Public input. Public input shall be limited to statements from the public relating to any issues with the jurisdiction of the Chelmsic Zoning Board of Appeals that are not currently the subject of a pending public hearing before the zoning board of appeals. Public comment on any pending public hearing shall only be heard such during
such public hearings that may be limited to three minutes time. Would anyone like to speak uh of an issue that is not on the agenda this evening? Seeing none, we have a new public hearing, 6 Bair
Drive. The owner is John Verscelli. He's requesting a special permit under section 1959B conformity for up to a 20% reduction in the side setback from 25 ft to 20 ft to construct a detached 24x 24 garage and
any other relief deemed necessary. This property is located in the residential RB district. Is there someone here tonight to speak? If I get your name and address, sir. Uh, my name is John Percelli, Six Bellow Drive. So, I'm the owner of the house.
Thank you. And maybe give us an idea of what you have planned, John. Yeah. Um, I just retired, so I'd like to build a a have a garage built um at 24x 24. Um, the house across the street from
me pretty much has the same setup I would like um with the 3-foot overlap, but their garage is a little bit closer to the house. And when I used to take care of the driveway for the couple during the winter time, um I noticed
that um a lot of snow would accumulate in that little um little alve cove. Yeah. And that's where you know you your your um you would take your um your garbage cans through and stuff like that. Stuck in there. Yeah. So I kind of want to avoid that.
Um, so yeah, on on here it says 25 ft to 20 feet, but it actually according to the drawing it's 22.2 ft if that makes a difference. Um, but yeah, that's that's
pretty much pretty much it. Sounds pretty straightforward. Hopefully it is. Does anyone have any questions at this time? No, no. Uh, I'm just going to go through the
letters and read those publicly. Mr. Velli, this notice informed me the proposed addition lacks a sideyard requirement of 25 ft. You can apply for a 20% reduction special permit from the board of appeals for sideyard relief. Please appeal to the community development within 30 days of the date
of this letter to be before the board of appeals. Thank you. Jose Negron, building commissioner. I have a letter from Anthony Rapuchi, town engineer 46 Bair Drive. Dear members, this office has reviewed the project application
plans documents submitted to the DPW on July 2nd, 2025 for the following public hearing notice on July 10th, 2025. As a result of this review, the sauces the following comments records
record sewer does not show any conflict with the proposed structure. Erosion control devices must retain the sediment on site. These must be installed prior to any work or demolition. Street should be swept and cleaned from the construction dust. Consideration
should be made to install roof drain drywalls or the equivalent to infiltrate roof runoff. This is not a requirement for approval. I have a letter from fire prevention with no concerns. I have a letter from the board of health
with no concerns. I have a letter from the police with no concerns. And that is the extent of the letters this evening. I'm going to open this up to public comment if anyone would like to speak in favor or opposition to this application.
Now is the time. Seeing none, I'd entertain a motion. I can make a motion to close the public hearing. I have a second by Peter. All in favor? Sure. I I think we can take this up right now.
The uh lot plan was pretty clear. The 8 ft which would get him uh compliant is sensible to me. Apparently, the special permit doesn't seem to cause any other problems. Nope, not a bit.
Uh, I'd like to make a motion to approve the special permit under section 195-9B for our six Belair Drive. Second. Second by Stephen. All in favor? I. It's unanimous.
Good luck with it. Thank you. Take care. Missed quick and fast. Yeah, that was good. Jamie responded. She's about 10 minutes. So, Commissioner Yeah.
I think uh we're going to bounce ahead and skip over uh Mission Road, 29 Mission Road, and here 167 North Road. The owner is Sar France Ahmad is requesting a special permit under
section 1955 use regulations A4 in accordance with section 19513 conversion of a dwelling unit to convert a single family dwelling existing prior to 1938 into a two family dwelling and other relief deemed necessary. This
property is located in the residential RB district. someone here to speak uh for Mr. Ahmed. Good evening. If you name address please. Yeah. Good evening. My name is Safra Ahmed. Uh I live at 26 Arbitus A Chamsur.
Um this uh this is 1832 uh home built in 1832. And uh there are two driveways uh on each side, one on the side road and one on the north road. Um there are two
entrances and egresses of this home and there are two stairs. So there was a modification of existing home at some point and uh we were looking to just converted to two family left and right side by side. Um there is no change in
the character of the home. Um no we we don't think we could require any separate driveway additions or new doors existing doors and interested in egresses will satisfy I think most of the requirements
as in the plan uh given to you guys um and most of the changes are in interior we just need to add a kitchen because on the left side there's no kitchen and uh possibly half bath upstairs there's already one bath downstairs and the
right side already has two bath kitchen and stairs going up and then there's a second stair on the left side. Yeah. So it's uh basically there are two doors separating both areas. Of course we need to u strengthen the wall for firewall
fire protection and all those uh requirements um smoke alarms and all that. So this what you are looking at the screen this is front of the home. If you look at the side of the home, um if you maybe street view, you can see there's another driveway. Yeah. In this
road. So that that driveway is existing that actually um entrance common entrance for other side of the home. Okay. Anyone have any questions of the
applicant? Just to uh refresh everyone that that has maybe not familiar with this 19513 conversion of dwelling units. The alteration of a single family dwelling existing at the time of adoption of this chapter in 1938 for occupy by not more
than two families is permitted in accordance with article 3 of this chapter provided that the lot contains not less than 15,000 square ft which I think we have 25,700 right um
the exterior of the design has not changed from the character of a single family dwelling and provided further that at least 600 square ft of living space shall be provided for each resulting dwelling unit. Right. So, existing home. Yeah, existing home is 2900 close to
2,900 ft² the finish area and approximately split in half. Uh not exactly half probably like um one side would be close to 1,400 something and otherwise slightly more you know. Yep. As long as we both get 600.
Yes, definitely more than 600. I think that's something the building inspector will will make sure of when you apply for the per for the plans. Are there any further questions? Um, I have a question. Um, could could he make this an ADU instead, Jose? Would
that would that be easier? Um, good evening, members of the board. uh Charlie uh I believe he could uh provided that he meet the conditions of of the ADA requirements which is you
know uh less than 50% of the of the premises and meet all the other requirements with the building code I want to address so we did look into this matter with the design professional the architect uh there are number of
variances we need if we go that route and lot of changes in the existing structure because uh we have to have 900 square ft number one and meeting the 50% is difficult. We need to move the walls and there will be a lot of money involved in there and
construction changes uh to meet the needs. So we did look into whether the existing left side of the home falls like close to 900. It's way above 900. So that's a problem. Uh okay, that makes sense. you know,
but he's certainly within his rights to apply this zoning. It's still active, of course. So, that that really doesn't create any issue that then this is the best use we can figure out, best use of the property in terms of like minimal cost.
Good enough. I'm all set. Okay. Questions? Any other questions? I'm going to go ahead and read the letters. This is from the building commissioner, Jacquos. This letter serves as denial your proposed conversion of a single family dwelling to a two family dwelling
in the RB district. This conversion requires a special permit from the board of appeals. Please make an application appeal to the community development department within 30 days of this notice. Thank you. Respectfully, Jose Negron, building commissioner.
I also have a letter from the DPW. Thank you. uh with the following results of the review. No increase in the town of Chelmsford's sewer infrastructure shall be more than 500 gallons per day. That would appear to be met. Yes. The applicant should analyze a sewage
flow using a title five proposed conditions to determine the required sewer allocation. This should be submitted to the DPW for approval for existing sewer connections. If there is a change in use or expansion, the applicant should submit the necessary floor plans seating plans to supplement
the sewer allocation calculations. The sewer connection must comply with the town of Chelsea rules and regulations. Permits must be applied for by a licensed contractor. Planet showing proposed sewer connections shall be submitted to the
DPW engineering for approval. Town of Chumps sewer restrictions apply. Erosion control devices must retain the sediment on site. These must be installed prior to any work or demolition. The street should be swept and cleaned from construction dust. Consideration
should be made to install roof drain drywalls or the equivalent to infiltrate roof runoff. This is not a requirement for approval and I don't think any of that applies to you, but it's the letter they sent. So, I'm reading it. These are general guideline. Yes, I understand. And we we're not adding
anything or the exterior of the house. So existing sewer will connect to it. We'll make the sewer common and most likely common water as well. Correct. Uh this is from uh Josh Abbott, the fire prevention office regarding the special
permit request for 167 North Road. This offers the following findings. The proposed change from a single family to a two-f family dwelling must comply with the current code 780 CMR requirements of smoke, carbon monoxide, and heat detectors, including their types,
locations, and power sources. The applicant is advised to submit plans to the fire prevention office for review and approval prior to the issuance of a building permit. This office would approve the plan subject to these conditions and I respectfully request that the board incorporate this letter
into its approval process and the public record. Sincerely Josh Abbott Chsid fire prevention office. So the the plans were updated with the smoke location, smoke detector and heat detector locations as well. The plan the draft plan I submitted actually the
plans uh before the meeting I updated with uh stamped plan as well. So that's part of that those attachments. Yep. No, that that's fine. We're you know the the building inspector is going to review all things before the permit are issued. Okay. So we're just recapping basically.
