ladies and gentlemen, it's now 7:00 on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. I'm calling this meeting of the Ch Street Conservation Commission to order. My name is Carl Bishoff. I'm the chair of the Conservation Commission. We will be following the published and posted
agenda. The meeting is both in person and through Zoom. Uh in the case of the Zoom not working properly, we will continue the meeting in person. This meeting is being broadcast and recorded by Chsu Teledia and will be available on their website and on YouTube. And we do
have a quorum. We're down two members tonight. So we're um we're going to be a busy crew here. Um we do have a lot in our agenda. So, I'm going to ask again um that we keep things um to point on to point and try to move move forward. Uh
but at the same time, let's uh let's do it do a good job tonight. So, the only adjustment on our agenda is just to notice that the applicant for 100 Ecuador road has requested a continuence to our next meeting. So, if per chance
you're here for that hearing, that is not going to happen this evening. Um, our next meeting is January 13th. So, first thing, is there anyone in the room who has any questions or concerns or wants to bring something to the attention of the commission that is not
on our agenda? I don't see anything there. Okay. So, first up is a discussion. Mr. Jeffrey Brem from Meisner Brem Corporation waiver of bylaw setbacks for construction of a new single family
house at 181 Proctor Road. And uh Mr. Brem is uh setting up here with some some presentation stuff. So I'm going to ask Mr. Brem if we can keep it short. Um we don't we as I said we have a lot on our agenda and um um we'll listen to
you. I don't know what we'll give you for feedback. Uh I'm inclined to just listen. >> Sure, Mr. Chairman. My name is Jeffrey Bram and I will be as quick as I can. I have a very complicated issue. I'm going to try to simplify it and actually let's go right to the chase. I'm going to ask
the discussion tonight is about a waiver. I know you don't do waivers very often, if ever. So perhaps we could uh at the end of this create a subcommittee to go more in detail and dive into some of the details because it is a little bit unfortunately complex. Mr. Gary Han
I know was on the commission when this was discussed. I'm pretty sure Mr. Vines was. Those are the two that aren't here. I'm not sure if anybody else was here back um when we started this. >> Mr. Gibbs was >> Mr. Gibbs was great. So he could help uh bring us up to speed. All right. So I'm
here representing Terry and Valerie Murphy 10 181 Proctor Road. This has a lot of history, this property. Uh I'm going to try to go through it real quick. And I do there's all the file is that thick. So, it's huge. Uh, I'm going to try to skip through a lot of it and
we'll come back. Again, this is we're not expecting any decision tonight. Just kind of bringing you up to speed. So, the two lots, Mr. Murphy owns one of the houses uh on the adjacent lot here.
Bought the two lots from Arthur Bentis across the street back in 19 88. Sorry, 1986. December. uh in 1987 he proposed a plan back then amazingly the conservation commission approved he
applied on day one on day two they approved it and gave him an order of conditions house after speed back then in 1987 so it's filed on September 21st he was approved the next day and he started construction on the house there were always two lots back in 1987 those
two lots met the zoning of 1 acre there was no requirement for wetlands back then that changed in 1991 1. As you know, I have a long piece of paper here that talks about uh the status. I'll skip all that. Basically, he always thought he had an extra lot, paid taxes
on it. Taxes were pretty big for 24 years. Um then he came back came to apply for a property uh development in 2012. So, I'm going to jump all the way to 2012. We came here to talk about it
several times and the request was why don't you go get a variance from the board of appeals and try to move the building as far away from the uh the wetland as possible. So, we did and when they granted us the board of the board of appeals granted us the variance in um
don't tell me I lost it in 200 I had it here I believe here it is 2000 August 2012 August 30th that was filed at the registry it was recorded and it was appealed by the neighbor
thereupon began a long process that ended short term. It ended in November 2018. So that's five years later the court process and that included the actual court decision and then an appeal
to the appeals court and that ended in 2018. So why haven't we been here since 2018? because the court at the time determined that the lots merged. Um in 1991 you changed the regulations and required a certain amount of wetland uh to be allowed on
the lot. 80% of lot had to be epund. Neither of these lots met that determination. So the court decided in 2018 uh sorry 2013 and then it was uh appealed and they agreed that the lots were merged uh for purposes of zoning.
That means that if you I won't get into it too much with you, but if you have a lot that is non-conforming, but you also loan an an adjacent lot under the same name, other words of Ali and Terry Murphy, and it makes it less non-conforming. They automatically merge
by law. And that's been around. It's the merger doctrine. It's not statute. It was around for I don't know 50, 60 years. Everybody knows it in my business as the merger doctrine. Well, that changed last year. uh under the housing bill that the
governor passed and so that's why we're here that changed and I'll give you the reference real quickly. MGL chapter 48 section 6 was amended in the acts of uh two 2024 chapter 150
merger no longer applies if under certain circumstances. So the certain circumstances are the lots have to be at least 10,000 square ft. These are well over that. 40,000 square feet. Um they have to have 75 ft of frontage. Both of these lots have that. And so these lots
unmmerged u by law uh this past spring. So uh so now the the lots are back as able to be developed and we know if we go back for the variance that whole process is going to start all over again. So instead of going to the board of appeals for variance, this plan and what you
have in front of you, that's the plan that we brought back in 2012. And you see in this plan, can I speak up? >> Yeah, you're there's a mic there. >> Oh, great. Back in 2012 when we were with this board, we did require certain waiverss back then as well. And we
applied for that. You said, great, but do whatever you can to get closer further away from the wetland. And we did. So, we were 17 ft to the to the road here, which is obviously less than a 30. Uh, we were there's is a 30 foot line. We were 32 feet here, 45 ft to the
building, so we're slightly needed the waiver there. And you were good with that plan. You said that's fine. And we asked for a waiver of 10 ft to the property line. Like I said, the board of appeals granted it, but we're stuck in court. So getting away from the waiver from the property line and meeting the
required setback of 25 ft, we have a building. The other condition on this merger thing is the building has to be >> the building has to be less than 1,850 ft. So they basically said you could do it but keep the building smaller and try
to help out with lower cost housing. And that's what Mr. and Mrs. Murphy will do on this. So that the finished area will be under 1,850 square feet. And what you'll see, and we'll be talking about this further, but I've gotten as close as 30 feet or as far away as I could at
the 30 ft instead of the 45 on the other one, which makes sense. I lost the 15 ft from the variance. So I meet the variance. I don't need a board of appeals anymore. But now we're going to come and talk to you about uh hopefully giving us the relief we need. You are allowed. Now, I know you quick, so I
have a lot more to say, but we'll reserve that for another meeting. Uh, and I appreciate your time. You have a lot to uh to cover on this, and you probably want to go into some more details, verify what I said, and so forth. But under 1875F
of your regulations, there are ways that you can issue waiverss. uh there has to be demonstrated a substantial hardship to an applicant and desirable relief may be granted without substantial deterance to the public good or without nullifying or substantially degragating from the
intent of the bylaw and I will show you that's why I was asking maybe for a subcommittee I could show you photos and pictures of where the building is and how it meets that criteria I won't go through that now we'll do that for an application but I think we can meet it but I wanted to bring this up to you
tonight so you know what we're doing perhaps uh understand it a little bit more and perhaps if you think uh subcommittees in order to go into the details uh would like to do that as well. So that was pretty quick.
>> Y okay I appreciate that. Um David, do you have any comment? You had I know you had had some discussion there um on this. >> Um so just just uh first a question Jeff. So the order of conditions that was issued in 1987 was for the existing
house. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um so uh you know so so the um the the the Z the ZBA uh way back when the ZBA did grant a
variance to the side setback. It was appealed by the abutdder. >> Correct. Um with and and uh that appeal prevailed in court, >> went through a full court process hearing. I testified, others testified. We originally won. It was reconsidered.
