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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=yeiZsD2EuLs

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Three. This is the August the 4th meeting of the police and fire pension boards. We'll start with roll call for police. Tommy Blair here. William >> here. >> Ethan here.

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>> Greg here. Dean >> here. >> All present. >> Very good. >> Okay. I'm AJ Anderson on the fire side. Um let's see. Stephen

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>> here. Laam >> here. >> Michelle >> here. >> And Dean is absent. [clears throat] Very good. >> Okay. Next item on agenda is public comment.

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Any public comment? Okay, we have the minutes from May the 2nd. >> Does anybody have a question about the minutes? >> Questions? >> I move to uh

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to accept the minutes. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Minutes. Minutes on the fire side. Do I have a motion to accept? >> Motion. Motion to accept. Second.

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>> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Next we have the expenses that were paid. Any any questions about those? >> Okay.

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We [clears throat] need a motion to approve those. I move to approve. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> opposed. >> Okay. On the fire side, everyone seen those. >> Motion to accept.

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>> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I second. Okay, we have proposed budgets for the coming year.

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Uh, anybody have questions about those? Just uh was there any supporting u uh information as far as the increase the 4% increase? >> They're by contract. >> Just by contract. Okay.

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>> Yes. >> David, I do have a question about the doctor item you mentioned. Is that just for an anticipation? >> No, that is the independent doctor. When we have this hearing, it's the independent doctor. would send him to

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and that's where we pay that money for them to determine if he's disabled or not. >> So that's in the event we have to send somebody. >> Yes. >> So we may or may not spend any of that >> sometimes, but we always send

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>> We always send somebody for getting hurt. >> I understand. >> It's always an expense. >> Okay. >> Anybody have any questions about the proposed budget? Need a motion. >> Need a motion for that. >> Move to approve.

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>> Second. >> All in favor? >> Second. >> Stanley. >> Okay. On the fire side, any questions on the proposed budget? >> No questions. >> Motion to accept. >> Motion.

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>> Second. >> All those in favor? >> Sorry. >> Sorry, Debbie. We're going fast. That's the only way you can keep up. >> Okay, Carrie, it's your turn. And I'm sure you brought up stock market results.

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>> You know, I did. Unfortunately, we gave back a little bit, but I think we're still in pretty good shape. >> Well, today is massive. >> Yeah. I mean, it's been incredibly volatile, especially this month. Um, but before I kind of get into anything, I want to introduce you all to James Reno. He's one of my colleagues at Mariner.

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He's also a consultant. So, I have actually taken on some management responsibilities at the firm now. And so, I'm adding James to the relationship to help me out. Um, and make sure that we've got some additional resources here. Um, so that you get to know him, I'm actually going to let him lead a lot of the discussion today, but obviously

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I'm here for support and for questions as well. >> Okay. >> So, James, I'm going to turn it on over to you. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Thank you. >> Reno, like Reno, Nevada. Nice. Nice and simple. >> But, uh, good afternoon. First off, I

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just want to say it's very good to meet you all and I'm excited to start working with your pension and start aiding Carrie um and all the support functions. Um but just a more formal introduction. Um again, I'm James Reno with Mariner. I'm a senior institutional advisor

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really covering primarily Florida public pension plans um across the state of Florida. I'm also like Carrie a CFA charter holder which is really just a premier designation in our industry for portfolio management as well as holds its members to one of the highest code

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of ethics standards. And uh finally, and this gets me in trouble sometimes down here in the state of Florida. Um but I have a background in economics from the University of Georgia. So go dogs to any college football fans out there. >> Okay, good deal. Good deal. Um but in

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all seriousness, very excited to work with you all. Um so we have a really nice performance update today. Um we do have a manager, Brandy Wine, as you know, that has had some near-term struggling and performance and Carrie will cover that um after I go through

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the performance update, but overall had a really potent quarter for the pension plan. Um so just turning the page to the market environment briefly on page three. You recall last year um it felt like we were always a tariff announcement away

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from the next market move and this year has kind of felt a little bit like deja vu but instead of tariffs being on the table we've had the war in Iran concerns about energy prices and really negotiations kind of on and off the table and we've kind of seen the market

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move in tandem with those negotiation talks. Um, and really the most important question heading into the second quarter was how would the war in Iran affect the global economy? How would ra rising energy prices affect the global economy?