Understood. This letter is regarding the proposed project at 167 North Road. The proposed project is to convert a single family dwelling existing prior to 1938 into a two family dwelling. If this project cannot connect to the town sewer system,
it would then require an on-site septic system, which must meet the title 5 regulations pursuant to 310 CMR 15 septic systems along with the health department's application and inspection process. Asbestous abatement and pest management
must be completed before a building permit can be issued for this proposed project. Donna Greenwood, health director, Chumpsford Board of Health. Couple changes there. I also have a letter from the police
citing no concerns. That is the extent of my letters. Any further questions from the board? I'm going to turn this over to the audience. If someone would like to uh comment on this application, either in favor or against, now would be the time.
Seeing none. Wow. I can't believe. Ask for a motion. I'll make a motion. Close the public hearing. Close the public hearing. Motion by Peter, seconded by Stephen. All in favor? I don't really see any any big problems
with it. Uh, it's all within its structure. So, yeah, it's it's really by right. It's just a process of getting the permit. Very much like a motion, Peter. There's a motion, Pete. Go ahead, Pete. Go ahead. No, you're on.
I'll make a motion to approve the special permit under section 195 uh-5 use regulations A4 in accordance with section 195-13, conversion of dwelling units uh to convert the uh dwelling at 167
North Road uh taking all the letters into consideration. Second. Second by Charlie. All in favor? I unanimous. Good luck with it. Okay. Easy. That's good.
Pretty straightforward. So, we're going to step back and go to 29 Mission Road. Robert Theion is requesting a special permit and/or variance under section 1958 nonconformity to exceed the percentage lot coverage and the floor area ratio F
and section 1959 conformity 20% reduction to reduce the side setback to construct an attached 23x 26 garage and any other relief deemed necessary. This property is located in the residential RB district.
someone here to speak tonight for Mr. Theion or Mr. Theion. Hi, my name is Bob Theion, 29 Mission Road. Uh, it's been quite a ride. Uh, my wife and I have owned a house for 30 years, but it's been on our family for
six years. It's where she grew up. Uh, I think all you got a copy of the letter I put together to do you all have that? Yep. explains the the background and so I don't want to go over that again. Uh
but at at some point we decided this is the house we're going to retire and you know we've done a lot final site and insulation generator new roof uh uh put in many splits. Uh we've done a lot uh to get this ready. Uh the thing we couldn't
foresee uh is the turn on my health. Uh and you know, I've got some serious issues. Uh I just can't be out there shoveling snow. Uh
when I looked into it and I found out that the garage would meet the side setback and the front setback, uh we got pretty excited. Uh uh we spent money on having a big oak tree taken down that would have been on the way of
the driveway. Uh we hired engineer to survey the land. Uh we had uh tech come in and draw the plans for the uh garage because my sprinkler system the the hotter sprinkler system be in the way
underneath the garage. The sprinkler systems been ripped out. So, all told, right now, we're into this for about $10,000. Uh, that's when I found out that there's some coverage uh issues here that I wasn't had no idea
would run into. Uh, I hope for 4% uh our plans uh won't be uh deviated. I mean, I I don't know what else we can do. Uh uh if this isn't
passed uh you know we just have put a lot of thought into the design the garage uh I had a neighbor that had some concerns about how it's going to look. Uh I have the blueprints up here if anybody wants to see it and I can explain. We've
really put a lot into it and it's really going to add a lot of value not just to our house. It's going to be uh very pleasing to the neighborhood and I think it'll bring volumes in general up the houses around me. Um
I think that's about all I have to say. Uh I hope we can you know you allow us to do this 4% it's like keeps me up nights. Uh but that's what it is. Thank you.
Thank you. So, Mr. Chair, may I clarify something for the board? Absolutely. When I typed up the legal notice for um the newspaper and for the abutters, I um accidentally put in there the 20%
reduction of side setback was required. I thought that that um because I was looking at the wrong historic setbacks and it's in fact 10 ft for this gentleman's property. Um the historic setback is 10 feet. So he does meet that side setback which is why that was not
mentioned in Jose's uh determination letter. So I just wanted to clarify that was a mistake on my part. Fortunately we can advertise for more things. What's best is that we don't underadvertise. Uh fortunately I also advertised it as a
special permit and or a variance. And um in taking closer look at it, Jose did send a revised determination letter which was in I sent out today. And I don't know if everyone got to see that. Um, but that's what's now posted to it. And I'll that's what you have there if
you want to begin with that. Um, the revised letter states that it's it requires a variance, not a special permit for both the F and the the building coverage. Yeah. But the setbacks are acceptable. And I'll let Jose speak to that to confirm. Do you want to talk a little on that,
Jose? Yes, Mr. Chairman. Um, so this one is is kind of unique in a way. uh the applicant does meet the setback for the uh new structure that he's proposing. Uh the
initial letter I issue was based on a special permit, but then looking at the shape of the lot and uh the special permit I I didn't think he uh he was kind of creating a an adverse uh impact
on the neighbor. But I reconsider issuing a new letter based on a variance because I think that he does present some hardship and uh that's the reason the letter was revised
and reissued. He's also going over fire and he's going over uh a little bit on building coverage. four four and a half% four four and a half% um and the FAR is is
0.04 04. Well, that's that's extremely slight. I I mean, I think we could uh look at a reduction in the garage to get through the FAR, but uh not the building coverage, so it wouldn't really benefit. It' still be a variance to be issued.
So, what's driving the variance? Yeah. Um his F is 0.04 and his building coverage is 4.5% over the allowable. So those are not dimensional variances which would have the three tenants but
uh an area and and floor ratio or exceeding that but you don't issue those based on dimensional requirements. So it's it's not a dimensional variance. So it doesn't need the lot shape though it certainly would qualify as the house is
on on a bit of a skew. I don't know like that doesn't that the house being on a skew doesn't affect the lot shape and the lot is almost a rectangle right it's well I'm not asking you to lean on that I don't it's not dimension so it doesn't affect it at all
uh it is simply lot area which you're right it doesn't matter it's like a volume decision um and the same with the coverage so for this particular particular variance. You said there's no three tenants for lot shape.
There's not a dimensional variance. So why do we issue a variance for this? Is lot coverage in F. Okay. So what was the discussion about a hardship that that Jose was saying he switched from a special permit to a variance because of a like I didn't follow that.
I don't think it was because of the hardship. So why did you switch from a special permit to a varian? So in general if you look at the table uh that is with the plot plan um they went from uh and I'm sorry because
my map is sideway I'm going to try to so they went from uh the the the for example on far uh the requirement is 20 uh the actual
FAR at the house is.17 17. Yeah. And they increased that to 24. Um and then on the building coverage they
uh went from point 11 11.4 to 19.4 four and for the reason I change it to the variance based on the logic for a special permit
if it's my understanding if it's creating an impact on on the butter that on the neighbors and to me I don't think that was applicable I thought that looking at the shape of the lot and the way the house is kind of reconfigured
kind diagonal to the to the lot. Um, I thought that it was a hardship to issue a a variance instead of a special permit. But we determine if it's a special permit or a variance based on what kind of exemption they're trying to get
outside of the bylaws, like if it's over 20% or 10% or setbacks, not whether it's a hardship or in. Isn't that correct? You you need to have a hardship to obtain a variance. No, no, no. I'm saying but we determine
the requirement or need between a special permit or a variance is whether or not they exceed a certain percentage or overage of the bylaw. To me, it was based on the increasing of a nonconformity structure based on
section 195 AD. So the specific like if if there's a single thing that made you go from special permit to variance what was that or is it multiple like I I'm trying to follow the the
so in this situation uh like I said this one could have gone on a special permit but based on going back to 195 AD and 195 uh two.
I saw this one as a as a variance, not a special permit because they they they increase uh they increase the nonconformity that already existed and also the the topography of the lot and the
the house and they change. Jose, when we um spoke, didn't you um your concern there special permit variance? When we spoke, you mentioned it's because the uh percentage lot coverage and floor
area ratio were conforming initially even though the dwelling is not but that those were conforming, right? And then you were concerned that it was creating a nonconformity, right? Which is all it's on the uh outline of the and that's why you changed it, right? A further nonconformity,
right? But things that create nonconformities can be a special permit if the delta is below some limit and above some limit. It becomes a variance like but it's already non-conforming, isn't it? Overall, isn't the property already
non-conforming? Well, it is not for the FAR and the building coverage. Oh, for those particular line items. Okay. But the structure in itself. So for foreign building coverage,
there's no delineation that says below 5% is special permit and above 5% is a variance. It's it's more subjective. Okay. I mean there's not that point. It's not the 20%. It's very easy with the dimensional
requirement. Special permits issued wave A2 requirement. All right. I have a question like um what what size garage would work without a variance?
