work for a hydro geost know that they're using that Okay it's 7 o'clock I'm looking up there I'm looking at the wrong clock Good evening It's 7 o'clock It's actually 7:01 It's uh Tuesday April 8th 2025 I'm calling this meeting of the Chson
Conservation Commission to order My name is Carl Bishoff I'm the chair of the commission We will be following the published and posted agenda for the most part Uh this meeting is both in person and through Zoom In the case of the Zoom not working uh properly we will continue
the meeting in person only By the way the the state law was um extended to 2027 so that we can continue to have Zoom meetings um in the state of Massachusetts Uh this meeting is being broadcast and recorded by Chsu Teledia
and will be available on their website and on YouTube And clearly we have a a quorum here in the of the commission Uh a couple of things before we start These were not on the agenda but I just want to mention that Sunday April 6th was International Beaver Day And um
everybody should know that beavers are a keystone species and they create ecosystems and habitat that store water increase biodiversity and are an overall benefit to our our environment And we the conservation commission are dedicated to protecting the habitat of
these even if they're in your backyard somehow Uh try to live with them uh and live with around them So that's the end of my talk on on beaver international beaver day Next meeting we will celebrate the willow
tree I got a reaction out of you John Oh boy that was good That was good April 22nd also this uh year is Earth Day and the week of Saturday April 19th to Sunday April 27th is the Chumsford townwide uh cleanup sponsored by the
recycling committee And um I have uh asked our commission members here to uh hopefully some of them will join me in a cleanup out on Actton Road on uh Saturday morning Um you can get these
yellow bags uh at town at the uh Alpha Road um DPW building Want a bag want a bag sure Yeah we got a bunch of bags But you can get a bag And um so what happens is if you clean up your neighborhood clean up in your in your street or clean
up as we're I'm hoping we can do we have a couple of conservation properties that that have a lot of uh trash on Actton Road Uh we have Robin Hill up on the hill Uh and we have with the right reservation on Parker and so there's a lot of trash on right on 27 So we will
have a police detail that will keep us safe because it's a busy road Uh but I encourage everyone to go get bags at the at the DPW If you have these your trash in these bags you can put them out with your uh with your regular trash at no
extra cost And um so this is a a good thing to do here in the town of Chumsford So hopefully you guys can uh can meet me there on Saturday the 19th at uh 8:30 All signed up everybody It's raining Come on Rain doesn't stop
us All right Uh next thing on our agenda the first thing listed on our agenda is about the request to remove trees blocking the view from the fire tower at Robin Hill Reservation Did anyone else go up there i went up there today and looked at him Anybody else so my take on
this is um first of all David do we did Brian join no I don't I think you didn't think he was going to join Not here Um so we we need to do some homework on this clearly Um it was it was actually more informative going up there and
seeing this than I thought I think may I I'll admit maybe for a little fun reason too I think we should ask to go up the tower and see for ourselves And I'll admit it'd be fun to go up the tower but also I I'd like to see for sure you know where these trees are and how much
they're impeding our view You know to me it's almost irresponsible to cut down trees without seeing for ourselves that our trees are blocking this this view Second thing is they have a lot of trees tagged but there's an awful lot of trees up there that aren't tagged So this is
not like it's going to clear the top That being said there were some trees tagged that I would call them snags I'm like why are we knocking down snags so if he's saying 30 and he's counting those snags it's not 30 So it's it's somewhat less So I think we should be
looking at getting some kind of an estimate of the cost of doing this We should be talking to um the tree warden and visiting the site with the tree warden with Christine We should get some expertise from like a forestry consultant And I think we should also
ask the DCR to work on coming up with some funding mechanism that we're not we conservation commission and not even just Chsford is paying for this It should be it should be u many or most of the towns benefiting from having this
this fire tower um up there So as a side note I found this article from 1986 from George Parkhurst and it was from the Chumsford Historical Society um website and it said that the tower the first tower was built in 1911 It was 30 ft
high and it was basically a ladder to a platform The second tower was a real tower was built in 1918 and it was 68 feet tall and it more or less looks like the one we have now And it lasted for 20 years till there was the hurricane of 1938 in which case the tower came down
and I'm guessing a number of trees as well And then a year later they rebuilt a new tower and it's essentially a replica of the one that was built in 1918 And that's the tower that's more or less been there I think they changed the the structures there but they think they
changed rebuilt the the the very top of the tower So it's been there for a long time But the interesting thing is that when the original 1918 tower was built by the state the town of Chsford coughed up $300 Many other towns in Middle Sex
County coughed up money and the state funded the rest of the construction of the tower So there's a precedent for not us being the ones to to be the ones spending all the money in Chsford for something that benefits all the towns around So it's an interesting uh some
interesting history to get on that And apparently in the 1600s there was a a house built up there that was probably used for um the the speculation was that it was more looking as a lookout structure for Indians and other invaders
uh of the area So does uh DC communities ask for help i think that's our our request or I think that's on us to ask them to go try to get some money and you know it's it's I'm going
to guess what $30,000 to cut down some number some trees like this 20 30 something like that could be $1,000 a tree Yeah it's something like that Now if they if they chip them or don't chip them and you know whatever but it's something like that So if you get 30 30
towns then it's a thousand bucks a town It's it's not going to kill every town it's not a big deal So I think that's all a reasonable approach to this Um and I think we just have to kind of work through this and I don't want to jump at it right away and just say go cut these
trees So um maybe it makes sense to either you know I encourage you to go up and look You can drive up I get my car all the way to the top and you you can get up there um and take a look Peter Yeah Yeah If I could just comment it'd
be nice to get some expertise on what to do if assuming we went ahead with the project It'd be nice to get an expert to give us some advice whether we should replant something or let it reveate naturally or you know you know what do
you do with the what do you do with the land is there enough other big trees there it'll recede and don't worry about it or should a DCR there should be that kind of expertise of DCR I would think Yeah you know Yeah Really and they ought to be able to provide that Yeah Yeah
I agree Okay So I um I would say we don't need to have DCR come back yet other than we can communicate with Brian and try to work out some of the things I mentioned Sure And then we should organize with I'd like to go up there with Christine with the tree warden um
and at least some number of us So maybe David you can help organize that um so that we can get up there at some at some point and see it because uh I think it's really true to you know getting out and seeing it makes a lot of difference Okay Uh next up is the report
from the planning board liaison Hello Chris Good evening Good evening So this week we have our reorganizational meeting Um we've got a few a couple new members of the uh the board Uh Marcy Comtoy was
reelected or elected Um Joel and Anita were both elected and then Serita Fernandez was elected as the associate member Um so we'll be reorganizing uh tomorrow and uh we'll be having a couple informal discussions on a couple
properties the 265 Chumsford Street Um the Chumsford Mall is looking to do some parking lot changes and two potential fast food uh restaurants in that upper
lot Uh we've got 191 to 195 Riverneck Road Uh it's the um home property and then the vacant lot to the right of that and behind um they are looking to potentially put a contractor yard there
Um and then continued discussion on 11 Cushing Place bridge as well as Kate's Corner zoning And we're going to be discussing the aquafer protection uh zoning uh
questionnaire That's it Comments questions Uh that that pedestrian walkway in Cushing Place wasn't it already approved it was approved Um part of the issue is that it was never done Uh there was some
dependencies with some of the town work Uh the property changed hands a few times and now there's some disagreement as to what was agreed to how much and uh so that that might uh part of the
discussion Okay Hey Um ju just a comment Chris you don't need to comment on this but I'm just curious if the Chumsford Mall changing out some of the stores would trigger any of the town storm water rules under either the land disturbance
permit the DPW's issues or something your board or this commission might be I don't know Um that's going to be one of the questions I'm going to be having tomorrow is what extent the parking lot changes I don't know if they're repaving the entire lot or just adding a couple
islands because there are two sections There's the upper lot where they're putting the the uh potential restaurants and then there's the lower lot where they're doing some reconfiguration So I don't know yet what extent of work they're doing It it it was said at the
conceptual development meeting that there was going to be a net reduction in pavement on the site 20% All right So it probably won't trigger it then Correct And and and the other question um maybe we can all read the town bylaws about low impact development or design
preferences Maybe there's a chance to do something about hotspots with trees Yeah Then this is the preliminary discussion uh informal discussion with the planning board There won't be any public comment and it's not an official hearing yet Okay Thank you Yep
Okay Thanks Chris Appreciate it Um next I'm going to move one of our uh agenda topics to the front Now um under the land management we had a discussion on Kulis kiosk and um so let me start this off a little bit by saying that um
we had um found out we found out last week uh Dave and I found out last week that there is a project already started by an Eagle Scout uh for a kiosk at the Coois site Um this is a uh a well done photo um photoshopped picture of the
kiosk in a possible location that is not a real location That's that's not a real you know it's a it's a modified photograph but it's quite quite well done And um so this uh uh this project just kind of we we didn't know about it It wasn't on our radar And as as we all
know we like to review and approve uh these kinds of projects And I'm quite impressed with the quality of the work But I'd like to ask the young man um to come up and and talk about his project and uh and uh tell us about um this this
uh this activity And so this is Nick Fod Yeah So hello everyone Uh my name is Dom Fod from Troop 75 And um this is my I'm sorry This is my Eagle proposal for uh Cool's Farm over in South Char It's a uh it's a wood trail kiosk Um it's made out
of uh I'm so sorry It's made out of um wood and cedar We have a back you can open it up um you know place all the all the maps you need and um you know all the you know signs so everyone can read them
uh our first our first photo that was our first location and then it wasn't fully confirmed So we decided on yeah the second photo as our our fall on that or like fall back on Um these aren't the actual kiosks actual pictures These are
just pictures I found off Google but the um the kiosk we have is fully built So Oh so that's not your kiosk No no Oh I thought it was Okay Oh no I have seen your picture and it's it's got like uh pegged Yeah we we pegged it in Uh we
slotted it in you know Yeah Do you have any fasteners in it um yeah it's screwed screwed all in Okay perfect And we stained it so it's weathered Sorry I thought I when I said to David if he had a picture I I don't think you have a
picture of the actual kiosk that was built that's sitting in your basement or your garage or Yeah workshop But it must look similar to these Oh yeah it does Yeah basically identical Yeah pressuretreated wood Um it's stained It's very nice
So any um questions so I um my suggestion is we ask some questions about about his project and how it how it went and um and then we can make a decision if we want to have it have it located at at Kulis or I I'm told there's an alternate site But to be fair
to the to the Eagle Scout he's he's made a commitment through his the process there to what they call the beneficiary which is which is John Ray um who's one of the members of the um Koulis Friends
of Coolis And so if if if it doesn't go there then it causes some commotion Maybe that's a big word um for for Nick to go through So um you know putting it in here isn't the end of the world Um it's not you know we we've had some
conversations about maybe um we we're not ready yet for where we want to a a kiosk but let let me just ask let you guys John if you want to start with some questions and Oh I think this is a great thing Uh when you dig the holes bring a bring
a crowbar with you Find some rock Yeah we were thinking um sonnet tubing it in just in case it needed to be moved and then packing it with crush rock Nope I think you're doing a great thing It's great service Excellent Bill I saw a picture of the one you made That's
beautiful Thank you Really nice And uh the only question is where we're going to put it Um that has to be decided but it looks beautiful You did a nice job Thank you so much Mark Again I know the board feels the
same way I appreciate you doing this for the uh for the site and they're not not easy to do especially like Billy joins the digging up there We look forward to seeing it up there At least I do and I'm sure the board does also Oh yeah Very Thank you Well Chris
thank you Chris uh my son's an Eagle Scout so I know how much work it takes to get to this point where you're wrapping up your Eagle Scout project and uh it's always great to see the Eagle Scouts come in in front of us and and tell us what they're doing So I commend you for your service to our community
Thank you so much Peter Thank you Yeah Uh my only thought is uh my personal view we should put it at Kulus especially if you had made a commitment to the friends of Kulis Why disrupt the
apple cart seems like we ought to be able to make a decision And my second thought I mean I don't really care but if it were me I'd make sure it was off to the side because when you pull into the coolest parking lot right now we're already This would be the second structure that's starting to block what
is an awesome view Okay The the shed thing which may or may not be permanent but that would be only my only thought Let's find a place that doesn't it's not the first thing you see when you pull into the parking lot But again that's not a strong feeling Do you have to have
it completed in the ground by a certain time no I'm 17 and I turn 18 next February So plenty of time Okay Yeah before then hopefully D do you have any comment uh I was I was just going to say I think this is the better location actually You like it
here uh yeah because I I I I think you actually do want people to see it you know pretty pretty quickly when when they you know park in the parking lot Um because then you know especially if they're there the first going there the
