right not worth going back and looking let's get started since it's six o'clock good evening it is six o'clock on Wednesday April 23rd and I'm calling this meeting of the Chsford Planning Board to order my name is Chris Lavali and I'm the chair of the board uh
tonight we will be following the posted agenda this meeting tonight is both in person and in Zoom via Zoom if Zoom fails at any point in the meeting we will continue to the meeting in person uh the meeting is being televised live and recorded via Chelford Teleia and
will be available on their website and on YouTube uh so the first item on the agenda tonight is public input uh public input should be limited to issues uh pertaining to the jurisdiction of the planning board uh that are not currently
the subject of a pending public hearing and is there anyone in person or on Zoom who wishes to speak okay seeing none we will move on to the first agenda item 5559 Middle Sex Street evan do you
want to give a little bit of background on this one um I can i believe the the proponents are also with us this evening uh my background is uh fairly brief um several years ago um the property uh was
acquired by um by Manzo uh they're the ones who are making uh the formal requests to the board um the background here is that um I think they mentioned the narrative but
uh several weeks ago uh they had a particular tenant um who they were engaged with um and they happened to be more retail oriented um and IA which
this particular mill is located doesn't allow does not allow retail uses the mill across the street where um the establishment is is not zoned IIA that does allow uh retail historically the
mills were somewhat complimentary they they were able to kind of coexist and not compete with one another um over the years the planning board has talked about uh mill overlay zoning districts encouraging residential i had explained
to you that uh over the years neither neither property owner had specifically expressed that interest um that still seems to be the case uh at this point but what's clear is that um the Manzo Mill
um is you know attempting to update in accordance with market trends and demands um so I think why don't you uh yep join us at the podium and you can provide some uh further insight thank
you Evan hi I'm Joe Freeman and I'm part of the ownership of the mill this is Pedro Kamara who's our property manager at the mill we've owned it just over a year uh we'd specifically like to thank Evan and Jose Negrron for uh being
really uh helpful and uh available for us so we're able to just be transparent and talk to them ahead of time and say "Hey here's somebody that's approached us a tenant what what do you think what should we do?" Uh we have a number of
tenants most all of them are small sort of local businesses from uh either from Chelmsford or Lowel or Lawrence or Westford but all sort of in this area uh we've got businesses as small as 250 ft
you know little just a little office we call it an incubator uh idea where you could bring in a small business try to get started we try to provide uh a really affordable environment uh for the tenants um and uh
we've uh invested in the property uh we've gone in I heard you talking about gardening i'm kind of a crazy gardener so we've we've gone in and we've got an account at Mahonies and we go in and we do all kinds of hanging baskets and
gardening and we've really tried to fix the place up and uh make it kind of more appealing and attractive and uh it just seems that in the time that we live now 2025 which sounds crazy to say but that
uh really the zoning that in talking and working with Evan and Jose that we think is more appropriate is the CBLT as opposed to the IIA it would allow us to continue to accommodate our existing tenants but also be available
for more retailish let's call them type uh businesses uh that are approaching us often uh and that's really kind of where we're coming from okay thank you thank
you um because this relates to the next agenda item I would like to try and keep this focused on questions and concerns related to this specific property um and then for the more broader context we can go to the next agenda item but for this
right now just try and keep it focused yeah i I could you give a description of the abuing properties and what's on them i mean I I know the spot but I don't know the back side of it very well right
so uh I mean I know you got one road on one side view that's got some residential I believe so there's Princeton you come over come over the bridge there yep and then you come on down there uh establishment and the mill uh that's
right there is there and then as you keep going past that you do have some residential in there take a there's a right turn up there yeah and then there's the uh fire station and then as you keep going up you get up to Vinyl Square where uh you know there's the
restaurants and uh the various things that are up there in Vinyl Square well I was just curious in particular what abuts this property because I want to know if to the north that little Gay Street is residential yeah Gay Street is residential that's a bunch of multifamilies i think it's uh it's zoned
I believe RC two family RC um Middle Sex Street the direct butter is our residential although it is zoned um IIA this this area here is
residential on the ground uh and then to the south um it's it's residential wellestablished residential neighborhood it's a little bit of a triangle in there there's the ri there's the river that runs with the power station back on the
other side there and then one side comes up Middle Sex and then the other side comes up Princeton and then the other border would be Gay Street as Evan points out so so it sounds like that reszoning it wouldn't be incon any more inconsistent with what's around it
than what you got right now that's what I'm that's what I'm poking at i would agree with that in terms of redeveloping I mean do you have any thoughts um you know retail and I know
my CPA is in your building for instance and he recently opened up his own shop coming from a big firm um so I'm in and out of there not infrequently um it's a lovely property i'm wondering if you were I mean I think there's a church
maybe in there correct and if you were if you were to do more of a retail element do you imagine putting like carving out a portion of the structures and making that a retail area good
question retail tends to be tends to be more of a first floor use uh people tend to not really want as much to go up couple of flights and and try to find some retail up there uh right now if I
sort of described retailish I'm going to call it again yeah we've got a plumbing supply uh granite uh pump plumbing supply uh and they sell out to not so much retail but to plumbers and to people that come in and get it and then
they go to your house and you know fix the plumbing uh we've got the golf uh that's in there that's kind of retailish uh Papus Golf has been there for many many years I think uh they sell golf
clubs or you go in and he's a golf pro uh they have some uh simulators that you can go and like hit into a net and uh get coached and you know uh that sort of thing there's some softball some girls
softball uh that's there coaching kids with uh that there's some yoga huh uh there are two buildings three actually that are carved
out on this side is it just the Are you just looking for that larger building or are you looking for the in the green as well because I noticed that that was highlighted with green is is that the same property yeah is that where the
dance people are clear as I look at that evan are you clear we have we call the buildings A B and C just so the post and the delivery people know where to go i'm not sure why the green is highlighted um is that where the dance people are
that's where the indoor wreck is okay because on the GIS it looks like a different property excuse me you You own You own the main building and then the the one next to the bridge correct yeah one parcel or two separate parcels you know one parcel I believe Evan okay but
