Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, this is a meeting of the Chelsea Licensing Commission. Today is Thursday, September 11th, 2025. Um, I am joined this evening by my fellow commissioners, Mike McAteer,
Emily Churniaak, and Alexandria Christmas. Um, myself, Marty McAlpine. We have our licensing clerk, uh, Naomi Libron. We also have be from the licensing department and Sergeant Chung representing the Chelsea Police
Department. Um, thank you folks for joining us this evening. Um it will hopefully be a fairly quick meeting. Um we just have some other business to talk through that will take a little bit longer. Um but we will keep things
moving right along. Uh the first item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from the August 14th, 2025 meeting. Um, and before I ask for a motion of approval, if I could just ask my fellow commissioners to turn their microphones
on, that would be fabulous. Thank you. Can I get a motion to approve those mo minutes? >> A motion. >> And a second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. Uh, next we have a clerk's
update. Miss Naomi. Well, um, so the marijuana licenses expire September 30th, and I need a motion to approve, uh, Western Front, Chelsea Bud, Rise, Harper House Collective, and Trinity
Naturals, uh, marijuana license renewal. >> Um, so we need a motion to approve the annual renewals. And all of these have turned in all of the completed paperwork. >> They are completed and they're paid for. >> Wonderful. Can I get a motion to approve
those annual renewals? >> I make a motion to approve those annual renewals. >> And a second >> second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I Naomi, a quick question. Do we have five that are active? >> Correct.
>> Okay. Didn't we have one point had six? >> We have one more. >> Okay. One more. >> Nobody has applied. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> That was the one that was out and then never y took place. >> Okay. And then communications.
>> Uh communications is just um letting um the public know that the liquor license renewal pro season is going to begin. I'll be sending out notices in se uh around September 16. I'll be sending notices to all the liquor
licenses and also uh the amunes and entertainment license renewal and the common particular license will be renewed also. They all expire December 31st. >> And you need all of that paperwork or online process completed by what date?
>> November 17, I believe, or November 14th. Whatever Friday that is. >> Perfect. >> 14th. Yeah. Um, anything else from the licensing department? >> No, that is all. >> Thank you very much. Um, before we move
into the public hearing on the agenda, uh, just a matter of housekeeping to make sure when you come up to speak before us, uh, you step up to the microphone, you share your name um, and your address uh, before speaking. And if there are multiple people speaking at
the same time, please each step up to the microphone so that way not only we can hear you but anyone listening um either on the Facebook live video or um on the community um community cable
station, they're able to hear you as well. Um, with that, um, our public hearing on the agenda tonight is to consider a change of hours from Sunday through Saturday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. to Sunday through Saturday, 11:00
a.m. to 1:00 a.m. on an al all alcohol beverages license application for Eliosco Corporation, DBA, Eliosco, at 212 Broadway in Chelsea. If you could step up, please.
Chair President, I I vertly forgot to add uh amusement and entertainment also because that goes together. >> Okay. Um so they're also um applying for the change of the music and
entertainment license to also go um until 1:00 a.m. >> Hi. >> Hi. My name is Judy Korea. Is it on? >> Hello. Okay.
>> Hi, my name is Judy Korea. Uh, two, two, Bro and Chelsea. >> Thank you. >> Hello, Dora Miranda. I'm here helping her uh interpret for her. >> Wonderful. Thank you. Um, so tell us a bit about why you are
requesting this change in ours. She's um stating that the hours feel like they're very um minimum right now due to people working late hours and when she's about to close, she has people at the door wanting to eat and
she feels that uh implementing more hours will help her provide that service. And in terms of um the entertainment license, we're just looking for a change in those hours. We're not looking to
change anything else on that. >> Correct. Just hours. Thank you. >> So this is on you did front and back and it just confused me. Okay, perfect.
Um, okay. To um is there anybody from my commissioners that would like to speak before I ask for feedback from the police department? >> I just have a quick question with the kitchen. Um, when would you close the
kitchen on those days? >> 12:30 a.m. >> Okay. So, you extending the kitchen hours to 12:30. >> Okay. Yes. >> Do you get a lot of um I don't know if you're on D and Dash or or takeout orders
or >> yes too sergeant. Uh thoughts from the police department. Uh, so I did a check of the call logs, uh, limited call log. There's only been one call log from this year. Um, first of all, how is business going
since you took over? Everything's been calm. There has been no issues. >> Um, so what I did want to me what I did want to mention though is in regards to opening later and drawing in more of a crowd, um, I would just be mindful of
the fire code, which is um, how many people she can have in there because it is a smaller smaller uh, space. Um, also I heard that you're extending the entertainment license as well, some things people fail to understand is that
even if you're adding something as simple as like an extra speaker or an extra TV, those things have to be reflected. If you plan on opening later and extending your entertainment, um if you're going to add to that or even like
opting for a DJ, etc., that has to be uh documented and reflected on your application for entertainment. So they they do have a DJ and the live band on their entertainment license, >> right, >> along with the radio and TVs.
Um, and with it opening a little later, just be mindful of um, serving to intoxicated parties. Um, especially if you notice that they're intoxicated, just be mindful of that. Um, and being able to
kind of recognize that and cutting them off. All right, good luck to you. >> I have a follow-up question. >> Yes. >> Um, do you know your occupacy um in that location? >> 19.
[Music] >> Okay. >> 19. All right. They only have one bathroom. It limits them twice. >> I'm just trying to see how many people they're expecting after 11 when it was only 19 can only occupy that space.
>> I don't I mean that's what they're looking for. >> Yeah. >> I I do look surprised when I drive by. I do look in. I've never seen an like I've never seen it like overrowed. I didn't count the heads. But >> it's like a dining drink like chill.
>> We've been there. >> Yeah. 19. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anyone from the public that would like to speak on this matter? >> Seeing no one, um
my my thoughts um as we do quite often with these licenses would be inclined to do a 1:00 a.m. on the Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Um but to keep it at the 11 um Sunday through Wednesday. Um, I don't know what my
>> fellow colleagues think. >> We've been doing that for for over Yeah, that's pretty uniform. >> Yeah, I agree. That makes sense. >> Yep, I agree. >> That work? Um, so does anyone want to make a motion to approve a change in
hours on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday um from the current 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. to 11 a.m. to 1 a.m. >> Motion
>> and Monday >> uh the Sunday Sundays through Wednesdays. No change. >> No change. >> It's just Thursday, Friday. >> Just want to be clear. >> Yeah. >> I'll second. >> Second. >> Oh, sorry.