first time then they'll they'll see pretty quickly the information that's on it and you know about the site So that's just my opinion Should we do a sitewalk out there and take a look and decide where to put it and I don't want to hold him up Do do it quickly Yeah I think we
can before February Yeah you could Well I had one little comment Uh one of the things uh Tom is doing here is he wants to make this ADA accessible So we want to make sure that ah we can get from wherever the handicap parking spot's
going to be to here with a wheelchair That's the other constraint you're Yeah definitely Uh especially if you have to if you guys are switching where the parking lot's going to be if you have to move it up or down have that um in mind So is this Am I right this is
off to the right So this is as you're looking to the back Yeah You're going in and it's um you know that stone It's kind of like a a walk Yeah It's right in front of that And this is the trail that goes Yeah And that's the that that big huge oak is right right there Okay Okay
So that's off I like that spot Yeah that looks pretty good So if I understand it right your plan would be to dig the hole sona tubes crush stone and put the put that around the And no cement cuz cement is not good for um for that kind of Yeah
And that also means if we ever had to move it it's not that crazy to move something like that Um because it's not it's not loaded up with uh with a lot of concrete So So we need to determine where it's going to go Exactly Yeah Well I Well our agent gave a recommendation
I think I'm okay with it Okay I think I'm okay with that Yeah Do it So it's in front of the uh concrete pads Yes Yep Yep Yeah I think we we Okay We're getting all nods Off the boat Okay We're good Thank you everyone I think you're good You're good to go Yeah Very nice
Get that get that Eagle Scout award Yeah Congratulations Thanks Thank you All right Thank you very much for coming in I appreciate it So So if you could just send me an email when you're out there doing the work Appreciate it Thanks
Okay And um happy to have you stay uh as long as you want Good It's a good We're we're exciting We're very interesting here We're on the top uh on the on the chumps of Teledia watch list now Okay Coming up now we have the notice of intent We are now into the regulatory
section of our meeting Notice of intent Uh George Allen and Sun Construction Old Westford Road Assessor's Parcel 38-129-1 Steven Dresser DDresser Williams and Wei Incorporated uh representing the applicant And we have a
notice from uh Mr Garah Legal notice pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act Mass General Laws Chapter 131 Section 40 and the Chumps Wetlands Bylaw Chapter 187 the Chumps of Conservation Commission will conduct public hearing in room 204 at the Chumps of Town
Offices On Tuesday April 8th 2025 at 7 p.m to consider the notice of intent filed by George Allen and Sun Construction Inc on behalf of property owner Emanuel Lilla for proposed work within 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated wetlands at old westward road
further identified as assessor's map 38/block 129/ lot one The project entails demolition of an existing barn followed by construction of two single family homes and associated driveway access installation of associated rooftop and driveway drainage
infrastructure installation of utilities grading and landscaping Thank you Chris So hello Mr Dresser Hello Yeah Can you tell us about your project please sure Um Steven Dresser Dresser Williams and Wayey representing George Allen and uh son's construction
Uh they have applied to construct two single family homes on the site uh which had previously been a farm located at kind of the triangle where Graniteville Davis and Old Westford Road come together Um there is a drainage swale on the site uh which and there's bordering
vegetated wetland uh associated with the stream and a wet meadow on the Graniteville side Um but probably see some flooding Uh the site currently contains a 2440 square ft barn Um we're going to remove that barn The barn is
currently uh 8 ft from the wetlands So we're going to remove that uh restore you know most of the area that's a part of the where the barn is We'll have the driveway and some of the house but um we are restoring a significant part of the
inner buffer zone Uh on that uh the ho the house itself and the proposed development will meet all the required setbacks of the wetland bylaw 25 ft new clear other than the other than res restoring where the barn is Uh 30 ft no
impervious and 50 ft um to the building The project itself is is exempt from storm water management because it's a single family dwelling less than four lots Um there is however disturbances greater than 20,000 square ft but less than one acre Uh so we will be required
to obtain an administrative land disturbance approval from the DPW Um under under their storm water management regulations Uh in order to treat the storm water we're having uh we're putting stone around the driveway
that will have perforated pipe in it Uh and there'll be a gutter system that goes to the infiltration systems out in the backyard Uh the pipe from the driveway will also go to those infiltration systems Uh yesterday uh M Mr Coons brought to my attention that there's currently some
kind of flood study going on on this project uh that I'm aware of Uh he did send me a draft I understand it's a draft but the draft appears to be pretty close to what our wetland line is Um so I'm really not concerned about us in
that flood area um the where we're building and kind of the adjacent Graniteville Road between um this project and the fields our our development you know our basement floors are 3 ft higher than Graniteville Road
So in order for us to flood it'd have to be 3 ft of water on on the fields I'm pretty sure based on the topography out there that that that doesn't happen Um okay So really there there's that We'll have discuss We had a preliminary
meeting yesterday with Mr Counz Um and we'll take it from there Any questions we're here George Allen TJ Allen here as well Okay Thank you Thank you David do you want to comment on I know you had a site visit yesterday Yes So um and and
and I did uh express to Stephen and Mr Allen you know a number of concerns that I think the commission would have uh with this project um in in in particularly in particular you know his history of flooding um of you know
properties in the area and and especially where um the uh this there is this ongoing watershed study although although it's it's almost uh completed um I will I I will just bring that up So
um here's here here's the property that that I've outlined in um magenta here And I'll I'll blow this up a little bit Um so the
um so again this is this is from the study that Kleinfelder is doing Um and this is actually the the projected um extent of flooding for the for the 2070 10year storm And and the the the
dark blue here is um areas where there's expect to be 1.5 to 10 feet of flooding Um so you know as as I expressed to uh Stephen yesterday is that I I I think
that this needs to uh have a have a consultant take a closer look at this I think it I think it makes sense to have um Kleinfelder do that Um and and maybe maybe it will turn out that there will
not be a concern uh for putting houses up in this area which is where they're proposed On on the other hand I mean it's it's I I think there's in my opinion anyway I think there's sufficient concern So that I think doing
uh doing a further analysis on the the flooding I think is is is reasonable Um another another thing uh another issue that that I raised was the
um that you know both houses are pretty close to the uh the the minimum setbacks um under the bylaw This this house right here is 51 ft Uh this one is 56 feet So
uh in in in my opinion uh you know given given the tightness of the lots that I think a peer review of the wetland delineation should be done even you know again even though that's not typically done for you know single family
residential Um but again I I I just think that you know in in in this case it's um it's warranted And then then and then just just the other the other issue that I mentioned was um that I think there needs to be a wildlife habitat
evaluation that's done Um yes this this this property is um in between three fairly busy roads on on the other hand it is pretty high quality um you know aquatic habitat Uh you know I don't
think it's a vernal pool On the other hand I think you know there could be turtles that are resident uh on the parcel that don't migrate very far Um so I think I think that that that needs to be looked at Um as I mentioned to
Stephen I think there's a couple of ways that could be done either e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e either their consultant could do uh uh the habitat evaluation and and the commission's uh consultant could peer review it or the the commission could hire uh its
consultant at the applicant's expense to um uh do the wildlife habitat evaluation Um so I think I think those those are the main issues I raised uh yesterday Uh I I I you know there was
another question that occurred to me um a after the the site visit So um the the subsurface infiltrators um for for the roof Yeah off which which I which I think are good Um so have you
have you double checked or do you have an estimate of like you know the height above groundwater make sure they're because we have to bring in fill just because of the topography of the land that they're really close to the top Um soil conservation services um their
flood their soil maps show greater than 80 in We we haven't done greater than 80 in would be expected for the soil type there Um but in this area we have not done on onsite so water testing Okay So
I not anticipate a problem though Mhm You don't anticipate a problem no Okay Good Could you I mean I I think the commission typically likes some kind of estimate of that if you could Okay If you if you could do that you know even even you know going out and digging some
test pits now would certainly be the right time of year to do that I mean for for forgetting for the moment you know any any issues about the flooding any concerns about the flooding So those are my comments Okay Peter you want to start with questions i
could I follow up yeah sure I'm just wondering like what standard we're being held to here on the flood I mean you're talking about a a 207 10 year flood plane I I mean if we go out and do this study and and the applicant wants to
cooperate with everything but we do need to know are we being held to the 2070 10year storm and why mhm Well what I what I what I would suggest as a scope of services for the study is to look just at existing to look at existing
conditions as well as the 2070 uh because uh you know that this this figure right here I mean that's only the 10-year storm I mean what you know what what would it be for the 25 50 year or 100year storm you know what is what what
is it now for the 2550 or 100year storm i know I know it's not shown on the FEMA flood maps as being the 100red-year flood plane Um but one never knows how accurate they are Um so I you know if if
if if there if there's going to be significant flooding right now under existing conditions say in a 25 or 50year storm you know I I think the commission in my opinion the commission should have concerns about you know I I'm not even the least bit concerned
because Graniteville Road is not going to fill up with three feet of water So we're not going to do that That that being said and again we want to cooperate but it just seems you know unusual that we would have to pay a consultant to do something for a standard that we're not even going to be
held to You can't under the Wance Protection Act You know it's still you know a 10-year storm I think is 4.8 in They used almost 6 in for for this storm I mean there isn't a a
trigger that projects us out 45 years He said "You have to meet this standard So why are we paying somebody to check to see if that that's there well they want I mean and the other thing if they're doing this drainage study why don't we
just piggyback off of that why well that's that's um you know maybe that's possible Um you know I'll I'll speak to the consultant about that The only the only comment I will make about that is you see over in this area over here there's there's been properties over there that
were flooded I think a couple of those houses date back to 50 years and you know 2070 what is 45 years from now So I mean it's not that far a horizon to be looking at You know there it's just a
standard that you you can't hold us to You can't say that we think it was flooded more 50 years ago than it is now So we're going to make you well you look at what it's going to be like 50 years ago The weather man doesn't even know it's going to rain tomorrow half the time But they know what a what's going
to a projected 10-year storm See I've I've I've I've reviewed the history of um this this area over here The commission tried to deny uh back in 75 whatever The commission tried to deny at least one of those houses one of the
primary concerns being flooded and and of course was overruled by D at that point but it turned out to be a legitimate concern I think it would be a disservice I'm going to guess we're higher than those Okay Then then then the study then then
then the review will be that out Let let David finish please So so uh you're you may be right I mean the the review may provide a negative result I'm just saying that I think it needs to be done given given the concern I mean just look
just looking at this area uh and this figure I think there's a concern Yeah And and and in light of past history in the area as well Let me let me jump in also that the town has commissioned three different waterheds in town to be studied for flooding and this was one of
them and so this has been this is through the DPW So there there this is the three that are the most sensitive most you know most affected areas in town This and we're probably going to do more after this these three And so from our point of view we're
going we get a pre this presentation was before us two weeks ago and now we have a an applicant to put a project right in the middle of that that flood zone Just a coincidence are you sure well I you're right It is It is I I agree But it's kind of like wow Okay So we're we're
very sensitive We we know that the houses in that area have had serious flooding issues and we you know people have been before us in the last 5 years So there's been a lot of issues here So we're we're trying to do our due diligence by looking at you know some of these houses probably shouldn't have
been built there 50 years ago And so our concern is we don't want to make that same mistake twice Right But I can understand but I understand your comment of today Y and saying is is it viable to build a house there today as opposed to is it viable to build is if we build a
house there today is it what's going to happen 45 years from now understood We talk about the history and I'm not from Chelmsford but all my daughters have played soccer on those fields I don't think there's ever been street I don't think there's ever been three feet of
water on Okay So uh David uh I all set yep Okay Peter Um why don't we Oh yeah I just had four quick comments for everyone to think about Um in regards to the flooding um I think we're in a regulatory gray
area because you are and I'm sorry I missed your name Uh Steve Dresser Steve Hi Steve Steve's fine Um you alluded to this but I think we're in a bit of a challenge on the flooding thing because our regs are behind what's currently happening in town because of the increased rainfall So you guys are both
right There is some limit I think that we will find to what our regs will require the applicant to do But we also have a statutory requirement under our rules to avoid flooding The problem is we're supposed to avoid flooding by
