down here as it comes down towards the rail trail. And so we've used that to our
advantage in in this corner. Um, we've chosen some play equipment that gets built into that slope and the slope becomes a play element. So, there's uh embankment slides and a rock scramble
and and some um climbing apparatus to to utilize that slope as well as an area um at the bottom for gathering. So, we have some tables and chairs um and places for people to relax. Um there's also a sort
of natural flat spot on the site located in this area. And we've really imagined this as being the, you know, kind of wooded backyard. So this with with little effort of of um cleaning up some of the debris that's in the woods, but maintaining the existing
trees and natural features, it's it turns into a a kind of play space um for for the residents here. Uh lighting is really important. We like to take the the track of providing
the right lighting in the right places. It's just enough um for navigation and safety. And so there's two strategies that we've taken with this project. We have a pedestrian pole which um has the
light fixture on top looks like this and um lower level ballard lighting. So these would be you know waist height. Uh so when we submit the lighting design we provide a phototric calculation plan. So
this is a technical plan that um determines the light value on the site and uh it can be really hard to read at this scale. So we put together um a diagram showing where the light will
land. Uh the important fact is that on uh at the lot lines we are at zero. So there is no spillover. All the light fixtures are dark sky compliant. Um and we spec uh just jump back a few slides
here. Um, we spec lights in the 3000 Kelvin color temperature, which is a nice um, warm kind of mid level lighting. So, it doesn't appear blue like a shopping um,
parking lot, but it's also not um, you know, so warm that it it uh, you know, looks candle lit. Um, so in this diagram, we have the roads and the path networks lit in and around
the neighborhood, but also providing some ballard lighting down to the community area and um in between the buildings. Now, I'll speak to planting um a little bit. So there's uh a few different typologies here. We
have the street trees which we've placed around the the site uh to enhance the streetscape. Uh these would be large deciduous canopy trees much like what's shown in in the
pictures in the top right. Um there's also buffer planting which um we've shown at the edges. uh we use a mixture of deciduous trees, evergreen trees as well as um flowering trees. So those can
be seen in this um second row here. And then um around the buildings themselves, we've proposed a robust foundation planting um scheme. uh that's indicated. It's a little hard to see on the screen,
but that this is a a lush planted um streetscape for these buildings. Um and that's a mixture of these uh deciduous shrubs, evergreen shrubs and and ground covers. Um there are some areas on the site where we are disturbing the
existing woodland uh because of uh grading and and the engineering which Joe um from Horses Whitten will get into a little bit more. And uh so we're taking a restoration planting approach. So this is um what's indicated here. Uh
it's to reforest these disturbed areas as fast as we can. Um, so that's an overview of the site design. I'm going to pass it off to Joe Henderson from Horesley Whitten to talk about the uh project's engineering.
Thank you. Great. Good afternoon. Uh, Joe Henderson, Horesley Whitten Group. Uh, good to be here. And I thought I would do uh an overview of the the civil engineering items. um specifically the site layout, the grading and some of the
uh utilities. So first uh I wanted to start with the site. Um in general the all the roadways and drive aisles are 24 ft in width. Um we've also um are proposing a combination of 90° and parallel parking
spaces. Um the 90 degree spaces are 9 by 18 ft 9 ft wide by 18 ft long and the parallel spaces which maybe I can show. So the parallel spaces are in this area
here and those are uh 22 feet long by 8 ft wide. Um in total we have uh 61 parking spaces which Mr. Singer mentioned um and that is for a ratio of 1.45 four or five um spaces per unit. Um
the dumpsters uh there is one dumpster location for the site. It's in this uh northern uh northwestern portion of the property and that's where the the enclosure for all trash will go. Um we have um several waivers as Mr. Singer
mentioned. I've highlighted here in red. We've got a side yard waiver and a rear yard waiverss. And um the required setback is 25 ft. And we are uh proposing a 20 foot minimum setback.
And that you can see here this is 20 20.4 I believe this one's 20 exactly and over here we have 20.8. So the minimum is 20. the front yard setback which uh is this uh highlighted
item. Uh that's related to really this public rightway that Mr. Singer also mentioned. The public rightway is being provided to um because of the um site readiness grant that will um build that entrance roadway. So we do have a waiver
from that and that would be um from 40 feet to 25.8T. But as you can see, the the actual buildings are quite a ways from Meeting House Road. Uh just to note the our plan, we did provide a plan that was labeled as a
definitive subdivision plan, but I just I wanted to just clarify that that would be uh approved as an ANR or approval not required plan. Um so that's something we can definitely discuss with the town as we move forward.
Uh this plan depicts the vehicle circulation specifically for the town's uh ladder truck. And I just wanted to show that we have run that through the property just to to make sure that the truck can circulate uh from the entrance
all the way around and back out. Um the green line that's shown here represents the the swing of the truck or the body swing. The red line is the uh actual wheel path. So, we have uh prepared this
plan, sent it to the fire chief, and uh they've indicated that they have no issues with the plan. Just wanted to get that in front of everyone. Um the grading and drainage for the site, as Mark mentioned, this is a very somewhat challenging site because of the
topography. Uh there's a range down here at Meeting House Road. we're down at elevation 52. Uh and in the back by Twine Field, we're all the way up at 65. So, you've got, you know, a 13 ft um range in elevation across the site. We
also have this large depression here in the uh south uh southeast corner of the site. Um, so that being said, um, to make the grades work so that we have, uh, visitability and, um, ADA
compliance, we do need some walls around the perimeter. There's, um, not the entirety of the prop property, but there's some along all sides, the northern side here. Um there's a small wall on the um southern side and then
there is another wall on this eastern side along that embankment. The um the entrance to the site um is currently graded out um as an earthen uh fill. So the conditions here there's a very large
depression sloping down from Meeting House Road and then it slopes back up into uh the developable portion of the property. So, uh, we had to build a, uh, um, fill in this area to provide a roadway that would, uh, meet the proper
grades to, um, to get into the site. So, that's what you see here. This is just a slope along a slope from the proposed grade down into the existing grade. Uh, this is um done to to make a safe
condition for um, erosion and other issues. So we've graded this out safe manner to uh accommodate that roadway. Um the storm water management for the project I've highlighted that in green
we uh we do use uh green infrastructure LI approach. We have bio retention areas here and here and we have tree trenches uh here and here similar to our approach with the other project. We also have water quality units which are just used
to uh reduce the TSS for the project. Um those treat the water quality volume um which is you the one in storm event and that's uh intended to treat the the impervious areas. So all the roadways and parking areas. The large storms um
are then bypassed and we're proposing to manage those in this existing large depression. So taking advantage of the storage that we have on site, we are uh putting the large storm events there. So that's our our storm water approach
that handles up to the 100year storm event and that's noted here and we've kind of delineated that um actual extent of the um the water. This has all been um modeled using a program called
Hydraad. We've prepared a um storm water report. It's been submitted for review by the peer engineers, peerreview engineers. Um and that is intended to show that we meet the uh the state uh policy for storm water management.
