It being 6:30, um let's get started. Uh today is Wednesday, September 10th. Um it is the September 10th meeting of the planning board and I'm calling this meeting to order. Um my name is Chris Lavali and
I'm the chair of the board. Uh tonight we'll be following the posted agenda. The meeting tonight is in person and I think we do have a zoom uh set up. Uh but if the zoom fails at any point in the meeting, we will continue in person. The meeting is being televised live and
recorded via chumps or tele media and will be available on their website and YouTube for future viewing. Um we do have two members of the board uh not here right now. Uh Dudra and Joel. Um I do expect Joel to be here uh
shortly. I don't know is you didn't hear anything. Haven't heard from Dear D, so I don't know if she'll be here or not. All right. So, first uh item on the agenda tonight is the manage growth strategy. Uh
tonight, I wanted to go through the task force candidates. um hopefully vote on appointment and then take a look at the uh task force charge draft that I created and then the
scope of work. Um, so if we want to start with the candidates list, um, because of the number of candidates, um, I sent a note out to them saying that they did not have to be here tonight to, uh, introduce themselves,
but I did ask them to provide a, uh, a written introduction uh, that has been attached to the agenda. Um, some people provided it, a few did not. Uh but for the most part the the
familiar faces um we know the new people that I have not met yet um have mostly uh provided feed uh statements. So there are 12 names on this list.
There are four from the planning board, select board and conservation commission, and eight from the strategic plan committee, town meeting reps, 2020 master plan committee, and citizens.
Um, for the record, Dearra is now here. >> Welcome, Dearra. >> Sorry, >> it's okay. Um, so I do think it will be a large group, but there are a lot of new faces on this
list, a lot of new names, and I think having a balance of of people who have been involved for a while and new faces would be a good thing on this task force. Um, so unless
Hi Joel, for the record, Joel is here as well. So we have a full group. Um so unless people have objections or concerns, I think I would like to take everyone into the task force. Um
providing a wide range of opinions and viewpoints. Um some people may be able to make it more frequently than others, but I think it uh provides a good overview. Concerns, questions? Just to clarify,
you're saying basically accept them all individually 12. It's not a huge group. >> I was going to ask there's a line there's a strike through and is did one member withdraw there? >> Yeah. Judy Carvin once she uh found out how many people we had. She's she was
fine stepping back. Um she has been involved in quite a few things. She was fine stepping back to give other people a chance. Um, and she did say she would would like to keep updated and involved on a peripheral basis.
>> I don't um I actually think the idea of all 12 of them because as you said it like if someone's out there's always going to be enough people to share the information, a lot of different points of views. I like that there are some people who aren't on committees who you know trying to get into involved. So, it's giving us
a really good perspective from a lot of different people in town. So, I'm fine with the 12. >> Okay. >> I as well. I think I think that's a good proposal. >> All right. So, make it so >> I will entertain a motion to accept all
of the candidates into the task force. >> Move to accept the slate as presented of candidates for the managed growth task force. >> Gladly second. Motion by Jojo, second by Mike. All in favor? >> I >> I >> unanimous.
All right. Next order of business is to talk about uh chair for the task force. Um Budrey did approach me volunteering to chair. Um, there was also another
suggestion to have Mike and John co-chair as planning board representatives. Um, before I suggest that, I wanted to give John and Mike an opportunity to either shoot down
that idea or >> go running as fast as we can away. >> Good by me. >> Sounds good to me. I think that's what the board if the board decides that it's >> I think if the idea is that the planning board is kind of the steering committee
of the of this board that it makes sense kind of analogously for the >> me the two planning board reps to be the chairs co-chairs. >> Yeah, I think that makes sense and I think it it keeps the continuity between the groups
>> and it also means we don't have a hassle if one of us gets stuck that night. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. All right. So, I will uh entertain another motion. >> I'll move that the co-chairs for the
managed growth task force be um appointed as uh John and Mike. >> I'll second >> motion by Jinger, second by Anita. All in favor? >> I we get to vote. >> Yes, you guys can vote.
>> I unanimous. >> We're voting for each other, I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Um, next item on that agenda is taking a look at the charge.
Um, so what I did is I pulled together um some information from the uh work that we're doing on the uh
strategic plan. I pulled together some of the notes. Uh drafted a rough um charge statement, roles and responsibilities, timelines, and key milestones. A lot of
that may change. Um I figured it'd be a good start to get things moving, have some discussion tonight about it, see if there are any glaring emissions or changes. um and then have that as the basis for discussion
next meeting when we have a joint meeting with the task force. So, next meeting we would have probably a half hour kickoff meeting at the beginning of our meeting. Um, have them talk through the uh the goals of what
we're trying to do. Um, and then kind of kick off the expectations. >> It's a very long timeline. >> Well, it's going to take I think >> Yeah. Um, I think it also may change
depending on when the consultants brought on board. Um, I think that it may change with some discussion within the task force. Maybe stuff can get done sooner. Um, I'd be willing to keep it flexible, but
I think having something out there to shoot for, I do think it's going to be a long process. log. >> I also took some of the dates from the strategic plan as well.
>> Yeah. Evan, what do you think about the um scope of work and the timeline? >> Uh the scope is fine and this is a you know a general high level starting point. Um
when the when the RFP is issued that'll be much more detailed. Um and the timeline just based upon past state grants um contracting state contracting likely
wouldn't be until December, January um at the at the earliest. Um so this is you know it's plus or minus a month or two months. I think it's pretty good. And then like you said, the scope of
work um that I have here is a very high level just to get something down and started. Um I expect the task force would refine this and add more detail to it. Um >> got a a quick comment, just a very quick
comment. You say here the task force should only need to gather data from various sources. I I largely agree with you there, but to what degree do we envision this task force actually going out and scraping some data if it can't
find data that it's that seems appropriate. I think with with John and I on there, we're likely to be able to find all the data we need, but I wouldn't want to bank on it. >> No. And and that statement is it's less about going out and scraping for data. And I didn't want the task force to feel
they had to reinvent >> all of the community meetings and >> Yeah. And I think understood that way it makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah. >> But I wanted to be clear. >> Yeah. I just didn't want this to be another community meeting event. >> Yeah. If we if we just broaden it out too much, we get to a point where we don't get anything done.
>> Yeah. And a a lot of that data has already been collected in various forms uh through um the strategic plan itself. I know that a lot of the um smaller uh offshoots of that strategic plan um have
already started gathering feedback from the community. So reaching out to those groups um for their data uh would also be a good idea, but I didn't want to have to have the task force do yet another survey or
>> community meeting or anything like that. All right. So, if people are good with these drafts, um I'll take another motion to accept the drafts and I can clean them up for uh the next meeting for the >> move to go with the draft.
>> Second. >> Motion by Mike, second by Marcy. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. >> Unanimous. Thank you everyone. Moving on to the housing production plan.
Mola from New is here with us on Zoom. >> All right. >> Hey everyone. Um, do you want me to uh share my screen? Um, Evan, or >> I have the slide the PowerPoint up on the screens in the room. You just let me know when you want me to advance.
>> Yeah. Uh, that's great. Okay. Um, so um in July I was um before you um doing kind of our first run of the uh run through of the um Chumsford housing production plan. And I think we had a good segue in um where you're talking
about uh the data that's going to be used for the um growth management strategy. Um and the this uh housing production plan was one of the uh the sister plans for the strategic plan. Um so it's chalk full of data. Um and I'd
like to u go through um we'll talk today. Uh we go to the agenda. I'll go through a brief in introduction. Um I'll go through kind of some of the comments that we heard from the uh planning board last time and um then throughout the the rest of the presentation we'll be
answering the majority of the questions there. Um and and part of that is what why maintain an approved HPP if we're above the 10% um state mandate. Um we'll talk about the relationship between the strategic plan, the housing production
plan, and the growth management strategy. Uh we'll look at the updated action plan um and then look at other edits that were requested um by the board uh about the at the last meeting and then talk we'll go through the uh
the next steps as well. So I'm Mike Scholola um senior housing planner and land use planner um with NIMCOG. We are the Greater LOL Regional Planning Agency. Uh we have an 18 board uh an 18 member policy board with
representatives from the nine uh greater municipalities. And um the purpose for um for our organization is to help help um increase municipal capacity um and foster uh regional cooperation and coordination um
and provide local um and regional technical assistance. So um the last meeting you can go to the next slide. Um we heard there there basically seven um main uh topics that that we heard. Um we heard kind of the
question is why we need the in HPP if we're above the um 10% requirement. Um we heard that the the managed growth uh strategy needs to be completed before um the adoption of the uh HPP. Um we heard
that the planning board um did didn't um support ADU production as an effort to address affordable housing. um and trying to and moving the needle uh with with affordable housing. Um we uh we heard that there were some more
details that um we that were um missing on the missing middle housing um to support affordable housing. Um there was a question as to whether uh state funding programs were available to support the conversion of vacant office buildings to residential. Uh this is
going to be one of the questions I can answer now. Um and unfortunately that there aren't any state programs outside of uh the city of Boston um uh to convert uh vacant office buildings to residential. Um
then uh Joel brought up a great point um with the legislation uh making changes to um Mass General Law Chapter 60 that affects uh tax uh title repurposing. Um so we we went ahead and uh um made some edits and I'll present
those um later on in the um in the presentation. And then the last one was why do we need to monitor um deed restrictions related to SHI? Um again I can answer that one now. Um there are certain situations where um
deed restrictions have we we have a regional um housing office that we're uh piloting and we have found some situations where um properties have gone into foreclosure and the deed restrictions have sometimes um have gone
away in those properties. So um that's that's one reason why um another is we we have found too that some of the numbers from the state um on the older um projects uh tend to tended to be off a
little bit. So um that and and the the monitoring of that deed restriction program would would be in partnership with the the regional office. Um so when when the um housing advisory board and NIMCOG um started on the the
process to um the planning process for the housing production plan, we knew that the town had um they were kind of on the the precipice of the 10% um threshold again. Um there were, you know, there was a project in the
pipeline that um would come through and actually in two months ago we we received the letter that um the town was over the 10% um because of the um UMass West development uh coming coming online. Uh
so we but this wasn't just a a a checkbox activity. Um we wanted to um uh to address beyond the uh the 10% and and look at um
you know what the community needs are and and look at innovative ways to address the housing challenges that best suited the town of of Chubsford. So um with the maintaining the uh EOHLC housing uh production plan, it gives you
stronger local control. Um it provides a roadmap for the community to be proactive in housing planning. Um it protects against SHI fluctuations. Um there's a every 10 years the um the state produces or uses the uh census
number for units um uh for house total housing units. So for that 10-year period after the census comes out, it's all based on on the figure at um that the dennial census. So
right now we are technically we're halfway through that census. We're still going on the the number from 5 years ago. When they recalculate in 5 years, we're we're probably going to find uh we if if there were no more units that came online, we'd probably slip under because
of the new development. um during that time. Um another reason is it stren strengthens state and regional alignment. It shows uh proactive planning to to the state the regional um agencies. Um
another reason is we that we um we want to maintain an AOHLC approved plan is to plan for dem demographic changes. uh the state and Chsford um have are seeing a population age. Um so it's it's going to
force us to prepare for uh smaller households, aging populations um and and different workforce uh housing needs. Um another reason is it improves um access to funding. It boosts competitiveness. If um if the state's
seeing that you're proactively planning for housing, you may be um more more likely to get an infrastructure grant uh because of that. Um and it it's a transparent process, too. It builds consensus. Um it it makes sure
everyone's on the same same uh plan with housing um housing planning and it creates a a sure clear vision. So the bottom line is that the HPP is not just about checking a box um but it
it's a tool for long-term uh stability, local control, uh promoting fair housing, uh funding eligibility and inclusive community planning. So about um this this slide actually came from um the the uh planning summit
that we had almost a year to the day um at the Elks Club in Chelmsford. Um and this the the um housing production plan was part it it shared part of the planning process with the creating
Chelms's future strategic plan. there were um there's data that was shared between the plans um a survey that was was shared um so they really feed into each other um pretty well we go to the next slide we can see that
the the u vision statements for both plans are are pretty interchangeable um is a community that's building a vibrant thriving community that fosters inclusive diverse and sustainable housing that meets the community and regional needs Through strategic
planning, uh, public private part collaboration, thoughtful development, and equitable policies, the town will expand housing options, including affordable options where people of all income levels can uh live, work, and grow. And the um the strategic plans uh
vision statement is that the town strives to be a livable, diverse, welcoming, and multigenerational community, honoring its history while adopting to a dynamic environment. Our residents enjoy excellence in education, access to open space, and a vibrant
sustainable quality of life. Um, so when we look at the strategic plan, the strategic plan actually specifically mentions the um the HPP um and that it's it's supposed to be part of of the process. Um objective one in
the uh managing growth plan uh requests that the planning board develop a managed growth strategy um which was item uh agenda item number one uh this evening. Um and that the managed growth strategy is supposed to be adopted by um
calendar year 2028. Um, objective three from the strategic plan is to integrate the housing production plan to identify current and future housing needs with a focus on senior and starter options. Um, this implementation is supposed to be aligned
with the the new master plan which I think is in reference to the HPP. Um, and that was supposed to be by done by spring of 2028. um and also the down assessing for um senior and starter homes uh by 2028.
Um the HPP strategy too was to improve land land use regulations and streamline the development development review process. Excuse me. Um there were seven action items that were um under that strategy. Th this would be the only real
place I I feel like there could be um an issue where you have a managed growth plan being in development. Um and then you have the um uh the the action items from the um the HPP which could get kind
of uh confusing, but all of the action items target completion um in the HPP by 2028 to 2030. So um they really that uh the growth management strategy should be
established by the time um any implementation of of any um regulation uh change would be done. Go to the the next slide. So when we look at um
we look at action plan uh this is the um strategy one encourage foster uh public and private partnerships to address the housing needs of vulnerable populations. Um we um changed the language to uh be a little
bit more flexible on the explorer repurposing properties through the the uh actually this this is the one that we um we we changed quite a bit and I'll I'll get back to this one a little bit later. Um
so that's the this was before the tax title. Now it's um the uh Massachusetts rece receiverhip um program and I'll talk a little bit more about that um in a little bit. Um when we go to strategy 2, this is
what I was talking about that you know you can see all the target completion dates. They're all past 2028. Um so there shouldn't be any any conflict with um um developing the the managed growth strategy.
Um some of we did change some of the language about the board's request to um give it more clarity um and direction um with exploring and simplifying or
delineating um on the the third action item there. Um, we added some language to kind of soften the ADU action item um to evaluate the progress and then um encourage the creation if found
necessary. And then we also removed the the planning board from uh being a lead partner on that action item. Again, on the uh the third strategy, uh the third action item down, we um we took
the planning board off of that um of that uh lead partner. And on strategy four, it was pretty uh there weren't any uh real edits to this uh going forward.
So, as part of the um the edits, I I I had given the board a memo with the um the edits where they were on the on the page. So, I'll just go through this now. Um the first edit was adding some some findings um from the strategic plan
survey um trying to tie the plans in together. The second um edit that that was made was we added language about how the HPP could be amended. So in the case that um
there was some kind of um change data change or um that happened through in the uh growth the managed growth strategy process there would be a way to amend the HPP um so they can align
better Um the third edit was adding the section referring to the strategic plan and tying in the um action items from the the strategic plan and how they um how the HPP and um manage growth strategy
are supposed to support and complement one another. Um edit four this is u the the um area where I was talking about earlier with the um that Joel had brought up with the tax title. um
ch the law changing, but we had also um we had also learned about a new mechanism through the affordable homes act that um allows for uh the municipality to um partner and adopt a
receiverhip statute and try and um and repurpose houses that were either blighted or um condemned um and try and it it typically um works more more in urban settings. Um
uh Springfield, I believe, is one of the the first um communities to to utilize this. Um and they've had pretty good success early on. Um other edits, edit five, we added um
there's a new um Mass General law um established uh establishing a 40 Y district. And these are like small um small districts. I think they can be uh like two acres at a minimum. Um and
they're for smaller homes. I think there's a maximum of 1,700 square ft per home per um per unit. Um and there's also uh benefit to the uh financial benefit to the town um when when it's
adopted. Um, edit six was adding cottage courts to um to to a more uh missing middle housing uh typology. Um,
edit seven um again just clarifies uh explore rather than just uh delineate overlay districts um to ensure clarity. Um, and it 8 again gives a little bit
more flexible um, language um, regarding the ADUs. Um, edit 9 is is more for the the uh, the reader. It's the column on the left. It
um it links to the expanded um strategy section directly to the um to the uh strategy that's summarized in the um in the um implementation table and it
gives a more um expansive understanding of of what kind of uh the intricacies of the strategy and and more detail. Um and it 10 just adds the um the board of health and the building commissioner uh
as lead partners on the um the receiverhip statute. Um, edit 11 and 12 both um remove the planning board from the ADU um responsibilities.
