Donnie and by train and then we took a bus I think down and then took the train. >> Right, we're going to get started. Good evening. It is 7 o'clock on Wednesday, October 22nd and I am calling the meeting of the Chsford Planning
Board to order. My name is Chris Lavali and I'm the chair of the board. Tonight we'll be following the posted agenda. Uh do we have anyone on Zoom tonight, Evan? Okay, so tonight we will uh be in person uh without a zoom and the meeting is
being televised live and recorded via Chelsea media and will be available on their website and on YouTube. Uh so first item on the agenda is public input. Public input should be limited to statements from the public relating to any issues within the jurisdiction of
this board that are not current subject of a pending public hearing uh before the board. Public comment on any public hearings shall only be heard uh during such public hearings. And I did want to note Anita did text me and she's running a few minutes late.
So is there anyone from the public who would like to speak? And there is Anita. Seeing there none, um we will move on to the next items on the agenda. Uh given that it is a prepacked agenda tonight,
um I am going to ask that the public hearings tonight be limited to a maximum of 45 minutes and uh try and keep the two administrative reviews to 15 minutes um or less uh because we do have other
uh board business at the end of everything to deal with. So, first uh administrative review is Old Westward Road. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good evening. Attorney Jim Dangora for uh the applicant George Allen and Sun uh
uh incorporated. Um what we have before you is an application for an ANR endorsement. Uh we have uh just about 3.98 acres. Uh it's sometimes commonly referred to as a triangular lot. So, we have uh significant uh frontage on
accepted public ways. So, it's entitled to an ANR endorsement. Just by way of history quickly, uh you may have uh may recall back in June, we were here for an ANR endorsement on this property. Um we've reconfigured the the lot lines uh
and we went for a variance uh before the zoning board of appeals uh because lot B doesn't comply with the 80% upland requirement. we were granted that uh that relief. Um so here we have uh this plan. We're back before you for this
amended endorsement. Uh so we can move forward with uh with the next phase of the of the project. So very simply, plenty of frontage doesn't constitute a uh a subdivision. We respectfully ask for your endorsement.
>> Okay. Any questions from the board? I did have one question. Did Comcon um conservation commission approve this plan? They uh they approved they didn't approve it with this lot line. Okay. >> But but what they did approve were very
tight building envelopes for for the two uh two houses which will appear on either side. Okay. >> Almost mirror each other on that that lot line. So, it's a very uh tight building envelope in there. So, >> and just out of curiosity, are you guys going back to them? >> Uh, I don't believe we need to. We're
all We're all set. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, are there any other hurdles that you guys have to go through potentially coming back to us for another one? >> Um, sir, I certainly hope not. Uh we're in discussions with uh uh Board of
Health at the moment regarding some of their requirements, but yeah, we we we hope not to be before you folks again, >> right, >> for this particular lot. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> All right. If there are no other questions, I will entertain a motion. >> I will move that we grant the ANR with
no determination as to zoning. >> Second. >> Second. >> The motion by Mike, second by John. All in favor? >> I. Fantastic. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Hey, thank you very much. Have a great evening. >> You too. >> Well, that's an auspicious start.
>> Next on the agenda, 15 research place. >> Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board. For the record, my name is Brian Melissi. I'm an engineer with Haley Ward Associates. Uh here with me tonight is Steve Padre from Clue uh who is the tenant of the building at 15 Research Place and Chris Clark who's the
contractor at Pecad Construction. Uh what we're here tonight is asking for a minor modification to the minor site plan approval that was granted just about a year or so ago. Uh and has to do with the the parking lot. As you can see on the on the screen in the green area,
we want to reconfigure the parking uh island in which to better facilitate a uh sweep path for the trucks leaving the loading dock. The loading dock is in, the retaining wall is in. Most of the utilities are in. Um and before they
button things up, they we would like to just reconfigure the island. What it happens is it's an additional nine spaces will be impacted. However, we still are well over parked for the use. Um,
light poles will be shifted accordingly and some of the trees that get supplanted on the original island that was going to be reconfigured will be put back onto the island. We're still well within uh landscaping standards. Uh, I think all told we lose about 50 square
feet of interior island space. >> Okay, any questions? Marcy, Deardra, Anita, John. >> Well, I mean, I guess since this plan came before, we've kind of implemented
different um landscaping guidelines and more green standards. I'm just wondering if there's any I mean, we're you know, trying to look for more um green and more trees. I'm just wondering if there would be any opportunity as
part of this plan to adopt any of that. >> Um, I mean, from the zoning regulations, we require about 8,600 square ft of planted area. And as it stands now, we have 34,400 ft of planted area. So, we got kind of
well over over green. I don't want to That's not quite the word I was looking for. >> That's if that's a thing. Um, again, we're not touching any of the perimeter at all. It's really just a reconfiguration of this one interior island. >> Okay. >> Any other questions on this side?
>> Joel. >> Okay. >> Need a motion? >> Not yet. I've got one request actually. Um, I've noticed in the narrative in a couple different places you have some discussion about how many parking spaces
are being removed. I think in the third paragraph you mentioned it's a reduction of seven and you list a total of 110 or uh 112 I think is listed. So >> dyslex let you kick in again. I can recheck. >> I would appreciate just updating the
narrative to reflect. >> I'll do that. Um, so if you could do that at some point and resubmit it to Evan. >> Yep, I can do that. >> Thank you. >> Just so that the uh total is accurately reflected in the narrative. Otherwise, we'll get confused if this does come
back for another change. All right. So, I will take a motion. >> I move we grant the request for a minor mod at 15 research place. >> Motion by Mike. >> Second. >> Second by Deerra. All in favor? I I >> unanimous. Thank you.
>> You very much. Have a good night. >> You too. >> All right. Next on the agenda is 10 Independence Drive. Evening Mr. Chairman, members of the board, Mr. Blansky. Adam Costa with the firm of me Talerman and Costa on behalf
of Ronnet Hospitality LLC the applicant for this CIO special permit. Uh I know that board members are generally familiar with uh the site known as 10 and 12 Independence Drive known to many of of you as the former Rison Hotel. Um
I also understand that this project was before you uh even more recently than I was before you. I was uh before the board back in the latter part of 2024 when we were seeking an approval for what uh is now the adult daycare portion of the site. Uh the project or or the site came back before you a few months
ago following submitt of an application in July uh to determine qualification under the provisions of your CIOD bylaw. Uh my understanding although I was not involved at the time but my client tells me that the board confirmed that the project did qualify under the CIOD
standards. Uh but we do need require a special permit provision uh pursuant to the provisions of that bylaw and so we are before you tonight requesting that special permit. Uh to give you a bit of additional detail uh first off I should introduce Shook Patel the principal of Ronet Hospitality is here with me
tonight. Uh Hushi Ashar with Taj Engineering is also here as well. He prepared of course the the site plan that was submitted with the application materials and to the extent that the board members have specific questions about those plans I'll I'll likely defer to him. Um but you can see that the
proposal that's before you is uh in two parts. Uh the first is to uh utilize the remaining portion of the first story of uh this this middle building I'll call it. Um for a restaurant, specifically a pizza restaurant, the relatively
relatively small restaurant. You can see in the floor plans that were submitted that the floor area of the restaurant is only 1727 square ft in total. Um and then secondly uh second component of the application is to convert uh what was historically uh hotel rooms on the
second story of uh this building uh to 15 apartments and the the breakdown specifically with respect to the apartments uh will be uh and you can see this also it's on sheet uh it's on a couple different sheets but it's most uh noticeable on sheet A-101 of the plan
set. You can see that there's a proposal for two uh what are referred to as onebedroom or studio apartments. They're really studios because of the way that they're designed as the floor plan shows. There's no real separation uh of the bedroom from the living area. Um so there's two proposed studios, there are
12 proposed two-bedroom units, and there is one proposed three-bedroom unit. And again, uh we've provided full full uh floor plans so you can get a sense as to how we are reconfiguring and restructuring uh the second story of of the building. Um we uh recognize that
consistent with the town's inclusionary zoning bylaw that we're required to provide an affordability component which we will comply with. We understand that. Um but that's the that's the proposal uh in a nutshell. Um, I did have an opportunity prior to tonight's meeting in reviewing the agenda and the various
links that you can see on the screen uh to uh see that u there were comments submitted. There was a comment submitted by DPW, another by fire and sort of a a no comment um by the by the police department. Um again I'll defer to uh
Hooi Afar to address the specifics to the extent the board wishes to uh of the DPW letter which had a number of components to it but uh suffice it to say uh in a nutshell that we have no no objection to uh those requirements. There were I think four uh specific
items that really related to adjustments to the plan. Um we could make those adjustments ideally uh if if the board is in a position and believes that it is prepared to approve the proposal. We those could be conditions of approval, but we have no objection to the substance of those four suggestions.
There was also reference throughout the DPW letter to uh compliance with various uh codes, state codes, which of course we will comply with. We have to comply with even if we didn't want to comply with uh we're obligated to. And the same really goes for the fire department's letter. the fire department cited to uh
various uh NFPA standards um that we're obligated to comply with ranging from uh sprinklers to to other uh various topics that are encompassed in that code and uh we recognize that we will we will need to uh to retrofit the building accordingly and and meet the requirements of uh of state code. Um
what I will say with respect to the CIOD is you have various standards within a fairly comprehensive bylaw uh concerning qualification for CIOD which has previously been determined but also with respect to the issuance of special permits for projects within the CIOD.
Um, what I'll also note, and I suspect you know this, and this probably isn't the first project to come before you, uh, that is a proposed adaptive reuse of an existing building. And >> so many of these provisions, uh, landscaping provisions, uh, parking standards, uh, signage requirements, and
then even some of the specific performance standards that deal with, for example, improved access or excellence in placemaking or comprehensive signage or pedestrian scale. Uh we're not proposing to to to raise or reconstruct or change the footprint really in any way of the
existing building. Uh we have made some uh improvements many of which were before you in the context of the adult daycare proposal about eight or nine months ago. Um we have made various improvements to uh to the site uh in that connection. You can see those on the site plan. Uh my understanding in
talking with uh Mr. Ashar is that there has also been some feedback received from uh from staff uh over the course of the past few months since the last appearance before you. Uh, and there is an updated version. I I think yes, the version that um yes, the version that is on the screen currently
is slightly different than the version that was in the original application package that you received back in July. It's just this one page that the the the main uh site plan, but we added, for example, snow storage areas that were not defined previously on the site. Uh we added uh an additional dumpster. We
also provided dumpster enclosures which had not been proposed in uh in the original plans that were submitted with the application. Um uh and so we made we made various other adjustments that are that are called out throughout the site uh in response to feedback received uh from staff. But in terms of the overall
layout of the site, uh the layout is the same as what was before you um uh about nine or 10 months ago when the adult daycare was proposed. We have better defined the parking spaces. You might recall that that was a discussion that was had when we were last before you. Uh number of parking spaces, layout of
parking spaces as well as the general circulation throughout the site. Uh we have uh designated for ease of reference uh spaces that we would call out as uh a pertinent to or associated with the adult daycare as opposed to spaces that would be associated with the hotel uses
as opposed to spaces that would be associated with the pizza restaurant. Um and we've tried to locate those appropriately. We of course recognize that the reality is when individuals use the site, they may park wherever they find an open parking spot. Um I will say we feel quite comfortable with the parking layout and certainly with the
number of spaces. I don't think it can even be argued that there's insufficient parking on this site. There arguably is maybe too much parking on the site. Um but there's a significant number of parking spaces. Um we are making improvements in the sense that we are repaving the parking spaces and adding some green space and some landscaping
and shrubbery and whatnot. Um and uh and we've improved the circulation which was really uh in large part due to feedback we had received and guidance we had received from the board when we were before you uh in late 2024 um to provide for uh these various uses on the same
site. We think that they're compatible uses and my client um Mr. Patel can certainly speak to this more eloquently than I can, but uh we think that the uses are compatible in as much as you know these hotel uses generally speaking. Uh those who who utilize hotels are not staying in their hotel
rooms during the day. And so we expect that they'll be gone uh during many of the hours when the adult daycare is in use. And then conversely, the adult daycare is generally an 8 or 9 to 4:00 uh proposition, not extending into the evening hours. And the restaurant, as small as it may be, is is a, you know,
going to be, yes, open during daytime hours, but really the the rush that tends to occur in restaurants is more toward the toward the dinnertime hour. And at that point in time, the the uh the daycare uh the adult daycare will no longer be operating. Um certainly, people will be coming back to the hotel. But that's sort of intentional because
in order to keep a restaurant like this in operation, we want the users of the hotel to to frequent it. Um so that's the proposal that's before you. Again, I'm happy to answer any general questions as I can, but if you have specific questions about either the site plan or the the floor plans or questions
about the operations in general, um certainly uh I would invite my client or or Mr. Ashar to speak to those. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh we do have letters. >> Yes, we do. >> Uh this is from DPW. The engineering
department has performed a review of the application for 10 independent strive submitted for applicant run at hospitality LLC. The following contents of the submission were reviewed for appropriateness of method and accuracy as well as for compliance with town of Chel Chsford storm water bylaw. Town of
Chelmsford storm water management regulations division 3 sec sewer capacity and connection restriction and they mentioned both the application packet and the traffic memo. Site layout review outstanding DPW engineering issues not addressed and there's four
bullets as Mr. Costa mentioned. All existing and/or proposed utilities should be clearly and accurately labeled. Size, material, existing, proposed, rim, invert, etc. on the drawing reflecting the most updated utility connections and sizing. Site layout should have registry block and
planning board signature lines and file number. Include utilities and drainage easement on site layout. Proposed sewer connection and grease trap must be shown on plan with proposed elevations and inverts. Sewer comments. The applicant should analyze sewage flow using title 5
and proposed conditions to determine required sewer allocation. This should be submitted to DTPW for approval for existing sewer connections. If there is a change in use or expansion, the applicant should submit necessary floor plans and seating plans to supplement
the sewer allocation calculations. And then there are several bullets that are pretty typical for how they do that. And then there are also four recommended general conditions of approval that I won't read because they're pretty standard. And then also for uh the fire uh the
fire prevention office has reviewed the seat application for 10 independence drive. This the proposal includes a restaurant and 15 apartments. This office offers the following comments. Fire protection systems evaluate ex existing water supply and hydrants to
meet applicable NFPA standards. Sprinkler systems must comply with NFPA13 for coverage design and installation accounting for mixed occupancies. Install a code compliant NFPA72 fire alarm system with full coverage. Separate zones for residential and restaurant areas and UL listed
central station monitoring. Mixed occupancy requirements ensure proper fire separation between residential and restaurant areas per Massachusetts state building code and NFPA standards. Fire rated assemblies and penetrations must meet occupancy and egress requirements.