And lastly, I just wanted to go over the utilities for the site. This this is um connecting to the town sewer and meeting house road. Um, we're proposing a gravity sewer collection system which just consists of 8 in pipe with 4ft
diameter manholes. Because of the the topography, uh we can make this all uh flow by gravity to the town sewer. We're showing a um a connection here. It's called a doghouse manhole where it's just a manhole installed over top of the
existing uh sewer line, but you know, we're open to um you know, if the DPW wants to do that differently, I think we more than happy to accommodate um any suggestions they may have for that. Um the water supply is also connecting out
into Meeting House Road. Um we have a looped configuration and we als we have one hydrant proposed uh in the uh central to all the buildings. Um and then lastly the electric telephone cable will also be um coming off of uh
meeting house road and be circulating into the site. I think with that I'm going to uh pass along to Paul Atman at Union. Hello everyone. Hello board and chair
once again. I'm Paul Atman. I'm a principal at Union Studio Architecture and Community Design. We have two offices. One in Providence and a small presence in Philadelphia as well. And we are our the basis of our work is
missiondriven. It's to use the power of design to enrich lives and strengthen the communities that we work in and with the partners that uh seek us out and we seek to work with. Uh we're partners, we're leaders, stewards, artists, and
also we're grateful to be here before you again on a very worthwhile project. Uh a lot of the work that we do is community- based whether it's from uh provides housing both affordable housing achiev uh attainable housing or even
housing for some private developers that are looking for neighborhood designs and u continuity within certain communities. But it also has housing for institutional uh clients. Uh one being
Mberry College both on the west coast and in um Vermont and also u some corporate clients. But in all the affordable housing that we do, we have a long history 22 23
years of providing housing in variety of uh housing typologies in different scales that re- imagine adaptive reuse of historic buildings. provide supportive houses for certain uh
populations and uh focus on neighborhood design also with infill multif family mixeduse projects in urban centers and what we'll talk about a little bit is a missing middle typology which I've told the board about uh at
our last uh hearing a few months ago but for the public I'd like to just remind them that that that brought us to a collaboration with the uh Cape Cape Cod Commission for the project called Community Resiliency by Design. uh that Cape Cod Commission set out to look at
five communities as sort of a um not as model communities where they could work with them and identify parcels where housing typologies can be developed and housing can be achieved
because as we all know Cape Cod is really suffering from a shortage of housing and attainable and affordable housing in particular. And so we looked at spent a lot of time looking at these five communities and looking at the infrastructure and the existing context
and realizing that there's a lot of housing that's in the larger buildings that are integral into uh into the communities throughout Cape Cod. And you can see that this diagram at the upper right if I can get the is sort of that
scale of a single ADU in a backyard of a single family to some townhouse clusters to some walkups or town some mid-range four to six units to something that is a little larger with 12 units that is not elevator served and does not does not
appear to be a large apartment building. And so with that, these are the types of projects that we've worked on in the past. Uh Park Home in Newport, which is a 6 to 9 to 12 unit building, depending on the configuration of it. North Cove
Landing in Wickford, Rhode Island, which is predominantly town houses. And then Captain's Row not far from here in Hyannis. So the architecture for Meeting House Road is that style and then that that
configuration as Mr. Singer had previously mentioned that all of the apartments have a front door. So they're townhouse style in nature. Uh they the proposed architecture will include asphalt shingle roof lap siding,
shingle panel siding which is a composite material not natural single shingles board and batten in some cases double hung insulated vinyl windows aluminum gutters and downspouts fiberglass structural porch columns
things that you see in and around Cape Cod and Chadam in particular. This here is one of the building types that we were proposing. This has six apartments in the the main volume. A small office area off on the leftand
wing with uh neighborhood mailboxes facing this little community space that uh Mark had talked to presented and talked about. And on the north side, a small maintenance garage for the project
uh the management firm. This here is a side elevation and the rear elevation of that building. This here is the sixunit building which is predominant in the the neighborhood.
Uh this is a building that is asking for some uh building height waiverss. uh due to one portion of the building being two and a half stories. Uh it we have uh bedrooms up here on this attic level
only on this end of the building. This here's unoccupied attic uh space and the rest of the building is two stories. But what's unique about this particular site is the the grade difference. uh in particular on these buildings right here
where as Joe had mentioned before here's meeting house then there's a depression and a sloping hillside that comes up to a developable area that's relatively flat some of the variances because of the way it's calculated are a little
higher than what you would actually perceive from what would be a finished grade. This here are the two townhouse buildings. So this here is one single townhouse that's two stories, a middle townhouse, two stories, and then the
third one at the end. This here is that table of building height calculation showing where the waivers are being requested. Uh the in five of the seven or five of the eight buildings are asking for waiverss from
6.3 feet 63 6 feet 3 in uh down to 2 foot1. And again this is because of that unique condition. These are a little bit higher because of how the grade sits uh right now. And then we decided to show you a little
bit of color since that we sort of ended brought that into the discussion at the main street uh parcel. And early on it was very much our intention to uh at the RFP uh process is to bring some color to these buildings that are
more earth tones uh and a variety of from lighter brown to yellow also to a nice light white. But the detailings that you can see here is are much more restrained. They're not the uh Greek
revival with deep eaves, deep rakes. Rakes are these here. Uh and no continue continuous eaves around the along the gables, but and a little simpler porch detailing as well. So this I would think
is more post uh colonial uh and so where these rakes would be much shallower, this would be much smaller, the corner boards a little bit smaller uh that it would be a lot more stayed.
And finally, these are examples in and around Chadam of sort of that color palette that we're looking to be inspired by. And then I'll finally give it back over to Rio, I think, or
Mr. Singer. Right. Quickly. Yeah, I think that sort of summarizes um most of it. There's a there's a couple things here, I guess, um that that we didn't cover that um I'd like to to just
point out. Um this is going to be designed uh passive house and which includes being solar ready, which means um we haven't officially figured out where the solar panels would lie on the roofs. We have done uh preliminary
studies on the orientations of the buildings and facing the southern exposure where they could work and there's significant roofs where that could um that could support the uh solar which which will be necessary to meet the passive house
u goals. Um, another item um that sometimes come up that we didn't talk about was um that this would be a would open with a lottery and we would request from the state a 70% local preference.
Um 70% is usually the max that the state gives. Um it it is something that's regulated by uh the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities. Um but we've been we've been successful getting
that 70% um local preference in the area on the other on our other Cape projects. And what that local preference really is is um a preference for people who currently live or work in the town of
Chadam or have children who attend schools in the town of Chadam. And um and that would just be for the initial lease up only. After the project's leased up, there is no ongoing preference. It's people go on to a
waiting list and then it's filled by waiting list going forward. All right, that brings us through the presentation. So, welcome to move to the next steps of comments. Yep. Thank you very much. Um, at this point, I am going to read the 12
letters. I'll summarize some. Uh, the first one is from Rob Faley, Department of Public Works in Cadam. I trust you have a copy of this because it's rather technical. uh Rio and um I'm gonna read it, but I'm really glad that you have a copy of it.
We do. Yeah. So, um sent it. All right. So, this was received on September 3rd, 2025. The Department of Public Works has reviewed the comprehensive permit application. Our review focused primarily on storm water, water, sewer, public infrastructure.
Relevant comments are provided below. The subdivision plan C-4 indicates a proposed public right of way with two drainage easements. The easement closer to Meeting House Road is understood.
What is the purpose of the easement midway up the driveway? This proposed drainage isn't related to surface runoff from the road infrastructure and the town doesn't want maintenance responsibility for the large drainage
basin that primarily drains the entire development parcel. It would be more beneficial to have Penrose obtain a drainage easement for the pipe beneath the driveway through the public RO.
That way they have complete control over discharges of any or any required reporting to for the drainage basin. That's number one. Number two, sheet C-6 shows a type four accessible ramp near
the entrance on the site at meeting house road. This type of crosswalk is typically specified at the intersection of two intersection intersecting crosswalks. is a crosswalk proposed either across the driveway
or across Meeting House Road as it isn't shown on the plans. A sidewalk and crosswalk shouldn't bring pedestrians to a point where they are stranded without connection points. Sidewalk to nowhere.
Where are pedestrians directed to go once they reach the end of the sidewalk at the entrance of Meeting House Road? Number three, the turning movements for a Cadam firet truck are shown on sheet C-7. Even though a firetr is an
emergency vehicle, they should be able to stay within a single lane of meetinghouse road while exiting the site. Possibly the approach of the vehicle in the turning movement exercise
should be revised or the departing radi increased. Are there vehicles that should be considered as well? Other vehicles. Will there be bus service in this location? Number four. And there are seven. Just
so you know, there are three CBS near the driveway entrance that drain to a bioretention area on sheet C-8. If the town needs to maintain this bioretention area in any way, where is the access
point? Will the old old roaded remain intact? And can that provide a future access point? If so, an easement along that alignment will need to be provided for the town. The storm water calculations indicate that RB 100 and RB
101 remove 80% of TSS. Is this allowed for a new development under mass BMPPS for storm water management? Is pre-treatment considered to be met by flow over grass surfaces
prior to reaching the recharge basin? Please clarify. Also, in several areas, it appears as though the water lines appear to be closer than 5 ft to other utilities. Please review to ensure Cadam's water rules and regulations are
followed. Number five, the saw cut pavement patch detail on C11 should indicate that the wearing course should be milt
inches 12 in beyond the saw cut. This is to offset single vertical patches and help reduce reflective settlement. Number six, sheet C-12. What maintains? What maintenance requirements are needed for the bio
retention area other than inspection? Is this permit required or simply to support 90% reduction in TSS for those basins? Finally, number seven, sheet C-14. The town does not support the
doghouse manhole proposed on Meeting House Road to connect to the sewer main. This design begs for ongoing maintenance issues related to the operation of the town's sewer system. The town proposes two cleanout manholes in line with the
proposed sewer line. The first should be located at the property line near meeting house RO and the second at the end of the proposed 40 foot public RO. The proposed sewer line should be
connected to the main with a hard T connection utilizing 12.5 degree angles as needed. Thank you for the opportunity to review and provide comments. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach
out to me. Robert FY, director of public works. Next, we have a note from the planning board and they tell us that uh on August 28, this is just their initial comments. Um they say that they heard a presentation from Penrose on June 9th
prior to the submission of the comprehensive permit after reviewing the RFP. These are their preliminary thoughts and and they will follow up with comments as the plan set and ZBA process progresses.
