B comply the notice of the sun law by adopting prior to January 10th of this year resolution prescribing the date time location of all regular meetings commission. This meeting is one of the meetings listed in set resolution and copy of the res by January 10th file
with the burden a motion to file the December 1st minutes. >> Second >> and a motion to file the following reports tax collector means report zoning and the 2025 annual tax collector report.
>> Second. And we have the first reading of ordinance 1826 to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and to establish a capback. Um so the public comment and the second meeting of this will be on February 2nd. Um
question. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Henderson Marley. >> Yes. >> Mayor Shana. Uh we have some appointments uh appointing Captain John Klein to the rank of deputy police chief comment on the resolutions. >> I think we're going to do the oats and
then we'll do public comment after. >> Is that okay? >> Okay. Okay. Just resolution. Okay. >> Um should I open up the public comment? There's two resolutions. One resolution >> for the two. Yeah. Two points for you.
Does anybody have a comment on the uh resolution agenda? >> Appointing Captain John Klein to the rank, excuse me, of Deputy Police Chief of the Burrow of Collinswood and appointing Sergeant Eric Roseboro to the rank of police captain for the Burrow of
Collinswood. >> Yes. >> Yes. All right. I should tell you guys not like my kids. >> The other 20 of the clients aren't coming up. No. Okay.
Ready? I >> I >> John P. John B. >> Do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> that I will support >> that I will support >> the Constitution of the United States >> the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey >> of the Constitution of the State of New Jersey
>> that I will bear true faith >> that I will bear true faith >> and allegiance >> and allegiance >> to the fa and to the government >> and to the same and to the governments >> established in the United States >> established in the United States >> and in this state >> and in this state >> under the authority of the people >> under the authority of the people >> and that I will faithfully
>> and that I will faithfully >> impartially >> impartially and justly perform >> and justly perform >> all the duties as deputy police chief >> all the duties as deputy police chief >> for the Burough of Collins and police department >> for the bur of the police department >> according to the best of my ability >> according to the best of my ability
thank you so much So, the other 15 of the rose barrels going to come up with stuff. Clients win, right? >> I >> I >> Eric Rose. Eric Rose. >> Do solemnly swear >> solemnly swear >> that I will support >> that I will support
>> the Constitution of the United States >> the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution >> and the Constitution >> of the State of the State >> that I will bear true faith and allegiance >> that will bear true faith and allegiance >> to the same and to the government >> to the state and to the government >> established in the United States
>> established in the United States >> and in this state >> and in this state >> under the authority of the people >> under the authority of the people >> and that I will faithfully >> that I will faithfully and partially >> impartially >> and justly perform >> and justly perform >> all the duties >> all the duties >> as police captain for the Burough
Collins Police Department. >> as police captain for the Barrow of Collinswood Police Department. >> According to the best of my >> according to the best of my ability Thank you. I just want to comment that it's still always frightening to see kids from the
little league teams. >> Not as frightening as they when they first got guns. U everyone that was so kind to come to watch the um the oath of office. If you would like to continue your evenings, you are so welcome to go home. If you
want to continue for the rest of all of these, you are welcome as well. But this is your this is your moment to end the stage. >> No. New York. Stay around. I know. That was fun.
Oh, I know. >> I know. Yeah. Finally popped up some. Thank you. Following appointment at the end secondord authority
of course as tax collector as a zoning officer for the world appointing Steve Dioro as recycling coordin coordinator water superintendent and superintendent of the public works at the bur reappointing Andrew Parker as
safety coord coordinator and storm water management coordinator reappointing Mark Lag as as a needed electrical inspector and electrical sub code official for the B Collinswood construction department. Appointing
Albert Hall as parttime building inspector for the burrow of Collinswood. Appointing Robert Allen, fire code official and fire as fire inspector. And then this is for the municipal court personnel.
Reappointing municipal court judge Brian H. Herman, municipal court administrator, Susan Shy, and municipal court reporter, Christine Deivo as municipal violations clerk, court clerk, and Eric boss as
municipal court. for reappointing special law enforcement officers Victoria Sheffield, Kevin Dugan, Andela Brown, Joseph Rivera, Hazel Brley, and reappointing special law enforcement officer class 2, Robert
Sheffes. Reappointing Danielle Cook as clerical respondent for the Collinsville Police Department. Appointing Elizabeth Stokes as part-time treasur appointing Mary Don Frio as to the Culling Library as a library assistant.
And reappointing Commissioner Amy Henderson Riley to the college board as a class three member. I have council. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. The next will be the professional service contracts and I will be going
through these. >> I would just ask that we can do it by consent. I would ask the BS who we can talk separately about >> okay professional service contracts too and I can go through as consent
>> yeah I'll go okay with the consent except for that one >> all right consulting as information technology consultants Brandon Conrey's labor council Connor Strong Companies as risk management consultant. Phoenix Advisors LLC as financial advisor.