Egress and emergency lighting. All egress paths, stairways, and exits must meet NFPA standards and Massachusetts state building codes. Provide emergency lighting and exit signage throughout. Wayfinding signage to be provided and coordinated with this office. Commercial cooking restaurant must comply with
applicable NFPA and UL standards. Hood suppression systems must tie into the fire alarm and be permitted before installation. Construction permits. Permits are required for all fire protection work, including sprinkler modifications, installation, fire alarm installation, and kitchen hood
suppression systems. Plan review. Submit final architectural, mechanical, and fire protection plans for review and approval before construction or occupancy as part of the building permitting process. Separate Noxbox key to Chsford Fire Department standards for the apartments
location to be coordinated with this office and E911 application to be filed with the town's E911 committee for addressing purposes of the restaurant and apartments. This must be completed before requesting final inspections. This office reserves the right provide
additional comments once detailed plans are received. We respectfully request this letter be made part of the public record in your decision-making process. Respectfully, Josh Abbott, Captain Harperidge. And there are no concerns from the chumps police department. >> Okay. Thanks.
>> Should be a board of health letter there. >> Is it in the >> Thank you. >> I think it's that one. >> Dear planning board, this letter concerns the proposed project at 10 Independence Drive, which seeks to
convert the easterly side of the building second floor into 14 apartments and the first floor into a restaurant. This applicant is expected to submit sewer calculations, pay for any inflow infiltration increase, sign a memorandum ofum of understanding, and connect to
the town sewer system. If the project cannot connect to the town sewer system, it must comply with town of Chsford Chapter 2011 Board of Health Article 7 groundwater protection zone regulation. Upon board of health approval, an on-site septic system will be required
meeting Title 5 regulations 310 CMR15 and following the health department's application and inspection process. The proposed kitchen facility must comply with the state sanitary code 105 CMR 590, minimum sanitation standards for food establishments, and the town of
Chumpsford chapter 2011, Board of Health, Article 9, Food Service and Retail Food Establishment Provisions. The applicant must complete a food establishment plan review and submit fully full stamped architectural plans for approval. Once these plans are approved, the applicant shall apply for
a food establish permit and a final inspection by the health department must be completed prior to issuency issuance of an occupancy permit. If a dumpster will be located on site, it must comply with town of Chumpsford chapter 2011 board of health article 5 commercial
refuge dumpster collection licensing and operation. Thank you for your attention to these requirements. Respectfully, Donna Greenwood, public health director. >> Did we see a butters letter or two in there for Mr. Chungus? >> Yeah, we I do want to address that at
some point as well. Um Evan, do you have any other >> uh just some um uh quick updates? On September 4th, there was a departmental meeting uh with the applicant that was based upon the um August 8th plan.
Uh there were uh several items of note. Uh first one was the uh some of the bedrooms included closets and DPW wanted them counted as two bedroom two beds. Uh I believe the plan that is in
front of us this evening reflects that change as well as the revised parking ratios per se. Second one was um there was some seating discrepancies with auto pizza. I also believe those have been uh
clarified in the updated plan. There was discussion about in install installation of a bus stop uh in case there are school age children at the apartments. This plan shows a bus stop. I assume that's been coordinated with
the uh school department as far as where they uh would like it located. um either within the culdeac or or not. Um that meeting there was some discussion about um possibility of sidewalks down Alpine
Lane. Um I'm not exactly sure um to what extent uh any conversations have taken place. Um as you as you read the DPW memo doesn't have any uh notes related to that. Um
and final item, uh it was good to hear a confirmation on the um compliance with the inclusionary and I assume that attorney cost will likely continue to be involved in that. Um which uh bodess well for getting through that process.
That's all I have. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Any questions from the board? Marcy. >> Yeah. So, I'm looking at this new plan um and this addition of a bus stop shelter. Are you going to provide some
type of safe walkway for these children to get to and from? Because looking at this, they're walking right through the parking lot. >> This is not safe for children. There's no walkway. There's no crosswalk. The lawn area is used for snow storage. So, during the winter that will be piled
with snow. Um so, to me, this is not safe for kids. >> Uh sure. Through you, Mr. Chairman, if I could. Yes. Uh so um certainly I'll invite Mr. Ashar to comment um if he'd like to. Uh it's his his site plan, not mine. Um but my understanding consistent
with what you just heard from from Mr. Balansky was that there was a request that we include a school bus stop. Okay. >> Um generally speaking, >> the bus stop is there. I can see that it's getting the children to and from the bus stop safely, >> right? And I think the thought is it may not end up where it's shown on the plan, right? Because as the point was made,
it's really up to the school department to determine where they'd prefer that bus stop to be in consultation with the bus company. Well, even if it's like this isn't the location, if it's still somewhere because you're asking these children to walk through a parking lot, unless you're putting this up where you also have the drop off and pickup for the adult daycare, which I probably also
don't agree with being safe because you're going to have people dropping off at the same time the school buses are coming up to. Um, when you're looking at putting together your bus stop location for these potential children, you're going to need to put in some type of safe passageway for them to get to it, not directly walk through where cars are
going to be coming in and parking. >> Sure. No, it's a fair point and I think that the challenge that exists, of course, is the bus company may not want to enter into the site and traverse large portions of the parking lot so as to um pick up children closest, let's say, to the building. Conversely, if you
move the children further away from the building to a location where the bus may be comfortable stopping, you're requiring them to access that location. And how do they access it? Well, by crossing multiple lanes of traffic in a parking lot. Um, we had had some discussion before when I was before you nine or 10 months ago relative to the
adult daycare about safe traversing of the parking lot. And as a consequence of that, we increased the size, for example, of this uh island. It's it's an awkwardly shaped island. And to your point about snow storage in the winter time, it's not much of an island at all. But we increased the size of that island in order to facilitate uh not just uh
traversing the site, but we also added, as you'll see, crosswalks to identify locations where individuals would be crossing and to alert uh uh motorists as to where that would be occurring. But I understand it's a bit different with children, right? Um so we're certainly happy to work cooperatively with the department to place it in a different
location within the site. um recognizing that there there is that sort of push and pull between it's great to get it close to the building so the children don't have to walk through the parking lot but that has to be agreeable to the school department and to the bus company coming further onto the site. Do we care if they come on and to your point they
uh take the same pathway that would be taken by for for purposes of drop off and pickups for the adult daycare? I don't think we object to that. Um but yes, it could create potential conflicts if those pickups in the morning are occurring at the same time as the drop offs for the adult daycare. It may also be that the bus company doesn't want to come that deep into the site and then
have to circumvent the um the the rest of the traffic throughout the parking area, but we'll work cooperatively. >> That's something I'd like you guys to sort of keep in mind is that we need to make sure that you know if we're renting these apartments and they have children that they are able to get out there through some type of safe means to get
to their bus stop that includes like a crosswalk or safe walking area where they're not walking directly through where cars are going to be coming in and out. um because it is very close where the drop off and pickup is for the adult daycare and if you have kids both at the high school, the middle school and the
elementary schools, that bus is coming through at three different times in the morning and then again three different times in the afternoon. So that is definitely going to sort of mix in with when these other, you know, the adult daycare people are going to get dropped off and picked up. A lot of traffic and
a lot of potentials for these children to get injured. >> Fair point. Understood. Anything else? >> That's all I had. >> Before we move on, I'm noticing um a couple statements that you made. I just want to set the the right expectations
and make sure we're aligned. Um typically, this board does not like to approve plans um and projects without a final um version of the plans vetted by us. So, I I heard a couple things that
you mentioned as potential special conditions in a decision. Typically, we have not um approved plans without things like that bus stop being resolved before we approve it. So, I just wanted to make sure that we're aligned on
expectations. >> So, that's fair. I I didn't want to be presumptive. I didn't know if the board envisioned this being approved in a single evening because the feedback I' I've seen feedback much more extensive in prior with prior applications and the feedback here seemed rather minimal. Um police department had no comment, fire
department comments were really rooted in code and the comments from the DPW really only highlighted those four additional ads to the plan. I hadn't seen the letter from the board of health, but I took some notes as to what it contains and obviously I'll review a copy subsequent to tonight's meeting. I didn't hear anything that was problematic there. Most of those also
seem to be rooted in state sanitary code or other provisions of state law. Um but I understand your point concerning uh final plans. I I guess with respect to the bus shelter, all I would say is um I suppose we could have further consultation with the school department. I don't know whether they would make a
final call on a project that has yet to be approved. I'm not sure what their practice is, but >> they're typically pretty open to providing feedback on plans like this. >> Okay. Nothing at this time. >> Okay. Anita, >> nothing.
>> John, >> no questions at this time. >> Joel, >> no. >> Mike, >> nothing here. It looks pretty tame. >> Okay. Um, I did have a couple questions. I noticed that a lot of the snow storage
is on landscaped areas, >> um, which usually destroys the landscaping. Since you guys have so much extra parking, would it be possible to move those that sto snow storage to um the
furthest paved area? Um it helps keep the storm water contained and also helps to keep the landscaping live. >> Uh good evening, Mr. Chairman and board members. Hushman Davaring LLC. They
traditionally the site is a large site and at the westerly end of the property if I may. Um we have an area
uh farther up to the west please. Yeah, there you go. on the other side of the this area uh is uh over 15,000 15,500 square foot and this
is reserved for snow storage. We it's not being utilized for anything beyond these parking spaces and uh in case there's a very heavy storm and even this area gets filled up uh we
are proposing to haul away. >> Okay. >> Which is noted on the plan. >> But you've also got snow a lot of snow storage all over the the rest of the parking lot. >> It's a common practice that all the previous areas to be used as a snow
storage. now which is all the sides and and islands. We have added a few more islands but we have plenty of room on the west side. This is a detention area. So there's no harm in
u really using this area as a snow storage. But if you don't want any any snow u on the uh other green spaces, >> part of the reason why I'm asking is
because there isn't a wide um area of landscaping in some of these spaces. So to destroy the landscaping in those areas with the snow storage um could be problematic for neighbors
>> if if planning board decide to do so that's okay. Uh we do have again that large area however as you know it is common practice >> on the on the edge they provide no curve so you can then push to the previous
areas uh along the edges. as you can see. But again, the the detention area definitely can be used. >> Okay. >> Um, >> and Mr. Chair, if I could, I mean, one thing the board might consider would be to limit the extent of snow storage in
some of those areas. Um, you know, if there's these smaller storms with two or three inches, to suggest that we would have to plow all that snow, uh, move it to the opposite side of the site, um, in in dump trucks or whatnot is a challenge. If we have a, you know, an 18 in snowfall, then I think it would be
appropriate to say we don't want the the banks to be piled um 20 ft high along the entirety of this, you know, 5 foot perimeter around the the parking uh parking area. So, we we we defer to the the board's discretion and we'll we'll accommodate. >> Okay.
Um, I also in I think the previous plan showed a patio for the pizza restaurant and this plan doesn't look like it has it. Is that correct? It looked like it was green space, but I
couldn't really tell. So, I do see that there was I believe the plan, yes, the plan still shows the patio. The site plan does. It's not quite as visible on the floor plans because it's almost off the page because the floor plans are focused on the the four corners of the building,
but yes, the patio is still shown um in that in that area sort of at the corner um of the the driveways there as they meet. >> Okay, thanks. Um, and then we have had a couple letters um from neighbors complaining
about um slope issues. >> Yes. >> Um, could you address that? >> I can. And so I can give an overview and then because everything I'm telling you is going to be secondhand, I can let you hear from Mr. Afar who can report sort
of the firsthand details because he was personally involved. But um and certainly I think Mr. Blansky was involved as well and can can probably fill in some of the gaps. Um as I understand it, there uh was a concern expressed by the uh owner or an owner of the immediately adjacent property at 9
Fletcher Street. Uh my understanding is that that property is a condominium association comprised of a number of units. Uh the concern that was raised related to um the slope uh between that property uh which is at a higher elevation than the adjacent parking lot,
our adjacent parking lot um and storm water issues as it relates to that slope. Um this was not necessarily a surprise to us that this was raised as an issue because we knew that there were some uh erosion and storm water issues in this corner of the site. In fact, so much so that as we began to do um some
of the preparatory work for development uh of the already permitted components of this property, we found that the portion of the parking lot that you see on your screen, sort of the southeasterly portion of that prop property, uh the parking lot at right bottom right hand corner, uh was under a
couple of inches of of dirt and and uh sand and silt um that had run off down the slope and covered portions of the the pavement. Um, as I understand it, that's a consequence of for many years the storm water that has accumulated on the nine, I think it's actually five,
seven and nine Fletcher Street property, the condominium property, um, has, uh, has, uh, sheet flowed onto our property. In fact, more than sheet flowed, there's actually an outlet within the slope, uh, taking storm water from that adjacent property and and placing it or dumping it onto our property. As I understand
it, I'm not aware of any existing easement that allows that to happen, but it's a condition that has existed for for some time and frankly long be long before my client acquired the property. Um, so it was brought to our attention that there was some concern about the the slope and storm water further
degrading that slope uh and more specifically about the dangers associated with use of the 579 Fletcher Street property uh in close proximity by vehicles in particular in close proximity to that drop off. And so in rather short order, uh, Mr. Ashar
prepared a plan. Uh, in fact, a copy of that plan is one of the linked documents that, uh, was included on your agenda. It was a plan that proposed a guardrail that would be placed on our property, but along the boundary in very close proximity to the boundary. Uh, as well as extending, um, the uh, I'll call it
the flat area. I think it was proposed to be approximately a 2% grade extending it a bit beyond the proposed location of that uh of that guard rail after which the property would then slope down as it has to uh to the proper to the parking lot that is a part of the subject
property uh and then that slope would subsequently be stabilized. Um that um that plan was submitted to the town as I understand it. The plan was reviewed. We got the go-ahhead to proceed um and uh that work was done in fairly short order. So the guardrail has been installed. uh that slope has been I will
say partially stabilized and what I say by that is as you know slopes don't stabilize overnight and so uh my understanding is that there's some matting on the slope at current >> shrubs >> matting and shrubs um but it is uh it is mid-occtober so um the the shrubs and and greenery are not going to grow
overnight but the objective would be that that slope over a period of time will will stabilize um and of course the the guardrail will exist uh long term to provide for safety >> um in you know, in terms of the outlet on the property, in terms of future storm water, um you know, it may have to
be that we continue to monitor the situation. If we find there to be continued problems with respect to the use of our parking lot, um we're going to have to address them. But, um again, the only point that I suppose I would make for the board's benefit is it's not our storm water. So it it presents a bit
of a challenge in the sense that, you know, yes, anything that falls onto the slope and ends up in our parking lot is is is our storm water, but anything that ends up on the slope because it's it's uh via an outlet onto our property from adjacent property or because it's sheep flowing onto our property uh is not our
storm water, but it's a problem nonetheless that needs to be dealt with. So uh I've had some and I'm having ongoing discussions with my clients about um you know ways to ways to address that. But um in terms of the immediate concern that was raised by the utter in that letter you're referring to uh we think that we've uh we've
addressed it um and it is continuing to be addressed through the the longer term stabilization of the the slope and that corner of the property. >> Okay. >> Anything you want to add to that? >> Yes please. >> As you know it was raining today and day before yesterday and rather
especially if the rain was heavy. So in order to avoid more erosion and wash off of the new backfield that we did on the slope and the mat that we laid and the shrubs, you can see the shrubs actually that we placed in. We created a soil on
our property to manage to control the runoff from the abuters up above the slope and bring it onto our site and towards one of our closest catch basin. So in order to avoid the wash off and
and further further erosion. So uh um it it was an issue which was not really created as a result of any activities on the subject property. But whatever the reason might
be, we tried in a short period of time to address the issue and control this runoff. you know, especially from the drainage outlet that comes out off of their catch basin up top. They have a catch basin right in the middle. It's a low point
and collects and dumps on the subject property and trying to make that concentrated through a soil that we created and bring it onto our system. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Um,
any other thoughts on that, Evan? I would just say that um as far as the building commissioner is concerned, Joseé Negron, the vehicle safety barrier issue is resolved. Okay. That was the only issue that he was um focused on. >> Okay. Thanks.
