WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Wo4S0_lDtwk

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: Wo4S0_lDtwk):
- 00:01:53: Meeting Called to Order, Open Session Discussion Intro
- 00:03:16: Jackson Leech Presents Temporary Walkway Project on Vines
- 00:06:23: Commissioners' Questions and Concerns on Walkway Project
- 00:11:51: Motion to Approve Walkway Project with Budget Details
- 00:13:27: Planning Board Liaison Report: Lighting Bylaw Passed
- 00:15:23: Request for Streamlined Approval Process for Scout Camping
- 00:17:00: Discussion: Guidelines for Scouts Camping on Town Property
- 00:21:19: Fire Department Permits & Scouting Liability Insurance
- 00:25:00: Moving to Regulatory Hearings, Reading Legal Notice
- 00:26:56: Max Regan Presents Erosion Control Project Overview
- 00:31:15: Questions on Geo-Fabric Mesh and Vegetation Plans
- 00:34:51: Discussion on Soil Stability and Water Runoff Concerns
- 00:42:05: More Installation Questions and Concerns about the Mesh
- 00:47:11: Seed Mix, Shrubs, Contingency Plans Discussed
- 00:51:38: Slope Instability Issues and Proposed Design Clarifications
- 00:57:01: Manufacturer's Installation Supervision and Expertise Requested
- 01:01:05: Discussion of Long-Term Maintenance Plan and Invasive Species
- 01:04:16: Public Comment and Motion to Continue Project
- 01:10:19: Notice of Intent Continued: Wedick ADU Project Overview
- 01:13:25: Parking Lot Configuration and Stone Swale Discussed
- 01:17:13: Commission Feedback on Invasive Pulling and Setbacks
- 01:20:11: Discussions On Slab Repairs and Wildflower Maintenance
- 01:22:04: Motion to Close the Hearing and Approve Order of Conditions
- 01:23:40: Cheat Sheet of Approved Wildflower Seed Mixes Idea
- 01:25:15: Requests to Continue Culis and England Power Projects
- 01:27:05: Land Management Discussion: Redwing and Kulis Reservations
- 01:34:07: Discussion on Vernal Pool Status and Potential Certification
- 01:36:58: Dog Waste Complaint: Southwell, Russell Mill, and Cranberry Bog
- 01:45:11: Agent's Report: Enforcement and Route 495 Oil Spill
- 01:49:14: Tri Board Joint Meeting Scheduled, Gap Analysis Explained
- 01:52:12: Minutes Review: February 10th, February 24th, and March 10th
- 01:56:39: Adjournment Motion and Closing Remarks


Part: 1

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You were there last night. How long you left? >> Pretty good. Peter 11. Wait a minute. >> All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to call tonight's Conservation Commission meeting to order. It's now 700 p.m. and we have a full agenda this

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evening. And the first U items we have are under our open session citizen concerns and we have uh Mr. Richer. Did I say that right? He's listed uh on the agenda. Scouts America.

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>> He actually I thought of you as maybe one of these guys, but >> I see some scout uniform. So uh >> he actually u he actually sent me an email saying he wouldn't be able to make it. Oh, >> okay. All right. would want it then to be on one of the May or June meetings. But when I saw these guys, I thought

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maybe he >> Exactly. When do when do they need to have approval? >> Uh >> cuz they're having an outing, right? >> Uh I think this is just a general Oh, >> discussion. >> This is not for specific use. >> Well, originally it was, but for whatever reason that fell through. So,

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they just want to have an understanding of the general approval process. not very >> similar to the one. >> Let me jump to them right away. Oh, here we go. >> Yeah. >> Hey, John Ray, 223 Pinehill Road,

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>> Mr. Ray. >> Mr. Ray, um um Jackson is here to to give a pre-approval. I don't know where he's going to be on your agenda, >> but let's uh let's jump to it. You know, I I think we can just get right to it.

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Okay. >> You guys don't bite. >> That's good. We're good. >> You usually >> not yet. >> Okay. Great. >> Oh, this is scary. >> So, if you could just give up it. >> Just give us your name and address.

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>> I have a couple print outs. I think >> they might have been shared. I don't know. If you guys want print outs, pretty much just what I'm going to say. Do you have one? >> Um, I have four. I did not print out very many copies. >> We can share. We'll share. So, sharing is caring. >> Saving paper, right?

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>> Um, who wants one? I guess >> them down there. That's good. >> Go that way. >> Every second or third, we can share it. >> Yeah, we'll be good. >> Yeah, we can share. Thank you. >> Yeah, you're doing a great job.

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>> Here we go. Site business. Awesome. >> Name and address. I am Jackson Leech. I live with my parents at 16 Clydesdale Road in Jumpsford. >> That's funny. >> That's right.

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>> Um, so yes, I am here. Get pre-approval. I believe that's exactly what it's called. Something along Vines for what is I I'm not good with words today. I apologize for that. That's all right. >> That's okay. That's okay. Take your time.

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>> Tell us what you want to do. >> I want to >> It's there now. Yeah. >> He wants to put it. >> It's there in the pictures. There's at the coolest property, there is a sort of a temporary walkway >> over a wetland. I don't know if wetland is the right word. Water does end up

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passing through the area. is to build a 4 foot wide by 15 foot structure to provide safe crossing over it. Um,

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it's going to be built using I wrote it here, but pressuret treated lumber wood because it's durable, weather resistant, and it'll also be supported by stone footers. I'll just look more at this. And I will

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be leading the project and it will be taking course over roughly twoish days in the early middle of June. Again, depending on weather. I don't think it would be fun to do stuff in really bad weather. On the back, I have an example of sort of what the finished project

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would look like. And then I was trying to draw a little circle on the map at the top, but I couldn't figure out how to do that to show roughly where Unulus property would be. That's what those fancy pictures very

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fancy pictures are. >> Well, that's that's a good overview. And let's just see if the commissioners have some questions for you, Jackson. So, starting with uh Commissioner John. Yeah, I I think it's going to be a great improvement. Uh I see no problem with this.

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>> Thanks, John. Thank you, Bill. >> Yeah, I know exactly what you're doing up there. Um the water's going to be able to flow under it if we get a rain because that's really just a muddy spot. It's not a wetland. It's more of if it once in a while if it rains heavy, it

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just gets damp so or wet. So, uh, it's going to be up so the water can go underneath it, pass through. >> Okay. Yes. All right. Good. No, I think it's a great project. >> Good. Great. Moving on to Mark. >> Uh, you're going to set everything on grade just on the ground. >> You build grade on the ground.

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>> It would be I wrote it here. Yeah. >> Using granite >> granite curve >> to get it off the ground. So, it wouldn't be directly resting on the ground. >> Good. It's all I got. Thanks. Good gave.

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>> Can vandals steal it? >> Pretty hard to steal it. >> Or they'll move it up. They'll move it and make it difficult, right? Just move it away. It's not that he at 15t 4T wide. It's pressuret treated is pretty heavy, right? I mean, if you could make

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it stationary, that would be because somebody sure and shooting will try to move it and you won't be here. You'll be off at school with a job. Um, do you have a cost budget to make this? >> Not right now. I will have one. >> And where will you get the money?

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>> Where will I get the money? I will try to fund raise. Well, not try to. I will be fundraising for it. I'll of course have to throw in some of my own money for it. I haven't thought much down that alleyway yet. >> There is some town money for money for project like this.

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>> Yeah, there is. There is some money. So, >> what is it called? It's a >> Well, we have some money. I know, but in addition to us, there's a there's some talent >> there there's a community preservation >> PPC >> committee which Carl asked me to be our representative to that hasn't met yet,

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>> but that would probably be uh Jackson, you want to do this, you want to do this soon, so that would be probably after the fact. But I think there's some you you check with town hall up down here at the office because I think that other than CPC there's some town like in 200

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or $400 increments or something >> that that committee was dissolved. >> Was it? Yes, there isn't. >> The uh community action program. Yeah, they dissolved it. >> But Chris is right. You give us a budget and take a look and tell us how much money you're going to raise and we might

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help you. >> That's right. Well said, Dave. Yeah, >> but but I definitely would consider the CPC as well. I mean, there's a there's a certain there's a certain threshold uh that they can approve without having to go to town meeting and there might even >> That's a good idea then. Yeah, >> there may even be a threshold where they

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don't even have to approve it. I'm not sure. You could again ask the town manager about that, you know, depending if this is just really a low cost, >> 300 bucks, >> something something to think about. >> Expensive. >> Yeah. So, what would we recommend? If you put together a simple budget, which

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is nothing more than an email with some words, I'm going to buy some boards and they cost we estimate is this amount, right? Um, we can approach I could approach the CPC, which I haven't actually been to a meeting yet because I'm new. And then do we want Jackson to

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talk to town manager? >> I think it's important that he do that >> raises the money as part of his project. >> Exactly. >> And we can help him if he needs help. Yeah, exactly. We can help close a gap, >> but the action would be for for Jackson

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to put this little email out to who >> kind of learning learn a little bit of the process. >> You could you could send send it to me, but but I think once once we get that, I think yeah, you could you could definitely find out what the process is with CBC. Just

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>> CBC will require him to have some fundraising on his own. >> Yeah. as as a part of the Eagle proposal. I'll have to do estimated costs. I think something also about how I'm going to fund raise. Yeah. >> Fundraising parts. >> Dave, back to you. Anything for good.

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Ally, >> good. Peter, >> I'm good. That was my question. >> Dave, >> nothing to add. >> Okay, good. Anybody following up here? I see I see a hand in the back. John, come back up. It might be helpful and I don't know

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whether it's useful or not. Can he use a taxfree from if he purchases it from wherever he's going to purchase the lumber from? Can he use a taxree taxree number taxree exemption? >> Sure. >> I think that would be something to talk

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to the treasurer about, but I I don't see why not. It's for a town project. >> Who David? Who's that? Uh well that's that would be John Souza. >> I'm I'm going to go back through um uh Bill for that but John Souza that's a

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that would lower the costs. I mean it can't be it's only it's 4 by 15. So thank you. >> All right. Good. Any commissioners? Any more questions? Uh >> I think we could approve this subject to

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him finishing. I think we we want to have all the bits and pieces at least lined up. Even though you may not have closed on any of them, we we need to know maybe a five or six items. You're going to do this, this, this, and this. And if there's a cost associated with

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it, you're going to estimate what it is. That that should be part of your proposal. That's fine. >> I think I think that would be good. You were in tonight. I think the purpose was for pre-approval, right? Um good idea. >> I think we're ready. Maybe Mr. Mr. McGlaughlin can make a motion then.

