1958E2 nonconformity to construct a residential addition which will alter the pre-existing non-conforming structure and any other relief deemed necessary. The project meets a historical setback requirements and the maximum percentage lot coverage but will
not meet the maximum floor area ratio F. This property is located in the residential RC district parcel ID map 20 map 72 block 327 lot 13 and consists of approximately 40
acres. Someone here tonight to speak for the applicant. Hello. Thank you. My name is Mike Men of Matters and General Contracting. I was asked to uh present the project for you this evening for the property owner and architect. As you mentioned the project get your address too, Mike. Oh, my
address is 57 Old Bolton Road in Stowe, Massachusetts. Thank you. Yeah. So, um, as you mentioned, um, in reading the notice, uh, the project is at 70, sorry, that's the wrong wrong
address is at 32, um, is at 32 Bill Ricker Road. Here you see the site um there showing the footprint of the building um from the town's GIS and the zoning map. Um it is located just down
the street here from us uh located near the downtown on Bill Rick Road at the terminus of Summer Street. Going to the next slide. Um the lot history. The current property is occupied by a single family dwelling unit that was constructed in or about
1810 according to the assessor's office. Uh as you had mentioned, it's in the RC general residential zoning district which permits single and two family dwellings. The dwelling has existing non-conforming front and rear setbacks and the property is surrounded by
similar development of single and two family dwellings. Next slide, please. Uh the proposed development um the project proposes a first and second floor addition to the uh easterly or the right
side of the existing dwelling and to convert the existing single family dwelling to a two family dwelling. Um there the the slide states that there is an existing shed that will be removed but it's my understanding that that shed has already been removed um at the rear
of the property. The proposed addition would conform to all aspects of zoning requirements with the exception of the floor area ratio. As mentioned, there will be sufficient parking provided for four parking spaces for the two dwelling units per code.
Uh the relief required uh is a special permit for the increase in F above the maximum allowed um at a proposed 26.9% or 347 square ft above what is permitted in the district. I believe the
plans you have may say 27.9. Um before the meeting we recalculated the F understanding the definition eliminates areas less than 7 ft in ceiling height. So we eliminated those areas and that brought the property
bring it the proposal more into compliance at 26.9 rather than the 27.9 uh on your plan. Um so now we'll go through the plans quickly here. So again here you see the plot plan.
Um you can see uh the house is long and narrow. Um does not have sufficient setbacks to the front right now. I believe to the front entry landing area is approximately 6 ft and the main dwelling is approximately 9 ft from the
set front setback and and then we have the rear setback and the two side setbacks. There you can see in the shaded area the proposed addition which is in line with the existing uh non-conforming historic setback um and
the parking there on the left side of the property. Um a field of parking sufficient for four parking spaces. Next slide. Um so here is just the cover sheet. Um you can see the um the zoning
table and the F in building coverage table and that again is kind of where um the difference of the 27.9 and we recalculate 26.9 F. Next slide please. Here we see 3D renderings uh the
proposed um uh on the top and existing on the bottom. I'll probably be repeating myself through this, but you can see on the existing the little leanto shed there that will be demolished and removed. And then you can see at the top where it looks like a trim piece, but is actually set back
about 6 in or a foot I believe. Um, and to the right is the new addition. And then a new sun room uh to the right there on the first floor. Here is the existing elevations. Um you can see again the lean two to the right which will be demolished. Um and
then from the back you see the lean two on the left side of the elevation and then you can see uh a sun room at the back that will also be removed um as part of the project. And then here again here is the side elevation. Again there's a lean to
existing that will be removed. And then you can see to the right of that the uh uh threeseason porch that will also be removed. Yeah. Right there. Perfect. And then we have the other side of the house where there's no changes proposed. And because the changes are on the other side of the house, you won't really see
any change on this elevation. Here's the existing floor plan. You can see it's a little bit awkward layout. It's very long and linear in parts is very narrow. Um, it is currently a sixbedroom house. Um, I
believe three bathrooms. Um, uh, first floor kitchen in the center and you can see the main entry at the front there. Um, and you'll see on the proposed plans where that front entry will become a vestibule, a common entry for both units going right to the new unit and left to
the existing that you see there. The below is the second floor um where over on the left wing there is a bedroom and a play area and then two bedrooms uh and a bath on the second floor of the existing. Next
slide. So this here um shows the same footprint of the floor plans but then you see the shaded area the extent of where the addition is and you uh the removal of the sun room back there. And going down again here you see the hatched area
to the right is showing the footprint of the addition compared on the second floor. Next slide. Here are the proposed elevations. So now you can see to the right the four windows and then three season porch on the front. Those that is
the addition. Uh the proposal is to resside the entire house. Um well with the with the new addition. Yeah. So the new addition will match the existing sighting uh vinyl sighting in color and material. Um and then going
down um here again you see at the back um you can see the area of work on the left and the sun room first floor there. Um and you can notice that the screen porch on the first floor in the rear has been removed in this elevation. So now we um
continue down again just another elevation on the right side of the house of that sun room and the proposed addition at the top and continuing down here is the other side of the house where again kind of you're not seeing any changes on this side because all the addition is on the opposing
side. So here's a little bit more detail going into where the main entry is as far as where the um demising wall will be between the two units. the new demising wall and the new unit there um to the right and the shaded area is the
existing dwelling and where that will be um the line of the two units there you'll see at the bottom is where the existing front entry is and we become uh whoops go back sorry um that becomes a vestibule so you go to the right you go
into the new unit two you go to the left you're in the existing and then we have a a bedroom on the first floor, the sun room, kitchen, living room, and dining, and a full bathroom there. And then going to the second floor, you can see again um the shaded
area. Um there on the left is the existing dwelling. Um and then to the right is where the new two family will be. And you can see the demising wall that will create that separation. And we have two bedrooms with one full bath up
there which will be shared by both bedrooms. Has one entry from the primary bedroom there and one entry from the hallway for the other bedroom. And going down, I believe that might be pretty much the conclusion. Um, so again, we're seeking a special permit
and the criteria finding for the special permit would be that the project would not be more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing condition. And in our professional opinion, we feel this would not be more detrimental and that the addition is relatively small when compared to the
size of the existing dwelling. The proposed arch architecture of the addition would be consistent with the existing dwelling. The proposed is matching in scale with the surrounding neighborhood. The project would provide sufficient parking for the two family dwelling and the proposed project would
be have sufficient open space and private recreation area for the occupants. That concludes our presentation. myself are here uh for any questions along with the architect and the property owner. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions from the board?
