started. Good evening. It is 6:30 on Wednesday, July 9th, and I'm calling this meeting of the Chsford Planning Board to order. My name is Chris Levali, and I'm the chair of the board. Tonight, we will be following the posted agenda. Uh this
meeting tonight is uh in person and I know that we do not have Joel here tonight. Um Evan, is there anyone on Zoom? No. Okay. Um we do have Zoom available. If people do want it, they can email Evan.
Um if Zoom does fail at any point in the meeting, we will continue uh the meeting in person. The meeting is being televised live and recorded via Chelsea Media and will be available on their website and on YouTube for future viewing.
All right, first item on the agenda is public input. Uh public input shall be limited to statements from the public relating to any issues within our jurisdiction but are not the subject of a pending public hearing or before the board or on the agenda tonight. So, is
there anyone from the public wishing to provide any comments during public input? Seeing there are none, we will move on to the next agenda item and that is 5155 Middle Sex Street and 70 Princeton Street, also known as the
landing at Chumsford Mills. And this is the uh resoning uh the second area that we are considering for resoning uh from IIA to CBLT. Um last meeting we reviewed the parcels,
took a look at some of the uh suggestions and um I updated the error in the table uh that you caught um updated that for the public hearing slides as well
uh for Kate's Corner and CBLT and in these slides and also updated all of the parcels um labeled all of the individual parcels that it's clear what stays and what is changed. Um
are there any comments from the board from the use table? Um, one of the things is a small warehouse. And just for point of clarification, what is the I I didn't look it up. I meant to, but
what's the parameters for a small warehouse? Is that from your um is that from your warrant article, Chris? Yes. So, is that less than 50? Less than 20.
Uh, less than 20, I believe. Okay. If I remember correctly. Do you know, Evan? I'm gonna look at the definition right now. So, I guess if it's so so small, I just wanted to bring it up and see if we
wanted to think about making that. I think it's a no for the CV light and thinking of those structures, those businesses within this mill that are currently quasi
distribution or warehouse or something in that ilk. Um, do we want to think about maybe making the small one planning board as opposed to a no? Yeah. The challenge with that though is if you
get a st a freestanding warehouse that might be coming before us in various areas that we might not want it. Whereas in this particular case um right it's a little bit more contained within
the larger structure so it's not as impactful. But if it was freestanding, it might be a little bit more impactful to the neighbors. Okay. So, that'd be my only concern with that. And the owner does know that by going down this route, we would be essentially
those would become non-conforming, pre-existing. Non-conforming pre-existing. Yeah. Okay. I just was thinking about it and thought it merited a reflection. I mean, what are other people's thoughts? I think we clearly define what a distribution center is.
Well, that's a no. Yeah, but a warehouse. So, where's I'm just looking at warehouse. We got small. Those are all nos. Warehouse is a no. Yeah, I guess because again, this is the whole intent of this is to butt
residential and I don't think warehouses are very attractive to but residential. Like that's not the intent of this ZB CB light. It's to make that nice transition, right? That's why we have IIA. Go build your warehouse in IIA where people can't see it. It's not abing
people's homes. Yeah. Um, fair. Okay. Other people have a thought. It does raise a question. How much storage does an enterprise have to have before
that storage becomes a warehouse? If I remember the discussion there is a there is obviously for for things incidental to a retail business that's not correct or a warehouse I mean or manufacturing point
along that spectrum you would think of a transition. If I remember the discussion we had at that time, it was related to the primary use of the Yes. So if the primary use is warehousing, then it would be a warehouse, right? If the warehousing is a secondary use
to manufacture something to manufacture something, then it's not a warehouse. Yeah. But I'm I'm wondering you you can have a big manufacturing operation in a small holding area and it's not a warehouse. Correct. Or you could have a small manufacturing
thing with a big storage area. When does it I guess it I it's when when you transition the primary the majority of whatever is the highest real estate square footage bring. Okay. So it's would be done by square footage. Yep.
Okay. I think that's fair. Yeah, I think it's completely fair. Okay. Anything else on this? I also summarized on the the slide after the map um which
parcels would get reszoned to what which was helpful. Yep. I found that very helpful. So, and that was the same formatting as we did for Kate's Corner. So, it's a good idea to carry that. Has there been any
feedback from the owner or from any of the tenants or I mean other than the fact that they asked or the abutters or so there's been no there's been no abutter engagement. The only property owner that's engaged
in this process so far is the mill property owner who made the initial request. Yeah. Okay. I think I think Chris has some information for the board as you know next steps and moving forward. Yeah. So, um just out of curiosity, are
there any butters or neighbors to this area in the audience that wanted to speak on this? Okay. Um so the next step on this uh would be to bring it to the vinyl square
um group uh at the end of this month I believe is their next meeting. Um as part of that I also want to do some outreach to the neighbors um and talk to them talk to the vinyl square
group about how they prefer doing that. Um I don't think this is going to be ready for fall town meeting at all. Uh so we'll have some time to go through that process and uh interact with the abutters and uh the neighbors uh before
we go into a formal public hearing like we did with Kate's Corner. Evan, to that point, have the abutters been notified of so far of this of these proceedings for Middle Sex tree area? Yeah. No. No. Okay,
perfect. Okay. Anything else? Yeah, I wanted to wait until we uh engage with the vinyl square group first to talk to them about how they prefer to engage neighbors and things like that and what their thoughts are.
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And I figured there's no rush since we're not going to uh town meeting with this yet. Oh, just scratched. Okay. Okay. Just check. Thanks. All right. Um
so the next agenda item um is not 7 o'clock so we can't start the public hearing yet. Um 300 Bill Ricka Road. Are you guys ready to
come before us tonight or Yes. Okay. Excellent. So if you're ready we can take you now. Sure. Andrew Ty for the applicant nexus recovery looking for a special permit for 300 Bill Rucker Road. I think this is our third meeting. Um I think there were two outstanding
issues per the last meeting. Uh we've provided revised plans that submitted um to Evan Palansky via email to address the snow storage issue. there was an issue with the snow storage not being in places that were appropriate and um
revised plans have been submitted which show the snow storage going to the back of the lot uh on a paved area and then the second issue was discussion regarding the proposed or the issue of whether or not a sidewalk could be constructed out front.
Could you do me a favor and raise the microphone? Thanks. Um the the second issue was whether or not a sidewalk could be constructed out front. Um the owners, engineers, design team met with DPW. Um they spent some time going over the
issue and I did a driveby because I wasn't familiar with it and I guess there's a large drop off there. So DPW's um submitted a letter. I don't know if the boards received it. I do have a copy of that letter and um they indicated that um from DPW's perspective, the
proposal to extend the sidewalk from 270 Bill Rick Road to the intersection allowing people to cross the road is an acceptable alternative for them. Um given the feasibility, the you know excessive cost of trying to put a sidewalk in front of 300 Bill Ricker
Road. So, um I think we're I don't know if everyone's familiar with the that 270 Bill Ricker Road, I drove by there. I guess there's a building going up there. So, they must be putting a sidewalk in front of that building which is flat. It seems quite feasible. Um but this
sidewalk would allow obviously people to cross the road and continue. There's a sidewalk the entire length of the road on the other side of the road. And frankly, there isn't a sidewalk on the 300 Bill Ricka road side. So, um, adding adding a sidewalk there doesn't seem to
really accomplish much as long as people can cross the street. Okay. So, I don't have anything else unless the board has questions. Evan, I noticed we don't have the plans on the same thing. Yeah. Um, I don't recall them coming in, but I was
out of the office uh last week. Um, so we'll track those down. Okay. And Becky didn't say anything to me about they likely came in. Okay. Yeah, I did email them. I don't know if anyone dropped off a hard copy, but all it did, I don't know if you recall, the snow storage was on a grassy area to the
left of the building and also abudding the building on the right hand side and now it's moved to the back of the lot. They're both on grassy areas. Yeah, the snow storage is now proposed for this area here. And did you keep the green space? They kept the green space over here. We're just converting the number of
spaces. I don't know, maybe 17, I think. I think it was 17. Yeah. And then the the little I don't know what like arrowshaped place that was also going to be snow storage. No. So is that green? This is green space. Yeah. So the snow
storage is going to be in one spot. It's kind of here but the green space was it is a green space and that will still remain staying and this is being converted. Perfect. If the board would like it converted from parking spaces to green space and then the the sidewalk is obviously that.
Now, where you pointed out for the new snow storage, is that going over the parking area or No, no, it's in I think this is the designated parking area for my client, the hashed areas. So, snow storage would be in this area here. Okay. Paved. So, no, it's paved, but it looks like it's also marked as parking
spaces. They are parking spaces. Snow would go on those parking spaces. And then we had discussed the possibility that I mean I think it was your sense which it didn't seem to come up in the DPW's comments that the DPW or andor the town
eventually plan to sidewalk both sides and so we had discussed the possibility of having granting of the owner granting an easement. Yeah. So I just received uh an email from Christine Clansancy DPW director. She probably anticipated this coming up.
Her email says um the area of 300 Bill Ricker Road was not identified as a section in the town's sidewalk master plan to add sidewalks. There is current there is no current plan to add sidewalks on this side of Bill Rick Road. Oh, okay.
So, that's good clarifying information. Okay. Um, are you also planning to Is there also a plan to put plantings in that green space or is it going to stay? I think right now it's just designated as as a grassy area. Okay.
I I I don't think the owner would mind if the board would like something there. That's not an issue. I think some plantings would be good. Yeah, I agree. It's not a major undertaking. I know the sustainability committee likes the tree cover. Yes. For the parking areas. tree canopies are
good. Um and then the other question I had was LA in our first meeting there was discussion about the um first floor being a limited area for the
client's use with the my client's leasing the whole building. Okay. But I guess let's call it phase one. Phase one is to put the beds the occupancy on the second floor for patients and the first floor they
don't need the entire space for administration. So it's really just the area that they're occupying on the first floor. There was a plan that's was submitted is really just kind of centrally located. So people would come in the entrance and that would be kind of built out for the administration on
the first floor. Second floor would be occupied. And I believe you recall my client testifying that the first floor they hope to expand in it to possibly put activities and other things and ancillary services for the patients and things of that nature.
Would there be any opposition to a special uh condition to come before the board again if there were additional um expansion on that first floor? I think that's fair. Okay. Beyond the plan that was submitted. Yeah.
Yes. Okay. Are there any other questions? Not here. All right. I think I don't usually like to vote on a project without the final plans before us. So, I think I would like to continue this for one more
meeting. Um, we'll take a quick look at the plans next meeting and I think it would be a pretty quick vote. Um assuming there are no more issues that come up. Um so before the next meeting um it would
be good to also add some plantings to that. Sure. And then do we have the on andm? Yeah. So the also for the on and m plan, it would be good to make sure that the
snow storage locations are outlined in the O andM plan. Um so anytime that a snow contractor does plow, uh they can refer to the O andM plan because most contractors won't look at the build plans.
Yeah, true. Uh, anything else? All right. Um, I will entertain a motion. You, uh, let's see. What you need here is a motion to continue the public hearing. Yep. To our next meeting, which is July 23rd.
Second. Uh, motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor say I. I. I. All opposed. unanimous. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good evening. See you next meeting. All right. We still cannot do the public
hearings yet. So we will move to the growth strategy. That all right. So last meeting we talked about the managed growth strategy um task force. Um
I have not approached any of the boards yet. I wanted to just double check to make sure that we're okay with the approach of two planning board, one select board, 2020 master plan members, one two
uh strategic plan committee members, two town meeting reps, two at large, and then one concom. And what I can do is work with Evan to start the invitations. We'll collect the names. Um, I'm sure there's going to be some overlap. So, if
there's overlap, we can figure out what the final count would be and then see if we need to pair it down a bit. Um, John, you said you'd put together some information for September. Okay,
absolutely. All right. So, I'll work with Evan on that and we can start getting that group ready uh in August for potentially a September October ramp up. Okay.
Anything else on that topic? All right. Still have more time. Well, I guess I have a quick question. Yeah. Of procedure. Yep. So, we have this um proposal for
Chumsert Street and I noticed that they had included the site plan review sustainable checklist which made me realize that I haven't really been seeing that. Um, so I don't know how we could get it to
be the case that that's part of the packet from applicants on a routine basis, I believe. Is it only for like major redevelopment projects? I think so. Right. New projects. I' I've been primarily uh
requiring it for like major new construction or major redevelopment or expansion. So what about the um 270 was that preede this um sustainable check
the original approval uh I don't recall it probably predated it. Okay. Well, anyway, I just wanted to raise my hand, say, yeah, it's been it's been a while since the board's seen one. I think the last
one was part of 150 North Road. Um, the car wash should have had one. I can't recall. I think it did, if I remember correctly. Yeah, it's So, it's been submitted. You know, to what extent the board
is is using that as a primary um review document. Um, and I'm not suggesting it was intended for that purpose. Um, clearly the clearly all were aware that there are a variety of other priority issues as part of a regulatory review.
Of course, uh, but the sustainability checklist is there in the event, you know, the board um, wants to uh, build capacity uh, related to, you know, sustainability efforts. What I've noticed though is
that some of that stuff is already in what we usually look for like bike racks and stuff like that, sidewalks. Um, some of it though I don't think goes far enough in some spots. So it might be worth revisiting. Did that checklist
come from the sustainability committee? It came through that process. Okay. And then um just last night the the LI naturebased um solutions task force met. We're we're
reviewing um three proposals to select a consultant. So that deliverable could be used to um make the uh sustainability checklist within naturebased and le
robust. Okay. That might be a good thing to keep in mind. We should have an overflow space. I was just going to ask that. Um, my suggestion on the overflow is if if
the board's going to Are you going to start with the zoning public hearings? Yeah. Then people who are here for um Chumstra Street um can either go into
uh 205 uh room 200 across the hall just to make some extra room for people who want to sit and participate in the zoning public hearing. Okay. Would that be acceptable?
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. All right, we will um I guess we could do liaison updates at this point. Does anyone have any leazison updates?
There's a um DBA meeting tomorrow that I'll be attending. So I don't have one for this time around. Well, I liazed with the historical commission uh that nothing in particular to report there of any interest to us. But there's another thing I'd like to
bring up which is the uh uh the master plan implementation committee. We were going to have a meeting this coming week. I think Evan, we going to move that given that we have a bunch of people that can't make it. The July 17th will not work for most people. Yeah, it's not going to work for most
people, but it will be coming up soon. And one of the things on it is uh the uh planning board's uh tasks um under that plan. And I just wanted to let you know and and figure
out how uh we might want to present that. You might just want to come. I don't it's it's not a it's not a heavy lift. When is it? Well, we don't know yet. Did this exercise once before? Yeah. Yeah. So, it's the same same exercise. Is this just a year later
in transit in process blah we can put it on for the July 23rd meeting as a group or if the chair just wants to p Yeah, let's just quickly review it at the 23rd meeting and then Okay. Yeah, I think we should just just go over it quickly and then if necessary
I could present it or or Evan can present it. We're both reasonably familiar with it. Okay. So that's coming up. All right. And then we had the LI the committee for looking into the con to uh consultants for that but again not much
in particular to report. It's kind of we had our first meeting last night which was mostly organizational. Yeah. Like looking at we all looked at the we had the request for proposal. We had three proposals to review and then rank
on various criteria and basically um we went around the table and talked about people's thoughts on pluses and minuses of each of the three proposals and then made a strategy to go forward which is we're going to interview all three firms. We couldn't we couldn't get
we couldn't jettison any of them. Yeah, they were they were all pretty close in terms of ranking kind of clustered. Um and then we're developing questions for those interviews and those will take place at the end of the month hopefully assuming their availability and then we'll make a
decision with a target to I don't know what you want to call it go live in early September. Sounds good. Okay. And then I just wanted to also say the housing production plan is there's a draft of it that's available under the
housing advisory board uh from the uh town's uh news flash homepage and it's in comment period right now. So if people have a lot of time and want to review 150 pages of housing production plan draft from NEMCOG um we would love
some comment that that was that's required to be uh presented and approved by the planning board as well as the select board. So uh NIMCOG is um hoping to present it to the planning
board on July 23rd. The comment period closes uh Monday, July 21st. How long do you think that presentation's going to be? Um no more than 10 15 minutes. It's just a few slides. Okay. Few slides for 100 something page report.
Yeah, you did a good job of a lot. Like most reports is a large existing conditions assessment and then action on item. So that's how it's broken down. Okay. Sen is meeting tomorrow. We're going to be talking about the uh Cushing Place
bridge um and their thoughts on it. They also have a presentation from NEMA coming in on the Chster Street project and the scope of work and then also going to be talking about um the placeholder of traffic improvement from Mass DOT which looks to be putting stop
lights on Chumsford Street at 495. So I'll know more about that after tomorrow's meeting. Both sides. Yes, both sides. So which is going to be a lot of stop plates in a very Both sides. Yes. Okay. So, it's gonna be a lot of stop lightss
in a road there. Interesting. Yeah. I'm waiting to get some more information about that. So, all right. Uh Con met last night. Uh they had a reorg meeting. Uh
same people uh in charge. Uh Carl is still the chair and Chris Garan is still the vice. Um so, no change there. Uh they had a pretty light meeting yesterday. Uh no no big uh issues that
came up. Um and nothing else to report from them. Any other reports? Doesn't happen. I know it doesn't usually happen. Just for NIMCOG, Chris. So I'll have a NIMCOG council meeting next Wednesday and uh other than that I have no other
report at this time. Okay. All right. So, it is almost 7. Um, Evan, do we need to read that into the record?