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>> So move. >> So moved and seconded by >> second >> John on the left here. Uh so all those >> the overall project. >> We're yeah we're approving the overall project but there's still a few open items uh as far as you know some figures

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on the budget some more details. >> Chris I take it the scouts have a certain format they require you to follow and then you have to submit it to somebody in scouting. So that whatever that is we would want to see that too. I mean that that's so you only have to do it once. I assume what you're going to

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submit to scouting is it just will take care of what we need. >> Um any further discussion, comments? All those in favor? >> I I Any opposed? Unanimous. All right. >> Seconded that. >> Uh John was on the second and Jackson, you're all set for tonight then. And

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yeah, please keep us updated on on your progress and and get us more of the details and and our agent uh is, you know, is always helpful to the the public. So, he's he's there. >> Good. >> Awesome. >> And good luck. >> Sorry for not being the best with my words. >> No, you're fine. You'll >> be better the next time.

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>> Believe me, you're fine. And you will be better the next time. It gets better every time. >> All right. Well, that was uh that was good to jump right in there under open session citizen concerns. Uh next up on the open session citizen concerns, we have a report from our planning board

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leazison Chris. >> Good evening. Uh Chris Lavali, chair of the planning board. Um since I last met with you guys, uh and ladies, there have been no planning board meetings. Uh there are actually none uh until your

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next meeting as well. May 13th is our next one. Um after your next one. Um the only thing to really report right now is yesterday at town meeting. We did pass the new bylaw for lighting. Uh so that did pass town meeting. Um,

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>> how many years did Kelly work on that? >> A couple. >> More than a couple. >> The first iteration um came before the planning board last year, last town meeting. Um, and it it did include regulations for uh residential. uh there

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were there was a lot of opposition to that in the select board in Fincom. Um so I worked with him to remove that component of the regulation make the residential um essentially recommendations and then excuse me and then the uh

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regulations were primarily for um industrial commercial and multif family. Um so that was the difference uh in the two presentations. So, that did pass last night and then Thursday we are presenting the rest of our zoning

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bylaws. >> That's my update. >> Thank you, Chris. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> All right. Um, this is open session citizen concerns. Does anybody else from the public have something they would like to bring uh before us that's not on tonight's agenda? Yes, sir.

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>> Uh I talked to Richard about >> your name and address. >> Derald Haye, 17 Douglas Road in Jonesford. So, I talked to Richard Friezner just a couple minutes ago about his concern and what he was primarily looking for was to have a little bit

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more a efficient process for getting approval to camp on um the town properties and particularly it can be difficult for the scouts. As many of you probably know,

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they're they're youth a youthled organization, which sometimes means planning happens right up to when you're supposed to actually be doing the event. And so trying to get them to be able to have

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enough uh organization and executive skills to be able to plan an event in enough time to be able to get to a town meeting before they need to get that approval can be very difficult and challenging

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for them. And so, um, we're just hoping that there's there's a way that we can make it more scalp friendly to get approvals and authorizations to t uh to camp on the town property because a lot

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of times the same things that we're that that you guys are going to be looking for are just going to be repeated over each time. And perhaps there's a a way that we can expedite and just make it a lot smoother for everyone. Yeah, I mean I just speaking for myself,

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but I I think that that we could certainly work something out, you know, with some guidelines, right? >> Yeah. So, I I I would suggest um send sending me a list of the properties you're potentially interested in. >> Um and then so, you know, I can I can start thinking about I mean, some of them I already have, you know, what what

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I what I anyway just be my opinion, what what I think the best locations within those properties are. And then you can also let me know what I mean what sort of infrastructure what what what sort of you know accutrants you know are associated with I don't know whether you

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bring in portaotties or not or you know that that sort of thing. Um you know I I presume you you want to be able to pitch tents and light fires you know that that has to have a permit from you know the fire department whatever. So, so if you if you could research all of those

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requirements and put that in the email as well, you know, in addition to the properties that you're thinking of, that that that would help me certainly then be able to prepare to to uh you know, how to recommend to the commission, you know, what properties and where and you

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know, commissioner members probably already have their own ideas, you know, so um but but I think this is certainly a um the right approach So yeah, so you don't have to come back every time you want you want to do camping. >> All right. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think the commission I

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speak for all my colleagues, we really encourage the scouts to get out on the properties with their families, have a lot of fun out there, and um you know, we're big fans of scouts. >> All right. Great. >> Dave, you have a rough idea how many times a year you're going to want to use property just generally?

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>> The the difficult thing is that there's multiple units within the >> This would be more than chedd. Uh well there's multiple units within Chsford. There's three >> I understand that but would this involves troops from other towns who work with you?

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>> Um I can't speak what with what >> because I historically it has >> Mhm. >> So I don't know whether you still plan to >> Yeah. I I assume >> because that makes it a much more difficult poor words more complicated. >> It adds layers of complexity.

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Absolutely. Um I I think that's probably something we can think through on how we approach it. Um because you know to David's point like the what what type of things that we

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would need would also depend on the type of unit because like the Boy Scouts have certain requirements that they would need. But then the cub scouts have additional layers because like they would need a property that has access to running water whereas the Boy Scouts

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might be able to camp in a property without and so it comes down to our safe scouting um requirements. So I think that feeds back into David's point is like let's think about how how to structure this all what what kind of

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criteria would apply to various types of units and uses. >> Are you talking about all of the conservation reservations or only a few of them or don't you know yet? David had mentioned what we could do is identify certain properties that >> some of them aren't probably aren't big

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enough >> right >> for conservation use but certainly Mil Road and uh Oakill >> maybe >> Redwing >> Redwing Farm >> you should try to identify the ones that you think would be the most

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>> useful for you. >> Yeah. and and maybe if it like we put that like those designated properties that as part of this process if somebody wanted to use a different property then that would require additional discussion >> and the the only one else involved would

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be use of the ball fields at Mil Mill Road would need to see the the youth soccer approval because you don't want to conflict with them having in the fall they have a lot of a lot of games so just coordinate but they've been we in the past that's worked very well

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together. So, >> just reach out to them >> certainly. >> But I guess next steps just, you know, follow up with our agent. Hopefully, you're getting a kind of a favorable impression from the commission. We want to work with the scouts. >> And the only other approval he's going to need would be for fire from the fire

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department, right? >> I think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. When he gets goes for a fire permit, does the individual go to the fire department and they instruct him what he should have, how we should light, how we should keep it, or does he just give him

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a permit? >> I think so. >> Well, well, I think I think the way it's worked in the past, like with with the with the Thanksgiving, the day before Thanksgiving walk, um that I think it's actually the conservation commission gets the permit. Or am I right about that?

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>> Yeah, we used to. Yes, >> that's the one thing Phil would organize the the event and one of us would go get the fire. >> So maybe we want to handle the same way the time of the day. >> My name is Judy Dinski, 24 Chestnut Hill

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Road. And in the past I have led multi- town camperees here on town property, Oakill and Russell Mill area in particular. And in those cases when I did that, I would go to the fire chief and get a permit for that. And we had

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individual fires at different stations along the way for the scouts to be warmed because it was in the middle of February or January, the coldest months of the year. And um as scouts, we understand how to do no impact. Um we

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bring in lightweight camping fire pits and we remove the ashes and things like that. So that's not an issue. Do I think we understand how to go about doing that as scouts? >> It's usually from the troop directly to the fire. Um >> Okay. Well, well, it sounds like maybe

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that's the best way to handle it since you clearly have the experience and you know what to tell the fire department. >> And then maybe they a copy of the permit could be sent to you. Usually we have to call the fire department before we light the fires and then when they're all extinguished and generally they're under

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the guise of instructional um fire instructional or fire cooking are the two legal routes that we usually generally pursue for using the fire. So >> you know more about this than I do. >> Yeah. And I think it it makes a lot of sense to me for the scouts to own the

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permit. >> Yes. to have a direct line of communication to to the fire officials because we're not fire officials. >> You don't want to be called in the middle of night saying we can write our fire now. >> Well, I mean, not that I would mind necessarily. It's just I wouldn't know what to do. Exactly.

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>> It's a process. We understand. >> Yeah. Judy, you've been doing this for a lot of years. >> Yes, I have. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Well, good. Great. >> Right. Anything else uh from the commission? Yes. All >> Pence. Um, wouldn't because it's town property, wouldn't we need some type of

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liability or release or anything like that? You think? >> Usually there's some >> Yeah, certificate of liability insurance. I'm sure. >> Scouting Scouting America does have a liability insurance policy. >> We can ask and get within a few minute, a few hours usually a million-doll

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liability contract. So, that's not You just need to let us know that we need that. >> Well, well, we definitely will. >> And then, and then I'll need it in enough time so that I can have the town manager's office review it. Yeah. And maybe that could be part of the application is like submit the

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certificate of insurance with the application. >> And that's and that's why we we we we have you know the general category is events >> and um you know people want to use conservation land for events will send send me a registration form and then

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then I almost always yeah require that they give me the the certificate of liability insurance. >> Yeah. And if you put that on the application, then it makes it takes one less step then for you have to ask for it. >> Okay. >> All right. Good. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. Thanks a lot. >> Paul seems extremely smooth. There was never any problem. >> No, Scouts are great to work with. >> Yeah. >> All right. Moving on then from the open session citizen concerns section of the meeting tonight. We're moving to our

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regulatory hearings. And the first item we have is notice of intent Alexandria and James Rean 21 and 237th Avenue Willis Drive right away. Uh Mr. Casey

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Ferrer from Howard Stein Hudson is listed as representing the applicant and we've got um so what we'll do is I think we have a a legal notice. Do we not? >> Can you read that Peter? >> Yes. So, vice chairman will now read their legal notice.

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>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act, MGL131 section 40 and the Chumsford Wetlands bylaw Chapter 187, the Chumsford Conservation Commission will conduct a public hearing

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in room 204 at Chumsford Town Offices, 50 Bill Ricker Road on Tuesday, April 28, 2026 at 7 PM to consider the notice of intent filed by property owners Alexandria uh and James Rean.

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on behalf of property owner Charles Rafoni. Apologize if I pronounced those incorrectly for proposed work within the 100t buffer zone to Freeman Lake at 21 and 23 7th Avenue further identified as assessors map 18 block 83 lots 9 and six

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respectively and Willis Drive rightway. The project entails stabilization of an existing eroding slope using erosion control matting. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. And now to our applicant. Representative.

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>> Hey, I'm uh I'm Max Regan. I work with Howard Sun Hudson and I'm here to prevent present the uh NOI submission on behalf of the property owners of 237th A. So, the property is located in between

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um it's a single family home in between 7th AB and Willis Drive which abuts Freeman Lake. In the rear yard, there's an existing retaining wall located on top of an eroding slope that extends onto the

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right ofway and onto Willis Drive. So you can see on the plan the um the pink line is the property line, the red line is the existing edge of pavement and the blue line is the wetland delineation line which is uh Freeman

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Lake. Um so the project proposes to excavate all the soil that's eroded onto the road. Um and then a temporary soil that's on the road. >> Yes. So the soil is eroded over the

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road. So um if you actually dig into that slope about one to two feet um is the edge of pavement. >> So yeah, there's actually pavement underneath, you know, one to two feet moving in from the pavement you can see. >> So this has been an issue for about uh

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10 15 years. Um so we'd excavate the soil on the road and then we'd set up um temporary construction erosion controls, silt fence and straw waddle and then we would um grade it flat for a

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foot off the road and then we do a consistent slope from um the foot off the road to the bottom of the retaining wall. Um then a permanent erosion control mesh would be installed. This is called Armorax 75.