that's there's a third building a fourth building in there that's McKitrich building that we do not own that's owned by someone else is that the green one no that's in the back right corner okay oh what's in there is that I last I knew it was like
a warehouse self storage yes huh okay could I just ask um if you were to go in like a direction with some retail any idea on like any concerns for parking or you you feel the site has We own a number of
these mills around and that's a good question John parking is often a big issue for us it's not at this mill we've got significant amount of parking here there's three different lots uh as you come over the bridge on Princeton if you
take the first ride in there's a big lot there uh if you go past that there's a second entrance up there where we've done a new sign that says the landing at Chelmsford Mills there's another almost two parking lots there and then there's
another little one around back off of Gay Street that lot does get pretty crowded with dance classes coming in and out at the end of the day you've got a lot of moms bringing the kids in and out and dads
so I do bring my I do bring my kids right fair and they've just uh extended their lease uh for a number of years so we're happy that they're there and staying
in your in your narrative you do mention I'm trying to find it that you've got current tenants that have more traditional industrial uses like light manufacturing production storage
warehouse what types of B what businesses are those so there's a business I'm gonna I'm always have to get the names ltd so LTD is one of the businesses they've got these sort of high techch uh uh vending
machines they're uh almost got AI in them uh smart they'll take your credit card you you know do all sorts of things uh there's another uh fellow who's from MIT tell me help me with them solid materials yes solid materials they do
some light manufacturing in there that's pretty uh high-tech they're real bright kind i'm not quite sure what they're talking about when I go in there with the MIT crowd okay thanks yeah and sort of our goal there I want
to mean go ahead keep going on but uh we wanted to we really value the existing tenants that are there we've literally owned it one year almost to the day right now and uh we've gone in and really tried to support the existing
tenants and get them to uh in our business there's a lot of value in in tenure how long people will stay there's not much value in somebody that's only going to stay monthto monthth the banks don't like it the investors don't like it you want somebody that's going to be
there for five years and you know okay we've spent the money we've got the the space the way they want it and they're going to stay there and pay their rent so we've really tried to keep everybody that we've got there uh and then grow it
uh beyond that and it's mostly small local businesses we're kind of growing it with okay thank you thank you any other questions just one really to Evan uh are there any uses in there now that would become
problematic by switching from IIA to CBLT or would they all be I mean it sounds like they may have some light manufacturing in there um and I think later on tonight we're going to be talking about a a new
definition for light manufacturing specific to the CB light um you know in the event there's a business in there that doesn't meet a new definition they're pre-existing non-conforming i think what's unique
about this property is you're not necessarily hearing that their future plans are demolition and new construction no right so not at all that's very unlike most of your other properties where you're trying to encourage and facilitate
redevelopment so the the mill is just a it's a it's really the use table where they're going to benefit directly with the retail and the restaurant component and you will no longer be allowed to uh pursue traditional industrial which you don't
have a lot of anyway no contractor yards right so for them it's likely a really a really good um exchange okay so Michael the thing I would say is you could you get up to the microphone sorry thanks sorry about that uh we
think these mills are they are historic but we actually think they're really beautiful and we think what happened is that people came in and tried to modernize them and put drop ceilings in them and do things like that and we feel
like the real beauty is in the exit the way it was originally done we think people are attracted to the big 9- foot tall windows to the big uh white you know yellow pine beams to the wood floors so we try to really kind of take
it back to what it originally was but make it so that the bathrooms are nice and Yeah I would I would agree with you on that by the way I'm sort of a fan of old mills both mills are beautiful yeah they're gorgeous yeah they are really nice um makes perfectly good sense to me
i just want to make sure that we don't Yeah by doing this we we wouldn't uh open up a can of worms that we hadn't anticipated what are what's your timeline in terms it sounded like there's a prospective tenant right now it's we've got a few that are um
interested right now and so our timeline is as soon as we can do it and I I don't understand exactly how the rules but I know that once it happens there's a like a waiting period something like that I'm not quite
sure how it all works sooner the better for us okay uh in terms of you know helping these these small businesses come in and open up okay thank you so is there any way that this I I can't imagine this getting done before uh fall town meeting no I think what we would
end up doing is kind of as we're continuing the discussion with Kate's Corner kind of keeping this site in mind oh yeah and then as we're looking at the properties to reszone um looking at Kate's Corner and then looking at this
area as well to make sure that and then we could do all of it at the same time to town meeting that would be ideal i have to say taking it like another step further and I know you want to move along so I'll just speak brief but I've been thinking personally about these mills and and the one down by the
softball field as well um and that whole area as would be a great place for something along the lines of you know the um the place that closed in Lel number five yeah um I know you know there's a and then there's a place the
Boston market in Boston when I was there last a couple weeks ago and you know those places that are small spaces they have a room for crafts they have room for making candles and restaurants and I we have a number of those in some of our
other mills in Hudson we've got a place called Naughty Pine and it's literally 30 or 40 local businesses it could be honey making right uh it's candles it's art it's but and the advantage of that
sort of thing and be a being able to do that is that the small business doesn't have to have a full-time employee to run the thing if you've got to pay somebody $50 to $60,000 there goes your small business if you can have sort of in a
collaborative group like that it's been super successful for us down in Hudson but like mill number five we see that and uh most of these mills they're taking them and going residential with them that's kind of where you know
there's a lot of money if you want to go that way but that's not what we do we keep them the way they are we want to have sort of built communities is what we call them right and I think going towards this type of zoning would help with that yeah absolutely okay very much
so it's good to All right thank you very much all right we will move on now to the Kate's Corner discussion um I want to try and limit this to a little bit over a half hour if at all possible uh
and what I did Evan yeah so if you can pull up the last slide deck um so what I did is I took speaking of slide decks is Anita on yet she is okay great and Sera's on as well um all right so what I
did is I took the slide deck that Anita sent out um I added a couple yellow or green green um notes where I thought that we had discussed corrections um and
wanted to just try and go through the dimensions the use table to finalize those tonight um if we can and then I also wanted to talk about a proposed redefining of um light
