tonight at 7 p.m. here in the town offices. Uh the meeting is being recorded, but we're having some technical difficulties with our Zoom now. So folks that were trying to zoom in, they're they'll be challenged, but we'll maybe be able to get the uh the folks in through Zoom a little later. Uh
we have a a lot uh on the agenda tonight. U we're going to go to our open session citizen concerns first. And the first item we have is uh Jim uh I I want to say this right. Blow >> blow
>> blow. Okay. Jim Jim Blau and Brian Ready uh DBA Birwood Construction request to place 10 square foot of patio and a 30 foot no impervious surface setback at 286 lane. Um Mr. Coach, you want to give
the commission just a little background on this before we >> um so uh let me just um pull up the uh thought I had um gone to the directory but
just there we are. So, uh, commission members hopefully recall that, um, the commission issu back in, uh, what was the date?
Uh, July 22nd, 2024, the commission issued an order of conditions approving uh, demolition and um, followed by reconstruction of the house at uh, 286
Lane. Uh it it also included a um uh a new a new dock and you know some other some other improvements around the property um with some plantings um the uh on on that plan on on the
approved plan um which I will bring up right now. This this is the plan that was approved. Um it does it does not show a uh a patio
um a fire pit shot by a patio. Um so but but now the the applicants are asking uh for permission to put in uh a patio. Um I gather the gas line is already installed.
>> Yes. Um, and so in they um they're they're asking to uh be able to put uh to do uh a the patio with about 10 ft of
uh imperous pavers uh in in the 30 foot uh no uh imperous setback from the um the wetlands. So that is that is a um you know in that's in the bylaw that that that is a setback
in the bylaw. So you know had had some back and forth conversations with um with uh the applicants and the representative Mr. uh about what what was maybe the best way to go about this. Um you know from
from the the perspective all of all parties and what we decided on was the best thing to do is just to come and have an informal conversation with the commission. Uh try try and get a sense of you know how the commission uh you
know feels feels about this and and and ideally to get to get you know a yes or no answer tonight. I mean obviously the hope for answer uh is yes. Um so um and and and also it should be pointed out
that the um uh the grout the grout is pvious. The pavers are impervious but the grout is pvious. >> Okay. So >> well thank you David. >> I I I think I'll just say I think I I think you know if if the commission were
allowed it would allow this. I mean it's certainly not an environmental disaster but the concern of course is the president you know um it would it would need a waiver uh what what um you know what is there a good reason for the waiver and if you know the commission
says the president then you know others will probably ask. >> Thanks David for the overview. Uh Brian is there anything you want to add at this point? Uh just wanted to to recap. We did spend quite a bit of time trying to uh understand and and I I'll take
responsibility for the mistake. Uh we were out of the 25 foot and I don't think uh I personally considered the 30-foot setback to be problematic. Originally we're going to use what was called plaster stone which is really a slab of of stone that's cut through and
put in and there's quite a bit of of grout area to it. The problem being the blows want to be safe there. They don't feel walking out in the evening onto split stone which is appears level but it's really not. They're going to have chairs surrounding the fire pit and they don't want to have the chair and the
grout and moving around. They they just feel much more comfortable with the uh the brick pavers that are again permeable to a point. But certainly uh you could argue which which was more permeable there. In any rate, there the
stone itself is impermeable though it has grout lines. Uh we would use the the nonpolymer sand which does not it allows water to drain through. Uh based on what I could find it is 5 to 15% pass through
rate. Uh so what we would like to do with the entire uh 250 foot patio we would do in sand which would get us about 25 ft of pvious area in the in the patio itself. Once we get out of the 30
foot we could use the poly sand and uh we're not going to do that obviously for the for the color change anyways. uh you know we felt it's kind of a bit of a gift to give us that area but it's still uh going to have some pvious area. The
other thing we can do and I don't think it's a large number but if we want over at the this is this is literally uh expanding into the 30 foot 1.8 8 ft and and the distance squared is I believe about 8 feet maybe it could be as much
as 10 that is in the 30 foot setback of the 250 foot moving at that small amount that foot and a half I don't know if oh we have it uh where you can see that 18 foot markers this is the concern where they don't want to go into the plantings
that have been done here uh they just want a little space there for a grass area for the look for the style and the uh gas line has put in. So this could be re be located 18 in. This area right here is what gets into the 30 foot. This
could come over 18 in and it would no longer be in the 30 foot. If we lose 18, this is 18 ft, but we lose 18 inches here. It's just become a narrow narrow strip. That's kind of the dilemma. Uh nobody wants to move the gas line. It's been installed. It was anticipated. We
we did talk with Dave about putting that in uh when we did it. we just didn't understand where we were in the big picture. Well, that's our our hope is that we've uh given enough to to see you you're giving us a waiver for this. There are other options, but this is
certainly the best one. And uh with Dave and and Jim and Donna, we tried to find the the best way to have a meeting of the minds. I think they're much more comfortable with a solid PA as opposed to the plaster stone, which has a great look, but they're they're really not
that secure. And I can't honestly tell you how big those grout lines and how that would add up to to being more impervious or more pvious. I just don't know. >> Okay. >> The path we took. >> Right. Well, thanks Brian. Let's uh see what the commission has for comments and
question. We'll start with uh >> Mr. Vines. Bill. >> Um I went out there Friday morning, took a look at it because I've been out there before when they were doing the house and I wasn't sure where this patio was and location was. So, I went out the gas
pipe. I think it'd be a lot of work to move the gas pipe. It's a pretty substantial pipe, believe it or not, for a fire pit, but it's to move it be wouldn't make sense. Uh the silt fence and the hay bales, uh the
silt fence and the and the silt sock are still up around where the 25 foot is at the top of that hill. It's about 15 feet or so from the patio down to the waters where the water is the elevation and that whole that hill's hasn't been
touched. It's it's it's uh natural. The I don't have a problem with the waiver on the foot and a half for what I'd like to see possibly if you could pitch the patio a little bit just so that no water would go
towards the lake. maybe set it back. >> Um, but it's such a small I mean, you're talking this much into the 30 and then it goes to nothing on the sides. If you looked at it, you I think you'd feel the same as me. I mean, I'm just one person
here, but it's common sense would say just not to move the gas pipe. That'd be crazy. But the waiver, that's why we have waivers for something similar for a situation like this where it's not much. I looked at it
too is if if we would, you know, maybe we could ask them to do a little planting or something, but I don't based on what they've got around there now. Uh I don't know what we what that'd be adding to anything. It's already natural
naturally vegetated. So, but I don't have a problem with it. So, I looked at it. >> All right, Bill. Thanks for your comments from now. Let's move right along. Mark. >> Uh, yeah, the the waiver doesn't seem like a great big deal. I hate to set precedence in that, but I I think that
that's basically non-pervious, the uh stone in the motor joints, right? You said was 5 to 15% somewhere around there. >> So, I think what Billy's touched on too was trying to keep that water from going over the hill and eroding it. We could
certainly grade that with a like a quarter inch pitch would be a sewer pipe pitch that would bring all the water back towards the home and then it could migrate around. >> Yeah, I I think that that'd be one solution. P possibly a planning like you said, like Bill mentioned, but all in
all, I I don't have a problem with it. >> All right. Thanks, Mark. For now, Mie, to you. >> I agree with Dave about setting the precedent. Um, and I agree with Mr. Vines about not
wanting to move the pipe. I mean, are you guys married to this kind of egg shape? I mean, I I haven't been out there obviously, but in terms of losing a chair or two and squaring it off, >> it's honestly more egg shape than the
radius it was because we wanted to improve that. We wanted to take that, >> squeeze out any more. Aderondac chairs are anticipated. It's not yet built, so it's a little hard to say. The fire's hot. The fire is We wanted some some room to be able to sit there on a warmer
night or a colder night and and enjoy it. >> Look, it's not the square. I just to be honest, from a from a standpoint of aesthetics. >> Sure. >> Spend some time on it. >> Yeah, it's different. It's Yeah. All
right. Thank you. >> Thanks, Ellen. Peter. >> Well, there's a lot of ways to look at this, isn't there? Um, if it was my house, I'd be in your shoes. But on the other hand, um, something was built without a permit.