And um edit 13 again just more um more language to clarify um uh the uh the action. So, um, with that, I if it's a if, uh,
the planning board approves the, um, the plan tonight, uh, or has any changes, uh, that they recommend, uh, we're we're hoping to, um, to move forward and then, uh, submit to the select board for their
formal approval. Um, following that, if if the planning board approves the plan, NIMCOG will forward the plan and all the um related materials to EO EOL HLC, excuse me. Um, and they will begin their 90-day review process um for plan
approval. Um, so with that, it does anyone have any questions or um would like any more clarification? >> I just just want to add one thing that I think it was John that brought up the uh tax title. The likelihood of my bringing
up tax titles minimum. >> Sorry, my apologies, John. >> No, no, no problem. >> Any questions, comments? >> I have a few. Um, uh, the edits
11 and 12 where you remove the planning board. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Never mind. I the crossout was really small on the actual document, so I didn't notice it. >> Yeah.
>> All right. Um, thank you for making all of those edits and changes and updates. Um, I think that makes a a big difference. I still have some reservations about this
because while I agree with the housing production plan um assessment, I do think that's a valid piece of this. I'm still concerned about the implementation piece of this and the
action items because I still have concerns that we're going to go through the managed growth strategy process and some of those recommendations may be completely contradictory to these action items and implementation plan. And I
want to make sure that we keep that in mind that we're not driving the managed growth strategy from this that we are independently pushing that managed growth strategy forward with what the what the town data
shows and then we can figure out how to balance the recommendations between the two. Um because I worry that if we take too much of the implementation piece of this and pull it into the managed growth strategy, we're going to have a lot of conflicts. Um
>> that's what the that's what the um the strategic plan recommends >> to do what you're saying. Oh, to do >> to to blend it in to align it >> to align the assessment piece of it, not necessarily the action plan or the
implementation strategies. >> Correct. >> All of it. So aligning it may mean that this needs to be realigned. >> Okay. So maybe inherent in this, it should be stated that this is kind of a preliminary document while we're doing a
more comprehensive townwide growth re review and that it will be part of the plan for this housing production plan to review and realign once we have the
overarching town plan. I mean, is there a way we could I don't I don't I'm I don't know that that's inherent in these words on the page yet. >> I think there's some language about editing, but
in general strategy, you define a strategy first and then you define the plan from the strategy. The housing production plan, >> yeah, it goes >> define the plan before the strategy. Now it it was based on the strategic
growth plan or the strategic plan and the master plan. >> But the strategic plan is also saying at the same time that the planning board needs to develop this managed growth strategy to figure out what the strategy is and then inform all of these other
plans. So I want to make sure we keep that into perspective as well as we're as we're creating that managed growth strategy. And I have to say along those lines that you know Nancy said in her little blurb, I don't even know where it is. I thought
I printed it out but I can't find it now about why she wanted to be on the managed growth strategy that at the moment we kind of haven't decided if we want to be a slow growth, a no growth or a growth town. And until we kind of look at that data and make those
determinations, we are kind of forever banging up against each other. And I think that it seems to me like you're anticipating we're going to be banging up against ourselves potentially if we let this be a driving document. This
should be a supporting document once the driving document is made. >> Yep. I also think that after we develop this the managed growth strategy and then
look at this in a new context. I think as a planning board, we also then have to come back and look at some of these action plans to see if the board can come up with a different way of accomplishing what is being stated as a goal because I
there are a lot of these recommendations that I actually don't think would work to achieve the stated goal in this document um based on my experience with this planning board and the zoning. So I think that we should take that
additional step as a planning board after the managed growth strategy is done and kind of look at this again and make some additional recommendations. And if the the the group that developed the housing production plan are okay with all of that, then I would support
um recommending this Other thoughts? I'm fine with adding a statement just saying that you know what that this may need to be revised once the managed growth uh task force completes its work.
Yeah. >> And something to that effect. >> Well, it will need to be reviewed. It may need to be re revised. >> I think we could probably do that in our motion to recommend.
>> I don't think it needs to be explicitly stated in the document as long as it's in our >> motion to recommend. >> I think that makes sense. >> Well, how do they link up though if it's not part of it part of the document? Like how is it recorded? Well, I think there's there is language in here that
will allow us to review and revise. I think it's really more of an internal process as long as the select board is aware that this is what the planning board's wish is that we should revise or review and potentially revise this after
the managed growth strategy is done. I would think that that should be enough. Mike, do you think that would be a good proposal or >> Yeah, I I I I don't see an issue. The only issue I could see is if if there
was a statement in the plan that said um that it it wasn't going to be acted upon until the growth management strategy was completed. Um I I think EOHLC would have an issue with that, but I think the way that it um
it's it's reflected in in the document uh in both documents that they're supposed that there's a relationship between each other um and I think it's um there's language about uh how how to amend the HPP um you know if needed a
after the fact. And I do think that there are some things in here that we are aligned with how we're moving ahead anyway. So I think that those are legitimate areas that we could continue to act on.
So it's not that I would recommend not acting on anything until the growth strategy is done because we're not doing that with anything else anyway. All right. So, any other questions or comments? All right. At that point, I will take a
motion to endorse with the caveat that I had mentioned. I'll move that we endorse the HPP with the uh caveat with the provisals
that we've supplied. Um, >> there you have it. >> All right. Motion by Mike. >> Second. >> Second by Deerra. All in favor? >> I. >> Plan is endorsed. >> Great. >> Thanks a lot. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you, Mike. >> Mr. Chairman, can I just make a um a public service announcement about two uh two projects that are going to be continued because I see some Okay. Oh, okay. All right. Thank you. >> Yes. Um so for those of you who are here for
the Chelmsford Mall project or the Steman Street project um those projects are have been requested for continuation uh without discussion tonight um Chsford Mall to October 8th and Steman to our
next meeting in September. Um we will likely be voting to continue those. So, if you are here for those hearings, um it's likely that we will not >> Why don't we just take them out of order and and move the continuences right now?
>> Uh yeah, it's past 7, so we could >> Yeah, we're good. >> All right. Um I'll give you a motion to continue the Sherford Mall property 265 and 279 Shsford Street uh until October 8th. >> Motion by Mike.
>> Second. Second by Deedra. All in favor? >> I >> I. >> And I'll give you another one to uh to continue the 152 Steman Street um activity until September 24th. I I
presume there aren't any uh legal deadline problems with either of these? >> No. The this the uh steadministry will likely need to be continued again, but the applicant requested it to the 24th. So, >> okay. just as long as we get the right
disclaimers from them. >> I think um so the conservation commission voted to continue that last night as well and they they haven't even heard the initial um hearing yet. So,
they've requested that the applicant either um pull the application or give them a date further out instead of requesting it every week. So I think um that if we are going to continue to next
week or the next meeting um I would make the same request of them that if they are looking at longer de delays that we push it out further and that they give us a a date when they're likely to be
coming back to us. So motion by Mike, second by Deerra. All in favor? >> I >> I. >> All right. >> So, Jackson Road bond request reduction. >> Uh my name is Casey Ferrer. I'm with Howard Stein Hudson representing the
applicant Northstar Realy LLC. Um so as you may recall um over the past two or so years now the the project has been in process of selling the properties that were created as part of that subdivision. Um the initial six sales
were covered um and then additional the additional five sales were covered under a separate bond and then the final sale was covered under the same bond but remaining at the same value. So, the first bond uh I believe was established at about 185,000. Um the second bond was
established at 385,000 that has been fully funded and has been fully funded since I believe December of 2023 or January 2024. Um and that bond has been held by the town since I believe it's through LOL or or
another local bank. But um the request here so in what we've run into is that as part of the last um release that we got for what was lot five um the understanding was the the remaining work to be done was mass work that we were
being held up by with permit issues. Um that permit has since been released. However, we have identified some drainage issues on the roadway itself through us and um in coordination with DPW as well. Um in order for the road to
be accepted, which is our intention and has always been our intention, um we must work with DPW to fix the issues that are related to drainage. And that issue is specifically um from the first lot on the right down towards uh where you have the mailbox on the right hand
side. uh the road does not have sufficient uh slope to drive water to its intended drainage point which is a catch basin further down the road. Um the fix for this is to we have to dig up the road uh regrade that portion of the
road to ensure that it has adequate slope and then reestablish all the features that are around the road in that area. That's raising manhole castings. That's resetting the curb. That's um fixing any kind of uh landings that run into that portion of the curb or into the roadway. And then
additionally, we have to fix any driveways that also connect to that portion of the roadway. Um so, in order to be able to do this, we've reached out to contractors. Um, we do have quotes from uh a contractor now and I've established a uh it's less of a bond
estimate and more of a work to be completed estimate, but I've established that and provided that with this. Um, I know DPW did their own with very conservative values, which is fine given the values that we're asking for. Um, but so our request is to release a total
of $150,000 um from the 385. that would leave a bond of $235,000 in the hands of the town. That $150,000 will allow the applicant uh to um hire a contractor to fix all the roadway
issues. Uh there's a segment of roadway, I believe it's 100 linear feet, just over 100 linear feet. Um and additionally reconnect the other features that would um ideally allow the town or bring the road to a point where the town would be um able to accept it.
Um, additionally, that will also cover the mass dot work that was previously left in the bond. Um, so again, that's requesting a reduction of $150,000 compared to about $70,000 worth of work, and that's just to leave enough in case mass has extra that they want us to do.
They do have a contingency in their permit that we have to identify an issue that's within their roadway. We don't know what that could lead to, which is part of the reason we're asking for extra. Um, so again asking for a reduction of $150,000 and leaving in
$235,000, which that $235,000 again will cover leaving in enough for if the town did have to take it over, the town would still have enough to do it on their own if they had to. >> Okay. Um, we do have a letter from
DPW Read that. Okay. >> Dear members, the Department of Public Works, DPW, previously published a memo dated December 12, 2023 to the planning board regarding Jackson Roads phase 1 bond partial release and how the phasing of the bonds was adjusted and changed to
help the developer. Furthermore, the DPW then published another memo dated January 19, 2024 for additional lot releases and phase 2 bond to be set at 385,000 with the final lot not being released until phase 2 work was 100%
complete. Following these events, DPW published another memo on December 10, 2024 in regards to the final lot release stating that the remaining outstanding work would cost less than the current bond amount of 385,000 because per the planning board decision
on Jackson Road PB file 2020-04 and signed on September 23rd, 2020, it states under section prior to issuance of occupancy permit that all the proposed improvements within subdivision roadway shall be completed completed prior to the issuance of the final
occupancy permit and the asbuilt plan and letter shall be provided prior to the issuance of the final occupancy permit. Neither of these points were fully satisfied. The decision on allowing occupancy of the two remaining units was left up to others outside of DPW. Since this last memo published on
December 10, 2024, there has been no substantial site work completed on Jackson Road. On September 3rd, 2025, the DBW was requested by Evan Balansky to review Howard Stein and Hudson's request for another bond reduction. The DBW suggests that the planning board
review the previous three memos discussed above about the bonds that have been in place previously. To DPW's understanding, the town currently holds a $385,000 bond for the Jackson Road subdivision. The current request is asking for an additional reduction of
$150,000 so that the bond could would have a remaining value of $235,000. The DPW has been told that this is intended to cover consultant and contractor fees to bring the roadway to a town acceptable standard. The DPW has been working with the designer Casey
Ferrer at Howard Stein Hudson to get an approved plan to fix the deficiencies in the roadway and driveways and square the removal of the old driveway within Mass DOT right away. Up until September 9, 2025, it was DPW's understanding that
Walton Paving, who was an approved licensed contractor in the town of Chumsard, was going to do the work until they rescended their permit with the DPW to complete all this work. Further discussions between DPW and Walton Paving made it seem like Walton Paving
may not be doing this work at all. With that said, DPWs put together an estimated cost of completing the project and can confirm that the estimate to complete the remaining work and bring the roadway to a town acceptable standard comes in less than the than
that of the proposed remaining bond value of 235,000. Due to the uncertainty of whether this work will get done and by what contractor, the DPW suggests that if the planning board agrees to reduce the bond by $150,000 for the purpose of covering the costs for consultant and contractor
fees that it does not get reduced until the following occurs. There are three items. One, a signed contract between the developer and contractor is provided to the DPW and planning board. Two, a meeting between a representative from the DPW, the contractor, the designer,
and developer have an on-site meeting unless it is Walton paving because this meeting already occurred with them. Number three, permits are pulled and fully approved at the TPW to complete the remaining work as shown in the attached breakdown.
>> Thank you. Do you have any >> So to that um I did read that letter and I um do agree uh with the recommended conditions that Trevor has established. Um number one being having a signed contractor presented to the DPW and the
plane department between the developer and a um contractor. Uh number two a premeating. Um obviously we would like to have Walton on board as we are we feel that they were uh had a deep knowledge of what we were intending to do. Um we will continue to try and work
that path. Um but if there is another contractor that ultimately has to be selected um we will have that premeating with them. And then number three their their permits and fees and all their licensing must be up to date for the town of Chsford. Um we were happy to offer that as a um condition of the
release. Uh if this board chooses to vote to release it conditional on that, you know, we can provide all that to DPW and the planning department and then the funds can be released once those conditions are satisfied. >> Okay. >> All right. Thoughts, questions, comments
from the board? I have some concerns because it said in that first paragraph that there were other conditions that neither of these points were fully satisfied. It said prior to the issuance of an occupancy permit, all the proposed improvements in the subdivision roadway shall be
completed. And then it sounds like they don't. Does the DPW have asbuilt plans or do they not? >> They do have asbuilt plans now. >> And they do not show obviously there is work to be completed. So that what's not shown on those as plans is the future work that we have to complete. But they
do have asill plans of the current condition of the site. >> I mean my thought is we meet in two weeks. Could we could you do what DPW is requesting on all of those points and then come back to us and ask us to vote the bond reduction because I get a little concerned voting a reduction and
then when stuff isn't going on and then it sounds like the the contractor may or not be chosen and it just seems like it's kind of premature to to ask us to release this because it's protecting the town, >> right? So the idea would be that the release doesn't actually occur until
these conditions are met. So, if they if they actually if we meet those conditions in two days, then that's great. Um, that's our goal is to have this ironed out before today. Uh, we've had a couple hiccups in the past couple days. Um, we would like to have it ironed out in the next couple days
ideally. Um, so we do not wish to wait two weeks. We would like to have the funds voted on so that once we do achieve those conditions, then we can have them ready uh to fix this. So, you're pretty confident that you can accomplish those three things before the next meeting?
>> That is our goal. >> Okay. >> So, you getting >> I just Yeah. Well, I just agree. I agree with John. I mean, this thing has been going on since 2023. Things still haven't been getting done. And I'm not understanding why you can't wait
two weeks to see if you can get these things handled. >> Well, so there is a deadline, right? So, the town does not allow us to pave post a certain date. Currently, that date is November 15th. Um, paving companies will not schedule you until they have their deposit. So, if we can't have these
funds and available to uh give to the contractor once the contract is signed, we cannot get on the schedule. Those schedules are already pushing out to November. So, if we can't have them available for when we need them to get that deposit signed, then we won't be able to get it done this year.
>> I have a question. Am I understanding correctly that how we got to this interval between 2023 and 20 and today was in part because we're waiting on Mass DOT and their timeline. >> The original portion of it was so back
between early 2024 to late 2024 we were in Mass DOT permitting where they wouldn't allow us to do the work on their property. Um and that was due to a number of different issues. One of which being um an unidentified drainage issue that is not believed to be due to us, but since we're the last people in the area, they want us to attempt to fix it.
Um so identifying how to get in there, how to identify what the problem is, and what we have to do to fix it has been a portion of that coordination that has since been resolved. And what has come up since then is this drainage issue that's on the roadway itself.
Is this drainage issue that still needs to be resolved a consequence of erroneous engineering on the original plan? >> Actually, they did not. The roadway was supposed to be sloped at about 1% to promote positive drainage from what is lot 7 or the first unit on
the right down to the catch basin or the crest that comes down to the catch basin. It was paved at approximately 0.05% 05% uh not the 1% that it was designed at. So what ends up happening is water flows down towards that area, hits that flat spot and stays there and
it doesn't move towards its intended purpose until it stages up, which means it ponds up until it overflows the part the portion that's not sloped. >> Any other questions? Yeah. What was the reason that Walt and Paving rescended
their permit with the DPW? >> I'm not privy to that information. I believe there's between the contract of the developer and them. >> Just wondering if it has anything to do with money because if they're saying they can't get a company until they can
say that they can secure funds. >> Well, I mean, how much are we talking for deposit? the full 150,000 because it just seems we're focused on that as the sole funding source. Like does the developer have any other funds that they can use for the deposit? >> I do not know. I know that we have been
basically in this standstill trying to obtain a contractor that can do the work. The contractor needs a deposit and that's why we're here trying to obtain the funds to be able to provide that and do the work. >> Casey, I've got a question about that. >> Sure. If we don't release the funds but
until these three things are met and the paver is looking for the deposit. I can't imagine that they would accept the deposit after per permits are pulled. They would need the deposit before.
Right. >> No, because they can pull their permits to be a licensed contractor in the town of Chsford. So they could do so you guys could get all three things done with the contractor and then put the deposit in.