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Um, and then a wildflower mix would be planted on the mesh and then the once the vegetation is established, the temporary erosion controls would be removed.

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Um the so if you look on the plan the green line is the limit of the erosion mesh the Armorax 75. Um this mesh is extremely UV resistant. It's

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high strength and it doesn't break down into the um soil. It's meant to be permanent. Um it's held down by anchored wires um that are driven through the mesh and into the slope about 9 ft deep.

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Um this mesh is proposed on 237th A on the property of 237th A and also in the townowned rightway. Um the we've been working with the town to get

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a um memo memorandum of agreement between the property owners and um the town um to establish maintenance and in installation. We also um acquired a 15 foot

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construction easement on 217th A, the property to the left of the site. Um this is required to tie the mesh into the existing conditions.

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Um the closest proximity or the closest location of work to Freeman Lake is about 23 feet and all the work will be within the 50ft buffer and um a little bit of the work will be within the 25

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and 30 foot buffer. Thank you. >> Very good. Appreciate the overview. Uh let's just see if the commissioners have some questions and we'll just move on down the line. Thanks. Thanks, James. Um John, you want to start us up? >> Uh this is just you're going to regrade the front

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lawn, remove >> Yeah, it's the it's the rear yard, but yeah, pretty much. >> Oh, it's the rear yard. Yep. >> It's the rear yard. Okay. >> All right. And this mesh, it's it's it's

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like a geo fabric that just stays in. >> Um, yes. It's a like a high strength um mesh and it also allows for um like a light layer of lom will be um installed underneath it. The mesh goes down and then a light layer of lom on top and it

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actually allows vegetation to grow through it. Um, and so it's it's rated to hold up to a one to one slope. The >> one to one. >> Yep. And uh this project proposes about a one to one and a half. So a little bit shallower.

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>> Okay. And all the brush and all that's going to be gone. >> Oh, yep. So we're going to clear the brush and then there's going to be um the trees. That one on the right will remain. >> Remain. >> This one remains.

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>> Yep. So the um mesh can actually go around the trees. They just kind of cut an insert around and um the other trees. >> This this one goes right. >> Yep. Yeah. All the small trees are going to go. And then there's four

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um goodsized trees all in private property. >> That's one. >> Which are going to be removed. >> That's That's Can you see the cursor? That's one. two. >> Yeah, >> maybe the other photo shows it better. >> Uh the one Yeah, in the left corner.

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>> So, this is one, two, three. >> Yes. And then there's also one on >> Excuse me. Are these pictures existing or proposed? >> These are existing. >> Existing. >> Yep. Um Yeah. And then there's also one on 217th a right on the property line.

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>> This one. >> Yep. >> And we um established that. We already talked about that. neighbor got the agreement. >> So these the these these three right here are what you see in this photo. One, two, three, with the one the one on

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the neighboring property over to the left here that you can't see. >> Correct. Correct. So there's no way to avoid that. Trees have to go. >> John, anything more? >> Uh,

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no. Is there going to be any clay or anything other than lom with this? >> Um, no. So, it's all going to be top. So, it's meant to kind of grow through it. It's going to be a very light layer on top. Um, I have the I the details in

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the submission. Um, most the applications they do do the plantings through them. >> So, so the wire mesh is the only thing that's going to retain runoff. >> That's Yes, that's that's what I'm getting at. >> Okay, I see what you're saying. That's what I'm thinking. >> Yeah. So, we're gonna we're gonna have a

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wild flower mix like so the vegetation is gonna have to get established and it's going to look pretty. >> What are you going to do in the year that it takes to get a I'm sorry, John. In the year that it takes to get established, it's going to take a year for >> ground covering, right? What happens during that year if there's a heavy

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rains? >> The erosion control is not going to get removed until the wildfire is established. So it may continue to rock slightly. >> It may. >> Right. >> But isn't isn't that I mean certainly in this photo that's sand.

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>> Yeah. >> That's what I'm getting at. >> And that and it's still got to be mostly sand underneath the mesh. Right. >> Some of you may remember there's a house either to the left or the right of it that had a real problem on the slope. Remember, Bill? >> Yeah. >> I remember doing the sidewalk on that

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one some years back. But back to John again, John. >> No, I mean, if if they say this mesh is going to work, I mean, I guess I have no problem with it, but

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you better have, you know, a good plan at the bottom. >> You know what I mean? >> It's called a boat. >> Well, what I'm saying is I don't know whether You know the waddled. You might want a really good one.

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>> You heard him say they clean the road now. >> Yeah. Well, >> well, you can see it's all sand. That whole area is sand. >> It's all sand. >> It's all sand. >> It's a It's a valid concern, honestly. John. >> Yeah. So, I >> We'll see what everybody else got to think about this. >> Yeah, we'll work down.

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>> We did have the manufacturers come out on site. They have engineers and they they looked at it. They did a soil analysis and they also do a um spreading of the anchors um that's designed for each application. Um and then also we will have like I

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said silk fence and straw waddle while the um the vegetation's getting established. >> Is that an analysis part of the submission? The engineering analysis you just referred to. Have you seen it, David? I

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I believe a product spec was included. >> Yeah, they did give us a detail and anchor um anchor trenches and stuff like that. Yeah, >> just put a good waddle at the bottom. >> Not no 8 inch waddle. >> Let's jump to >> Bring your track bring your tractor over, John.

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>> Oh, no. No, no, no. Let's say let's jump to Bill. You said you're uncovering some retaining wall also. >> Um yeah. So if you look at that left corner um there's actually a retaining

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wall. I think it's a 18inch height block. It's been um covered with uh soil over the years. It's it's about a block down. Yeah. So that that uh geop fabric you're putting on is going from the from the road up to that retaining wall or is

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it going beyond that too? >> Is it going >> going to go up to the to the retaining wall? Yeah. >> So the the erosion from above that that's covered the retaining wall up that you're going to uncover. What are you going to do to keep that from continuing to come down?

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The one that's up beyond the >> right off. Right. >> Yeah. So yeah, that will have to be something we discuss with the homeowners and the contractor >> because I you know if you I'm not saying if you go if you're doing half the hill

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the top half if it's the same stuff it's all sand it's going to seems like it would erode down on top of this new geo fabric you're doing. So I don't know why you would we're not going further up. That's the question. >> Okay. I see what you're saying. So

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>> it might be a good uh you might have a good answer for it but I'm not sure. >> Okay. We'll see. >> Yeah, >> I got so um the wall. So, it's a wall that's buried, right? >> Right. >> And then there's another uh three foot wall on top of it. So, what's happening

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is that slope is kind of a drainage point and the water is kind of washing the sediment down off the wall and then on top of the the the uh the 18inch wall, >> right? So, you need to stop that from happening,

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>> right? So that would be like putting extra blocks up or >> something >> some Yeah. Some sort of Yeah. >> Now, okay. So the trees that you're taking down, are you grinding the stumps? Are you you are you pulling them out? Are you grinding >> gr We'd be cutting them and then

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grinding them down to meet. >> Okay. So you're not pulling them out? >> No, I not. >> Have you thought about leaving them in place to provide retention? >> The roots. >> The stump and the roots. Yes. So, that was the idea. We were going to cut them

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and grind them down to um to meet the proposed grade. >> I wouldn't don't pull the stumps up. >> Yeah, I don't I agree with you. >> That's all I have right now. >> Over to Mark. >> Yeah, I've got a lot of concerns with this.

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Uh somebody just brought up a good point, too, of uh water coming off the roof. Do you want what's what's catching that now? What's going to catch it in the future? >> Uh off the roof of the house. >> Yeah. >> Um so this isn't the house does have a

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subsurface uh drainage. >> Okay. >> Um the gutter system goes to a subsurface drainage >> like a col or something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Dry well. I'm not sure. But yeah, it does have a gutter system. It's mostly just the runoff

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from the front yard kind of going down like a path. Um, >> you got a pretty steep slope there. And I I >> 61%. >> Uh, and and that fabric you got to put it rolls out. You put stakes in it to hold

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it in place. Is that my understanding? >> Yeah. So, well, they lay it out and then they have anchor trenches on the bottom, the side, and then also the top. They might pin it to the wall, too. And then they have a um pattern of

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anchors that they do. So they drive the anchor down. It's like it's a you know kind of like a bullet shape and you drive it down 9 ft and then when you pull it it twists sideways and then it um secures to the mesh. You kind of pull

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it tight. >> Um that's what holds holds it together, holds it in place. And what kind of seed are you going to use to stabilize the uh soil? >> Uh we plan on using a like a wildflower

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mix. Um something that's good for um steep steep slopes. >> You're not going to take how long to stabilize to >> I rolling season, right? >> Yeah. I I'm not sure. Could get back to

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you on that. I I don't I don't know how that's I didn't design it, but I I don't know. Look at the the incline you have there, right? >> I don't know how the soil is going to stay in place. >> Well, um right now it is at quite a

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steeper slope than we're proposing with um nothing to hold it and it's doing all right. >> All right. So, you got you got a one to one and a half. That's pretty steep. Yep. The u the mesh is rated for one to

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one. >> I'm not sold, but go ahead. Okay. >> All right. Uh Dave, over to you. >> I think this is a terrible project. How many how many other installations has this company made of this mesh?

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>> I I I don't know the number. It is a >> new product or has it been on the market for five, six years? I think it's within a couple years it's been on the product. They do have a lot. Have >> you seen any data that shows how effective or une Well, you won't you you

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won't see data that shows how uneffective, but have you seen data that shows how effective it is? >> Right. Um, we did have a meeting with the um the uh uh the vendors, they have engineers and they showed us different

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applications that are similar. A lot of them are on um water banks. They did show us one um believe it was in Maine. Similar application slope to the ocean with stairs on it. Um

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the Yeah, we can we could provide that if if needed some >> Well, how old is the existing retaining wall up by the house? >> About 25 years old. 20 25 years old. Is that going to is that in good shape or is

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that need to be addressed in terms of maintenance? >> Uh that I believe that one is in good shape. >> You believe it's in good shape? >> It looked like it was in good shape. >> I would say to the site >> because I think you said some of it was covered over with dirt,

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>> right? Yeah. It's um about covered by about six inches of dirt. So I mean underneath >> I'm not an engineer, but I don't and so I don't know what a 60% slope is. Is that serious to you guys that are >> interest? >> Huh? >> You're not going to walk it. >> Okay. >> Right.

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>> That being the case, there's no in the construction plan, there's no talk about putting in shrubs to stabilize runoff either, is there? You're not replacing the trees and those just some of them are staying there, right? But you're are you clearing the site and then putting

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the keeping there's the three trees you're keeping? You're putting down the mesh and then you're going to seed it. the mesh. Then you're going to put some lom down. Then you're going to seat it. And the seating's got to got to Yeah, >> that's existing. That's proposed. So it's even more steep,

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>> right? >> It's >> it's uh less steep. >> I'm sorry. >> That he said that the proposed is more steep than the existing. >> He's looking at the second sheet, I guess. >> No, no, this the third sheet.