Arer's bond council. Ford Scott and Associate Associates as a municipal auditor. Remington and Bernie as municipal engineers and land use engineer. Tiffany Develc consultant. Charles Wigington as
municipal public defender. Timothy Hkins as municipal prosecutor. Brett Wilsky as a steward board solicitor. Madden and Madden as solicitor. Independent animal control for animal control services. Zer and
special council. I'm sorry >> his first name is Matt. He's Matt. >> Okay. >> As special counsel for conflict matters. Um, authorized a an agreement with the Gord Animal Shelter for the 2026 shelter
services. Authorize an agreement with Edmond Associate for the software support in 2026. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then um we have one for Dorth Pil. >> Yes.
I I just have a comment for sure both which is that um this um this uh is replacing Brown Connory who've been the bar the burl solicitor for 25 30 years maybe u and it is my it is my so it's 26
years so it's my it's my opinion that Joe Nardy and the firm is being fired because of the opinion that he gave last on December 1st on the conflict of interest issue. Uh my colleagues have been on the on the board for seven
months now. They have been working with SH. We just finished up last month the fair share housing affordable housing settlement agreement. They've been working through agreements, working on everything. Everything's been going along just fine. Not a complaint, not a comment, not a problem. Uh I had
believed all the appointments, as you see here, most every appointment is just folks being reappointed. Uh it this is there's one there's one change. There's one change one other change. Uh and but Nardney is being let go because he gave
an opinion December 1st that the bear had a conflict of interest. She disagreed with that. Today a judge decided that was accurate. That was a correct decision and and that's why ever since then that's why he's being let go.
>> What was Let me just Let me speak. Okay. So I got and then on the process for this I there was a a our governing now is I get little spreadsheets where we
can by email click off who we think should be appointed. Uh when I got the one where the mayor indicated that she would not be going with uh brownie I said that's a pretty I emailed back that's a pretty big change. we should
probably have a discussion about that. Um, and I didn't get any response to that. And then Friday night, the agenda came out from our clerk. And in that agenda, that's where it had this change
being being made. Um, I did not see it Friday night. I was out of town Friday night around 7 8:00 at night. I I saw took note of it this morning when one of the attorneys of Brown Connory said we probably should not be addressing this tax appeal issue since there's going to
be new council. Um the process it hasn't even been transparent between the three of us. I'm not even tell you what let me finish talking. You can talk all night. We I get I I get a little email. I ask questions. I get the responses. It gets
changed. They'll vote for a vote tonight. This is not the way this government should be operating. I vote no. No offense. I already told him no. Not the person. I vote no. >> Well, I fired him.
>> Well, he's not being reappointed. >> Oh, so you're it's a choice of >> being right now. >> So, about Jonardi and then I will answer some of the slightly misleading comments from Mr.
First and foremost, we want to thank Joardi for his long-standing commitment to the burough. He has served as the buritor since 1999. It is our job to ensure the next 20 years and see as much growth and success as the last 20. To do so, we feel there
is a fundamental need to pass the force. We are lucky to have members of our staff like our clerk and CFO with years and years experience and governing body members like Jim with over 30 years of experience. What we don't want is to come to a day where all of our institutional institutional knowledge
walks off into the sunset of retirement or the new outside the bureau endeavor at the same time. In that vein, we are going to be appointing General Paxton as our new burough solicitor. Dorsia join joining us on the deck tonight is a solicitor for how countship as well as
for town county fire district and her firm represents over 70 municipalities as bond council and federal council as well. She is a former haten resident and calls a homeowner and is excited to work alongside us all.
I understand the importance of a continuity. However, which is why although we opened our RFP for all the positions that you just um heard us agree to the professional services contract, we received four
categories with more than one option. For financial advisor, we relied on Jim's past experiences and appointed Phoenix advisor accordingly. for bond council. Our CFO weighed in and we are appointing Arthur Grryer at her behest. I say all of this because it's important for the public to know that we may not
only agree, but we do weigh all of these decisions carefully and are taking experienced staff insights into consideration. Information was shared. We had all all the full applications come in by mid November. They were all available to all
three of us. There was only four options. There was only four categories where there were multiple applications. I sent information for everyone to indicate what they believe. I was out of the country and I let Jim know that that
if he would like to speak with Amy, they could have a conversation. I was literally at cell phone service and they can write up and I would take all the claims in consideration to which there was no response. I'm going to launch into this a little more during my public comment at the
end, but we're going to be having open public work sessions because it is unfair to you all to hear one version of how much you he gets and what emails he gets and what he doesn't get. And then you have to believe me or him or Amy and that's just not fair to any of you. So,
we're going to find a time once a month where we can set our agenda. discuss these things and you can see what information we have, what information our staff is providing us with, what we're working off of, and what we are using to make our decision for all of our visits.
There is no campaign here to hide information from anyone. It's a matter of how dirty you want to get your hands on all the work that it takes or if you're just going to say yes to the things that come along. and we are doing our very best to on to dig into every
topic we need to make it a six month. Um I really hope that we can work towards an open work session which I'll talk more at the end. Let's keep going. Um, I did not heard the following resolution.
