##VIDEO ID:_cZsa6-VMvE## yeah uh what what are you looking for we have plan for Harold Street um sorry I did not print that out um but I'll put it up on the screen okay it's just it's a simple RDA which was okay yeah we were busy anyway at 6:30 [Music] oops pet seems to be in pain oh yeah yeah sure what do you want money for you you selling them start start in just a right forget it then Christmas is coming yeah I'm on a fixed income all right let's get started here good evening it's now 7 o'cl on Tuesday November 2012th uh 2024 this meeting for the choun Conservation Commission is being called to order my name is Carl Bishoff I'm the chair of the commission we will be following the published and posted agenda this meet and there was an amended agenda uh this meeting is both in person and through zoom and in the case of the of Zoom not working properly we will continue the meeeting in person this meeting is being broadcast and recorded by the choun tele media and will be available on their website and YouTube and just to look around we do have a quorum we have six uh members here so we're good to go the commission is charted to protect our natural resources most specifically the wetlands and to manage land held in conservation so we will start the evening with our Open Session uh citizen concerns is there anyone here that wants to talk about anything that's not on our list that uh uh wants to say something changing the coat not getting up okay so the next item on here is um we want to talk about the Willis Drive Conservation Commission Parcels um David do you want to talk about that for a moment sure unless Darlene you'd like to I don't know if you're going to present the spreadsheet that I sent you uh I I I can certainly bring that up um there there has been some um uh since the last meeting where this was discussed there has there has been some I think progress so um I can certainly update the commission on that you have to explain the spreadsheet sure can you uh you need to come up here and give your name up to that um Podium over there yeah sorry my name is Darlene farell I live on Sixth on the lake and I've been fighting for a very long time to protect the conservation property at the bottom of the hill with people have uh parked their um swimming docks and boats and you name it they Market private property and all of that so recently there's a a dock and a a boat and they're marking it keep off but it's on conservation so that's kind of the background I know there probably more to it but um it prompted me to do some research on what property was conservation and I came up with six properties um so if you can move to the left on the spreadsheet can me just speak into the Micon David can you move to the left on the spreadsheet yeah uh sure I have bad Vision so I'm going to understand so um so so your left darling to the left here okay you can just do your left clicker your your arrow on your keyboard um yep hold hold on a second ah just um no on the keyboard the the arrows there there you go keep going there you go there you go anyways if you click on the Willis Drive Link it'll bring you to the prop property description I'm not sure what you actually call that document if you want to just do one so you can see what we're talking sure um actually why don't why don't I do one that some more information already so this is some form of document that the town has on the piece of property so I provided that information for each of the properties so if you go back to this spreadsheet then you go to the right um it gives more information on the property and then on the bottom here is pictures of each of the conservation properties and many of those um properties people have marked as private property and they have their cars parked and they have picnic tables and other people have um like this piece here if you go further down image people don't even have use their driveway anymore they just park on on the lake so I would like to propose that the town protect these conservation properties and possibly mow down the the grass so that it looks pretty like conservation land so this is very helpful Darlene thank you um so I I had actually uh identified four Parcels um prior to hearing from Darlene um so uh and and I had um sent uh a request for a proposal to uh Town Council or I'm sorry um the the surveyor that the town has been using to um to uh map the boundaries of the parcels um two and and and the four Parcels that I um uh Incorporated in that request were uh this one 84125 uh 8 1841 and 23 which is I think the commission is very familiar with this one already um the the other one uh 18413 and uh 1841 21 now um for 18 uh 20 1841 23 and 1841 25 um there's an actual deed the the the deed reference in um the Assessor's Database is an actual deed directly to the coner Conservation Commission um turn turns out that the uh another one I think it's uh 18 4128 was also conveyed in the same deed yes which uh I did not realize um until until I got Darlene's spreadsheet so but but anyway I I I had a phone conversation with um the the surveyor about um the ones for which they're have the Deeds the other the other two that I looked into are actually just final judgments uh by um the uh the land court or um the uh the tax title Court where where the town Treasurer um took a fi file to for the town to take possession of them for non-payment of real estate taxes so you know that's that was um not much to work with I mean we don't even know actually that for sure that they were ever even turned over to the Conservation Commission uh there would have had to be a town meeting vote to do that and they may the records May for that may be there but that that could take a little bit of digging to uh to find those um so so the way I the way I left it with the surveyor was that he he he would just focus on the two that are in the deed I think now now that I know there's this third parcel that's also in the deed I'll I'll ask him to to include this one in the proposal as well um so that's what I'm waiting for is are the ones at the end the sixth in the deed those are yeah uh yes so those those those lots the one with the the that might have the boat dock on it okay that's a deeded yeah yeah that's that's this one there there this one there is an actual deed okay rather than just a final judgment from tax title court so three of the six Parcels darling brought to our attention three of them are clearly under Conservation Commission yes and the other three is in this gray area you describ right and well and two of them you're right two two of them I know definitely are I haven't I haven't looked at you know what the assessor has for deed reference for the sixth one but I will do that um so I am I I am waiting for a proposal from this the surveyor so I say I will contact him and ask him to add the the third parcel that's in the deed to it uh as well and then and then it's and then it's a matter of him going back and doing the research you know best he can to uh delineate the boundaries well to to determine the boundaries and then delineate them out in the field so which three would be sir survey so that that would be this one uh 1841 23 um 8 1841 25 and 1841 uh 28 V the 18413 uh well that that one as I say I did not I I the way I left it was him with him was that we would first go back and uh answer Ain whether or try to ascertain whether um it was this parcel is actually belongs to the Conservation Commission I mean it belongs to the town in any case the other the other the other thing too is a cost I I you know I want to get um you know spoke I've spoken to the town manager about this as well try try and get some idea of how much these ones are going to cost because these might be the the cheapest so but the one that's 18 413 if it's a town property shouldn't the people have to remove all the debris that they put out there in Mark as private property well I I think that would be the case for any of them where that's happening once once we've established the boundaries and and established you know the ownership um you know I I I I in my opinion I'm going to recommend this to the town manager is that title exams need to be done because even e even if we know where the boundaries are you never know when a butter could say could say well you know that I own that property the town doesn't have a clear title to it so that's a potential issue as well now now hopefully hopefully where we have an actual deed for three Parcels to the Conservation Commission hope hopefully that's less of an issue but but but the the grantors in that case may not have had clear title you know I also know there's two different types of surveys uh from experience of my property do you know what kind of surveys they would be doing um uh no I don't for sure but I I think it's it's going to be whatever survey um Can can best you know uh uh delineate the boundaries um and we'll we'll see what he says in the what the surveyor says in the proposal so one of our concerns is that the where where that boat ramp is is right where the town property meets up with a non- toown property and the question is is that boat ramp on our property or on thej on the abing property and standing there I've stood there and I can't I don't know exactly where that is it's very very close so that's that's why we need to have that particular one but if there's others as well we need to address those as well do they have to own that property to be a will put something on the water well that could be a different issue if they put it on the water without getting the right process for for doing that and that that that's something that we've had some discussion about as well but we're trying to do this one thing at a time okay yeah I appreciate you hot but but but I think I think the goal here is to identify who owns what yep and then for Town property uh have some sort of permanent marker yes so you don't have to deal with this forever it's been like seven years right signage right so so that is the goal right to make it yep clear and and in fact we have property all around Freeman Lake it's not just the Willis Road we have Parcels yeah on both sides and Parcels all over town so some there's some other places we should be doing the same thing and and if I yeah and if I could State the obvious you you just said it I there are other Parcels around the lake and we're probably going to have this process go on for a while as more and more Parcels yeah you know it would be nice though if at the end you could you know mow it all down and not all the time but just to beautify the lake right I know I asked the um the town before to clean up the the lake where the um veteran section is and they did a beautiful job and put rocks and then I requested in front of the Legion which they did clean up so I'm grateful for all that you're doing good Darlene thanks very much thank you thank you okay question uh sure but you need to come up to the microphone yeah it is still open session John Kelly did a dunshire drive even though I don't live right on the pond I spent a lot of time there by the spillway there's a beach there and a boat launch it's designated as boat launch why is that thing who puts a chain across that and locks it that's the Fire Department fire the the fire department has said that only emergency access is allowed so there's no longer canoe access there or anything like that or not not through the chained um section that if someone can get a canoe or kayak in on either side yeah they can but okay thanks thank you next uh next up is uh we have Mr Piper uh talking about uh the down trees at the Crooked spring reservation good evening could you give us your name and address yep uh first off thanks for having me this evening uh Greg Piper um uh Precinct four uh one moccas lane so I have bought uh uh the Crooked spring reservation there um off Granville Road um be 30 years uh that I've lived there so um uh over the years I've participated you know with the town as a steward I don't know that that program still exists or not but as an abutter one of the things that that I've done in the past is you know kept uh Trails clear um so apparently if you can see with these pictures here all those down trees um there were some kids that came through there it seemed like a a period of time and they were just pushing pushing them over um I don't have a picture of it but the the original Trail there's a trail that drops down into the fire Road uh it was all covered so I I cleared it and in doing so I I created a pile um looking at that and this runs all along that Ridge line so the ridge line will run along moccas and and then further on down to the uh to the fire Road um it's it's all it's all through there so a couple things number one it looks bad number two uh probably a fire hazard especially coming up that Hill and really the question here is can we get a crew in there to uh to clean it up and you know one approach uh that I've had a discussion with and you know Phil stanway and kenu is um getting a chipper in there and they've actually offered to to do that I think K's got a he's got access to a private equipment so really the question is um you know can we get in there with a crew I'd be part of that crew to get that cleaned up and get it chipped and basically run that whole ridge line and get it cleaned up um I think the the chipping would just go back onto the ground I don't know that we would need to haul that away or not but so that's really the question what the process is if there's a process if there's concerns with liability um I think we got the uh the able bodies here the question is you know process okay uh I I've been there many many times and I know exactly the spot that you're talking um it's a very Sandy area this is formerly the route three uh Construction in the 50s or 60s or something like that I think you know the history right yeah more or less yeah yeah so and interestingly that area it was I think it was sand all sand and then the trees all grew up at the same time which is why they're all dying at the same time and there's no vegetation other than the trees speak there's a there's a handful of Furs but I'd be surprised if they are going to last um yeah I think the way the the the history I heard was that those were all saplings that were planted in there to retain that hill and they were to be it's one point they were going to be thinned out well I think by they happen it's happening so um I think it would be good if we could clean that up I think we've got a we've got a team kind of poised to do that um I I talked to a few folks about that Ken and Phil are ready to go and so really it's a matter of uh you know the process now it's not you know maybe you can educate me are the are the stewards um still active I mean I was a Ste one time pH Phil's still you know Phil's still active as the cost uh in town yeah c yeah um my so let me let me open up to the commission for questions I have a couple of comments and questions but let me ask you guys what your what your thoughts are Peter um well hi thanks for coming in sure and I'm going to start by saying I actually don't have an opinion uh but I did want to say that this commission's mandate is spelled out in the town bylaws yeah and those mandates there's eight things we're supposed to pay attention to and one is wildlife yep uh another is is forestry stuff so my first question is what's the right thing to do for those values that this commission is supposed to be proteced let's just use Wildlife as as a as a example and we're up against my knowledge I don't know the answer to my question but in a natural Forest you need dead trees on the forest floor to support what we're supposed to protect Wildlife mhm and it's not just the