[Music] good evening and welcome to chasing the facts I'm Sam Chase your host and we are starting this evening uh today is March
4th uh 2025 I should remember that because it happens to be my father's birthday and uh if he were alive today he would be 117 years old okay so needless to say he's no longer with us um what we're
doing is we're having a series that's going to run from now through March 18th those are the taping days and they'll be uh the uh shows will be rebroadcast very shortly after that in a sequenced manner and I'll explain that a little later uh
we are interviewing all of the political candidates that are running in this year's Town election the election uh will take place on April 1st which is the first Tuesday in April and uh we
have uh races for select board school committee planning board uh and housing authority and I say races uh actually for the select board we really don't have a race we have
three three seats and we have three candidates that have qualified to be on the ballot uh two of the seats are for three-year terms and one seat is a two-year term to fill out an unexpired uh term which is George Dixon's term
George will be stepping down as a selectman uh effective April 1st so we have uh candidates running for all three seats and uh we have Pat Wes who is uh
the incumbent uh select person and Pat has had uh and she'll tell us later but it's in excess of 15 years I believe in service and we have Aaron Cunningham at the end of the table he is the other
candidate for the three-year position and Aaron is a newcomer uh in terms of running for elected office in selectman if if we don't count the uh town meeting rep obviously and then Jeff Hardy who is a longtime uh choun resident a Towny I
believe born and raised in town Jeff has served as a town meeting rep for many years and also uh many many years on the cemetery commission but Jeff is uh 03 I keep I keep confusing and Pat she
corrected me before and I didn't remember I keep confusing you with your father who was on there for at least 40 years am I right and my grandfather preceded him as well well there you are so it's practically illegal to not have a Hardy on theary commission we we'll see how that works out but it will
happen uh you cannot hold under chelsford toown Charter you cannot uh hold two elected offices at the same time townwide yeah townwide right you can have uh you can sit on 10 appointed offices but you can only have one
elected you you can't have two elected so Jeff will have to step down from the cemetery uh commission when he's elected so as I said these are uncontested seats but I thought it was important to get all candidates here and we'll have a little discussion and introduce uh the
uh two newcomers to the community and uh so let's uh let's open that up so usually what we would do is have each person give a little brief biographical summary uh whatever you want to say uh we'll hear from all of you and then we'll get into the discussion so why
don't we start with with uh with Aaron oh um thank you very much Sam and um Pat and Jeff I'm glad to be sitting here at the table with you this year um so for those that don't know me my name is Aaron Cunningham um and obviously running for select board and uh this
will be my second run so if you recall from last year uh I gave it a good try working uh working a campaign against Pat and uh George and um very glad that they uh were able to win their respective seats and
um a little sad to see George go after all these years of service but um you know I I uh appreciate the um the opportunity to have run last year so this year you know um I still consider myself a newer resident especially sitting next to um Pat and Jeff haven't
only lived here about seven years but um as many of you know um I've been in the community now for the better part of 20 years my kids went through the school system here from the um original uh version of lions Pride at Westlands um all the way up to now having a graduate
um one graduating this year and uh one that's a freshman so as uh Sam mentioned I've been a town meeting rep now for Precinct 9 for a few years um I've served on a couple of committees recycling committee um and currently on the strategic planning committee so if you got that email the other day make
sure you get out and uh give your feedback on that and um you know again I have 25 years of experience public private heeld companies uh mostly in the finance Arena and uh I certainly look forward to getting your vote this year and serving with Pat and Jeff uh on the
select board so thank you for the time and the introduction thank you Jeff Sam where do I begin wherever you want Happy Fat Tuesday um that means Spring's coming so that's a great thing um my name is Jeff Hardy as Sam mentioned I'm a lifelong
resident in chood as is my father as is my daughter I'm a chood high graduate and after chumford I went on to Danny Webster College in nashille which unfortunately isn't there anymore to get my bachelor's in business and marketing and then once I got out of school I went
to work for the family business that used to be in L and we moved to chumford in the late 90s with my brother and my father um obviously since I had a stroke five years ago and I can't do my job the way I used to my brother now runs the company and since then I've been hired
as a director on our national franchise which is based out of Marshall Illinois and that's pretty much my primary job right now which forces me to do a lot but it's I love it because I started out working in a small business now I'm working on an international franch national
International and National franchise which gives me a whole different perspective on on types of things and then also 20 years on the parade committee and as Sam mentioned three years on the uh Cemetery committee which once my Dad decided to step down I ran
for his seat and hope to eventually go back to that which that's my passion um that's that's good Pat okay uh my name is Pat Wes um uh you everybody I would expect already probably knows most
of the most of the facts about my my biography my history in in town um I also grew up in in uh in chamford and graduated from chamford high school from there I went to UMass amher where I received a bachelor's degree in economics and while at UMass Amherst I
enrolled in the uh in a newly formed for women anyway Air Force ROTC program so when I graduated I was commissioned into the air force uh and uh served um I had my training in at kler Air
Force Base in buuy Mississippi and the Air Force taught me how to program computers which was a kind of a new thing for everybody about about that time um and then I served the rest of my active duty time in tin at Tinker Air Force Base in um Oklahoma
City um when I finished uh when I was discharged from active duty um I was in the process of getting my master's degree in Oklahoma so I stayed there and and did that I worked couple of jobs in in Oklahoma
