order tonight will be following the published and posted agenda will be available via Zoom also be recorded for future viewing and live broadcast on CHC Tel media and on YouTube first on our agenda this evening is approval of minutes from February 13th 2025 has everyone had a chance to
review them yes yes all right do I have a motion I motion to approve the minutes of uh February 13 2025 of the finance committee second it any discussion all those in favor I hi all right moving right along we have
a review of the fiscal year 26 budget for the library with us this evening we have the library director Leslie Kimble hi everybody hello hello hi okay I can't believe a year has gone by uh but here we are thank you so much for the time
I'm excited to be here um to talk about what's happening at the library um and what we looking forward to in the next fiscal year so um we'll start with the budget since that's what we're here to talk about uh just for context the
library budget is about 2% of the town's budget this year um the library budget is at a 3.8% increase and no surprise the main drivers are utilities um inflation and state aid
eligibility so when I talk about state aid eligibility there's a few requirements that are unique to the library's budget in order for us to be eligible for state aid which at the moment is about $90,000 um for the year so it's quite
significant so for us to be eligible for that we need to maintain a 2 and a half% increase over the average of the last three years Municipal appropriation for the library that's fun math um and then we need to spend 133% of our operating
budget on materials so all the things that people borrow that go directly to the public and then we need to meet a standard of open hours and that's based on population and for us that is um 59 hours a week is that uh is that standard
um this year a Known Unknown for us is the Union contract like the other Union contracts in town it's being negotiated right now so we won't know um on the Personnel side exactly what that increase is going to be in addition to
the budget that we receed from the Town we're really really fortunate to have support from the chelsford friends of the library uh we mention them every year we truly couldn't do everything that we do without them in fiscal year
25 to date they've given us over $80,000 so that's about 2third of the programs that we're able to offer they were able to replace all the chairs in our meeting room which get very very heavy use um they've added Museum passes
so that uh even more families are able to go and take advantage of that so we're really fortunate we feel like it allows us to do a lot um with the money we get from the town by enhancing that with money from the friends next slide Jim so um this
Library budget this year and the town manager's recommended budget does um take Sunday hours out of our um out of our budget so we're open uh traditionally the Sunday after indigenous people's day through the
Sunday before um Memorial Day so a little more than half the year or about eight months um this is a real uh hardship for the community we understand um you know the needs of the town right
now so we're certainly completely understanding of that but you know just again to understand that because it Sunday are a surprise sometimes to people how busy they are um it's tied with Friday for our
second busiest day of the week Saturdays our busiest day um on Saturdays we see about 75 people an hour come through our doors and on Sundays and Fridays it's 65 people per hour are coming through our doors on that day uh we average about
250 people coming and then that first hour that we're open on Sundays is is actually um tied with Friday mornings for the actual busiest hour of our week um so Sundays are really important we do a lot of programs on that day we have a
lot of families visiting on that day um and we're one of the only two libraries in the region who are open on Sundays so it's something we certainly take very seriously and you know we'll be looking closely at how we can um continue to
serve the community on this incredibly important day okay so uh just some of the ways that the library makes such a big impact in the community we have uh
175,000 visits every single year to our libraries and you know what that represents is the library is a safe and welcoming space it's uh used for warming and cooling uh when our weather gets uh
away from us and people may not have access to that um and that's going to work even better as the HVAC project moves forward and uh we're able to keep that stable it's an accessible building um it's not only accessible um from the
physical sense we've added uh a program called good maps which does uh voice navigation of the building itself for folks who are visually impaired um and our resources programs recognize and represent the diversity
that we have in our community so it's a place where anyone can come and feel welcome um and it's open more hours than any other Public Service building in town with those 59 hours a week right now we're also open the additional four
hours on Sundays um so it's a really important place in addition to service so another impact is uh has to do with the amount of technology that we offer I
think it's really easy to forget that not everybody has the digital world right at their fingertips uh we see it every single day we know um partially from the town's strategic planning process and hearing from the community how serious the digital divide is how
lost and isolated people can feel from town government information or from other social things that are happening in town if they're not able to have uh technology access so the fact that one of the things that strikes me about this
is it's really easy for me to pull out my phone or my laptop I'm very fortunate and privileged that I'm able to do that if I'm making the trip to the library it's because I really need to it's because my technology at home isn't working or it's because I don't know how
to access that particular Government website or something else that I need to do online it's because my other technology isn't working my printer isn't working uh so I'm making the trip to the library because I have a real real need and we're talking about 16,000
hours of computer use at the library um and then in addition to that there's the technology classes uh that we offer the one-on-one help uh so it's an essential service um and we're not just in one place in
the community we're not even just in two places uh but our McKay branch in North chelsford if you've never been there please go and visit um it's wonderful the town has really invested in it over the past few years uh completely upgrading the ventilation system to make
it safe and a pleasant place to visit uh we've got unique services and events there many of you probably know about the summer concerts at McKay which are continuing um but we've also had teen paint and sips I promise the sips are
appropriate um we've had homeschool Hangouts there we have a seed library and a spice Club at McKay and we've got some great things planned for this summer as well um you know it's a another place in town where we're able
to bring people together in this case in in North chelsford it's a place that people can call a second home um it was the the family home of the first librarian in chelsford Anna McKay uh and
her family gave the house to the town for use as a library uh and it's um been in good use ever since it's really a wonderful spot to visit and our visits we reopened that um
in May of oh this is 23 that sounds crazy um but the visits are up just over last year 35% so we're really seeing that grow um and something else that's coming soon there is we're going to be able to add some kind of low Tech 247
book lockers McKay has limited hours but this will allow people to pick things up um even when the library isn't open and another place we are around town is with the popup Library truck um that we've had a great Seasons with that this year
we're adding some new stops which we're really excited about um in some different places in town really trying to identify spots where um people might have trouble getting to the library or otherwise um need Library service
outside of our buildings so um it's been really exciting I've been felt really lucky to be able to see some of the process of the Town strategic plan coming together and you know seeing the values and the
priorities that the community have um been talking about about and bringing forward at the forums I think that um you know it's exciting to us the values like Community engagement and
education uh sustainability and inclusivity these are all things that mean so much in the library as well we're proud to be a part of the town's Mission um and vision for that uh and I
think that's part of our impact so I certainly invite every single one of you to enjoy everything that the library has to offer we have a couple of big special events that are coming up um the volunteer fair is coming up on March
22nd that's of course a wonderful Community event matching up people who are interested in helping with groups uh that do a lot of good and um there going to be a little special presentation at 2:00 to recognize um uh some volunteers
from the town and from the library and we're really fortunate nooba Tech students are uh preparing and providing some wonderful Refreshments so we hope that you'll be able to join us at the senior center for that on March 22nd and uh one book chelsford of course and
actually you guys want to give up books um one book chelsford the annual uh book Extravaganza uh we have really excited um the author this year won the Pulitzer Prize in 2024 for this book um
biography uh called Master Slave husband wife it's an amazing um do not need one have redit all right elain Elaine can fill you in but no spoilers right Elaine hi thank you good you nice to see you thank
you how school oh my gosh congratulations uh so it's a great a great true story it reads almost like a thriller honestly um so why isn't Oprah optioned it and filmed it you're just
going to have to ask her next time we're having lunch yes you you let us know if she wants to come to the event you just you just let her know when it's happening um but we certainly would love to to see you there this is an amazing opportunity to have this Pulitzer prise um winning author come and speak to us
and um please after you read the book share it there's also lots of electronic um copies through Libby that you can um download or listen to um about we're about half full with the registrations on the um one book chelsford so I
encourage you to get online and register so you can save yourself a spot and I am very happy to answer any questions about the budget I have a question you said Sunday was your SEC second busiest day tied
with Friday yep why um have you thought about like closing on our slower day during the week like a Monday I don't know how busy Mondays are but yeah none of the days are slow um I mean I think it's a great question Sundays have the least impact
on um staff and on the Union contract because right now those are their overtime hours that staff are electing um to work so it's a um and we're not open a full year year on Sundays also so
it's um doesn't impact an entire year it just impacts part of the Year okay thank you you're welcome um I think I hope I understood this correctly I think I understood you to say that you uh to maintain your
certification you had to have a minimum number of hours of 59 per week yes now is that additive of the two facilities or is that inclusive it is we don't get to count McKay separately all right that's thank
you I asked that question early on myself good now I don't feel so stupid thank you okay any other questions just one um if Sundays if I understand that you you just have um overtime as the way of
Staffing it um so if you were to remain open all year would the cost be more than just overtime I mean how expensive would it be to leave it open all year long on
Sundays that's a good question so it's um we would have budgeted this year about $43,000 for the is it eight months somebody needs to do that math for me uh so you know it would be
we're good so it would be 70,000 um to have it open all year long kind of at the current hours so the savings is how much the savings is about