Is it a singlestory garage? It's currently 23 by 26 ft. Right. Right. Got that. So 0.04 wouldn't take a lot. We have enough numbers here to pull this off. Nobody Nobody brought an engineer, did they?
Yeah. Where's the engineers? I've given that a lot of consideration, but it's like just can't back up on the dunky garage if I try. I mean, yeah, I mean, you could you you could get away with a 22 foot wide garage. I
have one, so I can say this. Uh, it's a single door, but it it works fairly well at 22. And that's a new And that's a new I think that might get you out of the F, but uh not the lot coverage would only be uh 24 feet
or 26 feet out of 8,400. So that's not going to get us 4% or anywhere close to it. Oh, it's a new addition. At that point, you know, to get it to get the a F right is fine, but it wouldn't matter. still have the the lot coverage
and I really don't think they can go any smaller than uh 22 without it becoming difficult. A variance required. It's a new structure which is causing a nonconformity. So a variance is required.
That's more followable for me. Yep. 1958D. No, we could stare at this for a little while. I think I'll read some letters in. Yeah. And it's not a by rate. This is from the building commissioner. Dear Mr. Theion, this notice serves as
denial to the proposed addition at the above regarded address. The addition exceeds F by 0.04. 04 ratio and building coverage by 4.5%. Therefore, creating a new nonconformity and needing a variance from the board of appeals for zoning relief. You can
appeal this decision within 30 days of this notice at the community development department. Thank you. Respectfully, Jose Niguan, building commissioner. I have a letter from the DPW regarding 29 Mission Road. Robert Theion
requesting a special permit and/or variance under section 1958. As a result of this review, this offs the following comments. Record sewer does not show any conflict with the proposed structure. Erosion control devices must retain the
sediment on site. These must be installed prior to any work or demolition. The street should be swept and cleaned from construction dust. Consideration should be made to install the roof drain drywalls or the equivalent to infotain roof runoff. This
is not a requirement for approval. If a driveway is going to be installed that connects to Mission Road, road opening permits and a licensed contractor are required. This permit can be done at 9 Alpha Road. Nobody signed that one.
This is from the fire department. Dear members of the board, regarding the special permit variance request for 29 Mission Road, this office finds the following. For 780 CMR51, a heat detector shall be installed in the new garage. It must be hardwired and
interconnected to at least one device located within 20 ft of the nearest door to the garage. This is the minimum required protection. However, we recommend upgrading the entire home to a hardwired interconnected system with smoke and carbon monoxide detection throughout.
Plans will be reviewed by this office as part of the building permit process to ensure compliance with the building code and detector locations. This office would approve these plans with these conditions. I respectfully request that you include this letter in your public record as part of your approval process.
Sincerely, Josh Abbott, Captain Chelms fire prevention and that's public comment. Comment here. Just want to So this is from Sylvia. I might have a mess with this. Toman, 31
Mission Road, North Chamford, Mass. Mr. Mayan writes, "Do the honorable members of the zoning board. I am writing in response to the butter notification legal notice that I received from your office in the mail on June 28th, 2025.
This letter is for 29 Mission Road, North Chelmswood on behalf of Robert Theion requesting a special permit and/or variance under section 1958 nonconformity to exceed the percentage of lot coverage and floor area
ration and section 1959 conformity 20% reduction to reduce the side setback to construct an attached 23x 26 garage and any other relief deemed necessary. The property is in the residential RB district. The lot questioned abuts my
property at 31 Mission Road North Champs. I am the owner, Sylvea Toman. The date and time provided by the board of appeals for public hearing at town is Thursday, July 10th, 2025. I am not available to attend due to a prior commitment. Therefore, I am sending my
comments in writing as instructed in your letter and as instructed by the office staff when I was down at town hall on July 3rd, 2025 to inquire about the subject matter of this letter. I hereby oppose the request for a special permit and/or variance as described in
the letter for the following reasons. The garage requested would be intrusively close to my property line on the bedroom side of my home. Aside from presenting privacy issues and unsightliness, I am most concerned about the unwelcome noise that would come with
having a garage so close. This proposed garage in such tight proximity will interfere with the reasonable enjoyment of my property as a retired person. In addition, I have significant concerns about the impact this would have on the resale value of my home. I believe that
a fence could possibly mitigate my concerns above and present a possible solution to the privacy concerns, noise reduction items placed along the garage, i.e. trash containers and a clean sight line separating the properties. If Mr.
Theion were amendable to installing a partial fence on my property to match the existing fence, I believe that all parties could come to a reasonable resolution. I can be notified at an email address if there are any questions. Thank you for your attention
to this matter. Silva Toman, 31 Mission Road, North Champsford. I have a memorandum from the board of health with no concerns. I believe I'd have to look it up. I'm not sure. I have a memorandum from the police with no concerns.
That is the extent of my letters. Do whatever you want. So assuming we could move ahead, would you be amendable to a fence? I'd like to address that. I'm going to ask you to approach the podium. Rod just brought this up.
Yeah. He doesn't need anything. if it meets setbacks. Well, he needs a special permit. Shall not be deemed over the years. Uh she's been trying to get me to go with her to put up a fence.
Uh I don't want to, you know, it's a lot of money for me to take it on by myself. I'm She's seen this opportunity to try to force me to do it on my own. Now, it's going to cost me $600 to get an
engineering firm and to set two points to see where my property line is exactly to write the fence. I've got old shrubs between my backyard and her backyard uh that give us both a lot of
privacy. Uh I'd have to hire a company to come in. I couldn't get those out myself to remove them. than to buy the fence material and to pay to have it constructed. We're talking a lot of money, you know,
thousands of dollars. And I think her point that my garage is obtrusive to her. Well, my garage is within code, you know, as far as it will be 10 and 1/2 ft
from her property. and you know the idea that she doesn't like what we're doing with our property. Well, we own it, you know, and we're not we're not asking to come closer to her property than what the code allows us and I don't think I
need to spend that much money because she's wanted a fence for years and now it's up to me to do it. Am I just confused? But you are coming closer to her property. No, we'll be within the silver domain here. But the required setback is 10 ft.
They're within they're within dimensional setback, right? That's what Jose was saying that they're within they're within the dimensional setback. Historic dimensional setback. Historic is 10 ft and it's 10.6. So my garage is laid out. So it'll be 10
and 1/2 ft. We'll get that extra half a foot just to make sure. I was under the impression that you were encroaching. So I I apologize. Okay. So that's that that's my feeling on it. So those are the letters I have written. I'm going to open this up to the
audience. There are any questions uh in favor or opposition to this? Now would be the time. Alan Costus 1 Southwood Drive, Chmsford. I'm the owner of Finest Builders. I've been contracted with the Theans to build
this garage. I've kind of guided them along the way and told them what they needed engineering, they needed plans, we needed to submit them and meet the setback requirements. this um overage on the square footage. We made
that garage as small as we could to make it fit within the property line. And with the stairs inside the garage and the vehicles in there and for him to put his barrels in there so he's not outside in the snow, uh it really doesn't
do anything to help them at all, you know, to make it smaller. It just, you know, this is as small as we could possibly make it to make it comfortable and functionable. And also, you know, I've been in this business for a long time, 42 years, and anytime I've
done anything, it's improved the neighborhood. It's not a deterrent to the neighbor or anything. And it just improves the property and makes the neighborhood more inviting for everybody. So, you won't be taking any from the neighbor. you wouldn't be
taking any value away from her property at all. I see this as an opportunity for her. She's trying to get a fence out of the guy, which is kind of what happens nowadays from people. But I I really think that you should grant this permit
to these people so they can enjoy, you know, their LD years in the home that they've had in the family for 60 years. You know, I don't foresee it being a big deal. Thank you. Thank you. Ron Wetmore. And I'll go so far as to
say that Bob is my brother-in-law, so you can't hold it against me. We hold it against you. I just want to It's too bad we don't have a picture of everything because Do we have a picture?
Yeah. This is a well-maintained house that Bob has improved over the years that they've lived there. And the siding is relatively brand new and it's going to be matched up with the with with this
here. History tells us that if if you put an improvement to a property, it doesn't take anything away from the other property. Actually, it improves that property. The value of that property goes up too.
You know, the other side of Bob's house, there was a home that went for $700,000. That increased the value of Bob's house and also Sylvia's house. I mean, so the argument about it's going to de devalue her property is really not there. It's
actually going to improve it. It's going to be worth more because the whole street's been improved. And there's been a lot of improvement on the street as we're going down. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. There's no elevation picture, is there?