City got my degree um and then after a couple more years I decided to move back to chamford to see what was see what I could accomplish in chamford um after working for a few companies in chemsford I decided to start my own business a Consulting
business worked with several uh on in a Consulting basis several businesses several local businesses and uh um enjoyed doing that then in 2004 I decided to take the the leap into local
politics I ran for a seat on the library trustees was elected to that I served one term there and then I ran for the select board and I've been on and off the select board since then for a total of about a little over 15 years um so
I'm going to try to do it again see if we can see if I can make it three more years but I do also want to mention as as Aaron did um the the respect that we we have for George Dixon um he's uh he's he's been amazing on the board and he is
stepping down um and but there's other others too that have served the the community Virginia Crocker Timmons is also not is she's not running for reelection after two terms and on other boards um we're we're losing Mike Walsh from the planning board and Denise marel
who has served 25 years on the chanced Housing Authority which is amazing I don't know how anybody does that but and she is a definitely a driving force on the definitely on the Housing Authority she's going to be missed so that's my story for now and um
you're going to stick to it right for now okay that's good the way this works uh folks is I have a series of questions and just so that the audience knows uh and and if you've watched the show you know this uh you know I'm not Bill O'Reilly or anybody I don't try to I
don't try to practice gcha so generally when I do interviews the uh panelists all all have that information in advance because we want them to be prepared and and give good answers and there's nothing wrong with that so there won't be any surprises uh and I will ask
questions generally and give each person a chance to respond I have a couple of questions that are uh directed specifically at the newcomers and and one for the incumbent so we'll do that as well uh and uh so we we just try to
have this in more of a discussion format so if if a person makes a comment or says something uh the other two uh candid Ates feel free to comment on it and just remark we'll have a discussion if if the uh if the conversation uh
lends itself to that and so with that said we'll start so the first question that you ask any candidate for political offices why why are you running and we'll start with Jeff well as I mentioned I as you mentioned Sam I was a
former town meeting rep and have worked on different committees for many years in town and have always been interested in it but because my job would not allow me the time well now I'm not working as much at the family business and I have the time and then uh when I heard George
was stepping down I thought well you know what only a towy should take his place so I called George and I said are you okay with me pulling papers he said absolutely so he and I have spoken a few times I believe they're having a appreciation party for him on March 24th
up at The Establishment and I hope everybody will go over and and thank him for his years of service to the town and George and I I mean we go back on conversations that you know I mean I've lived in this town for 60 years George for longer than that
we talk about you know his dad used was George is going to be parade Marshal this year I'm probably speaking out of turn that's okay and his father was 50 years ago so I mean he was he was really overwhelmed when he heard that yes which I was excited that we're going to do
that this year um so I'm running because I have an opportunity and I figured you know I've grown up in this town this town is my family my grandchildren are in the school system and my parents still live in town my dad is a ched I graduate and
you know it's this town is my family and I do a lot of traveling when people ask me where I'm from they expect me to say Boston and I say nope chumford Massachusetts and they look and I said look it up if you go anywhere in New England you have to drive through Chumps that's how it goes
and um and I'm proud of that so that's basically why I'm running good um again thank you Sam for for the question so um I think my answer this year is is going to be similar to to
what I said before it's the it's the right time for me personally and professionally um I you know people don't know that these boards and committees in some cases can be full-time jobs and um and and so in order to do it right you have to
dedicate the time and um I think with the experience that I have where I I don't necessarily have the in all of the Town history I certainly have a respect for it and I certainly know a lot of people that have educated me George has spent a lot of time giving me Council here and there too so um which again
George I I appreciate that um but I think especially now uh given the the financial challenges that that the town is facing that we knew were coming and my expertise in that and in business and in hard decision- making um and I'm not
equating fiscal policy for a corporation is the same as the town for the town um it's not just about you know revenue and cost and profit and all that it's really about um providing people the critical services and the essential services that they have um so even though my
background in business in in finance will be um valuable um I'm running because I have a commitment to this community now we fin had the opportunity to move here uh my intention is to stay here for uh until I need Jeff's services and then we'll um and then we'll move on
so um I I that that's really what's driving my candidacy I to be honest with you after the last election it was a great experience and I would do it again but I wasn't sure if I was going to run um but I met a lot of people last year I had a lot of interesting conversations and people
were so willing to share um there's not too many places I could go since the last election where somebody wouldn't say hey are you going to run again I get a tap on the shoulder and and to be honest with all the folks out there I recognize the faces I don't recognize all the names yet um but just the fact
that you know on a weekly basis I was getting a tap on the shoulder hey you think you're going to run again let me know if you're going to run again I'll hold signs uh let me know what I can do to help and and I figured that support didn't wne so instead of waiting till the last minute to pull papers like I did this year um I was there at 9:00 on
the day we could pull so and I have a little tip for you so however long you serve on the board after you finished your service for at least eight years after that people will ask you if you're going to R again I still have one of your signs you
still have one of my signs so Pat well they probably still think you're on the board never mind asking they may um so yeah I guess I agree with uh you know with what's been said um I've I've been into a long time I I kind of