manufacturing um that might help us out in this case as well um so let's actually before we go into the use table let me talk about that manufacturing light manufacturing proposal um so Evan
if you could bring that up sorry to switch but it might help the discussion on the use table what I was thinking of is as I looked at the definition of light manufacturing that we have um there are
couple aspects of that definition that are more if if I think about them more heavy manufacturing like wood and paper manufacturing i really don't consider those to be light manufacturing given the paper plants that I've seen in
northern Maine oh yeah um the smells um and so part of that and then looking at the manufacturing that I think Loheed Martin does and uh some of the other
more high-tech manufacturing um I wanted to maybe talk through some potential additions on the ultralight manufacturing to include more of those high smaller high tech um types of
manufacturing that don't produce a lot of even internal noise and uh smoke and odor um and I think those if you if you do some Google searching like I
did a lot of those end products are more high-end and higher cost um products like electronics and things like that so I wanted to see if we can maybe redefine
another category that might fit in this area and would kind of remove some of that um the heavier side of the light industrial mhm so it the light industrial can stay in the industrial
area because we really don't allow any heavy industrial in in Charlottford um so the the heavier side of the light manufacturing would remain in IIA and then the lighter end of that could be pulled into the CB
light so I wanted the definition may need to be tweaked a bit um to make sure that we're getting the right uh areas um I think the two businesses that he mentioned that are in industrial in that
um mill building would fit into this category uh and I think Lheed would as well so I wanted to try and figure out if we can at least agree on the concept and then we can adjust the definition as we move forward
so thoughts on the definition i can't see it all that wonderfully well i was looking at it i think it looks like a good framework and so we could allow this type of
manufacturing in that CB light and not the typical definition of light manufacturing right let's let's throw some examples at it and see what we think uh how about a uh a small furniture manufacturer somebody that
like cabinetry cabin cabinetry perhaps or Yeah that's why furniture is included in here all right um how about I mean cuz they will have some chemicals they will have some things
that could smell they will have varnishes uh candle maker similar situation yep uh they would be you feel they would fall within this pretty well that's what I'm envisioning yeah i mean it's it's but I think we do have to
figure out the wording examples at those consumer goods so So Mike just to clarify the examples you gave would be um retail sales of goods the majority of which are produced or undergo processing on the premises okay so so that is
already that's already they sell them there but suppose they didn't sell them there i hear what you're saying but the indust the industrial whether it's light manufacturing ultra light it's not a retail sales classification right agreed
z medical analog and that's one of the key to they're not they're not classified as retail sales under zoning all right uh so that like the cottage industries would fall under retail sales of good or services the majority of which are produced or assembled how
about a tissue culture lab i mean that's pretty benign that's more of a R&D r&d that's R&D yeah that's not manufacturing well or it it can be manufacturing because a lot of things are propagated uh through tissue culturing nowadays
including plants i mean and sold well so would R&D andor tissue culture be allowed in this ultralite yeah that's what I'm I mean it's u I don't have the use tail up but it's currently allowed by special permit in the CB okay and
again what's the principal use interestingly enough it would be allowed by right in residential as a farm if they're doing if it's over 440 square ft tissue culture as a farm yeah you got to see the USDA definitions
plant tissue culture okay i just I stumbled upon that one day when going through uh USDA regs but um so this definition is specific to production R&D separate yes um okay i
think that's what the key on and again lock key would have to you know determine what the what the principal use is is it is it light manufacturing is it R&D and that's how it would be classified as a principal use mhm
okay uh any other but my goal here was to make it so that that locked use would be included right but something like um I don't know I'm trying to think of a a sawmill yeah a sawmill or yeah or a
leather factory would not be included here a leather factory wouldn't be included where you're making the leather but uh work with leather would be included Correct the artisal art artist artisal of it yeah just I guess what you find in
a lot of this is there's the boundary between manufacturing and artisal work may not be as clear all the time as we think and that's why I mentioned the candles and the furniture well this just point out this definition
does not Yeah it does it doesn't it doesn't include manufacturing it includes production right isn't that the intent difference between production and manufacturing light manufacturing says the indoor manufacturing and this says the indoor production so I think it's assumes that something's
already I would I was using those interchangeably in my definition okay well here we go but again that's something we'll have to figure out yeah yeah because I think by definition manufacturing has um a more diverse set of impacts
i mean give give you just an odd one uh if you're making concrete bricks that's probably manufacturing if you're making concrete lawn gnomes it's probably not what's the
difference the shape of the block so this is why and I would think the volume and the equipment that you're using but we have nothing in here that talks about the volume that's why I said we'll have to tweak this to figure it out i I think it's the right this is the right track okay yeah i think the
concept is good because it's going to be less intrusive business uses next to residential so Anita Sa any thoughts on this concept i think using the word manufactur really I don't know if you
guys can hear me okay but you're breaking up a bit that kind of opens up to a All right hold on can you hear me any better all right um I think the you the term of these manufacturing opens it up a lot to
a lot of different things to be there and I don't know if that's the intention or not um there's a lot of interpretation to the word you mean versus yeah i mean I I work in manufacturing
and I can tell you production and manufacturing are pretty synonymous so they go hand in hand you manufacture things to produce product right so it's just that it's just a thought it's just that I would be careful with
verbiage you know leaving it too wide open for interpretation to be things that you may not want there yep absolutely mhm all right anita any thoughts no okay do we know of any other towns
that have embarked on this journey before us and come up with something similar i I don't know off hand i would have to look into it i I imagine that some towns have gone beyond light
and heavy yeah i yeah I haven't done a lot of deep research on this i It was just a quick thought that popped into my head late this week and um so I wanted to kind of throw it out
there before I started digging and they know of anyone yeah I can reach out to Another another way to handle the problem by the way is to make it by special permit and lay more detailed descriptions of what you want and don't want in the special permit criteria
i mean now and when you do that you can differentiate between the concrete blocks and the lawn gnomes the the other option is um put um try try to um include in the
definition uh limitations on potential impacts so above and beyond indoor right that's that's why I would how many loading docks or or you know and I think we understand you know the zoles the the analog um