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And as negotiations came back on board, we really saw a significant rebound in the stock market. And if you look at the top right hand box, um the top row S&P 500 or the US equity market um up a little over 15%. We haven't had that

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strong of a quarter in the US equity markets for six years. Um below that, if you look at the orange bar, the MSEIXUS or international equities um up 14.5% and US bonds were even positive and the

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red um below up almost 1%. Um so overall what we hope to see um positive and to the right um now we do have midterm elections coming up. um negotiations are still being worked on with the war in Iran. So there's still concerns about the straight of moves and as you

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were saying Tommy, we've been seeing movements in the market in tandem with that the last few days. Um and we also have this AI theme and this AI story that we're all watching closely to see who the winners and losers of that theme will be. Um so we still expect a lot of

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volatility, heightened volatility in this market. Um, so what I'm asking clients to think about and it kind of is my theme for this quarter is risk awareness and diversification. And when we look at your portfolio, I'll talk more about what I mean by that in a few

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pages. Um, but any questions on the broad market. Okay, we'll flip the page a few um to page 13. And we always like to highlight this page because it tells a long-term story of both the pension

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plans. Now, we have about 10 years of plan history on this page. And you can see the tan portion on the bottom is what you paid into the fund over the life of it. Um both um plans, if you look at the far right, um you'll see that market value. Um but that's without

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investment earnings. The blue line is your market value over time with investment earnings. And you can see by being prudently invested over the life of the pension plans um that that market value has grown significantly and both pensions hit new all-time high water

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marks um over this quarter um up over a little a little bit over $23 million um for the fire plan and just over $22 million for the police plan. So very nice performance over the quarter.

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Um turning the page to page 14 just to highlight the start and stop points over the quarter. Um you'll see in the top left hand corner um and I'll start with the fire plan. Um started the quarter at $21.6 million on the top right hand

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corner, ended the quarter at $23.2 million. So up about $1.6 million. This came after $300,000 in net distributions and $1.9 million in investment gains. Um for for the police plan on the top

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leftand corner started the quarter at $20.8 million and was up $1.4 million to $22.2 million over the quarter on the far far right hand side. Um this came after $400,000 in net distributions and

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$1.8 million in investment earnings. Any questions on that page? Okay, we'll move on to both of the plans asset allocations as of quarter end on page 19. So, so we talk a lot about historical

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performance, which is really important for evaluating our past decisions. Um, but when we're looking at a 7% return assumption, we want to see going into the future. This page right here will really determine whether or not we hit that target. And when I talk about risk

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awareness and diversification, all we mean by that is how are we positioned across each of the major asset classes. And you can see on this page, those green triangles, your allocations as of quarter end. Um, those are how you're positioned in all the major asset

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classes you're using to hit that return target as of quarter end. What we want to see is that you're reasonably close to those vertical black lines, your long-term targets. And you can see across the board um that both pensions are very well positioned, very much in

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line with your long-term targets. Um, I will highlight you do have a underweight to real estate. As ASB pays redemptions and Mavic starts to call and starts to raise more capital, we'll expect that to become more in line. Um, but we'll continue to watch that quarter after

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quarter. Um, but overall, um, both plans are very well positioned. Any questions on that page? Okay. So, moving on to overall results and performance for the plans. Page 22.

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So if you look at the first column, second row, the quarterly performance, um you'll see that the police plan was up 9%, the fire plan up 9.10%. So a very nice quarter for both plans. If you look at the fiscal year to date

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row, um both plans up about 9 12%. If you recall where you were last quarter, um last quarter for your fiscal year, it was the halfway point of your fiscal year. You were up 2/10en of a percent, largely flat through the fiscal year. Now we're three quarters out of four quarters on the way through your fiscal

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year and you're up nine and a half percent well above um both your return assumptions of 7%. So we do expect heightened volatility as Carrie said we've given some back since quarter end. Um but we like those odds going into the fourth quarter and hoping we have