Um, I'm just going to summarize this one. They want us to get, which we already did, um, peer reviews for storm water and traffic. Um, they also, uh, have primary concerns, uh, which they
discussed with Penrose August 25th, and they include the following. Test pit slash borings and percolation tests should be conducted especially at the proposed drainage infiltration area and should be included with a resubmitted
storm water design report. Um a de a development of this size cannot rely on assumptions as proposed. Next, uh they recommend the planning board um ver they recommend having a peer review completed to verify that
there'll be no impact on standing water at the infiltration site. Um the applicant's storm water design should be revised and submitted resubmitted to incorporate LID design
strategies as called for on the RFP and as submitted in their proposal. A construction staging plan should be included in the application documentation per the RFP. A traffic impact assessment was conducted but did
not consider peak summer traffic. Um the planning board recommends having a peer review completed of the traffic assessment. The land disposition agreement call for a sidewalk along Mey House Road. Um the plans do not address
this requirement. Um, we also recommend an 8 foot bikeway connector from the site to the old colony rail trail and this will allow safer passage in both directions for pedestrians and bicycles. They also would like to see buffers to
the neighbors um that are but to the north and they should they tell you that you should revise your plans to accommodate that. The agreement calls for establishing a curb cut on Route 137 that's north of the project to allow
realignment of repositioning of the entrances. Uh the comprehensive permit submission does not address this requirement. The plan should be revised to address that and this is uh signed by uh Art Sprew, chair of the Chattam Planning Board. Next, we have a shorter
note from our health agent on 92205. Judith Giorgio tells us that she has reviewed the plan and uh the property is adjacent to sewer and the sewer connection is proposed. Since this is a
40B project, I believe local regulations limiting sewer flow based upon property size is not required. The flow would be 8,250 GPD for the residents plus a small additional flow for the community
building. Approval of the flow and design of the sewer is with the department of uh public and water and sewer. The property is a zone two of a public water supply and must meet requirements for storm runoff in
accordance with um Massachusetts standards. I did not review the storm water proposal in depth. There should be they should be reviewed by the uh town engineers. Um the property will generate a large amount of waste. Ensuring
dumpsters in areas uh that are properly that are properly enclosed and sized appropriately will maintain cleanliness and prevent overflow and pest issues. Additionally, integrating a well ststructured waste reduction and recycling program can support
sustainabil sustainability efforts and minimize environmental impact. Lighting in the area should be designed to minimize light pollution and conserve energy while ensuring safety for the residents. Next, we have a note from John and Molly
Curtain, 18 Chat Harbor Lane and Chadam received on September 4th, 2025. We are residents of South Chatam writing to express our concerns with um this application. Um, while we support the careful and considered development of
affordable housing across Cape Cod, there is already a large development underway on Meeting House Road and we take Umbbridge with South Chattam again being considered the only acceptable location for such a housing project. We believe it it's unlikely the appeal
would be heard if the property was located elsewhere in Chadam. Regardless of its location, any appeal uh to wave agreed guidelines and regulations is unsupportable. South Chattam is vital in a historical part of uh the larger town of Chadam and
we strongly urge the zoning board of appeals to stand in solidarity with their f fellow Chattam citizens by rejecting this appeal. Next, we have a note from Lorraine Li, 45 Chad Harbor Lane, received on
September 2, 2025. The meeting house project is not the result of a democratic process. As a resident of South Cadam for over 20 years, I was not made a aware of this project until it went out for bids. This happened quickly
and without discussion from the people who reside in South Chadam. We were not given any opportunity to evaluate and determine if this would be desirable and make South Chattam a better place to live and raise a family. This project is not in compliance with Chattam's
comprehensive plan which defines the direction of all town actions. Uh, Cadam is a small New England village specify specifically um we have small buildings and I'm hopeful that the ZBA um will u
stick to the guidelines with building height density and open space. Now we have a note from Farrell Smith in Okonnell appears to be a law firm in Rhode Island in uh North Carolina. Um
below is the very first goal of the 146 page town of Chadam's comprehensive plan. They don't ask me to read that. Um just the one goal which says that to permit only that only that growth and development that is consistent with the
carrying capacity of Chattam's natural environment in order to maintain the quality of life in town. Chattam should retain its small town and seaside resort character and any development should maintain that not minim maintain that
not minimize or destroy it. Um it should promote the redevelopment and reuse of existing developed property rather than the development of vacant land. Bylaws and regulations should be created to ensure the intensity is maintained or
minimized never maximized. And they also go on to say that the land disposition agreement for the sale and redevelopment of zero meeting house road vest the ZBA with full authority to honor our town's number one goal. Um the
it gives the ZBA u the final approval for a maximum of 42 rental apartments. Uh furthermore, the parties agree that the proposed plans are conceptual and that there may be some revisions. Um as I write, it's not possible to
download the zero meeting house comprehensive permit application link. Um Thursday's hearing therefore cannot comply with mandatory public process because citizens do not know the content of the comprehensive permit application.
What we do know from Penrose's proposal is that it was uh their choice to seek permission for a 42 unit maximum dergating from the intent and purposes of the protective bylaw. And I respectfully urge the DBA to
enforce our protective bylaw as comp contemplated by the LD LDA signed by Penrose. It its proposed building should be downsized from 42 units maximum in keeping with maximum building height
especially when any building on this nicely wooded vacant um parcel uh is wholly out of character with the surrounding area. And this is written by David J. Farrell Jr. received uh September 3rd 2020 um five.
Next we have a note from Sylvia Cobb. Yes, community development is recognized, but why not another area other than South Chattam, an area of Chattam that has not yet to share their surrounding land. Um, we love our quiet,
beautiful, peaceful, and friendly community, and we want to keep it that way. We have enough town projects. Choose somewhere else. Let them share their surrounding land for town projects. Received September 3rd, 2025. And then she writes once again because
she forgot to include um that she has a concern for Cape Cod Commission's identification of routes 28 and 137 intersection as vulnerable as a vulnerable one to rising sea levels and rain and storm surges that citizens
should be aware um that buses and picking up children at meeting house um could be in danger including when children are in buses. I think community development uh in Chadam also deals with low-lying roads and areas as well. Thank you, Sylvia
Cole. Now we have a letter from Jonathan Pini Paloni, sorry. Uh September 3rd, 2025. This is law firm of Sen Associates uh in Brewster. Dan members of the zoning board of appeals. This office represents
Gloria Hicks, owner of 95 Meeting House Road in Chadam. Miss Hicks is a close closer with within 300 feet of zero meeting house road. The applicant has proposed alterations to the site and new access point from meeting house that
crosses over the old county road right of way. Since learning of this project, Miss Hicks has sought to engage with the applicant to preserve her rights of access, which is subject which is a subject of vital importance both to Miss
Hicks as well as the applicant itself. Due to the ongoing discussions of Miss Hicks and the applicant concerning preservation of access to Miss Hicks property and a proposed alternative access, we would like to reserve our
right to provide oral testimony of this matter at a later date. While an acceptable conceptually proposed alternative has been proposed, there are several important details that remain to be worked out. It's essential my client's
private property rights be resolved before the close of the hearing. Without such a resolution, the applicant does not have control of the property sufficiently to implement the proposed development. As you know, control is a
prerequisite to granting any permit under chapter 4A. As you also know, private property rights cannot be created, abregated, changed, or modified by any permit granted under chapter 4A. They must be provide privately resolved
outside the permit process. It's our hope that this issue will be promptly resolved prior to any vote by the board on this application. As again, we uh like to reserve oral testimony on be behalf of my client at a
later date. Very truly yours, Jonathan Palone Paloney. Next, we have a note from Erin Mincchiello, president on behalf of the board of directors, Cadam Ecumenical Council, helping prevent homelessness,
received on August 11th, 2025. the board of directors of the Chattam um ecumenical council wish to express our support for the project. Uh preventing homelessness uh before it happens is our mission. Um we've been in business for
over 30 years. Um helping provide emergency financial assistant for housing related expenses to individuals and family who work and live in Chattam to help them stay in their homes. The meeting house affordable housing projects once realized will support the
very mission we have championed for uh over decades keeping Chattam residents housed and stable and we urge the zoning board of appeals to um approve this application. Now we have a note from Lou Heb of South
Cadam received um on September 2. We understand you are not responsible for producing this project. And this is to ZBA members and that you've pretty much been painted into a corner by the 40B rules. Please be sensitive to your ve f fellow Chattam citizens who live in
South Chattam and think and feel they have been denied their democratic rights by this process and are being forced to pay a significant price so that primarily wealthy business owners, several of whom now are outofstate
corporations, get the benefits. This project is not in compliance with the Chattam comprehensive plan. You have the legal right to stay true to Chattam zoning guidelines, especially regarding building height, density, and open space. Then the process provides for
Penrose to appeal as they see fit. And uh they urge us to deny that project. Okay, we have let's see, looks like two more. Holy Redeemer Parish. Honorable members of the zoning board of appeals. I,
Reverend John M. Sulliv Sullivan register my support for the um for the project and the holy redeemer parishioners have a special interest in this project because it was at their urging that the Roman Catholic bishop of
Far River sold at significant sacrifice this land parcel to the town of Chadam for the express purpose of using it as a site for affordable housing. As a sign of their commitment to affordable housing, parishioners have requested a
sale price equal to the tax valuation and not its market value. The parcel um presents several excellent qualities for an affordable housing development, meaning house road is a state highway and is adequate for handling any
um increased traffic. The town sewer line has recently been installed. If other infrastructure development is necessary, it's the obligation of the town of Chattam to provide it for all residents. The topography of the site will leave much of the structure