Um the housekeeping that we usually square in a year and cash pay for the burrow of columns in 2026. >> Yes. >> Approving depositories for the burrow of col funds in 2026. >> Yes.
>> Approving year 20 2026 temporary budget appropriations. Yeah. Yes. >> Approving the interest and grace period on taxes, water and sewer in 2026. >> Yes. >> Authorizing the tax assessment of fables in 2026. >> Designated official newspapers for legal
advising. >> Yes. >> Authorizing to apply to the DP New Jersey forest service urban community program for a lease a leaf compost brand. >> Yes. >> Yes. and authorizing a change order
number one for the pocket park projects. >> And approving the payment of bills in general water and storage. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> I want to talk a little bit more about the open public work sessions. Um they're in Hat and Town they call them
caues. Um in Hadfield they call them open public work sessions. Um essentially their monthly meeting in addition to the meeting you're seeing right now. Um thinking transparency and the public deliberation among staff and commissioners. Ideally, it' be during
the workday in consideration for staff's um staff's time um 7 to 10 days before the agenda comes out so that it will be where you fill the meat of what is going into the agenda. Um
they may not be the same day and time every month because we do have a lot of schedules to accommodate and I want to be mindful of that. I understand it is extra um but I think it is very important. I think it's something we haven't we haven't done thus far what we
should be doing. Um so please stay tuned as we iron out the details. We will have to post those um with the the new me the new standards in 2026.
The meetings need to be posted within 48 for each 48 hours. >> Within 48 hours and then they'll also be available online as to when these public meetings are. They'll also be recorded so you can watch them and they'll be in
minutes just as there are other forming board. I'd like to say that we'll be having a full-time appointment as well alternate appointment. Um, the deadline for that can be January 16th. That's not this Friday, but for next Friday. Um, if you already applied and
you've sent your resume and you want to like send me another email saying interested, uh, that would be greatly appreciated. All you really need to do, but I already have your information, please just email.com. Um, and that's got
>> um, a couple things. One is um related to it's a great idea to have meetings. I would love to know more of what's going on. Um the there was a hearing today on the many of you I think have heard of the lawsuit that I filed in order to invalidate the contract with Virtua. Um
we had gone into court asking for what they call the judge did what they call temporary restraints to stop the uh to stop the contract that was heard this afternoon. Uh the court granted our request uh for relief. Uh I don't know
the status of the virtual contract signed. I haven't seen anything. Um I checked the clerk today if there was any that she had one that she didn't have one. Um so that that occurred. Um it's it is um there will be further
discussions or further conference by the board um on the matter about whether or not it becomes permanent. um I expect that it will. But as a result of that, I want to um two things. One is going forward on this. Um I think that there
needs to be a public process to address EMS. I think that I would love to see the the memo, the report that the chief prepared and turned in turned into the mayor and the the deputy mayor. Uh I'd love to see all the information that was provided. I'd love us to work together
to try to come up with a solution and involve the public in it because so far the process has not involved the public at one step. There's been not one mention at meetings other than authorize an RFP, award a contract. That's it. Uh
it's got to be a couple other towns have done done work with their EMS and I've literally been in public processes for a year to come up with a solution that works for everyone. So on the fire EMS I want us to move forward on happy to be a
part of that. And the second is this whole issue has raised at least for me more of an awareness and understanding of the difficulty of there being three. Uh if there if we had had an instance
where a person procedured themselves because there was a some some type of a conflict and there was that would leave it to two people and if there was disagreement as to a policy it wouldn't move forward. Okay. And for our town, that's probably not the best thing. Um,
there's provisions for expanding the size of the commission from three to five. Um, and I know was a topic in the last campaign. Um, and I think it's a really good idea. I think it makes a lot of sense. And I'm going to and this
conflict kind of highlights what the issue is. So, I'm going to uh I've already drafted an ordinance which I'll circulate to our new solicitor and uh and commissioners about expanding us from 3 to 5 to try to um to resolve it.
