The meeting will come to order. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
The bureau compi complied with the notice provision of the sunshine law by adopting prior to January 10th of this year a resolution prescribing the date, times, and locations of all regular meetings to commission. This meeting is one of the meetings listed in such resolution resolution whereby January
10th filed with the burough clerk. So I believe just to correct the record uh this was a separately noticed meeting because it is a special work session meeting. >> Um so this is going to work a little differently than our and it's our first
one. We're ironing things out. Uh but we're going to start with public comment and then the commissioners will get into the posted agenda and work on it from here. Um so if there's anything that people have for public comment this is the time to do that
and there will be no public comment at the end unlike you know we have at the end of resolutions and then ordinances during uh commissioners meeting that's not how working meetings generally function. Yeah just curious any um word on anyone moving into the WAWA writing
space. There is uh there are things in motion for the wall space. Uh stay tuned to the planning board agenda. >> Thank you. >> So close. So, I'm going to move to close public comment.
>> Does that require a second? >> Yeah. Great. >> And you can start with your agenda items. >> Okay. We just read through them and then go down. >> Sure. So, just in general, this is a work accepted meeting. It's less formal than your typical council or
commissioner meetings. Um, there's a number of items on our agenda today. These are just topics that the commissioners and administration have asked that we uh that they discuss. These are, you know, a discussion that's going to be among the commissioners and
um administration. It's not a back and forth with the audience. Um you guys are just here to see, you know, how things get to where they end up. It's it's a work in progress. A lot of these discussions, nothing here is finalized. there's going to be no formal action
taken at these meetings with the exception of, you know, a resolution if we have to go into executive session at the end. Um, but even if we do go into executive session at the end, there's going to be, again, nor the normal action taken, um, all votes on
resolutions, ordinances will still be at your typical uh, monthly commissioner meetings. So, do we have can we like just go through them by point and we have to like go over the full agenda and then go
this this is kind of a creation of what you got to do and everybody has the agenda. Yeah. >> All right. So, uh each of the commissioners put different things on the agenda. So, you'll probably see whoever put it on the agenda lead whatever that topic is. Um I mentioned I
just wanted to talk a little bit more about the master plan steering committee. Um, if we're going to be going out for master plan in 27, the idea is to do as much leg work as we can in 2026 and do as much public feedback and um, we have so much information that
already exists in this town. We have the right master plan, we have connect 2020. Um, and there's just a lot of information we already have. And when you bring in an outside group to do a master plan, they can spend a lot of time and money doing like reconnaissance
on the present state of the town. Uh, so it is my goal to open up like an application period probably the month of February. Um, have it on the website, on social media. Um, and this is a come one come all. If you are a planner,
engineer, or someone who just has a voice and you want to make sure that you are sharing what you would like to see in the over the next 30 years of the town because that's the lifespan of a master plan. Our last one was written in 1999. Um, this is a committee for you.
There will be an executive there will be an executive group uh executive committee in that working group but it's going to be a lot of leg work to make sure that we talk to a lot of people in town about what they want to see in the future. Um it's great to like come to the senior
center and put up your little dots as to what you want to see and where you want to see it but there's a lot of other ways to interact and to get people's feedback who maybe won't come out to a meeting. So, the more people we have on this committee willing to do that leg work, have these conversations, um, it's
going to make the meat of what the master plan becomes reflect people who live here a heck of a lot more. Um, so I just want to kind of explain more to my fellow commissioners about what the idea was behind that steering committee. Is something that we've talked to uh to
Adam board for example doing affordable housing was about like the idea of having a chapter an affordable housing chapter in our master plan. So having, you know, someone with a half affordable housing as part of the exterior committee, someone with a sustainability hat, um, you know, >> so, so is the idea, I mean, typically
the way these get done is is you bring bring a fur. >> Absolutely. >> You bring somebody on and then they >> guide you through. >> So are you a couple of firms? >> Not do it like >> No, we will do that. But I come to a couple of firms and if we can write an
RFP that is already guided and already has like we already have this, we already have this, the community has through our own engagement um has already really narrowed in on these five topics of expansion. These
are the things they care about. walkability. You know, these are things that we have time and time again found amongst a big enough group amongst our population that these are things that people are asking for and we share that information and it's already in the RFP.
So when people when firms are responding to RFP, they already have to create, they already have to show ideas. It's not just a blanket, it'll cost this much if you want this many chapters. And if we put more u I've talked to two or three different firms already and different planners that if you put more
of that work into your RFP even just responding to the RFP is going to come with creativity and ideas. >> So the idea that the steering committee guides the process of writing the RFP >> and what is the timeline for that?
>> The whole year >> 2026 >> the whole 2026 because it's not in the budget. It would be for you know budget 20. >> If a member of the public is applying they are applying to volunteer for the year of 2026 to contribute to the steering committee which will create an
RFP. >> Do you have an idea of what the time commitment is? How often they >> So that's why I wanted to say there is there going to be an executive committee. >> Okay. you know, uh, and if you just want to help because you want to hear what's going on and you want to be informed and maybe you're more of a listener than you
are of, um, then that's fine. But if you also are a retired planner or an engineer or really committed to bike safety and walkability and you want to make sure that that component is really well represented, then it's really a
matter of how much people want to put in. I don't want to limit someone who can only, you know, maybe do it once a month for an hour and then go, I can't do it. That that's still okay. They'll get updated with the work of of the larger group. U is a member of what what
you're thinking in terms of burough staff. Uh I mean I I was feasible or not or were you I was you >> I can take notes at all the meetings and share >> Yeah. But I I I hear you but like the
the way they usually get done is like you got somebody like the RP is not that big like it's it's not that complicated. and sounds like they can try to do do most of the master plan before you go out and hire somebody to do the master plan.
