the chair of the commission. We will be following the published and posted uh amended agenda. Uh this meeting is both in person and through zoom. In the case of the zoom not working properly, we will continue the meeting in person only. This meeting is being broadcast by
chrydia and will be available on their website and YouTube. And we do have a quorum here at the uh of the commission. Uh, I'd remind everyone that the commission is chartered to protect our natural resources and most specifically the wetlands and to manage land held in
conservation. Couple of quick uh notes. Um, first the NOI hearing on Freeman Lake tonight is not about the herbicide treatment. That is a separate treat that is a separate hearing that is in scheduled for two weeks on May 27th. Tonight the hearing is about the
mechanical harvesting. So just so everyone knows that uh the second thing is that I want to say that contrary to what was discussed during last night's select board meeting, we do not have any specific coolest property discussion um planned
tonight. That is not on our agenda. Um we uh the conservation commission are working on the conservation restrict restriction and all of the related activities to complete it. We do have an agenda item tonight about recommending the use of CPA money for the purposes of
conducting a boundary survey for the four coolest property par parcels which is part of our CR process. And um as always, the site is and always will be open and accessible to the public. There is and should continue to be clear access between the parking area and the
trail system, including the picnic table area. So I don't um I don't anticipate any further discussion on Koulis tonight. if it needs to be an agenda item at some future night, we can we can talk about that. But um that is all we're going to talk about coolest
tonight. Um I also was asked if we could put the second item on our agenda first. So we will start with Mr. Chris Lvali from the planning board uh the liaison and he can give his update to the conservation commission. Hello Chris, good evening. Good evening. Um so the
last planning board meeting on April 23rd, we primarily talked uh about the Kate's Corner um zoning and we also got a request from the owner of the landing at Chumsford Mills um on 5559 Middle Sex Street to potentially
include their area in that zoning too. So we're looking at that as well. Um this week's meeting, we are continuing that discussion, hopefully winding it down in preparation for a future uh public hearing uh that will be um prior
to the fall town meeting. Um we don't have any public hearings scheduled for this week. We have a number of administrative type uh discussions, town meeting debrief, um an update on the ADU bylaw, attorney
general review, um discussion of potential zoning articles that we might um bring forward at fall town meeting. Uh discussing the state planning grant that we're looking at doing uh to help us with uh updating use tables and
zoning maps. um and potentially the strategic plan uh aspect of our our work as well. Uh we will be talking about the planning board uh part of the strategic plan. Um we are going to be appointing two
planning board members to the climate resilience and sustainability design guidelines task force and then um approving some minutes. So it's going to be a lot of administrative type discussions, no regulatory hearings. Okay. Any questions for for Chris? No,
nothing. Chris, thanks. Thanks very much. Okay. Appreciate it. Next, we are going to talk uh about the costou termination. Let me ask first, are there any citizen concerns other than the cost discussion, the cost
termination that someone has to bring to our attention? Something in a totally different area. If let's get that out of the way if there's anyone that has something to bring up. Nope. Okay. So, we'll talk about that. Um, I'm going to ask that uh anyone that wants to speak
can come up to the podium and speak. I'm going to limit it to two minutes um for any given speaker. Um, we do have a busy agenda tonight, so at some point I may decide we've heard enough and uh we're going to terminate the discussion. Um,
please make sure when you come up you give your name and your address and we'll we will listen. He's going to time me and I'll talk fast because I have a lot to share. Um this uh Denise Ferbuson, John Dalton, 50 High Street. Good evening. Thanks for the
opportunity. Uh we're here as homeowners in Chelsea for 37 years. In that time, we've witness our open spaces transform from neglected where we didn't feel safe setting foot into jewels of our town. Everybody remembers what Lime Cororey used to be like? Think about that.
Naturally, we became concerned that residents are going to lose out when the conservation commission ends theou with costs. Personally, we've benefited from those efforts to maintain the properties and from the community outreach. Cost is why we're aware of the great outdoor spaces that we can enjoy. Also, we're
here tonight because we regularly see families with kids visiting those places just like us at that hour. At this hour, it's meal time. So, they're at home bedtime meals, bed, you know, stories. So, those stakeholders aren't likely to be here weighing in. So, we're here. We're worried that ending theou is
likely to degrade the quality and accessibility of these spaces where cost contributes. We have questions. How will the properties be maintained and managed after theou ends in six months? To our knowledge, this is our knowledge only, there was not an opportunity for resident input ahead of time, nor a plan
publicly shared for going forward. We know that the town budget will always be limited, right? We don't have parks and recreation conservation, you're tasked with a lot of regulatory responsibilities. There is a lot to do.
So to us, the volunteer efforts of cost have been an amazing win-win in extending resources. I'll end with a personal example. Two years ago, John and I were out at the cranberry bog in the early morning when we noticed mama turtles making their way across the earth damp to lay eggs. We observed they
needed protection from curious people and dogs fast. I wouldn't have known where to go in that moment if not for the ongoing community engagement and education by cost. I reached out and Phil Stanway responded fast. He immediately brought the nesting activity to the attention of someone here, I
think, and I just want to thank that person because they acted quickly to post a sign and tape off the area. So, I appreciate that. So, I want to say the public goodwill and volunteer spirit that COS has nurtured in partnership with our town has made our open spaces far better. I mean, we've experienced
that. The collaboration has improved our quality of life. We really don't want to see that lost. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate you. Thank you very much. Hi, my name is Emily King. I live at 27 Clover Hill Drive. First of all, I want
to thank you all just realizing that you are volunteers for volunteering your time. Um, and I'm hoping that I' i'd ask you to continue the memoration the memorandum of understanding with costs.
Um, I listened to the conversations that you had in the April 22nd meeting and it's clear that there's some baggage. It's clear that there's some communication breakdowns. Um, but my son came to watch your committee discuss and
deliberate. Um, as part of the communications merit badge, he is a scout. Um, and there was a whole group of young men here. Um, and I think that as role models um, in this community, I
would implore you all to find a way to to communicate um, and find literally and figuratively common ground that you have for the good of our community because you sort of said that CS, you know, did some good
things. They are outstanding and impressive. And I will tell you, I don't know if you are out there raking the um beaches and looking for widow makers and um maintaining the trails and doing all the things. I am not because I'm a
teacher and I'm a busy mom and I and and I don't have that expertise. But they are out there. Their boots are on the ground. They are working. Um it is quite impressive that despite the issues that you all have with one another, there
must be incredible leadership and incredible expertise there that they have accomplished all that they have and that they have done such an outstanding job. So I would ask you all to to work together um to continue that partnership for the benefit of our town. Thank you
so much. Thank you. Uh hello, I'm Karen Crowdamel. Um, I apologize. I'm going to be reading um, so I don't lose any of my notes, but um, I have applied for the empty chair that you guys announced in your last meeting. So, I'm waiting for my interview with Mr. Cohen. I look forward to that. Um, I
was there this morning helping clean up. Um, unfortunately having to give away everything it sounds like. But, um, I was helping cost this morning. Uh, my biggest thing that I wanted to say is, um, I've been here for eight years. This is the open spaces. Um, and the fact
that the volunteers do what they do as as Emily had just noted with cutting even cutting grass, breaking the beach is a huge thing. I lived in Seattle. Seattle, of course, major city has parks and wreck paid people. They take care of the parks. They run programming. They have a park and wreck building in every
single neighborhood in Seattle. Lived in New Jersey. Everything's privatized. Lakes were privatized unless you live there. This park is privatized unless you live there. My lord, coming to Chumsford, I was like, look at this. It's open to everyone and it's being cared for by the volunteers. I find that
personally amazing. Um, I think it's a it's a huge loss. Again, kind of spanning on what you guys had mentioned. We'll do this to volunteer. You guys will take turns walking. It's everything that costs already has established. So, I'm a little bit frustrated. Um, and which again I'm not going to go through
my resume, but hopefully I don't know if you've been shared my resume, but I feel like I definitely have qualifications to be on this committee with you. Um, but I mainly just want to say hello to everyone and let them know that I'm running. Um, but as far as the younger kids, I my youngest I have four. My
youngest now is in fifth grade, so I was able to get away. But, um, you know, I've we've during COVID, we ran through uh the, you know, the red um red wing. I and my husband run through. Why we run? Because we can. There's no ticks.
Because it keeps mode. It's mode and mode. On the news, national news, they talked about how, you know, ticks is killing people literally. So, um, the amount of work that they do to keep them clean, clean up from all the teenagers that are trying to drink and litter in
the in there is just phenomenal. And it's not, you can't start from scratch. Um, that's the biggest thing is to start from scratch seems absolutely ridiculous. I've heard the stories of how the lands were before I moved here. Um, and I'm thankful of where we are now. So, um, and then Scouts, we all
know the the interaction that Scouts has had. I was a cubmaster for six plus years through COS. My Cubac had 40 kids. We had 40 kids plant each got to plant in the pollinator garden because put us in touch with the woman who was in charge of the pollinators and she nicely
had 40 holes dug for my 40 cub scouts. So there's just so much so much overlap and so much opportunity that I feel like this is just a big slap in the face um to a lot of people and it's not okay and I want to be part of a resolution to
make this better. Um which is why I want to be on your committee um yeah and I volunteer plenty um and this is the next step in volunteering for a town. So I'm ready and able um so I hope to see you guys soon. What was your last name? I'm sorry.
That's crowdamel. C R O U T H A M E L. And did I get my address? I'm sorry. 12 Mansfield Drive. Thank you. Yep. Good evening. Good evening. Beth Benoy for Stony Brook Road, North Chumsford. I
like many people, many scout families owe a debt to cause. I want to make that very clear. I have two Eagle Scouts and Cause was a big part of that. Now, I will also say that the cause that existed when my kids were going for Eagle, I do not think is the same
organization that it is today. All our volunteer organizations are struggling and I can't get a good sense of what cause is really capable of. Um, I heard on your April 22nd
meeting that cause was not living up to theou and I also heard that theou was written with a sixth month notice to terminate in case there was a disagreement, an emotional
disagreement to give their kind of a cooling off period. So my question for you is if cause actually used the next five months and one week to actually live by thatou and prove that they could be a good collaborator in good faith.
Would it be an option to change that decision? You don't have to answer. I'm obviously just speaking. But I I would hope if I was doing something in cause that that would be my first response if I had been told I was not living up to an agreement to actually go and prove that I could live up to that agreement.
And I hope if cause is listening to this that they will take that um advice and move forward with it. Thank you. Anyone else? Good evening. Um, my name is Melissa Williams, 114 Robin Hill Road. Um, I've
been a resident in Chelmsford for over 20 years. I originally came here um because I taught in town and I want to speak to you as many of the other residents this evening that one of the reasons I am standing here is because
not only did I choose to move to the town that I was teaching in, but also to raise my children. I have a college student who's 19 and a um junior who's 17 and I have benefited and my whole
family has benefited from the cause um group. That being said, we still benefit from it. I think somebody had spoken to the fact during COVID. Um, not only did my family benefit from getting out of the house, going down to Sunny Meadows,
using all the green spaces, to be able to communicate and see the volunteers out there on the land doing the work, communicating with them. I got to meet my students from my classroom could meet
me in an open space in my community. The ability to enjoy the green spaces in our town is something that I treasure. It is something that um I know the residents that are standing here, the
residents that are at home this evening treasure. And as a teacher, um, I would ask the board as well as cause to think about how you can communicate better and consider renewing
the memorandum between you because, as we've said, we've got lots of Eagle, Scouts, and people working out with costs in benefit to the conservation. We are modeling for our young children, our
young adults, how things are managed. And I would recommend if there's a communication, then somebody communicates. Maybe you need an liaison between both groups. Whatever it is, I stand strongly this evening that I
appreciate everything the town does. I love living here and I just don't understand why a termination is necessary. I think a conversation needs to be had and if that's ha if that's happened then I would like to be
supplied with specific reasons as to why a volunteer group is being terminated when you can't get people to volunteer for things just in general. So, I thank you for the opportunity to speak and um
thank you. Hi, my name is Ben Wright for Gford Lane. Um, so it it seems like there's a lot of work, you know, around Chster to kind of keep our um, you know, spaces looking great and enjoyable to to to uh kind
of, you know, kind kind of to enjoy like um spending your time there, you know, walking your dog, hiking with your kids or whatever. Um it seems that um although like it from the meeting recording last week or last time it seemed like there was certain things that maybe weren't being um handled by
costs that um maybe that the commission would have liked. Um, I guess I'd like to ask to see if there's a way that maybe an amendedou could be done. So that maybe maybe if there's like a bandwidth problem that they couldn't get out get to all those bases that maybe an
understanding could be made because it seems that some of the work is done is better than none of the work done. And basically, I feel that the town needs as much help as it needs to kind of keep these um spaces, you know, maintained. Um especially since we're we don't
really have, you know, the budget to to pay the staff. Um, so I think that we need to kind of make sure that we um keep the the relationships with the people that are volunteering um and be able to um work with them to see what they're able to contribute um and not
just necessarily shut down theou just because they're not able to deliver everything that was asked for. Um so I I guess I'm just really just asking for perhaps a little more, you know, working something out. Maybe there's another alternative um like arrangement that
could be made uh with costs. Um that's it. Thank you. I'm Laura Lavine Lucas. I live on 33 Slay Road. And I didn't think about what to say, but um I've been here for six years, I think, now. Maybe seven. Um, my husband and I, we have an almost
six-year-old and we are really, we're outdoorsy and I see costs out on the conservation parcels around town all the time and I don't actually know of any other we have volunteered with them.
Like we only know about things we can do to help the community because they've told us and we've participated. Uh my daughter got to paint fences at Sunny Meadow last summer. Um my husband helps with the Kulas pulling bittersweet and
stuff. And um uh what else? Well, we've also been to the the Thanksgiving ground forest, the the walk, the Thanksgiving walk, and uh the um stone forts walk, which we didn't try most
recently because I'm not sure my daughter could make it the first time. She didn't make it very far. But um we made it to the first fort which was very exciting. Um but anyway all this stuff and I've never seen any other organizations doing anything in Chelmsford in the na in the open spaces.
Um but I see costs all the time and uh there was one other thing. Oh the the pumpkin armada is really people love that. Um I think that's all I had to say. Thank you. Anyone else?
Um Steve May 70 done wrote at uh one time I was essentially Cas's executive officer except that there is no such title. Um years ago cost came up with the idea of having someone monitor each open space and the job title and
description were in the name steward and stewardship. As we'll see in a a presentation later this evening we still have that cost encouraged a group of people who were handy with chainsaws people who could design build and repair things and people with heavy machinery to become involved and you know what
they still are. It's a tremendous legacy and yet it's time for a new way forward. Over time, cost has lost the plot. Doing has been replaced by talking about doing. Facebook has been confused with reality. As seen on Facebook, cost seems
like an enormous operation. You'd be forgiven if you thought that there was an executive board or a group of directors providing strategic guidance, financial oversight, or co or coordination with top officials. Surely, after 20 years, the number of active members must be very large. If you
thought any of that, you'd actually be mistaken. The number of members active since the beginning is two. The number of people willing and able to complete work at more than one site is also a very small number. That actual number was never published and we saw that again today actually on Facebook. But a
good guess would be three or four. There are a number of groups in town besides cost maintaining the open space. Anyway, with cost there is no executive board, there are no directors. There is no financial oversight. And so I support the committee's action of
April 22nd. Thank you. Joanne Stanway, Six Lantern Lane. I'm a co-founder of the Chumsford Open Space Stewardship. And I didn't really like what Steve May just said at all. Number
one, at no time was he ever an executive officer of this 20year volunteer group. There's never been a board. There's never been any kind of treasurers or anything else. Guys, this is volunteers for 20
years have given 50 hours a week perhaps uh of time plus money out of their own pockets to build stewardship in the town. We've had testimony from people talking about what the open spaces used to look like and
what they look like now. and all of the free community events that we've done. We heard pumpkin armada. We heard day before Thanksgiving walk. We've had multiple other events that you're aware of that have built stewardship. But I think frankly to look
at the 20th year of COSS and the work that the stewards have done and to say that the only thing that remains are two people that are getting any work done. You all have your faces in social media and are looking at Facebook. you know the number of events that occur all the
time. It's not done by one person. It's not done by two people or three people. It's about people who just care about the community and are just doing volunteer work in the town. You're supposed to be smart entrepreneurial
adults. At no point there was another question about whether there was a conversation. There was never any invitation to have a conversation and so the stewards have just plugged along and and done work. There's been a lot of visibility as is evidenced by the people
who have talked tonight. It's just not nice. I hope that's a quote. If the LOL Sun or any of the other media are watching this, I hope the quote is it's just not nice. either the conservation commission or
even the the town of Chumpsford haven't approached this in a very kind way to look at volunteers that have given their time and have achieved so much and you know they have just because it doesn't fit in a structure
that you're comfortable with. There could have been a conversation. The thing that would have been wise to do would have been, "Hey, COOSS, we would like to leverage your institutional knowledge. We'd like to leverage the relationships that you have
with people in the community. We're pleased with all of the great work that you've done in town. We'd like to work together and make this better so that we could join forces. There's nothing wrong with evolving. There's nothing wrong with changing. There's nothing wrong
with making it better. No one has had a conversation with Phil Stanway about this. Not one person. And the reason why there's so much that's on Facebook is for visibility. And if that was also a concern and you didn't like it, rather
than responding with snark, there could have been, hey, let's talk about how we can communicate everything that the town, the stewardship, conservation commission, land conservation trust, and everyone else. Let's figure out how we
can have a strategy for keeping the community informed and getting all of this work done. I'm glad I got to say that because I've been frustrated for years by all of this. It's nasty. I don't like it. It's snarky. And these are people that are
just trying to do something positive in the community. Thank you. [Applause] Anyone else? Okay. Thank you very much. So, I'll have a a statement here. I think I'm speaking for the commission.