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On my turn. Go ahead. Um, I think you need to think more about stabilizing that hill in the future. I don't, unless you can show me some information that says this mesh is foolproof. I don't know anything that's really foolproof.

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Um, I think it's a good idea because that street Willis Drive down there has had a lot of problems, not just from this lot, but from abuing lots, >> right? There's one either I either right next to it or right close to it where

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that that hill just eroded right down into Willis and they had to rebuild that twice I think. I think the first time it didn't take so >> um roof runoff goes to the front of the

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house or the back of the house. >> It I know there is a subsurface drywall. Um, if you're looking at the plan, the >> But if that's at the top of the hill in the back, does that dry well leech into the ground because it's sandy and

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therefore it would migrate down towards Freeman Lake? >> I am not sure. I can take a look at that. It's It would be in the left corner of the frame right here. >> I'm sorry. >> No, you absolutely. Hey, glad to have

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you back, Dave. You don't >> just like the old days. >> Ally, >> you'll be sorry. >> Ally, >> uh, how many of the proposed anchors are going to be on the site roughly?

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>> I am not sure. That's the manu manufacturer. Um, >> so many yards. Is that what they do? >> That was my next question. Is it mainly perimeter? Is it going to run through? Is it >> It's It's the whole thing. Yeah. like a square probably over the side

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>> and then the outside is also anchored. They dig an anchor trench, anchor it in, >> and then they do it spread through the whole matting. >> Um yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Good. All right, Peter, your turn.

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>> Uh three questions. Um the seed mix, >> how how was that selected or has it been selected? And maybe a related question, was that done with a hoarded uh

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culturalist, a plant expert picking a mix that is good for sand? >> Right. Um yes. So we did um contact a landscape architect and ask them for recommendations of um plant mixes that do well holding

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soil on steep slopes. And that's one that'd be used. Um, we do have a couple like a list of them that we plan on, you know, picking from. >> I I I would suggest this commission get a little bit more information

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because um the wholesalers of wildflower mixes have all kinds of different mixes for different applications, different soils and different slopes. And wild flowers are often included along with other

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plant material, grasses and forbes, things that grab the soil better. And of course, if it's all sand, you need to be really careful about this. So, the word wildflower is what caught my attention. I'd be I'd encourage us to get a little bit more information on that seed mix.

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Uh, second of my three questions is kind of Dave's question is why not shrubs? And the reason I say that is I am familiar with geoengineering of slope stability where shrubs and live stakes. We've talked a little bit about using

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those and it was replacing the vegetation with with shrubs with a good root structure not just well wild flowers but then again depends on the wildflower mix. Maybe that's a wash. So I have a question. I don't know if you have if you guys considered shrubs. Simple

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question. Um, we did not, but we um I'm sure the owner and the applicant would um definitely be okay with planting shrubs or um getting you more information on the um you know, the

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vegetation mix that they choose. Um I know they did want to keep it um looking, you know, natural. >> Yeah. Yeah. And the whole thing hinges, I guess, on whether you can get the stuff to grow quick enough before it erodess away. That's I think what was troubling us.

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>> Which leads me my third comment or question. Um, have you thought of a contingency plan if the vegetation fails to take and let me give an example. I know a lot of the wildflower mixes

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uh won't germinate until they go through a winter. >> I mean, you can look into the horiculture part of that. Mhm. >> Um so it's very possible, you know, I know when I put a wild flower mix down in in my yard, um it didn't it took a

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couple years. If that were on a slope, it would have eroded away because some of the seeds had to go through that winter freezing cycle. So that's why the mix is so important. And a lot of the mixes have something that will grow fast to give you some stabilization, but maybe those are annuals and that's not

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long. So I mean, it's a whole process. That's why I ask, you know, is there a contingency plan and how well um thought through is the what's actually going to happen? So again, I I let's not have a big debate about it at this point, but I would be curious or suggest we think

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about the engineer offering what happens if this fails and there's a big pile of dirt. And John, maybe your waddle suggestion is a simple answer. >> Well, >> maybe it's that simple. >> Not the 8inch waddle. Use the bigger waddle. lost straw bales something bigger.

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>> But they have to be up and down the slope. Giant >> I'm >> right. They can't be just doomed grass. >> You see that dune grass thing? >> Well, that's an example of what I'm referring to. When when you think when an expert lays it out, maybe you've done that, but it's not just a wildflower

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mix. It's >> It's a good point because it reminds me of some of the challenges I've got down at Cape Cod where you just it's all sand. >> It's sand. It's steep. really really hurt me >> and you got erosion can happen so fast big storm >> it's gone you know >> you know some of these storms we have

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>> the site of 128 in Waltham where they did they did a project just like this it's pretty big and they put some special type of grass in there and they did something there that's that's holding up >> I think we got a lot of questions

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>> yeah and and I would I would like just to make one comment though um for my fellow committee me commission members don't forget we did approve of a similar I don't know if it was exactly the same but a geoteexile fabric on a steep slope on the landfill for the solar project a

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couple of weeks ago so this kind of >> wasn't it wasn't as steep as this >> well right but there's a whole geoengineering thing that we're not really familiar with so that's why we're we're asking questions we don't really know uh how this thing works I I think we

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need to continue it because there's a lot of questions and it's not that we're against the project because we want to make it but we want it done correctly so that you're not coming back >> right >> five years from now and get the hill washed out again. So how one question I

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had what's the lifespan of this stuff you put on the hill? >> Um it's the lifespan 75 years. >> Okay. >> Yeah. That's why it's called Armorax 75. Yeah. And I would I know there's a lot of questions everybody had and uh the

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one that concerns me the most is up above this that erosion coming down >> onto this. So look at how you would treat further up the hill >> to the other side of the house, >> especially where you have that you have an area where it runs off down the hill,

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right? And erodess a certain area >> to the left. Right. >> So I just want to be clear on on that area you're questioning. Right. We have this whole green line here of the Armorax. Yeah. >> This right here is that upper retaining wall. >> Right. >> Right. So which portion

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>> above the the retaining wall. Yeah. because you have runoff coming down that's buried >> that comes up and down and it comes in here around this. Yeah. Um it's not going to it's going to run through here. >> Yeah. >> Um but it's not this >> this isn't as deep.

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>> So we don't get the amount of erosion that's really taking out this hill. >> But you had erosion that enough to cover up the part of the retaining wall, right? >> The retaining wall wasn't done as part of the erosion. The the retaining wall was covered just as part of how they built it and installed it. That wasn't a

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result of more erosion that that ended up laying on top of it. They just installed the blocks deep enough so that we could we still have enough room to remove some of what they had back in the first place. >> Okay. So you to lessen your your slope. >> Correct. So you know if we can lower the

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top and the bottom reduce the slope that we have, >> right? >> So that's you know we took a look at how many blocks we have in depth here at the existing wall and determine we have something to just lower that top course or not the top course but the grade at the top. Okay. And >> that helps. >> So you how you're removing a lot of the

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sand out of there. And how how much loom are you putting in? >> So the loom I believe it was going to be two inches below mesh and two inches above mesh if I'm not mistaken. >> That's all. >> So yeah for >> we have to go by the detail that they provide us. Uh we can discuss with them

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if they want to put more in. Uh that's you know it's not a problem with me. Doesn't matter to me. >> Yeah. >> Um >> two inch walls two inch on top. Four inch total. 4 is a lus that's that's not a lot of lull. So we'll discuss with that if that's something the commission

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is interested in definitely taking it up. >> Billy, you you mean the abuing properties too? >> I mean the elevation of the abuing properties is much higher than this house. >> One of them is >> Yeah. How much how much how much runoff

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do you get from the >> 152 ft the other one's 50 ft which is much higher than the house of the applicant. So, in the existing edition, right, the the property to the left of this 217 currently drains away from our property

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and down his own his own property. Uh, he does have the same erosion control issue down at the bottom. I would think >> and we had offered to involve him as part of this project to stabilize his he declined being involved. So, we really

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can't do much on his property except for just work to tie ourselves back in. Now, what we are doing as part of this is because we're reducing our slope on the way up uh from what it is now, we'll end up just slightly lower than him from left to right, right? So, we'll inevitably end up helping his situation

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because water will be directed towards our stabilized slope and away from his unstabilized slope. Um, but there's nothing directly that we're doing to help that because it's not on our property. >> Uh Dave, you had a question. What's the construction phase from when you start to put the mesh down to when it's

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finished? >> Like the time span? >> Yeah. >> Fast. >> Yeah. Fast. Like a >> How fast? Two days. >> Two days. Yeah. Less than a week. Not 10 weeks. Two. >> Two days. >> Yeah. Within a week. Yeah. >> And have you got erosion control procedures in place in case there

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happens to be a thunderstorm or a deluge while you're doing it? >> Um, we do not. That's something we could get back. >> Think about that because that could happen. Mhm. >> Well, that's the waddle at the bottom, >> right? The soap fence and waddle. >> That's not gonna All that's going to do

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is keep it from going in. >> Well, they got to use the extra large waddle. >> Uh let's see. Mr. Coons, have we missed anything at this? >> Uh I just I just had a couple of questions and uh actually suggestions. Um so so is it the manufacturer that's

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going to be installing this or is it going to be a contractor? So the contract there there's going to be a contractor that installs it and then they have a um employee engineer come during the construction process and oversee it as part of the

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>> an employee of the manufacturer. >> Yes. >> That does that. >> So I I think you said earlier in your presentation that you had taken soil samples and presented that to the manufacturer. the the manufacturer came to the site

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and um yeah analyzed the soil. >> Okay. So I I would think I mean I could be wrong and tell me tell me if I am but I would think that the manufacturer worked closely with the landscape architects and you mentioned you had consulted a landscape architect

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with with regard to the species list anyway. >> Yeah. So we I >> the soil types. >> Yeah. We contacted the landscape architect we use on most of our projects just for some recommendations of um a

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vegetation mix for for the for the um slope. Yeah. >> So So have you asked the manufacturer if they if they work closely with landscape architects? Um >> because if they do they might then you

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know they might be able to put you in contact with a landscape architect who has experience in this sort of project you know with you know things about the concerns with the soils and the species list whatever um but but even above and beyond that

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you that's not the case what what I would recommend is that get you get a registered landscape architect to uh design a planting plan for this and the registered landscape architects sign and

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stamp it. Um so that you know there should be then a reason a reasonable you know confidence that what they're proposing will will work in this kind of a situation. >> You hopefully you can find a registered

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landscape architect who's comfortable in doing that. >> Yep. We could do that. back over to Mark. >> When when they're seating the property, is there going to be in a mat rolled out and they're going to fasten a mat down

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to this metrics or was it just throwing the seat out by by hand? >> Uh >> I'm sorry. >> Uh we assume it'll be a hydro seed if we're guessing. That's not um >> We'll get that information.