No, just just uh just make it make it clear that you're opening the public hearing. All right. It being 7:00, I am now opening the public hearing for the proposed zoning bylaw amendments. Um, we
will take that first. Um, so my plan is to run through the slides of all of the uh proposed amendments first um so that people can see what we're proposing and
then I will likely do about 10 minutes of um or quick round of comments from the board and then about 10 minutes of questions um from the uh public and comments from the public. Um
we I will keep this open probably into August to give people a chance to digest the information to uh provide feedback uh in person and via email. Um but we wanted to make sure
that people had enough chance to see the information and provide feedback. Um there are a lot of zoning amendments. Uh so I didn't want to take up the entire meeting tonight with this and given the fact that we're going to continue it for a few meetings. Um I figured a 10-minute
time limit on each uh article would be uh sufficient. By the way, 10 minutes at the most. We don't have to do 10 minutes because there's there may be some articles that uh don't have any comments.
All right. So, I will do the CB light zoning first. Do you mind, It might be in your slides. I'm not sure, but do you mind or would you feel comfortable just kind of recapping in a kind of thumbnail sketch like what's driving this, what we're
trying to accomplish? That's in my slides. Cool. All right. So, the what and why. Um, so there are a number of zoning conflicts I that have been identified in town. Um, and there are number of
options to mitigate these. Uh, overlays are good for expanding options available to a property. Uh, but if we're looking to restrict or to adjust things, then changing the zoning underlying is usually the best option. Uh, we don't want to negatively impact zones in other
parts of town where there are no zoning conflicts. So opting to create a new zone specifically designed uh for this application made the most sense to the board. Um looking at the conflict areas, we used
Kate's corner as a model. Um and we also, as you saw earlier tonight, uh used the um Middle Sex Street area as another uh pressure test for this zoning.
So, we decided to create a new zone called CB Lite. Um, it's the solution that we see as most effective for at least some of the zoning conflicts that we have in town related to IIA zones. Uh, we're going to we're planning to use this as a transition zone between IIA
and other zones like residential zones uh to ne to lessen the negative impacts to other nonIA zones. And as I mentioned, uh, once we do create this, we're looking to apply it at town meeting to Kate's Corner, um,
potentially to the 150 or the 51 to 57 Middle Sex Street area, uh, and even maybe, uh, down the road to Riverneck. We've got to take a look at that. So, there are a number of actual changes uh, to the bylaws uh, that this new zone
uh, necessitates. Uh we do need to create a new zoning district. We have to update the use table for the new zone. We are updating the dimensional requirements for the new zone. The the CIOD dimensional requirements and
applicability. We uh update the properties uh for the new zone. We update the street frontage for the new zone. and we're creating a
new use defined for this zone as well as adjusting the current use of light manufacturing. So, we're also looking to apply this new zone in separate article as I mentioned to Kate's Corner. Um, and then those are the other two areas uh that we're
looking to uh potentially apply this to uh possibly more. So the use table um we've been over this is quite an eye chart um but it is available um in our slides uh where we
really look at a balance between the CB which is the commercial district and the IIA uh and what parts of the the commercial district would be uh good to abut residential
and abut um IA as well. So, I'm not going to go through these. You can refer to those. Um, can you go back one more? So, there is a an accessory use parking lot uh footnote
that we have added uh as one of the uh changes to the use table footnotes as well. dimensional requirements. Uh again, we we were looking at a balance between the CB and the IIA. Uh and for the um
footnote 7 is what we added in uh for the side and rear setbacks looking at what made the most sense for this zone. This is a slide that has the seed uh purpose and intent uh just to give you
some background on that overlay. We didn't we're not changing anything there. And these are the site and building requirements for that overlay that we have added in. Uh
we've also increased the minimum uh we're budding residential used property uh from 25 to 30 ft. Other changes that mirror the CB zoning characteristics uh update to the property line landscaping for new zone
and updates the street frontage for the new zone as well. So, we've also looked at our uh current manufacturing definitions. The the current heavy manufacturing does not change. I just added that for reference.
The manufacturing light uh does change and I think I have a slide in here that shows what is actually changed. Yeah, if you can go two slides forward. So, that's the markedup version of the
light manufacturing. Uh, we've clarified some of the wording in here to make it uh aligned with the ultra light manufacturing definition that we're adding. Um, we've also uh clarified
that some of those materials in there were it was unclear what the if it was the manufacturing of the plastic itself or plastic uh products. So, we clarified that.
And then if you can go back one, we've added the ultralight manufacturing definition. um really containing the manufacturing operations. Uh we've provided some examples in here.
Uh limited loading infrastructure and tractor trailer use uh are two characteristics that we've included and it also excludes the heavy industrial activities. And and Chris, can I just interrupt here
real quick? Yeah. And the purpose of this again is to you know manufacturing has a lot of industrial connotation well uses right industrial and the CB light it's proposed as the buffer between
IIA industrial and neighborhoods. So creating a CB manufacturing light that allows some work on a smaller scale makes sense to me, right? That's the purpose just to
kind of keep that. That's why we have ultralight is in CB light, right? And we have manufacturing light is in the IIA and the CB. And what is ISF again? I don't know. Special industrial. special industrial
which I don't even know. Do we have much in town for that? It's all town owned. Okay. Okay. All right. So, that's the first one. The second one is Kate's Corner Reszoning. So again, our goal here is to create
this new zone as a solution for the zoning conflicts um to lessen the negative impacts of potential IIA uses uh right up against residential areas. And um this proposal is applying our new
zone to Kate's Corner. So, these are the current parcels uh around the Kate's Corner area. Uh we've got the Loheed Martin building in the middle listed as IIA. We've got the Old
Maxwell's uh on the left listed as CB. Some of the residential areas are half CB, half RB. Uh top right, you've got the CA and CB down below. and then a budding
residential down below. So, looking at the uses on the ground, uh what we're proposing to reszone these two is uh listed up here. Um we're proposing to align
the uses in the um the zoning to what's actually happening on the ground. So, the residential will become residential. public areas will become public. Uh and then this the new CB light uh will
replace the IIA and then expand out from there for the other uh CB light potential areas. And this just gives a listing of what the parcels are, uh, what they are currently and what they are, what we're
proposing to reszone them to. Okay, next one. Massage establishments. So, this proposed bylaw change came about um as a request from the uh building commissioner um based on a
current situation where a massage therapist was moving across uh the street from one office to another uh and uh it wasn't zoned as a massage uh establishment. So, there was some
confusion about that. Um there was also some uh language in there referring uh in section D uh to the Chsford Board of Health uh for the um licensing and massage therapists are actually not uh
licensed by the board of health but they're licensed by the state. Uh so we've updated that as well. Um what we've essentially done is taken the state definition of uh massage and uh
replaced our old definition with that um and then referred to the licensing uh the state licensing uh bylaw for the section D. We've also um we're also proposing uh to
make things simpler for spas and uh uh therapeutic areas proposing to make this uh a by right usage instead of the um board of appeals and that is that article.
The next one, the definition of family. So, this one came up at the last town meeting um because in a uh recent zoning uh review by the attorney general's office, uh they found a few areas of the
bylaws that were potentially problematic um and could potentially have some future lawsuits coming uh our way. Um the current definition that we have is unlawful and it will open us up to civil
action and overturn decisions. Um I we did propose a definition at springtown meeting and it did fail. Uh since then I have done some additional research uh with other definitions across the state.
We have um revised the proposal a bit and now we're presenting the updated proposal. Um, actually if you can go back uh one more actually these are the older slides.
Um, all right. So I will Can you go back one more? All right. Go forward. All right, I'll uh I'll make sure that we have the up updated version attached. Um but essentially, you can stay on this
one for a few minutes, but essentially um zoning regulates the use of land and not personal relationships or family composition. Our current definition is not inclusive of different household types and familial connections are impossible to determine through building
permit and uh occupancy reviews. enforcement would be uh could be intrusive. Um so in addition to that, we are really looking at defining the use of the land and not trying to change a society definition of a family.
Um in terms of enforcement, property owners are responsible for compliance. uh when zoning enforcement is requested and someone thinks that there's a violation, then the town uh inspector would go out and uh figure out what the
uh the zoning is. In terms of how this relates to other codes and regulations, uh we do have a building code which regulates construction and fire safety. The state sanitary code regulates the number of people who can occupy a unit based on
size. The state licensing law regulates lodging houses, hotels and the occupancy tax um is related to hotels and guest accommodations. So in researching other towns um
one or more persons occupying a dwelling unit and living together as a single housekeeping unit. This is the definition that's been used by around 150 100 to 150 of the 351 uh towns and cities in Massachusetts. Um
I listed some examples of other towns here that have used this definition or something similar. Some of the towns and cities have added uh wording at the end as distinguished from a group occupying a boarding house, group home, lodging house, club, fraternity, or hotel. A few
towns have kept the blood relative definition in there and added the word or and then this definition. So why do towns and cities use this language? Um there are really five reasons. The first is it it complies
with the fair housing act. It is the model language that a lot of the regional planning organizations use. its administrative simple simplicity and the state uh supreme judicial court
uh in cases uh s such as Amherst versus Board of Appeals of Welssley College and Commonwealth versus Jaffy have reinforced that the zoning bylaws must not discriminate based on familial status. And Commonwealth versus Jaffy is really
the pre precedent setting case for this. Um if you go to the next slide, they don't provide a definition in their decision. Uh but they do provide four aspects of what an ideal definition has.
And we've tried to include all four in our definition. And the fifth one is um the fifth reason why is that the cap on occupancy in the definition of family zoning could be found to conflict with byite ADUs. Um
that is a definition or a finding from the uh housing equal housing office in the state. So when looking at our definition, um we have had three objectives. Remove
references to the degree of kinship, update the definition to be more consistent with uh state law, and clarify the distinction between transient accommodations such as hotels. And so what we've proposed is uh
below in the underline one or more persons occupying a dwelling unit who share access to common living, cooking and eating areas and living together as a single housekeeping unit with permanence and cohesiveness. Okay,
next one. School impacts. Do the ADU one after I'm presenting all of these at fall town meeting. Yep. Oh god. He's going to be busy.
Be a forner. I think all right. I'll be back just in time. So during a recent um during that same review from the attorney general uh they found uh that the uh waiverss and consideration of
fiscal impacts which are the impacts to uh our town services from projects the land court has held that it's unlawful for a special permit granting authority to consider school impacts when reviewing multif family housing projects. Um so what we have done again
is we brought it to town meeting. It was combined with the um another zoning article at the time uh and both of those did fail. So what we've done is we've separated it out from the more controversial one and um we have not
changed anything on this one uh this time around. So what we have done is we've added the underlined uh text here um and removed the crossed out text.
Okay, final one. our ADU laws. During another recent zoning uh review from the attorney general's office, um
most of the ADU law bylaw that we did pass at our town meeting um was approved and found and the attorney general found no issues. However, there were two areas uh that they did find were problematic. Um and they did approve the bylaw with
uh on the condition of uh one deletion and one recommended change to address a potential second deletion. Uh town council has advised us on the wording of the uh update and we should be good to go on that.
So here um the recommended deletion from the attorney general is uh the text in striketh through here to lots and principal dwellings. Um the attorney general said that we can apply the dimensional standards to the principal
dwelling and not the lot. Um, in the updated text, it's really about making sure that we're not requiring uh special permits uh and forcing ADUs into the special permit
process. Uh so that is just clarifying language here. Okay, those are the presentations. Um, I'm probably not going to do this again uh in the next meetings. Um, but we can
address specific ones if people wish. Uh, so at this point um I will open it up to no more than 10 minutes of public comment on each of the zoning articles. Uh, first we will start with the CB light uh general uh zoning article
first. So, does anyone wish to speak to that article? I do. Come on up. Hey. Can you please state your name and uh your address? Yeah. So, Steve Kalsa, 11 Maple Road.
So, I'm just curious around the philosophy of zoning. Is zoning intended to be for the the current state in the past or is it intended to be future looking? Future looking. It is it it's intended to be future-looking. Um but often times
because of what has been done in the past um it does impact some of the zoning that has to happen in the future. Like for example, right? Yeah. um 129 that got reszoned in the past back in the 80s as IIA
it be like as much as we would you know some of us don't like what's being built there changing it now to RB like putting it back to RB because we're people are saying that you can't get office buildings there wouldn't do us any good and wouldn't make sense so we have to look at what's been zoned in the past
and how to make it so it's a bit of both I guess and That's what we're trying to do with the CB light, right? Like see what it's been zoned, how we can kind of make it better for the future. Yeah.
With what we've had in the past hand it to us. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just trying to figure out like what is the intention of the neighborhood, right? And so the other question is around how we will allocate our land next to things that are already existing. So other question is would we ever zone this new proposed
um zone next to any other school? Right. Is it industrial generally manufacturing generally something that we want next to schools? So we now we have three definitions of manufacturing. Yeah. Um
it really depends on what the area is. Um so here we may end up having an area because we're trying to lessen the impact of IIA. Um we may have this CB light next to a school. In other areas, we wouldn't put it in there because
there's no IIA there next to that school. In some areas, there may be. Yeah. And so, if you change the zoning, what happens? It's everything is grandfathered in as it is today, right? Okay. And then the other question is, would we also put this new zone next to
a well-loved and used uh pond and any other part of the town? So, again, we're we're trying to minimize the impact. Um, if we were if we were zoning this area from scratch,
probably not. But because we're having to work with the areas that are already there, the IIA that's already there, we're we're trying to minimize the impact and restrict the zoning. And and to be clear, like part of the problem is with this particular parcel,
Gates Corner, um, is it's like that's it's currently zoned IIIA. One of the pieces, the last thing you want is for the current owner to leave and you run into an incident that we ran into on Riverneck Road where someone wants to build a distribution center which is currently allowed. Right.
Right. Um so we recognize that the fact is there is an office building there. Um yes, it's across from the school. Would any of us probably put something like that there had we been on the board 40 50 years ago? Probably not. But that's
what happened. Um, so this CB light, um, which is why we put the ultra light manufacturing to fall into the CB light was specifically to buffer that, right? Um, we know that
it is what it is. Um, should the tenant leave and someone else comes in, it's an office building. We don't want a distribution center. We don't want um what was the other thing that was um manufacturing? No. Um the cost of big Maxwells when it
was being sold a contractor's yard. Yeah. Contractor. Like we you know we heard that these are the things we don't want next to residential. Right. Right. So that's kind of the thought process behind this zone. Yeah. I I totally understand the predicament that we're in. generally uh
when I look at planning if nothing's going to change any time until there's a turnover and um so first I appreciate you all looking out for the benefit of the the community and also for the neighborhood right so I totally get it we don't want industrial right next to a school or a pond my thought and I I just
really look out to the the rest of the community here is thinking about how do you want to use the land in the future this stuff isn't going to affect us or likely us is going to affect our children right and so if you look at into the future um how are we going to use this land I would propose that we do not use land for manufacturing next to
schools, next to one of our our gems um in ponds, right? Um the other thing is Lockheed, while they seem to have been a good neighbor, the question is around enforcement and and compliance. So the other question is who's monitoring the air quality? Because I hear a fan spin up, my brother um worked right across
the street from a Lockheed facility in Florida 5 years ago, mass class action lawsuit people with lots of cancer and other stuff because they were spewing toxins in the air, right? People had serious health issues, right? All right. And so the other question is if we're going to have a school right next to this manufacturing facility, who is
ensuring compliance, right? So that's one of the other things I'd consider um and I'd really ask all of you to consider as you make a decision. So thank you. Thank you. Thanks. My name is Bob Leaport. I live at 38 Parkerville Road and I just have a
couple of questions. Well, this proposed zoning and this is Case Connor I'm really focused on, but could we hold on that for a minute? This is more on the generalized. Thank you. Are there any other more generalized CB
light? All right. Now, we'll move on to the Kate's Corner. Sorry, I just want to make sure there was no one else. Um so Lheed Martin is the principal property that's going to be impacted by
this. So my question is given the uh use of Lheed Martin which I probably is light manufacturing whether that remains a uh a use that's consistent with the proposed zoning
change and whether or not whether the change meets dimensional requirements under the new zoning so the property doesn't become nonconforming in use and dimensions. Yes. Um that was
part of our our analysis of this was to make sure that we weren't um changing it so that it was no uh non-conforming. So it does it does conform to use and um dimensional.