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another this will be the fourth year in a row of very strong performance for the pension plans. Um and if you look at longer trailing time period performance, remember there's been some struggles in active management, domestic equity, real estate has also been a drag on

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performance. But overall, if you look at the 7-year and 10ear time periods up 8 and 9% respectively and if you just look at that 10-year time period, that means on average for the last 10 years, um both pensions have yielded um about 9%

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on average. Um, so really strong performance, especially if you're looking at that 7% return target and above average next to your peers, top 40% for both plans. Um, looking at the fiscal year-to- date column, just to get into some of the

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drivers of performance, um, you'll see domestic equity up a little over 10%. Um, you'll see Winslow. Um while they did struggle last year because of some of those big names like Nvidia and Microsoft, they weren't going to hold them to the degree the index will hold

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them. Um you'll see with some of the rotations we've had, they're really positioned more from the beneficiaries of the AI spin and that's starting to help and starting to uh starting to aid in performance as we've seen a lot of the hyperscalers. Thank Caterpillar, we

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need somebody to help build these data centers as these beneficiaries are starting to benefit. And I go into detail there because that's kind of the story throughout the remainder of performance and that's the main rotation we've seen in the markets year to date. Okay, looking at Touchstone, um that's

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been a very nice performer for the plan up 14% versus the benchmark up over a little a little over 3%. So nice outperformance there. um Vanguard extended uh market your your uh mid and small cap stocks um up a little over

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18%. Now Brandy Wine you'll see up 10% versus the benchmark up 20%. Um while historically was a performer for the plan you'll see um some of the near-term performance is starting to uh create it. So the three and 5 year and the

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sevenyear time periods are starting to lag their benchmark which Carrie will go into more detail today and talking about um potentially replacing that manager. Um looking at the next line item Vanguard equity income you'll see they are struggling fiscal year today up 12%

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versus the benchmark up 21%. Um but again just some short-term headwinds. Their style was out of favor over the last couple quarters. If you look at the since inception time period up 12.3% um that's been a nice performer um for the overall pension.

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Okay, turning the page to international equity. Um you'll see fiscal year to date international equity up 18.3%. um both uh managers have kind of worked in tandem um to pull weight for each

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other as each of those styles have gone in and out of favor and overall has created great performance um for the overall international equity segment. Um one thing I do want to highlight, you'll see Europacific growth has had some near-term challenges. If you look at the three and fiveyear, they're starting to

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lag their benchmark. Um, again, just because growth has been out of favor, you'll see DFA has more than um carried kind of that deficit. Um, but when uh me and Carrie were meeting with Capital Group, Europe Pacific growth over the last couple quarters, they've had had

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some changes to their portfolio management team. What we'd like to do is next quarter um just bring some options to review and kind of look more under the hood at what is going on over there. Um so just something to look at next quarter. nothing to do at this time.

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Um, looking at fixed income, um, domestic fixed income up 2% so additive to the overall portfolio. Global fixed income has also been additive up 2 and a.5% and ASB um, also real estate, we've

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seen liquidity return to that market and transaction activity pick up, so up also 4% over the fiscal year. Um, so overall it all rolls up into a really nice performance update for the overall pensions. Um, and we're we're very

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pleased with performance. Um, are there any questions about overall performance for the pensions? >> Uh, I did um I noticed that some I think you you have adjusted some of that uh the total fund figures were different on page 28

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>> um which you know where you've graphed them out. Um you have corrected those but the uh median uh figures are still not correct >> on page 28. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um the other thing and which I'm just

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going to wait until you discuss it. I was just concerned about the um the issues with um uh Brandy Wine but I was also thinking >> questions on that too. I was also thinking about the ASB and I feel that they're quite underperforming as well

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and >> yeah and and remember we have a full redemption to ASB so we are moving away from that strategy due to the nature of real estate and that it's illquid it just takes time to get out of those strategies just think about you're going to sell your house you got to wait for the right buyer um so we're kind of

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stuck and waiting with that time period but we are fully moving out of ASB >> yes >> um >> I'm thinking page page 28 he said the median peer groups were wrong >> Dean Dean could you go into more page 28

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what's standing out to you exactly on >> page so the um if you compare the total fund gross figures on page 22 >> got it >> with uh the

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lefthand uh graph numbers those numbers are the same now the investment and index numbers are right, but the median numbers are not. >> Okay, let me look at the >> So, the universe is maybe a little bit different and so we can look into that.