locked they have limited loading docks um at least in Chumsford um I was going to say size but these are all large large facilities but for CB for CB light you know lock heat is a lot
smaller than what's on 129 mhm so may maybe a you know not to exceed size there's probably some other is there sound limitations and things like that that you can impart to I mean
this says indoor this says indoor so it is I think it's assumed that but I mean most places can make noise outside as well i mean if it's indoors but they're storing things outdoors to bring them in there could be noise associated with that
yeah i think it's worth just giving some more conscription to yep okay i can do some digging gavin if you can uh reach out to Nemcog on that all right cool thank you everyone now
we'll move on to the slides again evan is there any way you can increase the size of that um look like I may have to download it all right oops not that one this one
is that this right here no not that someone's loud typing display settings Chris uh actually you've got it on oh okay there we go okay excellent okay you just
need to advance it where we going dimensional requirements so these were the ones that Anita had highlighted last time are we good with these well I am cuz Chris these but I didn't
we made changes to these right that's what I was trying to figure out i didn't track any of the changes other than the green ones that I had put in there so if you have changes let's make note of them now yeah so all right why don't
we So why don't we table this until I didn't realize that you were looking for the new presentation do you want I will put all the new changes into slides with the latest and greatest all right and just remember there there
are two dimensional tables that we we've been talking about i don't recall this one being changed right that bit of look up um the more we can finalize tonight the better well if you want to share let me share
screen i can put up what I the updates here i think I think there was some discussion about the side and rear setbacks the note 4 which is to increase to 100 ft it's resident abudding residential and I think we were you were
realizing that problematic we thought that might be problematic but then the sead does provide you some relief so as a as a non say solution then it may be okay it's definitely borrowing from the
IIA whereas the CB has a it's less restrictive CB I think is increased by 25 by I guess I have NA on here what do you have NA on
i think Anita's looking at the C Na we're looking at slide three Anita the dimensional the underlying dimensional requirements not the overlay yep that's what I have NA on it which one do you have NA
yeah cb light see how CB has zero not on this slide to the right the CB has zero and if you go over she's talking about Oh that one light has 150 150 i have NA on it so the depth
is NA okay yeah i forget why we said that though because some of the the lots are small lots are irregular and small yeah yep do you want me to share my screen want to allow me to share i can share it
yeah if heaven can do that okay you should have it you see my screen yep any way to put that on the large screen i don't have that capability can you make it bigger yeah anita if you
could make it bigger is that better yeah yeah it's a lot better y I I can see it great should have all been on Zoom tonight sa's rubbing it in
okay so that looks like it's the only change yeah we should address that the note though on side and rear yard requirements because uh basically you're you're adopting the 100 foot for IIA
versus the 20 foot from CB so I think you would want to go somewhere in between so we would add a seventh note for here n87 no for
the side or rear setback yeah side and rear setbacks both have the note 4 which is that when it's a budding residential it increases to 100 ft and yep the CB has note six which is
that it increases by 20 ft so we would want to add a note seven for that side and rear and increase some number that we consider appropriate some number between 60 and 100
because it's 20 plus it's 40 plus 20 note 6 if you applied note six and you add 20 so it' be 60 for the side and but if you applied note six it's 100 you go to 100 you don't add 100 yeah
do you want to add it by some 75 does that work cuz that's between 60 and 100 would the lots be able to accommodate that i say cuz that one of those lots well if they if they couldn't they would be asking for a variance right is that what happens existing non-conforming or use
or use COID or Yeah yeah cuz that Yeah and I think we already agreed we were going to we agreed to say odd applying yeah we did yeah so for precisely that reason but we would look to provide that kind of relief in SEO so we don't need to artificially bring
this too low right so this is as right so I think I think 75 makes sense that's as good as anything why wouldn't you just keep it at 100 then because we're we're really trying to come up with something that's between
we're CB light right so if CB itself is add 20 why would we H 80 let's just stop throwing out numbers you don't want noise well no you don't i mean I'm thinking about the noise right
because that's a lot of what what the setbacks are for is not putting it right in people's faces right when you're in a residential property so how do you protect how do you protect that like what we've already done some of that with the uses
i mean yeah we're trying to low noise right yeah and I think as much of it as the visual effect in the light and so are people comfortable with 80 80 70 I like even numbers
yes so so the the foot the footnote should not read increase by 70 increase by 80 it should be increase by 40 correct okay oh okay for a total of 80 all right now I understand 70 yeah got it okay got it
now I understand thank you all right all right so are people comfortable with this and Anita please um when you're making these revisions we need to track them so that we can present them the modifications to town
meeting so somehow either highlight them or underline them well it's going to be the entire column yeah but like adding the new column se uh footnote seven somehow we we're going to need to Okay yeah highlight that so
anything that you're not editing outside of the CB light column we would need to highlight yep so this is a new one all right new note all right um All right right so we'll consider
that done and then if you can go to the overlay sheet is that slide seven that is slide seven for those following on slides and Anita if you can really increase that
yep all right so the same so the depth side by side the depth we talked about last meeting as being NA
yep mhm um and then minimum yard requirements down a little bit further anita 20 and then we had 32 and 20 with an
increase footnote increase to 25 minimum we're ab budding residential yep but that which is illogical yeah that doesn't So we have to delete six on the
32 so on the distance of 32 oh you did okay so that there's no Yeah there's no fix there so Anita did fix that on hers okay uh 24 20 both with footnote six and then 30
footnote seven what's footnote 7 sorry there is no footnotes we just Oh yeah that was the other slide to make it 40 increase by 40 oh yeah that came from
the other side that's right that pulled from Sorry so do you want it to be seven no no no there should be no footnote seven on this one only on the only on the other one so this just needs to be 40 i'm not
pulling it from the other side it's part of like the formatting all right do people see any issues any other issues with these dimensions anita could you do me a favor and increase that a little bit more get my binoculars
maybe one more screens are a little bit smaller in here thank you the big one that's good h any concerns with any of this table that people can see jumping out at them no but I left my numbers at home
what is the Is this Which one is this say okay this won't be the last right time we do this anyway i mean it's just for the first draft of the Can you scroll down anita can you scroll down to the rear yard requirement
where you had it down the rear yard yep there we go so the so the sead by right is 24 and if if