Elevation drawing. I mean, that's a bit No, not not the picture. Drawing. I'm sorry. Drawing. You can change it to a Google map and insert your lines. Are you looking for the the future? Yeah, I don't think there are elevations drawn at this point. Okay. Are plans drawn yet, Alan? For this
elevation? Plans. We have them. Yeah. I think this gentleman wanted to peek at them. Rod, do you have an elevation draw? Take a look at them. Okay. the second page. Good evening. Hi, my name's Lisa Goen. I'm a little horse. I live at 38 Mission Road. I've
been neighbors of theirs for well over 30 years. I grew up with Mara. They take great care of their land. I don't say where he lands. They've done a lot with their house. Looks very nice. There we go.
It does. And all our houses do. So, I can only guarantee that having a retirement there would be great. We plan to retire in our house too. Good. I would go for it. Just takes away from the aesthetics of the place. Oh, is this just for aesthetic use? Is
there going to be two doors? There's two separate two separate doors. It's creating a new nonconformity. Couldn't make this for the owner. I I heard your argument. So, Mr. A question for you.
Um where those trees are in the the picture of your your houseimar. Is that on the property line? The the the shr the hedges or whatever the bushes it was. Is that the tree that you had removed?
That tree is the one I just had removed. Yeah. But like these guys here, these these bushes back here. Is that on the property line? Yeah. Well, actually I own to this side. Okay. So those bushes are 10,000 square feet. But now if you were to put in a fence,
would those bushes have to come down to get the fence in? Yeah. I mean this is basically my property line is for the you know principally like her property line comes to about here
just talking to engineers and it goes back and it goes to the the side of the uh five miles. So, yeah, those are all also I mean I think you have a a is there a proposal for how tall this fence is
supposed to be that's supposed to go in? I want to actually Okay. But that's what she's requesting. And in her initial request, she thought they needed zoning relief for the garage itself, like the setback of the garage. It turns out there is no
zoning relief needed for the setback. It's within right now. I I just want to say there that I've been very upfront. We went over when we first had the idea we're going to build a garage. We talked to her. We explained the size everything about it. We're
going to remove the street so on and so forth. Yeah. in my next door. Until today, when my wife looked at this committee, we had no idea that she objected to anything. It was like she never come over and asked.
She never asked to see the plans. Yeah. And like I said, if you look at the plans, thank you very much. Put a lot of thought into it. It's going to be uh stepped out just a little in the front. It's going to have a gable facing the street. We're going to have vinyl shingles.
uh not just the vinyl clapboard. Uh we're going to with the twocar garage uh we're going to have two separate doors. We rode around a lot of neighborhoods looking at garage doors and we picked out doors that we think are really going to look. So
this this came out of nowhere today. I haven't talked to her uh like I said, but she's always wanted to put a fence up between our property. Not because we don't get along. I think what how it all started too is when we first told her we were going to put a garage she said oh
you're taking my property and I'm I'm aing his wife and we explained to her no we're not taking your property we have the enough side yard and but that's how she is sometimes just you know so like he said she never came over to look at the plans we never knew she was going to
drop she had any objection so but but we did know she had always wanted a fence Seems like stuff there would do some screening as much as if not more than a fence because it looks taller than bushes. It's pretty well grown in. You're going to have to take a lot of
those bushes down obviously. Yeah. So you you cut all those down to put a shorter fence than the and the bushes will remain during construction. Whatever we can keep, we're going to keep they they want their privacy. She's got
animals that run around, you know, make a lot of noise and they want their privacy also. Certainly. Certainly. Are there any other comments this evening? I have a question that I'm a little confused about and it's really directed
to you, Mr. Chairman. His I believe that the conforming square footage for a lot in an RB district is 10,000 square feet. uh conforming 40 40 It's 40,000 an acre. So it's a non-conforming lot.
Yeah, it is. It's already non-conformist without without problem. I thought we have we've approved variances in the past with non-conforming lots that they don't that's what I was reading in here. And and if I understand my I had to go
to town council the night we did this that the these uh setbacks and fire requirements don't don't apply to an existing non-conforming lot. That was Jose's interpretation. I'm I'm not sure. Yeah, I think we we ran this through uh
I could I could reach out to the new town council, but previous conversation with uh the previous town council that still applies. They do apply. They do apply. FAR does apply fire and building and building. If you look at ED, if you look at ED,
insufficient lot coverage does not insufficient lot if they meet setback lot coverage does not would not be considered an increase in nonconformity. However, um they would not be able to increformity
by FAR if they currently meet FAR. cannot. It's just the setbacks that it's not. So, they're going to they're going to add a nonconformity by no longer complying with FAR and that's the problem. No longer complying with Right. Because they comply with FAR now.
Okay. I'm I'm a little behind the time. Yeah. Sorry. And that's why it's a variance. That's why it's a variance. Gotcha. Because the FAR is the one thing that we cannot they're adding to the nonconformity with a new they're they're adding a new nonconformity which is the FAR.
Okay. In the FAR you can't special permit even though it's currently a non-conformity lot. They're not increasing a current nonconformity. Does that make sense? Yep. Makes perfect sense. I just I was
misreading the paragraphs. That's all. They're in compliance with their FAR. They're in the non-conformity. They're just increasing FAR, right? Which is going from conformed to non-conform. And that's where we get the variance requirement by 0.04. Yeah, that's inconsequential.
I I really think, you know, the board ought to take a hard look at this one. I mean, these are people, like they've said 60 years they've been owned the home. Um, it's it really isn't. They meet decide. It really Yeah. I I mean the things we've had to approve because of the state and things
like it just to me from the plans I just saw it looks like it's going to be a beautiful garage. Um they meet the side set back and I think we he's going to raise the comps in the neighborhood. You know these are one of the ones that I think we ought to take a good hard
look at and not be so hard nose on saying no to variances. You know I it's a non-conforming lot already, right? And they're meeting setbacks, right? Yes. Right. And it's not like they're going 20% over or, you know, 30% over FAR.
Yeah. Like we've I mean, we've had some pretty large FAR requests before. I think also it's it's kind of our duty to look out for our town people that live in the town and trying to be a little safer with health issues and my father went through this. I had to clean out his garage so I know exactly what they're talking about.
and and it was much safer veteran of myself and knowing what modifications my home is going to require in another 10. I'm already making modifications as it is. The garages are awesome. I might say I'm in the same boat as you are and pretty soon I'm going to have to make improvements to my house.
Got a card for All right. Well, I'm going to make a I'm going to ask for a motion to close the public hearing. I'll make a motion to if we're through with questions and such. Does that make sense? Yeah. Motion. Who second? Motion by Jamie. Second. Thank you, bud. All in favor?
I hear is closed. I think we can take this up now. Um, I really don't see any any problem with approving this as uh I realize it's a variance and that's a bit of a dirty word, but this is as minor as it could possibly be
and if we can't offer some relief to people that are in this position. Wait, wait, really? Who's who's voting on this? I'm not. So, you will be I will be Jamie, Charlie, and Peter. This is the first time we've heard this one. Correct. That's correct. That's correct. No
continuence. Richard, I I just wanted to say something before we voted. Um um I understand the health issues. I understand, you know, the garage. I understand the side setbacks. I understand everything. Um but just as
we're voting, I just want like everyone to know we're voting on the lot and the land in the house. We're not voting for, you know, um medical issues or whatever. for voting on the the neighborhood, the house, right? And that's
definitely that's all I wanted to say, which appears to have quite a few 8,400 or similar lots, right? It doesn't seem like it it does anything to upset the neighborhood. I mean, listen, it's adding to the neighborhood. It's adding to the value
of their property and the properties around it. It's meeting setbacks, so it's not encroaching on anyone else's property lines by current standards. So I mean looking at how is it infringing imposing on their neighbors I don't see
any and it's not becoming grossly overbearing on the land coverage overall. When you said the thing about the neighbors I'm assuming we are not
adding any stipulations for fences with our the setback's not an issue. I was in that direction till I understood there is not an encroachment. There's no settling. You don't really have a right to I I just wanted to make sure we Yep. And the motion I would have where I misunderstood. I would have said this is
something I'd like to see uh to appease the neighbor and it's right if we're coming an inch closer, but we're not. We're He is within his setbacks and that to me is enough. But I mean, for me, I already thought there's privacy screening there. To take privacy
screening down to put other less effective privacy screening up doesn't seem more appealing to the neighbor, but I personally like looking at vegetation more than fake wood. So, or or plastic. I don't know about anybody else, but I prefer to looking at vegetation. So,
take paradise. Put up a parking lot. Right. Right. That's right. Paradise. That sounds like a motion. you. Yeah. Oh, are you ready? Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. Um I'd like to make a motion to um
approve the variance for 29 Mission Road um with all the letters written in or read into our meeting um with the exception of the fence. The the fence is not going to happen. It's just not at this time. Neighbor wants to put in a fence, it is
their right. So they could worry that fence of course. And before we vote, I want to again I guess clarify this variance does not need lot shape uh the topography or whatever the other thing is for this because it's a
condition because it's a non-dimensional variance. Correct. Just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page with that. Voting on the far by the way coverage. I have to second the motion, right? You can. And yes, Peter second. Peter seconded. Thank you.