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We're using the total fund median kind of on 22. Um, it may be a broader sort of median on 28 and we can look into that. >> Yeah, great cash though. We'll go look with our team and make sure they're consistent. I I thought being a pre preliminary do uh document might not

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>> sometimes that happens because it does refresh about three times in a quarter too. So sometimes it can be timing on running that. Yeah. >> Um but we'll kind of double check that and and affirm you know that that's what we think it is at the next meeting or correct ourselves if if there's something. >> Yep. No problem.

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>> So thank you for that James. So we did hand out the Tommy report. We affectionately refer to as the Tommy report. Um we did give a couple percent of that about 9% back um due to some of the volatility and obviously the situation has heated up again overseas a little bit. Uh but I still think you're

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within sort of shooting range for that seven as we look to the end of the fiscal year. Keep your fingers crossed if things settle down. I think we're well positioned. Um but you know happy to answer any questions that you all might have about the interim updates as well. Um, and then if there are none, I do

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want to go back to Brandy Wine and we can reference the performance numbers that are on page 22. But just as a refresher for the boards, Brandy Wine is a quantitative strategy. Historically, um, they've sort of sorted the universe of large large cap value

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stocks and they've looked at the spread between sort of the most expensive quadrant and the least expensive quadrant. And they've had two models depending upon how big that spread was. they had sort of a broad model and a deep model. Um, and essentially a couple of years ago, you know, the market's been, as we said, very noisy. They

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switched a little bit early. Um, and that has cost them, but we've also seen some turnover from some folks on the sales side, one of which they let go, one of which left the organization. And Brandy Wine was um was acquired by Franklin Templeton a few years ago, and

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we're starting to see kind of the Franklin Templeton people get more involved in the background. Um, and then kind of add to that as well, they've recently tweaked their model and kind of made some changes there. And so I think when you think about the performance challenges, the organizational changes

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that we know have been there. And anytime a manager starts to talk about tweaking a model, it always kind of makes you, you know, makes you a little uneasy. Um, and so when we look at your portfolio, we say, you know, Brandy Wine was always your more quantitative manager. You've got Vanguard equity income there, which is mostly

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fundamental. There's a little bit of a quantitative piece to that, but twothirds of it is is more fundamental analysis. That's a very capable, very lowcost, you know, strategy that you've already got in the portfolio. I mean, I think it makes sense to terminate Brandy Wine and just utilize that Vanguard equity income

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fund. Um, but we are happy to show you some other options in that space if you all would like to continue to have two large cap value managers. U, but in summary, I do think it makes sense to move on. Our opinion has not changed on them at the mariner level, although they're under review, but I think it's possible that once that review is

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complete that our opinion does change on them. We're just trying to kind of get ahead of that. >> Um, question, [clears throat] please. >> Yes. >> Uh, what does does this have all the pages that the one that was distributed uh last week electronic

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>> via email? It should. Unless we had a printing hiccup, it should. >> Well, then it's just me. I I can't find it. But it seems strange that yes, we've discussed Brandy Wine in past past meetings as far as performance. It looked like rebalancing that was done between last quarter and this quarter,

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we still were adding money into Brandy Wine when you're now saying we were looking to >> you have a standing rebalance letter. Sometimes if there's money coming in, the custodian may automatically do that. Um we have not you know kind of directed any money there you know kind of to our

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part we have not directed any money there >> see yeah we have a company that we're have performance issues but it seemed like we're still putting taking funds from other accounts and putting them into random

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>> I can't find I've been looking >> to speak into the Thank. >> Yes. >> You want me to repeat? >> No, just when you're talking, go ahead. You're getting closer. >> I They scare me. >> Carrie, are you talking about moving the

