is over um on video and should should the video um portion go down or the zoom portion go down rather that we will make every effort to restore it but if we're unable to the meeting will continue to
proceed live um first up we have um on the agenda public input which should be limited to statements from the public pertaining to issues that are under our purview um but which are not currently the subject of a pending public hearing before the board um is there anyone
who'd like to speak during the public input session is it have to do with u uh the Kake Corner that's on the agenda so that's not relevant to this part of the discussion
okay um nothing on Zoom Evan I assume no okay next up we have an administrative review of one Woodbine Street recommendation for approval of a public way
hey good evening Paul Cohen Town manager um town meeting next month we have a street acceptance for a portion of Woodbine Street which is shown on the your screen there the what we call the extension of Woodbine Street just to orient people if if to the far right of
that would be the is the low line and obviously the Market Basket Plaza to give you an idea of of sort of what what area we are off of you know the chood street vicinity this is very similar to what we experienced when we did Parkers Road for acceptance like you know what
what's going on so so basically same thing happened Town's out there doing work drainage and so forth and as dpw's doing their plans and everything else this section of wood bind street is not legally accepted by the town so the town's is initiating the effort to have
it formally accepted um basically one it adds to our chapter 90 inventory which then provides funding back from the state because that's based upon your your amount of road miles um so again the select board on Monday evening voted their intent to lay out Woodbine Street
it's now before you for a recommendation uh upon that the select board will do a formal layout and then town meeting will be asked to accept it there obviously are no concerns from the neighborhood obviously the neighbors are pleased that the town's out there doing drainage work uh to improve the drainage
in that area of town so you have the the plan and the uh legal description and the board may remember the board was actively involved in dulgarian Terrace in Woodbine Street several years ago which um your decision
actually contemplated this action which is the final action of the you know that this whole planning board involvement in this project is delarian and the other end of Woodbine all public accepted okay um for
the record Anita tanini and Mike Walsh have joined us um so am I to understand that am I correct that this portion that's going to be laid out and accepted has been being maintained plowed and maintained
and everything for for years a long time so it's just like a technicality yeah and we if you recall and like within the last decade we've come across a number of these roads that we're not formally and this and what's happening is like we saw with um Parkers is the state's being
more stringent now is that when you want to do this they want they want the current plan and so forth and so yes the short answer your question is yes and just for clarify for tonight um what action does the planning board makes a recommendation on whether or not to support the uh the the article the
layout of yeah the layout of uh Woodbine Street which would then go to the art town meeting okay okay um anyone want to have any thoughts they want to discuss perfectly good sense to me on the matter anyone
okay take a motion move that we uh approve acceptance of the portion of Woodbine Street as a public way as a public way yes um I'll second that motion by Mike risbeck
second by John and um we'll take a vote i i i i i i and I'm an I so unanimous okay next up we have further revisions to the chumford leing bylaw
pres hopefully Kelly's on the zoom to look at that right here in the room sorry no I so as you may recall we had a previous conversation and vote on the lighting by
law and Kelly went back and took our commentary or some members of the board's commentary to heart and did some reworking indeed and I also spoke to Paul Coen uh about this and so um just
to recap this is um to update an existing bylaw that's been on the books for a quarter of a century that bylaw has some pretty basic tenants about controlling outdoor lighting essentially above a certain brightness every light
should be pointed down um that was about the extent of it and there were some exemptions for emergency vehicle emergency lighting and such um since then the Advent of LEDs has made lighting uh a lot brighter and a lot
more obvious and frankly there hasn't been much compliance with the existing bylaw that we have over these many years so I'm um if you want to go to the next one I'm proposing a uh we are proposing
a new bylaw that is um a little bit more fleshed out in terms of the specifics of what is and isn't allowed I I'm I've been proposing a general bylaw versus an existing one such that uh existing
non-conforming uh lighting fixtures would become um uh covered under that they would there would not be grandfathered any longer there would be a 10-year Sunset Clause to bring everything into compliance so it isn't like it would be overnight um it would in addition by
being a general bylaw it would allow us to engage and cover both Municipal lighting and utility lighting both of which are important in terms of the lighting footprint if you will that we have in town and it introduces the idea of having a lighting standards officer
who could be in the building commissioner's office or could be somebody hired on the outside on a case-by casee basis next one please so what I've done since then is make some the the concerns were twofold uh from the last meeting largely around the uh
not entirely but largely around the issues of uh the restrictions that are being put on residential lighting uh and and uh and how that can be seen as complicated to the homeowner and
secondly the enforcement mechanism and how the Building Commissioner is not normally out at night uh and so if there were a complaint my light is shining my neighbor's light is shining in my yard or the mall's light is shining in my
yard how to get the compliance done what I found out from Paul is that uh that's basically what's going on with the current the existing bylaw when somebody comes in with a complaint The Building Commissioner does not go out at night the first line of defense is usually
through the police department a nuisance call they go out and check it out try to make um an accommodation and uh I I'm not aware of too many instances where the Building Commissioner has actually been called in there have been a couple of cases that I have in 25 years
honestly I'm not the lighting police I don't intend to become the lighting police uh probably on one hand I can count the number of times that I've suggested to the Building Commissioner that something should be looked at and corrected and so what I thought I'd do uh this time is with all so I went back
and made uh a number of changes to the residential side of this to remove some restrictions where possible it turns out that there is a vehicle that the planning board has uh and has used in previous bylaws where
you don't actually make a a requirement but to express a preference the town prefers blank so it sort of indicates and telegraphs what the preferred standard should be without actually making it a requirement so this uh sets
up this is the um the residential side the part that had the most changes um the the trigger that that is what's covered is the same as the existing bylaw if you have an individual light uh think TCH light
uh that exceeds 1,000 lumens or if you have a um a multiple light fixture think security light that exceeds 2,000 lumens those were and would be both covered and required to be fully shielded fully shielded in this sense means pointing
straight down M um doesn't especially with LEDs They Don't Really require shields in order to affect that because they are panels of lights and when you point them down all the light goes now uh I had previously indicated some
standards for the total amount of light that could be on the residential property and also the color temperature those have been removed as such but in in place I put in town preferences uh for the total lumens and the and the color
temperature um in the past there was no particular standards for what we might collectively call accent lighting landscape lighting facade lighting uh the newer string lights um and uh although we don't have a big problem
with that in town now there are plenty of towns that do have problems with this and this is kind of anticipating that there might be a problem in the future even though we might not have one now and so uh those those are in there there's there are are Lumin limits and this is this is for all kinds of
lighting not just the uh residential and also a curfew so it suggests that if you want to light up the side of your building or have string lights that's okay but let's have them off between midnight and 6: a.m. this is this period by the way 12 to6 is consistent with
Illuminating engineering Society guidelines for this particular type of lighting and then finally for the business side so again that's where the most of the changes occurred just to recap the business Commercial this is this is a broad I couldn't fit it all in
one line it's commercial it's multif family housing uh Apartments I think apartmentss mun properties and this would occur to the utilities as well again the the standards for what needs to be shielding is unchanged from the previous bylaw but now we have what um
uh would be higher standards for the maximum uh output of a light in a commercial setting uh there as you might imagine LEDs have made it possible to throw incredible amounts of light on on
the ground in terms of lumens I can go down to Home Depot and buy a commercial area light with 5 to 10,000 lumens of output for about 150 bucks and I don't need to be a commercial person in order I could
install that in my backyard if I wanted to so uh Evan and I talked about this a little bit this this 20 foot cap is like what you might reasonably put on a two-story building and although uh not every place
in town every commercial s uh situation in town is with under 20 ft think tall light poles in a parking lot if you were to have light poles or something above 20 ft then at that point you have to have a lighting plan for those um uh according to IES
specifications the commercial multif family uh Municipal side would still have the 2700 Kelvin um color temperature limit which would keep the lighting warm and I in frankly what this means and I've again I've had multiple
discussions with the C Business Association uh if you have lighting now that is otherwise conforming but it's four or even 5,000 Kelvin not uncommon in town then over the next 10 years uh you would be expected to replace that with something with a warmer color
temperature and because of the lifetime of LEDs and because a lot of businesses were early adopters of LEDs because of the efficiency involved uh you might reasonably expect that within 10 years those will need to be replaced anyway again the standards for accent
lighting again not a big problem in town but um uh you know CH Street has a reputation as a Party City so I'm not surprised that we would have a lot of uh ancillary light certainly we have facade lighting think in the historic district some of the buildings there have lighting uh that are uh you know
Illuminating the Steeples or whatever and those are on all night as it stands right now this would basically ask the may be off from Midnight to 6 and then um something that was sort of inherent in the old the existing bylaw
but we've specified in the new one and this is our sort of first line of defense is what is a nuisance um in talking to Paul you know the the somebody would be called out to adjudicate a situation if it Rose to the
level of being a nuisance and that nuisance was undefined in the in the previous bylaw in this one it would be defined both in terms of um uh whether it's on all night and also the we it it uh con whether a certain
amount of light goes over the property line uh this was kind of discussed last time in terms of the enforcement how complicated it might be to determine that I brought with me tonight a professional grade lighting meter in any of your hands you could go outside
there's only one button on this no dials no whistles in in less than a minute you can determine whether any property is in violation or not that's how easy it is for anyone to do so uh I would imagine for example uh a first line of defense
might be that um the uh police are called out on a nuisance call they see that there might be a problem they call the Building Commissioner Building Commissioner goes out makes a quick determination and that's all you would need in order to determine whether there's compliance or not
so that's sort of the end of it that those are the sort of changes and scope that I made I spoke to those obviously um I was less I I I I was how do I want to put this I was determined to have all
of the planning board members support this and so that's why I've gone back to the drawing board and tried to rework this to a peas and and accommodate some of the concerns that were expressed and also with those Town manager that's about it anyone have any questions for
Kelly I got one question for Kelly Kelly thank you for reaching out to me regarding that and I hope you you did get my response you did address all of them except why my question is on the residential the average uh color
temperature average residence is 2700 to 4,000 why are you picking the low and it's the warm light I understand that but you're not giving the residents an option and that that's where I was going to die on the hill last last week on uh
the last meeting and you addressed the other items but I think you got to give some range to can you I'm sorry can I thought I removed that that's certainly indicated in the preference you're still sitting at 2700 as a preference as a preference and up to 3,000 that's a
preference I'm not up to 3,000 right but I'm not I'm not requiring that okay so you're not requiring right why why so low no no I understand why you want it low and you don't want the blue I understand that okay I just was if it's a preference that's fine I didn't see the preference part of that in that
section this it's up on the screen is it right in the where is it 4.4 yeah okay Town's preference that's fine good yeah I'm good anyone else have a question so I
raised a few uh questions to Kelly um and I noticed Evan that you also sent it to Town Council thank you um it's in your packet hard so I've never been a fan of the preference in bylaws because it's
essentially not really enforceable um and kind people don't read the bylaws unless they're really looking for enforcement um so I think that's problematic to have in there but I'm not completely opposed to
it um I know Town council's opinion is a little mixed as well uh given his his input um but the biggest concern I have is how we're treating single family different from multif family and the
reason why I've got concerns about that is because of the new Adu laws um and this was mentioned also by Town Council that if we're treating adus differently for multifamilies than
single families it could be challengeable and so my concern is that if we're not enforcing this for single families we cannot enforce them for adus in general but if the adus on a multif
family and it's got some lighting that is out of compliance but the multif family has to comply that's going to create a big problem for enforcement right and and in trying to work the wording for this I
guess my question is what does the planning board consider multifam to mean my intent was to capture apartment complexes condo complexes really not just a three family Triple Decker I