>> You're so what happens is I've talked because of the different firms that I've talked to essentially the because you're paying for their hours, right? you're paying for a consultant to come in to write your RFP and they can either spend the 250 hours it takes to do it like sending out surveys and talking to the
people in your town and getting a sense of >> write the RFP then they're hired to do that plan I understand that but if and I've had this confirmed from two separate planners at two separate firms if we do this level like here here's all
the information on on our demographic that exists here's all the information on walkability in this have that already that's here and we give them that already organized and like set out in chapters then what the work that they will do and they will charge us for the
next 200 hours is going to be a heck of a lot more nuanced and they're not have to spend hoos going to tell them they're have to read it they're not find it so it saves time
and it helps it lets people in fully as opposed to having two or three meetings where a consultant firm comes out, puts on a party here and asks people. It gives you a full year to have the space and the time to talk to a lot more
people so that their voices are uh their voices are included in in essentially what's going to become the master plan. >> How much does a master cost? >> Quarter million. How much we're north how much could this potentially save up
by having this public I was told they could save at least $50,000. Okay. >> So here here my skipping through this is that public participation process you go through. Part of the idea behind the master plan is you bring in a planning
firm to hear what everybody has to say what their thoughts are and then apply their expertise and decide >> absolutely >> this is what we should do. So if they're if they're if they're not part of that
information gathering process, >> they're going to get all the information. >> It's guided. No, I know. All right. >> But they don't have to host the event. They don't have to fly out here from Michigan to host an event. Like they are here like we're going to give it to them. We're going to do that for them. And if they have to have more and they
have to do more of that, they want to go deeper into a certain certain topic or that the topics that they propose are already based on, oh, we got this kind of feedback throughout a year at a bunch of different events that these are things, so let's be more targeted about
what we have. And in a town that is home to a lot of planners, um I think this is something that could really give people an opportunity to shape the future of this town, not just us and not just the planning firm.
>> The public participation is of course interesting, but I think the money savings is also interesting. Um if it would potentially save money over the long run. Um how many people are you anticipating on set? I don't want to say if people want to
offer their time, I'm not going to say no to that. >> So any member of the >> absolute executive committee will probably be five or six people, a planner, someone with including yourself, >> including myself. Um, a planner,
someone from affordable house, like an affordable housing hat, a sustainability hat, um, someone from the district, schools and schools and children. um open to what else should be on like the exact committee. That was just kind of
what I thought about. But any other thoughts on what other components or sections of town we should have had included in that are I think it'll be interesting to put it out to see if members of the public are interested see what we get in terms of
applications. Certainly when we put out applications for planning board um see what was it 14 or 15 or 16 for >> so it be interesting to see what the interest is in this level of participation of a master plan um
and what the time commitment might look like because I think sometimes if if we can think through in that application this is what we're asking you if it's a once a month commitment with this many hours we're looking for this skill set this kind of thing then people feel that their voices will be heard not that it's
just a random meeting but that this is something they're applying for and that there are clear asks of the skill set in town. I think that would be useful. Um well those applications go to you they can go to all of us. I mean it doesn't but um anybody's in so they're applying
but that's more it's more it's more like depend if if you have if your background is in creative arts then you know that's different than if you have you're a retired planner of 40 years right like you're going to have a different skill
set to offer this process um so I think it just depends on what what is you want to help or if you just want to come and give your ideas which is also entirely okay >> and it does not supersede the entire master plan process at all. >> This is all part of it. This is just
like getting started. This is a pre this is a pre master plan. >> It's a pre-plan. It's just the it's the lead work that ultimately the consulting firm will do. But if we can give it to them then they will spend their time
doing more things for the burough and we will do the lead work for them. to save potential >> and save money. >> Yeah. Or get another chapter out of it, right? As opposed to, well, we're not going to do affordable housing because we only are going to do these three or four chapters because that's what the
budgets allows for. But if we do some of the prep work, maybe we can afford to do an additional chapter and it still comes the same final price as it would have originally been. >> So, to go back for a second, that's a little bit different than what we were just saying. So um if you're asking I
mean will members of the public be helping to write the chapter? >> No that's all the firm that gets fired. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? So you would have applications in February with the idea
of starting March. um night park improvement committee. So, there's $2.5 million in the uh in the recreation bond that set aside for night park which has >> it was >> it was in all meetings that you were
present in Jen. We talked about it. >> It's it what do you mean it's set aside? It's not for set aside. 15 million for for >> right and two and a half million and all the presentations that we gave burrowwide was set aside for night park and it's on
all the presentations that are on the website that we presented >> the meetings that you that were done like in November December last year. >> Is that what you're talking about? Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So that's $2.5 million. Um that doesn't have that we said we were going to get
a group. You said you were here. >> Yes. >> How would you >> We haven't taken any official action about that at all. >> Well, we've taken the you've taken the official action of the ordinance the 15,
>> right? We have that now about how we're going to spend it. Um and two and a half million is what had been discussed for night park without any sort of breakdowns because the you know the breath master plan had a lot of
ideas for night park a lot which would cost you know way more than even the 15 million. So the idea was to, you know, have someone from the park board of trustees, school, burrow, um, stable commonwood to try to build out
how to use that money, um, and what everyone's priorities were for the park. >> Okay. Any thoughts? >> Well, I I just think it should all, if you know my people, I think it should all be a more comprehensive plan. This
kind of ties into stuff we're going to talk about close, but it's it with respect to the fields, the park, it should be all be done, you know, together, not
fields, schools put their own plan together. We just write them a big check. Park, we have a different group that comes up with what's done on the park. It should be done collaboratively comprehensively. That's how I want to get done. Not segmenting at all.
>> All right. It >> just doesn't make sense that way. Forbidden. >> All right. So, I hear you on that. And that's why this is supposed to be a collaborative approach to figure out how to spend the money that's going into that park, which is this chunk.
>> Listen, I know that's the number that you've decided that is going to go there. You the schools decided that a certain number is going to go to this. You're going to write a check to them and you're going to put this much into the plan. >> We're not going to be writing a check to school. We're >> just to be clear because when you say things like that, people think we're writing a check to which we're not.
>> Well, the schools are doing their plans now for the rent. They're doing that. >> Yes. >> And we're not involved. >> That's not >> Okay. Well, then I'm not aware that we're involved with that. How are we involved with that? Betty Joe and Beth Anne are talking
about the plans for the for the fields behind the school. So our CFO, so I run public works and public property and our CFO is who is working with the the uh board what secretary is her name is
their is their title with that band and that's the collaboration over what the fields are going to be like what it's going to be. >> They have been this district has been working with RV. They also they have the same engineer that we have for plans on what that is going to look like working
within the budget of the bond that you've that you've seen you've seen these plans these plans were in the par >> the same referendum plans >> the ones that we had at the meeting we had in October with the fields with the they changed how much it was going to be
turf with the main field there were what six meeting I I was able to go to a few of them I remember that you were invited I'm not sure that you attended? >> I did not attend any of them. No, I did not. >> So, put on >> No, I didn't go I didn't go to the meeting. So, I did see what these plans. >> They're also on the website.