So, I don't think the >> No, nothing's been built without >> Well, right. I'm sorry. Uh, the gas pipe was put in and that was not in the original plans. But putting that aside, >> you Brian Brian Brian, let's Brian
Brian, let's let's like why don't we make I'm happy to chat happy to talk chat with you. >> Let's have, you know, let's have Peter make comments and questions and then you can come back up and rebut. Okay. Rather than we don't want to get into like a back and forth. >> Yeah. So all all I'm trying to say is for for this board and for our future um
I don't like the idea that I've already built something, therefore I want to waiver. I do think that's a bad precedent. On the other hand, this is the project that I recall. Um, the applicant was happy to put in lots of
native shrubs. And back to the net environmental impact that this board, you know, is here to think about, I agree it's not a big deal. You've done some other things to the word is mitigate or improve the
environment. Um, my opinion would be I'd be okay with a waiver if we have some assurance that the the nice big trees along the shore. And Bill, you mentioned the shoreline vegetation is intact. If and David, that may be in the permit
that we issued a while back, but to me, if you maintain the shoreline integrity, plant, you know, these lovely native trees, um, it's a pretty minor impact. I think there were a couple of trees. Remind me. Was there one or two
trees that were coming down back there? >> Well, there's some on the plan. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> No more trees are coming down. >> No more. But but I think they're already there already were I think at least one or two that that came down. >> Well, is this Bill? Do you recall you were out there? There's um
>> those trees that are shown on the planet there. >> Four big love. Well, they look like big lovely oak trees. >> Those are there. >> Yeah. Or maybe there's more than that. There's five. >> So, do you see do you see the screen now? Um, so >> they're still there. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Uh, okay. There is there was one remove
existing tree. >> Yeah. >> Right. Right up here. >> But but the point is and and apologies for not having seen the site, but I mean, if the shoreline is kept more or less intact. I mean, I realize Yeah. Um,
yeah. I do have one quick question though for our agent. We went through this on the other our other lake and um we were concerned about setting a precedent. David and I don't think we want to have a big discussion right now, but
>> you may have some good ideas to help minim minimize this being a precedent. >> Well, I I I I think there I I I think something has to be given uh in return. Um I I you know I don't I don't know whether it's um you know again planting
additional shrubs in in the case of Russell Road it was sort of about you know what what was the lesser of two negatives and because it was it was squashed in between two wetlands and the commission determined that that to get
it within the 50-foot no build um to one wetland was less of an environmental impact um than putting it in the 50- but no build set back for the other wetland. So, I mean it would it would I think it would be good. It would be easier to
justify the waiver I think if something were offered in return some sort of mitig mitigation for lack of a better term. Just just my opinion. >> Okay. >> All right. You want to take the podium respond to any of these comments at this point? >> Would you come with some additional
plantings? >> Yeah, we actually did more than we were required to in terms of plantings. I don't know if that is mitigates. >> I think we're supposed to do three trees. We did five. >> So maybe that's the good faith you're looking for. >> Mhm. That helps. In my opinion, that
helps. >> Yeah. >> The anticipation of the end of the patio is to leave it completely as it's been forever. >> It falls down 15 feet to the water. It's scrub oaks. It's uh pines. It's a lot of
lot of lamb's breath this spring. I couldn't help but notice how much of that there was. But it's grown in quite well with with the plantings that are going to act to mitigate the water that does if uh it gets over the edge, come down to the edge. We're more than willing to to tilt it and not in a
dramatic way. Like I said, a quarter inch should be plenty to allow any water that comes to shed towards the home or towards a stairway. >> Could Could you get us a profile plan um just so we have it on the record? >> Yes. So, this is graded here. This is
This is all gradient. >> This area here begins I don't know if this can move over. These are the grades going down to the water, >> but >> you see it's very dramatic. >> This area here has no anticipation. You know, it's going to be natural. >> You're talking about the patio? >> Yeah, I'm talking about the patio. It'd
be nice to have a profile view showing just what you're what you're describing. It's going to drain away from the >> I mean a sewer line gets a quarter inch pitch. So, this whole thing will be set instead of dead level just pitch a quarter. You never feel it. you never see it,
>> but water will shed away from the the pond. >> Would a note on the plan? >> Yeah, I I think it it'd be good to have some kind of record if not an actual plan with a profile, at least a note saying, you know, that the patio will be um uh
>> away from the >> Yes. pitched a quarter to a foot. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's it's a fairly small pad. It's 18 ft wide. So >> be about a 4 inch pitch across the whole thing and a half inch pitch >> because at at some point
>> at some point I don't know how you know years down the line some my probably commission successors my successor will see this plan and say well you know they're going into the 30 foot you know no impervious surface you know why was that allowed um and so again it would be
good to have some kind of record of that >> I think we could do that without So David, question for you. So we're we're in having the informal discussion which I think has been good. Uh procedurally, where do we go from here at this point? Do we take a vote uh with some conditions at this point or do we um
>> Well, there's there there there's a couple ways. Yeah, I think uh even though on the agenda it doesn't say vote possible, uh you know, I don't I don't think it would be a problem for you to take a vote tonight. I think that that would ideally be the easiest way for all
of us. The other the the other way to do it is to have, you know, a formal request for an amended order of conditions submitting this plan. I I don't think that's necessary. Um Okay. >> I think, you know, you know, commission can approve it tonight. Yeah. And the
motion, I would make the condition to have a note on the plan. You know, revise the plan to put a note on it saying it, you know, it's being pitched by such and such amount away from the water so that it will drain uh in the opposite direction. Um and then uh and
then vote that motion and then and then on the asel plan, you know, submit submit an asill plan showing the patio. >> Okay. That's on reasonable. Uh, Bill, you want to make a motion? >> I move that we approve uh the uh waiver
for the patio and with the uh quarter inch of foot uh >> away from the water. >> Away from the water. Is there anything else we want to >> We're going to have the note in the plan. >> Noted on the plan. >> On the plan. And then the asbuilt I think we said something about the
asbuilt as well. >> Yes. Yes. And then and then uh at some point I'll put a copy of the minutes in the file as well. So >> minutes and >> so that that there there will be a good record of this. >> Okay. >> Good. All right. So we have a motion from Bill and second Peter on the second.
>> Any discussion before we vote? Mark, >> are you requesting a a plan of the of the quarterinch pitch or just a description of it? >> A note note on revising this plan to put a note. >> Okay, that's fine. Yeah, I I don't think
it's necessary to put a plan showing that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Second. >> Okay, we got a second already. >> Any more comments, questions though before we vote? >> I just wanted to make the comment I mean make the comment I appreciate the plantings and see saving the trees
because again we're here for a net benefit and if you had cut down all the trees personally I wouldn't have been that happy even though it's I realize it's minor but thank you for doing that. >> Really? >> Yeah, that's good. >> The original property
>> Yeah. took care of them. Yeah, enjoy the birds. >> All right. Well, all those in favor >> I >> I Any oppose? N unanimous. All right. So, we're good. >> Thank you, folks. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Next up on tonight's agenda is a presentation from Mr. Barry Moore from
NEA proposing a new trail at Russell Mill. >> Everybody can see that, can't they? I don't because I don't think I can enlarge it any more than that. >> Pretty good. >> Okay.
>> Pretty good. Yeah. Mr. Moore. >> Good evening. >> Uh my name is Barry Moore. I live at 8 Berry Drive and I'm here on behalf of the Marramac Valley chapter of the New England Mountain Bike Association. Uh so our our proposal this evening is
is relatively minor in nature. Uh it's an addition to a trail that's referred to as part of the the green what's it called here? Um the green birdhouse loop and >> let me know if you want to go to the next slide.
>> Yep. So um we're still on this page here. So we're this came about. So this part of the trail has the greatest gradient in the whole park and the whole parcel. So, the the thought behind it is is if we can
separate some of the uses, we're we're taking high-speed bikes that may be coming downhill, we're taking them off of that trail that the hikers typically are on. So, by separating them, we're therefore making the trail
system safer for all users. Um, this is really the only part in the parcel where you would have that type of speed. So if there was an interaction, a hiker was coming up up the um the main trail and a um and a biker was coming down, you have
the greatest speed differential. Um so the so really the goal for us is to get bikes off of that double track to have a a trail that is aligned to the side of it that is more inviting to riders and that way you have that that
natural separation of of user groups. Um, so yeah, we we can go to the next slide here. Can I know that's a it's a little bit small. Um, >> I can enlarge this a little
>> a little bit more. >> So, this just shows the general area of where the realignment would be. And it's it adds about a third of a mile of trail. So then the next one will actually show
you the actual proposed trail that we have. All right. So that better shows the green loop. So this is as you come in from the from the main trail on the water. It is the double track trail that goes up the main hill that goes to the
top of Old Sullivan Road. So that so that's all the existing trail. So you can go to the next page there. Again, this shows the area that we have um currently flagged out and and we've done a sitewalk with uh with people in
our organization. All right. I think the next slide shows the the actual >> so so so the yellow is is >> the yellow is just the area. >> Oh, okay. >> So it's it's a it's a it's the space between the green trail and then that
white dotted trail. >> So where is the new trail? >> It's the next one. I think it's the next slide. >> These are just some lo just locations of that show that the actual terrain itself.
Okay. So, I think it's three. >> Yep. You can keep going. That's it there. >> Okay. >> So, this is as as it's laid out. Um, I did a sitewalk with myself with the the gentlemen that
are with me tonight that that did a lot of the layout. Um, I've have over 35 years of of building trails in New England. Um, so they've asked me for my expertise. Uh, we did some minor
changes and realignments and and during my sitewalk didn't really I mean there's no vernal pools in that area. It's uh it's a steep grade, so drainage is is doesn't appear to be any issue. And we would see if there was
poor drainage in that area, we would see it today. And um as we walk out there, you know, even in the last couple weeks, there there are no drainage issues in that area. >> David, this is along Route four, right?
Or am I turned around? Route four would be on the left. >> Yeah. >> So it's Yeah. On that side of the parcel. >> Yep. And then the green goes all the way at the top to um what's referred to as Old Sullivan Road and actually right on
the Bara border. >> Well, thank you for the uh the overview. Uh I just wanted to preliminarily say that the commission really appreciates working with you folks over the years. >> We do too. Uh we we deal with multiple agencies
on the state level as well as the town level. Um and I know going back uh I think we might be almost 20 years in since we were in there cutting cars into chunks and and towing them out um that
it has been you know a pleasure working with the conservation commission um you know going back many years. >> Yeah, we we value that. It's really been great and we appreciate it and and it's a it's an asset to the whole community and the reputation of what you folks
have done out there is is very widespread. So, we appreciate that just for the record. But let's let's see if the commission's got some questions. Uh Peter, why lead us off if that's okay? >> Um yeah, sure. I I want to echo uh Chris's comment. Um
uh I walk those trails frequently and they're excellent >> for walking as well as the bikes. you guys just the way you laid them out and whatnot. Feel like I'm uh further north than I really am when I'm walking on some of those trails. So, appreciate
that. Um I guess I don't have any questions, Chris. I just wanted to point out this is part of the most or one of the most important watersheds in the town. in a recent state analysis of land that's
important over the next 50 years. Um the whole River Meadow Brookbrook, but I don't see that that has a big impact. And my personal view is it's not that far from Route 4, so you already have some noise affecting habitat.
And I do appreciate the safety uh aspect that makes a lot of sense. >> So I don't really have any comments beyond that. Thank you. Thanks, Peter. Thank you, Ally. >> Um, do we know and obviously I haven't walked through there because it's not
trails depicted in where this new one would proposed. >> It is flagged. We did flag. >> Okay. So, my question is, do we know anything about vernal pools or any like water settling in that area? >> Maybe just turn to David, our agent. David, any knowledge there? Um, you
know, I mean, there there are I'm sure there are no vernal pools on that hillside. >> Um, yeah, it looks it looks there's clearly a wetland there to the left. So, um, and that brings to my mind a
question. So, so what so what is the actual work involved in creating this trail? Are you going to have to take down trees? >> No. >> Uh, no. No standing trees. I believe there are some fel trees that we would have to remove. >> Okay. And >> yeah, we we the way the trail is laid
out, we our goal is to avoid trees, but that includes their root base. So, >> okay, >> while we're we're mapping out turns, we're trying to stay away from all that because we know what the trail will you know, you're going to get soil compression.
you know, you have a trail that's full of roots, it's not pleasurable for any user. >> What what what about, you know, any sort of, you know, regrading, surface, regrading? Um, you have to do any digging or anything like that? >> Typically, the way that those all of
those trails were built at the parcel is you you remove the the duff part of the of the soil and get to the actual like the real soil. And other than that, we just leave it and it it does its own thing just due to use.
>> Okay. Thank you. Sorry for the interruption. >> Thank you, Mie. >> Um, and then the only other question I had in terms of what he just said, obviously there's natural compaction over time, but we're not like building BMS or any crazy stuff like that or anything. No, >> no. Um, it's just more in line with
what's there. Um, obviously we do some um we do some manipulation on the trail and it's all about shedding water and and not having standing water on the trail.
So there are some some grading that goes along with that. So that I mean that's pretty much the manipulation that you that you see in the whole place and hopefully it's good enough where you don't really even recognize it. Sure. Thank you.