All in favor? I I'd like to have my vote recorded even though you unanimous. Good luck with it. Good luck with it. Thank you for your service. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Enjoy your garage. Jenny, you're you're a disabled business. I am.
I I go every day to bed. Good luck with it. So do I. Well, at least once a week. Yeah. Step on my toes. It just comes out. I get all my medical treatment there. I do too. 100%. Okay. I love a happy ending. Mhm. It's why I have this. There's no ending.
That's why my plates say what? Good evening. Evening. And I don't do stairs. I've had a knee replacement, ankle reconstruction, shoulder repair. I broke my back in a train accident. This is 6163 Middle Sex Street. Everett
Murray is requesting an administrative appeal under the zoning law bylaw section 1952B3 for the inability to conduct auctions. Yeah, I don't understand that. Oh, for the inability to conduct auctions as the premises per the
building commissioner's determination and denial decision and any other relief deemed necessary. This property is located in the light industrial IIA district. Good evening. Good evening. Greg Aladina for the uh petitioner Everett Murray. Mr. Murray is
here with his wife. Um Mr. Murray owns 6163 Middle Sex Street. He purchased it in January of 2023. And as you stated, it's in the IIA zone where among the permitted uses is a warehouse. Um and Mr. Murray intends to use a
portion of the property for a warehouse. Now, Mr. Murray also owns a business, TripleM Moving Storage. Uh he's operated TripleM for over 24 years. And among other things, a principal part of their business is doing moveouts in eviction cases, which requires you store property
that you take out of a prop a home where the tenant has been evicted. Um, and a warehouseman, um, as you may know, is statutoily subject to a series of requirements when you warehouse goods. It's a regulated industry, and one of
the most technical regulations is chapter 239 section 4 relating to evictions. Um, when a warehouseman takes property in an eviction or a mover takes it out, um, there are requirements that you store the goods for six months. Um, if they're unclaimed, then you have a
lean on the goods that you've stored and then they're sold in a manner authorized under the uniform commercial code. The eviction statute also goes on to say that the um, property if sold by auction um, the owner has specific rights. The
owner can buy one portion of the whole property. They don't have to buy it as a lot. But the statute specifically refers to auctions occurring in connection with eviction moveouts and the uniform commercial code which um provides for warehouseman's leans whether it's an
eviction or just any other storage situation where you have a a customer storing property. Uh if they don't pay um then there's a lean and it can be enforced by a private sale or a public auction. Um and the statute, the uniform
commercial code specifically says that uh any sale, private sale or public, uh must be at the nearest suitable place where the goods are stored. It's almost as if there's a statutory requirement that you do the sale near to where you're storing the goods. Otherwise, there might be an incentive to hold an
auction 100 miles from where the uh goods are stored, and that would create a disincentive from people bidding and buying their property. Um Mr. Murray is a licensed auctioneer and uh Becky, if you could pull up I
think it's the uh on the agenda on the revised agenda. It's the 10th item down. Yep. The state certificate. Yes. Is it this one or the other? The other
auctioneer. Okay, there it is. So there you go. Um yeah, Mr. Murray has been um licensed for as an auctioneer by the state for almost 30 years. Um previously his last location where he had a warehouse was in Towns End and he
conducted auctions there. He was uh licensed by the um selectman in Townsend. Um he sold that property, but while he was at Townsend, he had no incidents or problems uh storing property and conducting auctions there. Now, after buying 6163 Middle Sex
Street, uh, Mr. Murray had to undertake a few things. As you can see from his license, he does business as Murray and Murray auctioneers. He's an individual, so he needed a business certificate from the town, and he also needed what he believed was an auctioneer permit. So, if you look at the um I did a screenshot
of the town's website. I believe that's the sixth one down on the revised agenda. Becky, if you could go to that. One second. I'm looking for it the page. You're talking about our bylaw, correct? Yes.
Actually, no, the screen. No, not that one. It's the screenshot of the uh town website where it lists all the uh permits that are available and which board issues. Oh, the select board license listing. That might Yes, that would be it. Sure. This is a screenshot from the town
website and uh you can see that lists all permits and licenses and who issues them and you can see department of public works and on the next page if you keep scrolling down you'll see the select board and I highlighted yellow auctioneer licenses according to
the town website the select board issues the auctioneer licenses and um I believe the next attachment shows not only does the board of selectmen or at least the town promulgate a list
of licenses and who issues them and among them are auctioneers for the uh select board. They publish a fee schedule and you can see they charge fees for either a daily auction permit or a yearly auction permit. This is the board of selectman's uh schedule of
fees. And then based on all of this, if you go down to the next attachment, I believe was the eighth one, Becky, right after this, there is an application for an auctioneers permit that's promulgated by
the board of selectmen which uh Mr. Murray completed and it had not yet been filed yet because as I indicated, he's doing the auctions for triplem moving and storage that actually does the moving and warehousing. He's going to conduct the auction. He's the licensed auctioneer and he does business as
Murray and Murray. So, he has to get a business certificate and he believes he has to submit this to the select board, the uh application for an auctioneer's license. And if you could go Becky to the uh fifth
attach uh attachment there, that's the business certificate that um Mr. Murray had prepared. And it was this business certificate that he circulated and went to uh the building commissioner
to get the sign off required. And that's when he learned uh from Mr. to grow in his opinion that the um act of conducting auctions is prohibited within Chsford within the IIA not
I believe Mr. Negron said townwide um I think it's the industrial the IIA that created the the confusion you can speak to that Jose I'm sorry uh in the district in which uh Mr. Hadina is representing his uh client uh
is in an IIA district and uh the oceaner business is not allowed. My recollection, Jose, is that you had indicated it was not permitted anywhere in town. Is it my It's not listed anywhere on the uh the only
So, is it prohibited? No, no, it's just not it's just not listed as a permitted use anywhere in town, not just in the IIA. It's not as if it's something you could do in certain districts, but not in IIA. It's just not listed as approved anywhere in Chel Street.
In any event, uh after learning that from Mr. Negron, um we filed this uh application for administrative appeal. And interestingly enough too, if you could get look at chapter 116 of the town bylaws, use of public buildings, it says auctions um are not permitted in
public property. Why would there be a bylaw saying you can't do something on public property if you can't do it anywhere in town? I mean, clearly just you can't use public buildings for auctions, but there is obviously uh the possibility of using um private property to conduct auctions.
And again, based on all of that, that's why we're asking for an appeal of uh Mr. Negro's determination. Okay. That says you can't do it in public buildings with an exception. So that doesn't say except for town business.
Yeah. So that doesn't say you can't do it in in public buildings. Just you can't do it except for business. Town business. Town could have an auction. Yeah. In a public building. Yes. In any event, the warehouse use
um broadly incorporates the obligatory auctions that are conducted by warehousemen. If you're allowed to use something for a warehouse, it almost includes enforcing the leans you have on the property that you're storing. It's part and parcel of warehousing. Um that's as evidenced by the statutory
scheme that I outlined. Um, and even if warehousing were to be narrowly defined and then to enforce your leans, that's a whole separate use to auction off what you're storing. Even if that were the case, um, it would clearly be, in my opinion, an accessory use. Accessory to
the warehouse use is conducting auctions to enforce your leans. Um, it's certainly incidental to the permitted use of warehousing. it's statutoily required that you do certain things when you have a warehouse and you're um enforcing a lean on the property. And if
you think it through, um what would be the implications of not allowing uh auctions anywhere? How many times do you see in the newspaper ads for a foreclosure sale by a mortgage company, a bank foreclosing? They always, almost always, they say, "We're going to have the auction sale on the premises." That
just happens every day. If you hear uh ads on the radio, you hear JJ Manning, they conduct auctions instead of regular sales of property, they conduct them on the property site. Auctions on private property are not uniformly and blank and prohibited by
any blanket prohibition. They're just not listed as a specific permitted use. But it's clearly part to me it's part of warehousing. It's part and parcel or it's at least an accessory use. it's incidental to what you're doing as a warehouse. And for those reasons, we're just asking if we could conduct either
as part of our warehousing or incidental to our warehousing is to conduct auctions perhaps once a week just to unload property that is stored in our warehouse that we hold a lean on and we're complying with the statutory requirements. And among them are conducting the sale is near the nearest
suitable place where the goods are stored. That would be in the building where we're storing them. So, if I could ask you a couple questions. One, do you feel there's adequate parking where you to have an auction? Yeah, there are 51 uh parking spaces. 40
of them are available on the building. And do you have any idea how many auctions you would anticipate in a year? Would anticipate only doing them on Saturdays, Mr. Once or twice a month? Once or twice a month. There would be 15 is a possibility or 20
or something. I would I'm I'm I'm concerned that it all of a sudden it's a flea market to be honest with you. All of a sudden something's being sold every every Oh, no. This is that's Mr. Murray has been operating moving for 30 years. I mean, this is what he does. I mean, it's But I I think that, you know, once you
have the auctioneers license, maybe it comes convenient to have auctions there pretty regularly. So, I I did notice that the town has a daily permit for auctions that you can fill out, which is very curious. You can fill
out and have an auction in town. I don't quite know where. Uh daily or yearly. There were two separate fees for each, right? I mean, I I think if if and certainly got some conversation here, uh, but if we did it, we would allow it
to be on a on a daily basis with a a cap on the auctions per year. I think it makes sense that you have the auction where the property is stored. I I know you're not going to display it or, you know, you're going to say this is what we have and probably a little like on TV as you see.