Um I haven't run this by everyone. The decision to discontinue the memorandum of understanding with costs was not done hastily. The issues we had with costs had accumulated over time and it eventually made it difficult to get our work done and the negatives were
outweighing the positives. The costsou applied only to a subset of conservation commission properties and not all chumps open space properties. It's actually only eight properties that we're talking about. Sunny Meadow is not included.
Hart Pond is not included. It's only eight properties. We recognize that for the active reservations covered by theou as well as the other conservation sites that theou was not covering, we had full coverage of these sites with
volunteers, many volunteers who are not part of cost and are not and they will continue to support these sites. So if you're concerned that the sites will not be will not be uh will not be maintained, we have a plan that we're going to go through later in the meeting
at the towards the end of the meeting. We have a plan that we will go through that has all of the sites that we are talking about in thisou covered. We have had very little interaction with costs especially in the last four to five years. Our last cost project proposal to
the commission I think I have this right was 2019. Our last Eagle Scout project via cost was around 2021. I might be wrong on that, but it's probably pretty close to accurate. The termination of theou will not impact the
ability of the existing volunteers, and it's a long list to support those sites going forward. Many, if not most of those volunteers do not consider themselves to be members of CS. We will be talking about this new
stewardship model later in our agenda. This isn't complicated. We're talking about maintaining trails. These are volunteers that just do the work. There remain other town sites and events and many of those cost events are excellent and I think they've been great over the
years and they can continue to happen. Nothing is stopping costs or any other organization in town from doing any kind of events in town on our properties. We have been doing this for years, many years. You make a request to our agent, David Coun, and we will review it. He
will review it. If it's a big deal pro uh event, it might come to the commission and take three weeks. If it's something he can approve quickly, it'll probably get approved in a day or two. So, we the the the Thanksgiving walk absolutely can keep doing that. All of these events can continue to go. They
were not part of theou. Those are wonderful events. I've been to all of them. I remember the pumpkin armada. I was there po but in the meantime um COS has refused for more than 10 years to attend any conservation commission
meetings and work directly with us. We need to be able to work directly with the people in our meetings with the volunteer group that supports the land under our responsibility posts on Facebook. We're done. We're done. I can't address the 10 years. You
cannot. We are done. I said we're done. I'm going to finish my talk and then we're done. We're moving on. We have an agenda. We need to go. Posts on Facebook do not constitute working with conservation. Elected and appointed town boards and commissions are given strong
guidance by town council to not engage in social media discussions. So we see a lot of posts that are attacking our work and we can't respond and and it comes from costs and we're very very
frustrated and this has been years. My in-person re interactions with Phil and email interactions in the past three years have often ended up in Facebook with his comments and his version of the story. I spec
specifically asked him via email to correct some factually incorrect postings. He did not do it. We believe as we all know as we all know there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation on social media. You are not seeing the whole story. We believe that a new model
for site management is needed. We're moving forward as we have a lot of work to accomplish in the area of land management. We are very happy with the number of volunteers that we have working on sites. I see many of them in here. Many of them in here next to you.
They're here and they're they're supporting our decision. I'm telling you right now, there's a lot of people in town supporting our decision. Anyone wishing to volunteer. I love to have volunteers. We're happy to have volunteers at our conservation sites. Please contact our agent, David,
or any member of the commission. We are happy to have volunteers. We're happy to work with volunteers who support the mission of the Conservation Commission. We want to provide open space resources for our citizens. I 100% agree. I was out at three sites this morning before 6:00 this
morning. We we we have wonderful conservation sites and we have wonderful volunteers in town, but the picture you get is not the reality. We need to protect our natural resources and we need to protect the habitat for the critters that live among us. Thank you
very much. It's time to move on. We have another agenda. I We have many agenda items and we're going to move on right now. Okay. Um request for determination of applicability for one Lakeside Avenue. This is Alicia Harper. Um the uh
applicant is uh in the room maybe David or on uh representative I saw her. Yes, there she is. Okay. So do we have a notice? Chris, Mr. Chairman, there is a legal notice. U pursuant to the provisions of the
Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act Mass General Laws chapter 131 section 40 and the Chsson wetlands bylaw chapter 187. The Chumps of Conservation Commission will conduct a public hearing here in room 204 at the Chsa Town offices on Tuesday, May 13,
2025 to consider the request for determination of applicability filed by property owner Alicia Harper for proposed work within 100t buffer zone to Hart Pond one Lakeside Avenue, further identified as assessor's parcel map
124Block 482 lot 1. The project entails expansion of an existing attached deck. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Chris, can we hear about the project, please? Um, hi, Elisha Harper. Um, I purchased uh one Lakeside Avenue and um on Hart Pond in
October. The existing deck that's off the side is I don't know like 3x4. It's very wobbly. Um, I want to expand it and uh, as it's on the on the pond, I just
wanted to go through the right steps to make sure that I was doing everything the right way. Um, my father is a uh, general contractor but lives in Ohio, so he's going to be assisting with it. Um, I am not getting I'm not going
beyond the um I'm not going closer to the pond. I'm not um expanding beyond the edge of the house. Um and I'm looking to do a 12. What did I do? 16 by 10. That's what
I decided to request. Okay. David, do you uh I think you went to the site. I did. Yes. Comments. Uh sure. So, um it's as as Alicia just mentioned, it's it's not going any closer to the lake than what's already
been disturbed. Um I I think the main concern here is um and I spoke a little bit about this with Alicia is just if if there's digging that needs to be done for the footings and I don't know, have you made a decision on that yet? Yeah, there are three footings. Um, in the
draw in the um the drawings that my father put together, it's uh poured concrete, but I've been talking to David about it and um I found a company that could uh drill the helical pilings instead. So, they're coming out on the 21st to do um an estimate for that. So,
that's the plan. um if something unless something egregious happens and in which case I would um implement erosion control if I had to move forward with uh so so I don't you know if if if the helico piles are being used I don't think erosion control is needed um but
but I think just in case that doesn't work out I I just think putting just to be on the safe side putting putting a condition in in the determination applicability just to say that if any digging is done erosion control needs to be installed prior to the start of it
and that I need to go out and inspect it and I spoken to Alicia about all of this as well. So I think that's that's the only thing in my mind. Okay, any questions? Uh John, you have any questions? No, I think the helic Okay. best route you can go. Okay.
Minimal and it's and it's done and it's done quick. Yeah, it works out better for me anyway with coordinating my father coming up from Ohio. That way that can be done ahead of time and he can just get to work. So, yeah,
I'm good. Okay, great. Mark, uh, nope. Uh, the helic coils are the way to go. Just depends what your resources are. They're not cheap. Yeah, I I have Ericson Foundation coming out. I I don't know. I'd rather just be Okay. But if if you don't go that route, what what David
said must be done. Yep. I'll work with I'll work with him the whole way if if something else happens. So, Chris, yeah, I'm good with the project. All right. Okay. Any uh this is an open meeting, so are there any questions, any comments from the public? We're open to any any
uh I assume butter notices went out and all that. Uh those aren't required for RDA. Yes. Three. H3. I think this is a negative three. Yes. Yeah. So, I'll take a motion. Uh if we have no more further discussion, you have to close the hearing. I move to close the hearing.
Mr. Chairman, motion from Chris. Second. Second from Bill. All in favor? I close the meeting. Okay. Uh Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the project with a negative3 determination uh with the condition as uh as mentioned before from our agent that um that we have before
there's any digging that we have an erosion controls put in place and also the opportunity for our agent to go out and check the site out first. Um and as you heard, we certainly like the helical um piles as well. Okay. Uh just a quick question. Do I should I have you come out and look at it after the helical
piles are installed or is that that certainly wouldn't hurt. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's the motion, Mr. Chairman. Motion from from Chris. Second. Second from Mark. All in favor? I I I Okay. Motion passes. Uh very good. Good luck.
I'll let you know when the paperwork is ready to pick up. Okay. Perfect. Sounds like a good project. Appreciate it. All right. That's uh first regulatory hearing. Next regulatory hearing, we are now looking at the notice of intent for the town of Chumsford with Freeman Lake
and this is uh Courtney. Hello Courtney. This is town of DPW. Town of Chsford DPW. Uh Courtney is representing the town and we have a notice. So Chris, Mr. Chairman, chairman, pursuant to the provisions of the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act, Mass General Law,
Chapter 131, Section 40, and the Chams Wetlands bylaw, Chapter 187, Chsford Conservation Commission will conduct the public hearing here in room 204 at the town offices on Tuesday, May 13, 2025 to consider the notice of intent followed
by the town of Chumsert on behalf of property owner Commonwealth of Massachusetts for proposed alteration of land underwater bodies and waterways. at Freeman Lake. The project entails mechanical harvesting as part of the aquatic management program at Freeman
Lake for the control of nuisance and invasive aquatic vegetation. Mr. Chairman, thank you, Chris. All right. Hello, Courtney. Can you tell us about your project? Hi. Yep. Yes. I'm Courtney Thompson. I'm the storm water engineer at the DPW. Um the town is seeking
approval to include mechanical harvesting as part of the aquatic management program at Freeman Lake. The proposed project has been filed as an ecological restoration limited project and will protect the interest of the wild of the wetland protection act by
controlling non-native nuent species, improving fish habitat, improving water quality, and slowing pond utrification. Freeman Lake is approximately 77 acres and is located entirely in Chsford. This water body is primarily boarded by small woodlands and
residential developments. Freeman Lake wershed consists of both a local whed and a much larger watershed associated with the inlet diversion from Stonybrook. Um in 2023 the town hired a consultant TRC and they began or I think
we hired them in 2022 but in 2023 they began a comprehensive assessment of Freeman Lake. Um, a quantitative survey conducted in June of 2024 by TRC revealed the presence of 12 native and three non-native invasive species. The
TRC study documented that approximately 19.2 acres of the lake contained aquatic plant coverage with the majority of the vegetation covering more than 75% of the lake bottom. Non-native Eurasian mil foil, fan wart, and water chestnut impose uh negative impacts largely due
to their dense foliage. TRC reported that most aquatic plant beds were characterized by bio volumes exceeding 50% of the water column. The excessive plant cover can reduce fish density and has the ability to interfere with oxygen exchange within the lake. The
competitive invasive vegetation vegetative growth also reduces light for benthic organisms and a healthy assemblage of of native vegetation. The conditions described in the TRC report are not conducive to a healthy aquatic ecosystem and require management
to improve water quality and habitat. Accordingly, this NOI proposes to include mechanical harvesting as part of the aquatic management program at Freeman Lake to to improve the ecological function and value of Freeman Lake. A separate NOI has been submitted to initiate an integrated management
program at Freeman Lake and I that is scheduled to be on uh the agenda for next concoming. So um mechanical harvesting which involves cutting and or pulling um aquatic plants with minimal disturbance to the lake bed from a specially equipped watercraft can be an
effective short-term approach to control plant biomass. This method can be useful for scenarios where reduction in biomass is advantageous even though it does not result in long-term control of the targeted plant beds. at Freeman Lake. Um the harvested plant material will be
transferred to a trailer and then um stockpiled and composted at uh the public works storage facility located at 40 Swain Road away from wetlands and water bodies. All the removed vegetative
material will be uh disposed of in accordance with the state and federal regulations which typically would just involve letting it compost away from wetlands and water bodies. Um vegetation vegetative volume will be tracked um for management purposes, but it is
anticipated that less than 100 cubic yards of sediment will be disturbed or removed as part of this harvesting activity. And since the volume is below the 100 cubic yards, the 401 water quality certification threshold um is not required or the 401 WQC is not
required since it's below the threshold. No significant alteration to the wetland's resource area will occur as a result of this proposed mechanical harvesting and instead the resource area will be enhanced by reducing non-native invasive invasive urasian mil foil water chestnut and fan wart. This will sub se
sub sequentially improve water quality and wildlife hab habitat and reduce or slow down the utrification at Freeman Lake. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Courtney. Nice job. David, do you have any commentary? Ju just a couple of
questions, Courtney. So, um, so how how are the locations and the extent of the areas um to be harvested or, you know, cut? How is that how how are they determined? So, we didn't specify in the
NOI what areas the harvesting will occur in because every year a pre-treatment veget I mean not pre-treatment preseason early season vegetative survey will be conducted and the results of that survey combined with our budget for the year
will determine where the treatment will occur. We're hoping to implement this midJune. Um, and one of the other, we'll talk about it more in next meeting, but one of the other big problems that really we could get ahead of at Freeman
Lake is the water chestnut. It's a newer invasive at the lake, and it requires either mechanical harvesting or hand harvesting. And so, one way that we're able to fit mechanical harvesting into our budget this year is trying to time up the first round of water chestnut
harvesting with the mechanical harvester. So um ideally to remove the ideal amount of this dense ve vegetation um our contractor CND underwater they they suggested five or
six days with the harvester. We have it in the budget for two days. So really any reduction of this thick biomass will help. It's kind of a test run this year. And so the we'll be targeting areas with dense vegetation and water chestnut and
then later in the year we'll do a second round of hand pulling of the water chestnut. But that's the way we're able to make it work financially. So it will be um kind of the southern portion. We won't get you know really where it's too low or acting as like a a filter. We
will have to handh harvest some of that area. But that area, there's been another area where water chestnut was identified along the side of the lake and then in the the beach area. Those will be our top targets. But again, um I think later this week or next week, water and wetland is performing a
vegetation survey and that will be used to really make our list. Um our harvester contractor also has not been out. This is our first time using them. So, they've not been out there. And depending on the size of the lake, um
the density of the vegetation, all that will determine how quickly the harvester harvests. Um so, we'll just have to kind of have our priority list. We're not going to get to all of it. It's just to reduce some um because there is concern with
fragmentation because of the invasives that we have. Um now there is the TRC report suggested a lot of different tools that we could use in in an integrated approach. They
actually weren't super super highly recommended mechanical harvesting because of fragmentation but after talking with them at this point Freeman Lakes in such a dire condition that you really can't make it much worse. So, and
supposedly these new types of harvesters, they greatly reduce fragmentation. And there's been some push back from the community to try harvesting. So, that's why we're at a point right now where we can really try it with no harm, no foul. If it does reduce fragmentation like the claim like
it claims to, then great, we can we can add that to our toolbox. But if it doesn't, you know, we're we're in a pretty dire situation anyway. So, okay. So, so I I think you uh uh answered my uh second question, Courtney. Um so, so
the the the proposed uh plan is to use the um the mechanical harvester for only one session this season. And yeah, just the only thing that might vary a little bit is is I know two days or three days or whatever. Um and then and then but
but maybe later on in the year or probably later on in the year then then for the water chestnut do a manual uh pulling. So um we've had a lot of volunteer um enthusiasm about a water
chestnut hand harvesting. Freeman likes a really big water body. So we'll still have plenty of water chestnut for volunteers to help us hand pull um in a big crowd tonight. Yeah. And we do want to have it in two um in two different
events because you want to get it right at the beginning when it starts to bloom and then you want to get it after some have gone to seed is my understanding. So a mid June with the eco harvester to get rid of some of that that other Eurasia mil foil fan wart biomass and
that har that um water chestnut that's how we're able to make it work financially this year. Um, so then it will we can focus more energy on that second round of hand harvesting. And like I said, at the inlet, we might need to do a a much
lesser hand harvesting than if we didn't have the the harvest the mechanical harvester coming in because we might not be able to get I think it's shallow down there. And that's all I had for now. Chris, do you have uh let's ask the rest of the commission. Well, I mean, I'm certainly glad to see this project coming forward and uh it's a good thing
and I'd rather see us try the this harvesting approach first before resorting having to resort to chemicals. I'd rather see how this goes. Do we have any idea how how this similar type of e efforts have done in other towns and communities in in in the area? I mean, what what's the prognosis, I guess, of
of success or not success? So even with the harvester, ideally the harvester will be a tool that we can use in an integrated management system moving forward. really with just cost and being able to like make progressive
steps like that will carry over from year to year in also introducing herbicides into a management program is almost always going to be ideal. It's pretty widely used throughout the state.