43,000 okay thank you you also have a challenge getting staff who want to work honest people might not be wanting to work in July and August and summer months on Sundays at the library it is air conditioning it is air
conditioning it's getting work done yeah it is air conditioned but no I mean at that's a point I think Sundays have been designed traditionally to try to maximize service to the community at the times when the community um perhaps
would use it the most as well because to that same point it might not get see the same kind of usage sure in July okay all right let thank you very much all right thank you if you have any other questions you know where to find me all right moving right along this
evening we have review of the fiscal year 26 budget for the NBA Valley technal School District and with us this evening is superintendent uh Denise pigon thank you just set I think I memorized this by
now don't you I think good evening everyone um I am Denise pigeon the superintendent at nooba Valley Tech thanks for the invite um I always enjoy coming to see you um and sharing about nishoba tech what's happening in our
budget I did um I did send over a PowerPoint um but you have a copy of it as well so I can um just go through the hand up when everybody has a copy oh good great um so on the first slide I always like to start our presentation by
just um reminding everyone we are your um public Vocational Technical High School um Shel chelsford is one of our eight um sending towns and continues to be our largest sending Town um on the second slide is a high level overview of
The Vocational Technical programs that we offer so about 50% of our students are enrolled in construction and transportation technical programs things like carpentry Plumbing electrical automotive autot tech um about 30% of our students are enrolled in health and
services programs everything from health and dental assisting to umet assisting culinary and 20 about 222% of our students are in Arts and Technology programs like programming and web engineering Advanced
manufacturing so chelmsford's enrollment um has you know over time been increasing um but I will say and I say this every year we're still going for that goal of the highest enrollment ever at CH at nooba Tech from students from chumford
and that's back in 1976 you had 313 students attending um nooba Valley Tech so um from last year to this year there was a slight decrease in enrollment but you can see we've had a pretty steady enrollment for the past few years um enrollment is really important
when we're talking about the assessment because enrollment is one of the largest drivers of the assessment so there's sort of two pieces to that um equation and that is whether or not your enrollment is increasing or decreasing and also the portion of your overall enrollment in relation to um all of the
other towns so from last year to this year there is a slight decrease in enrollment um and you will see that when we get to the assessment page so chelsford is down in enrollment by eight students but our overall enrollment is up by seven students um and chelsford makes up 27.4 n% of the total student
population ente um this next slide I think you could take it out of my presentation and copy and paste it into every single School District's um you know budget presentation and and probably quite a bit of it in a town presentation as well we are all facing the same exact um
budget pressures and drivers um for us our our building is aging but we work really hard to keep up um with with preventative maintenance and care of our building we use our students whenever possible um we're all experien in uncertainty in terms of
state and federal funding variations we've also been um pretty vocal that over the last few years we're really trying to be cognizant of how uh we utilize one-time funds for annual expenses so that we don't find ourselves in a position futuristically of um
having a major budget shortfall so we're paying close attention to that um again every school has seen increased needs um you know I'd like to say that it's getting better since the pandemic but we are still in a recovery phase uh health insurance has been a big
increase um everywhere I think um you know it's been it's been a pressure we're actually we're doing better in health insurance than some areas um that I've heard recently so we're we're fortunate about that but it is still a budget pressure contractual increases for Staffing um and you know what's
unique one of the things that's unique to natech is is really the supply and Equipment component um when you're thinking about educational supplies you know we're not just talking about like the p paper and pencils and printing we're talking about um raw materials for carpentry and plumbing and um electrical
and anytime you see an increase in those types of costs you we're going to see an increase in the cost of our educational supplies as well because of the type of education that we do um next slide in terms of capital projects we do
maintain a 5 to 10 year um capital capital plan um in this picture I have to it's it's a bit of a joke to put that picture up I mean nobody likes to show off a hallway that looks like that but this was the day uh like two days before school started um we worked really hard to get our fire suppression system
project done that I shared with you last year we had to do a complete run out of of um the second phase of the project and we pulled it off so it was finished and that Hall was beautiful and sparkling before the students walk through but we did cut it close so the fire suppression project um we knew that
we couldn't um we couldn't financially maintain getting all done at the same time so we've broken it out into five to six phases and um we are we finished phase two over the summer the only Capital project that we actually have in the FY 26 budget proposal is the
next phase of fire suppression we actually chose to hold off on all other projects at for the time being because of the overall budget constraints so we we are budgeting for zone 6 and 8 which is our science Wing um and and you'll see that in the budget request we have
been very fortunate I know I've been saying this for the last few years um I hope I can continue to talk about grants I hope they continue to come but this has really saved our Capital planning at nooba Tech so as you know we opened a new um 7,000 squ foot building that now
is housing our engineering programming and web programs and um by doing that we were also now able to move a few other programs around and expand the size of our electrical program we just accepted 36 new freshmen into our electrical
program it's the largest freshman class in electrical that I've ever seen in all the years I've been there so we're doing very strategic moves to be able to increase the number of seats and the high demand programs um another Grant of vettech and um vettech is also in expansion we're
moving cosmetology so in the next slide we can show you some photos of Co cosmetology this project has taken us quite a long time to finish um we had some student help we had some Grant help and the salon we just received our certificate of occupancy for the new salon this week and now we have two more
uh visits we have the department of Ed coming in and the board of Cosmo and I think our students are going to be in there in maybe less than two weeks and then it will open to the public so please come by um so futuristically we were hoping to replace
three student passenger vans in the FY 26 budget we put that on hold as well we're going to use our Automotive programs to keep that Fleet going but that's a pressure we're going to have to face in coming years and then really big picture um projects that we need to work on we do need to do a full HVAC
replacement at our school we have been chipping away at it every time we get one of these grants we've replaced that HVAC unit in that particular program but we have a big building and we have a lot of programs so we're actually in the process of writing um for an msba accelerated repair project and we're
looking to hopefully um move forward with heat pumps and um also maybe replace some of the doors some of them are original um we're we're putting that in and the reason for the timing not just need but also we have a large piece of debt that's going to be coming off
the books the large project from 2003 to 2005 will be um getting paid off very soon so we're trying to time if we take on more debt with the debt coming off and the debt going on um next slide please so that's just a a rendering of the of the building um if
you drive by the school it's sort of seamless you can't even you can't even see where it is it um it Blends in real nice you can keep going um thank you for many of you who came to the ribbon cutting for our new building that was in August just a couple days before school
started um I do always like to share with the finance committee where we stand on a couple of our accounts our stabilization count account is um is in is in good shape um it's at about 1.4 million U which is with our within our policy of 8 to 10% of our of our total
budget we are not proposing funding this any further um and OPB you can see our current balance in OPB we would we would hope to make a larger payment to oped but again due to budget constraints we are going to stick with 100,000 for this
year next slide please again I'd like to share this with the finance department just that in in general um Noob Tech does um offer high quality Vocational Technical education at a cost that is um at at a at a very
cost-effective way and when you compare us to our other vocational schools we are we are on the lower end of cost per pupil so this is the high level um view of the budget um you can see that the majority of our funding is spent in
instruction and that's the primarily Staffing costs and instructional costs um you can go to the next slide maybe and um our estimated Revenue plan so on the left side of this slide um it
shows sort of two two portions of the funding and how our school is funded so at the top these are funds that come not direct through the town assessments so we do receive direct chapter 7 Aid um we are anticipating about a $100,000 increase in direct Chapter 70 Aid um we wish it was more I
think that's a story you're hearing across the state as well um Regional Transportation reimbursement we have an estimate in there um we were hopeful and now we're just going to have to wait and see um and we are uh proposing to put in about 600,000 from our excess and
deficiency that is not the full amount of end it's um less a couple hundred thousand and that's been the methodology that we've used the last few years again in that attempt to start trying to wean off the use of onetime funds if we find ourselves in a year where we have a very low end and we're used to offsetting it
would be um problematic in the future on the bottom this is the funding that comes direct from the towns and that's the town's um town the town assessment Revenue which we'll get into a bit more on the next slide and in Orange you can see that about 67 68% of our total budget is made up from town
assessments so this is the you know the overview of all of the towns the um the total enrollment the percentage and then the next column Town's minimum contribution that is not a number that nishoba Tech sets that is a number we wait for after the governor's budget is released and it is based on a a very
complicated State formula um and the rest of the columns do actually calculate on your um percentage of enrollment at nooba Tech the next slide shows you a comparison of our total assessment this is not just chelsford this is all towns total assessment
year-over-year so you can see we're up seven students um our our minimum contribution is the most significant increase and again this is calculated by the state formula so we have had a significant increase in the in the required minimum contribution Capital um and
transportation is pretty much level um our transportation costs in general are increasing but we were able to adjust some of our special Transportation needs and that's why you see a reduction there um but our transportation contract is is increasing um as is everybody's uh a little increase in the additional
assessment and Debt Service slightly going down this next slide tells the story of C's assessment year-over-year so you could see down eight students um down a little bit in your percentage of the town of all of the towns your required