>> You're welcome. >> Thanks, Ellie. Mark, >> that was my concerns when uh I think Peter brought it up too was uh recognizing any cuts and fills you're going to do on the trails, but you were saying it's it's minimal. You're not
taking any materials out. You're just cleaning up the uh pine. >> Yeah, we just we just take the duff off is pretty much all we're doing. And then >> I mean, the trails there are like >> this wide, at least the ones in the woods. some other the green trail next
to it 8 ft wide >> and it's I think it's one of the original car roads that was part of the the parcel years and years and years ago. So our goal as as a as our user, we we like
to keep the trail 20 in wide. That's it. And we kind of, you know, force it into that space. 20 to 22 in So, you're not going to do any BMS like Ally was saying. You're not I know this is about speed getting around a track at
certain times. Is that correct? >> Um, well, the trail this way would reduce speed because the the trail you see that's red would be of slower nature than the green trail. >> No, no, I I understand that. But the your track, you're not going to improve
it to make it a a faster track. >> Um, right now I >> Okay. All right. That's it. >> Hey, thanks, Mark. >> Yeah. >> Okay, Bill. >> Uh, yeah, I want to echo what these guys said. You guys have been a great partner with us as far as taking care of that
site and looking out for problems as they came up. And, uh, I don't have a problem with the, uh, with the trail. I didn't does anybody want to see it. Should we take a sitewalk or is that not necessary
if you would out there Peter all the time? So >> yeah, I mean I don't know how we put this in a permit but my assumption is it'll be like the other ones 20 20 in wide roughly not BMS but where there's a curve and because of the bikes sometimes make a little bit of a you know a rut
and maybe you do slope it a little bit but you're not building a >> Right. Yeah. So, my I don't know if you want to put that in the permit, a 20-inch wide trail, but that to me is, >> you know, eliminates a lot of the questions, doesn't it, Mark? You're not going to be excavating big. >> Yeah, I'm not trying to micromanage it
either. >> Yeah, maybe maybe Barry, you could just uh send me an email basically restating some of these details. Going to be 20 inch wide. Um only going to take off the you know on of the top of the ground the what did you what layer
did you call it? >> Duff. the duff layer. Yeah. Uh just take that off, you know, no no no cutting or filling, you know, anything like that. It would be good to have, again, for the record, it would be good to have >> those those uh on on on, you know, in an
email. >> All right. And if anyone wants to do a sitewalk, we can do that as well. Like I said, it's it's flagged. Um it's pretty basic. It's pretty short compared to all the other stuff we've built there. >> I feel like if you build this like you've built the rest of them,
If I right, looks good. >> What's that? Let's have a vote then. So, we want to make a motion then. >> I move that we approve of the plan as offered at the meeting tonight. >> And we'll have that follow follow-up email >> with a follow-up email indicating a
couple of details, primarily the 20-in width and limited um excavation and no tree removal. >> Is that all right? >> Yeah. I'll second it. >> Second it. So mo motion by Peter, second by Bill. Any discussion before we vote?
No discussion. All those in favor? I. >> Any opposed? None. Yes. We're all set. >> Thank you audience. >> Appreciate your support. Enjoy. >> Enjoy and be safe. >> That's right. >> That's right. Sorry. >> Robert, >> right?
>> Good night. Now, thanks again. All right. So the next item we have under the open session citizen concerns is a meeting of the uh Sue as co-climate collaborative coming up on March 25th. Um Peter, do you want to tell us a
little bit about that one? Yeah, it's a public meeting that uh I was asked to advertise in uh conquered and the idea is to collect ideas from the public on how this climate initiative that I
mentioned a couple weeks ago. Um what it what results might help our towns. And I know I'm being a little vague and you'd have to read a whole bunch of stuff to figure it out, but I at least wanted to mention there's an opportunity uh for Chsford residents to go to a
public meeting and um I think the simplest thing is anyone send me a quick email and I'll get you connected uh with the people running that meeting. >> Are you planning to go? >> I'm undecided actually. Yeah,
>> I'm on the uh steering committee and we've had a chance to offer Chelmsford's perspective on this thing in the past. >> And that's uh what? That's tomorrow, right? >> Tomorrow is the 25th. >> Yeah. So, at least wanted to mention it. >> Although, it's kind of interesting. It says Friday um March.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Should be Wednesday. >> Tomorrow is Wednesday the 25th. So, maybe we can just get clarification. >> Yeah. How about this? Anyone that's interested, send me an email. Peter, reach out to Peter there. >> Good. Well, thank you.
>> Thank you, Peter, for the information on that. Uh, and then next item we have on the agenda again is an update on the front yard tree planting program, which includes a number of sites near wetlands. Peter, what's going on there, too? >> Uh,
I'm sorry, I got distracted. >> It's okay. >> Uh, which which topic was that? >> This is the one about the front yard tree planting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, I just wanted to mention that um uh the tree committee working with our tree warden and I think uh Courtney's here. You're working on the front yard program.
>> I've worked on a little bit. Yeah. >> And you've probably done more work than I have, so maybe you should tell us. But but long story short, um uh uh a previous uh citizens committee looking at climate stuff, uh working with Evan
Balansky came up with grant money to plant additional trees and it was decided to do what's called a front yard tree planting program. Uh this was advertised in a number of venues and it's basically free trees for 50 or 60
residents that applied. So, we did get a pretty good turnout, lots of applications. Uh, tree committee and DPW went around and looked at a lot of the proposed locations and it'll happen. >> Great. >> Uh, the reason I wanted to mention it at Concom is a lot of the trees are being
planted uh in our watersheds very close to conservation land. So, this is not a concom initiative per se, but it certainly supports our mission of natural resource protection. So, >> so, so this is tree planting on private
property. >> It is within 20 20 ft of a rightway. That's right. >> And do we uh what type of trees? >> Well, we have a list of uh 12 and there we broke it up with uh six short ones,
things like service berries and dogwoods uh for yards that for example under a power line. >> Yeah. >> And then six big ones like tulip trees and others for big tall shade trees. Okay. Is it too late for homeowners to get into the program or is it
>> I think that it's pretty close to full right now unless >> I haven't been doing the sidewalks unless some locations don't work out but I think that we're hopeful for future years. >> Future years. Good. >> This is not a one and done. >> Oh, good. So, future years, too.
>> The DPW is planting the trees, but then the homeowners would be responsible for >> Is that is that is that uh list of of homeowners public? >> Um I'm not sure. >> Not yet. >> I worked more on the getting the material out, the little graphics and
stuff. I haven't really been involved in the application. >> Well, it it would be nice to have it if it's public, you know. >> Yeah, we can work on that. Okay. >> Figure that out. >> Just would be good to know. >> Yeah. >> You know, the properties that are participating. >> Yeah.
All right. Well, thanks, Peter. >> That's great. All right. So now um we have a I think we had at least one um person from the commission go out to the MACC annual spring workshop work workshop out there in Holy Cross.
>> Yes. So Ally, what what happened out there? >> Yeah, well I went to certain um workshops for that. Uh, I attended uh the vernal pools uh replacing a culvert or a bridge and I also went to the
Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act update class as well as the flood resilience through integrated local permitting. I know that's kind of been important, so I'll probably briefly touch on that anyhow. Um but basically some key points from the flood resilience um class was that it's
dependent on coordinated local permitting. Uh flood plane development includes any man-made changes to include fill, grading, storage, and paving. Um FEMA requires permits for all flood plane development. Uh multiple
authorities regulate flood plane work to include obviously us conservation commission building department planning zoning DPW board of health. Uh the wet wetlands protection act regulates the flood plane performance standards. Uh
local flood plane bylaws apply to all NFIP communities. Any nonstructural activities such as grading, paving, storage uh still require review. uh compensatory storage required when flood
storage is lost. And uh projects not needing a building permit may need flood plan approval. And public outreach um was one of the things that they tried to hit home that public outreach is essential for residents to understand flood plane rules. I know that's kind of
been uh an important thing that we've been talking about. >> So So just a question, Ally? >> Sure. So did you say FEMA has to approve all development in the flood plane? Is that >> that's one of the notes I took it. FEMA NFIP requiring permits for all flood
plane development. I will say that that was just a point in the slide that they didn't really >> I you know >> I've never heard that ever before. So I don't know if that's new. >> Um I've I' I've never known a project in the flood plane to have to to to be to
uh be approved by FEMA. Sure. Yeah. No, no one had asked a heck of a lot of bureaucracy at this point. >> No one had asked a, you know, any followup on that because I thought the same thing, but I'm wondering if that's more of a larger project like, you know, like >> an Amazon warehouse or something crazy
like that, you know, >> like rather than an addition. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But they did release all the slide decks um for all the classes if anyone's interested or missed anything. But it was >> I'd be interested in that slide deck. >> Yeah. It's right on their website from MACC or I can send you a link or
whatever you guys want. But it was interesting, >> right? >> Thank you. >> Excellent. Yeah. Good. Good. All right. Excellent. All right. Back to the agenda. Uh now we have our report from our planning board leazison.
Chris. >> Good evening. Chris Levali, chair of the planning board. Um so our meeting this week, uh we're focusing on a lot of zoning cleanup again, um regulation
cleanup, uh preparing for the next town meeting. Uh we are starting to talk about changes to the payment in lie of for uh affordable housing. Um we are
talking about uh some changes to our pro procedures to special permits and site plans um to align it more with the uh state regulations. Uh we are discussing the at home in greater lencog report to
identify what strategy chford would prioritize and what support is needed for that. um that is focused on uh housing needs in the the greater l area. And then the other thing we're going to be talking about
is a readout from the citizens uh planning conference similar to the one Ally went to for uh zoning. Uh that was this past Saturday. Dear and I both went to that. Um and then we are also talking about
uh actually not this meeting um but in our May meetings we'll be talking about the Riverneck area for zoning. Um, one thing I did want to point out in April, uh, our only meeting in April is
on the 7th, um, for because it'll be staggered with yours and we've got town meeting on the the week that we would have our second uh, planning board meeting. >> That's it. >> Thanks, Chris. Any questions for Chris? Comments?