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>> Yeah, we can we can get that information for you. didn't need a lot of information on this yet. >> Yeah. >> Well, and maybe maybe the landscape architect will come back and recommend some shrubs >> in addition just wild flowers. >> I guess my concern was if it's hands it's in a mat or what because is there a

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guaranteed analysis of what's going in that you don't get any invasives and that stuff? >> Well, that that that is another uh issue as well. I I you know and actually there was a question I was going to ask uh that I forgot to. So, I think there needs to be some sort of long-term maintenance plan with this. Um, yeah,

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because, you know, if if if the concern or or or one of one of the priorities is to have it looking nice and and it's and it's I presume it's not going to be mowed because the slope is just too steep. It's too steep. I mean, you I think, you know, before too long, you're

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going to get a lot of invasive species in there or species that weren't originally planted. And so how is that how are they going to be dealt with? >> Right. So as part of this I've been taking notes on all the questions that the commission has had. And so um just one of the things that I was planning on

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doing based on the the conversation here is we'll get that registered landscape architect involved on more of an official than a recommended basis. And what we can have him provide is not only the exact seed mixture that they instead of just a general wildflower but you know which percentage of which do they want in the seed mix. And then

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additionally, he can give us that uh a maintenance plan for how to prevent, you know, migrating species from getting into it that we don't want in there. And, you know, we do intend for it to be a um I don't want to call it maintenance-free, but we don't want to be mowing it on like a weekly basis. So, the intention is to let it kind of grow

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and become native. Um so, we'll we'll work with him to figure out exactly what our course of action should be to do that and we'll bring it back to you guys. Casey, >> um where the retaining wall is now, what's above that retaining? Is it grass or is

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it whatever's growing there or >> Yeah. So, they just did um they just did they had a a straw waddle up there for a bit. Um I think that's been there for several years, but um what was up there was grass. It's kind

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of died out, but it is it's supposed to be a grass vegetated >> because I'd like to see that stabilized up the above that I know I keep hopping on that, but above that wall. Y >> make sure that's stabilized. So, make that as part of your >> Yeah. So, we'll add that to the vegetative as part of that landscape deck just to make sure that

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>> if you don't do that, you're defeating the whole >> rest of the hill. >> Agree with you. >> And there's decks up there and stuff too, right? >> You don't want the whole thing coming down the hill, >> right? >> All right. Uh, back to Dave McGlin. Yeah, >> you've been working with DPW. I did I

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hear you say that? >> So, we've been involved with DPW since 2020 on this. >> Could we can we benefit from what they are telling the applicant? Could we see I don't know whether do they give you a report or >> uh so what what we've essentially established is just an agreement between

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the two parties that we are allowed to put a permanent structure within their rightway because as you'll see there's a significant portion of the rightway. >> They didn't have any recommendations about the project itself. >> Nope. >> Okay. Well, but I think you there was originally a retaining wall was under discussion, right? But that idea was abandoned.

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>> So the the short history or the long short of it is the original intention was to put a retaining wall on the property. Now the retaining wall would had to be about what was it 12t max or something like that. >> Yeah. 9 >> 9 to 12 feet which wouldn't have met the

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zoning setbacks. Um, so instead of going for a variance or having a wall that wouldn't have actually done us any good, the original intention was to put the wall within the right of way. Um, the wall would have been constructed and paid for by the applicant and then the town would have taken it over. Um,

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getting that agreement in place took a very very very long time to which we switched gears and became very quickly uh in agreement with the DPW about this product and this is what we've moved forward with because we could not get that agreement in place in the first place.

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Um, would it would it be inappropriate to ask DPW for you some comments on this? It sounds like it sounds like they're actually in approval of this concept. Anyway, >> yes, they I mean I can certainly ask

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Trevor, you know, how it's been in the past with getting them to provide comments to the boards, but we can certainly ask. >> Yes. Okay. >> No, good point, Dave. Good point. Uh, this is a public hearing. So, if somebody from the public wants to step forward now and give us your name and address for the record, that'd be great.

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All right. Okay. No public input, then that's fine. And then back to the commission. Um, >> sounds like a lot of questions, a lot of concerns. >> Motion to continue. No, I'm sorry. >> No, it's all right. Yeah. And I guess this is kind of an open-ended question maybe for David, but is it not counterproductive

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because you're taking out three or four trees, you're stirring up all this stuff, you're putting in these bulletshaped footings that it's basically just mulching the underneath and causing it to be even worse. >> Could be.

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But I think if if I could just I think I think that you know this work is gonna disturb those critical root systems I think. >> Yeah. To my point >> you know to the point where I don't think the trees could survive anyway. Right. >> Right. Yeah. But I mean again it's like

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pardon the comparison but jamming a bunch of candles into a cake until it crumbles apart. Right. I mean how how much can this take? Obviously something has to be done but I mean is is there not another option? I guess or >> I think >> the integrity >> if it wasn't provided we can give you

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the layout of what they had proposed for the anchors. I thought it may have been provided but if it wasn't we can definitely do that. It's not um I don't think it's an overabundance where it's going to you know create that mental image. Um but it's it's basically as designed by the manufacturer for the

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application for this soil type. So um I'm confident what they what they provide. Your neighbor had some work done on the their embankment maybe five years ago. >> I don't know how I don't know how well that held up or I mean they didn't use your mesh thing

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>> and I can't remember what method of construction but it was pretty steep and so it's got five years of experience from redoing it. I don't >> right >> I don't know what number >> can I just offer a kind of a focus comment. It seems to me our primary

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interest is the wetland protection act and the bylaw when our big concern obviously is is sediment in the lake. >> Right? So, at some point, you know, we're not the engineers some point. And I don't know where that point is, but we're going to have to not think about

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the engineering and think about how we keep junk out of the water, which is what leads me to this idea of suggesting there's a contingency plan if the slope stabilization uh has trouble getting established. And so, that's just my opinion. I mean,

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there's some point where I'm not going to understand the engineering. So I mean as part of you know the manufacturer providing this product they've been through this x amount of times. So as you know in addition to getting the registered landscape architect out we would reach back out to them and kind of ask them how they've handled that

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construction process from the >> post install but prior to the you know taking of the seed what do they do? What do they see? What is the typical plan in between there? So and we can provide that back to you as well. >> Yeah. And and and you know just personally I'm not that concerned about I trust the engineering. I'm more

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concerned about the wetland protection act parts. What happens if that four inches of lom on the top or whatever it is, you know, washes into the lake >> because that's what happens. That that that's our biggest concern. >> That's everybody's concern. And of course, we don't want the hill to collapse. But that's not our job.

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>> I mean, if there's a catastrophic, you know, if there's a catastrophe out here and every, you know, everything goes wrong, >> us at the end of the day, it's our lake that's gotten like ruined. So, yeah. >> Right. >> We're concerned. Okay. >> Uh, Mr. Blackman, >> no. >> Motion. >> What? >> Oh, you want to move to continue?

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>> I I think so. >> When did >> when do you want when how much time do you need to get back to us? >> Several years ago, we had a problem in Bara >> on Route 4. >> Yeah. Oh, I remember that. I remember driving >> that slope is >> that was more than 60%. But that was terrible, John. You're right.

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>> That slope I I don't know what that slope was, but it was >> the the problem was there was they did that in the winter. Yes. >> Right. Right. And the ground was >> But what did they put on that? >> It underneath >> that slope is still >> But the ground was frozen underneath. >> They did stabilize it. >> They did stabilize that slope.

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>> It melted. >> It'd be interesting. >> Was it >> I think French did the job, >> but the slope was on route four south. >> That well >> to a mile and a half over the Chelsea line. You can see the houses up in the top. They were afraid some of the houses

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weren't going to go in. >> That was Simmons Farm. >> Simmons Farm. Yeah. That's a big slope. That slope is held. >> Mhm. >> So, >> I don't know. >> Chris, when's our next meeting? >> We're coming back on May 12th.

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>> Do you want May 12th or two weeks after that? >> Uh, let's let's shoot for May 12th. We have a coordination to >> I move we continue the hearing on >> second >> on what is it? >> 21 and 23 7th Avenue to May 12th

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>> 12th. Motion by Dave McLaclin, seconded by Mark. >> Just discussion on the motion. >> Yes. >> So I would just recommend adding some erosion control to the plan as well. >> We have the road control listed at the edge of roadway there. But >> oh, >> in these discussions based on the concerns here, I think what we'll do is

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we'll also add a layer on the other side of Willis if just in case that we'll talk with the town about allowing us to do that. >> And can you just point it out? I'm missing it. >> There's a um the dash line. Oh, >> okay. Because yeah, at the site visit,

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we had talked about putting it on the other side of the road as well, which is where I was looking. Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, David. Good. All right. We have a motion in front of us then to continue to May 12th. All those in favor? >> I I oppose. All right. We'll see you then next meeting. >> Thank you,

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>> gentlemen. He's good. >> It can be done. >> The guy talks. >> Oh, yeah. But it's got to be done, right? Gota be done rookie, >> but we we have proof. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean,

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>> they probably do that. >> Usually thorough to that. >> I know. >> All right. Moving along on tonight's uh regulatory agenda, we have a notice of intent continued from April 14th, 2026. Mr. Brian Wedick,

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96 Park Road, Susan MacArthur, MacArthur Environmental Consulting LLC is representing the applicant. Uh Mr. Coons, where are we with that? >> So, um we uh have received revised plans which you see up on the screen. Um can

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you can you see these plans, Susan? Yes. Uh I can Okay. So um so uh because the bottom line is because the the lot uh was developed so long ago, it um it

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needs to comply with reduce setbacks. Um so it turned out that there was enough um a room uh both uh uh with respect to the front setback and the side setback to get the ADU outside of the 50oot no

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disturb >> which which you can see here. Um, and uh, you know, same same thing with, you know, they could all they could also get in this pave parking area in a in a good location between the existing house and

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the ADU. Um, they're they're proposing what I think is a is a pretty robust uh restoration. um going to remove the this existing slab foundation, the existing driveway, and there's another little bit of

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existing slab foundation down here. That's all going to be removed. Uh going to be re regraded and uh you know, planted also with a with a wildflower uh mix uh create a wildflower meadow, at

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least at least in principle. Um, so maybe I'll turn it over to to Susan at this point. >> Right. Thanks, David. Um, so yes, um, we listened to the commission at the last

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hearing, and I know that you, uh, David, as well as the commission members had some concerns about, um, the location of the ADU being in the buffer, the 50oot buffer, and a little bit in the 30s. So,

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um, we made a complete redesign, pushed it to the south and got it totally out of, um, the 50ft buffer as David had said, and we reconfigured the parking. David, if you want to, uh, pan up a

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little bit. Um, yeah. So, the parking lot now um will accommodate four um four vehicles and that little um push out that's going toward the wetland. That's just the you

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know for like a turnaround uh a back end to get to pull out onto the roadway. Um and to prevent any um oils or even just runoff from the

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pavement of the new driveway, uh we are proposing a crush stone um base around like a water quality swale around the edge that um kind of goes toward the wetland. And David, I know you had asked

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uh for a detail. We um did get a plan back from the engineer with a just a detail on it. Um and I can send that over to you as well. It's just a pretty standard. Um you know, it's I think it's like 2 feet of crushed stone or

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something like that. Um, and then, uh, around the foundation of the ADU, uh, because the water table appears to be kind of high, um, we're not proposing any kind of, uh, dry well,

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we're just going to put a crush stone around the base of the foundation as well. And as David had said, we um well, we originally had proposed to um put in four arborvite around the uh kind of

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like um near the wetland within the 30foot. And uh we took those out uh because the commission didn't seem real happy with those. So we we are proposing um three high bush blueberry and three

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silky dogwood. And then um David, if you pan over toward the shed, we are also proposing um the existing shed proposing two pin oaks over on the side there. And

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there is um that maple. It's a 24inch maple. It's not in the best shape. It's a little diseased, I guess, but um anyway, that will need to be removed as a result of the ADU going in that area.