>> Right. So if we know that the funds have been voted to be released upon the condition of these three, the contractor uh if they're not already whoever we choose is not already a licensed contractor of the town, the contractor would then proceed to become a licensed
contractor of the town because that's also on their behalf as well. It's not just specific to the project. >> I just want to make sure that that the contractor would be willing to do all of that work, the signed
contract, the meeting, the permits, and the approval by DPW before they even get a deposit. >> The the premeating of the of the DP. Yes. So, I mean, we did a premeating with this company well before the contract was signed as well because
they're doing their due diligence on the project to figure out what they need to do. >> All right. >> Any other thoughts, questions, comments from the board? As long as conditions are in place, I think it's reasonable. >> Given how long this has been dragging on
um and the issues that the neighborhood has had, I am willing to entertain um some public comment at this time from the neighbors if people
would like to speak. Yes, please uh state your name and address for the record. >> Uh hi, uh my name is Dmitri Meditz. I live on 15 Jackson Road in Chford. Um so I'm member of this community and uh this
is indeed been going for quite a long time. Even my driveways they tried to read it three times already. Uh with this attempt going to be first time. Uh so I really would like to the board to consider that whatever contractors they
choose it's actually let's say uh certified proper contractor who can do the job because previous attempt felt like just some handwavy without any plan attempts. Uh hope that makes sense. >> Okay thank you.
>> Uh and also if that possible like I know that they not asking to release all of the money only portion of it. uh if board entertains to release the money for this attempt so that you still have enough money to can afterwards to fix it
by I know means of the town uh if they are not able to uh and have some deadline for that work >> because it's already two two years past. >> Yep. Okay. Thank you. >> I have one question for you. Uh if this
if somehow this doesn't get done this year because of our decision, would you rather it be done this year or is it make a difference whether it's done later as far as how it impacts you? >> Uh this year um I I wouldn't make a
decision for the whole community. Anybody has >> I'll just add some comments on that. It's just >> come to the come to the mic please and identify yourself. Ang can you state your name? Can you state your name and address please for the record?
>> The name Angress is 24 Jackson Roads. Uh so I I think the main consideration here is uh only that uh our HOA kind of takes care of all the snow removal and everything. So we're kind of paying for
that, right? But if the road is then turned to the town, then the snow removal becomes part of the town which is part of our property taxes, right? So sooner would be better. >> Um I mean in in logistical point of view.
>> Um again that's I can't state for everyone but uh I think that's some part of the consideration. >> Okay. Reason I'm asking is because I'd be inclined to vote no, but if if the benefits if the residents actually felt it would be a benefit to them, then I'd
be more inclined to say yes because I figured you guys need a break from this. >> Yeah. Second point to add to that because they still hold power over HA we can't make any decisions like a lot of people want to make some changes in the
backyards and we cannot because they absent they not responded to us. >> Okay. Thank you. >> One more thing. >> Um, another thing to what you said though, I mean, what's the likelihood of this getting done this year? If they're saying that they have to do all of these
tasks, like will you be able to get it done by November, mid November? >> Yeah. So, our goal right now and a date that we had secured was early November, right? We've since lost that date. Um, so the quicker we can act to secure a date before November 15th is exactly
what we're trying to do. Um, and getting this done prior to the end of the year will set us up to allow the town to take over this road come springtime meeting. That is our goal. If we prolong this, and we cannot do it this year due to the paving season closing, we'll have to try
and get it done prior to um the spring town meeting next year, which is unlikely to happen with all the after stuff, right? We have to do as we have to review it. We have to have the town review it. We have to get a road acceptance plan put together. um then it has to go through you guys has to go
into town meeting. So there's a lot that happens after it too. So we want to try and get the physical labor of it done as soon as possible so that we are set up for town meeting as soon as we can. Um and you know I know the residents are frustrated. Um but ultimately the faster
we can get this road accepted the faster they don't bear those responsibilities. >> I have a question for you Evan. If we approve this with the conditions, can we also set a deadline for when that paving
needs to be done and then increase the bond again if it doesn't? You can you can attach a time to act on your bond release. Um the second part, no. Okay.
>> There's no automatic um you know percent increases. Um the the way we've historically handled this is the board asked DPW to provide a bond estimate and that's exactly how it's gone.
>> If if you're suggesting that if it doesn't take place in the fall and there's a a price increase come springtime. >> That can be part of your motion. >> Do we charge them interest like or some sort of penalty to cover this? No. In
fact, paying ho HOA fees to cover their fees. >> No. No. The bond the the bond serves as a performance guarantee >> uh to complete the incomplete work and only the incomplete work. Yeah. It can't
be used for any other purpose. >> What does the language sound like if you say that you're including for increase of percentage if cost goes up? I don't think you need to include that in the sense that if you have a uh a time to act, let's assume it's November 15th, if
they fail to if they fail to act, um then if they when if and when they come back for additional funds, there's a new bond established. There's I'm sorry, there's a new bond estimate established for the
for the work to be complete. Um, and then the board would have to consider uh releasing uh more money if more money is needed. >> But my my question though is it sounds like they're saying that they need this
released to pay for the down payment to get it to happen quickly. >> They need it for the not only for the down payment but for the full >> the full value of the work. Right. So my concern though is that if we release it now to get things moving quickly
>> and it doesn't happen before the winter, then we've essentially lost the ability lost the leverage for that. >> Um >> once the bond is released, right, it's
it's a it's a it's cash back to the developer. Mhm. >> Um there's still 225 >> 235 >> left. 235 left. >> Um in theory, once the developer uh satisfies all of
the DPW uh requests, they're legally entitled to 100% including interest of the remaining bond fund. So there's still incentive there. Um, the only way to address what you're
referring to is there's like partial releases based upon the payments that the contractor is is due. >> Now, they have to show us proof that they're paying people to >> Normally, we don't handle it that way.
Normally, we just we write them a check and cut them a check. This is a this entire setup and situation is fairly unique. Um, so could it be handled under your scenario where >> I've done that in corporate America. We've done like
>> it likely could be handled that way. >> That means we only release what they show us that they're paying. >> Yeah. My concern with delaying this, even the two weeks, is if they if we delay and they don't get
it done before the snow season, that ponding that's occurring creates an even more dangerous >> situation for the residents. um and more costly because they're going to have to put a lot more ice down uh snow melt
down or ice melt um to take care of any ice that's created. So, I'm a bit torn. What if we were able to add a condition
that the work was to take place prior to the close of paving season at before the money got released, we'd have proof of that from the intended contractor. We'd have to work with them because they want their deposit prior to getting a schedule. Um, but if I can get them to
commit that they would be able to do it, um, then the money wouldn't be released until we have that schedule for you or for DPW and for the planning department. >> So, they would have to commit before the deposit >> that they could get it done before November 15th. I don't want to have them
try and move around clients without the deposit because that's typically what has to happen in the end of the season to be able to make it happen. They'd have to open up dates. I don't want to have a contractor move around people and then we ultimately don't end up getting it and then they lose the business that they had intended. But some kind of
commitment that they could get it before the close of paving season. I could provide that in writing. >> I would be comfortable with that. >> But what recourse do we have if the contractor says they committed to
>> Well, I mean they still have $235 in the bank of Chelmsford that they would like to get down the line sometime. But doesn't it doesn't it also say on those conditions that it doesn't get reduced until they meet the conditions. So if they're not meeting them, it doesn't get reduced. >> Right. >> Right. I mean that's
>> remaining 235 would not get uh released. >> I mean there is a risk that like Anita said the develop the the contractor could send a letter of commitment and then back out of that but I would hope they wouldn't if they want to keep
business. I'm going to make a motion that we accept the request for the bond deduction with the caveat that we need >> a letter of commitment from the contractor >> and um that they can get the work done
by November 15th >> and the three DPW >> and the three DPW W conditions will be met. >> I'm certainly good with that. >> I'll second that. >> And then I'd like some discussion before we actually vote. >> Yes. >> Okay.
So, uh motion by Adidra, second by Anita. >> We can't have a motion if we're going to have discussion. >> Yes, you can have discussion. >> Discussion on the motion. >> Okay. >> Joel, uh I just want to say that I'm
most reluctantly going to vote yes. But I'm very very reluctant to do it. >> Can you talk into the microphone? >> Yes. >> I just didn't hear what you said. >> Okay. I said I'm very reluctant to vote yes, but I'm willing to vote yes
primarily not for the benefit of the developer, but for the benefit of the neighbors. And I think the conditions ordinarily I don't I don't agree with voting with conditions when you could have the work done and then just approve the work that's done. But in this
particular case, I understand also I think that generally in the background when it seems like you know uh the problem have their problems are to get it done and then they say oh yeah it'll be get done it's automatically something
that you question but nonetheless you know I think that it makes sense to vote yes. So >> yeah I mean I would agree with you on all of that. I I myself am reluctantly going to vote yes for the same reasons. Um I hate voting with conditions. Um I
usually don't and would never propose it, but um I do think that this is a unique situation. All right. All those in favor? >> I opposed. No.
Anita is opposed. Everyone else is in favor. Uh, it passes. >> So, we'll be in contact with client and DPW to get those conditions taken care of. >> Thank you, Casey. >> All right. Next item on the agenda, 10
Independence Drive. Sead applicability. Good evening, Mr. Chairman and board members. Uh my name is Hushman Davar from Taj Engineering here in town. Uh the
uh proposed project is basically the uh continuation of uh phase two of the uh phase one. after the phase one which was the
uh conversion of the u right wing of the uh what used to be known as Rison hotel to a adult daycare on the first floor which is under construction currently right now and the remaining space on the
first floor next to if I can get the first floor please which which way on the screen first or >> right there. That's good. Yes. >> So, um
all the hatch area here is the project which is already approved and it's under construction. That's the adult daycare. The remaining space which we had said during the approval process for adult daycare to be decided is proposed to be
a 32 seat uh pizza restaurant pizza par. This is on the first floor and then on the second floor um we are proposing uh 15 uh apartment. 12 of them are uh
two bedrooms uh two of them are um one bedroom and one of them is uh threebedroom. Um the site plan um is already all the
parking for all the uses uh including the hotel. of the new hotel, home to hotel is uh already being assigned and designated according to the bylaws and
the existing uh utilities are being utilized again which was in service during the uh active uh Rison hotel. As you know this part which is being converted into apartments
used to be conference rooms, meeting rooms on the second floor and same thing on the first floor uh under this floor which is now pizza place is being uh proposed used to be ballrooms.
>> So the use of in other words the use of people crowd uh was already uh present at this site. Um the topography is not changing at all. The
drainage patterns are not changing at all. Uh there will be probably some cleaning and resurfacing and restriping will be done. New islands will be put which is shown on the site plan. Um
and this is the parking table and parking calculation. Uh spaces allocated uh to each use is pretty pretty much very much designated at the site which we assign for example here nine adult
daycare and so on so forth accordingly. Um in nutshell this is what is being proposed. >> So where would these people be parking? In the back or in the front? >> Which people may >> the for the apartments? >> For the apartments they will be mostly
in the back. That's correct. Okay. >> They will have an access in the back. Each use has actually more than one access throughout the building. >> So there is handicap parking. There are fewer spaces for electrical vehicle and so forth.
So, where are the access areas for the apartments? You said, can you point them out? >> Yes, there is access for the apartments in the back here. >> Okay. >> And also there are hallways that you can
get in from from in front, but they're mainly there are accesses from the from behind the building. >> Okay. And what about for the pizza shop?
>> Where would the access be for that? >> Right here. There's a shade vegetable >> right here. And and still there is access again in the back through these set of stairs. >> And where is the access for the adult
daycare? >> Uh right here. >> Right here. The main entrance for the adult daycare coming in. And this is their their area which is completely the black line shows the separation of the
two uses. This heavy blood line >> okay you repeat I'm sorry I was looking at the drawing and it's it's dense. Um the the apartments it's 12 how many bedrooms?
>> 12 apartments with two bedrooms. >> Okay. >> And two apartments with one bedroom. >> Okay. Thank you. And then one three >> one apartment with three bedrooms. >> Okay. And these of these 15 apartments um
there would be a um affordable component as this is being proposed under the seoid. >> Yes ma'am. The the we had actually a meeting before this meeting with the head of the departments and the town planner Mr. Zulanski and uh that was
pointed out and obviously agreed upon and a few other issues which was points which was pointed out by all the department heads. Mhm. >> A traffic memo was requested which was prepared. Actually I have it with me
tonight >> and it actually just before I think before the close of the day I think 5 p.m. I was able to email that traffic memo to >> I have it. >> Yes. >> So I mean am I right? It's 25% affordable. So it would be 3.75 units.
So four. >> Yeah. Amir's 40b rentals 25%. Let me round up. >> Just some additional flavor on that departmental meeting. Um there was discussion about adding a bus
stop. The applicant was directed to coordinate that with the school department somewhere in the >> culdeac. >> We should Oh, >> that's fine. Uh there was also some discussion about um to what extent would
this full redevelopment of the site this is phase two of a phase one um would warrant um exploration of some improvements along uh Alpine uh road I think it's Alpine Way or Alpine Road >> lane
>> lane that is a uh townowned road uh not very traditional um town-owned road with the um ornamental lights and the culdeac and things of that nature. >> Um so that was a an item of um of interest from DPW.
I had asked if the restaurant was over 2500 uh square gross square feet. If it is that the restaurant would require a special permit. We talked about seoid uh for the 15 residential apartments and we we've talked about affordability. The only other highle item that was
discussed was make sure you have enough trash compactors and trash uh uh recycling for all the multiple uses and then bringing the entirety of the site uh up to uh current standards, landscaping, lighting,
>> stretch code. >> Think well just like planning board business. >> Um you know see where you can add more trees within landscape islands. Mhm. >> Uh bring it up, you know, bring it up to uh to current standards. >> Electric vehicle charging.
>> Yep. That was discussed and the the stretch code stretch code requires that >> maybe some solar. >> So So and then um there were discussions about some of the um um sore impact fees uh you know so the applicant's well aware of the the fees that would be
associated with it and as the board knows this is the first step. Yeah. uh within the uh the CO process >> and the restaurant is it what is the size is it >> the restaurant Evan said there was a conversation of whether it would be in excess of
>> if it's over 2500 gross square feet it would require a special permit >> and is it >> I believe it is >> okay >> and if I saw correctly there's a meeting room in the back >> I was just going to ask that >> part of Mhm. >> It's an ancillary building. Anybody can
use it. It is not part of the per se. It's not part of the really uh pizza restaurant. No, but it's there. It can be used upon request.
>> Okay. So right now we're only talking about say applicability, but when we do get into some of the more projectbased stuff, that would be something I would want clarification on. Is it going to be part of the pizza business? Is it going to be something
separate? Is it going to be >> um because that will impact parking requirements and >> things like that. Um, the other thing I would request as part of the project side of this is to
potentially rethink the parking allocations and where they are because you've got parking and uses crisscrossing. Um. >> Mhm. >> You've got the
pizza parking not even close to the pizza restaurant and the adult daycare in front of the pizza restaurant when they're going to have to be a little bit further away. So, I would
rethink parking allocation. Um because I think as part of the project I may want a little bit more clear signage for patrons of the different uses because you've got so many uses in one complex space. >> So that's something to think about as
you move forward. >> It's a it's a large site. I mean obviously the >> employees will go all the way to the end of the site somewhere here >> and priority in terms of proximity is given to adult daycare. >> Mhm.
>> Um and then the we cannot pile everything. >> No I know >> everybody. So the the hotel residence will be more in this area which which we had tried to show. But yeah, once we get
into those nitty-gritty things, we can >> Yep. >> look at your comments. >> Any other comments from the board and just >> want to clarify something? The chair, >> can you come to the Sure. >> Thank you. >> I should Patel, one of the reasons why
we put the adult AK parking because primarily they're out by 4:00. >> So those spaces won't be needed after 4:00 and the and the restaurant usees primarily after that. So there's a thought process put into business cycles of the spaces being
used. >> So okay just to give some feedback. >> Thank you. >> And I maybe missed it is would this be com completing the development of the property or is there still additional >> I believe this will wrap up all of the
square footages in the building. You do you do speak about the smaller space in the back that's currently labeled as meeting space. We have kept it as is because we've kept all the access and egress to the room. That room can be used for as a community room as a as a
room for the apartment uses upstairs. They can book it if they need to book it, for example. Like we're keeping that open because it's a it's a harder space to get to from a commercial standpoint, >> but it's an easier space to get to if somebody in the building wants to use it, right? So that's why.
>> Okay. We do have nine additional spaces available per the calculation that could be allocated to that meeting room if need be >> if there are any visitors. >> Correct. >> Okay. Any other questions or comments? At this point, I'll take a motion.
>> You've got it. I move that we uh uh grant or that we determine CO applicability. >> Motion by Mike. >> A second. >> Second by Deerra. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I.