>> Nope. That's okay. Um all in favor >> I >> um so um once the city has finalized everything what we are are just agreeing to is that
we will approve the change in hours for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday until 1:00 a.m. >> Okay. >> Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is still 11 p.m. Okay. Not a problem. >> Do you know when it will be finalized or
how long it takes? >> I have to defer to Miss Naomi on that. >> When I get done with it, you shall know. >> Thank you. So, she'll send the notification um and let um you know as
soon as it's ready >> because you can't do it until you have a new license that has those hours posted on it because you know um so in in the restaurant you should have the license hanging up or the multiple licenses the
like the the liquor license, the entertainment license, the common Vic license, all of those are hanging up. Um, so the city will give you new ones that will have those change of hours noted on it. So you can't do it until
you get those papers and have them hanging up. Okay, you're very welcome. Thank you so much and good luck. >> Okay. Um, from there, we're going to move on to
other business. And before I get into what we have to talk about, um, is there anyone from the public that has anything they would like to bring to our attention today? And remember to please speak your name and your address.
>> Hello. Uh my name is Nelson Molina. Um I live at 51 Mabo Street. Um as our city continues to grow and change, we're proud to be part of its vibrant local culture. We're locally and family-owned bar that has only become a welcoming space for community gatherings, dancing,
and live DJs. We're committed to offering a safe, positive, and enriching environment for residents and visitors alike. Currently we hold an entertainment license that includes dancing by patrons. We operate with a team that priorit prioritize our safety and our hospitality on any busy night.
We have three security personnel, two on-site managers, two floor managers. Thanks to our proactive approach, we rarely experience issues. We work hard to maintain a space that feels safe, inclusive, and well managed. However, we notice a recurring challenge. Although we close at 1. Many
of our patronons begin to leave between 11 am 11 p.m. and between 11 p.m. and 11:45 p.m. before the other bars around our city close their doors usually around 12:00 12:30 and they could usually close their doors at 2:00 a.m. Um, this early
departure directly affects our ability to maintain our customer base and revenue during peak hours, especially considering the high standards and staffing we keep in place for safety and operations. We understand and respect the city's concerns around nightife and public safety. We are not asking to cut
corners. We're simply asking for support to help level the playing field. Whether that means a review of current closing times across similar establishments, a conversation about consistent enforcement citywide, or simply recognition of the effort and structure we already have in place. We are eager
to work with the city and law enforcement to find a solution that allows us to sustain our business while keeping our commitment to safety in in the local community. We are doing everything we can in compliance with ICE protocols coordinating with police and running a tightly managed operation. But
without some adjustments or support, we are risk of losing what we've built. Thank you for your time, your service, and your consideration. We'll be happy to meet and discuss this further. >> Thank you, Nelson. Um, and did you I apologize because I was trying to listen to everything that you said. Did you
reference the name of your business? >> Yeah, my business is Nocturnal Lounge. >> Thank you. >> 158 Broadway. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> I missed that. >> Yeah. I I didn't catch it with what you said. Um, so I just wanted to make sure that that was referenced as well. Um, and I definitely appreciate you coming
and speaking before us um, and sharing your thoughts. Uh it's one of the things that we continually ask for from the community because our role we're we're volunteers here and we are trying to do our part to do what's best for the city. But in order for us to do what's best
for the city, we also need people to come and share their um the things they like, the things that they don't like. That that's how things um can take place. So we really do appreciate you coming and sharing your thoughts with us tonight. >> Okay.
>> Um we're there's not going to be any sort of a decision um on extending any sort of hours tonight. Um and as we stated at the last meeting, I believe if if not the meeting before, um it it
didn't sound like, and please tell me if I'm wrong, um that my fellow colleagues were thinking of 2 am at this time. Um >> well, what I'm confused. Are you asking to extend the hours or you trying to have us to decides to add dancing to
your >> No, no. I already have the dancing patrons in my establishment. I'm asking if we could extend my hours to 2 a.m. >> That's I'm so confused. >> Don't we Isn't it Foot Loose? Don't we live in Foot Loose? Dancing is not allowed. >> I would advocate for dancing more than extended hours. >> I mean, I'm not I'm not for Foot Loose,
but I thought we live in dance free zone. >> They have one on their um license because they have a whole >> Oh, they have the whole Gotcha. So, is it that you So, if you're open till 2 am, are you saying that that is So, you're saying that people leave your bar
because others are open till 2 am. Yeah. >> And so, they're leaving because they're like, "Let me get to this other place. I can hang out there for 2 hours before last call." >> Exactly. Cuz we um we I actually saw I actually um wrote down how many um establishments are in um our surrounding
cities that close at 2 a.m. In Just Boston, they have uh 12. In River, they have 10. So, I mean, I'm I'm I'm just asking if you guys could like help out if at least one day, >> you know, I could sign up for that one day proposal and we can go from there
and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, you know, >> but I'm just asking if you guys could like be lenient towards me and like help me out >> cuz I've been I've been in this city doing business here for since 2006.
I mean, I have Curly's restaurant, I have no lounge, and I have Rinkong Dureno. >> Um, again, we're not going to be making any sort of a decision tonight. Um, but we can certainly um entertain it as a
conversation. Um, >> oh, when when he puts an official uh request in, >> it might be helpful if others were with you in that conversation, like the other owners. >> Okay. So, so here's how I see it. Re I didn't know they had 10. Ra has a
couple. East Boston has a couple. Ever has a very low amount. Not every not every restaurant's going to be able to get it. >> So, I don't know how we're going to choose if we if we ever decide to >> Well, and I think we would definitely want to stay away from any of the residential areas if we were to ever allow anything like that.
>> And there's no way Chelsea could handle to 10 2:00 license. And the big and the other issue is is the police would I'll let the police chime in, but that's always been the issue. >> I mean, He's across the police station. >> We're across the >> Has anyone else complain? I mean, I know we a couple years ago there was a
>> Your mic's not on, Emily. >> There was a noise complaint. Yeah. CO, but I know you put the doors in. >> Has that been okay? >> Yeah, we've been fine. Yeah. >> It's It's not about being close to police station. It's staffing. Third shift. I believe there's not much staffing of it. >> But a suggestion that could be is like
um I know there's only two businesses here in Chelsea that have um Dancing by Patrons. So, we could start with that. What's the other one? >> I think there's got to be more >> yellow. >> Tucasa has to have it. They have they have a they have a dance floor,
>> but I don't think they do the dance. >> Tucasa does have it. >> Yeah, they have to. They have a downstairs. >> Oh, because if they have a function hall, that makes it okay. >> I mean, I'm sure they have it. There's a dance floor on the top floor. >> Aos must too, right? >> Yes, Ameliana does.