Um and you really get mixed reports on how well this handles it. really comes down to the fragmenting. If you get a, you know, the harvester contractors will tell you, "Oh, this new eco- harvesting, it barely fragments at all." And then like almost
anyone else you talk to, they're like, "There's there's still a good amount of fragmentation." So if we started um implementing herbicide treatments as well and we actually got two steps ahead of it and actually started having improvement, we started working on um
you know a little bit a little bit a little bit every year then it might not make sense to use the harvester because you might be fragmenting and propagating it. Now, that's down the line. Even the the budget and the plan for the next
couple years at least would just be really spot treatments of herbicides. We don't have the funding to do like a whole lake sonar that would really give us some carryover. So, it's certainly reasonable to assume that if if this
works, it could be part of the tools that that we use moving forward. Definitely. All right. Well, thanks, Courtney. Yeah, I'm good, Mr. Chair. Mark, it seems like you're exploring all the options. Yes. And I'm glad for that because I'm I don't really want to put chemicals on if
we don't have to. Yeah. And uh it's it's kind of a try for the best and hope what you find out is going to be good. Yeah. So, uh No, I'm in favor of everything you're doing. This sounds great and good luck with it. It's going to be a a process. Yeah. Yep.
Bill, I'm happy you're doing it. Trying to do it, too. Uh where what areas did you say you're going to start in? Is it near the beach area or is it a So, um the the priorities will be determined
once we get the the early season vegetative survey, which is scheduled for I think this week or next week. Um the beach will certainly be a priority area. the this project and the one that's coming next meeting. Um the main
goal is ecological restoration, but there is obviously also safety concerns with with some of these vegetation in highly used areas. So um the beach will certainly be one of the top priorities that to try to get in those two days. Um it also is going to focus on areas where
the water chestnut has been observed or is observed in the treatment survey. And then after that it will be based on that pre-treatment survey where there's really thick growth that um that we can try to really make a dent on because at this point just removing some of that
really thick biomass will is a step in the right direction. But it's kind of like mowing your lawn. It isn't going to make any next year it's going to come back just as bad as it did this. Like obviously it depends on the rainfall and things like that. Every year's a little different, but it's
not making cumulative improvements. Well, I support it. So, good luck. Thank you, John. Yep. Bill asked a question. I was going to ask if you're going to start at the beach. Yeah, the beach will
definitely be be an area focus. Yeah. Yeah. there's definitely significant growth there. Um like in you know so the it it provides improves it provides ecological restoration improves the ecology in that area and also helps with
you know the sa safety aspect of it. I think it's worth a try instead of using chemicals. So yeah I mean it it'll be discussed with more next meeting but it definitely is intended as in addition to these other components. Um, but it we
wanted to submit it separately in case hopefully it'll be easier to to get it through and it's something we can implement this this season if the other one hits roadblocks. Good. What was the name of the contractor? CND Underwater, I believe it's called. CND. Okay. CND
water or underwater something like that. All right. This is a public hearing, so we are uh open to any comments from the public. If anyone from the public would like to come up and comment on this, um, give you a couple of minutes. So, make sure you give your name and your address.
Hi there. Excuse me. Hi there. Peter Se, 48 Middle Sex Street. Um, so, uh, in general, uh, clearly the water chestnut is a critical issue that will, you know, I'm glad to see is being addressed and I will help with that.
uh and the mechanical harvesting is a plus over chemical treatment. Um so in principle I don't have any problems with this notice of intent. Um the problem
I'm having is the report. Uh the report um suffers from some bad data which I had alerted u DPW to. uh data that failed uh to meet the protocols that
were put in place decades ago by EPA. EP. So, you're referring to the TRC report. TRC report. I'm Thank I I know I'm trying to head off you guys thinking the TR TRC report justifies an
ecological restoration project and it doesn't. Uh let let me there's bad data in there. I don't need to go into that here, but it throws out some data that shouldn't be in the report and some of the conclusions. Uh, and I'll make sure David has those. I can describe them to
you now or I'll make sure David has them. Um, a lot of the narrative in there is pretty inflammatory and and not representative of reality. Um but let's start with qualifications as an ecological restoration project because
one of the you know when when you're doing ecological restoration it should be ecological restoration not recreational restoration or perceptual restoration. It's got to be you know what is it about the ecology of the lake
which is going to be cured by the treatment. Okay. If you uh so one of the things you look at is utrification. is the lake utrified and will you know the treatment uh solve that? Uh TRC using
its data including one bad data point uh concludes that the uh the lake is in a utrophic state but if you use mass DP's criteria that they use in the uh in their uh bianual assessment of the water
bodies and rivers of the state it's it's fine. it it only it doesn't violate any of their criteria at all. And I'll send that data to to David. Uh I can go over all those criteria and the value if you have the TR TRC report with you. I could
go over that with you. But um the um where I think you'll run into a problem is you know being able to show the benefit of the treatment over the do
nothing case. Okay. Um if we get into chemicals, we're talking about wiping out virtually all of the plant life in the lake, which is a really drastic thing. Plants are ecosystem engineers in a lake. It's not
just that they produce oxygen. An interesting thing about oxygen. Stony Stonybrook inflow if you look at the TRC data was um in the summertime was below the D criteria. It was below five. It was three. It was really really bad. But
the oxygen in the lake was pretty healthy. Was 78 whatever. Uh that's because of the plants in the lake. We're oxygenating the lake even though the source of water or what we assume is the primary source of water to the lake had
virtually no oxygen in it. That's due to the plants. The plants are the superructure of the habitat of the lake. It's not just the lake bottom, but every single leaf surface, all the foliage surfaces are part of a the food web, the
ecology of the food web of the lake. Um starting off with bofilms or epipites which are bacterial and algal communities which are harvesting nutrients and dissolved organic matter uh from the water column. Uh and they
live right on the stems and the leaves of the plants and it doesn't matter if it's a non-native or a native plant. Uh and those things are harvested the bofilms are harvested by snails and macro invertebrates and fish herbiviverous fish. Okay. And that transforms that plant material uh based
on nutrients in the water column. And we have a phosphorus problem in uh in um uh in Freeman Lake. And it it incorporates those nutrients in that plant that that material into the food web into the food
chain capturing carbon etc. uh uh if you wipe out the plants, you're wiping out all of the habitat of virtually all of the macro invertebrates except for the benthic macro invertebrates uh in the lake. Okay, that
means you're not going to have food for the fish. Uh, a lot of those are aquatic insects which emerge. And if you were out on Freeman Lake last week, you would have seen the swallows, the swifts, the fly catchers swooping over the lake all the time, just feeding them even in the
the deep hole uh by the dam which is supposed to be anorobic. Yeah. So, so can we get to a point here? uh we the point okay so the point is uh it will be I believe it will be very hard to show
that there will be an effective benefit from wiping out the plant community for what might be two years and you know the the invasives are not going away okay they're they're just not I mean look at Hart Pond they're always coming back um
I will uh I'll wrap it up there um so you are talking about the chemicals That's that's my that was my point of order was it appears that your focus is on the chemicals which is really going to be the next well it's really right it's really the t don't take the TRC report as gospel it's got problems its
conclusions are wrong and I can demonstrate that so don't please don't base your order of conditions letting the um the harvesting go forward based on the TRC report okay thank you okay thank you
can I just comment on that yeah David, go ahead quickly. So, uh, Court Courtney could speak to this better than I can, and I'll let her respond if she wants to, but I believe in the notice of intent, it it specifically itemizes, you know, how how this satisfies the
requirements for a an ecological restoration limited project and what the specific benefits uh will be of removing the invasive vegetation. Am I correct, Courtney? Sure. Let me pull that up. I do have I do have some other information about
that. I don't know. You probably don't know know off the top of your head what page that is out of the 315. Yeah, I know. Um, so I'm just trying to see if I can find the exact language.
I think that this is the language and I do have um additional comment too, but um the objective of the project is to control invasive and nuisance species. Managing densities of invasive species will typically not adversely affect wildlife habitat and will not negatively
impact other interests of the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act. No significant alteration to wetland resource areas will occur as a result of the proposed management program. In fact, resource areas will be enhanced by controlling the nuisance plant growth in proposed management activities are consistent with the guidelines in the
following documents, which is the final generic environmental impact report, which I know they're working on a new one, but um the guidance for aquatic plant management in lakes and ponds and the practical guide to lake management in Massachusetts. Um mechanical harvesting techniques are propo are
techniques proposed are approved under the Massachusetts Environmental Protection Act process that was approved in 2004 with the inu issuance of the FGIR in the practical guide to lake and pond management in Massachusetts. Um these approaches do not require
individual MEPA review but also um just for the record I guess um no one is suggesting turning Freeman Lake into a swimming pool. None of our proposed activities want to remove all the vegetation from the lake. That is not
anyone's goal. The goal of both parts of the management plan is to just get rid of some of that excessive biomass. Um it was also reported which I mean you know we hired in response to back in 2002
when we first put brought this project forth 22. Oh yeah, sorry. 20 feels like 2002. 2022 when this, you know, first was this started. Um, you know, we listened to concerns from the abutters
from the community and that's what drove us to get the a third party experts at TRC to do this study. So even if that's not enough, we the people the people at TRC writing
the study, doing the study, they're the pond and lake management experts. There will be a representative from TRC at next um the next hearing when we're doing the more uh involved NOI. But it was told to me too by um the the scientist over there who's been in
charge of it that the bottom of the lake during the summer he said he didn't you know it's kind of a term that gets people you know feeling a sort of way so he didn't include it in the report but he said it would have been accurate to write in the report that the bottom of Freeman Lake during the summer is a dead
zone. there's less than 2 milligrams per liter of oxygen in like July and August in the bottom of that the lake in that summer. it. Um I you know I'm looking all we can do in managing anything like this is looking to the experts and working with the best available
knowledge we have available to us and according to TRCO they do not perform the treatments. They have no horse in this race. The pond is not healthy. It's in a utrophic state. And um moreover than that, you know, D and I believe
EPA, they define these invasive plants as an impairment to the lake, period. Like we could go into all the other negative impacts that come along with them. But reducing some of these invasives so more natives can get a threshold, give them a chance and have
them, you know, natives where there is competition is an improvement to the e ecology of the lake. They are an impairment these invasive plant growth that was running rampant at Freeman. So David, anymore?
No more comments. Um can I make one quick uh response? I'll give you I'll give you one quick response. Um the dead zone at the bottom of the lake is natural in all lakes of a depth of 20 25 uh feet. That's that's called the
hypolynon. it it uh is a matter of the temperature differential between the warmer upper water which is lighter and the colder denser water. So um and that is not the entire bottom of the lake.
That is 83% of the lake volume is is normally oxygenated. It's just like 15 17% in that hole. That's all I'll say. Okay. Thank you. Any other? My understanding is that lake isn't much more than 12 feet at any part anyways.
Okay. That's the average. Well, the deepest part is 26. The average is But the average is 26. No, no, no. Deepest is right. Right. That's That was my point. Yes, sir. You tried to get up twice, I think.
I need to move. I'm Allan BB, 28 Aberdine Road, North Chsford. So, I have a question about the beach area. Uh, how how far do the little buoys that you put out for the swim area extend?
Um, Quinton, can you come to the podium, please? Thank you. Um, I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of this the swim area. I'd have to look into that, but Okay. So, my my question is I right now I have some underwater video that I took the whole I've seen it you you shared
some of it in the past. Okay. Well, I have new footage of the beach area specifically um from kneedeep to waistdeep water and there's already a significant growth plus last year's die off. So the
question I have is what is the minimum depth that the eco harvester can handle? I I've been told that the eco harvester specifically can harvest in water as low as one foot. Okay. So, it can make it
can get pretty close to that. What's the maximum depth it could go to? I don't I'm not sure. It has a drum that rotates in front of it and pulls down. I think it could handle the 20 26, but I I'm Well, there's also not plants growing at
the 26 feet. So, no. No. I'm talking like 8 10 12 ft. Yeah, I think that it can handle the the the area where where the beach is. Well, and the other parts of the pond with excessive invasive growth as well or the lake, sorry.
So, the the point is this uh mechanical harvesting would be very beneficial for the swim area that the town has. Um, so I'm hoping uh I'm hoping that uh I can
get new footage after this first pass. So for the next session and the what is it the 23rd two weeks? Yeah. Um yeah. Well, we need to talk about will people will we the public be able to show
underwater video or other kind of footage of what the current status is? We could possibly we could consider it. Yeah. If if if you can email it to me. Well, these are like 10 gigabytes and can can you put them on? Yeah, we can
make arrangements to get them. CTM could load it. We can we can try to find a way to make that work. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. Um, so I'm not here to certainly rebuttal you. I just wanted to say that
one. Sorry. Can you I'm sorry. Karen Karen Crowdl. Thank you very much. New spilled again. 12 Mansfield Drive. Um, so growing up in lakes, I'm a rower. I've been in many different water um areas, but this is not a brand new treatment u or you know the to kind of
mow down the lakes. I'm kind of surprised that this town has not done it sooner. Um as far as recreational, I do live down here, so I don't swim up, you know, I don't have my kids up in Fremont Freeman Lake, but from what it sounds like, it's covered in seaweed. Again, New Jersey lakes were covered in seaweed
even though they still they they they would treat it just this way, but it always grows back. I grew up in the pond. Yes, my dad uses an herbicide. There's plenty of fish, huge fish in that in that little pond and it always grows back. So, there's definitely chemicals that don't kill everything off. I think it's long overdue. I think
we're kind of starting and you know, yeah, kind of good luck with it and if we don't spend tons and tons of money, but at least to get the swimming area from what I understand would be a wonderful thing. But that's all I can say. Uh Wanda Dunn, 60 Willis Drive. Um you were asking if I go on, just tell me
shut up. I'm done. Uh cdcede.com is what you were looking for for the name of the ecoh harvester machine. Um, so I I just wanted to ask Courtney, uh, for water wetlands, are we paying them to take out the water chestnut or
not? Um, we will be paying them to do a second round and we might be a short first round if we're not able to get it all around from that inlet area. um because we don't want to remove all the
vegetation on that inlet and I think it gets kind of marshy there is my understanding. So we might need um you know a day or half a day with them for that area and then we will need them for a second uh round after the seeds drop is the term I've been told. So later on
for additional handh harvesting of the water. Thank you. Okay. Um so I have questions. Obviously, I've been wanting an ecoh harvester machine to start uh to do the lake. Um who's going to determine whether the harvester works or not is
the first question. Is it going to be water and wetlands because you know they want to put herbicides in? I fragmentation is not um something that you should be you should be trying to sell this more
because fragmentation happens with every boat that goes out there with an electric motor with their propellers. It it's it's a given. I'm not going to go around and push for people to just start paddling going back to paddles and you know not having their electric motor. That that's not what I'm looking for.