So with regards to the accessory use uh of the zoning change and I'm thinking more of the Away property where it might be used for parking. Uh it's hypothetical, but in terms of the setback requirements,
uh if it were to be used for parking, does parking require the same setback requirements? So, for example, on the residential where it borders the residential and it's going to be I think 30 feet or in the front yard is 60 feet. Do they in
the parking use need to meet those dimensional requirements? Evan, I'm seeing you're looking it up now. It's not the same as the structures, what uh parking areas um 10 ft from a property line, 20 ft
from a street line, and then there are landscape buffer requirements adjacent to um residential properties. So I guess my my idea would be that uh
it those setback requirements might be increased where it abuts a residential district for this particular use to protect the uh the residents if they don't have to meet the you know for the parking because I suspect that's how
it's going to be used and there's landscaping requirements if it butts residential. Correct. Yes. Meaning like the screening like residential like the screening requirements if it abuts residential correct plus it requires uh planning
board approval site plan approval so it's fully engineered plans public hearing. Yeah. So, I understand, but the uh the dimensional requirements, I don't know if the planning board has the the authority to change if it's a 10-ft setback
from uh the side lot line that they could increase it for the Lockheed property to 25 ft. So, I guess that's what I'm saying. I think it's may be appropriate where parking use is going to be allowed as an
accessory use that the setback requirement be changed to give a greater buffer to the residential areas and you know parking is always a big thing with industrial property. So the
change from heavy industrial IIA to this new proposed district if it's a ultra light manufacturing use does that change the parking requirements per employee so they all stay the same? Yep.
Uh and I guess the uh I get two more comments on traffic. I think there was some things a planning board was take going to take into consideration for the impact of a project. I didn't see the word traffic in there and I
think that could be added because uh you know at Kate's Corner with the intersection of Maple and Actton Road there's a there's a traffic problem there today and uh I think some thought
should be given uh to traffic in any event no matter where the project is but in particular here we did we did consider traffic as one of the um one of the thought process that we were looking at this. Okay,
that is more project specific um and project specific um and so when projects come before us um we will almost always especially for these types of projects have a traffic study done. Um and so that that would be part of
that process. I guess the last thing is on parking lots and the fact that Hot Pond is in proximity to this. Uh you know, we all have concern about the water quality of Hot Pond today and
parking lots can generate at least even if there's no water surface discharge in a budding lots, it all goes into the the ground and that water uh feeds the springs in hot pond. Mhm.
So, I guess this would be part of your approval process to make sure that whatever parking lot is created that it takes into consideration Yeah. the groundwater. Yeah. And I know that this board is very strict with the storm water requirements
on parking lots. We're we consider that carefully. And I think that's all my comments. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Hello. My name is Edgar A Turner Jr. I know you've heard from me before. Um I'm a
direct abuter to the former Thompson backslashway. When I initially bought the property, as you know, it was allzoned commercial. Um, I'm kind of wondering why uh CB
Light had not been offered to me uh instead being everything just taken away. um kind of concerned about that because I thought we were also supposed to be trying to preserve the area for
the futures and I'm not seeing that. I'm all I'm seeing is takeaways. Um it is concerning because not asking to become uh a full-fledged commercial
business generating uh equipments and stuff like this. um and or influencing more traffic than usual. Um today's things are based on e-commerce
which is usually mail in mail out. Uh we already have UPS, USPS, FedEx, Amazon, whatever you want to call it. Those initiate enough traffic alone and
we know this but those are daily things. Those are normal and it doesn't bring any more impact into the area than usual. In fact, everybody on the street probably uses Amazon these days. So, I'm I'm wondering
what I need to do to preserve my existing property from going directly to um residential only
to um be able to maybe accommodate CB light, but with some restrictions more than the CV light that's being being offered. Uh I don't know if that's something to
think about, but one thing one thing is for certain, once things have changed, they're permanent. And we all know that. That's my concern. Thank you. Thank you. Parcel.
He's the first one. Hi, good evening. I'm Pam Bay Revard, first lane temp on the pond and and I've been before you. My main concern is the pond. Bobort um verbalize those concerns,
but um I did want to remark and ask you a question about the the new changes. A lot of them I really like and I think provide a good buffer for the pond and all the public the new public areas and I really appreciate that. Um my question
is about Lockheed's parking lot. So right right now that is zone CA which is the same as Kate's Corner in the church. And there you are keeping Kate's Corner in the church CA I believe.
But for some reason, you want to include the parking lot CBLT. In my mind, in my um looking for possible threats, that gives Lockheed a lot more space to expand
and um really increase their their manufacturing or their industrial footprint in in our little village. So, I was wondering what the um what the thought was, why that had to be changed. So, that's that's my concern for
tonight. So, Evan, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the fact that it is a CB lot. It's CA, right? Or sorry, CA lot and used as IIA parking
is a zoning conflict in and of itself. It is, but um the file indicates that it received a use variance uh from the zoning board to be used as as parking in a CA for an industrial use.
Um where is the parking lot? Right here. That's what I thought. It's quite a large parcel of land and represents the potential for a lot of expansion of that of three up to threetory building and then there in
that area especially if Lockheed is able to purchase Maxwells and use that for parking. That's that could ex Well you I made my point. Yeah, Evan, just correct me if I'm wrong
again, but with that um with that uh use variance use variance. Thank you. Um they are able to expand now. So the use variance um is specific to the parking.
Specific to parking. Correct. Okay. So So maybe we should leave that bit. Well, I think the intent is they do need to expand. Um, well, they already have that use variance. They have the parking use parking, right? But they are they are looking to expand
into that lot, right? So, that would come then that process would come through us the planning board which through that process we could we you the butterers can come in um like
we could manage it through that process. Why do you have to change it to begin with? If you don't want them expanding in there, and certainly the residents who show up here do not want them to expand in there, why why change it? It's
CA now. They can't expand now. So, why put that put that potential out there and then have to fight it down the road? So, just to be fair, I think Lockheed did have some um neighborhood reach out about their intention to expand um
because they were looking at buying the master properties that I think me and Marcy, they're there. Um I attended them because I wanted to hear what the neighbors had to specifically say. Um, and to be honest, I kind of
went in there with a very I didn't want I wasn't looking for this area to be expanded. Um, people who know me know me that not a big fan of industrial and neighborhoods. Um, but I was actually pleasantly surprised of the neighborhood reaction
at this meeting. Um, the discussions between Lockheed and the neighborhood. Um, when was this? I'm sorry. When was this? Do you remember? Was it May? No. No. This long time ago. March, I think. Of this year. Yeah, last fall.
Yeah, cuz it was around um No, because when we're ballot um when were the due dates for um I think we had a pretty good turnout for the first February. It was February of this year. Um which kind of kicked off
this whole CB light. Um, so again, I was very pleasantly um pleased um with their initial thoughts um and the neighborhood reaction. They also addressed some concerns
um again this project would have to come in front of the planning board um to um are you changing the zoning just to accommodate Lockheed's expansion. That's not the our initial attempt. What
started this whole thing was Max was for sale and someone wanted to buy and put a contractor yard and the whole neighborhood appeared here one day and that's when we all said we need to fix this because this is a problem here. We
have an industrial area in a beautiful part of town which is by far my favorite part of town. I will admit I love that area. So that started it. Um, and Lockheed, I mean, they can say it like,
you know, I was ready to zone it all RB to be quite frankly, like get rid of all of industrial. Like, I don't want industrial. I don't want an office building there. I want to get rid of it all. Um, that's and we opened that was like, let's fix this area because it's a nice area. We want to preserve it. Let's fix
it. That started our whole process. Um, unbeknownst to us, Lheed had also during this time or before this time was looking at expanding, had reached out, was looking at the Maxwell property potentially an expanding um,
and that kind of all played into it into us calling this CBite for allowing good um, businesses that have worked nicely in town. And this is a unique situation. Um
allow them the ability to expand and stay in town because they are good neighbors in um in this lot. But we do not want like should they ever leave, we don't want a bad tenant there. Like and that's how we define bad leaving that CA is not going to affect the bad tenant
potential, right? Leaving it as it is is is doing no harm. and um and doesn't increase the likelihood that a new tenant's going to ruin the area by bringing something else
in. As far as the neighbors wanting this, I've been to every meeting that's been open and I haven't other than this gentleman, I haven't heard any of our neighbors say, "Boy, we'd love Lockheed to expand, take over more of South
Chemford." So that's that's I don't know where that meeting was. I went in there with like I'm not you can ask people in town. I'm I've not been a fan of developers in general and I went in there with very
nope. You know I wanted it all RB. I wanted it back to that old. So would it be of help in clarifying what the neighbors want? If there's a pet, could we offer a petition with signatures for the neighbors? What do we
do to clarify what the neighbors want? So, right now, this is changing the zoning to CD light. Um, which I think makes sense because it is an empty parking lot. Um, and I think that's the right spot for it. I think during the time that should they come in with a
special permit to ex um to expand that's the time to voice your opinion of what you want there how big you want them to expand if you want them to expand at all that's the time to do it and that's the mechanism to do it um because but why
couldn't we just leave it CA yes that's exactly with the use variance that's correct because the use variance only includes the parking It does not include expansion. The other thing to keep in mind, if you look at the use table, the CA and the CB light
are very comparable districts. There's a slight difference um but they're very comparable districts and we've we've done that on purpose to minimize. So why make a distinction to allow Lockheed to do what they need
to do and to minimize the impact when you say need what they need to do in our neighborhood. I don't understand that we're trying to balance the needs of the neighborhood and the businesses in that
area and minimize the negative impacts that IA currently offers. And I think you've done a good job with and I pointed out I like that you took off the overlay on the residential districts. You allied that public, but I think
unnecessarily changing that parking lot to CA to um CBLT opens up another big battle for us in the neighborhood. So just to add a little bit of comment. So the difference between CB light and CA um really for the area that you're
talking about is it requires planning board approval for light manufacturing. Heavy manufacturing is still limited. So it still have to come to the planning board have a public hearing and that's where it can be discussed. But the whole idea behind CB light is actually adding some protection to these neighborhoods
that have residential areas abuing them. You know it's helping with that buffer. We're trying to look at the future so that you don't end up with IIA stopped in a huge like warehouse there. Yeah, that's and I understand that and I
appreciate what those two parcels that being done. But I think if it comes before this board who has already changed the zoning, if if this board has changed the zoning to allow light manufacturing, what's your argument
against fighting for light manufacturing when they want? We have the mechanism within our approval under a special permit that if it doesn't fit the neighborhood, we can say no. And you can look at my record of how many times I've done that. I know. I don't care how many how big it is, how
like this or that, but if it if the neighborhood and doesn't add value to the neighborhood, I've said no before and I've been the sole one sometimes saying no. But I strongly feel that. So again, I think this is one of those balancing acts and I do hear you and I
do understand your concern. Um you understand my logic. I do understand um and you know these are one of those decisions that I I am I'm more comfortable with changing this to CB
light. Um and again I went from neighborhood I and again I went from I wanted this all like I wanted them gone. I didn't want an like an office park there at all. I wanted this to be converted into single family neighborhoods, right? Like that's where
my head was initially. Um, and this was over a long process. Thank you for listening and thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Karen Griffin, 12 Parkerville Road. I've been in front of you before. Um I just
want to highlight a couple of things that others have mentioned. One was about Lockheed in a different state. Um as far as air quality goes, I did a count from Lockheed to the pond. There were nine homes, 11 cases of cancer
and those are the only ones I know. All right. And that I attribute to air quality. We have noise issues where Lockheed has, I don't know, compressors or some kind of machines that operate round the clock. So, if you go out at
3:00 a.m., you're hearing it. If you have company, they're like, "What is that?" And it's locked. And that's what I say. Oh, it's locked. So, um, I'm concerned about that. I'm concerned about them expanding. If you have a parking lot where Maxwell's was, that
entire area was wetlands. If you had gone to any of the farmers markets, that whole parking area was wet. Didn't matter the time of day. So, if that's wet now and they make it a parking lot, where is that runoff going? It's going
to go back into our water system. So, I'm concerned about that. So, I just wanted to restate in like bullet points where my concerns are. I am a butter to them. Honestly, I do not want any additional growth in the middle of the
night in the dead of winter. It's daylight because of their lights. So, I don't I don't want them closer to me. I don't want the trees removed because that's what I'm dealing with now. So, that's all I have. Thank you
for listening. I do want to mention if people have um air quality concerns, you could direct those to the board of health. And if people have noise or light concerns, um you can direct those to the building inspector,
which will be done, but I just want to make a point as far as what's going on with me, and I'm only one of the direct neighbors. Okay. But we I mean we we do have regulations in place for light and noise and I mean
who's monitoring those? Well, the building inspector is supposed to and like if you put in a and I know for like like um someone who I know who buts the Chster Mall, their lights, the old Ch the um stuff and shop in the center
of town, the lights were like flashing into their yard. Mhm. They called up they called up the building inspector and called up the business. Done. They changed it. They just didn't know. They just Yeah. They just middle of the night I took pictures of their
So I would just contact the town, the L inspector, air quality, the board of health and they will contact the the the company and come to a resolution to it because we do have regulations in town that it shouldn't be doing that. It shouldn't you shouldn't have it at night time it
looking shining into your yard. Um it's daylight at night. You can also I just wanted to voice my opinion. Thank you very much for listening. I appreciate it. I was I was going to say there's also that click fix that you can put all that stuff into and they respond that way.
What's that? The click fix. It's on the town's website. All right. Um we are over the 10 minutes on that one so I do want to keep moving. Um as I mentioned there will be other opportunities uh in the next few
meetings to uh continue voicing uh comments. So the next one is massage establishment. Are there any public wishing to speak on that one? All right. Um
the next one is the family updates. Anyone wishing to speak to that one? School impacts. Anyone wishing to speak to that one? All right. Uh, where are we at? Adus. Anyone wishing to speak to that one?
What do you think? If nobody wants to speak to any of them, if we could circle back for another five minutes and see. We could just before people leave. Did I cover all of them? Yep. Okay. All right. Any I will give some more time to Kate's Corner if people are
willing wishing to speak. You guys talking about the Chumsburg Mall at all? We will be. That's next. I thought I was in the wrong room. Ann Soilleski, Prince Lobel for Loheed Martin. I would just like to thank the board for the time and effort that you
put into the zoning bylaw changes. There were a lot of meetings and we appreciated all of the thought that went into the proposal. Um, you know, some things have been stated here this evening that we have not heard before. or the claims of air quality causing
cancer and things of that nature. Obviously, we will look into those issues and we can respond to them. With respect to the reasonzoning of the property, I mean, we have been a good neighbor. We do have, you know, outreach programs. The name and information of
the facilities director is available to people. We've when someone had a complaint about lights from the parking lot, we installed lots of landscaping. This is not a situation where the property owner has been, you know, unresponsive to members of the
community. So, if there are issues, we will certainly endeavor to make sure that those are adequately addressed. But it is a need for this facility to expand. We don't want to go elsewhere. We've had a very good relationship with the town providing a lot of jobs for
residents both in Chelmsford and in the surrounding area. and we would like the opportunity to continue that and to be a good neighbor to the neighborhood. Thank you. Maybe it might be um worthwhile to maybe have another outreach to the butters about your your thoughts for expanding,
what you're thinking, how much you want to do, what have you. That's a that's a very good idea. We Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I will take a motion to uh continue it to the next continue the public hearings.
Yep. I don't know if it's one public hearing or a lot of public hearings. It is one public hearing, but I move to continue it to July 23rd. Yep. Second. Second by Deedra. The motion by Mike. All in favor? I.
All right. See everyone next meeting. All right. Next item is the Chumpsford Mall property. Um 265 and 279 Chumsford Street, 20 Manhattan Street and three
Kat Katrina Road. Thank you. Sorry. That's right. Happens all the time. The name Manhattan. Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board. U Mr. Balansky. For the record,
my name is Philip Iliopoulos, attorney here in Chumsford, offices at 9 North Road, and I'm here on behalf of Win Stanley, uh, the fairly new owners now of 265 279 Chumsford Street, the site commonly referred to as the Chumsford
Mall. Uh, joined tonight uh, by the, uh, principal of Win Stanley, Adam Winstanley. Uh, also our engineer, Katie Edright. I'm not sure if Matthew Baker is here. Good. And um as well as vice
president Linda Castanazo. Uh want to first thank the board for spending some time with us. Feels like now two or three months ago. We kind of presented it on an informal basis. Um for those uh maybe that are in attendance tonight, maybe hearing the project for the first
time, thought I would just give a little background about um Win Stanley um Enterprises. They first became a part of this town when they purchased the old Marshall's Stop and Shop
building that had become a defunct property. Marshalls had left then Stop and Shop left and it was sort of vacant maybe for 10 years. Uh that uh site was really targeted by the town for economic redevelopment and uh
Adam bought it and did a phenomenal job with it. really I think turned it around. Actually got some new tenants in there recently. I've heard some good things about the uh the barbecue. Got to try it. Um so that's become a very vibrant center.