>> And all this is located in the downtown area. They're not really I mean everything's kind of resial, not resial, but >> yeah, >> I mean not residential. There's still houses around. It's not as like resial like >> I think I will consider having a
discussion if there was I I I appreciate you coming, but I think if other restaurant tours or bars uh also come because it shows it's a numbers thing, then we could start a discussion. So maybe something that you could
advocate amongst. >> Can I just say something? >> Um a couple years ago I was here because um just one woman uh made a complaint about our noise and I had to change my my whole back door and that cost me
around like $5,000 because of the noise complaint. >> Just one person. >> It was made. It was like a >> It was like the condo unit. They're like two. I mean I agree. It was a little ridiculous, but >> yeah. And I mean, I complied with you
guys, you know. I I did my I did what I had to do. >> This is more It's not about you. I think our conversation is what's best for like the larger just Chelsea community and how we think about we want to be fair and how we think about access to who gets the 2 a.m. who doesn't and how to
really just think about that. >> Exactly what I was thinking. >> Yeah. How do we create a vibrant downtown and and and make sure it's safe and you know >> because I was thinking like look what happened with the cannabis dispensary so that trickled down so something we need
to think of as a whole >> not just one >> uh >> Sergeant is there anything you'd like to say I know that this isn't an official uh conversation but is there anything you'd like to say on the subject? Um, so
from my understanding is, uh, the chief is not very much of an advocate for a 2 a.m. close, um, for as long as he's been doing this. Again, that this will require a further conversation, maybe even moving it to like a public hearing,
um, for further discussions. And I agree with um, Alex that maybe you can rally other businesses as well that might be interested. So that way you know everybody comes and just kind of say their piece about it. Um and then maybe like the next topic that we're
discussing which is progressive discipline we can speak about certain terms about it being progressive towards what would qualify or be allowable as a um ly to extend to 2 a.m. what what
would that process even look like if that became a conversation? Um, and if that's the case, would it be a case-byase basis if they're having an event that they're trying to do or like like he mentioned, a day out of the week or whatever the case may be? I think
there's a lot of avenues for discussion. Um, but again, that's also, you know, considering residential and and the like. So, um, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to break it into like a public hearing for next time, but
a thought that she just made me think about. It doesn't have to be just businesses. If you have other supporters for this idea, I think that helps as well too. >> That that is the important part is hearing from residents of the community as well. Obviously, a lot of the
businesses would like to to be open, but what we need to make sure is that the residents are in support of it as well. So we don't have a bunch of residents that are upset that they have bars near them that are open laid and causing
disturbances. But if the residents are in support of it as well because they want to be patrons at these establishments, then okay. But if it's having people from outside of Chelsea that are coming in and going to all of these and it's not for the benefit of the people that
are living here in Chelsea, then that's something that we may not necessarily want to do because as much as we want to support our local businesses, we have to look at Chelsea as a whole. So, it's kind of that that balance. Um so if uh my fellow commissioners would like to
make a motion, we can um move this to a uh discussion for public hearing. >> We did the opposite last meeting. >> What >> we did the opposite last week we
>> what >> we did the opposite last meeting. We we we tabled it and said well let let lences come in and ask for you know ask for the extension we'll deal with it when that happens. But we asked for the licensing. >> No, no, for it was mentioned,
>> but now we're asking for the public to come and >> I'm not. >> Okay. >> Uh but if that's what you want to do. >> Well, I'm saying if we want to continue the conversation, that's what we would have to do. Otherwise, it's establishment by establishment would come before us and request a change of
hours and then they would anybody that would like to speak on that matter for each establishment that came before us. So whichever you >> I like that second avenue better. >> I was for I think I was for the public hearing. I remember >> I wasn't >> I I would motion to have a public
discussion about extending licensing hours to 2 a.m. >> Just as a general conversation >> as a general conversation >> because I think I remember saying like doesn't mean we're going to do it but I think it's people want to be heard and they want to make their case. I mean, otherwise every month someone's going to come and make
>> Well, I mean, they still would have to come before us individually for each of the establishments because even if if we have a public hearing and we say we'll allow some licenses to go until 2 a.m., then we will still have a public hearing for every single establishment that
wants to do that. I think that's >> so does it make sense to do a separate public hearing that's just a general conversation that is not about any specific establishment and then do public hearings for every single bar
that then wants to extend until 2:00 >> and that's what you said let let them come in front of us that that was it that was train of thought last month >> because because you have to have a public hearing for every single one. It's not like we're gonna have a meeting
and then everybody's gonna they obviously we want all that feedback, but we can't do anything like we would have a public hearing and nothing happens. >> Or we could say that's not going to happen. I'm not saying that, but like we could also say, "Yeah, that's that's not
going to happen. You come before us, we're going to say no." >> So, I just I don't know. Like I just >> I have a quick question. Is our license restricted to 1:00 a.m. or it's to 2 am because it's from the ABCC? >> It's up to the board. >> No, >> it's up to us.
>> Yeah, we could choose to go later. >> So, it's never been restricted. It's just we made it 1:00 a.m. >> The license commission has decided what hours they >> There's no like larger rule. >> In the last 30 years, they've pretty much made a concerted effort. 1:00 a.m. is the latest we're going to do. They
I've been in other meetings when I wasn't a licensed commissioner. >> I know Chelsea's changed a lot. was driven by the police. >> I hear you. Chelsea's changed a lot in 30 years. I just want >> I would I would be more inclined to have the establishments request
to change their license. >> Me too. >> And then have the people come out regarding that location just because if if we do it as a general conversation, it's still going to have to be one by
one and all the residents that are for or opposed have to again come out for one by one establishments. So just thinking about everybody's time that way. >> All right. So we can make a statement saying that we are considering or it's
not guaranteed that we consider extending to 2 am if they apply to extend their hours from 1:00 a.m. to 2 am >> which has always been the case. people can always apply and then it's a conversation. Um, and every time that
somebody requests to put a change in hours, it has to go out to all of the abutters. Um so that way all of the abutters are notified that set establishment is trying to change their hours and then hopefully um people from
the community come out and say if they're for or against and that way based upon that community feedback that helps us as a board make a decision for what makes sense for each individual location that comes before us.
