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limited to statements from the public relating to any issues with the jurisdiction of the chumpsuit zoning board of appeals that are not currently the subject of a pending public hearing before the zoning board of appeals. Public comment on any pending public

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hearing shall be heard during such public hearing and may be limited to three minutes. So at this time going to open it up to the public. You have something to say about board of appeals. Let's hear it. Do you want to say something?

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>> Yeah, we were just talking. >> No, go to the podium, please. Your name, your name and address. >> Oh, okay. >> Three minutes. >> That's all I have. >> Okay. >> Hi, my name's Barbara Godlooi and this is my husband, Peter, and we live at 18

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Smith Street. And what we're concerned about is that u building um construction up top up up there with >> You know what? That that's on the meeting today. I I thought it was other road construction or something. So the public >> you can't talk about the the thing yet. It's not open.

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>> I I don't I'm sorry. I don't understand. I thought >> I thought you were going to talk about something else. >> Oh no. Does this have to do with the construction of what? Oh no. This is about the construction of the >> height. They have to present everything and then you absolutely will have a

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chance to come up and speak. >> We'll talk first and then you can talk all you want. >> Oh, I'm so sorry. I guess I guess I I'm guess I'm different. You're [laughter] the wrong part. Wrong timing. Yeah, you're fine. You're good. So, >> we do we do in the beginning of the

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meeting, we allow anyone to speak about anything that's not currently on the agenda. >> Oh, I see. I see. I I I apologize. >> Not a problem. And then we'll go through the agenda items and when that particular item is opened up for public input, then you have an opportunity to come up and speak. >> I see. So, particular item

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>> when it's that time of bars and we'll get up there. >> Yes. I apologize, Chair. >> Perfect. >> Okay. Since our public's not done, uh, we have a new public hearing. One Smith Street, CHA, Chumps at Arms, Choice,

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Housing Opportunities for Integration and Community Endeavors, Choice, and SCG, Development Partners LLC, are requesting a comprehensive permit pursuant of MGL chapter 40B. The proposed redevelopment

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of the Chsford Housing Authority site shall include the demolition of all existing units and the construction of 96 new units of senior 62 plus rental housing. All of the units will be affordable.

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>> Do we have anybody to present us name and address for the record, please? David. >> Uh good morning. Good morning. Good evening. Uh my name is David Hison. Um, our address is 10 Wilson Street, Chumsford, Mass. Um, I'm the executive director of Choice Housing. I served as

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the director of the Chelmsford Housing Authority for 32 years and was there for 38 years. I transitioned over just to be, um, the director of Choice Housing. So, um, this development, Chelmsford Arms, at one Smith Street, um, back in 1994 when I started as the executive

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director, I entered the building and it was built back in 1969. It was an orange orange hallways, harvest gold walls, avocado green appliances, and I said back in the 1990s, I really want to see this place renovated. Um, it's now 2026,

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and I come to you tonight after we've presented to town meeting um, and received an award of $2.6 6 million from community preservation because our hope is to see finally see the site um

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redeveloped from 64 units of state public housing to be replaced with 96 units. Currently the site um as you drive by it or see it, there are two residential buildings that are two stories each with a thirdf

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flooror attic. Those twostory um 32-unit each buildings do not have any common space for the residents. All laundry must be brought over to the community building and it's a building that doesn't work any longer for the seniors and we have over $20 million of work that has to get done as state public

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housing. Um it's we will never see the funds needed to renovate that building properly. So the option is the state says if you're able to come to us with the plan that increases the density of the site, we will be able to give you

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the funding needed to replace the 64 units of public housing and the funds which has to be at least 50% so 32 additional units to the site to make it 96. We will give you the funds necessary to make this project feasible. So we

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looked at the site and we were able to it's a tight footprint. So, I'll just say it's 9 40 64 units being replaced with 96 units. Um, it's going to be all over 62 years of age. People will ask the questions, what is choice and what is SCG? Um, I'll just say this to you.

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We are no longer building public housing. In order for us to build this new site with 96, let's keep this one up for a bit and I can show how beautiful it is. In order to build these 96 units, there's going to be about $25 million which will be in the form of like the

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CPC funds. It'll just be like here are some funds from the state. Then the other $25 million will be in the form of tax credits. A housing authority is not in the business of paying taxes, nor is

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a nonprofit like Choice. So, the housing authority has an affiliate, Choice Housing, which is a 501c3 nonprofit. We receive these tax credits and we have to partner with someone who can use those tax credits. That's SCG. So, it's

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a way for us to utilize the $25 million we'll be getting from the state in the form of tax credits. All said, we're going to be somewhere in the range of $64 million. I say 64. By the time this happens in three years, it could be 68.

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It could be 70. So, this is the site here. I think most of you are familiar with the location. Um, we have decks that have needed to be replaced for over 10 years. We have original sliders on the building that, you know, I installed back in the 90s, an additional slider for energy efficiency. So, when a resident tries to

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go out to the deck, they have to go through one slider, there's a big divot and another slider. So, it's a building that needs love. Um, and we've done a lot of work at the site, but a lot of work still needs to get done. And we're hoping in the next three years, this

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project will be funded and ready to go. Um, we'll go to the next slide. Now, there are a number of places like when people come and look at Chelmsford Arms, they'll say, "Wow, this is amazing. This is a great building."

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because in comparison to some of the public housing that exists in the state of Massachusetts, this is in great shape. As far as the portfolio that we have here in Chelmsford, it is the saddest, oldest building we have. So instead of waiting till the building falls into the ground or we have to

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actually condemn it, um we are going to be more proactive than some communities and we're going to go after the limited funding and we've already received permission three years ago from the state to transfer it and put it into the name of choice. So we've already

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received the 2.6 million from the town. We've already received permission to move this over to choice. And now we're going to look at how can we represability over at one Smith Street. How can we improve this the safety and accessibility? How can we address a

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falling infrastruct failing infrastructure? And how can we really provide affordable housing for the seniors in Chelse, you know, for today, but hopefully for the next 25 to 40 years. The proposed development, um, I'm going to take a

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pause for a minute because I get really excited and I might forget to say a few things. McFarland Manor, Delaney Terrace, and Chelmsford Arms. Delaney Terrace is the white building behind the senior center because there's three over there, but the white one is public housing.

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McFarland Manor, that's public housing. Chelmsford Arms, as it is today, is public housing. If we have a vacancy in state public housing, we have to go to a waiting list. That is a waiting list that is statewide. So someone who lives

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in Fall River, someone who lives in River, someone who lives in Lawrence, someone who lives in Chumsre, someone who lives in Berka could all be applying on the same day. But if the person in Fall River has a worse situation or a higher emergency, they'll be offered the

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unit up in Chumpsford before someone from this community. So public housing over the last seven to 10 years. Hi. Public housing over the last like say seven years has really transitioned from housing for local for the local community to housing for the residents

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of the state of Massachusetts. So it has become more and more challenging for in my role as the housing authority to continue to house local people. So, as Choice and the CHA built places like North Village, the Choice Center, when

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we did Richardson Road, which was formerly Briana Lynn on Richardson Road, when we did um buildings like that, those waiting lists for those buildings are not statewide. People from anywhere in the state can apply, but they really it's really a local resource where

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people who are interested go to the office or they take the application for that one development. So the majority of the other developments that we have that are not state public housing are I'd say 90% of the people that are moving in are Chsford people. We may have a local

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preference that says well it's a local preference that is applicable to all affordable housing that's really built in Chsford or in a community. A decision would usually say as you know as the law permits up to 70% of the units shall be offered to local residents. Local be

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being like live or work in the community. But I will say for the long term we're probably going to see a better outcome for Chelford residents wanting to stay in Chelford at these 96 units instead of the 64 units that are there today which for me is a big win

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for the community. um the 96 units that will be built um 64 um will be replacing the public housing. The 64 people that are living in those units have

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a full guarantee for another housing unit while they're displaced. So today is June 4th, 2026. I do not believe we'll be tearing this building down until most likely sometime

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after January 2028. In the next 6 months to nine months, we will be saying to the state, state, we're requesting permission to no longer lease any of these units. as someone passes away or someone moves to long-term care or if a unit opens up at

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Delaney Terrace or unit opens up at McFarland Manor or unit opens up elsewhere, we want to have the right to move whoever wants to move at this time out of their Chelmsford arms unit to another unit of similar cost in the town of Chelmsford.