screened from the street and property and nearby properties. The the board will doubtlessly hear objections um and they should think of those objections as uh ways to make adjustments um to the plan and not uh pay attention to not in
my backyard hostilities. Um and it should they shouldn't lead to the denial of uh the application and the calming good of all needs to be supported over the objections of those resistant to all change because of
uh its elitism and um at a worse economic discrimination or possible racism. President I mean that's Reverend John Sullivan. And last we have a note from David P. Holden, chair of the HR finance council,
received on uh September 2nd, 2025. In late 21 and 22, the finance council of the home home holy redeemer parish in Chadam considered as one of our agenda items the sale of meeting house property. Based on uh on that, the Holy
Redeemer Finance Council unanimously voted to recommend to Father John Sullivan and the Dascese of Far River that the land be sold to the town of Chadam for the sole purpose of building affordable housing. As you are aware, our recommendation was heard and acted
on by the town uh and closed on in 2022. The town purchased the property in November 2022. Since that time, the Holy Redeemer Church proceeded with the design, addition, and renovation of a significant portion of our church, creating a new main entrance. And now,
three years after the land seal, the town of Chadam has not effectively addressed the major need for affordable housing. Housing is a basic human need. Uh teachers, healthcare workers, and first responders um cannot afford to live where they work. Businesses
struggle to hire and retain staff due to housing related instability. Local businesses depend on a diverse and stable population. Affordable housing supports entrepreneurship, local spending, and community resilience. And yes, the schools, churches, and religious organizations in
the town of Chattam need to educate the next generation for our community to thrive. Thank you for your service on behalf of the citizens of Chattam and um the interest of our community and our congregation. David beholden that
concludes our correspondences to date. Next, we will go to the audience and take comments for up to three minutes a person. As we've done for in other meetings, we ask that you sort of form a
line over there. Um and uh we'll start with a raising of hands. Who wants to go first? Any comments? There must I mean come on. No one wants to speak. Yes, ma'am. And if anybody else wants to speak, please um get out of your seat
and go stand over there. Welcome. Thank you. I'm Carol Gordon from South Chadam and I'm probably going to echo many of the concerns of of the people here today and certainly from your letters. Uh it seems that um Penrose
wants many many waiverss uh setbacks, building heights, etc. without too much concern that South Chadam is an historic district and I don't know if you've met with the historic business district yet or have shown them your plans. Yes, it's not a back war with them right now.
I've said okay sorry okay I'll I'll state that as a question and you can answer it whenever uh all righty uh my concerns are first of all no sidewalks people going to work and school it's unsafe protection of the conservation
land uh why is there a path to twining field uh review and reconsider the height and density the impact on our water supply uh shorter buildings should uh should be next to the above letters so as not to obstruct their view. And lastly, just to
remind you that South Chadam is a historic district and uh so there are guidelines to be followed. Thank you. And thank you, ma'am. Sir, you are next. And whoever else wants to speak, please
follow the rules and make a line. Yes, sir. Good afternoon, Mike Shell Cadam. Um I just have three simple points to make. Um there's been a lot of chatter about policy uh around town on this general
subject. Um I want to note that in 2003 uh there's been reference to it. Uh the town of Chadam at town meeting unanimously adopted um the comprehensive plan. Uh there's a lot of stuff in there. I think you said
it wasund and some odd pages. Uh it's a lot of reading, but on this particular subject, the town resolved to um set a plan to build affordable housing and to
reach 5% uh of the the 5% level on the strategic on the subsidized housing inventory index by 2005, 7 and a half% by 2010, 10% by 2015. And I think by now
we all know where we are. We're at 4.81%. We haven't made a lot of progress. Uh we need to um the second point I want to make is um this property came to Chadam because the uh uh the town put out an
RFP seeking property appropriate for uh affordable attainable housing. the arch dasis of uh Fall River uh acting apparently on the recommendation of Holy Redeemer's uh finance committee um
responded and offered this property at a at a at a very desirable price. Um the town actually acquired the property through the affordable housing trust board. And I want to point out that at the time that happened, it this the
affordable housing trust board consisted of all five members of the select board and then two uh people additional people with special housing expertise. So in terms of policy, how we got to where we are with respect to the acquisition of
the property uh was the subject of unanimous approvals by both the sub the uh the the uh uh uh town meeting and uh in effect the uh the the uh select board. So I I I appreciate you. You've
got a lot of technical work. I said that the last time. I commend that and to your attention and appreciate your attention to those issues, but we do mean need to move forward uh with this project uh subject to those uh those considerations. Thanks for your time.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. You are next. Thank you very much. Uh my name is Jack Gillis. Uh our family has been residents of South Chattam for over a hundred years. Um, I'm here in support of this
effort. Uh, I grew up in Chattam and unfortunately many of my South Chattam residents can't afford to live in Chadam and this is an effort that I think with all due respect to Carol's concerns, which we agree with many of
them, should go forward. It is extraordinarily important to keep the fabric of this town available to the people who grew up here. So, I hope you will continue modifying these efforts,
maybe tweak the architecture a little bit, shorten the height of the houses, but make sure that this program goes forward. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. You just you raised your hand, but didn't you just speak?
Yep. Okay, I see somebody approaching. Very good. Very good. Uh, my name is Linda Mroy. I'm on Tanglewood Drive in South Chadam and I love to see more affordable, attainable housing, but I feel that what's being
proposed here is for firsttime renters and is there any way to ensure that after those firsttime renters leave, we will still have local preference. I don't know if that is possible or not.
The other concerns I have with this are that uh I assume the heat air conditioning will be all electric. As we all know, electricity in this town is very expensive. There's been no mention
of gas or any other provision for heat. So, that is one of my concerns. If we're going to have uh people who are low income, are they even going to be able to afford the utilities here? Um I think I heard that there's 850,000
gallons going into the sewer system every day. Perhaps I misheard. That sounds like a very large number. Um, there was mention of only one dumpster area for eight buildings. I
cannot imagine 42 rental units not filling up a dumpster in one day. And I heard no mention of anything for recycling. I did not hear anything about a pet
area. And I'm sure many of these renters would have pets. There was no mention that I heard about elevators with a 34 unit. Um, many of our Chattam residents need handicapped access which
would require elevators. It seems to me that the parking is totally inadequate. The number of units, 42 units, providing I think it was 60 some odd parking
spaces does not seem at all adequate. There was uh a slide here that said that one fire truck could get in, but if we have a fire in there is there only going to be one fire truck.
Those buildings are close to each other. Fire spreads rapidly. We have had a summer with no rain. Everything is dry. One building catches fire. You're going to need several build several fires.
You just about if you could just finish up, you have 10 seconds. And just to reiterate what uh Carol and some others have said, sidewalks are needed for the pedestrians. Sidewalks totally along Route 137. I think Penrose
said that 37 is a town road. It is not. It is a state road. Okay, ma'am. I'm going to have to cut you loose. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Welcome, sir. Father John Sullivan, pastor of Holy Redeemer, and I just want to uh not to
speak to particular uh objections, but to the general uh policy of the need to uh provide housing. we need to uh uh uh tweak the project if we if necessary to uh provide for it, but it's a natural
right. People have a right to h housing. We need to be a diverse community. We need to be a community that's welcoming to all people. and this project and other projects for affordable housing in Chattam are desperate pro uh need and I just want to address that particular
broader issue and not maybe the specifics but to uh I want to reiterate to the board that the h the need for housing for of all types in the town is a pro is a project that you need to address and need to solve. So thank you. Thank you sir. Ma'am, didn't you already
speak or or is it me? You want another minute? because you didn't use all your time. Okay, thank you. Maybe I have some time left. You do. Thank you again, Carol Gordon from South Cadam. And I just want to be clear that
um that I do not and most of us here do not oppose the project, a meeting house road project and we all respect the need for affordable housing. We just need some revision and changes to your plan uh so the project will fit into the community a bit better and and feel that
it's more of a Cape Cod representation. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak? Wait. Yeah. You were supposed to get in line and you knew that, but I'm going to let it slide this time and then we're going to go online unless anyone else lines
up. We're going to take the people online. For the record, Brian Phillips, 374 Orleans Road. Um, I guess my my first question is why uh is there more than two people per bedroom? Is that for polygamists or something along those
lines? Okay, we're going to try to keep this, you know, serious. Okay. So, and then my other questions are, um, if, uh, Penrose is, uh, concerned about, uh, the housing crisis, why did Penrose pull out of the Orleans project? And then another
we're going to really focus on this project and anything that you think is that's how we were that's how we roll here. So if you have any ideas about how to make this project better, we're delighted to hear them. All right. Well, it is relevant. Um okay. So, and this has kind of been
reiterated, but uh Chadam did not vote for this project, which has been said. Um the affordable housing trust was deregulated, so the projects didn't have to go through town meeting. and uh six strategically placed people were able to push this project through. Kind of unfair to you guys. Uh this project
would never get passed in town meeting because it is too big, bad for the environment and promotes class separation. Uh these large scale uh projects set a dangerous precedent. And kind of what I mean for that is like what is our vision for Chadam? Do we want a bunch of
McMansions and then eight or 10 of these where that's where the people live year round and can't uh acquire wealth through um equity in their homes? Again, I'm pushing for the home ownership projects. Um
and then the whole housing uh crisis, I mean, I grew up here, so all the all the houses that families used to live in are now investment properties and uh summer rentals. So, I think what we really need is home ownership projects,
not projects like this. Thank you. Thank you, sir. You are next. Thank you. Uh, I'm David Ferrell. I live at 2355 Main Street. Uh, that's right at the intersection of uh 137. Are you going to say something different from your letter?