>> I think it's key to have the support during those public hearings. Um so I remember there was a huge support I forget the name whatever when the summit um everyone came and support that restaurant >> despite of the parking issue. So torito
lounge. >> Yeah. But now I was talking about a long time ago. >> No, a long time ago. >> When the lounge >> Yeah. When is when So yeah, >> that's the owners of >> Exactly. So that that was key in making that decision. So support of the
community would definitely help. >> I thought that was me. >> So >> I thought that was >> I'll be open to it if they apply. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for speaking tonight. >> So you you would need So to apply, how do we do it? Do is it online? Is there
>> No, it's on the ABCC website. >> Okay. >> It's a change of hours. >> Okay. Perfect. >> It's an amendment. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much for coming in. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Next on our agenda is a discuss discussion a continued discussion on
progressive discipline policy. Um so um and Sergeant I have a copy of everything um for you that I gave to the other commissioners as well. Um the
we've we've been working on this for a while. um or I should say the concept of doing this um we started a while ago um trying to get a progressive discipline in place
based upon upon a conversation with the ABCC last October um that it's beneficial to us as a board and the community to have this. Um, so that being said, um,
just for, um, public record, we had our, um, we had our meeting as a commission with the police department with the ABCC. We then had our special meeting I believe back in May or June I think June
>> um where we started talking about the plan and came up with like an initial >> draft of um kind of what a sample plan might look like. Um, so what I did for everyone, um, just to give everybody
something visual, you each have four kind of separate things. The first little stapled section is that draft with my notes from prior meetings >> for last meeting. >> Yes. The next page is the list of
typical licensing violations that Mike had provided all of us noted. >> Yes. With the tiered violation level that we um thought that those went to. >> Um then the bigger um pamphlet at the
back is the full rules and regulations from the city of Framingham. Um but the one just before that is just pages 14 through 21 from that rules and regulations. So that is the particular
section that I think has some important stuff that we would want to include. So rather than making you go through that entire 21 pages, I pulled those out separately for you and those are kind of marked up with the things that I thought
were most important in that section. U that we'd want to make sure that we are including on um our own version um because this is something as you see inside of the the city of Firmingham rules and
regulations. It is a fairly detailed thing that has to get typed up and added to our rules and regulations with this progressive discipline plan. Uh so we we know at this point um based upon
our our conversation so far the typical violations that we deal with based upon what Mike gave us based upon that draft that we have. Um so we have a collection of items and we have decided
what we deem as minor to severe. So that part we pretty much have situated I think if everybody agrees. >> So the next part is looking at the other sections that we kind of have to add in
um along with the typical rule um the severity of of the standard items. So, that was where when you look at those pages that I pulled from the rules and regs that are marked up um down at the bottom of it, it says pages 14 through
21. >> Yeah. >> Um so, the the section there where they talk about the the penalties, procedures, and structure, this is where a lot of those notes I think are important for us to put in.
not necessarily um a verbatim sort of a deal. >> Well, one suggestion I could have is we could upload this section >> into like we could use AI and just like say can you incorporate these pages into
like our like document and then it could create like a new version of it so that it's sort of integrated. >> So, so I like every section you cited. I think you did a good job. I would just like to make it more simplified. It's it's >> just a lot. I don't think we necessarily needed
>> all of that. That's where I >> I like it all though, but >> and I noted the parts that I thought were the most important for us to put in. >> Um because it does The other thing that I think is important in us doing this is remembering that there's still
there's still wiggle room. This is a guide. >> Um and by including from pages 17 and 18 where they talk about the um aggravating factors and the mitigating factors um
having those um kind of included in it as well. It's it's one of those things where the whole reason for doing this is to make it clear to the community this is what you should be expecting if you are breaking these rules.
>> Yeah. >> And making it so if we put forth some sort of a disciplinary um for one of our businesses, we have backing from the ABCC because we
don't want to have happened what happened a few years back where they overturned one of the rulings. Um, and in speaking with the ABCC, if we have this plan in place and we
follow it, they will not overturn us. Um, so that's why it's so important for us to make sure we get this finalized. Um, and I think it just also helps as a board um, moving forward as well to have a guide so it's not every time we have a
disciplinary matter kind of a do we do a little bit of it. Um, >> I think we're on board with that. I I guess is that and so I can I mean I'm happy to upload it, combine it, and just out a draft then we can review it in the next meeting that integrates.
>> Well, we still have to update everything based upon our other notes, too. So, we can't just >> There has to be stuff that's actually typed in and changed before AI can do it. >> Sure. And um >> so are we going to go over the offense
schedule and do that first because that's the last step? I mean you guys can do either one first. >> Yeah, we can do either one first. Um but it's it's a matter of everybody has had the information that we've been looking to do this and build this for
months now and has been asked for the last couple of months to make sure that you've taken time to go through this and have your feedback. Um, so I would love said feedback and not just we're relying
on AI that this should be something that we are actually um having some opinions on because I think it's an important thing. >> Well, let's dig in. Which one you want to start with? >> Do you have a preference of which area? >> I mean, I don't I think doing the doing
the schedule of fences would be would be easier, but that might be better for save later and go through the hard work first or whatever you guys want to do. >> I guess I'm wrong because we we we put numbers by. >> All right. Now, we got to go. So, so 11 violation, the first offense, written
warning, second offense, one day suspension. Go through that. We need to decide. >> But are those guidelines? >> Yes, we got to do it though. We didn't we didn't we got the levels but we didn't say we didn't we didn't we didn't issue the deem the punishment for each one.
>> So usually how we call the first second. >> Oh. So you're saying we we identified the levels but not we didn't do the consequences. >> Exactly. >> Okay. So we need to just do consequences. >> That's one of the things we got to do. Yeah. >> Want to do that? >> Let's go at it. >> All right. >> So that was um you you again have the
sheet of what AI stated um on that top page. this one that is from what um Emily had um sent over. So if you look at the first page of that over on the right,
>> but they only have they don't they only have first offense then I don't see any second. Is it on the other page? >> Uh no, I don't think that one ended up giving us um that that's just a little bit of a a guide is what I'm referencing that.
>> Right. So those who are in level one that we identify level one as minor. >> Yeah. >> And so the consequence is do we agree that we're going to give them a verbal warning? >> I think that's fair. The first offense. >> The first offense. So no one day suspension or anything.
>> I mean it's for for having the wrong color shirt for security guard. It's for not having the right sign. I think a verbal warning warning. >> I think that's fair. Right. >> All right. So then it gets documented. That's their first offense. So then, >> but I don't know what you want to do for the second offense.
>> Well, if they were brought back to us again for the same level one offense, then we bring them to level two. >> No, I think we give them a of a a penalty. >> A penalty. >> What do you mean by penalty though? >> A suspension of a day maybe. >> Okay. Okay.
>> The 16 pages 16 to 21 are much more. >> Oh, that's the next step. That's Yeah. >> May I interject? Even even for the level ones, if they reaffend, that's a subsequent offense. I suggest that we I think what you're saying, Mike, is add that asterisk of the subsequent a
subsequent offense even though it's another offense of a level one. That's their subsequent offense, which will carry a higher penalty just like mass general law. >> It's still a level one, but it's level one subsequent offense. And now we can move progressively to additional
>> instead of just verbal warning. So that way we're not committed to just oh it's a level one again though maybe just a verbal warning but at least if we list the se that it's a subsequent offense we can raise that. >> Thank you. That's >> okay. All right. Now I get it now. Thanks.
>> So first offense of verbal one second offense. >> Yeah. >> What do you want? What do you want to give? >> One day suspension. I think that's fair because it's still minor. Well, and you can always do um when we do that um suspension, it's like inabatement.