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They did that with McFarland Manor. I don't think anyone here heard someone that was at McFarland Manor end up homeless on the street or somewhere that was not safe for them. The goal is to be able to relocate all the residents. We pay for their moving costs. We pay for

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their packing costs. We pay we pay for their um unpacking. We pay for the reconnection of electric or cable. We take care of all their expenses. And I say we meaning state public housing. There's a fund for relocation for which we have to comply with.

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So that is required of us by law for relocation. So I don't want anyone to worry that we're going to put people on the street. It's not our job. It's not our mission. It's not what we do and it's not our intention. Um um trying to think of anything else I

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wanted to present before I get too far out. Anything else I was supposed to say team? >> No. [clears throat] >> Um so we already had a couple one thing had already happened. We had um a meeting for the abutters. Um we had

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advertised that. Um and I will say thankfully or not thankfully like we remain open to hearing concerns. Um our position has always been before we come to the zoning board, we want to give the neighbors the chance to let us know what your concerns are, what are your fears,

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what are your what are your concerns? We want to take this into account. Um we didn't have any of us show up to the meeting. Um which was, you know, which is interesting, but it's not a oneshot deal. Like we're happy to remain engaged. Um we anticipate this project

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starting sometime in 2028. Um wrapping up in 2029. Um when we start demolition like any other developer like that takes down a building, we have to take precautions. Whether there are any materials, dust, whether there are, you

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know, pests, um we have to have um a plan in place to remediate and address all those things. And because there were also state funds and federal funds involved, we fall under also additional scrutiny at those levels. So, we're

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committed to Chamsford um being a good neighbor and even if it's not tonight, we'll remain engaged with you and promise we'll be there for you. >> I promise. Okay, I'd like to pass this over. So, as part of our team, so when we put together a team, we take people

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that are highly um they're experts in doing this stuff. I can't get an architect that hasn't done the multif family before in a community. We um retained um SV design uh Stephan Obaso. Stephan Obaso is um someone that I care

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great a great deal about. He builds housing for a number of nonprofits um throughout the state of Massachusetts up in the Northshore, also South Shore, I'll say in Massachusetts. He cares about the people who are going to live in the units. He cares about the communities he builds in. And we went

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through a process of we could pick who the architect was unlike the architect at McFarland Manor where the state assigned someone. So we did um a process and we ranked um Stephano's firm SV Design as um the top firm and I'm

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excited to have him present [clears throat] tonight. I'm also happy to um share I have Don Rose from CHA companies and it was like the worst company name I could have chosen because he's always says I'm Don Rose from CHA and I'm like you can't say that because

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CHA is Chelmsford Housing Authority but he's Don Rose from CHA companies he's the engineering firm he's civil he's all things site related he has been with us on Chelmsford Woods Chelford Woods one Helena Crocker and Westford he has been with us on projects throughout in other

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communities in the He is someone when I call and I say, "I don't like the pitch of the driveway. When things melt, there's black ice. If this ever happens, I'm going to like it's I'm going to be really concerned." He like, he knows like what my concerns are, where catch

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basins are going to be because I don't want an elderly person getting out of their car and you with a cane going down a catch basin. >> So, he knows like he knows everything. Like, he knows how tough we can be on projects. But the thing is, I sleep better at night because Don Rose is on

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these projects. Um, we have Melissa Robbins here who has no slides to present tonight because I'd rather have her just be around for the next meetings when it comes to um terms or conditions. Um, but Melissa has been with me on all

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these projects. Um, she's I mean, I consider her like a family member because she cares just as much as I do about what we do in this community. Um, and so who was up next? >> I'm cutting. I'm going to speak. I lied. I'll be around. I'm not muted. >> After that introduction, I feel like I

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have to speak. Uh, good evening members of the board. For the record, Melissa Robbins from Ferrell Robbins. Uh, just briefly about procedure. Uh, you may wonder why we're here under Mass General Law Chapter 40B. And it just boils down to there is no local bylaw that really

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fits uh creating senior affordable housing in the town of Chsford. Uh, we have an existing site out here. when we were trying to consider what process we should go through. That's why we're going through Mass General Law Chapter 40B. Um, but unlike your other 40bs that you've dealt with before, this is not

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just going to be 25% affordable. This is going to be 100% affordable and it's going to be affordable at a much lower level. So, this board is used to seeing affordable at 80% of the area median income or 50% of the area area median

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income. As you can see on this slide, uh this project will be at 30%, 50% and 60% of the area median income. Um and it's below 60% that is truly affordable. So when people talk about actual affordable, what people can afford when you're considered um below market value,

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that's generally what they're talking about is below the 60% AMI. Uh procedurally after this board, if they grant the comprehensive permit, we will go back to the state. Yes, we will have to get funding. Uh but then you'll see very similar documents at closing that you generally see with a regulatory

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agreement so you can ensure that these units will go forward in perpetuity uh with affordable levels and also um the local preference that David cited uh that would also be part of the agreement. So you can make sure that 70% up to 70% of these units would be um

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available for initial local preference to Chsford residents or Chford employees or whatever the designation of this board would be. Uh, with that, what I'd like to do is turn over to Don Rose, and he's going to go briefly through some of the civil aspects of the site.

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>> Thank you very much. I'm Don Rose from CHA uh engineering firm. As David discussed uh the reasons for the project, why it's needed, um I'm here to describe the improvements of the site. Um first, as you could see in one of the

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previous slides, the footprint is very similar. Um, yeah, it's a slightly bigger building. We have more units that's needed, but generally we're not further back in the property uh than uh for the proposed development. Um, a very

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important piece is we are actually adding a vegetated buffer [clears throat] at the front today. You've got the just little half moon drive and you just see the buildings here. We're proposing a vegetated buffer that shields. We know we're in a

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residential area. We want to present something. Uh the building will be beautiful, but we also want to it's a residential area. We want them to know that there's some greenery up the front. Um the project site circulation. So we

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worked early on um with SV design and with the fire department. So what you have are three curb cuts. The first one from Steedman Street is a one-way in. Um, and obviously the whole circulation

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has been designed around fire apparatus being accessible, not for all three of those. Um, you come one way in and it accesses some parking to the right and then the further parking in the back of the property. The next middle um curb

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cut is for some handicap parking and some parking up front, but also for a drop off, knowing that that is um almost required at all these projects now is having a drop off zone for uh the affordable housing projects. Um and then

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the last one is a two-way um curb cut. That's your exit from the site. Uh it again accessible for a firet truck that gets you to most of the parking out the back. Um and speaking of parking, this is the parking we're proposing 77 spaces

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is an increase from today. Uh that um I think there's only about 50 spaces on the site today. [clears throat] The new site also has um programmed areas for residences. what David talked about in um will be talked about later

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by architecture Stefano is interior spaces but exterior spaces we're looking at garden beds um uh a dog park potentially you never know if that's going to go forward but that's what we've programmed on the space and

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multiple um areas for congregation there's a couple of patio there's a patio up the front and potential patio areas in the back which will be vegetated it around so that you've got sort of a serene space in this area. Today, if you go to the site, it's just

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wide open. There is a, you know, a couple of areas to sit in for uh lunch or something like that, but it's really the sun beats on you. There's nothing else out there. Um there is a slight increase in impervious

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area on this uh which is needed for the parking but um there is a reduction of impervious within the um environmentally sensitive areas. We've got uh a 100 foot buffer and riverfront in the back there. We're

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tributary to Blackbrook in the back itself. And we've already been through conservation with our first meeting um introduced in the project. They are waiting for storm water review which we just received um to go further into that process. But we proved to them that

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we've reduced the impervious almost uh 2,000 almost 3,000 square ft in the riverfront area. In addition to that, um the storm water design on the project meets or exceeds both mass DPS and the Chumsford uh storm water regulations.