And that's all I have. So, you know what? I have one other issue. Parker McKay is not being reappointed as conflict council. They're working on an investigation, an internal investigation right now. I
presume they'll be continuing that work. >> I believe so. Yes. >> Okay. All right. That's all I have. Thanks. >> Yeah. Um uh so yeah, taking back the EMS today, uh we were in court as mentioned
the contract until further order. Um and uh of course this is ongoing litigation. So right now my mom is much more on this but I I just want to say that I feel really about the the fire department the personnel there and the safety of this
town. Um our ultimate goal I think for all three of us is to support our own professionals to the best of our ability while providing for the public safety. Um and I I remain committed uh whatever that process is going to look like um to addressing really pressing staffing
issues and then following things we are experiencing and have experienced for the last three years. So that's all I have to say. um wanted to a couple of upcoming events. If you haven't seen yet, uh we are having problems with January restaurant week, which is
January 12. Multiple restaurants are participating. Um which is already made one reservation so far. My husband and I make more. Um so do mark that. It's a great time uh to make our restaurants in winter time. Um
of course later this month in January, we'll be honoring the life and legacy of Junior His for justice, equality, and nonviolence continues to guide communities like ours and conflict that we work to ensure families and for all. Dr. of course remind us that meaningful
will change together at the local level service. So may we all recommit ourselves to drink the best of our ability such as do there are some upcoming events. There's a great service event that's
happening at the library. Um that's something we have the upcom which is a fan favorite happening at the month. I think tickets are still on gra and uh the police are doing a
reacredititation and they're on site. So there is a chance window on Monday the 19th real quick on uh MLK day and raising rates is um partnering up with the long Historical Society and this Thursday the
8th at 6:30 there is a virtual Zoom reading of letter from Birmingham jail. There's 42 different local leaders that are going to be reading a segment from it. We'll be posting on the media an event beforehand but anybody would like to be
involved and hear more about it. Um stay tuned media for for more information about that. Thank you for being here. Comments rock 740 question for mayor award. So, I went to one of your campaign events this spring
and you personally told me that one thing you were going to consider if you got elected was um eliminating the library in favor of joining the county library system. So, as a a library user,
I just wanted to find out that is on the agenda any time in the next four years. I remember that day that upside you were the only one who's been to that event. We had a call. We had two and a half hours just just as needed. Um I did not say that we were going to be eliminating
the library. You said you were going to consider it as a false saving me among other things. That was very early in the campaign before I learned that the Camden count there is no world in which we can become part of the Camden County
library. We missed that video because Hen library is part of the Camden County system. So, we wouldn't have a library if we joined the county system. Um, which is why you didn't hear me talk about it at all anymore during I always I bring this up because I lived in a
town that joined the town library system and we lost our pretty as well. So, great. Thank you. >> Larry Djavi 7:45 Merrick Avenue. I would be able to know why the most important meeting about EMS
because you know something sometimes when you do things in government it affects everyone okay leadership is not about just making decisions snap decision you include everybody the taxpayers
constituents everybody involved okay and I was kind of dismayed with what was going on and what's going on now Okay. And the two for one, everybody has to compromise. Okay. We're not one against the other. And this is
what I'm seeing seeing this. This disturbs me. I lived here almost 49 years. And I can tell you I saw many commission boards in my time being here. Okay? And everything ran very smooth.
Everything is coordinated and everything moves like a fine watch. I can't stand by and listen to this without having a public comment or public input. My tax dollars are going
toward this. And I don't want to be left out of some type of decision that's made by two people, one person that puts me in a position where I might have to move. I've lived there a long time. I like
this town. I'll tell you the truth. I'd like to take my house and move somewhere else, but I can't. But I do like this town. And I'm not going to stand by and watch this so I can appreciate when we make decisions. Let's make a behalf of
the constituents in this town. And I remember your your campaign. I've had it on Zoom still. It's on my phone. And I remember everybody on that board what they spoke about because I have a pretty good memory even though I'm an older guy. But things like that really stick
in my head. And I'm not for or against any one person. Okay? This is not me against you, you against me or anything else. then that is I have no business in government. That's how things get go around. But I would appreciate when
somebody's making decisions like this to coordinate. Okay, that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> I think one of the biggest things and why these open public meetings are so necessary is that right now we don't have a reason to believe that all the
things discussed were discussed. It's just I say it happened whatever. But I have emails. We had mobile meetings with the administrator when we talked about all we talked about the different options and it wasn't the ether. It
wasn't made in a split second. the information that chief shared with um Commissioner Henderson Smiley, myself with Commissioner not shared with Commissioner Bailey and unless we have these open meetings where you can see us talking about these things, you don't
have a reason to believe and I understand that and I understand that's disturbing and I understand that you the Congo was not used to seeing descent up here. It's never happened. I'm sure it has 40 years ago. It's been a long time, but that doesn't mean we're all just
going to acquies to a different and yes, there is compromise and there is ways, but the compromise can't be to just do nothing for EMS and just let them continue going on as they've been going on. Give them
an extra part-time, one extra person. you know, that's that's been the the status quo and why why we are where we are today. And that's just not enough. And what works primarily focused on is
the well-being of a college resident who calls an ambulance and how quickly to get there and most importantly, what is going to be happening on your fire side while that ambulance is out. So um we are very lucky to have chief
voice with many years of experience that we have to rely on. We have to trust that when he's saying his department means these things we choose to believe. >> Thank you very much. >> So so listen but that's why there is no public meetings about what >> we know.