Again, if you're talking something minor, there's that penalty hanging over them, but do we do it automatically? Um so, we'd we'd have that ability in those situations. Um so, if if it was a second offense in a very short span of time, yeah, we we probably want to
suspend them because they didn't do what they were supposed to. But if it had been a a longer period of time, but still not too long, maybe we put that suspension, but it's inabatement. If they do something else within a short period of time, >> what would be the period of time?
Because 60 days seems short. >> 60 days is very short. >> A year or two. >> Within the year, if they repeat level one, it goes to the second. >> Yeah. Remember, there's only two level one violations. We, you know, signage violations and wrong uniforms for the
first Yeah, >> I think I think that's later on though when we get to the other half. >> Yeah, we said >> we're just going to do the uh >> the security guard we said was a level one. >> Yeah. And then signage >> signage. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I wouldn't go one two day
violation on a on a third offense, right? >> Okay. No, that's fair. >> And then that's >> I just want to be clear on that. >> I think that's fair. >> One day two day. >> Yeah. think level one is easy. >> Level two, >> it's the it's the level two, three, and
four. >> Level two says AI says to give another verbal warning. >> I think it it could be um based upon looking at these things that that we deemed as level two. Level twos were unauthorized entertainment, noise
violations, um failure to contact the board for a change in manager approval. I think some of those are more than just a a verbal warning. You change your manager without us knowing the violation. >> So, back to your idea like an action
plan that they have to tell us they have corrected the level twos. Um if not then if not in a certain period of time then they will have to have that penalty. I think that would be fair. >> I mean we always have that ability
right. I know AI said that an action plan, but we want an action plan on everything >> and we can hold it in >> obeyance. Can we still hold things in obeyance? >> Yeah. So, >> so they have to approve within six months or if not then they have the one day suspension >> and I think we always want an action
plan on any and all of them. >> So that's why you add that in. Well, going back to this piece with Framingham when they say I saw page. >> Hold on. Let me um let me identify because
>> it's very good. It's very complicated. That's why I want to >> No, no, no. I I just want to reference one section. It's just I think it was saying something that basically like acknowledgment of so page 18 acceptance
of responsibility. If for level two, if they accept the responsibility, they came with an action plan, they already corrected. >> Yeah, >> I forgot which restaurant did that. I thought that was amazing. >> A lot of them do. A lot of them do. They fire their workers. They
>> you know, they immediately took action that it's like for me like, okay, let's see how you do in six months and then we'll remove the penalty. >> Can we go over this and then then when we're done with this, we'll know how much we can go up and down on the >> Yeah. Yeah. This is we're brainstorming and you're making notes, right?
>> Uh yeah. >> Fabulous. >> So like >> I'll take a picture of your notes at the end. >> You're not going to be able to read my Right. >> So like we were talking about level two is unauthorized entertainment, failure to contact the board for management approval. Uh anything else for level
two? >> Um unreasonable noise. >> Unreasonable noise. So this is not like really dire, but it's definitely a violation of their license. I think you need to give more than a verbal warning for an object. >> No, I'm not saying a verbal ver level
two. What I'm suggesting is they have to come with an action plan, a substance of responsibility. >> Say a written warning. It's not a verbal. >> Yeah. And then and then we immediately give them a penalty, but they have to show us they corrected this. If not >> in that certain amount of time, I'm I'm
suggesting six months. >> Even on an authorized entertainment, you want to give a a verbal warning the first time. It's come almost like a pass. >> No, I'm not. >> No written. >> No, >> even a written one, it's still like a pass, >> but it's it's also making a again we
have those those sections where it gives us that ability to do more. So, if it's a massive noise violation, I think it gives us the ability to do more. Okay. >> Um and um sorry, my brain is not
working. um by having a written warning, it goes onto their docket. So, we have that as reference. Um so, anytime somebody is coming before us, um we need to make sure that we are always requesting that
docket. So, we have clear reference of everything that they have ever come before us for. And that makes it that much easier to say, well, they were here for this, they were here for this, they were here for this. >> Okay. So that's what you want for us offense written warning. >> Do you agree?
>> I was suggesting written warning with them having an action plan to correct what they have done wrong and then was mention abatement. >> Um so that's where um what I would say is written warning up to
um one day suspension. >> Okay, >> we can do that. We can make it that You can have it be a range. It doesn't or or if you think that maybe somebody could be in a bigger violation, maybe it's a two-day suspension that we want to say as the >> as with a penalty.
>> Mhm. >> And we'll determine what >> we could do that one or two day suspension in abatement where we say it's it's an abatement so long as >> an obeyance. You mean?
>> Yes. In obeyance. Thank you. uh that if you have no further violations for the next three months, six months, we pick the time frame, >> then that suspension will go away. But if you do something within
that time, you're going to have that suspension and whatever additional disciplinary matter we choose to give you for whatever your new reason for coming before us is. >> Okay. Second offense. >> Second off. No, >> I thought that was
>> that was first offense. Level two second offense. >> I would say definitely a penalty. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> I agree. >> Yeah. >> Three days. >> Up to three days. >> I would like to keep it that range. >> I like that.
>> So second offense would be up to three days. Well, this says if you repeat the violations within 12 months, then you escalate to the next level. >> So then it's really a three. >> If you do it twice within a year, then it moves up. >> AI
>> when you're talking about like >> I don't I don't agree with that. >> I don't agree with that though. A level one's a level one. >> No, no, I understand what Emily's saying, but I think we >> You said it's a second offense >> of a level one violation. We're doing tiers by the level. So level one has two
tiers. First time second. Level two, same thing. First time written warning, second time up to three days. So we're just changing a little bit >> a difference between three years, four years time span or within one year. There are two violations. >> Yeah. But I don't think it should go to
I mean I don't think it should go to a level two than a level three for something that's trivial. Not trivial, but you know, signage you're going to give them. You're going to go to a level two, maybe even a level three. That just seems like a lot. I'd rather just go stay on the stay on the the on
the like exceeding. >> Well, it doesn't >> exceeding power. >> I think level one and level two have two tiers, but level three and four maybe doesn't have any tiers. >> Well, those are the tiers. Level you mean offenses number >> offens offenses. >> So, we're talking about level one, level
two. I agree with your point. I think we should give >> Yeah, those are much more minor offenses. Yeah, those are minor where level three and four are very serious. Maybe we don't have that first or second offense. It is what it is. >> Well, we can start off high and and then keep it high. >> Yeah. >> All right.