don't know do we even have those here in town um but rather commercial scale dwellings um and so in though if you accept that and that's maybe that's a point for
discussion that's what I was aiming for by using the word multifam dwelling so our definition I believe is five units three or more three more uning okay so so then I I would suggest if you
have a multif family dwelling on a property is that the kind of property that is likely to add what would be construed as an Adu and is that not simply an expansion of the scale of the
multif family dwelling so that's something I don't think we know yet and that's part of my concern is that if they decide that it if it meets the definition of an Adu if whether it's D attached or well
my concern is primarily for the attached Adu we wouldn't be able to in necessarily I don't think enforce this lighting standard on the Adu right but if it's attached to a multif family the lighting is going to get
really confusing yeah I I agree and I I do think uh did not the State issue its Adu guidelines just like within the last week I mean I really I guess it it kind of causes me to scratch my head to imagine an apartment
complex adding on and then calling that an Adu is that even legally possible I don't know the answer I'm it's I think it is based on our discussions and the Adu discussions I don't know if it would happen I don't
know when it would happen and I don't know under what conditions they're all it's all new to us too but it's the Adu laws now are something I'm starting to think about as we're looking at our bylaws about how will any changes that we make in our
bylaws impact the Adu law and how will the Adu law impact these changes so I don't know it's just something to think about I mean would there be a way to have the Adu lighting
um be guid be governed by the lighting parameters for multi family if it was attached to a multif family and be guided by the lighting parameters for a single family or a two family if it was attached I mean I feel like if we get
bogged too much down in this that we're making the perfect be the enemy of the good if we want to have a lighting pan a lighting policy we can always come back and revise it if we find that there's little on the ends of things areas where there's a problem but I think to not do it because there might be a problem we
can't not saying not doing it I'm saying my my resolution to that would be to go back to the way it was before when we're treating all properties multif family single family the same and that that would be my concern
the other option is to in this bylaw uh treat an Adu just as you do for single and two family it's basically but if you've got a walkway between a detached Adu and a multif family where does that sit it just you wouldn't it wouldn't be
um applicable because it's an Adu so the bylaw could say for purposes of this all adus are treat are treated as a as a single family so any property with an Adu on it would be exempt if you're if you're if you're concerned about about the the legal
challenge I think it around this table as we're discussing the notion that adus are going to proliferate existing multif families seems more of a legal exercise for the association
that may not be very viable um but that's assuming it's a condo if it's a rental building yep yeah but many of those have zoning permits with required open space requirements parking requirements
setbacks setback requirements which are not necessarily applicable in aect set understood so my point is if your if your primary concern is a legal challenge due to the Adu law then just bylaw simple solution would just be Exempted like you're doing with
single family yeah the other thing too is that um you know I'm working on the assumption that a multif family property has already maximized the number of units that it can have on that uh but I
also take some um uh some guidance from Something Mike said early on in this which is is this doesn't need to be on the books for 25 years unchanged we can come back in 5 years for example coming back in 5 years halfway through the sunset period would
be a reasonable thing to do to see how well that's happening that might be the kind of time to make course Corrections for things like that you'll have a much better uh track record or or or history with adus by that time than you do now
which is zero right yeah not not to diminish your point which I think is is is a reasonable one to discuss but I you know I'm I'm just it's a it's kind of a hypothetical that in my naive sense is
uh remote anyone else not a question but just a comment Kelly and I spoke and I just wanted to say thank you for addressing the um you know making the changes on the you know the single and two family
residences and I have a few I have a few questions as well sure go ahead the so well we were just talking about the preference that was a restriction on lumens and so we are not provide in this bylaw doesn't restrict single family
lumens is that correct that's correct okay and so but the the trespass uh is something that will be enforced right that that would come under that's the sort of fallback position right for one neighbor against another um that nuisance has a
specificity in terms of how strong the light can be at the property line which this little puppy would measure right so uh and I I'll get to that just a second so in the definitions the light trespass currently it reads any light emitted by a Lumin a that shines beyond the
property on which the Lumin a is is installed and increases the illuminance as measured at the lot line and foot candles so my question was increases from what it's a it's a relative statement but it's not tied to any standard it in the in the standard which
is under the nuisance standard which I'll get you in a second it's 4.3.1 yeah okay so so what I mean what I was thinking that you would want to tie the definition instead of saying that it's an increase but that it's basically exceeding the requirement excessive or
or just that the T it's a trespass when it exceeds the requirement just like a a trespass of properties when you cross the lot line right and that that so I wondered if you wanted to because right now I think the the increas is you know
well anybody could say well now it's more and so so maybe you would you would say um instead of saying increases the illuminance you might say exceeds the illuminance requirement yes that's exact that's what I'm looking for yeah I think you I could certainly take that as a
friendly Amendment if that's like offer that as a friendly Amendment yeah uh Evan how do we would we just make that change you're going to make the changes and um you're going to be officially presenting them at fincom tomorrow night okay and then that the version that
fincom ultimately votes on is what should go in their well they have this version but I can mention that that change has been made thank you and then also in 452 the landscape lighting where it says to
point it towards the feature and I I didn't know whether it would make any sense to add any sort of language about to avoid pointing it towards public ways or nearby structures or whatever in other words trying to
avoid the situation where the feature it's being lit it's being lit from on the other side of the feature and your sidewalk or whatever is on the other side so that lighting the feature but it's lighting you at the same time landscape lighting is kind of squishy territory um and I I would submit to you
that in that situation then the nuisance okay property foot candle limit would capture that yeah I didn't I didn't know if some language to anybody reading the BW would understand that the intent was I mean I think you can sort of gather what the intent is but
I didn't know of some additional language so that people understand it's not just that we're wanting you to point it at the feature we're also wanting you to point it such a way that's not pointed at other people but it give or take I I I don't you know whether you think that's something that can be added
there or not that was my thought what you said is that it's the requirement still captures any sort of problem associated with that one of the things too uh Joel is that uh landscape lighting is not necessarily strong
doesn't have to be strong it can be subtle it can be Ambiance right right and so in that case having lighting that's pointed directly at the street if you're trying to illuminate a a fountain or something like that uh might not
exceed the these yeah I'm more thinking of those little flood lights that people like to light up their trees with and right yeah all right but you agree that the nuisance yeah it's yeah the yeah the requirement is there
so somebody this is more just a suggestion for somebody who's reading this to go okay I understand that you want me to point it at a feature you don't want me to point at other people but you sort of get that idea from the general bylaw anyway so I don't think that's necessary
um and then also one question I had was so does this essentially mean that we're Banning like flashing stop signs stop you know the kind of stop signs where they're blinking on the outside right um
usually 24 hours a day um interesting you should bring that up because I think the town installed one on some on the corner of somebody's property and he called me and said can you do anything about this flashing stop sign I mean that's on the public right away I would imagine and that's that's also not a
light right it's it's um it's also safety also safety right it's for safety I mean there there in the sign bylaw in the sign bylaw which is completely now completely by the way in the original bylaw uh there's all kinds
of uh standards for for for signs and that's now in its own separate sign bylaw um that that kind of uh flashing um is is I believe not prohibited uh not
allowed under the sign by law for for non you know for non-safety situations for like somebody just wants to have lights blinking in their yard uh or on their business um I'm trying I I know that was in here someplace and I'm trying to well
in in 1085 in prohibitions you have uh what's the section um 108 D5 the use of search light sky beams are any outdoor Lumin are that dynamically varies its output byly fading flashing blinking or rotating is prohibited except as
required by public safety personnel in temporary situations okay and so that's what made me think of the flashing stop signs because but it does say any outdoor it says any use of search light sky beams or any outdoor luminer that dynamically varies its output it doesn't
say it has to be strong ites I think that would cover it but the sign's not a light to begin with well a flashing well it's it got flashing lights on it it's a sign with some flashing lights it's not flashing lights I defer to Mr
Blan that's how I would look at it I mean this this bylaw when it comes to public safety U regulatory signs within a roadway yeah it's it's not going to be applied okay yeah okay that's all I was just looking for any potential conflict but I appreciate your careful um
examination of these details one uh one other thing was about the uh I have two more things one is uh I noticed that the appeal I mean we I I know that we discussed this that the appeal was to the planning board and it just struck me as okay well in town
actually all sort of zoning appeals go to the zba so I was just wondering like and actually this more a question for Evan is is what are your thoughts about the fact that now we have an exception to that and actually it's the planning board that takes and and and appeal as
as opposed so first of all the local appeals is an is an option it's not a requirement uh my conversations with Council uh thought it was a good idea uh to provide a local appeals route right um and then I thought I thought the
planning board was most appropriate because planning board is currently doing lighting review there's Provisions within this General bylaw that reference the planning board to Grant relief um so I just I thought it made the most sense uh to give it keep it
keep it with the planning board yeah all right that makes sense um the um so the the last has to do with enforcement and violation and [Music] the the clock of 14 days that starts
with a violation so what exactly triggers that in other words is it when there's a call a nuisance call like you mentioned the police go out I didn't know that uh but then if the zoning enforcement officer goes out uh he takes
a measurement he determines that it's in violation I would submit it's the latter that that up until that point he submits it well I'm sorry so that he then uh has to notify presumably the uh the person who who has
the light um so when does the clock start on the 14 days out of in that scenario when the when it's when the notice is given presumably I mean I would presume that would be it so they rate a lighting ticket or something right yeah and that would be I you know
um I think it's interesting I'm having this same I I've written a b I've written a law a bill for the state legislature about outdoor lighting and one of the things that um this actually call falls under Senator Barrett and he bristled at
the notion that the that the bill has too many specifics and that a lot of these kinds of details ought to be left to the Department of Public Utilities for promulgation and I since it's undef find
here okay then I would suggest that maybe it would be the building commissioner's office to make that definition and and that determination right or that we have some regulations associated with it I think that would make sense procedurally under zoning
it's from the um the receipt of the violation notice okay okay so I imagine the um lighting officer will use a very similar standard that's currently um done within the building department for
regular enforcement okay so right now this um bylaw takes effect the moment the it's adopted I mean that that's what's written in it right so my question is what uh preparation is
needed for us to essentially and us what I really mean is the zoning enforcement officer to be ready to basically respond to these kinds of uh potential nuisance calls and um so one question was training you
know does he require some degree of training does he require some degree of equipment so you have a a meter there I mean he'll need the meter a meter he'll need to know how to use it and presumably he'll need some sort of procedure to follow uh you know this is
what I'm looking for this is uh whatever this is what results in a violation and so forth and my guess is that my question to you is uh are there other communities that have implemented this already and can you say what amount of
time is needed in order to bring the zoning officer up to speed or whoever it is that's implementing the enforcement there are not and I don't know okay then that's that's sufficient uh because I I I'm getting to my point is I assume that our current ex zoning
enforcement officer is not currently trained or has a procedure in place or has has equipment to conduct this not not to fully um comply so what I was going to suggest is that we have the bills effective date be something
later potentially some number of months so that once the bill is adopted that gives us time for the zoning enforcement officer to get the equipment he needs to get the training he needs and to develop the procedures that he needs in order to enforce
it I so go ahead I kind of object I mean I feel like when the building inspector goes out to decide if someone's setbacks are appropriate we don't tell them what tool to use and what training to measure
the setback I mean I feel like we're in the weeds but this is but they still have to like but he has that like he has what he needs he's going to need to buy what he needs I'm not saying that we need to specify in this bill what that is what I'm saying is that that's a
reality of How It's going to be imp seems pretty basic so maybe we could do it it's basic to Kelly it's not necessarily basic to rocket science the bylaw the bylaw will need to go to the AG for a 90day review okay well that would be perfect so we'll have