But an eco-h harvester machine works so slowly and where you have people on their boats and their pontoon boats, you know, they're buzzing around the lake. They're doing the same thing. I've watched this lake for 40 years and like I had said in past meetings, the weeds
have not moved on the shoreline. Um, they are in the center of the lake, which TRC did not even determine in their report. So that's to me is like an unfinished report because they did not document any weeds at all through the middle of the lake. They only
concentrated on the shoreline which half of that shoreline is privately owned. So you've marked TRC marked two areas to get rid of uh weeds and two of them are privately owned. So, that should be off the table unless you talk to those
owners. Find out who they are and if they actually want the machine there or if they want herbicides there. Um, who's determining the highly used area? What are you basing that on, you know, for the eco-h harvester machine? I guess our push from people
that I've talked to is the center of the lake is the most prominent of the Eurasian mil foil with fan wart mixed in. So, I just want to keep that in mind. Um, and as far as cost an eco harvester machine, you didn't give us any cost of
how much. You said we only have them for 2 days. You didn't tell us what the cost is going to be. And I kind of would like to know that because the cost of herbicides, you're pushing the harvester machine, but yet you're saying the herbicides
that water and wetland's going to promote, you know, in a couple weeks. the cost for herbicides which you know from heart pond goes into thousands of dollars. I'm trying to look longterm where an ecoh harvester machine you can
start slowly getting the weeds that we need to attract you know to get out of the lake and then you can go to dash which is a driver a diver assisted that's cheaper. I'm trying to look at long term instead of every year like Hart Pond has I I've got the list. I've
talked to people at Harp Pond the thousands of dollars for every time they put in Daikqua. Every time they've they've put in uh they had to put in copper salt, you know, uh copper for cyano bacteria. That's eight,000 per time that they're putting
into that lake. You've approved 25,000 for them for this year for water and wetlands to do a study on that lake as well. So, if Hart Pond's getting 20 to $25,000 for this year, how much is, you know, how much is
Freeman Lake gonna get? So, I guess I'm trying to save the town money in the long run. I think Sorry, I I will stop there. Um, so um we've definitely done extensive,
you know, comparing of everything. uh the eco-h harvesters $5,000 a day to run. And if we're just using eco-h harvesting or mechanical harvesting, we will never get to a point where we can initiate dash, which is also very very
cost prohibitive in a in a lake this size because eco-h harvesting or any kind of mechanical harvesting is like cutting the grass. We will never make progressive steps that build year after year. Um, so we have similar budgets for Hart
Pond and Freeman Lake. This study that we did as a response to public input that started three years ago was over $60,000. So, um, $10,000 for EcoHarvester this year. Then
the money to create and submit two NOIs and have the TRC followup. Hopefully, we're able to do the um well, we will be doing the handh harvesting of a water chestnut. I believe that the budgets are
very very similar. Um and Hart Pond had the $60,000 study. Um on top of that, um were there what other did you have any other question that I'm missing? There's a lot.
Um TRC, did you ever ask them why they didn't um Yeah. So, um, it's really unknown, I guess, exactly why they didn't get show the weeds in the middle. I know that there was an administrative or some employee like one of the
employees that was running the project, he left for a different opportunity and so there was a handover there. But really in my opinion like we don't have you know it overall it's a very informative study more informative than
any other projects of this type you know it's more than what any other similar project I've ever heard of has done to to get information like this. Um, and what I hear
with what I hear from that is that there's more weeds than what the TRC report even reported. So, yeah, sure. I I'm not sure why that was missed or how that was missed, but it doesn't really change the big picture results, which
are that we hired uh water body experts to evaluate this um water body. And you know, everyone else wants to act like they're an expert, but you know, at the end of the day, we have I think the town has to
listen to the experts that we hired, the qualified experts who tell me who tell us, you know, um if we do nothing, this pond's just going to deteriorate worse and worse and Okay. You know, so any more questions from the commission? Any anyone else in the public? All right.
Oh, we do. We got one more. Hello, my name is Dylan Shank, 83 Willis Drive, and um I am in huge support of this project. I've lived on the lake my entire 19 years of living, and as I've
gotten older, it's just gotten worse. I I feel like when I was a kid, it wasn't as bad, and then something switched and it just got almost unusable. And I understand it's an ecology issue and not like a I can't figure out the word like
a residential issue, but to a point it does come to that. When you have a lake like this with residential nearby, it's a selling point. And if we want more people in Trump, if they come and tour these houses and see a lake filled with disgusting seaweed, no one's going to
want to live there. And not to mention, people come to Varnney Park and they go spend money at local businesses. if the lake's gross, no one's gonna want to come do that. And when the whole issue with Harpon, not issue, when the project with Harpon happened, I was like, "Oh, I really hope they come and do that for us
as well." And to hear that this project is actually in motion is really, really amazing to hear. And if anyone disagrees with the TRC report, I implore you to come out to Freeman Lake and swim across it and see how many times you get your
legs wrapped up by weeds. Um, it's an issue. it needs to be handled because it's getting unusable. Okay. And that is my statement. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming in. All right. Then I think we are complete. Mr. Chairman, I um move that we close the
hearing. Uh y so the hearing really has to be continued in my opinion because we have not received comments from D. Oh, correct. Right. Um and those you don't know how involved, how complex those are going to be. Um so the need to wait for
that. Um I also suggest that since um next week's meeting or next meeting is going to be devoted to the other notice of intent that this notice of intent be continued to the June 11th meeting because I think I think to have them
both in the same meeting I think potentially could go on for hours literally. Okay. So that would be does that how does that impact your schedule? And so ideally we'd be able we'd want the harvester out there mid June. So I don't know if
that's going to mess things up. I don't know if we're already talking about everything if we just rip the band-aid off or what or if we try to do the other one in June. But personally, Mr. Chair, I mean I'd like to move this thing. I don't see any opposition frankly to the
harvesting approach and I'd kind of like to get it going as soon as we can. So I know we've got as as Mr. Coons points out we do need to get those comments from D for sure but well then you then you certainly you can continue to the
next meeting but you know I think I think the whole meeting will be potentially devoted to but I don't want to do that. I absolutely do not want to rehash everything we did today again. So, I mean, if we come back next time, I'd like to just kind of do we have our D comments or not and not go through a
full, you know, hour or so of public input again because a lot of the comments tonight, frankly, we're really more focused, I think, towards the the issues around the chemicals uses, which is fine. I understand, and the report, but if we come back quickly, but that's again just my thoughts. David, do you do
you anticipate significant D comment? Well, I I don't want to get into into it too much now. Courtney is very uh familiar with the possibility and maybe again maybe she has has a better um sense of this than I do, but there's there's this question of whether it's
going to require a water quality certification permit from a D and and I gather that depends on the amount of um dredge material or you know plant material to be removed. Uh it's not it's
not needed if if it's under a 100 cubic yards. uh on the other hand that that's cumulative. You know, if it's 25 yards uh four years in a row, then it does hit that threshold. So, um maybe you can So,
yeah, I've done uh I've spoken with David Wong, who is in charge of that program. Um and I'm confident that the project will not disturb 100 cubic yards of soil. I've done calculations based off of, you know, best estimates.
um you know honestly if it gets triggered as a dredging project and they don't accept that then I don't know if we'd even have the resources to move forward with it. So, I don't know if it's worth just, you know, if we're able to close it contingent on the comments
or something or what whatever you want to do, but um I'm really confident that the comment will probably say confirm that this doesn't require this and we will be tracking just for management process of management, you know,
managing the project. But I am very confident that we will not hit that 100 cubic yard threshold. So, if I understand this right, if we continue it to the next meeting and the DP comments are minimal, we can probably close it
very quickly. I I would think so. I personally wouldn't see any. And if they're not, then we have a bigger problem anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Chris, do does that sound right to you and that maybe we do continue it until the next meeting? I would throw out my motion to close because we we can't do
that as Mr. Coons pointed out, but I would amend my motion to be a motion to continue to our next meeting of May 27th to allow the the D comments to come in. And if we have them, great. We can hopefully have a quick meeting on on a hearing on that and close it. If they're not in, well, then we're going to have
to kick it out. We'll have to like game time decision the week before or, you know, a few days before um depending on what we see. I I think that works for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. And um both NOIs were submitted similarly and they're the same
agent or the at D. Yeah. Whatever. So chances are I don't know. Fingers crossed it will be up. You know both of them or none of them. So why don't we I'll take a motion then to continue to the next meeting. Yeah. So moved. Motion from Chris. Second. Second from Bill.
All in favor? I I Okay. So the motion passes to continue the mechanical harvester hearing until next meeting on the 27th where we expect to also have the herbicide NOI as well. And um thank you thank you everyone for all your
inputs um and work on this. It's got a lot of attention in town. I know that and it's a it's a appreciate the time put in by everyone. Okay, next on our agenda, this is the Okay, this one's continued from April
8th. This is the NOI from George Allen and Sun Construction, Old Westford Road, Assessor's Parcel 38-129-1. Steven Dresser of Dresser Williams and Wayey is representing the applicant. Are they online, David, or
are they in the room? Uh, I don't see them. I don't see Mr. Dresser here. I certainly did not receive a request for a continuence that I know of. Let me Hey, excellent. Oh, there he is. Right
on queue. Good evening, sir. Good evening. Why don't you tell us about Let's see. Well, actually, um, David, do you want to set this up maybe? Sure. So, so the so the hearing uh was continued primarily for two reasons. uh one was to get a a peer
review of the wetland delineation uh which was done. Um we do not have the final report yet on that. Uh some changes I think some some you know significant in in the regulatory sense. Uh changes were made. Uh Steve can go go
into those. Uh we we do have uh online um Ron Strosel from uh Oxbow Associates who uh who did went was on site re reviewing the flagging. Uh I believe um the applicants consultant was uh also
participated in that. So my again Steve can go into this in more detail but my assumption is is that there is agreement now uh on both sides um to the wetland delineation. Um the other the other issue was the concern about about uh
flooding or potential flooding on the property um due to you know the past history of the area and that you know there's a water there's a watershed study being conduct conducted by uh the town's consultant Kleinfelter um uh for
uh flooding uh concerns in this area. Um the I I initially uh reached out to Kleinfelder asking them for a for a proposal to do um uh calculate the actual flood elevations for you know a
range of storms uh both both current and you know projected because that was that's you know the scope of their uh watershed study. uh after after a month I it took it it it took a month to um to
get that proposal in the meantime because of because of the delay I I had recommended to Steve that he he do those calculations which which he which he did do and I think he'll present those
tonight uh did did come up with a um an estimated I guess ex extreme you know flood elevation again I'll let him describe it. Uh so so I at at the time I recommended that he do that. I said then we'll we'll talk at this meeting tonight
whether or not the commission um wants to get that peer reviewed. Uh in in in the meantime um I I did request that Kleinfelder submit a proposal for a more typical peer review, you know, u of you
know data um and analysis that the applicant provides. So, I did just receive that today. Have not had a chance to forward that to uh to uh Steve yet. Um you know, something we'll have to talk about. It's it's
$6,500. Um in my opinion, peer review needs to be done, but we'll talk about it. Okay. So, um we're talking about both the uh wetlands delineation peer review that was done and so there were some changes based on that. Yes. in agreement and then this flooding
conditions, right? That's what was discussed. Yeah. Okay. So, I'll one other small item that we was part of the continuence was um doing test holes out there which which we have done. Um they showed the
groundwater was uh elevation 155. We're well above that, 4.7 ft above that. Sandy soils, pretty good soils there. So, no no concern for the infiltration system. Uh we did submit calculations regarding that um to the
engineering department and have applied for a storm water management permit as well. Um relative to the flood study we we we did you know a drainage study using TR55 which we would typically use for um say designing
detention basins and such. It's it's the base problem uh program. Um it's a technical release by the government that's used for hydrocad studies, those type of things. Uh the bottom line, what what the study shows is number one, yes, there's a upstream flooding problem
because it's a very significant area that goes into um you know, west of Davis Road into that um Culver. That cover's not size big enough. Although even with the amount of water that would go down, there would have to be increased in quite the size. Um, so it
showed that be some over topping, but on our property, as we kind of discussed at at the first meeting, you know, the limitation is going to be the elevation of Graniteville Road, and it can only go so high above um Graniteville Road down at the, you know, kind of the point of the triangle. Yep. So down in this area.
So So this this stream comes through here and then there's another 30inch cover out of there. And then it's rel the ground is relatively flat there. So it can only crest that road so high. So I I don't
know what a peer review is is is going to change on that. It goes over the road and then it's all downhill to that vast wetland that's down by Route Three. Uh there's a pipe system in that triangle. Uh as well as culverts that that run
down there. So I I I just don't honestly understand. Well, this blue line right here is is what you've determined to be I think what you're calling the the extreme flood elevation 155 ft. Is that that's what
it's saying? It's more Yeah. I I mean it showed. So So you get an elevation of like slightly below 155 at at the intersection of of kind of Graniteville and Old Westford where they come where they come together and then it's all
downhill from there. You just can't you can't produce enough water to you know where our nearest um activity is like elevation 157. you just you're just no matter how much water comes down there, you're not going to have over a twoft,
you know, crest above that road. You know, I I it's it's really that simple. So, I don't know what this study is going to going to do. I mean, and that's taken it to this 2070 extreme that, you know, we
shouldn't be held to that standard as it is. I I feel bad for the up upstream drainage issues, but they're there regardless of of what we do. You know, the other thing the flood study, the drain drain flood drainage study shows is, you know, with this vast area, this
3160, I think, square foot increase in impervious area just doesn't, you know, affect the calculations at all. So, so this and this, this is just obviously a m map. This this is what
um was uh determined um for uh that part in their in their draft study. Um Kleinfelter produced this. This is the property. So, you know, I I I just I don't have the expertise to say
whether this is consistent with what you produced. Um again, I just think it needs to be peer reviewed. I just think that's the way that the commission typically operates. Okay. How many time wait typically operates how many how many other two lot how many other single
family homes have been peer-reviewed for for 27 flood 270 flood study? This but this is a this is a different situation. So so there's nothing typical about it. So you can't make the comment like this is what we typically do because you don't you have never typically done a a
flood study for 2070 anywhere never mind for two single family homes. Well, we still have the right to do this. So I I'm not sure what how you how you undertake the right to do that. Your regulations are very specific about going referencing the wetland protection
act for bordering land subject to flooding. ordering land subject to flooding is very specific about how you determine that and that that's that's not even using that's way below the numbers that I even use for a typical 100redyear storm. They have they say use the TR55
calculations they say use seven inches of rain. We use eight for the 100 and almost 11 for the 27 storm. And again, nothing is going to change the the the cresting of Graniteville Road. you got to sit back and and honestly use some
common sense on So let's let's ask Do you have any more comment, David? Um I I the my only comment a couple of comments would be when I when I said you know what the the commission typically does peer review is when is when there appear to be illegitimate concerns for doing
so. Um if it doesn't matter whether whether it's a one lot, you know, house or two lots or you know it's a 100 lot subdivision. If it looks like there are legitimate reasons, you know, concerns for doing a peer review, then that's
what I meant. Why Why did you have my client spend the money to do a drainage study and then come in here and say, "Well, we got to do a review anyway." I mean, we we could have, you know, we were here five weeks ago. You you got to, you know, there needs to be some
expedience in this process. Well, I you know, I I I don't disagree with that. you know, I have no control over how long, uh, a, you know, a peer reviewer takes to respond. Um, that's why I, again, I recommended that you yourself do the study in. Okay. So, I do a study.
I'm a professional engineer. I show very clearly on 11 in of rain that this isn't going to crest within 2 feet of any of our our activity on on the site. So, you asked me to do it. I gave you
information showing that there's not flooding on the site and now you're just tossing that away. No, no, no. So, so, so, so you know, the peer, the peer, we'll see if the peer reviewer agrees with that, assuming the commission go goes with that. The other, the other
comment is is that you know, under the bylaw, the commission has the right to request a peer review. Again, if again, the bylaw does not reference a 2070 flood study or any of the mass resilient plan. The bylaw references the wetland
protection act when it comes to to bordering land subject to flooding. And the wetland protection act is very clear about how you determine that. It starts with FEMA flood plane, which there is no FEMA flood plane on the site. And and if there is a dispute, it says to do the
TR55 calculations. It doesn't say go to 2070 and have nuts and you get to your bylaw doesn't say you get to do whatever you want to do. your bylaw. No, my my my interpretation uh of the bylaw is and the and the associated regulations, you know, for for any
concerns that the commission has commission can, you know, can you cite can you cite the section that that tells that you have interpreted to say that? Um I I can I don't know whether you want to take the time. We're really kind of wrangling a lot here. Yeah, I was going
to say why don't we table this for the moment. Was were we going to talk also about the wetlands delineation and the impact of that? Um yes I think we should. So that a few change. Can you put the the plan back up? Yeah. Hold on.