minimum contribution went up about 25,000 um capital and transportation assessment is slightly down additional assessment slightly up and um debt slightly down for a total change in your um assessment by $16
and the electrical cohorts have been filling every single time um if you know anyone out there that's looking to change careers um the the field is desperately in need and we are running cohorts in these areas so please spread the word and I'm glad to answer any
questions that you may have please come visit us um you're having the H vac done I know the students are unlikely to be involved because it's fairly big project will they be allowed to watch yes most definitely okay so we had I would think
that our entire construction program would participate in watching when we were putting in the new building the students were very excited they were watching every step of the project every day they would go down and we would set up a a viewing area for them to watch the trucks coming in and and doing all the work so yes we would do the same
thing um and I'm glad you brought HVAC up because HVAC is not a technical program that we have um but I'm very hopeful that futuristically that would be probably the next one we would consider adding um and that's what we have our eyes on in terms of state grants to potentially help us to get an
HVAC program off the ground we really think it would fill fast and you could also um and then they could help us take care of the HVAC too we would like that I think everyone like that yeah U would you be able to then also do it as an adult program because yes absolutely I
think it would fall right into CTI potentially okay quick question on OPB so contributing 100,000 liabilities 9.7 million what was it last year was the liability yeah is the balance growing sign significantly or
slowly I don't think it's changed all that much I I don't have the number in front of me I'm going to I'm looking at Paul because he's on our OPB trust um I'd have to check that balance and get back to you but our our liability hasn't hasn't shifted too significantly um but I can send you that information so you
can see the history and in terms of how we've gone about funding it so here's some good news we are in a really good place if you compare Noob Tech to other Regional Schools in terms of how far along they are in funding OPB we are absolutely in a wonderful place and I can't take any credit for that it was set up before I was superintendent um
Paul's been on our trust for a long time um but we what we have done is we've made a commitment to always fund it at least some um at some in some years we were funding it as much as 200,000 the last couple of years it's been at 100,000 but I'll send you all the history on on OPB because it's
definitely something we're keeping an eye on any other questions I can give you a footnote when she cited the the enrollment of 3113 back in 1976 there were there were 2859 students
at chomon high school because there was 700 a it was a double session at that point Thea tech ratio was was 10.95% today their ratio is over 12 and a half% because they have over 200 chord
students and the chord High School enrollment is now only about I'm going need to add that to my SL important data point from they did back in the well that's because they had the new they had the new uh High School coming online at that time I may
know some people that may have been in those classes thank you this is more information I love the history thank you all right and uh I'll ask you a question that the town manager asked you at our last session uh where are you in
terms of uh net School spending requirement um well last year NCH met net School spending uh by $1 oh wow thank you okay for people at home what does that mean um it means that that you we are in
a place where you're funding us um sort of right at that line of of where we need to be funded but if we are spending any less we're going to be in in a situation we can't cut it by 50 cents a lane yeah no that's what that means what I'm trying to say is I know what net
School spending is because I hear it at home but before he was on this committee I didn't and I would think that would be what you know so it's it's the minimum you have to spend right so you came really close
you did you Frugal girl well and I think the grants have have played a role in that as well we did receive a significant amount of Grant funds um so that's you know that has helped off set budget expenses and capital expenses I hope I can keep that going um but I just don't know
MH okay any other questions thank you very much thank you thank you pretty close H is RA are thin that's the best wow think we'd ever come into moving right along we have a review
of the fiscal year 26 budget for the finance department which includes accounting assessors information technology treasuring collection and with us this evening we have John Susa our finance director and Treasurer I already paid mine I'm good thank you good evening Mr chairman members of
the finance committee uh tonight I'd like to present the uh finance department budget request for the four offices that make up the finance department and I wanted to mention that um so I had an opportunity back at the end of February to um meet virtually
with Cindy and Anita our finance department leaon to review the budget in detail and just to go through the handout with you uh tonight if you um the first page just describes the main functions of each office so I won't
spend a lot of time there you can read read through those and then the next page has some goals for the upcoming fiscal year for each each office and then we come to the the next page has the summary of the Staffing table for FY 26
and in the preceding years and uh the only thing I would call your attention to it's essentially the same if you look in the FY 26 column in the accounting office you'll see that the um the part-time clerk is not funded for FY 26 and that's that was one of the budget
staff reductions that was necessary to uh balance the the budget uh the town budget this year so it's a slight reduction we're going from 14.25 FTE to 14 and then starting with the um we go to the next page we'll just start with
the line item budget just to explain that to everyone so the first office we come to is the treasur collector's office and you can see that under Personnel Services the um the salary line um the salary Personnel salaries in that area
uh it's increasing uh just under $20,000 um there's a small increase in longevity that covers normal increases under the town's non-union Compensation Plan for all employees and then under expenses um the expense budget should
virtually unchanged except for under contract Services you'll see an increase of $2,000 uh that's for service contract for am munus software and so uh in total uh the treasur collector's office budget increases uh about
21,700 for the upcoming fiscal year moving on to um the next office is information technology and that's staffed by um by two individuals the um IT director and
the network manager and you'll see um under the Personnel Services area that budgets increasing just about 7,200 for the upcoming year uh just under 3% and if we look at the expense budget for that
office uh lot most of it is a lot of uh service contracts some computer maintenance uh items software Hardware uh just a couple changes a community maintenance line decreases 2,000 contracted Services increases 3,000 a
net increase of a th000 basically the expense budget is pretty much level uh it's going up only about a third of a percent for the upcoming year and then uh we then move on to the Assessor's Office
and so here I just want to take a moment we have um the current fiscal year was a a great A year of great transition in the office and I'll I'll describe that for everyone that may not be familiar with it so in the beginning of the fiscal year we welcomed a new assistant
assessor to the office Brian corkran and then we you know I also saw the departure of our longtime assessor Frank Greene in July after many years of service and then in September we saw the we saw the retirement of Sue Taylor our
longtime uh administrative assistant to the assessor and at that time the at that time uh Michelle o'hagen uh the assessing clerk was then promoted to the position that was vacated by Sue and
then we then welcomed a new assessing clerk Monica Walsh so want to you know say that we're pleased to have all those new staff members with us um they've been a great uh it's been great to for uh Reagan flood our chief assessor to
you know she's done a very good job of putting together a new team and having just about I would say 75% of your office goes through a transition um that's not easy to deal with so that's kind of a backdrop to where I'm going with the the line item budget
if you look at the Personnel Services area uh Personnel decreases uh by about thir cost decreased by about 37 ,000 the reason for that is full-time salaries decrease about 27,000 and then you see long the
longevity line going away that's because when you have newer staff um you you an employee needs to work from 10 years of uninterrupted service to be eligible for longevity so that's the reason for that and you also have typically um in town government you usually have salary
savings when you have longer term employees retire and then you have newer employees start the newer ones usually tend to start at the beginning of the salary grade so that's the reason for the savings there and also I should mention in the current fiscal year we
would have had payouts of acrude time for any staff that um had been with us for a long time upon their retirement then we look down in the second half of the budget under expenses uh a couple of things I would just point out the revaluation line is decreasing
70,000 and the reason for that is because we had to perform a complete revaluation of all real and personal property during fiscal year 25 so the budget increased for that work during this year but it will decrease um in the coming
year and then uh if you look down under contracted services that line item increases 29,000 the reason for that we're trying to make that line item a little more realistic with prior year actuals if you look at it and then under dues and subscriptions
uh there's a decrease of 4500 so um if we look at the uh total and and so in total the expenses decrease about 45,000 if we look at the whole assessor's office budget it decreases about 82,000 because of the things that I just
described so that kind of gives you a overview of all the different offices and then the last page is just uh gives you salary uh detail uh for each of the positions in the department so if there's any questions I'll be glad
to try to answer those any questions all right all right great thank you thank youn okay moving right along this is where we have a little departure from the the normal review of fiscal year 26 budget uh Cemetery
commission and uh David goson will be giving that update this evening which will be relatively quick I hope um you've got the slide up there if you look at the Personnel there's only there's only four people uh you
know that we have um maybe four and and and um some clerical part-time help okay and that's pretty much been the case all along there's not much change there if you then just go to the salary line
You'll see that um fundamentally the only the only salary changes are what's by you know agreement okay step increases um there and if you go down to the
expenses uh Dave's got very little going up just a couple he's he's moved some numbers around but if you look at the overall thing he's only going up a couple of grand and when you think of everything becoming more expensive it's
hard not to think he's doing a pretty good job that there uh if you wonder the biggest line I'm I guess or one of them is the um outlay and the outlay is the um fence you know uh they do work every
year on on keeping the fences in good shape and that that requires a lot of where he's got a great deal there by the way he's got uh he's got a service I won't go into it other than it's probably better than Market that you could get and uh it seems to be working
out pretty well but the thing is it's very well run the um cemeteries are kept very well um and I'll answer any question you have but uh he's a he's a joy to go talk