have some institutional knowledge of of how things have worked what's worked what hasn't worked and as as Jeff said and and Aaron there there's challenges coming to the town in the near future um Financial challenges probably housing challenges we know there's a lot of you
know a lot of talk about that at the state level trying to encourage more more housing and I know that you know it's unfortunate almost that George is is stepping down because he's been such an advocate for affordable housing especially for for elderly elderly folks in town in order to keep them in town so
that's that's going to be a challenge going forward um as far as maintaining the services that we have now um uh given the the limited resources we get from the state it's so unfortunate that over 75% of the our budget every year is
funded through the real estate tax um the the state really doesn't share I don't think fairly between especially towns and cities you know they get way cities seem to get get the bigger bigger piece of the pie so coming up with more um Revenue ideas is going to be a big
challenge in in the in the near future um and I guess you know some people say well haven't you served long enough well looking at how I haven't heard that have you heard that looking at how how the board is going to look you know a month from now um I think it's important to
have some of that institutional knowledge on the board so that's my story on that well that's very good Pat because you've kind of touched on two other areas here so let's let's kind of uh springboard off of that so uh Pat was just talking about uh she was mentioning
some of the challenges that that you folks are going to face going forward and of course the biggest one is the financial challenge the town manager uh over a year ago uh outlined to the town through various Outlets that fiscal 26 was going
to be a very very tough year uh financially so we've had plenty of advanced notice this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody but as Pat just alluded to uh the major source of revenue for the town is the property tax so it's a you were very close it's about
77% okay and uh so we're constrained obviously by proposition two and a half we're at the max in terms of how how much we can actually increase that okay so the question is uh given the fact that we're facing this scenario and this
is the first year and it probably isn't going to get better quickly down the road I wouldn't imagine um do you folks have any ideas how we can approach this uh and and as you said Aaron in your opening statement uh try to hold on to
as much of the current services that we provide as we possibly can because I don't think residents would be terribly happy if we had to materially reduce the core Services of the town so uh go ahead Jeff uh Aaron thanks
um yeah so you know obviously what created a little bit of this problem is inflation raise was so high it it accelerated all these costs above that two and a half%
to be able to keep up um so we have a we have a we have a floor of of cost that you know if anybody's looked at the budget and and I certainly have um I'm a little concerned about us cutting leaner or having to cut bone um so i' rather
take the other approach and let's we really need to get creative on Revenue generation and because of the legal constraints of prop two and a half not that I would necessarily want to go to the residents or businesses for more money right because they're feeling the
same pinch that the town is um I'm still advocating that I I think we need to work towards becoming more business friendly and filling up some of the unused um square footage that's out there um we need to do things that will
uh attract both large and small business to town and and create a new source of Revenue that we're not collecting on today um and I'm certainly open to other opportunities I know that there's there's been um some potential ideas floated out there um I always do worry
about the unintended consequences of us chasing after a dollar so instead of making kind of a policy announcement or anything like that that or a stand that I would take today I would just say that I am looking forward to working with the board on where can we get more revenue
and to Pat's Point um I think sometimes chumford gets overlooked by our um state and federal um representatives and I'm definitely interested in myself taking more of a role in meeting with those
people on a regular basis um and pushing for and making the pitch for CHF for you know sometimes that squeaky wheel gets oiled um so I think we need to leave no stone unturned with that with that Revenue generation and I'd like to see simple things like the Reps coming back
when Tammy Goa was one of our reps should show up at Town Hall say hey I'm going to be there and I'd go over there and it would be me and sometimes a couple other people and we got to talk directly to them um I think that direct communication needs to occur a little bit more and again maybe it is happening
you know with with Pat and some of the other board members but again for me it hasn't necessarily been visible so um we we we're going to have to get creative or we're going to have to look at cutting bone if I'm not willing to sacrifice a firefighter a police officer a DPW
person um but nor am I willing to go to Dr Lang and and that team and say you got to give up more that the quality of our schools drives our property values and if those School quality doesn't stay the property values aren't going to stay there creating a bigger Revenue problem
so we really have to get creative with Revenue generation and I think people need to know Sam that times are going to be tough um but we'll get through it and we'll come out better on the other side okay Jeff well to dub tail on that I know there's a ballot question U this
year for open a dispensary zoning and I know towns like uh Tings Boro talking about marijuana yes towns like drit are pulling in over a million ion dollar a year on taxes from those from the uh dispensaries they already have in their town and every town around us is doing
that and we actually have one in Drum Hill right now which is a Stones Throw from the border and the the nice thing at this point is the since the state had um approved it years ago we've kind of gotten past all the concerns of what will happen if you put a you know all
the Hyperbole and all that stuff and it's a and the longer we wait on that the worse it's going to be because I think it was a was that a fairly close vote in town meeting Pat do you remember when we voted on that I I don't remember I don't think it was very CL as town
meeting I know on the election on the on the ballot question itself the state ballot question yes it it was fairly close that's what I'm saying I didn't mean to cut you off Jeff I just wanted to it's I'm saying we got to focus on more things like that that are going to bring revenue and and not put additional