We essentially won part, lost part, but the critical parts were lost to make the project go forward. Um parts related to standing and other legal issues we won, but other parts we didn't win. And so the the biggest problem was the court
determined specifically that the lots were merged. So even if we won other parts, we were not able to go forward with the project anymore. >> Um so so it wasn't appealed. Neither the judge nor the applicant appealed it. >> The applicant appealed it went to
appeals court and they affirmed the decision of the superior court. So, so now, so now, so now that the lots are unmerged, um, they're they don't have to comply with any other aspects of zoning except
for the 10,000 square feet and the 75 ft of frontage. >> Oh, no, no. They still have to meet the minimum zoning of the town, which it still does. It has 40,000 square feet. Uh, it was a lot that previous to that. So, at the time that it was unmerged, it didn't have to meet this the wetland
requirement. So yes, there are certain grandfathering preservations with it as well. >> Um, >> but it still needs to meet the building setbacks. We can't just put a building anywhere we want. >> Um, >> so zoning still applies. >> But but but what but why doesn't the up
plan requirement apply? >> Um because it wasn't there in 1987 when the lot was created. >> Well, I I don't know. We we might have to get some additional information on that. Okay. I I have no other questions. >> Okay. So, um does anyone have any
questions? Um I I I'm not sure I'm ready to go for a subcommittee at this point. Um I think um I'd like to see if you're going to submit I I assume you're going to submit an NOI or an RDA. Uh >> yeah, absolutely. I just didn't know what order you thought it would be best
if if you weren't going to take this up at all. I mean, there's some discretion here. Uh, and I know the history of this board doesn't like to do any waiverss if they have it ever. Uh, so I didn't want to bark up the wrong tree and file a whole NOI if we weren't going to go anywhere with it. >> I can I think I can speak for the board
that we're loathed to >> I know that >> to that. Yeah, that's um that's just something that unless it's really uh a hardship we have. We have uh in my time and I only been five or six years but it's I don't know that we've had any um
other than we had one recent um but um yeah >> and what I'm saying is there's a hardship here. The lot was here and I and I went through that last time as well and I have really beautiful documents. I was reading them again this week about how we presented that case
and the board was the commission was amendable to some of those hardships then. That's why they get they were going to go forward with the project, but they just said go as far, you know, try to get a variance, which we got. So, >> okay. Um I I'm not sure I'm ready to
sign up for a a subcommittee. >> Yeah. >> So, we'll just come back. I'll get a little bit more detail. Maybe I'll put a document in paper in writing some of the stuff that I sent before so you have it. Uh that'd be fine. >> Okay. Yep. >> I think what you want to do is file for an application.
>> Yeah. Yeah. An RDA. Yeah, >> whatever you want to >> do it as an RDA. >> Well, but but an RDA is going to be a positive determination. >> That's what I said. >> I I don't know. I I just I just just have to speak my opinion. There's no point in filing doing any filing if
ultimately it's just going to be a denial really, >> you know? Why why go down that road, you know? >> And and it's and I haven't talked to any attorney. It's just me and Terry right now. But if we did that, it would meet all the requirements for the state. So,
I don't exactly know from our end, and I'm just openly saying this, if we would file a state application and not a town application, get approved by the state, denied by the town. I don't we haven't explored any of that yet. So, uh that I just want to let you know what we're thinking now.
>> Understood. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'm I'm with I'm with David and I don't I'm not sure I see the the hardship in in my definition of hardship, but >> So, let me write it all down and maybe talk to a lawyer and uh and present it that way. I I think we're right rather
than keep coming in with a full NOI, which I know we could do. >> I'd rather address the key issue first, the details of the plan and where the patios are and the drainage, we could deal with that later. Well, but but again, what's what's the point in your client paying you to do that if
ultimately it's going to be a denial, you know? >> Well, he's my friend. I'm not charging him, so there's no money. >> Well, that's that's your call. >> Exactly. I know. >> I I think to hear David I I'm just from other other hearings that we've had, we've we've been very very
loathed to to issue a waiver. I think that's the message. >> I understood. Thank you. Okay. Um, thank you for keeping it brief. Um, we will go to the next item on the agenda. So, we have, um, our friends from the
Thanksgiving forest, Mr. Boutton, Karen Walton, Robin. Who's first? >> Okay. Karen, >> the gardeners. Okay. >> We have some shows.
Um, thank you for having us. Uh, we >> just, >> just for the record, you need to state your name and address. >> Karen Walton, 33 Janet Road. >> Thank you. >> Um, we thought you'd like to see the one-year progress of the forest. We started in November 2024 with your
approval and and support and the DPW. And I'd like to show you the before and after. the next slide. So this is the before and as you can see Robin's house is up on the hill. There's um was uh FYIA and 13 Norway Naples that
the DPW removed. And this is >> sorry. >> This is the before as you can see and the after. You can say show that now >> when it was all cleared. >> It's pretty dramatic. >> That's for sure.
>> It's pretty dramatic. We left the oaks and the trees that the DPW left. Um and Robins developed is developing a hill with all natives. Okay. In the next one. So this is on the right side as you go
into the forest right the gardens right in front of you on the right side is all the Norway maples again. And we came in uh Carl and a crew and Jeff came in and removed the Norway maples. And you can see the next slide.
how it's all clear right now and you can see the white birch. This was the uh Thanksgiving walk where there was two 200 people and they a lot of them remarked on on on the progress of the forest and how wonderful it was. The
next slide this is as you face this is before the garden was put in. If you face right straight ahead >> towards the water, >> there's buckthornne. There's >> wisteria and um
>> more Norway maple. >> Norway maple and the u grape vines. >> Yeah, grape vines. >> Some um >> bittersweet. Not much. >> So these all been hand pulled too that
work this area. So if you go to the next slide, this is what we removed the wisteria which is right there, the buckthornne and all the grape vines that were all under the um soil.
And the next slide is now it's all clear. This is where it was all all of the buckthorn and the invasives and um western nursery called Sway and said they had 36 native plants
to donate. So we put them in in one day right the day before the walk. So >> this was uh the native garden that we put in. So the next step next slide these are all the plants that they
donated. We we categorized them into Latin and um cultivars. In the next slide, they were donated 36, right? >> So, so when were they planted? >> 25th of November.
>> So, very very >> Hey, if half of them survived, that's better than >> We were just talking about that the ground froze so fast. >> Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. that we don't know if that they will survive you because we put trees in. There's some
oak tree in there, black oak. >> They gave us some trees, some shrubs. We're thinking but Robin just planted some um by the >> moist >> and it was the soil was fine. >> The soil was fine underneath. So we just
the other day >> Karen, you're you're you're losing off the >> Okay. A couple of days ago. >> Couple of days ago. So the next steps is we want to develop the right side where all the white birch are um with native plantants and the recolonization of plants. And Robin's going to talk about
but she can show you show you the wisteria first. >> Okay. >> Your name and your address. >> Robin Holman 38 Janet Road in Chelmsford. I will be as brief as I can. Um I just wanted to point out within the last two years we have found and removed
roots and all multifllora rose burning bush bittersweet honeysuckle and tree of heaven which were seedlings pulled. Yeah just pulled out. Um our main concern now is buckthornne and wisteria. I don't know if you have known of wisteria to be
invasive. >> Oh yeah. Um they were both introduced in this country in the early 1900s and Buckthornne is nationwide it's been a problem. Its Latin name is Ramnus cathartica which the second part tells you a little bit about what it does. Um
the seeds are spread by female trees um and it's alopathic meaning that its roots exude chemicals that alter the nutrient nutrient content of the soil and prevents other plants from germinating. The cathartica part of the name refers to the disruption it causes
in the digestive tracts of birds, amphibians and mammals and it doesn't kill them but it definitely creates problems and people too. Um so the buckthorn the ones that were under five feet most of them were handpulled roots
and all and we used a weed wrench. Um so that that was very successful. Um, the wisteria is that was a surprise. Um, I I think that I found a a metal trellis that was thrown into the woods and had
remnants of something wound around it and then I realized that there was this wisteria everywhere I everywhere. And I think that's what happened. It just escaped and we just didn't realize how far it had gotten. It's never bloomed and I think because it's trying to grow
up because it needs light and it has not gotten up far enough because the trees are so so tall. But the roots were unbelievable. This is 13 feet cut. One root. It's not the vine, it's the
root. And the roots go a few inches under the soil. And you can they're ropey. You can just reach down and grab them and pull them up. >> Did you say this is the bittersweet or the wisteria? >> This is wisteria. >> Wisteria. Wow. >> And they are everywhere.
>> Hundreds of feet. >> Everywhere. And then at one some point near the end they shoot straight down. But other than that, they're just like these. They're everywhere. Um so we ended up with a pile of them not wanting to compost them. Um so I think they came
from a trellis. They are also alopathic and they are in the bean family. So they are have nitrogen producing you know bacteria on them but it's so high in nitrogen that native plants can't it's it's too much nitrogen for them and they
obviously would have to evolve to be able to take advantage of that. So everything around both the buckthornne and the wisteria there's nothing when those areas were cleared there's no understory there are no ferns there's no ground cover there's nothing but bare
soil so we're hoping that once all of these things are removed then things will begin to recolonize there but it it's um >> I wonder if we'll have to amend the soil in some way >> you know I think with the nitrogen issue I think that disappears I think that
>> nitrogen It does. >> I think that eventually will go away. The buckthornne issue, I don't know. I mean, I know with uh uh garlic, mustard that th those chemicals will stay in the soil for a few years, but after a while, >> they'll disappear. You know, it kind of
nature will eventually get rid of it. Um that's also in here, too, but that's a whole another. you would would you be willing to actively replant and say if the conservation commission for funds? Well, you know, >> my my suggestion was that we essentially
um instead of replanting with plants that are not of the same ecotype that is in the rest of the forest that we with permission that we take some of the plants that are already in the forest in abundance and that we
basically trans transplant those into that area. I know that the uh maple leaf viburnum you can already see. >> Yeah, >> it's starting to colonize. And down here, here's a starflower. There's Canada um a manthemum >> Mayflower.