wildlife we see but it's all the little bugs and critters you know you can study up on this so all I'm my only view is I don't know what the right solution ution is but that that's one point the second I wanted to make is um I've been on this commission two years and I don't think the collective we have an answer to the following question is our conservation land to be managed like a park or like the woods I saw recently in Europe where they do clean all the stuff out of the forest or are we supposed to be managing our properties in a more natural way which means some amount of dead stuff stays on the ground now this is a little bit unusual you know because it all happened at once and it probably is good in terms of the thinning and and and so forth but I'll just leave a final thought um this stuff falling in the ground and rotting is what supports the next generation of vegetation native shrubs and non-native shrubs and stuff growing on the forest floor and that might be one reason why there's not a lot of vegetation plus perhaps the deer eat everything so anyway my only comment is this is an ecological question unless the town just decides it's going to look like a park and we're going to rake everything out I don't have the answer to those questions yeah yeah Fair your commentary yeah Chris you have a thought yeah I mean my initial um kind off the cuff reaction and you know is that I'm I'm kind of okay with this um particularly with the really serious fire threats that we have right now to Public Safety so I my off the cuff reaction is yeah I'm I'm good with it Mark thoughts yeah I with I agree with Peter and I agree with Chris there has to be we just can't go in here and clean everything out right there has to be something B yeah yeah yeah I don't know I don't have the knowledge to know how how much is too much and what should be left there I think this is a little different because these were pushed over right yeah these were not these none of that's natural that's all pushed over and uh you know again um I've been through Thicket in Maine and you know you can break legs walking through Thicket right not the people are walking through the thicket here right um so yeah natural naturally that that'll that'll accumulate like that and it's impassible sometimes um this here I think um there's a lot of people that go through there it's it's kind of it's an it's kind of an eyesore I don't think we have to do a clean sweep I think that what we can do is get the the big stuff out we can get that chipped up we can leave some of the smaller stuff behind that's not a big deal um it's a lot of work there is a in the Forefront there is a pile that got put up because of the logs that were pushed across the trail originally you couldn't pass the trail um I wish I caught the kids honestly um but uh you know and living living being in a butter there there is a lot of wildlife there we've got barred owls there you know we've got the uh a number of hawks that Nest there uh and uh we have all kinds of wildlife that comes through there the the her of deer that we all enjoy in town they pass through there so um I think that it would be done with a lot of care I think that we would be we would certainly consider you know hey let's not let's let's be careful of the Clean Sweep and let's leave the natural stuff where it is I agree with you on that that's important well I think you raised the important question how much because um you know you're talking about the value of of owls and whatnot well what do they eat well they eat Little Critters where do the critters grow and and whatnot in the forest floor so if you're running equipment in but you know what I'm saying yeah maybe they'll take some mice out of our houses for us but but you know what I'm saying it's sort of a tradeoff um about what the town wants this thing to look like yeah that's all do you value the barn owls or do you value you know it looking pretty like a like a park okay well I think I agree with you but I think here with the trees being pushed down a lot of them being pushed down I wouldn't want to take them off out but maybe ones that are Hazard there's a lot of them hanging up on other there's a lot of hangers there um and um what what would be your plan would you cut these trees in sections and drag them down to AIP them so on the left hand side there's a there's an AIS Road right it's a dirt Access Road um so I think the idea was is to uh um I think Kenny was going to use his tractor to bring in his chipper we'd bring that up into the up to the edge of that Hill there it's a Sand Hill that comes down that's the trail um on the downside on the downside I would drag those to the edge of that trail and then we would chip back into the woods on the on the bed and we would go work our way down as far as we thought we would need to work down and would you drag them with Excuse me with the tractor no no no I would pull them up by hand you can pull those out by hand I'd probably cut them in half and pull them out by hand and then I'd lay them along the edge and we'd put them through the chipper and you know I don't think we'd want to have a giant pile I think we want to distribute it so it's it looks natural and is even right you you know the pine needles have come down already but I'll tell you what you you've seen these Force when the fall leaves and the fall pine needles come down just just covers everything so what's the liability for I mean a chipper can do a lot of damage to someone if they're not doing it every day they're not used to running working on a machine like that you have volunteers yeah I check with I check with uh Phil and and he said that Ken this is Kenny's equipment he has access to the equipment so it's his line of work according to Phil so he's familiar with the equipment but if you can have other people throwing the logs in there and somebody gets caught on a branch and it sucks you in yeah that yeah is this something we want to be doing on one of our sites running a chipper I guess you know might be a little difference if if say uh volunteers cut them up pull them down to a spot and then you hire someone to chip them that's got their their got their insurance and everything in line I don't know what I'm just bringing something that's a good point I mean I mean I don't know I'd have to check with Ken I you know I've been going through Phil so I'd have to check with Ken to see what he's got for equipment and it well it sounds like this question has not come up and we kind of need the answer to this what's the town liability right for the public I don't I don't know specifically about a chipper but in general volunteers working on Town property are covered across the board but they're covered when you're doing something reasonable and and a chipper might be like that's not you know could be know beyond that maybe you H somebody toip let's it's let's hold on that for a minute um anything else bill John I think a lot of this is a safety issue I yeah these things are called widowmakers okay little kids somebody does a tree make noise when it falls in the forest lands on not a willow tree lands on a squirel Willow Tree they land softly right little trees don't really grow in the forest so that's a safety issue get the stuff knocked down disperse it chip it up the critters are going to come back no matter if it's chipped or if it's a log okay they're going to come back the liability part like you say it's coming under the town if the guy owns the chipper let him be the one who does the chipping you know with this stuff hanging like this there's a name for it it's a Widowmaker yeah especially if a little kid most of that's in the woods though that's not near the trail yeah if go they playing there and somebody else pushes that and it falls on them okay I'd say get the stuff knocked down and get it at least to the floor I I think that I'm not comfortable with the chipper at the moment unless we hear we we need to get that confirmed with the town okay so why don't I take that as an action well okay so I'll let you go ahead I was say David maybe you can talk to Paul I I can but I mean another way around that would be to ask DPW to do it yeah well that that's where I was going to go is I I I think it makes sense that the DPW has been doing a lot of this kind of work with us on other sites um they've been at kolis quite a bit um the the last year and even the last few weeks we can ask them to come over to that site I don't know if they have a chipper but they can uh they can certainly do an awful lot of work um with a crew and um get a get a lot done in a in a fairly short amount of time and we're at the end of the of their normal season and heading into winter so this kind of a project fits into their somewhat fit not to speak for them but but but even before that Carl the last email I got on this was that they're too dry to chip oh from uh the town no from Phil oh he did okay he said too dry he said he said they're too dry to chip so the chipping is off oh that's was that recent yeah that was I can bring up that that's actually I I have done chipping and uh if it's if it's green it's still a lot of work but it can chip the more dry you get it much much harder and these are I I've been there these are all oh yeah they're all dead Pine so right here he's saying removing from sight is the only safe option um as oh that's that's as of today yeah okay huh oh I didn't uh yeah but but moving him from site is not best environmental practice Yeah so keep that in mind as you work we work through a decision here yeah I think so so here here's a suggestion um go in and carefully knock down everything you can knock down okay um maybe the thing I worry about is if you stack everything up close in some area for then you end up like that's your big that's your big fuel P that's a fuel pile and it's eyesore and it's you know it's it's less natural looking for sure to Peter's point if we if we stack it all up and pull it out that's you know our our one of our things for conservation sites is don't remove any any material from the site yeah we can wave that and maybe that's the right thing to do here for you know a quarter of it or a half of it just because there's so much in a in a dangerous spot I'm I'm sorry to interact can I put a finer point on that though the reason I'm presenting that idea of leaving it in place is it's a sand pit that was stripped of all the stuff you need to grow the next generation of trees and so you want that natural replenishment over time I mean yeah so maybe the thing to do then is to uh you know U get the uh get the eyes sour down the ones that are the hangers down get them get them maybe diced up and drag them into locations where they'll just sit and uh you know not make a not make a an eyes sore of a pile but just kind of distribute a little bit Yeah that would be thing to do otherwise there's an axis Road I mean they would come in there and it' be an access excuse me you don't want to just leave them in place well the the ones that are leaning up you definitely need to knock down yeah we could well yeah no no I understand that but once you knock them down or they're on the floor they're to John's Point that's not a safety hazard let's let's start with that yeah why don't we do that um I'll shoot uh David some pictures when when that part of the job is done okay and um yeah we'll just distribute that a little bit more than as opposed to uh you know create the piles well in this in this email from Phil it says the plan is to haul it out on Friday so I don't know we're not we didn't talk about that we're not authorizing removal right okay so so I can let Phil know that yeah that that um that what the commission authorizes to to uh take down the Widow makers and cut them up y or just leave them leave them where they are yeah we'll just make it safe make it safe make it safe first okay so that's that'll be the order of businesses to make it safe yep I think I think that's a good start I mean we're just hitting this tonight for the first time so yeah no I get it and this is just one piece of property in all of town right yeah and and and by the way you mentioned fire safety ask our fire safety Chief their opinion it it's not that turn the TV on it's on TV every night I I know the answer they're going to say get rid they're going to say pull it out well no actually not when I talked to them few months ago about this not this project but in general well yeah I think we should all Pray For Rain too I think that's good start though cut them out of the so they're not lean in the trees lay them on the ground it's safe I'll shoot you uh David good to meet you I'll shoot you some pictures when that's done I'll have a chat with uh Phil I just I was at it all day at work so I didn't pick up this mail I should have taken so we're not authorizing anything being taken out of it just knock it down knock it down all right there's plenty there all right appreciate the uh thank you for coming in appreciate really appreciate you keeping an eye on the site too I mean it's cross the street it's great and enjoy those owls they great thank you all right thank you com uh sure we're still in Open Session thing hi Sia Fernandez DCH drive but I noticed what he was talking about um a place to look is Lexington and conquered the minute man National Park they do a lot of tree moving around there where they actually take them and they take the Fallen logs and then they line like the trails with them or they leave and they move and it's a lot of different options because it allows for decomposition allows for to grow in them animals to be in there and just disperse them out but you know just a thing to see like if you want to see other options thank you very much thank you all right thank you good night thank you all right so next on our agenda let's keep moving here um we have a report from our friendly liaison from the planning board hello Chris hello so tomorrow's meeting we've got uh start at 6:30 with a work session to start reviewing required changes to the flood plane bylaw and map uh coming from FEMA um so we'll start reviewing that um for new hearings we have a change of use at Drum Hill Plaza and then for continued hearings we have a payot drive uh 10 Independence Drive with an adult daycare and then uh 313 Littleton Road uh sead Apartments that's pretty much the agenda for tomorrow if any of you are interested in the flood plane information I'm assuming you are um will'll be starting that at 6:30 to 7: I don't know how far we're going to get okay good um hi a quick question I apologize I've been traveling uh on payot uh in the planning board discussions was there any talk about whether or not the actual culdesac could be uh deed somehow to the owners and be used for parking more formally that did not come up in the meetings um but we had the same question you guys did last uh meeting about why this was coming up and what could potentially be done and um there was a DPW letter attached to our agenda for tomorrow's meeting uh that has some background information from DPW okay thank you okay thank you thanks Chris appreciate it go to the plan AB board to find out all right so next uh next up our regulatory hearing we we have to go to the plan AB board to find out why this being done do we have that letter from the DP I don't know we'll how's that work we we'll get there we'll get there in the in the we have that on our agenda so we'll get there so next uh is the RDA for uh we have a request for determination of applicability for Adam and Amy Klein Klein at 7 Harold Street and Susan MacArthur is representing the applicant and uh we need to read the uh the notice uh Mr chairman pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetlands protection act Mass general laws chapter 131 section 40 in the chood wetlands bylaw chapter 187 the chelwood Conservation Commission will conduct a public Hearing in room 204 at the T chelwood town offices on Tuesday November 12th 2024 7 p.m. to consider the request for determination of liability filed by Property Owners Adam and Amy kinst for proposed work within 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated Wetlands at 7 Herold Street further identified as assessors map 95 block 368 lot five the project entails installation of an above ground pool and relocation of an existing shed chair thank you do we have Susan on think you're there Susan right you yes yeah um may I share my screen yes all right can you see that yes okay um again I'm Susan MacArthur from MacArthur environmental Consulting um I believe also um in attendance are the Cs um that is Adam and Amy and and was waved oh okay um so the uh Point 39 acre lot um contains a single family um home a paved driveway uh two sheds there's one located over here and one kind of at the end of the driveway um forested Uplands and uh forested Wetlands kind of a area in the back here and um the boundary of the Wetland was delineated um in October of this year um the Wetland consists of uh there's some Cattail out here sge um Golden Rod uh slippery El red maple um so the proposed project entails um or um installing an above ground swimming pool kind of in the location of where the ship is so the shed's going to have to be moved um adjoining this above ground pool is going to be a a de like a raised deck and um ordinarily this work would um be considered an exempt activity under both the local bylaw as well as the state Wetlands protection act for uh work in buffer zone um both the moving of the shed and the um pool the swimming pool and the deck however um that's only if it was outside of 50 ft and uh the proposed um deck off of the pool is going to be uh slightly within uh the 50ft buffer off offset from the Wetland line and uh this does slightly slope down down gradient um so we are proposing an erosion control barrier right there um so the the shed that is here now they're going to move it across and um put it over I kind of put a white rectangle here put it over on this side um it is going to be very close to um I mean I show it outside of it's it's going to be pretty close to the 25t buffer um so you know I don't know if that's if anybody has ISS ues with that but the shed already exists just moving from one side to the other and um yeah that's it if anybody has any questions all right David uh do you want to give a short summary of your I think you've been out to the yes yes um so as uh Susan uh mentioned that the pool in the deck is almost exempt I mean just a little bit of the deck um encroaches into the the 50-ft buffer zone uh you know and uh there there will be a little bit of digging to make the ground level but there is there is erosion control that's being installed um the uh so so I think actually the the main component of concern here is is the relocation of the shed um that's actually going to be rather closer to the wetlands um although um it is it will be put uh on existing lawn there's not going to be any trees or really much vegetation at all uh that will need to come down for that plus there's there's not going to be any uh excavation um I guess it's going to be on cinder blocks or or you know wood wood planks or what whatever um I I think um the the the two main concerns there and one really isn't that serious is is the runoff from the roof of the shed if that could if there could be some Crush stone that would be placed down first that the shed could um uh sit on that that then would extend farther out than the uh the the drip line of the roof I think that can certainly uh handle it and then I think just the other the other concern is what's being stored um in the shed so I think there should be a conditioned that you know no hazardous or toxic chemicals should be stored uh in the shed now you know a lawn mower with a little gas tank you know um I don't know maybe that would be okay okay all right John you want to start I don't have any problem with this how big's the shed 10 x 12 it's small if they make a stone pad and set it on Center blocks I think that's going to be fine for the runoff you know what I mean it's existing lawn as you said right yeah yeah yeah I mean I don't really see a problem with this okay Bill I'm I'm fine with this Mark I just uh I have a little concern about when you're flushing the pool is it going to be a salt pool or freshwater pool fresh water it was said freshwater oh it was okay uh just make sure to discharge out towards BR Street I guess if you can do it that way I know you can't blow it on on the on the hot top but I don't want to see a lot of it washed back into the Wetland area that's a good point I mean chances are they're not going to drain it um I don't know that you have to drain it every season just lower it I think you have to get it below lower well there's some standard information that the commission hands out for pools yeah okay that that deals with that what what is the uh the grade difference from one end of the pool to the other because I know you got to get a level you said there is some grade to the property is it you're going to cut into the hill a foot I just want to make sure might probably not a foot but there might be a slight um leveling that will be needed just to to get it I mean it could be a foot but I I kind of doubt it it's it's not that slop so and that that green line represents just the erosion control barrier okay that's fine I'm good okay Chris I'm good Peter I'm good all right I'm I'm good I think uh as long as uh we have agreement that uh the the shed's going to be sitting on some kind of cinder blocks it's not there's no real disturbance uh from that in stone out to the stone on the drip on the drip line um other than that I'm yeah I'm no and no storage of like cans no no storage yeah no storage of of hazardous chemicals in the ship is that reasonable sounds reasonable we're getting nods yes okay all right I'll take a motion to approve close the hearing first uh yes uh public hearing yes so are there any uh any neighbors or any abutters or anybody that wants to speak to this uh as a public hearing it's open to the public nobody's getting up okay I move Mr chairman that we close the public hearing motion from Chris to close the public hearing second from John any all in favor I I okay motion the meeting the hearing is closed I make a motion that we approve this project uh with a neg3 determination uh we need a special condition that there be no hazardous or toxic materials uh stored in the shed is there anything else we need the stone pad Stone we have a stone pad erosion control the drip line that's all otherwise just standard standard conditions and then standard conditions in the erosion control I think it's on the plan but we want to make sure which is a standard condition and share the pool uh Conservation Commission pool uh guideline the standard yeah the standard conservation that's David's condition yeah standard guest conditions yes okay second second okay motion from Chris second from Bill any further discussion all in favor I I None opposed motion passes you're you're good to go Susan uh you're good to go applicant yep thanks very much uh we are uh closed on that one good is is Adam Adam here Adam is here in the back yep okay I'll let you know when the paperwork's ready to pick up Adam thank you appreciate it thanks thank you Susan next one okay all right next up we have notice of intent uh chelsford water district multiple addresses uh this is a continuation from October 22nd and um we are make a note Mr Gibbs is recusing himself from this discussion too far and um we are joined by Mr Sadowski sure Brian Sadowski project engineer aeom I'm joined with Jillian Flanigan environmental scientist we are here speaking on behalf of ch water district last time we talked about our notice of intent for the transmission main water main Improvement portion of the project as part of the Chums water district uh Grand strategy for removal of past from drinking water so I believe last time we were keeping it open for comments and I think that's that's where we are now so yes that is correct I um I I wanted to ask the DPW for any you know uh comments or concerns they had and whether they had a request for any um special conditions um did not hear from them so I guess the answer is no they are not particularly concerned um I I did just have one more question for for you though um so so does this project require a Swip you know under nities you know a Construction general permit you know so but I can get back to okay and you know the it and it may and it may require a land disturbance permit from DPW uh as well which is kind of related um but that and that that kind of relates to the next thing I'm going to say is so um I I think this this project can be approved with standard conditions the only the only special condition I would put in there and and and I will verify with DPW the they're agreeable to it but I don't see why they wouldn't be just have a pre-construction meeting with them absolutely and then we can we can review these sorts of other requirements if any that there are I mean I think there'll probably be a trench permit that they'll something like that so um basic basically the meeting would be with you yes yeah and and the DPW and con okay I mean I I would expect that was going to be happening anyway but I I will just you know verify with with Christine and Tony that they're okay with that condition and I don't see why they wouldn't be so why don't we start with questions um Peter you want to start well I was just going to comment the land disturbance permit as we know is under the town storm water program and you can find the you'll find the RS online yep if if it's needed well yeah it'll tell you Peter do you have any other question questions though thank you Chris anything no I'm ready to approve I'm good I'm good I'm good okay all right I'm I'm good to so Mark recused himself um that's right so um we are any any comments from the public um this is a public hearing so we have anyone in the in the room that or online that wants to uh comment on this project I don't see anything all right so I'll take a motion to close the hearing I move to close the hearing motion from Chris second second from Peter all in favor I I None opposed I move Mr chairman to uh approve the uh project to issue our standard order of conditions but we have a special condition that we have a preconstruction meeting that includes our DPW representative as well as our conservation agent so move from Chris any second second second from Bill any further discussion no no discussion all in favor I I I motion passes unanimous thank you very much appreciate it thank you very much so Jillian can let you know when it's ready to pick up and just a reminder that I need that check oh maybe they're going to need them thank you do you want these back okay you guys want oh they don't they don't want them back no you want to take these I I'll I'll get rid okay you're going to need them all right next up let you know keep them the right way next up the uh you can use them for for trench uh next up notice of intent this is continued from October 88th this is uh see Kathy rberg is the applicant for payot drive and um we are back in session on this and uh this has to do with uh the that's right this was the parking area uh and the the turnaround so just as a prenote um we had asked at our last meeting that this was discussed I I I don't remember exactly which meeting this was but we we asked for both the DPW and the fire chief to attend and they both declined to attend um so um Dave do you had any did you have any comment on that on I think you talked to them both on that and they they didn't give a no they just said you can let the commission know that we have declined here so um that's where we're at um uh I do know that uh DPW you did review the original submission but there's a a resubmission is that right and they're still reviewing that well uh let me see there's a there's a meeting there's an email from Sheila that I just haven't had a chance and then in case that you replied let me see what so she so so she has an emailed to Casey apologies that I was not able to fully complete a letter in time for tonight's Conservation Commission heing I need a minimum of one week for a thorough review and I did not have that based on when this was submitted aded but I thought I let her know that we understood that and the hearing would be continued anyway um yeah I just responded and said totally understood not a problem okay so maybe Casey you can just you know summarize the changes that have been made so I kind of would like to start off with sorry can you give me your name yeah Casey Ferrer howon Hudson thanks I kind of would like to start off with you know planning board had a lot of the same questions that this this commission had um which was why now and you know why are we forcing this now what's the big issue here um and that kind of led us one of their other recommendations was can you try and find a way to acquire a piece of it to continue to use it um so that led us down a path of trying to find those answers um the answer that we got on why now was that there was a couple complaints called in uh wouldn't tell me who obviously um but uh and additionally there was some kind of response that was required at the culdesac and the fire apparatus couldn't pull around the vehicles um so combined with the complaints and the fire apparatus they uh determine that the cease and assist was warranted um and going down the path of acquiring the property um yes it's a possibility um but no I'm sorry just clarify acquiring acquiring the cold pieces of the CLD theack that we would need to maintain the existing parking got it um yes it's a possibility um but it's not there's no assurances with following that path so you know it would be at our own risk to um devote that money to to following that path and then to ultimately either be denied by the select board divided by uh denied by town meeting um so really I just don't think it's in the best interest of my clients to to kind of venture down that path without any assurances especially on a project where you know money is an issue and it's it's you know it's not economically viable um so with that uh I will move on to the changes that we made so hearing the comments from the last meeting um one of the things that we did was we included the runoff from the the Tings Boro parcel uh things were a road parcel I believe it's 112 uh that runs directly towards the back of P of our four payot Drive property what sheet is that do you know if you go to the grading and drainage sheet I can point it out see here sorry it's 106 so the 106 te grow Road Pro uh teow Drive property sheet flows basically you can't see it because there's no actual survey for it but we use GIS and and kind of mass uh state of Massachusetts resources to um and visual like we went out there um to to know that it all sheet flows this way this area at the back of the parking lots an existing rip WP kind of detention pond um but it's evident that it does she flow into that riet pond and then if that ripat pond were to overflow um it would go towards uh kind of the Southeastern corner of our property um so in in response to some of the comments that we received we did include that we don't have a way to um gather how much infiltration they're getting out of that pond so conservatively we just assume that it doesn't infiltrate anything there and it just she flows onto our property um additionally