>> Unanimous. Thank you. a special permit for the restaurant piece. When you're ready to submit, just let me know. >> Yeah. >> And then the piece, you give some direction. >> Yeah. My suggestion is you speak to
>> your attorney who helped you with the [Music] >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Next on the agenda, 133 Princeton Street, new public hearing
for major modification application submitted by Clahan LLC to the previously approved SEAD special permit and site plan review to permit a new rooftop floor to be used as an event space and any other zoning
relief that may be required. >> Mr. Chair, members of the board, good evening. Uh Douglas Duchaine from M Pinner and Nicholson representing the applicant. Uh here with me this evening, excuse me, Katie Enright and Casey Bur from uh Howardstein Hudson. Um we're
here this evening to discuss the modification uh application that was before you. Um, as you will recall, um, Howard Stein Hudson and myself were part of the original, uh, approval team. Uh, so the
applicant has asked us to come in and propose, uh, or discuss the proposed modification, which I understand were necessitated by um, some proposed uh, plan changes that uh, were identified
during construction. Um, as I understand and um I Casey and uh excuse me, Katie will be able to give you uh more detail. Um there have been a number of modifications to the architecture. So we want to present that. And I also
understand there have been some uh minimal uh relatively minimal changes to the site plan itself. However, I am also understanding that in some cases those uh changes have resulted in a more compliant project. So sometimes changes
can be for the better and I hope you'll agree that some of these are uh so with that um like to turn things over to Katie Enright from Howard Stein Hudson. Thank you. >> All right. Um good evening everyone. Katie Enight with Howard Stein Hudson. Um and I believe Bob France the builder
is online. Okay. >> Um so we were contacted a couple months ago. Um the project ran into um some issues with um the building inspector and Evan was alerted um and we were brought in some changes to the plan that
had been done between site plan approval and starting and initiating construction. So, what we've been able to do is sort of catch up with that and kind of put together um a a description basically as to how we can sort of
comply with zoning and what's changed really from the previous plan to this plan that's before you today. Um one of the biggest things that changes changed is there's no longer a basement or lower floor for the building. That was removed
um as part of construction documents. So actually that 12,000 square ft of building that we had originally come in here um and requested for warehousing has been completely removed from the project. Um so the building itself has gone from um 35,952
gross square ft to 25,028 ft. So again we had sought special permits for this project relative to its size. Um the building is getting smaller um as far as that full 12,000 square foot floor. What we have done though is
what the what the owner wanted to do was add an additional sort of room on the top of this building. Um that room is adjacent to an the elevator that's in the building. It goes up the elevator comes out onto the roof. there's a room
associated with the elevator and then there's essentially this little sort of event space that he wants to have out there. So there's and it's only about the the balcony, we'll call it a balcony with the elevator and the little room totals about a thousand square feet. Um
so there's this room on top of the building. Now one of the things we were concerned about when we started to talk about this with the architect and the builder was the height, right? So we wanted to make sure we were under that height. So, we've worked with the architect and the owner and the builder to essentially make sure that that meets
zoning. So, we've done a calculation of the spot grades around the building that have been proposed to garner an average grade around the building. Um, and then we've looked at the height of that balcony structure, but it's roofed to
make sure that that's under the 45 ft. And I and I have a calculation here. It's actually just under 40 feet. And that's based on the calculations. So it's not actually that tall when you look at it from the front of the building because it drops down in the back because of flood plane. We have to add 2.75 ft to the overall average
grade. So it's actually lower when you look at it from the street than that 39.75 because we have to add that sort of dip in the back to get that average grade because that's how building height is um basically calculated um in the town
of Chsford per the zoning bylaw. We had also requested a pretty significant reduction in parking um based on the amount of square footage of retail. So one floor is retail um and then we had two floors essentially of warehousing um
because this specific business wants to have a lot of product. Um but we weren't really looking to put employees in there. It's really just place to store product. Um, so we didn't really need it to park any we didn't really need it for employees really. We only needed the
parking for the store, but because of the zoning regulations, we had um needed 87 parking spaces in the previous iteration and we had 52 proposed. We haven't changed the amount of parking.
We still have 52 proposed um but now we have 70 required. So, actually, as Doug said, we're actually more compliant than we were in the previous application. Although, because of the change with this with this rooftop area, we wanted
to make sure in talking to Evan and certainly in talking to Jose, your building inspector, we wanted to make sure we were asked to come back to the board and sort of explain that. So the idea is that based on the business, they would like to have invite only tastings
up there. And so it wouldn't be open to the public come to the roof. They can't do that. It would be this many people can fit up there. Um we've spoken to the architect about the number of people was it was 29 people based on fire code is
the most that could be up there. Um certainly we have a new fire letter. We would have to meet all of those requirements. It's not the intention to have any sort of food processing type area. Essentially, they get a new product in, they want to invite their
best clients to come try it out. They'll be invited to the roof during a certain period of time. Period. Um now with that, we've calculated that area as essentially a retail space. But when you think about the floor that's now not
there required 21 spaces. Um so we have those 21 spaces now that essentially could be for sort of that rooftop area. And again that's not going to be something that's all the time. It may be during business hours. So there's still that 12,000 square foot store and that's
um gross not net. So portion of that which is store. Um, also one of the things that they added based on the use of the business now is an front awning. And so we had to update our site plan. Um, and it's pretty
minimal based on as far as the site changes based on this front awning because the awning essentially since COVID, I guess people like to order stuff online and they like to back up and not be in the rain or the snow and get their product delivered to their
car. And so the awning got um larger so that it's now not only over um our ADA spaces, which is also a nice feature, but it's also over a few additional spaces and that's for those um people that come in that are looking to get product. Um somebody from the store is
going to run that out and put it in their trunk and they're not going to have to be in the weather. Um so we've updated the sidewalk in the front of the building and some landscaping in front of the building. Um, to go back, I know I've been scrolling through architecture while I'm talking about the site, but
some of the windows changed from pre-to post as far as placement. Um, >> where do you want me to go? >> One of the door changed. You can be here. I mean, I don't think I don't think honestly like if you look at the Do you have the side by side? Does Evan
have the side by side? >> You sent it. Is the top the old and the bottom was the new? >> Yeah, you proposed right side. Original, original. Yeah, top and bottom here. It just looked different when I looked at it earlier. So, original proposed original
proposed um so you can see like we didn't need basically as many windows um here. Um so, you can see the difference here to here and here to here. So certainly Evan also thought it was something to bring to you since
we're here anyway. >> That's the front the left right there to the >> you proposed front elevation, right? So this is actually not at the front of the building. It's like down the side a whole truck's length. So >> if you look at the site plan, there's like a jog. >> Yep. Yep. >> Because the truck goes around, comes up,
and then backs into that loading area here. So this isn't at the face of the building. This is at the face of the building. So, this door used to be on the side of the building, the other side, the left side. This door used to be on the left side of the
building, like here on the wall that's next to it, and now it's just on the front. >> Um, and then this is the awning here. You can see here and here. It changed because now it jets out um further over the cars than it did before.
>> Wait, can you show that again? >> See how long this awning is here? >> Oh. versus how short it is here. >> This is the front. No, this is the front. >> This is the right side. So, you're looking at it. >> I'm totally confused. I thought I was with you, but then I lost the
>> I'll go back. I'll go back. This is the front, but you're not going to see the awning because it protrudes at you. >> Okay. Okay. So, if you look at it from the right side, which is the mechanic. >> So, that of this side is the right side. This is the if you're facing the building, the right side of the building
from one from um Princeton Street. >> Okay. >> So, wait. So, you're doing it like this. >> This is the side the mechanic's on. >> So, you're looking at this. >> This is the side the mechanic's on. The other side, the left side. >> So, the awning is facing Princeton Street.
>> Correct. >> Oh, okay. I'm there with you. >> Okay. Sorry. >> I'm there. It's like if you're looking at the building, the right side. So what these are showing is the protrusion towards Princeton Street. So this is this was there was a smaller awning in
the in the previous proposal, a larger awning only. It goes out further, but it's also longer across the front of the building than it was previously because previously it was just over the door and now it extends all the way across. >> In the plans it looks like it's covering
about half of the parking space. Well, because we wanted to make sure it covered the ADA spaces and also some customers. So, it does go long now. And that's the purpose for >> Well, it goes long down the building, but it also comes out >> comes out
>> significant, >> but it's over impervious surface that was there already. So, we're not >> really playing with the impervious surface. So, you can see >> um >> the dotted line right there. >> Yeah. Yeah. So it comes way out basically to protect the people coming
into the building. And if we kept it to just the ADA spaces, it wouldn't also then accomplish necessarily the retail portion. So we tried to do a little bit more, but we wanted to make sure that the landscaping overall on this corner didn't get affected. So we really kind
of pulled worked with the developer to really say the the store owner to say you really can't have it across the whole front because we need to be able to grow some stuff. We need the sidewalk. We have this door. So, could we limit it to this? Um, so that we have
that ability to have So, now we have these >> there's the four spaces here and then two ADA spaces that are covered for that reason. >> And so, all those trees go away. Excuse me. We basically moved them right
to another part of the site plan. So, these here, there's a little section of shrubs. We basically kept the same amount on the plan so that we're not even though this little area is not going to be grow, we can't grow there because it's going to be shaded now, >> but we've basically just moved those
plants elsewhere on the site. So, we're not changing the overall plant count on the site. >> Okay. >> Is there still grass? I mean, that's green on the left. That's not >> What did we decide to do under there? It's just stone, right? Yeah. because we talked to the landscape architect and
because it's fully shaded, >> there's not too much we can do, but we didn't and it's under an imperous barrier. So, and we wanted it to be neat, but we didn't want it to just be concrete up to the building. >> So, we didn't do that. So, it's just stone right now in this area here. And
then we've this sidewalk comes into this door now here. And then we've taken these plants and just replanted them elsewhere to make sure we maintain plant count. So before though you had an area that grass and then you're taking away the grass that now has a cover over it and
it's going to be gravel. >> It was not grass, >> right? What was it like? >> Oh no, it was going to be like bark mulch and shrubs. >> But yeah, because we have that cover right now, we can't grow anything under it, which is another reason why we we're like we can't really do it across the
whole frontage because we want to keep some of the vegetation here. I mean, we do have a nice landscape island in front of the project still too between where >> currently right now it's paved basically. It's just a sea of pavement across to Princon Street. Now that there's a landscape island between this
isn't I guess the only landscaping on the project. Ab can bring up the site plan. Um, oh, you can go to landscape plan, too, if you want. >> You can keep scrolling to the landscape plan if you want to.
>> One more right here. So, there's there's this area of grass and plants here, too. Um, and a shade tree here. And so, what are you doing to me? So currently where it's paved, it's it was paved
previously just paved straight across. There's we've now instituted a landscape island here for in between Princeton Street and the building also. So there's um grass and plantings here and then there's plantings in front of the building here and then again on the
sides here too where currently nothing really exists there now. >> Katie, is the main door underneath the awning? >> Yes, it's here. And then what's the side door where the walk? >> This is like a maintenance mechanical door. >> Okay.
>> Where's the deck? >> It's on top >> of the whole thing. >> Yeah. >> The wood's on top. >> It's on the third. It's basically on the third floor. >> Picture. >> So because I went to Google and I've got a picture of a half constructed thing. >> Yep. They have constructed it and then
we got called and said, "Uh, what do we do?" >> So what do you mean like you're Hold on. like to I've got two floors here. >> It's in the back. You can't see it. >> You can't see it. Yep. It's up and over. You can't see it. >> I can't You can't see it from the street. >> No. >> No.
>> It's back. It's way in the back. So, it's back here. So, you can't because you're looking through the You can't your your view doesn't go there. >> So, it's up here. It's looking over the wetland at the back in the flood plan area. >> Okay. >> So, it's not looking over Princeton
Street. That's not the nicest view here. So, it's way back here. So, there's a elevator shaft that sticks up. The elevator shaft is exempt from the height requirements. So, the elevator shaft doesn't count. And then there's basically a little room with a little a
little um outdoor area that's covered that looks out over um the wetlands and the river and everything that's in the back of the building. So, yeah, you can't your eye doesn't really go there unless you come around to the side or the back of the building.
But we went out and made sure that the architect had to we made we needed to make sure that it met zoning. So we've been working with the architect and the builder >> to make sure everything fit um within the height regulations. So that's what you're seeing here.
>> Any other >> There used to be a whole another floor here that's gone. >> Oh, in the back. >> Yeah, in the back that was like partially exposed. That was partially exposed. That's been taken out of the plan alto together. >> And so they're just going to have less
warehouse. >> Yep. >> That's good by me. >> Any other questions before we get to the letters? >> Now that I've given Joel a heads up that he's reading letters. Joel.
>> Okay. The first one's from the board of health. Dear planning board, this letter is regarding the proposed major modification application submitted by Clan LLC to permit a new rooftop floor to be used as an event space. If the space includes a kitchen or catering
services, it must comply with 105 CMR 590, the Massachusetts State Sanitary Code for Food Establishments, and the Town of Chelmsford provisions, Chapter 2011, Article 9, Food Service and Retail Food Establishment Board of Health Regulations. The applicant would be required to submit a food establishment
plan review with stamped architectural plans, obtain a food establishment permit upon approval, and assure ensure any catering services operating in the space are also permitted by the health department. Respectfully, Donna Greenwood, public health director, Chumsford Board of Health
from fire. Um, dear members of the board, the fire prevention office has reviewed the major modification application for 133 Princeton Street, which proposes to utilize a portion of the space as an event area. Our office provides the following comments. Occupancy and egress. Any event space
must comply with the Massachusetts state building code and NFPA life safety code requirements, including maximum occupant load calculations, clearly marked and unobstructed exits, and accessible egress routes. Storage and separation. Alcohol storage and retail areas must
remain properly separated from the event space to minimize fire hazards and ensure safe circulation. Inspections and permits. Prior to the issuance of the all alcohol license, the fire prevention office requests the opportunity to inspect the premises to confirm compliance with applicable fire
and life safety codes. By annual alcohol license inspections will also be required. The fire prevention office reserves the right to require additional fire safety measures if conditions warrant based on final plans or observed deficiencies. Compliance with all local
and state fire regulations will be mandatory before occupancy of the event space is approved. We request that this letter be made part of your approval process and included in the public record. Sincerely, Josh Abbott, Captain Chelmsford Fire Prevention Office
and the building commissioner, zoning enforcement officer, Mr. Nuan. Should the proposed rooftop space for events is approved by the planning board, be advised that the building and rooftop event area needs to comply with all building and safety code to include a sprinkler system as mandated by code as
adopted by the state of Massachusetts. Thank you respectfully, Jose Negron, building commissioner and also I think I have to go back where the original letters are.
Here we go. So, uh, no concerns from the Chumsford Police Department. No concerns from the North Chumpsford Water District and no concerns from the collector, uh, at least as in his position as the collector tax collector.
>> Thank you. Any other questions, comments from the board? >> Yeah, I'd make one. There are actually a lot of changes in this. And I don't particularly mind the additional event space, nor do I
particularly care if the basement disappeared. But I do notice that the front of us lost a lot of windows and now looks a heck of a lot less like a uh a retail space and a heck of a lot more
like a storage barn. Um, now to what extent that should affect what we do here, I don't know, but I thought I'd make the comment. >> See what I mean? >> Yeah. The look of it almost reminds me of the fire station that's up the road. >> Yeah, it does kind of.
>> It does. >> I mean, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's not my style, but but it is noteworthy. Why were there so many windows taken out? >> Because of the interior space layout just it got as it got developed further.
I think Evan you can go to the floor plan you can see like these little areas here like this is the register here and the office. Um, and it didn't make sense. And plus, there's the awning over there, too. So, the windows
didn't really make sense anymore. Um, being looking in on the registered area and then also being under the awning. Um, so because even though the window's gone, now the awning's up over it, so it'll shade that area of the front of the building. It won't be as visible
because of the awning protruding from the front. Um but that's why it was an architectural change due to sort of how the interior when we come before you for site plan approval. The interiors are somewhat conceptual because we haven't
figured out all the MEPs yet. So mechanical, electrical, plumbing, sort of all the different use patterns and so that just was developed further. Um and so yeah, so that it changed from Yeah. So that it changed from this.
So these windows, see how far down they are? Those would look right out on the people standing there at the registers inside the building. So it just doesn't work. Um, and you want the registers obviously to be at the front of the store where people are coming into park. So it was
just just moving through the motions of that. >> You mean their backs would be facing the window, not like a supermarket where their windows are there, >> right? No, cuz the the registers, if you looked, were facing into the store.
>> What are the small windows to the left? What are those? Like the >> these here. Do you have Casey? Do you have the >> the office in the utility room? >> Office and the utility rooms. Okay. So that's here and here.
>> Oh, to the right. >> Yeah, the right. These two >> to the >> This area here is the cooler area. >> So that must just be that's probably just airflow. That's the cooler area. >> So these are just this is the this is all cooler. These are all cooler is
facing in. So that's all product and cooled area back there. This I mean this is going to be yeah this is this is all product in coolers the whole way around the exterior of the store. This is registers here. Um
right. So and then product through the aisles. >> Any other comments? Just so Michael's has windows in the front. The cash registers are up front. >> Whatever. >> What's that? >> What do I know?
>> Michaelels in Chelford Mall has windows in the front and the cash registers are up front. So >> yeah, >> I say Lincoln Liquors is the same thing. They got the windows in the front and the cash registers there, too. So >> yeah, >> even Staples >> and Whole Foods and
>> I'm thinking also it might have to do with all the cars facing in. They probably they probably don't want the lights there, do they? All the cars are facing right towards it. >> But there are other plenty of other places that like she said, Lincoln Liquors has that exact same situation. >> And the cars pack right in right at the
windows. >> Yeah, >> Market Basket. And >> it looks to me like somebody was saving money on the windows. It's okay. >> That's what it looked like. >> Is there possibility that it could be changed at this point?
Well, no, it's constructed. No, it can't. >> So, we have constructed. >> Yeah, we were brought in after that. We were brought in after that happened. >> Well, so I think >> No, I'm looking at you towards towards
architectural and how it fits within the approval of the planning board. >> I'm just asking for >> I mean, anything's possible, right? I mean, it's not impossible to change it, but Um, it wouldn't be functional. It'd be more of a like a like a false window.