>> Okay. >> All right. Well, thanks. I'll look on the websites like this. >> Yeah. >> So, and and it's it's what presented to you in the room with us and everyone. Yes. It should be a plan that's put
together by moments. not the plan that Fred presented to us. And so that's what we're doing. >> We change anything in your discussion. Has anything changed? >> Yes. >> From what they what's changed? >> Uh we are no longer going to be tearing
down the convent sheepard and that money is going to be used to pay for the air conditioners in this building and to help uh the playground at night. So we're not going to build a playground there. Okay. Well, it's good to good to learn that.
>> Good to learn that. >> So, in that >> How about the fields? The plan that they gave you for the fields. Has anything changed with that? >> So, what so breath here? >> So, there were six meetings that involved participation. We also had boxes with information where people can
give feedback and um that feedback was collected by the district and Daniela and uh for example, there were changes that were made to her. there was input that was involved. We s that she looked at that input uh in order to look at the plants in order to collaborative
collaboratively create the plans together which again particular that this the turf that's going to be used doesn't have infill. uh like it doesn't have there's no pellets, there's no it's literally all like there's no
little droplets of anything. Um the way that you think of that black stuff that's you know trapped all over your house, this field will not have that. There is no infill. So a lot of the concerns about water runoff and the infill going into Newton Creek, there is
no infill. there's nothing to be >> I remember I was copied on several emails that were health concerns about the turf and so I spent quite a bit of time researching it and looking into and I know you did research as well as the school district on what alternatives could be all part of those meetings one
meeting that was specifically on the and what changes can be made to address health concerns I'm sorry you weren't there Okay. >> So, what's your plan for this committee? So, sizing committee
um is it anyone can participate with an executive committee or what are I think if anybody has very specific concerns if they would like to be on this committee then they can. I'm not sure. Again, it all depends on if you have eight people raise their hands or three, right? And
if it's three, then it's someone from the district, someone, you know, from the bureau, someone from DPW. um you know and talk some work with the board of trustees um certainly would hope somebody from um Doug Robinson would help break connect 2020 would have
a presence because that's such an important aspect to to the park um with walkability and uh whatot also a public call for volunteers u with an application with the idea of
starting in March and a timeline of Right. So both of these we would share at the February commissioner meeting to ask for a participation. What is um is are you also thinking like a monthly participation for this one?
>> I think this one is so you know we have another question at hand is to of the $15 million bond how much are we going to borrow now? Um, so I know that uh when I talked to to Mike Brennan, he had two big concerns. I think that he, you know, the night
Christies wanted drainage and uh and looking at how the field are positioned in the park, whether you know the it sounds like the fields are where they are because that's where they came like they just kind of sprouted up. It wasn't there ever fields. >> Yeah. There was never a design like an
engineer never looked at night park and said, you know, if you want to get x amount of fields and you you should have this here given given drainage and given where grass doesn't grow or does grow or water pools, you should have the sock two soccer fields here and then you put it like that's was never done. The
fields are where they are because that's where they sprung up. or at least that's what he shared with me and that he thought that would be a value and something that we should do if you know with limited funds something that would be a help for the park as a whole would
be to um do that kind of an assessment and that was one of his one of his ask of that and then drainage with some big spots um of water concern so that for example that's what he shared that would be the the trustes focus and how they
want to spend the money and I'm sure if you talk to people from connect 2020. They have different things that they want to spend the money on, but um the only way to and you know the rec master plan unfortunately has so so much in there. We've really got to um narrow down what are going to be the
priorities. So instead of that being a decision just for the three of us, I thought there should be >> So um as far as their directive for a committee and their time commitment and what you're agreeing to do, um what would you say is the objective of that
committee to make recommendations to the governing body? >> I would say so. Yeah. As to how to to break down >> by the end of 206 >> or sooner. I mean it's I think it depends on >> Okay. And what about leading that
committee and or step? >> Um I mean Jim, we'd originally talked about night park being Jim's part of the rep plan was was working on night park. So you know >> willing to >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. Um and then see how that >> how that gets done. So applications in February should go to Jim as well. She should send everything to the clerk. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> And she has to off packet and then present it to you guys for >> review. Perfect. Okay. All right. there. So, the creative committee was founded in 2019. Um,
and then the co hit and the story that I got was it just it never really got there was a couple of meetings here and there but never really got off the ground. Um, so a member of that committee reached out to me at the beginning um being like,
"Hi, there was this committee. Hey, I was on honor with these people and I would like to to do the things that we said we were going to do in that committee. Um, so thanks to a very committed group um that wants to rename themselves as opposed to the creative
committee, the College of Civic Arts and Design Council. Um, >> that's catchy. >> Yeah, we work pretty hard on that. >> I think Yeah. Yeah. So, >> CA what? >> Cathedral. Yeah, it's a lot of Okay, so I'm going
to read the purpose of it real quick. A lot of this come from the original, but the College of Civic Arts and Design Council replaces the earlier established creative committee, a subcommittee of the Burough Collins. Um, it's an advisory committee. The purpose of this group is to develop ideas and methods
for utilizing the arts, visual and performative, as an economic and social driver for an engaged community with the goals to foster partnerships with public and private sector entities to build on the engagement fostered by the committee to create an effective framework for artists and communities to genuinely
collaborate on public art projects and events and to empower local artists by developing resources to keep them informed of opportunities. So um we had talked >> I have I need a copy
>> I will send this to you Dr. Um so can I take a quick time out? You know we had had a really helpful discussion in September it time is weird. Um ad hoc committees formal committees. So this is advisory
>> advisory committees. >> None of these are really everything we're going over is just >> advisory committ but there was a resolution but there was an appointment. Okay. >> Yeah. And that's what so advisory committees such as the health services
board, they make recommendations. These committees come with no budget. The idea is that any of these because like I grew up Presbyterian, this is even like a lot of committees for me. Like all of a sudden we have all these committee opportunities. Um but I think it's important to say like this is what we're looking for with public participation.