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We're providing additional treatment that it does not exist today. Uh it's essentially catch basin to catch basin to an outlet that then eventually discharges to the brook. We're adding an underground system that treats for TSS phosphorus removal and and introduces

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recharge on the site that does not exist before being discharged in slightly larger storms. So we hold at least the two twoyear and then after that discharge as you know with storm water treatment it's really the first flush that you need the first initial inch uh

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of water that runs off is where most of the contaminants are. So we are exceeding what is required by both state and local regulations. The water system we worked with the water department obviously everybody knows there is water construction going on right now. We made a call to them to

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coordinate uh how this should be handled. Looping the water man, providing two hydrants on the site again for fire protection but also for the water system to create a loop that will there's no dead end traffic. We provided a traffic memo in

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your package and generally there is an there is a slight increase less than 10 uh trips per day um in peak. So, it's not a high traffic use in general, and it's not going to get really any worse

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with this development. Uh, and then, like I said, we have the review comments as, uh, we've talked about, we'll be responding to them, uh, written comments, and we'll be making some small plan changes. There's not significant in there. We don't see any uh, showstoppers. And that's generally it

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from the site perspective. And I'll turn it over to Stephano for architecture. Thanks, Everybody, Stephan Obaso with SP Design, office at 126 Dodge Street in Beverly. Um, when we're looking at the site planning process, um, generally we're

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looking at the context of the site. Um, so in an urban environment, that might be setting a building right on the street, trying to create a street wall or a presence um, for pedestrians. And in a more suburban environment like this, we're focused on trying to reduce

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the mass of the building. Um so on this site uh one of the um techniques that we used was the Z-shaped form um allowing us to have the [clears throat] uh shorter end of the building closest to the street um and then corners of the

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building also facing the street. Um the uh the main entry is by the drop off area there in the middle. Um, we have a open lobby space um in front of a courtyard there and also a patio.

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[clears throat] Um, to the rear, as Don mentioned, uh, we have the outdoor seating area. We also have entrances around the sides of the site. Um, so for residents that are parking on the right side, they can come in a side door. Um, same with the back

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of the site. Um, we have a garage, uh, maintenance workshop type of area off the back back of the building. Um, and then the interior is a typical double loaded corridor. Uh, so these are all one-bedroom apartments. Um, we'll have

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10% of the units being affordable um, with some additional extra uh, >> affordable >> accessible. >> 100% affordable. 10% of the units will be accessible. >> Um, >> [laughter] >> Sorry, >> I'm changing things on you here.

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>> You are. I think that's not okay. >> Yeah. Um, so we have two elevator cores. Um, one from the main lobby, another one at the other kind of joint in the Z. Um, there's a laundry room on each floor, trash area, um, and some resident

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amenity spaces as well. So that might be a small fitness room, um, hair salon, uh, library study type of program. um up on the roof. Um you'll see more in the uh the elevations. So the building is sort of a hybrid of a sloped roof and a

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flat roof. Um we're taking advantage of the flat roof area for uh HVAC systems, so we won't have uh condensers and heat pumps on the ground. They'll all be up on the roof. Um also, uh space for solar panels up there. Um from the exterior of

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the building, you will see the the roof slope. So in this plan you can see kind of the perimeter of the building is that roof slope the roof slope which gives the u more traditional appearance and then we we have the flat space for um all the stuff that we need but don't really want to look at.

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And the building is uh mostly uh slab on grade. There is a partial basement. So under the main um lobby uh below the entry um that's where we're putting utility hookup. So, the electric service is down there, the fire protection system, um, and some additional storage

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down there. So, the front view of the building, um, we looked around the neighborhood, um, trying to get a sense of the the feel for the community here. Um, and the aesthetic of the exterior of the building was sort of, uh, I think, you

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know, quintessentially New England. Um, we went with a 12 pitch roof with some of the gable ends. So, um, try to mix in, uh, some variety of siding types. We don't want don't like buildings that are too busy with alternating colors. Um,

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kind of jarring. So, trying to keep it consistent, um, pretty neutral, but also adding some interest. Um, so the main, uh, longer runs of the building are a mix of, um, horizontal siding that could be shingle panels, um, and some vertical

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siding with a board and batton. introduced a little bit of a wave pattern there to give it um a little bit uh more of a dynamic feel. Um and then at the uh the more prominent corners of the the Z-shape of the building, we have the sort of classic white clapboard

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um uh end of the building, traditional proportions, uh dormers, and um additionally a roof wash there. So, while the building's a three-story building, um we want it to feel more like a two-story building with an

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occupied attic. So, the attic is heavily dormant. Um but hopefully, um still feeling more like a two and a half story traditional, more of a house sized building in terms of the vertical design. Um and then along the run of the building, introducing a mix of uh shed

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dormers that run across with the eve line facing out and then the gable dormers that come across. And you can see the uh the triangle of the roof pitch there. Adding um a standing seam metal roof uh for a little bit of extra detail and

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shadow line at the uh the roof washes and then some asphalt shingle uh roofing as well. Um I'll say the flat roof it would be like a rubber roof like a tpo roofing. Um so it would be white in

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color um which reflects sunlight and uh reduces urban heat island effect going around the building. Uh more of the same sort of look here. And then we won't spend too much time on the units, but um we included some

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typical uh one-bedroom unit interiors here. So we're still working through the interior design more than the exterior design. Um but just to give a sense of the the size of the apartments here. Um so they'll be better than the existing apartments. Obviously the state is uh

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pretty strict about uh senior housing guidelines. So there's a lot of minimum sizes that we have to adhere to in terms of um the size of each room and uh turning radiuses. Um so you know easy to move around for folks that are either in

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a wheelchair or have a mobility issue. Um and in terms of environmental um and energy code, the building will be h passive house certified um which means that it'll have a lot of insulation. Um all the HVAC equipment

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will be highly efficient. Uh the windows will be um very insulated as well, keeping uh solar heat game down and not letting heat out in the winter. Um we'll be bringing in uh fresh air to the units. So, we'll have um exhaust air

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and fresh air um through an ERV um energy recovery to help reduce uh energy consumption on site. Um so, we won't be wasting the air that we're expelling. And we went through some of the amenities. Um we do have interior mail

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and package room. Um so, the front drop off area will also function as a loading zone. So we have um a number of spaces that could be lined up there if we have different uh drop offs happening at the same time. Um so packages will be received indoors. Um there won't be

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anything outside there. Um in the lobby we have the large community room that will also have a small kitchenet um for uh resident service programs. Um there will be also um offices for uh staff on site [snorts]

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um property manager and uh for resident services as well. And I think I touched on the rest. Yeah, Don mentioned the landscape buffer. Um but I think it's maybe worth saying again that um you know this the

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screening of the building is important. Um, so we have a pretty strong row of uh street trees out front and then some uh sort of midsize shrubs as well. Um, so the building will be visible um, but it won't be um, you know, jarring or overly apparent. Um, set back pretty well from

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from the street. >> Jump back in. >> Yep. Um, and this slide is just in closing. I think that it goes without saying that this adds 32 units of affordable housing uh to the town of Chumsford subsidized housing inventory. It goes to a much needed population, your aging senior

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population, goes to the dynamic, which is a lower affordability level than any other 40B that's been before this board for a long time. Um, it's been very supported by the town. We have a very positive letter from the select board as part of our project eligibility application. and as David has said already have got some CPA funds to move

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forward. Um just procedurally I know the board generally w uh reads all the comments into record. I would ask that the board consider waving uh reading comments into record. The longest um comments I think you have are from DPW

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uh which we will be responding to in writing prior to the next meeting. I think um for those of you that have had an opportunity to read the DBW comments, [clears throat] I think uh they're all easily addressable. The one they took a hard position on was uh the waiver for sewer connection fee which we had