that opportunity to get as as was discussed it can be affected immediately but if you're looking for you know some time frame upon receipt the AG has 90 days to review and issue a decision right that's all I'm all I'm saying
suggesting is that we make its effective date after its adoption date to get we could do that 30 days later or once it's approved by the AG yeah the AG usually takes his time
if I I I'm sensitive to what you're suggesting but um it's really if you think about what the ascertainment and enforcement is that exists now
it's totally vague and totally unenforceable what I'm adding is a is a layer of of an actual requirement that's easily measured and if the Building Commissioner doesn't feel that he or she can make
that measurement then the Building Commissioner is empowered to find a third party to do that that could be me with my lighting meter out or in the original concept the first discussion that Evan and I had about this this notion of a lighting enforcement officer
this lighting professional that would be on call to the town the cost of which would be borne by the you know petitioner or the whoever brings app plan um might be the kind of person who would be a shared resource
for multiple communities who want to adopt this and I I suspect that such people exist uh uh tree officers or I'm not sure what other veterans officers I know you've had that you share with other towns and so one of the things I
was able to determine is there are at least I haven't done an exhaustive search but I know of at least two certified lighting professionals who would be willing to make these ascertainments on behalf of the Town whether they would do that for free or per Bono or charge the petitioner
whatever but it's not necessarily if if the Building Commissioner were in a position where he or she throws you know their hands up and say I I don't know how to do this there is a way to get the measurement and get the ascertainment done I don't I really don't think it
requires any train any training other than to to buy one of these and have them available to the town wher whoever might be doing it it really is a fairly simple measurement it's a direct readout in foot candles there's a specification that's foot candles it would take a
minute to determine whether there's compliance or not I don't mean to minimize your concern but it it really is pretty straightforward the training is pretty minimal yeah and again I mean I don't know if you're an engineer I mean I am but I mean it's one thing to
assume that something that's easy to you it's another thing to assume it's easy to somebody else particularly when that person has a great deal of other things to do but in any case I think we understand I think we all know where we are so I I mean I'm a scientist I I deal with orders of magnitude not you decimal
points but but I mean I just just consider the many many any very detailed specifications for building Cod and such that the Building Commissioner has to deal with this is pretty minor compared to those okay
yeah anything else Joel Chris I just have one more thing um under the demonstration of compliance you specify compliance for multif family and Commercial and Industrial but not single family we do still have some regulations
that apply to single family in here so would it make sense to have a section of demonstration of compliance specifically for single family I would say that we had that and that was one of the things
that worried people okay and we still have the ultimate fall back is the nuisance provision which would trigger an ascertain at least in terms of at the property line it wouldn't ask for an ascertainment of color temperature or
whether you've exceeded your Lumen limit or anything like that those were the kinds of things that I was hearing uh would be uh crossing the line or or making the making the meeting the
standards of the bylaw a little bit too honorous and too complicated for the typical resident so that's why they're gone but my concern though is that there other things like outdoor accent lighting that still do apply to single family dwellings yes that would not be
triggered by the nuisance because okay that was different the meeting okay um right I mean I I was reluctant to remove all the guard rails
for residential yeah and um I think the the accent lighting requirements are pretty reasonable as as they remain there's certainly a compliance standard that goes with that but on the other
hand it would be very easy to ascertain by a passing patrol car that a bunch of of string lights were left on at 3: in the morning that shouldn't be okay I I don't I I apologize I'm not trying to minimize I know I just I just want to make sure
that there's some mechanism for what people should be doing if there is a a complaint for single family homes you know and I I I will use these these string lights again this is not something that we have much of an issue with here in this town but I can tell you that there are other towns and
places that they are uh more rampant and that you know midnight to six curfew is a I think most people at town meeting will find this to be a perfectly reasonable thing to ask a neighbor to
turn them off at midnight and it's easily confirmed one way or the other okay thank you so the pref that's got a question the preference is for lumens and temperature can you only for
single only for single and two 44.1 but then so do do these then outdoor accent light that's applicable this is applicable facade lighting is applicable right landscape lighting is applicable string string lights are
applicable it's not preference those are bylaws right they're applicable but there's no standard for compliance there's no there's no the B does not codify a requirement to for the lighting officer to prove compliance
upon installation so it's it's it's the lowest threshold you can possibly have in a town regulation the currently the current zoning bylaw requires compliance you submit a permit to install
lighting the new bot does away with that for single and two family basically says you can go to Home Depot Lowe's you can buy whatever you want you can install it and the only time government gets involved is if we receive a complaint once we receive a
complaint then town hall is obligated to go out and resolve the complaint but compliance upon installation is not required for single and two family nor is it required any longer for sale of the property which was
originally in the bof for single in so it's it's essentially it's good until it's not means it's effectively truthless unless it's unless it's a a a significant
complaint okay so it's actually reducing the current threshold for single family and two family um I had a couple things um first of all I I like the idea of the Town preference I know others have an issue with it but
I feel like it confers some guidance without any regulation necessarily and I think that's um kind of moving gently in a direction which is kind of what I thought we were looking for for at the beginning um and you know it would be a
switch that would be easy to flip 5 years from now if you if you wanted to go in that direction one way or the other I also like the um revisiting the idea of revisiting in five years so I don't know how we could put that on a schedule somehow but maybe
you can hold us to that um and I also like the midnight to 6:00 a.m. um specificity um as as well as the 20 ft um specificity and I and I the whole time
have have thought that the idea of having 10 years to comply to come into compliance even for those for whom it's a requirement is very um generous and again guiding them gently in a Direction
so I just want to thank you for being receptive to our thoughts and for taking this on and doing all the hard work and um thank you you're welcome thank you um should we take another vote
yeah anyone want to make a motion I would move that we uh approve the uh make a recommendation that we recommend this uh revised yeah
as revised and with the friend am now do we also want to say something about U whether we want to be I mean there's supporting it and there's serving as backers for it if you will sponsors we could be
co-sponsors I think I would be glad to be co-sponsors that's what's in the warrant now right and I'm happy with that okay so then I will include that in the motion okay do we have a second second okay all in favor I I I'm
still on no okay let the record show that it's all in favor minus Anita who is still a n um we don't have anyone on no Zoom so we
don't need zooms down at this point one of those on a regular basis never happened in a blenny board [Laughter] meeting but you seem to know right just what to do I was impressed with the response I didn't know anything else to
do asked Chris for help but I apologize for the record I'm Kelly Bey from 117 Park Road so thank you again for your support Kelly all right next up we have Kate's Corner discussion
about the neighborhood and potential zoning um changes and we have a um I don't know if everyone had a chance to review the sorry I sent it to you guys late totally forgot about it presentation yeah I mean I think you did
a good job I don't know if people had a chance you want to give it to us real quick yeah do you got do you want I'm bringing it up right now uh oh different computer they've moved on I presume I think that's why the select
board has you come into the you have to get waved in by the waiting room it may have two or three people working on it though yeah behind the scenes at least one or two people you mean on um whatever called Zoom ad so to
speak yeah what is that called huh what was that called that they do the waiting room waiting room oh no no no Zoom bombing zoom zoom bombing yeah yeah all right so um just quickly to kind of so Mike and I met over the
weekend um Joel provided some um feedback um via email to us um ahead of us meeting so what I'd like to do for today is kind of finalize
um kind of go through um the zoning and kind of finalize what we think should go into this particular Zone we can do that then discuss um if we can get be nice if we can also get U applicability whether this is applicable
and seid or not done today then I thought in our next um meeting because it's not just what we want there but then you got to look at the dimensional requirements on there and that's a little bit more I think we more time um and then you know
obviously the next steps is do we want to have to call a special town meeting or we're going to do this for fall town meeting and then come up with a war article to present um and then if we want future meetings to discuss other areas this may kind of work for all
right so um our shortterm goal was obviously to address Kate's Corner um we started that back in January then we um heard about ly um Martin's
expansion um requirements which we kind of opened up a can of worms had we known about it maybe we wouldn't have even brought this up back in January to begin with that we were looking at this we probably would have looked at a different area um so our short-term goals are you know
luy Martin's expansion address the um zoning Conflict for Kate's corner overall we obviously want to preserve the neighborhood character our goal in this is to whatever we do it needs to preserve that character in that area um
and minimize negative impacts to the surrounding properties and infrastructure obviously long-term goals is to reduce um additional current zoning conflicts in Chumps maybe provide transitional Zone from RB to IIA which will help preserve neighborhood
character um and then can identify any other applicable areas in town so just to take a step back um you know we the items we kind of thought about on this was first you know do we just change the parcel 116 461 D3 and
116 461 4631 to IIA that was brought up we decided back in February this wasn't the desired approach so went back this is when we um when the planning board kind of tasked me and Mike and Joel to kind of go back kind of figure out a
different way of doing this so one of those ways was do we modify one of the existing zones CB CA or IIA like do we just take CB and change that like is there something in CB that we don't like one of the properties is
already CB and then do we rezone the rest of it CB so we did talk about that we looked at that the problem with doing something like that for example in CB I think motor vehicle repair is allowed
currently but we only have but you we could say okay we don't want that we can just change that put a no for that but then what that does it cause causes a ripple effect in all the other areas we have CB because they have currently motor vehicle repair shops there right so and it's probably applicable for them
so we kind of looked around is there is there current zoning that all we have to do is change something that would work after we kind of vetted that out you know we kind of came to the conclusion that there really wasn't anything we really needed to come up with a new
zoning which is what we did um we did create a new zoning we actually took CB and kind of modified we saw found that that had the most desirable items versus IIA believe it or not and modify that to that would work so that's if you
want to go to the next slide um yeah we can go one more um so that's what we did with and this is where you see the um what I did is I took our What's um out in the zoning dienal
plans and I put into Excel hid all the other zonings and kind of just highlighted the rbca CB and IIA which is in Kate's Corner currently mine is the public um and then Mike and I just kind of went down yeah one by one and the
items that are highlighted in yellow are the ones that we want to kind of talk about um we can talk about every single one if you want but I think it's probably best use of our time just to kind of um because you know Mike and I were
like you know boarding houses owner occupied um you know it's currently um a yes in CA in CB a no and IIA it's um board of appeals for RB do you want this to be a planning
board or board of appeals do we want to do you want this to be a no like these are kind of yeah things I'd like to get a I like us to talk about or think about
um then accessory delling units are zoning currently all has no I assume those should all be um that's why that's highlighted what's that code right below that first one you were talking about it's the boarding house right what's
it's that one below it is nonoccupied right nonoccupied occupied and you have to go to what board um board ofs okay if you're in residential um then the other one is exempt uses
we had a yes we weren't really sure what this meant actually K this is a um under the state zoning act there is a specific uh State exemption for licens Family dayc carees Family Daycare is a daycare
that is operated within a um typically within a single family but it's capped at um or fewer children so it's not a typical commercial setting over a residential setting but if they have more than
one employee I think the numbers can be expanded uh anyway do doesn't come up very often that's a herring sorry so do we want to make that so it's something that not that
does not come up and I'm just GNA I'm on my spreadsheet here so I just want to update it live so can we go back to the intended use of this zone so if we're looking at potentially using this for almost a buffer between industrial
and residential um and if we're looking at potentially other another use case which is Kate's corner where it's not NE necessarily a buffer between industrial um and residential looking ahead at what
you guys are proposing it's more of a modified um area surrounded by uh residential then I would propose the boarding house and even the dayc carees would probably not be
appropriate because this would be as potentially a zone right next to Industrial and so if we have if we're not wanting residential right next to Industrial why would we want boarding houses Senior
Living let me make an observation there we have a lot of variety in what you will see and Kate's corner is a wonderful example of a space where I suppose in theory that could be a Contractor Yard over there but it's not