using outdated data But even under your rules I'm sorry Let let him finish Let him Yeah we we can we can we can talk in a minute So I mean we are in a gray area Let's start there Secondly I'd be shocked if the Kleinfelder engineers I can't speak for them but I'd be shocked that it would
cost much of any money at all for them to look at all the data that they've already done look at your elevations and just give us some guidance So whether who pays for that we can talk later but I don't think we're talking about a $10,000 study We'll have
to find that out And then finally um I'd ask the applicant to be patient because as a taxpayer in this town we're being asked potentially to spend a million bucks to execute the plan that DPW just
proposed two weeks ago for this area alone And I know this isn't in the regs but you know we got a couple of houses that are flooding and now the taxpayers are being asked to shoulder potentially a million dollars to fix some flooding
problems for just a few houses So I would just encourage the applicant Uh to be patient if we sound a little gunshy Okay two more quick things Um there is a vernal pool across the street Uh I don't know if that's any of this is within our 100 foot buffer and I don't even know
how that 100 foot buffer applies when you got a road in the middle of it where critters are going to get squashed So let's just look at the vernal pool thing uh as we move forward Uh my three or four comments I think there's part of the structure in the 50oot no build but
I'm not too clear from the map I might actually be looking at an infiltration basin but going forward let's just take a look and make sure this thing really is in outside of the 50 foot no build Um actually five things Also the limit of
work is well within I don't know 25 foot buffer Anyway it's certainly within the 50 I don't know We need to take a look at at the limit of work because to me it looks like it goes way into the wetland So well okay let's talk about that later But I want to I want us collectively to
look at that And then the last comment I want to read from the regulations that we are legally obligated to consider Okay and I'm reading from the wetland protection act And I'm asking my fellow commissioners to think about this as
well as the applicant Um hang on a second I want to make sure I get this right So it says that any person coming before this commission must demonstrate two things
That the area being disturbed is not significant to any of the interests identified in the wetland protection act which is flooding You know what they are flooding habitat bunch of other things So the regs say the applicant is
supposed to tell us whether or not there's any impact on the interests and secondly uh the applicant under our regs I'll read it the proposed work will not contribute uh will not impact the interest
identified in the act So I think that's where you might be coming from David is the the fundamental question I have is what is the net impact if any on habitat and maybe it's nothing I I believe your regulations say that presumption is overcome provided that you meet the
setback requirements I think if you look in the buffer zone section of your wetlands it talks about what what you read but then it goes on to say this presumption is overcome if we meet the 25 So that's why that's why I made the comment that my first my first Hang on
So there's a presumption that we overcame it I know No I got it I got it I may have read it wrong but when I went through the drawings um it looked to me like part of the project including the limits of work were way in way too far in towards the buffer land The the only activity that's
within the 25 foot is the removal of the barn removal of the barn would be exempt under your bylaw because it's the removal of imperous area replacing with with vegetated area Understand that So none of the when when all is said and
done there won't be any activity within 25 ft There won't be any impervious area within 30 and there won't be a building within 50 provided that the wetland the peer review Yeah So so you know how this worked These drawings came to this
commission what 3 days ago so forgive us We need to look at these issues is what are my comments Um and I think that's all Thank you Peter For the chair can I go through this list or Sure why don't we do that okay Um I'm still not sure on
the flood study and the money I mean am I supposed to do a flood study and then they're supposed to peer review it because if you're talking about that then we are talking about a a multi,000 flood study Um no I I I I think I think there's uh enough
information already based on what you have submitted and what has already been uh gathered during the watershed study I I think that that the consultant Kleinfelder uh who's working on the watershed study has enough information to be able to give the information give
the commission the information that uh that I feel it needs um in in in particular just need to need to look at you know what what are what are the flood elevations as I me as I mentioned but I can't I can't judge those without
doing a flood understood so I I think that's that's what we we'd ask Kleinfelter to do okay and again given all of all of the information all the data all the modeling they've already done it shouldn't be that difficult I mean I mean I haven't spoken to them yet
but but they should be able to do that and And and let's just say for the sake of discussion and this could be totally wrong let's just say for the sake of discussion that the um saying that the the 50-year storm that there's the flood
elevation um uh runs through the middle of one or both houses You know I I think you know the commission needs to think about you know how to handle that Um Okay I I don't foresee that Oh okay Right But if I could put a C can I jump
in just I don't think we want to get in a big discussion here I certainly don't But um I'm just I'm you know you you now understand how little I've actually had a chance to understand your drawing So forgive me But the Kleinfelder study says there's going to be 10 ft of water under a 10ear Let's not say that It has
a dark blue area as tabled as being between a foot and a half and 10 feet of water So anything that's 2 ft of water The bottom of that brook is not 10 ft below Graniteville Road So there's not going to be 10 feet of water on this property They they just it's just a section in
the table you know zero to 50 Well this is my whole point I I Okay slow down Slow down I don't I don't want to argue but here's the point Here's the point I'm not a hydraulic engineer I have a question I don't want to approve of a project that's going to create the same flooding problem as we're going to hear
about in a minute I think okay from a neighbor So the way to do that is some good engineering and science Your applicant is fortunate The town just spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop that hydraulic expertise Let's just ask a simple question Let me
keep going Let me keep going Let's just ask a simple question and get it answered And secondly I think we need to look at what our legal obligation is because you you did make some good points here You know there are some limits on what we could legally require So we obviously don't want to go beyond
those limits but we also don't want to approve of a project where we're going to be here in five years with another neighbor right upset about flooding And just just one more you you talked about patience and certainly we're we're willing to do that but the wild card here is it's under a purchase and sales
agreement and the seller isn't you know he's not somebody who's expressed patience at this point So well no don't don't take it That's not our problem It's understood but not our problem We're not the housing authority We're the conservation authority You know that Peter are you all set i am Sorry I'll
show Chris Um yeah just um uh we just got the diagram but if we could get something for our next meeting something kind of like a larger size We we do have Can we print those or don't we have um Yeah I I have a couple I can Good Good
That helps Maybe a couple more I can bring as many as you'd like Let me pass You want here good Because I know that'd be helpful for me and I'm sure my fellow commissioners Uh that's all I got for now Mark I I don't have a lot more right now
I do want to look at this and make an opinion of it that way Okay Any good for right now Bill um would you be looking for any waivers at all from us you don't require any
waivers right not to my No Okay Because you're exempt with the barn staring that down Yes Qualify We have to have a wetland peer review if one of the lines moves Nor did you flagging in January Flagging Okay Yeah You know we may make
an argument Let's let's say wetland flag 55 moves up and we're 51 now becomes 49 right i could see us coming in here and saying "Hey we're taking out a 2500 foot barn We'd like to see if we could get away with I think definitely need to do some
test pits where the infiltration okay things are going because 2 feet is the minimum we would ask for separation between the water table and the bottom of the pit of the
uh of those systems So we'd like to see that the test pits where those are going to be located that I'd be looking for that Um as far as the the other issues I think we could if
we put together a a list for the uh the people that did the study What's the name kleinfeld Kleinfeld Kleinfeld A list of qu specific questions that we're asking Not to do some grandiose study that's already been done
but specific to this these two house lots say "Okay is with the addition of two houses at this elevation with this and this and this with uh the information you can provide that you pretty much have already that they could
come up with a a conclusion and say from what we understand of this site of the water the issues we have with the water from the other uh houses flooding would this add to it
or be an issue for us to vote on Well yes I I I think um I think we need specific questions for them rather than some big grandiose I I think we I I think really all all we need is the flood elevations for that set of storms
that I mentioned And and if if it turns out that um the flood elevations in any of those storms uh is higher than where the propo the proposed houses uh or the
locations of the proposed houses then I think there needs to be some sort of compensatory flood storage you know and that's the commission is certainly allowed to require that I think that information would help us to decide if that needs to be added or so so and and I think
Stephen understands what what I'm proposing you know this the specific question I want I want to be have this move forward rather than get caught in a whirlpool where we don't get anywhere So if we know specifically what we're looking for if there's anything we can
do with this site that will relieve the houses on Grandal Road that have issues with the water Well well I don't know if we can see my opinion is I don't think that should be a part of the study I I think I think the the the commission's concern should
be just what's being proposed here and and and and and if any of these if either of either of both or both of these houses is proposed to be uh in in a in a flood zone then then that yeah that could potentially affect the
neighboring houses But again if the commission requires compensatory flood storage then in theory that should address right can I clarify something you said i think you meant that the town study should identify things to help
with the flooding situation but not this particular project right okay I just the way you worded it sounded like the study wouldn't do that but I think you meant the like a peer review or whatever Peer review I I think I think Well I think I again I think what we want is you want
flood elevations for uh that set of storms That's that's very specific Again I think Kleinfelder should be able to provide that information very quickly They have it Yeah they they they basically have it Yeah Um
so that's all I'm proposing Um I just want to leave this meeting tonight with a going forward to the next meeting I don't want to get caught up where at the next meeting going over the same thing we're going over tonight And these people come in six or seven
meetings We've got caught up in that before And this meeting shouldn't go three meetings tops I in my mind Mhm It's up to the rest of us Well let's it can't go on forever It's not fair to these people or it's not fair to we to
us So let's get the answers we need make decisions based on those answers and move on I I've al I've also expressed my opinion that I that I think a um the wetland delineation needs to be reviewed and that a wildlife habitat evaluation
needs to be done again whether you know let the applicant decide whether he wants to have his consultant do it or and then have the commission's consultant peerre it or have the commission's consultant do it you know just my opinion is that a question
let's let's get through here and then we'll come we'll circle Go ahead John I'm done Uh John I I agree with Bill that I I I don't want to get caught up in this If that study the town's doing can
come up with the right elevations then let's move forward Okay That's how I feel I mean you're talking the the finished first floor is three feet above Old Westford Road Yes The basement floor uh basement
floor Yeah Above Graniteville Above Graniteville is above Graniteville Yeah Well that's going to be a key thing I I would think so I I I understand totally where M Mr Kun is I think we're on the same page now that we know we're just looking at their flood study because I'm
really not concerned about the houses being in the flood plan Yeah No I think we should just move forward with that flood study and let's Okay figure that out Okay clarification Yeah sure John um I agree with what
you're saying but David were you also raising the question will the fill that we don't have a I don't have a good understanding Will the fill reduce the flood storage capacity another way to look at it is the town
just paid for the Kleinfelder study to give us recommendations to fix this whole flooding problem Uh but those calculations don't account for the flood storage that will be lost by the proposed fill I mean if I can
tell me how many cubic yards if if there is we we that's what we want to look at But that's that's that's the primary issue not whether the basement's going to flood If I if I can through the chair Yeah Through the chair Okay So Mr Dresser go ahead Yeah Um what this is really going to come down to is where
where is this flood elevation if we are filling in it not just the houses If we're filling in we're either going to have to change the fill or do some flood storage compensation I think probably if there's going to be any argument down the road it's whether or not you can exceed the current conditions as opposed
to the 2070 conditions But let's not do that argument tonight because I think we're going to be all right Yeah Okay Yeah And I I mean I don't know Just it seems to me like there's a bunch of smart water engineers working on this and we ought to be able to straighten this out without a big deal Okay All right So David your recommendation do
you have any any more response Mr Dresser nope So David your recommendation I I think it makes sense is to have Kleinfelder um do this uh the flood level uh study I guess we'll call it Is it a peer review
i guess Yeah I I I guess I think it's you could call it that because because again um we're leveraging Yeah Yeah I mean it's it's going to be you know the ele the elevation the proposed elevations of the proposed houses and the fill is going to
figure in to their review Yeah Okay So we're having them do that review Um I think we need to have a wetland peer review This was done with snow in the ground Um and just given all of the um the other issues I think it's worthwhile in this case to do a a peer review of
the wetland And then the third thing you recommended was a wildlife habitat review And I agree that that area I I know it well I live right not too far away from there Um yes it's busy roads but I see critters there I you know I think it's worth worth doing that