Yes. Okay. Um, and next door to me, I have a house that I own that I rent out to uh tenants um for school age uh children there. Um,
and uh I rent it at uh much lower than market price. So, I'm not only um supportive of affordable housing, but I am um you know, personally subsidizing it. I nevertheless sent you a letter
yesterday. It was me. I can assure you I've had my law office and home at that address, not in Rhode Island or um North Carolina, uh since 1991. And I've never appeared before you. I I
am not a practitioner of land law. Um but I can read a contract and I understand that town councils put the fear of God in some of you. Um I heard perhaps a similar u pitch from him at
the uh select board two weeks ago. And I got to say I don't understand where he's coming from. I respectfully disagree with uh town council's opinion. Um the RFP that went out from the town was for
37 minimum um units. Yet Penrose has gone overboard with 42. And assuredly its long list of requested
waiverss could have been shortened had it downsized its proposal. It's over dense, over height, and under setbacked maximized development proposal.
And that's where you come in um to enforce our protective bylaw. uh just as the contract signed by Penrose fully understands you have the power to do
um and require them to amend its maximized overdeveloped profit motivated 42 units down to the 37 or so that was sent out in the RFP. And that can be
done without in any way jeopardizing the town with legal liability. Use 15 seconds if you want to continue. I think Penrose should be able to come back with something um that all of us
can live with too. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? No. Gonna go online now. Um Sierra Steve Buckley online. Welcome. Thank you very much, Steve Buckley. Uh, I'm noticing that
a little louder. Steve, if you could Can you turn your volume up? I'll get closer to the microphone. Let's see. How's that? Is that any better? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Um, so yes, um, I have a similar concern uh to the other with
the other um with both uh projects that Penrose is doing. Of course, I'm referring to the other project being the former Buckley property on Main Street in West Chadam. And that is that um my concern is that with there are many other aspects to this of which people
spoke today, but I think that there's the one about appearances. Does it look like a housing project or does it look like it fit in Chadam all along? And I noticed uh I was looking at the drawings for uh that were submitted
for today's session and I couldn't quite make out from the uh engineering drawings that talk about what kind of siding will be on the buildings. It was blurred, but uh I'm concerned that it's all going to be all clabbered,
no shingles, which as we all know from people who lived in Chadam and anybody who's driven around a little bit, uh the uh weathered gray cedar shingles is the predominant
feature of Chadam architecture. And sometimes you have clabard on the front of the house and you have cedar shingles around the other three sites, but there's, from what I can tell, there's no cedar shingles on any of the 10
buildings at the former Buckley property proposal that they have or on these. And that's my concern is that somewhere along the line, we'll it'll get lost in the shuffle and if we don't ask for it as a condition that it'll be like, "Oh, I thought you
were going to ask for that. Oh, I thought you were going to do that." you know, and we end up with uh 10 h 10 large buildings that will stick out because they're all the same and maybe one of them maybe they have gray I saw they had gray
clabard was a recent revision but to me that's not the same as some white cedar shingles. So I would suggest that the as a condition that won't cost anything more or make it uneconomical to that that the ZBA condition it so
that a certain percentage perhaps. Yeah. Excuse me. Just so you know, you have 20 seconds left, Steve. I know you probably can't see the clock. No, I I can see it. Thank you. Now we have 14. uh that they have a condition
there that there be a certain percentage of white cedar shingles and I'll settle for it even if they are synthetic because it look better than all clabbered all over as a herd of white elephants. Thank you. Thank Thank you. Who's next online?
Sarah, that's it. That's it. No one else in the room? No. Okay, we're going to take a short break and come back uh with the rest of this hearing. Okay, thank you. Okay, we are back. So,
at this point, um, what we're going to do once we, uh, reestablish our board is we're going to ask Penrose. We're going to make comments to Penrose. The board will make comments unless Penrose wants to respond to the
comments that you've already heard. Would you like to take the opportunity to do that? Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, that that might be helpful just because we might we have a few responses that might actually address comments. Yeah. No, that that's a great idea. And then we're going to see if council wants
to say anything at some point as well. Okay. Do you want us to wait for a second until our board member gets back? Kind of. That's fine. Yeah. All right. We'll take a short
We're gonna ask Mark if he sees Jenny. Mark, do you see Jenny in the hall? No. Jenny, here she comes. All right, so we're back and uh at this point, Jenny Penrose is going to respond
to some of the comments they heard and then we're going to make more comments and then they're going to respond to those. I can. Okay. I We're gonna take sort of a respond by committee approach here if that's all right. No, sure. Yeah.
Okay. Perfect. So, um I think we heard earlier comment about the historic um so on the main street we did go through the historic commission and the historic business district. Uh this site doesn't lie in either of um their areas. So
there was no um presentation to uh either uh for this specific project. Um they just wanted you to know that South Chattam itself is considered a historic um district on the I think it's on the
registry. So just South Chattam itself is historic. Whether or not you had to go through any other hoops is another story, but it is. Okay. So you just you should know that. Understood. It probably we probably didn't then because there wasn't
existing structures like there was on Main Street. Yeah. That were going to be demoed. So there's no existing structures that are going to be demoed here. Correct. Um sorry I can't read your handwriting. Uh Carmen Chung for the record with
Penrose. I think one of the um other comments we want to address with regarding to having shorter buildings next to the butters that is reflected in our plan uh building seven and eight which are the shorter buildings uh which I think is coming up onto the screen.
Those uh both of those buildings will not require any uh height waiverss. Uh I think there was a question about whether this is all electric and uh with the state uh funding requirements and the design guidelines as to the state
policy priorities with new housing that they want to support and finance. Uh these will be all electric buildings. But that's also why the these buildings are designed to be passive house and uh we have built passive house uh buildings before where the envelope is supposed to
be very tight. So that means that in the winter and in the summer you are actually not expending as much energy to heat or cool because uh air is not escaping uh because your windows are uh higher higher rating there's more
insulation uh and that will help lower uh electric bills for residents. Um I think there's also a comment about elevator for handicap accessibility. Uh and uh these buildings are not elevator
buildings because the elevator building would then be create a larger footprint and we wanted to create uh housing typology that is fitting with Chattam character. Um but we do have 12 ADA units designed in here. Um, and there
are units where you do not need to traverse u a staircase in order to um enter or um kind of go throughout your apartment. Um I think there was a confirmation from
our team that uh uh route 137 is not a state is not a state road. Correct. is a route route 20 route 137 is a old county layout that is subject to the town direction for maintenance
permitting. It's not a state highway. It is it is under town jurisdiction. One other thing for me just as Paul comes in um there was a comment made about uh fire safety and we didn't say it but all of the buildings are sprinklered.
Thanks uh Paul Antiman. Uh there was a question about siding materials being all clabards. That's incorrect. The uh drawings that we submitted for this application clearly show cedar panel shingles along with clabards.
Uh Joe Henderson. Um I just want to clarify the the wastewater flow is uh 8,500 gallons a day for the site. Um, I think it was mentioned something higher than that. And um, the I believe the DPW's letter
mentioned a sidewalk to nowhere. And the intention of that sidewalk out to the intersection of Meeting House Road was for a bus stop. It may not have been completely clear on the plan, but that was the intention of having the sidewalk and you can see there's a concrete
landing area and that's where that concrete uh ramp was obviously for any person who's handicapped that needs to, you know, access a bus or something down there. that speaking of school buses, not necessarily public transportation,
and you're going to probably need until next time to address um the other concerns that were in that detailed letter that I read first pro um the DPW letter. Yes. Yes. We don't expect you to block out answers to that right now. But understood.