burden on our expenses a million would be nice wouldn't it yeah it would hire a teacher a firefighter or a uh police officer and hold you know janson's job which I agree is very important because right now we she did a lot of work with
the homeless and we're going to have to find ways to supplement that and um and I know the board is recognizing that already so but I also look it I know there's a proposal out there with the planning board about some pad Lots down
in the old uh lighthouse area where they're talking about possibility of a restaurant and it doesn't have to be a drive-thru or a Starbucks or another Duncan which this town needs more Dunkin Donuts we all need know that um but that lot right now
is getting a tiff and if you allow these pads to go through that Tiff goes away and it creates the reeven the correct revenue from that for our viewers a tiff is a a tax in uh increment financing Arrangement that uh basically is a concession that the town makes on real
estate taxes and it's tied to the amount of uh jobs that a business brings into the town and uh so obviously if a business has a has a tiff agreement on it uh over time you will get less tax revenue than you otherwise would so
that's what Jeff is talking about so if we can displace a tiff business with one that isn't and if the real estate values are relatively the same the town the town will benefit so yeah I'm think it's more things like that we have to well you're really thinking out of the blocks
I like that that's good yeah so well that's what 60 years of living in town absolutely Pat you've already touched on it a little but would you like to expand on that uh at all sure and and kind of to address some of the the things that have been said I mean um Aaron mentioned
about um having concerns about our state reps and quite frankly I think our state reps the fact that we have three you know people some people don't like that but every year since since I've been on the board anyway our state reps whether we had have three or four and then the state
senator have brought back ear marks to the town which always benefit us it's always something that we would not be able to do otherwise so I give them a lot of credit for that and they they do stay in touch um you know and the past few years we've had them come to our board meetings at least twice a year to
give us updates on what's going on and let us be able to grill them uh sometimes quite quite heated about what is going on on in at the state house so I just wanted to mention that yeah um I mean as far as the services you know uh Sam I'm sure you
remember in 2008 when we had that downturn and we had to cut some Services we we cut um leaf pickup we cut lifeguards at the beaches and we we stopped uh Sunday hours at the library and then as the economy got better we
restored all those things and and made made Personnel cuts too we lost almost $2.8 million out of the uh from state aid okay and it was that was devastating yeah yeah well to talk about the lifeguards um one idea I had at being a
longtime board me director of the trumps of Business Association I thought you know what a great opportunity to go to the businesses and say hey let's sponsor a day at the beach and pay for a life guard but that's not the only Pro the problem is they're not out there I guess the YMC is no longer you mean the the
pool of available people to be lifeguards does not exist exactly okay that's I didn't know that that's why we didn't have any last year that okay that answers that question I guess yeah so I think if if we could find them I could find the finance I mean I know there'd be businesses in town who would jump all
over that opportunity especially guys like locked Martin I mean I know a lot of their employees take walk the bike path at lunchtime and yeah they're right there yeah and they would they would I would assume um I I don't know I know they've worked with the parade Committee in the past but I don't know the people
over there personally but I making an assumption maybe I'm going to be wrong but I would I'd have a hard time believing any of the business people in town that care about the town if we went to them and said look we need a little bit of money to help get a lifu on a beach CU I never want to hear another
story about a child drowning I mean we know we have friends in town who've gone through that and that's we never want to see that story again right and if we can do something about well let's do something about it and engage the community to work towards it and if if I
could also continue a little bit about um Revenue generation um yeah Jeff has some some good outof the-box ideas but there are even some proposals right now at the state house um to increase the the local option taxes I don't I know if you you remember that was around the
same time around 2008 2009 that we had we had the option to start the meals tax and the hotel tax and I remember people were so upset about I I was totally in favor of it people were so upset about it because they said well nobody's ever going to come to Cha to to eat in the
restaurant again or ever going to stay 775 cents on a $100 restaurant tab yeah I don't think that's going to keep people out of the town maybe I don't know what I'm talking about right and now there are very few communities that don't have that implemented so this is the option to add
another quarter to that so we'd have a dollar out of every $100 that you spend I think given inflation that's probably Justified right 75 cents back then is is is worth a dollar now so at least yeah yeah right and also with the hotels you know they they'll potentially allow us
to increase that somewhat um and and the other the other thing as I said before is just to Advocate to our our legislative delegation about sending us more you know generally generally more money because the way that the state usually collects the money very often is
is via income tax and we can't Implement a local income tax not that I would want to but I think an an income tax to me is much less regressive than a real estate tax um it's the people who can afford it that pay the most that way and and
that's to me that's the way it should be I mean they're not going to they're not going to become poor if they're if the income tax rate is raised a little bit um but the the the people on the lower end of the income rate income um ladder are not going to going to be impacted as
much so that's now that's the whole point of progressive taxation as as you indicated the real estate tax is is is very difficult uh for some folks in town and uh I know that because I'm on the board of assessors and I see uh what the
effects are and have to look at the uh requests for uh abatements and so forth and and quite frankly we get many requests for um assistance you know uh from from folks
who have a hard time so uh you let into this question and course you all knew you were going to get this the town has a split tax rate and we all know this and the split tax rate means that the uh commercial property commercial and industrial property owners pay their