study to make sure we're we're we've got that done We've got that covered Are we all in agreement with those three actions i mean I agree on the first two for sure We got to double check on the wetlands line I mean Norse is a great outfit but
we got to double check that And I agree that we got to know our our flood elevations for sure The subsurface the wildlife habitat I mean typically we don't do that when we're dealing with just a couple of you know houses you know two houses We don't typically do
that for what it's worth I I'd like to do it I would I don't know I agree with you Chris Well can I can I throw something out it's been a pasture and there's been cows and horses
walking all all over for years Yeah Okay I mean I don't I don't know for two houses with that amount of land I don't know
Well can I throw something out Carl um back to the Kleinfelder and the flooding thing I mean I don't know if it's Kleinfelder or our town engineer One of our town engineers may actually have that knowledge but I would advocate something quick I think Kleinfelder has all the data right there Yeah But let's
not let's I don't know if we can avoid this Well let's try to avoid that long process of two weeks for a proposal and do then see if we can use the the big money the town has spent with Kleinfelder to ask them if they can fasttrack something And I don't know if we do that or or use our friends at DPW
to help us And then for the wildlife thing if we go ahead with that I mean my I would advocate something quick and dirty not a whole lot more than one of our peerreview experts to check the site quickly and give us an opinion I mean
I'm not in my mind it's not a a survey of turtles It's not a big thing It's something that can be done quickly so we can move this project forward and and meet your goal Bill which I agree with Let's move it forward I'm not as I agree with Chris as far as
the habitat study I'm not that's not high on my list as far as where the houses are going It's upland compared to the rest of the property in my opinion Uh we also it's a public hearing so we definitely want to get some public input
Okay So those are the Yeah thank you Those are the uh uh the main things Do you have a sense of what Peter was saying on the on a habitat study um I I I think um that a a qualified biologist you know one site visit could could uh
not a big parcel right i I I think I think you know again a single site visit probably less than a day should should be sufficient um for again a qualified biologist to come up with a a pretty good evaluation Um I the quickest way
would be for the commission to hire its own consultant Um you know again the commission my recommendation would be that the commission get it peer reviewed if you know if the applica with the applicant's consultant but you know you don't have to Um but I think I I I you know I know
some people will roll will roll their eyes when I say this but I think it could be good turtle nesting habitat I don't think there are any rare turtles out there but right you know two two houses could potentially disrupt that Okay All right So this is a public hearing so we're going to ask the if
there's any members of the public who'd like to come up and um and speak Uh I'm pretty sure we have at least one or two neighbors who uh want to come up Um I think they're neighbors Um if you give your name and uh I'm John
Carlson I live at 36 Graniteville Road I feel like I'm in front of the Senate committee anyway But uh um David if you could bring up the uh that map that had uh all the flood zones in it because then I think you'll appreciate Sir what's your name again john Carlson
Carlson Thank you Mr Carl Yeah I live at 36 Granville Road And this is where I live This is 36 This is for 34 This is where my neighbor crunchy lives Uh the neighbors prior to that were um Yeah Uh
Jay and Meliss Molly I've met them And then prior to that you know Mike Quinn and his wife Pat right okay Yeah And I've been in town for over a third of a century and lived in this area for quite a long time So anyway just when we heard about this project and we don't want to
stop anybody's progress here you know because we know progress is very important Um although you get a little bit of trepidation when you start talking about this because when this gets shut off
this gets bigger and I live here and he lives there you know so I'm perfectly good this being a wetland you know I'm all about nature and protecting nature and I want you know I live there so I know I see deer out there woodchucks
um tons of birds I mean there is wildlife there A lot I mean I'm not saying one deer like five I mean in a pop Also um all types of other wildlife Um but like the year ago you came out to
see us a year ago when we were having all those massive rainstorms that it was going 9 in a pop each rainstorm I mean there was a lot of pressure put on our foundations and in particular 34 I mean if they get bombed out even worse than uh when Mike Quinn was there you know
and he had his rounds with flooding So I'm grateful that you guys are doing these flood studies I'm very interested as an interested party what's going to happen with that And um I just don't want to I want to make sure that nothing cuts this off because really you'll be I
know it's just two houses and it's not like a hundred but it's two good citizens of the town of Chsford that really want the best for this town that you know get caught up in all of this And this isn't flat either You guys know
the town This is old Westford and it's a hill and all the runoff from the rain pours down this hill into this valley and it has to go somewhere And I'd like to see the water like
really have a a a bullet train where it could travel down to here without interrupting this wetland Okay And I'm hoping that's part of that flood study that we're going to see Yep Yes Yes I guess the final thing that I want to ask you guys too and
maybe think about it is I know the houses are going to be up here right but what happens to the rest of this land is this part of those houses do they own all of this and what's going to happen if something goes wrong here again i mean is it just going to be tough luck
for you guys over here like us so am I making any sense with this absolutely I mean I want I want you to know the concern that I have I mean I've had to canoe in my basement sometimes and it's it's it's it's expensive when you have
to have everything taken out Walsh cut up three feet make sure there's no mold and go through that whole song and dance It's a hassle you know and um Okay So I just I don't want to have that happen again It's gives me anxiety Plus I'm older I'm retired and I'm not getting a
check every other week so I don't want to see it happen So um I guess you probably want to get rid of me because it's like a little after 8 now but thank you for giving me time So Mr Carlson and anyone else I would recommend our last meeting um was the Kleinfelder made a presentation to us That's what I'm
really if you go back to the Chsters Teleia website you can find that meeting and you can watch it and it's the beginning of the meeting and it's about a half an hour 40 minute long Okay And you can see I mean there there two other wersheds in town that they were looking at as well Okay But they were
talking about this this property this this area and I can email you the presentation if you want I'll be happy to come down again Nobody wants me around anyway I'm retired So I'll pop in anytime you get that stuff from you you know Thank you All right Thank you very much for your time today I greatly
appreciate and if I could just add John to I mean that that Kleinfelder did a lot of work that reports All right Mr uh we have another uh another speaker Hi my name is Kranti Mananti Um I live at 34 Graniteville Road So I recently
moved 3 months ago and uh I have a small little younger Take all your time Yeah Thanks so much for uh David for all the flooding concerns I think you all already know uh my backyard already has experiences with frequent flooding and
uh known drainage failures behind my backyard So I've also reviewed the applicants drainage plan While it may meet most of the requirements for 1 in storm there's no overflow system or modeling or for any larger or bigger
storms which are increasingly common I'm concerned with this as it will it might send more water into an already overwhelmed system which is which includes all all of our horses uh houses 34
36 further impacting our property as well as our lives So I respectfully ask the commission to require downstream impact analysis and confirm the storm water controls are sufficient before permitting Thank you And the
reason I say all of this is because I don't want every day to go and check my backyard or even check my basement to make sure the house is good enough for us to live there Thank you Thank you Mr Machukati Thank you very much Can can I
make a suggestion yeah sure Yeah Um sir uh uh welcome to town if you just moved here and if you haven't had a chance to look at the study we're referring to and I think you'll find your our DPW engineers are good to talk to but
there's been a lot of work done It's just not completed So um I'd encourage you to continue You know you wrote a nice letter I think you hit all the right points Um some of that work is DPWs Some of it is conservation's role in improving new projects Some of it is
the current landowner wanting to develop it And there's plenty of room for any resident to uh educate themselves with uh these past studies And I think you'll you'll enjoy um seeing what the what what's being done and can figure out
from that you know what your next move might be But I think citizens do influence this town So pay attention Thanks Peter Thank you Okay So I think we know how to move forward at this point Um I I guess I'm not clear on the
wildlife habitat study Um I'm hearing mixed and um you got any thoughts on it i'd like to I don't want to go ahead with that I don't think we necessarily Okay That's an opinion All right Then I'm hearing informally uh let's not do a
wildlife habitat study So other than that I think we know the the marching The other thing you mentioned was the infiltration test pits where where the infiltration is going Uh you're going to have NOS is going to re flag uh check the you're going to check the flagging
from of that was done by NOS right peer review Yeah Yeah And then the other things were you going to check with the town or Kleinfelder i think you start with Kleinfelder and if they come back and say oh that'll be $100,000 then we'll say okay let's talk to Tony or the
DPW Yeah Yep No I think we want 8,000 We want a engineer that did all this work to spend a day studying the numbers Yeah Did you do any do any test perks to find out what groundwater level is no we we discussed that We'll we'll do that Yeah Yeah Is there a lot line between these
two homes yeah Yeah Yeah Am I missing it yeah it's on there It's on there This over and up Oh is that Oh that's it Over and up Okay I didn't understand It's because of the 80% upland
requirement or whatever that number is per lot That's why that's why there's an odd lot there Thank you Okay And could I could I ask our agent to help us on that vernal pool question because there is a vernal pool across
the street about 100 ft from this property Probably certified Well it's not certified but it doesn't matter really It's a PVP But it but uh again I don't know what the answer is It might be you don't want turtles crossing Yeah I know I know We don't really not that
road We don't Yeah Okay I Yeah I'm I I don't think putting houses here makes a whole I'm I'm I'm all for vernal pools and all that but I don't think there's I don't think there's a lot of impact there This this is not upland vernal pool habitat Right They're going to go
the other way Um Well and it's it's mostly open field Yeah Okay which is not upon pool So I think we're good to go here and so we're going to ask to continue this meeting at least to the next meeting if not beyond But let's shoot for the next meeting in two weeks
Does that work for you if that's what you want to do I would anticipate it's going to be difficult to get out in two weeks but I I agree We we don't mind we don't mind going to four weeks and try and wrap it all up and roll up our sleeves and get it done and just come back And so Mr Chairman I make a motion
then that we continue this um to four weeks Our next meeting scheduled to be May 13th So that's actually five weeks Five weeks Okay Well gives you another week We get another week to get things done Okay I think that's reason I think we should be able to get a lot done in that time I think that's good Okay So
motion from Chris to continue until May 13th Second Second from Bill All in favor i I Okay Motion passes unanimous Thank you very much for your your presentation and the discussion Thank you gentlemen and thanks very much to the neighbors who came in Appreciate it
Um we have next on our list we are oh this is back to our friends at 61 Smith Street This is the NOI This is continued from at least from March 11th It might be even longer I forget Um
and so we are um going to talk about hello the deliverables from Hello there How are you good Dave this is the same material Okay So nothing is new Uh they actually have the
plans but not the letter So so when I was at the last hearing the commission gave me a laundry list of items that they would like to see uh included in the package as well as uh plane plan changes Um so one of the
requests was or the concerns that the commission had was the driveway and the runoff uh specifically towards the adjacent property Um so as a result I had a professional engineer take a look
at the driveway the existing conditions Excuse me Moren I'm sorry I'm going to go get our other commission members Yeah Oh I didn't Yeah What's he doing out there anyways yeah I didn't I didn't didn't realize he
left I messed up [Applause] Funny He's funny Tail between his leg Huh he's got his tail between his legs All right
Sorry Maren It's okay Go ahead and proceed Sorry Marie No problem Um so one of the concerns was the driveway the runoff and preventing any type of surface runoff onto the adjacent property
Um the homeowner contracted with a professional engineer who ran drainage calcs and determined that a 100 foot long 2 feet deep twoft wide stone infiltration trench is proposed along the easterly side of the driveway Um we
provided an infiltration detail that's shown on the plan Um the commission also requested a construction sequence that's been added to the plan It states install the erosion controls per the approved plan
Remove unpermitted asphalt driveway and pavers LOM and seed hydro seed or sod the exposed soils Pour the foundation Construct the single family addition Install the plantings and apply for the certificate of
compliance Um the commission also requested that I provide uh a native plant list So that is also shown on the plan that I handed out Um minimum of two different native
shrubs 3 to four feet in height shall be selected from the list that's shown on the plan and we are proposing 10 shrubs Um a typo was corrected on the plan Morning Can I interrupt for Can we
please have quiet in the room and also Chris could are they still there um maybe they left that background noise was really I'm sorry It's okay Um there was a typo on the plan that was corrected and the last item that the
commission inquired about was the block wall So on the paperwork that I handed out to you I took some photographs of it Um it's really a decorative wall It's not a landscaped wall Uh it's stacked
blocks ranging between 17 and 24 in in height uh within your no disturb zone Um and I took some measurements with a tape and I tried to take pictures from different angles so that the commission can see that and confirm that And I'm
hoping this address everybody's concern and I can open it up to the commission David anything further um so um on that last point Moren so the proposal is to leave the wall there He would like to leave it there