So there were just a few changes. Uh only one really had a very sorry that's wrong plan. Yeah. So we added a flag here. U kind of removed the flag here. So, we dot the dot there and we remove
that flag. Dot the dot there. There are a couple other flags over here in the field that get added that really don't near the development area. Um, so the one this flag 56A1 kind of changed the projection of
that. That was prior to that that was 51 feet from the um corner of the house and now we're at 42 and a half feet. So we've requested a waiver to that. Um just keeping in mind that existing barn is there. So you know we we're asking
for a waiver to kind of cut off because just this corner here is 64 square ft. That falls entirely within the area of where that barn that we're taking down. Uh the barn is I think 23 32 square feet of that is within um the no building
zone and it's six feet from the wetlands. So our project, you know, when we take the barn out of that inner buffer zone and we replace it. So we we have a significant increase in, you know, environmental benefit to that to
taking that barn out. We're having, you know, the drainage from the house goes into a gutter system, gets recharged. It's not a direct runoff into the wetlands. Um, so it's really not a
significant request, I think, just because it's, you know, it's not the whole building that's 42, it's just the corner. And obviously, we're replacing a barn that's that's much more um, you know, closer to the wetlands, doesn't have drainage, uh, doesn't have gutters,
all the runoff goes right into it. So, we've kind of asked for a waiver to that. Uh as part of that move too uh we would have to change the property lines because of the heat contiguous wet uh upland. So we just have we need to tweak
tweak these lines a little bit. We'd have to go back to the planning board for an approval not required plan. Uh really it's kind of a paper change. It doesn't really affect this is the parcels between the two the two lots. Yeah. Just Yeah. Yeah. We just have to add a little bit of area to the to the
lot on the right. a little bit of up contiguous upland area because we lost some. So that's where we stand. You know, it's just two single family houses. Um so fairly typical other than you you
undertook a a 2070 flood study in the area and some were kind of caught in that. Um Okay. I I I wouldn't say, you know, my flood study isn't what Kleinfelt is doing. I'm not, you know, I'm just I
don't have the resources. We don't have the, you know, we won't want to go out and do everything that they're doing. I did a kind of a drainage study and use some online stuff really just to show that, hey, this road, what we've been talking about, this road just doesn't is never going to crest by two feet. I
mean, you can go out there and and stand there. The thing is flat. It's all downhill on the other side of it. It's it's, you know, so I don't know what gets peer reviewed. They're going to look at my study and say it's not as good as their study. They're going to be right, but nothing's ever going to top
that road by by three feet. If they're if they come back with that, then I guess I'll be peer reviewing them because I I don't know how that would happen. Okay, David. So, so um just just a couple of things going back to the the
peer review of the wetland delineation. Um, so Ron, are you there? Yes, mayor. So, so is any anything you want to mention um that hasn't been uh mentioned so far on the uh the review of the wetland delineation?
Uh I I mostly agree with uh the locations of the flags. U we did make the couple adjustments in the field. Uh they appear to be correct on on this updated plan. Um, and I did have a couple other clerical things that I
noticed in the notice of intent that really don't change a whole bunch, but I figure I'd mention them just if the commission decides uh they want to discuss them. Um, the USGS map that's provided is actually not a USGS uh topo
map. Um, so it doesn't show this it wouldn't show whether the stream is perennial or not or intermittent for that matter. Um but on an actual USGS too map uh the stream is not shown on the plan and actually stream stats shows
it in the wrong location. Um but both of those indicate that it that it is intermittent. Um the Norris letter referenced the FEMA zone A and I understand we've been discussing the flood plane uh right now and I was just going to request that it gets added to
the plan but it looks like uh Steve has done that at this time at least with his calculations. Um, the Abutter's notice references that the legal notice was being published in the Eagle Independent, but the legal notice from
the town says that it's being published in the Chelmsford Independent. I don't know if that's the same newspaper, but there should just be some clarification of where that actually is published uh or was published. Neither one. It was a local son.
Okay. So, so yeah, none of those are accurate and should be updated, I guess. Um, uh, Steve mentioned that there's test pit data. So, uh, if the commission w wants to review that, um, I've
recommended it just to see if, um, the infiltration system soils are are, uh, able to well, I know Steve's done the calculations, but, um, see if that the soils match the the those mentioned in the north letter.
Um I had thought to ask uh for the commission's sake the quantity of imperous surface uh for comparison uh between the existing I Steve just said that 2330 square ft is the barn um but
we don't really have an idea of what the or I don't have I saw there was 1540 ft for each house but I don't know if that includes the driveways or not cuz they're in the buffer zone. Um and it just would be I think useful for the commission to have that information just
as a comparison. Um DP requested that there's some sort of planting plan or restoration plan for the the 25- ft area that's currently uh over the barn currently exists over um and they ask
for native plants to be installed or as part of the restoration plan. Um, in that same area right adjacent to the barn, uh, we did notice some tires that were discarded in a in a pile there. I would recommend that those tires are
removed, um, as part of the restoration process. And possibly included in that planting plan is some sort of invasive management plan. Um, along the north side of the property, there's a there's a large Japanese nawweed infestation.
And I did notice some uh some bittersweet and um uh autumn olive while we were out there. Uh that could just be addressed with some herbicide. Um south of Old Westford Road, there's a
there's a wetland that we hadn't I I had brought the attention to the to the applicant. Um, I understand that there's no access to that property. Um, but it is listed as a potential vernal pool.
Um, and it I believe that it it would still project a buffer zone onto the property which may affect the eastern driveway or at least encompass part of the eastern driveway that may not be within buffer zone right now. Um, it
really wouldn't change anything. It's on the opposite side of the road, but um it would increase the amount of impervious that would be within buffer zone. Um then then the last or one of the last things for regarding the the vernal pool
if it we didn't inspect it. Obviously, we didn't have access to the property. Um, so we don't actually know if it's a vernal pool or not, but just in case that it is, I recommend there's there's a couple um storm drains that are located uh further east down. I think
it's Old Westford Road is the is that the southern one? Um, and there should be some silt sacks placed in there um during construction just to capture anything. And I'm not sure if those catch basins drain
directly towards the stream or if they go towards that that uh vernal pool, but um if they do go towards either, it would be nice to have some type of containment from any any sediment that managed to evade the uh erosion control
and end up on the on the street. Um and then just lastly, uh the certified or certificate of mailings. I don't know if the commission has received um that they were sent. So, that should just be verified. And um
fencing the the bylaw mentions fencing a wall or some type of permanent marker along the 25T buffer. Um, I think the I I can't the I'm unfortunately using my phone right now, so the the plan is very
tiny, but um I would just recommend that those get added to the plan before final final draft. And I I I apologize for not having the report out uh before this meeting. It was just a hectic couple days. And I I will have an update, a
formal report for the commission um hopefully by the end of the week. Thank you, Ryan. That's all I have. Okay. Thank you. Um just just uh one more thing I'll add. So So um the waiver um the requested waiver is to the 50
foot no build um setback from wetlands. Since I've been on since I've been here um in Townsford, I've never known the commission to wave that um uh requirement um for entirely new
construction. So, I I just in my opinion, I think there needs to be a really good reason to grant that waiver. Okay. All right. Um, we'll start with the commission to ask
questions. John, you want to start us off? What are you requesting a peer review for? um for the um the review of the flood elevations that uh Mr. Dresser has um
calculated. Uh that's the big flood study that the the town made, right? Uh no, it's it it was more specific than that. Um so it it is I'm just reading here. It is the intent of this study to
show that the proposed two single family dwelling dwellings will not affect current flooding elevations for the 2-year, 10-year, 25 year and 100year storms as well as projected 2070 rainfall data uh at the extreme limits
of range. So just very specific as asked him to calculate those elevations. Um, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Steve, I think he came back and said, "Well, this is this is this is the he calculated the maximum for what the greatest of those
ever would be." Um, so I'm I'm simply uh recommending that those values be peer-reviewed and whe whether to determine whether there's agreement with what he has calculated.
I I don't know how they're going to spend $6,500 on that. You know, we had a wetland review. You first came back with a guy wanted $7,500 to do a wetland review. You're asking, but $6,500 for something that, you know, I'm probably going to charge $1,000 for. It probably
took me, you know, six hours to do. I can bring up the proposal, and I haven't had a chance. I just I mean, there aren't any real standards here. You're asking somebody to review something that that I've designed without any kind of real standards. I I'm just using
information from the internet. It's not the point only is and only is that that road is not going to flood over. Floods just don't work that way. When when high water hits a road, it goes over the road. It's downhill on the other side.
It goes Let's let John continue. Yeah. I I was just trying to wrap my head around this peer review for for that. I I I don't know. I
Anything else? Now, sometimes I don't I think this is a two lot subdivision, you know, and I don't know if a peer review could be done for $1,000, that's
acceptable. But $67,000 is I think it's unacceptable in a way. That's my opinion. But now you're going for a waiver, too. There's no way to move that house at all.
We we we could make the house smaller, but it would be detrimental to us to have to do that. Yeah, we can we can cut an angle there. I'm not sure ultimately what we accomplish environmentally other than, you
know, not granting us a waiver, I think. Is it a is there a special circumstance? I think the special circumstance that probably sets it apart from just coming out and clearing is that there there's already a barn there where where this impervious area there's already
impervious area there. Uh we'll provide restoration where the barn is if that's what DP want. I didn't I didn't pick up on that. So you're going to end up with a better environmental situation when these two houses are built than than what's there now. That's for sure.
And who moved the flag? Who delineiated the north? Norris delineated it. We we met with Oxbow and I I I was on site and we did more augur points. You know, they they agreed upon it. Norse and Oxbow.
Okay. So, that was we're all we're all in agreement on that. I didn't realize it was going to be a full notice of intent review. I thought it was just a wetland line review. Um, so hopefully Oxbow puts all that stuff in the report because it went pretty quick. Yeah. But
nothing he said there was is not something that we we can we can do. It's it's fine. Okay. All right. Bill has Okay, Bill. Um, yeah. Okay. So, the 50 foot waiver is the only waiver they're looking for, right? I believe
so. Okay. Um, and the way you've got it, you figure it's 7 and 12 ft. It's closer. So, you're 42 and a half right on a triangle. So, it's only And the barn goes right
now. The barn goes almost what 7 ft close six feet on the wetland to the wetlands to the new wetlands line, right? Yes. Yeah. So, we really don't like to if you can move any you can't jock move that house
a little bit or do anything to stay out of the 50 foot. No, not with the same side. We can we can make the house smaller. We can that's the only way you can you're right up against the setbacks from the street. Correct. Yeah. I mean, you do have a 40 ft. So, yeah. Not
really common town to town, but that's what it is, right? And how how how deep's the house front to back at that point? Uh I think it's 20 28 28 24 28 at that point there on the garage side the
gable end of the garage 24 20 24 on that. Uh, one thing we can probably do is, you know, we don't like to do it, but if we had to bump that forward, you know, honestly, the bumps there for aesthetics, right? It's 26. Actually, I'll tell you, if you can move it, we
could probably come in straight, put the garage down to 24 much of a problem, but it's not. It'll it'll bump your head four feet. So, you're still within the still going to be within 50. We're not going to get out
of there, but you can probably do that. The house won't look as nice, but we can do it, right? Um the area that's down on the other side of the brook to the Granville roadside.
Yeah. Is there any work right now? It it's cut with a brush hog or something it looks like. Is that m going to be maintained in any way or is that just going to let grow? No, I think it would just be let go. Okay. And who owns the easement? The drain easement to the town
county town council has the rights to that easement. It's owned by Does that does that have to be maintained any certain way? Does that have to be cut or uh if it is it would be the town who's been who would probably have that responsibility since it's their easement. But I say it's it's not
something that needs to maintain. It flows pretty good. It's a it's a good looking stream. I mean on the sides of it, do you need to cut anything or is that just going to leave that alone? Right. It's on my record. Maybe Ron might want to pop pipe pipe in or what he saw, but I Yeah, I don't think it's No, we we we don't have to do it
currently. And in your plan from the brook to the house to the back of the house in the 25 no build area. Do you anticipate putting any trying any lawn in that area? You're going to let it grow naturally or what's the Well, we
were we intended to let it grow naturally, but it sounds like D has piped in looking for some restoration planning. Well, restoration, but I mean the rest of the area, the rest of it, you know, there's a limit of work where the um where the straws will go, right?
So, everything behind there would just Yeah. I just I wouldn't want to see anything cut from the 25 foot to the brook is it turn into a lawn at some some point down the road. Yeah. Well, I I think what Ron mentioned, I I wasn't aware. I didn't see it, but I guess if
we put a visual barrier at the 25 foot mark, you know, where limited work is, you know, in perpetuity. I don't know if it's typical in this town, but sometimes put we'll put signage on the fence that says, people do different things. They put blueberry bushes or rocks. Uh okay.
Whatever some kind of barrier so people know the house is sold. There can be options in the order. Different options. So um certainly that makes sense. What's that? That that makes sense. And you said you did the uh deep the deep holes for the where the where did you do them?
Did you do them right where the pits are? Yeah, that kind of crosshatch thing there is a pit is where we did that one. That one's okay. So from the water where you found the water to the bottom of that pit. Yeah. Is how much? 4.7 ft.
Okay. So you're fine with that? Yeah. They they basically because of the grade that we have to do to build the house, you know, those systems are, you know, right under the top soil top and subs soil comes out. System goes in fill over more than anything. Yeah. I I'd like to see you out of the 50
foot because as we try to maintain that waiver, I mean that uh the 50 foot no build. Um so if there's anything you can do with that, I'm not asking you to answer that now, but that's my opinion. As far as the peer review, the $6,500 peer
review, I'm against that peer review. When I at the last meeting, I was interested in Kleinfeld maybe coming up with a they did a lot of work on that area. They should know that like the back of their hand to the point where they don't have to charge $6,500
to re to tell us whether or not these two lots are going to affect any or any flooding is going to affect these two houses. I would love to see I would love to see what they have. I get, you know, all that's all that's been provided to me is that that one
view that was put up on the screen. I don't know what they've done already. Have they done all this? 30 hours at 200 bucks an hour, 200 plus an hour. Something that to come up with this blue. I'm not in favor of that. If like
John said, if it was a re a reasonable amount and somebody gave us some information, it would be benefit to us. But for 6,500, that's just that's crazy. That's that's wasted money for no good reason where you've done the
calculations. You know, you can go out there and look at the site and and and determine that it's not going to affect those houses if that if that ever flooded out. So, I'm against any of that peer review. Thank you. That's my opinion. Mark, I'm going to emulate a
lot what's already been said. I'm I'm not concerned about that information that that was done. That's that's town information, right? That that's available to the public. Correct. What Klein? Yeah. Yes. Is it? Uh it is. Um I don't know. I don't know if the
final u uh draft of the report is out yet or not. And I don't know to what extent they go into, you know, actual calculations in the report. I can I can certainly ask about that. So So you don't you don't have access to that stuff. I was not provided access to what they have. The only thing I was given
when I was asked was that map that was put up there with the blue line on it. I'm I'm having a problem too, Dave. I hate to go against what you you recommending, but I I know the area pretty well. I I know the elevations. I know you you're
you're expressing what it can happen. You can't have the big overflow there on the road because But I I am concerned about what Billy and and and John brought up. I I don't really care if you have a hard time getting the house in there, but you can't use that design. M
make it something that brings it back on the right corner to get your square footage in there. I I don't really care about that, but I'm not going to approve it to go beyond the 50 foot. Understood. Thank you, I appreciate that. I appreciate the input. Thank you.
Thanks, Mark. Uh Mr. Mr. Chair, I agree with my colleagues, you know, John, Bill, Mark, I agree with what they said. Okay. Um, what I what I could do, um, I I can't guarantee they'll respond, but but if if you you know, I can forward you the
proposal. You could you could some of your comments on that. I can ask Kleinfelder if they can get it get it down, get the cost down, you know. Um, can we share what they've done? You know, I can I can certainly ask. Okay. I I can certainly ask about what they've done in terms of the big project, the
big I thought that was out there. Um well, LA last I was told that the final draft is not yet public information. That may have changed. Okay. Uh so, you know, I can ask, you know, I I I can certainly send the the draft I have. I
just don't think there's really I think what you're looking for is actual calculations. No, I'm I'm I'm actually looking for something that even if it's a draft that shows that the road's not going to flood by three feet there. I I can't imagine anything they've done
doesn't show that. Can we get permission to share that with him? Uh I don't see why not. I can certainly ask if you ask that. But the other thing I I I'm listening to my colleagues here on the commission and I don't imagine they're going to go from 6,500 down to
you know, maybe 5,500, but that's still they they may not. Yeah. I may not They may not even respond. Yeah. You know, they may say, you know, that's that that's our price. Yeah. So,
um I Yeah, I'm kind of along with them. I I thought it was a really good opportunity that we had this town flood study at the same time. I'm just very disappointed in the in the price tag that they're attaching to what I would consider to be two hours of work and you
know and it's just it's extraordinary what the number that they came back with. It's it's just and I I have to say um if we assume all of his calculations are even close then it's it's not really
close I think. Am I am I hearing that right? Yeah. I mean, that's even if he's made some mistakes in his calculations, it's not magnitudes. So, I'm having trouble with that. So, but we still have the the waiver. And so, I'm also in agreement. I don't want to give up on
the waiver. We don't do that unless there's a real hardship. And I'm I'm in agreement. I think I was hearing that from everyone here. So, then if we say that, then do we have an adjustment that you have to make to y to do that? And
then we continue to review continue the meeting so you come back. I think I would like to get um Oxbow's report. Okay. Um review what he says, make those changes, get them in public record before you would close the meeting and Okay. Ron, do you know when you'll get
the report to us? Uh I'm hoping to have it by the end of the week. If not, it'll be before mid next week. Okay. Because timing wise, our next meeting is two weeks from tonight. And as you may have heard, we we have uh some other topics, the lake
uh review and um we need David really needs to have the information by next Wednesday. Yeah, that's the that's our that's our day. I appreciate No problem. I I heard it went fast. I heard I'm sorry, Ron. It's It's on recording, too,
so you can go back. I can go back and look. I've heard most of it and I can I can certainly change the house size. I can certainly add the plantings. I can So that's I'm sorry that's in the restoration plan. Yeah. Yeah. That area.