>> All right. Um there is a traffic study in here. Um do board members think we need a peer review on it? Can I just ask in how many apartment units are going into this? >> 15.
>> Okay. Cuz the board of health said 14. Something else. I thought I saw 20. I'm listening 15. So, I just wanted to make sure I had the numbers right. >> Correct. It's 15. It's two two studio units, uh 12 two-bedroom units and one threebedroom unit. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And if I could, Mr. Chair, just briefly
regarding the the traffic study, it's it's actually less of a study and more of a a memorandum or assessment. It's not not a full traffic study, of course, just judging by its length. Um, you know, the objective here was to highlight that, you know, we we have a site that has been vetted before that has two hotels and an adult daycare.
We're adding a 17,800 square foot restaurant and 15 apartments. So, yes, there will be some additional traffic. Um, but the traffic is uh hesitate to use the word negligible because it sounds like I'm downplaying it, but it's it's not significant in scope in in terms of uh comparison to the overall
use of the site or use of adjacent property. So, um, I guess I'll leave you with that. >> I'm not I don't think we need your view or anything. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
All right. Um, so I think at this point, um, the members have any other comments or questions? So I think at this point we would be looking for um updated uh plans uh a
discussion with the school committee uh school department um about the bus stop. Um I think the uh looking at the snow storage again to protect the
uh smaller areas of landscape buffer. >> Any other thoughts? >> Should have an itemized landscape plan. >> Yeah, I was thinking that too. >> Or updated landscape plan focusing on the slopes. Anything else?
>> All right. Um, do you think that would be doable by our next meeting? >> It may be. I just want to be certain that I can be available. When is your When is your next meeting? >> November 12th. >> November 12th. And I think we do have another one. Do
we have 26? >> Yeah, November 26th. >> Is that the week before Thanksgiving or is that after Thanksgiving? >> I don't know. >> Wednesday before Thanksgiving. >> Is it the Wednesday before Thanksgiving? >> Thanksgiving is the 27th. Yeah. Before Thanksgiving,
>> we're not having it on. >> So, it's likely we'll have um one in November and one in December because >> the second December one is Christmas Eve, too. >> Yes. So, my my client tells me that he thinks he can get that additional work done between now and November 12th.
Okay. What I'll tell you is we won't waste your time if we're not ready. We'll submit a continuance request in advance. Okay. Um but I'm available as well. So, if we could post if we could continue the matter to the 12th, we'll we'll hope to have updated plans to you. Um how far in advance do you prefer those plans be submitted prior to your
meeting? ideally the Wednesday before um at the very latest the Thursday so that we can get it to the board members on the Friday to review it over the weekend. >> Okay, we can do that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, I will entertain a motion.
>> Well, do we need to uh open the public hearing at all? >> Oh, yeah. We do need public input. Sorry. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Um at this point, I will take any public comment. Seeing none, I will take a motion. >> I move to continue to the 12th of
November. Is it was it the 12th of November? >> Yeah. >> Second. I'll second it. >> Okay. Motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor? >> Unanimous. Thank you. Thank you for your time tonight. All right. I have received a request since the 195
191 195 Riverneck Road and uh 133 Princeton Street has many of the same players. Um and I've had a request to take 133 Princeton Street first. Um
so we will do that one next. Uh Mr. Chairman, members of the board, good evening. Uh Douglas Bashain from Finner and Nicholson representing the applicant. Uh you will recall when we were last before the board, we were here on a request for a modification
to address changes to the building. Um some of which were done as you know prior to our modification request and others uh fortunately we were are you know seeking the modification approval
prior to the changes being made. Um and as we explained um um I didn't have an excuse for that when it first came. um we weren't made aware, myself and a Katie weren't made aware of it until um there was a problem um and
so we jumped back in. So the board had a requested that the applicant and his development team, his contractor, his architect um appear before the board so that you could ask them the questions you want and and so they're here this
evening and would like to make a statement to you and address your questions and whatnot. So, what I'd like to do is let them speak. Um, and then when you've been through that, um, um, I will come back. Operatia and I'll come
back up and, uh, go through the the actual physical modifications that we're discussing. But, uh, with that, I'd like to, uh, Pete, can you come up? And, uh, >> good evening, member of the board and Mr. Chairman. Um, so my name is Vad
Noan, but most of the people refer me to as we because it's easier. And I am a resident of the North Chams and the owners of the Champs Wine Spirit. I am very excited to have the building
to build a store closer to my home, closer to closer to home. and to be able to contribute to the community. I'd like to thanks the town and the community for their support
and the opportunity to create a store that better serves our needs. I'm here to I'm here today to apologize to the planning board for making changes
to the original design of the building without informing the committees. It was never my intention to disrespect anyone or hide this information from from you.
I modifies the design to ensure practicality and functional operation. I did this because I was unaware of the necessary protocol.
I hope you understand. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. will speak for you guys. >> Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board, Mr. Balansky. I appreciate you
having me here. First of all, I wanted to say um that uh it's it's exciting and I'm grateful to be the general contractor MTL Construction for Mr. afternoon and uh to be working with the town of of
Chelmsford. All the officials have been very gracious in accepting our, you know, our uh presence in the town. And I want to assure you that it was not our intention to ignore the plans and the approved plans by the planning board and
that once we became aware of the um miscommunication, we stopped all work on the elements that were not approved in the original plans. So, um, we appreciate I appreciate the opportunity to work in the town of
Chsford and, uh, and for my client, Mr. New and, uh, you know, again, I'm here to apologize that, you know, we deviated from the approved plans. >> Thank you. >> Uh, good evening everyone. Katie Enright
with Howard Stein Hudson. Um, I want to let you know also Jim Dokus, our architect, is here tonight. um if you'd like more of a walk through as to the changes of the different um facades on the building and the inclusion of the rooftop area. Um as it relates to the
site plan since we were here last time, we've again continued to work with the architect and the and the builder and the developer regarding um the architectural elevations to continue to refine them to make sure that what you see before you today um is what's indeed
being built. So, there's been a couple of small modifications since we were here previously. Um, some of them relate to the frontage of the building um as it relates to some overhangs um and some plantings. So, I'm going to
just come if you could go to the landscape plan more sheets. One more. So, here along the front of the building, um there's two awnings. Um one
awning here over these parking spots that comes out in front of the building to allow for loading and unloading. And then there's additional awning across the front of the building, which is a different um frontage element that we had proposed previously that comes out
here over the sidewalk to protect people on the sidewalk. I was concerned about the plantings here at the last meeting. We had taken those out, but since then we've looked at the height of the balcony, which I believe is about 10 or 11 feet along the front of the sidewalk, and talked to the landscape architect
about the choices, and he said they'll be fine along the front of the building. So, we were able to put that landscaping back. So, the awnings that were showing on the site plan that you have before you um are what is being built out there in the field. And then if you can just scroll back to the layout materials
plan. Um MTL Construction let us know um last week that this isn't the newest plan actually. Can you go to the agenda? >> I don't know if we have it. >> Yeah. That modified site plan at the
bottom. Yep. And then in this area here, so we're having trouble getting gas. Um so the um developer working with the contractor, um they would like the store to be open this fall in time for Thanksgiving if
possible. Um the latest we've heard on gas is spring of next year, which is horrible for a property owner looking to open a business. So, we've been working with the contractor um and a propane supplier to create a
temporary situation in the back parking lot within three parking spaces. Again, it's only temporary to allow for propane tanks to sit um here. We've worked with the gas company to make sure the pad dimensions and the ballard locations are correct and the sizing. um and they'd be
bringing the gas line from the back of the building to the to the gas um entrance point of the building and that would be a temporary situation until we can get hooked up to the gas that's in the street. Um so we've modified the plan to show this temporary situation
here. Those three parking spaces will be put back as soon as that temporary situation goes away. And I think you'll remember at the last um couple of meetings what we spoke about in relationship to the parking is because we've eliminated that basement floor
um we are better parked than we were as far as the original approval. So we're not concerned about those three spaces and again it's just a temporary situation. Um if you'd like some more information I can certainly have Jim come up. I don't want to waste the sports time. I know we have a a
complicated and long agenda. So, um, be happy to have Jim come up and talk a little bit more about, um, the different facades of the building. I think Evan, if you can pull them up. >> I'll just have maybe have Jim come up briefly. >> Yeah, if you could, that'd be good.
>> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Jim Jokus with Jazokus Architecture Incorporated. Uh, a lot of the changes on the exterior were um fairly obvious. I guess let's see. >> There's a mic right above you, right in
front of that. So, you're you can stand there. Yep. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, the um the the biggest thing internally was that the basement was eliminated. So, a lot of the stuff got pushed up. Things got pushed up even
further. uh the uh exterior elements. Uh the brick stayed the brick, but we carried in a new um soldier courses and over the windows versus maybe a steel header, a couple of awnings. A lot of
the window schemes have been changed. The awning in the front also came into play when um the owner V was very concerned about his customers being able to park their vehicles and have his
employees wheel out on dollies and load up the back of the uh vehicle uh with boxes of wine or whatever inclement weather. Like today was a perfect example of that would uh be very functional for that uh need. So, I'd be
happy to address any other questions or concerns, but that's basically the gist of it. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> We'll go around Marcy. >> Nothing right at the moment, but I might come back to it. >> Okay. Dear Drew, >> I'm okay.
>> Anita, >> so I've got a couple questions. My first question, I still don't understand how like where the where we dropped the ball about coming back to the town for modification. Like I understand that you
guys didn't mean to do that, but I like to understand what happened um so we can avoid this in the future. >> Was it like someone came and asked for we don't we changed our mind then we decided to just like where did you guys
break down I guess? Well, I I we've obviously Katie and I have had a number of conversations with the team here to try and figure that out and it it's it's not as I guess complicated as one might think. Um in in one instance, let's
start with the um awnings. Um V again, you know, thought about it and said, "Geez, you know, I really would like to have these these awnings done." So he called Jim said, "Jim, I
need you to design a drawing." And they did. And then Jim would pass that on to to Bob. And Bob said, "Oh, okay." You know, we did it. Um and and and again like with the windows, you know, the
more as the building was going up and V was looking at it and decided, you know, to have all those windows to the back of the uh registers as we talked about before, you know, he said it would make much more sense to do it this way. And
it and it seemed like it was just one what appeared to be one minor modification at a time. And yet, you know, V didn't understand that changes like that to the building, as
mod as modest as they may seem to him, you know, we're just changing a window. Why would you know, we're moving windows? We're putting an awning. Um, you know, again, I think the process was that as each change and thought came up,
you know, the actual construction team and the design team would would design it and build it. And quite frankly, none of them uh took the opportunity, Anita, to you know, you're asking how did it happen? Quite frankly, none of them took the
time to think. again you know I don't think V fully understood modifications required to come back um and obviously the developer and the the the architect didn't didn't
raise that question so nobody raised the question as we mentioned before this was long after Katie and I who probably among the team knew best not to do anything different without coming in and yet we you know there was no indication
that there were problems. Um, you know, they were working with um building inspector. Um, you know, and and he saw no building code problems with any of that until such time as they made some
major modifications. And then he said, "Wait a minute. You guys have now gone beyond the pale of, you know, minor site modifications or little, you know, construction changes. you've now eliminated a basement, you know, you've
you've added some height to the building. And that's when he issued cease and desist. And that's when my client did pick up the phone and called Katie and I and said, "Hey, you know, we we did something we weren't supposed to
do." Anita, in terms of, you know, I I I I honestly believe this was not done intentionally or as B said, as a way to hide something from you because I mean, no one could ever think that because
you've got a building inspector who came out regularly, checked to make sure that things were going right, and as soon as he saw they had deviated, he pulled the plug. So, no one would ever think, "Hey, we can get away with this," you know. So again, I don't think it was malicious. I
don't think it was intentional. Um, and you you questioned, you know, you guys want to understand how this happens. And I know it's been happening far more than you would want, you know, recently in town. I've heard of other projects that have sort of gone the same route and
very possibly they gave you the same answers we are. and and I think it it I think it is a function of uh miscommunication on our part as a development team. Um I have certainly learned a lesson that
from now on when I get something approved and and I hand it over to the the builder and stuff. I'm going to make sure everyone in the team knows. do not put a nail in the wrong place until you ask us or you know go to the town to say
is this the kind of change we could make and I think but for that not being drilled into people's heads and I don't just mean us I mean all of the projects I mean we all see it right you see it it's right in the decision if you're going to make a
change you got to come back right we even make the developers and the architects and the clients lead those decisions, but I just don't know if that is necessarily the best way to to, you
know, provide them that notice and warning. Like I said, from a personal note, I've made it a habit now of telling anybody everybody follow your plans or, you know, call us before you do anything wrong. But obviously that
hasn't been enough or we haven't done it enough. So again, maybe as the permitting attorney that got the permits, I can take some blame for that and I've learned a lesson to make sure that my clients are better educated,
you know, in this. But um again, I I can only say I I can't believe for a minute any of this was intentionally done to hide or get away with anything because no one could ever think that way when you've got, you know, regular
inspections. We're going to have to have a sign off on the asbuilt. I mean, you know, there's no hiding stuff like this. They just didn't think it was an issue. So that's Anita, the best, you know, that I can come up with. And again, I know you guys have dealt with this on
other projects and perhaps you've heard the same thing, but at the end of the day, it is our mistake and you know, we need to uh not only address it here, but be sure it never happens again. >> Appreciate that. My next question is,
did I thought the last time you guys were here, I heard that there would be some did the use change? Like, are we doing some distribution or warehousing? No, this was always so there was always one floor that was basically dedicated
to storage. And so essentially the top floor is dedicated to storage. Not the top top floor now, the area that we're looking at doing tastings, but the second floor and the basement were always considered to be storage. And it's not for distribution. It's for purchase. It's for V to have supply for
his store. >> It's going to be just retail. >> Retail. >> Retail. Okay. We're not We're not >> No, there's it's not a distribution facility for >> I thought you mentioned something about um supplying other like restaurants and stuff like that. >> No,
>> no, last time you were here or something. Not necessarily distribution, but like you were supplying. >> No, maybe they would be invited to the tasting to try out new alcohols. I don't remember that being talked about though, but yes, there is significant storage on the site, but it's for use for B and his
retail. Yes. Anything else? >> Okay, John, >> just a question on the temporary propane. Did you say that would be was used for temporary heating during the winter season or was that for another use? I just didn't catch the use. >> Yeah, that's for just the entire gas use
for the building. Is it just heating? >> I'll let Bob come up. >> The Mr. chair and and members of the board. The intention of this is to substitute for national grid supply, natural gas supply, which we applied for
in March of this p of this year. Uh because of the upcoming highway moratorum on November 15th, it's highly unlikely we're going to have natural gas even though we're ready to >> start heating the building. So, this is
a substitute. It is temporary. We still expect uh National Grid to provide gas or national grid. Yeah. Um but needless to say, the roads open April 15th and if it's cold winter, we've got to have
heat. So that's the intent of that. But it will come out eventually. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? >> No. Okay, >> Joel, Mike, >> uh just I I presume the the fire department will get their say on the propane tanks. >> Yes.