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So that'll come out. But the two pin oaks are proposed. And then um as far as the wildflower meadow um seed mix, um you know, it's just a standard New England mix. It is not steep. Yeah, I um

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sent David the the list of proposed um species that that could go in there. And um we're just uh as far as maintaining, you know, the homeowner lives on the site, so he'll um be

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there seeing it all the time. And we're just proposing to mow it um at the end of the each growing season just to keep out the woody vegetation so it stays a while uh meadow, if you will. And um

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I think that is it. Yeah, if any um invasives start to pop in um you know again um Brian is on site and there's a great publication by um by Mass Aottabon

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about invasives, you know, with great pictures. So he can certainly refer to that to see if anything is coming in like um hopefully not Japanese notw weed or anything like that. But um but he will be on site and

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>> let me know how he gets rid of notweed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Well, >> chemicals. >> Good point. >> Um >> so I think that's I think that's all. >> Good. Well, I appreciate the improvements and the changes. That's all

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good. Why don't we start down at this end? Peter, any questions, comments? >> Uh yeah. Um thank you, Susan. Good job in uh threading the needle here on this site. You're welcome. >> Yeah, I only have one comment and it's really not directly related to this

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plan, but um Susan, you might mention to your your client or the homeowner um I've had pretty good luck in this same watershed in simply handpulling invasives like once every two years. And I know it

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traditionally if you look up how you manage these wild environments, people do talk about mowing to prevent invasives, but I have found that that's I'm four years in. That's not really a problem. >> It's once you know, you know, what

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buckthornne looks like, once you know what the little bittersweet looks like, >> um, you don't have to even mow it. And the reason I mention that is the more you learn about insects and bees and how they overwinter, Susan, you know this, the best advice is don't mow all that stuff in your meadow, if you're really

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trying to preserve fireflies and other other beneficial insects. So, not a not a big discussion topic for the permit per se. I'm just wanted to throw that out, something to think about. But >> yeah, and I agree. It's it's easy enough

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to pull um you know, if you can get it early like um like you said, buckthornne, you can certainly pull it by hand if it's not too too rooted. Um >> yeah. Yeah. And and I think the point is a lot of these invasives like buckthornne and bittersweet, you mow

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them that makes them happy. Doesn't actually work. >> I mean, it works to keep it cut down, but you know, I' I've got this experience. you know, they they they get excited when you prune them. So, that's the other piece. All right. Thank you. >> Thanks, Peter. Ally, >> all set.

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>> All set, Dave. >> All set. >> Good. Mark, >> uh, couple little things. Yeah. The, uh, the turnaround you have there, ju just bring it back a foot or so, just to get it out of the 50 foot. It's just, you

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know what I mean? Can you see up there? I'm talking about the paved area. >> Yeah. Just just bring it back. So it's out of the 50 foot. >> 30 foot. >> Isn't that Isn't that 50 foot? >> No, that's the 50 foot. >> That's at the 50. >> But but there there is the I mean it's

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>> the no impervious offset is 30 ft. >> Just just >> but but you you'd prefer to have this more than >> put it right to the line. >> But I mean the regulations don't require that, >> right? >> I mean technically it's not a structure. It's

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>> in a building structures. Anyhow, >> she's got room to do it. >> Uh, >> I mean, just just so you know, um, it was hard to kind of finangle the design due to like the zoning setbacks and

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whatnot, but everything um was carefully placed where it where it is um based on, you know, you got your comments as well as the zoning setback. So, >> yep. Did you get relief from the sideyard there

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>> at 14 ft? >> It's not wasn't wasn't needed. >> I don't think it was needed because the structure was built after >> historical purposes. >> Brian, you you might want to check >> 1938. It's only a 10 foot step back for older houses. Yeah.

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>> Okay. All right. Uh the only other thing is that we'd like to have that you're going to take down the old existing SK uh what are you calling it? Existing >> the slab in the shed. >> Yep.

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>> That's all going to be done and and fixed before you start anything any work, right? >> It's not going to be what? >> You're going to repair all that area. >> Well, we can put that in as as a condition. Yes. that that that that the proposed restoration area be completed

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before the start of construction on the ADU and parking. >> Sure. >> Not a not a problem. >> Yeah. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine. >> I'm good. >> Thanks. Thanks, Mark. Yeah, Bill. >> Uh, no, it's a much better plan. I'm fine with it. >> Yeah, much better. Really? Absolutely.

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John, >> I'm I'm happy with it. >> Good. All right. Uh, public hearing. Any public input? >> No public input. Um, I think we're uh are we ready to close the hearing? Yeah, >> I move we close the hearing. >> Uh, Dave McGlo motion to close the

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hearing. >> Second. >> Second by Bill. >> Uh, any discussion before we close? >> All those in favor of closing. I I >> any opposed unanimous. Okay. So, we've now >> So, the only special condition is >> the last one there. >> The last one that Mark mentioned.

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>> I would add another one to that. What is the other? >> Pinning pinning that corner that one corner of the foundation. Yeah, >> that's that's closest to the 50 foot no build offset. Um, and then just asking me to come out. I think that's one I probably could take a tape measure just

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to double check it. Now, this is because the building's going to be on a slab. I mean, it's not going to have a full foundation. I don't know. I don't know if it's going to have a 4ft frost wall, but it's probably just basically a slab. >> So, that that that will be very easy for me to verify. So, just the only other

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special condition. >> Good. Good. Okay. All right. Uh do we have a motion then um uh for an order of conditions with those uh a couple of those special conditions >> with three there were three special conditions I think. >> Well and then I think just the other one

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was that yeah that the the wildflower meadow may be mowed um no more than once annually at the end of the growing season. So that that leaves the option to not mow it you know uh less frequently.

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Okay. Right. So Dave with the motion and uh second by >> second >> my mark. Um any discussion before we vote? >> All those in favor. Any opposed? None. Unanimous. All said Susan. Mr. Chair. >> Great. Thank you so much. I appreciate

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it. >> Thank you. >> Good night, >> Dave. Last comment. >> No. Not on this. Okay. >> But it but it pertains to We've had a couple of discussions tonight about >> what kinds of wild flour seed mix we should pick. I would ask Dave to come up

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with a list of maybe five or six that are appropriate and let people pick from that rather than every time get into a debate as to which one's better. >> Well, I must say this one looked really good to me. >> Yeah. Good. >> And and it'll be really interesting to see if that's what actually becomes established here.

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>> Yeah. >> I won't say I have my doubts, but it'll be interesting to see. >> Yeah. I have uh yeah, some confidence I think that it might work out, >> right? But but but if you look in if you look into the ecology, which I'm just learning, >> nothing wrong with that mix,

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>> but it's wild flowers. And if you start lifting up the hood, what you need in a productive watershed habitat, you'd probably want to throw in some grasses >> and some uh help me out here, uh Forbes or other >> kind of things. That that's that's a

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point >> just so we don't get into big discussions every time somebody comes before us. We have a should have a cheat sheet that he can >> pick and choose from. >> Yeah. But but the flip side is at some point it's a homeowner preference and we probably should just be happy with something like

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>> not if we're going to take 45 minutes to I don't mean we did I don't want to take 45 minutes to discuss the subject. >> Yeah. But we we've taken zero minutes in the last >> I I understand. very turns out it's important. >> We could we could keep pushing that

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though. >> Good good point. Yeah. All right. So, we've uh finished up that notice of intent. Uh and now moving along, we have our notice of intent continue from April 14th, 2026. Donna Culis 9 Lady Slipper

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Lane. >> Received a request to continue that. >> We have a request to continue that to our next meeting of May 12th. >> Moved to continue. >> Moved by Dave to continue. Second. >> Second by Ally. All those in favor. I. Any opposed? Unanimous. All right. Done.

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>> Next up, >> the same thing for the next one. Have received a request for a continuence. They're still trying to work out the outstanding issues. >> Okay. We have a motion for that. >> So moved. >> So moved by Ally. >> Seconded. >> Second.

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>> Second by Bill. Okay. All those in favor of uh the New England Power Company 100 Ecuador road matter being continued to our next meeting of May 12th. >> I I any oppose unanimous. All right. So that's done.

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>> Now um next up notice of intent continued from April 14th. This was again New England power transmission line right aways. >> So I actually did not receive a request for continuance but there obviously no one's here. So just go ahead and continue it. >> All right to May 12th. All right. Do we

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have a motion to continue then? >> So moved. >> So by Ali second by >> second John >> John on the second John. Yeah. >> Trouble is Johnny can't raise his left hand. That's the problem.

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>> The thought that counts. >> John Johnny rais his right hand. All those in favor I have it. All right. All those in favor, please raise your right or left hand. Yeah. All right. So, that takes us to our

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regulatory hearings for this evening. Moving on to discussion. Continual business. Uh David, anything before we jump into land management? >> Uh no, I'll I have a few things to say

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during my report, but nothing related to >> So, now moving into land management. Let's see. Uh, do commissioners have some information on their respective reservations that they overseeing right now? >> Anybody want to jump in? >> Yeah. Well, I went down the Redwing and

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I noticed somebody drove out there. Uh, they didn't go up past the gates going out to the next field, but there was tire marks out there >> and got over the stream. >> No, they didn't go out that way. >> They didn't go. They went up to the stream. >> Close down here. They see tire marks drove down here. >> Great for kids. that guy with the big

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green truck that does photos. >> Well, so so that was going to be my question. So does it look like someone was actually driving around or >> No, no, gentlemen went down and I saw one set of coming down and just Billy saw a sight coming back out. >> Okay. So >> there the other day. >> And I and I did approve that event. I

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was going to mention that during during my report. Yeah, I did I did I did approve an event, the photographic event using the green truck. >> The green truck I heard me the green truck. I >> photographing the truck. >> Well, no, they use the truck.

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>> No need to discuss it. I just >> um I I I I don't recall the exact date, but sounds like that. >> No marks over there. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No marks on top of things there. Yeah, >> the green truck. >> The green truck. I have nothing but the green truck. >> Anything more? >> No, that's it.