Uh how was the septic plan for? I'm sorry. Septic um it's sewer is on right on Yeah, I think it's on town. It's it's serviced by the town. Yeah. And there is
no it's it's existing sixbedroom with a change it's threebedroom and threebedroom so actually the number of bedrooms doesn't change anymore remains the same. Yes correct question. Yeah. Okay. So they can use the existing sewer system. Yep. Any further questions at this time? I'd
like to hear all the letters. Yeah, I can read them in right now. I just was noticing the new drive, the the new parking for area. Is that it? Is that Are you making a new cut in the curb for that parking
area for the new addition? Yes. Okay. This is from Sheila Joyce, project engineer, regarding 32 Bill Rick Road. This office has reviewed the project applications, plans, and documents submitted to the DPW on April 18th, 2025 for the following public hearing. 32
Bill Ricker Road requesting a special permit under the zoning bylaw. I'm not going to read that whole thing. As a result of this review, this office has the following comments. No increase to the town sewer infrastructure shall be more than 500 gallons per day per 310
CMR 1500. septic systems, title five and onebedroom generates 110 gallons per day of wastewater flow. Confirm the number of bedrooms in the proposed addition that the sewer impact P is $15 per additional gallon of sewer flow and
payment must be made prior to the certificate of occupancy if approved. I do not believe that would apply to you my jurisdiction, but I think that's fine. A road opening permit will required for work within the rightway. Road opening rules and regulations will be applied. The proposed plot plan
indicates a new curb cut through the existing brick sidewalk for the proposed driveway. Contact the DPW engineering division for all necessary permits. Confirmation of line of sight to be conducted by the engineering staff and the Chumsson police prior to issuing
permit. Three, erosion control devices must retain sediment on site. These must be installed prior to any work or demolition. Four, consideration should be made to install the roof drain drywalls to keep the storm water runoff within the property. This is not a
requirement for approval. That is the engineering department. I have another letter from conservation with no concerns or 32 bill Ricker Road. And I have a letter from the board of health with no concerns for
32 bill Ricker Road. And that is the extent of my letters. Any other questions, Shirley, at this time? No, I'm all set. You got it all. I'm going to open this up to the public for comments. Anyone has questions about this project, now is the time to bring
them up. Seeing none, I think we'd entertain a motion to close the public hearing. I'll make a motion to close the public hearing for 32. Second by Glenn. All in favor? I I I think the one and a half percent is
not going to change things in any uh any direction. I don't know if anyone else has concerns. 1.9 I believe. Was it 1.9? That sounds like a motion, Charlie. That sounds like sound like a motion, Charlie. I'd like to make a motion to approve the special permit for 32 Bara
Road um with consideration of all the letters being written into read into our meeting. A second. Second. All in favor? I unanimous. Good luck with it. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful evening. I'll be in touch with the paperwork.
I lost [Applause] my Now she comes smiling too. I know. This is scary. This is scary. She can say hi. We opened Crosby Village already. No, we did not. We're opening
tonight. So, this is a new public hearing for Cro Crosby Village LLC requesting a comprehensive permit pursuant to Mass General Laws Chapter 40B for property located at 39 North Road and three Crosby Lane. How you doing? The project consists of an
existing two family dwelling in the construction of a new 14 unit two-story apartment building. This property is located in the residential RB district parcel ID map 73 block 295 lot 21 and consists of
approximately.92 acres. Thank you. Before we get too far down the road, how you doing? Good. Sorry. I'm just giving you a copy of the presentation in case we ran into technical difficulties. So, I'm going to uh I think
turn the meeting over at this point to Caroline as our attorney. And uh maybe she can explain the the route the town has decided to go with. Would you like me to read it in? Um I think we should open the public hearing first, Mr. Chair, if we've have we just read all of
that. Okay, great. Yeah, I think we're open at this point. I just wanted to make sure. Read it. you. Um, so good evening members of the board. Um, for the record, my name is Carolyn Murray from KP Law. We obviously serve as town council to the town. And um you have before you this evening an application
for a comprehensive permit, but you should also have in your packets um uh a memo from the community development director explaining why the town feels
it has achieved a safe harbor. And for by way of a little bit of background, as you you may know, um one of the so-called safe harbors applicable to um a comprehensive permit application is when the town has achieved 10% of its
total year-round housing stock is dedicated indeed restricted as being affordable. according to this this there's an inventory that's maintained by the state agency called the executive office of housing and livable communities the
inventory is called the subsidized housing inventory and as of March 26 which I believe is the most recent version that the town has obtained from the state um the town was at 9.94% so not quite at 10%.