>> Okay. I had a couple questions. Um I noticed this on the other one the last plans too. There's a truck lane. I wasn't involved in the original design. So I'm just curious what the truck lane
in the back is for. Is that for loading and unloading or is that for turning radius? >> Turning radius. >> Okay. >> Yep. So yeah, we need this area to have nobody park there so that the >> Okay, that's what I thought. >> Okay. And then the other thing I noticed
on the renderings that we saw in September compared to the renderings we're seeing here, there's even a more of a decrease in windows on three of the sides of the buildings.
And I'm a little bit concerned about that because we raised the objection to the decrease in windows at the last meeting. And if you look at the if you compare the
architectural plans of that we're seeing tonight compared to the ones that were presented in August or September. Um it's still a de it's yet another decrease in windows. >> Yeah, I I was going to bring it up
after, but like I drove by this the other day. I'm not a big fan of this building. like it I don't find it very attractive and nor do I find it that it adds value to the neighborhood. I think having the more of the windows makes it more inviting. It looks like a that's
why I was questioning the distribution or like what the intent of this building was supposed to be because it feels more like a warehouse like this without the windows. in the eye of >> the Yeah. Um yeah, aesthetics definitely
is the eye of the beholder. Uh the uh portion of the storage was down in the basement. Uh like most products don't like sunlight. That's uh why a lot of uh liquor products are stored in not
clear bottles but in a dark bottle. Uh so the products were originally supposed to be all in the basement. Now the structure had to be beefed up significantly to bring the product stored into the second floor. The
elevator is not just your typical elevator. It's a serious elevator that can handle pallet jacks of these uh volumes of liquid to be transferred to the second floor and hence a lot of the windows went away because it's just
storage >> but in the front it's I thought it's a store >> um >> on the first floor >> second floor in the front of the front explain you had also mentioned the steel >> yes the the structure actual engineer
designed the steel system. Um, and it had a cross bracing system to stabilize the structure that runs in the front of the building. There's um I had little control over that, but when you have a giant X crossing through the middle of
your facade, you eliminate the windows or you're staring at a giant steel X. Is there a way to make faux windows or panel like material that look like windows to break up some of
the significant brick on that facade >> especially facing the street like >> something windows are those elements? >> Yes. Yeah, those are um
Yes, the can we? Of course. Um I don't know how the client wants to do that. Um are you amendable to >> Yeah, sure. Yeah.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the board. So, in answer to your question, um we can do anything. Um but the practical for a practical uh matter um what you're seeing right now when you drive by it is missing some of the
elements that I think enhanced the design in particular the canopy along the front. So, we've stopped construction of that because it wasn't part of the approved original approval. Um, with regards to the other windows,
um, if I may, to Jim's point, there's a structural bracing here that was mandated by the increase in the loading on the second floor, as is the case on this sidewall. So, um, as you probably know, this faces
the car dealership. Um, and there's really no visibility at this back back portion of or this side portion of the building from the street. This is what's visible. Getting back to this portion, these windows here happen to be located
where the bathrooms were and appropriately we reduced the size of the windows so that uh, you know, the viewing in there wasn't wasn't large. The other consideration is that the building code requires a
certain height above the finished floor in order for so people won't fall through the windows. So you've seen some of the windows get smaller as a result of that. You have to have a a three-foot um threshold if you will at the windows
in order to meet the building code. Uh with regards to full windows, I wasn't being facitious, but we can put full windows in. Sure. Um they they uh it will require some reconfiguration of the
wreck to meet these conditions here. It would be a lot easier if we didn't have to put a a roll locker or a roll lock brick course above the windows, but we certainly could make something appear the same as those windows if you if you
like. >> Yeah. And can't you just re since it's not done, can't we just put the b like reconfigure the layout the bathrooms and put the night bigger windows for the storefront up front? I would think you would want to showcase that you're a store so people know that. Like it just doesn't make like it doesn't look like a
store to me. It looks like a brick >> storage facility. >> Storage. It looks like a warehouse. Sorry. And you're asking us to bend over backwards for your mistake. I'm not. But
>> the whole team is >> the whole team is. But let's be clear when you guys made these modifications all along and I would have expected minimum the developer to know that if you're making you're doing up plans because you're making these changes, you're talking to engineers. Someone you
somewhere along the line should have had the experience to say, "Hey, we needed to go in front of the planning board before we spend a dollar doing this." So, you know, I don't mean to be difficult here, but I I really don't like a
warehouse on Princeton Street. If this is a store, let's make it look like a store and make it attractive. It only would help your client for attracting business. Um, I guess what I've heard is that we are,
you know, we can do something. We can make some changes to make it look better. Um, I with the exception of the windows, I think they've actually done a good job of breaking up the massing and scaling
of the front of the building. I like the tower. I think it is is attractive. I think the awning will really make a big difference in eliminating that brick thing, but how would you like us to effectuate
proposed changes? Would you like us to come back to you with a a front a newly designed not designed but a I well I guess designed front facade that would show you how we could put these
faux windows or perhaps some other kind of architectural something that you know might help with the concerns of masking and scaling. Is that what I mean? They're they're asking us to make a a a showing of of what we might be able to
do. I um yeah, I think that's at least what I'm hearing is that it would be good for you to come back with a proposal for some improvements. Um to maybe they're not actual windows now, but something to
make it look more like the approved um designs. I'm also looking at Google Maps and I am noticing that that front side is completely visible from Princeton Street. The back of that
building is not, but that corner is and it looks like a solid brick wall. Um, so I think >> Can we go back to that side plan just so I can articulate? >> There's also s sorry there's also significant landscaping that's proposed
on that side and now along the front too. So, I just want to bring that up also that you're looking today at bare soil adjacent to the building and they'll be the intention is to have that on along the front of the building to have plantings
that will grow along the frontage and cars positioned along the front edge of the building and then along the side of the building. We have plans along the entire property line. So, as far as this side goes, and I'm just trying to think of what you're
asking us, you know, originally we had two windows up above, full-size windows, two full-size windows down here. So, in my mind, and again, I'm I can't commit for my client, but I want to understand how I'm going to explain to them what
you would like to see. So, I want to make sure I understand it. Clearly some kind of window, you know, to recreate this look, especially out on the outer point of that side would help. Um I I also think,
you know, maybe bringing this awning back in on that corner would really bring that whole corner together. >> Yeah, because that front corner is part of the storefront, right? Um, and so >> I mean I don't think we're technically missing windows here other than the fact
that we had to reduce those size because it's now a storage area. But I mean specifically with respect to this, it would seem to me that if we could potentially bring the awning back around and put some kind of um faux windows that would that would
recreate this. Although it's even nicer because I think this is a much better design than that. as far as along here. And again, because it is is um storage and we really don't want light coming in. I I suspect this
might be an area where we could fill this in. Maybe not to that density, but you know, the smaller window, you know, the faux windows here, because if we can make them look like that, the fact that they're not windows is
it doesn't matter. Yeah. >> Because you they look like windows. So, I I think we'd like an opportunity to go back and and bring you a, you know, an an attempt or a proposal to try and address that. >> Okay. >> Does that make sense to you?
>> I did have one other question. >> Sure. >> The third floor. >> Mhm. >> Has that design changed since we were last shown anything? >> Right. We haven't changed that design of the very top since
>> because this if you look at the designs here >> um it doesn't show the fence railing anymore. Um, and
if you go to the next link, >> that rendering seems like it's set further back or not at the edge. It looks very different than the last rendering.
>> The what? The rear elevation or this left side? >> Both. >> Okay. Okay. Well, we'll we're going to have to I have to sit down with people. >> I can speak to that. >> Um Mr. Chair, um
the previous plan um was the one of the issues um that was raised by Mr. Negron as not in compliance with the previously approved plans. So what what you're seeing in this this plan here is
something that we've constructed in order to comply again with building code. Um there's a the elevator vestibules here and building code requires roof access. We have a stairwell there. So this the current structure is um what was being shown on
the new drawings. The intended structure is the one with the balcony. However, we stopped, you know, constructing that portion of it because of the the cease and assist order. >> So, what is being proposed?
>> Uh, well, I think I believe what's being proposed was the previous plan showing the railings and the and the uh the penthouse area. >> Okay. >> At a lower elevation. >> So, we probably need a finalized set. So
whatever is being proposed for that needs to be shown. >> If you look here, this looks very different than the current plans. >> Correct? Yeah. Yeah. >> So whatever the design is, that is
>> we got to bring you plans that show our attempts to restore some windows and what the true final final final >> plan is. We appreciate the opportunity to do that. >> One more question. Are you intending to
So, are we still doing the tasting area up on the rooftop? Is that still the intent? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Does that need a different um liquor license with the state if you plan on doing something like that? >> We discussed that at the Well, we discussed at the last meeting that we
thought Evan had said that they didn't want to see us until after we had planning board approval. >> No, for a modification to the liquor license. I just don't want someone to forget and you guys start your business um and you're doing something up there that you guys don't go and get your I just wasn't sure. I thought someone had
said that you actually need a different type of license for that. So, I just want to make sure you're aware of it. >> If that's the case and you don't, you know, we don't have another oops like the building. >> No. And that would be an oops before the
alcohol beverage commission. And >> that would be a big oops. That would be a major problem. >> Yep. Oops. >> Practically a loss of your license, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Any other questions, concerns, topics?
>> Okay. >> Can we stuff this in on the 12th? >> Um >> I I would just like to say I feel completely muddy about what's happening on the top floor. >> Yeah, I'm a little >> That's why >> we'll give you a present. We come in and give you a presentation. I know you're hot pressed and if I don't have the
final plans in front of me, I don't want to present anything. >> Okay. All right. Perfect. Thanks. >> This is a public hearing, so I do want to open it up to the public for any comment. >> There being none, um would two weeks be
enough? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Be here. >> I will take a motion. >> Move to continue to the 12th. >> I'll second. Motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor? >> I. Unanimous. Thank you everyone.
>> All right. Next on the agenda, >> Rubberneck Road. 191 195 River Verneck Road. >> Let me just do a quick introduction. >> Dr. Duchain representing the applicant. Just like to introduce Carrie Pike. Um we I assume we're going to jump right
back into the finalization of traffic and then once we finish that then I'll come back and have a few things. But with that see you. >> Thanks Doug. Good evening. Carrie Pike with Howardstein Hudson. Um I have a few
slides. We um prepared some additional materials based on the chair's request at the last meeting. Um and knowing that we are pressed for time, I'm going to kind of skip ahead. I do have a site plan here in case we need it. Um keep going, Evan, please.
Um just a reminder of the timeline. We submitted the traffic impact study with the application in June and uh we were responded to the initial peerreview comments the last time. I'm not going to spend again a lot of time to try to be mindful of how much time we have to talk to you tonight. Uh, next one, please,
Evan. Um, so the new items that you asked about the last time were about truck traffic, pedestrian safety, and school buses, sidewalk improvements, and the intersection with Carlile, and it's actually Carile Street, I just noticed.
Um, so to start with truck traffic, um, this is our existing count data. So on the top three lines is the data that we collected for Riverneck Road. And so you can see this was a Thursday, Friday, Saturday count. Um so it ranges from 2 and a half to 3.1%
trucks on Riverneck Road on a weekday. So on a Thursday and a Friday. Um less as you might expect on a Saturday. We also did those same counts at 15 Progress Street and also at West Drive in Tingsboro. Um you might notice Progress Street is significantly higher.
Um, some of that is, I think, just the numbers, the volume in general. It's that if you add one to one, you get a 100% increase thing. Um, next please, Evan. And that those numbers are pretty typical if um, Riverneck Road in terms
of truck percentage. Um, and then looking at our trip generation truck estimates, this is just trucks. Um, you can see the middle column is the IT numbers, so about 22 daily. If we use the trip um the trip generation based on
the WestTech counts that we did, we get similar numbers. And so that's based on the 37,800 foot u plan for this project on the right. Um then moving on to Riverneck Road and to safety um on
Riverneck Road specifically related to um first I want to talk about we we collected crash data. This is Mass DOT's crash data. 25 crashes from 2017 to the current time. So average of three per year. Of those 18 were single vehicle
crashes. Um and in the reports we saw failure to keep in proper lane, running off road, distracted in attention, physical impairment, reckless driving. Um none of those crashes involved what we call the vulnerable roadway users, so pedestrians or cyclists. And there were
no head-on collisions in those crashes. Um, and you can see the the on the side is more detail just about surface weather, crash type, lighting. Most of them were during the daylight. Most of them were on in clear conditions. Next, please, Evan. Um, we also did take
a look, we got information from the school department about the school bus stops. So, you can see those plotted here on the map. the site is roughly in the middle of the map um with um we've got the groups for um the public buses so one through nine
and then the elementary only buses are lettered in green so you can see we've got a fair amount on either side of the site and I'm going to talk about some um potential mitigation related to those in a moment um just a reminder too that we do have the Mass General law that
requires folks to stop when the school bus is stopped and if lights are flashing, uh, stop signs out. Um, we did review the curves on Riverneck Road using some record plans that the town had available as well as aerial photos to confirm the distance, the
available width on Riverneck Road at those curves. We sent two folks out to take measurements. So, we measured each curve, beginning of the curve, middle of the curve, end of the curve. Um, and we prepared a series of diagrams. Those are in the packet that um we submitted on
Friday. Um we did look at five different vehicles. We looked at a Chumsford firet truck, a school bus, a single unit truck, a semi-tractor trailer, and a widebody wider bodied pickup. So something like a duly dual wheel pickup
truck. Um we didn't see any issues with vehicles are able to stay in their lanes with again we took those measurements in the field to confirm and then using our our um tech tools are able to run those different vehicles. So no issues there.