>> Okay. Thanks. >> Thanks, Chris. >> All right. Well, that takes us through our um open session citizen concerns unless there's uh some citizen concerns that were not on the agenda. Just come forward right now. Give us your name and address. All right, we have none. That's
good. So, moving into our regulatory hearings, the first one we have up tonight is a request for determination of applicability filed by the town of Chsford. Multiple occasions in um Courtney Thompson from town of Chsford. DBW is here representing the applicant
town of Chsford. We should have a legal notice, I would presume. So, legal notice is up and now our vice chairman will officially read the legal notice into the record. >> So, so can you see that? >> Uh yes. Yes. Uh, okay. Legal notice. Pursuant to the
provisions of the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act, MGL131, section 40, and the Chsford Wetlands bylaw, chapter 187. The Chser Conservation Commission will conduct a public hearing in room 204 at the Chser Town Offices, 50 Bill Ricker
Road on Tuesday, March 24th, 2026 at 7 p.m. to consider the request for determination of applicability filed by property owner town of Chsford for proposed work within inland bank
riverfront area 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated wetlands and inland bank at the following locations. Um and I'm just going to read the the the streets. Tuttle Road, Actton Road, High
Street, Horseshoe Road, Sandra Drive, Deep Brook, uh from Dunstable to Swain's Pond and west of Burning Tree Lane and Shore Drive. The project entails replacement of culverts. All corrugated metal pipe culverts will be replaced
with PVC. also includes replacement or repair of head walls, removal of accumulated junk, trash or debris and vegetation overgrowth blocking stream channels and drainage areas. Also by annual spring
and fall exercise of the Freeman Lake emergency relief valve. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Peter, thank you. And now, Courtney. >> Hi. Hello. My name is Courtney Thompson. I'm the storm water engineer for the town of Chumsford. I'm here with an RDA,
as Peter um summarized, for seven routine storm water maintenance projects as well as the bi-annual exercising of the Freeman Lake emergency valve. Um these u maintenance locations were originally part of a longer RDA list of projects that was approved in an RDA
from 2023. Um that RDA is set to expire, I believe, next month. and the DPW just needs additional time with these seven locations and then the um bianual exercising of the valve is just ongoing. Um so the scope of work for each of the
locations has not changed since the 2023 RDA and I'm but I'm happy to answer any questions that might come up now. >> Great. Thanks Courtney. Let's turn to Bill. Bill, any questions? >> Are you upsizing any of the culverts? >> No. Um there's two culverts that are being replaced on this list. Um they're
both corrugated metal pipe, so they're starting to deteriorate inside. So they'll just be replaced with the PVC. >> There's no need to upsize them. >> No, I don't I don't think that's um they're just they're not big box coverts or anything. They are um one is a 24 is a twoft uh just covert pipe underneath
the road. The other one is um maybe it's just one. Am I missing one? Um, oh no, the other one is a 12-in corrugated metal pipe that's just going to be replaced with with PVC. >> Thanks, Bill. Moving on. Mark,
>> do you see any places where you're going to have machines in the >> Um, no. The machines will be on the on the road. All this is really adjacent to the road. Um the one exception is the we
do have an area of stream maintenance that that um we're just looking to remove some non-native accumulated material, but we won't have machinery down in there. >> Is that is that current is that's on the screen right now that you took. >> Um and I believe we've started I think
we've done little sections of it, but it is a large area. Um the machinery that may be used would be the vac truck and it would be parked on the road again too and the suction hose would come out and then basically the crew hand shovels
into that hose. It's not like a big huge disruptive thing and that would be done during dry weather. Um there won't be any machinery off the rightway. >> Okay. You're not doing any head walls or >> um there's head wall rehabilitation. My
understanding of that is that the machines would still be on or immediately adjacent to the road, but there's no there's two head wall rehabilitations. So, they're just re rebuilding the head walls or doing um
some repairs. So, I don't think they'll be off the road. >> Okay. >> Doing anything crazy. >> Good. Thanks, Ally. >> Also, >> good. Peter. >> Uh, hi Courtney. Um, >> yeah. So, I realize we all looked at this. I had a couple quick questions.
>> Yeah. >> Um, on the drawings that you submitted with the RDA, >> um, most of the streams along with the culverts are outlined in blue and the key says that that is the
limit of um, let me read it. Stream assess. It's just called stream assessment segment. And the question I have, which I think I know the answer, I mean, we're not talking about dredging all of those blue areas, right? We're talking about the
limited, as you say, machines from the road >> just in the vicinity, whatever the distance is at at the culvert, right? We're not going to travel up and down the stream, >> right? Yeah. No, we're not going up and down the stream. These images were from a larger culvert assessment throughout the whole town. So just the highlighted
ones are the ones where we're um doing work and then that that one section that was that was up that was called out. Um I guess there's two kind of sections. One of them we're cleaning the stream. The other one we're just basically removing um debris and trash and things
like that that >> but only within let's say 50 ft of the culvert. Um, so the culvert work that we're doing is within 50 feet of the culvert, but there are two locations that
>> you figure Yeah. that we are going down the stream, but again, that's not with machinery. That would just be with shovels and the end of the hose of the vacuum. >> So, what are those locations, Courtney? >> Um, so there's the Deep Brook, the figure one location. And like I said, I
believe we've done um some sections of this already. It's just not Yeah, the work is in progress. We've done sections when we've had time during dry weather. Um, and that's just routine maintenance of removal of non-native accumulated >> material. So, it's so it's just areas within
>> it's that highlighting the >> the shaded I mean again you're not you're only doing the stream. You're not dredging the wetland. >> Correct. We're just doing the stream and we're just taking down >> are just removing some of that accumulated silt that has come from our storm drain systems because there's a
lot of outfalls in that area. um just the non-native accumulated trash debris siltation >> and that's and that's by hand >> and that's by hand with the back truck but again that'll be like it's like they're shoveling into the hose it just is to save them
>> but but the but the back truck has >> the back parked on the pavement yeah >> so so how how how long >> I believe it's a 100 foot hose we have a good stretch of hose >> okay so you can't go any more than 100 feet >> right yeah the about that I think it's 100 feet and then Um then that second
figure, figure two if you want to go to the next one is the burning tree lane removal of non-native debris that has accumulated in that in that drainage area as well. But the rest of the culvert maintenance work is just the culverts. So those are two areas where
we're clearing out um the streams or that that area, but we're not dredging any wetlands. We're not removing any >> okay >> any sort of >> So So you see where I'm pointing here? I mean, these are streams down here, but you're not going down there, are you? That's certainly more than 100 ft away. >> No, I I don't think so. I think that
right off the road in that area, there's a lot of like trash and other non-native debris that is accumulated. >> Yeah. So, that was just kind of the area highlighted by the consultants, but >> we won't be going deep in into the wetlands. >> I don't want you to be out of order. Um,
I think you're Is it correct? I think you're implementing recommendations made in a storm water >> Yeah. >> uh report done by an engineer the town hired a couple years ago. >> Yeah. This is all from the capital improvement plan. >> Did a townwide analysis and and had some recommendations on how to,
>> you know, take stuff that's accumulated, you know, out. >> Is that fair to say? >> Yeah, it's preventative measures. Um a lot of this um to try and get ahead of problems before they compound and become worse. Yeah. This is all from the I believe it I believe it was Weston and
Samson's >> Yeah, it was Weston and Samson's townwide. >> Um it's all from the stormwater master plan done by West and Samson a handful of years ago. These are just a few of the key projects from the capital. >> I mean, that's a good point, Peter. I mean, this is all being done to help alleviate potential flooding situations
throughout the town. >> Yeah. And uh infrastructure failures. >> Exactly. Yeah. It's going to make things hopefully better. >> Yeah. It's it's really we've been when I came in 2023 I think the list was 17 or 18 items long similar stuff you know 10
of them have been completed some of them we're in the process of and some of them we haven't gotten to quite yet so it's it's really routine >> and so just a point of clarification on that so so determinations of applicability are only good for three years and there's no provision for an
extension um so this this will uh the three years on this one will be up next month. So that's so that's because it can't be extended, you know, had to be essentially a new RDA calling a renewal. So that so that's why Courtney's here.
>> Okay. People were wondering about that. >> Good. And then >> can I I had one other question, Courtney, if you'd humor me, please. Um could you describe the removal of vegetation? You mentioned that a couple times, but other times when you're
describing the vac truck, you didn't mention it. What What are we doing? >> Any sort of vegetation that would be removed, we're not really removing vegetation as much as non-native accumulated debris and sedimentation. Um, but if we do come across a pipe
that's really choked out with excessive overgrowth, more so than any sort of like natural overgrowth, um, then that would be removed by hand. Um, I don't think that is a foreseen problem at at these locations necessarily. Sometimes
those can become a problem, especially if a pipe is really blocked up. It's been blocked up for years and then there's just a slow water trickle and wet area and then becomes really inhibitory growth there. And we would clear that, >> thin that out by hand. Um, I don't
believe these locations h have that. >> Yeah, >> but I could. >> Excuse me. What about the banks? I mean, is it really just the stream channel? >> It's really just the stream channel. >> Not so much the banks. >> Yeah, we're not really We don't really want to mess with >> um the banks unless there's
>> um trash, things like that. We clear out any sort of non-native debris that has accumulated. And the reason I ask, by the way, is I did a deep dive on this whole topic in the wetland protection act world and it seems that the best guidance for all the town goals, the DPW
storm water goals for flooding and our goals for habitat is don't strip the banks even if it is non-natives because then you've got some erosion problems and whatnot. I mean, it is an issue if you got non-natives, but that's why I asked is >> yeah, we're not stripping like invasive
plants. the crew doesn't really, you know, they're not really trained on on that necessarily. That would be like a different project. This is more like >> non-natural, I guess, would be like accumulated debris material that is that has come from the storm drain outlets. So, yeah,
>> thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Thanks, Peter. >> Uh, this is a public hearing, so if anybody from the public has any questions or comments, uh, please come forward at the podium and we will entertain those now. All right. Right. I see no public input. >> Uh sir,
>> question. Uh >> and I know in the last couple years you've had problems with flooding down at the golf course. Is this supposed to help at it down there? >> Um I don't know. I'd have to look into that specifically, but it would it's going to it's going to
create a lot more capacity in any areas nearby. So if if it's nearby the golf course, then it >> is that the golf course right here? >> That is the golf course. Oh yeah. So yeah, it's going to clear up and kind of get that area functioning more as it's intended to function. So it's presumable
that it could certainly help. It definitely won't hurt the golf course. It would it would provide more capacity in that area meant for drainage. I'm not sure if it I'd have to go back and look and see if we looked in into that in particular, but it's definitely
providing more storm water capacity nearby. So >> thank you. >> Yeah. All right. Um I think we're ready then to close the public hearing. Um could I have a motion then to close the public hearing? >> I move we close the hearing.