>> So, that's a compromise. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> What What are we going to write for level two? Third offense. >> Oh, is there a third? Third goes to level three now. >> I mean, you did it three times in a year. Like, we we have more problems than
>> Yeah. We got to make it, you know, bigger. That's >> I don't think we should have a third >> I don't think we have to have a third offense written into the thing. I think it's if you're doing something more than twice, you obviously are a problem coming before us. And at that point, we
>> I think if we just list them as subsequent offense, that's a coverall. And then from there, if we have a threshold where it's like, okay, they're at the third point mark, they automatically go up to the next level of violation cuz that's just completely
>> disregard just a disregard and of of the commission's rules. >> At that point, it just sounds like somebody who doesn't want to be doing business in our city because they're not they're not following the rules at that point at all. So, they >> I mean, it'll probably happen at some point. >> It has happened in the past. Oh, I'm I'm
sure unfortunately >> level three then first offense. >> All right. So, here it says public hearing was possible suspension up to three days. I don't think it's possible. It is. >> Um I do just want to say that um for that level two a public hearing would be
required as well. >> Okay. >> Because that's not noted um in in that draft. But I do think >> I think the public hands everything except for the first offense of level one. I I think the first event's level
one the city can just address um with a verbal warning if they didn't have their signs up. I think that that's a very simple thing that doesn't necessarily have to come before us. But if they didn't do a change of manager, they've had unauthorized entertainment noise
violations, I think they do have to come before us for that. So that would be a public hearing. So the only non-public hearing is level one. >> Yeah. >> Fair. Everybody agree? >> Yes. Y >> I agree. >> Okay. >> All right. Just to go over level three, just to make it very clear why we're
being >> this strict. Uh security guard with weapons, lack of functioning cameras. Those cameras, um failure to contact police, over capacity, um violation of
permitted hours, employee consuming alcohol and sale of alcohol from off-site consumption >> and over sererving. an over service. >> All big charges. >> And then there was some other notes um where we said um hindering or delaying
an investigation. >> Yeah. >> Um and operating outside of approved hours um and disorderly conduct. So the first offense I say definitely a
public hearing >> and then a suspension up to three days. >> I think more. >> Okay. >> I think and also can we add in that um or or or at roll back of hours is is a good punishment. >> Yeah. Well yeah we haven't talked about
the penalties we were just talking >> that is that is one of the penalties >> that one of the penalties >> like can we write say it's say we say four days and and or roll back possible possible roll back of hours. >> Yep. So you want to increase it to four days or >> Yep. >> Rolling back. Okay.
>> Up to I like how you put up to >> um do we give a time period about rolling back the hours like up to six months a year? >> I think it's better if we don't have to. If we have to we'll but if we if we don't have to do better >> they have to like reapply to extend it. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. I'm just possible. >> Yeah. Because they always you typically always have to have them come back before us. Um and make that clear because we have put time periods before. So no time period, it's just rolling back hours and that's it. >> Possible rolling back of hours. Yeah.
>> Because a lot of the time when we do it, we say you can come back before us in six months if you'd like. >> Has like a policy. I mean, we tell them a time frame, but it just be based on >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because it's really us just saying when we say that it's like don't come back before us before six months to ask.
>> Okay. when like 10 years ago when things were really bad, we'd roll back hours and there was no there was no length of it. It was forever until they came back and we the same thing. We'd say, "If you're good for a year, come back and and talk to us." But that wasn't official. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I don't think we need to have anything official that way.
>> Okay. >> Um and then a second offense. >> I don't think we should have a second offense for level three. >> So, you're saying shut down? >> Shut it down. That's it. It's just like I mean look at the violations for level three.
>> Yeah. Yeah. They're pretty bad. I agree. I think I agree. We should keep something >> below that and then up to up to um >> loss of license. >> We haven't shut places down. That's >> We've only shut like one place or two
places down. >> Yeah. I mean, we haven't shut anyone down in the four years I've been here. >> You weren't here when we shut down. You did it just before. >> Okay. >> So, I was >> the
the overturning from the ABCC happened while I was here. Um, but that happened like 18 months, I think, after because of just the way the timing works with the state. Um, so that whole process took quite a while.
>> Can we write five a five days suspension up to loss of license? That's >> for level three. I think that would be for level four. Second offense level three though. >> Oh, you want a second offense >> or subsequence offense? What? >> Yeah. >> Just so we have it in there. >> Not that we have to use it.
>> In our second offense, are we saying within a certain time frame? >> Say it does say here. I mean, we do say um time escalation. >> Yeah, maybe we can figure it out when we get to the >> after 12 consecutive months without further violations, a license record may be reset. So if they do a three
violation in two years then three violation then it's counted as just one not a second offense. If it's within a year then it's considered a second offense of a third violation third level violation. >> I agree with that but I think it should be more than a year two years or three years. I mean, I I definitely think uh
when we're talking levels three and four, um if those same major instances are occurring within a two-year time frame, that is a concern >> because remember, we're not catching it every time it happens. We're just catching it. So, if it's three years
later, it's probably happened between them, too. >> I mean, anybody who's worked in a bar knows that a lot of these things happen. And even if you haven't worked in a bar and you go to a bar, everybody sees these
things, people only come before us when stuff has been reported >> and they get caught. >> Um, >> so up to five days suspension and andor lost a license.
Was that too >> Okay, so we're talking >> So we're talking a four >> second offense. >> I I don't know. I just think like level We already came up with the penalty >> of the first offense, >> but if they do it again within a year, that goes up to level four because I
mean level three is pretty serious. >> If you're doing it again within >> So we just put So we'll just put it but it's a level two. It's still a level two violation. A level three violation. >> Level two. >> We can give it the same punishment. So, so let's So, we So, we said that level
one or first offense for level three was a >> up to four days suspension and or a possible roll back of violence. >> Okay. What do we want as first offense for level four? >> We didn't get to We We missed We skipped a subsequent offense in level three,
though. >> No, no, we're skipping that for a second. We're just we're just saying so >> suspension or revocation. >> So I like it that it says between 3 to 30 days >> for the loss of license. >> I like that
>> because it's let's talk about it. Drug activity, violence, fraud on I mean serious up can we say up to 30 days and loss or or loss of license? >> Yes, >> that's what it says here. But look what it says here. Or or a second level three
violation with 12 months, it automatically moves to level four. And and I agree with that. >> So I don't think we need to have a second offense in level three because if you come back again with level three, you're moving to level four, >> which some it's still a level three
offense even if you >> No, a second level three violation. >> If you look um making it more complicated, >> Mike, no. So if you look at that first page down on the bottom, I think that the way that's phrased that works. >> It becomes a level four. It's a level four. >> So
>> only certain things. So >> no, >> second level. So if if you committed one of the the level three things a second time >> within one year, then the punishment is that of a level four.