With respect to sidewalks, we did um talk more to DPW. We understand you have a sidewalk prioritization plan that was developed in 2023. The top two priorities on that list are Westford Street and Riverneck Road is number two. Um, we understand that's going to take
multi-year, multi- construction seasons. Um, there are on Riverneck Road in specific, there are rightaway challenges, there are trees, utility poles, etc. that are all going to have to be deal dealt with um in order to put the sidewalks in. Um, potentially
u also that plan would include RFBs, rectangular rapid flashing beacons. It's a tongue tangler. Um, for safer crossings as well. Um, last time we showed you this concept design for Riverneck Road and Carile
Street. Um, that has the flashing stop signs with the placards that say cross traffic does not stop. Also actually painting the cross line, the cross uh the stop lines rather and the word stop on Riverneck Road as well as installing a crosswalk on the eastern leg. Um what
we also would propose here which was a recommendation um that we made and I think that your peer reviewer will will agree with if you could go to the next one Evan please. Um so here's our mitigation list. The under riverneck and Carile the top four
bullets are things that you saw last time that are on that diagram. The addition is to add the intersection ahead warning signs on Carile Street with the street name plaque beneath to say so it would have the it's a yellow sign with the cross which is the intersection symbol and then underneath
it would say Riverneck Road and put to put reflective yellow tape on the post which just highlights for folks especially at night you know because your lights glare off that tape so you you pay attention a little better to that um to warn the folks on Carlile. Um
we did also go out and check the site distance and the site distance by um Ashtto is adequate. Um but that doesn't mean that there isn't you know still that curve. We can't do anything about the curve of the bridge over 495. So um
that's the suggestion to deal with that. And then um to deal with um Riverneck Road and specifically um you know you have a lot of school bus stops. Obviously you saw them all plotted there on the map. Um, we would propose to
install speed feedback signs. The the project would contribute two of those and we would work with DPW and the police on where they should be located. So, those are the signs that you've probably seen them. They're kind of popped up all over the place now where it tells you how fast you're going and then it also has the speed limit sign
with it. So, and depending on the type you get, they have some that, you know, when you're going over the speed limit, they go slow down, slow down, slow down. and sometimes they have some that give you a smiley face if you're going under the speed limit. So, um we would propose to install two of those along Riverneck
Road. We will provide a contribution which Katie can talk a little more about if um needed for sidewalks along the frontage of the property. And those um also um your peer reviewer suggested some curve warning signs at
the first curve right around Colin Circle, the first curve when you come from Bill Ricker Road. Um that one seems to be um kind of the tightest of the curves. Um so to install some warning signs just reminding people that they do have a curve and to slow down. Okay,
I've talked really fast. I don't know if you want to if you have questions for me or if you want to hear from Mr. Durk next. Yeah, I think we want to hear from people. >> He's in the room. >> Oh, excellent. Welcome.
>> Is this the first time? >> He was on Zoom the last last >> Jeff Jeff prefers to be in person. Correct. >> I I do. I was >> very very much appreciated. >> Sunny, warm Florida last time, but it was warm here as well, so I'm not sure
where was better. Uh but anyways, uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. For the record, Jeffrey Durk with Vanessa Associates, the the peer review consultant for the town. Um, so I think just from the outset, what you've heard from the applicant is they've been very responsive to the comments that we've had uh on both the transportation
analysis, but also the site plan. Um, at this time, the site plan itself, they've addressed all of the comments. Um, if you might recall just quickly in terms of looking at our substantive areas on the plan really dealt with the turning maneuvers at the driveway. So, making sure that the large truck could drive
out without going over the curb. And then importantly, the fire truck as it was maneuvering that as it swings beyond the curb line that there was no um impediments to that aerial portion uh going over the curb line. So, the applicants addressed all of all of those comments. Um, so the site plan is we've
seen it as is responsive. In fact, they've also gone and added electric vehicle charging. So, you'll see that in a number of locations uh within the site, which we think is a positive response to our our comments. Um, so as we left the last planning board hearing, and I think you heard from the applicant, we viewed there were really
five major topics that the board had asked that the applicant go back and undertake some analysis for, and you've heard kind of a summary of that um tonight. I think importantly in looking at all of those contexts, it really dealt with um safety of all roadway users and especially pedestrians along
Riverneck Road. And um going through those, that's really the substance of the majority of those issues. And I think as you've heard the presentation from the applicant, there's just a couple of primary things I wanted to point out with respect to ribbon road. Um the first is you saw all of those bus stops, there's about 15 bus stops um
along that section of roadway. Now, as the applicant has undertaken that analysis, what you see them is looking at it two other things. Um, they seem may seem disongjoined from that, but they're really not. So, truck maneuvering along the roadway, volume of truck, truck maneuvering, and then then
also looking at that crash data along the roadway itself. So, as we're looking at those two things, uh, first starting with the truck activity. So, today there's about 2,900 vehicles on Riverneck Road. About 80 of those vehicles are heavy, what we call heavy commercial vehicles. So you saw it's a
little over, you know, 2 and a half% or thereabouts. Um, the project as you heard is going to add about 20 truck trips to that. Um, so as you heard the traffic engineer mention, as we look at it as a percent increase, you'd see a large percent increase. The volume increase is not large,
but as you look at it in relation to um, I think you saw heard the example of one going to two that it's 100% increase. When you have a small number of vehicles on the roadway, a small increase is more noticeable. So, we just pointed out that there's definitely going to be more noticeable level of truck activity along
that roadway itself. So, that's one thing to I I guess we point out just to keep in mind, but I think importantly as we're looking at the crash data, so the 25 crashes that were reported over that time period, when you look at those crashes, a lot of them, as you heard,
majority of them are run off the road crashes. They're single vehicles driving off the road and striking a fixed roadside object. So the truck traffic plus looking at the crash history gets us to that point of bus stops and lack of sidewalks. So um that's not something
necessarily the project is going to exacerbate those conditions. But it's important going back to that sidewalk prioritization. Having curbing and having sidewalks along that roadway is important because that's going to keep the vehicles within the traveled way because they're going to have a curb to
the extent that they start to drift. they're going to have something that's going to redirect them back into the travel path. Um the second thing is of course the bus stops. Um we have curbing and sidewalks that provide some level of protection for the children that are out there. So um it highlights that need for
those sidewalks. It also speaks to the fact that people are driving too fast. They're driving too fast and they're distracted and that's why people are driving off the road because when we look at that maneuvering analysis that the applicant undertook at the board's request, the vehicles stay in the travel lane. So if you're driving the speed
limit and you're paying attention, you can drive along that road and don't have any issues. Um the alominally as was pointed out, it's driving too fast, driving too fast and being distracted. So when we're looking at measures to address that, um that's what you see the
applicant has done. So we we're looking at traffic calming by way of those radar speed feedback signs. Those will provide some measure of in information back to the motorists at all times of day as to this is the posted speed limit. If you're driving beyond that, the sign's going to tell you that. But importantly,
it's also pointing out to you that that road is not designed for speeds above that speed limit. So, it's trying to moderate the travel speeds on on that roadway. Um the curve warning signs, as I mentioned, that is important. That one curb is very tight um as the trucks are maneuvering through there. The trucks
never cross the center line, but that's the one location where the track the tires actually just go onto the center line. So if you have a truck that's going faster than the speed limit or is larger than what they've analyzed, that truck will potentially go over that center line. So that's why these things
are really needed, moderate speed and inform um motorists of that tight curvature that in that area. Um last thing with respect to riverneck road, as I said, sidewalk, sidewalk, sidewalks. um it's very important that that happen at some point. The methodology the
applicant has undertaken to uh provide a financial contribution um is is an appropriate measure. It's used in a lot of communities where you're um soliciting monies to put into a future sidewalk fund. So it's basically take the frontage of the property times what the town's cost is to install a
sidewalk. That comes up with a contribution and then that gets paid to the town. Uh the other approach is you have each developer build sidewalks but that creates these segments that uh don't go anywhere. So that's really not helpful but the contribution can be helpful. So um the applicant has uh
proposed that a a contribution and the methodology is is appropriate and again it's something that you typically see. Um lastly as it relates to the Carile Road intersection I know we had spoken about this before as we looked at those crash patterns. Um the majority of the crashes um at the intersection are
exactly what was described going over the bridge southbound striking a motorist on Riverneck Road crossing. Um and so when we looked at that it was exactly what the board had pointed out which is is there a sight distance problem coming over that bridge. So, the applicant undertook the sight distance
analysis. There actually isn't a sight distance issue, but it again it goes back to people are going too fast coming over the bridge. Um, coming down to the intersection and that motorist that's coming out on Riverneck Road, first thing is their stop line is too far back. Um, so they start to inch out and then they go and then the car comes over
the hill and they can't react to that. Um, so the applicant has proposed moving those stop lines closer to the intersection so that you'll get those proper sight lines and then the enhanced warning signs that they had mentioned tonight that we had recommended. So we think it's an appropriate package as it
relates to mitigation. Um, so you know, happy to answer any questions you have, but as I said, the applicant has been very responsive even to our suggestions for additional mitigation. >> Okay. Um, I think we do have a couple new letters in the packet.
>> Oh, okay. Sorry. >> That's okay. >> I just We can close up first. >> I just want to touch on the few things that weren't traffic related from the last um meeting. So, um Katie Enray from
Howard Stein Hudson. Um, again, um, we've made, as Jeff mentioned, we made some updates to the site plan based on some previous VI comments. So, that those have been addressed in the site plan. Um, but specifically, we went back and looked at the curb materials and we looked at the curb materials that relate
as it relates to storm water. So, if it's uphill, we're not chang, you know, we're not looking to change the curb out. If it's downhill and it's protecting it's keeping storm water in the site and or keeping the storm water in a flow pattern, we have changed all that curb
to sloped granite. And so, um, we specifically looked at grading and the areas within the site that were essentially uphill next to us andor the water was not flowing uphill in that direction and and made those changes. Um based on that, um we added a crosswalk
to connect the sidewalk at the front building to the sidewalk directed towards Riverneck Road. So we connected it out to the street. Um we revised all the snow storage to be on paved surfaces. So there's two areas that have been um reconfigured on the site so that
when snow is stacked and it melts, it goes through all of the BMPs um prior to being infiltrated. Um and that's pretty much it on the plans. We did, as Jeff mentioned and Carrie Elsa mentioned, we went through the policy as it relates to
um traffic and pedestrian hazard mitigation that the board has a policy for related to the number of parking spaces. And we did a calculation um based on um an estimate of the different classes of vehicles and came up with a
specific mitigation fee of $23,500. Um but then we also looked at the mitigation that we're proposing to construct and proposing to construct that mitigation is approximately $19,000. Um so we're looking to certainly if the
town um would rather us build the $19,000 worth of work and then provide the difference between the 235 and the 19 andor provide the town with the 235 to do the work. Typically, I think we do the mitigation um and then work with the
board on that fee. Um, additionally, there was also a sidewalk fee that both Carrie and Jeff mentioned. Um, based on our frontage, the work that we're already doing as part of the site plan, you'll see we're already providing some curbing along the frontage and the curb opening, we're just under um $40,000 for
contribution to the sidewalk fund. So, on top of that pedestrian and traffic hazard mitigation, um we also have $39,394 that's specific to the sidewalk um fund for the site. Um so with that, um
without any qu if there's no questions on the site plan, immediately I'm going to turn it over to Doug. Hey, I don't I guess I have a quick question for you, Katie. I don't really understand what the parking total, maybe I misunderstood what you just said, but I
don't understand what the parking total and the mitigation total have to do with each other. It doesn't seem like the there's a a cap at the >> So, there's a Well, there is a policy. So, the planning board has a policy that talks about $200 per class one through
three vehicles, right? 500. It used to be 100. That's specifically laid out under the section. that is the amount of mitigation shall be calculated as follows. So that's our mitigation. >> Mitigation for all mitigation for all
safety is that's capped at 23,000. Is that what you're saying? >> That's for create creation of new parking spaces. >> Okay. But the Okay. But the 19,000 is having to do with the safety mitigation which seems
to me completely unrelated to the parking. So the the um the parking space mitigation funds um can be they go into geographic areas. Each part of town has a dedicated account and as uh as you know over time
DPW will come to the board and make a request to use those funds. Mhm. >> Um so those funds are collected based upon new parking spaces um constructed, >> but they're not it's not intended to
cover um required mitigation that a project creates. So what they're what they're what they're explaining or contemplating is is that if you want them uh to physically build the project specific
mitigation, they can do that. They can also make contributions. Um but there's there's sidewalk and then there's uh also general um transportation improvements um that aren't necessarily directly
related to sidewalks, >> right? And it doesn't seem to me that that's the same pot. >> No, it absolutely has been historically used as the same pot. >> Okay. But I don't think that's appropriate. >> Well, let's save that discussion. >> Okay. >> We're not there yet.
>> Well, I think that also just in regards to to mitigation. What we're mitigating is more than just our project. We're mitigating the corridor that everyone uses for existing conditions that are there regardless of if we're built or not, >> right? which wouldn't be impacted by a less impactful project.
>> That's not true. >> I don't want to get into this discussion. >> That's fine. >> Okay. >> There'll be plenty of time for that. Anyone have any specific questions on the plans before we continue? >> Back to the traffic.
>> We will, but I want to take the easy stuff first. >> Okay. >> Um, anyone have any questions on the plans? No. >> All right. I do have one question on the EV charging spot. It looks like it's in
the handicap spot. >> So, it's required to be in the handicap spot if you provide one. The rest are the ones we're providing are EV are to be EV ready. >> Ah, okay. >> There's only one being proposed to be built. And when you propose one, it must be within the handicap spot. So, there
are I believe 10% of the spots have been put aside as EV ready. So, they'll be ready to be installed. >> Got it. >> When needed. >> Okay. Thank you. Why not just >> All right. Um, are you guys all set? Do you have anything else to Oh, yeah.
>> present. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. Well, first of all, I appreciate you asking whether the board had any questions on the plans. And I'm going to ask you whether you have any further questions or requirements from us in terms of submitted data
because you know I'm going to go through this wrapup. >> Well, I think we we still have some we still have some new letters that came in. So, I want to make sure that those get read in. I think we still have a lot
of questions um in terms of information that we're trying to gather so related to the traffic, but I wanted to make sure that we cover the the new letters and we have some additional questions.