So what I'm trying to do is for the next meeting have every have your your plan with the with the uh building. So we're out of the 50 get your restoration plan. What else do we need to move this thing forward? I would I I would I would just
uh request to put some kind of delineation on the plan to show some kind of a permanent uh marking of the 25 ft not. You don't have to get specific, but just show that on the plan schematically. Okay. Then I guess I'll
take a motion to continue the meeting. We don't need to take any more public comment at this point, do we? Um yeah, we can. Yeah. All right. We'll take public comment if anybody wants to get up and uh make a comment on this particular application. Okay, I see nothing. So,
chairman, I move then we continue this public hearing until our next meeting of May 27th, 2012. May 27th. Motion from Chris. Second from uh Bill. Thank you very much. Uh all in favor? I. So motion passes unanimous. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming in.
Thank you. Break it out. We're going to take a three minute break. Uh, we need a threem minute break. Little bio break for everybody. Bio break. Bio break. and we will start up the meeting
again. We are moving right along here. Thank you very much. Um, appreciate everybody's patience and um, we still have a bit of stuff to cover, but I think we will be not here too much too late tonight. So, next thing in our list here is the in the discussion section,
the designation of two commission members to serve on the committee for phase 2 LI. This is low impact design. This is a nature-based solutions guide book. There's a committee that's being formed. David, I'll let you talk about it. Peter has talked about this. He's not here. Peter has much more knowledge
about this than I do. Um, and I don't know if Chris is still here. He may have some as well. But yeah, I think it's I I think it's it's it's I I don't think it's the purpose is necessarily to rise to the level of new regulations. Um and I think it's I think
it's um proposed to uh be applied mainly to redevelopment. Um but you know, it's it's it's a guide. It's um you know, guidelines. Um so uh I'm and I'm going to be part of the task force as well,
you know, staff. So Peter Peter has indicated that he's willing to participate. So okay, you know, the request the request uh is for two commission members. I don't know if anyone else is interested. Anybody else uh on here want to be participating in
this or willing to have Peter and we all know Peter he's not here so he's automatic but he he volunteered. He wants to be. So um I'm I am not going to volunteer. I often do for these things, but I'm I've just got too much
on my plate and I'm not going to take it on. But I'm willing if anybody else, but I'm not seeing anybody raising hand. So, we'll I think Peter and David can handle it. Yeah, I think Yeah, David David is going to be there. Um and uh you'll be you'll be well served with Peter. Yeah, I'm sure we'll be well served. Okay. So, we'll make that a decision that we're
going forward with one commission member on this uh I don't know how long this will be. A couple months or something uh this committee or uh I I don't know. We'll see. All right. We'll find out. I don't know how often the meetings will be, but get Okay, good. Um, next on our
agenda is um, so do we have to notify somebody? Notify Evan. Yeah, Evan, I'll let him know. Okay, you just let Evan know. Thank you. And we have an update from the wetland bylaw and regulation review subcommittee. That's Peter, Chris, and I. And Chris, and David's
participating as well. And so Chris, you had a short update. We're just kind of getting a directional update, right? Sure. Yeah, I'll just keep it short. I mean, we we met on May 6th. Uh the meeting went about an hour and a half. Uh we spent, you know, detail really basically taking the standard
Massachusetts uh association of conservation commissioners standard recommended bylaw. It's been adopted in many many towns throughout the Commonwealth. We took their latest version. And what we did was really went and took our bylaw that's about at least 15 years old that
was passed by town meeting number of years ago. We took that bylaw and really went from the preamble right through the document. Took us about an hour and a half just to see what might be missing or you know see if we had you know we're how we matched up and were there
possible areas for improvement maybe some things we could adjust. I mean overall we actually were in pretty good shape when we compared us against the standard MACC uh document but there were a few areas that we wanted to have some further followup on and take a little bit of look and I can just highlight
some of those. uh for example um there was a reference in the MAC standard about protecting intermittent streams. So that's something you know we cover the perennial streams but that seemed to be missing from our bylaw. So we want to do a followup around that. That's that's one item to make sure we perhaps cover
the intermittent streams which have an important function for the environment and the habitat and the wildlife. Uh that was one area. We also um we t we wanted to take a look at the um the the rare species habitat. I mean we we have
jurisdiction you know up to our our buffer zones 100 foot buffer zone but there would be value in having projects come into us to have when they come in to present to us go beyond that buffer zone and give us more information about the the rare species where they're you know migrating what's happening with
them. It could help us make better decisions. So we wanted to take a look at that rare species habitat. Not expanding the buffer for them but just kind of getting more information that might influence our decision. So that was one area. Uh let's see question came
up around the we have this um uh we have our setbacks under our bylaw which is similar to many communities where um um we really discourage having buildings within 50 feet of the wetlands line of streams of brooks the wetlands
itself. So, we have a tough bylaw that says that you can't have a building within 50 ft. And over, you know, the many years that we've been on here, I mean, I've been I've had multiple terms here, but it's really rare, very rare. It goes 10, 15 years sometimes before we
wave um that and and we actually look really carefully at the situation around the hardship involved and can the applicant move typically a building you know a few feet to keep it away from um the you know the very important habitat again it is I mean once the building
goes there it's there forever I mean it's not you know it's nothing we can really do so we've kind of and it's uh and we know scientifically that that area is really very important for the species um and and everything that goes on that that area right where and you can check you know your own backyards
and that type of thing but you'll see the wildlife that's out there right in that transition area. Um, one of the like kind of exceptions or kind of ways sometimes um, uh, projects go forward is that we've in the past had like an exception for small
lots like lots sizes are under 40,000. And so many years ago, I think we felt the commission at the time was that we wanted like the kind of, you know, small lots and neighborhoods that were typically older neighborhoods in Chelmsford. we we kind of felt were sympathetic to the the the uh you know
the people that own those properties and and and some had lots that would been you know in the family for a long time. So we we kind of exempted that that uh and so occasionally have a project come through. It's on one of those old lots that's been around forever and we've grandfathered that in. So the question
to commission is with this new commission whether we want to take a look at that exception or not, leave it or not. I I don't think we had any consensus among the people meeting at at whether we wanted to change that or not, but it was something we were looking at. Uh also, uh one of the things too is the
lawns. A lot of times we have projects come in and they're looking to put their lawns kind of right up as far as they can to the edge of the wetlands lines. And we know that again scientifically and for the environment, the habitat, and the animals that having those beautiful green lawns like look great
aesthetically, but they're really not that great for the environment. So, we wanted to see if we could come up maybe with some and maybe it's guidelines, maybe it's in our regulations, but maybe there's something we can do to discourage having those lawns going right up to the edge of the resource area. So, we talked about lawn setback
possibly. Uh, another area that we had was that there's a potential for a developer to come in and take like a very small home uh or structure. Yeah. And and say, "Hey, I'm only doing an addition. We're just adding on." And
we've had some projects come in that were, you know, a very small, like, you know, 400 foot cabin, so to speak. And they're coming in and creating a building that's like 10 times bigger than that structure, but they're saying, "Baja, you know, we have a loophole here
under your bylaws. We're we're like legally entitled to do that." So, we wanted to take a look at that addition and maybe there's some wording we can do around that. So we looked at that and then actually hardship came up and you know because in order for us to wave any of these setbacks we have to find
hardship and hardship's kind of like in the eye of the beholder. What is a hardship? Was it just financial? Is it you know more than financial and so we were thinking of probably going to town council. We have a new uh you know law firm and maybe get some guidance around what hardship is legally what's enforceable these days with legal
precedent. So took a look at hardship might be something we want to look into a little bit more. And that's kind of um you know those are kind of some of the some of it. I mean I think the next steps are is we'd probably have another meeting of again you know the team Peter myself David
right Carl and just look at look at regulations because if we can maybe make some changes in the regulations that's a simpler approach where as long as the regulations are relatively consistent to our bylaw and don't conflict with the bylaw we can make changes in our regulations. We'd have to have a public
hearing get input from the public. We can't go change our regulations without having a public hearing and public input. But maybe we want to change those regulations and fine-tune them a bit. U again to do that, we'd have to have a, you know, a vote of the commissioners in a public hearing environment, but we
wouldn't necessarily have to go back as we would with a bylaw and have to go to the full tile meeting and then also have the attorney general approve any changes, which is a pretty arduous path. So that's where we're at. We'll probably have one more meeting of the subcommittee to look at this the issues from a regul regulation perspective and
then come back to the full commission and present some recommendations possibly some changes. But that's kind of where we're at. Carl, thank you Chris. Yeah, this was intended to be kind of a general directional thing to you guys and if you're if you have a reaction that says it sounds like you're on track or we're way off track or I
think I think we're on track. And I actually since the meeting actually c thought of a couple of other areas we could look at as well which talk about at the next meeting. Okay. Okay. I think you're on the right track Chris. I think and uh incorporating any changes in the regulations be the way to go. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. If we did make a recommendation for bylaw change it better be worth it because it's that's a big it doesn't sound like the things you're talking about in mind. I'm not sensing that yet but I won't say that yet. I don't know. We we still have some discussion to go through. Yeah. Yeah.
Anyway, quick update. Thank you very much, Chris. Good good update. Update now on the Freeman. Speaking of Freeman Lake, update on the Freeman Lake parcel boundary surveys. Uh, really really nothing new um since I last reported on it. Again, I'm just
very soon I'll be uh asking the surveyor for a proposal to um put in those granite bound markers at the locations we talked about. also going to uh ask the uh the fence company for an estimate
to put in the uh a split split rail fence what we talked about at that at that one boundary. Okay. Of that one parcel on Willis Drive. Yeah. As a general reminder of what this is, we have a number of parcels that are at the care custody and control of the
conservation commission that are on the edge of uh Freeman Lake, multiple parcels. And we've had many u legitimate complaints of people uh in uh encroaching on those properties. And we've had lots of questions of where
exactly our lines are. And so we've been it's very been very slow, but we're getting there. We're making progress and we're we're getting to the point that we're able to really know where those boundaries are. We've had the surveying done and now we're going to get boundary marks put in and we will this year uh
towards the end of the year we'll be becoming more um visible and strict about about that trying to take care of you know guarding our our land. We we just have to wait till he gets more money first. Yep. Yeah. We're It's not free. It's not free but we have a plan.
So, uh, and we appreciate the pushing that we've got from the public on this. Um, it's it's it's helpful for us to to move forward. Next up, we do have a presentation here from one of our, uh, guests in the room. Uh, this is the next
item is we moved you up, uh, Mr. Sperry. So, this topic was a big topic for us during the open space and recreation plan committee that we completed at the end of this past year. and we made the
plans submitted to the state and a big chunk of that was ADA trails and now Dave has a quick update on a meeting that he attended last week. Right. Uh with a change of administrations, uh they've kind of changed the philosophy for open space
trails. Uh so what we have in the OSRP, even though it's only six months old, is out at eight. Uh but I think it's for the good actually. So the new initiative is to make trails universally access accessible and what's on the chart is
the boiler plate that they gave us uh at a the first meeting that they've had uh and they want to get all the stakeholders together to to really implement a universal type trail and I'll get into more details on that shortly. Uh the big thing here is
there's a forum last week which I attended. You can go to the next slide. Uh okay, which is quote unquote a listening session uh done over Zoom uh two hours long. Uh and what they're
trying to address is there are more issues than just wheelchair access when it comes to ADA. There's a whole spectrum, okay, that we want to address. And that's uh anybody with mobility issues, okay, start going
from uh a wheelchair be to where somebody's in rehab like me, okay, with a knee where yeah, I can I can hobble around and I want to be able to get out there onto the trails, uh but I can only go so far. they they
want to make sure that you can get out there and and challenge yourself too. Uh so the big takeaways on that were that a quarter of the population has some kind of disability in their lifestyle. Okay?
And that uh that that could be mobility, visual, auditory, cognitive. Uh and then 44% of the adults over 65 are reporting some kind of impairment also. Uh and that
population amount is going to grow in Massachusetts uh in the short term. So go ahead to the next slide. Uh okay, simply they gave us a 30-minute overview presentation. Then they broke us into small groups for 60 minutes. uh and then
came back together for a summary. Uh my breakout uh session paired in trail users with various disabilities. We had a blind person, a person with epilepsy, a person with knee problems, and a
wheelchair person. We had a person from the Autobon DCS and New England Botanical Garden. And and we just went around talking about our experiences. Me as a trail designer, I got to actually talk to end users to to see their
particular uh issues firsthand as opposed to reading a guideline from the US Forest Service. Okay, next slide. Uh so what they're really asking for uh the first number one was public
transportation to a trail site. That's a little hard for us because we don't have bus stops near our trail heads. But the big thing that's new uh is the ride share apps which a lot of these people use will only take you to places
that have addresses that are in their system. So we have to make sure that our trail heads that we make more mobility friendly actually show up in the Uber andyft apps so people can get to them.
Uh and then the other things they wanted were century rich environments. Uh they actually wanted to feel some of the the soil under their their feet. Uh they wanted leaves in a little bit. Okay. They they wanted to be
in nature. Uh they wanted to be away from the noise, cars, people. Okay. All the experiences you you typically expect. Uh and then uh the big thing also
was exercise and health focused trails uh for the re rehabilitation. Okay. If you have a thousand foot uh old fire road, okay, yeah, that can be traveled, okay,
without a wheelchair, but you can do it carefully. uh but you may need to rest every so many hundred feet and you want to be able to do that because that's part of your exercise regimen. So judiciously placed benches or places to rest are important in our design. So
we'll be cranking that into our plans. Uh the other thing they were interested in was okay trails of various difficulties. So if we take the cranberry bog that starts out with a really nice flat road going in and we
put a few benches in there and then after you get to the dam it gets more and more difficult. That's reasonable. We just have to plan it out and we have to say oh you can get this far with this level things then you're going to hit some roots. Okay. So they want that
information easily accessible. So either on the website or on the kiosk or both or both. They were not the the users were not that hip about QR codes.
Uh that uh a lot of people don't want to use their phones for that particular thing. And people want to know what's the trail before they go out there. And for some trails, you may want to say, "Oh, if you had a big rain, there will
be puddles." Okay, so it's more important to get what the conditions are before the person goes out there to experience it. Uh, okay, next slide. Okay, so just to wrap up, uh, we've got to update some of our plans
for, uh, the new trails and what priorities we're going to go for. the first ones we try to update. Uh, and when we're redoing the maps, which we'll hear about shortly, include some of the the surface information in there. Uh,
and then like you've heard before, we've got a small project on tap. And then with these benches and signage and amenities on the trails, we just have to identify them and find the scouts and other volunteer groups to do that little package.
Uh so and then basically publicize what we've done and how far we've gotten. Okay. So that that was the gist of things. So the big thing is not just pure wheelchair access.
It's full, think of a rehab situation where you got the full spectrum of walking but need to rest to wanting to have some obstacles in there to to practice getting around while being out in the the environment. You forgot to mention the the bench for
waiting for Uber. Oh, thanks. Uh the other thing that uh Beth just pointed out was the users wanted a bench near the trail head so they could rest and wait for whatever public
transportation they need or if they're getting out of a vehicle sometimes the process of getting out of the vehicle and getting things organized and getting to the trail head has exhausted them. Uh so they want a little a rest area there.