another one of the comments that we had was around the burm of the pond um there was questions on whether or not the pavement from castores would drain directly into the pond whether or not there was going to be a burm or something to prevent that flow from that in from that impervious into the pond so we expanded the pond over in that area we're going to work with Castor to remove a portion of that existing pavement that's within the buffer zone and use that to establish a BM around the outside of the pond um and that's that's really just to um really signify that none of that impervious is going to go into our pond untreated it's going to maintain the current drainage path that it takes which is from the pavement down and it kind of swails next to where the pond is but it's going to hit that burm and then go directly in to maintain its drainage path um and then lastly um one of the the items that I wasn't totally satisfied with was we had a reduction in uh flow and volume for all storm events except the 100-year storm event uh where we had a small very minimal increase in the the flow um so in reworking that burm we were able to um get all flow and all volumes uh lower in the post-development than the predevelopment so there's no longer any exceptions it is meeting in all storm events and we oh another big one that actually we did do here um we added an outlet device to the pond that's going to direct it more closer to the Wetland um this may not be in the best interest or what values the Conservation Commission sees but it was a very big concern that we heard from all of the abuts on dunshire Drive was that we were directing the storm water directly at the drainage ditch in a point source um which they felt was going to then inundate the ditch and then cause more flooding back onto dunshire drive there is still going to be overflow that goes to the ditch but we've added an additional um outflow that kind of directs it away from the drainage ditch to split the the outflow that way it's not all directed at one place or the other we're allowing it to kind of spread over two different areas um so that nobody feels inundated by excess flow and I believe with that that covers the changes that we made David did you have any more comment um just just a question actually so so Casey what what you just said so is that an outlet control structure there it is an outlet control structure so so how does that function how is that accomplishing the purpose so what we've essentially done is we've added a it's going to be either a pre-cast concrete structure it might end up being plastic depends on who can provide what and what the the estimated cost will be with construction um but it'll have an orifice in it so basically an opening so as the pond fills up it'll eventually hit the orifice of that uh structure that orifice will lead it to a pipe that pipe will discharge that's not going to take the entirety of flow coming out of the pond so the pond will continue to stage and at some point the pond will stage over the the Weir where it was previously proposed to outflow from so it's going to use both of them it's just going to use the smaller one first and then use the Weir that goes to the okay thank you sure that's all I had okay um so if I understand the status though David we're still waiting for dpw's comments on this on the revisions yes so we'll have to continue matter what based on that yes okay and just as a note there I did talk to Sheila this afternoon um she did say that she wanted to discuss a question or two that she had um but overall there was no glaring concerns that she had and her letter once received will reflect that okay so does anyone in the commission have any questions or comments John do you have anything you want to ask any any further no I I said my Fe when we first started that this is a forced build so they've done a tremendous job what they got to work with so if they can't use the cuac they have to park somewhere so it's it's a force build you know that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it yep okay all right thanks pH uh not right now Mark I still have concerns with that pond you're cutting down a number of trees that were existing there now part of it was used for blind so the houses wouldn't see it as much from the buildings that are on Kingsboro Road they're going to be gone there's no other way there's no way to replicate that is there planning trees somewhere someplace else to so one thing that we're discussing with the applicant at this time and it kind of wraps into a plenty board concern which would be the parking um and we can't commit to anything at this time um but the potential for planting arbores along this strip of of pavement here of the parking lot here um we can't commit to it yet because we don't know what the cost will be what the cost effect will be um but there is also an existing fence line still to continue to screen um the fence was in order to be replaced this year but assuming the costs that are incoming the fence replacement has been put off but it will be done at some point Point um so for now we're maintaining that we're going to keep the fence eventually it will be upgraded but there is a potential for us to to add plantings it would be approximately 16 to 20 plantings along um that strip but we just cannot commit to that at this time the the other one of the other questions was concerns I guess more is Public Safety when that it's it's not it's not our jurisdiction I get that but when the cars come up from the circle going to the back had there there's a doorway right reaching there com right out to that driveway it's tucked in you're talking about these pads right in here yeah yeah I mean there are are doors they're not right into the the driveway there's a concrete pad that's not it's not like they're going to be stepping out of the door and down into the driveway for adults yes you know the kids be different not not your not our jurisdiction just bringing it up I'm still the way it is now I'm not really f with this plan I know you guys worked on it but I'm just not a big fan of it okay Chris mean my comments are I mean it's a tough site it's a tough site and and it's it's tough it's tough to make the changes and I I think these guys are are doing the best with with the the task of trying to get add the parking on the site but it's a tough site I and it's a conservation agent I'm con concerned about the loss of you know the loss of the trees right and the loss of the vegetation the loss of the lawn and it's a trade-off I mean parking versus lawn trees but that's kind of where I'm at right now Peter um Can somebody refresh my memory how far is this from deepbrook the property Casey it runs through so some of this project is within the 200t riverfront I don't believe that's an intermittent stream at that point no it's Brook deep Brook the wetlands meet the edge of your four pay property is because we're at 19 and we meet pay property on the back Edge and that corner Edge and that's where deep Brook runs through conservation that's what the gis is showing me I'll I'll I'll bring that up to the edge of this property is brck the runs through it def definitely in the flood plane but I don't think it's in the two through that flood plane well let me let me jump ahead because that's a that's really the preface of my one question um David as I understand our RS uh development within the 200t riverfront it requires an Alternatives analysis that is and I haven't seen one and I feel I feel like you do Mark and some of the others you know those trees are pretty important for a lot of reasons yes but deep Brook is touching the edge of the property not the edge of the construction yeah that's my question but the construction Casey I'm looking at your drawings and and I'm having trouble seeing what I want to see so where where exactly is the Basin on that drawing right here no the parking the parking is in the hatched area the the correct and then deep Brook is down here right right but the infiltration Basin is right where the parcel number is is right here about yeah that small yeah so this is the 200t riverfront area right here so we're all outside the 200 foot so the property is on it but not this part of the project David correct and so the rags don't apply the 200t doesn't apply correct okay then I'll just the only other comment Carl is kind of the same comment um I read the letters that uh your client was written given by the state or they were read to me um and I thought what the letter said was you can park there for a while but not in the winter the letter said get it figured out and you can park there for now close enough so what I'm getting at is you briefly mentioned an alternative which would be some arrangement with the town to own the land and I understand the uncertainty part that you described trying to put myself in the position of the condo owners I probably wouldn't like that uncertainty either but we're here to try to find those compromises between conservation and and and living here in this town so I would just add Echo Mark's point is I would like to hear a little bit more from somebody about the real challenge in working with the town and at this point to there's always going to be an in if and and an end um there's always going to be some other project that could be done um but this isn't a development that's backed by money and funds that can go down uncertain paths I can't in the conscience of you know my lenser say let's let's go down this path and see if we can find a better project because yeah yeah I don't think that's available yeah yeah and what what I'm suggesting here is above my and your pay grade I don't even know how to make something like that happen but it is a question that we're all asking or some of us are asking is there a better way and I don't I don't think that there is a feasible way to get there that's based on conversations with the Town based on conversations with Tony Town engineer Josh Abbott fire preservation officer uh they had conversations with Paul con Christine Clancy doesn't appear that there is a viable path to get there and that's you know I basically I took that path and I I said we can't continue that path that's all I have Carl thank you I have just one more question yep so um so Casey what is the sweep path plan that was requested as part of the planning board to see how the fire truck Maneuvers in and out okay that's all thank you y so um this is a public hearing and I know we have some uh some of the neighbors here um some of the interested parties so I'd like to give them a chance to get up and um I I guess I'm I'm going to ask that uh we don't just repeat what was said at previous meetings because we've heard that already um but uh I know we had some really good commentary the last time so uh we're uh we're open to any kind of comments if you want to come up and address US hello Amia kuto Starkweather 19 D drive and I have direct conservation concerns so um the for pet property um its Edge is deep Brook its drain its drainage of that pond and much of its property is the mitigation ditch that intermittent stream that then goes to the wetlands and I have a lot of concerns because the only pollutants they're accounting for are total suspended solids and phosphorus despite the fact that we live in New England is it not going to be salted how will they keep the salt out of there um what other things asphalt leeches all sorts of chemicals there's existing pavement but they're adding a lot more and that will end up in the water and the groundwater which will end up in the wetlands um we are actually like less than a mile from a natural heritage designation Stone on the marac so our animals using this pathway of up deep Brook down deep Brook their Swain park has a Conservation Area deep Brook has a conservation area just Upstream they AB but Frank B Brock's Conservation Area so like is there been any study to say that there aren't animals that are protected under Massachusetts Endangered Species Act that are using this area and are they going to be poisoning them are they going to be destroying their homes they're ripping up trees they're adding pollutants um I spoke with my friend who was studying for an ANM to be an entomologist and well he doesn't live in this area he's looked at some of the research about parking lot discharge and he was finding one that uh larval dragon flies are being poisoned by road salt and that just low-level exposure decreases their immune response and they may not successfully grow to be adult dragon flies that asphalt has 50 plus known pollutants that even if they meet human safety standards they um still May poison aquatic wildlife and so I have a lot of concerns these pollutions are not mitigated and we dragonflies eat so many mosquitoes all these things where it's like are these accounted for will these changes cause Devastation on the area of it's not their property but it's right next to it and we're all deeply interconnected with the water that we share on these properties and how will that be handled okay thank you thank you very much thank you anyone else James star weather 19 dunshire drive my only concern is that this is not solving the problem 14 spaces is not going to get the cars off pet drive payot drive excuse me and you already brought up the risk it's not your concern but it's valid point and I'll bring it up tomorrow night with the safety of that driveway the blind spots and um and I absolutely and I'm on board for going down the road of deeding the the C to saac to the land the land lady and that's all I have to say because uh taking down the 20 trees or 10 trees or how many trees we're way too close to a heritage site to take the risk in my opinion thank you appreciate it thank you thank you very much you you got almost the whole family the other ones in Vermont so you won't hear from her today um Michelle Caputo Stark weather 19 donshire drive so I actually have a couple questions the first is actually about the um the modified project plan that we received put this down before I drop it on the floor um I received this and I was kind of a little confused so um on the pre- and post ground covers all nodes and you can break it down in whatever way you want it break it down but I looked at it and I said okay on page five of the pre which when you go into the printing if you want to look at it it's page number 34 it says there's 64,8 33 Square ft um and that would be including the abutters and it is broken down into grass paved parking roofs and woods when I look at the post same exact footprint that's page number five on post page printing page number 51 in case anyone wants to look at it in the supplemental data 64433 Square ft same square footage grass paved parking roofs and woods where's the Pond Grass the pond is not grass p is the pond is not grass the conversation that we had previously look sorry carot Casey you can the conversation previously had was that water is an impervious surface as soon as there is water in that pond it is an impervious surface it continues to get deeper and deeper and deeper it is not grass it is and I we keep being told oh there's you didn't lose that much grass we did lose grass the actual grass cover is not grass it's actually a pond so we shouldn't be whether you want to call it as grass in the description on how you're calling it I don't think it's grass anyways but okay I guess we get the magic of hydrology and engineering and hydrocad so that's fine but you can't keep saying you still have grass when it's not grass when you're describing the what does it look like when you're done oh you got a whole lot of grass no you don't okay the second one is um I do actually have copies of those