>> Oh, by all means, that's why that's what I'm saying. >> What are your additional questions? And so that we can answer them. >> Okay, we'll get there. >> And obviously, you want to read your letters. So, I'll step back. Okay, >> you read the letters, then please ask us questions and then I just have a conlo a
closing statement. >> Oh, yeah, we'll get there. >> Um, I don't believe any new letters were posted to the agenda. Do you have copies of these letters? >> They're links. They're all links in the new documents. >> Oh, just this letter, these letters from DPW from the town's guide. I just wanted
to make sure I checked earlier. There wasn't anything new from >> Oh, no. Not not about our letters. Just department letters. >> Oh, okay. First one's from the board of health. Dear planning board, I'm writing regarding the proposed project by
Commonwealth Construction and Utilities Incorporated to develop an outdoor contractor's yard at 1919 195 Riverneck Road. To date, the board of health has not received any communication from the property owner or developer concerning this project. We respectfully request that the planning board keep us informed
on the status of this project and any developments involving the board of health. Additionally, please advise if coordination is required to ensure compliance with the board of health regulations outlined below. This proposed project is located in the town water resources high aquifer protection zone 2 and the state water resource
protection zone 2 wellhead protection area. Therefore, this project would require approval from the board of health pursuant to the town of Chsford general provisions chapter 2011 board of health article 7 groundwater protection zone. This proposed project shall consistently comply with the town of
Chsford bylaw chapter 63 hazardous materials is designed to ensure comprehensive safeguards against hazardous materials that pose significant current or potential threats to public health welfare safety and the environment guaranteeing their safe management. This proposed project shall
consistently comply with the town of Chumssworth general provisions chapter 2011 board of health article 10 model floor drains. This proposed project has been approved by the town of Chumpsford Department of Public Works to connect to town sewer. If this project plans to have dumpsters on site, then it must meet town homes for general provisions
chapter 2011 board of health article 5 commercial refu dumpster collection licensing and operation respectively Donna Greenwood public health director and then from the DPW from Sheila Joyce they basically say they've performed a review of the number of materials that
they list and then I'll just read the outstanding issues not addressed. During construction, care should be taken to maintain separation of at least 10 feet horizontally from the edge of sewer services to the edge of water services when a hor where a horizontal separation of 10 feet is not practical.
Both services shall be installed closer to each other, but the water service must be 18 in higher than the sewer service per D standards. See Massachusetts water loss chapter 9 section 9.8. When sewers must cross underwater mains, the sewer must be laid
such that the invert of the water line is at at least 18 inches above the crown of the sewer line. See water and sewer crossing for more detailed protocols if these requirements cannot be met. If applicable, areas on site with slopes which exceed 3 to one must have stabilization.
The long-term and perpetual care of the enclosed dumpster and dumpster pad, including the emptying, will be the responsibility of the property owner. Appropriate signage should be included in proximity to infiltration pond prohibiting snow storage. Confirm number of trees to be removed from the RO.
Replacement of new trees within the RO should be indicated on plan set and the applicant will coordinate the tree replacement with the tree warden. >> And then the rest are various comments I think that were in previous letters. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, as I'm looking at
my notes, I realize I have two more questions on the site plan. the um page uh C6 or sorry not C6 C7. Um
it still shows that there's some snow storage near the building if I'm reading that correct. back up on that page. >> Yep. >> Am I missing it? There's here and then
there's here >> and then there's a label with a black dot near the building for snow storage. >> The label just came off the the the label didn't come off the area got >> Oh, okay. >> So, it's just it's just a typo. >> Okay. And then I noticed there was no
stove storage in the front, >> so all of it's going in the back. >> Yep. >> Okay. Thanks. >> All right. Um, does the board have any other questions or comments on the or questions for either of the traffic
reviewers peer either traffic engineer? >> Yeah, I do. >> Okay. So, previously I asked what was the average daily truck traffic and I
thought the answer was 40 something at the time, but uh Mr. Durk made reference to 80. And so I guess I would like to know what is the average daily truck trips currently on
Riverneck Road? Yeah, I mean depending >> so the um it's on one of the slides that I had but yeah the average depending on the day is now I have to do math to uh
let's see yeah so if you take the average of Thursday and Friday so the the multi-unit and single unit combined on Thursday was 72. When you look at Friday, it's uh 90. So the average is 80.
>> Okay. Okay. So, and that's So, we use that as a representation of what the average daily truck traffic is. I mean, there aren't adjustments or things like that that need to be made for that. Okay. So, 80 is a good number to use. Okay. All right. Um, then the only other
question I had was for Mr. Durk >> and um I don't know if you remember, but we first met I think over 20 years ago. >> Yes. >> But um I know you know the answer to this and I know the answer to this too, but I'm
going to ask you anyway. Uh and that is in your judgments as a traffic engineer, you don't consider adverse effects on neighborhoods from track traffic. Is that fair? What? So the way that we consider the adverse impacts is really looking at the
what the abuing land use is. And this is typical if you were to if the town had asked that like a heavy heavy commercial vehicle exclusion study be done and that's the mass DOT has guidelines how to do that. You look at the residential density along that roadway and then the
percent of of truck traffic. And it's a crude way of saying that if the p then I think what they establish is if you have five if the if the truck traffic composition is 5% or more it's considered excessive along a residential roadway and then you can look at
measures to address the truck activity. Um so that's the way that that metric is really done as it relates to to traffic engineering. But there's there's other things to be looked at. We do consider it when we're looking at roadways if there's a disproportionate amount of trucks, but really when we evaluate it
in terms of impacts, it's really looking at the safety of the roadway in terms of maneuverability, but also the speed of traffic on that roadway. So, it it's it's not an exact science in terms of measuring it, but that's how we do it. >> Okay. And you mentioned in your comments
that you said that the increase due to this project would be more noticeable. >> Noticeable. Correct. >> And so what uh what do you mean in terms of what what constitutes more noticeable? >> So if they in terms of the passenger
car, it really has to do with the the size of the vehicles that makes them more noticeable. So you will notice the fact that on a roadway if there's an increase even if there's a small number of additional tractor trailers you will notice that more um just given the size
of those vehicles and how imposing they are in relation to if you had 10 passenger cars going by over the course of the hour increase on the roadway. You probably wouldn't notice that over the course of the hour. If you have 10 trucks going by that aren't there today, that's going to be more noticeable to
you as as a homeowner. If you're just in your yard this time of year at some point raking, uh, you'll know if there's more trucks going by. You're just going to notice that just because of the size of those vehicles, >> right? Okay. Thank you. That's the those are the questions I have. >> Okay. Mike, do you have any?
>> Uh, no, I don't actually. >> Okay. John, >> not at this time. >> Anita, >> I I just want some clarification. You said when you guys went out and looked at the the the did the counts and looked at the trucks, you didn't find
any. How many? So, I guess how many trucks did you see? Was that the 72 and the 90? And you said you didn't see any crossing over the road. >> We were not looking for that. We were strictly counting numbers. Oh, >> okay.
>> That's it's just a it's just a tick tick tick tick tick. It's not a >> Okay. It's literally done by the tubes on the road. They put tubes down because because we want to get speed and that's also how we get the classification. So, it's not a person actually watching the
trucks. >> Okay. >> It's just the a machine counting them. >> Then I thought you said that you I might have misunderstood so I apologize. I thought you said that like earlier that there wasn't um you didn't notice any trucks crossing.
No, what I said is with our analysis, >> okay, >> that we ran the the models of those five different kinds of vehicles, vehicles can all drive safely on all of those curves and stay
on the correct side of the road. >> Okay. So, but you didn't actually observe that. You just did it through your models. The reason why I bring this up, and you probably are not aware, but a couple years ago, we had a big project on Riverneck Road where we had residents in the neighborhood actually put cameras
on people's houses and we've got like I mean, all we could do is call Armen. I'm sure he still has the videos or one of these guys have. I >> have them in my email. >> Yeah, I'm sure we have them in our email. Literally, truck after truck do not stay on their side. So, I know your
models may say that >> they can, but they don't. >> But they don't. >> But I I would argue that that's human error and driver in attention, not a poor design of the road because they physically can, but they
don't. Now, I would also argue that if they if there were another large vehicle or even another car coming in the opposite direction, they would move over because we didn't see head-on crashes in our data in our crash data.
>> Yeah. I think he also had video of the trucks going on people's lawns too though on that if I remember correctly. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure. >> Yeah. No, >> that gets observe it was just machine. >> Anything else? >> Thank you. I have
>> Dedra. >> I guess I just wanted to circle back around to the board of health. Like where does that stand? Do we I mean I want to stay in our lane mostly, but I also just want to know like is that are you guys presenting to them or >> Yeah, we don't typically go to them till after we receive site plan approval.
That's historic. And so we also where we're connected to sewer and we have a fully compliant storm water system. Honestly, there hasn't been an issue in multiple projects prior to this, but we don't go until we have a project typically.
>> Okay. I thought we were changing that >> that is being um considered as part of the gap analysis. >> Those >> meant to be implemented when those um those initial recommendations should be
forthcoming any week now. Anything else to her? >> No. >> Marcy, >> um I'm kind of I sit where Anita sits on this. Like I mean we can look at data analysis and stuff like that and like what a computer says a car can do. Yes, some of it's human error, but some of it, you know, it doesn't matter. I can
drive that street and still cross that center line doing everything I physically can. I've been driving down it while there's trucks coming and I move over so that I avoid a truck and I'm not seeing the truck going down that, you know, at an excessive speed. So even going at at speed limit and
sometimes even slower they, you know, as they're making these curves because Riverneck Road is not the best street to drive on at times, you know. So yeah, a computer can say one thing, but going out and watching and seeing what going on shows you what's really happening there. And that's an issue to be
concerned of because again, you noted on there, there's how many bus stops. I I try not to go that way home because I get I'm a school teacher. I leave when the all the school buses are out there and I sit there after bus stop after bus stop after bus stop after bus stop. It takes me longer to go that way home than
it does to come home on Chumsford Street. So, you know, those are things that yeah, computer can tell you one thing, but being out there and actually watching it, not just saying up a tube out and they counted the number of trucks. Being there, seeing what's going on, watching these drivers is what makes the difference for these neighborhoods.
>> Thank you. Um All right. I have a couple of questions, very few um for the applicant actually based on his um operations.
So the questions I have are um how many heavy machines do you have in your fleet like front loaders, excavators, things like that? >> Uh I would say off the top of my head probably 15. >> 15. Okay. >> We did submit all of that information.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yes, >> just trying to remember some of these numbers. >> And then the >> do you expect to expand in the future >> given the way the world is right now? Um, we're pretty much where we want to
be. I mean, we're comfortable where we are. We've grew slowly over the years, and I mean, I'd like to say yes, but I I I realistically don't think we would. >> Okay. >> But I don't want to say that, you know, that could change. >> And then how do you transport these? I know you said you don't bring them all
back to the the site. Uh they go usually construction site to construction site. How do you transport those things? >> Uh they have trailers. >> The trailers. Okay. Do those trailers come back? >> Yep. >> Okay. So the trailers are those those trailer parking spots on the plants are
what where you would park those trailers. >> Uh correct. Yep. There' be a trailer there uh ranging from >> um you know the bigger machines to like a Bobcat trailer you see a landscaper pulling around. >> Okay. Thank you. Thanks. >> That's it. >> Yeah, no problem.
>> All right. So, at this point, I think I'm going if there are no more questions from the board, I'm going to open it up to the public uh for question for uh comments and then um attorney Dashaine, I'll give you the opportunity to close
and then we can talk about um how we're going to proceed. So, anyone from the public wish to speak? Hi. Uh, Eric Finny, uh, Clark A. Uh, I'm not in a butter, but I'm pretty close.
Uh, I'm on the other side of the, uh, where up used to be a Mercury Computers. We're adjacent to that. Um uh you know I I sat through the uh the warehouse proposal uh that went over like a year.
Um I see some similar concerns that are coming up here. Uh mainly the uh truck truck traffic like not not as much the volume but I think just the presence of more trucks on a windy country road that doesn't have you know adequate sidewalks or safety. Um
so so my concern there is with the heavy truck traffic and safety. Um a couple things. Um I I I know we've you know listened to some of the the traffic studies and uh the uh computer analysis saying that you know vehicles don't go
you know like it can stay in the lane. Um I witness it all the time. I I live on Clark, so my my main route um frequently is from 129 to Clark. So I've got a cu at least two or three curves
there between the 129 and the house. Um last Saturday, my wife and I were going home from 129 to our street and we watched a a truck, I don't remember the exact size of it, it wasn't too big, um cross over on on the curves like a three
times. Um, I don't know what happened after that, but because we turned on our street. Um, but it it does happen. Um, I think most people that live in the in that neighborhood are are are keenly aware of it and take precautions. It's probably why you don't see the uh
accidents. Um, I I did see the note about the um uh you know, town's you know, proposal for sidewalks. you know, um I think it's great to try to make make the neighborhood safer uh for pedestrians because I used to run on
Riverneck Road. I gave that up years ago because I had a couple uh close calls. Um but the if if we have to do um alternating sidewalks that alternate the side of the road, uh that that's going to in my opinion is going to create more
more uh places for crosswalks. And I think crosswalks can be dangerous because not everybody pays attention. Um I do like the the uh the blinking lights like on um Golden Cove. Uh those are great. So if we do end up going down
that road, I would like to see that. Um I have noticed that at least in the 129 to uh Clark A area, I have noticed a little bit of a slowdown in the speed overall. Um, I think that's attributed
since we put the uh the uh speed posted. Um, I appreciate that. Um, I will say that on Mill Road, um, I was a little annoyed, but also like the fact that they have speed humps. Um, that that that's a similar road. It's an old
country road, windy road. Uh, no sidewalks. Um, except for like a few areas. Um, I would hate to see speed dumps on Riverneck Road. Um, especially if we're going to have trucks. >> Um, just be noisy. Um, but anyways, um,
uh, let's see. Uh, hours of operation. Um, just like the warehouse project is a concern of mine. Um, I don't know if you know this is going to be an op a site that's uh, in business on the weekend. Um I in a prior meeting I remember there was some
discussion about trucks leaving the yard at like 5 or between 5 and 6 am or something because they like to get out early to to their job sites. Um and I know the volume you know is expected to not be like a daily occurrence but um you know even on the weekend if it
happens uh irregularly it's it's still annoying. Um Mercury Computers was a good neighbor so far. Our proav is a good neighbor. Uh really don't notice them at all. Um I hope that we can continue with that. Um
let's see. Uh long term I was thinking about like if a contractor yard went there and the you know the the fact that you know there'll be equipment there. Uh one of my concerns is that I really don't want to see it become a junkyard. Um, and I'm not like criticizing, you know,
contractor yards. It's just that, you know, over time you get broken down equipment, maybe you don't have time or the, you know, to to fix the equipment or maybe you leave it there for spare parts. Um, I would hate to see that. Um, that that's a big concern of mine, you
know. Um, uh, lastly, um, just some observations on the site plan. Um, I noticed just scale-wise on the site plan there was a small area for the dumpster. I don't know with the contractor yard, I'm
thinking they might, you know, the contractors might be bringing back uh debris or material that they need to get rid of. I don't know if if that's adequate. I I'm not an expert, but it just seemed kind of small given the size of the property. Um the secondary snow
storage in the rear um adjacent to the you know the back I believe on the other side of the property is like deemed conservation like a wetlands. Um it does slope down according to the topography on the site plan. Um I know there is
sort of like a a grade back towards the middle of the site. I assume that any melt water would would go into those uh uh storm catch basins, I guess. Um but but what's to keep um I was just
curious, is there anything we can do to prevent the snow from being pushed too far back and possibly go go o over the property like a down the hill or possibly melt into the the wetlands? Um any other observation was I don't know if this is common but um the uncovered
material storage I don't know if depending on like is there like you know code for like depending on like what kind of materials you intend to store in those uh storage dividers um do they have to be covered or can they be left open um so those are some things that I
noticed um they they might be fine uh but I just you know posing that question to to you all um thank you >> thank you. >> Uh Sean Campbell, precinct 10 representative. Um good evening, members of the planning board. I have a prepared
speech. I'll try and read it the best I can. Um first, I'd like to sincerely um uh comment uh the I'd like to condemn the applicants team for their comprehensive and professional presentation. They have done an abominal
job presenting this project and they have almost convinced me to like the contractor yard and their commercial base. Uh you know you you Doug and Katie you guys have done you know even the traffic study is been impressive. Uh, I
give a lot of credit to their team and I hope they understand that my feedback this evening is nothing personal. Um, but is rooted in deep concern for the long-term character and public safety of the neighborhood.