doing the math. However, for that, um the town only needed nine more units to be added um to the SHI in order to achieve that 10% threshold. And as you would certainly know, more more so than I would, um
you've approved the Marose Avenue um comprehensive permit application. So you picked up five units um and that um application was um submitted to EOHLC so
that it would be added to the town's SHI. Um you've also approved or the town has approved some units, six local action units they're called. Um it's under uh it's for 255 Princeton Street.
local action units don't require a comprehensive permit such as what is before you this evening. Um but it would mean that if we had another zoning mechanism by which we approved these local action units, they could also be
eligible for inclusion on the SHI. So that's what happened with the 255 Princeton Street. That was six additional local action units. the building permits for um the structures that will contain those units were all
issued on February 8th of this year. So, what becomes key to your analysis is where was the town's SHI as of the date that this new application came in on April 17th. And between the
five units at Marose Avenue and the six units uh for 255 Princeton Street, it's the town's position that we have met or actually exceeded 10% of our units for purposes of achieving a safe harbor. So
what does it actually mean to be in safe harbor? Safe harbor just literally means that the town could, if it chose, it could decide not to entertain another comprehensive permit application. It doesn't mean you cannot. It simply means
if this board decides that you want to invoke safe harbor, you then have two options from that point, which is you can either deny this comprehensive permit application that's before you this evening as being what is called consistent with local
needs, meaning we have met our 10% threshold. You could also proceed to hear this application on its merits all the way through to fruition, however long that takes to evaluate the various impacts and um consider the
waiverss and come to a final decision at some point. Your final decision might be to deny the application. It might be to approve the application. It might be to approve the application with conditions.
What is important or different here is that by asserting safe harbor, whatever decision this board makes with respect to this application, the applicant would not have a right to appeal any decision you
make on the comprehensive permit. So if you ultimately decide tonight to invoke safe harbor and then you vote to deny um the comprehensive permit on the basis of the fact that we have met our 10% the applicant cannot appeal that. Similarly
if you approve it or approve it with conditions um if the applicant were to uh perhaps disagree or find one of the conditions to be ownorous the applicant has no right to appeal. So, there's really two things that uh the board needs to at
least consider initially here tonight. And the first one is whether or not you accept the analysis that's been provided um and wish to invoke safe harbor. Once you vote on that and and I will
assume for the purposes of of this discussion that you do decide to invoke safe harbor. Um that decision has to be made within 15 days of opening the public hearing. So you don't have to make that decision tonight, but you'd have to schedule another special meeting
in time for the 15-day notice uh to be met within within that 15-day period. Should you decide to invoke safe harbor, we would have to send notice to the executive office of housing and livable communities. We'd also have to provide
notice to the applicant and the executive office of housing and livable communities evaluates our information and has 30 days to decide, do they agree with us? Do they think we have in fact met the 10%.
EOHLC will issue a decision on that and if they were to decide that they disagree that we have met the 10 10% threshold the town would have the opportunity to decide do we want to
appeal that decision. Likewise, if EOHLC agrees with the town that we have met that safe harbor, the applicant has a right to challenge that decision and then everything takes on a life of its own separate from the zoning board. Um
it it becomes an entire appeal process through the housing appeals committee and we eventually go through a hearing and eventually get a decision from the housing appeals committee as to whether or not we have in fact met safe
harbor. If EOHL or sorry, if the housing appeals committee ultimately disagrees that we met that safe harbor, then this application comes right back to this board for consideration of it on its merits and we
see it through to a final decision. If it comes back, it it is a 40B now either way. Yes. But they'll have a right to appeal if we were to deny because we don't we can invoke safe harbor as opposed to If if HLC disagrees with us that we have not met safe harbor and we
if you ultimately denied it, you're right. The applicant does have a right to appeal that decision and it's a whole separate appeal. Right. So that um I was asked to just kind of give you the lay of the land this evening on that. Um and because of the
tight time frame, that's a decision that obviously the board would have to make um relatively soon so that if you were to invoke safe harbor um we can provide the the necessary notices. Thank
you. So it's a little uh a little sticky, but I think that the numbers do not lie. I think we've achieved the 10%. So the question then I mean that's my opinion. I can do the math. Yeah, I totally understand that. But I'd like to ask Jose how many houses we have coming
in the pipeline that we may need some more of the 10%. Jose, do you know how many houses are being going to be built this year? No, not from the top of my head. I don't know. Okay, if I may, Mr. Chair,
excuse me. Um, you might have more market rate houses that are added this year, next year, whatever it may be, obviously. Um, but the the total housing count is
based on a 10-year federal census. So, the last one was in 2020. So, your numbers won't be updated again. I would say 2030, but last time it there was a little bit of lag between when the census concluded and when the numbers
were updated. But if you have achieved a safe harbor, you would at least enjoy it until the next. Correct. Okay. I like that. Yeah. And there are some other homes that have already been approved in the 40b pipeline that have not had
building permits pulled and those would also apply to our numbers. Okay. But until their building permit is pulled, they won't they won't have any effects. Well, I don't I don't want to speak out of term, but it seems like the safe harbor is the way to go.