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whole two and a half million or part of it? >> No, I would fully liquidate Brandy Wine. Um, and again, my proposal would be you've got Vanguard Equity Income. It's done a good job. It's pretty ine it's pretty efficient from a fee standpoint. I would fully put all of those funds into Vanguard Equity Income. That's my

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recommendation. So um on that though um it seems as though the the entire Russell 1000 portfolio is struggling yes across the board. So even with Vanguard so is that going to change how that's going to function or are we going to

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expect the same sort of numbers? >> So that's a great question. They just did a reconstitution and there were some more growthy names in that index that have come out. I think that will help quite a bit. Um but that technology piece has bled over not only from the growth side to to the the value side as

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well. Um and one of the factors that haven't has not done as well over the last few years is income. Um you know kind of dividend as a factor has not really contributed to to strong performance here recently. Um I do think some of that reverses. We've seen value come back into favor here again

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recently. I do think over the long term you know that income is a very important component of return in the value segment. Um so I don't think those challenges are forever. I just think you know technology has been such a pervasive part of really all market performance over the last few years.

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>> Um just on that then um why is it that windslow seem to be performing so much better even though they are part of the Russell 1000 >> growth is their style and that has the piece the semiconductors the hardware um the industrials as James talked about that have done really well with the AI

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buildout. Yeah. and they tend to move yin and yang. You know, when that segment's doing well, value trails and vice versa. And we've seen that even over the last couple quarters. >> All right. Thank you. [snorts] >> So, those two pieces are definitely yin and yang. >> Yeah. >> So, [snorts]

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uh where are you proposing to go with the money? My proposal is to fully terminate Brandy Wine and to use Vanguard Equity Income as your sole Russell 1000 value manager. So to take 100% of the proceeds from a full termination of Brandy Wine and use those

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funds to purchase more Vanguard equity income. >> Um, conversely, we are happy to show you other value managers on our roster if you'd like to see those at our next meeting. >> What percentage does that make them of the portfolio then? Is that too too many eggs in one basket? So that's going to put over five million in that one.

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>> I have concerns too with the K-shaped economy right now. Does it make sense to have two growth funds and then only one value fund? I mean I would think possibly two two value funds might be a

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little bit more beneficial right now. >> Yeah. And we're happy to show you some others for sure and we obviously can include Vanguard equity income in any analysis. caution with that, you know, possibly leading into a recession where we're going with the war. Um, I do think the value is still a good good stable

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option by pushing it all into one fund. >> Does that create more risk for us with the uncertainty of where we're at right now with global economics? >> It tends to be a higher dividend sort of north of 3% which is always kind of a good defender in in times of a downturn. And it's a very diversified strategy of,

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you know, call it a couple hundred positions. So, it's not super concentrated like you've seen on the growth side. But that said, I mean, we have other managers. I mean, Newton comes to mind. There's some others on that roster that are also really good options, and we're happy to just host that discussion.

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To follow up on what Michelle said, when the war started, every time there was action taken, the market took a big hit. Then over the last few weeks, it seems like when there's a big hit on the war,

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the market kind of reacted a little bit, but not like it did earlier. And it's kind of like, well, the market's got used to this, so what? Just keep going. Is that [clears throat] would that be the opinion of your firm that >> it's hard to say what tomorrow brings? I

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mean, you know, if you see a deterioration in our economy and there's bad news from a war standpoint, you might see more of a a sell-off. It's just it's so hard to say. The one thing I will say is corporate earnings have been incredibly strong. >> Yeah, the economy seems >> even across sectors, not just in

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technology, which is pretty incredible. Um, but that said, you know, there who's to say that one headline in particular might really resonate or you see a lot of selling and profit taking and that can kind of drive markets down too. It's hard to say it'll be benign. It'll be benign, you know.

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>> Well, I think there's going to be more war. >> I think so, too. I mean, I I I don't feel that we're moving towards a long-term sustainable. So, there's a lot of talking about it, but I haven't seen a lot of sort of material updates of progress in my opinion.