So this you know so it's an ad hoc committee that would look at creative something arts design and meet on a something basis. So this this committee is a bit different in that it's it's it is formed it's going to have appointed
five appointed people I think all of which except for maybe one were either appointed in 2019 or 2021 to some iteration of what this one was. Okay.
>> There will be a uh a they're calling it the dream council that like anyone can be on. Um there's you know six meetings of six meetings a year for this for the five people that
are made on your and then anyone and those meetings be publicly posted with time. anyone can attend and you can be a dreamer and you have an idea you can bring it before this committee >> and you can present it you can lead it but the appointed the appointments is
already a group that's been established because they were part of the original >> and they were established via a resolution >> a resolution in 201 more formal >> yes or more or better yes >> are those people still here they still
want to be involved >> yes they still want to be involved We've all met we've met we've met four times. Um and this is this all exists because they are very driven to actually get this off the ground. Got it. >> Um and I just >> so the the
it's not about committee. Some people are appointed via resolution. Others can apply from the public >> or just come just come. >> You don't have to apply. Just Okay. Um, I remember back when we first took office, I saw this thing that was from
Cherry Hill Township that listed all of their committees and different things. So maybe as a future goal, we talked about this before working for it. What are all of the committees of the bureau? How can I get involved? What is the time commitment? Where do they meet? Is it only in the public when there's last
evening? I think that's a really And this one, I believe it's still on the website. It is. Oh, well, I'm sorry. I apologize. We do have a committee page. >> Yes. But what is still on there and I remember everybody like this one again. >> Okay. But a name changed. Those folks
will still be appointed. Anyone else can still come to the public meetings. Do you know where those will? So basically because those meetings are taking place at >> and it's on. So I have they've been working really hard on bylaws and they have those pretty established. Um so I
can I'll share those with Catherine. Um, again, kind of flying by the seat of our pants here, but they really really are a committed group that wants to get this off the ground um and in a way that can survive the five dedicated members who
are who are there right now. Um, let's see if we can really really grow it. Who's on the um it is Alan Rosenhalt and Kevin Muno and Jeff Damathy and Matt Walker and Jackie
mispronounced anybody have we reappointed them in any way you reappoint >> that's that'll be for February yeah but that's why I want to talk about it now >> and they'll make recommendation and determine if there's >> Right right
>> yes we can also test them like announce something or a project or feedback or you know people can go and >> okay >> yeah I think they have a lot of focus on their spaces on um
how to public art is a driver for community building. Um, so we now have a real wonderful pocket card. Maybe they can help with pro. There's I think there's there's a lot that we can um work on and see how they can support Lindy in programming and um and things
like that as well. I think there's a lot of opportunities there. I want to be cognizant of staff time and as we're looking at committees or bringing up other committees that are now this is also part of the job description. So for this one, are there
any for staff and well? >> Great. Okay. >> Hello leads and great um Okay. So you will attend those been attend. Okay. All right. Now something that's not mural arts. Lindsay. >> Hi everybody. Uh I'm Lindsay. I'm the
director of business and community development. Um we have been in the process of putting together a public art committee that was born out of the new pocket park. Uh once we constructed the pocket park, we realized that there was a very good opportunity for a mural at
that site um based on that and other strong calls for public art throughout the years. You know, we worked together um at the time to put together the beginning of a public art committee. Uh the first thing that that committee is going to be doing, this is a committee that's going to be run through our bid, which is our business improvement
district. Uh many towns and cities with successful public art committees run those through the bid for a number of reasons. um which I can go into more detail if anybody wants, but we have good reasons. So, we're going to be putting out a request for proposals to the public to begin getting applications
for that mural. We're going to open it up to the public for a process. Um there's an entire application process. There are site specifications. You have to put in your proposal requirements, your criteria, your materials, everything. Um, so all that we really have left to do for that is
confirm the timeline that we are going to do that on, which is literally just me writing down those dates and getting them approved. So, I'm going to do that. Um, and then this should be getting out beginning of February. So, we'll get through Gala and everything and then get those out. We would like to give people
a six week application period. So once we publicize it, we're looking at a six week period for people to be able to work to get together. There are their proposals that they will then submit to the committee and then we will have a committee that chooses.
>> Um what's uh is the burrow so it's a question proposing money in order to purchase products and their time and those kinds of things. >> So there's already um a budget set aside for this specific mural that was part of the pocket park budget. So, for the
first one, we don't have to worry about there. There's a set amount that they can use that will be communicated within the RFP. So, they'll have to be within that dollar amount. I believe it's $10,000 or more. Um, >> I think it might be a >> Okay, I'll double check on the amount.
Um, but yeah, there is a budget for that going forward. That's something that we will have to, you know, fund raise for, come up with certain streams of income. It's another reason it's good that it's in the bid because the bid is a 501c3. Um, so that gives us more mechanisms to
kind of fund this committee. >> And also remember you talking to us about this. One of the reasons for it to be through the bid is that they just the murals tend to be located on the side of the business. >> Yeah. In the business. Sure. >> The business owner wanted to, for example, like listen, I would love a mural here. Yep. How much is materials?
I can put this much toys materials because I want to drive, you know, bring attention here. That's something for example that could be pursued through this committee and through the bid running the mural arts. >> Yes. Yeah. We have a very committed u
business owner organization. So you know they're very vocal in what people see and like roof ground for example you know they have requested something like this for a long time and when it became time to put something there and it was the right fit we were able to do that. Um,
>> there are a number of businesses on the west side, our westside business district that have requested something. We think that would be a wonderful spot to put some public art. It's basically the theater district. They've done a lot of placemaking over there. They've done a lot of hard work to really invigorate that area. So, adding some public art
that could be a destination for people, I think, would be great. Um, we're also not just talking about murals. So, that's why we didn't do like a mural committee. When we say public art, we're talking about different mediums, you know, different types. Um, it doesn't have to be permanent necessarily. So, you know, we're we're trying to keep our
minds open and see what people have ideas for. And, you know, this is a town that has long um enjoyed its reputation as a center for the arts. So, I think having some public art, I know it's something that all three of you on the commission have really been behind. And
so, we're excited to get out there and do it. and the RFP process will begin in February for that. >> Um, this is exciting and a great update. So, this public arts committee is separate from the dream committee. >> Yeah,
>> this will run through the bid and um, so who deci? So, who decides what the well who decides who's on the committee? Is it all run from like bid exec? >> It's run through the bid exec board. will be a >> one thing into that for Caitlyn just to
get like my the only concern I have with it all is that it would we're now like a point where we're lead certain sides or whatever somebody you know puts up like how we regulate it to give us you
know what I mean like >> we can't regulate content themselves >> yes that that's very clear so I'll definitely want to take a look at you know what the RFP is. >> Yes. >> To make sure you know are protected from >> of course that side.