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>> Everything was good over there. >> Bill, you want to talk about Kulis? >> Yeah. Uh let's see. Culis uh the sign I think was uh completed last last meeting that's all set. The uh DPW who has planted some

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uh well put some loom around under the sign in the uh in the front of the wall near the street. Uh it looks looks nice. They actually started uh John Ray actually started planting some flowers under the sign today.

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Uh the picnic table, handicap picnic tables is in the works. I should be having that in a couple weeks. And the handicap trail is all done. The today R&D fence started the split rail fence. So they've worked

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their way from out by Pineh Hill Road uh around the vernal pool and a little ways up the side. So they'll be back tomorrow. They're going to continue that uh to where the guardrail comes close to it and they're going to do work on the guardrail tomorrow because we've removed

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all the rocks from the parking area. So, we want to put the guardrail up, put a couple rocks so we can close it back up tomorrow and so no cars can get in beyond the parking area because we had a truck go up there one day, drove all the way up the the uh the path in the woods.

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So, we want to stop that. But, uh it's looking beautiful. The DPW brought down a Bobcat with an augur on it today to help the guys out that are doing the holes. >> Nice. >> So, because it's pretty tough digging out there, they were going to do it by hand, >> which I think that's what we told them,

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visit, >> right? Right. >> You're not going to be able to do that. >> So, the town was nice enough to uh donate a guy in a in a back bobcat with a the augur on it. So, >> which made life a lot easier for everybody. So, no, it's looking good and I appreciate all help from the town and

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and the volunteers. >> Good. >> Have we thought of asking Teledia to do a story on it? >> Who's the woman that did the she did a piece on Warren Paul, remember? >> Yeah, I forget who that was >> when when we finished that. >> Follow up on that.

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>> I don't know who I can't remember her name. I have to go find her. >> We can get that name, Bill. I mean, look at she's always looking for stories. >> And I know Dave Dave Dave Sperry's been putting things on Facebook about as as things get done, >> but she could step from the history and just kind of bring it all together in

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maybe like a 20 minute show or something. >> Right. Right. Right. So, I think in the next actually the seed and they've hydro seedated a couple weeks ago uh a good part of the field and that's starting to grow now. Uh they as soon as the split rail fence is up, they're going to use

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their power rake and and pick up some rocks along that where they're digging right now. And then they're going to hydro seed along the where the fence is too because it's been disturbed. So uh yeah, I think in uh by Memorial Day it's really going to be

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>> in real nice shape. >> Some great teamwork really. People work together. Yeah. >> Bill, a lot of people go in there now. Yeah, they did they >> parking lot very >> well here and you know person here person there but you know you'd be surprised how many people use it. A lot of people walk down from up the street

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too. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's getting a use and uh with the uh the boy scout the project he's going to be doing replacing that temporary little walkway. That'll be another thing that's happening in within a month or two. >> Good.

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>> So everything's coming together. Looks good. They're actually going to be starting to cut the grass next week because it's getting a little clumpy and we want to cut the grass so that before it gets too high because there's still some loose stones here and there we want to >> get them out of the field. Get them out

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before we hit them. >> So, is that for is that just for the field on the left? Also, the field on the right. >> Yeah. Field on the right. We're leaving and let it let it grow. >> Are we going to do anything with the land on the other side of Pine Hill? >> That's kind of cool. >> Caroline Parley just signed a the lease. >> So, it's it's just leased. Okay. Yeah.

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For the week. >> We don't have to worry about it. >> She was assigned at least last week, didn't she? >> Are we still responsible for it? >> Signed it, too. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> Are we still responsible for it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, so Mike Mike Raybeck did not sign a new lease, but he says he's doing more

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bees there >> on that other parcel there. >> Are you still doing pumpkins or he gave that up? >> I think he's gear food. >> What? >> Deer food. >> Deer food. >> Deer food. >> They're not pumpkins. That's deer food. >> Huh? Was he tossing it?

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>> No. No. He was growing. He was growing. >> Then the deer was >> The deer love it. >> Well, he he never did plant. He He killed the soil, but he never did plant. >> Oh, did it stabilize? >> Uh yeah. >> Okay. With with with invasives. >> Very invasive.

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>> Oh, actually one more thing. Uh the DPW a few days ago replaced the tree that was driven over by a kid was doing donuts and he hit the one of the new trees we had put in last year. So that's been replaced within the last week or so. >> Did he pay for it?

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>> Pardon me. >> Did the kid pay for it? >> No, we nobody knew who it was, but >> but the the town uh got us a new tree and and planted it and uh >> John Ray comes down every day and waters the tree. >> EPW has been very good. >> Very good. You can't say enough good things about

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>> Can we Can we recommend Can we recommend a sign, you know, be careful when doing donuts? >> No. >> Sure. >> We don't believe in a lot of signs, right? >> No. >> We try to minimize when we need them. >> Too many signs. >> Yeah.

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>> All right. Well, good. Thanks, Bill. Anything else on reservations? >> Vernal pool on is a reference to >> So, I've gotten I've gotten a I've gotten a couple of emails. hasn't gotten a letter saying, you know, that's not a vernal pool. So, um, you know, it is

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shown as a potential vernal pool, a mass mapper. I I I Bill and I stopped by briefly after the coolest >> site >> site visit and uh I we we couldn't tell. >> Who's saying it's not?

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>> Um, I I I got a letter from Ken Doo saying he sees no evidence that it's a Vernal. Does >> he does he the one the one at Koulis? Yes, >> I have evidence. >> Uh, well, why don't I I I Why don't we just get it, you know, have a professional, you know, certify it. We

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paid we paid Oxbow $2,500 to certify the Warren Pole, Vernal Pool. I suggest let's do the same thing. I mean, it might might be a little bit of inflation. This was like four years ago, three or four years ago. But, I mean, this we've got plenty of money. I suggest we just hire them assuming

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they're available >> to just reason with them. Well, they just put the fence around. >> Yeah. >> I thought that was >> It wasn't certified. >> I thought it was certified way back. >> No, no, no. >> Very few certified vernal pools in this

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town. >> John, it's a little confusing because the mass GIS mapper has identified what they believe from aerial photography is a vernal pool. >> Our bylaw potential, but our bylaw covers that. But the wetland protection

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act, right, that we also administer, it has to be formally certified. >> Yeah. >> And that's not always done. >> It's not that hard. >> No. >> I think Dave has got the right idea, though. Let's put it to bed, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Get somebody. >> You need a motion, Dave?

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>> Uh, yeah. That would that would be good a motion. Let's see. >> How much money do you think not to exceed? >> I mean, it might be again with inflation, it might be a little bit more than $2500. So you can say not to exclude not to exceed 2750 or maybe 3,000 something

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>> about 3,000. All right. We have a motion then not to exceed 3,000 for a vernal pool. >> Wait make motion. >> 500 bucks on 20. That's that's more than inflation. >> It was 5 years ago. Everything's gone up. Dave, >> no. It's that it's 40% increase since

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2021 in most stuff. >> Unfortunately ago, unfortunately. It gives us an excuse to spend our budget, you know, by the end of the fiscal year. And >> you lose it if you don't spend it. >> I make a motion to appropriate the money not to exceed $3,000.

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>> Second. >> Okay. Motion by Mark, seconded by Dave. >> All those in favor? I. Any oppos? None. Unanimous. All right. Thank you. So, that takes us through um that agenda item. And then that moves on to the uh

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complaints about the dog waste and uh >> get rid of the dog. >> By the way, um >> John, I don't know if you were aware, but you were you missed one meeting back a while ago and there was some suggestion that we have a a special dogway subcommittee formed and and was actually mentioned as

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>> congratulations possible chairman of that sub >> chairman. Chairman, right? People thought you'd be like, you know, you'd jump on that opportunity. >> The people spoke, John. >> And the first subcommittee meeting has been posted, >> right?

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>> Well, the agricultural commission has nothing to do. Maybe they could help and John's on that, right? >> Yeah. But, uh, no, I'm not I'm not interested. >> All right. >> Okay. We thought we, >> you know, >> take a shot at it.

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>> All right. So, so I've had >> brought a sidewalk up from that other one. And I'm walking along and this has got nothing to do with, you know, the coolest section. There's dog crap everywhere. >> Where is this, John?

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>> Where we were up at the sidewalk on that. >> Oh. Oh, I didn't notice that. >> Oh, yeah. I noticed it. >> And I noticed the lady walking in with her dog, >> you know. Well, I um since the last meeting, I've had a couple of conversations with Christine, you know,

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DPW again. So, I think what what we've what we've decided on is select uh three sites. Um one one is Southwell, uh which is I guess was really bad. The the other two are Russell Mill and um Cranberry

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Bog because those are the ones that have appeared to have been the worst. um and and get a proposal from this company she's been talking to adjust just to um ma manage like the entrance areas you

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know the areas near the parking lots and the and the you know the main trail heads you know other otherwise to you know submit something to do the ent the entire trail system is just just I don't think it's necessary and I think it's going to be too uncertain

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>> what are you proposing to so there's there's a company that that removes dog waste. Um and uh we Christine and I had a Zoom meeting with them >> and the way we left it with them is that

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they they we would get back to them exactly you know or you know as precisely as we could about what the scope of of you know the proposal would be again. Would it would would it be all of the trail systems for a particular

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reservation or reservations? Um or was it going to be something a little bit more limited? This is going to be more or less a pilot program where I guess they would they would go go out and do the initial cleanup and then maybe monitor it every two or three weeks and just see how that works out.

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So we so I I think what what we've settled on and I think it makes the most sense is you know pick pick three you know being Southwell um Cranberry Bog and Russell Mill look only at the um the entrance areas you know near the parking

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lots and the the main trail heads and you know ask uh ask this company to submit a proposal for those areas and uh and I guess Christine feels she has the money for that kind of a thing for this year.

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>> If I can make a suggestion, I know it's a money thing, so maybe it's the money's not there, but what I've witnessed is, you know, it's the first couple hundred yards of the trail, not just the trail head. And that wouldn't be a very long walk

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for somebody, you know, by the time they drive to the site and park and get out of the vehicle, it's another what, five or 10 minutes to walk. >> A couple hundred yards or a couple hundred feet. cost issue, I guess. I mean, what I've observed are is a couple hundred yards.

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>> That's >> whatever. I I think whatever number you come up with public, >> so people know what they're spending to pick up dog crap. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We have a lot of dog crap after the winter because it stays frozen and it

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hasn't biodegraded in the summer. >> I'm I'm just kind of thinking people see that and they you're spending $500. >> Yeah, that's a legitimate concern. On the other hand, you know, I the complaints I've gotten, you know, the people feel really really strongly about

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that as well. You know, feel >> are they doing anything about it themselves? >> Uh, no. >> Yeah. Right. >> So, okay. I'll um I'll talk to Christine, see if we can maybe expand it a little bit. But, >> but that's a good point, Mark's point. I

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mean, it would be once a week at least, right? Yeah. Be like 500 bucks every week. >> Well, no, no, not not for the pilot program. Again, the pilot program is just this initial cleanup and then and then maybe for a couple two to three every two to three weeks, maybe for a

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couple of months. I mean, I'd like to think that we just have a pilot, we see how it works, and then >> yes, >> a lot of it's because of we're coming off the winter and that I'd like to think that most most people dog owners are going to be responsible out there and pick up after their dogs.