real estate tax uh at a higher rate at a higher tax rate than a residential taxpayer uh pay so the history there is the select board implemented that in fiscal year 2019 uh they went from uh a flat rate
all the way up to 27% which was kind of a large jump that year uh and since then the board has uh successively rolled it back so we're sitting I believe now it's 117 okay so uh the bo board has brought
that back so how do you folks feel about the split tax rate in general um just generally and and and maybe more specifically how it applies in chumford so Aaron um so I actually had to learn about this last year um and there was
there's some nice presentations on the uh the town website and um you know my my I think my position remains uh Remains the Same um the decision was made the math was done
and it was put into place um you do take I mean it's dollars and cents so you do take a pool of the taxes and you shift it over a greater pool into a smaller pool so it does and and being a former small business owner um I recognize how
every penny can can count and how it can be um uh difficult for businesses I think my position Remains the Same right now I'm always up for looking at it and looking at a way to make sure that it's it's Equitable but I
haven't seen seen anything and I I reserve the right to be educated on this obviously I haven't seen anything where um the there are businesses that have gone out of business or are struggling to stay afloat on this yet so again if if that's happening then I do think it
needs to be looked at um what I wouldn't want to do is just say hey this isn't fair blanket statement we're going to roll it back to one to one um our 1.17 I think it's at now um is not anywhere near as honorous as some of the other towns so I think you know chumford
at the time found a compromise so be before we I'd like to be a little bit more educated I like to see what the impacts have been in what they're having now given the current economic environment because everybody including our local business is struggling and if there's a more Equitable way to spread
that tax then I'm open to looking at it but right now I don't I don't think I'd just come in and upset the apple cart and say this is what we got to do okay it's a fair statement well Sam I'm not going to everybody knows my history when it comes to this issue um I am dead set
against the split rate and I understand the 18 committee said we should not take big jumps and in the same discussion we shouldn't take big jumps back right I think what the board's been doing has been responsible you know I look at it this way
is you've done a great job presenting um what's the real benefit to the resident it doesn't create one dime for the town so this does nothing to help forward exactly just to just to clarify that a little bit so for the folks that are watching um whether we have a flat
rate or we have a split rate that does not generate one extra dollar of tax revenue it is simply a way of Distributing the tax burden over the real estate base okay so that's what it does so continue well in my personal
situation I got my parents who are retired in the late 8 mid to late 80s um and the business is their retirement so when we overburden the business with extra taxes if we put that against what they might save at their home which is pennies compared to what we're paying
over at the at the business so I think inherently it's unfair but that's just that's me I mean I've always said that and and I think we should be focusing more on trying to find Revenue sources instead of Shifting the burden to people who can't vote cuz commercial property owners can't vote they don't have a
voice except the Business Association so MH um that's just my feeling I I didn't get on the board to eliminate it this is not I'm not here to flip everything on its head that's not my intention right okay well that's a fair answer Pat well
uh this is another one of those questions where everybody I'm sure knows knows my feelings on this I say that I say it at every um tax classification hearing um I think it it is unfair to overly burden the businesses like we like we have done like that that massive
you know in inrease um in 2019 when it went to you know 27 1.27 as as Jeff has mentioned earlier I feel like almost all the businesses in town are I'd almost call them partners with the with the town because whenever
you have a a problem uh you know need something funded you need um donations for you know a little league team or something like that they always Step Up um there are some individuals that way that we know are pretty well off and they they're always there to open their wallet when when you have a situation
that's that there's a need and businesses also you know the um the parade is a is a very good example um where there are so many businesses that contribute to that so that not one penny from the from the from the taxes is
contributed to to the pr that that is a good example yes so so you know uh and and I think you know the reason a lot of other communities are more successful in in tax class ification is because they have a much larger percentage of
businesses I think people don't realize that what's it what's the split now is it like 8317 yeah but that's not all real estate it's 8317 but about 4% of that is personal property so really it's only about
133% of your of your real estate base that's that's in the commercial which is you're right that's it's a tough situation right and and so that so that means that for the a resident to save $1 we have to almost get 10 extra dollars from business so it's just it to me it
is unfair it it and I again I not to Circle back but I I agreed that it's definitely not fair um I do think because I've I've heard people kind of make some arguments for and against on this for me and I think Pat's right
right there are other communities that have bigger businesses and this and and their businesses that are bigger literally bigger businesses they they can afford to absorb some of this almost like a progressive you know like a progressive tax who can afford who can't and chumford has a lot of small
businesses and I recognize again as a small business % over 50% of the commercial is small business in chumford that hurts that's why I've never that's why I've always said educate me a little bit more on it let's look at the numbers and have a data decision data um data
driven decision um because I think it's important to look at I also want to make we're business friendly although I don't know how many businesses come in and they look at the tax rates before they do business here but it's something that if we do it right we can use it to you
know promote in a positive way so um I definitely you know understand where where Jeff is coming from um and I I Pat's positions very clear on it so if it continues to be something that that we need to look at then I think it's the
board's responsibility to continue to evolve that um but I I I would definitely think our focus is again Revenue generation this is just shifting it around a little bit and Pat right the number of small businesses I deal with with kids in school that give to the