Really kind of enjoyed working with the town. Looked for other opportunities and bought the old Grismo property um and created 11 Cushing Place uh on the other side uh of the of the Choswood Center. And I think that project has worked out
well. Um and and again was a site that was targeted by the town for redevelopment especially for housing in the master plan. Um so uh again Adam enjoyed working with the town continued to look for opportunities
uh for Chumsford and ended up buying the uh the Chumsford Mall. Um Chumsford Mall was originally developed back in the early 1970s. I remember it because I used to love to go to child world. That was like my favorite thing to do. Um and
u so people remember child world Bradley's people probably still think of Bradley's there as well. Um over the last 25 years the mall which was part uh interior mall was renovated and u became
really now sort of a uh open air configuration. And so you've got very kind of bigger users, very deep users in that in that mall and kind of got rid of the interior um separate small stores.
Um you'll see when Katie comes up uh the project uh the plans for the mall uh for the pad sites up front and some some changes that will u enhance the landscaping etc. Um, you know, the other
thing that we'll be kind of talking about more specifically is the two uh special permits that the project will require. Um, first one is a special permit for uh fast casual restaurants uh
that it's required if it's going to have a drive-thru. Uh so both of those pad sites um will be seeking special permits for a a drive-thru and we'll also seek a special permit to reduce uh off streetet parking. Um you'll hear in the
presentation and you actually see it at that mall. I don't even know if I ever seen more than half the spaces used up at one time. So that'll give us the opportunity to create some more landscaping, um some pedestrian walkways, things of that nature. So uh
that to reduce that parking that we don't think is needed for that site which is really right now a sea of parking from the 70s. We does require a special permit because technically would be less than what's required. So those are the two uh main special permits that
we'd be seeking as part of the project. What I thought I could do before I bring Katie up to walk us through the plan is maybe have Adam, if he's willing, to come up and just kind of reintroduce himself maybe to the community, talk a little bit about what he sees for the vision of this mall and and why
specifically we're looking to add some restaurant usage there. Uh thank you, Phil. Uh for the record, my name is Adam Winstanley. I'm uh principal of uh Win Stanley Enterprises. Um I know we spoke a couple of months
ago um about this particular property. Um you know, I've been uh a property owner here in Chelmsford since uh 2014 when we purchased um the former Marshalls and Stop and Shop property, which we uh we have rehabbed it and um
it's it's been a great property. It's been full. We've recently um had some tenant turnover with two tenants. Duncan and Andyo did not renew their leases and we have uh replaced those two tenants with pliables and the smoke shop uh barbecue.
Um my office, my corporate office is in conquered and my my staff is throughout the region. So, we're very much in regular communication with the town on property management. So, we do all our own property management, facilities management. Uh, you know, we're really a
a long-term owner and part of this this community. Um, we went on and completed the Grismill project, which at the time was um uh if everyone remembers it is basically was a closed down lumber yard
in the downtown that we um built uh 32 condominium units and sold that that project out about eight years ago. Um, I like uh this town. I think it's a great town. It's a good town to work in
and own properties in. Uh, we really have not found um a project uh until we had the opportunity to to buy the the Chumsford Mall. Um, my plan with the Chumsford Mall is going to be similar to
uh Chumsford Town Center. It's going to be long-term ownership. um our family, my family, uh we bought it with our own capital and so we don't have like an institutional partner that's going to require a sale or something like that.
Um I think it's a it's a great property, but um it it does need more investment and uh we are we've just started um to implement phase one improvements. So phase one improvements which are actually underway at the property now.
Uh we have um started with powerwashing the entire center and we are actually repainting the entire property with a whole new paint scheme to give it a kind of a fresher uh look. Um we are also upgrading all of the trash enclosures
which you know doesn't sound like a terribly great project but a lot of the trash enclosures are 30 plus years old and they're kind of like banged up and don't look that great. We're also upgrading um the signage at the property. We're going to be bringing in
new LED signage. Uh we're also making a num number of uh ephus and uh repairs to the exterior facade. So that's all kind of like in phase one. uh the phase two project which um uh
Katie is going to be here to talk about tonight is we um one of the most uh important things for all retail properties is is food and a lot of our tenants um especially
um Kohl's and uh as well as PetSmart have said hey if there's an opportunity to to bring food to the center uh we think it would be a nice addition and so Right now we are um exploring the
possibility of bringing two fast casual restaurants to the out parcels. Um we think that um as I stated last time uh when I was here um I'm not looking to do I'm distinguishing between
uh fast food and fast casual. Um so fast food would be you know like Burger King and Wendy's and and things of that nature. Um, I'm really thinking about uh we're focusing on fast casual and more upscale type restaurants. Um, there's
there's lots of other choices that could go here. There could be banks and other things like that, but I think ultimately I think upscale food users um are really what is needed in this area. I think it would be beneficial for the property.
And along with with those improvements, um we plan on creating new pedestrian accessways by connecting a new sidewalk from the street. We have landscaping improvements. We'd like to take some of our parking offline and increase the
landscaping. And ultimately, I'd like to finish up with redoing uh the entire parking lot as well. That's in phase two. Uh we're going to start with phase one, which is a pretty significant investment. Um, and I think it's a great property and we're interested in
investing in it further to to make it, you know, better for the next um, 30 years. So, again, I appreciate uh, the opportunity to come here and explain my vision and and what we'd like to do. I'm hoping that I can be judged by the the
work that we've done in town with our our current projects and um even though the property is, you know, fully leased and performing well, we we do believe that further investments could make this um an even better property. So, thank
you for your consideration. All right. Um good evening everyone. Um my name is Katie Enight and I'm a professional engineer with Howard Stein Hudson. Um, and my office is now at 100 Apollo Drive in Chumsard. Um, as Phil and Adam stated, I'm going to go over a
little bit of information, but I also wanted to I know that there's a significant amount of a butters here tonight. Certainly, this is not the only meeting for this project. There will be significantly more meetings, I assume, after this evening. Um, I'm going to give a 30,000 foot overview tonight. Um,
I would ask that if the planning board is looking to review the traffic study that was issued to the board, if possibly if if that needs to be peer-reviewed, if we could discuss that tonight after my presentation um, and set that up for an additional meeting. I know that there's a lot of concern
relative to traffic. So maybe it might make sense for us to create a a solely traffic kind of question meeting um if the board feels um that that's a topic for basically an evening in and of itself. Um so I fully intend on on
working through some of the basics tonight, but certainly if we could talk about that. Um also I know that not all peer reviews internally within the town of Chumps have been done yet either related to things like storm water. So, I'm looking forward to working through
um with the departments in the in the next few weeks prior to the the upcoming meetings. So, I wanted to sort of set the stage so that nobody thought we were one and done, that we were looking to get out of here tonight. Um, I'm here also to make sure that once all the
questions are asked, certainly I will bring those back um to my engineers, my traffic engineers and my team and certainly when Stanley Enterprises to talk those through prior to the next meeting. Um, this is a a rendering of the existing conditions of the site. Um,
as Phil stated, built in 1974. I also frequented the the interior mall um as growing up. Um the site consists of five different parcels that Win Stanley purchased. So 265 and 279 Chumsford
Street, 20 Manahan, three Katrina, and then there's an unnumbered parcel on Katrina. The two on Katrina are essentially an old um detention basin that captures all the storm water from this site. Um so it's been flagged as a wetland. It would be considered a wetland today because it's prior to
1996. Um all the storm water from the site goes to that area at the back of the mall. Um the five parcels total about 22 acres. Um so significant size of the site. Majority of the parcel is a shopping center district. So there's not
too many of those in Chumsford. If you start to look around the map, there's two large areas in this part of Chumsford. Shopping center district is created um in an area that is seignificant traffic. So Route 110 Chumsford Street. A lot of the zones along Chumsort Street are just for that,
our four businesses that see frequent um pass by traffic um and see a significant amount of traffic. So, Route 110 is a state highway, also known as Chumsford Street, in front of the site. Um the site uses two different entrances. So there's a signalized intersection um
which is the main entrance off of Chamsford Street and then there's a second entrance that's kind of over by um Fenuee that's a right in right out um entrance and that's the way it's sort of been designed horizontally and signed um
at that other location. Um, the site's also in the CIOD, which is the overlay district for community enhancement investment overlay, but we're not seeking any of those special permits related to dimensional standards or F or any of those requirements. So, we didn't
go through with the CIOD type of permitting here. We're also in the zone 2 wellhood protection area. So, we are in the aquifer protection district for the majority of the site. Um, and we are I need to fix a section of our report. We are considered a critical area
because of that. Um the site itself, the mall, again, assessors say it was built in 1974. The mall itself is about 5.5 acres, so 242,000 square feet. Um there's over a thousand parking spaces there today. And
I think anyone who frequents the site notices there's a lot of empty spaces. Um the topography slopes away from Route 110. So the mall sits pretty significantly below um Route 110 Chsford Street. It's about 21 ft below the road.
So as you know when you drive in you drop down to the parking areas and all the drainage essentially goes to catch basins right in front of the mall and it goes around the mall to the back out to Katrina. There's a couple little places that it stops off in between. There's a a low point behind um 1012 and 14
Manahan and there's a low point behind 271 Chumsford Street where the water goes out and then it gets picked back up and comes back through the parking lot. So we looked at three different um design points when we were looking at the drainage here to make sure that we didn't increase any of the storm water
any of the interim points too. Um what we're proposing is two fast casual restaurants. So, if you can switch to the next, if you can switch to the overall slide and then if I want to use the
I'm sorry, what' you say? Uh, go to the overall one first and then we can break it out into the individual sites. I'll just keep I'll keep talking while Evan brings it up. There we go. So, this is the site redeveloped. So, you can see there's significantly more green space.
Um and essentially those two upper parking lots which are very rarely used um have been taken out. So those feel like and we're considering them pad sites. Um so essentially when you when you go to almost any mall outdoor mall you see most of these have what's called
a pad site or some small some small restaurants or coffee in the front of the parcel. Um this did not have that. So, we're looking at creating these two sites that would access the traffic off of Route 110 Chsford Street and enter into these fast casual restaurants. Um,
we don't have tenants for either of these yet. I did submit a um rendering of a Starbucks um that we're working with to hopefully maybe think about that as the coffee, but we don't have any agreements with Starbucks at
this point. Um, and we don't have a user for the left site. So, the 4,000 foot building, um, again, Adam and his team at Win Stanley are working with a bunch of different providers to fit that fast, casual, more upscale, um, restaurant with drive-thru, but there's no deals
that have been struck as of yet. So, we don't have a ton of information about the architecture. Um, but certainly this is the first step to come before you and at least talk about the idea of having these restaurants there, seek the special permits, understanding that once
we have a user, we will have to talk to this board about the architecture um, and any changes to the site that we may need. But until we get these approvals, it's hard to sort of market those sites as being available for something like this. Um
the proposed access for both of these restaurants is off the main driveway um and the parking lot. So we had an earlier conceptual of this that we brought this board a couple months ago. We also met with and had a department head meeting, an informal meeting prior to doing the engineering design plans.
And we received a lot of feedback from the fire department. um and the fire department is typically someone we see first um to make sure that they're happy with the amount of access they have around the building. So, we made some pretty significant changes to the site layouts based on the fire department's
recommendations. And you can see in our package, we provided a fire turning plan that shows the Chums the largest Chumsford fire truck and how it would move throughout this site. So, the idea was that it could it could get into the parking lots, but it could also get in that drive-thru area. Um, also what we
looked at is some of the interactions that we had between the two restaurants. You know, making sure that the entrance sat back from the signalized intersection and then thinking a little bit about, you know, where those ins and outs were and making sure that there wasn't like reducing as much of that
cross traffic as possible. So, you can see on the left side um with the double drive-thru there, we actually have people entering out into the parking lot um at the very back of the Kohl's parking lot. Um, what that allows is for us to separate that traffic out and to
get it further away from the signal. Um, can you just point that out? Sure. Yeah. Um, right here. So, this is the exit to the drive-thru as way. Yeah, please come up. It's hard to see. I don't know if it's on Oh, it's on this screen, too. I
can point here. I can point here, too. It comes here. This is the out. Yeah, me too. So, the out. and people would be directed to come out and go this way. So the drive-thru board and pickup is actually way is on this side of the building, the north side of the
building, but this drops down from Chumsburg Street. I think it's about six or seven feet depressed. So it's down lower here. No, no, no, no. But that's what we're proposing the grading to be about that far down. And then people come around the building and you come up here and rejoin the traffic
here. Katie, could you come up to Katie, could you come up to the microphone? Oh, yes. Yes, thank you. I can't do both at the same time. Um, yeah, I'd be happy to point out um additional information. So, as part of this project, too, what we're looking
at, and we talked to the board about this previously, but a lot of times when I get the chance to look at a parking lot that was striped so long ago is looking at zoning and figuring out if there's excess pavement, um, there is excess pavement here. So, what Win Stanley allowed me to do was look at a
restriping plan. So, this is a new striping layout um which between the two restaurants and the restriping layout, we've removed a little over 17,000 square feet of pavement um from the site, which is pretty significant um reduction in pavement. It also allows
that pedestrian access. So, currently there's no way to get from Chumsford Street into the site if you're walking on Chumsford Street. So, one of the things that we looked at was connecting pedestrian connectivity between both of these restaurants. So people can come off of Chumpsford Street. It's graded to
meet the ADA standards. That's why it's kind of off a little bit to the side. It's not right along the road to make sure that we meet that less than 5% slope. Um comes into the site attach allows you to connect to both restaurants and then connect down
through some crosswalks and some new signage and some new stop bars to follow that existing um driveway down and actually meet with the mall. So now there's a way for people to get from Chumsford Street to the mall walking in a safe way. Um that doesn't exist there
today. So we created that instead of having that parking along Kohl's and Best Fitness being able to be accessed by both sides. I don't know how many times I've been there when somebody was trying to get into a spot one side and the other side at the same time. We closed that off so that it is just an in
and out so you don't have cars backing into the main access aisle. you have to go around and enter the parking lot. This allows us to create that pedestrian walkway and connect all of those parcels. We also, if you look at this plan, we added significant amount of stop bars
um and stop signage so that there's better um traffic flow and also changed sort of that intersection of the the back edge of that parking lot with the main drive too to make it less open. Right now, it's really difficult to determine sort of what side you're on
because there's such a mass of pavement right when you get to the bottom of the hill to take a left as to which way you're going. So, we've really kind of enclosed that. Um, we also looked at again reducing impervious, but these two new pad sites
out front also we designed those to meet storm water. So, not only are we reducing the site by almost over 17,000 square feet of pavement, we're also taking the new pavement that's replacing the old pavement on these two pad sites and running those through best management practices and meeting
redevelopment standards. So, all of those new parking lots are going to run through deep suned catch basins with an operation and maintenance plan and then to an underground infiltration area. So, we went out and did soil testing in both of those areas and we've provided more
infiltration that is required under the storm water management bylaw. Um, which also then significantly reduces the amount of water that's going to that pond at Katrina, which eventually ends up in I think it's River Meadow Brook there
um behind the site on the other side of Katrina. Um, my mouth is really dry now. I was drinking water out in the in the lobby. Um the proposed number of spaces it we're supposed to have per zoning 986
spaces. We have 1,08 there. We're proposing 797. Um we did provide a parking study and you'll see that the most number of spaces that we counted that are used I believe was 298 286 used spaces. Now
certainly that's dependent on who these tenants are. Um, and so currently the way that the site is used where we we have a significant amount of excess of excess parking here for the tenant uh mix that's there today. But what we did do was make sure that each of these pad
sites more than meet zoning with the requirement for what um we anticipate the space for patrons would be on both of these restaurants to make sure that both of these pad sites has more than um required per zoning adjacent to them.