Obviously it's up to the discretion of the commission It's easy to take down since it's not a retaining wall The commission requires that I don't see much harm in it but um that's up to the commission's perview Okay
I have nothing else to add Okay Um questions comments Mark yeah I I I'd like to I I think the wall disrupts the flow of animals what whatever goes through there I I don't want it all taken down but I
definitely want some opening support at certain intervals so it can be gone through I don't think it's a good idea to leave it there Well the wall So there is an opening between the wall and the shed
There's not a wall beyond the shed So at the rear of the property it's for the most part along the sides of the property Right I I live close to it I can Okay I know it Yeah but I'd like to see openings like every 20 feet 30 feet
maybe three or four feet wide Okay Could he have the option to take it down because I just think it's going to look He does Terrible Of course he does Yes Okay Yeah Right Sure I just assume take the wall down That's my Okay I I just I didn't want to make it any more
intrusive than I had to but if he doesn't like the looks of it I get that Could could I make a suggestion in terms of critter passage i mean some of the wall just goes over to a brick patio in the house That's not an issue Maybe there's some compromise where some of
the wall near the house isn't going to have any impact but some holes are made as you get to the back of the property right something like that right that that's the concern is the back of the property It it does go all all around the
How long is it it goes to the shed correct Yeah Just about There's a there's a small opening but yes just about And it stops again at the rear of the proposed addition or is
that on the uh let's see that would be the that would be the easterly side Yes Oh I see it Okay I think that's it I'm not sure Yeah Any anything from the I don't know I It's hard to put a determination
of where it's okay and where it isn't because I'm not there You know it all depends on the topo and what's what's there Mhm If if he's okay with taking it all down that's fine I think he's ready to move
on Okay All right Okay Problem solved Bill I would I would take the wall down too Anything else um no I appreciate the work you had done on it Looks uh my questions were answered So John no I'm
good I agree I think it's it's tonight's time to move on Yep Yep Okay All right I think we got all our deliverables and appreciate it Moren Very very much Chairman I move that we close our public
hearing Uh are there any more comments from the public more comments from the public Okay So motion from Chris to close the hearing Second Second from Bill All in favor i I Motion to close The hearing is approved
Now I'll take a motion to I make a motion that we uh approve the project with a order of conditions Are we asking them to take the wall down as part of the conditions coming down Oh that should be a special condition All right let's make that a special condition Yeah with the special condition of the wall
coming down Okay Were there any other conditions we've I think everything was in the drawing sequence of order that's in the drawing That represents it It's part of the document Yep Yep So I think I think we're good right i think so Okay So motion with that one special
condition Motion from Chris Second Second from Bill Any further discussion all in favor i I Okay Great Thank you Thank you very much Moren Appreciate it Thank you Maren Thank you to the applicant Okay Um we are done with the regulatory
section of our meeting Um I am going to ask that we can move up a presentation from U Becky Warren on the Warren Pole uh invasives um uh project that she wants to do or
it's a little park project Hello Becky Why don't you tell us about your project sure thing Had a chance to walk around the property a lot lately and uh I think folks are familiar You go to the next slide of the scene of the general
history of the place um 11 generations of Warren spending wonderful time out on those fields and there's a lot of special memories Some memories that I think I'd love for other visitors to the site to enjoy So if we could look at the next
slide I'd like to share a little piece of history that that was a camp that my grandfather built on the property Um he built it and then got married So it is where he started out his life uh as a married man and uh there were many
weddings at that property uh family picnics and it's right along the path of the woodland trail but you'd never know it when you're walking by Um next slide shows you in real time that's a picture of the camp and I I kind of hope that
that's my grandfather and my grandmother in that picture getting in that car Uh the car is actually on the other side of the camp and it's closest to the hill that goes down to the fields So next picture will give you an idea of the
view that you would get So this would have been in the 20s this photo This would have been in the 20s Yeah Yep This is not in the 20s but that was Becky when she was a lot younger Becky was in her 20s I might have been in my 20s there Right But that's the view um right
near where the car was there That boulder rock is still there today And you can see down to the hayfields from that location And that's just a very rough map showing um the property lines and the little circle of where the camp
is and the view down to the meadow So as visitors today take a walk through the Warren Pole uh property Next slide Uh this is what they see That's the place where the camp was
and it's filled with wyisteria And part of me says we need to correct a wrong because I'm kind of guessing somebody planted that wyisteria at the camp because it was very pretty at that time But now it has taken over
the entire orchard and all of that area Um next slide also shows some of the lovely bittersweet and some of the other invasives And there's the rock You can kind of see it on the right hand side picture Um but you can't really see and
get to it unless you're walking through the wister area So uh my family got together for a holiday and we have decided that we wanted to bring back part of that section of the history and let other people enjoy that view So next
slide Uh we talked about uh getting rid of the invasives My dad and my mom spent a lot of time uh every day out there cutting invasives over the many many years and then burning brush and all And that
hasn't been done since pretty much dad passed in 2015 So a lot of that has all those invasives have really taken over So what we'd love to do is take the wisteria the bittersweet the buckthornne multif floral rose and burning bush that
have all taken over that section where the camp used to be And uh conveniently over in the orchard just adjacent to it is where we've had brush burning piles in the past And the commission I believe has had some brush burning there So it's
really going to be the best way to get rid of all of that and not just put it in a brush pile because then it's going to spread the invasives and then making sure there's ongoing um maintenance in the area to keep all of that lovely
stuff at bay Next slide Um some of the way that we would do that would ask that um my mom wants to be part of this team She's 86 So we're going to ask if we can use one of some of our ATVs the farming
kind uh to help move some of those things and bring our equipment over so that she can be a part of this project Um so it' be using hand tools and chainsaws and moving some of the brush um over to an area that the conservation
commission agrees that we could put that uh that brush Uh next slide Oh there's the work crew Um that was at the dedication of the property But it's also not just Warren family I didn't get
to change the slide but the Pole family very much wants to be a part of this team as well Um David Pole just had his n or he will be 95 in a couple of days and we had a big birthday party for him this past weekend So we talked about
this project of clearing the property He didn't promise he was going to come out and help us but that's okay Uh he doesn't need to but uh and uh Steve Mlette um helps keep the orchard clear by doing the mowing of the paths to keep
that Thank you Um to keep the paths open uh keeping the ticks at bay Uh and he has offered to help as long as well as a few other folks that have said they would like to help with this So that is our proposal to ask the permission from
conservation commission to work on getting rid of invasives at the site of where the historic camp used to be Okay Thank you Thank you Questions john you have a question i think it's wonderful
Yeah Yeah That's my opinion Okay Bill I think it's great too I'd like to see where the house was the pictures you have If we had a kiosk to show people walk there they don't know that cabin was there right but if
we had a kiosk some of those pictures you have of how it looked Sure That'd be and that would help people want to maintain it over the years Sure Because they would know there was it's there was a reason why you're clearing that area
of the bittersweet and whatever That's true That's true So I think that I mean that to me that's is that is that tree still there that one is not um one of the bigger oaks on the other Yeah there's there's a smaller one there Uh
yeah my grandfather was married up there too That oak tree is no longer standing but uh two two of the siblings of the Warren of the 1920s got got married at the camp Well some of those trees probably came down in 38 hurricane Yes they did True I think it's a great idea
I'd just like to see us go a step further and and document document what it is for people probably a part of the foundation of that camp is still we could still find a part and actually um if you go there I need to go there
tomorrow but the there's a few daffodils that survive the I saw them today You saw them today So you'll see where the camp used to be because there's daffodils that still come up at the site of the camp Yeah They're It's amazing they've lasted that long They've lasted
We call them the Campils Campodil Mark Yeah I I think this is great I'm obviously in favor I think everybody else is also I have a question on on uh Actton Road at one point of
time Uh you had the the swale dug out I I I don't know if if Edwin did it or Franklin did it Did it help dry the field out is that what it was done for it did It did Uh that those are wet
fields Um and yeah get stuck right um so they did maintain the ditch through through there which connects with Putinham Brook right um and so they did clear that Uh Edwin mostly did that by
hand No kidding Yeah I helped a little but he did most of the work Were they hanging it then there Yes they were Yeah Wow Yep Okay I I just I go I remember when I was
used to go by see it dug out and they just left a dr They just right there Well and in the later years that was actually mosquito control uh central mass uh they came in that's they did maintain those
ditches in later years So when you saw the big piles that was really from their work Edwin's work would have been much smaller piles Okay Chris and this is great Becky this got a great project you know take out those
invasives We're 100% behind you on that and it's just a wonderful piece of jumpsuit history for all of us So thank you Great Peter Uh Becky good stuff I'd love to see a couple of your family photos with
whatever whatever words honoring your family you all feel are appropriate but it'd be great to have that on the kiosk or wherever Love to do it And Carl shared with me a list of flowers that one of your What was that your great So that was Edwin's sister My great aunt
Miriam Warren uh kept a diary of the number of plants that they found in the farm area 1913 if I remember I would think a lot of people in town would enjoy seeing all or some of that list on the kiosk as well Yeah Well it's
actually many many pages It's probably too long isn't it i think 250 species Yeah All right So maybe it's a Q QR code for the future that people can access to it right qr code And and I did have a I did have a a question though Um what do
you think will happen to the land once you remove the white bases are you hoping you'll get some native stuff that will make it would love to talk to you folks about what n if you are looking to whether you'd like to plant anything to
to thwart the I mean we're going to try to keep at it but you know you leave it alone for just a couple of months and we know that it's all going to go back so it'll be a quest Yeah So so I'm no expert but I have this vision of a couple of us taking a truck out to
Central Mass and buying those lovely $12 you know three- foot tall native shrubs at New England Wetland Nursery Because they're pretty inexpensive and planting them And I don't have any specific plan but that would be fun because I think we
talk a lot in town about removing invasives but And then what do you do when it's placed yeah What happens next that's the vacuum is uh you Yeah You create a vacuum and nature of and nature takes over Sure That's a good idea Peter That's a really good idea Maybe we as a commission could help support Yeah Yep
And I'm hoping the foot traffic if people take that diversion on the woodland trail will help because I have noticed that the trails are in pretty good shape just with foot traffic going on them So that will help a little too And and I don't want to belabor the point but at some time in your family's
past I bet there were no invasives So maybe it could be made like a little demonstration-y kind of of what's possible project to highlight Sure I don't know Right now it's got all the usual suspects on the site pretty much
It's now it does right but even when that picture was taken that we did there was no burning bush there but it was a lot of maintenance And then the cows of course grazed on a lot of this area so they kept it down Uh we didn't have the
invasives until the cows left in the mid in the early 1970s Okay Okay Yeah So I think uh I'm I'm hearing full approval for your project We don't have to we can we can vote if you want but I think I'm seeing all positive comments So I think
just move on ahead and um keep us appraised of the process progress and um I I'll be out helping let me know when I'm happy to help I love visiting that site and helping out on that kind of stuff Great And um I know there's a big huge log that um we're going to have to I think Steve can take care of that with
his uh claw tractor and a chainsaw We can get that um dispositioned cuz it's massive It's big and in the way You know which one I'm talking about I do know which one you're speaking of Okay Okay Thanks very much for your support Appreciate it We love seeing this Thank you Becky
Um Okay Let's go back now in our agenda to the gap analysis questionnaire from Peter and Mark Well Peter short version is um Mark and I put together our answers I guess they're ours right oh Peter put to the
questions Uh and Mark forwarded it to his fellow uh inmates Yeah Anyways over over to uh somebody at Charlesford Water your board or the Yeah the director Yeah So they I'm sorry They didn't get their own They weren't asked
They didn't receive the the paperwork as of that last time I spoke with them There's a gap in the gap analysis Yeah To me but but I don't think we but I don't think we've submitted it formally At least I haven't So I was waiting to see well
other comments or well the consultant is looking for something from the conservation commission Right Right So is that is that ready they gave me a draft I got this from the water district This is about three weeks ago A draft of what oh Of what they wrote Water No No
That No that's that's a draft the consultant prepared isn't it well if we So just to back up a Oh it does say the water district's here Well I think we were Yeah thanks Carl It's up to you how you want to proceed I I just want to frame it This is the gap
analysis that the town is asking the town the board of health is asking a consultant to do for all of the water protection regulations and bylaws in the town across planning board