>> I just want to rebut my sense >> to dismiss anybody from the Okay. I support everybody's first responder. Okay, my point is give them all the help they need. Give them more. Okay, but let
the public know that there's ways to do that. Okay, that's all I'll say. I will say you should do that. I don't want to be misinterpreted and I don't want to work with my mouth. Okay, that's what I'll say. All right, thank you. >> My name is Eileen, right? I've lived
here for 13 years and I love this town, but I was a nurse for close to 40 and had a lot of experience and I feel insulted that public was not told about this. You know, my health happens to be good, but I'm 70 years old
and I would like to have a say in with the ambulance and the quality of the EMS people and all that. It's really insulting to have done this. It's done. And then Jim gets upset. I mean, you're young. You don't have any major health problems, I don't think. But did you
ever think that that people would be insulted by what you did? >> Does anybody else feel insulted in the room? >> Not at all. >> No. I think it's insulting that you're assuming everyone else's needs. >> Let's
do public comment to us and then ours. >> I just know. I mean, I've been out with EMS crews and I was a nurse for so long. I know what it's like when people are sick and the quality of the care they get and their family gets when there's an emergency matters and I just feel
like we were all ignored. That's all I want. >> I couldn't agree more. It matters. >> Well, then say I'm sorry >> for what? >> For not telling anybody that this was happening. This sounds like a >> misar. Let's not let's >> maybe maybe there's misinformation in
the paper, but how did it happen that nobody ever knew the fact and nobody was ever told about it? >> I voted for you, Danielle, and I voted for you, Jim. So, I don't have a side. I just have a feeling of being >> I just want to be clear.
I do that every 194. I just I just want to ask a point of clarification. Um, you did discuss this RFP for privatization of EMS services at a
public meeting. Correct. And the RFP was posted publicly. Correct. So I don't really I really feels like a misccharacterization to say that this was somehow hidden from public. It followed the same standard
procedure that any other RFP or contract award and municipal level would follow. So this idea that it was in from the public mate. Now um this idea for caucus meetings
absolutely love and I love that you love it because I remember when you were running for office in 2001 I asked you about that and you said it was silly. No, we don't need to do that. My opponents are silly. He said the same thing about five commissioners at that time.
>> You know, Joe, it's great that you can recite what I said in 2001 2021 2021. >> So, I want to just address your issue that >> actually wasn't done. Okay, go ahead. >> I'm I'm thrilled about the caucus
meeting because frankly, we do need this out in the air, right? We do. Um we can't have a situation where one commissioner is lying and the other two commissioners with wise have truths selected. Um
so I think that is great. Uh >> I think that's you. >> So I wanted to talk about public engagement. Okay. Um posting an RFP. First off, there are no legal standards
for posting an RFP. Okay. this the posting it is not engagement of the public. Okay? And I'll just give you an example. When the burrow was going to go spend a significant amount of money to
build a no new police and fire building, okay, we held 10 meetings on that topic. We took people on tours of the existing buildings to help them understand the
condition of the buildings. We had we got them involved in the design of those buildings. Public engagement does not be mean legal notices are on the bulletin board. If you want to know what we're doing, make sure you stop by sometime
and read it off the bulletin board. That's not what it is from the I listen I found out I have an email from the mayor when I wrote to her and said in November saying hey it's great to see that this has already been decided and I haven't been in any of these emails and she's like nothing's decided okay and
then two weeks later it's put on the agenda without any discussion no talk okay so when and in that time from from when this started in July or August up until an award in November
There were there was a town board for there's town criers. There's these meetings not discussed. Okay. If you're going to engage the public in something like changing EMS service
the the bureau needs to do work. We need to work to get people involved. We send them postcards. We send them notes. We send out visits to say, "Hey, yo, listen. We're thinking about doing this. We want to hear like pay attention here.
We want to do something. That's public engagement. Okay. That's how a major decision has to get done. >> I never heard of RFP until tonight. I mean, maybe that's my ignorance, but I don't think you can expect everybody to
know. >> Hold on. Sorry. I'm sorry. you have the >> I I never heard of RFP and that's my ignorance I guess but I agree with Jim because when the fire thing was you know when that firehouse and the police I felt like I really knew
and that was nice that was good but I I don't think saying you're engaging the public by going to some small printed item somewhere I don't even know where to find them on the website I I just I just don't think that's right >> also I'm in the line of not having words
put into my mouth and I did not say that RFP was actively engaging. >> Oh, no. I'm not accusing you of that. I'm just saying I don't I never heard that acronym until today. >> It's an proposal. But yeah,
>> how known is that? I don't know. But >> that I understand. I mean sorry special notes >> Wayne Rossi 114 East um the first thing I want to say is people Maui comm comparing a one-year zero cost to the to
the burough um contract with his $15 million building um is apples at very large origins um he the the comparison is just not adequate. It is a it seems like this was
intended as a one-year stop gap more or less to figure out um and make sure that we have adequate ambulance services um while the commissioners actually are able to engage the public and figure out
a long-term solution. Uh whether that's virtual or not, I don't know. You know, I you know, I I actually I saw a virtual ambulance pulling into the the uh into the police building the other day. And
so I I was surprised that that it was happening because I had heard about the lawsuit. Um, but it it seems to me like there's there there's some kind of mountain out of a molehill being made
here because it is a one-year thing that does not cost the taxpayers one cent. It costs loss revenue. there is lost revenue because from what I understand it's because essentially our EMS is stretched to the
point where it can't function and it's been that way for three years and the the the previous boards that that Commissioner Mi was on did not address these issues that are ongoing. So I I think that it's