letters and I'm going to put my glasses on because reading small print doesn't work so the letter that was sent on November 23rd it specifically says parking can be accommodated around the culdesac or in areas of on street parking there's no no any kind of anything for the October 24th meeting from the Department of Public Works the direction that was given to the four pet drive and remains is that there is no parking that is allowed in the cuis act that limits emergency vehicle access that is all the Restriction is there is no restriction that says they cannot park on the sides of the road and I did confirm that with the conversation I had with your very lovely cons uh engineer from the DPW uh Tony Ruchi he was very very helpful in explaining a whole lot of things I also wanted to point out that your chapter 195 zoning says in 19516 off street parking to be provided Common parking areas a at the end of it says exist existing building and uses need not comply unless expanded or otherwise changed to increase their parking needs so there is no need for a parking lot there is no need to build one and dig up our woods and everything else they have been told they can park on the street except I guess during snow and apparently we have a lot of property lines that don't match to where people are building the if you're looking at castor's the leftand side there's a whole section that belongs to the Frank Brocks area that isn't cast story's parking lot it's actually Frank Brock's which I guess is the town so again we could have some more parking over there that's not cast stories um and when I went into because I was like you know I think they just put like lines on the side of the road and as long as you're inside those lines you're allowed to park if the town came in and just you know like I went into final Square in front of zesties there's a section where it's lined by the DPW or somebody and there's signs up that say 30 minute parking there's other places in town where it says no parking on street during snow emergencies no parking I don't even know when sanding uh not sanding the the street sweeping I'm sure there's somewhere in there something like that but all they need to do is Mark off the edge of the road where they're allowed to park and where they're not allowed to park X off the fire Lanes X off whatever they want and there's no reason that they can't park on that again this is a conservation meeting so the parking I think is a good conversation for tomorrow night okay okay but it is related to we're being told there is no alternative there is only this we hear you and we're saying there are alternatives thank you thank you very much hey Sera Fernandez dunshire drive I'm going to try to keep my comments kind of truncated I'm going to follow up with an email because I do have a few more concerns after hearing what Casey said today um I do appreciate you know you guys listening I appreciate the extra work that you've done because there's definitely been some changes but I still have some questions one of them is I keep on hearing money being an issue if they can't maintain the fence today that's supposed to keep trash out of that intermittent stream that you call it which ends up in the wetlands of the trash that flows today how are they going to maintain the pond and keep that to what it's supposed to be because there's going to be a cost associated with that the person that maintains the property today they have a company that comes in and does it and the person that's doing the maintaining of the lawn is one person um he's there all the time he takes care of that property and the condo property so that's a concern I'd like to understand if they can't replace the fence which is falling apart and been disrepair for a long time there's other parts of the property that seems to not be maintained properly how are they going to maintain this Pond um the other thing is they're removing a portion of the pavement appreciate that but why can't they remove that entirety of the portion of pavement that c stories is entered into the area the pavement should not be there that would both open up more green space right that would open up area and make it so the water's flowing into that direction where it should so why not open up that fully and work with them and it's still not clear if that's actually going to happen because I think the statement in the drawing says try to work with them so you know that would be something that can we get it in writing that's actually going to be removed and also I didn't see any burn plan on there um what does that look like as well um I did see the outlet and I do like I said I appreciate that following more of the diagonal line headed towards you know the area of flow which is better I don't understand why the rip wrap area which is up there cannot be moved in the same direction so the Overflow also is going there um one thing I noticed in your plan with that portion that you're looking to add which like I said I'll follow up with an email but the bottom of the retention Pond is at 99.5 ft I didn't see how much bigger that footprint was getting by adding that section that's pavement because if you look in the drawing in the corner can I go up there for a moment just a point yep yeah so it lookss like the area that they're getting from the restaurant is this section right here and you can see that's all the angle in the lower portion of the retention Pond which is here is at 99.5 this is just a steeper incline in and it's hard to see where that's going to hold additional water and if you go to the very last page of the plot plan they did a good view of the um side view of what the Pond's going to look like and you can see the orus opening there is actually going to be lower than the intended earlier overflow it's at the very bottom of the page they show like the cross view um and the thing just to note about this one understand that that drawing is actually turned so if you're looking at the drawing successively that drawing is actually turned so it looks like the Outlet's going to the right but it's not so right now you have the Overflow of the wear is at 100.7 right which is what they have this is showing obviously a cross view um the area that they added for that over here where is it 100.2 this isn't going to hold any water so even though they expanded the retention Pond I'm not clear on how much more water that you are holding by having this because the orice is lower so water is going to be flowing out at an earlier point so it's not holding as much water as it was originally intended to by the design is there any way to make this like steeper like what's the reason why like your Edge where it's 102 why this can't be made deeper to actually maintain more at the 99.5 when you're breaking it out and like I said that pavement area extend it a little bit more into there get rid of the pavement and get more impervia like more impious surface to have more water being absorbed to the area that you're living just an alternative thought um a couple of us have tried arbites in that area massive fails all the time um because the area is so wet um you can see I at one point I did that in the back of my my yard trying to make it a block I think I'm down to six left when I originally planted them I had 20 something the neighbor next to me to the left at I forget his AG 29 I foret which way it goes but he's had fails as well um they also don't seem to do much for the Wildlife like it's not something I mean they might get eaten by the deer but it so I'm curious as well if there's any other type of vegetation that could be planted in the area for wildlife to both have hi spots you know is there anything else that you can do to help that and maybe by reclaiming a portion of that pavement area you could do something like that that you didn't have the option before so so you know I know this is a hard thing um the only other comment and I'll bring this up tomorrow um that parking which we'll bring back and just a quick comment on that one of the letters stated parallel parking they have never parked parallel on that area and I don't know if you actually could fit enough cars there if you parked parallel along the edge they currently Park perpendicular and if you look at the bylaws which you brought up according to parking um it should be parallel to the roadway is Edge unless it's actually been like approved to be perpendicular so it's just just something that's there so like I said I'll follow up with an email with some more information um because I did see some of the changes and I want to read through the documents a little bit more thoroughly but those are my ones right now thank you very much thanks for your comments appreciate it anyone else yep we get this perhaps I try to work with what you have okay John Kelly 38 dunshire Drive um spoke earlier about the Fallen Timber and he said it was conservation and I'm trying to stay with conservation it's concerned with not removing anything what about adding thing to can we dump things in can we add things to conservation because my question is that this renion pond is all this we're taking absorbing soil and we're adding a lot of asphalt to it this retention Pond if you look at that drawing I have this area right here on on that print there we'll say this is the proposed salt storage um snow removal storage facility that takes up apparently less than two pockets spaces I don't know why anybody would park would pile snow up against a building I then it's a safety concern but anybody knows anything about snow plowing you can't start the truck doesn't magically end up with the other R and push things that way it's all going to end up being pushed towards every tension Pond towards the fence at the um on D drive and as she mentioned earlier and did a wonderful job about salt and pollutants you were just concerned about a 12T shed and not allowed to store gas has it material we're done about talking about thousands of square feet of parking where it's got oil transmission fluid gas brake fluid everything salt being stored directly thrown into a water supply right so when you want to talk about conservation strictly speaking you've just done you just talked about a 12T roof and you wanted a boundary around it now we're putting thousands of square feet of asphalt has this material beyond belief and yet we're going to throw directly into a water directly into a water system um there's no buffer zone and the last point I want to make about that is no matter how you look at it there's a water problem already there that we can't control it's any water we add to it is only going to make it worse these are recent pictures okay this occurs weekly no see monthly that's a 3A Co right that's this year and we will promise a 100 years storm to prevent that dunshire drive deep Brook can't handle the water it has now perfect example of this we have not had water we have not had rain for over two months now and yet deep Brook is flowing and backing up we shouldn't we should have no water whatsoever but we've allowed the asphalt plant all these other developments on dun road all the way into TB to let more and more water come deep Brook runs all the way up to tsoro we've all allowed all that water to come down onto our land and then no one's done anything else to open up Downstream right you're contaminated flooding Wetlands period and and you finally you were saying that there was um an issue where it's a forced issue it hasn't been forced in 60 years the fact that the fire department is not here or anybody from safety has any concerned about it apparently doesn't mean to make a big difference to anybody right but if you look at this one picture right here all right that's my garage sandbagged underwater this happens all the time anything you do to add water and you talk about you're doing the best you can but when you add a RI a brim to divert water elsewhere it's not being absorbed that brim is now causing a high velocity flow to be directed somewhere else it's not being absorbed it's being flown at a high rate it's being redirected you haven't secured anything you've just made an erosion fun is anybody any rebuttal questions they want to ask me we we're going to let we're going to let Casey respond to all of the questions can I make a comment sure just uh you're right but keep in mind this commission has a very uh strict Playbook called the town bylaw and the state Wetland protection act so a lot of the stuff you mentioned are real environmental concerns but we don't always have the tools in the regulations to deal with things like you know pavement impacts on dragonflies so anyone that's interested in that come talk to us after the meeting because there's no lot lots of things that could be done but we are limited by by our our rules you're doing a great deal of you're changing a great deal of the environment in deep Brook this isn't some little dragon flly then this is changing everything the fish the turtles everything that's in there and the M fact that you're flooding people's properties Beyond consumption beyond my belief so this is not a simple thing of dragonflies or Guppies or turtles or free fls there's a lot of craters a lot of animals a lot oh it's all it's all connected you're right it's all connected thank you thank you very much yep thanks uh any anyone else okay why don't you take a stab at some of the responses so I covered this thought pretty extensively at the last meeting but I'll reiterate it again um this project results in a net reduction in volume and flow that goes out to both the mitigation ditch the Wetland um I don't know I understand that there's flooding issues I understand that there's a covert that the State has yet to take care of um flooding is a result of an increase in volume um we've shown through all drainage analysis through the last drange analysis for last plan the dra analysis for this plan it's been peer reviewed by other Engineers there is a reduction in volume so reduction in volume is going to result in a net loss of water going towards the resource area towards the Zone that's flooding um I I don't know uh I I can't lean on that any more than I am now there's a net reduction in volume going towards that we have very strict performance criteria that we have to meet anytime that we want to do any sort of development within the resource or within buffer zones of the resource areas um again pavement is allowed in the town of chelsford outside of the 30 foot buffer zone okay uh we're not asking for any waiver or reduction in the setback from the Wetland uh for the pavement the state gives us very clear guidance on how to treat storm water runoff from pavement the town gives us even more Crystal Clear guidance on how to treat uh runoff from pavement we're meeting all of those for all the new pavement that we have the only pavement that we are not meing treatment for is the existing runoff that goes towards payot yes we're going to repave it but it's a overall reduction in impervious surface that is not being treated that's running towards payot Drive um so I understand that there's concerns with um species with chemicals with runoff contaminants there is performance criteria that we have to meet as designers as Engineers that we have to meet when we present projects to the commission to the state and we meet those we've shown that we meet those to the maximum extent practicable that we can given the situation that we have all of the new Pavement in the rear everything that we are draining everything that we are are taking in and treating is met to all the standards the only thing that is not met to standard is what we cannot capture that's running as it currently does and we're reducing the amount that