>> Miss Touch does it by a committee like that's tied to their bid and I'm familiar with them but like I've never been able to get a good answer out of them about >> so so when do when say no? Amy's question who decides
Yeah. who and like you know if if somebody wants to put um >> yeah yeah put Hitler up on the side of the building like what who says no >> so here's >> like that >> it's going to be have to be
>> harshly crafted RFP >> Billy does it they control it you know you never hear like issues but touch and does they have it all over the place >> and I will say um we worked closely with Matt Walker from the columns with civic collective who worked closely with the Philly Mural
Arts program to craft the RFP. So, he did a lot of footwork >> in figuring out um we do have I do have a little um >> list of why it's good to run through the bin. >> So, it removes bureaucratic barriers and red tape. Always a win.
>> Oh, sure. >> Always a win. >> Expanded fundraising capabilities. So, because we have the nonprofit status, we can have some expanded fundraising capabilities. Part of why a lot of people do this through the bid is because it avoids complications through municipal ordinances such as sign
ordinances. So you have that improves public perception and reduces political pressure. Speaking to that, when when you have an executive group who's deciding some of this in a contentneutral way, um it gives us a little bit more leeway honestly to avoid
trying to have something offensive like that. uh encourages community involvement and buyin and follows proven models from successful downtown art. >> So would say put any signs up unless we
>> and then we put it up. I know that's that's >> kind of >> just we say it's okay then how it works. >> I know but like just speak the words. So, we currently have uh
>> on the books right now that >> and I can get you that draft RFP so we can look over that. >> That would be great. Awesome. >> Thank you. >> So, the public arts committee, it's not called mural arts, it's going to be public arts, it's not just mural, correct, >> will only be open to members of the bid.
>> The committee itself will be a small committee. Yes. Like a fivep person committee. It will be a it it should be a commissioner um member from the exec board. I think a business owner representative
I think an art representative property owner >> and a propert I think at least two representatives from the actual bid should be on it. Like maybe a property owner and a tenant. >> We have some property owners who want to get more involved right now. So
>> I'm happy to help with that that's in several committees unless you want more committ we should talk we should look at parameters because you need like >> yes >> can every house do their house like >> yeah I think keeping it within the business districts for now to start
>> I think that the conversation we had was that since the pocket park design already >> had funding and the idea was to have one there this could be like our test case to see how see how this works and work out the kinks and the >> but I won't I won't vote on what I designed.
>> We will not have the elected officials vote on the design. Take that out of the equation >> and then you'll send Kaitlyn. >> We have to tighten up who's going to be on the committee. We'll do some work on that. >> We'll just appoint the people. >> I'm not going to vote on it.
>> It's the same issue. Yeah. So I but I think that these are important things because we want to promote art and this is part of this town but we also don't want to have something giant and that people find offensive >> they didn't use blah blah blah in the RFP is there a focus on local artists
>> there is we actually prioritize um you will be given higher weight on the application if you score >> yes >> maybe I missed this when does the executive point >> we should probably do that in February so that as we get this out when they come back in the six month time frame,
we can have that ready to go. >> Um, >> so I can put that on the >> for six weeks. >> I six weeks to receive them back and then I have to confirm what our phase will be of looking them over and choosing and when we the exact day we'll
announce. So I have to confirm those dates >> because the idea is get enough late spring. >> Yeah, we'd love to have it completed by summer. I would say had a lot of local artists reach out already who are very interested. Sorry. >> Um, I know that there's the sign there
that says something now like coming soon. Is it possible either within that sign or in the little library once we have the RFP that if somebody comes by that they could get information about that? >> A QR code or something. Yeah, >> definitely.
>> Okay. Jim, I think this is yours. So, this is just the idea of going from three commissioners to five. Kayla and I spoke real briefly about it that that it can't it can't get on a referendum just by us putting it the referendum petition
drive. >> Oh, it does. >> And so, it needs to do a petition drive. >> How many? >> It's 15% of the voters that voted in the last general. >> It's roughly 900 I think is what the petition says. Roughly 900 done. I asked
how it's last November. It's the last time I had the assembly. >> Oh, 15% of the general of the general because general I mean it's the floor. >> No, when the assembly when the assembly members were up which was November that was one of the higher turnouts. So it
would need a lot of petitions but I'm I'm talking to a couple people to try to get one get together to start it. So good. So, so structurally like the soonest that it could likely happen if you go through the petition process, petition would need to be done submitted
to the uh the commission. Once you guys get enough signatures from the commission, whatever ordinance is vote that is submitted to the commissioners, that ordinance has to be well crafted because it has to be the
exact same ordinance that is then put up for a vote and that vote is going to be at the general election in November. So depending on the outcome of that as soon as you could have it's like a double public participation process because
you're you are changing the formation of your government. So the legislature has provided that a lot of input from residents to go into that kind of structural change. So, it would the
petition would be to expand the commissioner size from three to five. If you get enough signatures uh for that, that would probably have to be done by the summer in order to get onto the November ballot. Then it would be up for
general election. Does the community want to expand the commissioner size the November election? Yeah. >> And if you vote yes, then you're having from, you know, November until the following of May that you're going to
have two people who are going to run because you pulled your uh commission elections in May. So it would be the following bang and then you would wind up with staggered. >> Wouldn't it be >> better to do it the following year so that it's staggered in a two and two as
opposed to >> like the four year >> so that the statutes don't contemplate that. >> Isn't that something? It's something that that's absolutely should be discussed among the community, but when you it depends on when the petition is
received on when it physically goes onto the ballot. But if we're if what you're saying is he's trying to get someone to get this petition started. I think it's important to to understand that it lots of ifs. If there were two more, it should be in a way that every two years
you either vote for three or you vote for two. And that way you have continuity as opposed to well that's you vote 26 27 then you don't vote for three years and then >> I don't know that it gets staggered that way. I'm not sure about that but even if it does it would then you would be that
if you were this November a referendum was adopted and then May there was an election of two then every two years you would be two three two three two three >> that would be May you were 25 last election was 25 that would now be May 27.