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requested as part of our 40B application. Um they are correct. So we will be withdrawing that waiver uh for the sewer connection fee. Uh we'll be paying that sewer connection fee. So uh as part of the final waiver list, you will see that that waiver will be

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withdrawn. Uh the rest of the DPW comments will be responded to with a mix of uh minor plan revisions and then maybe suggested conditions of approval if the board's inclined to approve. Uh that would be supported by your DPW prior to the next meeting. Uh the other

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thing that we didn't mention was that we also filed concurrently with your conservation commission. I think this board is probably used to seeing a lot of conservation waiverss as part of the application process. We are not doing that. Uh we're going forward through a

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standard um NOI process with your conservation commission. We've actually already had a meeting with them. Um our meeting was continued to June 9th, but we're actually going to continue that a little bit longer because now they've had an opportunity to review storm water, which is what they were waiting for. Uh so we've had a really great

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process with conservation and probably be um going into our last meeting the end of June. I think it's June 29th um with hopefully getting a order of conditions sometime in July. So that's been a very positive process. Uh the other board comments or the excuse me,

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department head comments were u minimal. Um and basically saying that um this is a 40B, so they don't really comment and if we had to do something else, we'd have to go to them, but we don't. Um and the rest of the waivers really fall into that department as well. I think if you've seen a 40B application before,

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you've seen all these waivers. It's to allow multif family development in areas where it's not otherwise allowed. It's to allow for dimensional relief for multif family housing where it's not otherwise allowed. Um, and then some of the waiverss just because we have an existing property doesn't mean that

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we're grandfathered under 40b. So even that we have more than 15% impervious. Just because we already do, we still have to ask for the waiver from this board even though um that's already pre-existing non-conforming. I won't be labor the waiverss any longer. I just wanted to make sure you knew that we

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would be withdrawing the sewer waiver and just ask that the board consider waving reading of the comments. Uh and then I'll turn over to the board. I think you've got a lot of information. We're happy to answer any comments or questions you may have. >> Um I I think we can uh take up your request and um if it's okay with you

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guys, we'll meet it at the next we'll read the all the all the all the concerns into our next meeting. But as now I think we should just start with questions. Do you want to go first? Danny, I'd like Danny go first because >> um I don't have any questions actually.

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>> You don't have any questions? >> No, >> I got a whole bunch. >> Glenn, please. >> Um I guess this one's for David. Uh so the people who are there living there now uh will be moved somewhere else at your expense.

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>> Uh >> yes. >> Do they are they guaranteed an opportunity to come back? Yes, they're guaranteed. They have the the right of return >> and guaranteed expense. >> Guaranteed expense paid. That's part of the requirement under both directions the funding. Yeah.

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>> And what type of heat is it going to be? >> Um, it's electric. >> Hold on. It's electric. >> Electric heat. >> Forced hot air. >> Yeah. Sorry. >> Yes. >> Electric hot air.

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>> Yes. It's electric forced hot air. I was thinking baseboard. No, it's not baseboard. Sorry. It's It's >> Each unit is probably individually with its own Yeah, >> sorry. You It's a So, the heating system will be a central heat pump electric heating system. Um so, there'll be

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outdoor units on the roof that will take the air um for heating and cooling. And then each unit will have its own control um with a ducted uh HVAC system. >> So, is it like a >> Yeah. Like that? >> No, not like that.

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>> No, it's central AC. >> Yeah, central AC and central heat. >> It's a So this single unit heat pump AC. Yes. Right. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Standard upgrade. >> Do you have any concerns? >> Uh, you know, heat pumps became very popular in the last few years and

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everything was hunky dory until we had a tremendous cold winter and they had in many cases I've read that they had a hard time keeping up. Um, do you anticipate any problems? >> No, because Chumsford Arms, we converted

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Chumsford Arms because it was all electric baseboard over to airsource heat pumps and it's been like that for over a decade and we've done well. Um, so I'm not No, I'm not concerned. >> Do you have any plans at all for solar panels?

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>> Yes, it's it'll be solar ready for the roof. >> It will be. But again, um, when we're applying to one of the one of the [clears throat and cough] requirements that I said to SV is I need it to be solar ready. The funding that we get like we it's not one of the line items we can put in our application to the

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state. So that has to be something we go for. It'll have to be designated funding for that. >> All right. And um, so the cooling will come along because it's a heat pump. >> Um, >> or they don't have that now. Yeah.

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Is there going to be any um uh um electric charging stations? >> Uh yes. Um we're required to put some in. We've already installed charging stations at McFarland over at North

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North Village campus and over at Chelford Woods. So it's our standard protocol to at least install I don't know how many what's the requirement? Is it 5% of the parking spots? >> Yeah. So we'll be um we'll have 20% of the total number of spaces will be EV

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ready. So that's pretty heavy. It's everything except putting the final charging head in. Um we have to install the circuit breakers, run the conduit with the actual wire and terminate. And then I don't know how many we'll have day one. Um >> we'd like to have at least like I would say a half dozen.

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>> So I'm saying like we'll be ready to have the 20%. But actually from day one we want to have like on all our other developments that we do we have at least um we always have some >> but the charging heads who would bear the cost of that >> it'll be like any other place will be the residents will have to pay for their

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electric >> I mean >> the installation >> no the uh you can run the power out to a post >> but then there's a head unit that that comes from the >> we we can install that >> you can install it but will it be a charge to the resident? Yes, it will be.

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[snorts] >> Any idea what the rate is? >> I mean, it's we have them right now at all of our I mean, most of our developments have them. Um, and we don't make a profit on them. It's more of a loss. >> What do you do if uh a resident who is

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eligible to relocate says, "I'm not leaving." What happens? >> So, you're saying, "What do we do if we say, "Mary, we're tearing the building down. you need to relocate. >> And she says, "I'm not going anywhere." >> We work with them.

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>> We muscle them out of there. >> I mean, quite frankly, we did this with McFarland Manor. >> We charm them. >> Yeah, we charm them. No, but realistically, >> I mean, we make it as like easy as possible for the residents and McFarland Manor. We had to relocate u over 40

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residents. Some would been there for like over 20 plus years and had 20 plus years of accumulation of things. So we don't we never we never pose to Mary that you need to move out next month. It's a process of meeting with Mary on a

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regular basis, preparing Mary, talking to Mary, addressing her concerns, her worries, her fears. And so because the manner in which we do it, we have a team of social workers and our resident supportive service team and homemakers that it's all like it's all in the

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delivery. I mean, we never want to scare anyone about what's happening. And I think, you know, because we were so worried about something like that happening, we started talking to the residents like 3 years before it happened and they were all like, "Just move us. Please stop talking about it.

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Just get it done." >> So, I mean, it's just it's I think it's the manner in which you go about it. >> Plus, they have the opportunity to come back, you said. So, that was one of my concerns. Yeah, that's great. And I mean the residents are like even now the residents all know about this happening and

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I don't I mean people have said you know we planted this rodendum or hydrangeanger that we got on Mother's Day you know like 10 years ago. We've already said to them we will we will dig that up and we can relocate it over to Delaney Terrace or McFarland Manor or to

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I mean we'll go to pretty extensive lengths to make people happy. >> All right. My my last comment is my most concious one and it's probably for Evan more than you is the sewage. Chood has a moratorium as you know on sewage.

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>> There's going to be more units. >> How is that being handled? >> Um >> with the town. >> I can have Melissa talk about the specifics, but a lot of these systems that have that have been put in at that site are much older in nature.