conservation board of health uh water district I don't know if I'm missing somebody DPW storm water and just trying to reconcile and look for overlaps and gaps that's that's the I believe That's roughly the the objective of this gap
analysis And so we've been asked to contribute our issues with those gaps and Peter and Mark have been asked to lead that for for us representing us Thank you Thank you So just to frame it Thank you And then there's a draft that
I think I emailed to everybody Sunday but let me tell you just a little bit about it I went ahead and answered the questions in the questionnaire So my thought was Well that's what he's looking for Yeah So I
didn't do an I didn't really I tried to What do you think you read it I tried to put in some of our recommendations or challenges but I was mostly trying to answer their questions So I think there's another step and let me describe that Um I mean the thing ended up being
you guys saw it four pages long but I just was trying to answer his questions and I actually did edit and take a bunch of words out I'm wondering if we as a commission want to write a very short summary which I think the words are already in the four pages but it's not
in one little paragraph saying "Hey this is what we really need to do our job." And I think the whole tone of what I wrote is like that you know we have an obligation on the clean and um here's what we kind of need from other boards It's in there but it's not summarized in
like a short paragraph Or do we wait and see how this process moves forward i don't I don't have a clear answer But either way our thought was we owe it back to the consultant in 10 days So we've got a few days if anyone wants to look at it and
make recommendations like we can do anything you want to it Um or if you don't we can just have Mark and I wrap it up formally and send it to I think the instructions are send it back to the consultant Yes Yeah Sorry So anyway I
the simple path is we'll send it back to the consultant in about 5 days or before the 18th And if you all want to comment before the 18th Okay You know just send me an email or call me or Mark I think there's a there's a lot of information that you put in Oh yeah I I don't know
if uh if there's any redundancy with the water district or anybody else That's fine That they should hear it twice if they have to Okay that's that the water district If they have the same issues we do they should hear that Yeah And and but there is a couple of next steps though I maybe I should put a finer
point on just a couple of what I see would be helpful for us to think about Right There's the big question that we all been talking about What is the process you know the water district does their thing and you know board of health does their and there's coordination meet I think we all feel is needed so the
position I took was look we do have legal responsibility to protect groundwater to protect drinking water it's mentioned twice and to prevent pollution and flooding and flooding um
so what the piece really says says is look we have this obligation but we don't really have the strong regulations in town Those regulations sit mostly with board of health but also planning board in the aquafer protection permit
So what my piece really says is look or this is our decision either we need to grab a hold of some of these issues and just say we're going to require you know contamination studies and all this other stuff or we need to go with the flow under the current structure but have a
better understanding of what these other boards are doing because that's really why we spent so much time in this room on like 270 and the brick projects because it wasn't clear who was looking
at what and and I pushed the issue because we have a legal responsibility to prevent pollution and make sure the groundwater is not polluted but we don't really have the legal authority So that's one one of the two points The second point I kept saying I think you said it read all right I kept
saying look the bottom line is we the town needs good technical analysis I don't know if something is going to contaminate the drinking water unless a hydrogeeologist does some studies and some are starting to be done but we
don't know how those studies are being done and if they really answer the question and the same is true of the contamination studies I think you recall the consultant came before us on Hilddrth with some contamination information that was not didn't really
answer all of our questions So we need to have a good we need to have some input to whatever technical analysis is done by these other boards in general like a good clean scope of work Here's how we're going to do these but we also
what this piece says we need input on each specific project So for example when a project comes into town and it gets shut it off shunted off to peer review Well we need to provide input to what's being looked at rather than
waiting three months or whatever it is two months for a peerreview study and then somebody might like me goes "Well what about this?" Let's try to get the what about this questions out on the table early to the technical expert Now that may require all of us you know to
think ahead of time but I think you know to Bill's point moving these you know hearings forward I think that would help us So that's kind of what this thing says but I think you might have to read the whole thing So that's one question I have is maybe Carl you and I Mark can work at that offline Do we want to be
more direct or just simply answer the questionnaire with all this stuff woven in i think I think you've you're from my point of view you're on the right track with what what are issues we've identified in the last two years of hearings that have to to your point We
just sat here way too long too many times went in circles and we all were recognizing we had these issues And so it's good this gap analysis has come along and I really appreciate the work you guys have have done and I'm good with you just kind of buttoning it up
making it into a good um you know a good response to them And uh All right Well I may I may take the liberty happy to read through and you know comment but uh yeah so I'll wait a couple of days if anyone has any comments the last version you sent out Sunday then yeah all right so
I'll look it over and get you guys it's a rough draft but it but it's got the stuff in it I'll get my my comments back to both you guys yeah we can change anything and Mark I hope I wasn't too mean to the former water district staff because I used 270 as an example of things that we shouldn't do with street
I never got a good answer on having no subject systems on the property they have They're going to be detrimental to the water Jim we don't know We never got an answer from that Yeah And I And by the way I' I've been trying to learn more about this I think
there is a fundamental disconnect in the whole wetland protection act because they tell us to protect aquifers but then they don't say you're you can authorize a phase one contamination study right that's over at Board of Health I mean that's the fundamental issue that we might think
about if we get around to looking at our regs Yeah I don't know how far Chris but I I think Lassard seems to be the right the right consultant to do this I'm I'm not thrilled about how this seems to be dragging on the process for how it's happening But I think he has the expert
or the the firm has the expertise from what I'm what I see Yeah But we'll see We'll see I'm I'm hopeful but I'm I'm I have to say I'm a little little um skeptical at the moment But we'll see But but again I without getting into the
details I can envision a bunch of things we could do with our regs For example and but we should do it with other boards For example applicant should give us a list of all the environmental permits in town but also outside of town that they think their project
needs So right off the bat if it's a contaminated site the D you know hazardous waste stuff gets at least on that first list Not we're three hearings in when somebody goes "Oopsy." Yeah And that could be a simple checklist that we ask the applicant to submit to us and the planning board You know here's
here's the regs that we think apply and maybe couple words as to why Okay So anyway there's a few things like that we could do also down the road Okay We good we good on that thank you I appreciate it Mark Peter thank you very
much No it's important Yep Um you're up next also This is the next one is the $4,000 to acquire the Gala Rukella beetles Again talking about invasives at Warren Pole So purple loose strife was loose was went went
crazy at Warren Pole this past year And um so the the beetles have been effective in the past at other sites You you said in the River Meadow Brook it's been used uh and other other places in in the state It's been used here in town It's been used all over the state Yeah
it's been very effective Very effective Yeah And I think that the cher story is interesting I don't I don't know the whole story but I don't know maybe 10 years ago uh one of David's predecessor I think and some others in town I Dave
Sperry is here he might know about this too But there was a project to introduce these beetles to one of the wersheds or maybe two of them and lo and behold the beetles ate all the loose strife and those wersheds are largely free of purple loose strife and the problem is that's they it's very aggressive plant
so nothing else grows and the birds and the well actually the bees I think do get pollen but in general they don't provide food and habitat valley and all that stuff So you know the a lot of other commissions are trying to get rid of them And what you do is you you grow or release these special kind of beetles
So I just found an outfit that'll send us beetles How many Beatles well,und their advice and they they are doing some other towns in Massachusetts I don't know which ones Um but they sounded the person I talked to sounded like there
was more than just like a salesperson Sounded like they had sounded like they had expertise and they said um u 150 bucks an acre 150 beetles or maybe it's a hundred in a box and you can order how many boxes you want So if if Warren Pole
for example oh and the other part of the story is our I got interested in this because Carl you made the comment to me about the loose strife and we all probably saw it You know first year they stopped mowing mowing Warren Pole it was full of uh golden rod and Joe Pyweed
which is hardcore natives I mean talk about a pollinator garden That whole field was full of it was beautiful for two Yeah two years ago It was really really nice But then the loose strife will dominate and take over So you made that comment And uh so the thought is um their advice was an aggressive approach
If you have whatever 30 acres I don't know if that's the right number Uh then it's one box for 150 bucks per acre That's where the $4,000 came from I don't know if that's 30 acres But the woman who seemed to know what she was talking about also said "Well you know
if you don't have that much money they do reproduce." So you could start with half the property and or half the Beatles for half the property or any combination And so I my attitude is if we're aggressive and have 4,000 bucks or whatever the
right number is let's just do it because they will migrate down the watershed to other places I guess Um and if we don't have a lot of dough or we're a little hesitant let's try a few acres Your call So let me let me frame this a little bit by saying let's discuss if we think this
is the right thing to do before we talk about the money because they're two different discussions So let me ask the board your comments or your concerns of using these beetles here which have been used in town by the commission Chris uh
Bill do you remember this with I don't remember this Uh I want to say 15 years ago I'm trying to remember her name That was the Corey Rose Cory was I believe the agent although she might have just been No she was on the board She was on the board rather Cory was on the board
Cory was on the board I know that there is a directory here somewhere Anyway it was done The commission The commission agreed to it I think it's a good idea Purple stripe is a huge Where are you going to try it first at worm pole in the right in the main the main meadow
Yeah let's let's do it I'd like to do it somewhere where you're going to actually see the difference You'll see it If it worked you'll if it works you'll see it It'll be Yeah And if it works we could try some other if we have other I don't know that we have any other sites that are that bad Um there may be some at the
cranberry but I don't remember seeing it that bad out there Spring I think we had a problem up there Maybe it might be but Warren Paul it was it was very very noticeable last year It I had seen it the year before and probably the year before that a little bit and probably
that was the time that we should have done It would have been a lot smaller amount It was it was bad in a lot of places suddenly last year I'm not sure why Okay So I'm hearing I'm hearing general agreement Okay So that's one thing So then what I would recommend is
that we Okay up to $4,000 as as a commission 4,000 is too much I think Well let me let me try this way Um David and I are working trying to get Oxbow um to give us a proposal for invasive management on the site for
other things beyond this And so what I'm thinking is that if we get that packaged with something here we can go to the CPC and and ask for CPC money because this is improvements I'm not a 100% sure this will fall into
the CPC guidelines I think it is because it's improvements to a to a conservation a CPC acquired property So I would believe it is Um I don't think it would I think I'm more inclined to say probably 2,000 is probably what we need But then if we have some more money that
we go for for Oxbow for doing things like burning bush and and bittersweet and wisteria because the wisteria that Becky's going to get in her little area there's a whole lot more and there's burning bush up and down there So um if we can agree that we want to move
forward and then we can work on the in the background on figuring out how to pay for it So maybe maybe we go with 2000 as as for for specifically for this and and we'll try to come up with we're unfortunately OctoPo is kind of like
we're trying to pull from them They they you ask for a quote and four weeks later they still haven't the quote but but I but I think this really should um get some professional expertise Yeah You know to assist and they would have
this expertise So they have done that The Beatles you mean prior Yes Okay Y So do we want to I think I can verify this I think the order has to be in by May 1st and then the release date is like
later in May Okay Well we don't have the money right now We don't have the money right now Well if we place an order let's let's let's from from this point of view let's approve it as a as we want to do this and then let's see if we can figure out how to get money and I think
it might be we can't we can't it might be waiting till next year Yeah but next year's July 1st right right So I wonder if we can Well I I sometimes Paul and Darene can be creative So how about the right reservation money yeah Is there a problem in the right
reservation it doesn't grow in the shade much Yeah Yeah It's not right reservation You don't have to use the money Oh Oh the wrong site You don't have to isn't it yeah Yeah You don't have to use it on that site I mean it's priority and we are using that money So
well ecologically it's essentially the same property Yeah It's the water comes from from the right preservation Yeah Um I'm just saying it's a source of money Again let's just say in principle we're in agreement We'll we'll see if we can figure out a way to get the funding for
it And so my thought my thought I don't know how this is done in town I'm happy to front the money on my credit card if that expedites things I just obviously don't want to be left hanging Yeah Yeah I don't I don't I don't want I'll work with you guys offline but that's not I