>> Oh okay okay. Right. >> I don't know. I It hasn't happened a lot. >> It's never happened. >> It's never happened. It's never happened. >> Never been referenced. It's been Man, it's been talked about in other towns. What grounding?
>> I I I looked I did look this up. Um it's actually pretty hard to figure this out. There's only 30 uh 32 municipalities that still have Wall Shack. There used to be up to 60 and they've been dropping like flies, it sounds like. So it's down to 32 and only seven of them have five
commissioners and those seven were all born with five commissioners in between 1912 and 1931. >> Sorry, sorry, go back. So 32 out of whatever it is, 564 municipalities have Walsh. It used to be six and only seven
out of 32 have fives, but they've always been that way. >> They've always been that way. And they're in two are in Bergen County, one's in Cumberland, one's in Ethics, and the rest are in Hudson County. And five, you can only do five when you're over certain population. >> Yeah. Over 12,000. >> So for most of those towns are smaller
towns like in our neck of the woods here, Hagenfield, Merchantville, >> right? They all have >> under. Yeah. But below the population. >> Yeah. >> Why J maybe you know this question. Why are town So they're moving away from the
wall to what they are in council? That seems to you know >> the most >> uh the most popular right now >> the burough yeah the burrow board form which is >> weak mayor strong council and there's
200 as of 2006 the even even the league didn't have good stuff um 218 municipalities so the majority of municipalities have the weak mayor strong council the other thing to discuss is if we're really going to upend all this um is that we pay for our
own elections. It's $70,000 every four years that cost to run our election in May. So, you know, it keeps >> Yeah. >> Is that right, Paul? >> Yes. >> Wow. >> Um and we can't like split it with because it's it's just us. It's not even
with the district for, you know, school board or for u legislator. So, uh that's something to consider. And yes, the Walsh Act came in the progressive era keeps politics out because we it's non uh it's nonpartisan, which is why it's a
bank. Uh but it's also worth considering if we're going to go to five >> then >> to but then we have to change the wall jack which we we weren't the wall jack. We did have >> this form that changed what 197 or something.
>> What did we have before you had married before? What happened in 1925? Yeah, I think it was I think we had married. >> Oh, that I don't >> that's on the website. >> I was not around. >> Put that on the So, we switched to Walshack when all these towns switched
to Walsh Act. >> It was a progressive thing. >> Yeah. >> Take politics out. >> Um Okay. So, it's just further and again again for further like research and consideration like look look into that
because um mostly it's like voter turnout. That's when you said 15%. I asked is it off of the May election or because you know >> be easier. Yeah, >> it'd be easier and general. >> Exactly. People would know the votes
like wait May what's happening? So yeah, >> so it listen it's it's the tradeoff the the I always liked it in May because people voted those candidates you don't in other
towns right municipalities uh a governing body gets swept out because Obama is at the top or gets swept out you know like it goes >> it no matter how you do it it just runs these like slates one way or the
You know, it goes here when you have May, it's always just >> just that item. >> Only a few people voted, but it was always coming. It wasn't good for somebody at the top of the ticket. >> Um surrounding towns that have different
forms of government. For example, Glenn has a council like seven. >> Yeah, six council and one mayor. seems like a lot of people >> and um >> almost everybody
>> buy a house to be honest as far as finances uh we each make a small salary but it gives you and it's not a lot of small >> Oakland you make $1,000 per year to be on the council um so if we expand and
lower that does that lower the participation for folks look I didn't do this for the Our salary is like $9,600 a year for this role. Um, but just considering if we go down, >> if we add two more to add more and go
down or we increase Yeah, I know. But >> it's all stuff like if we ever get there >> if we ever get there. Um, but I think it's worth considering. So, it's worth considering what type of government. Is it Walsh or is it mayor and council that you said has the
majority the would you say the mayor strong council because you have so many council members that the mayor just like voted out >> that's like a mayor doesn't have any under our correct me if I'm wrong okay like the mayor doesn't really have any
statutory dutes under our right presides in let's say >> right yeah there's no veto power in the other form yeah now the mayor is the executive you know the the governing body is now the legislative. So the mayor has to get is in charge of all the
departments that you know we we run. The mayor wants all that you know and has veto and doesn't participate write the laws. A lot of towns you go to the mayor's not at the public meetings like the council people um mayor sometimes
they'll sit like in a corner because they don't they don't have a vote. They don't have anything to say about it. Does that give info? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it depends. It's if it's the burough form, it's six
six council men and the mayor. So, the mayor will vote if there's a tire if there's a uh >> in ' 88 there was a petition drive here 1988 to go to mayor and council. Um that went down pretty big. That's a few days
ago, but it went down pretty. There was a petition drive to change formal government to that >> because you can I did you can petition to go back to what you had without as much uh >> I I would have to look at the specific yeah each form of government they
there's different requirements for how you how you change but changing the form or structure of a government is not what you would call an ordinary act. So it typically involves heavy voter participation
um public participation and you know I if the discussion is more than just expanding your current form of government from three to five commissioners um I would definitely suggest you kind of take a more thorough analysis of different forms of
government that you might be interested in in evaluating I research things I like to have all the information. Did you say Danielle that no one else has five? Is that right? >> That's correct. >> Um I wonder if it would be worth
reaching out to one of those even though they always had five. One of the Walsh acts that has five in the other counties like perhaps reaching out like when it is finding out some additional information from their administrator or from their governing
body um how they handle matters. So they each have the five same title with the department. >> So it the way that's prescribed. What would happen is that you would each lose a department. >> Uh five would stay the same, but you would each like public safety and public
>> public property or two public safety, public affairs, but >> do they have monthly working? I'm just the rest of the >> you can set those up. You have a meeting every week. You got to have a meeting once every six months. The idea is control.
the same >> and um I wonder up seven how big their population is. >> I did as much I did as much research like >> 12. >> But are they huge? >> Town's biggest town.