It's a statutory requirement. You have to have it at the nearest That's a requirement. That's a state requirement. The uniform commercial code. Yes. You don't relocate it. No, you do not. So, he's really limited from having the auction uh if he doesn't do it there. He can't put it somewhere else.
No, not under the uniform. You can't have it. Just says you have to do it in the nearest allowed suitable place. Right. Yeah. Place. So, where the goods are stored, right? But if if for some reason you couldn't do it in that like if the warehouse didn't have any zero parking
zero room like if if it was a tiny warehouse and it was filled to capacity and not that this is the case. Yeah. But if one had to then do an auction and they had a warehouse across the street, they could do it in the nearest suitable
location which would be not at the property based on what I'm hearing for the law. Right. That's what it sounds like. Yeah, but if he can't do it in Chsford, he would have to leave town to do that. So, whatever the nearest suitable location is, whether that's Bill or
Yeah, but based on the building commissioner's determination, it's not permitted anywhere in town. So, no, I I I I did not say that. As a matter of fact, you can read I don't know if you have record of my letter, but uh Mr. Chairman, if you don't mind, can you read the letter for the records? Yep, I'll be glad to read that right in
as soon as I get my confusing district. show permitted use. I I don't think I saw it on the entire list. And and for it does market understanding, is there ever a limit to the amount of auctions someone can have once they have that auctioneer
license or whatever the So Steve to uh be more specific basically when somebody come to establish a business in town, I try to help as much as possible and there is a provision in the bylaw that says if you cannot find that
specific business within the table, then you go to retail uh uh uses and services not health set forth uh which is this case uh I couldn't find anywhere in which I could and I I talked
to the planning department uh to the planning department and we try to find ways to help unfortunately the interpretation is that it is a retail um
they providing services is is retail people will come in come out, people will buy, people will So based on that, I I had no choice but to uh deny it. So the retail is tied to the auction or just the warehouse in general? What
it's it's ti is tied to the to the to the to the business uh type auction the use. Okay. To the use, right? But if if this was a warehouse that was not doing auctions, then it would not be classed as retail. that
if it was a warehouse then I will have to which are go to the B to see if warehouses are allowing that district would get a board of appeals okay but it's like industrial district not retail not commercial IA
but it it can be a warehouse where it is because that's what it's so I'm just trying to understand is it being classed as retail not because it's a warehouse but because auctions are happening right So, right. So, if an auction never happened,
it wouldn't be classified as a retail, right? But even based on if you look at it as a flea market or based on that explanation, according to the bylaws, it is authorized. So, I think what Jamie is referring to is in the zoning of principal use
eustrial. Uh, this is 195 attachment one.5. I'm not sure what that means. Retail sale of goods. 12 is retail sale of goods the majority of which are produced or undergo processing on the
premises are allowed in an IA district and is yes item 12 so processing is like handling I mean it's not processing is not
defined so I mean it's not manufactured certainly not manufactured that would not apply or produced processed in the fact that it's there, it's housed, it's stored, cataloged, and then processed and auctioned. Processing number did you say, Brian?
Item, it's uh item 12. Eindustrial principal use on attachment semicolon 5 195 attachment one. I don't know what that means. There's also, if you look
two pages back, there's also a reference about flea markets and yard sales is permitted in the IIA. I'm missing I'm missing the section. I'm sorry. What's the section again? 19. It's the chart in the back of the book. It's the use chart that you look at in the back of the book under industrial
under section E of the um zoning use chart 195 attachment. I'm trying to find it online. Oh, 1.5. I see the attachment. Go. Go forward. You're too far back. You're too far back. No, you're good. It's Yep.
Under industrial. Might need one more. Yep. Upside down. It's the one page. It's upside down. Yep. Oh, it's upside down. In the page before that, there's a reference to flea markets and garage sales and yard sales, which says is also
authorized in the IIA district. So if you want to quotate auctions to yard sales or flea markets well auctions are not specific but those are products those those are those are goods that are this that definition does not fit the
auctioneer because they are not producing product on site but they are processing processing not producing it says processing and you you mentioned it being a fact be a little vague to be processing but and you said you take goods. You issue a
warehouse receipt. You store them. You publish them. You It's process, not produce. Right. It says process, not produce. It does say process. If you look at like the UPS warehouse or the Amazon warehouse, they're process. Would you say they're processing?
They're not warehouses. What? Hi, I just couldn't hear you. Anita, so you can't you got to be careful. Distributions are defined in our zoning bylaws as distribution centers. So, PS is a distribution center. It is not a
warehouse. That was a hot topic at town meeting a couple years back. Okay. So that's very distinct dist uh definition. I think Jose's um interpretation of this is that this acts like a retail and that
is why it's not currently allowed in IIA. But this says retail is allowed in IIA. Retail is not allowed in IIA. It's allowed in CB. Well, you might want to look at the you authorized use chart because it says right there retail goods allowed for sale
majority of which are produced if they're part of the produced majority that are manufactured produced that's I mean doesn't say manufactured um we are and then to take step back the planning board is also looking at reszoning potential sections
of town to a CB light um we're in that process which we hope to bring in front town meeting maybe not this fall but next spring that would address some of these issues but I think where Jose and this kind of came up is because we don't
have auction per se defined this they had to make an interpretation of how this best fits and they're saying that it best fits more as a retail well would you consider an auction and I'm I don't know why I'm asking you actually I mean I'm not
would you consider that uh a retail sale of goods in auction. I would I would I would to be quite honest that's where specifically it says number 12 the retail sale of goods the majority of which are produced which we agree they are not produced
or undergo processing on the premises right but processing I think from a like a warehouse manufacturing pette like is a transfer I would interpret as a trans like something's changed the process it is it is being does Amazon process a product it comes
in one end it that goes out. I know we're saying that's a distribution center, not a warehouse. But I'm looking for the definition of processing. So out of that building, they they bring it in, they inventory it, catalog it, and they sell it. It's going through a
process. I mean, again, I mean, there's some planning board members, you know, we could debate what that is. I when I think of processing, I think it's gone through a transformation like proc it's I don't know. I'm kind of a fan of it. storage war on TV.
I would call what they do, this is the truth, I would call what they do processing. That's good. They take everything out of the storage unit. They decide what to do with it and it goes in a direction. Yep. I would I would say that would be processing. An auction is a retail sale. You just determined.
Again, it's not saying either way. I just wanted to proide clarity. And I know we're not looking at a huge problem. We're going to have auctions in every corner. Right. If any further clarification from any amendment to the zoning by the planning board, um we're only looking to comply with our
regulatory obligations of when you know property is abandoned by the owner for whom we're storing it to enforce our lean. This is not a business operation per se. So it's going to be a very limited impact is this is just in conjunction with what he
needs to do to continually run his I would take the position that even if you know we I you know except if it's retail and it's processed fine that's one argument another argument is it's part of warehousing how else can you conduct a warehouse if you can't come in off the dock by
statute and you have to do it under certain way or it's incidental use it's accessory either way you know the pro the only problem is it's not listed anywhere or as a separate use. Well, I think the zoning thing kind of makes it clear here, but he's and he and that's his way of recovering any lost capital that
paid and he's made a significant investment. I mean, the the deed recites consideration of over $3 million he paid for this building and he's operated warehouses in the past. It's been successful. He's had no problems in other towns. And when you look at what was issued by the selectman, auctioneer licenses,
Amazon, there's a fee schedule for auction permits. They tell you can get auction. everything strikes me as something that can be done particularly if it's only incidental or actually part of the warehousing use. That that's our view and I I I got to say I don't find it uh
pardon the word criminal at all to do an auction on this like it I think it would be unnoticed honestly it would be uh and we we do want to do it so it's it's by the town's bylaws and rules but I mean I think we've kind of met the onus here. I I feel we have.
So a arbitrary website. Oh, count on those guys. Where eprocarrier.com. What is a processing facility for packages? The carrier facility is one of the most important milestones and acts as a hub where packages are sorted,
processed, and routed to their final definition. So it's not saying you have to change it into something else or boil it or paint it. It's just it gets it to its next location. Got it. I held it. I labeled it. And I moved it someplace to another destination.
And even exchanged the value would be determined. Well, this is in the retail $100. That's that's a process. That's what you do. Yep. Yep. I don't Do you feel we're off track here, Jose?