Yeah. Um, one one more uh response to a comment about the inad adequacy of the parking. So, um, right now I think we're at 61 parking spaces, which is, uh, 1.45 spaces per unit, which is really in line
with where we ended up on Main Street at 1.5. So, on these projects, we originally came in around like 1.3 spaces per unit. Um and that uh is what we found from operating our other properties. This be sort of the sweet
spot what's being used. Um our village at Nasik Green um in East Ham I think has 1.5 spaces uh per unit. Out of those 65 units, as of last week, they only had um 79 car vehicles and it was fully
occupied except for one unit. So 64 units, 79 vehicles and a very similar project. Um also the uh Institute of Traffic Engineers IT for this type of development recommends between 1.3 to
1.6 spaces. So we think this sort of falls right in uh the general consensus of what's adequate for this type of development. Thank you. Okay. So well now we're going to do comments from our board. We'll start with Dave Vich.
Um, well, I I'm looking back through this, you know, the stack of materials and I've been through it all, but now I can't find what I was I was looking for. Um, I'm I'm a I believe I saw somewhere,
this could be my imagination, but somewhere in the materials, uh, I believe it was presented that the access road was going to be some type of bridge. Oh, that's Dave's got. Yeah. And I the
plan doesn't look to me like that. I'm I'm just curious what uh I'm curious about that. Wait, Andrew Singer for the recording. You you received that because you and thank you read my summary of reasoning because I used that word. Ah, that's where I found it.
And as it turns out, I was corrected right before the meeting today. They were looking at various options before, but that option was not technically feasible. And so what is before you and Joe could talk in more detail, but that was the the um earn fill that he
mentioned for the driveway. So the access on this is going to be a public rightway. you know, that section, but it's not a bridge. Okay. And so then I would think that I mean, I don't want to really get into this, but I would think that that u would have some bearing on the
question some question at least from a neighbor about the uh and the town, Mr. Failure, about the rightway, the old rideway, the old roaded that goes through there. Um, and I'm I don't know what how that is affected by this. As
was noted in one of the uh one of the letters you have, the applicant's been meeting with um miss one of the neighbors and has been uh reaching out and talking to another. So, they are working on that. Um you know, again, it's as was noted, it's it's it's a private property, right? It's kind of outside 40B, but it's something
important here. So, they Penrose has been working. We actually met on the site. I was attended one of the meetings with one of the neighbors on site. So, that's being worked on. Yeah. Okay. Good. Um, and then uh I in looking at um the uh drawings and the buildings and
and and all I'm I'm um I'm thinking that I mean I see the similarities some of the buildings on on Main Street. And it it I'm thinking that these buildings reflect that same response that you made architecturally in changing roof pitch
and lowering the ceiling height in the in the the building in the two and a half story buildings in order to uh reduce the height of the buildings. That's correct. Yes. Yes. Looking at Paul. Okay. So, yeah. So, I mean, because we're starting to hear some of the same
um questions about height and and and all and and I'm trying to emphasize that that um Penrose and the and and Union Arctics did respond uh to some of the concerns that we expressed about that in a way that brought at least some of the
buildings out. So there's no request for for uh needing uh um um word escapes me now but yeah does so and and that those buildings are the ones closest to the neighbor on the
north uh side and then the other hearing this discussion or and I in in some of the correspondents uh talking about threestory buildings and I believe that those buildings would be considered uh two and a halfstory
buildings buildings. Um Jay, would you can is is that not true? You think as long as the the floor space on the third floor is less than half of on the floor of the floor immediately below? Yeah. So the they're not threetory buildings.
They're two and a half story buildings. That is correct. Uh, and then, um, the only other thing that is I I I go around town and and think about some of this and and and
wanted also to um kind of weigh in in the same way with in alignment with some of what Steve Buckley said and I think Lee Huby in our last meeting said, I'm I don't know that
not I'm not sure uh you know I don't know about costs and things but it is fairly traditional in Chadam to use um white cedar shingles on sidewalls and and and let them weather naturally. Um,
and I don't know how costwise how that that that um fits in, but it is something that I mean I now I've heard talking about cedar panel shingles. Um, so if cedar is the material and naked weather, well, that might work. I just
don't I'm not up on the latest uh um materials. Uh, but I'm just going to I I won't I just want to say that in my mind um
especially as a as a as a transported long although longtime resident here as a transported Midwesterner, one of the first things I ever noticed in coming to New England was the the weathered cedar shingles on the
sidewalls of the houses. And the more I learned about that, the more I thought that's brilliant because we didn't have those kinds of things back in Indiana and in Illinois. We did we didn't think that through well enough. So, it's something that I always struck and found
to be uh very appealing to me about Cape Cod. And so, I would just suggest maybe taking another look. I don't feel I think that the the um composite materials can look good and they and and the colors that you've presented I think
can look very very well as well. I just thinking maybe considering at least on some of perhaps some of the back walls or whatever u weathered white cedar shingles uh um rather than um some of the other things. But other than that, I
don't think I have much more to say at this point. Thanks. Okay, Ed, might as well go this way. Um, uh, I had questions too about the the access road when I went out there. Um, I'm assuming to the south that
access road will be removed or uh, reveated or um, do you have any plans for that as of yet? And Sure. So the the intention now is to keep the access road to the south. It
would allow for maintenance of the bio retention area that you see there in the low section. Okay. And the access road to the north of the new right of way. There's there's two residents that looks like access
that road. Um, and I it from your presentation it sounded like there's negotiations going on with them, but in particular 87 um when I looked up the uh assessor's card of that, it looked like they've
owned that house for for 20 years there and they've been out in the woods and I I assume they like living out in the woods and and now um we're going to have this this project there and it looks like his right of way or his driveway
goes through this property. So, what arrangements have you made to work with this chat resident to uh make sure he has a legal right of way?
I'll take this. Sure. So, um the director Butter and then the 87 is the director 87 and was it 95 95 um both currently use that access road.
It's um both ways. You know, if they're going south, they come through this site and then they use the same access road going north. Um but with the new access going on to this site, there's really no way to continue that road. Um, and
especially in a way because you'd need to get EMS and fire trucks through there and it we would have to build a infeasible like suspension type bridge which is totally impractical. Um, so what we've been discussing with them is
um constructing uh separate driveways to direct to meeting house road instead of a shared access way. they would each get individual um new driveways from meeting house that that would lie on their prop within their property borders. Um and and so
for the director Butter um 85, there's a little there's some encroachment of it onto this site. Um so it would be shifted a little bit on his property and and then is there a pointer? um and basically follow that the
property line down here as currently proposed and being discussed. Okay. So, your your intention is uh at Penrose's cost to uh negotiate a new driveway for these two properties, correct?
Okay. Yeah. Just to clarify the word new driveways for the new properties, it' be one per per property. One per property. Yes. Okay. Um, that's that's it for me for right now. Thank you. Okay, Dave Nixon.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I'm still working on Main Street to be honest with you. Uh, it's like that's in a couple weeks. You're ahead. I'm sort of getting
overloaded, you might say. But I had an opportunity to go out and visit the site. Actually, Miss Fenwick was with me and uh we ran across the owners of that property you were talking about and that access road actually and there's still
some asphalt there. That was 137 and then it got moved closer to where the church is today and all that sort of thing. So, I don't know who owns what. And he was trying to find a nail that had put in the road. He said, you know, a while ago, and I I think as Anne
pointed out, they've owned that property for 20 odd years, I think. Where is it? Well, he didn't really know, and I'm sure you don't really know. You know, this will be figured out. But, um, I urge everybody to go over and take the
time to walk around this property and see what it is and what you folks want to do with it. It's um uh the topography is a lot steeper than we usually see and
u and that's okay. I mean it's all part of your thought process. So I I'm just not at a point where I have questions. Uh I'm just trying to hear what you have to say, hear what the folks who live in
South Chattam and other places. I know we had a couple of letters from folks on uh Chad Harbor Lane. Um the concern for this from the town actually seems to be greater than Main Street to what I've
seen. Okay, let's see. Jenny. Well, um thank you for your presentation. I took a lot of notes and I'm trying to summarize my comments. I have questions but I think I'll try and morph you can do questions today too.
Okay. Um so it'll be a combination I think I noticed or I one of the things that struck me was the management office. It's going to be in the back. It's not going to be a separate building. Can you elaborate a little bit more because the I'm thinking I'm thinking it like Mr.