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>> But to your point, we do see record gains. I mean, look at Exon and Shell. There are record profits this quarter ever. So when we but again you know I just caution with with putting everything into one value index. >> Well I don't know anything about how

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strongly into all companies any of these funds are. >> So they tend to issue dividends. I can tell you likely the names Michelle issued are very likely on the roster for Vanguard equity income. They like even you know Microsoft has a nice dividend. Some of the financials JP Morgan Chase

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etc tend to be on their top. But but energy producers on the whole tend to have decent dividends and so I think it's reasonable to expect some if not all of those name are likely in play in that fund. Of all the sectors energy is one of the ones that tends to have highest dividends overall. So that tends to be a good

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>> So the exchange that you're proposing would be put into effect immediately. >> What I proposed would Yes. We would be able to effectuate it very quickly. Yes. >> Uh you can sell all that. It's not like the roast. You can sell it all any day you want. And

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>> yes, it is an ETF format which is daily liquid. >> I didn't know uh due to the amount of money involved if that was uh could all be done at once. >> Yeah, that's minimal. >> That's no money to them. I guess >> no. [laughter]

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>> Right. >> Is it five, six million? No. [laughter] >> Oh, >> do we have any more questions? 2.7 >> just are you when are you going to you said you had a >> 2.6 could come up with an alternate proposal where we had two too value.

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>> Yes. >> Would that How long would that take? >> We would do that probably at your next meeting. We could bring that to the next meeting. Yes. >> Say that again. >> Um looking at alternative value managers, we would bring those to your next meeting for discussion. >> Thoughts? >> But if we vote to do this today, you

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will do it immediately >> if you want to move entirely to Vanguard. Absolutely. Yes. >> And that's your strong recommendation? >> It's my recommendation. I'm very comfortable. If you want to look at other value managers as well, >> I mean, we could always just pull the

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pull the chain on this one and then look at maybe diversifying some of the funds out. >> You could absolutely you could essentially do both. >> Are there any expenses involved going in and out of these funds? >> No, there's no expenses to sell. It's just you're at the mercy of whatever the market's doing when you're selling, if

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that makes sense. >> Expense in buying. >> No, we don't bring you funds that have kind of upfront fees. >> Yeah. beyond just the ongoing management fee. >> Well, we pay you to give us advice, so

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it only makes sense to follow the advice. >> I agree with that. >> So, we need a motion to do this. >> Any questions on our side? >> Yes. before. So rather than wait till the next

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next meeting, >> uh you you suggest that we make this move now and we can adjust again at the next meeting if >> yes, if you would like to cut Vanguard again and add a different manager, you could do that. Yes. After having moved away from Brandy Wine in the next couple

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days now. >> Okay. Well, I think that's a good thing to look at because >> uh you are putting a significant portion of our assets in one fund >> and >> and that's what I just wanted to to have on record. >> It might be good at the next meeting to

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at least have some alternatives that maybe you're uh in favor of. >> You want a motion to >> Yes. Then I I move that we go ahead and accept your immediate proposal to Okay. divers, you know, get rid of Brandy Wine

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entirely, but with the option that next meeting you provide some diversifying approach to >> second. >> All in favor? >> I >> Okay, on the fire side, uh, all those in

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favor of exiting Brandy Wine at this point now. >> Yes. >> And then next meeting we will review things again. Motion motion. >> I'll second. >> All those in favor? >> I

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>> Very good. We will make it. So, Debbie, we'll get some letters to you in very short order to get that to get that to take place. >> Um, and that's really it from us unless there's any other questions or items from the boards. >> I I've got some questions about the um

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checklist at the back of the document. >> Yep. Can you uh so there's a at least half of the uh compliance checklist is a no. It's not compliant, >> right?