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um the toilets um >> and the [snorts] amount it's using and where we're moving towards is going to be much more energy efficient. So, as far as bathrooms to bathrooms, we're going to have more bathrooms. We had started a conversation with the DPW um

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three years ago. Yeah. In 2023 about this >> because I I looked I didn't see anything on the DPW comments about sewage. >> Yeah. And for any new project, it's usually based on the number of bedrooms, not the toilets or anything else. And

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you're increasing the number of bedrooms >> by 32 >> by a sizable amount. And maybe Evan can comment on how that's going to be handled. >> Let me let me hear what Yeah, let me hear what you have to say first. >> Yeah. >> So, you pointed it out properly. Uh, and

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that's one of the advantages of a 40B is that you can ask for a waiver of the local regulation much like we did for the last 40b project and then the DPW can make an opinion on whether or not there's capacity and either support the waiver or not support the waiver. And as you may recall for the last project I

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was here for, they did not openly support the waiver. Uh but for this project, because it's mostly considered a municipal supported use, and they think that there's plenty of capacity, they had no issue supporting the waiver as long as we paid the fee. Uh so they're in support of uh granting the

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additional capacity. It's going to be limited capacity necessary for the project. >> Thank you, Melissa. Y >> and that was a conversation we engaged in because that was like one of my first fears and concerns was how we were going to address that. And we engaged in a conversation about paying any kind of

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fee required. It's a like quasi municipal project. Um, and overall I'm just thrilled to see um the improvements as far as like water, sewer on that site and even storm water because working with um DPW

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like water goes into the catch basin. There is no there is it's from 1969 1970 and it's always been my concern and I brought the state out for over 15 years and said all that water from the roads

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daylights right next to you know Steman Street and it goes right into the brook untreated. This is a problem and I've raised this back to 2006. >> Thank you. Good. >> I'm good right now.

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>> You're good >> right now. Jamie, >> couple. >> Hey, Jamie. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Um, could you just elaborate a little bit on uh the the the relationship difference between it being a public housing and choice housing with the ownership

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maintenance costs >> and like how that how that's going to be different with the upkeep of the building and the you know the environment and just the whole life conditions, living conditions for the residents. Okay. So, as of right now,

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>> the Chston Housing Authority manages all of the senior housing that choice has developed. >> The choice has developed, not public housing. >> Right? >> Okay. >> So, so this is the thing. So, if you go over to North Village and behind the senior center,

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>> you will drive through the first building on the right as you drive through the circular is Choice Center to the back, >> right? >> That is owned by Choice. It was built um 16 years ago. Okay. >> And Choice owns it just like Choice will own this building. >> Okay. >> The maintenance staff are all Chumps

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Housing Authority employees. It's the same staff that goes into the public housing. It's the same staff that goes into um the choice center. As you turn or the corner, you are now looking at North Village. North Village has 50 units. That is 50 units. Um it has a

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subsidy that we get for every resident living there from the federal government. It's owned by Choice, but all the staff, whether it's maintenance staff or administrative staff or supportive service staff, they're all employees of the Chelmsford Housing Authority. The um Choice is the ownership structure. Choice does not

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have any property management. Choice does not have any maintenance staff. Choice has a contract 100% with the Chelmsford Housing Authority who provides services 24 hours a day for if there's any emergency. Um, uh, they do

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everything. So, it's an all-in. So, I think most people in the town of Chford have always like said, "Oh, that's all that's all the housing authority. It's all the housing authority." It pretty much it's all managed by the Chford Housing Authority. But the ownership structure, it cannot be owned by a

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government agency because these are private funds. The funds we're getting from the state as far as tax credits, housing authorities are not allowed to receive those types of funds. It has to be a 501c3 nonprofit that's received those funds. So, it was kind of like, and I always say this, back in the day,

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when we formed it in 2001, in 2001, the Chelmsford Housing Authority was sick and tired of not having any additional units for seniors. It was a 7 to 10 year waiting period. I saw other developments being built in Chelmsford by for-profit developers and nonprofit developers. I went to the state and I said, "I want

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some of that money. I can do a better job." And they said, "You're a government agency. You can't do it. We're not going to give you the funds." We went back to the office. We formed a nonprofit called Choice. At that time, it was called Chelmsford Housing, Opportunities for Generational and Community Endeavors. It now became

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Choice. We call it Choice. So, what would happen is they'd walk in the office or we'd walk out of the office. We'd put on a different hat and say, "Hi, we're with Choice a 501c3. We're eligible for X, Y, and Z." And they'd say, "Oh, yeah, you are. Here's some money. Go build some housing." And then

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you know it was a way just to you know get to the ant the have the whatever >> the get money. >> Yeah to get to the end. So but realistically is choice by being involved with this we generate a

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certain amount of income from doing this and then we put back in that money for services that public housing would never get. So over at Chelmsford Arms, over at McFarland Manor, over at Delaney Terrace, we expend we probably spend

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about $50,000 a year just for meals programs, for activities for they want money to put beds in for their for their vegetable raised beds that we have. We have a pet program that's going to have a mobile pet clinic. So we have I have

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Mary, Miss Mary. Mary, you better not be watching. Mary's had a dog and her dog is aged along with Mary and it's a low dog to the ground and the dog looks like it needs a bath but Mary can't do it. So we have a mobile choice is actually paying for a mobile groomer to come and

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help. So by walking both sides of the street let's say housing authorities doing what they do really well. They'll be managing the property the maintenance and it's the same team that we have. We have um nine guy nine people and two cleaners that go in. We have three

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people in the supportive service side. We have property managers. Um, so choice is really a vehicle to get the money that we want. So we drive the choice vehicle up, we fill it up with money, we build it, and then we give the keys and the contracts for management over to the

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housing authority. >> So who so who owned Smith building before >> the Chford [clears throat] Housing Authority? So the it was zoned public. >> It was built housing. It was zoned public. The land was is still zoned

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public. So back in the 19 late 1960s, Town Meeting gave that land to the housing authority. It was the first property they built. The state of Massachusetts had um the contract, it was like a contract, the contract of financial assistance, and it said, "You

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are to operate 64 units of housing. We'll make up the difference. If Mary pays only $300 a month and your costs are 650, we'll pick up the difference." Got it. >> Then when something broke, >> this is the thing you asked me. So now when something breaks, we have to say,

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okay, public housing gets $200,000 a year. We get $200,000 a year to fix anything at McFarland, fix anything at Delaney, fix anything at Chelmsford Arms, fix anything at Highland School, fix anything at Grten Road where it's a group home, fix a group home on Harding

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Street, um fix um some public housing on Mill Road. $200,000 for needs that exceed 17, we have documented $17 million of need within those public housing units and we get $200,000 a year. like we don't have

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enough to fix anything. So, what ends up happening is is we tell our maintenance staff, here's some bubble gum and some band-aids, you know, and and hopefully we'll get some money to bulldoze one of these places and replace it with the private building, a price say private

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meaning the choice car drives around, picks up the money, and then what happens is is the existing building here, Mary pays 300, the state pays 300 to get to our average operating cost of 600. Now under this what happens is

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let me go back 300 plus 300 we get 600. There are no replacement reserves. There are no reserves. So when something breaks there is no money to fix it right away. We have to like find a way to not do something and fix it. All of our other developments north village behind

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the senior center if you say to me David what's the what's the what's the reserve? How much do you have in the reserve at North Village? >> You want to know? Yes. We have a million dollars. I have a million dollars in the reserve. So, if that chiller breaks in the back or something breaks or

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something is broken, what do we do? We can get it fully fixed, which is how it should be >> because it's a choice building. >> Because it's a choice building and we're allowed to actually as a local a choice is allowed to create replacement reserves. And because those reserves, I

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mean, if we have surplus funds at the public housing, at the end of the year, if we have surplus funds, you got to give it back. We can't say, "Oh, no, we want to put that in an account. If something breaks next year, we want to fix it." They'll say, "Heck no. People over in LOL, people in Lawrence, they need it more than you." So, they cut our money.

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>> So, this is going to be like a more like it's how the real world works. Like, we're going to have funds and money to actually fix things. And the nice thing is is because the Chelms Housing Authority has about a thousand vouchers, when Mary pays $300 a month, Mary's

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going to move back to this new place. She's going to pay $300 a month still. But the difference we made up not by the state government, it'll be made up by the federal government. And they're going to give us not 300, they're going to give us closer to 700 plus for 300.