it abuts residential it goes to 25 five minimum 25 minimum can you can you scroll it up a little bit to the rear they're all minimums right thank you okay cb CB is 16 is that right and IA is
24 and we want to be 24 that goes up to 25 for residential um I mean that seems kind of silly but whatever uh I know so that's going up a foot one
up by one on that one it is yeah oh you're next to a residential okay we'll give you another foot right so that's the same as IIA right right which again
what is what does note four say on IA because it says 24 with four what was four increased to 100 increased to 100 100 yes i think that mean we want four it's I think I think we want it I think
we want it to go up higher than 25 don't we yeah well it looks like on i8 it's goes up to 100 right and are you going in between on this one like the last one i'm not sure we need 100 ft i don't
think so no no I don't think so i mean we won't get any we won't get any building anywhere i mean you're good what about that side looking at this what about the side up above little tiny postage stamps what was that Sita uh the side one up above is that
one increases to 25 is that for side feet for side by special per minute is that the I can't read if that's the what note that is but that one only goes from 20 to 25 and those other ones right a six goes to 25
is that Yeah i mean the thing too is look at look at the rear look at the by right and then look at the special permit so it's 30 right now it's 30 24 right so you want your middle one to be somewhere in between the 30 and the
20 right um and then you also want to make sure that it's somewhere between CB which is 16 the by right say but I don't think these are envisioning a village setting no where everything's like this
is for you know riverneck road or something like we're not going to get 100 feet anywhere here you know I'm not proposing 100 feet 100 feet doesn't make sense only because you're you you start at 30 and then you go down to 24 and
then you go to 20 but just walk in the door say odd you know so so I think I think you want the numbers to jive I guess is what I'm saying so you you want the number the by right number
to be between the one above it and the one below it and you want it to be between the one on the left of it and the one on the far right of it right that's kind of the b the bounds bounds of where we want a value to be right so right now when you're looking at CIS by
special permit rear and feet if I'm looking at this right CB at 106 is a 100 that one's 25 right 25 yeah 25 and then the IIA is that one is 20 but goes
up to 100 right when residential so you're 25 to 100 right at max so you want to be between there for CV light Right yeah i think you should be like and you want to be close and we think we want to be closer to CB than we are to
IIA because we're specifically trying to restrict the uses of CB light to be closer to actually it's it's lighter than CB it's really something between CB and CA but staying close to CB I think makes
sense to some degree so do you have any recommendations for numbers i want to go to 30 but I think 30 i know that's what I was thinking as well it's 30 okay okay so there's 24 and goes to
30 okay and then the bottom did you put 30 here no the bottom i think it was the bottom one wasn't it no no it was the It was the by right one yeah by right that's that's that has to be the middle number at the by right that's 24 but Anita it's 24
but then when it's a budding residential it goes to 30 so that way if you're not so I need a new note yeah so it needs a note because otherwise if it wasn't a budding res residential you're being more restrictive and we didn't want to do that so this would be 24 with a note 7
yeah a new note 7 or maybe you should make Yeah because No because not a different Yeah it's a different table so there's a different note system note number so this increases to 30 yeah yep
then and then uh and then the special permit is 20 and then that would go to 25 is that right no four put no four it's for 100 no it's 100 okay so we want that one to go to six increase to 25 25
yeah okay what about this one no seven which one no we're good the one pink the side by right or side special permit
mhm 20 to special to 25 yeah 20 to 25 that's what I would do yep okay because that's that's consistent with CA and CB they have the same thing for rear and side mhm by permit
okay any other concerns on this table excellent moving on i'm thinking of this as a first pass i mean well second pass well for the this is would this would be the final draft to then take it to the next stage which is more of a public
hearing so this is what we'd be presenting at public hearing all right use table oh did you want me to go through that uh no i think I've covered I think I've got this one let's try and use the slides and if you see
something that's different we can call it out um so I think the biggest question here is on the residential items the multif family
uh owner occupied boarding house and then the line 8 bcd on this slide um the fac facilitated and independent and senior living facilities
i have voiced my opinion that I don't think we should have residential in this area but I would like to hear others thoughts hm well I mean we we I remember discussions before about liking mixed use mixed
residential with commercial and actually we kind of missed the opportunity to bring that up with the Chser Plaza when they were here asked that question but um I mean that would I mean it's in say it's in
Sead does have provision for housing so you don't necessarily have to include it in the as right so either way my concern is that if we're using this as a buffer between
residential and industrial I'm not sure putting residential in the buffer between residential and industrial makes a lot of sense i don't know i mean again if we're talking about a village a village picture if we had you
know office or res or retail on the first floor and housing on the second or third floor above I think that would be still bufferish yeah mixed use would I think it' be appropriate yeah but I think we could accomplish that in the overlay not necessarily in the
underlying zoning oh that's in the in the light no that's a good point because we would be using this in other areas where you wouldn't necessarily want that that's true that's a good point what kind of flexibility i'm with first
on this i would because we have it in like the overlays for the ability for that so I agree does anyone house owner occupied i would keep that a no does anyone not agree
that on putting no on these that made my brain hurt wait a minute what did he just ask i'm proposing to put no on these residential uses okay with that it's just the way you worded it i lost i
know so I'm proposing that we put no on those uh on line 8 and keep the nos on the multif family and the owner occupied on the underlying zoning is there anyone that does not agree with that i agree with that yeah that's I think that's
acceptable all right Stha and Anita you okay with that i think I heard yes on that all right so we'll make those changes um the next slide
again kind of an aside but if we're going to take a run at some point at the overlays I personally might want to make it so you couldn't just do housing if you're going to do housing in the villages that there had to be something some some commercial on the first floor
yep that can be our next to do that yeah that'll be our next project yeah I like that one of the next projects one project out of town all right on the next slide we have again the nursing rehabilitation home so I'd propose putting a no on that one for the same
reason and then the parking garage and structure we had planning board think that makes sense we're specifically maybe going to on that limitation with site with limitation
with size and height did we put a limitation on that we're not treating it any differently than any other structure what's the current limitation on for height in this district in this didn't I see three i think you guys have it as 35 three