>> Okay. Up to 30 suspension. >> Two years. I mean, we can sort of decide what that type of, but >> can we do up to 30 days suspension in or roll back of hours >> or in or revocious? >> Yep. >> Yeah. I don't think you have to have the three to 30. I think you can just say up
to >> He said up to 30 days. >> Yeah, it is. >> So, we don't need a we don't need a second offense in that one either, right? >> Nope. >> No, because if you're again, you're coming back before or something like
that. I think we can all agree if you're coming back before us for a level four within a year, we're probably taking away your license. >> Yeah. >> Again, I want to change that that year. I want to put it longer. >> Okay. So, we could talk about that. You don't want it within 12 months. You want it what? Within
>> 24 months. Maybe >> 24 months. >> If you're coming back 18 months later, it's still it's still pretty pretty bad. >> Okay. So within 24 months, >> I think that's reasonable. >> Thoughts from the police department in that timeline,
Sergeant, >> the 24 months. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I think that's >> rather than just saying a year. >> I Yeah, I I think that's that's fair. At least that way it shows if they're going to comply with it and take it seriously. And then the second year will be just
maintenance. see if they uphold it. So the first year is like correction and then the second year is see if they can maintain that. >> So what so I'm just trying to play this out. What what if we get multiple violations which is definitely going to happen. We just add up we add up the times. >> We have to add Yeah, we have to
>> follow the penalties. If it's a level one verbal but then you came here for level three that's an individual violation. So we have to give a penalty. It could be multiple. So the way >> almost always is. >> So the way the ABCC explained it is
>> let's let's say Sergeant was just at I don't want to name one of our businesses. >> One of our businesses. >> So let's let's pretend bar A. >> Yeah. >> Sergeant was just at bar A and she comes back to us and they didn't like it
happens a lot. They didn't have their signs in place. staff was drinking and the security agents weren't um were not in red shirts and their cameras weren't working. >> Camera's a big one.
>> So, we know these things happen all the time. We very often have a situation like that. The way it was presented to me from the ABCC is we are looking at that as one incident >> really
>> but we can look at the number of things that happened in that incident. So in that incident we had things that were level three. >> So we can automatically go up to the higher >> of what level three offers. >> Okay. But it wasn't necessarily
um you couldn't say, "Okay, it's three days because you had somebody drinking and it's three days for this and three days for this." You you couldn't do it per >> offense. >> Per item. Yeah. Per offense that was on
it. We're looking at >> the said incident. >> All right. That then we should write that down so it could be very clear for future commissioners. Oh, done with the punishment schedule. >> What's next?
>> We get to check one thing off of our list. That's a fabulous thing. >> What about the enforcement process here? Inspection and compliance documented by police. >> Ah, that's where you're at. Okay. >> Yeah. Might as well just finish this document
before we move on to the next one. Licensing violation expected corrective action and potential consequences hearing. >> So we're only having hearing public hearing for level three and four, but we just decided >> three and four. >> All right. So we need to amend that to
include level two >> in level one uh second offense. >> Level one second offense. And then decision and penalty commission votes on the appropriate action. Licenses receives ready order
and public display notice. Okay. So I think we're good in that part then we just need to amend number three. >> Yep. >> All right. They may request mitigation consideration based on a med im media correction action, history of compliance, cooperation, and community
impact, >> which is what they do. >> I think that's fair. >> It's fine. They have the right to do it when we say yes. >> And then they could also appeal. [Music] >> All right. So, it's just number three, we and Oh, number two, we need to amend it to 24 months.
>> Yep. >> All right. Are we good with this document? Good work, guys. >> Can I just mention something regard to 24 months? >> Yes. >> Uh for level four, I think it should be longer just cuz it's a little severe
before their scorecard resets. Um >> agreed. >> I mean, I I don't think two years is enough for a level four violation. >> What would you suggest? >> Five. >> Five. I agree. I agree with that. >> Five.
>> Yeah. cuz I don't want if somebody if a ly gets to that point where they are violating in the level four realm >> I don't want to paint that idea for them that after two years
>> it's it's you know blank slate again >> so if you don't pay your credit cards it's like on your credit report for seven years >> right so I want I think >> five is fine >> level four I think it the threshold should be higher for the until it's blank slated So we could say um in that timebased
escalation there could be >> a third dash that says level four violations five years >> um
may be reset after five years. >> Fair. Another good point. Okay, that takes care of the plan types of license violations.
Right. >> Do we want to put in um this detail from Framingham plan into AI and then discuss it later or do you want to discuss it now?
What Emily suggested earlier? >> Um I would say um we can spend another 15 minutes tops and then >> pick what we like. I I like most of it, but
And and so when you say most of it, do you mean all the pages or just the sections that I noted? >> Section 16 to 20. Pages 17 to 20. >> So I might spend the last 15 minutes on
it. So base level offenses >> where you 17 >> that we've kind of already done. All right. So, we're good with that. >> So, that that's what we did with our levels like one through four there. >> All right. So, moving on to aggravate
aggravating uh factors. >> This is just very specific. >> It's kind of like we did that, too. >> Yeah. >> It's just more >> It's just more detail. >> I like miticated factors. We can go over that.
>> What it means to make multiple sales on the same location? Uh tell me where what where you're reading. >> So now I'm going to 18 number five. >> Multiple sales on same occasion. >> This one looks like it's uh
>> you can only sell so much alcohol. That's why >> uh selling to juveniles uh or people without proper IDs. >> So that looks to me like we're saying they made multiple sales to people they shouldn't have made sales to. Okay. So
whether we're talking juveniles or um intoxicated individuals, I read that as they did that to more uh multiple people on the same day >> on the same day or same incident. >> Mitigating factors is basically like do
we give them a little leniency because they cooperated once they got caught. >> Well, and and this is also in that mitigating factors when you're looking at like number one underneath mitigating factors, you're talking about reasonable rel upon an ID card. A as an
establishment, it is one of those things. If it looks like it's a real ID, it means you did your job for >> Yeah. Then they wouldn't be in front of us. I I think mitigating effect should be more do they accept responsibility? Have they already made steps to correct?
>> I agree. Now, in that, I do just want to say that when we have the more serious violations, um, sometimes we're we're talking about somebody where where, like you said, he's like, "Yeah, they fired all the staff, but we've had occasions before us
>> where the owner was there." So, yeah, you fired the staff, but you were the problem. >> True. But they do that. They do training. They do um >> Yeah, we've had some that have been very good that way. But the >> hired the waitress. I'm like, but you were managing this. >> You were standing there that day and
clearly the fact that all of that took place and you just stood there like normal. That's your normal course of business and you fired them. >> Yeah. >> Like I don't know if you think that we're not paying attention, but >> what about if they change the manager of
license? Like the owner changes the manager of license because they didn't comply with the rulings. would consider that as a mitigating factor. >> I mean, I I do think that that is a really good course of action. Um, if you had a if an owner had a manager that
wasn't following the rules that that >> How can they change that unless they go in front of us? >> They still have to come. >> Yeah, >> that's part of a process. But >> yeah, >> if they were requesting to do that, I think that that is >> yeah,
>> hugely beneficial. hired the manager >> and was managing themselves until they got another one. >> So, I would put that as an addition then, but we may consider. >> I like I like um I like A. I like B, but A never happens.