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So, we'll have money to put aside into replacement reserve and money to set aside for um resident services. So, like we'll have like normal maintenance and Mary won't say, "Oh my gosh, they're terrible. My refrigerator has been broken. They don't do anything." And

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then when I sit with the resident and I say, "This is the money we get. You know, we have to give you back like a fixed refrigerator, not a brand new one, because there's 80 other people like you and the state won't give us the funds." >> Sorry, that's a long answer. >> No, no, no, no. That's a good answer. I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a dollars person,

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so I I completely understand where where you're coming from. And that's I just wanted to make sure that was made clear to everybody the how this works because I understand 503C and how that >> and government funding. I retired military. So I definitely understand government funding as a as for sure. Um,

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as far as increased cost for utilities with uh the residents when you do these upgrades, what is their current uh electric their current heating uh source? Is it electric? Is it natural gas? >> It's it's currently all electric at Chel. >> So, they're already getting electric

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heating. >> Yes. And what just to tell you? So, we'll get into Louise a little bit. >> Let's say the total rent that we'd be allowed to charge >> the total rent. I'm giving you just an example. Let's say the total rent for a

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50% AMI unit is 1,200 a month. >> So they're going to pay 30%. Let's say they make 36. Let's say they make 3,000 of income a month. >> Um they're going to pay their 30%. All utilities are included.

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>> Oh, okay. If they're not included and the and we do it a utility allowance, I have to then reduce that 1,200 by >> $300. If that's the average cost for utilities, all electric, I have to

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reduce the gross rent to 900. She still pays 300, but the most we can get is, you know what I'm saying? >> 30%. >> Yeah. >> Got it. So, and the requirement for the 64 people that are being brought back, their rent cannot their rent and

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utilities cannot be more than what they were paying at the previous location. >> Okay. >> No, that's good. >> I love questions like this. [laughter] Give me weeds. I like [clears throat] >> um David, >> um do other towns have things like choice? >> No. >> No,

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>> they have choice. >> No, no, no, but >> literally like >> No. I mean, Carlilele has like some individual one-offs. Like there is like one development in Carile that I'm familiar with that also needs to be replaced. Westford, like we've been the

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go-to for Westford to do their affordable housing development. >> Um we're doing their town farm with 35 units. >> We operate in other Choice operates in other towns. >> We like Yeah, we totally do. Not just not in Chsford because the beauty beautiful thing about the Chumps Housing

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Authority is we've been operating in nine other communities for all the federal voucher programs. >> We have been operating on all for federal programs because like towns like Westford, Peril, Graten, Littleton, they don't have a federal housing program through their housing authority. >> So all of our federal resources when I

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say we have a thousand vouchers, I was talking to someone that works the LOL housing authority and I'm like we we actually secured 300 vouchers for homeless veterans. We don't have 300 homeless veterans in Chelmsford, but we control the resources for 300 veterans who are homeless and we're able to

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deploy those resources to the greater Chelmsford community, but we serve Chelmsford like first and then whatever we have we can share with others. So, no, there isn't usually another like I will say low community teamwork has

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common ground development. They go other places. Choice has always been like I'll say it I'm an overachiever like and I've always wanted to do more and we created choice. People say can we copy you and quite frankly a housing authority

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will never be able to get um a 5013 status for a nonprofit that they create because now the IRS says no like you're doing like the same like you you can't do this. So, we've been approached by um a number of other housing authorities

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and they can't replicate what we did with choice and we did it at a time that was fabulous and we're gonna and we always keep Chsterford a priority but we're not we're happy to help other places too. >> That's pretty interesting. Hey, what

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about um national grid? You sure going to have enough electricity there by 2028? >> Um so I'll say this to you. So, McFarland Manor, it was gas, hot water, um it was um baseboard, it was forced

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hot water, and we're going 100% electric there. They've upgraded. There was some upgrades recently already for the transformer. We're able to provide all electric to this building. >> Nice. >> So, I feel I mean, we're far enough out. >> Okay. Are they gonna the new power the

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power not that's sorry the power lines and stuff are they going to are you going to go under underground or is your plan to what's the plan for the power lines >> oh it's everything's going to be underground yes underground I mean yes I was thinking the power lines in the back of the property but that's not ours >> yeah just

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>> hey one last >> future yeah future builds and stuff this power line all over everything's so crazy and >> well right now so I will say at that site right now we have the community building The electric runs from the street into the underground of that

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central building and then branches out underground to the buildings. And I mean it's really bad. >> Hey, one last thing. It's probably not um not appropriate, but you ever think about putting a coffee shop in there?

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>> I'll tell you something. Um [clears throat] >> are you trying to find a place to get coffee? >> Yeah, I am. [laughter] >> Let me tell you this. Like I I love because I'll tell you like when we talk about like I talk about my seniors like what seniors do nowadays is so different when they what they did before like

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there are people that will say to me we're not going to the senior center but we'll go to Dunkin Donuts you know and we so we create like in this building we create some spaces so I've said to to Stephano and his team it's like I want like our puzzle room like I want smaller

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spaces where some people want to be ble to gather in a smaller group together. >> We have a larger space. >> Call it a senior center. You got to call it a job shop. >> Call it some what? I'm not going to I'm not going to maybe it's not appropriate, Mr. Ro say these things, [laughter] but

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but we're creating spaces at that building that are going to be for larger scale use. So, we're going to be able to like we have a toiletries program. We have um we have food delivery, we have grocery delivery, we have um fresh vegetables that get delivered for the

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residents at no charge. So we have spaces that are going to accommodate like ongoing activities for those that want to gather. I mean and if you meet someone Charlie that you want to hang out with, you can come over. >> It's not going to be I mean people have to buzz you in. Be >> careful what you ask. >> I know. [laughter] We will have to buzz

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you in. Um and you have to behave. >> I'm sorry. >> Stephen, we never met. I'm nice to meet you. >> Um, how do the sizes of these uh spaces compare to what's there now? >> Oh. Um, as far as common community space,

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>> no, like the individual >> living areas, units, >> like 20 over 20% larger. So, the apartments themselves, we're at 6 >> 30 something looks like >> 30 >> 670 674 675. >> So, we're going like we're at probably

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like 170 square feet larger. >> Okay. And these units are like built on an angle. So you enter the door, it's like all the units are like trapezoids. So you walk in and the door is like on an angle, the kitchen is at an angle,

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the walls are at an angle. They're horrible. Like the closets are at an angle. Like everything's at an angle in these places. So the space is going to be significantly larger. And it's actually going to be like So we always say like you never know. Like most people will say you're going to put all handicap units or more handicap units.

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Most people don't need fully handicapped units. They need units that when if they have a hip replacement, they're in a wheelchair for like three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, or have a walker that there's going to be like they can navigate through the doorways, have a turning radius, they want their cabinets under their sink. They don't want it

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like wide open. Um, but we have the ability in um a number of the units that will be fully handicap accessible, but all the units are going to be very accessible. We just went through an exercise today to make to open up the kitchens so we don't like so they're more open for the residents. So it's

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going to be like I can't tell you like night and day. People can't even get onto their decks at the current building like and when they do I'm afraid they're going to trip and fall and they're going to trip and fall on a railing that's not even up to code and they could fall through it. >> I don't anything's better than what they

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are. I used to I used to drive by that site every day for three years. Is >> there a pickle ball court by any chance? >> Oh my gosh. No. But I'm happy if you have an address of one, we can post it. But we're not doing pickle ball. But >> McCarthy's got that new pickle ball court. >> But the thing is we have money and we're

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going to actually support like choice will support like activities and it's like when residents raise like a desire like the residence is at Bigalow UMass West where Traml Crow is. We have a 50-unit permitted project that's under review. We're waiting for funding for $26 million. We're hoping we're going to

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get funding in the next 60 days, 90 days, and we'll be able to see something happening. Um, people asked for a botchi botchi ball court. >> I mean, it's not up to like official size, but we're looking at a botchi, but again, we ask the residents, what do you

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want? >> People may say botchi and then in five years they don't want botchi. They want something different there. >> Huffle board. They and we actually at one time Delaney Terrace in the senior center they wanted a garden a larger garden. We rotatilled like the lawn and we had a gu a huge garden there for

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years and then the person passed away we put back a guard I mean put back grass. So when EF Hutton talks we listen. So when the residents asked for something but a pickle ball court. >> Okay that's it.