As far as your interpretation, I think my my interpretation remains the same. I do respect everybody's point of view and the way you're looking at it. I believe that uh what you are describing as a retail
facility to me is is is very different than my what I see on the bylaws. Um maybe I seen how auctioneers work. You know a lot of people come to the premises there is a lot of gathering then maybe this is not the case with
this one. But what I think what I'm what we're saying though is disregarding how many attend. Do you agree that an auction can be classified a re like selling of goods that are processed?
network, right? Auction is not you don't consider auctioning a retail. I'm I'm struggling with that definition for auctioneers. Why? And again, maybe like I said, I don't I watch a lot of auctioneer shows and stuff. Maybe I'm missing the point a little bit here,
but to me it's completely different than than than packaging. And it's is it's not I understand there's a component of a component of of processing the item somehow because people have to purchase them
tag it value it but I at the end of the you know I will respect your opinion on the matter and whatever decision what is your definition of auctioneer you said we have a different definition what is so the way I seen it is you know a a
gathering of people coming around and and betting on bidding on items to purchase and that kind of stuff. Okay. So, there's a purchasing going on in your definition which is sales. What? They're buying things, right? that
that's part of the auction process that at some point people exchange some form of a product for some form of payment which is in that specific district I think is in
process I believe that building as well to change to retail kind of thing um again I'm going by that provision of the pilot that kind of when somebody like Mr. Haladina or the applicant comes I
try to help as much as possible and yeah I think the bylaw is a little you know the rules are the rules and that's your job to to interpret them and but again I respond as such respect whatever decision you the board makes today I'm good with it
I mean I my my opinion it is an incidental I mean use of a of as a warehouse as a business owner for a warehouse. That is how that is their primary means of recouping lost capital and if he's moving in storage
like that's that's it's just the known function of and they the state has regulatory requirements that how long they have to hold it, how they can get rid of it, how the lean process like it's regulated. It's not like he can just randomly start selling people's stuff. So it's very well controlled. Um,
and I mean he's so I don't I don't think this is something where he's just out there like it's going to turn into some auction flea market kind of deal every Saturday or every day market is actually allowed. So which which is allowed either way. It's even allowed in in the difference there.
And even if it is every Saturday, there's nothing that says there's a limit to how many auctions you can have, right? So yeah. No, I was just trying to get the scale of it uh understood. So, are there any comments letters for public comment?
Yep. I don't know that uh I have the letters. Sorry, I'll hand them to you. Yeah, I don't believe I have them. We'll switch. Switch. This is from the uh fire prevention
office. Dear members of the board, regarding the administrative appeal for 6163 Middle Sex Street, this offers the following findings. Without comprehensive floor plans, including but not limited to life, safety, architectural, fire alarm, sprinkler, and any other applicable plans. An
opinion not can be formed of the purpose you proposed use. A full code analysis by registered design professionals should also be provided for review by this office to evaluate any pertinent code standards for the proposed use. After the above name documents have been
provided, this office will be fully able to weigh in on the administrative appeal. Please include this letter in your decision process to make it part of the public record. I mean, can I ask you if if you have these items and uh the owner of the item
comes and says, "I want to pay my storage fees or whatever the deal is," how would they remove that? Would they themselves enter the building and just take the stuff and you would deliver to a point? No, they don't. They they would bring a truck to the loading dock and ask
bring it down podium. Yeah, if you can speak in the podium. I'm sorry. I'm having trouble hearing you. In that case, they would bring a truck to the loading dock and we'd bring the stuff down to them and uh they'll load up. And is the principal dwelling uh
sprinkled? Yes. Okay. That's really good. Well, it's sprinkled. Okay. Thank you. One more question before you leave. Is there a um I assume there's a a limit like the the fire limit of how
many people can be in the building? like is there some like you know less than 100 people like what's the Yeah. Well, I'm expecting no more than 20 people you know at the auction. So within the auctions you're within the the the capacity of the fire whatever.
Yes. Fire product. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So how does that apply? like what what what are they what I'm I'm trying to understand what can what are they going to make him do to his already existing
building for I think they'd want to make sure it was sprinkled minimally. I mean like Peter did this this used to sell furniture out of this very building. Yeah. But I mean the building already exists and it's there and it's been there for 100 years let's say. Yes. What
depending on what's being used, if there was any hazardous materials, they might implement specific storage requirements for fire safety. It doesn't sound like they're asking that. They're just saying we need plans. Like they're not asking what you store there. They're saying, "Well, we need floor plans." And well, are there there must be fire plans
on file, right? Yeah, there will be calculation law for uh fire loads and also occupancy for people. How many person at a given time will be at the which I don't know how this going to be controlled how many
people you're going to have that their occupacy certificate already has to have had that when they get in they sometimes unfortunately nothing but I mean we issue the occupancy but um it's a big building that could be quite
a large number the auctions done face to face or virtual or face to face I understand Yeah, in person. I'm I'm going to read the rest of the letters and we can have a better discussion. I think uh this is from
Lieutenant Jason Empor. I will not be able to offer an opinion on this matter until we know on the record what is being auctioned. That's from the police department. The building department's denial letter. Uh, the board of health has no concerns.
The DPW has no concerns. And this is uh in a butter letter. Dear honorable board members, I am a co-owner of ZMD LLC DBA Brick House Pizza North. We are director of butter located at 67
Middle Six Street. We have no objection to the Everett Murray conducting auctions on this property located at 6163 Middle 6 Street. Julie Brett Fay, co-owner, Brick House North, 67 Middle Sex Street.
Right down there, by the way. That's great. This is where the building is right there. I think so. The extent of my letters, I had a little comment. Um, well, I'm glad the planning board's taken up um the specific of this um auctioneer
thing, but I think um since we're might vote on this, yes or no, if we do um I think we should do a temporary permit for starters, you know, like like a month or two months. And why just just to make sure that works. But
how can we temporarily permit something that's what would be the basis of extending the temporary per like what would we be waiting for? Something that's been authorized by the by the because because we've never had this situation before. Yeah. Just want to make sure it goes okay.
We haven't had it in this specific building or in an IIA like I don't that I can remember. There's auctions all over town. Yeah. Yeah. Well Well yeah but there's no auction house so to speak. It's not an auction house.
It's a warehouse with an incidental use. Yeah. He's got to sell the stuff he's taking in. The product is going to be there whether it gets auctioned or not. They just respect the fire are there. They're legally stored there. They're
allowed to be stored there. If something illegal is stored there, that that is a different conversation. If something there shouldn't be, that that's a different conversation. But the items that are taken out of a home uh every day, people move, they put them in storage. These are the people that
cannot either afford or choose not to retrieve them at that point through due process. They sell them. So what we're Mr. Chairman, I think council should clarify on that because I thought I heard somebody say that they are not going to have auctions there, but I
think auctions. No, he thought she he thought as auction that it was an auctioneer house like and like that's their primary means that No, this isn't going to be Christy's or S. We're not conducting auctions. It's just incidental to warehouse. This I don't think this will affect any
of them. I'm just curios just curious myself. Most of the uh product that goes in there comes out of storage boxes where people have defaulted storage. It's homes like evictions from your home. a tenant is evicted and their
goods have to be placed in storage under statute for six months by a bonded life warehouseman such as Mr. Murray. So what will happen after the six months if the if the owners don't claim those during the six months the owner has a right to at least one visit to check on their property and then after the 6
months if they keep paying they can store it. If they don't pay then it's auctioned off. Which which way is auction off? It means they would publish in the newspaper there's going to be an auction and people will come to the building. That's what I want. Orge fitness just did that a couple of
months ago with their site over there in Drum Hill. They just had an auction for all their equipment inside Drum Hill. Very common practice to auction off a This would be in a specific area, but I know I missed it too. I'm at a loss of being a problem to the
town. I I got a comment. Got a comment from the audience. Yes. Yes, sir. Excuse me. I know. Um I just want to clarify something. During the course of the 6 months, we have to send out certified mails to these tenants, let them know where the property is being stored, how much their
rent is, and all that stuff. So that's what you know lead us lead us to an auction if they don't they don't comply with those regulations. So, if if my property is in your
warehouse by the result of an eviction, you've got my whole living room set. You send me a letter and say, "I've got your living room set. It's being stored and it's $200 a month for storage." Yes. If I'm 3 months in and I say, "I have
your three months of storage. I'm bringing my truck. I want my stuff." Of course, then that's the end of it. I give you the money. you pack my truck and we never see each other again. Exactly. Okay. Even if it's 5 months and the last day to make it 6 months, then
you have the right to still get your stuff and and what they have to pay you is the storage fee. Yes. Okay. At that point, you would not get the storage fee, but you would be entitled to earnings on the auction, right? After they some or all of your investment.