stories right three stories three stories that's fine let's leave that okay but wait can we go back to the nursing constant or rehabilitation home because that would not be covered under sead right correct it would not be right and it is allowed by permit in CB and
IIA so why would we exclude i think Chris was you were viewing it similar to the specialized housing senior housing assisted living in the previous slide i I'm curious as to why those are different i'd have to look closer at the
definition but so I'm I'm not right now I'm not recommending we change the CB and IIA um not ruling it out in the future but in terms of allowing it in this for
the the reason that we're using this zoning I I'm not sure I would put it in there do you feel differently Joel um I think it makes sense to keep it in the CB i think as a sort of a normal
residential I would say no but if it's a sort of special especially special like a care kind of uh residential I think that's different you don't necessarily like making it more restrictive than the we're we're
trying to combine two things and we're making it more restrictive than either that doesn't seem Yeah what we're trying to do that's the only part that that sort of bothers me is it's it's making it more restrictive than the things that we were thinking we were between or you're making this one more correct
than what you've had previously yeah yeah i like looking at it that way that that's that's a good way to look at it too um because in the future I would like to maybe change the IIA one to know and then Right and then this
would align for that right if you make it this way now okay this would be like the first step towards doing that instead of allowing it now and then changing it later are people okay with that i'm I'm on the fence i'm on the I I'm
not convinced either way yet those are more institutional uses I guess is what I would say and that seems I agree except it's institutional residential and it's the residential thing that bothers me that right next to an industrial warehouse
yeah except for we're making an industrial light so it' be less objectionable than what but it would still be next to industrial i mean I guess for me like residential you're just assuming that people are going to want to be outside that they're going to want to be making use of their property
you know have a neighborhood but but if it's institutional residential that's that's not the case right so you don't have that so now you're concerned about well will they be affected by the uses that are going on around them but again we
just were saying that these are uses that we thought would be okay to be adjacent to residential right so it seems to me that that instit an institutional residential use would seem like that would fit like it would be less objectionable than a regular res
except if I'm looking at it the other way this use being next to an industrial Yeah to me is not okay it next to a residential which is why I would like it to continue in the CB is
okay but not next to the IIA would this be something that would be like adult daycare as well like is that one of the things that would be underneath this category it looks like No it it looks like it's residential um
so nursing home uh rehab facility where people care we have is uh could it be could it be something underneath the PB like you did with the others where that requires a I mean
that's they what do they come to the planning board and ask is that how those that's a good thing well except if you look at it if the if they come before us and they're right next to a property that then becomes a byright industrial
use that's where the problem becomes it's not where you're putting the nursing home it's if the nursing home's already in that location and then it an heavy industrial or light industrial use comes right next to it
mhm right we have some situations like that on turnpike maybe these um institutional residential uses maybe you table until you identify specific geographic
locations it's still not clear to me to what extent you're expanding beyond Kate's Corner and the Miller from earlier i don't know if you I don't know if this exercise to town meeting is going to include the entire review of the entire zoning map
so for me I'm looking at any location I would put this I would not want a nursing home right next to a warehouse a warehouse agreed agreed but what if but what if but what if that existing IA that has a
warehouse is reszoned to CB light is that not what we're trying to do but the CB light could still be next to a warehouse correct at some point at some point you draw a line but we don't know we don't know where those are and how many of
them are yet right but I'm I'm okay with the nursing home on the other side of this buffer in the CB and the residential i get it yeah but I'm not okay with the resident with that in the buffer itself which is next to the industrial i mean it makes sense to say
no off of the things that you said no to on the previous page i mean that matches with this right exactly yeah it matches with that but we're not But if we were to do it as it is in CBNIA it would be a board of appeals so it would not be a yes by
right but it would be something that would be looked at but by the board of appeals not by us and like I said I'm less concerned with a nursing home going in and choosing their location that's fine but if a nursing home's already
there and then they're right next to an IIA zone Woody's Wood Processing Center that comes in by right and they have no choice 6 a.m yeah no I understand what you're saying i'm just not fully convinced yet
so if people are okay with putting the no on this for now and then we can revisit it revisit it public hearing okay do you want to keep moving um all right next
slide the I did correct these based on my notes so bank or agency bank or financial agency with drive-thru was planning board and without was a yes yep mhm
adult daycare as planning board and parking lot accessory use was planning board yeah yep it's good okay we need still need to define I was going to say parking lot accessory use yeah we need to define that within so many feet of the
principal use whatever that number is who would like to take that definition on for the next meeting probably not a definition it's like a footnote I think right is it a footnote yeah with a with a a measurement
who wants to take that on i can do that okay not quite start with 100 anybody else i'm not going to take it and Joel you may want to look at uh the parking bylaw there's a um off-site
shared parking um dimension i think it's like within 500 ft okay and and did an share something last time about that you did okay do you can you can she tell
us what it was so I don't have to go back and watch the video sure no no problem ian Soleski from Prince Low Bell for Loheed Martin um I believe it is the town of Wayland has um language in their zoning bylaw i think it is 500 ft so you can have um
accessory parking as long as it's within 500 ft of the principal use or property of the same owner i think they define it that way all right thank you sure i'll look that up too all right and then the next slide it was only the
um item 22 that needed the the number all right so Anita if you can make those changes and then we can update the slides that'd be great all right
um so let's jump to the next slide after this slide 13 14 14 all right so what I did here is I took the recommendations from Anita and
Mike along with the Loheed Martin items along with the discussion and kind of put it all together um made some interpretations which may or may not be
100% accurate um and this is what I came up with did I miss this in the No I added this i pulled everything together that we had talked about okay so that we're that's So you where you've designated the
residences on the west as being RB and you're saying that their entire property becomes RB okay so yeah so that's how that's how to interpret these labels is Okay so the the current Maxwell's property if you were to as it is zoned
now uh if are you this is a question Evan are you bound by the restriction of a budding residential as far as like a sideyard setback because technically you're not