and we all know it won't be uh we need some degree of flexibility in here one way to achieve that flexibility is by making a fair number
of these options be by special permit or zba potentially but by uh creating a situation which they're going to be looked at in some detail and they're not necessarily of right um that's another way to view it
and I think for the flexibility that you need at the edge at the places where zones meet that might be a good idea especially if we're going to try and extrapolate it to other areas yeah yeah I mean what you're going to
see in cage corner is going to be very different what you're going to see in other no I know and I'm looking at other areas where we might have this thinking ahead potentially River Neck and uh Turnpike Turnpike yep Turnpike came up weed that the if this is that buffer
between IIA and residential I'm not sure I'd be comfortable putting a senior living facility which is technically a residential set it's a residential use yeah yeah if we're not willing to put single family multif family two family
in there then why would we put Senior Living and those types of residential uses in there well I mean partly because they tend to be a larger they own boundaries look at the current IA zoning so if we're talking about the one
the licensed family daycare facility Etc planning board special permit in IIA yeah M so I mean I don't are you concerned about the the fact that it's near industrial that it's like a not appropriate use for industrial or you
thinking it's not appropriate use for residential I'm thinking it if we're saying no to multif family then then we're saying already that this is not appropriate for residential but I think but I think like a like a a daycare I think Senor living right they're more
like I I think they're different like than a multif family or I don't know I think it's a nice transition right like I would not consider a multif family different from Senior Living seniors are living in
that building and it's multiple residences okay so you want no or yeah I would say no for for boarding house any any of these that have a residential component I would say no to because the
potential it would be there putting it next to um industrial and if we're saying no to multif family well but I mean in the case of the licensed Family Daycare it's a special permit by the planning board for
CA CB and for IIA yeah that that one I feel less strongly about okay it's the any of the other residential uses like boarding house Senior Living so you want to so you just want to so go back up EV so because because of the proximity to
so all right so from five basically five um A5 six seven and then D6 so you want 8
a b c and d all yes I mean are we all an agreement here because those would be all living facilities I uh I I I maintain that we
should leave them by permit I don't think they should be by right but yeah in order to adjust to the situation as it appears in a particular area in a particular uh surrounding I think allowing it by permit's reasonable
enough so we had some concerns about the car wash on 110 M right next to a senior facility yeah we talked about imagine that next to a warehouse and imagine that there might
be a Senior Living facility next to an area where there's a warehouse yeah and and then we look at it and we say you know this is not appropriate and we don't Grant the permit but that's assuming the warehouse is there before the senior if the senior
living facilities there a warehouse is coming in we may not be able to deny that because it's by right in IIA no yeah we might not that's my point is that it's fine if the special permit for senior living but what if the senior
living's already there right next to an IA Zone but it's not we9 if it doesn't fit the neighborhood then we anything over 20,000 ft comp so it's a major business complex and we have to write under 195 whatever hasn't worked yet
well it hasn't worked it only hasn't worked when it's well you can't use 270 as a good example right for not working it the major business complex is is it's a very protective bylaw yeah
yeah I just I just the town historically hasn't used it in that in that manner but but for purposes of Edge Edge projects transition zones major business complex actually would serve a a really important role in so then if we're
willing to put assisted living in those facilities we should have multif family in there as well well I mean I'm I'm hopeful that your that your multif family discussion it comes up as part of seid yeah I will say I don't want to jump ahead but the the current strategy with
seid including melty family was based upon a notion that in lie of cherry picking the best of perfect transition use multif family serves that use very very well it just needs to be
designed appropriately which is why the special permit was required um so like I said I'm hopeful that even though Row three has an N that we are going to revisit that as part of seid which then speaks directly to your point
there's different there's different classifications of residential there's light residential and multif family being a heavy residential but if we're if we're redesigning this to be a special Zone we may not need the overlay this is why you handed out the
zoning map uh when you start looking at other areas of town to try to replicate what we're discussing tonight which is really related to Kate's corner I think it becomes a very
different exercise now just jump ahead in in this exercise fast food restaurants with drive-throughs is contemplated as a as a um as a permitted use mhm but I'm not
sure you would introduce that along Turnpike Road right all right so I'm going to hide let's so Kate's Corner in of itself is is unique within conflict areas all right so we have a I'm going to
highlight Section 8 and three and line three yeah leave it as a placeholder okay I've got them highlighted um boarding house owner occupied I put it as an end do we
want to highlight that talk about it well I think it needs to follow the other residential uses yeah they're going to be probably a a block okay they're either going to be all Yes or they're going to be all no we have to decide um can you have a mixture
though can you have a mixture between multi family sure you can I mean the idea is they're all very similar but a boarding house is like a light residential multif family is heavy residential so it depends on the strategy which which isely dependent upon the specific
geographic location but if we're using this as a transition and an intermediate between those two all of those would fit into that category what I'm saying is that someone could someone someone could say or a neighborhood could say A Boarding House proposed as a special
permit is okay in Kate's corner but not multif family while Turnpike Road could say in Li of having an industrial development I'd prefer to have multif family but no one's going to build one boarding house on longterm
Pike so it's it's slightly nuanced just based upon the you know the geographic locations all right we're only on page one we got M Pages here yeah my timeline my my agenda timeline is going on yeah
this is going to take longer um okay so exempt uses I me I thought were doing great me and Mike were agreeing we're Polar Opposites and we could agree yeah right what we doing yeah we we did fine I mean basically we we looked at a bunch of
these and bunch we said yes and a bunch we said no and a bunch we didn't agree it was yes or maybe permit or no or maybe permit yeah and they kind of come up yell Corner both we looked at both we did both yeah we were thinking trying to
think broadly here yep um okay so exempt say I'm still licensed daycare is that a PB then not a yes or no which one um exempt uses daycare PB PB for me I would keep it
consistent with the others okay all right can I not highlight that then I can take that off of the agreement okay so now we're on the next page in institutional can I can we go back to
the accessory dwelling units mhm cuz I'm assuming that would be oh yes across the board why all the way right no it would be dependent on what we do with the other residential uses I think if single family is not permitted then adus are
not permitted okay right or not permitted by right right okay right okay so then it would only apply for so that would stay no okay
okay back to institutional so semetary I said yes because everybody loves having a ceter as a neighbor um they never have loud parties um Municipal garages store storage repair shop this
is where we were now or PB this like the DPW facility it's all Municipal uses garage storage repair shops yeah and so the re my I think I was the no you may have been the PB I might have been a PB but I wasn't the Flaming yes
um so in my thought process is like when I think of storage Municipal garages I think of like a warehouse so if I want this to be the transition I probably don't want the warehouse in there I would want that in the industrial so that's where I was more of a no I think you were PB on that
no yeah I would say no on that one yeah think so too no that's fair enough okay all right just you don't you don't want anything near that Lake anyways just thinking [Music]
about not Pond but I know we're thinking about it more than just that area a helipad accessory to a hospital can I ask you why that was even considered if you said no to a hospital yeah I think we were getting tired cuz I think we were stuck on the helipad yeah
if hospitals know then the helicopter accessory to hospital should be know right I think we need went to separate I mean really what what are the what are the applications in this town that would use a helath it be a a hospital or perhaps a few I mean I could almost see
loed having a helipad but this is specific to this is specific to an accessory to a hospital don't have helipad for any like for IIA do we no we have any in town we only have for Hospital which we don't even have do we even have a hospital in town no no not a
full service hospital I'm surprised there isn't one up off of Technology all right um onto commercial nonexempt agricultural use B was what was B
yeah so V is provided that there neither Hogs nor fur bearing animals so I think this was a question that we were like huh like what are we even talking about here what exactly is nonexempt right no um anything that doesn't meet the state
exemption but I think the simplest path is it's currently not allowed in any commercial zoning District the point being that I think the town wants to encourage commercial uses in commercial zoning districts non-exempt a is allowed in residential zoning
districts Yeah by right in fact yeah so the question is do we want to it in a transition zone and I think PB may be the answer I mean do we really care if
somebody has a you know a stable and has people riding around on horses there thinking about where we might use this Zone it might make sense it might yeah exactly Kate's corner you got that corner right around the corner but this wouldn't be applied on river River Neck
Road why like might be like you've got that huge like if someone I mean tore down okay all right PB I could see places down where there were you could but okay I mean if it's PB we can make that judgment are we still on non-exempt AG
use yeah okay let's do PB what about non-exempt educational use we what about non-exempt Farm Stand we had his yes cuz across the board it had yes all our yeah okay we're leaving that okay fine non-exempt educational use
didn't know what that was what is that Evan um that would be a um could be a private college something that doesn't qualify for the state do um class classification
as an educational use um I mean a pretty benign use yeah I would do a cooking school yeah PB PB or yes I mean someone could open up like a yoga studio a yoga Academy they call it oh I'm in
yoga yeah so I'm like make that yes yes I think let's do yes okay animal clinic or Hospital PB this is an interesting one if you're going to allow the non-exempt EG it could be a complimentary use yeah let's say PB is that what we said
for non-exempt egg PB yeah PB kennel kennel so this PB kennel's a tough one kennel we run in we ran into we've run into problems with the especially on turn next to their house right right corner a kennel I think
there is yes is there a kenel there's a kenel there it's small yeah so where it's on the CAA side of things it's on uh Route 27 yep oh yeah I remember per before the Mobile station yes right before the
Mobile station I would say PB all right PB okay Funeral Home quiet wait what about nursing colesent oh sorry the nursing one I would consider along with the
residential if we're doing yes or no or PB on those we'll put that and that Clump together and we still have to come back to about that Clump that was my um funeral home it's not a bad transitional use I would say that's it's a funny one
because traffic though no it'll tie up your traffic for half an hour three times a week you know it's it's an odd one uh but it's generally you know there's
plenty of decorum and it's usually 3 could be lower impact than many other uses that areed I would say yes I'm sure they can work it out so it's not around school
times so maybe PB cuz I mean you wouldn't want it smack dab between I don't know trying to think where you wouldn't want it well I would say PB because we've got we've
got a PB and IIA M no in the residential and CI and yes the CB so it might be a mining board transition yeah approach to take we said no to motel and
hotel um retail store and servic Airbnb I'm not Airbnb um like a um bed and breakfast we don't currently don't list bed and breakfast maybe we should or something smaller than a hotel
motel yeah well that that's sort of the closest thing I can think of there is kind of like a boarding house it's not the same but it's like a boarding house you live at where is a Ben and breakfast you stay at you visit yeah you visit but you might
visit for 3 weeks or a month boarding houses are often if you wanted to allow scalability then allow by special permit if we add something in here we would have to do for across the whole acoss consider across the board be a definition in the news table across
across the board STI to one problem at a time yeah let's hold on exactly okay okay it took a lot of coffee to come up with us let me tell you yeah um retail stores and services not Elsewhere set for so we said less than
3,000 Square fet was a yes uh more than 3,000 gross um Square F feet was a PB and then more than 5,000 was no and more than 10,000 was no the hell no I don't know I mean what do we have
that 3,000 can I need a I need a reference well the the skips Redevelopment on chuma street is 10 with five tenants so that's including the um the restaurant and the massage please
yeah the bank um 10,000 huh the the the drive-throughs that being contemplated as part of the re the proposed zoning article or 2500 yeah
okay the F the the the 9 C more than 5,000 but less than 10 again if you're talking about transitional areas maybe PB on that yeah yeah you might me that's depending on what is on the industrial side of that
that could be a really handy I think Cas corner is Village but once you go to other parts of town it's not necessarily Village all right let's taste PEB and then no for more than 10 yeah okay Motor Vehicle sales no motor
vehicle repair no motor vehicle repair no Towing no fueling no Evan does parking garage inst structure include parking
lots no has to have more than one story I'm sorry so it has to have more than one story yeah let me read you the definition parking lots are by right a a a parking a parking lot is not a
principal use the parking garage of structure is a structure of any combination of material matal assembled constructed erected or maintained at a fixed location and plac permanently or temporarily in on or above the ground serving as an accessory use to a commercial or industrial establishment