it is um another thing I'll bring up again I I I spoke with Tony Ruchi on the phone I asked him if he was coming to this meeting he said he was not said he had no interest he said you know I I can't make him come here I can't make the fire prevention officer come here to to state why why they're making us to do this yes you can park on the side of any public roadway but you cannot use that as your only source of parking at least based on what I was dictated from the town engineer that's coming down from the DPW director from other um safety officers in town if they're going to let us Park we're going to do that there would be no reason for us to pursue this further if there was an alternative option that didn't require us to build this we don't want to do this um this is something something that we are being told that we have to get done we have to find a way to park our vehicles and it cannot be within the right of way it cannot be within the kisac we can park for now around the kisac to the best of our ability and stay out of the way of safety but it cannot be the the solution that we that we move forward with um as was stated before you can parallel park that's not going to get us all the spaces that we need and we're going to again be in the way of Fire Equipment um as far as cast stories pavement I know that my client is very interested in removing the cast stories pavement um but castor's paved it I don't know how long it's been there they may have legal right for it now that it's been there for a certain amount of time she is exploring that endeavor but we cannot promise that it's going to be removed at this time so that's why she would like it to be removed she doesn't want it there um but we do not know at this time if we are actually able to just go there and remove it um um the burm area for the pond that we increased the burm is just a contour um can you slide to the right here the BM is this Contour so originally this 102 Contour stopped we've extended it all the way down so that 102 Contour up against this other existing one two Contour is what creates the BM to prevent any water from flowing further um and the additional the additional uh the the pond itself we're not going to expand it any further even if we do remove pavement right now as proposed it meets all the requirements that it needs to meet there's no reason to make it any bigger it has less flow less volume there's you don't want to there's a balancing act that we have to do when we talk about conservation we can't just starve the wetlands either we can't take all the water from it we can't say that before it's getting a th000 cubic feet and now it's getting zero hey we're better because it's less well now we're starving the wetlands of water so we have have to have a balancing act of okay what we have now what's going to make it better what do we need to meet all of the requirements that's not the only requirement in pred toost there's also recharge requirements phospherous requirements that all play a factor in how much um volume we hold and how much we keep within that pond once all those are met we're not going to go any further there's no reason for us to expand it any further um the pond is vegetated or will become vegetated the pond will be grass um yes it's it will have water but in most scenarios it's going to be just grass the reason that we don't consider it as an impervious service when doing this is it's not hydric the the underlying soil once it becomes um once it becomes inundated with water will still accept water so yes there will be a surface of water but it's still accepting water once the intermittent stream becomes inundated with water it's not going to accept any water because that is the groundwater table so that's the difference between why we consider the intermittent stream as an impervious surface as it flows versus the pond the pond is considered grass for all intents and purposes as part of the drain drainage analysis um the question on Arbor VY again that is a that's a work in progress we're trying to figure out what we need to do there what we can do there and what we can afford to do there um pond maintenance it's going to be a requirement whether you know my client can figure out they have to figure out how to afford that that's going to be a requirement it's going to be part of the condition the order of conditions it's going to have to be um submitted to DPW to conservation on a yearly basis that's the only way you know that's the only way that I can promise you that the pond is going to be maintained because it's overseen now much more than it has been in the past but every every project that I bought brought before this commission it's a it's on the order of conditions that all maintenance receipts have to be submitted um as far as my list goes that's what I wrote down but if there's any outstanding questions that the commission has I'm Happ to answer them no I think we're good um so we're going to be continuing this to a future meeting I presume the next meeting which is November 20 something 26 yeah so we'll be continuing to then I know there's also a planning board meeting tomorrow night where I'm sure some of these topics will come up again um so I know that the public still has uh some questions um based on both your responses and and all all the things going on so there's still more time for for for that kind of participation I'd like to move us along though um I think is there any more do you have a specific question say specific for next conversation have they done any study on the flow rate of the so-called temporary stream the call or not do they know whether whether it actually flows uphill or not it flows to do a deep grow will the water remain in up back got FL so it's a state isue FL test but do we flow test the brook capability to get to get to the so we can capture let's let's yeah so do you have a quick answer Casey or um all I can tell you is that I've been told repeatedly that the flow issues are stemming from a state covert issue I don't have any flow tests um I don't need to provide any because I'm providing less volume to that ditch and that water source okay so in doing so so maybe we should look into that you can see yeah okay can you come up can you come up please really should have you come up um this is just a question I guess for sth Fernandez dunshire drive for Casey I think there's there was a survey done in the easement where that line is with the vegetation the numbers somebody had gotten elevation markers is that possible to get what the elevations are of that run cuz that right now is where the water is flowing and to his question of is it going uphill or not in that specific area is there a list somewhere we can go Casey can you come up to this one I'm sorry I'm just asking for clarification on her I'll show here um I think it was in where you have these numbers like the Seven 8 n wasn't there a study right was there an elevation survey done here I think or the has Tony done one because there's something where cuz we were talking about flow here being pretty flat after the recent when they did some clean up back there somebody has some numbers here is there possible to get what those numbers are to see what what the flow is in this area the state has them on a mass mapper I look at them I think Tony took some I I don't Tony is not I'm not part of answer right just to answer the question though that he has about flow because they're adding flow from the rip wrap everyone's talking about the flow coming in coming to the backyards here we're talking about flow not going down this line somebody has these these markers CU they were recent they were after they did the cleanup in I it was 2023 so there was talk about this being flat a lot of the water coming now not going out where it's supposed to be so I mean that might answer some people's questions here if we could get it so I guess to that point whether or not the stream is currently flowing left to right or stagnant or whatnot if I'm adding less volume to it it I'm not making any conditions worse um in in any case if I am taking my water and instead of putting it towards the western side of the stream where it's not going to run east well now I'm directly putting it towards that East where it should run anyway so in in that case I'd be making it even better by fast tracking that water to a place where it is going to move along and get out um but as far as um flow studies I know the town is doing some sort of overall storm water and um whatever study for these covers and for the but also what I've talked to 20 about is there's a there's an issue with a state covert he can't do anything about it I can't do anything about it he can't even push the state to do it in his position so I certainly can um so you know as much as I empathize with flood issues on dunshire Drive the only thing I can do is make it so that I'm not making it worse all my hydraulic calculations have shown that I'm not making it worse it's peer reviewed stamped by a professional engineer it's as much as I can do okay I just have one more real be real quick I promise okay all right so again s the Fernandez dunshire drive you're talking about volume and flow I live at the bottom of that Culvert they released the fire hydrant up at the top at extremely high volume flow rate coming down and it caused erosion at the bottom of that portion that was the start of fixing trying to fix some of the water that was going there you're now taking an area that had a wide range of flow a big area right and you had volume of water I get it I understand but it was going over a bigger surface area you're now redirecting that water out a pipe and out an overflow of an area which is again coming to a very narrow portion of an area so your comment about not affecting it it is affecting it by the fact that it's now it went from being spread out to being direct you take a fire hose you shoot it at the ground in one portion coming out hard it's going to cause erosion you spread it out over a bigger area it flows and it doesn't cause that same type of erosion that's our concern so you're saying that you're not affecting us but you're affecting us all right oh well yes and one of the things that we also have to prove as part of our um submissions to both the state and to you is that we are not creating erosion all of these Outlets are fitted with rip wrap which is sized appropriately for the pipe size inflow that's coming out out of it what the rip wrap does is it dis disperses the flow prior to hitting any sedimented soil so that it cannot cause erosion and it will not cause erosion that's the point of the rip wrap overflows and the rip wrap Outlets okay that's it's called a flared end section it flares out over an a I'm going to end it there thank you and I'll take a motion to continue the hearing is this the last one okay all right thought we already had the last one three times sorry so I'm going to do a poting oh sorry Michelle Caputo Stark weather 19 dunshire Drive okay so this new little Outlet here that they're adding that actually goes into one of the other buffer zones they're going to have to dig up into another one of the buffer zones I forget which one it was do you remember which one it was the 25 that's the 25 it goes to the 30 and in over the 25 so they're actually you don't like magically put a CT and a pipe and stuff you have to dig out take up whatever's there put in a pipe and then refill it so I'm curious if like how is that allowed because that's again in another no touching buffer zone I'm a little concerned about that as well thanks all right Mr chairman move we continue the meeting until our next continue the hearing until our next meeting on November 26 202 motion from Chris second second from Bill any further discussion all in favor I I motion is unanimous okay so we will continue to our next meeting thank you all very much for good discussion thank you thank you yep next uh next one thing I I I stressed last time is try to get Rodney Elliott involved in this to get that covet changed over on 3A that's the biggest yeah that's what's killing that area I just submitted um I'm in tou in touch with mass restoration which is in which is do a big project to restore a lot of deep Brook and they've sent Engineers they have the draws I sent them to Anon Anthony and his team this week that's that's a town that's a state-owned road that's a state culet you want to get the state involved in that yeah Town doesn't have like like you said I'm saying we have got the state and also the state's willing to get information on um rent money to have this explored okay and they this we good yeah but having representative Elliot engaged is a good thing thanks Mark okay uh next on our agenda we are at 10 hildr Street um this has uh been asked to be continued I believe uh David to the next to the next meeting that is correct um I'm I'm having a little bit of a concern that uh you and I talked about this that this uh hearing was opened um this application was opened in September of 2023 so we are now into month 14 or 15 for this um I I understand that um you know it's just the nature of this complicated projects and all that but at what point you and I had some conversation at what point do we say um we're not getting the information we need and uh I don't know if you have any comment you want to make on that David um the only comment that uh I really can make is that uh Brian Brian GD the applicant's consultant has assured me that they will have the letter next meeting the letter from uh yes yes so and then when we get that you still we need to review that letter and understand the impact of that yes yes so just to frame this again this was denied by the planning board uh the application I believe but we're still open so I'm just trying to make sure that we get this moving one way or another um we keep continuing it so I'll take a motion to continue the hearing to the next meeting November 26th Move Motion from Bill second second for Mark all in favor I I okay great motion passes that one's that one's hitting uh the the record for um for distance I guess okay uh nothing under discussion nothing under continual business we have Land Management coolest Farms so um updates there the um CR update so nothing particularly new there we are in discussions with uh sub Valley um some back and forth emails and and uh some online calls and whatever so progress is okay on that have they been out there K yeah they've been there um on site um that was actually quite a while ago was a few quite a few weeks ago but uh I think that will um we'll be able to move forward on that um with them they have to get some approvals from their um uh their management their board uh has to give some approval but uh I think we'll we'll be able to do this um we had a um an update we updated uh the Vernal pool buffer zone demarcation um I know there were some events that were being asked to be planned and David had had said to me that he wanted to have that Vernal pool Mark before we had the events approved so we got that done last week and um and then there's some other uh events that were being uh requested for that site and I know John do you want to come up and talk for a minute um uh on this thank you um John Ray 223 pin Hill Road um I got the letter of thanks David I I'm I'm I'm new to this well I'm not new to this I'm I'm familiar with how to do events but I'm new to here in the town doing events so I was a little bit shocked when you said we couldn't do a night walk when you to to our first smle couldn't do a night walk for the scouts and we've been doing night walks with the scouts in this town for 20 years so that was that was all you said David uh we had to stay in the main field