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>> For a cannabis or a smoking area. We can't put a greenhouse on the roof. >> We can Well Well, we'll we can consider it. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> So, two more. Uh I see the first floor and the second floor plan. Does the third floor look like the second floor?

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>> Yes, it looks I guarantee it looks just like the second floor, but uh the third floor um common area space in the knuckle will have a different label to it. >> Okay. Uh and again, this is I guess procedural or mathematical for Evan. uh

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when this existing structure is demolished and technically [snorts] lose 62 units of affordable housing. Does that get taken off our books until 96 get readded

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two years later? Like are we going down to go back up >> to meet our 10%? >> Yeah question. Um >> our safe harbor. >> I just got a question. and let me take a shot at it and then >> briefly like the so as soon as if the board is inclined to grant the comprehensive permit these units will go

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on as soon as the town clerk stamps the comprehensive permit application >> even though we don't have occupancy >> you don't need occupancy you get to count them upon approval and so as soon as you get to the town clerk and you you stamp the comprehensive permit then

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there's a form that Evan fills out to EOHLC and then they're counted on the subsidized housing inventory and you're done. >> And I'm going to piggy back on to this as it's a group answer. um the the demolition we've had we've gone through this exercise like I was trying to

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figure out when the choice car pulls up to the state and says I need is it better if the site's vacant like all completely bulldozed and sitting vacant for 12 months or is there no benefit to it and we leave the 64 units occupied even if it's two

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people living on the site you know to keep those units on the inventory [snorts] as long as possible and Then we're not tearing them down until the whole contract is signed, which is demolition, you know, 45 days demolition and then immediate pouring of, you know,

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footings. And that way that we don't run that risk of oops, we >> did it again. >> Emptiness. >> So what's what's the result of that? >> I'm more inclined to go the route of maintaining the prop the buildings under one contract. So demolition occurs as so

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when you say >> close to poor. >> Yeah. So I mean it's 64 units on the on we're not the 64 units are being replaced. >> Yeah. >> And the the the it's 64 units are are being demolished and rebuilt. That that

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is what that's happening. So those 64 units I cannot eliminate. They're state public housing units and I have to recreate the 64 units. So part of the restriction, you'll get a regulatory agreement on this. It's going to have an amend addendum to it that's going to say

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64 of these units are considered state public housing units that you will get no money for, but we have to follow like the um follow for the most part income guidelines, asset guidelines, and treat these people special so they don't like

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lose their like we have to. So we're like I'm because we're team I don't want that to happen. I don't and I don't I don't >> appreciate it. >> My other question, um, >> you're going to start looking for or

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asking for priority placement. How far out? >> Oh, I already asked them. >> The state. >> Oh, the state to move people. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I >> like we know the waiting list is three years long. So, >> so I'll tell you this. I had eight units

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vacant and I told the state, state, I don't want to reoccupy those eight units. And the state came back to me and said in a very state-like fashion, um, oh no, you have to occupy those units. You have to reoccupy those units. And I said to them, I said, why? You're going

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to make these people move in two and a half years? Like, I don't understand it. They said, we have a new um, Secretary Augustus >> left. When I was having this meeting, Secretary Gus had just left and the new secretary came in and the policy was

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vacancies across the state of Massachusetts. We cannot have vacancies across the state of Massachusetts. David thinks he's special and can have eight vacant units. He can't. So, um I said, "Can we have a conversation again in

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January of 2027?" And they said, "Yeah, don't worry. So, we're going to ask again in January 2027 that we're going to not reoccupy any vacancies that happen and any vacancies that happen at McFarland, any vacancies that happen at

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Delaney Terrace will be first offered to people at Chelmsford Arms. The people at Chelmsford Arms have already been interviewed. They've already given their preference. Do they want to go to McFarland? Do they want to go Delaney? Or do they want to go to North Village

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or the Choice Center or Richardson? Um, realistically, I'm not worried about the the I'm not worried about having enough units for them to move over. Yeah, because >> Are you letting out a secret?

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>> I'm always going after money. I'm going always going always going after money. So, the Choice Center is now 16 years old. And because it's not public housing, it's owned by choice. After 15 years, in year 16 going into 17, I can go back to the state for tax credits.

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And I can say, "Hello, can I have some tax credits to redo the kitchens and baths?" So, this will hopefully start in 2027. And we'll start, you know, not filling the choice center. As we move out of

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Choice Center, we'll have some vacancies. By the time we're ready to finish the kitchens and bathrooms at the Choice Center and at North Village, we'll have a number of units that will be vacant. So, there's always like

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my mother always told me like I was the sneakiest little kid because I always kind of was plotting like when she was going to do something so I could like go with her. And so part of my job is like I want to make sure our residents continue to live in our community, not

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the community of Chelmsford, but the community of Chelmsford Housing Authority properties or managed properties because a lot of our residents are receiving supportive services from a homemaker. And that homemaker is contracted, you know, as part of all of our camp all of our developments. They can't go move into a

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private development on Littleton Road with a bunch of families and lose access to the homemakers that they need and the services they need. That's not okay for me. So, we are going to do everything we can when we meet with Mary first time, the second time, the third time. We're

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going to keep telling them, you know, if you have a preference, we're going to do our best to make that happen. So, believe me, I'm going to be a pain in the neck to the state to have them give us permission to not reoccupy after January. [clears throat] And if they say no, then maybe there's going to be a

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really bad capital need at the building. And if the capital need is so bad and they don't want to give me half million dollars to fix it, maybe they'll have to say, "You can't reoccupy it." >> Gotcha. >> Okay. Hey, does anyone from the public want to say anything? Ask a question? I

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thought you did. >> The questions were answered. >> Oh, very good. >> And I we're happy to I'm happy to talk with you anytime and we'll have a meeting again. >> Questions. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. And thank you for being here. >> Okay. Anyone from the board have any

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anything else to say? >> I think it's important for the community. Yeah, I was thinking we should go to 100 rather than 96, but >> I understand >> like I I literally went >> and we were looking. But you know, this

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is the thing like 96 works. I don't want to go outside the original like >> when you looked at it, you could see like I said, I want that the building to fit in the footprint of the existing buildings. I don't want to be too greedy

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to the neighborhood. I went to what I needed to do to get the matching state funds. Um, and we have really good community space. We kept some green space because we have very limited space there. I wanted outdoor space that's going to be shaded that they don't have

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now. I wanted a little area for their dog. You know, [snorts and clears throat] if that's what the residents want at the time, they don't might not want a little dog park. They may want [snorts] a kid a petting area for goats. I don't know. >> Llamas. Llamas.

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>> Yeah, they're big llamas. >> Well, yoga is good, too. [clears throat] >> No, but we do. So, we actually have a program for like we have exercise program that choice is paying for. We have people with they they get to drum on um those yoga ball like >> the sticks.

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>> Yeah. And like Home Depot orange things. There's like a whole We have >> all kinds of things. I'm always like this stuff has changed over 30 years. But so, um, if there's questions about design, like Steph, I don't anticipate Stephano being

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here in the future, uh, at the next meeting. I don't anticipate him being here for the next meeting. Um, but I'm happy to answer. I'll be I'll be around >> and I just want to say thank you. Thank you for volunteering to serve on this board. Um, and thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> You seem to be doing all the work. you >> I still love it and I'm still crazy about housing. >> I I appreciate your enthusiasm and dedication. It's not something we get to see a lot for our community and it's I know that's why a lot of us are here serving because of our dedication to the community and I love seeing it and

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people who come up here to present. So, [clears throat] thank you. >> I'll say no. I want to move in. [laughter] >> You're not old enough. >> I don't know if you're old enough. >> 62 and over. >> I'll be there before you are. [laughter] >> I'll be too. I'll be there before you are. >> Oh my gray. Yeah. Shave it off.