and is primarily used for the parking and storage of vehicles operated by the customers visitors and uh and uh visitors of such of such establishment so it's looking for parking so like right but this is what
we would need for lock heed if they wanted to if we want to reone CB to this we would need to make this they only want a a surface lot is that right so this one this would be applicable wasn't that so A parking structure wouldn't apply cuz it's not
two stories okay but what if they needed like a two-story garage to then this then this this would be applicable as an accessory what part of the conversation we had on this one was well okay they could cover the whole thing with a parking lot but suppose they had a one
story is half the size would that be better or worse than covering the whole thing in pavement well you know and it was I don't think we really got an answer for that which is why like we had either so we have I think what we our
thought was we should allow it either through the planning board but we noticed that it was ba on both side like on IIA and CB so we didn't know whether or not i' make a planning board I think the planning board this should be a planning board thing y um
but I think it gives us that flexibility I think this is a planning board thing but Evan you just mentioned that the structure has to be an accessory use correct we don't allow principal use parking garages no but even when they own all the lots
and doesn't that get like looked at as one property anyways yes yeah so if if if there was any if there was any business that had contiguous Lots or one large lot they would be able to build a
freestanding parking structure okay we the prior board did approve one um when um uh the credit union moved in on Bill rickle Road forgetting the name of the bank out
there to um DCU a ter DCU yeah they about a year after they moved in they came to the board for a parking garage and it was approved did they ever build it no I didn't think they did I don't know they
there never noticed it right um should we what about I mean I don't want to get out of our lane but like should we change the parking garage structure in CB and IIA to planning board not this not this scope
next notes of other ones we might want to yeah that can be somebody else's project yeah um restaurant um we said yes I don't I forget what eight is eight is special permit from planning where shall be required if more than 10,000 square fet
that's what the eight dots but we said yes if more than 10,000 yeah yeah um drive-throughs this is where we said no mhm cuz I don't think in any
transitional area we want to drive through and I was thinking like River Neck I was thinking turn Pik um did you skip over the medical we haven't got oh we oh sorry I was looking at the bank driveth through
um so office is the other one so this is transition do we want office is pretty benign yeah yeah I don't see why it's a no okay but we're going to have to think about
this in the context of dimensional requirements because y yeah office might be good but a six-story office might not so planning board yeah so we're going to have to well I would I would do by uh by right over 20 would be major business
comple anyway still going to trigger site plan yeah okay so here we have this is where we had the question marks for medical I think it's like an office basically in my opinion so I had a question on what is the difference between medical office or Center and medical clinic because this one is
medical office Center and the other one is Medical Clinic Medical Clinic as defined uh refers specifically to a a licensed medical facility the reason that that the town adopted this uh was specifically to regulate methodone
clinics so at the time that was that was a a trend the town wanted to have the ability to um regulate um Clinics of that type if you recall a couple months ago you did approve a medical clinic it wasn't for methodone but it was in the
129 area right okay so we should do PB for medical clinic and yes for medical office M everybody that okay bank or agency the drive-thru okay I would say
yes for the bank and no for the drive-thru so here is the whole the reason why we had that conversation we had conversation the reason I was thinking no was like who who goes to the bank anymore like we're all old they build them like we're all old people like but like
like Chase is building Banks everywhere you ask my kids like you've got venmo kids they don't like I bu we're old right so we grew up we grew up we know what a bank is but you ask my kids we
had coins and bills right like agree like I as far as Theo so you have to go to the bank when you're 16 and don't have a debit card or a bank card so they still do use them I kids go there all the time as far as
uses with impacts it's yeah it's pretty low low threshold that was the only reason why I was like no on the drive the drive through a special apartment planning board the drivethru is associated with the bank correct yes corre I think you got to have it wait without a drivethru a special permit
nowadays without a drive-thru would be by r with a special permit with a with a dve us a special permit look for that you know that extra level you got to give them an option okay I don't think we're going to have a lot of banks coming up yeah I think it's safe
enough I'm just saying indoor commercial entertainment what is that like the so that's like your Romper Room yeah I'm surprised to see this as a no I I would view that as a pretty good transitional traffic generator but well
like altitud big empty buildings if you're trying to find uses for I I think so when I think of this I think of Warehouse e cuz they look like Warehouse on yeah but I think that's more appropriate for time to play or the tiny Mosaic it's under a certain size yeah for a
transition zone maybe put a footnote a new footnote if it's under 10 or under 20 can we do that for the specific one sure like it has to be under a certain size yeah well I would I would want to limit it somehow that way if we were going to have it what's the foot note in
CB is a footnote on the CB one yeah it's eight what did you say that was special permit si, yeah perfect we could we could adopt the same approach as CV more than 10,000 special permit yeah yeah so I do the same thing okay okay fair
enough um good point outdoor um uh commercial recreation I said yes because I think that could be like a lot of greenery like you could have yeah I think it'd be like a nice transition tennis courts perhaps yeah
soccer pick ball soccer yeah pick ball right so I just assumed that would be club or Lodge those are your Elks clubs fraternal yeah those are good transitional us as well I think so too I Community Based
family friendly yeah Riding Academy if you're going to if you're going to you guys already talk faity yeah they have two of them down there aren this is regulating riding acmy specifically differently than other
agricultural types of nemp jues yeah and we just put ba because that's what we had for CB um Wireless Communications facility what is that and why is that that's your cell towers that a cell to is that a cell
tower yeah no just make a board of appeals huh it's of appeal yeah ba well they're they're they're essentially Allowed by right now under federal law yeah that's the point I was I made over coffee set
on at least Federal preemption so ba8 for anywhere ba for now okay um fars carnivals we said ba um body art
establishment like I the a small little shop like someone like a small little shop right and they want to do that I have no problem with it yeah I just don't see these being big I'm a yes but you guys want to Yes it falls under read this so we saying yes
or PB I'm a yes I'm a yes okay that's I just don't know of any like large scale chain 10,000 foot body art establishment that like is going to come in anywhere
no it's the size of a barber shop planning Bo Health Club PB PB yeah do we did we uh have a size limit on that one no but you can is there a way to limit the size not like
you can do that same one do want yes with Y v11 VI I I we've used 10,000 in a couple of places here yep yeah it's not an unreasonable I me that's a pretty big Health Club Health Club yeah massage
services so like to me like every massage service I know is a spa yeah yeah like to me this is a yes but since we have ba across the board I was like ba like I think it's silly for a spa like if you want to open up a spa a
spa back story to why it why it's even in there why it's a special permit is there yeah it's a little updated but yeah you might just leave it a ba like the others and then change it down the road if we ever want to but you know well I think just because it says
massage too like it's like um what is that a tanning salon um no family sorry Family Daycare home not exempt oh sorry I skipped one sorry that's my fault do we want ba for that across the
board stay with it yeah yeah okay um what is a solar photo a tanning salon is that a tanning that's a that's a solar farm solar F solar it's a big T know where to look for you before you
go on vacation I don't do that okay that's a yes a Delta take here I put is PB yeah medical marijuana yeah okay let's go to the next slide industrial all right Earth removal
no light manufacturing planning board how do we Define light manufacturing it's anything that heavy is not literally literally yeah it's pretty fuzzy
considering that in IIA we have not heavy manufacturing is no let me let me read it to you all right contractor's yard no every time we say yes it's oh do we want to make this a yes gu
anything over 20,000 oh sorry yeah special permits just make this a yes what are we talking about contractors J no light manufacturing yeah we have that the indoor manufacturing predominantly from previous prepared materials or finished products or parts including
processing fabrication assembly treatment packaging and distribution typically characterized by noise uh noise odor smoke heat glare and vibration being contained within the building with no external effects detectable across
property lines examples include food textile leather wood paper chemical plastic Metal Products and renewable or Alternative Energy excludes basic industrial processing of raw materials and any outdoor storage of materials so if it's Audible at the
property line it it's not like it's essentially what you see down at 129 but it's also what lucky you lucky Martin is is late it's usually it looks like an office building you don't really know what's going on say yes let's say yes because and it goes anything over 20,000 has to come through us anyway okay
yep um Granite no so the rest is no which is across the board then we have contractor's yard this is where like CB was the problem so I put no yeah right no I would I would
suggest that for other areas in town indoor Contracting yeah might be okay PB or yes PB definitely PBB um bive thing is supposed to be like yes that's right why' you say Mar isn't that like what that what they came for 129 that beehive
thing was supposed to beehive yeah that's that's a good point yeah that could see probably be viewed that way okay transport terminal like a bus stop like bus terminal that's um that's it's
something akin to what UPS does oh but it's it's along the that scope and scale right what's a wood operation um furniture that page yeah apparently I think it's not nothing that you're going to want in your
neighborhood is Forest Wood Lots portable woodwork Mills and Machinery located on a property for use in connection with the forest and wood lot operations the owner well lumber yard but it's like before what happens before it gets to the
lumber ask so pedestrian and vehicular access to erress in by private way two and from use is permitted in an IIA District which is what they're going to want I think that's what they want but I don't know what it means
yeah so because many of our transition zones are but IIA districts you're going to want to allow the opportunity for someone to pass propose a vehicular access to and from and over so do we want to say yes to this I would do uh planning board plan yeah we we dealt
with this as I recall up on uh Route 40 yep does this also include the actual parking lot itself just the access no it's just it's just it's just the access okay remember to build a parking lot you need a principal use and that requires site
plan approval and or use special permits okay okay uh sale of goods retail sales of goods the majority of which are produced or undergo processing on the pre
premises what's an example of this um we could have a um I mean Bakery is a good example which is uh number 14 um you could have you could have you could have a leather leather shop um a lot a lot of it's going on in
town um particularly like in Mill areas so like in up in in North Chumps where there are a lot of transition zones conflict areas you'll see small um kind of like cottage industries they're in a commercial setting and they they're doing fabrication customization of
something could be a metal shop a leather shop a wood shop um and providing them a retail opportunity is it's good you you want to be able to do that you want PB or do you want why with the how about why under
10,000 well I would keep this PB because there might be some uses that uses that might not be appropriate if it's more of the depending on what they're making yeah yeah heavy production type of
things versus right yep honey production or something like that micro breweries making symbols I don't know if any of you remember when I proposed a a uh micro Brewery uh overlay
District didn't go anywhere I think that's a great idea I think Littleton did something like that yeah so many did that recently and they have a bunch of micro BR popped in yeah Self Storage mini warehouse I said no again thinking
that we would save that for the IIA District um Warehouse again I said no thinking that that's more appropriate for IIA yeah research and development I would keep this PB PB
okay I think in the IIA it's allowed by right so you know there's a lot there's a lot of research and development that takes place in whether it's locked or other other IIA that we don't know what they do I mean unless there was specific research and
development areas that you had concerns about that you thought warranted coming to planning board um currently we don't differentiate between any type of research and development so that's all treated the same the research and development in and of itself I don't
think is of concern it's usually you know how many trucks you getting delivered or um but even even even like therof fish up on M Road that's SC and scale if it had external tank Farms maybe that's you know viewed
differently and that's kind of why I was thinking PB for this transitional area because it depends you still may have a small facility that might create significant truck traffic or it depends on what the
here I mean a lot a lot of R facilities are a bunch of offices with a bunch of Geeks like me like you sitting around pushing uh pushing mice in front of a computer screen and then they may have a small
protoype prototype shop Associated now whether both of those are part of the same use or how you treat them I don't know I mean the only thing that's ever going to bother any anybody and be any different from a uh just an office
building is going to be the U the model shop you're not going to get many R&D as principal use they're probably going to come in at light manufacturing with accessory mhm um you know again I maybe cap the size that way you limit you
limit all impacts but want to do that why with I don't I don't think either option is going to be I I would keep it PB for the transitional we can we can do that and see what comes before us and if we need to change it we can change it all right
all right so how is this different than the previous parking structure parking garage structures accessory to Industrial use so this would be a I like I have a PB because it matches IIA yeah I think that makes
sense and I think this was the problem why they couldn't with Maxwells because this was a no correct that's why currently they can't do anything because it's a no um well remember I mean the parking