The left pad requiring 53, we have 64. And the right requiring 30, we have 35. We also provided that, and I think this was one of the board's suggestions earlier, a pedestrian connection to get from that left side restaurant down into the main parking lot. So, if there's the
need for overflow, now you can do that. You can park down there and you can get right up into that restaurant and get on the pedestrian access. So, that was a good suggestion that we included um in our plans. Um, again, our drainage system has been
designed um to clean the storm water and to infiltrate. So, we're dealing with phosphorus um and our TSS removal and meeting our requirement for recharge um up there on both those sites. Landscaping um we have a significant
landscape plan. We brought back Lorraine Black. I don't know if some of you might remember Lorraine. she was finally able to come back to private land development after after leaving her job and going back on her own. So, Lorraine did this plan. Um she's a fantastic landscape
architect out of Grten, Massachusetts. Um used to do a lot of our landscape designs. Um but really looked at these frontage parcels and if you drive by there today, there's kind of some sad looking trees out front and not much else. It's really some bark mulch and
some lawn. Um the proposed landscape plan adds 45 shade trees, 19 evergreen trees, and 354 shrubs. So very significant upgrade to this frontage um along the road. And I want
to mention also that both of these sites, I started to talk about it a little bit, but I was away from the microphone, are both depressed. So headlights are not an issue to those across the street. Everything is 3 to four feet down from the road, if not more. um in both of those areas. So
there's one area on the right pad that we have um parking facing towards the road that's right into a three to four foot wall. Um so really looking at that and also adding significant landscaping along um both those fronts, taking out all of the bark mulge areas and creating
areas for a lawn and vegetation um for both of those sites. Um and then lighting, we also prepared a phototric plan for the lighting. There are new light poles. We aren't doing anything with the existing light poles as of right now. We've accommodated them in our new striping plan, but new proposed
lighting up um in both of these sites. Certainly fully compliant. 20 foot poles are proposed there with 12 foot height along the sides of the buildings. Cut off um full cutff fixtures, dark sky compliant. Um the phototric plan has
been done so that you can see the spillage that it stays on the property. Um, and that was prepared as part of um, the site plan package. Um, and then I know the hot button issue is really traffic here. Um, I'm just
going to not gloss over it, but hit sort of the major points because certainly, as I stated before, I would assume that the the planning board is going to look for a peer review. Please let us know if that's not the case. But what I would like to do is have the report peer reviewed. um have the peer reviewer and
my traffic engineer with Howard Stein Hudson be able to be here and answer the questions of the abutters relative to the specifics of the traffic study. Certainly any questions related to traffic I'll take down tonight. I did receive a letter um through the planning board that was that requested some
information about traffic and I will include that um in any response that we create um for the study. Uh we reached out to the town um prior to doing this study. We reached out to both Evan and the engineering DPW office to determine
what we were going to study um and came up with a plan as to what we were going to study. Um and that's where these intersections came from. I also can tell you I worked on Turnpike Road prior to moving
to Apollo Drive and I drive this twice a day every day. Um, we studied Chumsford Street at the signalized entry. We studied Chumsford Street at the alternative entry at the intersection with Dalton. We studied
Chumsford Street with Glenn and the I'm going to call it the Market Basket light because that's what we know it as. Um, Chumsford Street and Route Three and the Stop and Shop Light. um Chumsford Street, Steman at Golden Cove, that intersection, and also Dalton, Steedman,
and Subway, which is the intersection that's sort of one up as you get into the Westlands. Um, and that was based on a conversation that we had, which is which is very typical traffic engineers talking with planning staff, talking with the DPW staff to determine where
those intersections were um that needed to be studied. So, what we looked at for both of for each of these was we looked at one as a fast food with drive-thru and one as a coffee with drive-thru based on um it which is the engineering handbook to look at the traffic for this
area. And we had counters down um 14,000 cars a day use Chumsford Street. That's both directions um during the day and 12,000 on the weekends. Um the traffic for this, we conservatively
looked at this as if both were fast casual restaurants, not coffee as far as pass traffic because it's more conservative. So a fast food restaurant, you assign a 50% pass by, meaning people are going to be on the road already. Whatever is here, they're going to stop
in and grab something. Not a lot, only 50% of the people are going to be going here on purpose to get food. Um, with coffee, it's anywhere between 90 and 98% pass by. So, nobody's going out of their way to get coffee. They're stopping in and stopping out. Um, and so what we
looked at was peak AM and peak PM. Um, peak AM is 7:45 to 8:45. It's a peak hour of how when people see traffic, well, when traffic is on the roads and 4:30 to 5:30 in the evening. And then Saturday that peak hour is 11:45 to
12:45. And so speeds actually on Chumsford Street range between about 25 to 33 miles per hour, too. So, um, just as a as an aside, um, again, we looked at it as if both restaurants were at 50% pass by. So
although we're saying that these two restaurants create 3,000 average daily trips, we're considering based on the report that half of those are people already on the road. And honestly, more than that really is what's realistic for
what happens there. So about 1500 is what we included in the report as new cars or new traffic. Um and certainly the report is very large and there is a lot of numbers and a lot of text and Carrie Pike, my professional
engineer um who worked on the study um love to have the opportunity for her to come meet in here and let you quiz her on every number within that study um at a further meeting. Besides that, we also did parking. Um, not that we needed to,
but we did do a parking study and went out there and counted cars um during different times of the day during the week and on a Saturday. And again, we only saw 286 spaces being used at at the most um in this lot. Um, with that, I
did get an opportunity to read through the comments that were posted earlier today. Um, I do have I did request a meeting with DPW to possibly go through the storm water and give them um the cliffnotes version of of what we looked
at and how we went through it to help them hopefully with their review of the storm water. Um, I'd like to get the peer review set up for traffic if need be. Um, and then um, we do have a a call with Mass Dot informally. We can't go to mast with anything until we have a
permit, but informally a meeting with them in the next um I believe it's two weeks from now just to kind of talk about what we're proposing to do and just get their initial feedback so that we can um have the best project possible before they see us formally.
If you can ask them if they can help us fix the traffic on 110, maybe you have better influence than rest of us here. Um, with that, I don't know if anybody has anything else to offer from my team, but I will we want to hear all of your comments and
certainly the public's comments tonight. So, I'll be taking notes and we'll go from there. Okay. Thank you, Evan. Before we get into the letters, do you have any comments on this? Yeah, I would just say um
uh to Katie's point, if the goal collectively before we adjourn this evening um is to decide on the traffic uh peer review, I think it would be worthwhile for the board to try to articulate
um specific um areas of concern or interest. We've done that with Hilddrth as it pertains to uh the applicants meeting with Masdot along the same vein Anita just mentioned. Um if the board
it may be premature uh but if the board has ideas or interests related to this project and how this project uh may benefit or improve or mitigate um uh the conditions as I said it may be
premature without the uh traffic peer review and that discussion taking place but it may be worthwhile for the board to ask Katie uh mass dot insights related to this project um as well as some of their
other um improvement projects that they have going on on Chelter Street. Um that's all I have for now. Okay. Thanks. Would you like to read the letters? Sure. Okay. So, the first one is uh from
public health director Donna Greenwood to the planning board dated July 1st, 2025. This letter is regarding the proposed project, the Chumster Mall property at 265 279 Chumstard Street, 20 Manahan Street, and three Katrina Road to
construct two fast casual restaurants with drive-throughs and associated site improvements. The proposed prop project has property in town water resources, hayaka protection zone 2, and the state water resource protection zone 2 wellhead protection area. Therefore,
this project would require approval from the board of health pursuant to the town of Chumps general provisions and applicable state laws. Upon approval from the board of health regarding the town of Chumps of general provisions, uh, regarding chapter 2011 of the board
of health, if this property is not able to connect to the town source system, it would then require an on-site septic system. And that on-site septic system must meet Title 5 regulations pursuant to state regulations and would be subject to the health
department's permit application and inspection process. The proposed project has plans for kitchen facilities that would meet need to meet the state sanitary code. Uh minimum standards for food establishments. This project must also meet the town of Chumsford
provisions uh board of health regulations for food service and retail food establishment for each facility and the applicant would need to complete a food establishment plan review and submit full stamped architect plans uh
for review for each facility. Once the health department approves these plans, they would then apply for food establishment permit. Um, also the property must meet town of Chumpser general general provisions regarding a refuge dumpster collection area.
Uh, next one from the book public department of public works uh, dated July 8th, 2025. The engineering department received site plans for 265 Chumsford Street. This is insufficient time to review given the
complexity of the application. They then list the several documents that were received. It says preliminary comments issues not addressed. No sore calculations were submitted. Applicant must submit title 5 soy use calculations for the proposed restaurants. Town of
chumsford sore restriction bank policy and sewer flow purchase through INI need to be verified for approval. Provide cut and fill calculations. Due to staffing and time restraints, DPW is recommending the following to be
peer-reviewed. Traffic impact assessment and storm water calculations. Uh for clarification, DPW will review sewer flow and sewer calculations once submitted. DPW will include permitting requirements, pre-construction, construction, construction oversight,
and other comments recommended for approval. It is assumed the planning board will review the submitted sustainability checklist. Then we have a letter from the fire prevention office from Captain Josh Abbott dated July 7th, 2025. Members of
the board regarding the special permit for this property, this office provides the following comments and conditions. All construction shall comply with all applicable codes, including but not limited to the Mass State Building Code, Massachusetts CMRs, Massachusetts
general laws, NFPA standards, and town of Chumpsford bylaws. plans will be reviewed by this office as part of the building process. Site access is considered adequate based on the submitted truck turning plans. Any changes to the site will require updated
truck turning plans to demonstrate continued adequate access. Curbs on the site shall be slope granite or mountable in style. No bark malt shall be used on site for landscaping. Alternative non-flammable materials approved by the fire department shall be used. I
respectfully request this letter and these conditions be incorporated into the decision-making process and made part of the public record. And then we have from the building commissioner. This letter is dated July 7th. Dear applicant, should the proposed fast casual restaurant with
drive-throughs and parking improvements are approved by the planning board, be advised that parking, restrooms, dining tables, counters, doors, curbs, and sidewalks need to comply with ADA requirements in the 521 CMR code. It is also recommended to
install an ADA pushbar, door opener outside and inside the main doors to facilitate ease of door opening operating force. Also, the you need to meet building coverage F and setback is deemed necessary per zoning bylaws.
Respectfully, Jose Negron building commissioner. And then we have three letters um stating no concerns from the Chumsed Police Department, Chamster Water District, and the Treasurer Collector's Office.
All right. Thank you. All right. Um, we're going to do a couple rounds of comments and questions from the board. Um, to keep it easy to follow, I want to do any questions or concerns first on
the use and site plan and then we'll do another round for specific traffic um after. Okay. Mike site and use first. I don't have any particular concerns with a basic U site
plan. I think the traffic is more interesting. U we'll get to that in the next round. John, I don't have any site plan questions at this time. Anita, um so I saw the rendering of the
Starbucks. Um not a big fan of and I don't know if that's just an example of it. Um, and I mentioned this in the prior meeting. Um, the Jonah of Arc, we've got the Jon of Arc building right next to the Chamomford Mall. I love that building,
right? It looks like a colonial house. It fits. This is a gateway into the town. We have um homes on the other side. And I, you know, if it's Starbucks, I know Starbucks has done things in colonial style homes. I'd like it to look, since we're adding landscaping
that it almost looks like a village. um a a neighborhood like I want again a point to when we get to that like I'm just not this is too modern for the n for for the westlands to me. Um and I
know I'll let your architects Where'd Katie go? Oh, there you are. Okay. I'm like staring at Viva. I'll let your architects design something, but for me, if you want my approval, it has to look nice and add value to the neighborhood
and to the town. Like, I'm a lot about, you know, traffic is traffic. Like, 14,000 cars on this road, you can't like the fact that we even have it going at 33 miles an hour, I'm shocked because usually on this road, we're going 5 miles an hour.
Need a traffic second. I know. I know. So, okay. Sorry. Um, okay. Um, but I like the I, you know, I like, um, the developer. I like his, um, restaurants that he's brought into this town. You know, I've heard great things
about the smokehouse um, that replace. You know, I look forward to having more unique type restaurant like coffee shops. You know, big fan of Cafe Nero versus a Starbucks, but I'll let you um, put my plug in there. But other than
that, um, again, for me, it's more about how this looks. Um, if we're going to put something up there and just making sure the lights, especially the I I like the the left-hand side because it's all um all
the parking's in the back, but you do have those cars um on the right hand side that are parking facing the street into a wall. Into a wall. Into a wall. Yeah. Yeah. I I I would want to see like an
elevation for that or maybe making looks like there's some plants maybe on top of that wall too. Yeah, I know. But like make it wider or something like I'm sure I'm sure people will complain. Well, we'll get to that. So, I won't say anything. I'll let it. That's it. That's all I have to say.
Dearra, I really like the accessibility for the pedestrians. um you know from the pad sites down to the main parking lot in the in the main mall area. Um
I like the fact that you've increased the green space and you know really looks like had an had an eye towards um minimizing the view shed from the street of the lights or the parking and
all that. I really appreciate that. I I brought this up at the last time and I can't remember what was said, frankly, but I would love it if there was some way to have accessibility somehow from the bike trail. Um, I don't know what
that would look like. I don't know if you just have some pref traffic calming measure or have a bike trail along the side and I wouldn't necessarily want that to detract from the from the green
area but I mean I think the bike trail is a um asset to the community and the neighborhood and the town and you know if you're going to have people right there riding their bikes they're going to go into this parking lot and go eat
stop for dinner or a snack. And it would be nice if that could be done safely somehow. Um that's all I have. Marcy, um two quick things. First of all, um Sith and I were both talking beforehand.
Um we're not seeing anything on here for uh snow storage. Where is that going to be? Especially with, you know, the two upper lots. Um it's on one of the sheets. We were struggling finding it. So on the layout material C6
C6. All right. Dotted areas or dashed areas. Could maybe Katie just come up and point out you can add some additional ones too. Um, but it's these areas here
and they're specifically in these areas to avoid landscaping and certain slopes. So in these dark dash dot okay areas. All right. And my other quick question with this. So on the right hand side
where right now you're proposing the um coffee shop um on the plan I'm looking at where you guys had green space um like coming around where the entrance to the drive-in is. You also have it listed as the dumpster pad
right this area. No, see it's there's one on each side. There's one here that comes in from this airing. So, the dumpster pad's going to be over there because on one of them it's got it down on the bottom. This is the one for the other restaurant.
The labels there, but it's pointing to the right. You can't It's hard to see the arrow. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Thank you. Nope. Sometimes it can get confusing. Yes, there's so many arrows in that one area. That's why I'm like, wait a minute. Is that Is that it? That's it for me,
Sita. So I guess I have a couple questions. Is this going to the conservation committee because of the adjacent to the wetlands and stuff? They're starting their NOI next meeting. Okay. Because one of the things I did notice is that right pad is going into
the wetland buffer area and um one of them it looks pretty close to the no pave zone. So I was kind of curious what areas that you're disturbing with any of the wetlands around on this project from doing the construction. So it's not totally clear to me. I don't know if Katie can point those out at some point,
but I'd like to understand like what's being disturbed on there. Sure. And one thing that might I'm sorry. Would you like me to answer, Mr. Chair? Okay. Um, can I stand here and can you think they can hear me through? Oh, that's right. I forgot about that
one. So, one of the things that might be helpful is for me to show you where the existing pavement is versus where the proposed pavement is, which we'll have ready for the conservation commission can bring that back. But, no, that was a good one to be on. That was a good one. That was a I was getting ready to point and you
moved. Um, so which one? Go back up. This one is better because this is most of the proposed improvements are here. So the area that's essentially drainage behind 1012 and 14 Manahan. There's a there's a wet an area that's considered
wetland in that those backyards basically because it takes drainage and then the drainage comes out and comes back into our parking lot. But that has a buffer zone and this is the 100 foot buffer zone around that. But what I can show you is sort of the pre-to post too because we're further away. We're either
on or further away than the existing pavement is in those areas today. Um and we're also doing better with storm water and there's less pavement in those buffers. So the other buffer on the property Yeah. because there's one to the right and then there's one further
is behind 271. So there's another again it's a drainage. Basically, it goes it goes down and then goes back up to the existing parking lot and there's water that goes into there and then the water gets picked up and goes back under the parking lot because it's so old. It's a
wetland. So, if it's pre96, it doesn't matter if it was storm water. It's still a wetland. So, this is a buffer zone off of that wetland that exists behind the home that's next to us. So, um those are the two areas that we're doing work in. And then the pond that's on Katrina,
we're outside of all those buffers with proposed work, but that's also considered a wetland. So the areas that are kind of adjacent to the wetlands that you're kind of disturbing is the one on the left and then one the one on the right is here and here, right? Yep. Okay. Um
the other thing is the parking up at the top. Um is there a door on the side of the building over there that's on the side of the drive-thru? like people that are parking up there, how are they getting in to the facility? Well, so I don't know yet, but I can add a walkway for right now because we don't
have the exact building, but the idea would be that maybe employees would park over there and walk in through the side. Um, rather than having these basically be the main area for the customers to enter through the side door. Um, but I could certainly add that.
Yeah, I just think for safety reasons having people cross. Mhm. Let me see. I'm sure I'll have more as we go along. Those were kind of like my first ones. All right. Um I've got a few questions.
Um Katie, the exit ramp on the left that you mentioned going down. Is that going to be the exit for the drive-thru and the parking lot or just the drive-thru? Well, it could be both. So, I don't have
it blocked off here um for a continuation of flow, but this is both ways in and out. So, it's not the only way. You could come to the stop bar here and take a left and follow the cars leaving the drive-thru out to the main parking lot.
Well, what what would be preventing people from coming in through the drive-thru and then taking a left? Is there anything preventing them? Signage? Could No, there'll be signage and stuff there. And I think this is actually would be an easier path than cutting through this parking lot, but and there
will be signage there, but there won't be any impediment to them doing that if they wanted to. Um the snow storage up in that um top left pad site near that stop sign. I would prefer that
be moved so that it doesn't impede any um sight distance sight distance. Um, the other thing is the p I like the pedestrian sidewalk on the left side. Is there a way to get one on to the right
site as well because having people walk all the way across to go back too much topography? Okay. So, we started looking at both sides. Um, we could look at it again, but my guess
is it would be so long that people would rather go the other way because we're we're trying to lose so much topography that you would start thinking about making it above 5% and needing to rail it. Um, switchbacks and switchbacks
or stairs. We tried really hard for access. Like if we were gonna I don't really like to connect things that aren't accessible unless I have to like this location here. But I mean there there could be another pedestrian way to
get up there through stairs and stuff, but it just it couldn't be I couldn't grade it to the ADA without making it incredibly long. I'm just a little concerned that people are not going to go if they're going if they want to go to that right site from the right side.