Exactly. Storage. Yes. Okay. But you had said we've never had a situation like this. There's auctions that have have occurred around town. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Yeah, we've had auctions occur around town. So, is there a moving and storage company that does it on a regular basis? I mean,
I can kind of Yeah, the the move it or lose it. I'm thinking of a place in lower. Move it or lose it does. Do they? Yep. Thank you. Thank you. So, are we ready to close the public hearing or are there some further questions?
Oh, that's correct. If anyone would like to speak in favor or opposition to this, now would be the time. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Luzer does. Please approach the podium and we'd ask for your name and address. Uh Ralph Block uh to Edward's place diagonally across the street from the
building. I don't have any objection to conducting auctions. Um, you have to get rid of some of the stuff. The building can only hold so much and
this poor guy can't be on the hook for all these rental fees without being able to recoup some of his his cost. So, business-wise, it all makes sense. Where I have an issue is signage,
lighting, hours of operation. At midnight, you can read a book on my front lawn. The illumination from that whole building area is crazy.
I' I've been by, but I've not noticed the illumination at night. So, go by go by after dark. It's It's pretty bright. Um, is the is the light from signage or just from inside the building?
Well, no. Since the realtor moved out of there Uhhuh. the the signage is no longer neon. We only have one neon sign to deal with. And I my understanding was that neon signs weren't permitted. The neon sign
is on 51. It's not on 61. This is not Yeah. Okay. He's not the owner of the neon sign. No, it's an ancillary. That's the other building. Gotcha. So far, the sign the signage on their building is tasteful.
It's flat against the building. It's not obtrusive. It's fine. So I just want some kind of assurance that we're not going to be dealing with Las Vegas serery signage on on
So there is a process to to get a sign. Sadly the sign advisory commission is I don't know defunct in a sense but I do know that Paul Con is trying to get it back where it belongs so that we have some teeth and and forcing them but they would have to apply for any change in
signage that would be awesome to the town. That would be awesome if that gets put in effect. That would be great. Don't they have light? We have a loom st illumination standards and lighting standards. Once once the LEDs came in, it got really complicated. LEDs are not measured in lumens, but in this
and that that just made a mess of the bylaw and it really fell apart. I don't I don't have we definitely I mean we definitely there is there is guidance on how bright lighting can be even from a residence but a commercial property. So, but it's but it's not enforced.
Um, right. I mean that true. We again we had issue with with 51 not 61 where the lighting you just don't want to see 61 increase the lighting more than anticipation you have Mr. Murray at all
or Mr. Hadina. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do you have any uh intention of uh increasing the lighting the exterior lighting on the building? I didn't know we have a problem with that. Um I'm learning this as well. So, I guess it I think what he's saying is
your building is not a problem, but he doesn't want it to become one. So, as a good neighbor, maybe you could avoid Exactly. avoid adding lighting if you can. There are a couple of light fixtures on his building that face the street.
Common sense would would dictate that the light shouldn't be facing the street. It should be facing from the street to the building. I get the purpose for the lighting. I keep everyone safe and keep everybody
safe keep the whole criminal element out of there. And that's great. It works. I just don't want to see it get any brighter. Yep. Yep. Well, he he sounds like he's very immunable if he just That's what I was just going to say. Yeah. And I suspect you could wander.
And you know what? Jose has worked with us as far as making corrections on on other lighting in the area and I I don't have any problem with cooperation. Everybody's been great. I just don't want to see it get any
worse. Yeah. We've we've taken a a residence that basically should have been condemned when it was purchased. Okay. And you guys are getting well you not you guys but the town is now getting $8,400 a
year in taxes out of us every year for improvements that we've made on the home. Yeah. I Well, I I think uh we could assume Mr. Murray had his word in that he would not increase the lighting. I He has no plans
to Mr. Alan. Is that correct? Do you have an office in that building? I do. Yes. stop over and have a cup of coffee and you can you can talk about it all. Absolutely. And and that's the best way to solve any of these neighborly. I I would rather go and sit and talk to
the gentleman than than you about it. I don't need any more stuff. I know. I know. I hear you. I hear you. I don't want my wife to find out about the opportunity. Put your stuff in storage and don't pay the bill. You'll get rid of it. I think it is. That's a good way to get rid of
everything. That'd be the cheapest way to get rid of anything, wouldn't they? No more dumpsters. I don't think anybody wants an eviction there. That's a really difficult road for And I'm sure at this point these people are just, you know, it's a tough spot to be in, right? Yeah.
So, are we comfortable closing the public hearing now? Make a motion to close public. I'll second the motion. Second by Jamie. All in favor? I. Unanimous. Let's take it up. Let's take it up. Do we my my question is do we need to approve something
that's do we all agree or disagree that it is authorized by the interpretation of the bylaw? Well, don't we that's our job is to decide whether this is effectual or whether we can overturn the decision of the bill inspector who has
held that this is what it says in every application that doesn't come into doesn't fit in the same box. Oh, that's right. It's an administrative appeal. It's administrative appeal. So, the board needs to vote on whether you want to uphold the building commissioner's letter or overturn it.
I missed to allow the use. I'm used to issuing special permits. I apologize. The motion in the positive would be to uphold or to overturn because that's what they're asking us to do. The requesting you to overturn it. So, in the positive would be that we overturn it.
We vote in favor of it. We would overturn the letter of the building inspector. Okay. because we're in favor of their petition. Correct. Sound an awful lot like a motion. Jenny, I will make a motion. Let me just make sure I get the right address here.
Bring it up on the screen. I mean, honestly, this is the the job of the board is to say, does this fit the way it's intended? And Jose's hands are somewhat tied because he has to say specifically, this is what I see. And our job is to say in this case it is
or isn't applicable. That's that's what we're here for. Mr. Chairman, before we have five brains, six seven. Mr. Chairman, before you make the decision, I just want the applicant to know should you should the board approve uh the auctioneer business, they will
have to other than the business certificate that they want me to sign, uh they have to apply for a change of use, maintain use with the building department. Okay. Okay. What? Not the zoning change of use, just business use.
Change of use, maintain use based on the existing building code. Any assisting B building or business that go through a change from one use to the other has to uh conform to the codes as the most current codes which is the 2021 building
code of the state of Massachusetts. What are we changing from? What are we changing to? His primary business is storage. Either way, that's why it's called maintain use, change of use. It's all about safety protocols. Oh, so it can be maintain or change of use. Yeah. Okay. So it could be taken as
a maintaining the the standard use which I don't know why we have to say we're doing what we were doing before but I say that just just to make it just to so that the applicant understands that they don't get surprised when we hand on them the uh application to file for a
change of use maintain use but he's not changing use but it's also maintain use okay it's ch change of use slashmaintain use thank you Steve so That second half is I'm doing what I was doing. Still will reapply to the building
department to maintain the use. Is that clear as mud? I guess the but it is a maintain right. You're not ent you're not saying he's changing. He's saying it's changing. Well, as long as Mr. Halen understands what he's asking the name of the form. It's just whether he needs a building certificate to sign
off on that's the goal. the use warehouse. They will put that and then proceed with proceed with his applying for the auctioneer certificate as he was with the with the go. Yeah. Yeah. Before the select, right?
Thank you. Thank you. What it takes to start a business. Oh, Jimmy. Yes. I'm sorry. I will make a motion as soon as my 1654. Uh, I make a motion to approve 6163
Middle Sex Street for the administrative appeal under zoning bylaw section 195102 for the inability to conduct to um overturn the admin uh to appeal the uh building commissioner's determination of
um the abil denial to conduct auctions on the premises. So does the board want to add in that it's an accessory use to the warehousing as it is deemed an accessory we find we deem it as an accessory use or that
based on do we want to go maintained use even yeah a maintained use accessory use auxiliary use auxiliary use to warehousing right auxiliary use to warehousing so there were a lot of words said I just
want to make sure I Understand we are overturning the if a vote a vote in the positive is to overturn the building commissioner's decision to deny auctioning at the site. Yes. To approve the administrative appeal. You're
thereby overturning the building commissioner's determination. Okay. Right. This always messes me up. I know. And do we also have to put something about applying for the No, I think that was justformational. Yep. That's an FYI. I second. Second by Stephen.
So all in favor of overturning the building in commissioners decision to deny the application. I is unanimous. None opposed. Thank you. Good luck with everything. You're welcome. Thank you.
Appreciate your patience with the process. Greg, I will follow up with the Do you have a mailing list for your auctions? And I'll follow up with all that paperwork. I do. Please don't give it to my wife. She has like a list of all. That was cute. That was good. That was good.
She has a fetish for tables. She'll buy. If there's a table for sale, she'll buy it. No minutes. Right. No minutes. I apologize. I've fallen behind. So, with no minutes, I think a motion to adjourn in the next meeting. Just before you do, if that's okay, just to reiterate, there
is no meeting in August. You've all decided to take your summer recess for the month of August. The next meeting is September 4th. Okay. September 4th. Okay. Yes. Thank you all. Enjoy your summer vacation. The motion to adjourn. Jamie. All right. The late one.
Grandkids are coming from Seattle.