>> Yeah. >> But from here on, this is on the slope. From here down is where the buckthornne and the nor maples were. There is nothing. >> So I think with careful replanting, I know there's uh I made a
list of them. There's um um there's ferns, woodland fern which are evergreen. There's also a highland blueberry or it's a dry anyway. It's it's got green stems and it's just a it's everywhere. There's um there just
all kinds of plants. I've seen hazels in there. not a lot of them, but there are other other plants that we could use to basically make that whole slope more of a seamless extension. It's not really a garden, but it just makes it to what it
would normally look like. So, that's my plan. we can do an inventory in the spring of what's available um and come up with a plan for it >> and send you our >> I mean we could recolonize
>> what is already there >> that's a I I like that approach I like that a lot >> we don't know what n uh western gave us these are straight >> ecologically straight see it as being eological
because it is it's an extension of what's already there. We're not trying to put anything new in. It's all what exists and it's >> best approach. >> I I think it would work. I really do. >> So, is this an actual native wild rotodendran?
>> Oh, the the um >> the hill. >> Well, that's not that is the uh calmia mountain laurel. >> Oh, the that's what I was wondering. There's a rodend the rodendum's down for >> There is a roodendran down there. And >> we talked about whether it's the um um
maximum which is a native but it's so it's just so sparse that it could be the what is it the katabi ants so we're not sure but there is definitely mountain laurel and it is starting to colonize but it's above where all the buckthornne
and all the other things were so I think just with careful digging selective selectively deciding what should go in there it actually look just like I said seamless with the rest of it. So, >> and you saw how open it is now and the
white the white m the white birch just popping on that hill. It's open and we'll get that required circulation. >> I also want to note that we are aware that both Buckthornne and Wisteria will be will do revenge.
>> Yes. >> And we are totally on that. We will totally be out there. I live next door, so we're She lives next door, too. So, we will be out there getting it and trying to remove more of these as much as we can. Um, this has started to
spread into the forest. I noticed a couple of Yeah, you can see it. It just kind of runs right under the soil and then sprouts up. >> Good. We're getting getting it now. >> Yeah. So, we will we we're on it. We're on it. So, >> and doing it physical and cultural mechanical.
>> Yes. There's no chemicals involved in this at all. >> That's absolutely preferred. It sometimes is the only answer, but um >> only answer, but it works for us, >> but this this is definitely a preferred way. >> Yeah. >> What we'd like to do is come back in the spring with a list of with a planting list and make sure that we have
approval. I mean, obviously, we're not moving lady slippers. >> No, they won't survive. I don't think >> No, they won't survive, but it's only things that would e are easily transplantable and that are in abundance. >> Right. And Robin, as Robin says, she would like it as a destination, a
wedding destination, >> paint. >> And I think it could be. >> It could be >> because we're looking at benches and in an area of families and sitting. Okay. >> Anyway, great. Thank you. >> As long as as long as it will as long as
the the bride doesn't mind fisher cats. Fisher. Uh >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Jeeoff, do you want to come up? >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Yeah. Jeff Bootin 36 Janet and I did want to talk to you about fisher cats and owls. Uh the re reason I got
interested in them uh was over the last two years you know I've been doing videos and it was because of seeing them in so many videos that I started learning more about them. I've been doing it for two years by the way and and have seen them over the two-year
period. Uh so what I started doing is looking online and researching it and um there's a lot of places in the country that it had been eradicated by trapping and other issues.
And there's uh there's a company called uh Davis Environmental that started working with the National U Park Service back in the early 2000s to help them um bring the fisher cap back to the
northern states that border Canada. That's where they really were affected the most. And so they've been doing it for two decades. And a lot of the what I'm thinking about doing here and making here comes directly from all the research they've done. Uh, and the
interesting thing about fisher cats is they they only nest in hollow trees with a very specific size entryway. And um there's not a ton of that stuff out there. And also they're they're um
competing with owls because owls most of the owls not all of them but most of them have that same and so you've got a lot of uh a lot of animals there fighting for the same and so uh I got interested in in Davis
because of this video and I I've never I'd never heard of a fisher cat nest before nesting box. So, I got interested in it after I saw this video and it really explained a lot to me and I think some of you have seen it, but I was hoping you could play it so anybody who
hasn't could actually see what it is. >> So, I will play it right now. >> Three minutes or four minutes? >> Hello, >> I'm Larry Davis and this is an update on the Fisher artificial deadlock study. Fisher have their young large diameter
hollow trees. Trees like that are rare in managed landscapes. We're trying to see if boxes like this one will be used by Fisher to give birth to and raise their young. We've had great success in 2016 and 2017 with four different boxes
used for reproduction in each year. To help measure fisher use, we mount a GoPro camera on a selfie stick to check the boxes for kids and surprise this mother inside the box. returning later when she was gone, we
were able to verify that she only had one kit. When we examined the inside of another den box, the mother there wasn't quite as you can see the solitary kit below the female. This d has three kids in it. Knowing how
many kits fishers have provides important data for fisher population estimates, the entrance holes for our den boxes are sized to mimic natural dens. We think that females choose denses that just fit them to help exclude larger predators,
including male fishers. This female is having trouble getting her kid into the box. I don't think he's quite ready for bed. As the kids get older, they are able to climb in and out of the den without the mother's help. But as all parents know,
mobile youngsters can quickly get themselves into trouble. This kid has got his head stuck between a branch and the dead. The female is trying to get him out before his attracts a predator. It took a while, but this mother was
able to remove the skin before he attracted more trouble. This female has two hungry kits that you can hear inside the den box. Females often have to leave dens for extended periods of time looking for prey.
While she was gone, this male fisher found the den and is trying to gain entry by chewing the opening wider. Fisher are sexually dimorphic, with males being approximately twice the size of females. Unfortunately,
this male is very persistent and was successful in entering the ST box after approximately 30 minutes of chewing. These kits did not survive the encounter. We think that squirrel chewing damage around the opening facilitated the
male's entry into the den box. Red squirrels are attracted to the glues in the plywood structure. And you can see the amount of chewing on this box. To address this problem, we have installed solid wood door frames around the entrances of all dead boxes. So far,
we have seen very little chewing damage on the door frames, which should help address this problem. We also plan to change the design to include two layers of galvanized metal at the entrance. This will ensure that squirrels and male fissures are not able to enlarge the
entrance. Monitoring this spring will determine if the door frames affect how fisher use the structure. We would also like to thank our project sponsors for their support and encourage you to check back for project updates this summer.
>> Sorry about that last part. One of our best helmets just got better. >> Kind of sad in some ways. >> Well, it's nature. >> It's nature >> and it wouldn't be any different than a
fox or a hawk or, you know, anybody anything else that that lives off other animals. Uh, so, um, I'm I'm very interested in in following what they're doing in the exact same way they're doing it because it looks like they've
really developed it nicely. Um, and if you could put up the the next photo. >> Uh, sure. Yeah. And the fishers are not they're not endangered here, but they just have a they're having a hard time getting
traction because of the lack of um what they need to to help reproduce. So, this is my version of their their thing. It meets all the same dimensional requirements that theirs do. Um I went
different than the painted plywood. I went with other things that you see down at the forest that I've had my hands on. Um, but I'd like to put two of those out. One on the Carile side and one on the parking side. >> Both in Chelmsford, but just
>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. But near the >> Yep. near the Great Brook side. >> Yeah. And um also um I I I'd like to do um um owl boxes, too. And there's three or
four specific owls that are around this area. And their their um nesting boxes are specific in their own ways. And what I'd like to do is is to follow that and um sprinkle some of those in those areas
as well. Again, just to promote their being able to reproduce and and um live out in that in these areas. Did anybody have any questions? >> So, this the this opening looks um you
know, relatively speaking, a lot larger than the openings that we just saw in the video. >> Uh you know, it does, but it's the opening that's on their plan that I got off of their >> It's their In fact, you know, I'll be doing a uh a video on making this and
it'll actually show the plan. So dimensionally it's all exactly what they recommended to be. >> So this this isn't going to be large enough to let the male fishers in. >> Uh according to them what what I'll do is because you have a question on that I'll I'll reaffirm that with them just
to make sure that >> because that could easily be made um to be different. And this also has you can't see it because it's it's it's the same color. It does have an aluminum bracket around the opening. Yeah, that that did look like metal,
>> but I will verify >> dimensionally that opening because as they say, it's a very important part of that. >> Good question. >> That looks like it'll blend right in too. >> You know that on against a pine a big
huge pine tree is just except for its bulk, it's almost invisible. It really is the same color. And that was my intention is to not have it stick out like a six-year-old tree hut, uh, so to speak. And nothing on those guys, but >> y
>> it just it's it's a much better looking. >> Something else that I I'd be curious to know. I mean, it looks like these will also be perfect places for raccoons to nest. I mean, I'm curious to know if if raccoons ever get into these. Well, uh, part of the information I've seen from
those guys is squirrels and and other animals will if they're if it's empty, >> you know, they'll owls too will uh actually um so and in answer to that question, what they do is they bait as soon as
they put them out, they bait them up to to try to hurry that thing. And um I had a little experience with that is a year ago. I I bait in an area on the far end of Thanksgiving forest
with protein to see what would show up and it was I I had a camera out there for almost five weeks and 95% of the visitors were fisher cats. I'm not sure if it was the same one or it kind of
looked like the same one to me, >> but I have seen I have videos of um other fisher cats in other areas. It's they're usually by themselves, although I have one video with three together and one with two two together.