But have an opinion? I I don't see a downside to not invoking safe harbor or to to invoking I should say. There's no downside to invoking it. You have any thoughts? Our housing expert? I agree with my two colleagues. Seems to be the
logical thing to do. Danny, do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I'm in agreement. So, I guess uh we would have a motion to invoke safe harbor and then our next decision will be how do we hear this application if the applicant wishes to
proceed at this time? So, I guess I'll just make the motion to move motion one here according to Yeah, we can ask uh Caroline for a little I would think that makes sense. I think the first motion is whether or not you want to invoke safe harbor. Okay. And
then you can discuss whether or not you want to I'm just looking at the text up there to see if it goes further. Um whether or not you want to deny or consider the application on its merits. So motion one would be in order right now. Okay. Do do I need to
read this in in its entirety? Yes, please. So I I'll make a motion to move that the board has determined that the town of Chumsford has achieved uh one of the statutory minium set forth under
GL40B 20 through23 and 760 CMR 56.03 03 sub3 because the town's subsidized housing inventory or or SHI had as maintained by the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities
comprises more than 10% of the town's total housing units as of the date that the application for the comprehensive permit was received from Crosby Village LLC for the property located at 39 North Road and three Crosby lane. Further, the
board authorizes the chair to finalize, execute, and send written notice to the applicant with a copy to EOHLC to invoke the 10% statutory minima with within 15 days of the opening of the May 8th, 2025
public hearing on the application. Do we have a second? A second. Second by Charlie. All in favor? It's unanimous. Tom will invoke safe harbor. Uh Mr. Dean, that's probably uh
the best news for you, but would you have any idea how you would like to proceed at this time? Well, I I think how we proceed is really up to you. because based on what town council has indicated you the fact that
you've invoked safe harbor gives you the opportunity to deny the project right now correct the other option as I understand is that you could agree to move forward with the project and review
it and you know eventually come to a decision to deny approve or approve with conditions. However, if we agree to that, we then give up our right to appeal that decision down the road.
So again, I need to hear from you whether you're invoking I mean whether you're denying us today or despite invoking safe harbor, you want to move forward with this project.
The concerns personally I feel with it is uh the change of use is is really tough and it's a variance. Uh this is been a very difficult board to grant a variance. It just seems to be a lot of uh nobody wants to grant a variance. So
that that would be what I would see as your largest stumbling block completing the project uh is granting a variance. Well, I mean a 40B approval is not technically a variance. I think the change of use would be, am I right about that? Is that it would be in the form of
a waiver under a 40? We could grant a waiver if it's a 40 if we still consider it a 40B. Okay. I didn't understand that. Um, so yeah, it it I guess is is I mean I Yes. Go on. I have a question of town council. If the applicant decides to
submit it not as a 40B, would it then go to the planning board, not to us? I I believe that's correct. But I'm not sure your your zoning would allow this process. Well, because one of the waiverss that you're asking for is that multif family use, if I've read
your waivers correctly, is not a use allowed in this particular zoning district. So with the 40B, he gets 40B allows you to override. With 40B, he would not get the waiver. It would be a variance. Then that would be the right what he specifically discussed. So he's
getting around that use for a var with the need for a variance by the 40b for a waiver. It it's a large number on on.92 acres. Uh the 16 units is is a big number. Is it 16 or 14? There's 14 plus
two existing. Is that correct? 16. So 16 total under with less than acre. Would it be rental? Yes. But they could totally revise it and go back to the planning board with a different, you know, scope of project. I
don't I don't think they could. They can't make a single family home in that zone. It has to be one single family. That's it. The only avenue for this is the waiver and not a variance because of their zone. I mean, they want to try for a a zoning
a variance, which I don't do a variance. Yeah. We don't do like you even said variances are very challenging like we had talked about Morose Avenue timing is everything and it seems the project has
arrived too late. I I don't disagree. would would you like to uh and and I'm I'm asking your input because I I feel like uh it's you you've spent time and money and effort to put this together and and I just want to try to achieve the the best we can for you. Would you
like to continue this because I don't think we're under time restraints now that we've declared. Is that correct? Well, 15 days to write our safe harbor. He's not under that 15. Right. We've we've got 15 days to notify that we've invoked safe harbor and you've already
voted that so that's fine. You don't necessarily have to make the decision tonight as to whether or not you want to approve or deny it. If you wanted a little time to think about that, you could. Well, that my my thought would be that you could look at what you have
here and what to do with it at this point. I mean, it it seems uh certainly quick for me to understand how this was going to work. So, I'm assuming that might be the same for you and your your applicant and your uh your principal. Well, with all due respect, you as I'm
sure you would, you know, expect we you know, we will be appealing the town's determination of safe harbor. Um, however, I'm concerned that if we move forward with this hearing, I am then my
hands are then tied in the appellet process that I can't appeal to hack, you know, in six months when you, you know, irregardless of whether the safe harbor is
upheld and and and let's say it is, the board still has the ability to move forward with the project and can deny or approve, but we do so with no ability to appeal to hack as your and as you can
imagine I am not going to put my client in that position. So if and again town council probably has your answer for this but if we were to continue right now you know given the board time to
send out the safe harbor I'm not in any way ra waving my rights to move forward with the project with an appeal ability if you know I I'm not exactly sure what you mean about moving forward with a project with
an appeal ability. They they voted to issue safe harbor. Correct. Correct. They have they still need to vote to either deny or continue with the hearing on this application. Right. If they vote to continue Mhm. right which I'm not asking you know
you to make you make I think everyone needs to understand how this works. If if they make that decision to uh to move forward now, we're going to be caught up in appealing and figuring out whether
the town in fact makes met safe harbor. And let's say they do. Am I still I'm still in a position where the hearing is open and I'm forced to go forward without an appeal ability?