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>> Can you um talk us through those and explain how we're going to adjust that compliance stuff? >> Yeah, and I think some of that Dean has taken place probably before you joined us. Um, but James mentioned a couple of themes and really they're they play in

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significantly to the nose here, especially as it relates to kind of benchmarks and absolute returns. One of which is real estate. Most of our funds do about 10% in real estate. When I came on board with with this board in mid 2022, they had taken the real estate

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from 10 to 15%. Um, the Fed raised rates in 2022 2023 real estate saw a 20% pullback. If most most plans are at about a 10% allocation, you all are at 15. That was significantly a detractor. ASB also just

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as a company had some issues um particularly with kind of the age of their office properties, some of which they've been able to sell, which is why they kind of had a nice little near-term rebalance. Um but the weight in office and then we had challenges and large cap growth like a lot of plans did. We had a manager called Allspring that fell

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behind as technology has really led. Um, so we replaced them with Winslow. Um, those two things in my mind are really kind of the biggest drivers here. Um, and and you know, large growth and real estate have been the the most significant headwinds that we've had and we've made changes there. It just takes

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a long time to sort of, you know, turn the boat around. Unfortunately, we are getting distributions back from ASB. We added Mavic, which is a real estate debt strategy, whose coupon is in the double digits. That's been a kind of a good place to be. it just we need them to ramp that up of our million-doll

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commitment. They've taken about 150,000. So, it just takes time for them to source those deal and call our capital. But really, those two themes, overweight to real estate, especially as real estate's had a 20% correction over the last kind of five years. And then challenges in the large cap growth space in particular are the places that have

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really caused a lot of the nos that you see here. >> Okay. So, um with turning the ship then when can we start seeing some of the changes? So, I think, you know, if you let's go back to your performance page here, and I think, you know, so far this

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year, you're you're um off to a good start. Um you know, your longer term numbers are still very good, but I think it's going to take probably another year, year and a half. Okay. >> You know, to really to let everything play. >> Yeah.

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Carrie, are we I'm not sure if this is the same subject that Dean's talking about or not, but I I I do remember somebody, whether it was David or or you in one of the recent meetings or I say within the last year, the the number of hires paying into the fund matters as

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well, right? Yes. >> And some of that as far as the three to five year benchmarks and if you do the math, it wasn't fun to be a cop anymore at a certain year. You know what I mean? wasn't chic anymore, if you will. And we're starting to see some of that change as well. So, I I continue to hope to see that.

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>> Yeah, definitely from an actuarial standpoint, that's going to help quite that's going to come around again as well. Yes, that's going to be very helpful. >> All right. Anything else? Thank you for the time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you,

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>> David. We're ready for you. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. >> Good afternoon, everyone. Uh first just a couple things I want to say. I'm very pleased with the discussion with uh the deliberation concerning Brandy Wine, the decision to follow the advice of your of your investment consultant. Um I think

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it was very wise decision and reasonably taken. Um, also I I want to address as well um Dean the the the um remarks that you had regarding the uh checklist and we would like I would like to ask for

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authorization to work with um to work with Mariner and see if we can go through the because some of the issues on the on the checklist may also be matters that should be addressed in the investment policy statement. Um, so we'd like work with Mariner and see if we go through the investment policy statement

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and see if there's anything that that needs to be changed. >> Yeah. I was wondering how old that document might be, whether or not it needs to be reviewed. >> Yeah. So that um that might be helpful as well. >> So if we um if we can have a motion for that, we'll work with with Mariner and Carrie and and and get something um to

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propose at the next meeting. >> Typically every twoish years, Dan, two to three. I think your IPS is 2024. >> Okay. um just to give you that idea, but I think I mean that from my standpoint that's reasonable. >> I'll propose that I'll motion that we

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review that. >> David, do you have any comment on that? >> No, that's it's fine with me if they want to work together on that. >> You're in the unique position of [laughter] of >> I just get the paperwork

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>> and also being a recipient of the fund. So, you're you're very involved. [laughter] I know I don't have a problem with it. >> Does the budget cover that? >> The budget if depends on >> Oh, not on the >> Yeah, because it probably Yes, it's

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going to cost on his side and it's going to right now mariner still under their contract until next year. So, it will be cost from the attorney side. Yes, >> there may be some cost. >> Do we have an estimate on cost? I think we can go through and uh I would say

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maybe three to four hours come up with something. Yeah. >> At your at your rate. >> Yes. >> Yes. [laughter] >> I'd forgotten. Yeah. [laughter] >> Don't forget that.

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>> Okay. Do we have a motion for David to proceed? I have a motion that David will review the document as as necessary. Um >> the document is the >> the investment policy.