or stay in open areas not go into the woods yes why I think it's dangerous or potentially dangerous um I don't know if you've ever been in the woods when it's dark and you hear an animal growl was Lally a large animal um I have and you don't know what might happen not only not only what H might happen with a wild animal it might be someone just doesn't see something um on the ground and trips over it in the dark or maybe what a human does to another human in the dark um that's that's why Reser the the commission's conservation reservations are typically closed after Sunset okay that I didn't understand that from your your response um yes I've been on overnight walks in the military I've been on overnight walks outside of the military um nonetheless the Scouts have a badge for overnight W walks and and and we've been conducting that those walks for 20 years but if the purpose is stargazing why do you need to go into the woods well it was it was stargazing and um overnight uh uh uh uh night walks that's the badge is for a night walk well the only thing the only thing I can say to the members of the commission is and it's ultimately it's your decision is that if by chance something did happen to somebody in the dark where you know some someone was injured or something not good happened there are going to be fingers pointed to this at this commission saying you show you showed poor judgment by allowing People Into the Woods After Dark they're not going to be pointed at you John they're going to be pointed at members of this well I will I will be there David I I don't I put my name on this because I will be there but there will be Stu Scout leaders there and there will be parents there I assume um I mean we're not we would take all the necessary precautions for a night walk um at least today you have those little uh LED um red lights that you can point down because you don't want to destroy your night vision and with night with night vision we're going to be we're not going through the woods we're going on the trail all right I mean I I can't walk through the woods in a lot of cases in the daylight um but it would be on the trail and the trails we've kept them wide and enough to get them their badge well I've expressed my opinion on that issue so I'm a little confused what was who who is your name's on the application but I I believe yeah who who's the party it it it's the Boy Scouts I thought it was nooba oh excuse me excuse me my brain yeah sorry I'm at this hour of night Carl I don't function that well yeah this is noober outdoor club outdoor club okay so so it's not not that it matters that it's but it's a leader that's the same same premise no matter who it is you're going to there would be somebody like myself all right who is familiar with a site and then there would be the leader of theou of the group that comes in and and whether it's Scouts and or Girl Scouts Boy Scouts they would you have one for each each group and and then there would be some uh uh uh parents around okay and and it's controlled very controlled there's no fires there's no nothing how many how many people are we talking total uh you the leaders kids say I'm going to that that I'm um is kind of loose but I'm going to range it somewhere between 10 and 12 okay okay I mean it's we're not putting 50 people out there okay and I would I would be really concerned of doing that and and at what time of night would this be um uh we would be starting at 6:00 and we will probably be done by 7:30 okay you know 7:30 8:00 because the the um the uh attention span is not that long yep okay and so the ask was for stargazing and stargazing and and a night walk I believe David wasn't it I uh yes yeah okay I I didn't I didn't precisely understand so what we've done with this one all right because it's been up in the air we have to give that and it's for two days from now um we've moved it okay but but but um there will be more there's another one um not a night walk but there's a u an observation uh request for an event on December 4th and that would be in the field okay one of the fields that been submitted to David yet not yet I wanted to get through this part okay first I I wanted to understand what I should be how to communicate it all right okay so the the events should be submitted to David that's the procedure we sure sure that's David that's maybe maybe and part of this is me understanding maybe I didn't say it more I could have explained myself a little more when we work together on this you don't need as many words but you know but but the real big thing is we've been doing this for years okay so I didn't I didn't think that was necessary and I didn't want to burden you guys because you guys have got lots in your plate I don't remember seeing any approvals in a while well depends on what parcels it they were done on the it was it was Sunny Sunny Meadows so you wouldn't you wouldn't have seen it but now we're now we're moving over instead of in a in a big Meadow area we have the advantage of of a a wooded walk and and those trails are six feet wide you know recently blown out and the reason we blew them out David and I understand what you're concern might be but um we those trails are just basically um been created and there's still rocks in there that need to be removed and stumps that need to be removed so you you you need to and and there is no has I've been I've not seen any erosion anywhere in the trail there's no rain either so well well in but but in the springtime there was plenty of rain you're right yeah you're exactly right as as you were trying to drill a hole uh into right partial concrete yeah yeah well I I'll just say one more thing quickly on on a recent event um at uh Redwing farm that that I approved where was a professional photographer um and this was during the daytime Y where um some some members of of the public that were participating I guess were being photographed went went on to an abing private property and something was sent to them and they allegedly then made threats in return uh in response to that I mean and that was bad enough during the day you imagine if someone then goes on to an AB buding property at night um now I know I know you you would be assuring saying no we would never let that happen we're supervising but you might not be able to control everything that's in the dark sure sure I understand that so I recently uh have met a person that comes and does Trail camps now that's open that's open they can go anywhere they want to go and cuz we don't have a gate we don't take tickets and he trespassed on unknowing because he's not familiar with the property lines and so I went over to the property owner and apologized and said it wouldn't happen again and that's why my my my way of dealing with that is good neighbors okay okay Peter yeah can I just make a comment to I'll make it quick um in my vision this is exactly what we want to do with our open space use it thank you y and secondly I understand I've been listening carefully isn't it more of a a a liability question don't we need some feedback from town manager or our councel like what is the legal responsibility of the commission to in in the event something inappropriate happens cuz I don't understand that what are we approving it's going to be a problem because we're closed from Dust Till Dawn but that's our policy and we can leave that we can that's where I'm going liability though right but that's that's to David's Point yeah and I think it's a something we need to think about because well you you've somewhat Carl I I I I've looked at the in the guidelines and the the posted guidelines and it talks about entering here is that you do it at your own risk somewhat covered okay okay but we've got enough I mean you're dealing with kids so we've got enough parents or older people they all look young from my age but you know the older people that that have responsibility this this is a unique thing it's a a club where they go out and do this all the time so they they Network and they know how to do this they know how to walk and and uh at night and and uh I I feel very comfortable about this and I've never met the person but I'm familiar with noober and and a bunch of the other activities that they do and they seem to be very well run yeah so I think we need to think about the the liability part and maybe get a little Clarity on that but um then maybe come up with some guidelines because I'd like you know would like these events to go to David and he can handle them he's got clear guidance and he can um everything goes to him so maybe what we should do maybe so that David can review it David can make the decision and if he gets something that's big enough that's like oh there's going to be 100 people coming to wherever it's like well that one we need to talk because that's a big one you know when it's something like this it should be David should be able to make make those decisions so what about the two pending well I I think he just said it's moot now well the one that the one for two nights from now um it might have moved anyhow because it appears I I checked the weather every 4 hours but you know this is New England um and it was going to be cloudy for a Thursday and and who knows I'll I'll tell you better on Sunday what Thursday was um uh but but the the uh the reg reg for using our property is you you do it on your own risk should cover most yeah and and and and that should be included in any dialogue between us and any Le leader so they can communicate to their families right well but that's not really what the regulations say the regulations don't say so we yeah the regulations don't say close from dawn to dusk any use after dusk is that your own risk John John excuse me excuse me we're having the meeting here sorry so uh so we have our regulations we need to review the regulations review what's allowed and we'll we'll do that right now do you have anything open for events you said that one's not going to happen that one's that one's not going to happen in Kess it'll happen in in U Sunny okay Sunny Meadow U but um there isn't a a request for December 4th so it's it's down the road don't don't let it go too far let let's and that's not a night walk that's just in in the field telescopes and yeah okay so nothing nothing major probably not a big deal but you know the the sooner you get it to David the the quicker you can get it David you'll have it tomorrow yeah okay yeah all right anything else no yeah um yes excuse me yeah um I'm confused by no walking on the buffer zone it's a sensitive area for the Vernal pool and you know the this this commission has been very concerned about buffer Z own snal pools you know particular L with applicants and has has wherever possible required applicants to stay out of buffer zones um in in this particular case I think I think you know ultimately yeah there there may at some point be a short Trail in this buffer zone one doesn't know but as as a general rule the the commission wants to leave leave it um as an area an uh an unaccessed area I mean there going to be no formal rules saying that but you know I I think the the ultimate home the ultimate plan is to leave it undisturbed to to let it uh restore uh maybe maybe naturally maybe um maybe um you know uh act actively active restoration so in the mass laws there's none of that in the mass laws that I can find so it's it mentions clearing you can't clear we're not I don't think we're doing or have done anything or plan to do would that would be against any of the mass gu laws guides I mean in uh uh in advice on Wetlands I mean I won't even go in there in most cases because it's tick fil um but car you advise me to it was okay to walk in the Vernal pool um this time of year because it's virtually dry and I I did go in there and walk around I was careful um because I wanted to survey in my own mind um what the uh situation in there is with Bittersweet and metal and trash I'm glad to report there's very little trash in there um there are three barrels that I'm not exactly sure how we can extract them but they're on the they're on the house side right the actually right on the outside of the blue line but within the buffer zone um they're empty they're not there's no haard no material in those those those barrels actually carry were used to uh move silage yeah yeah what do I know I didn't even know how to spell that a week ago so um uh so it's some point in time they're not sharp so that's down the road but but I've been attempting to uh remove as much of the additional metal that we've come across uh as possible to Wi I just got a uh metal detector so I want to be able to go now that the right field is cleared I want to try to ground penetrate and and uh um detect any metal that that might be there while it's Disturbed yeah okay it was just cut two weeks ago or Y okay okay y so um to supplement David's comment about the fal pool protection area um we're trying to protect it and allow it to grow over time into a Vernal pool Upland area it doesn't mean nobody can walk in there it mean cuz I agree with him I think at some point we can come up with a trail in there and it could even be a like go see the veral pool you know follow this Trail and and and and it's a a highlight of that of that site I think that's okay Carl you got me excited so so I did do one thing I I mowed the perimeter of the the the field but just on the perimeter just to keep just to be able to see what was there so where I would hope to put a um 88 Trail yeah we can okay and and and I didn't disturb technically it's an accessibility Trail but yeah uh yes thank you thank you so in I've learned that recently so I've got projects that in in mind to do that has been there since John you and I were uh working together basically um a little more fine um uh the so so the you just put the um the string up mhm I think that's a hazard okay I think it's a hazard to uh because it's not a bright string because it's light it it's light I like it better than the the nylon rope that you had before which would have I would give you given those posts maybe two weeks before it got blown over but um but when it's dusk you can't see those well people shouldn't be on the site at dusk so um so so that being said um the other thing that I think is a you know can be put on the list of projects for that site would be to put a split rail fence there and in 10 years if the if the land has grown into being a Vernal pool Upland area inside the fence maybe we take the fence out in 5 years or 10 years I so you know there's a lot of possibilities there but right now we needed to DeMark demarkation one of the things we talked about was a native plant area down there I kind of like soft lines as opposed to hard lines but yep so I want to keep moving on here I think these are all good ideas and I think we can do that I think you've don't have uh you have one event uh that is not happening and the other event is going to be you you're going to get the I'll get that out tomorrow or the day after um that's a daytime event I think you said that no that's it's a it's a night viewing it's a PL Stars looking at the stars so okay so so you'd be okay with the same conditions oh yeah when're not I I don't voluntarily go night walking been there done it there are alligators out there okay um I want to talk about Fieldstone okay Fieldstone okay because uh you had said to me a while back no REM removal of stone and we talked about um uh the uh help me uh the survey the uh the Baseline Baseline thank you very much bill um Baseline survey I could not find Field Stone or stone anywhere in the uh Warr pole bdr okay plenty of stone but they were talking about stone walls Stone steps so um um I'm just hopeful that that we can advance far