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>> And what would you like for community space? >> Pickle ball. >> My mom will be my mom will be moving here in about 5 years. And she loves goats and very large dogs. So as long as you can accommodate that in about 5 years. >> 25 pound limit on the animals unless there's service dogs. So if it's a St. Bernard that needs to bring her her

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beverages, maybe. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> There you go. >> Ali Anatolian Shepherd. >> Okay. Well, we're going to continue this, but before we do, we need a we need a a a date. >> July 9th is your next meeting. >> July 9th. That okay with everybody? >> [clears throat] >> All right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Mr.

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>> Chair, in the interim, we will respond to outstanding comments um all outstanding comments uh from all department heads that have commented and we'll make sure with Becky and Evan that we get any other outstanding comments. Um but then we would ask if we could work with staff to start drafting

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conditions. Um I think a lot of them will mimic what's in the DPW comment letter. Um is to the extent that we don't address them on the plans now, they could be conditions of approval. So that would be my only other request during the continuence. Okay. Have a drop decision ready for you, >> but the plans are pretty pretty well

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laid out. I went through most of it and it's there's a lot there. So, you look like you've covered >> everything pretty well. >> Okay. Made a motion. >> Uh, I make a motion to continue the public hearing for um >> Streetith Street. Can you do this real

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quick? Uh, >> make a motion to continue public hearing for one Smith Street until our next meeting on July 9th. Second by Jamie. >> Second by Stephen. >> Yeah. >> Steve. >> Any other discussion? >> Are we having a July meeting?

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>> Yes, July 9th. >> Yeah, we don't generally. No, we don't. >> No, not the one. August. We don't meet. >> It depends. >> Generally, >> but we are definitely meeting in July. >> Yes, >> we are now >> since Evan signed us up for >> all those in favor. [laughter]

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>> I on this. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. Good job. Okay, next on our agenda. >> Okay, can I just say bye >> when these guys uh get done saying goodbye. >> I called you and I know I know you can call extension 18 comes

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>> great man. Good to see you. Good to see you too. >> All the questions of course. >> Thank you Charlie. >> Good to meet you. >> Thank you. >> I'll get a fake ID. I'll make it work. [laughter] >> Okay. Brief interruption but we're good.

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Uh, next thing on our agenda tonight is a continued public hearing 243 Rivack Road. Um, they are reapplying for a comprehensive permit pursuing on chapter 40B. It consists of seven single family

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dwellings, 16 town houses, 23 housing units. Six units will be designated affordable. Uh, this property is located at RB and consist of 67 acres and they want to continue without discussion. >> I make a motion to continue the public

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hearing for 243 Riverneck Road until our next meeting. >> I got this one. I'll second that. >> Second July to July 9th. >> Yes. >> All those in favor? >> I I Okay. Um, we got the meetings meeting minutes. I I I know they were.

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>> Are you able to approve January and February? We're getting pressure from um >> to approve some of these. >> I haven't. I thought we did that last time. >> I think we did >> that. >> Want to do it again? >> Yes, we can do it again. >> Have a motion for January 8th.

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>> Anyone? >> I'll make a motion to approve January 8th. >> January 8th. >> Approval of amendments. >> Second by Peter. >> All those in favor of >> January 8th? All right. >> Right. >> And u in February 2nd >> fifth

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>> I mean fifth. >> I just want to double cuz that one we had to edit it. >> I thought we did both of those and you had comments on it. >> Yes, I did. I had comments on February 5th and I >> edited. >> Okay then. >> I think we didn't we didn't finalize the

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fifth. It had to be edited. >> Okay. >> You're voting on the edited? >> Yes. Give me one second. Because that was Riverneck. >> Yeah, that was the one at the senior center, >> right?

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>> Well, you remember what the edits were? >> Yeah. Um Becky had um some language in there about Ledge Road. >> Ledge Road attorney. >> Uh no, no, not Ledge Road. Sorry. Russell Road. Yeah, there was a >> there was a thing in there for Russell

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Road, but I thought it was in there in in the last um revision. >> I think it was in the vote. >> Yeah, the motion was I think it did get m um fixed because I think it was the motion by Brown close public hearing for

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Ledge Road. I think it said Russell Road I think there. >> Yeah. Okay. Everett Melissa Lawrence Allen Glen >> rep if he would help moderate

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deliberations between the two towns department he's willing to get involved at any level to help >> member expressing out how many economic factors amending I

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>> mean, you could do a control find and see if you Russell pops up. I don't think it does. >> Okay. >> Meeting eight motion post. Did this and this was the one where Oh, here it is. Executive session. I don't see it

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meeting. >> No, I think it looks good. >> Property located residential ZBA. I think to >> a motion Jamie. >> I make a motion to approve um the meeting minutes for February 5th, 20126.

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>> Second. >> Second. All those in favor? >> I >> I think Steve can vote or >> Yeah, Steve wasn't [clears throat] there. >> Yeah, Peter wasn't there. It's only us. >> Charlie, Jamie, Glenn, Rodney, and Danny. >> Yeah. Y

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on that one. Damn it. Why' I come? >> Why did you come? >> Why did you come? >> So again, >> anyone else want to say anything? >> We'll have an end of the meeting discussion. >> We need to revote with the appropriate

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people to make it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You want to? Yeah, we should. Just for a >> Who's motion like you? >> I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes for February 5th. >> Second. >> Second. All those in favor?

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four of us. >> Okay. Okay. Heaven. >> Okay. >> I think we're almost done. >> I don't know. I think because we'll wait for conservation maybe. >> So May 7th. I cannot vote on May 7th. Or if we want to wait, but that's Brian,

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Charlie, Steve, Peter, and Glenn. >> I I did not I did not read that. Okay. >> Do we Do we need to approve that tonight? Kevin, >> you don't need to. >> Okay. >> Thank you. covered the >> Yeah, I was not there for >> Mason. Okay, >> I was not there. >> Let's postpone that to our next meeting.

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>> Okay. >> On July 9th. >> Anything else on the agenda? >> Just have a question. >> Yeah, sure. >> Um on the previous uh article, uh we voted to continue it. >> Right. >> And why is this?

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>> Because they have um things to fix at the responses. Department of Public Works >> DPW wrote like a 15-page dissertation they have to respond to before we can even improve it. >> Okay. Let's say that they get their answers in in a week. >> They shall.

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>> Then can we bring it forward faster? >> No. >> No. >> We've already to the 9th >> because it has to be an open it has to be an open meeting. >> Still have an emergency meeting. >> We have to be announced at time to the public.

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>> Three weeks, right? Yeah. time >> because the time is of the essence to get those units >> approved regulated by time is of the essence but it's 2028 before they really start >> ground that's not what it's about

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>> it's not >> we just meeting that >> I would have pushed >> for an approval if if >> conditional approval of some type >> but you're good you're fine >> okay I didn't realize that >> you were at the meet you were at the >> yeah I I sought clar clarification from

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councel um after that uh executive session meeting. So we're good. >> Okay. >> So we can't change it. >> We can't we've already continued it to the ninth, >> right? >> I must I don't know what happened yet.

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>> Oh, is that the one from Monday? >> Okay. Yeah, I wasn't there. >> I was in Texas. >> I'm a single with three, so I'm a oneman show with three kids. I couldn't make it. >> But anyways, are we we get them >> all adjourn? I make a motion to adjurnn.

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>> Make a motion. >> Did we close the hearing? >> No, no, no. We continued. >> We continued both. So now we're making a motion to adjurnn. >> We've continued both. >> Yes. Make a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make >> No, >> we don't need to a second. We just He just says

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>> all in favor. >> Motion is adjourned. That was a