Does that Well, I I want to make sure that now understand what you know I want to make sure that we are all following the same steps because I heard you say earlier that you will appeal the board's decision to invoke safe harbor which is absolutely your
right to do. Yeah. The moment that happens, this process is staged. Even if the board votes tonight to continue to hear your application through to fruition, this process will be stayed while we go through that interlocatory
appeal of the housing appeals committee. Okay? And then once that determination is made one way or the other, this board I mean you know whether it's upheld or right or turned um this board will still then have to make a a vote at the next
meeting whether to deny or allow us to go forward if they don't do so tonight. Right. Right. If they don't do so tonight. Okay. Right. And let's assume for the sake of argument that you do pursue that interlocatory appeal. And let's assume
the housing appeals committee agrees with the town that we've met safe harbor. Right? Even if this board voted to consider the application to its normal conclusion, if the safe harbor is upheld, you still don't have a right to
appeal at the end of that. Understood. But conversely, if the housing appeals committee says, "Sorry, Chelmsford, you're only at 9.98%, whatever it is, um, and it comes
back to this board." They see it through to a final decision, you're not happy with whatever that final decision is, I have the right to You have the right to appeal that then. Okay. Well, based on that, Mr. Chairman, I I leave it to this board to decide whether to deny us
tonight or continue us. I have a question. So, if we were to continue this tonight and EO um HLC were to uphold safe harbor, would they at that point and we go through the actual
interlock portion of it and we end up coming back here, would they have the ability to withdraw without prejudice? I don't see any reason why they couldn't. Yes. Does the applicant get a copy of all the letters we received? Yes, I
believe that is the case. Yes, sir. We've received everything. what what you were uh forwarded they they also received and I really felt that was important because there seemed to be quite a list of things to investigate
really my my thoughts for allowing him to regroup if necessary and decide how he wants to approach this I didn't I mean we can we can open the hearing and with decision decide whether to deny it at at this point. Um I think if we're denying it based on safe harbor, there
really isn't a lot of need for uh evidence to be introduced. So we can we can make that decision. And if we want to hear it, you have to understand that the hurdles we'd face to do that are are significant. I don't think it's really
in our best interest to hear it at this point. There were a lot of things to be evaluated on through the letters. uh best to allow them to investigate it because they'll be brought up eventually if we had to. Who to investigate what
the opposite? Oh, he's going to investigate his options, right? Basically, and he may be well aware of I'm not assuming, but I certainly think I would want to understand as best I can that the position they find themselves in. But if we deny it, call safe harbor and we deny it, right? without even
looking at the merits of his plan, we're going to deny on Safe Harbor and they uphold it, that's it. He's done. We're done. But if we say, "Okay, we've called Safe Harbor, but we're going to evaluate your petition
anyway and see what the merits of it are." And then if we choose to modify, deny, approve based on merits, right? At least we give the applicant feedback, input, whatever. And then if we still
deny it based on merits, he knows or recommendations, considerations, continue it with that input, he can go back to his client, drawing board, make adjustments, whatever the case might be, continue
this while it's simultaneously going through the appeal process. It's still open. I don't think they can. Well, right. I want to be clear about that. I don't think I can. If Oh, sorry. If an interlocatory appeal is made and it sounds like the applicant is
committed to that. Okay. Even if you voted tonight that yes, you're willing to continue with the hearing. Oh, okay. This hearing stops. Okay. The clock just stops on this. And off to the Housing Appeals Committee we go and we have our hearing there. we
wait for a decision and then depending upon that decision it may or may not come back to this board. Um so the only decision to deny at this point before evidence is introduced is the safe harbor. I mean, that would be the reason we denied it as opposed to any other
factors that come into play with this that we haven't examined. If we chose to not deny on safe harbor, we would not hear evidence tonight on the on his petition because that he's going to appeal safe harbor anyway. Well, it it's
really up to the board what you want to do in that situation. I mean, could you open the public hearing and get an overview? Yes, you certainly could. Okay. Um, you know, from a practical standpoint, if we know, you know, you've just invoked safe harbor, we know they're
going to appeal. With all due respect, we want to go through that that presentation. No, that makes sense. But I I also do we want to deny it purely on safe harbor if it's
upheld and not give them an opportunity to if say we have safe harbor, right? But we didn't hear his petition on merit and give them an opportunity. That's how I feel it's to work with the town if it's and I'm not again I'm not saying that's even a
viable option like just speaking devil's advocate here right say we evaluate on merit like after the appeal yes we have safe harbor okay he wants to come and still present his but if we're say we're going to deny you on safe harbor denied not even going to hear it he doesn't
even have a chance to come back and and apply a comprehensive permit if appeals upheld correct correct Now, could he refile? Could he refile? He could refile. Okay. So, he could he could Well, if it's going to be a whole new application, it's it's at his
discretion, but but there have to be something materially different in that application. Correct. It's not quite the repetitive petition that I think you're thinking of, but also um I I would think that the applicant would come back with either a
slightly modified proposal or what might be materially different is whether or not you know safe harbor has been upheld or not upheld. Um but I also in my experience these interlocatory
appeals it will take two years to go through the process and get a decision back. So I I don't have any real concern about a a repetitive petition concern. Okay. No, that makes sense. Two years anyway. Right. And I you know that's under 40A versus 40B. So I think the
rules under 40B would apply as opposed to thinking of it as a repetitive petition. Okay. Yes. Okay. If we were to open it to the public comment, um would it be doing a service or
disservice to those who might want to speak since it seems that there's a lot of negativity uh associated with the project from the residents. Um, in one way it helps the project team
identify objections and to deal with those objections at a later time or would the um residents prefer not to speak? Why give them show them what they got as
opposed to throwing all these objections out there and letting them hear it and come back and complain and address it? Danny, the the only problem I have with that is it gives it doesn't give the applicant the opportunity to actually
present the project and it's just based off of hearsay hearsay no information that's actually been presented here. I don't think that's a that's a good option um just because of that. And if I may, if you're going to deny based on
invoking the safe harbor, keep it clean and just deny on that basis as opposed to this hybrid of well, we'll we'll hear a little bit of information from the applicant or from the public and then we deny it. Then it
gets a little murky. Personally, my preference would just probably be continue this so that they can do their interlocatory appeal and then at that point if they want to come back and withdraw, they have the opportunity to withdraw if they need to.