Nixon in context of Main Street, which I know we're not talking about today, but we've done a lot of work on Main Street. And so, some of the key uh citizen feedback has been height, that management office, setbacks. So, I'm going to start with those three because
that was the first thing that struck me. We've talked extensively about the uh community building or the management office on the other property and this one's going to be in the back and attached to the other building. So why why is that? Okay,
that that's a great question. Um, so I guess stepping back, we you know, we typically develop communities of 60 units or more. That's sort of our threshold because at that that's the amount you need to get the efficiencies
and operations to support professional full-time management. Um and we typically include a full management building with um management spaces including offices for property manager,
office for uh resident service coordinators. We call impact coordinators um and um um spaces for maintenance workshops and um maintenance storage.
And then usually the amenities. Um Main Street is one point it was the fitness room and the community room. Now just the um community room. Um so both these projects, Main Street and Meeting House
are way below a normal threshold. Um at 48 units on Main Street, that's sort of like right on the edge. Uh 42 units here is even smaller. Um, you know, in a normal context, neither of those would
be able to support a full-time management suite and management building. Um, we were able to get it to work on Main Street. Um, and here what we envision is, um,
this project would only be done because we have Main Street. um this if there was no Main Street, we would likely this would not we wouldn't be able to take this on because we wouldn't be able to share some of the services that we do on Main Street. Like
for example, a resident service coordinator could be stationed in Main Street but then be able to use the flex office space here to meet with the residents here. So we end up maybe saving some space that we would normally need here. Um so that there's the sha
shared staffing really helps and then um what we would envision too is that residents here would be able to utilize um our community room at Main Street. So I know we have to be mindful about parking there, but that would be an
amenity that these folks that we envision that these folks would be able to share in for certain type events and be able to reserve if needed. So, so we're able to make it work because because we have the two projects together that we can overcome the
obstacles that usually prevent us from taking on developments of this size. So, Rio, as a followup to that, would it be fair to say you could flip that? Just a question and have it in this property and not have it main street.
And maybe that's not a fair question for today because it's it's a main kind of a mainstream question too. But just your your reasoning. I understand that. I just wondered if that was anything that comes to immediate mind why that couldn't be flipped.
So I I think part of how we came to this site plan is also kind of how we started this presentation. We started with Mark talking about what is the neighborhood look like and what are we trying to connect to and from there we figured we
wanted to connect to the rail trail. We wanted to connect to Twine Field and what are the amenities we can create adjacent to those spaces and we felt like from there okay we want the management space to be have eyes on one
of these kind of spaces. So that's where why we located in that way. I guess if we created the community building here instead of at Main Street, then uh this site would have uh
we we wouldn't be able to fit these seven other buildings uh on this site with a community building given kind of the constraints about setbacks and the constraints about the fire turning radius.
um then the density will be a little off because to a certain extent while they can work together they still need to be kind of standalone from the state's financing perspective also.
Okay. Um I I'm I'm just throwing that out there because density is something that we have heard over and over again on both properties. So there I think that that's a citizen concern. Um let's talk about
the setback in particular the 87 uh the the a butter to the north. Um it it seems as though uh I mean he's really he and she they're the only a butter
really that we have and they're 20 and you're proposing the the the narrowest the skinniest setback of 20 feet on that side and then the dumpsters going there. So, I just was curious why we're we're not pre providing a little more um
why there's so much pressure on 87 regarding setbacks and the location of the dumpster. Sure. So, this this site is extremely difficult site because of that ravine going through, right? Yeah.
Right. And and the most feasible area to to put that entrance was sort of where it's located. And Joe, you might be able to help me with this. Um, so it this coming in this
way didn't leave much space to be able to, you know, put buildings here with large setbacks and it would be very difficult to to have the access coming in at a different location to provide more of a setback
back there. you know, the the dumpster up here um that was originally put there just because um it was an easy turnaround for for a truck. Um and uh we we could look at maybe
putting it somewhere else if if that would be more sensitive to the neighbors. I think the neighbors uh home is right here. Yeah. So um also this dumpster is proposed was would be just like on Main Street. This would be in um stockade
fencing surrounding it. So it's not seen well you see the fencing but you don't see it's not just a dumpster placed on pavement. Yeah. There's will be noise associated with the truck coming in too. The noise. Yeah. Okay. Um I mean I I just had that question for them. I can just add to what Rio had
said is um part of it is too we're you know we want to align the driveways here just for traffic purposes right so that kind of drove this practice because I was curious about that I think that's how you would typically do it yeah you would want to line the
driveways up you don't want them offset that creates a a traffic concern I I would say so that drives the location of this entrance drive and and kind of it goes from there. Um the other thing like Rio mentioned that you know the
topography drops off pretty steeply in this direction. So the more you come um to the south I guess the more grading and you know extent of disturbance you create in this you know to the to the south.
So that was kind of the driving factor of why the driveway was here and that drove the location of the buildings. The setback is just this corner of the building. Just to note, the rest of this does meet the 25 foot setback. It's really just in this location.
Oh, that you're asking for the 20, correct? Yeah, the 20 is just a wall that's going there as well. There is a wall. Yep, there's a wall that helps reduce the footprint of our disturbance. And how tall is that? I think at the max height, this one does
get up maybe six feet at the highest. Okay. Okay. Um I would add to um there was some changes we had made from earlier iterations that those we those are now the smallest of the buildings on the property that are
near the the above those two are. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. A building a you call it. And um no. Okay. Um so I I think we can expect to hear more about setbacks. Um that
would be a comment not a question. And then um height I do think that we have as Mr. V mentioned a similar um height steepness to the roof that maybe we don't need. So some of the some of the height variances seemed
you're asking for five out of seven or eight sorry five out of eight. And um some of them are which is a lot and some of them are very tall. So I I I have concerns about the height. Um and then
landscaping. Again, we have a heavily wooded entirely wooded spot. Not no buildings. And um I know we're not going to get into a lot of detail at this first meeting about that, but um you know, I' I'd hate to see so much of that
cleared out. out. I see a few of the existing trees, but and then a lot of newly planted, but um I'm I think we I would have some comments about landscaping as we get a little further along. I think common wanted to to um respond
about the height. Yeah, I I know we're we've thrown a lot at the board. So, I just want to kind of point out again that of the buildings that we are requiring waiverss, the waiver request is different, but the actual height from
finished grade for all of those buildings are the same. So if you are taking a Lego, that Lego will be the same height for all five of those buildings, but the waiver request is different because of the grading and
topography on the site. Yeah, we're used to that. Yeah. Yeah, we are used to that. Um Okay, thank you, Steve. I guess I had a few things. Um the crosswalk you you mentioned was sort
of a dropping off point for for transportation. Um is there any thought of of maybe extending that down to the uh bike path which is the protected crosswalk across 137
so that you can cross over to the other side of the road and to a sidewalk. the um Steve, this is the sidewalk you were talking about with the uh landing spot, you know, potentially for a school bus and a safe haven for kids
to wait for the bus, I think. So, I think I mean the to get the sidewalk along meeting house to there, there's a there's a guard rail along the road and a steep slope, so you would probably be eating into that treated
area, relocating guardrails. Uh it's not impossible, but it would take a lot of um grading and more cutting of trees, I imagine, along the edge of the road to do. Okay. Because, you know, you're sort of missing an opportunity of having a
protected crosswalk there and but no access to it. Yeah. I mean, we looked at crosswalks when we first went to see the site when we responded to the RFP and it just seemed really infeasible because of the way the grade changes. And I think also um Mark just pointed out we are showing
a connection from the property to the to the south there the the the walkway um that goes to the to the trail. So that kind of what is what we envisioned as that connection. Okay. Is that shown better on a different
Yeah, I guess it's to the sort of the southeast. Um corner of the lot and then it leads down to the um bike path has the
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, one of the other things I thought of during your presentation was that um, there was talk about having one fire hydrant for the entire complex. Do you
know where the next nearest hydrant is on 137? Yeah, I I can't tell you right off hand. Yeah, we do have one hydrant centrally located. I can look into that for you and answer that. I I have some experience from a previous life with
fire service and um we pulled up there and one of those building was was on fire and we only had one hydrant that would be a big problem. Um so I think you you there should be some arrangements for you know an adjacent hydrant somewhere around 137 the ability
to boost water pressure. You might want to work with the DPW in in that respect. Um, but that could certainly be a problem and maybe something you want to try to consider. I can say that um we can add another hydrant. That's f that's fine if that's
what uh the DPW would like. And uh I did make a request for a hydron flow test so we can start the process of looking at the pressures that typically would be done you know later in the the construction phase when we um are kind
of looking more in detail at the design of the the sprinklers in the buildings but we I started the process there. Okay, good. Thank you. And then um one of the other things that and I'm not sure where you could put it is the is the dumpster location. I'm not sure the people that are in buildings four and
five um are going to want to cross walk across the parking lot every morning with their their trash. I don't know if you could have a second one someplace. Um I don't know what you can do about that, but I I think that's um
some sort of a convenience thing maybe for the people that are on that side of the property would be nice. That's all for now. Thank you. and Paul. Well, one thing uh I at least have learned and I think maybe the board has
learned is that we've got a long way to go uh with respect to this project given the fact that we've been going on the Buckley property for quite a while and we've had a number of hearings uh along that. So, I'm going to continue to digest the information that you've
provided uh and the comments that we've heard from uh the public. Um, one thing I I I was interested in hearing is that I at one point asked the question in connection with the Buckley property whether it was possible to
consolidate the functions that were in um the community building uh maintenance and uh u shared staffing and so forth with the project that was going to be coming on meeting house road. And my
recollection is at the time you said no, it was not possible. But it sounds as if that's what you're doing. No, I I think I think the difference is the nuance here is that's a a fully staffed site and this is a fully staffed site. What they're sharing is some of
the periphery services, the resident services and the community building, the community room as an amenity, but separate property manager on both sides, separate leasing assistance, separate um maintenance supervisor,
separate part-time maintenance tech, and the part-time maintenance tech might be part-time here or there, but but they're both fully staffed. Um, so the shared staff isn't wouldn't all be able to fit in that one
building on Main Street or vice versa or vice versa. But we were able to not do a So if you I think we had the floor plans I believe in the submission. You can see like we we still need these office spaces and we
still have the office spaces. that we were able to get it smaller by removing one office space. Right. I think I think at the time my question really went to the question of whether you could consolidate the functions that you were putting into the Buckley property where are were more
consign more constricted in terms of space uh setbacks and density. uh could that be uh used at meeting house uh such that you are not taking that much space on the Buckley property
and uh and you can you can uh flesh that out some more perhaps in in our our next hearings. But that was one of the suggestions that I had made in order to decrease the density uh in the Buckley property.