But I like it. I like B. >> Oh, I flipped again, so I don't know where you are. >> 18 page 18. >> That's the downside when you start looking ahead. >> Number two. >> Yep. um >> public acknowledgement.
>> Yeah, >> cuz sometimes they're like >> I don't really care if they prompt notice of decision not to contest charge. I don't really care if they do or they don't. >> Why would I care? >> We don't need that. >> Um >> I like the effective program. >> You like that?
>> Yeah. >> All right. >> Well, I don't >> C and E seems similar. What's the difference? >> Well, doesn't the ABC have training on their website? remember he mentioned >> I think in general we could say participation training whe that's
I mean I think you could combine >> yeah just back to the website >> yeah I don't think you need to have the separate broken out >> okay >> um >> alcohol compliance stings do that amazing
>> where she left >> wear like FBI jackets to a bar >> I mean This stuff is has anyway. >> I was working at an establishment once. Well, I've actually had it happen multiple times. I I was working at an establishment once where the bartender
failed the sting. Um because a girl came in and asked for a beer. >> I didn't cart her >> and he didn't cart her and he handed that beer across and in came the police. >> No, I feel like that's so I I wouldn't
feel comfortable managing this thing. Chelsea with such a good community. >> She's so good at it. >> It happens. It it really does tend to happen in every single community. Um most police departments will go through and execute those.
>> Um so it's it's it tends to be done by the >> by the police departments when they have >> Yeah, she had to step out like do you guys do I >> All right. So I think four and five are similar.
And this is a given attendance of the city. We just have to do that anyway. >> We could just say random compliance checks by >> But they don't have to agree to it. I mean, we can do that anyway, right? I don't >> Yeah. Please go walk in. Yeah. We don't need a permission. We don't It's >> Yeah. And we shouldn't tell them we're
going to do it. >> No. So, in the building world, we they they they agree to uh random inspections out of nowhere, you know, when they're in trouble. >> Officer Sean, we have a question. Last situation. >> Officer Chung.
>> Wait, wait, wait. Sergeant, >> Sergeant, sorry. >> Sergeant Chung, do you do um compliance stings? >> Compliance stings? Like, do we go out and >> bring an underage person or >> So, we
do that in conjunction with the ABCC. >> Okay. and yoga. >> So, um, like they mentioned at the training last month that it's not a deception technique, like they're not
going to go in and have somebody pretend to look youthful, >> you know, they're just >> somebody who's clearly underage, they're sending in bar and >> it's not for trickering. It's very it's a very obvious situation like you can
tell this person is under 21 and if that lency still chooses to serve this person um they'd be in violation >> I get in the um in one of the country clubs that I had managed they used to always when they would do it there was a
young man that would be sent in very obvious and he would walk up to the bar and request a bud And it it was it in our in the private country club world, it stands out like a giant red flag because we we know everyone in our
establishments, >> but you could see how if you walked into anywhere, it's clear that they're underage. Um so it is one of those things where you're just you're just catching that are they doing it normally or not. It's not
trying to be sneaky. >> All right, that's fair. And that's what ABCC said at at the at the meeting they held. They said, "We don't try to trick you. We're just going to send a person, not an underage person. >> They don't ID them. They're >> in violation." >> All right. So, we should just keep
random compliance checks without >> Yeah. I don't think we need any of that. >> Yeah. >> What does this mean? Previous violation. Same offense, different offense. >> We handled it our own way. >> Yeah. So, we don't need We don't need that. >> That's not That's not tagged. I thought we're just looking at what what
>> miscond either. >> All right. So then going down to the penalties, I think we we did that >> in our own way. And I think some of the phrasing that they have in that little paragraph um was a a good
um thing for us to note where it talks about how licences are advised that the following chart only represents guidelines >> uh for use by the chief of police and the board when making their respective recommendation and decision in response to a license violation. the board in accordance with the mitigating and
aggravating factors presented above retain the authority to deviate from these penalty guidelines where the circumstances are appropriate. So again making it very clear these are guidelines but it doesn't mean we have to follow that 100% to a tea. So I think
it's important for us to include something like that in there. >> All right. Um going on to page 20. I think we already decided the years without violations. Level one to three. >> This is offering relief, too. If you look at the second half of it,
>> oh, the relief. >> You can you can you can subtract days from the violation if they went five days without five years without a violation. >> Five days. >> Five years. Take two days off. Do we need that? I don't think we need that. We can just lower what we give them. >> Right.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't think >> it's it's over complicating that. >> Yeah. I don't think we need that. That's what I'm saying. >> I don't think so either. I think we simplified it >> when you said up to >> Yeah. level one, two, three, 24, but level four up to five years. >> So, we don't take this one.
>> Yeah. What's this bottom part right here? Personal injury. Jeez, this is for licenses. >> Where did you jump to? >> Well, you have while the board will endeavor to impose penalties upon
licenses. It's >> basically reserving your right to revoke someone's license for e even though I like that. That's that's it's a disclaimer. >> Yeah. >> Keep that. >> I think I was pausing when it says regulations resulting in serious personal injury or death.
>> Yeah. >> Well, because we do need to remember those things could happen, >> right? And a level one a level like a a first offense, you're not you're not going to give them a break if someone dies. >> Oh, I see. Okay. If it results into personal injury, >> say when they beat the guy with the with
the the chair. >> Well, the security guy hit somebody and it's and it's it's a serious they they break his back or something. We're not going to give them a >> you know slap on when something violent has occurred. >> Hopefully, they'll be arrested, too. >> Well, yeah, that's that's criminal. This
is also >> criminal. Yeah. >> All right. Does that sound good? >> And we did it in less than those 15 minutes. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> It helps when we have like a two-hour meeting and then >> Yeah, exactly. It does help. >> I was like, Okay. So, from there,
>> oh, where's my Here it is. Well, no, but I have to close the meeting. >> Okay. >> So, our next meeting is scheduled for October 9th, 2025. >> I think I'm going to miss that. >> I'm sorry. >> I think I have to miss that.
>> You have to miss that. >> I think I'm going to be away. >> Did anybody else know that they're here or away? >> October, I'm here. >> You're here. You're here. What is it? October 16th. >> Nth. >> I'm here. It's usually when we change it to like another week that I am always like, "No, I can't."
>> No, n I'm here. >> Okay. >> That's right before Columbus weekend. >> Perfect. I And I should should be here. >> Or indigenous day. >> So, with that being said, our meeting is adjourned. Thank you everyone.