I I feel the best to understand the situation, we must roll back the clock to the late 80s and early 90s to discuss Mercury Computer Systems, the company that started in 1981 with only two people who were locals to our
area, including the founder, James. Shortly after starting his business, Mercury computer system moved to L and then right here to Chsford. As his business grew, so did the site and the buildings and things were good. The
company saw massive expansions in the early 2000s. the property managing the company uh the property managing the property management company that that they rented from in discussion with Mercury decided it was best to
acquire more land in case they wanted another building which would be their third on the site. Hence the lot we are discussing tonight which initially had a single family home in the front of it. These locations were never really ideal
for the size of a company such as Mercury, but they just grew into them and it was cheap, which was important in the beginning. I am sure they would have been a lot happier on 129. Mercury was a good neighbor. As it grew,
the neighborhood had little concerns because of the use developing advanced computer systems, schematics, was quiet, clean, and low impact. This five acre parcel was locked and
held exclusively in case Mercury Computer Systems wanted to expand. That's why it was never developed. Um, if Mercury Computer Systems did not call home on these sites, I am certain we
would have single family houses here. Mercury computer system stayed for a long time and in 2017 they caught everybody offguard and selected a new headquarters right off the highway 50 Minute Man Road in
Andover. Today they are a publicly traded company valued over four billion with 2,000 employees. Our neighborhood since their departure has been stuck with this mess and the
leftovers and we are slowly starting to find the right path forward. Now we face a proposing a use that is fundamentally incompatible with the organic growth model and low
impact history of this site. A contractor yard plus multi-tenant bays with heavy trucks, machines is a heavy IIA use, much greater than a computer company making schematics.
I feel this location is questionable IIA because it is on the wrong side of the road with no access to 129. I would strongly suggest this location is less industrial than my home which is
actually on the right side of the road. I think the applicant knows this which is why they submitted a nonsubstantial land plot was done in effect to do a zoning freeze. This tactic permitted
under state law locks the current zoning to prevent the town from making future changes. I believe if this was on 129 they would not have done that. I take this as a clear sign and a
mission of questionable zoning. One more hit. The proposed use fails the most basic test of the neighborhood compatibility due to its high impact on both environmental and quality of life,
public safety and traffic risk. The most critical issue before the board is the public safety on Riverneck Road. This is a twisty, narrow, winding road with no sidewalks. I drive a small car and I
often cross the center line. I have almost been hit walking on the road. I mean, I think we all know we we cross the the center line. Uh, and I I guess I'd like to I didn't write this in my speech, but I'd like to address kind of um why I think people do because the
road is very twisty and it's easier if you're driving to not, you know, make a big swerve to just kind of cross the line. So, I think that's why people do it. Uh, a contractor yard introduces a volume of heavy truck traffic that this road
cannot safely sustain. My submitted pictures show large trucks routinely driving way over the center line. In one photo, a pedestrian is forced to the edge of the pavement because the truck is passing so closely. This is an
unacceptable risk to the people to their lives and their peace and their children playing in this area. Noise pollution and visible blight. this heavy IIA use and outer end
of the zone basically being on the outer end of the IIA zone surrounded by residents. This operation will induce unacceptable noise pollution from heavy machinery, trucks, equipment, particularly early morning hours and weekends. This is an direct assault on
the piece of our neighborhood, our residential neighborhood. Furthermore, an outdoor contractor yard is in visually visually bright. The site of store materials, dumpster, machinery, fleet vehicles will create a major
incompatibility and physical and visually unattractive wall for our residential abutters regardless of the landscaping. >> Sean, >> Sean, are you almost done? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Uh, aquafer protection. You are currently reviewing permits under the
aquifer protection. Um, this use significantly increased the risk of storm water runoff containing pollutants like oil, gas, grease, construction from debris paved into our wellhead area. Uh, I got one more important thing. Um, if you grant this special permit for this
contractor yard, this use will always remain on the property. There is no going back. We have already watched this play out with Mercury computer system. A company comes, stays, and eventually leaves. a future company will be permitted to use this site and to the
absolute maximum permanently dismanaging the quality of life here. So if you permit this the contractor yard these guys could be great they sell they move somebody else they have this permit. I
urge you to vote against this project and preserve the quality of safety and sustainability of the residential area. Thank you. Thank you, Ch. >> Any other members of the public wish to speak? >> Okay,
>> Mr. Chair, if I just may just clarify a couple of points from Mr. Campbell. So, um I just want to mention and I know Doug will probably mention this in his wrapup, but um this area is an IIA zone and we're actually surrounded by commercial and industrial uses on both sides and across the street. We
understand that we are within an area of residences and that's why we notified 1,500 linear feet from the site for our butters meeting before we started this process. Um the zoning in an IIA district allows for contractor's yard with a Y. That's by right. The town of
Chumsford voted to allow contractor's yard in the IA zone. The aspect that we're here for tonight is the outdoor version of the contractor's yard. So contractor's yard in and of itself is allowed in this district. Regarding the zoning freeze, we did come here to
protect the zoning and that's because of the significant investment this family had already made prior to us coming here. They had already spent years working with the previous owner to come up with a purchase and sale and a plan and project to present to this board
under the bylaws. And when we caught wind that the town might be changing the zoning, that whole investment would have been thrown out the window without protecting the investment that they already made. So it was only in their interest and in the interest of what they were doing to make sure that they
protected what they had already looked at coming forward. Um, regarding some of the items related to lighting, certainly there's a lighting bylaw in the town of Chsford which we have adhered to. We've also done extensive work to make this
project the best possible project for the neighborhood using the industrial zoning. We have a very small building along the frontage along the entire frontage. We're utilizing the topography for the site. The entire contractor's yard is hidden. You won't even know that
it is back there when you look at the site. We have a one-story building that's residential in nature facing the street with a parking lot. All the lighting meets the lighting requirements. The equipment is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of feet to the back of the site. And we've also kept a
40ft tree buffer along the back of the site, which wasn't on the original plans between us and the highway to help with noise pollution from the highway into the site. So, I do want to mention all of those things. We have also designed a very complex storm water management
system and have worked with both the town of Chumsford and will continue to work with the board in relationship to making sure the water that enters essentially that is infiltrated at the end of the day is clean. Um and with that I will I just wanted to
clarify um some of those items. So I will turn it over to Doug. >> Thank you Katie. Um you didn't say too many things. I was going to say, but a couple good ones. So, so as Katie said, we're here today
for a special permit for the outdoor contractor's yard proponent of this project. The And I'll say it again, we're in an IIA zone. Your IIA zone allows contractor yard offices by right.
It's only the outdoor component that we're required to get a special permit for. And let's talk about that special permit because you have a decision to make as to whether or not we've met the threshold for obtaining that
permit. It's not a question of whether you personally like it or dislike it. It's a question of whether we are meeting the requirements under the law. In order for you to issue us a special permit, it can only be done on a determination by this board that adverse
effects of the proposed use will not outweigh its beneficial impacts to the town or the neighborhood. But those considerations must be based on facts and figures. The first consideration is the social,
economic and community needs served by the proposal. Community development is a positive action in all towns and cities. At one time, Chumsford had a community
development liaison trying to bring businesses into this town to make development and to bring offices into your office district and industrial uses into your industrial zone. So when you talk about what exocial and
economic or community needs that are subserved, you know, economic development results in an increase in in your tax basis. Currently, they pay $19,000
a year in taxes for that piece of land based only on an assessment of the expected construction costs, which is somewhere in the uh neighborhood of5 to $6 million. So, right there, you've got a an existing business in town making a $6
million investment in your community. So even if we take that $6 million as an assessed value, but we all know that if you spend $6 million building a building and a facility, more often, if not always, the assessed value is going to
be higher than that. But I'm going to base it on a conservative estimate of $6 million. That's going to result in a in excess of $150,000 per year in additional tax revenue to this town. That's just property taxes. You still
have to consider things like um excise taxes on the vehicles and equipment. That's no small number that goes to this town. And yet this project provides no new residents and no new school kids to your
to your to your school system. So that money they're paying in taxes, which is a higher rate than residential by the way, is more than going to cover any services, town services that this project requires.
All right? We're not going to commit to your school system or your other residential programs or anything else. Yeah, we'll we'll need our share of fire and police, but I can assure you the 150,000 plus a year we're paying in
taxes will more than cover that. The economic development also provides significant employment opportunities to this town and the residents here. You're going to build a five or six million dollar facility. That's a lot of construction contracts. That's a lot of
contractors in this area coming to work for a number of, you know, months or years to get this place done. Once it's done, the facility itself is there to support small businesses and contractors, which provides even further
employment opportunities. Once it's built, they're going to have to maintain it. Somebody's going to have to come plow the snow and cut the grass and everything else. Guess what? Those are jobs available to local contractors.
Then on top of all that, these new employees, these new contractors, the people that are working there, where are they going to go eat? Where are they going to go shop at lunchtime? They are going to spend their money here in Chumsford. That's what economic development is all about. Bring
businesses in, employment opportunities, taxes, spend money. All of your business will benefit from that. This is why cities and towns are always looking for economic development and to
draw new companies in. And Chsford is no different. They've been in years past have actively been trying to attract businesses. And when you were going to attract a business, if they want to come into your IIA zone, that's where they're going to go. If they're going to go to your business zone, that's where they're going to go.
Our clients chose to come to Chumsford, stay in Chunsford in your IIA zone. The other consideration is traffic flow and safety. And with all due respect, um you have to look at the
numbers. You have to look at the reports. Your own traffic people have said that our project, yeah, we're going to add some more big trucks. We're going to add small number of total vehicles to the 2900 that go through there a day.
Um, but there's nothing in these reports that show that we are going to create a hazardous situation or that we're even going to exasperate that situation. You can't say just because truck drivers
drive illegally, too fast, to go over the lines or whatever else. You can't just assume that our extra trucks are going to do that. There's this whole pro innocent until proven guilty. So, you can't say, "Well, you know, people, you've heard the road's
adequate. People can pass it without crossing the line. That there's been no head-on collisions. Most of the collisions, all of the traffic stuff has accidents have been, you know, single vehicles going off the road. I wish we had the number of how many of those were trucks.
I bet it was very few, if any. It's probably mostly cars. You know, the fact that you've discussed that it's speed, there's people are speeding, you know, the narrowness of the road, the questionleness of the bus stop locations, and you know, the fact that
mailboxes are on the wrong side of the street, how does that have anything to do with my client's project? Okay, that's a town of Chunsford should be looking at that and figuring out, hey, maybe we should put the mailbox on the other side or maybe we should look take
another look of where the, you know, bus stops go. You can't look at our project and say, "Well, we got all these problems. Why would we let them build?" The reason you let us build is because we've shown through our traffic analysis and your peer reviewer that we can we
will not exasperate those issues. and we've proposed mitigation that will do an overall uh benefit to the current situation. So, we're not making it worse. I think we're making it better. Um so, the project will not exasperate the
impacts of those infrastructure deficiencies that the town of Chsford is is, you know, responsible for. Perhaps with the increase in the tax revenue from this project, the town can actually put that money towards correcting those problems and providing
additional protections to your residents. In other words, here's another opportunity for this project to help solve those problems. Um, you cannot punish my client for the inadequacies of the roads where we have
shown where we have the same right to use the roads as everyone else. and it can we can make those issues significantly um better and help to mitigate your next consideration and these the rest of these are pretty quick except for one
the adequacy of utilities and public services. I don't think we've had any questions whatsoever whether we have the ability to have water and sewer and this project will not impact public services in any substantial manner. Like I said, we might have a a couple calls to fire
and police like everyone else does, but I doubt we're going to be using the library or any of the social services or the schools or anything else in town. So, we're not impacting your uh your utilities are not. In fact, we're providing uh between our water and sewer
bills, we're paying our fair share for improvements to those systems. Um impacts to natural environment. Well, we're not within the conservation jurisdiction. We don't even have to file with conservation. We have provided and
maintained a significant amount of trees on the site. And as Katie has said, we've designed a storm water system that meets all of your local and state regulations. So, we've ensured protection of both the environment and your water resources. There has been no
questions to the contrary here. The last uh second to last is potential fiscal impact including the impact on town services tax base and employment. Well, I covered that under the consideration of social, economic and community needs.
Uh but let's face it, fiscal impact, this is a plus for the town. We are going to have very little impact on town services. We're going to increase your tax base and we are going to provide significant employment opportunities and those employees are going to spend money
in this town. So from a fiscal impact, this is a positive. The last consideration and I think the one that you guys have focused on as you should is neighborhood character and social structure.
Okay, do you guys know what social structure is? Do you understand what how you measure impacts on social structure? I didn't always. I had to research it to figure it out. Social structure is the aggregate of patent
sound ar uh social arrangements in society that are both emergent and and and uh determinant on the action of individuals. That's what social structure is. What I say it is is the way we live, the way we operate, the way
we we we walk through our lives. This project is not going to significantly impact the way people live their lives around us. Supposedly, they've always been diligent in protecting and being safe on the road. They're not going to
do that any less with this project. Some might say they'll do it even more. But we're not going to have a negative impact on the way they live. If they're currently protecting their kids and doing driving correctly, we're not going to cause them to do that any less. But
more importantly is the discussion of neighborhood character. I'll say it again. This is an IA zone. Not only that, but it abotss a highway. both of the project both of the properties on either side of us
industrial uses across the street industrial uses. So I can't agree with you when you say this is a residential neighborhood. At best this is a mixeduse neighborhood where you have commercial and residential development.