community sometimes I don't know how they do it um because they give so much so it's we're lucky to have who we have here well to respond to eron's comment I can tell you when we were loc we our business started in LOL in 1930 with my
grandfather 1930 yes we're coming up on 100 years wow and um we we were outgrowing our space and when my father started looking around at properties for us to move he was looking in LOL and the taxes he was like nope we're going to Cher we're not going to LOL and that
that's a example of why I mean that was driving force behind behind our decision I we had similar buildings that were closer to our current location at the time but the tax rate was ridiculous and my dad's like nope we're going to go back to roots and so we get back to
Chumps and and we've doubled the size our business at that point so but people don't understand what the whole law was created about it was created to decrease commercial taxes not increase them because when years ago Boston used to
over tax their commercial base to help it was used as a political football to offset the residents and the state came in and finally said nope you're gonna tax it a fair value you're gonna tax at a full and fair value and un and so the cities are like if we do this
we're going to kill our residents and they said okay this is what we'll do we'll let you split it and work it back down a level and that's what that was created for it wasn't created to give towns the ability to shift the burden over to the commercial base that actually is somebody who has studied
that issue extensively I can absolutely confirm that what you said is true that's about that was about 80% of the legislative intent for uh an acting the split tax rate and uh when they finally codified it the legislature didn't put any uh parameters around how local
select boards or city councils could exercise their Authority they just left it open-ended so uh 90% of the cities and towns that do split the rate they don't have a particular reason for doing it other than giving the residents a break that's why they do it but that was
not you're right Jeff that's a very good point that was not the original legislative intent that's it's a good example of how things unintended cons you said it you just said it again and that's it's exactly right that's that's what's happened so well people don't understand that business owners don't put their work
boots on in the morning and slide down a mountain of money like the Joker and the Dark Knight Rises I mean that's not the way it is I mean business owners and I mean I advocate and I I will always advocate for the business owner um not that I'm not involved in my family
business like I used to it's my brother's business now um but that being said it's still my parents retirement and that's MH what I look at very important so well I think uh We've I think the uh the CBA would be very proud of all of us for how we've discussed
this issue so uh that's good um you're all obviously aware of of that chelwood is a charter town we have a town Charter which is essentially the constitution of the town and uh I'd like to get your thoughts on uh because another year or two I think we're going to be we're up
for another Charter review yeah so um we'll be taking a look at that as a town so do you have any thoughts as to uh how the town uh government is currently structured any changes you think might be appropriate for the town uh any other
areas of the charter you think might be addressed and and uh uh so forth so we'll start uh we'll start with upat okay um yeah I think you know there's a few things that I'd like to see change in the charter um one is I have a just a philosophical disagreement
with three member boards and committees um and we have a couple of those in town the cemetery commission is one uh the Board of Health is another um seems like there's one other one well but that's not elected good point um we're spared I I
wouldn't say that I wouldn't say that I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't you know five five person board would be fine yes right and and but yeah those are the ones that are in the charter what assess is you're right you're right so that's that's one thing I'd like to see change it's another thing that it's a very
minor thing but it just really annoys me all the time is the fact that um the the time from the if you work backwards from when a town meeting is to see when the select board has to sign the the town meeting warrant before the town meeting
and whenever the original people that set this up when they had the original char Charter commission I don't know why they did this but they included the town election in the Spring Town Meeting Charter so that means that the select board has to close that Charter and I
mean that that warrant for the town meeting and sign it almost a month earlier for Springtown meeting than they do for fall town meeting and that's to me that's significant because there might be you might need more opportunity to discuss what what's going to be on
the the town meeting warrant well the spring warrant as as the school and the town budgets I mean that's exact yeah very important right yeah so that's one thing I I I don't know why they didn't separate those out have a separate warrant for the election because we have warrants for every every other election
you know the federal elections and state elections we always have warrants separate warrants for those elections I don't know why we can't have a separate warrant for the for the local election and then have a different warrant just for that town meeting so that's one like I said it's it's minimal but you know
it's something I don't know I I'm not sure that's minimal I I I it does you've been on the charter commission a couple of times and you uh you actually brought that up in our last session I remember that and uh um I I guess I agree with you I mean I I I would like to see that change made as well just speaking
personally so because that would have a uh that would have a wonderful impact I'd also like to see the election uh put out another month I I'd rather have it in May than April so after the some some sometimes have the election after time meeting rather than before and that's something I think should be considered
yes to to talk about that because because you might have uh well you have brand new people who may not be totally aware of what's going on so right yeah so I think there are a number of areas that but those are those are good ones you have
any thoughts on that um yeah so I so the answer is no I don't have any kind of passionate thoughts but I I I do look at this and because I've been trying to get up to speed so I can kind of hit the ground running because you're going to have you know this obviously an important to meeting coming up and um