In any case, uh you can you can give that some thought. Um and u I'll reserve my right to continue on questioning uh both the concepts and the process. Thank you. Yeah. So um I'm just going to just pivot
on that community building over on um Main Street is front and center and you seem to be just totally stuck on having that there. It's a large building right there. And this one, you know, you have your offices, you know, just sort of in
the back in a little room. And we wanted you to do that on Main Street, and now we're seeing that here. So, we can't help but wonder, it seems to me, and I don't mean this in a in a in a negative way, but it seems like you want to be front and center over on Main Street, so people can know where to go if they want
to rent apartments. And you look very professional there. And you're not as concerned with this one because people are going to come down 137. and they're not going to pay any mind to this because they need to make sure that they're not getting stopped by the police officer that's always there and um you know and they're not going to hit
somebody in the bike trail. But when you're coming down Main Street on the other hand, you know, you've got this professional property where you want two signs and we'll talk about that next time. But you have this really big building there and it looks to me like a PR issue and we thought it was too big
and I think we we we forgot about it at this point and we we gave up. But now we're seeing this and we can't help but you know wonder how come you can do that there and you couldn't do it there. So I'm not sure if that's what Paul meant by that at all. Um I just said it in I I have a couple additional comments.
Can I just weigh in and say some of us thought it was some Yeah. Not some of us. Yes. Like um like seven out of eight of us thought that basically but um yeah some of us. Sure. Sure. But um yeah. Do you want to comment on that and then I'll a few other little
things. Sure. So Main Street is more of our typical layout that we know that works. Um and it's also the the larger size. It needed the support. Not that this doesn't need the support too. It does.
and we have some um but this one can have less space because we're able to because we have stuff on Main Street and it wouldn't make sense to reverse them because that's that's the larger project that needs it. Um here in terms of
layout like we did look a lot at having the front entrance. We always love to have the offices our our management building be the front entrance. Um there because of this topography and coming in, there wasn't really a front
entrance, you know, that people would see from the street, we ended up putting back here because uh as opposed to any of these other places because um people driving up will see directly there. We'll see the sign leasing office, management office. And and the second
most important, you know, the second reason for the management building and its location in Main Street was so that they could have eyes on everything, which is what they do here in this building. They'll have eyes here. If people go in the twine field, they have
eyes over the whole site where it would be more difficult if like here, if we put it here, they're not going to have eyes on these amenities or these amenities back here. Um, so that's how we ended up with um adding the space
into building one as opposed to maybe like a front door entrance, which which would be more typical for us. Okay. And so I'm also going to be um interested to see your responses to the public works that they look pretty intense. Um those comments and the peer
review analysis and response. Um I'm kind of I'm wondering do you agree? Could you answer whether or not you agree with attorney Paloney in terms of the fact that you really need to resolve this um driveway issue before we vote on
this? Is there any do what do you think about that? And should we can we be assured if so that you will I to answer the first part of your question I see them as separate. So I don't agree with um attorney Pony specifically. There are issues that are
there, but as he notes, that's a private property right issue. If you with any 48, anyone comes to you with a special permit and you grant a special permit and there's some issue with a neighbor, well, the project might not get built even though you granted a permit if there is another issue. I see that the
same way here. And now it's something that's being worked on. I'm confident that it's not, you know, going to be an issue at the end of the day, but I don't think it's a legal impediment to you. It may be a practical issue down the road, but I don't see it as legally stopping you. I don't think it impacts sight control and I don't think it impacts
your ability ultimately, obviously, as one of you said, you know, several meetings down the road here, ultimately voting. Um, and hopefully they'll be resolved by then anyway, and it'll be a moot point. You think you'll know by the time we vote? Well, we hope. Sorry. So, you think we know? I just had
to repeat that. Okay. Um, so we hope so, too. And then the Cape Cod Commission hasn't responded yet. Um, unfortunately. somebody was on an extended vacation and we should get that. I I chuck today and we should get that. And so I'm likely to want you to follow whatever they say.
it's, you know, I'm likely to um and then last but not least, we have height again and I see that you I understand what you mean about the grade the grade level and but at the end of the day, Chadam, you know, has rules about height
and you are seeking a 6.3 foot waiver for building six and a five uh foot 2 and a half waiver and then the 39. And it seems to me that it's only fair that none of these buildings are any taller
than the buildings that we will settle in on on 28. So if you can think about that for next time. I don't have I can't say off the top of my head what the height of those buildings are over there on 28. But I think it's only fair that
these are equal in height or less. Um so that's my opinion on that. Um and otherwise I'll wait till next time as well. Um too if I could just just respond to that last comment as um Mr. Adams said
um from the front these buildings are I believe the same height where we went as the ones at Main Street. So, if you were standing in the parking lot at Main Street once built and you're standing in the parking lot here once built and you look at building type C, you're looking
at the same size building on both properties. The difference becomes in how you calculate it. And if you remember that table, we won't get into it now, but if you look at the table, there's the calculation as per the zoning bylaw and there's the calculation as per from grade. Because of the topography and the averaging of the
height around the building, you have a need, what appears to be a need for a well, it is a need for a six-foot variance legally, but practically speaking, it's the same size building from the front. It just has a walk out. So, I just and we can keep talking about
it, but that's one Yeah, but I'm still going to want that. So, there's that. Um Andrew that has to mostly has to do with the significant drop off on grade down here which then gets averaged into the average grade
because there's this hu this very steep drop off. Yeah. But it's still a six over six foot waiver and that's a lot. And it doesn't seem fair to the people in South Chattam that they have to have the tall buildings um and they're taller than the
other project no matter how you slice it. in Chadam's definition they are. Got it. Yeah. Okay. So, other than that, anybody else have anything? Yes, please add. I would just on that same topic
um I mean you you could build Chattam's unique because it's topography um at the end of the project, not where you start, it's where you end. So Jay, I mean you could put a large retaining
wall there and then you know then that height would be reduced significantly. It's a question of would you rather see a retaining wall or sort of have a a walk out. So how about a lower building? It is the same. I just asked the
architect and it is that's exactly what you could do Mr. Act and you are correct. It's the same size building. If you bring up the grade in the back of the building, you're not changing the building at all. You're just changing the grade. Okay. But you're still looking for a
waiver of six feet. No matter, you know, maybe I'm stupid, but it just seems that way to me that legally legally you are absolutely correct. Okay. Well, that works. All right, then. So, we're going to come back on October 16th. So, I guess we'll
take a motion to Oh, do you want to make a request for October 16th? Okay, we request continuence to October 16th. Very good. Paul, I'll move to grant the requested continuence to October 16, 2025.
Uh, Dave seconds and votes yes. Uh, Ed Actton votes yes. Yes. Paul votes yes. Jenny votes yes. Steve Steve votes yes. As do I. Um, we are going to ask now for a motion to I'll move to adjourn.
David seconds and votes yes. Uh, Ed votes yes. Yes. Hall votes yes. D votes yes. Jenny votes yes as do I. What time is it? 4:37. All right. Very good. Good evening, Chadam. [Music] [Music]