>> Okay. >> Second. >> Okay. Peter on a motion to close the hearing and Mark on the second. Any discussion? All those in favor of closing the public hearing. I any opposed none. So unanimous on the closing the public hearing. And then this is a request for determination of
applicability. I think we're looking at what a negative two and three. >> Yes. Yes. Um, and with with the same conditions as before, um, I would just I would just put in the additional condition, which not sure why it didn't go in before to say that heavy machinery
is restricted to pavement. >> Good idea. All right. Uh, do we have a motion then to >> So move. >> So move by Ally and a second. >> Second >> by Peter. >> Oh, second. Yeah. >> Okay. Good. Any comments, questions,
debate? All those in favor? I oppose. unanimous. Thank you so much. >> Thank you guys. Have a good night. >> Thanks, Courtney. >> Uh next up in the hearings is we a notice of intent filed by the town of Chelmsford for five pond street um hard
pond. Uh Tony Rapuchi from our town of Chsford DVW is representing the app in the town of Chsford. Uh Tony, we got the floor. >> Well, the hearing notice. >> Excuse me. Not yet. Not yet. We have a hearing notice which is up on the wall.
Our vice chairman will now read the hearing notice. >> Thank you, David. Pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act, MGL131, Section 40, and the Chumsford Wetlands Bylaw, Chapter 187, the Conservation Commission will
conduct a public hearing in room 204 at the Chumsford Town Offices, 50 Bil Ricker Road, on Tuesday, March 24th, 2026 at 7:05 p.m. to consider notice of intent filed by property owner Town of Chumpsford for proposed work in 100 ft
buffer zone to bordering vegetated wetlands and inland bank Hart Pond at 5 Pond Street. Further identified as assessor's map 124 block 468 lot 15. The
project entails creation of an ADA access from the Bruce Freeman Rail Trail to the Hart Pond Beach and playground um by constructing ADA compliant pedestrian
curb ramps and asphalt walkways, storm water management infrastructure is included. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Peter, for the legal notice. And now over to Tony for an overview. So, uh, as identified first, hi everybody. Um, Tony Ruchcci, the town
engineer. Uh, it was identified in the town's most recent open space master plan that open spaces such as Hart Pond were identified that the town requires ADA access improvements. Uh, ADA access from the Bruce Freeman Trail to the Hart Pond to the Hart Pond playground were recommended as part of that scope.
Working with the community development director, we applied for a grant in June of 2025. That grant was uh given to the town in December of 2025. as part of that grant for the ADA compliance because we're working within the buffer zones that required the wetland notification and the NOI filing. When
we're doing our due diligence on this existing site, uh looking at the ADA areas and where we'd want to put in the um imperous area, uh we realized that the best idea would be to remove impervious in certain areas so that way we could have a net negative balance.
And so we end up with about 37 less square feet of impervious area after if this project is approved and we move forward with construction. Most of that is at the end of Pawn Street. We uh reached out to uh Chief Gary Ryan from the fire department to ask to remove that extra asphalt area that leads down
to the hydrant and replace it with something that's a little bit more uh pvious. Uh none of the driveways and none of the road or any access on Pawn Street will be restricted. This is all the area that's before the um Jersey barriers barriers. Uh once we looked at that, uh the assistant engineer Trevor
was out doing the investigation. Um someone had noted that there were some drainage issues. So, we had camered the line. We came the existing drain line. It's in four different materials. It's collapsed in some areas. So, as part of this project, we thought maybe we would look to update that. When looking at the grading and redoing the ADA areas, the
ADA parking is underwater most of the time after storms. So, looking at the pipe that needed to be replaced, we realized that we want to do some type of drainage to correct the ADA parking if we're going to have all this new ADA access throughout the the area. Unfortunately, in looking into that
path, I looked through about 20 different um options uh BMPs through the stormwater handbook. Only two of them really stuck out to me or jumped out to me as viable options. There's an extremely high groundwater table out in this location. The site is very flat and the separation between groundwater and
the elevation of the parking area is about 4 feet. If you need 2 feet of groundwater clearance for any type of infiltration, it basically got ruled out. The only area or the only thing that I thought about was the infiltration trenches. This doesn't require there to be any separation. But because this is a parking location, if
there is any oil spill, gas spill or something along those lines, we would never catch it. So in lie of that, we're recommending or we're proposing two catch basins. These would be deep sump catch basins, 4ft sumps. These sumps would be in the groundwater. Uh they'd be installed on crushed uh stone. The
then they would have the pipes coming up. Those would be above the groundwater table. There's no requirement for a minimum clearance between that pipe invert and the groundwater. So, putting those two catch basins in, we could put in a new drain manhole on the pipe would want to replace. And then we get the water that is pooling and puddling that
is being pushed towards the playground in the ADA parking location just into the pipe. And then having minimal 25% TSS removal. It's not great, but it's the best I think we could do in this location. And then it would uh replace the pipe in kind, which would be a 24-in HDP or PVC pipe. Uh, and the elevations
would not change. So, I believe it currently it should be on the plan, but I believe the invert or the outlet is 195.6. It would be the same elevation. We're just going to replace it in kind with a doghouse manhole to be installed on top of that. That would be the inverts for the catch basins to tie into it. Uh, all
of that work takes place outside of the 30 foot or the 50 foot, excuse me, no disturb. It is within the 100 foot uh buffer area. Uh on the plan itself, we are having a HMA walkway bringing us down to the playground. We've also been looking at what's called a MOI mat.
These are these blue mats you see on beaches that allow wheelchair access and and folks to get down to water. So we're going to have look to install the HMA ramp short of any flood plane elevation. I had the FEMA of flood maps. To me, it looks like around 199.5. This would be
in our contract to be confirmed by the contractor and not to go beneath or below that elevation with our HMA asphalt and the MOI mat is a 16 foot would be extended if we think we need more would end up looking to purchase second one just to get someone down to the water. Those are removable though. So those would not be there during the
winter or the spring. It only get placed out for the summer and then get picked up in the fall stored at DPW. I think that's everything. If anyone's got any other questions or something, let me know. >> Good. Yeah, great overview. Uh good. Uh, jumping over to Mr. Kums. Anything, Dave, you want to add?
>> Uh, yeah. Um, so, so I had a couple questions. So, you answered the first one, Tony. Why you can't do any subsurface, you know, infiltration drainage here because the ground water's too high, which makes perfect sense. I mean, you've got hard pine right there.
Um, so, so the pipe, the drainage pipe right now currently drains what? Uh, so behind there's a culver that goes under the Bruce Freeman Trail and I believe there's a pocketed wetland location that's in there that collects behind the gas station just with runoff and then it
makes its way into the pond. >> Okay. So, so yeah, I mean it's it's this pipe essentially drains into Hart Pond. So, so um, so you're going to be adding more runoff into it from the two catch basins.
>> There would be a minimal amount would be added to it. uh the catch basins with the 4ft sump and in those two locations. We're not looking to collect the entire parking lot. It's really just the area behind the high point which located here on the map is roughly around where this
pavement area is. There's like a break and so you have some water that runs down and then curls and collects in these two spots but the remaining of the parking lot that drains out into the back is still going to drain out to the back. It's really looking to try to get the drainage out of the ADA area. And then this location that's just adjacent
to the playground, a lot of mosquitoes and things kind of nest in that location. So I think it just be an overall better experience for anyone that goes. >> So So I guess I guess the the the bottom line um question is so is is the additional drainage that's going into
the pipe and then into hard pond. Is that is that going to have any uh is that going to lower the water quality? I mean it's is going to be lower wa water quality that's going into the lake with this >> drainage. >> So the way it functions now is it just
puddles until it slowly infiltrates into the ground. So there isn't any separation or there's no media material or anything that would take out any type of TSS. >> You're talking about in the parking lot >> in the parking lot. And so just by having the >> So that's not currently going into this >> it's not going into the pipe but just uh
you said about the the wershed area itself and so that is going into the groundwater which is clearly making its way to heart pond and so just removing 25% of the TSS removal and if there is a leak or oil or spill or something that makes it to the catch basin through our our general maintenance and we'll have one of the hoods in there we at least
could prevent that and then report it and then would have uh Courtney and go through and would would have it cleaned up appropriately. Um, so there would be some improvement to it, but as far as uh adding flow to that location, the 24-in pipe has never had an issue with the overall flow that's going through the
pipe. Uh, it just as we were doing the camera investigating, realized that it seems to have been repaired multiple times in years past. And uh I I don't like seeing square pipes when they should be circular. So we'd want to replace that while we were over here getting construction done. >> That that certainly makes sense. So, so
I mean in in your professional opinion there there's no significant degrag degradation in the quality of runoff going in a Freeman Lake or a hard pond? >> No. >> No. I think the catch would just add a it's a small improvement for those two locations. Again, it's it's not great.
It's not perfect. It's not the best solution that could ever exist, but it is something that we could fit into this location and it is a small improvement. >> Okay. Um, and and just one other question that's really outside the scope of the conservation commission, but we do have a member of the land trust board
here tonight and because they hold a CR on this property, they will have to grant approval. Has the trust done that yet? >> Yes, they have. >> Okay, good enough. >> So, I have no more questions. >> Great. Thank you. Some good points. Uh, jumping down the end here. Bill, Bill,
comments, questions? >> I like the plan. I think it looks good where you where the pipe goes out into the pond. How's that finished off at the end? >> Uh, so right now it's an open-ended pipe that just has a couple of uh some like crushed stone that's there and we'll just replace it in kind >> rip wrap at the end of the pipe. >> Yep.
>> Okay. No, I think the plan's good. I mean, there's not much you can do there. The water table's too high. >> It's It's very low, very flat elevation with a high groundwater table, >> but it'll help the somewhat what you the problem with the big puddle. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I'm good.
>> All right. Hey, thanks Bill. Yeah, Mark, >> uh that pipe that's going from the the 24 in the uh plastic pipe, what's the coverage going to be on that in the parking lot? >> Uh so at its the lowest cover is about 2
feet. Uh for the HDP pipe, it's recommended 2 feet. And we get that uh right as it's getting point to the location. >> The lowest cover is right in this location. >> Uh you have the BM coming off the Bruce Freeman Trail. Uh, and this is the lowest location in the parking lot. It's
about two feet recommended for the HTP. >> Okay. You you don't have to cover that with uh concrete or anything to reinforce it. It's No, >> no. Just have a two foot minimum coverage. >> Okay. >> That's the advantage of a pipe material versus something that's infiltrating is you don't need to have extra material on top of it. Just the minimum for two
feet. >> Okay. All right. No, it looks fine. You did a lot of work here and hopefully it's going to be an advantage to what it was before. I'm good. >> Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Ellie. >> Well said. Thank you. >> Thank you, Peter. >> Tony, question. The existing pipe and
the proposed new pipe originates in the wetlands that you mentioned, I guess. Was that behind the gas station? >> Why is that wetland being drained into Freeman Lake via a pipe? What's the logic for that? >> There is there's a granite culvert
that's under the Bruce Freeman trail. Uh I would assume that when that Bruce Freeman trail was installed, that water was making its way. So they installed that granite culvert. It's um miscellaneous pieces that's just getting the water underneath that then uh converges into that pipe. That pipe is buried underneath the burm in a manhole.