I see Eagle Scout projects. Yes. And all kinds of projects, but we need to get uh some designs knocked out for this. Any questions for Dave? This is great. Yeah. Okay. I never heard of or thought of.
Uh I I'll let you. Yeah, sure. Real quick. Um so again, I don't know if anything was shared, but I actually my technically Eagle Scout project. It was I'm got the uh wood badge for scouting. I did a whole um thing on teaching disability awareness and uh inclusive.
Um I have a lot of links in my YouTube video which again if it was shared to I think you may have had it. Um but in Cape Cod there is a braille trail so people basically can you know read the braille signs as they go along. Um and I have a lot of links in there that could
certainly be useful. Um I believe actually I do have to say Phil has been a big proponent of um bringing accessibility into our trails. Um planning I mean so a lot of scout projects certainly are here but at the same time the planning for certain
benches and stuff needs to be started by them and then made sure they're accessible through those those lines of scouting. Um but yeah I mean this is like I said this is a great start. I have a lot of um there's an NPR um actually link on a
whole thing uh it was I think they were in Colorado but the accessibility is yeah is not just the wheelchair the data but they need to know the width of the trail right so yeah if you're on a walker is going to be a different width than the and then the chair and so they want that data and at this point I would
think there's kind of a resource to help us give out you know kind of put all that data at point so we're not starting from square one um out there for the population to use. Thank you. So, thank you very much. Good good input. That that brings just a couple of thoughts
while you're you've got the design hats on. For the width, uh they typically want 36 in or more or more. Preferably more so a companion can walk next to them. Okay. So, you can go down side by
side instead of front to back. Yep. And then for some of the the blindness stuff, our the trail user that is blind uh has trouble with the ropes. Uh they're typically in the autobon sites
for it because yeah, uh not only do people use it for feeling what's there by the knots and things in the rope, but they also use it for stability. So, it gets stretched and moved around and usually destroyed within a year or two.
Okay, Dave, thanks. Thanks very much. I know you're becoming the town expert on this. Appreciate it. All right, let's uh keep moving ahead, David, if we can go to the um why don't we take that cranberry bug one first because I want
to put everybody in the mood for a minute about trails. So, I this is like a minute long. Um, I was at the Cranberry Bar on Sunday and it really struck me. Uh, this is Mother's Day morning, so we were out there for not
that long, but it's amazing what a what a wonderful site that is. So, next picture. This is out on Elm Street in Chford. Lady slippers. I think I saw 20 lady slippers, pink lady slippers. This is out by the dam before you get to the
dam on the left. Um, it's it's really quite a sight to see them right there. And boy, you can walk right by and not see them unless you kind of know to look for them. Really cool. There's some more on the other side of the dam. And then we saw a couple more elsewhere. So, next picture, too. A little closeup of the
lady slippers there. So, they're Oh, all right. Got zoom. Yeah, there you go. They're just beautiful. They're really nice. So, next next slide. We'll keep moving here. This is uh you see these out there all the time. These are the beaver scent
mounds and this is the beavers showing their territory and they're all over out there on the dams and on the the causeway and all over the site. So there's plenty of beaver on that site. So these aren't the lodges. These are not lodges. These are as I understand it. I'm not an expert, but my
understanding my reading on this is these are called beaver scent mounds. And it's the way they create they they impart their musk or whatever into the into it and it's telling other beavers get away. This is my area. So, and this is a big territory season right now. So,
next picture. We got a couple of northern uh what do they call David? Racer snake. Northern water snake. Northern water snakes. Yeah. So, they are they're in the same spot they were in last year. I saw them last year and I looked this year and they're in the exact same spot.
Um which is on what we call the second dam heading towards Carlile on the left. Um don't disturb them. Just look at them. They're nesting in that area. So, I mean, they look like they're what, four feet long, this one? I would have said two to three, maybe 30 inches. Yeah. Yeah. But they're it was good
size. Still pretty young, but they're still pretty young. Yep. And then I think there's one more or two more pictures. Yeah. And that's just out at the point. And it's a nice spot. And uh people, for whatever reason, people like to stack
sticks out there. So anyway, okay. That's that's the cranberry bog. We might do this on uh each one of our sites going forward um because we have some great great sites. So, let's talk now about the um Bill's going to help me with this because he and I have talked
about this quite a bit um about the model. So, we talk about the stewardship on the sites and um let's go to the next page. So, the general model here um is that we would we really would like to do what
was done years ago, which is have specific site stewards. Um uh Bill, I'll let you talk to this a little bit. Uh yeah, each site there's there are people who are very interested in in regulars on all the sites. If you I walk at
Oakill every day and Deep Brook every day and Coolis once a week or twice a week and you'll see the same people at each sites and people will do things voluntarily pick up trash. Uh I know at
Oakill today I was up there there was a couple logs on the trails those were cut removed. there's somebody doing something at the sites all the time, unsung people that uh take care of
things. So, what we've done is kind of put together a talk to some of these people and put together a list of people on each site that will support that site and not do big projects, but just kind of keep an eye on the site. If they see
something that's out of out of whack a little bit, they'll contact David Coun, our agent, and then it'll be passed down to whoever needs to take care of it from whether it's DPW or anything else. That's where the second one, the general
trail stewards comes in, right? But uh you'd be surprised how many people walk the sites every day uh and do what they do and and they don't ask for any credit for it. They just uh they enjoy the sites and they
and they want to keep them nice. So those people we've contacted them and they they they are a big part of maintaining the sites. So that's the the first one is the site stewards. The second one is the general st trail stewards. going to show a another table
here. David, can you open that up just a touch more? Sure. A little bit bigger. Um, so the second one is trails. So those would be people that that uh jump in when like there's logs down and we need to get a chainsaw on it or a project. Um, and you'll see some
examples of that. Um, projects that are happening. Um, and then the new thing that this was Bill's pushing on this one is that each of us as commissioners will be responsible for at least one if not a couple of trails. Um, and the responsibility really just means that we
we're up to date on what's going on there. So that when we have a conservation meeting at more or less every meeting, we'll do a quick rundown. Chris, what's going on here? Or John, what's going on? Oh, nothing. Everything's good. Okay, fine. We move on. Or maybe there's some issues like we
we uh so I'll jump in right here. Russell Mill um we had a issue in the last year with a resident. someone was attacking trees with a hatchet and a machete and that was a year ago and it came back and the uh the M mountain
biking group is the group who who supports that site and they identified through a neighbor um who they thought was doing it and we did have the police talk with this person and we think we've got the problem resolved. So, um it's not hopefully not going to go any
further than this, but it was really disappointing to see a resident of town damaging lots of trees at Russell Mill, but I'm hopeful that uh with the help of the police and uh and the people that are on the sites and and do it. But that would be the kind of thing that uh we'd
have an update at the meeting and say this is what's going on. So, that's the site commissioner uh conservation commissioner role. And then we as a commission are reviewing projects. So, when somebody comes to us with an Eagle Scout project, somebody comes up to with the pollinator project at a at one of
our sites or uh a big uh new bridge or something, we get to review it. Might have some questions or suggestions, but generally, we're happy to see those. And again, you'll see some answers. And then finally, our agent here, David, is uh supporting all these roles. He's going
to pick up some emails going forward um from anybody that uh has an issue on a site. um if you have an issue, you can send us an email to David and it'll get out to the right people to get resolved. Um he's going to provide coordination. And I think really importantly is um
review site event requests. These site event requests are things like we've seen for many many years like the day after thank the day before Thanksgiving walk. Um we have um lots of we have a mountain bike uh uh visit this weekend I think at Thanksgiving forest. So David
reviews those and in most cases he's going to review them and approve them within a day or two and that's that's almost going to be 95% of the time. If somebody says, "Oh, we want to have a camp out on a site and an overnight." That might take two or three weeks. Come
to us with that. We might discuss that in the in the commission meeting, but that's that's the that's the unusual situation. So uh but we are absolutely happy to have all kinds of events. anyone in town can organize some kind of an event. Um, generally if you're
talking like five people, just go do what you're going to do if you're going to do a birdwalk or something, but we like to hear about it at a minimum and um and and and have some uh some understanding of what's going on. Next page um is just going to show I don't know if you can even see all the names.
It's not that good, but we do have every site that is our conservation reservations. Um, we have names assigned for site commissioners for each of the sites. Um, hopefully you guys are okay with that. I talked to most you. I don't think I asked you, but I, you know, I I
think you're good with it. Um, one's in your backyard, John, so I'm good. I'm sure you're good with that one. Um, and I know I did talk to Bill, because he got three. And, uh, so I think we're good with that. Peter's not here, but I'm I'm quite sure he's okay with I think he got Thanksgiving forest. And then the site
stewardship is on the right. And this is as as Bill said earlier, the basic requirement for a site steward is you got to visit the site somewhat regularly. Somewhat regularly is very vague. Some people go daily. Some people might go once a week. Might even be a
little less frequent. But you keep an eye on things. And the basic thing is you're keeping an eye on the site and you're gonna you're gonna either address an issue yourself. There's some trash in the parking lot. There's a there's some sticks on the trail that need to be moved. Whatever. or you um contact David
or one of us and we'll escalate to the right general trail stewards list here on the left and anybody wants to join our crew here. We're we're happy to have more people involved but we get out there and um we get out and address
these issues very frequently, very regularly. Um, you you heard some comments about people getting out and doing the work and not looking for a lot of uh a lot of fanfare, but we just get it done. And there's a lot of people that do this. And these are all people
that I have confirmed with that they will continue to do if they've been doing it for years. Um, a couple of them are are somewhat new, but really almost all of them have been doing this for years. Some of them have been walking the sites for 30 years. Um, so
everybody's all on board. So earlier in the meeting we had some discussion um that was pretty obvious that uh there's a little different perception of how things have been going but I'm telling you this is the reality of what's been going on at our sites. There's really no
change in a lot of ways with our sites. I think we're going to have a stronger model going forward. I think this model is going to be more involved with the commission and um all of these people are very happy to move forward with a different model. Um I uh I and the other
thing is I don't see any change in cost. I've I've seen some money discussions. This doesn't change anything about about dollars with the town. Everybody here volunteers their time. Everybody here volunteers. If there's some expenses that happen, they'll get reimbursed. We'll figure that out. That's we're not
talking big dollars here. Uh that's always been the case. Um so this um uh you know the town has the DPW has for years done a lot of work supporting our sites. So the town has always spent money. Paul has always uh the town manager has always supported any of the
projects that we try to do. So in my opinion there's really no change to uh to a lot of things and I think it's going to be a way forward. So let's go to the next page. we will be putting up some kind of a posting that looks pretty much like
this that if you're walking the trail and you see something, you can report the issue by emailing our our friend David here, uh the the conservation agent. You can call them and leave him a voicemail. Uh it may take a couple of days to to get back and get it resolved and and get to it. But that's that is
one way. I will tell you, you can you can email me. Um my email is on the the town website. Um many of you have my personal email as well. So that's fine. Um I would I would ask that if you do this, please remember to include the
site. Don't forget where you are. It sounds obvious, but hey, there's a trail. There's a tree down on the trail. Please fix it. Where? What? What site? So please remember to tell us the site. Give a description of the problem. Doesn't have to be long. And the
location. And there's this app called What Three Words? My son ran across this in in he was working over in uh in uh England about 5 years ago and he told me about this cuz he was out in the woods with some power company stuff doing stuff. He said, "This thing's really
cool. It is an app you have on your phone. You download it and it assigns a unique three-word code that's the equivalent of a 3 meter by 3 meter GPS uh um um what am I saying? Coordinate coordinates. the uh GPS
coordinates. And so if you have those three words and you give them to us, we know exactly where you are. We can walk with the right with that information. I can look at the map on the thing and say, "Oh, it's at the Cranberry Bog and here it is. It's way down this one
trail. Oh, we you know, that's a long way. Okay, that helps." And the other thing that's really helpful is to include a photo. Uh if you can take a picture because then we go, "Oh, that's like that's not just a tree down. that's four trees down and we need a big crew or it's just a small log and you know
two people. We have a rule always two people if you're using a chainsaw. So, um it's that kind of information that we're looking for. So, that will be up on the kiosk. It will have we'll have the address and I like that what Dave was saying. You got to have the address. And we and I have played around with
Google Maps to try to make sure all our sites have the address and it takes you to the driveway access because some of them take you out into the woods and it's like that's not that doesn't work. Okay, next page is the sample site management plans. So we have pages for each site.
Right now this is a sample. This is the cranberry bog. And so on the left is what we would call the regular ongoing site management for that plan. It's basic things that a a steward or anyone can do. Remove trash. Keep the signs visible on the site. Uh clear obstacles
on the trails. Uh ensure trail markers are present. We have I'll you'll see another project that we're doing. So basic things and a couple of specific things. The Cranberry Bog has a dam. We like to keep an eye on the level of the water at the dam. So keep an eye on the level of the water of the dam. Um I I
just added today uh protect the Pink Lady slippers along the trail. So make sure they don't get trampled or cut or anything like that. Um so we we have to figure out how to do that best. Um we did have the um turtles on that dam.
That was me who put the sign up. I saw those those um turtle eggs on the dam. I was the one that put that up two years ago. I scrambled to to make the sign in my garage because I had magic marker and and uh cardboard. So, uh I I know if if
somebody's interested in lots of sign work, I don't want too many signs because we're out in nature. But on the other hand, like a turtle egg sign is kind of a good thing to put out for a couple of months or a couple of weeks on the dam, that kind of thing. It's nice. We can always use those kinds of things.
And you'll see a good example of another sign in a couple minutes. So on the left side are the fairly quick you know simple things that you need to do on a regular basis sight specific but some generic things invasive management I bring my my hand clippers with me almost
every time I go out and boy if you just clip as you go almost if you keep doing that if everybody keeps doing that bring bring your clippers maybe even bring a little trash bag with you pick up the trash um it becomes a kind of an easy thing going for you know going going uh
as as we go. The potential projects on the right are just things that many of us have identified as opportunities on that site. They are not necessarily active, but um if there's uh scout groups or church groups or anybody that
wants to pick up some of these, we can figure out a way to make some of these projects happen. Some of the volunteers that you saw on the previous page, that was the uh general stewards and the and the other stewards. um we decide which ones we want to work on and we do them. You'll see a couple of examples. Um
there's a lot of things that that we have as ideas. If you have other ideas you want to do at a given site, let us know. Um the town has just done a facelift on the town website and I'm hoping that we can get a lot of this information into the town website in the
conservation commission area. I'm kind of excited about that. Paul's admin, uh James has become very good at this. Um and he's going to be able to help us. I think he's committed to helping us do this. Having that information out there and it's dynamic and we'll know how to change it is really to me really
important. Those projects need to come before the board though. Those are those projects on the right are things that we would like people to present to us so that we follow we're consistent on on each site. If somebody's going to make a uh kiosk,
say we want them to be the size that we can put the signage we want on it or a picnic table that works for that site. So, it's not projects you just do in your garage and bring to the site. Bring the uh project to us for come to a
meeting, present it to us. We can possibly help financially if we have the money or uh suggest suggestions, but we work together on that. Those those items on the right hand side with the other stuff is anybody anybody can volunteer
and pick up trash. You don't have to be a steward. You don't have to be you're a steward in name because you are Yeah, we have a we have people assigned but anybody can do that stuff in the lab. Y next. Uh so I just wanted to share some of the
things because there are perceptions that things aren't going to happen. Well, these are things done by people that are not were not part of costs and have been going on for quite a while and these are just uh we did this walkway last fall. There were probably 8 to 10
volunteers. It was 180 ft of existing uh extension over an existing walkway. And um reservation. Uh this is at the right reservation. Um we we got the design, we borrowed it from the Bedford, Mass Trails Committee. Um it was a really
good design, a great project. Um and it's a big big plus to that site. Um next next slide. We had a good crew uh on there. There's somebody in the background folding his arms there. Supervisor, some some supervisor in the background. Uh but we had a good crew.