to and I couldn't see having him come here for for his budget but he would have if we asked him to any questions David did David mention anything about the increase in the out out State travel just what that was yeah there there's a
um the the people who run the cemeteries do have a get together um every so often okay and um he actually has been the chairman has actually had to put it
together on a couple occasions okay so um this is a uh Cemetary Commission meeting out of state got it yeah but that's that's what that is okay any other questions all right thank you all right
continuing on the pattern we have a presentation of the uh fiscal year 26 budget for the veterans agent and uh Sam Chase will be giving that as the off that committee thank you Mr chairman um like the cemetery commission this is a fairly
simple and straightforward budget without any uh real remarkable uh variances from prior years uh with the exception that this budget for fiscal 26 contemplates uh the reduction of the
halftime or part-time uh person that had been associated with that office so you don't see that position funded for fiscal 26 um other than that the uh expenses are pretty much in line with prior year there are no remarkable changes the one
thing I would like to point out and which is not shown on this particular document uh the uh claims that are filed uh by the veterans agents on behalf of the uh eligible veterans in
chelsford uh are reimbursed uh by the state at a rate maximum rate of 75% so when you are looking at the bottom line budget and we don't do this in our presentation and um you know uh that's
not a a fault I understand the accounting behind it but I think in just taking a look at this particular budget with regard to um the actual outlay and any any uh money money that we get back via
reimbursement um you have to uh actually net out the total budget at the bottom Bottom by the amounts that are reimbursed again those are not shown on this sheet and you can get those from the uh Revenue page of the Town manager's budget but just to give you a
couple of examples uh for uh fiscal uh 24 the state reimbursement was approximately $121,000 so you would have to net that from the 2242 485 and you would get a a total uh cost
net cost of 12 149 and uh for fiscal 25 you do the same thing you net out the uh numbers and that comes up to a 197 or almost 198 and projected for fiscal 26 uh you would get
a net of about 143,000 so those uh uh reimbursements can fluctuate year-over-year from a low of about 60% uh to a high of U about 80 % because
it's cyclical and generally they track anywhere from 12 to 18 months behind the time that you file a claim so the claims that we file in one year uh you will not get within the next year a direct
onetoone reimbursement okay so that's that's how that works um as I said uh at the beginning um the office has been staffed I believe since
2023 with one full-time veterans agent and a part-time assistant and again uh for the uh upcoming fiscal year the budget anticipates or has accounted for the fact that uh that part-time position
um has been reduced so that is the uh as I said there are no uh remarkable changes or variances from prior years any questions actually I have one what kind of services do they apply for well there are various there are
various claims statutory claims that they can put in for uh um I I can't give you a I probably should have brought a list I did not I apologize and I can I can uh look that up for you later but uh
uh V veterans generally are eligible for many different types of veterans uh service connected things uh disabilities and so forth most of these would be some form of disability that would be the preponderance of the claims that are filed just the agent is filling out the
comp helping that's correct correct forms that's correct and there are depending on your on the service uh depending on your veteran service uh you're eligible for different types of of uh U monies from the uh from the from
the Federal ederal government and uh for example if you're a if you're a Vietnam veteran okay you might be eligible for Agent Orange um type uh uh benefit uh and the benef the veteran will walk into the office and you know they have no idea
what to do they don't know how do I go about F uh claiming these benefits and so the veterans agent will spend time with that veteran walk them through the process help them uh navigate the uh claims process so um it's uh it can be
it can be very complicated and uh it can take a long time uh to get a positive adjudication on these claims so it's uh it's it's fairly involved it's a fairly involved process and you and it's there's a degree of special
specialization there so thank you any of these cuts that coming at the uh glorious Federal level go to blow back on uh our veterans
here in chelsford I don't think so I don't think so yeah I would think at least response time might if they're laying off all these people well
that's right now that's an area we can't we can't delve into we can't see what what uh what the potential is there so Sam yes the um the budget I'm seeing here that you that you was sent over um earlier this week I think it's actually
the the 2025 numbers without the 2026 numbers here did I grab the wrong sheet yeah I apologize no more if you could just circulate that after after tonight I will do that that would be great thank you I was looking at going wait a second
two thank you I thought I was going I was tired I guess I need a ref fresher course on my computer skills go that's right yeah so grab the wrong file okay so what I'm not going to do is
throw up the peg access file but uh we have next is a review of the fiscal year 26 budget for the public education and government access television and Sam is updating up on that one as well okay and again as as with the veterans budget uh there really is not nothing remarkable
there um for the proposed fiscal 26 versus the fiscal 25 um if you uh go back to fiscal 24 there was a significant bump in the
outlay expense and that uh $213,000 that related to the uh refurbishment of the tele media Studio they did quite an extensive renovation added equipment and so forth so those numbers are down okay and uh you can
actually see that the overall budget um has increased year-over-year of the projected uh budget for fiscal 26 so there's really nothing remarkable there the uh studio is uh staffed uh with four
full-time people and they're all senior people so that they're they're at the top of the scale uh and then you've got a uh a younger person who who came in a couple of years ago so there's uh five full-time four senior person one Junior
person um and they are looking at uh a retirement next year and I'm told by the uh uh by the director that they will make every attempt to um to consolidate and and do what they
can uh as far as that's concerned so uh that's something we look forward to in the coming years but as I said there really is nothing uh remarkable and and you can see some decreases in in some of the areas and the overall projection for this year is about 1% below uh What uh
what the budget was uh was last year okay so one other thing and I always have to put this pitch in um the revenue looks okay for the time being but we have to remember that these operations are
funded by a sear charge on your cable bill and as more people cut the cord the revenue stream dries up so they are somewhat concerned about that but they they seem hopeful for you know the
short term near future anyway so but we have to keep that in mind going forward okay any questions Sam is there any thought about how to fund it in the future I mean more and more people are on honestly are
gonna cut cut the court or find other more creative ways you know I asked that question and the answer was uh we don't know so I mean I I don't know I've thought of that as well it's yeah okay thank
you all right thank you Sam moving right along we have a review of the general and Zoning bylaw amendments for Warren articles 29 and 30 for outdoor lighting with us this evening is a citizen petitioner Kelly B
good evening everyone I'm Kelly BD I live at 117 Park Road I've been in town for 40 years um I have authored along with the planning board a general bylaw uh to come up at town meeting that will
replace an existing zoning by law having to do door lighting that um as you can just a few highlights here that bylaw was uh voted on unanimously at the 2000 fall town
meeting and um it is basic it is essentially uh if you have a light that's above a certain brightness you have to point it down it makes some exemptions for Public Safety emergency lighting and so forth in that time in the last 25 years
we've undergone a tremendous revolution in the way we like tonight you've probably heard of LEDs uh they're everywhere now and um they have changed the landscape there are two things that H lighting science has uh uh come to
realize involving LEDs and and more generally first of all LEDs emit a lot of blue light that is in their color their Spectrum there's a lot of blue light that's emitted that hadn't been into evident in in previous generations
you probably remember the peachy colored lights which are called High Press sodium which are pretty pervasive they've almost all been eliminated eliminated now and the LEDs that have replace them emit a lot of blue light blue light at night is um sort of Public
Enemy Number One for many reasons uh it creates the most skylow it is the most disruptive to nocturnal environments and ecosystems it is what disrupts your circadian sleep pattern it leads to certain human health problems and so uh that's one thing and
the second thing that has come about is that a realization you've probably all seen maps of Earth at night uh taken from space and you see all these lights showing up the cities uh you would think that would be the worst possible light pollution but it's not it's actually
light that goes out almost above hor just above horizontal creating a lot of glare and as our population gets older we've come to realize that glare is a big problem in terms of being able to see well at night for the same reasons
that you have lampshades on your lamps at home uh we should have lampshades on what's outdoor at night because uh we want to see the target area and not necessarily the bul so with all that as a kind of a backdrop and also the zoning bylaw appli to residential and
Commercial properties but not to Municipal not to uh utilities um and so we that's why I approach the planning board to adopt a general bylaw uh which would uh allow those to fall under the
umbrella of of um um making those lighting conforming and also a general bylaw allows for the uh essentially establishment that all non-conforming lighting is non-conforming there's no
grandfathering involved any light that's bad and trust me in the 25 years since the first bylaw was enacted despite the existence of that bylaw the town has had a lot of really bad light installed um and so by having a general bylaw with um
uh that will allow us to make all not conforming lighting non-conforming and what we've done is build in a 10-year sort of grace period or what's called a sunset Clause to bring that Lighting in conformance uh it's not like people are going to be asked to change it
immediately interestingly early adopter of LED lighting uh a decade ago for example the town street lights I think were installed in 2012 I've had conversations with uh uh uh Christine Clancy about
this we can anticipate that for a lot of the installations of LEDs that exist that are non-conforming now within the next 10 years those will need to be replaced and so that would be a logical time to to replace those and make them conforming so as I said the um uh the
planning board has worked with me on this we can go to the next one next frame please um let's compare I'd like to compare what what exists in the existing bylaw and uh what we're proposing this is these are standards for all lighting the thresholds for uh
shielding remain the same one of the things that is new is the um introduction of specifications for what defines a nuisance if you talk to the Building Commissioner or Paul when there have been issues related to the um
enforcement of this it always boils down to somebody's light is annoying to somebody else it might be a business to a homeowner or homeowner to homeowner and that nuisance is what sort of triggers a response it's always been a complaint driven driven bylaw we've