They're not going to go all the way across that intersection just to go back again. They're going to try and find cuts. See if there's a way to Right. No, I know what you mean, too. Because then it'll the grass will get killed and it'll be or they'll walk in the street. Let me Yeah, let me look at Let me look
at that. I don't. It just wouldn't be able to be graded to be accessible. Yeah. So, if we we could could have one like that initial one be the accessibility and then do a side one would have like just stairs or something. Is that is that what you're saying? Yeah. We might just have to we'll have
to figure out how to sign it. I just want to make sure I'll have to read through the manuals again. Make sure it meets all the requirements. And I just want to clarify because I think you were pointing in the wrong spot just then. I'm looking at coming up here. Yeah. I'm actually looking from the street to that pad site. Because if people are walking on
Chelmsdur Street from the right side of that map, they'd have to cross all the way over. Yeah, let me talk to Okay, let me look. Let me examine that a little bit further. Okay. I was thinking the other direction. Do you need one the other way like from
the bottom up to access that? I think it would be less of an issue, but I could see my biggest issue is going to and from that pad site from the right side of that map. We can we can definitely look at park answers tonight.
People will cut through make a safer walkway through on both sides. It makes sense. Um, and then I think someone mentioned it earlier, but if you can also provide a an elevation for that parking area, um, just to show what it would be like
an elevation or do you think a profile would be like a cut sheet that shows Yeah, that cut sheet. Yeah. Um, and then as you're thinking about the clients, um, getting some additional
information about delivery, truck hours, hours of operation, um, the monument sign lighting as well. Um, because that's right at the neighbors area. Um, those would be things that we
I think we would want to look at. Um, all right. I think that's it for the site plan. All right. Um, any other questions or comments on the site plan and then we'll move to the traffic.
Um, is there a way that you could estimate how much additional tax revenue we could expect from the town? Did I ask John? Maybe John knows. I mean, unfortunately, we don't receive we we receive quarterly meals tax
distributions. Are you talking property taxes? Meals tax. Meals tax. We just receive a quarterly distribution from the Commonwealth, but it doesn't break it out by restaurants. So, Oh, so we don't get our access. We would be able to Sorry. Go ahead. No, go for it. We would be able to give you um an
estimate of probably the real estate taxes plus look at some uh sales data for like a fast casual different kind of categories, come up with what the sales tax would be for the town as well. So, I think we could come
up with some that would be decent estimates. Yeah, I like to understand that. Yep, we could definitely do that. Okay. Yep. All right, Katie, I'd had one more question actually. Um, the pedestrian crosswalk at that light at the entrance,
is there going to be stripe pedestrian striping there? It's going to depend on a meeting with Mass Dot. Okay. So, we're going to talk to them about the pedestrian improvements and whatever is necessary along the road. I Yeah, I was thinking across your driveway area. Yeah, we're going to work with them on
what that those details look like. All right. All right. Um, moving on to traffic. Mike, well, obviously we're going to get on this. Can you move your mic, please? Sorry. I can I'll take it back. Yeah, obviously
we're going to do a peer review on this. Everybody's assuming that and we should probably just get that out of that way and get that started. uh that is one of the highest traffic areas in town and which in some way and and given its
location I it's probably no reason why it shouldn't stay that way. That's where the traffic will be. Uh we probably ought to have some idea of how much more traffic we might want to uh we would be comfortable with. I suspect with 14,000
cars going through there, the effect of this isn't going to be huge from a percentage point of view. U but we should probably have some idea what our what our limits might be. Um that's about it for now. I think we have
to see what the peer review comes up with. Okay. Thanks, John. Just a general something I would like to see looked at is just when the so when the cars are exiting both of the fast food sites and they're trying to go back
you know to exit exit the plaza or um you know just to look at when so when the light is letting all of the cars in would there be a problem with cars trying to exit out or could that be coordinated somehow? Oh, um the other entrance. Are we keeping
that? Yeah. Are keeping that right? Same way. Right. Mhm. Yeah. I mean, other than that, this is Yeah. It is, you know, it's 110, right? Like I mean like I avoid it like the plague. I
like Yeah. I try to avoid it at all costs. I understand why. Yes, I can because it not. Um but um I do understand and do realize
that there's a potential for picking up extra revenue because people are going to be stuck on that road anyways and they want to grab a coffee then, you know, might as well take advantage of that and help pay for, you know, some of our schools or safety
or the town needs. Um, yeah. I'd be curious to see what the what you guys I be if if you guys can are speaking to the Department of Transportation about addressing this whole area like what they can do to fix the traffic. I
mean, in general, I mean, I don't know if there's Chard has such a big traffic problem. There may be a solution here that goes well beyond. Unfortunately, this is a state road. It's not even our own like it's not even a town road that we can address.
Um, and then the other thing I just, you know, be cognizant of the cut through to Steman from this is no, you know, like you like it's Dalton that like that I always take. Um,
they all folks please um folks, you will have a chance to address us. there's any suggestion for like re I don't know like one way certain things or I don't know if they have any suggestions to prevent
people taking that cut through traffic com for traffic I know like there's some roads you can't go in certain hours certain hours or something like that if there's something regarding that maybe you look at from a traffic study perspective that little neighborhood in particular
right Dudra I agree with Anita and um we're going to have the public input in a little bit. We're having a conversation amongst ourselves still at this moment if you don't mind. Um I agree with Anita about looking at ways
to protect the neighborhood from additional traffic cutthroughs. Um whether that's traffic calming or one-way streets, I don't know. Um, also we had a prior controversial project where it was um
brought up by the applicant that there was an opportunity to improve the light timing and that that would help mitigate some of the traffic um where this isn't a town road. Maybe if you could bring that up. We actually studied that and it's in the
traffic study. We actually looked at that. Were you able to find it? Wasn't no that actually the retiming of it wasn't going to change the results. So, but I wanted you to know we could talk more about that certainly in the traffic evening, but we did look at the timing of the signal, too.
Okay. And then, yeah, I think that's all I have, Marcy. Um, oh, and we definitely need peer review. Yeah. Sorry. No, that's okay. Don't worry. Um, this is my only really big concern I think with traffic actually just happens to be
in the the parking lot in of itself is you get your entrance and exits to both those fast casuals. It looks like they're directly across from each other. And I can see that becoming an issue. That's why I liked what Chris asked if that part if for the larger lot if you're going to send everybody out down
through the main parking lot to exit which could potentially prevent some issues of people coming in and out at the same junction point. So yeah, know we could look at possibly signing that one way also, even though it's might be wide enough for 90 degree traffic. Maybe it's an in only on the
left and an out on the other side. Well, just cuz thinking too like that's the main road that everybody's going to pretty much use to get into the Chumps Mall area. That's going to be where one of your biggest congestion area is now that you're going to have two restaurants of people trying to get out.
Yeah, we can study that further. Stha. Um I guess a few things. Um I'm a little bit concerned with Q. So I don't know what the amount of cars that can sit within this area. Um one of my concerns happens like I think of other restaurants that are drive-throughs like
you know Starbucks, right? Like um an example is the one that's up by Kohl's in New Hampshire off exit 6. Um the queue gets so backed up there that it prevents traffic from getting to where it needs to go. So a little bit of concern here with that. So just understanding what that might look like
because it's hard to tell from the drawing how many cars could fit in the queue. I can show you and we do have I'm familiar with that Starbucks also. We have significant cues on this project, but I can show cars on the plan also that might just help it might help the a you know it might help understand but there are significant cues here and I can I can
map that out for you. And I do like the idea a little bit of talking about the one way out because it does force the traffic to kind of go another direction on the one on the left. Um, but that I guess that's my big thing right now on this is more the queue within within this parking lot just causing blocks for people trying to get to where they need to go.
Oh yeah, because it looks like they smile a lot with the coffee. It's got a longer queue than and the other one has a double, but yeah, it's got a double. So that should But again, and it also depends on who they actually have for ten and how popular they are
and whether or not they these tenants actually do materialize. It's a different type of tenant that Well, the other thing I think of is like pressed, right? Pressed is there when that's really busy. That queue also backs up. They have people out there taking orders, trying to facilitate
people, and then they park them in spaces while delivering their orders. Like I don't know if these type of things have any do they have any parking for mobile like the pickup? I mean, like if something like that, like press sits them behind their I've been to other restaurants where they have a couple designated spaces for pickup after you
go through the drive-thru to help try to make go through for a longer order. Like even if it's a restaurant, right? Like if you want to do mobile orders, mobile pickup, right? Not like if it's even like a casual restaurant, like someone's coming home, they stuck on traffic, want to pick up dinner, that
might be Yeah. Again, depending on what the tenants are, something like that may be necessary for mobile pickups. Okay. All right. Um, so for my comments, I
definitely were going to be doing a a um peer review on this. I would like to include all of those cutthrough streets um in the study as well. I think Subway, Silvin, Sunset, Senica, and Manahan.
Saltton Dalton's already included. Yeah. Um but I think all of those intersections should be included in the study. Um I think with the traffic
already there and potential cutthroughs, um I think it's important to include those. I think the traffic study, if you can include the internal driveway area and the traffic patterns in there, that would be good, too. Um, related to how
it might impact that intersection, the main intersection. Um, I also have some concerns about when the traffic study was done. Thursday, May 15 through Saturday, May 17th.
Um it's the end of the week and people usually work at home on Fridays. Um so I'd like to see that extended to a Tuesday or Wednesday. That was a Thursday and a Saturday. And if I may, I just want to make a couple comments. I would really like the
peerreview engineer to provide their first peer review before adding scope to the project only because there's reasons behind what we studied and why we studied it and hear and to be able to collectively do any changes to the study
after we hear both the board's comments about comments and the peerreview engineers comments. Yeah, that's fine. And and that's how we've usually handled it in the past when I've been on this board is we provide our concerns to the peer reviewer. They address
it could get redone. Um so Evan, if you can include those as part of the peer review. Um, and then while I appreciate the transportation performance management uh part of this,
the fact that these are fast casual drive-thru restaurants, it those I don't see a significant impact in reducing much of anything. Um, unfortunately, those would be property related. So, I should clarify that, but that would be
property related and not just for these two restaurants. Okay. So we could talk about Right. So it include it would include the include it be propertywide. Okay, good. That's that's better. Um, and then
the other question I had is the DOT plans for the ramps. That should also factor in to this study as well. um in some way.
I'm fairly certain that um Howard Stein Hudson's aware. Um I don't know to what extent they're able to model the future improvements. Um my understanding is that uh that's a
mass dot project. Mhm. And it's not even a 25% design and it wouldn't be constructed until sometime in, you know, the 2030s, early 2030s. So it's it's worthwhile bringing up. I
just don't know to what extent they're going to be able to if there's enough data to to model anything. presume presumably whatever Mass DOT is intending on doing is to make improvements, but this project could be theoretically
could be approved and built before that's even But it's I understand what you're saying. It's worth introducing it to make sure that the peerreview consultant is aware. Do you know to what extent your your study I I know that they're aware that it's
going to exist, but whether or not this again whether or not there's information that would allow for us to work on something that we're looking at today versus then, but we can certainly talk to them about it, too. Thank you. All right, that's all I had on the traffic study.
So on the uh on the peer review uh we've used uh beta and vaness any preferences. Uh Vaness has been pretty good in the past I think. Any conflicts that we're aware of? Nope.
Okay. All right. So I'll I'll reach out to Vaness if for some reason they're not uh available. I'll switch to uh to beta. Okay. I feel like they've both been excellent. The other question I had is DPW asked us to do a storm water peer review as well.
Yeah. So, um uh today I've had conversations and you heard Katie mention as well. I think the preference is um or DPW indicated their followup. Their indication was it would likely be
meeting in August. Okay. that they would be able to do a full review. Uh my sense is that Katie and the applicant are understand that timeline and are okay with that timeline. A peer review would likely be the same timeline. Editorially, I think it's in
everyone's best interest to always have DPW do the review if they technically are able to do the review. I think it's more valuable for the board and for the community to hear directly from DPW. So, I think that's how this will play out is DPW ultimately end up doing the
the peer review. Okay. And I'm assuming uh Concom would also be Yeah. Yeah. interested in that. Okay. Exactly. And I have one um more comment. I don't even know where this would fall in. Um
but any noise impact where we like where would you measure that? So for those we're we're still talking to the board. Um we don't know what these restaurants are going to be, but certainly we can there's a noise ordinance. They're parking lots now. We
know that there'll be parking and cars thereafter. Certainly any equipment that we have related to a restaurant we can talk about. It would have to certainly meet the nose ordinance and we'd have to talk about what those individual units might be once we know more. Yeah. So,
I mean, again, just being cognizant that there'll be traffic now higher up. Um, well, there's technically parking there that's usable today. Um, just because it's not used, it it's technically parking there today. Um, and
traffic there today. So, the I but the idea would be yes, that we would certainly once we knew who these tenants might be, we'd have to come back before you with information related to that site specific. Okay. I mean, again, there's 14,000 cars on there,
but a road anyways. Um, there's still though there's noise like fans and exhaust. I also had a few questions on the sustainability side of things. Um, would it be also possible to include
maybe some EV charging stations in the main lot? Yeah, I think they're required by code at this point. We can discuss that and look at the code requirements. And then um the storm water changes only the storm
water plans only for the upper lot, right? You're not changing anything. Two lots, right? Nope. The others are staying the same. Okay. All right. Any other questions, comments before we go to the public comments?
Did you did you say something Katie that you think the num the amount of storm water will be significantly reduced by the recharge and the well between the recharge and 17,000 square feet of pavement going away. Right. Right. So the the combination of both of those of putting storm water back into the
ground on both the upper sites and then taking away that pavement. You can see the reductions in our storm events in the report that show um both the flow rate and the volume of storm water going to that going to each of the individual areas which eventually go to the back.
And I mean can some of this um green space be meant to you know like a rain garden kind of space. Most of these areas are spec are very slope. Yes, we tried to we tried to limit the
amount of retaining walls as much as possible based on the topography that's out there and try to keep them all below 4 feet all the way around the site which was difficult to do. Um, so we tried to capture as much of the imperous areas
from those upper two lots as possible and send those through our BMPs and infiltration. Anything else from the board? All right, we'll now open it up to the public for comment. Hi, my name is Sarah Holdway. I live at
21 Manahan. So I abut 20 manahan and I live down by the bike path. So um Anita, I think I really appreciate your commentary around the look and feel of what we're going to put in there. Um and I appreciate to the developer what he's done in the other lot. I am a walker in
town and I use the Bank of America downtown. So that what they've done on that side of town to make it accessible is very positive for me. Um, as an abuter, there's a couple of things I'd like them to consider as well as the board to consider. One, the um, I would
say I'm gonna come over here because it's easier for me and I have a loud voice, so this parking lot to me is a significant concern. Um, prior owners did not upkeep that parking lot. We have had called to the police for several incidences of
nefarious behavior. Um, there's been drug deals. There is massive amounts of trash from people coming up the bike path going up to the liquor store or going into the Kohl's plaza and using that as their dumping ground. Let uh three weeks ago I picked up four contractor bags worth of trash, empty
bags, cans, etc. I would like to have considered that to be made green space and not be able to be a pass through because it's currently used as a pass through where trash and you can go there today. There's three Dunkin Donuts cups, at least one paper bag of garbage. that I haven't been able to pick up. And
people use that lot and 21 Manahan for behavior that shouldn't be happening in a residential area. I have Ring cameras that I can show you some of the behavior that has happened which I've reported to town and DPW. I understand wanting to have access from the bike path, but I do
as an person that lives in that neighborhood. I do am concerned because of how close we are to LOL and what comes down that bike path day and night cutting through into that parking lot and back what that would do to the safety of the neighborhood. Um, I am not
opposed to having two fast casual restaurants there. I will put that on record. As someone that likes to walk, it would be great if I could get up in the morning, walk up Manahan, walk down 110 in a safe neighbor, safe way, walk in, grab a cup of coffee, get home. It would be my escape from my kids. And if my husband's watching, I'm sorry. You
heard me say that. Um, the other ask I have is someone that lives a budding 20 man 20 Manahan, that lot has been neglected. It is overrun with weeds. It is overrun with vines that are growing in to onto Manahan
Street which makes it extremely unsafe. My neighbors and I are the ones that are continuing to do the upkeep on that side of the street. So, if there's anything we can do, a a get rid of that that side parking lot and any landscaping, whether it's arborites or other additional like
green space shading that could block access to and from Manahan Street through what is now a dirt lot filled with trash and or block any additional lighting or things that would come from the lot down to that end of the street. I would appreciate it. What? Where? Can
you point out that wasn't the So, I live I live So, this is I live here. Yep. There is a dirt path that comes through here and there's a dirt path that comes from Morgan across. There is an old
metal gate and it is from my neighbors that are here down. It is filled with trash. People come into this parking lot at all hours of the night, park, leave trash, drinking parties. We've had people pull into this lot from behind
the plaza and have parties in that empty man lot because there's no there's nothing there to stop them. And this is all overgrown. There is um I don't I don't it's bittersweet and everything else growing into the street. Um it grows up all the trees. There's a
huge pine tree right at the corner that I'm waiting for National Grid to have to take down because of the amount of vines. I love the fact that Mana Street is walkable to the bike path. I love that Manhattan Street's walkable to Kohl's. I use it to return Amazon. I use it to get stuff for my kids. I used to go to Best
Fitness. I love that the plaza is there. I worry about that traffic area there and what may come off the bike path and then make it more of a security and safety issue as well as a trash issue. Especially if people are coming off 110,
coming down having food and instead of there's no place to dispose anything, so let me just throw it in an empty lot. Okay. Thank you. Hello. So, I live on 14 Manhattan Street. So, neighbors. And could we have your name, please?