I think they're >> they are not. >> I think so. >> Are they wild? >> No. >> West Wildwood Burough does Oh, they're three. No, the the ones that have five are Lindhurst Township, Richfield to Park Village, Milville City, Nutley
Township, North Bergen Township, Union City, and West New York. >> Now, um I think more information would be helpful. Um, I'm interested in this topic and I want to feel like I have full information on like the different
forms of government, what it looks like. Um, do we wish to remain nonpartisan? Like all of those pieces. Um, I think that would be really helpful. So, I don't need to look stuff up myself, but additional information in terms of what this is about. If you'd like me, I can
just prepare a memo for you guys outlining the different forms of government that are typically, you know, the general area and what like be suitable for the the burrow and then I will give that to you and you guys can run with that if you need more research
from there. >> Okay. Thank you. So, Richfield Park only has 13,000. I guess they must have had >> I think it's 12. >> 12 in the >> And did they do
>> once you adopt it when you're over it? It doesn't matter. >> Right. Right. Right. Um Kaitlin, would you mind when you're putting together that memo, can you see? Do they have staggered elections? Do you vote them all in all four terms just like we have? >> I I think it depends on what form of government you're picking and how you're
implementing it. Most of those forms of government have specific rules on when you are for uh formatting it. Yeah, that you know that will tell us explicitly how how the terms are staggered and how long
those terms are. So I'll update Anything on that? >> No. >> Um the next item I added to the agenda which is safe routes to schools. So we had this whole process of um
uh report that was written it'sund something pages long. Um we heard from them again time is weird. Um so uh we discussed what potential next steps were. So I just wanted to to circle back to that. So we talked about potentially having this like powerful
how to how to share out those results so that members of the panel can understand and see that report and also what potential >> well I think first we need good direct >> yeah it's not right >> they just gave it to us for comment
>> right so they're provided comment I know chief car provided com so if you're talking about the public portion I mean I know it discusses me a little bit that's really up to you Okay. You can hold um a meeting dedicated to
just that. Um you can obviously have it during public comment at a public meeting um as part of presentation. I find those obviously to be much later attended our town forums. Sometimes we've plugged them in and made rescheduled town forum. We've given it
specific topic. >> Um so there's a couple different you know those are those are some of the standards. Um, >> does the team usually come and do that presentation for the public? Is that part of their
>> I mean the >> Yeah, they're g and putting it into language of like these were the findings, these a whole lot of stuff. >> I think the easiest way to compartmentalize it just mentioning is they had broken down the recommendations
into sort of light lips, medium lips, difficult lips. Um, I think we can look at the light lift group and say, you know, these are the dozen items we could, but some of them are things like trimming trees around, you know, signage, those sorts of things. I mean, I would recommend laying out what we possibly do with low
cost very simply. Exactly. Then looking at medium stretch things. I know that I shared it with Tim and Annie of RBD, especially at Berry Avenue one, >> uh, because as you know, there's like this double roundabout proposal and also this island extension proposal. Um those
are giant massive ones. We were talking about uh a multi-municipal application process can it would be nice to do. Now that is like out but it's it's doable. Um so there's all there's many many layers but if you're just talking about
public park you I think building it into an existing town forum especially I think we have in March is reasonable. >> Are you you're thinking about finalized it first and then we just roll it out. Yeah, of course. Okay. >> Yeah, that last meeting we had was I think the last gonna get
>> Yeah, >> they're gonna This is the the state the DOT did a a study of and it basically is given suggestions to make drop off pickup at schools safer >> and it really doesn't hit. Yeah, it's not much about the walks. Most of the
major work is like all like act wherein like a block. Yeah. drop off this and it also made recommendations on because of kids walk to school but out on the end of Haden like cut into Bern got there that funky little
>> which is designed for cars and not people >> but it's it's also like an exercise just playing Sim City because it's >> there's no money but not so it's all kinds of wonderful ideas just >> and I know Chief had given some suggestions and those were incorporated in their recommendations but I think
What what I'm just pushing for is I want to be transparent with the public about this was all listed. We do not have eight billion dollars to do all of these things. So how can we be transparent about what decisions we can make which are like pie in the sky. This is impossible. We could apply for grants
here. This um it'll be great just to have a condensed version. No one's going to read that 100page report but how we can share it once more. First five pages are pretty digestible. Yeah. and each individual section over to each school like you know that each neighborhood pay attention.
>> That would be my other recommendation is I think the schools have to be involved because several of the recommendations have to be implemented by them. Um, absolutely. >> Without their, >> you know, leverage or buy in, most of that plan is useless. >> And, and a lot of it also, uh, the rationale behind trying to get this done
was so that it was done by a government agency so that if we were to apply for grants further down the road, like the information is in there or the data is in there that like it's been verified. And yes, >> we saying that because I that was I learned that for me. That's for that's
for the public to understand. I feel like some of these public safety different intersections different pieces you know folks have been like what's happening with this what's happening with this and so then we can lay out these are options and this is feasible not feasible maybe with the grant you know all right so maybe we consider part
of the time it's forum that's not official action right but that >> on that shouldn't we advertise these like just in case >> advertise What? >> The the the work sessions were official action. No, no, no. >> So, so
>> just we didn't this one. >> Yes, I got you. >> So, in general, work sessions we don't take action at. If we intend to take action, you're right. We need to specifically notify that we >> So, why don't we just if we if we notice
we do like our we're going to work out a schedule and whatever when these are going to be just notice the law that official action may be taken. as a practice we won't unless it's like something that >> that will definitely meet the
requirements um policy and decision like we have a special assignment affordable housing we had to have a special meeting just you know >> you now have a second meeting >> or for grant applications or something that need to have our signature that could give us some more flexibility.