actually in the new version we've defined what a nuisance is in terms of glare and also light trespass beyond the property line we've expanded the exemptions uh to cover things like special events you know you have a a festival or something like that
and so um um that and and then there is uh a nod to the fact that Sports lighting can be very um bright and very intrusive and so we've suggested only suggested but not mandated that Sports
lighting be guided by what uh are considered the recommended practices of The Illuminating engineering society which is the standard setting body for lighting for the United States next frame in terms of the um homeowner some things have remained the
same we keeping the same thresholds for shielding as we had 25 years ago um and um although initially we considered limiting the total amount of light that would be allowed on a on a on
a homeowner's property uh we decided to remove that but we have included what are called preference standards so the bylaw will say the town There's no standard but the town would prefer that you do this and that's both for the amount of light and something called
color temperature which might be new to you it is essentially the Hue that a light has the higher that temperature measured in the Kelvin scale uh the Bluer that light will be and so uh there's been a gradual movement throughout the industry throughout uh
best practices to move to lower and lower color temperatures that means they are warmer Hue less blue all of that is quite good and again although we uh for um the homeowners we we don't have a standard but we recommend a certain uh maximum color temperature and then
finally something is new uh that is not a tremendous problem here but could be and has been in other communities what we would call accent lighting landscape lighting string lights uh lighting the sides of your buildings uh there's something in there to um um to sort of
encourage people to make sure it's pointed in the right direction not over the next neighbor's property and to insert Institute a curfew from 12: to 6 so that if you've got lights in your if you're lighting up all your uh Landscaping at home that that would be off after
midnight okay uh and then the next I think for the final one uh turning to Municipal properties there's a little more rigor here uh We've instituted uh some limits on uh not you can see that the shielding requirements
are the same but we've also limited the number of uh the the the intensity maximum intensity of Any Given light of 5,000 lumens lumens is the measurement of how how much light is generated by comparison a typical residential street
light here in town is about 2500 lumens so we're asking businesses to limit uh any light that they that they install below 20 ft near the ground do no more than 5,000 if they want more than that and you can imagine situations like that for example the parking lot of a Walmart
or CVS or something like that where you have really tall poles then those installations have to be following the practices of the IES and again there's that nuisance standard so um the the final part of this is it it will remain a complaint
driven bylaw um and in discussions with Paul about this it this falls to the lighting commissioner I'm sorry the the um the Building Commissioner and typically what has happened in the past if if there was a complaint somebody's objecting to the a
neighbor's light it's not the Building Commissioner who goes out first but usually a police officer to kind of Judge the situation and the Building Commissioner gets involved later it's also the case that the planning board has been tremendously supportive in making sure that new developments that
come in uh follow the guidelines and and uh have lighting plans that make sense for our communities and you can see see that some of the newer businesses that have come into town have really good quality lights I would point to as a my my best example the lighting that went into Chelmsford Plaza some Years Ago by
wind Stanley properties uh that is really beautiful highquality lighting and the color temperature of those lights is 2700 but to try to um have a better pathway for enforcement the bylaw introduces the notion of a lighting standards officer this is not a new hire
there's no cost it is essentially the building commissioner or somebody that the Building Commissioner uh appoints to do that in some cases when uh it's felt that the building commissioner or whoever is working in that department it's out of their league in terms of the technical
specifications uh they have the ability to call upon uh a professional uh lighting lighting professional to make those measurements and in in uh in the cases of of of the commercial properties that the cost for that would be borne by
the petitioner so if you're building a you have a new development or something like that you have to bring a third party to certify compliance that would be born by the petitioner not by the town um I think that is about it uh the
planning board has uh supported this and um I have reached out to virtually every conceivable stakeholder in town the police and fire departments The chuner Business Association multiple times times uh the Conservation Commission the
uh environmental uh uh sustainability committee the historic district commission and so forth even the bicycle and pedestrian Safety Committee got got an earful from me so I've tried to uh uh work with all of these stakeholders to make sure that this is fair uh and
reasonable what I hope is that this beautiful town that we have can remain that and actually improve upon it by uh asserting a little bit more control over the lighting we have and with that I uh thank you very much for your attention thank you for the opportunity to to speak tonight and I welcome any
questions you might have um considering putting in what I would call motion detector lights so I would want them to be for the time second that I'm so I'm walking into my
house that I see everything around I can don't have to worry about peoples so what is the feeling about that because that would be bright on purpose right so term that's right um the the notion is that if you have lighting that is on
motion sensor yeah that it can exceed the limits that we have set remember in in the initial going we were going to limit the the total brightness of all the lights on your property that's no longer going to be the case in the bylaw what I would suggest to you is that
you're welcome to light up your property but you don't really have the right to light up your neighbor's propert property and so uh the the from the standpoint of you're being able to see best in your environment those lights really should be pointed down so that you're not overwhelmed by the glare of
them as you're trying to enter your house I'm not I don't mean to be I understand light pollution I went once my husband and I years ago we went up to Vermont for romantic weekend and we were like oh it's so dark in the room let's open up the window to get a little light
in here we put the shade when you heard the noise and because it was Vermont there was no light well that's great for Vermont but I'm saying is that so so let me try to explain the glare situation for you your your eyes can see
very well at night as long as there is not a glare Source within your field of view especially if you're a senior um the the older you get the more susceptible you are to glare yes you need light to see where you're going but as soon as you put a glare Source in your field of view then your pupils
contract and your eyes actually can see less well than they can otherwise and my classic example is you've probably driven down a street with a car coming at you with has the high beams high beams not only are the high beams but they're very blue Rich your eyes are in
exquisitely sensitive to blue light at night that only makes the problem worse so if someone has a security light getting back to your situation uh that's fine but I would submit to you that you will actually see see better in your surroundings if you're not looking at
the bulbs when those lights go off let the bulbs illuminate the area that you want to illuminate but not your eyes I have a split so I don't know how that would work so geographically I'm
just that's the only incident that I would need to have and also the other question I had was solar lamps like I have on the walkway solar those those I mean those would count as landscape lighting and they're only they're only on are they on all night it depends on
how sunny it was that day I mean that's that's not I'm I'm not the intent of this bylaw is not to go after people's porch lights and they and their um you know their walkway lights to be honest those but those lights but you do have a a requirement that they
can't they have to you can't have them on after so many hours in here correct right landscape lighting would be P lights yeah well how do you enforce that with the it's not actively enforced it's a citizen complaint just like the existing byla is no one's going to go
around at night and be the lighting police if that's the question but you can't have it my question is the point absolutely yeah yeah I don't get it what's the point then if if people can
do whatever they want then why bother there are many many bylaws here in town that are complaint driven uh and and this is just one of them an noise if it's a noise pollution bylaw for example by
comparison uh people can't do whatever they want if it becomes an annoyance or a nuisance to your neighbor or to or to the rest of your neighborhood so the the the trigger for compliance is that you would contact the building
commissioner's office and say my neighbor has a light that is that is causing me to lose sleep at night come and check it out please but you can do that today correct and that's exactly what you can do today it's no different than the existing bylaw just
giving numbers well can I just take it a step further and then the commissioner comes out and tells you you got to do something or else what in the in the bylaw that you've uh that's been distributed it would you would there would be which the other the original one didn't have there would be
a a sequence of of fines that would be triggered after a certain period of non-compliance remember that you have 10 years to comply with this bylaw it's not like this the moment that it's signed everyone has to go running
out and change their lights the the the sort of the the carrot and stick aspect of it is that over time people who are otherwise going to replace their lights anyway would replace them with lights that are conforming I get that so how do you how
do you envision education for the public here in in chelsford would it be series of of um pamphlets leaflets a mailing what do you yeah that's that's a really good question and and it's one that that actually hearkens back to the original
bylaw because it had the same sort of situation I guess if I were uh I think a good first line of defense not defense a first line of of an education would be for the Building Commissioner to alert lighting uh electrical contractors
in town that this bylaw is in place and these are in the in the bylaw that's there it shows um uh conforming and non-conforming fixtures as a guideline um in many cases these are if the if that electrical contractor is actually
keeping up with best practices they probably know this already but the reality is that if I am a homeowner and I want to put up a security light out out outside my second floor I hire a lighting contractor there's no permit required it kind of flies under the radar of all of this until it's
installed and turned on so my hope is that yes that um there would be some um you know I I we could use cable television we don't have a newspaper anymore we'd have a a I can imagine something on the building Commissioners
um the building department's website to to inform people about this uh one of the things that Paul and I discussed was the notion that with this suddenly coming to front and center on the stage that suddenly a whole bunch of people will contact the Building Commissioner
and say hey yeah my neighbor has a really bad light come and do something about it and that is conceivable uh but the reality is that there's been 25 years of of um I won't say lacks enforcement because there really is no enforcement again it's