>> I mean, it's just weird to have a plan and then get it approved and then do a not plan >> and then come to asking >> and then ask us to approve it. Like what? >> That's why they're here. um how and why
changes were made from planning board approvals to building permit plans. >> We could ask them to change the material instead of putting windows in in that area. Um but there I mean this is a this is a liquor store operator that's
operated other liquor stores and this is to have a developer come in here and explain to me why they built something that wasn't a wasn't a plan. Like I I >> I mean the builder is online right now, but we could we could certainly do that. >> And why they would do that?
>> I'm a little confused. Someone >> special permits we're asking for tonight are essentially asking you to approve something that's more compliant to zoning. >> I'm I'm fine with that, but I just Google this and there's a building there >> with the new plan.
>> Yeah, there is. Mhm. And I'm sorry that they received the building permit for. >> Let me tell you right now, like that just pisses me off to no end. >> Understood. >> Like I'm like beyond >> pissed right now. >> We were not too happy when we were called either. So
>> I like to hear the explanation of why they did that because what's the point of us even spending our time here as a planning board approving these plans when these things can get built and then you come back and ask us to just rubber stamp it because right now I want my windows back. Yeah, I want my windows
back. >> I just want to be clear. We're not trying to shoot the messenger either. >> No, I mean I had nothing to I We are here purposely to put together the plan to show you what's changed and to tell you how it fits within the rules and regulations and the bylaws that we have
before us and ask for your approval. And that is up to you and we can relay that information to both the owner and and the builder and have them committed to have that discussion. Um, >> yeah. >> Yeah. I like to have that dis I like them to be here in person, have this
discussion. I I just need to understand how this happens >> because like why am I wasting my time? Why are any of us wasting our time here? >> That's agreed. I mean, they also removed a basement. They added a roof portion. All that wasn't there before. >> Well, at least they gave some they gave
some reasonable explanations for the basement. >> But come in before you start building and get improved. >> You should hope. Right. >> I actually have another question related to the event space. Is the addition of that space and that
use aligned with the current um alcohol license from the board of the select board. >> Do you know that answer? >> I >> we don't know that answer. >> It will need to be modified.
>> Okay. So that's another and they they chose to come here first that that may make sense. Um but the select board uh license will need to be modified.
>> So I would like to see the select board license modified before we approve this >> because the select board license was approved for the building before they started the building. So, I would think that we should follow the same logic for
the change to the license. >> I'm in agreement there because I don't want to approve something. The select court says, "No, no, no. It's you need the approval for that before we can even sit there and say yes, you can add this and build this." >> All right. So, what I am hearing is that
I think we would like to continue this. I do want to hear public comment first though. Um, but I think we're likely going to continue this um with the request that the builder and the developer or the owner and the developer
come before us to talk through why those changes were made before coming to us. Um, >> and then also we would like the uh select board license approval
or amended before we approve this as well. >> Now, if I'm a homeowner and I build an addition that I'm not allowed to build, don't get approval on it, can the town make me take it down? >> Yep. Yep. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that this is what we're talking about. Like I'm
I'm like as a home owner, I know those rules. I'm like and I'm really I was really excited about this with the rooftop. I thought it was a great add like but this this to me is
>> I think I've said enough. Thank you, >> Mr. Chairman. if I could um before you continue um I just want to discuss a little bit more this uh request that we get a um modification to the license um please understand that in order to get
the original license we had to show that we had an approved building so we're now in kind of a chicken and an egg because if I go back or whoever did the licensing for the liqu alcohol goes back to the board to ask for a modification they're going to expect us to show them
an approved building. Um, so again, I I I feel kind of in a chicken and an egg is that >> um, you know, you guys would like to see the license approved first or modified first. The
selectman are going to ask us to show them an approved modified building. So, >> I mean, it's a new use and liquor licenses in Massachusetts are quite controlled and so to throw a new use into your liquor license seems like
quite a jump to me. >> Um, >> and something like it happens all the time. >> Um, but typically when we do that, >> you do it first. >> We're an approved No, we have a building that exists that's approved. It's not
constructed. >> It's not constructed. You know, it's there, >> right? >> So, when we go in to ask for a change, we can identify where in the building, how in the building, and how how it goes. >> So, so hold on. Let me just I thought because I thought you said it was the other way, so I'm a little confused.
What's the process now for the liquor license? You go first. First, you get this. >> No, we got the building special permits first. then we can show the selectman where how and you know how the liquor is going to
be sold and served. >> So >> this was this was discussed internally. I had suggested that >> um it may make sense to go to the sled board first on this particular one. Um obviously the applicant chose this path
and internally I think the preference was uh from the selectman's office that they go to the planning board first. So the planning board isn't reviewing what takes place in that event space. That's what the select board would do.
Put parameters on that. uh the planning board is reviewing obviously the changes within the context of the original approval and then compliance with with the applicable zoning. But I think in this case because it's
a specific space that completely depends on the license being granted. I wouldn't want to approve that space without knowing that the license is going to be granted. I think the con the consensus
here is that most people are excited about the the event space. So, it's likely to get approved, but I think I'm given what we've just witnessed with everything else, I am
very reluctant to approve it without the license in place first in this case. Is there any is there any harm to potentially conditioning approval of the
modification on our obtaining approval for the space by the selectman so that okay we got approval to do it but unless we get the selectman to change the liquor store we're not allowed to do it. Well, isn't
it already? >> I mean, the liquor license, >> that's the problem. >> I mean, yeah. I mean, >> well, right. But as as was mentioned, >> the bottom line here, guys, and I do appreciate this,
if you don't approve it, then it's going to have to come down. So same that if the selectman don't approve the mod uh the you know don't approve the liquor change and therefore we don't get approval of the
modification. Um I suspect the the path will be to remove it. I mean what choice would we have? We wouldn't have a special permit to allow it. building inspector will issue us a cease
and desist as he's done already um with a requirement to remove. So I you know I I I hope it's obvious that you know as the the the messengers here um we we too were incredibly disappointed to get that
call. I never like to get that call because I know I'm going to stand here and do this beat up by the planning board and and so you know by all means I mean if you want to hear from the the thing I can respect that and you know we'll make that happen but um you know
at the end of the day the only thing we did were encouraged by is that these changes you know in some way small ways I think make the building a little better in terms of being able to cover the handy kept spots and delivery folks
and also you know we were able to do this and meet the the height we've reduced I mean getting rid of the bottom floor I think that was you know I was fine with that change I wish they would have told us first so we could come and told you the great news
>> uh about what we were doing but um you know we will we can bring our clients in and and you can understand why um I think they're going to tell you you know, architect talks to the builder, the builder talks to the architect, they talk to the owner, they all are, hey,
yeah, that's a great change. That's a good idea. Let's do this. I mean, I don't see it often. I hate to see it, but that's going to be the bottom line. I think the board is going to have to consider whether the, you know, from a purely zoning perspective, whether the
changes to the building are beneficial or detrimental to the neighborhood and to the town of Chumsford and the view. Uh, Mike, I can understand your thought about all the removal of the windows, but personally, I kind of liked it. I
thought it broke it up a little. you know, it was just two floors of >> two rows of windows and it to me it looked >> very wear out. >> I put by there on a tractor at 12 and a half miles an hour, so I get a good long. >> So I again I you know it's obviously
your decision and your opinions, but um I I personally just think in some ways you know adding that little piece on the top and the signage I think it kind of breaks it up and makes it a more interesting building. um but your call
and we appreciate your time. >> We can bring uh we will continue and bring to you um whoever needs to be here. Um and again we will do whatever you demand in terms of the the selectman
and the change to the to the liquor license but I would just hopefully like to understand that the selectman will be willing to consider the change before we have an approved building. So >> right >> however that process has to happen we
will do it. >> All right. But help me to understand what you know maybe Evan has a better idea if the selectman would No, the selectman actually said come here first and get the >> that was >> the modification change. Yes. >> But again, Mr. Chairman, whatever the
board requires of us um to the best of our ability, we'll make sure it happens. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, >> yeah. My thought is that the worst that happens if the uh liquor license isn't extended is so they wind up with a
closet on the third floor. That I'm not that they can't really use for anything useful. I'm not that doesn't worry me too much, but I sure would like to have a better understanding of how this all came to be. >> Did the elevator before go into the basement?
>> Probably did. And then no basement elevator up to the roof. >> Yeah. >> Well, the the elevator can go up on the roof anyway. That's >> No, I know, but it wasn't in the previous plan, right? >> Okay. That I didn't notice. I I didn't notice where they're headed, >> right? I mean, was the elevator up to the roof before?
>> Yeah. I think it it always had an elevator. >> All the way all the way to the roof. >> Always to the roof. >> Yeah. >> The the mechanics, whatever they call mechanics. >> Yeah. The mechanical piece of the ele. >> So, that's a change. That's a major change.
>> All right. Um, so at this point, we'll open it up for public comment. Uh, seeing yes, come to this phone, please. >> Good evening. Sorry, I'll make this quick. Um, has everybody driven by this building? >> Can you state your name and address?
>> I'm Kenneth Stair. Thank you. >> I own the building right next door, and I'm glad to see a new building going up. It looks beautiful. the questions arising like the elevator the elevator was built originally when that first started I say what is that on the third
floor why do elevators come up above the building I didn't realize that so that means to me that looked like that was built that way it intentions to go to a third floor which now they're trying to go to secondly I said it's not open to the public you've stated it's not open to the public so how are we going to
benefit from the third floor um snow removal seems pretty tough I'm right next door 20 feet from it. I've been there for 40 years. I know how close it is. So, it is pretty tight. Again, I love it. I've been next to a vacant building all these years and never said anything. You guys from town, you know,
nobody's been in it. There's people have lived in it. I've seen it all. Animals were living in it. So, it is nice to see that. But again, you said it. I agree with the need. Why is it all of a sudden all these changes? You know, again, it's a beautiful building. There's no question about it. $6 million building
or something. But all of a sudden you come before you guys like, "Oh, we didn't mean this." And the the basement like there's some harm done by the basement. It's in the flood plane. Everybody in no town knows that's in the flood plane. From Charlie Lton's building to Princeton station all the way till you get to R&P. What starts to
go up by main bridges is in the flood plane. I can't do anything in there. R&P can't build in the back. And now he's been injured because he can't put a basement in it. We could call it a swimming pool, right? It's in the flood plane. So there was no harm. He knew when he bought that property that's in the flood plane.
So that's all I wanted to say. And you can see that by the way when you drive by. How can you not see the third story when you drive by? As you're coming on an angle, say from Mahoney's now to Princeton station. You can see the elevator shaft which is going to turn
into something else. So I feel bad for the people. I don't live there. I own an industrial shop. But the neighborhoods across the street, they might take objection. I don't know. But those are just my comments. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Any other comments from the public on Zoom? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Would you take a motion to continue? >> I will take a motion to continue. Um >> when's a good date? When when can you guys >> next meeting?
>> Second. >> Motion by Mike, second by Deedra. All in favor? All right. I >> just to clarify before we do that, are we asking are they going are we ask are they going to we asking them to go in front of the select board to get the license or no? Did they ever answer that question?
>> I think we need to figure out the timing of it first and I will I'll reach out to the select board to figure that out. >> Okay. Because if the select board's preference is to have it approved, then I'm okay with that. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah, me too. >> Yeah. I think we can we can do a special condition.
>> Okay. I just want to make sure we ever answer that question. >> I'd be more comfortable with the select board ruling first, but I think if we had to, we could probably do a special condition. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh, all in favor just for clarify. I
>> All right. Unanimous continued. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> All right. So Chumsford Malls continued, Steman's continued. So next item on the agenda, 242 Bill Ricka Road. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of
the board. Douglas Duchaine from Finner and Nicholson, and I'm not done. I'll be back later. Um representing the applicant. Um um in the same vein, I'm here tonight to uh discuss some modifications to our plan. But on the other hand, they're modifications you asked us to make, and
I'm happy to report we can make them. Um, and uh, I do appreciate your time. Uh, so, as you recall, uh, my clients are proposing to build a dehabilitation center here. >> Uh, and we've been through the use and whatnot, and I I think the board was um,
at least respectful of the the facility and what it can do. Um, there were two big issues that we discussed uh, at the last meeting. one being trees uh and the other uh being parking uh which I know is are two of the more
important aspects of the board's review. Um and so I'm going to go over those for you and tell you what we've been able to achieve. Uh but I do want to just give you an update um with respect to our filings with the water district and the board of health with respect to soils
and that that PAS uh question that's been asked. Um we have filed uh with both the water district and with the board of health. Um we have a letter from the water district saying that they are comfortable with the project as as
proposed. Uh my clients met with the board of health last night actually. Uh presented the plan to the board. uh and they have taken it under advisement and they are going to report back to us what if any additional testing they would
like us to do. So we that process is uh underway and uh you know so I just want to let you know that we have been addressing that. That was also a question you recall that was raised by the conservation commission early on. So we've also reported back to them and in
fact uh great segue. Um we have been to the conservation a couple times now and uh have presented our tree plan to them. They're very happy with the tree plan and are in fact drafting an order of conditions for us for their next meeting. So, let me talk a little bit
about trees. Uh thank you, Evan. Uh you will recall uh that we were proposing to remove 58 trees from this site. Uh significant as it may be. Um and we discussed with both conservation
and this board about restoring trees, you know, achieving trying to achieve a onetoone return and also to locate those trees in ways that would help block Anita, as you'll remember, you know, sort of the viewshed through the sides of the
building. And ironically, it it worked out really well in that regard. So, if I could just approach here. Um, so we were proposing a total of 58 trees to be removed. I'll jump to the end.
We're replacing 60. So, we've been able to achieve more than one to one. >> Oh, excellent. >> There were 37 trees to be removed within the 100 ft buffer zone. We have replaced every single one of
them to the delight of the conservation commission. We did that by uh as you recall we had proposed to remove the pavement that was originally shown in the wreck area and replace it with um you know some
pvious surfaces that are capable of supporting wheelchairs. But it also gave us an opportunity to put some really nice shade trees around there that will not only help shade that but will provide a canopy of shade to the wetland area here. Um, we had originally
proposed to restore put a lot of those trees right in here on the slope down to the wetland, but it turns out it is actually pretty well vegetated in there. And uh the landscape architect was concerned that if we put too many more
trees in there, they may not, you know, live long enough uh especially with the existing vegetations that there. So what we did is we had an area in the back here that was actually void of a lot of vegetation and it was adjacent to the
wetland. So you know some things work out for the better. We have proposed to replace um you know the majority of those 37 trees from the buffer zone. Um well I wouldn't say the majority because we still probably have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13. So there is 15 here which means there's uh you know 15 22 trees back here and the good news is that will provide a direct buffer to all viewsheds you know. >> Perfect.
>> Y >> and the architect uh landscape architect feels that um that's a great place for them. So, I I think I think um the team was able to do a good job and uh I certainly hope trees are on sale this
fall, but I I you know, I do appreciate it and the and the conservation commission also was very forceful about making sure the trees were replaced. So, we were able to I believe meet that requirement. You'll recall the other issue we had was with
parking. Um and although we uh my client feels based on you know operation of dozens of other facil facilities including local facilities that you know we would have uh we would have been fine with the parking that we had. However,
the board has pointed out that it was tough, it was tight, it was you know so we were asked to see if we could get more um spots on the site. You know we really couldn't. I mean, we could mess with the the landscape out here,
you know, and try and stick one and, you know, thought, could we jam one in here? >> It it it it it would have done more harm than than help. So, as was suggested to us, we have reached out to our neighbors. You'll recall the Sunnyacre
facility is right next door and my clients have been able to uh talk with them and they are in the process of drafting um a memo of understanding whereby they will provide us up to 15
parking spaces. >> Uh you know we had tried to hope could we get five >> while we were at it you always ask for more right? So, um I actually I do not have the signed memorandum. It is being negotiated now, but I did want to give
the board a copy of the last memorandum that was sent from till to um the folks at Sunny Acres. U Mr. Frank Maguire is the manager director over there. So, as you can see um in this letter, they have outlined the terms and conditions for
the parking. We are going to rent. you're not going to pay. >> Yeah. >> You know, I believe it's a hundred or $150 per space per month. So, it's not a cheap endeavor. Um, they are going to hold us 15 spaces. Uh, however, I think my client would
like to pay and sign for five and see how the operation goes. And if you know if those spaces are used, it's a quick check and we can bump it to 10 or 15 as
we need. So, um, Evan, did did they send over a plan with the little path? >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> I was looking at it. >> You predicted. >> Yeah. So, there you go. So, it um you know, we've proposed some wooden steps
uh that will be uh into the ground uh ground cover the gravel and uh takes you right to the parking lot. So, it'll be a quick walk from the front entrance to the additional parking spaces. So, um you know, we're very happy that uh our
neighbors have been, you know, so generous in working with us, but you know, kind of all in the health >> business. So they were very understanding. Um so with that um I believe those were
your two big uh issues. Um and again I apologize that I don't have the signed but as you know you know once people agree to something then they involve lawyers and then the lawyers take forever.
Uh but it it is it is hot on the presses. So it will be so certainly if the board would like to make a condition of of of of you know are providing you that signed lease uh that's certainly more than reasonable. Um and I guess
with that I'm I'm happy to answer any other questions you have or you know address anything else you'd like to talk about. >> Okay. Evan, do you have anything else to add? Um, no, but not at this time. >> Questions, comments from the board.