But, uh you know, any questions, you know, before anything goes up, I I would I would answer for you. Is there a particular time of year you'd put it up? >> Well, I'd want to put it up as soon as possible because what you want to do is put them up before they start looking.
And they start looking the end of January, early part of February. And part of the issue for me is the thing weighs about 35 or 40 pounds. And if if there's deep snow or something, that's going to be hard for me to So,
I'm kind of racing the uh the snow a little bit. Okay. >> But, you know, it's whatever you guys think and decide. And the same with the owl boxes. You know, if I could get some kind of feedback on >> I know all animals have a purpose in the
forest. What do these animals do? Do they keep down certain uh bridges or >> Well, there's one notable. They're uh they're the only p they're the only animal that can take down a porcupine
>> and that is one of their main um if they've actually introduced them into areas where porcupines were a problem and that was re reforesting areas. The porcupines would eat all the little stuff. They introduced the fisher
cat and the fisher cat is the only animal that that helps control porcupines. Other than that, I mean, they they they like foxes, they eat chipmunks, squirrels, rabbits. >> They're predators. They're predators. Yeah. >> I'm sorry.
>> They're predators. >> Oh, absolutely. And they're no different. You know, they just I think there's a misconception about fisher cats. They look scary. They're dark. They're black. They look like a weasel. >> Well, they supposedly howl as well, although I'm not sure that that that's
actually true. >> People with chickens might be a little upset. Well, even foxes are a problem with and coyotes are a problem with chickens and you know there's there's uh tons of them out there. I mean, they're they're everywhere. I was seeing coyotes in my backyard in Dunable in the early 70s. I
mean, they they've been around a really really long time. >> Is there anything else I can >> Well, I So, Peter, you have a question or a comment? >> Uh, hi Jeff. Um, thanks for the work by the way. Um, I'm curious. Did you run
across any information on uh how much space a typical fisher or fisher family requires? In other words, >> yes. Um what's a logical population for a small piece of land?
>> I tried to to find any information on fisher cat numbers in Massachusetts autobond and and some of the mass government sites. They they all give great descriptions on how they live, what they eat, you know, how long they live, what kind of area they need, but
nobody has numbers. Um, as far as the the area, uh, a female has pretty much like a five mile radius, and a male will be as much as a 15 mile radius >> for their range. Yeah. >> For their range. Yes. Yeah. But I know
I've looked at, for example, wood ducks and, you know, they they there's only a certain number of houses per, you know, mile of of river. >> Yeah. >> And I I have no idea what that number would be for fishers, but >> there's something to think about.
>> I didn't I didn't read upon anything that would give me that kind of information. Good question, though. >> Yeah, think about But my intention again is to have one on each end and >> and uh you know it's apparently there's a real shortage of their
>> their breeding um >> habitat >> needs. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> So, um I you know I think I can speak for the commission. We support what you're doing here. Um giving you the okay to um install a couple of uh Fiser
um houses as well as owl, you know, a handful of owl houses. I think that's a great thing. And I know you're doing a great job with the videos. Um it's what's the what's the uh channel on YouTube? >> What's your advertisement? >> Thanksgiving forest. I've got cards.
Anybody want to >> But for all the viewers, Thanksgiving forest uh on YouTube if you look that up. You can find it on YouTube. So, >> so do you have plans to monitor both the Fisher boxes and the owl boxes? You know how they're being used? >> Well, you know, um I'm going to do the
Fisher boxes exactly the same way they're doing them. So, when I locate one, it'll be located across from where I can put a camera and if it becomes occupied, I'll put a camera up and and monitor it from there. You know, both the top and the ground. But yeah, no,
it's all playing to and I gotta tell you, over two years of videos, I've bumped into more people that have said, "Wow, you know, I've seen your videos and I never realized there was so much out there." And this would be a great learning experience, educational
experience for people who just really don't know that much about animals, >> like most of us, but certainly me. >> I I think it's a good opportunity again. And fisher cats are really koi, you know, they're they're in the background. They are, you know, mostly night, but
they do I've got videos of them in the daytime, too. Um, but they're they're just rarely ever seen. They they really shy away from people. >> If I could just comment, they I did a quick Google search. Their range they they they travel huge distances
is what I understand. And it just I wanted to point out the obvious Thanksgiving forest is connected up and down the river to I don't know what is it 4,000 acres of conservation land in Carlile and and the builder of the town forest and our own Russell Mill
forest near you John and >> you know of course they you so they so they you know they're not just living there they're >> oh no and part of my you know putting it towards the Carile side end is to try to catch the loop loop that goes into
Carlilele from for for their range. No, absolutely. Uh, you know, I'm trying to, you know, grab some of that, too, because, you know, Thanksgiving foreign is really nothing but a peninsula off of Great Brook, >> right? >> It's, you know, the the way in and out, not taking, you know, because there's
there's houses there where there's no houses, 1,200 feet, 1500 feet, that's the only in way in or out. And they're just not they're not coming from my neighborhood. you know, they got to start from somewhere and I'm sure
they're coming in and out of that that that that area there. >> Great. Thank you, Jeeoff. This is We're good. >> Thank you. I really appreciate we appreciate the work and um >> thanks. >> We like we like the attention on uh on nature and uh and the habitat and the wildlife. Thank you very much. Thank
you. >> Yep. >> Uh okay. Now we have a Oh, we have the report of the planning board liaison to the commission. Hello. Good evening, Chris. >> Good evening, Chris Lavali with the uh
planning board. Uh because of the Thanksgiving holiday, we did not have a meeting since your last Concom meeting. Um so nothing to report there. But this week, we're likely closing uh most if not all of our public hearings. Uh the
Chelmsford Mall project has withdrawn, so we'll not be hearing anymore on that project for a little while at least. Um the two fire stations will be um probably closing and voting on those. 133 Princeton Street um site plan
modifications and then 152 Steedman Street project. Uh those will be the the public hearings that we'll be closing out on. And then the um second part of the meeting will be reviewing a list of zoning articles that we're going to
start finalizing to bring to town town meeting in the spring. Um and the select board will be signing the warrant on February 16th. So pretty much the next three uh planning board meetings will be doing a lot of zoning articles uh public
hearings and informal sessions uh getting ready for the uh spring town meeting. >> Okay, >> that's it. >> Any uh questions or comment? >> No. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.
Okay, that is it on our intro session regulatory hearing. First up is we have a RDA for Jeffrey Hansel at 16 Freeman Road. Um >> Peter, would you like to read it? Can you read there?
>> Can Can you see that? >> Uh yes. uh pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act MGL131 section 40 and the Chumsford Wetlands
bylaw chapter 187. The Chancellor Conservation Commission will conduct a public hearing in room 204 at the Chancellor Town Offices, 50 Bill Ricker Road on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025 at 7 p.m. to consider a request for
determination of applicability filed by property owner Jeffrey Hansel for proposed work in 100 foot buffer zone to Inland Bank, parenthesis intermittent stream at 16 Freeman Road. further
identified as a successors map 113 block 427 lot 14. The project entails construction of a 45 ftx 23 and 1/2 foot um attached garage totaling
157.5 square ft with a second story accessory dwelling unit. >> Thank you, Peter. Appreciate you reading it. Hello. Good evening. Can you uh introduce yourself and uh tell us about your project? >> Uh my name is Evangelos Steranos. I'm the licensed general contractor
representing Mr. Henstein. He couldn't be here. He called me late this afternoon. He said, "Could you please go?" He some personal matter he had to take care of. So I called David. David said it would be fine. >> Yep. >> Um so we were hired by Mr. Hasting to
build uh this garage. uh his uh mom is currently living with them and the idea is for him to renovate the second floor of the garage as an ADU, legal ADU, so then she'll be close to him and have
better care of it. Um we he had an engineer and then what had happened was the engineer passed away and then we had to rehire a new engineer to go out and do the survey and finding out that there's wetlands close to us.