they're not a budding residential technically they're a budding CB currently right currently right yeah so if you h if you bring residential all the way up to the property line now you've added the residential restriction to that now now you get all those footnotes part so that was the that was
the only thing I was questioning was do you not want to bring the RB fully up to the property line so I interpret this exercise to try to clean up the zoning map yes y to answer
your question Joel the once any time prior to town meeting vote a private property owner can file an ANR plan to freeze the zoning so they have legal mechanisms
to lock in the zoning where they're above where they're not abuing residential and then that zoning freeze is good for either six years or eight years depending upon what what submission they make to the planning board but I thought it was you freeze
the zoning on your property not the zoning on somebody else's property and that's the issue here right um the issue here is that it's not they're not concerned about their property they're concerned about the fact that the budding property is currently zone zone CB and will become RB and thereby Yeah
so that's why I mentioned at the last meeting um if you choose to ch fix the zoning map they're either going to come in as a as a pre-existing non-conforming structure right which there isn't one
there now so not down in that area i feel like I feel like if you wanted to put up a shed like a building structure to house some whatever right so this is where this is where ultimately hopefully the plan between fixing creating the CB light fixing the
use table applying reasonable dimensional and applying cooid those those that combination of of tools the hope and desire is that when a property owner comes in that the board
is has the ability to work with it again understanding that this is a good example and if you apply it to you know the mill example it's the same difference all of these sites are currently challenged with zoning compliance and they will be
so the combination of tools is intended to send a message to a to a developer that we will work with you you know reasonably work with you but you're making it you know you're you're just because the you the
dimensional table says increase to 100 you're not going to be able to apply that you're either not going to be able to apply it legally because they're going to come in and say we're already pre-existing non-conforming or we're coming in under seoid and to what extent do you have the
willingness to work with us so that's why I'm saying you know that that footnote on 100 ft is usually for like a vacant piece of property like like on Riverneck but for redevelopment you can't apply it now and you won't really be able to apply it moving forward right
but there should be some relief in the overlay yeah the overlay provides significant relief i mean that's why that's why it doesn't in the IIA zoning district i think it applied the 100 foot setback
those those those lots are really big right but I don't think it applied 100 foot setback in this the CB right in this village right well I would be I would be interested in Lockheed's analysis if they were so inclined to look at what
the ramifications would be of this proposal and whether they think that having the zone extend past their property line and how far or whether they think it's adequate with the proposed zoning that that we're looking
at i' I'd be interested in that input now these properties on this like the long end of the CD light they're putting in there are they currently RB i thought they were something different yeah the So
the front half of the properties on Parkerville are RB the back half are CB because I remember the um the owner of the first home wants to keep it CB cb actually yeah he's mostly CB except for
that little corner he cla he he mentioned that he had a business historically right no longer does right but it was largely agricultural and I think that he was already covered under the agricultural just check he's lo he's likely lost all um grandfathering status
unless he has an active a use all right okay hm and then the proposal to change the uh townowned lots to public i like that
um extend the lot above the the public to CA towards the back of that property um extend the public on the pond street to
the back so let's We are running short on time um let's table this give it some thought we'll ask for Lockheed's feedback uh for the next meeting
um and I will Are there any other comments or questions from the board before I open it up briefly to the public okay anyone from the public want to speak briefly hi good evening everyone uh my name is
Anthony Pitman i'm the general manager for the Lockheed Martin site located in Chumsford on 16 Maple Road just a quick update last time I spoke with you I it was about a month ago when we actually formally expressed our interest in uh 24 Maple uh just a quick update i know it's been a little bit of a journey with
concurrency of zoning and then negotiating and making a business case but happy to share that as of yesterday we did get our internal approval to proceed with negotiations with the 24 Maple Road uh broker and seller so we officially submitted a couple hours ago the letter of intent to the broker um so
we're going to start that process as well um and then we did take the action for the next meeting to kind of o see how all this data is over overlaying with our concepts because as we mentioned before we want to be transparent with our neighbors but we've got to be compliant to the zoning and
we've got to try to make it all match so we've got the action to make sure we overlay it y'll bring put some thought and see how it all plays together and see if we can uh present that okay thank you and just back to Joel's question i'm going to ask councel that question okay thank you
because you make a good point if if the abuing land is being reszoned and it has a direct impact to what extent would a zoning freeze cover the adjacent parcel yeah okay all right so on this topic next meeting we will um Someone else
wants to speak oh sorry sorry sorry about that again I'm Ann Soilleski from Prince Low Bell for Loheed Martin i just had a couple of comments um thoughts to make based on um the proposed definition that you were talking about for this kind of ultralight manufacturing so um
one of the things that that was in there um you you mentioned um you know wholesale sales or um consumer sales and so wholesale sales wouldn't necessarily cover what my client sells they're not a wholesaler um the other thing that I
would say is that what you're doing by adding that in is you're creating um you know a definition of what this use is based on who the ultimate consumer is of the product that is being created which you don't have in the other two
districts so you're ratcheting down something um in that way you would want to make sure that you're not you know creating potential problems by doing that when you don't have it in the other two um and then the other thing I'd say is that you know where you've got that
use of moderate amounts of products and smaller scale those kinds of words are subject to you know subjective interpretation of what's going on and you don't really have them in the other two sections so it's possible that maybe
not us because you know what we do and you know we're here being transparent but somebody in the future could have a use that might be legitimate and a different board could say "Oh no that's not what we mean when we say you know smaller scale or moderate amounts." So
it's kind of judgmental that language um the only other thing I wanted to say is when I was here the last time um and we were talking about um the setbacks you know I know I know we were going through the setbacks again today and there is
the flexibility with the sead um but again that Maxwell site is a very very strange property and I'm sure there are other properties that are also very strange and I don't know whether maybe not necessarily us but just looking towards you applying this in other
districts also So um you know maybe you have somebody who wants to do a redevelopment that it's not a full sead and you could you could conceivably in the table in the base zoning setback table give yourself the flexibility if