Well, in my opinion, I think denying on Safe Harbor because they're going to appeal. We know they're going to appeal and if it's a two-year process, they can reapply, no issues, and it's not going to I mean, the reapplication process I'm assuming they're probably going to reapply. We'll have that opportunity. I
mean, residents may change. We might change. I mean, the the whole environment could change in two years. So, I mean, who knows what'll be what will be happening in two years from now. So I in my my opinion I think maybe just invoking the safe harbor denial keeping
it clean like town council said and then moving we know they're going to appeal moving letting that process unfold and then letting it go back bring that back if that's how they chose to do it. I mean that's kind of where I see is that a majority or supermajority?
Majority to add anything at this time. No sir, I think it it sounds like everyone's feeling the best interest is to deny based on safe harbor. Do that tonight and you wouldn't like 30 days
to consider your position. We can continue without any action and then it really I think would be potentially to your advantage. But that that's my uh reasoning and asking. I'm not uh thinking that we gain any
advantage by a continuence. So, I'm just trying to be as fair as we can be. I don't see how the how if I could ask what advantage do you see because the safe harbor is not going to change. His appeal is not going to change. He's not
going to change his plans, which well I think there's a lot of information that he may or may not have that would uh may or may not help him at all. He may be in the same exact position 30 days from now. I I I would hate to say, okay, we did now all a sudden you looked and you
know, article 7 is going to say this. I I just don't know. I don't have that knowledge. So I'm just offering the opportunity I think without peril to continue 30 days. you, you know, but I just certainly
certainly Mr. Mr Chairman, if the board is inclined to deny based on the safe harbor, I mean, we're going to end up in interlocatory appeal for a couple years and if it turns out that the, you know, the board's basis for denial is is is
not upheld, we're back here anyway. Correct. So I you know again I I appreciate your cander and you know your options here but I I think at this point we we you know the board should make a decision on
their terms and we'll react and even if it's upheld my understanding is you could reapply. Right. Correct. So well but well let me be clear. You might be in the same situation. Let me let me be clear and council correct me if I'm
wrong, but if you if you deny me today, not only do we have to, you know, file an appeal on the um safe harbor determination, we would file an appeal on your denial with hack
and then be because that way hack would wait and see housing. Hack would wait. Housing appeals committ would wait and see. if if the safe harbor was verified or not. If it's not, hack will have a very
simple case. They'll say town of Chsford, you denied them incorrectly and they're going to send us back to you. Right? So from my perspective, you know, that in a way, right, if everything's hinging on this thing, that in a way is cleaner for me
because, you know, I'm not going to be I may not be able to reapply in two years because you I'm as as was stated, a bunch of units are going to come online. So you're going to be over 10% in two years. There's no
question in my mind based on. I wouldn't have the ability to file. I mean, I could file, but you would have to review it under the condition that, well, Doug, if we deny you, you can't go to hack. This way, you know, you have hack will
tell me I can come back. They'll send me back to you with the petition that's before you. Okay. And I think that's cleaner. I do, honestly. Okay. Okay. And if if I could add to that, even if additional units come online between now
and when that interlocatory appeal is decided by hack where preempt them, the fact that we're taking everything as it existed as of April 17th. So if the housing appeals committee says we disagree, you didn't meet safe harbor,
even if we were then to say, oh, but it's now, you know, April of 2027, it doesn't matter. It all goes dates back to the date of their application, which is what I meant about we couldn't like reapply a new. I mean,
we could, but it No, no. I I thought reapply if if the housing appeals committee or HLC agrees with us about the safe harbor, right? But of course, but if other units have come online, we might be right back where we are again considering safe harbor. So, I perhaps
the the the road you're traveling down is the cleanest for everyone. Yeah. Good. Good. Do we need to close? Okay. Um, yeah, I think we Do you want to take a motion to deny based on and I think it's motion
two? Well, it's towards the end of motion two. Uh, it starts with the line that says uh it is further moved that the board elect Oh, sorry. No, that's electing to proceed with it. So, right under motion
one elect. Oh, yeah. If DBA elects to deny. So it would be appropriate for the board to make a motion to deny based on having met the safe harbor. Okay. So we'll make a motion to deny the application based on town having met the
10% safe harbor. Um I think I think you're going to read the whole thing. Is that good? Well, this says here then a written I don't have to read that part, right? No, you do not. Just saying that we we have we have we are electing I make a motion that we are electing to deny this application based on the town
having met the 10% safe and if I could just offer a friendly amendment and therefore the t your decision is consistent with local needs. Therefore our decision is consistent with local needs. Second. Second by Danny. All in favor? I. It's unanimous.