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>> Investment policy. Yeah. >> I'll second. >> Second. All in favor? >> I on the fire side. Do we have a motion to proceed? >> Motion. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I

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>> I >> Great. Okay, thank you very much. Um, other than that, just on from a legal standpoint, nothing in immediately uh relevant to the to the plans we have um we are looking at a couple of things. One, there's um the Department of Labor

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uh is has is proposing new ESG regulations. So, regulations regarding the use of or or the kiteration of environmental, social, and and governance issues and investment decisions. Of course, in Florida, we already have um you may recall a couple

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of years ago, Florida uh adopted an a no ESG law basically prohibiting us to take those sorts of issues into consideration in our invest in our investment decisions. But interesting enough, we also have um under chapter 112 of the

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Florida statutes, ORISA standards are incorporated. So if there's So we'll have to take a look at these new ESG regs that came from the that are that are coming out from the Department of Labor and just go through and make sure that there's no um that there wouldn't

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be any conflict or or um uh for for for our investment decisions. So that's um so these the we know that the the um proposed regulations were sent to the White House um a couple weeks ago and we're expecting them to be promagated pretty pretty soon. So, we'll go through that's not a that's a no billing item

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for you, but um uh just uh something we're looking at and we'll advise you if if we see in there any problems or anything that we need that will require us to work with Mariner um in in terms of our investments. Um and other than that, another issue that um you may have

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heard um about recently is cyber security. Um you may have yeah there's some discussion that started really in the private sector um during COVID when the department of labor um sort of became concerned that with so many people working remotely during COVID

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that um that maybe fund assets and personal identifying information could be compromised. So, the DLL came out um back in 2020 with um some sort of best practice uh uh guidance um and then they

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updated it in 2024 and now we're starting to look at it in the public sector as well. So, just wanted to let you know that we're we're looking at that and we're internally sort of working on recommendations and policies to put into place and so um we'll have

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some some some items for you to consider at the next meeting in that regard. >> Yeah, I believe uh foster and foster with Doug, he was going to do that at the last meeting. Okay. But he's we got it scheduled now for December 1st. >> Okay. So, Doug is going to he has Yes, I know I know the foster and foster has been presenting on the issue as well.

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So, we can we can Yeah. So that'll be present for the December meeting. >> Yes, this is December. >> So we'll I'll work with Doug as well and make sure we coordinate on that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, because he's going to do the um experience study. He had a conflict today for this. So we got to switch it

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to December 1st. >> Okay, great. And that's um otherwise that's uh that's all we have for today. That concludes our report. >> Okay. The only thing I have is that they do have the 55th police and fire pension conference coming up in September. It's

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free. Um, now I've went ahead and signed up for it. Andre >> Greg's signed up for it. >> I'm signed up as well. I had a question. Is it free if you drive each day or do you have to stay at the hotel? >> You don't have to stay at the hotel. Just keep

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>> I haven't made a decision yet, but I'm registered. >> Okay. Cuz I just keep your mileage because we'll pay for your mileage. Okay. >> And all that and your food. >> We'll pay for your food, your mileage, and if you stay at the hotel, we pay for the hotel. >> We'll do. >> Okay. >> What is the

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>> September 14th? >> 15 to 17. >> 15 to 17. >> Yeah. 15 to 17. >> Yeah. 15 to 17. >> And they come the night before and they have usually something going on, but >> 15, 16, and 17 is when it is. >> Do you have to dress up?

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>> No. Casual. [laughter] Put my Donald Duck costume away. >> I get you some attention. >> That's acceptable. [laughter] >> Okay. >> All right. >> The next meeting is set December the 1st. Same place, same time.

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>> I'd like to uh welcome Ethan Howler to the board here. >> Absolutely. >> He's one of our up andcoming supervisors and I'm excited to have him here. >> Say that for the record. Didn't Ethan, weren't you on the board a while back? >> Yes. >> Yeah, I thought you were. Yeah,

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>> that's what I remember you saying. >> Yeah. >> Well, welcome aboard again. >> Second. >> Everybody wants to adjourn. >> Motion to adjurnn on the fire side.

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All [clears throat] those in favor? I