We hired a wetland scientist to go out there. Uh and then I worked with David. I went out there with David once to see what we needed to do. Uh there is some protection barriers that will have to be put up there while this construction is
being done. Um then we found out that actually the sor line is going straight underneath this property. Well, where this uh garage is going to go to. So now we have to kind of work around where this line is going to go. And one way it's good because it will be right where
we need it to be to tap into it for the new the the new bathrooms and whatever needs to go into that plumbing. But I worked that out with the engineers and the DPW. He said that um we would be able to move it from one side to another and then reuse it without having to dig
it up because that would just totally >> since all the ground is totally frozen, they wouldn't be happening anytime soon. So, I'm glad that we worked that out a couple of days ago. So, we're all set with that. Uh and and again the idea was he was going to use a second floor
garage with a master bedroom, but seeing how his mom I think and that's why he wasn't here today is ill. Um I said to him uh hopefully she gets to use it. What can I say? I don't know. I mean it's just you know you get old and you
get sick and it's expensive for everyone. I know I've this will be number 12 ADU that I've done. I've done six over garages. I've done some in basement. I've done, you know, once they change the law, people, it's usually the same people trying to take care of their
either parents or the children coming back from college without a job and having them somewhere to go. So, uh, for us as a contractor, the problem is is that every place we go to, depending on what city, the town has different ordinance that they attach to the ADU.
So, it becomes instead of one month, it becomes two months or whatever. But it's understandable because it's a new process. So, uh, like I said, you know, I'm hoping this works out. >> So, this is, um, is I understand that you're, you're inside the 100 foot
buffer, but, um, barely in in a way. David, you've been to the property. >> Yes. >> And can you tell us what you've, you know, your findings? >> So, um, so the proposed addition, um, it's going in lawn. It's existing lawn. So, no trees are going to come down.
It's um it's 87 ft uh um from the um the bank, you know, or or the closest approach is 87 feet. So, it's um you know, I've I've I've been here long enough to know that I mean, this is this this is pretty typical for a negative
determination here in Chsford. >> So, just a negative determination with standard conditions, that's all. Is there a concern with uh Well, let me let the commission ask questions. Uh Peter, anything? >> Uh yeah. Hi. Um
>> there's a lovely tree just off the corner of the existing house. Can you comment on whether you're planning on taking that tree? It it is within the our jurisdiction, the 100 foot buffer. >> Right. So, no, we are not touching it. And and that was the other thing uh I
think I had mentioned. So the the uh shoreline runs almost right underneath where we are. And when I spoke to the engineer at the DBW, I said for the shoreline to come out from that area, it would have to loop around closest to
where that where that tree would be. And then we would be running into an issue of doing any damage there because obviously the roots do go far down. But this line goes down at least six feet. But once we loop over then we lose all the pitch. So the simplest thing without
doing any damage or any erosion to the other side would be to leave it where it is and to just to come from the foundation into it without moving the whole line all the way around without damage. So our intent was not to touch it. No. >> That's great. And just a suggestion either for you as as the contractor or
for our board if our board would like to make it a permit condition. But, uh, the experts tell me it's very important to not run construction equipment over the roots >> of a big tree like that. And it's kind of hard not to do that when you're I
mean, I understand the the >> So, we >> So, think about that how you might protect not just the trunk. >> Mhm. >> But try to avoid driving, you know, heavy equipment over the roots. And I realize that may be hard when you're excavating the foundation. I I know there's challenges. Well, that would be
a suggestion to think about. >> Well, we did that actually uh when we spoke to the engineer regarding moving that saw line. Our concern was that we would be so close uh to that tree that just leaving it right where it is would be, you know, the best for everyone
because that's at least 25 ft away from us. If we had to move the entire pipe, we would we're basically putting it within 10 ft of that tree. So, I'm glad that we decided not to do that. >> Right. But my suggestion is not the digging. It's the putting heavy equipment
>> compacts the roots. And we have plenty of examples in town of beautiful old trees like that that are toast because construction either piled material on top of them or ran a couple of, you know, excavators over it and and so that's just just a suggestion. Yeah,
>> I appreciate it. Thank you, >> Ellie. You good, Mark? >> Uh, topo. Was it does it drop off a lot in the backyard, David? Um, no, no. It's it's a fairly it's a pretty gentle slope down toward the wetlands. >> Uh, is you have any problem with the
sheds in the backyard? Just leave them alone. >> Um, God, they've probably been there for ages. I don't know. But, >> uh, I'd like to see on the plan the setup for the uh uh, waddles. So, when you excavating,
>> I'd like to see them in the plan. I also like to see a place where you cast the soils when you're doing the excavation. >> Mhm. >> I like to see her on the plan. That's all. >> Right. >> Uh that that was it. Everything else is pretty cut and dry. >> I appreciate it, >> Johnny.
>> No, I I think it's fine. >> No, like Mark said, just, you know, if they put the waddles at the 50 foot mark, whatever, just >> draw it in there. >> Okay. cast the materials where the future gravel's going to be. >> Okay. >> Driveway.
>> All right. >> You know, >> thanks, John. >> Okay. Um, any This is a public hearing. Are there any questions from the public? If you're from the neighborhood or anybody from the public, you're welcome to come up. No, don't see anything. All
right. So, um, hearing no any further comment or anything. >> So, I think just the only condition would be kind of just what Mark was saying. Uh, >> yep. just just get me a revised plan as soon as you can. >> Yeah. >> You know, showing the erosion the proposed location of the erosion control and you know where where the excavated
soil is going to be. >> Yeah. I I'm not sure which version you guys have because I think when these scientists came out, we sent it back out to the engineer and then he was supposed to send a revise showing where the BMS were going to be and all that other stuff. So, I will check to see which one
I sent him because >> because we lost the engineer, he had passed away. It was kind of >> Yeah, we'll let David figure that out. As long as Yeah. We're comfortable with that. Yeah. >> So, so did I hear you say, Angelo, you weren't going to be starting or hoping to start digging anytime soon?
>> Well, we're debating on that right now because uh the ground being totally frozen and obviously um the excavator said that if for some, you know, if it's doable, we'll try, but if it's not, we're not going to do it. We'll just hold down. >> And it's going to it's also going to be difficult to put in the erosion control
as well. >> Yeah. and and we I it's sort of like weather. I mean, we're in in Boston there's no snow, but you guys have snow already here. So, and you know, the weather changes so fast. We don't want to start something and leave it. So, we're sort of debating on that start date.
>> Okay. So, >> beforehand I'll fill in whatever missing parts there is for you. >> I'll take a motion to close the hearing. >> I take a motion to close the hearing. >> Motion from Mark. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second from John. All in favor? I take a motion to approve this uh with a
negative >> three be a negative three with standard conditions. So So did you say you wanted this to see the tree shown on the plan as well? >> Well, it' be nice just to draw it if we have to draw the waddles anyway, but >> Okay. Is that something? >> Yeah, I can get in touch with them and
just have them add on to it because they already did the survey for us. So I could just >> Okay. Have them fill that in. Right. So with the conditions specified the tree making sure the installation of the waddles on the drawing >> and there there are a number of other standard conditions. >> David can work that through. >> Yeah.
>> I'll let you know when the paperwork's ready. >> I appreciate it. >> I take a motion to approve with those conditions. >> I move we approve with the conditions just mentioned. >> Second. >> Motion from Peter, second from Mark. All in favor? >> I. Okay.
>> Motion's approved. Project's good. Good luck. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, David. >> Next up, we have uh this is continued from our previous meeting. This is the NOI for 30 bowl road extension. Um and
David, I know that um you were going to connect with the Lowel uh >> planner agent and um >> it looks like doesn't look like anyone's here. Um but yeah, I can certainly update the commission. So, so I I did um
uh have some did have some back and forth with the with the low agent actually the assistant planner there saying that be because this uh property is most easily accessible from Charlesford said the Chelsford commission would be happy to take the lead in uh you know drafting conditions.