>> Historical history. That's that's the answer. >> But that honestly is a really good question, Peter. >> Well, it's very pertinent because my other concern I would recommend uh have you thought about talking to the board of health? this beach closes
uh periodically because of E. coli pollution and sometimes I believe that can come from dog poop. So if we're taking making a direct pathway for dog poop in this area into the beach, would
the board of health have a question about whether that would increase beach closing? Because that's kind of what happens with dog poop, duck poop. So by making it ADA accessible would increase dog poop. Is that the question? >> No. By putting the direct discharge. So
in other words, right now stuff on the playground that let's I don't mean to be gross. Let's say there's a piece of contamination on the playground of any kind, including even fine sediment um or you know lawn chemicals that probably not used there. Um right now when it
rains that stuff infiltrates I think into the ground and then it travels probably through the groundwater you know 50 100 feet to to the lake and groundwater is considered or you know the the the sand filtr that is a filtration what we're doing now when it
rains hard and stop me if I got this wrong the the junk on the playground is going to flow into the catch basin. No, >> no, >> no. It's only the area that's in the the pave surface. So, the the elevation >> that is
>> uh back here behind these trees and these rocks, this area does not will not go into the drain. >> Oh, it's still going to go to the left. >> Yeah. This is only going to be collecting what's up in this location. Everything back here drains down into the back. >> Oh, okay. So, so the the >> Okay, got it. So, it's
>> But a little bit of the parking lot will be going in. Yeah, but I mean, you know, it's less than the whole property is is the point, >> but but are you I mean, so I mean it's a possibility that there might be, you know, dog poop >> there will be a parking lot. >> There will be
>> and it will end up in the lake, but it probably does already when it rains hard >> and probably compared to how much the geese leave probably pretty insignificant, >> right? And and the challenge here and Tony, I'm sure you've thought about this, but when I look at the lake and contamination, right, there's all kinds
of storm drains and other discharge into the lake. And so the question we cannot answer is if this does slightly increase, of course, you're you're suggesting maybe it's not the pollution in the lake. So I I don't know, but it's probably tiny compared to the whole
perimeter of the lake because there lots of stuff washes in. So my question is, you know, if there was an incremental increase of bad stuff into the lake, that probably pales in comparison with the
total volume, but it's right at a beach that ends up being closed frequently. So to me, it's kind of we don't really have data to assess what I'm describing. Um, so yeah, I'm not I don't mean to >> I'm trying to think on on on what the
the exact question is. Um, because if you're saying if there were uh dog debris or something that was either put into that location behind the gas station, there's no walking trails behind there. So that's someone releasing a dog to a location that not necessarily supposed to be. >> Um, and then if you're talking about the
catch basins with the hood and the sump, uh, that would actually get caught in the catch basin and then we would we would pull it out when we did the vac. >> The solids would be caught in the catch basin, right? But little bacteria in the water would go through the catch basin. >> What what you would have to do is you'd have to go out there right now and take
an average storm and test the amount of ecoli coming out of that pipe. We're not going to do that, >> right? We're not we're not going to do that. And then you'd have to do an after, you know, a post construction test >> out of scope. >> We could certainly add signage for cleaning up after waste if there aren't
enough that are over there already. Is that something that may be able to help in that location may have more traffic? Yeah, that's kind of where I'm going because that that has come before this commission, the question of contamination. >> I like that idea. So, more signage to try to, you know, mitigate the risk. >> And we're talking about the dog poop.
>> Yeah. >> Later on tonight. >> Yeah. And that happens to be coming up a little bit later, too. >> Except I counted 19 signs visible from that parking lot this afternoon, which kind of was driving me nuts. Something like >> Yeah, it's a little bit much to read.
>> Came here for a lake, not signs. Okay, no more questions. I just wanted to think that through and I don't know if we have any obligation or the DPW to bounce us off the board of health, but I >> I can certainly reach out to >> if that's easy to do. It might be a nice
courtesy. >> Sure, I I'll reach out to >> see if they have any concerns because I'm sure their goal is to keep the beach open, right? >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Just one more question, Tony. So, I assume DPW is going to be hiring a contractor to do this. >> It would go out to bid. Yeah. Perced. Okay.
Good. Good. All right. Well, this is a public hearing. So again, anybody from the public, if you have any questions or comments, just step forward, give the give us your name and address, and we'll uh be happy to hear those comments. >> All right. Uh no public comments here.
Anything else from the commissioners? Uh >> when did you plan on doing this? >> So unfortunately, it has to be done by June 30th of 2026. So once getting we get the approval of the NOI, I'm working on the procurement documentation now to go out to bid to tie those together. So
we could have a bid opening hopefully by mid to late April. Construction in middle of May till June 30th. I don't think it'll take six weeks. Just that would be the anticipated timeline. >> It's still pretty tight. >> It is tight. >> It's a very good project though for the town. >> Yeah. You know, tight.
>> Good. Anything else from commission before we have a motion to close the public hearing? All right. All right. Good. Do we have a motion to close? >> I move we close the hearing. >> All right. Peter on the motion to close the hearing and seconded by >> second. >> Ally on the second. All those in favor
close. I any oppose? Unanimous. All right. So we close the public hearing now. And this uh in front of us is the uh uh notice of intent. All right. So we'd be looking at um you know an order of conditions and typically we want to see we've got our standard conditions.
Any special conditions? David, you >> I think standard >> standard >> is a pretty is a pretty simple and straightforward job, you know, at the end of the day. So, saying just a standard order. >> All right. Well, then let's have a motion then for a standard order of conditions. >> Yeah. I move we approve the NOI with a
standard order of conditions. >> All right. Peter, second by Bill. >> Any discussion? >> No discussion. All those in favor? I. Any oppos? None. Unanimous. >> Thanks, Tony. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for all your work, Tony. >> Appreciate it. >> All right. And then that takes us down
to the last item under our regulatory hearings and that was the notice of intent that had been continued from New England Power Company with respect to 100 Ecuador road. Uh David, I think we're looking at a continuence request on this.
>> Yeah. So um we only just got the um the response to our peer reviewers initial comments back uh from the applicants uh engineer at the end of last week. Uh, I forwarded them immediately to the
commission's peer reviewer uh to respond to the responses and um I just just got those back today. I haven't had a chance to uh review them at all. Um so uh you
know I I I suggested well I mean I I really said to the applicant you know we this really has to be continued to November or April 14th and they agreed. >> April 14th. All right. So, we'll have a continuence then without testimony tonight. If we could have a motion to that effect.
>> I have a make a motion to continue to our next meeting April 14th. >> Have a motion by Ally. Second by >> Peter. >> Peter. Any discussion? I I do have a a procedural question and tell me if this is >> going too far off the reservation procedurally is our goal
>> I mean we want the peer reviewer and the applicant to sort of reach agreement and advise us the thing complies with the storm water standards is that kind of where we're that's where we're going right >> uh yes >> they don't have to agree they can identify the disagreements which they
already did >> right yeah that's okay yes that In theory, that's correct. So, >> good. We'll see how it pans out. >> I'm good. >> All those in favor? >> I >> I opposed. None. Continue. >> All right. So, that takes us through our regulatory hearings for this evening.
Now, we move on to our discussion phase. Uh we have some continual business and I think we can jump to land management now and we can do um our conservation site update from the commissioners. I can just jump in. I was
out today at Crooked Spring Reservation in North Champsford and and actually the uh the trails were looking really good out there. Really good. I was really pleasantly surprised. Uh it looks to me like volunteers have been out there doing some cleanup because I expected to see a lot of trash and a lot of stuff
out there and it was looking um really good. There was um you know, the pond itself was high. There was a lot of water going over the dam on the pond. I saw a a blue heron out there flying around. It was really pretty. and some ducks and stuff. So, it was um yeah, it
was looking good. Crooked Springs. So, anyway, uh Bill, you want to give us some uh your update? >> Uh Oak Hill, uh they put the uh traps in for the beaver at the dam. I actually ran into the guy up there one day when he was checking the traps. He thought he had a
beaver. He's he's got a camera uh trail cam and he saw a beaver and a skunk there. But when he looked open, pulled the trap out, it wasn't there. So, I don't know if since then if he's caught the beavers or not, but he had pulled some of the sticks off the dam the day
before and it was all put back together that the next morning. So, they were pretty fast. But, uh, other than that, I don't know if they've done the, uh, testing on the on the old dump yet or not. >> Uh, no, they haven't started that yet, but but I think just just to go back a
little bit. So, um I uh the the day the day after the last hearing when Christine was here about 40 Swain Road, I I got uh uh a request to sign off on an application for a a beaver permit um
in that location. So, uh you know, >> we were just saying things have been quiet, >> right? Yes. So, you know, it's it's not the Conservation Commission's land. Um, you know, we we brought up the concern and so I wasn't about to, you know,
argue with DPW or say, you know, let's let's look at whether we can put in a beaver deceiver. I just signed off on it. So, I think I think that was the right >> I think they were worried about erosion from the dump backing up >> and that's and that that that was all legitimate. We brought that up at the
hearing. So, but they didn't waste any time. >> No. So that that's uh >> the the if I if I could just add the the groundwater issues we discussed >> at an old landfill >> is a big deal. If you're concerned about any legacy contamination, it just
changes the patterns and without a big analysis of the wells and whatnot, you don't really know what's happening. So I can understand, you know, the logic and just >> Yeah. >> eliminating that question. >> Yeah. Because that water's backing up quite a bit. >> Yeah. It could be, you know, who knows
what's really in the landfill. I mean, >> right. Um, so that's all for Oakill. Um, at Kulis, uh, town's been doing a lot of work still at Kulis, taking rocks out, burying rocks. Um,
I was up the quarry today. The granite sign will be done next week. I've spoken to Joe Ericson at the DPW. He's going to help install it uh, either next week or the following week. We need to just need a good day to do it. Um,
at Sunny Meadow, they were taking apart a handicap ramp over there. So, uh, John Ray, the friends of Coolis, uh, there's a at Culis, there's a, uh, a walkway across the area that gets wet sometimes, and they wanted to replace what's there.
So, they're going to take a section of, uh, that handicap ramp from Sunny Meadow. They brought it over to Kulis and tomorrow morning they're going to take a look and see to how are they going to get it up the trail to where it's going to go and they're going to rebuild it. So there's good uh stringers
on the uh on the handicap ramp. So they're going to use that and whatever else they can use. So they're working on that. A lot of stuff going on there. Um >> haven't heard any more about the fence. >> Um >> the fence the fence the fence and the guard rail. >> Yeah. kind of the last thing that we want to get done because they're going
to bring trucks in with loom after they're done with the rocks. They're going to loom that field and seed it and they wanted to do that in April. >> Okay. >> So, was I talked to Joe about that. He says he wants to just wait till that big work's done before we put the guard rail and and kind of get that in.