>> Well, one of the things we had asked before was looking at the routing of the traffic going the other direction to accommodate any backup by the door. Um, I'm not seeing that right now. >> I'm not sure. I know we talked about that and this was in this area here.
>> Well, we talked about turning because you're going one way that way. We talked about going the other direction so that the backup could happen around the building during pickup times >> street versus like if you have a couple cars >> back up this way, right? >> Yeah. Versus out on the road.
>> Oh yeah. Um we actually have um >> you're on mute if you're trying to talk. >> On the line, our engineer, maybe he can address that. >> Um >> Gio, do you hear the question? >> Yep. >> Yes. >> All right. Giovani Federa. I'm the project engineer. Um, we did take a look
into going in the opposite direction. And we had to also try the uh the emergency vehicle as well. The emergency vehicle was what was stopping us from making that turn. Um, as as the way that it's
going right now, um, as you get to the back of the building, it's making that turn to the left. it kind of has like that more open space that makes the turn around the building going on 180 degrees. But if we're going in the opposite direction, we kind of have that
um retaining wall that's kind of pinching in closer to the building and that's where the that's where we were hitting and the emergency vehicle wasn't capable of making that turn. >> Can you go to slide C7 to show that? And if we had backup going around the
building, which we don't anticipate, by the way, because we've actually provided a a a longer drop off spot than in any of our other facilities, but if the traffic were to back up that other way, then there's no way for an emergency
vehicle or anyone to get around the site unless they just wanted to sit in that in that queue. Um, another question I have about the stairs that are going from the upper portion to the lower. Is there no railing there?
>> Giovani, I I'm sure there's >> the intent is that it'll be kind of like an embedded into the ground type of um steps. It's it's not going to be um a steep slope. I would say those treads are probably about a foot and a half
each. So, it's a gradual uh you know, more of like a natural gravel with wooden, you know, uh steps embedded into the ground without railings. >> So, so just so you're clear, Javani, make sure I'm being clear, you won't be
able to fall off the side of the stair. >> It >> It will be level with the slope. >> Exactly. >> Your step will be in here. So that you can't fall off the end of the step because this the dirt is there. >> But if the board I mean we can put a
railing if the board wants a railing. That's there's no question there. >> Just more thinking if weather goes crappy, you know, it's raining, it's snowing, things get slippery. >> We're happy to do that. >> Yeah. >> Also for my recommendation, we did that
permeable so we blend with also any opposition we could get from environmental It kind of blends into the environment. >> Is that shown anywhere in the plan that you could point out? I might have missed. >> No, I don't believe we've shown a of a
You mean a a side shot of them? Uh, no. But >> yeah. No, she's asking if we have a sort of a three-dimensional view that shows that, but >> we we we could provide it. >> We provide a detailed. Yeah,
>> that certainly could make a condition that you approve the >> standard detail and we'll put a railing. >> Another little question. So, it looks like the snow storage goes right next to those stairs. >> Mhm. We're going to shovel those stairs
and make sure they're not blocked. >> You keep on going. >> No, that was my like I noticed the snow storage on those stairs, too. That was a concern of mine. So, >> well, we probably integrated the stairs without removing the little snow storage thing, but you know, obviously the snow
will be packed on there. Somebody will shovel a a pathway. >> The the steps should be clear of any snow storage. The snow storage will be on the sides of it. >> Yep. Thank you. >> Any other questions?
I like the ch especially coming from a a teacher standpoint in schools and there's never parking for anybody that needs to come in. Uh being able to have those additional five spots and I I like the idea of hey we'll start with five. If we need more we can work with them there. So we're willing to give you 15. Um so I like having that that was you
know something that really sort of I think benefits you guys because at any time you can have oh we need to bring one more person now we have no park and >> working in that environment. I know what it's like you know. So, um I think that was a really good uh
agreement you made with uh Sunny Acres to try to work together with that. How would people know that there's parking up there? >> I would I'm actually thinking of a possible condition for this. Um, so one
of the things I was thinking is if we could um as part of those special conditions request that employees park over there to free up some spaces in the main lot so that guests don't have to guess that there's additional parking
elsewhere >> and then then we could signage those as guest parking only. >> Yes. Or the other thing I was thinking of is if so when I looked at the Google maps for the van pickup, there were more than I
think the eight that you have space for. So if instead of queuing up into the road, if vans can use those extra spaces for waiting for their their pickups, um so you could have those open spaces for the van overflow and guest
um spaces as well. >> Do you think the five spaces they're talking about is enough? >> Yeah, I think >> Yeah. >> Yeah, because if you I think I counted the most was 12 vans in the Google pictures. Um, so if they have the eight
in the the pickup line, they would have a couple and and technically they would qualify as employees, agents of the facility so that we could make sure that we don't have guests and random visitors
parking there so we can label each one of them. Yeah. >> Yep. That's >> okay. >> That way you wouldn't have to have all the guest signage about where to go >> if they do park over there. >> And it's more incentive for them to make
sure it's plowed at all times because Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions or comments? Um I wanted to first start off by saying thank you um for all of those changes.
Um, I really appreciate all of the work that the the applicant has put into making those changes um for both the the conservation commission and for us. So, I really appreciate that. Um,
I think at some point we should talk our usual um about possible conditions for the the approval. Um, I've got a few suggestions, pretty typical of the ones I usually have. Um, the first is that
the onm include landscape maintenance um as well as the uh snow storage plan. Um, which should include where not to put it and where to put it. >> Yes. >> So, if the onm can um include that as well
>> and the removal if needed. >> Yeah. Um, and then I think the conditions of theou the 15 or five at least five of those
parking spaces incremental up to 15 if needed and then employees using those spaces to allow for uh extra space on site for visitors and van pickups.
Are there any other conditions that we would want? >> We'll just go draft draft a decision. >> Do we want to have anything about the maintenance of the walk since it's not on their property
>> the walk that's on >> part of theou? Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Is that in theoument? It can be. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If you could make sure that's in there. >> It says they'll it'll be maintained at
their expense >> maintained bullet. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> All right. So, at this point, I will open it up for public comment. >> Anything on Zoom?
>> No. There being none, um I think we can do we want to keep it open for one more meeting with the draft or are we comfortable closing? >> I would think we could close it. Um
ask for a draft decision. >> Uh probably approve based on what we've said and go. >> I agree. >> People comfortable with that? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh, so at this point I'll take a motion.
>> I move that we close the public hearing. >> I'll second. >> Motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. >> Um, unanimous. Uh, Joel, have you Mullen? Okay, good. >> Okay. >> Um, so Joel has Mulland. I will take
another motion >> and I will move that we uh approve all the various permits associated here and then ask uh Evan to put together a draft decision that includes inter aliia all
of the uh sorry all of the uh stuff that you've mentioned. >> All right. Uh motion by Mike >> I'll second >> second by Dearra. All in favor >> I >> unanimous. Thank you. So, we'll see you in a couple of weeks. Or when is when do
you have the availability? >> The 24th. >> All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> So, on um the next agenda item, unfortunately, uh Jeff Durk, the peerreview consultant, had a mixup, so he is not with us this
evening. >> He he indicated he can make it for the 24th. Okay. Um, >> wish we'd known because I think we have people sitting in the back. >> Mhm. >> Well, we could still discuss and
>> Yeah, the other stuff. >> I mean, it would be minus the peer review. >> Um, All right, pull that up. >> Guess who? >> Welcome back. >> You're again for this one. Thank you. How many do you have?
>> Didn't know we were back. >> Being efficient. >> Yeah. I can I can be very brief. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, good evening. Uh Douglas Duchaine from Finner and Nicholson uh representing the applicant this evening. Um we are going to focus
the meeting tonight with your approval on um traffic discussion of traffic. As you know, we had submitted a uh traffic report. Uh that report has been reviewed by uh your peer reviewer. And then
>> before you go on, I don't know if you heard because you were out of the room, but our peer reviewer is not attending tonight. There was a mixup in >> that. Okay, we're going to move forward. >> Yes. >> Well, at least we can present the traffic report to you and tell you what
Mr. Dirk told us to do. >> Yes. >> Um and we can have some more question and answer discussion. It's just we will have to continue this to next meeting for that discussion with the peer reviewer. >> Okay. And uh >> and if we do that, can we put this first
>> like on the agenda so folks who have to sit through all of this? Yep. >> But I do agree. I think we we will be quicker, but I do think we can still accomplish some things tonight. In addition to discussing traffic, we did want to present some architectural
changes we proposed are proposing to the building to uh you know further our our project. Uh so with that um Casey Okay, I'm going to do a Casey Ferrar with Howard Town. Hudson, just a brief overview. So, we last saw you on July
23rd. Um I believe at that time we had a pretty productive discussion for a number of things. Um I did provide a cover letter to you guys um that stated uh we have not yet revised civils and the the reason for that is because we wanted to await for this traffic to just understand if there was other
overarching changes that needed to be made um that would have affected the civil plans uh as a whole. Um since that time I will note that we have received the peer review from DPW back for on the storm water front. Um they did agree with our calculations and um noted that
we did meet the standards of all storm water. Um I do believe that there were several um ideas and um intentions that we wanted to pursue or that we were requested to pursue. Um and you we still have every intention on doing that. Some
of that is uh EV chargers, changing those gravel pads to impervious surfaces, whether that's through a liner or through pavement in some respect to to protect further the aquifer that's below from those what we intend to have on those gravel pads. Um I know there was an a butter um maybe not in a
butter, but a representative of a committee that would like us to investigate whether or not there was the ability to connect a bike easement from the rear to the front. you know, these are all things that we still intend to pursue and intend to uh figure out if it can work, if it's feasible for the site. Um, and then additionally, as part of
the uh peer review that we received from the traffic study, there were also some site improvement recommendations that we uh include to or we intend to investigate uh to see if we can indeed incorporate those and you know the feasibility of doing so. Um, so with that, I will turn it over to Carrie Pike
uh who is the traffic engineer. Actually, I just have one question for you. Uh, Casey, did in the DPW's review of the storm water. >> Did the plans that they review have a liner underneath the gravel in the back yet or not? Cuz it sounded like
>> So, not on the rear. So, what was what was um on the rear was just the 90 the curve number of 96 which represented essentially a pvious but nearly impervious surface. The section that was under the excavators we did include as imperous at that time. So the change of
storm in storm water that's going to come from the revised plans will just be that the rear will be considered a curve number of 98 as well. So 96 to 98 on on that rear section. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> All right. Good evening everyone. Carrie
Pike with Howard Stein Hudson. I'm here to talk to you about traffic. So without further ado, um as mentioned, we did get the peer review from your peerreview consultant and I understand he's not here tonight, but I am going to hit some high points as I go through here because
there were a number of items he asked for more information and we have not completed those items yet. So uh we will have more to show you at the next meeting or whenever you choose to continue us. Um so the process generally is that we document and analyze existing conditions. So that means we collect
traffic counts, we collect crash data, we do some operational analysis of our study area intersections and then we repeat that process for future conditions for a no build condition which is future but without the project and then a build condition which is future with the no build whatever those
conditions might be which includes other projects in the area background traffic growth and then adding our project on top. Um so we've estimated the trips. Um here's our study area. So you can see 495 kind of going across the middle of
the um kind of top right to left and then you've got Route 3. So our site's kind of tucked up right next to one of those Clover ramps um of the 495 Route 3 interchange and um on Riverneck Road. Our study area includes um the the
signalized intersection of Bill Ricka Road, Golden Cove Road, and Turnpike Road. The unsalized so stop controlled intersection of Riverneck Road and Bill Ricker Road. And then at the other end past the site um the unsalized intersection of Riverneck Road and
Carile. Um go to the next one please. So I mentioned we collected traffic count data. Um one of the things we did do was an ATR count. So that's like they put the tubes on the road. Sometimes now we actually do them with video. Um but when we need speed data and vehicle classification data, we get them still
with the tubes. So you may have seen the tubes on the road. Um this is a pretty low volume road. 2900 vehicles per day. Um the heavy vehicles out there today, it's about 1.4% for both directions. So
42 out of those 2900 over the whole day uh were heavy vehicles. Average speed about 31 a.5 miles an hour. 85th percentile 35 miles an hour. I believe the posted speed is 30. So there's a little bit of speeding going on there which is a little um interesting considering the geometrics of the road
in places. Um then we did some crash analysis. So this is um graphic. Can you scroll up just a little bit more, Felisa Evan? Um the other way. There we go. Um so we did get some crash data from Mass
DOT and so that that data is shown here. Now Mass DOT has what they called closed data and right now their closed data which means that they've verified the locations of the data is correct. Right now that data only goes through 2021. So, one of the things that your
peerreview consultant asked us to do is to get crash data for the more recent years from the police department. So, we have requested that data. It's in process. We don't have it yet. We hope to have it before we come back to you the next time. And so, then we'll add that to show um what that shows for our
study area locations. Um so, here's our site plan that um Casey was just talking about. You can kind of see um the different pieces there. and Riverneck there is on the bottom of the plan. I'm not going to spend a ton of time on this. Um I think
you all are familiar with it. Now when we get into the project trip generation, so when we originally did the TIS um the traffic impact study, we had a little bit larger building. So that means we overestimated the impact a little bit in the study that was submitted. Um the
building has been scaled back a little bit. So you can see the the new tripgen is on the right there. And this is another thing that when we make the revisions to the traffic study, um which there are some additional um things that your peerreview consultant asked us for.
There's um a couple of buildings nearby that are recently um re what's the right word? Repopu >> repurposed. Thank you. Um and so they were unoccupied, they are now occupied. So they asked that we incorporate that
into the analysis. So, we will be doing that and updating all the analysis. And when we do that, we will also incorporate the new trip numbers, the ones that are on the right side of this table. So, they're just a smidge less because the building is just a smidge smaller. So, then we did our traffic
analysis um that we we look at those again the those intersections as well as the site driveway. And this gives you a little summary of um of the operations. So it's like a report card A through we say A through D generally is considered
acceptable in urban and suburban areas around Boston and then F is failing. Um but we'll talk more about that. So you can see the riverneck road um south I think I might have those backwards actually. I think it's the southbound right that is um I think the left and
right are switched on this apologies. Um it's actually the right is the heavy movement coming out of Riverneck onto Bill Ricka heading towards where we are now. Right. Um and so that actually gets backed up, but it clears fairly quickly, but it is a stop control and the
traffic, as you probably are all familiar, um on Bill Ricker Road at certain times of day can be fairly busy. So, you can see that um that right turn movement. I like I said, I think the left and right there that's kind of in the middle of the screen. Um and then we also have the signal at Bill Ricker
Road, Golden Cove, and Turnpike Road is operating at level service D in all time periods. Uh we did look at Saturday here as well. So and then at Carlilele at the other end you can see those um that intersection is operating fairly well as well. We have B's and C's there. And the
numbers on the bottom are Q lengths. We don't have a Q length. We don't have Q lengths listed here for the inter the signalized intersection because we don't report them for the whole intersection. We only report them they're by movement. But generally speaking, they're as as expected. And as you might be aware, um
I know when I come to our Chumsford office, I come through Golden Cove and at 6:45 in the morning, there is a queue, but it clears fairly quickly. Um but generally speaking, I would say that intersection, the D is representative of what's going on there. And then if we go to >> why are there three different uh things
there? >> So like at any given >> So it's so it's we did three conditions. The three conditions. So there's an existing condition in the morning rush in the morning peak hour. So that was the slide that we're on right now. Um and then there's that no build condition which is the future without the project.
That's seven years in the future and then the build. So that's the three in order. Okay. Left to right. Yep. >> Um and then if we go to the PM you'll see similar thing there. um similar conditions. Again, the the um Riverneck Road and Bill Ricker Road, you
have some um a little bit long wait times because you're at a stop control, right? And you're waiting for the especially for a left turn, you're waiting, you're waiting for both directions. That volume's not very heavy, but you have to wait for both, you know, to gap in both directions. Um
so generally speaking um not a lot of trips here and that it's minor impact on the roadways but again we are going to update all of this per your peer reviewers requests in a couple of different things. So you'll see more information at a future meeting and I'll
happy to take any questions. >> One thing you talk about the other places that we studied and the data >> Oh yes thank you. Um so we did study a couple of other locations for the contractor's yard um which was at Evans
request and then and at your peer reviewer's request. Um rather than just use we have um the IT trip generation manual. You may have heard that with respect to other projects that have come before you. Um there is a specialty contractor category in the trip generation manual but we did also
collect other local data. Um, we actually found that the local data was lower than the trip the IT rates. So, we use the IT rates to be conservative. So, overestimate the impact and see where we go from there.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Evan, do you have anything else to add? >> Not not on this presentation. >> Okay. Questions, comments from the board. We'll go around starting with Sertha since she's got the mic. >> I just have a really quick question. And if you can go back to what she had up
there, um it looked like as the build condition happened, some of it went to F and you said F was failing. >> Yeah. So like if we look at the PM peak hour here, so that's the afternoon rush hour, right? Um yes, it starts. So the
existing is D and four vehicles in Q and then in the no build it goes to E and that's five vehicles in Q um during that one hour and then it goes to F with six vehicles in Q. So I will say um
generally speaking relative to um operations of stop controlled intersections. So, our program when it analyzes a stop controlled intersection, it uses very conservative values for that gap number that I was talking about before and I definitely
having done gap studies in Massachusetts, um Massachusetts drivers will tend to take a shorter gap which means that those numbers are probably a little overestimated on how many cars would be in Q and how long the so whether it would go to F. But yes, you
are correct. And then the riverneck left is it's tough to make the left out of Riverneck onto Bria at particularly the peak hours. It's a very small like I think it's under 20 vehicles an hour that actually want to make that turn. Most of most people are making the right out of riverneck road but it is tough to
do it just because there's a lot of traffic on Bill Ricker Road >> Marcy. >> Um no cuz mine was just Joel had asked earlier about the three different numbers on it explaining that. So that was my >> apologies. Thank you cuz I didn't explain the the legend. So good
question. >> You >> I'm good, >> Anita. >> So my concern. So um taking a little history back before 495 came in. There were all these little
roads and Riverneck Road was built way back when because some of these houses are very old on this road. Um and it wasn't a very wide road. When 495 came in in the early 60s, Riverneck Road now became the main road to connect Chums to
East Chums. U whereas before we we had other ways of getting there. We have a lot of houses that were built before 495 came in that are on this road. River Road can only be widened so
much. There's there's a lot of houses that do not have the frontage. um on a traffic study. I guess my concern is I don't expect there to be significant increase, but
how many times a day your house is going to be sh you know shaken um by these trucks going up and down like like have we looked at that and the quality of life in the house is impacted on both ways?