Um so I did I did uh send him a draft order. Um again it's uh it's pretty standard. um uh for for this um and uh and he said he and he said he would present it to uh
his his commission which is having the searing tomorrow night and would uh get back to me if there were any additional conditions that they wanted included. I mean they'll still have to issue their own order but say something like you know shall shall it adhere to the chryer
conservation commission order of conditions. Okay. >> So, I think that's um I think that was the only thing we really had open on this if I remember right. >> Yeah. So, >> so um and and and and I did do a site
visit. So, um I I would I'd say a standard order of conditions uh on on this. I think though that there you also should take a vote to wave both a 25 foot no disturb and 30-foot no impure uh
impervious surface setbacks under the bylaw. So you probably take take that vote first I would suggest. >> Okay, I'll take that vote unless there's any further discussion if anybody has any.
No, >> I make a motion to uh approve the uh >> 25 foot and is it 25 and 50? >> 25 and 30 >> 30. >> And in fact, I can I >> test test people. Why doesn't need the the the a waiver for the 50 foot no
build? >> See See how sharp you are. >> Question of construction. >> No. >> Oh, because it's not in in the that's not in our cher bylaw because the struct the structures in lull. No, >> no, >> no. >> Those are good answers.
>> I thought I had it. >> Those are great answers. >> Please, teacher, what is this answer? >> Because because it's less than 40,000 square feet >> and that then that that requirement only pertains 40,000 square foot grade.
>> Is that also by the date and the square footage or just the square foot? Well, well, the date the date um is is if is if the the the structure were built before the bylaw was enacted in 1982. This this is older than that. I forget I forget the I'm sorry, this is younger
than that. I forget the year. Um so so that that that exemption that really is an exemption that does not apply in this case. But but um in in in in your vote to grant the waiverss, you should explicitly state due to demonstrated
hardship pursuant to to 18 section 187 last time. Yeah. >> Yeah. What section? >> Section 180 section 187 paragraph F. >> Yeah. very specific.
>> Very impressed. >> Hopefully you'll remember that. >> Good luck with that. >> Okay. So, um >> what' he say? >> So, we have the motion for the waiverss. So, motion from Mark. Do we have a second? >> Second.
>> Second from Ally. All in favor? >> I. >> Then we have a motion. Do did we do a motion to close the hearing? Should we have >> uh you you you don't necessarily have to close the hearing to vote on the VA waiverss, but >> yeah, I think the next step would be to close the hearing. >> Okay. So, I'll take a motion to close the hearing.
>> Doesn't look like there's anyone. >> Is there anyone from the public who wants to speak on this? >> I don't see anyone. Okay. Thank Thanks for >> motion to close. >> Motion to close from Peter, second from Ally. All in favor? >> I close the hearing. >> Then I'll take a motion to approve this
with a is still again a negative three. I know this order of conditions. So be standard order. >> Standard order. >> Standard order of conditions. Yeah. >> The standard order of conditions, right? >> Uh take a motion for standard order of conditions.
A motion. >> I miss Chris. I miss Chris. We just follow by. >> What's happening? We need our lawyer. I'm sorry if I'm responsible for this. >> I I make a motion to uh whatever you I >> approve whatever we have to do
>> approve the with the standard order of condition. >> Standard order condition. >> Okay. Motion from Mark. >> I second that. >> Second. Second with Ally. >> All in favor? >> We miss our lawyer. All in favor? I. All right. Okay. >> Oh boy. >> Thank you. All right then. Um we are
good to go. We'll have that. Yeah. >> It's pretty smooth. Oh, Chris. Oh, Chris, come back. All right. All right. Um, >> I hope he's not watching. >> His head's gonna get big.
>> Uh, okay. Next one up. We are at notice of intent. Uh, continued from our last meeting, Progeneration Energy Incorporated, 152 Steman Street. You don't look like you're in Scotland this time. >> I am not in Scotland. I do appreciate you uh taking me moving me up in the
agenda last night. you stayed up late >> there. So, yes. Yes, I was uh I was I would have been snoozing by the time you got to the uh if it was on the regular agenda there. All right. >> So, let's see. We are uh we continued to review the recent information and I
think the lo the latest issue was about the site compliance monitor, right David? >> Uh yes and uh I have had some um discussions with Bruce on that. So, um, there actually I I I think I I think
really the only main thing left to uh resolve is the special conditions, but but I but I first want to talk about so Weston and Samson had made a recommendation for a special um condition and um I I don't have it in
front of me. I apologize, but you had some suggestions about revising that. Is is is that was that revision included in what you sent me as a draft? >> Yeah. Yes. And again, I just want to point out I'm Anthony Shaw from Progeneration is here tonight um out there. I just wanted to to introduce him
to the commission. But uh yes, so the um they had written up a there was a condition that was written up uh through the planning board process about a winter stabilization plan. Mhm. >> Um and I my interpretation what Weston Samson was concerned about and their
comments were more having large areas of the cap stripped off and not stabilized out there. So I rewrote the language a little bit, suggested some language um that would address that as well as a winter stabilization plan. You know,
there's no intention to do winter construction here. It's not a site that that really lends itself to that. Okay. Um out there and the timing of the project. So, you know, that we'll leave that in there as a condition, but it really was I I really tried to expand that a little bit more to cover that
idea that, you know, that you don't strip off seven acres of the cap and then try to catch up. it's sort of like a a cascading process through the site out there and that we would submit a a schedule to demonstrate that as a you know as a condition of the
>> I'll um I'll I'll I'll go back and and review uh your your suggested language which I remember at the time thinking that that was fine. Um and then and then the other the other condition that we've talked about is you know the the town which you know in this case would be the
conservation commission and the planning board you know is we typically do you know hire a site compliance monitor um to uh um you know visit visit the site periodically and last I spoke with you Bruce it sounds like you know you were
agreeable to that you and your client were agreeable to that Um >> yeah, I think what we tried to uh we discussed was that the you know because this is a landfill there's a higher level of oversight that's required by a third party engineer environmental monitor such as myself um out there. Um
but David mentioned that David's I the concept was that um somebody from say Weston and Samson or somebody representing the town would come out once a week or so for again this is going to be a fairly fastm moving um you know again at some point it's just putting panels on. I don't think they
need to be out there for that. But, you know, when the actual stripping and and earth work is going on, you know, for 8 to 10 weeks and and and doing that and that seemed to be a reasonable approach to, you know, to provide the commission and obviously the planning board would have a similar um input to that. Yeah.
>> The idea of being coordinating so that it's >> Yeah. So, so I think I I I think um the specific language would be and I think this should be acceptable to the playing board as well. Um it just say you know pursuant to the revisions of you know such and such regulations the
conservation commission uh may hire a uh site compliance monitor um to uh you know u inspect the site for you know erosion control and and things like or or I would say probably compliance with the order of conditions. >> Yes. You know
>> generic. Yeah. Right. Right. But but I but I think as a practical matter it will be mostly uh you know checking um erosion control. >> Right. Right. And I think we talked that the planning board may have a more you know the site plan and some of the you know some of the the specific aspects of
the you know you all know that the commission's jurisdiction extends only to 100 ft away from the wetland. >> Right. So that again that again we obviously we'd want the same person to do >> you know while while they're out there do the work but that's that's acceptable >> and and and and I think it does make
sense that it be Weston and Samson. So >> yeah they're they're they've they've been educated on the project and and and >> so so uh we we we will get a proposal from them and you know give it to you for your review. And I do do you have do
you have a um a general time frame at this point for getting started? >> It won't be until the spring um out because again because of the weather and some of the conditions that the the prior RDA's talked about out there just you know because once they get going they need to just move along there. So
probably April 1 timeline weather dependent out there. That's what we've talked about. >> Okay. Okay. That's all I have to say. >> All right. Um, any other questions from the commission on this? I'm looking around. I don't see any more. This is a public hearing. So, are there any
questions from the public? >> Seeing none. Um, okay then. I think we are at a point where we can close the hearing. >> Take a motion to close the hearing. >> I move we close the hearing. >> Motion from Peter. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second from Ally. All in favor?
>> I. >> Okay. A motion to close the hearing passes. So now we take a motion for approving the project with the uh stated conditions, the standard conditions and >> and the and the two um special conditions we just discussed.
>> Yeah. Can you just say them one more time? Um so one is um I mean this is generally speaking not the exact language but but one one is for a a site a a site se uh a work sequence for
winter sight stabilization and and the other is uh for the commission to hire a site compliance monitor to check for um adherence to the order of conditions. at this point. It's not just winter. It's it's just a general site sequencing construction
sequencing plan because I think >> this this is a project that won't happen in the in the winter. We left that in there because in case something app comes up and but that's the case >> whenever. Yeah. >> Okay. So So move >> so the motion from Peter as stated and
we have a second >> Ally second. All in all in favor >> I >> I Okay, >> thank you very much after meeting. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next up, we have uh we need
to get a motion to continue the hearing for New England Power at One Ecuador Road uh to January 13th. So moved. >> So moved. So moved. >> So moved from Mark. Mark and second from
Peter. All in favor? >> I Okay. So 100 Ecuador Road, January 13th. >> Uh nothing in discussion. I think uh continual business. We have bylaws and regs. Um
um I know we did hear from Alex from the town council, but I think we're not quite ready yet to present that um to the to the uh rest of the commission yet. But I think we're in good shape and it's going to be January. So we will have to do a little bit of a sprint. So,
maybe we'll have um maybe we'll have a a a draft of a of a bylaw of a town meeting article for a bylaw for the January 13th meeting hopefully. Okay. >> Or at least in principle. May not be the wording, but um we'll have something.