complaint driven but things have gotten bad and I'm hoping to sort of turn it around and ultimately make things better so if there is a rush on people reporting because this this new bylaw that's put into place um how what how do you envision enforcement being uh done I
a lot of complaints going to be glare and and Edge of property and typically yeah you can you can check lumens at and and tell and temperature with a with a gauge right but you can't check where it's landing and and whether or not it's affecting another property actually you
can if if I stand this is a a a light meter which a professional grade cost about $2 or $300 I'd be happy to lend it lend it to the Building Commissioner I stand at the edge of the property I press one button I get a reading it's either in compliance or It Isn't So is it it's it's going to be in the middle
of the day it's going to be able to read no no no not in the middle that's that's the that's what I'm saying so I I Envision there'll have to be some sort of uh person going out at night to confirm that this light's hitting again the the the sequence
of of enforcement would be somebody files a complaint uh likely someone who's already of Public Safety is who's already out night makes a sort of crude ascertainment boy this is obnoxious no there's no problem here reports that to
the Building Commissioner how and when the building commissioner or someone who that is appointed to do that then goes out and makes an actual measurement is is detail that I didn't feel was uh it was kind of down in the weeds for the VW
I I I get that but that that there is a cost them there is an increased cost that's going to be borne by the town Bo both for compliance and for checking in on those certain things not only by a police officer having to make an extra call but having a a enforcement officer go out and if the enforcement officer
has to go out at night in order to check those boundary issues you're going to have to pay overtime there's no person that's on in and there that can then handle that I don't disagree with that but the existing bylaw has that too and it's okay so then it goes back to David's comment then what's why we
changing it I guess is the is because the the existing bylaw had no standard it was basically a judgment call on the part of whoever is uh investigating that yeah this is this is really annoying you
have to change it or not but it was a sub completely subjective assessment okay how many other towns are doing something like this what is something like this a a a update to this degree of of the lighting bylaw for particularly
for residential so um we we've had this discussion before the the number of changes for residential are very few the there's no long there's no limit on how many lights of residents can have there's no limit on how bright those can
be as was the case before if they exceed a certain Lo limit they have to be shielded there is a there is a limit on whether or not I can keep my porch light on all night right no because that's a security light that's not that's not that's not
an accent light by this definition the I want to have my accent lights to my walkway that are on I think a reasonable person Anita would consider those security lights so you can find your way safely home if your light if you're lighting
the side of your house if you're lighting your trees up you know if you've got and one of the things that has become a problem in a lot of other communities you've probably seen them are these string lights that that are kind of uh party lights um that again
that's not a problem we have here but in many towns there are they are left on all night by neighbors and I the neighbors I'm you the people next door I'm sure are not appreciative of that they serve no I like those if my neighbor leaves them on ridiculous
well then you wouldn't file a complaint but somebody else might you know the then I'm sorry to just to make a comparison If This Were noise If This Were water from your sprinkler system
going onto your neighbor's property If This Were smoke from a fire that you built to burn your brush which you're allowed to do but you can't let the smoke drift into somebody else's yard those are all comparable situations you do you have the right to light your
property you don't have the right to light your neighbor's property okay so just back to my question I sorry if I missed the answer what other communities are going through this proc yes I'm sorry this is pretty uh uh Cutting Edge uh in the sense that
first of all in the sense it's a general bylaw instead of a a zoning bylaw there are about 60 towns in Massachusetts is have that have some form form of outdoor lighting ordinance I deal with a lot of these people my there is an organization called dark sky International there's a
massachusett chapter I'm one of the officers for that and uh I get calls I had a call just today from somebody in Belmont uh which does not have an outdoor lighting ordinance my neighbor's light is is just obnoxious to me what
can I do I get this all the time M so the the the that was where I got the idea to switch from a zoning bylaw to a general bylaw not only to uh uh sort of En encourage conformance from all lighting
but also to capture the municipal side the Utility side uh that have otherwise uh been more or less exempt from that so I would agree that this is this is forward-looking um and one of the things that came up in the discussions with the planning board
is that you know we it's been 25 years since we updated this we should have done this at some point in the past more recently and there's a sort of General agreement that we would take a look at this like every five years to see what tweaks need to be made uh and see where
where things are going this whole notion of color temperature for example wouldn't have been part of a BW that was was um put forward even five years ago but that's what the lighting scien is that's where best practice is going okay
um just in in some of the some of the uh parts of the I have a few questions sure um you have string lighting here as the last definition before there are examples of acceptable and unacceptable uh lighting fixtures um there's no
mention of anything regarding holiday lighting uh at all and I'm wondering if we're capturing holiday Lighting in the definition of a string of multiple lights hung between two points in the original draft of this there was something about holiday lighting okay
and it uh TR trying to uh Define a period of time before and after which it was acceptable to have them up couple of things have happened first of all there are all manner of holidays for all kinds of organized groups religions whatever
it might be uh and so um you know Halloween's big these days and so is that a holiday yes I think so the other thing was that um you know I have tried to be very sensitive to community input and over
the last Christmas period there was a real flame war on Chelmsford news the Facebook page about somebody who made a suggestion about gee maybe you should turn off your Christmas lights after a certain hour and it was not pretty and
so uh I thought it best with planning board's uh agreement that maybe we should just leave the holiday lighting out okay so holiday lighting is not covered by the string of of month lightings uh would it then make sense to if we're addressing all lighting here have some section that says holiday lighting is
exempt no well I think what he just said is everybody got a holiday and it's all oh I understand that he's saying the holiday lighting is exempt but I I read this to say okay lighting lighting lighting here's string lighting that seems to be I mean the the holiday lighting section had been under the
outdoor accent lighting set so are you just doing a flat midnight to 6 have it off yes okay okay I I think that for no matter what your holiday lighting is I think most people would find that that's not
unreasonable I'm not saying one way the other I'm just I'm just saying there's no mention at all and I'm concerned that people are going to look at the string lighting and be calling in complaints about string lighting for Holiday lighting they string lighting is defined it is but holiday lighting is not at all
it's not included I I'm understand what you're saying it's not included but when I look at a bylaw when I look at a regulation when I look at a ruling when I'm trying to give a give an argument on something I look to see what's there and what isn't and holiday L isn't mentioned
at all but string lighting is and string the string lighting says a string of multiple lights hung between two points often used to decorate outdoor spaces a reasonable person could reasonably conclude that that includes holiday Li that's your point yeah that's that is my point and so I'm concerned that you're G
to have a bunch of people calling saying hey I've got I've got uh neighbor using holiday lights and they've got way more than they're supposed to than the two because if you look I mean just at the goie for instance the goie lights um 100 foot string of goie lights um it's 40
lumens per per light there's 73 lights on it that's going to be 2,800 lumens that's going to exceed that definition in this in in this and that would be holiday lighting um and so I'm I'm just concerned that it's not mentioned here and you're going to have a whole bunch of complaints coming in because of that
so so then by by making a specific exemption for Holiday lighting what precludes anyone from saying well these are up because they're holiday lighting yeah that's it was exactly my point it doesn't it doesn't but it it it at least address the IT addresses the complaints
that were come in because it isn't addressed I hear what you're saying if the bylaw were to enumerate everything that isn't covered by the bylaw it would be a lot longer than it is now that that's just one
thing I mean I can think of all kinds of other kinds of lighting uh you you mentioned you know lighting along your walkway some people would consider that accent lighting I would consider that security lightings because I want to be able to walk safely to my
home but if I've got lighting pointing up at my trees I think that's a clearer definition I I I I appreciate and and you know if I were starting this process over again that might be something but again I think that's opening a door to
everybody calling what they've got holiday lighting and therefore getting away with it that's possible would you since this is not say this is your big idea but it is obviously something very near and dear to your heart do you
I know that even though I saw the pictures I like this is okay this is not okay there's drawings people really neat just like would you make a thing for Chan for tele media saying this is fine this is not fine I think that's a great
idea I mean that is one of the best ways we have these days in the town to get the word out and uh I think that's an excellent idea because I'm I'm a little confused what would it would not be and well I'm thinking about lights in my house and how they would bright enough would they would they
pass um the the point was raised about what can you during the daytime um I can look at and the The Building Commissioner wouldn't take long to show the way here I can look at a light and say that's not going to conform even
before you turn it on um there they it's very common with businesses for example to have a light that's on the side of the building that shines directly out into the parking lot to try to illuminate the whole parking lot from the side of the building that's not going to conform I can tell you
that's not going to con just by looking at it during the daytime and so um there are businesses that are that do a very nice job with lighting their parking lots and and there are many that do not and as I mentioned I've had multiple conversations with the Cher Business
Association they're on board with this they support this uh I'm not sure they're going to stand up at town meeting and say we support it but they are they understand and and I want to work with them as well sure okay um just continuing on through the uh through the
actual bylaw itself uh for for new lighting it says all outdoor Luminator is installed in the town CH after the effective date of this bylaw shall comply with the requirements established by this bylaw and this does apply to residential um because it applies to so
is there an exemption for historical lighting so historical fixtures that would fall under facade lighting why but you mean historical design historical design yep as long as it's not more than a th000 Watts thousand lumens it's fine so the burden