>> So the number of trucks is actually smaller than you might think. Um, most of the most of the traffic going back and forth here is going to be employees in their personal vehicles coming and going. The truck numbers are actually like I think we estimated over the whole
day 20 because a lot of times and someone else wants to jump in here because this is more their expertise than mine. But in terms of the operations, so if there's a contractor that's here, they're not necessarily bringing their heavy equipment to and from here every day. It's going out to a
site. And I'm going to use since we talked about paving earlier, I'm gonna use a paving example. So, for example, if you're a paving contractor and you have a paver and that paver is going to have trucks that come and bring the asphalt, right? But then you've got your rollers and the rollers come and they're on a trailer, for example. It's out at a
job, they're doing the job, and then when it's done, they're moving it to the next job. They're not necessarily bringing it back to the yard. Then why do we have storage and places for it to be parked in the yard? >> Well, because that eventually like it does come back at times, but it's not
coming back and forth to the yard every day. Did I explain that relatively well? Okay. >> Well, some of it is used seasonally, too, which is why they're too. So, like >> So, do we have um do you have who's going in this facility yet? Because last
we talked you guys didn't have >> people Yeah, I mean we know Commonwealth Utilities is going in the back building and we know that there'll be small contractors in the front building and those will be limited by the leases in
the area in the front. So there's very limited space. Most of the area for storage here is only used by Commonwealth and their known production and their known equipment, their known issues, their known business. The front area is the only area for places to be
leased and so it's very limited in what they can have in the front area based on the small area that we've given them for outside storage which is very small which is just those little bays at the back parking and then the bay inside the
building. And so the intention there is that a big paving company can't come and utilize one of these or or unless they were to buy or at least every single aspect of the building and then use this entire area. The idea is for it to be
fit under the definition of contractor which would be like a plumber with a van um an electrician possibly with a van. They're coming there. they're dropping their truck off, grabbing their van and going and keeping their piping or electrical supplies there and coming and
going there. Keeping maybe a pallet of product outside wrapped um in the small area that they have. So all of that storage area at the back is specifically to Commonwealth and only Commonwealth. >> So in that back section, how many pieces
of heavy equipment could fit? fit design. >> Right. >> Right. But how many pieces is that that did you design to hold? So we have provided spaces for 10 uh trucks or heavier trucks. So that
could be like a 10 wheel dump truck or a um kind of tractor to pull a larger trailer. Uh we have provided six trailer spaces which I believe is an overestimation based on what they needed but we had the space. We just wanted to make sure that we could accommodate. And
then four excavator spaces. And those excavator spaces are not intended for for that excavator to be, you know, started every day and ran on site. It's we're going to load up a trailer, get it on the trailer, and then that'll be out. But that's not a daily occurrence either. That excavator is intended to be
moved from sight to sight. If it's if it's here, it's because it just needs to go into the shop, get an oil change or something, and move on. Um, it's not here to be taken in and out every day. So these spaces are just there to accommodate what may occur on the site given in between jobs they need to
transfer from one to another but there's a week that it's down. So it's going to come here be parked for a week then go out to the next job once it's there. It's not intended to be an in and out. >> And on that traffic study you were stating there's about 42 I forget what the number was of the heavier equipment. And I mean
>> no that's existing. Yeah, that's >> I know that's what I'm asking. Right. So, you're saying about 42 and with the amount of spaces here, if they were to move back and forth every day, I mean, it's like what? A third >> more, >> right? 30% more. >> So, we actually studied their existing
operation as part of >> Katie, could you go to the microphone? >> Thank you. >> You know better. >> Um, we actually studied their existing operation and as Krie said, they were significantly less as far as what because their business is to have their equipment. They're not doing
construction on this site. They're not using this equipment on this site. This is only like a space to have their business office and to have their employees come and go. This equipment is only making money if it's not here. >> I get that. But the reason why you're moving to a new space and any person who
is in business is to have their business grow. So, you can't use it like you can't tell me that this well this is what we're doing now and we're going to be like that forever because that makes no >> common sense whatsoever. I assume they're in business to grow
>> and they're not going to say no to growth. So >> that's what we need to look at it and I appreciate you looking at what they're currently doing, but this is so this is in a neighborhood >> and that's but that's why we're we didn't use the exist like we did study
it but we used the more conservative higher trip counts because that accounts for that growth that you're talking about. >> Okay. Yeah, >> John, >> you may have mentioned this and I may have missed it, but on the on so on the
side where it says trip generation 62 new vehicles trips in the morning and expected to generate 73 new vehicle trips in the evening rush hour. Um any could you I believe you spoke a little bit about trucks. Could you give like an estimated breakout out of those numbers?
How many are trucks and how many are passenger cars? So during the peak hours, we actually um the data from it says that none of those vehicles during the peak hours are trucks because the trucks are typically before or after
like truckers don't and I would say this for construction vehicles too. They don't want to have to be stuck in traffic. So they're going earlier or they're going after the rush hour. So we I think I said 20. It's 22 actually is the number based on the square footage
that we expect in terms of truck trips and none of those are happening during the rush hours. >> What time is the high school in in the morning? >> Um around that area >> 7 o'clock. >> I know I live right off of Bela Road and the bus picked up my kids 6:50. >> So are they >> So
>> when you say >> Well, I mean I don't have exact times. I can just tell you that that one hour that we studied that the numbers that Mr. Susa asked about are that's typically not when they would be traveling. They might be traveling earlier. They might be traveling later. Yes. The buses are coming down Robvenac
Road before 650 because they would come down that >> Right. Right. Right. >> I think what we're talking about is that the the school bus traffic is not happening during the peak hour and so the >> Well, no, that's what she's saying though is that you know the trucks aren't rolling during like you know that type. So when the school buses are
rolling it's sometimes normally especially the high school is before peak hour. So, the trucks are going to be rolling when the >> when the high school kids buses are rolling. >> Even before them. >> Yeah, potentially even before them. >> I don't know if I want those trucks rolling and that res. So, then we run
into So, then we're going to be running into if they're rolling before then, then they're waking up everybody. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. >> That's all I have for now, Joel. >> Yeah. So, there's dailies, I understand, and then
there's peak hours. So the current existing conditions there's 2900 daily and then there's 42 heavies. >> Correct. >> Right. Okay. So the project what is its daily count and total and
then also trucks heavies. So, I think, let me just double check my number, but I think it is 362 daily. And again, that's using the more conservative um IT data. Let me just make sure I'm giving you the right
number. >> I believe that's correct. And then it was 22 of those daily are trucks or heavy vehicles of various, you know, kinds. >> Okay. So it's basically a 50% increase in the heavies
more or less from from this use >> is what that math is correct. >> Okay. >> And then you say for the peak hours you don't have it doesn't give you estimates for heavy. >> No no they do that the estimate is zero. >> There are no the data shows there are no
trucks right based on their their available data >> right >> during the peaks. >> Okay. And then um what is the projected no build on heavies total and heavies daily? >> That I do not have. I would have to look
I would have to get back to you. >> Yeah, I would like to know. >> I mean we we would I don't think we Yeah, I'll have to get back to you on that on what those numbers were. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I'm sorry I missed the I think Joel just asked for this number, but I missed it.
The there's 42 heavies currently >> and then this project is thought to increase >> 22 >> by 22. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And is that using the total space? >> I'm sorry. >> Is that using the total the square footage? Right. And typically it use the
square footage. >> Yes. >> So they're assuming that this is for outdoor contractor use. Yeah, the the land use code in it is called specialty contractor. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.
>> That's all I have right now. Mike, >> nothing particular here. I think I've heard most of it. >> All right. Um on the front contractor piece, I'm assuming you did the IT based on the
total square footage. Is it possible to get the IT data based on individual square footage? Because if you have one contractor building with that total square footage, >> the total number of vehicles is likely
going to be less than individual units because each contractor business has a base amount of vehicles. Um, and then as with any economies of scale, if you combine stuff, you reduce
the numbers. So, I would guess that if you took 14 uh contractor yard numbers with the individual square footage and added them together, you would likely get an increase in traffic numbers. But I could
be wrong. Well, yeah, because you would have to in like if you have 14 units, right? Like say it's 1,000 square feet and it's 14,000 together, right? 14,000 square feet may be 10 vehicles whereas you have 14 1,000 square feet. They may
be like you may apply 0.5, but you have to assume at least one. So that becomes 14. So, so that's where >> we can do the math, but that's why we studied West Park is because they're individual contractors. And we heard that question preliminarily. And so, not only did we study Commonwealth
themselves, but we studied West Park, which is basically I looked at the use charts. I looked at the use charts here. I looked at the use charts there. We looked at the same type of it's the office in the front. It's the it's the overhead door in the back. They have many more units than 14 in that park. and we studied
that park and the it was more conservative than that park. >> Mhm. >> But did I guess but I would still want to have it apply to the individual square footage. >> We can we can do that math. >> I like to see that number. >> We we can give you that math. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes.
>> Was what you're sorry what you're asking right? Y >> um I'm also noticing that the side streets Orleans, McFarland, Monmouth, they're they weren't in the study. Yeah, that's typical because they don't
connect through. So, there wouldn't be a reason why our traffic would need to go there. >> I don't believe most of them don't. They're all mostly dead ends. So, there would be a reason why our traffic would be be turning down those roads.
>> They wouldn't be turning down, but if there's traffic on the main road, that would cause issues on the side roads, would it not? I mean, it's a little more. Yeah, it's a little more volume. Um, I will say typically for a two-lane
road, your capacity is well over 15,000 vehicles a day and we're at 2900. So, there shouldn't be much of an issue. And I think that was kind of indicated by the which I didn't have on the slide, but the um we did the analysis of the
site driveway as well, you know, with the site traffic and it's operating just fine with no issues. And I would expect the the side roads with similar, you know, I I don't remember, but you know, how many however many houses are down each road. I would expect it's probably
similar in volumes. >> Okay. I'm also, and this is something that we've tried to address on other projects in the past as well, but one of the concerns I have here is less about overall volume of
traffic and more about the safety of the road, especially with the 50% increase in truck traffic. Um, we've got bus stops on this road. We've got um a number of stretch or stretch of
road on both sides that are pretty narrow and winding and without sidewalks. So, one of the things I would have liked to have seen in this is a little bit more of the safety and roadway geometry um in on those areas that are a little
bit more narrow >> because we have seen cases um and I think the one of the neighbors provided photos of trucks going over center lines on the curves um and if we're seeing an
increase in the heav use of 50% it might increase that. >> So respectfully, if I have one and I increase by one, that's an increase of 100%. Right. So part of that is also the small number is 50% increase. But I hear
what you're saying. Um, one of the things that your peer reviewer did ask for was for us to look at or or to consider an inind fair share contribution toward I understand the town is looking at the idea of sidewalk on one side or another. So, I mean that
is something that we are considering. >> There's no room like if you like have you driven on this road? There's >> Yes. Yes, I have driven on this road. Boston Fleet games from the office all of last season. >> Um I I can't speak to whether there's room. I'm just saying that that was
something that your peer reviewer >> the smarts yard. We're going to put the sidewalks within. Might as well just do that. >> My living room. >> Yes. That's actually all I had. >> My quick question with this, like when you were looking at like I know we're
talking about the um contractor yards trucks, but we looked at also the trucks that are coming in to bring uh stuff to those um the bays like just you know like >> supply. Yeah. Supply delivery. Yes, that's part that's part of those trucks
too. So whether they get them from the Amazon guys or UPS, >> those guys aren't going to come at like before hours. They're going to come at the main hours. That's when they're out doing their runs and deliveries and at high peak traffic time. >> And is that something does the office receive them or does somebody from the
little small contractor have to be there to receive >> um that I do not know? >> Yeah, I mean I think we would >> Yeah, I would assume. >> Yeah, I would I honestly I don't know. >> Any other questions, comments?
At this time, I think I'm going to open it up to the public for comment. >> Emory Smart, 223 Riverneck Road. Um, my questions are the material that's coming in, I'm not sure what it is. I was thinking that it's construction
material. Will that be delivered by 18 wheelers? Um, and then also you talked about the growth. That's a big issue, the growth. And what if they sell the business and um the infrastructure of Riverneck Road and um just keep thinking
about Ledge Road and it's bringing up a lot of those same. I listened to that uh and I watched it and I listened to what was going on and I feel like I'm having deja vu. So those are just a quick questions that I just wrote down.
>> Thank you. >> Great point. >> Lodge road. >> Okay. I didn't even think of that one. >> Yep. >> Judy D'Angelus. Rivenick Road. all my life. As you get down that road, you may travel it, but my field stone foundation
is 10 feet from the road. There's no room for part for uh sidewalks. As you come down Rivenck, there's a valley across the street from me. No, no footage there for sidewalks. You would have to go up the road, cross the road, over the road, back over the road to do
sidewalks. They're not going to happen. I think the other thing is making sure as it's coming down the road, twin trucking comes by now. My house shakes like you wouldn't believe. There's divots in the road on Rivenac. It needs to be paved. So if you're going to input
money, pave the road. Never mind sidewalks. >> As it comes by those trucks, and there are more trucks than you think during peak hours because I live there. I see them. And they are shaking the houses going by. So, as you're coming in with
your equipment, we're living there. You're just storing there. So, as you're if you're coming in and you're coming in quiet and coming in ready to do it, yay. But you're talking big trucks on this road that we're living in.
Think about it. That's all. >> Someone on Zoom. >> Okay, we'll take one more in the room and then we'll go to the Zoom. Frank Smart 223 Riverneck Road. Has anybody been buying my house the wall?
See the asphalt on it. Imagine how far it can get from the road to my lawn earlier in the evening. What was that sound that went by? Was that a very loud truck?
I'm going to hear that every day. Not only when they are towing a 60,000 pound excavator. How about returning when they start from Bill Ricker Road going up the long curve
up to the plateau? All those residents that live out there, the front side, that's going to be awful. And they're saying they're going to be before the school. Unbelievable.
My son's going to buy my house and he has two children, two and eight. They're going to attend Chelsea schools. That's going to, you know, he lives in a nice environment now and has nothing. I hate to tell him what he's going to come
home to. Thank you. >> We have someone on Zoom. >> Yes. Coming up now. Am I on? >> Yep. Yep. >> Yes. >> Hi, I'm Song. Um I live on on 36 M
Street. I'm not on Riverneck, but I'm off of it and the only in and out of my street is through Riverneck. Um I just wanted to add to um the recommendation of putting in sidewalk if this is to be
approved. I can't speak for how how feasible sidewalk is. I may take a look in the coming weeks to see if it's feasible um on river, but um there are approximately at least like 10 kids on that street and
um I haven't recently gone out with my bike um outside of my momm street, but I know plenty of families who do take their kids on a bike ride. um to to um you know take take ride that bike and take you all the
way to Bruce um Freeman Trail and if we're gonna have big trucks coming come and go um I fear for the safety of not just my kids but everyone on that street. Um so I just wanted to add to um
that particular comment how if we want to prove it how we should attempt to have at least a sidewalk funded. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Any other one folks from public? Yeah, Bruce Bruce Traola, 13 McFarland Road. I'm just curious. You talked about um having the trucks coming and going during off peak.