But what I heard from Chris earlier is February 16th is the select board warrant signing. So somewhere before then we need to get it to the to Paul's office. >> Um well I I'm going to speak to Paul
actually ask him if um town council can draft it. May maybe Paul can draft it himself but I would think he would be you know working with that working with town council. Um so I will I will speak to him. >> Okay. >> To speak about that.
>> All right. Good. Anything else? uh continual business. I don't there was nothing on the agenda. Um so land management conservation site update. So Peter, nice job on the Thanksgiving presentation tonight. You get the Thanksgiving forest.
>> This is it's like that's like I don't even know what to say. Like the thing the our local team just takes care of everything. >> They they do a great job. The other thing that wasn't mentioned um is that Jeff has gone out and started the process of improving the trail marking
on the site as well because it's been kind of lacking uh right >> and um so that's that's happening as well. So that's that's good. >> Right. And I think, you know, goes without saying that the beauty of what's going on, the the critter work work on
the critters and the uh plant native and invasive removal. Um that's a model that fits some of our other conservation land that has the same situation with just a few problem plants at the edge. >> Yeah. >> I'm thinking downstream of that, you
know. So, it's a good thing. >> They know their stuff. >> They know their stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's good to see. Um Ally is now our um uh lime quarry representative. So um thanks for taking that on. Appreciate
that. And um we just I just got a text today from Bill Robbins who's the uh the steward there. And he showed me a picture of a um a box spring. Somebody left a box spring in the parking lot. Nice. Nice. So, he did submit a um a
cclick fix and hopefully DPW can get get it picked up. >> Okay. Do you do you want me you to talk to them about that or >> No, he he submitted one >> to DP to DPW. >> Yes, he he submitted one to and it will I assume it'll go to DPW. If we see it, then we'll >> Yeah, I don't think it will
automatically go to DPW. >> Depends on how you what you select what you have to select something. So, we'll we'll see. We'll see what happens. Um uh anything else online Corey just
>> just took it over today. So no, not yet. >> Oh, come on. You're not up to speed yet. >> We can we can go. >> No, I just took it over. >> We'll do Let's go. Let's go walk it together one of these days. Yeah, it might need spikes. Uh if you have
spikes, but uh we we can >> It's good. It's a good site. It's a good site. All right. Uh anything on Redwing? I don't know of anything going on there at Redwing. Um John, anything at Russ? No, >> everything's good. >> I don't think Yeah, >> speed bumps are still there. >> Speed bumps are there. Good. Good. >> Oh.
>> Um Carl. >> Yeah. >> Um Redwing I think there'll be an article in Paul Cohen's next newsletter. >> Our communications team has been working with >> Right. Right. >> The leader of that project to put a few words to thank everybody. >> Oh, on the fencing.
>> Yeah. I'm sorry. Yes. >> Yeah. Good. >> That'd be good. Yeah, it's a good that's a >> you have to do something like that. >> Uh Oak Hill, uh I mentioned the Beaver Dam uh last time. Bill's not here, but I know he he was talking to some of the folks at the Gun Club and they're
concerned about the Beaver Dam because um if you remember two or three summers ago, the dam that was further upstream, it was much more water and let loose. Um, I have to say I'm not sure it was naturally let loose the in the just the
way it was, but that's just me. That's just my opinion, you know. I'm not stating anything I know, but um that that caused a lot of damage in the gun club in terms of their their >> pond pond. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, they're concerned about this, but um
I think all I can say right now is we'll keep an eye on this. It's not anywhere near the size of what I understood that other dam to be. >> I don't think it ever would be. >> Yeah. And um it's also what I saw from it a couple of weeks ago or last week when I saw this dam. It's a it's a good size it's a good size dam, but I think
we should look at getting a beaver deceiver installed in there that will just keep the water flowing and not let it get too big beyond what it is. Um so we should we should look into that. Um >> you don't think traffic's necessary? >> No. >> Okay. >> No, I don't think so. Not right now.
This is actually a good place for them. This is where you'd want them. >> Okay. to me. Um, it's it's really just below the solar field. You know, there's a lot of, you know, I I I suppose in some, you know, I can't even imagine it getting up to the solar field or anything.
>> Oh, yeah. That's pretty. >> Yeah. I'd have to get way way up there. So, >> up near the bridge. >> You just stand at the bridge and look upstream and you can't miss it. You can't miss it. Yeah. >> And there's another one just downstream. Cuz I saw the one downstream first >> and I said, "Oh, look. There's water here." You know, it's more than the
normal amount of water. And then I turned and looked upstream and went, "Oh, there's a much bigger dam upstream." So, but yeah, you stand on the bridge, you can see it. >> You think people are planting these beavers? >> I don't know. I don't know. Beavers are
Beavers been around a lot longer than we were. Uh, a lot. >> Well, well, they they were they were gone for a long time and and then the state brought the state did bring them back. >> Yes, that's correct. Yeah, that's true. Um, nothing at the Cranberry bog that I can think of right now. Um, the Warren
Poll, we do have a small group of people looking at the interpretive signage um, uh, project. Um, I think I've talked about this in the past, quite a while ago, that we have access to some money from a generation uh, generous donation
um, through the Chumswood Land Trust to put some good interpretive signing in there. And um so we have a small group of people working on uh just getting going finally. We started and stopped a couple times like two or three years ago and we're finally getting going again.
So hopefully that'll happen and um we're going to talk about sort of the history of the site. um you know big picture history of the site. Um uh some agriculture aspects as well as how this site fits into the overall
um uh area uh watershed and ecosystem and habitat and wildlife and all that. So there's there's some good good opportunity to put some good stuff and and I think the signs will be because the money's not it's it's it's it's a
decent amount of money. Um, we should be able to get a, you know, quality quality signage in there. Um, >> can we kind of review the signage before I get done? Okay. >> Sure. Yep. Yep. >> Hey, Carl. >> Yep. >> Not to delay this. Did you have a vision
of how big? >> I don't know yet. I don't Yeah. Yeah. I don't really know. I I think And I don't think we want 20 signs. I think we want like three or something like that and kind of spread out a little bit. But >> they really should be discreet to me and not just detract from
>> I mean it's a beautiful beautiful spot and um >> Right. >> Um so you don't want it to be like putting a sign right in the middle of the field. It's like nope. No, we don't want to do that. >> Yeah. You know, look at how beautiful this field is. Like >> here's a picture of the field.
>> I got a question on Coolers. >> Yep. >> Have they been surveying up there? the the surveying was done u months ago. Um and we we're still waiting. >> We are we are still waiting for the recordable plan. >> Henry mentioned something to me this
morning about uh did they mark the wetlands in the hayfield or something? >> Uh way back like a year ago or yeah more, but nothing. >> Yeah. >> I don't think the surveyor went over there. >> They used the metal the little metal flags.
>> Yes. when when they did the delineation. Yeah. They use they use metal tags as well as the blue flags. >> Yeah. You don't want to put that in hayfield. >> Yeah. >> If you kill a 30,000 $40,000 horse. >> Really? >> Oh, yeah. >> You mean if they eat it? >> No. No. In the hay field, if you bail
the hay >> Yeah. >> and it goes to the farm. >> Oh. >> And the horse eats that metal >> stick. >> We got We got to be careful. >> Okay. Well Well, thank you. That's That's good to know. >> Good to know. Okay. So,
>> um, and the other thing is, um, I know Bill has been chasing the sign, getting the sign installed at Culis, and, um, given the weather, we'll see. Um, we got to dig a couple of holes, so we'll we'll see about that. Um,
uh, oh, and we need to talk about the the fence. And did did you clarify anything with uh our defense on that? whether or not the option one option two >> didn't didn't have a chance to but but I'm inclined to agree with you you know looking at those quotes that um that
that that they would they two together okay >> would would be you know the entire >> so that expensive >> it's well it's 13 grand total >> so what let me describe what we're talking about and I think we should vote on it because I'd like to because the
next conservation meeting isn't until January 13th and the and I'd like to have this go to a CPC meeting in January, which would be right around the 13th, I think. So, this would be um the the quote came in three parts. Let's The
first part would be a guardrail that would go right across and it's 61 ft long. And if you're driving in the driveway into the parking lot, it would be the the fence the fence would be right across where the the stones are right now looking out to the field. So, it would look better than the stones. It
would it would be better than having these big big rocks there. And that that one's $2,800 installed. So, it's 61 ft of a 20 of a 61 ft of a low. It's wooden post with metal uh guardrail.