necessary to talk. I I think it's a shame that we're going through this process, this lawsuit process that's preventing us from essentially, like I said, my understanding is that this is basically a stop gap and that this
should be there while we find a long-term fix. Personally, I think, you know, while I love having a ambulance two blocks from my house, I I think that, you know, some kind of coordination might be necessarily the
the actual answer. So, to me, like I said, I I really feel like um this has gotten way bigger than it has because the former mayor chose to make a lawsuit for reasons that apparently
judges like his technicality. >> The judge didn't like technicality. Okay. >> Um we have an online question. Um, two comments from the same person online. Uh, first a comment that I think it's admirable that we are evaluating public contracts. It's long overdue. I am also
glad that the commissioners are finally having public caucus meetings because it's been decades that we have not been in compliance with the open public meetings act. Um, and then second, a question for Commissioner Mley. Why did he decide to sue the burrow making taxpayers pick up the tab for the
lawsuit rather than just filing an ethics complaint which wouldn't have cost the public anything? Is is there a name and address for this person? That's >> Kate Delaney. >> Kate Delaney. Okay. >> So So the um yes, I chose actually um
because there's a lawsuit doesn't mean that there's not an ethics complaint. Number one, and number two is because this decision, the the decision of the mayor to go against her professional advice is um is not the way Miss Burrow
should be doing business. And I understand that the argument is but this is for a really good reason. We believe this is for a good reason. So it's okay that it's got a it's there's a conflict. That's not the law. Okay. And if I'm
deciding to do something because I think it's a really good reason, but I'm going to be in conflict and give the a contract to my brother-in-law. That is not you are not allowed to do that. And it's not just me saying it. A
judge said it today. Okay? So that's why I raised it. I filed suit in order to stop that contract because it's not the way you should be doing business. >> Um so how should business be? >> Oh, Rebecca 916F.
Why have our EMS services been left in the lurch for so long? >> I don't believe they have and I'm more than happy. We have we have a plan. Listen, we had data, >> pardon, >> by their own testimonial and data. This feels like something that you should have been closely
>> people say. Now, you can talk to every department in the burrow and they need your people. >> This seems like I tell you what, when you're finished, you let me know. When you're finished, >> very important department to staff well of us. That's why you're so insulted.
So, why have they been neglected for so long? >> Well, we haven't been neglecting them for so long. But what we've been doing is working on plans and there's been a plan to add additional personnel into the department. The issue is the issue has always been why you don't just why
you don't expand and double the size of it. Okay, is there's this thing called cost, okay? And this whole notion that this is a nocost option is ludicrous because there's $450,000 of revenue that comes from the EMS
services that we received. This contract with Birchwood I think anyway I haven't seen any draft or anything of it but the contract was letting them keep that money. Okay. So that means money that the burrow received is going to someone
else and yet we are keeping our fire department at the exact same size. So the 450,000 in revenue that funded a part of the the uh salaries of that fire
department is gone. And the fire department was staying the same socks in most towns where EMS where this does happen and lately it's been getting reversed but where it does happen usually the fire unions are fighting the
burrow the town to stop it. Why? Because most every town says we have 17 guys that are run an ambulance run an ambulance and firefighter. If we're taking away your ambulance job, which you are telling is a big part of the job. Well, now that we're not going to
just keep 17 to fight fires, you've got less work. So, we're going from 17 to 11 and we're laying off. And where what you usually see are the buyer unions saying, "WHOA, WAIT A MINUTE. We're not let
we're not getting rid of jobs." Okay, so when you have gone through this process, I'm not going to go through this with we're not going to work this out with Jeffrey here, but it is, as I said in my comments earlier, I want us all to start working to solve this going forward. I
want us to be doing that at not just at public caucus meetings, but hopefully soon we can get started on it right away. I talked to them at Zach C and I know the mayor has talked to from time to time who's the mayor at Heights who's a good friend that we represent them uh
for full disclosure and um he's also a fire fire official in Cherry Hill and I asked him to give us some names of some folks that could come in as consultants to us to try to work on this fire EMS consultants that are independent consultants to come in and work on how
you sell I would think >> what's that I'm Sorry I I invoking your your friends and relations and clients at this moment. >> I am I'm invoking >> I really hope that you >> No, no, I'm not done. So you don't get
to interrupt me, Rebecca. Okay. So what we hope to do is to get what I think would be best is get someone involved, a consultant involved that can help guide us. I don't love the idea of privatizing it. I would much rather we do it
in-house with our own employees that we can control because when you bring in an outside third party, I don't care if it's Cooper, Birchwood, pick whoever, they are marketing and doing the what they can to cover other towns. They're looking to get that service wherever
they can. I would much rather we have a dedicated Collingswood EMS fire department. If it's going to change how it's organized, it's got to change the size, that's fine. we look at but it's got to be a process that not just all three of us are involved in but all of
us are involved >> a new one and then Eric 741 my question is how do you plan on making up that $450 that's that's more than the budget of the What's typical is that you don't see
actually if someone opened it, they would see it. they would see the emails that Jim has with the breakdown made with chief dors as to how that was going to be addressed because the other solutions proposed the plan that he's referring to was to hire two or three
more offices kind of speed that up. But those two or three cost is probably about $200,000 by the time you take care of Right. So, if you had a zero cost outside bidder that you didn't have to pay for $30,000 a
year medical billing, you're not you no longer have we had almost $150,000 in overtime because we're so understaffed that we afforded overtime if we were adequately staffed. That number would shrink by probably at least $100,000.