and I agree with Pat that the timeline seems a little crunched um and and again I'm not even on the board yet just but just trying to be prepared to be on the board um and it's that I kept thinking when I was talking with manager Cohen
the the continuity right you're going to have new board members coming in at the time they're going to now have to sit in front of town meeting and answer things that they Jeff and I haven't been necessarily a part of um so I I would I agree with with um with some of the
things that that um that Pat said but otherwise I think you know the board is supposed to set policy I don't that's the charter should always be that um we should you know clearly state that we're going to continue to have the financial oversight um I think now that we're
going to have a a real strategic plan we need to step into that and continue to evolve that process and and filter that down um because as we go through these lean times operating efficiently and as efficiently as possible is going to kind of be critical to getting through these
times so um and then just continue again continuing the role of um representing the community um in in all of the capacities that the board does now and more if we deem appropriate so um I do like Pat's idea if we can move the
election and sort out the calendar a little bit um I think it would allow the board to be a little bit more efficient and allow for some better continuity any any thoughts on uh any thoughts on appointed versus elected offices because uh in a charter uh review situation you can make
recommendations to make those changes as well so I I I appreciate the question since we may have had um some off- camera discussions about it and I was talking about the effort that the planning board has to go through and I've sat in some of those meetings and I
walk out of there and it's can be sometimes dizzying and and I was asking Sam a little bit about the history um and that's an electric that's an elected board um so I sometimes I think um what would be nice on that board is maybe a
little bit of of balance um I'm not saying that we take it away from the hands of folks but maybe some of those positions could be appointed to allow the select board to select people that maybe have more of a background that can
help the elected members go I'm not again I'm not making a policy pronouncement I'm not advocating for a change but I think looking at how some of these critical boards are made up um is certainly within the the purview of the select board and should be as the
charter committee uh when the time comes up and you will have your chance because you will be on the board uh when the next uh Charter review session comes up so you can plead that case I well I say that now but somebody may come along and educate me on why that statement I just
made was not smart no well that as a as a matter of fact there are some it's a small number but there are some towns with mixed appointed and elected uh people on their boards and planning board uh as a seveners board uh is
probably something that you might want to look at uh so uh it it is done in some other communities so that's not that's not too far a field you know I'm I mean I'm a believer that the people in town need to have a voice and they need to vote and if you vote then you that
you know that is your voice um but some of this work is complex and some of this work is difficult and when you're working full-time and you're dealing with a family full-time and now you add a nearly full-time you know un you know
elected job that's not paid um I think you these folks are doing the best they can and some of them are very knowledgeable they're not attor but they're they're not they're not necessarily some of the experienced I think if I was an elected board member on the planning board and I had some
expertise at the table to help guide then then I would I personally would be okay with that okay that's just one example any any thoughts well I haven't studied the charter as much as I probably should have at this point I'll admit that right now and I will definitely going forward take another
look but to Pat's point about three person boards I mean I look at the cemetery there's not five people in town who understand the whole thought process behind the decisions of the cemeteries I mean I'm fortunate I travel all over the country and I study different Cemetery I
can tell you our cemeteries um department is one of the best in the country we've got three people overseeing six properties and that's unheard of in any other Town um so and looking at some having six
cemeteries in a town is unheard of isn't it I mean that's that's we' got to be almost unique in that area well we've been around since 1655 So eventually you know you got to get you run out of space here you got to find a new space so um but to Pat's point is I mean how many
open town meeting seats do we have right now yeah there's a lot and I don't think there's enough people to run for I mean I understand you're concerned about going from a three person board to a five person board I'm not disagreeing with that I just don't know if we have the people that are willing to step up
and do the job good point and back to Aaron's point is you know you talk about planning board like you say you need land use attorneys and having having educated attorneys on the board would be crucial but how many attorneys are going to step up and want to do that job
especially if they own a practice in town yeah no that's a problem that is a problem so well kind of to to that point about not having um people with that expertise that are that are willing to put themselves out there for an election maybe there's some of these these Boards of committees that should be made
appointed that that you don't need to have because that's what's scary to so many people they don't want to go out and have to to get the signatures have to be on a ballot and then worry about if they're going to get elected um I I you know I think if if we put the word out you know we need five people that
with some expertise background in Cemetery management to step up I I think you're more likely to get five people and I think there are five people in town we just haven't identified them yet right and I I think Pat's right cuz when I first got to town and said I'm not going to get involved in town politics
and the first thing I did is saw what they had for open appointments and said the recycling committee looks good for me but I just had to be myself and go to the select board the town manager um and when I pulled papers the first time for town meeting rep having to go around then it was 25 signatures and knock on
those doors I mean obviously I'm a little bit more comfortable doing that now but back then um it was it was pretty nerve-wracking so you know again I feel like we should elect as many people should take the opportunity as they can and run for office it's a it's
a great and humbling experience at the same time but we do need to be able to function and we do need to have people that can dedicate the time and have the expertise so to Pat's point maybe it is a time to kind of review and see where we can either mix elected and unelected