That's only part of the crew cuz we had multiple days doing those installations. But um it was a great project. Let's go to the next page. We have uh Warren Pole. Um the Warren family asked us a few weeks ago if they could come and do because that's
this was their family parcel for years and years and years and they wanted to do a invasive plant removal and we were very happy to have them do that. This is what they call the honeymoon cabin spot. they had a a family cabin on that location and they said in sort of
memorialize that location. Uh they wanted to really clean up the invasive plants. So they've done a lot of work there um cleaning that up and there's still a lot more going on there. Um we've got other volunteers helping helping there and uh it's going to be great and eventually we want to put a
sign there. Yeah. Interpretive sign that says, you know, maybe something about what the family's history was on that site. It's a very interesting spot. It's and it's a beautiful spot on the on the hill. Next, please, David. Uh we had a uh volunteer that
made this uh vernal pool habitat sign for us last year. Um this was part of the coolest uh acquisition, and there is almost certainly we don't have a formal designation certified that it's a vernal pool, but we are 100% sure it is. Oh,
yeah. It is for sure a vernal pool. And so that is the the sign that we got made by one of our great volunteers. It's a cool sign. And this is to describe that the vernal pool is not just the wetland area, but it's the upland habitat for the vernal pool, which is a 100 ft
beyond the wetland part of the vernal pool. And so we need to protect that. you know, we we have our our you heard some of our hearings tonight that we talk about um wetland protection and we can't be having uh strict controls on a
on an applicant and then we're not doing that on our on our own property. So, this is a example of a of a sign. So, again, for volunteers, if you don't really like walking out in the woods, but you like woodworking, um we you know, we should talk. You know, we can
we can find some more. Next, we have this uh speaking of woodworking, we have this Thanksgiving forest pollinator garden. So, there was a neighborhood group that came to us and asked about uh putting it putting in this pollinator garden. Uh to the left, you can see the
watering cube, which I just heard today that the tree there going to be some trees planted tomorrow, I think. And the watering cube is going to get filled up, I hope, so that we can plant so we can water the trees tomorrow. Uh the the this is through the DPW. they're helping there. But in the meantime, the
neighborhood, one of the neighborhood residents who's in the room uh built that shed. It's a beautiful, it's a piece of art almost. It's really a pretty shed. Uh and it's uh and it's so that's to make it look nice. The intent is that at some point that w that uh uh
pollinator garden doesn't need water and the shed can be taken off site and moved to another location. But Kyle, just a note on that specific project, the people came before us for the for the uh garden and also the person who built that
uh shed for the water tank also presented us with what he was planning on doing and uh the location was talked about. So that was an uh an effort between DPW, ourselves, the neighbors, and there was a few other people
involved. The land trust might get involved. Land trust was involved. Their neighbors. Yeah. Yeah. So, but it was all brought before us and we discussed it. So, we got a nice project out of it that everyone's happy with and uh it looks great. I I went out there look at the uh the shed for the water tank. It's
beautiful. and we're going to get a kiosk for this particular project right in that same area that will match the match the the water cube. Thank you. Okay, thanks Bill. Good good point. Thank you. Next next slide. So trail map refresh. So we have a a volunteer who is
working on updating our trails, specifically the right reservation map right now. Um and that's kind of the pilot one. I'm hoping that that's the way she's approaching this that this is the pilot. um and it will reflect change conditions on the site since this was
2011 was the date on that map. That's 14 years ago and there's a lot of changes on that site in the meantime. But in addition uh based on what you heard earlier from Dave on the um on the ADA stuff including trail difficulty and
surface information uh of the of the trail uh we can now add that thing to the to this project to this particular site also. Um, we want to coordinate that with putting the maps both on the
kiosk but on the online site but also I know a lot of people use all trails app and some other things. So getting all of that to map together along with the signage on the site because sometimes our signage is really out of date and not accurate. So there's a lot involved
here. We could have more help on this. Uh probably some of it might involve walking around a site with a backpack that's a really accurate GPS. Uh some of it might be doing some uh uh some
mapping uh uh Adobe photo whatever uh you know so those kinds of skill sets can be helpful here as well. There's a lot of things that can be done here. Um we also have a couple of young people that um one's graduating. I think she was here tonight and um one's a freshman
that took some GIS courses and they may be involved in this as well. So, I'm excited about this because I'd really like to get our maps um with a refresh. Uh you know, it'll take a while, but we'll you know, this is the first one, the right reservation. And by the way,
we're also we've been working kind of in the background with the tree committee on a this this particular site reservation has a lot of really cool trees on that site. It was a a tree uh nursery years and years ago. And so there are some really unusual trees
there. And so uh one of the members of the tree committee is um looking at we've done a few spins around the site and looking at doing something like a tree scavenger hunt kind of a thing. And I'm really excited to have that happen because it's a really cool site for that
kind of a thing. And I think it would be a a great a great thing to to add to that site. And I think that's it. Or is there one more? Did I have it? I think that's it. Yeah. Okay, that's it. So, um this is where I think we're moving going forward. I'm very excited going forward.
I think we have a lot of good stuff that has been happening, a lot of things that will continue to keep going. There's a lot of people involved in spite of what people think. There's a lot of people that do a lot of work that don't want to
be part of the social media world. They want to just do the work and get it done. And um so this is this is a really good uh example uh of uh things that we're doing u sort of kind of behind the scenes I guess and maybe we need some
more visibility but um I I think this is I think this is a good example. Yeah, I'll take a quick uh very quick please because we're we're getting late. know one well social media is where it was hey the tree is down over in right or you know and that's how the volunteers
would go um as far as right I know from social media a lot of people with dogs avoid it because the ticks are so bad so they don't even go on that site that site is also um it's been on the radar from cost to say you know the the the
trails were so muddy so bad um and three years ago my son and another um scout uh as far as the conservation hours, you know, their volunteer hours, they took the free planks that was stacked up at Sunny Meadows and basically put, you know, replace some of the boards that
had been rotting away. So, it's wonderful that you guys have that whole walkway, but that has been on, you know, a docket for years. So, I mean, you have to give do, you know, give credit to the people who have done a lot of work. That's all I think most people are asking is there's been a lot of work and
a lot of those people you see on the trails, how do you know they're not they weren't cause volunteers? So I it's just a it's a tit for tat now and it's kind of ridiculous. You we need to move forward and if this is a way to go that's fine but you need to give credit to the past volunteers. That's
all. Okay. Yes. Mine's like super quick. So one of the things I wanted to say was I I think I alluded to my comments Denise Ferbus 50 High Street is that learning about what you guys do is so incredibly hard. in the p I spent hours
digging to figure out what you guys do and look at all this I have I I that's why like for example for those turtles I didn't know where to go and I had to get to them fast because there were people and dogs poking around on them and it was before business hours and it was two
years ago and yes June is the month for turtles there as you know um so if we don't know what you do and we don't if we don't know what the open spaces have to offer and we don't and if we don't know how to engage it's really really
tough and I know that social media you know it's a thing but I mean even on the town website we we just can't find out so point taken understood it's not a criticism it's understood we need to know thank you okay this is uh we we
need to wrap up it is getting late I have a very early flight tomorrow morning so um I really want to finish up very quick things I think that's it on the help me out here David what's next um vote on request for CPC funding okay for coolest farm boundary survey so the
first vote that we need to run through is refresh my number on the num the Paul is it 38,000 or no it's 33 336 so we are requesting uh money from the CPC computer the community preservation
fund uh to do a b boundary survey. So, as we talked earlier about boundaries on different properties, in order for us to do the CR and in order for the Sbury Valley Trust to take the CR, they want a very well-defined and I totally agree with them. I think it's a it's it's a
must that we have a well-defined uh boundary survey for the for the property. And it's not cheap to have that done on on four parcels. Uh we had a much higher quote, we got a better quote. And so I just wanted to be able to say the the vote at the community
preservation committee is tomorrow night, but I was hoping we could do a quick vote to approve that here with the conservation commission so that I won't be there. But Paul is graciously going to present this and uh we can just say yes, the commission agrees to that. There any questions on that or what was
the amount again? 30 336 336 336 and we got some other quotes. Got one other one which was significantly higher. Significantly higher. Uh what would who would the firm be that
would do the work? Um Haley Ward. Haley Ward. All right. Well, I make a motion then that we approve the amount of um not to exceed $33,600 uh for the purpose of funding the coolest farm boundary survey. Motion
from Chris. Second. Second from Bill. I beat you. Uh all in favor say I. I. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. So we have um we we are recommending that. Okay. Second one is the Warren Pole habitat study. So, this is a $1,200
habitat study with Oxbow. And again, this is part of the uh CR requirement, right? So, it's really the meadow meadow habitat. Meadow. Yeah, I'm sorry. The meadow habitat, right? Didn't say meadow here, but it should. Yeah, but it is the meadow part. And so, this is the beautiful meadow that we have that's
growing a lot of native plants right now. They're coming in really well. Too many invasives coming in as well, but um it's a it's a beautiful wet meadow. Uh but we need help from a professional to give us some good guidance on how to manage that. Uh we do some cutting
around the edges of it. But do we want to cut it completely every year or every 5 years or never cut it because it's a wet area? It it's very very wet. The wetland delineation took us out to basically the whole area. So the request
is to ask the CPC for $1,200 for that habitat study. The move is determined that we request the amount of $1,200 um for the purpose of a Warren Paul habitat study uh related to invasive treatment program. Uh no, this is for
this is just the habitat study that so so $1,200 for the Warren Paul habitat study. Motion from Chris, second from John. All in favor? I Okay, that one passes. So last one is the Warren Pole
invasives treatment program. So this is also uh uh this is not part of the uh CR. This is just good management of the site in that that site has all of the usual suspects for invasives. We have done a lot of work on that site to keep
some of the invasives down in some places, but we need professional help because many of them like tree of heaven and like burning bush unless you use herbicide on them and you need a certified herbicide applicator uh uh
state certified applicator to do that of which none of us are and it's a big hurdle to get there. And the DPW does have a few people and they're willing to help but they're not they're just out straight. So, we need to do this right. We need to have the right approach done. This is a professional uh invasives
management uh company, Oxbow, um who we heard earlier on some other topics. And so, this is not little. It's $4,500. Uh but this is will allow us to get ahead of things or or get caught up on things. And so, it's also a request
to get that money and to make that happen in this year. So, where's the money coming from? CPC CPC. Yeah. Because it is making an improvement on the product on the property that was bought using CPA funds and that meets
the requirements of a CPA expenditure. All right. So I make a motion then for 45 the sum not to exceed 45 $500 um for the 2025 invasives treatment program. Thank you. Motion from Chris,
second from John. All in favor? Hi. Hi. Okay. So, so I just quickly want to add that the boundary survey request also has to go to town meeting because because of the amount. Uh the other two do not. This the CPC can just approve. So the CPC will review and hopefully
approve all three of them, but the first one, the coolest one will go to the special town meeting in June because it's big. It's a much bigger number. Thank you. Good point, David. Finishing up here. Um Thanksgiving forest. Um, I want to get the approval of the commission that we would spend
some money on the fencing. It was I'm going to round it off. I think it was8$8 or $900. Am I right? 900. $900. Thank you. Um, to build the fencing. We had talked about this. This is a fence to surround
the native pollinator garden. And the correction that from one of our meetings a few meetings back was that this is not for um keeping deer out. the the the group doing the volunteering um feels that the plants that are in there are
less much less likely to be attractive to the deer. This is to keep the dogs and the people out because that has been happening. People walking through that area. And so this fence will be put in around the parcel. I think it's a good
design. I think it's a good plan. And the nice thing about it is if in three years or five years we don't need the fence. It's um it's like IKEA knockdown. We can take it apart, store it, move it somewhere else and apply it somewhere else. So it's not like it's going to get
thrown away. So I'd like to get the approval of the commission. I don't I think the uh we'll have to figure out the whole reimbursement part, but it's a you know it's it's not nothing. So, $800, but I think it'll have to come out in next year's It might be next year's budget, but let's get the approval
tonight if that's okay. So, tell me a little bit more about the fencing again. What type of fencing is it? It's a wire fence, and it's actually like two uh it's like got a two kinds of fences that are kind of meshed together so that it creates a boundary down low to keep maybe groundhogs out. What's our height
going to be? I think it's 4 feet. Uh 42 inches. 42 inches. 42 inches. Yeah. I mean, how much how much square footage? Um, well, it's it ends up being like um I think it's 20 by 40, I think. Yeah, it's a 20 by 40 area. Yeah. I'm looking
for how much? 800, you say? So, I make a motion then that we authorize the spending of 900. 900 900. Sorry. I make a a motion then to authorize the expenditure of up to $900 um for the uh the special uh fencing uh in loom too.
We said fencing just the fencing. The fencing for the fencing for the native pollinating garden. What kind of post are the for the fence? Metal metal post. Yes. Okay. Okay.
It's subject to the fact that it has to come. We need funds from the next year's budget. Yep. Yep. So motion from Chris. Second. Second from Mark. All in favor? Okay. We're good to go there. Thank you. You want me to I'll be I'll be taking a look at the one on uh Redwing Farm. We
talked mention of fence. That's next on my list here. It wasn't on the agenda, but I did want to talk briefly about that. So, Redwing Farm has um had the uh split rail fence is in really bad shape and uh in fact, it's non-existent in
places. It's piled up in a stack. It's really bad. Um we uh I would like to get us out there if we can get out there and visit um as a as a commission, do a site visit there. I was proposing Saturday the 24th. I'm traveling until next
Thursday. So, I I you know, I know I think I heard Chris, you you're not around? out of town that weekend. Yeah. But is that possible? Saturday the 24th and it's just to get it get eyes on that. I know the um we looked at that a couple years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It need to
be in bad shape then. Yeah. Well, I mean maybe we don't need to see it, but uh but I'd like to I think we want to know how much we want to replace if we replace it. Yeah. I think so. What what h Bob Morris who's the neighbor who takes care of our our grass here. He cuts the grass and um uh lives in the
house adjacent. He has the same fence in his backyard and he just replaced a bunch of posts. So he already gave me a an estimate for us of around a,000 bucks. Eight 8 to 7 8 900 bucks for posts. What I what I want to do is see
if the cross pieces are also bad. I'd like to get eyes on it. I think we should just get eyes on it before we commit to spending that kind of money. And so it'd be good to get us all there at the same time. So maybe we can say Saturday morning at 9:00 on the 24th. If you can't make it that day, come another
day and and get it. But I'd like to get everybody to to go over there and see it. It's a great site. It's a beautiful site and I think it's very picturesque and um but it's it's incumbent on us to fix the to get that fixed. Bob, our neighbors taking care of his side. We need to take care of our side. Say nine.
That's okay. 9:00 that you said let's say nine o'clock on the 24th if we can. I mean there's no deliberation or meeting or anything. It's just it's just if we can. It's better if we're all there together as best we can. Okay. So Okay. Um and that's it. Um agents report
David. So just quickly I approved a night pollinator study of the cranberry bog being um conducted by the Roland Institute at Harvard. Um, actually it was the Carlilele Conservation Commission, I believe, that uh actually commissioned the study on their side of
the the town line or the the reservation. Um, but it turned out there are um some black huckleberries that are immediately over on the other side on the Carile portion of the property that they feel are extremely important. Yeah.
On the Chelter side. the chumpter side they feel are extremely important to include in the study. Um it it's just a matter of them having a camera out there that will an infrared camera that will photograph you know the different insects they see at these flowers at
night. Um so I approved that. Uh and ne next thing is as Carl alluded to earlier um I I approved the the Philip Keys uh NEMA's Philip Keys memorial bike ride at Thanksgiving Forest on Saturday. So
that's actually I I looked at the map. It's a Great Brook State Park race that spills into Thanksgiving and then goes back. So, so they'll they'll they they're going to be putting some signs out there, I think Saturday morning, then just removing them after the race Saturday afternoon. And then, uh, just
the last one is I've had a couple requests for an update, status update on 270 Bill Rick Road. Um, you know, the commission, the commission's consultant is working closely with the contractor to be out on site, you know, monitoring activities, uh, in particular, um,
implementation of the RAM plan. uh as as applicable. So, okay. Yeah, I'm getting I'm getting, you know, reports on that. It's in good shape. Okay. Thank you. Uh meeting minutes. Um did we get a chance to look at March 25th meeting minutes? Are we okay with them?
I I was okay with I move to approve the meeting minutes for March 25th, 2025. Motion from Chris for March 25th. Second. Second from Mark. All in favor? I I That's all. I know we
got a new set tonight, but we're going to we're going to do that next time. So, that is it. That's a Oh, I'm sorry. Could I ask about the loan in the kiosk? Uh let's talk afterwards. I'm going to close up. I'm going to close up. Yeah. You want to say thank you there? Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. Move to uh close the hearing. Yep. Tojourn. Motion from Chris to close. Second from Bill. All in favor? Ijourn. Thank you very much, Shelson Media. Thank you everybody for coming. Appreciate it very much.