structur garage is different is different than an atg grade parking lot right mhm so this this would allow um someone in Kate's corner to build a parking
structure you are still you were still not allowed to to build a at grade parking lot as a principal use this is why this is why the um the parking garages is only allowed
as as an accessory use the town doesn't didn't want parking lots and parking garages just popping up without there being a business associated with it fair enough so okay so I'm a little confused why
can't why then could they not purchase Maxwell's currently in put a parking I lot in there my my understanding is that the uniqueness with that scenario is that it's not physically connected it's
separated physically by the Bruce Freeman Rail Trail now if the town were to meaning the planning board and the town were to Grant air rights so to speak to physically connect their main
facility with um the adjacent lot then there would be a physical connection and that would likely then solve um that it it wasn't um physically separated but because Maxell access because Maxwell is
physically separated got it it's not it's not you can't treat it under zoning as part of the principal so changing it to IIA I so my the reason why I'm asking is did we address everything we needed to address like change here that because it was my understanding we needed to change the CB to
IIA because that was the first request that came in so at at a minimum Council suggested that the zoning District would need to be the same that's likely that's likely a minimum I think you also need to take
the extra step and decide um whether you want to allow parking lots as a principal use I was just going to suggest that adding a line item for this Zone and as a as a principal
use unless unless unless unless the endgame for this particular location is going to be a physical connection with a building on the for the com at Maxwell's property well what where's if you if if
if you open up if you allow people businesses to build parking lots that don't have a building on them a business M there's all kinds of what of scenarios that that can come of that the town didn't
want parking lots without a business or a building on it which I think it's me reasonable sounds more like we're having an issue with the definition of accessory right that we're saying it has to be contiguous so can't we just extend that a little bit and say it has to be within a certain distance can you
certainly can that seems like a sensible way to handle it certainly can so we would add a line item here for parking lots you'd have to add a new a new line item for parking lots yep that
are accessory but not accessory use and then redefine accessory distance yeah provide a definition and we could just put no for the other zones for now right okay so we would have to
define the use add a line to the table put a yes or planning board for this Zone and no for all of the other zones right and let's just give let's just give some careful thought as
to what the proximity Is to the principal so I want to put this accessory to Industrial uses right this would be well your new Line's going to be um parking lot accessory accessory to principal
use nothing to do with IIA so not a 17b a whole new line right I would do a uh right a whole new line yeah and then have something about proximity okay so this is going to be
accessory to the uh uses in this new District right right okay parking I'm sorry say that again parking no I think it's it's a parking lot parking lot accessory use accessory use and then we have to redefine access
use to be a proximity instead of just just just just toine parking lot okay as an accessory use further defined okay by proximity I see and but this wouldn't be in the industrial section of the table this
this need to be its own it's only as I understand it's only going to be applied to this new zoning District to start out with right so this tables sectioned into industrial commercial residential well yeah because it's industrial though yeah
it would be you may have to list it under commercial and Industrial yeah I would think we would seems sensible and again you may not want to allow it for commercial other zones yeah I think we shouldn't allow it for other
zones until we have those further discussions down the road right yeah you have to think about where it applies or we would want it to place okay so that's PB all right this is I want to change this to the on or do I have to put this as 22 um I think for Simplicity maybe make
it 22 okay for now and then 38 in commercial oh I can't have in two PA can't you have to do I because it needs to also apply in the commercial grouping too
M so I just wanted to bring to your attention I I believe 103 Drum Hill is is in the room I don't know if you wanted to take a pause yeah maybe we take a pause on the seid part of it and go to 103 um are people okay with
that fine with me and then we can see how long that takes and then um I don't know maybe do it next time or maybe not if we can get to it tonight well we're largely through the list aren't we well now we have to look at the seid is there anything is there
anything can we just look at covid real quick because it's I just um I think it's just to determine whether or not seid we should make it applicable currently applicable in CA CB CC CD and IIA zoning districts and then
the next slide go down more I put what the purpose and intent of seid is I'm not going to read them all but I think everybody can read
them because I initially when we were discussing it me and Mike are discussing I was like no um I'm sorry what I was a no initially for it it being applicable for SE yeah but then I kind of read I went back and read applicability a purpose and intent
yeah and I was like well it fits this it does okay so what are we going to call it by the way do we know that or have we discussed that we can we discuss that later because that'll take a half hour couple
ofe um because then that way we can kind of wrap this up and we can move on okay yeah that might unless you want to spend a lot time why don't we say on the face of it for the purpose of this conversation let's make it applicable the new Zone applicable unless could other people have other ideas on
that I'm still up in the air on it because I think if we can achieve the same things with the underlying zoning we wouldn't need the overlay so is the so is
the is the concern that the seid introduces the opportunity for multi family setting that aside setting that aside setting that aside my concern the primary the primary benefit of seid compared to the underlying zoning is
that by definition it requires and Prov provid the planning board the legal ability to require higher quality of architecture Landscaping connectivity pedestrian improvements so it introduces it codify
and formally introduces into the regulatory scheme all of the things that you want to accomplish but that's only if the project comes in under the overlay if correct it comes in under the
Ling zoning all of that's out the window right correct and if all of the projects that we are seeking to put into these zones come in can can come in under under the underlying zoning and wouldn't
need the overlay the overlay is essentially Superfluous and to me introduces a lot more confusion they're going to need the ovet yeah for dimensional flexibility because unless unless the strategy is that
dimensionally we are creating a very specific and prescriptive box and we don't want anything more than that box but remember these these transition zones when you start looking at them they're really difficult
properties so likely going to need dimensional flexibility I would hold on this discussion until after we talk about some of the dimensional stuff yeah okay and then see if I mean we can we because we can also say that the the
overlay doesn't no longer needs to be applied in this section in this area but it still May apply in other places that we have this zoning like you're talking not in Kate's corner but in other like other so I would wait until we're done the
underlying zoning discussion and then see if we still need that overlay in area just keep it as an option okay all right the placeholder for later to next okay meeting and then I mean I think that's a good that's a lot of progress thank you for your hard
work you guys um okay next up we have 103 Drum Hill Road um I mean I guess the only thing I would say is do we want to ask do we want to have any offer to anyone else if they want to say something about
the gates Corner conversation to date tonight in including loed and the neighbors um or do I mean these people have been sitting here all night like to get a reaction yeah they've yeah here think I thought we were going to circle back back to Kate's Corner okay okay
fine if you want to do it do wrap it up let's do one let's do 103 and get it out of the way okay you want to hand all right let's get 103 done and then we'll Circle back sorry sorry good evening uh Greg droes uh senior vice president of asset management for linear retail properties owner of 103 Drum Hill Road
uh here here tonight seeking a parking reduction approval uh to accommodate a change in use uh for the former plaster fund time changing to a jersey mics uh the change to the Jersey mics creates an overall parking deficit of 84 parking
spaces which is an increase of 20 parking spaces over the current deficit um historically the shopping center has operated with three restaurants it used to have a Little Caesars up until 2015 and at that time the parking uh operated a deficit of about 76 parking spaces so
from Little Caesars Starbucks Fel lot to uh Starbucks F lot and Jersey miks would be an increase of eight parking spaces um we also believe that there's some mitigating factors to kind of the demand in our parking lot uh Starbucks
recently opened within the last 3 years about uh 3/10 of a mile up the road which has further reduced uh some of the demand on the Starbucks at our Center uh additionally H&R Block is open seasonally uh they're only open during tax season about four months out of the
year uh otherwise they are closed and then just in general uh consumer demand patterns have changed in terms of uh occupancy of parking spaces with online ordering grab and go uh which has further mitigated uh the demand
here I'll just note we've owned it for 15 years since 2010 and have not had an issue with uh parking occupancy and no complaints from any of our tenants as well how many parking spots are there around the back uh 13 we're striped in
2016 and could there be more and that so those are for like employees employees or customers who go to foda lot it's all lit so people who utilize that end cap can utilize those parking spaces okay are there parking spaces on the front left
corner around the side I thought I saw a handicap space there if you go to the next page I think we have the full parking there you go oh it's a little too light to be able to see yeah it looks like on the left there's a single handicap
space yeah there's handicap spaces here this is all parking here and then handicap here as well okay this is the drive lane here to go around back and then there is parking back here as well so on the side of the building Evan can you scroll
down there's only one handicap space there or are there more regular spaces there are regular spaces there okay all right thank you yeah we uh hired an engineering firm back in 2016 to look at this we're able to increase it from 99
parking spaces on site uh in 2015 uh to to 112 parking spaces and you were doing that cuz you were having a problem then no just uh I think to narrow the Gap that we had at that time anyone have any questions I don't
have questions but I've I've been to the UPS a number of times and all but one time was I able to park just right in front of ups and other than that I was just like one off and there were always spots bu that so I don't think parking is an issue there's no issue there that I agre I've gone to
plaster for Funtime yeah I'm going to say I've done birthday parties a Plaster Fun Time having a group of kids there there's never been a parking issue yep I agree all right one other question are you are you restriping those back ones those are currently there that was uh
this is just a plan from 201 just to show the ones that were added all right thanks okay uh if there anyone from the that would like to speak about this matter do we have to open it okay no what is it
opened do we open it we opened it okay yeah um okay I guess I'll take a motion to move to close the public hearing public hearing second motion by Mike rck second by Anita um and I'll take a motion to vote on The uming Proposal
closing closing public hearing closing public hearing you got to vote on oh all in favor of closing public hearing I okay I would move we Grant the relief requested I second okay motion by Mike second by Anita all in
favor unanimous unanimous thank you all good luck you okay now so not going to circle back to the cod we're going to circle back to the um public comment comment um so if anyone here would like
to speak about the um such as it is our movement towards the a new zoning District thanks good evening an sobleski from Prince LEL for Lockheed Martin
thank you all very much for all of the time and energy you put into making these proposed changes I did have one um question comment suggestion and that's um with respect to the elimination of warehousing entirely because um as it's
defined currently in the zoning bylaw the definition of warehousing making it prohibited across the board in this new Zone would effectively prevent somebody from warehousing something that they had manufactured on the property but if you were to allow it as an accessory use to
one of the allowed uses then that would eliminate that potential conflict we currently do that yeah um I think that warehouse yeah we currently what's your principal use we usually usually based out upon square footage um so warehousing as an
accessory use is it's customary and incidental okay all right thank you that we're calling warehousing that's the use primary use primary use primary use thank you um okay anyone else my name's Ed gr Turner Jr I live at
8 parkerville Road I am currently zoned CB my initial purchase of the property back in 2007 from Agway had a purchase and sales agreement that the CB would stay
intact it was an investment purchase and I'm seeing at this point in time that that investment is going to be infringed upon and
the value of the property would be highly diminished down to if it's turned into an uh residential Zone um and nothing to do with CB any
longer last somebody El what's your address what was your address par be the first one he's the one right there I'm I'm the 100% CB you're 100% CB I'm 100% CB I'm not partially CB like most of the other
properties that have been heard from so you're the one that so the impact is is great Corner cor that one right there can you point to your property on the map I try to uh uh show them where Maxwell's is yeah
show Mike show them where Maxwell's house farming gift that's what the name of the business was back when uh I purchased the property so that one what's the number Carriage House farming gift was
agricultural Y and when the town initiated the uh Farm Act it also created in my opinion uh protection of land use under the Farm
Act and taking CB away is actually infringing on the Farm Act um protection of the property and what it was used for and that was the only use the property was for basically was agricultural uh I had a farm uh
vendors SE seasonal vending license uh and there was hardly any traffic hardly any impact on the area and it stayed aesthetically the way the community likes
it and I'd hate to see that go because to me that's an infringement not only on me and my investment initially but it's also uh was an infringement on purchase and sales agreement that was uh agreed