What how early do you have trucks leaving your yard? between 6 and 615. >> Between 6 and 615 because right now >> those big vehicles we own three that would >> Could you come to the microphone for us
please? Thank you. >> Chris Dphano with Commonwealth. Uh so of those big vehicles that uh everyone is talking about, we do own close to 10. Three of them are dispatched from that yard every day as of right now. Um like Katie stated, all of our equipment is on
job sites. We've worked for the town of Charlesford. Everything you see us on the side of the road detouring people around. Like that's what we do. Um we do water and sewer work for municipalities. So the the equipment in the trucks are on the job site every day. They come back to get repaired. Um they they go
out, they're stored there in between jobs. You're not going to hear machines running other than uh getting pulled in for service or possibly leaving that day. So I just want to clarify that. It's not like it's all these trucks are loading up in the morning and leaving. And the the front building is not geared
toward a paving operation. That's not what we're trying. It's it's going to be towards like a plumber, electrician. That's not set up for a paving operation. I mean, those guys have multiple trucks, pavers, rollers. That's that's not set up for there. That's not what we're gearing for a tenant. I don't want to make it any worse than you've
the board thinks it is already. It's geared for a plumber, electrician. You see them every day. You use them every day. And uh you know, they're readily available here on this road. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it was just a concern of of
the noise because right now we have a ton of noise now from 495 hearing trucks using Jake brakes and hearing more trucks firing up early in the morning would be really concerning. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Any other public? >> One more. to >> they're fighting who gets to go first. >> Sean Campbell. Uh 19 Moment Street, Precinct 10. Um so I submitted the
report about the kind of traffic study. Uh I'll try and be brief tonight because it sounds like you know it's pretty late and we're going to probably do this again. Um but you know we have a lot of problems uh on Riverneck Road. Um, and I
think, you know, anytime that you want to build on it, it just highlights the problems that we know about, uh, including the bus stops, the blind corners. Um, I mean, the bus stops are they're dangerous. Um, and you know, we have the way that the bus comes, it's
actually it's not even shielded by the bus. The child has to cross the road and it's a blind corner and it's it's scary. And um I can tell you that parents are pulling kids back. Uh and I've seen it.
Uh so, you know, it's definitely uh scary. Uh the other thing I I'd like to add um is uh you know, so I I worked in West a long time ago and I can tell you um at lunchtime you leave, you know, and
there there was like a I think a H station and there was amenities and you would you would get food. I mean, that's what you want to do. So, you can't just imagine these these bays are going to go there and they're going to be there all day. I mean, they're going to want to they're going to want to go to Dunkin Donuts. They're going to want they're
going to want food. They're not just going to bring food. They might order out food, but there's 15 different operations or more. And they're not going to have their own cafeteria. Um, so there'll be more traffic than I think was listed in the traffic study. Um,
let's see. Um, obviously the sidewalks, I mean, we need a sidewalk, but if you look at the pictures I submitted, you see these trucks and they're 10 ft away from somebody's foundation. >> Uh, so I don't know how you go about
putting the sidewalk in. I mean, it it's I mean, they can shake hands with that truck. And that truck, you know, he he's crossing the center line because he's he knows, oh, wow, there's not much here. I mean, he he he's concerned. I think the I don't think the driver is impaired. I
think he's just looking at the road going, "Well, I got to kind of make some adjustment here." Um, and uh, you know, that's kind of my map that that I submitted that I think we we got up here and it didn't come across right, but I was trying to highlight these bus stops. So, we have these mega bus stops that
have, you know, maybe 10 children at different hours. So you know the the cher school system it runs you know high school, middle school, elementary and the different cycles and so there's constantly these these children just
boarding buses. Um and uh any any additional traffic like it's scary today but any additional you know adds to the fear. So these are just things to consider. Um I I I I'll be back at the next meeting and I'll present you know more and uh you know um if you get a
chance you know read my my article on the traffic and uh thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> One more. >> Thanks. Thanks Chris. There's two items I forgot. >> You get up here and you get all nervous.
Once again Frank Smart 223 Riverneck Road. Um, they told us how many pieces of equipment they have. Did they tell us how many pieces that they lease? >> They have other locations in the state.
What happens if they close down those move to Shelford? Let's think about that. >> Thank you. Uh just to clarify, we have one location and that's here in Chsford. Uh we originated started in Maynard which is
out of my parents house. Obviously we don't have any equipment there. We rent a spot in Watertown and that's where our equipment is when we're working down that area and we used Watertown address for a while and we we bought a piece of property up here um years ago and that's
where we've been sent. So we do not have any other locations. We have yards that we store equipment at. Yes, but nothing that there's no other operation or headquarters, just here. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And I just want to clarify to uh Katie just as far as condition of road and
sidewalks. That's a DPW conversation and Casey started conversations with them about they were the one that brought up the fact that they had already looked at sidewalk and it's being discussed. So, I think we can have further conversation certainly with DPW about their plans for Riverneck Road and how they were
planning to accommodate the sidewalk because it's certainly already been studied it sounds like from our initial conversations with them, which is why they told us not to build it on our side of the road to give money towards the construction of it um for when that comes to be. So, we can certainly talk
to DPW about that. Um and then um Ken Fail is here who's our architect. We did want to touch on the architectural changes before we close out for tonight and continue to the next meeting. Um, so if Ken can come up, you could you can leave it on that right there. Um, good evening. Ken File, LYF
Architects, uh, out of Havville, Mass. And, um, yeah, we made some architectural changes. Um, I'll just briefly go through them. You can see using this perspective. Um, we we further lowered their perceived building height. Um we actually removed the large entry gables we had elements we had
before and we actually made smaller um entry gables that actually project more off the building. Um before it was very flat. This actually projects off um six feet and it actually provides more depth to the building. Um we actually removed the small applied um shingle roof and we
provide a multi-layered uh parap parapit and tablet um across the face of the building. Um we um removed the we had lap siding across the entire front. And here we actually um provide a little more texture to the building um by
providing a um a vertical ribbed uh metal panel and then the entry elements maintain the uh the lap siding. Um again giving a little more texture uh to the building. Um we consolidated um unit entry. So there's actually one entry on
the facade that then goes to a vestibule that we then um branch off into two into either unit. Um we changed out the brick base for a stone base. Um we uh made the entry elements wider and we actually
elevated them above the uh the main roof to again break up the mass of the building. Um, we changed the um the windows uh to be double hung with shutters um again to incorporate aspects of the uh the the residential elements
around the uh the neighborhood. And we actually updated the uh the the landscaping to actually more more accurately reflect the the landscape plan. >> That was it. >> Thank you, >> Evan. Um before the next meeting, could
we get more details from DPW on what their plans are >> for that? Any other questions or comments for the evening? I'd like to make a comment. Um
I think in the in this is just my personal opinion. I do like the front part of this project. It's the heavies that I'm concerned about, which is associated with Commonwealth youths. That to me is, if I
consider the criteria for a special permit, makes this project very challenging. Um, that's where I'm at. I if this was strictly the kind of use outdoor contractor use that's pre that's
proposed on the upper half of the site I'm actually really fine with that because it doesn't involve heavies but it's the operation that involves heavies that concerns me that's where I'm at. >> Any other questions or comments?
>> Would the applicant want us to do a straw poll? Would that be helpful for the applicant to do a straw poll? No, I think we need to have peer review here. >> Okay. >> I think we need to hear from your peer review regarding the traffic study so
that you can I think feel a little bit more confident about what we're giving you for numbers and understand where sort of where we are with traffic. And I think overall just I think you would feel better hearing from Jeffrey Durk, but I could be wrong. I think that we
still have some revisions to make. I think um if you're concerned about our traffic numbers, I think you need to hear from your peer review before I think that's the reason why we paid for it and you had it done was to make sure that what we're telling you is is truthful in the way that this site is going to be used. I think you need to
hear from DPW about sidewalks and roadway construction. This is a public road in the town of Chumsford um before I don't think you have all the information you need to accurately make a decision tonight. So, I don't think it's I don't think
it's you've heard is what is representative of the full information you should have as a board before making that decision. >> All right. Um I think at this point I will entertain a motion to continue to next meeting. >> You certainly have one.
>> Motion for Mike. >> Seconded. >> Second from Marcy. All in favor >> will go first. Yes. >> Yes. We will put this first >> um >> first public hearing in the next meeting. All in favor >> I
>> unanimous continue to next meeting. Thank you everyone. >> All right. >> We're getting close to the end. except >> people a chance to exit. >> Out there with the papers standing.
>> All right, next item on the agenda. >> Community development director's report. It's a new item I have started to add to the agenda. >> Oh. Um it's quite exciting. >> It is. It is. This is the debut. >> Uh yes, big debut
>> for you or us. >> Uh so everybody, I would think um previewing uh your next agenda. Two new items. 12K Road will be a um minor modification. >> Uh this is this is related I'm sorry.
12K. >> Oh, Ker. >> Uh minor modification. And this is related to probably predates most of you other than uh Mr. Raybeck. Um >> yeah, I know this one. >> Uh it's related to a uh an originally
approved um site plan special permit went to a a butter appeal came back to the board during the appeal for a modification to allow the project to continue until the appeal was resolved. The appeal's been resolved.
However, the original decision includes a condition that wasn't resolved but needs to be um the modifications to eliminate a condition. So, I'll leave it at that. Um 345 North Road, which is the small
commercial plaza uh right beyond um technology drive. is coming in for COID applicability to convert the second existing second floor to residential. Um that's gone through uh some initial
uh departmental uh meetings. Provide a quick upate update on ADUs. Um at the recent select boards meeting there was an update given via memo by the building commissioner. I think he said that uh there's about 12
applications um that are in some uh variety of uh process. One has been issued. Um my update I want to highlight um 28 Alado was last week's zoning board
meeting was the first um ADU application in which a um an applicant uh was seeking a waiver from the second driveway uh provision. Uh upon a vote of two in favor, three against that was uh that request was
denied. Um, so at this point we are staff is drafting that decision and we'll we'll have that decision clocked in. >> Um, can I just add to that? What was really interesting, what I found really interesting on that, which I didn't think about when we were doing a ADU,
I'm glad we did put that in about the driveway, but the ADU 900 square ft is just for the living area. So this you this ADU also had a garage which brought the whole little structure up to 1100
ft² and the garage can't be counted in the 900 and they wanted a separate driveway. So this was basically adding a house on a lot like it was I'm I'm very happy that the ZBA did
uphold that. But this was exactly again like I didn't like I didn't think about it when when I was thinking 900 ft. I assumed that also like if there was a garage that included that but that doesn't um and that was a little eye
opening to me. >> Thank you. >> But a garage would still meet need to meet like far and stuff like that, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so there's a prior to uh last week's zoning board meeting, there were uh there was at least one other uh ADU driveway that was
in the queue for an upcoming uh ZBA meeting. And then there I think there was one that um was in process of being submitted. So we've updated those applicants accordingly, encouraged them to watch the video and and so forth. >> Um Joel May mentioned the the the gap
analysis. Do you want to talk about that? >> No, you can talk about it. >> Okay. Um, so maybe five weeks ago at this point, uh, staff met with, uh, the consultant. It was a productive meeting. Um, I think we keyed
in on a methodology. Um the methodology being to uh create a uh a checklist that identifies specific criteria um for different project types that
would uh if you if you're let's say you're in close proximity to a zone a zone one or a close proximity to a zone two in uh a perennial stream that has you know a direct hydraology connection. So those are the kind of the criteria
that we're trying to identify all in the hopes of um making it clear via matrix what projects would trigger what types of soil and groundwater characterization. >> Um so that's a work in progress. I
>> Evan, I have a question on that. >> Would that checklist include who owns those? I ideally would it would clarify um what what boards
um would be would be keying in on on what aspects of it. >> Okay. >> Based upon you know the existing regulatory um makeup. >> Okay. Good. Thanks. >> Um so I think we're on the right track with that. Um my understanding is that
the consultant will provide a draft. Staff will review it and at some point obviously this still needs to go to you know the all the uh at least the planning board in Hong Kong. Uh that is all I have for my first director's meeting uh report. >> That's awesome.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Board of health >> in board of health. Yes. >> All right. Leon updates. >> Nothing here. We meet tomorrow. >> I got nothing. I missed the last meeting. Do you want to
>> which which uh >> housing advisory? >> They didn't have a quorum at the last meeting >> because I missed the meeting probably. >> Do you have an update? >> No, I didn't finish watching video with the AD. >> Nim did not meet during August and but they will be meeting next week. So I'll have a meeting to attend next week as a
planning board member. >> Okay. By board of health. All right. >> Yeah. to sort of tag on to what uh Evan was saying. It was actually a very good discussion particularly about 242
Riverneck because in discussing that one they sort of discussed and in particular Richard Day is the one who's really spearheading >> 242 Riverneck which one's that one >> not neck I'm sorry Bill >> okay that's the >> I'm confusing because at the meeting I said 150 Dalton and I meant 152 Steman
and I was confusing the daylights out of people >> that's okay >> I feel like I'm like deja some of these meetings because it was a discussion about well you know what was going to be the extent of the geohhydro study and so forth and so on and they they felt that they didn't need a full geo study but
that Richard Day was going to look at what data was available in terms of the borings that they did uh to get some sense of uh several factors which he outlined which I thought was really really good to keep in mind and that is that the first thing that they're going
to look at is is there potential for contaminants on the site and do they want to do testing related to that. The second one is understanding what the direction of the flow groundwater flow is uh when you can get some indication of that from where the seasonal high
groundwater is and then also how what would play out if there was actually some sort of release release on the site. So I thought that was a really good set of criteria which complements nicely you know the work that we do. So, I think that um you know, it's been it's
been a very good relationship in terms of our aquifer protection interests um as far as what the board of health is doing, what we're doing. And then, um yeah, so we so there's still it's still a little bit squishy as to what the what
the sort of uh uh time frame of this gap analysis is, but I do agree with Evan. It sounds like it's it's somewhat more focused than it was before, perhaps. steps forward, one step back. >> Well, yeah.
>> Are you doing anything about um the Riverneck Road project yet? The board of health >> that didn't come up in the meeting, I don't believe. Riverneck Road, I don't think so. >> This project that we just talked about or Oh, okay. >> Um
I don't remember if it's come before them or not. I've had an offrecord conversation with Richard Day about it, but >> that's the extent of it as far as I know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then there was a bunch of health related stuff too, including uh
they had gotten three positives for Westnile virus and so they sprayed the same day and there's been nothing indicated since stuff like that. >> Okay. Mike, any >> No, I have not. Uh >> okay. I think I made it to one
historically, but not much happened. >> All right. Um, for Concom, their meeting yesterday was pretty short and, uh, they had a lot of continuations and one no-show. Um, so they didn't do too much yesterday. Uh, that's related to our
stuff. Um, I did want to give an update on the fall town meeting zoning. I am presenting to Fincom on the 18th and then select board on the 22nd. Um both boards are in
for an interesting presentation because there are 52 slides for all of the zoning. >> Going to hijack their meetings. >> Yes. Um, and I did want to mention some minor changes uh to the slides and the
um motions that you'll see after the legal review. Um, I met with Evan and Town Council and Paul. Um, and there were some housekeeping things that I just wanted you to be aware of. the accessory parking footnote on we added
it to the industrial accessory parking but we forgot it on the commercial um accessory parking. So we added that footnote in on um the commercial side um because I know we had talked about it but it just never got to the the uh
table. Um, and then we did some minor rewarding to clarify that distance of the accessory parking because the way it was worded, it sounded like it was 300 ft from property to property
>> rather than from the parking lot to the uh building use. So, we clarified that um the ADU um
zoning article was slightly changed. We had um two proposed changes to two different paragraphs, C3 and C4. What the what town council explained is
that when the AG did the crossouts that was legally approved. So we do not have to approve that at town meeting. So in the C3 um air in the C3 paragraph there
was just some words that she struck. We didn't even include that as part of the article because that was automatically um approved when she did that. >> No, >> for the C4, she technically took out that entire
section. However, in >> which was that? I'm sorry. >> Uh I forget what it was. You'd have to go back to the slides. I don't remember the exact It was It was related to the special permit process.
Um, and she struck that entire paragraph. After she did that, town council met with her office to um come up with some rewarding.
>> And that's what essentially the the new wording without the strikethroughs and the additions. the new wording as complete paragraph is what we're going to be voting on putting back in to that blank section essentially.
>> We don't have like so we're not going to show the the AG strikeout because in essence them striking it out is automatically approved. So we don't need town meeting to approve the strikeout. Correct. >> We just need them to approve the wording added in. >> Yeah. And it'll be the new complete wording, not all of the edits that we
saw, >> which is probably a little bit better from a town perspective, >> easier to pay attention to cleaner. >> So that that's the difference there. The last thing is um I had discussion with town council on the definition of family.
>> He did have some concerns with the permanence and cohesion piece of it um because it could be legally difficult to define. It also may come with some questions at town meeting um related to
that and it he said it won't hurt to leave it in but it may cause some confusion at town meeting. >> So did you have a recommendation? >> Yeah, what we came out with is we'll leave it in. Um it may provide some
clarity, it may not, but it's not going to hurt anything. And then if people have concerns, we could remove it. If the board is okay with that, um I will have a motion ready to remove it if it becomes problematic
at town meeting. >> Um he doesn't think it's going to matter either way legally. Um but if if the board wants to keep it in, we can keep it in. It won't hurt anything. But if it does create confusion and problems at town meeting and people focus too much
on it, we can easily remove it with an amendment. >> Yeah, I don't think that's going to be the issue that we're going to be fighting. >> I don't think so either, but >> yeah. >> So, I'll be prepared with an amendment, a friendly amendment. Um, if it needs to happen. Um, I just wanted the board to
be aware that >> in order to keep that discussion moving, we may need to do that, but it shouldn't affect things either way legally. Yeah, >> if people are good with that. Okay. >> All right. That's all I had for the
zoning updates. Um, next meeting date is September 24th and then the 8th. We don't have any meeting minutes. Anyone have any other topics? If not, I will take a motion. >> So moved. >> Motion by Mike. All in favor?
>> Good night, everyone. Thank you.