and and where places where we need more staff and the best way to do it is to make it an appointed board again as long as we're not taking away people's voice um I'm going to be supportive of making any of those alterations I I'll say one thing in in in support of Pat's three board thing one of the problems I see
with the threers board is you could have a situation where one person always makes the decision exactly people that don't constantly disagree exactly and and so that's not a good situation I I haven't I've been in town 46 years I I
don't think I've seen that Dynamic so we've been fortunate that that that hasn't happened because to Jeff's point you we get generally we get really pretty good people that step up to run for these offices and Cemetery board is a perfect example of that uh and there
are others as well so um well time is running short I want to get all of your uh folks input on uh we talked about the town Charter and a little bit about how the town is is organized uh politically so we've had a town manager in town who
is in his 19th year 19th year he was appointed in November of 2006 I remember that very well actually and that is unusual uh in in in town
manager circles typically a manager might go anywhere from three to seven years is the normal term Paul's been here for 19 years so two questions one your appraisal of how Paul has done how he has of the town and uh
understanding that probably within the next I would say probably within the next three or four years he might be looking at moving on uh retiring from his position so any thoughts on on that situation as well so I'm G to make it easy on you to I'm G to start with Pat
because I know she's already thought about this well I I think Paul's done an excellent job as our town manager um he's had some tough tough goes of it he's had some challenges that he's he's come through all of those um I think he he thinks ahead as you mentioned he's
he's warned us for a long time about the financial situation that we're going to be in so so nobody should be surprised about that um I I I think he's creative in some of his solutions that he comes up with when we when we do have issues
um I mean as and as far as um you know going forward um I'm I'm not ready to say he's going to be gone in three or four years I hope as far as I'm concerned I'm going to support him as as long as he's willing to stay MH um so I
I hope he does stay on for for a long time and what was the other part of the question I think you addressed both it was it was you know what you think of his performance generally and anticipating uh possible retirement in the near future so I think you answered that Jeff okay well I've had the
opportunity to work with Paul a little bit he comes to every parade committee he doesn't have to do that he can go home and spend time with his family but he wants to be part of what we're doing and offer his insight and um give us the the Avenue of communication to different
boards and the police department and the fire department and any business Community member who may be willing to support the event and I can tell you I mean PA thing about Paul is if you disagree with him he'd be excited to
explain his position just a couple weeks ago I was at a was at a meeting and there was a woman sitting there and she was frustrated and she was ready to L lay in the PA I got to give Pat so much credit cuz she wanted to get up and just start banging the desk and Pats like you're not on the agenda we can't do
that and I and I'm so glad she did because afterwards she came out she and Paul I give him so much credit he turned over put a big smile on his face hi what can I do for you what do you want what do you want to know this was after the meeting wased right and she said why are
you lying to the community so I sat back I'm like oh this is going to be fun and Paul put a big smile he says what am I lying about well you said this and this and he goes no that's not true and I'm going to tell you why it's not true and but he didn't get combative he didn't get abrasive I mean he sat with a big
smile on his face and said let me explain to you why your statement is false and he did and like I said he he didn't do it in a dismissive way at all I mean he was more he was excited to explain mhm why she was wrong and she was wrong and she admitted after she was
wrong so she she left a somewhat happy constituent oh the next day she got on Facebook and told what a what a great experience she had talking to Paul which I thought was I mean that says a lot to me you know as somebody as our town manager I mean if you disagree with
something Paul's saying you can go talk to him and tell him that I disagree and this is why and he'll explain you why he's doing what I mean that's all you can ask for exactly right so that's good Aon any thoughts yeah I you know I think it goes hands down that the the guy
starts just before 2008 you know new new into of the job in the town and and here he is you know looking at at retirement in a few years and we're kind of facing similar Financial challenges although back then it was it was pretty tough um
so you know from a fiscal standpoint I think Paul's done an amazing job we have we have a reserve fund that's well funded for and again I want to be clear it's not a budget balancing item just to make sure because I've heard that statement said before
it's it's an emergency fund and it's well funded for the emergencies that um can and and could arise in the in the coming years um you know our bond rating is fantastic so when we go for any of the bonds that have to be issued in the expected ones in the coming years that
the cost of that borrowing is going to be substantially less than it would be for another town in a less Stellar position um and I my experience personal experience with Paul and the couple different committees and the things of that that we've worked together on I can
I feel like I can go and ask them dumb questions about the politics or the town operations or the state operations and he always has time to take has the patience to answer that and educate me and when I told him I was you know kind of preparing you know for the select board roll can I get a half hour in a
calendar I know it's budget season absolutely and he sat there and he gave me the the time that I needed um I'm sure we'll disagree over the coming years um but I know that based on my current working relationship with him we're going to get we'll be able to resolve through those things and and um
I think he's got a few more years left on his contract before we have to address that but I do also think it's it's going to be this board's responsibility to start preparing whether he gets renewed or not that preparing for how that process is going to be to get somebody new because after
20 years it's hard to replace okay and we are out of time thank you all very much it's a wrap so sorry I didn't realize we