Well, thank you for your time. do thank you for your time and uh we'll see you again. I'm sure thank you. That is beyond my pay scale. Mr. Chair, I will be in touch in the
next couple of days. I think this is someone that like Do you have some minutes uh on your agenda still? We going to approve minutes or we going to go I read the minutes. We want to do
that. It's the minutes for pull him up. He was here. He was the one who was order and do discussion items. I was just when I first joined wasn't a long I actually know the attorney
he he used to paid work up at Salsbury the assistant planner Linds update us on the ADU is that Jose's thing to update the ADU I don't think so it wasn't Jose's I put that I'm sorry we're still continuing if
you guys wouldn't mind taking that to the hallway. Jose, he's got plenty of work. I He represents a lot of developers. Thank you. I didn't want to use my drill ser. Trying to be nice. Girl Scout
voice. Drill sergeant. Oh, I thought it was a Girl Scout. Go ahead. Drill boys. I know you're involved with the Girl Scouts. That's what I thought was how you control the gap. Heard that. I was going to say they probably have heard heard the drill side of course. Yeah, my girls are good. They've heard it once or
twice. Um I to answer Charlie's question about um the updated ADU FAQs. I actually put that on there just for everyone's FYI. Um and also just so the public sees it, it's on this agenda and the planning board are going to be, you know, looking it over to so that way
it's just the public has access to it. But I wanted Do you have any updates to it? I like saying it. It answered put a little more definitive language here and there bylaws. Uh there is a document that uh was put together to advise people on
ADUs which was I don't know if you've seen it building the building office the building department I don't have it on me but I can email you a copy can you email me might actually use that new um so an update on the bylaw so the the information sheet for applying is the
building one of the building inspectors Paulie Amorei put that together and did a really nice job on it I'll forward it to everyone make myself a note um And then as far as our bylaw is concerned, um that is actually being placed on planning board's agenda for next week.
I'll be posting that agenda tomorrow. Um the attorney general's office has asked for an extension to make a decision. Uh they did receive complaints. I'm surprised and so they want more time to look into it and see if the complaints are valid. Um the complaints on ours
particularly on on the bylaw that was approved at town meeting. Oh, okay. Yes. And and that really relates to really two items. One is a curb cut cur and being in front and on hammerhead lots. Oh, okay. Not putting a unit in front of
another unit. Okay. Y I know uh the uh because the state says the sewer is going to be the biggest obstacle for us, but that's only our town. the the rest of the state as uh but I think the state law requirement said that there was some
kind of verbiage readage whether or not the town could restrict curb cut. Yeah. So my understanding so when we we just recently passed in um air we we didn't restrict that. Um and I know within the
actual requirements of the draft regulations that they have they they specify what you can restrict. So that so restricting a curb cut. We we specified that, right? That's that's the
thing. Yeah. The state um regulation says you you can only restrict certain things and I don't believe sight sort of stuff and I don't believe that's allowed as a as a restriction. But I don't I don't you can't restrict them all. You could, but if there is line of sight or
uh short-term rental, there's certain things that you can restrict it by. They didn't list curb cuts as one of the things you could restrict. Exactly. So, there's a little ambiguity. Yeah. Because it's a gray area. It's like they don't say you can't, but they don't say you do.
Exactly. Yeah. So, the verdict's not out there. Thus far, it seemed to be the fear of the general resident population was that uh these are going to be popping up everywhere and we're going to be, you know, Summerville or we're going
to be Cambridge and so far nothing. Nothing. I promise you. And I think the sewer is one of the things that the town will have working in its favor. It's Look, look at me. I'm almost done with my house. So, I could sell it and move on.