We are simply adding another commercial facility to the mix that's already there. We are doing it in the IA zone where this most of what we're proposing is allowed by right. Now residents will say
that adding commercial is uh a distraction and it will um take away from the residential neighborhood. Well, I will tell you that if I was building a residential neighborhood across the street from all these
industrial uses, they'd be in here arguing that putting residences across from our industrial uses is detrimental to our neighborhood because now we're going to get the neighbors complaining. There really is no distinction between residential and commercial in terms of
your need to protect the rights. You need to protect your commercial builders rights in the AI zone in the same way you got to protect the residential neighbors in the residential zones. This is a mixed zone. You cannot dis you know
distinguish the two. Neither party has a priority. They have to learn or they have to function together. that my clients have the right to provide that do this project as long as we are protective and we have done everything we can buffers
you know the storage the equipment the neighbors are concerned about the lights and the noise as Katie said we've designed this site to put a building up front at a higher level the whole site drips down and we've put everything out back everything's out back unless you
look down the driveway you're not going to see anything we all know that at the end of the day you have to make a decision and you cannot be arbitrary and capriccious in making a decision that
you don't like it or that you know it's it's going to be unsafe. I don't care that the engineers tell me the road's wide enough and if people follow the law it would be safe. >> You can't blame my clients if people
choose to violate the law. So I'd ask you to really consider your job here is to determine whether or not we are that the project is is through all this research and everything else
has proven to you and shows you that we are going to be so detrimental to the neighborhood not the residential neighborhood but the mixeduse neighborhood of IA and residential to do that based on all the information we
provide You guys know what arbitrarian capriccious is? I you know we don't want to go there. I really >> I'm sorry. Are you saying you're you're that's a threat? >> Anita, >> no. Let him finish. >> It sounds like a threat to me.
>> Just let him just let him finish. >> Let him finish. >> It's not a threat by any means, Anita. I'm just trying to explain to you the law because when I have someone at a board looking at me and saying, "I'll never approve this no matter what you do. I just think, boy, is that following the
law? Is that arbitrary and capriccious? I'm not threatening anything, Anita. I'm just asking you guys to understand what arbitrary and capriccious is and don't bring this into your decision. You need to follow your law. You need to weigh these things based on the materials that
we've submitted and then make a decision. And I think if you do that, you'll realize this project has been designed and proposed to address all of those concerns. It's in an allowed use in the zone for the most part. We're not
damaging the environment. We've proven the traffic is safe. We've proven we won't have impacts on your services. We've proven the fiscal benefits of the project. You get to weigh all that and decide. I'm not threatening anybody. I've never
threatened anyone in either. Please don't say I have. >> Okay. Well, just this >> stop. >> I know that was a lot there. That's I I don't know why it got to there. I was just coming up here to summarize the effort you guys have given us, the
opportunity you've given us, and to reiterate that we have been here from the 80s. Family has been here from the 80s. This is strictly an investment for us. It's not a a build and flip. I I plan on staying here. um we've outgrown where we we currently are like we said in the past. Um you know we hope that uh
you've seen the effort we put in over the last couple of months and and really take it into consideration. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um so the way that we're going to proceed on this project and the way that I'd like to proceed on all um
lengthy complex projects uh moving forward is after we finish reviewing all the information from the applicant peer reviews departments public um we then have a discussion around potential
special conditions uh that we would like to include clude in a an affirmative decision. Um, we do that before closing the public hearing so that way we can have a discussion and negotiation with the
applicant if needed. Um, so we don't have to open and close the public hearing. um we come up with all of the potential um special conditions uh that can be discussed and ruminated
on and then close the public hearing. Once we've finalized those, move to a vote where we discuss and deliberate based on the um information we have, the potential special conditions
um and then we vote. So that's how I'd like to proceed um with this project and um any of the other big ones uh that we continue to have. So um
with that being said, it is quarter of 10. Um we did go over the 45 minutes I allotted for the projects. Um, so I would propose that we entertain entertain a motion to continue to next
meeting where we will discuss possible um special conditions. So think about the special conditions you would want to include um in an an affirmative decision. Um and then we can uh discuss
those, close the public hearing, move to a vote and deliberation, and then vote. Okay. Is that okay with the applicant? >> Will that happen next meeting? >> How does it work? >> Yes.
>> How does it work with the uh special provisions? Will you like let us know beforehand what you're thinking so we can kind of counter or is that we can't discuss it either. So, we'll all think about what special conditions we would want. We do it here >> and then have that discussion in in open
public. >> Yeah. because one of the special conditions I may want, someone else may not want on the board. So, we can't determine that till coming here. >> All right. >> Is there any other information that we
can provide you with in the meantime? >> I have not heard any other questions. So, I'm assuming from the board members that we have all the information that we need. Okay. >> All right. Right. So I will entertain a
motion >> to continue to the 12th. >> Yes. November. November 12th. >> Motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor? >> I. >> I. >> All right. Thank you everyone. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks. >> Next item on the agenda is Steman Street
and that um is a request to continue to November 12th. >> Yes. Um, do we think that one is actually going to be ready? >> It will be ready. They're presenting to the commission uh on October 28th. To
the conservation commission on October 28th. >> Okay. >> So, what do we have on the 12th? All of these? >> Yes. >> Some will be faster than others. >> We also have uh Chswood Mall on the 12th, too. >> Yep. Um, >> it's going to be quite a night. >> Yep. It's going to be another long
night. Uh I will propose we start at 6:30. >> Um but it will be another long night. Um hopefully we'll I will uh keep track of time again. Um some will be longer than others as I mentioned.
>> All right. I will entertain a motion. >> I move that we continue 152 Steman to the 12th of November. >> Second >> motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor? I. >> Unanimous. All right, community development director's report.
>> Five quick items. First one is the town's open space and recreation plan has been approved by the state. It's in the process of being uploaded to the conservation commission's website. Second item, uh Micola from Nimcog will
be presenting the housing production plan to the select board this Monday evening. As you recall, the planning board has already uh endorsed that. Um third item, you have a handout this evening on the citizen uh planner training collaborative uh fall um
educational sessions. Some of you have participated in those over the years. >> I strongly recommend. >> Strongly recommend it. Absolutely. >> Fourth item. Uh some recent inquiries have been at 136 and 150 Steedman. Those are industrial zones.
>> I missed that. >> Uh 136 and 150 Steman Street. Those are industrial zones in close proximity or abuing the l city line. Last item is we had the uh debrief with the state on the onetop uh application.
Uh simply stated uh the application missed the mark. Um I I certainly take um take most of that um um not credit but I I certainly uh take most of that since I was the primary
author. Um we've engaged or are in the process of engaging uh with NIMCOG um to see what options exist to um work with them similar to uh housing production plan or OSRP plan related to
technical uh technical assistance and as I mentioned um in lie of the town finding um $100,000 the scope may need to be revisited. Yep.
>> And and there was no opportunity for um like >> uh so there there are variety of options uh to consider. We could wait until next June, reapply the one stop and then find out in October of 2026. Um
>> and do you have some idea about what would make it not miss the mark or would they not that specific? >> Yeah. Yep. Um, one of the keys is having a uh a detailed scope from a consultant. Um, so that would help tremendously.
>> So could we develop that? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the question for the board is do you want to wait that long? >> The other the other options are um you know go to springtown meeting ask for a summer money. Um third option is uh
cobble together available local uh funding sources that may not equal $80 to $100,000. And a fourth option is to attempt to work directly with NIMCOG. The benefit of working with NIMCOG is their rates
are lower than private consultants. Um but but the one of the cons is that they don't have the breath of technical expertise that private consultants have. >> What would we be cobbling together? >> Um available local funds.
>> What does that mean? >> Um so for example uh if you look at it as a housing component, you could go to CPC and get $10,000. There's a infrastructure component. So you could go to DPW and through the sore enterprise you could maybe get a sum of
money. Uh there's a conservation commission environmental component. So you could go to the commission or CPC and cobble together some open space uh funds. Uh so using a variety of departments, you could likely cobble together a sum
of money. It's certainly unlikely to approach $80,000. Um but you know if if we uh re review uh revisit the scope maybe we pull out the um the real estate market um component of that.
>> That component was the only component that required a consultant to do any um new data development. >> All the others were existing plans. So there's a variety of options. Um, as I've indicated, uh, I've proceeded with,
uh, making, uh, contact with Nimcog to get that conversation going. Um, but at some point, at some point the board's going to have to make a want a a a timeframe decision. And then ultimately, uh, whether there's strong opinions
about working with NIMCOG or working with a with a with a private, you know, uh, kind of consulting firm. I think to some degree it might make sense to keep moving forward with NEMCOG
to do some of the initial work and then I think maybe the market study could come into play when we're looking at at how more of the action items um and >> things like that. So I think where we
want to get to might not need the market study. So maybe we work with Nimcog on a little bit smaller scope and then >> excuse me >> do the market study with an external firm that would certainly narrow the scope and cost and then have us work
with NECO again to pull that data in and come up with the action items. >> So maybe it's what might be helpful is um actually trying to develop a scope. Y >> um and you know what I initially
envisioned is likely different than what is actually needed and here and now. Uh maybe getting the uh the committee together to try to have a a brainstorming session as to what what really is needed >> and what is what is uh wanted,
>> what what product or deliver is going to serve the serve the community the best. >> Yeah. So maybe we keep the the group the task force going um have that discussion about potential scopes and how do we want to handle this and then have the task force present that to the board.
>> I was going to say Mike and I met over the long weekend and we initially were going to try to get in touch with the committee but this has been a very tough week for all of us especially the people on planning board so and town meeting two sessions. So what we're what we
envision just we we're talking most recently is um looking at targeting November 4th. So we'd have to reach out to the group of people see if that works for everyone for the kickoff meeting. And we we've also chatted a little bit about what models we might apply to
defining what the problem is because I think the first part of a meeting of this group is all right let's pin the problem down >> y >> into definable well you're in high-tech you know all this >> you know how this works. >> Yeah. So let's keep that going. >> Yeah.
>> And then see if the group can come up with some recommendations on next steps. >> Yeah. We'll get there. Okay. Anything else on it? >> That's it. Thank you. >> All right. Any um leison on reports?
>> Nothing here. >> I missed housing advisory. So maybe if you could >> I wasn't there as well. I'm not sure they had a quir. >> Evan, do you know when the um Trump survey closes? >> The end of October. >> That's what I thought. So the only thing
we didn't meet at Senate Village because we had the meeting with Nimco at the library. uh prior to the last meeting, but just um sort of getting people to fill out that survey on um ideas and their thoughts on the Trumpswood Street. And >> where do we find that link? >> It's been on the town. It's been on
Facebook. Um is it on the town's website? >> On the town's website. >> On the town's website because I thought so. That's that's where I saw it. >> Is it the like what what should we do about Shamster? >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> I have to say that map is very difficult to maneuver. Yeah, it is a little
>> I didn't design it. Sorry. >> Not easy at all to deal with. >> Probably the whole thing just like the big dig. >> I didn't design it. I'm sorry. You know, Ncokcog. Um but yeah, no, just they want to get um public input on it. Um so that they can we can really start working on
that idea. >> Who's they transportation? >> Ncog. >> Oh. Oh, >> this is a this is a a town initiated project. I know but I'm get I get mixed up between the clover leaf round. >> So that's mass dots, >> right?
>> Jump street itself is Nemco. >> Okay. >> The segment is from the center to Alpine Lane. >> Okay. >> Is what is what is being focused on. >> Yeah. >> Alpine lane is where the hotel is. >> Where the hotel is. Yeah. >> Looking at potential sidewalks, bike
lanes. Um >> sort of making it parking, making it more of a village type feel. Um, so >> they're just looking for public input at this moment. >> Um,
the conservation commission met last week. Uh, they approved 242 Bill Ricka Road. Uh, so that's finally done. Um, I think board of health was still working on testing. Um, Chelford Mall was
continued to November 25th. Um, so I'm curious as to whether or not they're coming >> 25th. It's a good point. >> Back to us. >> I'm not sure we'd want to see them before Con >> because Con is not meeting on the 11th because it's a holiday. Uh, so their
next meeting is the 25th. >> So Evan, could you reach out to them and find out if they're >> Y >> going to Concom first before us or if they're >> I don't think they're going to just based upon what's transpired. Um their
their permitting with the uh concom is pretty straightforward. >> Okay. >> Nothing really to do with the pad sites. It's kind of the the existing site alterations. >> Okay. >> So there's no reason for them to go to concom first and delay first. >> Unlikely, right? >> Okay. Okay.
>> I was wishful thinking we might be able to move one of them out, but >> oh well. All right. Um, meeting minutes. Has everyone reviewed the meeting minutes? >> Joel, you were absent for that meeting,
so you cannot vote. >> Correct. Any corrections or issues with them? >> Okay, I'll take a motion. >> Motion to accept the meeting minutes from >> August 13th.
>> When is it? August 13th. Second >> motion from Deer, second by John. All in favor? I I unanimous and Joel >> Yeah. Can we add to our new business, old business, I don't know
what uh discussion about the >> now that we've had uh Princeton Street? It is. No. Is it Princeton Street? Whatever the you know the thing that we had people for us for. Which one was it? >> Princeton Street. store. Yeah, liquor store. Yeah.
>> To discuss then like are there things that we want to do that would promote >> people being aware that they can't just go be making changes on? >> We'll add it to my list. I've got a big list of things that we need to tackle. >> Circle back around. >> We just need a stockade in the center of
town and we put them in the center with a I'll supply the rotten. >> Um I do have a list. I've been waiting till after town meeting and after some of these bigger projects. get off our radar. >> I just thought it'd be good to circle right back on. >> Yeah.
>> Um, we probably won't do more of that type of work until probably January because as I mentioned, we've got one meeting in November, >> one in December. >> One in December, and then >> a bunch of things, a bunch of stuff we need to clear out.
>> Yeah. So, um, so we'll probably start tackling more of that stuff and then depending on the outcome of town meeting, start tackling, um, applying CBLT to other zones, um, at the beginning of the year.
>> Good luck. Um, one thing. >> Yeah. >> Um, I'd like to if because you brought up town meeting, um, if tomorrow you could start your presentation of the reason why we're doing >> Wait, what >> the CBLT? um because of all the issues of
neighborhoods and that are but IIA >> which why we have the CBLT meeting just kind of reemphasize the whole reason why we're doing CBL >> CBLT >> is >> for all trying to get some of these IAS out of the middle of residential areas
>> well at least the like the uses that are going in IIA >> yes there is a handout um public service announcement >> keep reminding There is a handout that I developed um as part of the feedback from the pre-Town meeting. >> Um I believe that there are still a ton
left. So >> I'm going to encourage people to take those um because it does highlight some of the differences. >> Yeah. >> And great job with that by the way. And they were they are printed in color to process. So >> Okay.
>> I don't I didn't see any. And >> yeah, it's it's got the the um zoning abbreviation definitions on the first page. So, it's not as I should >> How many pages is it? >> Six, I think, >> because it's got the tables blown up.
>> Um all right. So, the next meeting um will start at 6:30. >> I'm going to actually suggest that we continue starting at 6:30 until we clear out our agenda a little bit more. Um, so that'll continue.
>> All right. I will take a motion. >> Move to adjurnn. >> Motion to >> motion by deer draw. All in favor? >> I. Thank you everyone.