>> It's good to get it noticed. >> Yeah. And you know, we're preparing agendas for it. So if we know that you anticipate to take special action on something at a work session, we'll highlight it in the agenda. So So people
transparency is what you want. And then okay, now we have Mson. Um, and we go have our discussion about EMS. >> Well, I don't think I don't think we should like kind of shouldn't do it
here. I can just I can give you an update then. Um hopefully we can sit down next week, beginning of next week. I'm just going to the chief sent over a whole bunch of documentation to me that I'm trying to get through and do my homework on and then would want to sit
down and just go over like map out like an RFP that we would do um and set like a set a timeline. >> Okay. Yeah, I think the timeline um is would be helpful just to know like when we're planning to put out the RFP, what this might look like, when we would
get recommendations, that kind of thing. >> Yeah. I want and I just want to generally talk just >> Okay. So, that isn't something you want to do publicly. Well, I don't think we should do it with >> so we can do it in executive session
because we're going to be talking about contract negotiations and RFPs and stuff like that. So, we we can uh do the initial conversation in exec. But once you guys kind of decide on which way to go, those following conversations could
be public. >> Sure. Just want to make sure we're agreeing to what was said, which is a manual request. Great. So, I have a couple items. The ocean first the the the new project that's
building. We've got we had a couple requests from planning board member from >> Conrad, I think, sent an email with a whole list of issues about redevelop that should be he felt should be included within a redevelopment agreement on it. I know. Then we got emails from
>> was it in the redevelopment agreement or more I thought that was more like style stuff of things you wanted them to consider in their design. >> Well, I think it was items that he addressed as part of the redevelopment. In other words, it's stuff that wasn't covered in the site plan and but things
that he thought were going to be important. And kind of in that same vein was >> Jones sent a prop sent a couple different spots, right, about treats. And so I just want to make sure like some of who's addressing this somebody going over this who's working with like
is that >> is that happening something happening with it? >> So is this for the property the >> bank? Yeah that half yeah that half that's going to be our public parking lot and the front half is developed. >> So I I don't have any documentation
about these items from the planning board or anything like that. Uh I did have questions because uh something was raised to me about the historic uh historic commission uh uh group that you have that I I don't
think they've been to. So I I want Yeah, I wanted to discuss that with you guys because you know if are there going to be considerations because there's no redevelopment agreement signed yet. They just have a draft. So, you know, if there's things that need to be added to
it or not, that's something that we need to discuss. >> That's why I want these items that are so those items that he laid out, >> a lot of those can be covered in a redevelopment plan. >> Okay. So, that should be get addressed to get done. >> My understanding, I wasn't in Planet
World, but my understanding is that they represented that they had been to the star. >> That's how it sounded. Yeah. >> And then they haven't been to the star. So, >> and it's usually it's kind of, you know, usually they're at the start first. >> So, we got to let them know. Hey, tell us you gota
>> So, I I would imagine that might push back any sort of closing. >> I believe redevelopment agreement with them. >> We would do a draft is not signed. Um, was the planning board meeting cancelled
on Monday? Yes, because of the snow has moved to the 23rd. The 23rd. Yes. >> I think they're waiting on the resolution for it. I just want to February 23rd. >> See what that is. And because we >> get that draft. >> Yeah, we have the draft
>> because of uh the snow and moving just essentially keeping the February meeting. We're going to have two meetings in the morning to try to catch back so we don't get anybody too too off track. Okay. >> Um just to go back for a second. Um I'm traveling tomorrow out of the country
for several days. Um can we set our meeting now for next week for you? >> Yeah. >> Uh I just want to keep things moving. I know that 10 days ago there was another situation with the department where um our first responders weren't able to respond to a fire. So I just want to
keep this moving. When are you back in town? >> Monday. >> So, how about >> Monday we have our February commissioner meeting. Um, so the idea will be that you and I sit together and um have a
timeline, right? That's the goal and what the RFP process will look like. Do we need to change or Yeah. Are you traveling? Are you >> Can you do Can you do early like on Tuesday?
>> What early do you >> seven? I'll do whatever after that. >> Um, should we have Kate on there, too? >> Say what? >> Should we have Kate on there, too? >> Oh, that's fine. That's fine. We can we can we can do it virtual. We can do virtual. That's fine. >> Let's do that.
Yeah, I can do Tuesday. >> January till 8 o'clock. All right. >> That was at seven. >> Well, you asked how early I could do I could do two. >> I can do seven, but if that's too early, I could also do nine. >> I'm open. Okay.
>> Um I I need to do 11 then because I have stuff. >> Okay. 11. I can do 11 on the third. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Perfect. Thank you. So that's seven. >> I guess that's scheduling portion. I've already done that.
>> What about Jenn Sorry. >> No, no, no, that's all. >> Um working in meetings once a month. Yes. slightly before the groomish meeting or did this make it too I was thinking about this today like how does this make
it this week just be crazy >> with a working meeting like potentially five days before is that be a little bit earlier like what works better for >> I request that we do whatever we're doing we do like a lunch hour or something like but midafter afternoon
it's >> I mean I add everybody's availability over like a 10day period if I work the one. >> Yeah, sure. That's fine. That's my office. So I would suggest if we're going to have standing working meetings, we do it
a little more advanced in the meeting because if there needs to be a resolution or organiz you want to have a little more time get it to Holly. So the week of the 16th was two weeks before. So two weeks before
that makes sense to you. Um planning board is first. Planning board open commissions first. Okay. And also that Monday's president's day Wednesdays Wednesdays usually work best
for me. Midday Wednesday at 11:30. >> Usually it's pretty. >> I promise the intent was not to bore you all not putting one of you together. Yeah, >> this is the what it looks like, right?
11:30 1:18. Okay. >> Well, and we can start with our Wednesdays and if we have to move around these set up and I think having our time in between just for whatever Wednesdays >> unless otherwise notice
the end of the year >> or let Kaitlin take a look at we should put stuff about. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Great. Um, so I move the bill or move close session for attorney client
acquisition of property and and litigation >> on the second. >> And so yeah, that's a resolution. So for the public, we're going to move into close session to discuss matters that need to be discussed privately. We will not >> we will not be coming back to continue
discussions. So we can feel free to head on if they need to put much here. Thank you. >> We will not be coming out and taking any official action. No official action will be taken. Closed session to discuss a limited number of items.