enough on that Baseline survey that um there's only a window of time that the the DPW could remove some of the stone and make it easier to mow not this year not this year the the the um sub Valley no subur Valley's told us leave everything in place don't don't change anything to include Fieldstone yes yes fieldstones removed by everybody all the time I I find that mindboggling Carl but but thank you I you know it's a fair exchange of words yeah that's what they said I'm going to ask you every time I come here which isn't going to be that much long okay um okay I'm good John I think this is going to be a learning curve because Dave has got to catch up on what having different types of get togethers out there which we haven't normally had we haven't had much had much of that on the sites lately so I think it's going to be a learning curve to we're all on the same page yep and you understand what what we're looking for you understand what maybe David needs to hear tonight tonight was an education for me so yes so I one thing in particular say that you blew the trails the trails were blown well in the past we discussed that a couple years ago that we weren't going to blow any Trails so we have to figure out at this point at that site maybe it's needs to be done to identify stones that are on the trail or hazards in the trail and there's still some metal that I I tripped over that's what I'm saying it's a learning curve and it's it's going to evolve into what we really expect down there but I I wanted to end with this with I was down there today you guys are doing a phenomenal job you know you come here and maybe it's a little push back one way or another but in the in the scheme of things between yourself the other people that have vol ering in the DPW the place is the amount of work that's been done there is phenomenal there's a there's a pile of you know of brush that the DPW dragged out just as big as this room well that would be a good night visit thank you thank you very much and sometimes I think sometimes we get hung up on little issues good and the big picture is you're down there every day you're doing a great job the people who come and help pull all the stuff out of the walls and and off the trees and stuff they don't get the recognition and the DPW guys too they love it doing that work they've done stuff at other sites that we've had that they don't get the recognition from all the time but as a group everybody's going for the same DPW here's what I've learned okay DPW they're F phenomenal and and what you see is EXC 100% of what DPW does and you know what you're getting out of them they have a vision they in each of each of the persons in dpu has their own ver version of a of a vision of what they want to do so so the nice part about a vision is it's all aligned you don't have to draw and tell them do this do that do this they do it better than I could describe it right okay and they got equipment and they and they got the right equipment I want to talk about one thing Warren pole it's out of my baileywick okay we haven't we haven't um cleared warn po since we bought it is that correct if we if we mowed it since well there's one field that's been cut many times oh up in a yeah that the Apple field the maini no the main Meadow is a wet Meadow and there's not very much for Woody we've cut on the edges and until we start to see a lot of wood Woody stuff coming into the field I don't know that we're going to cut it much we're also trying to get a uh we're working with the Oxo trying to get a Land Management plan put together for that that would tell us exactly what we should do there it's a wet Meadow it's a it's a different animal and and I want to do the right thing there so right now it's doing fine actually we've had in uh we've had uh native plants coming in has been invasives the purple light loose strife came in like crazy this year but other stuff has come in a lot of uh uh Golden Rod a lot of Joe p weed and a lot of different native plants have come in there and it's actually doing quite well it's it's doing really well interesting we we need to move on all right yeah thank you John thanks thank you uh speaking of Warren pole um we are working the CR uh still um um I think it's actually I'm not saying I'm not going to say anything I jinx myself myself every time we're we're still in progress on that so still work in progress um um next agents report uh what do you have David on agents report um so the select board has requested uh again comments on the proposed chapter 40b project at 243 River Neck Road I yes um now this is this is um another application the first application was um in the context of a lip local initiative project which is sort of a friendly B AKA friendly 40b where the applicant works with the town on doing the 40b I gathered that the select board said no they weren't going to do that so now it's back to a standard 40b um project so the select board is again requesting comments on that project and so my suggestion and proposal if everyone is okay with it is I sent a letter David and I sent letters to the select board in April or March or April for the lip that described our um concerns with any kind of development on that property and I will basically just put a new date on it and send it again if that's okay with anybody same concerns I think that's fine you guys okay with that okay I thought the project was different I I thought that one building was going to be going to be sold so that's when building was coming up for an auction that's a good point and that um I should I should qualify by saying I will send the same concerns in general but we haven't seen any plans we don't know what the detail is for this new new plan so so we don't we don't know but a plan in any kind of any kind of development on that site we have concerns General concerns not specific right that's that's my big that's a big concern no matter what you do there it's it's a concern there there's no septic system I mean there's no surage system right it's going to be an onsite septic system and you know how close it is to the wetlands yeah to the wellfields there wellfield Zone to right very sensitive environmental site very so we're my point is we have the exact same concern I'll put a new date on it I'll say we haven't seen any plan that you know updated plan and other than that it's still all all the same all the same concerns yeah okay what else okay so um the commission probably remembers quite well at this point uh that little little Littleton Road parcel um back there a few months ago where um right on Bieber Brook right right on Beaver Brook where the site was accessed and cleared without permission uh a storage container was um put there uh at that time uh at after um issue issuance of uh an enforcement order um which which required um filing of an RDA for the work that was done um the during that process the owner voluntarily removed the storage container um after getting a strong sense from the commission that you know probably going to be asked to remove it uh so he he did remove it um at that time but it's back in the last couple weeks or so it it it is I don't know if it's the exact same one but it is a storage container that's back on the site um again without permission um so I need to know how the commission wants to deal with this did we say that he couldn't have one on site or it had to be so many feet from the veral pool or uh there was in the in the negative determination applicability it was not add at all because uh it had been removed but in our in our discussions we made it clear that it should be removed yes so yes can we ask is his law well his his uh not lawyer but his uh engineer engineer was Susan wasn't it Susan who was well was his representative yes well I guess either go to her but I she's probably moved on yes probably not under contract with him so so I I think the options for the commission at this point are ask him nicely to remove it issue enforcement order telling him to remove it or uh ask him to come in and talk about it and say you know maybe give him the sense that well maybe there are some conditions under which it could stay there which would be a switch I I I still don't mind the idea of having him come in in talk to us um if you want to approach it as um ask him to remove it Andor do you want to come in and talk about it to us to the commission something something like that like that like we want to remove but if you got to issue a question with that you can come in and meet with us I like that yeah but just one shot because I remember that offer being extended previously yeah that dragged off for a long time we actually to give a very a date very certain when we want that thing gone by yeah we have two meetings left it's got to be one of those meetings okay okay in this calendar so so so but the point if he wants to come in and talk about it what what would be the point of that just to understand why does he have it there what's what's his intention didn't you understand that we told you to get rid of it but but I think he might take that as the slightest opening that he's going to be allowed to keep it there it's just going to drag it on and if there's no chance the commission want is going to allow it to stay there I think should be told to remove it good point I I I like what you're saying because I know I personally there's no chance in my mind I'd want it there I don't know I think everybody agrees right I think in that case the issue is do you ask nicely you know the commission respectfully requests that you remove that yeah by a a such and such date or issue an enforcement order which he can appeal let's start with the yes nicely let's let's start there all right you know you I know you you get the hammer okay so I'll give him a DAT honey to came with Vega let's start let's start there ask nice once like one chance nice like remove it by what mid December or oh give a week I think the end of end of November okay but immediately okay yeah by December 1st yeah okay December 1st is the date thanks uh say November 30th okay yeah what else I know you have one more uh the certificate of compliance or brick hilm Oh brick hilm uh so finally got uh an RDA on that one so um a little bit after the fact um but that will be that will be on the agenda for um the the November 26th meeting so I think in that case though it's important to remember that again there are two parts to this issue one is the after after the fact filing of the RDA for what they originally wanted to do out there and the second part of it is the restoration aspect which again that's that I think should be done according to what um Alex has talked about you know file a restoration plan and that was in the original enforcement order um now um the property owner actually his daughter has indicated that they are talking to Norse environment Al about that okay think we can certainly ask on the progress encouraging at yeah yeah yeah glacial Pace every every every little bit is part of the problem was was a lack of funds correct that's that's what they were saying yeah for a while I don't know if that's still an issue I have a lack of funds too that just means I don't you know how how do you what can you do if someone doesn't have money okay guess you should be patient which is you at this point we have an RDA filed so I'm I'm happy happy happy to hear that that's good um I just throw in add that David and I met on the um uh with uh uh right here with James from the town manager's office that the um Town websites are undergoing some facelifting and we're discussing the concom website and I I'm actually pretty excited about how it might change going forward I think we'll it'll be positive more come but just give you a heads up to it's probably weeks if not months away but um but I'm I'm I'm encouraged do some really good things with it yeah things like um event uh uh regist forms registration all that kind of stuff so do a lot better than right now you don't want to point anybody to the website it's not very good not easy to navigate no and it's just not yeah CFC uh yes so um have had a request for certificate of compliance for uh this uh order conditions uh on six Dalal Drive um the only thing i' I've done the inspection everything's in compliance the only thing that uh I'm still waiting for that I thought I would have by today is the ASO plan so I recommend the commission approve the certificate compliance to be released when I receive the ASO plan I'll take a motion so move Mr chair motion from Chris second and second from Mark any further discussion none all in favor I so it is good to see we are getting requests for certificates of compliance for some of these more recent projects good to hear it's not someone else's problem 25 years down the road last thing on our agenda is um approving meeting minutes so we have minutes in front of us August 13th take a a look at those um if you have any issues did I hear somebody say there was a was it on this one or the other one was there an issue yeah there's a wrong date on on the September 10th it says September 9th that's all right you see all right so August 13th we had uh Hunt Road had sors Russell Road that's seems like a long time it was August 13th was a while ago it was the one I had to do from the television showing I kept getting interrupted and Furious and yeah took a while 10 pages it was stupid long too thanks for hanging in there all right I'll take a motion to approve the minutes for August 13 any I move to approve the minutes of August 13th Mr chair from Chris second from John any all all in favor all right all right minutes approved take a look at September 10th 10th should be 10th okay with that correction I wasn't even here so look at that absent I know oh really what I asking for only missed like two meetings 17 years 17 years I move Mr chairman that we approve the minutes of September 10th 2024 motion from Chris second second from Bill all in favor I I you abstain abstain from Mark okay I move to ajour and motion motion passed go ahead before we adjourn I wanted to throw something up if I so so the minutes were approved and motion pass was subject to the correction subject to the correction of September 10th Peter has a comment just just want to share with everybody because I'm going to miss the next meeting and this thing's going to move fast but uh tree committee is working with Christine Clancy on that $75,000 that was approved at town meeting to do a tree and invasive survey and Carl I know you've had some discussions probably with Christine at DPW about maybe extending that study to do some sort of invasive work with an outside consultant at a couple of our conservation Parcels so uh if anyone wants Carl I'll look to you and we can talk offline how much this commission wants to dive in but a scope of work will be developed over the next 3 four weeks and then we'll have uh consultant interviews and selection probably after the new year so I'd like the commission commission has some interest in invasive just think about big interest how much you want to dive in and we can certainly work offline through focused on town properties and we come on to that but I think they're looking at like along the streets and things yeah because it's a DPW it's a public public there's also the sudri valley sisma we can pull them in as well um for some of the invasive stuff so right and I think I don't know if it's premature but it seems to me there ought to be an invasives Committee of people that do it like John Ray and others who are interested yep but we can talk about that another day motion Chris to adjourn second second from Peter I heard Peter first all in favor I meting adjourn Thank You Cher T media thank you everybody e e for