they come to you for site plan review to modify some of those side or rear yard setbacks so I just I very quickly typed this up and I can I can give it to you um this is just a rough draft but you you could say something like the
planning board shall have the discretion to reduce setback um or screening requirements during the site plan review process for redevelopment projects on property located within the CBLT zoning district that would give you more flexibility just overall it's just a
thought thank you sure i appreciate that yeah you make some good points words like moderate and small scale are just asking for a fight in superior court that's why it's a quick draft they're just asking for a fight all
right anyone else all right um so for next meeting we will um really dig into the um properties and assigning the the zoning um we will uh finish the discussion on the parking lot footnote
that Joel will give us um we'll get the feedback from Loheed Martin um and we'll re I'm hoping to wrap this up uh next meeting um for that and then we can start addressing the um mill as well uh
next meeting yeah cool okay sounds good now you guys have to fly um I want to finish the rest of this meeting really quick and then we'll take off start talking fast yep and should we also the the rest of us be looking at the area around the mill to see if there's other
things we want to Yes look at that entire area around the mills because as I was looking at some of the we would end up doing something similar as we're doing here it wouldn't be just that one property it would be looking at you should look at this map that's attached to the agenda
okay this highlights i had a hard time with that so I went into the GIS for that space similar to what we did on this and I just looked at the um that area of the GIS with the zoning overlay on it and then looked at
how we might be able to adjust some of the the areas is that IIA abuing residential yes this is IIA great thank you yeah no I I really like that because the last map had CB and IIA yeah this is the IIA good thank you is that attached to the agenda yes okay all right so the
new one is twice just to make sure want to make sure you saw it Joel just to make sure all right leaison updates say center village didn't meet two weeks ago so nothing to update you there
last week I had my first NIMCOG meeting as the new liaison to that um don't won't get into too much specifics but it was good we we know Kelly and we know Chris from previous experience with some of our they have assisted us with MBTA zoning and it was good to meet the group
okay any other updates anita STA yeah and Vinyl Square yeah vinyl Square met last night they reelected members um Mike was hanging on to that one which was fun uh there was a
there was a lot of concern from um in Vinyl Square when they were talking about I I don't have the letter that they received i didn't get that yet but they were talking about they believe it was the parking being reduced for electric cars um and there's big
concerns about the redevelopment taking up parking that a lot of the business owners were concerned with in the area because they said parking is already pretty constrained there um there was another comment about the public parking there um apparently the back half of the public parking area there is on a
25-year lease and the lease is up next year and it has new owners um so there was again concern with not exactly sure what's going to happen with that parking as well um they're not meeting again until June
um but they they just brought up a couple other smaller things i don't know what you all normally report out on on these liaison things like what information you want to know and if that helps that was pretty good yeah that was good yeah okay
there's plenty of parking in pay isn't there come on down wow plenty of parking where it all dig you're fresh
um for Concom oh one more thing i guess the Sorry go ahead uh one more thing i guess the clock that they were installing in there they did get the funding for it's on order and will be installed so that was the only other thing I had excellent excellent for Concom um it was they
didn't have any uh uh regulatory uh items last night but they did do a lot of discussion they um did their gap analysis and submitted it uh they're trying to figure out what the next steps are I guess uh so they're reaching out
to board of health um to figure that out um they're looking to start a student intern program with a number of environmental studies students um at the local universities um so that's kind of cool that's great they are they did a
great uh Carl did a great presentation on land management summary an inventory of all their sites and what needs to be done um related to uh some of the upkeep that they're looking at doing um they
did vote to terminate the Concomou um with costs last night uh and they're looking at a different way of maintaining their properties um and I think that's it um they'll be
talking about that more in the next meeting all right um I did submit the questionnaire um I compiled the the answers that I got added some of my own the document is uh linked to the agenda
tonight if you want to take a look um pretty consistent to what we've been talking about in the meetings no big surprises um but as the concom is I'm very interested to see what the next steps are i'm hoping it's just more
discussion and more analysis and not just compiling this and making a recommendation so if you have any insight into that from the board of health it'd be good to Yeah I'll let you know find out from them what the next step is they don't talk a lot but
maybe if you could ask them um it would also be good to get a plan from them of what the process is going to be i'll ask thanks that'd be great yeah and thank you guys for compiling and cooling and
not a problem having those answers um all right the meeting minutes i will give you a motion to accept them no I will not no you have a problem table these again yeah table them again what I would like to do is if you've got corrections please send them to Evan
Becky and myself before the next meeting um in hopefully in the next week so that Becky can actually make the updates and then get us a It's Anita and Mike that did the I know not Joel and that's true that keeps coming up
and and as I said I I am not entirely sure that who moved and who seconded isn't reversed on an awful lot of those so I don't think that matters if you could shoot us an email Becky Evan and myself with those concerns um within the next week so that Becky can make the
edits and then we can get a clean version for next meeting i'd appreciate it all right any uh top anything that of special note for our next meeting any new projects coming in so
far uh not that I'm aware of cool so what is on the agenda for next meeting kate's Corner that's it the CB light discussion okay i'm sure you know maybe item or something yep we got to come up with a
name did you go to CB light is not a good name what's that Anita i I was just going to mention if we hit we're going to do other business or new business um I did attend the um neighborhood meeting for the Riverneck
Road project yesterday oh good yep there was about I would say like I don't know like 12 or so um neighbors um that did come and um voice their concerns um the developer
listened to them you know similar concerns from what we had with the um distribution center with the trucks okay and they said they would be back
probably submitting something in four to six weeks so um and one thing they did say was that they were going to send out a letter to the abuters when they were going to have the meeting um the next meeting that was going to be scheduled with the planning board
okay thank you i will take a motion to adjurnn i can do that i'll second motion by Mike second by Deedra actually it's a roll call vote because we've got two people on Zoom
so uh Sera I don't I'm not allowed to vote oh yes you're right thank you anita um yay yes Marcy
Dearra hi John hi Joel hi Mike hi and I'm an I we are ajourned thank you everyone