will be on the resident that has a lighting to determine what their Lumen you make those decisions every time you buy a light I mean you every lighting package that you buy tells you how many Lums it takes how many watts it takes what its color temperature
is and so yes it's true but the these are kind of the same decisions that you make every day when you buy a light you decide that you want a warm white versus a cool White versus a daylight when you when you go to that uh go to the store
and so I I I'm not you know what I'm asking the businesses and and Residences in in the town to do is from from the point that this goes forward when you buy a light buy one that conforms yeah that makes
sense okay um so what if someone has a a set of set of lights they have multiple Lights of the same fixture one is damaged it said it say has to come be brought into conforming so you're saying that um in order to do that they'd either have to replace just that one or replace all of their Lighting in order
if one part of a set is damaged we're talking fixtures again so most are we security fixtures for example or I mean what do you uh any fixture any fixture that would be in excess of the Thousand lumens that you that are they're in I
mean there's there's the only fixture of that type that I can think of is like a three lamp security light of which you can go down to Home Depot are you thinking of something other than no I'm thinking of wall scones and things like that they go for anywhere from 400 to
12200 lumens um um a wallcon can be shielded I'm saying a lot of people have unshielded Wall scones and so if one is damaged you're saying that now has to come in compliance if you're just replacing a bulb you just replace the bulb no I'm I'm talking about glass on a
on a wallcon it gets damaged you have to replace that but it was only one of a of a set um I appreciate the question yeah I would humbly submit that you're drilling down into this deeper than you need to
because you you're asking I'm asking the people of chelsford the businesses of chelsford to try to do the right thing when they're installing new light am I going to tell them am I going to require them to install it when they put it in no I'm not asking the Building
Commissioner to go out and check every light that's installed on every building but what I am saying is that your 1,200 Lumen wall scun might trigger a nuisance complaint from your neighbor and then enforcement would ensue mhm
agreed uh going to 4.6 with the height requirement yes let's bring it up here that's in the existing bylaw two the 3 the noty 25 maximum L
air height of 35 is a laow for permit that's so the 25 is is currently in the existing okay I was just concerned about whether or not we'd have an issue of compliance where there's no where there's no um grandfathering of any of this and someone has already installed something that's going to be in out of
compliance well um what's new is that uh and this applies to businesses if you if you have I was imagining what's the highest that you can install a a a light on a two-story building and it's 20 ft and that's why there's 20t in there if
you want it to be be higher than 20 ft you can do that but then it kicks over to the IES specifications this is commonly what the planning board would do if you have a developer who comes in and wants to do area lighting in a parking lot for example um there are
there are very detailed specifications for uh H how many lights uh how much how far apart they have to be how bright they are on the ground those sorts of things and those are not required by this they are
guidelines so I'm wondering what happens you have a a neighbor doing the best he can he installs these really nice lights he thinks he's compliant it's summertime the trees are full you know he's checking there's no Shadow the trees the
you know the leaves fall off the trees lots of Shadow so I'm wondering I mean what would happen there you know I mean well I mean it would depend on the kind of light it is if it's over if it's over a th000 lumens for a single light
or if it's over 2,000 lumens for like a two-headed security light mm that's in the bylaw now so but you were talking about uh trespassing like you don't want to light up that that is in that's in
the bylaw now if somebody had a complaint it would be because that light is going over the property into my property or into my bedroom well in in in my example with and maybe I am getting too far down into the weeds or the leaves um in this
Cas um but for only half the year right so then you know the leaves you know the leaves come back it's really up to you as the neighbor whether you find it offensive or not yeah I mean then arguably the person who installed the light I would like to think that they install lights that are conforming if
they don't no one's going there there's no repercussion unless until somebody files a complaint about that a nuisance complaint so if you and your neighbor are cool with that because you like it you know you like your backyard lit too
great for example like I just got my siding done last year put all new siding new lights on my house spent ex I wanted a light on the second floor that overlooks the walkway when you walk in I'm on a dead end Street MH um I know
for a fact and I spent Prime doll I mean Top Dollar on this MH um it's over 5,000 lumus mhm now my neighbor been living there we've you know known them for 20 years now MH never complain but if they move out and I get someone else
yeah they might complain they might complain and cause a stink right next thing you know you have the police out there you have you know this this late enforcement officer I I just need to emphasize that that enforcement exists
now so so I think so I think for me what what is different is that there is some guard rails there are parameters for how you would apply the enforcement and make it fair as opposed to just a subjective determination for whoever the police officer happens to be who's out that
particular night well no because I have a fence that protects my property from the other it's actually an 8ft fence not even 6 foot I'm went eight so that it doesn't trespass right but based off of this bylaw it's still not conforming so
they could still complain they still could complain my my right it's 5000 what part of this are you finding the 5,000 lumens yeah you're a residence you're not it's gone that was in the original draft it's not there now that's
that's in the that's what can for multif family dwellings commercial and Industrial properties and Municipal properties the output of any Lumin a at a height below 20 ft shall not exceed 5,000 lumens that's not you that's only for for uh commercial
multif family um speaking of of compliance it's so demonstration of compliance Kelly um 7.2 yes um it states that any cost associated with such proof of compliance will be paid by the owner of said Lauder
property and I just want to understand the methodology behind that because what what I'm seeing here is you have a have someone complaining about their neighbor and then because your neighbor complained and there could be any reason your neighbor complain it may not be because of the of the um the the light
itself it's because they don't like you um why is that burden being placed on the person targeted uh for for supposedly breaking the bylaw rather than the person making the complaint as as this is WR there are only two if we're talking neighbor to neighbor there
are only two criteria that would trigger a complaint to force compliance okay one is that you're leaving your lights on for non-security reasons all night you're accent lighting okay and the other is that your security light or whatever
light you have is is spilling over onto the neighbors's property Beyond a limit okay and so if the neighbor complains but you're within compliance with the with the the the standards that have
been set the neighbor has no basis for complying if if compliance is required then yes because the person with the light is the one who put up the light and so are you suggesting that
because a neighbor filed a complaint they would have to pay to have their neighbors offending light replaced I I'm just no no cost is associated with with proof of compliance will be paid by the owner of said lot of property I'm just trying to
understand if you're proving if you're proving a negative uh for someone who's made a complain against you why are you bearing the cost of doing that a lot of that would be in the case of a of an um a a commercial property okay or or
property that where where you have and I understand that to a a greater degree where um where it's a it's a it's a commercial issue uh I'm just concerned about the residential complaint um if there if you have a neighbor an onary neighbor making complaint and you're making the person
that's had the complaint brought against them uh pay to prove that they're not right in compliance that they are in compliance rather and and again in the original draft of this there were other standards for residential lighting would
that have been removed okay an attempt to defuse just this kind of of situation as it stands now if I'm complaining about a neighbor's lights I have two reasons for doing that that you just mentioned that would stand up and so
both of those there there really is there's no cost to prove compliance outside of maybe the building inspector or somebody me I'll volunteer to come back out with my light meter and say okay you're now in compliance end of story okay so we're not concerned about
there being a being a charged that's it's going to be burden of the person a residential person in their property you know it it depends I I'm sorry I'm not going to there I can imagine somebody who comes in and builds a mcmansion right and wants everyone to
see every aspect of that home um in that case then bringing those lights into conformance and again we have 10 years to do that but in in the case of a nuisance complaint um if you've designed your lights so poorly that you have neighbors
complaining then maybe I'm missing your point I I I'm not I'm just going to leave that we're not I'm I don't think I'm getting I'm saying you have a neighbor that's just complaining to complain um and so and
that exists pretty regularly um so that was my concern with that but I'm going to leave that for now because I don't think we're going to come to any sort of resolution there um just two other quick ones on prohibitions 108-b um I think goes back to the to the holiday lighting it it prohibits uh any
outdoor Lumin area that dynamically varies its output by intermittently fading flashing blinking or rotating a number of holiday lights do that and there's no reference to Holiday Lights in here I'm just concerned about again there're being complaints made for something that's not covered by the bylaw that was you know that uh the
planning board supported that a lot uh that's a carryover from the existing bylaw okay and in fact I I'd like to point out that the the original bylaw has a l about illuminated signs M and when that's been taken out with the signs now I I understand that yeah um
and then just one inconsistency I'm I'm slightly concerned about with 6.6 luminares used to luminate athletic fields yes it says that um to minimize light trespass on Jason properties must be turned off within one hour after the end of play or
by 10 PN whichever occurs first so what happens if the you know the game ends at 955 you have to shut it off at 10 I'm just concerned about how people get off the property at that point right
um I'll confess that that's a a an unusual circumstance it's more about a set of lights on a on tennis courts that you know people play and then there's no uh
I don't know dog parks or whatever uh that there's there has to be a practical limit it may be that in the next iteration of this bylaw that gets changed to midnight I think that in the case of sports lighting which is so
strong uh in most cases I suspect that neighbors would appreciate 10 versus midnight wouldn't it just be solved by taking out whichever occurs first so the 10 10 hard or the end of
play for event that way you don't have that I'm sorry within 1 hour after the end of the play or 10 p.m. whichever c i I'm not sure I'm following you if if you took out what whichever occurs first it would be within one hour into play or 10 p.m.