Nicole Kio. Thank you. Um, so that little random parking lot area that she's talking about where a lot of um misbehavior happens is it feels like it's our backyard basically. So, this is a, you know, kind of hard to
tell. So, this picture here shows from my driveway. You can see into that parking lot that we have actually blocked off. We got um an okay from the prior owners. So, sorry it's there now. But it was so uncomfortable to be out in my backyard with my children and have to
call the cops because of many different things that would happen there. Um, so yeah, I'm totally would love to also add it that could either be just negated all together or a big giant fence up so that there's a lot more privacy happening.
Um, there's just a lot of stuff that we don't need to even mention there. Um, also with the the snow removal and where the water goes, our backyard, it ends up filling up with a lot of water. We've actually because we have really bad
rainy seasons that extra snow melts on top of the water. We've had flooding in the basement. We have an older home. We don't have like a French drain or anything like that. Um so it if it could be possible that the snow removal goes
behind the next lot over when you come. Let's see. So here's me. And they usually will pile the snow sky high right here. But if you look at this property, there are doubling, you know, there's town homes,
but they have the arboritees and then there's this big empty field back here that to me would be a lot better for all of that snow to go and melt here instead of right up against our backyard and then causing a lot of extra water damage. It takes months for the water to
actually dry out in our yard. Um, and again, it's actually added flooding into the basement on those really bad rainy seasons. So that was a big issue for us. So and definitely not any bike path
entrance because 20 Manahan is directly across from my friend here's house and that would be awkward. And we have access. We can they can go down man if they know that there's a coffee shop or whatever ends up being at the top of Kohl's. They're just going to ride their bikes to the top. I don't think there
needs to be an additional cut through. I think I would like to see that just wiped out as far as that random parking. No one uses it anymore. The only time they did was when it was things that needed to be brought to the attention of the authorities. So that's Yeah. Thank
you for your time. Thank you. Hi, Neil Ler for Manahan Street. Just want uh the uh proponent and the board to know that about three or 4 ten of a mile on the bike trail uh from the mall,
there's a tent encampment. You can see two tents. They're about 50 yards off the rail trail. Right before the uh overpass where 495 is. I think if some entity, some town entity addressed that, that might alleviate at least some of
these problems. Um, so I would hope that uh uh people look into that. Um, I personally would be opposed to any fast food or fast casual because I think that would be an attraction and that uh tent
encampment would uh grow significantly. I also have a lot of concerns about the traffic. I think any increase would go from a bad to a much worse situation. Even a little extra traffic, I think, would exponentially uh create problems. And I don't think
the problem is necessarily the amount of the traffic. It's people coming in and out because you have to wait and take your turn while people come out of that lefthand exit. And that has a backup effect and 4 to 5:00 p.m. on certain
days it is a parking lot. So, thank you. Thank you. Hi. Uh my name is Bobby Mitchell. My wife, uh Abby and I, we own the house in front of the Jonavar Bank. We live there with our daughter. Um we're obviously we're opposed to having
two restaurants built in front of uh where we live. Um concerned about the the scope and length of construction. There's a lot of improvements that are going to be happening in the space. And um you can correct me if you're going to be able to tell me, but I Googled it and it said it's about like five and a half months probably to build like a
Chick-fil-A or or some kind Speak into the mic just a little bit. Oh, sorry. I mumbled too. Um so building those takes a long time. It's a lot of construction. Like concrete's getting ripped up. It's very low. We have a 10-month old daughter and her bedroom faces. So light pollution was a concern which it sounds like has
been addressed. Um that's a concern of ours as well. Um you mentioned um Anita um that the whole previous project the whole neighborhood came out and and it wasn't in the best you know interest of the neighborhood and you have a lot of people from the neighborhoods here
saying it's not in the best interest of I think the neighborhood and and there's a lot of businesses here already. There are restaurants near there already. Um I a big concern also is with traffic. We're not counting like Door Dash, like once new restaurants come up, we're going to have tons of drivers going in there, bringing things to LOL, bringing
things to like whatever, Westford, wherever. Um, and it's concerning to me that they didn't think to look at the cross streets. Those are right there. Um, that's I'm kind of wondering maybe what else wasn't addressed, and maybe that peer-reviewed study will be able to tell us that. I I understand I bought a
house in a res business district. I'm not clutching my pearls going, we can never have any new business in Chelsums, but I think that that scope of the project, where it is, what we already have in the area. Um, it it I think it's going to inconvenience too many people. I I I'm hearing what they're saying
about the traffic. Logically, I understand the traffic counters are counting. If it's a really popular place, that's a variable. I don't think you can count with that. If it's a, you know, certain restaurants are extremely popular and people are going to want to go to those. That's going to increase traffic. I mentioned the tent encampment. That was something I was
thinking of earlier. I actually don't know what's going on in the hotel that's kind of down the street. Um, a lot of them walk by my house. Some have tried to open my truck doors. I don't know who's I actually really don't know what's going on in there, but I adding I think more I guess resources or more like inexpensive food and stuff. I think that's going to draw more of that in
there. Um, and make sure I hit everything Raphael and give other people time to talk. Um, yeah, that's really the most of what I have to say. I appreciate you guys showing up and I appreciate you guys listening to us. Thank you. Thank you.
Hi, I'm Eric Pearson. I live on 11 Manahan Street. Um, first off, I want to say I do appreciate any efforts that are made to improve the property. So, it sounds like there's some good improvements coming. Um, I have two concerns that kind of echo what we've heard before. I won't spend too much
time on traffic because I know we've talked about it. And thank you for adding Manahan Street to the study because it's a dead-end street. So our only egress out is onto Jumpsford Street. So anything that adds traffic makes it much more difficult. Um and then I do e echo the concerns about
privacy. So I'm at 11. I'm right across the street from Nikki's house. Um and I've witnessed some of what she's been talking about. And I think that's actually a good suggestion to maybe get rid of that lot. I've, you know, never seen anybody park there other than for some of the illegal activities that have
happened there. Um, so I think that's a really good suggestion. And then the other thing I wanted to ask, so I heard earlier with one of the other discussions that there's a requirement to have um landscaping or a fence if residential property abuts commercial.
So right now the fence that runs along Manahan Street is probably this high. It's more like a post and rail. So, I don't know if we could get some sort of either privacy fencing or better landscaping because it seems like the landscaping improvements, at least if I'm understanding it correctly, are all
focused on the restaurant area and not the back part. Um, but I would like to see, like I said, fencing or um better landscaping, high shrubbery or something that blocks the view from the road. So, I appreciate you coming here and presenting and like I said, any improvements that we can see to that
mall area are great. Um, I just want to make sure we address all the concerns. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, I'm Joanne Anderson. I live on Six Evergreen Street and I'm one of your precinct 6 town meeting reps, just so
you know, for future voting. Um, first of all, I want to thank the planning board. I want to thank the presenters. you guys have really answered almost all of the research that I did. So I I kind of wish I knew the presentation before I did all the
research. Um so uh a couple things that I did want to bring up. One, and I think a lot of it has been brought up. First of all, the master plans goals uh ask for us to enhance the visual appearance through the creation of design guidelines for
appropriate areas and to protect the character of the town's residential neighborhoods. So obviously we all want to see that. Anita brought up John Dark. I had actually made a list. I drove down Chsford Street today and literally
almost every single business on the business side does look like a house. Okay. The liquor store doesn't look like a great house, but it does look like a house. The endodontist did a great job. Still looks like a house. in front of the
assisted living there's that's where my kid's orthodontist was. Looks like a house. So, it would be great if we could absolutely have anything that goes up there fit with the character of what's already in the neighborhood.
And I don't know if Evan maybe you can answer this question for me. On the legal notice, it talks about, and we've heard these words a lot, to construct two fast casual restaurants with drive-throughs. And maybe the zoning
bylaws in online are not up to date, but we don't have a definition for fast casual restaurants. According to the zoning bylaws, there's no such thing, is there? No, you're correct. Okay. So for purposes for purposes of
zoning, it's just it's just a rest a restaurant with drive-thru. Okay. So the definition of a restaurant, I think most of us know the definition of a restaurant is one where you get a waiter, you get plates, you get silverware, you sit down, you pay
people. The last sentence of a definition of a restaurant, it is says specifically says the term restaurant shall not include fast food establishment, which I thought was really funny because the very next definition is called fast food restaurant, although it says we have no such thing.
So, a fast food restaurant, and I'm not going to read this whole thing to you, but it basically says, "Because of the nature of the operation, it causes a large volume or frequent turnover of customers, typically characterized by ordering food at a counter, self-service, or semi-service, a menu board rather than individual menus,
payment prior to consumption, no table service, disposable containers and utensils are used rather than reusable dinner wear." So, what we're being asked to put here are fast food restaurants. that I think it's very important that you can sit there and say, "Oh, we're
looking. We would love, personally, I would love a Chick-fil-A. Thank you." Um, I don't want McDonald's to get that double drive-thru instead of Chick-fil-A. I want a decent restaurant, but we don't have a definition for that
right now. So, I would, you know, I think it's very important that the presenters understand that If you want to, you know, we all knew when we moved into these neighborhoods, I live on top of two shopping centers. I
go one way to Market Basket. I go one way to the Chelmsford Mall from the end of my street. I use every store at the Chelmsford Mall except Carter's. Um, and I and my kids my kids can walk Yeah, my kids are grown and flown. So, and my and
I walk my kids once they learned were old enough could walk over to Market Basket and buy stuff for me. So, I love the area. Um, but I would like to see something get put there. And and again, a lot of the a lot of the things that I had on my
list here were taken care of. Uh, such as the Chelmsford wetlands bylaw. The other I was part of the zoning bylaw review committee. So, we did definitions, which is what made me decide to look at the zoning. I was also a member of the swamp act, which is the storm water um committee that was put
together because as some of my neighbors who are here tonight know, some of these streets, not specifically off of um Chelmsford Street too far, but do get some significant water and that is
because the storm drains were built back in the 1950s and have never been upgraded. So, I appreciate that the DPW has requested a storm water because I can't afford to get any more water coming down my street, which slopes down
from Chelmsford Street. And my street, you can't see the way the um the picture is right now. You'd have to move it up a little bit, but when you go to that I am probably one of the only people who can get away with using that second entrance. And I go, "Oh, hello." I go
diagonally across and right down my street because my street is right where Dalton Roads Fork is. My street is right before that. Um my recommendation if you can Oh, if I could talk to Mass DOT, that would make my day. Uh in their
infinite wisdom, they made that a I noticed in the traffic study that I think was 150 pages long and I didn't read the whole thing. Um they made it a straight yellow line. So, I basically break the law on a multi-time
per day because I can't technically go down my street without going over two straight two solid yellow lines, but I do it. Um, and so do all my neighbors. You also can't go on to Dalton Road. It's also a solid yellow line. I looked I actually drove down Chster Street and
was looking at where the solid yellow lines were. Um, so I'm not going to go into traffic because we all know, but I the one thing that I would say in regards to traffic would be could you please also include when you're looking at traffic the car wash that's also
being built right down the street and what kind of traffic that's going to bring into the area. I mean, hey, I might as well get a coffee if I'm going to get my car washed, but you know, so people may go and hit both, but I think it's important to include that because
the current study that was done for the Chelmsford Mall doesn't include any traffic that could be related to the car wash. Um, I did me I honestly you guys did a great job with your presentation, so I'm like
I don't really have much to say here. Um, the landscaping I appreciate. Um, I did have a question on, you know, we do have a residential home in the shopping center section and where that I'm just
going to call it Starbucks is going to go. I did notice in the picture that there was only 12 feet of landscaping between the end of the Starbucks and the and the property line. And I what my
understanding is is it's supposed to be a 30 foot distance to buffer the resident next door. And no part of the buffer can be a building, a structure paved or used as parking. So I was kind of curious about if they're going to go
for a zoning waiver for that buffer. Um and the other the other thing is in related to lights. I appreci I am very happy to see that they may consider putting a new sign up there. I would make a request that they follow the
actual sign bylaw, the lighting sign lighting bylaws that say that um no sign within 300 ft of a residential district shall be illuminated between 11 and 7. And any non-conforming sign that's freestanding is supposed to be 15t from
the street, which hopefully this one is because I assume it's non-conforming the way it is. And I hope it will look nice because I went to the zoning board of appeals for the one for Market Basket, it came out looks so much better. And I think the picture I saw of the one for the Chumsford Mall did as well. And my
last thing that I have to say is related to the architecture. And I totally I think I already mentioned that we need it to look more like the neighborhood. And I again I appreciate everything that has been presented tonight. And I look forward to coming back to another meeting and hearing more about this. I
am not thrilled about this. Don't get me wrong. I don't want two restaurants there because I agree with most of the people. I have no choice but to drive on Chumps Street and the average miles per hour is not 30. It's like 10. And I Oh,
one last traffic thing. I apologize. Is the light to have people turn from Chelmsford Street to take a left off of Chelford Street down into the mall. I go to the mall all the time between my four cats and Kohl's. Um, one day I was in I
started to pay more attention to it. One day I was number four to take the left and I basically took it on the yellow turning red before it turns blinking yellow. That's when I went. So as car number four, car number seven, I
actually only made it because I ran the yellow light for the whole thing. So, if you speak to the Mass Department of Transportation, I think that left lane green arrow light would need to be extended because I can absolutely see the cars at backing up. And although
it's technically one lane, it's kind of two lanes. Again, I would if there's a way I can email somebody with all my recommendations for that area, I would love to do that as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hi, I'm um Chrissy Martin Ro. I'm on um
five Sunset A, which is on the 110 side of um the road. I'm not on the other side of Dalton. Um I'm not a public speaker, so you'll forgive me if my voice trembles, but um I just had a few things to say. Um, you know, I I walk this neighborhood all the time um with
my children and my dog and you know, people drive through our neighborhood already really really quickly. We've actually had um multiple studies done on our streets that led to no signage and nothing helping. Um our roads um Subway,
Silven, Sunset, and Senica are all cutthroughs. There are no restrictions whatsoever on our side of Dalton. On on this side of Dalton, um there are no restrictions. So, people use those cutthroughs um as fast as they want. There's nothing that's ever been done
about it. Um I worry for my across the street neighbor who has two very small children. Um during rush hour, it's if they're out there by themselves, I forget it. They're just, you know, there's no luck. Um, you know, one of the things that, um, I
wanted to address was that, you know, there's a lot of comparison that keeps happening between the stuff that happened in Chumsford in the Chumsford Center area with the Marshalls Plaza and what's happening over here at the Chumsford Mall. You can't really compare the two in my opinion because what's
happening at the Chumsburg Mall is undeveloped. What was at Marshalls, there was already a development there. So there's you can't really be comparing the two. And and you may have done beautiful things with the the Marshalls area. That's not what's going to happen over here. We're
we're talking about three major highways, 495, Route 3, and um the connector that are all going to have signage saying, you know, get off here for food. And 14,000, I think, is a very ridiculous. It's not. That's going to be
a whole lot more than that. Um, as far as new traffic coming into our neighborhood, um, putting our children and our pets at risk, um, and making it pretty much impossible for us to go anywhere, there have been times where I've wanted to go to Lowe's, um, you know, do some home improvement projects.
I've had to come out of Sunset, take a right onto 110, get on 495 to get on the little connector to get off over um at the Cross Point exit so that I can go to Lowe's because it would take less time than to just take a left out of Sunset A
and go through past Market Basket and this area. Um so yeah, it's a this, you know, 30 mile per hour thing is a joke because that's not actually the case. Um um I also um you know wanted to I was
really disappointed that the Chunter police didn't have anything to say in their letter. Um that was pretty disturbing actually knowing that you know crime of course happens everywhere. You're not going to get away from it. But um they've got to give some feedback
into what they project as you know potential crime with these two fast food and we're calling a duck a duck. It's fast food. You know you got drive-throughs. It's fast food. Um, so with these two fast food restaurants being here, you know, the crime is going to increase. We're bringing in people
that are looking for lower priced items. They're going to cross over and into our area. And I I don't want to sound rude or anything, but like it's the reality. We're going to have more crime. There's going to be more litter. There's going
to be a lot more activity in our neighborhood. And you know, I like I said, I have children that are in this neighborhood and I don't want to put them at risk. Um, so that's pretty much all I had to say, but I would really like to ask whoever it be to to try to
get the police to kind of give some input into this because I think that would be some valuable information. Thank you. Thank you, Jacob DeForge, 10 Cypress Street. Um, it was mentioned that uh some comments had been sent to Howard Stein Hudson
regarding the traffic um from Mr. Bansky. Was that the questions I sent to the DPW this morning? I believe I was I uh Tony Muchi forwarded me that email. Yes, I forwarded it to Katie.