Or I could make it a two family, correct more rent than I would to sell it and and it would be a rather profitable option for me. Why wouldn't I do that? Technically, not a two. You haven't done it, so it must be stress. It's not It's not a two family. It's an ADU. It's a
It's an incomeroucing twounit building with an ADU attached. But you haven't done it yet. Well, I will say Glenn to to um add on to what you were saying that you haven't seen any pop up yet. We have had so many inquiries. I have received
phone calls. Evan has received phone calls. The building department has received so many inquiries. They have received people coming in with their asking for plot plans if we have one on file. So, people are doing their homework right now. Oh, yeah. And people are putting together their plot plans right now, which takes time, takes
months to get a surveyor. So there's probably at least a dozen in the pipeline. It's just that their architectural plans, their plot plan, those things aren't finalized yet. A crisis. A dozen is not a crisis. Probably not because there's still restrictions based on setbacks. It's
done. So it's going to happen. That's that was where I was going to go. You got to have the money up front. Yeah. Several people have come in cost realize what the restrictions are in terms of setbacks within our zoning. Then they think they realize, "Oh, I
don't have as much wiggle room in my backyard as I thought I did because 80% of RB is non-conforming in lot size." So that restricts people as to where they can put an an additional 900 ft if they're allowed. RBS are non-conforming. That that's that's the uh statistic we
had years ago. Yeah, that's a surprise to hear that. Well, according to what we saw tonight, there's 14,000 and some units. 12 is like behind them. Correct. a drop in the bucket. But if if it didn't cost 300,000 or 500,000 to build, there's many things
probably more. There's many things against it, but the town was just fearful that this is going to pop up everywhere, right? Change the town totally. People still have their own personal restrictions, what they want to do versus what they can do and their own
personal space as well. They don't want space. So, um, it does change everything. You know, of course, you know, 25 years ago, if you said that builders were going to start buying single family homes and rip them down and put up mansions, people would have said, "No, you put up seven units on a
halfacre." The avenues aren't just limited to that, though. The avenue is you buy a single family house and just cut it in half. Pay the fee for the additional bedroom kind of. Yeah. Oh, they it works. That was my qu where I thought he was going with the special permit. I thought
it was going to be an ADU, but it was a turning it into a two family because he's in the RC district. Because he's in the RC district, right? RC. Although they also asked about the ADU option. Yeah. And we still haven't heard because he's already a legal two family. Yeah, he is. The house has two is a two family
now. No, I don't think it is single family. It's a single family. Oh, that's a I thought I always thought that was a two purple house we're talking about right now. No, it's the blue house. Oh, the deep blue one on the right on 495. Yeah, it's right across right across Summer Street. Yeah. A little further
down from the church. And we Summer Street. Summer Street. It's literally like at the tea. The corner of Wilson Street. It's three houses over from the corner of Wilson Street and directly across Summer Street. You can't miss it. It's this freaking long. Yeah, that was that threw me off. The the long-term
solution to the wastewater septic. Yeah. Yeah, that that that is I hear that we're doing some study associated with cost to tie in to the MW. If that goes to town meeting, that's going to be a long and arduous
discussion because additionally to that extra capacity, your water rates are going to go through the stratosphere. Oh yeah. And that uh project to get to the MWR is Yeah. You got to go to Burlington. Latest I heard you got to go to Burlington to do it. Well, it's got a B
in front of it with today's construction rates. Got their own issues with the water quality at this point. Well, the water is separate from the sewer. That's why I have a reverse o but if you do if you get the sewer from the MWR, you have to take your water from them, too. Oh, you're kidding. Yeah, it's a package
deal. I did not know that. Of course. Oh, I didn't know that either. Because that's how they pay for the sewers through the water. Through the water fee. I didn't understand that. So, they three water districts would have to uninccorporated. Goodbye water districts. And interesting
people will be paying through the nose for their water. How do we And who will be paying for it for the most part? Residents. Again, digging a well and everyone's going to go back to getting on well. But how do we currently deal with our our sewage right now? You charge by well. You
charge by water usage. Your sewer bills. No, but like do we have a wastewater treatment facility? It goes to go to duck. Oh, it goes to Oh, that's why Yeah, we don't have one at There's goes to one right up right at low. As a matter of fact, they took my Girl Scout troop there to no to the the water
treatment plant over there. Depends on the time. Well, this is the water. It always depends on the time of the time of the year. Like 400,000 gallons, but once you're inside, it always Oh, yeah. Well, they're planning on a new system and it's it's going to be a shock
to the to the town for the water or the water in center because they're going to they're planning on a very sophisticated filter system. When that comes to fruition, I don't know. Yeah, we actually have for the PAS. Yeah. So, we actually have that in air. We we've had it there for about they've had it for
about five years now. You're moving PAS. Yeah. They've had it for about five years. is cutting edge and the in the system now, but they have an issue cuz they're because the pe the system is is smaller the chamber. It takes much longer for water to get to the flow. So
we're they just permitted a clear well tank to add additional storage after the PAS system. Oh, interesting. So they'll be able to pump into it continuously and build up and build up reservoir. And that would be a tank, right? Because you can't put it back in the ground
because the P because then at that point it just recontaminated. Holy cow. Okay. Um on that note, how about the minutes? We want to get those out of the way. 4325. Could I approve the meeting minutes from uh April 3rd? I make a
motion. Make a motion to approve meeting minutes from April 3rd. Second. All in favor, Jamie. Okay. And yep, you were all here. You can all vote. Thank you. And make a motion to adjurnn. And uh next meeting is probably going to be at the police station. May I just Yeah,
maybe I'll just comment. The next meeting is at the police station auditorium. Um so that's been that I put that on this agenda and I'm getting the word out to accommodate uh Ledge Road neighborhood because that's on that's the major item on our next agenda. Prior
to that, we have two special permits for 20% reduction. Yeah, I don't know where to place residential projects. So we'll hear those two res I've only lived here a couple years. I don't know it that well yet. North. It's at the It's at the roundabout. The third number three roundabout. Oh, okay. Okay. Middle school. It's on the side of
McCarthy. Right. Right by McCarthy. Okay. Drum Hill Rotary. Rotary. Drum Hill. Number four. Um, next door to McCarthy. It's right It's right It's right by my house. I actually did know. Yes. It's the death circle. Yeah, it's actually right by my house. So, we have a motion to adjurnn. Any discussion?
Yes. Motion to favor? Yes. I We are adjourned.