so you have a hard cut of 10 p.m. or because a lot of sports lighting is on whether anyone is playing or not well I understand that and what I'm saying is uh if there's a heart cut off at 10 everything shuts off unless there's a game being played right as you
took out whichever occurs first you take out that issue where you end at 950 and you're shutting off the lights and creating a safety issue so on the games when you have a a game that's played at 950 the lights go off later
um by removing that last phrase mind you this is Anyway by removing that last phrase if my little league game ends at 7 p.m. and you get rid of whichever occurs
first then I'm allowed to leave those lights on until 10 p.m. yeah yeah yep yep yep and if there's a bunch of kids who see a baseball field that's empty and they want to do a pickup game of baseball and they why can't they go and
play but I think practically they they most people will if they're done playing shut off the lights it's a little bit of self- policing but understand what you're saying like I'm just concerned about that that safety and I know that that safety issue has been come up come up with public Lighting in places as well is you know are we making sure
we're leaving time for people to get to their vehicles leave time for people to wrap things up so we aren't creating a safety hazard that that's just my concern with the way I mean the spirit of that phrasing was to not have lights left on long after the game ended
literally games don't ordinarily go on until 10 p.m. although I hav played Little League in a long time and so I would that you know I would want I I wouldn't want the lights left on just because somebody forgot to turn them
off we're not going to agree on this but okay I understand I understand yeah yeah I think the church is trying to be pragmatic here I totally agree with a lot of us I live right across the street from Lockheed I wake up in the middle of the night it's light as day in my room because it is so bright and I it disrupts my sleep I don't like it I get
it but I think what we're trying to get here is just trying to be pragmatic right there's certain things that I think people can get around here if we Flex a little bit and simplify a little bit that's that's sort of the sense that I'm getting here um you know the thing
is it's it's been submitted if if you think we should introduce a uh an amendment or two on the floor i' entertain that I think that you're you're creating more problems than you are solving in this particular case by
removing whichever occurs first well we're also trying we're also giving you a nice dry run for town meeting sure of course you've been there you've taped it yes um so there's going to be even more questions we're just trying to be representative of right I appreciate that I
do any other questions yes uh Kelly you indicated you got support from the planning board was there an actual vote taken uh yes there was and what was the uh result of the vote last night the vote was 6 to one okay thank you okay and why the why did the one say
no did they say you can ask her okay who's right here okay well now we now but you already explained so that's good so I am fully um supportive of this for commercial properties commercial um retail prop absolutely I think it's a
great bylaw um I think it's a little overkill for residentials uh for Residential Properties I think it could be a lot simpler um and a lot less technical as a as a businesswoman and executive as a
generation exer stuck between two you know taking care of my parents and dealing with my kids I don't need more stuff on my plate like this is a lot to put on someone to next time I go buy a light I have to be an expert and I've
got to read through this so I mean I just think from like bandwidth we are so bombarded we have so much stuff on our plate that I just don't think it's right to do this to Residents quite frankly and I think it's even on the
municipal aspect of it I think it's a little like I know my kids are like oh you know is there any basketball thing Courts open at night me and my friends can go down and play basketball well if the lights are going to go off they're not going to go play so that's just again 100% for this
for commercial I think it's fantastic I think he did a fantastic job on the commercial side and it's easy and some of our developers have said it like if you handed this this would be perfect we have everything there de developers like to have guidelines on and I appreciate and they're the experts on it they know this stuff and they know it inside and
out but I'm sorry I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with this type of tech technical stuff for lights for my home and I don't want to I always cringe with things that don't don't include your grandfather clauses as well so that that always
MH but I I I I appreciate the the effort behind it um thank you for answering the questions you have any other other questions okay all right well thank you very much for your time thank you and your and your input and your careful reading uh you're right this is these are the kinds of questions I would
anticipate you know uh my first line of defense is remember most of this was covered in the original bio that you've been living with and ignoring for 25 years so are you but then are you saying this will be a tougher one which we can
now can ignore no it's one with with actual standards that you can't ignore I I I still don't um I understand it conceptually I understand the reasons
why but it isn't a zero some job I mean I don't think it's going to you have to hire some for fulltime or anything but it will be impacting there's going to be a financial impact here yeah absolutely I mean just bringing this to the Public's
attention is going to is going to invite I believe all kinds of uh of of complaints gez I've been living with that light I didn't know I could do anything about it people are not moving into any town and reading bylaws you know when when you get your you know welcome to chumford packet is there a
bunch of bylaws in there I mean probably not you know you get coupons to Fishbones and nail salon you know I mean uh so I I I don't think this is something that people will will know how to pay attention to and then for those
that are Sicky like Jim was mentioning ha I can finally get back to my nebor back at my neighbor kind of thing and I think we're going to see a lot of inefficiencies a lot of potentially gross inefficiencies uh you know sending people all around and and our First Responders are are policemen and women
women you know will now need to be involved and I I think that that might be a tall order and also trying to like education of when you buy a light fixture this is what you need that's a that's a that's a pretty tall I mean you did
include pictures but most people will be going is this good or not good and so I think there's a lot more education that would have to be to done to the public like don't be a a jerk to um your neighbors this is what
you should get because there is a law already on there's already bylaw that if your your lights trespassing and causing them not to enjoy their house you could have a problem I don't know if we necessarily have to go this precise I I agree and I
don't I honestly I you know buying porch lights and lights by my garage I've never really read the back of that light as long as it looks good and lights you know what I mean I I don't I've never paid attention to the number of
lumens um I've never you know the color maybe but I mean I you know as long as the guy from Home Depot says yeah you know you're going to you're going to be able to cover your driveway I'm good so but I wouldn't know what that means now in
relation to the to these uh this rule said this proposal all right any other any other questions all right thank you Kelly thank you thank you now discussions No not tonight
okay all right the schedule that's what I'm trying to do got a couple things i' like to slot in yeah hold on come on come on give me a second all right so next one gener is a discussion budget hearing and Springtown
meeting War arle schedule me bring up the schedule classes we go okay this is updated as of this is updated as of today so everything in uh okay yellow's going to go gray and then
next week we'll have the Board of Health uh we'll have Community preservation fund uh Linda Prescott will be here um discuss the fund itself and then I think there's one one article associated with it yeah the
varying of the of the oh oh yes the bearing of the lines utilities yes utility lines um we'll have Deb serani here for the senior center and Council on Aging next week uh Christine will be here for the DPW waste sewer storm and public facilities uh Chief Ryan will be here
for the fire department and then the we'll also have oh for articles we have the purchas 10 dump truck with the DPW and again the there there is suppression the utility lines thank you cendy um and then uh the following week we have
currently slated uh Chief Spence will be here with the police department um and uh J Jay Lang will be here Dr Lang will be here for the uh chord schools going to be a full meeting yeah can you add the MBTA and flood
plane um for next week 320 for next week 320 yeah what about the uh the drive-thru that's PA right that's been presented by the town manager well I imagine if if if by Town manager will if we want will you
guys will the pl PL board be discussing that and and and uh have a determination by next week did we vote on it did you vote on it already yeah we did vote on it you did we did vote on I appr was 5 to Zer with two exensions oh okay that's right we that's
right I abstained so I'm going to add that to go against you that's why 32025 but you're presenting that yes yeah yeah okay so Paul if you could just do a little bit more in depth and we'll have a pling board Chris will be here next week Chris will be here next week
okay just for any input on that I've reached out to Mary Donovan I haven't heard back from her yet um we still have available next week and the week after to do that but I do want to on the 27th really focus on getting our votes and recommendations done um so that we're
done in March I think we'll be in good shape I think we'll be in good shape yeah I think uh the J schools typically last about a about a half an hour maybe a little longer he was pretty uh yeah well you know pretty quick we can drop a note and say read this digest version
yeah and then um uh I think Chief Spence's presentation will be about 20 minutes or so based upon our our discussion on that so um before 7:30 probably 720 715 will be in our recommendations at that point okay but
uh unless Mary comes in on the 27th can um make sure that it just that she's like within the 20 minutes that most other people do their presentations within can we limit presentation time is
that a done thing we don't limit presentation time okay typically um because we want to get as much information and much questions answered as we possibly can this is our time to do it before we make our recommendations has she changed any of her as far as she's not giving you anything new from
from what she's done I haven't I reached out to her I have not heard back from her I have not connected with her so I I don't there's no new information as you know I have no current new information from Mary um so I don't know I've left her a message um she doesn't have email
um so I will call her again um either end of this week or beginning of next week and uh see if she's available um um but I will hold open a spot for her to present but I do not know if there's any new information or not okay um so that covers that and then
after that um we'll produce the book in in the um any any any um our comments uh we'll get those out um the Wednesday before will be the informational session do we is that going to be at the senior center Paul yes okay perfect and then uh
town meeting starts on the last Monday in April and how many how many nights yeah three it's my guess yeah well I think it it'll be three but one of the nights will be cut a little earlier I think
we'll get to a point where someone will say I I move to rejourn because we're not going to get to that article in time type of thing I think but there are think 12 or 12 the consent agenda yeah so that will take out a good portion of
the 32 we're 31 now I think we went down one and this as a town meeting rep years ago and I don't do it anymore that's why John said I could come here and do this instead um still go to town meeting um
is is it presented in the just in the order they happen to come be be done or we can can we do the the tough ones first so typically with something I I think I get what you're saying Ellen um the consent agenda takes a bunch out of
order yep so that consent agenda comes up when we reach that first one that's going to be part of the consent agenda y um the first hour or so on the first night's usually presentations half an hour maybe an hour depending on how many presentations we have then we do the couple of Articles presentations when we
do that um if there's a particular article where there may be more discussion there can be a vote to take it out of order or or to have it start on on a on a different night that's happened in the past where there's been one we know there's be a lot of discussion on and going be a lot of presentation on um sometimes that one
starts the next session uh and and it's it's done with a vote to take it out of order so that's possible um doesn't always happen but that's uh definitely a mechanism to address things like that so you're not starting a really uh and and in in the convert situation article at 10 o' exactly you're not yeah um
typically in that instance either you're taking something out of order or you're convening for the night till the next session are there many articles that are not consent but not big yeah I think there are a lot of articles that are that are that are yearly articles that maybe not not part of the consent agenda
for one reason the other but um usually pass with little Fan Fair okay yeah so okay all right long nights yeah all right uh I don't think we have any public
comment oh look at that running the button I'll entertain a motion to a joury turn moved second all those in favor see everybody next week