>> Well, that's that's good to know because if our defense contacts me and said, you know, we're we're ready to do the fence now that they need to hold off. What I'll do, I'll talk to Joe Ericson and I'll get back to you as far as with their timeline. I know DPW is getting
real busy now with other projects in town. So, >> where they had some time to do work at uh Cool in the winter, >> uh that's that's going to go away soon. So, they were up there the other day with a grappling uh truck and tractor
and they moved all the piles of invasives that the volunteers removed from different areas. They made a pile and they're going to burn that uh shortly, too. So, once they burn that, they bring the loom in, seed it, then we'll get the guardrail up in that. So,
I I'll give you an update after I talk to Joe and get his kind of uh sense of his timing. >> Okay, great. Um but other other than that there's the volunteers are up there every almost every week weekend uh pulling evasives out and doing work. Uh
one of the uh John Ray uh I forget what town he went to but he uh he got some vernal pool literature and and nice signs and he put one of them up on the kiosk so people can look at it and explains the vernal pool what's in the vernal pool >> and we're right in that season right
now. >> Right. Right. So, uh, yeah, a lot of things going on out there. A lot of help from people, a lot of help from the town. So, >> that's it. >> Thanks, Bill. Mark, anything? >> Uh, nothing new really out at Redwing. I I didn't go by there today. Usually, I
like to come by in the morning before I come to a meeting, but I I'll make it tomorrow. >> All right, Alex. >> Nothing new. Um, picked up some trash over there, but that's about it. >> Okay, great. Good. Yeah, Peter. >> Uh, nothing specific on Thanksgiving forest. Uh, John's not here. I took a
stroll through Russell Mill Forest 4 days ago and didn't see anything astray. And um there's seven woodduck houses along that stretch of River Meadow Brook and at least one of them has a customer as of today. >> Okay.
>> So, we'll look forward to Jeff's report on the ones that are >> and it's the right species. >> Wood duck. >> Okay. >> Right species. >> Right species of wood duck. >> So, hopefully that'll have some benefit. >> Good. One more thing. Yeah, Bill, >> one more thing I forgot to mention on Culis. Uh, I've mentioned before, we're
doing a handicap walkway and that's part of the plan to get that the engineering's being done on that to get some of that installed before we put the guardrail up. And so, it's all a puzzle putting pieces together. Okay. >> Now, I know the town has uh
>> just purchased or in the process of purchasing a it's like a a wheelchair for trails. >> Yes. And uh we want to keep that in mind as far as our areas that we start looking towards incorporating some
handicap trails. And uh so that this thing this uh wheelchair is going to be on loan from the library. So you take it out like you take a book out. And uh it's got >> How long can you take? >> It's three wheels. I'm not sure if it's
all doped out yet or not, but the wheelchair has two arms you manipulate like this and is one wheel out front. And uh >> so we have to keep in mind on our properties that we start looking towards
doing these handicap access areas like I mean this this uh wheelchair this device is actually supposed to be pretty much all terrain. You don't really need special uh accessibility like we usually think of it for handicapped access.
>> Upper body strength I think is >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's it's really meant to be to be able to go in places where you don't normally think of. >> Yeah. >> Comment. >> Dave has a comment. >> Coming Dave >> Dave Sperry 12 Long View Drive. Uh Chunford Land Conservation Trust. Uh
we're getting involved with the grit chair from the library. It'll be one of the library of things uh that you can check out for multiple days. It follows some other towns programs. Uh initially we're going to set up a training area
over in Bartlett Park. So you can check it out library, take it over to Bartlett Park, try the various hills. will mark things about what the grades of the slopes are so people can get a feel of it, how to stop, how to turn. Uh, and then we're going to try to come
up with some kind of rating system based on Bartlett Park and Bartlett Wood lot and then be able to transfer that to the other trails in town. So, if this is a a green trail, you know, you can go so far. Blue, it's a little tougher.
>> Uh, and have black diamond somewhere. >> Black diamond. >> Yes. Uh, but the chair needs a little more room than ADA specs for doing some turns. It's a little wider. It's built built out of mountain bike parts.
>> And it's also got a canal levered caster wheel up front. Uh, that may not take cross slope very well. So, that's why we're going to have the the testing out and the the training and workout track right there at the library in Parllet Park. So, just to keep you up to date on
that. So, so if I get calls inquiring about the grit chair, I can refer them to you. >> Uh, refer them to the library. >> From the library? >> Yeah. >> But, but it sounds like you know a lot about how it operates. I Well, I guess you'll know more after it's tested, >> right? It was the purchase order for it
went out last week. So, be probably a few weeks before it's in. And then we'll have playtime out there. Okay. Library and a few other people that want to come along. >> Is that going to be a public event? Uh >> probably the first one won't be because we'll be doing really stupid stuff. >> Okay.
>> But eventually, yes, there will be a public event. >> Okay. >> What are the logistics going to be to rent it? How do you >> The library already has a well area they call Library of Things
where you can rent tool or borrow tools, extension cords, saws, uh and they're going to house it there. But but I think it's up to the user. They'll have to provide their own transportation. They'll have to be responsible for actually, you know,
>> Correct. put. So you don't get a trailer to bring it to you. >> No, it's it's a mountain bike that's designed to be taken apart and put in a car. >> Oh, okay. >> Uh so the idea is Yeah. A helper can come along and assemble it at the library so they know
how it goes together. Then disassemble it, put in the car, >> drive to wherever they want to go, get out, put it together, and take off. >> Okay. >> Thanks. >> Be a good experiment. It can also go in the water. >> Really?
>> So the al the other idea is people can borrow it for taking out the heart pond, go down the ADA ramp and into the water with it. >> Oh. if it gets stuck. >> So, >> that's going to take the library's problem.
>> It will take hand strength. You are getting the option to put uh assistant handlebars in the back for somebody to help push along, but there'll probably be lots of events where we try to take it various places, even Thanksgiving forest to see if you can make that. >> All right.
>> That hill up. >> Well, we uh we look forward to having further updates on this. >> Definitely. Yeah. See, very interesting. Thanks, Dave. Okay. All right. Uh, so let's see. We've gone through Peter. Uh, >> and yeah, just um Dave, do you want to make any comment? Uh, Warren Pole has
been um well, I've reached out to Steve Mat, our Stewart, and we're Stuart and we're chatting. Um, more to come there. And David, did you want to mention anything about the various Warren pole? >> Well, I'll I'll I'll just give an update on the latest. Commission members, I think recall a few
meetings ago, the commission approved a live staking plan um to um well for Oxbow to to develop one. Um I forget did he did he actually present it or not? >> We all
so so um I forwarded that to the trust for their comment. um they they were a little bit concerned about impacts to the view and reminded me that the CR does require um that the town uh maintain the meadow. I think they're
all, you know, perfectly legitimate concerns. So So we we we had a meeting uh here. Uh Peter Peter was there. I think there were four four members of the trust were there. So we we talked
about, you know, um you know, possible approaches. This decided was that that we would look into well, we would we would hire the town would hire a landscape architect to come up with a plan that um you know, little uh create
a natural design for, you know, the the the placement of the planting. know um that it doesn't look like it's constructed or doesn't look like the Berlin Wall. Again, it's it's some, you know, looks like a natural landscape. Um I've had uh an initial conversation with
a um a landscape architect about that. Um and uh he he he needs to know a budget. Um so, uh this is this is going to have to be CPA funds. And um I I spoke to Paul today and he said that
well the CBC has authorized up to $25,000 in in expenses from you know CPA funds without having to go to town meetings. So >> So that's guess that's what I'll say the budget is. >> Yeah. It'd be good to avoid town meeting.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, so the next the next step is for me to get back to the landscape architect, tell him, you know, what our budget constraints are, and then he'll get back to me with a proposal. I think I think sort of the general plan is to do like three options
um for this design, you know, sort of like the Cadillac option going down to like the bare bones. So, uh we'll see how that goes. Yeah. C can I add a simple way to look at the meeting that we had with Dave and others in the land trust? The goal of the landscape
architect was don't muck up the view. But I think everybody agreed that it's important to do some habitat restoration stuff. Just make the keep the sightelines, you know, don't put a 40ft tree somewhere that's going to block, you know, the money shot.
So that's what led us to the professional landscape architect idea. >> The land trust team was well maybe maybe they recommended it but it was a good idea. Everyone thought >> excellent >> do the right thing. >> All right.
>> Good. All right. So uh back to our agenda. So we've covered our war and pole update and we've got uh we already talked a little bit about the Oill Beaver situation. Let's turn now to the complaints about the volume of dog waste being left in reservations. >> Yeah, hearing a lot of complaints,
David. >> Yeah, so I'm I'm definitely hearing them. Um I I guess it's been a tough winter in that regard. Um so I I guess you you know the sort of the two facets of the problem are um that the the dogs
are just going on the trails um and you know it's not even being picked up by the owners. The other the other facet is that well the the the owners are picking it up, putting it in bags, then just leaving the bags there. Um I did I did
forward you one email I got about uh lime quarry I think it was. >> Was that the one from the medical doctor? >> Yeah. >> And other other sites too. >> Yes. Um >> was concerning about you know just health you know health issues health problems coming from this situation.
>> Yeah. I don't think it's something the commission can just ignore. Um I mean it's it's just clearly it's it's really bad and you know there are a number of concerns uh involved with this. It's not it's not just aesthetic. Um but you know there there definitely are some
potential health issues involved here. Uh you know but it's obviously it's not clear about how exactly to solve the problem. Um, you know, certain certainly one way would be to install more cameras, more trail cams and parking lot
cams and see if you can catch people in the act and uh then find them. Uh, you know, that that has a number of practical difficulties. Uh, no doubt about it. Um, you know, another another approach is
just, you know, have town staff like staff at DPW go around periodically and clean these sites up. That that obviously has difficulties as well. So, it's certainly a bit of a challenge, but
I I think it needs to be addressed. You know, people, you know, the people that have called me are just really upset about it, and understandably so. I you know we you know that the town brags about you know all the conservation land there is and how nice it to use it is. I
mean this this this really is is putting a um you know a bad name to it. Um so >> is there one place is worse than another or >> well I've got I think I've gotten more more complaints about line quarry. Um so
I actually haven't >> How about a sign that's some kind of sign? You know, there's probably signs down there now >> on the There are signs on the kiosk. >> You need a different You need something that's gonna catch somebody's eye. >> Yeah. I don't I I don't know how much good that's going to do. So, I I don't know if you want to set up a
subcommittee to come up with it or maybe I can talk to, you know, town officials about it and see what they if they have any suggestions. >> Well, I have something to I have something to add. So, uh, I did a deep dive this afternoon, me and Chat GPT,
and did sort of an analysis of how we're approaching it in Chumsford compared to other communities in Eastern Mass >> and and I don't know if we need a subcommittee. I could dig this out and send it to everybody, but basically what the big brain in the sky said was, "Our
program is typical of other communities and it is a problem." And so the difference between what we're doing and what some of the more stringent communities are exactly what David mentioned is more public outreach and education.