upon during the sale um and it's an infringement on the Farm Act uh that's supposed to be protected in in this town um other than that it also impacts any
Futures I'm not going to live forever and I already have health issues that's why it's not active right now is because of my personal health but it's not to say that somebody else might want
to continue that type of atmosphere and environment and keep agricultural use on that land as a as a uh Pro uh uh
Community uh happening uh I'm talking somebody else that might take take over the property After I'm Gone um that's one of my concerns my other concern is that my property isn't even
being recognized as being built in 1900 that goes back some some time and if you look at the biome Village itself most of the occupants in the village what was their practices what was their
livelihood that has a big bearing when everyone keeps talking about keeping things in their perspective environments and protections they're ignoring what bu
Village was I just thought I'd like to bring you to that attention can I ask you a question so you ate Park aille MH you're currently CB MH you're concerned about going to residential but would this new
Zone work for you that we just talked about Ai No not I new Zone this new Zone that we're kind it's a mi it's a mix this I I guess I'm not understanding what that zone is actually
saying um maybe I'm hearing it wrong I don't know could you explain so we just went through all the the uses right we went through right um and you saw CB was right next to it so we tried to again initially my thought was to make it all
CB um and take away the motor vehicle repair piece of it that was where I thought was the issue and I can see why in the contractor's yard right those are the two things we wanted to make it know I think we went through it um and we can certainly post this next time for our
agenda so you can go like we'll have this in two weeks we can discuss it go look at all the what we put yes and NOS for for this new zoning I put it as I think I called it CB LT I call this um CB light um because
I it looked more like CB light yeah um there's not a lot of things that we changed right so look at it if and let me know if this works for you this is kind of where we were thinking we weren't thinking your property necessarily was going RB was just to
reone this whole area this CB light um okay okay I didn't know I I didn't know no no no no that's that's why we're here we're talking that's why this is public we did talk about putting the residential back to RB yeah but we
however if his is all CB then but if you look at Anita slides later yeah it kind of reverses some of that yeah I actually said we didn't have a map to it so yeah I said reson some mix of residential and CA currently residential CB how does that work when you have a split Zone on
the property but his is most how does it work they get taxed twice uh separately for the number of square footage no the tax is based upon the usage um there are several zoning Provisions that speak to split Zone Lots
um and the ability to um expand the line or adjust the line with a special permit from the zoning board okay and agricultural uses are allowed aren't they yeah yeah I think we said yes to that right we did say is that what you want is
agricultural Agricultural and yes I do realize that looking back at the history of my property yeah I I um also saw where I guess at one time it was an automotive repair uh it was a an aquarium or fish sales thing was it a
bait place H bait for fish no no it was a aquarium they they sold uh aquariums and fish tropical fish and stuff like that out of there um in fact uh in some of the um portions of the foundation
where it had cracked on the back side of the house towards the backyard um there's a what do you call that gravel that colored gravel they put in the bottom of fish tanks there's actually that coming out and I'm like what so
that only confirmed what the property was use of besides me uh also when I was cultivating in and when I first bought the property and finding U the frame of an automobile in buried in the ground and I was like are you kidding me I have
an automobile chassis in my backyard so just some some additional information fun find it's currently a single family used property it's a current currently uh single family zoned
CB residence yes but but I think a lot of the uses that we've included in this new special zone are covered are part of that all all my point was is that uh any of the non-residential uses have been
abandoned under zoning so there's no grandfathering at this point the lot is under sized CB and um um RB if we were to go that both require minimum 40,000 square feet this is
undersized so it would be able to continue as a single family if the board uh chose to uh Advance this as the new CB light yeah in order for it to transition from a single family to
any of the non- single family uses in the new new zoning District would require significant zoning relief but even under current CB even under current CB it would need significant Z Rel yeah so it's not like we're changing it understood yeah yep
it's still the same right right so so his the historical aspects are basically not applicable any longer I I understand but from his perspective whether we did C whether it stays at CB or we do the CB light it
doesn't change no you're right it doesn't really it doesn't change it like again take the time you got we'll post this they'll be out there take and look at this current CB and put what we put in um I just want to go back to the
agriculture just to be clear so what we talked about was the non-exempt but there are exempt agricultural uses by law the state exemption for egg and Mike help me out here is it has to be for commercial purposes and it's commercial is defined
as um making a certain amount of Revenue per year that is reportable and I believe it's $1,500 uh it varies between a th000 and 2,000 and it's and it's up to uh is it now three and it's per acre but but
exempt use has to have a minimum of three acres or two acres uh I don't necess noncontiguous two two acres of non-contiguous land so it's it's a corporation it's a legal entity I remember the non-contiguous yeah so what the what chump has done is they chump has said via zoning we're
we're agricultural friendly anywhere in town well beyond the state the state exemption so it is it's in theory encouraging agriculture whether it's gentleman's Farm small commercial farming micro
farming right and that's the thing I wanted you to hear is that currently your concerns about agricultural exists as right so that doesn't change with anything that we're doing because I also wanted to uh uh make sure that the public also as well as the community
understood that at no time when I was running the business as it was at that time um even as a uh a farm stand out front uh selling produce uh did it cause
any traffic problems at all for the community um and that most times I was doing local delivery service to to make sure that it wasn't going infringe on anybody you know and the traffic in the
area yeah thank you thank you thank you sir you Dro something right there that's no that's that's I don't know whose card it is okay you can leave it right there then you leave it on the on somebody else will drop it on the floor thank thank you very much thank
you is there anyone else who wants to comment nobody on Zoom we don't know don't don't ask we don't know's gone those zoom zoom okay um so did what did we want to
Circle back to wrap up either tonight's meeting or what we want to do for the next meeting sure we have the list up there all right so should like organize the list post it so everyone can kind of look at it and review and see if they have any yep I will send it out I'll
update this presentation and send out the new list um and then everyone needs to give some thought about the seid yep and about the setbacks yep so I have this in the presentation I you bringing that up yeah I have it I'm going to the the
first page is that what you wanted the the the schedule go to the dimensional requirements dimensional y for next week next meeting 326 because I'll update the the slide we can make a decision on
seid while I'm doing this to Chris's point it it may make sense just to table seid entirely see what see what we come up with okay yeah that might make more sense yeah just you know just as know what we're talking about yeah as an
exercise yep so meeting 326 so these are the dimensional requirements that not a lot [Music] but that we have and then these these were the seid site and building requirements if we decide to go
through seid this is where we would have to spend some time yep and just for context the seid table by right increased everything by 20% I think it was 20% and then the special permit
increased it by another percentage and again that was part of the the strategy it may turn out that you know you you create customized dimensional requirements for this new CB Light District but you want to provide some limited
flexibility so in that case you know the seid table the seid bylaw could be applicable but you're not using the exact dimensional requirements which is fairly aggressive so we would would not have something in here is that what you're saying no what I'm saying is you
may want to provide flexibility but not to the extent that the current seid provides it they want to scale it back to make it more Village like y so I'm not I'm not advocating to use the exact seid I'm advocating that I
think it's worth using the strategy and the opportunity and flexibility that that concept provides but it certainly warrants customizing an Eid applicability as well
yeah rather than 20% maybe it's only 5% or 7% MH so we didn't get as you can see there's a column and it's all blank we didn't get this one far mhm another another round of coffee another round of coffee all [Music]
right okay can you send out the slides earlier no just for that I'm sending it to everybody else but you ear you will get it an hour before the meeting yeah
okay uh next up we have liaison updates um and have any LS on updates for us I didn't mention anything lot I want to mention some of vinyl square meeting we had a previous to the last meeting it was late the other night so I didn't
want to give you an update but uh our last Ral Square meeting actually lasted like 3 hours was almost like a planning board meeting it was crazy but uh it was a good meeting um they talked a lot
about the um uh Route 3A and um square is under the do's um 20 25% design uh for redoing the entire intersection so it's going to be take it over the next 10 years to
complete the I mean the overall project is a window of like 10 years but the planning is going to take a little bit of time so they they did a it was a really good update um there's a lot of neighborhood uh as you can would know that they're taking away parking really
relocating some parking up that area putting bike LS in so we had more attendance to any meeting that we've had in a long time the past couple of months so it's great uh so there's a lot of activity uh the the vinyl square group is it seems to be growing um but it was very good and then as you saw on I think
it was um Conservation Commission the um uh on the lake uh South well um no up in uh Freeman Lake oh they talked about uh I think I learned a lot about Aqua uh lakes and uh where the Watershed comes
from where and where it's amazing you know so it was pretty cool but that was about two hours of the meeting but um so it was really good uh the group is changing a little bit um Joe's done a great job Joe tney has the the lead I
think he's stepping aside on the lead so um maybe after the election uh one of your team members here because I'll be stepping down uh but I will be on the V staying on the vinyl square committee that um it's a good committee so if uh
one of you guys want to think about being the liaison for the planning board they've got a lot of good activity up there um if they do handle a lot of things up on the North side of chumford so and they won't have representation on this board now so so think about it if
if it's a good committee and if you want to see me every quarter just don't see me I believe it or not actually be kind of interested in some of that cuz I I we we Farm up there that's right so um they meet quarterly okay quarterly may u I
think they'll probably get to a more of a regular basis uh going forward if uh it gets a little bit organized uh Virginia Timmons is also joining that committee uh so she's been attending uh for all all the meetings as
the Lea on from the select so that now that she's stepping off the board too she's going to join that committee as well so Powerhouse commit all yeah be a veritable Powerhouse up there yeah well no just that uh they just want they do want to just have some representation
yeah so that's what they're concerned about that they're the afterthought but they're going to succeed but they're not going to succeed no what what what are their nights they typically no it gets they don't not have regular basis a regular meeting set a Cadence um they'll throw out hey what's the availability
the next one and depending on the when everyone can do it that's how they set up the meeting so I think they're going to um with de uh with Excuse me with Virginia being on the board now I think they're going to set a little bit more Cadence a little bit more form and uh just kind of structure it so they get
the more of the public knowledge out there so but it's starting to grow um and I think it's starting to expand outside of that but uh there's a couple of you know obviously the the truck issues up there and all that so there's a lot happening so it's a good committee that's why I just wanted to give a
little two cents they normally do not last 3 hours maybe an hour and a half so but uh we could have used coffee that night but it was good so it's a good group that's all I want to say to you guys is when you guys are splitting up and making Lea on assignments uh come
join us well like I said I I I would have some interest we'll see what happens when we get there um anyone else yes um so last week on March 6 I attended a zoning board of appeals meeting and the meeting lasted uh nearly 3 hours but uh about half the time was
spent on discussing uh a a uh request from the on from Cobblestone 5 this is a five rental uh unit development on Maro AV it's a 40b and they were seeking an exemption to be able to allow to connect
to the uh Municipal sewer system and after a lot of um input from the proponents of the project a lot of um a butter input um ultimately the board voted to allow them to connect to grant them that exemption because I think the concerns where there's near it's it's
this development is right near now for a Protection District uh the northw uh District was very concerned about it and also two is um you know there was a lot of comments from the public um ultimately the board discussed that at
least uh in this doing this taking this route they have some ability to negotiate and have some control over the project where if the board voted no and the proponents of the project appeal to the state it's very likely the 40b will be approved but the zba would lose any
ability to um you know manage manage it in some degree so how much more capacity do we have how many if more 40 BS come up so senstive VAR it's certainly a concern then I don't think it was a preference um the
waiver request and the granting um if you and I John I think you can attest to this count it was on council's advice yeah within the world of 40b um outside of 40b yeah I mean the town through DPW made it clear they
didn't they didn't recommend granting it they articulated why um and to play this forward I think I know you expressed an interest in having this as a discussion uh for planning board just had a meeting um with DPW and
the manager and they indicated that the long-term um Wastewater options plan will be presented in um in May and their suggestion was after that is presented to the select board it would make sense