So you have you're saving me medical billing. You have $100,000. You're not spending in overtime. That's 130. And you would still, no matter what, have to pay the pay for two or three more staff, which if you talk with Chief Joyce, if
you were at the budget meeting with Chief Joyce, that was a solution that did not fundamentally address his concerns for the well-being of his staff and for the ability of his department to
answer ambulance and fire calls in a way that he felt safe for our residents. somewhere in the 200s, which is what hiring two or three more people would have cost anyways, but with better
service and a more robust staff to be able to address multiple fire calls and ambulance calls at the same time. And that is why this was a solution that I proposed multiple times to the B
administrator and to Commissioner Mley that regardless of the dollars and cents and getting the most attention, care, and staff to the matter as possible for the best price was
just didn't like it. And I don't know why. >> Well, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Because going I already said it going out to a third party. Sorry to exhaust you, but going out to the third party does not give you the same control over running. Virtual comes in here.
They're already under contract in Gloucester City. I think they still are. They can sign up in Camden. They can then run and cover ambulances from that station. Okay. When we have our own, they're a private company. They're trying to develop a profit. They're marketing that EMS wherever they can get
signed up. Okay. How they deploy that is up to them on their property. How I think that we should run it, how we should be in the fire the fire department is we should have the burrow should have control over that. Okay. We
will get we need to bring outside people in to talk about this. But having this having a third party, not just B, but anybody sitting on the border of Camden, we will we they will be covering calls there all the time. Okay. So, but
listen, I I really I don't want to fight about where it's been. I really really honestly don't discuss I want us to get like a fresh start. I think that we're I think the virtual contract is I think it's pretty much done after today. Uh and if not, it will be very shortly. But
I think that's done and we need to work with the chief. All of us work on this. All the meetings the mayor refers to, I'm not at any of those meetings. Not invited to those meetings. I get an email telling me what happened. Okay, not part of the discussion. Amy's not
part of the discussion part. She might have been some I don't know. I wasn't at venue. Okay. We all could have a discussion and talk about how to fix it. >> Just follow up on question. >> Followup venue.
>> Where would their home base be? >> Sorry, Carol. >> The third party. Where would their home base stay? At our fire department. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> But they answer calls.
>> Ryan 503 white. What bothers me about all of this and I I hear all the going back and forth here is the appearance of impropriy by our elected official. It's an appearance. I'm not accusing you of anything, but I voted for you and I
have a very jaestous eye right now for you and uh I have to say I think it that the citizen Jim Aly who's filed that lawsuit I supported and I think if it ends up costing the burrow money it's going to be because you didn't recuse
yourself from the vote. >> Thank you. Um, Edward Jerry and I was going to Stay up. awful because they were just working to get
more towns. And so we expanded from 11 to 17. Jeff was one of the ones we hired. Okay. And we went from 11 to 17 to bring EMS in fulltime and do it ourselves so that we knew if
we had an issue with response time, we would work on that issue with response time and we had control over it. That's why we did it. That's what the plan with the fire chief. That was the fire department. We were all everybody was on board and that's what we've done. And as time calls today, listen that I I want
to go over all this issue, but the issues with the increase in calls are a lot of people are calling 911, maybe you want to go to the doctor. Okay, there's a whole lot of whole lot of other reasons and maybe other ways we can try
to address this issue instead of going out and bringing an outside agency to do it and try to do it ourselves, try to do it with control. Um, so that's why I voted for the RFP. Okay,
>> last chance. Anyone else? >> Yes, sir. >> Can I change the subject? >> Please stop. >> Yes. >> Pocket bar. >> Yes. >> We're going to paint a mural on the wall there. Is that correct? Has the burrow rescended the I I was always under the
impression that there was an ordinance that murals were not allowed. >> Is there a burrow ordinance to that effect? >> I I think there's some limitations on it. I think it I think it's more and I don't know Gretch
it's more like if it's a sign >> if it's an advertisement for a business. >> But just know that when the burrow does stuff they're not governed by a law. >> Okay. zoning doesn't get in the way of any activity. >> The reason I ask is uh I'm a member of
the community garden >> and we have a big wall there. It's the welding company's building that faces our garden and it's still it's ugly sin for you know we got a beautiful place there and uh we
uh tried to get a a mural painted or you know to get the process going and the former commissioner advisor said that would not be permitted but maybe that was wrong but can we go ahead and >> so I'm gonna um let Lindsay Fergus give
a chime in here real quick. We are going to be um forming a creative arts committee, a public art committee. So the mural at the pocket park is just the first of what we hope will be many displays of public art, not just murals, but different mediums.