>> I think I remember they were 4x10 >> Yeah. >> rails and 6x6 post bolted in. >> Well, you're talking about the guardrail. >> The guard the guardrail. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. >> You need that guardrail? Yeah, because you don't want people driving into the property and all that. And um this would
be just like the one at Warren Pole along the driveway. It would be the same kind of one. So it would I think it would be >> I think it look nice. >> Yeah, it'll look nicer than the the rocks are kind of in that spot here. >> Second part uh is is a
>> rocks are antique. >> Mhm. >> Rocks are antique. God. >> I know. I know. I know. on the glacier. >> Just let you know that granite's antique natural. >> The other part is, you know, we want to delineate >> we want to delineate the vernal pool
buffer area. So, this would be a split rail fence that we have it in two sections. So, one would be all the way in around the backside coming towards the parking lot and that's 470 ft and it's $7,750
installed. And then there's another section that would go from that back corner of the parking lot up to the front of the parking lot near where the driveway clicks and that's only $116 ft and it's $3390. So all told for all uh so for those two
split rail fences it would be $11,140 and the combined um split rail fence and the guardrail would be $13940. My math is right. I think that's right. And this is a quote from Hardy Fence in
Bill Ricka. We've worked with them before. The DPW works with them. They're kind of the go-to for these kinds of this kind of fence work. So, the proposal is to vote and approve this for installation whenever the weather allows it. Um, the money would come from the
CPC, uh, the the community action, the community preservation act fund. Um, I'm quite sure there's money for this kind of thing. And this is for a site that is uh that was bought with this kind of money. So, it's totally to me it's
totally appropriate. It still has to pass them, but I'd like to be able to tell them that the uh that the commission approved this. So, >> I got a question. Y >> are you going to remove the stones? >> Yeah, we pull the stones out. >> The stones are out.
>> Yeah, we'll bring them to your house, John. >> That's a good question. >> It's actually a good question where to put them because there's not >> We don't have no stones on Mil Road. >> We'll put them right in the road. >> Speed bumps. Yeah, >> speed bumps. No, I'm not a believer in stones,
>> but but I think it would be better to remove them off site rather than just put them in a pile. >> Yeah. Yeah. We have to figure out what to do with that. And that we'll have to work with DPW. >> That's what I was going to say. This got to be coordinated. >> That's not a fence. That's not a >> road on it. It's going to be coordinated >> to get rid of the stones.
>> We have to figure out where to >> Are you sure you want to put a metal >> guard rail? >> No, it's wood. It's all wood. >> It's It's all wood. I think it's all wood. I I think I thought I metal. I thought I I think I misspoke it. >> Okay. I'm questioning that. >> It's 4 by10s >> and then 6 by sixes.
>> That's fine. >> Yeah. >> Nice. >> Yeah. Metal doesn't >> want to make a motion to not to exceed amount. >> Yeah. Make it like 14 grounds. >> Yeah. >> Are we that need a discussion? We have >> any further discussion?
>> It's split rail fence. It's got locust posts. It's got couple of different hardwoods for the rails. It'll all be the same. It just depends on what their supply is. It's two rail, not three rail. If you remember our um Redwing Farm, we had three rail to match what
was already there, but in this case, two rail is more than adequate for what we're looking for. >> Yeah. >> I make a motion. >> Yep. >> To to uh >> approve the spend of >> not to exceed $14,000 >> for offense
>> sort of as described prior. >> Okay, that that works for me. Thanks. Motion from Mark. >> Second. >> Second from John. >> I love spending money. >> All in favor. >> I Okay. All right. Thanks. >> Well, there really is plenty in the CPA
account. Yeah, >> there really is. So, >> yeah, this is and this is this is this is what it's for. This is exactly what it's for. So, >> all right. Um and u was there anything else on Culis? >> Uh I don't think so. Is has the new
trail been >> they've they've started marking it out and um you know weather's not cooperating a lot but you know you can do a lot a lot of the work. Um and I know they want to get uh some equipment in there but I I'm I haven't been over there in a week or
maybe even a little more. >> It'd be really great if we could get a group together for invasive management there like they're doing at Thanksgiving. That's for sure. >> Yeah. Well, they're they've done a lot there. They they've done a lot of invasive culace. They have done a lot there.
>> Um I will note I sent around to some all of you guys the um video that Pete Dues from Tele Media did >> of the um his visit to the coolest farm on the day of it was a week ago today when we had snow. I think it was Tuesday and it was quite good. It was really
really a good good video with his drone and um it was a nice overview high level view of the of the site and then uh and then he took the drone through the trails and that was it was it was >> all the music >> with some music very nice music. It was very calming and
>> was it was quite nice. Yeah. So kudos to Pete and he's he's offered to help us as he did with uh um uh Cranberry Bog. Uh we can do some more of that. um agents report. David. >> So, the only thing I was going to say getting back to Warren Pole is I'm I'm
just going to be writing and submitting a grant to um we have an we have a proposal from Oxbow Associates doing um in introducing the Gericella beetles at Warren Pole to attack the purple strife
because there was there was a pretty severe in infestation this year >> for for some reason when it has been too bad in past years. So, um, you know, the be the beetles, um, have been proven to
be effective. Um, now I my concern is maybe there's something in the environment or something that's now causing them to decline. So, that's that's been included in the proposal to look at. So, that's 3500. well before my
time, but Mark and Chris and Bill might remember that we did this as a commission many years ago in the in various areas. Yeah, the agent at the time kind of championed it. There was some schools involved, but um
>> uh I think this is the right approach for this um >> to to do this. And I know Peter, in your backyard, it's been pretty effective. Well, when they released the Beatles, um within two years, um I don't know, 10 20 acres of loose
strife were gone. However, at that same time period, a beaver dam, historic beaver dam had grown. >> Oh, okay. >> And the loose stripe was under like 2 feet of water for like a year or two. And I've read that that can also do it
in. So yeah, I don't know what worked, but I I still find an occasional loose strife beetle because there's still some loose strife. Not much, >> but there are I see them every summer. >> Warren Pole was really a lot the last couple years and it wasn't two or three
four years ago. Wasn't that bad. >> Something seems to be going on. >> Yeah. So, okay. >> Yeah. >> So, that's good to hear. And Peter, did you want to mention the biodiversity grant? >> Uh, yeah. We are uh working with uh uh
community development Evan Balansky uh to try to pull together a proposal by December 25th for some modest funding to do some wildlife uh surveys at probably War and Pole and
maybe some habitat corridor kind of something or other. We haven't figured out exactly what, but um I wasn't going to say anything in case we didn't get it done over the holidays. >> Well, hope >> but we're aiming for that. >> I'm putting the pressure on you here.
>> Yeah. And there are there are some other there are other grants like that. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. Got it. >> Good. Uh CR for 255 Princeton Street. We have a >> Yep. >> Did our notary public remember her stamp?
>> No. Okay. Oh, >> you forgot to remind me. >> Okay, then. >> Well, we can we we can just leave her the signed page. You can do it tomorrow, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Say again. Oh, she'll stamp it then.
>> Yeah, once once it's signed, then then she'll uh >> uh certify it tomorrow. >> All right. >> So, I think all if if people have read it and are comfortable with it, I just need a motion >> to uh approve it. Okay.
I'll take a motion to approve the conservation restriction for 255 Princeton Street. >> Second. >> Who Who took make the motion? Right. >> Who makes the motion? >> Oh, >> yeah. >> I make the motion. I'll second.
>> I make the motion to approve for two >> 255 >> 255 Middle Sex >> Princon Street. Motion from Mark. Second from John. All in favor? Hi. >> All right, we'll do that. Why don't we adjourn and we can sign it as we we
don't have any uh minutes. Do we have to approve >> meeting? We don't have any meeting minutes, do we? >> Not yet. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um there is there is one other thing to sign uh not on the agenda because it came up uh suddenly. Um but uh back in 2014, in June of 2014, the commission
issued a partial certificate of compliance for two uh duplexes. Well, actually the partial is the order of conditions was for two duplexes. Um, and and the partial that the commission
issued back then was for completion of the first duplex at 172 Princeton Street. Um, I think it got issued. Uh, I don't know, but it certainly never got recorded. So, there's been a request to
just resign that. Don't don't even need a motion. Okay, >> good with that. >> That's all I >> take a motion to adjourn. >> Make a motion we adjourn the meeting. >> Motion from Alli. And all in favor? I
>> thank you very much. Chel media.