Okay. Um I won't waste my neighbors time um rehashing everything I wrote in there. Um I did just want to comment on the uh the traffic study uh Mr. Lavali you had um mentioned including the roads uh between 110 and Dalton Road. Um I'd
like to add that the cut through traffic extends um you know Silven A all the way up to Delwood um to go north of that Steman Street intersection. There is a sign on Delwood A that says uh you know no left turn between I think I don't
know if it's seven and 9:00 am I don't really think that's enforced so you know I don't know who follows that but I don't really think that's uh doing anything there. Um non-tra questions. Um so as far as the CC zoning would they be able to build
restaurants without drive-throughs with no planning board approval? Is is it only the drive-through aspect of this that's requiring the planning board approval? The special permit, it's fast. The drive-through triggers a special permit. So, they could build a local restaurant
that people could sit down at without even coming to the planning board. They would still need a zoning permit, likely site plan, but not a special permit. Okay. Um I also wanted to comment on, you know, this the lot being full. Um I think they
said 288 spaces. I've been in that lot and when the gym and Kohl's are both very busy, the lot seems much fuller than that. Um, so I'm not sure if that needs to be looked at again. And can I ask who the peer reviewer is of that? Are they funded by the town?
The peer reviewer of the traffic study, sorry. The the planning board will contract directly with the peer reviewer. Okay. It will be at the applicant's expense. Okay. So, so they are an independent third party then. Very independent. Okay. They they report
directly to the planning board. Okay. Um we we there was a short discussion on taxes. How do we know that revenue to a Starbucks won't just take money from local coffee shops and be a complete wash for taxes? Um that's kind of a
concern for me. We've got five local coffee shops heading down 110 into the town center. um there's only one Duncan that they're competing with and bringing in another massive conglomerate chain like Starbucks might just take money from our local businesses.
I did a quick calculation. It said the average Chipotle, which is a restaurant that's been mentioned before in this uh context, has a $3 million annual gross revenue at the Chumsford meal tax rate of 0.75%. That's $22,500
in taxes for Chumsford, also known as less than $1 per resident. Um, I would happily pay $1 per restaurant to not see these go up. Um, and, uh, finally, I'd just like to address how this whole process is
occurring. Um it was mentioned that they might get the permits and then come back later for you know a more detailed discussion of what those restaurants would be. Um you know there's kind of a psychological phenomenon known as the foot in the door effect. You ask someone for a small thing and then you come back
later and ask for something else that maybe you wouldn't have gotten in the first place. So, I'd just like to emphasize that perhaps we should have more information on what these restaurants should be before um before approving these special permits potentially.
And that's all I have. Thank you to the board for your time. Thank you. Hi, my name is Shannon Foresight. My husband and I live at 234 Chumsford Street. So we are directly across from Jean Dark and the Chamsford Mall. Um a lot of my concerns, um first I should
say thank you to the presenters. You were very clear and excellent in the board as well. Um a lot of my concerns have already been addressed today. Um we are not in agreement with either of these restaurants going up. Um not only is traffic on 110 a major concern for
us, but the cut three traffic that has already been spoken about is incredibly scary. I walk with my dog multiple times a day. We have two young grandchildren that are all always visiting us and the amount of traffic increasing especially on the side streets is scary. Um right
now kids still ride bikes and play in that area and I'm worried about the safety of those kids. Outside of that, um I'm worried about the smell with grease traps as well as the exhaust of cars idling in the drive-through lines.
Um or the significantly higher levels of traffic on 110 or on the side streets waiting to get on to 110 also idling. Is there going to be any sort of air pollution study done to make sure that we don't have increase in poor air
quality in the area? I'm also very very concerned with trash. As someone that walks all the time, there is trash along 110 that is only going to get worse with people littering that that we can't control the people that are littering, but we also can't control
the amount of napkins or straws that escape out a drive-through window or just happen to fly out of your car when you're driving away. Um, so that's going to increase. And then again, noise pollution is somewhat connected to the idling cars and everything else. people beeping because they're not getting out.
Um, we already have a lot of noise. It's only going to get worse. And then the parking lot's already really, really dangerous. If you ever try to take a left out of Kohl's to go back up to the lights, you take your life in your hands sometimes. I appreciate you doing the
phase one changes. Is there any way that you can implement some of these parking lot changes now to avoid this being an issue regardless of whether or not the restaurants, the fast food restaurants go in? And my other question is, you did an awesome job at Grist Mill. Why not do
some sort of building like that? We have a housing crisis in this area right now. Why not take this space and do something that helps our community? We'd still get the tax revenue, but we'd also help people that need homes. And that's it. Thank you. Thank you.
John T. Conra Jr. 3 Wildwood Street. I just want to let you know I get about 2 inches of dirt from your h from your area. Now my house is located three Wildwood Street at the corner Dalton Road. The dust comes across the street
into my house as well as all the bags, all the cups, all the things come right into my house. I uh also want to suggest maybe we put stop signs at Manahan Street, Sunset Street, uh Dalton Road.
That's the only way you're going to get out. Uh people, go there at 5:00, go there at 3:00, go there at 6:00. The traffic is immense.
And uh not only that, every time there's an accident on 495, we get the traffic. Big trucks come flying down the street. And and I'll tell you, when they pull into Dalton Road off of Cha Street, 50%
of the cars don't give a signal they're coming down. We've had three of our grandchildren hurt uh have car accidents because no one puts on a light telling you you're going down Dalton Road. And also want to tell you that the traffic
light at Stop and Shop is owned by Stop and Shop and and they can control how that light goes. So every time one car comes out of stop and shop, it it backs up the
traffic because because now the traffic can't get out of uh demolishes, I'm sorry, market basket. Uh and and it backs up the traffic all the way down past Georgia. It goes all the way down on uh uh Thursday, Friday,
and Saturday noon time. It goes all the way down to it'll go to the new uh uh wa car wash and uh and nobody can move because if you if you're trying to get out on a Dalton road, your light backs them up
and and nobody will let you out unless there's a nice kind person that says stop and say come on out and and uh also there's already a fast food uh go to market basket. basket and
watch how many people buy stuff in Market Basket between 11 and 1:00. It's like a a circus in there. There's so many people in there, you know, and so I'm telling you, you've got to look at
things and you've got to come down and look at the traffic itself, especially when there's a traffic accident on one on 495. You cannot move. Thank you. Thank you.
Hi, uh Ralph Lubalsski, 10 Stunts A. My wife and I are 44 year residents of the Westlands. I had some traffic stories, but that would be redundant. I'll be very brief. I want to use something that Anita said earlier a couple of times. Do the does
the project bring value to the neighborhood? Now, that looks a heck of a lot better than it does right now. That's the positive. But the traffic issues are immense. And I would simply say to you, this would not bring overall value to the neighborhood. It would make
the issues that we're dealing with worse. Thanks. Thank you. I'll be brief. I'm going to beat him. I'm 51 years on Senica F. Senica A. Now, you've all been down Senica A to our
favorite liquor store. I'm sure so I speak that the traffic there that of field rep there did a marvelous job explaining we'd love a good restaurant. I think without a drive-thru,
we we could have less traffic. We think cars will pull in off the street. You're not to go one coming, one going, one coming, which blocks up the traffic. So, thank you all for your time. Um, and I hope we can just slow a little of the uh the traffic
down. And it's only going to get more the more young people we have. The cars aren't decreasing. The traffic is increasing now. There's, you know, less less youngans on the bus. They're all driving their cars now to the high school. There's traffic galore. So,
thank you for your time and uh help us. Thank you. Thank you. How you doing? Richard Hadad, 212 Dalton Road. I've been there for six years. I got a two-year-old and a two-month-old.
Um, basically my view is this intersection right here across 110. My house is on Dalton Road there. People go about 50 miles an hour down Dalton Road. I never seen someone pulled over for it. I walk down Subway to get my son from
daycare. They drive 50 miles an hour down that road. I wave my arms at them. Never see a cop parked on that road. I'm worried about cockroaches, rats from two fast food restaurants. I'm worried about signage. I'm worried about the trees getting cut down that are already there.
I'm worried about trash. I'm worried about cooking 200 burgers an hour at a fast food place and all the smoke that's going to pour over into our neighborhood. I mean, developers are going to develop, right? That's what you guys do. Engineers are going to engineer. That's what they do. and you
guys plan. If you want to listen to our comment, I think that's great. But I personally am not in favor of fast food. I could be convinced of a restaurant. I get it. The lots aren't the greatest looking thing in the world. You know what I mean? But I don't want fast food
restaurants there. We're going to have headlights pointed up at our neighborhood. As it is, you said you were upgrading the signage. I think you can see the coal sign from space. So, if you could not make that brighter, that would be great. And it's on until 11:00
every night. I mean, my house was built in 1920 and I don't think the people that built it did a wraparound and porch with the intention to stare at two fast food restaurants. And I sit out there a lot. So, I mean, kind of just echoing what everyone else said, but traffic is
terrible. I don't think this is going to make it better. So, that's pretty much all I have. Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else wish wishing to speak? Okay, Katie. Um, did you have any other
comments? Not for tonight. No. Okay. All right. And Adam, just Sure. want to say a couple of quick Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yep. Sorry about that. Um again, Adam, um I just want to say u you know, everyone, I appreciate
everybody's uh comments tonight. Um this is a a project that I'm not going to ram this project through. We're not going to put crappy restaurants in here. Um I've already turned down a lease from McDonald's. Um it's not going to be fast
food. If it if we're going to put restaurants in here, they're going to be higher quality restaurants. But I've heard a lot of the comments tonight. I think I have a lot to think about. Um, you know, I also want to mention that um, you know, these are these are small
buildings. We've added a ton of landscaping. They're they're not expensive buildings. Each of these buildings are like a million to a million and a half. We've spent quite a bit on our soft costs at this point. I mean, you know, it's going to reach a point where it just may not make
business sense for us to to go forward. But um I'm hearing the community. I'm going to go back with my team and really kind of digest everything and and see if this still makes sense for us to move forward. I think there's a reasonable chance that we may withdraw the
application. Uh but I I definitely um am hearing concerns about the community. I I will say that um we won't do a bad job if we decide to go forward. will try and put uh the best um and and you know
right now I mean there are a lot of choices um you know you could do a bank in here and have no traffic for example but do we really need another bank in town? I don't know. I mean there's other types of of users. We we could potentially do a sit down restaurant
with most most uh without a drive-thru. the demand from the the types of restaurants which are, you know, like a Chipotle or a Panera. A lot of these groups because of the pandemic, they all want drive-throughs now. So, there's more demand for those types of spaces.
But we will not fall on the if we decide to move forward, we will not be bringing in low quality operators that I think don't add value. Um, it has to look good from a site standpoint, an architecture standpoint. And, you know, the only
thing I have to say is that, you know, we're going to fall back on the things that we've done well in this community. And so, there has to be some amount of trust that we're going to do a good job, but this isn't going to be a situation where we're going to put bad retailers in here and generate smoke and trash. I
I won't allow that at my property. And we've only owned this property for for 5 months. I mean, I have to be allowed some time to operate it. And the phase one improvements, it's a it's a pretty big spend. It's 800,000 on this first investment to get all the repainting and
everything done. It's expensive. Um, but we will make this a a better location. Uh, we will make improvements. We will build relationships. I have a really good property management team. We will be meeting with neighbors. So, just going to leave it at that. I want to
think uh you know quite a bit about this night has been very helpful for me and if we decide to move forward uh we'll try and do the very best job that we can. Uh like I said this isn't an investment that we make and we're not
looking to you know grow the income quickly and sell it to somebody else. That's that's not what this is about. This is a long-term uh you know hold. It's an indefinite hold. We don't really sell properties too often. So, we make slow and careful long-term investments
to make our properties better in the communities that we work in. And just leave it at that for now, but I just want to say one, I appreciate everybody's time tonight on this board. Um, I know it's an incredible investment of your time and I really appreciate the
comments that I've heard from the neighborhood and and you know, um, we'll try and, you know, if we decide to move forward, we'll we'll do the the very best job that we can, but also I think there's a reasonable chance here that we don't move forward. Uh, and and
so that's a possibility as well. Um, and uh, you know, we'll take a look at everything and and make some decisions and go from there. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to say I wasn't going to answer any of the comments tonight, but anybody who saw me, I was frantically
writing every address down and every comment down so that I can go back to them tomorrow and also digest um with the team um as I always do for every meeting with this board. So, we appreciate your time tonight. Um, and we
look forward to working with the team to come up with the best possible project for the site. Great. Thank you. So, at this point, I will entertain a motion. Can we hold on a second because the the residents on Monahan Manahan, sorry, um
brought up um something about the in that even Chumsford or is that Lel? Do we know? And it I was on the bike path and I saw more than two tents. All right. I mean, just because I mean I know this is not related to the project per se, but it is something that was
brought up here. Um maybe Evan, we can maybe bring it back down to the to manager just to email the manager and police department um to make I don't take my children on the bike path anymore. It's probably on their property because it's to when
you're in Can we You can see it clearly. Can we If we can just bring it to police and to the town manager's attention because it did get brought up here that would be appreciate. All right. Thank you. All right.
I'll entertain a motion to continue the public hearing till next meeting. Next meeting or do we want to move it? Well, we have time for question. What's the next meeting or would this be the It would unlikely the peer review would be ready for next meeting, but I would suggest let's just continue to the July meeting.
Okay. We can always recontinue. Yeah, we can recontinue. We can talk about the the um some of the other aspects, the site plan, right? Talk about other issues. Then I will move to uh to continue the public hearing until our next regular meeting. All right. Second.
Motion by Mike, second by Anita. All in favor? Hi. Hi. Thank you very much. Thank you everyone. Thanks. All right. All right. We have gone through the agenda. Everything else, right? Yep. Um motion to adjurnn. Next, hold on. Next meeting.
Not yet. Next meeting is July 23rd. Um we'll have the opening of 191 River Road. Folks, we're still in session. folks. We're still in session. Can you
please take conversations outside? Thank you. One is towards and the other is right before the Thank you. 50 yards. I could only see two. There's probably a lot.
All right. All right. There's one by Folks. Folks, please. Outside. We're still in session. Say I can use my teacher voice. Yeah.
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Phil. I appreciate it. All right, Evan, what do we have next meeting? So, I mentioned uh the opening of the uh 191 Riverneck Road public hearing. Yeah. Um
Riverneck, we talked about what is that? The the outdoor contractor's yard. Yep. The contractor's yard. So, what was the we talked about Nimco coming in potentially for the housing production plan presentation. Uh you've continued the zoning public
hearings. That's going to be another it's going to be another long night. Um I'm not going to have probably won't have too much discussion on the zoning. Um I don't think we'll have
any more to talk about on the Middle Sex Street. Um, the Let's shut the door. Yeah, we're almost done. You talking about the the meeting about that other zoning thing that we're
talking about? So, that meeting is that Monday before the Yeah, the 21st. Is my mic even working? I don't think it is. The 21st. You have a marble mouth. It's going to come on the 21st. So, we might have stuffing on the final square.
All right. Um, yeah, it's going to be a long meeting. 6:30. Yeah. 6:30 start. I think the highlight would be Riverneck because you said the other items may be limited. Yeah. The new material. Can we talk about Are we going to have two meetings in August? Must we
with everything going on? Probably. They're scheduled for the 13th and 27th. We should try and kill the 27th. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We might want to consider that.
Is that one right before like Labor Day? Is that one? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That is right before Labor Day. When is Labor Day? That's No, that's after Labor Day. No, Labor Day is the first or second. It's before late. That's right. Labor Day is September 1st. I know. Because school starts that week.
So, yeah. Let's kill the 20 the August 27th. We okay with not doing the 27th? Yes. Yeah. I've got some stuff tying me up then, too. So, we have two meetings between now and then still. Yeah, we'll just we'll close and we'll close the zoning public hearing on
that will have been three meetings. 13th. Fine. And hopefully they'll get shorter each one. Yeah, they should be. All right. Um All right. We'll kill the 27th meeting. Oh, yay. Let's plan for 6:30 start
um for the next meeting. We're doing 6:30 start for all of them. Only for next one and we'll see how the one after goes. Stay in between.
No, you're not allowed to go home. Okay. Um I make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Sorry. Oh, it doesn't need a second, does it? Okay. All in favor? I Okay. Need a motion. Mike second. All in favor? I thank you.