>> Um the wall that's the welding company. >> Stouts. >> Stouts. >> Stouts. A wonderful company even though you don't like the wall. >> They've done I've done work with them. They're great people. And they also I talked to them one time. and they said whatever we want to do with the wall is fine with that.
>> Awesome. They put you on. >> We have permission just like I'm sure you have programs that wall. Yeah, we're going to be identifying some sites so we can put that as like a possibility. >> Be a process by which you as a group um
as the in community gardens have a wall >> hopefully soon, >> right? >> And and there'll be guidelines, right? Like make sure that you have the approval of the owner of the building and then you know budgetary concerns. How you going to get a paid board? We want to make sure that once it's up, it's, you know, stays up. It's not
flaking and what kind of materials we are using and and this committee will be overseeing that process. And it's something that's been formed alongside with Civic Association. It's be >> it's be run through the bid, the business improvement district, which is what other places like Philly and
Baltimore that have really robust mural operations have been doing. So, we're trying to follow use best practices uh so that we can have some pretty artwork. >> Thanks. You can change it again. All right. >> I So,
um was it 23 or 24? We passed the shade tree ordinance that requires permits to take down trees. I pay that permit fee. I'm just wondering how that is going where that money is going to is that being
enforced. Is that really working that that process? Uh I do know that our zoning officer has had more workload because of the applications for I'm trying to see if I if there's a sub item on her report that has the date tree
numbers on it. >> And does that money go into the general fund or where does that money go? Does it go to planting trees? >> Cassandra, you know where it goes. >> I believe it's hard to build a tree. >> Goes into a tree trust.
>> Generally, yes. >> Yeah. It has to be used. >> Exactly. Oh, and I can say that for the monthly report of December, there were zero tree removal permits, but it's also a cold month. Should be bringing down >> things. Something's a little frozen right now.
>> Yeah. >> I'm just wondering what the compliance on it is to whether there's any enforcement. >> Well, as as with other things, you know, a lot of code enforcement is, you know, being made aware and there are ways to report report that. So that's, you know,
again, that's kind of on our our citizens, our neighbors to to enforce that because we don't have the manpower to be going out and and checking on on things like that one by one. Last one though. Last one. Um
the the plan to build housing out here in the the lot when the public park building is made. Is there anything big planned back here that that that all fell through? Is there any thinking going on about that that area
>> beyond the fact that in 2027 we hope to create a new master plan go out or a new master plan for the burough? Yeah. Um and that that would be a space that we absolutely would like to engage professionals to give a vision for what
a space that you know first of all the burough owns and second of all so central and right off of uh you know the main business corridor. So that would be an area to be looked at to see what >> in in the preparation of a master plan is there are there public meetings that
are held? >> So you're be you know what you're beating me to it. Um, we're going to have a steering committee that'll be working the full year of 2026. Um, we don't know how many members. We're going to have um an open application for people who want to be on the steering
committee. We have some retired planners in town, different professionals who have expertise that uh I think would be willing to lend their time to the steering committee because part of an RFP is what we've heard back from
planning professionals um and the groups that would respond and then execute and create a master plan is that depending on how much meat is in the RFP. So, like the RFP pretty much lays out all the things that you want to see in your
proposal. We want a chapter on um affordable housing in our master plan. We want a chapter on um walkability and bike lanes. We want a chapter on um a tree study, a shade tree commission. I mean,
and the more information that is in your RFP about your population, the more census data, the more uh public communications that have happened, because we've had these public meetings, and we found that this is what people are asking for time and time again. This is what they asked for 10 years ago.
Here are the results of the RefM plan, for example. And you and the more information that you can provide and then you can target where the community is right now can have uh one of these firms when they reply and they submit to be like here please choose us to do the
program. They can flesh out what they can offer and what vision they have for creating that plan. And it'll be much hardier and potentially cost less because the leg work of having the the community or like the community feedback
and the nights where you come and you put the dots and you pick what you like. If we can do a lot of that ourselves through the steering committee before it's and that's through volunteers as opposed to hiring a firm to come in and ask our community what they think. We can probably ask the committee what we
what they think ourselves um and organize that data. So that's kind of I don't know that went off the rails there, but that's >> and anyone >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, I I was just gonna comment since
it's starting public uh comment. Um my name is Caitlyn Hardy Nora. I'm a former Collinswood resident. Um, I practice law exclusively and doing pretty much all local, municipal, um, and government
work. This is what I do every day of the week. Um, I want the community to have faith in me. I'm looking forward to coming back and working in Collinswood and working with all the commissioners. Um, I'm going to stick around after the meeting if anybody wants to come and ask me questions, but again, I'm looking
forward to working with everybody here. We'll be >> journ everybody. Stay warm. >> Happy new year. >> Really? And