for them to come to the planning board and update and and have a have a discussion excellent thank you anyone else I've got some updates from concom um they approved hildr uh
reluctantly with a lot of well some significant um special conditions um and a lot of them were very similar to the special conditions that we've seen um and on um brick hiln and uh 270 b r uh
similar to the turtle nest areas and things like that they also had um they made it a point that they still um have concerns about the ongoing uh discussion on the
health department side um regarding the title five which still needs to get approved uh there's still um Hydro Geo study that's still open as well as the uh contamination study that's still open
uh but they did end up passing uh that project um was it unanimous yes y um primarily because the project has addressed all of their concerns within their jurisdiction um the remaining concerns
are outside of their jurisdiction with Board of Health and so now it really the only remaining hurdle that I um am aware of is the board of Health um approvals which are still
outstanding and there's no um anticipated timeline on um our I haven't heard anything from Council on the appeal um they have the file they're doing a full review of the file and whatever council is y and
whatever um filings with the court that are required they're they're doing on behalf of the board okay we haven't received any so I I don't know if any have taken place yet okay can I sorry can I ask I was just asking off the I was just talking to a
reason here um how does that how does that affect the fact that we turn down that project well I mean they're still getting their approvals you you need all approvals to have a project y independent processes so they're different laws appealing our rejection
and they still need Board of Health approval right so if they get Board of Health and denied and then well if they get Board of Health denied then I think it's I just didn't know how that works well there're different jurisdictions so it's essentially different areas they
need all three approvals right um for that develop for that development right but they could do all those something else yeah I mean ours is under 4A concom is under the wet lless protection act yeah the Board of Health is under they have their own whatever for that
projectt yeah so they're independent laws independent processes right thank you um they also mentioned that they'll they're going to review the lighting bylaw details and they'll likely write a letter of support between now and either select board or town meeting uh from a
Conservation Commission uh perspective um they're also looking to update their bylaws soon um in they're looking they're looking towards the Gap analysis like we are uh to help with that but they're also independent of that looking
at all of their other bylaws um to strengthen them uh based on lessons learned from past projects and then finally their next meeting um in two weeks will start at 6:30 and it'll start with the uh presentation of the
Watershed study results um from the town uh related to um all of the watersheds in their area um looking at where uh some of the problem areas are and things like that so if you want to tune into that I
went to the Board of Health and um there really wasn't much that had to do with our stuff but there was some interesting um interesting U things of tobacco violation so forth so on and also the
Board of Health has uh banned the use of Crum or the sale of Crum in town Crum Crum what's that nobody knows nobody knows excellent but it's spelled k r a t o m so if you Google it is basically a
plant that um has is has been used for people who are recovering from opioid use but it itself can also be addictive also for people with chronic pain issues it has helped but there are other also and it's particularly because it's
unregulated that they were concerned about the fact that it in fact confirmed that yes it in fact is being sold in Chelmsford and because of that low Bandit we have now banned it other towns are looking to ban it too so interesting
yeah they had three different three different meetings on it three different hearings on it first one uh there's a ton of people there and then it just slowly weaned down to the end to the people who were opposed to it so it's no surprise opposed to the Banning or opposed to the opposed to the use of
katum the sale crat get it online though I went to the center Village meeting uh last month and D just shared the letter that was sent out to the planning board and select board um due to the plans not being followed through where they were supposed to put a foot Bridge um and
that has not been and right now they're saying they don't plan on doing so um so I know that that is also going to Town Council so and and Jose the and penciled in for your 26th agenda okay yes with Kate's
corner I didn't I I don't really have much more to say of the I wrote brought up at the end of the last meeting when I was sick and it was late um that we did discuss at the housing Advisory Board nmogs um putting together for all the
sending towns or whatever you want to call the towns that make up ncog um as part of a regional housing plan that the state is looking for they're trying to in with the communities on a town housing plan um
so they took input from a lot of different stakeholders and they're putting together a plan they presented a um preliminary um plan I guess I could send that out to you guys if people are interested in
seeing it maybe that we should do that but basically I just said to Mike who is our liaison to this project that I thought in the only way that we would be probably getting from a structural standpoint with our infrastructure limitations that the only way that this
community would be likely to buy in would be specifically looking towards the missing middle and trying to see if there's areas that we would want to explore um targeted um Housing Development you know
more for more for seniors more like more for starter homes um maybe something along the idea of River Meadow but for not for seniors you know what I mean like kind of satellite housing I don't
know how to describe it but and he agreed and I think everyone on the housing Advisory Board agreed would you would you agree with that and do you have other things yeah the only thing I would say is um the housing production
plan is a plan that um is out growth of 40b mhm um communities that have a housing production plan are at a stronger position to uh deny 40 BS um so the real regulatory
incentive uh is is simply 40b uh however Chum has historically also used it more recently uh to articulate its local housing needs and strategies to to accommodate that which
speaks to the the missing middle procedurally the planning board and the SL board both need to adopt it in order to be sent into the state to be certified um but it's akin to a master plan it has lots of recommendations in there some of
which you know may be implemented and others may be considered but no action taken aspirational yeah um but at some point during this process I think it makes sense for what there is a draft obviously planning board will be invited
to the process but it may make sense to have it as a dedicated agenda item definitely I think he I think he said that in his timeline one of the things was that he would bring it to I mean obviously for us to adopt it and support
it we're going to have to hear it formal setting so I think that was on his rough timeline for the spring Y what do we have for meeting like for um items on our next meeting all I have is Kate's corner and 11 Cushing the
bridge so um 495 they're redoing the bridges on 495 and one of them Miss gorm Street on at the 26 March 26 I live right off of um
495 um and like hildr my street is extremely narrow they're having a meeting because they're going to start this it's going to be a three-year project and I have I need to go to that I like to go to that it's at six o'clock it's on the it's on the same day as our meeting on the same day so if we don't
have a lot can we start at 7 or 7:30 just because I have to make sure that they can't park on my street otherwise you're screwed otherwise like trash won't get picked up you know the whole all the problems about having narrow stre I can't like this is a two-year project so we need to kind of go start 7
or would 7:30 7:30 do people object to 7:30 no no have no problem it doesn't sound like we have much okay thank you let's do 70 meeting okay yeah before we move on from leaz on updates um fincom
town meeting warrant article reviews do we know what the schedule is for that yeah I was going to ask about that because I have to be there hold on I think it's I I think it starts tomorrow night but usually they invite specific they yeah hold on let me check the
agenda I believe Kelly's there tomorrow night for lighting I don't know if they invited planning board may maybe not if I have not heard anything may be a good thing I probably have it in my email but T Wednesday would have been
posted Library show John yeah I'm just bringing up looks like um starting off the library nooba finance department Cemetery veterans uh Public Access television that's the bud and zoning and bylaws 29
Kelly's um outdoor lighting is near the tail and the the gender and that's that's the only one I see on there articles 29 and 30 for to lighting that pertains to y when is their next meeting after the 13th the week after the 20th
yeah okay so you'll so the week after yeah yeah after you guys are doing it week by week we be do yeah we'll be doing week by week okay I think we skipped the first week because it was a zba right is that likely I think that's why they SK that's
why we ski yeah we skipped the first Thursday of the month because of the zva we select board do we know when that's likely going to happen after the election okay all right now we have the
um Grant I brought that up on the screen B provided yeah I thought that was well stated was just for some additional context the um expression of Interest
closes on March 26th as Joel indicated it's the 500 um you know character high level M and what what the state does with that is they then provide some uh feedback um as to whether it is a good
fit or are there other fits within the um their State uh uh grant program this is obviously uh planning related um so it's an eligible activity the actual full submission application is much more involved
requires a a scope a budget um articulating uh what are the what are the what are the expected outcomes what are the Strategic goals and objectives
um so we can and I don't have the Dead the deadline for that offand I think it's June um something like that yeah uh but my suggestion is you know maybe maybe do a one or two members to work offline um to then present something back to the
board if the if the interest is to have the full board involved um otherwise um you know I can um certainly uh you know be the primary author on the Grant on behalf of the the board and you know
update the board accordingly can you send along like kind of the PDF of the yeah what it is yep that's a good idea Y and and then also how yeah what what the deadline is and how much money we talking about um as I understand the scope you
want to review the existing use table and zoning map and do modernization and update I mean with a consultant you know that's that's at least 60 could be upwards of 100 depending upon the level of Engagement
with the board and the public um it's it that's a heavy lift MH um I mean today tonight's exercise kind of goes you know kind of tells you well I mean we saw how long it took us tonight to get through right um and then
updating the zoning map if it's comprehensive to adjust all the areas that's that's that's not you know that that's an involved process as well um but it's certainly needed yeah you know I I I think it's needed in the sense that
the town hasn't modernized its use table or zoning bylaw and it's kind of run its course to the point where um the community the board the applicants are paralyzed it doesn't reflect what what the town truly wants um the key to um the Grant
application from the state's perspective is being able to to clearly articulate a desired outcome to promote housing and economic development opportunities and I think Ton's exercise shows that you know we're we're aligned with that mhm and we
just need to talk about I mean we can also talk housing and what to what extent housing is is a is a complimentary component of that right and I mean we're we're also just the economic development helps us to develop the infrastructure that we need to
support for that y you know we can I think it's a compelling story I think it'll be a competitive application yeah I'll send out I'll send out the PED we said we we discussed in the context of the MBTA I mean there was number of areas
that we kind of pointed to and said this would be a good place for x or y several of which included housing as well as you know other yep things and let me send out the PDF of the application you can begin to think about
it you know you can imagine they do have questions that are ranked um if you how you answer them you get bonus points and if you answer them or if you have like I'll give you an example if you have if you have restrictions on um Housing
Development moratoriums things of that nature do you allow by right is all your housing Allowed by special permit this year's application as you indicated may have questions about MBTA zoning and adus so they they use it to
leverage communities that are what in their eyes are doing the right thing or intend to do the right thing so we'll have to see I I haven't looked at the application I'm not sure if it's posted yet we need to get this in by the 20th I
think it's soon the letter of interest is uh 26th okay March yes yeah which which is plenty of time that's just that's just exactly what Joel submitted here oh okay I thought you meant the full yeah just to say that we need to
submit something soon this is the letter of interest is not a requirement it's more it's just adved solit feedback better position yourself for the proposal okay all right so 7:30 for the 26th are you going to take the lead on
submitting that I I can yeah I mean I I'll work with you to um U refine it sure I don't know if he had 500 wordss or or what have you I I think I was I think I was within 500 car characters okay and then we have the not words
minutes did everyone have a chance to read the minutes I do have one correction I do too which one the board will have Joel and Mike draft a zoning proposal at least Anita should be on there same correction yeah well it wasn't I was going to
submit inputs and they were going to develop the so I should should say that within okay so have Anita and Mike with input from Joel and others as yeah that's it's good
yeah the context of some of these um um board revisions as you likely know the town uses an AI right system which which which is really good it has trouble occasionally picking up um details of
votes right depending on you know the the pace that the meeting is taking place um and that usually Becky um will rely on the Motions because in
the past it's been really good um so I think that's the theme it's been related to motions I think the last two or three this one this one for these it seemed like the motions and the votes were pretty accurate okay yeah okay it
was just that one assignment of the zoning and and as I remember as we were discussing it there was some back and forth back and forth in on it the human element confuses AI so but in general it's been really good I
agree Chris thought that Nina didn't want to do it she said what are you talking about you picked the right people I thought it was perfect you guys did a great job yeah excellent um okay I'll take a motion I move that we approve the minutes of uh
February 26th with that with changing as noted second motion by Mike risbeck second by Anita all in favor I one more motion please motion to adjourn second motion by Anita second by Mike risbeck
all in favor I e e