wouldn't do it that way Yeah I wouldn't do it that way All right But I don't want to I don't want to like I don't want to get wrapped up into a four-week approval with CPC and then the deadline Let's see if we can figure out a way David's not being very optimistic but um I'm I'm reading his his facial
expression but we'll see what we can do Well there's always the possibility that some citizen might just order a couple boxes of needles and they might just happen to fall out of What's the urgency to do it this year you never know Yeah What's the urgency to do it this year get it done Yeah Well ratification
Habitat baby Habitat Yeah Yeah It'll be even worse next year What's the urgency i don't know No I mean it's it's been getting worse and worse and I don't know Well I I honestly I think this going after the invasives is a great thing to do It should be one of our highest priorities really as a commission
Totally agree We've got the Warren Pole task force moving forward We can join the cause and get some momentum going So I mean I think it's a good thing to do Exactly And and if I could just add we asked the question you kill the invasives what happens next we know the answer because we saw it two years ago
Yeah it's full of seeds of these other get more invasives different invasives Well all right Some things come back Some things come back There's that question But the idea is the beetles live there It's not like the bittersweet right where you got to come back every year and Yeah tend to it
Yeah All right So we'll we'll do our best to figure it out but we have tacid approval here Uh okay So let's keep moving here Tree removal policy So Mr Gary Han I wanted to bring this up and and honestly um so I'm not a big Facebook guy but recently I saw a
posting of Dave McGlaclin our former Dave Mlacklin do we know that name long time commissioner had just made a comment about you know we as a town really want to focus on kind of uh limiting some of the loss of trees And there's a project right now um you know right on North Road where we saw a lot
of trees being cut down And I was also familiar with an article recently in the l sun about a a project in oh in l where they had a you know a large number of acres of an apple former apple orchard was just cut all down and you know that's that's a loss and we as
conservation people know the great value of trees to the environment to our habitat to all the values that we're trying to protect So you know I I really think and we maybe not decide today or figure it out today but I think we really need to take a look at what are our options as far as
protecting trees in the town How can we work with like our colleagues over in the planning board and and some of the other concerned citizens that we have and what can we do to come up with a a policy where you know let's look at some examples other towns have done and maybe the success stories out there
I think it's a good time for us to you know bring that forward under our kind of land management responsibilities of really focusing more on on protecting trees So I just wanted to bring it to the commission tonight and kind of bring it up because I I I know there's going to be support from the from us on this thoughts Yeah And the the the tree
committee has been working on that very question It's not ready for prime time but um couple members have been looking at other towns And if I could give you a quick example um in Weston a bunch of people went down this road and came up with a
too strong of a town ordinance that was a bylaw change and got voted down It was you know the residents didn't It was too I could tell you what it was It doesn't matter But other towns have different policies that are working So I thought I would get get the tree committee revved up to offer the planning board and this
group and select board um a short chart of I don't know four or five other towns and what specific terms are in their tree bylaw And then the second part of that is I think you guys know this but there's uh $200,000 of grant this year
that the tree committee is working on with our tree warden And the first is we're going to plant um well I should say we a contractor under supervision by DPW and the tree committee are going to plant about 70 trees this spring 25 at the dog park a whole bunch along the
entrance to the high school and and Christine Clancy's got some other spots And as part of that Thanksgiving forest well there may be extra trees We'll come back to that Okay Um this is a little bit of a tangent but part of it a fellow came to the tree committee and he's put together a
memorial tree program that he wants to advocate So there's some other pieces to it Um but the the thing is this is a and there's another batch of money to do a consultant study of 26 mi trees at 26 miles of scenic roads and invasives and
and give us an inventory of the trees because Christine would like to start putting public trees on their GIS as a layer but also give us recommendations because you know the ash trees are dying off from the bore and the you know there's problems The trees aren't in distress So that study probably won't be started till later in the summer But
those are two chunks of money this year And so that's the second half of a tree program is okay what are you going to do next year at the moment there's no money Near as I can tell the money we are spending on trees we're spending to cut them down not plant them The the what we
talk about here at this board So that's sort of the big question I could use bigger brains on Do we somehow get and it's the wrong time I know fiscally to be asking for 50 grand a year to plant trees but uh that's the question Uh I I
I think um a really good study that uh would be good to do if the funding can be found and probably would be supervised by the tree committee But look at all the properties in town like this 150 North Road that was just clear-cut I mean I can think of two or
three others right off the top of my head Look at look at all of those properties that are currently wooded but are vulnerable to to development and look look you know uh develop a database of all of them and say uh look at what
if they were all clear-cut You know how how how much of a percentage of the town's tree cover would be lost and you know what is some possible um environmental impacts to that I think that that would be a really good study to do if it could be done is as a
baseline Yeah And and there is in the new town strategic plan has a tree canopy project in it that no one's yet our town manager may have ideas but I I don't know if anyone's really talked about how that's going to be implemented
But in theory one of our you know town master plans calls for doing additional work beyond this year's projects I just mentioned So my thought is yeah let's take a look at you know bylaw changes and whatnot Take a look at our own regs because we talk a lot about trees here
So figure out if we need to change any of the town regs or bylaws but at the same time think about this broader question of you know tree management and and and and so forth And I think the you know the tree committee is ready to do stuff but it's not really a it's not a regulatory board like this one or the
planning board so can be part of the solution but I think the the bigger machinery of town would be better off addressing this question So I'm glad glad you brought it up At the same time I know we're looking at the bylaws our you know reviewing our bylaws and regs So maybe we can fold this in you know
work with the tree committee in this particular area And I mean we we're going to have our jurisdiction So we're going to be able to you know we're going to be able to protect our resource areas including the buffer zone So we can take a look at it from our bylaw and regulations to see what we can do maybe you know we can strengthen the
protections of the existing trees I don't think I don't know enough about the law part but our bylaws uh relative to the wetlands and and the that resource area but we're talk I'm concerned about upland as well And I
don't know that we can't it nothing says we can't put a conservation commission bylaw about upland tree protection right i mean it would have to go through I don't think there's anything that would say you can't do a general town bylaw about protection But but I think if you're going to ask if you're going
someone's going to go and ask the town to pass that I think you have to have the study You have to have the the data to say well if we don't do it what's potentially at stake yeah Because the problem I like that idea because the problem the problem these other communities have run into I mentioned Weston but all of the bylaws we looked
at you you know what they say if you want to cut a tree bigger than whatever 4 in you have to get a permit And there's an online permit thing and you have to either replace the tree or kick a couple hundred bucks into the town tree fund Well a lot of property owners
aren't going to like that So there's a whole Right Right So you got question of what the town you got to find the right balance Right Yep Yep Yeah And and some towns go overboard and some towns like us we don't have a whole lot there We you know it's kind of like we just look and go oh I think opportunity for us to
move you know towards a more protective Yeah policy of the trees but not go crazy you know we're not Carlile we're not some of these other communities but we might be able to move the needle to a little you know we don't want the clear cutting going on Right Right Right And then and then just one other quick thing that the the committee's been talking
about a lot is it's community values I mean you know the trend to have a big green lawn you know are you going to tell a fellow resident they can't have a big green lawn they got to keep their trees I I don't have an answer to that question but that's kind of what why they think there's going to be times we're going to have to say that You know we're we're doing you a favor We're
saving you from having to mow that acre of grass week after week All right Yeah So there's a PR part of this right so Chris I appreciate you bringing this up I wanted to bring it up and I think we just got to keep it in in front of our minds And I like David I like your idea We have to approach it that way We can
get an intern or somebody to to to look into something like that Okay let's move on Uh we got a few more things on our agenda here Um we have the continual business This is the update on Freeman Lake parcel boundary surveys So
um I went out there Bill you and I were out there Anybody else go out and look um this I think what we're Bill and I came up with we're suggesting is uh the two Let's see On the right side I think there's three Oh on the right
there's two Okay Yeah So on the right side that's the closest to Route 40 on on uh what's the road will uh Willis Willis So there's two at that end and that's where we had the the question about the dock And so we think both of those it
makes a lot of sense to make that really clear And then at the very far end is that one point um spot and then that goes out to the water to that second one out at the water So that's the fourth one And then I think it was that fifth one right
there uh just next to the point one Yeah on the left I think that's we said beyond that everything else is on the road that you know if we have people parking along the road that's an issue whether or not the marker is there or
not It it that having a marker isn't going to change that We we need to address that one way or another So that's four times 275 So you're up to we're talking about money So we're already up to 9 what 950 or a,000 bucks whatever Yeah
Oh yeah A little over a thousand Over a thousand Yeah So um Okay Does that make sense and and keep in mind there's more property more parcels that we may have to do at least at least one or two or probably two at some of them um to do
that So this isn't the first one I think we're not I think this is probably a fiscal year 26 spend Yes Um but I can I can I can go ahead and just confirm the estimate uh with the surveyor and you know who knows by the time they're
actually able to get out there and install them we could be in a fiscal year 26 already Yeah So yeah So the other thing we noticed is that there were a number of boats Um there were quite a few boats three or
four boats and canoes and stuff on the property What we all remember or some of us remember from three or four years ago when this was in front of us before that we were asking everyone that had those boats to you know they could leave them there during the season but by November
1st I think it was or 30th or something they had to be they had to be removed from the site that didn't happen this year So my suggestion is that we let things be for the moment We get these markers put in this summer We get some signage put in and then come next fall
November when we get to our date that we've got posted We put um you know the sign will say things have to be removed We'll come up with some kind of signage And then anything that's there afterwards we put like an orange tag on it and say you got 10 days to get this off the property or it you know it's
owned by the conservation commission and we'll have to enlist the DPW Do that Well the DPW will disposition it or something I didn't want to do that either I mean they're not gonna Okay Something has to be done I think we have to do something I mean it can't be leaving that stuff there all all the
time We always worried about that We don't have a a bite for our back Yeah Are are um We don't have a bark Are the boats on any of the boats that are there on trailers well so there's some trailers Little kayaks It's not on
our land though Yeah but the trailer see weird Uh there's you know the land It's I know I've been by Yeah So we may actually think about putting up Bill and I are talking about putting up a um and David a uh like a split rail fence or something because there is a car that
some we think one of the neighbors is parking on on on not our property but they're crossing our property to get to it and it's like that shouldn't be and so you know if we put a fence up then you know what is it fences make you know good fences make good neighbors or
something or but back but back to the boat thing Are we talking about letting folks just have kayaks and canoes yeah we've done that for years and we let them leave them there for the season How about a How about an Eagle Scout town
kayak rack uh completely serious That could be So they're not like spread all over except that they're they're all very inconsistent There's like there's like a paddle boat there's a canoe there's a Yeah Oh paddle boat is a little different Yeah they're they're not it's not like there's five canoes
all there But there's no boats on trailers Not on not on our property No So So it's probably uh the owners are residents of the neighborhood Yeah Oh yeah Yeah Probably not destination parcel for I don't think it's people in South
Chumpsford or Yeah No it's people in the neighborhood They get the boat They don't want to lug it back to the house every night Yes Yeah And people use that a lot Yeah They Yeah Yeah So the idea was let let them be there during warm months but not year round Yeah Right Yeah By the way the lakes I'm familiar
with where people have camps and houses and whatnot They do that anyway They don't leave their boats on the waterfront over winter You want to put them you know under under the house or something Yeah We we've getting lax So Anything else on this David uh I don't have anything Okay
Uh final last couple of things land management So we talked about the coolest farm uh kiosk Um I just want to mention that David and I received an email from John Ray It was when I was on my travels so I didn't really do any
response to it but in that email he mentioned all the things that they want to do on the site on Kula site And um one of them was put a kiosk up which is where I got a little upset I guess because I'm like okay yeah I'll put a