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>> Not. >> So, so that's the plan. I mean, we don't want to commit, you know, a large sum of money right at this point. >> But, uh, >> we should try to educate the public in Paul's letter or we don't have our own letter, right? Paul has a quarterly letter or something. We should have

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something we discuss it. You got to educate the public, too. I >> mean, a lot of times it's probably dogs off leash, too. >> Yeah. >> Out of control. And the owners don't really know. >> I don't think the dog really knows or cares. >> No, I I don't think the dog cares too much. Good point.

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>> That's >> Well, that's and and that and and Chris, that might be something to think about next time we discuss this is a little bit of a PR >> Yeah. campaign. We can use the DPW Facebook page. We can use town manager

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newsletter. Um, we can use Facebook post. >> Honestly, like the clerk's office, if I might add, they've been doing some really cool PR stuff out of there. >> Something like that. I mean, you can have some fun with it, but you can still educate people. And, you know, >> it may or may not have a dog costume.

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I'm just going to throw that out there. >> Wow. >> We need something. And and there's some thought that that it's the same offenders at, you know, different reservations, you know, maybe very small group. >> Well, thanks thanks for the update and and

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>> we have we have no subcommittee right now on this issue. >> You you you made that one out. >> Remember I I specifically asked when I came back that I didn't get volunteered for anything and I was told no, you didn't. So that's why I'm voting.

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>> Close enough. It It was a secret vote. >> Okay. What's next? >> All right. So that takes us through our land management. >> Can I say one more thing, Chris? Did I know uh just for your information? Southwell boat ramp. They fenced that

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off. >> Yes. >> And they staging that to start working on the boat ramp. I know that's something we >> Well, that was two years ago. I didn't approve it, >> but there >> people are complaining about it in Facebook. I don't think they realized the project was approved two years ago. >> Right. >> When was the last time you were up

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there, Bill? >> Uh, yesterday. >> Have Have they put in the silk court the silk curtain and started the coffer dam yet? >> I didn't see that. >> I was told they were going to start last Friday. >> I didn't go down and you know, I didn't

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go beyond that fence. the gate >> they're putting in a coff >> because that's a big that's a long stretch of concrete they're putting in. It's not it's not 15 feet. It's it's like 75 ft I think or >> a big project when they brought it before us. >> Yeah.

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>> Actually, maybe you better pull up take the file out so we can see what it looks like. >> Well, >> but I just want to say they're working on it anyway. >> Good. >> Well, I asked them to let me know when they were going to be, you know, putting in the coffer dam and I haven't heard from them. So, my assumption is they haven't started that yet. I didn't when that was there.

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>> Keep the water out so they can work inside. >> All right. All right. Thanks, Bill. Uh, jumping along then, agents report. >> So, first thing is, uh, on the the enforcement order is 233 Mill Road. Um, I've

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approved a little bit of back and forth. I've approved a work a wall removal work sequence um for, you know, getting the wall out of the 20 foot uh 25 foot. you know, um, and disturb set back. So, I

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they they say they're ready to start doing that. I've I've asked them to I've asked them for the date, you know, let me know the date you're actually starting that. Um, so and then the enforcement order says that that they're supposed to provide me with a

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restoration plan by May 15th. So, it's a little bit of time to do that, but I'm assuming they're going to be late. Um, you know, since they've been late on this part of it, but I mean, slowly but surely, they do seem to be complying. So,

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>> um, that's that one. On the other enforcement order, which was cleaning up all the junks, you know, trash, debris, um, at the UPS buildings, um, I received a call from their environmental coordinator saying that that has been completed. I'm scheduled to meet with

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him tomorrow um at first at 90 Brick Hill, which is, you know, the old facility that's now been abandoned, uh to check it out. Um certainly any commission members who are interested are certainly welcome to join us. >> What time was that going to be? >> Uh that's at 100 p.m.

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>> 1 p.m. at at 90 Brick Helm. >> Okay. >> Um so that's where that stands. Um, the next thing is, um, you you saw the email that I that I forwarded you from an LSP

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who who was assigned to working on a an oil spill on Route 495 um that um was supposedly cleaned up by Clean Harbors. As you saw from the email, he didn't have much good to say

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about Clean Harbors. He doesn't think they did a very good job, but he he seem he seems to you I had a long phone conversation with him. He seems to be really conscientious. He said he really he really wants to make sure that this is done right. Um and seem seems like

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he's he's um going to, you know, u ma manage it properly with the company. Well, with with Clean Harbors, I guess. Um so he's just he's going to get on he's going to keep on their case. He's gonna update me regularly

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um on this. So I it sounds like we're in the best hands we could be. >> That's one of the toughest letters I think I've seen from a bureaucrat. >> Yeah. >> He's he was the LSP. He's trying to avoid trouble with the bureaucrats. Where was it? What watershed or what wetland?

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>> This is close to the uh the water district area, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Drinking water. Looks like it was close to the Route 3 interchange. >> Oh, okay. Ruth three and 495. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Remember that one, Dave? >> Where we had one five years ago? >> That's >> Yeah, something like that. I Yeah.

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>> Is something about that stretch of Route 3? >> Yeah, it's one of the top the the 490 that stretch of 495 is one of the top >> Well, this is before you get to 49. >> Well, that Yeah, but the whole Yeah, it is one of the top. >> There's no I mean, it's pretty straight unless they're speeding, but this is the

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second big one in a five or six years. Well, there's a big one three years ago that was on Route Three South that spilled into the same wetlands or potentially spilled, I should say. >> And that one's affecting billa more is affecting chimps. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But it came into the same water.

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It came in the same wetland that the water district used. >> Um, >> yeah. >> So, the good >> I I just want then one more thing. >> Yeah, Dave. So, uh, the the tri board

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joint meeting. >> Oh, yes. you know, conservation commission, planning board, and board of health um scheduled to um review, I think is is the right word, the the consultants um

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recommendations. Uh you know, draft recommendations for the um the gap analysis that's scheduled for I think it's six o'clock next um Tuesday. Yep. >> You a week from today. I'll go back and double check. Yeah. So, um I will I I

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will I will forward uh tomorrow. I I will forward I I mean who who's interested? Anyone? >> I mean Peter's going to go. All right. >> I want to go. >> I'm going to go too. >> Okay. >> David, you might want to go to this. >> What is gap analysis? >> Can I explain? >> Sure. >> Peter,

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>> I'll try to explain. Uh I'll try and make this quick. So about three years ago, you may recall in one and you were in on the board at that time. A couple of our public hearings we raised the question how does the town look at

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aquafer protection and the answer is there's multiple parties involved board of health water district planning board um us uh so it the actual interaction or the way those different boards look at at

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protecting groundwater seem to be a little bit different and then that got turned into the word gap analysis. What are the gaps in our permitting and regulatory oversight or review of new plans? >> Not not generally accepted accounting,

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>> right? Well, I fig it was initials for something else, right? Another acronym. We need more acronyms. That's right. So, so the board of health took the lead and they've been working with a a licensed site professional with expertise in this kind of thing now for what, a year or two? >> Yeah. >> And there's been a process and a work

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plan and here are the results. Okay. >> Recommendations. >> Yeah. So, should be good. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. I'll I'll just forward everyone the the the consultants draft. >> 6:30 next Tuesday. >> I think it's six. >> 6. >> I'll look it up.

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>> 6 down for 6:30. >> Thank you, Chris. >> Yeah, me too. >> All right. Anything else, Dave? >> Uh, no. >> All right. So, >> who's who's running the meeting? >> I assume that'll be the board of health. Is it here town hall?

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>> Uh yeah, I think >> it's post it's posted, right? >> Yeah, I think it's in room two. >> Does that mean it's their meeting? >> Yeah. >> Then you guys ought to rotate chairmanship. >> It's at the library meeting room. >> Oh, it's the library. >> Okay. >> The library. Thank you, Chris.

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Um All right. So then moving along, we have our minutes. We have uh Vivian's cranked out three minutes. So, we've got >> I didn't realize you guys were doing so much. >> We're busy group here.

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>> You didn't know what you volunteered for, Dave? >> February 10th, we have February 24th and then we have March 10th. And as you can see from our detailed minutes, five pages on that date.

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>> Well, I did see gap. >> That's where I saw the word. >> Yeah, exactly. All right. So, let's see. Let's take a focus on February 10th first here. Carl was still with us back then.

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>> That seems wo to what you said there. >> Hey, you know, he he listened into our last meeting. He might be out there listening to us now. So, so he's still with us. >> I'm sure he's got something better. >> He offered some suggestions after the

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last meeting and he came >> very helpful >> input. >> Thank you, Carl. >> All right. Uh, do we have someone to make a motion on the minutes of February 10th? >> Soved. >> Allie on the motion.

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Seconded by >> second >> second by Mark. All those in favor I >> I. >> Any opposed? None. Unanimous. All right. So then Dave like abstain. >> What's that? >> Dave abstains, right?

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>> Yes. Because he wasn't here at that point. So yes, that would be wise. >> How can I abstain? I wasn't a member. >> It's all right. I don't care what you say. All right, moving on to our next meeting

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and that was February 24th. Thank you for calling the animal the fisher a fisher >> and not a fisher cat. >> I was married to the >> I make a motion that we approve >> February 24th >> second minutes.

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>> Second motion by Mark, seconded by Bill. All those in favor? Any oppose? Unanimous. And then finally moving to March 10th. March 10th, the first reporting of

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drones hunting down beavers. What did Clancy find out about the cap there? Does it did it was it a breach in the cap? >> Uh I I I believe that pursuant to the um you know D's original approval of the

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landfill c I'm sorry the cap um the town is required to monitor do regular monitoring. Do they do they remedy it with repair or they just >> um that it it depends on on the results of the investigation. Um I don't think they've actually done the test pits yet.

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Um if they haven't, it's very soon. And then and then on that basis, you know, based on those results, they they'll they'll have to make a decision. You know, does does this warrant, you know, very very minor work? Is it more of a major repair?

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>> Who makes the decision? D. Uh yeah, probably ultimately they probably do. >> Yeah, we don't have enough experience in here. DPW doesn't >> All right. March 10th. >> So moved.

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>> Mark on the motion. Alli on the second. >> Oh, sorry. >> It was it was like split second. Wow. So close. >> All those in favor? I. Any oppos? >> Unanimous. And that takes us to a motion to adjurnn. >> So move.

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>> So move by Dave. >> Second. >> Seconded by Ally. All those in favor? I. >> And unanimous. >> Does anyone know where in Carile the refuge is going to go?