Uh secondly is enforcement and you know whether it's the the animal control officer or you know cameras or but without those things you know without some sort of enforcement it's it's a tough nut to crack. Um, so we
could have a conversation built around kind of what other towns have done and what we might do. But it does come down, I think, to some sort of, you know, let's use the word enforcement and education. And maybe one other quick thing, Ally,
that strikes me. Ally pointed out that well, Courtney Thompson and the DPW people in fact >> and and and maybe you can explain what that is, but The communication that I've seen from the town to date has been dog waste
pollutes our water. That is not exactly what at least the the the the doctor that wrote into us was saying. They were talking more about direct public health impacts like if you step in it. So I mean there's so
maybe the messaging in town has been more like water quality and maybe a lot of people can ignore that. But I think we're, you know, we could talk to our department of health for some feedback, but I think uh, you know, it's more than just the stuff might end up in the water when it rains. I think it's a bigger
health hazard. So maybe that's the basis for some sort of outreach education. So, there's a bunch of ideas and >> I'm thinking I mean I I don't think we need a subcommittee per se, but I just wonder Bill maybe you could just meet
offline with David and come up with something you can talk about with him and come back next meeting some concrete steps we could >> well consider. I go to I'm at uh Coolers's every day I walk that. I've seen it uh once over there where there's
an issue like that at Oakill. I've not I've seen a few instances over there, but not like if you think if you say the Lime Quarry maybe the maybe we stop pick one spot, put some signage up. I mean,
it's just my opinion. Put some signage up that looks different than that the usual sign that's there. Say, we have some blah blah blah issues with this. Please be aware that, you know, just kind of put it in people's heads cuz I mean, it's ignorant. People are ignorant. If they leave it in the trail
you're walking, you got to be careful. I mean, in the winter time, >> granted, you're not going to the snow is deep. It's kind of almost hard to pick it up or for some people, but it's I'd start with Lime Corey if that's the
worst place at this point. >> Yeah. And one thing I read that >> and Warren Pole seems to be I've been out there too and >> yeah, >> it's a little issue over there. >> And and one thing I read I think Warren Poll's okay, but we should take a fresh look. One of the lessons learned in this little analysis I did was that it's
really important to make sure there's a supply of bags, some sort of sign that's really clear, not just pick up your dog poop. Um, supply of bags, very clear signage, and a a trash can, which I know we don't generally like,
but that was the elements of of successful program from other people's experience, other towns. Well, that was my question because I know in some of the larger kind of cities like the Medford area that out that way, they have those green
receptacles. Um, I mean, obviously you don't want to promote the collection in certain spaces if they're not emptied, who's going to be responsible for it and all that, but I mean something along the lines of that because I mean signage I don't disagree with, but you know, do people read, how
much text is on it, >> right? >> All that. And then, you know, to Peter's point, I had sent I had responded to David's email with um what Stormwater had done. And I think to your point, that was more geared toward towards Storm Water because they got the grant, so they were the ones that put the
literature together. Um but I mean to kind of what everybody's saying, animal excrement is inherently dirty, right? Um I mean there there has to be something we can do though. >> Well, maybe maybe I'm saying lime quarry. I don't know.
>> Sure. What if you if you had one of those trash containers and a in the little bags to go with it? >> Try it at one site. See if it >> makes a difference or not. >> You know, see people do it. Or you may find that there's more of them in the woods where people just throw them,
>> right? Because again, then what do we do if it gets full and I I've seen, you know, >> I think it's the vice chairman who's responsible for emptying those. >> I mean, I think it's not the conservation agent. to your point, a saturation of one area, it'll certainly
help um to see what happens with it and then kind of go from there. >> And and I I think the other thing too that from what my reading is that our we have fines in the bylaw. >> Well, it's mass law. Yeah. >> And and there's fines in the bylaw, but if you don't enforce that, it's no, it
doesn't do any good, >> right? So maybe the sign would say something like a reminder that there are fines and to and I I don't like this at all, but >> I think we get those signs >> the sign and but something about camera surveillance or
well I'm just reading what other communities have found. They've gone down the road we just talked about and it didn't work >> right. >> You do have to make it easy >> everything we just talked about. But if you don't have some sort of, you know, animal control officer periodically or whatnot, but it's almost impossible,
right? Because you're not gonna, >> right? >> It's different than I mean, we have a similar problem, I think, with the leashes, off leash dogs. Well, that's sort of easy to identify if somebody wanted to play policemen, but you know, the dog poop, I don't know.
>> The worst the people who put it in the bag and leave it are worse than the ones that don't do anything about it. Yeah, there about there were about 10 of those in the first quarter mile of Thanksgiving forest >> really >> three days ago. >> Do do you think we we don't have a >> a resolve for this probably in the next
month or two. Why can't we just put up signs that say this site is electronically monitored >> facial recognition software >> just anything that just makes them think? We don't expect them to, you know, everybody jump in and clean it up, but makes them think.
It's a simple it's a simple thing to do >> and I'll and I'll speak I'll speak the town manager I'll speak to Donna in health I'll speak to Christine maybe they have some ideas >> right >> yeah I mean the board of health's newsletter >> it's a public health you know >> it is yeah as much as anything it is a
public health >> that partnership I think would be important >> I don't have a hard number but to date there's about 4300 licensed dogs in Chsard and that's not including the ones that we don't know about and then people coming and So, yeah. Yeah. All
>> right, Bill. >> I just want to ask Dave, does the land trust have a lot of problems with that on their land dog? >> Uh, just bar woodlock. >> And it's not too too bad. >> No. Is it Do you have a problem with
people leaving bags and all that or just not picking up? Not too bad because if they're doing the loop to the rail trail, their garbage cans on the rail trail that they can put the the bags in, >> right? >> Usually when they're garbage cans,
there's a lot fewer bags out there. >> I think that's important. >> Yeah, that's definitely something to think about. >> Who empties the barrels on a rail trail? DBW? >> I don't know. >> Who emptes those barrels, Dave? >> Could be.
>> Could be DCR. I think DCR does that. I'd have to look at house pizza where the trash barrels are. >> Lots of dog poop is heavy. >> All right. Well, that's some ideas. Let's follow up again next meeting.
>> Okay. >> See if we make any progress, you know. All right. Uh David, gap analysis. >> Um so, yes. So, uh, expecting what be the final draft very shortly from the
consultant. Um, we've, uh, staff has had, uh, at least two meetings with him to come up with this document. Uh so the plan has always been or at some point it it became that when when that is ready
we'll have a joint board meeting with commission planning board and board of health to give the opportunity to give the consultant an opportunity to present it the boards to review it ask questions. Um that meeting is right now
scheduled for May 5th. uh th uh is that Tuesday, May 5th at um uh 6:30m one of these rooms may maybe this one. >> Okay. >> You know, if if you can't make it, I
mean it's it's not, you know, um a catastrophe. Um but let me know if if you are planning to attend so I can >> I'll be there. >> Good. and and and as soon as I get the the the draft document, I'll forward that to you.
>> Yeah, I'd like to attend that one, too. >> Okay. >> But I mean, it's it's important and it's it's it's great kind of figure out who plays what position and kind of who does what. >> Yeah. No, I I I think we made a lot of progress. Good. I I think we've got some I think we've got we've well, the
consultant um has taken the input uh from us and I think has come up with something that's pretty good. >> Excellent. Yeah. >> What was the date again, Dave? When again, >> what was it? Yeah, let's make a note of that again. >> When was that date? >> May 5th
>> at um 6:30. >> All right. Good. Great. Thanks. >> That's that that's very exciting actually. You think about it. It's been a it's been a couple of years, but remember >> Yeah. >> all the questions we had in this board a couple years ago. Who's doing what >> exactly? >> What are we supposed to do?
>> And yeah, there was a lot of potential for things to drop between the cracks. Good. All right. Good. >> Anything else, David? >> No. >> All right. We have a minutes here in front of us. We have our minutes from January 27th and uh we've got five pages and that
meeting wrapped up at 8:16 p.m. tonight. We're going past that, but a lot on the agenda. So, just take a moment and just like kick a quick look at January 27th minutes.
I noticed we had a status on the large snowman that was out at Russell Mill Reservation. I'm afraid that snowman's no longer with us. >> Maybe his nose left his carrot nose. >> Wel Mill Pond was frozen like four or five days ago.
>> Really? >> Was Was uh where were you? Crooked Spring. The little pond >> Crooked Spring was completely iced out. Yeah, I was surprised. I thought I'd see a little bit of ice. Actually, there was a little bit of ice on one corner of it, but >> Yeah, it's probably off Russell Mill. It was >> Yeah, >> I think it was off near the You know, it
was some of it was missing, but a lot of it was still there. >> Yeah. >> All right. We have a motion to approve the minutes. >> Move. Move >> by Bill. Second. >> Second by Ally. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. >> Any opposed? None. Unanimous. All right,
we're all set. So that takes us through that agenda item and now we're like uh our next meeting is coming up on April 14th, 2026. >> Looks busy. >> Looks we're going to have a bit. So just to warn everybody, we got John coming back, right? So
>> full strength and perhaps a new a new member joining us, but we won't speculate yet. But >> what was the other thing you said first? >> What's that night? A lot going on. >> There's a lot going on. David says there's going to be a heavy agenda. So we're busy tonight. >> Can you give us a preview? Uh well u got
uh three uh NOIs um couple couple of new houses off of Chestnut. Do you know where that is? >> Mhm. >> Um so uh then then we've got um New England Power is submitting some big new
NOI for some some work on the distribution line. Um and what was the other one? The other the other one was I think construction of an ADU. Um so and and there's still time for additional filings before the
>> What's the deadline for filing? >> Uh that'd be Monday. >> Monday. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Our first ADU. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting, I suppose. Yeah. >> Well, there in these two new houses, I should say it's two new houses and an ADU. >> But then there's also going to be a
separate one for an ADU. There might be some active interest in these coming from I think so. Well, there there definitely there definitely will be for the Chestnut Lane one. >> Yeah, >> I've gotten a lot of calls from neighbors asking what's going on up there. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. And we may see that before the
planning board gets a chance. >> All right. Well, good. Well, do we have a motion then to adjurnn? Move >> by Bill, second by Ally. All those in favor? I. Any oppose? Unanimous. All set. Thank you, everyone. Good night.