kiosk up and do some signage and things like that Okay that's fine And then a few days later we get a question about an Eagle Scout getting you know where should their kiosk go and I'm like what kiosk what are we talking about where did that come from so that's why we had
some some issue with how that how that played out and we had no idea there was a a project uh for that So I'm I'm going to have we're going to have to talk to Mr Ray again uh because uh I'm getting a little frustrated with how how that's going how
that's working Um with the good weather coming Yeah again there's going to be projects that I that people are going to want to do Is the procedure for that to come before our board are we the the governing party
right now for that site oh yeah Yeah we have been for a year Okay So if anybody wants to So the Eagle Scout I saw his the picture of his finished It's beautiful Did a great job He did a great job And in the past they used to the scouts
would come before us prior to doing the project with the idea of putting on that site and they have a bill of materials and the a plan and in a lot of cases we helped them with financial uh part of it
and this seemed to come back door to us So I think before the next thing comes in that we need to get a handle on you know things need to come before us if that's the process A month ago David sent an email roughly a month ago to a
number of we we didn't have a list of scout leaders but we cobbled together a list and sent out a list that said "Hey we're we're here the conservation commission and we're looking you know we're happy to have projects come to our sites and please let us know." And you
know whether it's an Eagle Scout project or a a non-Ele Scout just a scout group troop project or anything like that we're we're open to any of those kinds of projects But we I think the last Eagle Scout project before tonight that we saw was the um 2021 we had the bridge
at Crooked Spring That's that's four years ago right it's like wow And and and I wanted to just mention I know you guys are thinking this but it's really really unfair to the volunteer the scout or even members of the public to start doing a project
not knowing if it's been authorized by the legally responsible entity which is us Yeah So I mean it worked out great on this case but I hate to see some you know somebody left hanging right that's that's why I think we need to get a
handle on it before the weather breaks and somebody else wants to do something else up there or does something that doesn't jive with the long-term plan is right But but we're all for good projects Oh yeah that's beautiful question So I mean there's people go up there uh there's
that uh pulling out invasives and doing all kinds of work They do a great job up there Yep Yep Yep But you know our directive has been keep maintaining the trails and and manage the invasives and that's pretty much So anything other than that anything other than that they need to come to us Okay Hello Dave Mr
Sperry who is a former scout uh you're still very engaged with the scouts Uh Dave Sperry 12 Long View Drive been kind of helping out uh with the the coolest uh Eagle Scout project trying to connect the dots that have gotten lost here Just
wanted to make sure that you guys were aware of that there are two picnic tables included in that kiosk Uh nope didn't know anything about that So what we need to do is have that scout email you actual plan that was
approved I have it Okay Uh he's building two ADA accessible picnic tables Awesome Okay That he'd like to place on the the property Uh he's singing up along the top of one of the hills there Uh even though you can't
get there ADA wise uh maybe at some point in the future a trail will be made up there Uh but Judy has the the actual uh So just to be clear this commission
approved the kiosk so far right Is this scout the same scout Same scout Same project Okay Oh okay Oh the scope is bigger than we understood right hello Judy My name is Judy Dinski 24 Chestnut Hill
I am the scout um representative for the Westwind district that approves the Eagle Scout projects for the town of Chelmsford with the exception of my troop because that would be a conflict of interest Um but I advise them my troops scouts throughout the process
also Um and I um at the time I approved Dominic's project which was in October This has been a long time approved project Um it was he was in another troop He was in troop for 70 which has
folded So he's now part of my troop So it but it's no longer a conflict of interest because it's already been approved But his project does clearly state that he is creating a kiosk and two ADA um handicap picnic tables I do
have his pictures and his his his stuff and a copy of his proposal Um and it was all approved by um John uh John Ray
Yeah John Ray um as a benefactor and it was done under the opaces of the open space stewards That was the beneficiary he believed he was working for Yep Um I don't I can't question who
represent We don't have the thread I I know who the scout is working for and what he believes he's doing it for Um when I approve it I don't know the politics and the who owns what
properties and controls that Um and at times even the scouts misrepresent and don't know I have a scout that's working on a trail he's going to construct that is to the rail trail from Bartlett I think it might be Bartlett Wood lot but
he thinks Bartlett Park But anyway he may not I'm not educated on this He's not educated but someone has signed that proposal who's representing that they are the authority to do that He's been working with that beneficiary
So that's how the process works Um and I don't know how to close that loop but the scout has I can present you give you a copy of his proposal and that sort of stuff I'm personally having seen
the pictures of the photos of the kiosk I don't need to see pictures of the the the picnic table I'm quite confident they're going to be it If they're not already built they'll be quite good They're not built yet Yeah Um he's fortunate not all our projects come out
with such skilled workmanship and he has not necessarily included the pe the general scouting population to build it and he doesn't have a professional father working with him So I mean the
other scouts generally So you get a project of what you get It's not a professional job generally his is a higher standard than often times But is there any clarity we I mean as scouts
we've been spoiled by working with Phil Stanway because we just go up to him A scout doesn't have they don't look at the big picture of how long they have to work on a project They they go "Oh my gosh I'm going to turn 18 in five months
I'd better get cracking." Yeah And sometimes I've seen a scout take eight projects He's written up eight projects before it gets approved Oh wow Um so it's not a first time thing that they all can get approved They have to meet certain standards and they have to be
able to demonstrate leadership and planning Um so it's it's they're in a race to to their birthday They have no way give giving on that That's a hard and fast date And
then you complicate that with senior life and everything else that goes into it So Phil has always had some nice he knows what's involved in a Eagle project and he knows the scopes that are reasonable and he a scout you know will come up to me and I'll say well you've
got three months or you got two years If you got two years you can go do a project you really are passionate about and you want to do But if you've got three or five months you'd better look at something that is very plausible and someone there to support you and will
approve it It can't go through months of approval and throwing back We had a PTO that kept passing back uh every time a scout would present the design he would throw they would throw it back with a a parent wanting a different change and
that change order just can't come Yeah For these projects Um they don't have that kind of timeline So so some guidance here is that Chsford Conservation has a number of properties in town We have conservation reservations and they all say I think
they almost all say conservation reservation on the sign or something like that and so we're responsible for those properties In the case of Kulis that's not been um legally changed to us but the select board and the town manager have asked us to take responsibility for that just about a
year ago It was probably probably May that we've had responsibility for that property And so for any of the projects that are proposed on our properties we would like to be re we we require that they we get a review of that project uh
and and provide feedback And I honestly I think it's a great experience for the for the scout to come before a town commission and and present their project proposal So that's that's what we would be looking for And I I can tell you I
was look I've been doing some deep dive historical research on meeting minutes for something different going back into the 70s and all along this conservation commission and Eagle Scout projects and and scout projects for the last 50 years
and it seems like it's dried up in the last three or four years We haven't seen much and Phil probably has 50 projects on Sunny Meadow because yeah he's made it easy for for that to be cycled
through and processed and he facilitated Doesn't have to go through Phil It can come directly to us You can talk to David talk to me as the chair or any any of the members here You know we can and and Phil knows a lot of the stuff on our properties too he if he's got you know he he's aware of projects that could be
done on on conservation projects he can you know but but um it should be coming to it should be coming to the commission to be approved that's yeah and it was missed in this case and that's fine we we understand we need to address it that wasn't the scouts issue that wasn't the
the there's no way as someone who approves these that I can track that I don't track who owns what properties and who the beneficiary really is when the proposals come We love seeing these projects Yeah Yeah Can I put a finer point first of all thanks for what you do And I think
everybody at this table very much wants to support more any kind of volunteer but certainly the scouts and we certainly don't want to be any sort of barrier make it hard to get approvals Um but I think maybe the simple way for you to
think about it it think about whoever just ask the question You know if you're working whoever you're working with ask the question who is legally responsible for this property am I asking the scout well no Ask ask where
the project scout I only work with the scout I'm approving what the scout has provided by his proposal I got it I got it I think go into the field and verify anything No And I I just say that it
meets the scout laws what we're trying to do Yeah Well I think it's on us meaning us meaning the town to make sure it's easy Mhm Whatever it is for Judy and it doesn't you know especially you know let these let these let these folks do their work Yeah We got to figure that out Make it simple I understand what
you're saying Yeah Phil makes it very simple He's got the material on hand They don't have to go budget fundraising or anything else He facilitates the little inbetweens He does a lot of that very well but he should be steering them to come here Um and I'm not seeing that
So so maybe a suggestion is if you can connect with have a list of those projects available Scouts and all the troops would love to have that kind of thing available to them Thank you very much Thanks Appreciate you coming in Appreciate it very much
Maybe you could talk to Phil and John Ray and let them know that they need to push things to us The important thing is not to have it be bogged down by anything that we need Well once once it comes to us it doesn't
get bo It's a one night It's a It never goes beyond one meeting Gosh I mean over the 30 years and we've tried to help them out with 30 years on conservation One of the highlights of conservation has been the Eagle Scout projects coming in in front of us I mean we love seeing the Eagle Scouts come in and they always
do a great presentation and seeing the leaders and stuff So it's certainly a highlight to me Agree My years of seeing the Eagle Scouts We love to see you guys come in and we appreciate all that good work and and I'm still a member of the the Order of the Arrow as well too So my sympathies are are with scouting for
sure Okay Um and Carl we could talk offline Maybe I need to understand this but the way I look at this whole approval process it needs to be approved by whoever is the legal owner or assigned
representative for a parcel So Sunny Meadow is technically owned by the town right manager Yeah Whereas uh Judy 90% of the conservation land in town is owned by this commission or the land trust Well 90% by this commission and
the remaining 10% by the land trust or or the town itself And so it makes it hard and we got to find a way to make that easy There's no way you should spend your time trying to understand that And you can't expect that scout Of course not Has to do that Yep 100% We got to fix that Yep We want more
projects Well there's a lot of scouting that that's capable of doing that you what to do and what needed to be done Yep To see Thank you Thank you Okay last couple of things and we're almost
done here Thanksgiving forest um the DPW last week uh took down the Norway maples that we identified to be removed The invasive we're on an invasive uh theme tonight So the Norway maples were removed by the DPW last week and the
stumps were ground today by Steve Mayot He was down there this afternoon after the rain stopped and he got his grinder out there and so that crew is um ready to go We do I need to connect with Mr Boutner about the um the rabbit fence
the deer fence Um uh I being gone for two weeks I kind of forgot about that So we got to we got to try to probably get that on our next meeting and figure out what we're going to do there Okay Um Yep Just just so crosswires I'm having a low
level and it is low level chat with Jeff about the idea of publicizing what they're doing either on our town website or whatever So we'll keep everybody in the loop but Yep Yeah Okay Uh agents
report Uh Mr Couple of things Um so uh I know the commission has asked for me to report on any events I've approved approved a couple of events One at one at Culus one at Lime Quarry Um ju just
some daytime walks that uh Phil is conducting Um the other the other thing is so it looks like there's going to be a oneweek lull in regulatory filing So no hearings next week So if you want if you want to think about devoting it the
the agenda to land management or anything else that would be great think of um and and and that combined with the fact that yeah there's there's going to be a a fivew week a three-w week yeah a two week two week
and three week where there's no regulatory hangings then three weeks after that I I think probably want to maybe the the the three of you who are on the um the by the bylaw and regulation subcommittee you want to think about having a meeting during
during that period of time so we you know let's let's you know think about scheduling that Thank you for talking about scheduling calendar So that's good I think there's three of these three-week sessions this year Oh
there could be I think there's two more later in the year Um if I'm not mistaken So um I mean it's it's I mean don't get too used to the LOL No I know There's going to be a bunch of filings that are coming in after that Um but but let's just try and take advantage of the next
meeting Okay Yeah Okay All right Awesome Um anything else okay And we don't have any meeting minutes to approve but I know our correct uh notetaker is going to have them for us the next meeting I'm
quite sure Oh what a look Oh what a look That was much better stated This She's agreeing with you Jeez She told me earlier she was working on them So I make a motion So So make a motion He makes a motion to close the
meeting To adjourn the meeting Motion from Mark second from Chris All in favor i thank you very much Thank you Chel media Good night I I think you I think you got a